All The Sharks, filming, science, and stories from the field

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Imagine competing against other
scientists, underwater camera divers,

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and all sorts of people who have
made it a career to dive underwater.

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Looking for specific animals with
only a few tanks of air, certain

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amount of time during the day.

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Raging currents and giant
predators around every corner.

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My guests today are Dr.

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Chris Malinowski and Dr. B Brendan Towar.

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They did exactly that as a part
of Netflix series, hit series.

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All the sharks, and trust me, they're
behind the scenes stories will.

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Definitely surprise.

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We're gonna be talking about their
personal journeys of going from scientists

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to advocates in a way, and trying to
find that line where they can still

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speak well about the unbiased science,
but also advocate for the environment.

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It's something that a lot of scientists
go through, including myself, trying

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to figure out where they should be
along that line, and this is a really

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interesting conversation that I had.

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On this episode of the How
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and
this is the podcast where you find

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out what's happening with the ocean,
how you can speak up for the ocean,

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and what you can do to live for
a better ocean by taking action.

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On today's episode, we have
two special, special guests.

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They are from the hit series, all the
sharks, where people would take tanks,

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four tanks a day for eight hours in
different places around the world, and

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they would compete to take pictures of
different species of sharks, each worth

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different points in different places.

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So a tiger shark in the maldive is
worth three points because they're

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found all over the place, and when they
go to the Galapagos, they're worth a

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lot more like maybe 60 or 75 points.

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I forget the number exactly.

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But they are worth a lot more because
they're rare in those areas and these

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divers, underwater photographers
and underwater videographers,

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scientists, conservationists, science
communicators, are all up to compete

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against with four prize where they
can give money towards charity.

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This was a reality show like
we've never seen before.

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The one thing I love about this reality
show is it showed the diversity of sharks.

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We got away from just tigers, bulls,
great whites, thresher sharks, all

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these different types of sharks that
we see over and over and over again

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on different types of like shark
weeks and shark fests and so forth.

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It's always good to know those stuff,
but after a while we kind of just think

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those are the only sharks that are around
or people who aren't familiar with it.

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Don't really get to know a lot of
the other sharks that are around.

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And we saw wgan sharks,
we saw old silky sharks.

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We saw cat, leopard cat
sharks in South Africa.

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We saw all these
different types of sharks.

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Rare as well as
interesting looking sharks.

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And we really got to see the passion
of the scientists that were on here,

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including Chris Malinowski and Brennan
Tower, who are here to discuss.

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Their experience with all the Sharks.

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Also their career and how they got to on
all the Sharks, like what it was like,

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what they were worried about, what they
wanted to make sure they got through,

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how they were happy with the way that
they did the show, like the producers

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and edited the show and the way they
looked when they came out of the show.

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It was really well done.

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You know, obviously I have a video that
I'll link to in the show notes where,

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you know, I talked about how much I
loved this show and it was just nice

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to be able to get Chris and Brendan.

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I had Aaliyah on the Beyond Jaws
podcast with Dave Ebert and then I

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was able to get Chris and Brendan.

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Chris just got married.

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They both came in from the field like over
the summer that they were there a lot.

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And so it was just great to be
able to be a part and get to hear

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their part and their story behind
the scenes of all the Sharks.

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So it was great to hear it.

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I'm happy that you get to
listen to this interview.

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Enjoy this interview with Chris and
Brendan and I'll talk to you after.

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Hey Chris.

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Hey Brendan.

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Welcome to the How to
Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Are you ready to talk
about all the sharks?

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely wonderful.

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Excited for it actually.

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Wonderful.

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Right on.

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I'm super pumped because this is
something that we've been wanting

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to do for quite a long time.

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Uh, when all the sharks was released
in the summer, uh, you guys were

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in the field doing your science
work, and so it's always difficult.

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We have to talk about, we have to talk
to production companies, I think of

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getting people to be like, look, we have
scientists who actually work in the field

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in the summers and they need to stay
in the field, and they can't do press

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when you release it in the summer, so
we'll have to talk to them about that.

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Well, so I, I actually had to write into
the contract that I needed to be back by a

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certain date because I had a field season
to get back for, so that wasn't there.

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The actual.

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An actual consideration.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I love it.

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Well, this is great.

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I'm, I'm super happy to have you, to
have you on because, um, you know, this

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is something that I've been wanting
to have you guys on for a while.

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We've been talking for a while, back
and forth, uh, a lot of cool things that

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happened to you guys over the summer.

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Chris, you got, you got
married, which is awesome.

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Uh, and yeah, that's fantastic.

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Um, so we're going, we're gonna talk
a lot about all the sharks and, and

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how that whole production works.

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We had Leon earlier in the summer, and she
talked a little bit about, you know, what,

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well, she talked a lot about what she did.

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Uh, and, uh, I wanna get your guys'
take, you know, we're not gonna, there's

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still people who are watching this show,
so we're not gonna say who won, right?

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But we can say that you
guys did pretty well, right?

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You guys went pretty far.

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So we'll just go as, as that.

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But I don't wanna say too many people
that you know who won and who not.

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You gotta watch the show on Netflix.

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All the sharks.

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But I wanna get to know, not just your,
the, the whole production thing, but

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I want to get to know your experience,
not only in, you know, all the sharks,

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but you know, how you became scientists
and what really got you into scientists

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and how this show has potentially
changed your way of viewing how you do

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science communication in the future.

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So that's what we're gonna
be talking about today.

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We're gonna talk about all sorts
of things, so I'm super excited.

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But before we do, I wanna get to
know you guys a little bit more.

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So Chris, could you just let us
know who you are and what you do?

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Well, kind of like you, Andrew.

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I grew up far removed from the ocean
in, uh, a state called Wisconsin.

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Very northern part of the United States.

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And what, what state is that?

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You've passed through it before
on your way, on your way up

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to Canada, I'm sure of it.

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Yeah.

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Um, but you know, I mean, I think, I
didn't know what marine biology was

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when I was younger, but I had this
fantasy of what I thought it was.

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Right.

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And, and so I. I grew up just trying
to figure out what I wanted to do.

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I knew that I loved to be outside.

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I knew that I, I loved to splash
around the ponds and, and lakes and,

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and try to basically, um, figure
out what my, my curiosity was.

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And I go out there looking
for frogs, looking for lizard,

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looking for fish, whatever.

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Um, and so sort of as I progressed through
school, through, through my, my career,

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I stayed that track quite, quite firmly.

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I, at some point during undergrad was
pre-med and thought maybe I'd go the

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medical route, but I always had Biology
corn center to what I was interested in.

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And I had an internship working
on, um, and, and fish ecology in

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the Great Lakes Lake Michigan in
undergrad, which then I took a job

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in doing that after I, I graduated.

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So that really sort of
like got me interested in.

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Understanding in that case, invasive
species impact on native fish

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populations, um, was a big one and
continues to be in the Great Lakes

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as it is in the marine environment.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so I follow that path.

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I had an incredible advisor then that
really got me hooked on fish ecology.

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And my background is, by the way, even
though we're talking about sharks,

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my, my background is very broad.

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I'm, I consider myself more of a
marine biologist fish ecologist.

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Right.

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Um, and I dabble in a lot of different
things under the umbrella of sort

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of conservation human impacts.

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And so I started following that,
that path I think in at some point.

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And I can remember a few instances during,
especially my undergraduate, um, part of

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my education where I just really started
to see some things going on around me.

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Um, you know, roads being constructed,
forest being torn down, um, pollution

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that you could very readily see.

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And I really started to question what
our impacts were on the environment.

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And that's really what.

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Uh, inspired me to follow the path
that I'm on, and I've never really

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been able to figure out exactly what
my focus and ecosystem has been.

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So I've done wetland research,
I've done great lakes research.

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I've spent a lot of time now in my, uh,
master's, PhD, um, and beyond in, in

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the marine world working on big fish.

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Uh, my PhD work was on Goliath
grouper, which of course I worked

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around sharks most of the time
I was working with that species.

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So it was a pretty easy segue into
my, um, my current role, um, where the

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last three to four years, I've been
running a shark lab now, so I've sort

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of done a lot of different things.

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Um, but it's always core and center
on, on marine conservation especially.

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Yeah, that's, it's, it's,
it's super interesting.

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I wanna dive in a little bit
more, but Brendan, let's get

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to know you a little bit.

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Why don't you just let us know who
you are and what you do and sort of

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how you got into this whole game.

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Yeah.

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Um, well my name's Brendan Towar.

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I'm, uh, I'm currently a postdoc
out at Scripps Institution

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of Oceanography, um, at UCSD.

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So I'm in San Diego.

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Love it out here.

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Um, I'm from Kentucky.

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Alright.

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Chris, couple Midwest guys.

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One of the same,

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what state is that?

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Um, so yeah, pretty similar like,
you know, from a landlocked state.

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Um, did not grow up on the ocean,
at least in the early years.

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In like early middle school.

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My mom moved to Florida and so then
I started spending summers, spring

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breaks, Christmas breaks, all that along
the Gulf Coast and Pensacola Beach.

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Um, and I was already swimming all
the time and fishing all the time.

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And so when she moved to Florida, that
all just kind of took the next step

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and I was doing that in the ocean,
fishing off the kayak and Right.

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Um.

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You know, fishing off piers a lot too.

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There's a big Pensacola
beach fishing pier.

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Um, and so I just became more and
more familiar with life in our oceans.

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Had a lot of really great, you know,
firsthand encounters with wildlife.

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Um, definitely I caught
a few sharks early on.

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Um, and I, I'd see how people would
interact with wildlife as well.

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You know, like on slow days on the
fishing pier there, people sometimes

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pull up shark suckers, which are
really cool fish that attach to, to

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big animals in the ocean like sharks
and get a free ride and a free meal.

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Um, and people would catch these
shark suckers and pull 'em up on

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the pier and then stick 'em against
the flagpole at the end of the

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pier, and they just dry out and die.

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And, you know, you, you start to see
stuff like that when you're like 12,

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13, you're like, man, I don't know
that, that's like, that's not right.

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Like, why are, why are we treating
other life on our planet in this way?

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Um, and so I guess I, I kept fishing.

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Um.

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For a while, you know, my fishing
ethics changed a lot over the years

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from like fully catch and release
to then fishing only to eat fish.

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Um, and I've definitely, I've gone even
further that direction over the years.

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Now I do more like, I much prefer
underwater photography or spearfishing.

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Um, but all that continued and, and
led me into a career in biology.

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Had some great professors in undergrad.

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I went to Furman University in South
Carolina, um, and one in particular

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got me really into wildlife ecology
and management through a program in

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New Mexico called the Wild Semester.

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So I actually worked with him on Mountain
Lions looking at Mountain Lion ecology.

226
00:11:18,765 --> 00:11:22,485
Um, a lot of camera trap work
and looking at their kill sites.

227
00:11:22,515 --> 00:11:25,275
We had a, a couple animals
collared and so Nice.

228
00:11:25,545 --> 00:11:28,064
You know, he, he dropped me
off at a wildlife refuge in

229
00:11:28,064 --> 00:11:29,024
the middle of New Mexico.

230
00:11:29,475 --> 00:11:30,615
I was probably 19.

231
00:11:30,975 --> 00:11:31,155
Yeah.

232
00:11:31,185 --> 00:11:32,954
Um, he dropped me off.

233
00:11:32,954 --> 00:11:37,035
I got a Chevy Blazer from the
Fish and Wildlife Service and a

234
00:11:37,035 --> 00:11:40,875
trailer, and I was just there for
like two months, three months.

235
00:11:41,475 --> 00:11:44,714
Basically looking at all the kill sites,
like looking at all the GPS points of

236
00:11:44,714 --> 00:11:48,255
mountain lions from the night before,
and then in the morning going and

237
00:11:48,255 --> 00:11:52,365
finding the places where they'd killed
something and breaking every rule, like

238
00:11:52,365 --> 00:11:56,145
crawling up to a dead animal killed
by mountain lion in the last 12 hours,

239
00:11:56,439 --> 00:12:01,995
dear God, by myself, taking samples of
the, of whatever it was, identifying

240
00:12:01,995 --> 00:12:04,334
it and looking at prey habitat use.

241
00:12:04,365 --> 00:12:08,474
So it, yeah, weirdly enough, all
those skills and all those tools that

242
00:12:08,474 --> 00:12:12,525
I've built out there in the desert,
looking at mountain lions, a lot of

243
00:12:12,525 --> 00:12:15,824
those same questions you can apply to
sharks and so I knew that whole time.

244
00:12:16,365 --> 00:12:19,155
This is fun, but I'm not,
not into the mosquitoes.

245
00:12:19,185 --> 00:12:20,834
I'm not that interested in the desert.

246
00:12:21,194 --> 00:12:23,714
Um, I gotta get to the
ocean as soon as I can.

247
00:12:24,135 --> 00:12:24,704
Um, love it.

248
00:12:24,944 --> 00:12:28,395
But it, it made me, you know, a lot of,
again, a lot of the same issues apply

249
00:12:28,395 --> 00:12:30,704
that face big terrestrial predators.

250
00:12:31,125 --> 00:12:34,875
Um, you know, whether that's
wildlife conflict with people or

251
00:12:34,875 --> 00:12:37,785
what, whatever else, there's so many
hunting and fishing, all these things.

252
00:12:37,790 --> 00:12:37,920
Mm-hmm.

253
00:12:38,260 --> 00:12:43,094
Um, and so that it really made me
interested in management and the, the

254
00:12:43,094 --> 00:12:47,355
intersection between like wildlife
ecology and management and how humans

255
00:12:47,355 --> 00:12:48,645
interact with the natural world.

256
00:12:48,645 --> 00:12:52,515
And so that's really guided all the
research I've done in the marine

257
00:12:52,515 --> 00:12:57,045
environment, um, on sharks ever since,
you know, primarily looking at bycatch.

258
00:12:57,405 --> 00:13:01,545
Um, my master's was on deep sea
bycatch mortality, uh, lots and

259
00:13:01,545 --> 00:13:03,375
lots of time spent in The Bahamas.

260
00:13:03,464 --> 00:13:04,005
Um.

261
00:13:04,065 --> 00:13:07,425
I'm studying everything from
like shallow shark species in the

262
00:13:07,425 --> 00:13:11,265
mangroves to some really cool deep
sea species Cuban dogfish and guer

263
00:13:11,265 --> 00:13:13,605
sharks offshore, like 800 meters down.

264
00:13:14,115 --> 00:13:16,845
Um, and so that's
really, that's continued.

265
00:13:16,845 --> 00:13:20,295
That led to a PhD at Florida
International, uh, focused

266
00:13:20,295 --> 00:13:21,675
on silky sharks primarily.

267
00:13:21,945 --> 00:13:22,095
Yeah.

268
00:13:22,125 --> 00:13:26,805
Um, and that was a perfect segue into
my postdoc here at Scripps where I,

269
00:13:27,075 --> 00:13:30,645
the first year was looking at silky
shark population structure in the

270
00:13:30,645 --> 00:13:34,485
Pacific, um, kind of split between
Scripps and the Nature Conservancy.

271
00:13:34,485 --> 00:13:34,545
Yeah.

272
00:13:34,905 --> 00:13:39,195
Um, and working with an RFMO, the, the
Inner American Tropical Tuna Commission.

273
00:13:39,555 --> 00:13:45,830
Um, and then since then, the next postdoc
is looking at, uh, toxins in commercially

274
00:13:45,830 --> 00:13:47,350
important seafood in Southern California.

275
00:13:47,505 --> 00:13:49,485
So focused on DDT and PCBs.

276
00:13:49,995 --> 00:13:54,015
So similar to lots of overlap with
Chris in all these weird ways.

277
00:13:54,405 --> 00:13:57,795
Um, but you know, you, you
bounce all over the place.

278
00:13:57,795 --> 00:13:59,385
There's nothing boring about this career.

279
00:13:59,775 --> 00:14:01,275
But it's actually pretty insane.

280
00:14:01,275 --> 00:14:05,084
And Brendan, I can talk at some point
about how we got to know each other, but

281
00:14:05,175 --> 00:14:08,505
it's the same kind of parallel story that
a lot of people tell, a lot of people that

282
00:14:08,505 --> 00:14:10,275
get into marine biology don't end up Yeah.

283
00:14:10,454 --> 00:14:13,515
Or, or, sorry, don't start
in, in origin of the ocean.

284
00:14:13,515 --> 00:14:16,694
They just have this fantasy and they,
they kind of live it out and figure out

285
00:14:16,694 --> 00:14:18,045
what that is throughout their career.

286
00:14:18,344 --> 00:14:22,125
'cause working in the Great Lakes,
same as Brendan, I was doing fish

287
00:14:22,125 --> 00:14:25,755
ecology stuff with a lot of the same
gear that I ended up applying to then

288
00:14:25,755 --> 00:14:27,615
my masters when I got to The Bahamas.

289
00:14:28,035 --> 00:14:31,035
Um, and a lot of the same questions
applied, and then I went back from my

290
00:14:31,035 --> 00:14:35,594
postdoc, um, at, at Purdue University
after my PhD and applied a lot of the

291
00:14:35,594 --> 00:14:38,655
same things that I learned from freshwater
to marine, back to freshwater again.

292
00:14:38,655 --> 00:14:43,064
So it really, um, you know, the
questions, I'm always a very

293
00:14:43,064 --> 00:14:44,385
question oriented person, right?

294
00:14:44,385 --> 00:14:46,605
Because like at the end of the
day, you can ask very similar

295
00:14:46,605 --> 00:14:48,074
questions in different places.

296
00:14:48,675 --> 00:14:51,735
Well, and and that's what a, that
was my next question to both of you.

297
00:14:51,740 --> 00:14:51,750
Um.

298
00:14:52,620 --> 00:14:56,400
And, and Chris, we can start off with
you in terms of what, what is, what are

299
00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,449
the, the, I know it probably changes
as you evolve as a scientist, but for

300
00:15:00,449 --> 00:15:03,599
now, like what is your driving question?

301
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:07,319
You know, you've, you've, you've
investigated multiple realms.

302
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,000
Um, Brendan, you have two.

303
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,810
What's your, and, and especially
looking at predators, um, what's your

304
00:15:12,810 --> 00:15:18,120
driving question that, that allows you
to experience all these different, uh,

305
00:15:18,270 --> 00:15:22,120
investigations and realms and science
and realms, like fresh water and, and

306
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,449
salt water to like, continue to drive?

307
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,180
Like, I wanna know more about this
question, but maybe with different species

308
00:15:27,180 --> 00:15:28,469
or maybe in a different environment?

309
00:15:29,610 --> 00:15:33,839
It's a great question and I, when
I reflect on that and which I

310
00:15:33,839 --> 00:15:39,660
do often, it really comes down
for me to living in a healthy,

311
00:15:39,660 --> 00:15:42,810
sustainable world ecosystem, right?

312
00:15:42,810 --> 00:15:45,870
So trying to, asking
questions surrounding.

313
00:15:46,574 --> 00:15:47,925
What makes a healthy ecosystem?

314
00:15:47,925 --> 00:15:50,505
What is a baseline that we
can, that we can compare to?

315
00:15:50,535 --> 00:15:51,645
Do we have a good baseline?

316
00:15:51,645 --> 00:15:54,525
Do we need to develop that
baseline in order to compare?

317
00:15:55,245 --> 00:16:00,165
Um, and those sorts of questions can
be asked in terrestrial marine and

318
00:16:00,224 --> 00:16:02,084
in fresh water aquatic environments.

319
00:16:02,084 --> 00:16:05,985
You know, what, what has been introduced
to this environment that has changed it?

320
00:16:06,135 --> 00:16:06,599
Um, a lot.

321
00:16:06,675 --> 00:16:09,015
You know, I've done a lot of
work with invasive species.

322
00:16:09,015 --> 00:16:10,334
I've done work with pollution.

323
00:16:10,785 --> 00:16:13,905
Um, my PhD was all, um, on
mercury toxicity and how does that

324
00:16:13,905 --> 00:16:15,525
impact the health of an animal?

325
00:16:15,704 --> 00:16:16,785
And then how do you scale that up?

326
00:16:16,785 --> 00:16:18,464
How does that affect the population?

327
00:16:18,464 --> 00:16:19,905
How does that affect the ecosystem?

328
00:16:20,505 --> 00:16:23,444
And so you can kind of tackle these
questions from different avenues.

329
00:16:23,449 --> 00:16:23,520
Right.

330
00:16:23,805 --> 00:16:26,175
Um, you know, overfishing iss a big one.

331
00:16:26,175 --> 00:16:28,665
I know Brendan, uh, focuses
on that a lot for his work.

332
00:16:28,724 --> 00:16:28,814
Yeah.

333
00:16:29,295 --> 00:16:34,605
And, and as a i, but also in species
like the Goliath grouper that up until

334
00:16:34,724 --> 00:16:37,035
recently was closed to, to fishing.

335
00:16:37,425 --> 00:16:39,855
What is the cause of
their population changes?

336
00:16:39,855 --> 00:16:42,645
Early on, we know it was overfishing,
but then it's habitat loss and

337
00:16:42,645 --> 00:16:43,905
destruction and it's pollution.

338
00:16:44,415 --> 00:16:49,155
Um, so oftentimes we can point to what
the major impact is, but then there's

339
00:16:49,155 --> 00:16:50,625
multiple other ones that trail from there.

340
00:16:50,625 --> 00:16:52,515
And trying to get back
to some equilibrium.

341
00:16:53,025 --> 00:16:57,585
But we can live sustainably within
our environment, but also we're

342
00:16:57,585 --> 00:16:58,815
stewards of the environment.

343
00:16:59,025 --> 00:16:59,595
We don't own it.

344
00:16:59,595 --> 00:17:00,195
We're part of it.

345
00:17:00,195 --> 00:17:00,490
Right, right.

346
00:17:00,495 --> 00:17:04,935
And, and we need to also, um, we
have the responsibility to manage

347
00:17:04,964 --> 00:17:07,065
ourselves is really what we're managing.

348
00:17:07,095 --> 00:17:11,415
And to do that responsibly, but you
need to understand the baseline ecology,

349
00:17:11,474 --> 00:17:15,255
um, side of things from an animal
in order to then build that up to

350
00:17:15,255 --> 00:17:17,355
ecosystem to how we, how we manage it.

351
00:17:17,355 --> 00:17:20,595
So, um, I think I've answered your
question, but generally those are

352
00:17:20,595 --> 00:17:23,444
the sorts of things that I think
about as healthy ecosystems and

353
00:17:23,444 --> 00:17:24,825
how do we, how do we understand it?

354
00:17:24,825 --> 00:17:25,454
How do we get there?

355
00:17:25,994 --> 00:17:26,474
That's amazing.

356
00:17:26,474 --> 00:17:27,645
And Brendan, how about yourself?

357
00:17:27,675 --> 00:17:28,575
Same question to you.

358
00:17:29,595 --> 00:17:30,765
Yeah, very similar.

359
00:17:30,825 --> 00:17:34,005
I think I've, uh, I think because of.

360
00:17:34,679 --> 00:17:36,389
My start as a fisherman.

361
00:17:36,389 --> 00:17:37,200
I think that's all.

362
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,090
Fishing has always been the focus.

363
00:17:39,090 --> 00:17:39,600
Mm-hmm.

364
00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:43,500
Um, you know, the main mission
being sustainable fishing.

365
00:17:44,010 --> 00:17:46,950
Um, so I'm, you know, I'm not
anti fishing by any means.

366
00:17:47,010 --> 00:17:50,820
Um, but if we could find the balance
that Chris is talking about, where

367
00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:55,620
we've got health ecosystems that
support people and allow for abundant

368
00:17:55,710 --> 00:17:57,254
wildlife, you know, that's, mm-hmm.

369
00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:58,050
That's the dream.

370
00:17:58,050 --> 00:18:02,010
And if you start there and work
backwards, what's the information that

371
00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:03,929
you need in order to achieve that?

372
00:18:04,439 --> 00:18:09,330
And so, for me, again, I think
like the, the personal experiences

373
00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:10,649
really drove this early on.

374
00:18:10,679 --> 00:18:15,750
Like, bycatch seemed like an issue
that we could really focus on with a

375
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:19,590
lot of people in agreement that we can
get rid of it, you know, like mm-hmm.

376
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:22,230
Nobody likes catching the wrong species.

377
00:18:22,530 --> 00:18:22,800
Right.

378
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:27,419
It takes up time, it ruins your gear,
you know, it's, you're not gonna eat it.

379
00:18:27,419 --> 00:18:28,169
There's no point.

380
00:18:28,169 --> 00:18:32,669
And so when I learned, I, I
saw that firsthand growing up.

381
00:18:32,669 --> 00:18:34,200
You know, like you're fishing for.

382
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:35,550
Whatever it is.

383
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,800
Like the slot limit red fish on the
flats in Pensacola, and you catch

384
00:18:40,860 --> 00:18:43,320
something outta season and you throw
it back and you're like, well, I

385
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,000
didn't wanna ruin that animal's day.

386
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:45,300
You know?

387
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:45,390
Right.

388
00:18:45,390 --> 00:18:48,540
And sometimes it doesn't make it,
sometimes it dies because you caught it.

389
00:18:48,540 --> 00:18:48,600
Yeah.

390
00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:53,250
And when you then extrapolate that out
to the enormous scale at which fisheries

391
00:18:53,250 --> 00:18:56,520
take place globally, and you're like,
man, we're killing so many sharks in

392
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,510
particular, um, and marine mammals
and all these species that aren't well

393
00:19:00,510 --> 00:19:02,940
suited to being caught in large numbers.

394
00:19:03,150 --> 00:19:03,240
Mm-hmm.

395
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,250
And they're dying accidentally.

396
00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:06,720
No one wants this to happen.

397
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,130
How can we solve that problem?

398
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,190
And then as you go back, you're
like, all right, well, we need

399
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:12,390
to know where these sharks go.

400
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:13,410
Where do they spend time?

401
00:19:13,410 --> 00:19:14,250
What are the places Yeah.

402
00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:15,810
Where we should be protecting them?

403
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,420
How do they react when
they're caught on a hook?

404
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:19,110
Why?

405
00:19:19,115 --> 00:19:19,165
Mm-hmm.

406
00:19:19,245 --> 00:19:21,510
Why do some species die when others don't?

407
00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:24,480
Then you get, like, you can
get really, really fine scale.

408
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,140
And, and I did in some studies getting
down into the physiology of it.

409
00:19:28,530 --> 00:19:32,580
Um, and then, you know, you're always
like zooming in, zooming out, maybe one.

410
00:19:32,925 --> 00:19:37,815
One year you're focused on blood chemistry
and physiology to figure out like, how can

411
00:19:37,815 --> 00:19:41,895
we predict mortality in this one species
based on how long it's on the hook.

412
00:19:42,405 --> 00:19:42,465
Yeah.

413
00:19:42,465 --> 00:19:47,955
And then the next year you're looking
at like extinction risk criteria across

414
00:19:47,955 --> 00:19:49,365
all these species in the Caribbean.

415
00:19:49,365 --> 00:19:53,745
And so it's, it's, it's been
challenging for me and still is,

416
00:19:53,745 --> 00:19:59,264
I think, to find exactly where my
knowledge and skills like best apply

417
00:19:59,295 --> 00:20:00,915
to solve some of these problems.

418
00:20:01,305 --> 00:20:05,175
Um, I'm definitely still in the early
career stage where I'm still trying

419
00:20:05,175 --> 00:20:07,245
to accumulate lots and lots of tools.

420
00:20:07,665 --> 00:20:11,685
Um, but looking forward, I'm much
more now than ever trying to think

421
00:20:11,685 --> 00:20:15,524
about how I can apply the things I've
picked up to have the most impact,

422
00:20:16,065 --> 00:20:20,295
um, for the benefit of the animals
and people and, and fisheries as well.

423
00:20:20,610 --> 00:20:20,850
I love it.

424
00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:21,840
I love it.

425
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,689
Those, those challenges
that Brendan speaks of.

426
00:20:24,689 --> 00:20:28,229
I, we, we talk about this a lot
and, and trying to figure out how to

427
00:20:28,229 --> 00:20:29,580
navigate this space that we're in.

428
00:20:29,580 --> 00:20:32,189
I mean, it's literally like,
like Brendan, I'm, I'm having

429
00:20:32,189 --> 00:20:36,149
some, uh, some conservation, you
know, minded issues right now.

430
00:20:36,149 --> 00:20:39,060
Like, you know, it almost becomes
this, this all encompassing thing

431
00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:41,610
that you can't sleep you, because
we're, we're putting all of our energy

432
00:20:41,610 --> 00:20:43,080
and effort into these questions.

433
00:20:43,260 --> 00:20:43,740
Of course.

434
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,550
And then at the end of the day, what
actually moves the needle, you know,

435
00:20:47,610 --> 00:20:49,590
um, it becomes a major challenge.

436
00:20:49,620 --> 00:20:52,530
'cause we could have all the science in
the world and then oftentimes we have way

437
00:20:52,530 --> 00:20:55,709
more than we need to make good management
decisions, but then you have to start

438
00:20:55,709 --> 00:20:59,370
playing this politics game or this, or
in the case that we might talk more about

439
00:20:59,370 --> 00:21:03,750
today, maybe it's storytelling that, that
we need to delve more into because, um,

440
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,979
you know, science is one major component
of this, um, this puzzle, this challenge.

441
00:21:07,979 --> 00:21:10,439
But there are so many other
things that I think we're both

442
00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:13,850
exploring in early career science
as early career scientists now too.

443
00:21:14,595 --> 00:21:14,885
Yeah.

444
00:21:14,890 --> 00:21:16,440
Yeah, I think, I think
that's really interesting.

445
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,860
It's just, it's funny, we're on the same
wavelength here because, um, I was gonna

446
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:22,590
ask, my next question was gonna be like,
you know, once you get the science and

447
00:21:22,590 --> 00:21:26,610
you understand the, you know, whatever
scale you're at, whether you're looking at

448
00:21:26,610 --> 00:21:31,620
blood physiology or whether you're looking
at ecosystem dynamics, is the goal,

449
00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:33,690
what's the goal of doing the research?

450
00:21:33,690 --> 00:21:36,900
Obviously it's to get that understanding
and to get, uh, a complete understanding

451
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:38,790
of what the, of what the topic is.

452
00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:41,850
But is there, when you look at
conservation as a whole, 'cause both

453
00:21:41,850 --> 00:21:46,770
of you're quite conservation focused,
is there, uh, is the goal of each

454
00:21:46,770 --> 00:21:52,530
research paper, not only to answer the
question, but also to help drive policy?

455
00:21:52,590 --> 00:21:57,840
Like, are you working with nonprofit
organizations or policy makers

456
00:21:58,110 --> 00:22:00,930
to be like, Hey, what do you,
what information do you need?

457
00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:04,350
I'll go, I'll go, like,
I have the same question.

458
00:22:04,350 --> 00:22:06,180
I'll go find it in this study.

459
00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:10,440
Like, are, is that the goal or is that
even now, like, now that you guys are,

460
00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:13,710
have been in, in the, in the game for
a little bit and you're like, okay.

461
00:22:14,370 --> 00:22:16,379
Like, I, I wanna do more.

462
00:22:16,379 --> 00:22:19,950
I want my study to have more of
an impact than it already has.

463
00:22:20,250 --> 00:22:21,150
How do I do this?

464
00:22:21,150 --> 00:22:21,990
Is that where you're at?

465
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:23,520
Or like, is, is policy?

466
00:22:23,850 --> 00:22:25,050
Are you, are you looking at policy?

467
00:22:25,260 --> 00:22:27,930
Are you looking at, you know, you
talked about politics, uh, talk

468
00:22:27,930 --> 00:22:29,129
about science, communication.

469
00:22:29,129 --> 00:22:31,830
Like where, like what avenue are you at?

470
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:34,830
And, and do you find this happening
with other colleagues of yours?

471
00:22:35,790 --> 00:22:39,389
I'm happy to answer that first, but
I've got an answer for that for sure.

472
00:22:39,389 --> 00:22:41,490
But I, I don't wanna keep
talking first before Brenda.

473
00:22:41,580 --> 00:22:41,879
Oh yeah.

474
00:22:41,945 --> 00:22:44,535
We'll, Brenda, I feel
like I, we'll go Brendan.

475
00:22:44,535 --> 00:22:47,370
This Brendan, did you wanna respond
to that first or do you want me to go?

476
00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:48,240
Sure.

477
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,150
I'm excited to hear about your
experience with Goliath Gruber.

478
00:22:51,150 --> 00:22:54,660
I assume that's what you're gonna
Yeah, but I'll, I'll start it off.

479
00:22:54,660 --> 00:22:56,610
It's an easy one for me 'cause
I've been in that Good job.

480
00:22:57,300 --> 00:22:57,660
Perfect.

481
00:22:57,660 --> 00:22:57,930
Yeah.

482
00:22:57,930 --> 00:23:00,629
Well that's, it's a perfect
case study and yeah, this exact

483
00:23:00,629 --> 00:23:04,110
question, but I would say I've gone,

484
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,960
I've always struggled, I think
with being motivated by doing

485
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,430
conservation, relevant work.

486
00:23:11,865 --> 00:23:14,510
Or work leading towards
sustainable fishing.

487
00:23:15,105 --> 00:23:21,075
I think as a grad student, especially
early on, it's very easy to see a

488
00:23:21,075 --> 00:23:24,375
potential project, realize you can
get funding for it, you can do it

489
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,855
in the right place, and you just,
you hit the ground running so fast.

490
00:23:27,945 --> 00:23:28,035
Mm-hmm.

491
00:23:28,335 --> 00:23:32,655
You do it and then you publish it,
and then you're like, well, two

492
00:23:32,655 --> 00:23:34,065
years later, what has this done?

493
00:23:34,065 --> 00:23:34,425
Really?

494
00:23:34,425 --> 00:23:35,475
I don't know, you know?

495
00:23:35,475 --> 00:23:35,565
Right.

496
00:23:35,565 --> 00:23:38,055
Like, did I achieve my initial objective?

497
00:23:38,175 --> 00:23:39,645
That's really hard to say.

498
00:23:40,245 --> 00:23:43,485
You might put a tiny piece of
useful information out there

499
00:23:43,485 --> 00:23:45,105
if the need arises for it.

500
00:23:45,555 --> 00:23:49,245
Like I'm thinking, my masters was all
on discard mortality of these deep

501
00:23:49,245 --> 00:23:53,745
seed bycatch species, and the shark
I focused on, well, a couple of 'em,

502
00:23:53,745 --> 00:23:55,485
but the main one was a Cuban dogfish.

503
00:23:56,205 --> 00:24:01,605
It's the number one bycatch species
in a couple of fisheries among Dogfish

504
00:24:01,725 --> 00:24:03,765
in the southeastern United States.

505
00:24:04,635 --> 00:24:09,195
Now there's a discard mortality rate
based on a long line capture scenario.

506
00:24:10,215 --> 00:24:11,445
Has anyone used it?

507
00:24:11,535 --> 00:24:12,135
No.

508
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:12,980
Mm-hmm.

509
00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:13,070
Mm-hmm.

510
00:24:14,085 --> 00:24:14,775
It's there.

511
00:24:14,775 --> 00:24:17,835
If someone wants to use it, if
someone ever does like a stock

512
00:24:17,835 --> 00:24:22,365
assessment for Cuban Dogfish in that
region, I'd assume that they would.

513
00:24:22,845 --> 00:24:26,415
It's been used in other studies
to inform this general problem

514
00:24:26,415 --> 00:24:28,395
globally of deep sea shark bycatch.

515
00:24:28,935 --> 00:24:33,165
But I, it's very difficult to pinpoint,
like, I, I asked this question, I

516
00:24:33,165 --> 00:24:36,105
answered it to the best of my ability,
and now it's achieved this thing.

517
00:24:36,585 --> 00:24:41,655
And so I think now I'm trying to come
at things from the opposite direction

518
00:24:42,075 --> 00:24:48,075
of like, if you wanna inform the policy
of some fishery management council,

519
00:24:48,585 --> 00:24:51,855
go to their meeting this year, see
what their research priorities are.

520
00:24:52,185 --> 00:24:56,865
I promise they've published them
in some convoluted PDF somewhere.

521
00:24:57,585 --> 00:24:59,745
Find that PDF and, and read it.

522
00:24:59,745 --> 00:25:03,855
And then say like, Hey, I'll, I'll
answer this question that you guys need.

523
00:25:03,855 --> 00:25:06,105
'cause nobody's got enough
time and, and funding.

524
00:25:06,615 --> 00:25:07,500
So if grad students can.

525
00:25:08,129 --> 00:25:08,310
There.

526
00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:10,830
I think that's a missing
connection in a lot of cases.

527
00:25:10,830 --> 00:25:10,889
Yeah.

528
00:25:10,889 --> 00:25:15,240
Where like those management bodies need
to almost put out a call every year of

529
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,540
like, we'd love for people to tackle
these questions and we've got all this

530
00:25:18,540 --> 00:25:23,070
data, but that's almost a whole job that
someone would have to create, you know?

531
00:25:23,580 --> 00:25:24,270
Um, in a way.

532
00:25:24,270 --> 00:25:24,780
Yeah.

533
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:25,889
Co completely agree.

534
00:25:25,889 --> 00:25:27,419
I mean, it's, it's definitely needed.

535
00:25:27,479 --> 00:25:28,740
Um, and it's something you'd learn.

536
00:25:28,740 --> 00:25:29,639
I completely agree.

537
00:25:29,639 --> 00:25:32,250
Like when I did my master's, you
know, I never thought about any

538
00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:35,459
kind of implications afterwards or
how it would be used afterwards.

539
00:25:35,459 --> 00:25:38,969
I was part of a larger project like in
at, for World Wildlife Fund, so that was

540
00:25:38,969 --> 00:25:43,199
just where my project was, but I didn't,
I didn't know what was gonna happen next.

541
00:25:43,199 --> 00:25:47,070
I never asked the questions because
that was more focused on just doing my

542
00:25:47,070 --> 00:25:48,629
masters and doing that little thing.

543
00:25:48,629 --> 00:25:52,080
And I think it would've been good
if I started to like open, like,

544
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,570
and you're young, you just wanna do
the work, but you gotta open your

545
00:25:54,570 --> 00:25:55,830
mind a little bit and just be like.

546
00:25:56,189 --> 00:25:57,240
What's going on in the world?

547
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:58,320
Why am I doing this?

548
00:25:58,324 --> 00:25:58,675
Mm-hmm.

549
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,770
And just ask those overarching
questions, those very high level

550
00:26:01,770 --> 00:26:04,350
questions where you're just like,
where is this gonna impact and how

551
00:26:04,350 --> 00:26:08,189
is this gonna impact in the, in the
real world after, after I leave?

552
00:26:08,220 --> 00:26:12,540
Or, or, you know, is this gonna help
somewhere in an island community or is

553
00:26:12,540 --> 00:26:16,560
this gonna help somewhere in Canada or
the US or in Europe or Africa or wherever?

554
00:26:16,830 --> 00:26:18,270
Uh, and then be able to do it that way.

555
00:26:18,629 --> 00:26:21,270
Um, but yeah, that was a
fantastic, fantastic answer.

556
00:26:21,270 --> 00:26:21,629
Chris.

557
00:26:21,629 --> 00:26:26,220
I, I want to hear the, the Goliath grouper
story because you, I, I assume you've

558
00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:27,659
been working on that for quite some time.

559
00:26:28,830 --> 00:26:33,270
Yeah, I, um, I think it's interesting
the point that, that Brendan brings up.

560
00:26:33,270 --> 00:26:37,590
'cause I think ultimately what we all
want as scientists, as students, as

561
00:26:37,649 --> 00:26:41,399
whatever, when we publish a paper,
it's almost always aligned in a paper.

562
00:26:41,399 --> 00:26:44,340
Like, you know, this, we're trying
to push this towards management,

563
00:26:44,340 --> 00:26:45,720
like management implications.

564
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:45,810
Yeah.

565
00:26:45,810 --> 00:26:49,139
We all use these lines in our papers,
but do they actually get used for that?

566
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,640
That direct, uh, management
application, um, oftentimes, no.

567
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:54,240
You know, right.

568
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,900
A lot of times we put years of
work into a paper and we're lucky

569
00:26:57,900 --> 00:26:59,700
to have it read a dozen times.

570
00:26:59,700 --> 00:27:02,130
You know, if, if you have
higher impact work yeah.

571
00:27:02,130 --> 00:27:03,270
It'll get cited a bunch.

572
00:27:03,330 --> 00:27:06,360
Um, but that, that's the question.

573
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:06,630
Right.

574
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:10,560
And, um, in terms of like thinking
about funding and projects, before

575
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,730
I get into goth grouper, that's
always been a big question for me.

576
00:27:14,730 --> 00:27:16,675
And when I was in my PhD, I
applied for a lot of grants.

577
00:27:16,675 --> 00:27:16,955
Mm-hmm.

578
00:27:17,035 --> 00:27:19,680
Got good marks and didn't get
funding for, for the big ones I

579
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,210
applied for mostly through Noah.

580
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:26,250
But what I was trying to do, and I think
my, what I was missing then was I was

581
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,640
trying to take the project that I really
wanted to work on and fit it into the,

582
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,620
into the mold of what they were funding.

583
00:27:31,620 --> 00:27:31,890
Right.

584
00:27:31,890 --> 00:27:35,250
And, and that you can be a good writer,
have good questions, and oftentimes

585
00:27:35,250 --> 00:27:36,600
it doesn't, doesn't quite make it.

586
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,790
So the opposite of that,
that Brendan brought up is.

587
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,480
You know, you see what's being funded
or you go to these meetings and then you

588
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,100
develop questions, projects around that.

589
00:27:44,100 --> 00:27:47,189
Oftentimes those are probably, that's
probably a better recipe for funding.

590
00:27:47,370 --> 00:27:52,889
Um, just as an example with Goliath
grouper, I never sought out to, to

591
00:27:52,889 --> 00:27:57,510
keep working with, you know, large
megafauna, um, charismatic species.

592
00:27:57,510 --> 00:28:00,270
But it's kind of just been
a path that I've followed.

593
00:28:00,270 --> 00:28:07,949
And Goliath gruper to me, became
such a, a giant in the, um, policy

594
00:28:07,949 --> 00:28:10,980
conservation ecology world because
we didn't know much about them.

595
00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:11,429
Mm-hmm.

596
00:28:11,699 --> 00:28:17,699
Um, a lot of contention around the species
and big fisheries implications and, and a

597
00:28:17,699 --> 00:28:22,350
lot of stakeholder involvement between the
dive community, um, and, and fishermen.

598
00:28:22,469 --> 00:28:27,000
Um, and, and I can give some examples,
but, but to me, why I got so excited

599
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,629
and, and why I was worked so hard
in my PhD was because it fit all of

600
00:28:30,629 --> 00:28:32,040
these things that I was interested in.

601
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,850
And to Goliath group, it became
the model organism, um, model

602
00:28:35,850 --> 00:28:37,199
species for me to really.

603
00:28:37,980 --> 00:28:40,980
Hone in on a lot of these questions
that have plagued me my entire career.

604
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,520
And so I, I, I took that to task and
did what I could and learned from

605
00:28:44,910 --> 00:28:49,080
some two incredible, um, PhD advisors,
Dr. Um, Felicia Coleman and Dr. Chris

606
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,760
Koenig, who were giants in the field.

607
00:28:50,910 --> 00:28:51,840
Our giants in the field.

608
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:51,900
Yeah.

609
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,360
Um, and so to keep it brief, you know,
what was really going on is the, they're

610
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,350
over fish to extinction and, um, to new
extinction levels and, um, throughout

611
00:29:01,350 --> 00:29:03,030
their entire range, right from, yeah.

612
00:29:03,030 --> 00:29:05,879
Um, the Atlantic down, the
Caribbean, down, um, all the

613
00:29:05,879 --> 00:29:07,650
way from Florida to Brazil.

614
00:29:08,459 --> 00:29:11,550
Theoretically to the west coast
of Africa, even though, um, only

615
00:29:11,550 --> 00:29:15,000
anecdotal, only anecdotal reports
existed, they still occur there.

616
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,389
So this giant fish that forms
these large fishing aggregations,

617
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:20,879
and we all know fishing
aggregations often get fished down.

618
00:29:21,060 --> 00:29:23,580
Um, and so they were targets of that.

619
00:29:23,850 --> 00:29:27,689
And on top of that, they're large,
they don't move much and they

620
00:29:27,689 --> 00:29:29,189
have very high site fidelity.

621
00:29:29,189 --> 00:29:32,399
So they're really easy to spear fish,
really easy to target for fishers.

622
00:29:32,699 --> 00:29:34,530
And they got, their
levels got driven down.

623
00:29:34,830 --> 00:29:38,340
Well, the work that Chris Konik Andia
had done as I was leading into that lab

624
00:29:38,340 --> 00:29:42,540
was they were basically discovering and
working towards just understanding the

625
00:29:42,540 --> 00:29:45,990
basic biology of this fish that almost
nothing was known about before 1990.

626
00:29:47,129 --> 00:29:51,570
And, and as that the population started
to rebuild once they were completely

627
00:29:51,570 --> 00:29:54,540
closed off, 'cause there was no sense
in having a fishery for them anymore,

628
00:29:54,899 --> 00:29:57,870
you got all these major conservation
impacts that started coming in.

629
00:29:57,929 --> 00:30:04,350
Um, you know, fishermen, um, disgruntled
over catches being stolen, um, as

630
00:30:04,350 --> 00:30:06,570
especially the larger adults off on reefs.

631
00:30:07,379 --> 00:30:10,379
Um, you know, you have all the
issues of habitat loss destruction.

632
00:30:10,379 --> 00:30:11,850
They use mangrove habitats.

633
00:30:11,879 --> 00:30:17,340
You've got, um, constant commission
FWC meetings to talk about whether

634
00:30:17,340 --> 00:30:19,679
or not to reopen this fishery
that's been closed for 30 years.

635
00:30:19,679 --> 00:30:22,889
So that's where I start to insert, I,
I'm working on the population levels

636
00:30:22,889 --> 00:30:24,810
of the, of these fish as they recover.

637
00:30:25,439 --> 00:30:28,949
I'm looking at mercury toxicity, how
that affects their, their, um, their

638
00:30:28,949 --> 00:30:33,689
reproductive capacity, their, their
individual health and population health,

639
00:30:34,050 --> 00:30:35,340
and tying this all into management.

640
00:30:35,340 --> 00:30:38,969
So, and then I'm also bringing these
to, to commission meetings with

641
00:30:38,969 --> 00:30:42,600
my advisors and we'd go in and we
would, we would talk about the, the

642
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,600
biology of the animal that they can't
withstand heavy fishing pressure.

643
00:30:46,770 --> 00:30:48,535
But you've got all these voices coming in.

644
00:30:48,535 --> 00:30:52,170
You've got, you know, fish, some
very conservative fishing, um mm-hmm.

645
00:30:52,410 --> 00:30:55,080
Members of the community coming in and
saying, we need to call these animals.

646
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:55,650
We need to kill 'em.

647
00:30:55,650 --> 00:30:58,650
They're ruining the reefs,
they're stealing our catches.

648
00:30:58,650 --> 00:31:00,720
And then you've got the dive
community saying, we need these.

649
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,140
They're driving, you know, millions
of dollars of revenue for our, for us.

650
00:31:04,140 --> 00:31:06,360
And then I'm coming in as a
scientist being like, okay,

651
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:07,980
how do you dance this line of?

652
00:31:07,980 --> 00:31:08,070
Mm-hmm.

653
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:11,855
And I know, Andrew, you've talked about
this before in, um, in an earlier podcast.

654
00:31:12,060 --> 00:31:15,000
How do you dance this line as
a scientist, staying unbiased,

655
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,590
but also speak up for science?

656
00:31:16,590 --> 00:31:16,650
Yeah.

657
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:19,470
And that's really the direction
that I found myself going

658
00:31:19,470 --> 00:31:20,550
in more and more and more.

659
00:31:20,550 --> 00:31:22,500
And we've written marine policy pieces.

660
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:24,570
We've written open letters
to the commissioners.

661
00:31:24,810 --> 00:31:28,470
I've met with individual commissioners
to talk about the biology, how they

662
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:31,560
can't withstand catches, why all
the misinformation being brought

663
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:32,820
to them by the public is untruth.

664
00:31:32,820 --> 00:31:34,050
They're not destroying the reefs.

665
00:31:34,055 --> 00:31:34,215
Yeah.

666
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,870
They're actually increasing diversity
and abundance of other fishes.

667
00:31:37,395 --> 00:31:40,965
Um, but these negative interactions that
people have, just like they do sharks,

668
00:31:40,965 --> 00:31:44,775
which is why that's such a parallel is the
depredation issue going on with sharks.

669
00:31:44,775 --> 00:31:47,085
And the keys right now is the same
thing that I've been dealing with

670
00:31:47,085 --> 00:31:48,645
Goliath Cooper my entire career.

671
00:31:48,645 --> 00:31:48,705
Yeah.

672
00:31:49,125 --> 00:31:54,555
And so trying to dispel misinformation,
misperceptions, bring this to the

673
00:31:54,555 --> 00:31:59,565
commission, write publications that
deal with the policy pieces speaking

674
00:31:59,565 --> 00:32:04,905
on top, on, on behalf of, um, you know,
conservative management policies being

675
00:32:05,115 --> 00:32:06,525
looking at the best available science.

676
00:32:06,525 --> 00:32:08,025
'cause not all science is the same either.

677
00:32:08,025 --> 00:32:08,235
Right?

678
00:32:08,235 --> 00:32:08,715
Keep that in mind.

679
00:32:08,715 --> 00:32:09,375
No, for sure.

680
00:32:09,405 --> 00:32:12,585
Um, and, and so that, I found
myself in the middle of that a

681
00:32:12,585 --> 00:32:17,115
lot and, and trying to navigate
where my energy was best suited.

682
00:32:17,115 --> 00:32:21,254
So going to the commission meetings
and giving talks there, it's been

683
00:32:21,254 --> 00:32:25,095
good, but also exhausting and of,
and oftentimes maybe not worth

684
00:32:25,095 --> 00:32:26,175
the energy and effort that takes.

685
00:32:26,175 --> 00:32:30,285
So I think as Brendan and I consider
our path moving forward, um, and, and

686
00:32:30,285 --> 00:32:33,645
other colleagues as well, and even in
my position as director of research.

687
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:37,440
In conservation for Ocean First Institute,
it's like, how much time do you spend

688
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,430
doing this versus that, versus education
versus research, versus trying to

689
00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:45,270
walk this tight policy line and not
lose your credibility as a scientist.

690
00:32:45,270 --> 00:32:48,960
And by the way, get into Netflix
series and try to talk about science

691
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,760
and, and be a public communicator.

692
00:32:51,060 --> 00:32:55,440
Trying to basically have this positive
conservation impact going all these

693
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,410
different directions, like what is worth
the energy and effort that it takes.

694
00:32:58,860 --> 00:32:59,910
And it also reality tv.

695
00:32:59,910 --> 00:33:03,535
Chris the Bachelor baby, we
gotta get into the Bachelor.

696
00:33:03,535 --> 00:33:04,055
That's the way you do it.

697
00:33:05,565 --> 00:33:06,055
Love Island.

698
00:33:06,735 --> 00:33:09,480
I think it's interesting because like,
you know, the way, the way you just

699
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,390
talked about it and, and Brandon we
talked, you guys have talked both

700
00:33:12,390 --> 00:33:16,830
about this is you, you're one person
trying to do all these one, all these

701
00:33:16,830 --> 00:33:21,600
things like we're scientists, we study
science, we study the ocean, we look

702
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,200
at trends, you know, whether they're
positive or negative or, or just neutral.

703
00:33:26,084 --> 00:33:27,104
That's what we're doing.

704
00:33:27,104 --> 00:33:30,044
And here we are finding ourselves
and doing, trying to, doing,

705
00:33:30,135 --> 00:33:31,185
trying to do everything else.

706
00:33:31,395 --> 00:33:34,814
And I think the biggest pushback, I know
when I speak to scientists is there's

707
00:33:34,814 --> 00:33:38,504
no financial incentive to do all this.

708
00:33:38,504 --> 00:33:42,284
It's the passion that we have
because of the way we grew up.

709
00:33:42,405 --> 00:33:45,854
You know, bringing fishing, you know,
Chris being around the Great Lakes and

710
00:33:45,854 --> 00:33:47,235
seeing the changes that have happened.

711
00:33:48,044 --> 00:33:49,455
This is what we care about.

712
00:33:49,485 --> 00:33:53,985
I think we're very, it is a very different
field when you go into wildlife, oceans,

713
00:33:54,284 --> 00:33:58,844
whatever that might be compared to like
maybe finance, where, you know, your

714
00:33:58,844 --> 00:34:04,245
passion is really shown through, uh, this,
in, in a way of like, we need to protect,

715
00:34:04,245 --> 00:34:06,705
not try and make the most money possible.

716
00:34:06,705 --> 00:34:10,455
It's, we need to protect, but you
also have to do your basic job.

717
00:34:10,514 --> 00:34:12,554
And sometimes that's just science.

718
00:34:12,554 --> 00:34:13,605
It's considered science.

719
00:34:13,609 --> 00:34:15,464
So it's, it's a very different
thing that, because we always

720
00:34:15,464 --> 00:34:16,634
just like, well, we gotta do this.

721
00:34:16,634 --> 00:34:17,864
Like, we gotta help.

722
00:34:17,864 --> 00:34:18,824
But it's, it's almost like.

723
00:34:19,380 --> 00:34:22,830
There's a lot of organizations out
there that, you know, they are,

724
00:34:22,830 --> 00:34:27,239
they do amazing things with a small
team, uh, just like Ocean First.

725
00:34:27,509 --> 00:34:29,400
Uh, but they, you know,
you can't do everything.

726
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,819
You know, you've gotta do what you
can do because of a small team.

727
00:34:32,819 --> 00:34:36,900
And, and, uh, and obviously I'm not
picking on, on Ocean First, this is a,

728
00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:41,609
this is nonprofits in any kind of wildlife
management is, you can't do everything.

729
00:34:41,609 --> 00:34:43,679
You can't do the, the
science communication.

730
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:47,730
You can't do the, the lobbying
or, or working with policy makers.

731
00:34:47,730 --> 00:34:49,859
You can't, and doing the
science and everything, it's

732
00:34:49,859 --> 00:34:51,150
like, it's a hard thing to do.

733
00:34:51,150 --> 00:34:53,190
And then getting funding to
build an organization like

734
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:55,049
that is not, uh, easy as well.

735
00:34:55,049 --> 00:34:56,699
It's, it's, it's a difficult thing to do.

736
00:34:56,699 --> 00:34:59,130
So I think it's really interesting
that we've identified that.

737
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,390
Um, but then we also do these things,
which is like, kind of crazy, like

738
00:35:03,390 --> 00:35:07,200
all the Sharks, you know, the, the
Netflix special that both of you're in.

739
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,589
And one of the reasons why you're
here is, is you, you do this as a,

740
00:35:10,620 --> 00:35:13,410
like, what was the reason why you,
like, were you approached to do

741
00:35:13,410 --> 00:35:14,850
this and who was approached first?

742
00:35:14,850 --> 00:35:17,160
And um, and like how did this all happen?

743
00:35:17,805 --> 00:35:20,925
Well, first, first there are,
well, I'll just add to the point

744
00:35:20,925 --> 00:35:22,995
that you were just making, they're
blurred lines between our personal

745
00:35:22,995 --> 00:35:24,420
lives and our, and our work lives.

746
00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:24,900
Absolutely.

747
00:35:24,945 --> 00:35:28,665
And those, that is the biggest
difficulty, I think, for any of us Yeah.

748
00:35:28,665 --> 00:35:31,965
Is like, where do I draw the
line with just OFI, ocean First

749
00:35:31,965 --> 00:35:33,705
Institute and what I do personally.

750
00:35:34,065 --> 00:35:34,305
Yeah.

751
00:35:34,305 --> 00:35:36,555
And what's worth the
effort and to continue on.

752
00:35:36,555 --> 00:35:39,435
So that becomes the sort
of exhaustion that happens.

753
00:35:39,465 --> 00:35:43,485
Um, 'cause yeah, with, with, with limited
funds and in small operations, you have to

754
00:35:43,485 --> 00:35:45,675
limit what you're doing or you burn out.

755
00:35:45,675 --> 00:35:47,775
And, and that's what we're
all a victim of a lot.

756
00:35:47,895 --> 00:35:50,775
Um, for sure for the show
though, as, oh, go ahead Brendan.

757
00:35:51,765 --> 00:35:56,355
I'll just add that we also have to
be very careful with the line between

758
00:35:56,355 --> 00:36:01,780
scientific credibility and then
more advocacy style work, you know?

759
00:36:01,780 --> 00:36:02,060
Mm-hmm.

760
00:36:02,145 --> 00:36:08,325
And Chris and I come from, like, our
academic training has been very parallel.

761
00:36:08,325 --> 00:36:10,515
Like we've come from
labs that are heavy on.

762
00:36:11,055 --> 00:36:16,064
Um, you know, I'd say all of our advisors
are like naturalists before anything else.

763
00:36:16,064 --> 00:36:18,404
Like true I theologist type folks.

764
00:36:18,404 --> 00:36:18,464
Yeah.

765
00:36:19,004 --> 00:36:25,095
Um, and so we wanna stay true to the
science at all times, but also like

766
00:36:25,095 --> 00:36:28,904
at, at times, like Chris said, you
do have to advocate for the science.

767
00:36:28,904 --> 00:36:31,575
And so that's been a challenge
as well, is trying to figure out

768
00:36:31,575 --> 00:36:37,035
where our best place is among those
different genres of, um, I guess

769
00:36:37,035 --> 00:36:39,254
science or conservation more broadly.

770
00:36:39,645 --> 00:36:44,355
And the Netflix show is, uh, that's
a whole new, a whole new genre.

771
00:36:45,674 --> 00:36:46,064
Yeah.

772
00:36:46,064 --> 00:36:48,855
And so with that, well, it's kinda like
reality tv if you really think about it.

773
00:36:48,855 --> 00:36:53,115
It's, it's an absolute from a reality
tv it was actually quite refreshing,

774
00:36:53,415 --> 00:36:55,305
uh, from a reality TV perspective.

775
00:36:55,335 --> 00:36:57,314
Uh, I thought that was cool,
which I'll go to a bit, but Yeah.

776
00:36:57,314 --> 00:36:57,944
Chris, sorry, go ahead.

777
00:36:57,944 --> 00:36:58,365
I cut you off.

778
00:36:58,365 --> 00:36:58,964
I apologize.

779
00:36:59,265 --> 00:37:01,395
No, I mean, that's why
these are fun conversations.

780
00:37:01,395 --> 00:37:02,835
We've all got something to say.

781
00:37:02,895 --> 00:37:08,535
Um, we, you know, Brendan and I.
Made a decision to, after we had

782
00:37:08,535 --> 00:37:13,005
been contacted by the producer of the
show, um, we had both been interviewed

783
00:37:13,185 --> 00:37:14,565
separately and, and together.

784
00:37:14,565 --> 00:37:17,745
And we had a long deliberation after this.

785
00:37:17,745 --> 00:37:20,865
'cause we, you know, we asked, it almost
became our interview of 'em, right?

786
00:37:20,865 --> 00:37:23,565
And that's how I, it felt, and I think
that makes for a good conversation.

787
00:37:23,565 --> 00:37:27,134
Part of why we trusted the producers
on this, as they were willing to, um,

788
00:37:27,134 --> 00:37:28,455
let us arrow out all of our concerns.

789
00:37:28,455 --> 00:37:31,605
You know, Brendan and I, um,
were very concerned with our,

790
00:37:31,694 --> 00:37:33,525
uh, scientific reputations.

791
00:37:34,035 --> 00:37:36,315
We're not quick to sign up
for these sorts of things.

792
00:37:36,345 --> 00:37:40,694
Um, but it was clear that they wanted
two people with, you know, credibility

793
00:37:40,694 --> 00:37:44,115
in the science field to be a part
of the show, namely with their PhDs.

794
00:37:44,145 --> 00:37:45,285
Hence our name, shark Docs.

795
00:37:45,285 --> 00:37:48,975
We, we set ourselves apart
with that, um, purposely.

796
00:37:50,415 --> 00:37:52,905
And we wanted to bring that to the
table, but we had to do it appropriately.

797
00:37:52,905 --> 00:37:55,905
And we had to really figure out
for ourselves how much we were

798
00:37:55,905 --> 00:38:00,465
willing to, to put ourselves out
there in this reality style TV show.

799
00:38:00,495 --> 00:38:03,555
Um, and what that might mean for
us personally, for our careers.

800
00:38:04,065 --> 00:38:07,905
Um, it was a real consideration and,
and a lot of it we doubted, right?

801
00:38:07,905 --> 00:38:13,305
And, and we got this long contract that
was basically a, a carbon, um, print

802
00:38:13,305 --> 00:38:15,315
of what the Bachelor would see, right?

803
00:38:15,315 --> 00:38:15,405
Mm-hmm.

804
00:38:15,945 --> 00:38:19,440
You know, basically this very
scary document saying We own you.

805
00:38:19,980 --> 00:38:21,975
And, and we pushed back a lot.

806
00:38:21,975 --> 00:38:26,535
We pushed back for, for a long, long
time for, and not that we got a huge

807
00:38:26,535 --> 00:38:28,935
amount of ground with it, but enough
where we were comfortable, right.

808
00:38:28,935 --> 00:38:30,675
Because it was, we were
up against Netflix, right?

809
00:38:30,675 --> 00:38:30,735
Yeah.

810
00:38:31,125 --> 00:38:34,155
Um, but they've gotta protect their
own too, and, and their production.

811
00:38:34,155 --> 00:38:34,305
Yeah.

812
00:38:34,425 --> 00:38:35,295
Um, concept.

813
00:38:35,295 --> 00:38:36,345
So we, we understood that.

814
00:38:36,735 --> 00:38:38,625
So we, we worked with
it as much as we could.

815
00:38:38,685 --> 00:38:40,965
Um, weren't really sure.

816
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:45,450
Up until, I think like weeks
before, like what we were gonna do.

817
00:38:45,450 --> 00:38:48,705
Like we literally didn't sign the
contract till before, but, um, I, I think

818
00:38:48,705 --> 00:38:50,100
we got, it was a week, A week before.

819
00:38:50,225 --> 00:38:51,060
Before the first flight.

820
00:38:51,065 --> 00:38:51,145
It was.

821
00:38:51,255 --> 00:38:51,545
Yeah.

822
00:38:52,015 --> 00:38:52,305
Yeah.

823
00:38:53,485 --> 00:38:56,580
Did you guys, the flight, was that
close, like you, like it was upcoming,

824
00:38:56,580 --> 00:39:01,230
you're like, do we do, like, what
was your biggest, um, like sticking

825
00:39:01,230 --> 00:39:02,700
point of, of actually doing the show?

826
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:04,710
Like what was the big worry for you guys?

827
00:39:06,660 --> 00:39:08,280
For me it was credibility.

828
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:09,420
Just like we're saying.

829
00:39:09,420 --> 00:39:09,480
Yeah.

830
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:10,500
I mean in, yeah.

831
00:39:10,650 --> 00:39:11,580
In our fields.

832
00:39:12,450 --> 00:39:14,220
Your credibility is kind of everything.

833
00:39:14,250 --> 00:39:16,620
Like your reputation is worth a lot.

834
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,630
And Chris and I are, we're still, I
don't know, in the first third of our

835
00:39:21,630 --> 00:39:27,450
career, maybe, um, maybe I still call
myself an early career researcher,

836
00:39:28,470 --> 00:39:30,840
so I don't know when that ends.

837
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,065
And it feels like, yeah, I think I'm,
I'm teetering at the edge of that.

838
00:39:34,065 --> 00:39:34,945
More than you're Yeah.

839
00:39:34,945 --> 00:39:35,730
Just a few years ahead.

840
00:39:36,375 --> 00:39:36,665
Yeah.

841
00:39:38,009 --> 00:39:43,440
But it's still, it's, that's funny
because like all of our friends

842
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,170
obviously are like senior people
in their companies or whatever.

843
00:39:46,170 --> 00:39:48,390
Meanwhile it's like, oh,
I'm a postdoc at Scripps.

844
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:49,170
Like, yeah.

845
00:39:49,170 --> 00:39:53,430
You know, uh, but like reality
is I've been doing this same

846
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:55,620
job since I was like 19.

847
00:39:56,009 --> 00:39:56,130
Mm-hmm.

848
00:39:56,370 --> 00:39:59,759
You know, like it's, we have a lot
of experience and we've invested

849
00:39:59,759 --> 00:40:01,440
our entire lives into this career.

850
00:40:01,770 --> 00:40:05,279
And so at a time when our
careers are going well.

851
00:40:05,805 --> 00:40:08,595
We're like, yeah, we're publishing,
like we're hitting all the benchmarks

852
00:40:08,595 --> 00:40:12,825
to, I don't know, a couple years
from now in my case, like, I don't

853
00:40:12,825 --> 00:40:14,355
know, maybe I want to be a professor.

854
00:40:14,384 --> 00:40:14,774
Okay.

855
00:40:14,835 --> 00:40:17,174
Three years from now, maybe
that's attainable somewhere.

856
00:40:17,504 --> 00:40:17,714
Yeah.

857
00:40:17,714 --> 00:40:20,475
Do I wanna risk everything on?

858
00:40:20,475 --> 00:40:20,654
Yeah.

859
00:40:20,654 --> 00:40:22,935
Like some show that I
have no control over.

860
00:40:23,145 --> 00:40:28,484
Like they can just, for example,
each, each place, right is three days

861
00:40:28,484 --> 00:40:31,995
of filming from morning till night
where you're searching for sharks.

862
00:40:31,995 --> 00:40:36,105
And at any given time there's like
multiple cameras on every team.

863
00:40:36,105 --> 00:40:41,205
And so you're looking at just hundreds
of hours of footage per location that get

864
00:40:41,205 --> 00:40:43,424
whittled down to the 45 minute episode.

865
00:40:44,024 --> 00:40:48,285
And so you can imagine the breadth of
humanity that's experienced across four

866
00:40:48,285 --> 00:40:52,305
teams and like eight weeks of traveling
the world with one group of people.

867
00:40:52,335 --> 00:40:55,964
Like imagine a family vacation
going for eight weeks, you know?

868
00:40:56,024 --> 00:40:56,504
Oh yeah.

869
00:40:56,504 --> 00:40:58,330
You're people have very
strong personalities.

870
00:40:59,535 --> 00:41:00,254
Yeah.

871
00:41:00,285 --> 00:41:03,674
Like interacting with other people,
getting that everything's filmed.

872
00:41:03,674 --> 00:41:04,004
Right.

873
00:41:04,004 --> 00:41:04,605
And um.

874
00:41:05,115 --> 00:41:07,095
And we just didn't know
what this was gonna be.

875
00:41:07,095 --> 00:41:08,865
This is also the first of its kind, right?

876
00:41:08,895 --> 00:41:13,125
We like a reality show, competition
show shark education, friendly.

877
00:41:13,125 --> 00:41:16,035
Like everything they pitched
to us we're like, sounds great.

878
00:41:16,395 --> 00:41:16,545
Yeah.

879
00:41:16,545 --> 00:41:20,025
But what, we have no example of what
this is actually going to look like.

880
00:41:20,025 --> 00:41:24,045
So we still in the end, had to take
a massive leap of faith and trust

881
00:41:24,045 --> 00:41:26,265
the producers and be like, okay.

882
00:41:26,265 --> 00:41:29,025
And then Brendan and I were like,
okay, we, we stay true to ourselves.

883
00:41:29,025 --> 00:41:31,845
We don't try to act 'cause we're
not actors, we're scientists, right?

884
00:41:32,265 --> 00:41:37,275
And, um, and we just, you know, we're
ourselves and we, we stick to within

885
00:41:37,275 --> 00:41:41,055
guidelines of like, you know, trying not
to lose our cool and, and, and all the

886
00:41:41,055 --> 00:41:42,345
things we would do in our normal lives.

887
00:41:42,345 --> 00:41:45,555
And I think that's what we,
we stuck to and did very well.

888
00:41:45,585 --> 00:41:49,575
Um, not that we didn't falter
at times, but that was human,

889
00:41:49,634 --> 00:41:50,985
you know, nature for us too.

890
00:41:51,435 --> 00:41:53,295
Um, but at the end we
stayed true to ourselves.

891
00:41:53,295 --> 00:41:56,384
I think, you know, we didn't try to
push any narrative or do anything,

892
00:41:56,445 --> 00:42:00,285
um, and in, and in some ways it maybe
made us less interesting on screen.

893
00:42:00,705 --> 00:42:03,509
But that's what we are willing to
do and that's what we, we stuck to.

894
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:08,730
Well, I'll tell you like the one thing
that I, when I first heard about it, um,

895
00:42:08,940 --> 00:42:11,819
was I was like, this is a reality show.

896
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,609
So is this gonna be like every
other reality show where there's

897
00:42:14,609 --> 00:42:17,700
like these storylines that
plot you against each other?

898
00:42:18,029 --> 00:42:18,720
You know what I mean?

899
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:22,350
And we're like, things can get,
as we know from other reality

900
00:42:22,350 --> 00:42:24,480
shows, things can get pretty nasty.

901
00:42:25,410 --> 00:42:29,040
What I loved about this show, and I
guess it's just the characters of the

902
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,339
people that were on this show, so like,
just not only the both of you, but all

903
00:42:32,339 --> 00:42:36,180
the other teams people look so nice
and supportive, you know what I mean?

904
00:42:36,180 --> 00:42:39,210
Like people, I don't know if that's
how it, how it happened, but like I'm

905
00:42:39,210 --> 00:42:41,430
sure there was a bit of competition
'cause like the whole point of the

906
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:44,490
show was to get as many pictures
as possible of certain species

907
00:42:44,700 --> 00:42:45,720
when you're in this different area.

908
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:48,240
So there's a bit of that competition
where you don't want to tell, you know,

909
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:52,410
certain people where you're gonna go and
all this kind of stuff, but like people

910
00:42:52,410 --> 00:42:57,359
seem generally like happy to be there
and it wasn't as if you're trying to, um.

911
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,300
Like there, there wasn't a
part where you're not diving.

912
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,730
Like I think there was one part
in the show where they showed you

913
00:43:02,730 --> 00:43:04,290
guys all eating dinner together.

914
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:06,840
And at first I thought, oh,
this is where it's gonna happen.

915
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,510
Like if it's gonna happen anywhere,
this is where it's gonna happen.

916
00:43:09,660 --> 00:43:10,500
But it was pretty cool.

917
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:13,350
Like it was pretty chilled
out for a reality show and I

918
00:43:13,350 --> 00:43:14,580
was like, this is really nice.

919
00:43:14,580 --> 00:43:18,870
It's a, it's refreshing to have
Rasha where the focus is literally

920
00:43:18,930 --> 00:43:22,320
on all the sharks, like you
guys going out and finding this.

921
00:43:22,650 --> 00:43:24,240
Um, and I thought that was pretty cool.

922
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:28,140
Like, were you, after it was all said
and done and you watched the show,

923
00:43:28,140 --> 00:43:32,220
like did you have a chance to watch
the episodes before it came out or did

924
00:43:32,220 --> 00:43:33,535
you watch it like everybody else did?

925
00:43:34,925 --> 00:43:35,215
Yeah.

926
00:43:35,265 --> 00:43:36,540
Watch it like everybody else did.

927
00:43:36,540 --> 00:43:38,940
At end of the day, we
didn't know what to expect.

928
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:42,090
We didn't know how they were gonna,
I know they were probably up and, um,

929
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,900
trying to do all the post-production and
on a tight timeline, so they probably

930
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:47,430
didn't have a big gap between that.

931
00:43:48,015 --> 00:43:49,605
And when it came out
from what we gathered.

932
00:43:49,605 --> 00:43:50,985
So, no, we didn't really know.

933
00:43:50,985 --> 00:43:54,165
And, and, and you're right Andrew,
I think like this could have gone

934
00:43:54,165 --> 00:43:55,665
in a bunch of different directions.

935
00:43:55,845 --> 00:43:55,904
Yeah.

936
00:43:55,904 --> 00:43:57,944
But mostly like everybody
got along very well.

937
00:43:57,944 --> 00:43:58,845
We had fun together.

938
00:43:58,845 --> 00:43:58,904
Yeah.

939
00:43:58,904 --> 00:44:01,305
We're, we still have maintained
friendships we're Yeah.

940
00:44:01,305 --> 00:44:05,775
Doing some of these posts, um,
show, um, events together, going

941
00:44:05,775 --> 00:44:07,245
and doing Q and a's together.

942
00:44:07,305 --> 00:44:07,575
Nice.

943
00:44:07,575 --> 00:44:10,424
You know, Brendan's been pretty
close with Randy on the west coast.

944
00:44:10,424 --> 00:44:11,625
I've had Rosie Oh, nice.

945
00:44:11,865 --> 00:44:15,194
Um, and MJ out here, um,
out of the Miami area.

946
00:44:15,194 --> 00:44:17,985
So we've done some stuff together
and, and I, yeah, I think, you

947
00:44:17,985 --> 00:44:20,535
know, we've developed relationships
that'll, that'll probably last, you

948
00:44:20,535 --> 00:44:21,960
know, forever, so That's awesome.

949
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:23,235
I think that was pretty cool.

950
00:44:23,235 --> 00:44:25,845
But there was a lot of stuff that
we filmed out at dinners doing

951
00:44:26,265 --> 00:44:29,654
various things that would've
been kind of cool for camera.

952
00:44:29,654 --> 00:44:32,955
But I think, yeah, they stuck
true to this being about the

953
00:44:32,955 --> 00:44:34,335
sharks, not about the people.

954
00:44:34,755 --> 00:44:38,325
And so I think, you know, one of the
complaints I've gotten from people

955
00:44:38,325 --> 00:44:40,964
is that they never really got to know
us that well or any of the groups.

956
00:44:41,025 --> 00:44:41,145
Yeah.

957
00:44:41,444 --> 00:44:43,005
Which, okay, I can see that.

958
00:44:43,935 --> 00:44:47,384
Fair enough though, because I, I think
they had so much time and, and it really

959
00:44:47,384 --> 00:44:50,235
highlighted the sharks and it wasn't
about the people as much in the end.

960
00:44:50,235 --> 00:44:51,134
And I think that's okay.

961
00:44:51,915 --> 00:44:53,235
Yeah, and I think I, I, I agree.

962
00:44:53,235 --> 00:44:56,745
I think I, I agree with the criti
criticism that it wasn't a lot about

963
00:44:56,745 --> 00:45:00,915
you guys, but it's also, it was like
a six episode, you know, sort of arc.

964
00:45:00,915 --> 00:45:05,415
So it's not as if it's goes on the
other reality shows can go on for like,

965
00:45:05,775 --> 00:45:07,785
you know, 20 episodes for all we know.

966
00:45:07,785 --> 00:45:11,295
And so that's a, there, that's when
you really get into the characters and,

967
00:45:11,685 --> 00:45:13,125
and it's not all all about the 'cause.

968
00:45:13,125 --> 00:45:17,025
I mean, if you did that with yours,
it'd be, you know, in South Africa for

969
00:45:17,025 --> 00:45:19,634
a long time, in Japan for a long time,
which could have been really cool.

970
00:45:19,634 --> 00:45:23,835
But I'm sure they had specific episodes
to fit timelines into and, and so I

971
00:45:23,835 --> 00:45:25,125
thought, I thought they did a great job.

972
00:45:25,125 --> 00:45:29,415
I, I, I definitely, as you know, I,
I spoke highly about it when I did

973
00:45:29,415 --> 00:45:33,645
my first, uh, episode on it, and then
I've been telling people all about

974
00:45:33,645 --> 00:45:35,325
it, um, which I thought was great.

975
00:45:35,325 --> 00:45:39,315
But like for you guys as scientists
going through the process.

976
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:41,609
Traveling to all these different places.

977
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:44,640
Oh, well, I guess the first, did
you know where you were gonna go?

978
00:45:45,060 --> 00:45:49,920
Like, uh, like so you started off,
uh, in, in the Maldives Not a bad

979
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:51,120
place to start off, let's be honest.

980
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,680
Like, that's a pretty cool place to go.

981
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:53,670
It was all right.

982
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:53,730
Yeah.

983
00:45:53,759 --> 00:45:55,560
Did you know where you were gonna go next?

984
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,839
Like, did you know all the different
regions where you were gonna go?

985
00:45:58,980 --> 00:45:59,670
We didn't.

986
00:45:59,910 --> 00:46:04,049
We had, um, I'd say two weeks
before the first flight, we got

987
00:46:04,049 --> 00:46:05,850
a list of possible locations.

988
00:46:06,089 --> 00:46:06,515
Oh, okay.

989
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:11,640
'cause the, you know, the producers
had our backs and wanted, they wanted

990
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,480
everyone to say good things that
were like, relevant and accurate

991
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,040
and would help advance the story.

992
00:46:17,460 --> 00:46:17,580
Yeah.

993
00:46:17,580 --> 00:46:20,670
And so, but they also didn't
want anyone to have a big leg up.

994
00:46:20,670 --> 00:46:25,440
So they said, all right, here's whatever,
10 or 12 possible locations, like go

995
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:30,270
do your homework before we leave and
once we hand you your plane ticket,

996
00:46:30,270 --> 00:46:31,120
then you'll know where we're going.

997
00:46:32,085 --> 00:46:36,195
Um, and so Chris and I, in true
scientist fashion, we've got these

998
00:46:36,285 --> 00:46:41,745
like enormous PowerPoints of like
species ID for every possible location.

999
00:46:41,745 --> 00:46:43,065
Even the ones we didn't go to.

1000
00:46:43,455 --> 00:46:43,545
Yeah.

1001
00:46:43,545 --> 00:46:48,255
We have a Google Earth file with
like sightings locations of anyone

1002
00:46:48,255 --> 00:46:52,215
we've ever met who's like done
a PhD at a particular place.

1003
00:46:52,635 --> 00:46:55,575
They're like, all right, here's a Google
Earth file drop pins where you would

1004
00:46:55,575 --> 00:46:58,155
spend your time to find sharks and rays.

1005
00:46:59,475 --> 00:46:59,630
Um, phenomenal.

1006
00:46:59,685 --> 00:47:02,685
I think that was the, that's
how we were able to, that's

1007
00:47:02,685 --> 00:47:03,645
how we were able to nerd out.

1008
00:47:03,645 --> 00:47:06,225
And, and Brendan, you had
access to reef data too, so you

1009
00:47:06,225 --> 00:47:08,025
made like hotspot maps right?

1010
00:47:08,025 --> 00:47:10,905
Of like even more likely to
find things in this area.

1011
00:47:10,905 --> 00:47:12,765
We had literally heat maps of that.

1012
00:47:13,035 --> 00:47:13,755
Yeah.

1013
00:47:13,785 --> 00:47:14,205
Yeah.

1014
00:47:14,565 --> 00:47:16,515
We use, we use the tools available to us.

1015
00:47:16,515 --> 00:47:19,515
The reef, uh, reef Environmental
Education Foundation is one of

1016
00:47:19,515 --> 00:47:21,585
the two charities that we donated.

1017
00:47:22,185 --> 00:47:23,685
Uh, some money too.

1018
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:24,700
That's awesome.

1019
00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:24,945
That's awesome.

1020
00:47:25,035 --> 00:47:27,795
I would say because it
helped how we got the money.

1021
00:47:28,095 --> 00:47:28,605
Yeah.

1022
00:47:29,235 --> 00:47:32,355
But, uh, we got some money and half
of it went to them and half went

1023
00:47:32,355 --> 00:47:33,980
to Ocean First and, and Perfect.

1024
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,525
And the Reef database
is publicly available.

1025
00:47:36,885 --> 00:47:40,605
Uh, you just have to request it, but
it's got all this amazing citizen

1026
00:47:40,605 --> 00:47:42,135
science data around the world.

1027
00:47:42,135 --> 00:47:45,285
And so anywhere that they
had data, we would Yeah.

1028
00:47:45,315 --> 00:47:46,965
Create hotspot maps.

1029
00:47:47,355 --> 00:47:51,825
Um, one that comes to mind is, is
in the Gala Galapagos at Darwin.

1030
00:47:52,275 --> 00:47:54,885
And no surprise, the hotspot
for everything was right at

1031
00:47:54,885 --> 00:47:56,295
Darwin's arch or Pillars.

1032
00:47:56,685 --> 00:48:00,435
Um, but it was, it was very helpful,
like a combination of reading

1033
00:48:00,435 --> 00:48:03,015
all the papers for each location.

1034
00:48:03,105 --> 00:48:03,255
Mm-hmm.

1035
00:48:03,495 --> 00:48:08,115
And then the Google Earth file from all of
our personal contacts and everyone else is

1036
00:48:08,115 --> 00:48:09,615
doing this too, in their own communities.

1037
00:48:09,615 --> 00:48:09,795
Of course.

1038
00:48:09,795 --> 00:48:10,755
Maybe it's more like.

1039
00:48:11,295 --> 00:48:12,945
The social media like Yeah.

1040
00:48:12,945 --> 00:48:16,245
Underwater photographer community
or whoever it is for us, it's,

1041
00:48:16,575 --> 00:48:18,285
it's folks who are scientists.

1042
00:48:18,345 --> 00:48:19,245
Um, yeah.

1043
00:48:19,305 --> 00:48:21,135
But yeah, all those different
layers come together.

1044
00:48:21,135 --> 00:48:23,865
So once you land in a place, you're
like, all right, we've got three days.

1045
00:48:23,865 --> 00:48:27,255
The weather looks like this,
the tides are at these times.

1046
00:48:27,765 --> 00:48:31,215
If we plan this out perfectly
and everything goes well, then

1047
00:48:31,215 --> 00:48:32,655
we'll hit all these spots.

1048
00:48:32,685 --> 00:48:32,745
Yeah.

1049
00:48:32,745 --> 00:48:36,615
And the last day we'll spend, you know,
just racking up these points that we

1050
00:48:36,615 --> 00:48:38,595
know are gonna be there the whole time.

1051
00:48:38,655 --> 00:48:40,875
And so every team would
have their approach.

1052
00:48:41,415 --> 00:48:47,340
Um, and ours was informed by all
of that information and like took

1053
00:48:47,340 --> 00:48:48,915
the scientific approach for sure.

1054
00:48:49,425 --> 00:48:54,375
But also just, I think what we did a
really good job of was time management.

1055
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:58,965
It, it really became a game of
time management and budgeting

1056
00:48:58,965 --> 00:49:02,205
resources, whether that's bait time.

1057
00:49:02,565 --> 00:49:02,865
Yeah.

1058
00:49:03,585 --> 00:49:06,105
Air, air on, you know, your four scuba
tank tanks, eight hours of air on what?

1059
00:49:06,105 --> 00:49:06,825
Four tanks?

1060
00:49:06,855 --> 00:49:07,799
Like that's, yeah.

1061
00:49:07,995 --> 00:49:08,955
That's what they gave you.

1062
00:49:09,254 --> 00:49:11,984
That's, that's, that's what I thought
they could focus on a little more.

1063
00:49:11,984 --> 00:49:13,904
I it would've be cool if
they had like a meat Yeah.

1064
00:49:14,115 --> 00:49:18,254
Of like how much air you have left and how
much time that'd be, you know what I mean?

1065
00:49:18,404 --> 00:49:19,640
I may put that, put that, yeah.

1066
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,555
Put that comment into the next season.

1067
00:49:21,555 --> 00:49:21,765
Right.

1068
00:49:22,065 --> 00:49:22,634
Yeah.

1069
00:49:22,634 --> 00:49:24,165
I would've loved to have seen that.

1070
00:49:24,315 --> 00:49:24,525
Yeah.

1071
00:49:24,525 --> 00:49:28,964
Well, I think the, the cool part for
us that Brendan has, has described is

1072
00:49:28,964 --> 00:49:33,075
that we approach this like we would the
field, field work as scientists, right?

1073
00:49:33,075 --> 00:49:38,504
So we, we strategize as much with as much
time as we had, um, and really put a plan

1074
00:49:38,565 --> 00:49:42,674
together, and then we're willing to adapt
when things would change as we always do.

1075
00:49:42,674 --> 00:49:45,404
So just being comfortable with,
with, with changes being thrown

1076
00:49:45,404 --> 00:49:47,745
at us or, or issues or weather.

1077
00:49:48,330 --> 00:49:49,500
And, and yeah.

1078
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:51,899
And then putting on these full face
masks too, that we were wearing the

1079
00:49:51,899 --> 00:49:54,270
whole time talking about air consumption.

1080
00:49:54,569 --> 00:49:55,080
Yeah.

1081
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:56,970
Well, they suck up air.

1082
00:49:56,970 --> 00:49:58,709
And so those are things Oh, interesting.

1083
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,669
You have to, you have to start to
apply to your, your strategy is like,

1084
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:05,580
okay, we know we've only got so much
bottom time now, which is different

1085
00:50:05,580 --> 00:50:06,629
than how we would normally be.

1086
00:50:07,950 --> 00:50:08,009
Yeah.

1087
00:50:08,009 --> 00:50:09,419
And just trying to figure that out.

1088
00:50:09,419 --> 00:50:13,290
And then having the four takes per
day, the rules and the guidelines

1089
00:50:13,290 --> 00:50:15,750
that we have to stick to immediately.

1090
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:18,990
Brendan and I both gravitated
towards, oh, surface time.

1091
00:50:18,990 --> 00:50:22,080
What are people doing during their surface
intervals when they have to off gas?

1092
00:50:22,109 --> 00:50:23,520
Oh, we're not taking a break.

1093
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,220
We're gonna jump in the water and
snorkel because we can do that.

1094
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,490
And so we really started busting
our butts and just with our time

1095
00:50:29,490 --> 00:50:32,850
management, figuring out the
depths we wanted to go to early on.

1096
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:37,319
And, and if going for more abundant
or rare species first was always

1097
00:50:37,319 --> 00:50:38,549
sort of the, the big question.

1098
00:50:38,549 --> 00:50:41,790
And then it's like, yeah, oh, let's
go into the shallows in our off

1099
00:50:41,790 --> 00:50:44,370
time and just time that really,
well, okay, we got five minutes,

1100
00:50:44,370 --> 00:50:46,140
get back on the boat, get back in.

1101
00:50:46,140 --> 00:50:49,680
And we did that the whole time and that,
and we started doing really well early on.

1102
00:50:49,859 --> 00:50:52,470
And then other people kind of picked
up on our strategy and started to

1103
00:50:52,470 --> 00:50:55,470
sort of mimic that a little bit is,
is kind of how we saw that going.

1104
00:50:55,470 --> 00:50:58,799
But um, generally that's
just how we approached it.

1105
00:50:58,799 --> 00:51:01,080
We just worked our butts
off and just worked.

1106
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,000
We stayed wet the entire
time that we could.

1107
00:51:03,515 --> 00:51:04,230
I, I love it.

1108
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:09,480
I did, I did love your strategy, um, going
into it because you, you guys definitely

1109
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,990
had a good, I think it was you guys in
the Maldives where it's like, okay, 'cause

1110
00:51:12,990 --> 00:51:15,920
though just for the audience who haven't
seen it, I highly recommend you go see it.

1111
00:51:16,455 --> 00:51:19,875
But there were, uh, points awarded
for every picture you get, uh, in

1112
00:51:19,875 --> 00:51:23,174
specific spots, but sharks in one
spot, like say Tiger Sharks in

1113
00:51:23,174 --> 00:51:25,305
one spot might be a lower value.

1114
00:51:25,305 --> 00:51:28,695
Like in the Maldives, I think there were
three points compared to like somewhere

1115
00:51:28,695 --> 00:51:30,195
in The Bahamas it might be worth.

1116
00:51:30,255 --> 00:51:30,465
Yeah.

1117
00:51:30,465 --> 00:51:31,095
Or Galapagos.

1118
00:51:31,095 --> 00:51:32,415
It might be worth a lot more.

1119
00:51:32,535 --> 00:51:33,285
'cause they're harder to find.

1120
00:51:33,285 --> 00:51:36,375
It was based on how much they see it,
but it was, it was, it was your team that

1121
00:51:36,375 --> 00:51:41,985
said, well, look, they might only be worth
three points in, in Maldives, but we know

1122
00:51:41,985 --> 00:51:45,645
we're gonna see a lot of them, so we're
gonna take as many pictures as possible.

1123
00:51:45,705 --> 00:51:49,545
And you know, you ended up doing pretty
well in that, in that first, in that first

1124
00:51:49,545 --> 00:51:51,825
one and, and because of that strategy.

1125
00:51:51,825 --> 00:51:53,174
So I just love it.

1126
00:51:53,205 --> 00:51:56,685
Uh, it reminds me of you guys the way
your approach reminds me of that film,

1127
00:51:56,685 --> 00:51:59,384
the Martian, where Matt Dame's like,
I'm gonna science the shit out of this.

1128
00:51:59,475 --> 00:52:02,475
Uh, you know, and that's essentially
what you guys, it sounds like

1129
00:52:02,475 --> 00:52:03,915
what you guys did, you know?

1130
00:52:03,915 --> 00:52:05,145
And, and I think that's, uh.

1131
00:52:05,549 --> 00:52:08,160
I think that was, that's, that's
pretty cool because that's what you do.

1132
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,609
You look, you take like an analytical
approach, look up databases, get

1133
00:52:11,609 --> 00:52:15,149
your networks, like find where you
can go and what's gonna be there.

1134
00:52:15,209 --> 00:52:18,569
And then you have 12 and it gets
to shrunken down to six or however

1135
00:52:18,569 --> 00:52:22,350
many, and you're like, okay, like
let's go, let's go out and do this.

1136
00:52:23,100 --> 00:52:24,240
And then you guys did a lot.

1137
00:52:24,390 --> 00:52:24,745
Sorry, go ahead.

1138
00:52:24,750 --> 00:52:25,140
Oh, sorry.

1139
00:52:25,140 --> 00:52:28,680
And then from a diving perspective,
you know, visibility currents, tide.

1140
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:28,740
Yeah.

1141
00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:31,230
So then those are the things that
you don't necessarily know and

1142
00:52:31,230 --> 00:52:34,680
you're researching a place you've
never been without a dive guide.

1143
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,140
The, the divers could be in the water
with us, but they couldn't guide us.

1144
00:52:37,140 --> 00:52:39,180
So you're also navigating a
place that you've never been.

1145
00:52:39,180 --> 00:52:41,490
You don't, you know, about this
reef, but you don't know where to go.

1146
00:52:41,819 --> 00:52:44,759
And so they're misses in there,
um, with that sort of thing.

1147
00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:48,180
Um, and some of that was, was stressful.

1148
00:52:48,180 --> 00:52:49,384
Like, and you're, you know.

1149
00:52:50,085 --> 00:52:53,895
Having a local guide who knows
exactly where to expect the

1150
00:52:53,895 --> 00:52:55,785
raging current is pretty helpful.

1151
00:52:56,715 --> 00:53:01,755
And when you're, when you're diving
an at hole in the Indian Ocean

1152
00:53:01,875 --> 00:53:06,075
at like the convergence point of
major currents, yeah, that's great.

1153
00:53:06,075 --> 00:53:07,785
For lots of sharks and rays, you know?

1154
00:53:07,845 --> 00:53:08,115
Yeah.

1155
00:53:08,355 --> 00:53:10,905
That's also really challenging
when you just hop in the water

1156
00:53:10,905 --> 00:53:13,725
and look around like, all right,
where, you know, where do I find

1157
00:53:13,725 --> 00:53:15,345
the cleaning station with the thres?

1158
00:53:15,825 --> 00:53:19,665
It's like, and I don't think there's any
two people like, or in terms of us, like

1159
00:53:19,665 --> 00:53:22,635
I would've, there's probably no one else
I would've gone with over Brendan just

1160
00:53:22,635 --> 00:53:26,445
because I knew he was a good scientist
and he is a shark biologist, um, much

1161
00:53:26,445 --> 00:53:28,905
more so than I am, and he's a good diver.

1162
00:53:28,965 --> 00:53:31,635
Like those, that combination is
a winning combination, right?

1163
00:53:31,755 --> 00:53:36,015
I mean, you've gotta be a very experienced
diver to go to the locations we did to be

1164
00:53:36,015 --> 00:53:40,035
able to do them well without struggling
and, and to be able to stay focused

1165
00:53:40,035 --> 00:53:43,425
on the objectives while also diving
like that's not to be taken lightly.

1166
00:53:43,425 --> 00:53:45,405
There was some very difficult
conditions we were in.

1167
00:53:45,885 --> 00:53:46,455
Absolutely.

1168
00:53:46,455 --> 00:53:47,805
And, and that's what I was gonna ask.

1169
00:53:47,955 --> 00:53:49,515
I was, what I was wondering
through watching this show is.

1170
00:53:49,830 --> 00:53:53,340
Did they, did the production company
require a certain level of diving

1171
00:53:53,340 --> 00:53:54,450
or a certain number of hours?

1172
00:53:54,450 --> 00:53:58,470
Like did you have to have like your
dive master or instructional, or did

1173
00:53:58,470 --> 00:54:02,010
you have to have like your scientific
divers, like I know in the US they do

1174
00:54:02,010 --> 00:54:06,930
scientific diving, like the, was it the,
the aaas SI think is, is the, the does

1175
00:54:06,930 --> 00:54:11,820
scientific diving, did you have to have
a certain accreditation accreditation

1176
00:54:12,090 --> 00:54:15,240
for diving to even be on the show?

1177
00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:19,200
They definitely asked everybody
for their level of expertise and

1178
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,480
had some sort of a metric for that.

1179
00:54:21,540 --> 00:54:24,120
Um, I think everybody came in with
something slightly different 'cause

1180
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:28,350
like, okay, I think Brendan toot, I
was, I was A-A-A-U-S is what it is,

1181
00:54:28,350 --> 00:54:30,120
American Science, a water science.

1182
00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:32,340
So I was that all through my PhD.

1183
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,750
Um, and then that, but that ex that
expires six months after course, you,

1184
00:54:36,750 --> 00:54:38,850
you don't keep, um, keep that up.

1185
00:54:38,910 --> 00:54:44,250
And so, um, yeah, I mean I think they
used a loose justification for it.

1186
00:54:44,250 --> 00:54:47,760
Everybody had to be confident and say,
you know, I'm, I'm confident diver.

1187
00:54:47,820 --> 00:54:48,510
Um, but there was.

1188
00:54:49,140 --> 00:54:51,089
Certainly various levels of, of yeah.

1189
00:54:51,089 --> 00:54:53,940
Experience and comfort in
these different environments.

1190
00:54:53,944 --> 00:54:58,650
And, and again, other than like one
little breath thing that we can't

1191
00:54:58,650 --> 00:54:59,819
figure out what happened to Brendan.

1192
00:54:59,910 --> 00:55:01,200
We, we think we have a reason Oh, right.

1193
00:55:01,259 --> 00:55:02,069
Why it happened to Maldi.

1194
00:55:02,130 --> 00:55:02,220
Yes.

1195
00:55:02,759 --> 00:55:06,630
But that was the only slight,
which is almost nothing difficulty

1196
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:08,069
we had in the entire time.

1197
00:55:08,069 --> 00:55:09,270
And that wasn't 20 feet of water.

1198
00:55:09,270 --> 00:55:11,460
There was no real risk there
other than the tiger sharks.

1199
00:55:11,790 --> 00:55:12,210
Right.

1200
00:55:12,270 --> 00:55:12,630
Right.

1201
00:55:12,930 --> 00:55:14,520
I mean, well, I think
that's the other thing too.

1202
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,210
A lot of people would be like,
well, yeah, you're diving and you're

1203
00:55:18,210 --> 00:55:19,410
diving in these amazing spots.

1204
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:20,910
The cinematography was amazing.

1205
00:55:20,910 --> 00:55:21,000
Mm-hmm.

1206
00:55:21,299 --> 00:55:22,650
But you're also diving with sharks.

1207
00:55:22,650 --> 00:55:26,520
Like you have to be comfortable having,
like, you guys had, what, how big were

1208
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,410
the tiger sharks when, when you saw them?

1209
00:55:28,859 --> 00:55:30,630
They were what, 10, three and a meters?

1210
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:31,080
Probably.

1211
00:55:31,410 --> 00:55:31,859
Yeah.

1212
00:55:32,069 --> 00:55:32,460
Yeah.

1213
00:55:32,670 --> 00:55:34,560
They're most, they're mostly, um.

1214
00:55:35,460 --> 00:55:37,530
Pregnant females, they get a
lot of pregnant females in the

1215
00:55:37,530 --> 00:55:38,670
day, or females in general.

1216
00:55:38,670 --> 00:55:42,780
So they're definitely adult
reproductively capable, um, sharks

1217
00:55:42,870 --> 00:55:44,215
and so they're all very large.

1218
00:55:44,245 --> 00:55:44,535
Yeah.

1219
00:55:44,820 --> 00:55:46,860
So you have to be comfortable
with seeing those in the water.

1220
00:55:46,890 --> 00:55:49,230
'cause like everybody, it was
really cool 'cause everybody who

1221
00:55:49,230 --> 00:55:51,840
saw, like all the divers who saw
sharks, like, oh, I got a shark.

1222
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,750
'cause they were so in tune
to winning this contest.

1223
00:55:54,990 --> 00:55:58,380
But then like I, I've watched it with some
people like, like, but that's a tiger.

1224
00:55:58,410 --> 00:55:59,730
Like that's a tiger shark in there.

1225
00:55:59,730 --> 00:56:02,970
That's a bull like in Bimini when,
when you get like the bull sharks,

1226
00:56:02,970 --> 00:56:04,230
like there's bull sharks there.

1227
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:05,520
Like, what are you guys doing?

1228
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:06,750
Or there's like a hammerhead there.

1229
00:56:06,930 --> 00:56:09,000
But I thought it, it also showed.

1230
00:56:10,095 --> 00:56:13,515
That wasn't the focus of the show
was being afraid of the sharks.

1231
00:56:13,515 --> 00:56:13,605
Mm-hmm.

1232
00:56:13,875 --> 00:56:13,964
Right.

1233
00:56:13,964 --> 00:56:18,075
There were a few spots where people
were concerned and, um, there was, I, I

1234
00:56:18,075 --> 00:56:21,825
forget the, the, the name of the woman
who had previously been bitten by a lemon

1235
00:56:21,825 --> 00:56:24,855
shark, uh, in, in bi Sarah, yeah, Sarah.

1236
00:56:24,855 --> 00:56:28,424
And then she did the brave thing of
going back in, like even my anxiety

1237
00:56:28,424 --> 00:56:32,625
was up, you know, watching her go and
being like, wow, that, that takes a lot

1238
00:56:32,625 --> 00:56:34,665
of guts to, to go back in after that.

1239
00:56:34,665 --> 00:56:38,234
I mean, obviously that's a, that's a
very significant injury that she had.

1240
00:56:38,234 --> 00:56:40,214
And then to go back
in, it was really cool.

1241
00:56:40,214 --> 00:56:43,935
But what the focus wasn't necessarily
on how dangerous these sharks are.

1242
00:56:43,935 --> 00:56:45,884
The focus was like, oh, this is amazing.

1243
00:56:45,884 --> 00:56:47,145
I'm gonna get this many points.

1244
00:56:47,145 --> 00:56:50,025
Or what I loved is the
diversity of sharks.

1245
00:56:50,565 --> 00:56:53,295
I don't think we've ever seen that
on a, on a program in one program.

1246
00:56:53,295 --> 00:56:57,225
So one of the, one of the things, and
I'll let Brendan add onto this, but you

1247
00:56:57,225 --> 00:56:58,815
know, we, we had two things going on.

1248
00:56:58,815 --> 00:57:01,694
You've mentioned before, Andrew, the
Tiger shark was worth three points

1249
00:57:01,694 --> 00:57:06,225
in the Maldives, worth a lot more
points and say Bi Eve or Galapagos.

1250
00:57:06,645 --> 00:57:06,825
Right.

1251
00:57:06,825 --> 00:57:07,815
One of the cool things.

1252
00:57:08,685 --> 00:57:11,955
In regards to that is that the,
you know, a species that's circum,

1253
00:57:11,955 --> 00:57:14,504
tropical, you know, that you can
see in all these different places.

1254
00:57:14,504 --> 00:57:15,044
It's cool.

1255
00:57:15,165 --> 00:57:18,464
We're dropping in here, we're dropping in
there, we're seeing the same species, but

1256
00:57:18,464 --> 00:57:19,815
in a completely different environment.

1257
00:57:20,174 --> 00:57:22,424
Versus the other thing that you
just brought up was the diversity of

1258
00:57:22,424 --> 00:57:26,325
sharks and a lot of endemic species
that occur only in South Africa only.

1259
00:57:26,384 --> 00:57:27,044
Um, right.

1260
00:57:27,044 --> 00:57:28,725
You know, in this area, that area.

1261
00:57:29,174 --> 00:57:33,705
And so being able to see those things
juxtaposed as scientists, especially

1262
00:57:34,004 --> 00:57:37,935
dropping in from one part of, uh, the
world to another in rapid succession.

1263
00:57:37,935 --> 00:57:39,825
'cause we, we filmed
all this in two months.

1264
00:57:39,825 --> 00:57:40,634
Like there was no break.

1265
00:57:40,634 --> 00:57:42,044
And I think people have
asked that question.

1266
00:57:42,044 --> 00:57:44,774
So we were just dropping in
from one extreme to the next.

1267
00:57:44,805 --> 00:57:45,225
Um.

1268
00:57:46,140 --> 00:57:47,850
And that, that to me was the focus.

1269
00:57:47,850 --> 00:57:51,000
Like there was conditions that were,
you know, Brendan and I had discussions,

1270
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,210
especially like South Africa of things
being a little sketchy at times.

1271
00:57:54,450 --> 00:57:57,090
Low visibility white shark highway.

1272
00:57:57,150 --> 00:57:59,460
Um, so we, we had to make some of those.

1273
00:57:59,460 --> 00:57:59,730
I love that.

1274
00:57:59,730 --> 00:58:00,480
That was third.

1275
00:58:02,220 --> 00:58:04,410
I mean, they all, they all take
part, but that was like, that

1276
00:58:04,410 --> 00:58:05,490
was like, it's white shark.

1277
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:07,125
Like this is cold.

1278
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:08,820
And then white sharks.

1279
00:58:08,910 --> 00:58:09,965
And then white sharks.

1280
00:58:09,965 --> 00:58:10,205
Yeah.

1281
00:58:12,420 --> 00:58:13,740
So we had to consider all that.

1282
00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:16,650
Like there's a healthy respect
for, for the environment that we're

1283
00:58:16,650 --> 00:58:20,040
in sharks as part of that, the
conditions a major part of that.

1284
00:58:20,370 --> 00:58:23,340
Um, and all that had to be
taken into consideration, well

1285
00:58:23,340 --> 00:58:25,530
above some competition, right?

1286
00:58:25,770 --> 00:58:28,020
Our wives are not worth television.

1287
00:58:28,020 --> 00:58:31,830
And, and that was also a concession
that we, you know, that we had.

1288
00:58:31,830 --> 00:58:32,805
So, yeah.

1289
00:58:32,810 --> 00:58:32,910
Yeah.

1290
00:58:33,270 --> 00:58:34,830
No, that's, that's amazing.

1291
00:58:35,130 --> 00:58:35,700
Go ahead.

1292
00:58:35,700 --> 00:58:36,660
Uh, Brendan, you were gonna say something?

1293
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,030
I'm just, I, I completely agree.

1294
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:42,750
We always had that at the forefront
of our minds is like looking

1295
00:58:42,750 --> 00:58:44,125
after ourselves and the, the.

1296
00:58:45,045 --> 00:58:47,685
The teams in the water were so strong.

1297
00:58:47,715 --> 00:58:51,705
Like all the underwater
camera operators are amazing.

1298
00:58:52,095 --> 00:58:52,185
Yeah.

1299
00:58:52,185 --> 00:58:57,765
And so on any given dive, you know, it
would be the two teammates, the underwater

1300
00:58:57,945 --> 00:59:03,615
camera person, and then usually a local
dive master who, like Chris said, is kind

1301
00:59:03,615 --> 00:59:05,325
of just hanging off in the background.

1302
00:59:05,415 --> 00:59:06,045
Um, right.

1303
00:59:06,105 --> 00:59:08,325
They're there, but they're
not able to guide you.

1304
00:59:08,805 --> 00:59:14,025
Um, and so a lot of this was,
it wasn't just like me and

1305
00:59:14,025 --> 00:59:15,345
Chris relying on each other.

1306
00:59:15,345 --> 00:59:16,245
It would be like, yeah.

1307
00:59:16,305 --> 00:59:20,025
We felt a very strong bond with
the underwater cameramen as well.

1308
00:59:20,385 --> 00:59:23,355
Um, because also in some of these
places, you might not speak the same

1309
00:59:23,355 --> 00:59:27,435
language as the dive master, and so
like, there's a communication barrier

1310
00:59:27,435 --> 00:59:28,755
and, and you're in a new place.

1311
00:59:28,755 --> 00:59:32,295
And so it's nice to be with that
third person where like, you really,

1312
00:59:32,415 --> 00:59:34,210
you're doing it together and we, yeah.

1313
00:59:34,995 --> 00:59:36,194
We got better at this.

1314
00:59:37,035 --> 00:59:41,085
If any of them are listening, they're
laughing right now because we were, we

1315
00:59:41,085 --> 00:59:46,634
were just absolute menas to them because
we were like sprinting through, like we'd

1316
00:59:46,634 --> 00:59:51,705
swim an entire bay on scuba, hop out, drop
the gear, get back in the boat, go swim.

1317
00:59:51,705 --> 00:59:53,205
You guys were like, I wanna win this.

1318
00:59:53,205 --> 00:59:53,265
Yeah.

1319
00:59:53,415 --> 00:59:53,984
Oh yeah.

1320
00:59:54,915 --> 00:59:56,080
We were, we were militant about it.

1321
00:59:56,310 --> 00:59:56,600
Yeah.

1322
00:59:56,714 --> 00:59:59,865
Whatever we were doing, they
were working twice as hard.

1323
00:59:59,865 --> 01:00:03,915
'cause they're pushing a giant camera
rig and trying to get, not only like,

1324
01:00:03,944 --> 01:00:08,174
they don't just need a photo, they
need us in the frame with the animals

1325
01:00:08,174 --> 01:00:10,245
that's swimming away, you know?

1326
01:00:10,245 --> 01:00:12,585
And so I think we got better.

1327
01:00:12,975 --> 01:00:13,815
Hopefully they'd agree.

1328
01:00:14,595 --> 01:00:19,004
I think we got better at like trying
to coordinate better with them.

1329
01:00:19,065 --> 01:00:19,125
Yeah.

1330
01:00:19,125 --> 01:00:24,045
Keeping, keeping the show in mind and
what was needed for the show in mind.

1331
01:00:24,194 --> 01:00:24,285
Mm-hmm.

1332
01:00:24,525 --> 01:00:27,495
Whether that was like, you know,
maybe we don't need to give an

1333
01:00:27,495 --> 01:00:28,935
underwater lecture at this site.

1334
01:00:28,935 --> 01:00:33,015
Maybe they just need like a short
soundbite that wraps it up in a sentence.

1335
01:00:33,375 --> 01:00:37,935
Or if we position ourselves here, then
they can get the shark with us behind it.

1336
01:00:37,935 --> 01:00:41,745
And so it was, there was like
very much a team atmosphere,

1337
01:00:41,895 --> 01:00:43,275
at least within each boat.

1338
01:00:43,365 --> 01:00:45,670
Uh, yeah, as we went from
location to location.

1339
01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:45,690
That's great.

1340
01:00:46,065 --> 01:00:48,675
And, and you probably needed
that cameraman too, right?

1341
01:00:48,675 --> 01:00:52,605
To be like, I need you to get this
shark, because let's be honest, like

1342
01:00:52,965 --> 01:00:56,115
they probably slowed a lot of the
stuff down that, that you guys saw

1343
01:00:56,115 --> 01:00:57,405
when you were taking the photographs.

1344
01:00:57,405 --> 01:00:59,205
But that doesn't happen in the ocean.

1345
01:00:59,205 --> 01:01:00,825
Some of these sharks
are moving quite fast.

1346
01:01:00,825 --> 01:01:03,015
If they see you, boom,
they, they might be gone.

1347
01:01:03,345 --> 01:01:07,365
Uh, things happen a lot faster than we
think when, when you're in the ocean,

1348
01:01:07,635 --> 01:01:09,435
uh, and when you see it on, on camera.

1349
01:01:09,435 --> 01:01:09,795
Yeah.

1350
01:01:09,795 --> 01:01:11,355
So that's, and that was a big thing too.

1351
01:01:11,355 --> 01:01:12,885
I mean, we're, we're in a competition.

1352
01:01:12,885 --> 01:01:17,175
We're like super hyper-focused on that,
but at the same time, recognizing that.

1353
01:01:17,549 --> 01:01:21,509
We are here to produce a show, so
we can't do one without the other.

1354
01:01:21,839 --> 01:01:21,930
Sure.

1355
01:01:21,930 --> 01:01:25,500
And and a lot of times, like you see
something awesome and it'd be like,

1356
01:01:25,709 --> 01:01:26,970
we gotta get the cameraman over here.

1357
01:01:27,029 --> 01:01:29,700
'cause it's not that Brendan
and I didn't separate at times.

1358
01:01:29,700 --> 01:01:29,910
Right.

1359
01:01:29,910 --> 01:01:33,180
We tried to stay close,
but currents and, and yeah.

1360
01:01:34,290 --> 01:01:38,580
You know, um, wanting to explore and,
and see things differently, you know?

1361
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:39,584
Um, yeah, for sure.

1362
01:01:40,259 --> 01:01:43,890
And, and then also just the, in terms
of how they did it, they also rotated

1363
01:01:44,069 --> 01:01:47,580
the production teams, the cameramen,
they, they rotated in between the teams.

1364
01:01:47,580 --> 01:01:51,540
So that one team got stuck with
the same group, our production

1365
01:01:51,540 --> 01:01:55,080
team the entire time, which I think
also benefited, uh, the producers.

1366
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:55,290
Right.

1367
01:01:55,290 --> 01:01:58,350
So again, for sure, they had to put
certain people with us that wanted to

1368
01:01:58,350 --> 01:01:59,850
chase us for, for eight hours a day.

1369
01:02:00,660 --> 01:02:01,140
Yeah.

1370
01:02:01,169 --> 01:02:01,410
Yeah.

1371
01:02:01,410 --> 01:02:02,370
I was like, these guys are known.

1372
01:02:02,430 --> 01:02:03,600
They, we know what they're doing.

1373
01:02:03,604 --> 01:02:04,950
We gotta go after we were well known.

1374
01:02:04,955 --> 01:02:05,595
Yeah, yeah.

1375
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:05,819
Yeah.

1376
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,509
You're gonna have Olympic swimmers
following you with, you know, just

1377
01:02:09,509 --> 01:02:10,680
to get to catch up to you guys.

1378
01:02:10,685 --> 01:02:10,875
Yeah.

1379
01:02:11,104 --> 01:02:12,314
Well even that's awesome.

1380
01:02:12,314 --> 01:02:13,049
It was a lot of fun.

1381
01:02:13,350 --> 01:02:16,890
A lot of fun with them too, because
we almost had our own little side

1382
01:02:16,890 --> 01:02:21,720
games with them each day where their
goal was to get shots of sharks with

1383
01:02:21,750 --> 01:02:25,979
us in the foreground that we didn't
see or take pictures of, you know?

1384
01:02:26,009 --> 01:02:26,475
Right, right.

1385
01:02:26,490 --> 01:02:30,839
'cause like Chris and I talked about this
in advance, like the team that we fear the

1386
01:02:30,839 --> 01:02:35,490
most in a competition like this would be
if you took like two of these cameramen

1387
01:02:35,490 --> 01:02:38,410
and made them a team, and so Oh yeah.

1388
01:02:38,410 --> 01:02:38,634
Oh yeah.

1389
01:02:38,634 --> 01:02:38,875
Yeah.

1390
01:02:39,225 --> 01:02:40,430
Because they have eye.

1391
01:02:40,430 --> 01:02:40,670
Right.

1392
01:02:40,819 --> 01:02:42,645
They know what to what
they're looking for.

1393
01:02:42,795 --> 01:02:43,154
Yeah.

1394
01:02:43,214 --> 01:02:43,365
Yeah.

1395
01:02:43,365 --> 01:02:47,384
Which is why when we, we were asked early
on who we feared the most and or who we

1396
01:02:47,384 --> 01:02:48,975
thought would, would take the competition.

1397
01:02:48,975 --> 01:02:51,285
We, we said Dan and Sarah,
and part of that for me is

1398
01:02:51,285 --> 01:02:52,815
Dan's a underwater cameraman.

1399
01:02:52,815 --> 01:02:53,444
We're like, yep.

1400
01:02:53,654 --> 01:02:56,115
He, he's got a lot of experience
in the water looking for sharks.

1401
01:02:56,145 --> 01:02:59,235
We, we knew they were gonna be, you
know, one of the top teams for sure.

1402
01:02:59,745 --> 01:03:00,075
Absolutely.

1403
01:03:00,075 --> 01:03:05,055
And the irony, the irony of how
audiences feel about dam's, Dan's

1404
01:03:05,055 --> 01:03:07,065
camera work in those first few episodes.

1405
01:03:07,065 --> 01:03:07,305
It is.

1406
01:03:07,515 --> 01:03:07,755
Oh yeah.

1407
01:03:07,755 --> 01:03:09,525
I, I think it's really funny.

1408
01:03:09,765 --> 01:03:15,134
It, like, it's great comic relief, but Dan
is actually a great underwater camera man.

1409
01:03:15,555 --> 01:03:16,110
Right, right.

1410
01:03:16,430 --> 01:03:19,455
'cause what happens when you're
so hyper-focused on your, your

1411
01:03:19,455 --> 01:03:21,555
craft is that becomes your focus.

1412
01:03:21,555 --> 01:03:25,335
Whereas for us, we were, we're
not underwater photographer, so

1413
01:03:25,335 --> 01:03:27,315
we were just clicking and shooting
with our GoPro or whatever.

1414
01:03:27,315 --> 01:03:28,455
We didn't care how it turned out.

1415
01:03:28,455 --> 01:03:29,685
We just cared that we got the shot.

1416
01:03:29,775 --> 01:03:32,155
He's looking at lighting, trying to get
a good, he's looking at lighting light.

1417
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:33,370
We don't care about that.

1418
01:03:33,370 --> 01:03:35,140
We're here to win a show
and not best picture.

1419
01:03:35,140 --> 01:03:35,830
Can you see it?

1420
01:03:35,830 --> 01:03:36,580
Can you see it there?

1421
01:03:36,580 --> 01:03:36,790
Yeah.

1422
01:03:36,790 --> 01:03:37,149
Okay.

1423
01:03:37,149 --> 01:03:37,569
Perfect.

1424
01:03:37,569 --> 01:03:38,319
Count that one.

1425
01:03:38,319 --> 01:03:38,740
That's good.

1426
01:03:40,089 --> 01:03:40,540
I love it.

1427
01:03:40,540 --> 01:03:44,049
Look, I have, I, you know, as I mentioned,
I was a big proponent of the show.

1428
01:03:44,350 --> 01:03:48,190
Uh, I wanted to spread it around
just even locally in, in my own city.

1429
01:03:48,190 --> 01:03:51,250
I have good friends of mine who
have recently watched this, and

1430
01:03:51,250 --> 01:03:54,940
one of the, one of the, the, the
young girl is watching it right now.

1431
01:03:55,180 --> 01:03:57,819
Um, hence why I'm not giving,
we're not gonna do any kind

1432
01:03:57,819 --> 01:03:59,109
of spoilers, but they did.

1433
01:03:59,109 --> 01:04:01,299
I asked them, I said, if you
have questions, let me know.

1434
01:04:01,330 --> 01:04:04,210
'cause I'm talking to two, two of the
people who were on the, on the podcast.

1435
01:04:04,210 --> 01:04:10,149
So, uh, one, uh, uh, is is Evan, he's,
he's, uh, an 11-year-old and he said, uh,

1436
01:04:10,315 --> 01:04:14,200
he want to know if the two of you were
ever scared while in the water, whether

1437
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,029
it be sharks or just in the water itself.

1438
01:04:16,035 --> 01:04:17,529
You, you dove in some pretty.

1439
01:04:18,105 --> 01:04:21,345
Beautiful places, but as you
mentioned, some challenging areas.

1440
01:04:21,345 --> 01:04:24,404
You know, I remember Japan
had the, the current, right.

1441
01:04:24,404 --> 01:04:25,785
That was like, that was crazy.

1442
01:04:25,785 --> 01:04:27,884
Even the host went in after to
check it out and be like, yeah,

1443
01:04:27,884 --> 01:04:29,565
this is, this is pretty dangerous.

1444
01:04:29,625 --> 01:04:33,765
Were there, was there any part in
like any of the, the, um, the, the

1445
01:04:33,765 --> 01:04:38,085
places where you were, uh, did the,
were you ever scared at any point?

1446
01:04:40,515 --> 01:04:40,935
Credible?

1447
01:04:41,024 --> 01:04:42,825
There's one that comes to mind for me.

1448
01:04:42,915 --> 01:04:43,395
Yeah.

1449
01:04:43,904 --> 01:04:48,524
Uh, the, the first thing that jumped to
mind was one particular shark, actually.

1450
01:04:49,335 --> 01:04:52,365
Um, and this goes back to the risk
we were talking about earlier.

1451
01:04:52,365 --> 01:04:56,625
Like Chris and I have, there's, I
don't know, there's a weird, there's

1452
01:04:56,625 --> 01:05:00,315
a weird trajectory that you take,
I think in a career like this from

1453
01:05:00,315 --> 01:05:03,674
going, I find like students that you
just get in the water the first time,

1454
01:05:04,004 --> 01:05:06,615
they'll hop in with a tiger shark and
just think it's the most fun ever.

1455
01:05:06,615 --> 01:05:09,555
And they're not a, because they
haven't seen what an animal like that

1456
01:05:09,555 --> 01:05:14,174
is actually capable of when it wants
to, that there's not enough respect.

1457
01:05:14,174 --> 01:05:14,265
Mm-hmm.

1458
01:05:14,629 --> 01:05:15,009
And then.

1459
01:05:15,915 --> 01:05:17,445
It, it just changes
throughout your career.

1460
01:05:17,445 --> 01:05:20,415
And I think both of us at
this point are like, there's a

1461
01:05:20,415 --> 01:05:22,245
very healthy level of respect.

1462
01:05:22,305 --> 01:05:25,424
'cause when you see a tiger shark
take down like three giant poly

1463
01:05:25,424 --> 01:05:29,565
balls, it's the amount of power some
of these animals have is Oh yeah.

1464
01:05:29,565 --> 01:05:31,424
You cannot overstate like they can move.

1465
01:05:31,424 --> 01:05:31,665
Right.

1466
01:05:32,445 --> 01:05:33,980
We're nothing to them, you know?

1467
01:05:33,980 --> 01:05:34,220
Yeah.

1468
01:05:34,785 --> 01:05:40,605
They just don't choose to ever behave that
way in normal circumstances with people.

1469
01:05:40,785 --> 01:05:40,875
Right.

1470
01:05:40,875 --> 01:05:43,515
Which is great for us as people
who like to die with them.

1471
01:05:44,055 --> 01:05:48,134
But once in a while you find an
animal that is not in good shape and

1472
01:05:48,134 --> 01:05:49,695
it's, you know, it's in dire straits.

1473
01:05:49,695 --> 01:05:52,005
And it, there's one, one Galapagos shark.

1474
01:05:52,424 --> 01:05:54,975
And just to be clear, this is
after diving, we were, I don't

1475
01:05:54,975 --> 01:05:57,855
know, there were, we maxed out on
Galapagos Sharks on every dive.

1476
01:05:57,855 --> 01:05:58,500
Like I think you did.

1477
01:05:58,500 --> 01:05:58,660
Yeah.

1478
01:05:58,660 --> 01:06:02,535
There's, there's 50 of 'em on every
dive in the Galapagos and none

1479
01:06:02,535 --> 01:06:04,335
of them gave us a second look.

1480
01:06:04,634 --> 01:06:04,875
Right.

1481
01:06:04,904 --> 01:06:09,765
And then we were snorkeling around,
uh, Darwin's pillars in the shallows.

1482
01:06:09,765 --> 01:06:11,525
We spent a lot of time
snorkeling there and it was.

1483
01:06:12,105 --> 01:06:14,384
Just go like I, it's so beautiful.

1484
01:06:14,384 --> 01:06:15,255
There's so much life.

1485
01:06:15,645 --> 01:06:15,884
Yeah.

1486
01:06:15,915 --> 01:06:17,565
And it's really cool to see.

1487
01:06:18,150 --> 01:06:20,940
Like the, the hammerhead and the
Galapagos are awesome when you're on

1488
01:06:20,940 --> 01:06:24,630
a wall and they're off in the blue,
but then in the shallows around those

1489
01:06:24,660 --> 01:06:26,400
big kind of rocky outcrops mm-hmm.

1490
01:06:26,700 --> 01:06:30,120
They'll just come in and cruise
in like threes and fours along the

1491
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,190
sandy kind of sand rocky bottom.

1492
01:06:32,610 --> 01:06:37,320
Um, and they're in maybe 20, 30 feet of
water and they'll turn and look up at you.

1493
01:06:37,350 --> 01:06:40,110
And so it's just a whole, it's a
completely different perspective.

1494
01:06:40,110 --> 01:06:40,800
So we, yeah.

1495
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,880
In all these places, we tried for
points or not to just explore,

1496
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:46,080
like, we'll never go back.

1497
01:06:46,290 --> 01:06:46,380
Mm-hmm.

1498
01:06:46,710 --> 01:06:51,240
And so we were doing that swimming
around the island, and this one

1499
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,960
Galapagos shark just started
tracking us from the sea floor.

1500
01:06:55,350 --> 01:06:59,850
Um, and it had, it was very, like,
it had a misshapen pectoral fin.

1501
01:07:00,090 --> 01:07:03,390
I think it had some trailing wire
leader, like it had been caught,

1502
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,900
maybe it hadn't been able to
successfully catch prey in a while.

1503
01:07:07,230 --> 01:07:10,140
Um, it looked pretty
emaciated and very banged up.

1504
01:07:10,380 --> 01:07:12,480
And it just tracked us in a way that.

1505
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:16,410
The, you know, the hair on your neck
stands up, you feel like a prey item.

1506
01:07:16,410 --> 01:07:16,590
Hmm.

1507
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:17,370
Wow.

1508
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:21,509
And it's very important, I think
once you've been in the water

1509
01:07:21,509 --> 01:07:23,490
enough, you encounter those animals.

1510
01:07:23,700 --> 01:07:23,820
Yeah.

1511
01:07:23,820 --> 01:07:27,360
And then I think is when you're at like
a healthy level of respect of like,

1512
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:31,680
yeah, 99% of the time there's no problem
here, but there's always the chance.

1513
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:34,470
You never know what is in the
water with you on a particular day.

1514
01:07:34,590 --> 01:07:37,920
And recognizing that animal as
different from all the others,

1515
01:07:37,950 --> 01:07:39,900
we all got out and we moved.

1516
01:07:39,900 --> 01:07:39,990
Right.

1517
01:07:40,410 --> 01:07:44,910
And I think that's where like all the
experience we've had comes into play.

1518
01:07:44,910 --> 01:07:50,580
And, and I just, anytime we talk to anyone
like, or with the public, I just, it's

1519
01:07:50,580 --> 01:07:56,340
very important to emphasize like those
scenarios exist, you know, and those, it's

1520
01:07:56,340 --> 01:07:57,630
good to know when to get outta the water.

1521
01:07:57,630 --> 01:08:00,720
So I was, yeah, I was shaken
up a little by that animal.

1522
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:02,040
I didn't wanna be in with them anymore.

1523
01:08:02,430 --> 01:08:05,370
Brendan and I both looked at, we
both looked at each other and just

1524
01:08:05,370 --> 01:08:07,049
kind of like understood, you know?

1525
01:08:07,380 --> 01:08:07,440
Yeah.

1526
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:08,819
Like, we're out, that
we needed to get out.

1527
01:08:09,005 --> 01:08:12,779
And, and then in that same relative
environment, the shallows is, and I

1528
01:08:12,779 --> 01:08:16,319
don't think the, the filming of that
quite did it justice, but the massive

1529
01:08:16,319 --> 01:08:20,340
tiger shark that we encountered in, in
about six feet of water in the Galapagos,

1530
01:08:20,850 --> 01:08:22,890
um, likely feeding along the shores.

1531
01:08:22,890 --> 01:08:25,800
And it came out in, you
know, just head up on me.

1532
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:27,660
Brendan was a little bit off to the side.

1533
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,500
Um, and it really caught me by surprise.

1534
01:08:31,500 --> 01:08:33,960
Like, people don't regularly see
tiger sharks in the Galapagos.

1535
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:36,000
That's why there were
a crap ton of points.

1536
01:08:36,005 --> 01:08:36,390
Right, right.

1537
01:08:36,510 --> 01:08:40,200
And we didn't, we didn't expect to, we,
that's not what we were there looking for.

1538
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:42,090
And all of a sudden, like, oh God.

1539
01:08:42,210 --> 01:08:43,740
So I had two things going through my mind.

1540
01:08:43,740 --> 01:08:45,059
One was like, oh crap.

1541
01:08:45,390 --> 01:08:49,260
Like that's a freaking massive tiger shark
that was likely just feeding and, and

1542
01:08:49,260 --> 01:08:51,660
like this is a way different experience
than the Maldives where they're.

1543
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:53,100
Seemingly a bit more controlled.

1544
01:08:53,100 --> 01:08:55,350
And then the next part of me is
like, I gotta get a picture of this.

1545
01:08:55,350 --> 01:08:56,220
This is worth a lot of points.

1546
01:08:57,785 --> 01:08:59,205
We still got a game to play here.

1547
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:04,050
So we got a picture of that, had a moment
with it and we got out too because that

1548
01:09:04,050 --> 01:09:05,580
was another one that was a bit off.

1549
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:11,520
Um, and that, that scenario,
it was like that shark was

1550
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,350
just doing normal shark things.

1551
01:09:13,380 --> 01:09:14,850
It was entirely right.

1552
01:09:14,910 --> 01:09:20,970
It was us recognizing we are in this
place where it doesn't expect us and it's

1553
01:09:20,970 --> 01:09:25,590
probably feeding, like probably hunting
turtles or maybe maybe this fur seals

1554
01:09:25,590 --> 01:09:27,750
that are kind, there's a lot of bubbles.

1555
01:09:27,750 --> 01:09:28,875
The environment's very turbulent.

1556
01:09:29,130 --> 01:09:32,610
It was just like, this is the tiger
shark was the most scarred up.

1557
01:09:32,984 --> 01:09:34,035
Shark I've ever seen.

1558
01:09:34,035 --> 01:09:37,035
Like it looked like it had been in
some battles, this thing was gnarly.

1559
01:09:37,304 --> 01:09:40,064
Um, when I talk about it, I
referenced Scar from Lion King.

1560
01:09:40,064 --> 01:09:40,575
Is it just looking?

1561
01:09:40,724 --> 01:09:42,460
I've been through some
stuff and like, interesting.

1562
01:09:42,644 --> 01:09:44,955
And it was just a way
different experience.

1563
01:09:44,955 --> 01:09:48,104
But yeah, again, it's that respect and
that knowledge thing we're running like,

1564
01:09:48,104 --> 01:09:51,734
okay, well, and, and we're in one of the
most remote places in the world, right?

1565
01:09:51,795 --> 01:09:51,884
Yeah.

1566
01:09:51,884 --> 01:09:55,184
Out in the middle of Ecuadorian
Waters in the Galapagos.

1567
01:09:55,575 --> 01:09:58,755
And, um, you know, you don't wanna
mess around in a place like that where

1568
01:09:58,755 --> 01:10:01,425
you're so far away from any absolutely.

1569
01:10:01,485 --> 01:10:03,075
Medical treatment if
something does happen.

1570
01:10:03,075 --> 01:10:03,780
So, no, absolutely.

1571
01:10:03,849 --> 01:10:04,139
Yeah.

1572
01:10:04,275 --> 01:10:07,965
So yeah, I think, I think our experience,
we, and I think the thing with the

1573
01:10:07,965 --> 01:10:11,985
experience in, in these areas too, um,
there's never really a sense of panic.

1574
01:10:12,014 --> 01:10:16,304
It's kind of like, okay, now we, we can
react to this and then figure out our

1575
01:10:16,304 --> 01:10:18,554
best path, but it's never a panic, right?

1576
01:10:18,735 --> 01:10:18,825
Yeah.

1577
01:10:18,825 --> 01:10:21,705
So that, so fear, I don't know if
I would ever use the word fear, but

1578
01:10:21,705 --> 01:10:23,684
definitely like awareness and respect.

1579
01:10:23,684 --> 01:10:23,804
Yeah.

1580
01:10:23,865 --> 01:10:25,780
Um, to get out when it,
enough to know to get.

1581
01:10:26,655 --> 01:10:26,894
Yeah.

1582
01:10:26,894 --> 01:10:30,075
Um, 'cause we also had some incredible,
you know, experiences with other

1583
01:10:30,075 --> 01:10:33,285
things that were unexpected, like
orcas and, um, humpback whales.

1584
01:10:33,285 --> 01:10:33,344
Yeah.

1585
01:10:34,035 --> 01:10:36,855
So we were known as the mammal people,
and Dan made a comment, I think in the

1586
01:10:36,855 --> 01:10:40,575
last episode, like, oh, they're gonna get
distracted by, by, you know, orcas again.

1587
01:10:40,634 --> 01:10:42,795
Like that, that's what we were known for.

1588
01:10:42,795 --> 01:10:45,344
And, and Herron Island, um, you
know, these humpback wells that

1589
01:10:45,344 --> 01:10:48,719
were over wintering there in,
in the, um, on, on the reef.

1590
01:10:48,990 --> 01:10:51,224
Brendan and I were able to head
them up and this didn't make the

1591
01:10:51,224 --> 01:10:54,825
show, but we, um, we were able to
swim right alongside with them.

1592
01:10:54,825 --> 01:10:56,714
We took time outta the day
during the competition.

1593
01:10:56,714 --> 01:10:57,795
We're like, screw it.

1594
01:10:57,884 --> 01:10:59,775
This is again, once in a
while, bucket list, just like

1595
01:10:59,835 --> 01:11:01,184
the orcas bucket bucket list.

1596
01:11:01,275 --> 01:11:04,094
So, swam along with two humpback
wells for a while, just like we

1597
01:11:04,094 --> 01:11:05,625
did the orcas for like 30 minutes.

1598
01:11:05,655 --> 01:11:08,474
Um, yeah, a little, little, you
know, the humpback wells was

1599
01:11:08,474 --> 01:11:09,974
its own beast of an experience.

1600
01:11:10,005 --> 01:11:10,155
Yeah.

1601
01:11:10,605 --> 01:11:10,995
Orcas.

1602
01:11:10,995 --> 01:11:15,405
We had a little baby and two likely
females, um, come up and, and just.

1603
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:17,669
Check us out for, I don't know.

1604
01:11:17,669 --> 01:11:20,129
I mean, it felt like 30 minutes,
it might've been five minutes, but

1605
01:11:20,129 --> 01:11:21,540
it, it was like, doesn't matter.

1606
01:11:21,809 --> 01:11:25,049
Those were two experiences
beyond the sharks that yeah,

1607
01:11:25,290 --> 01:11:26,910
I will never, ever forget.

1608
01:11:26,910 --> 01:11:29,730
And I was so happy to do it with
Brendan too, in, in these places

1609
01:11:29,730 --> 01:11:31,019
because it was just awesome.

1610
01:11:31,769 --> 01:11:32,820
Yeah, no, absolutely.

1611
01:11:33,179 --> 01:11:34,259
That's, that sounds amazing.

1612
01:11:34,264 --> 01:11:36,299
That was actually one of my other
questions was like, what was the

1613
01:11:36,299 --> 01:11:38,639
coolest thing you saw other than sharks?

1614
01:11:38,639 --> 01:11:41,820
Would you put those two experiences
as probably the coolest things?

1615
01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:44,700
Oh, I mean, absolutely.

1616
01:11:44,700 --> 01:11:47,219
Brendan and I, we couldn't stop
talking about the whales afterwards

1617
01:11:47,219 --> 01:11:50,594
and the producers like, stop talking
about the whales, sharks, sharks.

1618
01:11:51,839 --> 01:11:54,450
And by the time we got to the
Galapagos where we saw the orcas,

1619
01:11:54,450 --> 01:11:55,799
we were chasing a bait ball.

1620
01:11:55,860 --> 01:11:57,480
Um, and they happened to be there.

1621
01:11:57,660 --> 01:12:02,129
So we, we were, um, at Darwin because it's
more likely to see whale sharks there.

1622
01:12:02,129 --> 01:12:04,919
That's why we both, you know, we know
Dan and Sarah went there, that episode

1623
01:12:04,919 --> 01:12:10,200
two and gave up while we're, we're pretty
confident that the reason the whale sharks

1624
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,839
weren't there is because these orcas of
the orcas, they were known shark predator.

1625
01:12:13,230 --> 01:12:13,589
Yeah.

1626
01:12:13,710 --> 01:12:13,860
Yeah.

1627
01:12:13,860 --> 01:12:16,650
And so, you know, we had an
incredible time with 'em.

1628
01:12:16,679 --> 01:12:23,129
Um, I mean, there's nothing in the world
more incredible than having these animals

1629
01:12:23,129 --> 01:12:27,420
that are the apex predators in the, in,
in, in an environment, in an ecosystem.

1630
01:12:27,780 --> 01:12:30,750
Come and check you out within
like a foot of you having a, a, a

1631
01:12:30,750 --> 01:12:35,070
juvenile, um, orca come and, and
just having have a moment with you.

1632
01:12:35,099 --> 01:12:37,920
'cause they're looking at you just as much
as you're looking at them in curiosity.

1633
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:38,670
This is a while there.

1634
01:12:38,670 --> 01:12:40,139
They probably haven't
seen a lot of people.

1635
01:12:40,139 --> 01:12:43,410
If, if any, your heart must have
been beating out of your chest.

1636
01:12:43,500 --> 01:12:44,639
Beating out of our chest.

1637
01:12:44,684 --> 01:12:46,424
And, and you know that
they can see that too.

1638
01:12:46,500 --> 01:12:47,280
They can feel that too.

1639
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:48,929
They're like, yeah, this
is pretty cool for us too.

1640
01:12:49,290 --> 01:12:52,349
And then mom comes up underneath
from the depths of the blue,

1641
01:12:52,349 --> 01:12:54,210
like, okay, you guys are safe.

1642
01:12:54,210 --> 01:12:55,320
We won't do anything.

1643
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:58,349
Yeah, we won't, we won't discipline,
you know, our, our young here.

1644
01:12:58,349 --> 01:13:00,809
Um, but Brendan and I,
we made the decision.

1645
01:13:00,809 --> 01:13:01,980
We saw these ORs we're like.

1646
01:13:02,535 --> 01:13:03,945
Once in a lifetime, man.

1647
01:13:03,945 --> 01:13:05,565
Like, I'm we're you got it.

1648
01:13:05,565 --> 01:13:08,055
We get in the water and we
stay with it for quite a while.

1649
01:13:08,055 --> 01:13:08,385
Yeah.

1650
01:13:08,385 --> 01:13:11,655
So those are things I think, um,
you know, we talk about being

1651
01:13:11,655 --> 01:13:13,155
scientists and in the field and stuff.

1652
01:13:14,025 --> 01:13:17,295
There's certain things where you
just can't, you can't pay you enough.

1653
01:13:17,325 --> 01:13:17,415
No.

1654
01:13:17,415 --> 01:13:19,515
Not to be out there for
these types of things.

1655
01:13:19,515 --> 01:13:19,815
Right.

1656
01:13:19,815 --> 01:13:22,335
Like, it's just, it's the memories
that you'll have for, for life.

1657
01:13:22,335 --> 01:13:25,215
You'll be telling, you know, children
and grandchildren and nieces and

1658
01:13:25,215 --> 01:13:28,665
nephews and everybody who you see
like, yeah, I got to dive with

1659
01:13:28,665 --> 01:13:33,045
humpbacks and, and orcas and, uh, you
know, orcas around a bait ball too.

1660
01:13:33,075 --> 01:13:34,395
That's pretty, that's pretty cool.

1661
01:13:34,395 --> 01:13:35,955
Even just being around a bait ball.

1662
01:13:35,985 --> 01:13:39,015
That, that was pretty
incredible, uh, to be around.

1663
01:13:39,075 --> 01:13:40,485
So I just thought, uh, that was cool.

1664
01:13:40,485 --> 01:13:44,655
Now getting back to the sharks, like you
guys got to see a lot of cool sharks.

1665
01:13:44,715 --> 01:13:47,745
What was your favorite, we'll start,
Brendan, we'll start with you.

1666
01:13:48,105 --> 01:13:49,725
What was your favorite shark that you saw?

1667
01:13:51,315 --> 01:13:55,635
Favorite shark species would've
been, I'd say this, South Africa

1668
01:13:55,635 --> 01:13:58,575
was the most surprising location
for me because I'd never.

1669
01:13:58,934 --> 01:14:02,295
I've been to South Africa, but only
diving in a place called Wan Bay, which

1670
01:14:02,295 --> 01:14:04,335
is like up in the northeastern corner.

1671
01:14:04,755 --> 01:14:07,605
And South Africa's really interesting
because there's this warm water current

1672
01:14:07,605 --> 01:14:13,005
that comes from the tropics down along
that, uh, eastern side of Africa.

1673
01:14:13,005 --> 01:14:17,865
So warm water coming down, and then
cold water coming north from Antarctica.

1674
01:14:17,865 --> 01:14:21,915
And so you have so many different
ecosystems in close proximity.

1675
01:14:22,184 --> 01:14:24,495
So even though I'd been there,
I'd only been diving on like

1676
01:14:24,735 --> 01:14:27,105
clear, warm, tropical reefs.

1677
01:14:27,224 --> 01:14:30,705
So then when we get to Port
Elizabeth, it's not that at all.

1678
01:14:31,304 --> 01:14:38,715
You know, it's like rugged coastlines,
rocky reefs, bad visibility, cold water

1679
01:14:39,165 --> 01:14:41,535
that makes for very abundant marine life.

1680
01:14:41,535 --> 01:14:43,514
You know, it's just packed with nutrients.

1681
01:14:43,514 --> 01:14:44,835
There's animals everywhere.

1682
01:14:44,835 --> 01:14:49,425
There's penguins, there's also humpback
whales, like right off the beach.

1683
01:14:49,845 --> 01:14:52,485
Um, there are obviously white
sharks hanging out there.

1684
01:14:52,530 --> 01:14:57,389
Yeah, but the coolest for me, there
were the endemics, like the little shy

1685
01:14:57,389 --> 01:15:02,070
sharks and cat sharks that don't occur
anywhere else that are just so beautiful.

1686
01:15:02,370 --> 01:15:08,340
Um, and they were so interested in the
bait that we were offering them, that

1687
01:15:08,340 --> 01:15:10,080
they'd come just out of the woodwork.

1688
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:15,210
Like when you find them without bait their
face into a ledge, you know, just kind

1689
01:15:15,210 --> 01:15:16,920
of hanging out quietly during the day.

1690
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:20,099
Often stacked up like
three to 10 in a pile.

1691
01:15:20,580 --> 01:15:26,070
Um, but as soon as there's a little
bit of sardine oil in the water, they

1692
01:15:26,070 --> 01:15:27,809
smell it and they all come rushing.

1693
01:15:27,870 --> 01:15:33,090
And so then you've got just all these tiny
little like one to two foot long catch

1694
01:15:33,090 --> 01:15:35,009
sharks and shy sharks cruising around.

1695
01:15:35,460 --> 01:15:36,420
Um, that's pretty cool.

1696
01:15:36,450 --> 01:15:41,099
And yeah, so for me, the leopard catch
shark just absolutely beautiful species.

1697
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:46,349
I think the cool, I mean, I love seeing
it, but I think also it speaks to

1698
01:15:46,559 --> 01:15:48,389
the point of the show, like mm-hmm.

1699
01:15:48,630 --> 01:15:51,780
Sharing that species with
people as a shark that.

1700
01:15:52,125 --> 01:15:55,485
I'd never seen a photo of, I probably
didn't know it existed before going

1701
01:15:55,485 --> 01:15:59,115
there, and then suddenly we're bringing
that to people on their couches in

1702
01:15:59,115 --> 01:16:01,005
a place like Wisconsin or Kentucky.

1703
01:16:01,335 --> 01:16:04,665
Um, you know, that is,
that's pretty awesome.

1704
01:16:04,934 --> 01:16:05,775
Very happy with that one.

1705
01:16:05,775 --> 01:16:07,934
And I'll, I'll keep mine short.

1706
01:16:07,934 --> 01:16:10,785
I, I just, I feel like I answered
this question differently.

1707
01:16:10,785 --> 01:16:14,264
Everyone, every time someone asked
me, because I, you remember different

1708
01:16:14,264 --> 01:16:15,405
sharks that you've seen right?

1709
01:16:15,405 --> 01:16:16,545
Re remember different sharks.

1710
01:16:16,545 --> 01:16:20,565
Every, every place we went to
had its own magical appeal.

1711
01:16:20,565 --> 01:16:24,315
I mean, we were going to some of the
most biodiverse, many times protected

1712
01:16:24,315 --> 01:16:27,014
areas for sharks and rays on the planet.

1713
01:16:27,014 --> 01:16:31,215
So we're seeing the best of the best and
it's really hard to compare and contrast.

1714
01:16:31,215 --> 01:16:34,695
So for me, yeah, I, I bring up South
Africa quite often too because of all

1715
01:16:34,695 --> 01:16:38,865
the endemics, the puff had a shy shark
was one I was really excited to see.

1716
01:16:38,925 --> 01:16:41,415
Um, and again, like Brendan
said, a lot of times people

1717
01:16:41,415 --> 01:16:42,585
don't even know these are sharks.

1718
01:16:42,585 --> 01:16:45,495
I ones that I had never seen and
I had only recently read about.

1719
01:16:45,495 --> 01:16:45,795
Right.

1720
01:16:46,155 --> 01:16:47,595
Um, as, as our, um.

1721
01:16:48,045 --> 01:16:49,275
Are planning into the trip.

1722
01:16:49,275 --> 01:16:53,895
So yeah, some of the animals that I
would've never seen or knew existed as

1723
01:16:53,895 --> 01:16:56,985
much as that probably appealed to the
public, also appealed to us as scientists.

1724
01:16:56,985 --> 01:16:57,075
Mm-hmm.

1725
01:16:57,315 --> 01:16:57,915
In, in this field.

1726
01:16:57,915 --> 01:17:02,805
And then, you know, as the wedge fish in,
in, um, in Australia there's the, the wbe

1727
01:17:02,805 --> 01:17:08,235
I had been in Australia 20 years prior to,
and then saw quite a few wabe gongs in a

1728
01:17:08,235 --> 01:17:09,795
completely different part of Australia.

1729
01:17:09,795 --> 01:17:13,605
And, and I think when, when Brendan
found this one, the tased wabe gong

1730
01:17:13,965 --> 01:17:16,935
on our dive, I'm just, that I could
have spent all day just there.

1731
01:17:16,965 --> 01:17:17,325
Right.

1732
01:17:17,355 --> 01:17:19,485
Um, just watching that, that little dude.

1733
01:17:20,085 --> 01:17:23,625
Um, and then, and then there's also
the favorite dives and then there's

1734
01:17:23,625 --> 01:17:27,855
like the, the tiger shark and the
Galapagos honestly was like a, as

1735
01:17:27,975 --> 01:17:30,675
kind of freaky as that experience was.

1736
01:17:30,675 --> 01:17:31,905
It was one of my favorite moments.

1737
01:17:31,935 --> 01:17:33,045
'cause it was so exciting.

1738
01:17:33,045 --> 01:17:37,125
It was a, a, a, you know, we're in
a competition, so it's not just the

1739
01:17:37,125 --> 01:17:39,585
sharks, it's also like, oh my God.

1740
01:17:39,585 --> 01:17:42,525
Like this is where so many points, so your
start heart starts racing because of that.

1741
01:17:42,525 --> 01:17:45,705
So that emotional attachment ends
up being part of your experience.

1742
01:17:46,290 --> 01:17:48,930
On top of the fact that you're
seeing cool animals in cool places.

1743
01:17:48,930 --> 01:17:51,810
So hard for me to answer
that, but, um, no, for sure.

1744
01:17:51,810 --> 01:17:55,920
I mean, you guys got to like, every
place that I kept hearing them say,

1745
01:17:56,340 --> 01:17:58,140
I was like, oh man, that is so cool.

1746
01:17:58,140 --> 01:17:59,250
Like, oh really?

1747
01:17:59,250 --> 01:18:00,150
Oh, that's awesome.

1748
01:18:00,150 --> 01:18:03,330
Like, it's, it's, uh, it's
a, it's a trip of a lifetime.

1749
01:18:03,390 --> 01:18:05,040
Uh, an experience of a lifetime.

1750
01:18:05,310 --> 01:18:06,510
Let me ask you this.

1751
01:18:06,540 --> 01:18:09,450
When it was all said and done, after
you had watched the show, I'm sure

1752
01:18:09,450 --> 01:18:12,570
a sigh of relief kind of came out
'cause you knew how it came out.

1753
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,240
Uh, were you, were you happy
with the way it turned out?

1754
01:18:15,270 --> 01:18:16,410
I should ask that first.

1755
01:18:17,175 --> 01:18:18,915
Um, I can start Brendan.

1756
01:18:19,170 --> 01:18:20,555
Um, yes.

1757
01:18:21,115 --> 01:18:23,700
I, I think ultimately we
were, we were very pleased.

1758
01:18:23,700 --> 01:18:25,770
I was very pleased with the
way the, the show came out.

1759
01:18:25,770 --> 01:18:31,890
I mean, two major goals, you know, for
this one, have an adventure of a lifetime.

1760
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:32,820
Yeah.

1761
01:18:32,820 --> 01:18:36,450
One of my best friends, like, there's
nothing else that I could have

1762
01:18:36,450 --> 01:18:39,180
spent two months doing that would've
probably been better than this

1763
01:18:39,210 --> 01:18:40,440
adventure that we were on together.

1764
01:18:41,099 --> 01:18:44,519
And then as a, as a second thing is
the reason why we probably really did

1765
01:18:44,519 --> 01:18:47,519
it, especially in in our busy lives
and careers, is we wanted to have

1766
01:18:47,519 --> 01:18:49,530
a, a bigger conservation platform.

1767
01:18:49,530 --> 01:18:49,769
You know?

1768
01:18:49,775 --> 01:18:49,985
Mm-hmm.

1769
01:18:50,065 --> 01:18:53,010
We continued to do things as shark
docs after the fact, and, um, yep.

1770
01:18:53,010 --> 01:18:55,590
We encourage people to, to follow us
and check that out because we're, yeah.

1771
01:18:55,590 --> 01:18:58,080
We'll put that link in the,
to, in please do show notes.

1772
01:18:58,440 --> 01:18:58,650
Yeah.

1773
01:18:58,679 --> 01:19:00,809
We're continuing to build on
that conservation platform,

1774
01:19:00,809 --> 01:19:02,010
which is one of our intentions.

1775
01:19:02,010 --> 01:19:05,670
We both do a lot of good work through
our, um, our current positions in our,

1776
01:19:05,730 --> 01:19:09,870
in our jobs, but we wanted to have
something different, and so for us,

1777
01:19:09,870 --> 01:19:12,599
this was storytelling in a way that
we couldn't do it on our own, and

1778
01:19:12,660 --> 01:19:14,700
the whole edutainment sort of, yeah.

1779
01:19:14,730 --> 01:19:18,059
Concept that we've learned about,
as, you know, feeding people

1780
01:19:18,090 --> 01:19:20,760
accidental knowledge when they're
not expecting it, kind of a concept.

1781
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:24,510
So I think we've just been really trying
to figure out what our next move is

1782
01:19:24,510 --> 01:19:29,639
to, to keep building off of that, you
know, the, the peak of the show and, and

1783
01:19:29,639 --> 01:19:32,760
probably like the excitement around it
is starting to wane a little bit, but

1784
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:36,750
we're trying to continue to build off
of that and, and figure out, you know,

1785
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:39,599
what else we can do to continue to, yeah.

1786
01:19:40,350 --> 01:19:44,970
Explore and really push positive
conservation messaging as we both feel.

1787
01:19:44,970 --> 01:19:47,040
We have a lot to, to offer in that field.

1788
01:19:48,180 --> 01:19:48,930
How about you, Brendan?

1789
01:19:48,930 --> 01:19:52,620
Were you happy with the overall
turnout and then your experience after?

1790
01:19:54,090 --> 01:19:58,770
Yeah, I was, you know, none of
us knew, none of the contestants

1791
01:19:58,770 --> 01:20:03,390
knew during filming that this was
gonna turn into a family show.

1792
01:20:04,530 --> 01:20:10,140
Um, it sounds like the producers had
that in mind and it, it's a genius move.

1793
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:15,090
You know, shark Week, shark Fest
often have a lot of like more dramatic

1794
01:20:15,090 --> 01:20:18,420
scenes and some blood and stuff
like that and it's scary for kids.

1795
01:20:18,630 --> 01:20:18,690
Yeah.

1796
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:22,950
And so the folks at Netflix realized,
like, you know, how great would it be for

1797
01:20:22,950 --> 01:20:27,660
families to be able to watch a show about
sharks where they don't have to be afraid?

1798
01:20:27,750 --> 01:20:31,080
Where every encounter is positive
and people are excited about it.

1799
01:20:31,710 --> 01:20:31,950
Yeah.

1800
01:20:32,130 --> 01:20:35,040
And so I. I didn't know
that that was coming.

1801
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:39,929
And so the response we've had from
kids, like, like these kids that you

1802
01:20:39,929 --> 01:20:44,009
know, who are asking some of these
questions, um, has just been amazing.

1803
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:50,759
Like if, if we have a fan base at
all, it's, it's like 11 to 13-year-old

1804
01:20:50,759 --> 01:20:55,980
boys who are just pumped about
sharks and, and science and diving.

1805
01:20:55,980 --> 01:21:01,530
And, um, I think the, the current
statistics that I've heard is that it

1806
01:21:01,530 --> 01:21:05,549
was number, the show was number one in
Netflix, family in like over 50 countries.

1807
01:21:05,940 --> 01:21:11,490
Um, so if you had told mes that that's
what would happen if we participated, or

1808
01:21:11,490 --> 01:21:15,150
like, if that's how good the show would
do when we had that initial contract,

1809
01:21:15,150 --> 01:21:17,250
I would've just signed it on the spot.

1810
01:21:17,490 --> 01:21:17,549
Yeah.

1811
01:21:17,549 --> 01:21:19,049
You know, so, yeah, for sure.

1812
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:19,349
Yeah.

1813
01:21:19,740 --> 01:21:23,070
We, I know different people have
like different criticisms of

1814
01:21:23,070 --> 01:21:24,839
it, and a lot of 'em are valid.

1815
01:21:24,839 --> 01:21:28,889
Like we, yeah, you can, you can
poke holes in anything but overall

1816
01:21:28,950 --> 01:21:30,150
like forest through the trees.

1817
01:21:30,855 --> 01:21:31,875
Incredible job.

1818
01:21:31,875 --> 01:21:33,735
We're so thrilled to
have been a part of it.

1819
01:21:34,095 --> 01:21:39,075
Um, and hopefully this is just another
like, contribution among all these

1820
01:21:39,075 --> 01:21:42,795
random things that we do that's on
the positive side of the equation.

1821
01:21:43,515 --> 01:21:49,785
Would you do, would you both, uh,
do show similar or other shows like

1822
01:21:49,785 --> 01:21:56,865
documentaries, uh, say like from
Shark Fest or even Shark Week again or

1823
01:21:56,865 --> 01:22:00,075
something new, like do a television show
again, but in like a different type.

1824
01:22:00,075 --> 01:22:03,435
Like if, I guess if all the Sharks asked
you to do it again, would you do it again?

1825
01:22:04,275 --> 01:22:05,144
All the sharks, yes.

1826
01:22:05,175 --> 01:22:07,635
'cause now we want to, to
trust the producers right.

1827
01:22:07,635 --> 01:22:07,815
To us.

1828
01:22:08,055 --> 01:22:09,915
I think it's gonna be more of the same.

1829
01:22:09,915 --> 01:22:13,335
Like, um, we're gonna be very carefully
vetting any opportunity that comes our

1830
01:22:13,335 --> 01:22:17,025
way because we're not going to, of course
I'm not, I don't wanna speak for Brendan.

1831
01:22:17,025 --> 01:22:19,845
I'm not gonna be quick to, to
jump into something without

1832
01:22:19,905 --> 01:22:21,345
really understanding what it is.

1833
01:22:21,375 --> 01:22:21,765
Um.

1834
01:22:22,335 --> 01:22:24,554
And I'll take any role that's offered.

1835
01:22:29,625 --> 01:22:29,865
Yeah.

1836
01:22:29,865 --> 01:22:30,255
Right.

1837
01:22:30,764 --> 01:22:32,720
That is not the Yeah, right.

1838
01:22:32,990 --> 01:22:36,165
Well, if it's, well, if it's something
that ridiculous like sharknato, you

1839
01:22:36,165 --> 01:22:38,894
know, that it's, oh, I think, you know,
people know not to take it seriously.

1840
01:22:38,894 --> 01:22:42,195
It's this fine line between something
that could be be real in something that's

1841
01:22:42,644 --> 01:22:45,434
not, that really, you've gotta be careful,
you've gotta be careful with that.

1842
01:22:45,434 --> 01:22:46,755
So, yeah.

1843
01:22:46,755 --> 01:22:51,644
I mean, ultimately there's a major, um,
the excitement that, that surrounded

1844
01:22:51,644 --> 01:22:55,545
this over a, a paper that, you know,
I've published is way different.

1845
01:22:55,545 --> 01:22:55,875
Right.

1846
01:22:55,934 --> 01:23:00,585
Um, you just, you gain the attention
of a whole new audience that you

1847
01:23:00,585 --> 01:23:02,595
wouldn't get in just the science field.

1848
01:23:02,595 --> 01:23:05,264
So I think things like
this are necessary Yeah.

1849
01:23:05,264 --> 01:23:06,615
To reach a broader audience.

1850
01:23:06,615 --> 01:23:08,535
But again, it has to be done carefully.

1851
01:23:08,535 --> 01:23:10,905
And I think these, the,
the producers of this show.

1852
01:23:11,460 --> 01:23:14,639
Did it Well, and, and I, I
hope there's a future for this.

1853
01:23:14,639 --> 01:23:16,799
'cause I, I think, yeah,
it was well received.

1854
01:23:16,860 --> 01:23:21,000
Um, but, you know, it's a, it's
a game of, um, of money to a

1855
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:22,139
lot of these major networks too.

1856
01:23:22,139 --> 01:23:23,730
And, and so if they can't, I don't know.

1857
01:23:23,730 --> 01:23:26,190
I'm, I'm hopeful that, that things
like this, if not this show in

1858
01:23:26,190 --> 01:23:28,440
particular, uh, will have more seasons.

1859
01:23:28,860 --> 01:23:32,339
But I think they're going in
a good positive direction that

1860
01:23:32,339 --> 01:23:34,250
both Brendan and I mm-hmm.

1861
01:23:34,250 --> 01:23:34,775
Can, um, align with.

1862
01:23:35,639 --> 01:23:36,000
I agree.

1863
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:38,820
I was very, uh, relieved to see.

1864
01:23:39,584 --> 01:23:41,054
This show come out on Netflix.

1865
01:23:41,084 --> 01:23:44,535
They've had a couple of other programs,
uh, that we will not be mentioning.

1866
01:23:44,535 --> 01:23:48,014
I've mentioned on this, on this program
before that I have, you know, as

1867
01:23:48,014 --> 01:23:51,735
scientists, we haven't been, I haven't
been very happy with in the past.

1868
01:23:51,735 --> 01:23:55,455
I can't speak for, for everybody, but,
uh, I know other scientists who haven't.

1869
01:23:55,785 --> 01:23:58,245
Uh, and so it's nice to have
something that's positive.

1870
01:23:58,245 --> 01:24:00,554
It's nice to have something family
oriented, especially about sharks to

1871
01:24:00,554 --> 01:24:04,455
really change that narrative, especially
for, for young kids about sharks and

1872
01:24:04,455 --> 01:24:06,794
really bring back that curiosity.

1873
01:24:06,794 --> 01:24:09,884
A lot of sort of like the voices
that you guys were saying.

1874
01:24:10,155 --> 01:24:12,075
Uh, you know, every time you saw
a shark, every time you see an

1875
01:24:12,075 --> 01:24:13,605
overhang or like, oh, this is cool.

1876
01:24:13,605 --> 01:24:16,125
I've never seen one of these before,
and all this kind of stuff, I think.

1877
01:24:16,530 --> 01:24:19,860
That really helped bring that, it
showed that passion that, that all

1878
01:24:19,860 --> 01:24:23,429
of you had, um, especially the two
of you to, to be able to get to this.

1879
01:24:23,429 --> 01:24:25,500
And I think the strategy that
you had, I think was fun.

1880
01:24:25,500 --> 01:24:28,740
'cause it really gamified it, you
know, it showed that, yeah, this was

1881
01:24:28,740 --> 01:24:33,540
still a competition and uh, I thought
you guys did, uh, a very good job.

1882
01:24:33,750 --> 01:24:36,480
Uh, everybody, all the contestants
did a very good job at, at coming

1883
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:39,269
around and getting the, the
motion across that science is fun.

1884
01:24:39,269 --> 01:24:44,250
It's all about curiosity, it's about
exploring, um, using that scientific mind

1885
01:24:44,250 --> 01:24:47,969
of yours and, and really getting into it,
but also using that creative mind and, and

1886
01:24:48,089 --> 01:24:51,509
doing a big, like a, it is a fairly big
production and so it's a really cool thing

1887
01:24:51,509 --> 01:24:54,370
that you guys got to do and I'm really
happy you, you were able to do that and.

1888
01:24:54,945 --> 01:24:56,775
Being a part of a show
that shows so many sharks.

1889
01:24:56,775 --> 01:24:57,585
I thought that was really cool.

1890
01:24:57,585 --> 01:25:00,975
So I appreciate all this and, and
I'm, I'm not a shark scientist.

1891
01:25:00,975 --> 01:25:02,775
I do have another podcast beyond John.

1892
01:25:02,985 --> 01:25:05,805
We'll have to have you guys on
individually get your full careers on

1893
01:25:05,805 --> 01:25:10,635
with, with, uh, David Ebert, um, who is
someone that if, if, if they're having

1894
01:25:10,635 --> 01:25:13,065
another season, I don't know if they're
having another season, that's the guy

1895
01:25:13,065 --> 01:25:17,030
you call because he knows where every
shark is everywhere, so, absolutely.

1896
01:25:17,050 --> 01:25:19,335
You know, that's the Well, we're
also scared of who else they would

1897
01:25:19,335 --> 01:25:20,505
bring in for a second season.

1898
01:25:20,685 --> 01:25:24,270
Somebody like him might be very
dangerous to, to see the kids seen.

1899
01:25:24,270 --> 01:25:24,390
Yeah.

1900
01:25:24,390 --> 01:25:28,365
I had the same conversation with, with
Mike Hit house and, um, Yas Papa too.

1901
01:25:28,365 --> 01:25:30,705
And I'm just like, if you
guys were part of the show.

1902
01:25:31,365 --> 01:25:32,565
That's gonna be Oh yeah.

1903
01:25:32,565 --> 01:25:34,515
I told, I told David he was on there.

1904
01:25:34,515 --> 01:25:37,245
He goes, oh, he goes, he goes, if
I could scuba dive like I used to,

1905
01:25:37,245 --> 01:25:40,965
he's like, I would be on that show
in a second, you know, but he'd be

1906
01:25:40,965 --> 01:25:42,585
too busy, like identifying them all.

1907
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:45,825
He'd be like going, he'd probably
find a new species out there.

1908
01:25:47,145 --> 01:25:47,625
Exactly.

1909
01:25:48,195 --> 01:25:50,175
He wouldn't care about
the competition anymore.

1910
01:25:50,175 --> 01:25:51,690
He's like, just get to these locations.

1911
01:25:52,005 --> 01:25:52,215
Yeah.

1912
01:25:52,215 --> 01:25:53,355
Every location he goes.

1913
01:25:53,355 --> 01:25:54,375
He is just, that's new.

1914
01:25:54,375 --> 01:25:55,905
I don't know what that is, but that's new.

1915
01:25:55,905 --> 01:25:56,565
I'm gonna tell you that.

1916
01:25:56,565 --> 01:25:56,865
Right.

1917
01:25:57,165 --> 01:26:00,435
I can see the, the, the cameraman
just being like, I don't know.

1918
01:26:00,495 --> 01:26:01,575
I don't know what this is.

1919
01:26:02,085 --> 01:26:02,955
We'll just get shark.

1920
01:26:02,955 --> 01:26:06,315
So, we'll, well, you know, the quick
work to, um, the quick work of the

1921
01:26:06,315 --> 01:26:10,965
production team too, keep in mind like
all these, um, species that we identified

1922
01:26:11,235 --> 01:26:14,925
and had and had to get validated or
verified, um, they were going off to

1923
01:26:14,925 --> 01:26:17,205
experts to, and turning those around.

1924
01:26:17,460 --> 01:26:18,764
In a very quick period of time.

1925
01:26:18,764 --> 01:26:20,924
So there was a lot of
planning that went into that.

1926
01:26:21,464 --> 01:26:21,525
Yeah.

1927
01:26:21,525 --> 01:26:24,315
If we're gonna new areas and, and
species that a lot of us had not

1928
01:26:24,315 --> 01:26:27,255
experienced and we had to get those
like, oh, we think that's what it is.

1929
01:26:27,255 --> 01:26:28,335
We're sure that's what it is.

1930
01:26:28,335 --> 01:26:30,434
But they had to verify
that to give us points.

1931
01:26:30,434 --> 01:26:32,415
So that was, it was a
big job on their part.

1932
01:26:32,625 --> 01:26:37,304
And I did love the cards, like of the,
the, the post editing, uh, team did the

1933
01:26:37,304 --> 01:26:41,025
cards of like showing what species is
where it is and all that kind of stuff.

1934
01:26:41,115 --> 01:26:44,295
I thought that was, uh, that was really
cool what they were able to do and,

1935
01:26:44,505 --> 01:26:46,035
and provide that educational source.

1936
01:26:46,634 --> 01:26:47,985
Don't tell 'em, but I
still have a couple cards.

1937
01:26:48,735 --> 01:26:49,755
Oh, that's awesome.

1938
01:26:49,815 --> 01:26:51,045
That is so cool.

1939
01:26:51,375 --> 01:26:52,724
That is so much fun.

1940
01:26:52,730 --> 01:26:53,040
Right on.

1941
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:53,590
Don't tell 'em I have those.

1942
01:26:55,339 --> 01:26:57,165
But guys, this has been fantastic.

1943
01:26:57,165 --> 01:26:59,054
It's really been fun
to get to know you all.

1944
01:26:59,054 --> 01:27:01,695
I really appreciate you coming
on and giving us your experience.

1945
01:27:01,934 --> 01:27:03,825
Um, and I just think
it's, it's phenomenal.

1946
01:27:03,825 --> 01:27:07,514
I'd love to have both of you back on
together individually to share the

1947
01:27:07,514 --> 01:27:10,514
science that you guys do, um, and
get to know a little bit more about

1948
01:27:10,514 --> 01:27:12,105
that as we go, as we go forward.

1949
01:27:12,105 --> 01:27:13,724
So thank you so much for,
for coming on the show.

1950
01:27:14,325 --> 01:27:14,955
Thanks for having us.

1951
01:27:14,955 --> 01:27:15,434
Awesome, Andrew.

1952
01:27:15,495 --> 01:27:15,674
Yeah.

1953
01:27:15,674 --> 01:27:16,240
Appreciate you.

1954
01:27:16,815 --> 01:27:17,144
You bet.

1955
01:27:18,495 --> 01:27:19,155
Thank you, Chris.

1956
01:27:19,155 --> 01:27:21,285
Thank you, Brendan, for joining
us on today's episode of the How

1957
01:27:21,285 --> 01:27:22,275
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1958
01:27:22,275 --> 01:27:25,155
It was really great to be able
to, you know, get a peek into

1959
01:27:25,155 --> 01:27:27,855
the journey and behind the
scenes of a production like this.

1960
01:27:27,855 --> 01:27:30,945
This is something that is pretty new
to a lot of people, including myself.

1961
01:27:31,035 --> 01:27:36,045
Not necessarily TV production, but also
like looking at a reality show that has

1962
01:27:36,045 --> 01:27:40,155
a positive outcome that looks at positive
things, and that is very challenging

1963
01:27:40,155 --> 01:27:44,025
from a diving perspective, I am not an
experienced diver, to say the least.

1964
01:27:44,025 --> 01:27:47,175
I've gone diving a number of times,
but I wouldn't say that I've seen a

1965
01:27:47,175 --> 01:27:51,705
lot of different scenarios like they
did in these challenging waters where

1966
01:27:51,705 --> 01:27:56,505
there, you know, Japan was a lot
of currents we saw in South Africa.

1967
01:27:56,505 --> 01:28:00,045
It was cold as well as the
visibility wasn't that great.

1968
01:28:00,255 --> 01:28:03,375
As you can see, it was green water, but
very productive as Brendan mentioned.

1969
01:28:03,465 --> 01:28:06,585
It was just really cool and I think
something that we should all check

1970
01:28:06,585 --> 01:28:09,585
out sometime if you're divers and
something to look out for if you're

1971
01:28:09,585 --> 01:28:12,525
a diver or scientist or underwater
photographer, underwater camera person.

1972
01:28:12,690 --> 01:28:15,599
I would love to hear what your
thoughts were about the show.

1973
01:28:15,750 --> 01:28:17,130
Did you love the content?

1974
01:28:17,130 --> 01:28:18,840
Did you love the diving experience?

1975
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:20,040
Did you love the cinema photography?

1976
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:20,910
Did you not like it?

1977
01:28:20,910 --> 01:28:21,900
Love to hear your thoughts.

1978
01:28:21,900 --> 01:28:24,630
Let me know in the comments below if
you're listening to this on YouTube, or

1979
01:28:24,630 --> 01:28:29,250
you can hit me up through my email by
going to speak up for blue.com/contact,

1980
01:28:29,250 --> 01:28:32,730
and then you can DM me on Instagram
at How to Protect the Ocean.

1981
01:28:32,730 --> 01:28:35,790
And obviously I will have all the
links so you can connect with Chris

1982
01:28:35,790 --> 01:28:37,290
and Brendan in the show notes.

1983
01:28:37,290 --> 01:28:40,650
So check those out and check out all
the sharks if you have it on Netflix.

1984
01:28:40,650 --> 01:28:42,299
It's a really great show, a lot of fun.

1985
01:28:42,540 --> 01:28:45,809
Six episodes I binged in one night,
and it was a lot of fun to see.

1986
01:28:45,870 --> 01:28:47,490
So that's it for today's episode.

1987
01:28:47,490 --> 01:28:48,870
Thank you again to Brendan and Chris.

1988
01:28:48,990 --> 01:28:52,080
We really appreciate you guys for
listening to this and we'd love to

1989
01:28:52,110 --> 01:28:54,240
have you back for more episodes.

1990
01:28:54,240 --> 01:28:57,870
To learn more about the ocean, I wanna
thank you for joining me on this episode

1991
01:28:57,900 --> 01:28:59,490
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1992
01:28:59,490 --> 01:29:02,190
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from
the True Nord Strong and Free.

1993
01:29:02,190 --> 01:29:02,820
Have a great day.

1994
01:29:02,820 --> 01:29:04,830
We'll talk to you next time
and happy conservation.