The Giant Shark Scientists Still Don’t Understand, New Discoveries from Madagascar

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We have another wonderful episode of the

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Beyond Jaws podcast for you today.

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Today we are speaking to Stella Diamond,

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who is talking about her organization,

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the Madagascar Whale Shark Project

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Foundation that is in and around,

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obviously Madagascar. Uh, but we're

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talking to Stella. She's,

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once we did the interview, she was back

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home in Belgium. She

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talks about, you know,

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discovering how whale sharks really

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inspired her to be, uh, you know,

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as a researcher of whale sharks.

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And you'd be surprised at how much we

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don't know about whale sharks.

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So that's what we're

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going to find out today.

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What we do know now because of the

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research and why science is so important

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in discovering how

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this massive shark, uh,

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has gone really undetected

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by science, I'm going to say,

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not undetected because it's so big,

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but we just don't know much about it from

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a scientific standpoint.

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And she's helping us

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gain more research. We,

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we're going to talk about a lot of

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different things, how her, her, um,

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you know, just sort of her

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connection to Simon Pierce,

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who's been on the podcast before and

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talking about the

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Marine mega foundation and

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how that got her start to, uh, doing

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whale sharks. It's

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going to be a lot of fun.

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We're going to talk a lot about

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everything that has to

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do with whale sharks.

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If you like whale sharks,

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this is the episode for you.

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So let's start the show. Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode

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of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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I'm your cohost, Angelo,

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and here with my cohost,

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cohost Dr. David Ebert. Dave are like, I

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know you, you like whale sharks,

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but I know you prefer the

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lost sharks have yet like,

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has there been a lost shark

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whale shark? Like, is it like,

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we know it's just one species, but you

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know, maybe one day there'll be one that

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you'll be discovering again.

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Well, it's funny because as good as I am

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at finding law sharks,

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I'm not so good at finding whale sharks.

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It's only the biggest fricking fish in

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the ocean. And it's just as I share here

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in the, in the episode,

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it's like been my curse, like

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to find to see a whale shark.

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I've never, every place I go, it's like,

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Oh, guarantee you'll see them here. Dave.

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Now they're not, they just don't show up.

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They don't want to cooperate with me.

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Yeah. Cause you went to,

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when you went to Ecuador,

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you went out diving with the man of trust

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and they were like, Hey,

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we're going to go see, there should be

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some whale sharks here.

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Whale sharks weren't there. You left

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whale sharks came

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showed up two days later.

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So two days later. And then when you went

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to Madagascar recently, uh,

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did you go diving for whale

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sharks or they just weren't,

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it was just what we went out in the,

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well, Stella did in

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fairness. Stella told me,

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she said we're a little early, probably a

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couple of weeks early for the whale

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sharks. I wasn't, my, my hope was not as

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high as it was in other places.

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You didn't go in the water looking for

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them. Yeah, no, we were just, yeah, no,

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I was ready though. I was ready, but, but

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I was just disappointed as I had been.

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And I missed it. We're talking, this goes

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back like 35, 40 years.

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This is a long time. These are just the

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most recent one here. So, um,

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good, good to find it. Law sharks. Just

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don't bring me along for whale sharks.

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That's okay. Cause we're going to find

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out a lot about whale sharks today with

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Stella diamond. Uh, you know,

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why don't you talk a little bit about

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Stella, how you met

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her, uh, because it was,

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you know, it was your connection again

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that, uh, that brought us here with, uh,

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and brought her on the podcast.

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Yeah, actually it was a, uh,

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it was a red Bennett for the wildlife

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conservation society in South Africa.

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He's, uh, does it kind of as a director

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of the shark and Ray program,

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the Western Indian ocean. He connected me

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with her, uh, when I was going to,

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when I was going to send up my expedition

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to Madagascar and we,

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her and I talked a few times and, uh, we

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hooked up and noisy be, uh,

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Madagascar. And it was great. She's just,

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she's a dynamic young woman. Um,

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and she's really on the ball and she's

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got, she, she's got her,

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I got this Madagascar whale shark project

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foundation going. She, you know,

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and as you mentioned, she, uh, got on

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initially with, uh, you know,

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did some stuff with Simon Pierce is a

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good friend of the show.

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He's been on the program and there's a

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few other people that, uh,

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we had a number of other,

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one of these things we had a number of

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mutual connections in the field. Uh,

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we had a chance to meet and it was really

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fun to get to alert,

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get to get to see her,

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get to see her in action and her in the

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field. She works, has a lot of, uh,

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young Malagasy, uh, up and coming

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students, uh, working,

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uh, interning for her.

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And, uh, we did get, uh, we did get to go

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out, uh, went out,

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spent a day on the ocean,

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saw some whales, dolphins, all kinds of

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other marine life, snow whale sharks,

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right. And, um, we did some snorkeling

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and stuff. So it was a

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wonderful time. It was

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great. Anytime you're on the water, you

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know, beautiful ocean

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like this. Great. And yeah,

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the, Hey Stella's she's, uh, yeah, it

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was, for me, it was

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great to see her in action.

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Cause she's, she's a dynamo boy. I tell

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you, I was really, uh,

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impressed. I just didn't know

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much about her cause she works, you know,

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she's in Belgium and she

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goes to, goes to Madagascar

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there. And I hadn't been to Madagascar or

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our paths hadn't crossed

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yet. So, um, but we have now

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and, uh, yeah, it was really, really,

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really awesome having her

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on the show here. Oh, it was.

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And it's, you know, we've seen, uh, you

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know, people like her on

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this podcast a lot where people

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are starting projects on sharks because

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there's just not enough

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information. And we're seeing

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these organizations pop up where they're,

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you know, small organizations

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that employ local people and

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um, you know, uh, work with local

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communities to not only find information

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on the fish that they're

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looking for, the shark that they're

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looking for, but also help the

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communities as well.

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Um, you know, obviously whale sharks is a

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huge ecotourism, uh, um,

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market for in, in Madagascar, but

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there needs to be some, some code of

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ethics as Stella mentioned, and she

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helped produce them.

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Uh, but we've seen in other places too,

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where you're looking at working with the

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local community to get more information

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on these sharks and the

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value that these sharks bring

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to the coastline in this case is to

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tourism. And so we want to make sure that

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these are sharks are going to keep coming

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back and people can

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view them and enjoy them

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in a very ethical way. And I just think

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it's, I just think it's wonderful. So

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let's get started with the interview.

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Here's Stella Diamond talking about the

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Madagascar whale shark project

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foundation, how she got all started

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and all the stuff that goes with it, the

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fun stuff of running an organization.

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Here's the interview we'll talk to you

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after. Hey, Stella, welcome to the Beyond

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Jaws podcast. Are you ready

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to talk about whale sharks?

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Hello, I'm ready. Yes.

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Great. Well, welcome to another episode

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of the Beyond Jaws podcast. We have a

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awesome guest today. We have the fabulous

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Stella DeMont from Belgium, who's the

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founder and director of the Madagascar

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whale shark project.

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An organization doing amazing research

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out of noisy be Madagascar that I had the

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opportunity to actually meet Stella in

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person and organization to get to know

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during my recent expedition to

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Madagascar. Stella was drawn to whale

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sharks after seeing her first whale shark

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in 2014 through the Marine Mega Fauna

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Foundation with Simon Pierce, who was on

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the podcast last May.

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In 2016, Stella presented at the fourth

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International Whale Shark Conference on a

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paper entitled the preliminary

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observation of whale sharks in noisy be

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Madagascar. Stella has had quite the

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journey to where she is today having

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worked in Zambia, Costa Rica, Mozambique,

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Tanzania, Namibia, which favorite country

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of mine, Mexico, Hawaii, and I'm sure a

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whole lot of other places

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will find out about today.

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Stella has 15 publications to her credit,

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including a recent paper that I just

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found out that her and I coauthored were

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entitled only 1% of important shark and

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ray areas in the western Indian Ocean are

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fully protected from fishing pressure.

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So that's something else we have to talk

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about. And she has some breaking news

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today to talk about on our whale shark

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research here. She's been doing in

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Madagascar. Stella did her bachelor's

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degree at the University of

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Warwick in the United Kingdom.

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She has a master's degree in evolution

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and conservation from Imperial College in

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London. And they say her current position

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is she is the founder and director of an

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incredible organization, the Madagascar

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Whale Project, whale shark project. And

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Stella, welcome to the show.

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Thank you, Dave.

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So your whole history. I got you.

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Yeah.

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I do a lot of

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investigation ahead of time.

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So we always ask all of our guests, what

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got you interested in

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marine science and whale sharks?

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01:08:18,291 --> 01:08:19,833
Yes. As you say, it's been quite a

270
01:08:19,833 --> 01:08:22,791
journey. I mean, I come from Brussels in

271
01:08:22,791 --> 01:08:25,458
Belgium, where you have no ocean. And I

272
01:08:25,458 --> 01:08:30,000
wasn't raised up near the sea. I was into

273
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:31,041
nature and horse riding.

274
01:08:31,875 --> 01:08:34,625
And I always wanted to work with animals

275
01:08:34,625 --> 01:08:36,625
somehow. Initially, I wanted to be a vet.

276
01:08:37,375 --> 01:08:40,708
And it's true. A first experience in

277
01:08:40,708 --> 01:08:43,541
Madagascar when I was 21 that I

278
01:08:43,541 --> 01:08:45,375
discovered this country and realized

279
01:08:45,375 --> 01:08:47,250
conservation was a field.

280
01:08:47,791 --> 01:08:49,291
I didn't know, you know, it was kind of

281
01:08:49,291 --> 01:08:52,250
recent at the time. And I really loved

282
01:08:52,250 --> 01:08:54,625
the aspect that you work with

283
01:08:54,625 --> 01:08:56,708
communities, you know, you work towards

284
01:08:56,708 --> 01:08:58,291
species protection. But it's also

285
01:08:58,291 --> 01:08:59,291
something that benefits,

286
01:08:59,583 --> 01:09:00,541
ideally benefits communities.

287
01:09:01,916 --> 01:09:03,791
And I was kind of on my radar. And

288
01:09:03,791 --> 01:09:06,000
obviously, like everyone, I was kind of

289
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,291
dreamt of seeing a whale shark and scuba

290
01:09:08,291 --> 01:09:11,875
diving. And after that first trip, I kind

291
01:09:11,875 --> 01:09:13,083
of got into that, but still

292
01:09:13,083 --> 01:09:14,250
hadn't seen a whale shark.

293
01:09:14,541 --> 01:09:19,000
And then I came back and did my masters

294
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,625
kind of always wanted to go back to

295
01:09:20,625 --> 01:09:23,083
Madagascar. But things got in the way,

296
01:09:23,583 --> 01:09:24,375
ended up in Namibia

297
01:09:24,375 --> 01:09:25,416
and a few other places.

298
01:09:25,875 --> 01:09:29,416
And eventually, I went back there when I

299
01:09:29,416 --> 01:09:32,500
was 24. And that's the year you mentioned

300
01:09:32,500 --> 01:09:34,666
when I saw my first whale shark. That's

301
01:09:34,666 --> 01:09:36,583
when I think a lot of things aligned in

302
01:09:36,583 --> 01:09:39,166
my head that, wow, these animals still

303
01:09:39,166 --> 01:09:40,166
exist and we don't

304
01:09:40,166 --> 01:09:41,875
know anything about them.

305
01:09:41,916 --> 01:09:44,833
And at the time, there was no research

306
01:09:44,833 --> 01:09:47,125
going on. There had been previous work by

307
01:09:47,125 --> 01:09:50,500
by Rachel Graham, but she had stopped and

308
01:09:50,500 --> 01:09:51,916
and so we didn't know how many whale

309
01:09:51,916 --> 01:09:54,000
sharks there were and I was just

310
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,875
fascinated and then feeling quite

311
01:09:56,875 --> 01:09:57,625
comfortable in Madagascar.

312
01:09:57,875 --> 01:10:00,833
There was so much work to be done and

313
01:10:00,833 --> 01:10:04,041
yeah, and very little people or capacity

314
01:10:04,041 --> 01:10:07,208
there. So for a reason, I felt like maybe

315
01:10:07,208 --> 01:10:11,458
I could do it. And that's how I got into

316
01:10:11,458 --> 01:10:13,416
sharks, pretty much. It was quite a

317
01:10:13,416 --> 01:10:15,125
coincidence. And I felt there was an

318
01:10:15,125 --> 01:10:16,833
opportunity there to do something

319
01:10:16,833 --> 01:10:17,708
meaningful in Madagascar.

320
01:10:18,875 --> 01:10:21,000
So what brought you originally to

321
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,166
Madagascar? Like what was that first trip

322
01:10:23,166 --> 01:10:24,750
about? Was it just more of a vacation?

323
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:26,958
Was it you know, say

324
01:10:26,958 --> 01:10:28,375
was around Madagascar?

325
01:10:29,541 --> 01:10:32,291
No, it was a it was a volunteer

326
01:10:32,291 --> 01:10:34,791
experience with the WWF. They have a

327
01:10:34,791 --> 01:10:36,750
program. Okay, I don't know if it still

328
01:10:36,750 --> 01:10:39,125
exists, but basically you write you

329
01:10:39,125 --> 01:10:40,708
apply. And if you're selected, you're

330
01:10:40,708 --> 01:10:42,916
sent to one of their ongoing projects.

331
01:10:42,916 --> 01:10:46,458
And that one then was about coral reefs

332
01:10:46,458 --> 01:10:47,875
and alternative livelihoods.

333
01:10:47,916 --> 01:10:50,083
And so it was already like a first kind

334
01:10:50,083 --> 01:10:55,625
of experience in conservation. Yeah, you

335
01:10:55,625 --> 01:10:57,875
had you had quite you have quite the

336
01:10:57,875 --> 01:11:00,083
resume in terms of a lot of the country,

337
01:11:00,375 --> 01:11:01,250
a whole variety of

338
01:11:01,250 --> 01:11:02,583
countries you've been to.

339
01:11:03,125 --> 01:11:05,000
I'm just kind of curious, like, how did

340
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:06,416
you things like when you went, you've

341
01:11:06,416 --> 01:11:08,541
been to Namibia and Zambia and all this

342
01:11:08,541 --> 01:11:11,000
house came like, because Namibia is what

343
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:12,916
country I really enjoy. How did you

344
01:11:12,916 --> 01:11:13,875
happen to go to Namibia?

345
01:11:13,875 --> 01:11:17,708
So you know, the thing that everyone told

346
01:11:17,708 --> 01:11:20,041
me at uni was that you need to have field

347
01:11:20,041 --> 01:11:22,208
work to be credible in, you know, leading

348
01:11:22,208 --> 01:11:23,750
a project in the field and it was

349
01:11:23,750 --> 01:11:26,041
something. Yeah, I didn't hadn't really

350
01:11:26,041 --> 01:11:29,625
done before. So, so that was kind of my

351
01:11:29,625 --> 01:11:31,791
ambition, you know, I'm going to see if

352
01:11:31,791 --> 01:11:34,000
the field is for me. And so, so I applied

353
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:35,958
to these kind of technical, sorry,

354
01:11:35,958 --> 01:11:39,291
technician positions or ecologists and

355
01:11:39,291 --> 01:11:41,250
you have a range of these positions that

356
01:11:41,250 --> 01:11:42,333
often cover you costs

357
01:11:42,333 --> 01:11:43,625
that don't necessarily pay.

358
01:11:43,875 --> 01:11:46,333
And so ended up with a few projects.

359
01:11:46,333 --> 01:11:50,291
Well, some it's, you know, I think you

360
01:11:50,291 --> 01:11:52,500
should never pay for one, but someday, I

361
01:11:52,500 --> 01:11:54,041
mean, it's interesting in terms of

362
01:11:54,041 --> 01:11:56,916
experience. And, and yes, I ended up

363
01:11:56,916 --> 01:11:58,916
gaining a lot of field field work

364
01:11:58,916 --> 01:12:01,458
experience in a range of fields, I'd say.

365
01:12:01,916 --> 01:12:04,166
So, well, like for example, just kind of

366
01:12:04,166 --> 01:12:06,250
curious on the, so let me, let me back up

367
01:12:06,250 --> 01:12:07,208
a little bit when you're going through

368
01:12:07,208 --> 01:12:08,958
school, like he, when he started to go to

369
01:12:08,958 --> 01:12:10,750
like university and stuff, did you

370
01:12:10,750 --> 01:12:12,041
already kind of know at that point you

371
01:12:12,041 --> 01:12:14,416
wanted to do something in the, in the

372
01:12:14,416 --> 01:12:16,458
science, in the biological sciences or

373
01:12:16,458 --> 01:12:17,833
the marine sciences? Yeah, for sure.

374
01:12:17,916 --> 01:12:21,791
I mean, marine for me, like I'm not going

375
01:12:21,791 --> 01:12:24,625
to lie, it was, it was exciting, but

376
01:12:24,625 --> 01:12:26,625
yeah, it was unknown, you know, it's,

377
01:12:26,625 --> 01:12:28,666
it's not something I grew up with. So it

378
01:12:28,666 --> 01:12:32,416
was more terrestrial initially, but, but

379
01:12:32,416 --> 01:12:35,416
yeah, then I started scuba diving and

380
01:12:35,416 --> 01:12:37,333
discovered all of that. And then, yeah,

381
01:12:37,333 --> 01:12:38,708
it was an environment I

382
01:12:38,708 --> 01:12:38,875
felt very comfortable in.

383
01:12:39,875 --> 01:12:43,083
When you went to like, so I got asked

384
01:12:43,083 --> 01:12:45,208
with Namibia, how did, what did you do in

385
01:12:45,208 --> 01:12:46,000
Namibia? What kind of

386
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:46,833
work did you do there?

387
01:12:48,041 --> 01:12:50,125
I'm not sure you're ready for this. I

388
01:12:50,125 --> 01:12:52,958
studied baboons with behavioral products.

389
01:12:52,958 --> 01:12:54,666
Oh, cool. Yeah.

390
01:12:54,666 --> 01:12:57,416
That, that, yeah. So, I mean, I spent a

391
01:12:57,416 --> 01:12:58,916
lot, when I was a graduate student in

392
01:12:58,916 --> 01:13:00,416
South Africa, people listened to that

393
01:13:00,416 --> 01:13:01,875
podcast. Now I spent a lot of time in

394
01:13:01,875 --> 01:13:03,875
Namibia. So I, so what part of Namibia were you studying the baboons in?

395
01:13:03,916 --> 01:13:09,166
It was in a reserve called Sowbis. It was

396
01:13:09,166 --> 01:13:11,333
kind of, yeah, middle of Namibia pretty

397
01:13:11,333 --> 01:13:14,333
much. And it's a project run by

398
01:13:14,333 --> 01:13:16,916
Zoological Society of London, where

399
01:13:16,916 --> 01:13:19,291
basically you get to know the baboons and

400
01:13:19,291 --> 01:13:21,583
do, you know, focal follows and basically

401
01:13:21,583 --> 01:13:24,416
spend all your days just walking after

402
01:13:24,416 --> 01:13:26,083
them and getting to know them.

403
01:13:26,083 --> 01:13:26,625
Sounds awful.

404
01:13:26,625 --> 01:13:27,875
It was amazing. It was amazing.

405
01:13:28,875 --> 01:13:31,875
Did you get up to any of the, do you go

406
01:13:31,875 --> 01:13:33,500
to any of the, do you see cheetahs very

407
01:13:33,500 --> 01:13:35,416
often there? That was?

408
01:13:36,625 --> 01:13:38,291
No, but I did. I mean, we did some

409
01:13:38,291 --> 01:13:40,500
travels after with the field team and we

410
01:13:40,500 --> 01:13:43,250
saw quite a lot. Like you get so used to

411
01:13:43,250 --> 01:13:45,208
being in that environment and so tuned

412
01:13:45,208 --> 01:13:47,708
in. So it was amazing that feeling to be

413
01:13:47,708 --> 01:13:49,583
really knowing what was going on.

414
01:13:50,500 --> 01:13:51,916
Yeah. Did you, did you get over to the

415
01:13:51,916 --> 01:13:53,875
coast to Swakomat or up to the skeleton coast?

416
01:13:53,875 --> 01:13:55,416
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

417
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,166
An amazing place. Yeah.

418
01:13:59,291 --> 01:14:00,833
Yeah. That's what I said. We, I spent a

419
01:14:00,833 --> 01:14:03,166
whole time. We wait, like I've spent a

420
01:14:03,166 --> 01:14:04,250
lot of time on the coast, but I've been

421
01:14:04,250 --> 01:14:06,166
to, been to the Atasha pan and all that

422
01:14:06,166 --> 01:14:08,291
area all up through there. So I was just,

423
01:14:08,416 --> 01:14:08,875
anyway, got a lot of good memories from that place.

424
01:14:09,291 --> 01:14:13,625
So when you, when you did the, the, it

425
01:14:13,625 --> 01:14:16,083
sounds like all the different experiences

426
01:14:16,083 --> 01:14:18,541
in each country were very different in

427
01:14:18,541 --> 01:14:21,416
terms of like environments in terms of

428
01:14:21,416 --> 01:14:22,208
obviously countries and

429
01:14:22,208 --> 01:14:23,666
cultures and things like that.

430
01:14:24,333 --> 01:14:27,166
What attracted to you, you to do these

431
01:14:27,166 --> 01:14:29,291
different opportunities and one work with

432
01:14:29,291 --> 01:14:31,791
baboons, one work with coral reefs. Like,

433
01:14:31,833 --> 01:14:33,291
was it just more of like, oh, that looks

434
01:14:33,291 --> 01:14:34,833
cool. Like, I'm going to try and get more

435
01:14:34,833 --> 01:14:38,083
field work in this area or on land and in

436
01:14:38,083 --> 01:14:38,875
underwater. And then you get a lot of different experiences.

437
01:14:38,916 --> 01:14:40,500
And that like, why, like, why didn't you

438
01:14:40,500 --> 01:14:42,541
just pick underwater for all of it or why

439
01:14:42,541 --> 01:14:44,250
did you pick land for all of it? Or you

440
01:14:44,250 --> 01:14:45,041
were just going for that

441
01:14:45,041 --> 01:14:46,250
variety? Was that on purpose?

442
01:14:48,125 --> 01:14:51,041
I'm not sure. I think it was what I could

443
01:14:51,041 --> 01:14:52,875
get at the time. It was, I mean, it was,

444
01:14:52,875 --> 01:14:54,416
and I'm sure it still is incredibly

445
01:14:54,416 --> 01:14:57,250
competitive with how you know and whether

446
01:14:57,250 --> 01:15:00,208
you qualify the languages you speak. But

447
01:15:00,208 --> 01:15:02,000
I was just, I mean, it's always been a

448
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:03,791
bit of a problem, but I see it as a

449
01:15:03,791 --> 01:15:04,875
strength out, I would say.

450
01:15:04,916 --> 01:15:08,666
But everything interests me and I and I

451
01:15:08,666 --> 01:15:10,458
have always struggled to choose, you

452
01:15:10,458 --> 01:15:11,666
know, because I think there's so much to

453
01:15:11,666 --> 01:15:15,291
do with so many fields and yeah, so it

454
01:15:15,291 --> 01:15:16,125
was just a general

455
01:15:16,125 --> 01:15:16,875
interest for a lot of stuff.

456
01:15:16,875 --> 01:15:20,916
But eventually, what made me kind of, I

457
01:15:20,916 --> 01:15:22,208
was, I don't know if I picked my, I

458
01:15:22,208 --> 01:15:25,041
guess, picked me, but how this whole

459
01:15:25,041 --> 01:15:27,583
project happened, it was, it was mainly

460
01:15:27,583 --> 01:15:31,375
because I felt, yeah, I could, yeah, I

461
01:15:31,375 --> 01:15:33,083
could do something, you know, tangible

462
01:15:33,083 --> 01:15:35,791
and long term and and I find, yeah,

463
01:15:35,791 --> 01:15:37,416
that's the, it's the kind of opportunity

464
01:15:37,416 --> 01:15:39,208
I was looking for, you know, to not just

465
01:15:39,208 --> 01:15:41,833
come through and leave, but be there for

466
01:15:41,833 --> 01:15:42,791
longer and really build

467
01:15:42,791 --> 01:15:43,875
something that would last.

468
01:15:43,875 --> 01:15:46,458
So that was, I think, my initial

469
01:15:46,458 --> 01:15:49,708
ambition. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you're

470
01:15:49,708 --> 01:15:51,583
definitely the explorer type. I can, I

471
01:15:51,583 --> 01:15:54,416
can tell, tell from that. Did you have,

472
01:15:54,708 --> 01:15:58,375
did you spend time in like, like you, you

473
01:15:58,375 --> 01:16:00,208
were in Mozambique in Tanzania and I

474
01:16:00,208 --> 01:16:01,708
assume looking at some whale sharks there

475
01:16:01,708 --> 01:16:03,458
with Simon and the Marine

476
01:16:11,166 --> 01:16:12,583
and I think that's really, so then when

477
01:16:12,583 --> 01:16:14,125
you first went to like sort of

478
01:16:14,125 --> 01:16:15,916
Madagascar, did you have any kind of a

479
01:16:15,916 --> 01:16:19,125
clue you might see them there or did you?

480
01:16:19,125 --> 01:16:23,083
At the time, I mean, like people, locals

481
01:16:23,083 --> 01:16:24,791
knew they were there, but it's, it's a,

482
01:16:24,791 --> 01:16:26,958
as you know, David, it's a big country.

483
01:16:27,791 --> 01:16:29,000
Some people, you know, haven't traveled

484
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:30,583
to other places. It's, it's still, it's

485
01:16:30,583 --> 01:16:33,125
very remote, especially at that time. And

486
01:16:33,125 --> 01:16:35,041
so actually I overheard

487
01:16:35,041 --> 01:16:37,958
in a, like in a tiny hotel.

488
01:16:39,166 --> 01:16:41,625
I had been traveling in Madagascar, like

489
01:16:41,625 --> 01:16:44,666
a kind of a month helping out on some

490
01:16:44,666 --> 01:16:47,833
projects I knew back then. And then my

491
01:16:47,833 --> 01:16:50,041
mom came to meet me and we had planned to

492
01:16:50,041 --> 01:16:51,791
go to the north. And then we were

493
01:16:51,791 --> 01:16:53,250
speaking to some people who just got back

494
01:16:53,250 --> 01:16:53,916
and they said, you know,

495
01:16:53,916 --> 01:16:55,125
we've seen whale sharks there.

496
01:16:55,125 --> 01:16:56,583
And I was like, Oh, I didn't know they

497
01:16:56,583 --> 01:16:58,291
were here. Like it was just that kind of

498
01:16:58,291 --> 01:17:00,541
coincidence. And then, and then my mom

499
01:17:00,541 --> 01:17:02,291
got quite sick on that trip. So she was

500
01:17:02,291 --> 01:17:03,916
like, okay, I'm just gonna sit this one

501
01:17:03,916 --> 01:17:06,875
out. So we went together the first day.

502
01:17:06,875 --> 01:17:07,125
I'll always remember.

503
01:17:07,166 --> 01:17:09,666
And then I went out a few more days. And

504
01:17:09,666 --> 01:17:11,416
back then, yeah, it was just, there was

505
01:17:11,416 --> 01:17:14,500
no one around. It was, it was raining. It

506
01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:17,416
was the water was dark, but yeah, I'll

507
01:17:17,416 --> 01:17:18,541
always remember that

508
01:17:18,541 --> 01:17:20,666
kind of feeling. Yeah.

509
01:17:22,166 --> 01:17:24,416
I know. After I came back, I, we did a, I

510
01:17:24,416 --> 01:17:26,125
did a podcast on, on talk about

511
01:17:26,125 --> 01:17:27,625
Madagascar and it was definitely one of

512
01:17:27,625 --> 01:17:29,750
the, and I've been to a lot of places,

513
01:17:29,750 --> 01:17:31,250
but one of the more difficult places to

514
01:17:31,250 --> 01:17:33,291
get around, especially when you go, when

515
01:17:33,291 --> 01:17:35,166
you went down to the south after Noisy B.

516
01:17:35,166 --> 01:17:36,708
It's just, if you're right there, it's

517
01:17:36,708 --> 01:17:37,875
sort of, you go out in the boat, but

518
01:17:37,875 --> 01:17:40,125
it's, it's definitely not an easy country

519
01:17:40,125 --> 01:17:42,375
to get around to do a lot of stuff. You

520
01:17:42,375 --> 01:17:44,583
really have to have to get around.

521
01:17:45,541 --> 01:17:47,708
And so, so when you, so after you saw

522
01:17:47,708 --> 01:17:49,708
your first sort of whale shark there,

523
01:17:50,250 --> 01:17:52,000
you, you went back, you're all excited.

524
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:53,500
You wanted to do like, you're decided

525
01:17:53,500 --> 01:17:54,708
you're going to start this foundation.

526
01:17:56,166 --> 01:17:59,458
No, no, no, I was, I was, I mean, it's a,

527
01:17:59,666 --> 01:18:01,416
I'm surprised I got this far, to be

528
01:18:01,416 --> 01:18:02,833
honest. No, no, I mean, my

529
01:18:02,833 --> 01:18:04,125
initial, you know, I was what?

530
01:18:05,166 --> 01:18:07,458
24, 25 then. So I came back and like

531
01:18:07,458 --> 01:18:09,000
everyone else, you know, I Googled like

532
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,541
who's working on whale sharks now and got

533
01:18:11,541 --> 01:18:14,000
in touch with Rachel and eventually I got

534
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,458
in touch with Denny Ramirez who, who's

535
01:18:17,458 --> 01:18:18,958
been amazing at the

536
01:18:18,958 --> 01:18:19,833
time who works in Mexico.

537
01:18:20,166 --> 01:18:22,041
And she said, well, you should talk to

538
01:18:22,041 --> 01:18:23,625
Simon. He works in that region. Maybe

539
01:18:23,625 --> 01:18:25,875
he's interested in, in helping you out.

540
01:18:25,875 --> 01:18:28,500
So that's eventually how I, you know, I

541
01:18:28,500 --> 01:18:30,333
spoke to Simon who back then was

542
01:18:30,333 --> 01:18:32,875
unattainable for me and he said, yeah,

543
01:18:32,875 --> 01:18:36,208
actually we've had a decrease, like a big

544
01:18:36,208 --> 01:18:37,791
decline in the sightings in Mozambique.

545
01:18:39,166 --> 01:18:39,416
So I was like, well, I'm going to

546
01:18:39,416 --> 01:18:42,000
Madagascar. Let's, let's try to train you

547
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:43,708
up and then to find some funding for you

548
01:18:43,708 --> 01:18:46,708
to do like a first year of monitoring,

549
01:18:46,708 --> 01:18:48,666
you know, photo ID. So that's how

550
01:18:48,666 --> 01:18:55,125
eventually, yeah, I met Simon in 2015 in

551
01:18:55,125 --> 01:18:57,500
Tanzania and pretty much straight me up

552
01:18:57,500 --> 01:18:59,291
in photo ID and I was useless.

553
01:19:00,166 --> 01:19:02,666
I couldn't keep up with the sharks. I was

554
01:19:02,666 --> 01:19:05,000
just like, how am I going to what what am

555
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,250
I getting myself into? And then, you

556
01:19:07,250 --> 01:19:09,416
know, slowly, like it took a lot of

557
01:19:09,416 --> 01:19:11,000
dedication. Like I moved back on my

558
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:13,333
parents. I didn't have a job. I was just

559
01:19:13,333 --> 01:19:15,250
writing up these grants without knowing

560
01:19:15,250 --> 01:19:16,083
how to write up grants.

561
01:19:16,166 --> 01:19:18,625
And then eventually we got like a first

562
01:19:18,625 --> 01:19:22,166
bucket of money for me to go in 2016 and

563
01:19:22,166 --> 01:19:25,083
and back then I had kind of got in touch

564
01:19:25,083 --> 01:19:28,000
with a few operators and the ones I still

565
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:31,208
work with now were kind of the leaders in

566
01:19:31,208 --> 01:19:35,583
tourism, like we're watching in swimming

567
01:19:35,583 --> 01:19:36,125
with where sharks industry.

568
01:19:36,166 --> 01:19:38,250
They were like, yeah, I mean, you can

569
01:19:38,250 --> 01:19:40,000
come on the boat for free and collect

570
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:41,958
data and then, you know, we'll see how

571
01:19:41,958 --> 01:19:44,708
that goes. And so I went out like every

572
01:19:44,708 --> 01:19:47,125
day that first year and then we got more

573
01:19:47,125 --> 01:19:48,375
than 100 different

574
01:19:48,375 --> 01:19:49,375
whale sharks identified.

575
01:19:58,166 --> 01:19:59,500
And then we had the jobs and expeditions

576
01:19:59,500 --> 01:20:02,750
and yeah, still doing a bunch of

577
01:20:02,750 --> 01:20:04,500
different stuff, but it was slowly kind

578
01:20:04,500 --> 01:20:07,500
of taking over and then since yeah, I

579
01:20:07,500 --> 01:20:10,791
think since after COVID we had a two year

580
01:20:10,791 --> 01:20:13,208
force break, I think like everyone and

581
01:20:13,208 --> 01:20:14,833
then since 2022, I'm just

582
01:20:14,833 --> 01:20:16,666
everybody had a full time. Yeah.

583
01:20:19,166 --> 01:20:20,291
Yeah, I didn't know it was going to

584
01:20:20,291 --> 01:20:22,750
become a foundation or anything. It was

585
01:20:22,750 --> 01:20:24,291
just kind of a right. Let's see where

586
01:20:24,291 --> 01:20:27,166
this goes. And I think it was good in a

587
01:20:27,166 --> 01:20:28,750
way. Again, no expectations.

588
01:20:30,333 --> 01:20:32,875
Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting. You

589
01:20:32,875 --> 01:20:34,166
know, you mentioned to me there's a lot

590
01:20:34,166 --> 01:20:35,541
to unpack and just what you said there

591
01:20:35,541 --> 01:20:36,625
because there's so much information that

592
01:20:36,625 --> 01:20:37,750
I want to find out more about.

593
01:20:38,708 --> 01:20:40,083
You mentioned when you first started

594
01:20:40,083 --> 01:20:41,833
swimming with them and you first started

595
01:20:41,833 --> 01:20:43,583
trying to like free diving was difficult.

596
01:20:43,583 --> 01:20:45,041
I can see that like that doesn't look

597
01:20:45,041 --> 01:20:47,000
like an easy thing to do. But keeping up

598
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:48,500
with them was difficult too.

599
01:20:49,041 --> 01:20:51,833
I think a lot of people when we see whale

600
01:20:51,833 --> 01:20:55,833
sharks in a video or on TV, we don't

601
01:20:55,833 --> 01:20:57,583
realize just like sometimes with great

602
01:20:57,583 --> 01:20:59,250
whites and other things, other sharks we

603
01:20:59,250 --> 01:21:00,916
see, we don't realize how slowed down the

604
01:21:00,916 --> 01:21:03,125
video is with these with these sharks.

605
01:21:03,166 --> 01:21:06,875
They like whale sharks. I've been told

606
01:21:06,875 --> 01:21:08,875
like the reason why people snorkel when

607
01:21:08,875 --> 01:21:10,250
they swim with them is because they have

608
01:21:10,250 --> 01:21:11,958
to get back on the boat to like kind of

609
01:21:11,958 --> 01:21:14,458
follow them because they move so quickly

610
01:21:14,458 --> 01:21:16,708
through the water. Was that what you mean

611
01:21:16,708 --> 01:21:18,166
by you had trouble keeping up with them?

612
01:21:19,916 --> 01:21:22,000
Yeah, I mean, they swim really fast and

613
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:25,000
you have to give everything each time.

614
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:26,708
And I mean, it's a habit, you know, like

615
01:21:26,708 --> 01:21:29,416
now now it's easy. But at the time it was

616
01:21:29,416 --> 01:21:31,750
and the pace, you know, it's very fast

617
01:21:31,750 --> 01:21:33,708
pace. It's not like maybe I go in or not.

618
01:21:33,708 --> 01:21:35,458
It's like you have to go in now and you

619
01:21:35,458 --> 01:21:36,833
cannot hesitate or think

620
01:21:36,833 --> 01:21:37,875
back or forget something.

621
01:21:38,166 --> 01:21:41,791
And so, yeah, initially, especially that

622
01:21:41,791 --> 01:21:44,333
first that first experience in Tanzania,

623
01:21:44,333 --> 01:21:46,625
I mean, I was with like the best guys

624
01:21:46,625 --> 01:21:49,750
from MmF and I felt completely out of my

625
01:21:49,750 --> 01:21:51,958
comfort zone and completely useless.

626
01:21:54,166 --> 01:21:56,291
Yeah. Had you done any. Have you been

627
01:21:56,291 --> 01:21:57,583
freediving before? Was that your

628
01:21:57,583 --> 01:21:59,375
literally your first first time you're

629
01:21:59,375 --> 01:22:00,708
freediving was with the whale sharks?

630
01:22:02,166 --> 01:22:04,708
Yeah, I mean, I didn't even really know

631
01:22:04,708 --> 01:22:06,000
about it except, you know, from some

632
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:08,333
movies and and then after that

633
01:22:08,333 --> 01:22:09,416
experience, I was like, OK, I'm going to

634
01:22:09,416 --> 01:22:11,125
learn properly. So I did like the first

635
01:22:11,125 --> 01:22:13,625
level. And now it's become a hobby and a

636
01:22:13,625 --> 01:22:15,333
passion and something I

637
01:22:15,333 --> 01:22:17,083
do as a sport as well.

638
01:22:17,083 --> 01:22:20,791
And it's opened up. So like a new

639
01:22:20,791 --> 01:22:24,500
dimension for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

640
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:26,291
When you're when you're out doing your

641
01:22:26,291 --> 01:22:28,291
whale shark stuff now, is it pretty much

642
01:22:28,291 --> 01:22:29,916
either yourself or some of the

643
01:22:29,916 --> 01:22:31,125
volunteers, people you have work working with?

644
01:22:31,166 --> 01:22:34,583
You pretty much free to have to free dive

645
01:22:34,583 --> 01:22:37,000
to get like a photographic identification

646
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:41,416
of the things. I mean, we yeah, we we ask

647
01:22:41,416 --> 01:22:43,416
that people have, you know, I mean, we

648
01:22:43,416 --> 01:22:44,875
used to have a volunteer program that

649
01:22:44,875 --> 01:22:46,750
we've stopped now for a range of reasons.

650
01:22:46,750 --> 01:22:50,000
And we focused only on Malagasy students.

651
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:52,500
And it's one of the aspects of the

652
01:22:52,500 --> 01:22:54,375
projects. I'm really proud of. And I

653
01:22:54,375 --> 01:22:56,583
think it's super important. And so this

654
01:22:56,583 --> 01:22:57,333
year, yeah, we trained

655
01:22:57,333 --> 01:22:58,125
them up when in freediving.

656
01:22:58,166 --> 01:23:00,875
And it's great to see them, you know,

657
01:23:00,875 --> 01:23:02,916
becoming comfortable with that as well.

658
01:23:03,208 --> 01:23:06,333
And yeah. Yeah, I was going to say you

659
01:23:06,333 --> 01:23:09,125
did just my experience there with you.

660
01:23:09,125 --> 01:23:10,958
You definitely really getting a lot of

661
01:23:10,958 --> 01:23:14,458
the Malagasy local people involved, young

662
01:23:14,458 --> 01:23:16,333
young people involved, excited about the

663
01:23:16,333 --> 01:23:18,583
whole thing. And so you're getting them

664
01:23:18,583 --> 01:23:21,125
all trained up, I guess, to kind of help

665
01:23:21,125 --> 01:23:22,708
help kind of fill in when

666
01:23:22,708 --> 01:23:24,125
you're not there in country.

667
01:23:24,166 --> 01:23:27,166
Do they get out and they go

668
01:23:27,166 --> 01:23:28,041
out in the field this time?

669
01:23:29,750 --> 01:23:32,000
It's still is like one of the more

670
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:34,000
difficult aspects of running a project

671
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:36,208
that is seasonal is that some of the

672
01:23:36,208 --> 01:23:38,666
year, you know, now it's cyclone season,

673
01:23:38,666 --> 01:23:39,750
the boats out of the water,

674
01:23:40,125 --> 01:23:42,125
everyone's off or so it's.

675
01:23:43,166 --> 01:23:45,125
Yeah, with the team, I mean, we kind of

676
01:23:45,125 --> 01:23:47,083
try juggle this. So we one of the

677
01:23:47,083 --> 01:23:48,666
students, he just came back now, he was

678
01:23:48,666 --> 01:23:50,750
doing interviews with fishermen. And then

679
01:23:50,750 --> 01:23:53,291
another one is back in his hometown now,

680
01:23:53,291 --> 01:23:54,083
but still everyone is

681
01:23:54,083 --> 01:23:55,291
working kind of remotely.

682
01:23:55,625 --> 01:23:58,666
But it's it's mainly to have a, you know,

683
01:23:58,875 --> 01:24:01,041
good solid team so that when again, when

684
01:24:01,041 --> 01:24:02,750
you see the whale sharks, you're in a

685
01:24:02,750 --> 01:24:04,375
position where you can actually collect

686
01:24:04,375 --> 01:24:06,375
data and be efficient because because

687
01:24:06,375 --> 01:24:07,125
we're seeing less and less of them.

688
01:24:07,166 --> 01:24:10,250
And there's more and more tourists. So

689
01:24:10,250 --> 01:24:13,000
it's becoming like the opportunity we

690
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:15,208
have to to do work on them is becoming

691
01:24:15,208 --> 01:24:18,708
quite limited. Yeah, some of the some of

692
01:24:18,708 --> 01:24:20,166
the young people you have work in there,

693
01:24:20,166 --> 01:24:21,333
like some of the students, I mean,

694
01:24:21,333 --> 01:24:23,166
they're they're actually working towards

695
01:24:23,166 --> 01:24:24,291
like graduate degrees,

696
01:24:24,291 --> 01:24:25,125
like Masters or PhD with you.

697
01:24:26,166 --> 01:24:29,541
Yeah, so we each each year we as part of

698
01:24:29,541 --> 01:24:33,666
our commitment and our agreements with

699
01:24:33,666 --> 01:24:35,083
the different institutions we work with

700
01:24:35,083 --> 01:24:38,166
in in the country we we accommodate at

701
01:24:38,166 --> 01:24:41,291
least one but now to students in at the

702
01:24:41,291 --> 01:24:42,958
Masters level, we have collaborations

703
01:24:42,958 --> 01:24:45,791
with different universities is only three

704
01:24:45,791 --> 01:24:47,416
for now that do marine biology and we

705
01:24:47,416 --> 01:24:48,125
collaborate with all three.

706
01:24:48,166 --> 01:24:51,791
And then so but this year we had also

707
01:24:51,791 --> 01:24:54,041
bachelor student from one of the three

708
01:24:54,041 --> 01:24:56,583
unis that we started working with this

709
01:24:56,583 --> 01:24:59,250
year. And then and then what we'd like to

710
01:24:59,250 --> 01:25:01,250
do is we you know we keep welcoming them

711
01:25:01,250 --> 01:25:02,791
again and they can grow their projects

712
01:25:02,791 --> 01:25:05,750
and and really work towards.

713
01:25:06,291 --> 01:25:09,041
Yeah, more ambition. So I'm a lose one of

714
01:25:09,041 --> 01:25:12,125
the few students we had before he's come

715
01:25:12,125 --> 01:25:13,750
back now two years in a row and he's

716
01:25:13,750 --> 01:25:15,500
starting this month's his PhD in

717
01:25:15,500 --> 01:25:18,000
Madagascar first one on sharks. Oh, nice.

718
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,500
So yeah, oh, nice. Really cool. Yeah.

719
01:25:20,666 --> 01:25:22,333
Well, I mean, there's a lot there. I

720
01:25:22,333 --> 01:25:24,541
there's there's a lot of stuff done on

721
01:25:24,541 --> 01:25:26,125
sharks years ago, but they're just

722
01:25:26,125 --> 01:25:28,750
nothing really has been done recently on

723
01:25:28,750 --> 01:25:30,125
any of the sharks really there.

724
01:25:31,166 --> 01:25:33,250
Obviously, well sharks are such a high

725
01:25:33,250 --> 01:25:35,458
profile. Is there much of a tourism

726
01:25:35,458 --> 01:25:38,166
industry diving with the well sharks up

727
01:25:38,166 --> 01:25:39,416
there? Is it much of a tourist

728
01:25:39,416 --> 01:25:42,000
attraction? Yeah, it's become huge. It's

729
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:44,958
become huge now. Yeah. Yeah. And you were

730
01:25:44,958 --> 01:25:46,708
involved in like developing some of the

731
01:25:46,708 --> 01:25:48,625
protocols for people diving

732
01:25:48,625 --> 01:25:50,125
with with the well sharks there.

733
01:25:50,166 --> 01:25:54,750
Yes, I mean, it was it was part of the

734
01:25:54,750 --> 01:25:57,791
initial plan, you know, when Simon so

735
01:25:57,791 --> 01:25:59,791
after I trained with Simon in Tanzania,

736
01:25:59,791 --> 01:26:01,916
he came out, I think, three years in a

737
01:26:01,916 --> 01:26:05,666
row, helping me tag and and it was I

738
01:26:05,666 --> 01:26:07,333
mean, the tourism back then was still

739
01:26:07,333 --> 01:26:09,958
manageable and quite small. So yeah, he

740
01:26:09,958 --> 01:26:11,208
told me immediately you need to have a

741
01:26:11,208 --> 01:26:12,500
code of conduct and you need to train

742
01:26:12,500 --> 01:26:14,000
people up. Otherwise, it's just going to

743
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:17,583
go mad. So we've initially was just like

744
01:26:17,583 --> 01:26:18,625
a voluntary code of

745
01:26:18,625 --> 01:26:19,833
conduct and then we've done.

746
01:26:20,583 --> 01:26:22,750
Free training for years and years and now

747
01:26:22,750 --> 01:26:28,875
since end of 2023, it's become official

748
01:26:28,875 --> 01:26:30,958
decree in Madagascar. And so far, it's

749
01:26:30,958 --> 01:26:32,916
the only country in Africa that has an

750
01:26:32,916 --> 01:26:35,958
official decree. So operators, they have

751
01:26:35,958 --> 01:26:38,333
to follow this law and tourists as well.

752
01:26:38,541 --> 01:26:39,875
The issue we have now is enforcement

753
01:26:39,875 --> 01:26:41,166
because obviously if no one's telling

754
01:26:41,166 --> 01:26:43,500
people off, they say yes, and then they

755
01:26:43,500 --> 01:26:45,416
do the other thing. So we're working

756
01:26:45,416 --> 01:26:47,791
closely now with authorities and we we

757
01:26:47,791 --> 01:26:49,125
did the first like patrols at sea.

758
01:26:49,166 --> 01:26:52,708
This year to really warn people about,

759
01:26:52,708 --> 01:26:55,333
you know, consequences and and encourage

760
01:26:55,333 --> 01:26:57,833
them to follow these rules. But it's very

761
01:26:57,833 --> 01:27:00,750
complicated topic in most places in the

762
01:27:00,750 --> 01:27:02,875
world unless you have very strict rules

763
01:27:02,875 --> 01:27:05,291
and enforcement. It's difficult. You're

764
01:27:05,291 --> 01:27:07,083
underwater. You're with the species that

765
01:27:07,083 --> 01:27:10,125
moves. It's complicated. Yeah.

766
01:27:10,416 --> 01:27:13,875
Yeah. Yeah. So so so with your with with

767
01:27:13,875 --> 01:27:16,500
you got your developing the same. How

768
01:27:16,500 --> 01:27:18,416
many how many sharks have you tagged now?

769
01:27:19,333 --> 01:27:23,666
You've been in put out the satellite tags

770
01:27:23,666 --> 01:27:25,791
we did with Simon the first year we had

771
01:27:25,791 --> 01:27:28,625
eight and then since we've moved to

772
01:27:28,625 --> 01:27:31,375
acoustic tagging because we really wanted

773
01:27:31,375 --> 01:27:33,833
to know how much they were using this bay

774
01:27:33,833 --> 01:27:35,625
because there's the tourism but there's

775
01:27:35,625 --> 01:27:38,750
also like a marine protected area plans

776
01:27:38,750 --> 01:27:40,125
and so we wanted to be able to

777
01:27:40,166 --> 01:27:42,625
contribute to that and we've deployed

778
01:27:42,625 --> 01:27:45,666
more than 60 now since the last few

779
01:27:45,666 --> 01:27:48,625
years. Can you still can you explain just

780
01:27:48,625 --> 01:27:50,291
for the audience the difference between

781
01:27:50,291 --> 01:27:53,166
the satellite tags and an acoustic tag in

782
01:27:53,166 --> 01:27:55,500
terms of how it's put on how it functions

783
01:27:55,500 --> 01:27:58,500
just in general? Yeah, I mean so he

784
01:27:58,500 --> 01:28:00,500
attaches externally both of them for

785
01:28:00,500 --> 01:28:02,291
sharks because they have such thick skin.

786
01:28:02,291 --> 01:28:04,416
You cannot just like do it like you would

787
01:28:04,416 --> 01:28:07,250
with another shark. So you have a kind of

788
01:28:07,250 --> 01:28:10,041
an adapted spear where you you have the

789
01:28:10,166 --> 01:28:12,416
like a little anchor like a razor blade

790
01:28:12,416 --> 01:28:14,791
and then a little thread and then the tag

791
01:28:14,791 --> 01:28:18,333
and then you just kind of aim at it like

792
01:28:18,333 --> 01:28:20,958
you would for a skin sample. It's it's

793
01:28:20,958 --> 01:28:22,583
quite similar and the type sorry the

794
01:28:22,583 --> 01:28:25,375
shark doesn't usually react because again

795
01:28:25,375 --> 01:28:27,125
the skin is very thick. So it's just

796
01:28:27,125 --> 01:28:30,833
gonna kind of lay itself within the like

797
01:28:30,833 --> 01:28:33,750
the the skin denticles and stay there for

798
01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:35,916
sometimes they fall off sometimes they

799
01:28:35,916 --> 01:28:38,833
stay for years. But usually with the

800
01:28:38,833 --> 01:28:40,125
acoustics they can stay for a few years.

801
01:28:40,166 --> 01:28:42,833
And then the difference is that the

802
01:28:42,833 --> 01:28:44,958
acoustic tags they really need a receiver

803
01:28:44,958 --> 01:28:47,875
station. So it's kind of a communications

804
01:28:47,875 --> 01:28:50,500
they have between the two units and then

805
01:28:50,500 --> 01:28:52,000
you need these receiver stations that

806
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:53,875
will kind of collect the data from the

807
01:28:53,875 --> 01:28:56,166
tag sharks. So the more tag sharks you

808
01:28:56,166 --> 01:28:57,541
have the more data likely you're going to

809
01:28:57,541 --> 01:28:59,333
have if they stick around if they go

810
01:28:59,333 --> 01:29:00,958
somewhere else unless you have other

811
01:29:00,958 --> 01:29:03,958
stations there. You don't really have

812
01:29:03,958 --> 01:29:05,416
data which is one of the issues we have

813
01:29:05,416 --> 01:29:07,041
in Madagascar. We're now collaborating

814
01:29:07,041 --> 01:29:09,125
with other researchers, especially one person.

815
01:29:09,166 --> 01:29:14,000
So who's working on cetacean so he has

816
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:15,625
also received a station's couple to

817
01:29:15,625 --> 01:29:17,916
hydrophones and that way we can have data

818
01:29:17,916 --> 01:29:21,625
about our sharks. But otherwise, yeah,

819
01:29:21,916 --> 01:29:23,416
unless I mean Madagascar at the moment,

820
01:29:23,416 --> 01:29:25,791
no one else is doing acoustics and then

821
01:29:25,791 --> 01:29:29,041
satellite tags, they will give you very

822
01:29:29,041 --> 01:29:31,750
neat data whenever a shark comes back to

823
01:29:31,750 --> 01:29:33,541
the surface to feed. So usually it

824
01:29:33,541 --> 01:29:35,166
indicates that the shark is surface

825
01:29:35,166 --> 01:29:37,375
feeding. So you will have like these nice

826
01:29:37,375 --> 01:29:38,875
kind of GPS tracks you can

827
01:29:38,875 --> 01:29:39,125
see even if you're in the

828
01:29:39,166 --> 01:29:47,083
water, you can have a few years. Right.

829
01:29:47,416 --> 01:29:49,750
And the receivers for acoustics, the

830
01:29:49,750 --> 01:29:52,333
hydrophones they stay, they stay in the

831
01:29:52,333 --> 01:29:54,333
water. How deep are they when you put

832
01:29:54,333 --> 01:29:55,625
them in? Because I know like whale sharks

833
01:29:55,625 --> 01:29:58,166
can there. They're not a shallow species

834
01:29:58,166 --> 01:30:00,708
necessarily. So are they floating in a

835
01:30:00,708 --> 01:30:03,041
buoy system like maybe mid water column?

836
01:30:03,500 --> 01:30:04,125
Or do they have different systems? We've started using the second system now. So I think that's one of the things that we need to do.

837
01:30:04,458 --> 01:30:05,833
Or do they stay at the top? You have

838
01:30:05,833 --> 01:30:08,291
different systems. We've started using

839
01:30:08,291 --> 01:30:10,208
the second system now, but usually you

840
01:30:10,208 --> 01:30:14,000
have a mooring that you kind of deploy to

841
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:16,125
a place you can dive and then you need to

842
01:30:16,125 --> 01:30:18,416
pick up these receivers. We do it twice a

843
01:30:18,416 --> 01:30:20,625
year to get the data. Otherwise, you kind

844
01:30:20,625 --> 01:30:24,791
of get it. So we have we have eight that

845
01:30:24,791 --> 01:30:27,041
we have in relatively shallow waters so

846
01:30:27,041 --> 01:30:30,625
that you know anyone who can dive has a

847
01:30:30,625 --> 01:30:32,833
good, good experience diving can go. So

848
01:30:32,833 --> 01:30:33,125
they're between 20 and 30 minutes.

849
01:30:33,166 --> 01:30:37,291
And then we also have the other

850
01:30:37,291 --> 01:30:39,458
technology where they're much deeper. So

851
01:30:39,458 --> 01:30:41,625
they call the VR two ARs and they can go

852
01:30:41,625 --> 01:30:45,083
to I think 300 400 meters. But you need

853
01:30:45,083 --> 01:30:47,666
to find like a place where you have that

854
01:30:47,666 --> 01:30:49,166
kind of depth and then they just sit

855
01:30:49,166 --> 01:30:51,583
there. Yeah, also in a mooring. And then

856
01:30:51,583 --> 01:30:53,125
you have a kind of really quite often.

857
01:30:53,416 --> 01:30:57,208
Yeah, I mean, it depends because we we've

858
01:30:57,208 --> 01:30:59,083
tried to be quite random with our study design. So we we did it with the

859
01:30:59,666 --> 01:31:04,583
We didn't just put them where we know the

860
01:31:04,583 --> 01:31:06,916
sharks go. We kind of put them as a big

861
01:31:06,916 --> 01:31:09,291
grid just to see. So you have clearly

862
01:31:09,291 --> 01:31:11,291
some places where the sharks go more and

863
01:31:11,291 --> 01:31:12,875
other places less. And now it's quite

864
01:31:12,875 --> 01:31:14,625
interesting with this new collaboration.

865
01:31:15,375 --> 01:31:17,458
We see the sharks go really quite far out

866
01:31:17,458 --> 01:31:19,708
where we didn't think they would go.

867
01:31:19,958 --> 01:31:22,208
That's awesome. So you have some big news

868
01:31:22,208 --> 01:31:23,666
you're going to share with us and break

869
01:31:23,666 --> 01:31:25,625
news today, right? And one of your one of

870
01:31:25,625 --> 01:31:27,083
your whale sharks. Yes. And then you have a lot of other things that you can do.

871
01:31:27,833 --> 01:31:32,791
Yes. So we I mean, it was kind of I was

872
01:31:32,791 --> 01:31:34,791
always waiting for this. When is one of

873
01:31:34,791 --> 01:31:36,500
the whale sharks we've identified in

874
01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:38,875
Madagascar going to be seen elsewhere. So

875
01:31:38,875 --> 01:31:40,916
like out of this country is quite a

876
01:31:40,916 --> 01:31:44,541
massive country. And we've identified

877
01:31:44,541 --> 01:31:48,208
we're sitting on 546 identified whale

878
01:31:48,208 --> 01:31:52,291
sharks thanks to photo ID. So yeah, yeah.

879
01:31:53,208 --> 01:31:57,125
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you have other

880
01:31:57,125 --> 01:31:58,541
whale sharks that are seen as a big

881
01:31:58,541 --> 01:32:01,375
Tanzania seashell. So we I mean, there is

882
01:32:01,375 --> 01:32:03,708
this collaboration now at the global

883
01:32:03,708 --> 01:32:06,500
level with the shared, you know, photo ID

884
01:32:06,500 --> 01:32:09,125
platforms. The one we use is called wild

885
01:32:09,125 --> 01:32:12,083
book where everyone loads the data. But

886
01:32:12,083 --> 01:32:14,583
some people, yeah, they don't know how to

887
01:32:14,583 --> 01:32:16,041
use wild book. They don't have the staff.

888
01:32:16,833 --> 01:32:18,666
Anyway, so for all of these reasons, we

889
01:32:18,666 --> 01:32:20,166
because we've had that

890
01:32:20,166 --> 01:32:21,083
declined since a few years.

891
01:32:22,125 --> 01:32:25,750
I was quite keen to find there any sharks

892
01:32:25,750 --> 01:32:27,791
going to sessions because we know teams

893
01:32:27,791 --> 01:32:30,541
in Mozambique and Tanzania Tanzania load

894
01:32:30,541 --> 01:32:32,708
their data onto this database. But

895
01:32:32,708 --> 01:32:35,875
sessions doesn't because back in the day

896
01:32:35,875 --> 01:32:37,541
when I started, they had a lot of whale

897
01:32:37,541 --> 01:32:39,750
sharks. And then as we've seen more and

898
01:32:39,750 --> 01:32:41,750
more whale sharks in Madagascar, mostly

899
01:32:41,750 --> 01:32:42,083
because I was counting them.

900
01:32:42,125 --> 01:32:46,000
sessions I seen quite a decline. So I was

901
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:48,333
always curious, like, it's now that we

902
01:32:48,333 --> 01:32:49,958
seeing less, they're seeing more of them

903
01:32:49,958 --> 01:32:53,916
there. So yeah, I got in touch with Chris

904
01:32:53,916 --> 01:32:55,750
who works in sessions on the on the whale

905
01:32:55,750 --> 01:32:58,000
shark program. And because they had so

906
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:01,875
few sightings around 2015, they kind of

907
01:33:01,875 --> 01:33:03,875
stopped the monitoring. So they started

908
01:33:03,875 --> 01:33:05,375
again a few years ago. But again, they

909
01:33:05,375 --> 01:33:07,291
don't have a dedicated team. So it's very

910
01:33:07,291 --> 01:33:10,875
opportunistic. So we spoke in August and

911
01:33:10,875 --> 01:33:11,083
I shared all our protocols with you.

912
01:33:11,125 --> 01:33:14,000
And I said, Okay, like try to take

913
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:17,375
pictures of them. And so, like, yeah, we

914
01:33:17,375 --> 01:33:18,875
kind of committed with the team to, you

915
01:33:18,875 --> 01:33:21,208
know, process them for him. And so we got

916
01:33:21,208 --> 01:33:24,291
20 photo IDs in December. And surprise,

917
01:33:24,916 --> 01:33:26,708
we recognize the shark from Madagascar in

918
01:33:26,708 --> 01:33:30,583
one of them. So, wow, really cool news.

919
01:33:31,416 --> 01:33:34,458
And when you think about it, it's not so

920
01:33:34,458 --> 01:33:37,083
far for for a shark. It's 1200

921
01:33:37,083 --> 01:33:39,916
kilometers, probably. Yeah, yeah.

922
01:33:40,500 --> 01:33:42,000
Yeah, I just looked it up the straight

923
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:43,833
line distance, depending on where you're

924
01:33:43,833 --> 01:33:46,958
going from is about between 1600 1800

925
01:33:46,958 --> 01:33:48,375
kilometers. But again, it depends on

926
01:33:48,375 --> 01:33:50,291
where you're measuring from. Yeah,

927
01:33:50,291 --> 01:33:52,125
measuring from like the mid like inland

928
01:33:52,125 --> 01:33:53,708
of that. So not necessarily from the

929
01:33:53,708 --> 01:33:54,666
coast. That makes sense.

930
01:33:54,875 --> 01:33:56,083
That's crazy. That's awesome.

931
01:33:56,125 --> 01:33:58,916
It's awesome. And it's, it's really cool

932
01:33:58,916 --> 01:34:00,708
because it's a shark we've seen once. So

933
01:34:00,708 --> 01:34:02,458
we have like a logbook of all the sharks

934
01:34:02,458 --> 01:34:03,791
and they have names and we know how many

935
01:34:03,791 --> 01:34:05,416
times we've seen them. But yeah, so some

936
01:34:05,416 --> 01:34:07,875
we know we see a lot and others like like

937
01:34:07,875 --> 01:34:10,000
this guy is called Miss Raul, which is

938
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:12,041
the name of a wind in France. And we

939
01:34:12,041 --> 01:34:15,500
thought it was pretty nice moments where

940
01:34:15,500 --> 01:34:16,250
they were like star

941
01:34:16,250 --> 01:34:17,083
names and wind names anyway.

942
01:34:18,125 --> 01:34:21,458
And then we saw we saw him only once in

943
01:34:21,458 --> 01:34:25,583
2019. And then where has he been all this

944
01:34:25,583 --> 01:34:27,166
time? He could have been in Madagascar

945
01:34:27,166 --> 01:34:28,958
and we just didn't see him. We didn't

946
01:34:28,958 --> 01:34:32,208
photo ID him. Right. But now he's he's

947
01:34:32,208 --> 01:34:35,333
he's been in sessions. So, really cool.

948
01:34:36,333 --> 01:34:38,041
Wow, that's gonna be really cool. That's

949
01:34:38,041 --> 01:34:40,083
the first one you found. It doesn't mean

950
01:34:40,083 --> 01:34:42,000
that there's probably more that are

951
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:43,125
probably going forth. You

952
01:34:43,125 --> 01:34:44,833
just haven't discovered it yet.

953
01:34:45,125 --> 01:34:46,625
Yeah, well, that might that might inspire

954
01:34:46,625 --> 01:34:47,916
the people in the Seychelles to really

955
01:34:47,916 --> 01:34:51,000
get right get get motivated. Yeah, we're

956
01:34:51,000 --> 01:34:54,000
we're discussing this and we'd love to go

957
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:55,750
and you need to do more collaborations

958
01:34:55,750 --> 01:34:59,125
like sampling the praise they eat and see

959
01:34:59,125 --> 01:35:00,875
if it's similar. And I mean, there's so

960
01:35:00,875 --> 01:35:02,958
many questions. Are they using Seychelles

961
01:35:02,958 --> 01:35:04,666
more now because they're using Madagascar

962
01:35:04,666 --> 01:35:07,250
less? Is it completely unrelated? Have

963
01:35:07,250 --> 01:35:09,875
they always been? If they already always

964
01:35:09,875 --> 01:35:12,333
have been using the two? I don't know.

965
01:35:13,875 --> 01:35:16,833
Have you looked around Madagascar for any

966
01:35:16,833 --> 01:35:20,000
other well shark aggregation sites around

967
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:21,041
around the around Madagascar?

968
01:35:22,250 --> 01:35:24,125
Such a big country. I mean, we're in

969
01:35:24,125 --> 01:35:25,833
touch with quite a few, you know, NGOs

970
01:35:25,833 --> 01:35:28,791
and researchers and we we know where

971
01:35:28,791 --> 01:35:30,500
sharks swimming through that they've been

972
01:35:30,500 --> 01:35:32,750
sighted but not kind of on a regular

973
01:35:32,750 --> 01:35:34,083
basis and actually, right.

974
01:35:34,333 --> 01:35:36,416
I can't remember if we talked of this

975
01:35:36,416 --> 01:35:38,416
together, Dave, but a well shark was

976
01:35:38,416 --> 01:35:41,541
fished in in southwest Madagascar in

977
01:35:41,541 --> 01:35:43,666
August. And we know from the satellite

978
01:35:43,666 --> 01:35:45,333
tags we deployed with Simon that the

979
01:35:45,333 --> 01:35:48,125
sharks we we see in the Seabay up north

980
01:35:48,125 --> 01:35:50,875
they they, you know, they swim past that

981
01:35:50,875 --> 01:35:53,333
village. At least we had some sharks that

982
01:35:53,333 --> 01:35:57,208
did that route. So is it just a route? Is

983
01:35:57,208 --> 01:36:00,208
it a feeding aggregation? Likely, there's

984
01:36:00,208 --> 01:36:01,083
a lot more than we think. Yeah.

985
01:36:02,125 --> 01:36:06,500
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, I know a lot of

986
01:36:06,500 --> 01:36:07,916
the isle, a lot of the Metley Island

987
01:36:07,916 --> 01:36:09,583
there. I know it's a big country. I think

988
01:36:09,583 --> 01:36:10,916
we figured it's like the fourth largest

989
01:36:10,916 --> 01:36:13,000
island in the world, Andrew. I think so.

990
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:16,250
Yes. Yes. And so like there's as I can

991
01:36:16,250 --> 01:36:17,666
imagine, there's a lot of remote areas

992
01:36:17,666 --> 01:36:19,666
where people just cannot get into or just

993
01:36:19,666 --> 01:36:21,083
there's just nobody able. You're not able to really do research unless you're in a boat.

994
01:36:22,125 --> 01:36:26,666
No, which is why like, you know, using

995
01:36:26,666 --> 01:36:29,166
different approaches and techniques,

996
01:36:29,166 --> 01:36:30,458
especially with well sharks is really

997
01:36:30,458 --> 01:36:32,333
interesting. Like now with this photo ID,

998
01:36:32,333 --> 01:36:34,125
we have this awesome match. But you know,

999
01:36:34,125 --> 01:36:37,041
with the satellite tags 10 years ago now,

1000
01:36:37,041 --> 01:36:38,375
we saw that they were going all the way

1001
01:36:38,375 --> 01:36:40,875
south, which is also like thousands of

1002
01:36:40,875 --> 01:36:43,125
kilometers. So now with the acoustics, we

1003
01:36:43,125 --> 01:36:45,083
know, okay, they use this area this way

1004
01:36:45,083 --> 01:36:46,833
and this way, but we'd like to use

1005
01:36:46,833 --> 01:36:48,958
satellites again because there we see

1006
01:36:48,958 --> 01:36:49,083
them less and less. So is there like
another cool place to go?

1007
01:36:49,125 --> 01:36:54,166
Were they feeding or are they actually

1008
01:36:54,166 --> 01:36:56,333
just getting fished once they're

1009
01:36:56,333 --> 01:36:57,791
offshore? I mean, there's so many

1010
01:36:57,791 --> 01:37:02,875
explanations. Yeah. Have you considered

1011
01:37:02,875 --> 01:37:04,416
like branching out into some other

1012
01:37:04,416 --> 01:37:09,250
species like the, well, like the leopard

1013
01:37:09,250 --> 01:37:10,416
sharks there are some of the other

1014
01:37:10,416 --> 01:37:13,000
species that are kind of common. Yeah, I

1015
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:14,500
would like to. It's just always the

1016
01:37:14,500 --> 01:37:17,083
issue, finding funding, finding capacity. Yeah, it's a good idea.

1017
01:37:17,125 --> 01:37:21,666
Yeah, it's, we really try to work with

1018
01:37:21,666 --> 01:37:24,166
Malagasy. So we, we need to find a, you

1019
01:37:24,166 --> 01:37:26,208
know, project lead. And usually it starts

1020
01:37:26,208 --> 01:37:28,333
with the students have some ideas, you

1021
01:37:28,333 --> 01:37:29,791
have some shared interests, and then we

1022
01:37:29,791 --> 01:37:32,541
kind of push them and support them into

1023
01:37:32,541 --> 01:37:35,583
kind of developing that. But we, it's

1024
01:37:35,583 --> 01:37:37,250
been kind of in the on the radar to do

1025
01:37:37,250 --> 01:37:38,875
something on the mobile arrays, because

1026
01:37:38,875 --> 01:37:40,541
there are some species that are

1027
01:37:40,541 --> 01:37:42,041
critically endangered, and we see them

1028
01:37:42,041 --> 01:37:44,583
quite a lot. And would be really

1029
01:37:44,583 --> 01:37:47,083
interesting to know more. So actually, in the future, we're going to be doing a lot of research.

1030
01:37:47,125 --> 01:37:49,166
And right now at this time, we have a new

1031
01:37:49,166 --> 01:37:51,625
student that he started a week, two weeks

1032
01:37:51,625 --> 01:37:55,541
ago, specifically looking at the fishing

1033
01:37:55,541 --> 01:37:58,916
of mobile arrays in the sea bay to better

1034
01:37:58,916 --> 01:38:00,666
understand which areas they use, maybe

1035
01:38:00,666 --> 01:38:02,000
eventually tag them. But

1036
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:03,041
yeah, we're doing that now.

1037
01:38:04,416 --> 01:38:06,041
Okay, I just care. I mean, I mean, you

1038
01:38:06,041 --> 01:38:07,916
can spend a whole career just doing the

1039
01:38:07,916 --> 01:38:11,291
whale sharks. I'm sure, but just just so

1040
01:38:11,291 --> 01:38:12,833
I know when I was there, there's just so

1041
01:38:12,833 --> 01:38:14,958
many other species like that just there's

1042
01:38:14,958 --> 01:38:16,750
like, they lend themselves a lot of good

1043
01:38:16,750 --> 01:38:19,208
opportunity to do some other to do some

1044
01:38:19,208 --> 01:38:20,416
other work there and stuff.

1045
01:38:21,250 --> 01:38:23,083
And you're probably, as your organization

1046
01:38:23,083 --> 01:38:24,416
grows, you're probably more and more

1047
01:38:24,416 --> 01:38:26,791
doing all the all the bureaucratic

1048
01:38:26,791 --> 01:38:29,750
paperwork, younger people

1049
01:38:29,750 --> 01:38:31,083
be doing all the fun stuff.

1050
01:38:31,125 --> 01:38:34,083
Exactly. That's the trajectory all the

1051
01:38:34,083 --> 01:38:36,416
the reason you got into it's like doesn't

1052
01:38:36,416 --> 01:38:38,458
end up that way. You'll be busy with

1053
01:38:38,458 --> 01:38:40,458
others. Well, is your is your focus the

1054
01:38:40,458 --> 01:38:42,291
organization's focus is to find for the

1055
01:38:42,291 --> 01:38:44,083
whale sharks anyway at this point is to

1056
01:38:44,083 --> 01:38:45,875
find out, you know, where they are, where

1057
01:38:45,875 --> 01:38:47,291
they go and who, who they

1058
01:38:47,291 --> 01:38:48,083
are, like how many there are.

1059
01:38:48,125 --> 01:38:49,916
Because because there's just no there

1060
01:38:49,916 --> 01:38:51,791
wasn't information on that before. Now

1061
01:38:51,791 --> 01:38:54,041
you have this longer term data set, you

1062
01:38:54,041 --> 01:38:56,375
have almost 600 individuals that you've

1063
01:38:56,375 --> 01:38:58,500
identified. Now you're even you know,

1064
01:38:59,083 --> 01:39:00,541
you're you're you're well into the

1065
01:39:00,541 --> 01:39:02,750
networking knowing people in Seychelles,

1066
01:39:02,750 --> 01:39:04,083
obviously, Mozambique and elsewhere.

1067
01:39:04,125 --> 01:39:07,333
So you're be able to understand, you

1068
01:39:07,333 --> 01:39:09,708
know, just in in the general region of

1069
01:39:09,708 --> 01:39:11,291
this of this part of the ocean, you'll be

1070
01:39:11,291 --> 01:39:13,375
able to understand where they go.

1071
01:39:14,958 --> 01:39:16,375
Obviously, there's there's a lot more to

1072
01:39:16,375 --> 01:39:18,291
accomplish in terms that distribution and

1073
01:39:18,291 --> 01:39:20,708
you may, you know, just in a lifetime, we

1074
01:39:20,708 --> 01:39:23,166
may or may not know where all these these

1075
01:39:23,166 --> 01:39:24,083
different individuals go.

1076
01:39:24,125 --> 01:39:28,333
Are there other aspects that is a

1077
01:39:28,333 --> 01:39:30,708
priority for the organization other than

1078
01:39:30,708 --> 01:39:33,375
distribution or is distribution such an

1079
01:39:33,375 --> 01:39:35,208
important part that it takes up most of

1080
01:39:35,208 --> 01:39:36,875
your, your role now

1081
01:39:36,875 --> 01:39:38,083
and even in the future?

1082
01:39:39,958 --> 01:39:42,625
Yeah, I was just talking about this

1083
01:39:42,625 --> 01:39:44,875
today, there's so much to do, which is

1084
01:39:44,875 --> 01:39:47,000
very exciting and also a bit

1085
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:50,083
overwhelming. And for me, it's really at

1086
01:39:50,083 --> 01:39:51,958
this point, this kind of two priorities.

1087
01:39:52,166 --> 01:39:53,750
One is exactly what you said, you know,

1088
01:39:54,333 --> 01:39:56,208
where are the whale sharks that are using

1089
01:39:56,208 --> 01:39:58,583
other places? And if so, you know, why is

1090
01:39:58,583 --> 01:40:00,791
that? And that's just a super

1091
01:40:00,791 --> 01:40:02,083
interesting research question.

1092
01:40:02,125 --> 01:40:05,458
But this there's also that growing

1093
01:40:05,458 --> 01:40:07,666
tourism growing human pressure on that

1094
01:40:07,666 --> 01:40:09,708
region, which is incredibly biodiverse,

1095
01:40:09,708 --> 01:40:11,375
not just for the whale sharks. But you

1096
01:40:11,375 --> 01:40:13,291
know, we've we've been surveying now for

1097
01:40:13,291 --> 01:40:15,458
10 years. We know it is all these other

1098
01:40:15,458 --> 01:40:16,083
amazing species is the Omera whale.

1099
01:40:16,125 --> 01:40:18,708
It's the only place in the world where

1100
01:40:18,708 --> 01:40:20,958
you can see it on a regular basis to some

1101
01:40:20,958 --> 01:40:23,791
back wheels as manta rays. And it's and

1102
01:40:23,791 --> 01:40:25,708
it's being exploited for, you know, for

1103
01:40:25,708 --> 01:40:29,208
tourism and and and the forests are being

1104
01:40:29,208 --> 01:40:30,875
cut and you know, all of this is

1105
01:40:30,875 --> 01:40:33,833
impacting eventually biodiversity.

1106
01:40:34,125 --> 01:40:37,000
So for me that that's also, you know,

1107
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:39,083
super important that we continue to guide

1108
01:40:39,083 --> 01:40:41,875
this development so that there is that

1109
01:40:41,875 --> 01:40:43,916
awareness that stays with the communities

1110
01:40:43,916 --> 01:40:46,166
with the tourism so it doesn't become

1111
01:40:46,166 --> 01:40:49,291
empty in a few years. And so it's

1112
01:40:49,291 --> 01:40:51,041
difficult to juggle both. Yeah.

1113
01:40:51,666 --> 01:40:53,125
But for sure. Well, and you're well

1114
01:40:53,125 --> 01:40:54,958
positioned within the community too,

1115
01:40:55,541 --> 01:40:56,791
because you know, with them, you've been

1116
01:40:56,791 --> 01:40:58,416
working with them for 10 years, you know,

1117
01:40:58,416 --> 01:41:00,208
the operators, you've been working with

1118
01:41:00,208 --> 01:41:02,541
them, you know, how the businesses run

1119
01:41:02,541 --> 01:41:04,958
because you've been watching it, you must

1120
01:41:04,958 --> 01:41:07,250
have a, you must be in a unique position

1121
01:41:07,250 --> 01:41:09,375
to work with them to ensure that hey,

1122
01:41:09,750 --> 01:41:11,166
look, we want you guys not only to

1123
01:41:11,166 --> 01:41:12,708
thrive, but we want the

1124
01:41:12,708 --> 01:41:14,000
these whales to thrive.

1125
01:41:14,125 --> 01:41:16,666
You can't thrive without these whales or

1126
01:41:16,666 --> 01:41:18,083
sorry, whale sharks, you can't thrive

1127
01:41:18,083 --> 01:41:20,375
without these whale sharks. So how like,

1128
01:41:20,583 --> 01:41:22,500
how can we work together to do that? Do

1129
01:41:22,500 --> 01:41:25,083
they do they get that point? A lot of the

1130
01:41:25,083 --> 01:41:26,375
operas that you I'm sure the

1131
01:41:26,375 --> 01:41:27,625
ones that you work with do.

1132
01:41:28,375 --> 01:41:31,625
Yeah, it's, it's really a complicated

1133
01:41:31,625 --> 01:41:35,375
topic because everyone's there to make to

1134
01:41:35,375 --> 01:41:39,416
make a profit. And it's, you know, it's,

1135
01:41:39,625 --> 01:41:41,666
it's a very poor country. So you're kind

1136
01:41:41,666 --> 01:41:42,916
of stuck with really

1137
01:41:42,916 --> 01:41:43,083
two audiences of people.

1138
01:41:43,125 --> 01:41:46,333
struggling to eat and going out fishing

1139
01:41:46,333 --> 01:41:48,000
and putting themselves in really risky

1140
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:50,125
positions. And at the same time, a lot of

1141
01:41:50,125 --> 01:41:52,125
experts coming in and making quite a lot

1142
01:41:52,125 --> 01:41:54,583
of money and both are important and both

1143
01:41:54,583 --> 01:41:57,291
need to cohabitate. So, and then you have

1144
01:41:57,291 --> 01:42:00,916
authorities who are often, you know,

1145
01:42:01,708 --> 01:42:02,958
difficult to work with

1146
01:42:02,958 --> 01:42:03,083
or have other priorities.

1147
01:42:03,125 --> 01:42:06,458
So it's, it's really juggling all of that

1148
01:42:06,458 --> 01:42:08,041
and having the right arguments and it

1149
01:42:08,041 --> 01:42:10,125
takes a lot of time. And people change

1150
01:42:10,125 --> 01:42:11,208
like, you know, this year we had

1151
01:42:11,208 --> 01:42:13,083
political crisis, all the ministers have

1152
01:42:13,083 --> 01:42:15,916
changed again. So it's, it means you have

1153
01:42:15,916 --> 01:42:17,083
to start again and again.

1154
01:42:17,125 --> 01:42:21,125
And, and eventually, I mean, for me that

1155
01:42:21,125 --> 01:42:22,791
conversation, it should be, you know,

1156
01:42:23,416 --> 01:42:25,500
without us foreigners in, you know, it's

1157
01:42:25,500 --> 01:42:27,750
about Malagasy people managing their

1158
01:42:27,750 --> 01:42:30,083
heritage. So, so now with the, with the

1159
01:42:30,083 --> 01:42:31,666
students, they're slowly becoming, you

1160
01:42:31,666 --> 01:42:33,375
know, ambassadors and we have a really

1161
01:42:33,375 --> 01:42:35,625
cool collaborative little project with

1162
01:42:35,625 --> 01:42:37,500
other organizations working in, in the

1163
01:42:37,500 --> 01:42:40,708
sea bay on, on coral reefs and teaching

1164
01:42:40,708 --> 01:42:42,666
swimming lessons to communities and

1165
01:42:42,666 --> 01:42:44,833
together we've kind of

1166
01:42:44,833 --> 01:42:46,083
grown these, these, yeah,

1167
01:42:46,750 --> 01:42:49,833
young people into ambassadors. So we're

1168
01:42:49,833 --> 01:42:51,625
hoping now they can, you know, have these

1169
01:42:51,625 --> 01:42:54,958
conversations. And I think that's, yeah,

1170
01:42:54,958 --> 01:42:56,291
I mean, we're not, we shouldn't be the

1171
01:42:56,291 --> 01:42:58,291
ones telling, telling them how to run the

1172
01:42:58,291 --> 01:43:00,125
country. And for me, that's quite an

1173
01:43:00,125 --> 01:43:03,250
important part of that conversation, but

1174
01:43:03,250 --> 01:43:04,083
it's, it remains difficult.

1175
01:43:04,125 --> 01:43:07,125
And, and, you know, it's, it's, it's

1176
01:43:07,125 --> 01:43:09,000
making a lot of money, the Welsh like

1177
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:11,875
industry. It's filling hotels, it's

1178
01:43:11,875 --> 01:43:15,416
filling flights. So it's, you cannot stop

1179
01:43:15,416 --> 01:43:17,791
it. And even if you forbid it, people are

1180
01:43:17,791 --> 01:43:18,875
still going to do it because there's no

1181
01:43:18,875 --> 01:43:20,708
enforcement. So it's about finding that,

1182
01:43:20,708 --> 01:43:22,708
yeah, kind of balance.

1183
01:43:24,125 --> 01:43:27,083
It's, yeah, it's, it's, I've seeked a lot

1184
01:43:27,083 --> 01:43:28,791
of help on this and, and eventually,

1185
01:43:29,125 --> 01:43:30,833
yeah, I mean, no one really knows how to

1186
01:43:30,833 --> 01:43:33,250
do this. It's, it's, it's so different in

1187
01:43:33,250 --> 01:43:36,083
each context. So you have to adapt and

1188
01:43:36,083 --> 01:43:38,875
explore and test and yeah.

1189
01:43:39,625 --> 01:43:40,500
Yeah. Yeah.

1190
01:43:40,500 --> 01:43:40,958
Long term work.

1191
01:43:41,458 --> 01:43:42,416
Well, yeah.

1192
01:43:42,708 --> 01:43:43,250
I can imagine.

1193
01:43:44,125 --> 01:43:45,750
Ostal, this has been a, been a really

1194
01:43:45,750 --> 01:43:47,583
terrific conversation with you. What,

1195
01:43:47,583 --> 01:43:49,416
what advice would you have for someone

1196
01:43:49,416 --> 01:43:52,166
who's like interested in pursuing a

1197
01:43:52,166 --> 01:43:54,500
career, like maybe starting an NGO or

1198
01:43:54,500 --> 01:43:56,500
something like you've done? What advice

1199
01:43:56,500 --> 01:43:57,083
would you have for them?

1200
01:43:57,125 --> 01:44:01,458
It's a lot of work. It's a lot of

1201
01:44:01,458 --> 01:44:04,625
sacrifice. It's not for everyone. And I

1202
01:44:04,625 --> 01:44:06,875
would say, be sure this is really what

1203
01:44:06,875 --> 01:44:09,416
you want to do because of my experiences

1204
01:44:09,416 --> 01:44:10,875
in the field. I've really told me this,

1205
01:44:10,875 --> 01:44:13,083
you know, some stuff. I love doing it,

1206
01:44:13,083 --> 01:44:14,583
but I wouldn't do it again. And I think

1207
01:44:14,583 --> 01:44:16,333
it's really about finding where your

1208
01:44:16,333 --> 01:44:18,375
strengths, strengths are and what you

1209
01:44:18,375 --> 01:44:20,541
find easy, you know, this is where you

1210
01:44:20,541 --> 01:44:22,083
should go. And I find, I find a lot now, I mean, at least, you know, 10, 15 years ago when I graduated, I was like, I'm going to do this.

1211
01:44:22,125 --> 01:44:29,041
I mean, now this, this is one option,

1212
01:44:29,333 --> 01:44:31,791
which is you do a PhD and you need to be,

1213
01:44:31,791 --> 01:44:35,166
you know, modeling and, and you're going

1214
01:44:35,166 --> 01:44:37,333
to be stuck doing data analysis for a

1215
01:44:37,333 --> 01:44:39,250
while. But I mean, now this, there's so

1216
01:44:39,250 --> 01:44:41,208
many avenues, you know, in conservation

1217
01:44:41,208 --> 01:44:43,083
and in shark research, like the communication sector is huge.

1218
01:44:43,125 --> 01:44:47,875
The fundraising. We need like a lot of

1219
01:44:47,875 --> 01:44:49,916
people on board with different skills. So

1220
01:44:49,916 --> 01:44:51,750
I would really, I mean, we receive a lot

1221
01:44:51,750 --> 01:44:54,125
of requests and, and, and I turn a lot of

1222
01:44:54,125 --> 01:44:55,833
them down because like I said, we, we

1223
01:44:55,833 --> 01:44:58,041
focus on, on training in country now, but

1224
01:44:58,041 --> 01:45:00,375
I would really encourage anyone who has a

1225
01:45:00,375 --> 01:45:02,791
passion or a talent, you know, how can

1226
01:45:02,791 --> 01:45:04,541
you use that for the better good and in

1227
01:45:04,541 --> 01:45:07,000
this case for sharks because we, yeah, we

1228
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:09,083
lack still a lot of, of these careers.

1229
01:45:09,125 --> 01:45:13,916
Yeah. Sorry, final question here is where

1230
01:45:13,916 --> 01:45:16,833
do you see yourself in the next say 10,

1231
01:45:16,833 --> 01:45:18,750
20 years? Where do

1232
01:45:18,750 --> 01:45:19,666
you see yourself going?

1233
01:45:24,125 --> 01:45:27,583
It's a, yeah, it's, it's very short term

1234
01:45:27,583 --> 01:45:29,041
how we plan things with the project

1235
01:45:29,041 --> 01:45:30,041
because there's always all these

1236
01:45:30,041 --> 01:45:31,583
emergencies and it's probably not the

1237
01:45:31,583 --> 01:45:33,083
best way to run a project at the moment.

1238
01:45:33,125 --> 01:45:37,875
Yeah, each year I tell myself it's too

1239
01:45:37,875 --> 01:45:40,916
hard. I'm too tired. I want to, you know,

1240
01:45:41,291 --> 01:45:44,250
move on and it's at the same time, it's,

1241
01:45:44,250 --> 01:45:46,833
it's so exciting to keep growing the

1242
01:45:46,833 --> 01:45:49,708
project and adapt each time and pivot and

1243
01:45:49,708 --> 01:45:52,791
yeah, I love what I do. So really for me,

1244
01:45:52,791 --> 01:45:54,791
so my ambition is, is I become some I

1245
01:45:54,791 --> 01:45:56,750
guess he let you know, I can, I think I'm

1246
01:45:56,750 --> 01:45:58,875
going to be still involved in some parts

1247
01:45:58,875 --> 01:46:01,125
of it, but eventually that it has an

1248
01:46:01,125 --> 01:46:03,083
impact. I mean, we're, we've done a lot of work on this project.

1249
01:46:03,125 --> 01:46:04,666
I've done already a lot, but that it can,

1250
01:46:04,666 --> 01:46:06,208
you know, keep coming up with these

1251
01:46:06,208 --> 01:46:08,250
solutions and that eventually I can step

1252
01:46:08,250 --> 01:46:11,500
back a bit and, and find the, yeah, good,

1253
01:46:11,500 --> 01:46:14,041
talented Malagasy scientists who want to

1254
01:46:14,041 --> 01:46:15,333
continue doing this. For

1255
01:46:15,333 --> 01:46:17,083
me, that would be ideal. Yeah.

1256
01:46:17,500 --> 01:46:20,291
Yeah. That's great. Great. Well, that's

1257
01:46:20,291 --> 01:46:22,166
terrific. That's terrific. Stella really

1258
01:46:22,166 --> 01:46:23,750
enjoy having you here. We'll definitely

1259
01:46:23,750 --> 01:46:25,375
have you back, come back again to some

1260
01:46:25,375 --> 01:46:27,833
time and share some new, new, some new

1261
01:46:27,833 --> 01:46:29,416
exciting science that you've been doing

1262
01:46:29,416 --> 01:46:30,625
or new, new

1263
01:46:30,625 --> 01:46:32,375
adventures you've had going on.

1264
01:46:33,125 --> 01:46:35,000
And, but, but really thank you for coming

1265
01:46:35,000 --> 01:46:36,458
on. And I just want to thank you. I had

1266
01:46:36,458 --> 01:46:38,375
such a wonderful time getting to know you

1267
01:46:38,375 --> 01:46:40,375
when I was in Madagascar and going out

1268
01:46:40,375 --> 01:46:41,833
with you, even though we didn't see any

1269
01:46:41,833 --> 01:46:43,083
whale sharks when I was out there.

1270
01:46:43,083 --> 01:46:43,750
You need to come back.

1271
01:46:44,583 --> 01:46:46,750
I need to come back and move next time.

1272
01:46:46,750 --> 01:46:48,458
Next time you'll guarantee me I'll see

1273
01:46:48,458 --> 01:46:50,833
whale sharks. So, uh, Dave, are you O for

1274
01:46:50,833 --> 01:46:52,416
two for whale sharks? Cause you tried in

1275
01:46:52,416 --> 01:46:53,416
Costa Rica too and you

1276
01:46:53,416 --> 01:46:54,000
didn't get the whale sharks.

1277
01:46:54,125 --> 01:46:56,083
I'm about, I'm about O for 10, be honest

1278
01:46:56,083 --> 01:46:58,875
with you. I'm O for 10. It's like, you

1279
01:46:58,875 --> 01:47:00,875
don't want to, anti, anti whale shark.

1280
01:47:01,125 --> 01:47:02,875
They don't like me for some reason. I

1281
01:47:02,875 --> 01:47:04,333
don't know why they don't like me. They

1282
01:47:04,333 --> 01:47:06,833
just, they disappear. So, uh, anyway, but

1283
01:47:06,833 --> 01:47:08,416
thank, thank, thank you very much.

1284
01:47:08,416 --> 01:47:09,458
Stella. Thank you again.

1285
01:47:10,083 --> 01:47:11,666
Thank you so much. Yeah, we appreciate

1286
01:47:11,666 --> 01:47:13,166
it. Thank you, Stella, for joining us on

1287
01:47:13,166 --> 01:47:14,833
today's episode of the beyond jaws

1288
01:47:14,833 --> 01:47:17,166
podcast. It was great to find out what

1289
01:47:17,166 --> 01:47:19,666
it's like to run an organization. It's

1290
01:47:19,666 --> 01:47:20,833
not an easy thing, folks.

1291
01:47:21,125 --> 01:47:22,416
I think a lot of people are like, I'm

1292
01:47:22,416 --> 01:47:23,500
going to have my own nonprofit

1293
01:47:23,500 --> 01:47:25,083
organization. Well, when you run a

1294
01:47:25,083 --> 01:47:27,083
nonprofit organization, you don't always

1295
01:47:27,083 --> 01:47:28,875
get to do the science of the nonprofit

1296
01:47:28,875 --> 01:47:31,000
organization as much because there's a

1297
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:32,500
lot of administrative stuff going on.

1298
01:47:32,500 --> 01:47:33,708
And she talked about it in this episode

1299
01:47:33,708 --> 01:47:35,125
and I thought it was really great to

1300
01:47:35,125 --> 01:47:36,666
share that to say, Hey, you know what?

1301
01:47:36,666 --> 01:47:38,458
Like, even though we're doing this and

1302
01:47:38,458 --> 01:47:41,083
we're a small but nimble organization and

1303
01:47:41,083 --> 01:47:42,541
we, we hire a lot of

1304
01:47:42,541 --> 01:47:43,083
people that are local.

1305
01:47:43,125 --> 01:47:45,416
We're helping students understand more

1306
01:47:45,416 --> 01:47:47,541
about what's happening with whale sharks

1307
01:47:47,541 --> 01:47:49,791
so that they can eventually maybe either

1308
01:47:49,791 --> 01:47:52,041
take over or start their own or be able

1309
01:47:52,041 --> 01:47:55,416
to contribute to their own coastline and

1310
01:47:55,416 --> 01:47:56,666
the information that goes on the

1311
01:47:56,666 --> 01:47:58,666
coastline. I thought it was great. Dave,

1312
01:47:58,916 --> 01:48:00,291
what were your thoughts on the episode? I

1313
01:48:00,291 --> 01:48:03,000
was great. I thought she'd be a great

1314
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:04,666
guest to have on the show and she was.

1315
01:48:04,958 --> 01:48:06,958
Absolutely. As really just like I said,

1316
01:48:06,958 --> 01:48:08,458
she's, she's a dynamo and really gets,

1317
01:48:08,458 --> 01:48:09,875
gets, gets going. It gets on these

1318
01:48:09,875 --> 01:48:11,458
things. I think she's just, she's like a

1319
01:48:11,458 --> 01:48:12,083
lot of people you have on the show. You know, she found a lot of people that are going to be there.

1320
01:48:12,125 --> 01:48:15,250
Yeah. It's just, you know, she's from

1321
01:48:15,250 --> 01:48:17,625
Belgium, she didn't grow up like diving

1322
01:48:17,625 --> 01:48:19,375
and you know, pretty reefs and all that

1323
01:48:19,375 --> 01:48:21,625
kind of stuff. She just kind of, but she

1324
01:48:21,625 --> 01:48:23,291
went there and did some intern, you know,

1325
01:48:23,291 --> 01:48:23,916
with some of the other

1326
01:48:23,916 --> 01:48:25,333
groups, Simon Pierce and others.

1327
01:48:25,333 --> 01:48:27,750
And she is. She found her passion and it

1328
01:48:27,750 --> 01:48:30,000
really, I guess the kind of the neat

1329
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:31,875
thing about our podcast, we really bring

1330
01:48:31,875 --> 01:48:33,500
people on here just have found their

1331
01:48:33,500 --> 01:48:35,458
passion in life and they just do what

1332
01:48:35,458 --> 01:48:37,458
they need to do to pursue that.

1333
01:48:37,833 --> 01:48:39,708
And um, it's really, it's

1334
01:48:39,708 --> 01:48:40,083
really kind of rewarding.

1335
01:48:40,125 --> 01:48:42,583
rewarding I think and just really the

1336
01:48:42,583 --> 01:48:44,666
kind of having people on that because I

1337
01:48:44,666 --> 01:48:46,916
think that that synergy sort of builds

1338
01:48:46,916 --> 01:48:48,000
you get somebody on there that's excited

1339
01:48:48,083 --> 01:48:49,708
about it and hopefully you know we reach

1340
01:48:49,708 --> 01:48:51,250
some young people out there listening to

1341
01:48:51,250 --> 01:48:53,541
this podcast and they're just like yeah

1342
01:48:53,541 --> 01:48:54,916
that's what I want to do and they kind

1343
01:48:54,916 --> 01:48:56,750
of hopefully they pick up a little bit on

1344
01:48:56,750 --> 01:48:58,208
how other people like Stella and

1345
01:48:58,208 --> 01:49:00,166
others have done it and it kind of gives

1346
01:49:00,166 --> 01:49:01,750
them a bit of inspiration to pursue

1347
01:49:01,750 --> 01:49:03,583
their own their own passion. Yeah

1348
01:49:03,583 --> 01:49:05,041
absolutely I think it's I think it's

1349
01:49:05,083 --> 01:49:07,500
wonderful you know to be able to study a

1350
01:49:07,500 --> 01:49:10,833
shark like the whale shark and be able to

1351
01:49:10,833 --> 01:49:12,541
find out more information about

1352
01:49:12,541 --> 01:49:15,208
it and contribute to the information is

1353
01:49:15,208 --> 01:49:17,666
just like you said all along day for pick

1354
01:49:17,666 --> 01:49:19,750
up a species that people

1355
01:49:19,750 --> 01:49:21,500
don't know a lot about and find out as

1356
01:49:21,500 --> 01:49:24,333
much as possible on that shark and it

1357
01:49:24,333 --> 01:49:26,000
works every single time.

1358
01:49:26,750 --> 01:49:28,125
We see with the angel shark project we

1359
01:49:28,125 --> 01:49:29,625
see with whale sharks we see with lost

1360
01:49:29,625 --> 01:49:30,458
sharks like it's just

1361
01:49:30,875 --> 01:49:33,791
or a kind of terms not a kind of terms of

1362
01:49:33,791 --> 01:49:35,791
go sharks sorry the chimeras yeah I'm

1363
01:49:35,791 --> 01:49:37,500
thinking of starfish for some reason but

1364
01:49:37,625 --> 01:49:40,166
chimeras like it's just it's pretty cool

1365
01:49:40,166 --> 01:49:42,416
when people start to look into this the

1366
01:49:42,416 --> 01:49:44,000
amount of information they can pull up

1367
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:46,833
and be able to share with people all over

1368
01:49:46,833 --> 01:49:48,041
the world and they do that with this

1369
01:49:48,041 --> 01:49:48,958
podcast which is great.

1370
01:49:48,958 --> 01:49:50,208
Yeah I was going to say it was really

1371
01:49:50,208 --> 01:49:52,500
kind of cool too because she she shared

1372
01:49:52,500 --> 01:49:54,666
this new science this new science this

1373
01:49:54,666 --> 01:49:57,041
movement patterns that they have have the

1374
01:49:57,041 --> 01:49:58,500
whale shark they had their first one show

1375
01:49:58,500 --> 01:50:00,458
up out in the sey shells of all

1376
01:50:00,500 --> 01:50:03,083
places and which was on the one hand it

1377
01:50:03,083 --> 01:50:04,500
wasn't too surprising but the fact that

1378
01:50:04,500 --> 01:50:07,416
they actually got documentation now that

1379
01:50:07,416 --> 01:50:09,000
went out there and she was real excited

1380
01:50:09,000 --> 01:50:10,916
about it and actually we recorded the

1381
01:50:10,916 --> 01:50:14,208
show she has a paper coming out on it on

1382
01:50:14,208 --> 01:50:15,750
it we kind of we had we've held the

1383
01:50:15,750 --> 01:50:17,666
episode up for a couple of weeks just

1384
01:50:17,666 --> 01:50:20,416
published yeah but we we didn't want to

1385
01:50:20,416 --> 01:50:22,500
we don't want to usurper her her paper

1386
01:50:22,500 --> 01:50:24,625
coming out and but that was pretty

1387
01:50:24,625 --> 01:50:26,666
exciting I know when when she had it she

1388
01:50:26,666 --> 01:50:28,250
she was still in Madagascar a couple

1389
01:50:28,250 --> 01:50:30,125
months ago and she sent me a message

1390
01:50:30,250 --> 01:50:32,666
about this about this amazing find she

1391
01:50:32,666 --> 01:50:35,000
had she was so excited about it and she's

1392
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:36,375
like okay now don't tell anybody want to

1393
01:50:36,375 --> 01:50:38,500
get this application out really quickly

1394
01:50:38,500 --> 01:50:40,791
so that was so exciting exciting for me

1395
01:50:40,791 --> 01:50:42,250
because I kind of I knew a little bit was

1396
01:50:42,250 --> 01:50:43,875
going on there I thought oh great we'll

1397
01:50:43,875 --> 01:50:45,333
have to have her on the podcast there to

1398
01:50:45,333 --> 01:50:47,000
talk about and share this amazing

1399
01:50:47,000 --> 01:50:49,416
discovery for her so that was good that

1400
01:50:49,416 --> 01:50:50,916
was it was great we're able to do that

1401
01:50:50,916 --> 01:50:53,083
accommodate people like her come on the

1402
01:50:53,083 --> 01:50:54,541
show and and be able to share that

1403
01:50:54,541 --> 01:50:56,708
exciting science and hopefully we'll be

1404
01:50:56,708 --> 01:50:57,666
doing that again with other

1405
01:50:57,666 --> 01:50:59,208
guests later later this year.

1406
01:50:59,250 --> 01:51:01,041
I can't wait it's going to be a it's

1407
01:51:01,041 --> 01:51:02,833
going to be a lot of fun so that's the

1408
01:51:02,833 --> 01:51:04,750
episode if you guys have any questions or

1409
01:51:04,750 --> 01:51:06,333
comments let us know if you're watching

1410
01:51:06,333 --> 01:51:08,375
this on YouTube in the comments below or

1411
01:51:08,375 --> 01:51:11,875
if you're watching this on on on like if

1412
01:51:11,875 --> 01:51:12,791
you're listening to this on your favorite

1413
01:51:12,791 --> 01:51:15,083
podcast app you can reach out to Dave or

1414
01:51:15,083 --> 01:51:17,791
I beyond jaws pod can get both of us if

1415
01:51:17,791 --> 01:51:19,375
you want to reach out today specifically

1416
01:51:19,375 --> 01:51:22,458
at lost shark guy on Instagram as well as

1417
01:51:22,458 --> 01:51:24,291
any other social platform that you can

1418
01:51:24,291 --> 01:51:27,041
find X I think Facebook

1419
01:51:27,041 --> 01:51:28,208
it's at last shark guy.

1420
01:51:28,250 --> 01:51:30,250
Yeah, the usual places the usual places.

1421
01:51:30,250 --> 01:51:32,750
Yeah, so beyond just pod on Instagram for

1422
01:51:32,750 --> 01:51:35,083
us to get both of us and you know, we

1423
01:51:35,083 --> 01:51:36,500
just want to thank you so much for

1424
01:51:36,500 --> 01:51:39,000
joining us and listening to this episode

1425
01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:41,500
always love to hear your thoughts and we

1426
01:51:41,500 --> 01:51:42,708
can't wait to hear your

1427
01:51:42,708 --> 01:51:43,708
thoughts in the future.

1428
01:51:43,708 --> 01:51:45,166
So thank you so much for joining us on

1429
01:51:45,166 --> 01:51:47,750
today's episode of the Beyond Jaws

1430
01:51:47,750 --> 01:51:50,333
podcast from Dave and I your hosts. We

1431
01:51:50,333 --> 01:51:51,291
thank you so much. Have a

1432
01:51:51,291 --> 01:51:52,708
great day and happy conservation.