Art and Ocean Science: How Creativity Reveals the Deep Sea's Hidden Stories

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What happens when a

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sculptor, a theater director,

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and a science program

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coordinator come together

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to explore the deep ocean?

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In this episode, we're

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surfacing the hidden connections

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between art, memory, and the sea,

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and revealing how creative

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minds are helping scientists

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unlock new ways to protect the ocean.

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That's what we're gonna

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talk about on this episode

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of the "How to

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Protect the Ocean" podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back

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to another exciting episode

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of the "How to

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Protect the Ocean" podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew

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Lewin, and this is the podcast

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where you find out what's

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happening with the ocean,

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how you can speak up for the ocean,

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and what you can do to

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live for a better ocean

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by taking action.

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And today's episode

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is part of our monthly

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Surfacing Secrets series,

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where we highlight the

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powerful intersection

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of art and ocean science,

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and how creativity can

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open new ways of seeing,

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understanding, and

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protecting the blue planet.

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In this conversation,

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we're joined by Parvan Hasani,

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a sculptor and interdisciplinary artist,

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originally from Iran, Dennis D. Gupa,

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a Filipino theater

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director and climate storyteller,

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and Dwight Owens, the

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coordinator behind the

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ONC Art Science Fellowship Program at

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Ocean Networks Canada.

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Together, we explore how

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their work connects memory,

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migration, resilience,

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and deep sea mysteries,

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and how artists and

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scientists are learning to speak

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a common language, all in

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the service of understanding

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and protecting the ocean.

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This is gonna be a great interview,

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and I can't wait for you to hear it.

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So here's the

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interview with Parvan, Hasani,

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and Dwight, enjoy, and

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I'll talk to you after.

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Hey Dwight, hey Parvan, hey Dennis,

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welcome to the How to

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Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about art

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intersecting with ocean science?

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Oh yeah, you're ready.

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All right.

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Very excited.

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Yeah.

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Good, good, good.

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I'm so excited too.

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This is gonna be a lot of

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fun because a lot of times,

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you know, on this podcast,

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we talk about conservation,

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we talk about science,

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and we get into some

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of the technical stuff,

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and we look at campaigns

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and how well they work.

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And we do get into arts, but not enough,

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because I feel like art is

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just a way of expression,

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which we're gonna talk about today,

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in the different ways of

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expressing through art.

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And it's a good way to

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communicate, like science,

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climate change, ocean

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issues, oceans, positivity,

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and optimism through

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this medium to an audience

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that's ready to just kind of

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take it up in various ways.

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So I'm very, very excited to

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be able to talk about that.

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We're gonna be talking

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about Ocean Networks Canada's

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involvement in building this program.

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And we're gonna talk

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about some of the fellows.

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We're gonna talk to some of the fellows,

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Parvin and Dennis, a

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past fellow in this program,

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and how it's allowed

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them to grow as an artist,

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especially intersecting with scientists

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and being able to speak

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to scientists and interact.

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I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.

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So this is gonna be

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very excited for this.

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But before we get into all of that,

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I'll just kind of let us know

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who you are and what you do.

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We'll start with

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Parvin, then we'll go Dennis,

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and then we'll go Dwight.

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Hi, I'm Parvin Hassan.

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I'm Iranian interdisciplinary artist

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and the current art science fellow in

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Ocean Network Canada.

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Perfect. And Dennis?

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Dennis Gupa, I am a theater director

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and assistant professor at the

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Department of Theater and Film

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at the University of

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Winnipeg in Manitoba.

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Perfect. And Dwight.

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Hi, I'm Dwight Owens.

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I'm a long time employee

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of Ocean Networks Canada

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in various roles and

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currently serving as the manager

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of impact and capacity development.

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Awesome. Now, Dwight, in the past,

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like when we've talked in the past,

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you described yourself as not an artist

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and not a scientist,

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but clearly you're a

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connector, you connect.

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So how did your background in languages

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and instructional

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design shape your approach

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to building the ONC

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arts and science program?

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Well, hmm, you know, you

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mentioned I'm a connector

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and I did take the strengths based,

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whatever that test is,

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looking at your strengths

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and connection was one of

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the top strengths for me.

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So there we go.

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That's really what I like to

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do is bring people together

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and, you know, try and

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see how different strengths

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of different people

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can even become greater

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through that synergy.

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And yeah, so I was working

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for Ocean Networks Canada.

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I was working with Kim

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Juniper, our past senior scientist,

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and he invited me to work

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with him to develop this artist

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in residence program,

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which we're now calling

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our Art Science Fellowship.

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So it was an invitation and I've learned

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that it's a good thing to say yes.

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I think it's great.

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And now, you know, having like a

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visionary come to you and be like,

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OK, I want to build

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this fellowship program.

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Did you have any kind of art background?

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And if not, like what was it like to

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build a program out like this?

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You know, my my arts

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background is very informal.

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I took some classes in high school and

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university and I dabble

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around in various things,

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but nothing really formal and.

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But we have guidance because we have

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connection with the faculty of fine arts

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at the University of Victoria.

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So that there are, you know,

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faculty that will help us, the

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the dean of the faculty of fine arts is

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will be quite

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involved and very supportive.

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So we can tap into their network and they

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can really guide us on how to work

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with artists, with students, grad

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students and, you know,

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help them develop in this role.

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It's kind of an interesting thought

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process of, you know, you have this

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very technical

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organizations in Ocean Networks Canada,

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gathering data, learning how to at the

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time, you know, it was you know, you've

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been with them for a long time.

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But as they gathering more and more data,

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putting more instruments in the water,

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being able to build relationships with

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with the communities

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in all the various different ways, you

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know, obviously integrating with

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University of Victoria

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and the different programs.

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Do you was it hard for the organization

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to, you know, build a

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program like an arts program,

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like an arts fellowship, knowing like

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there's such a there's such a like, you

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know, there's there's a lot of engineers,

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a lot of, you know, communication with a

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lot of technical people there.

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Was it difficult for that crossover to

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get into the arts for the

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for Ocean Networks Canada?

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You know, I think I think

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that's a still in process.

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You know, we have leadership, Kate Moran

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and and Daniela Luke, who strongly

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support this program.

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And, you know, when I talk to staff

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members at O and C, they're supportive.

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They like the idea, but it's, you know,

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it's not high on their list.

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Right. So, but, you know, by the same

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token, if I arrange a meeting, if I ask

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for something, they're happy to help.

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Yeah. And, you know, just this summer,

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Parvin wanted to have access to discarded

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tech from the deep ocean.

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And so we contacted a fellow at the

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Marine Technology Center

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and he was very happy to help.

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And yeah, found some cable for part of

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it. It turned out to

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be not the right color.

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But so people are they are responsive.

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They are interested. Yeah. But it's just

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they feel like it's

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outside of their right.

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You know, they're their duty list and

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bringing the arts like

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really into the way we work.

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That's we're not there yet.

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Yeah. You know, it's funny.

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You're growing up as a scientist or like

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being educated as a scientist and always

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having that thought of like, let's just,

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you know, here's the problem.

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Let's use math to solve it. Let's prove

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it and find the evidence and then see

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what it does and interpret

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it like a very technical way.

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But I was recently reminded that science

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is very is very creative in itself

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because you have to be creative in how,

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you know, you are going to interact with

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the ocean when you

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when you do your study.

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You know, you might be using technical

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tools to be able to gather the data, but

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you still have to be able

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to work within that medium.

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You have to adapt quickly, but you have

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to be creative in how you are going to

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collect that data to make sure that it's

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not only the right data, but you're

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getting all of it back.

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And that takes some creative practice,

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probably not in the same way as someone

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01:08:56,500 --> 01:08:58,041
with the background in fine arts, but it

285
01:08:58,041 --> 01:09:00,333
still allows us to be to be creative.

286
01:09:00,375 --> 01:09:04,375
And I had a guest recently on Beyond Jaws

287
01:09:04,375 --> 01:09:07,458
podcast who was worried about it not

288
01:09:07,458 --> 01:09:09,625
being more creative because, you know,

289
01:09:09,625 --> 01:09:11,166
she had some learning disabilities and

290
01:09:11,166 --> 01:09:13,083
being creative was really a good part to

291
01:09:13,083 --> 01:09:14,250
help her express, you

292
01:09:14,250 --> 01:09:15,750
know, and understand things.

293
01:09:15,750 --> 01:09:18,458
And when her advisor said, no, you could

294
01:09:18,458 --> 01:09:20,208
actually be very creative in how you

295
01:09:20,208 --> 01:09:21,750
design your study, it

296
01:09:21,750 --> 01:09:23,333
really opened up her mind to it.

297
01:09:23,375 --> 01:09:25,625
So I think a lot of scientists and

298
01:09:25,625 --> 01:09:28,250
engineers and so forth in the STEM area

299
01:09:28,250 --> 01:09:30,250
need to open up her minds a little bit to

300
01:09:30,250 --> 01:09:31,458
understand that, yeah, no, we are

301
01:09:31,458 --> 01:09:33,500
creative because you've never seen a more

302
01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:35,666
creative person than an engineer or a

303
01:09:35,666 --> 01:09:36,916
scientist out at sea.

304
01:09:37,375 --> 01:09:38,916
You know, when something goes wrong or an

305
01:09:38,916 --> 01:09:41,041
instrument is not working and be able to

306
01:09:41,041 --> 01:09:43,083
MacGyver something together and they

307
01:09:43,083 --> 01:09:43,333
don't piece things together.

308
01:09:43,375 --> 01:09:46,125
So that's that's how I see it as

309
01:09:46,125 --> 01:09:48,041
creative. So I think there's a lot more

310
01:09:48,041 --> 01:09:50,250
of that bridge than we than we initially

311
01:09:50,250 --> 01:09:52,916
think. And I think the more we build

312
01:09:52,916 --> 01:09:55,083
relationships and interact with with with

313
01:09:55,083 --> 01:09:57,750
artists and understand how they express,

314
01:09:58,000 --> 01:09:59,916
you know, like the science or the message

315
01:09:59,916 --> 01:10:01,833
that we're trying to put out, I think you

316
01:10:01,833 --> 01:10:04,166
can get a lot of synergies within that.

317
01:10:04,166 --> 01:10:07,000
So so I love that that aspect. Do I want

318
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,291
you to just tell me about. Oh, sorry, I

319
01:10:09,291 --> 01:10:10,333
didn't mean to interrupt you. Were you gonna say something?

320
01:10:10,375 --> 01:10:12,625
I was just gonna say another thing, which

321
01:10:12,625 --> 01:10:15,166
is that, you know, it's it's really about

322
01:10:15,166 --> 01:10:18,125
curiosity. Yes. And, you know, that is

323
01:10:18,125 --> 01:10:19,875
key for the scientists, but also for the

324
01:10:19,875 --> 01:10:22,541
for the artist. Yes. They're trying to

325
01:10:22,541 --> 01:10:24,083
understand and they're trying to

326
01:10:24,083 --> 01:10:28,708
understand how we relate to things and

327
01:10:28,708 --> 01:10:30,000
how we can really

328
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,333
understand express and communicate.

329
01:10:32,458 --> 01:10:37,000
So curiosity is a shared language.

330
01:10:37,666 --> 01:10:41,250
Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, tell us

331
01:10:41,250 --> 01:10:44,041
about what this the fellowship is. What

332
01:10:44,041 --> 01:10:47,083
it what what does it entail? How do

333
01:10:47,083 --> 01:10:50,250
artists become part of the reply to be

334
01:10:50,250 --> 01:10:51,958
part of this fellowship? How does it all

335
01:10:51,958 --> 01:10:54,916
work? Yeah, we've, Parvin is

336
01:10:54,916 --> 01:10:56,333
our sixth Art Science Fellow.

337
01:10:56,375 --> 01:11:01,875
And Dennis was our second. So we're still

338
01:11:01,875 --> 01:11:07,500
pretty young on this. But we recruit, we

339
01:11:07,500 --> 01:11:11,041
offer this fellowship to grad students at

340
01:11:11,041 --> 01:11:13,750
the University of Victoria. And it's a

341
01:11:13,750 --> 01:11:16,500
four month fellowship program, we provide

342
01:11:16,500 --> 01:11:19,833
a stipend, we bring them into our

343
01:11:19,833 --> 01:11:23,375
organization, and we invite them to be

344
01:11:23,375 --> 01:11:25,333
embedded with one of our teams, come together and do a fellowship.

345
01:11:25,375 --> 01:11:26,375
We invite them to join other teams, come

346
01:11:26,375 --> 01:11:29,833
to the regular staff meetings, join other

347
01:11:29,833 --> 01:11:32,208
meetings, learn about the science, learn

348
01:11:32,208 --> 01:11:34,791
about the technology, go visit our Marine

349
01:11:34,791 --> 01:11:39,166
Technology Center, just kind of get

350
01:11:39,166 --> 01:11:43,708
embedded and involved and let the the

351
01:11:43,708 --> 01:11:47,250
organizational activities seep into their

352
01:11:47,250 --> 01:11:49,458
their outlook and their view.

353
01:11:51,958 --> 01:11:55,125
Then they're free to create something,

354
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,541
work with others or work on their own and

355
01:11:58,541 --> 01:12:01,250
develop and develop their own practice.

356
01:12:02,833 --> 01:12:07,000
So they may spend time at ONC or in a

357
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,916
studio or going back and forth. Parvin's

358
01:12:09,916 --> 01:12:14,583
been doing that. And when it was Dennis's

359
01:12:14,583 --> 01:12:15,625
turn, he worked remote

360
01:12:15,625 --> 01:12:16,708
because it was COVID.

361
01:12:17,375 --> 01:12:20,666
Yeah. So it's just trying to bring them

362
01:12:20,666 --> 01:12:24,708
in to help them understand. And also, to

363
01:12:24,708 --> 01:12:29,625
bring that kind of, you know, arts point

364
01:12:29,625 --> 01:12:33,250
of view to the science groups, they may

365
01:12:33,250 --> 01:12:36,458
be able to ask questions in a different

366
01:12:36,458 --> 01:12:39,083
way and think about things in new ways.

367
01:12:39,375 --> 01:12:40,416
And so we've had some fascinating

368
01:12:40,416 --> 01:12:44,125
conversations with deep CEO geophysicists

369
01:12:44,125 --> 01:12:47,458
talking about the, you know, the networks

370
01:12:47,458 --> 01:12:49,791
and the memories of hydrothermal vents.

371
01:12:49,791 --> 01:12:52,125
We'll get into this later. Yeah. Yeah.

372
01:12:52,416 --> 01:12:53,833
Unreal. Unreal. That's awesome.

373
01:12:54,375 --> 01:12:58,458
Now, Dennis, when you you were the second

374
01:12:58,458 --> 01:13:00,875
person to come through the fellowship,

375
01:13:01,625 --> 01:13:03,583
but you come from a background of

376
01:13:03,583 --> 01:13:08,375
theater. What is it for you about theater

377
01:13:08,375 --> 01:13:11,000
that allows you to express you like

378
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:12,791
express the message that you're trying to

379
01:13:12,791 --> 01:13:13,833
get it across, whether it's

380
01:13:13,833 --> 01:13:15,083
science or any other message?

381
01:13:15,583 --> 01:13:16,916
Why did you choose theater

382
01:13:16,916 --> 01:13:19,000
as that as your art form?

383
01:13:20,708 --> 01:13:24,500
Well, part of it is the history of my

384
01:13:24,500 --> 01:13:27,958
embodied expression. I was earlier

385
01:13:27,958 --> 01:13:30,666
introduced to theater and probably if I

386
01:13:30,666 --> 01:13:33,208
was introduced to creative writing and I

387
01:13:33,208 --> 01:13:36,041
have mentors in filmmaking, I

388
01:13:36,041 --> 01:13:38,125
would also go in that field.

389
01:13:38,375 --> 01:13:43,375
But early on, I saw a pantomime group in

390
01:13:43,375 --> 01:13:46,583
our village and I was taken by the power

391
01:13:46,583 --> 01:13:52,458
of real commitment to express beyond oral

392
01:13:52,458 --> 01:13:55,958
language because Philippines is really

393
01:13:55,958 --> 01:14:00,333
it's a traditional country

394
01:14:00,333 --> 01:14:03,500
where we rely on oral expression.

395
01:14:04,375 --> 01:14:06,583
And I saw that performance and it's

396
01:14:06,583 --> 01:14:08,791
devoid of language and they're almost

397
01:14:08,791 --> 01:14:11,625
dancing. It's an international group as

398
01:14:11,625 --> 01:14:16,708
well. So and eventually I realized that

399
01:14:16,708 --> 01:14:18,500
this is something that I really would

400
01:14:18,500 --> 01:14:20,958
like to develop in me this

401
01:14:20,958 --> 01:14:23,916
kind of craft of expressivity.

402
01:14:24,375 --> 01:14:28,375
And then several years after I saw a

403
01:14:28,375 --> 01:14:31,166
filmmaker also went to our community and

404
01:14:31,166 --> 01:14:34,083
now is a national artist for film Ismael

405
01:14:34,083 --> 01:14:36,791
Bernal and I saw the leadership of this

406
01:14:36,791 --> 01:14:39,875
director commanding the community to be

407
01:14:39,875 --> 01:14:41,416
quiet because here in the Philippines

408
01:14:41,416 --> 01:14:44,333
when there's a film making sessions or

409
01:14:44,333 --> 01:14:46,250
film shooting, people

410
01:14:46,250 --> 01:14:48,333
would gather and watch as well.

411
01:14:48,375 --> 01:14:52,125
So it's all like the community and I and

412
01:14:52,125 --> 01:14:54,666
this community is really busy and danced

413
01:14:54,666 --> 01:14:58,708
and crowded. So when he commanded them to

414
01:14:58,708 --> 01:15:02,666
be quiet, they are there. They became

415
01:15:02,666 --> 01:15:05,958
quiet. And I said, maybe I'm attracted

416
01:15:05,958 --> 01:15:07,125
also in this kind of

417
01:15:07,125 --> 01:15:08,333
leadership in creative.

418
01:15:08,375 --> 01:15:13,166
Amazing. Now, growing up in the

419
01:15:13,166 --> 01:15:17,416
Philippines, you grow up with a lot of

420
01:15:17,416 --> 01:15:20,208
storms. You know, we talked earlier

421
01:15:20,208 --> 01:15:21,958
before we started recording, you

422
01:15:21,958 --> 01:15:24,416
mentioned how, you know, typhoons is like

423
01:15:24,416 --> 01:15:26,666
a, you know, it's expected, you know,

424
01:15:26,916 --> 01:15:28,333
sometimes, hopefully not too

425
01:15:28,333 --> 01:15:29,333
severe, but it's it's expected.

426
01:15:29,375 --> 01:15:31,166
I think you mentioned there's like

427
01:15:31,166 --> 01:15:34,291
sometimes 20 in a season and the rest of

428
01:15:34,291 --> 01:15:35,625
us were like, holy cow, I can't believe,

429
01:15:36,041 --> 01:15:37,375
you know, that's a that's a normal thing,

430
01:15:37,375 --> 01:15:39,208
but that's a normal thing growing up and

431
01:15:39,208 --> 01:15:42,166
some are more devastating than others.

432
01:15:42,750 --> 01:15:46,750
Can you talk about how typhoon Yolanda

433
01:15:46,750 --> 01:15:50,708
changed your understanding, you know, of

434
01:15:50,708 --> 01:15:53,583
your role as an artist within your

435
01:15:53,583 --> 01:15:54,958
village and country?

436
01:15:56,750 --> 01:16:00,458
Yeah, so I there's this anthropologist,

437
01:16:00,750 --> 01:16:02,583
feminist anthropologist and geographer

438
01:16:02,583 --> 01:16:06,000
Kia, Kia Okambogoa, and she said that

439
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,875
disasters are like weathers. It's an

440
01:16:08,875 --> 01:16:11,000
everyday thing in the Philippines.

441
01:16:11,375 --> 01:16:14,500
And you have no other choice but to be

442
01:16:14,500 --> 01:16:18,875
confronted by the violence of the

443
01:16:18,875 --> 01:16:21,041
weathers, extreme weathers,

444
01:16:21,041 --> 01:16:22,083
events in the Philippines.

445
01:16:22,833 --> 01:16:27,875
And Filipinos have probably tried to be

446
01:16:27,875 --> 01:16:29,333
improvisational with it.

447
01:16:29,375 --> 01:16:31,666
But at the same time, there's also this

448
01:16:31,666 --> 01:16:34,708
kind of activist consciousness that we

449
01:16:34,708 --> 01:16:37,875
don't want it anymore. Like we have to

450
01:16:37,875 --> 01:16:41,541
recreate an imagination that these

451
01:16:41,541 --> 01:16:44,333
disasters are real devastating.

452
01:16:44,500 --> 01:16:48,041
It costs a lot of, you know, resources

453
01:16:48,041 --> 01:16:52,500
and lives. So we have to refuse it. And I

454
01:16:52,500 --> 01:16:55,166
think that I'm already in this kind of

455
01:16:55,166 --> 01:16:59,833
philosophy that my art has to contribute

456
01:16:59,833 --> 01:17:03,791
in, you know, advocating for a more

457
01:17:03,791 --> 01:17:08,541
justice, social justice

458
01:17:08,541 --> 01:17:09,958
when we think about typhoons.

459
01:17:10,375 --> 01:17:13,833
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, that's really

460
01:17:13,833 --> 01:17:16,833
interesting. Now, you describe before,

461
01:17:18,250 --> 01:17:20,708
when we spoke your your master's journey,

462
01:17:20,708 --> 01:17:25,250
you know, as a search for answers, you

463
01:17:25,250 --> 01:17:28,666
know, looking at answers and the question

464
01:17:28,666 --> 01:17:29,875
I have for you is like, what did you

465
01:17:29,875 --> 01:17:32,041
discover about that intersection of

466
01:17:32,041 --> 01:17:33,583
climate change and

467
01:17:33,583 --> 01:17:35,166
performance art along the way?

468
01:17:35,375 --> 01:17:36,500
Like, how did you see

469
01:17:36,500 --> 01:17:37,333
that coming together?

470
01:17:37,375 --> 01:17:41,375
Yeah, I, you know, I always tell my

471
01:17:41,375 --> 01:17:43,916
students that my migration to Canada is

472
01:17:43,916 --> 01:17:47,458
also a migration of search for my own

473
01:17:47,458 --> 01:17:49,708
craft because I wanted to go deep with my

474
01:17:49,708 --> 01:17:53,166
craft and I was an international student,

475
01:17:53,375 --> 01:17:55,958
but it was also confronting the truth

476
01:17:55,958 --> 01:17:59,125
about climate justice and climate

477
01:17:59,125 --> 01:17:59,333
injustice in the Philippines.

478
01:17:59,375 --> 01:18:03,291
Because when I arrived in Canada at the

479
01:18:03,291 --> 01:18:06,416
University of British Columbia, that was

480
01:18:06,416 --> 01:18:09,208
September and November there was a big

481
01:18:09,208 --> 01:18:11,125
typhoon, super typhoon, Yolande, as you

482
01:18:11,125 --> 01:18:13,541
mentioned. My supervisor, one of my

483
01:18:13,541 --> 01:18:16,875
teachers said, come to my office, I'll

484
01:18:16,875 --> 01:18:17,750
show you something,

485
01:18:18,166 --> 01:18:18,333
I'll tell you something.

486
01:18:18,375 --> 01:18:20,500
And she said that there was a big

487
01:18:20,500 --> 01:18:22,500
typhoon. And I said, don't worry, because

488
01:18:22,500 --> 01:18:24,791
we always have that we have phones of

489
01:18:24,791 --> 01:18:27,166
typhoons. And she showed me photos,

490
01:18:27,916 --> 01:18:29,500
images online of the

491
01:18:29,500 --> 01:18:31,333
devastation of super typhoon.

492
01:18:31,375 --> 01:18:35,250
I was quite shocked because I was from

493
01:18:35,250 --> 01:18:38,250
the Philippines and never really imagined

494
01:18:38,250 --> 01:18:41,000
the kind of magnitude and the violence of

495
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:46,041
that kind of typhoon. And it started to

496
01:18:46,041 --> 01:18:50,041
dawn on me that the relevance, the

497
01:18:50,041 --> 01:18:53,416
extreme relevance of art, what is this

498
01:18:53,416 --> 01:18:55,583
art about when there's so much

499
01:18:55,583 --> 01:18:57,333
suffering in the Philippines?

500
01:18:57,375 --> 01:18:58,916
The Philippines and they were talking

501
01:18:58,916 --> 01:19:01,333
about climate change and there was kind

502
01:19:01,333 --> 01:19:03,416
of a disconnect to me, like, what is

503
01:19:03,416 --> 01:19:06,375
climate change? I've been hearing it as a

504
01:19:06,375 --> 01:19:08,250
concept, as a theory probably.

505
01:19:09,458 --> 01:19:10,833
And I was trying to connect with the

506
01:19:10,833 --> 01:19:14,750
global warming because that was the idea

507
01:19:14,750 --> 01:19:19,541
that I grew up with during my youth in

508
01:19:19,541 --> 01:19:20,375
the Philippines, global

509
01:19:20,375 --> 01:19:21,583
warming, global warming.

510
01:19:22,750 --> 01:19:28,916
And I finished it. I continued my MFA and

511
01:19:28,916 --> 01:19:33,416
then I went ahead with my PhD. So I went

512
01:19:33,416 --> 01:19:35,291
to University of Victoria because I

513
01:19:35,291 --> 01:19:38,250
really wanted to interrogate my artistic

514
01:19:38,250 --> 01:19:41,250
practice and artistic method and the

515
01:19:41,250 --> 01:19:43,750
philosophy behind and the philosophy

516
01:19:43,750 --> 01:19:46,333
behind art and its relevance.

517
01:19:46,375 --> 01:19:49,500
And then, yeah, and I started writing

518
01:19:49,500 --> 01:19:52,833
about climate change and applied theater

519
01:19:52,833 --> 01:19:56,208
and indigenous ecological knowledge. And

520
01:19:56,208 --> 01:19:59,208
I realized that, you know, engaging with

521
01:19:59,208 --> 01:20:02,416
art, you should just, we

522
01:20:02,416 --> 01:20:03,333
should not stop with aesthetics.

523
01:20:03,375 --> 01:20:06,125
We also have to think about the ethics

524
01:20:06,125 --> 01:20:10,708
behind it and also the politics that you

525
01:20:10,708 --> 01:20:14,916
can, you know, shape and forge and the

526
01:20:14,916 --> 01:20:16,916
voice and the agency that you could

527
01:20:16,916 --> 01:20:20,916
discover and extend it to the people and

528
01:20:20,916 --> 01:20:21,708
the communities that

529
01:20:21,708 --> 01:20:23,333
you would like to work on.

530
01:20:23,416 --> 01:20:26,833
And, you know, eventually I met Dwight

531
01:20:26,833 --> 01:20:31,541
and ONC and had to discover the great

532
01:20:31,541 --> 01:20:33,750
potential of collaboration within this

533
01:20:33,750 --> 01:20:37,041
artistic embodiment and inquiry.

534
01:20:38,708 --> 01:20:40,541
Wonderful. Can you, before we were going

535
01:20:40,541 --> 01:20:43,416
to ask Parvin on her, a bit of a bit of

536
01:20:43,416 --> 01:20:46,291
her background and how she got to ONC.

537
01:20:46,791 --> 01:20:49,125
Before we do, can you talk about one of

538
01:20:49,125 --> 01:20:51,291
your theater projects before meeting,

539
01:20:51,625 --> 01:20:52,333
before coming to ONC?

540
01:20:52,375 --> 01:20:54,583
And what that looked like right before

541
01:20:54,583 --> 01:20:56,500
and what that looked like. Had it already

542
01:20:56,500 --> 01:20:58,125
had you already been on your journey

543
01:20:58,125 --> 01:21:01,291
towards like with climate change or were

544
01:21:01,291 --> 01:21:03,125
you still like discovering that part?

545
01:21:03,875 --> 01:21:05,541
Yeah, I think it's also an ongoing

546
01:21:05,541 --> 01:21:10,583
process for me before coming here in the

547
01:21:10,583 --> 01:21:12,500
Philippines, doing my visiting research

548
01:21:12,500 --> 01:21:14,083
fellowship at the University of the

549
01:21:14,083 --> 01:21:15,333
Philippines, Los Panios.

550
01:21:15,375 --> 01:21:19,083
I taught a spring course at my home

551
01:21:19,083 --> 01:21:20,833
department, University of Winnipeg,

552
01:21:21,583 --> 01:21:24,125
Applied Theater and Climate Change. So I

553
01:21:24,125 --> 01:21:28,708
have this collaboration with faculty

554
01:21:28,708 --> 01:21:31,083
members from different different faculty

555
01:21:31,083 --> 01:21:35,958
departments of our university and to

556
01:21:35,958 --> 01:21:40,166
introduce our students, theater students

557
01:21:40,166 --> 01:21:42,875
and education students and also

558
01:21:42,875 --> 01:21:43,333
environmental students.

559
01:21:43,375 --> 01:21:47,250
It's a very interdisciplinary work. So we

560
01:21:47,250 --> 01:21:49,458
have this faculty members coming to my

561
01:21:49,458 --> 01:21:52,166
class, engaging the students to think

562
01:21:52,166 --> 01:21:53,583
about the climate change

563
01:21:53,583 --> 01:21:55,291
and the science behind it.

564
01:21:55,291 --> 01:21:57,666
And then we recreate the kind of

565
01:21:57,666 --> 01:22:00,291
experience of listening to the data and

566
01:22:00,291 --> 01:22:02,583
receiving the data into more performative

567
01:22:02,583 --> 01:22:04,875
way. So that was my

568
01:22:04,875 --> 01:22:07,333
before before coming here.

569
01:22:07,375 --> 01:22:10,500
I had this very strong energy and

570
01:22:10,500 --> 01:22:12,541
exciting energy from the students and

571
01:22:12,541 --> 01:22:16,375
faculty members. Now I'm doing this kind

572
01:22:16,375 --> 01:22:19,500
of extended Gossip with Wales project

573
01:22:19,500 --> 01:22:23,375
that I created, co-created with artists

574
01:22:23,375 --> 01:22:26,333
and ONC and the university.

575
01:22:26,375 --> 01:22:30,250
You're so interested to fully stage it

576
01:22:30,250 --> 01:22:32,541
because I think Dwight said that I was at

577
01:22:32,541 --> 01:22:35,500
the I did my residency when there was a

578
01:22:35,500 --> 01:22:37,708
pandemic. Right. Little

579
01:22:37,708 --> 01:22:39,791
pandemic, little global pandemic.

580
01:22:40,375 --> 01:22:44,166
And the initial project was to stage a

581
01:22:44,166 --> 01:22:46,791
performance with immigrants community,

582
01:22:46,791 --> 01:22:48,458
Filipino immigrants community in

583
01:22:48,458 --> 01:22:51,458
Victoria. There was a pandemic. So we

584
01:22:51,458 --> 01:22:57,166
migrated into Zoom and one of the former

585
01:22:57,166 --> 01:22:59,666
deans of the University of the

586
01:22:59,666 --> 01:23:02,625
Philippines saw it and said, let's bring

587
01:23:02,625 --> 01:23:06,000
this to the Philippines and recreate.

588
01:23:06,375 --> 01:23:10,083
And now we're having a new iteration of

589
01:23:10,083 --> 01:23:13,250
our gossip with whales. The four songs

590
01:23:13,250 --> 01:23:15,625
are still there. We added one more

591
01:23:15,625 --> 01:23:19,875
composition and there's poetry now,

592
01:23:20,083 --> 01:23:21,333
there's choreography.

593
01:23:21,375 --> 01:23:26,000
There are five scientists who are coming

594
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:29,333
together, weaving in and out to the story

595
01:23:29,333 --> 01:23:34,791
to be part of the storytelling of this

596
01:23:34,791 --> 01:23:38,291
new production. Yeah, very nice. That is

597
01:23:38,291 --> 01:23:39,708
so cool. We're going to dive into that in

598
01:23:39,708 --> 01:23:41,166
just a second. But I just wanted to kind

599
01:23:41,166 --> 01:23:43,333
of ask part of a few questions.

600
01:23:43,375 --> 01:23:47,416
You mentioned you were born near the sea

601
01:23:47,416 --> 01:23:49,250
before moving to Tehran to do your

602
01:23:49,250 --> 01:23:52,416
university career. How did growing up in

603
01:23:52,416 --> 01:23:54,875
your water shape your artistic identity

604
01:23:54,875 --> 01:23:56,500
before you even knew

605
01:23:56,500 --> 01:23:57,333
you want to be a sculptor?

606
01:23:57,375 --> 01:24:02,375
Well, growing up near the sea, I think it

607
01:24:02,375 --> 01:24:06,708
created a lot of curiosity about the

608
01:24:06,708 --> 01:24:10,875
unknown, both because sea, ocean, all the

609
01:24:10,875 --> 01:24:13,708
time it was kind of mysterious space for

610
01:24:13,708 --> 01:24:18,541
me. And as as I started working with the

611
01:24:18,541 --> 01:24:21,041
art from early age, I all the time

612
01:24:21,041 --> 01:24:23,000
imagine in three

613
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:26,333
dimensional aspect of everything.

614
01:24:26,416 --> 01:24:31,083
So sea and ocean all the time, it was

615
01:24:31,083 --> 01:24:34,666
kind of mysterious place for me. Yeah, I

616
01:24:34,666 --> 01:24:36,833
can imagine that's a kind of a cool thing

617
01:24:36,833 --> 01:24:37,916
because there's so many just different

618
01:24:37,916 --> 01:24:40,291
things underneath the water, very

619
01:24:40,291 --> 01:24:42,083
different various shapes and branching

620
01:24:42,083 --> 01:24:45,083
out and you know, corals and so forth

621
01:24:45,083 --> 01:24:45,333
that have all these different shapes.

622
01:24:45,375 --> 01:24:47,500
I think it would be it would be pretty

623
01:24:47,500 --> 01:24:49,208
cool to Stephen have that in your

624
01:24:49,208 --> 01:24:53,125
imagination. Now you've described before

625
01:24:53,125 --> 01:24:55,250
like thinking through your hands as a

626
01:24:55,250 --> 01:24:57,791
central, essential to your early

627
01:24:57,791 --> 01:25:02,000
sculptural practice. Can you explain how

628
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:03,583
that connection still

629
01:25:03,583 --> 01:25:05,000
influences your work today?

630
01:25:06,541 --> 01:25:09,250
Yeah, I started working with materials

631
01:25:09,250 --> 01:25:14,208
when I was told and it was so surprising

632
01:25:14,208 --> 01:25:16,416
for me working with materials I spent

633
01:25:16,416 --> 01:25:20,958
time working with my hands because all

634
01:25:20,958 --> 01:25:24,416
the time I think material surprised me

635
01:25:24,416 --> 01:25:27,875
during the work because sometimes it it

636
01:25:27,875 --> 01:25:31,333
it it bonds and you can change it.

637
01:25:31,375 --> 01:25:35,208
And sometimes it holds you and it gives

638
01:25:35,208 --> 01:25:38,083
you a new idea about the work. And later

639
01:25:38,083 --> 01:25:42,458
when I studied bachelor of sculpture at

640
01:25:42,458 --> 01:25:45,208
the University of Tehran, I learned more

641
01:25:45,208 --> 01:25:47,916
how the sculptures can be related to

642
01:25:47,916 --> 01:25:50,666
creating the space, how you can activate

643
01:25:50,666 --> 01:25:53,458
the space and how you can create the

644
01:25:53,458 --> 01:25:55,875
space that the people and the viewers can

645
01:25:55,875 --> 01:25:58,666
come and look around and walk around your

646
01:25:58,666 --> 01:26:00,333
work and get the feeling about

647
01:26:00,375 --> 01:26:02,208
this three

648
01:26:02,208 --> 01:26:04,750
dimensional aspect of your work.

649
01:26:05,875 --> 01:26:09,583
Very cool, very cool. At some point, you

650
01:26:09,583 --> 01:26:12,500
were introduced to bio art during your

651
01:26:12,500 --> 01:26:15,375
undergraduate studies. What was it about

652
01:26:15,375 --> 01:26:18,083
that intersection of biology and art that

653
01:26:18,083 --> 01:26:20,875
first captured your attention and

654
01:26:20,875 --> 01:26:22,541
thinking like this is going to be

655
01:26:22,541 --> 01:26:23,333
something that I really wanted to.

656
01:26:23,375 --> 01:26:27,750
Bio art was really interesting for me

657
01:26:27,750 --> 01:26:31,750
because it gave me a new insight about

658
01:26:31,750 --> 01:26:34,958
the data, the new data that can that they

659
01:26:34,958 --> 01:26:38,583
could use in my work, especially about

660
01:26:38,583 --> 01:26:42,166
the hidden world in biology, which was

661
01:26:42,166 --> 01:26:44,875
surprising for me when I learned about

662
01:26:44,875 --> 01:26:47,208
the biology and art and how they can

663
01:26:47,208 --> 01:26:49,416
engage and how knowing about the

664
01:26:49,416 --> 01:26:50,708
scientific data and

665
01:26:50,708 --> 01:26:52,333
how can I show them as a

666
01:26:52,375 --> 01:26:57,375
specifically in the sculpture because my

667
01:26:57,375 --> 01:27:01,041
bachelor's work was about creating larger

668
01:27:01,041 --> 01:27:04,083
sculpture of neurons in the brain. So it

669
01:27:04,083 --> 01:27:08,083
gave me new forms. It gave me a chance to

670
01:27:08,083 --> 01:27:09,916
bring new kind of form

671
01:27:09,916 --> 01:27:11,250
in the sculpture as well.

672
01:27:12,458 --> 01:27:13,875
Very nice. Very nice.

673
01:27:15,791 --> 01:27:17,125
You've explored the brains neural

674
01:27:17,125 --> 01:27:19,958
networks before in your art and later

675
01:27:19,958 --> 01:27:23,000
compared the brain to the ocean. So what

676
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:25,958
parallels do you see between like the

677
01:27:25,958 --> 01:27:28,000
memory and human mind and the mysteries

678
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:29,791
of say like the deep sea.

679
01:27:31,375 --> 01:27:34,416
The first time that I started thinking

680
01:27:34,416 --> 01:27:37,458
about the team of memory in the brain, I

681
01:27:37,458 --> 01:27:40,666
didn't know that what aspect of it is

682
01:27:40,666 --> 01:27:43,000
more interesting for me. I just try to

683
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:45,916
learn more about the function of memory

684
01:27:45,916 --> 01:27:49,375
in the brain, how it can be possible to

685
01:27:49,375 --> 01:27:52,333
store the memory in the brain.

686
01:27:52,375 --> 01:27:56,291
And when I learned about neural network

687
01:27:56,291 --> 01:28:00,000
and how all of the synapses and how and

688
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:01,958
how all of those connections work

689
01:28:01,958 --> 01:28:04,958
together to create what we call memory,

690
01:28:06,750 --> 01:28:09,041
something clicked for me that everything

691
01:28:09,041 --> 01:28:10,958
is about the connection.

692
01:28:11,791 --> 01:28:15,333
And when I thought about later when I

693
01:28:15,333 --> 01:28:18,625
thought about the ocean, I think I

694
01:28:18,625 --> 01:28:20,666
brought that perspective with myself

695
01:28:20,666 --> 01:28:23,416
because the network was really

696
01:28:23,416 --> 01:28:25,500
interesting for me. The connection was

697
01:28:25,500 --> 01:28:26,333
really interesting for me.

698
01:28:26,375 --> 01:28:31,125
And then I thought about the ocean as a

699
01:28:31,125 --> 01:28:35,083
heat in landscape and I saw I thought

700
01:28:35,083 --> 01:28:37,958
that the brain and the ocean, all both of

701
01:28:37,958 --> 01:28:40,541
them, there are complex system and they

702
01:28:40,541 --> 01:28:43,500
have the heat involved. So I tried to

703
01:28:43,500 --> 01:28:46,666
kind of discover those heat and bolts and

704
01:28:46,666 --> 01:28:48,500
make some connection between these.

705
01:28:49,291 --> 01:28:50,375
Love it. That's awesome.

706
01:28:52,166 --> 01:28:54,166
What were you I asked Dennis the same

707
01:28:54,166 --> 01:28:56,166
thing. Can you give us an example of a

708
01:28:56,166 --> 01:28:58,000
sculpture that you did right before

709
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:01,250
working with ONC and then a sculpture you

710
01:29:01,250 --> 01:29:03,500
did after the I know you're just

711
01:29:03,500 --> 01:29:04,875
completing your fellowship. So I don't

712
01:29:04,875 --> 01:29:06,791
know if you've already created or

713
01:29:06,791 --> 01:29:08,833
finished creating those sculptures.

714
01:29:08,833 --> 01:29:10,416
But can you talk a little bit of what the

715
01:29:10,416 --> 01:29:12,750
sculptures look like beforehand and as

716
01:29:12,750 --> 01:29:14,625
compared to like during your fellowship.

717
01:29:15,875 --> 01:29:19,041
So my for my master degree at the

718
01:29:19,041 --> 01:29:22,250
University of Victoria, I focused on the

719
01:29:22,250 --> 01:29:25,458
idea of the water management system in

720
01:29:25,458 --> 01:29:28,500
Iran. The form of those water management

721
01:29:28,500 --> 01:29:30,833
system. It was thousands of shafts and

722
01:29:30,833 --> 01:29:35,083
tunnels, which I all of them inspired me

723
01:29:35,083 --> 01:29:38,625
to creating kind of infrastructures

724
01:29:38,625 --> 01:29:40,291
related to to the memory.

725
01:29:41,375 --> 01:29:46,416
So all of those forms led me to think

726
01:29:46,416 --> 01:29:50,958
about how can I make the place for the

727
01:29:50,958 --> 01:29:54,125
memory that place for for the memory. It

728
01:29:54,125 --> 01:29:58,583
was kind of tunnel shape that can be

729
01:29:58,583 --> 01:30:03,125
create a space for flowing the memory

730
01:30:03,125 --> 01:30:05,208
because for me, memory is

731
01:30:05,208 --> 01:30:07,333
not kind of the fixings.

732
01:30:07,375 --> 01:30:10,875
It's it can be changed. It can be

733
01:30:10,875 --> 01:30:12,583
constructed during the time.

734
01:30:13,375 --> 01:30:17,958
Love it. I'm going to go to back to

735
01:30:17,958 --> 01:30:20,916
Dennis and and when you first when you

736
01:30:20,916 --> 01:30:23,291
were doing your fellowship, I know it was

737
01:30:23,291 --> 01:30:25,875
over covid. So not it wasn't all in in in

738
01:30:25,875 --> 01:30:28,000
person. But when you had those initial

739
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:32,375
meetings with scientists at ONC, what was

740
01:30:32,375 --> 01:30:34,458
your first thoughts like in terms of

741
01:30:34,458 --> 01:30:36,125
hearing what they had to say and like

742
01:30:36,125 --> 01:30:36,333
what type of questions were you.

743
01:30:37,375 --> 01:30:42,416
I was really excited because it was yeah,

744
01:30:42,458 --> 01:30:45,000
it was covered. We need connections and I

745
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:49,541
knew it's going to be really an another

746
01:30:49,541 --> 01:30:54,041
school for me. I always wanted to you

747
01:30:54,041 --> 01:30:55,541
know collaboration for me is also

748
01:30:55,541 --> 01:30:58,458
interdisciplinary because it excites me

749
01:30:58,458 --> 01:31:00,333
to just be in this unknown space.

750
01:31:00,375 --> 01:31:03,541
The no ability of theater making is so

751
01:31:03,541 --> 01:31:05,791
important for me because I don't want to

752
01:31:05,791 --> 01:31:08,333
I want to build on the work that I'm

753
01:31:08,333 --> 01:31:11,166
doing, but I also would like to explore

754
01:31:11,166 --> 01:31:16,000
something that I have not been able to

755
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:17,916
explore in the previous work.

756
01:31:18,541 --> 01:31:21,166
Right. So I so raising questions,

757
01:31:21,416 --> 01:31:23,500
critical questions based on the previous

758
01:31:23,500 --> 01:31:28,000
work is a is an important method for me.

759
01:31:28,500 --> 01:31:32,041
So I I was asking about, yeah,

760
01:31:33,291 --> 01:31:35,291
representation, like because, you know,

761
01:31:35,291 --> 01:31:37,458
when when we think of

762
01:31:37,458 --> 01:31:39,791
art science, science, art,

763
01:31:40,875 --> 01:31:43,791
hybridity, it's always there's also power

764
01:31:43,791 --> 01:31:46,833
in that right because science has a lot

765
01:31:46,833 --> 01:31:50,083
of resources, the scientists they have

766
01:31:50,083 --> 01:31:52,208
because of the research they're doing.

767
01:31:52,208 --> 01:31:54,250
There's so much of value in terms of

768
01:31:54,250 --> 01:31:56,291
materiality. And when we

769
01:31:56,291 --> 01:31:57,958
engage with our science

770
01:31:58,375 --> 01:31:58,541
and we're always working with our

771
01:31:58,541 --> 01:32:01,791
students, interfacing, it seems that

772
01:32:01,791 --> 01:32:04,833
there's always we always run into

773
01:32:04,833 --> 01:32:08,583
bringing arts to communicate science

774
01:32:08,583 --> 01:32:12,583
themes. I wanted to theorize that I

775
01:32:12,583 --> 01:32:15,208
wanted to really know that when we come

776
01:32:15,208 --> 01:32:18,791
together, what's the next theory that we

777
01:32:18,791 --> 01:32:22,166
can engage in terms of knowledge

778
01:32:22,166 --> 01:32:24,333
production in terms of advocacy work.

779
01:32:24,375 --> 01:32:28,625
So there is this kind of hierarchy needs

780
01:32:28,625 --> 01:32:31,958
to be also challenged, right, when we are

781
01:32:31,958 --> 01:32:34,666
hybridizing. So it's not a it's not a

782
01:32:34,666 --> 01:32:37,833
transdisciplinary work that I have this

783
01:32:37,833 --> 01:32:42,541
question and I'm going to use a certain

784
01:32:42,541 --> 01:32:45,375
field to answer my question

785
01:32:45,375 --> 01:32:47,333
through my original field.

786
01:32:47,375 --> 01:32:51,250
It's two disciplines coming together,

787
01:32:51,250 --> 01:32:54,750
blurring it and really navigating the in

788
01:32:54,750 --> 01:33:00,000
between this of this two world. So, yeah,

789
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:01,958
the questions around representation that

790
01:33:01,958 --> 01:33:04,041
it's not just about communicating the

791
01:33:04,041 --> 01:33:06,125
themes of science but also communicating

792
01:33:06,125 --> 01:33:09,500
the themes of art and really

793
01:33:10,375 --> 01:33:14,125
propelling both powers so that you have

794
01:33:14,125 --> 01:33:15,666
one connected power.

795
01:33:17,333 --> 01:33:19,500
How did you find the people you met with

796
01:33:19,500 --> 01:33:21,375
for moments like the scientists and

797
01:33:21,375 --> 01:33:23,875
engineers and so forth? How did you find

798
01:33:23,875 --> 01:33:27,291
they reacted to that type of idea and

799
01:33:27,291 --> 01:33:30,041
theory of these two fields, you know,

800
01:33:30,458 --> 01:33:31,708
merging together and

801
01:33:31,708 --> 01:33:32,916
creating something new?

802
01:33:33,708 --> 01:33:38,625
You know, I am so generously gifted by

803
01:33:38,625 --> 01:33:42,291
the intelligences and the expertise of

804
01:33:42,291 --> 01:33:45,458
these people because I know that when we

805
01:33:45,458 --> 01:33:46,750
engage with interdisciplinary

806
01:33:46,750 --> 01:33:49,333
work, it's it's a scary thing.

807
01:33:49,375 --> 01:33:53,916
Right. Oh, and see, I remember, oh, and

808
01:33:53,916 --> 01:33:56,666
see, is always responsive and always

809
01:33:56,666 --> 01:34:04,833
giving to our lost nest. I'm also kind of

810
01:34:04,833 --> 01:34:09,625
lost. Right. And there are certain gaps

811
01:34:09,625 --> 01:34:10,500
that I really don't

812
01:34:10,500 --> 01:34:11,333
know what I'm doing here.

813
01:34:11,375 --> 01:34:14,000
But you know, the scientists because they

814
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:16,250
they're very solid with their practice

815
01:34:16,250 --> 01:34:20,333
and they're willing to, you know, share

816
01:34:20,333 --> 01:34:23,250
their method also. And I realize, oh,

817
01:34:23,625 --> 01:34:26,708
wow, we somehow I think carbon also share

818
01:34:26,708 --> 01:34:31,500
this that there's we share we overlap

819
01:34:31,500 --> 01:34:33,333
with the same method because it's

820
01:35:02,333 --> 01:35:06,666
it's so I have received the greatest

821
01:35:06,666 --> 01:35:10,541
generosity at that time during pandemic

822
01:35:10,541 --> 01:35:13,000
from the scientists and artists. Yeah,

823
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:16,166
worked. Do you incorporate some of the

824
01:35:16,166 --> 01:35:18,166
reactions and some of the feelings that

825
01:35:18,166 --> 01:35:20,916
the scientists had in your work? Like,

826
01:35:20,916 --> 01:35:22,875
did you notice like, you know, whether

827
01:35:22,875 --> 01:35:26,000
it's like excitement or curiosity, did

828
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:27,333
you incorporate that into?

829
01:35:27,375 --> 01:35:33,875
Yeah, yes, you know what I realize during

830
01:35:33,875 --> 01:35:37,500
that residency is the lesson of humility,

831
01:35:38,125 --> 01:35:43,083
both artists and scientists are you are

832
01:35:43,083 --> 01:35:47,125
confronted with big questions. And maybe

833
01:35:47,125 --> 01:35:50,791
you can answer them like climate change,

834
01:35:51,083 --> 01:35:53,333
like how do we really confront this?

835
01:35:53,375 --> 01:35:57,583
Like, one of the concepts that we talked

836
01:35:57,583 --> 01:35:59,791
about during the time was this kind of

837
01:35:59,791 --> 01:36:02,000
concept of we could probably get problems

838
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:04,708
like it keeps on eating. It's very

839
01:36:04,708 --> 01:36:10,166
complex problems. And I kept on studying

840
01:36:10,166 --> 01:36:12,666
this wicked problems because I realized

841
01:36:12,666 --> 01:36:15,333
that I also have to

842
01:36:15,333 --> 01:36:17,000
understand this, this concept.

843
01:36:18,916 --> 01:36:21,166
And I realized that, oh, I think that

844
01:36:21,166 --> 01:36:23,625
because this concept is also about

845
01:36:23,625 --> 01:36:26,083
managing you can only manage because it

846
01:36:26,083 --> 01:36:28,250
keeps on repeating. Now I realize that,

847
01:36:28,250 --> 01:36:31,041
hey, we also have to really transform

848
01:36:31,041 --> 01:36:34,125
this weekend problems. We should not stop

849
01:36:34,125 --> 01:36:37,416
receiving that this is wicked. We have to

850
01:36:37,416 --> 01:36:39,916
transform it. Right. So this is my

851
01:36:39,916 --> 01:36:43,625
current understanding with it. But part

852
01:36:43,625 --> 01:36:47,041
of this desire enthusiasm to solve this

853
01:36:47,041 --> 01:36:47,333
wicked problem is that we have to transform this.

854
01:36:47,375 --> 01:36:50,000
We can problem is great humility. That's

855
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:52,041
why we have to collaborate because I

856
01:36:52,041 --> 01:36:54,125
can't answer it. Yeah.

857
01:36:55,208 --> 01:36:58,000
Dwight, as Dennis is speaking, I see this

858
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:00,041
excitement on your face and this nodding

859
01:37:00,041 --> 01:37:04,416
as as Dennis was doing his fellowship.

860
01:37:04,416 --> 01:37:07,958
You know, what were your feelings around

861
01:37:07,958 --> 01:37:10,083
the work that was the outcomes of the

862
01:37:10,083 --> 01:37:12,041
work that that were that were presented

863
01:37:12,041 --> 01:37:14,416
in front of you and in front of like his

864
01:37:14,416 --> 01:37:15,458
audience and so forth?

865
01:37:16,916 --> 01:37:20,500
I would say it was all very mysterious to

866
01:37:20,500 --> 01:37:26,125
me because Dennis would he would go off

867
01:37:26,125 --> 01:37:28,666
and then he'd come back. He said, oh,

868
01:37:28,666 --> 01:37:31,958
well, we have a string ensemble that

869
01:37:31,958 --> 01:37:34,750
we're working with or we have a poet.

870
01:37:35,416 --> 01:37:38,166
Actually, it started with a poet who is

871
01:37:38,166 --> 01:37:39,666
who is writing to Nagas.

872
01:37:40,666 --> 01:37:43,208
And I had no idea what to Nagas were and

873
01:37:43,208 --> 01:37:47,666
I thought, OK, that's interesting. And

874
01:37:47,666 --> 01:37:50,041
later I actually tried to write some to

875
01:37:50,041 --> 01:37:52,250
Nagas because I was inspired about this.

876
01:37:52,541 --> 01:37:56,458
Nice. And so then the to Nagas somehow he

877
01:37:56,458 --> 01:38:03,083
had this mysterious process with the the

878
01:38:03,083 --> 01:38:09,333
the composer and the lyricist.

879
01:38:09,541 --> 01:38:13,000
And the I don't know all the people he

880
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:15,291
was working with. And and to me, it was

881
01:38:15,291 --> 01:38:17,375
very mysterious because we were all

882
01:38:17,375 --> 01:38:19,416
separated. You know, I was working from

883
01:38:19,416 --> 01:38:22,458
home. And in fact, the whole gossip was

884
01:38:22,458 --> 01:38:25,000
with Wales. Everyone was in their own

885
01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:27,583
homes. Right. Right. And it all got

886
01:38:27,583 --> 01:38:30,583
combined together. So and I would say I

887
01:38:30,583 --> 01:38:34,250
feel that same sense of mysterious

888
01:38:34,250 --> 01:38:36,500
curiosity about parvents work.

889
01:38:37,375 --> 01:38:40,000
Yeah, we'll have our weekly meetings and

890
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:42,125
I'll say, oh, part of it. Is there

891
01:38:42,125 --> 01:38:44,208
something you want to share? And then

892
01:38:44,208 --> 01:38:47,166
she'll pop up on the screen these latest

893
01:38:47,166 --> 01:38:49,333
things and talk about these experiments

894
01:38:49,333 --> 01:38:52,416
that she's done and these new materials.

895
01:38:52,416 --> 01:38:54,875
And it's a very, very

896
01:38:54,875 --> 01:38:58,000
kind of like an alchemist.

897
01:38:58,375 --> 01:38:59,625
And it's a very, very, very interesting

898
01:38:59,625 --> 01:39:02,541
process. Right. There's it. It's within

899
01:39:02,541 --> 01:39:04,791
the curiosity within the mystery of these

900
01:39:04,791 --> 01:39:08,166
layers. It's so cool. Part of it when you

901
01:39:08,166 --> 01:39:10,250
when when do I is talking about you

902
01:39:10,250 --> 01:39:14,166
experimenting with new materials from a

903
01:39:14,166 --> 01:39:16,291
sculptor's point of view when you're

904
01:39:16,291 --> 01:39:19,875
trying to, you know, look at new

905
01:39:19,875 --> 01:39:21,833
concepts, just like, you know, looking at

906
01:39:21,833 --> 01:39:23,291
memory through water.

907
01:39:27,375 --> 01:39:28,250
And I think that's interesting with a new

908
01:39:28,250 --> 01:39:31,166
material and where does that curiosity

909
01:39:31,166 --> 01:39:32,791
come from? It's like, oh, I'm going to

910
01:39:32,791 --> 01:39:34,875
work with this type of metal or I'm going

911
01:39:34,875 --> 01:39:37,291
to work with this type of maybe it's a

912
01:39:37,291 --> 01:39:39,625
plastic of some sort or, you know, a

913
01:39:39,625 --> 01:39:41,583
cable, like we mentioned earlier. What's

914
01:39:41,583 --> 01:39:45,041
it like for you to really start thinking

915
01:39:45,041 --> 01:39:48,500
about using a new material to get a

916
01:39:48,500 --> 01:39:50,208
specific message like, you

917
01:39:50,208 --> 01:39:51,458
know, water networks across?

918
01:39:53,458 --> 01:39:55,916
There's very interesting aspect of

919
01:39:55,916 --> 01:39:58,958
working with material, especially as a

920
01:39:58,958 --> 01:40:02,250
person who make who create a sculpture is

921
01:40:02,250 --> 01:40:03,250
that I'm not a stick

922
01:40:03,250 --> 01:40:04,333
to specific material.

923
01:40:04,375 --> 01:40:09,666
I try to get the new idea and spend time

924
01:40:09,666 --> 01:40:12,625
with the idea and realize that each

925
01:40:12,625 --> 01:40:17,250
material can be feet and can be engaging

926
01:40:17,250 --> 01:40:20,208
with that idea to release

927
01:40:20,208 --> 01:40:22,333
what's behind the concept.

928
01:40:23,375 --> 01:40:26,708
So what I did during my residency was

929
01:40:26,708 --> 01:40:30,500
that I spent time with the meetings with

930
01:40:30,500 --> 01:40:33,916
the scientists and with all of the

931
01:40:33,916 --> 01:40:37,000
samples, footages, images, and I try to

932
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:40,458
collect all of those data and spend time

933
01:40:40,458 --> 01:40:43,666
indulge with them and then select which

934
01:40:43,666 --> 01:40:47,166
part can be which which material can be a

935
01:40:47,166 --> 01:40:48,333
fit with that concept.

936
01:40:49,375 --> 01:40:53,458
I really enjoyed specifically with my

937
01:40:53,458 --> 01:40:55,666
residency because I think it was the

938
01:40:55,666 --> 01:41:00,541
first time that I really found the exact

939
01:41:00,541 --> 01:41:03,916
material with the data that I collected.

940
01:41:05,041 --> 01:41:07,541
I learned a lot. I learned two new

941
01:41:07,541 --> 01:41:09,750
techniques during my residency. It was my

942
01:41:09,750 --> 01:41:13,000
first time to work with them. And most of

943
01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:14,333
I think I really enjoy.

944
01:41:14,375 --> 01:41:18,833
Yeah, is there, you know, it's kind of

945
01:41:18,833 --> 01:41:20,625
funny, like when I when I think about

946
01:41:20,625 --> 01:41:24,041
what it's like when I'm trying to make it

947
01:41:24,041 --> 01:41:26,833
analogous to to like a scientist, it's

948
01:41:26,833 --> 01:41:27,958
like when you're first learning a

949
01:41:27,958 --> 01:41:29,666
statistical program, where you're trying

950
01:41:29,666 --> 01:41:32,958
to learn how to, you know, put out a new

951
01:41:32,958 --> 01:41:33,791
instrument or learn

952
01:41:33,791 --> 01:41:34,333
about that new instrument.

953
01:41:34,375 --> 01:41:37,541
There's always a learning curve, right?

954
01:41:37,875 --> 01:41:39,833
When you when you learn and sometimes

955
01:41:39,833 --> 01:41:41,416
that learning curve is very frustrating,

956
01:41:41,416 --> 01:41:43,000
you know, depending on your patients of

957
01:41:43,000 --> 01:41:45,250
the individual. I know for me learning

958
01:41:45,250 --> 01:41:47,750
are in graduate school. It was like the

959
01:41:47,750 --> 01:41:50,291
statistics like in this program was very

960
01:41:50,291 --> 01:41:51,666
challenging to a lot

961
01:41:51,666 --> 01:41:52,333
of us in grad school.

962
01:41:53,375 --> 01:41:55,791
Is there a challenge? Like, are there

963
01:41:55,791 --> 01:41:58,541
those challenges when you're using a new

964
01:41:58,541 --> 01:42:00,541
material in, you know, because like

965
01:42:00,541 --> 01:42:02,541
there's such a like I can imagine and

966
01:42:02,541 --> 01:42:04,083
then this is me coming from looking from

967
01:42:04,083 --> 01:42:05,083
outside in and you can

968
01:42:05,083 --> 01:42:06,250
correct me if I'm wrong.

969
01:42:07,833 --> 01:42:08,916
But like when you're when you're

970
01:42:08,916 --> 01:42:11,666
envisioning using a new material and then

971
01:42:11,666 --> 01:42:14,250
trying to figure out like this is how I

972
01:42:14,250 --> 01:42:16,166
want it to be displayed. But then you

973
01:42:16,166 --> 01:42:17,583
realize maybe it can't be displayed

974
01:42:17,583 --> 01:42:21,000
because it's not bending or saying how do

975
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:22,333
you overcome those challenges?

976
01:42:24,041 --> 01:42:25,666
Actually, it was really hard for me,

977
01:42:26,416 --> 01:42:28,500
especially, especially for one of the

978
01:42:28,500 --> 01:42:33,000
techniques about the electric it was a

979
01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:36,208
bit scientific and I haven't worked with

980
01:42:36,208 --> 01:42:38,583
electricity or something like this

981
01:42:38,583 --> 01:42:44,250
before. I had more than 10 maybe, maybe

982
01:42:44,250 --> 01:42:48,708
about two weeks, a trial and error to fix

983
01:42:48,708 --> 01:42:51,583
some of the problems, because it was my

984
01:42:51,583 --> 01:42:52,333
first time to learn about the new

985
01:42:52,375 --> 01:42:55,375
technology. I had to get the tools and

986
01:42:55,375 --> 01:42:58,666
work with the electricity and it was

987
01:42:58,666 --> 01:43:00,708
challenging, but I knew that I have to

988
01:43:00,708 --> 01:43:03,375
fix it because I wanted to make this

989
01:43:03,375 --> 01:43:06,333
work. It took time, but I could solve it.

990
01:43:06,375 --> 01:43:09,791
Yeah, no, that's amazing. Now during your

991
01:43:09,791 --> 01:43:12,291
fellowship, you shifted from focusing on

992
01:43:12,291 --> 01:43:14,500
human memory to exploring non human

993
01:43:14,500 --> 01:43:18,166
memory in the deep ocean. So how did the

994
01:43:18,166 --> 01:43:20,333
hydrothermal vents inspire the shift?

995
01:43:20,375 --> 01:43:26,666
I remember that for the first time that I

996
01:43:26,666 --> 01:43:29,541
saw the video of hydrothermal vent, I

997
01:43:29,541 --> 01:43:35,333
felt like they're like bodily archive of

998
01:43:35,333 --> 01:43:40,458
living system. So I think that they are

999
01:43:40,458 --> 01:43:45,041
alive because they rise. They breathe the

1000
01:43:45,041 --> 01:43:48,541
minerals to the ocean. They collapse and

1001
01:43:48,541 --> 01:43:50,333
they change over time. And it's not that they're alive.

1002
01:43:50,375 --> 01:43:53,375
It's the powerful aspect of those

1003
01:43:53,375 --> 01:43:56,458
structures. They are like chimneys, but I

1004
01:43:56,458 --> 01:44:00,500
think they're alive. So the perspiration

1005
01:44:00,500 --> 01:44:03,916
of the minerals, it creates very tall

1006
01:44:03,916 --> 01:44:07,916
chimneys. So the layering of those

1007
01:44:07,916 --> 01:44:10,333
minerals, it's really related to the

1008
01:44:10,333 --> 01:44:11,833
memory. It's not

1009
01:44:11,833 --> 01:44:14,333
separate maybe of our memory.

1010
01:44:14,375 --> 01:44:17,041
Maybe we cannot see the chimneys in our

1011
01:44:17,041 --> 01:44:20,250
brain, but we can see it in the ocean.

1012
01:44:21,041 --> 01:44:27,625
Wow. Wow. That's so cool. I guess like

1013
01:44:27,625 --> 01:44:30,000
when you look at the fellowship, like

1014
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:32,666
what piece of the fellowship or like the

1015
01:44:32,666 --> 01:44:35,166
project of the fellowship did you create

1016
01:44:35,166 --> 01:44:37,458
as part of it? Like what did you create

1017
01:44:37,458 --> 01:44:39,625
and how does it affect your

1018
01:44:39,625 --> 01:44:42,791
evolution of your thinking?

1019
01:44:44,583 --> 01:44:50,000
I think it's starting the structures of

1020
01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:53,875
those chimneys really helped me to think

1021
01:44:53,875 --> 01:44:59,000
about how can I push the idea of just

1022
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:02,375
making the objects, right? Especially

1023
01:45:02,375 --> 01:45:06,291
when I had a series of meeting with the

1024
01:45:06,291 --> 01:45:09,958
scientists and we spoke about the vents,

1025
01:45:09,958 --> 01:45:11,583
not just as a

1026
01:45:11,583 --> 01:45:13,333
specific point or just solid.

1027
01:45:41,458 --> 01:45:42,333
Or separate chimneys.

1028
01:45:42,791 --> 01:45:46,958
So it was a very specific moment of my

1029
01:45:46,958 --> 01:45:50,666
project because it helped me to create

1030
01:45:50,666 --> 01:45:56,166
several fragmented pieces. And then I'm

1031
01:45:56,166 --> 01:46:00,458
going to create a vast, a large

1032
01:46:00,458 --> 01:46:03,291
installation of these pieces that later

1033
01:46:03,291 --> 01:46:05,833
you can come and see, or I can send the

1034
01:46:05,833 --> 01:46:08,666
pictures for the people who cannot see.

1035
01:46:09,375 --> 01:46:11,375
That's terrific. Yeah, that'd be that'd

1036
01:46:11,375 --> 01:46:15,500
be awesome. Dwight, as we kind of like

1037
01:46:15,500 --> 01:46:18,000
look at this, as part of it is finishing

1038
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:20,458
up her fellowship and every starts

1039
01:46:20,458 --> 01:46:22,500
exciting, every finishing is exciting.

1040
01:46:23,250 --> 01:46:28,333
What does like ONC hope that the fellows

1041
01:46:28,333 --> 01:46:30,583
for this fellowship get out of the

1042
01:46:30,583 --> 01:46:34,458
program when they leave the fellowship?

1043
01:46:36,583 --> 01:46:41,125
Well, you know, in addition to learning

1044
01:46:41,125 --> 01:46:43,000
about the science and learning about how

1045
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:47,375
science organizations work and you know,

1046
01:46:47,375 --> 01:46:51,458
science, tech and, you know, developing

1047
01:46:51,458 --> 01:46:54,166
some of those connections, some of those

1048
01:46:54,166 --> 01:46:55,958
relationships with people

1049
01:46:55,958 --> 01:46:57,041
within our organization.

1050
01:46:58,375 --> 01:47:03,000
I'm also really hope for our fellows to

1051
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:06,416
get involved in the scholarship part. So

1052
01:47:06,416 --> 01:47:07,458
Dennis was talking a

1053
01:47:07,458 --> 01:47:08,500
little bit about this.

1054
01:47:10,375 --> 01:47:13,583
You know, what can what can art and

1055
01:47:13,583 --> 01:47:18,583
science working together come up with in

1056
01:47:18,583 --> 01:47:21,458
terms of, you know, new ways of thinking

1057
01:47:21,458 --> 01:47:23,583
about problems, maybe new ways of

1058
01:47:23,583 --> 01:47:27,166
thinking about wicked problems, maybe new

1059
01:47:27,166 --> 01:47:31,208
perspectives and what can this synergy

1060
01:47:31,208 --> 01:47:33,791
bring that would that will benefit not

1061
01:47:33,791 --> 01:47:35,875
only the science, not only the art, but

1062
01:47:35,875 --> 01:47:37,333
will benefit our society.

1063
01:47:37,375 --> 01:47:40,958
So I'm always encouraging our fellows to

1064
01:47:40,958 --> 01:47:44,625
get involved in the in the research and

1065
01:47:44,625 --> 01:47:47,791
in thinking about the theories and in

1066
01:47:47,791 --> 01:47:51,375
maybe writing something, co authoring

1067
01:47:51,375 --> 01:47:55,791
something and maybe doing some some

1068
01:47:55,791 --> 01:47:57,958
experiments, some research projects,

1069
01:47:58,625 --> 01:48:01,083
getting embedded with a big science

1070
01:48:01,083 --> 01:48:01,333
project in the future.

1071
01:48:01,375 --> 01:48:05,791
That would be just awesome. So yeah, I'm

1072
01:48:05,791 --> 01:48:09,291
seeing this not as a, you know, not as a

1073
01:48:09,291 --> 01:48:12,666
one and done. But yeah, this is the start

1074
01:48:12,666 --> 01:48:16,958
of who knows what could grow into within

1075
01:48:16,958 --> 01:48:19,916
the, you know, the personal path and

1076
01:48:19,916 --> 01:48:20,333
practice for each artist.

1077
01:48:20,375 --> 01:48:24,750
Are there I know it's hard to say now,

1078
01:48:24,750 --> 01:48:27,291
but are there opportunities for future

1079
01:48:27,291 --> 01:48:29,375
collaborations with artists who have come

1080
01:48:29,375 --> 01:48:31,333
through the fellowship program?

1081
01:48:31,375 --> 01:48:35,458
Well, for sure. And so Dennis and I,

1082
01:48:35,750 --> 01:48:38,916
Dennis has invited me to be part of at

1083
01:48:38,916 --> 01:48:41,583
least meet with the people as they create

1084
01:48:41,583 --> 01:48:44,625
this new production in the Philippines.

1085
01:48:45,041 --> 01:48:47,333
So if we can figure out the time zones.

1086
01:48:47,375 --> 01:48:53,291
Yeah, and part of in part of his

1087
01:48:53,291 --> 01:48:55,583
fellowship is coming to an end, but she

1088
01:48:55,583 --> 01:49:01,541
will be early career co chair of a

1089
01:49:01,541 --> 01:49:03,666
session on art and science at the ocean

1090
01:49:03,666 --> 01:49:06,666
sciences meeting in February in Glasgow.

1091
01:49:07,250 --> 01:49:09,333
Oh, fantastic. I hope she'll be there.

1092
01:49:09,375 --> 01:49:12,583
Yeah, I expect she'll be there to help

1093
01:49:12,583 --> 01:49:15,875
share that session to present her work.

1094
01:49:16,458 --> 01:49:21,833
And you know, to get involved with what's

1095
01:49:21,833 --> 01:49:23,875
to come. There's so many so many

1096
01:49:23,875 --> 01:49:27,041
wonderful opportunities that we can

1097
01:49:27,041 --> 01:49:29,791
create together. So yeah, absolutely,

1098
01:49:30,166 --> 01:49:33,208
absolutely. Now, Dennis, as you know,

1099
01:49:33,208 --> 01:49:35,291
you're hearing this, obviously, parven

1100
01:49:35,291 --> 01:49:38,125
has got some some plans after as the

1101
01:49:38,125 --> 01:49:38,333
fellowships is ending and you know,

1102
01:49:38,375 --> 01:49:41,541
you're hearing this, you know, the fellowships is ending and some ideas. Do

1103
01:49:41,541 --> 01:49:43,500
you find that the fellowship has really

1104
01:49:43,500 --> 01:49:48,000
expanded your career in terms of the

1105
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:49,500
thinking that you've been able to do the

1106
01:49:49,500 --> 01:49:51,166
theorizing you've been able to do and now

1107
01:49:51,166 --> 01:49:52,750
this production that you're putting out.

1108
01:49:53,125 --> 01:49:56,833
Do you see yourself continuing this path

1109
01:49:56,833 --> 01:50:00,333
where you're intersecting art and and

1110
01:50:00,333 --> 01:50:02,541
ocean science in particular or climate

1111
01:50:02,541 --> 01:50:03,541
science in particular?

1112
01:50:07,375 --> 01:50:12,666
So only also because aside from the joy

1113
01:50:12,666 --> 01:50:16,208
of collaboration and the joy of finding

1114
01:50:16,208 --> 01:50:19,000
new ways of doing things in

1115
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:21,083
terms of artistic creation.

1116
01:50:22,708 --> 01:50:26,500
There is a bigger task really for me and

1117
01:50:26,500 --> 01:50:30,166
that is the you know, the social pedagogy

1118
01:50:30,166 --> 01:50:33,291
that comes along with it, the kind of

1119
01:50:33,291 --> 01:50:37,041
responsibility that we need to forge in,

1120
01:50:37,041 --> 01:50:41,250
you know, making things change. We have

1121
01:50:41,250 --> 01:50:42,291
to make a breakthrough

1122
01:50:42,291 --> 01:50:44,333
with climate injustice.

1123
01:50:44,375 --> 01:50:48,333
This this, you know, when we are starting

1124
01:50:48,333 --> 01:50:53,458
our yeah, before coming here back in

1125
01:50:53,458 --> 01:50:58,166
Winnipeg, there's a forest fire that I've

1126
01:50:58,166 --> 01:51:01,500
experienced and smelling. I smell it,

1127
01:51:02,083 --> 01:51:05,500
right? And also there's darkness and you

1128
01:51:05,500 --> 01:51:06,333
know, one o'clock p.m.

1129
01:51:06,375 --> 01:51:09,541
It's so dark. Yeah, it's about so weird.

1130
01:51:10,458 --> 01:51:14,000
And then coming here doing an artist

1131
01:51:14,000 --> 01:51:17,833
residency with the artist, we have two

1132
01:51:17,833 --> 01:51:20,166
typhoons coming together. There's kind of

1133
01:51:20,166 --> 01:51:23,958
a co weathering of two typhoons. We are

1134
01:51:23,958 --> 01:51:26,958
haunted. It's it's lived whether in

1135
01:51:26,958 --> 01:51:28,333
Canada or here in the Philippines.

1136
01:51:28,375 --> 01:51:33,750
And I think that there's so much things

1137
01:51:33,750 --> 01:51:37,291
to really do in terms of generating this

1138
01:51:37,291 --> 01:51:38,875
kind of collaboration to make

1139
01:51:38,875 --> 01:51:42,166
breakthroughs to stop the injustices that

1140
01:51:42,166 --> 01:51:49,250
we are experiencing in this world. So it

1141
01:51:49,250 --> 01:51:51,000
will it's a commitment.

1142
01:51:51,666 --> 01:51:54,375
It's a life commitment. It's no longer

1143
01:51:54,375 --> 01:51:58,125
about, you know, creating one artistic

1144
01:51:58,125 --> 01:52:01,208
work after another. I've shifted. It's

1145
01:52:01,208 --> 01:52:04,458
now when I was really starting with my

1146
01:52:04,458 --> 01:52:11,416
career, it's I was just busy creating one

1147
01:52:11,416 --> 01:52:12,333
project after another.

1148
01:52:12,375 --> 01:52:15,541
But right now I became I realized that I

1149
01:52:15,541 --> 01:52:18,250
wanted long process. I want to really

1150
01:52:18,250 --> 01:52:22,833
engage with my method. And I'm no longer

1151
01:52:22,833 --> 01:52:26,041
bi-narristic about it, like the you

1152
01:52:26,041 --> 01:52:28,291
rehearse and then you create the show.

1153
01:52:28,291 --> 01:52:30,666
What if the process in itself is a show

1154
01:52:30,666 --> 01:52:34,500
and my audience as my collaborators, we

1155
01:52:34,500 --> 01:52:37,083
are also audience of our own work because

1156
01:52:37,083 --> 01:52:38,041
we're learning from

1157
01:52:38,041 --> 01:52:39,125
different disciplines.

1158
01:52:39,375 --> 01:52:43,291
And then we become embodied and live with

1159
01:52:43,291 --> 01:52:45,458
the things that we are. We are performing

1160
01:52:45,458 --> 01:52:47,541
the lessons that we're getting from our

1161
01:52:47,541 --> 01:52:50,500
process in our everyday life. So it's no

1162
01:52:50,500 --> 01:52:54,000
longer kind of a dichotomy. You know,

1163
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:56,333
maybe I could stop with my thought here.

1164
01:52:56,375 --> 01:53:02,791
In Bali, when I did my fellowship in

1165
01:53:02,791 --> 01:53:05,416
Indonesia for seven months, I went to

1166
01:53:05,416 --> 01:53:08,583
Bali and you know, the Balinese people,

1167
01:53:08,875 --> 01:53:11,166
they don't have word for art. They don't

1168
01:53:11,166 --> 01:53:14,166
even work for artists because every day

1169
01:53:14,166 --> 01:53:17,666
is an artistic work. So if you are a

1170
01:53:17,666 --> 01:53:20,958
barber, you're probably a musician too.

1171
01:53:21,750 --> 01:53:23,208
All right. So there's this kind of a

1172
01:53:23,208 --> 01:53:26,791
lived experiences of this, the science

1173
01:53:26,791 --> 01:53:29,000
and if you're a dentist, probably you're

1174
01:53:29,000 --> 01:53:32,250
also a mask maker. So there's this, yeah,

1175
01:53:32,666 --> 01:53:35,416
yeah, they mass. So some my theory is

1176
01:53:35,416 --> 01:53:38,250
colonialism really categorize

1177
01:53:38,250 --> 01:53:40,125
everything this thing, right.

1178
01:53:40,833 --> 01:53:43,333
And we need to combat that as well.

1179
01:53:44,583 --> 01:53:46,083
Yeah, yeah, very interesting.

1180
01:53:47,666 --> 01:53:50,125
Parvin, how about yourself when you

1181
01:53:50,125 --> 01:53:52,750
envision, you know, after this as you're

1182
01:53:52,750 --> 01:53:53,791
finishing up your fellowship, you

1183
01:53:53,791 --> 01:53:55,125
obviously have this installment that

1184
01:53:55,125 --> 01:53:59,000
you're working on. Do you see, you've

1185
01:53:59,000 --> 01:54:00,500
been you've been working with art and

1186
01:54:00,500 --> 01:54:02,791
science for a little bit now. Do you see

1187
01:54:02,791 --> 01:54:05,875
this as being, you know, just another

1188
01:54:05,875 --> 01:54:08,541
step in the journey of exploring, you

1189
01:54:08,541 --> 01:54:10,958
know, your, your journey within art and

1190
01:54:10,958 --> 01:54:12,458
or the intersection of art and science?

1191
01:54:13,875 --> 01:54:16,458
Absolutely, because it was my first time

1192
01:54:16,458 --> 01:54:19,000
to collaborate with the scientists. I

1193
01:54:19,000 --> 01:54:20,583
didn't have a chance to work with

1194
01:54:20,583 --> 01:54:22,750
scientists during my bachelor for the by

1195
01:54:22,750 --> 01:54:25,750
worth. But this time it was really

1196
01:54:25,750 --> 01:54:28,958
surprising for me when I had sessions and

1197
01:54:28,958 --> 01:54:30,791
meeting with the scientists and when I

1198
01:54:30,791 --> 01:54:35,166
talk with them and I saw that how much we

1199
01:54:35,166 --> 01:54:37,333
have in common in our conversation.

1200
01:54:37,375 --> 01:54:41,375
And it was it opened up a lot of I think

1201
01:54:41,375 --> 01:54:42,958
new insight for me for

1202
01:54:42,958 --> 01:54:45,083
my future project as well.

1203
01:54:45,083 --> 01:54:49,208
Love it. Now, for all start with Parvin,

1204
01:54:49,208 --> 01:54:52,208
then we'll ask Dennis. There's going to

1205
01:54:52,208 --> 01:54:53,875
be other fellows, you know, I don't know

1206
01:54:53,875 --> 01:54:54,916
when the next fellow is going to become,

1207
01:54:54,916 --> 01:54:56,291
but there's going to be another art

1208
01:54:56,291 --> 01:54:58,916
fellow. What would be your advice as

1209
01:54:58,916 --> 01:55:01,583
someone who's just finishing up to the

1210
01:55:01,583 --> 01:55:04,000
next fellow that comes in from from an

1211
01:55:04,000 --> 01:55:04,333
artist point of view?

1212
01:55:04,375 --> 01:55:11,833
I would say that bring a huge curiosity

1213
01:55:11,833 --> 01:55:15,083
by yourself and open up a lot of

1214
01:55:15,083 --> 01:55:19,208
questions because I found ONC very

1215
01:55:19,208 --> 01:55:22,458
responsive about all of the questions,

1216
01:55:22,708 --> 01:55:25,166
especially the question that I had. And I

1217
01:55:25,166 --> 01:55:27,958
had a really great experience working

1218
01:55:27,958 --> 01:55:31,208
with them because it helped me to expand

1219
01:55:31,208 --> 01:55:33,333
my experiences and expand my horizons.

1220
01:55:33,375 --> 01:55:36,833
About how the art and science can

1221
01:55:36,833 --> 01:55:40,666
intersect and how I can work in that

1222
01:55:40,666 --> 01:55:44,583
intersection. Yeah. Yeah, I love that.

1223
01:55:44,958 --> 01:55:48,750
And Dennis, how about yourself? Yeah, I

1224
01:55:48,750 --> 01:55:54,625
think this is an opportunity to make

1225
01:55:54,625 --> 01:55:58,250
sense of your humanity as well, you know,

1226
01:55:58,250 --> 01:56:00,625
because you're working with people who

1227
01:56:00,625 --> 01:56:01,916
have dedicated their

1228
01:56:01,916 --> 01:56:02,333
lives into practical thinking.

1229
01:56:02,375 --> 01:56:10,375
And I am and I am amazed with the

1230
01:56:10,375 --> 01:56:13,208
commitment, a commitment of the

1231
01:56:13,208 --> 01:56:18,083
scientists to provide a kind of a world

1232
01:56:18,083 --> 01:56:20,500
making right. Because when when we think

1233
01:56:20,500 --> 01:56:22,291
of science and arts, it kind of

1234
01:56:22,291 --> 01:56:25,416
separated. But somehow it echoes also to

1235
01:56:25,416 --> 01:56:28,208
to me that this kind of deep, deep

1236
01:56:28,208 --> 01:56:30,791
commitment to make things change.

1237
01:56:31,666 --> 01:56:34,250
Right. So I think that one should capture

1238
01:56:34,250 --> 01:56:39,916
that desire for change and

1239
01:56:39,916 --> 01:56:42,291
transformation. I saw that from working

1240
01:56:42,291 --> 01:56:47,166
with Juniper and Dwight and such a

1241
01:56:47,166 --> 01:56:51,833
beautiful theater to observe that kind of

1242
01:56:51,833 --> 01:56:54,500
commitment to their craft.

1243
01:56:55,666 --> 01:56:58,750
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And Dwight, final

1244
01:56:58,750 --> 01:57:01,166
question to you, as you know, you're

1245
01:57:01,166 --> 01:57:03,500
probably maybe looking over applicants.

1246
01:57:03,500 --> 01:57:06,458
I'm not sure who's coming in next or what

1247
01:57:06,458 --> 01:57:09,000
that person might be. What would be your

1248
01:57:09,000 --> 01:57:11,166
advice for any person coming in through

1249
01:57:11,166 --> 01:57:13,416
this fellowship? Any artists when they

1250
01:57:13,416 --> 01:57:14,708
when they arrive and

1251
01:57:14,708 --> 01:57:15,625
they do this fellowship?

1252
01:57:17,416 --> 01:57:20,000
Yeah, you know, I just want them to,

1253
01:57:21,500 --> 01:57:24,416
first of all, feel at home within our

1254
01:57:24,416 --> 01:57:27,166
organization, find a landing landing

1255
01:57:27,166 --> 01:57:29,666
place where they can feel like they

1256
01:57:29,666 --> 01:57:33,958
belong, feel part of the team. And then,

1257
01:57:33,958 --> 01:57:37,500
you know, as, as parven said, and Dennis,

1258
01:57:38,166 --> 01:57:42,125
you know, bring your full curiosity and

1259
01:57:42,125 --> 01:57:43,916
bring your questions, bring your ethics,

1260
01:57:44,291 --> 01:57:45,583
bring your world changing.

1261
01:57:46,541 --> 01:57:49,416
Bring your big ideas that maybe we didn't

1262
01:57:49,416 --> 01:57:52,166
think about because we were so stuck on

1263
01:57:52,166 --> 01:57:54,583
the data management system and the

1264
01:57:54,583 --> 01:57:59,375
technology. So you're going to be able to

1265
01:57:59,375 --> 01:58:03,000
help us, you know, crack open some things

1266
01:58:03,000 --> 01:58:07,416
that we didn't know we could. And so

1267
01:58:07,416 --> 01:58:08,625
you're going to be an

1268
01:58:08,625 --> 01:58:09,625
important part of that.

1269
01:58:10,375 --> 01:58:13,958
So I want them to feel that they're,

1270
01:58:13,958 --> 01:58:17,541
they're really valuable and that they

1271
01:58:17,541 --> 01:58:20,458
belong and what they're

1272
01:58:20,458 --> 01:58:21,916
doing is really matters.

1273
01:58:22,375 --> 01:58:24,125
It's very important work. Absolutely.

1274
01:58:24,625 --> 01:58:27,125
What a great way to sum up this

1275
01:58:27,125 --> 01:58:29,000
interview. I want to thank all three of

1276
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:30,958
you for joining me for the work that you

1277
01:58:30,958 --> 01:58:32,583
do and that you continue to do in the

1278
01:58:32,583 --> 01:58:33,791
future work that you're going to be doing

1279
01:58:33,791 --> 01:58:36,250
and really challenging our thought

1280
01:58:36,250 --> 01:58:38,916
processes and thinking about how, you

1281
01:58:38,916 --> 01:58:40,250
know, the environment is interacting with

1282
01:58:40,250 --> 01:58:42,083
us, how we interact with the environment

1283
01:58:42,083 --> 01:58:44,416
in a lot of different ways, not only just

1284
01:58:44,416 --> 01:58:46,250
from an environmental point of view, but

1285
01:58:46,250 --> 01:58:49,041
a social justice point of view and just

1286
01:58:49,041 --> 01:58:51,333
like an economic point of view as well.

1287
01:58:51,375 --> 01:58:53,208
And I think it really challenges us. So

1288
01:58:53,208 --> 01:58:55,541
thank you so much for all the work that

1289
01:58:55,541 --> 01:58:58,208
you've done and continue to do. And I

1290
01:58:58,208 --> 01:58:59,791
want to thank you for joining us. Love to

1291
01:58:59,791 --> 01:59:01,750
have you back on and discuss more more

1292
01:59:01,750 --> 01:59:05,458
art and science intersection. Wonderful.

1293
01:59:05,833 --> 01:59:06,333
So glad to be here with you.

1294
01:59:06,375 --> 01:59:10,916
Thank you so much. Thank you Parvin,

1295
01:59:10,916 --> 01:59:12,500
Dennis and Dwight for coming on the how

1296
01:59:12,500 --> 01:59:14,125
to protect the ocean podcast today. It

1297
01:59:14,125 --> 01:59:15,583
was great to have you part of our

1298
01:59:15,583 --> 01:59:18,125
surfacing secret series. And it was just

1299
01:59:18,125 --> 01:59:21,000
really great to explore how art and

1300
01:59:21,000 --> 01:59:23,541
science really connect. I just love

1301
01:59:23,541 --> 01:59:25,750
hearing your journeys and showing us how

1302
01:59:25,750 --> 01:59:28,583
deeply art and science can intertwine not

1303
01:59:28,583 --> 01:59:31,041
just communicate ocean science, but to

1304
01:59:31,041 --> 01:59:33,333
heal, connect and reimagine our relationship with the sea.

1305
01:59:34,375 --> 01:59:37,791
I love that fact. And if you enjoyed this

1306
01:59:37,791 --> 01:59:39,750
episode, be sure to check out our show

1307
01:59:39,750 --> 01:59:41,750
notes for links to their work and more

1308
01:59:41,750 --> 01:59:44,166
about Ocean Networks Canada Art Science

1309
01:59:44,166 --> 01:59:45,958
Fellowship. And if you have any comments,

1310
01:59:46,500 --> 01:59:47,916
I would love to hear them. Just put them

1311
01:59:47,916 --> 01:59:48,916
in the comments below if you're watching

1312
01:59:48,916 --> 01:59:50,500
this on YouTube. And of course, if you're

1313
01:59:50,500 --> 01:59:52,583
listening to this on the audio version in

1314
01:59:52,583 --> 01:59:54,875
your favorite podcast app, please feel

1315
01:59:54,875 --> 01:59:57,166
free to connect with me on Instagram. DM

1316
01:59:57,166 --> 01:59:59,625
me at how to protect the ocean. That's at

1317
01:59:59,625 --> 02:00:01,750
how to protect the ocean. And of course,

1318
02:00:01,750 --> 02:00:02,333
you can always connect with me through our website.

1319
02:00:02,375 --> 02:00:07,166
www.speakupforblue.com forward slash

1320
02:00:07,166 --> 02:00:09,250
contact just fill out the form. It'll go

1321
02:00:09,250 --> 02:00:11,083
right to my email and I will respond as

1322
02:00:11,083 --> 02:00:13,916
soon as I can. I want to thank Parvin. I

1323
02:00:13,916 --> 02:00:15,250
want to thank Dennis. I want to thank

1324
02:00:15,250 --> 02:00:17,375
Dwight for joining us on today's episode.

1325
02:00:17,375 --> 02:00:18,458
And I want to thank Ocean Networks Canada

1326
02:00:18,458 --> 02:00:21,291
for just providing so much great content

1327
02:00:21,291 --> 02:00:23,875
for not only this podcast, but also for

1328
02:00:23,875 --> 02:00:26,083
you to hear what they're up to each and

1329
02:00:26,083 --> 02:00:28,250
every year. I just love it. Thank you so

1330
02:00:28,250 --> 02:00:29,958
much for joining us on today's episode of

1331
02:00:29,958 --> 02:00:30,875
the how to protect the ocean

1332
02:00:30,875 --> 02:00:32,333
podcast. I'm your host Andrew.

1333
02:00:32,375 --> 02:00:34,125
Have a great day. We'll talk to you next

1334
02:00:34,125 --> 02:00:35,291
time and happy conservation.