What’s behind your canned tuna? The shocking truth supermarkets never tell you

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What's behind your canned tuna?

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Now think about this.

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You open a can of tuna for lunch.

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It seems cheap, safe and simple.

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I mean, we all know it has high protein,
great for fatty acids and low fats,

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so it's a really good healthy meal.

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But behind many of the supermarket tuna
brands, there are hidden stories of

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human exploitation, environmental damage,

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and supply chains that
stretch far out to sea.

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Today we're gonna answer the
question, what's behind your tuna?

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We're gonna go over a Financial Times
article that was done, an investigative

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report that was done on the tuna
industry and the human costs, as

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well as the environmental costs, and
of course, the supply change costs.

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We're gonna talk about that
on today's episode of the How

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to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, marine
biologist and science communicator, and

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I'm here to tell you what's happening
with the ocean, how you can speak up for

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the ocean, and what you can do to live
for a better ocean by taking action.

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And on today's episode, we're
gonna be talking about what is

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behind your supermarket tuna.

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The tuna that you buy, you may buy
on a regular basis, you may not.

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If you're on a health kick and you
wanna pump up that protein for, you

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know, not as many calories and you
don't want to have chicken all the time.

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Seafood is a great option,
especially when it's sustainable.

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But the problem is we just don't think
about what goes behind catching that

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fish and that supply chain and who's
catching that fish, what they go through.

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So we're gonna talk all about that.

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Before we do though, something else we
don't talk a lot about is seagrasses.

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Now I know if you've listened
to this podcast before.

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You've heard me talk about
sea grasses, a coastal habitat

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that is huge for biodiversity.

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Also to help reduce climate
change by absorbing carbon

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dioxide on a regular basis.

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It is such a huge absorber, like a
carbon sink we call it, of carbon

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dioxide and greenhouse gases.

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Something that is very important to
our coastal systems, not only for

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reducing climate change, but because
of it adds a lot of biodiversity.

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It nurtures young fish and invertebrates
so they can go off to other habitats.

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It's such an important seagrass or
such an important coastal habitat

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that we don't talk about that
much, which is boggles my mind.

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Talk a lot about coral reefs,
not a lot about seagrasses.

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So what I am doing, I am
putting a crowdfunding campaign

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together to talk about seagrass.

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It's gonna be a podcast
called The Seagrass Effect.

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If you go to speak up for
blue.com/seagrass, you'll be able to

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help and donate to support the launch
and the maintenance of that podcast.

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You can pretty much donate
whatever you would like.

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It's with Balean.

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We've teamed up with the Balean
Foundation to be able to put together

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these ocean projects, and it's
really helpful to get your help

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and get your backing behind that.

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Go to speak up for blue.com/seagrass.

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Now let's talk about the
story that opened the door.

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So the Financial Times ran this
investigation into a supermarket

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tuna and their supply chains.

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So not just looking at like, Hey,
these are the different brands

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and they're sustainable or not.

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It's actually going back and looking
at the brands and almost reverse

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engineering how the fish gets into
the can and into the supermarket.

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So where are all the middle people?

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Where are all the businesses involved?

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Who's catching it?

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How are they being caught?

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What's happening to the people who
are catching it, the fishermen,

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the fishers who are catching them?

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How far out to sea do they have to go?

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Are they observed a lot?

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Are they monitored?

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What's going on?

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They talk all about that.

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But this report focused on a single
fisherman named Deby Putra Bunanda.

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Now, he spent seven months at sea catching
tuna that was destined for retail shelves.

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But when he returned home after that
seven months, he could barely walk

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more than a few steps at a time,
and he had difficulty speaking.

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What the heck went on?

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Now, the story highlights
the harsh working conditions

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on some of the tuna fleets.

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So like the long deployments without any
kind of returning to port, because they go

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so far, minimal oversight of the working
conditions and the people's health.

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They also talked about a lot
of dangerous labor practices.

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Now, if anybody has watched Deadliest
Catch, we've learned about one

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of the most dangerous, if not the
dangerous jobs in North America.

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It's usually the crab fishery in Alaska.

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Why?

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Because being out in Alaska
on the sea sucks sometimes.

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It's beautiful, but it sucks sometimes.

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There are massive ways.

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You're looking at the Eastern
Pacific North Pacific Ocean.

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It's cold.

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There are a lot of waves.

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The weather can turn at any point in
time and it can be very dangerous.

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A lot of people lose
their lives during that.

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Even in the show, the Deadliest Catch,
people have lost their lives over time.

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It is not an easy job, folks.

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It is not an easy job.

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So tuna fishing out in the Indian
Ocean or out in the Pacific, on

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the other side of the world for
us that live in North America, it

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is a very dangerous job as well.

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But also what happens is these fish
are not just found along the coastlines

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of your favorite countries or the
countries these people live in.

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What happens is you end up getting
on the boat, you go out and you

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don't come back for a long time.

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Six, seven months, sometimes a
year, sometimes more than a year.

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And when that happens, you start to get
people being like, well, hold on a second.

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How are people being treated while
they're out there for so long?

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I'll be honest.

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I go out on ships like in North America
when I've been out on ships to do

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marine mammal observing or trawling or
doing, you go out for a couple weeks.

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Maybe a month, maybe a couple months.

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I think the most I've really been
out is like seven weeks, eight weeks.

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And that was 'cause we got stuck out
there 'cause of bad weather and we

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had to do a ship to ship transfer.

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When you think about going out for
seven months or even like more than a

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year or more than that, and you're only
on a boat, you're not in the port and

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sometimes you can't go to different
ports because of immigration rules and

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stuff 'cause it's a different country.

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You start to get complicated and then
when people are out at sea all this

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time, you can get away with a lot.

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You can get away with a lot 'cause
not many people are on there, on the

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boats to monitor working conditions
to monitoring what fish are there.

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Now we do have fisheries observers that
are on them in some regional management

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areas, but that's not all the time.

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And that's not everywhere in the world.

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So what's behind canned
tuna the human cost?

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That's what we're gonna
discuss in this section.

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Because of the long distance
fishery in this industry.

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It's far away.

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Law enforcement can't be there, and public
scrutiny is not there to call people out.

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If somebody's got a camera on their
phone and trying to send it back

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home, you can't always do that.

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There's probably no signal out there.

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So NGO investigations and Human Rights
groups have documented forced labor.

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We know there are
fishery slaves out there.

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It continues to happen.

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There's withheld wages, unsafe
conditions and exploitation of

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migrant fishers in some tuna fleets.

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And especially what they do is they'll
kind of bring you on board, especially in

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people like in Malaysia, the Philippines,
where you're not getting paid as much.

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They come on board.

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They go on for a long time.

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They get their passports taken away.

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Say, Hey, you know what?

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We got a safe here.

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We're gonna hold onto it.

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They don't give it back,
especially if they go to different

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ports, if they come back.

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If they get sick, they're
not treated properly.

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Some are even thrown overboard
if they can't perform.

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It's a very, very harsh condition.

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It is the modern day slavery
that we see today, unfortunately,

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and it continues to go on.

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So these supply chains that include
tuna ends up in major supermarkets.

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So we're eating and supporting
the companies that are supporting

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these fishery slaves, these harsh
work conditions, these areas

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where like occupational health and
safety is not at the forefront.

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If you go on a boat like a Norwegian
boat or you go on like anywhere in Europe

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or you go on places in Canada or the
US, occupational health and safety is

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at the top, like safety is at the top
of the list in terms of what you need to

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know and what you need to be trained on.

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In other places around the world where
there are long deployments and they're far

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away from the coast, there's no monitoring
and there's nobody on the board to say,

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Hey, you know what, you can't do that.

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Or, that's is unsafe.

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This is unsafe.

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It could be very hectic, it could be sad,
it could be very stressful for a lot of

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people and it could end up in death.

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But what this story does is it
connects like the labor force of

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tuna with ocean sustainability.

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So the abuse of workers in destructive
fishing practices often appear together.

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So when you see lack of monitoring of
like how many fish are taken or where

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they're taken from, or have they been
properly processed and documented.

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Well, that's the same thing
that happens with humans.

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Usually they're hand in hand
fishery slaves and stuff.

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If you're gonna do one thing illegal,
you're gonna do the other thing illegal

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so that you can actually probably
identify some of those boats right

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off the bat just by their problems
with environmental sustainability.

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But this is not just an
environmental problem.

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Tuna fishing is not just
an environmental problem.

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It is also a people problem,
and it has to be solved.

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This is something that the transparency
behind who is getting your fish, who's

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catching your fish is a huge thing.

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And to be honest, there are a lot of
new popup kind of shops, not popup,

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but they've shops that have popped up
online where in Europe and North America.

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We've documented this here on the podcast
before where you can actually get a

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picture and find out who caught your fish
and their families and their generation.

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And you get their whole story behind it.

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It connects the consumer to the fisher.

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Which is really cool because you can
see that there's not that many middle

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people or middle companies or middlemen,
what they call it in the middle to

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like take away that transparency.

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And it's harder to track when
you have more people involved.

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So that's something
that's really interesting.

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Now there is of course the environmental
side, like the bycatch, dark fleets,

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and supply chain opacity, which
is something that's a huge part.

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We're going to discuss it in this section.

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So tuna caught for cheap retail products
often come with like huge environmental,

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like from industrial fishing of course
that uses high impact gear, like FAD, so

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Fish Aggregating Devices, which, we've
had people from the International Seafood

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Sustainability Foundation on the podcast
to talk about fish aggregation devices

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and how they've improved over that time.

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But there are still some that are being
used that are not good for sustainability.

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They can increase the catch of
non-targeted species, including

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sharks, sea turtles, dolphins,
sea birds, and juvenile tuna.

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Now, of course, like I
said, this is from the past.

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The newer ones that are being tested
and that have been discussed on

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this podcast before are better, but
they still come with some caveats,

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so you have to be careful of that.

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Now, of course, some vessels
stay at sea for long periods.

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So transshipping tuna at sea, there's
less transparency involved there.

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Because it really comes up to the people
who, like I have fisheries observers who

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are on these trans shipping boats that
receive all the goods from the catches

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and the boats that catch the fish.

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Sometimes they come in and they don't
even know what these fish are because

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they've already been processed.

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They've chopped the heads off, chopped
the fins off, chopped the tails off.

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Obviously they were dead
before that, hopefully.

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And then they bring 'em on board.

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But sometimes it's difficult to
tell between a tuna and a shark.

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It really is when you process
all the meat and everything.

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Even when you have observers on these
transhippers, it's really difficult

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to kind of catch and watch and
monitor all these fish accurately.

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So there's a lot of ethical
and ecological practices that

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can be called into question.

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But even when the companies say, like
for marketing, they say, Hey, look,

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this has been responsibly sourced,
that doesn't always mean they have.

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And there's a lot of greenwashing
out there, or blue washing,

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whatever you want to call it.

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That happens with these marketing pieces
on the actual label of the canned tuna.

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So it is something that, you know, has
to be monitored and has to be caught.

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We'll talk about that in the next session.

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So that when we think of
tuna, we think of food.

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Like that's always the
thing we think about.

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We don't think about
everything behind that.

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We rarely think of the ecosystems.

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The protected species and the
fishing technology that's used.

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And so now what I hope to get out
of this video for you is to really

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start thinking about how it's caught.

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And I know it's not fun because all you
wanna do is eat that delicious tuna.

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It's very good and it's very good for you.

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And some people really, really like it.

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But it's also something that
you have to think about is

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like, is this the right company?

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Is this the right certification,
which we're gonna talk about now.

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We're gonna talk about certifications
and solutions, promising ideas

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with complications, of course.

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Now certifications have come out.

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You have the Marine Stewardship Council.

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You have the International Seafood
Sustainability Foundation who works

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with scientists and major tuna companies
to improve gear, reduced bycatch.

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And track stock health.

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You have a number of different ones.

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You have Seafood Watch.

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There are a number of different
programs out there, apps that help

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you track what's the right seafood,
where they're caught and so forth.

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So those are all important.

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So these organizations have improved
transparency 'cause like, say something

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like the Marine Stewardship Council,
what they want to do is they want

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to take, I think they have over 400
fisheries, probably more than that,

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where they actually look at where
it's caught and the whole supply

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chain, all the way up to retail.

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They check everything and
they check every part of it.

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You have to go through a certification
process to be able to be certified and

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put that on your label to say, Hey, I'm
MSC certified to be able to do that.

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So I think, you know, having that, having
the ISSF, the International Seafood

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Sustainability Foundation who've, we've
had the president on the podcast before.

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They focus more on ecological
sustainability than labor protections, but

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they're still very interested in reducing
those and making sure that those companies

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and those supply chains that they support
do not have any of that in their system,

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obviously in their whole supply chain.

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'cause that's obviously not bad.

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So the certification doesn't always
guarantee like ethical working

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conditions and/or low environmental harm.

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That's one of the problems
with these certifications.

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And it's not to say that these
certifications are worth nothing.

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They're worth a lot because they do
make the process more transparent.

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But they may also uncover a lot
of things that aren't very good.

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I'd have to have somebody on from the
Marine Stewardship Council to find

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out how they vet each of their people.

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It's been a while since I've had them on.

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But they do have some really good
sustainable fisheries, and they

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do monitor those supply chains.

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However, there needs to be more progress,
especially when we look at the labor

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practices of some of these boats.

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And some of these companies may not know,
or they don't do enough due diligence

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to know what's happening on these boats,
how long these boats are out there, and

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what they do, all that kind of stuff.

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So that needs to change.

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We do know this.

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This investigation plus a plethora of
other investigations, not only from

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a journalistic standpoint, but also
a science standpoint and labor law

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and just human rights standpoint.

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We know this goes on and it needs
to be improved, definitely improved.

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So even though there's real
progress and real pressure to

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do better, there's also a lot of
greenwashing and gaps in an oversight.

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So, consumers need to
understand both of these.

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However, when you do something
like the big consumer question,

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what are the better choices?

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There are some more sustainable
tune options available.

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So look for MSC Blue label because
you will get the better option.

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It's not the best option,
but it's the better option.

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Choose products, that say, caught
by pole and line or troll caught,

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like T-R-O-L-L caught because those
methods reduce a lot of bycatch.

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When you're just looking at pole
and line, it's just literally

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a fishing pole in a line.

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00:14:15,983 --> 00:14:18,413
Or a troll caught, it's like you're
trolling along and you're catching them.

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00:14:18,493 --> 00:14:23,203
Brands like Safe Catch, Clover Leaf,
which is MSC certified products, and

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then great value MSC certified tuna
have better transparency standards.

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But the best takeaway is bigger
than the sticker or the logo.

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That's really something to think about.

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You have to ask yourself
where your seafood came from.

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00:14:35,356 --> 00:14:40,800
Ask how it was caught and ask who caught
it and whether they were treated fairly.

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00:14:41,146 --> 00:14:44,266
Now you're gonna ask this at the
supermarket and nobody's gonna know.

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00:14:44,373 --> 00:14:49,653
The more we ask, the better the
companies get at being more transparent.

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00:14:50,268 --> 00:14:52,128
Because like a lot of
times I've done it before.

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00:14:52,128 --> 00:14:54,438
I've gone to my supermarket, I've
ordered seafood and I'm like, Hey,

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00:14:54,438 --> 00:14:55,848
do you know how this was caught?

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00:14:55,848 --> 00:14:57,288
Where it was caught and who caught it?

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00:14:57,678 --> 00:15:01,458
And like the 16, 17-year-old behind
the counter is like, I don't know man.

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00:15:01,548 --> 00:15:02,838
Like just, do you want it or not?

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00:15:02,928 --> 00:15:03,888
Like they don't care.

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00:15:03,971 --> 00:15:06,311
They're just there to
earn their minimum wage.

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00:15:06,731 --> 00:15:09,731
And like especially with a student,
there are some, I should say, there

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00:15:09,731 --> 00:15:13,061
are some like managers and stuff that
really take it to heart and will do it.

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00:15:13,061 --> 00:15:16,386
And there are some fishing markets
that will look at everything.

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00:15:16,386 --> 00:15:18,336
And so those are the
ones you wanna support.

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00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:20,880
If they're not like that, don't
support those supermarkets.

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00:15:20,940 --> 00:15:25,695
Make them say what it is and make them
like, look at what it is and make better

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00:15:25,695 --> 00:15:27,315
decisions when they do their purchases.

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00:15:27,315 --> 00:15:27,615
Right.

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00:15:27,698 --> 00:15:31,068
This is a story about literally
everyday choices that you

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00:15:31,068 --> 00:15:32,118
make at the grocery store.

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00:15:32,388 --> 00:15:36,558
Tuna is one of the most consumed fish
in the world because of its health

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00:15:36,978 --> 00:15:37,928
attributes, I guess you call it.

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00:15:38,488 --> 00:15:43,118
But this means that consumers have power
in the type of tuna that we consume.

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00:15:43,328 --> 00:15:46,868
And so it is important
that we demand better.

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00:15:47,108 --> 00:15:51,918
It is important that we follow up with
Marine Stewardship Council, ask questions.

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00:15:51,995 --> 00:15:53,885
ISSF, ask questions.

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00:15:53,885 --> 00:15:55,685
Your supermarket, ask questions.

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00:15:56,075 --> 00:15:58,355
This is where it starts to begin.

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00:15:58,385 --> 00:16:03,405
The movement begins for better
transparency and a lot more due diligence

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00:16:03,405 --> 00:16:06,045
where you get your global seafood.

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00:16:06,195 --> 00:16:07,635
That's really what it comes down to.

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00:16:07,965 --> 00:16:11,148
So the next time you pick up a can of
tuna, think about the hands that caught

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00:16:11,148 --> 00:16:14,925
it, like the people that caught it, the
methods that pulled it from the sea.

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00:16:15,285 --> 00:16:19,385
And then you know what systems you want to
support is really what it comes down to.

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00:16:19,385 --> 00:16:22,085
Sustainable seafood is not only
about protecting marine life,

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00:16:22,085 --> 00:16:24,305
it's about protecting people
too, because people catch 'em.

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00:16:24,385 --> 00:16:28,045
And there's a lot of people who are
mistreated in trying to catch food for you

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00:16:28,045 --> 00:16:32,545
so that you can have this can of seafood
once a day or once every other day or once

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00:16:32,545 --> 00:16:34,615
a week or however often you consume it.

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00:16:34,615 --> 00:16:36,961
Don't consume tuna more than
once a week, by the way.

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00:16:36,961 --> 00:16:38,761
It's not very good with
the mercury content.

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00:16:39,271 --> 00:16:42,841
So I think that's the big takeaway
message is when you start to eat

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00:16:42,871 --> 00:16:45,691
any kind of seafood, any kind of
meal, really, any kind of meat

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00:16:45,691 --> 00:16:47,731
or vegetable, just ask yourself.

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00:16:48,045 --> 00:16:48,975
Where does it come from?

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00:16:49,365 --> 00:16:50,846
Who caught it and how it was caught?

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00:16:51,195 --> 00:16:54,398
Those are the big questions you should
ask when you're looking at your tuna and

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00:16:54,398 --> 00:16:57,458
any other types of fisheries that you
eat or any type of seafood that you eat.

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00:16:57,578 --> 00:16:58,448
It's very important.

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00:16:58,598 --> 00:16:59,948
That's it for today's episode.

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00:16:59,948 --> 00:17:04,118
If you have any questions or comments,
please put it down in the comments down

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00:17:04,118 --> 00:17:05,608
below if you're watching this on YouTube.

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00:17:05,658 --> 00:17:08,778
And if you're listening to this on your
favorite podcast app, I am so excited.

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00:17:08,778 --> 00:17:10,758
I've got this new service
that I'm trying out.

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00:17:10,838 --> 00:17:11,948
I would love to hear from you.

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00:17:11,953 --> 00:17:15,320
You can leave a message or a voicemail,
or leave a rating and review.

371
00:17:15,410 --> 00:17:21,110
But if you go to speak up for
blue.com/feedback, you can leave

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00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:22,520
me a message and a question.

373
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,335
It just go to me, it
doesn't go to the public.

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00:17:25,010 --> 00:17:28,600
If you have a question or something
you want me to cover or you have like

375
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,580
feedback for me, I would love to hear it.

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00:17:30,580 --> 00:17:34,300
Go Speak up for blue.com/feedback.

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00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:35,560
All one word feedback.

378
00:17:35,710 --> 00:17:38,560
I wanna thank you so much for
joining me on today's episode of the

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00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:39,820
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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00:17:40,060 --> 00:17:42,460
I'm your host Andrew Lewin from
the True North Strong and free.

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00:17:42,460 --> 00:17:43,090
Have a great day.

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00:17:43,090 --> 00:17:45,010
We'll talk to you next time
and happy conservation.