Plastic pollution in the ocean: How the Global Treaty Could Change Everything

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Plastic pollution is a problem for
all of us, not just the environment.

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Studies have shown that plastic
pollution has affected human health

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in the cardiovascular system, in
our tissues and other places that

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will cause us to eventually die or
have harmful effects due to plastic

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pollution bringing down in our system.

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Plastic pollution is
a fossil fuel product.

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It is creating using petroleum.

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It's a petroleum product
and things need to change.

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Certain countries like Canada are banning
specific single use plastics, but it's

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being attacked in court and there's an
appeal decision waiting as we speak.

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Internationally, there
is a plastic treaty.

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It was hoped to be finished in
2024, and it's been worked on for

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the last two to three years, but
it still hasn't been completed.

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Now, there are meetings as we speak in
Geneva to be able to come to an agreement

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to put a plastic treaty in place.

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Will it be completed by
the end of this meeting?

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I doubt it.

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I hope so, but I highly doubt it.

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But we're gonna talk about why
it's being held up, what you can do

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about it, and all the information
related to it on this episode of the

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How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and this
is the podcast where you find out what's

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happening with the ocean, how you can
speak up for the ocean, what you can do to

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live for a better ocean by taking action.

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And just to let you know, I love how
you're listening to this podcast.

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I love how if you've been here
for a while and you continue

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to listen, thank you so much.

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And if you're just new here, welcome.

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This is where I break down a lot of things
that are happening around the world with

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plastic pollution, other ocean issues, and
just share some good news, some bad news,

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and some just regular news of new species
like I did last episode or a couple of

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episodes ago where there was a new species

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of manta rays that were
just discovered and named.

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so fun stuff like that.

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sometimes not so fun stuff like in
this case, but I break down what's

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being done about it and how it's
going to affect you in the future.

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So if you wanna know more and you
want to be more involved in ocean

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related stuff, join the undertow.

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It is a online community that I'm
creating with two other co-founders,

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and we are creating this online app.

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It's coming out soon.

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We want you to join the waiting list.

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Just go to speak up for blue.com/join
the undertow and we'll give

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you more information there.

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Let's get started with the show.

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Look, the plastic treaty has been talked
about for the last couple of years.

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I've had people on to talk about it
from Oceana, from Monterey Bay Aquarium.

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We've talked about the hopes.

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We've talked about the challenges
that we faced coming into the plastic

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treaty or during the different
meetings in the plastic treaty.

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There were four meetings that I remember
and that were done all over the world.

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And they had people like nations
come in from all over the world.

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They had industry, they had nonprofit
organizations, environmental NGOs and

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other government departments that were
coming in to say, Hey, you know what?

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We want a plastic treaty.

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And then of course the industry's
like, Hey, you know what?

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We don't really need a plastic treaty.

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We don't need to limit plastic.

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We need to build plastic.

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'cause guess what?

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30% of fossil fuel revenues
come from creating plastic.

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Plastic is a petroleum product.

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I'm not sure if you knew that.

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That's something I didn't know
up until a couple of years ago.

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But it's a petroleum product and the
petroleum companies rely on one third

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of their business to create plastic.

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So there's a reason for plastics to
be in, and that's a greedy reason.

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Now plastics also provide something
that's very, you know, convenient for us.

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You can have plastic straws, you can
have plastic utensils or plastic water

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bottles, all these different types of
things that we use in our regular day.

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But then you go on and a lot
of things are used in plastics.

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I'm looking around in my office here.

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I've got two monitors.

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I've got all these things that are encased
in plastic, they're reusable plastic,

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but eventually when they get discarded,
which they will at some point in time.

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They're not gonna break down easy.

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Or when they do break down, it could
end up in the ocean or they could end

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up in a landfill that's not really
properly discarded and managed.

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And so that, here it comes a problem
where we need better waste management

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systems, even in developed countries
like Canada and the US and other places.

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And then we also need to be real
about, are all these things recyclable?

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Like we're told, you know, they're told if
you have plastic put in the recycling bin.

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But we've known over this
podcast, we've been listening

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to this over the last 10 years.

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You know that the recycling is pretty
much a sham other than a few items that

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are local to you that might be like, hey.

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in your region or your county, they might
be able to, you know, recycle specific

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plastics, but for the most part, they
don't get recycled because the regular

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old school coffee cups have this like
wax on it that can't be separated.

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So the actual material that is recyclable
can't be recycled because of that

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wax on it that keeps the cup intact.

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Now you have a number of just like
plastic cups that are single use that

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just get thrown around, whether it be
on the pavement or in a garbage or in

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a recycling bin, but doesn't actually
get recycled and ends up going to the

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landfill, breaks down, chemicals break
down, gets into our ecosystem, gets into

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our environment, gets into our system.

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There have been studies that show that
air molecules contain microplastics.

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You get sea salt that
contains microplastic.

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It's pretty much everywhere.

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It's in our systems.

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You know, I have two girls who are in
the teenage age group and you know, I

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can just imagine how much plastic they've
had just in their environment over time.

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And it's something that is very
scary from a health perspective.

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You know, it's been scary for a
lot of conservationists before and

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people who love the environment of
what it's doing to our environment.

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But as we keep telling people,
eventually it ends up harming us.

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And this has been harming us
for a while, and the studies

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are really just showing it.

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And we've continued to allow for
single use plastics and other plastics

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to be used in our systems because
it's convenient, because we want to

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have that like rush of a lifestyle.

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We don't slow down enough.

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So if like we're thirsty, we're gonna go
to a convenience store, we're gonna go to

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a store and we're gonna get something in
a plastic cup or in a plastic bottle, and

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we're not gonna use our reusable bottles
'cause they're heavy and they're a pain

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in the butt to bring around and so forth.

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People think like that.

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That's just, you know how people
think whether we like it or not.

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Or you can call them lazy, we
can call 'em all these names.

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People think like that and there's
sometimes where you forget a water

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bottle or you forget something,
but you're really thirsty.

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It's hot outside.

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I don't know if you guys have
had a bad summer in terms of

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no rain and just pure heat.

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but here in Canada we haven't had
as bad as a lot of places around the

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world that we're used to humidity, but
we've had humidity almost all summer.

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Normally it's just for a few weeks
or maybe the last bit of August, or

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just a part in August, maybe a little
bit in July, but since the end of

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June, we've had humidity up the wazoo.

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and I'll tell you, like no
rain, very, very little rain.

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We've had rain, but not much, not what's
necessary to keep everything moving.

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You know, like keep our, ecosystem
doing well and keeping our plants

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watered and, just our regular
ecosystem functioning going and

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we're gonna pay for it eventually.

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It's coming and we just don't know how
it arrives, but we need some sort of

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management, not only from a national
perspective in each of our countries, but

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also from an international perspective.

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That's why the plastic treaty has been
such an important part of creating

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an international binding agreement.

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You know, whether you think those are
right or not, or people abide by them

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or not, a binding agreement that allows
countries to use as a legislative tool

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and a conservation tool to put in laws
that will regulate and manage single

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use plastics and plastics in general.

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As an example, I wanted to go over what
Canada has done and I apologize for people

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who have listened to this before because
people who have listened to this, I've

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talked about this since it was announced
and since it was put in, in 2021.

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But essentially in 2021, the federal
government in Canada designated plastics

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as toxic under the CEPA in 2021.

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So enabling regulatory measures like that
ban on the certain single use plastics.

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And then you have in 2023 the
federal court rules and designation

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unreasonable that all plastics
are toxic and unconstitutional.

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So it was challenged by chemical
companies and by fossil fuel companies,

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like large, large corporate companies
that make and create plastics.

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They said, Hey, you know what?

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We want to continue making this.

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We don't necessarily have a
problem with the single use ban.

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We just don't want all plastics
to be designated as toxic

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'cause we don't believe that.

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We think that's just a general type
of classification and it's not true.

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And until you prove that, and this is
what I love about industries, like

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until you prove that it's bad for us
and all plastics are bad for us, you

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can't say that, that it's regulated.

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And the reason why they put, you
know, plastic is toxic in general

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it allows them to create these tools
like the single use ban plastics.

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There's also a registry that's being
created, a plastics registry that

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will follow the plastics through
the supply chain of its creation and

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where it goes and how it's bought and
everything, and how it's disposed of.

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I assume there's gonna be some regulatory
matter coming in the future when they

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analyze that registry to find out of
who's responsible for disposing of

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these and creating a better product
for these plastics and which plastics

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are worse and which plastics are
not as bad, and all sorts of things.

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So I'm sure that's coming and that's
what these companies are worried about.

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They don't really care about the
single use plastics ban that Canada

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has, but they do care the fact that
there's this overarching classification

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that plastics are toxic under the
Canadian Environmental Protection Act.

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So, they challenged it.

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The federal court said, Hey, you
know what, you can't just do that's

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overly broad and unconstitutional.

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And said the government failed to show
that every such item poses a risk, which

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I almost feel like it should be reversed.

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I'm always of the mindset
that it should be reversed.

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If you have a company and you
create a product, you should show

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that it's not harmful to humans.

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They should show it's not
harmful to the environment.

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If it is, you need to change it.

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That's pretty much, it'll slow your
process down, but come up with a better

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product and you really use innovation.

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Anyway, in summer of 2024, the appeal
proceeded in around mid 2024 in June.

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On June 25th, 2024, the Federal
Court of Appeal heard arguments

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both for and against the validity
of the toxic classification.

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The federal government asserted
that all plastics, or at least those

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that break down can cause harm,
justifying the classification as

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necessary for comprehensive regulation.

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Environmental NGOs as well
as health groups stepped in.

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The Coalition of Health and environmental
groups like the Davis Suzuki Foundation,

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Greenpeace Canada, as well as others
intervene in support of the government's

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position saying that, the classification
that all plastics toxic is necessary

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for comprehensive regulation.

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that's always good.

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And then the decision for
the appeal is still pending.

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As of January 2025 and from what
I've looked up, we have not been

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able to see what has come out.

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And if you do know if I missed
it somehow, please let me know if

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there's been a decision or not.

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It is something that, you
know, we're waiting on.

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But what's nice is that the court granted
a stay so that the regulation on single

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use plastic ban can still go through.

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What I worry about is that all other
regulations that have been created for

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this or we're in the process of being
created has pretty much put a pause on it.

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'cause government doesn't wanna waste any
type of work or money on something that

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may or may not be able to go through.

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I think they should still be working
on it personally but I can see a lot of

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people saying like, why are you doing
this when at some point you're not gonna

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wanna do that or it might not be valid
and you might not be able to do it.

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So, I think that's probably what
the holdup of some of the other

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regulations that are coming out.

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But it's nice to have.

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It's nice that some of these
countries like Canada are

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actually putting it through.

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I think Costa Rica also banned
single use plastics and then

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some other countries as well.

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That's a huge feat.

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But as we speak now in August
of 2025, if you're listening to

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this until August 14th, 2025.

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In Geneva, there is the Ink
5.2 negotiations underway.

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So this is the plastic treaty.

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So the fifth round is split into two
sessions due to the slow progress.

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So the current talks run until
August 14th, but there's tension.

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There's about 200 industry
lobbyists in the room.

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They are there to essentially slow down
the process or essentially just get in

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its way, and start to put in certain
caveats and exceptions that allow their

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companies that they represent to have

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these exceptions, and they can do
pretty much whatever you want, but the

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guardian reports, industry delegates
outnumber the scientists at Geneva

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talks and raising transparency concerns.

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So they're worried about what's
been happening and how once private

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companies get involved that are not
transparent and that have sort of

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a devious or nefarious sort of act

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when they go there, they want to stop
this plastic treaty from going on.

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Let's be honest.

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All these organizations, these
corporations and stuff, they

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don't want, like the industry,
they do not want this to happen.

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It's gonna impede on
their progress for money.

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It's gonna impede on their progress
for creating products for other people.

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The plastic treaty is gonna slow
down their growth essentially,

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and that's what they want.

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But you know, it's pretty big.

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Now, small island nations in the EU
are pushing for caps on the number

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of plastic products that can be made.

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Oil producing countries prefer
waste management focus instead.

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And so instead of banning or putting
caps or a quota on the amount of plastic

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products that can come out, oil producing
countries prefer waste management focus.

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That's a worrisome because it's kind of
like the climate change, you know, oil

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producing companies depending on who's
in charge of the government want to use

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carbon capture, which hasn't really been
proven to work efficiently, as they say.

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And so they abandon all other ways.

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They're saying, no, we can actually just
innovate our way out of it and we can

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create these carbon capture services,
and then we can capture all the carbon.

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Well, the same thing here.

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Well, we can recycle and we can,
you know, manage our waste better.

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But even in countries like Canada
and the US and other countries.

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You know, we've known in the past
that we've actually taken a lot of

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our recyclable material and we've
shifted off to small island states.

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So they have to dispose of it.

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Now, we pay for them to dispose it, but
then they don't really dispose of it.

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And when in a report came out saying 80%
of the plastic pollution that's happening

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is happening in these small island
states, people are like, well, why are

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these small island states doing this?

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You know, larger developed states
saying, Hey, you know what?

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We're gonna just ship our stuff.

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You guys can take care of it.

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We'll just pay you money.

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Outta sight outta mind.

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Well, that doesn't help.

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Right?

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That didn't help at all.

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It vilified these small island states
when we didn't know what was happening.

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And now look what happens.

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We know that this whole
recycling game is just garbage.

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It was allegedly created by the chemical
industry, and fossil food industry

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to say, Hey, you know what, yeah,
we're gonna create this stuff, but

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it's actually recyclable so you can
reuse it over and over and over again.

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And we'll just create different products.

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We know that unless it has a
market, it costs money to break

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it down, to create and somebody
has to purchase the materials.

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there's not a market for a
lot of this stuff and it's

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not sturdy enough for do it.

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For example, just allegedly, 'cause I
don't know of this for sure, but water

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bottles that you have, like plastic
water bottles can be used up to two

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00:14:13,141 --> 00:14:15,331
times when it's taken down and rebuilt.

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After that, it just doesn't have the
ability to hold as a water bottle.

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So that's a problem.

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Let's look at some of the
people who are speaking out.

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So we have the spotlight on small
island stays pushing for bold cuts.

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So countries like Palau and Vanuatu
argue for caps to protect fisheries and

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tourism economies 'cause once you know
plastics get into the fish, it's not good.

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Professor Richard Thompson warns
that without caps reuse systems

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00:14:37,311 --> 00:14:40,251
and chemical controls, the
treaty risks to be irrelevant.

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00:14:40,251 --> 00:14:44,001
So without those controls in the
treaty, without having a lot of

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regulations within there, we're having
a lot of the ability for small island

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states as well as other countries to
be able to put in these into place.

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00:14:50,811 --> 00:14:53,631
The treaty's gonna be just a piece of
paper and that's all it's gonna be.

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And we do not want that.

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It's like marine protected areas.

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We don't want paper parks.

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Right.

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Now the health toll that happens.

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So you got BPA, you got phthalates,
you got pfas which disrupt hormones.

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They impair fertility and
then they raise cancer risks.

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All these things are caused
due to plastics, and they're

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linked to cardiovascular disease,
cancer, and endocrine impacts.

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00:15:12,303 --> 00:15:17,764
the us $1.5 trillion in health damages
to that 400,000 death tied to BPA.

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00:15:17,823 --> 00:15:18,813
That's crazy.

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so the Leny study, calculated
costs from reduced productivity

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healthcare and premature death.

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00:15:24,483 --> 00:15:27,453
Now, a shocking note, microplastics
detected in humans reproductive organs.

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00:15:27,453 --> 00:15:31,663
So in August, 2025, a study confirmed
particles in testicular tissue

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00:15:31,663 --> 00:15:33,343
potentially affected fertility.

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00:15:33,343 --> 00:15:35,413
So we're gonna have lower
fertility because of this.

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00:15:35,693 --> 00:15:39,803
so, you know, you wonder if this treaty
is actually going to come into play.

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00:15:40,438 --> 00:15:42,898
At what point do we say
we need to put this in?

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At what point do people stand up and
say, this is an important part to us.

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00:15:46,948 --> 00:15:50,008
The fact that it's affecting us and
our children, microplastics have

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been found in breast milk and infant.

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That's how bad we are at the point.

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00:15:54,583 --> 00:15:58,153
So when kids are born and they have
formula, or they have breast milk

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right from the get go, they have
microplastics components in them,

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00:16:03,043 --> 00:16:04,543
and obviously that's not good.

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00:16:04,943 --> 00:16:06,473
there's also equity concerns.

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00:16:06,473 --> 00:16:09,833
So global south and development
versus environmental justice.

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00:16:09,833 --> 00:16:13,793
So low income nations fear
caps could limit their economic

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00:16:13,793 --> 00:16:15,473
growth if funding is not provided.

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00:16:15,683 --> 00:16:17,993
So there's gonna have to
be some type of funding.

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00:16:18,093 --> 00:16:20,253
And then of course, you know,
India argues for consensus

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without stifling development.

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00:16:21,483 --> 00:16:24,723
So, India's position measures must align
with sustainable development goals.

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00:16:24,723 --> 00:16:27,603
So they have to fit within
other legislative bodies or with

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00:16:27,633 --> 00:16:29,253
other international agreements.

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00:16:29,553 --> 00:16:34,538
All of this stuff is related
to this plastic treaty, right?

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00:16:34,818 --> 00:16:40,178
There are different aspects in this, and
I can't break it down into one episode.

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I'm already getting long in this episode.

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00:16:42,151 --> 00:16:46,951
But it's something where if we have
a system where we do not control our

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00:16:46,951 --> 00:16:49,381
plastic pollution, we are going to have

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00:16:49,381 --> 00:16:54,481
significant impacts on our health
of our bodies, as well as our

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ecosystems, and we can't afford that.

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We are in a position right now in the
world where things are really boiling and

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to a point where it's getting really bad.

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00:17:04,791 --> 00:17:06,261
We need to have some controls.

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00:17:06,261 --> 00:17:09,831
We can't just let corporations
and companies continue to take

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00:17:09,831 --> 00:17:11,991
over and continue to drive.

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00:17:11,991 --> 00:17:14,241
economy over environmental health.

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00:17:14,631 --> 00:17:19,521
So we need to ensure that we are
building a stronger, more resilient

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00:17:19,521 --> 00:17:24,876
society by controlling the stuff that's,
you know, can impede that and that is

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microplastics and plastic pollution.

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There are certain things
that you can do to help.

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00:17:29,843 --> 00:17:33,653
The first thing that I would do if you
were watching this before August 14th,

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is go to your government representative
and say, we want a plastic treaty.

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We want our country.

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00:17:40,403 --> 00:17:43,403
So for me, it'd be Canada to
sign on to the plastic treaty.

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00:17:43,403 --> 00:17:47,653
And we wanted to make sure that
we are protected from our health

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00:17:47,653 --> 00:17:51,103
concerns and our environmental
concerns from plastic pollution.

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00:17:51,403 --> 00:17:53,653
That'd be the first thing
that I would like you to do.

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00:17:53,963 --> 00:17:57,593
You could also follow, like Greenpeace
Plastic Pollution Coalition, surf

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00:17:57,593 --> 00:18:01,013
Rider Foundation that are running
campaigns and volunteer on those

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00:18:01,013 --> 00:18:04,553
campaigns or help share those
campaigns on social media and so forth.

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00:18:04,893 --> 00:18:09,873
Small actions that you can do is
just look around and eliminate the

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single use plastics in your life.

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00:18:12,288 --> 00:18:14,688
There are a lot of single-use
plastics in your life.

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00:18:14,718 --> 00:18:16,938
If you can eliminate where it
fits within your lifestyle.

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00:18:16,938 --> 00:18:18,438
You will have to change a little bit.

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00:18:18,648 --> 00:18:20,808
You might have to change certain
type of products that you use.

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00:18:21,048 --> 00:18:23,778
You might have to change certain things
that you do, but you can do those small

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00:18:23,778 --> 00:18:27,678
changes 'cause they add up to large,
large, you know, betterments of our world.

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00:18:27,708 --> 00:18:28,578
And so that's huge.

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00:18:28,638 --> 00:18:31,098
So just municipal bans on
single-use plastics have cut

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00:18:31,098 --> 00:18:32,838
plastic bag litter by 70%.

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00:18:32,838 --> 00:18:33,888
That's huge right.

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00:18:33,948 --> 00:18:35,598
In certain municipalities, so that's good.

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00:18:35,908 --> 00:18:38,608
And the big thing is, is like
we all have a stake in this.

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00:18:39,193 --> 00:18:40,213
In the plastic crisis.

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00:18:40,243 --> 00:18:41,353
And so we should all act.

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00:18:41,593 --> 00:18:44,413
This is not just, oh, let the
environmental NGOs do it or

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00:18:44,413 --> 00:18:45,493
let the governments handle it.

387
00:18:45,703 --> 00:18:46,483
This is all of us.

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00:18:46,573 --> 00:18:47,113
This is all of us.

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00:18:47,113 --> 00:18:49,873
You look at your families, you
look at your kids, you look at your

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00:18:49,873 --> 00:18:53,443
parents, you look at your neighbors
and so forth, your community, and

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00:18:53,443 --> 00:18:54,758
you can say, if we take this action.

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00:18:55,398 --> 00:18:59,208
We are bettering our society, we are
making our society more resilient

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00:18:59,478 --> 00:19:02,568
towards plastic pollution because
there'll be less plastic pollution.

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00:19:02,658 --> 00:19:05,118
So that's where I want to end it today.

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00:19:05,148 --> 00:19:07,158
I would love to hear, your suggestions.

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00:19:07,368 --> 00:19:09,408
What we can do, let me
know in the comments below.

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00:19:09,408 --> 00:19:14,118
If you're listening to this on YouTube
or hit me up with an email, go to speak

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00:19:14,118 --> 00:19:17,058
up for blue.com/contact, fill it out.

399
00:19:17,058 --> 00:19:17,933
It goes right to my email.

400
00:19:18,268 --> 00:19:21,448
Or you can hit me up on Instagram,
DM me at how to protect the ocean.

401
00:19:21,448 --> 00:19:23,158
It's at how to protect the ocean.

402
00:19:23,428 --> 00:19:25,768
I wanna thank you so much for
joining me on today's episode

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00:19:25,798 --> 00:19:27,028
of the How to Protect the Ocean.

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00:19:27,358 --> 00:19:30,208
I'm your host Andrew Lewin from the true
nor strong and free, have a great day.

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00:19:30,208 --> 00:19:32,428
We'll talk to you next time
and happy conservation.