You Got the Grant. Now What? Managing Ocean Projects with Melissa Weber

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One of the things as an ocean leader you

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have to do is you have to

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have projects. You have to do

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something, whether you are starting a

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business, whether you are managing a

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student from a graduate

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perspective, or whether you're a

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nonprofit program manager and you got to

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manage a bunch of projects,

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you got to get that project, right?

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You've got to write that grant. You got

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to put all the time and

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all the effort and the blood, sweat and

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tears to get that grant. We

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all know what it's like to put

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together a proposal. It takes days,

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weeks, months, maybe even years,

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depending on what you're going

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for, gathering all the partners. It's a

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huge task. Then you hand it

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in, you cross your fingers,

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hope for the best, and then you get that

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beautiful email to say, "Hey, we're

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giving you this grant.

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Congratulations." And then you're like,

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"That's wonderful.

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Let's close this laptop.

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Let's go celebrate." And then three days

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later you come back and you're like,

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"What do I need to do to manage this

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project?" That's going to be

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the focus of today's episode,

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is managing a project once you receive

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that grant. It's

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something that's not talked about

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a lot with Ocean Projects and within the

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Ocean Leader community. We

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love talking about receiving

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grants. We love talking about applying

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for grants and then receiving those

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grants. Or sometimes we

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talk about not receiving a grant, why we

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didn't receive it. But we

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never really talk about the

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management of a project, which is like

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the foundation of how to

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not only manage one project

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and make sure it's successful, but also

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to build the relationship with that

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funder so that you can

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help your chances of getting more grants

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with that funder. So

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today on the podcast, we have

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Melissa Weber, who is the co-CEO of

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Pisces, the Pisces Oceans. This is who I

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work for as the Ocean

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Manager. My name is Andrew Lewin and we

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are here to talk about what

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it's like to manage a project

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as an Ocean Leader. Melissa gives us her

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best advice and it's

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amazing. You're going to love it.

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So here is that interview. Enjoy and I'll

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talk to you after. Hey,

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Melissa, welcome back to the

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Ocean Leaders podcast, a Pisces podcast

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as you being one of the co-CEO's of

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Pisces. This is where

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we discuss some of the things that we go

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through on a regular basis. We help

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clients through. One

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of the big things that we talk about is

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grants and after you receive

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the grant. And I think we're

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going to talk about this and we'll talk

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about what the steps are after you get a

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grant and what people

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may be missing. Before we get into that

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though, Melissa, just remind

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us who you are, what you do,

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and then some of the work that you've

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done in the past with Pisces. Yeah, for

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sure. Thanks, Andrew,

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and thanks for having me. I'm really

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happy to be here and excited to talk

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about one of my favorite

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topics, research administration. So who I

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am, my name is Melissa

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Weber. I have my PhD from the

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University of Ottawa. I spent 10 years in

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academia as a student, a

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researcher, research assistant,

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all those fun things. And then I've spent

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my professional career

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at Pisces. So I joined

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during the pandemic and have been with

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the company through all

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sorts of changes and really

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sort of niched myself in the research

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administration space. So I

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have lots of experience with

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not only administering grants, but also

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proposal writing the

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full project life cycle.

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I really think that's interesting because

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that's something we're

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not necessarily taught

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as an undergrad, right? You go through

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undergrad as a social

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scientist or as a marine scientist or

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whatever you're doing in science or even

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any really aspect. I

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don't feel like there were

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courses to handle the project management

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unless you took like a

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PMP outside. Where did this

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interest come from for you in terms of

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just looking at how to manage projects?

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Yeah, it's interesting. I think it's just

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something that's kind

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of falls within my unique

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abilities and skills, like just how I

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think very logical, organized, very also

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curious. And I would

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say like, it's really interesting in the

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university system because as an

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undergrad, you don't really

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understand how it works. You're just kind

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of one of the ants

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marching through. And even at the

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master's level, you don't fully get it.

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But then once you're at

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the PhD level, you start to,

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the layers of the onion start to unpeel

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and you're like, "Oh wow, this is how

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this works. This is how

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being a professor works. This is how

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professors get money. This is how the

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grant system works and all

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things." And so I was exposed to it

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during my PhD in different

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ways. Always hearing about

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reporting that was due and all sorts of

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things. But it was really

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working with Cass and under

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her leadership and mentorship where I

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really started to like peel back the

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onion quite quickly.

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Like, "Wow, there's a lot to learn and a

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lot to understand in this

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space." And you're right,

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it's something that's taught because in

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the university space, it

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falls under the realm of

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the professor, the academic holding the

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grant. And in the

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nonprofit space, it's just part of

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running a nonprofit. So it kind of just

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gets overlooked a lot of times.

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Before we go on, because I have some

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questions around that,

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especially in the graduate work that

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you did. Just to remind you, Cass was our

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CEO before and she moved

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on. You and Natalie took

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over. So she was here at Pisces when you

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joined. So she taught you a

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lot about it because that was

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her specialty. You guys both have that

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unique ability to kind of

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look, Christy as well, to

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kind of look in that logical fashion to

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do that. But when you

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were in graduate school,

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and you had to do a little bit of that,

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you had to start looking

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at reporting for grants.

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Did you even think that was a thing?

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Because for me, when I did my

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master's, I never had to do any

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reporting. So I was given the grant by my

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professor, he had the money,

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I went in, I did my work. So

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from then I was like, "Grants are just

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free money. You do your work,

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you produce your paper, your

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PhD or whatever, and then you just move

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on." But that's not the

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case. Somebody has to, there's no

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money that is just given and just be

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like, "Do whatever you want

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with." There are certain things

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you have to do back. Can you just kind of

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talk a little bit about

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that and then your journey,

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as well as some of your classmates who

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went through it, did they

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struggle with it at all in

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terms of managing that? Yeah, that's a

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good question. I can't

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pinpoint the moment when I

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figured it all out. But there was little

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things during my PhD,

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managing my field work and all

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those stuff. Of course, it was covered

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under grants that my

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supervisor had, but just making

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sure, having a budget, what will the

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university... I mean, there's different

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layers to it because

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it's like, what will the university

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cover? Then what will the grant cover?

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And fortunately, I was

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with a very world-renowned researcher who

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had lots of money, so

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it was a little less

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stringent, I guess, because things kind

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of moved in different places.

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But yeah, it's kind of a lot to figure

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out. When you're a student,

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you don't fully understand

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either. So you're just like, "Okay,

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sure." You're just kind of

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going through whatever people ask

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you. You're like, "Absolutely." But I

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think actually working...

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Because during my PhD, I worked in

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Nunavut with different Inuit communities

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and my PhD research was in

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Joe Haven. I kind of learned

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some of these nuances, I think earlier

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than most. One of the big ones that

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really kind of opened my

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eyes to how complex the system can be is

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that when I was in Joe

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Haven doing my field work,

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I wanted to extend it to provide

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honoraria. At this time, the

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university, there was a lot of

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changes and it was challenging. We're

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trying to balance this, "Well, we can't

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just hand out cash."

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But then it's like, "Well, okay, then

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what do I do?" And so trying

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to work with them to find a

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solution that works for everyone because

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it is such a unique

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situation and doing research there

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is a different context than other parts

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of the country or even the

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world. So I think that was

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a major barrier to it. And then really, I

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jumped in head first when I started

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working here at Pisces.

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I joined as the ocean allies intern on a

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My Tax internship and that

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in and of itself was a whole

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learning curve. And I think that's really

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where I was like, "Wow,

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having grants is a lot more than

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just money. There's a lot of strings

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attached and a lot of moving pieces." I

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mean, again, especially

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within the university context, the amount

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of people involved in

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administering a grant and

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getting the money from in the situation

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of My Tax, from My Tax to the student,

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there's a lot of people

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that need different things and it's not

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as simple as it all

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sounds when you think about it.

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And a lot of the times, and you can

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correct me if I'm wrong, but all these

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layers, they've been

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01:10:21,458 --> 01:10:23,291
installed as checks and balances to

277
01:10:23,291 --> 01:10:24,375
ensure that the money is

278
01:10:24,375 --> 01:10:26,791
being used for the project that it

279
01:10:26,791 --> 01:10:29,416
was assigned to and that people are

280
01:10:29,416 --> 01:10:31,333
following the rules. So although a lot of

281
01:10:31,333 --> 01:10:32,416
the times someone like

282
01:10:32,458 --> 01:10:34,000
myself would be like, "Man, this is a

283
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:35,958
pain in the butt. This takes up a lot of

284
01:10:35,958 --> 01:10:37,125
time," which it takes

285
01:10:37,125 --> 01:10:40,291
up a lot of time. You should view it more

286
01:10:40,291 --> 01:10:42,500
as change that, flip that

287
01:10:42,500 --> 01:10:44,333
narrative as like, "This

288
01:10:44,333 --> 01:10:48,000
is the foundation of managing this grant.

289
01:10:48,500 --> 01:10:49,625
It's not just money. I want

290
01:10:49,625 --> 01:10:51,875
to make sure that the agency

291
01:10:51,916 --> 01:10:54,916
that granted me this money knows that I'm

292
01:10:54,916 --> 01:10:57,500
using it properly and putting

293
01:10:57,500 --> 01:10:59,833
all that by doing everything

294
01:10:59,875 --> 01:11:01,875
that's necessary and giving them the

295
01:11:01,875 --> 01:11:04,125
reports and talking to the right people

296
01:11:04,125 --> 01:11:05,625
and making sure that

297
01:11:05,625 --> 01:11:07,125
I have spreadsheets upon spreadsheets

298
01:11:07,125 --> 01:11:09,333
upon spreadsheets to make sure I'm

299
01:11:09,333 --> 01:11:10,208
tracking everything so

300
01:11:10,208 --> 01:11:12,583
that when they question it, they can just

301
01:11:12,583 --> 01:11:13,875
look at it and be like, "Okay, cool.

302
01:11:14,208 --> 01:11:15,125
Melissa's doing really

303
01:11:15,125 --> 01:11:17,208
well. Andrew's doing really well. We know

304
01:11:17,208 --> 01:11:18,666
that the next time funding

305
01:11:18,666 --> 01:11:20,083
comes around, if they apply,

306
01:11:20,625 --> 01:11:22,666
we might want to go for them because we

307
01:11:22,666 --> 01:11:24,041
know that they followed the

308
01:11:24,041 --> 01:11:25,000
rules and they follow this

309
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:26,708
foundation." But I think a lot of people

310
01:11:26,708 --> 01:11:28,250
think of it in a different way of just

311
01:11:28,250 --> 01:11:29,083
like, "Oh, this kind

312
01:11:29,083 --> 01:11:30,416
of gets in the way of the research that

313
01:11:30,416 --> 01:11:32,750
I'm doing," which is very important too,

314
01:11:32,750 --> 01:11:33,583
but it's kind of like,

315
01:11:33,583 --> 01:11:35,708
"Oh, okay." But I kind of want to take it

316
01:11:35,708 --> 01:11:36,708
back a little bit because

317
01:11:36,875 --> 01:11:39,083
you've done your PhD, you've

318
01:11:39,083 --> 01:11:40,541
done the managing, you've worked with

319
01:11:40,541 --> 01:11:43,458
Pisces and you work with clients. We work

320
01:11:43,458 --> 01:11:44,250
with clients to make

321
01:11:44,250 --> 01:11:46,291
sure that they are able to put in the

322
01:11:46,291 --> 01:11:47,958
right reports, make sure those checks and

323
01:11:47,958 --> 01:11:48,833
balances are done so

324
01:11:48,833 --> 01:11:51,666
that they can focus on the research.

325
01:11:51,666 --> 01:11:53,083
Because a lot of the times it's like

326
01:11:53,291 --> 01:11:54,666
these teams are small

327
01:11:54,750 --> 01:11:56,416
or they're busy doing the research and

328
01:11:56,416 --> 01:11:57,875
they can't do both because

329
01:11:57,875 --> 01:11:59,541
it's a lot of work. I mean,

330
01:11:59,833 --> 01:12:01,000
we were just talking about it earlier,

331
01:12:01,291 --> 01:12:01,875
there are major

332
01:12:01,875 --> 01:12:03,625
organizations out there that employ

333
01:12:03,625 --> 01:12:06,083
specific people to just do the reporting

334
01:12:06,083 --> 01:12:07,041
back to the granting

335
01:12:07,041 --> 01:12:08,500
agencies, which I think is important.

336
01:12:09,250 --> 01:12:11,083
But I think what a lot of people think is

337
01:12:11,083 --> 01:12:12,208
like when you apply for a

338
01:12:12,208 --> 01:12:13,875
grant, there's so much to go

339
01:12:13,875 --> 01:12:16,458
into applying for a grant. There's making

340
01:12:16,458 --> 01:12:17,458
sure you got your team in

341
01:12:17,458 --> 01:12:19,541
place, making sure that you've

342
01:12:19,583 --> 01:12:24,250
got the right budget and make sure that

343
01:12:24,250 --> 01:12:25,583
you have everything that you

344
01:12:26,208 --> 01:12:27,625
said you've done, you could do,

345
01:12:27,708 --> 01:12:29,000
all that kind of stuff. It could take

346
01:12:29,375 --> 01:12:30,458
months, it could take

347
01:12:30,458 --> 01:12:33,083
weeks, you never know how long it

348
01:12:33,083 --> 01:12:35,333
takes to put together. And then you apply

349
01:12:35,333 --> 01:12:36,541
and you just sit back and

350
01:12:36,541 --> 01:12:37,625
cross your fingers, hopefully

351
01:12:37,625 --> 01:12:39,916
that you beat out anybody else that comes

352
01:12:39,916 --> 01:12:40,875
in and then you get it.

353
01:12:41,416 --> 01:12:42,625
And the chances of getting it

354
01:12:42,625 --> 01:12:45,541
depending, the odds are not in your favor

355
01:12:45,541 --> 01:12:46,375
a lot of the times if you

356
01:12:46,375 --> 01:12:48,041
don't know the agency and things

357
01:12:48,041 --> 01:12:49,791
like that. But then you get it and you're

358
01:12:49,791 --> 01:12:50,875
like, "Woo-hoo, this is

359
01:12:50,875 --> 01:12:52,125
awesome." We get to do the work

360
01:12:52,125 --> 01:12:53,583
that we've always wanted to do, we get to

361
01:12:53,583 --> 01:12:54,625
help a community out, we

362
01:12:54,625 --> 01:12:55,875
get to do all this beautiful

363
01:12:55,875 --> 01:12:58,833
stuff and understand the earth a little

364
01:12:58,833 --> 01:12:59,958
bit better, especially in our

365
01:12:59,958 --> 01:13:00,791
case where we're in the ocean.

366
01:13:02,291 --> 01:13:04,958
But then it's like, we talk about all

367
01:13:04,958 --> 01:13:06,166
this stuff to put the application

368
01:13:06,166 --> 01:13:07,250
together, but then we never

369
01:13:07,250 --> 01:13:09,250
really talk about, you never see it at

370
01:13:09,250 --> 01:13:10,333
conferences. You see

371
01:13:10,333 --> 01:13:11,541
grant writing is important,

372
01:13:11,958 --> 01:13:13,333
you never see it at conferences, like how

373
01:13:13,333 --> 01:13:16,000
to manage everything. Why

374
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:17,208
do you think there's not

375
01:13:17,458 --> 01:13:20,708
focus in how to manage a grant? I've

376
01:13:20,708 --> 01:13:22,000
never seen a workshop at a

377
01:13:22,125 --> 01:13:23,541
conference, I've never really

378
01:13:23,958 --> 01:13:26,166
hear people talking about it because

379
01:13:26,166 --> 01:13:27,583
there's so much to go into it. And if

380
01:13:27,583 --> 01:13:28,416
you're not used to it,

381
01:13:28,416 --> 01:13:30,041
like as a student or a young

382
01:13:30,041 --> 01:13:32,000
professional, you may not know what to

383
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:34,458
do. Yeah, that's a really

384
01:13:34,458 --> 01:13:36,791
good question. I never thought about why

385
01:13:37,583 --> 01:13:39,041
it's not talked about. And I think it's

386
01:13:39,041 --> 01:13:40,000
because people just,

387
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:44,625
for lack of a better word piecemeal it

388
01:13:44,625 --> 01:13:46,666
together, they just push

389
01:13:46,666 --> 01:13:49,458
through and find a way, hire a

390
01:13:49,458 --> 01:13:53,708
student, hire someone, or just make it

391
01:13:53,708 --> 01:13:57,166
happen. And I think also

392
01:13:57,166 --> 01:13:59,791
it's not a sexy topic. I mean,

393
01:14:00,166 --> 01:14:02,416
grant writing is like how to get more

394
01:14:02,416 --> 01:14:05,666
money, how to, that excites

395
01:14:05,666 --> 01:14:08,333
people, but how to manage your

396
01:14:08,375 --> 01:14:12,458
better. It's not super exciting. I mean,

397
01:14:13,458 --> 01:14:14,916
it's one of those things where the

398
01:14:14,916 --> 01:14:16,125
business case is super

399
01:14:16,125 --> 01:14:19,000
strong. The return on investment is

400
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:22,375
there. It's clear, but again,

401
01:14:22,375 --> 01:14:23,750
it's just not, I don't think

402
01:14:23,750 --> 01:14:26,375
it's exciting. It doesn't excite people.

403
01:14:27,416 --> 01:14:28,875
And I think you're right. I

404
01:14:28,875 --> 01:14:30,250
think it's not like that out

405
01:14:30,250 --> 01:14:32,666
of a project, you want to get the money

406
01:14:32,666 --> 01:14:33,375
and then you want to get

407
01:14:33,375 --> 01:14:34,916
the results. And that's the

408
01:14:35,291 --> 01:14:38,250
sexy part of doing these projects. But

409
01:14:38,500 --> 01:14:41,500
it's almost like, I like to do an

410
01:14:41,500 --> 01:14:42,625
analogy. It's almost like

411
01:14:42,625 --> 01:14:45,333
getting fit, right? You want to start

412
01:14:45,333 --> 01:14:46,666
where we're not in shape,

413
01:14:46,750 --> 01:14:48,333
like say for me, not in shape.

414
01:14:48,708 --> 01:14:51,250
I start to eat right and get better and

415
01:14:51,250 --> 01:14:52,333
work out. That's the

416
01:14:52,333 --> 01:14:54,291
work. That's not the fun part.

417
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:58,583
But when I show my results six months, a

418
01:14:58,583 --> 01:15:01,125
year later, then people are like, "Ooh,

419
01:15:01,125 --> 01:15:02,541
what did you do?" And then you start

420
01:15:02,541 --> 01:15:03,958
talking about the work and people are

421
01:15:03,958 --> 01:15:05,833
like, "I don't really want

422
01:15:05,833 --> 01:15:08,916
to know." I had to do meal prep and I had

423
01:15:08,916 --> 01:15:10,000
to do this and I had to

424
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:11,541
work out and it was hard.

425
01:15:12,166 --> 01:15:14,708
I got injured. There's all that stuff in

426
01:15:14,708 --> 01:15:15,500
the middle. I feel like

427
01:15:15,500 --> 01:15:16,958
that's the project management

428
01:15:16,958 --> 01:15:21,083
of managing a grant. So to introduce

429
01:15:21,083 --> 01:15:23,250
people, the audience is listening to

430
01:15:23,250 --> 01:15:25,333
this. Can we just talk

431
01:15:25,333 --> 01:15:27,416
about if, once say you get a grant, let's

432
01:15:27,416 --> 01:15:28,625
just look at an average. I

433
01:15:28,625 --> 01:15:30,333
know each grant is unique

434
01:15:30,375 --> 01:15:32,583
itself. Can we just talk about what

435
01:15:32,583 --> 01:15:34,208
should be the first steps?

436
01:15:34,208 --> 01:15:35,583
If you get a grant or even an

437
01:15:35,583 --> 01:15:37,208
investment where there's some sort of

438
01:15:37,208 --> 01:15:38,666
reporting or requirements,

439
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:40,958
what should be the first step that

440
01:15:41,291 --> 01:15:44,000
ocean leaders take to ensure that they

441
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,458
are covering their basis

442
01:15:45,458 --> 01:15:46,875
and they can lay it out

443
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,750
all in front of them? Yeah, that's a

444
01:15:49,750 --> 01:15:52,208
really good question. So typically, I

445
01:15:52,208 --> 01:15:53,875
would say more often

446
01:15:53,875 --> 01:15:55,750
than not, what happens is you get the

447
01:15:55,750 --> 01:15:57,166
email. Congratulations,

448
01:15:57,166 --> 01:15:58,875
you have been selected for

449
01:15:58,875 --> 01:16:01,750
a grant. Yeah. Then you close your laptop

450
01:16:01,750 --> 01:16:02,583
and you have a beer and

451
01:16:02,583 --> 01:16:03,583
then you celebrate for like

452
01:16:03,666 --> 01:16:08,333
three days, right? Exactly. But it's not

453
01:16:08,375 --> 01:16:10,583
quite that simple. So once you know

454
01:16:10,583 --> 01:16:11,708
you've been selected,

455
01:16:12,041 --> 01:16:14,500
typically in the pool of candidates, then

456
01:16:14,500 --> 01:16:15,958
you need to go through

457
01:16:16,125 --> 01:16:17,375
what I call the grant

458
01:16:17,375 --> 01:16:20,500
finalization process. So with the

459
01:16:20,500 --> 01:16:22,416
government, it's like finalizing the

460
01:16:22,416 --> 01:16:24,166
contribution agreement or

461
01:16:24,250 --> 01:16:27,458
you know, finalizing the specifics of the

462
01:16:27,458 --> 01:16:32,125
grant. And so that can be a

463
01:16:32,125 --> 01:16:34,291
process. It depends on the

464
01:16:34,291 --> 01:16:37,083
agency. It depends too, like a lot of

465
01:16:37,083 --> 01:16:39,291
times, I would say more often than not,

466
01:16:39,291 --> 01:16:40,541
the lag time between

467
01:16:40,541 --> 01:16:44,791
when proposals are submitted and when the

468
01:16:44,791 --> 01:16:46,375
announcement is and

469
01:16:46,375 --> 01:16:48,583
then when the contribution

470
01:16:48,666 --> 01:16:50,958
gets finalized, it can be pretty

471
01:16:50,958 --> 01:16:54,375
significant. So that is a process in

472
01:16:54,375 --> 01:16:56,166
itself where a lot of times

473
01:16:56,166 --> 01:16:58,208
it's just providing clarifying

474
01:16:58,250 --> 01:17:01,166
information. So in my experience, a lot

475
01:17:01,166 --> 01:17:02,666
of times it relates to the

476
01:17:02,708 --> 01:17:05,291
budget. So you know, when you submitted

477
01:17:05,291 --> 01:17:06,375
your budget, you said

478
01:17:07,375 --> 01:17:11,916
employee 1234. Well, okay, then

479
01:17:12,083 --> 01:17:14,583
they want to know what is the salary of

480
01:17:14,625 --> 01:17:17,791
employee 123 and four, which

481
01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:20,083
code do they fall into? Like

482
01:17:20,083 --> 01:17:23,041
what is their job category? Sometimes

483
01:17:23,041 --> 01:17:24,291
they need that information

484
01:17:24,291 --> 01:17:26,291
or you know, it's like really

485
01:17:26,333 --> 01:17:29,250
just clarifying like, okay, you have this

486
01:17:29,250 --> 01:17:30,625
amount of subcontractors,

487
01:17:30,625 --> 01:17:33,500
was there a fair process? Or

488
01:17:33,666 --> 01:17:35,791
like, did you, how did you determine that

489
01:17:35,791 --> 01:17:37,250
this contractor is going

490
01:17:37,250 --> 01:17:39,291
to be the one performing X,

491
01:17:39,333 --> 01:17:42,875
Y, or Z? It can be details on that.

492
01:17:42,875 --> 01:17:44,250
Sometimes it's even like

493
01:17:44,250 --> 01:17:45,750
if you have a line item for

494
01:17:45,750 --> 01:17:48,000
materials and supplies for one grant,

495
01:17:48,375 --> 01:17:50,833
they're like, okay, so what

496
01:17:50,875 --> 01:17:51,958
are you going to spend this

497
01:17:51,958 --> 01:17:54,541
$2,000 on? So it's like, all right, well,

498
01:17:54,541 --> 01:17:56,583
I'm going to buy 10 pens.

499
01:17:57,625 --> 01:17:59,583
Like line items in a budget, you got to

500
01:17:59,583 --> 01:18:00,833
put it all out, lay it all out.

501
01:18:00,833 --> 01:18:05,333
Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, that's kind

502
01:18:05,333 --> 01:18:07,416
of if I'm preparing a

503
01:18:07,416 --> 01:18:08,916
proposal. Now, I always,

504
01:18:08,958 --> 01:18:11,250
I always do that now, because I know that

505
01:18:11,708 --> 01:18:13,708
eventually they're gonna ask. I mean,

506
01:18:14,166 --> 01:18:16,666
not necessarily again, it's so dependent

507
01:18:16,666 --> 01:18:18,750
on the grant, the person

508
01:18:18,750 --> 01:18:20,208
administering the grant as well

509
01:18:20,208 --> 01:18:22,750
can, can definitely change things. But

510
01:18:23,208 --> 01:18:24,708
yeah, typically, it's just like

511
01:18:24,708 --> 01:18:26,083
clarifying, you know,

512
01:18:26,125 --> 01:18:29,208
exactly what you're spending the money on

513
01:18:29,208 --> 01:18:30,000
or intend to spend the

514
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,166
money on and, and also the

515
01:18:32,166 --> 01:18:36,083
activities like what, you know, are the

516
01:18:36,166 --> 01:18:37,541
sometimes the last, you know,

517
01:18:37,541 --> 01:18:38,750
do you want to adjust things

518
01:18:38,750 --> 01:18:41,791
because of the leg time? Sometimes that's

519
01:18:41,791 --> 01:18:43,458
not an option. If the money

520
01:18:43,458 --> 01:18:44,458
has to be spent by the end of

521
01:18:44,458 --> 01:18:46,666
fiscal and, you know, things didn't get

522
01:18:46,666 --> 01:18:47,750
finalized till November,

523
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:51,166
well, too bad, so sad, you got to,

524
01:18:51,291 --> 01:18:53,541
you got to go because the money has to be

525
01:18:53,541 --> 01:18:55,666
spent. But if there is

526
01:18:55,666 --> 01:18:57,375
flexibility, they, you know,

527
01:18:57,541 --> 01:19:00,291
sometimes that's an option. And then

528
01:19:00,291 --> 01:19:02,916
sometimes they have the funder has

529
01:19:02,916 --> 01:19:04,500
constraints on if the

530
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,750
grant runs across multiple fiscal years.

531
01:19:08,208 --> 01:19:09,291
Sometimes they can say,

532
01:19:09,291 --> 01:19:11,416
well, we actually, you know,

533
01:19:12,250 --> 01:19:13,750
you know, we understand that you want

534
01:19:13,750 --> 01:19:16,125
900,000 over three years, but

535
01:19:16,791 --> 01:19:20,000
we, based on our accounting,

536
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:21,958
we want to give you X amount in year one,

537
01:19:22,208 --> 01:19:23,583
X amount in year two, X

538
01:19:23,583 --> 01:19:24,625
amount in year three. So

539
01:19:25,125 --> 01:19:28,166
it's a lot of back and forth to try to

540
01:19:28,208 --> 01:19:29,833
kind of reach that middle

541
01:19:29,833 --> 01:19:31,083
where everyone is happy with

542
01:19:31,500 --> 01:19:34,250
how to proceed. Yeah, I think that's

543
01:19:34,250 --> 01:19:35,833
interesting. And one thing that really

544
01:19:36,500 --> 01:19:38,333
caught my ear was you

545
01:19:38,333 --> 01:19:39,916
saying having almost like having it

546
01:19:39,916 --> 01:19:42,708
ready, even as you do the proposal, just

547
01:19:42,708 --> 01:19:43,333
in case, like almost

548
01:19:43,333 --> 01:19:45,791
having templates ready, where if you have

549
01:19:45,791 --> 01:19:47,208
to buy specific items,

550
01:19:47,208 --> 01:19:48,375
they're already there, because now

551
01:19:48,375 --> 01:19:50,333
you're not repeating it for the next

552
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:52,125
grant. And you said, as you

553
01:19:52,125 --> 01:19:53,791
said, every grant is different,

554
01:19:53,791 --> 01:19:55,541
but there's probably going to be line

555
01:19:55,541 --> 01:19:56,916
items that you have to put together if

556
01:19:56,916 --> 01:19:57,583
you already know what

557
01:19:57,583 --> 01:19:59,291
you're going to be spending it on as

558
01:19:59,291 --> 01:20:00,791
you're thinking about the proposal,

559
01:20:01,250 --> 01:20:01,875
because you're doing

560
01:20:01,875 --> 01:20:03,000
that through the budget. You should be

561
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:04,041
doing that through the budget anyway.

562
01:20:04,041 --> 01:20:04,833
You're not just picking,

563
01:20:04,875 --> 01:20:06,125
like when you do a budget proposal,

564
01:20:06,125 --> 01:20:06,791
you're not just picking a

565
01:20:06,791 --> 01:20:08,625
number out of thin air. You're

566
01:20:08,625 --> 01:20:11,750
putting together everything that's done.

567
01:20:12,750 --> 01:20:15,791
When you look at projects

568
01:20:15,791 --> 01:20:18,041
like this, as you get the grant

569
01:20:18,041 --> 01:20:20,791
start to kind of do all your templates

570
01:20:20,791 --> 01:20:22,750
and use all the different

571
01:20:22,750 --> 01:20:23,750
things that you're supposed to

572
01:20:23,750 --> 01:20:27,208
be using, how much time should you

573
01:20:27,250 --> 01:20:29,083
allocate to managing the

574
01:20:29,083 --> 01:20:31,666
project when you look at the entire

575
01:20:31,666 --> 01:20:33,708
grant? And is it, I'm going to add to

576
01:20:33,708 --> 01:20:35,375
that, is it done in the

577
01:20:35,375 --> 01:20:38,125
proposal to make sure that that time

578
01:20:38,125 --> 01:20:41,666
is accounted for within the grant? Yeah,

579
01:20:41,666 --> 01:20:42,916
that's a great question. It's

580
01:20:42,916 --> 01:20:44,291
really hard to say because it

581
01:20:44,333 --> 01:20:48,541
depends so much on the grant, how many

582
01:20:48,541 --> 01:20:49,958
partners there are. So if

583
01:20:49,958 --> 01:20:52,625
you have a grant where you're

584
01:20:53,541 --> 01:20:56,708
relying on co-PIs or like

585
01:20:56,708 --> 01:20:58,958
co-investigators or co-partners to

586
01:20:58,958 --> 01:21:01,208
deliver elements of the work

587
01:21:01,500 --> 01:21:03,125
and they're receiving money, like that

588
01:21:03,125 --> 01:21:03,708
adds a lot of

589
01:21:03,708 --> 01:21:07,875
administrative overhead to it as well. It

590
01:21:07,916 --> 01:21:10,291
depends on the reporting requirements of

591
01:21:10,291 --> 01:21:12,041
the fund. So a lot of

592
01:21:13,250 --> 01:21:15,500
grants have an annual report.

593
01:21:16,208 --> 01:21:19,583
Some grants have biannual and some grants

594
01:21:19,583 --> 01:21:21,166
have quarterly. So that

595
01:21:21,250 --> 01:21:23,166
also influences the amount of

596
01:21:23,166 --> 01:21:26,791
time. And then it depends, like the

597
01:21:26,791 --> 01:21:29,916
subject matter can also influence that.

598
01:21:29,916 --> 01:21:31,250
Are you, you know, if

599
01:21:31,250 --> 01:21:33,458
you're in a university, how much, you

600
01:21:33,458 --> 01:21:36,041
know, do you require research ethics? Do

601
01:21:36,041 --> 01:21:37,791
you require research

602
01:21:38,291 --> 01:21:41,583
you know, are you relying on ordering

603
01:21:41,583 --> 01:21:44,500
equipment like tags? There's a lot of

604
01:21:44,500 --> 01:21:46,458
things to come, that

605
01:21:46,750 --> 01:21:50,458
come into play. But I definitely think

606
01:21:50,458 --> 01:21:53,083
it's worth, it's absolutely worth

607
01:21:53,083 --> 01:21:54,583
including in your grant

608
01:21:54,583 --> 01:21:57,750
proposal because either, you know,

609
01:21:57,791 --> 01:22:00,041
allocating that line item or

610
01:22:00,041 --> 01:22:02,166
that budget amount to a current

611
01:22:02,166 --> 01:22:06,500
employee or someone external like Pisces

612
01:22:06,916 --> 01:22:08,375
or, you know, like having

613
01:22:08,375 --> 01:22:10,333
that kind of tucked away in

614
01:22:10,333 --> 01:22:12,666
your budget, I think is really, really

615
01:22:12,666 --> 01:22:15,875
important and really helps

616
01:22:15,875 --> 01:22:18,125
the project move forward.

617
01:22:18,625 --> 01:22:21,541
Yeah, no, I totally, I totally get that

618
01:22:21,541 --> 01:22:23,083
because having all that

619
01:22:23,083 --> 01:22:24,791
organized really helps, right? And

620
01:22:24,791 --> 01:22:26,458
knowing what you're going to allocate so

621
01:22:26,458 --> 01:22:27,541
you're not spending all

622
01:22:27,541 --> 01:22:28,750
that extra time, especially if

623
01:22:28,750 --> 01:22:29,916
you don't have a plan down and you do

624
01:22:29,916 --> 01:22:31,416
your work and everything, all of a sudden

625
01:22:31,791 --> 01:22:33,166
dates come up like, "Hey, where's my

626
01:22:33,166 --> 01:22:34,333
reporter?" And then you're

627
01:22:34,333 --> 01:22:35,458
doing it last minute, you're not

628
01:22:35,458 --> 01:22:38,500
doing a good job. And that speaks to the

629
01:22:38,500 --> 01:22:40,125
relationship you have

630
01:22:40,375 --> 01:22:41,625
with, let's say, the

631
01:22:41,625 --> 01:22:44,125
fundraiser or the agency that granted you

632
01:22:44,375 --> 01:22:46,916
that fund because you want

633
01:22:46,916 --> 01:22:48,416
to build that relationship

634
01:22:48,958 --> 01:22:51,666
with the agency. You may have tried, you

635
01:22:51,666 --> 01:22:52,916
may have put in work to

636
01:22:52,916 --> 01:22:55,000
build it before, right? So,

637
01:22:55,416 --> 01:22:57,375
before you put in the proposal, you're

638
01:22:57,375 --> 01:22:58,500
talking to agencies like,

639
01:22:58,500 --> 01:22:59,791
"What are you looking for

640
01:22:59,791 --> 01:23:01,750
in terms of, you know, giving out grants

641
01:23:01,750 --> 01:23:02,208
and what type of

642
01:23:02,208 --> 01:23:03,916
organizations or individuals and

643
01:23:03,916 --> 01:23:05,708
things like that?" The relationship

644
01:23:05,916 --> 01:23:07,750
matters throughout that,

645
01:23:08,541 --> 01:23:10,250
not only the grant experience,

646
01:23:10,250 --> 01:23:14,125
but even after to get more. What does

647
01:23:14,583 --> 01:23:15,791
like a healthy

648
01:23:16,291 --> 01:23:19,000
multi-year funder relationship

649
01:23:19,375 --> 01:23:24,125
look like from a project side? Yeah. So,

650
01:23:24,125 --> 01:23:24,875
I think it's really

651
01:23:24,875 --> 01:23:27,500
important to have a main point of

652
01:23:27,500 --> 01:23:30,375
contact, someone who is the liaison with

653
01:23:30,375 --> 01:23:31,458
the funder who can

654
01:23:31,458 --> 01:23:32,458
build that relationship.

655
01:23:33,125 --> 01:23:36,916
And ultimately, transparency is key.

656
01:23:36,958 --> 01:23:40,041
Like, being honest, like, you know, if

657
01:23:40,041 --> 01:23:40,708
you're not going to be

658
01:23:40,708 --> 01:23:43,000
able to spend your money, then flag that

659
01:23:43,041 --> 01:23:44,416
early. Don't wait until

660
01:23:44,625 --> 01:23:46,541
March 25th and be like, "Oh,

661
01:23:46,583 --> 01:23:48,500
just kidding. I can't spend it." You

662
01:23:48,500 --> 01:23:50,125
know, being honest,

663
01:23:50,125 --> 01:23:51,875
transparent and responsive,

664
01:23:52,375 --> 01:23:53,916
there's going to be a lot of questions

665
01:23:53,916 --> 01:23:55,375
that come up, a lot of

666
01:23:55,375 --> 01:23:56,291
questions. You're going to repeat

667
01:23:56,291 --> 01:23:59,625
yourself a lot. So, you know, setting up

668
01:23:59,625 --> 01:24:00,416
the systems at the

669
01:24:00,416 --> 01:24:01,625
beginning of the project,

670
01:24:01,916 --> 01:24:03,833
you know, recording information like all

671
01:24:03,833 --> 01:24:04,791
the students,

672
01:24:06,208 --> 01:24:08,458
collaborators, partners, etc.,

673
01:24:08,750 --> 01:24:11,000
having all that information somewhere is

674
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:12,291
really important so that

675
01:24:12,291 --> 01:24:13,625
when you do get questions,

676
01:24:13,708 --> 01:24:17,250
you're not like, "Wow, how am I going to

677
01:24:17,333 --> 01:24:18,333
figure this out?" And then

678
01:24:18,333 --> 01:24:19,500
going through your emails,

679
01:24:19,500 --> 01:24:20,875
trying to figure out who's who and

680
01:24:20,875 --> 01:24:22,333
whatnot. Having it all in

681
01:24:22,333 --> 01:24:23,500
one place, you just open the

682
01:24:23,500 --> 01:24:25,166
spreadsheet and you're like, "Oh, okay.

683
01:24:25,208 --> 01:24:26,583
Yeah. Here's the

684
01:24:26,583 --> 01:24:27,958
information you need. Let me know if

685
01:24:27,958 --> 01:24:31,250
you need anything else." I think for me,

686
01:24:31,250 --> 01:24:32,000
that's been the most

687
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:33,500
successful is just, you know,

688
01:24:33,500 --> 01:24:35,583
being honest and being responsive and

689
01:24:36,083 --> 01:24:38,041
getting them the information

690
01:24:38,041 --> 01:24:40,250
they need in a timely matter

691
01:24:40,250 --> 01:24:43,625
is super important because it can be

692
01:24:43,625 --> 01:24:45,208
frustrating to receive those emails

693
01:24:45,208 --> 01:24:45,625
because you're like,

694
01:24:45,666 --> 01:24:49,208
"Oh, okay. Now, again, or, you know, I

695
01:24:49,208 --> 01:24:51,458
already submitted this or what have you."

696
01:24:52,083 --> 01:24:54,000
But I think the thing to remember is

697
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:55,375
they're often working on,

698
01:24:55,791 --> 01:24:56,958
like, you're not their only

699
01:24:56,958 --> 01:25:01,041
file. So they're sending out emails to

700
01:25:01,083 --> 01:25:03,125
like, I have no idea what

701
01:25:03,416 --> 01:25:04,541
their caseloads are like,

702
01:25:04,958 --> 01:25:08,000
but multiple people and, of course, you

703
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:09,416
know, things get lost. And

704
01:25:09,958 --> 01:25:11,541
with some of the programs,

705
01:25:11,541 --> 01:25:14,041
you know, you're sending multiple, you're

706
01:25:14,083 --> 01:25:15,500
sending back and

707
01:25:15,500 --> 01:25:16,791
forth multiple documents.

708
01:25:16,833 --> 01:25:19,166
Like, you know, sometimes things get lost

709
01:25:20,125 --> 01:25:21,166
in translation. So I

710
01:25:21,166 --> 01:25:22,708
think just, you know, having

711
01:25:23,250 --> 01:25:26,125
patience and empathy is

712
01:25:26,125 --> 01:25:27,250
really important as well.

713
01:25:27,541 --> 01:25:29,250
And I guess what happens, like you

714
01:25:29,250 --> 01:25:30,208
mentioned one thing where

715
01:25:30,208 --> 01:25:31,333
it's like, if you can't spend the

716
01:25:31,333 --> 01:25:32,916
money, you want to flag it earlier. So if

717
01:25:32,916 --> 01:25:33,833
you're doing your budget

718
01:25:33,833 --> 01:25:35,875
and you realize, "Oh, okay. So

719
01:25:35,875 --> 01:25:37,250
this isn't going to come through

720
01:25:37,791 --> 01:25:39,208
depending on timelines and when you

721
01:25:39,208 --> 01:25:39,916
receive the grant and

722
01:25:39,916 --> 01:25:41,458
everything like that." But what if

723
01:25:41,458 --> 01:25:43,375
something goes wrong? Like there's a

724
01:25:43,375 --> 01:25:44,666
delay in the project for

725
01:25:44,875 --> 01:25:46,958
weather or because in the field or

726
01:25:46,958 --> 01:25:47,916
something doesn't come

727
01:25:47,916 --> 01:25:49,291
through that as you expected it

728
01:25:49,291 --> 01:25:51,708
to come through, or maybe you missed a

729
01:25:51,708 --> 01:25:54,083
milestone for whatever reason,

730
01:25:55,333 --> 01:25:56,500
or you had to change direction

731
01:25:56,500 --> 01:25:58,041
because the study didn't really work out

732
01:25:58,041 --> 01:25:59,541
the way you expected. We know that

733
01:25:59,541 --> 01:26:00,500
happens quite a bit,

734
01:26:00,500 --> 01:26:02,541
whether it's social studies or natural

735
01:26:02,541 --> 01:26:04,208
sciences, right? Social

736
01:26:04,208 --> 01:26:05,291
sciences and natural science.

737
01:26:05,750 --> 01:26:07,208
How do you bring that up to the funder?

738
01:26:09,208 --> 01:26:12,875
Yeah, that's a good question. So, you

739
01:26:12,875 --> 01:26:14,000
know, bring it up early

740
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:15,666
and be honest. Say, you know,

741
01:26:15,750 --> 01:26:17,125
like, "Look, I understand we're supposed

742
01:26:17,125 --> 01:26:19,916
to have three events by the

743
01:26:19,916 --> 01:26:23,666
end of fall 2026." You know,

744
01:26:23,666 --> 01:26:27,958
due to the fact that, I don't know,

745
01:26:28,208 --> 01:26:30,208
whatever the circumstances are, you know,

746
01:26:30,208 --> 01:26:32,166
due to the fact that

747
01:26:32,583 --> 01:26:36,083
we've had trouble onboarding for this

748
01:26:36,083 --> 01:26:40,500
position or there's been a delay in x, y,

749
01:26:40,500 --> 01:26:41,875
or z. You know, just

750
01:26:42,416 --> 01:26:44,791
you know, being honest with like, "This

751
01:26:44,791 --> 01:26:45,958
is why it's happening and

752
01:26:45,958 --> 01:26:47,250
this is the solution." And I

753
01:26:47,250 --> 01:26:49,166
think that's the key. Not just saying

754
01:26:49,166 --> 01:26:51,000
like, "Oh, we have a problem

755
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:52,750
here," you know, raising the

756
01:26:52,750 --> 01:26:54,666
alarm bells, but also saying, "We

757
01:26:54,666 --> 01:26:55,916
understand that we're not

758
01:26:55,916 --> 01:26:57,958
going to hit our milestone, but

759
01:26:58,166 --> 01:27:00,750
we are confident we will hit it by March

760
01:27:00,750 --> 01:27:03,583
31st, 2027," or "We'll

761
01:27:03,666 --> 01:27:05,500
have you." So, just kind of,

762
01:27:05,541 --> 01:27:08,458
you know, making sure that you have a

763
01:27:08,833 --> 01:27:09,958
solution in mind. And if

764
01:27:09,958 --> 01:27:11,041
you don't and you're really

765
01:27:11,041 --> 01:27:12,833
stumped, you could say, you know, "I'd

766
01:27:12,833 --> 01:27:14,041
really love to meet to

767
01:27:14,041 --> 01:27:17,333
talk about how we can proceed

768
01:27:17,333 --> 01:27:20,583
because I'm not sure what to do." I mean,

769
01:27:20,583 --> 01:27:21,666
that's what they're there

770
01:27:21,666 --> 01:27:23,833
for, is to help you help the

771
01:27:23,833 --> 01:27:26,958
project succeed and help you succeed as

772
01:27:26,958 --> 01:27:28,500
well. So, just leaning on them for

773
01:27:28,500 --> 01:27:30,500
support and, you know,

774
01:27:31,875 --> 01:27:33,791
sometimes it's like, "Okay, well, that's

775
01:27:33,791 --> 01:27:35,416
not going to work, so we want to

776
01:27:35,416 --> 01:27:36,833
transition the money to,

777
01:27:37,375 --> 01:27:39,708
say, another line item or what have you,"

778
01:27:39,708 --> 01:27:41,625
and a lot of grants have a

779
01:27:41,625 --> 01:27:42,833
variance that you're allowed

780
01:27:42,833 --> 01:27:44,500
to move things without getting

781
01:27:44,500 --> 01:27:47,416
permission. And if you're over that

782
01:27:47,416 --> 01:27:48,916
variance, then just reaching out

783
01:27:48,916 --> 01:27:50,041
and saying, you know, "This is what we'd

784
01:27:50,041 --> 01:27:51,791
like to do and this is why,

785
01:27:51,875 --> 01:27:55,166
you know, can you approve this

786
01:27:55,166 --> 01:27:57,916
so that we can move forward?" So, if

787
01:27:57,916 --> 01:27:58,666
you're going with something

788
01:27:58,666 --> 01:28:01,500
that changed, have at least one

789
01:28:01,500 --> 01:28:03,875
solution that you can do based within the

790
01:28:03,875 --> 01:28:05,666
rules, of course, or if you

791
01:28:05,666 --> 01:28:06,833
need like an exception, then

792
01:28:06,916 --> 01:28:08,500
presented, be like, "We could do this,

793
01:28:08,500 --> 01:28:09,458
but we'll need you your

794
01:28:09,458 --> 01:28:11,208
approval to do that," or "I wanted

795
01:28:11,208 --> 01:28:12,583
to run it by you," or something like

796
01:28:12,583 --> 01:28:15,250
that, right? Yeah, for sure. And keeping

797
01:28:15,250 --> 01:28:16,625
them in the loop is,

798
01:28:17,625 --> 01:28:20,250
you know, there's no harm in that. Like,

799
01:28:20,250 --> 01:28:22,250
if you're, even if you're moving money

800
01:28:22,250 --> 01:28:23,083
around that's within

801
01:28:23,083 --> 01:28:25,750
the variance, just letting them know, you

802
01:28:25,750 --> 01:28:27,166
know, if you're unsure,

803
01:28:27,166 --> 01:28:28,500
then it's better to, you know,

804
01:28:28,541 --> 01:28:31,666
better to be safe than trying to untangle

805
01:28:31,666 --> 01:28:33,458
something down the

806
01:28:33,458 --> 01:28:34,750
road. Well, and of course,

807
01:28:34,750 --> 01:28:37,666
things change, you know, items get more

808
01:28:37,666 --> 01:28:39,041
expensive, you know, sometimes you're

809
01:28:39,041 --> 01:28:39,791
running the proposal a

810
01:28:39,791 --> 01:28:42,666
year before you're doing the project. You

811
01:28:42,666 --> 01:28:43,500
never know when a tear is

812
01:28:43,500 --> 01:28:44,750
going to pop up these days

813
01:28:44,958 --> 01:28:46,541
or not, right? And that could affect your

814
01:28:46,541 --> 01:28:48,166
project. And you just, so

815
01:28:48,166 --> 01:28:49,416
you might have to shift some

816
01:28:49,416 --> 01:28:50,875
things around and you can just say, "Due

817
01:28:50,875 --> 01:28:52,166
to this change, we're

818
01:28:52,166 --> 01:28:53,833
shifting this money and keeping

819
01:28:53,833 --> 01:28:55,500
them in the loop." Now, we know what we

820
01:28:55,500 --> 01:28:56,916
should be doing. What do

821
01:28:56,916 --> 01:28:59,500
you find project leaders do

822
01:28:59,541 --> 01:29:03,041
that could be wrong, you know, about how

823
01:29:03,041 --> 01:29:04,458
they communicate with the funder?

824
01:29:07,041 --> 01:29:08,291
Because there's one thing that kind of

825
01:29:08,291 --> 01:29:11,500
stands out that people might

826
01:29:11,500 --> 01:29:13,666
do or might not do, you know,

827
01:29:13,666 --> 01:29:16,500
to help that relationship along or that

828
01:29:16,541 --> 01:29:18,166
keep it transparent and things like that.

829
01:29:19,708 --> 01:29:24,416
Yeah, I think ignoring them, not

830
01:29:24,416 --> 01:29:26,750
intentionally. I don't think it's ever

831
01:29:26,750 --> 01:29:27,958
intentional, but you know,

832
01:29:28,125 --> 01:29:30,375
emails pile up and like, you know, get

833
01:29:30,375 --> 01:29:32,125
busy. Yeah, get busy,

834
01:29:32,125 --> 01:29:35,750
forget. And I think, you know,

835
01:29:37,166 --> 01:29:39,291
like having different passing them to

836
01:29:39,291 --> 01:29:40,375
different people can

837
01:29:40,416 --> 01:29:43,125
also, you know, yeah,

838
01:29:43,750 --> 01:29:46,333
be hard because then they could, you

839
01:29:46,333 --> 01:29:48,750
know, on both ends, because then you're

840
01:29:48,791 --> 01:29:49,708
constantly talking to

841
01:29:49,708 --> 01:29:51,375
a different person, you need to start

842
01:29:51,375 --> 01:29:52,250
from the beginning and

843
01:29:52,250 --> 01:29:54,750
then, you know, on both sides.

844
01:29:57,208 --> 01:29:58,750
But I think those are kind of the main

845
01:29:58,750 --> 01:30:01,000
things. I think it's just

846
01:30:01,500 --> 01:30:04,041
time is always the culprit.

847
01:30:05,416 --> 01:30:07,666
And sometimes they're reaching out to you

848
01:30:08,250 --> 01:30:11,500
being like, "I need an answer now." And

849
01:30:13,458 --> 01:30:15,458
yeah, if you have to dig, you don't

850
01:30:15,458 --> 01:30:16,916
always have the answer now.

851
01:30:17,208 --> 01:30:19,333
Yes, true. True. And sometimes

852
01:30:19,458 --> 01:30:20,958
it's not necessarily anybody's fault.

853
01:30:20,958 --> 01:30:22,541
It's just some things happen,

854
01:30:22,541 --> 01:30:24,583
right? And like, if you think

855
01:30:24,583 --> 01:30:26,083
about, I'm thinking like nonprofit

856
01:30:26,833 --> 01:30:28,750
people, academics and

857
01:30:28,750 --> 01:30:30,708
startups, you know, as they're

858
01:30:30,791 --> 01:30:32,416
trying to do everything and they're

859
01:30:32,416 --> 01:30:33,083
trying, you know, the

860
01:30:33,125 --> 01:30:34,791
multiple projects on the go,

861
01:30:36,083 --> 01:30:37,750
they're trying to lead everything. And if

862
01:30:37,791 --> 01:30:39,125
they're not able to do that, maybe

863
01:30:39,125 --> 01:30:40,875
designate someone to

864
01:30:41,125 --> 01:30:42,833
the organization. And as you said, the

865
01:30:42,833 --> 01:30:44,291
person that you're dealing with at the

866
01:30:44,291 --> 01:30:46,125
granting side or vice

867
01:30:46,125 --> 01:30:48,583
versa is not new every single time. So

868
01:30:48,583 --> 01:30:49,291
you don't have to repeat

869
01:30:49,291 --> 01:30:50,708
yourself and go through that. And

870
01:30:50,708 --> 01:30:52,791
they have the history, you know, around

871
01:30:52,791 --> 01:30:54,708
that, which I think is

872
01:30:54,708 --> 01:30:58,916
really important. And I think,

873
01:30:58,916 --> 01:31:02,208
you know, when we talk about the spending

874
01:31:02,208 --> 01:31:05,041
of the grant and making sure you're

875
01:31:05,041 --> 01:31:07,750
hitting that timeline,

876
01:31:07,750 --> 01:31:11,166
before fiscal year and end of fiscal is

877
01:31:11,166 --> 01:31:12,250
really important to a lot.

878
01:31:12,250 --> 01:31:13,333
I know Canadian government

879
01:31:13,333 --> 01:31:15,583
end of fiscal is March 31st and

880
01:31:15,875 --> 01:31:17,125
everything has to be done

881
01:31:17,125 --> 01:31:18,750
before that date or else

882
01:31:19,125 --> 01:31:21,500
you can't put that through. And it's a

883
01:31:21,500 --> 01:31:23,166
hard deadline. I remember

884
01:31:23,166 --> 01:31:24,000
working at the government

885
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:26,083
and that was panic time a lot of the

886
01:31:26,083 --> 01:31:27,791
times for us to try to get

887
01:31:27,791 --> 01:31:29,541
stuff through and hire people and

888
01:31:30,041 --> 01:31:33,375
all that kind of stuff. But like, why is

889
01:31:33,500 --> 01:31:35,166
spending on a schedule

890
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:37,708
sometimes so much harder in practice

891
01:31:37,750 --> 01:31:39,583
than it sounds on paper? And you look at

892
01:31:39,583 --> 01:31:40,250
it, your spreadsheet,

893
01:31:40,250 --> 01:31:40,916
you're like, Oh, yeah, yeah,

894
01:31:40,916 --> 01:31:42,458
I got all this done. But like, what could

895
01:31:42,458 --> 01:31:43,750
come up that can make it a

896
01:31:43,750 --> 01:31:44,916
little bit more difficult

897
01:31:45,500 --> 01:31:47,083
that people may not anticipate at the

898
01:31:47,083 --> 01:31:48,875
beginning? Yeah, I think

899
01:31:48,875 --> 01:31:51,250
there's a lot of factors. So if

900
01:31:53,083 --> 01:31:56,000
the grant and spending requires hiring,

901
01:31:56,458 --> 01:31:58,416
that can be a challenging one.

902
01:31:59,666 --> 01:32:02,458
Also, like the work, you know,

903
01:32:02,458 --> 01:32:04,916
things, as we talked about things change

904
01:32:04,958 --> 01:32:07,416
and delays happen. So if

905
01:32:07,416 --> 01:32:08,916
you've got a big chunk of

906
01:32:08,916 --> 01:32:11,500
money going to a contractor to do X, Y

907
01:32:11,500 --> 01:32:13,125
and Z, and then that gets

908
01:32:13,166 --> 01:32:14,958
pushed into the next fiscal year,

909
01:32:14,958 --> 01:32:16,958
well, you know, then you're going to have

910
01:32:16,958 --> 01:32:18,375
to kind of offset that

911
01:32:18,708 --> 01:32:23,875
delay. And I think honestly,

912
01:32:23,916 --> 01:32:26,416
what happens a lot of times is the

913
01:32:26,416 --> 01:32:30,458
initial leg in the proposal grant

914
01:32:30,791 --> 01:32:33,000
writing, like grant submission,

915
01:32:33,041 --> 01:32:35,458
and then the actual like start date of

916
01:32:35,458 --> 01:32:37,500
the grant. Because sometimes

917
01:32:37,500 --> 01:32:41,458
you could have a solid eight

918
01:32:41,458 --> 01:32:44,791
months in year one, based on what you

919
01:32:44,833 --> 01:32:46,458
when you believe the grant will start.

920
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:49,083
And that can quickly

921
01:32:49,083 --> 01:32:53,666
shrink to six months, five months, four

922
01:32:53,666 --> 01:32:54,666
months, and then all of a

923
01:32:54,666 --> 01:32:56,750
sudden, say it's four months,

924
01:32:56,750 --> 01:32:58,083
and you have to spend half a million

925
01:32:58,083 --> 01:33:03,333
dollars. It's like, Oh, all right. Like,

926
01:33:04,208 --> 01:33:06,458
it's not as easy as it sounds. No, I

927
01:33:06,458 --> 01:33:09,125
mean, it depends, though, it really

928
01:33:09,125 --> 01:33:10,083
depends on the grant,

929
01:33:10,083 --> 01:33:11,625
like if you're buying equipment and that

930
01:33:11,625 --> 01:33:13,375
kind of stuff. Yeah, maybe

931
01:33:13,375 --> 01:33:14,708
it's possible. But sometimes

932
01:33:14,708 --> 01:33:17,250
there's also a leg time in, you know,

933
01:33:17,250 --> 01:33:20,333
purchasing things like, you

934
01:33:20,333 --> 01:33:23,250
know, I don't know, I can't

935
01:33:24,333 --> 01:33:28,208
I'm trying to blame. Yeah, yeah. Or like

936
01:33:28,250 --> 01:33:30,458
ocean tech, like, you know,

937
01:33:31,750 --> 01:33:33,125
yeah, there can be a leg time

938
01:33:33,166 --> 01:33:36,333
or a big one also is research vessels

939
01:33:36,333 --> 01:33:38,791
like getting time on a research vessel

940
01:33:38,791 --> 01:33:39,791
can be a challenge. And

941
01:33:39,833 --> 01:33:43,125
if you don't secure your spot, you could

942
01:33:43,125 --> 01:33:44,416
miss out on an entire field

943
01:33:44,416 --> 01:33:46,791
season. So there's kind of

944
01:33:46,833 --> 01:33:50,083
there's a lot of factors and and there's,

945
01:33:50,708 --> 01:33:51,166
you know, there's

946
01:33:51,166 --> 01:33:52,833
strategies like, you know,

947
01:33:53,625 --> 01:33:57,125
paying things ahead of time, or, you

948
01:33:57,125 --> 01:34:00,375
know, etc, which funders don't

949
01:34:00,375 --> 01:34:05,958
love. But there are sometimes

950
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:10,041
but you almost have to talk to the your

951
01:34:10,041 --> 01:34:12,041
liaison at the agency

952
01:34:12,041 --> 01:34:13,541
that's being that's funding you,

953
01:34:13,541 --> 01:34:15,916
right? To just be like, Okay, we know

954
01:34:15,916 --> 01:34:18,708
this takes six weeks for delivery. We

955
01:34:18,708 --> 01:34:20,500
need to be on the road

956
01:34:20,500 --> 01:34:23,500
or on a ship with this instrumentation in

957
01:34:23,500 --> 01:34:24,583
seven weeks. So we're

958
01:34:24,583 --> 01:34:26,083
going to order it ahead of time

959
01:34:26,083 --> 01:34:28,208
to make sure that it comes on on time.

960
01:34:28,208 --> 01:34:29,208
Right. So again, it's that

961
01:34:29,208 --> 01:34:30,875
open dialogue to just be like,

962
01:34:31,083 --> 01:34:32,541
just a heads up, you're going to see this

963
01:34:32,541 --> 01:34:35,541
spent pretty quickly because, you know,

964
01:34:35,583 --> 01:34:35,791
you're going to see this, you know, this is a
process that you're going to be doing. And

965
01:34:35,791 --> 01:34:37,541
you're going to be doing a lot of research vessels going out or whatever

966
01:34:37,541 --> 01:34:38,625
the project is, and you have

967
01:34:38,625 --> 01:34:42,333
a you have a timeline to hit. Is there

968
01:34:42,333 --> 01:34:45,458
any like advice you can give

969
01:34:45,458 --> 01:34:47,166
to ensure like any practical

970
01:34:47,166 --> 01:34:50,250
tools or approaches you use, you know, to

971
01:34:50,250 --> 01:34:51,125
keep making sure you're

972
01:34:51,125 --> 01:34:52,458
spending and the timelines are

973
01:34:52,458 --> 01:34:54,208
aligned, you know, in the project as the

974
01:34:54,250 --> 01:34:57,000
project moves along? Yeah,

975
01:34:57,000 --> 01:34:58,958
well, I think one of my biggest

976
01:34:59,250 --> 01:35:01,875
strategies is in the proposal writing. So

977
01:35:01,916 --> 01:35:03,000
you know, if it's a three

978
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:04,541
year grant, for example,

979
01:35:04,916 --> 01:35:09,208
keep year one light and achievable bulk

980
01:35:09,625 --> 01:35:11,291
year two, because that's when

981
01:35:11,291 --> 01:35:13,541
a like, a bulk of the work is

982
01:35:13,541 --> 01:35:15,291
getting done, for lack of a better word

983
01:35:15,291 --> 01:35:16,875
and then keep, you know,

984
01:35:17,500 --> 01:35:20,625
keep year three light ish, like,

985
01:35:21,166 --> 01:35:23,500
heavier than year one, but like, allowing

986
01:35:23,500 --> 01:35:25,291
for some of that spillover if

987
01:35:25,291 --> 01:35:26,958
necessary, like kind of as a

988
01:35:26,958 --> 01:35:29,166
catch up. That's, you know, if it's a

989
01:35:29,166 --> 01:35:30,416
three year grant, that's sort of my

990
01:35:30,416 --> 01:35:32,791
strategy. But I think

991
01:35:33,583 --> 01:35:35,416
in terms of managing the budget, it's

992
01:35:35,416 --> 01:35:37,416
really important to look

993
01:35:37,416 --> 01:35:38,583
at it at the beginning of

994
01:35:38,583 --> 01:35:40,583
each year and say, Okay, what do I know

995
01:35:40,583 --> 01:35:41,416
for sure that is going to

996
01:35:41,416 --> 01:35:43,666
be spent this year? And so in

997
01:35:43,750 --> 01:35:45,291
in my spreadsheets, I always have

998
01:35:46,541 --> 01:35:49,583
committed or obligations column in the

999
01:35:49,583 --> 01:35:50,791
spreadsheet. So I'm like,

1000
01:35:50,791 --> 01:35:53,583
okay, well, this salary, for sure going

1001
01:35:53,583 --> 01:35:55,208
to be committed, put it

1002
01:35:55,208 --> 01:35:56,458
put that number in there,

1003
01:35:56,750 --> 01:36:00,333
you know, okay, I know that this event is

1004
01:36:00,333 --> 01:36:01,875
happening for sure, put

1005
01:36:01,875 --> 01:36:03,208
the total and you know,

1006
01:36:03,333 --> 01:36:06,250
things that you know, are are happening,

1007
01:36:06,583 --> 01:36:07,958
you know, record them there.

1008
01:36:07,958 --> 01:36:09,250
And then also as things get

1009
01:36:09,250 --> 01:36:13,208
spent, keep them keep it updated. And

1010
01:36:13,208 --> 01:36:14,916
then, you know, at the sort of six

1011
01:36:14,916 --> 01:36:16,666
months, six month mark

1012
01:36:16,958 --> 01:36:19,208
is really when you're like, Okay, can we

1013
01:36:20,583 --> 01:36:21,541
can we spend the rest of

1014
01:36:21,541 --> 01:36:22,583
this money? Is this going to

1015
01:36:22,583 --> 01:36:26,291
happen? And for some grants, there is

1016
01:36:26,291 --> 01:36:27,833
leniency, you can carry

1017
01:36:27,833 --> 01:36:29,375
forward. So then that's not a big

1018
01:36:29,375 --> 01:36:31,125
deal. But then, you know, you have to

1019
01:36:31,125 --> 01:36:32,750
keep in mind if you carry forward, you

1020
01:36:32,750 --> 01:36:33,916
still have to spend it

1021
01:36:33,916 --> 01:36:37,208
eventually. So, you know, which again, it

1022
01:36:37,208 --> 01:36:39,000
sounds it sounds ridiculous

1023
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:40,875
to say, but it can happen,

1024
01:36:40,875 --> 01:36:42,666
I think, especially in the academic

1025
01:36:42,666 --> 01:36:45,791
setting, when some researchers or

1026
01:36:45,833 --> 01:36:48,041
academics have money coming

1027
01:36:48,041 --> 01:36:50,625
from multiple sources, it kind of becomes

1028
01:36:50,625 --> 01:36:54,166
this this game of chess,

1029
01:36:54,166 --> 01:36:55,250
where you're like, okay, well,

1030
01:36:55,250 --> 01:36:58,333
this fund ends December 30, or March 31.

1031
01:36:58,458 --> 01:37:00,583
So we put this student's

1032
01:37:00,583 --> 01:37:02,750
salary there to use up that money.

1033
01:37:02,750 --> 01:37:04,375
And then, you know, you're kind of just

1034
01:37:04,750 --> 01:37:06,375
playing a game of where,

1035
01:37:06,708 --> 01:37:08,416
where money needs to be spent,

1036
01:37:08,416 --> 01:37:10,666
moving people around based on based on

1037
01:37:10,666 --> 01:37:13,291
what they're doing, and, you know, where

1038
01:37:13,291 --> 01:37:15,333
there is money to to

1039
01:37:15,375 --> 01:37:18,166
them. Like, especially for a PhD student,

1040
01:37:18,166 --> 01:37:19,000
right, because it's four

1041
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:22,500
years. So if you can, you know,

1042
01:37:22,541 --> 01:37:24,166
play around with your funding so that

1043
01:37:24,166 --> 01:37:25,750
they you know that they're going to be

1044
01:37:25,750 --> 01:37:26,791
funded all four years,

1045
01:37:26,791 --> 01:37:28,666
that's kind of the ideal scenario. But

1046
01:37:29,250 --> 01:37:30,916
it's really just keeping eyes

1047
01:37:30,916 --> 01:37:33,250
on it. And I think the hardest

1048
01:37:33,250 --> 01:37:35,625
part is that you have to do double

1049
01:37:35,625 --> 01:37:38,416
accounting, whether you're at a

1050
01:37:38,416 --> 01:37:42,708
university, an NGO or an

1051
01:37:42,750 --> 01:37:45,500
company, even like Pisces, you have your

1052
01:37:45,500 --> 01:37:46,875
accounting software, where

1053
01:37:46,875 --> 01:37:48,250
everything gets entered, where

1054
01:37:48,250 --> 01:37:50,458
people are paid, purchase orders, all

1055
01:37:50,458 --> 01:37:51,875
that sort of stuff. You

1056
01:37:51,875 --> 01:37:53,958
really, you have to have a separate,

1057
01:37:54,125 --> 01:37:56,250
in my opinion, separate spreadsheet where

1058
01:37:56,250 --> 01:37:56,958
you're tracking

1059
01:37:56,958 --> 01:38:00,250
everything, because the university

1060
01:38:01,083 --> 01:38:04,750
balance may say one thing. But you need

1061
01:38:04,750 --> 01:38:06,250
to have that spreadsheet

1062
01:38:06,250 --> 01:38:08,500
with all the the notes of what's

1063
01:38:08,541 --> 01:38:10,833
happened when especially around the end

1064
01:38:10,833 --> 01:38:12,375
of fiscal, because often

1065
01:38:12,416 --> 01:38:13,500
in the university setting,

1066
01:38:13,500 --> 01:38:15,250
what happens is there's journal entries

1067
01:38:15,541 --> 01:38:19,041
going all over the place. And sometimes

1068
01:38:19,041 --> 01:38:20,041
they don't get posted

1069
01:38:20,041 --> 01:38:22,875
until April or May. So you in your

1070
01:38:22,875 --> 01:38:24,000
spreadsheet, you need to

1071
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:26,083
say, okay, this is dated May 1,

1072
01:38:26,291 --> 01:38:28,541
but it's actually from last fiscal year.

1073
01:38:29,750 --> 01:38:30,791
And so that's really

1074
01:38:30,791 --> 01:38:31,875
important, because if you were to

1075
01:38:31,875 --> 01:38:33,708
just pull the report from the university,

1076
01:38:33,750 --> 01:38:34,625
your number is going to be

1077
01:38:34,625 --> 01:38:36,000
way different than if you

1078
01:38:36,041 --> 01:38:40,166
look at your your spreadsheet. And also

1079
01:38:40,166 --> 01:38:41,500
the advantage of taking

1080
01:38:41,958 --> 01:38:44,291
meticulous notes is that

1081
01:38:45,375 --> 01:38:47,875
in two years when the funder asks you,

1082
01:38:48,166 --> 01:38:50,500
wait, what is what's up with this

1083
01:38:50,500 --> 01:38:51,916
expense, you don't have to

1084
01:38:51,916 --> 01:38:57,333
be like, wait, memory, you can go back in

1085
01:38:57,333 --> 01:38:58,333
your spreadsheet and it's

1086
01:38:58,333 --> 01:39:01,041
there. And also other people

1087
01:39:01,083 --> 01:39:04,291
can view it as well. So it's not just in

1088
01:39:04,291 --> 01:39:05,000
someone's brain.

1089
01:39:05,666 --> 01:39:06,958
Absolutely. I think that's

1090
01:39:07,541 --> 01:39:10,458
really great advice, because, you know,

1091
01:39:10,500 --> 01:39:11,333
like you said, there's so much that

1092
01:39:11,333 --> 01:39:12,708
happens in a project,

1093
01:39:13,458 --> 01:39:17,291
you're not going to remember the thought

1094
01:39:17,291 --> 01:39:17,958
of you remembering

1095
01:39:17,958 --> 01:39:19,458
something that makes my brain

1096
01:39:19,458 --> 01:39:20,916
heard of having to remember what happened

1097
01:39:20,916 --> 01:39:22,458
like two years ago, you know, in a

1098
01:39:22,458 --> 01:39:23,250
project, especially at

1099
01:39:23,250 --> 01:39:24,583
the beginning, when it becomes such a

1100
01:39:24,583 --> 01:39:26,500
blur within that two years,

1101
01:39:26,500 --> 01:39:27,833
and you just you're focusing on

1102
01:39:27,875 --> 01:39:30,833
results. And it takes what, five minutes

1103
01:39:30,833 --> 01:39:31,791
to put in those extra

1104
01:39:31,791 --> 01:39:33,666
notes in a comment section in a

1105
01:39:33,708 --> 01:39:36,041
spreadsheet or things like that. So as

1106
01:39:36,041 --> 01:39:38,291
long as you maintain it and do it right

1107
01:39:38,291 --> 01:39:39,250
away, you can put in

1108
01:39:39,250 --> 01:39:41,083
the more detailed notes that somebody

1109
01:39:41,375 --> 01:39:42,500
questions you on something or

1110
01:39:42,500 --> 01:39:43,625
goes back and asks a question

1111
01:39:43,625 --> 01:39:45,000
like, Yeah, well, this is why we changed

1112
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:46,666
it. And I think that that

1113
01:39:46,666 --> 01:39:49,250
makes like, like perfect sense.

1114
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:52,000
You get a lot of great tips in this

1115
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:52,833
episode already. I'm

1116
01:39:52,833 --> 01:39:53,958
gonna ask you for one more.

1117
01:39:54,416 --> 01:39:57,375
I hope that's okay. Yeah, there's a

1118
01:39:57,416 --> 01:39:59,833
there's got to be a mindset shift from

1119
01:39:59,833 --> 01:40:02,500
grant writer to grant

1120
01:40:02,500 --> 01:40:05,958
manager. What's that? What do people need

1121
01:40:05,958 --> 01:40:07,583
to make to get into that

1122
01:40:07,583 --> 01:40:09,125
mindset shift, like to make sure

1123
01:40:09,125 --> 01:40:11,541
they can go from grant writer to grant

1124
01:40:11,541 --> 01:40:12,541
manager if they are the

1125
01:40:12,541 --> 01:40:17,083
same person? Yeah. I think it's

1126
01:40:17,083 --> 01:40:21,291
organization like the more you know, it

1127
01:40:21,291 --> 01:40:23,666
can feel like a lot of time,

1128
01:40:23,708 --> 01:40:24,750
especially at the beginning,

1129
01:40:24,750 --> 01:40:26,458
getting everything set up, organizing a

1130
01:40:26,458 --> 01:40:27,500
spreadsheet, I mean, it

1131
01:40:27,500 --> 01:40:28,541
doesn't have to be a spreadsheet,

1132
01:40:28,708 --> 01:40:31,000
spreadsheet, whatever works for you and

1133
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:33,000
your, you know, how you like

1134
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:34,708
to work, but setting up some

1135
01:40:34,708 --> 01:40:36,500
sort of document where you're keeping

1136
01:40:36,500 --> 01:40:39,250
track of all the things is super

1137
01:40:39,250 --> 01:40:43,250
important because it just

1138
01:40:43,291 --> 01:40:48,416
time in the end, like there's one funder,

1139
01:40:49,500 --> 01:40:52,083
they, you know, have a lot of

1140
01:40:52,083 --> 01:40:53,333
questions like the reporting

1141
01:40:53,333 --> 01:40:55,583
is it's a it's a long report. It's a lot

1142
01:40:55,583 --> 01:40:58,041
of questions. And, you

1143
01:40:58,041 --> 01:41:01,375
know, every year, it says,

1144
01:41:01,416 --> 01:41:03,125
you know, who are all the HCP on the

1145
01:41:03,125 --> 01:41:05,458
project? And first, you know,

1146
01:41:05,458 --> 01:41:08,208
for this was a five six year

1147
01:41:08,250 --> 01:41:12,041
project, like a list gets pretty long. So

1148
01:41:12,083 --> 01:41:13,416
can you imagine if you

1149
01:41:13,916 --> 01:41:15,250
didn't write it down anywhere,

1150
01:41:15,458 --> 01:41:18,333
every year going being like, Oh, right,

1151
01:41:18,375 --> 01:41:20,458
who are the HCP? But it's not

1152
01:41:20,458 --> 01:41:22,125
only having the list of HCP,

1153
01:41:22,125 --> 01:41:24,083
but keeping it in the format that they

1154
01:41:24,083 --> 01:41:26,333
ask is also huge because

1155
01:41:26,333 --> 01:41:27,750
then you're not like, right,

1156
01:41:27,833 --> 01:41:30,208
what is their email? What is their

1157
01:41:30,208 --> 01:41:32,750
birthday or and they may not be with

1158
01:41:32,875 --> 01:41:34,291
them. They may not be with

1159
01:41:34,291 --> 01:41:35,875
you anymore. Like on the board, you may

1160
01:41:35,875 --> 01:41:37,166
have moved on or something

1161
01:41:37,166 --> 01:41:39,250
long gone. Yeah. Yeah. And

1162
01:41:39,250 --> 01:41:42,250
sometimes they ask like, okay, who of

1163
01:41:42,250 --> 01:41:44,291
HCP, how many moved on to

1164
01:41:44,333 --> 01:41:46,208
secure jobs and stuff. And then if

1165
01:41:46,208 --> 01:41:48,083
you're trying to go back four years and

1166
01:41:48,083 --> 01:41:49,583
being like, Oh, where did

1167
01:41:49,583 --> 01:41:51,958
that person go? Or, you know, and

1168
01:41:51,958 --> 01:41:53,750
especially if you have a project with

1169
01:41:53,750 --> 01:41:55,791
multiple partners, they

1170
01:41:55,791 --> 01:41:57,708
become names to you. Like you

1171
01:41:57,708 --> 01:42:00,291
don't actually know them. Personally, you

1172
01:42:00,291 --> 01:42:01,166
just know that they're

1173
01:42:01,208 --> 01:42:03,458
part of the project. And, you

1174
01:42:03,458 --> 01:42:07,708
know, so, um, yeah, it, it takes time

1175
01:42:07,708 --> 01:42:09,125
initially to set things up.

1176
01:42:09,125 --> 01:42:10,583
But once you have it set up in

1177
01:42:10,583 --> 01:42:13,833
a rolling takes like five minutes to go

1178
01:42:13,833 --> 01:42:16,416
in and add a student or like for the

1179
01:42:16,416 --> 01:42:17,833
financials, like go in

1180
01:42:17,833 --> 01:42:21,083
and add an expense to the ledger. You

1181
01:42:21,083 --> 01:42:23,750
know, it, it really doesn't

1182
01:42:23,750 --> 01:42:25,625
take time to maintain, but it

1183
01:42:25,625 --> 01:42:28,791
takes a lot of time to go try and rewrite

1184
01:42:29,125 --> 01:42:30,416
history. If you're

1185
01:42:30,833 --> 01:42:32,333
starting off with a blood of brain

1186
01:42:32,625 --> 01:42:34,250
power and a lot of time, which you don't

1187
01:42:34,333 --> 01:42:35,500
always have when you're

1188
01:42:35,500 --> 01:42:36,833
multi, when you're managing,

1189
01:42:37,166 --> 01:42:39,250
not one project, but usually multiple

1190
01:42:39,250 --> 01:42:40,750
projects. And that can be,

1191
01:42:41,166 --> 01:42:42,333
that could be a lot of time and

1192
01:42:42,333 --> 01:42:44,166
a lot of headache if you have to go back

1193
01:42:44,291 --> 01:42:45,500
and do that. So having

1194
01:42:45,500 --> 01:42:47,041
that initial setting up that

1195
01:42:47,041 --> 01:42:48,666
initial template might take a little bit

1196
01:42:48,666 --> 01:42:50,083
of time at the front end, but

1197
01:42:50,083 --> 01:42:51,250
it'll save you a lot of time

1198
01:42:51,250 --> 01:42:53,000
at the back end when you have to go

1199
01:42:53,041 --> 01:42:54,208
through everything and you

1200
01:42:54,208 --> 01:42:56,541
have it all done. So I love,

1201
01:42:56,625 --> 01:42:58,500
I love that advice. One more question,

1202
01:42:58,916 --> 01:43:00,541
uh, for everybody. What's

1203
01:43:00,541 --> 01:43:03,958
an HQP? Oh, highly qualified

1204
01:43:03,958 --> 01:43:07,541
personnel. So students love it. Hey, you

1205
01:43:07,541 --> 01:43:09,125
know what? I think we should change the

1206
01:43:09,125 --> 01:43:09,791
name from students to

1207
01:43:09,791 --> 01:43:12,375
highly qualified personnel. That makes me

1208
01:43:12,375 --> 01:43:13,541
feel a lot better. I'm going

1209
01:43:13,541 --> 01:43:15,250
to tell you that right there,

1210
01:43:15,541 --> 01:43:17,875
Melissa, this has been amazing, so

1211
01:43:17,875 --> 01:43:19,458
helpful. Um, and really

1212
01:43:19,458 --> 01:43:22,083
just kind of almost like, uh,

1213
01:43:22,333 --> 01:43:23,583
being transparent yourself in terms of

1214
01:43:23,583 --> 01:43:25,000
what goes into a project

1215
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:26,250
and managing a project.

1216
01:43:26,750 --> 01:43:28,416
That people may not know whether you're

1217
01:43:28,416 --> 01:43:30,041
just starting off as a, as

1218
01:43:30,041 --> 01:43:31,541
an ocean leader and managing

1219
01:43:31,541 --> 01:43:34,208
projects or getting projects, but also

1220
01:43:34,291 --> 01:43:35,708
what to anticipate after

1221
01:43:35,708 --> 01:43:36,791
you get that grant. I think

1222
01:43:36,791 --> 01:43:38,416
that's really important. So thank you so

1223
01:43:38,416 --> 01:43:40,000
much for spending the time

1224
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:41,750
with us today and giving us that

1225
01:43:41,750 --> 01:43:44,666
advice. And of course, you know, Melissa

1226
01:43:44,666 --> 01:43:46,208
and we have, we have, uh,

1227
01:43:46,208 --> 01:43:49,000
Kirsty and now Cheryl on, on the,

1228
01:43:49,250 --> 01:43:52,250
uh, on the team to help manage those

1229
01:43:52,250 --> 01:43:53,416
grants. So of course, if

1230
01:43:53,416 --> 01:43:54,916
people want to know more,

1231
01:43:55,166 --> 01:43:57,666
uh, they can go to our website, uh, and

1232
01:43:57,666 --> 01:43:58,625
I'll put the link in the show

1233
01:43:58,625 --> 01:44:00,208
notes and they can find out,

1234
01:44:00,208 --> 01:44:01,916
just have a conversation of, you know,

1235
01:44:01,916 --> 01:44:02,916
how we can work together

1236
01:44:02,916 --> 01:44:04,125
and help your ocean project

1237
01:44:04,333 --> 01:44:06,333
succeed, uh, in the way that we do for

1238
01:44:06,333 --> 01:44:08,250
many other people. So, uh, let's say

1239
01:44:08,291 --> 01:44:09,291
thank you so much again.

1240
01:44:09,291 --> 01:44:11,000
We really appreciate it. And we'll talk

1241
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:12,458
to you next time. Sounds

1242
01:44:12,458 --> 01:44:13,875
good. Thank you, Melissa,

1243
01:44:13,875 --> 01:44:16,333
for dropping such amazing knowledge on

1244
01:44:16,375 --> 01:44:17,625
project management. This

1245
01:44:17,625 --> 01:44:18,708
is something that like,

1246
01:44:19,000 --> 01:44:20,666
this doesn't happen often, right? We

1247
01:44:20,666 --> 01:44:22,208
don't have these types of conversations

1248
01:44:22,208 --> 01:44:23,000
on podcasts and this

1249
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:24,333
is what we wanted to do. We wanted to

1250
01:44:24,333 --> 01:44:25,833
kind of open up that forum

1251
01:44:26,041 --> 01:44:27,958
to say, Hey, this is what it's

1252
01:44:27,958 --> 01:44:30,041
like to manage a project, right? As an

1253
01:44:30,041 --> 01:44:31,250
ocean leader, this is what

1254
01:44:31,250 --> 01:44:32,833
we do. This is how it's done.

1255
01:44:33,083 --> 01:44:34,833
This is what not to do, right? And these

1256
01:44:34,833 --> 01:44:35,458
are the mistakes that

1257
01:44:35,458 --> 01:44:36,958
people make. It happens. As,

1258
01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:39,375
as Melissa said, we get delays. Uh, you

1259
01:44:39,375 --> 01:44:40,791
know, there's, there's a

1260
01:44:40,791 --> 01:44:41,875
weather problems. If you're

1261
01:44:41,875 --> 01:44:43,583
going out on a research vessel, there's

1262
01:44:43,583 --> 01:44:44,750
problems with the research vessels

1263
01:44:44,750 --> 01:44:46,000
sometimes. And so we

1264
01:44:46,000 --> 01:44:47,208
want to make sure all that security and

1265
01:44:47,208 --> 01:44:48,375
you want to make sure you have that

1266
01:44:48,416 --> 01:44:49,875
wonderful relationship

1267
01:44:50,250 --> 01:44:53,125
with the funder. That's a must, right?

1268
01:44:53,125 --> 01:44:54,250
To, you've built up that

1269
01:44:54,250 --> 01:44:55,708
relationship to get the funding

1270
01:44:56,083 --> 01:44:58,208
and to inquire about what it takes to get

1271
01:44:58,208 --> 01:44:59,458
that funding. And now you

1272
01:44:59,458 --> 01:45:00,291
want to get that funding

1273
01:45:00,291 --> 01:45:01,875
again after that project. And you want to

1274
01:45:01,875 --> 01:45:03,083
maintain that communication.

1275
01:45:03,083 --> 01:45:04,458
You want it basically to say,

1276
01:45:04,666 --> 01:45:07,375
Hey, working with me and my organization,

1277
01:45:08,083 --> 01:45:09,000
whatever sector

1278
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:10,250
you're part of for-profit,

1279
01:45:10,250 --> 01:45:13,583
nonprofit academic is a great experience.

1280
01:45:13,583 --> 01:45:14,416
You're going to love it.

1281
01:45:14,416 --> 01:45:15,166
We're going to have great

1282
01:45:15,166 --> 01:45:16,125
conversations. We're going to be

1283
01:45:16,125 --> 01:45:18,291
transparent if things change, we are

1284
01:45:18,291 --> 01:45:19,541
going to do what's best for

1285
01:45:19,541 --> 01:45:22,666
you and your organization that's funding

1286
01:45:22,666 --> 01:45:24,291
us so that we can build

1287
01:45:24,291 --> 01:45:25,250
that relationship so that we

1288
01:45:25,250 --> 01:45:27,708
can do more projects together and change

1289
01:45:27,708 --> 01:45:29,833
the world and change the ocean one

1290
01:45:29,833 --> 01:45:30,958
project at a time. And

1291
01:45:30,958 --> 01:45:32,958
that's, I think is an important part, but

1292
01:45:32,958 --> 01:45:33,708
it doesn't get talked

1293
01:45:33,708 --> 01:45:34,708
about. If we don't talk about

1294
01:45:34,708 --> 01:45:36,375
it, we all do it in different ways. If we

1295
01:45:36,375 --> 01:45:37,250
don't, if we all do it in

1296
01:45:37,250 --> 01:45:38,000
different ways, we can't share

1297
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:40,000
our successes. And this is what Melissa

1298
01:45:40,041 --> 01:45:42,041
came to do is to share what could be

1299
01:45:42,041 --> 01:45:43,083
successful and how to be

1300
01:45:43,083 --> 01:45:45,500
successful in managing a project. I love

1301
01:45:45,500 --> 01:45:46,291
it. So thank you again,

1302
01:45:46,291 --> 01:45:48,125
Melissa. Thank you for listening.

1303
01:45:48,166 --> 01:45:50,208
If you are new to this podcast, this is

1304
01:45:50,208 --> 01:45:51,166
just, this is episode

1305
01:45:51,166 --> 01:45:52,750
three. We just released it. We

1306
01:45:52,750 --> 01:45:55,000
released an episode every other week. We

1307
01:45:55,000 --> 01:45:56,166
are talking to ocean

1308
01:45:56,166 --> 01:45:58,291
leaders, to you who want to do

1309
01:45:58,291 --> 01:46:00,000
better for the ocean, have a positive

1310
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:01,666
impact for the ocean. And you

1311
01:46:01,666 --> 01:46:03,125
just maybe need that advice or

1312
01:46:03,125 --> 01:46:04,666
you want to hear how other people are

1313
01:46:04,666 --> 01:46:05,750
talking about projects.

1314
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:07,250
This is what we're here to do.

1315
01:46:07,500 --> 01:46:09,250
If you want to talk to us about working

1316
01:46:09,250 --> 01:46:10,750
with us in the future,

1317
01:46:10,958 --> 01:46:12,708
please go to our website. I'll put

1318
01:46:12,708 --> 01:46:14,875
the link in the show notes. Go to contact

1319
01:46:14,875 --> 01:46:16,333
us. You can go through

1320
01:46:16,333 --> 01:46:17,916
our wayfinder. You can just

1321
01:46:18,041 --> 01:46:20,916
directly, and you can have a meeting and

1322
01:46:20,916 --> 01:46:21,875
we can just discuss what

1323
01:46:21,875 --> 01:46:22,875
your project is that you'd like

1324
01:46:22,875 --> 01:46:25,666
to do and maybe how we can help and put

1325
01:46:25,666 --> 01:46:26,750
you in the right direction

1326
01:46:26,958 --> 01:46:27,916
and in touch with the right

1327
01:46:27,916 --> 01:46:30,375
people. I want to thank you so much for

1328
01:46:30,375 --> 01:46:31,791
listening and all the support. Please

1329
01:46:31,791 --> 01:46:32,625
share this with other

1330
01:46:32,625 --> 01:46:34,916
ocean leaders. We'd love to just kind of

1331
01:46:34,916 --> 01:46:35,833
spread the news and just

1332
01:46:35,833 --> 01:46:37,333
have that open dialogue through

1333
01:46:37,333 --> 01:46:39,333
this podcast. Thank you so much for

1334
01:46:39,333 --> 01:46:41,208
joining me. I'm your host, Angelo, and

1335
01:46:41,208 --> 01:46:41,708
you've been listening

1336
01:46:41,708 --> 01:46:43,708
to the Ocean Leaders podcast, Pisces

1337
01:46:43,708 --> 01:46:45,708
podcast. Thank you so much for joining

1338
01:46:45,708 --> 01:46:46,541
me. Have a great day

1339
01:46:46,875 --> 01:46:47,791
and happy conservation.