Marineland Canada Shuts Down: The Beluga Whale Rescue Begins

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,870
This week we saw the
end of Marineland Canada.

2
00:00:04,220 --> 00:00:08,983
If you're not familiar, Marineland
Canada is a marine theme park in Canada.

3
00:00:09,013 --> 00:00:13,193
It's in Niagara Falls, Ontario, just about
45 minutes away from me where I live.

4
00:00:13,416 --> 00:00:17,690
I grew up going to this Marineland
or watching the commercials.

5
00:00:17,690 --> 00:00:20,183
We only went a couple of times, but
watching the commercials where they're

6
00:00:20,183 --> 00:00:22,273
saying, "Everyone loves Marineland."

7
00:00:22,283 --> 00:00:25,923
But not anymore, because it is
officially going to shut down.

8
00:00:26,113 --> 00:00:30,613
The last part of them shutting
down was to move a number of beluga

9
00:00:30,613 --> 00:00:32,940
whales that were in dire straits.

10
00:00:33,173 --> 00:00:33,853
They are sick.

11
00:00:33,873 --> 00:00:35,373
There's a bad water quality.

12
00:00:35,393 --> 00:00:37,316
The park couldn't take
care of them anymore.

13
00:00:37,473 --> 00:00:41,460
And now six of them are being
moved to different marine

14
00:00:41,460 --> 00:00:44,000
aquariums throughout the US.

15
00:00:44,030 --> 00:00:47,500
And so we're gonna talk a little bit about
that on today's episode of the How to

16
00:00:47,500 --> 00:00:51,523
Protect the Ocean podcast, ' cause it's
big news, and we come here for big news.

17
00:00:51,663 --> 00:00:55,463
I am here to update you on all things
that have to do with the ocean, especially

18
00:00:55,463 --> 00:00:59,379
science and conservation, and this
falls under the conservation part of it.

19
00:00:59,506 --> 00:01:01,633
We talk ocean every Monday through Friday.

20
00:01:01,633 --> 00:01:02,263
That's what we do.

21
00:01:02,273 --> 00:01:03,753
We enjoy talking about that.

22
00:01:03,836 --> 00:01:08,216
And I inform you, you answer back
on TikTok and on Instagram, and you

23
00:01:08,216 --> 00:01:11,023
can DM me and all that fun stuff,
and we can have conversations.

24
00:01:11,023 --> 00:01:12,503
So this is where we
start the conversation.

25
00:01:12,503 --> 00:01:15,243
If you enjoy that kind of
stuff, follow the podcast if

26
00:01:15,243 --> 00:01:16,390
you haven't followed it already.

27
00:01:16,533 --> 00:01:20,623
But also, if you enjoy it so much that
you wanna support me in all the work that

28
00:01:20,623 --> 00:01:24,913
I do, not only here but on obviously your
favorite podcast app, YouTube, on TikTok,

29
00:01:24,933 --> 00:01:28,233
on Instagram, on Facebook, on all the
social media platforms like LinkedIn,

30
00:01:28,423 --> 00:01:30,606
all that kind of stuff, let me know.

31
00:01:30,656 --> 00:01:35,406
If you wanna support me, you can do that
by going to speakupforblue.com/patreon.

32
00:01:35,940 --> 00:01:39,160
That's speakupforblue.com/patreon.

33
00:01:39,373 --> 00:01:40,473
Let's get into this.

34
00:01:40,473 --> 00:01:43,593
Let's talk about, how
did we even get here?

35
00:01:43,820 --> 00:01:47,713
Because this is something that
has been in the works for a while.

36
00:01:47,713 --> 00:01:52,073
I started talking about the Marineland
moving or wanting to move these

37
00:01:52,073 --> 00:01:55,803
belugas away from Marineland,
because they couldn't take care, they

38
00:01:55,823 --> 00:01:56,963
couldn't afford taking care of them.

39
00:01:56,963 --> 00:01:59,043
If they couldn't take care of them,
they were gonna have to euthanize them,

40
00:01:59,043 --> 00:02:00,563
which is preposterous, to be honest.

41
00:02:00,563 --> 00:02:02,663
Like, it's ridiculous to
even think about this.

42
00:02:02,813 --> 00:02:05,933
But they were gonna move
them to an aquarium in China.

43
00:02:06,076 --> 00:02:09,446
And this is where everything kinda like
made headlines and things like that.

44
00:02:09,456 --> 00:02:11,456
We couldn't do that, and there's
a number of reasons for that.

45
00:02:11,606 --> 00:02:14,880
But first I wanna kinda go through
what Marineland is all about.

46
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,270
Where did we go and where did we get here?

47
00:02:17,270 --> 00:02:20,399
So I got a bit of a timeline to go through
of everything that's happened, and then

48
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,123
we're gonna dive deep into some of the
stuff that's happened most recently.

49
00:02:23,273 --> 00:02:27,653
So in 1961, John Haller founds
Marineland in Niagara Falls, Ontario.

50
00:02:27,743 --> 00:02:30,723
29 different killer whales
have lived there over the

51
00:02:30,723 --> 00:02:32,863
decades, with 11 born on site.

52
00:02:32,863 --> 00:02:35,613
In the 1980s, we saw protests begin.

53
00:02:35,853 --> 00:02:39,313
So a former teenage employee named
Frank, having seen firsthand how

54
00:02:39,313 --> 00:02:42,893
animals were treated, becomes one of
the earliest public critics, inspiring

55
00:02:42,893 --> 00:02:44,873
protests that continue for decades.

56
00:02:45,003 --> 00:02:49,909
Marineland later purchases the Green
Oaks Trailer Park in 2004, and by 2009,

57
00:02:50,073 --> 00:02:53,733
forty-seven neighboring families receive
eviction notices as part of the park's

58
00:02:53,733 --> 00:02:57,960
expansion, adding to the local land
use grievance to the animal welfare one.

59
00:02:58,030 --> 00:03:00,040
So it's adding to all
these different protests.

60
00:03:00,070 --> 00:03:04,623
By the 1990s and early 2000s, animal
rights groups start raising alarms

61
00:03:04,643 --> 00:03:09,060
about enclosure size, animal behavior,
and the ethics of keeping whales

62
00:03:09,060 --> 00:03:10,700
and dolphins for entertainment.

63
00:03:10,883 --> 00:03:14,733
These concerns are largely overshadowed by
the park's popularity and its ubiquitous

64
00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,160
Everyone Loves Marineland ad campaign.

65
00:03:17,170 --> 00:03:21,080
Like I said, that jingle will be in
my head forever because I watched so

66
00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,620
many commercials on it in the '90s.

67
00:03:22,660 --> 00:03:25,940
I was a teenager in the '90s, and
even in the '80s when we heard these

68
00:03:25,940 --> 00:03:27,270
campaigns, I mean, it was crazy.

69
00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:28,490
It was just all over the place.

70
00:03:28,655 --> 00:03:33,422
In August, 2012, the Toronto Star
did an exposé, and this is the

71
00:03:33,422 --> 00:03:37,092
real turning point before 2016
where we saw some charges laid.

72
00:03:37,262 --> 00:03:41,288
The Star interviewed eight former
employees, most speaking anonymously,

73
00:03:41,288 --> 00:03:43,528
out of fear of legal retaliation.

74
00:03:43,682 --> 00:03:47,492
And they described five female dolphins
swimming almost continuously in murky

75
00:03:47,492 --> 00:03:52,172
green water for eight months in 2011
to 2012, with skin falling off in

76
00:03:52,202 --> 00:03:54,242
chunks and their color darkening.

77
00:03:54,465 --> 00:03:59,492
Two sea lions repeatedly confined in
dry cages, once for over two months

78
00:03:59,492 --> 00:04:03,188
to protect eyes already damaged by poor
water quality, with footage reportedly

79
00:04:03,188 --> 00:04:07,548
showing them plunging in their heads
into buckets of clean water for relief.

80
00:04:07,818 --> 00:04:11,568
Animals going blind due to poor water
conditions and requiring treatments

81
00:04:11,568 --> 00:04:13,108
with antibiotics and Valium.

82
00:04:13,272 --> 00:04:16,832
And then baby beluga that died after
being attacked by two adult males,

83
00:04:16,842 --> 00:04:20,562
allegedly because there wasn't
enough staff to intervene in time.

84
00:04:20,865 --> 00:04:24,835
So this was all happening before we
had a law go through that you can't

85
00:04:24,835 --> 00:04:27,095
have marine mammals in tanks anymore.

86
00:04:27,095 --> 00:04:29,125
So I think that's something
that was really interesting.

87
00:04:29,325 --> 00:04:32,825
Now, the owner, as I mentioned, John
Holler, and the park's veterinary director

88
00:04:32,825 --> 00:04:36,772
both flatly deny these allegations,
with Holler stating, " We take care

89
00:04:36,772 --> 00:04:40,482
of the animals better than I would take
care of myself." And this has been a

90
00:04:40,492 --> 00:04:45,355
huge contradictory thing that's been
happening throughout captivity. There

91
00:04:45,355 --> 00:04:48,935
are people who are saying that the
things that they see are just awful

92
00:04:48,935 --> 00:04:51,868
in certain aquariums, and other places
saying, " Look, we treat our animals

93
00:04:51,868 --> 00:04:55,438
better than most children are treated
in some parts of the US and some parts

94
00:04:55,438 --> 00:04:56,798
in Canada and some parts of the world."

95
00:04:56,935 --> 00:04:59,545
It goes back and forth, and it's
really difficult to find out,

96
00:04:59,545 --> 00:05:00,962
like, what has been going on.

97
00:05:01,165 --> 00:05:02,965
And this is where Phil Demers
enters as our whistleblower.

98
00:05:05,078 --> 00:05:09,513
So he was Marineland's head trainer and
the walrus' Smooshie's primary handler.

99
00:05:09,673 --> 00:05:14,283
And The Star's 2012 investigation was
partly what pushed him to go public.

100
00:05:14,483 --> 00:05:17,343
His specific allegations
centered on the water quality.

101
00:05:17,563 --> 00:05:22,119
In September 2011, the park's water
disinfection unit broke, forcing chlorine

102
00:05:22,119 --> 00:05:26,039
levels to be raised across pools housing
Smooshi and other marine mammals.

103
00:05:26,039 --> 00:05:29,339
This allegedly caused chemical burns
on Smooshi, which is a walrus, by

104
00:05:29,339 --> 00:05:32,673
the way, inflamed flippers and
fur loss, and skin loss on sea

105
00:05:32,673 --> 00:05:34,623
lions isolated in these dry cages.

106
00:05:34,853 --> 00:05:38,553
Demers says that his call to move
suffering animals to untreated

107
00:05:38,553 --> 00:05:42,369
water went unheeded by park
leadership, and he quit in 2012.

108
00:05:42,612 --> 00:05:47,092
And then October 7th, 2012, one of the
last days of the season, roughly 500

109
00:05:47,092 --> 00:05:49,022
protesters demonstrate outside the park.

110
00:05:49,209 --> 00:05:53,902
About 150 storm the gates chanting,
"Shut it down." And then in 2013,

111
00:05:53,902 --> 00:05:58,992
Marineland sues Demers for $1.5 million,
alleging he trespassed during a live

112
00:05:58,992 --> 00:06:01,339
show and plotted to steal Smooshy.

113
00:06:01,522 --> 00:06:05,185
And this is where he said that Smooshy
actually imprinted on Phil, so he was

114
00:06:05,185 --> 00:06:06,775
depressed that Phil wasn't there anymore.

115
00:06:06,955 --> 00:06:10,435
And this was in what animal advocates
characterized as a SLAPP suit,

116
00:06:10,489 --> 00:06:12,099
meaning, to silence a whistleblower.

117
00:06:12,429 --> 00:06:15,709
Demers countersues for
defamation and abuse of process.

118
00:06:15,912 --> 00:06:19,332
This legal battle runs for nearly
a decade until both sides drop it

119
00:06:19,332 --> 00:06:23,699
in 2022, with Marineland agreeing
to rehouse Smooshy and her calf.

120
00:06:24,009 --> 00:06:29,275
In November 2016, the Ontario SPCA,
the OSPCA, lays its first criminal

121
00:06:29,275 --> 00:06:32,735
charges against Marineland, 11
counts of animal cruelty involving

122
00:06:32,745 --> 00:06:37,045
land animals, black bears, elk,
deer, guinea hens, and a peacock.

123
00:06:37,225 --> 00:06:41,425
The Crown later dropped all charges,
citing insufficient chance of conviction,

124
00:06:41,519 --> 00:06:46,449
and then Marineland responds with a $21
million defamation suit against the OSPCA.

125
00:06:46,632 --> 00:06:49,952
So obviously, you know, this has
been a contentious battle for quite

126
00:06:50,002 --> 00:06:53,902
a long time like, not only just from
2016, but from on, like, moving

127
00:06:53,902 --> 00:06:55,342
even before that into the '80s.

128
00:06:55,552 --> 00:06:58,289
And then in 2018, the founder,
John Holler, passed away.

129
00:06:58,512 --> 00:07:01,012
His widow, Mary Holler,
took over the ownership.

130
00:07:01,022 --> 00:07:06,709
In 2019, Canada passes Bill S-203, which
is called the Free Willy Bill, banning

131
00:07:06,709 --> 00:07:10,269
the breeding, capture, and trade of
whales and dolphins for entertainment.

132
00:07:10,269 --> 00:07:14,212
Marineland is grandfathered in since
its animals were already in captivity,

133
00:07:14,282 --> 00:07:16,312
so it's allowed to keep operating.

134
00:07:16,525 --> 00:07:19,875
In 2020, Ontario's Animal Welfare
Services launched a formal

135
00:07:19,875 --> 00:07:21,055
investigation into Marineland.

136
00:07:21,972 --> 00:07:26,529
And then the Animal Welfare Services in
2021, declares Marineland's marine mammals

137
00:07:26,529 --> 00:07:31,199
in considerable distress due to poor
water quality and order system upgrades.

138
00:07:31,415 --> 00:07:35,655
That same year, five beluga whales are
sold to Mystic Aquarium in Connecticut.

139
00:07:35,772 --> 00:07:38,012
Three later died within two years.

140
00:07:38,159 --> 00:07:41,419
Marineland is also charged in twenty
twenty-one for continuing to use

141
00:07:41,419 --> 00:07:43,552
whales and dolphins for entertainment.

142
00:07:43,742 --> 00:07:47,192
In March twenty twenty-three, Kiska,
Marineland's last captive orca,

143
00:07:47,192 --> 00:07:50,892
dies, becoming a rallying symbol
for the anti-captivity movement.

144
00:07:51,055 --> 00:07:53,825
In early twenty twenty-three,
Marineland is put up for sale.

145
00:07:54,085 --> 00:07:59,215
In twenty twenty-three to twenty
twenty-four, renewed OSPCA, charges over

146
00:07:59,225 --> 00:08:03,005
mistreatment of their three black bears
result in a guilty verdict in March twenty

147
00:08:03,005 --> 00:08:06,715
twenty-four, with fines under provincial
law by August twenty twenty-four.

148
00:08:06,935 --> 00:08:09,395
Now, in that summer of twenty
twenty-four, Marineland closes to

149
00:08:09,395 --> 00:08:11,005
the public due to financial distress.

150
00:08:11,209 --> 00:08:14,749
The park had only opened for two months
that year, with much of it closed

151
00:08:14,789 --> 00:08:16,759
and admissions sold at reduced rates.

152
00:08:16,939 --> 00:08:20,989
In September sixth, twenty twenty-four,
Mary Haller dies, and is complicating

153
00:08:20,999 --> 00:08:22,952
the succession and future of the park.

154
00:08:23,125 --> 00:08:26,005
In October twenty twenty-five,
Marineland applies to export

155
00:08:26,005 --> 00:08:30,512
its thirty remaining belugas to
Chimelong Ocean Kingdom in China.

156
00:08:30,522 --> 00:08:33,429
Fisheries Minister Joanne Thompson
denies the permit, citing the twenty

157
00:08:33,429 --> 00:08:37,149
nineteen law and stating, " All
whales belong in the ocean, not in

158
00:08:37,149 --> 00:08:38,829
tanks for entertainment purposes."

159
00:08:38,989 --> 00:08:42,519
Animal Justice praises the decision,
noting Chimelong has an active

160
00:08:42,529 --> 00:08:47,019
breeding program and forces whales
to perform, both illegal in Canada.

161
00:08:47,275 --> 00:08:50,965
On October 3rd, 2025, Marineland
says it's running out of money

162
00:08:50,975 --> 00:08:54,482
and will have to kill 30 belugas
without federal financial support.

163
00:08:54,669 --> 00:08:57,639
A source tells the CBC that
Marineland plans to hand the whales

164
00:08:57,639 --> 00:08:59,019
to the government for euthanasia.

165
00:08:59,245 --> 00:09:02,695
And October, three days later, Thompson
responds that Marineland's failure

166
00:09:02,695 --> 00:09:06,555
to plan for a viable alternative does
not place the onus on the Canadian

167
00:09:06,555 --> 00:09:08,185
government to cover your expenses.

168
00:09:08,185 --> 00:09:10,822
So again, they're trying to get away
with saying, " Hey, look, we just

169
00:09:10,822 --> 00:09:12,162
financially can't take care of it.

170
00:09:12,279 --> 00:09:14,399
We're just gonna euthanize them, or
we're gonna hand them over to you

171
00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:16,915
guys to euthanize 'cause we don't
have anything to do with them." I

172
00:09:16,915 --> 00:09:20,365
should also mention that the land that
Marineland sits on let's just say it's

173
00:09:20,365 --> 00:09:24,695
very appealing for developers, and
developers are ready to spend a big

174
00:09:24,705 --> 00:09:29,145
chunk of change to build golf courses and
residences and all this kind of thing.

175
00:09:29,329 --> 00:09:30,379
We're in a housing crisis.

176
00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:33,049
This is gonna go for a lot
of money when it's sold.

177
00:09:33,259 --> 00:09:37,309
So late in 2025, Marineland reportedly
renews its euthanasia threat framing it

178
00:09:37,309 --> 00:09:40,379
as export or death if no deal is reached.

179
00:09:40,389 --> 00:09:43,569
Activists accuse the company of
refusing to engage with proposals for

180
00:09:43,569 --> 00:09:45,519
a whale sanctuary off Nova Scotia.

181
00:09:45,785 --> 00:09:49,889
In January 2026, Canada conditionally
approves export to the US.

182
00:09:50,059 --> 00:09:52,849
Marineland is in talks with four
institutions: the Shedd Aquarium

183
00:09:52,849 --> 00:09:55,969
in Chicago, Georgia Aquarium
in Atlanta, and Mystic Aquarium

184
00:09:55,999 --> 00:09:57,419
in Connecticut and SeaWorld.

185
00:09:57,619 --> 00:10:02,409
In February 27th, 2026, CBC reports two
sea lions relocated from Marineland to

186
00:10:02,409 --> 00:10:03,999
Vancouver, where there's an aquarium.

187
00:10:04,239 --> 00:10:08,679
And in June 2026, DFO endorses a final
rescue plan, splitting the belugas

188
00:10:08,699 --> 00:10:13,162
between Oceanographic Valencia in Spain
and four US locations, depending on

189
00:10:13,172 --> 00:10:15,242
final export permits and health checks.

190
00:10:15,262 --> 00:10:19,329
Now, with that said, with all that
said, the move started this week.

191
00:10:19,369 --> 00:10:21,699
July 20th, we saw the move that began.

192
00:10:21,919 --> 00:10:25,039
Marineland shipped the first
six belugas out on Monday.

193
00:10:25,219 --> 00:10:29,252
Four of them, named Siena,
Acadia, Osiris, and Liouette went

194
00:10:29,252 --> 00:10:30,782
to Shedd Aquarium in Chicago.

195
00:10:30,782 --> 00:10:35,262
And two, Bertie Botts and Frankie,
went to SeaWorld in San Antonio.

196
00:10:35,409 --> 00:10:39,085
And then it was said by Canada's
fisheries minister, " The first wave

197
00:10:39,105 --> 00:10:43,142
of the rescue mission at Marineland is
underway." And transport trucks were seen

198
00:10:43,322 --> 00:10:46,869
moving from Niagara Falls to the Toronto
Pearson Airport that evening, with all

199
00:10:46,869 --> 00:10:48,742
six whales leaving on a single plane.

200
00:10:48,982 --> 00:10:50,797
So look They're out.

201
00:10:51,277 --> 00:10:55,587
They are, quote-unquote, "rescued."
If they had stayed in those tanks,

202
00:10:55,917 --> 00:10:57,537
they would have died eventually.

203
00:10:57,727 --> 00:11:00,167
It's just the tanks were
not in great condition.

204
00:11:00,381 --> 00:11:03,781
There was a lot of, like, overhead
video of what they looked like.

205
00:11:03,947 --> 00:11:04,877
They were green.

206
00:11:05,057 --> 00:11:06,371
They were not in good shape.

207
00:11:06,401 --> 00:11:07,161
I'm not a vet.

208
00:11:07,181 --> 00:11:10,121
I don't know what the last vet
health assessment was, but let's be

209
00:11:10,121 --> 00:11:11,471
honest, they were not gonna do well.

210
00:11:11,471 --> 00:11:13,661
They were not gonna last a long
time ' cause the MarineLand just

211
00:11:13,661 --> 00:11:16,821
didn't have the money or the
people to care for these animals.

212
00:11:17,011 --> 00:11:21,621
Now, my opinion on this, scientifically
and ethically, if you own a marine

213
00:11:21,621 --> 00:11:24,641
theme park with whales or any kind
of animals, doesn't matter if they're

214
00:11:24,641 --> 00:11:29,147
marine animals or they're land animals,
insects, reptiles, it doesn't matter.

215
00:11:29,504 --> 00:11:34,831
You should have the ethical obligation
and the legal obligation to take care of

216
00:11:34,831 --> 00:11:36,181
those animals to the best of your ability.

217
00:11:36,181 --> 00:11:37,041
I don't care if you're out of money.

218
00:11:37,061 --> 00:11:37,511
Take a loan.

219
00:11:38,151 --> 00:11:39,331
I don't care if you lose money on this.

220
00:11:39,341 --> 00:11:42,251
You have these animals that
are in need of your care.

221
00:11:42,387 --> 00:11:46,144
Until you can find other places,
legally other places and approved

222
00:11:46,144 --> 00:11:50,787
other places, you are on the hook to
make sure that they have the best care

223
00:11:50,787 --> 00:11:53,281
in the world, and that is just it.

224
00:11:53,291 --> 00:11:55,831
So the fact that they just said, "Hey,
look, if the government doesn't take

225
00:11:55,831 --> 00:11:58,511
them off our hands or send someone
to take care of them, we are going

226
00:11:58,511 --> 00:12:01,131
to euthanize them, we're gonna kill
them, ' cause we're just done with

227
00:12:01,131 --> 00:12:04,781
them." And now, as I said before, the
money was there to buy the property.

228
00:12:04,791 --> 00:12:08,734
Once these animals are gone, this
sale is gonna go through as fast

229
00:12:08,734 --> 00:12:10,367
as Superman running or The Flash.

230
00:12:10,387 --> 00:12:11,197
Like, let's be honest.

231
00:12:11,217 --> 00:12:15,187
It's gonna go fast ' cause it's very
expensive land, and it's very wanted land.

232
00:12:15,237 --> 00:12:18,767
People want to buy it for housing
and golf courses and everything.

233
00:12:18,767 --> 00:12:22,267
It's a very nice part of Ontario,
so it's gonna be in there.

234
00:12:22,317 --> 00:12:25,267
Now, there's a lot of things that
went in, and I'm gonna do a more of a

235
00:12:25,277 --> 00:12:29,224
mini doc on my YouTube channel, but
I wanted to talk a little bit about

236
00:12:29,224 --> 00:12:30,484
the controversies that happened.

237
00:12:30,484 --> 00:12:33,734
So a lot of people are expressing their
opinions, and I should say that there

238
00:12:33,744 --> 00:12:39,934
is a huge debate between anti-captivity
people and for captivity people.

239
00:12:40,241 --> 00:12:44,451
And so they go at it a lot from a
personal standpoint, from an online

240
00:12:44,451 --> 00:12:47,584
standpoint, like a lot of them don't
like each other, a lot of them debate.

241
00:12:47,731 --> 00:12:50,021
Some debate like are scientists
and they just think it is.

242
00:12:50,021 --> 00:12:53,731
They have their opinions, and I'm gonna
tell you, the opinions are out these days.

243
00:12:53,954 --> 00:12:58,174
And some of the opinions are saying
that, "Hey, look, this is what happens

244
00:12:58,184 --> 00:13:02,524
when you have a legislation that says
you can't keep these animals anymore.

245
00:13:02,637 --> 00:13:05,147
You can't show them off for entertainment,
you can't use them for entertainment, so

246
00:13:05,147 --> 00:13:06,844
there's no shows, there's no breeding.

247
00:13:07,067 --> 00:13:11,321
So nobody wants to come to the
park and see these animals because

248
00:13:11,321 --> 00:13:12,781
they're not putting on a show.

249
00:13:12,911 --> 00:13:15,811
And so because of that, you're putting
them in financial distress, and

250
00:13:15,811 --> 00:13:18,261
eventually they're gonna shut down,
eventually they have to go somewhere."

251
00:13:18,671 --> 00:13:19,771
That's an interesting take.

252
00:13:19,971 --> 00:13:23,804
I get it from that standpoint, but
the whole point of this was not to put

253
00:13:23,804 --> 00:13:27,234
them through the entertainment, the
shows, because it wasn't good for them.

254
00:13:27,441 --> 00:13:29,891
From a scientific standpoint, a
lot of people think, like this

255
00:13:29,901 --> 00:13:31,221
is not the way they should be.

256
00:13:31,221 --> 00:13:32,441
They should just be left alone.

257
00:13:32,591 --> 00:13:37,194
And to be honest, to go see
an orca or a is phenomenal.

258
00:13:37,194 --> 00:13:38,104
A dolphin is phenomenal.

259
00:13:38,114 --> 00:13:39,484
They still need stimulation.

260
00:13:39,484 --> 00:13:42,804
There's other ways to do it, but a
show was not allowed under the law.

261
00:13:42,804 --> 00:13:44,584
You're not allowed to breed them,
you're not allowed to get new ones,

262
00:13:44,584 --> 00:13:46,234
you're not allowed to trade them,
you're not allowed to sell them,

263
00:13:46,234 --> 00:13:47,374
you're not allowed to do anything.

264
00:13:47,497 --> 00:13:52,567
And with the initial move or wanting
to move them to China, to the Ching

265
00:13:52,567 --> 00:13:55,974
Lung Aquarium, that wasn't a good move
because, with a lot of the captivity that

266
00:13:55,994 --> 00:13:58,911
happens in China and Russia, we don't
know what goes on behind the scenes.

267
00:13:58,911 --> 00:13:59,807
We don't have control.

268
00:13:59,957 --> 00:14:02,477
At least going to the US, you
know they are treated better.

269
00:14:02,651 --> 00:14:05,151
And I think Mystic Aquarium was taken out.

270
00:14:05,151 --> 00:14:08,231
I've mentioned earlier this, they might
have been one of the original landing

271
00:14:08,231 --> 00:14:10,691
spots for some of these belugas, 'cause
there was like 30 some odd belugas.

272
00:14:10,911 --> 00:14:12,661
Mystic was actually
taken out of the picture.

273
00:14:12,814 --> 00:14:15,114
They're under their own
controversy right now.

274
00:14:15,321 --> 00:14:18,411
Shedd Aquarium, Georgia Aquarium,
SeaWorld San Antonio, they have

275
00:14:18,411 --> 00:14:20,281
experience with keeping animals.

276
00:14:20,441 --> 00:14:23,311
I don't know their full history
and controversies that go along

277
00:14:23,341 --> 00:14:24,451
other than just captivity.

278
00:14:24,584 --> 00:14:28,047
But I think we're in a situation right
now here in Canada where we don't

279
00:14:28,047 --> 00:14:31,701
have the same population as we do in
the US, and so you're not gonna get

280
00:14:31,701 --> 00:14:33,471
the same amount of people rolling
through, you're not gonna get the

281
00:14:33,471 --> 00:14:34,661
same amount of money rolling through.

282
00:14:34,791 --> 00:14:37,511
It's very difficult to keep a marine park
going, especially when you can't use for

283
00:14:37,511 --> 00:14:38,951
entertainment, completely understand that.

284
00:14:39,147 --> 00:14:42,617
But the whole purpose of this was not to
have these animals in these tanks anymore.

285
00:14:42,841 --> 00:14:47,101
At least if you can't put them back in
the ocean, for whatever reason, we'll

286
00:14:47,101 --> 00:14:50,574
talk about that in a second, then
putting them in an aquarium where they're

287
00:14:50,584 --> 00:14:54,291
actually being able to take care of is
better than their situation there.

288
00:14:54,311 --> 00:14:58,441
I think when we look at all of
this, as dire and as much as I don't

289
00:14:58,441 --> 00:15:01,814
agree with captivity like whales
in captivity and marine mammals in

290
00:15:01,814 --> 00:15:05,051
captivity, you have to do what's best
for the animal at that point in time.

291
00:15:05,281 --> 00:15:07,891
Although it's stressful to move an
animal, especially if that animal's sick,

292
00:15:07,891 --> 00:15:09,391
we don't know what their condition is.

293
00:15:09,567 --> 00:15:12,357
We know it's not perfect
Moving them could kill them.

294
00:15:12,707 --> 00:15:13,377
We don't know.

295
00:15:13,817 --> 00:15:17,597
Putting them in the ocean, just in the
ocean just without any kinda cages or any

296
00:15:17,597 --> 00:15:19,104
kinda taking, that could kill them, too.

297
00:15:19,144 --> 00:15:20,834
A lot of them are born in captivity.

298
00:15:21,054 --> 00:15:22,314
They have never fed on their own.

299
00:15:22,314 --> 00:15:23,474
They've never hunted on their own.

300
00:15:23,701 --> 00:15:27,841
They will depend on people to feed
them even after they're in the wild.

301
00:15:28,041 --> 00:15:33,451
And so there needs to be more of that
type of care when we go into the wild.

302
00:15:33,637 --> 00:15:36,604
So for instance, when Keiko, Free
Willy, when it was released in

303
00:15:36,604 --> 00:15:40,844
Iceland, when it was put into a whale
seaside sanctuary, it had full care.

304
00:15:40,874 --> 00:15:42,124
So people were still feeding it.

305
00:15:42,124 --> 00:15:43,344
It had veterinary care.

306
00:15:43,344 --> 00:15:45,674
They were doing assessments
and everything like that.

307
00:15:45,814 --> 00:15:49,154
And until it passed away when they finally
released it and it decided to go out

308
00:15:49,154 --> 00:15:50,704
on its own and eventually passed away.

309
00:15:50,904 --> 00:15:53,104
It was almost 30 years old, and it died.

310
00:15:53,264 --> 00:15:56,364
But regardless, it had
full care for a long time.

311
00:15:56,364 --> 00:15:59,664
And so a lot of these animals may
or probably will require full care

312
00:15:59,684 --> 00:16:02,904
until and if they ever decide to
hunt on their own and they ever

313
00:16:02,904 --> 00:16:03,744
figure out hunting on their own.

314
00:16:03,764 --> 00:16:04,324
They may do it.

315
00:16:04,354 --> 00:16:04,864
We don't know.

316
00:16:04,894 --> 00:16:07,714
We have no idea if they're gonna do it
or not, because all of them have been

317
00:16:07,754 --> 00:16:11,924
preconditioned and learnt at a young
age that they can get food from humans,

318
00:16:12,031 --> 00:16:13,021
and that's all they get food from.

319
00:16:13,021 --> 00:16:15,221
They can't hunt on their own 'cause
they've never tried hunting on their own.

320
00:16:15,491 --> 00:16:16,787
So there's a lot to go on there.

321
00:16:16,787 --> 00:16:18,847
And some people will ask, "Well,
why didn't it go to the Whale

322
00:16:18,847 --> 00:16:21,837
Sanctuary Project?" That it
had a location in Nova Scotia.

323
00:16:22,047 --> 00:16:24,217
They do have most of their permits.

324
00:16:24,451 --> 00:16:27,161
The one that I haven't seen is a
permit from the federal government.

325
00:16:27,171 --> 00:16:28,511
They do have the provincial permit.

326
00:16:28,704 --> 00:16:33,201
I haven't seen federal permits, although
the executive director, Lori Marino,

327
00:16:33,211 --> 00:16:36,277
from the Whales Sanctuary Project,
did say on a Facebook post on the

328
00:16:36,277 --> 00:16:37,997
comments they had all of their permits.

329
00:16:38,007 --> 00:16:40,697
So with them saying they have all
their permits, I don't see anything

330
00:16:40,697 --> 00:16:43,444
on the government website that they
said that they issued those permits,

331
00:16:43,537 --> 00:16:44,587
but it doesn't mean they haven't.

332
00:16:44,841 --> 00:16:47,381
Lori's saying that they have, and so
they would've had all their permits.

333
00:16:47,474 --> 00:16:50,574
What they didn't have is they they didn't
raise the funds in time or had the funds

334
00:16:50,574 --> 00:16:54,684
to put in the infrastructure and construct
the facility for these belugas if the

335
00:16:54,684 --> 00:16:56,854
belugas were deemed right for this area.

336
00:16:57,051 --> 00:17:00,721
There's no way they probably would've
been able to fit 30 some odd belugas.

337
00:17:00,721 --> 00:17:01,201
I think it was 34 at the time.

338
00:17:01,361 --> 00:17:03,997
There was no way they would be able
to fit that in that small area.

339
00:17:04,204 --> 00:17:05,204
They were still getting their permits.

340
00:17:05,204 --> 00:17:07,234
They didn't get it until October 2025.

341
00:17:07,511 --> 00:17:09,201
And then, of course, they
haven't constructed anything.

342
00:17:09,201 --> 00:17:12,891
They haven't put the infrastructure in as
far as I know at this time of recording.

343
00:17:12,891 --> 00:17:14,811
So there's a lot that
was still going on there.

344
00:17:14,811 --> 00:17:16,161
They still need to raise funds.

345
00:17:16,331 --> 00:17:18,961
I still think they're planning
on doing, on raising funds.

346
00:17:18,991 --> 00:17:21,491
They may get those funds, and when
they do, if they get all their

347
00:17:21,491 --> 00:17:23,874
permits and they say they have
all their permits, they can start

348
00:17:23,874 --> 00:17:25,354
construction, and we'll see what happens.

349
00:17:25,354 --> 00:17:28,857
But it's gonna require ongoing
funding, and we don't know where that

350
00:17:28,857 --> 00:17:30,147
ongoing funding is gonna come from.

351
00:17:30,147 --> 00:17:30,867
Private donors?

352
00:17:31,017 --> 00:17:32,897
Is it gonna come from
the Canadian government?

353
00:17:32,917 --> 00:17:34,817
Is it gonna come from taxpayer money?

354
00:17:34,967 --> 00:17:35,697
We don't know.

355
00:17:35,697 --> 00:17:37,087
I don't know if people wanna do that.

356
00:17:37,117 --> 00:17:41,127
Is it gonna come from people, like, who
owned MarineLand before or who owned

357
00:17:41,127 --> 00:17:45,217
marine theme parks as a penance to what
they have done or what they haven't done?

358
00:17:45,387 --> 00:17:45,827
I have no idea.

359
00:17:46,245 --> 00:17:48,895
I feel like that's maybe a good
idea in the future, but who knows?

360
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:52,049
I feel like some of the money that's made
from the land that was sold in Marineland

361
00:17:52,049 --> 00:17:55,849
should go to the care of those beluga
whales and any of the sea lions as

362
00:17:55,849 --> 00:17:58,549
well that were there, because I think
that's really important to make sure

363
00:17:58,549 --> 00:18:01,349
that they're cared for for the rest of
their lives, like for the rest of these

364
00:18:01,349 --> 00:18:03,279
animals' lives, wherever they end up.

365
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,109
But that's the situation right now.

366
00:18:05,179 --> 00:18:06,149
That's what we're going with.

367
00:18:06,345 --> 00:18:07,885
I'll keep you updated in another show.

368
00:18:07,885 --> 00:18:11,405
I'm working on a mini doc right now to
talk about the captivity, anti-captivity,

369
00:18:11,512 --> 00:18:13,052
and all of the stuff that's going on.

370
00:18:13,172 --> 00:18:14,692
And we'll have visuals
and everything like that.

371
00:18:14,842 --> 00:18:17,432
So let's just see where
that goes from there.

372
00:18:17,622 --> 00:18:19,865
Hopefully it'll be out in the
next couple of months as things

373
00:18:19,865 --> 00:18:21,395
develop and we get interviews done.

374
00:18:21,582 --> 00:18:23,112
Until next time, I'd love
to hear what you think.

375
00:18:23,122 --> 00:18:24,302
Like, what are your thoughts on this?

376
00:18:24,439 --> 00:18:26,979
No judgment whether you're
anti-captivity or for captivity.

377
00:18:26,979 --> 00:18:27,609
No judgment here.

378
00:18:27,742 --> 00:18:31,119
I would just love your thoughts on this
whole process and what's happening in

379
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:35,439
Marineland Canada and how these belugas
are being divided up into US aquariums.

380
00:18:35,449 --> 00:18:37,019
So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

381
00:18:37,152 --> 00:18:38,729
My socials are in the show notes.

382
00:18:38,902 --> 00:18:41,422
And of course, if you want to
support the show, you can go

383
00:18:41,422 --> 00:18:44,402
to speakupforblue.com/patreon.

384
00:18:44,612 --> 00:18:45,912
Link is also in the show notes.

385
00:18:46,222 --> 00:18:48,662
And I wanna thank you so much for
joining me on today's episode of the

386
00:18:48,662 --> 00:18:49,792
How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

387
00:18:49,982 --> 00:18:50,532
Have a great day.

388
00:18:50,562 --> 00:18:52,542
We'll talk to you next time,
and happy conservation.