Recounting 2025’s Biggest Shark Stories: Orcas vs Great Whites, Better Protections, and More!

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On this special episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast, Dave and I recount the year in shark
news, shark conservation, shark science, all things that have to do with shark.

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We're going to talk about what happened in 2025 as we are approaching 2026.

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It's going to be a fun episode.

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We're going to be talking about orcas versus great whites.

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We're going to be talking about the Jaws, the movie, the 50th anniversary.

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We're going to talk about some protections that happened to sharks with the Sides.

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We're also going to go over some things that happened to us with our podcast and our own
podcast.

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So it's going to be a lot of fun.

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So stay tuned and let's start the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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I'm your co-host Andrew Lewin here with my co-host Dr.

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David Ebert, also known as The Lost Shark Guy.

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We're going to be today talking about all things sharks.

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What happened in 2025.

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Dave, are you ready to start this?

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I'm absolutely Andrew.

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I'm pumped up and ready to roll.

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And it's like, it's great.

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Kind of like look at the year and recap and what we have look forward to in 2026.

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Absolutely.

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It's going to be a lot of fun because a lot of stuff happened in 2025.

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So we're going to get to it.

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Let's jump right into the big news around that happened in 2025.

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There was a paper coming out talking about how orcas were shaping the population of great
white sharks in South Africa, particularly in false Bay and other bays.

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And the fact of like, you know, lot of the great white sharks have disappeared from the
area.

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We don't know really what happened.

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are some theories that have happened through some data and through some evidence.

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ah like orcas tend to obviously uh sort of dominate the news cycle and the headlines when
there's two orcas, Port and Starboard, that come in and they grab the livers of the great

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whites and they're known to come in.

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And we had Alison Towner on to talk about it and to come in and like within a half hour or
a couple of hours or three hours.

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You know, they killed, you know, a good number of sharks, you know, over five, maybe even
ten sharks.

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I think it was 17 was the number, but like incredible amount of sharks that obviously
dominates the news because people are fascinated with, you know, great whites and they're

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fascinated with orcas.

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But there are two prevailing theories on why there's been such a disappearance of these
great whites where they dominated the food chain before they were the apex predator.

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Dave, why don't you just kind of give a quick explanation.

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It's going to be a half hour episode, but we're going to try and, know,

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crunch this into that because we have other stuff to talk about but you know give me your
thought or talk about the two you know prevalent theories.

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think the two theories as you kind of outline, have the one at these two orcas have
basically knocked down the population of great white sharks in the Western Cape and South

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Africa.

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The other theory is that a lot of the species, kind of the mid trophic level species that
white sharks would feed on besides sea lions or other sharks and rays and some of the

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larger boni, predatory boni fishes, those populations have been affected more.

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which has been more of the impact of the great white shark population as much as well, uh
in addition to the two orcas.

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And we've had people on, we have had Alison Tadron, we had Chris Fallows on a few years
ago, we've had some different people on.

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Of course, I know people on both sides of the issue quite well in South Africa.

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And uh it's a fascinating story that's going on.

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I mean, I can tell you from my own experience when I was there, there was no shortage of
white sharks in the Western Cape.

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very common, know, ecotourism were quite prominent at the time.

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know, Shark Week still goes out and tries to find great white sharks breaching out around
uh Seal Island and False Bay.

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I think it's getting a little harder to find talking with Jeff Kerr and a few people
who've had on the show in the past.

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uh It's a fascinating story, but I think also people need to look at like historically
what's gone on, because I know from the fifties and sixties, which for my time, uh

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white great white sharks are quite common up in a Quasul and the towel, which is the East
coast of South Africa, Durban.

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And, and part of that was because they used to have a, whaling station up in Durban back
when they did whaling and these large white sharks would follow the whale carcasses into

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the whaling station.

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And they used to have a uh club.

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They used call the thousand pounder club and fishermen go out onto the jetty there.

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and try to see if they could land a thousand pound white shark.

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And there's an angling club based right there by the Durban Harbor that you can go in
there and you can see these pictures from the 50s and 60s of these giant white sharks they

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would catch.

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Now, put aside what you might think of people fishing for large white sharks, again, this
was back in the 50s and 60s, but the fact that white sharks were pretty common back in

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that day.

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Now, going up to when I was...

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first came to South Africa in the kind of mid late 80s, early 90s, uh white sharks in the
Western Cape, Cape Town and that area were very common.

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was, you know, it was pretty common.

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But up on the East Coast there, Durban and North, they were not as commonly seen as they
were.

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And so I don't know if there's been so there could have been a shift somehow.

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Some motion of graphic changes that have maybe pushed the white sharks that way.

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It's possible it's the orcas.

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It could be a reduction of some of their food in the Western Cape.

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uh

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There's a of different theories abound as far as what's going on out there.

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And again, from my recollection, when there used to be a lot of white sharks there, it's
hard for me to imagine that two orcas have really have hammered the population that much.

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you never know.

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it just seems like there are, I tend to think there's probably more going on, just in my
own opinion, besides just the two orcas there.

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And a thing you and I and Andrew have talked about,

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off air a bit is like, where's the pods for these particular orcas?

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Because orcas are very social animals and they tend to occur in a pod.

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It's like, where are the pods?

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I don't know if anybody's, that's a good question we should ask some of these people
there.

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when we had Allison on the podcast, we talked about that because I was like, are they part
of a pod?

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And she was like, that's a great question because she didn't know.

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There's nothing known about these these orcas because nobody followed.

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I guess it would be difficult to predict when they're going to come in.

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And when they do come in, what do you do?

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You grab a helicopter.

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I your drone can only go so far.

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A boat's not going to keep up with with orcas and try and track them.

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maybe you can track them from the air like a helicopter or a plane but even then it's
difficult.

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So maybe if you know they're in the area maybe you can send something up there but we
don't really know a lot of the research that's been done on orcas down in South Africa and

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if anybody's watching this please let us know because we would love to have a conversation
with those researchers and then the people who have done work or know more about them.

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But I do think it's interesting too because you look at

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you back in the fifties you know he said that you know derby was was popular i'm looking
at a map right now derby and keep down a pretty far from each other you know going ocean

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wise uh...

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and so unit maybe in there's it's possible completely possible that that derby population
may have come down over to to capetown and muscle bay and and and so forth but

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We don't know that.

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We don't know if that's the same population.

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We don't know if that population has gone back up there.

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If it's that same pop, maybe we'll know a little bit more if we, if they've been tagged
now that we've done a lot of research.

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Like there've been a lot of researchers now that have looked at that population ever
since, you know, the air jaws thing started, right?

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Right.

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Well, the other thing too is we know these white sharks move around and kind of a little
story.

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This is something we probably should have done.

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We may do a story in the new year on this is that there was a white shark tagged off South
Africa that turned up in Indonesia.

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Right.

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That's again, that was Alison Towner too, that came up with that paper, right?

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I don't know if, yeah.

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Well, here's the other funny part of the story was the, uh, the person that got the tag
from it, um, actually contacted me and asked me if, you and asked me if I knew who, who's

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tagged this was.

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And that set off a whole detective story.

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And at the time the fishermen said it was a long fin Mako shark.

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And so, and so I reached out to a number of people that I knew.

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including Allison Towner and others and said, Hey, I got this colleague in Indonesia who
got this tag and then and basically a long story short, it turned out that we're able to

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we're able to track down that who whose tag it was and they actually tracked it back down
and turned out it was.

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Yes, it was a tag that was done off South Africa that it wound up a couple of years later
off of off Indonesia.

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And so like so you've got the.

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Yes, you've got these sharks traveling all over the place that I mean, you think about
the, I mean, it doesn't surprise me.

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These are large, large white sharks being able to move such great distances, but I don't
think anybody had in their, uh, bingo card that these things would go all the way to

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Indonesia.

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We, we know there's at least one record going to Nigalu reef in Australia, but here's
another example.

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Well, and it's so interesting to see, like again, I'm looking at a map, so I just kind of
zoomed out from South Africa to look at where South Africa is compared to Indonesia.

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And it's kind of interesting because you have, well guess, yeah, Indonesia is so, where
was it off the coast of Indonesia?

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I forget the exact location off Indonesia.

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forget the exact island.

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to I want to say yeah I say Sumatra.

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I can't remember exactly but it was I can't remember was it was

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because it's cool because it's like I guess the lower part of Indonesia where you have
like North Sumatra, West Sumatra, like the Sumatra Islands here.

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Because like the the main island of Indonesia, like when you look at it, like the Borneo
and stuff, it's it's it's covered.

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It's basically like a barrier from like Sumatra becomes a barrier to to the rest of
Indonesia.

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So it becomes it becomes interesting to see like where they've gone and how

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They've navigated through that.

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uh But yeah, it's just so cool to see these big migrations from these large sharks.

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Obviously not surprising based on their morphology and their size that they can, and
they're obviously an apex predator so they can survive that trek, but just the way they go

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from back and forth is pretty cool.

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yeah, and mean in Indonesia, mean there's records of great white sharks from there, but
they're not considered that common in there and stuff, so they tend to be deeper, it's

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more Trump.

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No, actually, interesting story, and there's specific, the fisherman said it was a longfin
mako, which wasn't even, which is the shortfin's a more common one.

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It turned out after a lot of invest, and this was kind of a, there's a longer story, maybe
we'll get somebody on here.

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yeah, yeah.

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detail.

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mean, could tell you about my part of the whole thing, but, cause I was the guy they
contacted that led to them to figure it out.

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But it was kind of a detective story.

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It turned out to the fishermen knew it was a great white shark and um, but they, because
great white sharks are protected that he didn't want to, they didn't want to tell him, say

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it was a great white shark, but the fishermen knew it was.

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And because they, the shark, they get cut the fin off where the tag had been put on the
dorsal fin.

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I remember seeing the fin going like, man, she doesn't look like a

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Mako shark, but yeah, I didn't really, I was just thinking, but yeah, right, right.

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Yeah.

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mean, the dorsal fin didn't quite look like a long fin.

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I think like, and long fin Makos are not that common.

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Mako sharks are a little more common, but the fisherman was kind of specific, but yeah,
anyway, it turned out that they caught it.

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It was incidentally caught.

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And, um, and I can speak from experience, you catch anything there, you're not throwing it
back.

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It's protein to eat.

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and stuff.

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so, but there, but the fisherman was afraid he might get in trouble for having caught a
great white shark.

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Um, but yeah, but they knew he knew what it was.

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And so, uh, but that was a whole, you know, we'll have to have somebody come on next year
and talk about this.

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be a good bonus episode.

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It was a great, it was a great investigative story in terms of how you figured this whole
thing out.

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That turned out multi-continents and multiple people involved.

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And, uh, but, but yeah, just to give you a sense of how far these white sharks can travel
and, um, um,

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you know, all the going all the way there.

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And just also another kind of a little note on when I was did my trip earlier this year in
Madagascar, you know, we might have found an area in Madagascar that people, catch a very

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large and very small newborn white sharks off Madagascar, which might be a birthing area,
which should be something we follow and we'll be following up on in 2026.

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That would be huge.

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That yeah, because that's never been detected, right?

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Okay.

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It's one of those things that some local people might be aware of it, but I'm not aware
of.

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No, to my knowledge, no, there's not there.

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So that could be a whole unraveling story for 2026.

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People might stay tuned for.

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Yeah, it's a good teaser for next year to look forward to.

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Yeah.

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of great whites, we had a pretty big anniversary of the movie Jaws this year was to the
50th anniversary in 2025 of Jaws.

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We did a special episode where we had you, had Lisa Nattanson, we had Greg Skomol, we had
Chris Lowe, you know, and all of them had, you know, very, very great big memories of

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Jaws, where they were, how they thought.

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or what they thought of the movie as their research, as we often refer to you and that
group as the Jaws generation because a lot of research money came in because people want

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to know about great white sharks in that area and how that's going to change and what they
just want to know about sharks.

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And it kind of spurred a huge curiosity about sharks, which obviously spurs science
funding and being able to do a lot of new things with sharks.

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Yeah.

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over this podcast a series, a number of times.

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And so that was cool in terms of being able to do that.

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Jaws has really molded what people think of sharks.

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There's obviously the predominant feeling of being scared in the water, not having control
when you swim compared to these massive animals.

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And then of course, there's what I just mentioned is that the

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spurring of funding so because government officials all over the place including
California uh You know obviously the movie took place in Cape Cod But this is in

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California where they were like we wanted to know where that why they're great whites here
and what they need to do and then it became like such a important conservation story such

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a successful conservation story where on both coasts the East Coast and the West Coast you
saw an increase and you continue to see an increase in Great white sharks, and so that's

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phenomenal to see

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But obviously people are still afraid of sharks and and Jaws a lot of the times like I saw
Jaws I'm not going in the water.

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Why would I why would I go in the water?

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I guess like you know after we did the episode we got we got some really cool insights you
know Chris Lowe talked about how he grew up there and he knew a lot of the people that

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were in the movie and things like that he watched a lot of production he saw the robotic
shark that never worked you know that kind of stuff.

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m What are you to wrap up your thoughts on the year for Jaws?

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You know, it's obviously played a significant role in the reputation of sharks and the
funding of shark science.

195
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But like, going forward, where do you see Jaws as the generation that watched it kind of
like, it almost becomes like a classic horror movie, but, or thriller horror movie, as we

196
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get further away from its release date, and know, 50 years after, do you think Jaws is
still the predominant shark movie that...

197
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you know, the next generation Gen Z, Gen Alpha have seen and, you know, lived by?

198
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Or do you think there are other movies that play a more significant role, whether they're
horror movies or documentaries or anything like that?

199
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I still think Jaws has looms large for a lot of people, even though I know we talked with
some of the younger people that were born like, you know, well after Jaws came out, you

200
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know, they watch it now and, you know, it kind of looks like a fake shark.

201
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I mean, you know, you have to look at the era, you know, at that time, the special effects
were cutting edge in 1975.

202
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That was that was that was the thing.

203
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And and you mentioned like, you know, Chris Lowe was he grew up there in Martha's
Vineyard.

204
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He watched.

205
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the stuff.

206
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And like, I think he used the term, he goes a lot of it's for him watching like family
home movies because a lot of his relatives and friends were in the movie or in the movie.

207
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And, and, and so like, you know, kind of moving forward here, you know, I don't know if
they've had that definitive sort of shark movie.

208
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They've all been sort of jaws knockoffs.

209
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I don't know if there's been that one that's really kind of captured the imagination like
jaws did.

210
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And as I said,

211
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you know, I've said many times over is that it really, it laid the foundation for, for,
for modern shark science and things that again, young people were just, you know, were

212
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born well after jaws.

213
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Can't get, can't understand.

214
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Like there was things like, there's no field of shark conservation.

215
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It just, didn't exist.

216
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It was not in the, it was not in the lexicon at all.

217
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And a thing back then too, I've tried to emphasize when we've tied these conversations is
that

218
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It was really cool back then, because if you could think of something, you know, most of
us that were doing grad school, like the professors were like, I don't know, go check it

219
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out and let me know what you find out.

220
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You could, it was like a wild West where you could go try things.

221
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And back then people worked in all kinds of tax.

222
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It wasn't just great white sharks.

223
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You know, we didn't know anything about white sharks then, but people worked in all kinds
of tax.

224
00:18:19,372 --> 00:18:26,271
You know, we had Dominic Didier on who talked about, you she made her name in go sharks
and that, and she, and she was that, she was that era.

225
00:18:26,271 --> 00:18:30,192
that jaws generation, she works on a tax and nobody knew anything about.

226
00:18:30,553 --> 00:18:40,737
And, and so like, I mean, all this stuff that's come out shark education outreach, even,
know, today fast forwarding today to some of the shark communication stuff with social

227
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media and stuff.

228
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All this to me came out of jaws because there was nothing, there was nothing before the
movie came out.

229
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And after that you started getting the sort of the seeds in the whole, science realm that
eventually led to the conservation.

230
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conservation.

231
00:18:55,659 --> 00:18:58,739
We've had Sarah Fowler on in the couple of episodes in the past.

232
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Well, and she was really one of the other the jaws generations that really kind of started
the whole conservation field.

233
00:19:05,879 --> 00:19:15,879
But yeah, yes, I can't think of any any movie as like today of what I just can't think of
a movie today, a shark type movie that has that same sort of impact.

234
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think, we had we had Alia Benchek on from the the All the Sharks series on Netflix, which
I have to say,

235
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Yeah.

236
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typically watches those things.

237
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Cause when you live in this world, you just don't really watch them that much.

238
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But I was, it was kind of cool.

239
00:19:34,225 --> 00:19:42,611
They went out to look for some, um, some different sharks and kind of feature some
different species of sharks for that, for that program.

240
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in the episode, of course we had a Leon the show, uh, to talk about, talk a little bit
about her experiences and everything.

241
00:19:51,097 --> 00:19:54,027
and so that was kind of neat to see that they're kind of like trying to promote.

242
00:19:54,027 --> 00:19:57,267
They're trying to promote some other shark species out there.

243
00:19:57,707 --> 00:20:00,747
Some different, some other types of sharks, some, shark diversity.

244
00:20:00,747 --> 00:20:07,367
So that, that was kind of cool to see and see if they, if they pick up on that as on any
of those things going forward.

245
00:20:07,467 --> 00:20:16,567
You know, then you have, then you have a lot of the standard stuff with whether it's shark
week or Nat Geo shark festival, get back into just doing white sharks, which is the same

246
00:20:16,567 --> 00:20:19,227
thing over and over again, you know, kind of my opinion.

247
00:20:19,227 --> 00:20:20,687
But, yeah, yeah.

248
00:20:20,687 --> 00:20:21,045
Yeah.

249
00:20:21,045 --> 00:20:28,005
liked about all the sharks was it was the refreshing attitude of like, let's display,
let's talk about different sharks.

250
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They'd have like almost like a little panel that would pop up when there was a new shark
that was discussed on the show.

251
00:20:33,885 --> 00:20:38,085
And you got to understand that there are a lot of different, there are a lot more
diversity.

252
00:20:38,085 --> 00:20:45,075
There's a lot more diversity to sharks than, you know, just the iconic ones that we know,
the tiger sharks, the great whites, the bulls and so forth.

253
00:20:45,075 --> 00:20:45,365
Right.

254
00:20:45,365 --> 00:20:50,967
Well, it's kind of gone in reverse because when we started out, you know, my generation,
we're starting everything.

255
00:20:50,967 --> 00:20:52,458
I mean, there was no limit.

256
00:20:52,458 --> 00:20:54,729
We're looking at it's gone the opposite way.

257
00:20:54,729 --> 00:21:03,343
And I think probably, you know, the phenomena shark attack was definitely something that a
lot of these things focused on in the 80s, 90s and into the early 2000s.

258
00:21:03,343 --> 00:21:09,570
And then you start getting a lot of the spectacular white shark stuff, which it's it's
it's pretty spectacular to see them when they breach.

259
00:21:09,570 --> 00:21:11,306
I there's no no question about that.

260
00:21:11,306 --> 00:21:14,449
uh But there's been like there's just there's just

261
00:21:14,449 --> 00:21:17,510
still, but it's gone to where everybody wants, especially social media.

262
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Everybody wants to go out and like film themselves with a white shark or a tiger shark,
which I think is kind of nuts.

263
00:21:23,443 --> 00:21:28,945
But, you know, because you're because you're you're playing with a wild animal that you
don't know what's going to happen.

264
00:21:28,985 --> 00:21:39,169
And, uh you know, and so versus, you know, you do see there are some people out there that
feature some lesser known species, uh which I think is really cool, uh which is good.

265
00:21:39,169 --> 00:21:44,021
But there's but, you know, particularly grad students coming through and always

266
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Harp in this like find something nobody's doing and that's gonna be your best your
shortest distance to making a name for yourself do work on something nobody else is doing

267
00:21:53,159 --> 00:22:02,866
and then that's where you make your name that's where you make your name for yourself in
the field ah you know so yeah jaw jaws it was 50 years I think it was it's still the

268
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overall shark movie that people will point to even if people younger people they think it
looks hokey and admittedly today I watched today at

269
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It's a good story, but the shark looks a little more hokey.

270
00:22:15,434 --> 00:22:22,715
But as I say, when I was in high school in 1975, that shark looked pretty damn real at the
time for what we knew about sharks.

271
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Scared the hell out of I wouldn't go in pools because of it.

272
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That's how much it scared the hell out me when I was a kid.

273
00:22:27,089 --> 00:22:28,670
oh No, for sure.

274
00:22:28,670 --> 00:22:29,151
Absolutely.

275
00:22:29,151 --> 00:22:40,119
Well, and you know, with that, with research that, you know, spurred with this movie and
the development of a shark science and conservation field, conservation became a really

276
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big uh part of the field because we realized that sharks were being fished at such a
phenomenal rate.

277
00:22:48,801 --> 00:22:58,515
They still are fished, like they're over fished in a lot of places, especially the high
seas, but even within a lot of the country's borders because it's really difficult to

278
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patrol all the time to stop over fishing.

279
00:23:01,176 --> 00:23:02,937
And we know there's a lot of problems with that.

280
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There's been a lot of success in protecting some of these sharks, but we saw some big, big
protections this year using CITES.

281
00:23:11,451 --> 00:23:17,011
And so Dave, why don't you just kind of talk about, you know, what CITES is.

282
00:23:17,011 --> 00:23:24,414
why the protections became better, what those protections were, and how it's going to
protect these species.

283
00:23:24,414 --> 00:23:33,858
Yeah, society is basically a it's a it's a conservation uh tool really to protect its
conservation and trade of endangered species.

284
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And they had a number of sharks, particularly shark shark groups.

285
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Probably the biggest one that they put in some protections are for the gulper sharks that
they had because they're deep sea sharks or easily over fish.

286
00:23:46,363 --> 00:23:48,824
And a lot of people go for them for the liver oil.

287
00:23:48,904 --> 00:23:53,995
And we had a number of people that have been on this been on our podcast like Brit Fenucci
and others.

288
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we're involved with that and stuff.

289
00:23:56,795 --> 00:24:05,235
you know, big thing I have, and they, there's a whole number of tax that they've, they've,
they're developing or they're to be implementing some protections.

290
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But a lot of things we just, and we just hit on this too, is that there've been some
really good stuff with some shark conservation.

291
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The white sharks in North America have been astounding success.

292
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And I think that should be highlighted.

293
00:24:18,175 --> 00:24:23,715
I don't think people should highlight that enough, but a lot of these countries,

294
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Um, it's, it's where they, where they have these things, food security is a, a big issue
and it's really hard.

295
00:24:32,434 --> 00:24:34,634
talk about like, well, can you go out there and really enforce this?

296
00:24:34,634 --> 00:24:38,434
And it's like, well, again, coming from, I've been to a lot of these places.

297
00:24:38,434 --> 00:24:47,014
How do you go into some places where malnutrition is over 50 % of the population and they
catch a shark and they're just carrying to catch anything for protein.

298
00:24:47,014 --> 00:24:50,454
And you say, oh, you shouldn't catch that because it's endangered or something.

299
00:24:50,454 --> 00:24:52,194
You know, you just, you can't do that.

300
00:24:52,194 --> 00:24:53,300
I just, I just.

301
00:24:53,300 --> 00:25:02,715
from a humanitarian standpoint, you just can't go in there and tell these people in a
village where they might catch something, you know, cause they're not using this pretty, I

302
00:25:02,715 --> 00:25:03,946
use the term primitive gear.

303
00:25:03,946 --> 00:25:06,297
They're not using like big commercial industry.

304
00:25:06,297 --> 00:25:10,550
It's not like some these sort of factory ships that are out fishing on the high seas and
stuff.

305
00:25:10,550 --> 00:25:11,960
That's a different story.

306
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:21,946
I'm talking about some extremely poor countries that they're catching things and the
government's not going to go in realistically and tell them, well, you can't catch that

307
00:25:21,946 --> 00:25:22,756
shark.

308
00:25:22,986 --> 00:25:25,857
because they're just, you're talking literary people.

309
00:25:25,857 --> 00:25:30,768
And it's an interesting topic we've talked a little bit about over the years and stuff.

310
00:25:30,768 --> 00:25:35,750
Maybe it's something we could do for next year, have a few people on, have a little more
of a panel discussion about it.

311
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:42,852
ah I have to say one thing, I think I've talked off air about this and I've talked to a
few colleagues of it.

312
00:25:42,892 --> 00:25:49,874
When I was watching the whole CITES thing going on in real time with the pictures and
stuff being posted from.

313
00:25:49,928 --> 00:25:54,242
It was in, it was held in Abu Dhabi and it was a very opulent event.

314
00:25:54,242 --> 00:26:00,156
mean, it was very much, it was high end, really ritzy to use the term.

315
00:26:00,156 --> 00:26:06,631
And honestly, at the time I'd just come out of Madagascar, which is like the third poorest
country in the world.

316
00:26:06,671 --> 00:26:18,291
And it's, it's really hard for me to see people going to a very opulent event like this,
mostly from developed countries, making decisions for people in developing countries, poor

317
00:26:18,291 --> 00:26:19,281
countries.

318
00:26:19,333 --> 00:26:21,154
on what they can eat and can't eat.

319
00:26:21,214 --> 00:26:24,805
I just, philosophically have, that's just a personal thing.

320
00:26:24,805 --> 00:26:28,877
And I have, I have a lot of very good friends there and I know they're very committed to
what they're doing.

321
00:26:29,017 --> 00:26:33,589
But the, but the optics of it to me was, I had some problems with the optics of it.

322
00:26:33,589 --> 00:26:38,081
just, it's just really, it's just really, it was just kind of hard to see.

323
00:26:38,081 --> 00:26:47,665
And I think they need to find a little better way to be able to do these types of things,
but, but, but not present in such a way that, you Hey, we're from

324
00:26:47,837 --> 00:26:56,279
the Western world and we're going to tell you how you need to, how you need to be uh
eating and catching stuff in Madagascar or pick your country, you know?

325
00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:58,948
Um, so, um, I don't know how.

326
00:26:58,948 --> 00:26:59,468
sense.

327
00:26:59,468 --> 00:27:13,208
mean, there's obviously a bit of a disconnect in terms of, you know, coming in from Abu
Dhabi where everything is very high class to going to a situation where, you know, it's

328
00:27:13,208 --> 00:27:19,108
not, you know, there are people who are literally fighting to eat their next meal.

329
00:27:19,188 --> 00:27:24,288
you know, a lot of those are fishers and they're going to eat whatever they can.

330
00:27:24,288 --> 00:27:27,148
And so it kind of goes towards the

331
00:27:27,272 --> 00:27:31,625
the ability of are these studies regulations gonna be met?

332
00:27:31,625 --> 00:27:33,686
And that's the challenge, right?

333
00:27:33,686 --> 00:27:45,663
In these poorer countries, or these developing countries where there's a problem with that
and they need to eat and sometimes they can't get it and so they're gonna do whatever they

334
00:27:45,663 --> 00:27:46,603
can to eat.

335
00:27:46,603 --> 00:27:55,168
Obviously, not the good thing for those species that are being uh attacked or caught, but
also

336
00:27:55,303 --> 00:28:00,008
It's something that we need to make sure that we're focusing on.

337
00:28:00,538 --> 00:28:09,418
have a solution for it, but it's just something that you see there because I work in that
world and I see that and I cross over to both sides of it.

338
00:28:09,418 --> 00:28:16,218
think a lot of people, I mean, I'll just tell you, for my career, mean, a lot of people
wouldn't go to a lot of the places I've been to in my career.

339
00:28:16,218 --> 00:28:17,938
They just wouldn't go there.

340
00:28:17,938 --> 00:28:21,478
And when you're on the ground, you see what's to see there.

341
00:28:21,478 --> 00:28:26,698
It's a very different experience than when you're sitting in like say Abu Dhabi.

342
00:28:26,801 --> 00:28:27,875
Absolutely.

343
00:28:27,938 --> 00:28:29,269
or sitting in some other place.

344
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:31,571
And so you just have an appreciation.

345
00:28:31,571 --> 00:28:34,333
think it'll be interesting to see.

346
00:28:34,333 --> 00:28:37,649
But that was the one ah thing I noticed.

347
00:28:37,649 --> 00:28:39,399
it's a lot of this is trade.

348
00:28:39,399 --> 00:28:41,570
So it's more of like bringing over borders.

349
00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:44,952
So a lot of the sharks are caught for a lot of medicinal purposes.

350
00:28:44,952 --> 00:28:48,514
So, you it's not necessarily for food for poor fishermen.

351
00:28:48,514 --> 00:28:57,618
Mind you, they could sell that food that that food that they catch for probably a pretty
big amount, but that trade won't get over to the countries that bringing it in bulk and

352
00:28:57,618 --> 00:29:03,028
they're trying to make more of a profit from it instead of, you know, trying to support.

353
00:29:03,028 --> 00:29:05,328
local fishers and things like that.

354
00:29:05,328 --> 00:29:07,408
So I think it's an important aspect.

355
00:29:07,588 --> 00:29:16,648
The big thing is it went from, I believe it was Annex 2 to Annex 1 or Annex 1 to Annex
never remember which one's the more, it went from less strict to more strict for the

356
00:29:16,648 --> 00:29:20,548
Convention of International Trade in Endangered Species in Wild Fawn and Florida.

357
00:29:20,548 --> 00:29:24,608
That's what CITES is, is Convention of International Trade in Endangered Species.

358
00:29:24,608 --> 00:29:30,917
I never remembered it, I had to look it up myself, Dave, so I didn't want to put you to
the feet of the iron on that.

359
00:29:30,917 --> 00:29:38,617
I used to say, so I used to say in the acronym, I forget what they have to look it up to,
even though I've yeah, it's only been dealing in the world for like most of my career, but

360
00:29:38,617 --> 00:29:39,697
yeah.

361
00:29:39,697 --> 00:29:45,857
You know, it's like, you just used to say one thing, but yeah, it's, it's, it's a
challenge and there's no doubt about it.

362
00:29:45,857 --> 00:29:48,102
Um, where things are, but you know, it kind of,

363
00:29:48,102 --> 00:29:56,487
as a side note to this whole thing and people might, younger people might be shocked
about, but in the early 1980s, I think about 1983, there was a national geographic

364
00:29:56,487 --> 00:30:00,088
specialist featured Eugenie Clark and the shark lady.

365
00:30:00,369 --> 00:30:09,553
And in the ep, it was a really well done episode, but she's promoting the use of shark
liver oil for medicinal purposes in the, in the program.

366
00:30:10,694 --> 00:30:16,657
And, and this just tells you where we've gone today because back at that time in the early
eighties and even in the eighties,

367
00:30:16,785 --> 00:30:19,951
It was kind of like thought, we just use, you know, liver oils.

368
00:30:19,951 --> 00:30:22,093
It works for medicinal purposes.

369
00:30:22,155 --> 00:30:23,878
And, um, and again, this

370
00:30:23,878 --> 00:30:28,875
necessarily, that was more of a cultural thing where she was going by the culture because
that's what they use it for.

371
00:30:28,875 --> 00:30:31,029
So she's like, there must be a purpose for it.

372
00:30:31,029 --> 00:30:38,468
But then when the actual research comes out in peer review journals and some of them they
find out it doesn't work, then that's when you change your mind, right?

373
00:30:38,468 --> 00:30:45,009
yeah, I mean, Genie was part Japanese as well, but you know, again, this was like, think I
to say 1983 national geographic.

374
00:30:45,009 --> 00:30:47,729
I mean, we were only like eight years past Jaws at that time.

375
00:30:47,729 --> 00:30:55,029
And really the whole, the whole shark research thing was really just starting to kick into
gear at this point in time and stuff.

376
00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:55,572
it was, again,

377
00:30:55,572 --> 00:30:59,993
sharks for medical purposes too and their properties there too, right?

378
00:30:59,993 --> 00:31:02,517
That probably hasn't even been looked at at that point.

379
00:31:02,517 --> 00:31:08,597
This was this was all new stuff that just came about that we had no idea what we had no
idea at the time.

380
00:31:08,597 --> 00:31:11,117
And so you always have to look through the lens of history.

381
00:31:11,117 --> 00:31:19,637
And, know, if you're younger people, you know, it's not often you have a chance to talk to
people that are have lived through that, like, you know, I have and Chris Lowe and Greg

382
00:31:19,637 --> 00:31:22,137
Skomol and Lisa and Dominique and stuff.

383
00:31:22,137 --> 00:31:25,331
You know, you you catch it at a conference or someplace, you know.

384
00:31:25,331 --> 00:31:25,705
Yeah.

385
00:31:25,705 --> 00:31:30,125
talked to us about, because I can tell you exactly firsthand experience.

386
00:31:30,125 --> 00:31:33,545
You're not really having to read a history book or something or guess what it is.

387
00:31:33,785 --> 00:31:35,525
We lived it.

388
00:31:35,525 --> 00:31:42,584
So you can get a better perspective on the whole thing, I think, you can talk to people.

389
00:31:43,585 --> 00:31:52,045
So that was some of the good, that was some of the highlights I thought we had for some of
the big issues that we had in big stories for 2025.

390
00:31:52,405 --> 00:31:53,076
Yep, yep.

391
00:31:53,076 --> 00:32:04,056
big story too, know, we, we, uh, to talk about, you know, beyond JAWS just in, in, in
general, um, you know, Spotify always comes out with their wrapped, uh, you know, and it

392
00:32:04,056 --> 00:32:13,361
looks, you know, you know, for users, if you're a subscriber to Spotify or if you use the
Spotify app, they come out with an app for those particular users and they talk about

393
00:32:13,361 --> 00:32:22,579
what shows you're a part of or what's your top your list or your top 10 whether it's music
or whether it's podcasts or what have you.

394
00:32:22,579 --> 00:32:28,124
But they also do it for podcasts and I assume they do it for music artists as well but
they do it for podcasts.

395
00:32:28,124 --> 00:32:36,811
So, David, let's talk a little bit about some of the things that Spotify, this is only on
the Spotify platform, but some of the things that we did.

396
00:32:36,811 --> 00:32:41,459
So, our total audience grew by almost 20%, by 18%.

397
00:32:41,459 --> 00:32:48,559
which is huge, you know, in the podcasting industry, especially these days when there are
so many podcasts out there that people could be listening to.

398
00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:56,239
We also had a total new audience actually increase from last year by over 600%, like 681%.

399
00:32:56,239 --> 00:32:58,219
That's a big number.

400
00:32:58,479 --> 00:33:03,699
Our follower count increased by 33%, which was great.

401
00:33:03,699 --> 00:33:11,639
Our listening time, if you look at it in minutes, it was over 80,500 minutes.

402
00:33:11,695 --> 00:33:19,018
If we look at days of listening, was actually 55 days of listening in terms of the total
amount of times that people listened to us, which was kind of cool.

403
00:33:19,018 --> 00:33:25,591
uh And then uh we had, what's this increase in total listening time from last year?

404
00:33:25,591 --> 00:33:27,362
was 8%, which was great.

405
00:33:27,362 --> 00:33:39,688
uh So yeah, and then it also talks about uh one of our most played episodes was uh Simon
Pierce, which had played 107,

406
00:33:39,688 --> 00:33:41,679
percent more than your average episode.

407
00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:48,956
So we talked about, you know, whale sharks and megafauna and conservation, m which was
which was really cool.

408
00:33:48,956 --> 00:33:51,088
A long friend of yours, right, Dave?

409
00:33:51,088 --> 00:33:57,763
Or, you know, with with the Marine Megafauna Foundation, which was huge.

410
00:33:57,763 --> 00:34:03,128
so, yeah, so that was that was pretty cool to be able to speak about that.

411
00:34:03,128 --> 00:34:05,249
And the new research that they came out about that.

412
00:34:05,249 --> 00:34:07,431
um And then we were

413
00:34:07,475 --> 00:34:13,935
We had 52 countries were reached on Spotify, which is really cool to be thought that we're
doing that.

414
00:34:13,935 --> 00:34:19,375
Germany, Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, and of course, the United States was number
one.

415
00:34:20,115 --> 00:34:23,435
We had, what else, our top fans.

416
00:34:23,435 --> 00:34:29,575
So we had 269 fans where we were part of the top 10 of their shows.

417
00:34:30,355 --> 00:34:34,095
We had 166 fans that were top five.

418
00:34:34,095 --> 00:34:35,275
And we had 45 fans.

419
00:34:35,275 --> 00:34:36,825
We were the number one show.

420
00:34:36,825 --> 00:34:42,869
on Spotify, so 45 people look to us first when they listen to their podcasts and that's
pretty cool.

421
00:34:42,869 --> 00:34:44,171
uh

422
00:34:44,338 --> 00:34:47,977
you tell me too we've had downloads from like 170 countries now too?

423
00:34:47,977 --> 00:34:50,552
Total, total, yeah.

424
00:34:50,622 --> 00:34:55,695
we're looking at all the apps and so far, yeah, and that's pretty cool too.

425
00:34:55,695 --> 00:34:57,316
Absolutely, absolutely.

426
00:34:57,316 --> 00:35:05,936
a pretty impressive figure to have in so much considering we just started this whole thing
as a concept about five years ago now and it's just really gone on and we're up to

427
00:35:05,936 --> 00:35:18,696
whatever, 130, 135 episodes now, considering I think from what you told me, most podcasts
sort of peter out at about 10 episodes and we've kind of been able to keep this thing

428
00:35:18,696 --> 00:35:18,954
going.

429
00:35:18,954 --> 00:35:25,948
right after about seven to 10 episodes, people will tend to, you know, basically pod fade.

430
00:35:25,948 --> 00:35:28,409
They stop they stop podcasting, which is kind of cool.

431
00:35:28,409 --> 00:35:30,830
Something like, you know, we're all we're on YouTube as well.

432
00:35:30,830 --> 00:35:38,593
So we had over twenty six thousand views on YouTube watch time of over a thousand uh watch
time hours.

433
00:35:38,693 --> 00:35:42,804
And then we also gained one hundred and twenty three subscribers this year.

434
00:35:42,804 --> 00:35:47,024
which is really cool to bring us up to 635 as of this recording.

435
00:35:47,024 --> 00:35:53,044
So if you haven't watched this, if you're a YouTube fan, you haven't watched this on
YouTube, you can go and subscribe to the YouTube channel.

436
00:35:53,044 --> 00:35:58,144
Just look up Beyond Jaws podcast and you'll be able to find it and you'll see our logo.

437
00:35:58,144 --> 00:36:01,304
It's the same logo we have on our audio podcast as well.

438
00:36:01,304 --> 00:36:05,544
so, so yeah, so 2025 was a pretty big year for us.

439
00:36:05,544 --> 00:36:11,195
And then of course in 2025, we also released your documentary series.

440
00:36:11,195 --> 00:36:14,386
which you want to talk a little bit about that?

441
00:36:14,386 --> 00:36:14,726
Yeah.

442
00:36:14,726 --> 00:36:24,879
Well, you know, kind of thanks to funding from the Save Our Seas Foundation, we started,
uh well, the original was a Keystone grant that I was basically, the grant is to raise

443
00:36:24,879 --> 00:36:30,220
awareness of lost sharks, these little known species that we talk about frequently.

444
00:36:30,261 --> 00:36:42,404
And uh as part of the thing, I wanted to have a, a bit of a video documentary series,
which we started, it's called Searching for Lost Sharks, Extinct or Alive.

445
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,902
And we got the first four episodes are posted now.

446
00:36:45,902 --> 00:36:48,803
And I have to say, it's been a amazing experience.

447
00:36:48,803 --> 00:36:51,995
was just something I had never thought about years ago.

448
00:36:51,995 --> 00:36:53,333
And I was started my career.

449
00:36:53,333 --> 00:37:01,050
I'd be sitting here now like doing documentary, but it's kind of cool because I can tell
the stories the way I think the story should be told for these little known species.

450
00:37:01,050 --> 00:37:04,502
And if you haven't caught them, please go there and please subscribe.

451
00:37:04,502 --> 00:37:09,325
We started, launched the first one in late January on the YouTube channel.

452
00:37:09,325 --> 00:37:12,476
I'm already up to three hundred eighty six subscribers.

453
00:37:12,557 --> 00:37:16,079
And it was amazing considering if you're just coming up in one year.

454
00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:18,419
maybe 15 at the beginning, right?

455
00:37:18,419 --> 00:37:19,679
Or something like that?

456
00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:20,679
Yeah.

457
00:37:21,259 --> 00:37:22,123
Yeah.

458
00:37:22,432 --> 00:37:24,732
And so I've just kind of really put it out there.

459
00:37:24,732 --> 00:37:28,192
I'm going to try and increase the put some more content up, I think, going into the new
year.

460
00:37:28,192 --> 00:37:30,672
And we're working on the initial series plan.

461
00:37:30,672 --> 00:37:32,592
We've got we've got about 10 episodes planned.

462
00:37:32,592 --> 00:37:34,812
We're working on episode five right now.

463
00:37:34,812 --> 00:37:38,052
It's taken a little longer because it was kind of a new thing for us.

464
00:37:38,052 --> 00:37:39,892
So it's taken a little bit of time to work through.

465
00:37:39,892 --> 00:37:41,772
But I hope you enjoy this episode.

466
00:37:41,772 --> 00:37:48,157
The last episode four has it talks a little bit about the story of finding new sharks, as
well as the story of

467
00:37:48,157 --> 00:37:51,738
how Jaws laid the foundation for modern shark research.

468
00:37:51,738 --> 00:38:01,092
And they're all, short stories are like anywhere from seven to 14 minutes, know, kind of
trying to average in around 10 minutes or so, the things, but just tell a little story on

469
00:38:01,092 --> 00:38:04,073
what's going on in the shark world and stuff.

470
00:38:04,073 --> 00:38:14,017
And we've got some more stuff planned, uh kept for in the coming year, and we'll be going
out and some of the plays you hear us talk about like more recently, Madagascar and stuff,

471
00:38:14,017 --> 00:38:17,544
we'll be talking, there'll be stories featuring on some of these.

472
00:38:17,544 --> 00:38:19,884
some of these different lost shark species.

473
00:38:20,204 --> 00:38:31,524
In fact, the last episode we talked about 10 new species discovered and stuff, yeah, so
it's kind of got some good, we talk about one species that may have, we haven't been able

474
00:38:31,524 --> 00:38:36,384
to find, might have gone extinct, but why one may have disappeared, we've found 10 new
ones.

475
00:38:36,964 --> 00:38:47,304
So check them out and please, and for both the Beyond Jaws and the Lost Shark Guy YouTube
channels, please subscribe, because it definitely helps.

476
00:38:47,420 --> 00:38:50,302
helps us with future support and everything.

477
00:38:50,422 --> 00:38:55,466
And Andrew, you've got a bit of a thing for your How to Protect the Ocean YouTube channel
too.

478
00:38:55,466 --> 00:38:56,567
Congratulations.

479
00:38:56,567 --> 00:38:57,549
uh

480
00:38:57,549 --> 00:38:57,960
I hit it.

481
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,291
I hit over a thousand.

482
00:38:59,291 --> 00:39:02,383
I hit the thousand subscriber mark, which is really, really cool.

483
00:39:02,383 --> 00:39:11,250
uh I hit the first monetization level for YouTube, which is I can do memberships, which
will be coming out soon, and I can do super chats, which I'm still trying to figure out.

484
00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:14,773
I'm not a I'm a YouTube user, but I don't do a lot of like lies.

485
00:39:14,773 --> 00:39:16,284
So super chats, apparently.

486
00:39:16,284 --> 00:39:20,035
people can pay to get their comments to go higher during like lives and things like that.

487
00:39:20,035 --> 00:39:23,346
So it's pretty cool to get to that level.

488
00:39:23,346 --> 00:39:33,058
I've been working on it for about a year and a half to really focus in on on YouTube as
well as the audio podcast is the same essentially.

489
00:39:33,099 --> 00:39:35,649
But I will be coming out with some more.

490
00:39:35,649 --> 00:39:45,907
We've got a podcast with Angelo Villa Gomez coming out in the new year called We've
tentatively named it Two Polar Bears and Flip Flops.

491
00:39:45,907 --> 00:39:51,850
because we look like the shapes of polar bears and we like to flip-flops, so we got that
as well.

492
00:39:51,850 --> 00:39:56,632
And that'll be a live podcast on the how to protect the ocean, or on the Speak Up for Blue
TV channel.

493
00:39:56,632 --> 00:39:58,522
And then, yeah, so it's gonna be fun.

494
00:39:58,522 --> 00:40:05,705
I'll be doing a bunch of lives as well, just kind of like encapsulating that oh and trying
to get more hours on the thing.

495
00:40:05,705 --> 00:40:07,887
So pretty cool to do.

496
00:40:07,887 --> 00:40:12,338
It obviously takes a lot of work uh and a lot of commitment to.

497
00:40:12,380 --> 00:40:21,394
keep consistent and continue to get views but you know again thank you for everybody who
supports not only beyond jaws and not only lost shark guy channel but also the speaker for

498
00:40:21,394 --> 00:40:32,799
blue TV channel because uh it's very important to both of us to have these channels and
and to be able to uh enjoy you know putting out content for science communication on an

499
00:40:32,799 --> 00:40:38,739
audio and video platform that that that's YouTube and as well as the audio podcasting
platform

500
00:40:38,739 --> 00:40:44,952
And please leave us comments either on our YouTube channels or you can always me hit up on
Instagram too.

501
00:40:44,952 --> 00:40:52,825
But yeah, please on the YouTube channels, leave comments because we're always interested
to hear, get feedback on both those things.

502
00:40:52,825 --> 00:40:57,497
so we're really kind of trying to, especially for me, Andrew's been in this world a little
longer than I have.

503
00:40:57,497 --> 00:41:01,698
It's just kind of for me, it's just it's kind of something new, new challenge.

504
00:41:01,698 --> 00:41:04,149
You know, if you're always trying to challenge yourself with some new things.

505
00:41:04,149 --> 00:41:06,300
And for me, this is definitely a completely new challenge for me.

506
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:08,465
And I'm enjoying it.

507
00:41:08,606 --> 00:41:10,009
it's a lot of fun.

508
00:41:10,024 --> 00:41:13,712
blame Andrew for it, it's like it's been a good, it's a good blame.

509
00:41:13,712 --> 00:41:15,234
So, it's like.

510
00:41:18,023 --> 00:41:18,763
Yeah.

511
00:41:18,964 --> 00:41:24,707
something we haven't really talked about that I feel like we need to talk about is a big
accolade for you, Dave.

512
00:41:24,707 --> 00:41:32,851
ah You did get an award this year, the Ed Ricketts Memorial Award, which is presented.

513
00:41:32,851 --> 00:41:36,870
by the research activity panel of the Monterey Bay National Aquarium.

514
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:39,431
Look at that, he's got it right up there, which is awesome.

515
00:41:39,431 --> 00:41:42,731
I'm gonna read out a bunch of stuff, because I think this is something that's really cool.

516
00:41:42,731 --> 00:41:49,291
It goes to individuals who have shown exemplary lifetime contributions to marine science,
conservation, and education.

517
00:41:49,291 --> 00:41:57,671
It is named after Ed Ricketts, a pioneering marine ecologist whose work and holistic
approach to natural history inspired generations of researchers.

518
00:41:57,671 --> 00:42:02,258
The award also includes an invited lecture, which has already happened, and you've posted.

519
00:42:02,258 --> 00:42:08,038
some videos on your YouTube channel at Lost Shark Guy lecture as part of the annual
ceremony.

520
00:42:08,038 --> 00:42:19,038
And in December 2025, you were honored with that award for your career long dedication to
shark science, taxonomy, conservation and public outreach.

521
00:42:19,038 --> 00:42:23,958
And the event was at the Sanctuary Exploration Center in Santa Cruz, which is really cool.

522
00:42:23,958 --> 00:42:26,798
Just a little bit about you that sometimes I didn't even know this.

523
00:42:26,798 --> 00:42:30,138
I knew you wrote a lot of books, not just like five.

524
00:42:30,138 --> 00:42:31,210
That's a lot.

525
00:42:31,258 --> 00:42:32,858
This is a crap ton.

526
00:42:32,858 --> 00:42:41,301
38 books that you have under your name uh and over 800 scientific publications.

527
00:42:41,301 --> 00:42:43,451
Dear Lord on sharks and related fishes.

528
00:42:43,451 --> 00:42:44,842
That's unbelievable.

529
00:42:44,842 --> 00:42:53,924
uh Serving in leadership roles such as the past president of the American Lasmanbrink
Society and an advisor to the IUN Shark Specialist Group and the United Nations Food and

530
00:42:53,924 --> 00:42:55,924
Agricultural Organization.

531
00:42:56,005 --> 00:43:01,274
Appearing on television including BBC, Discovery Channel, National Geographic,

532
00:43:01,274 --> 00:43:09,040
and is a regular on Shark Week, uh leading expedition and the Good Shark Week, part of the
Good Shark Week, not these like bad ones, but the good ones.

533
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:19,399
uh Leading expeditions in search of some of the world's rarest shark species, co-hosting
Beyond Jaw's podcast, founding of the Lost Sharks Project, and of course, producing the

534
00:43:19,399 --> 00:43:24,114
documentary series searching for lost sharks extinct or alive, which we've talked about.

535
00:43:24,114 --> 00:43:25,153
So this is a big award.

536
00:43:25,153 --> 00:43:30,872
It recognizes scientists who have a significantly uh advanced knowledge, appreciation, and
protection.

537
00:43:30,872 --> 00:43:36,305
of the marine environment while also excelling in communication, mentorship and
collaboration.

538
00:43:36,305 --> 00:43:38,606
think a lot of your students can agree on that.

539
00:43:38,606 --> 00:43:39,417
Dr.

540
00:43:39,417 --> 00:43:48,652
Ebert's or Dave's work aligns with those goals because of both technical research and his
efforts to bring sharks into a broader public understanding.

541
00:43:48,652 --> 00:43:50,973
uh Congratulations.

542
00:43:50,973 --> 00:43:53,454
Like this is amazing, dude.

543
00:43:53,454 --> 00:43:57,597
A lifetime achievement award, you know, that's a huge honor.

544
00:43:57,597 --> 00:44:00,753
Like that's a huge thing and very well deserved.

545
00:44:00,753 --> 00:44:12,321
uh You know coming from you like from me like that your friend and somebody I look up to
to see you get that award and get your accolades and get your flowers is really important

546
00:44:12,321 --> 00:44:13,632
and it's definitely deserved.

547
00:44:13,632 --> 00:44:18,175
How did well first of all how do feel about the ward and then tell us how the lecture
went?

548
00:44:18,811 --> 00:44:20,052
I feel great about it.

549
00:44:20,052 --> 00:44:29,418
It was completely unexpected because I mean, I've been aware of the award and some pretty
very prominent people have received this award over the year.

550
00:44:29,418 --> 00:44:33,421
think it's first first was awarded in 1986, but it's a very prominent people.

551
00:44:33,421 --> 00:44:43,818
so to be kind of considering the same breath as many of these other legends in the field
of marine science and conservation and education was just amazing.

552
00:44:43,818 --> 00:44:48,091
was like, I was floored when I, when they, when I was contacted and told I was

553
00:44:48,227 --> 00:44:51,528
I was I was was been awarded for this uh for this thing.

554
00:44:51,528 --> 00:44:53,369
was just it was just amazing.

555
00:44:53,389 --> 00:45:00,192
And then I gave up I gave a presentation at the Sanctuary Exploration Center on December
10th.

556
00:45:00,252 --> 00:45:02,153
And it's going to be they're going to have it.

557
00:45:02,153 --> 00:45:05,984
The thing will be posted um online in the coming weeks.

558
00:45:05,984 --> 00:45:06,815
They didn't have it.

559
00:45:06,815 --> 00:45:07,925
We're coming into the holidays.

560
00:45:07,925 --> 00:45:08,926
They weren't sure exactly.

561
00:45:08,926 --> 00:45:13,147
But I'll when that's up, I definitely will be posted on my social media contacts.

562
00:45:13,147 --> 00:45:16,029
They'll have the full the full lecture it will have on there.

563
00:45:16,029 --> 00:45:17,255
And if you want to.

564
00:45:17,255 --> 00:45:29,105
kind of get a whole tour de force on how not to become a shark scientist, listen to it,
because I kind of give the whole, I kind of give the snapshot overview of how I went from

565
00:45:29,105 --> 00:45:38,953
getting a childhood fascination and turning into a lifelong career and all the ups and
downs and as you know, Andrew, from the people we've had on here, it's never a straight

566
00:45:38,953 --> 00:45:42,776
trajectory and that's the thing I pass along to young people.

567
00:45:42,776 --> 00:45:47,129
It's not gonna be, if you want to do this or go into whatever field you choose,

568
00:45:47,193 --> 00:45:57,576
it won't be a straight trajectory, but if you're, I always tell people if you're, if you
have a positive attitude, if you're driven, you're focused, you're persistent, and above

569
00:45:57,576 --> 00:46:06,628
all, passionate, you'll go a long way in life, and I'm definitely that, fall into that
category, because I mean, I have a lot of professors and teachers that are probably

570
00:46:06,628 --> 00:46:14,822
rolling in their graves now, in a good way, um from where I was to where I've come, but I
I stayed focused my whole life, and.

571
00:46:14,822 --> 00:46:16,602
knew what the goal, where I wanted to go.

572
00:46:16,602 --> 00:46:20,142
that's again, that's the best advice I could share with younger people.

573
00:46:20,482 --> 00:46:31,662
And if I could share one quick story here, before we go, I told you about we're talking
off air, but in my presentation, when you have a chance to listen to it, really changed

574
00:46:31,662 --> 00:46:39,682
the trajectory of my life was when I was finishing my bachelor's degree at Humboldt State
University, I literally had a cup of coffee.

575
00:46:39,682 --> 00:46:42,622
I ran into a professor I knew there, asked me what I was gonna do.

576
00:46:42,622 --> 00:46:43,558
And I said, well, I was gonna go.

577
00:46:43,558 --> 00:46:45,458
study sharks and travel the world.

578
00:46:45,458 --> 00:46:47,098
You know, I was like 20, 21.

579
00:46:47,098 --> 00:46:48,118
I what I know.

580
00:46:48,118 --> 00:46:49,678
You know, I 21, 22.

581
00:46:49,918 --> 00:46:52,238
And he said, well, let's go have a cup of coffee.

582
00:46:52,878 --> 00:46:56,918
And over that cup of coffee, he convinced me that I should go to grad school.

583
00:46:56,918 --> 00:46:58,598
And I about passed out.

584
00:46:58,598 --> 00:46:59,898
I was like, are you kidding me?

585
00:46:59,898 --> 00:47:03,038
I'm just going to be happy getting a B I barely got through a bachelor's degree.

586
00:47:03,038 --> 00:47:06,858
And you're talking about graduate school and nobody in my family had ever been to grads.

587
00:47:06,858 --> 00:47:11,888
It was completely, I'd no one in my, no thing, but that, that caught that.

588
00:47:11,888 --> 00:47:17,721
Cup of coffee changed my trajectory because I ended up, I went to grad school, I talked to
Greg Kaie.

589
00:47:17,721 --> 00:47:18,631
My grades weren't great.

590
00:47:18,631 --> 00:47:21,562
I was not like, you know, gonna go there.

591
00:47:21,562 --> 00:47:26,184
Greg gave me an opportunity to go to study under him at Moss Landing.

592
00:47:26,184 --> 00:47:37,870
I went there, I persisted, and during my time as a grad student at Moss Landing, I met
Leonard Campagno, which again changed the trajectory of my life because the story I've

593
00:47:37,870 --> 00:47:39,193
told this before, but.

594
00:47:39,193 --> 00:47:44,284
Literally as he was heading off to South Africa and Leonard's from San Francisco and I
knew him when he was there.

595
00:47:44,284 --> 00:47:48,806
As he left for South Africa, I just asked him like, hey, do you anybody to carry your
bags?

596
00:47:48,806 --> 00:48:00,499
It was that simple a question and it turned into, it was literally that question and eight
months later he called me up and said he had a PhD position and off I went to South Africa

597
00:48:00,499 --> 00:48:06,240
and the rest is sort of history but it all came from a cup of coffee with a professor at
Humboldt State.

598
00:48:06,682 --> 00:48:07,138
Unreal.

599
00:48:07,138 --> 00:48:09,238
to all that whole thing.

600
00:48:10,158 --> 00:48:12,718
And these days I'm gonna write my memoirs and stuff.

601
00:48:12,718 --> 00:48:14,078
I'll get a little more detail on it.

602
00:48:14,078 --> 00:48:25,598
But literally, I can't state enough that sometimes it's something as simple as like a cup
of coffee with somebody changes, have such a profound influence on your life.

603
00:48:26,498 --> 00:48:28,218
And that was me.

604
00:48:28,498 --> 00:48:31,498
And the professor at Hubbell was John Demartini.

605
00:48:31,498 --> 00:48:33,358
was an invertebrate professor there.

606
00:48:33,818 --> 00:48:36,447
That cup of coffee changed my whole direction in life.

607
00:48:36,447 --> 00:48:38,191
So you never know.

608
00:48:38,191 --> 00:48:39,362
It's all about networking.

609
00:48:39,362 --> 00:48:40,793
It's all about meeting new people.

610
00:48:40,793 --> 00:48:49,617
It's getting to know your professors, having coffee with them, having a good professional
relationship with them just getting to know them.

611
00:48:49,617 --> 00:49:02,352
And the stories that uh we have, that we tell or have people on to tell are the stories
that people share with each other when they meet uh for coffee or they meet at a

612
00:49:02,352 --> 00:49:03,557
conference or...

613
00:49:03,557 --> 00:49:10,080
These are the stories where you're just chilling out, you're relaxing, and then you never
know what conversations will come up and what opportunities will come up.

614
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:17,804
And I feel like that is the huge thing that people don't realize just by engaging with
their professors.

615
00:49:17,804 --> 00:49:23,436
And there's so many myths about people like, you know, professors are intimidating, want,
they, you know, they just have to get you.

616
00:49:23,436 --> 00:49:25,207
It's not at all like that.

617
00:49:25,207 --> 00:49:29,595
This is about coming at you, trying to help you.

618
00:49:29,595 --> 00:49:33,777
They become your colleagues after a while and you just never know what might happen.

619
00:49:33,777 --> 00:49:35,357
So we'll end it on that.

620
00:49:35,357 --> 00:49:39,729
But Dave, congratulations on the Ed Ricketts Memorial Award.

621
00:49:39,729 --> 00:49:41,010
Much deserved.

622
00:49:41,010 --> 00:49:47,272
you know, you obviously belong in that prestigious uh names of people who have won it in
the past.

623
00:49:47,332 --> 00:49:49,243
And I'm sure there will be more in the future.

624
00:49:49,243 --> 00:49:57,396
Probably people that you've had an influence, especially within the shark science degree
and all the people that have been on this podcast so far have had an influence on like

625
00:49:57,396 --> 00:49:57,606
that.

626
00:49:57,606 --> 00:49:59,577
Josh Generations and more.

627
00:49:59,633 --> 00:50:01,545
to be able to do that.

628
00:50:01,545 --> 00:50:07,059
mean, 800, over 800 scientific publications and 38, you know, books.

629
00:50:07,059 --> 00:50:07,860
is unreal.

630
00:50:07,860 --> 00:50:10,722
And probably still counting, because I know we've talked.

631
00:50:10,722 --> 00:50:13,634
There's something that works and there's more coming.

632
00:50:13,634 --> 00:50:15,006
So that's awesome.

633
00:50:15,006 --> 00:50:20,991
anyway, again, thank you to everybody for listening to us over this past year.

634
00:50:20,991 --> 00:50:24,013
We can't wait to, you know, get started on 2026.

635
00:50:24,013 --> 00:50:29,297
We'll have more guests, new guests, old, like guests who have been on in the past.

636
00:50:29,297 --> 00:50:33,577
We're going be talking more about shark research and shark conservation.

637
00:50:34,017 --> 00:50:36,877
You know, you never know what we're going to be up to in 2026.

638
00:50:36,877 --> 00:50:38,957
But we want to thank you for supporting us.

639
00:50:38,957 --> 00:50:47,797
Thank you for subscribing and following and sharing with other of your colleagues or
people you think are going to, you know, benefit from this because this is a big deal to

640
00:50:47,797 --> 00:50:49,377
us and we want to serve you.

641
00:50:49,377 --> 00:50:51,917
We want to make sure that you enjoy it as well.

642
00:50:51,917 --> 00:50:53,937
So Dave, can't wait for 2026.

643
00:50:53,937 --> 00:50:55,157
It was a great 2025.

644
00:50:55,157 --> 00:50:56,897
Looking forward to looking in the future.

645
00:50:56,976 --> 00:50:58,370
Yep, yep, and happy new year.

646
00:50:58,370 --> 00:50:59,781
Happy new year, everybody.

647
00:50:59,781 --> 00:51:00,877
Happy New Year for sure.

648
00:51:00,877 --> 00:51:03,297
All right, we'll talk to you soon.

649
00:51:05,998 --> 00:51:07,389
Alright!