The Communications Mistake That Costs Ocean Projects Years

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let me ask you this. If you are running an
ocean project,

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it doesn't matter if you're a nonprofit,

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for profit, an academic, a professor,

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or anything like that, if you're running
an ocean project and you're asking
yourself

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six months down the road, who's my target
audience?

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Why am I doing this? How is it going to
affect them?

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You might be too late. And on today's
episode of the Ocean Leaders Podcast,

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we're going to be talking about why
communications

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And a communication strategy should be
done at the beginning of your project

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and not six months to a year down the
road.

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We're gonna talk about that on today's
episode of the Ocean Leader Podcast,

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your podcast to find out everything you
need to know on how to run an ocean
project.

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My name is Andrew Lou I'm the host of this
podcast for today.

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I'm the Ocean Communications Manager for
Pisces Oceans.

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Which this is the Pisces Podcast,

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the Ocean Leader Podcast. we talk all
different things from project management

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to project strategy to ocean
communications and communications
strategies

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for your ocean project to have a positive
impact on the ocean and make sure your

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project succeeds. I can't wait to get into
this conversation.

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We have Natalie Gilson, who is the co-CEO
of Pisces Oceans,

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and she is also a communication expert on.

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just projects and how projects should be
communicating.

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I have we have a great conversation here
about two things.

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We're going to be talking about how
communications can help you think through

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a project from multiple different angles
and how it can help build relationship
with

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your target audience once you found them
from the beginning of your project.

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So it's not too late. When you release
your project and you say,

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hey, by the way, we have this to sell you
should check us out.

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You should buy it right away because
that's what we need to do.

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We have a great analogy for that that now
that Natalie presents.

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And I think you'll be interested in
hearing like that makes sense.

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Because if I just pop a product right in
front of you and say buy this right now,

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you have no idea where it comes from,

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what it's going to solve, all that kind of
stuff.

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So we're going to talk all about that on
today's podcast.

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So here is my conversation with Natalie
Gilson on why communication should

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be done at the beginning of your project.

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Enjoy, and I'll talk to you after.

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All right, Natalie, are you ready to talk
about ocean communications

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for projects and and leaders who may or
may not use communications properly?

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yeah, I'm always ready to talk about that.

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Awesome. I

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can't wait to get into this type of
subject.

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But before we get into it, since this
podcast is new,

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the Ocean Leaders podcast is new,

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Natalie, why don't you just remind people
of who you are and what to do?

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Sure, so I'm Natalie Gilson. I'm one of
two CEOs of Pisces Oceans.

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~ And the quick and simple way to describe
what I do is ocean storytelling,

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but I do that through the perspective of
helping ocean projects

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and ocean businesses and ocean leaders
really figure out how to talk about their

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work in a way that has meaningful impact
for the ocean.

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Love it. I love it. Now, Natalie,

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you you and I are our our friendship and
and we became colleagues

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and friends you know, probably about going
on five years now.

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You know, when you first contacted me
saying,

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Hey, you know, let's I want to get into
oceans.

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I I saw your your podcast on how to
protect the ocean podcast.

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Now we're working full time together on
communications.

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I'm learning from you, you're learning
from me.

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We get to go ~ back and forth on different
strategies and and things like that.

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We've come from very different

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backgrounds, you coming from a marketing
background first,

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and then me coming from a science
background first,

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coming into communications together and
being able to work together,

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which I think gives us like a heads up on
a lot of people and a lot

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of the companies that are that are putting
out communications because

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we have both sides. ~ and it kind of gives
like a rounded front.

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And today we're going to be talking about
projects like ocean projects that

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are are starting, whether it's a nonprofit

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Whether it's a for profit, whether it's
it's an academic network

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or academic project, and the project like
the focus on the project

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is getting it going. But the communication
side of it doesn't always

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get going at the same time the project is.

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That means the communications to the
target audience.

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So not just the general public,

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but to the target audience. Oftentimes,

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now you can probably argue that the target
audience isn't even known until

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the project is well underway. And then
people are like,

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shoot, we haven't done

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communication. So I would love to hear
your perspective.

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Like is is this something that you see a
lot?

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Yeah, this is probably one of the most
common things that I've seen in in well

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not only working in communications in
Oceans,

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but in my previous time doing marketing
and communications outside of Oceans,

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is that so so often we get so focused or
projects

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get so focused on the actual work that
they're doing,

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the question they want to answer,

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the business they want to build,

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the problem they want to solve,

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that we never even stop and say,

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like, wait, why are we solving this
problem?

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Who are we solving it for? And how

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How are we going to meaningfully make a
difference for the people we're solving
this

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problem for? And it sounds really like
simple when you say it like that,

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but we get so caught in our own ideas,

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I think, that it gets so exciting to just
be like,

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okay, we're going, I see what I want to
achieve.

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and you get so in the weeds of that
day-to-day that the communication of it,

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or even you know.

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That consideration of who is this for
because that's very much

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a communications question, just kind

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Hmm.

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of gets put on the back burner until
later,

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right? Maybe you're like, ~ you know,

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I don't have anything to communicate about
right now,

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or

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For sure.

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we don't have money to communicate right
now,

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or I'm wearing 800.

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already I don't have time to also
communicate like there's a myriad of
reasons ~

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Yeah.

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but it is far more common to not even
think about communications until quite

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far down the path than it is to think
about it right at the start.

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Mm-hmm. Yeah, like

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from from my experience, ~ especially
coming from that science background.

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So a lot of it's like academic,

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and sometimes like the nonprofit side,

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what I see is is the focus isn't with like
the communication side is more

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on the can I publish this article in a
science journal?

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Right. And so once I publish, that's the
that's the communication.

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So in a lot of grants, ~ you've seen this
too,

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where you'll get like an outreach of

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part like line item. And so, you know,

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people will put in that money,

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they get that money for communication,

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but the communication is let's put out a
couple of social media posts of hey,

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I just published a new paper. Check it
out.

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But let's be honest, not a lot of people,

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one can't access it, you know,

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normally because if it's a scientific
journal.

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~ and the other is is nobody gets to
really understand what it is.

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And that target audience that may not be
scientific,

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that might help that target audience.

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is is just unaware of of what's happening
because behind a a publication wall.

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And and then the the it doesn't like it
doesn't get applied in

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the right context other than that
publisher,

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like this the scientist, kind of gets
notoriety for being cited a lot

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and and that's what they that's what they
measure.

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I feel like there's just this and it could
be like the incentive of it.

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Like the incentive is to publish in in
academia for for the most part from

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a career perspective. But the

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application of the problem they're trying
to solve or the trend that they're

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identifying is more of a conservation
nature focus or or or like

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a project focus or something that could
lead towards something better

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for in this case the the ocean.

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~ and so when you when you don't have
that,

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it's not even it's not even in their mind
of like who is this actually for?

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Who is this project for?

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And we and we've seen it with with you
know the people from Transformation
Climate

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Change TCA. They really focus on working
with the communities where they're taking

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in the the the sampling to say,

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hey, what do you need? Like what is a
priority for you?

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So we're starting to see that turnover,

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but from my perspective, we don't really
see communication even being involved

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to any kind of target audience outside of
the scientific community,

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which is can be frustrating at times,

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right?

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Right.

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And I mean it's it's okay if your goal is
just to share with other academics,

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right? Like you go

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Right.

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to a, you know, shark conference and
you're presenting about sharks

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and you're presenting all the data because
that's what everybody else wants to hear.

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Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

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Awesome, you're doing a great job.

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~

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it's more when you kind of go,

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I need to talk beyond my circle,

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beyond the circle

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Mm-hmm.

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of other business owners or beyond the
other academics,

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right? Where it starts to trip people up.

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especially when it's not planned ahead of
time because then you're kind

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of untangling a bunch of stuff to get to
what you actually want to say.

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But

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Mm-hmm.

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you know, it's it always comes back
something and we talk about all the time,

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Andrew, is like, who is this actually for
and why does it matter,

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right? Like I you know, we're not gonna
sit here and change how research is done,

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but the thing you mentioned about TCA and,

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you know, big shout out to the the
approach that they're taking to science

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Yeah.

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and that is like community led

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research like what are the questions that
matter to the communities around

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you know marine carbon dioxide and all
that kind of stuff and using research

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to answer questions. That's putting
communications first because you're
already

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understanding, you know, how that work
that you're doing as an academic

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is gonna ~ be perceived by the community
and what questions they're gonna be
asking.

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Right. So you go

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Mm-hmm.

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into your research with that question in
mind.

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And I think that's a big

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Checkmark in the favor of thinking about
communications ahead of time is like,

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you know, then you can actually make your
work,

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whether that is research or business or
whatever,

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more meaningful when you actually know who
you're trying to talk to,

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what their problems are and how

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Yeah.

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your solution is gonna help them.

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Yeah, no, absolutely. I and and I guess
the question that I have for

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you is like when you have a project like
this,

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whether it's academic focused or or
non-academic focused,

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what does a project without that early
communications strategy actually look like

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six months in? Right? Like if you don't
start or you don't think about it,

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how does that change the way or can it
change the way projects done?

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Like six months in you realize,

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~ I haven't done any kind of
communications.

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Can that change the way the project's
going?

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Cause of the questions as you mentioned
that are asked previously as

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you go through that strategy to say who's
this for,

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why do they care? That kind of stuff.

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Yeah, I mean I think if you I think for
first it's important to kind

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of say that like communications is very
often seen as,

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you know, we're communicating our results
or we're communicating

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our product or we're communicating our
idea,

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right? So it's very much seen as a later
stage kind of thing because

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why would you why are you investing in
communicating before you have

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a product to sell or a technology or
whatever?

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But that I think is is a big kind of

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Area that can trip you up because
communications is what we were just
talking about.

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Like it is who are you talking to and why?

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Why are you doing the work that you're
doing?

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What's the point in creating a product if
nobody needs it because

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you didn't spend the time to understand
what they need?

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At the

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Mm-hmm.

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same time, communications is happening all
the time in your team.

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Right in your networking between yourself
and your funder,

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between yourself and you know,

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your grant applications, right?

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And so if if you don't think about
communications early on,

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00:11:53,478 --> 00:11:58,180
six months into your project, you start to
get like everybody's talking about

233
00:11:58,180 --> 00:12:00,671
the project differently. Nobody
understands what

234
00:11:59,771 --> 00:12:00,771
Mm-hmm.

235
00:12:00,671 --> 00:12:03,732
you're actually doing. The missions may be
not clear,

236
00:12:03,732 --> 00:12:04,732
like

237
00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:04,900
Yeah.

238
00:12:04,523 --> 00:12:08,504
it can cause company culture issues from
the research project side,

239
00:12:08,504 --> 00:12:10,335
it's sort of just like, okay, everybody's.

240
00:12:10,385 --> 00:12:14,199
heads down you know maybe you can comment
more on on this piece but like

241
00:12:14,199 --> 00:12:16,992
you know your heads down you're dealing
with your question but it's sort

242
00:12:16,992 --> 00:12:23,229
of like you can almost lose the why and it
just becomes like data more data but

243
00:12:19,963 --> 00:12:23,215
Yeah. ~ god, yeah. Yeah.

244
00:12:23,229 --> 00:12:25,021
why I don't know because you know

245
00:12:25,457 --> 00:12:27,248
For sure. Well, you know, I and you could

246
00:12:27,248 --> 00:12:28,548
talk to any grad student, you know,

247
00:12:28,548 --> 00:12:30,631
as they do a grad project, they do their
project,

248
00:12:30,631 --> 00:12:33,262
but then they're pulled into all these
other projects 'cause it's fun

249
00:12:33,262 --> 00:12:36,885
and it's and it's it's easy to to go in
and look at somebody else and then

250
00:12:36,885 --> 00:12:39,156
you lose focus on your own. But even
within your own project,

251
00:12:39,156 --> 00:12:41,617
if you don't know what that communication
is,

252
00:12:41,617 --> 00:12:44,420
like what you want, like you you know what
you wanna ask.

253
00:12:44,420 --> 00:12:46,724
That's I mean, that's one thing about the
scientific process.

254
00:12:46,724 --> 00:12:49,844
Like you know what you wanna ask and you
know what question you're trying

255
00:12:49,844 --> 00:12:52,705
to disprove, right, from a hypothesis
standpoint.

256
00:12:52,705 --> 00:12:54,667
But when you get your results

257
00:12:55,255 --> 00:13:00,587
Of that, then all of a sudden it kind of
opens up to different ways

258
00:13:00,587 --> 00:13:02,417
of you can approach, you know,

259
00:13:02,417 --> 00:13:04,818
the the study. And then you start to go
back,

260
00:13:04,818 --> 00:13:08,019
you're like, well, maybe I should change
my original hypothesis of you know,

261
00:13:08,019 --> 00:13:09,289
based on the results that are coming in,

262
00:13:09,289 --> 00:13:11,039
because I could go every which way,

263
00:13:11,039 --> 00:13:12,710
which sometimes happens, but for the most
part,

264
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:14,791
you just want to stick to what you're
originally thought,

265
00:13:14,791 --> 00:13:16,921
like what you were originally trying to
prove.

266
00:13:16,921 --> 00:13:20,588
And I think the same thing goes when you
with with any kind of project.

267
00:13:20,588 --> 00:13:22,403
There's so many things that build up.

268
00:13:22,403 --> 00:13:23,483
And if you don't have

269
00:13:24,335 --> 00:13:27,598
those initial questions of like why this
matters and who it matters to,

270
00:13:27,598 --> 00:13:32,672
right? It it starts it starts to distort
what you're doing and you start

271
00:13:32,672 --> 00:13:35,189
to get into this trap of, well,

272
00:13:35,189 --> 00:13:37,906
maybe I should go this way. Maybe I could
go this way.

273
00:13:37,906 --> 00:13:40,188
Maybe instead of going back to the
original,

274
00:13:40,188 --> 00:13:43,711
you know, look at what the business
project,

275
00:13:43,711 --> 00:13:48,315
whatever that might be, is for and what
you how you're trying to in this case
impact

276
00:13:48,315 --> 00:13:51,778
the ocean, you want to kind of stick with
that one thing.

277
00:13:51,778 --> 00:13:52,778
~

278
00:13:52,814 --> 00:13:55,876
Or at least ask going back to like what's
our original communication?

279
00:13:55,876 --> 00:13:58,208
Like what did we say to the funder that we
were gonna do?

280
00:13:58,208 --> 00:14:01,050
What did we say or to the investor that we
were gonna do?

281
00:14:01,050 --> 00:14:04,152
What did we say, like what did we promise
some of our early customers?

282
00:14:04,152 --> 00:14:06,014
Like, are we going to do this?

283
00:14:06,014 --> 00:14:09,596
And how do we communicate to them and have
we been communicating to them?

284
00:14:09,596 --> 00:14:12,809
All this kind of stuff that that is
enraped.

285
00:14:12,809 --> 00:14:14,150
So if you go back to that question,

286
00:14:14,150 --> 00:14:18,303
it kind of brings you home. It grounds you
to the what you're originally doing,

287
00:14:18,303 --> 00:14:19,303
right?

288
00:14:19,503 --> 00:14:22,130
Yeah, yeah, and you know, not to say

289
00:14:23,111 --> 00:14:27,093
'Cause I can see I can I could just hear
some people listening to this going,

290
00:14:27,093 --> 00:14:30,212
Well, but what if things change as you go
along?

291
00:14:30,212 --> 00:14:33,826
Like you can't decide your communications
right at the beginning and have

292
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:34,328
Yeah. Yeah.

293
00:14:33,826 --> 00:14:34,826
it apply all

294
00:14:34,446 --> 00:14:36,377
the way through because life happens,

295
00:14:36,377 --> 00:14:40,859
things change. And like that's absolutely
totally true,

296
00:14:40,859 --> 00:14:44,741
and not I think at all what we're trying
to say here is that like there's
absolutely

297
00:14:44,741 --> 00:14:46,792
no point in planning, you know,

298
00:14:46,792 --> 00:14:51,624
what your outreach programming for K to
twelve is going to be before you've done

299
00:14:51,624 --> 00:14:53,065
the research that will inform

300
00:14:53,205 --> 00:14:55,206
That particular communication.

301
00:14:55,206 --> 00:15:01,257
However, knowing that your intended output
is an education program

302
00:15:01,257 --> 00:15:04,908
for K-12 is really important,

303
00:15:04,908 --> 00:15:07,309
right? Because then exactly as you said,

304
00:15:07,309 --> 00:15:08,809
as you go along, you kind of go,

305
00:15:08,809 --> 00:15:13,270
yeah, you know, when you get shiny object
syndrome and a new idea appears over here,

306
00:15:13,270 --> 00:15:15,991
wait, does that fit into what I said I was
gonna do?

307
00:15:18,065 --> 00:15:22,437
And that's why like communications at the
beginning is so much about strategy,

308
00:15:22,437 --> 00:15:23,437
right?

309
00:15:22,567 --> 00:15:23,567
Mm-hmm.

310
00:15:23,157 --> 00:15:25,178
We think of communications as tactics.

311
00:15:25,178 --> 00:15:27,409
We think of it as a social media post,

312
00:15:27,409 --> 00:15:30,250
an article, a podcast. Yeah, exactly.

313
00:15:27,887 --> 00:15:29,998
Like a luxury almost. Yeah.

314
00:15:30,250 --> 00:15:33,441
Like, yeah, we'll get there. It'll be a
paid ad when I get there.

315
00:15:33,441 --> 00:15:38,043
But that's just tactics. The very first
half of communications is the strategy.

316
00:15:38,043 --> 00:15:39,184
And all that

317
00:15:38,631 --> 00:15:39,631
Mm-hmm.

318
00:15:39,184 --> 00:15:44,026
really is at the beginning. Like if you
had to simplify it down to like two,

319
00:15:44,026 --> 00:15:45,827
three of the most important questions,

320
00:15:45,827 --> 00:15:46,827
is like

321
00:15:47,088 --> 00:15:50,070
What are you doing? Why are you doing it?

322
00:15:50,070 --> 00:15:53,231
And who are you doing it for? And at very
most,

323
00:15:53,231 --> 00:15:56,593
what what do you want the world to look
like after you've done it?

324
00:15:56,593 --> 00:16:01,826
Right? So four questions at most that kind
of form the bulk of communication

325
00:16:01,116 --> 00:16:02,116
Yeah.

326
00:16:01,826 --> 00:16:06,719
strategy that I think if every project sat
down and really thought about those four

327
00:16:06,719 --> 00:16:09,660
questions, you know, they'd be a lot
further ahead.

328
00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:11,041
Because then when it comes time to
tactics,

329
00:16:11,041 --> 00:16:14,143
you're like, okay, well, no, I don't need
to post.

330
00:16:15,121 --> 00:16:19,104
five ads on or I don't need to be on five
social media channels because actually

331
00:16:19,104 --> 00:16:21,756
who I'm talking to is K to twelve.

332
00:16:21,756 --> 00:16:24,209
So I only need this channel. Right?

333
00:16:22,213 --> 00:16:24,441
Yeah. Yeah.

334
00:16:24,209 --> 00:16:25,209
So

335
00:16:24,529 --> 00:16:28,822
that strategic thinking early on can
really help your tactics later on,

336
00:16:28,822 --> 00:16:33,346
but also kind of give you that guiding
light for your project like you were
saying.

337
00:16:33,049 --> 00:16:34,270
Ye yeah, and

338
00:16:34,270 --> 00:16:38,732
and I a question I a follow up question to
that is when you start asking those

339
00:16:38,732 --> 00:16:42,705
questions at the beginning of the project
from a communication standpoint,

340
00:16:42,705 --> 00:16:49,478
you probably like do you tend to go
through the different tangents that

341
00:16:49,478 --> 00:16:52,850
you could that you t you would go through
six months or a year down the road

342
00:16:52,850 --> 00:16:54,811
if you didn't approach communications?

343
00:16:54,811 --> 00:16:59,444
And that could that change arguably could
happen at the beginning,

344
00:16:59,444 --> 00:17:00,785
which is less costly.

345
00:17:01,401 --> 00:17:05,773
and l and and more effective than it would
like six months to a year down

346
00:17:05,773 --> 00:17:07,714
the road and then you'd have to change
everything you've done.

347
00:17:07,714 --> 00:17:09,835
You could lose a lot of money because of
all the work you've done.

348
00:17:09,835 --> 00:17:11,416
Now you have to pivot and you have to
change.

349
00:17:11,416 --> 00:17:13,067
Here you're asking all those questions.

350
00:17:13,067 --> 00:17:16,348
You can already go through I'm thinking of
like a wireframe type thing.

351
00:17:16,348 --> 00:17:20,180
You can already go through the different
possibilities because you've already asked

352
00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:22,601
those questions. Who your target mod
audience is,

353
00:17:22,601 --> 00:17:25,292
why do they care about this this product
or service?

354
00:17:25,292 --> 00:17:26,292
Like why are they

355
00:17:26,619 --> 00:17:29,063
You know, what do they well, how does this
affect the ocean and what

356
00:17:29,063 --> 00:17:31,307
are those impacts and and who does it
benefit?

357
00:17:31,307 --> 00:17:33,471
All those types of things. Right off the
bat,

358
00:17:33,471 --> 00:17:37,037
that's where you the brainstorm comes in
and all the tangents go around,

359
00:17:37,037 --> 00:17:40,453
then you focus in on one or two of those
of those tangents,

360
00:17:40,453 --> 00:17:41,453
right?

361
00:17:41,296 --> 00:17:45,198
Yeah, absolutely. That's a good good value
in doing that brainstorm early

362
00:17:45,198 --> 00:17:46,818
on because too you can also like,

363
00:17:46,818 --> 00:17:50,000
you know, do that kind of thinking where
you say,

364
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,941
Okay, let's put on our our hat and imagine
six months down the road,

365
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:54,029
Mm-hmm.

366
00:17:53,941 --> 00:17:58,173
like what if this happened in our project
and we realized this target audience

367
00:17:58,173 --> 00:17:59,404
is not right for us anymore. Like,

368
00:17:59,404 --> 00:18:01,065
what are we gonna do? Right. But

369
00:18:00,646 --> 00:18:01,646
Mm-hmm.

370
00:18:01,065 --> 00:18:06,837
if you don't sit down and kind of plan
your ideal and talk through those
scenarios

371
00:18:06,837 --> 00:18:10,409
at the beginning, then you know what
happens is you know,

372
00:18:10,409 --> 00:18:11,409
it's six months up.

373
00:18:11,209 --> 00:18:14,371
And often we're working with ocean
projects years into things,

374
00:18:14,371 --> 00:18:15,371
right?

375
00:18:14,492 --> 00:18:15,492
Yeah.

376
00:18:15,032 --> 00:18:17,553
That have no communication strategy in
place.

377
00:18:17,553 --> 00:18:20,795
And so then the problem becomes it's
you're untangling,

378
00:18:20,795 --> 00:18:24,458
you know, everything that's happened since
the project started,

379
00:18:24,458 --> 00:18:27,679
trying to like dig through these layers
of,

380
00:18:27,679 --> 00:18:33,544
you know, years to find out what was that
core vision at the beginning anyway,

381
00:18:33,544 --> 00:18:34,544
and

382
00:18:33,829 --> 00:18:34,829
Mm-hmm.

383
00:18:34,314 --> 00:18:37,026
then rebuild it and restructure
everything,

384
00:18:37,026 --> 00:18:40,729
right? So it's just like the resources
that go into that are immense.

385
00:18:41,129 --> 00:18:44,960
~ and you're often like if you've got
teams of people,

386
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,590
you're you're reteaching people,

387
00:18:46,590 --> 00:18:49,851
you're retraining people, you're
rethinking internal strategy

388
00:18:49,851 --> 00:18:51,991
or internal communication strategies,

389
00:18:51,991 --> 00:18:57,272
external ones. Like it just it's it I'll
just say it's way easier

390
00:18:57,429 --> 00:19:01,033
to have a brainstorm at the beginning,

391
00:18:59,663 --> 00:19:02,382
Yeah. absolutely.

392
00:19:01,033 --> 00:19:02,434
right? And to kind of say,

393
00:19:02,434 --> 00:19:04,189
like, this is what we think we want to do,

394
00:19:04,189 --> 00:19:08,415
knowing that it may change. Like that a
good good communications is never

395
00:19:09,273 --> 00:19:13,486
a step-by-step checklist roadmap because
it doesn't make sense,

396
00:19:13,486 --> 00:19:16,468
right? It's more your guardrails for

397
00:19:16,027 --> 00:19:17,027
Mm-hmm.

398
00:19:16,689 --> 00:19:19,200
what you're doing overall. Your tactics
are a step-by-step,

399
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,003
but your communications plan overall needs
to be like,

400
00:19:23,003 --> 00:19:28,117
okay, we we're headed towards this light
for this reason with these people in mind.

401
00:19:28,117 --> 00:19:29,620
We're gonna pivot along the way.

402
00:19:29,620 --> 00:19:31,660
We're gonna do a million things we didn't
expect.

403
00:19:30,245 --> 00:19:36,374
Yeah. Yeah. It's a windy if you go back to
your guardrails analogy,

404
00:19:31,660 --> 00:19:35,062
~ but if you don't have yeah

405
00:19:36,374 --> 00:19:38,707
it's a windy road, so you might go around,

406
00:19:38,707 --> 00:19:41,111
but the guardrails are make sure you don't
go off the road,

407
00:19:41,111 --> 00:19:42,613
right? And off the cliff, right?

408
00:19:41,371 --> 00:19:43,653
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Cause it's ~

409
00:19:42,613 --> 00:19:43,735
And you stay stay in that.

410
00:19:44,273 --> 00:19:47,895
exactly, 'cause it's a lot of work and a
lot of money to pull your car

411
00:19:47,895 --> 00:19:49,436
up off the side of the mountain.

412
00:19:49,436 --> 00:19:53,920
Right? Yes.

413
00:19:50,490 --> 00:19:53,532
We got that analogy down pat. I like that.

414
00:19:53,532 --> 00:19:56,827
I like that. Well,

415
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,221
Yes. Exactly.

416
00:19:56,827 --> 00:19:59,396
and and just to kind of go over so so
thinking

417
00:19:59,396 --> 00:20:01,367
through your project at the beginning,

418
00:20:01,367 --> 00:20:06,020
obviously it's a strat it's such a a s a
strategic aspect of the project,

419
00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:09,913
but thinking through how you're gonna
communicate with the different
stakeholders,

420
00:20:09,913 --> 00:20:12,685
whether it's ~ even starting from the the
funder,

421
00:20:12,685 --> 00:20:13,726
investor.

422
00:20:14,626 --> 00:20:16,698
looking at the the the target audience,

423
00:20:16,698 --> 00:20:19,530
identifying that target, f getting
feedback from them,

424
00:20:19,530 --> 00:20:23,263
~ looking at the the ocean impact and the
stakeholders that are around there

425
00:20:23,263 --> 00:20:26,576
and any rights holders that are around
there to see how it impacts them

426
00:20:26,576 --> 00:20:27,997
and and getting their feedback.

427
00:20:27,997 --> 00:20:32,461
That all kind of narrows your focus as you
go through the project

428
00:20:32,661 --> 00:20:37,795
and prevents any kind of mishaps or or
pivots that you have to

429
00:20:37,795 --> 00:20:42,129
do later because you've already asked
those questions and you can move ahead

430
00:20:42,729 --> 00:20:43,800
a lot stronger.

431
00:20:44,778 --> 00:20:48,710
maybe a lot faster or or at the same pace
that you originally planned instead

432
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:53,042
of having to continually just kind of go
down off the rails and and

433
00:20:53,482 --> 00:20:56,483
and off the cliff. So so that's that's
great.

434
00:20:56,483 --> 00:21:01,415
The other aspect of communications is
building that trust

435
00:21:01,415 --> 00:21:08,308
and building the relationship with again
funder investor target

436
00:21:08,308 --> 00:21:13,710
audience that kind of thing. And I feel
like being in the age of social media

437
00:21:14,714 --> 00:21:19,297
Where transparency is such a huge part of
our world right now.

438
00:21:19,297 --> 00:21:22,689
And there are still a lot of companies
outside Ocean Impact,

439
00:21:22,689 --> 00:21:24,039
sometimes inside Ocean Impact,

440
00:21:24,039 --> 00:21:29,402
that are not transparent at all,

441
00:21:29,402 --> 00:21:33,805
where it kind of it it it kind of bites
them in the butt near the at

442
00:21:33,805 --> 00:21:37,620
the end if they're if they're kind of do
something differently than what people
have

443
00:21:37,620 --> 00:21:40,369
expected or what they're saying and if
people find out and stuff like that.

444
00:21:40,369 --> 00:21:42,550
Whereas the I've watched

445
00:21:42,949 --> 00:21:47,253
you know, companies start from like an
individual ~ that wants to do

446
00:21:47,253 --> 00:21:49,965
an ocean impact and it you know,

447
00:21:49,965 --> 00:21:55,309
watching them create the company and
communicate that journey all

448
00:21:55,309 --> 00:21:58,992
the way through builds that relationship
of trust,

449
00:21:58,992 --> 00:22:00,504
but also builds that loyalty, be like,

450
00:22:00,504 --> 00:22:02,575
I want to see this person succeed.

451
00:22:02,575 --> 00:22:06,869
How can these projects,

452
00:22:06,869 --> 00:22:09,491
because not everybody can show everything
that goes through,

453
00:22:09,491 --> 00:22:11,673
how can these projects really

454
00:22:11,889 --> 00:22:17,533
build relationships through either comm
strategy or communications from

455
00:22:17,533 --> 00:22:18,533
the beginning.

456
00:22:19,771 --> 00:22:23,434
Yeah, it's a great question. And I've got
another good analogy to add

457
00:22:23,434 --> 00:22:25,987
to our our conversation.

458
00:22:24,910 --> 00:22:25,910
Love it.

459
00:22:25,987 --> 00:22:27,298
But, you know

460
00:22:28,783 --> 00:22:34,745
I think of communications is like we do we
we do communications because

461
00:22:34,745 --> 00:22:37,265
we generally want a result, right?

462
00:22:37,265 --> 00:22:38,265
So often when

463
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:38,680
Right.

464
00:22:38,025 --> 00:22:40,536
we're saying, okay, we're gonna talk about
the work we're doing,

465
00:22:40,536 --> 00:22:42,357
it's because we wanna get funded,

466
00:22:42,357 --> 00:22:45,587
we want donations, we want somebody to buy
our product,

467
00:22:45,587 --> 00:22:47,403
right? Like it's very ~

468
00:22:46,747 --> 00:22:47,747
Mm-hmm.

469
00:22:47,788 --> 00:22:50,989
action driven in intention like that.

470
00:22:50,989 --> 00:22:57,531
And if you go, let's say you're three
years into a project and you're just going

471
00:22:57,531 --> 00:22:58,531
to market

472
00:22:59,205 --> 00:23:01,696
with your new ocean tech or ocean
innovation,

473
00:23:01,696 --> 00:23:04,158
and the very first thing you do is say,

474
00:23:04,158 --> 00:23:06,999
Hi, we're here, buy our stuff.

475
00:23:06,999 --> 00:23:12,662
This is the equivalent of going on a first
date and asking somebody to marry you,

476
00:23:12,662 --> 00:23:13,662
right?

477
00:23:13,253 --> 00:23:14,253
Yeah.

478
00:23:14,052 --> 00:23:15,746
That's true. Yeah.

479
00:23:15,237 --> 00:23:16,237
Because it's

480
00:23:15,877 --> 00:23:18,888
like you're just saying, hey, we've never
met before.

481
00:23:18,888 --> 00:23:20,369
Give me your money.

482
00:23:20,871 --> 00:23:21,871
Yeah.

483
00:23:21,449 --> 00:23:22,729
Give me your everything, right?

484
00:23:22,729 --> 00:23:24,590
And it just doesn't work that way.

485
00:23:24,590 --> 00:23:28,191
It doesn't work that way in relationships
and it doesn't work that way

486
00:23:27,138 --> 00:23:28,138
Ha ha ha.

487
00:23:28,291 --> 00:23:34,873
in our human day-to-day. So why do we
think it works that way in the Well,

488
00:23:30,139 --> 00:23:34,467
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Nally, there are some
reality shows that do that,

489
00:23:34,467 --> 00:23:36,210
but it doesn't seem like they work out.

490
00:23:34,873 --> 00:23:35,873
that's true.

491
00:23:36,854 --> 00:23:39,915
and I w I w I would argue they're staged
maybe a little bit.

492
00:23:39,661 --> 00:23:41,415
Yeah What

493
00:23:41,415 --> 00:23:42,415
no

494
00:23:41,580 --> 00:23:43,141
Yeah. Mind

495
00:23:43,141 --> 00:23:46,685
blowing. Yeah,

496
00:23:46,685 --> 00:23:49,467
but but that's just that. Like we we have
this idea,

497
00:23:49,467 --> 00:23:52,900
you know, that that's reality TV,

498
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:54,676
that's sensational to say like,

499
00:23:54,676 --> 00:23:57,784
yeah, you're gonna meet somebody on the
first date and ask them to marry you.

500
00:23:57,784 --> 00:23:59,058
That doesn't happen in the real world.

501
00:23:59,394 --> 00:24:00,632
No, not at all.

502
00:23:59,496 --> 00:24:00,516
And so why do we

503
00:24:00,677 --> 00:24:02,807
why do we build our communications that
way?

504
00:24:02,807 --> 00:24:03,807
So

505
00:24:03,272 --> 00:24:04,272
Yeah.

506
00:24:03,958 --> 00:24:05,549
to your point about building trust,

507
00:24:05,549 --> 00:24:09,080
like it's the same kind of analogy as you
build up any kind of relationship,

508
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,141
whether that's friendship, other,

509
00:24:11,141 --> 00:24:12,822
right? It's about

510
00:24:12,123 --> 00:24:13,123
Mm-hmm.

511
00:24:13,002 --> 00:24:15,643
little communications, little truths,

512
00:24:15,643 --> 00:24:18,564
little transparencies, even if they're
imperfect,

513
00:24:18,564 --> 00:24:19,575
right?

514
00:24:18,940 --> 00:24:19,940
Mm-hmm.

515
00:24:19,575 --> 00:24:22,456
Like that's a big thing in communications
I struggle with too.

516
00:24:22,456 --> 00:24:24,537
It's like it's progress, not perfection.

517
00:24:24,537 --> 00:24:25,537
And so when you

518
00:24:24,903 --> 00:24:25,903
Yeah.

519
00:24:25,297 --> 00:24:29,369
have a project and you're very clear from
the beginning.

520
00:24:29,649 --> 00:24:31,240
what you're doing, why you're doing it,

521
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,222
who it's for, and what you want them to
do,

522
00:24:33,222 --> 00:24:36,324
then you can just start these little
communications.

523
00:24:36,324 --> 00:24:37,334
They don't have to be perfect.

524
00:24:37,334 --> 00:24:40,937
It can be like, guys, our original
hypothesis is falling apart.

525
00:24:40,937 --> 00:24:43,138
Like we maybe need to rethink this piece.

526
00:24:41,361 --> 00:24:43,779
Right. Yeah.

527
00:24:43,138 --> 00:24:44,138
Or maybe

528
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:46,891
this failed, you know, this prototype
failed.

529
00:24:46,891 --> 00:24:48,792
That technology's not being picked up.

530
00:24:48,792 --> 00:24:51,504
Like in a world, like you said,

531
00:24:51,504 --> 00:24:55,516
that's kind of so much driven by digital
communications,

532
00:24:55,516 --> 00:24:56,516
where actually

533
00:24:55,729 --> 00:24:56,729
Mm-hmm.

534
00:24:56,267 --> 00:24:59,299
in this age of AI, we don't even know
what's true and what's not true.

535
00:25:00,189 --> 00:25:04,571
Something refreshingly human is like total
truth,

536
00:25:04,571 --> 00:25:07,152
whether it's good or bad. Like,

537
00:25:07,152 --> 00:25:09,613
you know what I mean? Like, if again,

538
00:25:08,485 --> 00:25:09,485
Yeah, a hundred percent.

539
00:25:09,613 --> 00:25:12,974
if you go through a relationship telling
everybody or whoever you're building

540
00:25:12,974 --> 00:25:15,235
a relationship with that you're awesome
all the time,

541
00:25:15,235 --> 00:25:18,317
it's like, well, no, nobody's awesome all
the time,

542
00:25:15,653 --> 00:25:21,890
Yeah. And then when you figure out you're
not awesome all the they figure

543
00:25:18,317 --> 00:25:23,789
and now you're a liar. Right.

544
00:25:21,890 --> 00:25:22,902
out you're not awesome all the time,

545
00:25:22,902 --> 00:25:24,333
then they call you out on it. Yeah.

546
00:25:24,419 --> 00:25:26,060
Exactly. And that's exactly

547
00:25:24,454 --> 00:25:25,605
Yeah. Yeah.

548
00:25:26,060 --> 00:25:28,202
the same thing that happens here in
communications.

549
00:25:28,202 --> 00:25:30,563
Like if you just pretend it's all great
and wonderful,

550
00:25:30,563 --> 00:25:33,175
somebody catches you out one day and it
can fall apart.

551
00:25:33,175 --> 00:25:36,988
So, you know, that's kind of the that's
sort of the advice.

552
00:25:36,988 --> 00:25:40,511
Like just communicate truthfully.

553
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:40,571
I guess I guess the other

554
00:25:40,571 --> 00:25:42,462
hand is that is like, can you go too far?

555
00:25:42,462 --> 00:25:43,703
You know, I'm sure a lot of people are
like,

556
00:25:43,703 --> 00:25:47,026
How transparent do I have to be to

557
00:25:46,567 --> 00:25:47,567
Sure.

558
00:25:47,026 --> 00:25:49,648
ensure that I'm building that that
relationship?

559
00:25:49,648 --> 00:25:54,242
Because there's you know, some people will
have ~ say they're building something

560
00:25:54,242 --> 00:25:57,905
for a patent and obviously they can't talk
about what they're what they're building

561
00:25:57,479 --> 00:25:58,479
Sure.

562
00:25:57,905 --> 00:26:00,857
until the patent goes through and and
things like that.

563
00:26:00,857 --> 00:26:05,180
you know, there there are a lot of of
creators out there who will be like,

564
00:26:05,180 --> 00:26:06,952
Yeah, here once they've made the product,

565
00:26:06,952 --> 00:26:08,283
then they kind of come out with

566
00:26:08,763 --> 00:26:11,697
This is what we've done and th and this is
how we did it and go back

567
00:26:11,697 --> 00:26:17,014
and show how they did it. How how
transparent do you have to be,

568
00:26:17,014 --> 00:26:19,948
I guess, in terms of of your
communications?

569
00:26:19,948 --> 00:26:21,110
I mean it's a difficult question.

570
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:23,963
I'm sure there's a line that a fine line
that you have to,

571
00:26:23,963 --> 00:26:26,297
you know, dance over type thing,

572
00:26:26,297 --> 00:26:27,297
but

573
00:26:27,290 --> 00:26:28,290
Yeah.

574
00:26:27,951 --> 00:26:32,053
And it's very dependent also on your brand
and that sort of image

575
00:26:31,334 --> 00:26:32,334
Mm-hmm.

576
00:26:32,053 --> 00:26:36,275
you wanna put out there, like what have
you decided your brand is.

577
00:26:36,275 --> 00:26:43,178
I mean, I would always personally err more
on the side of transparency and truth.

578
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:43,630
Right.

579
00:26:43,538 --> 00:26:47,160
But, you know, again, back to the
relationship thing.

580
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,682
There is such thing as TMI. Right?

581
00:26:49,497 --> 00:26:50,936
Yeah, for sure.

582
00:26:51,682 --> 00:26:52,682
And and you know,

583
00:26:52,653 --> 00:26:54,511
in this situation as well, like yeah,

584
00:26:54,511 --> 00:26:56,614
you're right, maybe you can't talk about a
patent yet,

585
00:26:56,614 --> 00:26:57,625
you can't talk about

586
00:26:58,065 --> 00:27:00,116
your exact solution or or whatever,

587
00:27:00,116 --> 00:27:01,987
but what you can always talk about,

588
00:27:01,987 --> 00:27:05,390
I think, is the problem you're trying to
solve and why it matters.

589
00:27:05,390 --> 00:27:06,390
And that sort

590
00:27:05,788 --> 00:27:06,788
Yeah.

591
00:27:06,190 --> 00:27:11,674
of broader vision that you have ~ in the
world and and you know always putting your

592
00:27:11,674 --> 00:27:13,935
communications through that truth test.

593
00:27:13,935 --> 00:27:20,619
Like if you say this is what I want to say
and then kind of put that next truth lens

594
00:27:20,619 --> 00:27:22,360
on it and go, Well can I say this?

595
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:26,765
Like if I was gonna say our technology is
the best ever at

596
00:27:25,723 --> 00:27:26,820
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

597
00:27:27,255 --> 00:27:33,518
X, Y, and Z, unless you can absolutely
with certainty back up that

598
00:27:33,518 --> 00:27:38,660
it is the best because you've got this
many years of client feedback

599
00:27:38,660 --> 00:27:40,561
and these many awards. Do you know what I
mean?

600
00:27:40,561 --> 00:27:41,561
You

601
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:41,700
Yeah.

602
00:27:41,142 --> 00:27:44,043
can't actually say you're the best,

603
00:27:44,043 --> 00:27:49,315
right? So I think that's kind of a a a way
to sort of find that middle ground.

604
00:27:49,296 --> 00:27:50,296
Right.

605
00:27:49,315 --> 00:27:50,315
It's like

606
00:27:49,605 --> 00:27:53,087
what can you say with certainty and what
can't you say?

607
00:27:53,087 --> 00:27:55,678
Because when you start saying things like
the best,

608
00:27:55,678 --> 00:27:56,955
the greatest ever, you

609
00:27:57,162 --> 00:27:59,045
you know, the best pizza in town,

610
00:27:59,045 --> 00:28:01,730
that kind of thing. Right?

611
00:27:59,456 --> 00:28:00,456
Yeah.

612
00:28:01,730 --> 00:28:05,697
It's like if that's not true then you are
degrading the trust.

613
00:28:05,697 --> 00:28:06,697
~

614
00:28:06,468 --> 00:28:08,799
Yeah. Well, and I think, you know,

615
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:09,980
the like the other aspect too,

616
00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:11,120
especially when we talk about,

617
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:14,982
you know, projects that center around
oceans,

618
00:28:14,982 --> 00:28:16,993
right? 'Cause that's what that's what we
deal with a lot.

619
00:28:16,993 --> 00:28:20,124
A lot of our clients are all our clients
are are ocean focused.

620
00:28:20,124 --> 00:28:23,755
There's always that that line of like,

621
00:28:23,755 --> 00:28:27,147
okay, you're you're impacting the ocean in
a positive way.

622
00:28:27,147 --> 00:28:30,628
And do you lead with that positive impact?

623
00:28:30,628 --> 00:28:33,410
So say it's a pr let's just as an example,

624
00:28:33,410 --> 00:28:34,410
let's say it's a product.

625
00:28:34,788 --> 00:28:37,279
Right. So a product that people can buy
that they can use,

626
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:43,863
but it has ~ an environmental benefit or
not a ~ negative aspect

627
00:28:43,863 --> 00:28:46,654
on the ocean, right? So say like a bar
soap or something like that.

628
00:28:46,654 --> 00:28:49,996
You know, like if you sell certain like
cleaning products that doesn't affect

629
00:28:49,996 --> 00:28:52,187
the ocean in a negative way, like many of
them do.

630
00:28:52,187 --> 00:28:58,191
Do you focus on like I I I know a lot of
I've I interviewed companies

631
00:28:58,191 --> 00:29:00,102
on how to protect the ocean where I'm
like,

632
00:29:00,102 --> 00:29:01,382
Do you focus on the environment,

633
00:29:01,382 --> 00:29:02,613
like the the benefits of the environment,

634
00:29:02,613 --> 00:29:04,524
or do you focus on how good the product

635
00:29:04,746 --> 00:29:08,090
is. So like that goes again,

636
00:29:08,090 --> 00:29:11,544
beginning of the project, you start
answering those questions from

637
00:29:11,544 --> 00:29:17,220
a commons perspective. ~ but like what's
your advice on that when

638
00:29:17,220 --> 00:29:20,354
it comes to environmental like looking at
the environmental benefit but also

639
00:29:20,354 --> 00:29:24,849
the the benefit of the product and service
to that person or or people

640
00:29:24,849 --> 00:29:25,890
or or group of people.

641
00:29:27,555 --> 00:29:32,078
yeah, so that's very much comes back to a
target audience kind of question.

642
00:29:32,078 --> 00:29:34,359
Right? Right?

643
00:29:32,516 --> 00:29:34,157
Right. Yeah, true. True.

644
00:29:34,359 --> 00:29:36,380
Because at the end of the day,

645
00:29:36,380 --> 00:29:39,422
you know, who did you make that soap for?

646
00:29:40,122 --> 00:29:41,122
Mm-hmm.

647
00:29:40,717 --> 00:29:42,908
What's their problem and what do they care
about?

648
00:29:42,908 --> 00:29:48,200
If their problem that you've established
is that you know for certainty that your

649
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:54,643
target demographic has problems buying
soap because it's always

650
00:29:55,123 --> 00:29:56,884
impacting the ocean in a negative way.

651
00:29:56,884 --> 00:29:57,945
Well, then

652
00:29:57,424 --> 00:29:58,424
Mm-hmm.

653
00:29:57,945 --> 00:30:00,406
the pain point you're solving for them is
that you've

654
00:30:00,406 --> 00:30:03,447
now created this ocean-friendly soap,

655
00:30:03,447 --> 00:30:04,447
right?

656
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:05,230
Right.

657
00:30:05,168 --> 00:30:10,100
But if you know you're you're dealing with
a group of people whose problem

658
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:11,100
is that they

659
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,135
just want a soap that smells like lavender
and passion fruit,

660
00:30:14,135 --> 00:30:15,437
then

661
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:15,360
Right, right.

662
00:30:15,437 --> 00:30:17,239
the ocean part of it doesn't matter.

663
00:30:17,239 --> 00:30:19,041
That can be part of your internal mission,

664
00:30:17,540 --> 00:30:20,728
Yeah. That's just the e the bonus of it.

665
00:30:19,041 --> 00:30:20,041
right?

666
00:30:20,728 --> 00:30:21,728
Yeah,

667
00:30:21,062 --> 00:30:22,683
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that can still

668
00:30:21,118 --> 00:30:22,542
yeah. Right.

669
00:30:22,683 --> 00:30:25,984
be what your company's doing. So then you
could f turn that around and say,

670
00:30:25,984 --> 00:30:28,596
Yeah, we make lavender passion fruit
scented soap,

671
00:30:28,596 --> 00:30:31,177
which solves your problem. But hey,

672
00:30:30,469 --> 00:30:31,469
Yes.

673
00:30:31,497 --> 00:30:36,799
ocean funder, over here, our main message
over here is that our

674
00:30:36,090 --> 00:30:37,090
Yes.

675
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:38,900
soap is ocean friendly, right?

676
00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:42,622
But it's very much who you're talking to
and understanding who you're talking

677
00:30:42,622 --> 00:30:44,643
to and knowing as well that everybody,

678
00:30:44,643 --> 00:30:47,044
every project is gonna have different
target audiences,

679
00:30:47,044 --> 00:30:49,365
which sounds like it starts to get
complicated,

680
00:30:49,365 --> 00:30:50,365
but

681
00:30:49,648 --> 00:30:50,648
Mm-hmm.

682
00:30:50,226 --> 00:30:51,226
when you just

683
00:30:50,996 --> 00:30:55,400
Think what's this particular communication
about?

684
00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,874
Who's it for? It's amazing how much you
can dial in this like complexity of well,

685
00:31:00,874 --> 00:31:04,227
we have 8,000 features and we're also
environmentally friendly

686
00:31:04,227 --> 00:31:06,679
and also fully women-owned and fully
Canadian.

687
00:31:06,656 --> 00:31:07,946
Yeah. ~

688
00:31:06,679 --> 00:31:07,990
It's like, you

689
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:11,483
know, pick and choose who cares about each
of those things,

690
00:31:10,586 --> 00:31:13,347
Right. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

691
00:31:11,483 --> 00:31:16,588
right? Sure.

692
00:31:13,347 --> 00:31:16,728
Now you can have it all in your within
your company or your project,

693
00:31:17,289 --> 00:31:21,030
but it doesn't mean you're telling
specific people about it all the time

694
00:31:21,210 --> 00:31:22,341
and and that's just something you're

695
00:31:21,512 --> 00:31:22,512
That's right.

696
00:31:22,341 --> 00:31:23,731
proud and it goes within your values.

697
00:31:23,731 --> 00:31:27,413
Which actually brings me to ~ brings me to
the like the next point I

698
00:31:27,413 --> 00:31:29,754
was gonna make is melding these two
together.

699
00:31:29,754 --> 00:31:34,256
We talked initially about how st starting
comms early,

700
00:31:34,256 --> 00:31:35,446
like at the beginning of the project,

701
00:31:35,446 --> 00:31:38,047
can really help you flesh through ideas,

702
00:31:38,047 --> 00:31:39,938
~ flesh out ideas at the

703
00:31:40,099 --> 00:31:43,010
at the beginning and look at where you
what direction you want to go,

704
00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:45,020
who you want to sell to, all those kind of
things.

705
00:31:45,020 --> 00:31:48,381
And then the then we move to the the
building the relationship part,

706
00:31:48,381 --> 00:31:52,002
the trust, the transparency, that loyalty
is really great.

707
00:31:52,002 --> 00:31:55,823
Your example just right now that you
mentioned is looking at both.

708
00:31:55,823 --> 00:31:59,274
You have your internal feature of building
out that project.

709
00:31:59,274 --> 00:32:02,175
So having that comms, looking at funding
investor,

710
00:32:02,175 --> 00:32:04,555
~ what who you're gonna target,

711
00:32:04,555 --> 00:32:06,946
all these kind of things. So you have that
communication ready.

712
00:32:07,364 --> 00:32:08,984
And then while you're doing that,

713
00:32:08,984 --> 00:32:13,936
you're building that relationship with
like with that transparency,

714
00:32:13,936 --> 00:32:16,447
right? And so you're building like
externally,

715
00:32:16,447 --> 00:32:17,774
you're you're you're building a
relationship,

716
00:32:17,774 --> 00:32:19,158
you're looking at credibility,

717
00:32:19,158 --> 00:32:22,789
you're you're you're communicating
yourself about what you've been able to

718
00:32:22,789 --> 00:32:27,220
do or who you've hired or like and why
it's important to the business

719
00:32:27,220 --> 00:32:29,981
or to the project that that's that's going
forward.

720
00:32:29,981 --> 00:32:32,632
I really like those those two together,

721
00:32:32,632 --> 00:32:33,632
and that's why.

722
00:32:33,552 --> 00:32:35,663
comms early dissolves those two,

723
00:32:35,663 --> 00:32:37,624
but you have to focus on those two.

724
00:32:37,624 --> 00:32:42,287
~ you know, we've have we have some
clients that that have done that,

725
00:32:42,287 --> 00:32:45,499
which is which is really great with with
our help and and through

726
00:32:45,499 --> 00:32:47,120
our guidance and and things like that.

727
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,576
Can you just we don't have to mention
their name,

728
00:32:48,576 --> 00:32:50,132
but can you just talk about like,

729
00:32:50,132 --> 00:32:52,473
you know, one of the companies that we're
working with that have kind

730
00:32:52,613 --> 00:32:54,094
of have approached it in that kind of way.

731
00:32:55,314 --> 00:32:59,757
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. One one really
comes to mind and and you know,

732
00:32:59,757 --> 00:33:02,799
it's it's nice because you talk about
relationships.

733
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:03,890
Like one of the reasons

734
00:33:03,237 --> 00:33:04,237
Right.

735
00:33:03,890 --> 00:33:08,083
we have ~ been able to work with this
client and help them build communications

736
00:33:08,083 --> 00:33:12,506
early on is because we've had that
existing relationship with them because
this

737
00:33:12,506 --> 00:33:14,427
is really the exception, rather the rule.

738
00:33:14,427 --> 00:33:16,098
Usually we meet projects that are,

739
00:33:16,098 --> 00:33:20,211
you know, quite far down the line and we
have to do a lot of that untangling.

740
00:33:20,211 --> 00:33:22,322
But in this case, yeah, we're very,

741
00:33:22,322 --> 00:33:24,584
very lucky to work with this ~

742
00:33:25,144 --> 00:33:30,888
New ocean company and to get to be
building communications right from the
start.

743
00:33:30,888 --> 00:33:32,689
And that doesn't mean it's easy,

744
00:33:32,689 --> 00:33:34,751
right? Like I just want to caveat that.

745
00:33:34,751 --> 00:33:39,534
Like there's you know, communications is
not just the fluffy,

746
00:33:39,534 --> 00:33:41,415
easy stuff that happens at the end.

747
00:33:41,415 --> 00:33:43,807
It's pretty deep thinking stuff.

748
00:33:43,807 --> 00:33:44,837
And so even when you start

749
00:33:44,198 --> 00:33:45,198
Mm-hmm.

750
00:33:44,837 --> 00:33:47,139
it at the beginning, you still have to put
time into it.

751
00:33:47,428 --> 00:33:48,523
Yeah, for sure.

752
00:33:49,075 --> 00:33:53,213
But with this client having the
opportunity to come in before this
business

753
00:33:53,274 --> 00:33:55,965
is even launched and to say, okay,

754
00:33:55,965 --> 00:33:58,365
what do we want our brand to be?

755
00:33:58,365 --> 00:34:00,128
How do we want to be known?

756
00:34:01,283 --> 00:34:03,734
To be because that's really what your
brand is.

757
00:34:03,734 --> 00:34:06,955
It's not just your logo, it's actually
like how you want to be known

758
00:34:06,639 --> 00:34:07,639
Yeah.

759
00:34:07,176 --> 00:34:10,877
in the world. So we are able to work with
this company to kind of establish that.

760
00:34:10,877 --> 00:34:14,679
And then what's been really interesting is
that we did that,

761
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,720
and then six months later, things are
changing in the business,

762
00:34:17,720 --> 00:34:20,761
right? Like it's it's new, there's new
opportunities,

763
00:34:20,761 --> 00:34:22,502
things are changing, things are growing.

764
00:34:22,502 --> 00:34:27,004
So there are aspects of that original
brand and communication strategy that we
go,

765
00:34:27,004 --> 00:34:28,975
huh, you know, this isn't quite relevant.

766
00:34:28,975 --> 00:34:31,006
Let's update this, let's tweak that.

767
00:34:31,867 --> 00:34:33,668
Right, let's make these minor changes.

768
00:34:33,668 --> 00:34:38,671
And now what we're able to do is take that
and turn it into this content kind

769
00:34:38,671 --> 00:34:43,414
of tactics strategy, which is again is
sort of showing this different line
between

770
00:34:43,634 --> 00:34:47,276
strategic kind of thinking and the
communication sort of plan,

771
00:34:47,276 --> 00:34:49,708
and then the actual tactics, right?

772
00:34:47,663 --> 00:34:49,511
Yeah. Yeah.

773
00:34:49,708 --> 00:34:55,542
But we are now able to build content
strategy and tactics for this client based

774
00:34:55,542 --> 00:34:59,615
on this communication strategy that
focuses on the right people,

775
00:34:59,615 --> 00:35:00,766
the right messages.

776
00:34:59,973 --> 00:35:00,973
Mm-hmm.

777
00:35:01,066 --> 00:35:03,747
Saying things they can verify so that they

778
00:35:03,203 --> 00:35:04,203
Mm-hmm.

779
00:35:03,747 --> 00:35:06,899
don't launch their company full of blue
washing,

780
00:35:06,899 --> 00:35:09,010
green washing, whatever you want to call
it.

781
00:35:07,914 --> 00:35:10,338
Mm-hmm. True, true.

782
00:35:09,010 --> 00:35:10,570
Right?

783
00:35:10,731 --> 00:35:13,692
But without that, without having that
foundation,

784
00:35:13,692 --> 00:35:17,124
you run this risk of having like,

785
00:35:17,124 --> 00:35:23,066
okay, guys, we're gonna build a one-year
content calendar and everybody just talks

786
00:35:23,066 --> 00:35:27,698
about everything and nothing at the same
time to everyone and nobody,

787
00:35:25,455 --> 00:35:28,711
Yeah. True. True.

788
00:35:27,698 --> 00:35:29,549
you know, and like

789
00:35:29,549 --> 00:35:30,763
you see that all.

790
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,553
all the time, right? From companies

791
00:35:31,417 --> 00:35:33,343
Yeah. Yeah. Well

792
00:35:33,553 --> 00:35:39,019
whose social medias are just awash with
meaningless content that doesn't

793
00:35:38,361 --> 00:35:41,624
Yeah. Well exactly. And and

794
00:35:39,019 --> 00:35:40,351
tie back to anything, right?

795
00:35:41,624 --> 00:35:44,006
and you know, something that comes to mind
too with that client's like

796
00:35:44,006 --> 00:35:46,778
the the the strategy changes as the

797
00:35:46,386 --> 00:35:47,386
Mm-hmm.

798
00:35:46,778 --> 00:35:50,801
growth happens, right? And as the the
maturation of the of the company

799
00:35:50,801 --> 00:35:56,128
or of the project continues. And so your
your first six months is gonna

800
00:35:56,128 --> 00:35:59,889
be different than your next your second
six months and or first quarter or second,

801
00:35:59,889 --> 00:36:01,020
like however you want to think,

802
00:36:01,020 --> 00:36:04,613
right? I I think you know when you but
when you start early,

803
00:36:04,613 --> 00:36:06,364
you c you have that development,

804
00:36:06,364 --> 00:36:07,605
you have that you can s like

805
00:36:07,727 --> 00:36:11,940
people, your audience is watching you
evolve and build over that time.

806
00:36:11,940 --> 00:36:13,852
And then as this switches, I was like,

807
00:36:13,852 --> 00:36:15,593
okay, now they're in this phase.

808
00:36:15,593 --> 00:36:18,135
Okay, cool. Like I really want to see
where they're going to go next.

809
00:36:18,135 --> 00:36:21,998
And they start to become even more loyal
and more supportive as you go

810
00:36:21,998 --> 00:36:24,811
as you go through ~ that that step.

811
00:36:24,811 --> 00:36:30,135
So this is great. ~ one thing I want to do
~ for the audience ~ that

812
00:36:30,135 --> 00:36:34,519
are listening to this, because I assume
there are going to be project leaders

813
00:36:34,659 --> 00:36:37,399
and the ocean project leaders and they
want to see they want to hear

814
00:36:37,943 --> 00:36:40,718
What the one thing they can do really,

815
00:36:40,718 --> 00:36:46,178
you know, to really make sure that comms
is first or really make sure their comms

816
00:36:46,178 --> 00:36:49,414
is locked down, what would that be,

817
00:36:49,414 --> 00:36:50,767
Natalie, that you would suggest?

818
00:36:51,836 --> 00:36:54,758
The one thing I would suggest is those
four questions,

819
00:36:54,758 --> 00:36:57,110
you know, which which I mentioned a couple
times,

820
00:36:55,267 --> 00:36:57,889
Yeah. Yep.

821
00:36:57,110 --> 00:36:58,130
but I think it's great

822
00:36:58,130 --> 00:37:01,113
to wrap up on because if you can answer
those four questions,

823
00:37:01,113 --> 00:37:04,905
you'll be light years ahead of a lot of
the other projects out there,

824
00:37:04,905 --> 00:37:08,227
right? So it's very clearly articulating
what you're doing,

825
00:37:08,227 --> 00:37:11,630
who you're doing it for, why you're doing
it,

826
00:37:11,630 --> 00:37:14,852
and what the world will look like once
you've done it.

827
00:37:14,852 --> 00:37:18,415
Right. And those four things will make a
huge,

828
00:37:18,415 --> 00:37:19,415
huge difference.

829
00:37:19,673 --> 00:37:20,673
Yeah,

830
00:37:20,314 --> 00:37:22,104
I love that. Natalie, thank you so much.

831
00:37:22,104 --> 00:37:25,010
this has been wonderful to have these
types of conversations.

832
00:37:25,010 --> 00:37:29,316
We're gonna continue to have these every
other week ~ as we as we move along

833
00:37:29,316 --> 00:37:32,130
and evolve through our process of this
podcast.

834
00:37:32,130 --> 00:37:35,384
~ and we hope that we get to hear from you
all soon.

835
00:37:35,384 --> 00:37:37,146
~ but thank you, Natalie, for joining us.

836
00:37:37,146 --> 00:37:38,146
Appreciate it.

837
00:37:38,173 --> 00:37:39,173
Thank you.

838
00:37:39,344 --> 00:37:41,405
Well, thank Natalie for joining us on the
podcast.

839
00:37:41,405 --> 00:37:43,405
It's great to have you on always.

840
00:37:43,405 --> 00:37:46,288
~ it's a lot of fun ~ to be able to talk
communications.

841
00:37:46,288 --> 00:37:49,049
It's what we do. You know, Natalie and I
talk about these things all

842
00:37:49,049 --> 00:37:51,541
the time during work. ~ and so we thought,

843
00:37:51,541 --> 00:37:54,522
you know what, let's record this because
this is something that we

844
00:37:54,522 --> 00:37:59,205
we feel is important to discuss ~ on a
regular basis when you are,

845
00:37:59,205 --> 00:38:03,107
you know, managing a project. We've seen
it so many times where people release

846
00:38:03,107 --> 00:38:08,930
products or services and it just it just
fizzles out because they haven't done the

847
00:38:09,050 --> 00:38:11,691
work to go through the process from the
beginning.

848
00:38:11,691 --> 00:38:16,213
And it's important that all those ideas
get flushed out.

849
00:38:16,213 --> 00:38:18,774
All those tangents that you can go down,

850
00:38:18,774 --> 00:38:24,487
those get ~ you know, basically you go
through that process of elimination,

851
00:38:24,487 --> 00:38:27,708
you know, to make sure that you're going
down the right tangent that you want

852
00:38:27,708 --> 00:38:30,380
to go down and make that the focus as you
go through.

853
00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:33,581
And doing that from the beginning will
really help you save time,

854
00:38:33,581 --> 00:38:35,422
save money, same effort.

855
00:38:35,892 --> 00:38:38,403
and probably save your your mindfulness,

856
00:38:38,403 --> 00:38:40,514
you know, your mental health a lot of the
times.

857
00:38:40,514 --> 00:38:42,875
It's stressful starting a d a any kind of
project,

858
00:38:42,875 --> 00:38:46,086
whether it's a company, ~ a program for a
nonprofit,

859
00:38:46,086 --> 00:38:49,877
or a new project, you know, with a network
of academics or just within

860
00:38:49,877 --> 00:38:51,748
an the own academic institute.

861
00:38:51,748 --> 00:38:53,879
It's it's stressful. It's it's difficult.

862
00:38:53,879 --> 00:38:57,530
It's not an easy thing. The questions that
we that Natalie proposes to ask

863
00:38:58,178 --> 00:38:59,289
They're not easy to go through.

864
00:38:59,289 --> 00:39:03,130
They take a long time to go through and to
think about and to make sure that

865
00:39:03,130 --> 00:39:06,846
you they're refined and and those ideas
are presented properly.

866
00:39:06,846 --> 00:39:10,660
And then building that relationship is is
tough right off the bat,

867
00:39:10,660 --> 00:39:12,752
especially with the the age of social
media,

868
00:39:12,752 --> 00:39:15,234
the age of everybody's got information on
everybody.

869
00:39:15,234 --> 00:39:20,769
~ they building trust is a is a huge
aspect of relationship building when

870
00:39:20,769 --> 00:39:23,802
you are a project or a company or a
program.

871
00:39:24,024 --> 00:39:26,615
It's important that you build that
relationship right from the get-go.

872
00:39:26,615 --> 00:39:29,476
and we we presented the reasons why here.

873
00:39:29,476 --> 00:39:32,757
Now, if you are listening to this podcast
and you're like,

874
00:39:32,757 --> 00:39:36,048
man, I I'm that person, or ~ man,

875
00:39:36,048 --> 00:39:38,438
like, don't worry about it. It's not the
end of the world.

876
00:39:38,438 --> 00:39:41,469
We're here to help. Pisces Oceans would
like to work with you,

877
00:39:41,469 --> 00:39:44,960
especially if your project has a has a
positive impact on the ocean.

878
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,070
We want to work with you. the biggest step
that you can take.

879
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:51,392
is you go to our website, the link is in
this is in the show notes,

880
00:39:51,392 --> 00:39:54,044
and you go to our website and you say,

881
00:39:54,044 --> 00:39:56,856
hey, I want to strengthen my project.

882
00:39:56,856 --> 00:39:58,917
And you click that button, strengthen my
project,

883
00:39:58,917 --> 00:40:01,459
and you go into the Wayfinder.

884
00:40:01,459 --> 00:40:04,555
And it'll help you determine what you need
help with.

885
00:40:04,555 --> 00:40:07,143
It could be communications, could be
project management,

886
00:40:07,143 --> 00:40:09,145
could be strategy for your project.

887
00:40:09,145 --> 00:40:11,306
We can help in all three of those areas.

888
00:40:11,306 --> 00:40:13,228
We'd love to help you in all three of
those areas.

889
00:40:13,228 --> 00:40:15,810
So click the right buttons that are
appropriate for you.

890
00:40:16,154 --> 00:40:19,537
We'll get a meeting going. We'll have a
chat and we'll see where we can help

891
00:40:19,537 --> 00:40:23,110
you in the future. So go to that website
in the show notes.

892
00:40:23,110 --> 00:40:26,973
You can just click on it and we will chat
with you next time here

893
00:40:26,973 --> 00:40:29,526
on the Ocean Leader Podcast. Have a great
day.

894
00:40:29,526 --> 00:40:31,150
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great
day.

895
00:40:31,150 --> 00:40:34,720
I hope you have a great week and we'll
talk to you next time on

896
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:35,891
the Ocean Leaders Podcast.