Animals Affected by Climate Change: How Seabirds Reveal the Hidden Impacts of Warming Oceans

1
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,916
Most of us see seagulls on the beach

2
01:00:01,916 --> 01:00:03,208
fighting over fries and think,

3
01:00:03,416 --> 01:00:05,541
"Ah, they're just noisy trash birds."

4
01:00:05,833 --> 01:00:07,291
But what if I told you those same

5
01:00:07,291 --> 01:00:09,916
seabirds are warning us about the entire

6
01:00:09,916 --> 01:00:11,083
health of the ocean?

7
01:00:11,500 --> 01:00:13,000
In a new study, scientists have

8
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,916
discovered that these seabirds aren't

9
01:00:14,916 --> 01:00:16,708
just the victims of climate change,

10
01:00:16,708 --> 01:00:18,583
they're the messengers, and their story

11
01:00:18,583 --> 01:00:19,916
reveals how fragile

12
01:00:19,916 --> 01:00:21,625
marine ecosystems really are.

13
01:00:21,625 --> 01:00:22,750
We're going to find out more about this

14
01:00:22,750 --> 01:00:24,291
study on this episode of the How to

15
01:00:24,291 --> 01:00:25,083
Protect the Ocean podcast.

16
01:00:25,833 --> 01:00:26,583
Let's start the show.

17
01:00:33,333 --> 01:00:34,416
Hey everybody, welcome back to another

18
01:00:34,416 --> 01:00:35,625
exciting episode of the How

19
01:00:35,625 --> 01:00:36,458
to Protect the Ocean podcast.

20
01:00:36,791 --> 01:00:38,333
I'm your host Andrew Lewin, and this is

21
01:00:38,333 --> 01:00:39,458
the podcast where you find out what's

22
01:00:39,458 --> 01:00:40,166
happening with the ocean,

23
01:00:40,166 --> 01:00:41,958
how you can speak up for the ocean, and

24
01:00:41,958 --> 01:00:43,500
what you can do to live for a better

25
01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:45,458
ocean by taking action.

26
01:00:45,708 --> 01:00:47,250
On today's episode, I've got

27
01:00:47,250 --> 01:00:49,166
such a cool episode for you.

28
01:00:49,166 --> 01:00:50,500
We're going to be talking about seabirds

29
01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:52,500
and a new study that's entitled,

30
01:00:52,833 --> 01:00:55,208
"Ecosystems Mediate Climate Impacts on

31
01:00:55,208 --> 01:00:56,916
Northern Hemisphere Seabirds."

32
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:58,875
That's a lot to take in, I know.

33
01:00:59,166 --> 01:01:02,041
But I've got Dr. Helen Kline, who's here

34
01:01:02,041 --> 01:01:04,708
today to break us all down for us and

35
01:01:04,708 --> 01:01:06,125
just kind of tell us where

36
01:01:06,125 --> 01:01:08,166
seabirds are telling us a story.

37
01:01:08,166 --> 01:01:09,375
A story of suffering.

38
01:01:09,625 --> 01:01:11,166
A story that's saying, "Hey, you know

39
01:01:11,166 --> 01:01:13,375
what? This ecosystem isn't right."

40
01:01:13,666 --> 01:01:15,041
When I was growing up in Ontario,

41
01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:18,000
seabirds weren't exactly on my radar.

42
01:01:18,166 --> 01:01:19,958
I'd see seagulls every once in a while,

43
01:01:19,958 --> 01:01:21,541
and they would be eating trash on the

44
01:01:21,541 --> 01:01:23,000
ground, whatever's in the trash can,

45
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,333
or sometimes it would take fries right

46
01:01:25,333 --> 01:01:26,375
out of kids' hands,

47
01:01:26,375 --> 01:01:27,416
depending on where they are.

48
01:01:27,625 --> 01:01:29,125
They were cunning, they were

49
01:01:29,125 --> 01:01:30,666
smart, and they were hungry.

50
01:01:30,916 --> 01:01:32,500
But then I went out to the west coast,

51
01:01:32,916 --> 01:01:36,041
and I saw these seagulls, same type of

52
01:01:36,041 --> 01:01:37,458
species it looked like,

53
01:01:37,458 --> 01:01:39,500
and these skulls are just massive.

54
01:01:39,833 --> 01:01:41,666
They're big, and they're white, and

55
01:01:41,666 --> 01:01:42,958
they're beautiful, and

56
01:01:42,958 --> 01:01:44,625
it's powerful at that.

57
01:01:44,958 --> 01:01:46,583
It's nothing like the ones I see picking

58
01:01:46,583 --> 01:01:48,208
up trash inside Ontario,

59
01:01:48,500 --> 01:01:50,000
and that moment stuck with me.

60
01:01:50,458 --> 01:01:52,041
It reminded me of how

61
01:01:52,041 --> 01:01:54,083
much this ocean has a story.

62
01:01:54,083 --> 01:01:56,208
We miss this story because we're only

63
01:01:56,208 --> 01:01:57,375
seeing the small

64
01:01:57,375 --> 01:01:59,000
human-alerted part of it.

65
01:01:59,333 --> 01:02:01,833
So when my friend Annette sent me a paper

66
01:02:01,833 --> 01:02:04,041
about seabirds and their

67
01:02:04,041 --> 01:02:05,458
suffering with climate change,

68
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:08,083
and how the prey that's in the ocean that

69
01:02:08,083 --> 01:02:09,125
they feed on is really

70
01:02:09,125 --> 01:02:10,458
important to be diverse,

71
01:02:10,708 --> 01:02:13,333
is really the important part of this and

72
01:02:13,333 --> 01:02:15,083
how we can actually keep seabirds,

73
01:02:15,083 --> 01:02:16,458
which are like the canary in the coal

74
01:02:16,458 --> 01:02:17,958
mine literally telling us

75
01:02:17,958 --> 01:02:19,000
how our ocean health is,

76
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:20,291
maintaining that ocean health.

77
01:02:20,625 --> 01:02:21,791
I was pretty excited to

78
01:02:21,791 --> 01:02:23,541
interview Helen Kaelene.

79
01:02:23,916 --> 01:02:25,958
This interview was really, really

80
01:02:25,958 --> 01:02:28,375
memorable to me because I realized how

81
01:02:28,375 --> 01:02:29,750
important it is to talk

82
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:31,208
about all parts of the ocean

83
01:02:31,208 --> 01:02:33,458
and how the connection between birds that

84
01:02:33,458 --> 01:02:35,500
are flying high in the sky and the ocean

85
01:02:35,500 --> 01:02:36,958
is so, so important.

86
01:02:37,208 --> 01:02:38,916
So we're going to find out today not only

87
01:02:38,916 --> 01:02:41,333
how birds are affected by climate change,

88
01:02:41,333 --> 01:02:43,000
how their prey is affected by climate

89
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,125
change, and how diversity really helps

90
01:02:45,125 --> 01:02:46,000
stabilize these predators,

91
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,541
these top predators, which is basically

92
01:02:48,541 --> 01:02:50,875
like almost apex predators that are

93
01:02:50,875 --> 01:02:51,875
really, really important.

94
01:02:52,125 --> 01:02:53,750
So we're going to find out all of that.

95
01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:54,458
I've got resources

96
01:02:54,458 --> 01:02:56,291
for you in this episode.

97
01:02:56,500 --> 01:02:57,958
We're going to talk to Helen Kaelene.

98
01:02:58,291 --> 01:03:00,041
Here is my interview with Helen. Enjoy.

99
01:03:00,250 --> 01:03:01,458
And I will talk to you after.

100
01:03:01,958 --> 01:03:03,333
Hey, Helen, welcome to the How

101
01:03:03,333 --> 01:03:04,291
to Protect the Ocean podcast.

102
01:03:04,875 --> 01:03:06,458
Are you ready to talk about

103
01:03:06,458 --> 01:03:08,541
seabirds? I'm ready. Let's go.

104
01:03:09,041 --> 01:03:11,500
All right. I'm excited because, as I

105
01:03:11,500 --> 01:03:12,083
mentioned before,

106
01:03:12,083 --> 01:03:13,000
before we start recording,

107
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,458
I don't get to talk about seabirds a lot.

108
01:03:15,625 --> 01:03:16,375
One, because I'm not

109
01:03:16,375 --> 01:03:17,125
an expert in seabirds.

110
01:03:17,500 --> 01:03:19,666
I don't really know a lot about seabirds.

111
01:03:19,666 --> 01:03:21,416
And so I'm super excited when this paper

112
01:03:21,416 --> 01:03:23,125
kind of came across my email.

113
01:03:23,916 --> 01:03:25,583
A friend of ours, Annette, she kind of

114
01:03:25,583 --> 01:03:27,250
like was like, Hey, you know what? I've

115
01:03:27,250 --> 01:03:29,166
got a great paper for you to discuss on

116
01:03:29,166 --> 01:03:29,958
how to protect the ocean.

117
01:03:29,958 --> 01:03:32,250
I was like, Yes, let's do it. And then we

118
01:03:32,250 --> 01:03:35,125
got introduced and we kind of got to know

119
01:03:35,125 --> 01:03:35,958
each other through this.

120
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,166
And I'm super excited to hear about a

121
01:03:38,166 --> 01:03:40,083
recent paper that you published with some

122
01:03:40,083 --> 01:03:42,416
colleagues called Ecosystems Mediate

123
01:03:42,416 --> 01:03:43,666
Climate Impact on

124
01:03:43,666 --> 01:03:45,125
Northern Hemisphere Seabirds.

125
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:47,041
This is something I feel like is really

126
01:03:47,041 --> 01:03:48,500
important as climate change is kind of

127
01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:51,458
hitting everything that is around us.

128
01:03:51,833 --> 01:03:53,666
We don't we talk a lot about fish moving

129
01:03:53,666 --> 01:03:56,958
north and distribution shifting, but

130
01:03:56,958 --> 01:03:58,458
we're not talking a lot about how that's

131
01:03:58,458 --> 01:04:00,750
affecting seabirds, especially with

132
01:04:00,750 --> 01:04:02,000
warming oceans and so forth.

133
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:03,750
So I'm looking forward to talking all

134
01:04:03,750 --> 01:04:06,166
about this. But before we do, let's get

135
01:04:06,166 --> 01:04:07,625
to know you a little bit more.

136
01:04:07,625 --> 01:04:08,750
Why don't you tell us a little bit of who

137
01:04:08,750 --> 01:04:09,958
you are and what you do.

138
01:04:11,250 --> 01:04:14,083
Yeah. So thanks so much for having me on

139
01:04:14,083 --> 01:04:14,958
the podcast. It's

140
01:04:14,958 --> 01:04:16,333
really exciting to be here.

141
01:04:17,708 --> 01:04:18,875
Yeah. As you said, my name is Helen

142
01:04:18,875 --> 01:04:21,166
Killeen. I currently am working with the

143
01:04:21,166 --> 01:04:22,416
California Department of Fish and

144
01:04:22,416 --> 01:04:24,875
Wildlife as a science policy

145
01:04:24,875 --> 01:04:26,000
specialist on fisheries work.

146
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,791
But my this paper was one of the products

147
01:04:30,791 --> 01:04:32,791
out of my postdoc, which I did at the

148
01:04:32,791 --> 01:04:35,416
Farallon Institute and Farallon Institute

149
01:04:35,416 --> 01:04:38,291
is a small nonprofit that does all kinds

150
01:04:38,291 --> 01:04:41,916
of really, really cool ecosystem scale

151
01:04:41,916 --> 01:04:45,375
research with a particular focus on

152
01:04:45,375 --> 01:04:47,000
marine predators like seabirds.

153
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,041
We have a long history of working with

154
01:04:49,041 --> 01:04:51,958
seabirds and trying to understand how

155
01:04:51,958 --> 01:04:55,250
climate and fishing and other human

156
01:04:55,250 --> 01:04:57,500
activities can impact marine ecosystems

157
01:04:57,500 --> 01:04:59,500
broadly and then how to how to conserve

158
01:04:59,500 --> 01:05:02,791
or how to respond to those impacts.

159
01:05:03,666 --> 01:05:06,750
Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah,

160
01:05:06,750 --> 01:05:08,125
it's it's really neat work.

161
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,958
So before that, I did my PhD at UC Davis

162
01:05:12,958 --> 01:05:15,041
completed my PhD in

163
01:05:15,041 --> 01:05:16,791
marine ecology in 2022.

164
01:05:18,708 --> 01:05:20,375
And before that, I was actually doing

165
01:05:20,375 --> 01:05:21,500
something totally different. I was

166
01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:23,791
working as a science teacher and then had

167
01:05:23,791 --> 01:05:28,416
a brief stint as a at a pizza shop. So

168
01:05:28,416 --> 01:05:29,708
I've done a lot of different things.

169
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:32,208
But yeah, that's yeah, it's been a

170
01:05:32,208 --> 01:05:36,000
winding path. But I've been really lucky

171
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:37,791
to find myself in a super

172
01:05:37,791 --> 01:05:39,125
fulfilling and exciting career.

173
01:05:39,750 --> 01:05:41,500
That's amazing. And I got to dive a

174
01:05:41,500 --> 01:05:43,291
little deeper into this because we don't

175
01:05:43,291 --> 01:05:46,000
get a lot of teachers turned scientists

176
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,000
or science teachers turn even more

177
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:49,875
science and getting into into research.

178
01:05:51,416 --> 01:05:53,958
Did you always have a love for birds

179
01:05:53,958 --> 01:05:55,750
because usually people who study birds

180
01:05:55,750 --> 01:05:58,083
are pretty into birds like their birders

181
01:05:58,083 --> 01:05:59,041
that like they go out

182
01:05:59,041 --> 01:06:00,750
hiking and looking for birds.

183
01:06:00,750 --> 01:06:02,083
They've got this little blood little

184
01:06:02,083 --> 01:06:03,416
black book or a little book where they

185
01:06:03,416 --> 01:06:05,291
write down all the birds and where they

186
01:06:05,291 --> 01:06:07,458
were and stuff like that. Were you always

187
01:06:07,458 --> 01:06:08,333
you always have an interest

188
01:06:08,333 --> 01:06:10,000
in in birds in particular?

189
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:17,000
I wish that I could say yes. I know I I

190
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,333
was not one of those people. I was not

191
01:06:19,333 --> 01:06:21,791
one of those like bird fanatics. But I

192
01:06:21,791 --> 01:06:23,958
have so many friends who are bird

193
01:06:23,958 --> 01:06:25,208
fanatics and I really,

194
01:06:25,208 --> 01:06:26,541
really sympathize with them.

195
01:06:26,791 --> 01:06:29,250
Birds are so cool. They're like these,

196
01:06:29,250 --> 01:06:32,500
you know, amazing, unique gems that just

197
01:06:32,500 --> 01:06:33,541
kind of like fly into

198
01:06:33,541 --> 01:06:34,750
your life and then fly out.

199
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,208
Yeah, so I can I can really understand

200
01:06:38,208 --> 01:06:40,750
the attraction to birds. But no, I was

201
01:06:40,750 --> 01:06:43,250
not like a big bird fanatics before. I

202
01:06:43,250 --> 01:06:44,916
like that. I like that because, you know,

203
01:06:44,916 --> 01:06:45,875
not everybody has to be a

204
01:06:45,875 --> 01:06:47,083
bird or just a study bird.

205
01:06:47,083 --> 01:06:48,375
So you can be interested in it, but you

206
01:06:48,375 --> 01:06:50,041
don't you may have other other hobbies

207
01:06:50,041 --> 01:06:51,708
and stuff like that, which I like. I

208
01:06:51,708 --> 01:06:53,333
think that's I think that's wonderful.

209
01:06:53,875 --> 01:06:55,083
Now you you said you

210
01:06:55,083 --> 01:06:55,958
were a science teacher.

211
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,666
Was that when you were younger, was that

212
01:06:58,666 --> 01:07:00,416
what you wanted to do growing up? Like I

213
01:07:00,416 --> 01:07:01,916
want to be a teacher like this is what I

214
01:07:01,916 --> 01:07:06,000
want to do. Yeah. So coming out of

215
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:10,375
college, I was I was feeling torn between

216
01:07:10,375 --> 01:07:12,875
several different career paths and and

217
01:07:12,875 --> 01:07:15,666
teaching is something I've always really

218
01:07:15,666 --> 01:07:19,125
cared about and thought about deeply and

219
01:07:19,125 --> 01:07:20,000
really been interested in.

220
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:22,250
And so I became a high school teacher out

221
01:07:22,250 --> 01:07:25,000
of college chemistry, physics and

222
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:28,333
biology. Why high school? Why high

223
01:07:28,333 --> 01:07:32,333
school? I think because I like the

224
01:07:32,333 --> 01:07:33,000
science at that level.

225
01:07:33,041 --> 01:07:36,125
Oh, okay. So much that you can like do

226
01:07:36,125 --> 01:07:37,791
and say and I also really like that age

227
01:07:37,791 --> 01:07:40,041
group. It's it's really fun to work with.

228
01:07:40,500 --> 01:07:41,875
I love that. My daughter wants to become

229
01:07:41,875 --> 01:07:43,791
a teacher. She's hitting more towards the

230
01:07:43,791 --> 01:07:45,583
primary grades. And I'm just like, we

231
01:07:45,583 --> 01:07:47,958
need good high school, like solid high

232
01:07:47,958 --> 01:07:50,083
school teachers like, you know, like, you

233
01:07:50,083 --> 01:07:51,875
know, and I think that's like that that

234
01:07:51,875 --> 01:07:54,125
new generation that's coming up. You see

235
01:07:54,125 --> 01:07:55,625
a lot of them wanting to go elementary

236
01:07:55,625 --> 01:07:57,000
and I'm like, oh, you got to go high

237
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:58,208
school. Like, you know, I

238
01:07:58,208 --> 01:07:59,000
always like to see that.

239
01:07:59,541 --> 01:08:01,041
I mean, across the board, I think like

240
01:08:01,041 --> 01:08:02,750
teachers are some of the most impactful

241
01:08:02,750 --> 01:08:06,208
people. Oh, yeah. Period. So yeah, yeah.

242
01:08:06,208 --> 01:08:07,958
One of the most difficult professions, I

243
01:08:07,958 --> 01:08:09,500
think to do on a regular, I know

244
01:08:09,500 --> 01:08:10,875
everybody's like, oh, you get the summers

245
01:08:10,875 --> 01:08:12,458
off and you get this and you get that.

246
01:08:12,458 --> 01:08:14,958
But I'm like, I've seen classrooms. I've

247
01:08:14,958 --> 01:08:17,666
done, you know, I've done presentations

248
01:08:17,666 --> 01:08:20,125
in classrooms before. And it's I have a

249
01:08:20,125 --> 01:08:22,833
new or I've always had a respect for what

250
01:08:22,833 --> 01:08:25,041
teachers have to put up with. And of

251
01:08:25,041 --> 01:08:26,625
course, class size is getting bigger and

252
01:08:26,625 --> 01:08:27,833
bigger. And that becomes

253
01:08:27,833 --> 01:08:28,000
a like, I can't do that.

254
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:31,208
I can't even say how much of a challenge

255
01:08:31,208 --> 01:08:32,833
more of a challenge that is as class

256
01:08:32,833 --> 01:08:35,000
sizes get bigger and so forth. But the

257
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,583
impact that they have, they're there for

258
01:08:37,583 --> 01:08:39,375
what, six, seven hours a day, maybe eight

259
01:08:39,375 --> 01:08:41,541
hours a day. But like, at least in front

260
01:08:41,541 --> 01:08:43,416
of kids for hours and hours on end,

261
01:08:43,875 --> 01:08:46,083
impacting everything they learn and how

262
01:08:46,083 --> 01:08:48,541
they like see life and things like that.

263
01:08:48,541 --> 01:08:50,000
So I just think that's awesome.

264
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,166
What was your favorite subject to teach?

265
01:08:52,583 --> 01:08:55,125
Was it chemistry or biology or physics or

266
01:08:55,125 --> 01:08:56,500
what did you get to teach

267
01:08:56,500 --> 01:08:57,791
that was like the most memorable?

268
01:08:59,375 --> 01:09:03,875
I think we probably had the most fun in

269
01:09:03,875 --> 01:09:07,833
physics because we just did a lot of like

270
01:09:07,833 --> 01:09:11,750
crazy good stuff and the students were

271
01:09:11,750 --> 01:09:13,166
able to I taught mostly

272
01:09:13,166 --> 01:09:14,625
juniors and seniors. Okay.

273
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:17,916
And they were able to just do a lot of

274
01:09:17,916 --> 01:09:19,791
explorations themselves. And that was

275
01:09:19,791 --> 01:09:21,125
really fun to be part of. But I like

276
01:09:21,125 --> 01:09:23,750
teaching all the classes. That's and I've

277
01:09:23,750 --> 01:09:25,750
taught some some college level courses

278
01:09:25,750 --> 01:09:27,333
since then. And it continues to be

279
01:09:27,333 --> 01:09:28,416
something that I care a lot about.

280
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:33,000
That's great. Now, you pivoted going more

281
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:36,583
towards research. What brought that on to

282
01:09:36,583 --> 01:09:39,166
make that that's a big that's a big thing

283
01:09:39,166 --> 01:09:40,958
like like teachers. I don't know what I

284
01:09:40,958 --> 01:09:42,791
live in Canada. So I don't know what

285
01:09:42,791 --> 01:09:43,625
teachers like what

286
01:09:43,625 --> 01:09:44,000
the profession is like.

287
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,958
In the US but but in Canada that you're

288
01:09:47,958 --> 01:09:50,375
like you get to be a teacher. You're on a

289
01:09:50,375 --> 01:09:53,208
path to be set. You know pension all that

290
01:09:53,208 --> 01:09:56,000
kind of stuff is there. It is a pretty

291
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,291
good like solid career and profession to

292
01:09:59,291 --> 01:10:01,000
be with as you retire. You can retire

293
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:02,875
early and so forth. Just like a

294
01:10:02,875 --> 01:10:06,000
government official. But you know what

295
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,250
made you pivot to go into more I guess

296
01:10:09,250 --> 01:10:11,000
research based from from being a teacher.

297
01:10:11,083 --> 01:10:16,125
Yeah. So I was sort of saying that I felt

298
01:10:16,125 --> 01:10:18,083
really torn about different career paths

299
01:10:18,083 --> 01:10:20,750
coming out of college. And you know,

300
01:10:21,041 --> 01:10:22,666
there was part of me that really wanted

301
01:10:22,666 --> 01:10:26,833
to work in conservation and environmental

302
01:10:26,833 --> 01:10:30,791
research and understanding nature and

303
01:10:30,791 --> 01:10:31,000
working to protect nature.

304
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:34,458
It was like something that I also cared

305
01:10:34,458 --> 01:10:36,416
deeply about and working to working to

306
01:10:36,416 --> 01:10:37,958
protect nature in a way that benefited

307
01:10:37,958 --> 01:10:44,000
society. Right. So I think after after a

308
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:45,166
while I was like I want to go back to

309
01:10:45,166 --> 01:10:47,500
graduate school and see where that goes.

310
01:10:47,958 --> 01:10:49,750
And I've been lucky enough that

311
01:10:49,750 --> 01:10:51,875
throughout graduate school and after I've

312
01:10:51,875 --> 01:10:53,458
always found ways to kind of still

313
01:10:53,458 --> 01:10:54,458
incorporate teaching

314
01:10:54,458 --> 01:10:56,416
into how I spent my day.

315
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:58,708
I can imagine I can only imagine it never

316
01:10:58,708 --> 01:11:00,291
really gets out of you once you get that

317
01:11:00,291 --> 01:11:03,083
teaching in you. But you're still making

318
01:11:03,083 --> 01:11:05,000
a big change in career going from

319
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,000
something that's paying you you know like

320
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,375
a pretty good salary to graduate work

321
01:11:09,375 --> 01:11:12,000
which is quite the difference. That's a

322
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:13,583
big decision to make. Were you ever torn

323
01:11:13,583 --> 01:11:15,791
in terms of like do I do it now? Like how

324
01:11:15,791 --> 01:11:17,500
long were you teaching before you did it

325
01:11:17,500 --> 01:11:20,000
and was that a difficult decision to go

326
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:21,000
back to graduate school?

327
01:11:22,083 --> 01:11:23,916
That's a really good question. Okay, so

328
01:11:23,916 --> 01:11:26,666
cut. So I taught high school for two

329
01:11:26,666 --> 01:11:28,791
years, which I don't think was long

330
01:11:28,791 --> 01:11:30,458
enough for me to really understand how

331
01:11:30,458 --> 01:11:31,625
nice it is to have like

332
01:11:31,625 --> 01:11:34,500
a really stable salary.

333
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:36,375
Right. Right.

334
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:40,875
But so I don't I don't think that

335
01:11:40,875 --> 01:11:42,916
featured too much in the decision making

336
01:11:42,916 --> 01:11:46,125
for me. One thing that I have tried to

337
01:11:46,125 --> 01:11:48,750
tell students that I've mentored a lot is

338
01:11:48,750 --> 01:11:51,583
is that in the sciences, we're really

339
01:11:51,583 --> 01:11:53,958
lucky in graduate school and that most of

340
01:11:53,958 --> 01:11:56,125
the graduate or many graduate programs

341
01:11:56,125 --> 01:11:58,541
you can be you can get paid to do them or

342
01:11:58,541 --> 01:11:59,750
get them at least partially

343
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:03,416
paid for. And I was lucky enough to find

344
01:12:03,416 --> 01:12:06,083
a PhD that you know paid my salary, paid

345
01:12:06,083 --> 01:12:09,500
my tuition, paid my health insurance. So

346
01:12:09,500 --> 01:12:11,375
it made it possible. Yeah, yeah, huge.

347
01:12:12,041 --> 01:12:14,250
Yeah. And then when you started to apply

348
01:12:14,250 --> 01:12:17,916
to grad school, did you have an idea of

349
01:12:17,916 --> 01:12:21,708
what type of like topic you were going?

350
01:12:21,708 --> 01:12:24,000
Did you go right into a PhD? Yeah, I went

351
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:25,208
straight into a PhD. I

352
01:12:25,208 --> 01:12:26,375
did not do a Masters.

353
01:12:27,291 --> 01:12:29,208
Yeah, and then so like doing that, it's

354
01:12:29,208 --> 01:12:31,041
it's you know, just finding your topic

355
01:12:31,041 --> 01:12:33,958
and finding like an interest. What made

356
01:12:33,958 --> 01:12:36,500
you was it? It was on seabirds. So what

357
01:12:36,500 --> 01:12:38,916
made you go or was it on? Sorry, was it

358
01:12:38,916 --> 01:12:41,083
on seabirds? Was it on seabirds? Was it

359
01:12:41,083 --> 01:12:42,625
on seabirds? Or was it like another

360
01:12:42,625 --> 01:12:45,458
marine topic? No, it was different. Yeah,

361
01:12:45,625 --> 01:12:49,500
it was, you know, like seabirds are these

362
01:12:49,500 --> 01:12:50,416
like big, like

363
01:12:50,416 --> 01:12:52,541
beautiful, charismatic creatures.

364
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:56,208
My PhD, my doctoral research was on

365
01:12:56,208 --> 01:13:00,125
larval fishes and blinkton. Yeah, so it

366
01:13:00,125 --> 01:13:03,250
was like, you know, zoom way down to the

367
01:13:03,250 --> 01:13:05,166
side of like a hangnail or something like

368
01:13:05,166 --> 01:13:07,791
that. I was studying those organisms. So

369
01:13:07,791 --> 01:13:10,625
what made you like go towards that route?

370
01:13:11,625 --> 01:13:15,916
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so when I, you know, I

371
01:13:15,916 --> 01:13:18,791
was broadly interested in doing some

372
01:13:18,791 --> 01:13:21,708
related to the environment, specific more

373
01:13:21,708 --> 01:13:23,750
specifically than that, I'd been really

374
01:13:23,750 --> 01:13:26,416
captured by some of the coursework I did

375
01:13:26,416 --> 01:13:30,583
and some of the internships that I did in

376
01:13:30,583 --> 01:13:32,875
college to focus on like ocean issues.

377
01:13:33,666 --> 01:13:36,125
And one when I was in college, one of the

378
01:13:36,125 --> 01:13:38,583
like big topics was marine spatial

379
01:13:38,583 --> 01:13:40,000
planning. This was in the during the Obama administration.

380
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:44,083
Yes, yes. Marine spatial planning was

381
01:13:44,083 --> 01:13:46,291
this huge deal. And one of the big

382
01:13:46,291 --> 01:13:47,916
questions involved in marine spatial

383
01:13:47,916 --> 01:13:49,875
planning was, you know, how do you sort

384
01:13:49,875 --> 01:13:52,500
of optimize different human use of the

385
01:13:52,500 --> 01:13:55,541
oceans spatially so that you get these,

386
01:13:55,541 --> 01:13:58,083
you know, environmental and ecosystem

387
01:13:58,083 --> 01:14:02,375
benefits. One of them being that, you

388
01:14:02,375 --> 01:14:04,458
know, in California, for instance, we've

389
01:14:04,458 --> 01:14:06,625
got this network of marine protected

390
01:14:06,625 --> 01:14:08,000
areas that spans the whole state.

391
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:11,541
This place we've set aside these places

392
01:14:11,541 --> 01:14:13,625
as being you, you know, you can't fish

393
01:14:13,625 --> 01:14:14,875
here, you can't do anything here. And

394
01:14:14,875 --> 01:14:16,458
some places you can do a little bit of

395
01:14:16,458 --> 01:14:18,500
fishing, but not commercial fishing. They

396
01:14:18,500 --> 01:14:19,208
have different sort of

397
01:14:19,208 --> 01:14:20,000
rules associated with them.

398
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:23,833
But when the when that spatial plan was

399
01:14:23,833 --> 01:14:25,333
set up, one of the things that they took

400
01:14:25,333 --> 01:14:28,458
into consideration was where do we put

401
01:14:28,458 --> 01:14:32,500
these places so that the larvae that are

402
01:14:32,500 --> 01:14:35,708
produced by the populations of animals

403
01:14:35,708 --> 01:14:37,541
that live within these protected areas

404
01:14:37,541 --> 01:14:40,041
make connections between the protected

405
01:14:40,041 --> 01:14:42,916
areas and create this network effect of

406
01:14:42,916 --> 01:14:46,000
organisms moving between protected areas

407
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:47,041
and from protected

408
01:14:47,041 --> 01:14:48,000
areas into fishable areas.

409
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,583
So that was one of the big questions is

410
01:14:51,583 --> 01:14:53,416
how do you sort of optimally

411
01:14:53,416 --> 01:14:55,000
do marine spatial planning?

412
01:14:56,291 --> 01:14:58,125
Can I say something? Just to interrupt.

413
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:02,750
So I did a Masters on marine conservation

414
01:15:02,750 --> 01:15:06,666
up in Nova Scotia. And one of the things

415
01:15:06,666 --> 01:15:08,916
was my Masters is more of like the GIS

416
01:15:08,916 --> 01:15:12,791
aspect like mapping out, not demersal

417
01:15:12,791 --> 01:15:13,583
fish, there was a

418
01:15:13,583 --> 01:15:14,000
biologist who demersal fish.

419
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:18,000
But also I did macro invertebrates crabs,

420
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:21,958
fish, shrimps, crab shrimps, lobster. And

421
01:15:21,958 --> 01:15:24,708
we were looking at like, what are the

422
01:15:24,708 --> 01:15:26,666
representative areas? Like what kind of

423
01:15:26,666 --> 01:15:28,291
assemblages are there? And so I did that.

424
01:15:28,291 --> 01:15:31,500
But my PhD was going to be if I did it

425
01:15:31,500 --> 01:15:32,666
was going to be on connectivity.

426
01:15:33,125 --> 01:15:36,500
So it was awesome. Yeah, for the for the

427
01:15:36,500 --> 01:15:39,166
Scotian shelf and Newfoundland. So, so

428
01:15:39,166 --> 01:15:41,041
cool. Yeah, yeah, I never ended up

429
01:15:41,041 --> 01:15:43,000
happening. But but that was that was on

430
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:44,458
that was the direction. Yeah.

431
01:15:44,458 --> 01:15:46,958
Yeah. So that's that's exactly what I'm

432
01:15:46,958 --> 01:15:48,750
trying to describe here is basically like

433
01:15:48,750 --> 01:15:51,208
how does how does connectivity among

434
01:15:51,208 --> 01:15:53,791
spatial spatial plan

435
01:15:53,791 --> 01:15:55,041
work and how do you do that?

436
01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:00,666
So I was lucky enough to get connected to

437
01:16:00,666 --> 01:16:03,500
my graduate advisor, Stephen Morgan, who

438
01:16:03,500 --> 01:16:04,791
was doing exactly that kind

439
01:16:04,791 --> 01:16:06,166
of research that you gave us.

440
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:11,625
And, yeah, I worked with him to do some

441
01:16:11,625 --> 01:16:14,583
collections across the shelf of larval

442
01:16:14,583 --> 01:16:16,750
fishes at a whole bunch of different

443
01:16:16,750 --> 01:16:20,458
depths and identify all of them and try

444
01:16:20,458 --> 01:16:22,500
to infer what what kind of behaviors they

445
01:16:22,500 --> 01:16:24,916
might be using to to

446
01:16:24,916 --> 01:16:26,541
move during their larval,

447
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,333
during throughout their level stage.

448
01:16:29,916 --> 01:16:31,125
That's awesome. So you got to do field,

449
01:16:31,125 --> 01:16:33,250
you got to do laboratory work, you know,

450
01:16:33,250 --> 01:16:34,625
eyes in a microscope quite a bit, I

451
01:16:34,625 --> 01:16:36,958
assume. And then you got to do like the

452
01:16:36,958 --> 01:16:38,875
stat statistical analysis. That's a

453
01:16:38,875 --> 01:16:42,625
complete kind of PhD that love that. I

454
01:16:42,625 --> 01:16:43,666
love that. Yeah, I filled

455
01:16:43,666 --> 01:16:45,000
out the whole bingo card.

456
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:47,166
Yeah, well, it's true. Not a lot of

457
01:16:47,166 --> 01:16:49,041
people did. Like when I did mine, I had

458
01:16:49,041 --> 01:16:51,708
like a database of multi year kind of

459
01:16:51,708 --> 01:16:53,250
data. So you didn't really have to do,

460
01:16:53,500 --> 01:16:55,625
you know, like the go out in the field. I

461
01:16:55,625 --> 01:16:56,916
had a lot of field experience before

462
01:16:56,916 --> 01:16:59,500
that. But but that. Yeah. So that's cool.

463
01:16:59,500 --> 01:17:01,458
You got to do. You got to do it all. I

464
01:17:01,458 --> 01:17:02,708
love that that aspect.

465
01:17:03,416 --> 01:17:05,250
And now you did you went for your PhD.

466
01:17:05,958 --> 01:17:08,958
Now some people do multiple postdocs. Did

467
01:17:08,958 --> 01:17:10,500
you do multiple or did you do one like

468
01:17:10,500 --> 01:17:12,208
where this paper came out? Like, yeah,

469
01:17:12,208 --> 01:17:16,708
this I did one postdoc. And then and then

470
01:17:16,708 --> 01:17:19,375
moved recently earlier this year into my

471
01:17:19,375 --> 01:17:20,541
new position with the Department of Fish

472
01:17:20,541 --> 01:17:22,833
and Wildlife, which is amazing. We'll

473
01:17:22,833 --> 01:17:24,916
talk about that. Just a second. That's

474
01:17:24,916 --> 01:17:27,875
awesome. Now the paper that you did was

475
01:17:27,875 --> 01:17:29,833
this were there like when you did the

476
01:17:29,833 --> 01:17:30,916
research that she did

477
01:17:30,916 --> 01:17:32,000
during your postdoc was this.

478
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,416
One of the only papers or were there

479
01:17:34,416 --> 01:17:36,375
other papers that came out associated

480
01:17:36,375 --> 01:17:40,625
with this? Yeah, so there are multiple

481
01:17:40,625 --> 01:17:43,875
papers that came out of this study, which

482
01:17:43,875 --> 01:17:46,500
is a grant funded by the National Science

483
01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:48,750
Foundation to look to try to better

484
01:17:48,750 --> 01:17:52,000
understand seabirds broadly across all

485
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:53,000
these different breeding sites around the world. Yeah.

486
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:57,958
We have multiple papers. So this is the

487
01:17:57,958 --> 01:18:00,166
first paper of several that will come out

488
01:18:00,166 --> 01:18:03,041
on all those data sets. So it's like the

489
01:18:03,041 --> 01:18:05,250
introduction of what we're learning here.

490
01:18:05,833 --> 01:18:09,083
Now, I have to ask. And this might sound

491
01:18:09,083 --> 01:18:10,666
like an abrupt question. I don't mean to

492
01:18:10,666 --> 01:18:13,000
make a sound like that. Why should we

493
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:14,500
care about seabirds? You know,

494
01:18:14,500 --> 01:18:15,833
everybody's always like, you know,

495
01:18:16,125 --> 01:18:18,291
everybody loves whales. Some people like

496
01:18:18,291 --> 01:18:19,625
birds. Some people don't. There's a

497
01:18:19,625 --> 01:18:20,583
there's a lot of there are a lot of

498
01:18:20,583 --> 01:18:22,000
people who don't like birds out there. Tell them what they're doing.

499
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,083
There tell me why from from an ecosystem

500
01:18:25,083 --> 01:18:27,625
perspective, why people who are listening

501
01:18:27,625 --> 01:18:29,000
to this podcast scientists, non

502
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:31,125
scientists, whoever should care about

503
01:18:31,125 --> 01:18:36,000
seabirds. Yeah, okay. Well, I'll give you

504
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:37,875
three reasons to care about seabirds.

505
01:18:38,083 --> 01:18:43,291
Love it. So first of all, you know, I

506
01:18:43,291 --> 01:18:45,583
think most of our collective experience

507
01:18:45,583 --> 01:18:47,208
of seabirds certainly I grew up in

508
01:18:47,208 --> 01:18:49,291
Colorado and that's not by the coast at

509
01:18:49,291 --> 01:18:51,000
all. So my experience of seabirds was very limited.

510
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,541
So my life. But we think about seabirds

511
01:18:55,541 --> 01:18:57,500
as basically being like seagulls on the

512
01:18:57,500 --> 01:18:59,541
beach trying to steal your sandwich or

513
01:18:59,541 --> 01:19:01,333
like rummaging through the dump or

514
01:19:01,333 --> 01:19:06,208
something like that. But even that little

515
01:19:06,208 --> 01:19:09,000
brief glimpse that we get of goals is a

516
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:12,000
really limited picture of their amazing

517
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,583
life history and their like the amazing

518
01:19:15,583 --> 01:19:17,000
ways that they spend their time and make their living in the world.

519
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:20,750
So first reason that people should really

520
01:19:20,750 --> 01:19:24,208
care about seabirds is that seabirds are

521
01:19:24,208 --> 01:19:26,750
amazingly diverse. They make their living

522
01:19:26,750 --> 01:19:29,875
on the oceans in ways that are incredibly

523
01:19:29,875 --> 01:19:32,083
challenging and awe inspiring. They

524
01:19:32,083 --> 01:19:35,083
conduct migrations over, you know, across

525
01:19:35,083 --> 01:19:40,208
hemispheres over huge expanses. They mark

526
01:19:40,208 --> 01:19:44,333
the seasons in many cultures. There are

527
01:19:44,333 --> 01:19:46,000
societies and indigenous cultures that have a lot of different cultures.

528
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:47,333
There are indigenous cultures that have

529
01:19:47,333 --> 01:19:51,500
lived off of seabirds seasonally. So

530
01:19:51,500 --> 01:19:53,708
there's a lot of amazing kind of just

531
01:19:53,708 --> 01:19:56,500
like awe inspiring reasons to be

532
01:19:56,500 --> 01:19:57,291
interested in seabirds.

533
01:19:58,125 --> 01:20:00,000
Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to

534
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,541
interrupt. I feel like you mentioned the

535
01:20:02,541 --> 01:20:04,708
gulls and now I live just outside Toronto

536
01:20:04,708 --> 01:20:07,083
and you see gulls who are like, you know,

537
01:20:07,083 --> 01:20:09,083
they're they're living off of like

538
01:20:09,083 --> 01:20:11,041
garbage, you know, they're scavenging for

539
01:20:11,041 --> 01:20:12,958
food and they're kind of small.

540
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:15,833
You know, some are gray and some like

541
01:20:15,833 --> 01:20:17,250
they don't look as nice and people are

542
01:20:17,250 --> 01:20:18,500
like all their garbage birds like around

543
01:20:18,500 --> 01:20:20,166
here. That's the law of times when you

544
01:20:20,166 --> 01:20:22,333
see and we see them so much, right? I

545
01:20:22,333 --> 01:20:24,125
recently went out to the west coast this

546
01:20:24,125 --> 01:20:31,000
past May to see a seagull that is from

547
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:32,750
the west coast that literally lives off

548
01:20:32,750 --> 01:20:34,375
the ocean and like the fish

549
01:20:34,375 --> 01:20:35,000
and the food off the ocean.

550
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:38,916
The size difference and the beauty is so

551
01:20:38,916 --> 01:20:40,625
different like the ones on the west coast

552
01:20:40,625 --> 01:20:42,041
and I've even been to the Arctic to and

553
01:20:42,041 --> 01:20:43,500
you see them in the Arctic and even on

554
01:20:43,500 --> 01:20:44,708
the east coast like anywhere near the

555
01:20:44,708 --> 01:20:45,708
ocean. They're big,

556
01:20:45,708 --> 01:20:47,458
they're cleaner, they're fuller.

557
01:20:48,375 --> 01:20:49,500
They're like the difference is like I

558
01:20:49,500 --> 01:20:51,000
don't even know I would love to see a

559
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:52,458
study of like what the weight differences

560
01:20:52,458 --> 01:20:53,833
and if it's different like different

561
01:20:53,833 --> 01:20:56,375
types of species, but it is night and day

562
01:20:56,375 --> 01:20:58,541
when you see that. So even seagulls that

563
01:20:58,541 --> 01:21:00,875
were very used to, we kind of consider

564
01:21:00,875 --> 01:21:01,375
them as like

565
01:21:01,375 --> 01:21:02,958
scavengers and garbage birds.

566
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:05,750
There are gorgeous along the coast. Yeah,

567
01:21:05,750 --> 01:21:07,416
it's a difference. You know what I mean?

568
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:10,166
It's really, it's always really exciting

569
01:21:10,166 --> 01:21:12,875
to me to see an animal in the environment

570
01:21:12,875 --> 01:21:17,000
that it was evolved to, you know, be in.

571
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:19,250
It's amazing to see that and that

572
01:21:19,250 --> 01:21:21,000
includes goals that we associate with.

573
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:24,833
Yeah, it's kind of like dirty gross pest

574
01:21:24,833 --> 01:21:28,041
behaviors, but yeah, but you know,

575
01:21:28,041 --> 01:21:30,208
thinking beyond goals like, you know,

576
01:21:30,208 --> 01:21:31,958
there's albatross, there's shearwaters,

577
01:21:32,208 --> 01:21:35,958
there's all kinds of amazing, you know,

578
01:21:35,958 --> 01:21:37,750
there's these tiny little petrels that

579
01:21:37,750 --> 01:21:39,708
dance on the surface of the water and

580
01:21:39,708 --> 01:21:41,000
grab that little zooplankton.

581
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:44,291
Like there's this huge diversity of birds

582
01:21:44,291 --> 01:21:47,208
out there. And I think that's something

583
01:21:47,208 --> 01:21:49,125
that, you know, many of us just kind of

584
01:21:49,125 --> 01:21:51,000
like miss out on. So they're worth caring

585
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:53,000
about intrinsically. Yes.

586
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:56,166
And maybe I'll just make like a little

587
01:21:56,166 --> 01:22:00,041
pitch to folks listening to the podcast

588
01:22:00,041 --> 01:22:02,500
we have if you go to

589
01:22:02,500 --> 01:22:04,916
ferrallandinstitute.org, there's a little

590
01:22:04,916 --> 01:22:06,708
banner at the top that directs people to

591
01:22:06,708 --> 01:22:09,000
seabirds.ferrallandinstitute.org.

592
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:13,625
And if you go to that page, you can have

593
01:22:13,625 --> 01:22:16,708
a look at a huge diversity of seabirds

594
01:22:16,708 --> 01:22:18,625
and spend a little bit of time learning

595
01:22:18,625 --> 01:22:22,708
about their life history, their the way

596
01:22:22,708 --> 01:22:24,416
that they breed, where they're located,

597
01:22:24,708 --> 01:22:27,041
who studies them and and kind of dig into

598
01:22:27,041 --> 01:22:27,916
all of that. If you

599
01:22:27,916 --> 01:22:28,541
find that interesting.

600
01:22:29,125 --> 01:22:30,541
We are going to link to it. I just I just

601
01:22:30,541 --> 01:22:32,250
I just clicked on it. And it's like an

602
01:22:32,250 --> 01:22:34,250
interactive site to find it. This is

603
01:22:34,250 --> 01:22:36,333
awesome. Yeah, we're I'm gonna I'll link

604
01:22:36,333 --> 01:22:37,416
to it in the show notes so people can

605
01:22:37,416 --> 01:22:38,000
take a look. This is definitely something that I'm going to do.

606
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:39,916
This is definitely something you should

607
01:22:39,916 --> 01:22:41,875
take a look at that first image of

608
01:22:41,875 --> 01:22:45,500
seabirds diving in to get the fish is

609
01:22:45,500 --> 01:22:48,166
pretty cool like diving into the ocean is

610
01:22:48,166 --> 01:22:50,375
very, very cool. Yeah, this is awesome.

611
01:22:50,666 --> 01:22:51,291
Now let's talk let's

612
01:22:51,291 --> 01:22:52,000
talk about the paper.

613
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,625
This is this is an important paper that

614
01:22:54,625 --> 01:22:57,125
came out nature communications, or it's

615
01:22:57,125 --> 01:22:59,625
an environment called ecosystems mediate

616
01:22:59,625 --> 01:23:02,208
climate impacts on northern hemisphere

617
01:23:02,208 --> 01:23:04,208
seabirds. So looking at

618
01:23:04,208 --> 01:23:05,916
climate impacts on seabirds.

619
01:23:06,916 --> 01:23:09,041
Can we talk just a little bit of how this

620
01:23:09,041 --> 01:23:11,083
paper kind of came into existence like

621
01:23:11,083 --> 01:23:13,500
the idea of it was it based off of what

622
01:23:13,500 --> 01:23:15,666
you guys were like, was it a plan thing?

623
01:23:16,333 --> 01:23:18,750
You know, as you go through the grant and

624
01:23:18,750 --> 01:23:19,875
you're doing all these studies, you're

625
01:23:19,875 --> 01:23:20,458
taking all these

626
01:23:20,458 --> 01:23:21,000
measurements, are we looking like

627
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:24,000
how like we're gonna look at how climb is

628
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:25,833
looking at seabirds, but different

629
01:23:25,833 --> 01:23:28,291
populations in the Pacific in the North

630
01:23:28,291 --> 01:23:30,875
Atlantic and in the South Atlantic. I

631
01:23:30,875 --> 01:23:33,541
mean, that's a big thing to do. How did

632
01:23:33,541 --> 01:23:35,208
this whole idea kind of come into play?

633
01:23:35,958 --> 01:23:39,833
Yeah. Good question. So I'll kind of wrap

634
01:23:39,833 --> 01:23:44,000
that together with reasons two and three

635
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:46,375
that you should care about seabirds are

636
01:23:46,375 --> 01:23:48,833
and it's kind of like the intro to that

637
01:23:48,833 --> 01:23:49,916
next question. Yeah.

638
01:23:51,125 --> 01:23:54,333
So one of the things that seabird

639
01:23:54,333 --> 01:23:56,291
researchers and marine researchers in

640
01:23:56,291 --> 01:23:58,750
general have learned is that you can get

641
01:23:58,750 --> 01:24:00,666
a lot of information about the health of

642
01:24:00,666 --> 01:24:03,666
the ocean by looking at top predators and

643
01:24:03,666 --> 01:24:05,166
how top predators are faring.

644
01:24:06,500 --> 01:24:09,875
Seabirds are often considered to be

645
01:24:09,875 --> 01:24:13,500
sentinel species in that they're kind of

646
01:24:13,500 --> 01:24:15,875
like the canaries in the coal mine of an

647
01:24:15,875 --> 01:24:20,041
ecosystem. We can look to seabirds and

648
01:24:20,041 --> 01:24:22,333
their performance on a number of

649
01:24:22,333 --> 01:24:24,500
different metrics to try to understand

650
01:24:24,500 --> 01:24:26,416
how the rest of the ecosystem is doing.

651
01:24:27,041 --> 01:24:29,208
And it's a little easier to look at

652
01:24:29,208 --> 01:24:31,250
seabirds because they're above the ocean.

653
01:24:31,875 --> 01:24:34,041
You can go to a colony and count them.

654
01:24:34,250 --> 01:24:36,500
You can pick up their chicks and measure

655
01:24:36,500 --> 01:24:38,708
how fat they are and see what they're

656
01:24:38,708 --> 01:24:40,250
eating and all kinds of those kinds of

657
01:24:40,250 --> 01:24:44,333
things. So sentinel seabirds are this

658
01:24:44,333 --> 01:24:48,291
really uniquely useful sentinel species

659
01:24:48,291 --> 01:24:51,625
group of species to understand how the

660
01:24:51,625 --> 01:24:54,333
ocean is doing and how it's changing and

661
01:24:54,333 --> 01:24:55,916
how ecosystems are responding to climate.

662
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:02,375
So back in 2021, Bill Seidman and other

663
01:25:02,375 --> 01:25:03,833
colleagues at the Farallon Institute

664
01:25:03,833 --> 01:25:07,208
published this paper in science where

665
01:25:07,208 --> 01:25:11,458
they looked at hemispheric asymmetry in

666
01:25:11,458 --> 01:25:12,750
the breeding productivity

667
01:25:12,750 --> 01:25:14,083
of seabirds around the world.

668
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:16,916
So in an earlier version of the data set

669
01:25:16,916 --> 01:25:19,208
that's published in this paper that we're

670
01:25:19,208 --> 01:25:22,625
talking about today, what they found is

671
01:25:22,625 --> 01:25:24,666
that seabirds in the northern hemisphere,

672
01:25:25,375 --> 01:25:27,958
their breeding productivity and their

673
01:25:27,958 --> 01:25:29,666
probability of breeding failure.

674
01:25:30,625 --> 01:25:33,500
Well, I guess I should say, their

675
01:25:33,500 --> 01:25:35,833
breeding productivity is in decline and

676
01:25:35,833 --> 01:25:37,791
the probability of breeding failure is

677
01:25:37,791 --> 01:25:39,125
going up in the northern hemisphere

678
01:25:39,125 --> 01:25:41,000
faster than in the southern hemisphere.

679
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:43,916
Interesting. And they, you know, they

680
01:25:43,916 --> 01:25:45,666
suggested a lot of reasons for why that

681
01:25:45,666 --> 01:25:49,000
might be happening. This paper is kind of

682
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,416
a follow up where we've expanded the

683
01:25:51,416 --> 01:25:54,000
number of time series that we look at.

684
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,583
And we instead of looking at hemispheric

685
01:25:57,583 --> 01:25:59,750
asymmetry, we sort of zoom in on, you

686
01:25:59,750 --> 01:26:01,166
know, are there particular ecosystems

687
01:26:01,166 --> 01:26:02,750
throughout the northern hemisphere where

688
01:26:02,750 --> 01:26:05,791
birds are feeling better than others or

689
01:26:05,791 --> 01:26:08,333
worse than others and why, why might that

690
01:26:08,333 --> 01:26:09,000
be what might be driving that?

691
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,875
Interesting. So the first so the first

692
01:26:12,875 --> 01:26:14,833
paper figured out that something's going

693
01:26:14,833 --> 01:26:17,041
on within the hemispheres, then you guys

694
01:26:17,041 --> 01:26:20,458
dove deeper into the hemisphere where

695
01:26:20,458 --> 01:26:21,916
they're like the north, the North

696
01:26:21,916 --> 01:26:24,375
Atlantic like that, that area and the

697
01:26:24,375 --> 01:26:25,291
Pacific where they

698
01:26:25,291 --> 01:26:26,541
weren't doing as well. Is that?

699
01:26:27,250 --> 01:26:29,250
Yeah, we were looking to understand, you

700
01:26:29,250 --> 01:26:32,750
know, at a finer scale than just north

701
01:26:32,750 --> 01:26:34,916
versus south. Right. Can we look at these

702
01:26:34,916 --> 01:26:36,083
different ocean basins

703
01:26:36,083 --> 01:26:37,000
and start to see patterns?

704
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:41,333
In that sense, I'm putting my science hat

705
01:26:41,333 --> 01:26:43,833
on here in that sense. Are you looking at

706
01:26:43,833 --> 01:26:46,666
the same bird species across different

707
01:26:46,666 --> 01:26:50,041
habitats? Is that what you're looking at?

708
01:26:50,875 --> 01:26:52,291
Yeah, so that's another one of the things

709
01:26:52,291 --> 01:26:55,000
that makes this this paper and the

710
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:58,833
earlier one so exciting is that we have

711
01:26:58,833 --> 01:27:01,625
100 in this this most recent version,

712
01:27:01,625 --> 01:27:03,666
we've got 138 data sets

713
01:27:03,666 --> 01:27:04,000
from the northern hemisphere.

714
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:08,041
And more than that, if you include the

715
01:27:08,041 --> 01:27:09,583
southern hemisphere where we also have

716
01:27:09,583 --> 01:27:11,541
data and there's going to be research

717
01:27:11,541 --> 01:27:14,333
published on that pretty soon. But just

718
01:27:14,333 --> 01:27:16,000
looking at the northern hemisphere 138

719
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:18,541
data sets time series of birds doing

720
01:27:18,541 --> 01:27:19,708
better or worse every year.

721
01:27:20,416 --> 01:27:23,375
And that represents 39 species. Okay.

722
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:29,625
And that's the most exciting thing about the data.

723
01:27:29,625 --> 01:27:29,833
That's right.

724
01:27:29,833 --> 01:27:34,375
Yeah, it's this huge resource to pull

725
01:27:34,375 --> 01:27:36,166
information out of and that's one of the

726
01:27:36,166 --> 01:27:38,750
most exciting things about the data.

727
01:27:38,958 --> 01:27:40,458
Well, I should say too is like for the

728
01:27:40,458 --> 01:27:42,208
audience members like normally when you

729
01:27:42,208 --> 01:27:45,291
get a data set, it's five years, four or

730
01:27:45,291 --> 01:27:46,500
five years, three years if you're lucky

731
01:27:46,500 --> 01:27:47,791
because it costs a lot of money to do

732
01:27:47,791 --> 01:27:49,375
these monitoring programs to get

733
01:27:49,375 --> 01:27:51,000
something that expands over decades.

734
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:55,125
It's super exciting for researchers to

735
01:27:55,125 --> 01:27:57,333
have like that is that's like getting

736
01:27:57,333 --> 01:27:59,000
like a sugary cereal every once in a

737
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:00,416
while. You get it? You're like, this is

738
01:28:00,416 --> 01:28:02,250
awesome. Like this is this is really

739
01:28:02,250 --> 01:28:03,541
good. We'll get a lot of data out of

740
01:28:03,541 --> 01:28:04,291
this. You know what I mean?

741
01:28:04,541 --> 01:28:07,125
Yeah, totally. I and I think like, you

742
01:28:07,125 --> 01:28:09,791
know, that highlights another one of the

743
01:28:09,791 --> 01:28:12,458
parts of this whole experience that I

744
01:28:12,458 --> 01:28:14,500
have loved the most is for this paper, we

745
01:28:14,500 --> 01:28:17,875
have 56 different authors and they're

746
01:28:17,875 --> 01:28:19,166
from 12 countries

747
01:28:19,166 --> 01:28:20,000
throughout the northern hemisphere.

748
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:26,375
So like this huge data set has been the

749
01:28:26,375 --> 01:28:29,625
product of scientists all over the world

750
01:28:29,625 --> 01:28:32,625
going out to these tiny islands or these

751
01:28:32,625 --> 01:28:36,541
remote places and spending their years of

752
01:28:36,541 --> 01:28:38,833
their life monitoring these

753
01:28:38,833 --> 01:28:40,000
particular seabird colonies.

754
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:43,041
And so, you know, again, if you go to

755
01:28:43,041 --> 01:28:44,500
that website, you scroll all the way to

756
01:28:44,500 --> 01:28:46,666
the bottom, you can see field notes

757
01:28:46,666 --> 01:28:48,916
stories from the field of these these

758
01:28:48,916 --> 01:28:50,458
different places around the world and get

759
01:28:50,458 --> 01:28:51,791
a sense for what it's like to be a

760
01:28:51,791 --> 01:28:54,375
seabird researcher on these far places.

761
01:28:54,375 --> 01:28:57,625
And sometimes like in the middle of the

762
01:28:57,625 --> 01:28:59,500
ocean where thousands of miles from the

763
01:28:59,500 --> 01:29:00,916
nearest person. Oh, yeah.

764
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:03,791
And so all of that is kind of brought

765
01:29:03,791 --> 01:29:05,750
together to help tell us about what's

766
01:29:05,750 --> 01:29:06,916
going on throughout the northern

767
01:29:06,916 --> 01:29:08,208
hemisphere throughout the world.

768
01:29:08,833 --> 01:29:10,500
But I think it's a it's really a

769
01:29:10,500 --> 01:29:14,625
celebration of of all the hard one data

770
01:29:14,625 --> 01:29:16,958
that these people all around the world,

771
01:29:16,958 --> 01:29:18,041
these people who really care about

772
01:29:18,041 --> 01:29:19,500
seabirds care about the health of our

773
01:29:19,500 --> 01:29:21,000
oceans have been able to bring together.

774
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:24,083
It's incredible. Like this site is

775
01:29:24,083 --> 01:29:26,541
incredible, too. Like you've got like all

776
01:29:26,541 --> 01:29:29,500
the data on each on each of the the birds

777
01:29:29,500 --> 01:29:32,541
and you know, you got all the data in

778
01:29:32,541 --> 01:29:34,083
there. You look at the field sites and

779
01:29:34,083 --> 01:29:36,000
stuff. This is really, really cool.

780
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,500
We don't see this often from from like

781
01:29:39,500 --> 01:29:41,500
like a big project like this really

782
01:29:41,500 --> 01:29:43,416
showing, you know, everything that's

783
01:29:43,416 --> 01:29:45,166
going on, even having like field notes,

784
01:29:45,166 --> 01:29:48,500
you know, to to get people's ideas of

785
01:29:48,500 --> 01:29:49,791
what's happening and what they're going

786
01:29:49,791 --> 01:29:51,125
through and what they're experiencing in

787
01:29:51,125 --> 01:29:51,708
different parts of the

788
01:29:51,708 --> 01:29:53,250
world and what they're seeing.

789
01:29:53,541 --> 01:29:55,791
I just think that's that's incredible.

790
01:29:55,791 --> 01:29:57,291
It's a really great piece. Whoever put

791
01:29:57,291 --> 01:29:59,375
this together. I guess it's the Fairland

792
01:29:59,375 --> 01:30:02,625
Institute, but unreal to be able to do

793
01:30:02,625 --> 01:30:03,916
this. This is this is

794
01:30:03,916 --> 01:30:06,000
really exciting to to have this.

795
01:30:06,375 --> 01:30:09,875
How did did your lab get to be

796
01:30:09,875 --> 01:30:12,416
a part of this whole project?

797
01:30:13,541 --> 01:30:15,333
Yeah, well, that's really that's an

798
01:30:15,333 --> 01:30:17,458
effort that's been led by my postdoc

799
01:30:17,458 --> 01:30:21,416
supervisor, Bill Seidenen, who founded

800
01:30:21,416 --> 01:30:25,583
the Fairland Institute. He is a like

801
01:30:25,583 --> 01:30:27,958
eminent seabird researcher.

802
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:31,875
He's done, you know, done an enormous

803
01:30:31,875 --> 01:30:33,416
amount of work on seabirds throughout his

804
01:30:33,416 --> 01:30:35,166
career and has these connections all

805
01:30:35,166 --> 01:30:37,916
around the world of people who have

806
01:30:37,916 --> 01:30:40,083
monitored different locations. Yeah.

807
01:30:41,958 --> 01:30:44,458
Bill himself has been heavily involved in

808
01:30:44,458 --> 01:30:46,250
monitoring off the California coast,

809
01:30:46,791 --> 01:30:48,791
including the at the Farallon Islands.

810
01:30:49,833 --> 01:30:51,666
But, you know, he's he's one of many

811
01:30:51,666 --> 01:30:53,375
seabird researchers who are

812
01:30:53,375 --> 01:30:54,000
in all these different places.

813
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:59,000
And I think he and and others who have

814
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:01,750
published meta analysis in recent years

815
01:31:01,750 --> 01:31:04,666
saw the need for this kind of integrative

816
01:31:04,666 --> 01:31:09,166
knowledge, this the synthesis of, okay,

817
01:31:09,166 --> 01:31:10,708
we know this is happening here. We think

818
01:31:10,708 --> 01:31:11,416
it's due to climate.

819
01:31:11,625 --> 01:31:12,958
We know this is happening here. We think

820
01:31:12,958 --> 01:31:15,416
it's due to climate. What what can we see

821
01:31:15,416 --> 01:31:17,333
and learn differently if we bring all

822
01:31:17,333 --> 01:31:17,916
that information

823
01:31:17,916 --> 01:31:19,000
together to get the big picture.

824
01:31:19,125 --> 01:31:22,083
Amazing. So this first paper that comes

825
01:31:22,083 --> 01:31:25,625
out really exciting has some pretty

826
01:31:25,625 --> 01:31:29,375
alarming things that that were observed

827
01:31:29,375 --> 01:31:31,000
and that were that were revealed within

828
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:33,000
this paper. Can you just kind of talk a

829
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,125
little bit about some of those results? I

830
01:31:35,125 --> 01:31:35,916
just mentioned that we'll

831
01:31:35,916 --> 01:31:37,000
dive deeper into into each one.

832
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:43,166
Yeah, yeah, sure. So I'll kind of walk

833
01:31:43,166 --> 01:31:46,083
through some of the key findings. So what

834
01:31:46,083 --> 01:31:48,458
we sought out to do is, you know, we've

835
01:31:48,458 --> 01:31:50,458
got all this data from throughout the

836
01:31:50,458 --> 01:31:52,583
northern hemisphere, we broke it up into

837
01:31:52,583 --> 01:31:54,833
seven different major ecosystems. So

838
01:31:54,833 --> 01:31:58,291
places like the Northwest Atlantic, you

839
01:31:58,291 --> 01:32:00,208
think like the eastern seaboard of the US

840
01:32:00,208 --> 01:32:04,291
into Canada, the northern your northern

841
01:32:04,291 --> 01:32:05,000
European seas, which is, you know, the northern sea.

842
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:06,166
The northern European seas, which is, you

843
01:32:06,166 --> 01:32:09,750
know, the north sea and sort of areas of

844
01:32:09,750 --> 01:32:13,958
northern Europe. The, the Northeast

845
01:32:13,958 --> 01:32:17,000
Pacific, including both the cold

846
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:19,583
temperate areas and the warmer areas off

847
01:32:19,583 --> 01:32:23,500
of Baja Hawaii, the Arctic and then parts

848
01:32:23,500 --> 01:32:26,000
of the western side of the Pacific off

849
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:27,750
of, you know, Korea, Japan, China.

850
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:30,250
And so we looked at the different

851
01:32:30,250 --> 01:32:33,500
ecosystems around the world. And what we

852
01:32:33,500 --> 01:32:37,208
did was we looked at how our seabirds

853
01:32:37,208 --> 01:32:40,458
doing in each of these ecosystems through

854
01:32:40,458 --> 01:32:43,250
time, knowing that the climate is

855
01:32:43,250 --> 01:32:49,708
changing and that ecosystem responses to

856
01:32:49,708 --> 01:32:51,750
climate change and the rate of climate

857
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:55,875
change. So, you know, the northern Europe

858
01:32:55,875 --> 01:32:57,416
may be doing one thing and the Pacific

859
01:32:57,416 --> 01:33:00,333
may be doing another thing. A lot of that

860
01:33:00,333 --> 01:33:02,291
has to do with things like, you know,

861
01:33:02,458 --> 01:33:04,291
here in off of California and in the

862
01:33:04,291 --> 01:33:06,458
Northeast Pacific, the rhythms of the

863
01:33:06,458 --> 01:33:08,125
ecosystem are really driven by things

864
01:33:08,125 --> 01:33:12,458
like El Nino and factors like that.

865
01:33:12,458 --> 01:33:14,291
Whereas those features may not be as

866
01:33:14,291 --> 01:33:15,875
important in other parts of the world.

867
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:18,500
So the ecosystems are sort of structured

868
01:33:18,500 --> 01:33:20,583
differently in different places, but we

869
01:33:20,583 --> 01:33:22,291
know the climate is changing. So what

870
01:33:22,291 --> 01:33:26,291
does all this mean for top predators? And

871
01:33:26,291 --> 01:33:28,625
we chose to look at one specific metric,

872
01:33:29,208 --> 01:33:31,416
which is seabird breeding productivity,

873
01:33:31,416 --> 01:33:35,125
or the number of chicks fledged per

874
01:33:35,125 --> 01:33:38,333
female per year at each breeding colony.

875
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:40,625
And the reason we chose to look at that

876
01:33:40,625 --> 01:33:42,833
is because that is one metric that is

877
01:33:42,833 --> 01:33:46,666
reliably and consistently measured across

878
01:33:46,666 --> 01:33:48,500
many seabird colonies all around the

879
01:33:48,500 --> 01:33:50,416
world. So you're looking at the data sets

880
01:33:50,416 --> 01:33:51,041
and that's what they

881
01:33:51,041 --> 01:33:52,750
pretty much measure. Yeah. Okay.

882
01:33:53,166 --> 01:33:55,166
Yeah. So they reliably, you know, it's

883
01:33:55,166 --> 01:33:56,833
measured kind of the same way everywhere

884
01:33:56,833 --> 01:33:59,083
you go. It's something that's like in

885
01:33:59,083 --> 01:34:01,750
the, you know, first step in the manual.

886
01:34:02,166 --> 01:34:03,750
Yeah. Each of these colonies, like they

887
01:34:03,750 --> 01:34:05,000
get that data. Yeah.

888
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:06,750
And the other thing is that it tells us

889
01:34:06,750 --> 01:34:08,791
about the population dynamics going

890
01:34:08,791 --> 01:34:12,000
forward. It's not just what did they eat

891
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:13,458
this year? It's like how many chicks are

892
01:34:13,458 --> 01:34:14,666
they producing? What does that mean for

893
01:34:14,666 --> 01:34:16,041
the population in the future? It's a bit

894
01:34:16,041 --> 01:34:17,708
of a predictor. It's a

895
01:34:17,708 --> 01:34:19,000
bit of a predictor. Yeah.

896
01:34:19,916 --> 01:34:26,500
So we also used data from about sort of

897
01:34:26,500 --> 01:34:29,083
ocean conditions in each of these seven

898
01:34:29,083 --> 01:34:31,250
different ecosystems. And unsurprisingly,

899
01:34:31,916 --> 01:34:35,125
using this, looking at the environment,

900
01:34:35,125 --> 01:34:36,750
we found that it's warming everywhere.

901
01:34:37,416 --> 01:34:39,916
Right. If you kind of know that it's

902
01:34:39,916 --> 01:34:41,000
warming everywhere throughout the northern hemisphere. Yeah.

903
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:45,791
Looking back across decades of records.

904
01:34:47,958 --> 01:34:49,958
But we found that, you know, at a

905
01:34:49,958 --> 01:34:51,916
community level, like many species of

906
01:34:51,916 --> 01:34:53,166
seabirds living in all these different

907
01:34:53,166 --> 01:34:57,333
places at a big scale. We're not seeing

908
01:34:57,333 --> 01:35:00,083
seabirds just like nose diving in terms

909
01:35:00,083 --> 01:35:00,666
of their breeding

910
01:35:00,666 --> 01:35:03,000
productivity across all seven ecosystems.

911
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:06,041
We're seeing that we're seeing declines.

912
01:35:06,333 --> 01:35:09,541
It's statistically significant declines

913
01:35:09,541 --> 01:35:12,375
in the breeding productivity of seabirds

914
01:35:12,375 --> 01:35:15,791
in the Northwest Atlantic, in the Arctic

915
01:35:15,791 --> 01:35:18,333
and in Northern Europe. That's where

916
01:35:18,333 --> 01:35:21,000
we're seeing statistically significant

917
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:22,875
declines in breeding

918
01:35:22,875 --> 01:35:24,416
productivity of seabirds.

919
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:26,791
And when you say Northern Europe, is this

920
01:35:26,791 --> 01:35:28,375
still on the Atlantic side or is that

921
01:35:28,375 --> 01:35:30,666
like in the North? Yeah, North. It's the

922
01:35:30,666 --> 01:35:32,000
North Atlantic. Like, yeah.

923
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:37,166
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So so we're seeing

924
01:35:37,166 --> 01:35:39,333
these three ecosystems where seabird

925
01:35:39,333 --> 01:35:41,000
productivity is declining. Like there are

926
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:44,666
fewer babies per year. And we can see

927
01:35:44,666 --> 01:35:46,541
that in the data going back decades.

928
01:35:47,666 --> 01:35:52,166
We're not seeing that, though, is in

929
01:35:52,166 --> 01:35:54,833
places like in Hawaii and in the

930
01:35:54,833 --> 01:35:57,083
Northwest Pacific and in the Northeast

931
01:35:57,083 --> 01:35:59,916
Pacific. So basically, all of the

932
01:35:59,916 --> 01:36:03,708
Pacific, North Pacific, we're seeing more

933
01:36:03,708 --> 01:36:05,375
stability in the

934
01:36:05,375 --> 01:36:07,083
breeding productivity trends.

935
01:36:08,083 --> 01:36:09,708
And that's in spite of sort

936
01:36:09,708 --> 01:36:11,875
of ubiquitous warming. Right.

937
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:14,875
And one of the reasons why we might think

938
01:36:14,875 --> 01:36:17,125
for these things to be linked is that,

939
01:36:17,125 --> 01:36:20,083
you know, if you get warming seas, you

940
01:36:20,083 --> 01:36:23,500
get changing food conditions, like as

941
01:36:23,500 --> 01:36:26,500
things warm up, the phytoplankton

942
01:36:26,500 --> 01:36:28,291
changes. You might get phytoplankton

943
01:36:28,291 --> 01:36:30,208
later in the year or earlier in the year.

944
01:36:30,208 --> 01:36:33,166
It's mismatched in terms of its time with

945
01:36:33,166 --> 01:36:35,750
the zooplankton, with the forage fish,

946
01:36:35,750 --> 01:36:37,208
and then there's less available for the

947
01:36:37,208 --> 01:36:39,000
top predators. Right. Right.

948
01:36:39,916 --> 01:36:42,583
And it could have also move, like shifted

949
01:36:42,583 --> 01:36:44,916
based on currents, too. Yeah. Yep. You

950
01:36:44,916 --> 01:36:46,833
could see it. Yeah. So we kind of

951
01:36:46,833 --> 01:36:48,666
actually, we can kind of bundle all of

952
01:36:48,666 --> 01:36:50,375
that together. And we sort of expect that

953
01:36:50,375 --> 01:36:52,916
with warming conditions and climate

954
01:36:52,916 --> 01:36:54,833
change, we expect to see this either

955
01:36:54,833 --> 01:36:58,250
spatial or temporal mismatch between prey

956
01:36:58,250 --> 01:37:00,500
and predators. Right.

957
01:37:01,625 --> 01:37:02,500
And that's something we can broadly

958
01:37:02,500 --> 01:37:04,625
expect to be the case across a lot of

959
01:37:04,625 --> 01:37:06,666
ecosystems, but we're seeing more

960
01:37:06,666 --> 01:37:09,166
stability in the Pacific across these

961
01:37:09,166 --> 01:37:10,791
decades of of seabird breeding

962
01:37:10,791 --> 01:37:13,333
productivity records than we're seeing in

963
01:37:13,333 --> 01:37:14,958
the North Atlantic in the Arctic where

964
01:37:14,958 --> 01:37:17,000
we're seeing, okay, yeah, seabirds are in

965
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:18,666
decline in these places for sure.

966
01:37:21,291 --> 01:37:23,500
So that that's one of so it's, you know,

967
01:37:23,500 --> 01:37:25,000
it's warming everywhere. We're seeing

968
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,166
seabird breeding productivity decline in

969
01:37:27,166 --> 01:37:29,000
some places, but not everywhere. Yeah.

970
01:37:29,541 --> 01:37:33,250
Another key finding was that in places

971
01:37:33,250 --> 01:37:37,541
where we see that the we're seeing a

972
01:37:37,541 --> 01:37:41,125
stronger link between warming and and

973
01:37:41,125 --> 01:37:43,000
other climate change metrics during the

974
01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:46,291
prebreeding season, then during other

975
01:37:46,291 --> 01:37:51,333
parts of the year. So one important thing

976
01:37:51,333 --> 01:37:53,250
to know here is that when seabirds breed,

977
01:37:53,250 --> 01:37:54,500
they come back to a

978
01:37:54,500 --> 01:37:56,000
colony to breed, right?

979
01:37:56,041 --> 01:37:58,250
They don't just kind of like breed

980
01:37:58,250 --> 01:38:00,375
wherever they are. They all come back to

981
01:38:00,375 --> 01:38:03,000
one location. They find their partner,

982
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:06,333
they lay an egg, and they they raise that

983
01:38:06,333 --> 01:38:07,500
egg until it fludges.

984
01:38:08,875 --> 01:38:13,416
The period of time from when the seabirds

985
01:38:13,416 --> 01:38:15,833
arrive at the colony to when that egg

986
01:38:15,833 --> 01:38:18,916
hatches conditions during that period

987
01:38:18,916 --> 01:38:20,666
seem to be really important for

988
01:38:20,666 --> 01:38:23,166
determining breeding success across

989
01:38:23,166 --> 01:38:26,500
ecosystems, including those ecosystems

990
01:38:26,500 --> 01:38:27,583
where we see greater

991
01:38:27,583 --> 01:38:30,208
stability in the Pacific.

992
01:38:31,166 --> 01:38:35,000
So, for example, you know, years where

993
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:37,583
it's warm in the in the Northeast Pacific

994
01:38:37,583 --> 01:38:40,166
and in the Arctic, we see during the

995
01:38:40,166 --> 01:38:42,208
prebreeding season in particular, we see

996
01:38:42,208 --> 01:38:43,583
a decline in breeding success.

997
01:38:45,291 --> 01:38:47,875
When waters are more stratified in the

998
01:38:47,875 --> 01:38:50,083
Northwest Atlantic during the prebreeding

999
01:38:50,083 --> 01:38:53,208
season, we see a bigger decline, a market

1000
01:38:53,208 --> 01:38:54,250
decline in the seabird

1001
01:38:54,250 --> 01:38:55,000
breeding productivity.

1002
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:58,125
So that like early part of their breeding

1003
01:38:58,125 --> 01:39:00,333
season is kind of this critical period

1004
01:39:00,333 --> 01:39:02,958
for determining the ultimate success. And

1005
01:39:02,958 --> 01:39:04,166
just if you can just define

1006
01:39:04,166 --> 01:39:06,541
stratification just for those who are not

1007
01:39:06,541 --> 01:39:08,208
familiar with that term.

1008
01:39:08,833 --> 01:39:11,375
Yeah. So, you know, if you picture like a

1009
01:39:11,375 --> 01:39:14,458
whole water column from the surface down

1010
01:39:14,458 --> 01:39:17,875
to the very bottom. Stratification is a

1011
01:39:17,875 --> 01:39:21,000
term that we use to to describe how

1012
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:22,000
layered that water is.

1013
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:25,958
So if you're like back in your high

1014
01:39:25,958 --> 01:39:27,916
school science class and you're putting

1015
01:39:27,916 --> 01:39:31,208
vinegar on top of oil, they split, right?

1016
01:39:31,750 --> 01:39:33,208
Yeah, you've got the vinegar sitting on

1017
01:39:33,208 --> 01:39:35,000
the oil sitting on top and

1018
01:39:35,000 --> 01:39:36,000
the vinegar on the bottom.

1019
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:40,250
Mm hmm. So you get less dense solutions

1020
01:39:40,250 --> 01:39:43,291
sit on top of more dense solutions. The

1021
01:39:43,291 --> 01:39:46,708
same thing happens in the ocean. Dense,

1022
01:39:46,708 --> 01:39:50,083
cold, salty water sits at the bottom and

1023
01:39:50,083 --> 01:39:52,041
warm, lighter, fresher

1024
01:39:52,041 --> 01:39:53,125
water sits at the top.

1025
01:39:55,833 --> 01:39:57,916
Unless you get mixing, right? And if the

1026
01:39:57,916 --> 01:39:59,958
water column gets mixed by storms or

1027
01:39:59,958 --> 01:40:01,458
winds, then you can you kind of like

1028
01:40:01,458 --> 01:40:03,250
shake up that solid dressing or whatever.

1029
01:40:03,791 --> 01:40:06,583
Yep. But we expect, you know, we can see

1030
01:40:06,583 --> 01:40:10,750
that stratification is more pronounced is

1031
01:40:10,750 --> 01:40:13,375
the water columns more layered when the

1032
01:40:13,375 --> 01:40:14,541
surface layer warms.

1033
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:17,125
Right. So if it's getting warmer at the

1034
01:40:17,125 --> 01:40:20,541
surface and, you know, this is one of the

1035
01:40:20,541 --> 01:40:22,041
things that we expect to be a byproduct

1036
01:40:22,041 --> 01:40:24,083
of climate change as the world warms, we

1037
01:40:24,083 --> 01:40:25,958
expect the surface water to warm very

1038
01:40:25,958 --> 01:40:30,083
quickly and it increases this resistance

1039
01:40:30,083 --> 01:40:32,500
to mixing throughout the water column.

1040
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:35,541
And so we call that we we expect to see

1041
01:40:35,541 --> 01:40:37,500
greater stratification through time with

1042
01:40:37,500 --> 01:40:39,458
climate change. And there have been some

1043
01:40:39,458 --> 01:40:41,875
really great papers looking at

1044
01:40:41,875 --> 01:40:44,041
stratification trends around the world

1045
01:40:44,041 --> 01:40:46,666
that have shown that across ocean basins,

1046
01:40:46,666 --> 01:40:48,166
we are seeing a tendency

1047
01:40:48,166 --> 01:40:49,375
for greater stratification.

1048
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:53,500
And so this for stratification, why would

1049
01:40:53,500 --> 01:40:56,000
that matter for that period, you know,

1050
01:40:56,666 --> 01:40:59,458
pre colony, like before the colony to,

1051
01:40:59,458 --> 01:41:01,500
you know, basically the fledgling come

1052
01:41:01,500 --> 01:41:04,583
out? Yeah. So there's a lot of different

1053
01:41:04,583 --> 01:41:06,458
ways or there's several different ways

1054
01:41:06,458 --> 01:41:07,833
that stratification could impact

1055
01:41:07,833 --> 01:41:09,208
seabirds, including

1056
01:41:09,208 --> 01:41:10,416
during the pre breeding season.

1057
01:41:12,000 --> 01:41:15,500
So for instance, you know, if you can

1058
01:41:15,500 --> 01:41:17,666
picture kind of like warmer and colder

1059
01:41:17,666 --> 01:41:20,875
water sitting separate to each other, you

1060
01:41:20,875 --> 01:41:24,541
might see different fish species living

1061
01:41:24,541 --> 01:41:25,875
in those different parts of the water

1062
01:41:25,875 --> 01:41:27,791
column or different zooplankton living in

1063
01:41:27,791 --> 01:41:29,125
the different parts of the water column.

1064
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:32,083
So if you've got if you're the view

1065
01:41:32,083 --> 01:41:33,833
really if you're from a seabirds point of

1066
01:41:33,833 --> 01:41:35,875
view, you really want to get the stuff

1067
01:41:35,875 --> 01:41:39,208
that's in the cold salty deeper water, a

1068
01:41:39,208 --> 01:41:42,916
very thick stratified layer warm layer at

1069
01:41:42,916 --> 01:41:44,708
the top is going to make it harder for

1070
01:41:44,708 --> 01:41:45,583
you to get down and get

1071
01:41:45,583 --> 01:41:47,500
those course those fish.

1072
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:50,666
Yeah. So that's one one way that it could.

1073
01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:53,875
And I think that to expand on that, going

1074
01:41:53,875 --> 01:41:56,375
back to my master's degree, one of the

1075
01:41:56,375 --> 01:41:57,458
things I found so you know, you're

1076
01:41:57,458 --> 01:41:59,333
looking at the North Atlantic, you're

1077
01:41:59,333 --> 01:42:01,875
very it's very influenced by the Gulf

1078
01:42:01,875 --> 01:42:03,875
Stream that comes up, you know, just

1079
01:42:03,875 --> 01:42:05,166
outside of Nova Scotia.

1080
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:07,333
And I remember every once in a while

1081
01:42:07,333 --> 01:42:08,958
you'll get these eddies that come off of

1082
01:42:08,958 --> 01:42:10,666
the Gulf Stream, you know, go into off

1083
01:42:10,666 --> 01:42:11,833
the the Scotian shelf.

1084
01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:31,666
You know, you get that warm water, right?

1085
01:42:31,666 --> 01:42:34,416
And then you get that dense cold water on

1086
01:42:34,416 --> 01:42:36,458
the on the bottom, as if that's what kind

1087
01:42:36,458 --> 01:42:38,541
of makes that that loop go across that we

1088
01:42:38,541 --> 01:42:39,833
hear so much the North Atlantic loop.

1089
01:42:40,916 --> 01:42:41,791
It's just yeah, it's just a very

1090
01:42:41,791 --> 01:42:42,666
interesting. That's what made it think

1091
01:42:42,666 --> 01:42:44,125
that made me think about it. You look at

1092
01:42:44,125 --> 01:42:46,458
that stratification. That gets more and

1093
01:42:46,458 --> 01:42:47,791
more stratified. You're looking at some

1094
01:42:47,791 --> 01:42:48,708
problems there. Yeah.

1095
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:54,958
Like that, that gradient between, you

1096
01:42:54,958 --> 01:42:59,125
know, dense and lighter water is part of

1097
01:42:59,125 --> 01:43:01,958
what drives these like vast ocean

1098
01:43:01,958 --> 01:43:03,666
throughout the whole world.

1099
01:43:05,000 --> 01:43:05,833
And so, you know, like thinking like

1100
01:43:05,833 --> 01:43:08,291
really close to a colony or something

1101
01:43:08,291 --> 01:43:11,625
stratification could impact the kinds of

1102
01:43:11,625 --> 01:43:13,708
prey that's available. It could also

1103
01:43:13,708 --> 01:43:15,750
impact, you know, the water quality,

1104
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:19,666
maybe the lighter, fresher water is more

1105
01:43:19,666 --> 01:43:23,000
or less clear making it easier or harder

1106
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:25,458
for a diving seabird to

1107
01:43:25,458 --> 01:43:27,291
visually track its prey.

1108
01:43:29,000 --> 01:43:35,208
And so, you know, the other thing that

1109
01:43:35,208 --> 01:43:37,041
you kind of think might be going on in

1110
01:43:37,041 --> 01:43:39,000
the Northwest Atlantic where we're seeing

1111
01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:41,041
that relationship between stratification

1112
01:43:41,041 --> 01:43:45,083
and breeding productivity is period years

1113
01:43:45,083 --> 01:43:48,250
where there have been where there has

1114
01:43:48,250 --> 01:43:50,416
been greater stratification are linked to

1115
01:43:50,416 --> 01:43:52,583
one type of sort of ecosystem

1116
01:43:52,583 --> 01:43:55,125
productivity like zooplankton and

1117
01:43:55,125 --> 01:43:56,416
phytoplankton community.

1118
01:43:57,416 --> 01:43:57,541
And so, you know, there's a lot of things that are going on in
the Northwest Atlantic that are going to be a little bit more

1119
01:43:57,541 --> 01:43:59,958
than in years where there's, you know,

1120
01:44:00,916 --> 01:44:03,458
lower stratification. Right. And I think

1121
01:44:03,458 --> 01:44:05,416
a lot of that has, you know, not being

1122
01:44:05,416 --> 01:44:07,166
from the Northwest Atlantic and not

1123
01:44:07,166 --> 01:44:10,000
knowing that system as well. A lot of

1124
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:11,875
that is driven by like freshwater inputs

1125
01:44:11,875 --> 01:44:16,208
and it really changes the structure of

1126
01:44:16,208 --> 01:44:18,208
the lower trophic levels of the

1127
01:44:18,208 --> 01:44:20,500
community, which seabirds then like

1128
01:44:20,500 --> 01:44:22,500
predate upon to feed their chicks.

1129
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:26,125
Yeah, yeah. That's, that's, it's pretty

1130
01:44:26,125 --> 01:44:28,791
heavy to really think about this now.

1131
01:44:28,791 --> 01:44:31,333
Now, how much is it affecting like you're

1132
01:44:31,333 --> 01:44:32,541
talking about the sort of the breeding

1133
01:44:32,541 --> 01:44:35,291
capabilities, like how much of a decline

1134
01:44:35,291 --> 01:44:37,916
are we seeing over the end and how fast

1135
01:44:37,916 --> 01:44:41,291
are we seeing is it is it speeding up or

1136
01:44:41,291 --> 01:44:43,750
is it still like a slow process?

1137
01:44:45,041 --> 01:44:50,208
Yeah, it is. Well, it's a slow process,

1138
01:44:50,208 --> 01:44:54,375
but it's still very remarkable that it's

1139
01:44:54,375 --> 01:44:57,833
even detectable because we're talking

1140
01:44:57,833 --> 01:45:01,166
about like, you know, dozens of species

1141
01:45:01,166 --> 01:45:03,541
in these different systems. And you would

1142
01:45:03,541 --> 01:45:05,166
think that like, okay, one might be doing

1143
01:45:05,166 --> 01:45:05,875
better with climate

1144
01:45:05,875 --> 01:45:07,000
change, one might be doing worse.

1145
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:10,625
But in aggregate, we're seeing a

1146
01:45:10,625 --> 01:45:14,333
statistically significant decline. And,

1147
01:45:14,333 --> 01:45:16,416
you know, we tried to kind of create

1148
01:45:16,416 --> 01:45:20,333
decades scale trends or estimates for how

1149
01:45:20,333 --> 01:45:23,166
fast it's happening. And it across the

1150
01:45:23,166 --> 01:45:24,500
different ecosystems, we're seeing

1151
01:45:24,500 --> 01:45:27,000
declines, it's like from six to 11% per

1152
01:45:27,000 --> 01:45:30,625
decade into in a decline in seabird

1153
01:45:30,625 --> 01:45:32,250
breeding productivity, based

1154
01:45:32,250 --> 01:45:33,291
on compared to the baseline.

1155
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:36,916
Right. And that's pretty remarkable. Like, you

1156
01:45:36,916 --> 01:45:40,166
know, if you fast forward decades out

1157
01:45:40,166 --> 01:45:44,500
that that's clearly an issue. And it

1158
01:45:44,500 --> 01:45:46,500
going back to the Pacific for a second,

1159
01:45:46,500 --> 01:45:48,041
where we've been talking about, okay,

1160
01:45:48,041 --> 01:45:50,791
it's a little bit more stable. We're not

1161
01:45:50,791 --> 01:45:52,000
seeing a record of decline.

1162
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:55,958
We're very concerned about the fact that

1163
01:45:55,958 --> 01:45:58,958
we may not see a decline yet, but we

1164
01:45:58,958 --> 01:46:01,333
could very well reach tipping points

1165
01:46:01,333 --> 01:46:04,041
where we start to see really marked

1166
01:46:04,041 --> 01:46:07,000
declines. And we've seen that in recent

1167
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:10,041
years, like, you know, 2014 through 2016,

1168
01:46:10,041 --> 01:46:14,000
we had this huge heat wave that affected

1169
01:46:14,000 --> 01:46:15,000
their whole northeast Pacific.

1170
01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:19,875
It was called the blob. Yeah, right. So

1171
01:46:19,875 --> 01:46:21,916
that story, one of one of the things that

1172
01:46:21,916 --> 01:46:25,416
happened during the blob, John Piot, a

1173
01:46:25,416 --> 01:46:27,291
really great seabird researcher,

1174
01:46:28,041 --> 01:46:30,750
published this paper documenting that,

1175
01:46:30,750 --> 01:46:32,666
like half a million to over a million

1176
01:46:32,666 --> 01:46:35,833
common mers died, presumably of

1177
01:46:35,833 --> 01:46:38,000
starvation during the blob.

1178
01:46:38,000 --> 01:46:40,000
And that was in the north northeast

1179
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:42,041
Pacific, where we're saying that breeding

1180
01:46:42,041 --> 01:46:44,625
success is kind of like stable. Right.

1181
01:46:45,041 --> 01:46:46,291
But in recent years, we're seeing these

1182
01:46:46,291 --> 01:46:48,500
like crazy things happen. And there's not

1183
01:46:48,500 --> 01:46:50,500
been as much of a record of recovery in

1184
01:46:50,500 --> 01:46:52,208
years since since the blob

1185
01:46:52,208 --> 01:46:53,208
for the common population.

1186
01:46:53,708 --> 01:46:57,291
So it's very like, it's very possible

1187
01:46:57,291 --> 01:46:59,250
that in in the near future, we could

1188
01:46:59,250 --> 01:47:01,125
start to see even these stable ecosystems

1189
01:47:01,125 --> 01:47:04,000
take a decline. Yeah, I think that's

1190
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:06,791
interesting observation, where you're

1191
01:47:06,791 --> 01:47:07,000
looking because we've seen this happen.

1192
01:47:07,000 --> 01:47:11,083
And other systems where you don't notice

1193
01:47:11,083 --> 01:47:13,833
it, you know, as a steady decline, but

1194
01:47:13,833 --> 01:47:15,208
then all of a sudden, you know,

1195
01:47:15,208 --> 01:47:18,291
population crashes or something happens,

1196
01:47:18,291 --> 01:47:20,083
you know, we don't know what's what's

1197
01:47:20,083 --> 01:47:21,000
going to happen if we

1198
01:47:21,000 --> 01:47:22,541
keep losing the prey.

1199
01:47:23,166 --> 01:47:24,750
And we keep seeing changes or changes in

1200
01:47:24,750 --> 01:47:26,416
the prey and changes in distribution of

1201
01:47:26,416 --> 01:47:29,666
that prey. So that that becomes a very

1202
01:47:29,666 --> 01:47:31,750
like it's almost like is that the

1203
01:47:31,750 --> 01:47:33,000
question is the North Atlantic becoming a predictor for the Pacific.

1204
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:37,750
Yeah, right. Right. That's the that's

1205
01:47:37,750 --> 01:47:38,916
what I that's what I'm kind of getting

1206
01:47:38,916 --> 01:47:40,500
out of it. I'm like, oh, gosh, is this

1207
01:47:40,500 --> 01:47:44,083
something that we have to be careful of,

1208
01:47:44,083 --> 01:47:45,708
you know, in the in the Pacific because

1209
01:47:45,708 --> 01:47:46,958
we don't want to we obviously want to

1210
01:47:46,958 --> 01:47:47,791
help in the North Atlantic,

1211
01:47:47,791 --> 01:47:49,416
which we'll get to in a bit.

1212
01:47:49,416 --> 01:47:51,083
But then, you know, we look at the

1213
01:47:51,083 --> 01:47:52,666
Pacific and it might be going through the

1214
01:47:52,666 --> 01:47:56,125
precursor of these declines. I think that

1215
01:47:56,125 --> 01:47:59,375
that's, you know, potentially fair to say

1216
01:47:59,375 --> 01:48:01,000
that these these regions where we're seeing.

1217
01:48:02,000 --> 01:48:05,333
Marked declines in breeding productivity

1218
01:48:05,333 --> 01:48:08,083
could very easily be in the future for

1219
01:48:08,083 --> 01:48:08,875
places where it's

1220
01:48:08,875 --> 01:48:10,833
currently stable. Right.

1221
01:48:12,333 --> 01:48:13,291
Now, I know there were other with their

1222
01:48:13,291 --> 01:48:14,958
other observations. I know that was like

1223
01:48:14,958 --> 01:48:17,625
the like a big one, obviously. Were there

1224
01:48:17,625 --> 01:48:19,083
other observations that you found like

1225
01:48:19,083 --> 01:48:21,500
other key findings? Yeah. So another

1226
01:48:21,500 --> 01:48:23,333
thing that we were really interested in

1227
01:48:23,333 --> 01:48:26,833
is like, okay, so stepping back some

1228
01:48:26,833 --> 01:48:28,458
places, seabirds are in decline. Some

1229
01:48:28,458 --> 01:48:29,000
places their productivity is more stable.

1230
01:48:29,000 --> 01:48:37,166
Why is that? Yeah, what's causing that?

1231
01:48:37,541 --> 01:48:40,041
We know that these, like I said before,

1232
01:48:40,041 --> 01:48:41,958
like these ecosystems are structured

1233
01:48:41,958 --> 01:48:44,416
differently. Some of them are driven by

1234
01:48:44,416 --> 01:48:46,583
multi decadal trends. Some of them may be

1235
01:48:46,583 --> 01:48:48,333
driven by freshwater input. Some of them

1236
01:48:48,333 --> 01:48:50,166
may be driven by fishing impacts or

1237
01:48:50,166 --> 01:48:52,000
something like that. You know, they're

1238
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:55,166
different in many ways. But is there some

1239
01:48:55,166 --> 01:48:57,000
sort of factor that can easily easily be driven by freshwater impacts?

1240
01:48:57,000 --> 01:49:00,708
Can easily easily explain these

1241
01:49:00,708 --> 01:49:02,000
differences in seabird breeding

1242
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:05,208
productivity trends. And one of the

1243
01:49:05,208 --> 01:49:07,666
things that we looked at was just what's

1244
01:49:07,666 --> 01:49:10,458
the prey composition look like across

1245
01:49:10,458 --> 01:49:13,083
these different ecosystems, knowing that

1246
01:49:13,083 --> 01:49:17,875
having food to feed your yourself as a

1247
01:49:17,875 --> 01:49:20,583
seabird parent and precondition your body

1248
01:49:20,583 --> 01:49:22,583
for a successful reproductive cycle.

1249
01:49:23,333 --> 01:49:25,875
And having the food to be able to feed

1250
01:49:25,875 --> 01:49:28,375
your chicks so that they can successfully

1251
01:49:28,375 --> 01:49:30,333
fledge and make it through their first

1252
01:49:30,333 --> 01:49:33,000
year. That's critically important. We

1253
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:33,916
know the prey is super

1254
01:49:33,916 --> 01:49:35,000
important during this period.

1255
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:42,208
So we we did a deep dive into documenting

1256
01:49:42,208 --> 01:49:46,708
what are the top types of prey for each

1257
01:49:46,708 --> 01:49:49,666
colony, each bird at each colony across

1258
01:49:49,666 --> 01:49:55,541
all 138 data sets. And when we compare

1259
01:49:55,541 --> 01:49:59,708
the prey community that is relied upon

1260
01:49:59,708 --> 01:50:00,583
across these different

1261
01:50:00,583 --> 01:50:02,000
seven ecosystems, we saw that

1262
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:07,416
the northern the North Atlantic, the

1263
01:50:07,416 --> 01:50:09,208
Northwest Atlantic, the northern European

1264
01:50:09,208 --> 01:50:11,625
seas and the Arctic tend to have lower

1265
01:50:11,625 --> 01:50:15,625
prey diversity compared to the Pacific

1266
01:50:15,625 --> 01:50:18,750
where we see sort of more more diverse

1267
01:50:18,750 --> 01:50:20,000
prey on which seabirds are relying.

1268
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:25,500
And we that's kind of important to know

1269
01:50:25,500 --> 01:50:28,000
because if if we're seeing like, okay,

1270
01:50:28,291 --> 01:50:29,791
these places where we've got a lot of

1271
01:50:29,791 --> 01:50:31,666
diverse prey where seabirds have a

1272
01:50:31,666 --> 01:50:33,750
portfolio of options to potentially

1273
01:50:33,750 --> 01:50:36,000
choose from potentially prey switching within a particular species.

1274
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:42,375
Something about having a really diverse

1275
01:50:42,375 --> 01:50:47,083
prey available makes that that ecosystem

1276
01:50:47,083 --> 01:50:50,166
less vulnerable to sort of shift climate

1277
01:50:50,166 --> 01:50:54,041
induced shifts at the predator level. In

1278
01:50:54,041 --> 01:50:56,291
places like northern Europe where there's

1279
01:50:56,291 --> 01:50:58,666
much, you know, seabirds are relying on

1280
01:50:58,666 --> 01:51:00,000
all the same couple species to support their colonies.

1281
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:04,958
Yeah. In particular, you know, sand lance

1282
01:51:04,958 --> 01:51:09,708
is one one forage fish that we see being

1283
01:51:09,708 --> 01:51:14,625
like, really important for many for many

1284
01:51:14,625 --> 01:51:17,166
seabirds species. When sand lance goes

1285
01:51:17,166 --> 01:51:19,208
down, then that affects a lot of

1286
01:51:19,208 --> 01:51:21,291
different northern European seabirds. So

1287
01:51:21,291 --> 01:51:22,833
there's this one link in

1288
01:51:22,833 --> 01:51:24,333
the chain being pulled up.

1289
01:51:24,875 --> 01:51:26,666
That's interesting. That's so

1290
01:51:26,666 --> 01:51:29,000
interesting. Are there I mean, we're looking at different species, but I think that's a good thing.

1291
01:51:29,333 --> 01:51:30,583
I mean, we're looking at two like

1292
01:51:30,583 --> 01:51:36,958
significantly different habitats in like

1293
01:51:36,958 --> 01:51:38,875
north, north Atlantic and Pacific.

1294
01:51:40,625 --> 01:51:43,083
Are there still similar food sources like

1295
01:51:43,083 --> 01:51:45,000
similar food, like prey species that are

1296
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:46,125
similar between the Pacific and the

1297
01:51:46,125 --> 01:51:47,333
North. Are they quite different?

1298
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:51,166
Yeah. So I think that's a good question.

1299
01:51:52,791 --> 01:51:55,458
So they are different species, but I

1300
01:51:55,458 --> 01:51:56,666
think you can kind of like group them

1301
01:51:56,666 --> 01:51:58,916
into being OK. Yeah, there's there. There

1302
01:51:58,916 --> 01:52:01,333
are lots of sort of small silvery fish

1303
01:52:01,333 --> 01:52:03,375
that you rely on. Right.

1304
01:52:04,541 --> 01:52:05,541
Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense.

1305
01:52:05,541 --> 01:52:07,083
The species may be different, but yeah,

1306
01:52:07,083 --> 01:52:08,666
they're all kind of like generally the

1307
01:52:08,666 --> 01:52:10,500
same thing. Small silvery fish that you

1308
01:52:10,500 --> 01:52:13,208
can fit in your bill. Gotcha. Are they

1309
01:52:13,208 --> 01:52:16,958
affected by, you know, some are more

1310
01:52:16,958 --> 01:52:18,833
maybe some of those prey species are just

1311
01:52:18,833 --> 01:52:19,000
a little bit more stable.

1312
01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:21,125
I'm thinking like, you know, in the

1313
01:52:21,125 --> 01:52:24,916
Pacific, I think it's like anchovies and

1314
01:52:24,916 --> 01:52:28,750
sardines are doing very fairly well. Is

1315
01:52:28,750 --> 01:52:30,375
that my understanding or am I is the

1316
01:52:30,375 --> 01:52:32,041
opposite now? I remember there's a big

1317
01:52:32,041 --> 01:52:33,875
management practice in the especially in

1318
01:52:33,875 --> 01:52:36,166
California for those for those fisheries.

1319
01:52:36,166 --> 01:52:37,250
And they're I think they're trying to

1320
01:52:37,250 --> 01:52:40,041
stabilize or even they're growing. Please

1321
01:52:40,041 --> 01:52:42,000
clarify. I'm trying to think it off my

1322
01:52:42,000 --> 01:52:44,125
head. No, that's okay. So yeah. So

1323
01:52:44,125 --> 01:52:45,958
sardine and anchovy have been alternating

1324
01:52:45,958 --> 01:52:48,583
for OK for many periods.

1325
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:51,875
And the state has tried to work that into

1326
01:52:51,875 --> 01:52:53,958
its management strategies. Gotcha. That's

1327
01:52:53,958 --> 01:52:55,750
OK. If we know one's up and maybe we

1328
01:52:55,750 --> 01:52:57,083
don't hit the other one so hard or

1329
01:52:57,083 --> 01:53:00,833
something like that. Right. There's there

1330
01:53:00,833 --> 01:53:02,583
is basically just more prey

1331
01:53:02,583 --> 01:53:04,166
redundancy in the Pacific.

1332
01:53:05,041 --> 01:53:08,166
Rather than it just being sand plants and

1333
01:53:08,166 --> 01:53:10,958
two or three other species, it's like a

1334
01:53:10,958 --> 01:53:13,791
dozen different forage fish and then it's

1335
01:53:13,791 --> 01:53:16,875
zooplankton and then it's invertebrates

1336
01:53:16,875 --> 01:53:20,166
that can be relied on by, of course, you

1337
01:53:20,166 --> 01:53:21,666
know, different species specialize on

1338
01:53:21,666 --> 01:53:23,166
different seabirds specialize on

1339
01:53:23,166 --> 01:53:25,458
different prey. But I have a big

1340
01:53:25,458 --> 01:53:27,500
ecosystem scale. There's a lot more prey

1341
01:53:27,500 --> 01:53:29,416
redundancy in the Pacific than there is

1342
01:53:29,416 --> 01:53:32,458
in the North Atlantic. And we think

1343
01:53:32,458 --> 01:53:33,166
that's a big part of

1344
01:53:33,166 --> 01:53:34,250
explaining what's going on.

1345
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:37,291
Yeah. So having a more diverse sort of

1346
01:53:37,291 --> 01:53:40,125
meal ticket, I guess, or menu for these

1347
01:53:40,125 --> 01:53:42,666
for these predators, the better it is,

1348
01:53:42,666 --> 01:53:44,458
the more stable those colonies would be.

1349
01:53:44,916 --> 01:53:46,458
I guess, right? Yeah. They have a more

1350
01:53:46,458 --> 01:53:49,375
diverse portfolio to pull from. So when

1351
01:53:49,375 --> 01:53:52,958
when things get really hot or really warm

1352
01:53:52,958 --> 01:53:55,083
or really stratified or or whatever it

1353
01:53:55,083 --> 01:53:58,000
is, that's driving change in the

1354
01:53:58,000 --> 01:54:00,166
ecosystem. There's just more diversity to

1355
01:54:00,166 --> 01:54:01,666
pull from and to to lean on.

1356
01:54:02,416 --> 01:54:05,208
Got you. So we've kind of covered in a

1357
01:54:05,208 --> 01:54:09,000
way diversity is being very important for

1358
01:54:09,000 --> 01:54:10,583
the stability of these colonies.

1359
01:54:12,666 --> 01:54:14,500
Obviously, I assume what's happening is

1360
01:54:14,500 --> 01:54:16,000
in North Atlantic. You're not seeing as

1361
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:18,500
much diversity or the diversity is being

1362
01:54:18,500 --> 01:54:20,500
affected by what's happening in terms of

1363
01:54:20,500 --> 01:54:23,333
stratification and warming and and

1364
01:54:23,333 --> 01:54:24,833
shifting. Is that is

1365
01:54:24,833 --> 01:54:26,333
that what you found in that?

1366
01:54:27,333 --> 01:54:31,708
And the big difference. Yeah. So so we're

1367
01:54:31,708 --> 01:54:35,333
seeing that, you know, in places where

1368
01:54:35,333 --> 01:54:38,583
there is greater prey diversity, there is

1369
01:54:38,583 --> 01:54:40,541
less of a response to warming, there's

1370
01:54:40,541 --> 01:54:42,500
less of a response to stratification, and

1371
01:54:42,500 --> 01:54:45,458
there's less of an overall trend in

1372
01:54:45,458 --> 01:54:47,958
breeding productivity, which tells us

1373
01:54:47,958 --> 01:54:50,166
basically like these systems are more

1374
01:54:50,166 --> 01:54:52,541
resilient. And we think it has to do with

1375
01:54:52,541 --> 01:54:54,000
the community of prey available.

1376
01:54:54,000 --> 01:54:56,083
So diversity is the meal ticket,

1377
01:54:56,500 --> 01:54:58,375
literally. Yeah. Yeah. Keeping these

1378
01:54:58,375 --> 01:55:01,541
these colonies stable. So from this

1379
01:55:01,541 --> 01:55:03,708
perspective, like identifying them is one

1380
01:55:03,708 --> 01:55:05,875
thing and identifying the reasoning that

1381
01:55:05,875 --> 01:55:08,875
could be this what's stable. Like how how

1382
01:55:09,000 --> 01:55:16,875
confident is this like this? What you

1383
01:55:16,875 --> 01:55:18,750
found here in terms of diversity? Like is

1384
01:55:18,750 --> 01:55:20,916
it pretty significant where the the more

1385
01:55:20,916 --> 01:55:22,583
diverse area, the better the colony?

1386
01:55:24,166 --> 01:55:28,958
I think this is like this is a very big

1387
01:55:28,958 --> 01:55:31,291
picture taken at what we think might

1388
01:55:31,291 --> 01:55:34,291
explain what's going on. It's not very

1389
01:55:34,291 --> 01:55:37,750
mechanistic in terms of saying this is

1390
01:55:37,750 --> 01:55:40,333
exactly what drives right particular

1391
01:55:40,333 --> 01:55:42,791
seabird species decline. Right.

1392
01:55:43,000 --> 01:55:44,833
And this is one of the like cool things

1393
01:55:44,833 --> 01:55:46,833
about science in general, I think is that

1394
01:55:46,833 --> 01:55:48,708
you get to like pick the scale that

1395
01:55:48,708 --> 01:55:50,958
you're going to look at a question. And

1396
01:55:50,958 --> 01:55:52,375
you can't look at everything

1397
01:55:52,375 --> 01:55:54,666
at the same scale all at once.

1398
01:55:55,291 --> 01:55:57,458
Like there, there are certain reasons why

1399
01:55:57,458 --> 01:55:58,625
you might want to take a big picture

1400
01:55:58,625 --> 01:55:59,958
scale. And then there are certain reasons

1401
01:55:59,958 --> 01:56:02,000
why you really want to look at a narrow

1402
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:03,916
example and understand the exact

1403
01:56:03,916 --> 01:56:05,041
mechanism behind that.

1404
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:08,250
So, you know, we're we're looking at

1405
01:56:08,250 --> 01:56:10,583
these really big picture trends, but

1406
01:56:10,583 --> 01:56:12,333
there's a lot of important research that

1407
01:56:12,333 --> 01:56:15,125
still has yet to be done linking, you

1408
01:56:15,125 --> 01:56:18,958
know, what is it about diet diversity and

1409
01:56:18,958 --> 01:56:22,916
prey switching for these species across

1410
01:56:22,916 --> 01:56:25,500
different locations that may or may not

1411
01:56:25,500 --> 01:56:28,333
be impacted by the sort of climate and

1412
01:56:28,333 --> 01:56:29,500
environmental conditions

1413
01:56:29,500 --> 01:56:31,375
when the birds are breeding.

1414
01:56:32,375 --> 01:56:34,125
And there's a lot of great data that

1415
01:56:34,125 --> 01:56:36,125
these researchers collect on these

1416
01:56:36,125 --> 01:56:37,916
colonies on diet. So that's something

1417
01:56:37,916 --> 01:56:38,916
that we hope to do in the future.

1418
01:56:39,625 --> 01:56:41,416
And it makes I mean, it makes more

1419
01:56:41,416 --> 01:56:44,416
diverse area you have the better it is,

1420
01:56:44,416 --> 01:56:46,333
you know, the more stable your ecosystem

1421
01:56:46,333 --> 01:56:49,000
is from top predator down to the smallest

1422
01:56:49,000 --> 01:56:52,000
of of of minute organism that's at the

1423
01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:53,000
bottom of the food chain.

1424
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:55,125
And I think that's that's an important

1425
01:56:55,125 --> 01:56:56,958
thing. And I'm glad you mentioned scale

1426
01:56:56,958 --> 01:56:59,708
because yes, that's absolutely important

1427
01:56:59,708 --> 01:57:02,666
because, you know, we like you just sent

1428
01:57:02,666 --> 01:57:04,541
the paper before that led to that.

1429
01:57:04,791 --> 01:57:05,916
One of the reasons why it led to this

1430
01:57:05,916 --> 01:57:07,583
paper was it would look at hemispheres

1431
01:57:07,583 --> 01:57:08,958
and look at there's an hemisphere. Now

1432
01:57:08,958 --> 01:57:11,083
you're looking within hemispheres, maybe

1433
01:57:11,083 --> 01:57:13,875
like dive, like comparing between between

1434
01:57:13,875 --> 01:57:15,333
two to different types of oceans in the

1435
01:57:15,333 --> 01:57:16,000
northern hemisphere.

1436
01:57:16,416 --> 01:57:17,625
Obviously very important, but you can

1437
01:57:17,625 --> 01:57:20,541
dive even deeper into those and go down

1438
01:57:20,541 --> 01:57:21,708
in scale and scale, which

1439
01:57:21,708 --> 01:57:23,250
you'll probably get more.

1440
01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:27,166
I guess like it'll just get more niche as

1441
01:57:27,166 --> 01:57:29,166
you get down and those types of answers

1442
01:57:29,166 --> 01:57:30,166
and answering more

1443
01:57:30,166 --> 01:57:31,541
questions and so forth.

1444
01:57:32,333 --> 01:57:35,000
From from this perspective, for my

1445
01:57:35,000 --> 01:57:37,875
audience, what do you want people to get

1446
01:57:37,875 --> 01:57:40,000
out of this? Like what what is the take

1447
01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:43,333
home message for this paper? When it

1448
01:57:43,333 --> 01:57:44,833
comes to like people who listen to early

1449
01:57:44,833 --> 01:57:47,083
career scientists, non scientists, what

1450
01:57:47,083 --> 01:57:49,000
what's the message you you and your co

1451
01:57:49,000 --> 01:57:51,458
authors want to like the 50 some co

1452
01:57:51,458 --> 01:57:53,333
authors want to want

1453
01:57:53,333 --> 01:57:54,000
you to get out of this?

1454
01:57:54,000 --> 01:57:57,833
Yeah, I think, yeah, you know, there's a

1455
01:57:57,833 --> 01:57:59,125
there's a few messages

1456
01:57:59,125 --> 01:58:02,875
related to the scale point.

1457
01:58:04,083 --> 01:58:07,666
It's kind of remarkable that looking at

1458
01:58:07,666 --> 01:58:11,583
this huge scale, the whole ecosystem,

1459
01:58:12,375 --> 01:58:15,958
like multiple countries, coastlines, we

1460
01:58:15,958 --> 01:58:20,500
can see a detectable response to climate

1461
01:58:20,500 --> 01:58:23,500
over decades across a whole

1462
01:58:23,500 --> 01:58:25,458
diverse top predator community.

1463
01:58:26,000 --> 01:58:28,583
Like that's pretty remarkable. Yeah.

1464
01:58:29,041 --> 01:58:30,750
Normally for something like this, like

1465
01:58:30,750 --> 01:58:32,791
where there's so many different species

1466
01:58:32,791 --> 01:58:36,083
and so many different colonies, like

1467
01:58:36,083 --> 01:58:38,166
that's that's very noisy. You would

1468
01:58:38,166 --> 01:58:41,041
expect the noise to drown out the signal.

1469
01:58:42,166 --> 01:58:44,791
But we're actually seeing that like there

1470
01:58:44,791 --> 01:58:46,875
is sort of a risk, a climate driven

1471
01:58:46,875 --> 01:58:49,875
signal in the breeding productivity of

1472
01:58:49,875 --> 01:58:52,291
these birds at these huge scales. And

1473
01:58:52,291 --> 01:58:53,750
that tells us something really important

1474
01:58:53,750 --> 01:58:56,958
about climate change that tells us that

1475
01:58:56,958 --> 01:58:59,583
we're seeing huge ecosystem scale effects

1476
01:58:59,583 --> 01:59:01,666
because of our changing

1477
01:59:01,666 --> 01:59:03,083
climate at this point.

1478
01:59:03,500 --> 01:59:03,916
That's remarkable.

1479
01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:10,208
So I think, you know, one thing is, you

1480
01:59:10,208 --> 01:59:12,791
know, what do we do with that? Well,

1481
01:59:13,083 --> 01:59:15,791
like, there's a lot that we can do about

1482
01:59:15,791 --> 01:59:18,625
climate change broadly, thinking

1483
01:59:18,625 --> 01:59:21,500
specifically about seabirds and top

1484
01:59:21,500 --> 01:59:24,125
predators, I would encourage people to

1485
01:59:24,125 --> 01:59:26,708
spend time learning about these

1486
01:59:26,708 --> 01:59:30,375
organisms, because it's, it's very easy

1487
01:59:30,375 --> 01:59:33,458
for these losses and these changes to be

1488
01:59:33,458 --> 01:59:34,000
out of sight, out of mind when you don't have to be able to do that.

1489
01:59:34,000 --> 01:59:35,750
Out of mind when you don't have any idea

1490
01:59:35,750 --> 01:59:38,583
what these species are. And because

1491
01:59:38,583 --> 01:59:40,500
seabirds spend so much of their lives at

1492
01:59:40,500 --> 01:59:43,250
sea, like, they're, they're in some ways

1493
01:59:43,250 --> 01:59:45,625
very distant from our like, you know,

1494
01:59:46,250 --> 01:59:48,958
daily experience, but they're amazing.

1495
01:59:49,416 --> 01:59:51,291
They're worth learning about. So I

1496
01:59:51,291 --> 01:59:53,208
encourage people to spend some time

1497
01:59:53,208 --> 01:59:55,333
learning about what these organisms are,

1498
01:59:55,333 --> 01:59:58,333
how they make a living. And I think that

1499
01:59:58,333 --> 02:00:01,125
kind of knowledge acquisition can be an

1500
02:00:01,125 --> 02:00:02,500
important response to

1501
02:00:02,500 --> 02:00:03,000
these, these big messages.

1502
02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:06,166
About how climate change is altering our

1503
02:00:06,166 --> 02:00:10,541
world. Another thing, though, you know,

1504
02:00:10,541 --> 02:00:12,875
big takeaway from this paper was that

1505
02:00:12,875 --> 02:00:15,083
prey diversity seems to be associated

1506
02:00:15,083 --> 02:00:17,041
with greater ecosystem scale

1507
02:00:17,041 --> 02:00:20,125
stability in light of climate.

1508
02:00:21,750 --> 02:00:23,291
And what that tells us is that it's

1509
02:00:23,291 --> 02:00:25,666
important to when you have

1510
02:00:25,666 --> 02:00:27,250
that diversity to conserve it.

1511
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:30,916
So there's all kinds of techniques that

1512
02:00:30,916 --> 02:00:32,500
fisheries managers are learning about

1513
02:00:32,500 --> 02:00:35,416
related to ecosystem based fisheries

1514
02:00:35,416 --> 02:00:38,541
management, taking those incorporating

1515
02:00:38,541 --> 02:00:41,666
those kinds of policies, taking the

1516
02:00:41,666 --> 02:00:44,125
ecosystem into account when we're, we're

1517
02:00:44,125 --> 02:00:46,708
making fisheries decisions about how many

1518
02:00:46,708 --> 02:00:48,500
of these forage fish that we know other

1519
02:00:48,500 --> 02:00:49,625
predators rely on how

1520
02:00:49,625 --> 02:00:50,750
many should we be taking out.

1521
02:00:51,458 --> 02:00:53,083
Those are important considerations that

1522
02:00:53,083 --> 02:00:54,125
need to come into play.

1523
02:00:56,875 --> 02:01:01,375
And then the last thing is just that kind

1524
02:01:01,375 --> 02:01:03,791
of the importance of these data sets in

1525
02:01:03,791 --> 02:01:07,041
general, like we're only able to see this

1526
02:01:07,041 --> 02:01:09,583
signal popping out because of the

1527
02:01:09,583 --> 02:01:12,500
tireless dedication of these, you know,

1528
02:01:13,041 --> 02:01:15,541
many, many, many researchers, and there

1529
02:01:15,541 --> 02:01:18,125
are many, many unnamed interns who are

1530
02:01:18,125 --> 02:01:20,000
involved in collecting this data.

1531
02:01:20,000 --> 02:01:22,208
Like, that's the only reason that we're

1532
02:01:22,208 --> 02:01:24,250
able to tell this story and to see these

1533
02:01:24,250 --> 02:01:27,333
signals and to make these claims. So

1534
02:01:27,333 --> 02:01:30,083
this, like the long term monitoring

1535
02:01:30,083 --> 02:01:33,708
someone somewhere decided to fund someone

1536
02:01:33,708 --> 02:01:35,583
to go collect data on a

1537
02:01:35,583 --> 02:01:36,958
remote island for decades.

1538
02:01:38,000 --> 02:01:40,708
That is so important that we continue to

1539
02:01:40,708 --> 02:01:43,125
do that, especially for these places that

1540
02:01:43,125 --> 02:01:45,291
have these long term records, we got to

1541
02:01:45,291 --> 02:01:47,166
continue those records, we got to

1542
02:01:47,166 --> 02:01:48,208
continue collecting data.

1543
02:01:49,250 --> 02:01:50,250
And then the other thing we need to do is

1544
02:01:50,250 --> 02:01:52,166
we need to go collect more data in places

1545
02:01:52,166 --> 02:01:55,125
that are underrepresented. So we know

1546
02:01:55,125 --> 02:01:57,208
looking at the southern hemisphere. Part

1547
02:01:57,208 --> 02:01:58,208
of the reason we chose the northern

1548
02:01:58,208 --> 02:01:59,916
hemisphere is because there's just vastly

1549
02:01:59,916 --> 02:02:02,125
more data across

1550
02:02:02,125 --> 02:02:03,416
across different ecosystems.

1551
02:02:04,000 --> 02:02:05,625
If you look to the southern hemisphere,

1552
02:02:05,625 --> 02:02:06,916
there's places where there's lots of

1553
02:02:06,916 --> 02:02:09,291
data, and then there's vast expanses of

1554
02:02:09,291 --> 02:02:11,125
space where we don't have many records,

1555
02:02:11,791 --> 02:02:13,125
right? You need to go to those places and

1556
02:02:13,125 --> 02:02:16,583
get information about how ecosystems and

1557
02:02:16,583 --> 02:02:18,291
species are faring in those places.

1558
02:02:19,291 --> 02:02:20,250
Yeah, because it's interesting, you know,

1559
02:02:20,250 --> 02:02:21,416
you mentioned at the beginning, the other

1560
02:02:21,416 --> 02:02:23,541
study, the initial study that that kind

1561
02:02:23,541 --> 02:02:25,291
of was the precursor to this one

1562
02:02:25,291 --> 02:02:27,500
mentioned that southern hemisphere isn't

1563
02:02:27,500 --> 02:02:29,708
seeing the as big of impact.

1564
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:32,375
But that may not be true just based off

1565
02:02:32,375 --> 02:02:33,791
the data that we have. If we have more

1566
02:02:33,791 --> 02:02:36,416
data, we might identify areas that there

1567
02:02:36,416 --> 02:02:39,166
are more impact based on species that we

1568
02:02:39,166 --> 02:02:40,958
have. It's just a matter of funding,

1569
02:02:41,500 --> 02:02:42,625
getting people out there.

1570
02:02:43,500 --> 02:02:45,333
Monitoring is expensive. It's not it's

1571
02:02:45,333 --> 02:02:48,000
not cheap to do, but it's so important to

1572
02:02:48,000 --> 02:02:50,791
have. It allows us to feed our our

1573
02:02:50,791 --> 02:02:53,541
models, makes it more accurate and really

1574
02:02:53,541 --> 02:02:55,000
gets to tell us what we're doing.

1575
02:02:55,000 --> 02:02:56,583
And as you mentioned here, this is a case

1576
02:02:56,583 --> 02:02:59,916
in point where being able to have was 138

1577
02:02:59,916 --> 02:03:02,666
data sets set was that the number? Yeah,

1578
02:03:03,166 --> 02:03:07,041
138 data sets, 39 species to be able to

1579
02:03:07,041 --> 02:03:10,416
look at for over decades and and and

1580
02:03:10,416 --> 02:03:12,875
having one metric that you can really

1581
02:03:12,875 --> 02:03:14,583
focus on that's measured the same way

1582
02:03:14,583 --> 02:03:16,541
across those data sets is extremely

1583
02:03:16,541 --> 02:03:17,833
important to be able to come to these

1584
02:03:17,833 --> 02:03:19,833
conclusions and be able to identify some

1585
02:03:19,833 --> 02:03:21,416
hot spots to monitor even

1586
02:03:21,416 --> 02:03:23,000
more and dive into even deeper.

1587
02:03:23,000 --> 02:03:25,833
So this is this is absolutely amazing.

1588
02:03:25,833 --> 02:03:27,125
Obviously, we don't like the results. We

1589
02:03:27,125 --> 02:03:29,500
want to see better results in time, but

1590
02:03:29,500 --> 02:03:31,708
we can't see it unless we we figure that

1591
02:03:31,708 --> 02:03:32,750
out. And that's what this study

1592
02:03:32,750 --> 02:03:35,333
highlights. And I do appreciate the work

1593
02:03:35,333 --> 02:03:37,291
that you and your colleagues have done to

1594
02:03:37,291 --> 02:03:39,250
be able to highlight this for us and

1595
02:03:39,250 --> 02:03:40,583
coming on the podcast to be

1596
02:03:40,583 --> 02:03:41,000
able to tell us all about.

1597
02:03:41,000 --> 02:03:43,958
It's been a pleasure to have you Helen on

1598
02:03:43,958 --> 02:03:46,916
on this podcast. And if you had one thing

1599
02:03:46,916 --> 02:03:49,166
that people can do, what would you

1600
02:03:49,166 --> 02:03:51,208
recommend like just to help in this kind

1601
02:03:51,208 --> 02:03:53,791
of situation? What would you say is the

1602
02:03:53,791 --> 02:03:56,500
one thing that people do? Not not to say

1603
02:03:56,500 --> 02:03:57,416
that we're going to be able to turn it

1604
02:03:57,416 --> 02:03:58,958
around with this, but like the starter

1605
02:03:58,958 --> 02:04:01,625
thing if people are not, you know, they

1606
02:04:01,625 --> 02:04:03,958
don't know seabirds that well or or even

1607
02:04:03,958 --> 02:04:04,750
conservation that well,

1608
02:04:04,750 --> 02:04:05,333
and they want to help.

1609
02:04:06,208 --> 02:04:07,000
Yeah.

1610
02:04:07,000 --> 02:04:12,875
Yeah. Um, well, it's a big, it's a big,

1611
02:04:13,125 --> 02:04:16,041
it is a big one. It is a big one. And

1612
02:04:16,041 --> 02:04:17,500
part of part of why it's difficult is

1613
02:04:17,500 --> 02:04:19,041
because the scale we've chosen like this

1614
02:04:19,041 --> 02:04:21,083
is like global scale. It's really hard

1615
02:04:21,083 --> 02:04:23,875
to. Yeah, it's really hard to see the

1616
02:04:23,875 --> 02:04:26,000
connection between an individual's action

1617
02:04:26,000 --> 02:04:27,000
and that global scale.

1618
02:04:27,000 --> 02:04:29,958
Like this is the problem in like, you

1619
02:04:29,958 --> 02:04:32,166
know, environmentalism broadly, like how

1620
02:04:32,166 --> 02:04:35,083
do we make these connections? Yeah. Um,

1621
02:04:35,083 --> 02:04:38,666
so I, I in some ways I like hesitate to

1622
02:04:38,666 --> 02:04:40,125
say this because I really hope it doesn't

1623
02:04:40,125 --> 02:04:44,500
sound like a cop out. But I, more and

1624
02:04:44,500 --> 02:04:46,833
more, I'm really believing that I think

1625
02:04:46,833 --> 02:04:50,458
it's just like so critical to spend time

1626
02:04:50,458 --> 02:04:54,500
learning about the organisms and the

1627
02:04:54,500 --> 02:04:56,000
environment that surrounds you.

1628
02:04:56,291 --> 02:05:00,666
As being like an active part of your

1629
02:05:00,666 --> 02:05:03,791
environmentalism. Yeah. So maybe you live

1630
02:05:03,791 --> 02:05:05,708
on the coast and you take some time to

1631
02:05:05,708 --> 02:05:07,333
learn more about these species that are

1632
02:05:07,333 --> 02:05:10,708
around you. You know, some of the in

1633
02:05:10,708 --> 02:05:12,625
Southern California, some of these

1634
02:05:12,625 --> 02:05:14,875
seabirds that we have monitoring programs

1635
02:05:14,875 --> 02:05:15,000
for and are included in this paper.

1636
02:05:15,000 --> 02:05:19,833
There's been like an enormous amount of

1637
02:05:19,833 --> 02:05:21,500
really important research looking at

1638
02:05:21,500 --> 02:05:23,625
like, for instance, like the history of

1639
02:05:23,625 --> 02:05:26,833
DDT and brown pelican populations, like

1640
02:05:26,833 --> 02:05:28,958
that's something that is like tangible

1641
02:05:28,958 --> 02:05:31,416
for an individual living in Southern

1642
02:05:31,416 --> 02:05:35,791
California to like to to learn about and

1643
02:05:35,791 --> 02:05:37,666
to try to understand and to try to be

1644
02:05:37,666 --> 02:05:40,083
involved in preventing those kinds of

1645
02:05:40,083 --> 02:05:41,708
things in the future or making

1646
02:05:41,708 --> 02:05:44,541
protections for these species. So, you

1647
02:05:44,541 --> 02:05:45,000
know, I think that's a really important thing.

1648
02:05:45,291 --> 02:05:47,166
Is every individual going to be able to

1649
02:05:47,166 --> 02:05:48,833
protect all of these species around the

1650
02:05:48,833 --> 02:05:51,500
world? No, but I think it's critical for

1651
02:05:51,500 --> 02:05:53,833
each of us to actually spend time

1652
02:05:53,833 --> 02:05:55,625
learning about the species that are

1653
02:05:55,625 --> 02:05:59,791
around us so that we can learn about what

1654
02:05:59,791 --> 02:06:00,500
conservation looks

1655
02:06:00,500 --> 02:06:02,583
like in our local areas.

1656
02:06:03,166 --> 02:06:03,375
Absolutely.

1657
02:06:03,375 --> 02:06:05,750
In our, in our states and our countries

1658
02:06:05,750 --> 02:06:06,833
and our provinces. So

1659
02:06:06,833 --> 02:06:08,750
yeah, it's what I have in mind.

1660
02:06:09,291 --> 02:06:10,958
Yeah, I agree. It's so important to know

1661
02:06:10,958 --> 02:06:12,250
the environment around you, whether

1662
02:06:12,250 --> 02:06:14,083
you're on the coast or not. There's great

1663
02:06:14,083 --> 02:06:15,625
apps like iNaturalist to be able to

1664
02:06:15,625 --> 02:06:17,666
identify like plant species and insects

1665
02:06:17,666 --> 02:06:20,458
and things like that that are around your

1666
02:06:20,458 --> 02:06:22,791
area that I find like once you're more in

1667
02:06:22,791 --> 02:06:25,541
tuned with that you start to notice the

1668
02:06:25,541 --> 02:06:28,791
just your surrounding environment more

1669
02:06:28,791 --> 02:06:30,000
and you notice if it's going up.

1670
02:06:30,000 --> 02:06:33,541
It leads you to be more curious, right?

1671
02:06:33,541 --> 02:06:34,791
And I'm sure just coming back to you

1672
02:06:34,791 --> 02:06:36,250
being a science teacher and just being

1673
02:06:36,250 --> 02:06:38,250
like, just be curious because that

1674
02:06:38,250 --> 02:06:41,166
that'll lead you down sort of like a

1675
02:06:41,166 --> 02:06:43,916
wormhole of learning more and more about

1676
02:06:43,916 --> 02:06:45,500
the environment and then

1677
02:06:45,500 --> 02:06:47,000
being more aware of it.

1678
02:06:47,000 --> 02:06:48,666
And I think a lot of the times the way we

1679
02:06:48,666 --> 02:06:50,375
live, especially here in North America,

1680
02:06:50,833 --> 02:06:52,916
we live in a very fast paced society

1681
02:06:52,916 --> 02:06:53,666
where we're just trying

1682
02:06:53,666 --> 02:06:54,000
to get to the next thing.

1683
02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:57,083
And we just kind of ignore what's around

1684
02:06:57,083 --> 02:06:59,083
us. And if you start to just look around,

1685
02:06:59,541 --> 02:07:01,333
there's apps, there's so many things like

1686
02:07:01,333 --> 02:07:02,458
even this, the

1687
02:07:02,458 --> 02:07:05,125
seabirds.feralandinstitute.org like going

1688
02:07:05,125 --> 02:07:06,416
to this, which I'll put in the show notes

1689
02:07:06,416 --> 02:07:07,666
and just learning about

1690
02:07:07,666 --> 02:07:08,833
seabirds and seeing these

1691
02:07:09,000 --> 02:07:11,375
and like the studies that are going on.

1692
02:07:11,916 --> 02:07:13,791
It's going to be educational for you.

1693
02:07:13,791 --> 02:07:14,833
We're going to learn a lot. And you're

1694
02:07:14,833 --> 02:07:16,458
going to come around with some pretty

1695
02:07:16,458 --> 02:07:19,333
cool things to talk at parties and talk

1696
02:07:19,333 --> 02:07:21,666
to people and, you know, introduce what

1697
02:07:21,666 --> 02:07:23,125
you're what you're learning. And I think

1698
02:07:23,125 --> 02:07:24,666
it's I think it's great. And I love the

1699
02:07:24,666 --> 02:07:25,916
fact that you're coming on this podcast

1700
02:07:25,916 --> 02:07:28,500
and and being a part of this and helping

1701
02:07:28,500 --> 02:07:30,208
people understand what's happening with

1702
02:07:30,208 --> 02:07:31,833
seabirds. So we'll definitely appreciate

1703
02:07:31,833 --> 02:07:33,291
you coming on. We'd love to have you back

1704
02:07:33,291 --> 02:07:34,750
to talk about more more things that

1705
02:07:34,750 --> 02:07:36,875
you're working on. Yeah, totally happy

1706
02:07:36,875 --> 02:07:37,833
to. It's been such a

1707
02:07:37,833 --> 02:07:38,000
pleasure, Andrew. Thank you.

1708
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:41,041
No problem. Thank you. Thank you, Helen,

1709
02:07:41,041 --> 02:07:42,958
for joining us on today's episode of the

1710
02:07:42,958 --> 02:07:44,791
How to Protect the Ocean podcast. It was

1711
02:07:44,791 --> 02:07:46,375
great to be able to talk to you about

1712
02:07:46,375 --> 02:07:49,000
just regular stuff about seabirds. I

1713
02:07:49,000 --> 02:07:50,958
don't get a lot of seabird experts on. It

1714
02:07:50,958 --> 02:07:52,916
was really great to see how you developed

1715
02:07:52,916 --> 02:07:55,000
your career, how you went from teaching

1716
02:07:55,000 --> 02:07:57,708
science to be able to use it to do

1717
02:07:57,708 --> 02:07:59,708
research and also to tell the stories

1718
02:07:59,708 --> 02:08:01,666
that she discovered with her colleagues

1719
02:08:01,666 --> 02:08:04,500
and with this massive project to look at

1720
02:08:04,500 --> 02:08:06,791
a very high overview of

1721
02:08:06,791 --> 02:08:07,000
what's happening with seabirds.

1722
02:08:07,000 --> 02:08:08,750
What's happening with seabirds and what

1723
02:08:08,750 --> 02:08:10,833
it's telling us about the ocean and its

1724
02:08:10,833 --> 02:08:12,083
health. I think it's something that's

1725
02:08:12,083 --> 02:08:14,125
extremely, extremely important. And I

1726
02:08:14,125 --> 02:08:16,541
also wanted to let people know that we

1727
02:08:16,541 --> 02:08:17,875
have that link that we talked about a

1728
02:08:17,875 --> 02:08:19,333
number of times during the interview.

1729
02:08:19,333 --> 02:08:22,916
It's seabirds dot Farallen Institute dot

1730
02:08:22,916 --> 02:08:24,791
org. And I will put that in the show

1731
02:08:24,791 --> 02:08:27,166
notes. Farallen or Farallon, I guess is

1732
02:08:27,166 --> 02:08:29,666
what is how it's pronounced this F a R a

1733
02:08:29,666 --> 02:08:32,125
L L O N and then Institute all one word.

1734
02:08:32,125 --> 02:08:34,583
So seabirds dot Farallon Institute dot

1735
02:08:34,583 --> 02:08:36,000
org. This is something that I think it's really great. We're going to talk about that.

1736
02:08:36,000 --> 02:08:37,583
I think it's really great website, very

1737
02:08:37,583 --> 02:08:39,125
interactive, kind of gives you the faces,

1738
02:08:39,125 --> 02:08:40,875
the names of the people that are doing

1739
02:08:40,875 --> 02:08:43,000
this type of work all about ocean

1740
02:08:43,000 --> 02:08:45,000
temperature stratification, how important

1741
02:08:45,000 --> 02:08:46,583
it is. It's going to be really great. And

1742
02:08:46,583 --> 02:08:48,583
I think we need to dive deeper into all

1743
02:08:48,583 --> 02:08:50,750
these studies. The locations of the study

1744
02:08:50,750 --> 02:08:52,333
sites and everything are on that website.

1745
02:08:52,333 --> 02:08:54,000
I think it's really important. Something

1746
02:08:54,000 --> 02:08:56,250
to check out seabirds dot Farallen

1747
02:08:56,250 --> 02:08:58,291
Institute dot org. We'll also put the

1748
02:08:58,291 --> 02:09:00,250
link to the actual paper so you can take

1749
02:09:00,250 --> 02:09:02,375
a look at that if you so desire. And I

1750
02:09:02,375 --> 02:09:03,958
want to thank Helen again for joining us

1751
02:09:03,958 --> 02:09:05,000
on the podcast. And if you have any

1752
02:09:05,000 --> 02:09:06,000
questions or comments, let us know.

1753
02:09:06,000 --> 02:09:08,083
About seabirds or about this study,

1754
02:09:08,083 --> 02:09:10,000
please let us know. You can put your

1755
02:09:10,000 --> 02:09:12,166
comments in the comments section below if

1756
02:09:12,166 --> 02:09:13,125
you're watching this on YouTube. If

1757
02:09:13,125 --> 02:09:14,625
you're listening to this through audio on

1758
02:09:14,625 --> 02:09:15,916
your favorite podcast app, you can

1759
02:09:15,916 --> 02:09:17,500
contact me in a number of different ways.

1760
02:09:17,500 --> 02:09:19,708
But go to Instagram at how to protect the

1761
02:09:19,708 --> 02:09:21,958
ocean. Just DM me at how to protect the

1762
02:09:21,958 --> 02:09:24,125
ocean or go to speak up for blue dot com

1763
02:09:24,125 --> 02:09:25,958
forward slash contact and just fill out

1764
02:09:25,958 --> 02:09:27,333
the form and go straight to my email. I'd

1765
02:09:27,333 --> 02:09:28,875
love to hear from you. I want to thank

1766
02:09:28,875 --> 02:09:30,791
you all for joining us and supporting us

1767
02:09:30,791 --> 02:09:32,666
throughout this entire time. Ten years

1768
02:09:32,666 --> 02:09:34,833
over ten years of doing this podcast.

1769
02:09:35,000 --> 02:09:36,833
It's something that's very special to me

1770
02:09:36,833 --> 02:09:38,375
and I hope it's special to you as you

1771
02:09:38,375 --> 02:09:40,791
grow and listen to this podcast. I really

1772
02:09:40,791 --> 02:09:43,333
do appreciate you listening and having

1773
02:09:43,333 --> 02:09:45,208
questions and engaging. It's always a lot

1774
02:09:45,208 --> 02:09:46,791
of fun. So thank you so much for joining

1775
02:09:46,791 --> 02:09:48,458
me on this episode of the how to protect

1776
02:09:48,458 --> 02:09:49,875
the ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew

1777
02:09:49,875 --> 02:09:51,416
Lewin from the true North strong and

1778
02:09:51,416 --> 02:09:52,750
free. Have a great day. We'll talk to you

1779
02:09:52,750 --> 02:09:54,166
next time and happy conservation.