Conservation Is About Collaboration And Balean Is All About Collaboration

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There is a collaboration problem within

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There is a collaboration problem within

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the ocean conservation

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field, and we're going

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to talk about it on today's episode of

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the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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We have Bart Orr, who is the new founder

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of Balian, which is a

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platform that helps individuals

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individuals that have ocean missions,

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that have ocean missions, have that

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support and get that funding to push

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their ocean missions

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push their ocean missions even further

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even further and get to that next level.

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We're going to talk about how this

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We're going to talk about how this

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founding came, how Balian

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came to be, how he went from

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he went from an engineer to a founder of

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an engineer to a founder of an ocean

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conservation organization.

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We're going to talk about how our

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We're going to talk about how our

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collaboration has been so

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helpful and what makes a good

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what makes a good collaboration for ocean

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collaboration for ocean

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conservation on this episode.

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Let's start the show.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back to another

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exciting episode of the How

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to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin.

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This is the podcast where you find out

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what's happening with the

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ocean, how you can speak

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up for the ocean, and what you can do to

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live for a better ocean by taking action.

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better ocean by taking action.

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On today's episode, we're going to be

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On today's episode, we're going to be

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talking about

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collaboration and what the problems are

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in collaboration in today's ocean

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conservation field and how

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to solve that, especially in

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this creator economy that we talk about.

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We're seeing a lot more and I'm seeing a

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We're seeing a lot more, and I'm seeing a

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lot more individuals

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come up with ideas of

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how to protect the ocean, how to make the

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ocean more sustainable, how to get people

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involved in making the ocean protected

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and conserved and more

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sustainable and just helping

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out the planet in general.

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But there's a lot of problems with that

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because you're individual.

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You don't have necessarily a huge

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platform like some of the

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larger organizations do.

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And a lot of the times you get left out

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And a lot of the times you get left out

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of the funding because

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you're not part of a large

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organization, which makes it

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really hard to collaborate.

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really hard to collaborate.

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So we're going to talk about

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So we're going to talk about

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collaborations in this episode.

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We're going to talk a lot of things and

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I'm going to introduce my

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guests in just a second.

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But before we do, if you are interested

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in protecting the

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ocean, I want you to consider

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consider joining the undertow.

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joining the undertow.

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The undertow is a platform, another

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The undertow is a platform, another

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platform where you can be

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part of a community where

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not only are you going to be able to

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support wave makers, but

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you can also be guided to

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taking ocean action, whether it be

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through buying specific

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products that we vet to make

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sure that they're good for you or that

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you're just talking about

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the ocean in general and

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learning more about the ocean.

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And learning more about the ocean.

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No algorithms from a

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No algorithms from a

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social media platform.

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social media platform.

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This is all ocean all the time.

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This is all ocean all the time.

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Go to speak up for blue.com forward slash

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join the undertow that

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speak up for blue.com

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blue dot com forward slash join the

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forward slash join the

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undertow to get access to that.

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Now to introduce my guest today, we have

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Bart Orr, who is one of

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the founders of Balian

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Balian and Balian dot org is the website.

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and Balian.org is the website.

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So you can go there to get more

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information and contact them

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and I'll put it in the show

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notes, but Bart and I have been talking a

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number of times recently.

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of times recently, as soon as we met, we

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As soon as we met, we met through a

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friend of ours, Natalie

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Gilson, who is a communications

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Gilson, who is a communications person,

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person who works for Pisces management.

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management and she's amazing.

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And she's amazing.

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And I've been able to meet a number of

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different people

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through these collaborations.

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collaborations and we decided to

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And we decided to collaborate on through

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some podcasting and to

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be able to talk about

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Balian to be able to talk about what

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makes a good collaboration

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and how to elevate individuals

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individuals who want to work within the

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who want to work within the ocean

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conservation field may not have that

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traditional background

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that traditional background of ocean

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of ocean science or being a marine

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biologist, ocean

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conservationists, but want to help out

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out regardless and have various creative

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regardless and have various creative ways

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of doing so, whether

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it be through business,

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whether it be through art, whether it be

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through a number of

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different avenues, science, and

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we don't want to be able to

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get them to the next level.

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And so Balian is one of those platforms

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that's working to do that.

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And it's a great platform and it's going

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And it's a great platform and it's going

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to become a bigger platform as it grows.

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So I want to have Bart on to talk about what makes a good collaboration.

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So I want to have Bart on to talk about

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what makes a good collaboration.

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So we talk about the current problems and

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So we talk about the current problems and

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some of the solutions

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that we suggest throughout

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this collaboration.

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So if you're an individual who's looking

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to up their game in

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terms of ocean conservation,

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conservation, this is

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this is the episode for you.

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the episode for you.

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And if you're an individual who's

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And if you're an individual who's

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struggling with

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collaborations in the past, this might

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be good for you to be able to listen to.

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you to be able to listen to.

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So here's the interview with Bart. Enjoy

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and I'll talk to you after.

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Hey, Bart, welcome to the how

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to protect the ocean podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about collaboration

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in ocean conservation?

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Yes, sir. Yes, I am. Yeah.

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Let's collaborate, right?

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Absolutely. This is a collaboration which

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we'll find out more

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about in a few minutes.

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And Bart and I, we've met through a good

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friend of ours, Natalie Gilson, and we've

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So here's the interview with Bart. Enjoy.

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been kind of talking on and off for a bit

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for the over the last couple of months,

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working together, discussing ocean

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conservation and what's needed.

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And we're going to talk about your

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platform, Baliin, and we're going to talk

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about you and everything that has to go

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with collaboration and ocean

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conservation, because that's something

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that one is an important thing to do to

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get projects moving

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forward to get action done.

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We see collaboration on all different

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levels from government level all the way

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to individual level.

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And so we want to talk about some of the

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problems that we've seen and how to get

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those solutions going

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to solve those problems.

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So we're going to talk about a lot of

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things. And to be honest, Bart, I have a

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feeling this is going to be the beginning

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of a long conversation that's going to

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happen over a number of episodes.

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So I'm already inviting you back because

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I know this is going to be a lot of fun.

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But this is it's going to be like a

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conversation and less of an interview,

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but more of a conversation.

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And I can't wait to get into it. But

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before we do, Bart, why don't you just

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let us know who you are and what you do?

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Yeah, sure. Yeah. Wow. And then we still

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need to start, right? And already paving

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the road for the next steps.

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Yeah, look, Bart Orr, I am Bart training.

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I'm a mechanical engineer. I have my

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business background. And but I'm

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absolutely intrigued by

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sustainability in general.

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And a couple of years back, I got into

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this thing called ocean and ocean

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conservation, ocean sustainability. And

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that's where things took off. And I found

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out I have a new career.

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Almost like a new purpose, right?

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Yeah, so what what is important to me is

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that if you consider how we look at the

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earth and how we how we deal and live our

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everyday life, I became absolutely

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fascinated by the fact how how this the

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largest ecosystem on the planet is has

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always been there for millions of years.

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And it's keeping it's it's it's still

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there. It's taking care of us. And we are

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barely aware of that, right? As humanity.

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And that's that's thought about, okay,

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there's this big thing, keeping us alive.

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While we barely know.

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That's fascinating. So let's explore

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that, right? And that's where my journey

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started. There's also one of the reasons

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why I decided, okay, let's let's go for

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it. And this is going to be my new

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purpose, my new future. And hence, here's

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value. And suddenly, I'm an ocean

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entrepreneur. No, with my co founder.

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Yeah, well, I love I love that. I love

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that aspect. And, you know, coming from

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an engineering background, like why has

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sustainability always been such a play

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such a big role? You know, a lot of

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engineers, you can engineer is such a

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such a just like ocean conservation,

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ocean science, there's such a it's such a

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huge field, you can specialize in a lot

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of different aspects of it, from oil and

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gas all the way to creating, you know,

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the smallest of instruments that go into

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microchips that are microchips that go into computers that are

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00:07:10,916 --> 00:07:14,250
power some of the largest facilities in

277
00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:16,541
the world. So this is such a broad

278
00:07:16,541 --> 00:07:19,166
subject matter. But sustainability,

279
00:07:19,791 --> 00:07:22,208
although it is a niche kind of area

280
00:07:22,208 --> 00:07:24,916
within within engineering and sort of

281
00:07:24,916 --> 00:07:28,583
within the scope. How did you like where

282
00:07:28,583 --> 00:07:31,291
did that interest come from? And how have

283
00:07:31,291 --> 00:07:32,666
you been using that throughout your

284
00:07:32,666 --> 00:07:35,375
career? Yeah, well, for me, it's actually

285
00:07:35,375 --> 00:07:37,708
pretty simple. It starts with awareness

286
00:07:37,708 --> 00:07:39,083
for myself. I've been

287
00:07:39,083 --> 00:07:39,875
creating, I think, a lot of people are

288
00:07:40,916 --> 00:07:43,125
probably mostly consumer products or

289
00:07:43,125 --> 00:07:46,166
tools and equipment and mechanical stuff.

290
00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:49,166
And when you do that, you start to

291
00:07:49,166 --> 00:07:51,083
realize, okay, yeah, let's let's make it

292
00:07:51,083 --> 00:07:52,875
a bit better. Let's make it a better

293
00:07:52,875 --> 00:07:55,625
product or how to make it more

294
00:07:55,625 --> 00:07:58,000
sustainable and with a smaller footprint.

295
00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,500
But after a while, you start to realize,

296
00:07:59,500 --> 00:08:03,666
okay, it's still, well, still shit that

297
00:08:03,666 --> 00:08:04,875
I'm putting into this new world, right?

298
00:08:04,875 --> 00:08:09,500
And there's already so much so I became

299
00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:11,208
fascinated about how can I lower my

300
00:08:11,208 --> 00:08:14,500
footprint, but you cannot go below zero,

301
00:08:14,708 --> 00:08:16,958
right? Still a challenge, still a

302
00:08:16,958 --> 00:08:19,083
challenge. But if you get to zero, I

303
00:08:19,083 --> 00:08:21,583
started wondering, is there a possibility

304
00:08:21,583 --> 00:08:23,291
how you can make a positive impact,

305
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,750
which, which, well, maybe not with stuff,

306
00:08:26,750 --> 00:08:28,458
but with things, the things that I want

307
00:08:28,458 --> 00:08:31,458
to do. And that's, that's idea that kept

308
00:08:31,458 --> 00:08:33,583
me alive. And also awake

309
00:08:33,583 --> 00:08:33,875
in the evenings, right?

310
00:08:33,875 --> 00:08:38,166
But it was really there. And I started

311
00:08:38,166 --> 00:08:40,375
exploring things like, okay, seaweed,

312
00:08:40,375 --> 00:08:44,291
super interesting, right? There's a big,

313
00:08:44,291 --> 00:08:47,125
big potential in how seaweed is a

314
00:08:47,125 --> 00:08:50,875
sustainable source of food and

315
00:08:50,875 --> 00:08:53,875
livelihoods of people and while in the

316
00:08:53,875 --> 00:08:55,666
ocean, it also does a great job in

317
00:08:55,666 --> 00:08:58,708
biodiversity. So that's interesting. So

318
00:08:58,708 --> 00:09:01,250
let's, let's, let's go there. And, and

319
00:09:01,250 --> 00:09:02,958
just concepts like these,

320
00:09:02,958 --> 00:09:03,666
that's, that's, that's, that's the

321
00:09:04,083 --> 00:09:06,458
that triggered me. And what can I do,

322
00:09:06,458 --> 00:09:09,750
right? How can me and how can I

323
00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:12,666
contribute to that? How can my thoughts,

324
00:09:13,083 --> 00:09:16,250
my, well, if I have them, how can all my

325
00:09:16,250 --> 00:09:18,375
skills, how can all my skills contribute

326
00:09:18,375 --> 00:09:20,666
to this bigger picture? And how can I

327
00:09:20,666 --> 00:09:23,083
create something that is bigger than me

328
00:09:23,083 --> 00:09:25,000
alone? And that's where collaboration

329
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,166
starts. There is one of the things that I

330
00:09:29,166 --> 00:09:32,125
noticed, when I explored

331
00:09:32,125 --> 00:09:33,833
this, this concept of seaweed,

332
00:09:33,875 --> 00:09:35,833
and ocean conservation and the

333
00:09:35,833 --> 00:09:38,625
combination of the two. What really,

334
00:09:38,625 --> 00:09:41,958
really intrigued me is, this is a new

335
00:09:41,958 --> 00:09:45,041
world. This is a new type of new sector

336
00:09:45,041 --> 00:09:48,041
where people treat each other in a

337
00:09:48,041 --> 00:09:50,208
different way. Everybody is in there with

338
00:09:50,208 --> 00:09:52,458
a purpose, they're not there for money,

339
00:09:52,958 --> 00:09:55,875
right? These people, they are truly

340
00:09:55,875 --> 00:09:58,458
motivated, they are really there to make

341
00:09:58,458 --> 00:10:00,833
an impact on their own way. And this,

342
00:10:00,833 --> 00:10:02,375
this leverages this

343
00:10:02,375 --> 00:10:03,833
different type of collaboration.

344
00:10:03,875 --> 00:10:05,666
Different type of collaboration that you

345
00:10:05,666 --> 00:10:08,375
would normally see in normally in my

346
00:10:08,375 --> 00:10:11,041
world, from the industry, right? Where

347
00:10:11,041 --> 00:10:13,791
it's all about, this is mine, this is

348
00:10:13,791 --> 00:10:16,125
yours. And let's keep it like this. No,

349
00:10:16,125 --> 00:10:18,500
it's way different, different mindset.

350
00:10:18,916 --> 00:10:22,916
And that was something like, okay, here,

351
00:10:22,916 --> 00:10:24,500
we can do something here, we can build

352
00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:27,000
bridges. And this is, this is my type of

353
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,000
people I want to work

354
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,875
with. That's where it started.

355
00:10:30,875 --> 00:10:33,000
I love it. I love it. And so like, when

356
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,083
you did engineering, what were you

357
00:10:34,083 --> 00:10:36,833
working in? What aspect of engineering

358
00:10:36,833 --> 00:10:38,000
were you working in?

359
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,166
Mostly consumer goods and production. I

360
00:10:42,166 --> 00:10:44,375
did some things in bicycles, I did some

361
00:10:44,375 --> 00:10:46,250
things in machine industry, construction,

362
00:10:47,041 --> 00:10:49,625
medical tools, a whole bunch of things.

363
00:10:50,291 --> 00:10:54,500
But when you're a mechanical engineer,

364
00:10:54,833 --> 00:10:56,458
after a while, it doesn't matter anymore,

365
00:10:56,458 --> 00:10:58,875
whether you build roller coasters or, or,

366
00:10:59,875 --> 00:11:02,041
Coca Cola bottles, right? It doesn't

367
00:11:02,041 --> 00:11:04,791
matter. It's just material. And I wanted

368
00:11:04,791 --> 00:11:07,708
to do something like imagine with a

369
00:11:07,708 --> 00:11:10,958
positive impact. And yeah, I believe my

370
00:11:10,958 --> 00:11:13,833
mindset still is an engineer. Yeah, I

371
00:11:13,833 --> 00:11:15,041
still think like that. And that's also

372
00:11:15,041 --> 00:11:17,041
what I did when, when you zoom out and

373
00:11:17,041 --> 00:11:20,083
you see the earth from space. I don't see

374
00:11:20,083 --> 00:11:24,958
just this bowl, this, this bowl or this

375
00:11:24,958 --> 00:11:26,791
floating swear, it's more like,

376
00:11:26,916 --> 00:11:29,250
this is an ecosystem. This is a total

377
00:11:29,250 --> 00:11:31,291
system that works. It's completely

378
00:11:31,291 --> 00:11:34,125
closed. What happens there? And is this

379
00:11:34,125 --> 00:11:36,750
ecosystem thoughts? How does it stay

380
00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:37,583
alive? How does it

381
00:11:37,583 --> 00:11:39,083
work? That's interesting.

382
00:11:40,250 --> 00:11:42,416
Yeah, yeah, no doubt. I think I think it

383
00:11:42,416 --> 00:11:44,000
is interesting, especially, you know,

384
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,916
working with consumer goods all the time,

385
00:11:45,916 --> 00:11:48,083
you see, like, you're like, Oh, I want

386
00:11:48,083 --> 00:11:49,708
this to be more like, I'd like this to be

387
00:11:49,708 --> 00:11:51,416
more sustainable. And, you know, but

388
00:11:51,416 --> 00:11:53,333
you're stuck in this sort of like a cog

389
00:11:53,333 --> 00:11:55,083
in the wheel of, you know, the business

390
00:11:55,083 --> 00:11:57,166
aspect and what, you know, marketing and

391
00:11:57,166 --> 00:11:59,291
what, what works for people, what people

392
00:11:59,291 --> 00:12:01,583
will use. And I mean, you know, changing

393
00:12:01,583 --> 00:12:03,791
human behavior is very difficult. But,

394
00:12:03,791 --> 00:12:05,458
but you can do that when you create

395
00:12:05,458 --> 00:12:07,625
products. And I can see where that

396
00:12:07,625 --> 00:12:08,625
sustainability really

397
00:12:08,625 --> 00:12:08,875
comes in, like that.

398
00:12:08,875 --> 00:12:11,083
Oh, yeah. Process, like how do we make

399
00:12:11,083 --> 00:12:14,166
this a lot more sustainable? And, and I

400
00:12:14,166 --> 00:12:17,125
love that aspect as well. So that's cool.

401
00:12:17,125 --> 00:12:19,125
And so where was that shift, like that

402
00:12:19,125 --> 00:12:21,458
predominant shift over the last little

403
00:12:21,458 --> 00:12:22,750
bit where you're just like, you know

404
00:12:22,750 --> 00:12:25,958
what, you know, I want to really have my

405
00:12:25,958 --> 00:12:29,208
mark on, on, on the oceans and on ocean

406
00:12:29,208 --> 00:12:31,250
conservation. So where, where did, can

407
00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:33,250
you pinpoint that one moment where you're

408
00:12:33,250 --> 00:12:35,541
like, okay, I'm making a, I'm making a

409
00:12:35,541 --> 00:12:36,458
big shift because that's a

410
00:12:36,458 --> 00:12:36,875
big change in your career.

411
00:12:36,875 --> 00:12:40,000
Yeah, it was, it was. Yeah, and that's

412
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,541
quite unfortunate. I don't have, let's

413
00:12:41,541 --> 00:12:43,666
say this single moment where it's okay

414
00:12:43,666 --> 00:12:45,458
from tomorrow onwards, I'm going to do

415
00:12:45,458 --> 00:12:48,250
everything different. It was like a

416
00:12:48,250 --> 00:12:53,125
gradual shift. You get some, you're

417
00:12:53,125 --> 00:12:54,916
interested in something, you learn more,

418
00:12:55,166 --> 00:12:57,083
I had some conversations with a marine

419
00:12:57,083 --> 00:12:59,291
biologist, I remember very clearly. And

420
00:12:59,291 --> 00:13:02,416
she told me about how, how just whales,

421
00:13:02,666 --> 00:13:05,875
how they contribute to CO2 uptake, and how they contribute to the world.

422
00:13:06,875 --> 00:13:10,458
And I was like, okay, and this is just

423
00:13:10,458 --> 00:13:13,208
whales. Tell me more, right? What, what's

424
00:13:13,208 --> 00:13:16,958
the more you talk, the more you speak

425
00:13:16,958 --> 00:13:19,750
with experts, the more you start reading,

426
00:13:20,125 --> 00:13:21,708
you start listening to podcasts, you

427
00:13:21,708 --> 00:13:23,916
learn, you watch documentaries, and

428
00:13:23,916 --> 00:13:25,750
whether they are on national geographic

429
00:13:25,750 --> 00:13:27,416
or Netflix, whatever.

430
00:13:28,916 --> 00:13:32,416
And you start to search for information

431
00:13:32,416 --> 00:13:37,583
and you want to know more and yeah, this

432
00:13:37,583 --> 00:13:40,125
fascination that's unstoppable. And for

433
00:13:40,125 --> 00:13:42,375
me, it became like a new passion. I

434
00:13:42,375 --> 00:13:44,208
wasn't like this 10 years ago, but now

435
00:13:44,208 --> 00:13:46,416
there's so much we need to do.

436
00:13:47,875 --> 00:13:50,833
And this is the beauty. There's also so

437
00:13:50,833 --> 00:13:53,083
much we can do. And that was different.

438
00:13:53,958 --> 00:13:56,333
There's a lot of documentaries, like I

439
00:13:56,333 --> 00:13:58,458
mentioned, or talks that you have about

440
00:13:58,458 --> 00:14:00,625
people saying that this is not good.

441
00:14:00,833 --> 00:14:04,125
It's, we have a problem and things are

442
00:14:04,125 --> 00:14:06,333
not going in the right direction. And

443
00:14:06,333 --> 00:14:07,875
they are right. There are problems.

444
00:14:08,875 --> 00:14:11,291
But what triggers me and maybe this is

445
00:14:11,291 --> 00:14:13,291
the engineer taking over, I see

446
00:14:13,291 --> 00:14:16,250
opportunities, right? Consider this

447
00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:18,250
example of these wheels, right? There's

448
00:14:18,250 --> 00:14:20,791
now roughly 20% of the original wheel

449
00:14:20,791 --> 00:14:24,875
population still left. And they take the

450
00:14:24,875 --> 00:14:30,250
wheel activity that they only have like,

451
00:14:30,250 --> 00:14:33,375
they already have four ways of carbon

452
00:14:33,375 --> 00:14:34,875
sequestering four ways and

453
00:14:34,916 --> 00:14:39,958
and their wheel activity is like 1% of

454
00:14:39,958 --> 00:14:42,750
global carbon uptake with their activity

455
00:14:42,750 --> 00:14:45,333
alone. Imagine we just restored back to

456
00:14:45,333 --> 00:14:47,875
original populations. Yeah, then you go

457
00:14:47,875 --> 00:14:50,791
from one to 5%. That's big, right?

458
00:14:51,125 --> 00:14:52,375
That's a big difference. And

459
00:14:52,375 --> 00:14:53,500
a lot of big animals around.

460
00:14:53,916 --> 00:14:57,583
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And it was like that.

461
00:14:57,583 --> 00:15:01,416
So it's just a matter of, okay, we bring

462
00:15:01,416 --> 00:15:05,375
it back to how it was. And we save what

463
00:15:05,375 --> 00:15:08,125
we had, we save ourselves, right? So for

464
00:15:08,125 --> 00:15:10,375
me, it's more about the potential and how

465
00:15:10,375 --> 00:15:13,333
we can leverage that rather than than how

466
00:15:13,333 --> 00:15:16,708
all about how much of a threat we have.

467
00:15:17,041 --> 00:15:18,500
And it is there, but I

468
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:19,166
see the opportunities.

469
00:15:20,458 --> 00:15:23,625
Yeah, no, definitely. And so in comes,

470
00:15:23,625 --> 00:15:27,000
you know, Balian, which you you co

471
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,166
founded. How did how did that all that

472
00:15:30,166 --> 00:15:32,500
come about? Like where, you know, where

473
00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:34,500
did that that vision come from? And then

474
00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:37,166
how did you take that vision, you know,

475
00:15:37,166 --> 00:15:38,541
from an engineering perspective, the

476
00:15:38,541 --> 00:15:40,833
engineering mind and then bring about

477
00:15:40,833 --> 00:15:43,583
being like, okay, like this is, yeah,

478
00:15:43,583 --> 00:15:44,500
this is what we're gonna do.

479
00:15:45,875 --> 00:15:48,666
And when you decide, okay, I want to do

480
00:15:48,666 --> 00:15:49,708
something different. I want to do

481
00:15:49,708 --> 00:15:50,916
something with the oceans, you start

482
00:15:50,916 --> 00:15:53,708
thinking about, okay, where can I

483
00:15:53,708 --> 00:15:56,583
contribute? Who should I told to? Hey,

484
00:15:56,583 --> 00:15:59,250
I'm here, I want to help. And I started

485
00:15:59,250 --> 00:16:02,250
noticing, okay, there's a lot of people

486
00:16:02,250 --> 00:16:04,833
already doing amazing stuff. And I would

487
00:16:04,833 --> 00:16:05,583
love to help them.

488
00:16:06,041 --> 00:16:07,500
There is so much we can do.

489
00:16:07,958 --> 00:16:10,333
Oh, these guys are doing coral reef

490
00:16:10,333 --> 00:16:13,250
restoration. So here they are doing kelp

491
00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:16,916
forest, a reef foresting. There's another

492
00:16:16,916 --> 00:16:20,625
place where they work on well, you name

493
00:16:20,625 --> 00:16:22,916
it, there's so much. But I noticed that,

494
00:16:22,916 --> 00:16:26,208
okay, it's pretty challenging for a for a

495
00:16:26,208 --> 00:16:29,666
non scientist like me, or someone who

496
00:16:29,666 --> 00:16:31,875
doesn't come from conservation, or has

497
00:16:31,916 --> 00:16:36,416
been a banker for 30 years or whatever,

498
00:16:36,416 --> 00:16:39,083
and comes in with a lot of money. It's

499
00:16:39,083 --> 00:16:42,333
very challenging to make this change to

500
00:16:42,333 --> 00:16:44,500
this new sector. So I did some

501
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:47,541
volunteering, I talked to people, I did

502
00:16:47,541 --> 00:16:51,375
my part in the best way I could. But

503
00:16:51,375 --> 00:16:52,583
there was one thing that I noticed. And

504
00:16:52,583 --> 00:16:53,500
this was this was also the

505
00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:55,875
reason why I could not change.

506
00:16:55,875 --> 00:16:58,166
It was not just a job change where you go

507
00:16:58,166 --> 00:17:00,250
from one company to the other. I really

508
00:17:00,250 --> 00:17:02,625
needed to change my mindset in and how

509
00:17:02,625 --> 00:17:06,208
can I gradually make this change to a new

510
00:17:06,208 --> 00:17:09,125
career to new purpose. And for me, the

511
00:17:09,125 --> 00:17:11,833
trigger came into, okay, if there's one

512
00:17:11,833 --> 00:17:14,458
problem that all these organizations, all

513
00:17:14,458 --> 00:17:15,958
these people, and there are literally

514
00:17:15,958 --> 00:17:18,083
10,000 of these organizations, millions

515
00:17:18,083 --> 00:17:19,666
of people working on

516
00:17:19,666 --> 00:17:20,875
ocean impact every day.

517
00:17:20,916 --> 00:17:22,708
If there's one thing that's blocking

518
00:17:22,708 --> 00:17:25,250
them, it is funding awareness,

519
00:17:25,458 --> 00:17:29,208
visibility. Maybe I should do that,

520
00:17:29,666 --> 00:17:34,500
right? If there is a big problem for all

521
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:36,166
these organizations, all these impact

522
00:17:36,166 --> 00:17:39,500
organizations that I can remove, improve

523
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:44,000
and help them with, then I can make an

524
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,458
impact that is far

525
00:17:45,458 --> 00:17:47,875
beyond who am I on my own.

526
00:17:47,916 --> 00:17:50,750
And that's where Valian started.

527
00:17:52,666 --> 00:17:55,375
Yeah, I love that. I think it's such a

528
00:17:55,375 --> 00:17:57,833
hard thing to, it's a hard thing to

529
00:17:57,833 --> 00:17:59,958
conceptualize right off the bat, right?

530
00:17:59,958 --> 00:18:02,333
And then I think also, it's a hard thing

531
00:18:02,333 --> 00:18:05,875
to try and say, like, who do you work

532
00:18:05,875 --> 00:18:06,583
with at the beginning?

533
00:18:06,791 --> 00:18:08,041
I mean, there's so many people that are

534
00:18:08,041 --> 00:18:10,416
working within ocean conservation. It's

535
00:18:10,416 --> 00:18:12,750
like, how do you support the people that,

536
00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:14,875
you know, Valian's going to support?

537
00:18:14,875 --> 00:18:18,000
And I think that's the challenge, which

538
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,916
we'll get into in a number of different

539
00:18:19,916 --> 00:18:22,208
episodes here. Because I think, you know,

540
00:18:22,208 --> 00:18:23,916
that's, I think that'll be the always the

541
00:18:23,916 --> 00:18:26,125
question. And that's how we started to

542
00:18:26,125 --> 00:18:29,666
get to talk as well, to share our

543
00:18:29,666 --> 00:18:33,083
thoughts and share our ideas and where

544
00:18:33,083 --> 00:18:35,083
you're working with some great people

545
00:18:35,083 --> 00:18:37,208
like Natalie Gilson and stuff to get the

546
00:18:37,208 --> 00:18:39,208
stories out and get Valian's story out,

547
00:18:39,541 --> 00:18:40,875
including yours and Sanders.

548
00:18:40,916 --> 00:18:43,375
And I think that's, I think it's, I think

549
00:18:43,375 --> 00:18:44,708
it's really great. But, you know, the big

550
00:18:44,708 --> 00:18:47,708
thing with with the mission of Valian is,

551
00:18:47,708 --> 00:18:50,375
is, is collaboration. And that's what

552
00:18:50,375 --> 00:18:51,708
we'll be talking about today.

553
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,416
And so for you when talking when thinking

554
00:18:55,416 --> 00:18:59,041
about that mission, both of you, where

555
00:18:59,041 --> 00:19:01,166
did collaboration, how did collaboration

556
00:19:01,166 --> 00:19:02,416
become that much of a

557
00:19:02,416 --> 00:19:03,875
key aspect in your mission?

558
00:19:03,916 --> 00:19:06,666
Yeah, yeah. Well, it started actually

559
00:19:06,666 --> 00:19:08,875
already with with my co founder, right?

560
00:19:09,333 --> 00:19:11,583
We're neighbors, we're neighbors. So we

561
00:19:11,583 --> 00:19:13,208
speak to each other already quite some

562
00:19:13,208 --> 00:19:15,916
time. And, and then you I didn't, I

563
00:19:15,916 --> 00:19:17,458
forgot that I didn't realize that you

564
00:19:17,458 --> 00:19:18,291
guys were like

565
00:19:18,291 --> 00:19:19,208
neighbors. That's hilarious.

566
00:19:19,916 --> 00:19:22,291
Yeah, sometimes you search for for like

567
00:19:22,291 --> 00:19:24,083
minded people all around the world. And

568
00:19:24,083 --> 00:19:26,083
you speak to people that are literally on

569
00:19:26,083 --> 00:19:27,625
the other side of the ocean. Hey, do you

570
00:19:27,625 --> 00:19:28,666
want to work with me?

571
00:19:28,666 --> 00:19:29,625
And right this idea.

572
00:19:30,875 --> 00:19:32,500
But there's always something in the way,

573
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:36,125
right? I just got into a new job. Maybe

574
00:19:36,125 --> 00:19:38,833
not. I just, I just got married. Don't

575
00:19:38,833 --> 00:19:40,791
have the money, whatever. And then it

576
00:19:40,791 --> 00:19:42,666
turns out, he was living on the other

577
00:19:42,666 --> 00:19:43,625
side of the street, right?

578
00:19:44,166 --> 00:19:45,125
Here's my neighbor Sonder.

579
00:19:45,916 --> 00:19:47,833
So this was already where the

580
00:19:47,833 --> 00:19:49,958
collaboration started. I started to

581
00:19:49,958 --> 00:19:52,250
notice that if you just express your

582
00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:54,958
passion, what you want to do, explain why

583
00:19:54,958 --> 00:19:57,250
you want to do it. There are a lot of

584
00:19:57,250 --> 00:19:59,625
people around you who have something

585
00:19:59,625 --> 00:20:02,250
similar, maybe on a small

586
00:20:02,250 --> 00:20:04,166
burner in the back of their head.

587
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,916
But a lot of people really want to make

588
00:20:06,916 --> 00:20:08,791
an impact. And that's, that's something

589
00:20:08,791 --> 00:20:12,125
that was also for us. We started from

590
00:20:12,125 --> 00:20:14,916
scratch. This was super important. If you

591
00:20:14,916 --> 00:20:17,250
speak with people and all openers and

592
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:18,958
transparency, and we don't do secrets.

593
00:20:19,166 --> 00:20:21,291
There's no need for secrets. If you speak

594
00:20:21,291 --> 00:20:23,125
about what you want to achieve, what you

595
00:20:23,125 --> 00:20:25,541
can achieve, but you cannot do it alone.

596
00:20:26,416 --> 00:20:28,500
We pretty quickly realize that this is

597
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:29,458
way bigger than just

598
00:20:29,458 --> 00:20:30,583
two people, two founders.

599
00:20:30,916 --> 00:20:33,708
There is so much we can do. And

600
00:20:33,708 --> 00:20:36,375
collaboration in general, it should be

601
00:20:36,375 --> 00:20:38,708
mutually beneficial, right? It cannot be

602
00:20:38,708 --> 00:20:41,125
like, hey, thanks for helping me and

603
00:20:41,125 --> 00:20:43,583
goodbye. No, it should always be like,

604
00:20:43,583 --> 00:20:46,083
how can we help each other in such a way

605
00:20:46,083 --> 00:20:49,875
that it doesn't only help me as a person

606
00:20:49,875 --> 00:20:51,875
or as a business or organization?

607
00:20:51,916 --> 00:20:54,333
How can we do it in such a way that it

608
00:20:54,333 --> 00:20:57,708
also helps you and we found out that by

609
00:20:57,708 --> 00:20:59,625
just posing this question, okay, well,

610
00:20:59,625 --> 00:21:01,041
this is what we're doing. What are you

611
00:21:01,041 --> 00:21:04,208
doing? Where's the overlap? There are so

612
00:21:04,208 --> 00:21:05,166
many things possible

613
00:21:05,166 --> 00:21:06,875
suddenly and doors open, right?

614
00:21:06,916 --> 00:21:10,583
So instead of, like I mentioned before, a

615
00:21:10,583 --> 00:21:14,250
simple job change, hey, here's my CV and

616
00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:17,500
here you go. Now it really became a

617
00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:20,541
transition into a different mindset,

618
00:21:20,875 --> 00:21:23,375
which is all about collaborating

619
00:21:23,375 --> 00:21:25,041
openness, mutual

620
00:21:25,041 --> 00:21:27,375
beneficial collaboration that is.

621
00:21:36,875 --> 00:21:39,208
And I think that's what I think collaboration is great. Now, how do you

622
00:21:39,208 --> 00:21:41,416
like when you stepping into the ocean

623
00:21:41,416 --> 00:21:44,000
conservation industry or the field,

624
00:21:44,416 --> 00:21:48,125
you're coming in with a brand new lens in

625
00:21:48,125 --> 00:21:50,541
your experience, how do you find

626
00:21:50,541 --> 00:21:53,958
collaborations working within the

627
00:21:53,958 --> 00:21:56,250
industry, not just with your own personal

628
00:21:56,250 --> 00:21:59,041
things, but from people you've talked to

629
00:21:59,041 --> 00:21:59,875
a lot of different people.

630
00:21:59,875 --> 00:22:03,000
Yeah. How do you where do you get the

631
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,000
sense where collaboration is within

632
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,000
within the ocean conservation field?

633
00:22:07,666 --> 00:22:08,791
Yeah, well, the first thing that I

634
00:22:08,791 --> 00:22:11,041
noticed is that it's very interconnected,

635
00:22:11,041 --> 00:22:14,791
right? You rarely find a person who is

636
00:22:14,791 --> 00:22:17,166
only bound to one organization. They

637
00:22:17,166 --> 00:22:18,916
typically do things

638
00:22:18,916 --> 00:22:19,833
for this organization.

639
00:22:19,916 --> 00:22:22,833
They also help there. And while doing

640
00:22:22,833 --> 00:22:24,166
that, they have a hobby, which is also

641
00:22:24,166 --> 00:22:26,583
related to ocean conservation in a way.

642
00:22:27,125 --> 00:22:31,416
So it's very interconnected. And if you

643
00:22:31,416 --> 00:22:33,666
speak to one, you automatically speak to

644
00:22:33,666 --> 00:22:34,958
three, four or even five

645
00:22:34,958 --> 00:22:35,875
people at the same time.

646
00:22:35,916 --> 00:22:40,375
And so true. Yeah, it's a networking

647
00:22:40,375 --> 00:22:43,750
became a very different way compared to

648
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:46,458
the traditional industry where I've been

649
00:22:46,458 --> 00:22:49,958
in. It's very much on one on one contact.

650
00:22:50,208 --> 00:22:52,083
And then maybe you can ask this, this,

651
00:22:52,083 --> 00:22:55,208
this person to have me I do you also have

652
00:22:55,208 --> 00:22:56,833
a colleague, or can you

653
00:22:56,833 --> 00:22:57,875
let me speak to your manager?

654
00:22:57,916 --> 00:23:03,666
It goes step by step ocean sector ocean

655
00:23:03,666 --> 00:23:05,458
conservation and restoration. That's

656
00:23:05,458 --> 00:23:09,708
different. If you notice there is a

657
00:23:09,708 --> 00:23:13,541
shared passion. People will also say, Oh,

658
00:23:13,541 --> 00:23:15,666
wow, that's great. I know what you need.

659
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,041
I know what you want to do. And you

660
00:23:18,041 --> 00:23:19,958
should definitely talk to this guy. And

661
00:23:19,958 --> 00:23:22,583
by the way, I just wrote him or her an

662
00:23:22,583 --> 00:23:25,541
email. And it goes goes in a very

663
00:23:25,541 --> 00:23:26,875
different way that this networking and collaboration is very different.

664
00:23:26,916 --> 00:23:27,458
And I think that networking and

665
00:23:27,458 --> 00:23:28,666
collaborative networking,

666
00:23:28,958 --> 00:23:30,875
that that's super powerful.

667
00:23:31,958 --> 00:23:33,750
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And I think

668
00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:35,416
especially when you first start out and

669
00:23:35,416 --> 00:23:36,708
you're starting to make these connections

670
00:23:36,708 --> 00:23:39,291
and the networking becomes a big thing. I

671
00:23:39,291 --> 00:23:41,750
mean, it worked for me too. From from

672
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:43,875
this podcast standpoint, when I started

673
00:23:43,875 --> 00:23:45,541
interviewing people,

674
00:23:45,916 --> 00:23:47,250
you know, back in 2014.

675
00:23:48,250 --> 00:23:49,083
for this podcast,

676
00:23:49,083 --> 00:23:50,250
which I launched in 2015,

677
00:23:51,250 --> 00:23:53,083
I started to interview

678
00:23:53,083 --> 00:23:54,166
people and then they'd be like,

679
00:23:54,166 --> 00:23:56,875
at first, I knew a good

680
00:23:56,875 --> 00:23:58,666
number of people within the field.

681
00:23:59,125 --> 00:23:59,750
And so I started off

682
00:23:59,750 --> 00:24:00,625
with them, of course,

683
00:24:00,625 --> 00:24:02,333
and then they enjoyed it.

684
00:24:02,708 --> 00:24:04,708
We had a good time talking and says,

685
00:24:04,708 --> 00:24:05,791
oh, you know who you should interview?

686
00:24:05,791 --> 00:24:06,791
You should interview this person.

687
00:24:07,125 --> 00:24:09,333
They're working on such and such topic.

688
00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:11,333
Oh, okay, cool, let's talk to that.

689
00:24:11,666 --> 00:24:13,875
I remember I did an interview

690
00:24:13,875 --> 00:24:16,583
on marine mammals and whales,

691
00:24:16,625 --> 00:24:20,083
and I contacted one person

692
00:24:20,083 --> 00:24:22,000
who I knew and I said, hey,

693
00:24:22,458 --> 00:24:24,375
we did this interview and

694
00:24:24,375 --> 00:24:25,541
at the end of the interview,

695
00:24:25,875 --> 00:24:27,250
I started to ask a little bit about it

696
00:24:27,250 --> 00:24:29,125
was one blackfish got released,

697
00:24:29,375 --> 00:24:31,708
the documentary about Tilakum, the orca,

698
00:24:32,166 --> 00:24:33,041
and the captive orca,

699
00:24:33,041 --> 00:24:34,416
and changed the captive orca industry.

700
00:24:35,291 --> 00:24:36,083
And I said, yeah, do you

701
00:24:36,083 --> 00:24:37,333
know much about that movie

702
00:24:37,333 --> 00:24:38,666
and what science went

703
00:24:38,666 --> 00:24:39,708
in and stuff like that?

704
00:24:39,708 --> 00:24:41,083
It looks like it's having a big impact.

705
00:24:41,083 --> 00:24:41,708
He goes, oh no, you

706
00:24:41,708 --> 00:24:42,500
should talk to my wife.

707
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,250
She's the orca biologist and

708
00:24:44,250 --> 00:24:45,500
she did a lot of the science

709
00:24:46,291 --> 00:24:47,541
and she checked the science for it.

710
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:49,416
So then I got to talk to her and that was

711
00:24:49,416 --> 00:24:51,500
one of my biggest episodes to this date

712
00:24:51,958 --> 00:24:53,166
on the podcast.

713
00:24:53,416 --> 00:24:58,833
And it's interesting how once you show,

714
00:24:58,833 --> 00:25:00,958
once you start to talk to people and show

715
00:25:00,958 --> 00:25:03,000
what you're doing and they genuinely

716
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,625
understand what you're doing and feel the

717
00:25:05,625 --> 00:25:07,208
love of what you're doing,

718
00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:10,750
how they will pass it on and get you to

719
00:25:10,750 --> 00:25:12,916
talk to other people to help you out.

720
00:25:12,958 --> 00:25:15,041
And I think that takes a lot from

721
00:25:15,041 --> 00:25:16,541
yourself to be able to

722
00:25:16,541 --> 00:25:17,583
go and talk to people.

723
00:25:17,583 --> 00:25:19,208
And I tell this to people who are looking

724
00:25:19,208 --> 00:25:21,041
for jobs all the time in the industry.

725
00:25:21,041 --> 00:25:21,750
I'm like the biggest thing

726
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:23,000
is start talking to people.

727
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,875
If you can't afford to go to a

728
00:25:24,875 --> 00:25:26,750
conference, go on

729
00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:28,375
LinkedIn, start messaging people,

730
00:25:28,666 --> 00:25:30,000
start have one-on-one

731
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,291
coffees virtually with them.

732
00:25:31,541 --> 00:25:32,750
There's so many ways you can

733
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:34,166
connect with people these days.

734
00:25:34,166 --> 00:25:35,125
It makes it a lot easier

735
00:25:35,125 --> 00:25:37,416
than when I was first starting.

736
00:25:37,791 --> 00:25:39,791
But that networking

737
00:25:39,791 --> 00:25:40,916
is really interesting.

738
00:25:40,958 --> 00:25:44,750
I feel though when people start working

739
00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:46,166
together or start

740
00:25:46,166 --> 00:25:47,916
talking about working together,

741
00:25:48,208 --> 00:25:49,583
that's when collaboration

742
00:25:49,583 --> 00:25:51,125
really becomes important.

743
00:25:51,625 --> 00:25:53,833
And I find that's where we really find

744
00:25:53,833 --> 00:25:57,000
out where the problems

745
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,666
are in collaboration.

746
00:26:00,208 --> 00:26:02,125
Have you come across, you don't have to

747
00:26:02,125 --> 00:26:03,333
name any names or anything.

748
00:26:03,958 --> 00:26:05,625
Have you come across instances where or

749
00:26:05,625 --> 00:26:07,500
even heard of instances where

750
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:09,291
collaboration wasn't really working the

751
00:26:09,291 --> 00:26:10,833
way you thought it would be working,

752
00:26:10,833 --> 00:26:11,750
even between two different

753
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:13,208
organizations or whatever?

754
00:26:13,541 --> 00:26:16,000
Yeah, well, we all have

755
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:16,958
our own stories, right?

756
00:26:17,291 --> 00:26:21,166
And we met also through networking and

757
00:26:21,166 --> 00:26:23,750
that was powerful, super nice.

758
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:25,041
And now we're suddenly talking to each

759
00:26:25,041 --> 00:26:25,750
other in this podcast.

760
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,333
But of course, to me, there's a few

761
00:26:30,333 --> 00:26:31,916
things that are important.

762
00:26:31,958 --> 00:26:35,541
The first is timing. You need to speak to

763
00:26:35,541 --> 00:26:37,500
someone who just happens to have the

764
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:43,250
right time and have this comparable

765
00:26:43,250 --> 00:26:44,500
thought at the same time.

766
00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:47,083
And sometimes you simply cannot convince

767
00:26:47,083 --> 00:26:49,791
a person to do the same, right? It

768
00:26:49,791 --> 00:26:51,583
doesn't always work like that.

769
00:26:52,291 --> 00:26:54,750
I mentioned about this small thought in

770
00:26:54,750 --> 00:26:56,625
the back of the mind of the people about

771
00:26:56,625 --> 00:26:58,208
ocean conservation or

772
00:26:58,208 --> 00:26:58,916
sustainability in general.

773
00:26:58,958 --> 00:27:02,416
Some people just have a very small

774
00:27:02,416 --> 00:27:03,833
burner. Others have a big fire.

775
00:27:04,833 --> 00:27:06,458
And that needs to be a little bit of

776
00:27:06,458 --> 00:27:08,958
coincidence. Sometimes you can feel it

777
00:27:08,958 --> 00:27:10,375
like, ah, whoa, hold on.

778
00:27:11,333 --> 00:27:13,250
I hear or you sense from a

779
00:27:13,250 --> 00:27:14,875
person in a conversation.

780
00:27:14,875 --> 00:27:15,791
And this goes very well

781
00:27:15,791 --> 00:27:17,375
with a glass of beer in a cafe.

782
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:24,000
This person has this same sense of I can

783
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:24,916
do better. I can do more.

784
00:27:24,958 --> 00:27:27,500
And that's the sweet spot, right? If you

785
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:29,916
know, oh, hey, hold on. What you're now

786
00:27:29,916 --> 00:27:30,916
telling me, I

787
00:27:30,916 --> 00:27:32,125
recognize what you're saying.

788
00:27:32,541 --> 00:27:34,125
And I've been through that. I am going

789
00:27:34,125 --> 00:27:36,708
through that at this very moment. And

790
00:27:36,708 --> 00:27:37,708
then you want to you want

791
00:27:37,708 --> 00:27:38,750
to explore this together.

792
00:27:39,375 --> 00:27:41,750
We have shared passion. That's a sweet

793
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:44,458
spot. And of course, it also happens the

794
00:27:44,458 --> 00:27:45,208
other way around, right?

795
00:27:46,333 --> 00:27:47,833
If you have conversations with a friend,

796
00:27:49,375 --> 00:27:51,750
even if they're they're very close to

797
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:52,750
you, it can sometimes

798
00:27:52,750 --> 00:27:53,958
mean that this person

799
00:27:55,083 --> 00:27:58,000
doesn't feel the connect or doesn't care

800
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,041
about it as much as you do.

801
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:02,125
Yeah, coincidence.

802
00:28:03,625 --> 00:28:05,708
Yeah, professional. Yeah, sorry. Yeah,

803
00:28:05,708 --> 00:28:07,125
please go ahead. No, go ahead. Go

804
00:28:07,125 --> 00:28:08,875
continue. Continue. Go ahead. Yeah.

805
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:12,500
On a more professional level, I it can

806
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:13,500
also be sometimes like

807
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:14,916
internal priorities and

808
00:28:15,958 --> 00:28:20,375
the industry in ocean conservation

809
00:28:20,375 --> 00:28:23,000
restoration, it's a lot of small

810
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,666
initiatives, smaller individuals that

811
00:28:25,666 --> 00:28:27,666
that's sometimes do this besides their

812
00:28:27,666 --> 00:28:29,541
day to day job, right? Yes.

813
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,541
So much energy and compassion and passion

814
00:28:32,541 --> 00:28:35,041
about what they want to achieve. And

815
00:28:35,041 --> 00:28:37,250
these are the people have a really big

816
00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:37,916
and open mind about Oh, yeah, sure.

817
00:28:37,958 --> 00:28:42,000
We should they are truly motivated to to

818
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,041
make a change. Yeah, while bigger

819
00:28:45,041 --> 00:28:48,666
organizations. Yeah, there it's it's for

820
00:28:48,666 --> 00:28:49,958
for some people, it's just a job.

821
00:28:49,958 --> 00:28:52,250
While others are there for making an

822
00:28:52,250 --> 00:28:55,500
impact and purpose. And yeah, you also

823
00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:57,708
need to be a bit lucky. But I found out

824
00:28:57,708 --> 00:29:01,416
that especially these smaller

825
00:29:01,416 --> 00:29:03,208
initiatives, the things that are not

826
00:29:03,208 --> 00:29:03,916
super, super big yet.

827
00:29:04,958 --> 00:29:07,500
There's so much potential, so much

828
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:11,666
innovation and knowledge, passion, I feel

829
00:29:11,666 --> 00:29:15,333
like they deserve to be successful. And

830
00:29:15,333 --> 00:29:17,625
in a way, sometimes I feel like that

831
00:29:17,625 --> 00:29:19,916
myself, I'm just starting this together

832
00:29:19,916 --> 00:29:21,875
with some there is in since

833
00:29:21,875 --> 00:29:23,916
October 24, pretty recently.

834
00:29:23,958 --> 00:29:27,416
So we're, we're absolute beginners. So we

835
00:29:27,416 --> 00:29:31,791
need some, some leverage or runway to

836
00:29:31,791 --> 00:29:33,583
make this into a success week, we cannot

837
00:29:33,583 --> 00:29:36,291
be big at the very beginning. So in my

838
00:29:36,291 --> 00:29:40,875
view, all the organizations, people, or

839
00:29:40,875 --> 00:29:41,916
institutes that are already big.

840
00:29:42,958 --> 00:29:44,458
In a way, it's also their responsibility

841
00:29:44,458 --> 00:29:46,708
to help the smaller ones or the not yet

842
00:29:46,708 --> 00:29:50,208
famous persons, right? And that's Yeah,

843
00:29:50,208 --> 00:29:52,916
they're there. That can be challenging,

844
00:29:52,916 --> 00:29:53,708
that can be challenging.

845
00:29:54,750 --> 00:29:55,833
I think it can be challenging. But I

846
00:29:55,833 --> 00:29:57,583
think it has the most potential, to be

847
00:29:57,583 --> 00:29:59,833
honest, like these individuals, because I

848
00:29:59,833 --> 00:30:01,708
think the times that we're in and the

849
00:30:01,708 --> 00:30:04,375
technology that we have, you know, in

850
00:30:04,375 --> 00:30:06,750
that creator economy or that influencer

851
00:30:06,750 --> 00:30:09,125
economy is is is becoming

852
00:30:09,125 --> 00:30:10,500
bigger and bigger and bigger.

853
00:30:11,958 --> 00:30:12,500
And I think that's a great experience.

854
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:13,750
Like when I grew up into the industry,

855
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:15,708
you know, I graduated my undergrad degree

856
00:30:15,708 --> 00:30:19,083
in 2001. So, you know, internet was still

857
00:30:19,083 --> 00:30:20,958
it was becoming bigger and bigger. But

858
00:30:20,958 --> 00:30:22,708
you know, social media was like, I think

859
00:30:22,708 --> 00:30:24,833
we had, what was it? My space, I think

860
00:30:24,833 --> 00:30:26,750
was the biggest social media

861
00:30:26,750 --> 00:30:27,916
platform that was out there.

862
00:30:27,958 --> 00:30:29,416
And even then that was that was getting

863
00:30:29,416 --> 00:30:31,125
that wasn't even that big at that point.

864
00:30:31,416 --> 00:30:32,708
But there was no Facebook, there was no

865
00:30:32,708 --> 00:30:36,041
YouTube at that point. And the people in

866
00:30:36,041 --> 00:30:37,875
the organizations who kind of ruled the

867
00:30:37,875 --> 00:30:39,875
roost were the big organizations, the

868
00:30:39,875 --> 00:30:42,916
WWF, the Oceana, and they did some

869
00:30:42,916 --> 00:30:43,958
phenomenal work and they

870
00:30:43,958 --> 00:30:45,916
continue to do phenomenal work.

871
00:30:45,958 --> 00:30:48,375
But they had like they were the machines

872
00:30:48,375 --> 00:30:51,041
that kept things going and and you either

873
00:30:51,041 --> 00:30:53,416
worked with them or you didn't or maybe

874
00:30:53,416 --> 00:30:55,000
you worked as like a consultant. So

875
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,833
they'd get like a professor or they get

876
00:30:56,833 --> 00:30:58,375
like somebody who was, you know, had a

877
00:30:58,375 --> 00:30:59,875
lot of experience in the industry and

878
00:30:59,875 --> 00:31:01,708
they were experts and they would work

879
00:31:01,708 --> 00:31:02,916
with them, you know, on a contract basis.

880
00:31:02,958 --> 00:31:05,000
And they would have little contracts or

881
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,916
they would fund graduate work. And they

882
00:31:06,916 --> 00:31:08,666
did again, they did some amazing work

883
00:31:08,666 --> 00:31:11,375
like WWF funded my part of my graduate

884
00:31:11,375 --> 00:31:13,375
work on marine protected areas. And it

885
00:31:13,375 --> 00:31:14,916
was it was wonderful to work. They were

886
00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:15,916
really great to work with.

887
00:31:15,958 --> 00:31:19,083
But then as people started to graduate

888
00:31:19,083 --> 00:31:20,875
and more and more people started to get

889
00:31:20,875 --> 00:31:22,500
into the field of marine science and

890
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:25,000
ocean conservation, there was less and

891
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,750
less funding available and more people

892
00:31:26,750 --> 00:31:28,916
around and the funding continues to kind

893
00:31:28,916 --> 00:31:31,416
of decrease it seems or not increase it

894
00:31:31,416 --> 00:31:31,916
the way it should be.

895
00:31:31,958 --> 00:31:34,708
And there are more people starting more

896
00:31:34,708 --> 00:31:36,166
organizations. Some of those are getting

897
00:31:36,166 --> 00:31:37,750
bigger. Other people are going in

898
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:39,791
different routes and and but we're seeing

899
00:31:39,791 --> 00:31:43,500
this this increase of the individual of

900
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:46,833
the creator and who are, you know, they

901
00:31:46,833 --> 00:31:48,125
might be undergraduates.

902
00:31:48,125 --> 00:31:49,583
They might be graduates or they might be

903
00:31:49,583 --> 00:31:51,375
newly graduates or they might be business

904
00:31:51,375 --> 00:31:53,166
people just like yourself and Sanders who

905
00:31:53,166 --> 00:31:54,958
are who decide to say, you know what,

906
00:31:54,958 --> 00:31:56,958
like we were interested in the ocean and

907
00:31:56,958 --> 00:31:58,708
we need to help solve these problems.

908
00:31:59,416 --> 00:32:00,500
And we started seeing more and more

909
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:02,750
individual people and smaller

910
00:32:02,750 --> 00:32:05,166
organizations who are coming on to the

911
00:32:05,166 --> 00:32:07,750
forefront competing for this same

912
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:11,166
funding. And and a lot of them are being

913
00:32:11,166 --> 00:32:13,541
left behind or not being able to succeed

914
00:32:13,541 --> 00:32:18,041
in doing a full time career within this

915
00:32:18,041 --> 00:32:20,541
business doing the mission, which a lot

916
00:32:20,541 --> 00:32:22,375
of times are really great missions.

917
00:32:22,958 --> 00:32:24,916
So they are they are they are needed.

918
00:32:24,916 --> 00:32:26,416
They are necessary. They're trying to

919
00:32:26,416 --> 00:32:28,000
solve a problem, whether it be through

920
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,916
business or whether it be through a

921
00:32:29,916 --> 00:32:32,541
charitable action. You know, those are

922
00:32:32,541 --> 00:32:33,333
separated, but they're

923
00:32:33,333 --> 00:32:34,458
all over the place. Right.

924
00:32:34,958 --> 00:32:39,083
And so there is a need to be able to have

925
00:32:39,083 --> 00:32:42,375
an organization like like Balian or like

926
00:32:42,375 --> 00:32:47,375
the undertow to to be able to support and

927
00:32:47,375 --> 00:32:50,333
help these individuals to be able to move

928
00:32:50,333 --> 00:32:51,750
forward by looking at

929
00:32:51,750 --> 00:32:52,916
different funding actions.

930
00:32:52,958 --> 00:32:55,916
Oh, yeah. Different ways to fund them

931
00:32:55,916 --> 00:32:58,166
because oftentimes they get left behind.

932
00:32:58,166 --> 00:32:59,708
This is where I have the problem with. I

933
00:32:59,708 --> 00:33:01,666
feel like the major problem with the

934
00:33:01,666 --> 00:33:03,541
collaboration is and I get it like it's

935
00:33:03,541 --> 00:33:05,583
nobody's fault by any means.

936
00:33:06,875 --> 00:33:08,416
A lot of the times when you don't see

937
00:33:08,416 --> 00:33:09,833
collaboration working out, it's not

938
00:33:09,833 --> 00:33:12,458
necessarily because of somebody's trying

939
00:33:12,458 --> 00:33:14,833
to be mean or someone is just trying to

940
00:33:14,833 --> 00:33:16,250
like get all the I mean, you see that,

941
00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:16,916
but not often. Right.

942
00:33:17,958 --> 00:33:21,166
Rarely. Right. And I think it's just I

943
00:33:21,166 --> 00:33:22,750
think it's more of the fact that these

944
00:33:22,750 --> 00:33:24,458
organizations control the funding. They

945
00:33:24,458 --> 00:33:26,500
give out the funding and and they can

946
00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:27,541
only give up the funding to certain

947
00:33:27,541 --> 00:33:29,250
people. It's who they know and stuff.

948
00:33:29,250 --> 00:33:30,958
But there's so many people that are that

949
00:33:30,958 --> 00:33:32,750
are that are growing and that are coming

950
00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:34,708
into this industry as individuals that

951
00:33:34,708 --> 00:33:36,791
they need that extra support because you

952
00:33:36,791 --> 00:33:39,250
never know the impact that these

953
00:33:39,250 --> 00:33:41,333
individuals will have on the

954
00:33:41,333 --> 00:33:41,916
world. You know what I mean?

955
00:33:42,041 --> 00:33:44,500
Like you never know who the next David

956
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:46,458
Attenborough is or you know, you never

957
00:33:46,458 --> 00:33:48,875
know who the next Sylvia Earl will be or

958
00:33:48,875 --> 00:33:51,708
or Melissa Marquez or Diva Amman. You

959
00:33:51,708 --> 00:33:54,666
just never know. And so be but if they

960
00:33:54,666 --> 00:33:57,791
don't have that support, then it's then

961
00:33:57,791 --> 00:33:58,916
they'll never get there.

962
00:33:59,375 --> 00:34:00,916
And so that's where I think Balian

963
00:34:00,916 --> 00:34:03,541
becomes such an integral part of the

964
00:34:03,541 --> 00:34:06,375
system is because you can provide that

965
00:34:06,375 --> 00:34:08,375
support not only from a monetary

966
00:34:08,375 --> 00:34:10,000
standpoint, from a funding standpoint,

967
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,291
but from like an actual support of like

968
00:34:12,291 --> 00:34:14,666
provide them with a community and provide

969
00:34:14,666 --> 00:34:15,500
them with that. Right.

970
00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:16,666
Like what are your thoughts on that?

971
00:34:17,208 --> 00:34:20,041
It's all about community visibility

972
00:34:20,041 --> 00:34:24,000
awareness and fundraise is a very big

973
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,416
obstacle, but also just consider funding

974
00:34:27,416 --> 00:34:30,833
like you mentioned in order to get to the

975
00:34:30,833 --> 00:34:32,458
big funds. You need to have some kind of

976
00:34:32,458 --> 00:34:33,916
an idea, but not just an idea.

977
00:34:33,958 --> 00:34:36,791
You need to have a proven idea or ideally

978
00:34:36,791 --> 00:34:38,916
an already working organization. But how

979
00:34:38,916 --> 00:34:40,833
do you get there if there's no funding,

980
00:34:40,833 --> 00:34:43,500
right? It all starts with a bit of

981
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:46,791
awareness and visibility.

982
00:34:47,875 --> 00:34:50,250
And like your example with David

983
00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:53,333
Attenborough, I don't know, but I can

984
00:34:53,333 --> 00:34:56,500
totally imagine and when he was 20 or 30

985
00:34:56,500 --> 00:34:58,916
years old, barely no one knew him.

986
00:34:58,958 --> 00:35:00,916
Right. You have to start somewhere,

987
00:35:00,916 --> 00:35:06,416
right? Yeah. And I feel like imagine

988
00:35:06,416 --> 00:35:09,750
you're an individual considering this

989
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:11,458
idea about how can I make

990
00:35:11,458 --> 00:35:13,458
an impact? Just like myself.

991
00:35:16,041 --> 00:35:18,708
There's not a lot of funds that we have.

992
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,500
There's not a lot of time that we have.

993
00:35:20,875 --> 00:35:24,416
When we started, we were thinking about

994
00:35:24,416 --> 00:35:28,166
this besides our day to day job. We've

995
00:35:28,166 --> 00:35:30,458
given up on our day to day job now. But

996
00:35:30,458 --> 00:35:33,375
at that time, our time was very limited.

997
00:35:34,541 --> 00:35:38,583
So little time, almost no budget, but it

998
00:35:38,583 --> 00:35:40,916
was a big difference. And that is we are

999
00:35:40,916 --> 00:35:44,125
really, really passionate about where we

1000
00:35:44,125 --> 00:35:46,875
want to go. So our North Star was there

1001
00:35:46,875 --> 00:35:48,916
and it hasn't moved.

1002
00:35:49,333 --> 00:35:51,500
We are this is what we want to do. This

1003
00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:53,500
is where we are heading. And this

1004
00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:55,708
intrinsic motivation, this sense of

1005
00:35:55,708 --> 00:35:58,541
purpose. And I really, really need to end

1006
00:35:58,541 --> 00:36:00,583
up here in this domain. And this is what

1007
00:36:00,583 --> 00:36:02,333
I want to do. That's something.

1008
00:36:03,583 --> 00:36:06,416
You only sense this with these smaller

1009
00:36:06,416 --> 00:36:08,291
individuals, this innovative spirit

1010
00:36:08,291 --> 00:36:10,583
about, okay, no matter what, I will get

1011
00:36:10,583 --> 00:36:16,208
there. And you start to make move

1012
00:36:16,208 --> 00:36:19,125
everything to make that happen. This

1013
00:36:19,125 --> 00:36:22,958
drive. That's something that's that's

1014
00:36:22,958 --> 00:36:25,208
super powerful. And that's where also

1015
00:36:25,208 --> 00:36:28,416
where we feel like, okay, these

1016
00:36:28,416 --> 00:36:29,666
individuals, these smaller

1017
00:36:29,666 --> 00:36:30,916
organizations that start.

1018
00:36:30,958 --> 00:36:34,833
They do need the same attention. And

1019
00:36:34,833 --> 00:36:38,416
there should be no limitation on on the

1020
00:36:38,416 --> 00:36:40,458
smaller initiatives. They should deserve

1021
00:36:40,458 --> 00:36:45,291
the same respect and the same visibility

1022
00:36:45,291 --> 00:36:48,083
like like the bigger ones. We all make

1023
00:36:48,083 --> 00:36:48,916
impact in our own way.

1024
00:36:49,958 --> 00:36:53,500
But it should not be limited by just or

1025
00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:56,208
how to let me put it in different words,

1026
00:36:56,208 --> 00:36:59,000
you cannot be successful all at once. You

1027
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,000
also need to write small 100%. Yeah, and

1028
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,791
that goes for everything. And it makes so

1029
00:37:04,791 --> 00:37:08,875
much sense. But how to live upon that, we

1030
00:37:08,875 --> 00:37:12,000
feel like we can just simply leverage the

1031
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,541
the the the the the the the the the

1032
00:37:14,541 --> 00:37:15,875
opportunity there by

1033
00:37:15,875 --> 00:37:16,916
removing the biggest obstacles.

1034
00:37:17,958 --> 00:37:21,000
Yeah, and collaboration. Yeah, you will

1035
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,541
find situations where you cannot

1036
00:37:22,541 --> 00:37:24,833
collaborate where someone said, Oh,

1037
00:37:24,833 --> 00:37:26,875
sorry, I don't have priority. But I have

1038
00:37:26,875 --> 00:37:29,916
my own project. It happens. Yeah, finds

1039
00:37:29,916 --> 00:37:32,208
the people around you who do have a

1040
00:37:32,208 --> 00:37:35,083
match. And that's where it starts. So

1041
00:37:35,083 --> 00:37:37,125
there's already also this this

1042
00:37:37,125 --> 00:37:39,750
matchmaking in collaboration, you need to

1043
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:41,333
find the right person. And if it's not

1044
00:37:41,333 --> 00:37:44,250
now, yeah, who knows in five years time,

1045
00:37:44,250 --> 00:37:45,625
we might be just one

1046
00:37:45,625 --> 00:37:45,916
of these big ones. And

1047
00:37:45,958 --> 00:37:49,583
I hope I will tell the same at that time,

1048
00:37:49,583 --> 00:37:52,208
right? But we really, really believe that

1049
00:37:52,208 --> 00:37:54,666
all these smaller initiatives, all

1050
00:37:54,666 --> 00:37:57,000
innovation comes can come from anywhere,

1051
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,916
no matter whether you're a scientist,

1052
00:37:59,250 --> 00:38:00,666
whether you're an individual like me,

1053
00:38:01,375 --> 00:38:03,958
whether you live in Australia in Africa,

1054
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:08,625
or wherever, I don't care. It's just

1055
00:38:08,625 --> 00:38:10,666
people, it's in innovation, it's spirits,

1056
00:38:10,916 --> 00:38:12,916
it's purpose. Let's let's make use of it. It's there.

1057
00:38:12,958 --> 00:38:16,875
Yeah, and there are so many things that

1058
00:38:16,875 --> 00:38:19,458
need to be done within the ocean. It

1059
00:38:19,458 --> 00:38:22,291
makes sense for that these these up and

1060
00:38:22,291 --> 00:38:24,291
comers, right? These individuals who have

1061
00:38:24,291 --> 00:38:26,208
these ideas who want to bring it to the

1062
00:38:26,208 --> 00:38:28,625
next level, get that support to bring it

1063
00:38:28,625 --> 00:38:30,375
to that next level, whatever that level

1064
00:38:30,375 --> 00:38:32,333
looks like, right? Some will go will jump

1065
00:38:32,333 --> 00:38:34,458
levels, others will go one step at a

1066
00:38:34,458 --> 00:38:35,958
time, most of the people will go one step

1067
00:38:35,958 --> 00:38:37,416
at a time, because that's how how

1068
00:38:37,416 --> 00:38:40,083
businesses grow and things like that.

1069
00:38:40,083 --> 00:38:41,916
And, you know, have to have patience and so forth. And so, you know, I think that's a really important thing.

1070
00:38:41,958 --> 00:38:47,875
And I think it's, I think it's really

1071
00:38:47,875 --> 00:38:49,458
important. I think I think it's great.

1072
00:38:49,666 --> 00:38:52,541
Now, you know, when when you work with a

1073
00:38:52,541 --> 00:38:55,958
bunch of these individuals, you know,

1074
00:38:56,500 --> 00:38:59,500
through the ballon platform, will they'll

1075
00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:01,750
probably be people who will collaborate,

1076
00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:04,541
you know, through the platform or meet

1077
00:39:04,541 --> 00:39:06,166
through the platform, like, you know,

1078
00:39:06,166 --> 00:39:07,625
we've been on a couple of meetings

1079
00:39:07,625 --> 00:39:10,458
together and workshops together on on

1080
00:39:10,458 --> 00:39:10,916
communication, and we've been on the platform for a long time.

1081
00:39:10,958 --> 00:39:11,291
We're on the platform for a long time,

1082
00:39:11,291 --> 00:39:12,083
which is a good communication. And there

1083
00:39:12,083 --> 00:39:15,208
are probably a good, you know, 10 to 12

1084
00:39:15,208 --> 00:39:17,500
people who are on the calls at any one

1085
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:20,916
one time. And, and it's easy to see the

1086
00:39:20,916 --> 00:39:22,750
collaboration already. Yeah.

1087
00:39:23,375 --> 00:39:24,916
Already happened. How do you encourage

1088
00:39:24,916 --> 00:39:28,000
that on the platform for people to to

1089
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,000
collaborate? Yeah, of course, some of

1090
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,208
them already know each other. But what

1091
00:39:33,208 --> 00:39:36,750
what is that I mentioned this this

1092
00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:38,875
networking through networking effects.

1093
00:39:39,958 --> 00:39:43,833
But what I really enjoy seeing is also

1094
00:39:43,833 --> 00:39:45,041
the new people meeting.

1095
00:39:46,166 --> 00:39:46,375
Yeah.

1096
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,708
We have a Dutch organization doing things

1097
00:39:50,708 --> 00:39:55,375
in the North Sea and they make an impact

1098
00:39:55,375 --> 00:39:57,541
in a very, very nice

1099
00:39:57,541 --> 00:39:59,250
way with citizen science.

1100
00:39:59,916 --> 00:40:02,083
We have an organization in Mexico doing

1101
00:40:02,083 --> 00:40:05,416
coral reef restorations and they are in

1102
00:40:05,416 --> 00:40:06,916
the same space, but they never met.

1103
00:40:06,958 --> 00:40:09,833
So this is super enjoyable for me to

1104
00:40:09,833 --> 00:40:12,125
watch. They're also learning from each

1105
00:40:12,125 --> 00:40:14,916
other and I am there. I can watch that. I

1106
00:40:14,916 --> 00:40:16,166
can learn from them as well.

1107
00:40:16,416 --> 00:40:19,000
And maybe I also have some insight that I

1108
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,333
can share with them. This networking of

1109
00:40:22,333 --> 00:40:24,583
bringing people together, bringing

1110
00:40:24,583 --> 00:40:25,666
organizations together.

1111
00:40:26,041 --> 00:40:28,708
That's a community. And what I really

1112
00:40:28,708 --> 00:40:32,000
like about it, there's always these talks

1113
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,750
about, yeah, we need to make sure that we

1114
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:35,458
have our noses

1115
00:40:35,458 --> 00:40:35,958
pointing the same direction.

1116
00:40:36,958 --> 00:40:41,291
We need to be fully aligned, but I rarely

1117
00:40:41,291 --> 00:40:42,916
seen it really aligned

1118
00:40:42,916 --> 00:40:45,458
like I'm seeing today. Yeah.

1119
00:40:45,458 --> 00:40:47,166
There's only people with a sense of

1120
00:40:47,166 --> 00:40:51,583
purpose, ocean impact. And it comes from

1121
00:40:51,583 --> 00:40:54,208
deep inside. So it's from there coming

1122
00:40:54,208 --> 00:40:55,000
from their personal

1123
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:55,916
values most of the time.

1124
00:40:55,958 --> 00:41:01,250
Then magic happens. There's so different

1125
00:41:01,250 --> 00:41:04,375
energy in such a meeting and or workshop

1126
00:41:04,375 --> 00:41:06,583
or conversation that you're having.

1127
00:41:24,958 --> 00:41:49,833
Shaman articulated to

1128
00:41:49,833 --> 00:41:52,333
give you information.

1129
00:41:53,958 --> 00:41:56,958
have a feeling in a lot of spaces, and

1130
00:41:56,958 --> 00:41:58,500
this is not just in ocean conservation,

1131
00:41:58,500 --> 00:41:59,250
but a lot of spaces,

1132
00:41:59,875 --> 00:42:02,208
is we don't learn what a good

1133
00:42:02,208 --> 00:42:05,333
collaboration entails, right? We don't

1134
00:42:05,333 --> 00:42:07,250
learn how to collaborate

1135
00:42:07,291 --> 00:42:09,166
with people. We just expect that people

1136
00:42:09,166 --> 00:42:10,416
will be respectful of each of

1137
00:42:10,416 --> 00:42:11,708
their own goals, and we try,

1138
00:42:11,708 --> 00:42:13,041
like, you know, you and I, when we got

1139
00:42:13,041 --> 00:42:14,083
together, it's like, how can

1140
00:42:14,083 --> 00:42:15,250
we benefit each other? Like,

1141
00:42:15,250 --> 00:42:18,333
this is a collaboration. How do we make

1142
00:42:18,333 --> 00:42:20,375
sure that each of us get value out of

1143
00:42:20,375 --> 00:42:21,625
this relationship? And

1144
00:42:21,958 --> 00:42:23,625
I've done this over a number of times,

1145
00:42:23,625 --> 00:42:25,708
and we always define it together to make

1146
00:42:25,708 --> 00:42:26,625
sure that we can see

1147
00:42:26,625 --> 00:42:28,791
value in each other. For new people

1148
00:42:28,791 --> 00:42:30,500
coming on to the to the Balian platform,

1149
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,625
what would your suggestions

1150
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,541
be to ensure that you get healthy

1151
00:42:36,541 --> 00:42:40,208
collaborations where both parties benefit

1152
00:42:40,208 --> 00:42:41,458
in some sort of way?

1153
00:42:42,208 --> 00:42:44,625
Yeah, right. In typical business, you

1154
00:42:44,625 --> 00:42:46,625
will start pitching your idea and how

1155
00:42:46,625 --> 00:42:48,083
important it is. But

1156
00:42:48,083 --> 00:42:49,833
at Balian, we did it actually a bit

1157
00:42:49,833 --> 00:42:53,333
different. We asked for, hey, what are

1158
00:42:53,333 --> 00:42:55,166
you doing? And where are you going?

1159
00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:57,625
What do you like to achieve? And before

1160
00:42:57,625 --> 00:42:58,416
you know it, you have an

1161
00:42:58,416 --> 00:42:59,750
amazing conversation about

1162
00:43:00,083 --> 00:43:02,708
this enormous potential or innovation or

1163
00:43:02,708 --> 00:43:05,458
opportunity that someone sees, which

1164
00:43:05,458 --> 00:43:06,958
other people have not seen.

1165
00:43:07,875 --> 00:43:11,375
Oh, wow, I like what you're doing. Do you

1166
00:43:11,375 --> 00:43:12,666
want me to help you? Right?

1167
00:43:13,083 --> 00:43:15,291
Yeah, happy to do. And right,

1168
00:43:15,375 --> 00:43:19,458
that's where that's where in my view is a

1169
00:43:19,458 --> 00:43:22,708
lot of lost opportunity. If you

1170
00:43:23,291 --> 00:43:25,333
you need to consider what does the other

1171
00:43:25,333 --> 00:43:27,291
person want to achieve? And

1172
00:43:27,291 --> 00:43:30,875
and if you forget about that,

1173
00:43:31,833 --> 00:43:34,250
how could it become a collaboration if

1174
00:43:34,250 --> 00:43:35,166
you're only looking to

1175
00:43:35,166 --> 00:43:36,250
achieve your own goals?

1176
00:43:36,791 --> 00:43:39,583
It cannot work. It's only it might work

1177
00:43:39,583 --> 00:43:43,000
once, but then it ends. But instead, if

1178
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:43,750
you turn it around, hey,

1179
00:43:43,958 --> 00:43:46,791
what are you doing? What do you want to

1180
00:43:46,791 --> 00:43:48,750
achieve? And then you can also decide for

1181
00:43:48,750 --> 00:43:50,083
yourself whether it fits or not.

1182
00:43:50,791 --> 00:43:53,416
Yeah, but this is where where it starts

1183
00:43:53,416 --> 00:43:55,625
with and also in

1184
00:43:55,625 --> 00:43:57,208
business development in general,

1185
00:43:57,875 --> 00:44:00,000
you should never try coming back to

1186
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,458
consumer goods, right? Don't develop what

1187
00:44:02,458 --> 00:44:04,000
you like yourself. No,

1188
00:44:04,375 --> 00:44:07,125
develop what your customer or your target

1189
00:44:07,125 --> 00:44:08,333
audience is looking for.

1190
00:44:08,791 --> 00:44:10,333
I think the same goes for

1191
00:44:10,333 --> 00:44:12,458
collaboration. If you want to become a

1192
00:44:12,458 --> 00:44:15,166
successful collaborator. Yeah, I'm

1193
00:44:15,166 --> 00:44:16,666
definitely not an expert, but I believe

1194
00:44:16,666 --> 00:44:20,750
like ask for what your your your your

1195
00:44:20,750 --> 00:44:23,000
opponent, not not the opponent, your your

1196
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:24,875
collaborate, your potential collaborator

1197
00:44:24,875 --> 00:44:27,458
is looking for. Yeah. Yeah.

1198
00:44:27,791 --> 00:44:30,041
I'm going to find a word the right word.

1199
00:44:30,041 --> 00:44:32,541
No, I know. You're right. You're

1200
00:44:32,541 --> 00:44:33,708
completely right. You know, it's

1201
00:44:33,708 --> 00:44:34,791
interesting, too, because we had a

1202
00:44:34,791 --> 00:44:36,166
workshop this morning just before we did

1203
00:44:36,166 --> 00:44:37,583
this recording, as I mentioned, we met.

1204
00:44:37,625 --> 00:44:39,750
And we had Natalie on and she's been

1205
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:41,625
great at for communicating and she talks

1206
00:44:41,625 --> 00:44:44,125
about this sort of strategy of flipping

1207
00:44:44,125 --> 00:44:47,041
the script on on people when you

1208
00:44:47,041 --> 00:44:48,708
communicate with people to get them

1209
00:44:48,708 --> 00:44:50,916
interested instead of saying, you know,

1210
00:44:50,916 --> 00:44:54,250
my mission or what we're trying to do or,

1211
00:44:54,250 --> 00:44:56,333
you know, collectively, our mission is to

1212
00:44:56,333 --> 00:45:00,375
do this is to include, you know, them in

1213
00:45:00,375 --> 00:45:02,916
the, you know, partnerships or you with

1214
00:45:02,916 --> 00:45:04,833
and this and that. And I feel like the

1215
00:45:04,833 --> 00:45:05,625
same thing when you do

1216
00:45:05,625 --> 00:45:06,750
any kind of collaboration.

1217
00:45:07,875 --> 00:45:10,166
Yeah, you know, is is like just as you

1218
00:45:10,166 --> 00:45:11,416
mentioned, like, what's your mission?

1219
00:45:11,416 --> 00:45:12,583
Like, what do you what are you trying to

1220
00:45:12,583 --> 00:45:15,166
accomplish? And then I think the key is

1221
00:45:15,166 --> 00:45:19,166
how your project or like say, so if we're

1222
00:45:19,166 --> 00:45:21,083
collaborating, like we like we are now,

1223
00:45:21,583 --> 00:45:22,625
you know, the key is like,

1224
00:45:22,625 --> 00:45:23,583
hey, you have this platform,

1225
00:45:23,625 --> 00:45:24,666
right? I'm a form of alien. I really

1226
00:45:24,666 --> 00:45:27,875
believe in it. So now you're trying to

1227
00:45:27,875 --> 00:45:30,666
accomplish certain goals. So my goal is

1228
00:45:30,666 --> 00:45:33,500
like, how can I use what I have in terms

1229
00:45:33,500 --> 00:45:36,708
of my project to benefit you? You know,

1230
00:45:36,708 --> 00:45:38,333
and so I come up like as I hear what

1231
00:45:38,333 --> 00:45:39,916
you're trying to do, I'm like, okay, now

1232
00:45:39,916 --> 00:45:42,250
the the ideas are running. Here's some

1233
00:45:42,250 --> 00:45:45,083
ideas. What do you think if we did this?

1234
00:45:45,083 --> 00:45:46,958
You know, come on the podcast, talk about

1235
00:45:46,958 --> 00:45:48,958
a number of different things within, you

1236
00:45:48,958 --> 00:45:51,416
know, with working with people and the

1237
00:45:51,416 --> 00:45:52,750
platform and stuff like

1238
00:45:52,750 --> 00:45:53,583
that. And you're like,

1239
00:45:53,625 --> 00:45:54,541
you know, I'm a person and you go back is

1240
00:45:54,541 --> 00:45:55,625
like, well, why don't you come to some of

1241
00:45:55,625 --> 00:45:56,875
these workshops and go through the

1242
00:45:56,875 --> 00:45:58,208
storytelling workshops and everything.

1243
00:45:58,791 --> 00:46:01,166
And it and that's how I feel like that's

1244
00:46:01,166 --> 00:46:04,000
how it works, right? Is the key is to not

1245
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,375
only not not only add value to that

1246
00:46:06,375 --> 00:46:07,833
person to help them accomplish their

1247
00:46:07,833 --> 00:46:10,291
goals, but also do it in a form where

1248
00:46:10,291 --> 00:46:11,625
it's like, well, this is what I'm doing.

1249
00:46:11,875 --> 00:46:13,291
And I think this is where I can help.

1250
00:46:13,666 --> 00:46:15,166
What are your thoughts on it? Right?

1251
00:46:15,166 --> 00:46:17,833
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, now that I'm

1252
00:46:17,833 --> 00:46:20,416
thinking about it, you need to tell me

1253
00:46:20,416 --> 00:46:22,291
how you did this. But now

1254
00:46:22,291 --> 00:46:23,583
that I'm thinking about it,

1255
00:46:23,625 --> 00:46:25,541
what one of the things that we

1256
00:46:25,541 --> 00:46:30,250
drastically changed is we we really made

1257
00:46:30,250 --> 00:46:33,833
a careful decision to put everything

1258
00:46:33,833 --> 00:46:37,125
we're doing out in the open. So you can

1259
00:46:37,125 --> 00:46:40,625
find our fully transparent, you can find

1260
00:46:40,625 --> 00:46:42,333
our handbook and how we deal with each

1261
00:46:42,333 --> 00:46:44,625
other, how we're organized, everything is

1262
00:46:44,625 --> 00:46:47,708
out in the open. And yeah, why not,

1263
00:46:47,708 --> 00:46:49,291
right? We have not we don't have anything

1264
00:46:49,291 --> 00:46:52,291
to hide. If you're collaborating, there

1265
00:46:52,291 --> 00:46:53,583
needs to be a certain base of

1266
00:46:53,625 --> 00:46:56,916
trust. And we really started wondering

1267
00:46:56,916 --> 00:47:00,208
for ourselves, why should we hide

1268
00:47:00,208 --> 00:47:02,958
anything? Do we have secrets? Should

1269
00:47:02,958 --> 00:47:04,291
there be something that other people

1270
00:47:04,291 --> 00:47:06,083
should not know? Right. And we came to

1271
00:47:06,083 --> 00:47:08,375
the conclusion. It's not like that there.

1272
00:47:08,375 --> 00:47:13,416
There is none. So we're communicating as

1273
00:47:13,416 --> 00:47:15,750
openly as we can. We're we're started, we

1274
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:17,833
make mistakes, we make a lot of mistakes.

1275
00:47:19,166 --> 00:47:23,083
And if you don't mind, just tell me.

1276
00:47:23,625 --> 00:47:26,083
Well, correct it. And in return, I can

1277
00:47:26,083 --> 00:47:29,000
help you as well. Yeah, very different,

1278
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,500
very different. And in a way, for me,

1279
00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:33,625
it's very refreshing. And this is also

1280
00:47:33,625 --> 00:47:35,708
what I sensed in our collaboration,

1281
00:47:35,708 --> 00:47:39,625
right? There's a lot more openness in

1282
00:47:39,625 --> 00:47:44,666
when we first met. And yeah, I'm also

1283
00:47:44,666 --> 00:47:46,625
curious to see how you do that, then,

1284
00:47:46,625 --> 00:47:48,583
right? You need to bring a lot of people

1285
00:47:48,583 --> 00:47:51,416
together as well. Yeah, yeah.

1286
00:47:51,458 --> 00:47:53,291
And it brings a lot of curiosity. How do

1287
00:47:53,291 --> 00:47:54,958
others people other people do that? And

1288
00:47:54,958 --> 00:47:56,666
yeah, sometimes it's just a matter of

1289
00:47:56,666 --> 00:48:00,833
asking. Yeah, it's true. And I like how

1290
00:48:00,833 --> 00:48:02,375
you mentioned the transparency. That's a

1291
00:48:02,375 --> 00:48:04,875
that's an important aspect. You know, one

1292
00:48:04,875 --> 00:48:06,125
of the things that I've done through the

1293
00:48:06,125 --> 00:48:09,291
podcast is I don't edit my interviews.

1294
00:48:09,291 --> 00:48:11,041
You know, I tell people I don't unless

1295
00:48:11,041 --> 00:48:12,833
they there's something that they said

1296
00:48:12,833 --> 00:48:14,083
that they're like, Hey, you know what,

1297
00:48:14,083 --> 00:48:15,291
Andrew, like, I shouldn't have said that

1298
00:48:15,291 --> 00:48:16,708
that was a project that was coming out

1299
00:48:16,708 --> 00:48:19,458
later. And, you know, before that and

1300
00:48:19,458 --> 00:48:20,708
that kind of stuff. But

1301
00:48:20,708 --> 00:48:21,458
for the most part, I don't

1302
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:21,583
want to be as. I want to, I think they're
better, better. I want to be as upfront.

1303
00:48:21,583 --> 00:48:23,375
And the reason why is is the trust,

1304
00:48:23,625 --> 00:48:25,166
right? Is to be like look, this is the

1305
00:48:25,166 --> 00:48:26,500
conversation that we had. I don't want to

1306
00:48:26,500 --> 00:48:29,666
be to be known as manipulating the

1307
00:48:29,666 --> 00:48:31,083
interview. And the reason why did that

1308
00:48:31,083 --> 00:48:32,916
when I especially when I first started, I

1309
00:48:32,916 --> 00:48:35,333
really focused on that telling people is

1310
00:48:35,333 --> 00:48:36,541
because a lot of the scientists that I

1311
00:48:36,541 --> 00:48:39,500
was talking to you had had bad

1312
00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:42,833
experiences with, you know, bad press,

1313
00:48:43,166 --> 00:48:45,125
like bad journal. Yeah, sure. And and,

1314
00:48:45,125 --> 00:48:46,666
and so forth. Not to say that any

1315
00:48:51,458 --> 00:48:53,208
manipulated in a different way and they

1316
00:48:53,208 --> 00:48:55,125
didn't like it. So they didn't trust the

1317
00:48:55,125 --> 00:48:56,750
media. And so I said,

1318
00:48:56,750 --> 00:48:58,416
look, I'm a scientist. One of the reasons

1319
00:48:58,416 --> 00:49:00,458
why I'm doing this is to get your

1320
00:49:00,458 --> 00:49:01,416
information out there.

1321
00:49:01,416 --> 00:49:03,250
So I'm here to promote you. I'm here to

1322
00:49:03,250 --> 00:49:04,166
promote the work that you

1323
00:49:04,166 --> 00:49:07,458
do. I listened to or read your

1324
00:49:07,458 --> 00:49:10,041
work and I'm a big fan of it. And I want

1325
00:49:10,041 --> 00:49:11,291
people to know about the

1326
00:49:11,291 --> 00:49:12,291
project that you're doing or

1327
00:49:12,291 --> 00:49:13,833
the study that you just published on it

1328
00:49:13,833 --> 00:49:15,541
and so forth. And that

1329
00:49:15,541 --> 00:49:17,375
really garnered a lot. People are

1330
00:49:17,416 --> 00:49:19,166
more relaxed when you do the interview.

1331
00:49:19,625 --> 00:49:20,291
You know, they're not as

1332
00:49:20,291 --> 00:49:21,250
uptight. They're not as nervous.

1333
00:49:21,583 --> 00:49:23,333
It's more like this kind of like this is

1334
00:49:23,333 --> 00:49:25,083
more of a conversation. And

1335
00:49:25,083 --> 00:49:26,541
I think it's a very important

1336
00:49:26,541 --> 00:49:29,916
aspect to the work that I do. And not a

1337
00:49:29,916 --> 00:49:31,041
lot. I never, I don't usually

1338
00:49:31,041 --> 00:49:32,208
advertise it because I don't

1339
00:49:32,208 --> 00:49:34,083
need to because like the conversation is

1340
00:49:34,083 --> 00:49:35,041
all out there. And it's

1341
00:49:35,041 --> 00:49:36,125
kind of funny because I've had,

1342
00:49:36,333 --> 00:49:37,875
you know, some people, not many, but some

1343
00:49:37,875 --> 00:49:39,625
people who are just like, oh, well, you

1344
00:49:39,625 --> 00:49:40,333
know, your interviews

1345
00:49:40,333 --> 00:49:42,333
are like really long. And, you know, do

1346
00:49:42,333 --> 00:49:44,125
you need to know every bit of detail

1347
00:49:44,125 --> 00:49:45,208
about that person? And

1348
00:49:45,208 --> 00:49:48,500
you're just like, no, you don't. But it

1349
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:50,750
also goes towards that personality of

1350
00:49:50,750 --> 00:49:52,000
that scientist or that

1351
00:49:52,083 --> 00:49:54,166
conservationist or that person, my guest.

1352
00:49:54,750 --> 00:49:55,500
And people get to know

1353
00:49:55,500 --> 00:49:57,500
them a little bit more. Plus,

1354
00:49:57,875 --> 00:49:59,291
you know, I published everything because

1355
00:49:59,291 --> 00:50:00,750
I don't want it to be, I don't want to

1356
00:50:00,750 --> 00:50:01,750
like just cut it and

1357
00:50:01,750 --> 00:50:04,583
cut it and cut it and try and manipulate

1358
00:50:04,583 --> 00:50:06,958
it into a different story. I want the

1359
00:50:06,958 --> 00:50:08,000
conversation. I want

1360
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:09,333
people to like basically you're sitting

1361
00:50:09,333 --> 00:50:10,625
in on a conversation I'm

1362
00:50:10,625 --> 00:50:11,583
having. That's why I started the

1363
00:50:11,625 --> 00:50:14,833
podcast and how that's the focus of the

1364
00:50:14,833 --> 00:50:15,708
structure of the

1365
00:50:15,708 --> 00:50:17,166
podcast. And I think that's

1366
00:50:17,291 --> 00:50:19,541
important, but it goes back to my point

1367
00:50:19,541 --> 00:50:20,666
of the, and your point of the

1368
00:50:20,666 --> 00:50:22,166
transparency and trust to

1369
00:50:22,208 --> 00:50:24,041
build. And then at the end of the

1370
00:50:24,041 --> 00:50:26,041
episode, people are like, I love this.

1371
00:50:26,041 --> 00:50:27,875
Like this was a lot of fun to do.

1372
00:50:28,625 --> 00:50:30,166
Can we do another one? You know, I've had

1373
00:50:30,166 --> 00:50:31,916
people ask right off the bat, like, hey,

1374
00:50:31,916 --> 00:50:32,625
let's meet and let's

1375
00:50:32,625 --> 00:50:34,083
do another one. Like this is a lot of

1376
00:50:34,083 --> 00:50:37,000
fun. Yeah, that's how my podcast, you

1377
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,333
already promised me one.

1378
00:50:38,333 --> 00:50:41,291
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like right off the

1379
00:50:41,291 --> 00:50:42,958
bat. But I mean, I know you more like

1380
00:50:42,958 --> 00:50:43,875
we've had conversations

1381
00:50:44,083 --> 00:50:45,958
and stuff. But you know, like, like it's

1382
00:50:45,958 --> 00:50:48,166
it but it's an important aspect for

1383
00:50:48,166 --> 00:50:50,833
people to enjoy the,

1384
00:50:51,958 --> 00:50:54,833
you know, the enjoy the process. You

1385
00:50:54,833 --> 00:50:57,000
know, I want them to have a good time on

1386
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,208
the on the show when

1387
00:50:58,208 --> 00:50:59,250
they're recording because it can be

1388
00:50:59,250 --> 00:51:01,375
intimidating. You know, the what you

1389
00:51:01,375 --> 00:51:02,333
know, I remember when I

1390
00:51:02,333 --> 00:51:03,833
first started when I turned that

1391
00:51:03,833 --> 00:51:05,875
microphone on and press record, I was

1392
00:51:05,875 --> 00:51:09,916
like, Oh, gosh, like this is not, you

1393
00:51:09,916 --> 00:51:11,000
know, you get nervous, you

1394
00:51:11,125 --> 00:51:12,666
worry about what you say, I want people

1395
00:51:12,666 --> 00:51:15,291
to be relaxed, you know, that you're in

1396
00:51:15,291 --> 00:51:17,041
good hands, and I'll, I'll bring you

1397
00:51:17,041 --> 00:51:19,541
through it. And that's why I find we've

1398
00:51:19,541 --> 00:51:21,500
had such great experiences with with

1399
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:22,208
interviews and

1400
00:51:22,208 --> 00:51:23,541
conversations, we've been able

1401
00:51:23,541 --> 00:51:26,458
to talk about some difficult topics that

1402
00:51:26,458 --> 00:51:27,791
have been that have been talked about.

1403
00:51:27,791 --> 00:51:30,875
But trust is a huge aspect to that. And

1404
00:51:30,916 --> 00:51:32,666
and I think you're right. I think it's a

1405
00:51:32,666 --> 00:51:36,541
it's a big part of of collaborations, you

1406
00:51:36,541 --> 00:51:37,583
know, is to have that

1407
00:51:37,583 --> 00:51:39,125
transparency and have that trust.

1408
00:51:39,666 --> 00:51:41,875
Yeah, well, thanks for sharing it. I

1409
00:51:41,875 --> 00:51:43,416
liked it. I liked it did the overlap

1410
00:51:43,416 --> 00:51:45,875
there. And I can confirm I wasn't

1411
00:51:45,875 --> 00:51:48,791
nervous. Right, right. It does work. It

1412
00:51:48,791 --> 00:51:52,708
does work. Yeah. The

1413
00:51:53,541 --> 00:51:56,625
trust is a super important thing. And for

1414
00:51:56,625 --> 00:51:58,958
me, it also starts with authenticity. You

1415
00:51:58,958 --> 00:52:00,708
cannot be someone else because all the

1416
00:52:00,708 --> 00:52:05,875
others are already taken. And in a way,

1417
00:52:06,458 --> 00:52:10,625
if you're open about who you are, yeah,

1418
00:52:10,875 --> 00:52:16,083
that helps a lot. And people sense it

1419
00:52:16,083 --> 00:52:17,708
when you're not honest about what you're

1420
00:52:17,708 --> 00:52:20,375
doing. Yeah. So why hide it?

1421
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,125
Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure.

1422
00:52:23,541 --> 00:52:25,166
I think I think you're right. Look, this

1423
00:52:25,166 --> 00:52:28,458
has been an amazing conversation. I love

1424
00:52:28,458 --> 00:52:29,916
talking about this because I think it

1425
00:52:29,916 --> 00:52:31,625
really brings out into the open. There's

1426
00:52:31,625 --> 00:52:33,791
a lot of people who've had some good,

1427
00:52:33,791 --> 00:52:36,375
great experiences and awful experiences

1428
00:52:36,375 --> 00:52:38,708
on the other end of that spectrum with

1429
00:52:38,708 --> 00:52:40,916
collaborations. And I think it's great to

1430
00:52:40,916 --> 00:52:44,375
be able to discuss what to expect, you

1431
00:52:44,375 --> 00:52:46,208
know, and and I think also, you know,

1432
00:52:46,208 --> 00:52:48,041
being up front with people like, look, I

1433
00:52:48,041 --> 00:52:49,291
want to have this conversation. I want

1434
00:52:49,291 --> 00:52:51,541
both of us to benefit from this

1435
00:52:51,541 --> 00:52:52,666
relationship if this is

1436
00:52:52,666 --> 00:52:53,458
going to move forward.

1437
00:52:53,541 --> 00:52:55,208
And if not, then that's fine. You know,

1438
00:52:55,208 --> 00:52:57,666
if you don't see, I always tell people if

1439
00:52:57,666 --> 00:53:00,041
we don't see a eye to eye on certain

1440
00:53:00,041 --> 00:53:01,916
things, there's no hard feelings and we

1441
00:53:01,916 --> 00:53:04,500
just go for it. As long as we both get

1442
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:06,750
value out of it, then it works well. And

1443
00:53:06,750 --> 00:53:08,375
I think that's what a lot of people need

1444
00:53:08,375 --> 00:53:10,500
to. I think we almost have to teach that

1445
00:53:10,500 --> 00:53:11,541
a little bit in terms of what

1446
00:53:11,541 --> 00:53:13,541
collaborations will look like and what it

1447
00:53:13,541 --> 00:53:15,125
should look like and what it shouldn't

1448
00:53:15,125 --> 00:53:17,708
look like. And I think that's an

1449
00:53:17,708 --> 00:53:19,458
important aspect. So, Bart, this was

1450
00:53:19,458 --> 00:53:21,916
amazing to do this. I

1451
00:53:21,916 --> 00:53:22,500
want to have you back here.

1452
00:53:22,541 --> 00:53:24,500
I want to have you back on very, very

1453
00:53:24,500 --> 00:53:25,833
shortly. We're going to have a lot of

1454
00:53:25,833 --> 00:53:28,791
conversations because it'd be a lot of

1455
00:53:28,791 --> 00:53:32,041
fun. But but yeah, so if people want to

1456
00:53:32,041 --> 00:53:33,708
know where they can get more information

1457
00:53:33,708 --> 00:53:35,833
on you, where shall we send them?

1458
00:53:36,541 --> 00:53:38,250
Yeah, well, we have our website, of

1459
00:53:38,250 --> 00:53:41,708
course. But some. Yeah, a website is just

1460
00:53:41,708 --> 00:53:44,125
one thing. There's always a thought

1461
00:53:44,125 --> 00:53:47,208
behind it. And in the end, it's just a

1462
00:53:47,208 --> 00:53:48,250
screen that you're watching.

1463
00:53:49,541 --> 00:53:51,333
If you feel like, oh, wow, I like what

1464
00:53:51,333 --> 00:53:53,541
these guys are doing, or I like the

1465
00:53:53,541 --> 00:53:55,125
story. Yeah, just reach out to us. We

1466
00:53:55,125 --> 00:53:57,875
have a contact form. We are on LinkedIn.

1467
00:53:58,708 --> 00:54:00,916
So yeah, feel free to reach out. And

1468
00:54:00,916 --> 00:54:05,541
that's how we have been working with Ford

1469
00:54:05,541 --> 00:54:07,833
now, officially six months.

1470
00:54:08,625 --> 00:54:12,791
We started a bit earlier. But also how we

1471
00:54:12,791 --> 00:54:14,500
met, right? So yeah, exactly.

1472
00:54:15,541 --> 00:54:19,041
I like what they're doing, or I have this

1473
00:54:19,041 --> 00:54:21,625
thought. Yeah, happy to learn. It's not

1474
00:54:21,625 --> 00:54:23,791
so much about teaching. It's more about

1475
00:54:23,791 --> 00:54:24,666
learning for myself.

1476
00:54:25,833 --> 00:54:27,333
Absolutely. Absolutely. No, perfect. I

1477
00:54:27,333 --> 00:54:29,333
love that. We'll put the website in the

1478
00:54:29,333 --> 00:54:32,708
show notes. It's baileyand.org. Yeah. And

1479
00:54:32,708 --> 00:54:34,333
so put that in there so people can get a

1480
00:54:34,333 --> 00:54:36,166
and we'll put right to the link right to

1481
00:54:36,166 --> 00:54:37,708
the contact page too. So if people want

1482
00:54:37,708 --> 00:54:39,166
to get in touch with you, they can.

1483
00:54:39,541 --> 00:54:42,125
Bart, thank you so much for having coming

1484
00:54:42,125 --> 00:54:44,000
on the podcast and we love having you on

1485
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,041
and looking forward to having you on

1486
00:54:45,041 --> 00:54:47,250
again. Yeah. Yeah. Now we're still small.

1487
00:54:47,250 --> 00:54:49,125
So also we need to build our.

1488
00:54:49,916 --> 00:54:52,083
Yeah, so happy to do that. Thanks,

1489
00:54:52,083 --> 00:54:56,125
Andrew. I like your your openness in in

1490
00:54:56,125 --> 00:54:58,875
sharing your experiences that I also

1491
00:54:58,875 --> 00:55:00,041
learned a lot from you here.

1492
00:55:00,666 --> 00:55:01,708
Absolutely. Well, there's you know,

1493
00:55:01,708 --> 00:55:02,916
there's trust. We got to build with the

1494
00:55:02,916 --> 00:55:04,708
audience too. And so showing where you

1495
00:55:04,708 --> 00:55:07,125
came from all the time and then the value

1496
00:55:07,125 --> 00:55:09,666
that they bring to me is amazing as well.

1497
00:55:10,041 --> 00:55:11,750
Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah. All right.

1498
00:55:12,125 --> 00:55:13,416
Awesome. We'll talk to you.

1499
00:55:13,875 --> 00:55:14,500
Yeah, we'll be soon. Yeah.

1500
00:55:14,541 --> 00:55:16,625
Thank you, Bart, for joining us on

1501
00:55:16,625 --> 00:55:18,041
today's episode of the How to Protect the

1502
00:55:18,041 --> 00:55:19,625
Ocean podcast. It was great to be able to

1503
00:55:19,625 --> 00:55:22,375
talk to you about collaborations about

1504
00:55:22,375 --> 00:55:24,916
Balian and what it could do and what a

1505
00:55:24,916 --> 00:55:27,291
good collaboration can do to help get

1506
00:55:27,291 --> 00:55:29,125
people to the next level of their mission

1507
00:55:29,125 --> 00:55:30,500
to help protect the ocean.

1508
00:55:30,541 --> 00:55:32,666
It's always important to be able to

1509
00:55:32,666 --> 00:55:34,541
discuss this. And so if you want to

1510
00:55:34,541 --> 00:55:35,958
follow up with Bart, if you have any

1511
00:55:35,958 --> 00:55:37,833
questions, you can do so. Go to Balian

1512
00:55:37,833 --> 00:55:42,000
dot org. So it's B A L E A N dot org.

1513
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,833
That's B A L E A N dot org. There will be

1514
00:55:44,833 --> 00:55:46,791
a link in the show notes or in the

1515
00:55:46,791 --> 00:55:48,041
description below if you're watching this

1516
00:55:48,041 --> 00:55:50,083
on YouTube. Love to hear your comments.

1517
00:55:50,333 --> 00:55:51,750
So if you want to put your comments down

1518
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:54,541
below or send me an email, go to

1519
00:55:54,541 --> 00:55:57,250
speakupforblue.com forward slash contact

1520
00:55:57,250 --> 00:55:59,125
and just fill out the form. But also

1521
00:55:59,125 --> 00:55:59,500
you'll see me in the email.

1522
00:55:59,541 --> 00:56:01,541
You'll see me in the undertow in that

1523
00:56:01,541 --> 00:56:03,500
community can go to speakupforblue.com

1524
00:56:03,500 --> 00:56:06,125
forward slash join the undertow to join

1525
00:56:06,125 --> 00:56:08,458
that group and you'll see a lot more of

1526
00:56:08,458 --> 00:56:10,625
lead in there. So I want to thank Bart,

1527
00:56:10,625 --> 00:56:11,916
our guest. It's the first time, but not

1528
00:56:11,916 --> 00:56:13,416
the last time he'll be on. And I want to

1529
00:56:13,416 --> 00:56:14,833
thank him for being on. It was great to

1530
00:56:14,833 --> 00:56:16,583
have him on being so transparent, so

1531
00:56:16,583 --> 00:56:18,458
collaborative. And I want to thank you,

1532
00:56:18,750 --> 00:56:19,916
the listener, for listening to this

1533
00:56:19,916 --> 00:56:21,375
episode of the How to Protect the Ocean

1534
00:56:21,375 --> 00:56:22,875
podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin.

1535
00:56:23,166 --> 00:56:24,791
From the true north strong and free. Have

1536
00:56:24,791 --> 00:56:26,208
a great day. We'll talk to you next time

1537
00:56:26,208 --> 00:56:27,250
and happy conservation.