May 11, 2025
How Sophie Maycock’s New Book is Changing the Way We See Sharks
Sharks: In this special bonus episode ofBeyond Jaws, we dive deep into a fresh perspective on sharks through the eyes of marine biologist and science communicator Sophie Maycock. Sophie joins co-hosts Dr. David Ebert and Andrew Lewin to discuss her new bookShark: An Illustrated Biography, which not only showcases the beauty and complexity of these creatures but also challenges long-held misconceptions.
Sophie: We explore Sophie’s journey from her scientific background to becoming a published author, the creative process of writing about sharks, and why visual storytelling matters in science communication. Whether you’re a shark lover or simply curious about how marine science can reach new audiences, this episode delivers inspiration, education, and deep respect for the ocean’s most iconic predator.
Connect with us:
Website:https://bit.ly/37TMqeKInstagram:https://bit.ly/3eorwXZYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@beyondjawspodcast7591
Dave: Website:https://www.lostsharkguy.com/Instagram:https://bit.ly/3q1J9Q5
Andrew: Website:https://www.speakupforblue.com/Instagram:https://bit.ly/37g5WkG
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This is a bonus episode here on the
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Beyond Jaws podcast.
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We're gonna be talking to
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Sophie Maycock about her book.
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Let me put it in front here.
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Shark, a illustrated biography.
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If you thought you
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knew things about sharks,
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you might wanna take a look at this book
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because I think some
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of the information here
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will surprise you.
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And we're gonna talk all about that,
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especially the way that
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sharks have been presented
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in this book, not your typical book
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that you would think for sharks.
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So this is gonna be a fun episode.
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Let's get started with the show.
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Hey everybody, welcome back
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to another exciting episode
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of the Beyond Jaws podcast.
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A bonus episode.
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I'm your co-host Andrew
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Lewin here with my other co-host,
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Dr. David Ebert.
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Dave, are you ready to
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talk about sharks today?
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Oh, absolutely.
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Especially we got a new
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shark book coming out.
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That's always a great one.
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And having Sophie Maycock on,
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she's just electric, was amazing.
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Oh yeah.
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It's gonna be an amazing interview.
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And I didn't really know her that much
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other than through
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social media and stuff.
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And of course her co-author Dan Abel,
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I've known for quite a few years.
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But yeah, I'm really
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looking forward to this one.
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Her episode talking a
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little bit about her background
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and how she got into doing the sharks.
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And I don't want to
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give away the episode,
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but listeners- Exactly.
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Super interesting how she
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got interested in doing the,
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doing this book and everything.
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So I hope you enjoy it.
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I really hope you enjoy it and definitely
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check out this episode.
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Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
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This is something that we all love to talk about, Dave,
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with the amount of
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books that you've written.
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And then of course, having Sophie for
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some who's writing of her first book,
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or who's written now, who had written her
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first book with a
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little legendary Daniel Abel,
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who we've had on the podcast before.
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So it's a lot of fun to be able to talk
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about how this all came to be,
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what came out of it, and then what she
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has planned for the future.
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We talk all about that in this interview.
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So here's the
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interview with Sophie Maycock.
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Enjoy and we'll talk to you after.
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Hey Sophie, welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast.
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Are you ready to talk about sharks?
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I've always already talked about sharks.
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I love it.
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Well, welcome everybody to another
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episode of Beyond Jaws podcast.
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We have a special bonus episode today
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with the fabulous Sophie Maycock as our
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guest to talk about her new book,
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Shark, the Illustrated Biography that she
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co-authored with Dan Abel,
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who was on the podcast last year and he's
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a professor at the
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Coastal Carolina University.
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Sophie is a specialist shark specialist
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and science communications expert who
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founded and runs a
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public outreach project,
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SharkSpeak.
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After earning her bachelor's degree in
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biological sciences and a master's in
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evolution, biodiversity and conservation,
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Sophie specialized in marine
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conservation and shark behavior.
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She's participated in a wide range of
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research projects and presented her work
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at several scientific
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conferences around the world.
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She gained experience studying sharks in
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the lab and in the field in South Africa,
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Australia, the
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Netherlands and the Bahamas.
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And then after moving back to her home
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country of England, she now turned her
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attention to sharing her passion for
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sharks through various outreach projects.
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Shark speak has an extensive social media
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presence and Sophie also conducts public
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education events at
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bookshops, schools and universities.
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And this work has culminated in the book
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we're going to talk about today.
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Shark, the Illustrated Biography.
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Her background is she did her bachelor's
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degree at the University of East Anglica
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and her master's at University of Leiden.
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And Sophie, welcome to the show.
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Thank you so much for having me, guys.
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It's so great to be here.
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Cool. Well, you got to ask you if
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everybody wants to know, like, how do you
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get interested in sharks?
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By accident is the short version.
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The long version is that when I was a
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teenager, I had no
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idea what I wanted to do.
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I loved literature and I loved science
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and I didn't know what to do.
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So I decided I'll take a year out and I
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will go and travel to find myself, you
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know, like all teenagers say.
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But it ended up actually working out
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because I thought
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I'll volunteer somewhere.
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I picked randomly and I picked a great
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white shark diving
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experience in South Africa.
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And it was I only chose it because I
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thought I'd sound cool.
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I thought all my friends
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will think I'm really brave.
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But it really it really was a life
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changing moment, though.
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When I saw my first shark in the wild, I
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just had this amazing magical moment of
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like, oh, wow, everything I thought about
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these animals was completely wrong.
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And from that moment on, I decided I
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wanted to help other people understand
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why what they think
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about sharks is wrong.
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Were you down were you down at Muscle Bay or a cons by or when?
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Yes, it was that Hans
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by in South Africa. Yeah.
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OK, I have to ask.
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I've spent a lot of time
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and lived in South Africa.
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I got I know all these like I had to ask
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where you were exactly.
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You went there.
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So that must have been
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quite a credit credit thing.
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Right.
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Jumping right into the white shark stuff
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pretty quickly from not.
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You grew up in it.
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Yeah, you grew up in England.
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Correct.
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Yeah.
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With the least watery background possible
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near Oxford in the landlocked center of
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England, you know, no sharks to be seen
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anywhere apart from
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on Attenborough shows.
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So, yeah, completely unlikely.
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But here I am.
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Was that your first encounter like when
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you watched
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Attenborough, you know, do his thing?
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Was that what made you really understand?
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OK, this is what I want to do or this is
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where I want to explore a little more.
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I always suspected I wanted to do
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something in science.
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So I always suspected I might go into that.
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Right.
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You know, when I was learning myself, so
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it was a bit of a trial by fire, really.
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Yeah, but that was an interesting way
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when you speak to the public about sharks
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compared to learning about the science of
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sharks, the anatomy, the physiology, the
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genetics and even the ecology.
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You really start to understand what
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people want to know
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about the animal to write.
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Did you find that when you were when you
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were doing those tours?
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For sure. And what I love about what I do
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now is, you know, I do a lot of science
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communication stuff now.
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Yeah. And the reason I fell in love with
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it is because the public asked the most
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incredible questions. Right.
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Amazing the things people come up with.
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And I find myself going to know what I
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don't know the answer. I'm going to have
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to research that I get back to you.
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And you don't get those questions from
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people in scientific world. You get a
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whole new sort of wonder from people that
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aren't in the field,
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which is just inspiring.
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Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you went.
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So after you did Australia, you've been
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you made it to Australia and the Bahamas,
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which are kind of some of the nicer
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places to go as far as sharks.
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But also the Netherlands. Don't forget
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that. I just read the
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Netherlands. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. I did a lot of volunteer work. I
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just thought, you know, this is something
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I want to do. I'm just going to anywhere
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I go. I'm just going to sort of see if
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there's anything I can do to volunteer in
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the lab, in the field anywhere.
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And it sort of brought me on this sort of
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circuitous path all around the houses to
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to where I am now. So quite
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a strange way into academia.
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Yes. So I had all these experiences that
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kind of like that really got you like,
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OK, I want to be able to communicate
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about sharks and everything. And so and
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so how did how did
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you wind up coming back?
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Well, besides being your home country,
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how did you end up coming going back to
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England? Well, that was really quite an
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important moment as well, because I
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finished my master's and I was thinking
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I'm going to start applying for PhDs.
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You know, my career is flying and I came
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home to England and 11 days later, we
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went into the covid lockdown.
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Oh, yeah. So I was. Oh, yeah.
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So I was in my 30s in my parents house
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thinking, oh, my God, I'm now trapped in
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England for who knows how long. And I was
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losing my mind a bit in my house.
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So I I thought, well, I can't do a PhD
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right now unless I put
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some sharks in my bath.
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So I thought, you know, we always talk
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about reaching out to the public. Why
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don't I just start doing it? And I just
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started writing articles and I started
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setting up my website and I started
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meeting the public online.
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And I thought, actually, this is really
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fun. And I started really enjoying it.
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And so I started shark speak and it's
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just exploded. And now it's sort of
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01:09:08,375 --> 01:09:09,666
become my passion, really.
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01:09:09,666 --> 01:09:12,083
I'm not even in the field with sharks
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01:09:12,083 --> 01:09:14,458
that often I'm online talking to the
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01:09:14,458 --> 01:09:16,291
public about sharks, which is amazing.
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01:09:16,291 --> 01:09:19,958
Wow. Yeah. That's super interesting.
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01:09:19,958 --> 01:09:22,125
Turn in that situation into such an
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01:09:22,125 --> 01:09:25,541
outreach. So at that point in time, did
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01:09:25,541 --> 01:09:27,500
you have like a very large network of
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01:09:27,500 --> 01:09:28,250
people that you knew in
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01:09:28,250 --> 01:09:28,666
the shark world at all?
278
01:09:28,666 --> 01:09:31,375
I did. Yeah, because I've been going to
279
01:09:31,375 --> 01:09:33,250
conferences throughout my master's. So
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01:09:33,250 --> 01:09:34,541
I've met a few different people, which
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01:09:34,541 --> 01:09:36,125
was amazing. And they
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01:09:36,125 --> 01:09:38,041
really inspired me, you know.
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01:09:38,666 --> 01:09:40,500
So I did have a network, which was great,
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01:09:40,500 --> 01:09:42,875
but I found most of it all sort of just
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01:09:42,875 --> 01:09:45,416
came from social media is so powerful.
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01:09:45,416 --> 01:09:47,208
You can go on there and you can meet
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01:09:47,208 --> 01:09:48,250
people all over the world
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01:09:48,250 --> 01:09:49,916
and communicate this, you know.
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01:09:50,833 --> 01:09:53,916
And I had no idea that it would be as far
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01:09:53,916 --> 01:09:54,666
reaching as it has become.
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01:09:54,666 --> 01:09:57,583
If you just if we just use it for good,
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01:09:57,583 --> 01:10:00,958
right? Just social media for good. That
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01:10:00,958 --> 01:10:03,916
we're okay. Yes. If only,
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01:10:03,916 --> 01:10:05,208
right? What a perfect world.
295
01:10:06,125 --> 01:10:08,083
I think it's interesting, you know, you
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01:10:08,083 --> 01:10:10,583
go into, you know, obviously a global
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01:10:10,583 --> 01:10:12,375
pandemic. We all went into that
298
01:10:12,375 --> 01:10:14,875
definitely changed a lot of people's
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01:10:14,875 --> 01:10:16,041
career paths, you know,
300
01:10:16,166 --> 01:10:16,666
including including yours.
301
01:10:17,666 --> 01:10:19,750
And all of a sudden you find yourself,
302
01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:21,833
OK, I've got to build a site. I've got to
303
01:10:21,833 --> 01:10:23,208
build a bigger presence. I've got to
304
01:10:23,208 --> 01:10:25,500
start like looking at educational tools.
305
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:29,791
You know, how did you like figure out
306
01:10:29,791 --> 01:10:31,625
like like, did you just kind of like, I'm
307
01:10:31,625 --> 01:10:33,291
just going to see what happens. Like, I'm
308
01:10:33,291 --> 01:10:35,416
just going to see like, did you go in as
309
01:10:35,416 --> 01:10:37,000
this? This is going to be my business.
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01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:38,000
This is going to be my
311
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:39,666
like full time thing.
312
01:10:39,708 --> 01:10:41,625
And so I'm going to think about making
313
01:10:41,625 --> 01:10:44,500
money off of it. Or is this going to just
314
01:10:44,500 --> 01:10:45,916
be something that I'm going to build my
315
01:10:45,916 --> 01:10:48,458
profile, you know, figure out what people
316
01:10:48,458 --> 01:10:51,375
need in the in the, you know, like with
317
01:10:51,375 --> 01:10:52,333
the public and start
318
01:10:52,333 --> 01:10:53,708
building that as a profile.
319
01:10:54,208 --> 01:10:56,166
And then after this pandemic or as it
320
01:10:56,166 --> 01:10:58,583
starts to sub like subside, then I'll
321
01:10:58,583 --> 01:11:00,791
just kind of resume back to what I was
322
01:11:00,791 --> 01:11:02,625
going to do and, you know, follow that
323
01:11:02,625 --> 01:11:04,708
that dream of doing a PhD or working
324
01:11:04,708 --> 01:11:07,125
within within the like the research field
325
01:11:07,125 --> 01:11:07,666
or things like that.
326
01:11:07,666 --> 01:11:10,250
So, you know, obviously a lot happened in
327
01:11:10,250 --> 01:11:12,583
the last five years for you as well as as
328
01:11:12,583 --> 01:11:15,250
as the world. Like when you went into it,
329
01:11:15,250 --> 01:11:16,416
did you think of like, this is going to
330
01:11:16,416 --> 01:11:17,916
be my full time thing or I'm just going
331
01:11:17,916 --> 01:11:19,416
to do this as a way to keep me busy?
332
01:11:20,333 --> 01:11:23,125
Honestly, the latter, it was just I was
333
01:11:23,125 --> 01:11:24,875
losing my mind locked in my house. I
334
01:11:24,875 --> 01:11:27,750
wanted to keep my mind sharp and keep
335
01:11:27,750 --> 01:11:30,000
that science mind sharp as well. Keep on
336
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:30,916
top of, you know, the
337
01:11:30,916 --> 01:11:32,375
findings and what's happening.
338
01:11:33,208 --> 01:11:36,166
And I thought I just want to just throw
339
01:11:36,166 --> 01:11:37,625
it against the wall and see what sticks.
340
01:11:38,208 --> 01:11:41,583
And it just became something that I found
341
01:11:41,583 --> 01:11:45,333
I really enjoyed. And, you know, even
342
01:11:45,333 --> 01:11:46,958
now, it's not something that I mean, I
343
01:11:46,958 --> 01:11:48,750
would love it to be my full time job that
344
01:11:48,750 --> 01:11:50,208
I can do day in day out.
345
01:11:50,375 --> 01:11:51,625
But, you know, I'm not quite at the point
346
01:11:51,625 --> 01:11:54,666
where I can quit my day job yet. But I
347
01:11:54,666 --> 01:11:58,416
still do it because I just love doing it.
348
01:11:58,416 --> 01:12:00,250
And I love the research. I love the
349
01:12:00,250 --> 01:12:01,666
writing. And I love getting feedback from the people.
350
01:12:02,666 --> 01:12:03,083
I love getting feedback from the people
351
01:12:03,083 --> 01:12:06,083
who, you know, I met somebody recently
352
01:12:06,083 --> 01:12:07,875
who said, you know, my daughter is five
353
01:12:07,875 --> 01:12:10,916
and she loves sharks and she's so
354
01:12:10,916 --> 01:12:13,125
inspired to see a woman in the field and
355
01:12:13,125 --> 01:12:14,916
I was amazing. You know,
356
01:12:14,916 --> 01:12:16,791
I'm inspiring a young girl.
357
01:12:17,666 --> 01:12:21,208
So yeah, I think actually, I don't know
358
01:12:21,208 --> 01:12:23,458
if I will ever go back into like hardcore
359
01:12:23,458 --> 01:12:27,791
academia because I wouldn't say no. But
360
01:12:27,791 --> 01:12:30,750
equally, is it where my love is now? You
361
01:12:30,750 --> 01:12:32,666
know, is it where the passion is now?
362
01:12:33,541 --> 01:12:35,750
I'll be honest, I followed a very similar
363
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:37,375
passion, like it was the same village,
364
01:12:37,625 --> 01:12:39,333
same path, you know, it's doing the
365
01:12:39,333 --> 01:12:43,333
podcast and and talking about science and
366
01:12:43,333 --> 01:12:45,541
conservation with a lot of other people.
367
01:12:45,833 --> 01:12:46,875
It's how Dave and I met
368
01:12:46,875 --> 01:12:47,666
and we started this podcast.
369
01:12:47,666 --> 01:12:52,333
It was it changes. It changes your life.
370
01:12:52,958 --> 01:12:54,541
And when you realize, like, this is fun,
371
01:12:54,541 --> 01:12:56,250
I really enjoy doing this and I can help
372
01:12:56,250 --> 01:12:58,458
a lot of people just like that five year
373
01:12:58,458 --> 01:12:59,625
old girl. And I'm sure there's probably
374
01:12:59,625 --> 01:13:02,541
more, more of those stories of all ages
375
01:13:02,541 --> 01:13:04,625
to be able to say I help people either
376
01:13:04,625 --> 01:13:06,583
get over their fear sharks or really
377
01:13:06,583 --> 01:13:09,750
satisfy that curiosity of, you know, the
378
01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:10,625
different types of sharks.
379
01:13:10,708 --> 01:13:12,125
And like, I'm on your website right now
380
01:13:12,125 --> 01:13:14,000
as we as we speak and all these different
381
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,291
photos and infrared like little tidbits
382
01:13:16,291 --> 01:13:18,166
of information just even before you even
383
01:13:18,166 --> 01:13:20,333
click on a on an image. And it's just
384
01:13:20,333 --> 01:13:21,666
like, oh, this is really cool.
385
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:25,291
You know, and and so, yeah, I really love
386
01:13:25,291 --> 01:13:27,625
love that aspect. But then, you know, you
387
01:13:27,625 --> 01:13:31,125
have this this website, you have these,
388
01:13:31,125 --> 01:13:32,375
you know, on the website, there's
389
01:13:32,375 --> 01:13:34,000
articles, there's fast facts. So you're
390
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:35,291
writing a lot about sharks.
391
01:13:35,958 --> 01:13:39,416
What made you decide to be like, oh,
392
01:13:39,416 --> 01:13:41,125
yeah, now I'm going to just I'm going to
393
01:13:41,125 --> 01:13:44,833
just write a book because, you know, I
394
01:13:44,833 --> 01:13:47,291
can do this stuff. Yeah. Yeah, we all
395
01:13:47,291 --> 01:13:48,583
have a book of this. This is great.
396
01:13:49,583 --> 01:13:51,083
You know, this is the funniest story
397
01:13:51,083 --> 01:13:53,083
because it was the weirdest sort of
398
01:13:53,083 --> 01:13:56,625
simpatico moment where I thought, you
399
01:13:56,625 --> 01:13:58,500
know, I've got a lot of content online
400
01:13:58,500 --> 01:14:02,125
now. Yeah, maybe I can turn into a book.
401
01:14:02,125 --> 01:14:03,125
I wonder if I could do
402
01:14:03,125 --> 01:14:04,375
that. And it was so strange.
403
01:14:05,666 --> 01:14:07,958
And about a week later, literally within
404
01:14:07,958 --> 01:14:11,791
days, I got this email to my inbox and
405
01:14:11,791 --> 01:14:16,500
this Dan Abel. And, you know, I've got
406
01:14:16,500 --> 01:14:18,708
all Dan's books, I know Dan is somebody,
407
01:14:18,708 --> 01:14:20,208
you know, I was fan girling over this
408
01:14:20,208 --> 01:14:20,916
email being like, oh my
409
01:14:20,916 --> 01:14:22,166
goodness, it's Dr. Abel.
410
01:14:23,708 --> 01:14:25,333
And he's saying, you know, I'm writing
411
01:14:25,333 --> 01:14:27,916
this book and it's going to be something
412
01:14:27,916 --> 01:14:29,666
different to anything else that is out
413
01:14:29,666 --> 01:14:32,416
there. And I think I need a unique, you
414
01:14:32,416 --> 01:14:33,916
know, new voice on it. Would you be
415
01:14:33,916 --> 01:14:37,083
interested? And I swear I didn't think it
416
01:14:37,083 --> 01:14:38,125
was him. I thought it
417
01:14:38,125 --> 01:14:39,458
was somebody catfishing me.
418
01:14:39,666 --> 01:14:42,208
And when we I was like, when we go on to
419
01:14:42,208 --> 01:14:44,125
a zoom, it's going to be like a 50 year
420
01:14:44,125 --> 01:14:46,958
old woman in Africa, you know, I think
421
01:14:46,958 --> 01:14:50,000
it's not going to be Dan Abel. And it was
422
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:53,833
it was him. And so he found me through my
423
01:14:53,833 --> 01:14:56,541
site and he enjoyed the tone of my
424
01:14:56,541 --> 01:14:59,958
writing and sort of the passion and, you
425
01:14:59,958 --> 01:15:01,208
know, the love, which
426
01:15:01,208 --> 01:15:02,458
is what Dan has as well.
427
01:15:02,708 --> 01:15:04,916
So it's about being a scientist about
428
01:15:04,916 --> 01:15:08,916
this about love. And that was why he
429
01:15:08,916 --> 01:15:11,416
offered me, you know, co-author on the
430
01:15:11,416 --> 01:15:13,291
book. And it was crazy because as we
431
01:15:13,291 --> 01:15:16,416
started writing it, you cannot tell who
432
01:15:16,416 --> 01:15:18,750
wrote which piece, you know, I read
433
01:15:18,750 --> 01:15:21,000
chapters and I'm like, this could be your
434
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:22,958
Dan, we've got exactly the same.
435
01:15:23,500 --> 01:15:24,291
Nice. Yeah.
436
01:15:25,666 --> 01:15:59,083
So it worked out so well. And then all of a sudden you see you keep
437
01:15:59,083 --> 01:16:00,333
building and building and building, you
438
01:16:00,333 --> 01:16:01,791
start getting more and more viewers and
439
01:16:01,791 --> 01:16:02,958
more and more people to come. And then
440
01:16:02,958 --> 01:16:04,333
all of a sudden people within your
441
01:16:04,333 --> 01:16:05,916
industry start to like within your field
442
01:16:05,916 --> 01:16:07,875
recognize it. And then somebody who
443
01:16:07,875 --> 01:16:10,000
you've read for a long time comes out out
444
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:12,833
of nowhere, you know, and it and and for
445
01:16:12,833 --> 01:16:14,208
me, that's the same thing that's happened
446
01:16:14,208 --> 01:16:15,583
to me where some people like I have no
447
01:16:15,583 --> 01:16:17,375
business knowing this person and they
448
01:16:17,375 --> 01:16:19,958
contacted me, you know, to come on the
449
01:16:19,958 --> 01:16:20,625
podcast or what and
450
01:16:20,625 --> 01:16:21,666
you're just like, holy cow.
451
01:16:21,666 --> 01:16:23,958
It's like, you know, it's it's amazing.
452
01:16:24,166 --> 01:16:25,583
It's an amazing feeling, but it's also
453
01:16:25,583 --> 01:16:29,375
you put yourself out there to and then an
454
01:16:29,375 --> 01:16:31,333
opportunities came. I think that I think
455
01:16:31,333 --> 01:16:34,166
a lot of people that I meet that want to
456
01:16:34,166 --> 01:16:36,208
get into the ring conservation field or
457
01:16:36,208 --> 01:16:37,666
do something within that field.
458
01:16:37,666 --> 01:16:41,375
They tend to sit around and not do
459
01:16:41,375 --> 01:16:44,166
anything about it. Right. It's start a
460
01:16:44,166 --> 01:16:47,083
website, start a channel, start something
461
01:16:47,083 --> 01:16:49,125
to talk about and show your passion.
462
01:16:49,125 --> 01:16:52,250
Yeah. And you may or may not get rewarded
463
01:16:52,250 --> 01:16:53,958
for it, but likely some opportunities
464
01:16:53,958 --> 01:16:55,125
going to come up that you may
465
01:16:55,125 --> 01:16:56,000
or may not have ever expected.
466
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:57,458
Like, did you ever think you were going
467
01:16:57,458 --> 01:16:59,750
to write a book? I mean, I would in my
468
01:16:59,750 --> 01:17:01,833
wildest dreams, you're thinking about it,
469
01:17:01,833 --> 01:17:03,500
I guess. Yeah. Well, it's like, you don't
470
01:17:03,500 --> 01:17:04,291
think that that's really
471
01:17:04,291 --> 01:17:05,666
going to happen, you know? Right.
472
01:17:05,666 --> 01:17:08,000
And for all those years, I mean, because
473
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:11,083
it was years of putting in hours and
474
01:17:11,083 --> 01:17:12,916
graphs and thinking no one's going to see
475
01:17:12,916 --> 01:17:14,458
it, you know, putting an article up and
476
01:17:14,458 --> 01:17:16,583
you get 30 views and you're like, it's
477
01:17:16,583 --> 01:17:18,166
not going anywhere. Yes.
478
01:17:27,666 --> 01:17:29,250
And I think it's gone in and I doing this
479
01:17:29,250 --> 01:17:30,750
project, I really realized that I was
480
01:17:30,750 --> 01:17:32,666
like, you've got to go out there and
481
01:17:32,666 --> 01:17:34,708
chase it down because it isn't going to
482
01:17:34,708 --> 01:17:36,916
come to you. Right. You've got to keep
483
01:17:36,916 --> 01:17:39,208
going, keep going, fail, get up, keep
484
01:17:39,208 --> 01:17:42,083
going, fail again. And I made mistakes
485
01:17:42,083 --> 01:17:43,625
along the way where I was like, oh, that
486
01:17:43,625 --> 01:17:45,291
was bad. That was an embarrassment. I
487
01:17:45,291 --> 01:17:48,416
need to take that down and redo that. But
488
01:17:48,416 --> 01:17:50,208
it's a process. And then eventually at
489
01:17:50,208 --> 01:17:51,500
the end, you're like, looking back,
490
01:17:51,500 --> 01:17:54,083
you're like, wow, like I've actually
491
01:17:54,083 --> 01:17:55,666
achieved something. And, you know, what could have been the word?
492
01:17:56,666 --> 01:17:58,166
What could have been the worst years of
493
01:17:58,166 --> 01:17:59,583
my life, but that, you know, with the
494
01:17:59,583 --> 01:18:01,166
pandemic and everything, I mean, I think
495
01:18:01,166 --> 01:18:02,958
the reason that it was so important to me
496
01:18:02,958 --> 01:18:04,625
as well is I think the mental health is,
497
01:18:04,625 --> 01:18:05,583
you know, locked in the
498
01:18:05,583 --> 01:18:06,833
house was not good for me.
499
01:18:07,291 --> 01:18:09,583
I really need to be productive. I get
500
01:18:09,583 --> 01:18:12,458
that. So, you know, sharks beat kind of
501
01:18:12,458 --> 01:18:15,833
helped me as much as, you know, as much
502
01:18:15,833 --> 01:18:17,916
as I enjoyed it, it saved me a little bit
503
01:18:17,916 --> 01:18:19,666
as well. Yeah. Yeah.
504
01:18:19,708 --> 01:18:22,750
Yeah. So with your with all you know, now
505
01:18:22,750 --> 01:18:24,875
that you're a famous published author on
506
01:18:24,875 --> 01:18:27,458
the shark book, maybe
507
01:18:27,458 --> 01:18:28,583
even just said that guy.
508
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:34,208
This will be the trailer for
509
01:18:34,208 --> 01:18:38,666
the episode. Yeah. Mark that.
510
01:18:41,666 --> 01:18:46,125
And just every Princeton University Press
511
01:18:46,125 --> 01:18:47,333
is published in the book. That's the same
512
01:18:47,333 --> 01:18:49,750
as done. My sharks, the world book and my
513
01:18:49,750 --> 01:18:53,000
field guide as well. So that's in the
514
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:55,500
world. Dave, I love those books so much.
515
01:18:55,666 --> 01:18:58,416
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So
516
01:18:58,416 --> 01:19:00,333
Princeton, please, every post this when
517
01:19:00,333 --> 01:19:02,666
it comes out. Yes. Come
518
01:19:02,666 --> 01:19:03,666
on, Princeton. Come on.
519
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:07,125
Come on. One of my books. Yeah. No, they
520
01:19:07,125 --> 01:19:09,166
had. But no, it's a it's a really nice
521
01:19:09,166 --> 01:19:11,500
book. No, I had to add. I checked it. I
522
01:19:11,500 --> 01:19:12,958
was checking out. You had you got an
523
01:19:12,958 --> 01:19:14,791
illustrator involved in doing with the we
524
01:19:14,791 --> 01:19:17,541
did. Yeah. And it was Princeton found
525
01:19:17,541 --> 01:19:19,375
this illustrator. And oh, my goodness.
526
01:19:19,375 --> 01:19:21,791
Did he bring this to life? We actually
527
01:19:21,791 --> 01:19:23,583
the book was supposed to be out before
528
01:19:23,583 --> 01:19:26,041
Christmas last year. And Dan and I were
529
01:19:26,041 --> 01:19:27,958
quite disappointed because they said, oh,
530
01:19:28,125 --> 01:19:29,250
we're going to have to delay it because
531
01:19:29,250 --> 01:19:32,541
the artist isn't ready. But now I'm like,
532
01:19:32,541 --> 01:19:32,666
I'm so glad we delayed it.
533
01:19:33,708 --> 01:19:35,666
Because what a job he's done is
534
01:19:35,666 --> 01:19:38,500
beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's very
535
01:19:38,500 --> 01:19:41,291
nice. It's a very nice book. It's really
536
01:19:41,291 --> 01:19:43,708
nice. It covers a lot of a lot of ground
537
01:19:43,708 --> 01:19:47,250
in the book as well. And it's totally,
538
01:19:47,250 --> 01:19:49,000
totally cool. And it is out now, right?
539
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,375
It came out. It's out now.
540
01:20:07,875 --> 01:20:11,125
It's a book that I wanted to write
541
01:20:11,125 --> 01:20:13,875
something that I wished I'd had when I
542
01:20:13,875 --> 01:20:16,458
first realized I was in sharks. Yeah,
543
01:20:16,458 --> 01:20:18,416
because, you know, we wanted to.
544
01:20:19,666 --> 01:20:20,250
I think that we have to target this
545
01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:23,000
intelligent members of the public, which
546
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,833
is a huge amount of the public. I think
547
01:20:25,833 --> 01:20:28,625
some shark books are a bit patronizing
548
01:20:28,625 --> 01:20:32,250
and there's there's a lot for kids. And
549
01:20:32,250 --> 01:20:34,666
then there's books for scientists. And I
550
01:20:34,666 --> 01:20:36,041
wanted something in the middle that like
551
01:20:36,041 --> 01:20:39,041
the intelligent young adults and curious
552
01:20:39,041 --> 01:20:40,791
adults who want to learn about this
553
01:20:40,791 --> 01:20:43,291
without it being too heavy and still
554
01:20:43,291 --> 01:20:46,125
being fun and light and interesting. But
555
01:20:46,125 --> 01:20:48,250
got a lot of the science in there in a
556
01:20:48,250 --> 01:20:48,666
way that people can understand it.
557
01:20:48,708 --> 01:20:51,708
Because if we're if people can't
558
01:20:51,708 --> 01:20:53,250
understand it, then scientists are
559
01:20:53,250 --> 01:20:54,166
failing because we should be
560
01:20:54,166 --> 01:20:57,125
communicating it better. So we wanted to
561
01:20:57,125 --> 01:20:58,583
write something with that kind of tone
562
01:20:58,583 --> 01:21:00,291
that's fun and funny. And there's a lot
563
01:21:00,291 --> 01:21:01,833
of little puns in there. We had a great
564
01:21:01,833 --> 01:21:04,125
time writing the chapter headings. As you
565
01:21:04,125 --> 01:21:06,666
can tell, we've got my partner will be
566
01:21:06,666 --> 01:21:08,875
very proud because Jurassic shark made it
567
01:21:08,875 --> 01:21:11,875
in there, which was his idea. Yeah, so
568
01:21:11,875 --> 01:21:13,166
you know, we got some great little puns
569
01:21:13,166 --> 01:21:14,750
in there with which me and Dan really,
570
01:21:14,750 --> 01:21:16,083
really enjoyed. That's where we got to
571
01:21:16,083 --> 01:21:16,500
have a bit of
572
01:21:16,500 --> 01:21:17,666
personality with it as well. Yeah.
573
01:21:17,666 --> 01:21:20,666
Yeah, that's a lot of fun. It's nice.
574
01:21:20,666 --> 01:21:23,250
Nice. You able to do that stuff. Yeah. So
575
01:21:23,250 --> 01:21:26,625
yeah. So you you've been out on the on a
576
01:21:26,625 --> 01:21:29,833
book tour now doing some talks and yeah,
577
01:21:29,833 --> 01:21:32,458
promote it. Yeah, absolutely. But I'm I'm
578
01:21:32,458 --> 01:21:34,458
open to more. So if anybody wants to get
579
01:21:34,458 --> 01:21:36,666
in touch, I'm doing some sort of like
580
01:21:36,666 --> 01:21:39,250
some sort of nights out with the public
581
01:21:39,250 --> 01:21:41,083
in book shops and things. But I'm also
582
01:21:41,083 --> 01:21:42,958
starting to go into some primary schools
583
01:21:42,958 --> 01:21:44,416
and some secondary schools and into
584
01:21:44,416 --> 01:21:46,458
universities as well to sort of talk to
585
01:21:46,458 --> 01:21:46,666
kids about this stuff.
586
01:21:46,708 --> 01:21:51,000
Which I'm really excited about. Yeah, so
587
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,666
it's really cool to actually like, you
588
01:21:52,666 --> 01:21:54,333
know, I've been doing this online for so
589
01:21:54,333 --> 01:21:56,250
long. I think it's kind of it's kind of
590
01:21:56,250 --> 01:21:57,458
surprising for people to be like, Oh,
591
01:21:57,458 --> 01:21:58,875
you're actually a real person. I can
592
01:21:58,875 --> 01:22:03,000
actually. Please do come and talk to me.
593
01:22:03,708 --> 01:22:09,916
You do exist. Yeah. So now that you've
594
01:22:09,916 --> 01:22:12,041
actually written a book now, do you think
595
01:22:12,041 --> 01:22:12,666
you write another one?
596
01:22:13,666 --> 01:22:16,500
I have started a second one. I actually
597
01:22:16,500 --> 01:22:18,291
started before the first one even came
598
01:22:18,291 --> 01:22:20,500
out. Yeah. And I'm sort of looking to
599
01:22:20,500 --> 01:22:23,500
shop that around soon. I haven't finished
600
01:22:23,500 --> 01:22:25,333
it about halfway through. But yeah, I am
601
01:22:25,333 --> 01:22:27,666
writing a second one. Okay. Okay. Is this
602
01:22:27,666 --> 01:22:29,875
what is the same thing that is geared
603
01:22:29,875 --> 01:22:30,750
towards younger people
604
01:22:30,750 --> 01:22:31,666
or just out anyone there?
605
01:22:32,666 --> 01:22:34,166
It's going to be geared sort of towards
606
01:22:34,166 --> 01:22:37,250
adults. And it is I really want to write
607
01:22:37,250 --> 01:22:39,958
about what it feels like to be a shark
608
01:22:39,958 --> 01:22:42,250
and the experiences that sharks have in
609
01:22:42,250 --> 01:22:45,416
their world and how they feel and see and
610
01:22:45,416 --> 01:22:49,000
what their brains are like. And do they
611
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,375
have a way to communicate? And I want
612
01:22:52,375 --> 01:22:55,375
people to realize we're so past this old
613
01:22:55,375 --> 01:22:57,208
outdated idea that sharks
614
01:22:57,208 --> 01:22:58,666
are stupid, cold, mindless.
615
01:22:58,666 --> 01:23:02,458
Yeah. Yeah. It's time for people to know
616
01:23:02,458 --> 01:23:04,416
the truth. Well, you know, well, this
617
01:23:04,416 --> 01:23:06,708
June, you'll be 50 years from since Josh
618
01:23:06,708 --> 01:23:11,583
came out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I should say
619
01:23:11,583 --> 01:23:13,166
I'm embarrassed, but I was I actually saw
620
01:23:13,166 --> 01:23:15,666
the movie when it came out 50 years ago.
621
01:23:15,666 --> 01:23:21,166
So I'll leave it at that. But it was kind
622
01:23:21,166 --> 01:23:22,541
of like I've been
623
01:23:22,541 --> 01:23:22,666
around a long time, Dave.
624
01:23:23,666 --> 01:23:27,875
But like I say, well, at least at least
625
01:23:27,875 --> 01:23:29,583
your co-author in this book, Dan, he was
626
01:23:29,583 --> 01:23:32,916
around too. So Dan's a little older than
627
01:23:32,916 --> 01:23:37,041
me. So so I feel young. So I feel young
628
01:23:37,041 --> 01:23:42,083
with that company there. And so yeah, it
629
01:23:42,083 --> 01:23:43,375
should be a good opportunity to like
630
01:23:43,375 --> 01:23:45,541
promote some of this with the jaws coming
631
01:23:45,541 --> 01:23:45,666
out and see where things have gone.
632
01:23:46,666 --> 01:23:51,125
What a change. I mean, 50 years. But what
633
01:23:51,125 --> 01:23:53,500
a change, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I
634
01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:55,791
mean, I like say, yeah, it's funny to me
635
01:23:55,791 --> 01:23:57,291
because like you guys weren't even born
636
01:23:57,291 --> 01:24:00,375
when the when the movie came out. And
637
01:24:00,375 --> 01:24:02,083
when did it come out? Seventy seven.
638
01:24:02,416 --> 01:24:04,916
Seventy five. Oh, yeah. My brother was
639
01:24:04,916 --> 01:24:06,625
born. I was three years later. Yeah.
640
01:24:06,958 --> 01:24:09,375
Yeah. Close. Yeah. You're you're a close.
641
01:24:09,375 --> 01:24:09,666
Sophie was like, wasn't even in the planning. I was non-existent.
642
01:24:09,708 --> 01:24:16,416
You weren't even your parents like plans
643
01:24:16,416 --> 01:24:18,125
at all. Yeah, I'm sure your parents were
644
01:24:18,125 --> 01:24:20,000
even married at that time. Probably not.
645
01:24:20,500 --> 01:24:23,333
Yeah. In fact, I'm pretty sure my dad
646
01:24:23,333 --> 01:24:25,375
took a date to the film Jaws and she
647
01:24:25,375 --> 01:24:27,291
asked him how they trained the shark to
648
01:24:27,291 --> 01:24:29,541
do that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm fairly
649
01:24:29,541 --> 01:24:31,375
certain that he's told me that story
650
01:24:31,375 --> 01:24:34,000
before. So there you go. Interesting.
651
01:24:34,166 --> 01:24:35,541
Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
652
01:24:35,875 --> 01:24:37,666
Yeah. I just I just wanted a bunch of my hooligan thug teenage friends to come in and talk to me about the story.
653
01:24:39,666 --> 01:24:42,041
I just wanted a bunch of his cousins because I was at that age where our mom
654
01:24:42,041 --> 01:24:44,000
our moms dropped to soft to watch movies.
655
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,791
So yeah. So a horror film. Yeah, well, I
656
01:24:47,791 --> 01:24:50,458
grew up in Monterrey. So it was like, you
657
01:24:50,458 --> 01:24:52,333
know, I was diving and surfing and stuff
658
01:24:52,333 --> 01:24:54,375
at that point. So like shark, you just
659
01:24:54,375 --> 01:24:55,458
knew sharks were around to be an
660
01:24:55,458 --> 01:24:56,458
occasional sharky Sierra texts. You
661
01:24:56,458 --> 01:24:58,333
didn't think. But people that came in
662
01:24:58,333 --> 01:24:59,791
from like out of the area, it was a
663
01:24:59,791 --> 01:25:01,458
bigger deal. If they saw a shark or
664
01:25:01,458 --> 01:25:03,250
something. It was more the sensational
665
01:25:03,250 --> 01:25:05,250
stuff you read about or hear about. Yeah, that would be highlighted, there was highlighted there. But if you grew up in Monterrey. If that saved, I mean, usually someone inochemistry was, they could
666
01:25:05,250 --> 01:25:06,750
don't explain. Yeah, I mean, an afternoon where you don't take off a fire in an individualASED video in Lab tan next to the you're here about, yeah,
667
01:25:06,958 --> 01:25:08,125
that would be highlighted there.
668
01:25:08,333 --> 01:25:09,791
It was highlighted there, but if you grew
669
01:25:09,791 --> 01:25:10,625
up around the ocean,
670
01:25:11,500 --> 01:25:12,500
you just, you know,
671
01:25:12,500 --> 01:25:13,666
sharks are around, you know,
672
01:25:13,666 --> 01:25:15,166
sometimes things happen.
673
01:25:15,166 --> 01:25:15,958
It's that mystery of
674
01:25:15,958 --> 01:25:17,333
something you don't know, right?
675
01:25:17,333 --> 01:25:20,208
It's an alien thing, so it creates,
676
01:25:20,458 --> 01:25:22,416
it gets bigger in your mind
677
01:25:22,416 --> 01:25:24,208
when it's so distant, right?
678
01:25:24,666 --> 01:25:25,500
Well, yeah, the thing at
679
01:25:25,500 --> 01:25:26,625
the time too is like you,
680
01:25:26,875 --> 01:25:29,291
there was no, you couldn't even like,
681
01:25:30,666 --> 01:25:31,916
especially when you're a young person,
682
01:25:32,166 --> 01:25:33,750
and we knew nothing about sharks,
683
01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:35,000
to say you didn't know anything about it
684
01:25:35,041 --> 01:25:36,375
would be an understatement at the time.
685
01:25:36,875 --> 01:25:37,666
You knew nothing about
686
01:25:37,666 --> 01:25:39,000
them, so you'd think like,
687
01:25:39,583 --> 01:25:41,000
even things like I always tell the story,
688
01:25:41,375 --> 01:25:42,000
like, you know, the big,
689
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:43,125
one of the climactic scenes
690
01:25:43,125 --> 01:25:44,000
of the shark jumping on
691
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:45,000
the boat and eating Quint,
692
01:25:45,500 --> 01:25:46,625
you know, back then
693
01:25:46,625 --> 01:25:48,375
people thought it was crazy,
694
01:25:48,375 --> 01:25:49,333
oh, sharks can't jump.
695
01:25:49,916 --> 01:25:51,958
And there was, you
696
01:25:51,958 --> 01:25:53,875
know, so, so it was, yeah,
697
01:25:53,875 --> 01:25:55,000
I mean, you literally
698
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:56,541
thought like, you know, I mean,
699
01:25:56,541 --> 01:25:57,625
I knew a lot of the big imp,
700
01:25:58,041 --> 01:25:59,583
you know, prominent people,
701
01:25:59,583 --> 01:26:00,666
like, well, I didn't know him at the time
702
01:26:00,666 --> 01:26:01,291
I was in high school,
703
01:26:01,416 --> 01:26:02,708
but you know, years later,
704
01:26:02,791 --> 01:26:03,416
I got to know Leonard
705
01:26:03,416 --> 01:26:05,375
Campagno and Don Nelson and, uh,
706
01:26:06,250 --> 01:26:07,541
Sonny Gruber and all those guys.
707
01:26:08,958 --> 01:26:09,875
No one really thought
708
01:26:09,875 --> 01:26:11,250
sharks could jump at all.
709
01:26:11,458 --> 01:26:11,625
No.
710
01:26:11,750 --> 01:26:12,416
And, uh,
711
01:26:12,416 --> 01:26:12,875
Only fur seals.
712
01:26:13,416 --> 01:26:14,208
Only fur seals.
713
01:26:14,333 --> 01:26:15,041
Yeah, only fur seals.
714
01:26:15,291 --> 01:26:17,333
And yeah, and I, I know I've told the
715
01:26:17,333 --> 01:26:18,291
story many times in the episode,
716
01:26:18,291 --> 01:26:19,791
but I remember seeing the first time I
717
01:26:19,791 --> 01:26:20,791
saw it in South Africa,
718
01:26:21,500 --> 01:26:22,541
the local people in
719
01:26:22,541 --> 01:26:23,875
South Africa knew about it,
720
01:26:23,875 --> 01:26:25,250
but nobody in the outside world did
721
01:26:25,250 --> 01:26:26,041
because nobody had filmed.
722
01:26:26,375 --> 01:26:27,500
This is before Chris Fallows.
723
01:26:28,375 --> 01:26:30,791
And, um, I remember telling people like
724
01:26:30,791 --> 01:26:32,666
the people I mentioned and Macott,
725
01:26:32,708 --> 01:26:33,625
I thought it was nuts or
726
01:26:33,625 --> 01:26:35,000
drunk or stoned or something.
727
01:26:35,750 --> 01:26:37,000
And then, and then if, then
728
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:38,458
after I left South Africa,
729
01:26:38,458 --> 01:26:41,291
Chris Fallows filmed it and suddenly
730
01:26:41,291 --> 01:26:42,166
everybody's going, Hey, Dave,
731
01:26:42,166 --> 01:26:43,416
you know, these white sharks breach.
732
01:26:43,416 --> 01:26:44,416
And I'm like, yeah, I kind of told you
733
01:26:44,416 --> 01:26:46,416
that like, you know, five years ago.
734
01:26:46,458 --> 01:26:47,708
But why are we not listening to the,
735
01:26:48,875 --> 01:26:49,958
You just didn't do it in a nice
736
01:26:49,958 --> 01:26:51,291
photograph, like, uh,
737
01:26:51,291 --> 01:26:52,375
like Chris Fallows or,
738
01:26:52,833 --> 01:26:55,375
or, uh, you know, a shark week, uh,
739
01:26:56,166 --> 01:26:58,166
Jeff courage. Yeah, Jeff courage stuff.
740
01:26:58,500 --> 01:26:59,041
But that, yeah.
741
01:26:59,166 --> 01:27:00,500
So, but anyway, but I
742
01:27:00,500 --> 01:27:01,625
think I just said that,
743
01:27:02,041 --> 01:27:03,208
and it's really a little reminiscent, but
744
01:27:03,208 --> 01:27:05,000
it's like just how far we've come in the
745
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:06,583
50 years now you've got these fabulous
746
01:27:06,583 --> 01:27:08,791
books like, like you're doing now.
747
01:27:08,791 --> 01:27:10,291
And you know, there's a lot of certainly
748
01:27:10,291 --> 01:27:11,166
see a lot of, a lot
749
01:27:11,166 --> 01:27:12,208
of women in the field.
750
01:27:12,208 --> 01:27:14,458
And it's just been a, the field, the
751
01:27:14,458 --> 01:27:17,375
fields just come so far from, from that,
752
01:27:17,375 --> 01:27:18,916
from that time. And it's, it's going to
753
01:27:18,916 --> 01:27:20,375
be an interesting thing with, uh,
754
01:27:20,791 --> 01:27:23,500
with the jaws 50 years coming up and, uh,
755
01:27:23,500 --> 01:27:24,250
and all these nice,
756
01:27:24,250 --> 01:27:26,000
wonderful books out now,
757
01:27:27,208 --> 01:27:28,625
for sure. It'll be really neat to see.
758
01:27:29,291 --> 01:27:30,541
Um, so you can be doing,
759
01:27:30,541 --> 01:27:32,000
so you can be doing any more, any, any
760
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:33,500
more promotional things coming up.
761
01:27:33,500 --> 01:27:34,583
You're going to be doing with the book.
762
01:27:34,583 --> 01:27:35,958
I've got a couple of lectures coming up.
763
01:27:35,958 --> 01:27:37,458
I'm really excited about, um,
764
01:27:37,458 --> 01:27:39,791
one of them actually at my, the
765
01:27:39,791 --> 01:27:40,875
university that I did my
766
01:27:40,875 --> 01:27:41,916
undergraduate degree on.
767
01:27:41,916 --> 01:27:44,416
So I get to come back and like, you know,
768
01:27:44,416 --> 01:27:46,500
a rock star alumnus and sort of,
769
01:27:46,500 --> 01:27:48,125
yeah, the halls again. And I think that's
770
01:27:48,125 --> 01:27:50,458
going to be quite surreal, but amazing.
771
01:27:50,625 --> 01:27:52,291
Cause I haven't been back there since I
772
01:27:52,291 --> 01:27:54,375
graduated, you know, 300 years ago.
773
01:27:54,625 --> 01:27:56,708
So it's going to be really, really cool
774
01:27:56,708 --> 01:27:58,833
to go back. Um, yeah,
775
01:27:58,833 --> 01:27:59,833
really excited for that.
776
01:28:00,416 --> 01:28:02,083
So when it's in the talks, like what are
777
01:28:02,083 --> 01:28:03,250
you going to be talking
778
01:28:03,250 --> 01:28:04,000
about? Obviously you're going
779
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:05,416
to be pulling stuff from the book and,
780
01:28:05,416 --> 01:28:07,000
and, and just stuff from your vast
781
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:08,458
library of, of material.
782
01:28:08,458 --> 01:28:12,208
But how do you present, you know, sharks
783
01:28:12,208 --> 01:28:15,125
to, to this, the, these
784
01:28:15,125 --> 01:28:16,208
classes or the people,
785
01:28:16,208 --> 01:28:18,291
these students who are attending? So it
786
01:28:18,291 --> 01:28:19,958
really depends on who I'm talking to.
787
01:28:19,958 --> 01:28:22,250
When I'm at a university, a lot of the
788
01:28:22,250 --> 01:28:23,833
people that are attending are, you know,
789
01:28:23,833 --> 01:28:26,333
sort of in science field, you know, so
790
01:28:26,333 --> 01:28:27,208
these are people that are
791
01:28:27,208 --> 01:28:29,791
quite open to quite advanced
792
01:28:29,791 --> 01:28:31,833
lectures, which is great. So I go into a
793
01:28:31,833 --> 01:28:32,625
little bit of the sort of
794
01:28:32,625 --> 01:28:33,833
taxonomy and all the different
795
01:28:33,833 --> 01:28:36,416
groups and how we tell them apart and
796
01:28:36,416 --> 01:28:38,250
reproductive strategies is one of my
797
01:28:38,250 --> 01:28:39,708
favorite things to talk
798
01:28:39,708 --> 01:28:41,291
about. I love it so much. And people
799
01:28:41,291 --> 01:28:42,833
always get mind blown by
800
01:28:42,833 --> 01:28:45,500
that. Um, but when I'm going sort
801
01:28:45,500 --> 01:28:47,375
of more towards the public, I love to do
802
01:28:47,375 --> 01:28:49,625
like fun shark quizzes where
803
01:28:49,625 --> 01:28:51,416
I put up sort of facts that
804
01:28:51,458 --> 01:28:53,875
people think they know about sharks and,
805
01:28:53,875 --> 01:28:54,666
you know, and then I'm
806
01:28:54,666 --> 01:28:56,125
like, Nope, you're wrong. That's
807
01:28:56,291 --> 01:28:59,416
false, you know, and pull out great
808
01:28:59,416 --> 01:29:00,958
statistics about shark attacks that
809
01:29:00,958 --> 01:29:02,125
always surprise people,
810
01:29:02,125 --> 01:29:04,250
you know, like you're for every one
811
01:29:04,250 --> 01:29:05,875
person bitten by a shark, just five
812
01:29:05,875 --> 01:29:07,416
people bitten by New Yorkers
813
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:13,250
is one that goes really well. So I always
814
01:29:13,250 --> 01:29:14,916
kind of, I sort of try to
815
01:29:14,916 --> 01:29:17,666
keep it quite light. I think that
816
01:29:17,833 --> 01:29:20,958
fun is the way to learn. The more fun it
817
01:29:20,958 --> 01:29:22,791
is, the more people are laughing, they
818
01:29:22,791 --> 01:29:24,208
are remembering things, you know,
819
01:29:24,208 --> 01:29:26,291
when they're having a pint later on with
820
01:29:26,291 --> 01:29:27,541
a friend, they're going, Oh,
821
01:29:27,541 --> 01:29:29,291
I heard this crazy fact about
822
01:29:29,291 --> 01:29:30,541
sharks. And then they share it with
823
01:29:30,541 --> 01:29:32,791
somebody else, you know, and yeah, joy
824
01:29:32,791 --> 01:29:34,458
spreads that way. So I
825
01:29:34,458 --> 01:29:36,833
always try to make it quite fun. I don't
826
01:29:36,833 --> 01:29:38,291
want those dusty lecturers
827
01:29:38,291 --> 01:29:40,083
that you know, that sleep in the
828
01:29:40,083 --> 01:29:43,375
back row. Yeah, no stories. You're not
829
01:29:43,375 --> 01:29:44,416
just telling facts. You're
830
01:29:44,416 --> 01:29:46,250
not just going to be a textbook.
831
01:29:46,416 --> 01:29:47,500
You're doing what you're doing in the
832
01:29:47,500 --> 01:29:49,041
book and trying to lighten
833
01:29:49,041 --> 01:29:50,375
it up, you know, bring emotion
834
01:29:50,500 --> 01:29:52,291
into it, you know, get people to really
835
01:29:52,291 --> 01:29:53,458
understand where these where
836
01:29:53,458 --> 01:29:54,458
these sharks are coming from.
837
01:29:54,666 --> 01:29:56,000
Yeah. Like so you want to inspire people.
838
01:29:56,583 --> 01:29:58,791
Yeah. Yeah. To to to to, you know, I
839
01:29:58,791 --> 01:29:59,875
mean, most, you know,
840
01:29:59,875 --> 01:30:01,541
I think I think I think it's always good
841
01:30:01,541 --> 01:30:03,166
to like, if you can inspire people, most
842
01:30:03,166 --> 01:30:03,708
people are not going
843
01:30:03,708 --> 01:30:05,125
to do sharks. It's just it's just not not
844
01:30:05,125 --> 01:30:07,333
it's not that big a field. Everybody
845
01:30:07,333 --> 01:30:08,291
grows out of that. And
846
01:30:08,291 --> 01:30:09,750
for the most part, but you want to, but
847
01:30:09,750 --> 01:30:11,416
if you can inspire people that for
848
01:30:11,416 --> 01:30:12,291
whatever they pursue,
849
01:30:12,291 --> 01:30:14,333
I think is an important thing to just
850
01:30:14,333 --> 01:30:15,333
they'll go out for whatever
851
01:30:15,333 --> 01:30:16,041
they do want to do. They'll just
852
01:30:16,083 --> 01:30:18,166
get inspired about it. I think that's
853
01:30:18,166 --> 01:30:19,583
that's kind of like, I think an important
854
01:30:19,583 --> 01:30:21,083
message to bring. Yeah.
855
01:30:21,500 --> 01:30:23,666
As a as a woman, that's really important
856
01:30:23,666 --> 01:30:24,875
for me as well, you know,
857
01:30:25,166 --> 01:30:28,000
because every time I meet young
858
01:30:28,166 --> 01:30:30,666
women who are studying or training or
859
01:30:30,666 --> 01:30:31,625
just interested people
860
01:30:31,625 --> 01:30:33,208
that are just curious, it's
861
01:30:33,208 --> 01:30:35,125
always lovely to hear, you know, it's so
862
01:30:35,125 --> 01:30:37,125
great that we see a woman doing this.
863
01:30:37,125 --> 01:30:38,541
And, you know, maybe my
864
01:30:38,541 --> 01:30:39,958
daughter could do this. And I'm like,
865
01:30:39,958 --> 01:30:41,875
your daughter can do this. A hundred
866
01:30:41,875 --> 01:30:42,958
percent. Like, come on.
867
01:30:42,958 --> 01:30:46,416
And I didn't realize, you know, I had a
868
01:30:46,416 --> 01:30:47,791
student in the Bahamas in
869
01:30:47,791 --> 01:30:49,000
the summer sort of say to me,
870
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:51,041
you know, she gave me a hug and said, Oh,
871
01:30:51,041 --> 01:30:51,541
my God, you're my
872
01:30:51,541 --> 01:30:55,916
inspiration. And I was like, wow. Yeah,
873
01:30:56,041 --> 01:30:59,166
that's incredible. Like, yeah, go on
874
01:30:59,166 --> 01:31:00,750
rockstar and go do your
875
01:31:00,750 --> 01:31:02,291
thing and be amazing. It's
876
01:31:02,541 --> 01:31:04,291
yes, an amazing thing to
877
01:31:04,291 --> 01:31:05,916
inspire people. That's a
878
01:31:06,791 --> 01:31:08,625
you're inspiring people like through like
879
01:31:08,625 --> 01:31:09,625
a different way of you
880
01:31:09,625 --> 01:31:10,541
and Dan are writing this
881
01:31:10,541 --> 01:31:12,458
book in a very different way. And I love
882
01:31:12,458 --> 01:31:14,416
the headings. I'm just looking over. So
883
01:31:14,416 --> 01:31:16,875
much fun with that. I fought for those.
884
01:31:17,416 --> 01:31:19,583
They kept trying to take them out. And
885
01:31:19,583 --> 01:31:21,333
they sent the draft back and I would just
886
01:31:21,333 --> 01:31:24,041
politely delete them and put them back in
887
01:31:25,583 --> 01:31:27,208
without saying anything. Just like this
888
01:31:27,208 --> 01:31:30,000
back. This is just a little passive, you
889
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:31,500
know, eventually somebody
890
01:31:31,500 --> 01:31:32,875
will miss this and it'll just
891
01:31:32,958 --> 01:31:35,291
definitely. Well, the one that really
892
01:31:35,291 --> 01:31:37,291
stands out to me is like, you know,
893
01:31:37,291 --> 01:31:39,500
sharks that break the rules. Oh, yeah,
894
01:31:39,750 --> 01:31:41,500
that heading. So what what
895
01:31:41,500 --> 01:31:42,375
do you what is meant? Like,
896
01:31:42,375 --> 01:31:44,541
what can people expect from that? From
897
01:31:44,541 --> 01:31:46,000
that section? That was my absolute
898
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:48,041
favorite section to write. And I
899
01:31:48,041 --> 01:31:49,875
loved it so much because Dan sort of said
900
01:31:49,875 --> 01:31:50,708
to me, he was like, Sophie,
901
01:31:51,125 --> 01:31:53,625
this is your forte. I'm going
902
01:31:53,625 --> 01:31:56,000
to step back, just go to town on it and
903
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:58,208
just have fun. And I just, you know,
904
01:31:58,416 --> 01:31:59,250
wrapped my brains for
905
01:31:59,291 --> 01:32:01,958
it was all of the things that I had
906
01:32:01,958 --> 01:32:04,416
learned about sharks that blew my mind,
907
01:32:04,750 --> 01:32:07,541
you know, like, wait, sharks can glow.
908
01:32:07,541 --> 01:32:08,833
Some sharks glow in the dark.
909
01:32:09,208 --> 01:32:11,541
What? Right. That can't be true. You
910
01:32:11,541 --> 01:32:13,708
know, some sharks can throw their jaw out
911
01:32:13,708 --> 01:32:15,708
their mouth. That can't be true. Sharks
912
01:32:15,708 --> 01:32:17,250
use their tail as a whip.
913
01:32:17,250 --> 01:32:19,333
You know, all these things that are just
914
01:32:19,333 --> 01:32:22,750
mind blowing. And I use the term James
915
01:32:22,750 --> 01:32:25,333
Bond shark to refer to that stereotype.
916
01:32:25,750 --> 01:32:28,541
You know, it's the gray reef shark
917
01:32:28,541 --> 01:32:30,958
looking shark. That's not what sharks
918
01:32:30,958 --> 01:32:33,000
are. And so with that chapter, we really
919
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:33,833
wanted to show people
920
01:32:33,833 --> 01:32:36,333
sharks are not this one thing.
921
01:32:36,333 --> 01:32:38,833
It's not shark. You know, there's
922
01:32:38,833 --> 01:32:40,583
hundreds and they're all different and
923
01:32:40,583 --> 01:32:44,291
they're all crazy. You know, do you talk?
924
01:32:44,291 --> 01:32:45,708
I haven't gone through the entire book
925
01:32:45,708 --> 01:32:46,708
yet, but you get into raise
926
01:32:46,708 --> 01:32:48,291
raise or go sharks much at all.
927
01:32:48,708 --> 01:32:51,083
We haven't. No. So we kept it sort of
928
01:32:51,083 --> 01:32:53,666
just to shark. We briefly touch upon sort
929
01:32:53,666 --> 01:32:55,541
of saw fishes and things and very
930
01:32:55,541 --> 01:32:58,708
briefly. But no, it's I feel like we'd
931
01:32:58,708 --> 01:32:59,875
need a whole other book for that.
932
01:33:00,208 --> 01:33:01,416
Princeton. Well, that's what it sounds
933
01:33:01,416 --> 01:33:02,916
like. I think it just kind of came up
934
01:33:02,916 --> 01:33:05,291
with that idea. I mean, you have to get
935
01:33:05,291 --> 01:33:07,541
on it and maybe bring Dave in to talk
936
01:33:07,541 --> 01:33:09,250
about sharks in the deep sea.
937
01:33:09,291 --> 01:33:12,416
Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Well, my next
938
01:33:12,416 --> 01:33:13,500
book is going to be on the ghost sharks
939
01:33:13,500 --> 01:33:14,916
of the world. So
940
01:33:14,916 --> 01:33:17,708
Princeton's publishing that one.
941
01:33:18,166 --> 01:33:20,500
Awesome. So we'll get that one out there.
942
01:33:20,500 --> 01:33:22,166
Yeah. Well, as we talk, you'll probably
943
01:33:22,166 --> 01:33:23,666
find this out if you haven't already. But
944
01:33:23,666 --> 01:33:25,500
if you we talk about the rays and the and
945
01:33:25,500 --> 01:33:27,875
the chimeras, if you call them flat
946
01:33:27,875 --> 01:33:30,000
sharks or ghost sharks, you'll get a
947
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:30,500
whole different
948
01:33:30,500 --> 01:33:31,500
reaction from the audience.
949
01:33:31,666 --> 01:33:34,500
And you will, if you say raise or yeah,
950
01:33:34,500 --> 01:33:37,291
it's or it's or chimeras, you know, manna
951
01:33:37,291 --> 01:33:38,916
rays in soft fish, you get a
952
01:33:38,916 --> 01:33:40,000
little bit of the reaction.
953
01:33:40,250 --> 01:33:42,333
But yeah, but even even the soft fish,
954
01:33:42,333 --> 01:33:43,625
you don't get as much of a reaction
955
01:33:43,625 --> 01:33:45,875
unless you start talking about shark rays
956
01:33:45,875 --> 01:33:47,833
or if you somehow work shark into the
957
01:33:47,833 --> 01:33:49,125
name, you get a much
958
01:33:49,125 --> 01:33:50,208
better reaction than.
959
01:33:50,625 --> 01:33:52,916
Yeah. And just crazy how powerful that
960
01:33:52,916 --> 01:33:54,541
language is, isn't it? It's just this
961
01:33:54,541 --> 01:33:56,791
subtle language can change the way you
962
01:33:56,791 --> 01:33:57,583
think about the animal
963
01:33:57,583 --> 01:33:59,875
completely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
964
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:03,125
Yeah. I stumbled onto that 15 years ago.
965
01:34:03,125 --> 01:34:05,208
I really saw the power of like, wow, if
966
01:34:05,208 --> 01:34:08,125
you use the right terminology, you'll
967
01:34:08,125 --> 01:34:10,416
just get amazing, amazing
968
01:34:10,416 --> 01:34:12,416
response from this stuff.
969
01:34:13,500 --> 01:34:15,750
So one of the things I want to ask, too,
970
01:34:15,750 --> 01:34:18,583
as we as we kind of wrap up, Sophie, is
971
01:34:18,583 --> 01:34:21,000
you've written a lot about
972
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:23,833
sharks online and posted online.
973
01:34:24,583 --> 01:34:27,041
What's the shark that surprised you most
974
01:34:27,041 --> 01:34:28,750
that people were really paying attention
975
01:34:28,750 --> 01:34:30,458
to, like, you know, that may not have
976
01:34:30,458 --> 01:34:31,625
been in the regular conversation?
977
01:34:31,958 --> 01:34:33,458
Is there is there a particular species
978
01:34:33,458 --> 01:34:35,083
that have come out being like you've
979
01:34:35,083 --> 01:34:36,083
written about you're like, I don't think
980
01:34:36,083 --> 01:34:37,416
this is really going to hit well.
981
01:34:37,416 --> 01:34:38,500
And then all of a sudden people are
982
01:34:38,500 --> 01:34:40,291
generating a lot of interest about. Oh,
983
01:34:40,875 --> 01:34:42,583
that's a really good question.
984
01:34:42,583 --> 01:34:44,750
The one that springs to mind that is one
985
01:34:44,750 --> 01:34:47,125
that I didn't realize was as famous as it
986
01:34:47,125 --> 01:34:48,333
is is the Goblin Shark.
987
01:34:49,083 --> 01:34:51,333
You know, I love. Yeah. I have no idea
988
01:34:51,333 --> 01:34:52,958
that it was such a fan favorite.
989
01:34:53,833 --> 01:34:57,000
But it really is. But you put something
990
01:34:57,000 --> 01:34:59,541
out about a Goblin Shark and people love
991
01:34:59,541 --> 01:35:01,166
it. I think there's a lot more interest
992
01:35:01,166 --> 01:35:03,958
in this mysterious deep sea.
993
01:35:04,666 --> 01:35:06,708
What is down there? Sort of crazy
994
01:35:06,708 --> 01:35:10,166
monsters idea than we knew about before.
995
01:35:10,416 --> 01:35:11,625
And as the technology is getting better,
996
01:35:11,625 --> 01:35:12,708
we're learning more and more.
997
01:35:12,958 --> 01:35:14,250
And those characters, you know, in the
998
01:35:14,250 --> 01:35:15,583
deep sea are starting to become a bit
999
01:35:15,583 --> 01:35:18,083
more, more iconic, really.
1000
01:35:18,958 --> 01:35:21,208
Even just the name Goblin Shark generates
1001
01:35:21,208 --> 01:35:22,791
interest. Right. So good.
1002
01:35:23,458 --> 01:35:25,916
Well, the thing is, if if you see them in
1003
01:35:25,916 --> 01:35:28,666
the wild, which I have there and I tell
1004
01:35:28,666 --> 01:35:30,083
us the audience is they're they're
1005
01:35:30,083 --> 01:35:31,458
literally they're pink with bluish fins
1006
01:35:31,458 --> 01:35:34,541
and like whoever thinks of a pink shark.
1007
01:35:35,125 --> 01:35:37,625
No, exactly. That is so cool.
1008
01:35:38,375 --> 01:35:39,416
That's what that's one of the things I
1009
01:35:39,416 --> 01:35:42,208
talk I talk about people like they think
1010
01:35:42,208 --> 01:35:42,875
sharks are kind of
1011
01:35:42,875 --> 01:35:44,583
gray or brown or black.
1012
01:35:44,833 --> 01:35:47,958
But whoever thinks of a pink shark and no
1013
01:35:47,958 --> 01:35:49,125
street everything. Yeah.
1014
01:35:49,166 --> 01:35:50,208
Well, the thing is, once you preserve
1015
01:35:50,208 --> 01:35:52,291
them, once you preserve them and after
1016
01:35:52,291 --> 01:35:54,833
they're dead, they turn brownish. Right.
1017
01:35:54,833 --> 01:35:56,375
And so people didn't realize if you see
1018
01:35:56,375 --> 01:35:57,916
one alive in the wild,
1019
01:35:57,916 --> 01:35:59,583
they'll be pinkish to a whitish.
1020
01:35:59,583 --> 01:36:01,416
But we see one with like this can be a
1021
01:36:01,416 --> 01:36:03,166
more of the pinkish side with the kind of
1022
01:36:03,166 --> 01:36:05,458
a tinge of bluish fins. Wow.
1023
01:36:05,666 --> 01:36:06,958
It's it's like nobody
1024
01:36:06,958 --> 01:36:08,500
thinks about that for a shark.
1025
01:36:09,625 --> 01:36:11,333
I guess I didn't know that. So I'm now
1026
01:36:11,333 --> 01:36:13,166
going to my computer and I'm going to do
1027
01:36:13,166 --> 01:36:13,875
another little fast
1028
01:36:13,875 --> 01:36:15,125
fact for the Web site.
1029
01:36:15,166 --> 01:36:17,500
Yeah, you have to write another book.
1030
01:36:17,875 --> 01:36:21,291
Yeah, I think that's the book title.
1031
01:36:21,291 --> 01:36:23,916
That's the book. That's my
1032
01:36:23,916 --> 01:36:25,708
autobiography title right there.
1033
01:36:26,958 --> 01:36:31,166
Well, I love this.
1034
01:36:31,833 --> 01:36:33,000
So you're going to be promoting the book
1035
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:34,625
so people can check on the Web site of
1036
01:36:34,625 --> 01:36:35,833
where you're going to be showing up.
1037
01:36:35,833 --> 01:36:37,958
Is that absolutely. And I'm going to all
1038
01:36:37,958 --> 01:36:39,583
on my social media feeds, which you can
1039
01:36:39,583 --> 01:36:40,750
find through my Web site.
1040
01:36:41,250 --> 01:36:43,083
So I'm very active on social media and
1041
01:36:43,083 --> 01:36:45,000
I'll sort of like post a lot of stuff
1042
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:46,000
about where I'm going to be.
1043
01:36:46,333 --> 01:36:47,458
And also, OK, everyone
1044
01:36:47,458 --> 01:36:48,541
could just reach out to me.
1045
01:36:48,541 --> 01:36:50,166
My email is on there. Please feel free to
1046
01:36:50,166 --> 01:36:51,166
like get in touch or
1047
01:36:51,166 --> 01:36:52,583
ask questions or whatever.
1048
01:36:52,583 --> 01:36:55,041
I love hearing from people. Great.
1049
01:36:55,041 --> 01:36:55,791
Perfect. Well, that's good.
1050
01:36:55,791 --> 01:36:57,250
We'll have all that stuff up there and
1051
01:36:57,250 --> 01:36:59,291
we'll when the thing comes out, we'll
1052
01:36:59,291 --> 01:37:01,458
we'll definitely promote it.
1053
01:37:01,708 --> 01:37:03,750
And hopefully people buy lots of people
1054
01:37:03,750 --> 01:37:05,625
buy the book. Yes. Yes.
1055
01:37:05,625 --> 01:37:08,500
And Sophie, can you just just tell
1056
01:37:08,500 --> 01:37:10,125
everybody the Web site just so that
1057
01:37:10,125 --> 01:37:12,250
people can get access to it? Yes.
1058
01:37:12,291 --> 01:37:14,791
So it's www dot Sophie
1059
01:37:14,791 --> 01:37:16,833
Maycock shark speak dot com.
1060
01:37:16,833 --> 01:37:18,833
And you can Google shark speak as well on
1061
01:37:18,833 --> 01:37:20,166
Facebook, on Instagram as well.
1062
01:37:20,166 --> 01:37:22,541
It's very findable. Yeah, not about what.
1063
01:37:22,666 --> 01:37:24,458
We'll also put the link in our show notes
1064
01:37:24,458 --> 01:37:26,458
that people can get access to as well.
1065
01:37:27,416 --> 01:37:29,291
So this has been so great to have you.
1066
01:37:29,291 --> 01:37:30,791
We can't wait to have you on in here more
1067
01:37:30,791 --> 01:37:32,666
about your writing, whether it's a book
1068
01:37:32,666 --> 01:37:34,333
or on the Web site or on social media,
1069
01:37:34,500 --> 01:37:36,000
whatever that might be. We really
1070
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:36,958
appreciate you coming on.
1071
01:37:37,208 --> 01:37:38,458
Oh, thank you so much for having me,
1072
01:37:38,458 --> 01:37:39,708
guys. This has been so great.
1073
01:37:39,708 --> 01:37:41,375
I can't wait to come back. Thanks, guys.
1074
01:37:41,750 --> 01:37:43,416
Thank you, Sophie, for joining us on this
1075
01:37:43,416 --> 01:37:45,208
episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.
1076
01:37:45,208 --> 01:37:47,375
A bonus episode. I promise everybody we
1077
01:37:47,375 --> 01:37:49,833
will have Sophie on for the her full
1078
01:37:49,833 --> 01:37:52,041
journey to learn more about it in a full
1079
01:37:52,041 --> 01:37:54,000
episode very, very soon.
1080
01:37:54,666 --> 01:37:56,291
Dave, what did you think? Like what
1081
01:37:56,291 --> 01:37:57,166
you've had a chance to
1082
01:37:57,166 --> 01:37:58,125
roam through the book?
1083
01:37:58,458 --> 01:38:00,583
What do you think and peruse? What do you
1084
01:38:00,583 --> 01:38:01,708
think? What do you think about the book?
1085
01:38:02,041 --> 01:38:04,083
Terrific book. Terrific book. It was it
1086
01:38:04,083 --> 01:38:05,916
was it's definitely it's definitely a
1087
01:38:05,916 --> 01:38:09,000
this is a this is a get book to have.
1088
01:38:09,500 --> 01:38:12,750
And if you haven't gotten my books, there
1089
01:38:12,750 --> 01:38:15,250
you go. Yes, as well.
1090
01:38:15,958 --> 01:38:18,750
And it was really terrific. I just had
1091
01:38:18,750 --> 01:38:19,958
other than just
1092
01:38:19,958 --> 01:38:21,500
communicating through social media stuff.
1093
01:38:21,500 --> 01:38:22,041
I really didn't know
1094
01:38:22,041 --> 01:38:24,041
Sophie, but boy, she was electric.
1095
01:38:24,458 --> 01:38:26,666
I was just really had a great time
1096
01:38:26,666 --> 01:38:28,375
talking with her, talk to
1097
01:38:28,375 --> 01:38:29,166
her, talk about the book.
1098
01:38:29,208 --> 01:38:31,000
I think the whole way the book came about
1099
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:33,250
actually her whole her old website, the
1100
01:38:33,250 --> 01:38:36,583
Sophie Maycock shark speak the way that
1101
01:38:36,583 --> 01:38:38,208
came about and how she
1102
01:38:38,208 --> 01:38:39,583
got hooked up with Dan Abel.
1103
01:38:39,583 --> 01:38:43,208
It was just it was terrific and joy.
1104
01:38:43,208 --> 01:38:46,375
Talk a little bit about the Jaws fiftieth
1105
01:38:46,375 --> 01:38:48,500
anniversary, which you and Andrew and I
1106
01:38:48,500 --> 01:38:48,958
are going to have a
1107
01:38:48,958 --> 01:38:50,375
special episode coming up.
1108
01:38:50,750 --> 01:38:52,083
We'll talk about a little more later
1109
01:38:52,083 --> 01:38:54,625
coming in June when the shark week when
1110
01:38:54,625 --> 01:38:57,083
Jaws is fiftieth anniversary comes up.
1111
01:38:57,541 --> 01:39:00,000
And so anyway, but yeah, she was she was
1112
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:01,000
terrific. I'm really looking for.
1113
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:02,041
We're definitely going to have her back
1114
01:39:02,041 --> 01:39:05,125
on to share more of her journey and we'll
1115
01:39:05,125 --> 01:39:06,958
talk about I'm sure other things like
1116
01:39:06,958 --> 01:39:09,000
Sharknado and some of these other twisted
1117
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:11,000
things we enjoy talking about.
1118
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:13,500
I like that you twisted for for
1119
01:39:13,500 --> 01:39:14,916
tornadoes. Yeah, exactly.
1120
01:39:15,500 --> 01:39:17,083
You know, it was a great episode. Sophie
1121
01:39:17,083 --> 01:39:20,000
is an amazing person and a great
1122
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:21,458
scientist doing the good
1123
01:39:21,458 --> 01:39:22,833
work of science communication.
1124
01:39:23,291 --> 01:39:25,333
Obviously, we are biased because we are
1125
01:39:25,333 --> 01:39:28,125
definitely, you know, all all like
1126
01:39:28,125 --> 01:39:29,875
everything is in all in on
1127
01:39:29,875 --> 01:39:32,041
on on science communication.
1128
01:39:32,916 --> 01:39:34,666
And it's just it's a lot of fun.
1129
01:39:34,666 --> 01:39:36,833
As Sophie mentioned, we have a lot of fun
1130
01:39:36,833 --> 01:39:38,541
doing it and sort of she and I think
1131
01:39:38,541 --> 01:39:40,833
that's where we really connected here.
1132
01:39:40,833 --> 01:39:41,791
And I think it'll
1133
01:39:41,791 --> 01:39:43,291
connect with with our audience.
1134
01:39:43,541 --> 01:39:45,000
So it's really, really
1135
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:46,375
fun to have a Sophie on.
1136
01:39:46,375 --> 01:39:47,833
I'm going to put we're going to put the
1137
01:39:47,833 --> 01:39:49,833
the links to her book
1138
01:39:49,833 --> 01:39:51,125
through her website.
1139
01:39:51,875 --> 01:39:53,250
You can buy it. You can just click on
1140
01:39:53,250 --> 01:39:54,541
there and you can buy it through there
1141
01:39:54,541 --> 01:39:56,500
and then you get more
1142
01:39:56,500 --> 01:39:57,833
information on the book as well.
1143
01:39:58,458 --> 01:39:59,875
But I highly recommend that everybody
1144
01:39:59,875 --> 01:40:01,375
gets that gets the book.
1145
01:40:01,375 --> 01:40:03,416
It's a lot of fun. If you if you like I
1146
01:40:03,416 --> 01:40:04,750
said, if you thought you knew about
1147
01:40:04,750 --> 01:40:06,958
sharks, think again, because this this
1148
01:40:06,958 --> 01:40:08,458
book will really make you think.
1149
01:40:08,666 --> 01:40:10,041
And I think it's going to be I think
1150
01:40:10,041 --> 01:40:10,791
you're going to enjoy it.
1151
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:12,250
So go there.
1152
01:40:12,791 --> 01:40:15,375
Sharks beak Sophie Bangkok, sharks beak
1153
01:40:15,375 --> 01:40:17,583
dot com or we'll put the link in the show
1154
01:40:17,583 --> 01:40:19,166
notes and they can go for the book.
1155
01:40:19,583 --> 01:40:21,458
And we want to thank you, Dave.
1156
01:40:21,458 --> 01:40:22,666
We thank you. And of course, we want to
1157
01:40:22,666 --> 01:40:24,791
thank Sophie for joining us on today's
1158
01:40:24,791 --> 01:40:26,083
episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.
1159
01:40:26,083 --> 01:40:28,041
Thank you so much from David and I.
1160
01:40:28,041 --> 01:40:29,750
We really appreciate everybody listening,
1161
01:40:30,166 --> 01:40:31,458
supporting us on YouTube,
1162
01:40:32,500 --> 01:40:34,708
supporting us on Instagram.
1163
01:40:34,708 --> 01:40:36,000
Dave, people want to get to
1164
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:37,791
to follow you on Instagram.
1165
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:40,500
How do you just go find a lost shark guy
1166
01:40:40,500 --> 01:40:43,416
and Instagram and check out
1167
01:40:43,416 --> 01:40:45,333
check out our my YouTube thing.
1168
01:40:45,666 --> 01:40:48,375
Lost shark guy in the series Searching
1169
01:40:48,375 --> 01:40:49,416
for Lost Sharks, Extinct
1170
01:40:49,416 --> 01:40:50,875
or Live on YouTube now.
1171
01:40:51,250 --> 01:40:54,250
And it's a new series. Two episodes are
1172
01:40:54,250 --> 01:40:55,208
up for episode three.
1173
01:40:55,208 --> 01:40:57,541
We're going to have here soon. And also
1174
01:40:57,541 --> 01:40:59,541
so please subscribe there and also go to
1175
01:40:59,541 --> 01:41:01,125
the Beyond Jaws YouTube
1176
01:41:01,125 --> 01:41:02,708
site and subscribe there.
1177
01:41:02,708 --> 01:41:04,291
We really appreciate it. And and leave a
1178
01:41:04,291 --> 01:41:05,750
comment on both sites as well.
1179
01:41:05,750 --> 01:41:07,250
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, we'd
1180
01:41:07,250 --> 01:41:08,083
love to hear your feedback.
1181
01:41:08,291 --> 01:41:10,125
Love to hear how you love the show. Maybe
1182
01:41:10,125 --> 01:41:11,625
some some feedback, critical
1183
01:41:11,625 --> 01:41:12,708
feedback we'll take as well.
1184
01:41:13,583 --> 01:41:15,291
And yeah, we just love the fact that
1185
01:41:15,291 --> 01:41:16,500
you're listening. Thank you so much.
1186
01:41:16,916 --> 01:41:18,041
Have a great day. We'll talk to you next
1187
01:41:18,041 --> 01:41:19,333
time and happy conservation.
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,125
This is a bonus episode here on the
2
01:00:02,125 --> 01:00:03,000
Beyond Jaws podcast.
3
01:00:03,208 --> 01:00:04,708
We're gonna be talking to
4
01:00:04,708 --> 01:00:06,791
Sophie Maycock about her book.
5
01:00:07,208 --> 01:00:08,333
Let me put it in front here.
6
01:00:09,166 --> 01:00:11,541
Shark, a illustrated biography.
7
01:00:11,833 --> 01:00:12,416
If you thought you
8
01:00:12,416 --> 01:00:13,375
knew things about sharks,
9
01:00:14,083 --> 01:00:15,750
you might wanna take a look at this book
10
01:00:15,750 --> 01:00:16,458
because I think some
11
01:00:16,458 --> 01:00:17,708
of the information here
12
01:00:17,791 --> 01:00:19,291
will surprise you.
13
01:00:19,583 --> 01:00:21,208
And we're gonna talk all about that,
14
01:00:21,208 --> 01:00:22,375
especially the way that
15
01:00:22,375 --> 01:00:23,291
sharks have been presented
16
01:00:23,291 --> 01:00:25,416
in this book, not your typical book
17
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,458
that you would think for sharks.
18
01:00:27,666 --> 01:00:29,291
So this is gonna be a fun episode.
19
01:00:29,708 --> 01:00:30,875
Let's get started with the show.
20
01:00:31,041 --> 01:00:31,791
Hey everybody, welcome back
21
01:00:31,791 --> 01:00:33,000
to another exciting episode
22
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:34,541
of the Beyond Jaws podcast.
23
01:00:34,541 --> 01:00:35,708
A bonus episode.
24
01:00:36,208 --> 01:00:37,208
I'm your co-host Andrew
25
01:00:37,208 --> 01:00:38,416
Lewin here with my other co-host,
26
01:00:38,416 --> 01:00:39,666
Dr. David Ebert.
27
01:00:40,333 --> 01:00:42,000
Dave, are you ready to
28
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:43,125
talk about sharks today?
29
01:00:43,416 --> 01:00:44,166
Oh, absolutely.
30
01:00:44,166 --> 01:00:45,041
Especially we got a new
31
01:00:45,041 --> 01:00:46,083
shark book coming out.
32
01:00:46,083 --> 01:00:47,583
That's always a great one.
33
01:00:48,250 --> 01:00:51,125
And having Sophie Maycock on,
34
01:00:51,125 --> 01:00:54,500
she's just electric, was amazing.
35
01:00:54,875 --> 01:00:55,250
Oh yeah.
36
01:00:55,458 --> 01:00:56,875
It's gonna be an amazing interview.
37
01:00:56,875 --> 01:00:58,083
And I didn't really know her that much
38
01:00:58,083 --> 01:00:58,541
other than through
39
01:00:58,541 --> 01:00:58,666
social media and stuff.
40
01:00:58,708 --> 01:01:01,583
And of course her co-author Dan Abel,
41
01:01:01,583 --> 01:01:03,250
I've known for quite a few years.
42
01:01:04,083 --> 01:01:04,708
But yeah, I'm really
43
01:01:04,708 --> 01:01:05,791
looking forward to this one.
44
01:01:06,375 --> 01:01:07,375
Her episode talking a
45
01:01:07,375 --> 01:01:08,583
little bit about her background
46
01:01:08,583 --> 01:01:10,375
and how she got into doing the sharks.
47
01:01:10,708 --> 01:01:11,916
And I don't want to
48
01:01:11,916 --> 01:01:12,833
give away the episode,
49
01:01:12,833 --> 01:01:13,750
but listeners- Exactly.
50
01:01:14,416 --> 01:01:15,416
Super interesting how she
51
01:01:15,416 --> 01:01:16,541
got interested in doing the,
52
01:01:17,541 --> 01:01:19,000
doing this book and everything.
53
01:01:19,458 --> 01:01:20,958
So I hope you enjoy it.
54
01:01:21,291 --> 01:01:23,333
I really hope you enjoy it and definitely
55
01:01:23,333 --> 01:01:24,333
check out this episode.
56
01:01:24,833 --> 01:01:26,000
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
57
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:26,666
This is something that we all love to talk about, Dave,
58
01:01:26,666 --> 01:01:28,625
with the amount of
59
01:01:28,625 --> 01:01:29,666
books that you've written.
60
01:01:29,666 --> 01:01:31,875
And then of course, having Sophie for
61
01:01:31,875 --> 01:01:33,958
some who's writing of her first book,
62
01:01:34,500 --> 01:01:36,041
or who's written now, who had written her
63
01:01:36,041 --> 01:01:37,208
first book with a
64
01:01:37,208 --> 01:01:39,000
little legendary Daniel Abel,
65
01:01:39,541 --> 01:01:41,000
who we've had on the podcast before.
66
01:01:41,791 --> 01:01:43,083
So it's a lot of fun to be able to talk
67
01:01:43,083 --> 01:01:45,208
about how this all came to be,
68
01:01:45,958 --> 01:01:48,083
what came out of it, and then what she
69
01:01:48,083 --> 01:01:49,000
has planned for the future.
70
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:50,458
We talk all about that in this interview.
71
01:01:50,458 --> 01:01:50,833
So here's the
72
01:01:50,833 --> 01:01:52,291
interview with Sophie Maycock.
73
01:01:52,541 --> 01:01:54,000
Enjoy and we'll talk to you after.
74
01:01:54,291 --> 01:01:55,666
Hey Sophie, welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast.
75
01:01:56,708 --> 01:01:58,666
Are you ready to talk about sharks?
76
01:01:59,250 --> 01:02:00,791
I've always already talked about sharks.
77
01:02:01,666 --> 01:02:03,125
I love it.
78
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:05,666
Well, welcome everybody to another
79
01:02:05,666 --> 01:02:07,625
episode of Beyond Jaws podcast.
80
01:02:07,666 --> 01:02:10,291
We have a special bonus episode today
81
01:02:10,291 --> 01:02:12,708
with the fabulous Sophie Maycock as our
82
01:02:12,708 --> 01:02:14,333
guest to talk about her new book,
83
01:02:14,833 --> 01:02:16,666
Shark, the Illustrated Biography that she
84
01:02:16,666 --> 01:02:18,458
co-authored with Dan Abel,
85
01:02:18,666 --> 01:02:20,458
who was on the podcast last year and he's
86
01:02:20,458 --> 01:02:21,208
a professor at the
87
01:02:21,208 --> 01:02:22,666
Coastal Carolina University.
88
01:02:22,708 --> 01:02:25,541
Sophie is a specialist shark specialist
89
01:02:25,541 --> 01:02:27,541
and science communications expert who
90
01:02:27,541 --> 01:02:28,375
founded and runs a
91
01:02:28,375 --> 01:02:29,625
public outreach project,
92
01:02:30,375 --> 01:02:31,000
SharkSpeak.
93
01:02:31,416 --> 01:02:33,125
After earning her bachelor's degree in
94
01:02:33,125 --> 01:02:35,125
biological sciences and a master's in
95
01:02:35,125 --> 01:02:36,958
evolution, biodiversity and conservation,
96
01:02:37,625 --> 01:02:38,666
Sophie specialized in marine
97
01:02:38,666 --> 01:02:40,000
conservation and shark behavior.
98
01:02:40,625 --> 01:02:42,083
She's participated in a wide range of
99
01:02:42,083 --> 01:02:44,000
research projects and presented her work
100
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:45,083
at several scientific
101
01:02:45,083 --> 01:02:46,666
conferences around the world.
102
01:02:46,708 --> 01:02:49,208
She gained experience studying sharks in
103
01:02:49,208 --> 01:02:51,083
the lab and in the field in South Africa,
104
01:02:51,625 --> 01:02:52,250
Australia, the
105
01:02:52,250 --> 01:02:53,416
Netherlands and the Bahamas.
106
01:02:54,083 --> 01:02:55,291
And then after moving back to her home
107
01:02:55,291 --> 01:02:57,166
country of England, she now turned her
108
01:02:57,166 --> 01:02:58,666
attention to sharing her passion for
109
01:02:58,666 --> 01:03:00,375
sharks through various outreach projects.
110
01:03:01,083 --> 01:03:02,708
Shark speak has an extensive social media
111
01:03:02,708 --> 01:03:04,666
presence and Sophie also conducts public
112
01:03:04,666 --> 01:03:06,125
education events at
113
01:03:06,125 --> 01:03:07,666
bookshops, schools and universities.
114
01:03:08,333 --> 01:03:09,833
And this work has culminated in the book
115
01:03:09,833 --> 01:03:10,958
we're going to talk about today.
116
01:03:11,458 --> 01:03:12,666
Shark, the Illustrated Biography.
117
01:03:12,708 --> 01:03:15,208
Her background is she did her bachelor's
118
01:03:15,208 --> 01:03:17,333
degree at the University of East Anglica
119
01:03:17,333 --> 01:03:19,750
and her master's at University of Leiden.
120
01:03:20,625 --> 01:03:22,375
And Sophie, welcome to the show.
121
01:03:22,916 --> 01:03:24,250
Thank you so much for having me, guys.
122
01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:25,458
It's so great to be here.
123
01:03:26,333 --> 01:03:28,083
Cool. Well, you got to ask you if
124
01:03:28,083 --> 01:03:29,666
everybody wants to know, like, how do you
125
01:03:29,666 --> 01:03:30,583
get interested in sharks?
126
01:03:31,875 --> 01:03:34,166
By accident is the short version.
127
01:03:34,750 --> 01:03:37,375
The long version is that when I was a
128
01:03:37,375 --> 01:03:38,291
teenager, I had no
129
01:03:38,291 --> 01:03:38,666
idea what I wanted to do.
130
01:03:38,666 --> 01:03:42,125
I loved literature and I loved science
131
01:03:42,125 --> 01:03:43,333
and I didn't know what to do.
132
01:03:43,333 --> 01:03:46,333
So I decided I'll take a year out and I
133
01:03:46,333 --> 01:03:48,333
will go and travel to find myself, you
134
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know, like all teenagers say.
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But it ended up actually working out
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because I thought
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I'll volunteer somewhere.
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I picked randomly and I picked a great
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01:03:59,125 --> 01:04:00,250
white shark diving
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01:04:00,250 --> 01:04:01,708
experience in South Africa.
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And it was I only chose it because I
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thought I'd sound cool.
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I thought all my friends
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will think I'm really brave.
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But it really it really was a life
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changing moment, though.
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When I saw my first shark in the wild, I
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just had this amazing magical moment of
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like, oh, wow, everything I thought about
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these animals was completely wrong.
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And from that moment on, I decided I
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wanted to help other people understand
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why what they think
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about sharks is wrong.
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Were you down were you down at Muscle Bay or a cons by or when?
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01:04:33,708 --> 01:04:36,291
Yes, it was that Hans
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by in South Africa. Yeah.
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OK, I have to ask.
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I've spent a lot of time
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and lived in South Africa.
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I got I know all these like I had to ask
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where you were exactly.
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You went there.
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So that must have been
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quite a credit credit thing.
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Right.
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Jumping right into the white shark stuff
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pretty quickly from not.
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You grew up in it.
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Yeah, you grew up in England.
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Correct.
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Yeah.
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With the least watery background possible
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near Oxford in the landlocked center of
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England, you know, no sharks to be seen
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anywhere apart from
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on Attenborough shows.
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So, yeah, completely unlikely.
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But here I am.
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Was that your first encounter like when
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you watched
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Attenborough, you know, do his thing?
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Was that what made you really understand?
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OK, this is what I want to do or this is
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where I want to explore a little more.
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I always suspected I wanted to do
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something in science.
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So I always suspected I might go into that.
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Right.
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You know, when I was learning myself, so
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it was a bit of a trial by fire, really.
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01:06:22,875 --> 01:06:24,333
Yeah, but that was an interesting way
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01:06:24,333 --> 01:06:27,416
when you speak to the public about sharks
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01:06:27,416 --> 01:06:29,791
compared to learning about the science of
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01:06:29,791 --> 01:06:32,000
sharks, the anatomy, the physiology, the
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01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:33,666
genetics and even the ecology.
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You really start to understand what
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01:06:36,541 --> 01:06:38,000
people want to know
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about the animal to write.
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Did you find that when you were when you
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were doing those tours?
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01:06:41,708 --> 01:06:45,041
For sure. And what I love about what I do
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now is, you know, I do a lot of science
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communication stuff now.
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01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:49,791
Yeah. And the reason I fell in love with
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01:06:49,791 --> 01:06:52,083
it is because the public asked the most
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01:06:52,083 --> 01:06:54,500
incredible questions. Right.
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Amazing the things people come up with.
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01:06:57,458 --> 01:06:59,791
And I find myself going to know what I
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01:06:59,791 --> 01:07:01,875
don't know the answer. I'm going to have
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to research that I get back to you.
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And you don't get those questions from
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people in scientific world. You get a
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whole new sort of wonder from people that
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aren't in the field,
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which is just inspiring.
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01:07:15,833 --> 01:07:17,958
Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you went.
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01:07:18,125 --> 01:07:20,125
So after you did Australia, you've been
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01:07:20,125 --> 01:07:22,041
you made it to Australia and the Bahamas,
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01:07:22,041 --> 01:07:23,125
which are kind of some of the nicer
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01:07:23,125 --> 01:07:25,458
places to go as far as sharks.
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01:07:25,916 --> 01:07:27,958
But also the Netherlands. Don't forget
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01:07:27,958 --> 01:07:29,416
that. I just read the
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Netherlands. Yeah. Yeah.
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01:07:30,708 --> 01:07:35,125
Yeah. I did a lot of volunteer work. I
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01:07:35,125 --> 01:07:36,208
just thought, you know, this is something
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01:07:36,208 --> 01:07:38,250
I want to do. I'm just going to anywhere
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I go. I'm just going to sort of see if
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01:07:39,916 --> 01:07:42,750
there's anything I can do to volunteer in
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01:07:42,750 --> 01:07:45,375
the lab, in the field anywhere.
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01:07:45,375 --> 01:07:47,791
And it sort of brought me on this sort of
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01:07:47,791 --> 01:07:50,500
circuitous path all around the houses to
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01:07:50,500 --> 01:07:52,875
to where I am now. So quite
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01:07:52,875 --> 01:07:54,458
a strange way into academia.
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01:07:55,666 --> 01:07:58,875
Yes. So I had all these experiences that
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kind of like that really got you like,
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01:08:00,041 --> 01:08:01,458
OK, I want to be able to communicate
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01:08:01,458 --> 01:08:04,333
about sharks and everything. And so and
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01:08:04,333 --> 01:08:05,500
so how did how did
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you wind up coming back?
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01:08:06,750 --> 01:08:08,458
Well, besides being your home country,
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01:08:08,458 --> 01:08:09,791
how did you end up coming going back to
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01:08:09,791 --> 01:08:12,875
England? Well, that was really quite an
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01:08:12,875 --> 01:08:14,708
important moment as well, because I
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01:08:14,708 --> 01:08:16,375
finished my master's and I was thinking
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01:08:16,375 --> 01:08:17,666
I'm going to start applying for PhDs.
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01:08:17,708 --> 01:08:21,625
You know, my career is flying and I came
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01:08:21,625 --> 01:08:24,125
home to England and 11 days later, we
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went into the covid lockdown.
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01:08:25,125 --> 01:08:29,666
Oh, yeah. So I was. Oh, yeah.
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So I was in my 30s in my parents house
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thinking, oh, my God, I'm now trapped in
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01:08:35,750 --> 01:08:39,250
England for who knows how long. And I was
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losing my mind a bit in my house.
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01:08:40,541 --> 01:08:43,583
So I I thought, well, I can't do a PhD
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right now unless I put
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01:08:44,541 --> 01:08:45,416
some sharks in my bath.
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01:08:46,666 --> 01:08:49,666
So I thought, you know, we always talk
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01:08:49,666 --> 01:08:52,833
about reaching out to the public. Why
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don't I just start doing it? And I just
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01:08:54,125 --> 01:08:56,041
started writing articles and I started
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01:08:56,041 --> 01:08:58,375
setting up my website and I started
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01:08:58,375 --> 01:09:00,250
meeting the public online.
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And I thought, actually, this is really
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fun. And I started really enjoying it.
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And so I started shark speak and it's
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just exploded. And now it's sort of
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become my passion, really.
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01:09:09,666 --> 01:09:12,083
I'm not even in the field with sharks
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01:09:12,083 --> 01:09:14,458
that often I'm online talking to the
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01:09:14,458 --> 01:09:16,291
public about sharks, which is amazing.
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01:09:16,291 --> 01:09:19,958
Wow. Yeah. That's super interesting.
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01:09:19,958 --> 01:09:22,125
Turn in that situation into such an
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01:09:22,125 --> 01:09:25,541
outreach. So at that point in time, did
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you have like a very large network of
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01:09:27,500 --> 01:09:28,250
people that you knew in
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the shark world at all?
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I did. Yeah, because I've been going to
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conferences throughout my master's. So
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01:09:33,250 --> 01:09:34,541
I've met a few different people, which
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was amazing. And they
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really inspired me, you know.
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01:09:38,666 --> 01:09:40,500
So I did have a network, which was great,
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01:09:40,500 --> 01:09:42,875
but I found most of it all sort of just
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01:09:42,875 --> 01:09:45,416
came from social media is so powerful.
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01:09:45,416 --> 01:09:47,208
You can go on there and you can meet
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01:09:47,208 --> 01:09:48,250
people all over the world
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01:09:48,250 --> 01:09:49,916
and communicate this, you know.
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01:09:50,833 --> 01:09:53,916
And I had no idea that it would be as far
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01:09:53,916 --> 01:09:54,666
reaching as it has become.
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01:09:54,666 --> 01:09:57,583
If you just if we just use it for good,
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01:09:57,583 --> 01:10:00,958
right? Just social media for good. That
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01:10:00,958 --> 01:10:03,916
we're okay. Yes. If only,
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01:10:03,916 --> 01:10:05,208
right? What a perfect world.
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01:10:06,125 --> 01:10:08,083
I think it's interesting, you know, you
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01:10:08,083 --> 01:10:10,583
go into, you know, obviously a global
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pandemic. We all went into that
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01:10:12,375 --> 01:10:14,875
definitely changed a lot of people's
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01:10:14,875 --> 01:10:16,041
career paths, you know,
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01:10:16,166 --> 01:10:16,666
including including yours.
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01:10:17,666 --> 01:10:19,750
And all of a sudden you find yourself,
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01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:21,833
OK, I've got to build a site. I've got to
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01:10:21,833 --> 01:10:23,208
build a bigger presence. I've got to
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01:10:23,208 --> 01:10:25,500
start like looking at educational tools.
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01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:29,791
You know, how did you like figure out
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01:10:29,791 --> 01:10:31,625
like like, did you just kind of like, I'm
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01:10:31,625 --> 01:10:33,291
just going to see what happens. Like, I'm
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01:10:33,291 --> 01:10:35,416
just going to see like, did you go in as
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01:10:35,416 --> 01:10:37,000
this? This is going to be my business.
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01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:38,000
This is going to be my
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01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:39,666
like full time thing.
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01:10:39,708 --> 01:10:41,625
And so I'm going to think about making
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01:10:41,625 --> 01:10:44,500
money off of it. Or is this going to just
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01:10:44,500 --> 01:10:45,916
be something that I'm going to build my
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01:10:45,916 --> 01:10:48,458
profile, you know, figure out what people
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01:10:48,458 --> 01:10:51,375
need in the in the, you know, like with
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01:10:51,375 --> 01:10:52,333
the public and start
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01:10:52,333 --> 01:10:53,708
building that as a profile.
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01:10:54,208 --> 01:10:56,166
And then after this pandemic or as it
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01:10:56,166 --> 01:10:58,583
starts to sub like subside, then I'll
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01:10:58,583 --> 01:11:00,791
just kind of resume back to what I was
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01:11:00,791 --> 01:11:02,625
going to do and, you know, follow that
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01:11:02,625 --> 01:11:04,708
that dream of doing a PhD or working
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01:11:04,708 --> 01:11:07,125
within within the like the research field
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01:11:07,125 --> 01:11:07,666
or things like that.
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01:11:07,666 --> 01:11:10,250
So, you know, obviously a lot happened in
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01:11:10,250 --> 01:11:12,583
the last five years for you as well as as
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01:11:12,583 --> 01:11:15,250
as the world. Like when you went into it,
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01:11:15,250 --> 01:11:16,416
did you think of like, this is going to
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01:11:16,416 --> 01:11:17,916
be my full time thing or I'm just going
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01:11:17,916 --> 01:11:19,416
to do this as a way to keep me busy?
332
01:11:20,333 --> 01:11:23,125
Honestly, the latter, it was just I was
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01:11:23,125 --> 01:11:24,875
losing my mind locked in my house. I
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01:11:24,875 --> 01:11:27,750
wanted to keep my mind sharp and keep
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01:11:27,750 --> 01:11:30,000
that science mind sharp as well. Keep on
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01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:30,916
top of, you know, the
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01:11:30,916 --> 01:11:32,375
findings and what's happening.
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01:11:33,208 --> 01:11:36,166
And I thought I just want to just throw
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01:11:36,166 --> 01:11:37,625
it against the wall and see what sticks.
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01:11:38,208 --> 01:11:41,583
And it just became something that I found
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01:11:41,583 --> 01:11:45,333
I really enjoyed. And, you know, even
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01:11:45,333 --> 01:11:46,958
now, it's not something that I mean, I
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01:11:46,958 --> 01:11:48,750
would love it to be my full time job that
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01:11:48,750 --> 01:11:50,208
I can do day in day out.
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01:11:50,375 --> 01:11:51,625
But, you know, I'm not quite at the point
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01:11:51,625 --> 01:11:54,666
where I can quit my day job yet. But I
347
01:11:54,666 --> 01:11:58,416
still do it because I just love doing it.
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01:11:58,416 --> 01:12:00,250
And I love the research. I love the
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01:12:00,250 --> 01:12:01,666
writing. And I love getting feedback from the people.
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01:12:02,666 --> 01:12:03,083
I love getting feedback from the people
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01:12:03,083 --> 01:12:06,083
who, you know, I met somebody recently
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01:12:06,083 --> 01:12:07,875
who said, you know, my daughter is five
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01:12:07,875 --> 01:12:10,916
and she loves sharks and she's so
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01:12:10,916 --> 01:12:13,125
inspired to see a woman in the field and
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01:12:13,125 --> 01:12:14,916
I was amazing. You know,
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01:12:14,916 --> 01:12:16,791
I'm inspiring a young girl.
357
01:12:17,666 --> 01:12:21,208
So yeah, I think actually, I don't know
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01:12:21,208 --> 01:12:23,458
if I will ever go back into like hardcore
359
01:12:23,458 --> 01:12:27,791
academia because I wouldn't say no. But
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01:12:27,791 --> 01:12:30,750
equally, is it where my love is now? You
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01:12:30,750 --> 01:12:32,666
know, is it where the passion is now?
362
01:12:33,541 --> 01:12:35,750
I'll be honest, I followed a very similar
363
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:37,375
passion, like it was the same village,
364
01:12:37,625 --> 01:12:39,333
same path, you know, it's doing the
365
01:12:39,333 --> 01:12:43,333
podcast and and talking about science and
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01:12:43,333 --> 01:12:45,541
conservation with a lot of other people.
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01:12:45,833 --> 01:12:46,875
It's how Dave and I met
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01:12:46,875 --> 01:12:47,666
and we started this podcast.
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01:12:47,666 --> 01:12:52,333
It was it changes. It changes your life.
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01:12:52,958 --> 01:12:54,541
And when you realize, like, this is fun,
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01:12:54,541 --> 01:12:56,250
I really enjoy doing this and I can help
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01:12:56,250 --> 01:12:58,458
a lot of people just like that five year
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01:12:58,458 --> 01:12:59,625
old girl. And I'm sure there's probably
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01:12:59,625 --> 01:13:02,541
more, more of those stories of all ages
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01:13:02,541 --> 01:13:04,625
to be able to say I help people either
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01:13:04,625 --> 01:13:06,583
get over their fear sharks or really
377
01:13:06,583 --> 01:13:09,750
satisfy that curiosity of, you know, the
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01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:10,625
different types of sharks.
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01:13:10,708 --> 01:13:12,125
And like, I'm on your website right now
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01:13:12,125 --> 01:13:14,000
as we as we speak and all these different
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01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,291
photos and infrared like little tidbits
382
01:13:16,291 --> 01:13:18,166
of information just even before you even
383
01:13:18,166 --> 01:13:20,333
click on a on an image. And it's just
384
01:13:20,333 --> 01:13:21,666
like, oh, this is really cool.
385
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:25,291
You know, and and so, yeah, I really love
386
01:13:25,291 --> 01:13:27,625
love that aspect. But then, you know, you
387
01:13:27,625 --> 01:13:31,125
have this this website, you have these,
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01:13:31,125 --> 01:13:32,375
you know, on the website, there's
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01:13:32,375 --> 01:13:34,000
articles, there's fast facts. So you're
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01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:35,291
writing a lot about sharks.
391
01:13:35,958 --> 01:13:39,416
What made you decide to be like, oh,
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01:13:39,416 --> 01:13:41,125
yeah, now I'm going to just I'm going to
393
01:13:41,125 --> 01:13:44,833
just write a book because, you know, I
394
01:13:44,833 --> 01:13:47,291
can do this stuff. Yeah. Yeah, we all
395
01:13:47,291 --> 01:13:48,583
have a book of this. This is great.
396
01:13:49,583 --> 01:13:51,083
You know, this is the funniest story
397
01:13:51,083 --> 01:13:53,083
because it was the weirdest sort of
398
01:13:53,083 --> 01:13:56,625
simpatico moment where I thought, you
399
01:13:56,625 --> 01:13:58,500
know, I've got a lot of content online
400
01:13:58,500 --> 01:14:02,125
now. Yeah, maybe I can turn into a book.
401
01:14:02,125 --> 01:14:03,125
I wonder if I could do
402
01:14:03,125 --> 01:14:04,375
that. And it was so strange.
403
01:14:05,666 --> 01:14:07,958
And about a week later, literally within
404
01:14:07,958 --> 01:14:11,791
days, I got this email to my inbox and
405
01:14:11,791 --> 01:14:16,500
this Dan Abel. And, you know, I've got
406
01:14:16,500 --> 01:14:18,708
all Dan's books, I know Dan is somebody,
407
01:14:18,708 --> 01:14:20,208
you know, I was fan girling over this
408
01:14:20,208 --> 01:14:20,916
email being like, oh my
409
01:14:20,916 --> 01:14:22,166
goodness, it's Dr. Abel.
410
01:14:23,708 --> 01:14:25,333
And he's saying, you know, I'm writing
411
01:14:25,333 --> 01:14:27,916
this book and it's going to be something
412
01:14:27,916 --> 01:14:29,666
different to anything else that is out
413
01:14:29,666 --> 01:14:32,416
there. And I think I need a unique, you
414
01:14:32,416 --> 01:14:33,916
know, new voice on it. Would you be
415
01:14:33,916 --> 01:14:37,083
interested? And I swear I didn't think it
416
01:14:37,083 --> 01:14:38,125
was him. I thought it
417
01:14:38,125 --> 01:14:39,458
was somebody catfishing me.
418
01:14:39,666 --> 01:14:42,208
And when we I was like, when we go on to
419
01:14:42,208 --> 01:14:44,125
a zoom, it's going to be like a 50 year
420
01:14:44,125 --> 01:14:46,958
old woman in Africa, you know, I think
421
01:14:46,958 --> 01:14:50,000
it's not going to be Dan Abel. And it was
422
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:53,833
it was him. And so he found me through my
423
01:14:53,833 --> 01:14:56,541
site and he enjoyed the tone of my
424
01:14:56,541 --> 01:14:59,958
writing and sort of the passion and, you
425
01:14:59,958 --> 01:15:01,208
know, the love, which
426
01:15:01,208 --> 01:15:02,458
is what Dan has as well.
427
01:15:02,708 --> 01:15:04,916
So it's about being a scientist about
428
01:15:04,916 --> 01:15:08,916
this about love. And that was why he
429
01:15:08,916 --> 01:15:11,416
offered me, you know, co-author on the
430
01:15:11,416 --> 01:15:13,291
book. And it was crazy because as we
431
01:15:13,291 --> 01:15:16,416
started writing it, you cannot tell who
432
01:15:16,416 --> 01:15:18,750
wrote which piece, you know, I read
433
01:15:18,750 --> 01:15:21,000
chapters and I'm like, this could be your
434
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:22,958
Dan, we've got exactly the same.
435
01:15:23,500 --> 01:15:24,291
Nice. Yeah.
436
01:15:25,666 --> 01:15:59,083
So it worked out so well. And then all of a sudden you see you keep
437
01:15:59,083 --> 01:16:00,333
building and building and building, you
438
01:16:00,333 --> 01:16:01,791
start getting more and more viewers and
439
01:16:01,791 --> 01:16:02,958
more and more people to come. And then
440
01:16:02,958 --> 01:16:04,333
all of a sudden people within your
441
01:16:04,333 --> 01:16:05,916
industry start to like within your field
442
01:16:05,916 --> 01:16:07,875
recognize it. And then somebody who
443
01:16:07,875 --> 01:16:10,000
you've read for a long time comes out out
444
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:12,833
of nowhere, you know, and it and and for
445
01:16:12,833 --> 01:16:14,208
me, that's the same thing that's happened
446
01:16:14,208 --> 01:16:15,583
to me where some people like I have no
447
01:16:15,583 --> 01:16:17,375
business knowing this person and they
448
01:16:17,375 --> 01:16:19,958
contacted me, you know, to come on the
449
01:16:19,958 --> 01:16:20,625
podcast or what and
450
01:16:20,625 --> 01:16:21,666
you're just like, holy cow.
451
01:16:21,666 --> 01:16:23,958
It's like, you know, it's it's amazing.
452
01:16:24,166 --> 01:16:25,583
It's an amazing feeling, but it's also
453
01:16:25,583 --> 01:16:29,375
you put yourself out there to and then an
454
01:16:29,375 --> 01:16:31,333
opportunities came. I think that I think
455
01:16:31,333 --> 01:16:34,166
a lot of people that I meet that want to
456
01:16:34,166 --> 01:16:36,208
get into the ring conservation field or
457
01:16:36,208 --> 01:16:37,666
do something within that field.
458
01:16:37,666 --> 01:16:41,375
They tend to sit around and not do
459
01:16:41,375 --> 01:16:44,166
anything about it. Right. It's start a
460
01:16:44,166 --> 01:16:47,083
website, start a channel, start something
461
01:16:47,083 --> 01:16:49,125
to talk about and show your passion.
462
01:16:49,125 --> 01:16:52,250
Yeah. And you may or may not get rewarded
463
01:16:52,250 --> 01:16:53,958
for it, but likely some opportunities
464
01:16:53,958 --> 01:16:55,125
going to come up that you may
465
01:16:55,125 --> 01:16:56,000
or may not have ever expected.
466
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:57,458
Like, did you ever think you were going
467
01:16:57,458 --> 01:16:59,750
to write a book? I mean, I would in my
468
01:16:59,750 --> 01:17:01,833
wildest dreams, you're thinking about it,
469
01:17:01,833 --> 01:17:03,500
I guess. Yeah. Well, it's like, you don't
470
01:17:03,500 --> 01:17:04,291
think that that's really
471
01:17:04,291 --> 01:17:05,666
going to happen, you know? Right.
472
01:17:05,666 --> 01:17:08,000
And for all those years, I mean, because
473
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:11,083
it was years of putting in hours and
474
01:17:11,083 --> 01:17:12,916
graphs and thinking no one's going to see
475
01:17:12,916 --> 01:17:14,458
it, you know, putting an article up and
476
01:17:14,458 --> 01:17:16,583
you get 30 views and you're like, it's
477
01:17:16,583 --> 01:17:18,166
not going anywhere. Yes.
478
01:17:27,666 --> 01:17:29,250
And I think it's gone in and I doing this
479
01:17:29,250 --> 01:17:30,750
project, I really realized that I was
480
01:17:30,750 --> 01:17:32,666
like, you've got to go out there and
481
01:17:32,666 --> 01:17:34,708
chase it down because it isn't going to
482
01:17:34,708 --> 01:17:36,916
come to you. Right. You've got to keep
483
01:17:36,916 --> 01:17:39,208
going, keep going, fail, get up, keep
484
01:17:39,208 --> 01:17:42,083
going, fail again. And I made mistakes
485
01:17:42,083 --> 01:17:43,625
along the way where I was like, oh, that
486
01:17:43,625 --> 01:17:45,291
was bad. That was an embarrassment. I
487
01:17:45,291 --> 01:17:48,416
need to take that down and redo that. But
488
01:17:48,416 --> 01:17:50,208
it's a process. And then eventually at
489
01:17:50,208 --> 01:17:51,500
the end, you're like, looking back,
490
01:17:51,500 --> 01:17:54,083
you're like, wow, like I've actually
491
01:17:54,083 --> 01:17:55,666
achieved something. And, you know, what could have been the word?
492
01:17:56,666 --> 01:17:58,166
What could have been the worst years of
493
01:17:58,166 --> 01:17:59,583
my life, but that, you know, with the
494
01:17:59,583 --> 01:18:01,166
pandemic and everything, I mean, I think
495
01:18:01,166 --> 01:18:02,958
the reason that it was so important to me
496
01:18:02,958 --> 01:18:04,625
as well is I think the mental health is,
497
01:18:04,625 --> 01:18:05,583
you know, locked in the
498
01:18:05,583 --> 01:18:06,833
house was not good for me.
499
01:18:07,291 --> 01:18:09,583
I really need to be productive. I get
500
01:18:09,583 --> 01:18:12,458
that. So, you know, sharks beat kind of
501
01:18:12,458 --> 01:18:15,833
helped me as much as, you know, as much
502
01:18:15,833 --> 01:18:17,916
as I enjoyed it, it saved me a little bit
503
01:18:17,916 --> 01:18:19,666
as well. Yeah. Yeah.
504
01:18:19,708 --> 01:18:22,750
Yeah. So with your with all you know, now
505
01:18:22,750 --> 01:18:24,875
that you're a famous published author on
506
01:18:24,875 --> 01:18:27,458
the shark book, maybe
507
01:18:27,458 --> 01:18:28,583
even just said that guy.
508
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:34,208
This will be the trailer for
509
01:18:34,208 --> 01:18:38,666
the episode. Yeah. Mark that.
510
01:18:41,666 --> 01:18:46,125
And just every Princeton University Press
511
01:18:46,125 --> 01:18:47,333
is published in the book. That's the same
512
01:18:47,333 --> 01:18:49,750
as done. My sharks, the world book and my
513
01:18:49,750 --> 01:18:53,000
field guide as well. So that's in the
514
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:55,500
world. Dave, I love those books so much.
515
01:18:55,666 --> 01:18:58,416
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So
516
01:18:58,416 --> 01:19:00,333
Princeton, please, every post this when
517
01:19:00,333 --> 01:19:02,666
it comes out. Yes. Come
518
01:19:02,666 --> 01:19:03,666
on, Princeton. Come on.
519
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:07,125
Come on. One of my books. Yeah. No, they
520
01:19:07,125 --> 01:19:09,166
had. But no, it's a it's a really nice
521
01:19:09,166 --> 01:19:11,500
book. No, I had to add. I checked it. I
522
01:19:11,500 --> 01:19:12,958
was checking out. You had you got an
523
01:19:12,958 --> 01:19:14,791
illustrator involved in doing with the we
524
01:19:14,791 --> 01:19:17,541
did. Yeah. And it was Princeton found
525
01:19:17,541 --> 01:19:19,375
this illustrator. And oh, my goodness.
526
01:19:19,375 --> 01:19:21,791
Did he bring this to life? We actually
527
01:19:21,791 --> 01:19:23,583
the book was supposed to be out before
528
01:19:23,583 --> 01:19:26,041
Christmas last year. And Dan and I were
529
01:19:26,041 --> 01:19:27,958
quite disappointed because they said, oh,
530
01:19:28,125 --> 01:19:29,250
we're going to have to delay it because
531
01:19:29,250 --> 01:19:32,541
the artist isn't ready. But now I'm like,
532
01:19:32,541 --> 01:19:32,666
I'm so glad we delayed it.
533
01:19:33,708 --> 01:19:35,666
Because what a job he's done is
534
01:19:35,666 --> 01:19:38,500
beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's very
535
01:19:38,500 --> 01:19:41,291
nice. It's a very nice book. It's really
536
01:19:41,291 --> 01:19:43,708
nice. It covers a lot of a lot of ground
537
01:19:43,708 --> 01:19:47,250
in the book as well. And it's totally,
538
01:19:47,250 --> 01:19:49,000
totally cool. And it is out now, right?
539
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,375
It came out. It's out now.
540
01:20:07,875 --> 01:20:11,125
It's a book that I wanted to write
541
01:20:11,125 --> 01:20:13,875
something that I wished I'd had when I
542
01:20:13,875 --> 01:20:16,458
first realized I was in sharks. Yeah,
543
01:20:16,458 --> 01:20:18,416
because, you know, we wanted to.
544
01:20:19,666 --> 01:20:20,250
I think that we have to target this
545
01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:23,000
intelligent members of the public, which
546
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,833
is a huge amount of the public. I think
547
01:20:25,833 --> 01:20:28,625
some shark books are a bit patronizing
548
01:20:28,625 --> 01:20:32,250
and there's there's a lot for kids. And
549
01:20:32,250 --> 01:20:34,666
then there's books for scientists. And I
550
01:20:34,666 --> 01:20:36,041
wanted something in the middle that like
551
01:20:36,041 --> 01:20:39,041
the intelligent young adults and curious
552
01:20:39,041 --> 01:20:40,791
adults who want to learn about this
553
01:20:40,791 --> 01:20:43,291
without it being too heavy and still
554
01:20:43,291 --> 01:20:46,125
being fun and light and interesting. But
555
01:20:46,125 --> 01:20:48,250
got a lot of the science in there in a
556
01:20:48,250 --> 01:20:48,666
way that people can understand it.
557
01:20:48,708 --> 01:20:51,708
Because if we're if people can't
558
01:20:51,708 --> 01:20:53,250
understand it, then scientists are
559
01:20:53,250 --> 01:20:54,166
failing because we should be
560
01:20:54,166 --> 01:20:57,125
communicating it better. So we wanted to
561
01:20:57,125 --> 01:20:58,583
write something with that kind of tone
562
01:20:58,583 --> 01:21:00,291
that's fun and funny. And there's a lot
563
01:21:00,291 --> 01:21:01,833
of little puns in there. We had a great
564
01:21:01,833 --> 01:21:04,125
time writing the chapter headings. As you
565
01:21:04,125 --> 01:21:06,666
can tell, we've got my partner will be
566
01:21:06,666 --> 01:21:08,875
very proud because Jurassic shark made it
567
01:21:08,875 --> 01:21:11,875
in there, which was his idea. Yeah, so
568
01:21:11,875 --> 01:21:13,166
you know, we got some great little puns
569
01:21:13,166 --> 01:21:14,750
in there with which me and Dan really,
570
01:21:14,750 --> 01:21:16,083
really enjoyed. That's where we got to
571
01:21:16,083 --> 01:21:16,500
have a bit of
572
01:21:16,500 --> 01:21:17,666
personality with it as well. Yeah.
573
01:21:17,666 --> 01:21:20,666
Yeah, that's a lot of fun. It's nice.
574
01:21:20,666 --> 01:21:23,250
Nice. You able to do that stuff. Yeah. So
575
01:21:23,250 --> 01:21:26,625
yeah. So you you've been out on the on a
576
01:21:26,625 --> 01:21:29,833
book tour now doing some talks and yeah,
577
01:21:29,833 --> 01:21:32,458
promote it. Yeah, absolutely. But I'm I'm
578
01:21:32,458 --> 01:21:34,458
open to more. So if anybody wants to get
579
01:21:34,458 --> 01:21:36,666
in touch, I'm doing some sort of like
580
01:21:36,666 --> 01:21:39,250
some sort of nights out with the public
581
01:21:39,250 --> 01:21:41,083
in book shops and things. But I'm also
582
01:21:41,083 --> 01:21:42,958
starting to go into some primary schools
583
01:21:42,958 --> 01:21:44,416
and some secondary schools and into
584
01:21:44,416 --> 01:21:46,458
universities as well to sort of talk to
585
01:21:46,458 --> 01:21:46,666
kids about this stuff.
586
01:21:46,708 --> 01:21:51,000
Which I'm really excited about. Yeah, so
587
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,666
it's really cool to actually like, you
588
01:21:52,666 --> 01:21:54,333
know, I've been doing this online for so
589
01:21:54,333 --> 01:21:56,250
long. I think it's kind of it's kind of
590
01:21:56,250 --> 01:21:57,458
surprising for people to be like, Oh,
591
01:21:57,458 --> 01:21:58,875
you're actually a real person. I can
592
01:21:58,875 --> 01:22:03,000
actually. Please do come and talk to me.
593
01:22:03,708 --> 01:22:09,916
You do exist. Yeah. So now that you've
594
01:22:09,916 --> 01:22:12,041
actually written a book now, do you think
595
01:22:12,041 --> 01:22:12,666
you write another one?
596
01:22:13,666 --> 01:22:16,500
I have started a second one. I actually
597
01:22:16,500 --> 01:22:18,291
started before the first one even came
598
01:22:18,291 --> 01:22:20,500
out. Yeah. And I'm sort of looking to
599
01:22:20,500 --> 01:22:23,500
shop that around soon. I haven't finished
600
01:22:23,500 --> 01:22:25,333
it about halfway through. But yeah, I am
601
01:22:25,333 --> 01:22:27,666
writing a second one. Okay. Okay. Is this
602
01:22:27,666 --> 01:22:29,875
what is the same thing that is geared
603
01:22:29,875 --> 01:22:30,750
towards younger people
604
01:22:30,750 --> 01:22:31,666
or just out anyone there?
605
01:22:32,666 --> 01:22:34,166
It's going to be geared sort of towards
606
01:22:34,166 --> 01:22:37,250
adults. And it is I really want to write
607
01:22:37,250 --> 01:22:39,958
about what it feels like to be a shark
608
01:22:39,958 --> 01:22:42,250
and the experiences that sharks have in
609
01:22:42,250 --> 01:22:45,416
their world and how they feel and see and
610
01:22:45,416 --> 01:22:49,000
what their brains are like. And do they
611
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,375
have a way to communicate? And I want
612
01:22:52,375 --> 01:22:55,375
people to realize we're so past this old
613
01:22:55,375 --> 01:22:57,208
outdated idea that sharks
614
01:22:57,208 --> 01:22:58,666
are stupid, cold, mindless.
615
01:22:58,666 --> 01:23:02,458
Yeah. Yeah. It's time for people to know
616
01:23:02,458 --> 01:23:04,416
the truth. Well, you know, well, this
617
01:23:04,416 --> 01:23:06,708
June, you'll be 50 years from since Josh
618
01:23:06,708 --> 01:23:11,583
came out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I should say
619
01:23:11,583 --> 01:23:13,166
I'm embarrassed, but I was I actually saw
620
01:23:13,166 --> 01:23:15,666
the movie when it came out 50 years ago.
621
01:23:15,666 --> 01:23:21,166
So I'll leave it at that. But it was kind
622
01:23:21,166 --> 01:23:22,541
of like I've been
623
01:23:22,541 --> 01:23:22,666
around a long time, Dave.
624
01:23:23,666 --> 01:23:27,875
But like I say, well, at least at least
625
01:23:27,875 --> 01:23:29,583
your co-author in this book, Dan, he was
626
01:23:29,583 --> 01:23:32,916
around too. So Dan's a little older than
627
01:23:32,916 --> 01:23:37,041
me. So so I feel young. So I feel young
628
01:23:37,041 --> 01:23:42,083
with that company there. And so yeah, it
629
01:23:42,083 --> 01:23:43,375
should be a good opportunity to like
630
01:23:43,375 --> 01:23:45,541
promote some of this with the jaws coming
631
01:23:45,541 --> 01:23:45,666
out and see where things have gone.
632
01:23:46,666 --> 01:23:51,125
What a change. I mean, 50 years. But what
633
01:23:51,125 --> 01:23:53,500
a change, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I
634
01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:55,791
mean, I like say, yeah, it's funny to me
635
01:23:55,791 --> 01:23:57,291
because like you guys weren't even born
636
01:23:57,291 --> 01:24:00,375
when the when the movie came out. And
637
01:24:00,375 --> 01:24:02,083
when did it come out? Seventy seven.
638
01:24:02,416 --> 01:24:04,916
Seventy five. Oh, yeah. My brother was
639
01:24:04,916 --> 01:24:06,625
born. I was three years later. Yeah.
640
01:24:06,958 --> 01:24:09,375
Yeah. Close. Yeah. You're you're a close.
641
01:24:09,375 --> 01:24:09,666
Sophie was like, wasn't even in the planning. I was non-existent.
642
01:24:09,708 --> 01:24:16,416
You weren't even your parents like plans
643
01:24:16,416 --> 01:24:18,125
at all. Yeah, I'm sure your parents were
644
01:24:18,125 --> 01:24:20,000
even married at that time. Probably not.
645
01:24:20,500 --> 01:24:23,333
Yeah. In fact, I'm pretty sure my dad
646
01:24:23,333 --> 01:24:25,375
took a date to the film Jaws and she
647
01:24:25,375 --> 01:24:27,291
asked him how they trained the shark to
648
01:24:27,291 --> 01:24:29,541
do that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm fairly
649
01:24:29,541 --> 01:24:31,375
certain that he's told me that story
650
01:24:31,375 --> 01:24:34,000
before. So there you go. Interesting.
651
01:24:34,166 --> 01:24:35,541
Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
652
01:24:35,875 --> 01:24:37,666
Yeah. I just I just wanted a bunch of my hooligan thug teenage friends to come in and talk to me about the story.
653
01:24:39,666 --> 01:24:42,041
I just wanted a bunch of his cousins because I was at that age where our mom
654
01:24:42,041 --> 01:24:44,000
our moms dropped to soft to watch movies.
655
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,791
So yeah. So a horror film. Yeah, well, I
656
01:24:47,791 --> 01:24:50,458
grew up in Monterrey. So it was like, you
657
01:24:50,458 --> 01:24:52,333
know, I was diving and surfing and stuff
658
01:24:52,333 --> 01:24:54,375
at that point. So like shark, you just
659
01:24:54,375 --> 01:24:55,458
knew sharks were around to be an
660
01:24:55,458 --> 01:24:56,458
occasional sharky Sierra texts. You
661
01:24:56,458 --> 01:24:58,333
didn't think. But people that came in
662
01:24:58,333 --> 01:24:59,791
from like out of the area, it was a
663
01:24:59,791 --> 01:25:01,458
bigger deal. If they saw a shark or
664
01:25:01,458 --> 01:25:03,250
something. It was more the sensational
665
01:25:03,250 --> 01:25:05,250
stuff you read about or hear about. Yeah, that would be highlighted, there was highlighted there. But if you grew up in Monterrey. If that saved, I mean, usually someone inochemistry was, they could
666
01:25:05,250 --> 01:25:06,750
don't explain. Yeah, I mean, an afternoon where you don't take off a fire in an individualASED video in Lab tan next to the you're here about, yeah,
667
01:25:06,958 --> 01:25:08,125
that would be highlighted there.
668
01:25:08,333 --> 01:25:09,791
It was highlighted there, but if you grew
669
01:25:09,791 --> 01:25:10,625
up around the ocean,
670
01:25:11,500 --> 01:25:12,500
you just, you know,
671
01:25:12,500 --> 01:25:13,666
sharks are around, you know,
672
01:25:13,666 --> 01:25:15,166
sometimes things happen.
673
01:25:15,166 --> 01:25:15,958
It's that mystery of
674
01:25:15,958 --> 01:25:17,333
something you don't know, right?
675
01:25:17,333 --> 01:25:20,208
It's an alien thing, so it creates,
676
01:25:20,458 --> 01:25:22,416
it gets bigger in your mind
677
01:25:22,416 --> 01:25:24,208
when it's so distant, right?
678
01:25:24,666 --> 01:25:25,500
Well, yeah, the thing at
679
01:25:25,500 --> 01:25:26,625
the time too is like you,
680
01:25:26,875 --> 01:25:29,291
there was no, you couldn't even like,
681
01:25:30,666 --> 01:25:31,916
especially when you're a young person,
682
01:25:32,166 --> 01:25:33,750
and we knew nothing about sharks,
683
01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:35,000
to say you didn't know anything about it
684
01:25:35,041 --> 01:25:36,375
would be an understatement at the time.
685
01:25:36,875 --> 01:25:37,666
You knew nothing about
686
01:25:37,666 --> 01:25:39,000
them, so you'd think like,
687
01:25:39,583 --> 01:25:41,000
even things like I always tell the story,
688
01:25:41,375 --> 01:25:42,000
like, you know, the big,
689
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:43,125
one of the climactic scenes
690
01:25:43,125 --> 01:25:44,000
of the shark jumping on
691
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:45,000
the boat and eating Quint,
692
01:25:45,500 --> 01:25:46,625
you know, back then
693
01:25:46,625 --> 01:25:48,375
people thought it was crazy,
694
01:25:48,375 --> 01:25:49,333
oh, sharks can't jump.
695
01:25:49,916 --> 01:25:51,958
And there was, you
696
01:25:51,958 --> 01:25:53,875
know, so, so it was, yeah,
697
01:25:53,875 --> 01:25:55,000
I mean, you literally
698
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:56,541
thought like, you know, I mean,
699
01:25:56,541 --> 01:25:57,625
I knew a lot of the big imp,
700
01:25:58,041 --> 01:25:59,583
you know, prominent people,
701
01:25:59,583 --> 01:26:00,666
like, well, I didn't know him at the time
702
01:26:00,666 --> 01:26:01,291
I was in high school,
703
01:26:01,416 --> 01:26:02,708
but you know, years later,
704
01:26:02,791 --> 01:26:03,416
I got to know Leonard
705
01:26:03,416 --> 01:26:05,375
Campagno and Don Nelson and, uh,
706
01:26:06,250 --> 01:26:07,541
Sonny Gruber and all those guys.
707
01:26:08,958 --> 01:26:09,875
No one really thought
708
01:26:09,875 --> 01:26:11,250
sharks could jump at all.
709
01:26:11,458 --> 01:26:11,625
No.
710
01:26:11,750 --> 01:26:12,416
And, uh,
711
01:26:12,416 --> 01:26:12,875
Only fur seals.
712
01:26:13,416 --> 01:26:14,208
Only fur seals.
713
01:26:14,333 --> 01:26:15,041
Yeah, only fur seals.
714
01:26:15,291 --> 01:26:17,333
And yeah, and I, I know I've told the
715
01:26:17,333 --> 01:26:18,291
story many times in the episode,
716
01:26:18,291 --> 01:26:19,791
but I remember seeing the first time I
717
01:26:19,791 --> 01:26:20,791
saw it in South Africa,
718
01:26:21,500 --> 01:26:22,541
the local people in
719
01:26:22,541 --> 01:26:23,875
South Africa knew about it,
720
01:26:23,875 --> 01:26:25,250
but nobody in the outside world did
721
01:26:25,250 --> 01:26:26,041
because nobody had filmed.
722
01:26:26,375 --> 01:26:27,500
This is before Chris Fallows.
723
01:26:28,375 --> 01:26:30,791
And, um, I remember telling people like
724
01:26:30,791 --> 01:26:32,666
the people I mentioned and Macott,
725
01:26:32,708 --> 01:26:33,625
I thought it was nuts or
726
01:26:33,625 --> 01:26:35,000
drunk or stoned or something.
727
01:26:35,750 --> 01:26:37,000
And then, and then if, then
728
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:38,458
after I left South Africa,
729
01:26:38,458 --> 01:26:41,291
Chris Fallows filmed it and suddenly
730
01:26:41,291 --> 01:26:42,166
everybody's going, Hey, Dave,
731
01:26:42,166 --> 01:26:43,416
you know, these white sharks breach.
732
01:26:43,416 --> 01:26:44,416
And I'm like, yeah, I kind of told you
733
01:26:44,416 --> 01:26:46,416
that like, you know, five years ago.
734
01:26:46,458 --> 01:26:47,708
But why are we not listening to the,
735
01:26:48,875 --> 01:26:49,958
You just didn't do it in a nice
736
01:26:49,958 --> 01:26:51,291
photograph, like, uh,
737
01:26:51,291 --> 01:26:52,375
like Chris Fallows or,
738
01:26:52,833 --> 01:26:55,375
or, uh, you know, a shark week, uh,
739
01:26:56,166 --> 01:26:58,166
Jeff courage. Yeah, Jeff courage stuff.
740
01:26:58,500 --> 01:26:59,041
But that, yeah.
741
01:26:59,166 --> 01:27:00,500
So, but anyway, but I
742
01:27:00,500 --> 01:27:01,625
think I just said that,
743
01:27:02,041 --> 01:27:03,208
and it's really a little reminiscent, but
744
01:27:03,208 --> 01:27:05,000
it's like just how far we've come in the
745
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:06,583
50 years now you've got these fabulous
746
01:27:06,583 --> 01:27:08,791
books like, like you're doing now.
747
01:27:08,791 --> 01:27:10,291
And you know, there's a lot of certainly
748
01:27:10,291 --> 01:27:11,166
see a lot of, a lot
749
01:27:11,166 --> 01:27:12,208
of women in the field.
750
01:27:12,208 --> 01:27:14,458
And it's just been a, the field, the
751
01:27:14,458 --> 01:27:17,375
fields just come so far from, from that,
752
01:27:17,375 --> 01:27:18,916
from that time. And it's, it's going to
753
01:27:18,916 --> 01:27:20,375
be an interesting thing with, uh,
754
01:27:20,791 --> 01:27:23,500
with the jaws 50 years coming up and, uh,
755
01:27:23,500 --> 01:27:24,250
and all these nice,
756
01:27:24,250 --> 01:27:26,000
wonderful books out now,
757
01:27:27,208 --> 01:27:28,625
for sure. It'll be really neat to see.
758
01:27:29,291 --> 01:27:30,541
Um, so you can be doing,
759
01:27:30,541 --> 01:27:32,000
so you can be doing any more, any, any
760
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:33,500
more promotional things coming up.
761
01:27:33,500 --> 01:27:34,583
You're going to be doing with the book.
762
01:27:34,583 --> 01:27:35,958
I've got a couple of lectures coming up.
763
01:27:35,958 --> 01:27:37,458
I'm really excited about, um,
764
01:27:37,458 --> 01:27:39,791
one of them actually at my, the
765
01:27:39,791 --> 01:27:40,875
university that I did my
766
01:27:40,875 --> 01:27:41,916
undergraduate degree on.
767
01:27:41,916 --> 01:27:44,416
So I get to come back and like, you know,
768
01:27:44,416 --> 01:27:46,500
a rock star alumnus and sort of,
769
01:27:46,500 --> 01:27:48,125
yeah, the halls again. And I think that's
770
01:27:48,125 --> 01:27:50,458
going to be quite surreal, but amazing.
771
01:27:50,625 --> 01:27:52,291
Cause I haven't been back there since I
772
01:27:52,291 --> 01:27:54,375
graduated, you know, 300 years ago.
773
01:27:54,625 --> 01:27:56,708
So it's going to be really, really cool
774
01:27:56,708 --> 01:27:58,833
to go back. Um, yeah,
775
01:27:58,833 --> 01:27:59,833
really excited for that.
776
01:28:00,416 --> 01:28:02,083
So when it's in the talks, like what are
777
01:28:02,083 --> 01:28:03,250
you going to be talking
778
01:28:03,250 --> 01:28:04,000
about? Obviously you're going
779
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:05,416
to be pulling stuff from the book and,
780
01:28:05,416 --> 01:28:07,000
and, and just stuff from your vast
781
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:08,458
library of, of material.
782
01:28:08,458 --> 01:28:12,208
But how do you present, you know, sharks
783
01:28:12,208 --> 01:28:15,125
to, to this, the, these
784
01:28:15,125 --> 01:28:16,208
classes or the people,
785
01:28:16,208 --> 01:28:18,291
these students who are attending? So it
786
01:28:18,291 --> 01:28:19,958
really depends on who I'm talking to.
787
01:28:19,958 --> 01:28:22,250
When I'm at a university, a lot of the
788
01:28:22,250 --> 01:28:23,833
people that are attending are, you know,
789
01:28:23,833 --> 01:28:26,333
sort of in science field, you know, so
790
01:28:26,333 --> 01:28:27,208
these are people that are
791
01:28:27,208 --> 01:28:29,791
quite open to quite advanced
792
01:28:29,791 --> 01:28:31,833
lectures, which is great. So I go into a
793
01:28:31,833 --> 01:28:32,625
little bit of the sort of
794
01:28:32,625 --> 01:28:33,833
taxonomy and all the different
795
01:28:33,833 --> 01:28:36,416
groups and how we tell them apart and
796
01:28:36,416 --> 01:28:38,250
reproductive strategies is one of my
797
01:28:38,250 --> 01:28:39,708
favorite things to talk
798
01:28:39,708 --> 01:28:41,291
about. I love it so much. And people
799
01:28:41,291 --> 01:28:42,833
always get mind blown by
800
01:28:42,833 --> 01:28:45,500
that. Um, but when I'm going sort
801
01:28:45,500 --> 01:28:47,375
of more towards the public, I love to do
802
01:28:47,375 --> 01:28:49,625
like fun shark quizzes where
803
01:28:49,625 --> 01:28:51,416
I put up sort of facts that
804
01:28:51,458 --> 01:28:53,875
people think they know about sharks and,
805
01:28:53,875 --> 01:28:54,666
you know, and then I'm
806
01:28:54,666 --> 01:28:56,125
like, Nope, you're wrong. That's
807
01:28:56,291 --> 01:28:59,416
false, you know, and pull out great
808
01:28:59,416 --> 01:29:00,958
statistics about shark attacks that
809
01:29:00,958 --> 01:29:02,125
always surprise people,
810
01:29:02,125 --> 01:29:04,250
you know, like you're for every one
811
01:29:04,250 --> 01:29:05,875
person bitten by a shark, just five
812
01:29:05,875 --> 01:29:07,416
people bitten by New Yorkers
813
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:13,250
is one that goes really well. So I always
814
01:29:13,250 --> 01:29:14,916
kind of, I sort of try to
815
01:29:14,916 --> 01:29:17,666
keep it quite light. I think that
816
01:29:17,833 --> 01:29:20,958
fun is the way to learn. The more fun it
817
01:29:20,958 --> 01:29:22,791
is, the more people are laughing, they
818
01:29:22,791 --> 01:29:24,208
are remembering things, you know,
819
01:29:24,208 --> 01:29:26,291
when they're having a pint later on with
820
01:29:26,291 --> 01:29:27,541
a friend, they're going, Oh,
821
01:29:27,541 --> 01:29:29,291
I heard this crazy fact about
822
01:29:29,291 --> 01:29:30,541
sharks. And then they share it with
823
01:29:30,541 --> 01:29:32,791
somebody else, you know, and yeah, joy
824
01:29:32,791 --> 01:29:34,458
spreads that way. So I
825
01:29:34,458 --> 01:29:36,833
always try to make it quite fun. I don't
826
01:29:36,833 --> 01:29:38,291
want those dusty lecturers
827
01:29:38,291 --> 01:29:40,083
that you know, that sleep in the
828
01:29:40,083 --> 01:29:43,375
back row. Yeah, no stories. You're not
829
01:29:43,375 --> 01:29:44,416
just telling facts. You're
830
01:29:44,416 --> 01:29:46,250
not just going to be a textbook.
831
01:29:46,416 --> 01:29:47,500
You're doing what you're doing in the
832
01:29:47,500 --> 01:29:49,041
book and trying to lighten
833
01:29:49,041 --> 01:29:50,375
it up, you know, bring emotion
834
01:29:50,500 --> 01:29:52,291
into it, you know, get people to really
835
01:29:52,291 --> 01:29:53,458
understand where these where
836
01:29:53,458 --> 01:29:54,458
these sharks are coming from.
837
01:29:54,666 --> 01:29:56,000
Yeah. Like so you want to inspire people.
838
01:29:56,583 --> 01:29:58,791
Yeah. Yeah. To to to to, you know, I
839
01:29:58,791 --> 01:29:59,875
mean, most, you know,
840
01:29:59,875 --> 01:30:01,541
I think I think I think it's always good
841
01:30:01,541 --> 01:30:03,166
to like, if you can inspire people, most
842
01:30:03,166 --> 01:30:03,708
people are not going
843
01:30:03,708 --> 01:30:05,125
to do sharks. It's just it's just not not
844
01:30:05,125 --> 01:30:07,333
it's not that big a field. Everybody
845
01:30:07,333 --> 01:30:08,291
grows out of that. And
846
01:30:08,291 --> 01:30:09,750
for the most part, but you want to, but
847
01:30:09,750 --> 01:30:11,416
if you can inspire people that for
848
01:30:11,416 --> 01:30:12,291
whatever they pursue,
849
01:30:12,291 --> 01:30:14,333
I think is an important thing to just
850
01:30:14,333 --> 01:30:15,333
they'll go out for whatever
851
01:30:15,333 --> 01:30:16,041
they do want to do. They'll just
852
01:30:16,083 --> 01:30:18,166
get inspired about it. I think that's
853
01:30:18,166 --> 01:30:19,583
that's kind of like, I think an important
854
01:30:19,583 --> 01:30:21,083
message to bring. Yeah.
855
01:30:21,500 --> 01:30:23,666
As a as a woman, that's really important
856
01:30:23,666 --> 01:30:24,875
for me as well, you know,
857
01:30:25,166 --> 01:30:28,000
because every time I meet young
858
01:30:28,166 --> 01:30:30,666
women who are studying or training or
859
01:30:30,666 --> 01:30:31,625
just interested people
860
01:30:31,625 --> 01:30:33,208
that are just curious, it's
861
01:30:33,208 --> 01:30:35,125
always lovely to hear, you know, it's so
862
01:30:35,125 --> 01:30:37,125
great that we see a woman doing this.
863
01:30:37,125 --> 01:30:38,541
And, you know, maybe my
864
01:30:38,541 --> 01:30:39,958
daughter could do this. And I'm like,
865
01:30:39,958 --> 01:30:41,875
your daughter can do this. A hundred
866
01:30:41,875 --> 01:30:42,958
percent. Like, come on.
867
01:30:42,958 --> 01:30:46,416
And I didn't realize, you know, I had a
868
01:30:46,416 --> 01:30:47,791
student in the Bahamas in
869
01:30:47,791 --> 01:30:49,000
the summer sort of say to me,
870
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:51,041
you know, she gave me a hug and said, Oh,
871
01:30:51,041 --> 01:30:51,541
my God, you're my
872
01:30:51,541 --> 01:30:55,916
inspiration. And I was like, wow. Yeah,
873
01:30:56,041 --> 01:30:59,166
that's incredible. Like, yeah, go on
874
01:30:59,166 --> 01:31:00,750
rockstar and go do your
875
01:31:00,750 --> 01:31:02,291
thing and be amazing. It's
876
01:31:02,541 --> 01:31:04,291
yes, an amazing thing to
877
01:31:04,291 --> 01:31:05,916
inspire people. That's a
878
01:31:06,791 --> 01:31:08,625
you're inspiring people like through like
879
01:31:08,625 --> 01:31:09,625
a different way of you
880
01:31:09,625 --> 01:31:10,541
and Dan are writing this
881
01:31:10,541 --> 01:31:12,458
book in a very different way. And I love
882
01:31:12,458 --> 01:31:14,416
the headings. I'm just looking over. So
883
01:31:14,416 --> 01:31:16,875
much fun with that. I fought for those.
884
01:31:17,416 --> 01:31:19,583
They kept trying to take them out. And
885
01:31:19,583 --> 01:31:21,333
they sent the draft back and I would just
886
01:31:21,333 --> 01:31:24,041
politely delete them and put them back in
887
01:31:25,583 --> 01:31:27,208
without saying anything. Just like this
888
01:31:27,208 --> 01:31:30,000
back. This is just a little passive, you
889
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:31,500
know, eventually somebody
890
01:31:31,500 --> 01:31:32,875
will miss this and it'll just
891
01:31:32,958 --> 01:31:35,291
definitely. Well, the one that really
892
01:31:35,291 --> 01:31:37,291
stands out to me is like, you know,
893
01:31:37,291 --> 01:31:39,500
sharks that break the rules. Oh, yeah,
894
01:31:39,750 --> 01:31:41,500
that heading. So what what
895
01:31:41,500 --> 01:31:42,375
do you what is meant? Like,
896
01:31:42,375 --> 01:31:44,541
what can people expect from that? From
897
01:31:44,541 --> 01:31:46,000
that section? That was my absolute
898
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:48,041
favorite section to write. And I
899
01:31:48,041 --> 01:31:49,875
loved it so much because Dan sort of said
900
01:31:49,875 --> 01:31:50,708
to me, he was like, Sophie,
901
01:31:51,125 --> 01:31:53,625
this is your forte. I'm going
902
01:31:53,625 --> 01:31:56,000
to step back, just go to town on it and
903
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:58,208
just have fun. And I just, you know,
904
01:31:58,416 --> 01:31:59,250
wrapped my brains for
905
01:31:59,291 --> 01:32:01,958
it was all of the things that I had
906
01:32:01,958 --> 01:32:04,416
learned about sharks that blew my mind,
907
01:32:04,750 --> 01:32:07,541
you know, like, wait, sharks can glow.
908
01:32:07,541 --> 01:32:08,833
Some sharks glow in the dark.
909
01:32:09,208 --> 01:32:11,541
What? Right. That can't be true. You
910
01:32:11,541 --> 01:32:13,708
know, some sharks can throw their jaw out
911
01:32:13,708 --> 01:32:15,708
their mouth. That can't be true. Sharks
912
01:32:15,708 --> 01:32:17,250
use their tail as a whip.
913
01:32:17,250 --> 01:32:19,333
You know, all these things that are just
914
01:32:19,333 --> 01:32:22,750
mind blowing. And I use the term James
915
01:32:22,750 --> 01:32:25,333
Bond shark to refer to that stereotype.
916
01:32:25,750 --> 01:32:28,541
You know, it's the gray reef shark
917
01:32:28,541 --> 01:32:30,958
looking shark. That's not what sharks
918
01:32:30,958 --> 01:32:33,000
are. And so with that chapter, we really
919
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:33,833
wanted to show people
920
01:32:33,833 --> 01:32:36,333
sharks are not this one thing.
921
01:32:36,333 --> 01:32:38,833
It's not shark. You know, there's
922
01:32:38,833 --> 01:32:40,583
hundreds and they're all different and
923
01:32:40,583 --> 01:32:44,291
they're all crazy. You know, do you talk?
924
01:32:44,291 --> 01:32:45,708
I haven't gone through the entire book
925
01:32:45,708 --> 01:32:46,708
yet, but you get into raise
926
01:32:46,708 --> 01:32:48,291
raise or go sharks much at all.
927
01:32:48,708 --> 01:32:51,083
We haven't. No. So we kept it sort of
928
01:32:51,083 --> 01:32:53,666
just to shark. We briefly touch upon sort
929
01:32:53,666 --> 01:32:55,541
of saw fishes and things and very
930
01:32:55,541 --> 01:32:58,708
briefly. But no, it's I feel like we'd
931
01:32:58,708 --> 01:32:59,875
need a whole other book for that.
932
01:33:00,208 --> 01:33:01,416
Princeton. Well, that's what it sounds
933
01:33:01,416 --> 01:33:02,916
like. I think it just kind of came up
934
01:33:02,916 --> 01:33:05,291
with that idea. I mean, you have to get
935
01:33:05,291 --> 01:33:07,541
on it and maybe bring Dave in to talk
936
01:33:07,541 --> 01:33:09,250
about sharks in the deep sea.
937
01:33:09,291 --> 01:33:12,416
Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Well, my next
938
01:33:12,416 --> 01:33:13,500
book is going to be on the ghost sharks
939
01:33:13,500 --> 01:33:14,916
of the world. So
940
01:33:14,916 --> 01:33:17,708
Princeton's publishing that one.
941
01:33:18,166 --> 01:33:20,500
Awesome. So we'll get that one out there.
942
01:33:20,500 --> 01:33:22,166
Yeah. Well, as we talk, you'll probably
943
01:33:22,166 --> 01:33:23,666
find this out if you haven't already. But
944
01:33:23,666 --> 01:33:25,500
if you we talk about the rays and the and
945
01:33:25,500 --> 01:33:27,875
the chimeras, if you call them flat
946
01:33:27,875 --> 01:33:30,000
sharks or ghost sharks, you'll get a
947
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:30,500
whole different
948
01:33:30,500 --> 01:33:31,500
reaction from the audience.
949
01:33:31,666 --> 01:33:34,500
And you will, if you say raise or yeah,
950
01:33:34,500 --> 01:33:37,291
it's or it's or chimeras, you know, manna
951
01:33:37,291 --> 01:33:38,916
rays in soft fish, you get a
952
01:33:38,916 --> 01:33:40,000
little bit of the reaction.
953
01:33:40,250 --> 01:33:42,333
But yeah, but even even the soft fish,
954
01:33:42,333 --> 01:33:43,625
you don't get as much of a reaction
955
01:33:43,625 --> 01:33:45,875
unless you start talking about shark rays
956
01:33:45,875 --> 01:33:47,833
or if you somehow work shark into the
957
01:33:47,833 --> 01:33:49,125
name, you get a much
958
01:33:49,125 --> 01:33:50,208
better reaction than.
959
01:33:50,625 --> 01:33:52,916
Yeah. And just crazy how powerful that
960
01:33:52,916 --> 01:33:54,541
language is, isn't it? It's just this
961
01:33:54,541 --> 01:33:56,791
subtle language can change the way you
962
01:33:56,791 --> 01:33:57,583
think about the animal
963
01:33:57,583 --> 01:33:59,875
completely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
964
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:03,125
Yeah. I stumbled onto that 15 years ago.
965
01:34:03,125 --> 01:34:05,208
I really saw the power of like, wow, if
966
01:34:05,208 --> 01:34:08,125
you use the right terminology, you'll
967
01:34:08,125 --> 01:34:10,416
just get amazing, amazing
968
01:34:10,416 --> 01:34:12,416
response from this stuff.
969
01:34:13,500 --> 01:34:15,750
So one of the things I want to ask, too,
970
01:34:15,750 --> 01:34:18,583
as we as we kind of wrap up, Sophie, is
971
01:34:18,583 --> 01:34:21,000
you've written a lot about
972
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:23,833
sharks online and posted online.
973
01:34:24,583 --> 01:34:27,041
What's the shark that surprised you most
974
01:34:27,041 --> 01:34:28,750
that people were really paying attention
975
01:34:28,750 --> 01:34:30,458
to, like, you know, that may not have
976
01:34:30,458 --> 01:34:31,625
been in the regular conversation?
977
01:34:31,958 --> 01:34:33,458
Is there is there a particular species
978
01:34:33,458 --> 01:34:35,083
that have come out being like you've
979
01:34:35,083 --> 01:34:36,083
written about you're like, I don't think
980
01:34:36,083 --> 01:34:37,416
this is really going to hit well.
981
01:34:37,416 --> 01:34:38,500
And then all of a sudden people are
982
01:34:38,500 --> 01:34:40,291
generating a lot of interest about. Oh,
983
01:34:40,875 --> 01:34:42,583
that's a really good question.
984
01:34:42,583 --> 01:34:44,750
The one that springs to mind that is one
985
01:34:44,750 --> 01:34:47,125
that I didn't realize was as famous as it
986
01:34:47,125 --> 01:34:48,333
is is the Goblin Shark.
987
01:34:49,083 --> 01:34:51,333
You know, I love. Yeah. I have no idea
988
01:34:51,333 --> 01:34:52,958
that it was such a fan favorite.
989
01:34:53,833 --> 01:34:57,000
But it really is. But you put something
990
01:34:57,000 --> 01:34:59,541
out about a Goblin Shark and people love
991
01:34:59,541 --> 01:35:01,166
it. I think there's a lot more interest
992
01:35:01,166 --> 01:35:03,958
in this mysterious deep sea.
993
01:35:04,666 --> 01:35:06,708
What is down there? Sort of crazy
994
01:35:06,708 --> 01:35:10,166
monsters idea than we knew about before.
995
01:35:10,416 --> 01:35:11,625
And as the technology is getting better,
996
01:35:11,625 --> 01:35:12,708
we're learning more and more.
997
01:35:12,958 --> 01:35:14,250
And those characters, you know, in the
998
01:35:14,250 --> 01:35:15,583
deep sea are starting to become a bit
999
01:35:15,583 --> 01:35:18,083
more, more iconic, really.
1000
01:35:18,958 --> 01:35:21,208
Even just the name Goblin Shark generates
1001
01:35:21,208 --> 01:35:22,791
interest. Right. So good.
1002
01:35:23,458 --> 01:35:25,916
Well, the thing is, if if you see them in
1003
01:35:25,916 --> 01:35:28,666
the wild, which I have there and I tell
1004
01:35:28,666 --> 01:35:30,083
us the audience is they're they're
1005
01:35:30,083 --> 01:35:31,458
literally they're pink with bluish fins
1006
01:35:31,458 --> 01:35:34,541
and like whoever thinks of a pink shark.
1007
01:35:35,125 --> 01:35:37,625
No, exactly. That is so cool.
1008
01:35:38,375 --> 01:35:39,416
That's what that's one of the things I
1009
01:35:39,416 --> 01:35:42,208
talk I talk about people like they think
1010
01:35:42,208 --> 01:35:42,875
sharks are kind of
1011
01:35:42,875 --> 01:35:44,583
gray or brown or black.
1012
01:35:44,833 --> 01:35:47,958
But whoever thinks of a pink shark and no
1013
01:35:47,958 --> 01:35:49,125
street everything. Yeah.
1014
01:35:49,166 --> 01:35:50,208
Well, the thing is, once you preserve
1015
01:35:50,208 --> 01:35:52,291
them, once you preserve them and after
1016
01:35:52,291 --> 01:35:54,833
they're dead, they turn brownish. Right.
1017
01:35:54,833 --> 01:35:56,375
And so people didn't realize if you see
1018
01:35:56,375 --> 01:35:57,916
one alive in the wild,
1019
01:35:57,916 --> 01:35:59,583
they'll be pinkish to a whitish.
1020
01:35:59,583 --> 01:36:01,416
But we see one with like this can be a
1021
01:36:01,416 --> 01:36:03,166
more of the pinkish side with the kind of
1022
01:36:03,166 --> 01:36:05,458
a tinge of bluish fins. Wow.
1023
01:36:05,666 --> 01:36:06,958
It's it's like nobody
1024
01:36:06,958 --> 01:36:08,500
thinks about that for a shark.
1025
01:36:09,625 --> 01:36:11,333
I guess I didn't know that. So I'm now
1026
01:36:11,333 --> 01:36:13,166
going to my computer and I'm going to do
1027
01:36:13,166 --> 01:36:13,875
another little fast
1028
01:36:13,875 --> 01:36:15,125
fact for the Web site.
1029
01:36:15,166 --> 01:36:17,500
Yeah, you have to write another book.
1030
01:36:17,875 --> 01:36:21,291
Yeah, I think that's the book title.
1031
01:36:21,291 --> 01:36:23,916
That's the book. That's my
1032
01:36:23,916 --> 01:36:25,708
autobiography title right there.
1033
01:36:26,958 --> 01:36:31,166
Well, I love this.
1034
01:36:31,833 --> 01:36:33,000
So you're going to be promoting the book
1035
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:34,625
so people can check on the Web site of
1036
01:36:34,625 --> 01:36:35,833
where you're going to be showing up.
1037
01:36:35,833 --> 01:36:37,958
Is that absolutely. And I'm going to all
1038
01:36:37,958 --> 01:36:39,583
on my social media feeds, which you can
1039
01:36:39,583 --> 01:36:40,750
find through my Web site.
1040
01:36:41,250 --> 01:36:43,083
So I'm very active on social media and
1041
01:36:43,083 --> 01:36:45,000
I'll sort of like post a lot of stuff
1042
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:46,000
about where I'm going to be.
1043
01:36:46,333 --> 01:36:47,458
And also, OK, everyone
1044
01:36:47,458 --> 01:36:48,541
could just reach out to me.
1045
01:36:48,541 --> 01:36:50,166
My email is on there. Please feel free to
1046
01:36:50,166 --> 01:36:51,166
like get in touch or
1047
01:36:51,166 --> 01:36:52,583
ask questions or whatever.
1048
01:36:52,583 --> 01:36:55,041
I love hearing from people. Great.
1049
01:36:55,041 --> 01:36:55,791
Perfect. Well, that's good.
1050
01:36:55,791 --> 01:36:57,250
We'll have all that stuff up there and
1051
01:36:57,250 --> 01:36:59,291
we'll when the thing comes out, we'll
1052
01:36:59,291 --> 01:37:01,458
we'll definitely promote it.
1053
01:37:01,708 --> 01:37:03,750
And hopefully people buy lots of people
1054
01:37:03,750 --> 01:37:05,625
buy the book. Yes. Yes.
1055
01:37:05,625 --> 01:37:08,500
And Sophie, can you just just tell
1056
01:37:08,500 --> 01:37:10,125
everybody the Web site just so that
1057
01:37:10,125 --> 01:37:12,250
people can get access to it? Yes.
1058
01:37:12,291 --> 01:37:14,791
So it's www dot Sophie
1059
01:37:14,791 --> 01:37:16,833
Maycock shark speak dot com.
1060
01:37:16,833 --> 01:37:18,833
And you can Google shark speak as well on
1061
01:37:18,833 --> 01:37:20,166
Facebook, on Instagram as well.
1062
01:37:20,166 --> 01:37:22,541
It's very findable. Yeah, not about what.
1063
01:37:22,666 --> 01:37:24,458
We'll also put the link in our show notes
1064
01:37:24,458 --> 01:37:26,458
that people can get access to as well.
1065
01:37:27,416 --> 01:37:29,291
So this has been so great to have you.
1066
01:37:29,291 --> 01:37:30,791
We can't wait to have you on in here more
1067
01:37:30,791 --> 01:37:32,666
about your writing, whether it's a book
1068
01:37:32,666 --> 01:37:34,333
or on the Web site or on social media,
1069
01:37:34,500 --> 01:37:36,000
whatever that might be. We really
1070
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:36,958
appreciate you coming on.
1071
01:37:37,208 --> 01:37:38,458
Oh, thank you so much for having me,
1072
01:37:38,458 --> 01:37:39,708
guys. This has been so great.
1073
01:37:39,708 --> 01:37:41,375
I can't wait to come back. Thanks, guys.
1074
01:37:41,750 --> 01:37:43,416
Thank you, Sophie, for joining us on this
1075
01:37:43,416 --> 01:37:45,208
episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.
1076
01:37:45,208 --> 01:37:47,375
A bonus episode. I promise everybody we
1077
01:37:47,375 --> 01:37:49,833
will have Sophie on for the her full
1078
01:37:49,833 --> 01:37:52,041
journey to learn more about it in a full
1079
01:37:52,041 --> 01:37:54,000
episode very, very soon.
1080
01:37:54,666 --> 01:37:56,291
Dave, what did you think? Like what
1081
01:37:56,291 --> 01:37:57,166
you've had a chance to
1082
01:37:57,166 --> 01:37:58,125
roam through the book?
1083
01:37:58,458 --> 01:38:00,583
What do you think and peruse? What do you
1084
01:38:00,583 --> 01:38:01,708
think? What do you think about the book?
1085
01:38:02,041 --> 01:38:04,083
Terrific book. Terrific book. It was it
1086
01:38:04,083 --> 01:38:05,916
was it's definitely it's definitely a
1087
01:38:05,916 --> 01:38:09,000
this is a this is a get book to have.
1088
01:38:09,500 --> 01:38:12,750
And if you haven't gotten my books, there
1089
01:38:12,750 --> 01:38:15,250
you go. Yes, as well.
1090
01:38:15,958 --> 01:38:18,750
And it was really terrific. I just had
1091
01:38:18,750 --> 01:38:19,958
other than just
1092
01:38:19,958 --> 01:38:21,500
communicating through social media stuff.
1093
01:38:21,500 --> 01:38:22,041
I really didn't know
1094
01:38:22,041 --> 01:38:24,041
Sophie, but boy, she was electric.
1095
01:38:24,458 --> 01:38:26,666
I was just really had a great time
1096
01:38:26,666 --> 01:38:28,375
talking with her, talk to
1097
01:38:28,375 --> 01:38:29,166
her, talk about the book.
1098
01:38:29,208 --> 01:38:31,000
I think the whole way the book came about
1099
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:33,250
actually her whole her old website, the
1100
01:38:33,250 --> 01:38:36,583
Sophie Maycock shark speak the way that
1101
01:38:36,583 --> 01:38:38,208
came about and how she
1102
01:38:38,208 --> 01:38:39,583
got hooked up with Dan Abel.
1103
01:38:39,583 --> 01:38:43,208
It was just it was terrific and joy.
1104
01:38:43,208 --> 01:38:46,375
Talk a little bit about the Jaws fiftieth
1105
01:38:46,375 --> 01:38:48,500
anniversary, which you and Andrew and I
1106
01:38:48,500 --> 01:38:48,958
are going to have a
1107
01:38:48,958 --> 01:38:50,375
special episode coming up.
1108
01:38:50,750 --> 01:38:52,083
We'll talk about a little more later
1109
01:38:52,083 --> 01:38:54,625
coming in June when the shark week when
1110
01:38:54,625 --> 01:38:57,083
Jaws is fiftieth anniversary comes up.
1111
01:38:57,541 --> 01:39:00,000
And so anyway, but yeah, she was she was
1112
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:01,000
terrific. I'm really looking for.
1113
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:02,041
We're definitely going to have her back
1114
01:39:02,041 --> 01:39:05,125
on to share more of her journey and we'll
1115
01:39:05,125 --> 01:39:06,958
talk about I'm sure other things like
1116
01:39:06,958 --> 01:39:09,000
Sharknado and some of these other twisted
1117
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:11,000
things we enjoy talking about.
1118
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:13,500
I like that you twisted for for
1119
01:39:13,500 --> 01:39:14,916
tornadoes. Yeah, exactly.
1120
01:39:15,500 --> 01:39:17,083
You know, it was a great episode. Sophie
1121
01:39:17,083 --> 01:39:20,000
is an amazing person and a great
1122
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:21,458
scientist doing the good
1123
01:39:21,458 --> 01:39:22,833
work of science communication.
1124
01:39:23,291 --> 01:39:25,333
Obviously, we are biased because we are
1125
01:39:25,333 --> 01:39:28,125
definitely, you know, all all like
1126
01:39:28,125 --> 01:39:29,875
everything is in all in on
1127
01:39:29,875 --> 01:39:32,041
on on science communication.
1128
01:39:32,916 --> 01:39:34,666
And it's just it's a lot of fun.
1129
01:39:34,666 --> 01:39:36,833
As Sophie mentioned, we have a lot of fun
1130
01:39:36,833 --> 01:39:38,541
doing it and sort of she and I think
1131
01:39:38,541 --> 01:39:40,833
that's where we really connected here.
1132
01:39:40,833 --> 01:39:41,791
And I think it'll
1133
01:39:41,791 --> 01:39:43,291
connect with with our audience.
1134
01:39:43,541 --> 01:39:45,000
So it's really, really
1135
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:46,375
fun to have a Sophie on.
1136
01:39:46,375 --> 01:39:47,833
I'm going to put we're going to put the
1137
01:39:47,833 --> 01:39:49,833
the links to her book
1138
01:39:49,833 --> 01:39:51,125
through her website.
1139
01:39:51,875 --> 01:39:53,250
You can buy it. You can just click on
1140
01:39:53,250 --> 01:39:54,541
there and you can buy it through there
1141
01:39:54,541 --> 01:39:56,500
and then you get more
1142
01:39:56,500 --> 01:39:57,833
information on the book as well.
1143
01:39:58,458 --> 01:39:59,875
But I highly recommend that everybody
1144
01:39:59,875 --> 01:40:01,375
gets that gets the book.
1145
01:40:01,375 --> 01:40:03,416
It's a lot of fun. If you if you like I
1146
01:40:03,416 --> 01:40:04,750
said, if you thought you knew about
1147
01:40:04,750 --> 01:40:06,958
sharks, think again, because this this
1148
01:40:06,958 --> 01:40:08,458
book will really make you think.
1149
01:40:08,666 --> 01:40:10,041
And I think it's going to be I think
1150
01:40:10,041 --> 01:40:10,791
you're going to enjoy it.
1151
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:12,250
So go there.
1152
01:40:12,791 --> 01:40:15,375
Sharks beak Sophie Bangkok, sharks beak
1153
01:40:15,375 --> 01:40:17,583
dot com or we'll put the link in the show
1154
01:40:17,583 --> 01:40:19,166
notes and they can go for the book.
1155
01:40:19,583 --> 01:40:21,458
And we want to thank you, Dave.
1156
01:40:21,458 --> 01:40:22,666
We thank you. And of course, we want to
1157
01:40:22,666 --> 01:40:24,791
thank Sophie for joining us on today's
1158
01:40:24,791 --> 01:40:26,083
episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.
1159
01:40:26,083 --> 01:40:28,041
Thank you so much from David and I.
1160
01:40:28,041 --> 01:40:29,750
We really appreciate everybody listening,
1161
01:40:30,166 --> 01:40:31,458
supporting us on YouTube,
1162
01:40:32,500 --> 01:40:34,708
supporting us on Instagram.
1163
01:40:34,708 --> 01:40:36,000
Dave, people want to get to
1164
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:37,791
to follow you on Instagram.
1165
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:40,500
How do you just go find a lost shark guy
1166
01:40:40,500 --> 01:40:43,416
and Instagram and check out
1167
01:40:43,416 --> 01:40:45,333
check out our my YouTube thing.
1168
01:40:45,666 --> 01:40:48,375
Lost shark guy in the series Searching
1169
01:40:48,375 --> 01:40:49,416
for Lost Sharks, Extinct
1170
01:40:49,416 --> 01:40:50,875
or Live on YouTube now.
1171
01:40:51,250 --> 01:40:54,250
And it's a new series. Two episodes are
1172
01:40:54,250 --> 01:40:55,208
up for episode three.
1173
01:40:55,208 --> 01:40:57,541
We're going to have here soon. And also
1174
01:40:57,541 --> 01:40:59,541
so please subscribe there and also go to
1175
01:40:59,541 --> 01:41:01,125
the Beyond Jaws YouTube
1176
01:41:01,125 --> 01:41:02,708
site and subscribe there.
1177
01:41:02,708 --> 01:41:04,291
We really appreciate it. And and leave a
1178
01:41:04,291 --> 01:41:05,750
comment on both sites as well.
1179
01:41:05,750 --> 01:41:07,250
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, we'd
1180
01:41:07,250 --> 01:41:08,083
love to hear your feedback.
1181
01:41:08,291 --> 01:41:10,125
Love to hear how you love the show. Maybe
1182
01:41:10,125 --> 01:41:11,625
some some feedback, critical
1183
01:41:11,625 --> 01:41:12,708
feedback we'll take as well.
1184
01:41:13,583 --> 01:41:15,291
And yeah, we just love the fact that
1185
01:41:15,291 --> 01:41:16,500
you're listening. Thank you so much.
1186
01:41:16,916 --> 01:41:18,041
Have a great day. We'll talk to you next
1187
01:41:18,041 --> 01:41:19,333
time and happy conservation.
