She Moved Across the World to Study Devil Rays… Here’s Why It Matters

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On today's episode of

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the Beyond Jaws podcast,

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we have Marta Palacios,

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who's working in La Paz,

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Mexico with Devil Ray's.

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We're gonna talk about Devil Ray's,

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we're gonna talk about her career,

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how she got to where she is from Spain,

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all the way over to

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Mexico to work on something

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that she went diving

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with when she was younger,

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and she realized how much she fell in

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love with Moby Lids.

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We're gonna talk all

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about that on today's episode

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of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back

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to another exciting episode

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of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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I'm your co-host Andrew

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Lewin here with my co-host,

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Dr. David Ebert.

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Dave, are you ready to

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talk about some devil rays?

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Oh, absolutely.

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I'm pretty psyched up about this

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interview here today.

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And this is just people know,

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this is the first of several episodes

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we're gonna be having

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over the next couple months

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of some of the keynote speakers

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from the upcoming Sharks

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International Conference.

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And several of the

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speakers have already been

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on the podcast before, but Marta has it.

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And there's a few others that have not

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been on the podcast.

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And they're gonna be on the pod,

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we'll be featuring them

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and some of the research they're doing.

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And she's a, certainly I've characterized

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an early career

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researcher just getting started.

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And she worked, she were found, you know,

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she found a little

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known species of devil ray

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that the monks devil ray,

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and she got onto it,

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has become like a world

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expert on those things now.

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So I'm really, really looking

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forward to hearing her story

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and learn and find out

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more about her journey.

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Absolutely.

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Let's get into the

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interview with Marta and joy.

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And we'll talk to you after.

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Hey, Marta, welcome to

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the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Are you ready to talk

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about Mobile Arrays?

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Good show.

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Right on. I love it.

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I love it.

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Well, welcome everyone to

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another Beyond Jaws podcast.

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We have a special guest today.

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We have Dr. Marta

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Palacios from La Paz Baja,

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California, Mexico.

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And she's one of the keynote speakers

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at this year's Sharks International.

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Marta is a Marine

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Biologist and co-founder

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of the Mobile Conservation Project,

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specializing in the

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ecology, conservation,

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and fisheries interaction of Mobile Rays

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in Mexican Pacific waters.

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She's also currently

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involved with the important Shark

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and Rays areas project supporting the

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global identification

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of critical habitats for chondricthians.

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She's a collaborator

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with the Manta Trust,

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where Marta led a global

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assessment of the trade

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in Mobile and Meat and Gill Plates,

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contributing to the

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proposal to uplift Mobile

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as to CITES Appendix One.

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Marta is a grantee of the Explorers Club,

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the Shark Conservation Fund,

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the Walter Monk Foundation,

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and she's received numerous

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awards and other fellowships.

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Too many to go into here.

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I'll spend 30 minutes doing that.

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Very well accomplished.

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She has extensive

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experience working with artisanal

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fisheries, NGOs and

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government agencies to bridge science

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and policy.

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Her works contributed to the

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identification of critical

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habitats for Mobulids, as well as the

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development of management

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plans for Mexico.

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She holds a BSC and MSC in

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biology from the autonomous

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University of Madrid and the

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University of Laguna, Spain.

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She also has an MSC in

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marine and fisheries resource

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management from Sisamar in Mexico.

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And she also has her PhD from Sisamar in

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collaboration with the

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University of California, Santa Cruz.

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And she's they said

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she's currently the director,

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co-founder of the

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Mobula Conservation Project.

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Her bridge is really her passion project,

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but she's also a research

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assistant for the ISRA program.

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And Marta, welcome to the program.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for having me.

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Yeah.

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So we'll get started.

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We'll ask you a first question.

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We always like to ask our guests.

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How did you get interested in

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sharks and Mobulids and marine

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science in general?

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So Mobulas and sharks, I

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would say by pure luck,

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like I was doing an internship in Bali.

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I got a grant from Spain to go in a

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professional internship in a

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dive center in Bali.

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So we were diving in New Sape Nida and

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this place that is called

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Manta Point.

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And we were there.

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And one day there were like 13 mantas

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just swimming above the

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cleaning station.

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And I thought, what are these animals?

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What are they doing here?

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And since then I got

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like into into the mantras.

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But I have to say that before going like

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into mantas and sharks, I mess

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around with other animals just to to see

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if I was not more interested,

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like in dolphins, in

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penguins and or else.

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Yeah, I was not never

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like, oh, this is my passion.

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No, I was I always love

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nature and being in the sea.

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So I experienced a bit of.

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Other things and then decided, was it

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more through diving?

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Was it more like or or was it actually

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like science at that point?

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At that point, I was like doing an

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internship with the university team.

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So I was having like my research project,

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but I was also getting my

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master's.

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Gotcha.

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But yeah, it was very basic science.

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Yeah.

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And then when I finished university, I

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yeah, I got distracted and

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went in in other directions

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a little bit to experiment.

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I'm in the middle of it.

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But yeah, I ended up with I would say I

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will start with mantas in

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in 2016.

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OK.

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OK.

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Yes.

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Cool.

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So did you grow up in Spain?

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Did you grow up near near the ocean in

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Spain near the med or no,

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I grew up in Spain and my part of my

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family lives in Asturias,

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which is on the North Coast of Spain.

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So it's very like coal and rough seas.

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And what we were

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doing mainly was surfing.

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So I think surfing was what got me into

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my love for the ocean because we were

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spending many, many hours in the water

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just waiting for the waves.

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And after that, I knew I always knew I

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wanted to study biology.

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Right.

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Because half of my family, my aunts are

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all biologists and they study like

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wolves, bears and other animals in Spain.

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So nature, it's been

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always part of my life.

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OK.

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So what brought you

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all the way to Mexico?

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I was in the Galap.

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I was actually before here.

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And well, I I did one semester in Mexico

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many years ago, like in 2014.

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And then went to New

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Zealand, to Brazil, Ecuador.

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And when I was in Ecuador, I was doing an

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internship with Manta Trust at the

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Charles Darwin Foundation.

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And there I met Thomas Peschek because he

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was there to tag some Manta Rays.

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So we were talking about different

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projects or different things that could

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be done with mobulas,

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especially I was trying to focus more on

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on devil rays, like the smaller species,

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because at that time I thought like

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mantas were like

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everybody was doing mantas.

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So I was more interested in some of the

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in the movelas. Yeah.

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Yeah. And the devil rays that that were

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more like unknown. Interesting.

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So he told me about this place in a

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spirit of Santo, which is a marine

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protected area here in in California, so

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that there's like a dive site where you

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can dive at night with

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Munchy on mobile and can.

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So they got attracted to the light and

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then you can spend like a few hours with

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with the mobulas swimming around.

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So he told me it's a good place to start

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because you already know where is the

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aggregation. Maybe you can go there and

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tag some animals and see

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what are they doing there.

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So I talked with guy guy, Steven, from

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the mantet rest. And he was like, Yeah,

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it's a great idea. If you go there, we

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will support you in

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the way that they can.

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So I came straight from the Galapagos

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back to Barra in 2016 to start the

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project. And since

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then, I'm trapped here.

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Oh, that's true.

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And so you know, you when you did your

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start doing your your system are where

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you at in the pause or up

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in Ensenada in the past.

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In the past. Yeah. Okay. She's in my

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knees. It's in the past. Okay. Okay. And

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then and then who's your main advisor

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down there? Is it Felipe?

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Is yeah, Felipe. I'll ban and Rogelio.

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When Sally's arm. So they were both

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helping me at the beginning because at

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the beginning, it was kind of a struggle

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because I came here to study a species

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that nobody was doing much.

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And I didn't have any budget. So

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everybody was like, Yeah, yeah, it's a

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01:09:38,666 --> 01:09:40,333
great project. But we don't have money

283
01:09:40,333 --> 01:09:44,666
for you. So so that's when I met Don

284
01:09:44,666 --> 01:09:47,750
Crow. Actually, Felipe put me in contact

285
01:09:47,750 --> 01:09:51,541
with Don Crow. And he was coming every

286
01:09:51,541 --> 01:09:53,750
summer to El Pardito, which

287
01:09:53,750 --> 01:09:56,291
is a small island of fishers.

288
01:09:57,333 --> 01:10:00,625
So he's been coming down here for the

289
01:10:00,625 --> 01:10:04,708
past 30 years. So Felipe sent me to the

290
01:10:04,708 --> 01:10:07,666
island with Don Crow. And Don Crow didn't

291
01:10:07,666 --> 01:10:10,291
have an option. He had to took me in.

292
01:10:10,375 --> 01:10:16,666
And I was very lucky because he was very

293
01:10:16,666 --> 01:10:19,916
nice. And we talked a lot about the

294
01:10:19,916 --> 01:10:22,958
project that I wanted to do. And of

295
01:10:22,958 --> 01:10:28,083
course, as I always tell him that he

296
01:10:28,083 --> 01:10:30,833
always destroys all the projects like

297
01:10:30,833 --> 01:10:34,041
when you have an idea to just pitch it to

298
01:10:34,041 --> 01:10:35,291
him and he will destroy it.

299
01:10:35,333 --> 01:10:39,083
Which I think is very good because it

300
01:10:39,083 --> 01:10:43,375
actually makes you think and rethink how

301
01:10:43,375 --> 01:10:46,291
I'm going to answer these questions, why

302
01:10:46,291 --> 01:10:49,708
these questions are important. Is there

303
01:10:49,708 --> 01:10:52,291
any other questions that I can maybe ask?

304
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:58,166
So he helped me a lot to establish like

305
01:10:58,166 --> 01:11:02,291
the hypothesis and how to to do the

306
01:11:02,291 --> 01:11:08,583
sampling. But the best thing is that he

307
01:11:08,583 --> 01:11:12,666
introduced me to the fishers that live in

308
01:11:12,666 --> 01:11:16,583
El Pardito. So these guys, they've been

309
01:11:16,583 --> 01:11:19,750
fishing for mobile arrays since they were

310
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:21,291
kids because their father was

311
01:11:21,333 --> 01:11:25,500
helping Don Crow to tag the animals

312
01:11:25,500 --> 01:11:29,250
there. So they're kids that were now like

313
01:11:29,250 --> 01:11:33,583
35, 40 years. They were experts in

314
01:11:33,583 --> 01:11:36,916
catching mobulas without killing them

315
01:11:36,916 --> 01:11:38,791
because that was because they learned

316
01:11:38,791 --> 01:11:43,500
about their lives. Yeah. Yes. So it was

317
01:11:43,500 --> 01:11:44,791
perfect because they are

318
01:11:44,791 --> 01:11:47,000
also super, super nice people.

319
01:11:47,333 --> 01:11:49,916
We got along very well since the

320
01:11:49,916 --> 01:11:52,375
beginning and we became really good

321
01:11:52,375 --> 01:11:56,416
friends. So after that, like I had the

322
01:11:56,416 --> 01:11:58,791
team, I have the questions, but I didn't

323
01:11:58,791 --> 01:12:03,000
have the money. So after that, it came

324
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:06,291
all the struggle to find money to just

325
01:12:06,291 --> 01:12:09,166
for a couple of acoustic receivers and a

326
01:12:09,166 --> 01:12:11,916
couple of tags and just to pay the salary

327
01:12:11,916 --> 01:12:13,208
to the fishers to go

328
01:12:13,208 --> 01:12:14,291
with me to the island.

329
01:12:14,333 --> 01:12:18,791
So yeah, luckily we we managed to get

330
01:12:18,791 --> 01:12:21,166
some funding from the Mentor Bay Aquarium

331
01:12:21,166 --> 01:12:26,458
that they've been supporting a this this

332
01:12:26,458 --> 01:12:28,666
work in the Gulf of California for the

333
01:12:28,666 --> 01:12:32,958
past years. So yeah, Diego Don Crow gave

334
01:12:32,958 --> 01:12:35,958
me some acoustic tags and he was like,

335
01:12:35,958 --> 01:12:36,875
good luck. I don't

336
01:12:36,875 --> 01:12:37,291
think it's going to work.

337
01:12:37,333 --> 01:12:46,166
But yeah, I know the first time we went

338
01:12:46,166 --> 01:12:48,500
to the to the island with the fishers, I

339
01:12:48,500 --> 01:12:51,291
was with my friend, Abel Trejo, who is

340
01:12:51,291 --> 01:12:54,375
also a shark researcher. And actually,

341
01:12:54,375 --> 01:12:57,250
he's like the mastermind from where I

342
01:12:57,250 --> 01:13:01,291
learned everything. And so he was coming

343
01:13:01,291 --> 01:13:03,541
with me and we were camping on the island

344
01:13:03,541 --> 01:13:06,291
on tents and with the fishers and dogs.

345
01:13:06,333 --> 01:13:13,958
And we were just looking for the mobulans

346
01:13:13,958 --> 01:13:17,500
and then trying to capture them. And we

347
01:13:17,500 --> 01:13:20,291
realized that we were capturing very,

348
01:13:20,291 --> 01:13:24,750
very small individuals. So we managed to

349
01:13:24,750 --> 01:13:28,208
tag neonates and one of the gear mobile

350
01:13:28,208 --> 01:13:30,541
and which was kind of rare.

351
01:13:33,333 --> 01:13:39,041
And we started to do the same for a year

352
01:13:39,041 --> 01:13:43,000
and a half. So at the end of the project,

353
01:13:43,500 --> 01:13:47,000
we came out with the result that this

354
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:50,375
area is a nursery area for mobile and can

355
01:13:50,375 --> 01:13:52,208
in the Gulf of

356
01:13:52,208 --> 01:13:55,291
California. So yeah, it's very nice.

357
01:13:56,333 --> 01:13:59,291
The mobility of Makiata, there's not

358
01:13:59,291 --> 01:14:01,916
there's it's one of the it's kind of a

359
01:14:01,916 --> 01:14:04,000
regional endemic species. It only occurs

360
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:07,041
really in the eastern Pacific. And it's

361
01:14:07,041 --> 01:14:09,041
it's it's it's it's the smallest of the

362
01:14:09,041 --> 01:14:13,208
mobile is devil rays or is it is? Yeah,

363
01:14:13,208 --> 01:14:15,750
it's the smallest one. And it's only

364
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:18,625
found from the Gulf of California to the

365
01:14:18,625 --> 01:14:19,291
north coast of Peru.

366
01:14:19,333 --> 01:14:22,833
Okay. So yeah, it's endemic to the

367
01:14:22,833 --> 01:14:24,833
Eastern tropical Pacific. And at that

368
01:14:24,833 --> 01:14:29,000
time, we didn't know we didn't know much

369
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,458
of the species more than they were very

370
01:14:32,458 --> 01:14:34,500
abundant in especially in the Gulf of

371
01:14:34,500 --> 01:14:36,166
California because you could see them

372
01:14:36,166 --> 01:14:41,125
jumping all over. But nobody knew what

373
01:14:41,125 --> 01:14:45,791
were they doing there and what was like

374
01:14:45,791 --> 01:14:47,541
kind of the fundamentals of

375
01:14:47,541 --> 01:14:49,000
the ecology of the species.

376
01:14:49,750 --> 01:14:52,416
So yeah, it was a surprise that we were

377
01:14:52,416 --> 01:14:55,416
capturing this tiny, tiny individuals.

378
01:14:56,416 --> 01:15:02,125
And then we developed the project from

379
01:15:02,125 --> 01:15:04,500
there, not like, okay, now we found a

380
01:15:04,500 --> 01:15:08,541
nursery area. Where are the adults? And

381
01:15:08,541 --> 01:15:12,291
what are they doing? And so after that,

382
01:15:12,291 --> 01:15:15,041
it came my PhD, trying to

383
01:15:15,041 --> 01:15:17,291
solve the rest of the questions.

384
01:15:17,333 --> 01:15:20,458
Yeah. So so with the with these, because

385
01:15:20,458 --> 01:15:21,875
like, yes, to my knowledge, there's

386
01:15:21,875 --> 01:15:23,583
almost nothing known about or there has

387
01:15:23,583 --> 01:15:26,916
been almost nothing known. Do you ever

388
01:15:26,916 --> 01:15:31,833
meet GSA pay? Nota Bartolo desi Ari? Yes.

389
01:15:32,625 --> 01:15:38,666
Yes. He came in 2022. And we were with

390
01:15:38,666 --> 01:15:40,750
the Walter Mann Foundation that at that

391
01:15:40,750 --> 01:15:44,375
time he the foundation was funding most

392
01:15:44,375 --> 01:15:46,291
of my research through my research.

393
01:15:46,750 --> 01:15:49,500
Through my PhD. So they invite you

394
01:15:49,500 --> 01:15:51,791
separate to actually see mobile and

395
01:15:51,791 --> 01:15:54,875
Canada in the white, because he described

396
01:15:54,875 --> 01:15:58,291
the species in the 80s while he was doing

397
01:15:58,291 --> 01:16:01,958
his PhD at scripts, scripts, but he never

398
01:16:01,958 --> 01:16:04,583
saw the animals in the water. He just

399
01:16:04,583 --> 01:16:06,166
described the animals from

400
01:16:06,166 --> 01:16:08,041
landing from the fishers.

401
01:16:08,333 --> 01:16:11,416
Yeah, so it was it was really, really

402
01:16:11,416 --> 01:16:14,333
something to to be in the water because

403
01:16:14,333 --> 01:16:16,666
it was like a perfect day. The water was

404
01:16:16,666 --> 01:16:20,916
like a lake. And we found this group of

405
01:16:20,916 --> 01:16:23,291
mobile as it could. I think there were

406
01:16:23,291 --> 01:16:26,083
like, thousands of them in this vortex

407
01:16:26,083 --> 01:16:27,625
doing this vortex. So you

408
01:16:27,625 --> 01:16:29,375
didn't even need to swim.

409
01:16:30,333 --> 01:16:33,666
And you said they got into the water and

410
01:16:33,666 --> 01:16:37,375
he was just like floating at the surface

411
01:16:37,375 --> 01:16:39,750
and the moment as we're beneath them. And

412
01:16:39,750 --> 01:16:41,375
yeah, it was it was

413
01:16:41,375 --> 01:16:43,958
amazing. Yeah. He earned it.

414
01:16:46,333 --> 01:16:48,708
They rewarded him well for it. Yeah.

415
01:16:49,333 --> 01:16:52,166
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's

416
01:16:52,166 --> 01:16:53,958
so when you're when you're working out

417
01:16:53,958 --> 01:16:55,666
when you're working on these monkey on

418
01:16:55,666 --> 01:16:57,750
monkey on it. Did you ever did you

419
01:16:57,750 --> 01:16:59,166
encounter any other any

420
01:16:59,166 --> 01:16:59,291
other species of devil?

421
01:16:59,333 --> 01:17:04,833
Yeah, well, in the Gulf of California,

422
01:17:05,583 --> 01:17:08,583
mobiles are like very, very common. The

423
01:17:08,583 --> 01:17:11,208
most common one is the monkey on it. But

424
01:17:11,208 --> 01:17:14,208
then we have mobile. That is the benefit.

425
01:17:14,458 --> 01:17:17,750
They will raise and mobile a mobile. And

426
01:17:17,750 --> 01:17:23,791
but because our surveys are like super

427
01:17:23,791 --> 01:17:27,833
target, we only capture a monkey on it

428
01:17:27,833 --> 01:17:28,291
because we we use the monkey on it.

429
01:17:28,333 --> 01:17:31,500
Because we we use like an artist on a net

430
01:17:31,500 --> 01:17:34,791
that we make it. It's called rodeo

431
01:17:34,791 --> 01:17:38,041
technique. So when we spot the group at

432
01:17:38,041 --> 01:17:41,583
the surface, the features start to set up

433
01:17:41,583 --> 01:17:44,625
the net super fast around the group and

434
01:17:44,625 --> 01:17:47,458
we go with the boat making like around

435
01:17:47,458 --> 01:17:48,750
around the group and then

436
01:17:48,750 --> 01:17:50,291
just close it very fast.

437
01:17:50,333 --> 01:17:54,291
Although sometimes they can go underneath

438
01:17:54,291 --> 01:17:58,583
like they are masters of avoiding the

439
01:17:58,583 --> 01:18:03,208
net. So that's how we capture. But it's

440
01:18:03,208 --> 01:18:06,791
very specific. Like we never have other

441
01:18:06,791 --> 01:18:09,833
species. No, no, the raise the devil

442
01:18:09,833 --> 01:18:11,625
raise another. Are they fairly are they

443
01:18:11,625 --> 01:18:12,291
targeted into fisheries down there?

444
01:18:12,333 --> 01:18:18,041
No, in Mexico, they are protected since

445
01:18:18,041 --> 01:18:23,458
2007. So yeah, since 2007, the fishery

446
01:18:23,458 --> 01:18:27,250
was finished because previously there

447
01:18:27,250 --> 01:18:31,625
were direct fisheries and it was crazy.

448
01:18:31,958 --> 01:18:34,125
Like you could go to this place that is

449
01:18:34,125 --> 01:18:37,541
now the epicenter for ecotourists in La

450
01:18:37,541 --> 01:18:39,958
Ventana. So before

451
01:18:39,958 --> 01:18:41,291
this was the main fishery.

452
01:18:41,416 --> 01:18:44,875
Main fishery in the one of the main

453
01:18:44,875 --> 01:18:47,666
fisheries in the Gulf of California, like

454
01:18:47,666 --> 01:18:50,583
the fishers were just setting the net

455
01:18:50,583 --> 01:18:54,958
super close to the coast and retrieving

456
01:18:54,958 --> 01:18:58,250
it in the morning. And some days the net

457
01:18:58,250 --> 01:19:01,000
was so heavy, they they couldn't leave

458
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:03,125
the net because it has so many mobiles

459
01:19:03,125 --> 01:19:06,541
that they just drag the net towards the

460
01:19:06,541 --> 01:19:08,833
beach and then start to process the

461
01:19:08,833 --> 01:19:10,083
animals on the beach.

462
01:19:10,958 --> 01:19:16,208
So yeah, but since 2007, they they were

463
01:19:16,208 --> 01:19:20,708
protected. But the big problem is the

464
01:19:20,708 --> 01:19:25,875
bycatch. Yeah, I what I've heard what I

465
01:19:25,875 --> 01:19:27,666
understand is because they tend they tend

466
01:19:27,666 --> 01:19:30,166
to travel in large groups, the monkey on

467
01:19:30,166 --> 01:19:32,583
and so like the fishers used to like spot

468
01:19:32,583 --> 01:19:33,500
where they were moving

469
01:19:33,500 --> 01:19:34,291
like along the coast.

470
01:19:34,333 --> 01:19:36,208
They would set the nets, they could

471
01:19:36,208 --> 01:19:38,625
basically trap the whole wipe out the

472
01:19:38,625 --> 01:19:40,250
whole school essentially back. This is

473
01:19:40,250 --> 01:19:42,250
years ago. That's what I was curious,

474
01:19:42,625 --> 01:19:45,500
which I would think after enough years, I

475
01:19:45,500 --> 01:19:47,750
would pretty much wipe out the most of

476
01:19:47,750 --> 01:19:50,000
the population there. But they they they

477
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,041
they've been protecting them since 2007.

478
01:19:52,041 --> 01:19:53,083
Do you think it's been

479
01:19:53,083 --> 01:19:55,291
pretty successful in your opinion?

480
01:19:56,333 --> 01:20:00,250
It's successful in in the sense that a

481
01:20:00,250 --> 01:20:03,958
target fishery towards this species can

482
01:20:03,958 --> 01:20:07,958
be very damaged in very few years. Like

483
01:20:07,958 --> 01:20:09,916
if you have a target fishery towards

484
01:20:09,916 --> 01:20:13,666
mobiles in 10 years, you can almost

485
01:20:13,666 --> 01:20:16,750
destroy populations now and

486
01:20:16,750 --> 01:20:18,958
provoke local extinctions.

487
01:20:19,333 --> 01:20:25,208
But yeah, I think the the ban on the

488
01:20:25,208 --> 01:20:28,000
fishery really helped the populations.

489
01:20:29,083 --> 01:20:32,500
But we still have the problem of the

490
01:20:32,500 --> 01:20:36,958
bycatch because like we have this sense

491
01:20:36,958 --> 01:20:38,250
of like, yeah, artisanal

492
01:20:38,250 --> 01:20:39,958
feature is that like small.

493
01:20:40,333 --> 01:20:44,875
But we find out that one fisherman with

494
01:20:44,875 --> 01:20:48,541
one net like a net that is maybe less

495
01:20:48,541 --> 01:20:52,041
than a kilometer is a big less than a

496
01:20:52,041 --> 01:20:55,625
kilometer can kill up to 80 mobiles in

497
01:20:55,625 --> 01:21:00,375
one night. So if you multiply that for

498
01:21:00,375 --> 01:21:03,500
all the all the days that he's going out

499
01:21:03,500 --> 01:21:05,000
and all the pungers that are

500
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:06,916
out fishing with kill nets.

501
01:21:07,583 --> 01:21:11,750
It's a massive, massive number of

502
01:21:11,750 --> 01:21:14,541
bycatch. And the problem with the bycatch

503
01:21:14,541 --> 01:21:16,708
is because they are not allowed to bring

504
01:21:16,708 --> 01:21:19,666
the animals to the to the shore. They

505
01:21:19,666 --> 01:21:23,125
just throw overboard. And we don't have

506
01:21:23,125 --> 01:21:27,583
the numbers or the sense of how many are

507
01:21:27,583 --> 01:21:30,166
being killed by these kill nets that are

508
01:21:30,166 --> 01:21:32,041
actually targeting stingrays.

509
01:21:33,041 --> 01:21:35,583
Right. Okay. Yeah. So that's one of the

510
01:21:35,583 --> 01:21:39,208
main problems in California. Are kill

511
01:21:39,208 --> 01:21:42,750
nets in in that area? Are they not banned

512
01:21:42,750 --> 01:21:46,958
because of the whole toto alba and vikita

513
01:21:46,958 --> 01:21:52,125
problem in there? No, the total is more

514
01:21:52,125 --> 01:21:53,625
on the north part of

515
01:21:53,625 --> 01:21:55,291
the Gulf of California.

516
01:21:55,333 --> 01:21:58,458
So we are very much at the south. This is

517
01:21:58,458 --> 01:22:00,541
more south. I got just not the entire

518
01:22:00,541 --> 01:22:02,791
Gulf. It's just like in that northern

519
01:22:02,791 --> 01:22:05,416
part. Yeah, just the northern part is

520
01:22:05,416 --> 01:22:07,250
where the total of a fishery is

521
01:22:07,250 --> 01:22:10,291
concentrated. Gotcha. Got. Because when

522
01:22:10,291 --> 01:22:12,208
we have the problem. Right.

523
01:22:13,333 --> 01:22:16,833
But the gill nets are allowed and are

524
01:22:16,833 --> 01:22:20,333
widely used among the artisanal fishers

525
01:22:20,333 --> 01:22:24,083
in this region. They use it for angel

526
01:22:24,083 --> 01:22:28,250
sharks and other stingray species that

527
01:22:28,250 --> 01:22:31,000
actually have like a huge market here.

528
01:22:31,333 --> 01:22:35,083
Right. So they don't want the devil rays

529
01:22:35,083 --> 01:22:38,208
in their nets. No, they

530
01:22:38,208 --> 01:22:40,416
don't target the devil rays.

531
01:22:41,333 --> 01:22:47,375
But if they have the race, sometimes they

532
01:22:47,375 --> 01:22:50,958
process the meat as well and they sell it

533
01:22:50,958 --> 01:22:54,791
under other names. And that was another

534
01:22:54,791 --> 01:22:57,583
study that we conducted in two thousand

535
01:22:57,583 --> 01:23:01,458
and twenty two in the supermarkets of La

536
01:23:01,458 --> 01:23:04,333
Paz. So we were collecting Manta Raya

537
01:23:04,333 --> 01:23:06,916
because they call everything Manta Raya

538
01:23:06,916 --> 01:23:08,291
is like the umbrella term.

539
01:23:08,333 --> 01:23:11,333
And we find out that under Manta Raya

540
01:23:11,333 --> 01:23:13,958
there are actually fourteen species of

541
01:23:13,958 --> 01:23:16,416
sharks and whales. And among those

542
01:23:16,416 --> 01:23:18,583
species are two mobulans that are

543
01:23:18,583 --> 01:23:22,583
federally protected. So that's that's the

544
01:23:22,583 --> 01:23:25,041
problem. Also the meat of the mobulans

545
01:23:25,041 --> 01:23:29,291
are not very high value here because they

546
01:23:29,291 --> 01:23:30,583
have like a dark meat.

547
01:23:31,333 --> 01:23:34,291
They actually call it here. Cubanas

548
01:23:34,291 --> 01:23:38,208
because of the dark dark color of the

549
01:23:38,208 --> 01:23:43,166
interesting. So it's very low price and

550
01:23:43,166 --> 01:23:46,625
the fishers doesn't get much money for

551
01:23:46,625 --> 01:23:48,916
the mobulans. They get more for the

552
01:23:48,916 --> 01:23:53,083
stingrays. But yeah, it's it's a bycatch

553
01:23:53,083 --> 01:23:56,333
because of the habitat overlap.

554
01:23:57,750 --> 01:24:00,166
Have you done much? Have you gone

555
01:24:00,166 --> 01:24:01,750
elsewhere along the Pacific coast of

556
01:24:01,750 --> 01:24:03,708
Mexico to see or Central America to see

557
01:24:03,708 --> 01:24:05,583
if you find any other aggregations of

558
01:24:05,583 --> 01:24:09,958
these things? So, they aggregate pretty

559
01:24:09,958 --> 01:24:13,333
much everywhere they exist. That's the

560
01:24:13,333 --> 01:24:15,541
thing. It's something

561
01:24:15,541 --> 01:24:17,958
that is within their species.

562
01:24:18,333 --> 01:24:18,791
And that's what they do is they

563
01:24:18,791 --> 01:24:20,083
aggregate. They aggregate. They aggregate. They aggregate. They

564
01:24:20,083 --> 01:24:25,500
aggregate. The thing here in is this

565
01:24:25,500 --> 01:24:28,916
massive aggregations with money to these

566
01:24:28,916 --> 01:24:32,583
aggregations that are like thousands of

567
01:24:32,583 --> 01:24:35,375
thousands of individuals in less than one

568
01:24:35,375 --> 01:24:38,875
kilometer. So it's very

569
01:24:38,875 --> 01:24:42,291
seasonal and it goes by pulses.

570
01:24:42,333 --> 01:24:46,250
It goes by pulses. But it's along a

571
01:24:46,250 --> 01:24:49,250
migration that they are conducting around

572
01:24:49,250 --> 01:24:52,416
the peninsula. They also aggregate. For

573
01:24:52,416 --> 01:24:56,625
example, if you go to a garetto or in

574
01:24:56,625 --> 01:25:02,333
Costa Rica in Ecuador in Peru as well.

575
01:25:02,583 --> 01:25:05,791
They also aggregate. But you cannot find

576
01:25:05,791 --> 01:25:08,291
these massive groups as you see here.

577
01:25:08,333 --> 01:25:14,625
How come? Maybe it's because of the

578
01:25:14,625 --> 01:25:17,916
fisheries like they've been so heavily

579
01:25:17,916 --> 01:25:21,583
fished. Oh, I see. It's not as abundant.

580
01:25:22,333 --> 01:25:26,000
There's not as much. Or it's just because

581
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:28,666
we don't know because for these huge

582
01:25:28,666 --> 01:25:31,500
groups that are here. We didn't know

583
01:25:31,500 --> 01:25:37,291
until 2017 2018. Or we knew that they were going to be there.

584
01:25:37,458 --> 01:25:40,291
We knew that they were making these large

585
01:25:40,291 --> 01:25:42,625
aggregations, but there was just not

586
01:25:42,625 --> 01:25:47,500
research on this species. So is this work

587
01:25:47,500 --> 01:25:49,416
you've been doing here now? You're

588
01:25:49,416 --> 01:25:51,250
involved in the important shark and ray

589
01:25:51,250 --> 01:25:53,916
areas program. You're a research

590
01:25:53,916 --> 01:25:57,208
assistant there. Research researcher in

591
01:25:57,208 --> 01:25:59,208
that program. Is this the information

592
01:25:59,208 --> 01:26:01,166
you've gathered from these monkey on

593
01:26:01,166 --> 01:26:04,666
monkey on? Are they going to be factoring

594
01:26:04,666 --> 01:26:06,291
play a role in how you?

595
01:26:06,333 --> 01:26:09,416
How you work on that project as well?

596
01:26:11,041 --> 01:26:14,541
So for monkey, that's actually how I

597
01:26:14,541 --> 01:26:17,416
started with the interest with important

598
01:26:17,416 --> 01:26:23,625
shark and raised areas because they were

599
01:26:23,625 --> 01:26:26,166
asking for proposals in two thousand and

600
01:26:26,166 --> 01:26:28,250
twenty two. I think it was the first

601
01:26:28,250 --> 01:26:29,291
region they were assessing.

602
01:26:29,333 --> 01:26:33,916
So I wanted to put more pianos on the

603
01:26:33,916 --> 01:26:38,250
map. So I submit a proposal with all my

604
01:26:38,250 --> 01:26:41,708
PhD information for the nursery area for

605
01:26:41,708 --> 01:26:45,291
the reproductive grounds. And so they got

606
01:26:45,291 --> 01:26:49,166
they have already several issues. Some

607
01:26:49,166 --> 01:26:50,625
here in Baja. I know they

608
01:26:50,625 --> 01:26:51,291
also have something better.

609
01:26:51,333 --> 01:26:56,958
And and now that we are assessing the

610
01:26:56,958 --> 01:27:03,791
North Pacific region. I'm hoping to as

611
01:27:03,791 --> 01:27:06,250
well add them in some of the proposals

612
01:27:06,250 --> 01:27:09,708
for the peninsula for the Pacific side.

613
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:12,416
Yeah, but the important it's not just for

614
01:27:12,416 --> 01:27:14,125
mobility is for all types of sharks and

615
01:27:14,125 --> 01:27:16,208
rays and go sharks. Are there other

616
01:27:16,208 --> 01:27:19,166
species that you can talk about that you

617
01:27:19,166 --> 01:27:20,083
think are important that

618
01:27:20,083 --> 01:27:20,291
they should be looked at?

619
01:27:20,333 --> 01:27:22,291
Should be looked at in the area.

620
01:27:23,333 --> 01:27:28,458
And here in Baja, especially I think a

621
01:27:28,458 --> 01:27:34,291
guitar fishes, angel sharks. We have a

622
01:27:34,291 --> 01:27:36,291
lot of horn sharks as

623
01:27:36,291 --> 01:27:39,958
well. Aggregations of.

624
01:27:41,333 --> 01:27:45,250
What a silky sharks. We have a lot of

625
01:27:45,250 --> 01:27:48,291
aggregations of silky. OK, so yeah, it's

626
01:27:48,291 --> 01:27:49,875
it's going to be very interesting. We

627
01:27:49,875 --> 01:27:53,416
have the workshop in three weeks. So

628
01:27:53,416 --> 01:27:57,000
yeah, we are just now in the craziness of

629
01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:59,750
all the proposals and looking for more

630
01:27:59,750 --> 01:28:02,291
areas and talking to everybody in the region.

631
01:28:02,333 --> 01:28:07,000
Is it going to be in the workshop in

632
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:10,000
Mexico or yeah, it's going to be in Playa

633
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:13,166
del Carmen. OK, OK. Nice. It's a good

634
01:28:13,166 --> 01:28:15,083
spot. And the gang the gang will all be

635
01:28:15,083 --> 01:28:16,833
there. And that's going to be for the

636
01:28:16,833 --> 01:28:19,541
whole sort of Eastern North Pacific from

637
01:28:19,541 --> 01:28:23,791
the Bering Sea to Gulf of California.

638
01:28:24,958 --> 01:28:28,041
Yes, but we are also including the

639
01:28:28,041 --> 01:28:32,000
Caribbean and the Northwestern

640
01:28:32,333 --> 01:28:36,041
Atlantic. Oh, wow. That's huge. In in

641
01:28:36,041 --> 01:28:38,333
this workshop, we combine two regions.

642
01:28:39,208 --> 01:28:43,208
Yeah, we are feeling it. Yeah, I say I

643
01:28:43,208 --> 01:28:44,625
guess I guess so. If you're going to be

644
01:28:44,625 --> 01:28:45,750
doing you're going to be doing all of

645
01:28:45,750 --> 01:28:49,750
that work. So with all those things. So

646
01:28:49,750 --> 01:28:52,333
what's so you got. So you say you got a

647
01:28:52,333 --> 01:28:54,416
pretty full plate with things going on

648
01:28:54,416 --> 01:28:56,458
here. Is there anything else like you

649
01:28:56,458 --> 01:28:58,291
find time to go do some surfing?

650
01:28:58,333 --> 01:29:03,083
Yes, I go surfing during the weekends and

651
01:29:03,083 --> 01:29:05,208
very early in the mornings if the swell

652
01:29:05,208 --> 01:29:09,708
is good. And actually it was very like

653
01:29:09,708 --> 01:29:13,250
the place where I go surfing is like a

654
01:29:13,250 --> 01:29:17,583
secret spot where nobody else. Oh, it's

655
01:29:17,583 --> 01:29:20,625
very local. So I was there and I was

656
01:29:20,625 --> 01:29:23,291
seeing them in Canada surfing in the ways

657
01:29:23,291 --> 01:29:26,583
when I saw. Oh, cool. Wow. So I was like,

658
01:29:26,583 --> 01:29:28,291
I have to put an acoustic guitar.

659
01:29:28,333 --> 01:29:28,666
And I was like, Oh, I'm going to get the

660
01:29:28,666 --> 01:29:30,500
receiver here because I'm sure I'm going

661
01:29:30,500 --> 01:29:34,208
to get the mobile. And Don Crow was like,

662
01:29:34,208 --> 01:29:36,041
you're going to be wrong. Like they are.

663
01:29:36,416 --> 01:29:40,458
You will never get them in the middle of

664
01:29:40,458 --> 01:29:43,041
the Pacific, especially because I got

665
01:29:43,041 --> 01:29:45,291
them here in the Gulf of California.

666
01:29:45,916 --> 01:29:50,625
Yeah. But I put the receiver anyway. And

667
01:29:50,625 --> 01:29:55,416
we got several channels that we take in.

668
01:29:58,333 --> 01:30:02,208
And they went all the way to the Pacific

669
01:30:02,208 --> 01:30:05,333
coast and up the Pacific coast. Oh,

670
01:30:05,333 --> 01:30:09,000
really? Yeah, they were up. It was this

671
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:15,000
place is from the time. Place where we

672
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:18,458
put it. It was like 520 kilometers away.

673
01:30:18,458 --> 01:30:20,916
Wow. Wow. They get

674
01:30:20,916 --> 01:30:22,291
north of Magdalena Bay.

675
01:30:23,458 --> 01:30:26,250
Probably. Yes, I don't really receive it

676
01:30:26,250 --> 01:30:29,750
farther up. I my last receiver ended up

677
01:30:29,750 --> 01:30:34,333
in Magdalena Bay. Yeah. But yeah, after

678
01:30:34,333 --> 01:30:37,333
that, we don't know. But probably what

679
01:30:37,333 --> 01:30:39,458
you had this. Well, now, just for people

680
01:30:39,458 --> 01:30:40,666
out there, Don Crowell actually.

681
01:30:41,666 --> 01:30:43,791
And I went to did our masters together,

682
01:30:43,791 --> 01:30:45,208
Moss Landing Marine Laboratories. And

683
01:30:45,208 --> 01:30:48,125
he's mainly a marine mammal guy, but he's

684
01:30:48,125 --> 01:30:49,875
always been a keen surfer. And so did you

685
01:30:49,875 --> 01:30:51,500
have to share your secret surf spot with

686
01:30:51,500 --> 01:30:54,208
Don? Yes. Yes. Okay.

687
01:30:54,250 --> 01:30:54,708
In the pin.

688
01:30:55,375 --> 01:31:02,041
Well, I have to make sure Don Don's a

689
01:31:02,041 --> 01:31:03,208
professor at the University of

690
01:31:03,208 --> 01:31:04,500
California, Santa Cruz. I have to make

691
01:31:04,500 --> 01:31:06,291
sure Don catches this episode.

692
01:31:21,750 --> 01:31:23,750
How do you feel about that?

693
01:31:25,375 --> 01:31:27,958
I feel excited. And I try

694
01:31:27,958 --> 01:31:29,291
not to think about it much.

695
01:31:29,416 --> 01:31:39,333
I already because this year there's this

696
01:31:39,333 --> 01:31:44,541
format of combined talks. So there's like

697
01:31:44,541 --> 01:31:48,958
early researchers with a more senior

698
01:31:48,958 --> 01:31:53,458
researchers. So yeah, I've been talking

699
01:31:53,458 --> 01:31:57,000
with guy because we are

700
01:31:57,000 --> 01:31:59,291
going to give the talk together.

701
01:31:59,333 --> 01:32:02,791
Guys get guys speaking as well. Yes. Yes.

702
01:32:03,291 --> 01:32:05,875
So yeah, it's it's also been very good to

703
01:32:05,875 --> 01:32:09,750
have these meetings with him and just try

704
01:32:09,750 --> 01:32:15,833
to to put form at our message and what we

705
01:32:15,833 --> 01:32:20,375
want to try to communicate. But yeah, I

706
01:32:20,375 --> 01:32:22,958
think like spoiler alert.

707
01:32:23,333 --> 01:32:27,791
The talk is is going to be about mobile.

708
01:32:28,666 --> 01:32:33,416
But it's going to be about really

709
01:32:33,416 --> 01:32:37,750
collaboration, like how collaboration is

710
01:32:37,750 --> 01:32:42,458
it makes wonders. And for me, it's

711
01:32:42,458 --> 01:32:45,250
something that I learned it first with

712
01:32:45,250 --> 01:32:47,833
month of trust. And now with days record

713
01:32:47,833 --> 01:32:51,583
it to see how how it is

714
01:32:51,583 --> 01:32:52,291
when people really collaborate.

715
01:32:52,333 --> 01:32:57,500
Even people that work in the same areas

716
01:32:57,500 --> 01:32:59,541
or with the same species that normally

717
01:32:59,541 --> 01:33:03,083
they don't collaborate as much because we

718
01:33:03,083 --> 01:33:06,000
are like an outside entity and a neutral

719
01:33:06,000 --> 01:33:08,125
one. And it's like, okay, we are just

720
01:33:08,125 --> 01:33:10,416
going to deal with

721
01:33:10,416 --> 01:33:11,291
everybody the same way.

722
01:33:11,333 --> 01:33:18,333
And we have an objective and goal. And at

723
01:33:18,333 --> 01:33:19,916
the end, everybody is collaborating.

724
01:33:20,458 --> 01:33:23,208
Everybody is making the best effort to

725
01:33:23,208 --> 01:33:26,041
put their best information for the

726
01:33:26,041 --> 01:33:28,583
species and for the conservation of this

727
01:33:28,583 --> 01:33:32,000
species. And it's amazing, like every

728
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:33,958
time after every workshop with the

729
01:33:33,958 --> 01:33:37,041
Israel's we are just like how much

730
01:33:37,041 --> 01:33:39,291
information there is outside there.

731
01:33:39,333 --> 01:33:42,708
Everybody has a lot of information and

732
01:33:42,708 --> 01:33:46,416
how amazing is when everything comes

733
01:33:46,416 --> 01:33:51,333
together in a map or in the case of the

734
01:33:51,333 --> 01:33:53,500
month of trust, it was for the global

735
01:33:53,500 --> 01:33:58,583
trade. Right. But yeah, it's like people

736
01:33:58,583 --> 01:34:01,208
is it's really open to collaborate.

737
01:34:01,458 --> 01:34:03,625
Sometimes we just have to set the ground.

738
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:06,291
Yep. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

739
01:34:06,333 --> 01:34:09,375
So let me ask, so where do you see your

740
01:34:09,375 --> 01:34:11,666
career going your early career getting

741
01:34:11,666 --> 01:34:13,375
this big talk at the thing? Where do you

742
01:34:13,375 --> 01:34:15,000
see where do you see yourself in the next

743
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:18,000
5, 10, 20 years from now?

744
01:34:20,083 --> 01:34:27,458
Well, as, as you could see by my resume,

745
01:34:27,666 --> 01:34:33,125
I have like very diverse interest. Yeah,

746
01:34:33,458 --> 01:34:38,291
so yeah, for sure. I really hope to keep

747
01:34:38,291 --> 01:34:40,333
going with the model of research here in

748
01:34:40,333 --> 01:34:45,541
Mexico and do more projects, like always

749
01:34:45,541 --> 01:34:46,958
focus on the conservation.

750
01:34:46,958 --> 01:34:47,291
That's like my main goal.

751
01:34:47,333 --> 01:34:52,083
That's like my main drive to do science.

752
01:34:52,583 --> 01:34:56,041
And but I also see myself working with

753
01:34:56,041 --> 01:35:01,625
horses. Horses. Interesting. Like

754
01:35:01,625 --> 01:35:04,291
research or just like riding? No, just

755
01:35:04,291 --> 01:35:07,583
like giving. Yeah, like a keynote that up

756
01:35:07,583 --> 01:35:10,125
and things like that. I like it. Oh,

757
01:35:10,125 --> 01:35:13,208
nice. That's that's how long

758
01:35:13,208 --> 01:35:14,083
you've been into horse riding?

759
01:35:15,416 --> 01:35:18,041
Since I was 10. Since you're 10. Okay.

760
01:35:18,583 --> 01:35:20,708
She's actually been in the horses at

761
01:35:20,708 --> 01:35:22,250
least as long or longer than you've been

762
01:35:22,250 --> 01:35:26,458
into the sharks and mobile. It's actually

763
01:35:26,458 --> 01:35:29,583
more into horses than into. Yeah. Oh,

764
01:35:29,791 --> 01:35:33,416
nice. Do you ride down in in La Paz? Yes.

765
01:35:34,125 --> 01:35:36,416
Well, not in La Paz, but in a small town

766
01:35:36,416 --> 01:35:40,125
on the Pacific coast. Okay. Yeah. Nice.

767
01:35:40,500 --> 01:35:42,916
We ride there. That's awesome. That's

768
01:35:42,916 --> 01:35:43,291
great. That's awesome.

769
01:35:43,500 --> 01:35:47,083
So what what I mean, you got a diverse

770
01:35:47,083 --> 01:35:48,500
background. What what advice would you

771
01:35:48,500 --> 01:35:50,041
have for a young person just sort of

772
01:35:50,041 --> 01:35:54,916
starting out? Um, what I would say, I

773
01:35:54,916 --> 01:35:58,333
would say try to collaborate with as much

774
01:35:58,333 --> 01:36:02,666
people as they allow you to. Sometimes

775
01:36:02,666 --> 01:36:04,750
you just send a lot of emails and it's

776
01:36:04,750 --> 01:36:07,625
like, nah, nah, nah. But you just have to

777
01:36:07,625 --> 01:36:12,291
try. Yeah. For me, it was, I think, it was a very good idea.

778
01:36:12,333 --> 01:36:15,500
It was what really helped me was like

779
01:36:15,500 --> 01:36:19,000
getting into all these different projects

780
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:23,583
in very, very different places with of

781
01:36:23,583 --> 01:36:27,125
course very different set of people. Um

782
01:36:27,125 --> 01:36:29,708
and then you learn how to interact with

783
01:36:29,708 --> 01:36:32,416
everybody and you learn a little bit.

784
01:36:32,708 --> 01:36:35,375
Hopefully the good stuff from everybody.

785
01:36:36,541 --> 01:36:40,875
Um how to do research in. Yeah. With

786
01:36:40,875 --> 01:36:41,291
pictures how to do research.

787
01:36:41,333 --> 01:36:45,458
How to do research in the middle of the

788
01:36:45,458 --> 01:36:49,125
Amazon how to do things like that. And at

789
01:36:49,125 --> 01:36:51,083
that point when you are learning all

790
01:36:51,083 --> 01:36:54,083
those things, you may think I'm so lost

791
01:36:54,083 --> 01:36:56,750
because I'm changing ideas every year.

792
01:36:57,333 --> 01:37:01,041
But then when you find your thing, like

793
01:37:01,041 --> 01:37:04,875
all all that knowledge will come to you

794
01:37:04,875 --> 01:37:08,500
in different forms. Sometimes it's just

795
01:37:08,500 --> 01:37:10,291
pure patience. Sometimes it's like, oh, I'm not going to do this.

796
01:37:10,375 --> 01:37:12,791
Sometimes it's like different ways of

797
01:37:12,791 --> 01:37:15,416
talking to people. Sometimes it's like

798
01:37:15,416 --> 01:37:18,750
skills to be in the field. Not doesn't

799
01:37:18,750 --> 01:37:22,500
matter if it rains or it's very hot. Um

800
01:37:22,500 --> 01:37:26,208
so yeah, I would say just go out try to

801
01:37:26,208 --> 01:37:28,833
collaborate experiment very different

802
01:37:28,833 --> 01:37:33,000
projects and different settings and be

803
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:35,291
open. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

804
01:37:35,333 --> 01:37:36,958
Well, Marta, it's been really wonderful

805
01:37:36,958 --> 01:37:39,083
having you on here and congratulations on

806
01:37:39,083 --> 01:37:41,208
giving a keynote here at the Sharks

807
01:37:41,208 --> 01:37:42,875
International. I'll I'll be sitting up

808
01:37:42,875 --> 01:37:46,500
front taking notes. Uh I look forward to

809
01:37:46,500 --> 01:37:50,291
meeting you again in person. Um and uh

810
01:37:50,291 --> 01:37:52,708
anyway, thanks very much and and and uh

811
01:37:52,708 --> 01:37:53,791
we're definitely going to have you back

812
01:37:53,791 --> 01:37:55,208
on here in the future. If you get some

813
01:37:55,208 --> 01:37:57,541
new exciting research going, we'd love to

814
01:37:57,541 --> 01:37:58,791
have you back on the show again.

815
01:37:59,416 --> 01:38:01,291
Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you.

816
01:38:01,333 --> 01:38:02,625
Thank you, Martha, for joining us on

817
01:38:02,625 --> 01:38:03,958
today's episode of the Beyond Jaws

818
01:38:03,958 --> 01:38:05,583
podcast. It was great to have you on

819
01:38:05,583 --> 01:38:06,958
Dave. You know, one thing that I loved

820
01:38:06,958 --> 01:38:09,166
about this episode, it kind of goes to

821
01:38:09,166 --> 01:38:10,583
what you've been talking about for a long

822
01:38:10,583 --> 01:38:13,125
time is picking a species that people

823
01:38:13,125 --> 01:38:14,625
don't know much about. She had the

824
01:38:14,625 --> 01:38:17,083
opportunity to look at uh you know, just

825
01:38:17,083 --> 01:38:19,291
manta rays in general and she's like, you

826
01:38:19,291 --> 01:38:20,708
know what? A lot of people are looking at

827
01:38:20,708 --> 01:38:22,291
are looking into the species during

828
01:38:22,291 --> 01:38:24,166
research on the species. We know a good

829
01:38:24,166 --> 01:38:25,958
amount of information about this, but

830
01:38:25,958 --> 01:38:27,333
what we don't know is we don't know about

831
01:38:27,333 --> 01:38:29,083
devil race. So I'm going to do anything I

832
01:38:29,083 --> 01:38:31,291
can on devil race to find out as much as I can. And I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm

833
01:38:55,708 --> 01:38:58,041
going to do that. And all the scientific evidence here, uh, of the inverse of

834
01:38:58,041 --> 01:38:58,208
there are being one research procedure and,
and she just immediately got over

835
01:38:58,208 --> 01:38:59,541
it, and then then he was a whole bunch of Supplementpl VOL like these, and he just hadn't in fact, as we talked about, they're the smallest,

836
01:38:59,708 --> 01:39:00,958
they're the smallest of the devil rays.

837
01:39:02,208 --> 01:39:03,083
And species was just

838
01:39:03,083 --> 01:39:05,291
described back in about 1987.

839
01:39:06,375 --> 01:39:08,416
And it's, and so, but nobody's really

840
01:39:08,416 --> 01:39:09,416
ever done much for them.

841
01:39:09,416 --> 01:39:10,916
And they used to be, before the

842
01:39:10,916 --> 01:39:12,333
protections came in,

843
01:39:12,333 --> 01:39:13,208
in Mexico, they used to be

844
01:39:13,208 --> 01:39:14,500
fished fairly heavily actually.

845
01:39:14,833 --> 01:39:15,000
Yeah.

846
01:39:15,375 --> 01:39:17,083
And so it was kind of nice to see,

847
01:39:17,083 --> 01:39:18,833
she found something that is now

848
01:39:18,833 --> 01:39:19,750
protected, thankfully.

849
01:39:20,291 --> 01:39:21,875
And she really is just taking this,

850
01:39:21,875 --> 01:39:22,750
taking this on and

851
01:39:22,750 --> 01:39:24,916
really basically, you know,

852
01:39:24,916 --> 01:39:25,625
writing the story for

853
01:39:25,625 --> 01:39:26,666
these things, which is amazing.

854
01:39:27,375 --> 01:39:28,208
Oh, absolutely. I

855
01:39:28,208 --> 01:39:29,583
think this is, you know,

856
01:39:29,583 --> 01:39:30,958
it goes towards the thing is you want to

857
01:39:30,958 --> 01:39:32,708
be able to get funding.

858
01:39:32,708 --> 01:39:33,208
You want to be able

859
01:39:33,208 --> 01:39:34,250
to research something,

860
01:39:34,250 --> 01:39:36,000
do something that nobody else is doing.

861
01:39:36,666 --> 01:39:38,083
There's still a lot of information,

862
01:39:38,083 --> 01:39:39,458
a lot of species where we don't have

863
01:39:39,458 --> 01:39:42,500
information on shark ray skate species,

864
01:39:42,500 --> 01:39:44,375
and it needs to be done.

865
01:39:44,625 --> 01:39:47,333
And so to be able to, you know,

866
01:39:47,333 --> 01:39:49,041
piggyback on other research or to be able

867
01:39:49,041 --> 01:39:51,458
to identify species that need a lot of

868
01:39:51,458 --> 01:39:53,958
information on it, I think is amazing.

869
01:39:53,958 --> 01:39:55,083
And you can do something fun,

870
01:39:55,291 --> 01:39:57,583
just like Martha's doing where, you know,

871
01:39:57,583 --> 01:39:58,500
she talked at the end

872
01:39:58,500 --> 01:40:01,208
about going surfing on,

873
01:40:01,208 --> 01:40:04,791
on the Pacific side of Baja and, and

874
01:40:04,791 --> 01:40:05,875
she's like, oh wait,

875
01:40:06,125 --> 01:40:07,750
there's like, this is a cool local spot,

876
01:40:07,750 --> 01:40:09,291
but there's mobulates here.

877
01:40:09,500 --> 01:40:10,458
I wonder if any of the

878
01:40:10,458 --> 01:40:12,500
species that I've tagged are here.

879
01:40:12,500 --> 01:40:13,666
I'm going to put it, I'm going to drop a

880
01:40:13,666 --> 01:40:17,208
receiver where I surf and hopefully,

881
01:40:17,500 --> 01:40:18,583
you know, we'll see, be able to see. And

882
01:40:18,583 --> 01:40:20,041
even her advisors like, you know what?

883
01:40:20,416 --> 01:40:21,541
You're never going to find anything

884
01:40:21,541 --> 01:40:22,666
there. What happens?

885
01:40:23,166 --> 01:40:25,500
500 kilometers like distance between

886
01:40:25,500 --> 01:40:26,875
where she tagged them and

887
01:40:26,875 --> 01:40:27,916
where she put the receiver.

888
01:40:28,416 --> 01:40:30,833
She finds one, maybe a couple. And it's

889
01:40:30,833 --> 01:40:32,625
just like, you know, it's that curiosity.

890
01:40:32,625 --> 01:40:34,083
You're out surfing, you're enjoying your

891
01:40:34,083 --> 01:40:35,833
weekend. You know, early in the morning,

892
01:40:35,833 --> 01:40:37,583
you see a mobula, like, wait a minute,

893
01:40:37,791 --> 01:40:38,666
maybe they come out this

894
01:40:38,666 --> 01:40:40,083
far, which nobody expected.

895
01:40:40,708 --> 01:40:41,750
And then you find out just that

896
01:40:41,750 --> 01:40:42,666
curiosity, dropping

897
01:40:42,666 --> 01:40:44,416
receiver there, all of a sudden,

898
01:40:44,583 --> 01:40:47,250
you know, their, their distribution has

899
01:40:47,250 --> 01:40:49,000
just increased. Yeah. You know, yeah.

900
01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:50,666
I mean, they came, they came quite a far

901
01:40:50,666 --> 01:40:51,750
up. Yeah. They came

902
01:40:51,750 --> 01:40:53,416
quite far up the coast of the

903
01:40:53,416 --> 01:40:55,500
Pacific coast of Baja was further, much

904
01:40:55,500 --> 01:40:57,458
further than I was aware of. I mostly

905
01:40:57,458 --> 01:40:57,958
knew them. They were

906
01:40:57,958 --> 01:41:00,583
mainly Gulf of California, maybe a little

907
01:41:00,583 --> 01:41:01,875
bit around the tip of Baja

908
01:41:01,875 --> 01:41:03,750
there, but they're, she's

909
01:41:03,750 --> 01:41:04,916
saying they're probably up north of

910
01:41:04,916 --> 01:41:07,000
Magdalena Bay, which is a big fondle

911
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:08,041
change for those people

912
01:41:08,041 --> 01:41:10,041
who don't know the big. And so they get

913
01:41:10,041 --> 01:41:11,083
up there and so I'm kind of

914
01:41:11,083 --> 01:41:12,125
wondering if maybe occasionally

915
01:41:12,125 --> 01:41:14,875
they might creep into Southern California

916
01:41:14,875 --> 01:41:16,541
here. I'm not aware of any,

917
01:41:16,541 --> 01:41:17,958
any records of those things.

918
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:21,083
And we get the, we get the, the, the, the

919
01:41:21,083 --> 01:41:23,000
big, uh, uh, mobula,

920
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:25,208
mobile are up here and we get a,

921
01:41:25,208 --> 01:41:26,625
you know, a couple other, uh, the, the

922
01:41:26,625 --> 01:41:28,958
giant Manare, uh, uh, mobile, a

923
01:41:28,958 --> 01:41:30,375
birosaurus, but we don't

924
01:41:30,375 --> 01:41:33,125
really get too many, don't get much more

925
01:41:33,125 --> 01:41:34,541
than that. But boy, after

926
01:41:34,541 --> 01:41:35,583
hearing her story, I wouldn't

927
01:41:35,583 --> 01:41:38,000
be surprised if in a warm water year, you

928
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:38,791
know, these, you know, some

929
01:41:38,791 --> 01:41:39,541
of these things actually do

930
01:41:39,541 --> 01:41:41,250
get up here, which would be quite a,

931
01:41:41,250 --> 01:41:42,916
quite a range extension for them. But

932
01:41:42,916 --> 01:41:43,666
especially when you have

933
01:41:43,666 --> 01:41:44,958
like things like climate change, warming

934
01:41:44,958 --> 01:41:46,083
up the seas, it's, it's

935
01:41:46,083 --> 01:41:47,041
an important understand to

936
01:41:47,083 --> 01:41:49,000
understand where that range can go,

937
01:41:49,458 --> 01:41:51,000
right? And, and, and how far up the coast

938
01:41:51,000 --> 01:41:53,833
can go. And so, uh, yeah, that'll be,

939
01:41:53,833 --> 01:41:54,833
it's, it's always interesting.

940
01:41:54,833 --> 01:41:56,208
And I just think it's that goes to that

941
01:41:56,208 --> 01:41:58,791
curiosity. Uh, you know, she has a, uh,

942
01:41:59,166 --> 01:42:00,916
at the end, she, she talks about how she,

943
01:42:00,916 --> 01:42:02,958
Martha talks about how she had a wide

944
01:42:02,958 --> 01:42:04,750
range of curiosity, not just for

945
01:42:04,750 --> 01:42:06,416
underwater species, but even

946
01:42:06,416 --> 01:42:07,833
for horse species and riding,

947
01:42:07,833 --> 01:42:09,166
and riding. She's been riding since she

948
01:42:09,166 --> 01:42:11,708
was 10. She rides in near La Paz, like

949
01:42:11,708 --> 01:42:13,583
just in along, along the coastline.

950
01:42:14,041 --> 01:42:16,166
Uh, must be just a, uh, it's, it must be

951
01:42:16,166 --> 01:42:17,500
fun just to be able to follow your

952
01:42:17,500 --> 01:42:20,333
passions as well as being able to study a

953
01:42:20,333 --> 01:42:21,458
species that, that not

954
01:42:21,458 --> 01:42:22,416
many people know about.

955
01:42:22,666 --> 01:42:24,416
So, and she's definitely, yeah, she

956
01:42:24,416 --> 01:42:25,500
definitely falls in that category. She's

957
01:42:25,500 --> 01:42:26,958
definitely been pursuing her passion.

958
01:42:26,958 --> 01:42:27,375
She's been very

959
01:42:27,375 --> 01:42:28,666
fortunate to be able to do that.

960
01:42:29,208 --> 01:42:30,708
And if you didn't pick up on the

961
01:42:30,708 --> 01:42:32,833
interview, she kind of was doing this

962
01:42:32,833 --> 01:42:34,958
ISRA important shark and ray areas, kind

963
01:42:34,958 --> 01:42:37,000
of like help pay the bills, but she

964
01:42:37,000 --> 01:42:38,875
really, real passions running her is

965
01:42:38,875 --> 01:42:40,500
getting her own NGO up

966
01:42:40,500 --> 01:42:41,750
off the ground and going.

967
01:42:42,291 --> 01:42:43,458
And that's really cool to see. Cause I

968
01:42:43,458 --> 01:42:45,125
think as we've talked about in other

969
01:42:45,125 --> 01:42:46,208
episodes, you know, in this field,

970
01:42:46,208 --> 01:42:47,250
there's never been a lot of

971
01:42:47,250 --> 01:42:48,875
jobs and I can attest to that.

972
01:42:49,333 --> 01:42:50,375
If you, but you know, you have more

973
01:42:50,375 --> 01:42:51,541
opportunities to start your own

974
01:42:51,541 --> 01:42:54,208
organization now. And the thing is

975
01:42:54,208 --> 01:42:56,083
you'll, it's got the pros and cons, but

976
01:42:56,083 --> 01:42:57,250
you have a lot more freedom to do what

977
01:42:57,250 --> 01:42:58,500
you want to do and direct your own

978
01:42:58,500 --> 01:43:00,791
research versus if you go to work in a,

979
01:43:00,791 --> 01:43:02,333
whether it's academia or agency, you're

980
01:43:02,333 --> 01:43:02,958
going to be more limited.

981
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:06,000
So there's definitely some big, big thing

982
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:08,291
there and hopefully we'll have her back

983
01:43:08,291 --> 01:43:09,583
on hopefully in the future and talk a bit

984
01:43:09,583 --> 01:43:12,333
more as she, as her career progresses and

985
01:43:12,333 --> 01:43:14,416
looking forward to her and again,

986
01:43:14,750 --> 01:43:16,750
congratulations to Marta for being one of

987
01:43:16,750 --> 01:43:17,875
the keynote speakers this

988
01:43:17,875 --> 01:43:18,916
year at sharks international.

989
01:43:19,416 --> 01:43:20,500
Absolutely. We're going to look forward

990
01:43:20,500 --> 01:43:21,791
to seeing that. Hopefully I can see that

991
01:43:21,791 --> 01:43:23,125
in person. I know Dave, you're going, I'm

992
01:43:23,125 --> 01:43:26,666
hoping to get there. But I think it'll be

993
01:43:26,666 --> 01:43:28,000
great. She's doing it with Guy Stevens,

994
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:30,000
which will be great to see that

995
01:43:30,000 --> 01:43:31,708
combination for a talk.

996
01:43:32,125 --> 01:43:33,458
I'm looking forward to seeing that. So

997
01:43:33,458 --> 01:43:35,125
about to thank you again for joining us.

998
01:43:35,125 --> 01:43:37,333
We're going to share your social media to

999
01:43:37,333 --> 01:43:38,583
their Dave. If people want to get ahold

1000
01:43:38,583 --> 01:43:39,750
of you, how would they do so?

1001
01:43:39,958 --> 01:43:42,541
You know, law shark guy on Instagram and

1002
01:43:42,541 --> 01:43:44,875
then it follow my YouTube channel, a law

1003
01:43:44,875 --> 01:43:47,125
shark guy and I catch up to series

1004
01:43:47,125 --> 01:43:48,916
searching for law sharks at Andrew and

1005
01:43:48,916 --> 01:43:50,541
I've been documentaries and I've been

1006
01:43:50,541 --> 01:43:52,125
producing and we'll have a

1007
01:43:52,125 --> 01:43:52,958
new episode out real soon.

1008
01:43:53,000 --> 01:43:55,083
Absolutely. And of course, if you want to

1009
01:43:55,083 --> 01:43:56,458
follow this, if you're not watching this

1010
01:43:56,458 --> 01:43:58,166
on YouTube, you can go to YouTube beyond

1011
01:43:58,166 --> 01:43:59,625
Jaws pod and of course on Instagram

1012
01:43:59,625 --> 01:44:01,125
beyond Jaws pod. Thank you so much

1013
01:44:01,125 --> 01:44:02,875
everybody for joining us on today's

1014
01:44:02,875 --> 01:44:04,458
episode of the beyond Jaws podcast.

1015
01:44:04,791 --> 01:44:06,625
I hope you have a great day from Dave and

1016
01:44:06,625 --> 01:44:07,875
I have a great day. We'll talk to you

1017
01:44:07,875 --> 01:44:09,250
next time and happy conservation.