Map the Deep Sea: How Ocean Mapping Drives Conservation, Equity, and Innovation

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Most of the planet is ocean.

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Yet over 75% of the sea floor
remains unmapped in high resolution.

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The deep sea is earth's final
frontier, home to ancient life.

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Vital ecosystems and untapped discoveries.

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Without maps, we can't protect
what we don't know exists.

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Threatened coral reefs,
biodiversity hotspots.

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Or submarine landslides.

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Oil and gas can drill, cables can
be laid, and mining can begin all

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in areas we've barely explored.

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Map the gaps brings together the
global ocean mapping community

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to close this knowledge gap.

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Through technology, science and
collaboration, they chart the unseen to

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inform policy conservation and innovation
mapping isn't just about data, it's

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about equity, inclusion, and shared
stewardship of our ocean commerce.

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Indigenous voices, small island
nations and emerging ocean leaders

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are crucial to this global effort.

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With each mapped ridge or trench, we
unlock climate clues, disaster risk,

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insights, and marine management tools.

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'cause of better Ocean map means
a better future for nature,

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for science, and for all of us.

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Today I'll be speaking to Tim Kerns
of Map the Gaps on this episode of

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the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and
this is the podcast where you find

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out what's happening with the ocean,
how you can speak up for the ocean,

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and what you can do to live for
a better ocean by taking action.

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And I'm gonna tell you something
that I discovered really recently.

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Map the gaps is one of
these projects that.

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Doesn't always see the big, bright lights
of, you know, the news or of the main

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focus of what people are talking about
when we talks about exploring the ocean,

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but mapping gaps in the ocean, mapping
the deep sea is extremely important

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and crucial for our entire existence.

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Let's be honest, this is
something that needs to happen.

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We need to map the gaps, and I'm
so excited to be speaking with Tim

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Kerns, who is from Map the Gaps,
but is also a former teacher of mine

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when I did my GIS Analyst Advanced
Diploma in 2003, 2004, at the Center

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Geographical Sciences in Nova Scotia.

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When I was a kid, when I was doing
my master's, I did this diploma.

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I met Tim.

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He has this.

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Energy around him that
you can't duplicate.

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He loves to talk about exploration,
loves to talk about sea floor, and

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this is just a perfect project for him.

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Perfect opportunity for him, not only
to discuss the map the GAP symposium,

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but also discuss the future of Map
the gaps and why we need to map.

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The gaps.

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It's gonna be a lot of fun.

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This interview.

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I can't wait for you guys to see the
interview if you're watching this

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on YouTube or you're listening to
this on your favorite podcast app.

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But definitely this is one
you don't want to miss.

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If you want to know the future of
Oceans and why we need to map the

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gaps, this is the episode for you.

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So here's the interview with Tim Kerns.

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Enjoy and I will talk to you after.

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Hey Tim, welcome to the How
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about Map the gaps?

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I am always ready to
talk about map the gaps.

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Awesome.

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Well, this is a very special episode
for me today because Tim and I, not

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only are we gonna be talking about
mapping the ocean, which is something

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that's both a passion of ours, but Tim
was a teacher of mine when I actually

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did my GIS Analyst, advanced diploma
at COGS University in Nova Scotia.

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He taught me remote sensing.

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We had a great time in your class, Tim.

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It was always fun.

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Not only did we get to know you in the
class, but we also got to know you,

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like in the lab, around the campus.

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You were a lot of fun just as
well as all the other teachers.

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And it was great, uh, to be able
to see it and then come, you

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know, 20 over 20 years later.

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We're not gonna say how old we
are, but you know, 20 years later.

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Here we are talking on the podcast
about mapping and looking at deep

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sea oceans and why we need to map
these gaps that we have in the ocean.

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I am super excited to be able to talk
about this, but before we do, Tim,

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why don't you just let the audience
know who you are and what you do.

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Okay.

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Well, thanks Andrew for the introduction.

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And I will also say it's, it's always
really, uh, very rewarding to me.

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I mean, I taught for five years Yeah.

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At, uh, the College of Geographic
Sciences, which is now part of

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Nova Scotia Community College.

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And, uh, it's very rewarding to know
where students ended up in their careers.

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So it's great and a little
bit happenstance, the

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happenstance that here we are.

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Something, something many years later and
you're highly successful in your career.

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Thank you.

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And I just think that's great and what a
great opportunity we have to chat again.

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Absolutely.

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After these, uh, after these long years.

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So, uh, thanks And, uh, my name's
Tim Kerns and I've been with

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Map the Gap since 2019, which
is when the company was founded.

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I've developed my whole career
around ocean related technology

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and almost always around ocean.

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Floor mapping or ocean floor exploration.

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So rewind back to when I lived in Ontario.

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Yeah.

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And I was in, uh, university and I
did a geography undergrad and didn't

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really know what I wanted to do with it.

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I knew I liked mapping, I
took an oceanography course.

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Hmm.

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And that opened my eyes Yeah.

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To the world of oceanography.

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And even though I grew up in
Ontario, I immediately had this.

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Inexplicable love for the ocean, uh, that
I'm sure still my parents scratch their

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heads over and I knew that I needed to go
out and dis and do ocean floor mapping.

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Yeah.

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That's what I wanted to do.

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And so I was very fortunate.

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Uh, and I went and I actually
was a student as well at the

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College of Geographic Sciences.

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Yeah.

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Or COGS as people say.

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And although I did a remote sensing.

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Uh, advanced diploma, I actually
tailored most of my work around ocean

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floor mapping, and it was just, I was
just a sponge of information and, uh,

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eventually got hired at the Bed Bedford
Institute of Oceanography mm-hmm.

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With the Canadian Hydrographic
Service, where it was a fire hose

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of knowledge and training and, and
the beginning of my career really.

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In this, uh, fascinating technology.

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So that's, that's, that was a
little bit of where I was Yeah.

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At the beginning of my career.

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And I've done a lot of
things over the years.

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I've taught, as you mentioned, I've
been in software development, uh, I've

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led project teams and consulting teams.

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I've run companies and I've
supported companies and worked

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in hardware and software.

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And most recently at a nonprofit
doing amazing work around marine

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observations in the Great Lakes
and supporting Lakebed 2030.

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And, uh, now I'm, uh, still supporting Map
the Gaps, which is really a non-profit.

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Yeah.

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It's mostly volunteer run and has
been since 2019 and Map the Gaps

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was kind of founded out of the Shell
Ocean Discovery XPRIZE competition.

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Hmm.

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Which, uh, I was part of a
team that started in 2016.

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Yeah.

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And this was a think of a bad news Bears.

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Uh, uh, kind of a ragtag group of
people from all over the world.

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Uh, we had almost no money, but
we were very generously supported

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by the Nip on Foundation.

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Mm-hmm.

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Who supported our team.

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We put together a submission and
a proposal to the Shell Ocean

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Discovery xprize, and our team ended
up winning the whole darn thing.

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It was quite remarkable.

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Uh, we were the underdog and we
still pulled it off, and after

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that we wanted to keep the spirit
alive of doing amazing things.

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Yeah.

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With.

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A disparate group of people
from all over the world.

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Yeah.

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And boom, map the gaps was formed.

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Amazing.

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Just to go back, I forgot
that you grew up in Ontario.

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What university did you go to
where you took oceanography?

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I went to University of Windsor, which
I don't think is known for oceanography

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program, but it had one course, yeah.

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In maybe third year.

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And, uh, and I loved it and it was great.

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Love it.

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Well, it does have a good fisheries
program, if I'm not mistaken.

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Like I remember that was one
of my universities I went to.

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I went to Guelph, but, uh, no, Windsor was
really good in their, in their biology and

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their like physical sciences and stuff.

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And, and, and that's awesome.

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Um.

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Now with, with map the gaps, I
mean, with all your, with all your

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information, like, like, uh, all your
experience, I should say, and, and

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the value that you have brought to
every position that you've been in.

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Like you've had a pretty wide breadth
of, you know, from teaching to, you

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know, hardware, software development
to, uh, running companies and so forth.

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When MAP the Gap idea came
to you and your colleagues.

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Did it, was it, was it your idea
or was it just a bunch of people

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sitting around at a conference
being like, we, we need to do this.

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Like this is something that's gonna,
like how did the idea come to be in 2019?

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Oh, that's a great question.

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I think really it was a
group, it was a group effort.

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Yeah.

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I'm not gonna claim any sort of, uh,
ownership or, or anything like that.

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Uh, there was several of us who were part
of the leadership of the XPRIZE team.

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Um, I had also been running, uh.

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An annual event on called,
uh, the Map the Gap Symposium.

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Mm-hmm.

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That had been started in 2016.

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Uh, that was an affiliation
with Jeb Co. Right.

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And uh, really I think there
was just a general momentum of

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wanting to keep this spirit alive.

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Yeah.

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But also wanting to formalize
the symposium a little bit.

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So I'd say some of my close
colleagues of the leadership from

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the XPRIZE team and myself, we said,
what's the best way to do that?

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Really the best way to do that
is forming a legitimate company.

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Yeah.

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A notfor profit.

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Yeah.

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Uh, where the rules are very clear
in terms of any work that we do

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is in the science domain, right.

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Any data we collect is publicly available.

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Um, and then have access to this
network of people all around the world.

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Yeah.

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Who can come in, come out, they can
participate when they can or not.

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And that's the beauty of a
volunteer based organization.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it's not to say it'll
always be volunteer based

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because we are trying to raise.

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Some real capital, right?

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So we can grow the company, uh,
to do more of what we've been

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doing for the last six years.

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And yeah, and this is, this is
always, that interests me 'cause

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I've, I've known a lot of nonprofits
that have grown out of symposiums.

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So, so first symposium was in Mount
the Gap symposium was in 2016.

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And then, and by 2019 you're like,
let's formalize this a little bit more.

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Let's put a company around it, a
nonprofit organization around it.

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When you ran the first, when you
guys ran the first symposium.

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Uh, to 2019.

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What made it so that that was
like, this is what we need to do?

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Was it just, was it increasing in
membership and increasing in, in

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participation from other people?

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Was it other people being like, Hey, we
need to do, like, was was the sort of the

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final, um, resolution of the symposium
being like, we need to do something more.

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We need to do more things, or we
need to really formalize this.

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What made that.

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Come that idea come about where it's
like, we need to formalize this and

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put it under a structure, like a
nonprofit organization like Math Gaps.

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Right?

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Well, like many things in life, the
simplest answer is usually the best one.

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And in this case, it was a
very practical consideration.

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Okay.

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Which was there were expenses incurred.

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That required a business.

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Gotcha.

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That makes sense.

235
00:11:03,540 --> 00:11:05,400
Required a credit card.

236
00:11:05,790 --> 00:11:09,810
Uh, but it, that was, I mean, we
probably could have continued on, right?

237
00:11:09,870 --> 00:11:14,040
But another thing happened between
2016 and 2019 as well, which was

238
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,990
the success of the symposium grew
and was attracting more people.

239
00:11:19,319 --> 00:11:24,510
Uh, so we, we needed to, to be
able to put on a bigger event with.

240
00:11:25,425 --> 00:11:30,944
More things and food and beverage
and activities and attract speakers.

241
00:11:31,214 --> 00:11:33,675
And so all of that of
course requires capital.

242
00:11:33,885 --> 00:11:39,344
And it rent from, I think in 2016
we had maybe 50 or 60 people attend.

243
00:11:39,344 --> 00:11:42,344
And by 2019 we were having 150 people.

244
00:11:42,344 --> 00:11:42,346
Wow.

245
00:11:42,750 --> 00:11:46,530
Uh, come to the events and then
when we went through the COVID era,

246
00:11:46,709 --> 00:11:48,810
we had over 600 people tuning in.

247
00:11:48,900 --> 00:11:50,880
'cause it was all live streamed Of course.

248
00:11:50,969 --> 00:11:53,160
And so the event itself grew Yeah.

249
00:11:53,490 --> 00:11:56,219
And just warranted practical
considerations for sure.

250
00:11:56,219 --> 00:11:59,550
Like having a proper, a dedicated
website, having a credit card to

251
00:11:59,550 --> 00:12:03,990
pay for things, having the ability
to sign contracts, but it was also

252
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:06,599
attracting a whole new audience.

253
00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:06,870
Mm-hmm.

254
00:12:07,490 --> 00:12:10,460
Back in 2016, it was a very
small group of people who were

255
00:12:10,460 --> 00:12:11,840
very familiar with each other.

256
00:12:12,140 --> 00:12:16,460
By 2019, our percentage of people
who were attending a symposium

257
00:12:16,460 --> 00:12:18,950
for the first time was at 80%.

258
00:12:19,250 --> 00:12:23,600
So we recognized that we were
attracting new people to the symposium

259
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,490
year over year, which was great.

260
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:25,580
Yeah.

261
00:12:25,610 --> 00:12:29,465
Because they were getting
exposed to ocean floor mapping.

262
00:12:29,485 --> 00:12:29,905
Mm-hmm.

263
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:34,400
Which is a relatively
unknown, I would say.

264
00:12:35,595 --> 00:12:38,235
It's not a technology, it's a
relatively unknown activity.

265
00:12:38,235 --> 00:12:38,295
Yeah.

266
00:12:38,595 --> 00:12:41,205
Many people think that
the oceans have been met.

267
00:12:41,235 --> 00:12:41,325
Yeah.

268
00:12:41,805 --> 00:12:46,335
And that's one of our largest barriers
that my colleagues and I in this community

269
00:12:46,335 --> 00:12:50,415
have is because they see Google Earth
or they see the base map from Esri.

270
00:12:50,475 --> 00:12:50,535
Yeah.

271
00:12:50,535 --> 00:12:51,105
Or wherever.

272
00:12:51,435 --> 00:12:53,835
Or they see the pictures in
National Geographic and they think,

273
00:12:54,105 --> 00:12:55,995
oh, but it's already been done.

274
00:12:55,995 --> 00:12:56,085
Mm-hmm.

275
00:12:57,075 --> 00:12:59,175
We say, well, not really.

276
00:13:02,385 --> 00:13:02,655
Yeah.

277
00:13:02,655 --> 00:13:04,515
And it's, it's as, it's very interesting.

278
00:13:04,515 --> 00:13:08,265
It's like these, these assumptions that
we think that have been done because

279
00:13:08,265 --> 00:13:09,525
Yeah, it makes sense to do them.

280
00:13:09,525 --> 00:13:12,645
So people are thinking, of course we have,
we've, we've mapped them and we know.

281
00:13:13,355 --> 00:13:16,055
Probably what we need to know
about, about the deep, which we'll

282
00:13:16,055 --> 00:13:19,175
get into in just a sec, because we
know that, that that's not true.

283
00:13:19,595 --> 00:13:23,735
The, uh, you mentioned the increase of
people that are coming and the makeup of

284
00:13:23,735 --> 00:13:30,005
people, you know, mapping the gaps and,
and looking at ocean floor exploration.

285
00:13:30,005 --> 00:13:35,375
Looking at, at the science that can
happen, the discoveries that can happen,

286
00:13:35,645 --> 00:13:37,895
um, the opportunities that are available.

287
00:13:38,820 --> 00:13:43,470
Who are the, like what professional
backgrounds are the people who, who

288
00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:47,760
normally attend these symposiums and
make up sort of the membership or the

289
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,462
people within, within Maps the gaps Now.

290
00:13:51,390 --> 00:13:51,510
Mm-hmm.

291
00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:52,770
That's a great question.

292
00:13:54,420 --> 00:13:57,569
Um, well, it, it's evolved.

293
00:13:57,569 --> 00:13:57,660
Mm-hmm.

294
00:13:57,900 --> 00:13:58,439
Over time.

295
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:03,180
So I would say historically or
traditionally, the people who are involved

296
00:14:03,180 --> 00:14:08,550
in any sort of ocean floor exploration
and mapping fall into scientific and go.

297
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:12,590
Camps, people who are doing
this for hydrographic purposes.

298
00:14:12,590 --> 00:14:12,680
Mm-hmm.

299
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,570
Which is nautical charting, safety of
navigation, and, um, uh, protection

300
00:14:17,570 --> 00:14:18,860
of people and vessels at sea.

301
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:19,070
Mm-hmm.

302
00:14:19,730 --> 00:14:24,891
Uh, then there's also exploration, uh,
sorry, like mineral exploration or.

303
00:14:25,564 --> 00:14:27,155
Oil and gas exploration.

304
00:14:27,185 --> 00:14:27,275
Mm-hmm.

305
00:14:27,515 --> 00:14:31,985
Or root survey for, uh, where
to lay cables and pipelines.

306
00:14:31,985 --> 00:14:31,986
Yep.

307
00:14:31,991 --> 00:14:32,099
Right?

308
00:14:32,224 --> 00:14:32,314
Yep.

309
00:14:32,314 --> 00:14:33,694
You need to know what
the bottom looks like.

310
00:14:34,025 --> 00:14:38,224
There's a lot of work around benthic
habitat and understanding the nature

311
00:14:38,224 --> 00:14:42,844
of the sea floor, so we know what
biology and marine life, uh, lives

312
00:14:42,844 --> 00:14:45,214
there and, and calls that their home.

313
00:14:45,724 --> 00:14:47,645
Um, and then there's also a lot of.

314
00:14:48,015 --> 00:14:50,865
Complimentary science that goes
along with that better understanding.

315
00:14:50,865 --> 00:14:56,655
Tsunami modeling, understanding seismic
and plate tectonics, and all of these

316
00:14:56,655 --> 00:15:01,575
influences that affect the oceans and
ultimately earth, um, come from this

317
00:15:01,575 --> 00:15:03,225
foundational data set of bathymetry.

318
00:15:03,585 --> 00:15:06,315
So the professionals who are involved are.

319
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:11,610
Survey engineers, they're government
officials or their graphers or baths.

320
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:12,390
Mm-hmm.

321
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,660
Um, they're scientists,
they're oceanographers.

322
00:15:15,660 --> 00:15:20,010
It's a really wide range of
people who, um, get involved.

323
00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:25,530
And in the symposium we also
started attracting a new audience

324
00:15:26,580 --> 00:15:29,195
member, which was young people who.

325
00:15:29,939 --> 00:15:32,760
Maybe had a background like yours in GIS.

326
00:15:32,819 --> 00:15:37,410
Yeah, and were really interested
because two other things happened in

327
00:15:37,410 --> 00:15:43,020
the late teens of, uh, as it relates to
the ocean, but probably three things.

328
00:15:43,230 --> 00:15:49,865
One was the general population of earth
like society became critically aware that.

329
00:15:50,535 --> 00:15:53,234
Uh, the oceans are perhaps in harm.

330
00:15:53,234 --> 00:15:53,324
Mm-hmm.

331
00:15:53,714 --> 00:15:56,745
And we need to do a better job
of protecting them writ large.

332
00:15:57,314 --> 00:15:57,495
Yeah.

333
00:15:57,495 --> 00:16:01,185
And so awareness of the ocean
environment, things like the garbage

334
00:16:01,185 --> 00:16:05,925
patch and pollution and warming
temperatures, were all becoming

335
00:16:05,925 --> 00:16:07,665
more predominant in the news media.

336
00:16:07,665 --> 00:16:07,755
Mm-hmm.

337
00:16:07,995 --> 00:16:09,405
And becoming on people's minds.

338
00:16:10,305 --> 00:16:14,895
Um, the Jeb Co. Jeb Co, which is the
general IC metric chart of the oceans.

339
00:16:15,145 --> 00:16:18,655
Partnered with the NIP on
Foundation to create a project

340
00:16:18,655 --> 00:16:21,084
called the Seabed 2030 Project.

341
00:16:21,145 --> 00:16:25,104
So this is supported by Jeb Co.
And the NIP on Foundation and

342
00:16:25,165 --> 00:16:30,385
the Seabed 2030 project has been
phenomenal in raising awareness about

343
00:16:30,385 --> 00:16:31,795
the need for ocean floor mapping.

344
00:16:31,824 --> 00:16:31,944
Yep.

345
00:16:32,094 --> 00:16:34,540
And just how little of it has been done.

346
00:16:34,839 --> 00:16:38,260
So all of that happened
after 2016, and then the UN.

347
00:16:38,770 --> 00:16:43,480
Has a decade of ocean science, which is
all around, you know, 10 years all around

348
00:16:43,750 --> 00:16:48,010
ocean science and ocean technology and,
and the needs of our, of our own planet.

349
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:52,780
So I think all of those things culminated
into attracting a new audience for

350
00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:56,650
groups like map the Gaps and the
symposium, but not just map the gaps.

351
00:16:56,650 --> 00:17:00,275
It's just, it's all over, uh, young
people who want to be involved.

352
00:17:00,490 --> 00:17:05,260
They want to contribute, they want to put
their energy into this, learn more so they

353
00:17:05,260 --> 00:17:08,410
can do more and take responsibility and.

354
00:17:08,849 --> 00:17:11,040
Action for the health of our own planet.

355
00:17:11,069 --> 00:17:11,310
Mm-hmm.

356
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:13,440
And that's, and that's interesting.

357
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:19,410
So as the, the people changed and
increased, did the mission for Map

358
00:17:19,410 --> 00:17:23,700
the Gaps change, like as it was
formed in 2019 officially, you know,

359
00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:26,579
you probably had like an idea in the
symposium and there's probably different

360
00:17:26,579 --> 00:17:31,200
themes throughout the, for each
symposium, what was like the initial.

361
00:17:31,935 --> 00:17:35,745
Mission of Maps, the GA map, the
gaps when the symposium started.

362
00:17:35,745 --> 00:17:40,064
And how did, did it, did it change
when you actually created the entity

363
00:17:40,064 --> 00:17:41,834
as we know it now, as map the gaps?

364
00:17:43,155 --> 00:17:44,264
Uh, that's a great question.

365
00:17:44,264 --> 00:17:47,235
The initial mission was a,
to put on the symposium.

366
00:17:47,235 --> 00:17:47,354
Yeah.

367
00:17:47,475 --> 00:17:53,354
Every year, another part of the mission
was to develop partners and help build

368
00:17:53,354 --> 00:17:58,725
this network of companies, organizations,
and individuals who wanted to support.

369
00:17:59,055 --> 00:18:03,075
Ocean floor mapping and exploration,
um, through helping map the gaps.

370
00:18:03,525 --> 00:18:05,600
And then a third part was
actually participating.

371
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,420
In and coordinating actual emissions.

372
00:18:09,450 --> 00:18:09,570
Hmm.

373
00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:16,020
And so this is people going out on boats
or remotely processing data, uh, that are

374
00:18:16,020 --> 00:18:18,390
in support of bathymetry data collection.

375
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:18,600
Hmm.

376
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:21,660
And so we did all three of
those things and continue to

377
00:18:21,660 --> 00:18:22,920
do all three of those things.

378
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,995
I would say the mission expanded
over the last five years,

379
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:28,710
and this is where we are now.

380
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:33,480
We're at this point where we
realize that there's really.

381
00:18:34,455 --> 00:18:37,935
Maybe none, but certainly not
very many organizations that

382
00:18:37,935 --> 00:18:43,629
are advocating or actively doing
systematic ocean floor exploration.

383
00:18:43,629 --> 00:18:43,790
Right.

384
00:18:44,655 --> 00:18:46,395
So certainly Seabed 2030.

385
00:18:46,395 --> 00:18:47,715
Once again, phenomenal.

386
00:18:48,135 --> 00:18:48,195
Yeah.

387
00:18:48,285 --> 00:18:53,685
Uh, growth and advocacy for the need and
has also done a great job at aggregating

388
00:18:54,015 --> 00:18:58,905
available data sets and in many cases,
uh, supporting or partnering with other

389
00:18:58,905 --> 00:19:00,435
organizations who are collecting data.

390
00:19:00,435 --> 00:19:00,525
Mm-hmm.

391
00:19:00,765 --> 00:19:05,300
That then contribute that to this
public database, uh, accessed

392
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,965
via Seabed 2030 map the gaps.

393
00:19:07,965 --> 00:19:10,005
Wants to take a, a bit of a step further.

394
00:19:10,155 --> 00:19:13,215
We want to actually organize and do.

395
00:19:13,525 --> 00:19:15,445
Systematic ocean floor exploration.

396
00:19:15,625 --> 00:19:15,835
Hmm.

397
00:19:16,315 --> 00:19:19,975
And so there's a program that we're
looking to develop now, and that's part of

398
00:19:20,215 --> 00:19:25,825
what we're talking about at the conference
this fall in October, is how do we connect

399
00:19:26,545 --> 00:19:29,605
individuals perhaps with money Yeah.

400
00:19:29,965 --> 00:19:34,915
Or organizations to participate in ocean
floor exploration in some capacity.

401
00:19:35,095 --> 00:19:39,445
And part of our new, part of our
new mantra, I guess, is that who can

402
00:19:39,445 --> 00:19:41,425
participate in ocean floor exploration?

403
00:19:41,985 --> 00:19:42,735
Anyone can.

404
00:19:42,855 --> 00:19:43,155
Right?

405
00:19:43,155 --> 00:19:46,514
You don't have to be an
oceanographer, you don't have to

406
00:19:46,514 --> 00:19:48,855
be a super wealthy individual.

407
00:19:48,855 --> 00:19:50,264
You don't have to have a boat.

408
00:19:50,445 --> 00:19:53,475
You don't have to be belong
to a hydrographic office in a

409
00:19:53,475 --> 00:19:55,455
company or in a, in a country.

410
00:19:55,905 --> 00:19:58,635
Anyone can participate in
Ocean four exploration.

411
00:19:58,695 --> 00:19:58,784
Yeah.

412
00:19:58,784 --> 00:20:00,675
And there's various ways
that they can do that.

413
00:20:01,754 --> 00:20:02,685
And that's interesting.

414
00:20:03,135 --> 00:20:05,625
You know, in the name
itself, map the gaps.

415
00:20:05,625 --> 00:20:09,135
We're looking at mapping the
deep sea, but let's be honest.

416
00:20:10,004 --> 00:20:11,774
The gaps are pretty big right now.

417
00:20:11,955 --> 00:20:15,254
We're not talking about small
gaps like small swaths of, of

418
00:20:15,254 --> 00:20:16,695
areas that have not been mapped.

419
00:20:16,725 --> 00:20:22,034
There's a lot of area in the deep
sea that has not been mapped,

420
00:20:23,355 --> 00:20:24,885
so it's a large undertaking.

421
00:20:25,455 --> 00:20:29,235
How do you, where do you begin?

422
00:20:29,595 --> 00:20:33,825
With this mission of, of bringing people
in and, and like, I guess when the

423
00:20:33,825 --> 00:20:37,035
people come in, what are, what are their
thoughts when they initially come in?

424
00:20:37,035 --> 00:20:41,355
Some of these professionals that you
have on Engineers, Beres, you know,

425
00:20:41,355 --> 00:20:44,955
GIS, you know, young gi s people,
people who have been doing GIS for a

426
00:20:44,955 --> 00:20:50,415
long time, like yourself and like, what
is the idea around this to like, where

427
00:20:50,415 --> 00:20:52,305
do we begin and how do we proceed?

428
00:20:52,845 --> 00:20:56,055
Obviously the money you mentioned like
the initial funding, but after like

429
00:20:56,055 --> 00:20:57,825
where do we begin in terms of mapping?

430
00:20:58,709 --> 00:20:59,100
Right.

431
00:20:59,490 --> 00:21:00,540
Well, let's talk about the name.

432
00:21:00,659 --> 00:21:00,899
Yeah.

433
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:08,459
Because the name means more than just
the activity of mapping the ocean floor.

434
00:21:08,790 --> 00:21:10,445
When we came up with
the name, map, the gaps.

435
00:21:11,115 --> 00:21:13,905
And originally it started, I
didn't, I didn't invent the term

436
00:21:13,905 --> 00:21:16,095
map the gaps that started years ago.

437
00:21:16,095 --> 00:21:16,185
Mm-hmm.

438
00:21:16,425 --> 00:21:18,735
Through people in the Jeb Co
community to talk about this

439
00:21:18,735 --> 00:21:20,085
concept of mapping the gaps.

440
00:21:20,295 --> 00:21:24,195
But when we decided to name the company
Map the gaps, it was because it was

441
00:21:24,195 --> 00:21:26,805
more than just mapping the ocean.

442
00:21:27,045 --> 00:21:31,500
It was also about mapping those gaps
or connecting those gaps between.

443
00:21:31,870 --> 00:21:32,379
People.

444
00:21:32,379 --> 00:21:35,110
Mm. And that is one of
the things that's missing.

445
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:40,870
If you go back historically at who has
done this type of work, it was graphers.

446
00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:43,000
It was militaries and nas.

447
00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:46,449
It was science or mineral
exploration and oil and gas.

448
00:21:46,810 --> 00:21:51,250
It was a relatively small, and even
take it a step further, it was mostly.

449
00:21:51,885 --> 00:21:52,785
White Western.

450
00:21:52,815 --> 00:21:52,905
Yeah.

451
00:21:52,965 --> 00:21:53,895
Wealthy countries Yes.

452
00:21:53,925 --> 00:21:55,125
Or individuals who are doing it.

453
00:21:55,125 --> 00:21:55,275
Yeah.

454
00:21:55,365 --> 00:21:58,600
So we, it's a, the earth
is a big, it's a big place.

455
00:21:58,600 --> 00:21:58,920
Mm-hmm.

456
00:21:59,005 --> 00:22:03,195
And the oceans are big and they touch
borders of countries that do not have

457
00:22:03,195 --> 00:22:05,295
the resources that we may have mm-hmm.

458
00:22:05,595 --> 00:22:07,125
In Canada and North America and others.

459
00:22:07,455 --> 00:22:09,705
So how do we get those people involved?

460
00:22:09,705 --> 00:22:14,175
And that was part of the original mission
of MAP the Gaps, was connecting other

461
00:22:14,175 --> 00:22:16,005
people who may not have the resources.

462
00:22:16,010 --> 00:22:16,040
Mm-hmm.

463
00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:17,535
So that they can also participate.

464
00:22:18,135 --> 00:22:19,335
In this grand endeavor.

465
00:22:20,175 --> 00:22:25,845
So now when people come to us and they
say, Hey, I'm a GIS person and I want

466
00:22:25,845 --> 00:22:29,325
to get involved, well, there was just
a fantastic post on LinkedIn the other

467
00:22:29,325 --> 00:22:31,245
day by Natalie Gilson that talks about.

468
00:22:31,710 --> 00:22:35,790
Um, I'm participating in something,
yet I'm behind the screen.

469
00:22:35,790 --> 00:22:38,730
I'm on my laptop or
where my keyboard Right.

470
00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:43,620
And yet I still, I still wanna be
part of it and I am part of it, but

471
00:22:43,620 --> 00:22:47,370
I don't feel like I'm part of it
enough, and that's a great sentiment.

472
00:22:47,370 --> 00:22:47,790
So true.

473
00:22:47,850 --> 00:22:50,910
Uh, you know, I haven't, I haven't
been on a survey vessel, survey

474
00:22:50,970 --> 00:22:53,670
myself for a couple of decades now.

475
00:22:53,850 --> 00:22:54,090
Really?

476
00:22:54,090 --> 00:22:54,360
So true.

477
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:54,600
We do.

478
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,400
You know, and yet I'm still involved.

479
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:56,460
Yeah.

480
00:22:56,460 --> 00:22:59,370
And so when people come to
us, in some cases, it's.

481
00:22:59,635 --> 00:23:00,504
I want to get out there.

482
00:23:00,504 --> 00:23:01,524
I wanna be on a boat.

483
00:23:01,524 --> 00:23:03,115
I want to collect data
and know what it's like.

484
00:23:03,115 --> 00:23:04,105
And that's, and that's great.

485
00:23:04,105 --> 00:23:07,044
We'll try to find opportunities
and connect people so they can

486
00:23:07,225 --> 00:23:11,695
have that, even if it's part-time,
even if it's one-off and they, they

487
00:23:11,695 --> 00:23:13,405
may love it or they may hate it.

488
00:23:13,435 --> 00:23:13,524
Mm-hmm.

489
00:23:13,764 --> 00:23:14,185
And that's okay.

490
00:23:14,365 --> 00:23:16,645
They're still getting
involved for other people.

491
00:23:17,310 --> 00:23:21,180
It's supporting, not just map the gaps,
it's supporting other organizations.

492
00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:26,430
So maybe we refer them to support
CED 2030 or, or academic, or we get

493
00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:29,310
help get them into programs so they
can get some additional training.

494
00:23:29,310 --> 00:23:29,460
Yeah.

495
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,070
Um, that's, that's certainly another way.

496
00:23:32,190 --> 00:23:35,100
And then in many cases we have people
who support map the gaps directly

497
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:38,280
through supporting our social media,
helping build the website, right.

498
00:23:38,340 --> 00:23:40,950
Doing fundraising, connecting and growing.

499
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:46,150
The partner community, um, helping with
the symposium, that's always, yeah,

500
00:23:46,150 --> 00:23:51,100
of course that people can get involved
and support it, but it is the task

501
00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:53,890
of mapping our oceans is monumental.

502
00:23:54,130 --> 00:23:57,820
And it could be multi-decade old
even if we were to start tomorrow.

503
00:23:58,510 --> 00:24:04,960
Um, and it's also expensive, however,
relative to other things that humans

504
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,730
have done, it's not that much.

505
00:24:06,790 --> 00:24:07,060
Right?

506
00:24:07,660 --> 00:24:07,900
Yeah.

507
00:24:07,905 --> 00:24:08,115
So.

508
00:24:08,865 --> 00:24:12,045
We fund and do space exploration.

509
00:24:12,045 --> 00:24:12,135
Mm-hmm.

510
00:24:12,375 --> 00:24:17,055
And have for many decades now it's time
to turn or expand some of that energy

511
00:24:17,055 --> 00:24:19,155
and those resources onto planet Earth.

512
00:24:19,605 --> 00:24:22,245
And I don't think we can
just rely on governments.

513
00:24:22,305 --> 00:24:23,955
And there there's two reasons for that.

514
00:24:23,955 --> 00:24:26,955
One, governments aren't spending
enough money or, you know, they're

515
00:24:26,955 --> 00:24:28,275
not investing in this area.

516
00:24:28,275 --> 00:24:28,365
Mm-hmm.

517
00:24:28,635 --> 00:24:33,375
But even if they did, they would only
do it within their national boundary.

518
00:24:33,450 --> 00:24:33,540
True.

519
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:33,960
Right.

520
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,630
They're inclusive economics, so
it's very difficult otherwise.

521
00:24:36,690 --> 00:24:36,930
Yeah.

522
00:24:37,470 --> 00:24:40,080
A lot of the ocean is
in international waters.

523
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:40,170
Mm-hmm.

524
00:24:41,340 --> 00:24:42,090
The deep blue.

525
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:44,100
And so how do we fund that?

526
00:24:44,250 --> 00:24:45,840
How do we get people out there?

527
00:24:46,110 --> 00:24:48,360
And it is, it's very important to do it.

528
00:24:48,365 --> 00:24:48,465
Mm-hmm.

529
00:24:49,020 --> 00:24:49,650
It's never been done.

530
00:24:51,074 --> 00:24:52,064
No, and it's never been done.

531
00:24:52,185 --> 00:24:55,905
Uh, it, what's, what's interesting too
is I've, we've, you know, we've seen the

532
00:24:55,905 --> 00:25:00,284
debates, you know, is it easier to work
in space or, or why explore space when we

533
00:25:00,284 --> 00:25:04,695
haven't even really explored the ocean to
the depths of that we need to, you know?

534
00:25:04,695 --> 00:25:08,774
And, um, the, the, the, the
focus should be on the ocean.

535
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:10,840
Obviously we are biased.

536
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:11,890
We're on this podcast.

537
00:25:11,890 --> 00:25:13,480
It's how to protect the ocean.

538
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,270
So we're, we're definitely biased,
but there's a, there, there is

539
00:25:16,270 --> 00:25:20,110
an inherent truth in we need to
protect what's on this planet.

540
00:25:20,140 --> 00:25:22,090
You know, we know we're, we're
doing damage to the planet.

541
00:25:22,090 --> 00:25:24,700
We don't even know the severity yet.

542
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:29,270
Of total damage that we've, we've
done or total dis like influence

543
00:25:29,270 --> 00:25:30,890
around the ocean that we've done.

544
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,480
'cause we don't know much
about the deep 'cause.

545
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,620
We haven't even mapped some of the basics
of, of, of some of the, the deep areas

546
00:25:36,620 --> 00:25:39,140
that we, that we want to find out about.

547
00:25:39,470 --> 00:25:43,700
Um, I feel as though, uh, and, and
I'd love to ask you, do you find that.

548
00:25:44,685 --> 00:25:50,295
Governments are quick to explore more
when there's an opportunity to benefit

549
00:25:50,295 --> 00:25:56,565
from it in either natural resource
extraction or some sort of, you know,

550
00:25:56,565 --> 00:26:00,735
whether it's, it's a, uh, renewable
energy, like tidal energy or looking at.

551
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:01,910
Deep sea mining.

552
00:26:01,910 --> 00:26:05,630
We're quicker to explore that than
just to explore for the sake of

553
00:26:05,630 --> 00:26:10,760
knowing where, you know, what is down
there and, and what we have and, and

554
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,970
the, just the depths and, and the
bathymetry and the, and the landscape

555
00:26:13,970 --> 00:26:15,500
of it all, or the seascape of it all.

556
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,720
Do you find that there is more of a, of
a push when there's something to gain

557
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,350
for these governments or, uh, do you
find, do you, do you think otherwise?

558
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:26,220
It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts.

559
00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:29,130
'cause you've, you've been around
a lot of different types of like,

560
00:26:29,130 --> 00:26:33,150
private and, and public entities,
uh, and talking about this.

561
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:40,170
Well, I think like anything in life,
people are motivated or organizations

562
00:26:40,170 --> 00:26:42,450
are motivated by different factors.

563
00:26:42,450 --> 00:26:42,540
Mm-hmm.

564
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:45,930
So some of those could
be economic factors.

565
00:26:45,930 --> 00:26:46,170
Mm-hmm.

566
00:26:46,325 --> 00:26:47,185
And some could be.

567
00:26:47,925 --> 00:26:52,905
Um, scientific or conservation,
some could be exploitative.

568
00:26:52,995 --> 00:26:53,175
Yep.

569
00:26:53,445 --> 00:26:55,815
And so it, it really runs the gamut.

570
00:26:55,845 --> 00:26:55,935
Mm-hmm.

571
00:26:56,175 --> 00:26:59,385
And I don't think national
governments are any different.

572
00:26:59,445 --> 00:26:59,655
Right.

573
00:26:59,985 --> 00:27:03,015
Uh, even at the beginning of my
career when I was with the Canadian

574
00:27:03,015 --> 00:27:07,186
Hydrographic Service, we had partnered
with Clearwater Fisheries mm-hmm.

575
00:27:07,665 --> 00:27:07,995
Mm-hmm.

576
00:27:08,235 --> 00:27:14,025
Berg to better understand benthic
habitat by doing sea floor mapping.

577
00:27:14,025 --> 00:27:14,085
Yeah.

578
00:27:14,985 --> 00:27:15,255
Right.

579
00:27:15,255 --> 00:27:19,605
And at that time, areas like
Browns Bank and Georgia's Bank and

580
00:27:19,605 --> 00:27:22,545
German bank off the coast of Nova
Scotia, they'd never been mapped.

581
00:27:22,545 --> 00:27:27,165
It was very poorly understood in terms of
what the sea floor morphology looked like.

582
00:27:27,195 --> 00:27:27,405
Right.

583
00:27:27,555 --> 00:27:31,605
And yet the fishing community was
well aware that there were some areas

584
00:27:31,605 --> 00:27:33,345
that high had higher yields Yeah.

585
00:27:33,585 --> 00:27:35,565
Than others for their catch.

586
00:27:35,895 --> 00:27:39,285
And so part of that partnership
was definitely economic.

587
00:27:39,285 --> 00:27:39,495
Yeah.

588
00:27:39,835 --> 00:27:41,605
Um, but it was also scientific.

589
00:27:41,635 --> 00:27:41,725
Mm-hmm.

590
00:27:41,965 --> 00:27:45,865
So it was understanding, collecting
the science to help better

591
00:27:45,865 --> 00:27:47,875
influence the economic side.

592
00:27:48,205 --> 00:27:54,445
And in the end, fishing presumably
became more efficient, but also safer.

593
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,800
In a weird sort of way because
then they weren't fishing in areas

594
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,629
where there were sensitive habitat.

595
00:28:00,635 --> 00:28:01,379
Right, right.

596
00:28:01,379 --> 00:28:03,870
Because they were at least
aware of where the habitat was.

597
00:28:03,930 --> 00:28:05,640
And before that it was a crap shoot.

598
00:28:05,790 --> 00:28:07,442
Yeah, for sure, for sure.

599
00:28:07,515 --> 00:28:11,430
I, I think that's just one example
of a private partner, private public

600
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:16,590
partnership that had really great
benefits for the Canadian government

601
00:28:16,590 --> 00:28:20,460
in terms of collecting all this
amazing data that better informed.

602
00:28:20,895 --> 00:28:23,085
Um, the, the public mm-hmm.

603
00:28:23,325 --> 00:28:26,025
And themselves, scientists on
what was there, but it also helped

604
00:28:26,265 --> 00:28:27,855
efficient community as well.

605
00:28:28,305 --> 00:28:31,545
And so I think another,
so that's one example.

606
00:28:31,665 --> 00:28:36,225
I think another example is the UN
Convention on the Law of the Sea.

607
00:28:36,405 --> 00:28:39,855
So countries being able to better
delineate their boundaries based on

608
00:28:40,935 --> 00:28:43,035
the foot of the continental shelf.

609
00:28:43,305 --> 00:28:46,905
And you know, I mean there's all kinds of
variables that go into that, of course.

610
00:28:46,905 --> 00:28:49,606
And I'm not an expert at, at
all on it, but that was one.

611
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,389
Motivation and impetus
for national governments.

612
00:28:53,389 --> 00:28:53,480
Mm-hmm.

613
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,850
To rally around the concept
of better understanding.

614
00:28:56,610 --> 00:29:02,070
Their sea floor adjacent to their
coastline going out however many miles

615
00:29:02,220 --> 00:29:07,679
was necessary so that they could make a
claim that would ultimately help define

616
00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:09,629
and protect their national sovereignty.

617
00:29:09,780 --> 00:29:11,250
In terms of a boundary.

618
00:29:11,310 --> 00:29:11,639
Yeah.

619
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,270
Right?

620
00:29:12,270 --> 00:29:12,510
Yeah.

621
00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:18,120
Um, but also all that data was collected,
you know, phenomenal value and for.

622
00:29:18,615 --> 00:29:22,245
Uh, kind of follow on or
downstream science that could be

623
00:29:22,245 --> 00:29:23,685
done as a result of that data.

624
00:29:23,805 --> 00:29:29,595
And that's what we keep coming back to
with bathymetry or this ocean floor data.

625
00:29:29,805 --> 00:29:32,235
Really, it's a foundational data set.

626
00:29:32,235 --> 00:29:32,895
It's like.

627
00:29:33,419 --> 00:29:34,980
If we don't have that, yeah.

628
00:29:35,010 --> 00:29:37,679
Then how can we possibly
do everything else?

629
00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:37,919
For sure.

630
00:29:38,010 --> 00:29:41,429
And so, I mean, you know, and
that's, that's one of the largest

631
00:29:41,429 --> 00:29:43,889
justifications for collecting
it in the first place, right?

632
00:29:43,949 --> 00:29:47,370
Is that there's so much complimentary
and additional work that can

633
00:29:47,370 --> 00:29:51,209
happen as a result of just starting
with this foundational data set.

634
00:29:52,050 --> 00:29:55,260
To get data, you have to go out
and map and map these, these areas.

635
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:57,750
Uh, and it, and it becomes that.

636
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:59,010
It becomes a challenge in itself.

637
00:29:59,010 --> 00:30:01,590
It can be, it can be, uh, expensive.

638
00:30:01,590 --> 00:30:07,410
It's to, to know where to start, know
where to be, like where to go, how is map

639
00:30:07,410 --> 00:30:14,250
the gaps going to define that of priority
areas of where to, uh, of where to map

640
00:30:14,250 --> 00:30:18,540
first or will that be defined by the
person who's willing, or the company who's

641
00:30:18,540 --> 00:30:20,130
willing to fund it and just be like, Hey.

642
00:30:20,550 --> 00:30:22,770
I wanna know more about
this, this specific area.

643
00:30:22,770 --> 00:30:26,460
How are we going to prioritize
this at Map the gaps?

644
00:30:28,020 --> 00:30:30,000
Well, it's a great question.

645
00:30:31,710 --> 00:30:35,760
Map the gaps is not going to
arbitrarily make priority areas, right?

646
00:30:36,270 --> 00:30:36,900
That's for sure.

647
00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:37,140
Right.

648
00:30:37,710 --> 00:30:42,330
But I do think that we're looking
at exploring some new ways to

649
00:30:42,330 --> 00:30:45,570
identify priorities, and some of
that could be through gamifying.

650
00:30:46,335 --> 00:30:47,175
How it's done.

651
00:30:47,715 --> 00:30:52,605
So imagine a landscape where you
have small little hexagons and

652
00:30:52,605 --> 00:30:56,535
some individual gets to choose
which hexagon they wanna map.

653
00:30:57,045 --> 00:30:57,255
Right.

654
00:30:57,255 --> 00:30:59,025
Or they, they would like to see mapped.

655
00:30:59,055 --> 00:30:59,145
Mm-hmm.

656
00:30:59,415 --> 00:31:03,465
And maybe they're picking it because
there might be a plane crash in there.

657
00:31:03,915 --> 00:31:03,975
Yeah.

658
00:31:03,975 --> 00:31:07,545
Or a shipwreck or some
other sunken treasure or.

659
00:31:08,155 --> 00:31:12,355
Maybe there's some underwater canyon
or volcano, or maybe they just

660
00:31:12,355 --> 00:31:15,925
like that area because it's got
50 degrees south and 50 degrees.

661
00:31:15,925 --> 00:31:19,915
You know, there's some sort of other
interesting, uh, aspect to it for why

662
00:31:19,915 --> 00:31:25,014
they chose that particular spot on the
ocean that they want to sponsor and adopt.

663
00:31:25,645 --> 00:31:26,965
And now.

664
00:31:27,915 --> 00:31:29,865
That doesn't mean we're just
gonna turn around and send a

665
00:31:29,865 --> 00:31:30,915
ship out there and go map it.

666
00:31:30,915 --> 00:31:34,515
Obviously we need critical mass of
course, before any activities can be done.

667
00:31:34,725 --> 00:31:37,695
But I think priority setting could be
done through a variety of different ways.

668
00:31:37,695 --> 00:31:42,255
One is just through, um,
money or, or vote even, right?

669
00:31:42,255 --> 00:31:42,315
Yeah.

670
00:31:42,345 --> 00:31:43,665
Like where should we go first?

671
00:31:43,875 --> 00:31:47,655
Another could be through,
um, interesting areas.

672
00:31:47,835 --> 00:31:50,205
So perhaps there's, we know that.

673
00:31:50,459 --> 00:31:53,129
Through course resolution data,
let's say something that you

674
00:31:53,129 --> 00:31:54,360
might see on Google Earth.

675
00:31:54,810 --> 00:31:58,290
Uh, we know there's like
some sort of canyon something

676
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,149
there, or some sea mounts.

677
00:32:00,149 --> 00:32:01,320
We want to go explore that.

678
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,770
So maybe that'll attract more
interest, uh, that could help

679
00:32:04,770 --> 00:32:05,790
with the priority setting.

680
00:32:06,570 --> 00:32:06,959
I don't know.

681
00:32:07,020 --> 00:32:10,679
I think that, I think that's an
area to be developed in terms of

682
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,909
how do we set priorities for what
needs to be mapped when so much

683
00:32:14,909 --> 00:32:15,784
of it hasn't been done at all.

684
00:32:16,815 --> 00:32:17,355
Absolutely.

685
00:32:17,355 --> 00:32:18,945
That's, I think that's
a, it's a great question.

686
00:32:18,945 --> 00:32:22,335
I think I love the way to explore the,
the different ways of, of doing things.

687
00:32:22,365 --> 00:32:26,325
Gamifying a little bit through votes or
through where people want to go if they,

688
00:32:26,325 --> 00:32:28,455
if they're interested in a specific area.

689
00:32:28,725 --> 00:32:29,415
I think it's great.

690
00:32:29,415 --> 00:32:32,265
It's a great start anyway to
see where people are interested.

691
00:32:32,265 --> 00:32:33,975
Plus it democratizes the whole thing.

692
00:32:34,455 --> 00:32:37,485
I think that's a, uh, I love that
way that that'd be my preference.

693
00:32:37,514 --> 00:32:37,604
Yeah.

694
00:32:37,635 --> 00:32:40,665
Just to put it on the record
that, that, that's my preference.

695
00:32:40,665 --> 00:32:41,955
I think that's a great way of doing it.

696
00:32:42,225 --> 00:32:44,804
Um, and there's just so many
things that you can, you can do,

697
00:32:44,864 --> 00:32:46,995
uh, when, when going above that.

698
00:32:46,995 --> 00:32:49,125
And then of course, the other part
of about the gaps, which is an

699
00:32:49,125 --> 00:32:52,185
important part, which could help
with where to set, you know, where

700
00:32:52,185 --> 00:32:53,745
they go forth, is the symposium.

701
00:32:53,774 --> 00:32:58,395
And, and so there's a symposium, uh, every
year is that it's an annual symposium

702
00:32:58,395 --> 00:32:59,834
and there's gonna be one in 2025.

703
00:32:59,834 --> 00:33:01,304
Is that the, that's the idea, correct.

704
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,169
It, it's been almost, almost annual.

705
00:33:04,169 --> 00:33:06,750
We've, we've had a few, uh, gaps Okay.

706
00:33:06,750 --> 00:33:07,260
Here and there.

707
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:07,679
Yeah.

708
00:33:07,740 --> 00:33:10,260
But yes, there will be one in 2025.

709
00:33:10,260 --> 00:33:12,030
It's called Ocean Floor Explorer.

710
00:33:12,090 --> 00:33:12,360
Okay.

711
00:33:12,810 --> 00:33:14,760
And it's in Victoria, British Columbia.

712
00:33:14,790 --> 00:33:14,850
Yeah.

713
00:33:14,850 --> 00:33:16,560
October 26th to the 29th.

714
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:22,770
And it's being co-hosted, um, by
Coast, which is, uh, a, a, a Blue

715
00:33:22,770 --> 00:33:27,750
Tech Innovator and uh, um, group
here in Victoria, British Columbia.

716
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:28,284
That helps companies.

717
00:33:28,995 --> 00:33:33,165
Get off the ground, and it's also
forms a network of, uh, companies

718
00:33:33,165 --> 00:33:34,245
and individuals in the area.

719
00:33:34,245 --> 00:33:34,725
Interesting.

720
00:33:34,845 --> 00:33:35,715
Okay, cool.

721
00:33:35,985 --> 00:33:40,095
Now, when if, if people are interested
in this topic and they want to go to

722
00:33:40,095 --> 00:33:43,305
the symposium, what, what would, what
should they expect at the symposium?

723
00:33:44,834 --> 00:33:50,985
Uh, this year it falls into a few
broad categories, and one is, uh, the

724
00:33:50,985 --> 00:33:55,485
challenges and the value of doing ocean
floor exploration in the first place.

725
00:33:55,784 --> 00:33:59,804
And so that is, that is a good
question that people often ask is,

726
00:33:59,804 --> 00:34:04,814
well, why, yeah, why should we, and
there's two sides to that answer.

727
00:34:04,814 --> 00:34:05,685
One, one of it is.

728
00:34:06,085 --> 00:34:09,295
Very practical, scientific,
economic, uh, safety of life.

729
00:34:09,295 --> 00:34:12,895
You see all those, all those amazing
reasons for why we should do it.

730
00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:13,070
Mm-hmm.

731
00:34:13,465 --> 00:34:17,485
And then the other one is a little,
a little less quantitative and

732
00:34:17,485 --> 00:34:18,955
it's actually more qualitative.

733
00:34:18,955 --> 00:34:22,855
It's because it's earth
and we've never done it.

734
00:34:23,154 --> 00:34:26,630
And so that's the emotional
connection of we need to.

735
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:29,609
Explore our own planet.

736
00:34:29,790 --> 00:34:32,370
We need to understand it
in order to protect it.

737
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:34,440
And in order to do that,
we need to measure it.

738
00:34:34,650 --> 00:34:35,699
And none of that's been done.

739
00:34:35,940 --> 00:34:41,489
So part of, part of the first portion
of the conference is to talk about the

740
00:34:41,489 --> 00:34:46,230
value of it, the value of doing it, and
the value of the data that is there.

741
00:34:46,335 --> 00:34:46,755
Mm-hmm.

742
00:34:46,955 --> 00:34:47,114
Right.

743
00:34:47,835 --> 00:34:51,509
I mentioned already about all
the downstream, um, benefits that

744
00:34:51,509 --> 00:34:52,770
come from collecting this data.

745
00:34:54,345 --> 00:34:58,485
Another part of the conference is to
talk about, well, how could we fund it?

746
00:34:58,965 --> 00:35:00,825
There are different models,
certainly national governments.

747
00:35:02,325 --> 00:35:03,675
Um, put money into it.

748
00:35:03,675 --> 00:35:06,225
There's some high net worth
individuals that have funded

749
00:35:06,225 --> 00:35:07,725
their own missions or others.

750
00:35:08,025 --> 00:35:13,485
Uh, there's other NGOs and nonprofits that
are participating, certainly academia.

751
00:35:13,845 --> 00:35:18,495
So is there, are there other models or
can we continue to explore those models?

752
00:35:18,735 --> 00:35:20,685
One model of course is crowdsourcing it.

753
00:35:20,715 --> 00:35:20,985
Yeah.

754
00:35:21,015 --> 00:35:22,395
So crowd funding it.

755
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:22,710
Really?

756
00:35:22,845 --> 00:35:22,905
Yeah.

757
00:35:23,115 --> 00:35:24,585
How do we get individuals?

758
00:35:24,585 --> 00:35:25,875
How does my mom Yeah.

759
00:35:25,905 --> 00:35:26,715
Participate.

760
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,840
She's not going to, actually, my
mom probably would go out on a

761
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,440
ship, but you may not have the
opportunity to go out on a ship.

762
00:35:34,445 --> 00:35:34,965
Right, right.

763
00:35:35,105 --> 00:35:37,770
Um, she's pretty adventurous.

764
00:35:38,130 --> 00:35:40,560
Uh, but, but she still
wants to support it.

765
00:35:40,650 --> 00:35:45,360
So how do we connect again, how do
we map that connection, that gap?

766
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,590
How do we get regular people
involved to participate?

767
00:35:49,590 --> 00:35:50,605
So that's part of the other.

768
00:35:51,375 --> 00:35:52,545
Piece of the conference.

769
00:35:52,634 --> 00:35:52,725
Mm-hmm.

770
00:35:52,965 --> 00:35:56,535
A third part is what technologies
are required and what

771
00:35:56,535 --> 00:35:58,245
technologies are coming online.

772
00:35:58,424 --> 00:36:03,944
So it traditionally, especially in deep
water, you need big ships, you need

773
00:36:03,944 --> 00:36:06,255
humans, you need expensive equipment.

774
00:36:06,495 --> 00:36:09,180
It's a lot of data
processing for a lot of data.

775
00:36:09,965 --> 00:36:12,095
And it takes a really long time.

776
00:36:12,455 --> 00:36:16,175
So that's the traditional,
well, what else is available?

777
00:36:16,355 --> 00:36:17,465
What else do we need?

778
00:36:17,470 --> 00:36:17,730
Right?

779
00:36:17,825 --> 00:36:18,155
Right.

780
00:36:18,155 --> 00:36:21,665
Maybe this is a call to action to
develop new technology, which is why

781
00:36:21,665 --> 00:36:25,205
young people coming, young engineers
and inventors and scientists are so

782
00:36:25,205 --> 00:36:29,585
important to have, because young people
often have the best imaginations, right?

783
00:36:29,585 --> 00:36:30,275
Oh, absolutely.

784
00:36:30,725 --> 00:36:32,495
And so part of the Tuesday morning on the.

785
00:36:32,895 --> 00:36:36,915
28th will be to talk about technologies
that are coming online, and I

786
00:36:36,915 --> 00:36:38,865
know Victor Vesco will be there.

787
00:36:38,865 --> 00:36:43,634
He's going to an announce or
share more about his amazing, uh,

788
00:36:43,634 --> 00:36:45,465
innovations that he's been working on.

789
00:36:45,645 --> 00:36:48,884
We've also got artificial
intelligence specialists who will

790
00:36:48,884 --> 00:36:54,525
be there, people who are making deep
ocean, long, uh, range vehicles.

791
00:36:54,675 --> 00:36:57,405
We've got shallower water,
short range vehicles.

792
00:36:58,290 --> 00:37:02,430
Swarm technology and, and other
sort of complimentary technologies

793
00:37:02,430 --> 00:37:04,590
that go along with all of
that, even to process the data.

794
00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:10,800
And then in the afternoon of the
28th, we've got real technology.

795
00:37:10,890 --> 00:37:16,050
I'm not, the other stuff isn't real, but
like hands-on, uh, what do you call it,

796
00:37:16,050 --> 00:37:19,470
like a show and tell almost down at the
Coast Guard station where people will be

797
00:37:19,470 --> 00:37:21,300
able to see some of this stuff in action.

798
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,620
Uh, see other complimentary technologies
that maybe isn't related to bathymetry,

799
00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:28,710
but it's still related to the
ocean, and that's an opportunity

800
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:32,009
for the public and the media to
come and really see this stuff.

801
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:32,250
Yeah.

802
00:37:32,250 --> 00:37:35,759
And, and that's so important to,
because it makes it tangible and makes

803
00:37:35,759 --> 00:37:39,840
it a little more, um, understandable
than something that's abstract.

804
00:37:40,049 --> 00:37:40,620
Absolutely.

805
00:37:40,830 --> 00:37:41,310
Absolutely.

806
00:37:41,370 --> 00:37:43,440
It, it looks like, uh, I mean,
it looks like a lot of fun.

807
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,520
It looks, it looks like a wide variety,
not your typical, uh, symposium that

808
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,130
you see with a lot of, uh, uh, tech.

809
00:37:50,695 --> 00:37:54,265
Uh, industry, uh, and I think this is,
this is something that's really great.

810
00:37:54,265 --> 00:37:56,095
Looking at funding options.

811
00:37:56,095 --> 00:37:59,485
Look, it looks like it hits the
gamut, like communications, funding,

812
00:37:59,965 --> 00:38:02,095
uh, the actual technology of it all.

813
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,839
Uh, it, I, I really enjoy that
aspect of, of putting it there and

814
00:38:06,839 --> 00:38:11,220
all in the landscape of an ocean
background like Victoria, uh, in bc.

815
00:38:11,220 --> 00:38:14,490
It's just such a, such a perfect,
uh, perfect place to put it.

816
00:38:14,610 --> 00:38:16,080
Um, uh, I love it.

817
00:38:16,140 --> 00:38:17,130
I love the aspect.

818
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,490
Um, and I, I'm, and I'm glad that
you mentioned communications because

819
00:38:20,490 --> 00:38:21,960
I, I meant to include that as well.

820
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,880
There is a whole session
around communication.

821
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:24,180
Yeah.

822
00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:25,799
'cause that's, that's a challenge.

823
00:38:26,095 --> 00:38:30,775
Of, now that we understand maybe the
value and, and the challenges and,

824
00:38:30,955 --> 00:38:34,225
and the practical approaches that
we could take, but a big problem,

825
00:38:34,225 --> 00:38:38,455
a big, big challenge in this whole
community is the communication piece.

826
00:38:38,485 --> 00:38:38,575
Mm-hmm.

827
00:38:38,815 --> 00:38:39,420
How do we reach.

828
00:38:40,140 --> 00:38:43,020
People like my mom, how
do we reach policymakers?

829
00:38:43,020 --> 00:38:45,600
How do we reach perhaps
wealthy people or mm-hmm.

830
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,250
Hedge fund managers who have clients that
wanna support and contribute to this.

831
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:51,810
How do we reach those people?

832
00:38:52,170 --> 00:38:58,890
Uh, because the, the old method of mapping
the ocean floor is really important.

833
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:00,485
Isn't that effective?

834
00:39:00,485 --> 00:39:03,750
Sometimes I think we need some
new and clever ways for how

835
00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:04,740
we can reach these people.

836
00:39:05,130 --> 00:39:05,370
Yeah.

837
00:39:05,370 --> 00:39:07,590
And as someone who's into
communications, I feel, you know,

838
00:39:07,590 --> 00:39:08,970
it's, it's really interesting because.

839
00:39:09,810 --> 00:39:15,000
When I look at comments, when I post
certain, uh, videos or, or my po like,

840
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,140
like the video podcast or audio podcast,
and I see the comments, sometimes you

841
00:39:19,140 --> 00:39:23,850
don't, you don't expect what people
who are not involved in oceans or

842
00:39:23,850 --> 00:39:28,859
conservation or exploration, they have a
very different view of how things look at.

843
00:39:28,859 --> 00:39:31,049
A lot of it's like, what,
how is it important to me?

844
00:39:31,529 --> 00:39:34,439
You know, a lot of it is, is is a
personal thing, and so it's like how

845
00:39:34,439 --> 00:39:37,950
do you make mapping the deep sea?

846
00:39:38,970 --> 00:39:42,420
Personal to the people who are,
who are there, who are watching it

847
00:39:42,420 --> 00:39:44,400
without putting it out of reach.

848
00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:48,930
'cause I think a lot of people think like
mapping something that, that deep is not

849
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,930
gonna affect them in any kind of way in
the future or anything in the deep sea

850
00:39:51,930 --> 00:39:53,850
is not gonna affect them in the future.

851
00:39:54,030 --> 00:39:57,060
So I think that's the challenge is like,
how do we make it personal to them?

852
00:39:57,060 --> 00:40:00,840
How do we make it as like, you
want to be a part of this because

853
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,100
of this without being threatening.

854
00:40:02,130 --> 00:40:02,490
You know?

855
00:40:02,490 --> 00:40:04,770
It's like if we don't map
it, the world's gonna end.

856
00:40:04,830 --> 00:40:05,400
You know what I mean?

857
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:06,630
Like they, because people just.

858
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,560
I'm not gonna listen to that because I
don't like, I don't want to hear that.

859
00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:13,320
But they want to know why
it's important, you know?

860
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,110
And I think, and I think that's valid
and I think, but I think it's also the

861
00:40:16,110 --> 00:40:22,140
challenge because the, the direct, you
know, function of mapping these areas is

862
00:40:22,140 --> 00:40:26,340
not gonna help them personally for the
most part, other than maybe satisfying

863
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:30,630
the need to, to get that information and
to help other things in that process.

864
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:33,300
So it's a matter, I think that's
the challenge is trying to get them.

865
00:40:34,365 --> 00:40:37,754
See it for themselves and
how important it's, right.

866
00:40:38,234 --> 00:40:43,845
Well, one way that it makes it personal
is, uh, there's two sides to this.

867
00:40:43,845 --> 00:40:43,904
Yeah.

868
00:40:44,234 --> 00:40:46,064
One is through the financial benefit.

869
00:40:46,334 --> 00:40:50,564
So if someone donates money to a
nonprofit like MAP apps mm-hmm.

870
00:40:50,924 --> 00:40:53,265
Well, then they get a charitable tax.

871
00:40:53,670 --> 00:40:54,509
For sure credit for that.

872
00:40:54,855 --> 00:40:54,975
Yeah.

873
00:40:54,980 --> 00:40:55,140
Yeah.

874
00:40:55,140 --> 00:40:57,720
So for many people that matters, right?

875
00:40:57,720 --> 00:40:58,259
Yeah, absolutely.

876
00:40:58,259 --> 00:41:01,950
That because they want to donate
something that's for a cause.

877
00:41:01,950 --> 00:41:02,040
Mm-hmm.

878
00:41:02,370 --> 00:41:03,509
Uh, that they support.

879
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:05,970
So, so that's one aspect.

880
00:41:05,970 --> 00:41:09,630
So there's like a, a very tangible
personal benefit or corporate

881
00:41:09,630 --> 00:41:11,370
benefit by donating to a nonprofit.

882
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,830
Another benefit is that.

883
00:41:16,305 --> 00:41:18,944
Mapping like this always needs to be done.

884
00:41:18,944 --> 00:41:19,935
There's always even in mm-hmm.

885
00:41:20,174 --> 00:41:23,805
Harbor, it's constantly being surveyed
and resurveyed because the ocean

886
00:41:23,805 --> 00:41:25,274
floor is a dynamic environment.

887
00:41:25,274 --> 00:41:25,365
Yes.

888
00:41:25,365 --> 00:41:25,904
It's changing.

889
00:41:26,265 --> 00:41:30,044
However, that being said, it's
never been done the first time.

890
00:41:30,375 --> 00:41:30,555
Yeah.

891
00:41:30,585 --> 00:41:38,055
And so we have to recognize that there,
there is something about human nature

892
00:41:38,774 --> 00:41:41,504
where we want to explore the undiscovered.

893
00:41:41,625 --> 00:41:41,805
Mm-hmm.

894
00:41:42,285 --> 00:41:43,904
And the ocean floor.

895
00:41:44,490 --> 00:41:45,990
Remains undiscovered.

896
00:41:46,020 --> 00:41:46,230
Yeah.

897
00:41:46,649 --> 00:41:48,870
For the most part, over 70%.

898
00:41:49,020 --> 00:41:49,259
Yeah.

899
00:41:49,319 --> 00:41:54,270
So how do we get people, and I think
people will want to be a part of it,

900
00:41:54,359 --> 00:41:59,640
and if they have their tiny little
area that they say, I was involved

901
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,569
with that, and there's the picture
hanging on the wall behind me.

902
00:42:03,569 --> 00:42:03,660
Mm-hmm.

903
00:42:03,930 --> 00:42:08,879
That shows that I was responsible
for that, or I participated with.

904
00:42:09,225 --> 00:42:14,625
My third year university class or my,
or my sixth grade class, or a group

905
00:42:14,625 --> 00:42:20,445
of neighbors and friends or a hedge
fund that I was with that funded and

906
00:42:20,445 --> 00:42:25,095
supported the exploration of that
piece of the ocean floor because once

907
00:42:25,095 --> 00:42:27,375
it's done, once we've done it once.

908
00:42:27,669 --> 00:42:29,440
We'll never be able to do it.

909
00:42:29,589 --> 00:42:29,710
Yeah.

910
00:42:29,710 --> 00:42:31,330
Again, in the same way.

911
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,310
And so there's something finite about it.

912
00:42:33,310 --> 00:42:33,460
Yep.

913
00:42:33,819 --> 00:42:38,620
Like, like the little tickers that
you see on the side of the YMCA, you

914
00:42:38,620 --> 00:42:42,910
know, with the, with the thermometer
going up and up with each, uh, $5,000

915
00:42:42,910 --> 00:42:46,149
donation that comes in until they
reach their goal, we can do the same.

916
00:42:46,359 --> 00:42:46,480
Yeah.

917
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:47,859
So as we continue.

918
00:42:48,195 --> 00:42:52,785
To progress towards a hundred
percent, then that's less opportunity

919
00:42:52,785 --> 00:42:53,835
for people to get involved.

920
00:42:54,705 --> 00:42:55,125
Yeah, agreed.

921
00:42:55,425 --> 00:42:58,275
I do think that's where the
emotional connection comes in.

922
00:42:58,455 --> 00:42:58,545
Yeah.

923
00:42:58,575 --> 00:43:02,655
This idea of I'm part of the
last great exploration on

924
00:43:02,655 --> 00:43:04,185
earth and it is the last one.

925
00:43:04,649 --> 00:43:06,960
Right, because we've done everything else.

926
00:43:07,290 --> 00:43:12,480
We've done all the land, we've done
all the ice, and we've done lots of

927
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,120
things, but we haven't done the oceans.

928
00:43:15,149 --> 00:43:17,430
And it's, there's a lot to do.

929
00:43:17,490 --> 00:43:19,560
There is a lot to do, no doubt in my mind.

930
00:43:19,859 --> 00:43:23,790
Uh, and, and it starts with,
you know, following map the

931
00:43:23,790 --> 00:43:26,040
gaps, learning at the symposium.

932
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,460
If you're interested in this kind
of avenue, uh, whether you're

933
00:43:29,460 --> 00:43:32,490
involved within the, the mapping
industry or the ocean industry.

934
00:43:32,805 --> 00:43:36,435
Or you're, you're involved personally
and you want to find out more.

935
00:43:36,645 --> 00:43:40,004
Uh, the symposium is
October 27th to the 28th.

936
00:43:40,004 --> 00:43:40,545
That's correct.

937
00:43:40,575 --> 00:43:42,795
20 October 27th, 26th to the 29th.

938
00:43:42,795 --> 00:43:43,785
26th to the 29th.

939
00:43:43,785 --> 00:43:44,475
My apologies.

940
00:43:44,625 --> 00:43:50,145
October 26th to the 29th, uh, in Victoria,
uh, bc Uh, it's gonna be a lot of fun.

941
00:43:50,174 --> 00:43:51,076
Uh, this is, you know.

942
00:43:51,630 --> 00:43:55,470
I would love to invite you back, Tim,
to talk more about mapping and getting

943
00:43:55,470 --> 00:43:59,790
into the details of what it's gonna
look like to, to map these, uh, these

944
00:43:59,790 --> 00:44:02,220
areas and, and why it's so important.

945
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,090
Uh, so I'd love to invite you back on
to, to discuss more, uh, maybe in, in,

946
00:44:06,090 --> 00:44:09,570
in August, we'll have you on for, for
another podcast, if that's okay with you.

947
00:44:09,810 --> 00:44:13,440
And, uh, it'll be a lot of fun to,
to be able to explore more, uh,

948
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,680
of the Deep Sea and to see what
what there is to, to look out for.

949
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,875
So, uh, looking forward to having you back
on if, uh, if you're willing, of course.

950
00:44:20,850 --> 00:44:21,030
Yeah.

951
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:21,270
Great.

952
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:21,810
Thanks, Andrew.

953
00:44:21,810 --> 00:44:24,210
It was, uh, it's been, it's been a
pleasure to speak with you and of

954
00:44:24,210 --> 00:44:27,090
course I'd be, I, I would welcome
the opportunity to come back.

955
00:44:27,090 --> 00:44:28,560
I'm always happy to talk about this stuff.

956
00:44:28,860 --> 00:44:33,360
Like, like anyone who's passionate about
it, I have short things to talk about.

957
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:33,510
Awesome.

958
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,570
So if you're willing to have me,
I'd, I'd love to come back and

959
00:44:36,570 --> 00:44:37,650
talk more about it, so thanks.

960
00:44:37,710 --> 00:44:38,340
Yeah, absolutely.

961
00:44:38,340 --> 00:44:41,700
We'll put the link, uh, for people to
get more information on the symposium.

962
00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:45,390
It's at ocean floor explorer.org,
but I'll put the link so that

963
00:44:45,390 --> 00:44:47,130
people can, uh, get access to it.

964
00:44:47,370 --> 00:44:49,500
Uh, and until next time, Tim,
thank you so much for joining us.

965
00:44:50,174 --> 00:44:50,504
Great.

966
00:44:50,504 --> 00:44:50,895
Thanks Andrew.

967
00:44:51,870 --> 00:44:52,290
Bye for now.

968
00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:54,750
Thank you, Tim, for joining us
on today's episode of the How

969
00:44:54,750 --> 00:44:55,950
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

970
00:44:55,950 --> 00:44:58,500
It was great to be able to talk to
you about Map the Gap, something

971
00:44:58,500 --> 00:45:00,480
that is very important to me as well.

972
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,930
Obviously important to you and should be
important to you, the audience member.

973
00:45:03,930 --> 00:45:06,899
And I would love to hear what you
thought about the interview, what

974
00:45:06,899 --> 00:45:08,339
you think about Map the Gaps.

975
00:45:08,399 --> 00:45:11,055
Is this something you'd be
interested in participating in?

976
00:45:11,254 --> 00:45:15,569
Whether you can volunteer your
time or whether you can donate

977
00:45:15,569 --> 00:45:16,560
a certain amount of money.

978
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:20,650
To maybe like sponsoring a piece of
an ocean that needs to be mapped.

979
00:45:20,650 --> 00:45:24,640
I would love to hear from you if you
wanna DM me on Instagram at how to

980
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,700
Protect the Ocean, I would love to hear
if you would be interested in doing that.

981
00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:32,650
Or you can email me by going to
speak up for blue.com/contact

982
00:45:32,650 --> 00:45:33,580
and just fill out the form.

983
00:45:33,580 --> 00:45:34,060
Email me.

984
00:45:34,060 --> 00:45:36,700
I would love to hear from
you, but other than that.

985
00:45:37,185 --> 00:45:39,615
I would love for you to
go to map the gaps.org.

986
00:45:39,795 --> 00:45:43,154
I'll put the link in the show notes to
check out what MAP the gaps is all about.

987
00:45:43,395 --> 00:45:47,775
And I would also like for you to go
register for the Map the Gaps Symposium.

988
00:45:47,805 --> 00:45:52,545
If you go to map the gaps.org/symposium,
you can click the registration

989
00:45:52,545 --> 00:45:53,865
button and you'll register there.

990
00:45:53,895 --> 00:45:57,315
Again, I will click that in the show notes
or in the description below, depending on

991
00:45:57,315 --> 00:45:59,325
how you are watching or listening to this.

992
00:45:59,325 --> 00:46:01,845
But other than that, thank you
again to Tim for joining us.

993
00:46:01,845 --> 00:46:04,305
We'll have him back on because I
wanna talk more about Matthew gaps

994
00:46:04,305 --> 00:46:06,105
and why it's important to discuss.

995
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:11,220
And link to the ocean bottom and making
sure that we are mapping the ocean bottom.

996
00:46:11,370 --> 00:46:12,780
I'm looking forward to having him back.

997
00:46:12,780 --> 00:46:15,870
But in that, I wanna thank you so much
for joining us on today's episode of

998
00:46:15,870 --> 00:46:17,190
the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

999
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:19,800
I'm your host, Angela, one from
the true nor strong and free.

1000
00:46:20,010 --> 00:46:20,610
Have a great day.

1001
00:46:20,610 --> 00:46:22,530
We'll talk to you next time
and happy conservation.