Deep Sea Exploration: Jonatha Giddens on Connecting People to the Ocean Through Science and Storytelling

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Jonathan Giddens is joining us on today's

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episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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She is a deep sea ecologist.

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She is a National Geographic Explorer,

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and she is here to talk about her journey

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in becoming what she is today,

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an amazing ecologist and just somebody

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who's technology for marine exploration.

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I'm looking forward to having this show.

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So let's start the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode

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of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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I'm your co-host, Andrew Lewin here with

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my other co-host or my co-host,

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not my other co-host.

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There's only one co-host, Dave.

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Dave, Dr. David

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Ebert. Dave, how you doing?

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I'm doing good, Andrew. Yeah. I wish it

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was to me sometimes.

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I guess so many things going on.

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Can't get enough of you.

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No, no. It's like, so yeah. Well, yeah.

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Well, I'm here looking forward to

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talking to Jonathan today. I've had, I've

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known her for several years now.

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We've collaborated on probably five or

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six publications now on deep sea sharks.

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And as you mentioned in the opening, her

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background is more in deep

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sea ecology and reef ecology.

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And we kind of got connected several

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years ago because she was

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seeing these unusual sharks

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and wanted to know what they were. And

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sort of one thing led to another.

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And it's been kind of a nice

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collaboration between us.

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And I thought, hey, she, we

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need to have her on the show.

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She has a fascinating career trajectory.

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She lives out in the Hawaiian islands,

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beautiful area, at least

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my experience out there.

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And yeah, I thought it just be fast. She

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has a fascinating story.

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I thought it'd be really good for

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everyone to hear her story and how she

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wound up doing sharks.

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It definitely was. I hadn't had any

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contact with her before this podcast.

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And again, you bring in always the great

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people that that you do and, you know,

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throughout the years.

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And it was really interesting to see her

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experience and her journey, you know,

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talking about being very introduced to

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water very early at family reunions and

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then like of other places, right?

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Like really cool areas and then good

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experiences around water and then going

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into deep sea

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exploration using technology.

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I think it's just phenomenal, especially

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in in today's 2025 with the way

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technology is used on

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an ocean exploration.

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So it's kind of cool to get

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that that thought process.

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So without further ado,

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here is the interview with Dr.

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Jonathan Givens talking or sorry, we're

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gonna do that again.

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And here is the interview with Jonathan

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Giddens talking about her career in deep

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sea exploration and as a National

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Geographic Explorer.

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Enjoy. And we will talk to you after.

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Hey, Jonathan, welcome to

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the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about the deep sea?

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I am ready. Thank you

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so much for having me.

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I'm excited to be here.

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You bet.

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Well, welcome to another episode of the

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Beyond Jaws podcast where we have an

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absolutely awesome guest today.

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Dr. Jonathan Giddens.

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Jonathan has one of those positions that

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most of us early in our

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career sort of aim for.

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And that is she works

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with the National Geographic.

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She's and she is a National Geographic

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Explorer and ocean ecologist.

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And with it with the with folks on

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document and characterizing deep sea

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biodiversity, particularly sharks.

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Why else? What else

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are just study out there?

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In her role as a science lead for the

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National Geographic Exploration

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Technology Labs deep sea camera program,

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Jonathan works at the intersection of

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marine science and technology to help

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advance exploration and research into the

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largest yet least

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explored ecosystem on Earth.

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And that's the deep sea through the labs

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flagship technology access and training

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program, the deep sea

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collaboration opportunity.

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Jonathan collaborates with and helps

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build capacity among a global network of

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National Geographic Explorers grantees

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working to harness the transformative,

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transformative potential of marine

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technology to build our knowledge of

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global marine biodiversity and to inspire

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and inform marine conservation action.

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Before joining that geo, Jonathan worked

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with several federal and state agencies

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with NGOs and with research organizations

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conducting coral reef fish

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ecology studies in Hawaii.

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Another great location to probably work

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in and also in remote

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protected areas across the Pacific.

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As a scientist by training and an artist

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at heart, Jonathan blends artistic

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practice with scientific research to

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illustrate our interconnectedness with

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the ocean from the

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shallow reefs to the deep sea.

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Jonathan grew up in the foothills of the

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Catskill Mountains in western

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Massachusetts and then moved to the

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nearest coastal spot

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she could as a teenager.

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She then later sailed to Hawaii on a tall

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ship in early 20s and the islands have

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been her home ever since.

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She has over 25 research publications and

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even four or five with me,

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which is kind of exciting.

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And she's received

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numerous grants and awards.

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She's a frequent presenter at

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conferences, a public speaker, and she's

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featured in various media platforms.

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They mentioned she's occurred current

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positions as a science lead for the deep

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sea camera program

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for National Geographic.

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Her schooling is she did a bachelor's

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degree in marine science and in

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anthropology at the

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University of Hawaii at Hilo.

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She also has a master's of science in

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tropical conservation biology and

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environmental science, also from the

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University of Hawaii at Hilo.

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Her PhD is in zoology specializing in

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ecology evolution of conservation biology

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at the University of Hawaii at Manoa,

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where she also held the National Science

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Foundation graduate research fellowship.

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And with that,

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Jonathan, welcome to the show.

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Wow, that's a lot of stuff.

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Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

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Yeah.

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That's a very nice introduction.

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I had to catch my breath there.

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That's a lot you've done.

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So well, first, I got to ask you what we

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always ask all of our

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guests when they come in.

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There's how did you get into marine

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science and sharks, particularly

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especially not grown up near the ocean?

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Well, I've always loved the ocean.

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I think one of my first memories of being

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a young child is when we

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did get to go to the ocean.

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It was we lived about it was like two

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hour, two and a half hours inland.

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It felt like forever for me.

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But luckily, my family, it was important

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with my aunts and

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uncles and grandparents.

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We would have family reunions always by a

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body of water, most often the ocean.

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So that was my

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introduction to the ocean growing up.

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And I remember jumping into the water and

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just swimming as far out to sea as I

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could and kind of pretending that I was

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in the middle of the

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ocean and just leaving land.

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And I remember my mom's I can hear my

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mom's voice still on the

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shore, calling me back to land.

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And so I think even from a young age, we

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all knew my parents, my family, myself

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knew that I was very

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connected to the ocean.

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But, you know, I didn't really figure out

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how I would meet that that

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drive, you know, in my career.

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And so it has been a very winding journey

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to get to where I am now living on the

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islands and working with with ocean

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explorers all over the world.

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So it's been quite a journey.

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I've had a lot of inspiring people in my

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life as sort of north stars to kind of

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show the way a little bit and

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find my way to this where I am.

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So when you're when you're growing up in

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Massachusetts and you're going out down

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to the ocean, did you ever at that time

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at an early age, you ever imagine like

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was Hawaii somewhere on your radar or was

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it just more you want to be at the ocean?

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It was just it was the ocean Hawaii was

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not on my radar at all.

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It was basically was the kind of the

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first things first is like get to the

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coast, get to the nearest coast as I

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could and I and learn to dive.

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So that's what I did. I so after high

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school, I didn't I hadn't found a college

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that I felt comfortable with.

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I, you know, I was like, let me take some

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time and figure this out before I go

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somewhere and just go down this, you

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know, without thinking

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about thinking about it.

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So I knew I wanted to be in the water. So

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I learned to dive. I became kind of an

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apprentice dive master in that dive

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center, the Cape and divers in

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Gloucester,

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Massachusetts, where the perfect storm.

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Right. Oh, yeah.

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The movie took place. You can imagine

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that. So, yeah, it was called the Golf of

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Maine Cold Waters. We were diving every

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month of the year, except for January.

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But February, we were out there shoveling

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snow off the deck of the boat and going

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out and diving in in wet suits or for me

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anyways, in what suits.

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But just that.

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Cold water. It deserves a wetsuit.

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Yeah. But I mean, I think most people had

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actually dry suits and I just made it

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work with it, made it

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work with a wetsuit.

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Yeah. What was it? I guess it was a water

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temperature just for. Oh, it

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was in the, you know, 40 years.

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Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. You can

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and you can only you could barely see

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five feet in front of your face. And I

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just thought that was great.

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I love it. And so I guess it's a good

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thing I didn't have Hawaii on my mind

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because as soon as we used to do these

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are these trips down to Key Largo,

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Florida. So as part of my advanced

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training, my advanced diver training with

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01:09:14,125 --> 01:09:18,375
the with the dive center, we went dove in

277
01:09:18,375 --> 01:09:19,375
Key Largo on those wrecks.

278
01:09:19,625 --> 01:09:22,541
And so I have nice memory of that first

279
01:09:22,541 --> 01:09:25,708
memory diving into the warm water, the

280
01:09:25,708 --> 01:09:28,708
clear water, the tropics. And so it's

281
01:09:28,708 --> 01:09:29,791
hard. It's hard to go back

282
01:09:29,791 --> 01:09:34,208
to cold water. I don't know.

283
01:09:34,208 --> 01:09:38,208
But actually it was on that ship on that

284
01:09:38,208 --> 01:09:40,500
on that dive boat with that kind of I

285
01:09:40,500 --> 01:09:42,833
remember sitting on the dive boat on a

286
01:09:42,833 --> 01:09:44,375
this is how I got to Hawaii, basically.

287
01:09:44,375 --> 01:09:48,333
So I was early early to our teen and a

288
01:09:48,333 --> 01:09:51,083
teenager early 20s, I guess, sitting on

289
01:09:51,083 --> 01:09:54,291
this dive boat as a, you know, a decade.

290
01:09:54,291 --> 01:09:56,708
I was working on my captain's license and

291
01:09:56,708 --> 01:09:59,208
we so getting the days at sea and such.

292
01:09:59,416 --> 01:10:01,000
And I was sitting on the dive boat

293
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,208
waiting for the divers to come up and I

294
01:10:03,208 --> 01:10:05,541
saw a tall ship going by in the waters of

295
01:10:05,541 --> 01:10:06,291
Gloucester, Massachusetts.

296
01:10:06,416 --> 01:10:08,875
And I just thought it was here. I'm like,

297
01:10:08,875 --> 01:10:12,291
this is, you know, the what was it? It

298
01:10:12,291 --> 01:10:14,375
wasn't the two thousand wasn't quite the

299
01:10:14,375 --> 01:10:16,791
yes, no, it wasn't the it was the 2000.

300
01:10:17,125 --> 01:10:21,291
Yes. I was like, who who is sailing on a

301
01:10:21,291 --> 01:10:23,291
tall ship? That's like 18th century

302
01:10:23,291 --> 01:10:26,791
stuff. Who's on who's on this boat? And

303
01:10:26,791 --> 01:10:29,916
then so Dave Stillman, my dive

304
01:10:29,916 --> 01:10:31,500
instructor, the owner of the dive shop,

305
01:10:31,500 --> 01:10:34,250
he said, you know, there he knew I was

306
01:10:34,250 --> 01:10:35,375
kind of, you know, love the ocean and was

307
01:10:35,416 --> 01:10:40,125
in a kind of middle kind of searching

308
01:10:40,125 --> 01:10:43,291
point of my career. And he had the idea.

309
01:10:43,291 --> 01:10:45,000
He said, you know, there's this or

310
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,541
there's this semester at sea program

311
01:10:47,541 --> 01:10:49,625
called Sea Education Association out of

312
01:10:49,625 --> 01:10:51,125
Woods Hole where they take

313
01:10:51,125 --> 01:10:52,375
students such as yourself.

314
01:10:52,416 --> 01:10:55,666
Whereas you have the students have the

315
01:10:55,666 --> 01:10:58,375
opportunity to sail on a on a semester

316
01:10:58,375 --> 01:11:01,375
and get college credit and sail on the

317
01:11:01,375 --> 01:11:03,666
ocean. And I thought, I'd like to do

318
01:11:03,666 --> 01:11:07,083
that. So that I applied and I got in and

319
01:11:07,083 --> 01:11:08,708
it was the opportunity is you could

320
01:11:08,708 --> 01:11:11,500
either go in the Caribbean or you could

321
01:11:11,500 --> 01:11:13,375
go on the ship on in the Pacific.

322
01:11:13,416 --> 01:11:15,625
And I remember asking a colleague at the

323
01:11:15,625 --> 01:11:17,166
dive shop, what do you think I should do?

324
01:11:17,833 --> 01:11:19,500
And he said, you know, the Caribbean is a

325
01:11:19,500 --> 01:11:21,375
lot more accessible to us on the East

326
01:11:21,375 --> 01:11:23,666
Coast. Like, who knows how else you would

327
01:11:23,666 --> 01:11:25,708
get to the you would get to the Pacific

328
01:11:25,708 --> 01:11:27,375
and Hawaii like I would go for that.

329
01:11:27,375 --> 01:11:30,833
So what happened was I I did that

330
01:11:30,833 --> 01:11:33,250
semester. That was an amazing program for

331
01:11:33,250 --> 01:11:35,041
anybody who's looking for that

332
01:11:35,041 --> 01:11:38,666
experience. We sailed from Mexico down to

333
01:11:38,666 --> 01:11:43,041
the equator to Hawaii over six weeks. And

334
01:11:43,041 --> 01:11:44,458
after being six weeks at

335
01:11:44,458 --> 01:11:47,333
sea, we arrived in Hilo Harbor.

336
01:12:04,541 --> 01:12:14,375
And that's where I fell in love with Hawaii. And that's where I discovered that they have a university there.

337
01:12:14,375 --> 01:12:16,416
And I was like, hey, I'm an alum. I'm

338
01:12:16,416 --> 01:12:18,958
here at UH Hilo now. And I just wanted to

339
01:12:18,958 --> 01:12:21,291
say hi. And I was like, there's a

340
01:12:21,291 --> 01:12:24,125
university here. Yeah, it's a great

341
01:12:24,125 --> 01:12:28,250
program. And so that was it. I you know,

342
01:12:28,250 --> 01:12:30,666
I finished I kind of stayed on as a.

343
01:12:32,375 --> 01:12:34,166
I stayed on the ship for a little bit. I

344
01:12:34,166 --> 01:12:36,916
did some little bit of traveling. I kind

345
01:12:36,916 --> 01:12:39,583
of finish up some stuff. And then within

346
01:12:39,583 --> 01:12:41,500
the next year, I had applied and gotten

347
01:12:41,500 --> 01:12:43,750
into Hilo. And I've been here ever since

348
01:12:43,750 --> 01:12:46,166
I've never heard a story like that, where

349
01:12:46,166 --> 01:12:46,833
it's like, you know,

350
01:12:46,833 --> 01:12:47,750
you're on a dive boat.

351
01:12:47,750 --> 01:12:49,666
You look up, there's a tall ship. Like,

352
01:12:49,833 --> 01:12:51,583
how do I get on one of those? Oh, there's

353
01:12:51,583 --> 01:12:53,500
this great semester at sea program.

354
01:12:53,500 --> 01:12:55,291
They're like, I just you're so right.

355
01:12:55,291 --> 01:12:56,416
Because like, if you're on the East

356
01:12:56,416 --> 01:12:58,375
Coast, like I live in Ontario, Canada.

357
01:12:58,416 --> 01:13:00,000
And like the Caribbean is way more

358
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:03,375
accessible to get to than and cheaper to

359
01:13:03,375 --> 01:13:05,541
get to. And so it's easier to make those

360
01:13:05,541 --> 01:13:07,541
those those trips and dives, which is

361
01:13:07,541 --> 01:13:08,958
still wonderful to dive in the Caribbean.

362
01:13:09,583 --> 01:13:12,000
And but you took me until I was 40 to go

363
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:14,041
to Hawaii before, you know, and I just

364
01:13:14,041 --> 01:13:16,958
write where I got my discovery of Hawaii.

365
01:13:16,958 --> 01:13:18,541
And I don't blame you for not leaving.

366
01:13:18,791 --> 01:13:22,000
It's a beautiful state. It's a. And I've

367
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,208
only been to a Wahoo. But so Hilo is that

368
01:13:24,208 --> 01:13:26,375
that's on that's on the Big Island.

369
01:13:26,375 --> 01:13:29,375
Yeah, yeah. So he loves the second

370
01:13:29,375 --> 01:13:33,875
biggest city in in Hawaii. And yeah,

371
01:13:34,333 --> 01:13:36,083
beautiful. It still has that kind of like

372
01:13:36,083 --> 01:13:39,708
old school feel very kind of country.

373
01:13:40,375 --> 01:13:43,333
Yes, it was great with the for the I love

374
01:13:43,333 --> 01:13:45,708
that I was there for my undergraduate,

375
01:13:45,708 --> 01:13:48,875
especially because of the small class

376
01:13:48,875 --> 01:13:51,416
sizes, the opportunities really, you

377
01:13:51,416 --> 01:13:53,416
know, really know your professors and

378
01:13:53,416 --> 01:13:54,375
they're so supportive.

379
01:13:54,416 --> 01:13:59,000
And so for me, as I had, you know, taken

380
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:01,041
a while to actually find my place that I

381
01:14:01,041 --> 01:14:03,083
wanted to go to undergraduate, I kind of

382
01:14:03,083 --> 01:14:06,000
had experienced a lot already. And I was

383
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:07,458
ready to dive into the

384
01:14:07,458 --> 01:14:08,916
work and to make connections.

385
01:14:09,291 --> 01:14:11,708
And and from there, I could really build

386
01:14:11,708 --> 01:14:14,166
the projects that and the connections

387
01:14:14,166 --> 01:14:17,750
that led me through to build my master's

388
01:14:17,750 --> 01:14:19,791
work and then into my PhD.

389
01:14:20,791 --> 01:14:22,833
So how I'm sure people kind of what like

390
01:14:22,833 --> 01:14:24,791
how long from like, say, when you

391
01:14:24,791 --> 01:14:27,041
graduate high school to until you

392
01:14:27,041 --> 01:14:29,000
actually started university.

393
01:14:30,041 --> 01:14:34,125
I know I I kind of lost track of time

394
01:14:34,125 --> 01:14:36,791
during this time, but it might have been

395
01:14:36,791 --> 01:14:40,125
around like four or five years. Okay. Of

396
01:14:40,125 --> 01:14:42,375
a gap year. Of a gap

397
01:14:42,375 --> 01:14:44,125
year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

398
01:14:44,375 --> 01:14:45,833
Sometimes, yeah, you just sometimes

399
01:14:45,833 --> 01:14:47,500
people and in part of us because you

400
01:14:47,500 --> 01:14:48,833
didn't really you weren't really a

401
01:14:48,833 --> 01:14:50,791
hundred other than being around the ocean

402
01:14:50,791 --> 01:14:52,916
and being in the sea. You weren't exactly

403
01:14:52,916 --> 01:14:54,958
sure which like you didn't grow up think

404
01:14:54,958 --> 01:14:55,833
like, well, I'm gonna go.

405
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:57,583
I'm gonna be like Matt Hooper from Jaws

406
01:14:57,583 --> 01:14:58,958
and go study because you grew up in New

407
01:14:58,958 --> 01:15:01,041
England grow go study Jaws or go see

408
01:15:01,041 --> 01:15:03,833
sharks. It was more of a an evolution for

409
01:15:03,833 --> 01:15:04,625
you. You knew you wanted

410
01:15:04,625 --> 01:15:05,375
to be around the ocean.

411
01:15:06,375 --> 01:15:09,375
Well, I so I did know I had an experience

412
01:15:09,375 --> 01:15:11,333
in high school and actually this connects

413
01:15:11,333 --> 01:15:13,916
back with National Geographic. The

414
01:15:13,916 --> 01:15:17,416
inspirational power of National

415
01:15:17,416 --> 01:15:20,375
Geographic in that and so this is I knew

416
01:15:20,375 --> 01:15:22,958
I wanted in high school. It was like a

417
01:15:22,958 --> 01:15:26,666
moment of seeing this incredible

418
01:15:26,666 --> 01:15:29,625
oceanographer deep sea Explorer speak at

419
01:15:29,625 --> 01:15:30,416
my school and that

420
01:15:30,416 --> 01:15:31,375
was Dr. Robert Ballard.

421
01:15:31,375 --> 01:15:34,791
I found the Titanic and many other

422
01:15:34,791 --> 01:15:37,708
amazing discoveries. He spoke at my

423
01:15:37,708 --> 01:15:39,500
school. I had the opportunity to sit

424
01:15:39,500 --> 01:15:42,083
right in front of him and just see he

425
01:15:42,083 --> 01:15:44,000
that's when he you know he was telling us

426
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,833
about how much there was to explore of

427
01:15:45,833 --> 01:15:47,708
the deep ocean and how his

428
01:15:47,708 --> 01:15:49,291
generation couldn't do it all.

429
01:15:49,375 --> 01:15:51,291
It was our generation that needed to go

430
01:15:51,291 --> 01:15:54,250
do it and that really activated me and I

431
01:15:54,250 --> 01:15:58,333
knew at that moment I was maybe 17 years

432
01:15:58,333 --> 01:16:00,708
old. I was like wow, that's what I want

433
01:16:00,708 --> 01:16:02,750
to do. That was kind of like my big pie

434
01:16:02,750 --> 01:16:06,333
in the sky goal. The trouble was I didn't

435
01:16:06,333 --> 01:16:08,791
know like how I could get there and what

436
01:16:08,791 --> 01:16:09,791
opportunities were

437
01:16:09,791 --> 01:16:11,375
really available to me.

438
01:16:11,416 --> 01:16:16,666
So that's what I want to do but what what

439
01:16:16,666 --> 01:16:19,666
are all the there were a lot of I guess

440
01:16:19,666 --> 01:16:22,166
barriers and trying to find my way how to

441
01:16:22,166 --> 01:16:24,791
how to meander the maze to get there and

442
01:16:24,791 --> 01:16:27,833
you kind of like well I can't I don't

443
01:16:27,833 --> 01:16:29,708
know how to get there now but at least I

444
01:16:29,708 --> 01:16:31,125
can dive in the ocean

445
01:16:31,125 --> 01:16:31,375
be close to the ocean.

446
01:16:31,375 --> 01:16:36,041
Be close to the you know community of

447
01:16:36,041 --> 01:16:40,083
explorers and just be in the general area

448
01:16:40,083 --> 01:16:44,291
of that so oh cool yeah that's I think

449
01:16:44,291 --> 01:16:46,250
it's interesting like in the last is

450
01:16:46,250 --> 01:16:47,583
typical a lot of people if you had

451
01:16:47,583 --> 01:16:49,208
someone that you you heard speak or

452
01:16:49,208 --> 01:16:50,625
something or that you got or that you got

453
01:16:50,625 --> 01:16:52,791
to know that had had an inspirational

454
01:16:52,791 --> 01:16:56,041
impact influence on your on your on your

455
01:16:56,041 --> 01:16:57,375
life and the direction you went there.

456
01:16:57,375 --> 01:17:03,750
So so you wound up in Hawaii and looks

457
01:17:03,750 --> 01:17:05,291
now you're in Hawaii all of a sudden lean

458
01:17:05,291 --> 01:17:06,625
it's beautiful tropical.

459
01:17:06,958 --> 01:17:10,416
I went in the Pacific and he started a

460
01:17:10,416 --> 01:17:12,333
school at this point now did you know

461
01:17:12,333 --> 01:17:14,250
like you want to do marine biology or

462
01:17:14,250 --> 01:17:17,541
were you still kind of oh for sure yeah I

463
01:17:17,541 --> 01:17:20,333
I didn't know I guess you know so I guess

464
01:17:20,333 --> 01:17:24,750
for anyone who's you know I had a

465
01:17:24,750 --> 01:17:26,375
hesitation only in that like I before I was in Hawaii.

466
01:17:26,375 --> 01:17:34,958
I had a hesitation of myself as a

467
01:17:34,958 --> 01:17:37,000
scientist I thought scientists were you

468
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:38,708
know people in a lab people are really

469
01:17:38,708 --> 01:17:42,333
good at math you know I came more from an

470
01:17:42,333 --> 01:17:44,625
arts and humanities background which is

471
01:17:44,625 --> 01:17:46,666
more this is also why I did an

472
01:17:46,666 --> 01:17:49,375
anthropology degree when I took these as

473
01:17:49,375 --> 01:17:51,500
a you know a double majors because when I

474
01:17:51,500 --> 01:17:54,250
took these anthropology classes about how

475
01:17:54,250 --> 01:17:55,250
to think like a

476
01:17:55,250 --> 01:17:55,375
cultural cultural anthropology.

477
01:17:55,416 --> 01:17:59,000
I was like this is how my mind already

478
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,583
works you know and it was the science

479
01:18:01,583 --> 01:18:04,000
side that really needed developing and at

480
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,708
first I wasn't I remember there was a

481
01:18:06,708 --> 01:18:08,291
slight hesitation and that you know

482
01:18:08,291 --> 01:18:10,416
seeing all these you know calculus and

483
01:18:10,416 --> 01:18:12,166
all these science classes I would have to

484
01:18:12,166 --> 01:18:14,000
take and wow can I really do this.

485
01:18:14,583 --> 01:18:18,208
But there were you know trusted people I

486
01:18:18,208 --> 01:18:20,791
would ask for advice and they encouraged

487
01:18:20,791 --> 01:18:23,041
me to go for it and then I and really the

488
01:18:23,041 --> 01:18:27,375
answer was that it's just a well in at

489
01:18:27,375 --> 01:18:29,958
least for it for starting school and for

490
01:18:29,958 --> 01:18:31,583
getting into the university it's really

491
01:18:31,583 --> 01:18:33,833
all about the connections that you make

492
01:18:33,833 --> 01:18:36,500
and then I had the same kind of

493
01:18:36,500 --> 01:18:38,791
hesitation questioning about when I was

494
01:18:38,791 --> 01:18:40,541
about to start my PhD like

495
01:18:40,541 --> 01:18:42,833
can I really be a doctor and.

496
01:18:43,958 --> 01:18:46,583
And the answer was from a mentor of mine

497
01:18:46,583 --> 01:18:49,375
she said that it's all about tenacity

498
01:18:49,375 --> 01:18:52,583
like it you know we can all do this it's

499
01:18:52,583 --> 01:18:54,500
not about you know what you're coming

500
01:18:54,500 --> 01:18:56,750
with as far as what you are have already

501
01:18:56,750 --> 01:18:59,375
developed or or what comes naturally it's

502
01:18:59,375 --> 01:19:01,291
about your tenacity to to

503
01:19:01,291 --> 01:19:03,791
follow through and those things.

504
01:19:04,708 --> 01:19:07,375
Well now that looking back I totally

505
01:19:07,375 --> 01:19:10,083
agree on that so I think that anybody who

506
01:19:10,083 --> 01:19:12,416
has I mean I've spoken with other people

507
01:19:12,416 --> 01:19:16,166
who are have a passion about you know

508
01:19:16,166 --> 01:19:18,416
marine conservation environmental science

509
01:19:18,416 --> 01:19:20,666
but don't necessarily have that natural

510
01:19:20,666 --> 01:19:22,791
affinity to science or also don't see

511
01:19:22,791 --> 01:19:24,375
themselves as a scientist right away.

512
01:19:24,375 --> 01:19:27,916
But just to say that don't let that stop

513
01:19:27,916 --> 01:19:29,875
you because you know through the

514
01:19:29,875 --> 01:19:32,625
education and the community you can you

515
01:19:32,625 --> 01:19:34,208
can build those skills and

516
01:19:34,208 --> 01:19:35,333
that's what it's all about.

517
01:19:44,416 --> 01:19:53,125
I'm curious when you started your

518
01:19:53,125 --> 01:19:55,166
undergraduate did you already have in

519
01:19:55,166 --> 01:19:57,875
mind you might go to a pursue a graduate

520
01:19:57,875 --> 01:20:00,291
or even a PhD or you just

521
01:20:00,291 --> 01:20:01,833
try to get through undergrad.

522
01:20:02,791 --> 01:20:05,541
No it yeah at that point it was still

523
01:20:05,541 --> 01:20:08,000
kind of like the same mindset that I had

524
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:10,291
when I was just diving I'm like this is

525
01:20:10,291 --> 01:20:12,375
good like I'm in the right place I'm in

526
01:20:12,375 --> 01:20:13,875
the ocean I'm surrounded by

527
01:20:13,875 --> 01:20:15,375
ocean people this is good.

528
01:20:15,791 --> 01:20:18,625
And then it with my undergrad I remember

529
01:20:18,625 --> 01:20:22,083
feeling like I'm in the right place you

530
01:20:22,083 --> 01:20:24,791
know what I did have what was really nice

531
01:20:24,791 --> 01:20:27,291
was towards the end as I was getting

532
01:20:27,291 --> 01:20:30,958
close to graduating there was one class a

533
01:20:30,958 --> 01:20:33,250
traditional Hawaii marine resource

534
01:20:33,250 --> 01:20:35,833
management class what's it was amazing

535
01:20:35,833 --> 01:20:39,333
and through we did we had the opportunity

536
01:20:39,333 --> 01:20:42,125
to develop projects that we could.

537
01:20:43,416 --> 01:20:48,875
You know, do with comparing some kind of

538
01:20:48,875 --> 01:20:51,458
ecology coral coral reef ecology and the

539
01:20:51,458 --> 01:20:52,666
main Hawaiian Islands and the

540
01:20:52,666 --> 01:20:54,041
Northwestern Hawaiian Islands.

541
01:20:54,500 --> 01:20:56,000
So that was the first time with that

542
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:57,458
class that I got to go to a marine

543
01:20:57,458 --> 01:20:59,583
protect a remote marine protected area up

544
01:20:59,583 --> 01:21:00,375
in the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands.

545
01:21:00,416 --> 01:21:03,583
And from that we were invited to then

546
01:21:03,583 --> 01:21:05,583
give a presentation at the Hawaii

547
01:21:05,583 --> 01:21:09,000
conservation conference and so as an

548
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,375
undergraduate I had the opportunity to

549
01:21:11,375 --> 01:21:13,791
prison to go to a conference and present

550
01:21:13,791 --> 01:21:16,791
and I remember at that conference feeling

551
01:21:16,791 --> 01:21:19,000
like you know I don't know what.

552
01:21:19,416 --> 01:21:22,541
Well, I don't know what opportunities are

553
01:21:22,541 --> 01:21:25,750
going to come but I know that as long as

554
01:21:25,750 --> 01:21:29,291
I keep going to conferences like this,

555
01:21:29,291 --> 01:21:31,125
I'll be in the right place as long as I'm

556
01:21:31,125 --> 01:21:33,708
still around these people talking about

557
01:21:33,708 --> 01:21:37,500
these things, then that is the right

558
01:21:37,500 --> 01:21:39,958
place for me so it was kind of more like

559
01:21:39,958 --> 01:21:42,875
just being in the in the right place for

560
01:21:42,875 --> 01:21:44,375
that time and I didn't.

561
01:21:44,375 --> 01:21:48,666
And so it hadn't yet occurred to me to do

562
01:21:48,666 --> 01:21:51,875
even a masters until my.

563
01:22:10,166 --> 01:22:14,500
And so I guess when that project

564
01:22:14,500 --> 01:22:17,291
presented itself, that's when I knew

565
01:22:17,291 --> 01:22:18,791
like, yeah, this is it.

566
01:22:20,458 --> 01:22:23,833
Yeah, go for it. He spent the time in

567
01:22:23,833 --> 01:22:26,750
Chile for knows that part of your

568
01:22:26,750 --> 01:22:28,625
undergraduate programmer.

569
01:22:29,375 --> 01:22:32,041
Yeah, that was during undergraduate. So I

570
01:22:32,041 --> 01:22:34,041
think there was a yeah there was a part

571
01:22:34,041 --> 01:22:37,166
of my undergraduate where I was still

572
01:22:37,166 --> 01:22:40,250
very much, you know, wanting to explore

573
01:22:40,250 --> 01:22:42,500
the wider world or just seeing like the

574
01:22:42,500 --> 01:22:44,625
wider opportunities that I could

575
01:22:44,625 --> 01:22:47,500
participate in that were available

576
01:22:47,500 --> 01:22:48,375
through the university.

577
01:22:48,375 --> 01:22:51,416
I love the Spanish language and I wanted

578
01:22:51,416 --> 01:22:54,416
to experience other cultures I have since

579
01:22:54,416 --> 01:22:57,625
I was young and so I saw that opportunity

580
01:22:57,625 --> 01:23:01,333
to do a semester in Chile and being a Del

581
01:23:01,333 --> 01:23:04,375
Mar and that was yeah, it was wonderful.

582
01:23:04,416 --> 01:23:08,500
It was exploring all around South America

583
01:23:08,500 --> 01:23:11,833
and making friends and just experiencing

584
01:23:11,833 --> 01:23:15,583
another culture. So that has been very

585
01:23:15,583 --> 01:23:18,333
helpful actually to now with my travels

586
01:23:18,333 --> 01:23:20,541
around the world is to have at least one

587
01:23:20,541 --> 01:23:22,500
other language background that helps me

588
01:23:22,500 --> 01:23:24,916
kind of navigate through similar

589
01:23:24,916 --> 01:23:25,375
different languages.

590
01:23:25,416 --> 01:23:28,500
I can kind of understand other romance

591
01:23:28,500 --> 01:23:31,541
languages, but my speaking has has kind

592
01:23:31,541 --> 01:23:33,833
of not I haven't kept that up as well.

593
01:23:33,833 --> 01:23:35,708
Probably in Hawaii. It's not such it not

594
01:23:35,708 --> 01:23:37,083
as good a place like if you're in

595
01:23:37,083 --> 01:23:39,041
California would not be a problem at all.

596
01:23:39,041 --> 01:23:39,958
Yeah, you'd be doing

597
01:23:39,958 --> 01:23:41,708
great. You'd be in great here.

598
01:23:41,750 --> 01:23:44,250
So what other countries did you get?

599
01:23:44,250 --> 01:23:45,583
Would you explore when you're in when

600
01:23:45,583 --> 01:23:49,291
you're in South America? Besides we would

601
01:23:49,291 --> 01:23:50,833
go to Argentina a

602
01:23:50,833 --> 01:23:52,916
bunch of back and forth.

603
01:23:54,375 --> 01:23:56,041
Wasn't your undergrad. I got to go to New

604
01:23:56,041 --> 01:23:57,958
Brunswick in my undergrad. That's not at

605
01:23:57,958 --> 01:24:03,333
all. What's going on here? Yeah, well, we

606
01:24:03,333 --> 01:24:05,500
did so we discovered the bus system in

607
01:24:05,500 --> 01:24:07,916
South America and we just take these long

608
01:24:07,916 --> 01:24:11,291
bus rides all up and down the Chile

609
01:24:11,291 --> 01:24:13,166
coast. So all up to Bolivia

610
01:24:13,166 --> 01:24:17,833
and Peru and yeah, Argentina.

611
01:24:18,375 --> 01:24:19,625
I think those were the main ones, but

612
01:24:19,625 --> 01:24:21,458
some of it like we found a place that we

613
01:24:21,458 --> 01:24:23,625
like like the Atacama desert and we just

614
01:24:23,625 --> 01:24:27,333
keep going there and nice. Oh, yeah. How

615
01:24:27,333 --> 01:24:29,125
long were they just a semester or do you

616
01:24:29,125 --> 01:24:32,333
stay longer? That was that was one

617
01:24:32,333 --> 01:24:34,583
semester of the course. I stayed a little

618
01:24:34,583 --> 01:24:36,625
bit extra because we had the opportunity

619
01:24:36,625 --> 01:24:39,166
to do some backcountry hiking in

620
01:24:39,166 --> 01:24:42,250
Patagonia. So okay. Oh, awesome. Yeah.

621
01:24:42,416 --> 01:24:44,250
Yeah. Well, while you're there, you might

622
01:24:44,250 --> 01:24:46,000
as well as well. Yeah.

623
01:24:46,375 --> 01:24:48,916
So this is like this was an option in

624
01:24:48,916 --> 01:24:51,333
your program. Like you could do like a

625
01:24:51,333 --> 01:24:55,000
semester away. It's such a do you find

626
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:56,916
like this is a lot of other students in

627
01:24:56,916 --> 01:24:59,250
your program take advantage of this like

628
01:24:59,250 --> 01:25:01,041
to do this type of thing or was this

629
01:25:01,041 --> 01:25:03,041
something that you decided to do maybe

630
01:25:03,041 --> 01:25:04,333
with a couple of friends or even just on

631
01:25:04,333 --> 01:25:06,125
your own because I don't hear people

632
01:25:06,125 --> 01:25:09,333
going on these types of semesters away as

633
01:25:09,333 --> 01:25:12,875
much as as a as I thought people would I

634
01:25:12,875 --> 01:25:13,500
guess it's expensive

635
01:25:13,500 --> 01:25:14,833
too. I'm sure but still.

636
01:25:15,666 --> 01:25:18,166
Yeah, well at that point I was just like

637
01:25:18,166 --> 01:25:21,333
as far as the expense of I was just

638
01:25:21,333 --> 01:25:24,166
borrow, you know, I was you need to as a

639
01:25:24,166 --> 01:25:26,458
student you're borrowing money anyway. So

640
01:25:26,458 --> 01:25:29,875
I might as well borrow and go hell. Yeah.

641
01:25:30,750 --> 01:25:32,791
Yeah. I want to add on to it because you

642
01:25:32,791 --> 01:25:35,083
gotta live your experience. Yeah. Yeah.

643
01:25:35,083 --> 01:25:38,000
Yeah. Yeah. So but you're right. No,

644
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:39,500
there was especially within the marine

645
01:25:39,500 --> 01:25:41,291
science program. There certainly wasn't

646
01:25:41,291 --> 01:25:43,333
anybody else. Um I so I

647
01:25:43,333 --> 01:25:44,375
took a lot of extra classes.

648
01:25:44,375 --> 01:25:49,041
During my undergrad, I would like get I

649
01:25:49,041 --> 01:25:51,291
would go to the registrar's office and

650
01:25:51,291 --> 01:25:53,708
have them sign off to allow me to take

651
01:25:53,708 --> 01:25:56,625
all these to like overload myself by a

652
01:25:56,625 --> 01:25:58,791
lot which you need sign off and they're

653
01:25:58,791 --> 01:25:59,875
like, what are you? Are you trying to

654
01:25:59,875 --> 01:26:01,541
graduate fast? I'm like, no, I already

655
01:26:01,541 --> 01:26:03,458
have all my credits. I'm just really

656
01:26:03,458 --> 01:26:05,958
interested in all these like all these

657
01:26:05,958 --> 01:26:08,250
classes are available. So this is what

658
01:26:08,250 --> 01:26:10,916
happens when you are when you are away

659
01:26:10,916 --> 01:26:12,916
from school for a while then you really

660
01:26:12,916 --> 01:26:13,375
appreciate what these classes are.

661
01:26:13,375 --> 01:26:21,458
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're not just going

662
01:26:21,458 --> 01:26:23,583
through the motions anymore. You're

663
01:26:23,583 --> 01:26:25,125
actually, you really want to go back and

664
01:26:25,125 --> 01:26:27,958
learn. Yeah. Yeah. It's an important

665
01:26:27,958 --> 01:26:30,250
lesson that people listen to young people

666
01:26:30,250 --> 01:26:31,708
listening at the time you took off really

667
01:26:31,708 --> 01:26:34,250
benefited you later on when you went back

668
01:26:34,250 --> 01:26:35,791
to school because you really appreciated

669
01:26:35,791 --> 01:26:36,375
it and then taking a lot of the different different courses.

670
01:26:36,375 --> 01:26:40,791
And so, did you know when you were doing

671
01:26:40,791 --> 01:26:44,875
your undergraduate, did you um were you

672
01:26:44,875 --> 01:26:46,833
doing any diving instructing or were you

673
01:26:46,833 --> 01:26:50,541
doing any? Oh, yeah, I did. I did both.

674
01:26:50,833 --> 01:26:53,458
II started off doing diving and

675
01:26:53,458 --> 01:26:55,541
instructing for the other students

676
01:26:55,541 --> 01:26:57,208
because I was like, hey, I'm an

677
01:26:57,208 --> 01:27:00,166
instructor who wants to learn and uh so

678
01:27:00,166 --> 01:27:02,458
II, it was really fun. I got to, you

679
01:27:02,458 --> 01:27:04,250
know, run it through the university and

680
01:27:04,250 --> 01:27:05,375
I'd have these big classes and I'd have a lot of fun.

681
01:27:05,416 --> 01:27:07,291
Yeah. I didn't really, I didn't do

682
01:27:07,291 --> 01:27:07,958
classes and I wasn't trying to make money

683
01:27:07,958 --> 01:27:10,000
off of it. I just wanted to do it so we

684
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:12,041
could have all these people and it was a

685
01:27:12,041 --> 01:27:14,041
lot of fun but it was a lot to work and

686
01:27:14,041 --> 01:27:17,000
it was also really stressed. It was also

687
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:18,791
very kind of stressful because all of a

688
01:27:18,791 --> 01:27:20,083
sudden I'm like responsible for

689
01:27:20,083 --> 01:27:23,791
everyone's safety and everything and and

690
01:27:23,791 --> 01:27:26,375
so what happened with that is the first

691
01:27:26,375 --> 01:27:28,750
time I had some friends who are like,

692
01:27:28,750 --> 01:27:30,916
hey, we're you know, uh were these

693
01:27:30,916 --> 01:27:31,375
research divers on this project. Do you want to join and I'll probably go through a whole lot of stuff that we do.

694
01:27:31,375 --> 01:27:34,416
divers on this project do you want to

695
01:27:34,416 --> 01:27:36,875
join? And I remember going on the first

696
01:27:36,875 --> 01:27:39,708
research dive with my two friends and I

697
01:27:39,708 --> 01:27:41,875
it was just the three of us and we are

698
01:27:41,875 --> 01:27:44,041
just out diving doing our thing and I

699
01:27:44,041 --> 01:27:47,000
thought this is better and so I have

700
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,541
only ever done research diving since then

701
01:27:49,541 --> 01:27:51,916
so I really like research diving.

702
01:27:52,333 --> 01:27:54,875
Yeah we were able to work much diving

703
01:27:54,875 --> 01:27:58,458
into your thesis project at all? Yeah it

704
01:27:58,458 --> 01:28:01,333
was all it was the bulk of it was diving

705
01:28:01,333 --> 01:28:04,375
we did a five-year predator

706
01:28:04,375 --> 01:28:07,291
removal experiment on patch reefs on the

707
01:28:07,291 --> 01:28:09,958
Kona coast of Hawaii so the

708
01:28:10,083 --> 01:28:14,000
beautiful Kona side and so the question

709
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:17,375
for that were there's these groupers

710
01:28:17,375 --> 01:28:20,208
that had been introduced in the 50s that

711
01:28:20,208 --> 01:28:23,250
have in order to be a food fish but

712
01:28:23,250 --> 01:28:25,291
unfortunately they have saguatera which

713
01:28:25,291 --> 01:28:28,291
is a toxin and so people don't eat them

714
01:28:28,333 --> 01:28:30,500
and they don't like them and so the

715
01:28:30,500 --> 01:28:32,625
question was what are the impact of this

716
01:28:32,625 --> 01:28:35,291
introduced species and so in a

717
01:28:35,291 --> 01:28:36,500
collaboration with the Nature

718
01:28:36,583 --> 01:28:39,041
Conservancy we did a five-year predator

719
01:28:39,041 --> 01:28:41,583
removal experiment on these patch reefs

720
01:28:41,583 --> 01:28:43,541
where with local fishermen who are

721
01:28:43,541 --> 01:28:46,125
involved we fished down one reef and

722
01:28:46,125 --> 01:28:48,666
then monitored the reef over a period of

723
01:28:48,666 --> 01:28:50,875
the next four years to see you know

724
01:28:50,875 --> 01:28:52,625
what were the impacts on the native fish

725
01:28:52,625 --> 01:28:54,500
assemblage so it was a management

726
01:28:54,541 --> 01:28:56,083
question that the community was

727
01:28:56,083 --> 01:28:58,541
interested in as well and it had us had

728
01:28:58,541 --> 01:29:03,166
me you know in the water regularly and I

729
01:29:03,166 --> 01:29:05,958
got to dive on that for my thesis and

730
01:29:05,958 --> 01:29:09,333
also had I was kind of like the fish

731
01:29:09,333 --> 01:29:11,958
diver that people would call if they

732
01:29:11,958 --> 01:29:14,000
needed help with fish diving so that that

733
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:15,500
was like the division of aquatic

734
01:29:15,541 --> 01:29:18,916
resources I got to work with them and

735
01:29:18,916 --> 01:29:21,500
then they through that they I guess my

736
01:29:21,541 --> 01:29:24,416
name was kind of given over to Noah who

737
01:29:24,416 --> 01:29:27,625
needed fish divers for their you know

738
01:29:27,625 --> 01:29:31,208
Pacific wide campaigns monitoring reefs

739
01:29:31,208 --> 01:29:32,750
throughout the Pacific so spending

740
01:29:32,833 --> 01:29:36,166
months at sea diving with Noah so that's

741
01:29:36,166 --> 01:29:38,125
when I really fell in love with

742
01:29:38,125 --> 01:29:40,250
just being out on being with that

743
01:29:40,250 --> 01:29:43,250
community of awesome scientists out on

744
01:29:43,250 --> 01:29:45,791
a ship just diving every day in the water

745
01:29:45,791 --> 01:29:47,375
every day it just goes to show I

746
01:29:47,375 --> 01:29:49,041
think Dave you mentioned this earlier but

747
01:29:49,041 --> 01:29:51,583
you know about having that one skill

748
01:29:51,583 --> 01:29:53,541
that one skill allowed you to network not

749
01:29:53,541 --> 01:29:55,291
only to participate in all these

750
01:29:55,291 --> 01:29:57,833
things but allowed you to participate in

751
01:29:57,833 --> 01:29:59,750
the research but also network with all

752
01:29:59,750 --> 01:30:01,041
the people who were working as you

753
01:30:01,041 --> 01:30:03,041
mentioned like I got out to meet all

754
01:30:03,041 --> 01:30:04,791
these really cool scientists and doing

755
01:30:04,791 --> 01:30:06,291
all that work that must have helped you

756
01:30:06,291 --> 01:30:09,666
later on in in your career yeah

757
01:30:09,666 --> 01:30:11,875
absolutely and that's another thing

758
01:30:11,916 --> 01:30:14,583
about the University of Hawaii Hilo that

759
01:30:14,583 --> 01:30:17,875
small you know relatively small

760
01:30:17,916 --> 01:30:20,958
college and close connection with the

761
01:30:20,958 --> 01:30:23,000
professors there they have this course

762
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:26,125
called quest quantitative underwater

763
01:30:26,125 --> 01:30:29,666
ecological surveying techniques where you

764
01:30:29,666 --> 01:30:32,250
go and you can't it's like again you're

765
01:30:32,250 --> 01:30:34,041
getting school credit you go and you

766
01:30:34,041 --> 01:30:36,791
camp out on the beach on the Kona side

767
01:30:36,791 --> 01:30:39,666
for I think it's like two weeks and you

768
01:30:39,708 --> 01:30:42,333
get you you through it you become a

769
01:30:42,333 --> 01:30:43,833
scientific diver you get that

770
01:30:43,833 --> 01:30:46,666
certification of and you learn all the

771
01:30:46,666 --> 01:30:48,583
you know fish counts and the benthic

772
01:30:48,583 --> 01:30:50,250
counts all the different techniques you

773
01:30:50,250 --> 01:30:52,708
would use you even learn and I was kind

774
01:30:52,708 --> 01:30:55,125
of actually my first real introduction to

775
01:30:55,125 --> 01:30:59,291
statistics and you know entering data

776
01:30:59,291 --> 01:31:01,458
and analyzing it all in the field

777
01:31:01,458 --> 01:31:03,750
presenting it so it's a really amazing

778
01:31:03,750 --> 01:31:06,833
experience like class in the field that

779
01:31:06,833 --> 01:31:09,041
you come out with your scientific diver

780
01:31:09,083 --> 01:31:11,708
and then with that certification that's

781
01:31:11,708 --> 01:31:13,208
what really opened up yeah all

782
01:31:13,208 --> 01:31:15,000
those opportunities with our with

783
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:19,250
different projects with Noah yeah that's

784
01:31:19,250 --> 01:31:21,125
an amazing so when you're did you when

785
01:31:21,125 --> 01:31:23,375
you're at Hilo you because of all this

786
01:31:23,375 --> 01:31:25,166
stuff is how is that that kind of led you

787
01:31:25,166 --> 01:31:28,333
to move over to the Oahu for your for

788
01:31:28,333 --> 01:31:33,375
your PhD work yeah yeah so Hilo was that

789
01:31:33,375 --> 01:31:36,666
they offer the master's degree through

790
01:31:36,750 --> 01:31:40,500
the is the the highest you could go and

791
01:31:40,500 --> 01:31:43,208
so in order to go further I needed to

792
01:31:43,208 --> 01:31:46,416
move over to Oahu so I was a little bit

793
01:31:46,416 --> 01:31:48,333
anxious at first about moving from the

794
01:31:48,333 --> 01:31:50,375
country to the big city but I actually

795
01:31:50,375 --> 01:31:53,833
love it here so it's been great yeah yeah

796
01:31:53,833 --> 01:31:55,791
yeah so now when you got over there how

797
01:31:55,791 --> 01:31:57,791
did this whole thing come about like with

798
01:31:57,791 --> 01:32:01,416
your PhD student you seem like you got

799
01:32:01,416 --> 01:32:03,291
you're able to get on with Noah and do a

800
01:32:03,291 --> 01:32:04,208
lot of things because of your diving skills how did the whole thing with Noah was

801
01:32:04,250 --> 01:32:06,416
diving skills how did the whole thing

802
01:32:06,416 --> 01:32:09,708
with National Geographic come up so this

803
01:32:09,708 --> 01:32:13,458
came up through so my advisor Alan

804
01:32:13,458 --> 01:32:17,083
Friedlander was a chief scientist for the

805
01:32:17,083 --> 01:32:18,791
National Geographic pristine sees

806
01:32:18,791 --> 01:32:22,666
expeditions at the time so my advisor was

807
01:32:22,666 --> 01:32:25,083
going out on all these adventures he was

808
01:32:25,083 --> 01:32:27,375
you know he you know he was out at sea

809
01:32:27,375 --> 01:32:30,208
going to all these amazing places and we

810
01:32:30,208 --> 01:32:32,416
would see him every once in a while and

811
01:32:32,416 --> 01:32:34,208
when he came back and he came back and he was going to be a

812
01:32:34,250 --> 01:32:38,250
he came back with a kind of a question

813
01:32:38,250 --> 01:32:41,666
for me and that he the National

814
01:32:41,666 --> 01:32:45,250
Geographic had was starting to use these

815
01:32:45,250 --> 01:32:47,750
deep sea cameras more they had just

816
01:32:47,750 --> 01:32:51,125
developed well the first iterations were

817
01:32:51,125 --> 01:32:54,041
developed in 2009 they had just recently

818
01:32:54,041 --> 01:32:57,625
made them smaller and more usable so they

819
01:32:57,625 --> 01:32:59,250
were using more and he was coming back

820
01:32:59,250 --> 01:33:02,291
with these hard drives full of deep sea

821
01:33:02,291 --> 01:33:04,208
data that he didn't have time to use it

822
01:33:04,250 --> 01:33:07,458
to deal with and so he had me handed me

823
01:33:07,458 --> 01:33:09,416
these hard drives and said here can you

824
01:33:09,416 --> 01:33:11,916
figure this out and so that was kind of

825
01:33:11,916 --> 01:33:15,625
like a side project for me to that was my

826
01:33:15,625 --> 01:33:17,416
introduction to the deep sea was going

827
01:33:17,416 --> 01:33:19,333
through this video footage and being like

828
01:33:19,333 --> 01:33:22,875
what's going on in here you know actually

829
01:33:22,875 --> 01:33:25,291
why I remember going into his office when

830
01:33:25,291 --> 01:33:27,083
we were first started talking about you

831
01:33:27,083 --> 01:33:28,791
know me taking on that work and the

832
01:33:28,791 --> 01:33:31,000
project and he we were looking at the

833
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:32,291
hard drives and what we

834
01:33:32,291 --> 01:33:34,041
were looking at was the clipper

835
01:33:34,250 --> 01:33:34,500
And you also had this nigra directing

836
01:33:34,500 --> 01:33:38,416
hotzen footage of the East Pacific ghost

837
01:33:38,416 --> 01:33:42,041
shark that aggregation that you and I

838
01:33:42,041 --> 01:33:43,291
ended up because you're the one who was

839
01:33:43,291 --> 01:33:44,291
like hey this is kind of

840
01:33:44,291 --> 01:33:45,583
cool we should write a paper

841
01:33:45,583 --> 01:33:48,875
Of the item I remember that was the first

842
01:33:48,875 --> 01:33:51,208
thing I saw looking at the hard guys was

843
01:33:51,208 --> 01:33:53,291
just like what is going on here what are

844
01:33:53,291 --> 01:33:55,250
these things and like their

845
01:33:55,250 --> 01:33:58,708
yeah so it kind of drew me in

846
01:34:01,166 --> 01:34:01,708
you're telling that

847
01:34:01,708 --> 01:34:03,541
story because so many times

848
01:34:03,708 --> 01:34:06,375
people like yourself come into possession

849
01:34:06,666 --> 01:34:08,416
of stuff like that and

850
01:34:08,416 --> 01:34:09,250
where someone like me

851
01:34:09,625 --> 01:34:11,375
would love to see something like that

852
01:34:11,375 --> 01:34:11,791
and they're just,

853
01:34:12,291 --> 01:34:13,500
fortunately for you and I,

854
01:34:13,500 --> 01:34:15,166
we kind of crossed paths and it was like,

855
01:34:15,333 --> 01:34:16,375
hey, what's this stuff here?

856
01:34:16,375 --> 01:34:17,833
And like, oh geez, that's really awesome.

857
01:34:18,333 --> 01:34:18,583
Yeah.

858
01:34:19,666 --> 01:34:19,750
(laughing)

859
01:34:20,041 --> 01:34:21,833
You know, otherwise it just sits

860
01:34:21,833 --> 01:34:23,416
and nothing ever happens with it.

861
01:34:23,666 --> 01:34:25,208
Yeah, otherwise if I

862
01:34:25,208 --> 01:34:26,583
couldn't have asked you

863
01:34:26,625 --> 01:34:27,958
and you have that

864
01:34:27,958 --> 01:34:29,291
insight, otherwise it'd be like,

865
01:34:29,291 --> 01:34:30,958
oh no, like this is terrible.

866
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:32,000
I can't figure this out,

867
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:33,166
I don't know what it is.

868
01:34:33,166 --> 01:34:34,458
And it will just remain in

869
01:34:34,458 --> 01:34:35,875
obscurity and just be like,

870
01:34:35,875 --> 01:34:39,083
I'm terrible at this identifying thing.

871
01:34:39,875 --> 01:34:40,958
Yeah, oh yeah, and that was,

872
01:34:41,416 --> 01:34:42,416
so you're going through

873
01:34:42,416 --> 01:34:43,291
all of this stuff here.

874
01:34:43,833 --> 01:34:45,375
At what point did you

875
01:34:45,375 --> 01:34:48,791
develop any interest

876
01:34:48,791 --> 01:34:49,583
or was it just part

877
01:34:49,583 --> 01:34:50,791
of the job you're doing

878
01:34:50,791 --> 01:34:53,041
as far as sharks and go sharks and rays?

879
01:34:53,291 --> 01:34:54,666
Did that, is there any

880
01:34:54,666 --> 01:34:55,791
point like, it's like, wow,

881
01:34:55,791 --> 01:34:56,583
these are kind of cool,

882
01:34:56,791 --> 01:34:57,916
the kind of the Cadillac of

883
01:34:57,916 --> 01:34:58,916
fishes out here, the sharks.

884
01:35:00,625 --> 01:35:01,166
Yeah, I guess the--

885
01:35:01,208 --> 01:35:03,083
Cadillac of fishes, I love it.

886
01:35:04,583 --> 01:35:05,791
Yeah, that's a great description.

887
01:35:07,541 --> 01:35:08,291
There's kind of two

888
01:35:08,291 --> 01:35:09,916
sides to the story, I guess,

889
01:35:10,666 --> 01:35:11,833
based on my previous

890
01:35:11,833 --> 01:35:13,666
experience of diving a lot

891
01:35:13,666 --> 01:35:15,291
and just being in the water,

892
01:35:15,625 --> 01:35:16,791
I've had the most

893
01:35:16,791 --> 01:35:19,958
experience and the most connection

894
01:35:20,375 --> 01:35:21,875
to sharks from being in

895
01:35:21,875 --> 01:35:23,083
the water from diving,

896
01:35:23,500 --> 01:35:24,958
especially the hammerhead sharks.

897
01:35:25,708 --> 01:35:31,208
I was, for a period of time,

898
01:35:31,583 --> 01:35:33,291
actually in the middle of my undergrad,

899
01:35:33,958 --> 01:35:37,750
I went for a summer job working on this,

900
01:35:38,416 --> 01:35:39,416
on a live aboard dive

901
01:35:39,416 --> 01:35:40,958
boat off of Kona, Hawaii.

902
01:35:41,458 --> 01:35:42,916
It turned out to be a year and a half

903
01:35:42,916 --> 01:35:44,541
because I was having such a good time,

904
01:35:44,541 --> 01:35:46,500
but then I did go back to

905
01:35:46,500 --> 01:35:47,791
school once I felt ready.

906
01:35:48,291 --> 01:35:49,375
But during that time,

907
01:35:49,375 --> 01:35:51,125
there was this one dive site

908
01:35:51,208 --> 01:35:52,416
that we would go to

909
01:35:52,416 --> 01:35:53,583
just about every week.

910
01:35:53,625 --> 01:35:55,666
And what I found was that,

911
01:35:56,416 --> 01:36:00,041
so how we would hook up to the mooring

912
01:36:00,041 --> 01:36:01,875
is we'd send a diver in and

913
01:36:01,875 --> 01:36:03,000
they'd go down to the mooring

914
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:04,375
and we'd send a line down,

915
01:36:04,375 --> 01:36:05,916
the diver would hook up the mooring.

916
01:36:05,916 --> 01:36:07,041
And for our morning sites,

917
01:36:07,041 --> 01:36:08,458
this was very early in the morning.

918
01:36:08,833 --> 01:36:09,791
And at this one particular

919
01:36:09,791 --> 01:36:11,333
site, when I'd go down there,

920
01:36:11,625 --> 01:36:13,958
there would be one hammerhead cruising by

921
01:36:14,250 --> 01:36:15,041
and I would see that

922
01:36:15,041 --> 01:36:16,666
hammerhead every time I was there.

923
01:36:16,916 --> 01:36:17,958
I would come up and I

924
01:36:17,958 --> 01:36:18,875
would tell everybody,

925
01:36:18,875 --> 01:36:20,833
"There's a hammerhead, it's so exciting,

926
01:36:20,833 --> 01:36:22,125
you guys are gonna see this hammerhead."

927
01:36:22,125 --> 01:36:23,125
And they'd get all excited,

928
01:36:23,541 --> 01:36:25,291
but nobody else would see it.

929
01:36:26,041 --> 01:36:27,000
So after a while, I

930
01:36:27,000 --> 01:36:28,458
learned not to tell them

931
01:36:28,791 --> 01:36:30,500
so that they wouldn't be disappointed.

932
01:36:31,833 --> 01:36:33,708
But I still insisted that I

933
01:36:33,708 --> 01:36:34,875
would be the one to go down

934
01:36:34,875 --> 01:36:36,458
and hook up at that particular site.

935
01:36:36,666 --> 01:36:37,583
So then it just became

936
01:36:37,583 --> 01:36:40,208
like my, kind of like a secret

937
01:36:41,291 --> 01:36:43,291
of this one hammerhead

938
01:36:43,291 --> 01:36:44,791
that I would see every time.

939
01:36:44,791 --> 01:36:46,000
So that was like my first,

940
01:36:46,250 --> 01:36:46,958
really personal

941
01:36:46,958 --> 01:36:48,625
connection to an ocean animal.

942
01:36:49,833 --> 01:36:50,791
And then I also had

943
01:36:50,791 --> 01:36:52,500
the experience of diving,

944
01:36:52,666 --> 01:36:54,916
again, through working for that live at

945
01:36:54,916 --> 01:36:55,958
board dive boat company,

946
01:36:55,958 --> 01:36:58,458
we could dive on any of the

947
01:36:58,458 --> 01:37:00,166
boats in the world for free

948
01:37:00,916 --> 01:37:02,166
during our time off.

949
01:37:02,166 --> 01:37:03,833
And so I would go, I went to the

950
01:37:03,833 --> 01:37:06,166
Galapagos and to Cocos Island.

951
01:37:06,791 --> 01:37:08,083
And there you can just dive

952
01:37:08,083 --> 01:37:09,875
with the schools of hundreds

953
01:37:09,875 --> 01:37:11,375
and hundreds of hammerhead sharks.

954
01:37:12,041 --> 01:37:14,250
So those sharks really had an impact on

955
01:37:14,250 --> 01:37:16,125
me in that I just felt,

956
01:37:16,833 --> 01:37:17,625
they're just awesome.

957
01:37:17,833 --> 01:37:20,875
So I loved sharks, you know, through my

958
01:37:20,875 --> 01:37:22,125
experience in the water.

959
01:37:22,625 --> 01:37:24,625
But, you know, it's funny that you ask

960
01:37:24,625 --> 01:37:26,250
about, you know, through my work

961
01:37:26,250 --> 01:37:28,166
and when did I realize that

962
01:37:28,166 --> 01:37:30,333
of, you know, that the hammer,

963
01:37:31,083 --> 01:37:31,916
the sharks are the

964
01:37:31,916 --> 01:37:33,958
Cadillac of the fishes.

965
01:37:34,291 --> 01:37:36,708
And it's because of the cameras that we

966
01:37:36,708 --> 01:37:38,041
use, these deep sea cameras

967
01:37:38,166 --> 01:37:40,291
that the National Geographic Exploration

968
01:37:40,291 --> 01:37:41,708
Technology Lab developed

969
01:37:41,791 --> 01:37:43,833
that we send down to the,

970
01:37:43,833 --> 01:37:45,625
they do benthic surveys,

971
01:37:46,250 --> 01:37:48,083
stationary benthic surveys of the deep

972
01:37:48,083 --> 01:37:50,750
sea floor for biodiversity.

973
01:37:53,125 --> 01:37:54,541
Mega fauna. So, but

974
01:37:54,541 --> 01:37:56,291
they're, they're baited.

975
01:37:56,625 --> 01:37:58,791
And so they attract the, you know, the

976
01:37:58,791 --> 01:38:00,791
predators, the scavengers that come in.

977
01:38:01,291 --> 01:38:03,291
And so after, you know, years of doing

978
01:38:03,291 --> 01:38:06,458
this, I've just noticed that, like, every

979
01:38:06,458 --> 01:38:09,750
single exciting discovery,

980
01:38:10,125 --> 01:38:12,666
that every single exciting observation

981
01:38:12,666 --> 01:38:15,000
we've made has, it's been sharks,

982
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:16,833
like sharks are the star of the show.

983
01:38:17,125 --> 01:38:18,916
They're, they're the big excitement.

984
01:38:18,916 --> 01:38:20,541
That's what it lights me up.

985
01:38:20,583 --> 01:38:22,458
It's what everybody gets excited about.

986
01:38:22,833 --> 01:38:25,541
So that's really kind of turned my, my

987
01:38:25,541 --> 01:38:27,416
attention to just, you

988
01:38:27,416 --> 01:38:28,625
know, sharks in general

989
01:38:28,750 --> 01:38:31,000
and especially the deep sea sharks.

990
01:38:31,416 --> 01:38:34,833
And the other, I guess the

991
01:38:34,833 --> 01:38:36,916
other part of that is, you know,

992
01:38:36,916 --> 01:38:39,000
when we would have these observations and

993
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:40,833
so, for example, like

994
01:38:40,833 --> 01:38:42,291
the Pacific sleeper shark

995
01:38:42,291 --> 01:38:45,791
in Palau with low closets, again, that

996
01:38:45,791 --> 01:38:47,000
was sort of like a,

997
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:48,291
when it first happened,

998
01:38:48,375 --> 01:38:50,125
we saw this shark and we're like, wait,

999
01:38:50,125 --> 01:38:52,583
what, why is this, why is this here?

1000
01:38:52,583 --> 01:38:54,750
This doesn't make any sense. And at first

1001
01:38:54,750 --> 01:38:56,708
you just think like, oh, I'm really bad

1002
01:38:56,708 --> 01:38:58,291
at, at ideaing things.

1003
01:38:58,541 --> 01:39:01,333
But then being able to ask you, Dave, you

1004
01:39:01,333 --> 01:39:03,208
know, hey, what do you think?

1005
01:39:03,500 --> 01:39:05,791
And then I remember your response. It

1006
01:39:05,791 --> 01:39:08,583
wasn't just like, it wasn't just the

1007
01:39:08,583 --> 01:39:10,291
data, like, oh, it's a range extension.

1008
01:39:10,916 --> 01:39:14,208
It was, hey, this is, you know, it's

1009
01:39:14,208 --> 01:39:15,416
likely a range extension.

1010
01:39:15,750 --> 01:39:17,875
And but you also had a story behind it

1011
01:39:17,875 --> 01:39:20,291
that you had worked, you had worked with

1012
01:39:20,291 --> 01:39:22,916
the Pacific sleeper shark in your career

1013
01:39:22,916 --> 01:39:25,000
and it had specific meaning to you.

1014
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:27,583
And I remember just feeling like, and

1015
01:39:27,583 --> 01:39:29,125
it's kind of similar like that through

1016
01:39:29,125 --> 01:39:30,416
all the shark species that

1017
01:39:30,416 --> 01:39:32,041
we see in their observations,

1018
01:39:32,041 --> 01:39:33,625
as they all kind of like have a

1019
01:39:33,625 --> 01:39:35,333
significance and a meaning

1020
01:39:35,333 --> 01:39:36,916
and they have their own story.

1021
01:39:37,125 --> 01:39:39,583
And so I, when, when a shark shows up, I

1022
01:39:39,583 --> 01:39:41,458
like to kind of, that just

1023
01:39:41,458 --> 01:39:42,833
happens to pass by our camera.

1024
01:39:43,333 --> 01:39:45,458
And then I get to learn about that shark.

1025
01:39:45,458 --> 01:39:47,250
It's life history and what's going on.

1026
01:39:47,250 --> 01:39:48,458
So they just teach me so

1027
01:39:48,458 --> 01:39:51,166
much. And I, I really like that.

1028
01:39:51,541 --> 01:39:54,083
I got to ask, I haven't really talked to

1029
01:39:54,083 --> 01:39:55,208
you about this, but like, how did on

1030
01:39:55,208 --> 01:39:57,541
this, on this Pacific sleeper shark from

1031
01:39:57,541 --> 01:39:59,875
Palau, how did you happen to get to know

1032
01:39:59,875 --> 01:40:02,041
low, low closets there? Who is?

1033
01:40:02,500 --> 01:40:06,083
Oh, yeah. So low. That was the first year

1034
01:40:06,083 --> 01:40:08,250
that we ran the deep sea collaboration

1035
01:40:08,250 --> 01:40:10,541
opportunities through the

1036
01:40:10,541 --> 01:40:12,208
exploration technology lab.

1037
01:40:12,291 --> 01:40:14,541
So that represented kind of a shift in

1038
01:40:14,541 --> 01:40:18,083
focus where a prior the society and the

1039
01:40:18,083 --> 01:40:20,791
lab with the deep sea work, we were kind

1040
01:40:20,791 --> 01:40:23,291
of, you know, doing different

1041
01:40:23,291 --> 01:40:26,625
collaborations or sort of ad hoc in terms

1042
01:40:26,625 --> 01:40:28,375
of who had access to the cameras.

1043
01:40:28,833 --> 01:40:32,291
And particularly there, Christine sees

1044
01:40:32,291 --> 01:40:35,333
was the group that got to

1045
01:40:35,333 --> 01:40:36,458
use the cameras the most.

1046
01:40:36,458 --> 01:40:37,416
That was the data that

1047
01:40:37,416 --> 01:40:38,458
we worked with the most.

1048
01:40:38,833 --> 01:40:40,541
So with the deep sea collaboration

1049
01:40:40,541 --> 01:40:42,208
opportunity, the idea was

1050
01:40:42,208 --> 01:40:46,083
to have a way for explorers.

1051
01:40:46,583 --> 01:40:48,666
So National Geographic explorers are

1052
01:40:48,666 --> 01:40:50,291
grantees that the

1053
01:40:50,291 --> 01:40:52,958
society supports with funding.

1054
01:40:53,541 --> 01:40:55,791
So once they, they, they get a grant or

1055
01:40:55,791 --> 01:40:58,625
an award for their work in science,

1056
01:40:58,625 --> 01:41:01,500
exploration, storytelling, anything along

1057
01:41:01,500 --> 01:41:04,708
those lines to illuminate and protect the

1058
01:41:04,708 --> 01:41:05,583
wonder of the world.

1059
01:41:05,625 --> 01:41:08,333
So that's the global network of National

1060
01:41:08,333 --> 01:41:09,708
Geographic explorers.

1061
01:41:10,291 --> 01:41:12,416
And the idea is within that explorer

1062
01:41:12,416 --> 01:41:16,708
community is to invest in these in these

1063
01:41:16,708 --> 01:41:18,916
incredible people by giving them access

1064
01:41:18,916 --> 01:41:22,041
to tools and technologies to be able to

1065
01:41:22,041 --> 01:41:23,125
better do their work.

1066
01:41:23,125 --> 01:41:25,833
And so with the deep sea collaboration

1067
01:41:25,833 --> 01:41:28,333
opportunity, that was an opportunity

1068
01:41:28,333 --> 01:41:29,750
through funding and

1069
01:41:29,750 --> 01:41:32,666
then also hands on support.

1070
01:41:32,708 --> 01:41:34,791
So that I go out in the field with them

1071
01:41:34,791 --> 01:41:36,291
to help deploy the cameras.

1072
01:41:38,583 --> 01:41:40,000
That's the idea of the deep sea

1073
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:42,166
collaboration opportunity to equip them

1074
01:41:42,166 --> 01:41:43,416
with this these tools.

1075
01:41:44,291 --> 01:41:45,833
And so Lowe was the one of

1076
01:41:45,833 --> 01:41:47,166
she was in the first cohort.

1077
01:41:47,166 --> 01:41:48,625
So she was the second

1078
01:41:48,625 --> 01:41:50,333
person that I went out with.

1079
01:41:50,333 --> 01:41:52,708
And we had that crazy experience of like,

1080
01:41:52,708 --> 01:41:53,833
what am I getting into?

1081
01:41:54,833 --> 01:41:56,625
I, I get it.

1082
01:41:56,625 --> 01:41:58,416
I said, because it's this is actually

1083
01:41:58,416 --> 01:42:00,708
kind of an interesting story how, how,

1084
01:42:00,708 --> 01:42:03,291
how collaborations happens because you

1085
01:42:03,291 --> 01:42:04,791
and I had collaborated before.

1086
01:42:04,833 --> 01:42:07,125
And then when you guys had this sleeper

1087
01:42:07,125 --> 01:42:08,791
shark, I didn't know low at all.

1088
01:42:09,291 --> 01:42:10,958
And it turned out that she's actually

1089
01:42:10,958 --> 01:42:13,125
South African and she did her PhD, the

1090
01:42:13,125 --> 01:42:14,666
same university I did at Rhodes

1091
01:42:14,666 --> 01:42:17,250
University in Grams down where, of

1092
01:42:17,250 --> 01:42:18,791
course, there's a, let's say a bit of an

1093
01:42:18,791 --> 01:42:21,291
age difference when I, when, when I

1094
01:42:21,291 --> 01:42:22,583
finished versus when she finished.

1095
01:42:23,833 --> 01:42:26,000
But anyway, but she, you guys reached out

1096
01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:26,916
to me at the time and I

1097
01:42:26,916 --> 01:42:28,791
didn't know her as I mentioned.

1098
01:42:28,791 --> 01:42:30,958
And then we did this, published this

1099
01:42:30,958 --> 01:42:32,000
paper on the, on the

1100
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:33,791
Pacific sleeper shark.

1101
01:42:33,791 --> 01:42:35,541
And then I can't remember, it was like

1102
01:42:35,541 --> 01:42:38,875
maybe 10, 12 months later, maybe up to

1103
01:42:38,875 --> 01:42:39,583
maybe, I don't know, but it

1104
01:42:39,583 --> 01:42:40,625
was even quite a year later.

1105
01:42:41,041 --> 01:42:42,791
She wrote me that she had some more

1106
01:42:42,791 --> 01:42:45,833
interesting rays in sharks as she was

1107
01:42:45,833 --> 01:42:47,083
seen at the fish markets.

1108
01:42:47,833 --> 01:42:48,916
And I'm thinking like she's still in

1109
01:42:48,916 --> 01:42:51,791
Palau and she mentioned like, Oh no, I'm

1110
01:42:51,791 --> 01:42:52,916
actually in Timor, Leslie.

1111
01:42:53,166 --> 01:42:54,375
And I'm like, Oh, really? What are you

1112
01:42:54,375 --> 01:42:56,708
doing in Timor, Leslie? And she says she

1113
01:42:56,708 --> 01:42:58,541
basically was now working for world fish.

1114
01:42:58,791 --> 01:43:00,250
Well, shorts.

1115
01:43:26,625 --> 01:43:30,750
It was an amazing musical

1116
01:43:30,750 --> 01:43:35,208
series called landed by the

1117
01:43:35,208 --> 01:43:38,291
English which is like 1500 miles away and it's

1118
01:43:38,291 --> 01:43:40,125
like one of the first can first in suit

1119
01:43:40,125 --> 01:43:41,500
to record of this thing and

1120
01:43:41,541 --> 01:43:43,625
First time one had been confirmed in

1121
01:43:43,625 --> 01:43:45,958
like, you know a decade or more. So

1122
01:43:46,541 --> 01:43:47,833
Anyway, turn into a whole really cool

1123
01:43:47,833 --> 01:43:49,500
project. We got a paper out of it a

1124
01:43:49,500 --> 01:43:50,583
little note out of it and

1125
01:43:51,333 --> 01:43:53,958
But but just yeah, I just mentioned that

1126
01:43:53,958 --> 01:43:54,916
people listening. That's how

1127
01:43:54,916 --> 01:43:57,333
collaborations work sometimes. Yeah

1128
01:43:57,875 --> 01:44:00,791
Yeah, there we were again. So then the

1129
01:44:00,791 --> 01:44:02,041
next time lo and I were

1130
01:44:02,041 --> 01:44:04,041
together again. We were like Dave

1131
01:44:05,333 --> 01:44:08,791
I remember when I was I I'll go through

1132
01:44:08,791 --> 01:44:10,583
the footage at the end of the day just

1133
01:44:10,583 --> 01:44:12,041
quickly to see if everything's

1134
01:44:12,041 --> 01:44:13,708
You know working right and whenever and I

1135
01:44:13,708 --> 01:44:15,750
saw this I didn't know what it was

1136
01:44:15,750 --> 01:44:17,750
I just knew I'd never seen it before and

1137
01:44:17,750 --> 01:44:20,875
I sent the little screenshot to lo and

1138
01:44:20,875 --> 01:44:23,333
She had sent it off to you. And so it's

1139
01:44:23,333 --> 01:44:24,916
like well, no wonder I'd never seen it

1140
01:44:24,916 --> 01:44:26,416
before nobody's ever seen it

1141
01:44:26,416 --> 01:44:28,458
Oh, that was a that was a first time

1142
01:44:28,458 --> 01:44:30,458
anybody got in this video of

1143
01:44:30,458 --> 01:44:31,666
the shark and sit it was like

1144
01:44:32,125 --> 01:44:35,166
580 meters or so and the only records of

1145
01:44:35,166 --> 01:44:36,833
it are like I said that was described

1146
01:44:36,833 --> 01:44:38,791
from Bali and Lombok in Indonesia

1147
01:44:38,791 --> 01:44:40,125
It's like I can't remember here 1500

1148
01:44:40,125 --> 01:44:41,583
miles or 1500 kilometers

1149
01:44:41,708 --> 01:44:43,750
There's it was quite a lengthy extension

1150
01:44:43,750 --> 01:44:45,208
and no one had ever filmed one. They'd

1151
01:44:45,208 --> 01:44:46,166
only they only had been

1152
01:44:46,166 --> 01:44:47,666
seen in fish markets dead

1153
01:44:47,916 --> 01:44:51,041
So it turned out a whole number of a

1154
01:44:51,041 --> 01:44:52,708
whole number of fronts. It turned into a

1155
01:44:52,708 --> 01:44:53,750
quite an intro quite

1156
01:44:53,750 --> 01:44:54,791
an exciting discovery

1157
01:44:55,333 --> 01:44:57,833
For us and stuff. And so just one more

1158
01:44:57,833 --> 01:45:00,041
like it was just a it was

1159
01:45:00,041 --> 01:45:01,208
just a really interesting thing

1160
01:45:01,250 --> 01:45:03,500
And and just for people is it low? She

1161
01:45:03,500 --> 01:45:04,708
actually works on seahorse

1162
01:45:04,708 --> 01:45:06,583
and there's her specialty

1163
01:45:06,583 --> 01:45:08,458
So she didn't even do a work on sharks at

1164
01:45:08,458 --> 01:45:10,041
all, but she's learning now

1165
01:45:10,791 --> 01:45:12,625
Yes, and the same thing

1166
01:45:12,625 --> 01:45:14,041
It's just like all these sharks keep

1167
01:45:14,041 --> 01:45:16,291
showing up and they're so exciting and

1168
01:45:16,291 --> 01:45:18,500
it's so nice to share and we love it

1169
01:45:18,500 --> 01:45:20,708
And that's what I love about the deep sea

1170
01:45:20,708 --> 01:45:22,541
cameras and the deep sea collaboration

1171
01:45:22,750 --> 01:45:24,583
Opportunity is that it just opens up

1172
01:45:24,583 --> 01:45:27,166
those avenues for people who are

1173
01:45:27,166 --> 01:45:29,958
interested and and willing to I mean you

1174
01:45:29,958 --> 01:45:30,833
really have to persist

1175
01:45:31,291 --> 01:45:33,958
I have to give credit to low both of

1176
01:45:33,958 --> 01:45:35,500
those expeditions in Palau

1177
01:45:35,500 --> 01:45:38,291
and in Timor at work not easy

1178
01:45:38,291 --> 01:45:40,833
They were one of the most difficult are

1179
01:45:40,833 --> 01:45:41,625
some of the most

1180
01:45:41,625 --> 01:45:43,041
difficult where you're just faced

1181
01:45:43,041 --> 01:45:44,958
We're just being like oh not again

1182
01:45:44,958 --> 01:45:46,958
You know all these things and things are

1183
01:45:46,958 --> 01:45:49,541
falling apart and but you just keep going

1184
01:45:49,541 --> 01:45:51,666
and persist and then that magic happens

1185
01:45:51,750 --> 01:45:53,958
So I love that that happens with

1186
01:45:54,625 --> 01:45:57,625
Yeah, I haven't been to Palau but I Timor

1187
01:45:57,625 --> 01:45:58,708
I could see that being a

1188
01:45:58,708 --> 01:46:01,083
hard a tough area to work in

1189
01:46:02,125 --> 01:46:04,041
Going out there and I get it. I do we did

1190
01:46:04,041 --> 01:46:05,208
I did a pot and when I

1191
01:46:05,208 --> 01:46:06,958
did a podcast last fall

1192
01:46:06,958 --> 01:46:09,541
I talked to quite a bit about Timor just

1193
01:46:09,541 --> 01:46:11,791
as as a fascinating place

1194
01:46:12,291 --> 01:46:15,458
and but it was it was definitely not an

1195
01:46:15,458 --> 01:46:18,916
easy place to work in and I can't even I

1196
01:46:18,916 --> 01:46:20,083
can't imagine you guys are out

1197
01:46:20,083 --> 01:46:21,250
at sea putting down the

1198
01:46:21,708 --> 01:46:23,583
Put down this drop camp. I got to ask you

1199
01:46:23,583 --> 01:46:24,291
to do it. You get a

1200
01:46:24,291 --> 01:46:25,166
chance to any diving there

1201
01:46:25,791 --> 01:46:29,000
We did a little bit of snorkeling while

1202
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:30,708
we were waiting for the cameras

1203
01:46:30,708 --> 01:46:33,583
We just kind of get in the water and go

1204
01:46:33,583 --> 01:46:34,708
check out the reef. So

1205
01:46:34,708 --> 01:46:36,250
it was beautiful that yeah

1206
01:46:37,333 --> 01:46:38,500
It sits right there

1207
01:46:38,500 --> 01:46:40,291
Just so people know if you're probably

1208
01:46:40,291 --> 01:46:40,958
looking at a map to

1209
01:46:40,958 --> 01:46:42,375
find it Timor or less tea

1210
01:46:42,375 --> 01:46:43,916
It's all used to be called East Timor,

1211
01:46:43,916 --> 01:46:45,250
but it sits right on the

1212
01:46:45,250 --> 01:46:47,625
edge of the coral triangle

1213
01:46:47,625 --> 01:46:49,041
And it's just I didn't

1214
01:46:49,041 --> 01:46:49,750
get it when I was there

1215
01:46:49,750 --> 01:46:51,291
I didn't get a chance to dive but I saw a

1216
01:46:51,291 --> 01:46:53,708
lot of the videos and photos that people

1217
01:46:54,083 --> 01:46:56,708
Had taken there, and I'd go back just to

1218
01:46:56,708 --> 01:46:59,750
go diving. Yeah, I spent a week diving

1219
01:46:59,750 --> 01:47:01,875
It was like it literally a lot of places

1220
01:47:01,875 --> 01:47:04,000
look just like postcard picture postcards

1221
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:05,500
of the place there, so

1222
01:47:05,791 --> 01:47:08,625
And so how did you happen so Timor is it

1223
01:47:08,625 --> 01:47:09,666
because you knew low was there

1224
01:47:09,666 --> 01:47:10,833
is how you ended up going or?

1225
01:47:11,458 --> 01:47:14,750
Yeah, that's so the we have with the deep

1226
01:47:14,750 --> 01:47:17,125
sea collaboration opportunity we open

1227
01:47:17,541 --> 01:47:20,416
the applications once a year and

1228
01:47:20,875 --> 01:47:24,250
Then the explorers will apply and so

1229
01:47:24,250 --> 01:47:26,708
we'll select from those applicants the

1230
01:47:26,708 --> 01:47:28,041
cohort for that year

1231
01:47:28,041 --> 01:47:29,375
And so it's really you know

1232
01:47:29,375 --> 01:47:30,916
who it's kind of driven by

1233
01:47:31,166 --> 01:47:33,458
Whoever applies and where they are where

1234
01:47:33,458 --> 01:47:34,500
they want to do the work

1235
01:47:34,500 --> 01:47:36,083
and then we select those so

1236
01:47:36,958 --> 01:47:38,625
Yeah, so that's how we got

1237
01:47:38,625 --> 01:47:40,750
out the team or okay, okay

1238
01:47:40,750 --> 01:47:42,833
And now and now so you've been out to let

1239
01:47:42,833 --> 01:47:44,083
you've been out tonight even the team or

1240
01:47:44,083 --> 01:47:45,250
instead of how do you so every?

1241
01:47:45,250 --> 01:47:47,333
Year when you guys when you you're part

1242
01:47:47,333 --> 01:47:48,833
of the the review team that just

1243
01:47:49,458 --> 01:47:50,375
Looks through those

1244
01:47:50,375 --> 01:47:51,791
things so when you decide

1245
01:47:52,875 --> 01:47:54,291
Where you want to go is it

1246
01:47:54,291 --> 01:47:55,666
is it based on well this one?

1247
01:47:55,666 --> 01:47:57,541
This is this is an interesting area has a

1248
01:47:57,541 --> 01:47:58,125
lot of scientific

1249
01:47:58,125 --> 01:47:59,416
merit, or is it like hey

1250
01:47:59,416 --> 01:48:00,375
I really like to go there.

1251
01:48:00,375 --> 01:48:01,375
This is kind of cool place

1252
01:48:01,375 --> 01:48:06,291
You know it really has a

1253
01:48:06,291 --> 01:48:07,708
lot to do with feasibility

1254
01:48:07,958 --> 01:48:10,125
Even if there is some place that's really

1255
01:48:10,125 --> 01:48:12,083
cool that I would like to go the

1256
01:48:12,125 --> 01:48:14,833
Kind of the feasibility. We are limited

1257
01:48:14,833 --> 01:48:16,833
in that. It's it's a one-week

1258
01:48:16,833 --> 01:48:18,375
collaboration period

1259
01:48:18,375 --> 01:48:20,375
and which is short for

1260
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:23,291
You know the amount that we could do and

1261
01:48:23,291 --> 01:48:25,958
especially if as things happen like

1262
01:48:25,958 --> 01:48:27,250
weather and things you

1263
01:48:27,250 --> 01:48:28,500
kind of lose days here

1264
01:48:28,500 --> 01:48:30,916
And there and so you know the feasibility

1265
01:48:30,916 --> 01:48:32,750
of what can we do within a week?

1266
01:48:33,458 --> 01:48:36,208
We also like to distribute

1267
01:48:37,250 --> 01:48:39,375
Amongst you know different applicants,

1268
01:48:39,375 --> 01:48:40,791
and we couldn't resist

1269
01:48:41,791 --> 01:48:43,458
Going with low twice just

1270
01:48:43,458 --> 01:48:45,000
because she's awesome. Yeah

1271
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:48,125
That was yeah, it's been

1272
01:48:48,125 --> 01:48:50,916
it's easy to have a successful

1273
01:48:52,375 --> 01:48:55,541
Expedition with her, but yeah, did you

1274
01:48:55,541 --> 01:48:56,958
try to distribute among

1275
01:48:56,958 --> 01:48:58,666
regions among explorers?

1276
01:48:59,750 --> 01:49:01,166
Yeah, we try to kind of

1277
01:49:01,166 --> 01:49:02,416
touch on all those bases

1278
01:49:02,500 --> 01:49:05,291
I guess but probably the the interesting

1279
01:49:05,291 --> 01:49:06,500
place that I want to go to is

1280
01:49:06,500 --> 01:49:07,833
probably is the least of the

1281
01:49:07,833 --> 01:49:10,000
the criteria

1282
01:49:11,333 --> 01:49:14,750
Yeah, yeah, and so like you're certain

1283
01:49:14,750 --> 01:49:17,166
that so you kind of got into

1284
01:49:17,166 --> 01:49:18,541
this because of your professor

1285
01:49:18,541 --> 01:49:22,208
Out was Alan

1286
01:49:23,375 --> 01:49:25,208
Yeah, so so he was doing this

1287
01:49:25,208 --> 01:49:26,916
This was kind of your entryway and to get

1288
01:49:26,916 --> 01:49:28,125
into doing this stuff

1289
01:49:28,125 --> 01:49:29,208
with National Geographic

1290
01:49:29,541 --> 01:49:32,958
Yeah, so I started as a kind of a

1291
01:49:32,958 --> 01:49:34,958
research assistant with pristine seas

1292
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:38,916
With and most it was kind of more general

1293
01:49:38,916 --> 01:49:40,500
as just assistance with

1294
01:49:40,500 --> 01:49:41,625
the science in general

1295
01:49:41,625 --> 01:49:44,000
But he really wanted me and I just love

1296
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:46,291
my passion was the deep-sea cameras

1297
01:49:46,291 --> 01:49:48,000
and so through that

1298
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:50,625
like real focus I kind of

1299
01:49:51,708 --> 01:49:52,333
Was

1300
01:49:53,250 --> 01:49:55,625
just dove into it more as part of the

1301
01:49:55,625 --> 01:49:56,958
exploration technology

1302
01:49:56,958 --> 01:49:59,916
lab at a point where the

1303
01:50:00,291 --> 01:50:01,416
cameras were

1304
01:50:01,791 --> 01:50:04,791
Get it at that point when I was looking

1305
01:50:04,791 --> 01:50:06,958
at the the video footage

1306
01:50:07,625 --> 01:50:10,833
The cameras were also getting to a point

1307
01:50:10,833 --> 01:50:14,208
where they could be not just deployed by

1308
01:50:14,208 --> 01:50:15,416
the engineers themselves

1309
01:50:15,708 --> 01:50:18,541
But they were kind of more mature and

1310
01:50:18,541 --> 01:50:20,208
ready to be able to train

1311
01:50:20,208 --> 01:50:22,708
People on the cameras to use the cameras

1312
01:50:22,708 --> 01:50:23,583
without the engineers

1313
01:50:23,583 --> 01:50:24,625
actually being there

1314
01:50:25,041 --> 01:50:27,583
they're still a bit tricky, but

1315
01:50:28,333 --> 01:50:30,291
but it's we've kind of like

1316
01:50:30,791 --> 01:50:34,083
streamlined the process a lot and so now

1317
01:50:34,083 --> 01:50:35,583
they're at a point where not

1318
01:50:35,583 --> 01:50:37,416
only I can use them but I can

1319
01:50:37,541 --> 01:50:39,208
You know bring them and have other

1320
01:50:39,208 --> 01:50:41,041
explorers use them as well

1321
01:50:41,041 --> 01:50:42,791
so that's been kind of my journey with

1322
01:50:42,791 --> 01:50:45,041
the cameras is taking them from

1323
01:50:45,625 --> 01:50:47,833
At a point when they're they're at this

1324
01:50:47,833 --> 01:50:50,208
like technological readiness or maturity

1325
01:50:50,208 --> 01:50:53,000
to be able to to be used more

1326
01:50:53,625 --> 01:50:54,791
integrated into more of

1327
01:50:54,791 --> 01:50:56,541
the marine science world and

1328
01:50:57,041 --> 01:50:59,750
contribute to global marine science data

1329
01:51:00,083 --> 01:51:01,666
Did you have any special?

1330
01:51:02,291 --> 01:51:03,750
training in like he I mean

1331
01:51:03,750 --> 01:51:05,750
were you a photographer just

1332
01:51:06,250 --> 01:51:08,916
Normal ordinarily or just or just any

1333
01:51:08,916 --> 01:51:10,291
special skills for that or

1334
01:51:10,291 --> 01:51:11,458
you just learn on the job?

1335
01:51:12,125 --> 01:51:15,041
No, I learned on the job. I I

1336
01:51:15,750 --> 01:51:17,458
Didn't have any training with like

1337
01:51:17,458 --> 01:51:19,833
cameras. I don't really use them

1338
01:51:20,291 --> 01:51:22,166
Myself personally, I like

1339
01:51:22,166 --> 01:51:23,875
doing drawing. I like pictures

1340
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:26,791
I like images, but I like to do the

1341
01:51:26,791 --> 01:51:28,958
drawings of those myself

1342
01:51:29,666 --> 01:51:31,541
So yeah, I was on the job

1343
01:51:32,333 --> 01:51:33,708
learning and and

1344
01:51:33,916 --> 01:51:37,333
Yeah, learning as I go and but I do think

1345
01:51:37,333 --> 01:51:39,041
that the my background

1346
01:51:39,041 --> 01:51:40,916
in the shallow coral reef

1347
01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:42,666
Ecology and being out at sea

1348
01:51:42,666 --> 01:51:45,333
a lot with Noah and with D.A.R

1349
01:51:45,333 --> 01:51:48,875
and then also my experience just diving

1350
01:51:48,875 --> 01:51:50,541
and being on boats is kind of

1351
01:51:51,541 --> 01:51:53,708
Really prepared me for kind of all those

1352
01:51:53,708 --> 01:51:56,583
in unexpected all the kind of that

1353
01:51:57,125 --> 01:51:59,083
Creativity you need in the field to deal

1354
01:51:59,083 --> 01:52:00,625
with issues and to you

1355
01:52:00,625 --> 01:52:02,625
know, it's creativity really

1356
01:52:03,541 --> 01:52:05,041
You mentioned we know we mentioned that a

1357
01:52:05,041 --> 01:52:05,791
couple times, but

1358
01:52:05,791 --> 01:52:07,666
talk about your artistic

1359
01:52:09,208 --> 01:52:09,791
Background

1360
01:52:09,791 --> 01:52:14,750
Yeah, go ahead. Oh

1361
01:52:14,833 --> 01:52:17,625
yeah, I guess I just grew up drawing and

1362
01:52:18,625 --> 01:52:20,875
like everything I learned through school

1363
01:52:20,875 --> 01:52:23,541
I would draw and it was just a part of me

1364
01:52:23,541 --> 01:52:24,416
learning and

1365
01:52:24,416 --> 01:52:26,666
incorporating my experience and

1366
01:52:27,916 --> 01:52:29,583
something I loved and just

1367
01:52:29,916 --> 01:52:32,541
It kind of the drawing so this is the

1368
01:52:32,541 --> 01:52:33,250
other reason why I

1369
01:52:33,250 --> 01:52:34,250
love National Geographic

1370
01:52:34,250 --> 01:52:37,500
So much is because I felt like at my

1371
01:52:37,500 --> 01:52:38,833
drawing and the artistic

1372
01:52:38,833 --> 01:52:40,833
side that kind of right brain

1373
01:52:40,833 --> 01:52:42,666
I really put on hold

1374
01:52:43,083 --> 01:52:45,916
while I pursued the science side and I

1375
01:52:45,916 --> 01:52:48,666
really wanted to just like develop that

1376
01:52:48,666 --> 01:52:51,000
left brain logical and and

1377
01:52:51,041 --> 01:52:52,666
Develop those skills that I thought

1378
01:52:52,666 --> 01:52:55,791
needed more work really to be a scientist

1379
01:52:55,791 --> 01:52:57,583
and to think that way

1380
01:52:57,583 --> 01:53:00,333
so like super logically and linearly

1381
01:53:01,541 --> 01:53:02,875
but and so

1382
01:53:04,250 --> 01:53:06,166
Through my I guess especially

1383
01:53:06,458 --> 01:53:09,416
PhD I put that drawing on hold to

1384
01:53:09,458 --> 01:53:12,291
To be a scientist and they'd like prove

1385
01:53:12,291 --> 01:53:13,458
myself as a scientist and

1386
01:53:13,458 --> 01:53:15,625
then once I finished my PhD

1387
01:53:15,708 --> 01:53:16,875
That's when I really got

1388
01:53:17,333 --> 01:53:19,416
really involved with National Geographic

1389
01:53:19,416 --> 01:53:22,375
and going to their headquarters and being

1390
01:53:22,375 --> 01:53:24,333
a part of their convenings and

1391
01:53:24,750 --> 01:53:25,291
leadership

1392
01:53:26,875 --> 01:53:29,583
Workshops and I found that the artistic

1393
01:53:29,583 --> 01:53:31,791
side and especially the melding of the

1394
01:53:31,791 --> 01:53:34,250
two sides of the brain and just thinking

1395
01:53:34,416 --> 01:53:35,583
kind of creativity

1396
01:53:36,333 --> 01:53:38,958
creatively alongside the the logic and

1397
01:53:38,958 --> 01:53:39,916
the science was

1398
01:53:39,916 --> 01:53:42,541
actually something that is

1399
01:53:42,541 --> 01:53:44,000
Really celebrated and

1400
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:45,666
welcomed and so I felt

1401
01:53:46,375 --> 01:53:47,958
encouraged to

1402
01:53:49,041 --> 01:53:51,166
Bring up that part of myself again. And

1403
01:53:51,166 --> 01:53:54,041
so now I you know within that

1404
01:53:54,500 --> 01:53:55,916
community of National Geographic

1405
01:53:55,916 --> 01:53:59,291
I feel like my my artistic side is all is

1406
01:53:59,291 --> 01:54:00,791
like celebrated and

1407
01:54:00,791 --> 01:54:02,750
supported and so now it's

1408
01:54:02,958 --> 01:54:03,833
It's a part and it was

1409
01:54:03,833 --> 01:54:05,166
actually through this one

1410
01:54:05,791 --> 01:54:07,708
there was this one expedition in

1411
01:54:07,708 --> 01:54:10,458
particular where I really got to meld

1412
01:54:10,458 --> 01:54:14,416
those two, which is kind of I

1413
01:54:14,416 --> 01:54:16,541
Have now brought through my as I journey

1414
01:54:16,541 --> 01:54:17,291
throughout the world

1415
01:54:17,291 --> 01:54:18,791
now on all these different

1416
01:54:19,250 --> 01:54:20,833
Expeditions, but there was one in

1417
01:54:20,833 --> 01:54:23,916
particular with it was a collaboration

1418
01:54:23,916 --> 01:54:25,708
between Linblad Charles

1419
01:54:25,708 --> 01:54:27,333
Darwin Foundation in the Galapagos

1420
01:54:27,333 --> 01:54:28,250
And actually Dave we

1421
01:54:28,250 --> 01:54:29,750
published a paper from this one to

1422
01:54:30,750 --> 01:54:32,541
The sixth Gill and the seven

1423
01:54:32,541 --> 01:54:34,583
Gill shark range extensions

1424
01:54:34,833 --> 01:54:38,500
But on that one that MIT some students

1425
01:54:38,500 --> 01:54:41,166
and came out from MIT with Katie Croft

1426
01:54:41,166 --> 01:54:43,583
Bell and on it was on that expedition

1427
01:54:43,583 --> 01:54:46,166
Where I was think I was like, you know,

1428
01:54:46,166 --> 01:54:47,833
we're gonna be on this boat this

1429
01:54:47,833 --> 01:54:50,041
beautiful boat for a month

1430
01:54:50,041 --> 01:54:52,208
And what if I brought?

1431
01:54:53,250 --> 01:54:54,750
You know

1432
01:54:55,666 --> 01:54:56,750
Journal kits for

1433
01:54:56,750 --> 01:54:58,833
everybody so like dry young

1434
01:54:59,541 --> 01:55:02,875
Books notebooks and colored pencils and

1435
01:55:02,875 --> 01:55:04,458
kind of like a guidebook and everybody

1436
01:55:04,458 --> 01:55:06,041
does a journal and it

1437
01:55:06,041 --> 01:55:07,000
got me to really think

1438
01:55:07,000 --> 01:55:07,833
about how to

1439
01:55:07,833 --> 01:55:09,583
incorporate art and science in

1440
01:55:10,625 --> 01:55:13,625
In the field on expedition and just doing

1441
01:55:13,625 --> 01:55:15,708
kind of bringing the artistic side not

1442
01:55:15,708 --> 01:55:16,875
just collecting data

1443
01:55:16,875 --> 01:55:19,333
but also cool also kind of

1444
01:55:19,625 --> 01:55:21,666
using more of our senses and getting kind

1445
01:55:21,666 --> 01:55:24,583
of more of the personal context and all

1446
01:55:24,583 --> 01:55:25,833
the the parts of the

1447
01:55:26,125 --> 01:55:28,583
Experience that are kind of missing if

1448
01:55:28,583 --> 01:55:30,000
you only come back with the data

1449
01:55:30,000 --> 01:55:33,208
so that was really nice to that kind of

1450
01:55:33,208 --> 01:55:36,625
bring that to our that expedition and

1451
01:55:36,625 --> 01:55:37,958
then I've been using that

1452
01:55:37,958 --> 01:55:39,416
journal guide ever since as

1453
01:55:39,416 --> 01:55:42,291
I go and I must say that most like you

1454
01:55:42,291 --> 01:55:43,625
like Timor left a lot of

1455
01:55:43,625 --> 01:55:44,958
these places are really difficult

1456
01:55:44,958 --> 01:55:47,750
It's not a place to like sit and draw.

1457
01:55:47,958 --> 01:55:49,916
I've learned that and so now

1458
01:55:49,916 --> 01:55:53,500
Rocket aisles

1459
01:55:56,166 --> 01:55:58,625
Recover from food poisoning. It's like I

1460
01:55:58,625 --> 01:56:01,083
had food poisoning most of the time I was

1461
01:56:01,083 --> 01:56:04,625
Yeah, so but now it's

1462
01:56:04,625 --> 01:56:06,333
once I get back home

1463
01:56:06,333 --> 01:56:08,958
I'll do a drawing and it really helps to

1464
01:56:08,958 --> 01:56:10,958
kind of just integrate that whole

1465
01:56:10,958 --> 01:56:12,583
experience and then I have a

1466
01:56:13,666 --> 01:56:16,000
You know like a picture and it's just

1467
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:17,750
some some nice context and

1468
01:56:17,750 --> 01:56:19,166
just something I like to do and

1469
01:56:20,125 --> 01:56:22,250
I'm really happy that it's a part of my

1470
01:56:22,250 --> 01:56:23,666
work as well. Oh cool.

1471
01:56:23,958 --> 01:56:25,166
That's that's really neat

1472
01:56:25,166 --> 01:56:27,333
That's really so how many how many of

1473
01:56:27,333 --> 01:56:29,291
these expeditions do you do a year?

1474
01:56:30,875 --> 01:56:32,208
So we said the first

1475
01:56:32,208 --> 01:56:34,083
year we started in well

1476
01:56:34,250 --> 01:56:37,083
2021 was still covet and that's the year

1477
01:56:37,083 --> 01:56:39,625
that we started about midway through the

1478
01:56:39,625 --> 01:56:42,083
year and we did two in that year

1479
01:56:42,125 --> 01:56:43,083
so from

1480
01:56:44,125 --> 01:56:46,625
I guess we started in

1481
01:56:46,625 --> 01:56:48,541
September we did September and

1482
01:56:49,791 --> 01:56:52,791
December that year so 2022 was our first

1483
01:56:52,791 --> 01:56:55,708
full year of doing it and we did six

1484
01:56:56,583 --> 01:56:59,375
Plus an extra plus that Linblad one. So

1485
01:56:59,375 --> 01:57:00,708
we did eight expeditions

1486
01:57:00,708 --> 01:57:03,500
that year Wow and and so

1487
01:57:03,833 --> 01:57:06,166
So that was an experience a learning

1488
01:57:06,166 --> 01:57:07,833
experience where we've like

1489
01:57:07,833 --> 01:57:09,333
honed it down a little bit

1490
01:57:09,458 --> 01:57:13,583
Yeah, more manageable. So now we do five

1491
01:57:13,583 --> 01:57:15,291
of these deep sea collaboration

1492
01:57:15,291 --> 01:57:16,833
opportunities a year

1493
01:57:17,041 --> 01:57:18,416
plus maybe another

1494
01:57:19,875 --> 01:57:21,875
You know special collaboration

1495
01:57:21,875 --> 01:57:24,125
opportunity with another project or

1496
01:57:24,125 --> 01:57:25,083
something like that. So

1497
01:57:25,083 --> 01:57:26,625
that's a bit more manageable

1498
01:57:26,625 --> 01:57:29,375
Yeah, I was gonna say it's got I just

1499
01:57:29,375 --> 01:57:30,791
know what it takes to get one of these

1500
01:57:30,791 --> 01:57:31,916
expeditions together

1501
01:57:31,916 --> 01:57:34,041
It's just you know, you're doing like

1502
01:57:34,041 --> 01:57:36,125
seven or eight or something a year. It's

1503
01:57:36,125 --> 01:57:36,625
like I don't know

1504
01:57:36,625 --> 01:57:37,583
where you'd find the time

1505
01:57:38,625 --> 01:57:41,750
Well, you know what I I found myself is

1506
01:57:41,750 --> 01:57:45,291
there were some where I would just spend

1507
01:57:45,333 --> 01:57:49,083
like five nights in a row sleeping on

1508
01:57:49,083 --> 01:57:51,416
airplanes and I to get from one

1509
01:57:51,416 --> 01:57:53,166
expedition to another one

1510
01:57:53,166 --> 01:57:55,750
remote place to another I

1511
01:57:55,750 --> 01:57:57,375
had to make ten

1512
01:57:57,750 --> 01:58:01,416
flights without any delays and I don't

1513
01:58:01,416 --> 01:58:03,791
know how that happened because now I

1514
01:58:03,791 --> 01:58:06,250
would know ten flights in a row with

1515
01:58:06,250 --> 01:58:09,625
No major delays. We did have some but but

1516
01:58:09,625 --> 01:58:11,166
you know how sometimes the delays are

1517
01:58:11,166 --> 01:58:12,250
like, okay days later

1518
01:58:12,250 --> 01:58:13,625
You can get there. There was no way

1519
01:58:13,625 --> 01:58:15,333
because it was like if the

1520
01:58:15,333 --> 01:58:16,708
ship leaves the ship leaves

1521
01:58:16,708 --> 01:58:18,833
It's so there was no wiggle room. And so

1522
01:58:18,833 --> 01:58:19,750
that's something that

1523
01:58:19,750 --> 01:58:21,208
happened on the on the first year

1524
01:58:22,125 --> 01:58:24,166
So we try to also, you know

1525
01:58:24,166 --> 01:58:25,958
space them out a little bit

1526
01:58:25,958 --> 01:58:27,916
There was a there's a couple times where

1527
01:58:27,916 --> 01:58:30,750
I just I mean Hawaii is is

1528
01:58:30,750 --> 01:58:32,708
it's a great place to recover

1529
01:58:32,708 --> 01:58:34,375
But it's also hard to get to

1530
01:58:34,375 --> 01:58:39,833
So I would have like two days at home,

1531
01:58:39,833 --> 01:58:41,708
which was just you know

1532
01:58:42,250 --> 01:58:45,416
It was very I guess disorienting and some

1533
01:58:45,416 --> 01:58:46,791
and like five nights

1534
01:58:46,791 --> 01:58:47,791
sleeping on an airplane

1535
01:58:47,791 --> 01:58:52,500
You know one is enough and five is a lot

1536
01:58:52,500 --> 01:58:54,500
Yeah, I'll tell you it doesn't get I've

1537
01:58:54,500 --> 01:58:56,208
done that it doesn't get any easier as

1538
01:58:56,208 --> 01:58:57,625
you get older and you're just a kid

1539
01:58:59,708 --> 01:59:02,958
It's like man yeah, I used to be the like

1540
01:59:02,958 --> 01:59:04,416
time to get some work done or something

1541
01:59:04,416 --> 01:59:05,583
like on the plane or

1542
01:59:07,208 --> 01:59:09,791
Yeah, yeah, no, it's like now it's like I

1543
01:59:09,791 --> 01:59:11,125
now I just put on my headphones

1544
01:59:11,125 --> 01:59:12,708
And like that's turn off all the

1545
01:59:12,708 --> 01:59:15,125
electronics and just sleep for a bit.

1546
01:59:15,125 --> 01:59:17,125
Yeah, I have like I have my hoodie and I

1547
01:59:17,125 --> 01:59:18,333
just put the hood down

1548
01:59:18,333 --> 01:59:20,083
and I just like go into my

1549
01:59:20,750 --> 01:59:22,750
some deep meditation

1550
01:59:23,166 --> 01:59:24,750
It's funny when you're on those flights

1551
01:59:24,750 --> 01:59:26,458
too. You can see people like that and

1552
01:59:26,458 --> 01:59:27,625
you're like, you just I

1553
01:59:27,625 --> 01:59:28,583
don't know what you're doing

1554
01:59:28,791 --> 01:59:30,958
But yeah, I sort of get

1555
01:59:30,958 --> 01:59:32,541
the like whatever it is

1556
01:59:32,541 --> 01:59:34,458
It's something you're just going from one

1557
01:59:34,458 --> 01:59:36,458
job to the next and this is your sort of

1558
01:59:36,458 --> 01:59:37,791
yeah downtime that

1559
01:59:37,791 --> 01:59:39,125
whatever the flight is on

1560
01:59:39,166 --> 01:59:40,791
The on that trip and stuff

1561
01:59:42,083 --> 01:59:44,208
Well, Jonathan has been an amazing

1562
01:59:44,916 --> 01:59:47,666
Talk to talk with you today. We really

1563
01:59:47,666 --> 01:59:49,291
appreciate you coming on

1564
01:59:49,333 --> 01:59:50,791
I'll definitely want to have you come

1565
01:59:50,791 --> 01:59:51,625
back and talk about some

1566
01:59:51,625 --> 01:59:53,041
of your future expeditions

1567
01:59:53,458 --> 01:59:55,666
But what advice would you have for like

1568
01:59:55,666 --> 01:59:57,541
some young person starting out this like

1569
01:59:57,541 --> 01:59:58,375
I want to go work for

1570
01:59:58,375 --> 02:00:01,916
National Geographic, too. Oh

1571
02:00:02,000 --> 02:00:05,333
Yes, well for National Geographic a great

1572
02:00:05,375 --> 02:00:08,500
Great entry point is keep an eye on the

1573
02:00:08,500 --> 02:00:11,041
grants portal on the National Geographic

1574
02:00:11,041 --> 02:00:13,291
website. They're always updating

1575
02:00:13,791 --> 02:00:14,416
what

1576
02:00:15,041 --> 02:00:17,541
What RFP is what grant, you know what

1577
02:00:17,541 --> 02:00:19,333
applicants they're looking for?

1578
02:00:19,333 --> 02:00:21,625
So look at those opportunities there to

1579
02:00:21,625 --> 02:00:23,791
to get involved and to become a National

1580
02:00:23,791 --> 02:00:26,125
Geographic through one of those

1581
02:00:26,500 --> 02:00:27,833
Programs or whatever

1582
02:00:27,833 --> 02:00:29,583
opportunity comes up there

1583
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:33,625
I think in general to just like

1584
02:00:34,125 --> 02:00:36,291
Following up if you have kind of like a

1585
02:00:36,291 --> 02:00:38,250
North Star idea if you want

1586
02:00:38,250 --> 02:00:39,916
to be an ocean exploration

1587
02:00:40,500 --> 02:00:43,000
as you've seen I guess through my story

1588
02:00:43,000 --> 02:00:45,041
and through many others on the podcast

1589
02:00:45,041 --> 02:00:47,208
that it is it can be very a

1590
02:00:47,250 --> 02:00:50,416
winding road and I

1591
02:00:50,416 --> 02:00:52,958
Think be I would say be

1592
02:00:52,958 --> 02:00:55,458
persistent yet flexible

1593
02:00:57,041 --> 02:00:59,125
Persistent in that you're kind of always

1594
02:00:59,125 --> 02:01:01,500
bringing it back to what is you know

1595
02:01:01,541 --> 02:01:03,625
Your passion and your mission like what

1596
02:01:03,625 --> 02:01:05,791
is personally driving you what that that

1597
02:01:05,791 --> 02:01:07,791
love or your yeah your mission

1598
02:01:07,791 --> 02:01:08,958
What do you want to accomplish?

1599
02:01:09,791 --> 02:01:12,333
And also flexible in that like sometimes

1600
02:01:12,333 --> 02:01:15,291
some parts of your life might be you know

1601
02:01:15,291 --> 02:01:17,583
some chapters might be about

1602
02:01:17,583 --> 02:01:20,541
honing one particular skill or

1603
02:01:20,541 --> 02:01:21,750
You know just gaining

1604
02:01:21,750 --> 02:01:23,000
experience or connection

1605
02:01:23,000 --> 02:01:25,541
So it might look very different as you

1606
02:01:25,541 --> 02:01:26,125
move through the

1607
02:01:26,125 --> 02:01:27,375
different phases of your life

1608
02:01:27,416 --> 02:01:31,166
But always bringing it back to that that

1609
02:01:31,166 --> 02:01:32,833
core those core values

1610
02:01:32,833 --> 02:01:33,916
and that core mission

1611
02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:36,125
And I think that takes persistence yet

1612
02:01:36,125 --> 02:01:38,583
flexibility. I know it's an oxymoron, but

1613
02:01:38,583 --> 02:01:40,875
it's got it's like that dynamic. Yeah

1614
02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:45,916
Yeah, yeah a dynamic dynamic. Yeah. Yeah,

1615
02:01:45,916 --> 02:01:46,875
and just real quickly.

1616
02:01:46,875 --> 02:01:48,375
Where are you off to next now?

1617
02:01:49,166 --> 02:01:52,208
So on Sunday or not this the

1618
02:01:52,208 --> 02:01:53,875
next Sunday. I go to Brazil

1619
02:01:54,750 --> 02:01:57,875
region of by yeah, so I'm excited to go

1620
02:01:57,875 --> 02:01:59,666
there yeah, oh awesome

1621
02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:02,625
Yeah, that's that's very nice. Well

1622
02:02:02,625 --> 02:02:03,833
Jonathan. Thank you so

1623
02:02:03,833 --> 02:02:05,125
much for coming on the

1624
02:02:05,916 --> 02:02:07,458
Podcast and we're definitely gonna have

1625
02:02:07,458 --> 02:02:08,708
you back talk about some of your other

1626
02:02:08,708 --> 02:02:10,500
adventures and your travels

1627
02:02:11,416 --> 02:02:13,583
Going forward and keep us posted to if

1628
02:02:13,583 --> 02:02:14,208
you have anything really

1629
02:02:14,208 --> 02:02:16,166
super cool out of coming up

1630
02:02:16,166 --> 02:02:18,125
Let us know to we'll have you come on to

1631
02:02:18,125 --> 02:02:19,833
a bonus episode and share

1632
02:02:19,833 --> 02:02:20,666
some more of your journey

1633
02:02:21,375 --> 02:02:24,458
Okay, thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much

1634
02:02:24,458 --> 02:02:25,625
for having me. It was a

1635
02:02:25,625 --> 02:02:27,208
wonderful to speak with you

1636
02:02:27,541 --> 02:02:31,125
Thank you. Cool. Thanks a lot. Go. Thank

1637
02:02:31,125 --> 02:02:33,000
you Jonathan for joining us on today's

1638
02:02:33,000 --> 02:02:34,791
episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast

1639
02:02:34,791 --> 02:02:36,291
It was great to have you on

1640
02:02:36,458 --> 02:02:39,458
Dave look deep sea research. That's kind

1641
02:02:39,458 --> 02:02:40,708
of your bag as well. You

1642
02:02:40,708 --> 02:02:42,416
found a lot of sharks in deep sea

1643
02:02:43,166 --> 02:02:45,666
Using technology for exploration. What

1644
02:02:45,666 --> 02:02:47,541
did you think of all this? Oh, it's great

1645
02:02:47,583 --> 02:02:48,583
I mean, I you know, I knew

1646
02:02:48,583 --> 02:02:50,458
a little bit but she had is

1647
02:02:50,666 --> 02:02:53,041
What has had quite the career so far just

1648
02:02:53,041 --> 02:02:55,333
even before she really got locked into

1649
02:02:55,333 --> 02:02:57,291
her present position her career

1650
02:02:57,291 --> 02:02:59,791
just kind of coming out from New England

1651
02:02:59,791 --> 02:03:02,458
to the West Coast of Mexico to

1652
02:03:02,958 --> 02:03:05,291
say to she was in Chile and just then

1653
02:03:05,666 --> 02:03:07,916
Sailing to Hawaii and just decide like I

1654
02:03:07,916 --> 02:03:09,541
like it here and staying

1655
02:03:09,541 --> 02:03:11,791
and it's just sort of a

1656
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:14,125
It's a great story and I did some of the

1657
02:03:14,125 --> 02:03:15,625
stuff. I knew a little better and some of

1658
02:03:15,625 --> 02:03:16,625
it. I didn't know and

1659
02:03:18,208 --> 02:03:20,208
Yeah, I was just a fascinating career

1660
02:03:20,208 --> 02:03:22,958
trajectory for her and and then she wound

1661
02:03:22,958 --> 02:03:24,125
up didn't wound up

1662
02:03:24,125 --> 02:03:25,916
doing sharks of all things

1663
02:03:26,208 --> 02:03:27,958
and her career here and

1664
02:03:28,208 --> 02:03:31,208
Yeah, who knew you know, it's like I

1665
02:03:31,208 --> 02:03:32,250
think one thing I you know

1666
02:03:32,250 --> 02:03:34,208
You pick up listen to the episode is that

1667
02:03:34,208 --> 02:03:35,375
you know, she was here

1668
02:03:35,375 --> 02:03:37,125
This is cover I've had a number of

1669
02:03:37,125 --> 02:03:38,875
collaborators like this over the years

1670
02:03:38,875 --> 02:03:40,833
and she's like the one of the latest ones

1671
02:03:40,833 --> 02:03:42,541
Is that she's just you know?

1672
02:03:43,250 --> 02:03:45,250
Seen all these weird wonderful sharks and

1673
02:03:45,250 --> 02:03:47,625
rays in the deep sea and she wants to

1674
02:03:47,625 --> 02:03:49,083
know what they are and then through

1675
02:03:49,083 --> 02:03:51,000
You know mutual connections we got here

1676
02:03:51,000 --> 02:03:53,958
and I got connected and it's been a great

1677
02:03:54,541 --> 02:03:56,333
Collaboration just being able to identify

1678
02:03:56,333 --> 02:03:58,125
some of the species you see and a lot of

1679
02:03:58,125 --> 02:03:59,333
her just new records

1680
02:03:59,333 --> 02:04:01,166
We just we talked a little about this one

1681
02:04:01,166 --> 02:04:02,291
that just came out on the

1682
02:04:02,291 --> 02:04:03,625
on this painted swell shark

1683
02:04:03,625 --> 02:04:06,416
We found in Timor Lesty as you remember I

1684
02:04:06,416 --> 02:04:07,291
was there last year

1685
02:04:07,291 --> 02:04:08,208
and she was here about

1686
02:04:08,208 --> 02:04:10,208
She was there a couple months after I was

1687
02:04:10,208 --> 02:04:10,833
there working with

1688
02:04:10,833 --> 02:04:12,583
low closins and her crew

1689
02:04:13,333 --> 02:04:13,625
and

1690
02:04:13,916 --> 02:04:15,708
They saw the shark and they said hey

1691
02:04:15,708 --> 02:04:17,166
Dave. What is this and I go? Oh my

1692
02:04:17,166 --> 02:04:18,708
goodness. It's a painted swell shark

1693
02:04:18,708 --> 02:04:20,250
We haven't seen one of the we've never

1694
02:04:20,250 --> 02:04:22,916
seen ones in situ like that swimming and

1695
02:04:22,916 --> 02:04:25,500
we got a we got a publication out of it

1696
02:04:25,500 --> 02:04:27,250
It's being featured in National

1697
02:04:27,250 --> 02:04:28,375
Geographic now as we

1698
02:04:28,375 --> 02:04:30,166
speak and we'll have a more

1699
02:04:30,708 --> 02:04:32,791
Peer-reviewed paper coming out on it very

1700
02:04:32,791 --> 02:04:35,666
soon. So it's great. It's it's just the

1701
02:04:35,666 --> 02:04:36,541
kind of collaboration

1702
02:04:36,541 --> 02:04:38,250
It's kind of why I go into the field just

1703
02:04:38,250 --> 02:04:40,500
meet a wonderful array of people from all

1704
02:04:40,500 --> 02:04:41,291
kinds of backgrounds

1705
02:04:41,625 --> 02:04:42,833
That's what I love about

1706
02:04:42,833 --> 02:04:44,458
it, too. It's it's such a

1707
02:04:44,583 --> 02:04:46,875
An important part of science is that

1708
02:04:46,875 --> 02:04:49,083
collaboration keeping in touch, you know

1709
02:04:49,083 --> 02:04:49,708
building up those

1710
02:04:49,708 --> 02:04:51,500
relationships with you know

1711
02:04:51,500 --> 02:04:52,791
other researchers and other

1712
02:04:52,916 --> 02:04:55,041
Scientists who explore just as much as

1713
02:04:55,041 --> 02:04:56,541
you do and because you never

1714
02:04:56,541 --> 02:04:57,291
know what you're gonna find

1715
02:04:57,291 --> 02:04:58,500
You never know what you're gonna be able

1716
02:04:58,500 --> 02:05:00,041
to assist in and Dave

1717
02:05:00,041 --> 02:05:02,041
You've been part of that a number of

1718
02:05:02,041 --> 02:05:03,833
times for a number of different people to

1719
02:05:03,833 --> 02:05:05,208
assist in identifying sharks

1720
02:05:05,208 --> 02:05:07,000
And especially sharks that haven't been

1721
02:05:07,000 --> 02:05:08,458
seen in a long time and I

1722
02:05:08,458 --> 02:05:09,875
think that's that's great

1723
02:05:09,916 --> 02:05:12,000
It's testament to scientists and how we

1724
02:05:12,000 --> 02:05:13,666
all collaborate and give

1725
02:05:13,666 --> 02:05:14,666
each other credit for it

1726
02:05:14,666 --> 02:05:15,166
And I think that's

1727
02:05:15,166 --> 02:05:16,000
that's really important

1728
02:05:16,083 --> 02:05:18,208
so always nice to see that and it was

1729
02:05:18,208 --> 02:05:20,916
always nice to have to meet Jonathan have

1730
02:05:20,916 --> 02:05:23,041
her on the podcast to you know share it

1731
02:05:23,041 --> 02:05:24,666
With with you guys the audience to

1732
02:05:24,666 --> 02:05:26,791
understand what people are doing in

1733
02:05:26,791 --> 02:05:28,416
different spots around the world

1734
02:05:28,416 --> 02:05:30,208
This one in the Hawaiian Islands, which

1735
02:05:30,208 --> 02:05:32,541
was which was wonderful to be able to to

1736
02:05:32,541 --> 02:05:33,708
hear all the stuff

1737
02:05:33,708 --> 02:05:34,750
that's going on in there

1738
02:05:34,750 --> 02:05:36,833
So, yeah, thank you. Jonathan. We're

1739
02:05:36,833 --> 02:05:37,750
gonna put all her links

1740
02:05:37,750 --> 02:05:39,125
that she shares with us

1741
02:05:39,125 --> 02:05:40,833
So that you can get a hold of her and you

1742
02:05:40,833 --> 02:05:42,041
can get to know her a little better

1743
02:05:42,041 --> 02:05:43,625
And then of course Dave if people want to

1744
02:05:43,625 --> 02:05:44,750
get a hold of you, how would they do?

1745
02:05:45,166 --> 02:05:48,000
lost shark guy on Instagram and my

1746
02:05:48,000 --> 02:05:49,791
youtube channel a lost shark guy check

1747
02:05:49,791 --> 02:05:51,916
out a series searching for lost sharks

1748
02:05:51,916 --> 02:05:53,791
extinct or alive and

1749
02:05:53,875 --> 02:05:55,250
Yeah, hit us up leave it

1750
02:05:55,250 --> 02:05:56,750
leave a message and stuff also

1751
02:05:57,000 --> 02:05:59,458
Andrew'll say on the Beyond Jaws love to

1752
02:05:59,458 --> 02:06:00,916
hear from you. I hear any comments and

1753
02:06:00,916 --> 02:06:02,125
feedback. We really appreciate it

1754
02:06:02,708 --> 02:06:04,125
Yeah, absolutely our YouTube channel

1755
02:06:04,125 --> 02:06:05,291
beyond Jaws pod and

1756
02:06:05,291 --> 02:06:06,791
Instagram beyond Jaws pod

1757
02:06:06,833 --> 02:06:08,958
Check us out. Love to hear it and thank

1758
02:06:08,958 --> 02:06:11,125
you so much for listening to us. I want

1759
02:06:11,125 --> 02:06:12,583
to thank Jonathan for joining us Dave

1760
02:06:12,583 --> 02:06:14,041
Thank you again. It's always fun to

1761
02:06:14,041 --> 02:06:15,875
co-host with you. And of course everybody

1762
02:06:15,875 --> 02:06:17,375
listening, but thank you very much

1763
02:06:17,375 --> 02:06:19,208
We really appreciate it and we look

1764
02:06:19,208 --> 02:06:19,916
forward to talking to you

1765
02:06:19,916 --> 02:06:21,375
next time here on the Beyond Jaws

1766
02:06:21,875 --> 02:06:23,791
Podcasts from Dave and I have a great

1767
02:06:23,791 --> 02:06:24,583
day. We'll talk to you next

1768
02:06:24,583 --> 02:06:25,708
time and happy conservation