Advocacy for Scientists: How to Speak Up for the Ocean

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This episode is for any of you who want to
know how to become more of an advocate for

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science, for conservation, for the ocean.

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It doesn't matter if you're a
scientist or not a scientist.

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This episode is for you.

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And today I'm gonna be talking about
an article from Melissa Varga from

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the Union of Concerned Scientists.

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She wrote an article showing
scientists how to become advocates.

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You can be anybody who to do
this, but especially scientists.

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We're gonna talk about why it's difficult
for scientists to transverse over into

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advocacy and some of the hesitations that
we might have, but also how a lot of us

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become advocates and we don't even realize
it, but it's usually later on in life.

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We're gonna talk about all
this on this episode of the How

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to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and
this is the podcast where you find

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out what's happening with the ocean,
how you can speak up for the ocean,

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and what you can do to live for
a better ocean by taking action.

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Now this podcast is really an example
of how a scientist can become an

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advocate because as any of you who
have listened to this podcast, like

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whether it's this episode or a number
of episodes or all 1800 episodes, which

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by the way, I hope that's not the case,
but if it's this, that's pretty cool.

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It's essentially a product of me
wanting to stand up and speak up for

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the ocean for a number of different
reasons through my personal life and

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my professional life that I felt that I
needed to do as part of being a scientist.

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'Cause let's be honest, for all
the scientists who are listening

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out there, and I know there are
quite a number of you, I know some

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of you have been on this podcast.

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Some of you have been guests, some of
you have been my friends for a long time.

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Others have just gotten to
know me through this podcast.

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We know that as scientists, we just
want to do science in a lot of ways.

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Like when I first started my career, I
was like, I want to be out on the ocean.

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I want to use cool technology.

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I want to discover more
things about the ocean.

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I want to have an impact on the ocean.

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At the beginning though, it wasn't
necessarily about conservation.

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It wasn't necessarily about having a
legacy where I'm convincing people or

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trying to tell people about the ocean so
that they can lack for a better ocean.

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It was more of, I just wanna
discover new things about the ocean.

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I wanna find new species.

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I want to learn new things about
sharks, marine mammals, you know,

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penguins, all these different types of
cool species that I grew up watching.

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I want to know more about them.

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I want to like travel the world.

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I want to do all that kind of stuff,
but I want to stick to the science.

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It's all I wanted to do.

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I just wanted to stick to the science.

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No politics, no advocacy, no activism.

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I didn't wanna be seen as one of,
quote unquote those people or those

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organizations like Greenpeace,
like Sea Shepherd, like Ocean

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Conservancy, like Oceana, a lot
of different places like WWF.

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But what I soon realized as I started
to mature within my career in my field,

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those organizations are based in science.

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A lot of them are based in
science and some of them have

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even become more based in science.

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Greenpeace has taken a major shift,
not away from activism, but the

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way they do activism and advocacy
is more with science, you know.

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Some can argue that Sea Shepherd
have done the same thing.

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I haven't followed them as closely
as I have Greenpeace because I know

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some people who work there, but it
is a lot different now, and I find

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it's an evolution as a scientist.

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If you've noticed, if any of you have been
to conferences or any of you have spoken

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to people within your work space, whether
it's older individuals that have been

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working in this conservation field or in
the science field for like 30 years plus,

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20 years plus maybe even 10 years plus.

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You see a lot more people getting tired
of being rejected, getting tired of

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putting out the science and not being
listened to or putting out the science

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and people ignoring that science and doing
the opposite of what's been happening.

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We see it in every field,
especially these days.

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The medical field.

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But now, we've seen it happen in
conservation time and time again.

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Every once in a while we'll get a win
and something has changed, be based on

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the science and it works out and it's
wonderful, but it doesn't happen as often.

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And a lot of the times when we're
younger, as we're coming through, and

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this is not to blame anybody 'cause
we've all been through it and I'll

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talk about some of the reasons why
we don't become advocates sooner.

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We're just getting like our feet wet,
so to speak within this career field.

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We're trying to get a full-time job, get
paid normally, live a proper life, but

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we're just trying to do as much as we
can within the field of marine science

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and marine biology so that we can
enjoy what we've always wanted to do.

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Live the dream, right?

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Now when I hear people say,
Hey, ask people how you doing?

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They're like, I'm living the dream.

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And it's kind of sarcastic.

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So it's not really like, oh, I'm
living the dream, but I'm not really,

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it's kind of a bit of a nightmare.

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And when things happen, where you
see drastic reductions in funding,

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drastic reductions in the rhetoric
that comes out against marine science,

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marine conservation, and so forth,
it becomes really heavy on everybody

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because no matter who you are, you
could be scientists who do really

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non-political, very unbiased work,
which is what science is, and all

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of a sudden that becomes biased.

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People designate that that's a
bias, that's a political leaning.

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And if you think this way, you are,
you know, leaning one way or another.

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And because one party is in government and
not the other, we're just gonna cut that

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entirely because we don't agree with that.

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And that, again, that's happening
across all fields, especially

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in the US happening in Canada.

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About 15 years ago, 10, 15 years ago.

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Not as drastic as what's happening
in the US but it's happening.

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This is not like a political thing at all.

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This is more of how scientists
need to become more advocates.

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Now I did just read an article, really
great article by Melissa Vargas.

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I'll link to it in the show notes.

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She works for the Union
of Concerned Science.

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She's a science network senior
manager at the Union of Concerned

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Science, a great organization.

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She wrote an article
called New to Advocacy?

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3 Tips for Early Career Scientists,
and it's called The equation.

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The publication was September 3rd.

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So this is for this month.

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It's part of like an early
career scientist month.

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And it's really recognizing like
there's a lot of added stressors

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that are facing new scientists.

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You know, we're looking at federal
funding reductions in the US.

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Immigration and visa hurdles are
happening, like a lot of scientists

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have come from outside the US, outside
of Canada where I live, and have

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really contributed an immense amount
of knowledge to science in general as

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well as marine science in this case
because it's a marine science podcast.

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But there's also a lot of problems with
that because now with this rhetoric

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going on, immigration and visa hurdles,
there's threats to deportation.

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And of course, widespread attacks on
science, it forces a lot of researchers

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to leave the US, forces teams to be
broken up, forces labs to be broken

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up and that is devastating to science.

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That is devastating to the research
that is happening within these

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labs, within these science teams,
whether it be collaborators or not.

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A lot of times science is done
based on collaboration, even though

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there's problems within that.

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But there's a lot of things that
are really harming the work aspect

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and the funding aspect of doing
science in today's world and

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that is a lot politically driven.

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Again, I don't want this to be
politically, but it is politically driven.

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There's this mindset that the
less science we know, the better,

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and so we're going into a very different
direction, which is stressful in a

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lot of other ways than just, you know,
having a career or becoming an advocate.

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But what it does drive people to do,
especially early career scientists,

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is to kind of like, bring their head
up from working so hard and trying

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to just find regular paying jobs.

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Like in marine science, so a full-time
salaried type jobs, which, let's be

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honest, there's not a lot out there.

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And it becomes difficult.

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They kind of bring our
heads up and be like.

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Well, hold on a second here.

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Like, I didn't even have
a chance to work for NOAA.

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I didn't have a chance to work for the
EPA, you know, all the funding's cut.

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I was brought on.

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I thought I was, you know, starting
with these great organizations

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that have a history of doing really
great marine science and then all

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of a sudden I get cut outta nowhere
just because I was on probation.

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And so that is really difficult.

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And so you become a little bit
more of a, we need to start

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talking about what's going on here.

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You become more of an advocate,
not only for your own job, but also

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for the field in which we work, in
which we love growing up, seeing and

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watching and going to school for.

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It inspired us to go to school, spend,
you know, hundreds of thousands of

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dollars just to be able to be paid
adequately or not even at all, because

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now there's something going on and it
feels like a war against science, whether

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it's marine medical or what have you.

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It's become a real problem.

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It's forcing us to move
in a different direction.

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It's forcing a lot of scientists,
whether we wanna become advocates or not.

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It's forcing us into a new direction.

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So Melissa Varga some tips, and I
really think these are great tips.

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I might have some to add on,
but I wanted to go through this.

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I want to highlight what these tips are
because I think this is really important.

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The one thing is, is you're not alone.

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We can build a community of scientists
who could become advocates, right?

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One of Melissa's points
is advocacy is a marathon.

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It's not a sprint.

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You have to find people
who have shared values.

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There might be some point of advocacy,
which you don't agree that, you know,

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you need to follow, and there might
be other points that you could follow.

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It's a wide field when
you get into advocacy.

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There's certain policies that you may want
more than others, or you may find that you

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can add the most quote unquote expertise
or want to add the most effort on.

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So find that community.

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Find the people who want to know more
about a specific policy that you want to

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advocate for, or like, if it's something
in general, find that community of

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like-minded individuals of shared values.

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And work with them to
make some changes, right?

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There's a lot of just ocean
centered groups, as she suggests.

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There's marine conservation organizations,
like local chapters or global groups

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like Surf Rider Foundation and Oceana.

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There's also Ocean Conservancy.

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There's WWF, there's Union
for Concerned Scientists.

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There's a network such as the 500 Women
Scientists focusing on marine policy.

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That would be a great one if you're
a woman or you are an ally to

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women rights and women in science.

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University and local campus environmental
clubs, those are really great because

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a lot of times people in academia or
university students tend to have a lot

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of passion when it comes to this 'cause
they will be advocating for their own

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marine fields and their own marine jobs.

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And eventually, like, you know,
that's what's really gonna happen.

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But emphasize like how communities offer
the emotional support that you need, the

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training, the shared resources and the
accountability, especially when you're

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looking at funding cuts and uncertainty.

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So there are organizations out
there, whether they're societies

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or whatnot, they offer training
on how to become an advocate.

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They may offer training on something
completely different that might offer

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you more of a job when you get outta
university, or if you just got outta

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university, it might be a more impactful.

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Like conservation marketing.

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Behavior change and how to get
people more into conservation.

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There might be like an MBA program
that you can go into or go back

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into grad school and there might be
training on something specific that

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has maybe a little bit more resiliency
in times that we're facing right now.

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So look at those groups,
look at those aspects.

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And there are people out there, there
are organizations out there, there

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are funding and helping people out.

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Balean, which is a friend of the
podcast, Bart Oor and Saunders Brienen.

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They were just on the podcast.

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They are creating an organization, a
foundation that is there to support

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individuals and individual projects who
may not get the same equal attention

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from funding groups or may not qualify
from those funding groups, or there's

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just not enough funding around.

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They're bringing funders and those
projects together because they think

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these projects are important and
they want funders to be able to also

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see that these are important to
help fund these types of projects.

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So that's an important aspect, looking
out for these different groups.

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Now, when you're networking,
when you're looking for these

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groups, go on Facebook groups.

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Be careful of the types
of Facebook groups.

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You can get some bad players in some.

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There's LinkedIn groups that are really
great or just even on LinkedIn and just

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be able to put that option out there.

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Be like, Hey, I'm looking for a group
that is interested in sea turtle

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protection policy, or I'm looking for
a group that wants to get the manatees

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back on the Endangered Species Act.

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You know, I'm looking for that.

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Or water quality in Florida
or something like that.

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There are a lot of different
groups out there that could help

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and you can find them online.

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There's some Reddit groups
that are always great.

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I'm not familiar with Reddit, but I heard
that they offer some really great things.

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There's also a lot of people writing
about this type of stuff and where

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you can meet or where you can
aggregate online as a community.

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So those are always great as well.

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So that's something that's important.

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So look out for those types of groups.

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Those are something that
you're gonna want to do.

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Know that you're more
than just a scientist.

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You're also a constituent.

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00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,423
Melissa really puts that home on this
article and I think it's really important.

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00:12:09,473 --> 00:12:11,423
One of the things that you do
is you have this expertise.

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I've been guesting on other podcasts
like they're environmentally focused

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or just like world changing focused,
where they're looking at people

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who are trying to change the world.

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And I've been trying to spread the
word, not only my podcast, but

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also others, and types of stuff
that's going on in the ocean.

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00:12:25,113 --> 00:12:29,583
It's really interesting how when I speak
to somebody that is not familiar with

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Ocean, they will come tell me and they'll
be like, I didn't know any of this,

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and I feel like it's a simple thing.

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00:12:36,260 --> 00:12:38,180
You know, I was just on
a podcast the other day.

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00:12:38,333 --> 00:12:40,883
Even before we got on the podcast,
I was just talking about the Shark

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00:12:40,883 --> 00:12:42,553
Meat episode I did earlier this week.

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00:12:42,743 --> 00:12:44,743
We talked about how people
are eating shark meat.

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00:12:44,743 --> 00:12:45,583
They don't even know it.

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Not just in Brazil with kids or
people in prisons or at elderly care

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facilities, but also, you know, people
who are buying fish that don't even

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realize that those fish are fraudulent.

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00:12:56,110 --> 00:12:59,560
It's actually shark meat that's
carcinogenic or has arsenic

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00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,140
or mercury levels and then
just don't even realize it.

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00:13:02,140 --> 00:13:05,320
And the host was like, her mind was blown
that they didn't know this kind of stuff.

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Sometimes explaining the stuff that's
going on in a way where you're like,

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yeah, research showed this and I can
give you the articles if you really want.

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00:13:11,740 --> 00:13:13,060
They don't really want
to see the articles.

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00:13:13,060 --> 00:13:15,700
They want to hear the stories,
they want to hear what's going on.

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And maybe some of it is doom and gloom,
but sometimes like I did not know that.

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How can I help?

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00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:22,860
And then you can just do
it on an individual basis.

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So talking to not only policy makers
government agencies, and your government

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representatives, but also talking
to just people in your community.

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One person I really respect and
admire, Dr. Andrew Thaler, who's been

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00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,200
on the podcast a number of times.

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00:13:35,255 --> 00:13:39,065
He was talking about being the chair and
joining the sort of a climate commission

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00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:41,990
for his town and he put in a tide gauge.

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00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:44,090
We did that episode where he
put it into tide gauge just to

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kind of measure the tides in St.

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Michaels in Maryland and
that's like an important thing.

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It's a small local scale, but there's
an education part of it for the town

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00:13:51,730 --> 00:13:53,380
and for the kids that are in that town.

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00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:57,250
But also there's a application to it to
find out like what's gonna get flooded

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00:13:57,250 --> 00:14:00,280
when things flood and how often is it
gonna get flooded, let's get the data

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00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:01,900
behind it because they don't have it.

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And I thought that's really interesting
to just take part in your community and

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00:14:05,290 --> 00:14:07,300
be able to engage with those communities.

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00:14:07,570 --> 00:14:11,170
And also, you know, start a podcast, start
a social media channel, and be able to

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00:14:11,170 --> 00:14:12,910
talk about the things that you know about.

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Not necessarily in a scientific way, but
also in a way where people can understand.

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It really helps everybody out.

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00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:21,223
Recognize and also resist the overwhelm.

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00:14:21,463 --> 00:14:25,148
There is a lot of disinformation
and information overload

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00:14:25,148 --> 00:14:26,888
that can cause fatigue.

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00:14:27,198 --> 00:14:30,708
I do a lot of work in terms of
putting stuff out, like consuming

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00:14:30,708 --> 00:14:33,768
information and it's a lot and
I have to take breaks sometimes.

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00:14:33,928 --> 00:14:35,548
Sometimes my voice needs to take breaks.

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00:14:35,548 --> 00:14:37,378
This summer, I had a lot
of problems with my voice.

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00:14:37,588 --> 00:14:41,458
But there are times where you need to
just kind of sit back and digest some

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00:14:41,458 --> 00:14:45,718
things and just relax and just understand
that there are bad actors out there and

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00:14:45,718 --> 00:14:48,348
they have strategies that are really,
really great all the way from the

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00:14:48,348 --> 00:14:52,068
fossil fuel industry and providing huge
misinformation campaigns to the point

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00:14:52,068 --> 00:14:56,688
where it's like people just don't wanna
listen or they have their own facts and

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00:14:56,688 --> 00:14:58,308
their own sources and stuff like that.

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00:14:58,528 --> 00:15:00,178
and that could be really bad.

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00:15:00,183 --> 00:15:03,022
So limit your exposure
to some of those parties.

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00:15:03,122 --> 00:15:06,122
You're probably not gonna convince
them of anything that you want to

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00:15:06,122 --> 00:15:08,252
convince them of or provide facts for.

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00:15:08,402 --> 00:15:11,942
Recognize that there are emotional
tactics that people try to do.

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00:15:12,152 --> 00:15:16,082
There are times when I post about climate
change and immediately I will get somebody

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00:15:16,082 --> 00:15:17,942
in being like, climate change's not real.

313
00:15:17,942 --> 00:15:18,902
This is all just a hoax.

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00:15:18,902 --> 00:15:20,582
Look at this YouTube
video, blah, blah, blah.

315
00:15:20,949 --> 00:15:23,853
And you know it's, all bias
so don't fall for those things.

316
00:15:23,853 --> 00:15:25,743
And sometimes I do, I have
to admit, sometimes I do.

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00:15:25,743 --> 00:15:28,683
But try and get out of that kind
of way of doing things like that.

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00:15:28,873 --> 00:15:31,289
But also don't make it
stop you from posting.

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00:15:31,576 --> 00:15:35,706
The way I look at things I post for people
who want to know more about the ocean.

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00:15:36,096 --> 00:15:37,716
These are people who are
looking for information.

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00:15:37,716 --> 00:15:38,706
That is my audience.

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00:15:38,856 --> 00:15:42,426
I'm not posting for people who
are hell bent against me getting

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00:15:42,426 --> 00:15:45,816
this information out and trying to
tear me down at any point in time.

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00:15:45,846 --> 00:15:47,106
That is not what I'm about.

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00:15:47,346 --> 00:15:48,516
That is not what I'm doing.

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00:15:48,736 --> 00:15:50,446
Also, the small steps matter.

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00:15:50,883 --> 00:15:51,903
You know, so start now.

328
00:15:51,953 --> 00:15:57,233
Doing local things, talking to your local
city council, talking to local business

329
00:15:57,233 --> 00:15:59,513
people, just having those conversations.

330
00:15:59,663 --> 00:16:00,503
That's really good.

331
00:16:00,503 --> 00:16:04,433
Small actions today matter,
even if it's just with a friend.

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00:16:04,773 --> 00:16:08,463
Providing that information is
so good for a scientist to do.

333
00:16:08,643 --> 00:16:10,503
'cause people actually
care about what you do.

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00:16:10,533 --> 00:16:12,513
They are genuinely curious.

335
00:16:12,573 --> 00:16:16,083
And if you try and stay away from some
of those topics that are triggering

336
00:16:16,083 --> 00:16:19,979
politically, you can get away with
a lot and say a lot of great things,

337
00:16:19,979 --> 00:16:23,309
factual things that people will be like,
it doesn't matter which way they lean.

338
00:16:23,309 --> 00:16:24,299
People are like, oh, I didn't know that.

339
00:16:24,299 --> 00:16:24,989
Oh, that's kind of cool.

340
00:16:24,989 --> 00:16:26,129
Like, your job is so cool.

341
00:16:26,129 --> 00:16:26,909
That's really nice.

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00:16:27,239 --> 00:16:31,069
And even if it's not part of your
job, you can talk about the ocean

343
00:16:31,069 --> 00:16:33,409
the way you know it, and I think
that's really important to do.

344
00:16:33,496 --> 00:16:37,246
So share science not only locally
and with friends and family, but also

345
00:16:37,246 --> 00:16:39,046
through social media that really helps.

346
00:16:39,176 --> 00:16:42,176
Volunteer with beach cleanups
or community workshop.

347
00:16:42,396 --> 00:16:45,246
If there's a committee or there's a
meeting or something, you can always

348
00:16:45,246 --> 00:16:48,336
volunteer, say with that government
agency and say, Hey, you know what?

349
00:16:48,336 --> 00:16:51,096
I'm a local scientist here and I know
a lot about this type of subject.

350
00:16:51,096 --> 00:16:54,036
I'd be happy to answer any kind of
questions people might have or help

351
00:16:54,036 --> 00:16:55,506
out in any kind of way that might help.

352
00:16:55,506 --> 00:16:58,661
You know, But reinforce the
idea that every ocean advocate

353
00:16:58,661 --> 00:17:00,581
started with a single step.

354
00:17:00,671 --> 00:17:02,934
And that is like small things.

355
00:17:03,114 --> 00:17:04,074
You gotta start small.

356
00:17:04,384 --> 00:17:07,818
Before I started this podcast, I was
having like so many conversations.

357
00:17:07,818 --> 00:17:08,958
I was gonna say hundreds and thousands.

358
00:17:08,958 --> 00:17:10,518
I don't know if it's a hundreds
and thousands, but I was having a

359
00:17:10,518 --> 00:17:13,578
lot of conversations about what's
going on in the ocean and I was

360
00:17:13,578 --> 00:17:14,898
surprised that people didn't know.

361
00:17:15,138 --> 00:17:18,958
So I scaled it up and I went to a
podcast and now I am where I am.

362
00:17:19,074 --> 00:17:21,978
And so now I'm talking to
thousands of people every episode,

363
00:17:22,098 --> 00:17:22,968
and that's important to me.

364
00:17:22,968 --> 00:17:26,358
That's nice to know that people are
listening and people want to know more and

365
00:17:26,358 --> 00:17:28,518
more about what's happening in the ocean.

366
00:17:28,848 --> 00:17:34,308
So this is something that we need
to do as scientists all the time.

367
00:17:34,624 --> 00:17:36,904
I'm not saying you have to go out
and protest each and every day,

368
00:17:37,114 --> 00:17:38,494
but there's advocacy to be had.

369
00:17:38,494 --> 00:17:40,894
There's information to be
shared, and it's up to us.

370
00:17:40,894 --> 00:17:43,144
It's the responsibility of the
scientists to share that information.

371
00:17:43,144 --> 00:17:46,294
Now, you also have to be careful
how you share the information,

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00:17:46,294 --> 00:17:47,284
who you share it with.

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00:17:47,524 --> 00:17:49,864
Like I said, you don't want to be going
to people where it's just triggering

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00:17:49,864 --> 00:17:52,304
for them and they're not gonna
listen and they don't want to know.

375
00:17:52,754 --> 00:17:53,414
That's fine.

376
00:17:53,564 --> 00:17:56,504
You know who those people are, you
don't have to engage with them if you

377
00:17:56,504 --> 00:17:59,654
don't want because that's emotionally
draining sometimes, and it can be

378
00:17:59,654 --> 00:18:00,944
dangerous in certain situations.

379
00:18:00,944 --> 00:18:04,544
So what I would suggest is you put out
information where you know the person

380
00:18:04,544 --> 00:18:08,798
is going to take it, and is looking
forward to knowing more about it and wants

381
00:18:08,798 --> 00:18:10,268
to do something better for the ocean.

382
00:18:10,413 --> 00:18:13,953
And so if you can speak to the people
that are doing that, which I believe

383
00:18:13,953 --> 00:18:17,643
are most of the people in and around
the world and in around your community,

384
00:18:17,763 --> 00:18:18,903
then I think that's a great thing.

385
00:18:18,903 --> 00:18:21,859
It doesn't matter, like try and
stay away from saying politics.

386
00:18:22,009 --> 00:18:25,849
You can criticize a government, whether
it's a democratic government or Republican

387
00:18:25,849 --> 00:18:29,089
government, or leaning like liberal
leaning or left or right leaning.

388
00:18:29,371 --> 00:18:30,691
You can criticize a government.

389
00:18:30,721 --> 00:18:33,331
That's fair to do, but
criticize it without emotions.

390
00:18:33,521 --> 00:18:36,161
Don't just say, this person's a
douche and I don't like this person,

391
00:18:36,161 --> 00:18:37,691
so I'm gonna criticize this stuff.

392
00:18:37,751 --> 00:18:42,551
You can say that, Hey, by taking away
this regulation, it puts this animal at

393
00:18:42,551 --> 00:18:46,451
risk, or it puts this coastline at risk
or it puts water quality at risk, or

394
00:18:46,451 --> 00:18:47,651
just conservation in general at risk.

395
00:18:47,741 --> 00:18:48,416
You can say that.

396
00:18:48,776 --> 00:18:51,656
Because you're a scientist and you
say it based on like, this is what

397
00:18:51,656 --> 00:18:54,206
the science is saying and this
government is going against that.

398
00:18:54,206 --> 00:18:57,356
There's nothing wrong
with criticizing a policy.

399
00:18:57,546 --> 00:19:01,176
There's governments that I voted for
where I still criticize their policies

400
00:19:01,206 --> 00:19:02,286
'cause I don't agree with everything.

401
00:19:02,286 --> 00:19:04,896
We're not supposed to agree
with everything that they do.

402
00:19:04,896 --> 00:19:07,026
And sometimes, and a lot of
times governments mess up.

403
00:19:07,356 --> 00:19:10,493
You know, whether it's individuals of
that government and in power or on

404
00:19:10,493 --> 00:19:13,943
the opposition or whatever, people mess
up, politicians mess up all the time.

405
00:19:14,253 --> 00:19:15,723
That's what makes politics so difficult.

406
00:19:15,963 --> 00:19:19,473
But you could vote for something and
still criticize their policies if

407
00:19:19,473 --> 00:19:21,813
you don't like what they're doing, if
the environment is important to you.

408
00:19:22,203 --> 00:19:25,773
All governments are bad for the
environment in one way or another.

409
00:19:25,963 --> 00:19:29,203
You just have to look at which one's
the least harmful to the environment.

410
00:19:29,233 --> 00:19:32,483
But this is what I wanted to cover
today because I feel like a lot of

411
00:19:32,483 --> 00:19:34,043
scientists, we try and stay outta that.

412
00:19:34,043 --> 00:19:35,573
Like, I'm not an advocate,
I'm not an activist.

413
00:19:35,573 --> 00:19:36,443
I'm not gonna stay outta that.

414
00:19:36,563 --> 00:19:37,913
I just want do the science.

415
00:19:38,423 --> 00:19:41,603
Oftentimes we have to not only
advocate for ourselves, but we have

416
00:19:41,603 --> 00:19:42,578
to advocate for the environment.

417
00:19:43,038 --> 00:19:44,508
We are in the environment all the time.

418
00:19:44,508 --> 00:19:46,398
We see the degradation that's happening.

419
00:19:46,668 --> 00:19:49,968
Some scientists, and maybe that's why
the scientists who have been in the

420
00:19:49,968 --> 00:19:53,928
field for 10, 20, 30 years will see
a big problem and then start to say,

421
00:19:53,928 --> 00:19:57,618
Hey, this is really degraded over my
lifetime and I don't want to see that,

422
00:19:57,618 --> 00:19:58,968
so I'm gonna start talking about it.

423
00:19:59,078 --> 00:20:02,528
But if we do that throughout our, like
when we see the small things happen

424
00:20:02,528 --> 00:20:06,338
before it gets too big and too negative,
maybe we can have a difference when we

425
00:20:06,338 --> 00:20:08,538
advocate as we go through our career.

426
00:20:08,728 --> 00:20:10,258
It's important that scientists speak out.

427
00:20:10,258 --> 00:20:12,208
It's important that scientists
speak up, whether it's through a

428
00:20:12,208 --> 00:20:15,148
podcast, TikTok, Instagram, Discord,

429
00:20:15,216 --> 00:20:18,636
Reddit, whatever it is, even just
locally, it's important that we speak

430
00:20:18,636 --> 00:20:20,886
up, speak out, and protect the ocean.

431
00:20:21,156 --> 00:20:23,676
I wanna thank you so much for
joining me on today's episode.

432
00:20:23,676 --> 00:20:25,446
If you have any questions or
comments, please let me know.

433
00:20:25,446 --> 00:20:28,176
Leave in the comments below, if
you're watching this on YouTube, or

434
00:20:28,176 --> 00:20:31,206
you can contact me in a couple of
different ways through Instagram at

435
00:20:31,206 --> 00:20:32,806
how to Protect the Ocean, just DM me.

436
00:20:32,859 --> 00:20:35,799
at Speak Up for Blue on TikTok, and
of course you can go to the website,

437
00:20:35,799 --> 00:20:39,549
speakupforblue.com/contact and you
can just leave me a message there.

438
00:20:39,549 --> 00:20:40,719
It goes right to my email.

439
00:20:40,959 --> 00:20:43,989
I wanna thank you so much for
joining me on today's episode of the

440
00:20:43,989 --> 00:20:45,219
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

441
00:20:45,219 --> 00:20:47,979
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from
the True nor Strong and free.

442
00:20:47,979 --> 00:20:48,549
Have a great day.

443
00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:50,799
We'll talk to you next time
and happy conservation.