Deep Sea Shark Discovery: Ivy Barrymore and David Ebert Train the Next Generation in Honduras

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Welcome back to this bonus episode of the

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Beyond Jaws podcast.

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We're going to be talking to Ivy

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Bearmorf, who's part of the Mar Alliance,

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who recently

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collaborated with our very own Dr.

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David Ebert to do a workshop on shark

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identification of DC sharks.

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We're going to talk about

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that on today's episode of the,

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of the Beyond Jaws podcast, not the How

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to Protect the Ocean podcast,

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the Beyond Jaws podcast, which is about

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to say, let's start the show. Hey,

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everybody. Welcome back to another

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exciting episode of

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the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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I am your cohost, Andrew Lewin here with

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my cohost, Dr. David Ebert. And Dave,

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this is kind of a special show.

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Last show, you were the focus of the

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show. Now you're like the half focus of

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the show because you

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did a workshop with Ivy.

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And we're going to be talking a lot about

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that workshop. So kind of set the scene

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for us in terms of what people should

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know about this workshop.

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Well, we do these, I do these workshops.

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I've been doing these for a long time,

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for decades, but the, and Ivy and I have

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been talking about this

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one for about a decade.

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And it's coincidentally, it just happened

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to be after I came off this month long

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trip to Madagascar. But, but

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anyway, it was, yeah, it does.

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But, but you know, the, they're really

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important that run these identification

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workshops like I do, because it really

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helps lay the, the foundation for, you

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know, countries, if they want to develop,

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you know, international plans of action

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for sharks and rays in their country.

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You're really, it's like, I always look

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at like building a building. You got to

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lay the foundation first. And the

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foundation is what species do you have

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there? And, and be able to train people

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in country to identify stuff has been, is

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really where it all starts.

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And because I have the expertise,

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expertise, I've been doing this for a

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long time. I go to a lot of these

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countries, meet a lot of the young

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people, get the network with them and

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train them on, on how to do basic

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identification of sharks and rays.

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And so really, and it's something that we

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talk about in the, in the, we'll talk

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about in the episode is like, it has an

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impact because young people can do

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something, develop checklists and stuff.

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And it can have an immediate impact right

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away as far as helping, helping develop

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conservation and

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fishery management policy.

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Well, I think it's, I think it's really

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important too, because as you mentioned

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in a number of a number of different

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episodes that we've mentioned is people

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don't know a lot about sharks in their,

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in their own countries.

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And it's just because they just haven't

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had the training or they haven't had the

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need for it at that point. And then when

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you are able to do these workshops and

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you're able to share it with, you know,

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just the skills and experience that you

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need to go through something like this to

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be able to identify in the future.

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Look, we probably, and a lot of some of

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these, some of these people are, are

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students that are looking, looking to do

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marine biology of some sort,

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probably get into shark biology.

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You might be helping to take a career off

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to, you know, like basically looking at a

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career to take off in deep sea sharks

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within Honduras in this

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country, which I think is amazing.

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So I'm looking forward to getting to the

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interview. So here's the interview with

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Ivy Behrmer from our Alliance talking

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about the deep sea shark

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identification workshop.

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We enjoy the interview and we'll talk to

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you after. Hey, Ivy, welcome back to the

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Beyond Jaws podcast. Are you

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ready to talk about sharks?

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I'm always ready to talk about great to

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be here. Welcome. Welcome to the Beyond

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Jaws podcast. We have the fabulous Dr.

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Ivy Merrimore back on for

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a bonus episode here today.

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I've is your might recall was on episode

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77 last year in September of 2024, where

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she talked about her journeys as shark

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researcher and conservationist and Ivy

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just to refresh your memory has a PhD

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from University of Exeter, as well as an

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MSC from the University of Florida and a

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BSC from University of Florida State.

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She's the science coordinator for Mar

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Alliance, which is an organization

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founded by our friend Rachel Graham, who

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also appeared on the show back in way

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back on episode 17 in March of 2022.

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And Ivy here today to talk about a

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workshop that she organized. It took

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place the week of October 20th in

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Honduras. And yours truly is also

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involved in that as well.

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So but she'll talk about we'll talk about

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how the importance of these workshops are

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for teaching people how to identify

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stuff. And Ivy, welcome back to the show.

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Thanks so much. And

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thanks for having me back.

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Great. So why don't you tell us about

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what's sort of the genesis of the

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workshop and everything?

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Well, this is something that I've been

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thinking about for a long time. And you

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and I have been talking about this for a

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long time, since I kind of first sent you

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a picture of a deep sea shark. And I

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think it's been about 10 years ago, which

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I think happens to you quite often.

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But I was lucky this year to get a

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fellowship from the Ross Robertson

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Research Award for field studies on

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Neotropical deep reef fishes

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very long title on that one.

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And as part of that fellowship, I

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included some funds for a regional

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taxonomy workshop because because of the

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conversations that we've had and I've had

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with other people around the world on

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some of these species that we're catching

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that we just kind of keep bumping up

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against and not quite being able to

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really nail down what we've got.

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And kind of realizing that this is a very

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understudied region and there's very few

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opportunities for local researchers to

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actually see any of these species that

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exist in their backyard.

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So we thought it would be just a really

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great opportunity to kind of raise

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awareness of what we have here.

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But then also try to maybe start to put a

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little bit of a pin in the species that

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we've got because we're still kind of

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back where I started on identifying some

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of these deep water species, shark

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species that we've been catching in

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Belize and here in Honduras as well.

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So we're still kind of at the bottom of the line. And so we've
got a lot of people that are really excited about the

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African Sea, you know, you get people

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that are just excited about it because

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Honduras doesn't like a lot of the

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Central American countries doesn't really

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have a long history of shark research in

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the country and they have a fair.

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You have to give me the number, but it's

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like a reasonable coastline in the

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Caribbean, but they're very small

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coastline in the Pacific. Correct. So

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it's mostly actions going to

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be more in the Caribbean side.

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On the

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downside also, Honduras actually has more

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water than land. The economic exclusive

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zone, I could give you the exact number,

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but it is actually more than the square

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kilometers for the land

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that is within the country.

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And so it's a huge territory and very

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little bit, little of it has been

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explored even with no bathymetry maps

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aren't very good. And it's it encompasses

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part of the Cayman Trench as well. So,

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you know, there's just no

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telling what's out there. Yeah.

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Now, now when you start, so can you been

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in Honduras now for what have been been

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about close to 10 years you've been in

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Honduras now? I've been in Honduras for

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six years and before that I was in Belize

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for about about five or six years.

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Okay. Okay. So how do you, you know, you

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go here, you're so you're operating in a

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country where obviously you're you're

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you're expert in, in Kendrick things and

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sharks and rays, but you're working in a

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country. It doesn't have like a history

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or tradition of people doing that.

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How do you go? How'd you go about finding

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the participants for

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the for the workshop?

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Well, fortunately, our country

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coordinator, Analucia Lopez is, is well

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connected. Our research officer, so beta

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Nunez is also she we hosted the workshop

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in Tello, which is where she's based. I'm

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in the Bay Islands. I'm in Roa 10. So I'm

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we're all in, and I'll

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see as in the capital city.

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So we're all spread out. We don't

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actually have a, you know, an office

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together. So we just put together our

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resources. So beta's work with a lot of

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different organizations. Analucia knows a

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lot of people that are at the

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universities. So we knew that we wanted

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to invite sort of a broad range of

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people, not just, not just the scientists

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and not just managers, but we also wanted

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to extend the invitation to, to lay

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people, shark enthusiasts who might get

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something out of this just to have a

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more broad understanding, but also

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enthusiasm. It is great, you know,

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scientists were all great and managers

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and everything, but you know, that's it's

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very brass tacks. But having people who

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students we had some, we had both

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university students and a young man who

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is 13 years old. So he was the high

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school student who actually participated

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in the entire workshop. And so getting

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that kind of enthusiasm and also people who don't want to be in the workshop.

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So people who don't work in the end, who

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aren't necessarily professional

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scientists have a totally different

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perspective on conservation and biology.

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And often, I think what happens when you

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talk to people who aren't kind of in your

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world, you get questions and perspectives

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that you don't necessarily get otherwise.

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And so it's really nice to be able to

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speak to other people who have a totally

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different perspective who might then, you

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know, like open up different ideas and, you know,

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open up different ideas and other ways of

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looking at questions.

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And you had people from the diving

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community, for example,

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also involved in the thing.

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Yeah, exactly. And they were great

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because we did a field trip. We did go

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out and try to catch some of the these,

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the deep sea sharks, the gulpers sharks

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that are that occur near Tella.

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Unfortunately, we didn't have any luck.

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01:09:44,750 --> 01:09:45,958
We were only out for about three hours.

268
01:09:45,958 --> 01:09:48,333
And if you've ever been sharking or

269
01:09:48,333 --> 01:09:49,708
especially for deep sea, you know, that

270
01:09:49,708 --> 01:09:50,875
that's not really very much time.

271
01:09:50,916 --> 01:09:54,041
Yeah, but they they supported us with the

272
01:09:54,041 --> 01:09:55,916
we were able to go out with the dive

273
01:09:55,916 --> 01:09:59,125
company on their boats. And, you know,

274
01:09:59,125 --> 01:10:00,583
they're they love sharks to they want to

275
01:10:00,583 --> 01:10:02,083
see sharks. That's something that's,

276
01:10:02,083 --> 01:10:04,125
that's super exciting. They want when

277
01:10:04,125 --> 01:10:06,000
they go diving, they, they want to see

278
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,250
sharks. And so having them there to talk

279
01:10:09,250 --> 01:10:10,000
to us and be able to

280
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:11,791
basically have access to people.

281
01:10:11,958 --> 01:10:13,833
I think a lot of people have an idea that

282
01:10:13,833 --> 01:10:15,416
scientists are kind of stuffy and

283
01:10:15,416 --> 01:10:17,916
unapproachable. But the fact that, you

284
01:10:17,916 --> 01:10:19,541
know, we were there just chatting and

285
01:10:19,541 --> 01:10:21,041
they could they, you know, to all take

286
01:10:21,041 --> 01:10:22,375
out their phones and we're like, you

287
01:10:22,375 --> 01:10:23,583
know, this is where we see this one.

288
01:10:23,583 --> 01:10:25,458
And this is where we see this one. What

289
01:10:25,458 --> 01:10:26,750
do you think this one is, you know, being

290
01:10:26,750 --> 01:10:28,208
able to have those kinds of

291
01:10:28,208 --> 01:10:30,583
conversations, I think it really changes

292
01:10:30,583 --> 01:10:34,250
people's minds about what science is and

293
01:10:34,250 --> 01:10:36,750
how approachable and it also makes it

294
01:10:36,750 --> 01:10:40,250
things like citizen science and increases

295
01:10:40,250 --> 01:10:40,916
our ability to think about science.

296
01:10:40,916 --> 01:10:41,750
And so we're really excited to have our

297
01:10:41,750 --> 01:10:43,875
ability to talk with citizen scientists

298
01:10:43,875 --> 01:10:45,291
and to get more information that we

299
01:10:45,291 --> 01:10:46,666
wouldn't necessarily get otherwise.

300
01:10:48,208 --> 01:10:50,166
Now, with with with the people there, so

301
01:10:50,166 --> 01:10:51,333
you got you had to quite like so you

302
01:10:51,333 --> 01:10:53,000
mentioned you had like a 13 year old high

303
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:54,375
school student there, which was pretty

304
01:10:54,375 --> 01:10:55,750
amazing. He was a pretty enthusiastic

305
01:10:55,750 --> 01:10:57,875
young guy. And that's kind of really the

306
01:10:57,875 --> 01:10:58,875
future for Honduras.

307
01:10:59,458 --> 01:11:01,000
Even though all even though pretty much

308
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:02,333
like everybody else you had there was

309
01:11:02,333 --> 01:11:03,708
pretty much under 30 years old, which

310
01:11:03,708 --> 01:11:05,458
really makes you feel old.

311
01:11:09,958 --> 01:11:13,833
I do it. Yes. Yes. Go have some fun. I

312
01:11:13,833 --> 01:11:16,000
like, no, not me, man. I'm like, I got to

313
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:16,791
get up and work tomorrow.

314
01:11:17,083 --> 01:11:20,125
Yeah. So that was really good.

315
01:11:20,708 --> 01:11:22,000
And it was interesting talking to a lot

316
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:23,500
of them because they seem pretty

317
01:11:23,500 --> 01:11:25,333
enthusiastic. I think that really came

318
01:11:25,333 --> 01:11:27,958
up, came came came out when we were doing

319
01:11:27,958 --> 01:11:30,208
some of the necropsies doing some of the

320
01:11:30,208 --> 01:11:31,958
dissections and some of the different

321
01:11:31,958 --> 01:11:35,333
sharks that you saved and collected over

322
01:11:35,333 --> 01:11:35,916
the last recent few months.

323
01:11:35,958 --> 01:11:38,375
And just seeing how excited they were to

324
01:11:38,375 --> 01:11:39,666
actually look at these things.

325
01:11:40,708 --> 01:11:42,833
I yeah, me too. I was, you know, you

326
01:11:42,833 --> 01:11:44,625
never really know how people are going to

327
01:11:44,625 --> 01:11:47,583
react in a dissection. And, you know,

328
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:49,458
they're sharks, but, you know, they've

329
01:11:49,458 --> 01:11:50,500
been in a freezer for a little while.

330
01:11:50,500 --> 01:11:52,666
They're a little smelly, you know, and

331
01:11:52,666 --> 01:11:55,375
when they've got these sharks, the deep

332
01:11:55,375 --> 01:11:56,500
sea sharks, also, they

333
01:11:56,500 --> 01:11:56,916
have these very oily livers.

334
01:11:56,958 --> 01:12:00,625
And so there's a lot of, you know, it's

335
01:12:00,625 --> 01:12:02,333
just, you have to really get your hands

336
01:12:02,333 --> 01:12:03,791
dirty, even with gloves, you have to kind

337
01:12:03,791 --> 01:12:05,000
of just get in there. And

338
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:06,500
boy, did they get in there.

339
01:12:08,250 --> 01:12:09,916
Yeah, there was a lot of poking and

340
01:12:09,916 --> 01:12:11,291
prodding. One of those university

341
01:12:11,291 --> 01:12:13,541
students dissected the heart and wanted

342
01:12:13,541 --> 01:12:15,916
to keep, you know, one of this, because

343
01:12:15,916 --> 01:12:17,958
it was such a fascinating thing for her.

344
01:12:17,958 --> 01:12:19,458
So like, ask if she could keep the heart.

345
01:12:19,916 --> 01:12:20,916
Yeah, you can keep the heart.

346
01:12:20,916 --> 01:12:23,916
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know,

347
01:12:24,083 --> 01:12:27,250
and being able to be, being able to show

348
01:12:27,250 --> 01:12:30,125
in, you know, in person, you know, really

349
01:12:30,125 --> 01:12:32,833
on a slide or textbook about the

350
01:12:32,833 --> 01:12:35,083
different modes of reproduction is one

351
01:12:35,083 --> 01:12:37,125
thing, but actually having like an embryo

352
01:12:37,125 --> 01:12:39,250
of sharks that can actually hold in your

353
01:12:39,250 --> 01:12:41,083
hand is something that is, I think most

354
01:12:41,083 --> 01:12:42,500
people don't get to experience.

355
01:12:43,375 --> 01:12:43,916
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

356
01:12:43,958 --> 01:12:50,458
Yeah. I think it was kind of fun the

357
01:12:50,458 --> 01:12:52,333
first day and we had, they had to

358
01:12:52,333 --> 01:12:55,875
identify the sharks there by species. And

359
01:12:55,875 --> 01:12:57,333
with a couple of gulper sharks, we were

360
01:12:57,333 --> 01:12:59,583
having like, they came with a couple of

361
01:12:59,583 --> 01:13:01,541
different species that you and I pretty

362
01:13:01,541 --> 01:13:03,291
much thought that was correct, what they

363
01:13:03,291 --> 01:13:05,833
came up with. And then, of course, the

364
01:13:05,833 --> 01:13:07,083
next day, we started going through and

365
01:13:07,083 --> 01:13:07,916
realized like, uh-oh, there's going to be a problem there.

366
01:13:07,916 --> 01:13:13,250
Oh, it goes to show the challenging part

367
01:13:13,250 --> 01:13:15,583
of identifying sharks, right? That's,

368
01:13:15,583 --> 01:13:17,583
that's. Yeah. Yeah. And especially these

369
01:13:17,583 --> 01:13:19,041
species, the gulper sharks, which have

370
01:13:19,041 --> 01:13:23,500
been hounding me. Yeah. It's a, it's, I

371
01:13:23,500 --> 01:13:25,250
mean, they gave the species of gulper

372
01:13:25,250 --> 01:13:26,833
sharks were one of the hardest groups

373
01:13:26,833 --> 01:13:29,083
taxonomically to identify. Believe me,

374
01:13:29,083 --> 01:13:30,416
I've been working on this with Will White

375
01:13:30,416 --> 01:13:32,625
for now going on 20 years, trying to sort

376
01:13:32,625 --> 01:13:35,708
them out. And I was pretty convinced we

377
01:13:35,708 --> 01:13:37,208
had like at least two

378
01:13:37,208 --> 01:13:37,916
different species of gulper sharks.

379
01:13:37,916 --> 01:13:38,291
And I think we had two species there, but

380
01:13:38,291 --> 01:13:40,416
after we did the dissection, I know we

381
01:13:40,416 --> 01:13:42,083
may still have two species there, but

382
01:13:42,083 --> 01:13:44,708
sure. I kind of threw a curve ball at us

383
01:13:44,708 --> 01:13:46,375
that they're both pregnant. We won with

384
01:13:46,375 --> 01:13:47,541
one. I was sure it was going to be

385
01:13:47,541 --> 01:13:49,041
immature. It's going to be much larger

386
01:13:49,041 --> 01:13:52,333
granular, centropolis granulosis species

387
01:13:52,333 --> 01:13:54,208
and the common gulper shark and it was

388
01:13:54,208 --> 01:13:55,583
like, uh, this thing shouldn't be

389
01:13:55,583 --> 01:13:58,541
pregnant at this size here. So, um, and

390
01:13:58,541 --> 01:14:00,791
the other one that was small and should

391
01:14:00,791 --> 01:14:02,708
have been mature was not correct.

392
01:14:03,125 --> 01:14:05,416
Exactly. And all, all three of them look

393
01:14:05,416 --> 01:14:05,916
different. And I know with gulper sharks, they changed.

394
01:14:05,916 --> 01:14:09,666
And you know, this too, they, they, with

395
01:14:09,666 --> 01:14:11,541
they grow, they change. And so like, if

396
01:14:11,541 --> 01:14:12,833
you look at a small one and intermediate

397
01:14:12,833 --> 01:14:15,250
size and a large one, they could be very

398
01:14:15,250 --> 01:14:18,291
different looking and, um, and all three

399
01:14:18,291 --> 01:14:19,583
of the ones you had were all very

400
01:14:19,583 --> 01:14:21,500
different looking, but two, we kind of

401
01:14:21,500 --> 01:14:23,166
thought might be the same species and

402
01:14:23,166 --> 01:14:25,041
they turned out to be internally like

403
01:14:25,041 --> 01:14:27,000
wildly different. And the one we were

404
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:28,291
convinced was definitely something

405
01:14:28,291 --> 01:14:29,750
different. That turned out to be similar

406
01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:32,041
to one of the other two, the two pregnant

407
01:14:32,041 --> 01:14:33,500
was one of the two pregnant ones we

408
01:14:33,500 --> 01:14:33,916
found. Yeah, we didn't go, we didn't go too far.

409
01:14:33,916 --> 01:14:38,583
Yeah, we didn't go easy on them. No, they

410
01:14:38,583 --> 01:14:40,791
got thrown into the, do we definitely

411
01:14:40,791 --> 01:14:42,958
through some, through some loops at them?

412
01:14:43,250 --> 01:14:45,000
Uh, and the big, because it is, it's

413
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:46,750
something, you know, we, we had a day of,

414
01:14:46,750 --> 01:14:48,708
of, uh, sort of the morning, like, well,

415
01:14:48,708 --> 01:14:51,125
here's the big picture. Now here's the

416
01:14:51,125 --> 01:14:52,875
hardest species that you could possibly

417
01:14:52,875 --> 01:14:55,708
try to identify. Yeah. Have at it. What

418
01:14:55,708 --> 01:14:58,041
do you think? Yeah. Well, how did they,

419
01:14:58,041 --> 01:14:59,625
how did like the, the participants? Cause

420
01:14:59,625 --> 01:15:00,791
like the participants, like you said,

421
01:15:00,791 --> 01:15:02,791
they're not scientists. How did they take

422
01:15:02,791 --> 01:15:03,916
on that challenge? Was it like,

423
01:15:03,916 --> 01:15:05,166
did they just like, well, I have no idea

424
01:15:05,166 --> 01:15:06,166
where I'm going to do, do they just kind

425
01:15:06,166 --> 01:15:07,666
of give up or do they actually like give

426
01:15:07,666 --> 01:15:10,250
it a shot? Good shot. Well, I think more

427
01:15:10,250 --> 01:15:12,541
than half of them were scientists that

428
01:15:12,541 --> 01:15:14,833
participated or scientists and training

429
01:15:14,833 --> 01:15:17,083
students. Right. And so they have the,

430
01:15:17,083 --> 01:15:19,291
you know, the fundamentals down, but Dave

431
01:15:19,291 --> 01:15:21,083
did an amazing presentation in the

432
01:15:21,083 --> 01:15:22,666
morning that's, that sort of went down,

433
01:15:22,666 --> 01:15:25,416
breaking down. How do you, you know, if

434
01:15:25,416 --> 01:15:28,250
you have a shark, what, where do you

435
01:15:28,250 --> 01:15:30,833
start? You know, doesn't have spines.

436
01:15:30,833 --> 01:15:32,166
What's the shape of the tail? Does it

437
01:15:32,166 --> 01:15:33,833
have this, you know, what are the

438
01:15:33,916 --> 01:15:35,125
teeth look like? What are the dermal

439
01:15:35,125 --> 01:15:37,458
denticles? So going big and then kind of

440
01:15:37,458 --> 01:15:41,041
working down to the smaller things. So we

441
01:15:41,041 --> 01:15:42,583
kind of, we told them we didn't really

442
01:15:42,583 --> 01:15:44,250
expect them to necessarily get down to

443
01:15:44,250 --> 01:15:46,791
the species, but we wanted to have them

444
01:15:46,791 --> 01:15:48,083
at least get down where they could

445
01:15:48,083 --> 01:15:50,708
identify them to as low as they possibly

446
01:15:50,708 --> 01:15:52,083
could. So if they could get to genus,

447
01:15:52,083 --> 01:15:53,625
that's great. If they could get to the

448
01:15:53,625 --> 01:15:54,916
family, that would, you know, even

449
01:15:54,916 --> 01:15:56,500
better. And so, you know, they all had

450
01:15:56,500 --> 01:15:58,583
their books and we had printouts and they

451
01:15:58,583 --> 01:16:00,291
were all comparing notes and we had them

452
01:16:00,291 --> 01:16:02,041
team up like who, who thinks it's this

453
01:16:02,041 --> 01:16:03,916
and who thinks it that and sort of

454
01:16:03,958 --> 01:16:07,375
split up along teams that way. So yeah,

455
01:16:08,166 --> 01:16:10,333
and they, and really, they got really got

456
01:16:10,333 --> 01:16:14,166
into, got into it and paired up in teams

457
01:16:14,166 --> 01:16:15,958
and, you know, really, like did compare

458
01:16:15,958 --> 01:16:17,125
notes and like, what do you think this

459
01:16:17,125 --> 01:16:19,500
one might move things around and, you

460
01:16:19,500 --> 01:16:22,208
know, poking and broading. So yeah, it

461
01:16:22,208 --> 01:16:24,666
was a really great, we, it was a very

462
01:16:24,666 --> 01:16:28,333
nice transition from sort of a, there's

463
01:16:28,333 --> 01:16:29,125
my motorcycle again.

464
01:16:29,166 --> 01:16:34,708
From a classroom, a classroom setting to

465
01:16:34,708 --> 01:16:38,875
a field slash laboratory setting, you

466
01:16:38,875 --> 01:16:40,833
know, a nice transition so that no, it

467
01:16:40,833 --> 01:16:42,875
wasn't, it never got dull, I think, I

468
01:16:42,875 --> 01:16:44,583
think it was really, really fun workshop.

469
01:16:44,583 --> 01:16:47,458
No, yeah, I was thinking, just, just for

470
01:16:47,458 --> 01:16:48,541
people know, like, you know, obviously

471
01:16:48,541 --> 01:16:50,291
the people are Honduras is a Spanish

472
01:16:50,291 --> 01:16:52,916
speaking country. And so we had, so we

473
01:16:52,916 --> 01:16:55,916
basically had a translator, Gloria was

474
01:16:55,916 --> 01:16:57,791
doing the translation. And

475
01:16:57,791 --> 01:16:58,625
I'm sorry, what was Gloria?

476
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,375
I forgot your last name. So many names,

477
01:17:06,375 --> 01:17:07,833
like Ali's name, his name's bunk around

478
01:17:07,833 --> 01:17:10,250
my head, but anyway, but they, but he did

479
01:17:10,250 --> 01:17:12,708
an excellent job translating. And so it

480
01:17:12,708 --> 01:17:14,166
wasn't, so I don't think anybody really

481
01:17:14,166 --> 01:17:17,166
had any issues with the language barrier,

482
01:17:17,416 --> 01:17:18,791
you know, and I've done, certainly done

483
01:17:18,791 --> 01:17:20,041
translations before.

484
01:17:20,625 --> 01:17:22,916
And, you know, I've done in Swahili and

485
01:17:22,916 --> 01:17:24,166
Arabic, if you can get through the

486
01:17:24,166 --> 01:17:25,833
Chinese, actually, I've done Chinese too.

487
01:17:26,125 --> 01:17:27,375
So you get through those Spanish is

488
01:17:27,375 --> 01:17:31,625
pretty easy. So, so it's pretty good.

489
01:17:31,625 --> 01:17:34,166
And I think it did help also Gloria is a

490
01:17:34,166 --> 01:17:35,916
biologist, her, she's got a, her

491
01:17:35,916 --> 01:17:37,458
background or her bachelor's degree in

492
01:17:37,458 --> 01:17:38,916
biology. So it does help, I think a

493
01:17:38,916 --> 01:17:40,916
little bit to have that, you know, more

494
01:17:40,916 --> 01:17:41,291
of a working knowledge

495
01:17:41,291 --> 01:17:43,166
of the scientific terms.

496
01:17:43,416 --> 01:17:43,875
Oh, yeah.

497
01:17:43,875 --> 01:17:47,875
So having that and I did my best to kind

498
01:17:47,875 --> 01:17:49,666
of keep those, keep things in Spanish as

499
01:17:49,666 --> 01:17:50,791
well. But it is always a

500
01:17:50,791 --> 01:17:52,166
challenge going back and forth.

501
01:17:52,666 --> 01:17:53,166
Because it does

502
01:17:53,166 --> 01:17:54,541
double, it doubles your time.

503
01:17:55,166 --> 01:17:55,375
Yeah.

504
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:55,958
Yeah.

505
01:17:56,583 --> 01:17:57,125
No, she does.

506
01:17:58,125 --> 01:17:59,375
Yeah. But no, I mean, a lot of the good

507
01:17:59,375 --> 01:18:00,708
questions, you know, we had during the

508
01:18:00,708 --> 01:18:01,791
breaks is like, when you get the best

509
01:18:01,791 --> 01:18:03,250
stuff, a lot of interactions, people

510
01:18:03,250 --> 01:18:04,916
talking to you asking you questions about

511
01:18:04,916 --> 01:18:07,916
different things and, and kind of, you

512
01:18:07,916 --> 01:18:08,833
know, raising some issues.

513
01:18:08,833 --> 01:18:10,500
Like, I know I talked, we talked a lot

514
01:18:10,500 --> 01:18:13,666
about Honduras, they have a, hopefully

515
01:18:13,666 --> 01:18:14,791
they'll eventually work towards like a

516
01:18:14,791 --> 01:18:16,958
national plan of action. But a lot of,

517
01:18:16,958 --> 01:18:18,083
but with the young people there are

518
01:18:18,083 --> 01:18:18,583
thinking it could have

519
01:18:18,583 --> 01:18:19,750
an impact is developing.

520
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:38,375
Yeah.

521
01:18:38,375 --> 01:18:40,000
Yeah.

522
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:46,958
Yeah, if you're talking about the

523
01:18:47,791 --> 01:18:49,541
policy right now with Uncondrictions,

524
01:18:49,541 --> 01:18:50,750
sharks raised in the...

525
01:18:51,750 --> 01:18:54,833
So on the books, Honduras is actually a

526
01:18:54,833 --> 01:18:55,833
shark sanctuary. It's

527
01:18:55,833 --> 01:18:57,625
illegal to catch and land

528
01:18:57,708 --> 01:19:01,250
sharks raised. There's no legislation on

529
01:19:01,250 --> 01:19:03,958
those. But yeah, so on paper, the

530
01:19:05,875 --> 01:19:09,500
Honduras does not have any trade. So

531
01:19:09,500 --> 01:19:10,125
there shouldn't be

532
01:19:10,125 --> 01:19:12,500
any trade of sharks. But

533
01:19:13,166 --> 01:19:15,000
we know there's also there was amendment

534
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,208
to the law. So the ban

535
01:19:17,208 --> 01:19:19,041
was passed in 2011. In 2016,

536
01:19:19,375 --> 01:19:21,083
it was amended to allow for incidental

537
01:19:21,083 --> 01:19:22,916
capture. But the

538
01:19:22,916 --> 01:19:25,291
incidental capture wasn't

539
01:19:25,291 --> 01:19:28,083
very well defined. And it's meant to be

540
01:19:28,083 --> 01:19:28,958
just in kind of one

541
01:19:28,958 --> 01:19:30,625
region of the country. And

542
01:19:31,958 --> 01:19:34,416
and it wasn't very well publicized. So

543
01:19:34,416 --> 01:19:36,750
there's just and there's

544
01:19:36,750 --> 01:19:37,958
not and there are there's

545
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:39,541
enforcement in some areas, but for the

546
01:19:39,541 --> 01:19:43,541
most part, it's it's it's kind of a

547
01:19:43,541 --> 01:19:44,083
little bit of a paper

548
01:19:44,125 --> 01:19:47,958
park. And so because of that, because

549
01:19:47,958 --> 01:19:49,000
there is national

550
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,833
legislation against landing and keeping

551
01:19:51,833 --> 01:19:56,041
sharks, there's no government record of

552
01:19:56,041 --> 01:19:58,291
landings because, you know,

553
01:19:58,291 --> 01:19:59,291
technically, it doesn't happen.

554
01:19:59,791 --> 01:20:01,708
So that's one of the things that is

555
01:20:01,708 --> 01:20:05,500
important and that we were emphasizing to

556
01:20:05,500 --> 01:20:06,583
the attendees is that

557
01:20:06,625 --> 01:20:08,750
that, you know, that's kind of the role

558
01:20:08,750 --> 01:20:10,250
that we have as as an

559
01:20:10,250 --> 01:20:12,625
NGO is to help support

560
01:20:13,625 --> 01:20:15,708
where there's not the capacity to do

561
01:20:15,708 --> 01:20:17,041
these landings or these

562
01:20:17,041 --> 01:20:17,875
monitoring because there

563
01:20:18,125 --> 01:20:20,500
technically are no landings and we're not

564
01:20:20,500 --> 01:20:23,208
able to measure that. We can

565
01:20:23,208 --> 01:20:24,125
go out and do these fishery

566
01:20:24,125 --> 01:20:26,166
independent surveys to get an idea of

567
01:20:26,166 --> 01:20:27,583
what the baseline is of

568
01:20:27,583 --> 01:20:29,625
the status of sharks and

569
01:20:29,625 --> 01:20:31,666
rays in the country. So that's one of the

570
01:20:31,666 --> 01:20:32,708
things that's important to

571
01:20:32,708 --> 01:20:35,875
do. And the absence of sort

572
01:20:35,875 --> 01:20:37,625
of the government data or collecting the

573
01:20:37,625 --> 01:20:39,458
data that you need for

574
01:20:39,458 --> 01:20:40,958
national plans of action.

575
01:20:42,875 --> 01:20:45,041
That's where these kinds of surveys come

576
01:20:45,041 --> 01:20:47,208
in because we can we

577
01:20:47,208 --> 01:20:48,125
need to know obviously

578
01:20:48,125 --> 01:20:50,666
the coastal sharks occur, but the deep

579
01:20:50,666 --> 01:20:51,583
sea is a whole other

580
01:20:51,583 --> 01:20:54,958
ballgame. And there's you know,

581
01:20:54,958 --> 01:20:57,666
there's little not very much funding for

582
01:20:57,666 --> 01:21:00,000
the you know, the tropical reef

583
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:01,000
associated in coastal

584
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:03,666
species and so even less for deep sea

585
01:21:03,666 --> 01:21:05,958
species. Yeah, no, and the deep sea ones

586
01:21:05,958 --> 01:21:07,166
are obviously the more

587
01:21:07,166 --> 01:21:08,458
vulnerable ones because they tend to be

588
01:21:08,458 --> 01:21:11,041
slower growing longer living and all that

589
01:21:11,041 --> 01:21:12,583
compared to the near shore species.

590
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,166
So they're even even a potentially more

591
01:21:15,166 --> 01:21:18,583
concerned out there. Exactly. And what I

592
01:21:18,583 --> 01:21:21,875
what I found here is that the

593
01:21:21,875 --> 01:21:22,916
place where we went to try to

594
01:21:22,958 --> 01:21:26,250
catch the gulper sharks is just out from

595
01:21:26,250 --> 01:21:29,583
Tela Bay. It's not very far off shore.

596
01:21:29,583 --> 01:21:31,625
You can see it's far from it's a bit of a

597
01:21:31,958 --> 01:21:35,000
transit for the fishers, but you're close

598
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:38,833
to shore and in two to 300 meters of

599
01:21:38,833 --> 01:21:39,791
water and there's just a

600
01:21:39,791 --> 01:21:42,375
huge, there's at least two species of

601
01:21:42,375 --> 01:21:44,583
gulper sharks. We're catching the pups so

602
01:21:44,583 --> 01:21:45,291
it might be a nursery

603
01:21:45,416 --> 01:21:48,666
area we catch the adult females. So it's

604
01:21:48,666 --> 01:21:49,416
this really interesting

605
01:21:49,416 --> 01:21:52,208
place and while right now nobody,

606
01:21:53,208 --> 01:21:55,166
not I won't say nobody because there is a

607
01:21:55,166 --> 01:21:56,208
targeted shark fishery in

608
01:21:56,208 --> 01:21:57,416
Guatemala for deep sea sharks,

609
01:21:58,125 --> 01:22:00,625
which is just around the corner. But at

610
01:22:00,625 --> 01:22:01,416
the moment the Honduran

611
01:22:01,416 --> 01:22:02,875
fishers nobody really wants it.

612
01:22:03,416 --> 01:22:06,250
But we can see in the future what's

613
01:22:06,250 --> 01:22:07,041
happening in the rest of the

614
01:22:07,041 --> 01:22:08,250
world with deep sea sharks is

615
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:12,291
that there is global demand and it's very

616
01:22:12,291 --> 01:22:13,000
high in targeted

617
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:14,458
fisheries for deep sea sharks and

618
01:22:14,458 --> 01:22:16,500
especially gulper sharks because they

619
01:22:16,500 --> 01:22:19,166
have such high oil levels in their in

620
01:22:19,166 --> 01:22:20,708
their liver. So the global

621
01:22:21,333 --> 01:22:23,583
shark liver oil trade is kind of knocking

622
01:22:23,583 --> 01:22:25,750
on the door. So it would

623
01:22:25,750 --> 01:22:28,333
really only take you know, we know

624
01:22:28,333 --> 01:22:30,625
these species they is what we saw one of

625
01:22:30,625 --> 01:22:33,291
them had one pup and may not

626
01:22:33,291 --> 01:22:34,583
reproduce. I think the little

627
01:22:34,583 --> 01:22:36,458
gulper shark they say that they produce

628
01:22:36,458 --> 01:22:38,500
two sharks every two to

629
01:22:38,500 --> 01:22:41,000
three years, two pups and so

630
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:43,041
and they live for a long time so they're

631
01:22:43,041 --> 01:22:44,333
they have very low

632
01:22:44,333 --> 01:22:46,083
productivity and once you knock down that

633
01:22:46,083 --> 01:22:47,958
population it's really hard to recover.

634
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:50,791
So we have a really great opportunity

635
01:22:50,791 --> 01:22:52,500
here to sort of protect

636
01:22:52,583 --> 01:22:54,041
an area that could be really important

637
01:22:54,041 --> 01:22:56,416
for the survival of the species. You

638
01:22:56,416 --> 01:22:57,500
raise a question here

639
01:22:57,625 --> 01:23:00,333
is that particularly in Central America

640
01:23:00,333 --> 01:23:01,416
we have a lot of smaller

641
01:23:01,416 --> 01:23:02,916
countries at all border some

642
01:23:02,958 --> 01:23:04,708
border both Pacific and Caribbean some

643
01:23:04,708 --> 01:23:06,916
just in one but you have a lot of smaller

644
01:23:06,916 --> 01:23:09,250
countries and and if like you

645
01:23:09,250 --> 01:23:11,000
say in Guatemala has a fishery going

646
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:13,791
where Honduras doesn't I'm not sure what

647
01:23:13,791 --> 01:23:15,583
Belize current status is but

648
01:23:15,958 --> 01:23:18,041
do you almost see like a regional like I

649
01:23:18,041 --> 01:23:18,791
don't know Central

650
01:23:18,791 --> 01:23:20,708
American or partisan like a

651
01:23:21,041 --> 01:23:23,541
a group of countries in Central America

652
01:23:23,541 --> 01:23:24,125
getting together and

653
01:23:24,125 --> 01:23:25,333
developing an overall

654
01:23:25,875 --> 01:23:27,791
strategy or do you think there'd be it'd

655
01:23:27,791 --> 01:23:29,000
be difficult to pull together?

656
01:23:29,708 --> 01:23:31,000
That is funny you should mention that

657
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:32,041
that is something that we

658
01:23:32,041 --> 01:23:33,500
definitely have on our radar

659
01:23:33,708 --> 01:23:38,541
but there are very different forces at

660
01:23:38,541 --> 01:23:39,125
play in the different

661
01:23:39,125 --> 01:23:40,000
countries so we have

662
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:42,583
Honduras which technically is a shark

663
01:23:42,583 --> 01:23:43,333
sanctuary they're not

664
01:23:43,333 --> 01:23:44,500
supposed to be catching exporting.

665
01:23:45,458 --> 01:23:46,958
Guatemala has a very tiny piece of the

666
01:23:46,958 --> 01:23:48,833
Caribbean on this side so

667
01:23:48,833 --> 01:23:50,416
they do have while they do have

668
01:23:50,416 --> 01:23:52,500
a shark and ray fishery it's it's just

669
01:23:52,500 --> 01:23:53,916
it's something like 11

670
01:23:53,916 --> 01:23:56,250
boats so it's not that that

671
01:23:56,291 --> 01:23:59,666
many that being said they are right on

672
01:23:59,666 --> 01:24:00,541
the edge like they don't

673
01:24:00,541 --> 01:24:01,833
have very much territory there

674
01:24:01,833 --> 01:24:03,500
so there is a bit of transboundary

675
01:24:03,500 --> 01:24:05,875
fishing that happens there and then

676
01:24:05,875 --> 01:24:07,250
Belize is a small country

677
01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:09,958
with probably the fewest per capita

678
01:24:09,958 --> 01:24:13,541
fishers and they have a

679
01:24:13,541 --> 01:24:14,750
shark fishery but it is actually

680
01:24:14,833 --> 01:24:17,458
mostly for export to Guatemala and then

681
01:24:17,458 --> 01:24:18,958
Mexico is a shark eating

682
01:24:18,958 --> 01:24:21,041
country and so while we don't have

683
01:24:21,083 --> 01:24:23,916
huge and along that region the shark

684
01:24:23,916 --> 01:24:25,666
fishery isn't big and

685
01:24:25,666 --> 01:24:27,250
they're not really going for the

686
01:24:27,250 --> 01:24:30,500
deep sea sharks yet you know they're

687
01:24:30,500 --> 01:24:31,541
they're a shark and array

688
01:24:31,541 --> 01:24:33,541
eating country and Guatemala

689
01:24:33,541 --> 01:24:35,291
is a shark and array eating country

690
01:24:35,291 --> 01:24:36,791
Belize is not so there's like very

691
01:24:36,791 --> 01:24:38,125
different dynamics but yes

692
01:24:38,583 --> 01:24:41,250
there is a you know we would like to see

693
01:24:41,250 --> 01:24:44,458
a unified closed season for sharks the

694
01:24:44,458 --> 01:24:45,416
same way that they do

695
01:24:45,708 --> 01:24:48,958
lobster and conch yeah those those have

696
01:24:48,958 --> 01:24:50,666
been kind of across the

697
01:24:50,666 --> 01:24:52,375
region yeah i'd say i'd

698
01:24:52,375 --> 01:24:53,916
think Mexico would be a difficult would

699
01:24:53,916 --> 01:24:55,666
be a tough one relative

700
01:24:55,666 --> 01:24:56,875
to Central America they are

701
01:24:57,500 --> 01:24:59,250
shark eating kind of they do huge

702
01:24:59,250 --> 01:25:01,208
fisheries i'm more familiar with the

703
01:25:01,208 --> 01:25:02,416
pacific than the than the

704
01:25:02,500 --> 01:25:04,666
Caribbean and the gulf side but they

705
01:25:04,666 --> 01:25:07,041
obviously they do a lot of fishing for

706
01:25:07,041 --> 01:25:07,958
sharks they eat a lot

707
01:25:07,958 --> 01:25:10,875
but but from from at least if the Central

708
01:25:10,875 --> 01:25:11,750
American countries were

709
01:25:11,750 --> 01:25:13,958
more of a block they could have

710
01:25:14,750 --> 01:25:16,875
maybe some more i don't know parodies the

711
01:25:16,875 --> 01:25:18,291
right word at this point in

712
01:25:18,291 --> 01:25:19,500
time to talk about but have

713
01:25:19,500 --> 01:25:22,000
something of a yes exactly and the the

714
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:23,875
Caribbean part of Mexico as

715
01:25:23,875 --> 01:25:25,916
well um you know these days

716
01:25:25,916 --> 01:25:28,125
it's becoming it's like everything else

717
01:25:28,125 --> 01:25:28,833
it's becoming more

718
01:25:28,833 --> 01:25:33,041
ecotourism um and uh based and

719
01:25:33,166 --> 01:25:35,125
so i think there is opportunity there

720
01:25:35,125 --> 01:25:39,458
because um the the um they have

721
01:25:39,458 --> 01:25:40,833
ecotourism with sharks and

722
01:25:40,875 --> 01:25:42,208
and plyo carbon with the bull shark

723
01:25:42,208 --> 01:25:44,541
diving um there's ecotourism for the

724
01:25:44,541 --> 01:25:45,583
divers with the spotted

725
01:25:45,583 --> 01:25:49,208
eagle ray um and so the tide may be

726
01:25:49,208 --> 01:25:51,583
turning for those uh those

727
01:25:51,583 --> 01:25:53,041
fisheries as well and i think

728
01:25:53,041 --> 01:25:56,333
public sentiment is also um changing uh

729
01:25:56,333 --> 01:25:59,541
the going away from um killing and more

730
01:25:59,541 --> 01:26:00,458
towards keeping them

731
01:26:00,500 --> 01:26:03,333
keeping them alive yeah yeah isn't it off

732
01:26:03,333 --> 01:26:04,875
the ukutan is there a whale shark

733
01:26:04,875 --> 01:26:06,666
ecotourism thing oh yeah

734
01:26:06,833 --> 01:26:09,041
huge yeah that's the biggest aggregation

735
01:26:09,041 --> 01:26:10,458
of whale sharks uh in the

736
01:26:10,458 --> 01:26:12,500
world and it's off of um just

737
01:26:12,500 --> 01:26:14,500
north of Cancun, east of the Harris right

738
01:26:14,500 --> 01:26:15,500
yeah okay okay and then

739
01:26:15,500 --> 01:26:17,208
but even like that's a big

740
01:26:17,208 --> 01:26:18,666
biorebizer they actually have that that

741
01:26:18,666 --> 01:26:20,000
is a a protected area

742
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:21,500
just where those whale sharks

743
01:26:21,500 --> 01:26:23,041
aggregate so that is totally protected

744
01:26:23,041 --> 01:26:24,541
right i assume that's big

745
01:26:24,541 --> 01:26:25,916
tourist money for mexico is

746
01:26:25,916 --> 01:26:28,458
me my guess oh yes for sure yeah as long

747
01:26:28,458 --> 01:26:29,750
as i don't show up then all the whale

748
01:26:29,750 --> 01:26:30,416
sharks will disappear

749
01:26:30,541 --> 01:26:32,666
and they'll never see them so we're gonna

750
01:26:32,666 --> 01:26:35,541
get to there dave yeah but

751
01:26:35,541 --> 01:26:38,416
but even but even where you

752
01:26:38,416 --> 01:26:41,125
are in uh off of i know Belize i believe

753
01:26:41,125 --> 01:26:42,000
and then Honduras you guys

754
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:43,291
do have a bit of a whale shark

755
01:26:43,541 --> 01:26:46,125
ecotourism that is an interesting story

756
01:26:46,125 --> 01:26:48,625
um yes probably up until

757
01:26:48,625 --> 01:26:50,625
about 10 years ago it was a very

758
01:26:50,666 --> 01:26:54,166
big um tourism ecotourism uh draw and

759
01:26:54,166 --> 01:26:55,250
southern Belize off of

760
01:26:55,250 --> 01:26:56,708
gladden spit the the whale sharks

761
01:26:56,750 --> 01:26:59,875
came in and um a little bit different

762
01:26:59,875 --> 01:27:01,541
part of the year than the Mexico i

763
01:27:01,541 --> 01:27:02,875
believe i believe it was earlier in

764
01:27:02,875 --> 01:27:04,500
the year and then here off the bay

765
01:27:04,500 --> 01:27:05,750
islands especially utilla

766
01:27:05,750 --> 01:27:06,958
there was also an aggregation

767
01:27:07,958 --> 01:27:10,708
and that both of those sightings have

768
01:27:10,708 --> 01:27:13,500
gone down enough uh now

769
01:27:13,500 --> 01:27:15,291
that it's really not a reliable

770
01:27:15,958 --> 01:27:17,500
in the past you used to be able to say

771
01:27:17,500 --> 01:27:18,333
come to Belize see whale

772
01:27:18,333 --> 01:27:20,250
sharks during this time and um

773
01:27:20,250 --> 01:27:22,791
and now you'll be lucky if you get out to

774
01:27:22,791 --> 01:27:24,458
see them um and it's a

775
01:27:24,458 --> 01:27:25,125
it's a big shame because it

776
01:27:25,166 --> 01:27:27,458
really had become a very big part of the

777
01:27:27,458 --> 01:27:29,375
economy of um southern Belize

778
01:27:29,375 --> 01:27:30,500
and it was a pretty big part

779
01:27:30,500 --> 01:27:33,666
of the economy of um especially utilla um

780
01:27:33,666 --> 01:27:36,291
and the bay islands here and um they we

781
01:27:36,291 --> 01:27:37,666
do like we we do get

782
01:27:37,666 --> 01:27:39,250
reports here and there i went out

783
01:27:39,250 --> 01:27:41,666
searching with a friend for whale shark

784
01:27:41,666 --> 01:27:42,750
that was cited here a couple

785
01:27:42,750 --> 01:27:44,583
weeks ago so they do they do come around

786
01:27:44,583 --> 01:27:45,500
but it's not in the same

787
01:27:45,500 --> 01:27:47,041
numbers that it was do you think

788
01:27:47,041 --> 01:27:48,916
it's just kind of a decadal shift that

789
01:27:48,916 --> 01:27:50,500
they come they go they're here for a

790
01:27:50,500 --> 01:27:51,541
while i know there's not

791
01:27:51,583 --> 01:27:54,583
like a lot of long-term data to show that

792
01:27:54,583 --> 01:27:57,208
type of stuff but um i think

793
01:27:57,208 --> 01:27:59,291
so so the um the gladden spit

794
01:27:59,333 --> 01:28:02,083
Belize population they were around the

795
01:28:02,083 --> 01:28:02,583
fish spawning

796
01:28:02,583 --> 01:28:03,875
aggregations and those have been

797
01:28:03,875 --> 01:28:06,416
fished down pretty pretty hard um because

798
01:28:06,416 --> 01:28:07,666
whale sharks eat fish eggs

799
01:28:07,666 --> 01:28:10,791
and uh and um you know the

800
01:28:10,791 --> 01:28:13,916
other um plankton in the area and so

801
01:28:13,916 --> 01:28:15,000
there was a big opportunity

802
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:17,208
there for the sharks to feed and

803
01:28:17,250 --> 01:28:19,500
because those um those spawning

804
01:28:19,500 --> 01:28:21,125
aggregations have declined there's just

805
01:28:21,125 --> 01:28:23,333
not as much food um and if they

806
01:28:23,500 --> 01:28:24,875
it's you know that's one thing that would

807
01:28:24,875 --> 01:28:26,583
be great if the the spawning aggregations

808
01:28:26,583 --> 01:28:27,708
come back do we see the whale

809
01:28:27,708 --> 01:28:30,791
sharks come back um here in the bay

810
01:28:30,791 --> 01:28:32,291
islands the i think the

811
01:28:32,291 --> 01:28:33,791
running theory is that it actually

812
01:28:33,791 --> 01:28:37,000
had to do with um the land crabs that um

813
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:40,250
larvae that's the that's the local um

814
01:28:40,250 --> 01:28:41,291
story i don't i can't

815
01:28:41,333 --> 01:28:44,041
be for sure about that whale sharks also

816
01:28:44,041 --> 01:28:45,875
um feed on things like jack

817
01:28:45,875 --> 01:28:48,833
tuna spawn and so it could be

818
01:28:48,833 --> 01:28:50,625
any number it could be that the client

819
01:28:50,625 --> 01:28:51,833
the the currents have

820
01:28:51,833 --> 01:28:54,125
changed um that the you know this

821
01:28:54,125 --> 01:28:56,041
the wrong temperature and whatever it was

822
01:28:56,041 --> 01:28:56,541
that they were eating

823
01:28:56,541 --> 01:28:59,083
just isn't here um anymore or

824
01:28:59,083 --> 01:29:00,916
whatever it was that was spawning isn't

825
01:29:00,916 --> 01:29:02,458
spawning in such big numbers and it's

826
01:29:02,458 --> 01:29:03,250
just not worth it for

827
01:29:03,250 --> 01:29:06,208
them to come uh to this to this location

828
01:29:06,208 --> 01:29:08,041
anymore yeah it's it's a

829
01:29:08,041 --> 01:29:08,833
big mystery we have a lot of

830
01:29:08,916 --> 01:29:12,791
theories we all we're scientists we

831
01:29:12,791 --> 01:29:13,958
always get theories yeah

832
01:29:13,958 --> 01:29:15,500
exactly but a lack of food seems

833
01:29:15,500 --> 01:29:17,791
like a pretty good one most of the um the

834
01:29:17,791 --> 01:29:19,916
animals that we saw here um

835
01:29:19,916 --> 01:29:21,500
in the past are uh juvenile

836
01:29:21,500 --> 01:29:23,916
males so they're big still they're whale

837
01:29:23,916 --> 01:29:25,166
sharks um but they weren't

838
01:29:25,166 --> 01:29:26,500
like the big mature females

839
01:29:26,500 --> 01:29:28,000
that you see in some other aggregations

840
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:30,041
um and so you know these guys

841
01:29:30,041 --> 01:29:31,083
are trying to grow as fast as

842
01:29:31,083 --> 01:29:33,208
they possibly can uh to get to

843
01:29:33,208 --> 01:29:35,791
reproductive size and if the food's not

844
01:29:35,791 --> 01:29:36,916
there if they're like teenage

845
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,000
boys basically like if they can't just

846
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:41,000
constantly eat they're probably they're

847
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:41,791
going to try and find

848
01:29:41,791 --> 01:29:42,833
somewhere else where they're going to

849
01:29:42,833 --> 01:29:45,375
have have better snack yeah

850
01:29:45,375 --> 01:29:48,041
so uh so what kind of stuff net

851
01:29:48,041 --> 01:29:50,375
with the uh with this workshop now you're

852
01:29:50,375 --> 01:29:51,333
going to be you're going to

853
01:29:51,333 --> 01:29:53,208
have some some kind of post

854
01:29:53,208 --> 01:29:54,541
workshop stuff count i know you're

855
01:29:54,541 --> 01:29:58,000
working on a video from this we hope so

856
01:29:58,000 --> 01:29:59,458
yes um so we were able

857
01:29:59,500 --> 01:30:01,458
to um bring in a photographer

858
01:30:01,458 --> 01:30:03,416
videographer to get a lot of good footage

859
01:30:03,416 --> 01:30:05,875
so um we'd like to um

860
01:30:06,416 --> 01:30:08,083
be we'll put out some kind we'll be

861
01:30:08,083 --> 01:30:10,291
putting out news articles and blogs and

862
01:30:10,291 --> 01:30:10,958
things like that and

863
01:30:10,958 --> 01:30:13,166
then um from the videos we should be able

864
01:30:13,166 --> 01:30:14,541
to put up some some great

865
01:30:14,541 --> 01:30:17,083
like summary um summary videos

866
01:30:17,416 --> 01:30:19,916
and uh and social media posts and reels

867
01:30:19,916 --> 01:30:20,708
and things like that about

868
01:30:20,708 --> 01:30:22,916
the workshop and then also um

869
01:30:23,166 --> 01:30:25,208
with the shark and ray exhibit that our

870
01:30:25,208 --> 01:30:26,291
country coordinator anna

871
01:30:26,291 --> 01:30:28,208
lucia has put together which is

872
01:30:28,208 --> 01:30:30,833
a save our seas funded project um so

873
01:30:30,833 --> 01:30:33,500
we've also um got great some

874
01:30:33,500 --> 01:30:34,416
great output something coming

875
01:30:34,458 --> 01:30:35,875
from that one as well and that's an

876
01:30:35,875 --> 01:30:36,625
exhibit that's traveling

877
01:30:36,625 --> 01:30:38,208
throughout honduras this year

878
01:30:38,500 --> 01:30:40,250
and then next year it's going to belize

879
01:30:40,250 --> 01:30:41,666
um and so it's going to be

880
01:30:41,666 --> 01:30:42,875
translated into this one's in

881
01:30:42,875 --> 01:30:44,625
spanish and we're translating it into

882
01:30:44,625 --> 01:30:45,666
english and then um

883
01:30:45,666 --> 01:30:46,916
hopefully we can get into some of the

884
01:30:46,916 --> 01:30:49,083
other local languages like garifuna and

885
01:30:49,083 --> 01:30:51,583
maya and the local creoles and things

886
01:30:51,583 --> 01:30:53,333
like that so nice yeah

887
01:30:53,333 --> 01:30:55,833
really nice opportunity to get more

888
01:30:55,833 --> 01:30:58,625
elizmo evangelizing yeah

889
01:30:58,625 --> 01:31:00,250
well i know i posted some

890
01:31:00,291 --> 01:31:02,250
stuff on social media and i know you'll

891
01:31:02,250 --> 01:31:03,625
probably be doing some more is there any

892
01:31:03,625 --> 01:31:04,583
is there any website

893
01:31:04,583 --> 01:31:06,291
off the top you people could go check it

894
01:31:06,291 --> 01:31:08,333
out just online now or you

895
01:31:08,333 --> 01:31:10,000
need to wait wait until it comes

896
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:13,375
um we are what we have information on our

897
01:31:13,375 --> 01:31:15,125
website our our social medias our

898
01:31:15,125 --> 01:31:16,708
instagram uh facebook

899
01:31:17,083 --> 01:31:19,208
um all those are youtube that would be

900
01:31:19,208 --> 01:31:20,250
the places so we'll definitely

901
01:31:20,250 --> 01:31:21,416
be posting a link when we have

902
01:31:21,416 --> 01:31:24,583
those videos up okay um and the other

903
01:31:24,583 --> 01:31:26,666
thing that i that's part of this um

904
01:31:26,666 --> 01:31:28,500
fellowship that that funded

905
01:31:28,750 --> 01:31:32,250
uh the tech the workshop um is i'm trying

906
01:31:32,250 --> 01:31:33,000
to get out some satellite

907
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:34,333
tags on some of these species

908
01:31:34,583 --> 01:31:36,041
as well so i'm i'm looking at the

909
01:31:36,041 --> 01:31:38,000
atlantic six skill shark um

910
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:39,250
i've got two out right now i'm

911
01:31:39,250 --> 01:31:41,958
hopefully um in a couple weeks we'll have

912
01:31:41,958 --> 01:31:43,125
some data and then i've

913
01:31:43,125 --> 01:31:44,333
got three more to put out so

914
01:31:44,375 --> 01:31:45,916
before the end of the year i hope to have

915
01:31:45,916 --> 01:31:49,291
um uh five tag sharks um and

916
01:31:49,291 --> 01:31:50,250
so we'll be putting out some

917
01:31:50,250 --> 01:31:51,583
information about that as soon as we get

918
01:31:51,583 --> 01:31:53,500
it as well oh great oh that's that's

919
01:31:53,500 --> 01:31:54,583
really cool so a bit so

920
01:31:54,583 --> 01:31:55,541
they'll be able to they'll be able to

921
01:31:55,541 --> 01:31:56,625
follow there'll be a lot more i think

922
01:31:56,625 --> 01:31:57,125
it's kind of great you can

923
01:31:57,166 --> 01:31:59,041
have they have some follow-ups a lot of

924
01:31:59,041 --> 01:32:00,000
times these workshops and

925
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:01,000
and everybody takes off and

926
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:02,583
that's like last the last you hear of

927
01:32:02,583 --> 01:32:06,291
anybody on uh yeah exactly yeah we're

928
01:32:06,291 --> 01:32:07,375
hope we um we've got a

929
01:32:07,375 --> 01:32:09,791
little whatsapp group with all of the

930
01:32:09,791 --> 01:32:12,375
participants and um you provided a lot of

931
01:32:12,375 --> 01:32:13,333
really great resources

932
01:32:13,333 --> 01:32:16,583
for everybody um so a big mountain of

933
01:32:16,583 --> 01:32:18,000
shark references and

934
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:20,041
taxonomy and and uh identification

935
01:32:20,208 --> 01:32:22,708
guides and everything um so yeah we'll

936
01:32:22,708 --> 01:32:23,500
definitely be keeping that

937
01:32:23,500 --> 01:32:26,833
group um in the loop and um i

938
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:30,083
also um i still would like to get out and

939
01:32:30,083 --> 01:32:31,500
you know collect a few more of these

940
01:32:31,500 --> 01:32:32,500
organisms we've got to

941
01:32:32,500 --> 01:32:33,291
get some more genetic

942
01:32:33,958 --> 01:32:36,833
uh genetic uh samples so that we can

943
01:32:36,833 --> 01:32:39,875
start to really kind of nail down uh what

944
01:32:39,875 --> 01:32:41,916
we've got and then working with um

945
01:32:42,125 --> 01:32:45,583
brit brit finucci and um and others on

946
01:32:45,583 --> 01:32:49,708
the liver oil um project as well so uh

947
01:32:49,708 --> 01:32:50,333
we've got a lot of good

948
01:32:50,333 --> 01:32:52,333
stuff coming up that's great that's

949
01:32:52,333 --> 01:32:53,500
that's really that's really that's really

950
01:32:53,500 --> 01:32:54,750
terrific stuff um is

951
01:32:54,791 --> 01:32:57,708
there anything you want to kind of add

952
01:32:57,708 --> 01:32:59,041
onto our discussion here

953
01:32:59,041 --> 01:33:00,541
and everything before we go

954
01:33:01,083 --> 01:33:03,000
any other any other kind of thoughts or

955
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:06,541
comments you have um well

956
01:33:06,541 --> 01:33:07,666
first of all thanks for coming

957
01:33:07,791 --> 01:33:10,000
for making this happen davis i think it

958
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:11,458
was very successful um like i

959
01:33:11,458 --> 01:33:12,458
said we've been talking about

960
01:33:12,458 --> 01:33:15,458
this for for about a decade um and so it

961
01:33:15,458 --> 01:33:16,125
was really great that we

962
01:33:16,125 --> 01:33:17,333
were able to to bring it

963
01:33:17,333 --> 01:33:18,958
together and you know we've been talking

964
01:33:18,958 --> 01:33:20,375
about replicating something

965
01:33:20,375 --> 01:33:22,500
like this and beliefs um so

966
01:33:22,541 --> 01:33:24,750
that we can get our you know a lot of our

967
01:33:24,750 --> 01:33:27,083
other partners um uh i think

968
01:33:27,083 --> 01:33:28,166
one of the better thing one

969
01:33:28,166 --> 01:33:29,333
of the nice things about the workshop

970
01:33:29,333 --> 01:33:31,416
also was that um we talked a lot about

971
01:33:31,416 --> 01:33:32,750
how to take good photos

972
01:33:33,166 --> 01:33:35,916
for um identification so even if you

973
01:33:35,916 --> 01:33:37,208
can't you don't have the

974
01:33:37,208 --> 01:33:38,375
tools in front of you to be able

975
01:33:38,375 --> 01:33:39,666
to identify something or you just don't

976
01:33:39,666 --> 01:33:41,541
know how do you take a how

977
01:33:41,541 --> 01:33:42,958
do you take a good photo for

978
01:33:42,958 --> 01:33:45,333
identification like not from the back not

979
01:33:45,333 --> 01:33:46,541
on the side you know not at

980
01:33:46,541 --> 01:33:48,000
an angle it needs to be you

981
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:49,166
know these are the features that we're

982
01:33:49,166 --> 01:33:50,458
looking for and so you need to have it

983
01:33:50,458 --> 01:33:51,625
this way and then we did

984
01:33:51,666 --> 01:33:53,916
that great um we went to the fish market

985
01:33:53,916 --> 01:33:55,916
as well and talked to um

986
01:33:55,916 --> 01:33:57,458
talked to people who are selling

987
01:33:57,458 --> 01:33:59,708
fish and and basically went through like

988
01:33:59,708 --> 01:34:01,083
um what kind of questions

989
01:34:01,083 --> 01:34:02,125
do you ask even if it's not

990
01:34:02,125 --> 01:34:04,000
something that you're there are no sharks

991
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:04,750
and rays there because

992
01:34:04,750 --> 01:34:05,958
that's illegal they're they don't

993
01:34:05,958 --> 01:34:08,083
sell sharks and ray or not rays but they

994
01:34:08,083 --> 01:34:09,166
um the sharks are legal

995
01:34:09,166 --> 01:34:10,583
and there's not really much

996
01:34:10,583 --> 01:34:12,833
consumption of of the rays locally but

997
01:34:12,833 --> 01:34:13,875
there were a lot of fish and

998
01:34:13,875 --> 01:34:14,541
there were some interesting

999
01:34:14,541 --> 01:34:17,208
species and so going into the people who

1000
01:34:17,208 --> 01:34:17,916
are selling fish and

1001
01:34:17,916 --> 01:34:19,625
asking the kinds of questions

1002
01:34:19,750 --> 01:34:21,125
that you might need to know to find what

1003
01:34:21,125 --> 01:34:22,291
you're looking for like where did you

1004
01:34:22,291 --> 01:34:23,041
where the fishers

1005
01:34:23,041 --> 01:34:23,958
bringing this in where do

1006
01:34:24,208 --> 01:34:25,875
you know where what do you do you see

1007
01:34:25,875 --> 01:34:27,041
seasonal you know

1008
01:34:27,041 --> 01:34:29,458
fluctuations and and these numbers and

1009
01:34:30,375 --> 01:34:31,750
you know it's not just about sharks all

1010
01:34:31,750 --> 01:34:33,291
the time we we like fish

1011
01:34:34,500 --> 01:34:36,833
yeah so yeah being able to just get get

1012
01:34:36,833 --> 01:34:37,958
out and and it tells you a

1013
01:34:37,958 --> 01:34:39,333
lot about your local ecosystem

1014
01:34:39,500 --> 01:34:42,333
going to the fish market um i i was very

1015
01:34:42,333 --> 01:34:43,958
surprised to see that there was tilapia

1016
01:34:43,958 --> 01:34:45,041
and like a carp okay

1017
01:34:45,083 --> 01:34:47,166
a big goldfish that's caught in local

1018
01:34:47,166 --> 01:34:49,916
lagoons um it's like an asian and a and

1019
01:34:49,916 --> 01:34:51,625
an african species and it's being sold

1020
01:34:51,625 --> 01:34:52,916
locally at the fish market

1021
01:34:53,416 --> 01:34:55,791
um and so you know you do you get a

1022
01:34:55,791 --> 01:34:59,458
really you really um it is one of the

1023
01:34:59,458 --> 01:35:01,208
ways to better understand your

1024
01:35:01,500 --> 01:35:04,083
your local marine ecosystem without

1025
01:35:04,083 --> 01:35:05,041
necessarily having to get on

1026
01:35:05,041 --> 01:35:07,000
a boat yeah yeah so i think

1027
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:08,750
that was also we had some i you know we

1028
01:35:08,750 --> 01:35:10,625
we did a lot of sharky stuff but we also

1029
01:35:10,625 --> 01:35:12,083
you know there i think it

1030
01:35:12,083 --> 01:35:14,000
was a really nice in depth

1031
01:35:14,625 --> 01:35:16,458
different activity kind of workshop where

1032
01:35:16,458 --> 01:35:19,500
we really made people think about bigger

1033
01:35:19,500 --> 01:35:21,833
questions and how to answer um

1034
01:35:22,250 --> 01:35:24,125
you know if i can just say on a personal

1035
01:35:24,125 --> 01:35:25,958
note i mean i found it was my first time

1036
01:35:25,958 --> 01:35:26,833
in honduras found a

1037
01:35:26,833 --> 01:35:28,375
wonderful place people were

1038
01:35:28,500 --> 01:35:30,708
awesome really enjoyed it hopefully make

1039
01:35:30,708 --> 01:35:32,583
i made some new friends there and nobody

1040
01:35:32,583 --> 01:35:33,250
was saying like oh

1041
01:35:33,250 --> 01:35:34,333
thank god he's gone finally

1042
01:35:36,833 --> 01:35:38,916
and but i had a really good time and if

1043
01:35:38,916 --> 01:35:40,416
you guys are looking anyone's out there

1044
01:35:40,416 --> 01:35:41,416
looking to go diving or go

1045
01:35:41,416 --> 01:35:43,166
to go go touristy someplace

1046
01:35:43,250 --> 01:35:45,458
i'd recommend honduras it was just a

1047
01:35:45,458 --> 01:35:47,750
wonderful experience um i

1048
01:35:47,750 --> 01:35:48,583
also didn't have to spend three

1049
01:35:48,583 --> 01:35:50,125
days on a plane to get there like i did

1050
01:35:50,125 --> 01:35:52,208
did madagascar so that was that was a

1051
01:35:52,208 --> 01:35:53,541
huge one for me personally

1052
01:35:53,791 --> 01:35:56,125
and um that helps but yeah it was it was

1053
01:35:56,125 --> 01:35:57,958
an awesome time and when the video comes

1054
01:35:57,958 --> 01:35:59,166
up we'll definitely

1055
01:35:59,166 --> 01:36:00,500
post it out there and we'll

1056
01:36:00,500 --> 01:36:02,250
we'll have someone else uh someone from

1057
01:36:02,250 --> 01:36:04,000
mar alliance come on anna lucia probably

1058
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:05,750
and talk about the video and

1059
01:36:06,208 --> 01:36:08,291
shout out to save our season they did she

1060
01:36:08,291 --> 01:36:09,583
did a really terrific job

1061
01:36:09,583 --> 01:36:11,041
with the uh your traveling

1062
01:36:11,541 --> 01:36:13,666
show there shark show yeah it's on its

1063
01:36:13,666 --> 01:36:15,500
way to to the next town as we

1064
01:36:15,500 --> 01:36:16,750
speak it's in a truck believe

1065
01:36:16,833 --> 01:36:19,083
oh cool awesome yeah great great great

1066
01:36:19,083 --> 01:36:21,250
cool well ivy thank you so much for

1067
01:36:21,250 --> 01:36:22,458
coming on and sharing this

1068
01:36:22,750 --> 01:36:25,708
uh this wonderful uh workshop we had last

1069
01:36:25,708 --> 01:36:28,083
last week and uh and we're

1070
01:36:28,083 --> 01:36:28,875
hopefully looking forward

1071
01:36:28,875 --> 01:36:31,166
to seeing you again and um doing it again

1072
01:36:31,166 --> 01:36:32,458
somewhere maybe belize so

1073
01:36:32,458 --> 01:36:34,333
yeah absolutely and i will be uh

1074
01:36:34,375 --> 01:36:36,666
sending you some fin clips in the mail

1075
01:36:36,666 --> 01:36:38,500
awesome i'm looking forward to i'm

1076
01:36:38,500 --> 01:36:39,291
looking forward to that

1077
01:36:39,333 --> 01:36:42,166
it's always fun so thanks very much

1078
01:36:42,166 --> 01:36:44,041
thanks a lot thank you i

1079
01:36:44,041 --> 01:36:46,041
think a couple the main couple of

1080
01:36:46,041 --> 01:36:48,041
things was it was a it was a terrific

1081
01:36:48,041 --> 01:36:49,583
really heard say a really

1082
01:36:49,583 --> 01:36:50,916
enthusiastic group of young

1083
01:36:50,916 --> 01:36:52,875
people there and all these people that

1084
01:36:52,875 --> 01:36:53,750
were there you know

1085
01:36:53,750 --> 01:36:54,708
most of them were under 30

1086
01:36:54,708 --> 01:36:56,291
and they were in fact i think pretty much

1087
01:36:56,291 --> 01:36:57,041
in fact we had the youngest

1088
01:36:57,041 --> 01:36:57,916
one was a high school student

1089
01:36:57,916 --> 01:37:00,291
was 13 and it was just really

1090
01:37:00,291 --> 01:37:02,958
enthusiastic to learn as much as he could

1091
01:37:02,958 --> 01:37:04,000
and i think you know

1092
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:05,333
and that's like we said you know that's

1093
01:37:05,333 --> 01:37:06,250
the foundation really the

1094
01:37:06,250 --> 01:37:07,208
future for like honduras

1095
01:37:07,833 --> 01:37:09,875
having these young people there and just

1096
01:37:09,875 --> 01:37:11,416
it was the enthusiasm that

1097
01:37:11,416 --> 01:37:14,625
uh uh i really found uh uh

1098
01:37:14,666 --> 01:37:17,083
special and uh and also the people were

1099
01:37:17,083 --> 01:37:18,333
just very warm friendly

1100
01:37:18,333 --> 01:37:20,166
people it was my first time in

1101
01:37:20,166 --> 01:37:22,500
honduras had a wonderful time there and

1102
01:37:22,500 --> 01:37:23,291
they're just a lot of us

1103
01:37:23,291 --> 01:37:24,125
just because the people were

1104
01:37:24,125 --> 01:37:27,000
just really really good and um and just

1105
01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:28,541
getting to know them and uh

1106
01:37:28,541 --> 01:37:30,583
but but doing the different

1107
01:37:30,583 --> 01:37:32,625
parts we talked about was the workshop as

1108
01:37:32,625 --> 01:37:34,000
far as the luxury part or the

1109
01:37:34,000 --> 01:37:34,875
learning to take photographs

1110
01:37:35,333 --> 01:37:37,333
or the dissection there everybody was

1111
01:37:37,333 --> 01:37:39,291
just really enthusiastic about it they

1112
01:37:39,291 --> 01:37:40,375
wanted to learn and that

1113
01:37:40,375 --> 01:37:42,750
was probably the big take home yeah yeah

1114
01:37:42,750 --> 01:37:45,333
now now i mentioned at the

1115
01:37:45,333 --> 01:37:46,083
beginning of this episode this

1116
01:37:46,083 --> 01:37:49,000
could be a platform to take off from in

1117
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:50,458
terms of learning about deep

1118
01:37:50,458 --> 01:37:52,958
sea uh deep sea sharks within

1119
01:37:53,166 --> 01:37:55,250
the uh within the waters of honduras do

1120
01:37:55,250 --> 01:37:56,708
you think that there are some students

1121
01:37:56,708 --> 01:37:58,083
that showed interest

1122
01:37:58,208 --> 01:38:01,500
in in identifying or even working with

1123
01:38:01,500 --> 01:38:03,750
fisheries to manage these types of of

1124
01:38:03,750 --> 01:38:04,916
shark fisheries i think

1125
01:38:04,958 --> 01:38:06,666
some definitely because they're at their

1126
01:38:06,666 --> 01:38:07,458
point in their careers a

1127
01:38:07,458 --> 01:38:08,375
lot of them are a little a lot

1128
01:38:08,375 --> 01:38:09,541
of them are at that point they're just

1129
01:38:09,541 --> 01:38:10,916
kind of starting out there in

1130
01:38:10,916 --> 01:38:12,208
college or just post college

1131
01:38:12,833 --> 01:38:14,708
but some of them are definitely i think i

1132
01:38:14,708 --> 01:38:15,333
think there'll be some

1133
01:38:15,333 --> 01:38:17,333
that'll really take the sort of

1134
01:38:17,333 --> 01:38:18,750
the bull by the horns here and really

1135
01:38:18,750 --> 01:38:20,791
take off and do some stuff it could be

1136
01:38:20,791 --> 01:38:21,833
you know more than i think

1137
01:38:22,208 --> 01:38:24,083
but i think even but you know as as we

1138
01:38:24,083 --> 01:38:24,750
talked about some of the

1139
01:38:24,750 --> 01:38:25,625
people were more citizen

1140
01:38:25,625 --> 01:38:27,583
science types that attended the workshops

1141
01:38:27,583 --> 01:38:29,000
and they learned you know

1142
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:30,166
like the diving community there

1143
01:38:30,208 --> 01:38:32,291
they they took the tools they took away

1144
01:38:32,291 --> 01:38:33,916
with there will be helpful because

1145
01:38:33,916 --> 01:38:35,125
they'll know like okay i can

1146
01:38:35,125 --> 01:38:37,791
contact this person or that person to get

1147
01:38:37,791 --> 01:38:39,916
to know uh if i have some

1148
01:38:39,916 --> 01:38:40,750
questions and stuff and they

1149
01:38:40,750 --> 01:38:42,458
learned you know some of the basic skills

1150
01:38:42,458 --> 01:38:43,625
that sound you know is

1151
01:38:43,625 --> 01:38:44,750
like just taking pictures how

1152
01:38:44,750 --> 01:38:46,333
do you take a picture to identify stuff

1153
01:38:46,333 --> 01:38:48,875
right as ivy said like the

1154
01:38:48,875 --> 01:38:50,458
the lower you can get something

1155
01:38:50,458 --> 01:38:52,583
down to whether it's a family or a genus

1156
01:38:52,583 --> 01:38:54,500
you know if you get the genus that's

1157
01:38:54,500 --> 01:38:55,291
great if you get them

1158
01:38:55,291 --> 01:38:57,458
to species it's even better but a few of

1159
01:38:57,458 --> 01:38:58,333
the groups like we talked a

1160
01:38:58,333 --> 01:38:59,291
lot about the gulper sharks

1161
01:38:59,833 --> 01:39:01,375
that's a hard group i mean these guys

1162
01:39:01,375 --> 01:39:02,500
these these young for you

1163
01:39:02,500 --> 01:39:04,625
guys like you oh yeah for us it's

1164
01:39:04,625 --> 01:39:06,708
really hard so but having them get that

1165
01:39:06,708 --> 01:39:08,625
exposure will be really

1166
01:39:08,625 --> 01:39:09,791
will be important to say

1167
01:39:10,041 --> 01:39:11,083
do you want to work on some of these

1168
01:39:11,083 --> 01:39:12,208
tougher groups when you

1169
01:39:12,208 --> 01:39:13,416
get the easier ones for the

1170
01:39:13,416 --> 01:39:16,333
reasons you yeah so let me ask you this

1171
01:39:16,333 --> 01:39:18,333
you know the diet like

1172
01:39:18,333 --> 01:39:19,500
there's some divers there

1173
01:39:19,500 --> 01:39:21,125
like some scuba divers there as there's

1174
01:39:21,125 --> 01:39:22,333
as there's a big scuba

1175
01:39:22,333 --> 01:39:23,833
diving industry within hunduras

1176
01:39:24,375 --> 01:39:26,333
you know how often are they going to come

1177
01:39:26,333 --> 01:39:29,166
across a deep sea shark like what what

1178
01:39:29,166 --> 01:39:29,916
are we like what are

1179
01:39:29,916 --> 01:39:32,250
you asking them to do in this case well

1180
01:39:32,250 --> 01:39:33,750
the workshop wasn't just

1181
01:39:33,750 --> 01:39:35,000
deep sea though we focused

1182
01:39:35,000 --> 01:39:36,625
a lot in the deep sea it was just on

1183
01:39:36,625 --> 01:39:38,708
basic identification so

1184
01:39:38,708 --> 01:39:40,625
we've okay so if they see

1185
01:39:40,625 --> 01:39:43,083
coastal species they'll they'll get an

1186
01:39:43,083 --> 01:39:44,041
idea on how to how to

1187
01:39:44,041 --> 01:39:45,500
identify them now now a lot of the

1188
01:39:45,500 --> 01:39:47,333
common stuff like some of the bull sharks

1189
01:39:47,333 --> 01:39:49,083
and yeah you know the the

1190
01:39:49,083 --> 01:39:50,416
caribbean reef shark and some of

1191
01:39:50,458 --> 01:39:52,583
those most of those guys they can pick

1192
01:39:52,583 --> 01:39:54,000
those off pretty easily but it's when

1193
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:54,833
they see the unusual

1194
01:39:54,916 --> 01:39:57,083
thing like maybe offshore they'll see a

1195
01:39:57,083 --> 01:39:58,208
silky shark or something

1196
01:39:58,208 --> 01:40:00,000
or or when you get onto the

1197
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:02,166
rays the rays are just wide open because

1198
01:40:02,166 --> 01:40:03,125
nobody really pays any

1199
01:40:03,125 --> 01:40:04,666
attention to them i think after

1200
01:40:04,666 --> 01:40:06,333
this workshop they're gonna be a lot more

1201
01:40:06,333 --> 01:40:08,458
attention paid to the rays and

1202
01:40:08,458 --> 01:40:09,875
so i think so i think that'll

1203
01:40:09,875 --> 01:40:11,458
be that'll be something and then they'll

1204
01:40:11,458 --> 01:40:12,833
learn what characteristics

1205
01:40:12,833 --> 01:40:14,416
to look for like how do i know

1206
01:40:15,166 --> 01:40:17,416
you know if i say i see a shark swim by

1207
01:40:17,416 --> 01:40:19,000
what am i looking for to tell

1208
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:19,958
and i had some people showed

1209
01:40:19,958 --> 01:40:22,291
me some pictures of some sharks while i

1210
01:40:22,291 --> 01:40:23,166
was there they took diving

1211
01:40:23,166 --> 01:40:25,250
and i you know i gave my best i

1212
01:40:25,250 --> 01:40:26,625
mean obviously when you're taking

1213
01:40:26,625 --> 01:40:28,250
pictures diving you can't get the shark

1214
01:40:28,250 --> 01:40:29,791
to always you know perform

1215
01:40:29,791 --> 01:40:32,250
the way you want it to this way yeah can

1216
01:40:32,250 --> 01:40:33,208
you do that but but you

1217
01:40:33,208 --> 01:40:34,541
know but i did help a few of my

1218
01:40:34,541 --> 01:40:36,083
identify gave my best guess what i

1219
01:40:36,083 --> 01:40:38,375
thought some of them were and uh which

1220
01:40:38,375 --> 01:40:38,958
helped them because they

1221
01:40:38,958 --> 01:40:40,166
were they definitely said we don't

1222
01:40:40,166 --> 01:40:42,083
usually see this one this is here's some

1223
01:40:42,083 --> 01:40:43,041
of the ones we do see

1224
01:40:43,250 --> 01:40:44,625
we know what those are but here's it

1225
01:40:44,625 --> 01:40:46,500
here's what we don't see and so that

1226
01:40:46,500 --> 01:40:47,291
really was helpful for

1227
01:40:47,333 --> 01:40:49,000
them and then of course they do

1228
01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:50,541
occasionally come across some of the deep

1229
01:40:50,541 --> 01:40:52,458
sea stuff but again the

1230
01:40:52,458 --> 01:40:54,916
the main take over the thing is what to

1231
01:40:54,916 --> 01:40:56,791
look for fin position body

1232
01:40:56,791 --> 01:40:59,666
color um you know proportions

1233
01:41:00,125 --> 01:41:01,625
and then if they do happen to have one

1234
01:41:01,625 --> 01:41:03,666
they find it a you know well

1235
01:41:03,666 --> 01:41:04,666
even they can't really catch

1236
01:41:04,666 --> 01:41:05,916
them into honduras but if they come

1237
01:41:05,916 --> 01:41:08,000
across one they can take a picture of

1238
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:09,083
that might be dead or

1239
01:41:09,083 --> 01:41:10,625
something they'll know what to look get

1240
01:41:10,625 --> 01:41:11,416
some ideas what to look

1241
01:41:11,416 --> 01:41:12,666
for and it gave them a lot of

1242
01:41:12,666 --> 01:41:15,625
resources that they can go to as well and

1243
01:41:15,625 --> 01:41:16,375
of course now they got

1244
01:41:16,375 --> 01:41:17,291
you know better better

1245
01:41:17,416 --> 01:41:19,291
connections with ivy they know me yeah

1246
01:41:19,291 --> 01:41:20,958
and so that'll help you

1247
01:41:20,958 --> 01:41:21,916
know yeah that'll help out and

1248
01:41:21,916 --> 01:41:23,500
you know i get a lot of stuff comes in

1249
01:41:23,500 --> 01:41:25,208
too and if i just go on

1250
01:41:25,208 --> 01:41:25,916
for a second you're like

1251
01:41:25,916 --> 01:41:28,000
you know connections i've made decades

1252
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:29,250
ago i still keep in touch

1253
01:41:29,250 --> 01:41:30,208
with they'll send me something

1254
01:41:30,208 --> 01:41:31,416
they haven't they go i haven't seen this

1255
01:41:31,416 --> 01:41:32,458
i've never seen this before

1256
01:41:32,458 --> 01:41:33,500
and sometimes that's where

1257
01:41:33,500 --> 01:41:35,833
i find some of my lost sharks yeah that's

1258
01:41:35,833 --> 01:41:39,041
true some yeah for sure so it's

1259
01:41:39,041 --> 01:41:39,708
interesting too because

1260
01:41:39,750 --> 01:41:42,041
i guess this this kind of takes off and

1261
01:41:42,041 --> 01:41:42,916
you start to see more

1262
01:41:42,916 --> 01:41:45,375
identifications by these groups and

1263
01:41:45,375 --> 01:41:47,291
maybe they end up teaching you know other

1264
01:41:47,291 --> 01:41:48,500
other people that they know

1265
01:41:48,500 --> 01:41:49,625
that are in the water a lot

1266
01:41:49,625 --> 01:41:51,708
and and maybe able to see some of these

1267
01:41:51,708 --> 01:41:54,083
sharks on a regular basis the

1268
01:41:54,083 --> 01:41:56,208
idea here is to start really

1269
01:41:56,208 --> 01:41:58,791
understanding you know the types the

1270
01:41:58,791 --> 01:41:59,750
types of species you'll see

1271
01:41:59,750 --> 01:42:01,000
the number of species you see

1272
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:03,208
the size the health and then hopefully

1273
01:42:03,208 --> 01:42:05,125
eventually get to a point where you can

1274
01:42:05,125 --> 01:42:05,958
include that not only

1275
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:07,791
in research and share it with the world

1276
01:42:07,791 --> 01:42:11,000
but also in national policies for

1277
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:12,000
fisheries to ensure that

1278
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:13,833
these are managed correctly you know

1279
01:42:13,833 --> 01:42:16,125
reducing bycatch understanding that

1280
01:42:16,125 --> 01:42:17,000
sharks are important what

1281
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:19,375
they bring to you know from the diving

1282
01:42:19,375 --> 01:42:21,083
community perspective as an

1283
01:42:21,083 --> 01:42:23,625
ecotourism uh attraction and

1284
01:42:23,625 --> 01:42:25,875
and so forth i think that's it's really

1285
01:42:25,875 --> 01:42:27,625
important as we start to move forward

1286
01:42:27,625 --> 01:42:28,916
with this and is that

1287
01:42:29,083 --> 01:42:31,875
really like the long-term goal of of

1288
01:42:31,875 --> 01:42:32,875
doing workshops like

1289
01:42:32,875 --> 01:42:34,833
these yeah yeah exactly that's

1290
01:42:34,875 --> 01:42:36,333
that's exactly what they're there for

1291
01:42:36,333 --> 01:42:37,958
just to start them and they

1292
01:42:37,958 --> 01:42:39,708
say i tried to i think you know

1293
01:42:39,708 --> 01:42:40,916
a lot of young people tend to get you

1294
01:42:40,916 --> 01:42:42,000
know because they're starting out they

1295
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:42,625
know like well what do i

1296
01:42:42,625 --> 01:42:44,583
do how do i go i want to have some impact

1297
01:42:44,583 --> 01:42:45,500
especially a lot of

1298
01:42:45,500 --> 01:42:47,041
younger generations today or more

1299
01:42:47,166 --> 01:42:48,416
don't you know don't have a lot of

1300
01:42:48,416 --> 01:42:49,583
patience they want to like something

1301
01:42:49,583 --> 01:42:51,375
impactful and i did talk

1302
01:42:51,375 --> 01:42:53,041
say i talked quite a bit to several of

1303
01:42:53,041 --> 01:42:54,666
them there about just developing

1304
01:42:54,666 --> 01:42:55,541
something as a checklist

1305
01:42:55,541 --> 01:42:57,416
that you guys could co-author you know a

1306
01:42:57,416 --> 01:42:58,333
bunch a bunch of them could

1307
01:42:58,333 --> 01:43:00,125
co-author and you know some of

1308
01:43:00,125 --> 01:43:01,416
the ones i've done in other countries

1309
01:43:01,416 --> 01:43:02,458
they've literally become

1310
01:43:02,458 --> 01:43:04,125
right away they're useful

1311
01:43:04,666 --> 01:43:06,291
they'll be used right away by by

1312
01:43:06,291 --> 01:43:08,000
policymakers like here it

1313
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:09,708
is this is and so that's an

1314
01:43:09,875 --> 01:43:11,791
so that's something they could see very

1315
01:43:11,791 --> 01:43:13,458
tangible on the short on a

1316
01:43:13,458 --> 01:43:15,458
shorter term um you know maybe

1317
01:43:15,541 --> 01:43:16,708
you know they could they could do

1318
01:43:16,708 --> 01:43:17,625
something there so i'll be

1319
01:43:17,625 --> 01:43:18,666
interested to see if some of them

1320
01:43:18,833 --> 01:43:20,125
you know i talked to ivy a little bit

1321
01:43:20,125 --> 01:43:21,333
about it too we may do

1322
01:43:21,333 --> 01:43:23,125
something there but i think getting

1323
01:43:23,125 --> 01:43:25,250
some of these young people see having

1324
01:43:25,250 --> 01:43:26,458
them see like hey i can do

1325
01:43:26,458 --> 01:43:27,291
something here that would have

1326
01:43:27,291 --> 01:43:29,500
an impact that'll be important that'll be

1327
01:43:29,500 --> 01:43:31,000
huge yeah that'd be huge

1328
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:32,916
well this is wonderful i i

1329
01:43:33,166 --> 01:43:34,875
do appreciate you and ivy coming on the

1330
01:43:34,875 --> 01:43:37,291
podcast to be able to show this and

1331
01:43:37,291 --> 01:43:38,041
obviously you know deep

1332
01:43:38,041 --> 01:43:39,541
sea sharks were covered in as you

1333
01:43:39,541 --> 01:43:41,166
mentioned you know hopefully in the

1334
01:43:41,166 --> 01:43:42,291
future you'll see a picture

1335
01:43:42,291 --> 01:43:43,791
and somebody like i don't even know what

1336
01:43:43,791 --> 01:43:44,583
this is you're like well

1337
01:43:44,583 --> 01:43:45,833
i've never seen this either or

1338
01:43:45,833 --> 01:43:47,125
this is something we've been looking for

1339
01:43:47,125 --> 01:43:48,041
in the area for quite some

1340
01:43:48,041 --> 01:43:49,500
time and looking for these

1341
01:43:49,500 --> 01:43:51,583
lost sharks and speaking of which uh dave

1342
01:43:51,583 --> 01:43:52,625
will you have a series that

1343
01:43:52,625 --> 01:43:53,875
we've both been working on

1344
01:43:54,208 --> 01:43:56,250
that people can go see uh can you just

1345
01:43:56,250 --> 01:43:57,000
tell us a little bit about

1346
01:43:57,000 --> 01:43:58,125
that and where they can go see it

1347
01:43:58,375 --> 01:44:00,583
yeah they can go to uh on my youtube

1348
01:44:00,583 --> 01:44:01,916
channel at lost shark guy

1349
01:44:01,916 --> 01:44:04,166
and the series is searching for

1350
01:44:04,166 --> 01:44:06,791
lost sharks extinct or alive that uh

1351
01:44:06,791 --> 01:44:07,666
andrew and i've been working

1352
01:44:07,666 --> 01:44:09,291
on and with dennis sota maior

1353
01:44:09,333 --> 01:44:11,666
who's done the uh did the filming and

1354
01:44:11,666 --> 01:44:13,083
it's a it's funded by the

1355
01:44:13,083 --> 01:44:15,291
save our seas foundation and it's

1356
01:44:15,291 --> 01:44:17,333
basically to raise awareness on a on a

1357
01:44:17,333 --> 01:44:19,000
larger platform through

1358
01:44:19,000 --> 01:44:22,083
through uh the youtube uh of

1359
01:44:22,125 --> 01:44:23,958
people these these little these little

1360
01:44:23,958 --> 01:44:25,250
known sharks that may be disappearing

1361
01:44:25,250 --> 01:44:26,291
without people realizing

1362
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:29,041
and uh so i really appreciate people go

1363
01:44:29,041 --> 01:44:31,541
out watch the episodes you know check out

1364
01:44:31,541 --> 01:44:32,875
check out our episodes and if you like

1365
01:44:32,875 --> 01:44:33,750
them please subscribe

1366
01:44:33,750 --> 01:44:35,125
that all helps with uh

1367
01:44:35,416 --> 01:44:37,000
you know trying to get future support for

1368
01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:38,041
some of these projects to

1369
01:44:38,041 --> 01:44:40,375
do future expeditions and uh

1370
01:44:40,375 --> 01:44:42,166
these lost sharks find more of them and

1371
01:44:42,166 --> 01:44:43,666
we're working on we're working on episode

1372
01:44:43,666 --> 01:44:45,583
five right now so it'll be out hopefully

1373
01:44:45,583 --> 01:44:47,333
the end of the year early 2026

1374
01:44:47,625 --> 01:44:49,500
yeah it'll be a lot of fun for you guys

1375
01:44:49,500 --> 01:44:51,333
see it i have to admit we've had a lot of

1376
01:44:51,333 --> 01:44:53,041
collaborations from from various

1377
01:44:53,333 --> 01:44:55,291
uh institutes and so forth and we have

1378
01:44:55,291 --> 01:44:57,875
the imagery we have like not only is the

1379
01:44:57,875 --> 01:45:00,708
nieces uh filming amazing but also the

1380
01:45:00,708 --> 01:45:02,583
imagery that we have and and videos that

1381
01:45:02,583 --> 01:45:04,333
we have of some of these like sharks that

1382
01:45:04,333 --> 01:45:05,833
we that have been searched for have been

1383
01:45:05,833 --> 01:45:07,708
found and so forth that they're amazing

1384
01:45:07,708 --> 01:45:09,583
so i highly recommend that you go there

1385
01:45:09,583 --> 01:45:12,333
about what uh 10 15 minutes if that um

1386
01:45:12,333 --> 01:45:14,666
and so you can uh take a look at them at

1387
01:45:14,666 --> 01:45:17,458
lost shark guy uh on youtube and uh check

1388
01:45:17,458 --> 01:45:19,541
those out put the link in the show notes

1389
01:45:19,541 --> 01:45:21,666
but dave i want to thank you so much for

1390
01:45:21,666 --> 01:45:23,291
doing this again with me and uh and i'll see you next time

1391
01:45:23,333 --> 01:45:23,625
uh thank you so much for joining us today

1392
01:45:23,625 --> 01:45:25,291
and of course thank you to ivy bear more

1393
01:45:25,291 --> 01:45:27,500
who from mar alliance will put the links

1394
01:45:27,500 --> 01:45:30,291
to ivy the organization that ivy works

1395
01:45:30,291 --> 01:45:31,833
for mar alliance uh the great

1396
01:45:31,833 --> 01:45:35,000
organization down in central america and

1397
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:36,708
um yeah something that you gotta check

1398
01:45:36,708 --> 01:45:38,958
out as well so uh thank you very much for

1399
01:45:38,958 --> 01:45:40,916
joining us this has been another episode

1400
01:45:40,916 --> 01:45:42,750
of the beyond job podcast from david and

1401
01:45:42,750 --> 01:45:44,250
i thank you for joining us we hope you

1402
01:45:44,250 --> 01:45:45,875
have a great day and happy conservation