March 22, 2026
What Scientists Just Discovered About Tiger Shark Migration
Tiger sharks are some of the most recognizable predators in the ocean, but scientists are still uncovering how these animals move through their environment.
In this episode of Beyond Jaws, marine scientist Dr. Rachel Graham shares insights from tiger shark tracking research that is helping scientists understand how these sharks migrate, where they spend their time, and why these movements matter for conservation.
By following tiger sharks across the ocean, researchers are revealing patterns that challenge what we thought we knew about shark behavior. These discoveries are helping scientists design better conservation strategies and understand the role tiger sharks play in maintaining healthy ocean ecosystems.
If you care about sharks, ocean science, and marine conservation, this conversation offers a fascinating look into the real lives of one of the ocean’s most iconic predators.
Subscribe for more shark science and conservation stories on Beyond Jaws.
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Welcome back to another episode of the
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Beyond Jaws podcast.
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On today's episode, we're gonna be
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talking to Rachel Graham,
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who's here to tell us about a study
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where they recorded
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the longest Transatlantic
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Tiger Shark migration ever.
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And it's 18,000 kilometers
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there and back from Cape Verde
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to Brazil and then back.
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It's gonna be an exciting episode
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because this is
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something that is groundbreaking.
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So it's groundbreaking news, news update.
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We're gonna talk to Rachel.
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Let's start the show.
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Hey everybody, welcome back
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to another exciting episode
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of the Beyond Jaws podcast.
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I'm your cohost, Andrew
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Loewen here with my cohost,
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Dr. David Ebert.
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Dave, the largest Transatlantic migration
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that we've seen a Tiger Shark do.
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This is the second longest migration
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that we've seen a Tiger Shark do.
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When you get a shark
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like this to do what it does
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or you discover a shark can do this,
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like from a scientific perspective,
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what goes through your mind?
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Like, does your heart
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start palpitating and stuff?
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Like what goes through that?
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Well, what it tells
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you is these large sharks
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like the White Shark and the Tiger Shark,
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they use immense portions of the ocean
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for their migratory routes.
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And so you really
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have this thing crossing
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across the Atlantic and back, you know,
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it's 18,000 kilometers.
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It's phenomenal movement pattern.
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And you know, the one
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hand it's not surprising
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because it's a big shark doing that,
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but at the same time, you
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really get an appreciation
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for like, wow, these
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things can really cover
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a lot of ground.
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And I think like with the
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White Shark a few years ago,
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and we realized like in
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the Pacific that they migrate
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from say California
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out to Hawaii seasonally,
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you really get an
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appreciation for just how far,
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how much territory
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these things can cover.
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And so in terms of
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like from a conservation
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or from a management stuff, you're
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basically starting to,
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you're in an area of like, you know,
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international jurisdictions beyond boundaries
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or I'm not using the right term,
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but basically it's international water.
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The high seas.
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The high seas.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And stuff.
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And but you want to, but you know, also
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like where these things go,
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because they're certainly not catching
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them that frequently out there.
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You might get the odd one here and there,
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but so they probably are moving at depth.
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So they're beyond any typical type of
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fishing areas as a
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transit across the Atlantic or
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in the Pacific, which had an
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even longer migratory route.
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But you also can get
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an idea like, you know,
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at this time of year, these tiger sharks
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are probably going to show up.
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In this location or that location, which
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is really kind of cool to see.
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So, yeah, I'm excited about it.
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I'm excited to hear about
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Rachel's story about this.
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And it's been a while
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since she's been on the show.
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So it'll be good to
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catch up with her in general.
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Absolutely. And just a spoiler alert, she
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did have another story that we're going
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to be posting in a few episodes time.
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So, you know, if you want to, if people
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here want to listen to that,
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they don't want to miss it.
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Just hit that follow button or subscribe
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button, depending on where you're
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listening to this episode.
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Let's how about we start the interview
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with Rachel Graham and get into it and
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find out all the different,
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the juicy details of how this study began
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and what they found and what that's
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that's going to tell us about with our
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conservation in the future. So here is
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the interview with Rachel Graham.
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Enjoy. We'll talk to you after. Hey,
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Rachel, welcome back to
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the Beyond Jaws podcast.
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Are you ready to talk about tiger sharks?
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Oh, I am so ready. Andrew and Dave, it's
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lovely to be here again.
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Thank you for having me
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on your show. I love it.
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We can't wait.
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Well, we have another episode of Beyond
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Jaws podcast with a powerhouse guest
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today who has been on our show on our
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17th episode back in
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March of 2022. She's a real true
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entrepreneur and a real pioneer.
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We have the fabulous Dr.
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Rachel Graham on the show today.
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In fact, she has so much
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to share with us today.
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We're going to make this into two
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episodes, which will be airing soon.
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Rachel, just for quick background, she's
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the founder and director of the Mar
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Alliance organization,
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which is a science based
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conservation organization with field
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stations in Belize, Panama, Honduras,
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Mexico, Micronesia, Cabo
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San Luc, no Cabo Verde.
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And probably a few other places that I'm
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forgetting right now. Rachel has her BSC
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in zoology from Oxford,
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an MSC from Edinburgh and a
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PhD from the University of York in the
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UK. She's worked at a number of places,
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including the U.N.,
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the University of York,
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Smithsonian Wildlife Conservation
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Society. And she's
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literally worked all over the world.
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And she's founded the
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Mar Alliance in 2014.
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And she really made a name for herself.
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We're studying whale sharks.
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And she did the first PhD thesis on whale
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sharks from a research in Belize.
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And they say she's a real entrepreneur.
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She had a paper come out on tiger shark
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movements in the Atlantic.
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So we thought it was
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time to have her back on.
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Long overdue. Rachel, welcome back.
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Thank you. It's a joy to be back.
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And it's great to be able to talk about
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something else that has
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stripes, not just whale sharks.
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Yeah, that's great.
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So so why don't you just tell us, tell
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us, tell us about your study and about
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these amazing findings you have.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So one of the reasons why this study came
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into prominence is that a
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couple of different reasons.
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But the main one is that we were doing a
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large baseline survey in Cape Verde.
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This is with local fishers, our national
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coordinators, Eddie Seymour and our
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communications officer, Cynthia Lima.
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And what we were finding in this baseline
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survey is a whole really fantastic
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diversity of sharks around the
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archipelago of Cape Verde,
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especially the eastern islands Salvo,
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Vista and Mayo, using primarily baited
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remote underwater videos.
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But what was popping up
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occasionally were also tiger sharks.
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And, you know, we decided we were going
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to follow up on some of the bruv
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sightings with some
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scientific long lines.
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So our standardized long line protocol
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short soak 90, no more than 90 minutes
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standardized, made at
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circle hooks, et cetera.
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And we decided to give it a try up in the
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island of Salvo, where tiger sharks have
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been caught by fishermen,
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sometimes dragged to the
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tourist docks shown off.
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I've got some rather egregious pictures
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of tourists like hauling back the heads
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of of tiger sharks and all the rest.
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And we thought, you know, there's not a
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lot known about tiger sharks in West
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Africa, especially not in Cape Verde.
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And so that kind of kick
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started our study there.
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And what we found dumbfounded us because
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as soon as we were dropping these long
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lines, it wasn't four
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minutes before the first
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tiger shark would hit. Then
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number two, then number three.
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I mean, it just kind of went on.
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And so what we what we did is we really
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wanted to understand,
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well, why are they there?
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What's your spatial
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ecology and so much more?
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And so we ended up satellite tagging a
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whole host of them, actually 12, to be to
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be precise and not just in Salve, but in
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some other areas of Cape Verde.
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And the big finding is that they're not
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just sticking to Cape Verde, which is,
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you know, not that much of a surprise,
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but the cherry on the surprise cake was
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the a large three
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meter plus female tiger.
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When we actually tagged in Boa Vista.
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Deciding she was going
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to hot foot it to Brazil.
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I guess she thought the Kypereanias were
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better there than in Cape Verde.
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And she ended up doing yes, exactly.
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She ended up doing this incredible voyage
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going very close to where we had sharks
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International Jean Passot and his see,
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and then Fernando de Noronja and and kind
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of ambled around there for a
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little while before actually
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returning to Cape Verde and waters and
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that entire journey spent almost 18,000
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kilometers and about 404 days, which when
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I was doing a quick calculation, that's
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like moving 44 kilometers a day.
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So you're booking it.
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You have to have a
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somehow a sense of purpose.
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And in fact, you can see that
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the journey is quite directed.
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So of course, that raised a ton of
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questions about, well, is she going there
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to me? Is she going there to pop?
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And of course, confirming that
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transatlantic crossing that had never
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been fully confirmed previously, it had
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been hinted at, but never.
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And it was a double transatlantic.
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So thankfully, that satellite tag worked
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long enough for us to see that these
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animals really need entire ocean basins
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in order to fulfill
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their lifecycle requirements.
273
01:08:50,750 --> 01:08:52,833
Did you know that there was such a
274
01:08:52,833 --> 01:08:55,041
population of tiger sharks are initially
275
01:08:55,041 --> 01:08:57,250
because not some I mean, just people know
276
01:08:57,250 --> 01:08:58,083
that Cape Verde's are just
277
01:08:58,083 --> 01:08:59,500
off sort of Northwest Africa.
278
01:08:59,750 --> 01:09:00,625
Look on a map.
279
01:09:01,291 --> 01:09:02,791
But I mean, there's so
280
01:09:02,791 --> 01:09:03,583
little known out there.
281
01:09:03,583 --> 01:09:05,583
I had no idea there was there was such a
282
01:09:05,583 --> 01:09:08,083
these tiger sharks were there any number.
283
01:09:08,083 --> 01:09:09,666
So this was really new to us.
284
01:09:10,208 --> 01:09:13,708
So we started work kind of 2015 2016 and
285
01:09:13,708 --> 01:09:16,083
and as I mentioned, we did a beta remote
286
01:09:16,083 --> 01:09:16,958
underwater survey,
287
01:09:16,958 --> 01:09:18,083
which is actually published.
288
01:09:18,083 --> 01:09:20,208
It's up on our website, Mar lines.org.
289
01:09:20,208 --> 01:09:21,833
If you look under resources, we try to
290
01:09:21,833 --> 01:09:22,791
make our papers available.
291
01:09:23,541 --> 01:09:25,250
So because, you know,
292
01:09:26,750 --> 01:09:28,250
people need to access data.
293
01:09:28,500 --> 01:09:30,791
And so it makes it easy for everybody to
294
01:09:30,791 --> 01:09:33,416
be able to see what's been done in,
295
01:09:33,416 --> 01:09:34,833
especially in tropical countries where
296
01:09:34,833 --> 01:09:36,208
you can't afford these subscriptions.
297
01:09:36,791 --> 01:09:40,875
So that's another thing to discuss on
298
01:09:40,875 --> 01:09:44,166
another podcast in another day is access
299
01:09:44,166 --> 01:09:45,083
the information
300
01:09:45,083 --> 01:09:46,833
democratization of science.
301
01:09:47,458 --> 01:09:51,458
But with respect to to tiger sharks and
302
01:09:51,458 --> 01:09:53,583
Cape Verde, you know, based on those
303
01:09:53,583 --> 01:09:56,000
initial pieces of work, we started
304
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,125
hearing also we did fishermen surveys.
305
01:09:58,916 --> 01:10:01,916
All the way back when back in 2016 and
306
01:10:01,916 --> 01:10:03,458
some of the information that was rolling
307
01:10:03,458 --> 01:10:05,666
in was, you know, there are these catches
308
01:10:05,666 --> 01:10:09,125
and that's a catch of tiger sharks.
309
01:10:09,416 --> 01:10:11,708
And that's really what put a B in in
310
01:10:11,708 --> 01:10:13,416
Dettie's bonnet and my bonnet.
311
01:10:13,750 --> 01:10:15,708
And we said, let's go and figure it out.
312
01:10:15,708 --> 01:10:18,750
And so the following the following
313
01:10:18,750 --> 01:10:21,458
summer, which is the the period of time
314
01:10:21,458 --> 01:10:22,916
in Cape Verde, when you have some of the
315
01:10:22,916 --> 01:10:23,958
calmest waters,
316
01:10:23,958 --> 01:10:25,208
because it can be very rough.
317
01:10:25,208 --> 01:10:27,958
We're talking about the eastern Atlantic
318
01:10:27,958 --> 01:10:29,750
directly west from Senegal.
319
01:10:30,125 --> 01:10:30,708
And, you know, when you're
320
01:10:30,708 --> 01:10:32,125
out there, you're out there.
321
01:10:32,125 --> 01:10:34,208
You better hope that your boat has two
322
01:10:34,208 --> 01:10:37,083
engines because you're really out in the
323
01:10:37,083 --> 01:10:39,125
middle of the Atlantic practically in
324
01:10:39,125 --> 01:10:40,208
what it feels that way.
325
01:10:41,375 --> 01:10:43,708
So, yes. And that's why we
326
01:10:43,708 --> 01:10:46,250
focus that survey on tigers.
327
01:10:46,666 --> 01:10:48,666
The other reason, too, is that we were
328
01:10:48,666 --> 01:10:50,416
seeing an increase in
329
01:10:50,416 --> 01:10:52,625
fishing effort on sharks.
330
01:10:53,458 --> 01:10:56,208
And it's one of the reasons why we were
331
01:10:56,208 --> 01:10:58,583
concerned that there was
332
01:10:58,583 --> 01:11:00,791
ramping up of shark fishing.
333
01:11:01,500 --> 01:11:03,291
And at the same time, there was a need
334
01:11:03,291 --> 01:11:07,000
for more information based on the
335
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,833
national action plan for sharks that had
336
01:11:09,833 --> 01:11:13,583
been that was kind of under in the works
337
01:11:13,583 --> 01:11:16,666
by Mika Jopin Senegal, who had been hired
338
01:11:16,666 --> 01:11:17,750
by the Cape Verdean
339
01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:19,208
government to help them with that.
340
01:11:19,250 --> 01:11:22,916
I have to ask you because Cape Verde,
341
01:11:22,916 --> 01:11:24,541
I've actually been there, but it's
342
01:11:24,541 --> 01:11:26,083
because it's in the middle of nowhere.
343
01:11:26,291 --> 01:11:27,541
Litter. It's like some rocks in the
344
01:11:27,541 --> 01:11:29,666
middle of the ocean. Yeah. How did you
345
01:11:29,666 --> 01:11:32,958
happen to like stumble on to thinking
346
01:11:32,958 --> 01:11:34,500
this would be an interesting place to
347
01:11:34,500 --> 01:11:35,666
study the sharks out there?
348
01:11:36,416 --> 01:11:38,000
So it's funny, you should say, ha.
349
01:11:39,625 --> 01:11:42,416
I've as I started my career in 98 with
350
01:11:42,416 --> 01:11:44,666
whale sharks, I was always looking to see
351
01:11:44,666 --> 01:11:47,250
where are whale sharks going. And what I
352
01:11:47,250 --> 01:11:48,708
was seeing is whale sharks are moving
353
01:11:48,708 --> 01:11:51,416
from one feeding site to the next and
354
01:11:51,416 --> 01:11:53,041
starting to see these patterns of
355
01:11:53,041 --> 01:11:55,458
connectivity migration and connectivity
356
01:11:55,458 --> 01:11:56,541
movement connectivity
357
01:11:56,541 --> 01:11:58,750
in the Western Atlantic.
358
01:11:59,208 --> 01:12:01,458
And that's how I pulled together a whole
359
01:12:01,458 --> 01:12:03,333
bunch of different researchers who might
360
01:12:03,333 --> 01:12:05,333
be interested in working on whale sharks
361
01:12:05,333 --> 01:12:08,250
from the Flower Garden Banks National
362
01:12:08,250 --> 01:12:11,458
Marine Sanctuary to Holbox Cancun,
363
01:12:11,916 --> 01:12:14,208
Honduras, Cuba and more.
364
01:12:14,208 --> 01:12:17,000
And it's actually whale sharks that
365
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,833
initially got me interested in Cape Verde
366
01:12:19,833 --> 01:12:22,583
because I was looking at the whole
367
01:12:22,583 --> 01:12:26,416
Western the whole West Africa eat and
368
01:12:26,416 --> 01:12:30,333
from, I don't know, a Western Sahara all
369
01:12:30,333 --> 01:12:32,625
the way down to Angola. What's the status
370
01:12:32,625 --> 01:12:33,791
of whale sharks and even
371
01:12:33,791 --> 01:12:35,208
manta rays then we didn't know.
372
01:12:35,250 --> 01:12:39,000
So I started looking into what patterns
373
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:43,250
of movement might be elucidated there.
374
01:12:44,666 --> 01:12:47,958
And so at that time, I went originally to
375
01:12:47,958 --> 01:12:50,000
try and study some of the whale sharks
376
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,583
and the manta rays. And then, of course,
377
01:12:52,791 --> 01:12:54,416
through the fisher surveys and the bruv
378
01:12:54,416 --> 01:12:57,166
surveys, we stumbled across all these
379
01:12:57,166 --> 01:12:59,208
other species, tiger sharks,
380
01:12:59,250 --> 01:13:01,500
a spirit of Luini, the scalloped
381
01:13:01,500 --> 01:13:05,083
hammerhead, the regionally endemic
382
01:13:05,083 --> 01:13:09,916
perigailous shark as well. So yeah, so
383
01:13:09,916 --> 01:13:14,291
really, really, whale sharks kind of lead
384
01:13:14,291 --> 01:13:17,750
you to all kinds of other open doors. And
385
01:13:17,750 --> 01:13:19,500
for that, I'm very grateful. And we've
386
01:13:19,500 --> 01:13:21,791
got actually work coming out on the whale
387
01:13:21,791 --> 01:13:23,625
sharks, because we did a lot of work on
388
01:13:23,625 --> 01:13:24,208
the whale sharks
389
01:13:24,208 --> 01:13:25,208
while we were there, too.
390
01:13:25,208 --> 01:13:27,958
Go figure. We've done the manta rays, you
391
01:13:27,958 --> 01:13:31,125
know, fisheries, tiger sharks and whale
392
01:13:31,125 --> 01:13:33,625
sharks as well. So yes, whale sharks led
393
01:13:33,625 --> 01:13:35,291
us to the tiger sharks.
394
01:13:35,500 --> 01:13:37,958
So, so, so there is quite a bit of a
395
01:13:37,958 --> 01:13:39,458
fishery there and you've been documenting
396
01:13:39,458 --> 01:13:40,750
I presume the species that have been
397
01:13:40,750 --> 01:13:42,875
catching it. We got whale sharks, got
398
01:13:42,875 --> 01:13:45,041
tiger sharks, perigailous out there,
399
01:13:45,416 --> 01:13:46,375
which are weasel sharks.
400
01:13:47,666 --> 01:13:50,208
Did you just off the top, just kind of
401
01:13:50,208 --> 01:13:53,458
more of my question is what how many
402
01:13:53,458 --> 01:13:54,333
species of sharks and
403
01:13:54,333 --> 01:13:55,625
rays do you have out there?
404
01:13:56,375 --> 01:13:59,166
I, you know, I should have that number
405
01:13:59,166 --> 01:14:01,416
off the top of my head and I can't answer
406
01:14:01,416 --> 01:14:02,625
you off the top of my head.
407
01:14:02,625 --> 01:14:05,666
Okay, I should I should I just prep study
408
01:14:05,666 --> 01:14:08,541
for the show. I've got to ask those
409
01:14:08,541 --> 01:14:10,166
questions. I just like Dave. Dave's
410
01:14:10,166 --> 01:14:11,000
always like, is there any
411
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:12,208
more sharks I could look for?
412
01:14:12,208 --> 01:14:15,750
Can I discover them? So you definitely,
413
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:17,166
you know, you definitely have you
414
01:14:17,166 --> 01:14:19,583
definitely have a center for us. You've
415
01:14:19,583 --> 01:14:20,916
got fisheries for those. I'd seen
416
01:14:20,916 --> 01:14:23,333
pictures of that ages ago. So we
417
01:14:23,333 --> 01:14:26,791
definitely based on how the archipelago
418
01:14:26,791 --> 01:14:30,500
is is situated and you've got very deep
419
01:14:30,500 --> 01:14:32,875
waters around Cape Verde.
420
01:14:33,208 --> 01:14:34,791
You do have deep water
421
01:14:34,791 --> 01:14:37,250
fisheries and you have deep water.
422
01:14:38,458 --> 01:14:40,500
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's kind
423
01:14:40,500 --> 01:14:42,250
of like I said, it's one of those places
424
01:14:42,250 --> 01:14:44,208
like you would just wouldn't know about
425
01:14:44,208 --> 01:14:46,083
unless you've been there or familiar with
426
01:14:46,083 --> 01:14:47,375
that area or you're looking for whale
427
01:14:47,375 --> 01:14:48,541
sharks, I guess, as
428
01:14:48,541 --> 01:14:49,791
well to kind of stumble.
429
01:14:50,250 --> 01:14:52,791
But you know, the fishes were catching
430
01:14:52,791 --> 01:14:55,000
everything from spinners and black tips
431
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,541
and and a lot of scalloped hammerheads.
432
01:14:58,375 --> 01:15:01,875
They seem to form a lot of the a lot of
433
01:15:01,875 --> 01:15:04,666
the shark oriented fisheries in near
434
01:15:04,666 --> 01:15:05,625
shore coastal waters
435
01:15:05,625 --> 01:15:06,916
because there's another thing too.
436
01:15:07,250 --> 01:15:09,208
There's two classes of fishers. So it's a
437
01:15:09,208 --> 01:15:11,625
small scale fisher who usually has a tiny
438
01:15:11,625 --> 01:15:13,791
little engine like a 15 horsepower or 40
439
01:15:13,791 --> 01:15:16,125
horsepower. So, and they're only really
440
01:15:16,125 --> 01:15:18,666
allowed to actually fish within the
441
01:15:18,666 --> 01:15:20,875
waters of the island where they're
442
01:15:20,875 --> 01:15:23,583
situated. Whereas some of the kind of
443
01:15:23,583 --> 01:15:26,333
midsize more industrial commercial
444
01:15:26,333 --> 01:15:30,125
fishers actually hot between islands.
445
01:15:30,250 --> 01:15:32,208
They're not really supposed to overlap
446
01:15:32,208 --> 01:15:34,291
with the small scale fishers and there's
447
01:15:34,291 --> 01:15:38,083
near shore waters, but unfortunately they
448
01:15:38,083 --> 01:15:40,916
do and that's a conflict that we saw
449
01:15:40,916 --> 01:15:42,708
increasing over time.
450
01:15:43,208 --> 01:15:44,541
Those fishers are more low, but they're
451
01:15:44,541 --> 01:15:46,125
local fishers. Do you have they have much
452
01:15:46,125 --> 01:15:47,791
impact for it? Do you have like foreign
453
01:15:47,791 --> 01:15:48,750
fleets coming into
454
01:15:48,750 --> 01:15:49,208
fishing the waters there?
455
01:15:50,208 --> 01:15:52,083
So there are I mean, there are a host of
456
01:15:52,083 --> 01:15:54,750
foreign fleets in much further away. So
457
01:15:54,750 --> 01:15:56,583
that's one of the things that we were
458
01:15:56,583 --> 01:15:58,416
concerned about, especially when we were
459
01:15:58,416 --> 01:16:00,708
looking at tracing the Tigers paths
460
01:16:00,708 --> 01:16:04,500
moving in and across several
461
01:16:04,500 --> 01:16:05,375
jurisdiction, our
462
01:16:05,375 --> 01:16:07,208
boundaries, several country,
463
01:16:07,250 --> 01:16:13,666
East Ed's and there's big long line per
464
01:16:13,666 --> 01:16:16,916
se net fisheries in that East African
465
01:16:16,916 --> 01:16:19,791
area. Yeah. A lot of Portuguese, a lot of
466
01:16:19,791 --> 01:16:22,625
Spanish, French. Yeah. The usual suspects
467
01:16:22,625 --> 01:16:24,458
generally for that part of
468
01:16:24,458 --> 01:16:25,875
the world. It's fishing. Yeah.
469
01:16:26,250 --> 01:16:30,500
And going back over to your Caribbean
470
01:16:30,500 --> 01:16:33,833
side, have you ever tagged many Tiger
471
01:16:33,833 --> 01:16:35,916
sharks over there off some of the
472
01:16:35,916 --> 01:16:38,708
central? So actually we do have a growing
473
01:16:38,708 --> 01:16:41,750
project on Tigers in
474
01:16:41,750 --> 01:16:43,125
the Caribbean. Yes. Okay.
475
01:16:43,708 --> 01:16:44,791
Because I wonder if they I guess I'm
476
01:16:44,791 --> 01:16:46,375
going to get you is it's too early that
477
01:16:46,375 --> 01:16:48,625
you don't have any big ones and big ones.
478
01:16:48,625 --> 01:16:51,833
Do they mix it all with the population
479
01:16:51,833 --> 01:16:54,250
that you're the Cape
480
01:16:54,250 --> 01:16:55,583
Verde population at all?
481
01:16:56,208 --> 01:16:58,041
So what we're seeing so far is there
482
01:16:58,041 --> 01:17:01,000
either. So what's interesting about the
483
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,041
satellite tagging is that we noticed a
484
01:17:03,041 --> 01:17:05,750
trend that was also reflected in some
485
01:17:05,750 --> 01:17:07,916
other papers, other work that people have
486
01:17:07,916 --> 01:17:10,083
done, which is, you know, often once
487
01:17:10,083 --> 01:17:11,208
they're tagged, they tend to go deep.
488
01:17:11,250 --> 01:17:13,500
They stay deep for a while. And you see
489
01:17:13,500 --> 01:17:15,500
that for on several of the tracks. You
490
01:17:15,500 --> 01:17:17,416
don't see them up near the surface,
491
01:17:17,416 --> 01:17:18,541
surface transmitting. These are spot
492
01:17:18,541 --> 01:17:21,541
tags, right? Not pop up archival tags
493
01:17:21,541 --> 01:17:26,375
that we were using. So what we're seeing
494
01:17:26,375 --> 01:17:29,000
is that the animals that we've been
495
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:33,625
tagging really go deep and stay deep for
496
01:17:33,625 --> 01:17:35,125
quite some time. And then they'll be
497
01:17:35,125 --> 01:17:37,625
crossing big stretches of water, but
498
01:17:37,625 --> 01:17:41,208
they're not going across the water.
499
01:17:41,208 --> 01:17:43,500
So that's clearly a classic the Caribbean
500
01:17:43,500 --> 01:17:46,541
or to the other side of the Atlantic yet,
501
01:17:46,750 --> 01:17:48,500
but you never know. Well, that's the
502
01:17:48,500 --> 01:17:50,208
thing I like, are you going to look at
503
01:17:50,208 --> 01:17:53,541
some kind of isotope study or do you take
504
01:17:53,541 --> 01:17:56,541
like so we have a lot of yes, we have a
505
01:17:56,541 --> 01:17:58,208
lot of things planned actually.
506
01:17:59,208 --> 01:18:00,750
And I also want to look at that because
507
01:18:00,750 --> 01:18:03,000
we want to look at their gestational
508
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:07,250
cycle as well, because it's suspected
509
01:18:07,250 --> 01:18:09,541
that they might be biennial in their
510
01:18:09,541 --> 01:18:13,750
reproduction. But we have so much to
511
01:18:13,750 --> 01:18:16,750
learn. And what we've seen is that we're
512
01:18:16,750 --> 01:18:19,416
finding with bruv work and even long line
513
01:18:19,416 --> 01:18:23,250
work, we'll catch really small animals in
514
01:18:23,250 --> 01:18:24,416
a whole host of different
515
01:18:24,416 --> 01:18:26,000
places along coastlines.
516
01:18:26,250 --> 01:18:31,541
So that whole that whole mention of
517
01:18:31,541 --> 01:18:36,083
extended popping areas for tigers appears
518
01:18:36,083 --> 01:18:39,000
to be true, at least in the parts of the
519
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:40,500
Caribbean where we've been working.
520
01:18:42,916 --> 01:18:45,583
So if there's a is there a specific site
521
01:18:45,583 --> 01:18:47,375
where you're seeing a lot of these
522
01:18:47,375 --> 01:18:48,791
neonates, young of the
523
01:18:48,791 --> 01:18:50,750
years, we haven't found that yet.
524
01:18:51,208 --> 01:18:53,916
Okay, we do know that there are a couple
525
01:18:53,916 --> 01:18:56,833
of sites where we can
526
01:18:56,833 --> 01:18:59,625
find larger females.
527
01:19:00,208 --> 01:19:00,666
Okay.
528
01:19:02,250 --> 01:19:03,416
How long and that's what we're going to
529
01:19:03,416 --> 01:19:04,708
be focusing on. We're going to be
530
01:19:04,708 --> 01:19:07,500
focusing on for stable isotope analysis
531
01:19:07,500 --> 01:19:10,541
for ultrasound. So we
532
01:19:10,541 --> 01:19:12,708
better understand. Yeah, exactly.
533
01:19:13,458 --> 01:19:17,500
Also population analysis, although what's
534
01:19:17,500 --> 01:19:19,416
been shown is that apparently there's
535
01:19:19,416 --> 01:19:21,375
quite a bit of structuring in the
536
01:19:21,375 --> 01:19:24,125
population in the Atlantic. However, you
537
01:19:24,125 --> 01:19:26,208
then get these wonderful outliers like
538
01:19:26,208 --> 01:19:28,291
kalema, the female tiger shark who then
539
01:19:28,291 --> 01:19:30,625
goes and doesn't double back and forth.
540
01:19:30,916 --> 01:19:32,000
And you know, a lot
541
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:33,916
about these large migrations.
542
01:19:34,250 --> 01:19:35,916
Does it take for them? Like, did you get
543
01:19:35,916 --> 01:19:38,041
the days of like how long it took them to
544
01:19:38,041 --> 01:19:41,416
get do that 18,000 18,000? It was 404
545
01:19:41,416 --> 01:19:46,750
days. So 404 days to do almost 18,000
546
01:19:46,750 --> 01:19:49,291
kilometers. And so that's really that's
547
01:19:49,291 --> 01:19:50,708
swimming at a rapid clip of
548
01:19:50,708 --> 01:19:52,500
about 44 kilometers a day.
549
01:19:53,208 --> 01:19:55,375
Yeah, this was the second largest longest
550
01:19:55,375 --> 01:19:57,625
track you said for a tiger shark is the
551
01:19:57,625 --> 01:20:00,125
Pacific they had some a longer one or
552
01:20:00,125 --> 01:20:03,208
yes, but this is the first big transit
553
01:20:03,208 --> 01:20:05,666
transatlantic track. Yeah.
554
01:20:06,125 --> 01:20:08,000
And just in the one in the Pacific, do
555
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:09,666
you remember where that one went? Do you
556
01:20:09,666 --> 01:20:11,625
remember the distance? Like the distance
557
01:20:11,625 --> 01:20:13,208
or where it went off the top?
558
01:20:14,208 --> 01:20:17,416
To be honest off the top. My ability to
559
01:20:17,416 --> 01:20:20,041
hold facts in my head is diminishing by
560
01:20:20,041 --> 01:20:23,458
the decade. Yeah, I, we won't go there
561
01:20:23,458 --> 01:20:24,708
for this conversation, Rachel.
562
01:20:26,083 --> 01:20:28,166
Andrew, that's where you delete this
563
01:20:28,166 --> 01:20:30,625
little piece right here. So we don't
564
01:20:30,625 --> 01:20:33,500
sound like we're entirely. Yeah, I would
565
01:20:33,500 --> 01:20:35,000
have been able to cite the
566
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:36,208
paper die where they went.
567
01:20:36,208 --> 01:20:39,000
I know. I know. Me too. Can't do it
568
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:40,958
anymore. I remember it. I know it's
569
01:20:40,958 --> 01:20:42,250
there, but I thought it was in the
570
01:20:42,250 --> 01:20:44,166
Pacific, but I just I can't remember the
571
01:20:44,166 --> 01:20:46,708
details on it. So maybe somebody out
572
01:20:46,708 --> 01:20:48,291
there will remember and posted on our
573
01:20:48,291 --> 01:20:50,208
comments when the episode comes out.
574
01:20:50,208 --> 01:20:53,583
Well, I mean, it's it's I mean, that's
575
01:20:53,583 --> 01:20:56,583
easy to that's easy to that's easy to
576
01:20:56,583 --> 01:20:58,000
look up. But one of the things that I
577
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:00,916
really like is that so Kim Holland did a
578
01:21:00,916 --> 01:21:02,875
kind of future of tiger shark research.
579
01:21:02,875 --> 01:21:05,083
And there are several things that he
580
01:21:05,083 --> 01:21:07,500
touched on, which was, you know, is there
581
01:21:07,500 --> 01:21:09,208
a popping aggregation side?
582
01:21:09,250 --> 01:21:12,041
Is there are there some mating size? What
583
01:21:12,041 --> 01:21:14,791
is the reproductive cycle? There's so
584
01:21:14,791 --> 01:21:16,375
many more things that we can discover
585
01:21:16,375 --> 01:21:20,083
with tiger sharks and and the differences
586
01:21:20,083 --> 01:21:21,791
that lie between, for example, the
587
01:21:21,791 --> 01:21:23,375
Atlantic Basin and the
588
01:21:23,375 --> 01:21:26,833
Pacific and so so much more.
589
01:21:26,833 --> 01:21:29,208
So it's kind of exciting discovery time.
590
01:21:29,208 --> 01:21:30,875
It's interesting because, you know, they
591
01:21:30,875 --> 01:21:32,416
I think we're learning more of these
592
01:21:32,416 --> 01:21:33,750
different tags, like with the tiger
593
01:21:33,750 --> 01:21:35,166
sharks with your study, with these things
594
01:21:35,166 --> 01:21:36,208
are moving across the Atlantic.
595
01:21:36,250 --> 01:21:39,291
And that and I think this gets into this
596
01:21:39,291 --> 01:21:41,541
whole thing about, you know, when you're
597
01:21:41,541 --> 01:21:43,625
trying to like look at protecting shark
598
01:21:43,625 --> 01:21:45,166
species, especially some of these large
599
01:21:45,166 --> 01:21:48,000
migratory species that these sharks are
600
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:48,916
moving around a lot.
601
01:21:48,916 --> 01:21:51,166
The bigger the larger ones, you know, we
602
01:21:51,166 --> 01:21:53,125
had that there's a study where the the
603
01:21:53,125 --> 01:21:55,541
they had a white shark moved from Cape
604
01:21:55,541 --> 01:21:56,916
Town all the way out to Indonesia.
605
01:21:57,833 --> 01:22:00,166
And and they've had a couple one go, you
606
01:22:00,166 --> 01:22:01,333
know, they had another wasn't that
607
01:22:01,333 --> 01:22:04,125
Nicole. No, that one went
608
01:22:04,125 --> 01:22:05,208
to Niglo Reed Australia.
609
01:22:05,208 --> 01:22:08,083
That's right. That's right. Oh, my gosh.
610
01:22:08,083 --> 01:22:08,958
Yeah. No, this one went
611
01:22:08,958 --> 01:22:10,750
to that's that's a story.
612
01:22:10,750 --> 01:22:11,708
I think we're gonna do a separate episode
613
01:22:11,708 --> 01:22:13,083
on because it was it was really I
614
01:22:13,083 --> 01:22:14,458
actually got involved with that one.
615
01:22:14,458 --> 01:22:16,625
Finding the thing that tag showed up in
616
01:22:16,625 --> 01:22:19,208
Indonesia and a fisherman had it in the
617
01:22:19,208 --> 01:22:20,750
village for a couple of
618
01:22:20,750 --> 01:22:21,958
years. Oh, right. Yeah.
619
01:22:22,208 --> 01:22:24,208
They just published a paper on it.
620
01:22:24,208 --> 01:22:25,083
Yeah. And I think, you know, it's a really interesting story. Yeah.
621
01:22:25,083 --> 01:22:25,416
But I think that's the point that I think that's the point that you have that the
622
01:22:25,416 --> 01:22:26,958
one that Alison Koch and a whole group of
623
01:22:26,958 --> 01:22:27,708
them there and stuff.
624
01:22:27,708 --> 01:22:30,333
That was a fascinating story. But but the
625
01:22:30,333 --> 01:22:31,875
point that that went all and then you
626
01:22:31,875 --> 01:22:33,125
have the one Nicole, you mentioned that
627
01:22:33,125 --> 01:22:35,541
went from Cape Town to Nigolo Reef up in
628
01:22:35,541 --> 01:22:38,416
Northwest Northwest, Northwest Australia.
629
01:22:45,250 --> 01:22:47,583
Yeah. And you're seeing these big
630
01:22:47,583 --> 01:22:49,833
migrations being performed a lot of the
631
01:22:49,833 --> 01:22:52,291
time by these large adult female sharks.
632
01:22:52,875 --> 01:22:56,000
Yeah. And yeah, great way to great way to
633
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,333
spread the genes and. Yeah.
634
01:22:58,625 --> 01:23:00,708
And of course, there's basket sharks. Now
635
01:23:00,708 --> 01:23:03,250
we see we know they move across the
636
01:23:03,250 --> 01:23:05,291
Atlantic as well as north and south as
637
01:23:05,291 --> 01:23:07,666
now north to south and all the way down
638
01:23:07,666 --> 01:23:09,208
to places like Dominican Republic, etc.
639
01:23:09,250 --> 01:23:12,833
So it's really remarkable the migrations
640
01:23:12,833 --> 01:23:14,500
that they're able to do or even close to
641
01:23:14,500 --> 01:23:16,333
the Western Sahara by recall. Yeah.
642
01:23:16,625 --> 01:23:18,708
When it goes to speak to their fitness at
643
01:23:18,708 --> 01:23:20,416
the time to be able to do that type of
644
01:23:20,416 --> 01:23:22,625
track, right, to move at that speed for
645
01:23:22,625 --> 01:23:24,291
that distance, like they must be feeding
646
01:23:24,291 --> 01:23:27,000
well, you know, in like this one must
647
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:28,500
have fed well and Cape Verde to be able
648
01:23:28,500 --> 01:23:30,750
to get across the Atlantic for that speed
649
01:23:30,750 --> 01:23:32,208
on like, was it 44 kilometers per day?
650
01:23:33,208 --> 01:23:36,833
Yeah, exactly. And and you're absolutely
651
01:23:36,833 --> 01:23:39,000
right. And I think this is where tigers
652
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:42,583
really are are the champions. I think
653
01:23:42,583 --> 01:23:44,416
there was a quote saying that they're the
654
01:23:44,416 --> 01:23:46,458
climate change champions
655
01:23:46,458 --> 01:23:48,541
because they're so adaptable.
656
01:23:49,041 --> 01:23:51,208
They, you know, have a very broad thermal
657
01:23:51,208 --> 01:23:54,291
range. And not only that, they can eat a
658
01:23:54,291 --> 01:23:57,166
whole host of different types of food. So
659
01:23:57,166 --> 01:23:59,125
they'll be very opportunistic in the food
660
01:23:59,125 --> 01:24:01,208
types. I had a really great moment.
661
01:24:01,250 --> 01:24:03,083
Actually, I'm writing up the note at the
662
01:24:03,083 --> 01:24:06,708
moment, where my two of my favorite
663
01:24:06,708 --> 01:24:09,291
species came together with tiger sharks
664
01:24:09,291 --> 01:24:11,666
eating a whale shark off of the coast of
665
01:24:11,666 --> 01:24:14,750
Belize. I was like, wow, a triple wind.
666
01:24:15,833 --> 01:24:24,291
So, so, yeah, so considering that they,
667
01:24:24,291 --> 01:24:26,583
you know, they have this wide thermal
668
01:24:26,583 --> 01:24:28,208
range that they do go to depth.
669
01:24:28,250 --> 01:24:31,625
And they're able to utilize that water
670
01:24:31,625 --> 01:24:34,208
column is for, you know, feeding for
671
01:24:34,208 --> 01:24:37,166
orientation for all of these and
672
01:24:37,166 --> 01:24:40,000
behavioral thermal regulation, then yeah,
673
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:41,541
they're, they're pretty awesome
674
01:24:41,541 --> 01:24:42,208
creatures, I have to say.
675
01:24:42,250 --> 01:24:44,416
And you know, the other thing that also
676
01:24:44,416 --> 01:24:50,000
makes them more likely to to survive
677
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:51,916
longer term, especially with fisheries
678
01:24:51,916 --> 01:24:54,875
pressures is the fact that they're so
679
01:24:54,875 --> 01:24:57,000
hardy on the long line. I was looking at
680
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:00,000
one of the NOAA studies looking at the
681
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:03,083
mortality on long lines and tigers, you
682
01:25:03,083 --> 01:25:04,541
know, four hours later
683
01:25:04,541 --> 01:25:05,208
and they're still alive.
684
01:25:05,250 --> 01:25:08,375
They're like, they're, you know, kind of,
685
01:25:08,375 --> 01:25:09,500
I was like, look at them as like a
686
01:25:09,500 --> 01:25:12,166
garbage can with fins. It's like, they're
687
01:25:12,166 --> 01:25:15,500
literally like, you know, they eat pretty
688
01:25:15,500 --> 01:25:17,208
much anything. They kind of now they seem
689
01:25:17,208 --> 01:25:19,083
to go everywhere. They want. Yeah.
690
01:25:19,333 --> 01:25:21,333
Just like that. I don't know what the,
691
01:25:21,333 --> 01:25:23,541
what the analogy would be for it, but you
692
01:25:23,541 --> 01:25:25,458
know, other even things are white sharks,
693
01:25:25,458 --> 01:25:27,541
like white sharks are, they kind of croak
694
01:25:27,541 --> 01:25:29,583
out pretty easily. If you get them on a
695
01:25:29,583 --> 01:25:31,000
long line, they don't leave a lot of
696
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:32,208
lamb, a lot of lamb, lance to lance.
697
01:25:32,208 --> 01:25:35,583
Don't do well with cortisol stress, et
698
01:25:35,583 --> 01:25:37,708
cetera. But tiger sharks are like, yeah,
699
01:25:38,208 --> 01:25:40,125
pass me the margarita or the kyper media
700
01:25:40,125 --> 01:25:42,916
in this case. Yeah. Exactly. So they're
701
01:25:42,916 --> 01:25:44,875
tough hardy sharks. They're chill.
702
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:46,500
They're very chill. And you know, one
703
01:25:46,500 --> 01:25:47,750
thing that I'm really excited and
704
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:48,875
something that we're going to integrate
705
01:25:48,875 --> 01:25:51,333
into our work moving forward is they've,
706
01:25:51,333 --> 01:25:54,083
they found a new, I wish I, again, it's
707
01:25:54,083 --> 01:25:55,458
like, I wish I could remember everybody
708
01:25:55,458 --> 01:25:57,375
who writes these amazing and does this
709
01:25:57,375 --> 01:25:58,208
amazing work around the world.
710
01:25:58,208 --> 01:26:03,458
But there is a new way to identify photo
711
01:26:03,458 --> 01:26:06,083
ID tiger sharks, and it's not on the
712
01:26:06,083 --> 01:26:09,500
stripes and dots, which do fade as they
713
01:26:09,500 --> 01:26:11,583
get larger. And so it's probably more
714
01:26:11,583 --> 01:26:13,125
difficult to be able to identify
715
01:26:13,125 --> 01:26:14,958
individuals. And that's kind of what we
716
01:26:14,958 --> 01:26:16,875
were focusing on. And I was thinking,
717
01:26:16,875 --> 01:26:18,041
what are we going to do? Because I do
718
01:26:18,041 --> 01:26:20,333
know that they fade. Well, what's really
719
01:26:20,333 --> 01:26:23,500
cool is that line between the gray and
720
01:26:23,500 --> 01:26:26,083
the white on the belly is very kind of
721
01:26:26,083 --> 01:26:26,208
serrated and edgy. That apparently is
not what we're going to do.
722
01:26:29,958 --> 01:26:33,875
And so that is the basis for doing ID and
723
01:26:33,875 --> 01:26:39,250
technique. Yes. Yeah. And in fact, Jason
724
01:26:39,250 --> 01:26:41,250
Holmberg, who was the architect behind
725
01:26:41,250 --> 01:26:44,125
all the photo IDs for whale sharks and
726
01:26:44,125 --> 01:26:46,125
has now joined the conservation X labs
727
01:26:46,125 --> 01:26:49,083
with his wild me outfit just pinged me
728
01:26:49,083 --> 01:26:51,208
and said, Hey, we've got a new photo ID thing for tiger sharks we want to try out.
729
01:26:51,208 --> 01:26:56,750
Want to be part of it? And I'm like, yes,
730
01:26:57,208 --> 01:27:00,125
yes, absolutely. So yeah. So you see,
731
01:27:00,125 --> 01:27:04,416
again, whale sharks lead. Yeah. All roads
732
01:27:04,416 --> 01:27:06,541
lead to tiger tiger sharks from disparate
733
01:27:06,541 --> 01:27:09,333
sources, especially through whale sharks
734
01:27:09,333 --> 01:27:11,416
is perfect. Yeah. Well, you know, it's
735
01:27:11,416 --> 01:27:12,208
those stripes and spots again. That's it. That's it. Right? Yeah.
736
01:27:13,208 --> 01:27:18,000
I'm not going to say that I'm still like
737
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:20,041
in search of my first whale shark in the
738
01:27:20,041 --> 01:27:22,375
field. So I'm just Dave has had some. Oh,
739
01:27:22,375 --> 01:27:24,583
Dave, give it up. Come and join me in
740
01:27:24,583 --> 01:27:27,500
Mexico. Come on. Yeah. I've been to
741
01:27:27,500 --> 01:27:29,000
Mexico and I've never seen him there, but
742
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:30,208
I'll, I'll have to hit you up here some time and go see him.
743
01:27:30,208 --> 01:27:33,958
Every time I show up there, they're not
744
01:27:33,958 --> 01:27:37,208
there. It's just, um, just my, my, I
745
01:27:37,208 --> 01:27:38,041
don't know. They have, they have an
746
01:27:38,041 --> 01:27:39,875
allergy to Dave. As soon as he shows up,
747
01:27:39,875 --> 01:27:41,833
every day, every day, oh yeah, come here.
748
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,041
No problem. You'll see plenty of them. I
749
01:27:44,041 --> 01:27:45,666
show up there. Now I don't know what's
750
01:27:45,666 --> 01:27:46,916
going on this year. They're, they seem to
751
01:27:46,916 --> 01:27:48,208
be late. And then as soon as I leave,
752
01:27:48,250 --> 01:27:50,041
like two days later, they're all, you
753
01:27:50,041 --> 01:27:51,250
know what they're doing. They're like,
754
01:27:51,250 --> 01:27:53,375
here, let us show you how deep we can
755
01:27:53,375 --> 01:27:55,166
dive. Cause we know you like deep diving
756
01:27:55,166 --> 01:27:57,500
sharks. Let us show you how deep we can
757
01:27:57,500 --> 01:27:59,625
dive. So that's why you have to look for
758
01:27:59,625 --> 01:28:00,208
you. Like, where did he go? He's like, oh, I'm going to get him. I'm going to get him. I'm going
to get him. I'm going to get him. I'm going to get him. I'm going to get him. I'm going to get
759
01:28:00,208 --> 01:28:08,875
him. You got to go. That's innocent. And
760
01:28:08,875 --> 01:28:09,000
that puts them in
761
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:26,000
aKkoma. That does result in
762
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:26,500
no effect. That's aauntlet that we all have. And that has become the most incredible and
763
01:28:26,500 --> 01:28:26,750
accompanabe, the tensor from this, the lake sense. We did a special
incredibly amazing Time volt DEVEX exploded pre pregnancies
764
01:28:26,750 --> 01:28:27,583
about their restoration and what did they
765
01:28:27,625 --> 01:28:28,375
There was a moment
766
01:28:28,375 --> 01:28:29,666
where there's a bunch of us
767
01:28:29,666 --> 01:28:30,333
who are kind of like
768
01:28:30,333 --> 01:28:31,500
out competing each other
769
01:28:31,500 --> 01:28:33,958
to how deep can our whale shark dive
770
01:28:34,041 --> 01:28:34,791
according to the
771
01:28:34,791 --> 01:28:36,666
technology we have available.
772
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:39,333
And you know, to be pretty much at 2000,
773
01:28:39,333 --> 01:28:42,041
2000 plus meters, 6,660 feet.
774
01:28:42,458 --> 01:28:43,125
That's crazy.
775
01:28:43,791 --> 01:28:44,291
That's insane.
776
01:28:44,791 --> 01:28:45,708
Crazy. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
777
01:28:46,416 --> 01:28:47,625
So big respect to the
778
01:28:47,625 --> 01:28:49,458
glumping Labrador sharks.
779
01:28:50,083 --> 01:28:50,291
Absolutely.
780
01:28:50,458 --> 01:28:50,875
I mean, it'd be kind
781
01:28:50,875 --> 01:28:51,666
of interesting to see
782
01:28:51,666 --> 01:28:52,875
if you get more data
783
01:28:52,875 --> 01:28:54,250
between the whale sharks,
784
01:28:54,291 --> 01:28:55,291
the tiger sharks, white
785
01:28:55,291 --> 01:28:57,458
sharks, basking sharks,
786
01:28:57,916 --> 01:28:58,500
like see if these things
787
01:28:58,500 --> 01:28:59,458
have different corridors
788
01:28:59,458 --> 01:29:01,208
that they travel when they go travel
789
01:29:01,208 --> 01:29:02,083
across the Atlantic,
790
01:29:02,583 --> 01:29:03,416
whether it's east or
791
01:29:03,416 --> 01:29:04,291
west or north, south.
792
01:29:04,291 --> 01:29:05,458
It'd be interesting if they're using,
793
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:06,750
because I know some of the stuff
794
01:29:06,750 --> 01:29:07,708
they've shown in the Pacific
795
01:29:07,958 --> 01:29:08,500
that where the white
796
01:29:08,500 --> 01:29:09,708
sharks go out to Hawaii,
797
01:29:10,375 --> 01:29:12,666
the salmon sharks will migrate south,
798
01:29:12,666 --> 01:29:14,000
but they don't go quite as far south
799
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:15,916
as where the white sharks congregate.
800
01:29:16,916 --> 01:29:17,625
Maybe it's a pecking,
801
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:18,875
could it be a pecking
802
01:29:18,875 --> 01:29:20,291
order or a temperature issue?
803
01:29:21,416 --> 01:29:22,333
Hard to say, I don't know.
804
01:29:22,666 --> 01:29:23,666
Well, cause they can go a depth,
805
01:29:23,666 --> 01:29:24,791
when they're in the open ocean like that,
806
01:29:24,791 --> 01:29:25,458
they can move to a
807
01:29:25,458 --> 01:29:26,958
depth they can accommodate.
808
01:29:26,958 --> 01:29:27,750
They're getting colder, yeah.
809
01:29:27,833 --> 01:29:28,833
Yeah, and they, so it's
810
01:29:28,833 --> 01:29:29,458
just kind of interesting.
811
01:29:29,666 --> 01:29:30,041
Of course, nobody
812
01:29:30,041 --> 01:29:30,833
knows why the white sharks
813
01:29:30,833 --> 01:29:31,791
are going to Hawaii,
814
01:29:31,791 --> 01:29:32,625
other than it's like from,
815
01:29:32,625 --> 01:29:33,250
you know, whatever.
816
01:29:34,583 --> 01:29:35,666
What do they have in Hawaii?
817
01:29:35,666 --> 01:29:36,416
It's not margaritas, what
818
01:29:36,416 --> 01:29:37,250
do they drink out there?
819
01:29:37,708 --> 01:29:38,500
Mai Tai, Mai Tai's?
820
01:29:38,541 --> 01:29:39,375
Mai Tai's, there you go,
821
01:29:39,375 --> 01:29:40,583
Mai Tai's, there you go, yeah.
822
01:29:41,125 --> 01:29:42,000
Well, we're gonna judge
823
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:43,708
these nodes of connectivity
824
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:45,541
based on the alcoholic drink.
825
01:29:45,916 --> 01:29:46,666
On the alcoholic drink.
826
01:29:47,625 --> 01:29:47,750
(laughing)
827
01:29:48,083 --> 01:29:49,375
That's the title of the paper.
828
01:29:50,166 --> 01:29:51,666
Yeah, that's the margaritas in Mai Tai's.
829
01:29:51,708 --> 01:29:53,125
This'll be a test on what
830
01:29:53,125 --> 01:29:55,291
drink equates to what shark?
831
01:29:55,750 --> 01:29:56,500
Yeah, exactly.
832
01:29:57,666 --> 01:29:58,666
There we go.
833
01:29:59,125 --> 01:30:01,125
From tequila to rum and Coke
834
01:30:01,125 --> 01:30:04,208
to, what do we have in Cuba?
835
01:30:04,625 --> 01:30:05,875
What's in Cuba again?
836
01:30:06,375 --> 01:30:07,625
Well, it's gotta be rum, like--
837
01:30:07,958 --> 01:30:08,750
With mints.
838
01:30:09,750 --> 01:30:10,916
I don't know, I was gonna say,
839
01:30:12,125 --> 01:30:13,333
what's a good margarita shark?
840
01:30:14,791 --> 01:30:15,000
Oh.
841
01:30:17,791 --> 01:30:18,041
Huh.
842
01:30:19,708 --> 01:30:20,000
Bull shark.
843
01:30:20,500 --> 01:30:20,875
A bull?
844
01:30:21,375 --> 01:30:21,583
Yeah.
845
01:30:21,958 --> 01:30:24,333
Yeah. Okay, I'll take that one.
846
01:30:24,333 --> 01:30:25,083
Is there a long, yeah,
847
01:30:25,083 --> 01:30:25,875
there along that coastline.
848
01:30:26,166 --> 01:30:28,166
Yeah, I'd rather be having a margarita
849
01:30:28,166 --> 01:30:28,916
than diving with bull
850
01:30:28,916 --> 01:30:29,791
sharks, so what the heck?
851
01:30:30,541 --> 01:30:31,541
(laughing)
852
01:30:31,666 --> 01:30:32,500
Oh, come on, Dave.
853
01:30:32,500 --> 01:30:33,541
Maybe you need a margarita before you dive
854
01:30:33,541 --> 01:30:35,000
with bull sharks. Come on.
855
01:30:35,041 --> 01:30:36,541
No, it's not my, I just
856
01:30:36,541 --> 01:30:38,000
have my, I don't even--
857
01:30:38,250 --> 01:30:38,750
So we're working, yeah,
858
01:30:38,750 --> 01:30:39,833
we're working with bull sharks
859
01:30:39,833 --> 01:30:41,750
as well throughout the Mesoamerican Reef
860
01:30:41,916 --> 01:30:43,375
and looking at this
861
01:30:43,375 --> 01:30:45,125
shark superhighway corridor,
862
01:30:45,416 --> 01:30:47,291
but especially between Belize and
863
01:30:47,291 --> 01:30:48,625
Mexico's Quintana Roo.
864
01:30:49,125 --> 01:30:52,000
Yes. And trying to quantify the use
865
01:30:52,208 --> 01:30:54,416
and the demography of
866
01:30:54,416 --> 01:30:55,625
the species using it,
867
01:30:55,625 --> 01:30:57,541
also clear popping grounds and
868
01:30:57,541 --> 01:30:59,416
reproductive grounds
869
01:30:59,416 --> 01:31:01,583
and so much more, but yeah,
870
01:31:02,125 --> 01:31:03,958
that will be for another day
871
01:31:03,958 --> 01:31:05,541
because we're still in the-- We'll do
872
01:31:05,541 --> 01:31:05,791
that another episode.
873
01:31:05,791 --> 01:31:06,291
We'll do that another day.
874
01:31:07,083 --> 01:31:07,666
You're gonna have a
875
01:31:07,666 --> 01:31:09,208
regular episode on this.
876
01:31:09,458 --> 01:31:09,916
It's gonna be the
877
01:31:09,916 --> 01:31:11,583
"Mar Alliance" show here.
878
01:31:11,583 --> 01:31:12,916
Have your own boat, love it.
879
01:31:12,916 --> 01:31:13,125
Love it.
880
01:31:13,291 --> 01:31:14,375
They're all in a segment here.
881
01:31:14,875 --> 01:31:15,083
Yeah.
882
01:31:16,083 --> 01:31:17,291
Well, I was just gonna say,
883
01:31:17,333 --> 01:31:19,708
with the tigers and Cape Verde,
884
01:31:19,708 --> 01:31:21,416
I think one of the things that we're
885
01:31:21,416 --> 01:31:22,500
really excited about
886
01:31:22,500 --> 01:31:24,000
is that we've really
887
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:25,083
just scratched the surface
888
01:31:25,291 --> 01:31:27,500
with this species in Cape Verde.
889
01:31:28,166 --> 01:31:29,625
And we're really excited
890
01:31:29,625 --> 01:31:31,875
to see this work expand,
891
01:31:31,875 --> 01:31:34,166
but onto the West African coast as well.
892
01:31:34,708 --> 01:31:35,750
I'm sure that there's
893
01:31:35,750 --> 01:31:36,500
gonna be a lot more.
894
01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:37,583
There are several NGOs
895
01:31:37,583 --> 01:31:39,041
that have cropped up recently
896
01:31:39,291 --> 01:31:41,791
working on sharks and shark fisheries.
897
01:31:42,458 --> 01:31:44,250
So you've seen this expansion of work,
898
01:31:44,250 --> 01:31:45,291
and also in Cape Verde.
899
01:31:45,333 --> 01:31:46,750
When we started, we were the
900
01:31:46,750 --> 01:31:48,208
only ones working on sharks.
901
01:31:50,083 --> 01:31:52,625
You know, all those years ago in a
902
01:31:52,625 --> 01:31:54,500
focused, dedicated way.
903
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:59,000
And I think that more people better, and
904
01:31:59,000 --> 01:32:00,416
if we can actually
905
01:32:00,416 --> 01:32:01,666
reverse some of the declines,
906
01:32:01,916 --> 01:32:02,916
that would be absolutely fantastic.
907
01:32:03,541 --> 01:32:05,875
One thing that I didn't mention is, you
908
01:32:05,875 --> 01:32:06,500
know, you're asking,
909
01:32:06,500 --> 01:32:08,250
why are they in Cape Verde potentially?
910
01:32:08,833 --> 01:32:11,916
Well, one thing that they have,
911
01:32:11,916 --> 01:32:13,250
especially in Boa Vista and Zal,
912
01:32:13,333 --> 01:32:17,333
they are huge rickories on the biggest in
913
01:32:17,333 --> 01:32:20,166
the world for loggerhead turtles.
914
01:32:21,083 --> 01:32:23,083
And boy, tiger sharks love them.
915
01:32:23,083 --> 01:32:24,791
They love those loggerhead turtles.
916
01:32:25,500 --> 01:32:27,541
Exactly. So they're there, especially
917
01:32:27,541 --> 01:32:31,166
during the mating season for the turtles.
918
01:32:31,375 --> 01:32:33,916
And that happens to be when you're seeing
919
01:32:33,916 --> 01:32:35,750
the tigers hanging around as well.
920
01:32:36,208 --> 01:32:36,750
Yeah. Interesting.
921
01:32:37,375 --> 01:32:39,291
What policies would you
922
01:32:39,291 --> 01:32:41,291
like to see enacted, you know,
923
01:32:41,333 --> 01:32:43,916
as this research comes out, especially in
924
01:32:43,916 --> 01:32:44,833
West Africa,
925
01:32:45,083 --> 01:32:46,458
especially in like Cape Verde?
926
01:32:47,625 --> 01:32:48,458
So I think what would
927
01:32:48,458 --> 01:32:51,666
be great, it's hard.
928
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:54,583
It's hard because the policies that we
929
01:32:54,583 --> 01:32:57,083
might have in some parts of the world
930
01:32:57,083 --> 01:32:58,583
where people are not
931
01:32:58,583 --> 01:33:01,500
dependent on shark meat to survive,
932
01:33:02,291 --> 01:33:03,291
is one thing.
933
01:33:03,750 --> 01:33:04,083
Right.
934
01:33:04,291 --> 01:33:07,708
So in West Africa, you have in coastal
935
01:33:07,708 --> 01:33:10,375
communities, the need for protein and
936
01:33:10,375 --> 01:33:14,208
poverty levels that would you give up a
937
01:33:14,208 --> 01:33:15,875
tiger shark if you know you're going to
938
01:33:15,875 --> 01:33:18,041
be feeding 30, 40 people.
939
01:33:18,666 --> 01:33:21,750
So the policies that I would like to see
940
01:33:21,750 --> 01:33:25,875
is if because they have such great
941
01:33:25,875 --> 01:33:27,958
resistance and resilience, especially
942
01:33:27,958 --> 01:33:30,000
when they're caught, is potentially
943
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:31,833
releasing large
944
01:33:31,833 --> 01:33:34,541
females and releasing pups.
945
01:33:34,958 --> 01:33:39,916
They grow pretty quickly. So is it to
946
01:33:39,916 --> 01:33:41,875
that level, do you think like is it to
947
01:33:41,875 --> 01:33:44,208
that level where, you know, the local
948
01:33:44,208 --> 01:33:46,500
people are catching those sharks for
949
01:33:46,500 --> 01:33:47,291
their own consumption?
950
01:33:47,333 --> 01:33:49,291
Is it to the level where it's dangerous,
951
01:33:49,541 --> 01:33:50,375
like they're catching both?
952
01:33:51,291 --> 01:33:52,958
Yeah, that's both. Yeah, there's
953
01:33:52,958 --> 01:33:54,750
captures, there's captures for local
954
01:33:54,750 --> 01:33:57,000
consumption subsistence. And then
955
01:33:57,000 --> 01:34:00,041
there's, and then there's a larger
956
01:34:00,041 --> 01:34:02,958
industrial fishing vessels that are
957
01:34:02,958 --> 01:34:04,875
catching a difference in the policy.
958
01:34:05,208 --> 01:34:06,958
So if it's substance, then it's fine. If
959
01:34:06,958 --> 01:34:09,500
it's, or better, but then if it's more
960
01:34:09,500 --> 01:34:11,000
commercial, then maybe
961
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:11,875
have a little bit more.
962
01:34:12,500 --> 01:34:14,625
Well, you're seeing a lot of seeing some
963
01:34:14,625 --> 01:34:16,291
of the loopholes potentially being able
964
01:34:16,291 --> 01:34:18,416
to be closed up with the BBNJ, which is
965
01:34:18,416 --> 01:34:20,416
biodiversity on national jurisdictions.
966
01:34:21,041 --> 01:34:22,833
So this, you know, this paper on tigers
967
01:34:22,833 --> 01:34:25,583
came out at just the right time, because
968
01:34:25,583 --> 01:34:30,291
BBNJ in in their, in seeking even more
969
01:34:30,291 --> 01:34:33,208
signatories to make it even more robust
970
01:34:33,208 --> 01:34:37,041
as a treaty are also looking for data and
971
01:34:37,041 --> 01:34:40,666
case studies that demonstrate the use of
972
01:34:40,666 --> 01:34:46,166
these kind of these areas that belong to
973
01:34:46,166 --> 01:34:48,583
everybody and and nobody all at the same
974
01:34:48,583 --> 01:34:51,958
time in order to be able to try and
975
01:34:51,958 --> 01:34:54,000
formulate either moving
976
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:55,291
protected areas, where
977
01:34:55,333 --> 01:34:56,750
there are going to be rules and
978
01:34:56,750 --> 01:34:59,083
regulations against fishing these kinds
979
01:34:59,083 --> 01:35:02,375
of these highly migratory species or
980
01:35:02,375 --> 01:35:06,000
more. So we're really grateful to tiger
981
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:09,333
shark kalema for for highlighting the use
982
01:35:09,333 --> 01:35:12,708
of entire oceanic basins and and
983
01:35:12,708 --> 01:35:16,000
supporting the the BBNJ treaty.
984
01:35:16,291 --> 01:35:19,000
Absolutely. Yeah. So I think there's a
985
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,458
lot of things on the on the horizon that
986
01:35:21,458 --> 01:35:23,375
will be coming out. I think there's a
987
01:35:23,375 --> 01:35:26,416
long way to go, unfortunately, because
988
01:35:26,416 --> 01:35:29,041
who's going to patrol that who's going to
989
01:35:29,041 --> 01:35:31,750
so many questions to ask so many
990
01:35:31,750 --> 01:35:34,666
questions and more. So, yeah, but maybe
991
01:35:34,666 --> 01:35:36,291
she should become a bit of an icon for
992
01:35:36,291 --> 01:35:38,291
that for the for the BBNJ, right?
993
01:35:38,291 --> 01:35:40,916
Absolutely. She could be one of one of
994
01:35:40,916 --> 01:35:44,500
their flagship species and animals. Yep.
995
01:35:44,500 --> 01:35:45,625
There you go. That'd be awesome. That'd
996
01:35:45,625 --> 01:35:47,708
be great. Well, well, Rachel, thanks so
997
01:35:47,708 --> 01:35:49,416
much for coming on and sharing the story
998
01:35:49,416 --> 01:35:51,416
about the tiger sharks. We're going to be
999
01:35:51,416 --> 01:35:53,166
back with another episode here talking
1000
01:35:53,166 --> 01:35:56,333
about your next big discovery here and
1001
01:35:56,333 --> 01:35:58,875
we'll we'll share that when you come back
1002
01:35:58,875 --> 01:36:00,958
on here in the next episode. So, okay.
1003
01:36:01,166 --> 01:36:02,833
Absolutely. Thank you so much. We
1004
01:36:02,833 --> 01:36:04,083
appreciate it. Thank you so much. And
1005
01:36:04,083 --> 01:36:05,250
thank you for having me. That was
1006
01:36:05,250 --> 01:36:06,541
brilliant. Of course, you bet.
1007
01:36:09,125 --> 01:36:10,375
Thank you, Rachel, for joining us on
1008
01:36:10,375 --> 01:36:11,875
today's episode of the Beyond Jaws
1009
01:36:11,875 --> 01:36:14,541
podcast. Dave, what an exciting
1010
01:36:14,541 --> 01:36:17,416
discovery. Like this doesn't happen every
1011
01:36:17,416 --> 01:36:19,416
day where you get this type of discovery
1012
01:36:19,416 --> 01:36:23,083
of the longest transatlantic 18,000
1013
01:36:23,083 --> 01:36:25,750
kilometers to Brazil and back from Cape
1014
01:36:25,750 --> 01:36:30,166
Verde. Phenomenal type of story and and
1015
01:36:30,166 --> 01:36:32,291
from from an organization like Mara
1016
01:36:32,291 --> 01:36:34,000
Alliance to be able to publish this with
1017
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:36,333
their collaborators. This is huge. This
1018
01:36:36,333 --> 01:36:37,291
is such a big thing for them.
1019
01:36:37,291 --> 01:36:39,583
Oh, yeah. This is a huge. I think it's a
1020
01:36:39,583 --> 01:36:41,416
huge story and obviously got a lot. It
1021
01:36:41,416 --> 01:36:42,708
did get a lot of media attention when it
1022
01:36:42,708 --> 01:36:45,958
first came out here a few weeks ago. And
1023
01:36:45,958 --> 01:36:48,166
yeah, I mean, you're like this kind of
1024
01:36:48,166 --> 01:36:50,000
said in the intro, you suddenly realize
1025
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:52,166
these these large predators have huge
1026
01:36:52,166 --> 01:36:54,250
territories that they cover and you know
1027
01:36:54,250 --> 01:36:55,500
where they're going to be at certain
1028
01:36:55,500 --> 01:36:58,125
times of the year and and and why they're
1029
01:36:58,125 --> 01:36:59,708
going there, why they're particular this
1030
01:36:59,708 --> 01:37:01,666
migratory route. That's fast. That's
1031
01:37:01,666 --> 01:37:02,875
another whole series of
1032
01:37:02,875 --> 01:37:04,291
questions you can ask.
1033
01:37:04,500 --> 01:37:06,125
Why this? Why? Why? Why do they know to
1034
01:37:06,125 --> 01:37:08,125
go from here to there on that route? But
1035
01:37:08,125 --> 01:37:09,916
but it's fascinating that they cover such
1036
01:37:09,916 --> 01:37:12,250
an immense area and they turn up these
1037
01:37:12,250 --> 01:37:14,583
different different locations. Um then
1038
01:37:14,583 --> 01:37:15,500
you can start seeing what are they
1039
01:37:15,500 --> 01:37:17,291
feeding on? You know, is there some of
1040
01:37:17,291 --> 01:37:19,500
these areas that they for a good are they
1041
01:37:19,500 --> 01:37:23,916
for uh uh mating purposes for birthing or
1042
01:37:23,916 --> 01:37:26,000
the nursery areas? Uh you can start to
1043
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:28,666
you get kind of peel the the curtain back
1044
01:37:28,666 --> 01:37:30,250
a little bit on things like tiger sharks
1045
01:37:30,250 --> 01:37:32,083
because otherwise you just know they
1046
01:37:32,083 --> 01:37:33,291
certain times of the year they'll show up in this one location.
1047
01:37:33,291 --> 01:37:36,250
But now it's kind of another little piece
1048
01:37:36,250 --> 01:37:38,500
of the puzzle um as to where these things
1049
01:37:38,500 --> 01:37:41,125
go. Yeah. And um you know, as we know too
1050
01:37:41,125 --> 01:37:43,416
with a lot of these species, they tend to
1051
01:37:43,416 --> 01:37:46,000
segareat by size and by sex. So the
1052
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:47,791
immature ones may go one place. These are
1053
01:37:47,791 --> 01:37:49,958
like an adult female like this may go a
1054
01:37:49,958 --> 01:37:52,500
different location. Um you know, males
1055
01:37:52,500 --> 01:37:53,916
may turn out somewhere but you know, at
1056
01:37:53,916 --> 01:37:55,500
some point they gotta get together and
1057
01:37:55,500 --> 01:37:58,166
make little babies little baby tiger
1058
01:37:58,166 --> 01:38:00,958
sharks show up. Yeah, no for sure. Well,
1059
01:38:00,958 --> 01:38:02,625
I mean, it just goes it goes to show that
1060
01:38:02,625 --> 01:38:03,291
we we still have a lot of species that are
1061
01:38:03,291 --> 01:38:04,250
there. We still have so much to discover.
1062
01:38:04,250 --> 01:38:06,250
I mean, even from the beginning of this
1063
01:38:06,250 --> 01:38:08,000
study, which wasn't a tiger shark
1064
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:10,583
migration study, it was let's find out as
1065
01:38:10,583 --> 01:38:12,458
much as we can about the sharks in Cape
1066
01:38:12,458 --> 01:38:14,916
Verde in that archipelago and then they
1067
01:38:14,916 --> 01:38:17,166
found so much diversity in there. It's
1068
01:38:17,166 --> 01:38:18,875
it's just goes to show we just we there's
1069
01:38:18,875 --> 01:38:21,000
so much more we need to find out about
1070
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,791
sharks and their diversity and then we we
1071
01:38:23,791 --> 01:38:24,833
can discover more about their
1072
01:38:24,833 --> 01:38:26,333
conservation. We can you know, like if
1073
01:38:26,333 --> 01:38:27,916
you think about a tiger shark that
1074
01:38:27,916 --> 01:38:29,916
travels there to Brazil and back from
1075
01:38:29,916 --> 01:38:33,291
Cape Verde, you look at how like what they're doing. And then you kind of
1076
01:38:33,291 --> 01:38:34,875
look at where do they stop on the way?
1077
01:38:35,500 --> 01:38:37,416
Are they stopping on the way? You know,
1078
01:38:37,416 --> 01:38:39,416
what are they doing on the way there? Can
1079
01:38:39,416 --> 01:38:41,708
we put you know, now with the high seas
1080
01:38:41,708 --> 01:38:43,958
tree, can we put marine protected areas
1081
01:38:43,958 --> 01:38:45,791
in certain spots where they might
1082
01:38:45,791 --> 01:38:47,791
aggregate with other animals? You know,
1083
01:38:47,791 --> 01:38:50,041
we're looking at distinctive areas where
1084
01:38:50,041 --> 01:38:53,500
it might attract sharks on their way. It
1085
01:38:53,500 --> 01:38:54,916
could be an upwelling that we didn't know
1086
01:38:54,916 --> 01:38:56,125
about. It could be anything.
1087
01:38:56,708 --> 01:38:58,208
Um maybe even a they're in a
1088
01:39:03,416 --> 01:39:03,791
far south of the coast and have the
1089
01:39:03,791 --> 01:39:06,000
energy to do that migration, right?
1090
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:07,458
There's so many questions after that. Oh
1091
01:39:07,458 --> 01:39:09,708
yeah. Again, this is just one data point.
1092
01:39:09,708 --> 01:39:11,000
You know, you might tag another one and
1093
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:13,125
it might go to it might go to it might go
1094
01:39:13,125 --> 01:39:15,000
to Canada for all we know. Who knows?
1095
01:39:33,291 --> 01:39:34,833
across these ocean basins,
1096
01:39:34,833 --> 01:39:36,333
they're probably traveling
1097
01:39:36,333 --> 01:39:37,208
at a depth where they
1098
01:39:37,208 --> 01:39:38,375
can't, they're not being caught,
1099
01:39:38,375 --> 01:39:39,375
but it's where they turn up.
1100
01:39:39,666 --> 01:39:40,541
Right. That's where you probably,
1101
01:39:40,750 --> 01:39:41,375
because tire sharks
1102
01:39:41,375 --> 01:39:42,500
are known to be coastal,
1103
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:44,291
as well as oceanic,
1104
01:39:44,291 --> 01:39:45,083
but it's when they get
1105
01:39:45,083 --> 01:39:45,958
into the coastal areas
1106
01:39:45,958 --> 01:39:47,416
that their vulnerability
1107
01:39:47,583 --> 01:39:50,291
in terms of fishing comes into play.
1108
01:39:50,833 --> 01:39:51,458
No, absolutely.
1109
01:39:51,500 --> 01:39:52,083
I mean, you know,
1110
01:39:52,083 --> 01:39:53,250
we've seen, you talk about,
1111
01:39:53,250 --> 01:39:54,500
you know, where sharks will go.
1112
01:39:54,500 --> 01:39:55,750
I mean, we've seen with
1113
01:39:55,750 --> 01:39:56,833
O-Search and the sharks
1114
01:39:56,833 --> 01:39:58,166
that they tag, you know,
1115
01:39:58,166 --> 01:39:59,833
some great whites will,
1116
01:39:59,833 --> 01:40:00,416
you know, do their
1117
01:40:00,416 --> 01:40:01,625
regular pattern in the Atlantic
1118
01:40:01,833 --> 01:40:03,833
going from, what is
1119
01:40:03,833 --> 01:40:06,708
it, up in, what's the,
1120
01:40:07,166 --> 01:40:08,000
loss of words, this is the
1121
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:09,541
island up in Martha's Vineyard.
1122
01:40:10,708 --> 01:40:11,666
Or Martha's Vineyard.
1123
01:40:11,708 --> 01:40:12,416
It's Martha's Vineyard.
1124
01:40:13,208 --> 01:40:13,416
(laughs) Yes.
1125
01:40:14,500 --> 01:40:14,666
Yeah.
1126
01:40:14,875 --> 01:40:15,541
Is it Cape something?
1127
01:40:15,791 --> 01:40:16,500
Is it not Cape something?
1128
01:40:18,291 --> 01:40:18,875
It doesn't matter.
1129
01:40:19,250 --> 01:40:20,125
Martha's Vineyard, and
1130
01:40:20,125 --> 01:40:21,083
they go down to Jacksonville,
1131
01:40:21,333 --> 01:40:22,208
like in the winters.
1132
01:40:22,625 --> 01:40:22,833
Right.
1133
01:40:23,500 --> 01:40:24,666
But, and then every once in a while,
1134
01:40:24,666 --> 01:40:25,833
you'll see one go out to the
1135
01:40:25,833 --> 01:40:27,583
Mid-Atlantic, like, rich,
1136
01:40:27,958 --> 01:40:30,125
you know, and so you're just like, okay,
1137
01:40:30,166 --> 01:40:31,333
where did that one go?
1138
01:40:31,333 --> 01:40:32,291
And why did it go there?
1139
01:40:32,291 --> 01:40:32,791
Did it get lost?
1140
01:40:33,041 --> 01:40:34,000
Like, is it there for a reason?
1141
01:40:34,916 --> 01:40:36,166
So yeah, there's a lot of
1142
01:40:36,166 --> 01:40:37,125
stuff that we need to know.
1143
01:40:37,125 --> 01:40:37,958
And maybe that just kind
1144
01:40:37,958 --> 01:40:39,458
of introduces another study
1145
01:40:39,458 --> 01:40:41,375
where we start looking at
1146
01:40:41,375 --> 01:40:42,833
tiger sharks in the Cape Verde area
1147
01:40:43,000 --> 01:40:44,333
or even the Brazil area
1148
01:40:44,333 --> 01:40:45,791
to start tagging them more,
1149
01:40:46,500 --> 01:40:47,500
just to find out where they're going
1150
01:40:47,500 --> 01:40:48,791
and what that means for
1151
01:40:48,791 --> 01:40:49,916
conservation purposes.
1152
01:40:50,166 --> 01:40:51,875
We know sharks are the
1153
01:40:51,875 --> 01:40:52,666
top of the food chain
1154
01:40:52,666 --> 01:40:53,750
in many of these ecosystems
1155
01:40:53,750 --> 01:40:55,625
and they play a very important role.
1156
01:40:55,916 --> 01:40:57,416
So I would hate to see
1157
01:40:57,416 --> 01:40:58,666
them get caught, you know,
1158
01:40:58,666 --> 01:40:59,833
on the way over.
1159
01:41:21,916 --> 01:41:22,250
Yeah. And then you're like, okay,
1160
01:41:23,250 --> 01:41:24,833
these tiger sharks are going to show up
1161
01:41:24,833 --> 01:41:26,958
in an approximate this location in Brazil
1162
01:41:26,958 --> 01:41:27,375
at this time of year.
1163
01:41:27,916 --> 01:41:29,791
That's where you can
1164
01:41:29,791 --> 01:41:31,458
really look to do something.
1165
01:41:31,791 --> 01:41:33,208
I just think it's going to be really
1166
01:41:33,208 --> 01:41:36,458
tough to try to put together some policy
1167
01:41:36,458 --> 01:41:38,791
for when they're transiting across there.
1168
01:41:38,916 --> 01:41:39,291
Yeah.
1169
01:41:39,291 --> 01:41:41,208
But if you know they're going to be in
1170
01:41:41,208 --> 01:41:43,000
this location at this time of the year,
1171
01:41:43,333 --> 01:41:44,416
then you can do something.
1172
01:41:44,416 --> 01:41:45,500
Because then you're more dealing with,
1173
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:49,333
you're within national boundaries with
1174
01:41:49,333 --> 01:41:52,500
economic occlusive zones.
1175
01:41:52,750 --> 01:41:53,500
Yeah, absolutely.
1176
01:41:53,500 --> 01:41:55,625
So you can do something there, I think.
1177
01:41:55,625 --> 01:41:56,833
But it's fascinating study.
1178
01:41:56,833 --> 01:41:57,875
I'm really glad we had
1179
01:41:57,875 --> 01:41:59,583
Rachel on to talk about this.
1180
01:41:59,833 --> 01:42:01,125
And as you mentioned, we're going to get
1181
01:42:01,125 --> 01:42:02,208
a couple episodes up here.
1182
01:42:02,208 --> 01:42:03,916
We're going to have her on back on for
1183
01:42:03,916 --> 01:42:06,083
another exciting talk about
1184
01:42:06,625 --> 01:42:08,875
Sawfish, which I'm really, that was a
1185
01:42:08,875 --> 01:42:10,458
bonus for us talking to her.
1186
01:42:10,458 --> 01:42:11,541
This one, we found out like, oh, there's
1187
01:42:11,541 --> 01:42:12,208
this other study we
1188
01:42:12,208 --> 01:42:13,500
need to have her on for.
1189
01:42:13,875 --> 01:42:14,875
So anyway, stay tuned.
1190
01:42:15,208 --> 01:42:18,000
I have to say when we first brought
1191
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:20,166
Rachel on our first
1192
01:42:20,166 --> 01:42:21,666
attempt to do the recording,
1193
01:42:22,125 --> 01:42:23,750
we ended up talking so much, just about
1194
01:42:23,750 --> 01:42:25,208
everything that we spent
1195
01:42:25,208 --> 01:42:26,791
about probably two hours talking.
1196
01:42:26,833 --> 01:42:28,250
And never recording an episode.
1197
01:42:28,250 --> 01:42:28,875
And she's like, hey, can
1198
01:42:28,875 --> 01:42:29,916
we do this another time?
1199
01:42:29,916 --> 01:42:30,541
Cause I've read it at a
1200
01:42:30,541 --> 01:42:31,708
time where like, yeah, no, no.
1201
01:42:31,708 --> 01:42:33,208
So we, and then we brought it back.
1202
01:42:33,208 --> 01:42:33,708
And then she's like, we
1203
01:42:33,708 --> 01:42:34,416
could talk about this.
1204
01:42:34,416 --> 01:42:35,333
Then we have this other study.
1205
01:42:35,333 --> 01:42:35,791
Then we have this other study.
1206
01:42:35,791 --> 01:42:36,750
It's like, let's just
1207
01:42:36,750 --> 01:42:37,791
bring it on for studies.
1208
01:42:37,791 --> 01:42:40,291
And this is just like, I want people, if
1209
01:42:40,291 --> 01:42:41,583
you've been listening for this long,
1210
01:42:41,583 --> 01:42:43,416
I want people to know if you're in shark
1211
01:42:43,416 --> 01:42:45,041
research or shark science or shark
1212
01:42:45,125 --> 01:42:46,791
conservation and you have a story you
1213
01:42:46,791 --> 01:42:48,541
want to talk about, you know,
1214
01:42:48,541 --> 01:42:50,750
get ahold of Dave and I Dave, if people
1215
01:42:50,750 --> 01:42:51,416
want to get ahold of
1216
01:42:51,416 --> 01:42:52,208
you, where will they go?
1217
01:42:53,083 --> 01:42:56,750
Go to a law shark guy on Instagram or
1218
01:42:56,750 --> 01:42:58,125
Facebook law sharks.
1219
01:42:58,666 --> 01:43:01,375
And then the best ways, or if you get
1220
01:43:01,375 --> 01:43:02,000
ahold of me through the
1221
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:03,125
university Pacific shark
1222
01:43:03,125 --> 01:43:04,000
research center at San
1223
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:04,916
Jose state university.
1224
01:43:05,250 --> 01:43:06,125
Yeah, for sure.
1225
01:43:06,125 --> 01:43:07,583
And then if you want to get ahold of me,
1226
01:43:07,916 --> 01:43:08,916
just, well, if you want
1227
01:43:08,916 --> 01:43:09,875
to contact both of us,
1228
01:43:09,875 --> 01:43:12,375
you can do that at beyond just pod on
1229
01:43:12,375 --> 01:43:13,791
Instagram, but if
1230
01:43:13,791 --> 01:43:14,625
people want to get ahold
1231
01:43:14,625 --> 01:43:16,458
of us to get more content out and they
1232
01:43:16,458 --> 01:43:17,250
want to, they want to
1233
01:43:17,250 --> 01:43:18,041
talk about their research
1234
01:43:18,166 --> 01:43:20,250
project, as long as it has to do with
1235
01:43:20,250 --> 01:43:23,083
sharks or around that topic, feel free.
1236
01:43:23,083 --> 01:43:24,541
We can't guarantee you'll be on, but we'd
1237
01:43:24,541 --> 01:43:25,458
love to hear from you
1238
01:43:25,458 --> 01:43:26,583
and see what you're up to.
1239
01:43:26,583 --> 01:43:28,083
But thank you so much, Dave.
1240
01:43:28,375 --> 01:43:30,458
And thank you so much, Rachel, for, for
1241
01:43:30,458 --> 01:43:31,666
sharing that story with us.
1242
01:43:31,666 --> 01:43:32,333
A great study.
1243
01:43:32,875 --> 01:43:34,041
And we look forward to
1244
01:43:34,041 --> 01:43:35,458
hearing from all of you next time.
1245
01:43:35,458 --> 01:43:36,666
Thank you so much for joining us on the
1246
01:43:36,666 --> 01:43:37,583
Beyond Jaws podcast from
1247
01:43:37,583 --> 01:43:39,125
Dave and I have a great day.
1248
01:43:39,125 --> 01:43:39,666
We'll talk to you next
1249
01:43:39,666 --> 01:43:40,875
time and happy conservation.
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,916
Welcome back to another episode of the
2
01:00:01,916 --> 01:00:02,750
Beyond Jaws podcast.
3
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:04,000
On today's episode, we're gonna be
4
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,041
talking to Rachel Graham,
5
01:00:06,166 --> 01:00:07,500
who's here to tell us about a study
6
01:00:07,833 --> 01:00:08,625
where they recorded
7
01:00:08,625 --> 01:00:10,291
the longest Transatlantic
8
01:00:10,541 --> 01:00:12,708
Tiger Shark migration ever.
9
01:00:13,041 --> 01:00:15,333
And it's 18,000 kilometers
10
01:00:15,333 --> 01:00:17,500
there and back from Cape Verde
11
01:00:17,916 --> 01:00:19,583
to Brazil and then back.
12
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,166
It's gonna be an exciting episode
13
01:00:21,166 --> 01:00:21,750
because this is
14
01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:23,500
something that is groundbreaking.
15
01:00:23,916 --> 01:00:26,250
So it's groundbreaking news, news update.
16
01:00:26,583 --> 01:00:27,583
We're gonna talk to Rachel.
17
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:28,833
Let's start the show.
18
01:00:28,875 --> 01:00:29,708
Hey everybody, welcome back
19
01:00:29,708 --> 01:00:30,791
to another exciting episode
20
01:00:30,916 --> 01:00:32,000
of the Beyond Jaws podcast.
21
01:00:32,250 --> 01:00:33,041
I'm your cohost, Andrew
22
01:00:33,041 --> 01:00:34,125
Loewen here with my cohost,
23
01:00:34,666 --> 01:00:35,458
Dr. David Ebert.
24
01:00:36,041 --> 01:00:40,541
Dave, the largest Transatlantic migration
25
01:00:40,833 --> 01:00:42,291
that we've seen a Tiger Shark do.
26
01:00:42,291 --> 01:00:44,916
This is the second longest migration
27
01:00:45,291 --> 01:00:46,541
that we've seen a Tiger Shark do.
28
01:00:47,375 --> 01:00:50,708
When you get a shark
29
01:00:50,708 --> 01:00:52,541
like this to do what it does
30
01:00:52,541 --> 01:00:53,958
or you discover a shark can do this,
31
01:00:54,416 --> 01:00:56,166
like from a scientific perspective,
32
01:00:56,166 --> 01:00:57,708
what goes through your mind?
33
01:00:57,708 --> 01:00:58,791
Like, does your heart
34
01:00:58,791 --> 01:01:00,208
start palpitating and stuff?
35
01:01:00,500 --> 01:01:01,208
Like what goes through that?
36
01:01:01,208 --> 01:01:02,041
Well, what it tells
37
01:01:02,041 --> 01:01:03,250
you is these large sharks
38
01:01:03,250 --> 01:01:04,958
like the White Shark and the Tiger Shark,
39
01:01:05,416 --> 01:01:08,708
they use immense portions of the ocean
40
01:01:09,291 --> 01:01:10,375
for their migratory routes.
41
01:01:10,708 --> 01:01:11,333
And so you really
42
01:01:11,333 --> 01:01:12,166
have this thing crossing
43
01:01:12,375 --> 01:01:14,583
across the Atlantic and back, you know,
44
01:01:14,583 --> 01:01:16,000
it's 18,000 kilometers.
45
01:01:16,541 --> 01:01:17,791
It's phenomenal movement pattern.
46
01:01:18,458 --> 01:01:19,333
And you know, the one
47
01:01:19,333 --> 01:01:20,083
hand it's not surprising
48
01:01:20,083 --> 01:01:21,583
because it's a big shark doing that,
49
01:01:21,583 --> 01:01:23,958
but at the same time, you
50
01:01:23,958 --> 01:01:25,000
really get an appreciation
51
01:01:25,250 --> 01:01:25,875
for like, wow, these
52
01:01:25,875 --> 01:01:26,916
things can really cover
53
01:01:27,041 --> 01:01:27,875
a lot of ground.
54
01:01:28,458 --> 01:01:29,083
And I think like with the
55
01:01:29,083 --> 01:01:30,250
White Shark a few years ago,
56
01:01:30,250 --> 01:01:31,083
and we realized like in
57
01:01:31,083 --> 01:01:32,250
the Pacific that they migrate
58
01:01:32,416 --> 01:01:33,666
from say California
59
01:01:33,666 --> 01:01:35,333
out to Hawaii seasonally,
60
01:01:35,750 --> 01:01:36,416
you really get an
61
01:01:36,416 --> 01:01:38,083
appreciation for just how far,
62
01:01:38,583 --> 01:01:39,458
how much territory
63
01:01:39,458 --> 01:01:41,208
these things can cover.
64
01:01:41,791 --> 01:01:43,041
And so in terms of
65
01:01:43,041 --> 01:01:44,000
like from a conservation
66
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,583
or from a management stuff, you're
67
01:01:46,583 --> 01:01:47,666
basically starting to,
68
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,208
you're in an area of like, you know,
69
01:01:51,750 --> 01:01:54,208
international jurisdictions beyond boundaries
70
01:01:54,208 --> 01:01:55,875
or I'm not using the right term,
71
01:01:55,958 --> 01:01:57,458
but basically it's international water.
72
01:01:57,958 --> 01:01:58,375
The high seas.
73
01:01:58,791 --> 01:01:59,208
The high seas.
74
01:01:59,458 --> 01:01:59,958
Yeah, exactly.
75
01:02:00,750 --> 01:02:01,041
And stuff.
76
01:02:01,375 --> 01:02:02,708
And but you want to, but you know, also
77
01:02:02,708 --> 01:02:04,541
like where these things go,
78
01:02:04,541 --> 01:02:05,500
because they're certainly not catching
79
01:02:05,500 --> 01:02:07,083
them that frequently out there.
80
01:02:07,083 --> 01:02:08,666
You might get the odd one here and there,
81
01:02:08,666 --> 01:02:10,750
but so they probably are moving at depth.
82
01:02:10,750 --> 01:02:12,500
So they're beyond any typical type of
83
01:02:12,500 --> 01:02:14,500
fishing areas as a
84
01:02:14,500 --> 01:02:16,000
transit across the Atlantic or
85
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,791
in the Pacific, which had an
86
01:02:17,791 --> 01:02:20,791
even longer migratory route.
87
01:02:21,625 --> 01:02:22,458
But you also can get
88
01:02:22,458 --> 01:02:23,333
an idea like, you know,
89
01:02:23,333 --> 01:02:24,708
at this time of year, these tiger sharks
90
01:02:24,708 --> 01:02:25,875
are probably going to show up.
91
01:02:25,916 --> 01:02:27,791
In this location or that location, which
92
01:02:27,791 --> 01:02:30,125
is really kind of cool to see.
93
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So, yeah, I'm excited about it.
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I'm excited to hear about
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Rachel's story about this.
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And it's been a while
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since she's been on the show.
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So it'll be good to
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catch up with her in general.
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Absolutely. And just a spoiler alert, she
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did have another story that we're going
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to be posting in a few episodes time.
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So, you know, if you want to, if people
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here want to listen to that,
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they don't want to miss it.
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Just hit that follow button or subscribe
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01:02:51,791 --> 01:02:53,125
button, depending on where you're
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01:02:53,125 --> 01:02:54,416
listening to this episode.
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Let's how about we start the interview
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01:02:57,041 --> 01:02:59,125
with Rachel Graham and get into it and
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01:02:59,125 --> 01:03:00,375
find out all the different,
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01:03:00,375 --> 01:03:02,875
the juicy details of how this study began
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and what they found and what that's
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that's going to tell us about with our
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conservation in the future. So here is
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the interview with Rachel Graham.
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Enjoy. We'll talk to you after. Hey,
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Rachel, welcome back to
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the Beyond Jaws podcast.
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Are you ready to talk about tiger sharks?
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Oh, I am so ready. Andrew and Dave, it's
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01:03:20,750 --> 01:03:21,833
lovely to be here again.
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Thank you for having me
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on your show. I love it.
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We can't wait.
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Well, we have another episode of Beyond
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01:03:27,250 --> 01:03:29,208
Jaws podcast with a powerhouse guest
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today who has been on our show on our
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17th episode back in
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March of 2022. She's a real true
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entrepreneur and a real pioneer.
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We have the fabulous Dr.
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Rachel Graham on the show today.
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In fact, she has so much
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to share with us today.
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We're going to make this into two
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episodes, which will be airing soon.
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Rachel, just for quick background, she's
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01:03:48,250 --> 01:03:49,333
the founder and director of the Mar
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Alliance organization,
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01:03:51,125 --> 01:03:51,875
which is a science based
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conservation organization with field
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01:03:53,916 --> 01:03:56,333
stations in Belize, Panama, Honduras,
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Mexico, Micronesia, Cabo
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San Luc, no Cabo Verde.
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01:03:59,333 --> 01:04:00,541
And probably a few other places that I'm
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01:04:00,541 --> 01:04:04,083
forgetting right now. Rachel has her BSC
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01:04:04,083 --> 01:04:05,500
in zoology from Oxford,
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an MSC from Edinburgh and a
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PhD from the University of York in the
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UK. She's worked at a number of places,
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including the U.N.,
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the University of York,
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Smithsonian Wildlife Conservation
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Society. And she's
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literally worked all over the world.
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And she's founded the
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Mar Alliance in 2014.
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And she really made a name for herself.
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We're studying whale sharks.
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And she did the first PhD thesis on whale
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sharks from a research in Belize.
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And they say she's a real entrepreneur.
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She had a paper come out on tiger shark
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movements in the Atlantic.
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So we thought it was
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time to have her back on.
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Long overdue. Rachel, welcome back.
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Thank you. It's a joy to be back.
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And it's great to be able to talk about
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something else that has
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stripes, not just whale sharks.
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Yeah, that's great.
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So so why don't you just tell us, tell
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us, tell us about your study and about
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these amazing findings you have.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So one of the reasons why this study came
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into prominence is that a
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couple of different reasons.
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But the main one is that we were doing a
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large baseline survey in Cape Verde.
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This is with local fishers, our national
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coordinators, Eddie Seymour and our
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communications officer, Cynthia Lima.
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And what we were finding in this baseline
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survey is a whole really fantastic
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diversity of sharks around the
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archipelago of Cape Verde,
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especially the eastern islands Salvo,
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Vista and Mayo, using primarily baited
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remote underwater videos.
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But what was popping up
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occasionally were also tiger sharks.
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And, you know, we decided we were going
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to follow up on some of the bruv
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sightings with some
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scientific long lines.
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So our standardized long line protocol
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short soak 90, no more than 90 minutes
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standardized, made at
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circle hooks, et cetera.
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And we decided to give it a try up in the
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island of Salvo, where tiger sharks have
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been caught by fishermen,
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sometimes dragged to the
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tourist docks shown off.
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I've got some rather egregious pictures
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of tourists like hauling back the heads
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of of tiger sharks and all the rest.
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And we thought, you know, there's not a
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lot known about tiger sharks in West
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Africa, especially not in Cape Verde.
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And so that kind of kick
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started our study there.
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And what we found dumbfounded us because
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as soon as we were dropping these long
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lines, it wasn't four
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minutes before the first
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tiger shark would hit. Then
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number two, then number three.
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I mean, it just kind of went on.
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And so what we what we did is we really
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wanted to understand,
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well, why are they there?
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What's your spatial
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ecology and so much more?
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And so we ended up satellite tagging a
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whole host of them, actually 12, to be to
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be precise and not just in Salve, but in
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some other areas of Cape Verde.
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And the big finding is that they're not
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just sticking to Cape Verde, which is,
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you know, not that much of a surprise,
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but the cherry on the surprise cake was
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the a large three
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meter plus female tiger.
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When we actually tagged in Boa Vista.
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Deciding she was going
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to hot foot it to Brazil.
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I guess she thought the Kypereanias were
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better there than in Cape Verde.
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And she ended up doing yes, exactly.
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She ended up doing this incredible voyage
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going very close to where we had sharks
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International Jean Passot and his see,
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and then Fernando de Noronja and and kind
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of ambled around there for a
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little while before actually
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returning to Cape Verde and waters and
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that entire journey spent almost 18,000
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kilometers and about 404 days, which when
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I was doing a quick calculation, that's
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like moving 44 kilometers a day.
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So you're booking it.
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You have to have a
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somehow a sense of purpose.
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And in fact, you can see that
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the journey is quite directed.
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So of course, that raised a ton of
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questions about, well, is she going there
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to me? Is she going there to pop?
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And of course, confirming that
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transatlantic crossing that had never
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been fully confirmed previously, it had
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been hinted at, but never.
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And it was a double transatlantic.
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So thankfully, that satellite tag worked
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long enough for us to see that these
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animals really need entire ocean basins
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in order to fulfill
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their lifecycle requirements.
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Did you know that there was such a
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population of tiger sharks are initially
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because not some I mean, just people know
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that Cape Verde's are just
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01:08:58,083 --> 01:08:59,500
off sort of Northwest Africa.
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Look on a map.
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But I mean, there's so
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little known out there.
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I had no idea there was there was such a
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these tiger sharks were there any number.
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So this was really new to us.
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So we started work kind of 2015 2016 and
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and as I mentioned, we did a beta remote
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underwater survey,
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which is actually published.
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It's up on our website, Mar lines.org.
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If you look under resources, we try to
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01:09:21,833 --> 01:09:22,791
make our papers available.
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So because, you know,
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people need to access data.
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And so it makes it easy for everybody to
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01:09:30,791 --> 01:09:33,416
be able to see what's been done in,
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01:09:33,416 --> 01:09:34,833
especially in tropical countries where
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01:09:34,833 --> 01:09:36,208
you can't afford these subscriptions.
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01:09:36,791 --> 01:09:40,875
So that's another thing to discuss on
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01:09:40,875 --> 01:09:44,166
another podcast in another day is access
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01:09:44,166 --> 01:09:45,083
the information
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01:09:45,083 --> 01:09:46,833
democratization of science.
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But with respect to to tiger sharks and
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01:09:51,458 --> 01:09:53,583
Cape Verde, you know, based on those
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01:09:53,583 --> 01:09:56,000
initial pieces of work, we started
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01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,125
hearing also we did fishermen surveys.
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All the way back when back in 2016 and
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01:10:01,916 --> 01:10:03,458
some of the information that was rolling
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01:10:03,458 --> 01:10:05,666
in was, you know, there are these catches
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and that's a catch of tiger sharks.
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And that's really what put a B in in
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Dettie's bonnet and my bonnet.
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And we said, let's go and figure it out.
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And so the following the following
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summer, which is the the period of time
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in Cape Verde, when you have some of the
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01:10:22,916 --> 01:10:23,958
calmest waters,
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because it can be very rough.
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We're talking about the eastern Atlantic
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directly west from Senegal.
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01:10:30,125 --> 01:10:30,708
And, you know, when you're
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out there, you're out there.
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You better hope that your boat has two
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01:10:34,208 --> 01:10:37,083
engines because you're really out in the
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01:10:37,083 --> 01:10:39,125
middle of the Atlantic practically in
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what it feels that way.
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So, yes. And that's why we
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01:10:43,708 --> 01:10:46,250
focus that survey on tigers.
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The other reason, too, is that we were
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seeing an increase in
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01:10:50,416 --> 01:10:52,625
fishing effort on sharks.
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And it's one of the reasons why we were
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concerned that there was
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01:10:58,583 --> 01:11:00,791
ramping up of shark fishing.
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And at the same time, there was a need
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01:11:03,291 --> 01:11:07,000
for more information based on the
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01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,833
national action plan for sharks that had
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01:11:09,833 --> 01:11:13,583
been that was kind of under in the works
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01:11:13,583 --> 01:11:16,666
by Mika Jopin Senegal, who had been hired
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01:11:16,666 --> 01:11:17,750
by the Cape Verdean
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01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:19,208
government to help them with that.
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I have to ask you because Cape Verde,
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01:11:22,916 --> 01:11:24,541
I've actually been there, but it's
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01:11:24,541 --> 01:11:26,083
because it's in the middle of nowhere.
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Litter. It's like some rocks in the
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01:11:27,541 --> 01:11:29,666
middle of the ocean. Yeah. How did you
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01:11:29,666 --> 01:11:32,958
happen to like stumble on to thinking
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01:11:32,958 --> 01:11:34,500
this would be an interesting place to
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01:11:34,500 --> 01:11:35,666
study the sharks out there?
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01:11:36,416 --> 01:11:38,000
So it's funny, you should say, ha.
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I've as I started my career in 98 with
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whale sharks, I was always looking to see
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01:11:44,666 --> 01:11:47,250
where are whale sharks going. And what I
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01:11:47,250 --> 01:11:48,708
was seeing is whale sharks are moving
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01:11:48,708 --> 01:11:51,416
from one feeding site to the next and
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01:11:51,416 --> 01:11:53,041
starting to see these patterns of
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01:11:53,041 --> 01:11:55,458
connectivity migration and connectivity
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01:11:55,458 --> 01:11:56,541
movement connectivity
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in the Western Atlantic.
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And that's how I pulled together a whole
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01:12:01,458 --> 01:12:03,333
bunch of different researchers who might
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01:12:03,333 --> 01:12:05,333
be interested in working on whale sharks
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from the Flower Garden Banks National
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01:12:08,250 --> 01:12:11,458
Marine Sanctuary to Holbox Cancun,
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01:12:11,916 --> 01:12:14,208
Honduras, Cuba and more.
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And it's actually whale sharks that
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01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,833
initially got me interested in Cape Verde
366
01:12:19,833 --> 01:12:22,583
because I was looking at the whole
367
01:12:22,583 --> 01:12:26,416
Western the whole West Africa eat and
368
01:12:26,416 --> 01:12:30,333
from, I don't know, a Western Sahara all
369
01:12:30,333 --> 01:12:32,625
the way down to Angola. What's the status
370
01:12:32,625 --> 01:12:33,791
of whale sharks and even
371
01:12:33,791 --> 01:12:35,208
manta rays then we didn't know.
372
01:12:35,250 --> 01:12:39,000
So I started looking into what patterns
373
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:43,250
of movement might be elucidated there.
374
01:12:44,666 --> 01:12:47,958
And so at that time, I went originally to
375
01:12:47,958 --> 01:12:50,000
try and study some of the whale sharks
376
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,583
and the manta rays. And then, of course,
377
01:12:52,791 --> 01:12:54,416
through the fisher surveys and the bruv
378
01:12:54,416 --> 01:12:57,166
surveys, we stumbled across all these
379
01:12:57,166 --> 01:12:59,208
other species, tiger sharks,
380
01:12:59,250 --> 01:13:01,500
a spirit of Luini, the scalloped
381
01:13:01,500 --> 01:13:05,083
hammerhead, the regionally endemic
382
01:13:05,083 --> 01:13:09,916
perigailous shark as well. So yeah, so
383
01:13:09,916 --> 01:13:14,291
really, really, whale sharks kind of lead
384
01:13:14,291 --> 01:13:17,750
you to all kinds of other open doors. And
385
01:13:17,750 --> 01:13:19,500
for that, I'm very grateful. And we've
386
01:13:19,500 --> 01:13:21,791
got actually work coming out on the whale
387
01:13:21,791 --> 01:13:23,625
sharks, because we did a lot of work on
388
01:13:23,625 --> 01:13:24,208
the whale sharks
389
01:13:24,208 --> 01:13:25,208
while we were there, too.
390
01:13:25,208 --> 01:13:27,958
Go figure. We've done the manta rays, you
391
01:13:27,958 --> 01:13:31,125
know, fisheries, tiger sharks and whale
392
01:13:31,125 --> 01:13:33,625
sharks as well. So yes, whale sharks led
393
01:13:33,625 --> 01:13:35,291
us to the tiger sharks.
394
01:13:35,500 --> 01:13:37,958
So, so, so there is quite a bit of a
395
01:13:37,958 --> 01:13:39,458
fishery there and you've been documenting
396
01:13:39,458 --> 01:13:40,750
I presume the species that have been
397
01:13:40,750 --> 01:13:42,875
catching it. We got whale sharks, got
398
01:13:42,875 --> 01:13:45,041
tiger sharks, perigailous out there,
399
01:13:45,416 --> 01:13:46,375
which are weasel sharks.
400
01:13:47,666 --> 01:13:50,208
Did you just off the top, just kind of
401
01:13:50,208 --> 01:13:53,458
more of my question is what how many
402
01:13:53,458 --> 01:13:54,333
species of sharks and
403
01:13:54,333 --> 01:13:55,625
rays do you have out there?
404
01:13:56,375 --> 01:13:59,166
I, you know, I should have that number
405
01:13:59,166 --> 01:14:01,416
off the top of my head and I can't answer
406
01:14:01,416 --> 01:14:02,625
you off the top of my head.
407
01:14:02,625 --> 01:14:05,666
Okay, I should I should I just prep study
408
01:14:05,666 --> 01:14:08,541
for the show. I've got to ask those
409
01:14:08,541 --> 01:14:10,166
questions. I just like Dave. Dave's
410
01:14:10,166 --> 01:14:11,000
always like, is there any
411
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:12,208
more sharks I could look for?
412
01:14:12,208 --> 01:14:15,750
Can I discover them? So you definitely,
413
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:17,166
you know, you definitely have you
414
01:14:17,166 --> 01:14:19,583
definitely have a center for us. You've
415
01:14:19,583 --> 01:14:20,916
got fisheries for those. I'd seen
416
01:14:20,916 --> 01:14:23,333
pictures of that ages ago. So we
417
01:14:23,333 --> 01:14:26,791
definitely based on how the archipelago
418
01:14:26,791 --> 01:14:30,500
is is situated and you've got very deep
419
01:14:30,500 --> 01:14:32,875
waters around Cape Verde.
420
01:14:33,208 --> 01:14:34,791
You do have deep water
421
01:14:34,791 --> 01:14:37,250
fisheries and you have deep water.
422
01:14:38,458 --> 01:14:40,500
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's kind
423
01:14:40,500 --> 01:14:42,250
of like I said, it's one of those places
424
01:14:42,250 --> 01:14:44,208
like you would just wouldn't know about
425
01:14:44,208 --> 01:14:46,083
unless you've been there or familiar with
426
01:14:46,083 --> 01:14:47,375
that area or you're looking for whale
427
01:14:47,375 --> 01:14:48,541
sharks, I guess, as
428
01:14:48,541 --> 01:14:49,791
well to kind of stumble.
429
01:14:50,250 --> 01:14:52,791
But you know, the fishes were catching
430
01:14:52,791 --> 01:14:55,000
everything from spinners and black tips
431
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,541
and and a lot of scalloped hammerheads.
432
01:14:58,375 --> 01:15:01,875
They seem to form a lot of the a lot of
433
01:15:01,875 --> 01:15:04,666
the shark oriented fisheries in near
434
01:15:04,666 --> 01:15:05,625
shore coastal waters
435
01:15:05,625 --> 01:15:06,916
because there's another thing too.
436
01:15:07,250 --> 01:15:09,208
There's two classes of fishers. So it's a
437
01:15:09,208 --> 01:15:11,625
small scale fisher who usually has a tiny
438
01:15:11,625 --> 01:15:13,791
little engine like a 15 horsepower or 40
439
01:15:13,791 --> 01:15:16,125
horsepower. So, and they're only really
440
01:15:16,125 --> 01:15:18,666
allowed to actually fish within the
441
01:15:18,666 --> 01:15:20,875
waters of the island where they're
442
01:15:20,875 --> 01:15:23,583
situated. Whereas some of the kind of
443
01:15:23,583 --> 01:15:26,333
midsize more industrial commercial
444
01:15:26,333 --> 01:15:30,125
fishers actually hot between islands.
445
01:15:30,250 --> 01:15:32,208
They're not really supposed to overlap
446
01:15:32,208 --> 01:15:34,291
with the small scale fishers and there's
447
01:15:34,291 --> 01:15:38,083
near shore waters, but unfortunately they
448
01:15:38,083 --> 01:15:40,916
do and that's a conflict that we saw
449
01:15:40,916 --> 01:15:42,708
increasing over time.
450
01:15:43,208 --> 01:15:44,541
Those fishers are more low, but they're
451
01:15:44,541 --> 01:15:46,125
local fishers. Do you have they have much
452
01:15:46,125 --> 01:15:47,791
impact for it? Do you have like foreign
453
01:15:47,791 --> 01:15:48,750
fleets coming into
454
01:15:48,750 --> 01:15:49,208
fishing the waters there?
455
01:15:50,208 --> 01:15:52,083
So there are I mean, there are a host of
456
01:15:52,083 --> 01:15:54,750
foreign fleets in much further away. So
457
01:15:54,750 --> 01:15:56,583
that's one of the things that we were
458
01:15:56,583 --> 01:15:58,416
concerned about, especially when we were
459
01:15:58,416 --> 01:16:00,708
looking at tracing the Tigers paths
460
01:16:00,708 --> 01:16:04,500
moving in and across several
461
01:16:04,500 --> 01:16:05,375
jurisdiction, our
462
01:16:05,375 --> 01:16:07,208
boundaries, several country,
463
01:16:07,250 --> 01:16:13,666
East Ed's and there's big long line per
464
01:16:13,666 --> 01:16:16,916
se net fisheries in that East African
465
01:16:16,916 --> 01:16:19,791
area. Yeah. A lot of Portuguese, a lot of
466
01:16:19,791 --> 01:16:22,625
Spanish, French. Yeah. The usual suspects
467
01:16:22,625 --> 01:16:24,458
generally for that part of
468
01:16:24,458 --> 01:16:25,875
the world. It's fishing. Yeah.
469
01:16:26,250 --> 01:16:30,500
And going back over to your Caribbean
470
01:16:30,500 --> 01:16:33,833
side, have you ever tagged many Tiger
471
01:16:33,833 --> 01:16:35,916
sharks over there off some of the
472
01:16:35,916 --> 01:16:38,708
central? So actually we do have a growing
473
01:16:38,708 --> 01:16:41,750
project on Tigers in
474
01:16:41,750 --> 01:16:43,125
the Caribbean. Yes. Okay.
475
01:16:43,708 --> 01:16:44,791
Because I wonder if they I guess I'm
476
01:16:44,791 --> 01:16:46,375
going to get you is it's too early that
477
01:16:46,375 --> 01:16:48,625
you don't have any big ones and big ones.
478
01:16:48,625 --> 01:16:51,833
Do they mix it all with the population
479
01:16:51,833 --> 01:16:54,250
that you're the Cape
480
01:16:54,250 --> 01:16:55,583
Verde population at all?
481
01:16:56,208 --> 01:16:58,041
So what we're seeing so far is there
482
01:16:58,041 --> 01:17:01,000
either. So what's interesting about the
483
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,041
satellite tagging is that we noticed a
484
01:17:03,041 --> 01:17:05,750
trend that was also reflected in some
485
01:17:05,750 --> 01:17:07,916
other papers, other work that people have
486
01:17:07,916 --> 01:17:10,083
done, which is, you know, often once
487
01:17:10,083 --> 01:17:11,208
they're tagged, they tend to go deep.
488
01:17:11,250 --> 01:17:13,500
They stay deep for a while. And you see
489
01:17:13,500 --> 01:17:15,500
that for on several of the tracks. You
490
01:17:15,500 --> 01:17:17,416
don't see them up near the surface,
491
01:17:17,416 --> 01:17:18,541
surface transmitting. These are spot
492
01:17:18,541 --> 01:17:21,541
tags, right? Not pop up archival tags
493
01:17:21,541 --> 01:17:26,375
that we were using. So what we're seeing
494
01:17:26,375 --> 01:17:29,000
is that the animals that we've been
495
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:33,625
tagging really go deep and stay deep for
496
01:17:33,625 --> 01:17:35,125
quite some time. And then they'll be
497
01:17:35,125 --> 01:17:37,625
crossing big stretches of water, but
498
01:17:37,625 --> 01:17:41,208
they're not going across the water.
499
01:17:41,208 --> 01:17:43,500
So that's clearly a classic the Caribbean
500
01:17:43,500 --> 01:17:46,541
or to the other side of the Atlantic yet,
501
01:17:46,750 --> 01:17:48,500
but you never know. Well, that's the
502
01:17:48,500 --> 01:17:50,208
thing I like, are you going to look at
503
01:17:50,208 --> 01:17:53,541
some kind of isotope study or do you take
504
01:17:53,541 --> 01:17:56,541
like so we have a lot of yes, we have a
505
01:17:56,541 --> 01:17:58,208
lot of things planned actually.
506
01:17:59,208 --> 01:18:00,750
And I also want to look at that because
507
01:18:00,750 --> 01:18:03,000
we want to look at their gestational
508
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:07,250
cycle as well, because it's suspected
509
01:18:07,250 --> 01:18:09,541
that they might be biennial in their
510
01:18:09,541 --> 01:18:13,750
reproduction. But we have so much to
511
01:18:13,750 --> 01:18:16,750
learn. And what we've seen is that we're
512
01:18:16,750 --> 01:18:19,416
finding with bruv work and even long line
513
01:18:19,416 --> 01:18:23,250
work, we'll catch really small animals in
514
01:18:23,250 --> 01:18:24,416
a whole host of different
515
01:18:24,416 --> 01:18:26,000
places along coastlines.
516
01:18:26,250 --> 01:18:31,541
So that whole that whole mention of
517
01:18:31,541 --> 01:18:36,083
extended popping areas for tigers appears
518
01:18:36,083 --> 01:18:39,000
to be true, at least in the parts of the
519
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:40,500
Caribbean where we've been working.
520
01:18:42,916 --> 01:18:45,583
So if there's a is there a specific site
521
01:18:45,583 --> 01:18:47,375
where you're seeing a lot of these
522
01:18:47,375 --> 01:18:48,791
neonates, young of the
523
01:18:48,791 --> 01:18:50,750
years, we haven't found that yet.
524
01:18:51,208 --> 01:18:53,916
Okay, we do know that there are a couple
525
01:18:53,916 --> 01:18:56,833
of sites where we can
526
01:18:56,833 --> 01:18:59,625
find larger females.
527
01:19:00,208 --> 01:19:00,666
Okay.
528
01:19:02,250 --> 01:19:03,416
How long and that's what we're going to
529
01:19:03,416 --> 01:19:04,708
be focusing on. We're going to be
530
01:19:04,708 --> 01:19:07,500
focusing on for stable isotope analysis
531
01:19:07,500 --> 01:19:10,541
for ultrasound. So we
532
01:19:10,541 --> 01:19:12,708
better understand. Yeah, exactly.
533
01:19:13,458 --> 01:19:17,500
Also population analysis, although what's
534
01:19:17,500 --> 01:19:19,416
been shown is that apparently there's
535
01:19:19,416 --> 01:19:21,375
quite a bit of structuring in the
536
01:19:21,375 --> 01:19:24,125
population in the Atlantic. However, you
537
01:19:24,125 --> 01:19:26,208
then get these wonderful outliers like
538
01:19:26,208 --> 01:19:28,291
kalema, the female tiger shark who then
539
01:19:28,291 --> 01:19:30,625
goes and doesn't double back and forth.
540
01:19:30,916 --> 01:19:32,000
And you know, a lot
541
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:33,916
about these large migrations.
542
01:19:34,250 --> 01:19:35,916
Does it take for them? Like, did you get
543
01:19:35,916 --> 01:19:38,041
the days of like how long it took them to
544
01:19:38,041 --> 01:19:41,416
get do that 18,000 18,000? It was 404
545
01:19:41,416 --> 01:19:46,750
days. So 404 days to do almost 18,000
546
01:19:46,750 --> 01:19:49,291
kilometers. And so that's really that's
547
01:19:49,291 --> 01:19:50,708
swimming at a rapid clip of
548
01:19:50,708 --> 01:19:52,500
about 44 kilometers a day.
549
01:19:53,208 --> 01:19:55,375
Yeah, this was the second largest longest
550
01:19:55,375 --> 01:19:57,625
track you said for a tiger shark is the
551
01:19:57,625 --> 01:20:00,125
Pacific they had some a longer one or
552
01:20:00,125 --> 01:20:03,208
yes, but this is the first big transit
553
01:20:03,208 --> 01:20:05,666
transatlantic track. Yeah.
554
01:20:06,125 --> 01:20:08,000
And just in the one in the Pacific, do
555
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:09,666
you remember where that one went? Do you
556
01:20:09,666 --> 01:20:11,625
remember the distance? Like the distance
557
01:20:11,625 --> 01:20:13,208
or where it went off the top?
558
01:20:14,208 --> 01:20:17,416
To be honest off the top. My ability to
559
01:20:17,416 --> 01:20:20,041
hold facts in my head is diminishing by
560
01:20:20,041 --> 01:20:23,458
the decade. Yeah, I, we won't go there
561
01:20:23,458 --> 01:20:24,708
for this conversation, Rachel.
562
01:20:26,083 --> 01:20:28,166
Andrew, that's where you delete this
563
01:20:28,166 --> 01:20:30,625
little piece right here. So we don't
564
01:20:30,625 --> 01:20:33,500
sound like we're entirely. Yeah, I would
565
01:20:33,500 --> 01:20:35,000
have been able to cite the
566
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:36,208
paper die where they went.
567
01:20:36,208 --> 01:20:39,000
I know. I know. Me too. Can't do it
568
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:40,958
anymore. I remember it. I know it's
569
01:20:40,958 --> 01:20:42,250
there, but I thought it was in the
570
01:20:42,250 --> 01:20:44,166
Pacific, but I just I can't remember the
571
01:20:44,166 --> 01:20:46,708
details on it. So maybe somebody out
572
01:20:46,708 --> 01:20:48,291
there will remember and posted on our
573
01:20:48,291 --> 01:20:50,208
comments when the episode comes out.
574
01:20:50,208 --> 01:20:53,583
Well, I mean, it's it's I mean, that's
575
01:20:53,583 --> 01:20:56,583
easy to that's easy to that's easy to
576
01:20:56,583 --> 01:20:58,000
look up. But one of the things that I
577
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:00,916
really like is that so Kim Holland did a
578
01:21:00,916 --> 01:21:02,875
kind of future of tiger shark research.
579
01:21:02,875 --> 01:21:05,083
And there are several things that he
580
01:21:05,083 --> 01:21:07,500
touched on, which was, you know, is there
581
01:21:07,500 --> 01:21:09,208
a popping aggregation side?
582
01:21:09,250 --> 01:21:12,041
Is there are there some mating size? What
583
01:21:12,041 --> 01:21:14,791
is the reproductive cycle? There's so
584
01:21:14,791 --> 01:21:16,375
many more things that we can discover
585
01:21:16,375 --> 01:21:20,083
with tiger sharks and and the differences
586
01:21:20,083 --> 01:21:21,791
that lie between, for example, the
587
01:21:21,791 --> 01:21:23,375
Atlantic Basin and the
588
01:21:23,375 --> 01:21:26,833
Pacific and so so much more.
589
01:21:26,833 --> 01:21:29,208
So it's kind of exciting discovery time.
590
01:21:29,208 --> 01:21:30,875
It's interesting because, you know, they
591
01:21:30,875 --> 01:21:32,416
I think we're learning more of these
592
01:21:32,416 --> 01:21:33,750
different tags, like with the tiger
593
01:21:33,750 --> 01:21:35,166
sharks with your study, with these things
594
01:21:35,166 --> 01:21:36,208
are moving across the Atlantic.
595
01:21:36,250 --> 01:21:39,291
And that and I think this gets into this
596
01:21:39,291 --> 01:21:41,541
whole thing about, you know, when you're
597
01:21:41,541 --> 01:21:43,625
trying to like look at protecting shark
598
01:21:43,625 --> 01:21:45,166
species, especially some of these large
599
01:21:45,166 --> 01:21:48,000
migratory species that these sharks are
600
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:48,916
moving around a lot.
601
01:21:48,916 --> 01:21:51,166
The bigger the larger ones, you know, we
602
01:21:51,166 --> 01:21:53,125
had that there's a study where the the
603
01:21:53,125 --> 01:21:55,541
they had a white shark moved from Cape
604
01:21:55,541 --> 01:21:56,916
Town all the way out to Indonesia.
605
01:21:57,833 --> 01:22:00,166
And and they've had a couple one go, you
606
01:22:00,166 --> 01:22:01,333
know, they had another wasn't that
607
01:22:01,333 --> 01:22:04,125
Nicole. No, that one went
608
01:22:04,125 --> 01:22:05,208
to Niglo Reed Australia.
609
01:22:05,208 --> 01:22:08,083
That's right. That's right. Oh, my gosh.
610
01:22:08,083 --> 01:22:08,958
Yeah. No, this one went
611
01:22:08,958 --> 01:22:10,750
to that's that's a story.
612
01:22:10,750 --> 01:22:11,708
I think we're gonna do a separate episode
613
01:22:11,708 --> 01:22:13,083
on because it was it was really I
614
01:22:13,083 --> 01:22:14,458
actually got involved with that one.
615
01:22:14,458 --> 01:22:16,625
Finding the thing that tag showed up in
616
01:22:16,625 --> 01:22:19,208
Indonesia and a fisherman had it in the
617
01:22:19,208 --> 01:22:20,750
village for a couple of
618
01:22:20,750 --> 01:22:21,958
years. Oh, right. Yeah.
619
01:22:22,208 --> 01:22:24,208
They just published a paper on it.
620
01:22:24,208 --> 01:22:25,083
Yeah. And I think, you know, it's a really interesting story. Yeah.
621
01:22:25,083 --> 01:22:25,416
But I think that's the point that I think that's the point that you have that the
622
01:22:25,416 --> 01:22:26,958
one that Alison Koch and a whole group of
623
01:22:26,958 --> 01:22:27,708
them there and stuff.
624
01:22:27,708 --> 01:22:30,333
That was a fascinating story. But but the
625
01:22:30,333 --> 01:22:31,875
point that that went all and then you
626
01:22:31,875 --> 01:22:33,125
have the one Nicole, you mentioned that
627
01:22:33,125 --> 01:22:35,541
went from Cape Town to Nigolo Reef up in
628
01:22:35,541 --> 01:22:38,416
Northwest Northwest, Northwest Australia.
629
01:22:45,250 --> 01:22:47,583
Yeah. And you're seeing these big
630
01:22:47,583 --> 01:22:49,833
migrations being performed a lot of the
631
01:22:49,833 --> 01:22:52,291
time by these large adult female sharks.
632
01:22:52,875 --> 01:22:56,000
Yeah. And yeah, great way to great way to
633
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,333
spread the genes and. Yeah.
634
01:22:58,625 --> 01:23:00,708
And of course, there's basket sharks. Now
635
01:23:00,708 --> 01:23:03,250
we see we know they move across the
636
01:23:03,250 --> 01:23:05,291
Atlantic as well as north and south as
637
01:23:05,291 --> 01:23:07,666
now north to south and all the way down
638
01:23:07,666 --> 01:23:09,208
to places like Dominican Republic, etc.
639
01:23:09,250 --> 01:23:12,833
So it's really remarkable the migrations
640
01:23:12,833 --> 01:23:14,500
that they're able to do or even close to
641
01:23:14,500 --> 01:23:16,333
the Western Sahara by recall. Yeah.
642
01:23:16,625 --> 01:23:18,708
When it goes to speak to their fitness at
643
01:23:18,708 --> 01:23:20,416
the time to be able to do that type of
644
01:23:20,416 --> 01:23:22,625
track, right, to move at that speed for
645
01:23:22,625 --> 01:23:24,291
that distance, like they must be feeding
646
01:23:24,291 --> 01:23:27,000
well, you know, in like this one must
647
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:28,500
have fed well and Cape Verde to be able
648
01:23:28,500 --> 01:23:30,750
to get across the Atlantic for that speed
649
01:23:30,750 --> 01:23:32,208
on like, was it 44 kilometers per day?
650
01:23:33,208 --> 01:23:36,833
Yeah, exactly. And and you're absolutely
651
01:23:36,833 --> 01:23:39,000
right. And I think this is where tigers
652
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:42,583
really are are the champions. I think
653
01:23:42,583 --> 01:23:44,416
there was a quote saying that they're the
654
01:23:44,416 --> 01:23:46,458
climate change champions
655
01:23:46,458 --> 01:23:48,541
because they're so adaptable.
656
01:23:49,041 --> 01:23:51,208
They, you know, have a very broad thermal
657
01:23:51,208 --> 01:23:54,291
range. And not only that, they can eat a
658
01:23:54,291 --> 01:23:57,166
whole host of different types of food. So
659
01:23:57,166 --> 01:23:59,125
they'll be very opportunistic in the food
660
01:23:59,125 --> 01:24:01,208
types. I had a really great moment.
661
01:24:01,250 --> 01:24:03,083
Actually, I'm writing up the note at the
662
01:24:03,083 --> 01:24:06,708
moment, where my two of my favorite
663
01:24:06,708 --> 01:24:09,291
species came together with tiger sharks
664
01:24:09,291 --> 01:24:11,666
eating a whale shark off of the coast of
665
01:24:11,666 --> 01:24:14,750
Belize. I was like, wow, a triple wind.
666
01:24:15,833 --> 01:24:24,291
So, so, yeah, so considering that they,
667
01:24:24,291 --> 01:24:26,583
you know, they have this wide thermal
668
01:24:26,583 --> 01:24:28,208
range that they do go to depth.
669
01:24:28,250 --> 01:24:31,625
And they're able to utilize that water
670
01:24:31,625 --> 01:24:34,208
column is for, you know, feeding for
671
01:24:34,208 --> 01:24:37,166
orientation for all of these and
672
01:24:37,166 --> 01:24:40,000
behavioral thermal regulation, then yeah,
673
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:41,541
they're, they're pretty awesome
674
01:24:41,541 --> 01:24:42,208
creatures, I have to say.
675
01:24:42,250 --> 01:24:44,416
And you know, the other thing that also
676
01:24:44,416 --> 01:24:50,000
makes them more likely to to survive
677
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:51,916
longer term, especially with fisheries
678
01:24:51,916 --> 01:24:54,875
pressures is the fact that they're so
679
01:24:54,875 --> 01:24:57,000
hardy on the long line. I was looking at
680
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:00,000
one of the NOAA studies looking at the
681
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:03,083
mortality on long lines and tigers, you
682
01:25:03,083 --> 01:25:04,541
know, four hours later
683
01:25:04,541 --> 01:25:05,208
and they're still alive.
684
01:25:05,250 --> 01:25:08,375
They're like, they're, you know, kind of,
685
01:25:08,375 --> 01:25:09,500
I was like, look at them as like a
686
01:25:09,500 --> 01:25:12,166
garbage can with fins. It's like, they're
687
01:25:12,166 --> 01:25:15,500
literally like, you know, they eat pretty
688
01:25:15,500 --> 01:25:17,208
much anything. They kind of now they seem
689
01:25:17,208 --> 01:25:19,083
to go everywhere. They want. Yeah.
690
01:25:19,333 --> 01:25:21,333
Just like that. I don't know what the,
691
01:25:21,333 --> 01:25:23,541
what the analogy would be for it, but you
692
01:25:23,541 --> 01:25:25,458
know, other even things are white sharks,
693
01:25:25,458 --> 01:25:27,541
like white sharks are, they kind of croak
694
01:25:27,541 --> 01:25:29,583
out pretty easily. If you get them on a
695
01:25:29,583 --> 01:25:31,000
long line, they don't leave a lot of
696
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:32,208
lamb, a lot of lamb, lance to lance.
697
01:25:32,208 --> 01:25:35,583
Don't do well with cortisol stress, et
698
01:25:35,583 --> 01:25:37,708
cetera. But tiger sharks are like, yeah,
699
01:25:38,208 --> 01:25:40,125
pass me the margarita or the kyper media
700
01:25:40,125 --> 01:25:42,916
in this case. Yeah. Exactly. So they're
701
01:25:42,916 --> 01:25:44,875
tough hardy sharks. They're chill.
702
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:46,500
They're very chill. And you know, one
703
01:25:46,500 --> 01:25:47,750
thing that I'm really excited and
704
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:48,875
something that we're going to integrate
705
01:25:48,875 --> 01:25:51,333
into our work moving forward is they've,
706
01:25:51,333 --> 01:25:54,083
they found a new, I wish I, again, it's
707
01:25:54,083 --> 01:25:55,458
like, I wish I could remember everybody
708
01:25:55,458 --> 01:25:57,375
who writes these amazing and does this
709
01:25:57,375 --> 01:25:58,208
amazing work around the world.
710
01:25:58,208 --> 01:26:03,458
But there is a new way to identify photo
711
01:26:03,458 --> 01:26:06,083
ID tiger sharks, and it's not on the
712
01:26:06,083 --> 01:26:09,500
stripes and dots, which do fade as they
713
01:26:09,500 --> 01:26:11,583
get larger. And so it's probably more
714
01:26:11,583 --> 01:26:13,125
difficult to be able to identify
715
01:26:13,125 --> 01:26:14,958
individuals. And that's kind of what we
716
01:26:14,958 --> 01:26:16,875
were focusing on. And I was thinking,
717
01:26:16,875 --> 01:26:18,041
what are we going to do? Because I do
718
01:26:18,041 --> 01:26:20,333
know that they fade. Well, what's really
719
01:26:20,333 --> 01:26:23,500
cool is that line between the gray and
720
01:26:23,500 --> 01:26:26,083
the white on the belly is very kind of
721
01:26:26,083 --> 01:26:26,208
serrated and edgy. That apparently is
not what we're going to do.
722
01:26:29,958 --> 01:26:33,875
And so that is the basis for doing ID and
723
01:26:33,875 --> 01:26:39,250
technique. Yes. Yeah. And in fact, Jason
724
01:26:39,250 --> 01:26:41,250
Holmberg, who was the architect behind
725
01:26:41,250 --> 01:26:44,125
all the photo IDs for whale sharks and
726
01:26:44,125 --> 01:26:46,125
has now joined the conservation X labs
727
01:26:46,125 --> 01:26:49,083
with his wild me outfit just pinged me
728
01:26:49,083 --> 01:26:51,208
and said, Hey, we've got a new photo ID thing for tiger sharks we want to try out.
729
01:26:51,208 --> 01:26:56,750
Want to be part of it? And I'm like, yes,
730
01:26:57,208 --> 01:27:00,125
yes, absolutely. So yeah. So you see,
731
01:27:00,125 --> 01:27:04,416
again, whale sharks lead. Yeah. All roads
732
01:27:04,416 --> 01:27:06,541
lead to tiger tiger sharks from disparate
733
01:27:06,541 --> 01:27:09,333
sources, especially through whale sharks
734
01:27:09,333 --> 01:27:11,416
is perfect. Yeah. Well, you know, it's
735
01:27:11,416 --> 01:27:12,208
those stripes and spots again. That's it. That's it. Right? Yeah.
736
01:27:13,208 --> 01:27:18,000
I'm not going to say that I'm still like
737
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:20,041
in search of my first whale shark in the
738
01:27:20,041 --> 01:27:22,375
field. So I'm just Dave has had some. Oh,
739
01:27:22,375 --> 01:27:24,583
Dave, give it up. Come and join me in
740
01:27:24,583 --> 01:27:27,500
Mexico. Come on. Yeah. I've been to
741
01:27:27,500 --> 01:27:29,000
Mexico and I've never seen him there, but
742
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:30,208
I'll, I'll have to hit you up here some time and go see him.
743
01:27:30,208 --> 01:27:33,958
Every time I show up there, they're not
744
01:27:33,958 --> 01:27:37,208
there. It's just, um, just my, my, I
745
01:27:37,208 --> 01:27:38,041
don't know. They have, they have an
746
01:27:38,041 --> 01:27:39,875
allergy to Dave. As soon as he shows up,
747
01:27:39,875 --> 01:27:41,833
every day, every day, oh yeah, come here.
748
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,041
No problem. You'll see plenty of them. I
749
01:27:44,041 --> 01:27:45,666
show up there. Now I don't know what's
750
01:27:45,666 --> 01:27:46,916
going on this year. They're, they seem to
751
01:27:46,916 --> 01:27:48,208
be late. And then as soon as I leave,
752
01:27:48,250 --> 01:27:50,041
like two days later, they're all, you
753
01:27:50,041 --> 01:27:51,250
know what they're doing. They're like,
754
01:27:51,250 --> 01:27:53,375
here, let us show you how deep we can
755
01:27:53,375 --> 01:27:55,166
dive. Cause we know you like deep diving
756
01:27:55,166 --> 01:27:57,500
sharks. Let us show you how deep we can
757
01:27:57,500 --> 01:27:59,625
dive. So that's why you have to look for
758
01:27:59,625 --> 01:28:00,208
you. Like, where did he go? He's like, oh, I'm going to get him. I'm going to get him. I'm going
to get him. I'm going to get him. I'm going to get him. I'm going to get him. I'm going to get
759
01:28:00,208 --> 01:28:08,875
him. You got to go. That's innocent. And
760
01:28:08,875 --> 01:28:09,000
that puts them in
761
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:26,000
aKkoma. That does result in
762
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:26,500
no effect. That's aauntlet that we all have. And that has become the most incredible and
763
01:28:26,500 --> 01:28:26,750
accompanabe, the tensor from this, the lake sense. We did a special
incredibly amazing Time volt DEVEX exploded pre pregnancies
764
01:28:26,750 --> 01:28:27,583
about their restoration and what did they
765
01:28:27,625 --> 01:28:28,375
There was a moment
766
01:28:28,375 --> 01:28:29,666
where there's a bunch of us
767
01:28:29,666 --> 01:28:30,333
who are kind of like
768
01:28:30,333 --> 01:28:31,500
out competing each other
769
01:28:31,500 --> 01:28:33,958
to how deep can our whale shark dive
770
01:28:34,041 --> 01:28:34,791
according to the
771
01:28:34,791 --> 01:28:36,666
technology we have available.
772
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:39,333
And you know, to be pretty much at 2000,
773
01:28:39,333 --> 01:28:42,041
2000 plus meters, 6,660 feet.
774
01:28:42,458 --> 01:28:43,125
That's crazy.
775
01:28:43,791 --> 01:28:44,291
That's insane.
776
01:28:44,791 --> 01:28:45,708
Crazy. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
777
01:28:46,416 --> 01:28:47,625
So big respect to the
778
01:28:47,625 --> 01:28:49,458
glumping Labrador sharks.
779
01:28:50,083 --> 01:28:50,291
Absolutely.
780
01:28:50,458 --> 01:28:50,875
I mean, it'd be kind
781
01:28:50,875 --> 01:28:51,666
of interesting to see
782
01:28:51,666 --> 01:28:52,875
if you get more data
783
01:28:52,875 --> 01:28:54,250
between the whale sharks,
784
01:28:54,291 --> 01:28:55,291
the tiger sharks, white
785
01:28:55,291 --> 01:28:57,458
sharks, basking sharks,
786
01:28:57,916 --> 01:28:58,500
like see if these things
787
01:28:58,500 --> 01:28:59,458
have different corridors
788
01:28:59,458 --> 01:29:01,208
that they travel when they go travel
789
01:29:01,208 --> 01:29:02,083
across the Atlantic,
790
01:29:02,583 --> 01:29:03,416
whether it's east or
791
01:29:03,416 --> 01:29:04,291
west or north, south.
792
01:29:04,291 --> 01:29:05,458
It'd be interesting if they're using,
793
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:06,750
because I know some of the stuff
794
01:29:06,750 --> 01:29:07,708
they've shown in the Pacific
795
01:29:07,958 --> 01:29:08,500
that where the white
796
01:29:08,500 --> 01:29:09,708
sharks go out to Hawaii,
797
01:29:10,375 --> 01:29:12,666
the salmon sharks will migrate south,
798
01:29:12,666 --> 01:29:14,000
but they don't go quite as far south
799
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:15,916
as where the white sharks congregate.
800
01:29:16,916 --> 01:29:17,625
Maybe it's a pecking,
801
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:18,875
could it be a pecking
802
01:29:18,875 --> 01:29:20,291
order or a temperature issue?
803
01:29:21,416 --> 01:29:22,333
Hard to say, I don't know.
804
01:29:22,666 --> 01:29:23,666
Well, cause they can go a depth,
805
01:29:23,666 --> 01:29:24,791
when they're in the open ocean like that,
806
01:29:24,791 --> 01:29:25,458
they can move to a
807
01:29:25,458 --> 01:29:26,958
depth they can accommodate.
808
01:29:26,958 --> 01:29:27,750
They're getting colder, yeah.
809
01:29:27,833 --> 01:29:28,833
Yeah, and they, so it's
810
01:29:28,833 --> 01:29:29,458
just kind of interesting.
811
01:29:29,666 --> 01:29:30,041
Of course, nobody
812
01:29:30,041 --> 01:29:30,833
knows why the white sharks
813
01:29:30,833 --> 01:29:31,791
are going to Hawaii,
814
01:29:31,791 --> 01:29:32,625
other than it's like from,
815
01:29:32,625 --> 01:29:33,250
you know, whatever.
816
01:29:34,583 --> 01:29:35,666
What do they have in Hawaii?
817
01:29:35,666 --> 01:29:36,416
It's not margaritas, what
818
01:29:36,416 --> 01:29:37,250
do they drink out there?
819
01:29:37,708 --> 01:29:38,500
Mai Tai, Mai Tai's?
820
01:29:38,541 --> 01:29:39,375
Mai Tai's, there you go,
821
01:29:39,375 --> 01:29:40,583
Mai Tai's, there you go, yeah.
822
01:29:41,125 --> 01:29:42,000
Well, we're gonna judge
823
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:43,708
these nodes of connectivity
824
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:45,541
based on the alcoholic drink.
825
01:29:45,916 --> 01:29:46,666
On the alcoholic drink.
826
01:29:47,625 --> 01:29:47,750
(laughing)
827
01:29:48,083 --> 01:29:49,375
That's the title of the paper.
828
01:29:50,166 --> 01:29:51,666
Yeah, that's the margaritas in Mai Tai's.
829
01:29:51,708 --> 01:29:53,125
This'll be a test on what
830
01:29:53,125 --> 01:29:55,291
drink equates to what shark?
831
01:29:55,750 --> 01:29:56,500
Yeah, exactly.
832
01:29:57,666 --> 01:29:58,666
There we go.
833
01:29:59,125 --> 01:30:01,125
From tequila to rum and Coke
834
01:30:01,125 --> 01:30:04,208
to, what do we have in Cuba?
835
01:30:04,625 --> 01:30:05,875
What's in Cuba again?
836
01:30:06,375 --> 01:30:07,625
Well, it's gotta be rum, like--
837
01:30:07,958 --> 01:30:08,750
With mints.
838
01:30:09,750 --> 01:30:10,916
I don't know, I was gonna say,
839
01:30:12,125 --> 01:30:13,333
what's a good margarita shark?
840
01:30:14,791 --> 01:30:15,000
Oh.
841
01:30:17,791 --> 01:30:18,041
Huh.
842
01:30:19,708 --> 01:30:20,000
Bull shark.
843
01:30:20,500 --> 01:30:20,875
A bull?
844
01:30:21,375 --> 01:30:21,583
Yeah.
845
01:30:21,958 --> 01:30:24,333
Yeah. Okay, I'll take that one.
846
01:30:24,333 --> 01:30:25,083
Is there a long, yeah,
847
01:30:25,083 --> 01:30:25,875
there along that coastline.
848
01:30:26,166 --> 01:30:28,166
Yeah, I'd rather be having a margarita
849
01:30:28,166 --> 01:30:28,916
than diving with bull
850
01:30:28,916 --> 01:30:29,791
sharks, so what the heck?
851
01:30:30,541 --> 01:30:31,541
(laughing)
852
01:30:31,666 --> 01:30:32,500
Oh, come on, Dave.
853
01:30:32,500 --> 01:30:33,541
Maybe you need a margarita before you dive
854
01:30:33,541 --> 01:30:35,000
with bull sharks. Come on.
855
01:30:35,041 --> 01:30:36,541
No, it's not my, I just
856
01:30:36,541 --> 01:30:38,000
have my, I don't even--
857
01:30:38,250 --> 01:30:38,750
So we're working, yeah,
858
01:30:38,750 --> 01:30:39,833
we're working with bull sharks
859
01:30:39,833 --> 01:30:41,750
as well throughout the Mesoamerican Reef
860
01:30:41,916 --> 01:30:43,375
and looking at this
861
01:30:43,375 --> 01:30:45,125
shark superhighway corridor,
862
01:30:45,416 --> 01:30:47,291
but especially between Belize and
863
01:30:47,291 --> 01:30:48,625
Mexico's Quintana Roo.
864
01:30:49,125 --> 01:30:52,000
Yes. And trying to quantify the use
865
01:30:52,208 --> 01:30:54,416
and the demography of
866
01:30:54,416 --> 01:30:55,625
the species using it,
867
01:30:55,625 --> 01:30:57,541
also clear popping grounds and
868
01:30:57,541 --> 01:30:59,416
reproductive grounds
869
01:30:59,416 --> 01:31:01,583
and so much more, but yeah,
870
01:31:02,125 --> 01:31:03,958
that will be for another day
871
01:31:03,958 --> 01:31:05,541
because we're still in the-- We'll do
872
01:31:05,541 --> 01:31:05,791
that another episode.
873
01:31:05,791 --> 01:31:06,291
We'll do that another day.
874
01:31:07,083 --> 01:31:07,666
You're gonna have a
875
01:31:07,666 --> 01:31:09,208
regular episode on this.
876
01:31:09,458 --> 01:31:09,916
It's gonna be the
877
01:31:09,916 --> 01:31:11,583
"Mar Alliance" show here.
878
01:31:11,583 --> 01:31:12,916
Have your own boat, love it.
879
01:31:12,916 --> 01:31:13,125
Love it.
880
01:31:13,291 --> 01:31:14,375
They're all in a segment here.
881
01:31:14,875 --> 01:31:15,083
Yeah.
882
01:31:16,083 --> 01:31:17,291
Well, I was just gonna say,
883
01:31:17,333 --> 01:31:19,708
with the tigers and Cape Verde,
884
01:31:19,708 --> 01:31:21,416
I think one of the things that we're
885
01:31:21,416 --> 01:31:22,500
really excited about
886
01:31:22,500 --> 01:31:24,000
is that we've really
887
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:25,083
just scratched the surface
888
01:31:25,291 --> 01:31:27,500
with this species in Cape Verde.
889
01:31:28,166 --> 01:31:29,625
And we're really excited
890
01:31:29,625 --> 01:31:31,875
to see this work expand,
891
01:31:31,875 --> 01:31:34,166
but onto the West African coast as well.
892
01:31:34,708 --> 01:31:35,750
I'm sure that there's
893
01:31:35,750 --> 01:31:36,500
gonna be a lot more.
894
01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:37,583
There are several NGOs
895
01:31:37,583 --> 01:31:39,041
that have cropped up recently
896
01:31:39,291 --> 01:31:41,791
working on sharks and shark fisheries.
897
01:31:42,458 --> 01:31:44,250
So you've seen this expansion of work,
898
01:31:44,250 --> 01:31:45,291
and also in Cape Verde.
899
01:31:45,333 --> 01:31:46,750
When we started, we were the
900
01:31:46,750 --> 01:31:48,208
only ones working on sharks.
901
01:31:50,083 --> 01:31:52,625
You know, all those years ago in a
902
01:31:52,625 --> 01:31:54,500
focused, dedicated way.
903
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:59,000
And I think that more people better, and
904
01:31:59,000 --> 01:32:00,416
if we can actually
905
01:32:00,416 --> 01:32:01,666
reverse some of the declines,
906
01:32:01,916 --> 01:32:02,916
that would be absolutely fantastic.
907
01:32:03,541 --> 01:32:05,875
One thing that I didn't mention is, you
908
01:32:05,875 --> 01:32:06,500
know, you're asking,
909
01:32:06,500 --> 01:32:08,250
why are they in Cape Verde potentially?
910
01:32:08,833 --> 01:32:11,916
Well, one thing that they have,
911
01:32:11,916 --> 01:32:13,250
especially in Boa Vista and Zal,
912
01:32:13,333 --> 01:32:17,333
they are huge rickories on the biggest in
913
01:32:17,333 --> 01:32:20,166
the world for loggerhead turtles.
914
01:32:21,083 --> 01:32:23,083
And boy, tiger sharks love them.
915
01:32:23,083 --> 01:32:24,791
They love those loggerhead turtles.
916
01:32:25,500 --> 01:32:27,541
Exactly. So they're there, especially
917
01:32:27,541 --> 01:32:31,166
during the mating season for the turtles.
918
01:32:31,375 --> 01:32:33,916
And that happens to be when you're seeing
919
01:32:33,916 --> 01:32:35,750
the tigers hanging around as well.
920
01:32:36,208 --> 01:32:36,750
Yeah. Interesting.
921
01:32:37,375 --> 01:32:39,291
What policies would you
922
01:32:39,291 --> 01:32:41,291
like to see enacted, you know,
923
01:32:41,333 --> 01:32:43,916
as this research comes out, especially in
924
01:32:43,916 --> 01:32:44,833
West Africa,
925
01:32:45,083 --> 01:32:46,458
especially in like Cape Verde?
926
01:32:47,625 --> 01:32:48,458
So I think what would
927
01:32:48,458 --> 01:32:51,666
be great, it's hard.
928
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:54,583
It's hard because the policies that we
929
01:32:54,583 --> 01:32:57,083
might have in some parts of the world
930
01:32:57,083 --> 01:32:58,583
where people are not
931
01:32:58,583 --> 01:33:01,500
dependent on shark meat to survive,
932
01:33:02,291 --> 01:33:03,291
is one thing.
933
01:33:03,750 --> 01:33:04,083
Right.
934
01:33:04,291 --> 01:33:07,708
So in West Africa, you have in coastal
935
01:33:07,708 --> 01:33:10,375
communities, the need for protein and
936
01:33:10,375 --> 01:33:14,208
poverty levels that would you give up a
937
01:33:14,208 --> 01:33:15,875
tiger shark if you know you're going to
938
01:33:15,875 --> 01:33:18,041
be feeding 30, 40 people.
939
01:33:18,666 --> 01:33:21,750
So the policies that I would like to see
940
01:33:21,750 --> 01:33:25,875
is if because they have such great
941
01:33:25,875 --> 01:33:27,958
resistance and resilience, especially
942
01:33:27,958 --> 01:33:30,000
when they're caught, is potentially
943
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:31,833
releasing large
944
01:33:31,833 --> 01:33:34,541
females and releasing pups.
945
01:33:34,958 --> 01:33:39,916
They grow pretty quickly. So is it to
946
01:33:39,916 --> 01:33:41,875
that level, do you think like is it to
947
01:33:41,875 --> 01:33:44,208
that level where, you know, the local
948
01:33:44,208 --> 01:33:46,500
people are catching those sharks for
949
01:33:46,500 --> 01:33:47,291
their own consumption?
950
01:33:47,333 --> 01:33:49,291
Is it to the level where it's dangerous,
951
01:33:49,541 --> 01:33:50,375
like they're catching both?
952
01:33:51,291 --> 01:33:52,958
Yeah, that's both. Yeah, there's
953
01:33:52,958 --> 01:33:54,750
captures, there's captures for local
954
01:33:54,750 --> 01:33:57,000
consumption subsistence. And then
955
01:33:57,000 --> 01:34:00,041
there's, and then there's a larger
956
01:34:00,041 --> 01:34:02,958
industrial fishing vessels that are
957
01:34:02,958 --> 01:34:04,875
catching a difference in the policy.
958
01:34:05,208 --> 01:34:06,958
So if it's substance, then it's fine. If
959
01:34:06,958 --> 01:34:09,500
it's, or better, but then if it's more
960
01:34:09,500 --> 01:34:11,000
commercial, then maybe
961
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:11,875
have a little bit more.
962
01:34:12,500 --> 01:34:14,625
Well, you're seeing a lot of seeing some
963
01:34:14,625 --> 01:34:16,291
of the loopholes potentially being able
964
01:34:16,291 --> 01:34:18,416
to be closed up with the BBNJ, which is
965
01:34:18,416 --> 01:34:20,416
biodiversity on national jurisdictions.
966
01:34:21,041 --> 01:34:22,833
So this, you know, this paper on tigers
967
01:34:22,833 --> 01:34:25,583
came out at just the right time, because
968
01:34:25,583 --> 01:34:30,291
BBNJ in in their, in seeking even more
969
01:34:30,291 --> 01:34:33,208
signatories to make it even more robust
970
01:34:33,208 --> 01:34:37,041
as a treaty are also looking for data and
971
01:34:37,041 --> 01:34:40,666
case studies that demonstrate the use of
972
01:34:40,666 --> 01:34:46,166
these kind of these areas that belong to
973
01:34:46,166 --> 01:34:48,583
everybody and and nobody all at the same
974
01:34:48,583 --> 01:34:51,958
time in order to be able to try and
975
01:34:51,958 --> 01:34:54,000
formulate either moving
976
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:55,291
protected areas, where
977
01:34:55,333 --> 01:34:56,750
there are going to be rules and
978
01:34:56,750 --> 01:34:59,083
regulations against fishing these kinds
979
01:34:59,083 --> 01:35:02,375
of these highly migratory species or
980
01:35:02,375 --> 01:35:06,000
more. So we're really grateful to tiger
981
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:09,333
shark kalema for for highlighting the use
982
01:35:09,333 --> 01:35:12,708
of entire oceanic basins and and
983
01:35:12,708 --> 01:35:16,000
supporting the the BBNJ treaty.
984
01:35:16,291 --> 01:35:19,000
Absolutely. Yeah. So I think there's a
985
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,458
lot of things on the on the horizon that
986
01:35:21,458 --> 01:35:23,375
will be coming out. I think there's a
987
01:35:23,375 --> 01:35:26,416
long way to go, unfortunately, because
988
01:35:26,416 --> 01:35:29,041
who's going to patrol that who's going to
989
01:35:29,041 --> 01:35:31,750
so many questions to ask so many
990
01:35:31,750 --> 01:35:34,666
questions and more. So, yeah, but maybe
991
01:35:34,666 --> 01:35:36,291
she should become a bit of an icon for
992
01:35:36,291 --> 01:35:38,291
that for the for the BBNJ, right?
993
01:35:38,291 --> 01:35:40,916
Absolutely. She could be one of one of
994
01:35:40,916 --> 01:35:44,500
their flagship species and animals. Yep.
995
01:35:44,500 --> 01:35:45,625
There you go. That'd be awesome. That'd
996
01:35:45,625 --> 01:35:47,708
be great. Well, well, Rachel, thanks so
997
01:35:47,708 --> 01:35:49,416
much for coming on and sharing the story
998
01:35:49,416 --> 01:35:51,416
about the tiger sharks. We're going to be
999
01:35:51,416 --> 01:35:53,166
back with another episode here talking
1000
01:35:53,166 --> 01:35:56,333
about your next big discovery here and
1001
01:35:56,333 --> 01:35:58,875
we'll we'll share that when you come back
1002
01:35:58,875 --> 01:36:00,958
on here in the next episode. So, okay.
1003
01:36:01,166 --> 01:36:02,833
Absolutely. Thank you so much. We
1004
01:36:02,833 --> 01:36:04,083
appreciate it. Thank you so much. And
1005
01:36:04,083 --> 01:36:05,250
thank you for having me. That was
1006
01:36:05,250 --> 01:36:06,541
brilliant. Of course, you bet.
1007
01:36:09,125 --> 01:36:10,375
Thank you, Rachel, for joining us on
1008
01:36:10,375 --> 01:36:11,875
today's episode of the Beyond Jaws
1009
01:36:11,875 --> 01:36:14,541
podcast. Dave, what an exciting
1010
01:36:14,541 --> 01:36:17,416
discovery. Like this doesn't happen every
1011
01:36:17,416 --> 01:36:19,416
day where you get this type of discovery
1012
01:36:19,416 --> 01:36:23,083
of the longest transatlantic 18,000
1013
01:36:23,083 --> 01:36:25,750
kilometers to Brazil and back from Cape
1014
01:36:25,750 --> 01:36:30,166
Verde. Phenomenal type of story and and
1015
01:36:30,166 --> 01:36:32,291
from from an organization like Mara
1016
01:36:32,291 --> 01:36:34,000
Alliance to be able to publish this with
1017
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:36,333
their collaborators. This is huge. This
1018
01:36:36,333 --> 01:36:37,291
is such a big thing for them.
1019
01:36:37,291 --> 01:36:39,583
Oh, yeah. This is a huge. I think it's a
1020
01:36:39,583 --> 01:36:41,416
huge story and obviously got a lot. It
1021
01:36:41,416 --> 01:36:42,708
did get a lot of media attention when it
1022
01:36:42,708 --> 01:36:45,958
first came out here a few weeks ago. And
1023
01:36:45,958 --> 01:36:48,166
yeah, I mean, you're like this kind of
1024
01:36:48,166 --> 01:36:50,000
said in the intro, you suddenly realize
1025
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:52,166
these these large predators have huge
1026
01:36:52,166 --> 01:36:54,250
territories that they cover and you know
1027
01:36:54,250 --> 01:36:55,500
where they're going to be at certain
1028
01:36:55,500 --> 01:36:58,125
times of the year and and and why they're
1029
01:36:58,125 --> 01:36:59,708
going there, why they're particular this
1030
01:36:59,708 --> 01:37:01,666
migratory route. That's fast. That's
1031
01:37:01,666 --> 01:37:02,875
another whole series of
1032
01:37:02,875 --> 01:37:04,291
questions you can ask.
1033
01:37:04,500 --> 01:37:06,125
Why this? Why? Why? Why do they know to
1034
01:37:06,125 --> 01:37:08,125
go from here to there on that route? But
1035
01:37:08,125 --> 01:37:09,916
but it's fascinating that they cover such
1036
01:37:09,916 --> 01:37:12,250
an immense area and they turn up these
1037
01:37:12,250 --> 01:37:14,583
different different locations. Um then
1038
01:37:14,583 --> 01:37:15,500
you can start seeing what are they
1039
01:37:15,500 --> 01:37:17,291
feeding on? You know, is there some of
1040
01:37:17,291 --> 01:37:19,500
these areas that they for a good are they
1041
01:37:19,500 --> 01:37:23,916
for uh uh mating purposes for birthing or
1042
01:37:23,916 --> 01:37:26,000
the nursery areas? Uh you can start to
1043
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:28,666
you get kind of peel the the curtain back
1044
01:37:28,666 --> 01:37:30,250
a little bit on things like tiger sharks
1045
01:37:30,250 --> 01:37:32,083
because otherwise you just know they
1046
01:37:32,083 --> 01:37:33,291
certain times of the year they'll show up in this one location.
1047
01:37:33,291 --> 01:37:36,250
But now it's kind of another little piece
1048
01:37:36,250 --> 01:37:38,500
of the puzzle um as to where these things
1049
01:37:38,500 --> 01:37:41,125
go. Yeah. And um you know, as we know too
1050
01:37:41,125 --> 01:37:43,416
with a lot of these species, they tend to
1051
01:37:43,416 --> 01:37:46,000
segareat by size and by sex. So the
1052
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:47,791
immature ones may go one place. These are
1053
01:37:47,791 --> 01:37:49,958
like an adult female like this may go a
1054
01:37:49,958 --> 01:37:52,500
different location. Um you know, males
1055
01:37:52,500 --> 01:37:53,916
may turn out somewhere but you know, at
1056
01:37:53,916 --> 01:37:55,500
some point they gotta get together and
1057
01:37:55,500 --> 01:37:58,166
make little babies little baby tiger
1058
01:37:58,166 --> 01:38:00,958
sharks show up. Yeah, no for sure. Well,
1059
01:38:00,958 --> 01:38:02,625
I mean, it just goes it goes to show that
1060
01:38:02,625 --> 01:38:03,291
we we still have a lot of species that are
1061
01:38:03,291 --> 01:38:04,250
there. We still have so much to discover.
1062
01:38:04,250 --> 01:38:06,250
I mean, even from the beginning of this
1063
01:38:06,250 --> 01:38:08,000
study, which wasn't a tiger shark
1064
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:10,583
migration study, it was let's find out as
1065
01:38:10,583 --> 01:38:12,458
much as we can about the sharks in Cape
1066
01:38:12,458 --> 01:38:14,916
Verde in that archipelago and then they
1067
01:38:14,916 --> 01:38:17,166
found so much diversity in there. It's
1068
01:38:17,166 --> 01:38:18,875
it's just goes to show we just we there's
1069
01:38:18,875 --> 01:38:21,000
so much more we need to find out about
1070
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,791
sharks and their diversity and then we we
1071
01:38:23,791 --> 01:38:24,833
can discover more about their
1072
01:38:24,833 --> 01:38:26,333
conservation. We can you know, like if
1073
01:38:26,333 --> 01:38:27,916
you think about a tiger shark that
1074
01:38:27,916 --> 01:38:29,916
travels there to Brazil and back from
1075
01:38:29,916 --> 01:38:33,291
Cape Verde, you look at how like what they're doing. And then you kind of
1076
01:38:33,291 --> 01:38:34,875
look at where do they stop on the way?
1077
01:38:35,500 --> 01:38:37,416
Are they stopping on the way? You know,
1078
01:38:37,416 --> 01:38:39,416
what are they doing on the way there? Can
1079
01:38:39,416 --> 01:38:41,708
we put you know, now with the high seas
1080
01:38:41,708 --> 01:38:43,958
tree, can we put marine protected areas
1081
01:38:43,958 --> 01:38:45,791
in certain spots where they might
1082
01:38:45,791 --> 01:38:47,791
aggregate with other animals? You know,
1083
01:38:47,791 --> 01:38:50,041
we're looking at distinctive areas where
1084
01:38:50,041 --> 01:38:53,500
it might attract sharks on their way. It
1085
01:38:53,500 --> 01:38:54,916
could be an upwelling that we didn't know
1086
01:38:54,916 --> 01:38:56,125
about. It could be anything.
1087
01:38:56,708 --> 01:38:58,208
Um maybe even a they're in a
1088
01:39:03,416 --> 01:39:03,791
far south of the coast and have the
1089
01:39:03,791 --> 01:39:06,000
energy to do that migration, right?
1090
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:07,458
There's so many questions after that. Oh
1091
01:39:07,458 --> 01:39:09,708
yeah. Again, this is just one data point.
1092
01:39:09,708 --> 01:39:11,000
You know, you might tag another one and
1093
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:13,125
it might go to it might go to it might go
1094
01:39:13,125 --> 01:39:15,000
to Canada for all we know. Who knows?
1095
01:39:33,291 --> 01:39:34,833
across these ocean basins,
1096
01:39:34,833 --> 01:39:36,333
they're probably traveling
1097
01:39:36,333 --> 01:39:37,208
at a depth where they
1098
01:39:37,208 --> 01:39:38,375
can't, they're not being caught,
1099
01:39:38,375 --> 01:39:39,375
but it's where they turn up.
1100
01:39:39,666 --> 01:39:40,541
Right. That's where you probably,
1101
01:39:40,750 --> 01:39:41,375
because tire sharks
1102
01:39:41,375 --> 01:39:42,500
are known to be coastal,
1103
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:44,291
as well as oceanic,
1104
01:39:44,291 --> 01:39:45,083
but it's when they get
1105
01:39:45,083 --> 01:39:45,958
into the coastal areas
1106
01:39:45,958 --> 01:39:47,416
that their vulnerability
1107
01:39:47,583 --> 01:39:50,291
in terms of fishing comes into play.
1108
01:39:50,833 --> 01:39:51,458
No, absolutely.
1109
01:39:51,500 --> 01:39:52,083
I mean, you know,
1110
01:39:52,083 --> 01:39:53,250
we've seen, you talk about,
1111
01:39:53,250 --> 01:39:54,500
you know, where sharks will go.
1112
01:39:54,500 --> 01:39:55,750
I mean, we've seen with
1113
01:39:55,750 --> 01:39:56,833
O-Search and the sharks
1114
01:39:56,833 --> 01:39:58,166
that they tag, you know,
1115
01:39:58,166 --> 01:39:59,833
some great whites will,
1116
01:39:59,833 --> 01:40:00,416
you know, do their
1117
01:40:00,416 --> 01:40:01,625
regular pattern in the Atlantic
1118
01:40:01,833 --> 01:40:03,833
going from, what is
1119
01:40:03,833 --> 01:40:06,708
it, up in, what's the,
1120
01:40:07,166 --> 01:40:08,000
loss of words, this is the
1121
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:09,541
island up in Martha's Vineyard.
1122
01:40:10,708 --> 01:40:11,666
Or Martha's Vineyard.
1123
01:40:11,708 --> 01:40:12,416
It's Martha's Vineyard.
1124
01:40:13,208 --> 01:40:13,416
(laughs) Yes.
1125
01:40:14,500 --> 01:40:14,666
Yeah.
1126
01:40:14,875 --> 01:40:15,541
Is it Cape something?
1127
01:40:15,791 --> 01:40:16,500
Is it not Cape something?
1128
01:40:18,291 --> 01:40:18,875
It doesn't matter.
1129
01:40:19,250 --> 01:40:20,125
Martha's Vineyard, and
1130
01:40:20,125 --> 01:40:21,083
they go down to Jacksonville,
1131
01:40:21,333 --> 01:40:22,208
like in the winters.
1132
01:40:22,625 --> 01:40:22,833
Right.
1133
01:40:23,500 --> 01:40:24,666
But, and then every once in a while,
1134
01:40:24,666 --> 01:40:25,833
you'll see one go out to the
1135
01:40:25,833 --> 01:40:27,583
Mid-Atlantic, like, rich,
1136
01:40:27,958 --> 01:40:30,125
you know, and so you're just like, okay,
1137
01:40:30,166 --> 01:40:31,333
where did that one go?
1138
01:40:31,333 --> 01:40:32,291
And why did it go there?
1139
01:40:32,291 --> 01:40:32,791
Did it get lost?
1140
01:40:33,041 --> 01:40:34,000
Like, is it there for a reason?
1141
01:40:34,916 --> 01:40:36,166
So yeah, there's a lot of
1142
01:40:36,166 --> 01:40:37,125
stuff that we need to know.
1143
01:40:37,125 --> 01:40:37,958
And maybe that just kind
1144
01:40:37,958 --> 01:40:39,458
of introduces another study
1145
01:40:39,458 --> 01:40:41,375
where we start looking at
1146
01:40:41,375 --> 01:40:42,833
tiger sharks in the Cape Verde area
1147
01:40:43,000 --> 01:40:44,333
or even the Brazil area
1148
01:40:44,333 --> 01:40:45,791
to start tagging them more,
1149
01:40:46,500 --> 01:40:47,500
just to find out where they're going
1150
01:40:47,500 --> 01:40:48,791
and what that means for
1151
01:40:48,791 --> 01:40:49,916
conservation purposes.
1152
01:40:50,166 --> 01:40:51,875
We know sharks are the
1153
01:40:51,875 --> 01:40:52,666
top of the food chain
1154
01:40:52,666 --> 01:40:53,750
in many of these ecosystems
1155
01:40:53,750 --> 01:40:55,625
and they play a very important role.
1156
01:40:55,916 --> 01:40:57,416
So I would hate to see
1157
01:40:57,416 --> 01:40:58,666
them get caught, you know,
1158
01:40:58,666 --> 01:40:59,833
on the way over.
1159
01:41:21,916 --> 01:41:22,250
Yeah. And then you're like, okay,
1160
01:41:23,250 --> 01:41:24,833
these tiger sharks are going to show up
1161
01:41:24,833 --> 01:41:26,958
in an approximate this location in Brazil
1162
01:41:26,958 --> 01:41:27,375
at this time of year.
1163
01:41:27,916 --> 01:41:29,791
That's where you can
1164
01:41:29,791 --> 01:41:31,458
really look to do something.
1165
01:41:31,791 --> 01:41:33,208
I just think it's going to be really
1166
01:41:33,208 --> 01:41:36,458
tough to try to put together some policy
1167
01:41:36,458 --> 01:41:38,791
for when they're transiting across there.
1168
01:41:38,916 --> 01:41:39,291
Yeah.
1169
01:41:39,291 --> 01:41:41,208
But if you know they're going to be in
1170
01:41:41,208 --> 01:41:43,000
this location at this time of the year,
1171
01:41:43,333 --> 01:41:44,416
then you can do something.
1172
01:41:44,416 --> 01:41:45,500
Because then you're more dealing with,
1173
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:49,333
you're within national boundaries with
1174
01:41:49,333 --> 01:41:52,500
economic occlusive zones.
1175
01:41:52,750 --> 01:41:53,500
Yeah, absolutely.
1176
01:41:53,500 --> 01:41:55,625
So you can do something there, I think.
1177
01:41:55,625 --> 01:41:56,833
But it's fascinating study.
1178
01:41:56,833 --> 01:41:57,875
I'm really glad we had
1179
01:41:57,875 --> 01:41:59,583
Rachel on to talk about this.
1180
01:41:59,833 --> 01:42:01,125
And as you mentioned, we're going to get
1181
01:42:01,125 --> 01:42:02,208
a couple episodes up here.
1182
01:42:02,208 --> 01:42:03,916
We're going to have her on back on for
1183
01:42:03,916 --> 01:42:06,083
another exciting talk about
1184
01:42:06,625 --> 01:42:08,875
Sawfish, which I'm really, that was a
1185
01:42:08,875 --> 01:42:10,458
bonus for us talking to her.
1186
01:42:10,458 --> 01:42:11,541
This one, we found out like, oh, there's
1187
01:42:11,541 --> 01:42:12,208
this other study we
1188
01:42:12,208 --> 01:42:13,500
need to have her on for.
1189
01:42:13,875 --> 01:42:14,875
So anyway, stay tuned.
1190
01:42:15,208 --> 01:42:18,000
I have to say when we first brought
1191
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:20,166
Rachel on our first
1192
01:42:20,166 --> 01:42:21,666
attempt to do the recording,
1193
01:42:22,125 --> 01:42:23,750
we ended up talking so much, just about
1194
01:42:23,750 --> 01:42:25,208
everything that we spent
1195
01:42:25,208 --> 01:42:26,791
about probably two hours talking.
1196
01:42:26,833 --> 01:42:28,250
And never recording an episode.
1197
01:42:28,250 --> 01:42:28,875
And she's like, hey, can
1198
01:42:28,875 --> 01:42:29,916
we do this another time?
1199
01:42:29,916 --> 01:42:30,541
Cause I've read it at a
1200
01:42:30,541 --> 01:42:31,708
time where like, yeah, no, no.
1201
01:42:31,708 --> 01:42:33,208
So we, and then we brought it back.
1202
01:42:33,208 --> 01:42:33,708
And then she's like, we
1203
01:42:33,708 --> 01:42:34,416
could talk about this.
1204
01:42:34,416 --> 01:42:35,333
Then we have this other study.
1205
01:42:35,333 --> 01:42:35,791
Then we have this other study.
1206
01:42:35,791 --> 01:42:36,750
It's like, let's just
1207
01:42:36,750 --> 01:42:37,791
bring it on for studies.
1208
01:42:37,791 --> 01:42:40,291
And this is just like, I want people, if
1209
01:42:40,291 --> 01:42:41,583
you've been listening for this long,
1210
01:42:41,583 --> 01:42:43,416
I want people to know if you're in shark
1211
01:42:43,416 --> 01:42:45,041
research or shark science or shark
1212
01:42:45,125 --> 01:42:46,791
conservation and you have a story you
1213
01:42:46,791 --> 01:42:48,541
want to talk about, you know,
1214
01:42:48,541 --> 01:42:50,750
get ahold of Dave and I Dave, if people
1215
01:42:50,750 --> 01:42:51,416
want to get ahold of
1216
01:42:51,416 --> 01:42:52,208
you, where will they go?
1217
01:42:53,083 --> 01:42:56,750
Go to a law shark guy on Instagram or
1218
01:42:56,750 --> 01:42:58,125
Facebook law sharks.
1219
01:42:58,666 --> 01:43:01,375
And then the best ways, or if you get
1220
01:43:01,375 --> 01:43:02,000
ahold of me through the
1221
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:03,125
university Pacific shark
1222
01:43:03,125 --> 01:43:04,000
research center at San
1223
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:04,916
Jose state university.
1224
01:43:05,250 --> 01:43:06,125
Yeah, for sure.
1225
01:43:06,125 --> 01:43:07,583
And then if you want to get ahold of me,
1226
01:43:07,916 --> 01:43:08,916
just, well, if you want
1227
01:43:08,916 --> 01:43:09,875
to contact both of us,
1228
01:43:09,875 --> 01:43:12,375
you can do that at beyond just pod on
1229
01:43:12,375 --> 01:43:13,791
Instagram, but if
1230
01:43:13,791 --> 01:43:14,625
people want to get ahold
1231
01:43:14,625 --> 01:43:16,458
of us to get more content out and they
1232
01:43:16,458 --> 01:43:17,250
want to, they want to
1233
01:43:17,250 --> 01:43:18,041
talk about their research
1234
01:43:18,166 --> 01:43:20,250
project, as long as it has to do with
1235
01:43:20,250 --> 01:43:23,083
sharks or around that topic, feel free.
1236
01:43:23,083 --> 01:43:24,541
We can't guarantee you'll be on, but we'd
1237
01:43:24,541 --> 01:43:25,458
love to hear from you
1238
01:43:25,458 --> 01:43:26,583
and see what you're up to.
1239
01:43:26,583 --> 01:43:28,083
But thank you so much, Dave.
1240
01:43:28,375 --> 01:43:30,458
And thank you so much, Rachel, for, for
1241
01:43:30,458 --> 01:43:31,666
sharing that story with us.
1242
01:43:31,666 --> 01:43:32,333
A great study.
1243
01:43:32,875 --> 01:43:34,041
And we look forward to
1244
01:43:34,041 --> 01:43:35,458
hearing from all of you next time.
1245
01:43:35,458 --> 01:43:36,666
Thank you so much for joining us on the
1246
01:43:36,666 --> 01:43:37,583
Beyond Jaws podcast from
1247
01:43:37,583 --> 01:43:39,125
Dave and I have a great day.
1248
01:43:39,125 --> 01:43:39,666
We'll talk to you next
1249
01:43:39,666 --> 01:43:40,875
time and happy conservation.
