From Oceanographer to Eco-Baker: Maddie Hamann on Building a Sustainable Bread Brand to Help Protect the Ocean

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Welcome back to the podcast. We have a

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special episode for you

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today because this is an ongoing

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thing that I've been trying to do for the

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podcast. I talk a lot about oceans and

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protecting the ocean.

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And this is why you're here. You're here

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because of how to protect the ocean.

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That's the name of this

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podcast. Well, we protect the ocean by

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supporting businesses who

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have values that are there for

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that are good for the ocean. And today we

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are showcasing one of

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those businesses that talk

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about these values that have these values

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to not only just make people

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happy, but also just because

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this is what's important to them. You

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know, protecting the

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environment, making something

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healthy, taking away chemicals from food.

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And today we're going

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to be talking to Maddie

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Hemman, who's actually a former

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oceanographer, well educated

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oceanographer who is here to talk

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about the business that she co-founded

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with her husband called

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Pacha, which is a buckwheat bread,

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a loaf of bread that you can buy in the

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US and you can enjoy. It's tasty. It's

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healthy. It's made

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with not only love, but

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actually healthy things that are good for

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your body, less chemicals or no chemicals

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and just something that's really good.

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She tells us how she makes the bread, how

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they make the bread, how the company came

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to be, how she went from oceanography to

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supporting an organization or starting a

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company, co-founding a company that has

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to do with selling bread. We're going to

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talk all about that on today's episode of

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the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back to another

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exciting episode of the How to Protect

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the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew

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Lewin. And this is the podcast where you

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find out what's happening with the ocean,

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how you could speak up for the ocean and

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what you can do to live for a better

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ocean by taking action.

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Now, today's episode, we're going to be

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talking with Maddie Hemman, who is an

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oceanographer and an engineer and someone

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who's quite intelligent and says, you

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know what, I want to make

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a difference in the world.

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So I am going to co-found a company that

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sells buckwheat bread. Now, did I expect

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that to happen when I first heard about

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Patche, the company that she

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co-founded with her husband?

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No, I didn't expect to hear that one bit.

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But as I got to know more and more about

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the story, I started to think to myself,

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I said, hey, you know what, this is

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something that I think the

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audience would really appreciate.

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You know, somebody who changed their path

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multiple times because they wanted to

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have an effect on the planet. They wanted

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to do something that's good, not only for

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the planet, for the people who live on

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this planet. And she does that for her

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customers. She does that for the

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company's customers. And they have values

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that are good. And do they market based

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on, hey, we do some good things. We have

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really good values for the environment,

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for the planet and for you? No. They say,

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this is great bread. You're going to want

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to eat it because it's tasty. And it's a

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little good for you too, but it's really

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tasty. You're going to want it. And

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that's how they market it.

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I thought it was a really good episode

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that I think everybody should listen to.

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So enjoy this interview with Maddie

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Harmon, former oceanographer now

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co-founder of Patra bread enjoy and I

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will talk to you after.

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Hey, Maddie, welcome to the how to

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protect the ocean podcast. Are you ready

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to talk about Patra and regenerative

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agriculture all in the context of

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protecting the

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environment and growing a business?

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Let's do this. All right. I'm excited for

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this because as I mentioned, like this is

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a fun podcast. The stuff I've been

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wanting to do for a long time, I'm having

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businesses on that are good for the

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environment that allow us to make better

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decisions for the ocean and for the

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environment in general, reducing climate

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change and so forth. And people can make

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a buck. And it just goes to show that you

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can you can grow your revenue and you can

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protect the ocean and the planet at the

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same time. So I'm really happy that

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you're here to share your journey.

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It's an interesting one because you do

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have a background in oceanography. So

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we're going to talk about that. But let's

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get to know you a little bit and then

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we'll get to know Patra a little bit. So

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why don't you just let us know, Maddie,

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who you are and what you do.

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Yeah, so yeah, my name is Maddie Hamon

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and I am the co-founder and director of

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marketing for Patra. We make a an organic

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gluten free sprouted buckwheat bread and

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it is delicious and nutritious.

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And at the same time, it is supporting

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regenerative

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agriculture and saving the planet.

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That's awesome. That's awesome. Now you

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got your start in oceanography like you

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got that's that's what you went to school

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for. How did all that happen? Did you

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want to be an oceanographer when you were

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a kid? Can you take us

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through that process?

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Yeah. So no, I wasn't the kid that always

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like always dreamed of being a marine

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biologist. I, you know, I, I was a I was

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a super nerd in school was like always

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the A plus student really good at math.

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And my journey kind of was like, well, I

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should just do the hardest thing because

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it's always you can always switch out of

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the hardest thing if harder, you don't

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like it or whatever.

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And yeah, so I went to school for civil

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engineering for my bachelor's degree. And

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sometime along the way, I realized like,

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I don't really want to design highway

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overpasses for the rest of my life. That

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led me to fluid mechanics.

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And my one of my mentors in college, I

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took some of his graduate

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level classes on turbulence and

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he kind of introduced me to the idea of

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oceanography. Okay. And, you know, from

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the from the perspective of a civil

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engineer, oceanography is studied like,

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okay, well, how can we protect our

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coastal infrastructure? How can we

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understand how storms are

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going to impact humans, etc.

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Yeah, very much like the Army Corps of

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Engineers, essentially.

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Yeah, yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And but

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through that, I discovered like, oh,

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well, there's people who are just purely

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studying the science of the ocean and the

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physics of the ocean. And so that is then

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I found myself interested in that and

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pursuing a graduate degree in physical

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oceanography after college.

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And again, it was in some ways, it was

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like, this seems like a really good way

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for me to use the very particular like

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math and science skills that I gained to

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help humanity. I was motivated by the I

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mean, I came from the Midwest and my

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understanding of what was happening with

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the planet was like,

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okay, the climate is changing.

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And I was like, we must not know enough

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about it. Otherwise, like, things would

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be different. And so I thought going into

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grad school that understanding more about

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the climate and and how the ocean impacts

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the whole ocean climate system would be

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the best way for me to help with the

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issue of climate change.

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And I think, I mean, as I was incredibly

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interesting and an amazing experience I

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learned so much. And the more I learned,

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the more I realized,

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like, wow, we know a lot.

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And I think that really knowing what was

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happening was not the thing that was

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going to start changing our behavior as a

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species on this planet. And there's some

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time in my third or fourth year, I

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realized that I probably would not pursue

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pure research as my as my life, I thought

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I would maybe get into science

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and education or, you know, some

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something in that vein. Yeah. And then it

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was in the last two years of my time as

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an oceanographer that I met my partner,

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Adam. He's my husband, he's my co

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founder. And he introduced me to the

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concept of regenerative agriculture.

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And he has been he's a serial

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entrepreneur. Okay. And he has founded

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businesses, catering restaurants, and

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then most recently, a business called

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Boochcraft that makes a hard kombucha.

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And he was in a, when at the time we met,

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he was in the space of

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there was modern

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of his roles at those companies and found

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himself in a place like, "Well, I'm ready

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for the next thing." And that happened to

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be this bread, what we

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now call Pacha bread.

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And yeah, he kind of got the ball rolling

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and pretty soon in the

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early days, I realized

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that I wanted to be involved because I

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saw the opportunity to

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really use business to

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shift the paradigm that the food system

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is currently in, in a way

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that actually sequesters

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carbon and actually makes a big

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difference for many

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ways for the environment.

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Yeah, it's really interesting. You had

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quite the journey going

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from engineering to, okay,

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I know a lot about this, you know,

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getting into grad school,

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I want to learn more about

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climate change and some of the things

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that we are, you know,

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what do we know and how

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can I help, you know, contribute to that

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knowledge? And you're

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like, "Well, hold on

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a second. We know way too much about

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this, but we're not

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changing." Like, which is so

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true. Like we do know a lot. We're still

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discovering things, but we do know a lot.

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It seems like every time we discovered it

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becomes more and more

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grim and doom and gloom,

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and then we're look around and people

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aren't changing. Now you

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happen to meet your now

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husband who is also a serial

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entrepreneur, but also for

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like, seems like good for the

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planet type of businesses. And then you

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get into this. So you

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basically went from, "I'm

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going to do something and do something

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really impactful and

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hard to I'm going to change

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the way we look at things so that we can

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help this climate change thing. We know a

270
01:10:31,958 --> 01:10:33,416
lot about climate change. Now we need to

271
01:10:33,416 --> 01:10:34,041
act. So I'm going to

272
01:10:34,041 --> 01:10:37,458
help in that action." That's

273
01:10:37,458 --> 01:10:40,416
quite the jump from like doing research

274
01:10:40,416 --> 01:10:43,000
to business and did

275
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:44,958
that. Did you find that a

276
01:10:45,083 --> 01:10:45,958
difficult, like that to

277
01:10:45,958 --> 01:10:47,416
be a difficult transition?

278
01:10:49,750 --> 01:10:53,458
I mean, yes and no. I studied

279
01:10:53,458 --> 01:10:55,208
observational oceanography.

280
01:10:55,583 --> 01:10:57,833
So my group, my advisor and

281
01:10:57,875 --> 01:11:00,541
my group, we would go out to sea and we

282
01:11:00,541 --> 01:11:01,416
would, you know, we'd

283
01:11:01,416 --> 01:11:02,875
write grants, we would build

284
01:11:02,875 --> 01:11:04,458
instrumentation, we would take a whole

285
01:11:04,458 --> 01:11:05,833
crew of engineers and

286
01:11:05,833 --> 01:11:07,166
students out to sea to gather

287
01:11:07,166 --> 01:11:10,000
data and then we would come back and

288
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:11,666
analyze the data. And so

289
01:11:11,666 --> 01:11:14,833
really like two thirds of

290
01:11:14,833 --> 01:11:18,833
my thesis, I spent more on the side of

291
01:11:18,833 --> 01:11:20,250
like writing grants and

292
01:11:20,250 --> 01:11:23,500
administrating my own.

293
01:11:24,083 --> 01:11:26,250
I collected my own data and wrote my own

294
01:11:26,250 --> 01:11:27,750
grant and everything. So a

295
01:11:27,750 --> 01:11:29,833
lot of that was like managing

296
01:11:29,916 --> 01:11:32,916
teams. Yeah. And so those skills

297
01:11:32,916 --> 01:11:34,875
transferred pretty readily.

298
01:11:35,875 --> 01:11:37,000
And then, you know, there's

299
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:38,375
this whole section of my brain that's

300
01:11:38,375 --> 01:11:39,416
just like, knows a bunch

301
01:11:39,416 --> 01:11:40,458
of differential equations

302
01:11:40,458 --> 01:11:43,083
that I don't really need to know anymore.

303
01:11:45,125 --> 01:11:47,416
I don't know how you make the bread, but

304
01:11:47,416 --> 01:11:48,333
if you need to use

305
01:11:48,333 --> 01:11:49,208
differential equations,

306
01:11:49,458 --> 01:11:51,625
maybe you'll be that'll that'll help. But

307
01:11:51,625 --> 01:11:53,041
for now, probably not.

308
01:11:53,500 --> 01:11:54,166
But even going to like

309
01:11:54,166 --> 01:11:55,708
you had that interest in maybe science

310
01:11:55,708 --> 01:11:56,666
communication and going into

311
01:11:56,666 --> 01:11:58,416
a marketing position or taking

312
01:11:58,416 --> 01:12:00,833
a marketing position within this company

313
01:12:00,833 --> 01:12:02,291
really is saying, hey,

314
01:12:02,291 --> 01:12:03,833
look, like you look at science

315
01:12:03,833 --> 01:12:05,666
communication in a way of like changing

316
01:12:05,666 --> 01:12:07,125
behaviors around through the

317
01:12:07,125 --> 01:12:08,166
communication. And now

318
01:12:08,166 --> 01:12:09,791
you're like, okay, I want this behavior

319
01:12:09,791 --> 01:12:11,583
change to really go

320
01:12:11,583 --> 01:12:13,500
towards I want you to buy the

321
01:12:13,500 --> 01:12:15,791
bread. And so how do I convince you to

322
01:12:15,791 --> 01:12:19,833
buy this bread? And now there's always a

323
01:12:19,833 --> 01:12:21,916
divergent way of doing things for me from

324
01:12:21,916 --> 01:12:23,125
a scientific and from a nature

325
01:12:23,125 --> 01:12:25,125
based perspective, I'm just like, get

326
01:12:25,125 --> 01:12:26,458
this bread because it's it's probably

327
01:12:26,458 --> 01:12:27,916
good for you, but it's also better for

328
01:12:27,916 --> 01:12:28,833
the environment. So I'm

329
01:12:28,833 --> 01:12:30,000
going to make a decision because it's

330
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:31,791
better for the environment. But a lot of

331
01:12:31,791 --> 01:12:33,125
people who own these

332
01:12:33,125 --> 01:12:34,416
businesses are like, I want

333
01:12:34,416 --> 01:12:36,250
like people don't always buy that way.

334
01:12:36,250 --> 01:12:37,708
I'm not the right I'm probably out of the

335
01:12:37,708 --> 01:12:39,083
norm from from your regular

336
01:12:39,083 --> 01:12:40,000
customer base. And you can

337
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:42,333
correct me if I'm wrong. But how was that

338
01:12:42,333 --> 01:12:44,041
to going from convincing? Is it going

339
01:12:44,041 --> 01:12:46,125
from convincing like, oh, look, this is

340
01:12:46,125 --> 01:12:48,083
good for nature or to just be like, you

341
01:12:48,083 --> 01:12:49,416
want to buy this product because it's

342
01:12:49,416 --> 01:12:50,958
good for you. It tastes good. You know,

343
01:12:50,958 --> 01:12:52,500
it's a different way of looking up bread.

344
01:12:53,125 --> 01:12:55,625
Like, how do how is that transition going

345
01:12:55,625 --> 01:12:57,000
from a very like, you know,

346
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:00,458
oceanographic, very to the point type of

347
01:13:00,458 --> 01:13:03,291
of writing style and communication style

348
01:13:03,291 --> 01:13:06,083
to, hey, this is this is some fun bread

349
01:13:06,083 --> 01:13:07,250
for you to eat. And it's good for you.

350
01:13:07,791 --> 01:13:10,833
Yeah, I mean, I guess I'd say it's a

351
01:13:10,833 --> 01:13:12,875
different kind of to the point. But

352
01:13:12,875 --> 01:13:15,458
you're you're totally spot on. And what

353
01:13:15,458 --> 01:13:17,625
it's one of the things that has been,

354
01:13:18,291 --> 01:13:20,875
it's been a learning piece for me. And as

355
01:13:20,875 --> 01:13:22,416
you know, as somebody coming from a

356
01:13:22,416 --> 01:13:24,000
science background and into the world of

357
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,375
marketing, it's like, you, you're doing

358
01:13:27,375 --> 01:13:29,500
this dance where you're, you're you are

359
01:13:29,500 --> 01:13:33,208
in a way, communicating, like trying to

360
01:13:33,208 --> 01:13:34,333
get a message across.

361
01:13:35,041 --> 01:13:36,916
But you have to be meeting people where

362
01:13:36,916 --> 01:13:39,791
they're at. And frankly, most people

363
01:13:39,791 --> 01:13:45,416
don't don't care about the sustainability

364
01:13:45,416 --> 01:13:48,250
piece like, yeah, they could say that

365
01:13:48,250 --> 01:13:49,916
they care. But when push comes to shove,

366
01:13:49,916 --> 01:13:53,041
it's like the bread's gotta the bread has

367
01:13:53,041 --> 01:13:56,791
to be meeting a need of there's a lot of

368
01:13:56,791 --> 01:13:58,000
people, a lot of people's

369
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,416
needs are in the cost arena.

370
01:14:00,458 --> 01:14:03,791
And our bread is not the cheapest bread

371
01:14:03,791 --> 01:14:06,541
on the on the shelf. So the thing that we

372
01:14:06,541 --> 01:14:08,500
have to really lead with is like, hey,

373
01:14:09,500 --> 01:14:12,458
this bread, it's, it's better for you.

374
01:14:13,125 --> 01:14:15,791
That is much more motivating for people

375
01:14:15,791 --> 01:14:18,750
than this bread is better for the planet

376
01:14:18,750 --> 01:14:20,291
that you live on. It's like, it's too

377
01:14:20,291 --> 01:14:23,000
abstract a concept for people to say, I'm

378
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:25,041
going to spend $2 more on a loaf of bread

379
01:14:25,041 --> 01:14:28,708
because it's gonna sequester some carbon

380
01:14:28,708 --> 01:14:30,000
or something. No, people

381
01:14:31,416 --> 01:14:32,916
it's more of an afterthought, right?

382
01:14:32,916 --> 01:14:34,500
Like, so say I'm sharing the bread with

383
01:14:34,500 --> 01:14:35,625
somebody and like, oh, this is really

384
01:14:35,625 --> 01:14:36,708
good. I'm like, yeah, it's really healthy

385
01:14:36,708 --> 01:14:38,125
for you. It's got all this. It's got this

386
01:14:38,125 --> 01:14:39,500
amount of protein, this, you know,

387
01:14:39,500 --> 01:14:41,625
reduced carbs and stuff like that. Then I

388
01:14:41,625 --> 01:14:43,083
can say, oh, by the way, it's also good

389
01:14:43,083 --> 01:14:44,416
for the environment. And they're like,

390
01:14:44,416 --> 01:14:45,833
oh, that's cool. But this really tastes

391
01:14:45,833 --> 01:14:46,958
good. You know, like, that's probably

392
01:14:46,958 --> 01:14:48,375
it's more of like the after like the

393
01:14:48,375 --> 01:14:50,250
secondary thought afterwards and be like,

394
01:14:50,250 --> 01:14:51,500
oh, yeah, by the way, they do this new

395
01:14:51,500 --> 01:14:52,833
agricultural thing. And if you're

396
01:14:52,833 --> 01:14:54,708
interested in agriculture, then maybe you

397
01:14:54,708 --> 01:14:56,375
go on with that conversation. Is that is

398
01:14:56,375 --> 01:14:57,375
that pretty much on point?

399
01:14:57,791 --> 01:15:00,708
Yeah, that's on point. And it's, and it's

400
01:15:00,708 --> 01:15:04,875
like, it's on point. And I'll just put

401
01:15:04,875 --> 01:15:06,583
some language to it. It's, it's a

402
01:15:06,583 --> 01:15:08,666
customer retention tactic more than

403
01:15:08,666 --> 01:15:11,375
anything else. So someone starts buying

404
01:15:11,375 --> 01:15:13,958
our bread. And we don't like we don't

405
01:15:13,958 --> 01:15:16,416
lead our advertisement, our hook isn't

406
01:15:16,416 --> 01:15:19,000
like, bread, that's safe, you know,

407
01:15:19,583 --> 01:15:21,916
that's not the hook. The hook is this

408
01:15:21,916 --> 01:15:24,750
bread is tasty. It's allergen free. It's,

409
01:15:24,750 --> 01:15:27,375
you know, like got good, complete,

410
01:15:27,416 --> 01:15:31,166
plant based protein, etc. And then, you

411
01:15:31,166 --> 01:15:33,500
know, they start getting our emails. And

412
01:15:33,500 --> 01:15:35,541
emails, we start talking about like, Hey,

413
01:15:35,541 --> 01:15:37,958
did you know that this bread was grown

414
01:15:37,958 --> 01:15:39,416
with regenerative buckwheat? Or Hey, did

415
01:15:39,416 --> 01:15:41,625
you know that our, our packaging is fully

416
01:15:41,625 --> 01:15:43,041
compostable, like home

417
01:15:43,041 --> 01:15:44,833
compostable. And then

418
01:15:44,875 --> 01:15:46,500
it's where the values of the company make

419
01:15:46,500 --> 01:15:48,583
a difference. Yeah, yeah. And people

420
01:15:48,583 --> 01:15:50,750
start realizing like, Oh, this bread,

421
01:15:50,750 --> 01:15:52,500
this company is really cool. I want to

422
01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:54,166
keep buying from this company. I'm going

423
01:15:54,166 --> 01:15:55,958
to convince my kids to eat this bread.

424
01:15:56,500 --> 01:15:59,208
Yeah, even if it, you know, like, even if

425
01:15:59,208 --> 01:16:00,708
it's not the first thing that their kids

426
01:16:00,708 --> 01:16:04,416
are like, yeah, you know, yeah, it's a

427
01:16:04,416 --> 01:16:05,500
state. I mean, let's be honest, like

428
01:16:05,500 --> 01:16:08,750
bread is a staple in a lot of households,

429
01:16:08,750 --> 01:16:10,416
right, especially in North America, bread

430
01:16:10,416 --> 01:16:13,666
is a staple. And so, you know, I grew up

431
01:16:13,666 --> 01:16:14,791
toasted in the morning,

432
01:16:14,875 --> 01:16:17,000
or I'll have a sandwich or, you know, so

433
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:19,000
it's part of that, that process. But

434
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:21,458
lately, it seems as though over the past

435
01:16:21,458 --> 01:16:24,208
maybe decade, bread has become a bit of

436
01:16:24,208 --> 01:16:26,750
like regular bread, your typical bread

437
01:16:26,750 --> 01:16:29,750
that you buy in a grocery store. People

438
01:16:29,750 --> 01:16:31,791
have had gluten allergies, you know,

439
01:16:31,791 --> 01:16:32,958
people like, well, it has a lot of

440
01:16:32,958 --> 01:16:35,000
complex carbs. So it's not like, or hard

441
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,083
to break down in the body, you know, it's

442
01:16:37,083 --> 01:16:38,958
going to create like, it's not going to

443
01:16:38,958 --> 01:16:40,250
be healthy for you. If you want to lose

444
01:16:40,250 --> 01:16:41,541
weight, or you want to be in shape, you

445
01:16:41,541 --> 01:16:42,958
lose your bread, you feel better, all

446
01:16:42,958 --> 01:16:44,500
this kind of stuff. And this way, I'm

447
01:16:44,500 --> 01:16:44,833
looking at your weight, you know, I'm going to be like,

448
01:16:44,875 --> 01:16:45,500
you know, on my website, it's like, for

449
01:16:45,500 --> 01:16:47,125
people who've given up on bread, it's

450
01:16:47,125 --> 01:16:48,416
such a great message. Because so many

451
01:16:48,416 --> 01:16:49,583
people have been like, you know, screw

452
01:16:49,583 --> 01:16:51,125
that, I'm just gonna avoid bread

453
01:16:51,125 --> 01:16:53,875
altogether. But people love bread. I love

454
01:16:53,875 --> 01:16:56,166
bread. I have like, thoughts of my dad

455
01:16:56,166 --> 01:16:58,041
when I was younger, like on a Sunday, and

456
01:16:58,041 --> 01:16:59,958
eating like T biz and, you know, in front

457
01:16:59,958 --> 01:17:01,875
of the TV with butter and stuff. And but

458
01:17:01,875 --> 01:17:03,083
like, now I don't do it, because I'm

459
01:17:03,083 --> 01:17:04,875
like, Well, this bread's not good for me,

460
01:17:04,875 --> 01:17:06,833
the ones that I buy at the grocery store.

461
01:17:06,833 --> 01:17:08,375
How do I get good bread? So I think I

462
01:17:08,375 --> 01:17:09,958
love this messaging. Because it's really

463
01:17:09,958 --> 01:17:11,708
just being like, this is a new way of

464
01:17:11,708 --> 01:17:13,291
thinking of bread where you can have it.

465
01:17:13,625 --> 01:17:14,833
You know, it's almost like have your cake in your bread. And I don't think I can have it.

466
01:17:14,875 --> 01:17:16,666
you to have your bread and eat it too,

467
01:17:16,916 --> 01:17:17,625
where you don't have to

468
01:17:17,625 --> 01:17:18,708
feel sorry for yourself

469
01:17:18,708 --> 01:17:20,375
after you drink, after you eat it, right?

470
01:17:20,375 --> 01:17:21,458
So I think that's a

471
01:17:21,458 --> 01:17:23,000
really interesting messaging

472
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:24,625
to get to. I love

473
01:17:24,625 --> 01:17:25,791
that. I like that aspect.

474
01:17:26,041 --> 01:17:27,333
I might steal that, have your bread.

475
01:17:27,666 --> 01:17:29,583
Yeah, there you go. Right?

476
01:17:30,166 --> 01:17:31,750
I'm not bad. I'm going to get for a

477
01:17:31,750 --> 01:17:32,583
little bit of marketing.

478
01:17:34,541 --> 01:17:35,416
But let's talk about the

479
01:17:35,416 --> 01:17:38,791
bread. Like why is it, like you mentioned

480
01:17:38,791 --> 01:17:39,666
it a little bit before

481
01:17:39,666 --> 01:17:40,666
about regenerative agriculture,

482
01:17:41,083 --> 01:17:44,375
like how is this bread so different than

483
01:17:44,375 --> 01:17:45,500
the bread that we would

484
01:17:45,500 --> 01:17:47,291
like sort of the quote

485
01:17:47,291 --> 01:17:49,083
unquote typical bread that we

486
01:17:49,083 --> 01:17:50,541
would see in a grocery store?

487
01:17:51,291 --> 01:17:54,041
Yeah. Okay, so there's two there's two

488
01:17:54,041 --> 01:17:56,250
like important parts of

489
01:17:56,250 --> 01:17:57,500
this. One is the actual

490
01:17:57,500 --> 01:18:00,125
bread itself and why it's different

491
01:18:00,125 --> 01:18:01,750
nutritionally ingredients

492
01:18:01,750 --> 01:18:04,500
wise. So our bread is we make

493
01:18:04,541 --> 01:18:08,500
the bread from whole groats of growth

494
01:18:08,500 --> 01:18:10,333
seeds, buckwheat seeds.

495
01:18:10,875 --> 01:18:14,625
Yeah. Buckwheat is not wheat.

496
01:18:15,541 --> 01:18:17,166
It's completely gluten free. It actually

497
01:18:17,166 --> 01:18:18,958
the plant is it doesn't

498
01:18:18,958 --> 01:18:20,916
it's not like a grass.

499
01:18:21,333 --> 01:18:23,583
It's not a grain. It's like this little

500
01:18:23,583 --> 01:18:25,125
flat. It's like these

501
01:18:25,125 --> 01:18:26,541
little white flowers that

502
01:18:26,541 --> 01:18:29,333
have like a very green leafy plant and

503
01:18:29,333 --> 01:18:31,833
it's a cover crop. So

504
01:18:31,833 --> 01:18:32,875
it's completely different

505
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:34,458
than wheat. It's a totally different

506
01:18:34,458 --> 01:18:37,416
thing. High in protein.

507
01:18:38,041 --> 01:18:40,583
It's one of the only complete

508
01:18:41,041 --> 01:18:42,583
plant based proteins. You know, you got

509
01:18:42,583 --> 01:18:43,666
like your quinoa, your

510
01:18:43,666 --> 01:18:45,333
pumpkin seeds, your hemp.

511
01:18:47,458 --> 01:18:50,208
And buckwheat is one of the only it's

512
01:18:50,208 --> 01:18:52,041
like nine or 10 plant

513
01:18:52,041 --> 01:18:55,208
based protein sources that

514
01:18:55,875 --> 01:19:00,708
are complete. And so and then we, we

515
01:19:00,708 --> 01:19:02,416
actually don't use flour

516
01:19:02,416 --> 01:19:04,125
to make our bread. We soak

517
01:19:04,833 --> 01:19:08,208
the whole seeds. So that that process

518
01:19:08,208 --> 01:19:10,375
actually starts removing

519
01:19:10,375 --> 01:19:12,583
what are called anti nutrients

520
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:15,333
that bind to the nutrients that are in

521
01:19:15,333 --> 01:19:17,541
the bread. Normally

522
01:19:17,541 --> 01:19:19,083
those things would just cause

523
01:19:19,083 --> 01:19:21,541
you to pass some of the nutrients that

524
01:19:21,541 --> 01:19:22,208
are available from

525
01:19:22,208 --> 01:19:25,416
waste. Yeah. Yeah. And then

526
01:19:25,708 --> 01:19:29,791
we, we blend it, we ferment it and the

527
01:19:29,791 --> 01:19:31,500
fermentation process, we use a wild

528
01:19:31,500 --> 01:19:32,416
fermentation. We don't

529
01:19:32,500 --> 01:19:35,000
add any yeast, but the, the yeast that

530
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:35,958
are on the buckwheat

531
01:19:35,958 --> 01:19:37,458
groats ferment the bread.

532
01:19:37,458 --> 01:19:39,583
It begins, it kicks off the digestion

533
01:19:39,583 --> 01:19:40,500
process. So it's like

534
01:19:40,500 --> 01:19:41,916
almost like it's predigested.

535
01:19:42,375 --> 01:19:45,375
So the bread is really easy to digest.

536
01:19:45,375 --> 01:19:46,416
It's full of nutrients.

537
01:19:46,416 --> 01:19:47,083
Buckwheat's really high

538
01:19:47,083 --> 01:19:51,000
in magnesium, which is nutrient that most

539
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,333
people are missing. And it's like anybody

540
01:19:54,583 --> 01:19:56,208
can eat this bread unless they're

541
01:19:56,208 --> 01:19:57,083
allergic to buckwheat,

542
01:19:57,083 --> 01:19:59,791
which is like 0.0001% of the

543
01:19:59,791 --> 01:20:03,833
North American population. Okay. So it

544
01:20:03,833 --> 01:20:05,666
really is like it's, and

545
01:20:05,666 --> 01:20:07,708
it just feels amazing. Yeah.

546
01:20:08,791 --> 01:20:11,166
It feels really good in the body and I

547
01:20:11,166 --> 01:20:12,916
eat it every day, like

548
01:20:12,916 --> 01:20:14,625
multiple times a day. And

549
01:20:14,625 --> 01:20:16,208
you don't get like that. You know, I have

550
01:20:16,208 --> 01:20:16,916
some people they have

551
01:20:16,916 --> 01:20:18,166
like, I've had bread

552
01:20:18,208 --> 01:20:20,458
before, like I said, I love bread and I

553
01:20:20,458 --> 01:20:21,666
feel groggy after I feel

554
01:20:21,666 --> 01:20:23,000
kind of like, you know,

555
01:20:23,166 --> 01:20:24,791
sluggish after and you're just like, why

556
01:20:24,791 --> 01:20:26,208
did I have so much bread and that kind of

557
01:20:26,208 --> 01:20:27,500
stuff? Almost to the point where like, I

558
01:20:27,500 --> 01:20:28,041
don't want, if I have

559
01:20:28,041 --> 01:20:28,791
a hamburger, a lot of

560
01:20:28,791 --> 01:20:30,083
times I just have the patty. I don't have

561
01:20:30,083 --> 01:20:31,041
the bread that goes

562
01:20:31,041 --> 01:20:32,375
with it because I don't

563
01:20:32,375 --> 01:20:35,041
want to feel crappy after. So this you're

564
01:20:35,041 --> 01:20:35,666
saying you actually

565
01:20:35,666 --> 01:20:36,791
don't feel that you just

566
01:20:36,791 --> 01:20:39,583
feel, you feel maybe energized or

567
01:20:39,583 --> 01:20:40,291
something like that. You

568
01:20:40,291 --> 01:20:41,333
just feel good. Like you can

569
01:20:41,333 --> 01:20:42,333
just go on with the rest of your day

570
01:20:42,333 --> 01:20:43,041
without being affected.

571
01:20:43,291 --> 01:20:44,875
Yeah. It just feels good.

572
01:20:44,875 --> 01:20:46,791
And like, you can eat a couple of slices

573
01:20:46,791 --> 01:20:49,000
of Pacha bread and you'll

574
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:50,750
be full for the morning,

575
01:20:51,083 --> 01:20:53,500
you know, like, yeah, that's great. Quick

576
01:20:53,500 --> 01:20:56,666
sugary head. You get

577
01:20:56,666 --> 01:20:58,166
level of boost and crash.

578
01:20:58,791 --> 01:21:01,958
Yeah. Okay. That's awesome. So yeah. And

579
01:21:01,958 --> 01:21:02,541
now like that's,

580
01:21:02,541 --> 01:21:04,083
that's the first part of it.

581
01:21:04,333 --> 01:21:05,916
And then there's another part, which I

582
01:21:05,916 --> 01:21:07,708
assume is how it's, it's

583
01:21:07,708 --> 01:21:09,250
grown and, and things. Yes.

584
01:21:09,625 --> 01:21:11,333
Yeah. And so then the second piece about

585
01:21:11,333 --> 01:21:13,291
the bread is, and this is

586
01:21:13,291 --> 01:21:14,291
the piece we don't always

587
01:21:14,291 --> 01:21:17,208
talk about first thing, but all of our

588
01:21:17,208 --> 01:21:19,333
buckwheat is grown by certified

589
01:21:19,333 --> 01:21:20,625
regenerative farmers.

590
01:21:21,291 --> 01:21:24,750
And for, for your listeners who aren't

591
01:21:24,750 --> 01:21:26,750
familiar with regenerative agriculture,

592
01:21:27,958 --> 01:21:30,875
the basic idea is that regenerative

593
01:21:30,875 --> 01:21:33,083
farmers are taking care of

594
01:21:33,083 --> 01:21:36,416
their soil. So by taking care of

595
01:21:36,416 --> 01:21:37,583
the soil, they're doing a few things.

596
01:21:37,916 --> 01:21:40,916
They are, they are, well, they're

597
01:21:40,916 --> 01:21:42,625
turning, they're turning

598
01:21:42,625 --> 01:21:45,083
carbon from the atmosphere into soil

599
01:21:45,083 --> 01:21:50,166
carbon. They're making a really healthy,

600
01:21:50,166 --> 01:21:52,166
robust soil ecosystem

601
01:21:52,333 --> 01:21:54,708
so that, you know, you can imagine like,

602
01:21:55,333 --> 01:21:57,750
when you, when you have

603
01:21:57,750 --> 01:22:00,500
like a new bag of potting soil,

604
01:22:00,541 --> 01:22:04,208
right? And you, you can just see that

605
01:22:04,208 --> 01:22:06,166
it's like, it's all fluffy and airy and

606
01:22:06,166 --> 01:22:08,041
healthy and you pour

607
01:22:08,166 --> 01:22:10,041
some water on it and it soaks it up like

608
01:22:10,041 --> 01:22:13,375
a sponge versus like compacted dirt from

609
01:22:13,375 --> 01:22:15,416
your kids playground or

610
01:22:15,416 --> 01:22:19,000
whatever. Yeah. It creates this, this

611
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:20,750
ecosystem, this network that

612
01:22:20,750 --> 01:22:22,958
has air and it, and it allows

613
01:22:23,125 --> 01:22:25,291
life to move through it. And the life is

614
01:22:25,291 --> 01:22:26,458
what's storing the carbon,

615
01:22:26,458 --> 01:22:27,500
all of the little critters

616
01:22:27,500 --> 01:22:30,250
that are carbon-based life forms. And

617
01:22:30,250 --> 01:22:32,083
then, like I, like I

618
01:22:32,083 --> 01:22:34,250
mentioned, that soil is able to retain

619
01:22:34,416 --> 01:22:38,833
water. So regenerative farm. Much better

620
01:22:38,833 --> 01:22:39,458
than what you would

621
01:22:39,458 --> 01:22:41,000
normally, like regular farming and

622
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:42,208
regular soil, right? Yeah, exactly. So

623
01:22:42,208 --> 01:22:44,791
like, yeah, if you'd imagine on a, on a,

624
01:22:44,791 --> 01:22:46,458
on a conventional farm,

625
01:22:47,250 --> 01:22:49,333
you've got compacted soil that you are,

626
01:22:49,541 --> 01:22:51,958
you're, you know, you're tilling the

627
01:22:51,958 --> 01:22:53,041
field, you're adding

628
01:22:53,041 --> 01:22:57,208
in your, your synthetic fertilizers to be

629
01:22:57,208 --> 01:22:58,125
able to grow something

630
01:22:58,125 --> 01:22:59,916
there because there's, you know,

631
01:22:59,916 --> 01:23:03,541
the soil is lifeless. Right. And then

632
01:23:03,541 --> 01:23:05,875
when it rains, a bunch of

633
01:23:05,875 --> 01:23:07,250
that dirt is being washed off

634
01:23:07,250 --> 01:23:09,083
the field. So we have major flooding

635
01:23:09,083 --> 01:23:11,000
issues across the country.

636
01:23:11,250 --> 01:23:12,416
I mean, in California, I'm

637
01:23:12,416 --> 01:23:15,500
especially aware of it, but what, what

638
01:23:15,500 --> 01:23:17,416
you'll see in areas where there are

639
01:23:17,416 --> 01:23:18,916
regenerative farms is like

640
01:23:19,208 --> 01:23:22,083
the, the conventional farms, if there's a

641
01:23:22,083 --> 01:23:23,666
big rain event, they've just got like

642
01:23:23,666 --> 01:23:25,291
ditches full of like

643
01:23:25,375 --> 01:23:28,791
red, you know, muddy water. And then you

644
01:23:28,791 --> 01:23:29,875
go onto the, onto the

645
01:23:29,875 --> 01:23:32,458
regenerative farm. And there's not

646
01:23:32,458 --> 01:23:34,500
even really a flooding issue at all,

647
01:23:34,500 --> 01:23:38,541
because the soil is taking up the water.

648
01:23:39,250 --> 01:23:40,333
This is so crazy too,

649
01:23:40,333 --> 01:23:42,375
because like you think if you, if you

650
01:23:42,375 --> 01:23:44,583
look at how water moves nowadays,

651
01:23:45,125 --> 01:23:46,208
especially when we get these

652
01:23:46,208 --> 01:23:48,041
bigger rainfalls due to climate change

653
01:23:48,041 --> 01:23:49,666
and more sort of extreme weather

654
01:23:49,666 --> 01:23:50,791
patterns, even just regular

655
01:23:50,875 --> 01:23:52,625
weather patterns, you start to see water

656
01:23:52,625 --> 01:23:54,291
move differently. And people are

657
01:23:54,291 --> 01:23:56,250
wondering what is going on? Is it the way

658
01:23:56,500 --> 01:23:58,291
you know, we're routing water, you know,

659
01:23:58,291 --> 01:23:59,916
that which is, which is part of it, but

660
01:23:59,916 --> 01:24:02,416
we never really talk about how

661
01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:05,875
soil changes over time, especially when

662
01:24:05,875 --> 01:24:07,666
we're farming everything, we go into like

663
01:24:07,666 --> 01:24:09,791
monoculture type of agriculture,

664
01:24:09,791 --> 01:24:12,416
we're going to like soil impacted, and we

665
01:24:12,416 --> 01:24:13,541
don't talk about how

666
01:24:13,541 --> 01:24:17,333
important it is for soil to be in,

667
01:24:17,375 --> 01:24:20,541
in quote unquote healthy shape. And you

668
01:24:20,541 --> 01:24:22,541
know, this is regenerative farming

669
01:24:22,541 --> 01:24:25,041
practice, which is what we used to do

670
01:24:25,041 --> 01:24:28,250
back in the day when we needed the soil

671
01:24:28,250 --> 01:24:31,083
to be to be good. We got out of that for

672
01:24:31,083 --> 01:24:33,083
some reason, and because maybe it was a

673
01:24:33,083 --> 01:24:35,458
quicker return, I'm not sure. And now

674
01:24:35,458 --> 01:24:37,416
we're, we're starting to see some some

675
01:24:37,416 --> 01:24:40,125
companies go back to it. It's just insane

676
01:24:40,125 --> 01:24:42,791
to me to really think about and we don't

677
01:24:42,791 --> 01:24:44,875
document that we don't talk about it as

678
01:24:44,875 --> 01:24:45,333
much as we should, to say, hey, we're going to do this.

679
01:24:45,375 --> 01:24:45,791
And if we're going to do this as much as

680
01:24:45,791 --> 01:24:48,000
we should, to say, hey, you know what, if

681
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:49,833
we take care of our soil, like farmers

682
01:24:49,833 --> 01:24:51,416
take care of our soil, they're allowed to

683
01:24:51,416 --> 01:24:53,916
take care of the soil, we will get a much

684
01:24:53,916 --> 01:24:56,125
better system, like just environmentally,

685
01:24:56,416 --> 01:24:57,708
not only from a climate change

686
01:24:57,708 --> 01:25:00,416
perspective, but just from a safety and

687
01:25:00,416 --> 01:25:02,416
water movement perspective. Totally.

688
01:25:03,375 --> 01:25:05,583
Yeah. And like, I mean, since we're on

689
01:25:05,583 --> 01:25:06,791
the water, there's more about

690
01:25:06,791 --> 01:25:08,916
regenerative agriculture, but when on the

691
01:25:08,916 --> 01:25:11,708
water perspective, you know, like, in the

692
01:25:11,708 --> 01:25:14,875
oceans, there are there are huge issues.

693
01:25:15,458 --> 01:25:17,750
Yeah. Dead zones just from

694
01:25:17,750 --> 01:25:19,708
the nutrient runoff. Oh my gosh.

695
01:25:20,375 --> 01:25:22,416
I mean, huge issues, the Gulf of Mexico

696
01:25:22,416 --> 01:25:24,458
is like, yeah, I used to work in there.

697
01:25:24,708 --> 01:25:27,791
Yeah, it's not really. Yeah. But, you

698
01:25:27,791 --> 01:25:30,666
know, so the one regenerative agriculture

699
01:25:30,666 --> 01:25:33,458
is removing the need for

700
01:25:33,458 --> 01:25:35,166
those synthetic inputs.

701
01:25:35,375 --> 01:25:37,750
Yeah, you know, like, or at least

702
01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:41,083
significantly reducing it so that you

703
01:25:41,083 --> 01:25:43,083
don't have this issue where people are

704
01:25:43,083 --> 01:25:45,875
just dumping nitrogen onto the onto the

705
01:25:45,875 --> 01:25:48,291
soil. And then the rain is washing it off

706
01:25:48,291 --> 01:25:49,250
down to the waterways.

707
01:25:50,458 --> 01:25:52,000
But there's also, you know, there's a lot

708
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:53,916
of there's a lot of issues on our reefs

709
01:25:53,916 --> 01:25:57,583
and in our in our coastal zones, just

710
01:25:57,583 --> 01:25:59,833
from sediment itself, like, yes, I didn't

711
01:25:59,833 --> 01:26:03,375
run off affecting the quality, the water

712
01:26:03,375 --> 01:26:06,291
quality, the, you know, the marine life

713
01:26:06,291 --> 01:26:09,333
that's in the coastal zones, sometimes is

714
01:26:09,333 --> 01:26:11,208
damaged or killed by

715
01:26:11,208 --> 01:26:14,333
overloaded sediment from the water.

716
01:26:14,375 --> 01:26:16,208
Yeah, I think about just the impact of

717
01:26:16,208 --> 01:26:18,541
the Mississippi, how far it reaches into

718
01:26:18,541 --> 01:26:21,083
the Gulf of Mexico, that current that

719
01:26:21,083 --> 01:26:22,666
comes out of the Mississippi. I mean,

720
01:26:22,666 --> 01:26:25,833
oftentimes the impacts of hypoxia from

721
01:26:25,833 --> 01:26:29,458
the just from the nutrient pollution and

722
01:26:29,458 --> 01:26:30,500
the phytoplankton

723
01:26:30,500 --> 01:26:31,916
growing and won't get into it.

724
01:26:32,375 --> 01:26:33,708
But you can go all the way to Texas, like

725
01:26:33,708 --> 01:26:36,250
it's huge. And just the sediment carries,

726
01:26:36,250 --> 01:26:38,375
you know, pretty far out there in the

727
01:26:38,375 --> 01:26:39,875
middle of the Gulf of Mexico or in the

728
01:26:39,875 --> 01:26:41,625
middle of like the part the northern part

729
01:26:41,625 --> 01:26:42,458
of the Gulf of Mexico.

730
01:26:43,375 --> 01:26:45,916
And it's just it's insane to to think

731
01:26:45,916 --> 01:26:48,125
about we don't talk about it a lot. But

732
01:26:48,125 --> 01:26:50,000
it's insane to even think about how that

733
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:52,541
soil that's going there could be already

734
01:26:52,541 --> 01:26:55,708
impacted from fertilizers from chemicals

735
01:26:55,708 --> 01:26:57,125
that are used all the way up

736
01:26:57,125 --> 01:26:59,291
and down the Mississippi River.

737
01:27:00,375 --> 01:27:01,958
You know, that's obviously the major

738
01:27:01,958 --> 01:27:03,875
river in the US, but other rivers are

739
01:27:03,875 --> 01:27:06,208
pretty much impacted very similar. Just

740
01:27:06,208 --> 01:27:09,125
not maybe not to that, that size because

741
01:27:09,125 --> 01:27:11,000
it's just such a big, such a big river

742
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:13,791
and travel so far up up the Midwest.

743
01:27:14,541 --> 01:27:14,791
For sure.

744
01:27:15,958 --> 01:27:18,000
Yeah. Yeah. And so like, like I said,

745
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:19,833
there's other, we

746
01:27:19,833 --> 01:27:21,916
mentioned the, the chemicals.

747
01:27:23,375 --> 01:27:24,875
And so like, oh, swimming

748
01:27:24,875 --> 01:27:27,333
in the Ohio River. Oh, yeah.

749
01:27:30,375 --> 01:27:32,958
But yeah, the you know, the other the

750
01:27:32,958 --> 01:27:36,458
other major thing that is a boon for the

751
01:27:36,458 --> 01:27:38,541
environment and a boon for people's

752
01:27:38,541 --> 01:27:40,250
health is that regenerative agriculture

753
01:27:40,250 --> 01:27:44,583
is essentially like farming in a way that

754
01:27:44,583 --> 01:27:47,250
the ecosystem is in balance.

755
01:27:47,708 --> 01:27:49,875
So we have an issue with pests.

756
01:27:50,541 --> 01:27:53,250
You know, like, an example, slugs on an

757
01:27:53,250 --> 01:27:55,583
on an orchard. Cool. Well, we just let

758
01:27:55,583 --> 01:27:58,083
our ducks in and the ducks. Yeah, slugs.

759
01:27:58,500 --> 01:28:01,750
Like, we try not to separate the systems.

760
01:28:02,083 --> 01:28:03,958
Right. Right. The systems are intertwined

761
01:28:03,958 --> 01:28:08,166
and the animals are a part of the of the

762
01:28:08,166 --> 01:28:09,375
cult. That's just one piece of

763
01:28:09,375 --> 01:28:10,083
regenerative agriculture.

764
01:28:10,375 --> 01:28:13,416
And then, you know, on a on a greater

765
01:28:13,416 --> 01:28:16,583
level, just having more diversity in the

766
01:28:16,583 --> 01:28:20,625
plant life. So rather than having acres,

767
01:28:20,875 --> 01:28:26,125
hectares of of one plant when like, you

768
01:28:26,125 --> 01:28:28,708
know, sometimes one genetically modified

769
01:28:28,708 --> 01:28:29,541
plant that has a lot

770
01:28:29,541 --> 01:28:30,333
of the same genetics.

771
01:28:31,375 --> 01:28:35,166
If a pest comes in or if a disease blight

772
01:28:35,166 --> 01:28:37,875
comes, it's going to knock everything

773
01:28:37,875 --> 01:28:40,458
out. Yeah. So that's why they have to use

774
01:28:40,458 --> 01:28:43,125
the fungicides, the herbicides, all this,

775
01:28:43,458 --> 01:28:46,333
you know, on those plants to protect them

776
01:28:46,333 --> 01:28:49,708
and in regenerative agriculture, the idea

777
01:28:49,708 --> 01:28:51,875
is, well, if there's more diversity and

778
01:28:51,875 --> 01:28:54,666
if if the fields are smaller and more

779
01:28:54,666 --> 01:28:57,500
spread out, then those kinds of diseases,

780
01:28:57,500 --> 01:28:59,333
they just can't travel because there's other, there should be more.

781
01:28:59,375 --> 01:29:05,083
There's just more genetic diversity. And

782
01:29:05,083 --> 01:29:07,291
a lot of times, too, like because of the

783
01:29:07,291 --> 01:29:10,916
biodiversity present a lot of the night,

784
01:29:10,916 --> 01:29:12,750
I don't know an example off by heart, but

785
01:29:12,750 --> 01:29:14,583
a lot of the times any invasive species

786
01:29:14,583 --> 01:29:16,000
or any species that comes in that could

787
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:18,000
harm a specific culture.

788
01:29:18,625 --> 01:29:21,250
In this case, the buckwheat might be

789
01:29:21,250 --> 01:29:23,416
deterred by other animals present or

790
01:29:23,416 --> 01:29:25,000
other plants that are present that would

791
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:30,166
ward off these types of invasive or, you

792
01:29:30,166 --> 01:29:32,375
know, animal life or disease that could

793
01:29:32,375 --> 01:29:35,333
be that could alter, you know, the growth

794
01:29:35,333 --> 01:29:37,625
and the health of the buckwheat or

795
01:29:37,625 --> 01:29:39,333
whatever your culturing.

796
01:29:39,375 --> 01:29:40,791
Now, so this is interesting because he

797
01:29:40,791 --> 01:29:42,625
said something that really kind of made

798
01:29:42,625 --> 01:29:44,041
me interested because I've been thinking

799
01:29:44,041 --> 01:29:45,500
about business and how everybody wants to

800
01:29:45,500 --> 01:29:47,041
grow their business and grow and grow and

801
01:29:47,041 --> 01:29:48,375
grow. And it's got to be big. It's got to

802
01:29:48,375 --> 01:29:49,333
scale. It's all this.

803
01:29:49,375 --> 01:29:54,041
When you have smaller, I guess, landmass

804
01:29:54,041 --> 01:29:57,125
or keeping it the the the I guess the

805
01:29:57,125 --> 01:29:59,458
growth of the buckwheat smaller because

806
01:29:59,458 --> 01:30:01,958
you have all this biodiversity, can you

807
01:30:01,958 --> 01:30:04,875
have a business that's sustainable, that

808
01:30:04,875 --> 01:30:08,833
can still bring in revenue without, you

809
01:30:08,833 --> 01:30:10,000
know, because you're having a smaller

810
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:13,250
area, maybe without impacting, you know,

811
01:30:13,250 --> 01:30:14,708
your bottom line or just sort of your

812
01:30:14,708 --> 01:30:16,333
lifestyle that you prefer?

813
01:30:16,375 --> 01:30:18,625
Like, is it a change in it's a change in

814
01:30:18,625 --> 01:30:20,250
mindset? Maybe you're not growing all the

815
01:30:20,250 --> 01:30:22,333
time? Or is that in my wrong? Is it a

816
01:30:22,333 --> 01:30:25,166
change in mindset when you have a company

817
01:30:25,166 --> 01:30:28,541
that uses regenerative agriculture

818
01:30:28,541 --> 01:30:30,750
compared to the others?

819
01:30:30,750 --> 01:30:31,916
I assume that's the benefit for the

820
01:30:31,916 --> 01:30:33,666
others. You can scale really, really big

821
01:30:33,666 --> 01:30:35,458
and grow as much as possible. But there's

822
01:30:35,458 --> 01:30:37,041
a cost to that in terms of the

823
01:30:37,041 --> 01:30:38,375
environment here. You're keeping it

824
01:30:38,375 --> 01:30:40,458
small, but keeping the environment intact

825
01:30:40,458 --> 01:30:41,666
plus probably less

826
01:30:41,666 --> 01:30:42,625
upkeep and less chemicals.

827
01:30:43,875 --> 01:30:47,041
Yeah, I mean, that that's an that's an

828
01:30:47,041 --> 01:30:50,500
interesting question. And I mean, there's

829
01:30:50,500 --> 01:30:52,708
certainly there's certainly issues where

830
01:30:52,708 --> 01:30:56,166
it's like, okay, regenerative

831
01:30:56,166 --> 01:30:57,625
agriculture, great solution for climate

832
01:30:57,625 --> 01:30:59,291
change, but it's not like we can flip a

833
01:30:59,291 --> 01:31:03,416
switch and turn all of our fields onto

834
01:31:03,416 --> 01:31:05,000
regenerative agriculture right away.

835
01:31:05,750 --> 01:31:09,708
But you know, from like from our from the

836
01:31:09,708 --> 01:31:13,000
perspective of our farmers, a lot of them

837
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:15,500
are already growing, you know, they have

838
01:31:15,500 --> 01:31:19,916
their fields are their fields are

839
01:31:19,916 --> 01:31:22,166
separated and they have they have certain

840
01:31:22,166 --> 01:31:23,083
things happening on

841
01:31:23,083 --> 01:31:25,041
different parts of their property.

842
01:31:25,458 --> 01:31:29,750
Gotcha. So we just one aspect of their

843
01:31:29,750 --> 01:31:32,958
farm. Yeah, exactly. And there's a lot of

844
01:31:32,958 --> 01:31:35,041
like crop rotation is a part of it too.

845
01:31:35,250 --> 01:31:38,500
So you can actually have quite a large.

846
01:31:38,750 --> 01:31:42,625
Yeah. Like, you can you can have a large

847
01:31:42,625 --> 01:31:45,833
farm that that farm is buckwheat. But the

848
01:31:45,833 --> 01:31:49,250
it may just be that year to year they

849
01:31:49,250 --> 01:31:52,333
rotate. Yeah, where that is being grown.

850
01:31:52,333 --> 01:31:53,958
And yeah, that alone.

851
01:31:54,375 --> 01:31:57,375
And that helps with the the nutrient

852
01:31:57,375 --> 01:32:00,125
profile of the soil and right and the and

853
01:32:00,125 --> 01:32:03,375
the bio ecosystem, the this and even from

854
01:32:03,375 --> 01:32:06,375
a farmer's perspective, do they like it

855
01:32:06,375 --> 01:32:08,500
more like regenerative agriculture than

856
01:32:08,500 --> 01:32:11,208
sort of the what has become the

857
01:32:11,208 --> 01:32:12,833
conventional agriculture?

858
01:32:13,833 --> 01:32:18,666
Yeah, I'm just gonna say yes. And but

859
01:32:18,666 --> 01:32:20,791
they may not know it yet.

860
01:32:22,375 --> 01:32:25,333
Okay, so benefits for the farmers, you

861
01:32:25,333 --> 01:32:28,833
know, for sure, they you know, they're

862
01:32:28,833 --> 01:32:32,541
they there's so many issues with farmers

863
01:32:32,541 --> 01:32:35,000
and people in rural areas with that where

864
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:36,416
they spray a lot of life say a lot of

865
01:32:36,416 --> 01:32:39,666
incidents of leukemia cancers, all many,

866
01:32:39,666 --> 01:32:42,000
many, many health issues that arise from

867
01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:43,166
being exposed to those chemicals.

868
01:32:43,375 --> 01:32:45,625
And we've seen like the movies about

869
01:32:45,625 --> 01:32:48,000
Monsanto and like, you know, taking over

870
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:50,666
specific areas and taking over farmers

871
01:32:50,666 --> 01:32:53,166
and seed, you know, genetic, genetically

872
01:32:53,166 --> 01:32:54,833
modified seeds and stuff like that.

873
01:32:54,833 --> 01:32:57,125
There's a lot of bad for business as well

874
01:32:57,125 --> 01:32:58,000
as bad for health,

875
01:32:58,541 --> 01:32:59,333
like human health, too.

876
01:32:59,375 --> 01:33:01,291
Exactly. So there's the health side. And

877
01:33:01,291 --> 01:33:05,208
then, yeah, that also, so what, what has

878
01:33:05,208 --> 01:33:07,583
happened in our farming system, you know,

879
01:33:07,583 --> 01:33:09,666
kind of going back to when we shifted

880
01:33:09,666 --> 01:33:12,958
away from regenerative agriculture, we

881
01:33:12,958 --> 01:33:15,708
created these, these synthetic

882
01:33:15,708 --> 01:33:18,458
fertilizers, and most of them actually,

883
01:33:18,833 --> 01:33:21,000
you know, a lot of them were created kind

884
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:22,875
of in the post World War Two era, where

885
01:33:22,875 --> 01:33:25,875
the chemical manufacturers were needing

886
01:33:25,875 --> 01:33:26,666
to figure out what to

887
01:33:26,666 --> 01:33:28,333
do with their plants.

888
01:33:28,375 --> 01:33:30,583
Yeah, plants and they're going to produce

889
01:33:30,583 --> 01:33:35,041
so. So chemical fertilizers and, you

890
01:33:35,041 --> 01:33:37,125
know, and it really like it was a miracle

891
01:33:37,125 --> 01:33:39,291
thing you could you could improve your

892
01:33:39,291 --> 01:33:43,041
crop yields by 5x by

893
01:33:43,041 --> 01:33:44,500
inputting this this chemical.

894
01:33:45,375 --> 01:33:47,916
And then it was kind of this like this

895
01:33:47,916 --> 01:33:50,625
loop because every year you need to put a

896
01:33:50,625 --> 01:33:54,041
little bit more to get the same return on

897
01:33:54,041 --> 01:33:56,083
your on your field because you're not

898
01:33:56,083 --> 01:33:57,625
taking you know you you're not taking

899
01:33:57,625 --> 01:33:59,208
care of the soil, you're

900
01:33:59,208 --> 01:34:00,666
relying on these chemicals.

901
01:34:02,375 --> 01:34:03,875
And so what's happened is a lot of the

902
01:34:03,875 --> 01:34:06,291
farmers find themselves in a cycle where

903
01:34:06,291 --> 01:34:10,500
they need they need the the synthetics in

904
01:34:10,500 --> 01:34:13,250
order to make the way they farm work and

905
01:34:13,250 --> 01:34:14,333
a lot of them you know they learned how

906
01:34:14,333 --> 01:34:15,666
to farm from their dad, they've been

907
01:34:15,666 --> 01:34:17,875
doing it this way for 30 years.

908
01:34:19,375 --> 01:34:21,500
And so it's hard to change your ways and

909
01:34:21,500 --> 01:34:24,083
it's hard to learn something new. And so

910
01:34:24,083 --> 01:34:26,500
it's not it's not always an easy sell to

911
01:34:26,500 --> 01:34:27,958
be like you really should be growing your

912
01:34:27,958 --> 01:34:28,875
food regeneratively.

913
01:34:29,708 --> 01:34:32,500
Like just because they're like, well,

914
01:34:32,500 --> 01:34:34,083
I've always done it this way I don't want

915
01:34:34,083 --> 01:34:36,791
to change. But the farmers who do shift.

916
01:34:37,500 --> 01:34:40,833
They want regenerative regenerative be

917
01:34:40,833 --> 01:34:42,375
grown food can often bring

918
01:34:42,375 --> 01:34:45,416
in a premium price for them.

919
01:34:46,541 --> 01:34:47,833
They can make more money on their crop,

920
01:34:47,833 --> 01:34:51,416
but they also can reduce their their

921
01:34:51,416 --> 01:34:54,000
inputs, like they don't have to spend

922
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:56,416
money on the fertilizers and the

923
01:34:56,416 --> 01:34:57,875
pesticides and the herbicides.

924
01:34:59,833 --> 01:35:03,250
So it's just a win all around really.

925
01:35:03,791 --> 01:35:05,166
Yeah. And plus they're not exposing

926
01:35:05,166 --> 01:35:06,625
themselves to these chemicals too.

927
01:35:06,625 --> 01:35:07,958
There's a danger in working with these

928
01:35:07,958 --> 01:35:09,791
chemicals. You have to be careful you

929
01:35:09,791 --> 01:35:12,000
have to wear certain types of gear and so

930
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,000
forth to be an accident happen.

931
01:35:14,375 --> 01:35:15,708
Like we obviously they try and reduce

932
01:35:15,708 --> 01:35:18,125
them, but accidents happen. Yeah, there's

933
01:35:18,125 --> 01:35:19,833
a really there's a really excellent

934
01:35:19,833 --> 01:35:22,333
documentary called Kiss the Ground, which

935
01:35:22,333 --> 01:35:24,500
gives a really good perspective on some

936
01:35:24,500 --> 01:35:27,916
of the regenerative farmers takes on

937
01:35:27,916 --> 01:35:30,708
this. And yeah, it's it's powerful.

938
01:35:31,375 --> 01:35:33,291
It's powerful. I mean, and it takes I

939
01:35:33,291 --> 01:35:34,708
think it takes these types of

940
01:35:34,708 --> 01:35:37,041
documentaries to educate people like

941
01:35:37,041 --> 01:35:38,791
potential consumers are just people in

942
01:35:38,791 --> 01:35:40,791
the US and Canada and elsewhere where

943
01:35:40,791 --> 01:35:43,083
regenerative practices are trying to be

944
01:35:43,083 --> 01:35:44,750
put back in place, but are not. And we're

945
01:35:44,750 --> 01:35:46,333
looking at what our system has become.

946
01:35:46,833 --> 01:35:49,000
You know, you in marketing, you're trying

947
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:51,916
to tell people about the benefits of of

948
01:35:51,916 --> 01:35:54,083
this bread and and like made from

949
01:35:54,083 --> 01:35:55,916
buckwheat and and how it good like I'm

950
01:35:55,916 --> 01:35:57,250
looking on the website, you get some

951
01:35:57,250 --> 01:36:00,291
pretty great reviews here for people. Did

952
01:36:00,291 --> 01:36:04,750
it is does it take a lot to get people to

953
01:36:04,750 --> 01:36:06,625
try it to try your bread?

954
01:36:10,500 --> 01:36:13,875
Um, like is it like a I guess I get you

955
01:36:13,875 --> 01:36:15,291
know, from a digital perspective when

956
01:36:15,291 --> 01:36:17,791
you're marketing and there's emails going

957
01:36:17,791 --> 01:36:19,875
out or you have an ad on YouTube or you

958
01:36:19,875 --> 01:36:22,666
have an ad on or wherever you place your

959
01:36:22,666 --> 01:36:24,500
ads or wherever you are present in terms

960
01:36:24,500 --> 01:36:26,625
of organically trying to educate people.

961
01:36:27,041 --> 01:36:28,583
Does it take like a certain amount of

962
01:36:28,583 --> 01:36:30,166
times before someone's like, no, you know

963
01:36:30,166 --> 01:36:31,958
what, I'll try it or is it more of like

964
01:36:31,958 --> 01:36:34,333
word of mouth is really helping spread as

965
01:36:34,333 --> 01:36:36,333
people are trying to try this.

966
01:36:37,291 --> 01:36:39,166
I mean, it's a little bit of it's a

967
01:36:39,166 --> 01:36:41,125
little bit of both. So Pacha bread and

968
01:36:41,125 --> 01:36:42,583
like I mentioned, it's not the cheapest

969
01:36:42,583 --> 01:36:44,500
thing on the on the shelf. So we don't

970
01:36:44,500 --> 01:36:46,083
have the benefit of like, Oh, well, this

971
01:36:46,083 --> 01:36:46,958
is the cheapest one. So I'm

972
01:36:46,958 --> 01:36:48,500
just going to grab that. True.

973
01:36:49,916 --> 01:36:51,500
But in terms of like, in

974
01:36:51,500 --> 01:36:53,458
terms of conversion rates

975
01:36:53,708 --> 01:36:55,125
and costs per

976
01:36:55,125 --> 01:36:59,166
acquisition, like, we're not in like,

977
01:36:59,416 --> 01:37:01,583
it's not like we have to pay way more

978
01:37:01,583 --> 01:37:03,041
than the next company, you know?

979
01:37:03,291 --> 01:37:07,375
We're on par with what we

980
01:37:07,375 --> 01:37:09,916
would expect in that zone.

981
01:37:09,916 --> 01:37:12,083
So it's not necessarily, it's not hard

982
01:37:12,083 --> 01:37:13,500
to give people to try it.

983
01:37:14,500 --> 01:37:16,375
It's not harder than we

984
01:37:16,375 --> 01:37:17,458
would expect it to be.

985
01:37:18,250 --> 01:37:18,458
Yeah.

986
01:37:19,708 --> 01:37:19,750
(laughs)

987
01:37:20,250 --> 01:37:21,791
Yeah, and it really depends.

988
01:37:22,500 --> 01:37:23,583
Like, you know, some customers,

989
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:25,791
like it's just the thing

990
01:37:25,791 --> 01:37:26,791
they've been looking for,

991
01:37:26,791 --> 01:37:29,291
especially for people who are allergen,

992
01:37:29,291 --> 01:37:31,625
like really allergen free, like celiac,

993
01:37:31,833 --> 01:37:34,333
and like, yeah, just

994
01:37:34,333 --> 01:37:35,541
can't eat any of the--

995
01:37:35,916 --> 01:37:37,000
Yeah, makes it an easier decision.

996
01:37:37,791 --> 01:37:39,000
Yeah, a lot of the gluten-free breads

997
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:42,041
have like psyllium husk and guar gum

998
01:37:42,250 --> 01:37:43,791
and different kinds of binders

999
01:37:43,791 --> 01:37:45,041
that are not actually

1000
01:37:45,041 --> 01:37:47,333
like super digestible.

1001
01:37:47,375 --> 01:37:49,458
So a lot of people who have inflammation

1002
01:37:49,750 --> 01:37:50,500
and like irritable

1003
01:37:50,500 --> 01:37:52,291
bowel syndrome, et cetera,

1004
01:37:52,291 --> 01:37:53,000
they can't even really

1005
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:54,750
eat the gluten-free options

1006
01:37:54,750 --> 01:37:56,708
that exist, so it's a hard thing.

1007
01:37:56,791 --> 01:37:57,250
I know you're gonna

1008
01:37:57,250 --> 01:37:58,083
be polite and say this,

1009
01:37:58,083 --> 01:37:59,041
but a lot of people that I

1010
01:37:59,041 --> 01:37:59,958
know have gluten allergies

1011
01:38:00,083 --> 01:38:00,916
eat gluten-free bread

1012
01:38:00,916 --> 01:38:01,625
and they say it sucks.

1013
01:38:02,375 --> 01:38:03,250
(laughs) Yeah. It's just a taste.

1014
01:38:03,250 --> 01:38:04,291
It's from general, like,

1015
01:38:04,291 --> 01:38:05,583
not only like the irritation

1016
01:38:05,875 --> 01:38:06,916
and stuff like that from it,

1017
01:38:06,916 --> 01:38:08,041
but also they just say

1018
01:38:08,041 --> 01:38:08,750
it doesn't taste good.

1019
01:38:09,208 --> 01:38:10,333
You know, they don't like the taste,

1020
01:38:10,333 --> 01:38:11,375
they don't feel good after,

1021
01:38:11,375 --> 01:38:11,750
just like you

1022
01:38:11,750 --> 01:38:13,000
mentioned before, like this.

1023
01:38:13,833 --> 01:38:16,708
It's a tough ask, especially, you know,

1024
01:38:16,750 --> 01:38:18,500
when you have to make that change, right?

1025
01:38:18,500 --> 01:38:19,958
And you're trying to find something new.

1026
01:38:20,875 --> 01:38:22,583
Yeah, and you know, pacha bread is,

1027
01:38:23,083 --> 01:38:25,416
it's not trying to be white bread.

1028
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:27,458
I think it's the other thing. Right.

1029
01:38:27,458 --> 01:38:31,000
It's just like, in some ways,

1030
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:33,458
there's a lifestyle shift that happens

1031
01:38:33,750 --> 01:38:34,875
when you start eating pacha bread

1032
01:38:34,958 --> 01:38:36,833
because you're not consuming it.

1033
01:38:36,833 --> 01:38:37,583
Like, I don't make

1034
01:38:37,583 --> 01:38:39,125
sandwiches with my pacha bread.

1035
01:38:39,125 --> 01:38:40,833
I make like open-faced sandwiches

1036
01:38:41,208 --> 01:38:43,333
or I kind of use them as like English,

1037
01:38:43,583 --> 01:38:44,666
we have English muffins

1038
01:38:44,666 --> 01:38:45,666
and I like to make like

1039
01:38:46,166 --> 01:38:47,416
egg sandwiches on that.

1040
01:38:47,458 --> 01:38:48,916
Oh yeah. But it's, yeah,

1041
01:38:48,916 --> 01:38:51,166
it's just like a slightly different,

1042
01:38:51,166 --> 01:38:53,000
it's almost its own category of food.

1043
01:38:53,208 --> 01:38:54,083
So when you really

1044
01:38:54,083 --> 01:38:56,791
getting people into pacha bread,

1045
01:38:57,375 --> 01:38:58,375
like once people are in, they're like,

1046
01:38:58,375 --> 01:38:59,958
I'm never going back, but.

1047
01:39:00,875 --> 01:39:01,958
I see that, I see that

1048
01:39:01,958 --> 01:39:03,166
review on there, yeah.

1049
01:39:03,500 --> 01:39:04,208
Yeah, totally.

1050
01:39:05,458 --> 01:39:07,333
However, we are, we

1051
01:39:07,333 --> 01:39:10,000
just released tortillas.

1052
01:39:10,750 --> 01:39:11,500
Oh, cool.

1053
01:39:12,125 --> 01:39:13,791
Yeah, and they're incredible.

1054
01:39:14,041 --> 01:39:15,291
They are made with the

1055
01:39:15,291 --> 01:39:16,708
same base as our bread.

1056
01:39:16,708 --> 01:39:18,208
So it's still, it's like two ingredients.

1057
01:39:18,208 --> 01:39:19,708
It's just buckwheat and salt.

1058
01:39:20,500 --> 01:39:22,375
And yeah.

1059
01:39:22,625 --> 01:39:23,666
No chemicals, nothing else

1060
01:39:23,666 --> 01:39:25,416
added, like none of that.

1061
01:39:25,625 --> 01:39:25,833
Nothing.

1062
01:39:26,250 --> 01:39:26,958
They're, and so they're

1063
01:39:26,958 --> 01:39:29,166
super clean, allergen front,

1064
01:39:29,583 --> 01:39:31,041
allergen free, gluten free.

1065
01:39:31,916 --> 01:39:33,166
And they, yeah, they're

1066
01:39:33,166 --> 01:39:36,250
like, they perform somewhere

1067
01:39:36,375 --> 01:39:37,541
between a corn

1068
01:39:37,541 --> 01:39:39,625
tortilla and a wheat tortilla,

1069
01:39:39,625 --> 01:39:40,208
obviously like the

1070
01:39:40,208 --> 01:39:41,458
gluten in a wheat tortilla,

1071
01:39:41,458 --> 01:39:43,458
just like you can do, you can fold it,

1072
01:39:43,500 --> 01:39:44,791
you can stretch it, whatever.

1073
01:39:45,750 --> 01:39:46,500
That's really hard to

1074
01:39:46,500 --> 01:39:48,416
achieve with gluten free.

1075
01:39:49,166 --> 01:39:50,541
For sure, yeah.

1076
01:39:51,250 --> 01:39:52,750
Yeah, but our tortillas, they're like,

1077
01:39:52,958 --> 01:39:54,916
we actually have quite a

1078
01:39:54,916 --> 01:39:55,750
few people at our facility

1079
01:39:56,041 --> 01:39:57,041
who are from Mexico

1080
01:39:57,041 --> 01:39:58,583
who do the production.

1081
01:39:58,791 --> 01:39:59,708
They're like, this

1082
01:39:59,708 --> 01:40:02,541
is, this right here now,

1083
01:40:02,541 --> 01:40:03,625
this is a good tortilla,

1084
01:40:03,625 --> 01:40:04,666
like this feels authentic.

1085
01:40:06,875 --> 01:40:08,291
That's a good thing to

1086
01:40:08,291 --> 01:40:09,666
have when you have like people

1087
01:40:09,666 --> 01:40:10,875
who have tortillas on

1088
01:40:10,875 --> 01:40:11,958
a fairly regular basis,

1089
01:40:12,250 --> 01:40:13,958
being like, yeah, this is what we want,

1090
01:40:13,958 --> 01:40:15,250
like this is the

1091
01:40:15,250 --> 01:40:17,375
stuff, yeah, that's awesome.

1092
01:40:17,375 --> 01:40:18,208
So like when it comes

1093
01:40:18,208 --> 01:40:19,875
to the company here,

1094
01:40:21,916 --> 01:40:24,500
and just, obviously the values are high

1095
01:40:24,500 --> 01:40:25,541
in terms of clean eating,

1096
01:40:26,041 --> 01:40:27,958
less chemicals, no chemicals,

1097
01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:30,541
buckwheat, going a

1098
01:40:30,541 --> 01:40:32,291
different way of farming,

1099
01:40:32,291 --> 01:40:34,041
regenerative farming, it's

1100
01:40:34,041 --> 01:40:35,791
a big part of your values

1101
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:36,708
as a company.

1102
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:38,000
And like, as you mentioned,

1103
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:38,625
it's not necessarily

1104
01:40:38,625 --> 01:40:39,750
what you're marketing on

1105
01:40:39,750 --> 01:40:40,250
because you want

1106
01:40:40,250 --> 01:40:41,291
people to taste the bread,

1107
01:40:41,291 --> 01:40:44,458
you want people to go with what has it.

1108
01:40:44,875 --> 01:40:47,333
Like how big of a part is

1109
01:40:47,333 --> 01:40:49,583
the value part of your company

1110
01:40:49,791 --> 01:40:52,791
to you as well as the staff?

1111
01:40:52,791 --> 01:40:54,291
I believe there's, there's what about,

1112
01:40:54,708 --> 01:40:55,500
is how many people

1113
01:40:55,500 --> 01:40:56,541
work for you right now?

1114
01:40:56,875 --> 01:40:58,500
We've got like 25.

1115
01:40:59,625 --> 01:41:00,708
25, okay.

1116
01:41:00,916 --> 01:41:02,041
So like, you know, small

1117
01:41:02,041 --> 01:41:03,708
to medium sized company,

1118
01:41:03,708 --> 01:41:05,791
but like how important

1119
01:41:05,791 --> 01:41:07,083
is that to the staff,

1120
01:41:07,333 --> 01:41:09,208
to you, to your husband,

1121
01:41:09,208 --> 01:41:09,958
like a co-founder Adam,

1122
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:12,291
like how big was creating

1123
01:41:12,291 --> 01:41:13,875
those, that value system,

1124
01:41:13,875 --> 01:41:15,166
not just for the product, but

1125
01:41:15,166 --> 01:41:16,541
just for yourselves as well,

1126
01:41:16,541 --> 01:41:17,750
you being an oceanographer,

1127
01:41:17,750 --> 01:41:18,791
understanding climate change,

1128
01:41:19,083 --> 01:41:20,125
understanding what it can do,

1129
01:41:20,375 --> 01:41:22,166
understanding that the powerful impact of

1130
01:41:22,166 --> 01:41:24,041
regenerative agriculture.

1131
01:41:25,166 --> 01:41:27,791
When we talk a lot about ESGs and all

1132
01:41:27,791 --> 01:41:28,583
these types of things,

1133
01:41:28,583 --> 01:41:30,416
when we talk about values for companies,

1134
01:41:30,416 --> 01:41:32,666
how big was that for all of

1135
01:41:32,666 --> 01:41:34,208
you to create those values?

1136
01:41:35,083 --> 01:41:40,000
I mean, I'll just say that the company

1137
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:42,041
wouldn't exist without the values.

1138
01:41:42,708 --> 01:41:43,708
True, true.

1139
01:41:44,083 --> 01:41:46,166
Like, you know, Adam and

1140
01:41:46,166 --> 01:41:48,791
specifically our founding team,

1141
01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:51,250
the people who like birthed it,

1142
01:41:52,375 --> 01:41:56,958
we were clear that this was why we were

1143
01:41:56,958 --> 01:41:58,000
making this company.

1144
01:41:59,083 --> 01:41:59,291
Yeah.

1145
01:41:59,458 --> 01:41:59,666
Like,

1146
01:42:00,708 --> 01:42:03,166
it wasn't like, it wasn't like, let's

1147
01:42:03,166 --> 01:42:04,666
make as much money as possible and that

1148
01:42:04,666 --> 01:42:06,000
will screw the rest.

1149
01:42:06,208 --> 01:42:08,250
It's let's make a great product for

1150
01:42:08,250 --> 01:42:09,916
people like that is healthy for people.

1151
01:42:09,916 --> 01:42:11,416
That's, that's good for the environment.

1152
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:13,375
And let's make some money while we do it.

1153
01:42:13,375 --> 01:42:14,875
It's still a company, still for profit

1154
01:42:14,875 --> 01:42:16,833
company, but we want to have,

1155
01:42:16,833 --> 01:42:19,708
it has to be this, it has to have

1156
01:42:19,708 --> 01:42:21,125
regenerative agriculture, less,

1157
01:42:21,125 --> 01:42:23,500
like no chemicals, be good for people, be

1158
01:42:23,500 --> 01:42:24,958
healthy, be healthy for the environment.

1159
01:42:25,416 --> 01:42:27,666
That was the big thing, right?

1160
01:42:28,541 --> 01:42:30,833
Yeah. And I mean, and I also think that

1161
01:42:30,833 --> 01:42:36,166
there, there's a genuine trust.

1162
01:42:36,708 --> 01:42:38,041
I'm going to believe, isn't quite the

1163
01:42:38,041 --> 01:42:41,250
word, it's genuine trust that this is

1164
01:42:41,250 --> 01:42:43,125
where business has to go.

1165
01:42:43,708 --> 01:42:43,916
Yeah.

1166
01:42:44,041 --> 01:42:47,875
Like we, we, we have to start doing this

1167
01:42:47,875 --> 01:42:51,458
and Pacha is on the leading

1168
01:42:51,458 --> 01:42:54,750
edge of a movement that is,

1169
01:42:54,750 --> 01:42:58,125
that is building and unfolding and yeah,

1170
01:42:58,500 --> 01:43:01,250
if we're going to have food

1171
01:43:01,250 --> 01:43:02,708
farmed from our farmlands,

1172
01:43:02,708 --> 01:43:04,250
we have to start shifting, you know,

1173
01:43:04,250 --> 01:43:06,791
there's like an estimate that there are

1174
01:43:06,791 --> 01:43:12,041
60 harvests left from most of like 95%

1175
01:43:12,708 --> 01:43:14,666
of the farmable land in our country.

1176
01:43:16,208 --> 01:43:18,208
60 harvest is like 30 years if we keep

1177
01:43:18,208 --> 01:43:19,041
going the way we're

1178
01:43:19,041 --> 01:43:21,375
going. That's terrifying.

1179
01:43:22,041 --> 01:43:22,666
That is terrifying.

1180
01:43:23,041 --> 01:43:23,750
That is very terrifying.

1181
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:26,000
But when you install things like

1182
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:28,250
regenerative agriculture, now you're

1183
01:43:28,250 --> 01:43:30,375
looking at extending that like,

1184
01:43:31,166 --> 01:43:34,166
Indefinitely. If you truly are caring for

1185
01:43:34,166 --> 01:43:36,791
the ecosystem and nurturing, like just,

1186
01:43:37,416 --> 01:43:39,583
if the main thing you're caring for is

1187
01:43:39,583 --> 01:43:41,041
the soil, the soil is

1188
01:43:41,041 --> 01:43:41,708
going to care for you.

1189
01:43:42,708 --> 01:43:44,875
Yeah. Now, here's a question that you may

1190
01:43:44,875 --> 01:43:46,458
or may not be able to answer because

1191
01:43:46,458 --> 01:43:47,208
like, obviously

1192
01:43:47,208 --> 01:43:48,500
here's the problem is like,

1193
01:43:48,708 --> 01:43:49,791
you know, we have a problem where we have

1194
01:43:49,791 --> 01:43:52,500
60 harvest left, about 30 years left of

1195
01:43:52,500 --> 01:43:54,000
agriculture and within the United States.

1196
01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:55,333
I'm sure it's very similar to Canada.

1197
01:43:57,000 --> 01:43:58,583
Regenerative agriculture really will help

1198
01:43:58,583 --> 01:43:59,500
to make it indefinite.

1199
01:44:00,083 --> 01:44:02,875
How do we make that shift on a larger

1200
01:44:02,875 --> 01:44:05,958
scale, not just company after company,

1201
01:44:05,958 --> 01:44:07,000
but just being like,

1202
01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:07,666
we need to make this.

1203
01:44:07,708 --> 01:44:10,291
Is that a policy decision that needs to

1204
01:44:10,291 --> 01:44:12,333
take place to really move the needle or

1205
01:44:12,333 --> 01:44:13,833
is it more of just education

1206
01:44:13,833 --> 01:44:15,916
for business owners or both?

1207
01:44:16,708 --> 01:44:20,250
Yeah, I mean, to move at the pace that I

1208
01:44:20,250 --> 01:44:21,875
think we need to move at, it's, you know,

1209
01:44:22,500 --> 01:44:23,541
attack on all fronts.

1210
01:44:25,208 --> 01:44:28,208
I do think that policy is going to be key

1211
01:44:28,208 --> 01:44:32,083
in making the shift. What exactly, what

1212
01:44:32,083 --> 01:44:33,666
kind of policy that needs to be,

1213
01:44:33,708 --> 01:44:38,750
it's hard to say, you know, like one of

1214
01:44:38,750 --> 01:44:41,291
the issues with regenerative agriculture

1215
01:44:41,291 --> 01:44:43,791
is that it's actually not well defined.

1216
01:44:44,583 --> 01:44:48,416
Mm hmm. Gotcha. So kind of like, you

1217
01:44:48,416 --> 01:44:50,541
know, you got your organic certification

1218
01:44:50,541 --> 01:44:52,375
and one of the issues with the organic

1219
01:44:52,375 --> 01:44:52,666
certification was like,

1220
01:44:52,708 --> 01:44:57,708
we had to define it really well in order

1221
01:44:57,708 --> 01:45:00,500
to make it a USDA certification. And in

1222
01:45:00,500 --> 01:45:07,083
doing so, we actually, like, some of the

1223
01:45:07,083 --> 01:45:10,000
heart of what it was got lost and like,

1224
01:45:10,208 --> 01:45:11,750
you know, you had to have hydroponically

1225
01:45:11,750 --> 01:45:14,666
grown organic, organic certified produce,

1226
01:45:15,708 --> 01:45:17,875
which is like, well, it's not really what

1227
01:45:17,875 --> 01:45:20,083
we were trying to do with organic

1228
01:45:20,083 --> 01:45:23,291
certification, but technically they are

1229
01:45:23,291 --> 01:45:24,583
meeting all the standards.

1230
01:45:26,375 --> 01:45:29,625
But, you know, in terms of making policy,

1231
01:45:30,333 --> 01:45:36,000
like, yeah, I think one of the most, for

1232
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:38,458
me, at least one of the most interesting

1233
01:45:38,458 --> 01:45:42,666
ideas is just implementing a carbon tax.

1234
01:45:42,708 --> 01:45:48,500
I think would be is potentially one of

1235
01:45:48,500 --> 01:45:50,041
the most effective ways, but then

1236
01:45:50,041 --> 01:45:53,541
assessing how, how, you know, like if

1237
01:45:53,541 --> 01:45:56,000
there were carbon tax and you were just,

1238
01:45:56,666 --> 01:45:57,666
well, okay, there's two pieces.

1239
01:45:57,708 --> 01:46:02,333
If there was a carbon tax and the and the

1240
01:46:02,333 --> 01:46:07,750
you also most we didn't say this, but

1241
01:46:07,750 --> 01:46:10,416
most of the pesticides herbicides and the

1242
01:46:10,416 --> 01:46:12,416
synthetic fertilizers, those are all

1243
01:46:12,416 --> 01:46:13,208
petrochemicals.

1244
01:46:13,458 --> 01:46:15,166
They're all from petroleum.

1245
01:46:15,166 --> 01:46:17,500
Right, right. So you're

1246
01:46:17,500 --> 01:46:18,666
reducing that right away. Yeah.

1247
01:46:18,708 --> 01:46:19,041
You know, you're going to have to tax

1248
01:46:19,041 --> 01:46:22,875
that. Yeah, yeah. And get rid of the

1249
01:46:22,875 --> 01:46:26,916
subsidies that currently exist for the

1250
01:46:26,916 --> 01:46:29,541
wheat, soy and corn that are growing in

1251
01:46:29,541 --> 01:46:30,875
this country. We have, you know, we have

1252
01:46:30,875 --> 01:46:34,083
the government is paying farmers to over

1253
01:46:34,083 --> 01:46:36,916
produce crops from these conventional

1254
01:46:36,916 --> 01:46:41,000
systems that that would not that would

1255
01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:42,125
not be viable in the

1256
01:46:42,125 --> 01:46:43,375
marketplace without the subsidies.

1257
01:46:43,708 --> 01:46:45,208
Right. People wouldn't buy them.

1258
01:46:45,541 --> 01:46:46,541
Companies wouldn't buy them if they had

1259
01:46:46,541 --> 01:46:48,291
to pay full price for them. Of course, if

1260
01:46:48,291 --> 01:46:50,625
the farmers had expensive. Yeah. Yeah.

1261
01:46:51,541 --> 01:46:54,000
And so I think on a policy level, there's

1262
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:56,208
a lot that can be done. And it's it's

1263
01:46:56,208 --> 01:46:59,250
complicated. It is. Well, it's also

1264
01:46:59,250 --> 01:47:01,750
complicated. Yeah. And so many people

1265
01:47:01,750 --> 01:47:03,750
have like, it's so ingrained in our

1266
01:47:03,750 --> 01:47:05,291
system now that the current system of

1267
01:47:05,291 --> 01:47:06,666
farming that it would be difficult to go

1268
01:47:06,666 --> 01:47:08,208
back to regenerative farming, just like

1269
01:47:08,208 --> 01:47:10,708
renewable energy versus, you know, fossil

1270
01:47:10,708 --> 01:47:12,208
fuel energy. It's it's

1271
01:47:12,208 --> 01:47:12,666
it's it's it's not an easy.

1272
01:47:12,708 --> 01:47:15,083
Switch if it was easy, it would probably

1273
01:47:15,083 --> 01:47:16,958
been done already. But there's a lot of

1274
01:47:16,958 --> 01:47:18,791
people who have a lot of money tied into

1275
01:47:18,791 --> 01:47:21,000
these systems. And, you know, they do not

1276
01:47:21,000 --> 01:47:22,166
want to change. And they want to keep

1277
01:47:22,166 --> 01:47:23,500
their lifestyle and they want to keep

1278
01:47:23,500 --> 01:47:25,041
their money that they make. And it's and

1279
01:47:25,041 --> 01:47:28,000
it can be very difficult. But I love the

1280
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:31,041
fact that, you know, Patches is like

1281
01:47:31,041 --> 01:47:33,000
spearheading, just be like, you know

1282
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:34,083
what, like, we're just going to continue

1283
01:47:34,083 --> 01:47:35,333
going what we're going to do. And we're

1284
01:47:35,333 --> 01:47:36,625
going to show that it can be done. It can

1285
01:47:36,625 --> 01:47:38,958
be done well. And we can be successful at

1286
01:47:38,958 --> 01:47:41,375
doing it. And I think we just have to

1287
01:47:41,375 --> 01:47:41,666
ensure that our values are supported.

1288
01:47:41,708 --> 01:47:42,916
We have to ensure that our values stay

1289
01:47:42,916 --> 01:47:45,250
the same and that we continue to

1290
01:47:45,250 --> 01:47:47,750
challenge ourselves to continue to either

1291
01:47:47,750 --> 01:47:51,750
grow our product type or even just make

1292
01:47:51,750 --> 01:47:53,791
our product even better and better as we

1293
01:47:53,791 --> 01:47:55,791
go along as we do more and more research.

1294
01:47:56,750 --> 01:47:59,666
And I do love that now to just to kind of

1295
01:47:59,666 --> 01:48:01,583
let people know, Patrick, where can

1296
01:48:01,583 --> 01:48:03,583
people find Patrick to

1297
01:48:03,583 --> 01:48:04,708
pick it up and give it a try?

1298
01:48:05,708 --> 01:48:08,500
So easiest place, Whole Foods were

1299
01:48:08,500 --> 01:48:12,291
nationwide in the frozen section. OK. And

1300
01:48:12,291 --> 01:48:13,875
we also sell our bread nationwide through

1301
01:48:13,875 --> 01:48:18,541
our website, livepacha.com. There's also,

1302
01:48:18,541 --> 01:48:20,625
you know, other independence and some

1303
01:48:20,625 --> 01:48:22,750
smaller change chains in Southern

1304
01:48:22,750 --> 01:48:24,416
California and the Pacific Northwest.

1305
01:48:25,625 --> 01:48:27,458
If you want to try to find a physical

1306
01:48:27,458 --> 01:48:29,833
location, we have a store locator on our

1307
01:48:29,833 --> 01:48:31,000
website that you can check out.

1308
01:48:32,166 --> 01:48:36,583
Yeah. Awesome. If you want the tortillas,

1309
01:48:36,583 --> 01:48:41,000
you got to buy them online. Wonderful. I

1310
01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:42,375
mean, this is great. I think this is

1311
01:48:42,375 --> 01:48:45,000
really this is really great to see this

1312
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:47,416
company continue to do what it's supposed

1313
01:48:47,416 --> 01:48:49,541
to do and to be good for not only the

1314
01:48:49,541 --> 01:48:50,708
people that use it, but

1315
01:48:50,708 --> 01:48:51,541
also for the environment.

1316
01:48:51,708 --> 01:48:53,500
And I love that. I love how you came on

1317
01:48:53,500 --> 01:48:55,375
here and spreading your message. It's

1318
01:48:55,375 --> 01:48:58,916
fantastic to have you on. I'd love to

1319
01:48:58,916 --> 01:49:01,625
have you back on, Maddie. And maybe Adam

1320
01:49:01,625 --> 01:49:03,708
would come on next time to you and talk

1321
01:49:03,708 --> 01:49:05,916
about more about some of the products

1322
01:49:05,916 --> 01:49:07,375
that you're doing and some of the more

1323
01:49:07,375 --> 01:49:08,875
about regenerative agriculture.

1324
01:49:09,083 --> 01:49:10,291
I think we're just scratching the surface

1325
01:49:10,291 --> 01:49:11,916
when we come in, how it could be

1326
01:49:11,916 --> 01:49:14,125
implemented on a wider scale. But we want

1327
01:49:14,125 --> 01:49:15,708
to thank you so much for coming on the

1328
01:49:15,708 --> 01:49:18,541
show and sharing your story. Thanks so

1329
01:49:18,541 --> 01:49:19,583
much. It was great to be here.

1330
01:49:19,708 --> 01:49:21,000
Thank you, Maddie, for joining us on

1331
01:49:21,000 --> 01:49:22,416
today's episode of the How to Protect the

1332
01:49:22,416 --> 01:49:23,625
Ocean podcast. It was great to have you

1333
01:49:23,625 --> 01:49:25,666
on. It was great to speak to someone who

1334
01:49:25,666 --> 01:49:27,583
has pivoted so many times in their life

1335
01:49:27,583 --> 01:49:29,000
to say, hey, you know what? I want to

1336
01:49:29,000 --> 01:49:30,458
have an effect on the planet. I want to

1337
01:49:30,458 --> 01:49:32,333
make sure that I do something good. And

1338
01:49:32,333 --> 01:49:34,833
that's to start a business that not only

1339
01:49:34,833 --> 01:49:36,666
has great values, but makes a great

1340
01:49:36,666 --> 01:49:38,791
product that people can enjoy. And they

1341
01:49:38,791 --> 01:49:40,333
know it's healthy for them. And you don't

1342
01:49:40,333 --> 01:49:42,166
market based on that. You market based on

1343
01:49:42,166 --> 01:49:44,291
the tastiness and how it fits into their

1344
01:49:44,291 --> 01:49:46,541
lives and why they should have it. But I

1345
01:49:46,541 --> 01:49:48,500
really think this is something that we

1346
01:49:48,500 --> 01:49:48,666
need to support more of.

1347
01:49:48,708 --> 01:49:51,083
We need to support businesses have these

1348
01:49:51,083 --> 01:49:53,083
values no matter what they're selling it

1349
01:49:53,083 --> 01:49:54,833
on or how they're marketing their item.

1350
01:49:55,250 --> 01:49:56,666
But they have these values regardless

1351
01:49:56,666 --> 01:49:57,875
because they want to do something that's

1352
01:49:57,875 --> 01:49:59,416
good for the planet because they we need

1353
01:49:59,416 --> 01:50:00,625
to do something that's good for the

1354
01:50:00,625 --> 01:50:02,208
planet. We need to talk about

1355
01:50:02,208 --> 01:50:04,000
regenerative agriculture. This is

1356
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:05,791
something that's extremely important to

1357
01:50:05,791 --> 01:50:07,541
not only the company, but also to our

1358
01:50:07,541 --> 01:50:10,666
planet and how it can conserve water, how

1359
01:50:10,666 --> 01:50:12,666
it can make sure that it's something that

1360
01:50:12,666 --> 01:50:14,958
is a big thing. It's a big deal. It's

1361
01:50:14,958 --> 01:50:17,416
good for the soil, which is good for the

1362
01:50:17,416 --> 01:50:17,666
ocean. Eventually, it's good for the planet.

1363
01:50:17,708 --> 01:50:21,041
Which is good for you. And I think that

1364
01:50:21,041 --> 01:50:24,083
is a great sales pitch in my opinion.

1365
01:50:24,083 --> 01:50:25,958
That's how it sells to me. But also it's

1366
01:50:25,958 --> 01:50:27,791
great tasting bread and something I wish

1367
01:50:27,791 --> 01:50:30,666
I can get access to on a more frequent

1368
01:50:30,666 --> 01:50:32,958
basis. But I live here in Canada. And

1369
01:50:32,958 --> 01:50:34,333
unfortunately, it's not available right

1370
01:50:34,333 --> 01:50:36,708
now. Hopefully in the future. But if

1371
01:50:36,708 --> 01:50:37,625
you're in the US and you want to get

1372
01:50:37,625 --> 01:50:39,375
access to it, I'll put the link in the

1373
01:50:39,375 --> 01:50:40,875
show notes. You can find out where it's

1374
01:50:40,875 --> 01:50:43,291
being sold. And I think it's Whole Foods.

1375
01:50:43,291 --> 01:50:45,375
This is what she said. But so check out

1376
01:50:45,375 --> 01:50:45,875
your local Whole

1377
01:50:45,875 --> 01:50:46,666
Foods. But this is so great.

1378
01:50:46,708 --> 01:50:48,458
It's so great to be able to speak to

1379
01:50:48,458 --> 01:50:50,000
someone like Maddie who's got an

1380
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:51,583
oceanography background, understands the

1381
01:50:51,583 --> 01:50:53,291
role of the ocean that plays in the

1382
01:50:53,291 --> 01:50:55,291
regulation of our planet, but also looks

1383
01:50:55,291 --> 01:50:57,541
at different aspects of life. Looking at

1384
01:50:57,541 --> 01:50:59,250
regenerative agriculture as a way to

1385
01:50:59,250 --> 01:51:01,083
protect the planet and to conserve the

1386
01:51:01,083 --> 01:51:02,125
planet is something

1387
01:51:02,125 --> 01:51:02,666
that's really interesting.

1388
01:51:02,708 --> 01:51:04,625
And I just love the fact that she's out

1389
01:51:04,625 --> 01:51:06,708
here doing this building a business

1390
01:51:06,708 --> 01:51:08,750
that's greater husband who's you know,

1391
01:51:08,750 --> 01:51:12,583
multi entrepreneur does a lot of

1392
01:51:12,583 --> 01:51:14,458
different things led them to this

1393
01:51:14,458 --> 01:51:16,250
business here and something that's very

1394
01:51:16,250 --> 01:51:18,083
successful. And so that's great with

1395
01:51:18,083 --> 01:51:20,583
great values for the planet. So thank you

1396
01:51:20,583 --> 01:51:22,625
again, Maddie, for joining us on today's

1397
01:51:22,625 --> 01:51:24,916
episode. We're gonna put the links to the

1398
01:51:24,916 --> 01:51:26,750
all the things that that will lead her

1399
01:51:26,750 --> 01:51:28,833
and connect you with her and the business

1400
01:51:28,833 --> 01:51:31,666
of patcha and also buy the product if you can. If you're in the US.

1401
01:51:31,708 --> 01:51:34,125
Buy the product. But if you're not just

1402
01:51:34,125 --> 01:51:37,333
listen to the story. We don't also we

1403
01:51:37,333 --> 01:51:39,500
don't need as many scientists in marine

1404
01:51:39,500 --> 01:51:42,250
biology or even just conservationists.

1405
01:51:42,250 --> 01:51:43,583
Well, of course we need them but not as

1406
01:51:43,583 --> 01:51:46,541
many as we need in businesses that will

1407
01:51:46,541 --> 01:51:48,958
create great things that have great

1408
01:51:48,958 --> 01:51:51,250
values for the planet and for healthy

1409
01:51:51,250 --> 01:51:54,125
systems in general. And that's what we

1410
01:51:54,125 --> 01:51:55,833
need. So this is a great inspiration for

1411
01:51:55,833 --> 01:51:57,166
that. So thank you again to Maddie and

1412
01:51:57,166 --> 01:51:58,666
thank you for listening to this episode

1413
01:51:58,666 --> 01:52:00,458
of the how to protect the ocean podcast.

1414
01:52:00,458 --> 01:52:02,708
If you have any questions or comments, please do let us know. And I'll see you next time.