Guitarfish Genetics and Culture in Mexico: Bryan Huerta’s Journey Into Shark Science

1
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,166
On this episode of

2
01:00:01,166 --> 01:00:02,875
the Beyond Jaws podcast,

3
01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:04,250
we're going to be

4
01:00:04,250 --> 01:00:05,625
talking about guitar fish.

5
01:00:05,625 --> 01:00:06,208
We're going to be talking

6
01:00:06,208 --> 01:00:07,875
about genetics of guitar fish,

7
01:00:08,625 --> 01:00:10,000
cultural significance

8
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:11,916
of guitar fish in Mexico,

9
01:00:11,916 --> 01:00:12,375
cause we're going to be

10
01:00:12,375 --> 01:00:15,125
talking to Brian Huerta Beltran

11
01:00:15,500 --> 01:00:16,791
on this episode, talk about

12
01:00:16,791 --> 01:00:18,875
his career and his journey,

13
01:00:19,208 --> 01:00:19,791
but we're also going to

14
01:00:19,791 --> 01:00:20,500
be talking about sharks.

15
01:00:20,750 --> 01:00:21,625
It's going to be a lot of fun.

16
01:00:21,958 --> 01:00:22,625
Let's start the show.

17
01:00:23,166 --> 01:00:23,458
Hey everybody,

18
01:00:23,458 --> 01:00:24,958
welcome back to another exciting episode

19
01:00:25,083 --> 01:00:26,250
of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

20
01:00:26,500 --> 01:00:27,833
I'm your co-host Andrew Lewin,

21
01:00:27,833 --> 01:00:30,166
here with my co-host Dr. David Ebert.

22
01:00:31,125 --> 01:00:32,458
Dave, this is a fun

23
01:00:32,458 --> 01:00:33,583
episode because, you know,

24
01:00:33,583 --> 01:00:34,541
it's been a while since we

25
01:00:34,541 --> 01:00:35,583
talked about guitar fish.

26
01:00:35,916 --> 01:00:36,333
You know, we did

27
01:00:36,333 --> 01:00:38,375
symposium along a long time ago

28
01:00:38,375 --> 01:00:40,041
with the wedge fish and the guitar fish,

29
01:00:40,041 --> 01:00:41,208
but we also talked about

30
01:00:41,208 --> 01:00:42,333
guitar fish over the years,

31
01:00:42,333 --> 01:00:43,208
but it's been a little bit

32
01:00:43,208 --> 01:00:44,291
since we've talked about guitar

33
01:00:44,291 --> 01:00:45,916
fishing. Brian brought the

34
01:00:45,916 --> 01:00:47,291
knowledge and brought the fun.

35
01:00:47,625 --> 01:00:48,375
So this is going to be

36
01:00:48,375 --> 01:00:49,083
an interesting episode.

37
01:00:49,541 --> 01:00:50,416
No, I'm looking forward to it.

38
01:00:50,416 --> 01:00:51,000
You know, he was,

39
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:52,208
we're going to have Mon.

40
01:00:52,208 --> 01:00:56,291
We did the symposium, which I can't

41
01:00:56,291 --> 01:00:57,625
believe it's been four years now.

42
01:00:57,666 --> 01:00:59,625
He was just, he was just starting really

43
01:00:59,625 --> 01:01:02,166
getting into his masters at the time.

44
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:03,583
And he said, well, why

45
01:01:03,583 --> 01:01:04,791
don't you wade Lee finishes up.

46
01:01:05,500 --> 01:01:07,250
And so here we are four

47
01:01:07,250 --> 01:01:09,000
years later, he's finished up.

48
01:01:09,416 --> 01:01:10,791
He's going to be going on to do his PhD

49
01:01:10,791 --> 01:01:12,375
and we'll learn here more about that.

50
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:14,500
And, uh, it was great. It was,

51
01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:16,500
I'm glad we waited cause it was a way you

52
01:01:16,500 --> 01:01:18,000
had a lot more information to share

53
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,166
with us than he probably

54
01:01:19,166 --> 01:01:20,416
would have four years ago.

55
01:01:20,916 --> 01:01:22,333
And just so you people are reminded,

56
01:01:22,625 --> 01:01:24,583
he was one of the students that we had

57
01:01:24,583 --> 01:01:26,250
helped us behind the scenes a lot on

58
01:01:26,291 --> 01:01:28,833
the, uh, on the, uh, episode on the

59
01:01:28,833 --> 01:01:31,375
symposium, which is in November of 2021.

60
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:33,500
And go back and check out those podcasts.

61
01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:35,708
If you get a chance to be a lot about a

62
01:01:35,708 --> 01:01:36,833
lot of information, a wedgefish,

63
01:01:36,833 --> 01:01:39,458
guitar fish, um, giant guitar fish.

64
01:01:39,458 --> 01:01:41,916
It was quite a, quite a thing at the time

65
01:01:41,916 --> 01:01:43,541
and a lot of information.

66
01:01:43,541 --> 01:01:45,000
And you can find out what people are up

67
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:45,958
to and maybe follow

68
01:01:45,958 --> 01:01:46,750
along on their careers,

69
01:01:46,958 --> 01:01:47,875
see where they're at now.

70
01:01:47,875 --> 01:01:49,833
Yeah. You know, I still, I still remember

71
01:01:49,833 --> 01:01:52,333
recording those episodes, uh, for the,

72
01:01:52,458 --> 01:01:53,833
for the, uh, guitar

73
01:01:53,833 --> 01:01:54,750
and wedgefish symposium.

74
01:01:54,958 --> 01:01:56,541
We, if people don't remember,

75
01:01:56,541 --> 01:01:58,333
we would do about three or four guests

76
01:01:58,333 --> 01:02:01,416
per episode, but 20 to 25 minutes each.

77
01:02:01,416 --> 01:02:03,750
Uh, they were, they were like information

78
01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:05,875
packed episodes and with,

79
01:02:05,875 --> 01:02:07,791
with phenomenal people and researchers

80
01:02:07,791 --> 01:02:10,166
from literally all over the world.

81
01:02:10,750 --> 01:02:12,791
Uh, but, uh, it was, it was

82
01:02:12,791 --> 01:02:14,500
a lot of work to do those.

83
01:02:14,500 --> 01:02:16,416
And was it 10 episodes? I think, I think

84
01:02:16,416 --> 01:02:18,458
it was something like that. Yeah.

85
01:02:18,458 --> 01:02:20,333
And we had about 40 people on, like I

86
01:02:20,333 --> 01:02:21,416
would say different people on,

87
01:02:21,458 --> 01:02:24,041
yeah, people from 20

88
01:02:24,041 --> 01:02:27,041
countries and like 40 people on.

89
01:02:27,041 --> 01:02:29,375
It was just, uh, it was insane, but it

90
01:02:29,375 --> 01:02:30,375
was really informative.

91
01:02:30,375 --> 01:02:32,000
And a lot of fun, a lot of the people

92
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:32,916
were on there from a

93
01:02:32,916 --> 01:02:33,541
lot of the countries.

94
01:02:33,541 --> 01:02:35,041
It was their first time being on a

95
01:02:35,041 --> 01:02:37,333
podcast and it was an international,

96
01:02:37,333 --> 01:02:39,500
quite an international podcast as well.

97
01:02:40,166 --> 01:02:40,916
And I think we had about,

98
01:02:40,916 --> 01:02:43,166
I think we had about 300 people listening

99
01:02:43,166 --> 01:02:44,875
into the podcast, which was a,

100
01:02:45,500 --> 01:02:47,375
for a new, for a new podcast, like we

101
01:02:47,375 --> 01:02:49,500
were at the time. Yeah. We, we,

102
01:02:49,541 --> 01:02:51,375
and it continues to accrue because it's,

103
01:02:51,375 --> 01:02:52,625
people go back and listen to it,

104
01:02:52,625 --> 01:02:53,875
which is great. Yeah. Yeah.

105
01:02:54,083 --> 01:02:55,500
Great to see. And then, you know,

106
01:02:55,500 --> 01:02:57,375
having Brian that that was part of that

107
01:02:57,375 --> 01:02:59,083
who helped organize it.

108
01:02:59,583 --> 01:03:01,333
Now he's talking about his, the guitar

109
01:03:01,333 --> 01:03:03,958
fish and, and his journey, uh, you know,

110
01:03:03,958 --> 01:03:04,500
to getting there,

111
01:03:04,500 --> 01:03:05,958
to going through his masters and all the

112
01:03:05,958 --> 01:03:08,083
other projects that he was a part of and

113
01:03:08,083 --> 01:03:08,625
including, we,

114
01:03:08,625 --> 01:03:09,875
I even got a little bit of a personal

115
01:03:09,875 --> 01:03:11,875
taste of his, his marathon abilities.

116
01:03:12,041 --> 01:03:14,750
Yes. Uh, where, you know, he's, he's, he

117
01:03:14,750 --> 01:03:17,250
wants to break three hours and I can

118
01:03:17,291 --> 01:03:19,083
just imagine it would take me three hours

119
01:03:19,083 --> 01:03:21,875
just to go about five miles,

120
01:03:22,166 --> 01:03:23,750
you know? So just, I could, I could

121
01:03:23,750 --> 01:03:25,083
understand what he's trying to do.

122
01:03:25,458 --> 01:03:26,791
Highly respect it. Don't

123
01:03:26,791 --> 01:03:28,666
want to do it. That's for sure.

124
01:03:31,083 --> 01:03:32,958
It was, it was kind of cool to, to be

125
01:03:32,958 --> 01:03:34,416
able to hear that. Um,

126
01:03:34,416 --> 01:03:35,708
and I think it's, it's a lot of fun. So

127
01:03:35,708 --> 01:03:37,666
here is the interview with,

128
01:03:37,958 --> 01:03:39,916
with Brian who had to bell trend and

129
01:03:39,916 --> 01:03:41,958
talking about his career and his marathon

130
01:03:42,041 --> 01:03:43,750
running. It's a lot of fun, enjoy. And

131
01:03:43,750 --> 01:03:46,208
we'll talk to you after. Hey, Brian,

132
01:03:46,250 --> 01:03:48,541
welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast. Are

133
01:03:48,541 --> 01:03:50,291
you ready to talk about sharks?

134
01:03:51,333 --> 01:03:53,000
Yes. I'm ready to talk about shark. I'm

135
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:54,083
looking forward to it.

136
01:03:54,583 --> 01:03:56,791
Love it. Love it. All right. Well,

137
01:03:56,791 --> 01:03:59,000
welcome to another Beyond Jaws podcast

138
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,708
where we have another rising star in the

139
01:04:00,708 --> 01:04:02,000
shark world with our

140
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:03,250
awesome guest, Brian,

141
01:04:03,250 --> 01:04:05,291
where to Beltran who recently finished

142
01:04:05,291 --> 01:04:07,083
his MSC at the university of Southern

143
01:04:07,166 --> 01:04:08,375
Mississippi under the

144
01:04:08,375 --> 01:04:10,250
guidance of Dr. Nicole Phillips,

145
01:04:10,583 --> 01:04:11,375
who's also been a guest

146
01:04:11,375 --> 01:04:12,750
on the podcast in the past.

147
01:04:13,291 --> 01:04:14,958
Brian was born and raised in Mexico city,

148
01:04:15,416 --> 01:04:16,666
but after completing high school,

149
01:04:16,666 --> 01:04:18,208
he went to, uh, wanted to pursue his

150
01:04:18,208 --> 01:04:20,083
English as a second language and went to

151
01:04:20,083 --> 01:04:21,958
Boston, Massachusetts, which was an

152
01:04:21,958 --> 01:04:22,666
important transition

153
01:04:22,666 --> 01:04:23,375
for him at the beginning

154
01:04:23,375 --> 01:04:25,041
of his educational journey in the United

155
01:04:25,041 --> 01:04:27,125
States in 2019 here,

156
01:04:27,583 --> 01:04:28,791
Brian earned his bachelor's of science

157
01:04:28,791 --> 01:04:31,125
degree in conservation and wildlife at a

158
01:04:31,125 --> 01:04:32,583
place I've never heard of before.

159
01:04:32,916 --> 01:04:34,416
Delaware Valley university,

160
01:04:34,666 --> 01:04:36,666
which is in some place called Doylestown,

161
01:04:36,666 --> 01:04:38,708
Pennsylvania. If you're from Doylestown,

162
01:04:38,708 --> 01:04:39,916
please don't get upset. I've just never

163
01:04:39,916 --> 01:04:41,208
heard of you. I'm from California,

164
01:04:42,291 --> 01:04:44,750
but, uh, but his academic pursuits

165
01:04:44,750 --> 01:04:45,583
eventually led him to

166
01:04:45,583 --> 01:04:47,083
Mississippi state university.

167
01:04:47,083 --> 01:04:49,458
Uh, the Marine fisheries ecology program

168
01:04:49,458 --> 01:04:51,500
in Biloxi where he worked with, uh,

169
01:04:51,500 --> 01:04:53,375
Marcus Dryman, uh, who's

170
01:04:53,375 --> 01:04:54,708
hasn't been on the podcast yet.

171
01:04:54,708 --> 01:04:55,916
And I've got to get ahold of him to find

172
01:04:55,916 --> 01:04:58,291
out why he hasn't podcast yet. Dammit.

173
01:04:59,041 --> 01:04:59,708
Marcus, I'll be in

174
01:04:59,708 --> 01:05:01,166
touch with you. Um, anyway,

175
01:05:01,166 --> 01:05:02,416
over the next couple of years,

176
01:05:02,791 --> 01:05:04,500
Brian participated in a number of long

177
01:05:04,500 --> 01:05:05,500
line surveys in the

178
01:05:05,500 --> 01:05:06,416
Northern Gulf of Mexico,

179
01:05:06,791 --> 01:05:07,458
gaining invaluable

180
01:05:07,458 --> 01:05:08,666
experience in marine conservation,

181
01:05:09,458 --> 01:05:11,166
particularly focusing on the LASMO breaks

182
01:05:11,166 --> 01:05:13,375
pursued his passion for allows makes

183
01:05:13,375 --> 01:05:15,791
further by Brian began a master's program

184
01:05:15,791 --> 01:05:17,416
at the university of Southern Mississippi

185
01:05:17,875 --> 01:05:19,416
and Hattiesburg under the guidance I

186
01:05:19,416 --> 01:05:20,833
mentioned of Dr. Nicole Phillips,

187
01:05:21,250 --> 01:05:23,666
his master's thesis, which, uh, which he

188
01:05:23,666 --> 01:05:25,000
worked on guitar fishes that are

189
01:05:25,041 --> 01:05:28,333
marketed as Pez Diablo, which rough,

190
01:05:29,041 --> 01:05:29,708
Pez Diablo, which

191
01:05:29,708 --> 01:05:31,666
translates to devil fish in English.

192
01:05:32,250 --> 01:05:34,083
And he used molecular techniques to

193
01:05:34,083 --> 01:05:34,833
determine the species

194
01:05:34,833 --> 01:05:36,208
identified and speak

195
01:05:36,750 --> 01:05:39,000
his project was also partly supported by

196
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:40,375
the save our seas foundation.

197
01:05:40,708 --> 01:05:42,250
Thanks save our seas, uh,

198
01:05:42,416 --> 01:05:43,791
throughout his academic journeys.

199
01:05:43,791 --> 01:05:45,791
And Brian's engaged in a diverse range of

200
01:05:45,791 --> 01:05:47,958
research projects as a master's students.

201
01:05:48,291 --> 01:05:49,208
He's a author, a

202
01:05:49,208 --> 01:05:51,166
coauthor nine scientific papers.

203
01:05:51,291 --> 01:05:52,625
Wow. That's pretty

204
01:05:52,625 --> 01:05:53,875
amazing for a master's student.

205
01:05:54,208 --> 01:05:55,250
And he continues to

206
01:05:55,250 --> 01:05:57,416
contribute to filling knowledge gaps.

207
01:05:57,791 --> 01:05:59,083
Now his approaches as he's

208
01:05:59,083 --> 01:06:00,166
finished his master's thesis,

209
01:06:00,166 --> 01:06:02,666
he's going to be starting up a PhD

210
01:06:02,666 --> 01:06:04,458
program next year in the Cole's lab.

211
01:06:04,958 --> 01:06:06,000
And we'll hopefully find out a little bit

212
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:06,958
today more about what

213
01:06:06,958 --> 01:06:07,708
he's planning to do.

214
01:06:08,083 --> 01:06:09,583
He's also committed to continuing his

215
01:06:09,583 --> 01:06:10,583
dream of becoming an

216
01:06:10,583 --> 01:06:11,708
Elasmo Brank researcher.

217
01:06:12,583 --> 01:06:14,083
Um, Brian, by the way, he also served as

218
01:06:14,083 --> 01:06:14,958
a student assistant

219
01:06:14,958 --> 01:06:16,250
for the wedge fish and

220
01:06:16,250 --> 01:06:18,291
guitar fish symposium that we did back in

221
01:06:18,291 --> 01:06:19,750
November of 2021 as

222
01:06:19,750 --> 01:06:21,083
part of the a American

223
01:06:21,083 --> 01:06:23,833
Elasmo Brank society symposium. And

224
01:06:23,833 --> 01:06:25,291
Brian's also a marathon runner,

225
01:06:25,291 --> 01:06:26,000
which we'll hopefully hear

226
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:27,166
about a little more about today.

227
01:06:27,541 --> 01:06:28,416
And with all of that,

228
01:06:28,583 --> 01:06:29,541
Brian, welcome to the show.

229
01:06:30,458 --> 01:06:31,333
Uh, thank you. Thank you

230
01:06:31,333 --> 01:06:32,666
so much today for having me.

231
01:06:32,708 --> 01:06:35,416
It's a pleasure to be here.

232
01:06:35,416 --> 01:06:36,583
It's a honor. Thank you so much.

233
01:06:37,375 --> 01:06:39,416
Great. Great. Well, question we always

234
01:06:39,416 --> 01:06:40,375
like to ask our guests is

235
01:06:40,375 --> 01:06:42,416
how'd you get interested in

236
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,375
sharks and rays and marine science?

237
01:06:46,500 --> 01:06:48,541
Well, it's been it's been a while ever

238
01:06:48,541 --> 01:06:50,583
since I was a kid. I always been like,

239
01:06:50,833 --> 01:06:53,416
I love animals. Like I used to have so

240
01:06:53,416 --> 01:06:55,958
many pets as a kid. And

241
01:06:55,958 --> 01:06:57,625
then, um, in high school.

242
01:06:57,625 --> 01:07:03,333
Um, so I'm from Mexico City and we have a

243
01:07:03,333 --> 01:07:05,375
very big fish market

244
01:07:05,375 --> 01:07:06,625
is called Landlava Vega.

245
01:07:06,958 --> 01:07:08,833
So it's supposed to be one of the, it's

246
01:07:08,833 --> 01:07:11,208
supposed to be one of the largest fish

247
01:07:11,208 --> 01:07:12,625
markets in the world.

248
01:07:13,583 --> 01:07:17,500
So for fun, I, I, I like to go to those

249
01:07:17,500 --> 01:07:18,958
fish markets and see like

250
01:07:18,958 --> 01:07:21,041
what species I could find.

251
01:07:21,541 --> 01:07:23,666
And so sharks have always been

252
01:07:23,666 --> 01:07:26,166
interesting because I remember like I,

253
01:07:26,458 --> 01:07:28,208
I used to have the sharks of the world

254
01:07:28,208 --> 01:07:30,333
from Campanio. I think it's

255
01:07:30,333 --> 01:07:32,791
2005 that little field guide.

256
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:35,875
I used to go there to the fish markets

257
01:07:35,875 --> 01:07:40,666
and try to find like different sharks. So

258
01:07:41,958 --> 01:07:44,500
as I started like digging more into all

259
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:46,750
like different species I could find,

260
01:07:47,166 --> 01:07:49,875
I started realizing that we don't know

261
01:07:49,875 --> 01:07:51,958
for that much for many species.

262
01:07:52,916 --> 01:07:56,666
So that's what it like fired me to like

263
01:07:56,666 --> 01:07:58,750
start studying like marine biology.

264
01:07:59,916 --> 01:08:02,916
Then, um, so, you know, like in science,

265
01:08:03,208 --> 01:08:04,541
you need to talk

266
01:08:04,541 --> 01:08:07,500
English. So it's like every,

267
01:08:07,500 --> 01:08:09,416
like all papers, everything has to be in

268
01:08:09,416 --> 01:08:10,958
English. So when I

269
01:08:10,958 --> 01:08:11,958
finished my high school,

270
01:08:12,500 --> 01:08:15,083
I didn't speak English at all. Like

271
01:08:15,083 --> 01:08:17,625
nothing. So I decided to go

272
01:08:17,625 --> 01:08:19,333
to, well, I had the opportunity

273
01:08:19,500 --> 01:08:21,875
to go to an English school in Boston,

274
01:08:21,875 --> 01:08:24,916
Massachusetts. There I stay, I stay

275
01:08:24,916 --> 01:08:26,291
there. Like it was like a

276
01:08:26,291 --> 01:08:28,583
year. And then after I finished my

277
01:08:28,583 --> 01:08:30,583
English school, I had the opportunity to

278
01:08:30,583 --> 01:08:32,750
go to that place that

279
01:08:32,750 --> 01:08:34,791
they've mentioned that he doesn't know

280
01:08:34,791 --> 01:08:37,291
what it is. It's called

281
01:08:37,291 --> 01:08:38,916
Delaware Valley University,

282
01:08:39,708 --> 01:08:42,000
where I'm majoring wildlife conservation

283
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:43,791
and management. So I,

284
01:08:43,791 --> 01:08:45,458
I was able to get my

285
01:08:45,541 --> 01:08:48,791
bachelor's degree in science, um, from an

286
01:08:48,791 --> 01:08:52,458
American school after like

287
01:08:52,458 --> 01:08:54,000
taking English as a second

288
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,875
language. And then, um, how, how

289
01:08:56,875 --> 01:08:59,708
difficult was that to go like, you know,

290
01:08:59,708 --> 01:09:02,083
one year taking English from

291
01:09:02,083 --> 01:09:04,791
not speaking English before moving to the

292
01:09:04,791 --> 01:09:06,375
U S learning English in

293
01:09:06,375 --> 01:09:07,791
one year and then going to

294
01:09:07,791 --> 01:09:10,125
a university where I assume it was

295
01:09:10,125 --> 01:09:13,000
predominantly English, like for the

296
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:13,958
coursework. And I mean, how,

297
01:09:14,208 --> 01:09:16,583
how much of a challenge is that for

298
01:09:16,583 --> 01:09:17,541
someone to do that? Cause I,

299
01:09:17,666 --> 01:09:18,541
cause Dave, I'll be honest.

300
01:09:19,083 --> 01:09:21,250
I can't imagine myself going to Mexico

301
01:09:21,250 --> 01:09:22,875
learning Spanish for a

302
01:09:22,875 --> 01:09:25,083
year and then doing, you know,

303
01:09:25,083 --> 01:09:27,416
university in Spanish, like doing

304
01:09:27,416 --> 01:09:30,208
scientific, like a scientific course load

305
01:09:30,208 --> 01:09:32,250
in Spanish for four years.

306
01:09:32,250 --> 01:09:33,583
There's no way I'd be able to succeed at

307
01:09:33,583 --> 01:09:34,500
that. How hard was that

308
01:09:34,500 --> 01:09:36,458
Brian for you? Oh, well, so like,

309
01:09:36,458 --> 01:09:39,375
so when I go to Boston, like it was very

310
01:09:39,375 --> 01:09:42,166
challenging. Um, so my English, it was

311
01:09:42,166 --> 01:09:43,750
very basic at that time.

312
01:09:44,208 --> 01:09:45,875
Yeah, it was just enough to move around,

313
01:09:46,208 --> 01:09:49,041
but, um, I was lucky enough that I also

314
01:09:49,041 --> 01:09:50,666
stay with, uh, like a

315
01:09:50,666 --> 01:09:53,333
host family host. Yeah. Okay. Post

316
01:09:53,333 --> 01:09:56,500
family. Yeah. They were from, from the

317
01:09:56,500 --> 01:09:58,083
area from Massachusetts.

318
01:09:58,458 --> 01:10:01,500
So I was able to, they had, they had a

319
01:10:01,500 --> 01:10:03,000
lot of patience with me.

320
01:10:03,250 --> 01:10:04,708
So eventually I started like

321
01:10:04,708 --> 01:10:06,541
feeling more comfortable and comfortable,

322
01:10:06,541 --> 01:10:08,625
like being able to speak,

323
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,916
but yeah, it was, it was,

324
01:10:12,041 --> 01:10:14,416
it was difficult. Sometimes I was like

325
01:10:14,416 --> 01:10:15,958
about to give up. I was

326
01:10:15,958 --> 01:10:18,166
like, I think, I think I should

327
01:10:18,166 --> 01:10:20,416
just go back. I'm more, it's, you know,

328
01:10:20,416 --> 01:10:22,291
it's more comfortable, like for sure.

329
01:10:22,791 --> 01:10:23,916
It's big in your home

330
01:10:23,916 --> 01:10:26,041
country. And like, don't worry about the

331
01:10:26,041 --> 01:10:28,916
language barrier, but, uh, I

332
01:10:28,916 --> 01:10:30,833
think I came across with the

333
01:10:30,833 --> 01:10:34,583
right people throughout all these bad. So

334
01:10:34,583 --> 01:10:37,125
that helped me. Yeah. It has

335
01:10:37,125 --> 01:10:38,583
helped me to succeed so far.

336
01:10:38,625 --> 01:10:41,458
How can you pick Boston versus like the

337
01:10:41,458 --> 01:10:42,708
Southwest US, like

338
01:10:42,708 --> 01:10:45,666
California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico.

339
01:10:46,416 --> 01:10:49,291
Yeah. So my reasoning behind this, it was

340
01:10:49,291 --> 01:10:51,708
like, I want to be as far from Mexico,

341
01:10:52,625 --> 01:10:55,250
like, because if I go to, if I go to

342
01:10:55,250 --> 01:10:56,583
Texas, there's going to be a

343
01:10:56,583 --> 01:11:00,125
lot of like, uh, Spanish people.

344
01:11:01,041 --> 01:11:03,750
So, I mean, I wanted to practice English

345
01:11:03,750 --> 01:11:05,750
as much as possible, as much

346
01:11:05,750 --> 01:11:07,666
as I could. Okay. Yeah. So I,

347
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,291
I mean, there are Spanish speakers

348
01:11:10,291 --> 01:11:12,708
everywhere. I didn't, I didn't know that

349
01:11:12,708 --> 01:11:14,583
much at that time, but I think Boston, it

350
01:11:14,583 --> 01:11:16,541
was like, okay, Boston seems to be the

351
01:11:16,541 --> 01:11:19,083
farthest from Mexico. It's true. Yeah.

352
01:11:19,166 --> 01:11:20,750
It's pretty fun. Same thing from

353
01:11:20,750 --> 01:11:22,875
California. Like there's, oh

354
01:11:22,875 --> 01:11:24,958
yeah. Oh yeah. No, I, yeah.

355
01:11:25,583 --> 01:11:26,750
I mean, that's what I was thinking too.

356
01:11:26,750 --> 01:11:28,500
If you go, if you're in, if you're in

357
01:11:28,500 --> 01:11:30,000
California, there'd be a lot of Spanish

358
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:31,375
speaking people who could probably help

359
01:11:31,375 --> 01:11:33,041
you out. But I, I see what you mean is

360
01:11:33,041 --> 01:11:35,000
like, put me in a place where I can't

361
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:36,708
speak Spanish as much as I

362
01:11:36,708 --> 01:11:37,958
would like to, to find out.

363
01:11:47,541 --> 01:11:52,583
Yeah. I mean, I think that's, that's a,

364
01:11:53,500 --> 01:11:56,958
that's a, that's a challenge that, uh, I

365
01:11:56,958 --> 01:11:58,750
don't know, sure any, a lot of us can do. So that's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. And then doing a degree too. Yeah. Yeah. And then I got my degree and I, and you know, it's like, it's like mentally tiring too.

366
01:12:07,583 --> 01:12:10,833
Of course. Like trying to translate like,

367
01:12:10,833 --> 01:12:13,041
oh, like from switch from one language to

368
01:12:13,041 --> 01:12:17,041
another. So, but yeah, it's been a whole

369
01:12:17,041 --> 01:12:19,541
journey. How did you, how did you, I got to ask you like, so you're, you go to Boston to do this program, which I can understand getting as far away from states that speak Spanish.

370
01:12:28,916 --> 01:12:33,125
So you're there for a year. And at this

371
01:12:33,125 --> 01:12:34,875
time you want to, you're, you're pretty

372
01:12:34,875 --> 01:12:37,333
much dialed in. You want to do marine

373
01:12:37,333 --> 01:12:40,083
science and sharks at this point. Yeah.

374
01:12:40,083 --> 01:12:40,333
Well, at this point, I wanted to do more something more. Yeah. More with conservation and management.
Like I didn't care particularly because I always wanted to do more conservation and management.

375
01:12:49,416 --> 01:12:51,083
So I wanted to focus with animals, but it's still like I was like, whether

376
01:12:51,083 --> 01:12:53,208
marine biology or something with, um, or

377
01:12:53,208 --> 01:12:54,375
herpetology or something. Yeah,

378
01:12:54,375 --> 01:12:56,500
herpetology, but still I'm like very

379
01:12:56,500 --> 01:12:58,000
interested in like in management. And

380
01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:58,958
like where I mentioned, like in going to the fish market, I think more conservation and management.

381
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:00,708
was like whether marine biology or

382
01:13:00,708 --> 01:13:02,083
something with... Or

383
01:13:02,083 --> 01:13:03,375
herpetology or something. Yeah,

384
01:13:03,375 --> 01:13:05,000
herpetology. But still I'm like very

385
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,416
interested in like in management and

386
01:13:07,416 --> 01:13:09,083
like what I mentioned like in like the

387
01:13:09,083 --> 01:13:10,875
going to the fish market you can see

388
01:13:10,875 --> 01:13:14,708
like why it's important. So okay okay

389
01:13:14,708 --> 01:13:16,250
being a fishing nerd I have to ask you

390
01:13:16,250 --> 01:13:18,000
about the the fish market question

391
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:18,958
because I've been to a lot of fish

392
01:13:18,958 --> 01:13:21,291
markets around the world. Is it the fish

393
01:13:21,291 --> 01:13:23,708
market in Mexico? I've heard it's a big

394
01:13:23,708 --> 01:13:26,458
one but I haven't been there but I've

395
01:13:26,458 --> 01:13:28,500
been to some like the Tokyo one

396
01:13:28,541 --> 01:13:30,750
which is massive. Yeah, it's the right.

397
01:13:31,500 --> 01:13:33,750
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

398
01:13:33,875 --> 01:13:34,041
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

399
01:13:34,041 --> 01:13:35,791
you can spend days walking around it.

400
01:13:35,791 --> 01:13:39,166
It's huge. The one in Mexico is it is is

401
01:13:39,166 --> 01:13:40,708
the fish that come in there is it just

402
01:13:40,708 --> 01:13:42,416
from Mexican waters or is it from

403
01:13:42,500 --> 01:13:45,750
international as well? It is mostly

404
01:13:45,750 --> 01:13:50,208
probably like probably 90% from Mexico

405
01:13:50,333 --> 01:13:52,250
but from the Mexican-exclusive economic

406
01:13:52,250 --> 01:13:55,125
zone. So like from the Pacific and also

407
01:13:55,208 --> 01:13:56,500
like the Gulf of Mexico and the

408
01:13:56,500 --> 01:13:58,000
Caribbean. I think

409
01:13:58,000 --> 01:13:59,625
sometimes they get sharks

410
01:13:59,625 --> 01:14:03,083
pretty much like body trunks already

411
01:14:03,083 --> 01:14:05,625
could be also from it could be also from

412
01:14:05,625 --> 01:14:11,041
the US or from Central America too. Okay,

413
01:14:11,041 --> 01:14:12,750
because Mexico is a pretty they're a

414
01:14:12,750 --> 01:14:15,500
shark fishing eating country. Yeah, we

415
01:14:15,500 --> 01:14:18,750
eat a lot of shark like as Cassone. Yeah,

416
01:14:18,791 --> 01:14:22,000
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

417
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,041
so so well, okay, so you're up there. So

418
01:14:24,041 --> 01:14:25,291
you're ahead. You were going to the fish

419
01:14:25,291 --> 01:14:26,708
markets, which is great to do. I think

420
01:14:26,708 --> 01:14:28,291
every every kid should do that in my

421
01:14:28,291 --> 01:14:31,875
mind, but that's my opinion. But but what

422
01:14:31,875 --> 01:14:34,250
you so how did you pick? I have to

423
01:14:34,250 --> 01:14:37,000
add how did you pick Delaware Valley

424
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:41,375
University University in Pennsylvania? So

425
01:14:41,375 --> 01:14:44,500
at that time, so that time I was in my

426
01:14:44,541 --> 01:14:47,375
girlfriend. Ah, woman's involved. Okay.

427
01:14:47,541 --> 01:14:49,333
Yeah, a girlfriend was involved my ex

428
01:14:49,333 --> 01:14:52,541
girlfriend. Yeah, of course. Yeah, she

429
01:14:52,541 --> 01:14:55,000
she's from Massachusetts, but she was

430
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:56,833
like, Oh, look at this school is like is

431
01:14:56,833 --> 01:15:00,041
still nearby Massachusetts. There's only

432
01:15:00,041 --> 01:15:03,833
like five hours away from Pennsylvania.

433
01:15:04,416 --> 01:15:07,291
Yeah. So that's like the like the main

434
01:15:07,291 --> 01:15:09,375
reason and the program is like it was

435
01:15:09,375 --> 01:15:11,791
very unique. Like it's called like

436
01:15:11,791 --> 01:15:13,375
wildlife management and

437
01:15:13,375 --> 01:15:14,500
conservation. So there's

438
01:15:14,500 --> 01:15:17,125
not really that many universities they

439
01:15:17,125 --> 01:15:20,500
offer such program. So that's what like,

440
01:15:21,083 --> 01:15:22,958
sold me like I was like, Okay, that

441
01:15:22,958 --> 01:15:25,708
sounds like a good idea. And also what I

442
01:15:25,708 --> 01:15:28,416
like it a lot of this university was like

443
01:15:28,416 --> 01:15:31,333
it was it's a really small university. So

444
01:15:31,333 --> 01:15:34,416
pretty much like, in my classroom, I was

445
01:15:34,416 --> 01:15:37,041
basically the only international student.

446
01:15:38,375 --> 01:15:40,083
The rest of them, they were like from the

447
01:15:40,083 --> 01:15:41,958
US. So that was also like a

448
01:15:41,958 --> 01:15:43,291
little more challenging to

449
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,708
Yeah, yeah, not having a lot of students.

450
01:15:45,916 --> 01:15:48,000
Yeah, I'm sure if I was back East, I'd

451
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:49,333
probably be more familiar with it. I just

452
01:15:49,333 --> 01:15:51,916
didn't know it didn't know anything about

453
01:15:51,916 --> 01:15:53,625
her when his program was it. Did you have

454
01:15:53,625 --> 01:15:54,916
a good time was a good school there?

455
01:15:55,458 --> 01:15:58,875
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was wonderful. I got

456
01:15:58,875 --> 01:16:00,375
like great professors and

457
01:16:00,500 --> 01:16:04,250
I got like a like the since the classes

458
01:16:04,250 --> 01:16:07,041
were really small to like they were like

459
01:16:07,041 --> 01:16:09,541
that many students involved. Probably

460
01:16:09,541 --> 01:16:13,750
like about 30 students 20s. Yeah. So it

461
01:16:13,750 --> 01:16:16,541
was good like to like you get to meet

462
01:16:16,541 --> 01:16:19,541
them. Well, you're right. Okay, okay. So

463
01:16:19,541 --> 01:16:20,958
I think that was also like really

464
01:16:20,958 --> 01:16:24,250
important for my like growth to right

465
01:16:24,250 --> 01:16:28,000
right. So you finished up there. Did you

466
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,500
were so how so what was your so you finished up there? Yeah, yeah.

467
01:16:29,500 --> 01:16:31,250
So what was your so you finished you got

468
01:16:31,250 --> 01:16:33,250
your college degree and then you're yeah,

469
01:16:33,250 --> 01:16:36,625
so what so when when you finish when you

470
01:16:36,625 --> 01:16:38,958
like get a degree in the US you you have

471
01:16:38,958 --> 01:16:41,500
an opportunity that is called OPT is

472
01:16:41,500 --> 01:16:44,750
called optional practice training is a

473
01:16:44,750 --> 01:16:49,458
visa. So you can work for one year or two

474
01:16:49,458 --> 01:16:52,875
years depending on your major, but it has

475
01:16:52,875 --> 01:16:54,500
to be related with your field, right?

476
01:16:55,500 --> 01:16:59,041
So so I apply for that after I finished

477
01:16:59,041 --> 01:17:02,958
my I got my degree and I saw that

478
01:17:02,958 --> 01:17:05,750
internship opportunity in Mississippi

479
01:17:05,750 --> 01:17:09,291
State University with Dr. Marcus Raimond

480
01:17:09,291 --> 01:17:12,916
and I'm one of the requirements. He was

481
01:17:12,916 --> 01:17:15,250
like being comfortable to dissecting

482
01:17:15,250 --> 01:17:17,500
sharks like like being okay with that.

483
01:17:17,500 --> 01:17:21,958
I was like, this is easy like this is I

484
01:17:21,958 --> 01:17:24,458
do that all the time when I in Mexico at

485
01:17:24,458 --> 01:17:28,958
the fish market and like I know that so I

486
01:17:28,958 --> 01:17:32,333
remember I was like I'm gonna apply to

487
01:17:32,333 --> 01:17:34,083
this internship and see what happens

488
01:17:34,083 --> 01:17:35,500
really that was only my option.

489
01:17:35,500 --> 01:17:40,833
I put a lot in that application a lot of

490
01:17:40,833 --> 01:17:43,541
effort and I was like, okay, I'm gonna

491
01:17:43,541 --> 01:17:46,250
I'm gonna go for it and hopefully and see

492
01:17:46,250 --> 01:17:48,625
what happens. And I also remember email

493
01:17:48,625 --> 01:17:52,416
email Marcus telling hey like I I've been

494
01:17:52,416 --> 01:17:54,625
at the fish market like how I have all

495
01:17:54,625 --> 01:17:56,500
like like this experience and so on.

496
01:17:56,500 --> 01:18:01,625
So eventually I got the internship and

497
01:18:01,625 --> 01:18:05,000
that was wonderful because then I was I

498
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:07,875
was an intern with Marcus who does a lot

499
01:18:07,875 --> 01:18:11,000
of the shock research in the in the North

500
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:13,791
and Gulf of Mexico, which I was able to

501
01:18:13,791 --> 01:18:15,041
learn a lot to their.

502
01:18:15,500 --> 01:18:18,500
Yeah. Okay, cool. Okay. So you were so

503
01:18:18,500 --> 01:18:20,625
you're working along there. Were you at

504
01:18:20,625 --> 01:18:22,500
that point? Did you have any idea what

505
01:18:22,500 --> 01:18:23,291
you're going to do after

506
01:18:23,291 --> 01:18:25,458
that? Are you just on skills?

507
01:18:26,500 --> 01:18:28,208
Yeah, no, I mean, I know I know I wanted

508
01:18:28,208 --> 01:18:30,541
to get my master's degree and I know I

509
01:18:30,541 --> 01:18:33,333
wanted to focus on sharks like okay, that

510
01:18:33,333 --> 01:18:35,625
was like my my goal like and

511
01:18:35,625 --> 01:18:37,541
I knew I wanted to do that.

512
01:18:37,875 --> 01:18:40,125
How did what was it was a point you said

513
01:18:40,125 --> 01:18:42,416
like I'm going to do sharks. Was there

514
01:18:42,416 --> 01:18:45,500
any? So low or is it one big thing? He's

515
01:18:45,500 --> 01:18:48,500
like, what's that say? Was it was it

516
01:18:48,500 --> 01:18:50,541
something you slowly came to or was it

517
01:18:50,541 --> 01:18:51,791
just you decide one day

518
01:18:51,791 --> 01:18:52,500
I'm going to do sharks?

519
01:18:53,833 --> 01:18:55,958
No, it was like after like going to the

520
01:18:55,958 --> 01:18:58,166
fish markets. I started like, okay, like

521
01:18:58,166 --> 01:19:00,291
having a passion with like with sharks

522
01:19:00,291 --> 01:19:02,291
pretty much like realizing that I think I

523
01:19:02,291 --> 01:19:04,541
was getting good at identifying

524
01:19:04,541 --> 01:19:07,208
recognizing many species.

525
01:19:08,500 --> 01:19:11,333
Okay. And then I started realizing

526
01:19:11,333 --> 01:19:14,125
realizing that the fish market it was

527
01:19:14,125 --> 01:19:16,541
like it was a wonder wonderful resource

528
01:19:16,541 --> 01:19:19,250
to see like so many species.

529
01:19:19,500 --> 01:19:21,833
Yeah, for example, so many species that

530
01:19:21,833 --> 01:19:24,041
they're prohibited in the US. They are

531
01:19:24,041 --> 01:19:27,333
not in Mexico. So I have like access to

532
01:19:27,333 --> 01:19:33,041
so many stuff. Yeah. So you went to so

533
01:19:33,041 --> 01:19:34,583
you went to work with Marcus for a couple

534
01:19:34,583 --> 01:19:36,833
of years. Yeah, learned

535
01:19:36,833 --> 01:19:37,500
a lot of skills there.

536
01:19:37,500 --> 01:19:41,041
Yeah, so we used to do like bottom long

537
01:19:41,041 --> 01:19:45,166
line strolling got the opportunity to tag

538
01:19:45,166 --> 01:19:50,208
tag sharks and work up sharks like they

539
01:19:50,208 --> 01:19:53,166
do a lot of measurements of vertebra like

540
01:19:53,166 --> 01:19:55,958
they do a lot of like age and growth

541
01:19:55,958 --> 01:19:58,958
studies. So I got a yeah, I

542
01:19:58,958 --> 01:19:59,500
got some experience there.

543
01:19:59,500 --> 01:20:03,916
And then I knew I wanted to do sharks and

544
01:20:03,916 --> 01:20:05,833
I always like I said, I mean, like more

545
01:20:05,833 --> 01:20:07,750
focused kind of like in taxonomy to kind

546
01:20:07,750 --> 01:20:11,208
of. And I remember talking with Marcus

547
01:20:11,208 --> 01:20:14,708
and I think we both agree that I think it

548
01:20:14,708 --> 01:20:16,250
would be really useful to also

549
01:20:16,250 --> 01:20:21,541
incorporate genetics in my knowledge and

550
01:20:21,541 --> 01:20:25,000
in my set skills because because it could

551
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:25,500
be very useful for taxonomy too.

552
01:20:25,500 --> 01:20:26,333
Yeah.

553
01:20:28,625 --> 01:20:31,166
He he Marcus, I think like in the shark

554
01:20:31,166 --> 01:20:35,666
world is crazy like everyone is super

555
01:20:35,666 --> 01:20:38,833
interconnected everyone knows everyone so

556
01:20:38,833 --> 01:20:44,833
Marcus knows Nicole and then he put a war

557
01:20:44,833 --> 01:20:48,000
on me and on the economy and then Nicole

558
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:51,791
took me as her master student and then I

559
01:20:51,791 --> 01:20:53,125
started learning genetics.

560
01:20:53,958 --> 01:20:58,291
Okay, okay. Okay. And so, so you started

561
01:20:58,291 --> 01:21:00,291
in your project there. So what did how

562
01:21:00,291 --> 01:21:03,875
did you how did you come up with this

563
01:21:03,875 --> 01:21:05,750
this project you talk about

564
01:21:05,750 --> 01:21:06,500
the project you developed.

565
01:21:06,500 --> 01:21:09,000
Yeah, yeah, with the past. Also, I mean,

566
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,000
like, you know, like guitar fishes have

567
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:14,000
been a conservation concern. Well, like

568
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:16,416
it's getting like more popular as, as you

569
01:21:16,416 --> 01:21:19,333
know, I think that big paper from I think

570
01:21:19,333 --> 01:21:23,541
it's all like the 2016 is like our guitar

571
01:21:23,541 --> 01:21:25,583
fish is the next selfish

572
01:21:25,583 --> 01:21:28,041
is you know what paper what?

573
01:21:28,291 --> 01:21:31,083
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was it I thought it

574
01:21:31,083 --> 01:21:33,166
came out maybe I think it's 2016.

575
01:21:33,875 --> 01:21:36,125
See, you know, 14. I don't know. It's

576
01:21:36,125 --> 01:21:37,291
something like that. It's like somewhere

577
01:21:37,291 --> 01:21:41,416
over there. But yeah, basically, yeah. Go

578
01:21:41,416 --> 01:21:44,625
ahead. I remember going. So, like when I

579
01:21:44,625 --> 01:21:48,291
was a child going to Veracruz, that's a

580
01:21:48,291 --> 01:21:50,708
Mexican state in the Gulf of Mexico.

581
01:21:51,875 --> 01:21:54,958
And they used to sell this modified

582
01:21:54,958 --> 01:21:57,125
guitar fishes. So in Mexico, they got

583
01:21:57,125 --> 01:21:59,833
guitar fishes to look like devils like

584
01:21:59,833 --> 01:22:04,166
Pezia. Well, like alien likes. So I

585
01:22:04,166 --> 01:22:06,541
remember sitting at a souvenir stand. And

586
01:22:06,541 --> 01:22:10,541
I remember, I told Marcus like, well, in

587
01:22:10,541 --> 01:22:12,416
Mexico, we have like this type of trade

588
01:22:12,416 --> 01:22:14,541
that I think no one has

589
01:22:14,541 --> 01:22:15,791
ever really documented.

590
01:22:16,500 --> 01:22:19,208
So I started thinking more like trying to

591
01:22:19,208 --> 01:22:22,416
find likes doing more research. And yeah,

592
01:22:22,416 --> 01:22:25,416
like there is literally there is only

593
01:22:25,416 --> 01:22:27,583
like really short accounts that people

594
01:22:27,583 --> 01:22:31,333
caught in modifying just modifying the

595
01:22:31,333 --> 01:22:33,166
guitar fishes to look like Pezia.

596
01:22:34,416 --> 01:22:39,041
So, so in Mexico, we have we have many I

597
01:22:39,041 --> 01:22:41,208
think support supposedly we have eight

598
01:22:41,208 --> 01:22:44,375
species of guitar fishes from the genus

599
01:22:44,375 --> 01:22:47,416
of the vatas. I mean, the distribution is

600
01:22:47,416 --> 01:22:50,416
still like it's still the taxonomy as I

601
01:22:50,416 --> 01:22:53,000
mentioned, it's still a lot is a lot

602
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:54,500
needs to be done in that group, but

603
01:22:54,500 --> 01:22:59,291
I didn't define the guitar fishes that

604
01:22:59,291 --> 01:23:01,583
they are motivated is almost like really

605
01:23:01,583 --> 01:23:04,000
hard because like they remove like

606
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:07,333
morphological characteristics. So

607
01:23:07,333 --> 01:23:10,833
genetics, that was like the perfect

608
01:23:10,833 --> 01:23:13,416
methodology to identify to

609
01:23:13,416 --> 01:23:15,500
the species level. So I end up

610
01:23:16,500 --> 01:23:20,583
collecting several pays Diablo, like

611
01:23:20,583 --> 01:23:24,333
modify guitar fishes and and use genetics

612
01:23:24,333 --> 01:23:27,041
to identify which species are being

613
01:23:27,041 --> 01:23:31,458
traded. Yeah. So, so what's the you might

614
01:23:31,458 --> 01:23:32,708
have said this already. I'm just trying

615
01:23:32,708 --> 01:23:36,125
to understand like what's the is it like

616
01:23:36,125 --> 01:23:40,000
a cultural thing these these. Yeah. So,

617
01:23:41,125 --> 01:23:42,625
so I mean, this tradition.

618
01:23:42,625 --> 01:23:44,500
So the very first record from

619
01:23:44,500 --> 01:23:48,083
modified modified guitar fish can be

620
01:23:48,083 --> 01:23:53,416
traced from the 1930s. But people people

621
01:23:53,416 --> 01:23:55,666
do it for mostly two reasons. One, like

622
01:23:55,666 --> 01:23:59,250
as I joke, like a hoax, like, oh, look,

623
01:23:59,291 --> 01:24:01,458
this because they look like aliens, they

624
01:24:01,458 --> 01:24:03,041
look like devils. Yeah, because the

625
01:24:03,041 --> 01:24:05,458
nerves and the mouth, like, I'll send you

626
01:24:05,458 --> 01:24:09,333
some pictures. But yeah, they look. And

627
01:24:09,333 --> 01:24:11,875
another. So in Mexico, another reason is

628
01:24:11,875 --> 01:24:13,500
they use it for alternative medicine.

629
01:24:13,500 --> 01:24:19,375
They they sell it like to cure cancer or

630
01:24:19,375 --> 01:24:23,500
treatise like like other like this is I

631
01:24:23,500 --> 01:24:28,000
mean, it's like I don't think it works

632
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:31,541
right but just so people understand. In

633
01:24:31,541 --> 01:24:34,500
fact, once you post this episode here,

634
01:24:34,500 --> 01:24:36,166
we'll post some pictures of this. So

635
01:24:36,166 --> 01:24:38,000
yeah, yeah, I'll send you some pictures.

636
01:24:38,291 --> 01:24:40,666
I've seen this, but it's basically they

637
01:24:40,666 --> 01:24:43,500
dry the guitar fish, correct? Yeah. So they're like, I'm not sure.

638
01:24:43,500 --> 01:24:46,291
They well first they they remove like the

639
01:24:46,291 --> 01:24:49,125
rock, you know, the Russell Cartilage. So

640
01:24:49,125 --> 01:24:51,250
they remove the Russell Cartilage and

641
01:24:51,250 --> 01:24:55,416
some they caught several parts of the

642
01:24:55,416 --> 01:24:59,125
body and they they try them. Okay, so

643
01:24:59,125 --> 01:25:01,500
once they dry, they look like devils or

644
01:25:01,500 --> 01:25:03,833
like a little alien. Is it mostly just

645
01:25:03,833 --> 01:25:06,958
the head or the whole body? They modify

646
01:25:06,958 --> 01:25:09,541
the whole body. Okay, okay. Yeah, mostly

647
01:25:09,541 --> 01:25:11,166
seen the heads, but I didn't know that.

648
01:25:11,166 --> 01:25:12,125
So it's the whole body they

649
01:25:12,125 --> 01:25:12,500
dry. So yeah, I think they dry.

650
01:25:12,500 --> 01:25:15,791
So yeah, let's sit. Can I just stop for a

651
01:25:15,791 --> 01:25:18,125
second here? Is it so they don't eat the

652
01:25:18,125 --> 01:25:22,458
meat at all then? So so for a when the

653
01:25:22,458 --> 01:25:24,125
when they sell it for alternative

654
01:25:24,125 --> 01:25:28,375
medicine, they grind the drive guitar

655
01:25:28,375 --> 01:25:31,458
fish. They grind it and they pull it up.

656
01:25:31,666 --> 01:25:35,666
They put the ground meat on pills on

657
01:25:35,666 --> 01:25:39,166
pills. Yeah, they do. Yeah. Yeah, it was.

658
01:25:39,541 --> 01:25:41,250
It was very interesting. And as I

659
01:25:41,250 --> 01:25:42,500
mentioned before, like, I think it's a good idea to

660
01:25:42,500 --> 01:25:45,375
like I think no one has really looked

661
01:25:45,375 --> 01:25:48,375
into that. I I've never heard that with

662
01:25:48,375 --> 01:25:50,291
with those. I've seen them and I knew

663
01:25:50,291 --> 01:25:52,166
they were a little bit had more of like a

664
01:25:52,166 --> 01:25:54,458
like you said, like a joke kind of like a

665
01:25:54,458 --> 01:25:56,375
joke. Yeah. So yeah, you can find them

666
01:25:56,375 --> 01:25:58,875
sometimes here in the like on eBay or

667
01:25:58,875 --> 01:26:02,125
Etsy. They call them also Jenny

668
01:26:02,125 --> 01:26:04,375
Honeyverse. They go by the name Jenny.

669
01:26:04,583 --> 01:26:06,125
Jenny. Yeah, I've heard that. I've heard

670
01:26:06,125 --> 01:26:08,833
that term and they can sell for some like

671
01:26:08,833 --> 01:26:10,083
here in the United States.

672
01:26:10,083 --> 01:26:12,291
I can sell for a couple like

673
01:26:12,500 --> 01:26:15,750
hundred dollars. Wow. Yeah. Well, how

674
01:26:15,750 --> 01:26:18,708
how's that? So so but if they're going to

675
01:26:18,708 --> 01:26:21,000
use it for medicinal purposes like cancer

676
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:22,875
and stuff, they then they grind it up and

677
01:26:22,875 --> 01:26:24,833
they like cook it like in a soup or

678
01:26:24,833 --> 01:26:26,666
something or a broth. Yeah. So sometimes

679
01:26:26,666 --> 01:26:29,625
sometimes they boil it like the meat or

680
01:26:29,625 --> 01:26:32,250
as I mentioned, they they grind it up and

681
01:26:32,250 --> 01:26:34,541
they they put they put them in on pills.

682
01:26:35,375 --> 01:26:38,458
Mm hmm. Okay. Okay. And then and then

683
01:26:38,458 --> 01:26:40,541
okay. So that's that's on the can. Is

684
01:26:40,541 --> 01:26:41,125
there any particular

685
01:26:41,125 --> 01:26:42,500
cancer or just cancer and

686
01:26:42,500 --> 01:26:45,083
general that's what just said like cancer

687
01:26:45,083 --> 01:26:47,958
like if you go to like so they usually

688
01:26:47,958 --> 01:26:49,958
they sell them like in these traditional

689
01:26:49,958 --> 01:26:53,291
medicine markets where like they sell a

690
01:26:53,291 --> 01:26:55,916
lot of like plants herbs, you know, like

691
01:26:55,916 --> 01:27:00,375
medicinal like alternative stuff. Yeah.

692
01:27:00,625 --> 01:27:02,708
So sometimes they have these dry guitar

693
01:27:02,708 --> 01:27:05,166
fishes and they say, Oh, this is good for

694
01:27:05,166 --> 01:27:09,083
cancer. This is okay. That's that's

695
01:27:09,083 --> 01:27:09,666
pretty interesting.

696
01:27:09,958 --> 01:27:12,333
Yeah. Is it much outside

697
01:27:12,500 --> 01:27:14,666
Mexico? Is it very popular in Latin

698
01:27:14,666 --> 01:27:17,291
America or just mainly Mexico? I think

699
01:27:17,291 --> 01:27:20,791
it's mainly Mexico. Okay. Well, like for

700
01:27:20,791 --> 01:27:22,875
the cancer for cancer or like alternative

701
01:27:22,875 --> 01:27:25,583
medicine purposes. But for like as a

702
01:27:25,583 --> 01:27:28,833
hoax, I've seen them in like in Europe or

703
01:27:28,833 --> 01:27:31,250
like in the US. I think even sometimes in

704
01:27:31,250 --> 01:27:35,041
Canada. But they're not real. Yeah. But

705
01:27:35,041 --> 01:27:37,625
that's more like for people who like who

706
01:27:37,625 --> 01:27:40,166
likes like all these oddities. Right.

707
01:27:40,666 --> 01:27:42,291
Right. Like weird stuff like

708
01:27:42,500 --> 01:27:44,791
yeah, you know, like the Jackalope or

709
01:27:44,791 --> 01:27:47,583
like yeah, yeah, yeah. What what now

710
01:27:47,583 --> 01:27:49,583
because isn't guitar fish generally

711
01:27:49,583 --> 01:27:52,166
considered a preferred meat in Mexico?

712
01:27:52,500 --> 01:27:56,833
Yeah. So the main where I've seen at the

713
01:27:56,833 --> 01:28:02,666
fish market to the the main cows. Yeah,

714
01:28:02,666 --> 01:28:04,125
they're mainly target for their meat.

715
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:06,458
Yeah, but they but they but some of them

716
01:28:06,458 --> 01:28:09,250
get set aside for these for the for the

717
01:28:09,250 --> 01:28:10,750
best Diablo trade is

718
01:28:10,750 --> 01:28:12,125
Diablo trade. Okay. Yeah.

719
01:28:12,500 --> 01:28:14,750
And that so I assume if it gets set aside

720
01:28:14,750 --> 01:28:16,375
for that, it means it's make a little

721
01:28:16,375 --> 01:28:17,791
more money than selling for the meal.

722
01:28:18,083 --> 01:28:19,708
Yeah, that's where I think I mentioned

723
01:28:19,708 --> 01:28:21,875
and I think it was in a safe overseas

724
01:28:21,875 --> 01:28:25,791
law. Okay, so like a guitar fish just

725
01:28:25,791 --> 01:28:28,125
fresh for their meat at the fish market

726
01:28:28,125 --> 01:28:31,625
in Mexico can go for maybe like $2. Okay,

727
01:28:31,916 --> 01:28:34,625
well, I love pays the Diablo in Mexico,

728
01:28:34,625 --> 01:28:38,416
they can sell for maybe like $20, $20,

729
01:28:38,416 --> 01:28:42,166
$20. So there is there's a huge revenue.

730
01:28:43,041 --> 01:28:46,791
Okay, okay. That's how is it to because

731
01:28:46,791 --> 01:28:48,500
there's a lot of concern with guitar

732
01:28:48,500 --> 01:28:51,666
fishes and everything how to say if they

733
01:28:51,666 --> 01:28:53,708
ship them to the US or they export them

734
01:28:53,708 --> 01:28:57,666
at all. How is that with cities and all

735
01:28:57,666 --> 01:29:00,041
this stuff now with guitar? Yeah, so I

736
01:29:00,041 --> 01:29:03,875
think we just I published my first paper

737
01:29:03,875 --> 01:29:08,208
about this type of trade because like we

738
01:29:08,208 --> 01:29:10,000
don't really know like

739
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:11,791
the extent of international

740
01:29:13,291 --> 01:29:18,333
trade. But like there is accounts of

741
01:29:18,333 --> 01:29:20,833
people also selling modified guitar

742
01:29:20,833 --> 01:29:24,041
fishes in London. But this I think that's

743
01:29:24,041 --> 01:29:26,500
from the 70s or 80s something like that.

744
01:29:27,125 --> 01:29:29,333
But I mean, like the guitar they just got

745
01:29:29,333 --> 01:29:31,875
recently, I think it was 2023 when they

746
01:29:31,875 --> 01:29:34,791
got all the family on their side is yeah,

747
01:29:35,125 --> 01:29:39,041
so it was important to to know this trade

748
01:29:39,041 --> 01:29:40,541
also exists because

749
01:29:40,541 --> 01:29:42,083
it's been like under the

750
01:29:42,083 --> 01:29:45,375
radar for so long. As I mentioned, like

751
01:29:45,375 --> 01:29:48,083
the first record of a modified guitar

752
01:29:48,083 --> 01:29:52,625
fish is from the 1930s. Wow. Okay, okay.

753
01:29:52,625 --> 01:29:55,166
So yeah, so it goes back. So it goes back

754
01:29:55,166 --> 01:29:57,541
quite a ways and stuff. So are you so

755
01:29:57,541 --> 01:30:00,375
when you go to the when you go to the

756
01:30:00,375 --> 01:30:03,375
markets, say in Mexico or even places in

757
01:30:03,375 --> 01:30:04,708
the US where they sell these things, you

758
01:30:04,708 --> 01:30:06,333
try to identify them

759
01:30:06,333 --> 01:30:07,416
to the species at all?

760
01:30:08,250 --> 01:30:11,041
Yeah, I tried to do like a my like an

761
01:30:11,041 --> 01:30:14,000
educated guess, depending of like certain

762
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:16,416
morphological characteristics available.

763
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:20,583
But so for my project, I was able to,

764
01:30:20,583 --> 01:30:23,875
like I mentioned, collect many tissue

765
01:30:23,875 --> 01:30:27,666
samples. And we brought them to the US

766
01:30:27,666 --> 01:30:29,375
and that was before all the scientists

767
01:30:29,583 --> 01:30:31,916
regulations. So I was very lucky to get

768
01:30:31,916 --> 01:30:34,541
samples here. Because now it's like super

769
01:30:34,541 --> 01:30:38,250
hard with all the new import. And I think

770
01:30:38,250 --> 01:30:40,500
I was telling you, Andrew, yeah,

771
01:30:41,625 --> 01:30:45,791
paperwork. But yeah, so, and then I so I

772
01:30:45,791 --> 01:30:49,875
create, I create my own genetic reference

773
01:30:49,875 --> 01:30:51,666
library of all guitar

774
01:30:51,666 --> 01:30:52,500
features of the genius

775
01:30:52,833 --> 01:30:56,833
cedubatus. Oh, wow. Because, as I

776
01:30:56,833 --> 01:30:58,041
mentioned, it's like a whole

777
01:30:58,041 --> 01:31:00,208
taxonomically, it's been like a lot of

778
01:31:00,208 --> 01:31:04,333
misidentifications. Yeah. So how do you

779
01:31:04,333 --> 01:31:06,208
do that? How do you make a genetic

780
01:31:06,208 --> 01:31:09,625
library of an entire genius? Well, so I

781
01:31:09,625 --> 01:31:12,458
was, so I was very interested in target

782
01:31:12,458 --> 01:31:14,958
is called some mitochondrial gene is

783
01:31:14,958 --> 01:31:18,500
called the end it to. Okay. So I target

784
01:31:18,500 --> 01:31:21,333
these, this gene is from the mom.

785
01:31:22,208 --> 01:31:25,541
And usually is really good for taxonomic

786
01:31:25,541 --> 01:31:28,000
purposes, like that gene.

787
01:31:30,041 --> 01:31:32,833
So I was able to from actually from

788
01:31:32,833 --> 01:31:34,250
people from Ecuador, you

789
01:31:34,250 --> 01:31:35,500
know, I've ran a survey is

790
01:31:36,250 --> 01:31:37,833
Yeah, I think you were with the dryness

791
01:31:37,833 --> 01:31:40,291
of I is from Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

792
01:31:40,291 --> 01:31:42,791
Like she helped me. And I

793
01:31:42,791 --> 01:31:44,250
think some people from Peru to

794
01:31:44,458 --> 01:31:47,250
Yeah, I was like from many people from

795
01:31:47,250 --> 01:31:51,583
different people from Latin America and

796
01:31:51,583 --> 01:31:55,000
Mexico, we collect all the known guitar

797
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:59,541
fish samples from all non guitar

798
01:31:59,666 --> 01:32:02,416
fishes from the genius cedubatus. And,

799
01:32:02,416 --> 01:32:06,041
and then with primers, I amplify the ND

800
01:32:06,041 --> 01:32:08,916
two. So it's kind of like, and then you

801
01:32:08,916 --> 01:32:11,083
get kind of like, you get a sequence. So

802
01:32:11,083 --> 01:32:13,291
it's kind of like a barcode. Yeah, so

803
01:32:13,291 --> 01:32:15,416
it's, and you can tell it's species a

804
01:32:15,416 --> 01:32:19,166
species b, species c, etc. Right? Yeah.

805
01:32:19,166 --> 01:32:22,083
So once I have that genetic reference

806
01:32:22,083 --> 01:32:26,541
library, I extract also the DNA DNA from

807
01:32:26,541 --> 01:32:27,666
my Pezi of the samples.

808
01:32:27,666 --> 01:32:29,541
So I was able to match

809
01:32:30,375 --> 01:32:33,666
which species they belong to.

810
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:35,208
Did you have to have a number of

811
01:32:35,208 --> 01:32:38,375
different individuals for each species to

812
01:32:38,375 --> 01:32:40,708
ensure that that was the DNA code that

813
01:32:40,708 --> 01:32:41,875
you that that was like

814
01:32:41,875 --> 01:32:43,208
specific to that species?

815
01:32:44,250 --> 01:32:47,000
Yeah, yeah. So I collect like at least I

816
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:49,208
think was like a minimum of four

817
01:32:49,208 --> 01:32:50,583
individuals per species.

818
01:32:51,083 --> 01:32:51,291
Okay.

819
01:32:52,041 --> 01:32:52,583
Yeah, gotcha.

820
01:32:53,041 --> 01:32:54,666
And also, like I asked them to take

821
01:32:54,666 --> 01:32:57,875
pictures to, of course. Yeah. Yeah. So I

822
01:32:57,875 --> 01:32:59,041
have also like photographic.

823
01:32:59,708 --> 01:33:02,500
That's all because yeah, I wanted to make

824
01:33:02,500 --> 01:33:05,083
sure that was the right identification.

825
01:33:06,166 --> 01:33:08,833
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, that's

826
01:33:08,833 --> 01:33:11,000
amazing. You got into doing that,

827
01:33:11,250 --> 01:33:13,833
especially at a master's level, you had

828
01:33:13,833 --> 01:33:15,625
enough foresight to think about doing

829
01:33:15,625 --> 01:33:18,791
basically in a set up a

830
01:33:18,791 --> 01:33:20,833
genetic database of these things.

831
01:33:20,875 --> 01:33:22,750
Yeah, because like literally we don't

832
01:33:22,750 --> 01:33:24,291
like for many species, we don't really

833
01:33:24,291 --> 01:33:27,833
have any genetic data for for various

834
01:33:27,833 --> 01:33:30,083
pieces of the genus of the vatus. Right.

835
01:33:30,458 --> 01:33:32,000
And now that they are protected on their

836
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:34,416
side is is like essential to have these

837
01:33:34,416 --> 01:33:39,416
databases. Yeah. That's that's that's

838
01:33:39,416 --> 01:33:41,208
incredible. It's amazing. You got that.

839
01:33:41,208 --> 01:33:44,416
You got that set up. So so so you got so

840
01:33:44,416 --> 01:33:46,708
you get this thing set up. Now you do you

841
01:33:46,708 --> 01:33:48,541
do you monitor what goes on in some of

842
01:33:48,541 --> 01:33:49,541
the other countries like in

843
01:33:49,541 --> 01:33:50,833
Central and South America?

844
01:33:50,875 --> 01:33:51,333
Yeah, that's great, but it's very much as

845
01:33:51,333 --> 01:33:53,875
far as if they are doing any similar. No,

846
01:33:54,500 --> 01:33:56,625
so the right now, just this is that was

847
01:33:56,625 --> 01:34:00,041
just for my thesis, I would like to try

848
01:34:00,041 --> 01:34:03,250
to identify identify which piece of

849
01:34:03,250 --> 01:34:06,750
guitar fishes are sold in the US because

850
01:34:06,750 --> 01:34:10,000
so what I saw for my masters the ones

851
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:12,166
that are sold especially in Mexico are

852
01:34:12,166 --> 01:34:14,291
all just from the genus of the vatus

853
01:34:14,291 --> 01:34:15,625
which makes sense, right?

854
01:34:16,250 --> 01:34:18,375
Because they're from Mexico.

855
01:34:21,125 --> 01:34:23,291
Did you ever get any of

856
01:34:23,291 --> 01:34:25,416
the banjo guitar fish,

857
01:34:25,416 --> 01:34:25,833
the Zaptrix?

858
01:34:27,416 --> 01:34:27,875
Zaptrix?

859
01:34:30,333 --> 01:34:32,083
No, I didn't get any Zaptrix.

860
01:34:32,833 --> 01:34:33,125
Okay.

861
01:34:33,500 --> 01:34:34,916
Yeah, no, but also

862
01:34:34,916 --> 01:34:37,250
those are really far apart,

863
01:34:37,250 --> 01:34:38,541
like genetically they're like--

864
01:34:38,583 --> 01:34:39,791
Oh yeah, I know, but I

865
01:34:39,791 --> 01:34:40,875
guess the reason I was asking is

866
01:34:40,916 --> 01:34:42,416
because they, would they

867
01:34:42,416 --> 01:34:43,291
be something they would use

868
01:34:43,291 --> 01:34:44,875
for the PES Dablo?

869
01:34:46,125 --> 01:34:48,833
Yeah, I haven't encountered one Zaptrix

870
01:34:49,416 --> 01:34:50,375
Really? Yeah.

871
01:34:51,125 --> 01:34:54,083
I would-- I have that question too, if

872
01:34:54,083 --> 01:34:55,666
like someone has made a

873
01:34:55,666 --> 01:34:57,333
PES Dablo based on a Zaptrix.

874
01:34:57,750 --> 01:34:59,125
And so far I haven't seen one.

875
01:34:59,625 --> 01:35:02,208
So all my samples

876
01:35:02,208 --> 01:35:03,916
turned out to be Sudobatus.

877
01:35:04,375 --> 01:35:05,916
All Sudobatus, okay. Yeah.

878
01:35:05,958 --> 01:35:09,625
Okay, that's interesting in itself.

879
01:35:09,625 --> 01:35:10,916
I mean, if you're got, just for people to

880
01:35:10,916 --> 01:35:11,750
understand your home like

881
01:35:11,750 --> 01:35:13,250
this other genus Zaptrix,

882
01:35:13,250 --> 01:35:15,250
I mean, they're different than the guitar

883
01:35:15,250 --> 01:35:17,000
fish, but they're similar,

884
01:35:17,625 --> 01:35:18,625
they're different, but they have a

885
01:35:18,625 --> 01:35:19,750
similar sort of shape.

886
01:35:19,750 --> 01:35:21,083
Like morphotype, I

887
01:35:21,083 --> 01:35:22,333
guess. Morphotype, yeah.

888
01:35:22,500 --> 01:35:24,625
They call them Banjo guitar fish, the

889
01:35:24,625 --> 01:35:25,875
common name for them.

890
01:35:26,083 --> 01:35:28,500
And so I was kind of curious, and I know

891
01:35:28,500 --> 01:35:29,500
they catch a lot of those,

892
01:35:30,333 --> 01:35:31,125
at least in the Gulf of

893
01:35:31,125 --> 01:35:32,333
California and on the Pacific.

894
01:35:32,458 --> 01:35:34,250
Oh yeah, yeah. I've seen

895
01:35:34,250 --> 01:35:35,666
them in the fish market too.

896
01:35:37,166 --> 01:35:38,166
I know they used to use them in fish

897
01:35:38,166 --> 01:35:40,208
tacos in La Paz, but I don't know.

898
01:35:40,250 --> 01:35:41,958
Oh really? Oh yeah.

899
01:35:42,958 --> 01:35:44,541
I hate to say, but they were pretty good

900
01:35:44,541 --> 01:35:45,625
eating, but if you like.

901
01:35:45,625 --> 01:35:50,916
I try guitar fish and the meat is okay.

902
01:35:51,666 --> 01:35:53,625
Yeah, it's pretty, I don't, I'm not

903
01:35:53,625 --> 01:35:55,208
embarrassed to say I'm older than you.

904
01:35:55,625 --> 01:35:57,541
I'm past whatever, it's like

905
01:35:57,541 --> 01:35:58,833
they're pretty good eating.

906
01:35:59,375 --> 01:36:04,958
Sorry, but yeah, I'll say it,

907
01:36:04,958 --> 01:36:05,666
you don't have to, but yeah.

908
01:36:06,500 --> 01:36:10,083
So are there any, so you got all this,

909
01:36:10,083 --> 01:36:11,083
you've been working, you're getting to

910
01:36:11,083 --> 01:36:12,583
develop this database,

911
01:36:12,625 --> 01:36:14,541
all the guitar, and it's all pseudo-beta,

912
01:36:14,541 --> 01:36:16,083
so there's no other, and other than the

913
01:36:16,083 --> 01:36:21,708
Zap tricks, there's no other guitar fish.

914
01:36:22,833 --> 01:36:24,416
So the ones I got from

915
01:36:24,416 --> 01:36:26,083
Mexico, they're all pseudo-vatas.

916
01:36:27,458 --> 01:36:31,166
I'm interested, like, so in the US,

917
01:36:31,166 --> 01:36:32,458
remember I was telling you that they can

918
01:36:32,458 --> 01:36:36,125
be also found, like here, like in eBay or

919
01:36:36,125 --> 01:36:37,375
Etsy, like in different markets?

920
01:36:37,666 --> 01:36:40,750
So here is different, I

921
01:36:40,750 --> 01:36:43,000
think there are also rhino-vatas.

922
01:36:43,666 --> 01:36:44,541
I think like some are

923
01:36:44,541 --> 01:36:45,541
coming from the Philippines.

924
01:36:47,541 --> 01:36:50,166
Okay. So that's also very,

925
01:36:51,500 --> 01:36:53,708
like something I would like to do.

926
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:56,625
Yeah, do you think, why do you think the

927
01:36:56,625 --> 01:36:58,625
Philippines versus say West Africa?

928
01:37:00,041 --> 01:37:02,541
Because the Philippines and Indonesia, I

929
01:37:02,541 --> 01:37:05,833
think way back before all the CITES

930
01:37:05,833 --> 01:37:11,041
stuff, and they used to be a big explorer

931
01:37:11,041 --> 01:37:13,583
country to the US for the courier trade.

932
01:37:14,500 --> 01:37:16,500
Like a lot, like if you go to a souvenir

933
01:37:16,500 --> 01:37:19,791
store, like a beach town, like you can

934
01:37:19,791 --> 01:37:22,333
see shark jaws, sometimes I used to sell

935
01:37:22,333 --> 01:37:22,625
them like souvenirs.

936
01:37:23,625 --> 01:37:26,708
You can see many species from like the

937
01:37:26,708 --> 01:37:28,916
Indo-Pacific and all like this area.

938
01:37:29,208 --> 01:37:32,791
Okay, okay. That's actually pretty

939
01:37:32,791 --> 01:37:34,916
interesting that, I would have thought

940
01:37:34,916 --> 01:37:38,416
West Africa would have been a possible

941
01:37:38,416 --> 01:37:39,833
place where you might get stuff in.

942
01:37:39,833 --> 01:37:41,750
I didn't even think about the Philippines

943
01:37:41,750 --> 01:37:44,416
or Indonesia going into Indonesia.

944
01:37:44,666 --> 01:37:50,500
They used to be like back then, they used

945
01:37:50,500 --> 01:37:52,500
to be a big importer

946
01:37:52,500 --> 01:37:54,791
for the shark curio trade.

947
01:37:55,625 --> 01:37:57,958
Yeah, Philippines is definitely for the

948
01:37:57,958 --> 01:38:01,666
shark curio trade. Yeah, definitely. I

949
01:38:01,666 --> 01:38:03,500
definitely agree with that.

950
01:38:03,916 --> 01:38:05,625
I've seen that here in California, so I

951
01:38:05,625 --> 01:38:07,625
know I can speak to that firsthand.

952
01:38:07,666 --> 01:38:11,208
Yeah. The PES Diablo, I grew up in a

953
01:38:11,208 --> 01:38:14,541
fairly Hispanic community here in central

954
01:38:14,541 --> 01:38:17,416
California, and so I have actually seen

955
01:38:17,416 --> 01:38:18,583
some here in this area.

956
01:38:19,041 --> 01:38:20,875
Yeah, I was wondering, did you ever see

957
01:38:20,875 --> 01:38:22,541
them in California? Because I think

958
01:38:22,541 --> 01:38:26,041
there's only a little report that some

959
01:38:26,041 --> 01:38:28,166
people mention in California sometimes

960
01:38:28,166 --> 01:38:29,625
they'll sell them as souvenirs.

961
01:38:30,333 --> 01:38:32,791
Yeah, well I say I grew up in the Salinas

962
01:38:32,791 --> 01:38:36,791
Valley, which has a lot of migrant

963
01:38:36,791 --> 01:38:38,166
laborers and stuff here,

964
01:38:38,166 --> 01:38:39,333
it's a farming community.

965
01:38:39,958 --> 01:38:41,750
I'd seen them, but I wouldn't say I've

966
01:38:41,750 --> 01:38:43,166
seen them in recent years. I'd seen them

967
01:38:43,166 --> 01:38:45,166
more when I was growing up, going to

968
01:38:45,166 --> 01:38:46,500
school, like high school and stuff.

969
01:38:46,708 --> 01:38:48,791
I'd see them, and I thought those were

970
01:38:48,791 --> 01:38:50,833
kind of weird or curious what they were.

971
01:38:51,833 --> 01:38:53,500
And I remember them talking about being,

972
01:38:53,958 --> 01:38:56,416
and they, yeah, so I

973
01:38:56,416 --> 01:38:57,625
kind of knew what they were.

974
01:38:57,625 --> 01:38:59,541
But I can't say I've seen them in recent

975
01:38:59,541 --> 01:39:01,583
years, but when I was growing up, I'd be

976
01:39:01,583 --> 01:39:02,458
over at a friend's house

977
01:39:02,458 --> 01:39:03,791
or something, I'd see them.

978
01:39:04,833 --> 01:39:07,125
And so I kind of a little bit more of the

979
01:39:07,125 --> 01:39:09,791
sort of the Halloween type or day of the

980
01:39:09,791 --> 01:39:11,708
dead type of practical

981
01:39:11,708 --> 01:39:13,958
joke, which was useful for.

982
01:39:14,875 --> 01:39:17,208
So, but yeah, so that was obviously back

983
01:39:17,208 --> 01:39:20,750
seventies, early eighties timeframe, not

984
01:39:20,750 --> 01:39:22,625
way before your time.

985
01:39:22,666 --> 01:39:26,250
But yeah, I was aware of them, but I just

986
01:39:26,250 --> 01:39:28,208
didn't, I didn't know much about them

987
01:39:28,208 --> 01:39:31,208
other than I just, I knew people that

988
01:39:31,208 --> 01:39:34,458
had, they were either from Mexico or they

989
01:39:34,458 --> 01:39:35,958
had Mexican heritage.

990
01:39:36,208 --> 01:39:37,125
Some of them were second or third

991
01:39:37,125 --> 01:39:40,083
generation Mexican American, but I'd seen

992
01:39:40,083 --> 01:39:41,750
those before. So that was kind of an

993
01:39:41,750 --> 01:39:44,416
interesting, but I learned more today

994
01:39:44,416 --> 01:39:44,625
from you than I actually knew about them.

995
01:39:44,625 --> 01:39:48,125
I never thought to look into them. It's

996
01:39:48,125 --> 01:39:49,583
almost in a way. It sounded like he's

997
01:39:49,583 --> 01:39:52,958
almost like a type of a similar to like a

998
01:39:52,958 --> 01:39:54,333
shark fin trade where they got these

999
01:39:54,333 --> 01:39:57,291
things being traded around, but nobody

1000
01:39:57,291 --> 01:39:59,000
really pays any attention to them.

1001
01:39:59,416 --> 01:40:02,750
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so

1002
01:40:02,750 --> 01:40:04,375
you got, so you got all this stuff done.

1003
01:40:04,375 --> 01:40:05,625
Now you're, you're, you're busy

1004
01:40:05,625 --> 01:40:06,625
publishing your thesis and congratulations. By the way, we got nine papers.

1005
01:40:07,625 --> 01:40:11,208
Thank you. That's good. Nine papers out

1006
01:40:11,208 --> 01:40:12,083
of a master's thesis?

1007
01:40:13,500 --> 01:40:15,958
No. So I got nine papers throughout my

1008
01:40:15,958 --> 01:40:18,083
master's because I got the opportunity to

1009
01:40:18,083 --> 01:40:19,833
work in other like side projects.

1010
01:40:19,833 --> 01:40:22,583
That's amazing. But yeah, he was like so

1011
01:40:22,583 --> 01:40:25,166
far nine papers and we have two more, a

1012
01:40:25,166 --> 01:40:28,458
train in review and then so.

1013
01:40:28,458 --> 01:40:30,958
So how many of those, how many of those

1014
01:40:30,958 --> 01:40:32,000
are the first author on?

1015
01:40:33,125 --> 01:40:33,625
I think three or four. Okay. Good for you. That's good.

1016
01:40:33,625 --> 01:40:40,666
That's pretty good. That's not bad. Yeah.

1017
01:40:40,833 --> 01:40:42,541
I mean, you got a couple more coming.

1018
01:40:42,958 --> 01:40:43,625
That's, that's amazing. Congratulations. That's hard work. That's really good. Thank you so much.

1019
01:40:43,666 --> 01:40:50,833
Having all the stuff. So, so, so with all

1020
01:40:50,833 --> 01:40:52,583
your stuff now with this, with all this

1021
01:40:52,583 --> 01:40:54,916
information you gathered, what do you,

1022
01:40:54,916 --> 01:40:56,500
what are you looking to do with this? Now

1023
01:40:56,500 --> 01:40:57,916
you're going to write some, you're going

1024
01:40:57,916 --> 01:41:02,833
to make any, um, your stuff can be able

1025
01:41:02,833 --> 01:41:04,166
to be able to use for any conservation

1026
01:41:04,166 --> 01:41:05,625
purposes for either the Mexican government or

1027
01:41:05,625 --> 01:41:10,500
Yeah. So I mean, so first like having all

1028
01:41:10,500 --> 01:41:14,416
these genetic database, like once it gets

1029
01:41:14,416 --> 01:41:17,208
published, my thesis is going to be

1030
01:41:17,208 --> 01:41:18,750
available like in, uh,

1031
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:20,625
like in public databases.

1032
01:41:20,666 --> 01:41:26,541
So people can will be able to use this

1033
01:41:26,541 --> 01:41:30,875
data to try to track like guitar fish

1034
01:41:30,875 --> 01:41:33,166
products now that they are related

1035
01:41:33,166 --> 01:41:36,375
internationally because I think one

1036
01:41:36,375 --> 01:41:38,125
problem is like this guitar fishes are

1037
01:41:38,125 --> 01:41:40,625
also so in Mexico, they are sold like in beach towns.

1038
01:41:40,666 --> 01:41:46,166
I can buy high, like get right all these

1039
01:41:46,166 --> 01:41:48,458
areas and a bunch of tourists. Sometimes

1040
01:41:48,458 --> 01:41:50,541
they buy them like a souvenir and they

1041
01:41:50,541 --> 01:41:53,750
can now that they probably they can bring

1042
01:41:53,750 --> 01:41:56,500
them overseas and that would be now an

1043
01:41:56,500 --> 01:41:58,541
international violation

1044
01:41:58,541 --> 01:41:59,625
right through the city. Yeah.

1045
01:41:59,625 --> 01:42:02,625
I, I, I don't think the customs guys

1046
01:42:02,625 --> 01:42:04,125
would have any idea what they were

1047
01:42:04,125 --> 01:42:06,333
bringing them back. They'd have no idea.

1048
01:42:06,750 --> 01:42:08,041
And I'm sure most people would have no

1049
01:42:08,041 --> 01:42:10,333
idea that they're illegal to transport

1050
01:42:10,333 --> 01:42:13,708
either. So that'd be, that would be an

1051
01:42:13,708 --> 01:42:15,208
interesting thing. How that, how they

1052
01:42:15,208 --> 01:42:17,583
worked all that stuff out as far as what

1053
01:42:17,583 --> 01:42:18,750
they would, where they would go and what

1054
01:42:18,750 --> 01:42:19,625
they would do with it and stuff.

1055
01:42:19,625 --> 01:42:22,291
So now you got your, so now you got your

1056
01:42:22,291 --> 01:42:24,625
masters wrapped up and everything. I know

1057
01:42:24,625 --> 01:42:26,291
you now, I know you told us here before

1058
01:42:26,291 --> 01:42:27,833
we got on the came on the air. She were,

1059
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:30,125
you've been running marathons and you're

1060
01:42:30,125 --> 01:42:31,500
going to marathon recently.

1061
01:42:32,500 --> 01:42:32,666
Yeah.

1062
01:42:32,916 --> 01:42:35,250
How'd you go ahead?

1063
01:42:35,833 --> 01:42:37,208
Yeah, I just, uh, I just

1064
01:42:37,208 --> 01:42:38,833
ran the Chicago marathon.

1065
01:42:39,458 --> 01:42:40,708
Oh, wow.

1066
01:42:41,375 --> 01:42:42,000
That's awesome.

1067
01:42:42,541 --> 01:42:44,875
It was fantastic. I was so I

1068
01:42:44,875 --> 01:42:46,958
wanted to break three hours.

1069
01:42:47,583 --> 01:42:47,625
Mm hmm.

1070
01:42:48,791 --> 01:42:50,291
I ended up running at

1071
01:42:50,291 --> 01:42:53,458
three hours, 27 seconds.

1072
01:42:54,083 --> 01:42:59,291
Ah, 27, 27 seconds. I've been

1073
01:42:59,291 --> 01:43:01,750
hunted, but it was so close.

1074
01:43:02,708 --> 01:43:05,625
Yeah, to win by you lost by 27 seconds.

1075
01:43:05,666 --> 01:43:08,958
So I wanted to run a soft three hour

1076
01:43:08,958 --> 01:43:11,916
marathon. So that requires you like a

1077
01:43:11,916 --> 01:43:14,500
base of like, I think it's like a six,

1078
01:43:14,500 --> 01:43:18,375
six minutes, 50 seconds per mile.

1079
01:43:19,583 --> 01:43:23,833
Yeah. For 26 miles. So a marathon is 26.2

1080
01:43:23,833 --> 01:43:27,375
miles. So I was very close to break the

1081
01:43:27,375 --> 01:43:31,708
three hours. So only by 20, 27 seconds.

1082
01:43:31,708 --> 01:43:33,791
But yeah, I've been running a lot. I

1083
01:43:33,791 --> 01:43:35,625
think running has been, um,

1084
01:43:36,166 --> 01:43:37,541
you know, like as a, as a master's

1085
01:43:37,541 --> 01:43:40,166
student and like sometimes like to give

1086
01:43:40,166 --> 01:43:42,875
you also like ideas to like refreshing

1087
01:43:42,875 --> 01:43:45,208
because sometimes, you know, research.

1088
01:43:45,625 --> 01:43:46,083
Yeah.

1089
01:43:46,333 --> 01:43:47,708
Sometimes can be really hard. Like

1090
01:43:47,708 --> 01:43:50,041
genetics can be really challenging

1091
01:43:50,041 --> 01:43:52,500
sometimes. And yeah, like having these

1092
01:43:52,500 --> 01:43:55,750
like hobby as a running is also being,

1093
01:43:55,750 --> 01:43:58,500
um, great for, for like.

1094
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:01,083
Did you take up, did you take up the

1095
01:44:01,083 --> 01:44:02,875
running later, kind of later, or was it

1096
01:44:02,875 --> 01:44:03,708
something you'd done earlier?

1097
01:44:04,666 --> 01:44:08,708
Yeah. I started running like two years or

1098
01:44:08,708 --> 01:44:11,000
two years or three years ago. Okay. So

1099
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:12,458
pretty new. Yeah. I start first like

1100
01:44:12,458 --> 01:44:15,875
little by little until like, no, no, this

1101
01:44:15,875 --> 01:44:16,833
is my second marathon.

1102
01:44:17,625 --> 01:44:21,083
Okay. Yeah. So, so did you ever run

1103
01:44:21,083 --> 01:44:22,375
before that or you just sent me, you just

1104
01:44:22,375 --> 01:44:23,625
took up as a grad student?

1105
01:44:24,625 --> 01:44:26,000
During high school, I used to run a

1106
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:27,708
little bit, but it was like short

1107
01:44:27,708 --> 01:44:31,791
distances like five Ks or 10 Ks. Okay.

1108
01:44:31,791 --> 01:44:35,250
You probably say, you probably saved your

1109
01:44:35,250 --> 01:44:36,125
knees a lot of damage

1110
01:44:36,125 --> 01:44:37,125
earlier in your life.

1111
01:44:39,125 --> 01:44:40,958
Because like guys like Andrew and I

1112
01:44:40,958 --> 01:44:42,333
probably used to run, used to run a lot

1113
01:44:42,333 --> 01:44:43,750
earlier in our life. Then we like blew

1114
01:44:43,750 --> 01:44:44,708
out our knees. And so

1115
01:44:44,708 --> 01:44:46,625
like we don't do any more.

1116
01:44:46,666 --> 01:44:48,541
Do you, do you actually used to run or?

1117
01:44:49,083 --> 01:44:50,583
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I used to run like 10

1118
01:44:50,583 --> 01:44:54,208
miles a day for, uh, I was, I wrestled in

1119
01:44:54,208 --> 01:44:56,000
college and we'd have five 30 every

1120
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:57,125
morning. We're out doing our

1121
01:44:57,125 --> 01:44:59,416
10 mile run. Oh nice. Yeah.

1122
01:44:59,791 --> 01:45:03,875
I did not do 10 miles a day. I would run

1123
01:45:03,875 --> 01:45:06,500
when I was, when I was in high school, I

1124
01:45:06,500 --> 01:45:09,458
played offensive line for, for football.

1125
01:45:09,458 --> 01:45:11,916
So we were not known as runners, but I

1126
01:45:11,916 --> 01:45:15,333
did run, but it was maybe like, I was

1127
01:45:15,333 --> 01:45:16,125
doing it in kilometers.

1128
01:45:16,666 --> 01:45:18,833
Maybe like four or five kilometers a day.

1129
01:45:19,500 --> 01:45:21,500
Okay. You know, like a slow pace, but I,

1130
01:45:21,500 --> 01:45:24,916
I ran, still ran. Just not 10 miles a

1131
01:45:24,916 --> 01:45:26,500
day. That's insane. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1132
01:45:26,500 --> 01:45:28,125
That's insane. Yeah.

1133
01:45:29,083 --> 01:45:32,125
Yeah. I kept, I enjoyed running for years

1134
01:45:32,125 --> 01:45:34,000
and years. Then my, my knees, by the time

1135
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:35,625
I got into my thirties, my knees were

1136
01:45:35,625 --> 01:45:38,250
just kind of starting to give out on me.

1137
01:45:38,250 --> 01:45:39,375
So I had to change over to

1138
01:45:39,375 --> 01:45:40,625
swimming, swimming. So, uh.

1139
01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:43,875
Do you ever did a marathon? Did you

1140
01:45:43,875 --> 01:45:45,666
finish a marathon? No, I never, I never

1141
01:45:45,666 --> 01:45:47,166
ran a marathon. I just, I just used to

1142
01:45:47,166 --> 01:45:49,666
like to run, but with, with wrestling,

1143
01:45:49,666 --> 01:45:51,958
cause it's such a high impact endurance

1144
01:45:51,958 --> 01:45:54,208
sport. You got to run to build up, you

1145
01:45:54,208 --> 01:45:56,208
run to build up your endurance is what

1146
01:45:56,208 --> 01:45:58,708
you do. So you, you, you start off your

1147
01:45:58,708 --> 01:46:00,625
day running to get your day going.

1148
01:46:00,666 --> 01:46:01,500
And then you got all the other

1149
01:46:01,500 --> 01:46:03,708
weightlifting and all the other training.

1150
01:46:04,125 --> 01:46:06,666
Yeah. So, uh, uh, but yeah, I enjoy it.

1151
01:46:06,666 --> 01:46:08,125
Like I said, especially in grad school,

1152
01:46:08,125 --> 01:46:09,416
like you said, like it's just a good way

1153
01:46:09,416 --> 01:46:12,125
to kind of like clear your mind. Yeah.

1154
01:46:12,125 --> 01:46:13,500
Just not think of anything and just kind

1155
01:46:13,500 --> 01:46:14,750
of like, just be out there and running.

1156
01:46:14,875 --> 01:46:16,250
Especially if you got a nice, if you have

1157
01:46:16,250 --> 01:46:17,583
a nice trail to run on.

1158
01:46:17,625 --> 01:46:21,000
Oh yeah. Like here, uh, I mean,

1159
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:22,583
Hattiesboro, Mississippi and we have,

1160
01:46:22,583 --> 01:46:25,125
it's called the long lift race and it's

1161
01:46:25,125 --> 01:46:29,166
a, it's a trail that is 44 miles. So you

1162
01:46:29,166 --> 01:46:32,416
can run as much as you want. Yeah.

1163
01:46:33,458 --> 01:46:35,500
Yeah. It's great. How do you find the

1164
01:46:35,500 --> 01:46:38,000
trail running compared to running like a

1165
01:46:38,000 --> 01:46:39,833
marathon, which is probably just on like

1166
01:46:39,833 --> 01:46:41,833
a paved road, right? That must be quite

1167
01:46:41,833 --> 01:46:44,833
different. Yeah. I mean, it's harder for

1168
01:46:44,833 --> 01:46:46,500
like for your knees too.

1169
01:46:47,625 --> 01:46:49,833
Um, like for example, in Chicago, with

1170
01:46:49,833 --> 01:46:52,541
Chicago marathon, I mean, it was crazy.

1171
01:46:52,833 --> 01:46:56,541
There's like, I think over 53,000

1172
01:46:56,541 --> 01:46:59,125
runners. Yeah. It's a big one. Like from

1173
01:46:59,125 --> 01:47:02,458
the Chicago marathon. And I mean, it's

1174
01:47:02,458 --> 01:47:04,666
like, there's so many people that you

1175
01:47:04,666 --> 01:47:08,083
just like, like, just go with them. Yeah.

1176
01:47:08,833 --> 01:47:11,666
It's like, yeah. How long did you have to

1177
01:47:11,666 --> 01:47:12,875
wait before you could actually get to the

1178
01:47:12,875 --> 01:47:13,833
starting line to run?

1179
01:47:14,958 --> 01:47:18,125
So I was in, I was actually one of the,

1180
01:47:18,416 --> 01:47:21,583
in, in the second coral, I was coral sea.

1181
01:47:21,583 --> 01:47:24,500
So it was like kind of like really not

1182
01:47:24,500 --> 01:47:26,000
really in front, but like

1183
01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:27,750
also not too far behind.

1184
01:47:28,333 --> 01:47:30,541
Okay. Okay. Okay. I've heard people tell

1185
01:47:30,541 --> 01:47:32,500
me like they run like this. We have a big

1186
01:47:32,500 --> 01:47:34,250
serve marathon out here, which is really

1187
01:47:34,250 --> 01:47:37,125
popular. It runs along the coast, big

1188
01:47:37,125 --> 01:47:40,291
syrup, uh, Monterey. And, um, people have

1189
01:47:40,291 --> 01:47:41,458
told me like, sometimes they got to wait

1190
01:47:41,458 --> 01:47:43,000
like a half hour, 45 minutes

1191
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:43,625
just to get to the starting.

1192
01:47:43,625 --> 01:47:46,708
Yeah. Until they, yeah. And I think it's

1193
01:47:46,708 --> 01:47:48,625
the same for Chicago. I was just like

1194
01:47:48,625 --> 01:47:51,958
lucky that I was able to qualify for a

1195
01:47:51,958 --> 01:47:53,833
faster coral because of

1196
01:47:53,833 --> 01:47:55,375
my previous marathon time.

1197
01:47:55,791 --> 01:47:59,125
Okay. So they, they put you like, like,

1198
01:47:59,125 --> 01:48:01,500
so usually faster runners go in front and

1199
01:48:01,500 --> 01:48:02,833
then like slower runners

1200
01:48:02,833 --> 01:48:04,541
kind of like going to backpack.

1201
01:48:05,125 --> 01:48:07,000
Okay. Are you planning on doing, I know

1202
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:08,541
Chicago is a big one, but are you

1203
01:48:08,541 --> 01:48:09,625
planning on doing others

1204
01:48:09,625 --> 01:48:10,625
like New York and Boston?

1205
01:48:10,666 --> 01:48:14,666
Yeah. So I mean, it's eventually like as

1206
01:48:14,666 --> 01:48:16,916
I am, my, for my running career, like the

1207
01:48:16,916 --> 01:48:20,000
dream will be to qualify for Boston and

1208
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:22,333
to call it to qualify like in my age

1209
01:48:22,333 --> 01:48:24,500
group. I need to run a two 50.

1210
01:48:25,416 --> 01:48:27,791
Two whole two 50 marathon. Yeah. It's

1211
01:48:27,791 --> 01:48:30,666
just, it's so is that any marathon that

1212
01:48:30,666 --> 01:48:33,250
you run, uh, or there's specific ones.

1213
01:48:34,791 --> 01:48:38,083
Uh, so, so far I just done, um, the Gulf

1214
01:48:38,083 --> 01:48:40,500
coast marathon and I just did Chicago.

1215
01:48:41,500 --> 01:48:44,291
I'm probably, I'm looking into the one

1216
01:48:44,291 --> 01:48:46,083
there's one in, uh, it's called the

1217
01:48:46,083 --> 01:48:47,000
Luciana marathon.

1218
01:48:47,333 --> 01:48:49,333
That's in January. Okay.

1219
01:48:50,958 --> 01:48:52,750
So I wanted, I still want to break the

1220
01:48:52,750 --> 01:48:55,708
three hours. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're

1221
01:48:55,708 --> 01:48:58,333
close. Yeah. Yeah. Just like

1222
01:48:58,333 --> 01:49:01,583
more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1223
01:49:01,625 --> 01:49:04,250
So, so now that you got your, your, your

1224
01:49:04,250 --> 01:49:05,333
finishing up your masters and you're

1225
01:49:05,333 --> 01:49:07,833
looking forward to starting your PhD next

1226
01:49:07,833 --> 01:49:10,583
year. So like, um, where do you kind of

1227
01:49:10,583 --> 01:49:12,000
see your career going from here?

1228
01:49:13,291 --> 01:49:16,125
Well, I think I still, I feel like I want

1229
01:49:16,125 --> 01:49:18,208
to be with the last more last more ranks

1230
01:49:18,208 --> 01:49:19,916
in like for the long run.

1231
01:49:20,625 --> 01:49:26,458
Yeah. Good. Yeah. So I think I'll be

1232
01:49:26,458 --> 01:49:29,291
happy wherever I can go as long as I can

1233
01:49:29,291 --> 01:49:31,166
work with, keep working with the last

1234
01:49:31,166 --> 01:49:34,000
month. Yeah. Nice. I think I think I

1235
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:36,541
mentioned it before, but for my PhD, I'm

1236
01:49:36,541 --> 01:49:39,458
still hoping to work with guitar fishes.

1237
01:49:40,041 --> 01:49:42,333
Oh, very nice. Great, great group. Great

1238
01:49:42,333 --> 01:49:44,083
group to work on. Do you see yourself? Do

1239
01:49:44,083 --> 01:49:46,083
you think you'll stay here in the US or

1240
01:49:46,083 --> 01:49:47,625
you may go back to Mexico or?

1241
01:49:48,791 --> 01:49:51,458
It will depends on the opportunities and

1242
01:49:51,458 --> 01:49:54,125
like, like, you know, like I think it's

1243
01:49:54,125 --> 01:49:57,750
really difficult to say like thing like

1244
01:49:57,750 --> 01:50:00,916
far far, like think far in advance, but

1245
01:50:00,916 --> 01:50:03,583
yeah, I think, I mean, if I get the

1246
01:50:03,583 --> 01:50:05,333
opportunity to be here, I

1247
01:50:05,333 --> 01:50:06,625
would love to still like be here.

1248
01:50:07,625 --> 01:50:09,583
Of course. Yeah. I mean, whatever,

1249
01:50:10,333 --> 01:50:13,000
whatever, whatever the future. Yeah.

1250
01:50:13,333 --> 01:50:14,875
Well, we have you on tape now, so we'll

1251
01:50:14,875 --> 01:50:16,166
be able to check back in with you.

1252
01:50:17,166 --> 01:50:20,625
You want to you can ask if I was able to

1253
01:50:20,625 --> 01:50:22,833
break the three hours. Yes. Well, we'll

1254
01:50:22,833 --> 01:50:24,916
have you back. You break the three hours.

1255
01:50:24,916 --> 01:50:27,416
You sent us a text message. We'll have

1256
01:50:27,416 --> 01:50:28,916
you back on the talk about what have you

1257
01:50:28,916 --> 01:50:31,500
for a special bonus episode just to talk

1258
01:50:31,500 --> 01:50:32,791
about your breaking the

1259
01:50:32,791 --> 01:50:34,625
three hours. Okay. Yeah.

1260
01:50:34,625 --> 01:50:38,458
Yeah. Good. Great. So I know Brian's been

1261
01:50:38,458 --> 01:50:41,000
a been a really terrific guest having you

1262
01:50:41,000 --> 01:50:42,750
on here today and congratulations on

1263
01:50:42,750 --> 01:50:45,375
finishing your masters and we'll look

1264
01:50:45,375 --> 01:50:46,666
definitely look forward to having you on

1265
01:50:46,666 --> 01:50:48,041
again. Whether you break the three hours

1266
01:50:48,041 --> 01:50:49,666
or not. We'll definitely have you back on

1267
01:50:49,666 --> 01:50:52,750
in the future and thanks a lot very much

1268
01:50:52,750 --> 01:50:54,708
for coming on today and joining the show.

1269
01:50:55,166 --> 01:50:57,250
Thank you so much. Thank you so much,

1270
01:50:57,250 --> 01:50:59,583
babe. Thank you. Thank you, Brian, for

1271
01:50:59,583 --> 01:51:01,333
joining us on today's episode of the

1272
01:51:01,333 --> 01:51:02,708
Beyond Jaws podcast. It was

1273
01:51:02,708 --> 01:51:03,625
great to have you on. Dave.

1274
01:51:03,666 --> 01:51:06,791
Dave to do a masters like that where

1275
01:51:06,791 --> 01:51:09,166
you're learning about a species where not

1276
01:51:09,166 --> 01:51:10,666
a lot of people know about, you know, we

1277
01:51:10,666 --> 01:51:12,166
don't, we don't know a lot about that

1278
01:51:12,166 --> 01:51:14,208
species, let alone not a lot of people

1279
01:51:14,208 --> 01:51:16,958
talk about it. It must be a kind of a

1280
01:51:16,958 --> 01:51:20,416
really interesting way to break into a

1281
01:51:20,416 --> 01:51:23,208
field talking to talking about and doing

1282
01:51:23,208 --> 01:51:25,708
research about a shark that we just don't

1283
01:51:25,708 --> 01:51:27,541
know that much about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

1284
01:51:27,541 --> 01:51:29,000
he's working on something. There's almost

1285
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:30,416
nothing known about it. And their

1286
01:51:30,416 --> 01:51:32,083
comments. It's like they're rare, but

1287
01:51:32,083 --> 01:51:32,708
they're just, but just

1288
01:51:32,708 --> 01:51:33,625
there's nobody's really

1289
01:51:33,625 --> 01:51:35,083
studied him before and they have a

1290
01:51:35,083 --> 01:51:39,208
cultural importance in his in his in his

1291
01:51:39,208 --> 01:51:42,500
native country of Mexico. And so he got

1292
01:51:42,500 --> 01:51:43,916
onto something that most people are not

1293
01:51:43,916 --> 01:51:46,208
even thinking about with with looking at

1294
01:51:46,208 --> 01:51:48,750
those with looking at those the dried the

1295
01:51:48,750 --> 01:51:51,791
dried guitar fish down there. And and

1296
01:51:51,791 --> 01:51:53,458
then, you know, he we always talk about

1297
01:51:53,458 --> 01:51:56,000
this with with people when I talk to

1298
01:51:56,000 --> 01:51:57,250
young people, it's like find something

1299
01:51:57,250 --> 01:52:00,458
somebody else isn't doing. And he did. He

1300
01:52:00,458 --> 01:52:01,666
found something that somebody was not

1301
01:52:01,666 --> 01:52:03,625
doing. I mean, you know, the best example

1302
01:52:03,666 --> 01:52:05,750
always usually everybody can go do white

1303
01:52:05,750 --> 01:52:07,416
sharks or lots of people do white sharks,

1304
01:52:07,416 --> 01:52:10,166
but the skills he learned he go do white

1305
01:52:10,166 --> 01:52:11,958
sharks now or whatever. But he's he's

1306
01:52:11,958 --> 01:52:14,250
found something that he he basically he's

1307
01:52:14,250 --> 01:52:15,833
made himself the expert himself position.

1308
01:52:15,833 --> 01:52:18,458
He's an expert in that. And that's that's

1309
01:52:18,458 --> 01:52:19,708
what's going to set that's going to set

1310
01:52:19,708 --> 01:52:22,333
your career apart early on in your

1311
01:52:22,333 --> 01:52:23,791
careers and do something. Nobody else is

1312
01:52:23,791 --> 01:52:27,208
doing and he's a perfect poster child for

1313
01:52:27,208 --> 01:52:30,958
that type of type of research. And now it

1314
01:52:30,958 --> 01:52:32,000
was it was it was it was really

1315
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:33,500
fascinating having a model definitely.

1316
01:52:33,666 --> 01:52:35,625
He's one of those young guys be nice to

1317
01:52:35,625 --> 01:52:37,291
track his career as he goes along to the

1318
01:52:37,291 --> 01:52:41,791
next phase, like with his PhD as he as he

1319
01:52:41,791 --> 01:52:43,500
advances there and sees and see what he

1320
01:52:43,500 --> 01:52:46,000
does. And I think he's going to be he's

1321
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:47,000
going to be staying there working with

1322
01:52:47,000 --> 01:52:49,041
Nicole Phillips, who's who's on the

1323
01:52:49,041 --> 01:52:52,125
podcast during the during the episodes we

1324
01:52:52,125 --> 01:52:55,208
had then back during the symposium. Yeah,

1325
01:52:55,208 --> 01:52:56,666
we'll definitely have to have her back on

1326
01:52:56,666 --> 01:52:59,666
here as well. So we'll definitely look

1327
01:52:59,666 --> 01:53:01,916
forward to that. But no, it was really

1328
01:53:01,916 --> 01:53:03,625
good hearing Brian's story. And he's

1329
01:53:03,666 --> 01:53:07,916
he's starting his PhD next year. And so

1330
01:53:07,916 --> 01:53:09,166
it'll be great to kind of track his

1331
01:53:09,166 --> 01:53:11,375
career as he goes along. Absolutely. And

1332
01:53:11,375 --> 01:53:13,500
we'll we'll link to any social media that

1333
01:53:13,500 --> 01:53:15,791
he has. Dave, if people want to get ahold

1334
01:53:15,791 --> 01:53:17,625
of you, how would they do so? Lost Shark

1335
01:53:17,625 --> 01:53:19,541
Guy on Instagram? That's probably the

1336
01:53:19,541 --> 01:53:22,958
best way or check out my YouTube channel.

1337
01:53:22,958 --> 01:53:25,500
At Lost Shark Guy and check out the

1338
01:53:25,500 --> 01:53:27,583
series, searching for lost sharks extinct

1339
01:53:27,583 --> 01:53:30,041
or live. It really helps if you get views

1340
01:53:30,041 --> 01:53:31,666
and get views on there and people want to

1341
01:53:31,666 --> 01:53:32,291
click on there and

1342
01:53:32,291 --> 01:53:33,625
subscribe. Please subscribe.

1343
01:53:33,666 --> 01:53:35,250
Please do so really, really appreciate

1344
01:53:35,250 --> 01:53:37,541
it. Awesome. And if you want to get ahold

1345
01:53:37,541 --> 01:53:40,208
of us beyond Jaws Pod on Instagram and on

1346
01:53:40,208 --> 01:53:42,041
YouTube, where you're probably watching

1347
01:53:42,041 --> 01:53:43,125
this or listening to this on your

1348
01:53:43,125 --> 01:53:44,833
favorite podcast app, which want to go to

1349
01:53:44,833 --> 01:53:46,833
YouTube to your wonderful looking faces.

1350
01:53:47,500 --> 01:53:49,416
You can do so. Just go to beyond Jaws

1351
01:53:49,416 --> 01:53:51,375
Pod. I want to thank all of you for

1352
01:53:51,375 --> 01:53:52,833
joining us today. I want to thank Brian.

1353
01:53:52,833 --> 01:53:54,458
I want to thank, of course, Dave, my co

1354
01:53:54,458 --> 01:53:57,041
host for each and every time coming in

1355
01:53:57,041 --> 01:53:58,708
and bringing in the heat. It's always fun

1356
01:53:58,708 --> 01:54:01,208
to do podcasts with you. And we're going

1357
01:54:01,208 --> 01:54:02,916
to continue to do them forever and ever.

1358
01:54:03,125 --> 01:54:03,625
It's going to be a lot of fun.

1359
01:54:03,625 --> 01:54:05,583
But thank you so much for joining us on

1360
01:54:05,583 --> 01:54:06,958
today's episode of the beyond Jaws

1361
01:54:06,958 --> 01:54:08,583
podcast from David and I. We really

1362
01:54:08,583 --> 01:54:10,041
appreciate you. Have a great day. We'll

1363
01:54:10,041 --> 01:54:10,708
talk to you next time

1364
01:54:10,708 --> 01:54:11,708
and happy conservation.