Climate Solutions for the Ocean: How Restoring Kelp Forests Could Change the Future of the Seas

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Kelp forests are disappearing
fast, and with them we lose one

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of the most powerful life support
systems the ocean has to offer.

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They shape entire ecosystems, feed
communities, buffer, coastlines,

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and even help stabilize our climate.

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Yet most people barely think
about them unless they see

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seaweed washed up on the beach.

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Today we changed that.

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Scott Icic is here from Ocean Wise.

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He joins us on the show to reveal
how sea forestation is becoming one

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of the most exciting and overlooked
solutions for ocean health, climate

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resilience, and community wellbeing.

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We're gonna talk to Scott on this episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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I'm your host, and/or Lewin, Marine
biologist and science communicator

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here to tell you what's happening with
the ocean, how you can speak up for

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the ocean, and what you can do to live
for a better ocean by taking action.

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And today we're gonna be talking
about seaweed, not sea grass, which

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is much different than the podcast I'm
trying to start called the Seagrass

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Effect, which you can go to speak
up for blue.com/seagrass to help

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crowdfund that sucker to get it going.

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And let's talk about seagrass.

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Today we're gonna be talking about
a seaweed, a particularly important

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seaweed called kelp and the kelp
forest that they create and how they

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help shape biodiversity, how they help
shape ecosystems, how they sequester

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carbon, how they are a climate change
mechanism to bring climate change down.

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This is the be all known all of
habitats that we don't talk about.

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And why don't we talk about 'em maybe is
because they're not as sexy in terms of.

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Coral reefs, right?

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They don't have these brilliant colors.

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They're green.

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Sometimes a little orangey, sometimes
a little different types of green,

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sometimes a little brown, but they
are in these beautiful habitats.

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Maybe not clear water.

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Maybe that's why they're not sexy, but
they have all of these animals that are

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around it from invertebrates, like sea
urchins and starfish to Marine mammal.

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Like sea otters and sea lions and
seals to fish of all different types

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and colors that are just interesting
looking, unique, looking, weird looking.

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Some are bright orange, some
are gray, some are brown.

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Some are just beautiful, absolute
beautiful, and they're found not

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just on the BC's coast, which
we're gonna be focusing today.

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They're found all over the world and
they're such an important habitat

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that we just don't talk about.

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But today.

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We are here to talk about it because
we're here to talk to Scott Boic,

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who's the director of the Sea
Forestation Program at Ocean Wise.

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Now, ocean Wise is this Canadian
organization that is an international

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organization, but it's based in Vancouver.

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It covers a lot of different things.

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It covers climate change,
it covers whales, it covers

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ocean pollution and plastics.

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It covers overfishing.

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It covers so many things within those
larger programs that have become something

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of interest for Canadians and something of
interest for the international community.

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They collaborate internationally
with a number of different countries

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and researchers all over the
world and they play a big role.

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And in Canada it's important 'cause
I'm obviously, I'm Canadian, but it's

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important because there aren't a lot
of organizations that are based in

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Canada that are focused on the ocean.

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Ocean Wise is one of them, and I
think it's a huge part of Canada.

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It's a huge part of making Canadians
leaders in ocean conservation, and I

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really appreciate Ocean Wise, I've wanted
to have somebody from Ocean Wise on

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for my entire time doing this podcast,
being able to have Scott on the podcast.

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Is such an honor and to be able to
hopefully bring on more people from

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Ocean Wise to be able to talk about
the different programs is great.

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So here we're talking about sea
forestation, how they're restoring kelp

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forests to help protect 'em and help
bolster kelp forests within the ocean.

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Especially along the BC coast.

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We're gonna talk about, you know,
what it's like to grow them, how

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fast to grow them, how long they have
to grow in sort of like a nursery

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area, like in a building compared
to when they had to bring them out.

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Spoiler, it's not that long.

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There's a lot of different things
that we talk about in this place and

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even the barriers to having a big
scaled sea forestation around the

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world like that would be amazing.

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And we talk about those
barriers, funding so forth.

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But it's great.

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So I want you to listen.

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I want you to let me know what you think.

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So here is the interview
with Scott Boychuk.

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He's the director of Sea
four Station at Ocean Wise.

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Enjoy the interview and
I'll talk to you after.

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Hey Scott, welcome to the How
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about Ocean
Wise Kelp and Sea Forest Station?

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Hey And/or, thanks for
having me on the pod.

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I'm excited to chat, uh, a little bit
about Sea Forestation with you today.

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Fantastic.

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This is gonna be a lot of fun.

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I, this is a bit of a bucket list for me.

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'cause Ocean Wise, as a Canadian,
ocean wise has been such an important

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part of Marine conservation in
general for, for decades for me.

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And so I've been watching
Ocean Wise for a while.

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I've been watching the programs develop,
uh, especially like, you know, the, the,

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just, even just the seafood program,
the sustainable seafood program for

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Ocean Wise develop over years after
year after year and become such a, a

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mainstay for, uh, Canadian restaurants
and grocery stores And so forth.

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And now, you know, ocean Wise has become
such, this huge conservation organization

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and a lot of different programs,
especially the Sea Forestation program,

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which we're gonna be talking about.

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'cause I'm very excited.

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I feel like it doesn't
get talked about enough.

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So I'm really glad we're gonna
be able to talk about it today.

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We're also gonna talk about Ocean
Wise, 'cause 'cause I want, I have some

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questions that I want to get to know.

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And of course, I, I wanna get to know you
Scott, and, you know, I want our audience

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to know who you are and all that stuff.

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So let's get into that.

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First, uh, Scott, why don't you just
let us know who you are and what you do.

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Yeah, sure.

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Thanks a lot.

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Uh, well, um, my name is Scott
Ick and I'm the director of

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Sea Forestation at Ocean Wise.

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Um, I've been in this role for about
three years and have a background

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in education and international
development and business.

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Um, I lead, uh, ocean Wise's, sea
Forestation initiatives, uh, in

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British Columbia and in Chile.

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And, uh, yeah, excited to
dig into all things kelp.

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Uh, it's an exciting
place to be right now.

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And, uh, and thanks for your, uh,
support and interest, uh, in Ocean

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Wise, uh, over, over the last few years.

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Absolutely.

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Now, you've had, uh, a, a pretty
wide array of background, but

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very much environmental focused.

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What led you to that,
especially someone with an MBA?

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You know, like the, we, a lot of times
when you get an MBA you go into the

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person is generally going into some sort
of business, uh, 'cause you know, it's

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a, it's a, it's a master's in business.

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What sort of steered you
towards that, that environmental

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focus throughout your career?

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Well, I mean, not to go on too, uh,
long a winded, uh, biography here.

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But, um, it, it really
started for me when I was 19.

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I, I spent a year in Indonesia, um,
in Sumatra, in Northern Sumatra.

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And, uh, I just remember my first
time driving past some of the,

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honestly, the clear cut rainforest.

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And I found out that that was being
replanted with, uh, with palm trees

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for palm oil and just growing,
growing up in Edmonton, um, kind

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of a, a young kid understanding
what the impacts of globalization,

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uh, were on, on, on the planet.

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Uh, really kind of opened my eyes to
some of the more global environmental

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issues that, that we were facing.

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Um, you know, that was a,
that was around 2004, 2005.

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Um, you know, I feel like.

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Uh, I guess not so much a special
time, but a unique time, at least

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in my own personal journey for the
environmental movement And mm-hmm.

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Uh, that just got me kind
of on this, on this path.

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I had always been interested in
environmental issues and spent a

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lot of time outdoors with my family
growing up and had that connection

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to, uh, the land and the ocean.

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But, um, that was, uh, that year was
really a moment for me that I decided

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to dedicate more of my, my time and, and
really my career towards those issues.

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That's interesting too.

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And, and you know, leading up to
ocean wise, you know, which is very

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obviously focused on, on the ocean.

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You know, you talk about, you know,
you know, going to Indonesia, an

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island, an island nation, you're
seeing a lot of stuff on land.

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Did you have a, an interest or did
you have an idea of the issues that

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were going on in the ocean, especially
around, um, coastal habitats?

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You know, things like kelp, obviously
not in Indonesia, but things like kelp,

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seagrasses, coral reefs, you know, salt
wa, salt water, salt marshes And so forth,

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and mudflats, uh, a lot of different
coastal habitats that are around.

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But you know, the, the, um, the
problems that they were having.

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Had you had a lot of knowledge of
that before, uh, coming to Ocean Wise?

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Um, before Ocean Wise, yes.

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But I can say at 19, not so much as
I said, you know, pretty much when

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I locked, growing up in Edmonton.

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Right.

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You know, we, we got to the Pacific
a few times, uh, growing up.

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But, uh, I think, you know, through,
over the course of my twenties and, uh,

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and thirties and certainly going back to
school, um, for international development,

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you know, saw the importance of the ocean.

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Not only its intrinsic value, um,
but also kind of how many people,

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hundreds of millions of people, and
really all of us depend on a healthy

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ocean for our day-to-day wellbeing.

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Um, So it was, uh, you know, I, I don't
have a degree in, in Marine biology.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I, I agree that sometimes the MBA is,
uh, is unique in, in the nonprofit kind

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of environmental sector, but, uh, we can
touch on that a little bit, um, more, but

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certainly I think the ocean is kind of
having a moment right now more mm-hmm.

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More broadly in the public,
um, in the public eye.

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And people are.

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Uh, really more people are really
understanding the importance

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of, uh, of ocean health.

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And I think it's so important that
people with MPAs, people with, you know,

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various business backgrounds or various
backgrounds understand, you know, things

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that are happening to the environment.

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You know, the, I think this is
a very important aspect to ocean

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conservation in general, because,
you know, it's not just scientists.

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Like, I always tell people, I focus that
a lot in this podcast where it's not

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just scientists that need to be involved
in the ocean, it's, it's everybody.

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We all live part of it, we all benefit
from it, but we all part are like,

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are part of the consequences of
what we're seeing in, in the ocean.

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And to be able to have people who
are at different stages in life,

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different cultures, different,
you know, professional backgrounds

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And so forth, have that ability to
open up and just be like, yes, we

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need to do better and recognize it.

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Uh, and, and do be in positions like, you
know, like your position as director, you

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almost need to have an MBA or it benefits
you to have an MBA so that you can manage

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these, these sophisticated problems.

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Right.

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And, and I Do you find.

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In your experience and the people that
you've, uh, interacted with at the

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same level, like within an MBA program?

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'cause I believe you did the MBA, the
executive MBA program at Queens, correct?

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That's correct, yeah.

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Which you get a lot of people from various
backgrounds who are already working.

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You know, this is something
that's done on top of it.

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It's, it's very, uh, I had a couple
friends who have gone through it.

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It's, it's an intense program.

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It's a great program.

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Obviously Queens University
is one of the best.

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Uh, and it's, it's, but you're getting
people from all over the place.

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Did you have that mindset when you went
into like your, your MBA of like, okay,

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I'm gonna go into the nonprofit sector
And then to speak to people, or, or have,

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or were you influenced by people who were
also within your cohort to do the same?

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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Interesting.

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Well, I was in the nonprofit sector
before joining or before going

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through the executive MBA as well.

223
00:11:14,865 --> 00:11:18,645
I was, uh, in Ottawa for five years with
the United Nations Association in Canada.

224
00:11:18,975 --> 00:11:19,155
Right.

225
00:11:19,185 --> 00:11:24,195
Um, and I think, you know, part of the
motivation for going into the MBA was

226
00:11:24,195 --> 00:11:26,325
just to kind of round out a skillset.

227
00:11:26,415 --> 00:11:31,365
Um, you know, in, in nonprofits and
certainly larger nonprofits, like Ocean

228
00:11:31,365 --> 00:11:36,255
Wise, we operate, uh, very much like,
uh, you know, a business in many ways.

229
00:11:36,255 --> 00:11:38,295
We've got big budgets to balance.

230
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We have revenue, uh, targets to bring in.

231
00:11:40,785 --> 00:11:44,745
There's, uh, there's milestones
and project management activities,

232
00:11:44,775 --> 00:11:49,065
uh, that must be kind of
delivered on time and on budget.

233
00:11:49,065 --> 00:11:53,295
So those types of skills are very
transferable from the MBA to the nonprofit

234
00:11:53,295 --> 00:11:55,305
sector and organizations like Ocean Wise.

235
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,850
And, but I would also say kind of the
main takeaway for me, um, from the

236
00:11:59,850 --> 00:12:03,480
Queens program and, uh, showed out
to all my wonderful colleagues that,

237
00:12:03,510 --> 00:12:08,730
uh, suffered, uh, with me through
that, uh, 18 months was really, um,

238
00:12:08,730 --> 00:12:14,400
understanding how to develop and, um,
and sustain high performing teams.

239
00:12:14,430 --> 00:12:18,270
It was really around team teamwork and
leadership, um, and understanding that.

240
00:12:18,810 --> 00:12:23,490
Uh, you know, how to fit the pieces of the
puzzle together to achieve a common goal.

241
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,840
And that, that type of a mindset,
I think is transferable, um,

242
00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:31,080
in, in any organization and
in many aspects of your life.

243
00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:35,970
Um, and I think I, I've tried to do what
I can to bring some of those lessons

244
00:12:35,970 --> 00:12:39,930
and, uh, and learnings, uh, to Ocean
Wise and to the Sea Forest Station team.

245
00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:41,190
Fantastic.

246
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:45,120
Can you just kind of give people an idea
if they haven't heard of, of Ocean Wise

247
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:50,760
before, what Ocean Wise is, And then after
that, can you just kind of, um, tell us

248
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,055
what attracted, I mean, we, I, I bet you,
I can tell you what attracted, but let

249
00:12:55,320 --> 00:13:00,300
let us know what, what personally, what
attracted you to work, uh, for Ocean Wise.

250
00:13:01,710 --> 00:13:05,070
Um, well, ocean Wise is a global
conservation organization based

251
00:13:05,070 --> 00:13:07,170
in Vancouver, British Columbia.

252
00:13:07,230 --> 00:13:11,910
Um, our mission is to build a global
community that takes meaningful action

253
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:16,320
to protect and restore the ocean,
uh, in tackling plastic pollution

254
00:13:16,350 --> 00:13:21,030
over fishing and climate change,
uh, through research, education, uh,

255
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:25,320
innovation and direct conservation,
uh, to ensure healthy Marine ecosystems

256
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,390
and, and thriving, uh, communities.

257
00:13:28,110 --> 00:13:29,850
And we're doing a lot of great work.

258
00:13:29,850 --> 00:13:32,970
I'd encourage people to, uh,
pop by the website or follow us

259
00:13:32,970 --> 00:13:34,290
on social media to learn more.

260
00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:35,730
You can sign up to the newsletter.

261
00:13:35,730 --> 00:13:38,700
We've got a great, uh, external
communications team that's, uh,

262
00:13:38,730 --> 00:13:42,120
providing, uh, fun and interesting
and important updates about our

263
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:43,920
work on, on a regular basis.

264
00:13:44,445 --> 00:13:48,135
And certainly we are looking for more
ocean supporters to, to follow the

265
00:13:48,135 --> 00:13:52,005
movement and get involved, uh, with Ocean
Wise in a variety of different ways.

266
00:13:52,965 --> 00:13:57,195
Uh, you know, I was, this is, uh, my
sixth year actually with Ocean Wise.

267
00:13:57,195 --> 00:14:01,845
So I've been here for, uh, for some time
and, you know, it was just a wonderful

268
00:14:01,845 --> 00:14:05,625
opportunity to get into a new arena.

269
00:14:05,625 --> 00:14:09,045
I did not, as I mentioned, I didn't
have a Marine biology background,

270
00:14:09,045 --> 00:14:13,125
but from a, from a climate and
environmental perspective, I, I clearly

271
00:14:13,125 --> 00:14:15,555
understood how important the ocean was.

272
00:14:15,555 --> 00:14:21,465
And I, and I, I guess if I wanna apply
perhaps some of the, uh, some of the

273
00:14:21,495 --> 00:14:25,635
skills or lessons I learned in the NBA, I
thought it was kind of a, a rising stock.

274
00:14:25,635 --> 00:14:28,425
You know, I thought it was a good bet,
you know, to get into the ocean game.

275
00:14:28,425 --> 00:14:31,485
There would be lots of
work, lots of development.

276
00:14:31,515 --> 00:14:32,265
I mean, the ocean.

277
00:14:32,805 --> 00:14:38,625
Uh, the ocean has received a really,
a disproportionately small amount of

278
00:14:38,625 --> 00:14:40,635
funding in the environmental movement.

279
00:14:40,635 --> 00:14:44,265
And yeah, and even as a subset
of that kelp has even been

280
00:14:44,265 --> 00:14:46,065
more largely overlooked.

281
00:14:46,425 --> 00:14:50,955
Um, but yeah, uh, you know, certainly
the opportunity within Ocean Wise, um,

282
00:14:52,395 --> 00:14:55,965
the opportunity to move to Vancouver
and, and be actually a little bit closer

283
00:14:55,965 --> 00:15:00,105
to home with my family in Alberta, were
important reasons, but, um, really just an

284
00:15:00,105 --> 00:15:04,065
exciting opportunity to get more involved
with, uh, with Ocean conservation.

285
00:15:04,635 --> 00:15:08,355
Well, it's fantastic because,
you know, one thing I, I know in.

286
00:15:08,895 --> 00:15:11,745
In Canadas, there aren't
many organizations that are

287
00:15:11,745 --> 00:15:13,755
strictly dedicated to the ocean.

288
00:15:14,025 --> 00:15:17,475
There are a lot in the us unfortunately
there aren't as many here.

289
00:15:17,565 --> 00:15:17,715
Mm-hmm.

290
00:15:17,715 --> 00:15:22,755
And Ocean Wise is one of those few
that really stand up for the ocean, not

291
00:15:22,755 --> 00:15:27,855
only from an advocacy level, but from
a science level, from a conservation

292
00:15:27,855 --> 00:15:29,025
level, from a community level.

293
00:15:29,025 --> 00:15:34,395
You seen the, the organization seems to
hit at every, you know, from, from, uh,

294
00:15:34,395 --> 00:15:38,535
the ground up essentially, you know,
from, from politics off the top to ground

295
00:15:38,535 --> 00:15:40,065
level to community and, And so forth.

296
00:15:40,065 --> 00:15:42,105
It's, it's very grassroots
at the same time.

297
00:15:42,255 --> 00:15:45,495
And I, that, that's one of the
things that I really admire about it.

298
00:15:45,735 --> 00:15:48,195
Uh, and, and I just, I
just love that fact now.

299
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:51,330
One of the programs, it has many,
is like, so there's, there's like

300
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,530
overarching, you know, sort of topics
like, like climate change, ocean

301
00:15:55,530 --> 00:15:59,580
pollution and plastics overfishing that,
you know, whales is, is a huge thing.

302
00:15:59,940 --> 00:16:00,030
Mm-hmm.

303
00:16:00,750 --> 00:16:04,200
Now, under the climate change program,
there's the sea forest station program,

304
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,570
which is, is what you're the director of.

305
00:16:06,780 --> 00:16:09,870
And we're here again, we're gonna focus
the rest of the conversation on this

306
00:16:09,870 --> 00:16:14,070
because it's, it's such an important
aspect because I don't think a lot of

307
00:16:14,070 --> 00:16:19,710
people really understand how important
coastal habitats, especially kelp

308
00:16:19,710 --> 00:16:26,520
forests are to our environment, are
to the climate change, um, you know,

309
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,130
race, I guess to reduce climate change.

310
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:33,570
Can you talk a little bit about
the importance of, of kelp and

311
00:16:33,570 --> 00:16:36,960
just this, the sea, how the sea
forestation program came, you know,

312
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,430
kelp is obviously a big part of it.

313
00:16:38,430 --> 00:16:41,190
If there's other, you know, habitats
that are part of it as well.

314
00:16:41,340 --> 00:16:43,500
Can you just kind of give us a
little bit of a brief description

315
00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:44,850
before we dive in a little deeper?

316
00:16:45,510 --> 00:16:46,140
Yeah, sure.

317
00:16:46,140 --> 00:16:50,460
Well, I mean, there's so much to say
about, uh, the importance of kelp.

318
00:16:50,490 --> 00:16:53,220
Um, and I, I think you're right.

319
00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:56,070
I mean, lots of people, um, you
know, seaweed and kelp are not

320
00:16:56,070 --> 00:17:00,210
kind of everyday topics for, for,
for for many Canadians, you know?

321
00:17:00,210 --> 00:17:00,300
Mm-hmm.

322
00:17:00,540 --> 00:17:05,100
Unless perhaps, um, you've got some nori
on your plate at the sushi restaurant

323
00:17:05,100 --> 00:17:07,050
or, you know, something else like that.

324
00:17:07,050 --> 00:17:10,620
But, you know, and in fact, kind of
on more of the more kind of seaweed,

325
00:17:10,620 --> 00:17:14,490
aquaculture side of things, you know,
some of the products, um, and some of the

326
00:17:14,490 --> 00:17:18,510
components of kelp, you know, primarily
alginate is used in, in hundreds of

327
00:17:18,569 --> 00:17:21,660
everyday kind of consumer products
that people might not be aware of.

328
00:17:21,660 --> 00:17:25,950
So there is this kind of, uh, there
is this background of the importance

329
00:17:25,950 --> 00:17:30,990
of the seaweed industry globally, um,
that, uh, uh, that is growing quickly.

330
00:17:30,990 --> 00:17:36,360
And I think, um, you know, from a.
From a land or from a world and kind of

331
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:41,640
constrained land resources, you know, uh,
um, a commodity perhaps such as seaweed

332
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,020
that requires no, no land, no fresh
water, no fertilizers or additives, you

333
00:17:46,020 --> 00:17:49,980
know, could play an important role in,
in the future of food security and, uh,

334
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,440
and, and climate, uh, around the world.

335
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:57,270
But the Sea Forestation Initiative at, at
Ocean Wise is really focused on restoring

336
00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:59,760
and protecting wild kelp forests.

337
00:17:59,850 --> 00:18:05,040
Um, we have seen a global decline
of around 50% of the world's

338
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,790
kelp forests, that that hasn't
happened evenly around the world.

339
00:18:08,790 --> 00:18:12,420
There's large kind of temporal and
spatial, uh, differences in different

340
00:18:12,420 --> 00:18:16,410
regions, and there's a variety of
different factors for the decline of kelp.

341
00:18:16,410 --> 00:18:21,120
But, uh, climate change and various
ecosystem imbalances are, are two

342
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,220
of the kind of primary suspects for.

343
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:29,370
For most of the declines, um, I would say
one example is the Marine heat blob that

344
00:18:29,399 --> 00:18:34,205
moved up the west coast of California
and Washington and, uh, and Oregon and,

345
00:18:34,210 --> 00:18:41,610
and BC in Alaska in 20 14, 20 15 wiped
out about 95% of California's bull kelp,

346
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,100
uh, which has not, uh, has not recovered.

347
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:49,500
And so, you know, those types of losses,
um, are really devastating for the

348
00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:56,070
near shore ocean ecosystems because
Kelp provides just so many var, so

349
00:18:56,070 --> 00:19:02,700
many different ecosystem services from
support, um, for fisheries, uh, from

350
00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:07,590
buffering against coastal erosion,
uh, from supporting just a, a wide

351
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:10,770
variety of, of Marine, uh, biodiversity.

352
00:19:11,115 --> 00:19:16,485
Um, and nutrient cycling, not to mention
kind of the carbon, uh, sequestration

353
00:19:16,485 --> 00:19:21,195
and drawdown potential, uh, that
kelp and seaweed has in general.

354
00:19:21,195 --> 00:19:26,385
There's, there's just a, a rich, uh,
a rich abundance of ecosystem services

355
00:19:26,385 --> 00:19:30,620
that kelp forests provide that we, we
really need to urgently, uh, protect.

356
00:19:31,710 --> 00:19:34,980
Yeah, it seems like there's, as you
mentioned, there's been this huge boom

357
00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:38,129
in, you know, putting, you know, kelp
in clothes like, or making clothes

358
00:19:38,129 --> 00:19:42,629
from it, from making yarn from it, And
then food as well as, And so there's a

359
00:19:42,629 --> 00:19:46,260
lot of these different things that are
popping up even in the, and and they,

360
00:19:46,260 --> 00:19:47,970
they wanna do it sustainably, of course.

361
00:19:47,970 --> 00:19:51,990
And even in the point where, um,
you know, forests are redu are,

362
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,260
are reduced by, by significant
amount 'cause of climate change.

363
00:19:55,420 --> 00:19:58,420
Coastal development, a lot of different
things that are, that are happening.

364
00:19:58,420 --> 00:20:03,670
So the, the, the, the, the system itself
is in trouble from losing kelp, um mm-hmm.

365
00:20:03,910 --> 00:20:06,670
Even with the fact of, you know,
sea star wasting disease, you know

366
00:20:06,670 --> 00:20:10,310
how we realize sea star wasting sea
stars of that, of that disease that,

367
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,150
that were, that succumbed to those
diseases were such an important

368
00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:14,950
part of keeping sea urchins down.

369
00:20:15,100 --> 00:20:17,410
We didn't realize that at, at
the beginning until they were,

370
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,220
they were lost, lost some more
phos, real forest realizing that.

371
00:20:21,460 --> 00:20:24,490
And, And so it's, it's, there's
so many things that are activating

372
00:20:24,490 --> 00:20:28,390
after it, it makes sense to have
this sea, you know, sea forest

373
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:30,940
station kind of program to come up.

374
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:36,460
So this is, is, is, is this a,
um, a, a program where you're

375
00:20:36,460 --> 00:20:41,890
protecting existing kelp forests
or working to protect existing kelp

376
00:20:41,890 --> 00:20:44,110
forests as well as restoration?

377
00:20:44,110 --> 00:20:50,260
Or is it more of a restoration project
that will sort of boost, you know,

378
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,120
the, the kelp forest that we see today?

379
00:20:53,145 --> 00:20:58,035
Yeah, so we are focused, uh, more on
the active restoration of kelp forests

380
00:20:58,035 --> 00:21:01,845
in bc. There, um, there are a lot of,
there are some groups who are doing

381
00:21:01,845 --> 00:21:05,895
some very important mapping, um, and
kind of longer term mapping in the

382
00:21:05,895 --> 00:21:11,865
province, uh, right, to really understand
the trends of, of kelp forests in,

383
00:21:11,865 --> 00:21:15,555
in British Columbia and, and what is
happening, uh, on that side of things.

384
00:21:15,795 --> 00:21:20,475
We started four years ago, um, the
Sea Forestation Initiative, and

385
00:21:20,504 --> 00:21:24,345
right now we have some important
projects going on in British Columbia.

386
00:21:24,645 --> 00:21:29,985
Um, actually just yesterday it was a,
it was a long and very wet day in house

387
00:21:29,985 --> 00:21:32,865
sound, uh, with, with an incredible team.

388
00:21:32,895 --> 00:21:35,504
Uh, we were out planting some
of the green gravel that we.

389
00:21:35,879 --> 00:21:39,629
Had grown at our kelp nursery at
the Pacific Science Enterprise

390
00:21:39,629 --> 00:21:41,909
Center, uh, in West Vancouver.

391
00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:46,139
We have, uh, a space there
generously, uh, loaned to us from the

392
00:21:46,139 --> 00:21:47,490
Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

393
00:21:47,490 --> 00:21:51,899
And this is where we, uh, trial
innovative restoration techniques.

394
00:21:51,959 --> 00:21:56,790
Um, and this was the third year of
successfully growing some sugar kelp

395
00:21:56,790 --> 00:22:01,260
on, on green gravel, which is, uh,
UA unique restoration technique.

396
00:22:01,590 --> 00:22:03,719
Um, I won't go into too
much detail now, right?

397
00:22:03,719 --> 00:22:08,550
Maybe we can focus on it, uh, a little bit
later if there's a more specific question.

398
00:22:08,550 --> 00:22:13,020
But, uh, we were out inhouse sound,
uh, uh, yesterday out planting that

399
00:22:13,020 --> 00:22:15,060
green gravel at the restoration site.

400
00:22:15,090 --> 00:22:17,939
So, uh, that was a big milestone for us.

401
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,409
Um, it's a lot of work to get that, uh,
to get that project kind of to that point.

402
00:22:22,409 --> 00:22:26,879
And we were very pleased that the wind
cooperated, uh, although not so much,

403
00:22:26,909 --> 00:22:30,419
uh, the rain and we'll be at that
site, uh, three or four times over

404
00:22:30,419 --> 00:22:33,240
the, in 2026 to monitor the progress.

405
00:22:33,645 --> 00:22:37,695
Um, and we were delighted to see
some of the, the kelp that we had

406
00:22:37,695 --> 00:22:42,555
planted last year at the site, doing
well with reproductive tissue, uh,

407
00:22:42,555 --> 00:22:45,855
the source on the blades, which was,
uh, which was a great win as well.

408
00:22:46,695 --> 00:22:51,285
And we, we have another, uh, slightly
larger project in Barclay Sound in

409
00:22:51,285 --> 00:22:53,355
partnership with the Sayat First Nation.

410
00:22:53,445 --> 00:22:57,015
Um, and this is a slightly different
approach where we are actually

411
00:22:57,015 --> 00:23:02,475
trying to, uh, manage the urchin
population at an urchin barren.

412
00:23:02,475 --> 00:23:07,275
So I was glad that you brought that up
very much on top of your sea forestation,

413
00:23:07,605 --> 00:23:09,795
uh, and/or, which is, which is great.

414
00:23:09,795 --> 00:23:13,515
And we do have an urchin
issue in British Columbia.

415
00:23:13,515 --> 00:23:13,605
Mm-hmm.

416
00:23:13,905 --> 00:23:18,465
Um, as you mentioned, uh, urchin
populations have exploded, um,

417
00:23:20,115 --> 00:23:24,885
significantly due because of the
functional extrication of sea otters in

418
00:23:24,885 --> 00:23:26,415
British Columbia during the fur trade.

419
00:23:26,820 --> 00:23:32,430
Uh, you know, most estimates suggest that
we lost around 99% of the sea otters and,

420
00:23:32,430 --> 00:23:36,600
uh, And then the sea star wasting disease,
uh, as you mentioned as well, yeah.

421
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:40,440
Those two primary predators of
the urchins, uh, being abstinence

422
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,370
have led to really a significant
boom in the urchin population.

423
00:23:44,370 --> 00:23:52,500
And urchin populations will eat through an
entire kelp forest And then remain dormant

424
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:57,510
or kind of in a zombie state where they
are actually, um, starving and they're

425
00:23:57,510 --> 00:24:01,920
not usually not commercially viable, but
they will remain there and, and really

426
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,840
prevent the kelp forest from recovering.

427
00:24:03,870 --> 00:24:08,100
And we see huge reductions in
biodiversity at those urchin variants.

428
00:24:08,925 --> 00:24:11,655
I think you me, you, you mentioned
a really interesting point because

429
00:24:11,655 --> 00:24:14,955
here in Canada, we, we on, I know on
the east coast and probably on the

430
00:24:14,955 --> 00:24:18,915
west coast, if you can, if there's a,
there's fisheries for urchins, you know?

431
00:24:18,915 --> 00:24:19,004
Mm-hmm.

432
00:24:19,245 --> 00:24:22,725
And they, they use their, their
row like in, in like, like

433
00:24:22,725 --> 00:24:24,105
caviar and things like that.

434
00:24:24,105 --> 00:24:26,175
And you can get some really cool, uh, it.

435
00:24:26,260 --> 00:24:29,710
They taste interestingly, you know,
it's a cool texture and stuff and

436
00:24:29,710 --> 00:24:32,800
it's a big, it's a big thing here
in Canada as well as elsewhere.

437
00:24:33,070 --> 00:24:36,010
Um, but you mentioned like they're
not in, they're not in good condition

438
00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:37,690
enough to actually fish out.

439
00:24:37,690 --> 00:24:40,990
So like what do you,
what do you do with them?

440
00:24:41,050 --> 00:24:44,890
You know, in terms of like how, like in
a place where you talk where it's just

441
00:24:44,890 --> 00:24:47,920
like a sea and barren where they're
not gonna prevent kelp 'cause you're

442
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,190
not gonna spend the money 'cause the
money and the time and the effort.

443
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:54,310
You just mentioned how, you know, you're
not in the best conditions all the time.

444
00:24:54,310 --> 00:24:57,550
You know, you know, the BC coast
is beautiful, but it does rain.

445
00:24:57,580 --> 00:24:59,770
There is wind, it's a
coast, it's a Pacific ocean.

446
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,110
Uh, And so sometimes the
conditions aren't perfect.

447
00:25:02,110 --> 00:25:02,860
So there's a lot of work.

448
00:25:02,890 --> 00:25:05,980
This is, it's a lot of people
hours to put in and, and you know,

449
00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:09,820
it's, it's, it's a grunt work to,
to put all these, these kelp in.

450
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:13,240
And so you wanna make sure you
have the right spots for it.

451
00:25:13,629 --> 00:25:17,770
So, you know, like, you know,
when you have a, a site where you

452
00:25:17,770 --> 00:25:23,260
have this barren of, of urchins
that are not viable for fisheries.

453
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:27,300
Do you just skip over that, that area?

454
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:30,240
Do you get rid of the
urchins in that area?

455
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,500
How does that work with, with, when it
comes to a complicated site like that?

456
00:25:34,794 --> 00:25:35,215
Mm-hmm.

457
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:35,639
Mm-hmm.

458
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:37,560
Yeah, it's a great question.

459
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:43,169
And this is, this is, uh, part of, uh,
how kind of the regulatory environment

460
00:25:43,169 --> 00:25:45,060
plays a role in, in this work as well.

461
00:25:45,060 --> 00:25:50,729
And we've connected with, uh, several
experts, um, from the University of

462
00:25:50,729 --> 00:25:55,530
Auckland and, uh, a few, uh, a few
other organizations in California and

463
00:25:55,530 --> 00:26:00,389
Australia, um, who have done some really
interesting work on urchin management.

464
00:26:00,389 --> 00:26:05,639
And in those jurisdictions, they
are permitted, um, uh, through a

465
00:26:05,639 --> 00:26:08,939
variety of different means, but,
uh, sometimes through kind of like

466
00:26:08,939 --> 00:26:12,780
a scientific permit or a restoration
permit to actually go and call.

467
00:26:13,185 --> 00:26:14,085
Uh, the urchins.

468
00:26:14,170 --> 00:26:14,590
Mm-hmm.

469
00:26:14,685 --> 00:26:20,595
And the example from New Zealand is, um,
there were kind of four two hectare sites.

470
00:26:20,655 --> 00:26:25,125
Um, and they were, uh, allowed to
call the urchins to get that urchin

471
00:26:25,125 --> 00:26:29,655
density down from about 20 urchins
per square meter to one or two.

472
00:26:29,655 --> 00:26:33,675
And that's kind of what you need
to get, um, the density down to,

473
00:26:33,675 --> 00:26:37,065
to relieve the grazing pressure of
the urchins enough for the kelp to

474
00:26:37,065 --> 00:26:39,045
have a, a good chance to recover.

475
00:26:39,675 --> 00:26:43,845
Um, in Canada right now,
we're not quite at that.

476
00:26:43,845 --> 00:26:43,935
Mm-hmm.

477
00:26:44,505 --> 00:26:47,775
And we're not quite at that stage
yet where we're able to go and call.

478
00:26:47,775 --> 00:26:50,715
And of course that would be a conversation
with, with the First Nation and of

479
00:26:50,715 --> 00:26:53,865
course, and other local community
members as well, if that was, uh,

480
00:26:53,865 --> 00:26:58,185
if that was something they were, um,
interested or in, or supportive of.

481
00:26:58,190 --> 00:26:58,390
Mm-hmm.

482
00:26:58,475 --> 00:27:02,025
And, you know, we've been developing
all the projects that we've.

483
00:27:02,565 --> 00:27:07,245
We've trialed and are currently doing in
British Columbia, uh, with First Nations.

484
00:27:07,245 --> 00:27:11,655
We don't have, um, any projects that,
uh, don't kind of engage the First Nation

485
00:27:11,655 --> 00:27:14,355
early on and, and throughout the project.

486
00:27:14,355 --> 00:27:20,805
But, um, interestingly, um, in
the New Zealand example, there was

487
00:27:20,805 --> 00:27:24,650
actually some initial resistance
to the culling of the urchins.

488
00:27:24,650 --> 00:27:24,770
Of course.

489
00:27:24,770 --> 00:27:24,850
Yeah.

490
00:27:24,855 --> 00:27:30,855
But they kind of got permission to try
it, and the results were very positive.

491
00:27:30,855 --> 00:27:33,315
The kelp bounced back
very quickly, actually.

492
00:27:33,585 --> 00:27:35,955
As long as you just kind of take
that pressure off, you know,

493
00:27:35,955 --> 00:27:40,425
nature proves its resiliency,
uh, usually time and time again.

494
00:27:40,725 --> 00:27:44,865
And then once the kelp forest was
kind of back and they could see this

495
00:27:44,865 --> 00:27:49,005
really positive outcome, the, the
social support and kind of that social

496
00:27:49,005 --> 00:27:53,355
license, uh, was actually quite a bit
stronger to continue and to expand.

497
00:27:53,745 --> 00:27:56,655
And so I think in this sense,
it's a little bit of a short-term

498
00:27:56,655 --> 00:27:58,485
pain for long-term gain situation.

499
00:27:59,235 --> 00:28:03,885
Uh, of course we don't want to, we
don't wanna call the urchins, but if the

500
00:28:03,885 --> 00:28:09,075
end outcome is a, is a healthier kelp
forest, more balanced ecosystem, and all

501
00:28:09,075 --> 00:28:13,215
the other benefits that a thriving kelp
forest would provide, then I think we

502
00:28:13,215 --> 00:28:15,445
have to weigh the options in front of us.

503
00:28:16,035 --> 00:28:19,845
Well, and you'd also see a rebound
of those urchin populations within

504
00:28:19,845 --> 00:28:21,915
that area as the kelp forests grow.

505
00:28:21,945 --> 00:28:26,145
You know, providing that safe hiding spots
in a, in a, in an area where they can

506
00:28:26,145 --> 00:28:30,555
eat, but eat sustainably and not destroy
the regrowth of, of the kelp forest.

507
00:28:30,555 --> 00:28:33,585
So I think it's, it's a great point
that you, that you raise there.

508
00:28:33,615 --> 00:28:36,165
'cause you know, sometimes when
you see these things work and how

509
00:28:36,165 --> 00:28:40,455
fast they come back, you know,
kelp, forest kelp like, grow really

510
00:28:40,455 --> 00:28:42,015
fast and I don't think, you know.

511
00:28:42,075 --> 00:28:42,225
Yeah.

512
00:28:42,225 --> 00:28:46,875
So it's, it's a great, um, it's a great
organism to work with because they grow

513
00:28:46,875 --> 00:28:49,035
so fast, uh, and they grow so tall.

514
00:28:49,035 --> 00:28:50,205
So it's, it's great to see.

515
00:28:50,445 --> 00:28:53,415
You mentioned earlier, I, I wanna talk
about a little bit of that growth.

516
00:28:53,415 --> 00:28:55,695
'cause you mentioned earlier there's
a, there's an area that DFO lent,

517
00:28:56,055 --> 00:28:59,235
um, a, a sort of a structure, I
guess like a building that you can,

518
00:28:59,265 --> 00:29:05,745
that you can plant these, uh, how
long do you allow the kelp to grow?

519
00:29:06,629 --> 00:29:10,590
From, I guess seedling or property goal
to to, you know, to an out planting

520
00:29:10,590 --> 00:29:12,030
before you actually go put it out.

521
00:29:12,300 --> 00:29:14,100
Like, how long does it take to grow?

522
00:29:14,429 --> 00:29:15,350
Uh, And then, Yeah.

523
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:17,790
And when do you to, to a point where
you're like, okay, these are ready

524
00:29:17,790 --> 00:29:20,220
to go out to the, to the ocean Yeah.

525
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,300
Yeah, it's a great question.

526
00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:26,340
And, uh, we really enjoy giving, uh,
giving the odd tour, um, particularly

527
00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:30,300
to some of the school groups we've,
uh, uh, had at the kelp nursery.

528
00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:34,770
It's, uh, it's great to show people
the process, um, because it really is

529
00:29:34,770 --> 00:29:36,629
quite novel, uh, for a lot of people.

530
00:29:36,629 --> 00:29:41,010
And I have to give a lot of credit
to, uh, max and Dana on my team to c

531
00:29:41,010 --> 00:29:45,929
forestation to c forestation specialists
who have, uh, really led the work in the

532
00:29:45,929 --> 00:29:48,179
nursery over the last, uh, two years.

533
00:29:48,179 --> 00:29:51,899
And I would say almost the problem
we have is that we've become

534
00:29:51,899 --> 00:29:54,629
too good at growing kelp in the
nursery and it grew too quickly.

535
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:57,330
Um, and once you actually, uh.

536
00:29:57,750 --> 00:30:00,870
Refine and kind of, uh, nail
down the right conditions for

537
00:30:00,870 --> 00:30:02,340
kelp, it can really take off.

538
00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:05,400
So we probably would've, uh, we'll
probably move up our timelines

539
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,690
about two weeks for the next batch
that we will start, uh, in January.

540
00:30:10,170 --> 00:30:13,470
Um, but to answer your question,
it takes about six weeks.

541
00:30:13,470 --> 00:30:17,700
So, you know, the very, the overly
simplistic, uh, kind of steps of

542
00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:23,220
growing kelp in the nursery is, uh,
will go out, um, to a local population,

543
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:30,210
uh, of kelp in, uh, around late
September, mid-September, collect

544
00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:32,340
some of the sous, uh, from the blades.

545
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,820
And the sous is just where
kind of the, the reproductive

546
00:30:35,820 --> 00:30:37,920
tissue of the kelp, um, is.

547
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:42,990
And once we can, once we have that,
we'll take it back to the nursery.

548
00:30:42,990 --> 00:30:47,340
We'll kinda actually sterilize it
in iodine so that, uh, we kind of

549
00:30:47,340 --> 00:30:48,870
remove some of the other organisms.

550
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:52,500
We want the kelp to grow, but we don't
want everything, uh, else attached

551
00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:54,000
to the kelp to grow in the lab.

552
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:54,030
Okay.

553
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:54,930
Um, that we have.

554
00:30:54,930 --> 00:30:55,515
So we want to try and.

555
00:30:56,115 --> 00:30:57,765
Mitigate some of the other growth.

556
00:30:58,155 --> 00:31:03,795
And then actually we layer that
source, um, in, in paper towel, uh,

557
00:31:03,795 --> 00:31:05,745
overnight and put it in the fridge.

558
00:31:05,955 --> 00:31:09,135
And that kind of stresses the
kelp to release the spores.

559
00:31:09,645 --> 00:31:12,615
Then we come back the next day,
put it in a solution, put it in

560
00:31:12,615 --> 00:31:16,065
some sterilized sea water, and, uh,
the water instantly goes cloudy.

561
00:31:16,275 --> 00:31:17,565
And that's what we call kelp soup.

562
00:31:18,285 --> 00:31:22,245
And, and we've never, I don't
think anyone's ever tasted it.

563
00:31:22,275 --> 00:31:28,695
Um, but, uh, this is what we put on the,
on the cobbles, on the rocks, uh, which

564
00:31:28,695 --> 00:31:32,865
kind of are really the basis of the green
gravel technique that I mentioned earlier.

565
00:31:32,865 --> 00:31:32,925
Yeah.

566
00:31:32,925 --> 00:31:36,045
And we'll spray those spor,
we'll spray those four fights.

567
00:31:36,075 --> 00:31:41,355
Uh, the, the Mita fights on the, uh,
green on the boulders and essentially.

568
00:31:42,060 --> 00:31:45,360
There's a lot more to it in terms
of the monitoring and the nutrients

569
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:46,830
and the lights and the temperature.

570
00:31:46,830 --> 00:31:50,820
But, uh, after about five or six
weeks, we'll start to see just a little

571
00:31:50,820 --> 00:31:54,180
bit of fuzz on the rocks, and that's
the baby kelp that's growing there.

572
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,590
And then we can go and take those, uh,
rocks out to house sound as we did and

573
00:31:58,590 --> 00:32:00,360
place them at the restoration site.

574
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,080
So it's, um, it's become
quite a science Yeah.

575
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:04,530
For us.

576
00:32:04,530 --> 00:32:08,400
And I, you know, max and I were there,
uh, three years ago with the first

577
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,590
batch, having never grown kelp before.

578
00:32:10,590 --> 00:32:11,655
But uh, Yeah, when we saw.

579
00:32:12,405 --> 00:32:16,125
Uh, when we saw the first calp
underneath the microscope, uh, in

580
00:32:16,125 --> 00:32:21,495
the fall of 2023, we were, we were
delighted Um, So we've come a long ways.

581
00:32:21,915 --> 00:32:24,255
Well, even thinking like, I thought
they'd have to be a lot bigger.

582
00:32:24,255 --> 00:32:26,355
I thought they'd have to be,
you know, like, say like two

583
00:32:26,355 --> 00:32:27,525
feet or, or things like that.

584
00:32:27,525 --> 00:32:30,795
The fact that she's like, no, once they
start to, like, you start to see them on

585
00:32:30,795 --> 00:32:32,175
the rocks, you can just put the rocks.

586
00:32:32,235 --> 00:32:33,405
That's really cool.

587
00:32:33,405 --> 00:32:33,975
Mm-hmm.

588
00:32:34,215 --> 00:32:37,545
To see, And then it'll go,
it'll, it'll just grow from that.

589
00:32:37,845 --> 00:32:40,545
Um, I, I really, I, I
think that's amazing.

590
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,405
I, I didn't think it would
be that, that surprised me.

591
00:32:42,465 --> 00:32:42,945
That got me.

592
00:32:42,945 --> 00:32:43,005
Yeah.

593
00:32:43,035 --> 00:32:44,115
I wasn't, I wasn't ready for that.

594
00:32:44,115 --> 00:32:44,175
Yeah.

595
00:32:44,325 --> 00:32:44,805
That's pretty cool.

596
00:32:44,805 --> 00:32:44,995
That was cool.

597
00:32:45,940 --> 00:32:47,325
Uh, that's awesome.

598
00:32:47,655 --> 00:32:53,535
Uh, now we mentioned, you know, the,
the, the ecosystem services that kelp

599
00:32:53,535 --> 00:32:55,395
provide, which is, which is great.

600
00:32:55,725 --> 00:33:01,215
Um, and, but before, as we get into,
you know, growing them and you said,

601
00:33:01,215 --> 00:33:03,925
you know, you're going to monitor
them, you know, over the year mm-hmm.

602
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:04,080
Mm-hmm.

603
00:33:04,275 --> 00:33:06,585
As you, as you grow, um, as they grow.

604
00:33:06,990 --> 00:33:11,790
Uh, why is monitoring such an important,
like, standardized monitoring and

605
00:33:11,790 --> 00:33:14,880
like, there's a, there's a field guide,
uh, like, like there's a, there's a

606
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,360
guidebook, you know, that Ocean Wise
and, and Camp Force Alliance put out.

607
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,250
Why is that important, you know, to
use in the field for monitoring and why

608
00:33:23,250 --> 00:33:26,610
is standardized monitoring important
for this, this project or program?

609
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:27,330
Yeah.

610
00:33:27,330 --> 00:33:28,950
Um, also a great question.

611
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:32,130
I think that's, uh, and that this
is really a focus for us, uh, at

612
00:33:32,130 --> 00:33:35,340
Ocean Wise in the Sea Forestation
initiative, uh, over the next, uh,

613
00:33:35,340 --> 00:33:37,530
year and two and really beyond, and.

614
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,970
Even to go back to an earlier comment
that you mentioned at, uh, around the

615
00:33:41,970 --> 00:33:46,379
site and Barkley sound, um, around
kind of the biodiversity uplift.

616
00:33:46,740 --> 00:33:51,510
This is where we're going to be installing
an underwater camera, um, to monitor,

617
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,100
you know, the recovery of the kelp forest
and understand better kind of the urchin

618
00:33:56,100 --> 00:33:58,679
behavior and urchin dynamics as well.

619
00:33:58,709 --> 00:33:58,860
Yeah.

620
00:33:59,340 --> 00:34:03,750
Um, and it's gonna have Yeah, a live
stream to YouTube so people can know.

621
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:04,274
That's what I was waiting for.

622
00:34:04,544 --> 00:34:05,554
That was my next question.

623
00:34:05,895 --> 00:34:06,554
That's awesome.

624
00:34:07,290 --> 00:34:07,679
Yeah.

625
00:34:07,679 --> 00:34:11,009
And so we're, uh, yeah, we're
really excited about that.

626
00:34:11,009 --> 00:34:14,730
And uh, you know, I think there's,
there's certainly a very, uh, rigorous

627
00:34:14,730 --> 00:34:17,520
science component to that, but also
I think the communication and just

628
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,090
bringing people a little bit closer
to our work in a very remote part,

629
00:34:21,389 --> 00:34:25,529
um, on the west, uh, west side of
Vancouver Island there on Barkley sound.

630
00:34:25,529 --> 00:34:29,250
It's, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's,
it's difficult to get to and I think we.

631
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:35,580
We are trying our best to bring this work
a little bit closer to people in their

632
00:34:35,580 --> 00:34:37,350
everyday lives, make it more accessible.

633
00:34:37,380 --> 00:34:40,679
So, um, but that's a big
part of the monitoring piece.

634
00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:43,620
And we were delighted to publish
the monitoring, reporting and

635
00:34:43,620 --> 00:34:48,750
verification, uh, guidebook, uh, last
year with the Kelp Forest Alliance.

636
00:34:48,750 --> 00:34:52,650
Uh, they've been a strong supporter
of ours, and I would encourage

637
00:34:52,650 --> 00:34:55,259
folks if you're, if you are
interested in kelp restoration Yeah.

638
00:34:55,290 --> 00:34:56,940
To go check out, uh, the website.

639
00:34:56,940 --> 00:34:59,580
There's a lot of interesting
resources there and, and they're

640
00:34:59,580 --> 00:35:04,200
doing, uh, great work to kind of
coordinate the global community of

641
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,270
practice around kelp restoration.

642
00:35:06,299 --> 00:35:11,279
And they have a database there,
uh, to upload restoration projects.

643
00:35:11,279 --> 00:35:18,120
And really, one of the main motivations
to draft the MRV guidebook was to help

644
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:23,040
standardize the way that kelp forest
health are measured and monitored.

645
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:23,520
So that.

646
00:35:24,029 --> 00:35:28,319
Uh, when organizations, communities, and
other practitioners in this space are

647
00:35:28,319 --> 00:35:33,150
uploading their data, hopefully the idea
is that more of it would be used or would

648
00:35:33,150 --> 00:35:34,950
be collected using the same methods.

649
00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:39,210
So we can compare more easily,
apples to apples, oranges to oranges,

650
00:35:39,210 --> 00:35:43,860
And then hopefully understand, uh,
a little bit better about which

651
00:35:43,860 --> 00:35:47,730
techniques have worked best and which,
where there's room for improvement.

652
00:35:47,730 --> 00:35:52,140
And really to help the, the sharing
of knowledge and lessons learned.

653
00:35:52,140 --> 00:35:57,000
So, um, you know, the monitoring for
us is extremely important to understand

654
00:35:57,060 --> 00:35:59,040
what has been working and what has not.

655
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,990
I think it's just as important.

656
00:36:01,049 --> 00:36:04,650
Uh, you know, we, we have a,
we've set a culture inside the

657
00:36:04,650 --> 00:36:08,490
organization, organization and inside
the initiative that, you know, we

658
00:36:08,490 --> 00:36:12,299
need to fail fast and learn from
those mistakes and build off that.

659
00:36:12,299 --> 00:36:13,319
But we also don't wanna.

660
00:36:13,875 --> 00:36:15,134
Duplicate the wheel.

661
00:36:15,134 --> 00:36:20,715
So, you know, under having those
databases, like with the KFA and also

662
00:36:20,715 --> 00:36:24,285
some of the regional hubs that, uh, and
communities of practice that we're a part

663
00:36:24,285 --> 00:36:30,075
of, kind of allow us to allocate time
and resources in the most effective way.

664
00:36:30,375 --> 00:36:35,145
Um, and uh, and I guess even just to
add onto that quickly, you know, the

665
00:36:35,145 --> 00:36:40,845
monitoring is important from all, both
kind of a carbon drawdown point of view.

666
00:36:40,845 --> 00:36:44,505
You know, we'd be interested to help or
we'd be interested to start understanding

667
00:36:44,505 --> 00:36:49,965
a little bit more, uh, in detail
the carbon stock of the kelp forest.

668
00:36:50,115 --> 00:36:50,175
Yeah.

669
00:36:50,265 --> 00:36:53,565
As well as the biodiversity
gains that we see between an

670
00:36:53,565 --> 00:36:55,515
urchin baron and a kelp forest.

671
00:36:55,725 --> 00:37:00,045
And then also the social and cultural
value, um, to the forest, to communities

672
00:37:00,045 --> 00:37:04,935
and, and indigenous nations that,
um, have used kelp forests in a

673
00:37:04,935 --> 00:37:07,425
variety of ways, um, for millennia.

674
00:37:08,370 --> 00:37:11,040
It's, it's really interesting you
meant that It's leading into my,

675
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,250
you my storyline is perfect with you
because you lead right into my next

676
00:37:14,250 --> 00:37:15,840
question, which is, which is fantastic.

677
00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:20,730
Um, I, I was gonna ask about, you know,
the, the, the biological or ecological

678
00:37:20,730 --> 00:37:24,330
goals And then of course the climate
related goals, which is such an important

679
00:37:24,330 --> 00:37:28,380
part these days as we're really starting
to see climate change rear its ugly head

680
00:37:28,380 --> 00:37:30,090
in, in the consequences that we're seeing.

681
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,570
Kelp forests are such an important, they
play such an important role for carbon

682
00:37:33,570 --> 00:37:37,560
capture and climate mitigation, but they
also play a role in, in sort of like

683
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,810
biodiversity and habitat restoration.

684
00:37:40,830 --> 00:37:43,140
Do you have to balance those goals?

685
00:37:43,770 --> 00:37:45,569
Is that something that
you have to worry about?

686
00:37:45,689 --> 00:37:46,740
Are there trade-offs?

687
00:37:46,740 --> 00:37:50,399
Like in certain areas, you're, you're
more hopeful for carbon capture,

688
00:37:50,399 --> 00:37:54,089
so maybe there's a species that's a
little bit better in carbon capture,

689
00:37:54,330 --> 00:37:57,839
or there's a species that's a little
bit better in fostering biodiversity

690
00:37:57,839 --> 00:37:59,700
and, and more of that, that builder.

691
00:37:59,939 --> 00:38:03,540
Um, I don't know much about the, the,
the interplay between the species,

692
00:38:03,540 --> 00:38:06,390
and of course it'll depend on where
you're restoring because you want

693
00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:07,589
native species and things like that.

694
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:10,290
But I guess the, the original question
is like, do you have to have, do you

695
00:38:10,290 --> 00:38:14,160
have to balance those, the ecological
goals and the climate related goals?

696
00:38:16,169 --> 00:38:17,430
Yeah, it's a good question.

697
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:22,589
I wouldn't say, um, I wouldn't
say that we, I wouldn't say

698
00:38:22,589 --> 00:38:24,480
that there's many trade offs.

699
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,025
I mean, I guess if you wanted to use some.

700
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,700
Extreme examples, but this
wouldn't really be restoration.

701
00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:32,879
I mean, there are some groups who have
tried growing seaweed in the ocean,

702
00:38:32,939 --> 00:38:38,040
open ocean and sinking it, you know,
as a way, as kind of a CDR technique.

703
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:38,604
So yeah.

704
00:38:38,850 --> 00:38:43,859
Um, you know, that there's, there's
pros and cons around that, I think.

705
00:38:43,859 --> 00:38:44,129
Absolutely.

706
00:38:44,459 --> 00:38:48,299
You know, I think, I think there's
probably more, there's better ways to,

707
00:38:48,359 --> 00:38:51,330
to use that seaweed in that biomass,
and there's probably for sure more

708
00:38:51,330 --> 00:38:55,470
effective ways to, to pull carbon in a,
in a better way out of the atmosphere.

709
00:38:55,470 --> 00:38:59,490
But, uh, you know, I, I'm also not closing
the door on any options because we really

710
00:38:59,490 --> 00:39:03,964
do need kind of, uh, everything in front
of us and all hands on deck, um, in,

711
00:39:04,109 --> 00:39:05,490
in the fight against climate change.

712
00:39:05,490 --> 00:39:10,290
So, um, but for us, I mean, we're focused,
um, we're focused on the resiliency and

713
00:39:10,290 --> 00:39:15,240
the health of the kelp forest And then,
you know, all the associated benefits

714
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:21,990
that come after that, um, uh, are, are
really just kind of the, the positive

715
00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:24,180
outcomes that, that we're hoping for.

716
00:39:25,425 --> 00:39:28,185
You know, kelp as a, as a climate ally.

717
00:39:28,185 --> 00:39:32,895
Certainly I would say five years
ago, um, maybe a little bit longer,

718
00:39:32,895 --> 00:39:36,675
it was, uh, there was a real buzz
around kelp is kind of a, a climate

719
00:39:36,675 --> 00:39:38,295
change ally in silver bullet.

720
00:39:38,295 --> 00:39:39,375
And it certainly is.

721
00:39:39,375 --> 00:39:39,435
Yeah.

722
00:39:39,435 --> 00:39:45,135
But I, you know, it's not, it's
not going to, uh, sequester as much

723
00:39:45,135 --> 00:39:47,715
carbon perhaps as some people thought.

724
00:39:47,925 --> 00:39:49,725
Um, you know, it does grow very quickly.

725
00:39:49,725 --> 00:39:53,265
It can grow up to a foot or 45
centimeters a day with some species.

726
00:39:53,505 --> 00:39:56,535
It can draw down a lot of carbon.

727
00:39:56,865 --> 00:40:01,815
Um, but what percent of that gets buried
in ocean sediments or exported to the deep

728
00:40:01,815 --> 00:40:06,060
abyss and how much is actually sequestered
for longer periods of time mm-hmm.

729
00:40:06,060 --> 00:40:06,380
Is a really.

730
00:40:07,110 --> 00:40:09,270
Difficult question to answer.

731
00:40:09,330 --> 00:40:09,450
Mm-hmm.

732
00:40:09,870 --> 00:40:14,400
And that's why the kind of the carbon
credit market for kelp forests have,

733
00:40:14,430 --> 00:40:17,790
uh, have not really become mature yet.

734
00:40:17,910 --> 00:40:18,570
Um, right.

735
00:40:19,650 --> 00:40:23,610
So yeah, our focus is more
so on the biodiversity.

736
00:40:23,610 --> 00:40:29,280
We really want to get a better grasp
of those benefits, um, and, and other

737
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,380
ecosystem services down the road.

738
00:40:31,410 --> 00:40:31,470
Yeah.

739
00:40:31,770 --> 00:40:37,140
Um, but right now, I, you know, within the
Sea Forestation initiative, we're treating

740
00:40:37,140 --> 00:40:40,470
kind of the carbon and the climate piece
as a little bit of the cherry on top.

741
00:40:40,650 --> 00:40:41,940
Um, the rest of it for sure.

742
00:40:42,060 --> 00:40:42,240
Yeah.

743
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:44,970
I mean, you're getting, you're kind
of getting both when you do it,

744
00:40:45,060 --> 00:40:48,900
you know, and that's, that's the
benefit of, of, of growing kelp.

745
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,750
Uh, you know, we focus, I, and as
a biologist, you know, obviously

746
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:53,460
I focus on the ecological goals.

747
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,420
Uh, we've talked about climate, we
haven't talked about the benefits

748
00:40:57,420 --> 00:40:59,400
to sort of the social benefits.

749
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,030
So the be benefits to indigenous
communities, the benefits

750
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:04,530
to communities at large.

751
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:05,640
Um, you know.

752
00:41:06,195 --> 00:41:12,435
How are those incorporated into the Sea
Forestation program to ensure that, you

753
00:41:12,435 --> 00:41:17,325
know, uh, you know, social dimensions,
so social dimensions are included?

754
00:41:18,075 --> 00:41:18,404
Mm-hmm.

755
00:41:18,975 --> 00:41:21,315
Yeah, it's also, also a great question.

756
00:41:21,315 --> 00:41:24,884
Um, you know, I think we've, uh, we've.

757
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,830
We've done some great work with
the Scha First Nation to bring

758
00:41:28,830 --> 00:41:32,850
out some, uh, some youth from the
community with us on the boats.

759
00:41:32,850 --> 00:41:34,740
You know, as we go to
the restoration sites.

760
00:41:34,740 --> 00:41:39,600
We had, um, help from three wonderful high
school students, uh, last year who were,

761
00:41:39,870 --> 00:41:42,840
uh, you know, kind of rolling up their
sleeves and getting their hands dirty.

762
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,860
And I Nice, uh, really, uh,
hats off, uh, to them 'cause it

763
00:41:46,860 --> 00:41:48,420
was hard work for a few days.

764
00:41:48,810 --> 00:41:51,810
I think that's an, an important
opportunity, you know, particularly

765
00:41:51,810 --> 00:41:55,740
with, uh, with young people and
young professionals to showcase

766
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,840
various careers and conservations.

767
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,040
I mean, uh, there's a lot of different,
uh, there's a lot of different

768
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:03,750
career pathways for young people.

769
00:42:04,260 --> 00:42:08,640
Um, and I know that, uh, you know,
in, in rural and remote communities,

770
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,090
you know, these types of, uh, jobs can
provide some really great livelihoods

771
00:42:12,090 --> 00:42:16,380
for folks, um, in the communities where
perhaps there's, uh, more limited options.

772
00:42:17,145 --> 00:42:20,775
And I think with the nation, um, you
know, I wouldn't, uh, wanna speak

773
00:42:20,775 --> 00:42:24,705
on their behalf, but I, I know that,
uh, we have been fortunate to spend

774
00:42:24,705 --> 00:42:28,305
some time with, uh, with some of
the elders at the s at First Nation.

775
00:42:28,305 --> 00:42:32,205
And, um, you know, to summarize
or to paraphrase a little bit, I

776
00:42:32,205 --> 00:42:36,525
mean, thankful that, uh, we're out
there and we're trying to do some of

777
00:42:36,525 --> 00:42:41,535
that work with them, but also, um,
wanting to lead that work themselves.

778
00:42:41,685 --> 00:42:46,545
And that's, uh, that goes towards the
restoration activities and the monitoring.

779
00:42:46,965 --> 00:42:53,325
Um, and we've been, uh, really,
really pleased to work as closely

780
00:42:53,325 --> 00:42:54,675
as we have with the nation.

781
00:42:54,675 --> 00:42:56,385
But we're, we've got some funding to.

782
00:42:56,790 --> 00:43:00,150
Provide some other dive training,
uh, for community members.

783
00:43:00,180 --> 00:43:05,670
And that's part of the capacity building,
uh, within the nation that we, we hope,

784
00:43:05,790 --> 00:43:13,260
um, will kind of, uh, allow more of the,
more of the, the nation to, uh, lead more

785
00:43:13,260 --> 00:43:17,760
of the activities in Barclay sound at the
restoration sites through the actual, um,

786
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:21,750
delivery of the restoration activities
and the monitoring and the reporting.

787
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:24,480
There's a whole bunch of
interesting data analysis work

788
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:25,680
that we're gonna have to have done.

789
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:31,290
And, um, I think the, the cultural
value of kelp has been there within

790
00:43:31,290 --> 00:43:36,540
the community, uh, for a very long
time and something that we're, um,

791
00:43:36,545 --> 00:43:38,730
excited to, to kind of help grow again.

792
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:39,900
Yeah.

793
00:43:39,905 --> 00:43:43,950
And, and growing this, this Sea
Forestation program, are there specific,

794
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,890
I guess, economic or, or policy
mechanisms that will, that like, are

795
00:43:49,890 --> 00:43:52,050
essential for scaling this program?

796
00:43:52,965 --> 00:43:53,385
Hmm.

797
00:43:53,475 --> 00:43:55,845
Yeah, so that's interesting.

798
00:43:55,875 --> 00:43:56,745
Interesting question.

799
00:43:56,745 --> 00:44:00,825
I, I just had a very interesting
conversation with, uh, with

800
00:44:00,825 --> 00:44:06,015
someone about kind of the economic
benefits of restoring kelp forests.

801
00:44:06,105 --> 00:44:06,165
Yeah.

802
00:44:06,165 --> 00:44:09,585
And that's something that,
um, you know, I, the federal

803
00:44:09,585 --> 00:44:11,355
government is more interested in.

804
00:44:11,385 --> 00:44:16,785
Um, you know, I think it started,
um, in some ways with the 30 by

805
00:44:16,785 --> 00:44:20,385
30 agenda and creating more MPAs.

806
00:44:20,385 --> 00:44:27,315
But I think there's a little bit more,
um, desire to understand, okay, the

807
00:44:27,315 --> 00:44:30,585
MPA has, the Marine protected area
has been created, but what is the

808
00:44:30,585 --> 00:44:32,475
economic benefit associated with that?

809
00:44:32,685 --> 00:44:35,505
How do you measure the
conservation benefit of that?

810
00:44:36,015 --> 00:44:41,715
And I think right now, you know, the
ecosystem services of kelp, there's,

811
00:44:42,135 --> 00:44:46,095
uh, it's almost, it's certainly
an underestimation, but, um, Dr.

812
00:44:46,095 --> 00:44:49,365
Aaron Eger, um, who is the executive
director of the Kelp Forest

813
00:44:49,365 --> 00:44:50,625
Alliance, I mentioned earlier.

814
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:55,650
Uh, released a paper last year with an
estimate of some of the ecosystem services

815
00:44:55,650 --> 00:44:58,530
values of different species of kelp.

816
00:44:58,890 --> 00:45:04,200
And the rough numbers were, uh,
that each hectare of kelp per year

817
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:11,640
produces around 60 to $145,000
us, um, per hectare per year.

818
00:45:12,030 --> 00:45:15,840
And that's just accounting for
some of the fishery supports

819
00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:19,500
And then some of the carbon
sequestration and nitrogen fixation.

820
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:24,420
So, you know, all of the other ecosystem
services values is not included in that.

821
00:45:24,420 --> 00:45:29,310
So that's why I, I say that number is,
is likely an underestimation, but our

822
00:45:29,310 --> 00:45:34,890
issue right now is that we can't bring
that ecosystem services value into

823
00:45:34,890 --> 00:45:36,900
these projects in a meaningful way.

824
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,610
And until we do that, I think
it's going to be difficult to have

825
00:45:41,610 --> 00:45:46,770
the budgets and the financing to
scale restoration, um, to, uh, a

826
00:45:46,770 --> 00:45:49,470
really globally significant level.

827
00:45:49,905 --> 00:45:54,825
Um, because we, because they're
chronically undervalued, you know, is

828
00:45:54,825 --> 00:46:00,225
really the issue, you know, and, and if
they are producing a hundred or $150,000

829
00:46:00,225 --> 00:46:05,895
per year in ecosystem services, um, then
how do we, how do we make the business

830
00:46:05,895 --> 00:46:12,855
case to the right investors or whatever
to actually invest in kelp forest because

831
00:46:12,855 --> 00:46:16,425
they are really one of the greatest
investments we can make in the ocean.

832
00:46:17,025 --> 00:46:18,375
Yeah, no abs absolutely.

833
00:46:18,375 --> 00:46:19,515
They, they definitely are.

834
00:46:19,515 --> 00:46:22,845
It's, it's something I think you get, you
get your, your best bang for your buck,

835
00:46:22,845 --> 00:46:25,305
I feel, with, uh, with, with Kelp Forest.

836
00:46:25,305 --> 00:46:28,635
So I think it's, that's our new logo
on the Sea Forestation initiative is,

837
00:46:29,235 --> 00:46:30,705
uh, kelp is the best bang for the buck.

838
00:46:30,705 --> 00:46:32,205
So I love it.

839
00:46:32,295 --> 00:46:32,925
I love it.

840
00:46:32,925 --> 00:46:37,875
I mean, you know, I just, you look in a
kelp forest, I, I live in, just outside

841
00:46:37,875 --> 00:46:40,635
of Toronto and I go into the, uh.

842
00:46:41,174 --> 00:46:42,150
The, the aquarium, the Ripley's Aquarium.

843
00:46:43,290 --> 00:46:43,410
Yeah.

844
00:46:43,410 --> 00:46:47,610
They have a great display for,
for, uh, for kelp forests.

845
00:46:47,910 --> 00:46:51,630
You see all the species that are there,
like just the fish species, they're

846
00:46:51,630 --> 00:46:54,810
not talk, they didn't, they don't
show sort of the invertebrate species.

847
00:46:54,810 --> 00:46:58,170
They don't show, you know, the Marine
mammals that are, that live in there

848
00:46:58,170 --> 00:47:02,340
and that, that thrive in there, you
know, the sea stars And so forth.

849
00:47:02,370 --> 00:47:07,350
It is such an important aspect
to, uh, you know, for stability,

850
00:47:07,350 --> 00:47:09,900
for biodiversity, for security.

851
00:47:10,110 --> 00:47:12,000
Uh, it is just, it's just great.

852
00:47:12,450 --> 00:47:16,799
Um, but, you know, there's a lot of
things that go with, with restoration.

853
00:47:16,799 --> 00:47:19,710
It's not as easy as we're
making it sound right now.

854
00:47:19,710 --> 00:47:23,040
You know, you've talked about some
of the, the, the physical, you know,

855
00:47:23,340 --> 00:47:26,395
problems with that, but you know,
what, what are some of the like.

856
00:47:27,255 --> 00:47:31,245
The biggest scientific or even
practical uncertainties when we look

857
00:47:31,245 --> 00:47:34,545
at global kelp restoration right now.

858
00:47:34,549 --> 00:47:34,730
Mm-hmm.

859
00:47:34,810 --> 00:47:35,170
Like the efforts.

860
00:47:35,235 --> 00:47:35,325
Mm-hmm.

861
00:47:35,325 --> 00:47:38,895
So like, is it genetics, is it
resilience, monitoring, or resilience

862
00:47:38,895 --> 00:47:44,535
or monitoring ecosystem interactions,
invasive species like climate change.

863
00:47:44,595 --> 00:47:47,865
What are some of the things that
are really hindering or some of the

864
00:47:47,865 --> 00:47:52,125
biggest barriers, uh, towards, uh,
restorations and kelp restoration?

865
00:47:53,025 --> 00:47:53,565
Yeah.

866
00:47:53,565 --> 00:47:56,415
Well, I mean, unfortunately it's
a little bit of all the above.

867
00:47:56,415 --> 00:47:57,210
All of the above.

868
00:47:57,915 --> 00:47:57,975
Yeah.

869
00:47:57,975 --> 00:48:02,715
And I, uh, you know, I think, uh,
certainly, you know, I've sound like

870
00:48:02,715 --> 00:48:07,515
a broken record probably on, on the
funding piece, but, um, you know,

871
00:48:07,515 --> 00:48:09,705
we, it is, it is expensive work.

872
00:48:09,705 --> 00:48:11,174
These are remote locations.

873
00:48:11,174 --> 00:48:16,455
And I think, you know, the, the
rough stat is that about 95% of

874
00:48:16,455 --> 00:48:20,715
kelp restoration projects are one
or two hectares in size because.

875
00:48:21,450 --> 00:48:24,690
They're quite expensive, you
know, to, to operate and to do,

876
00:48:24,750 --> 00:48:26,160
uh, to kind of grow at scale.

877
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,690
So there's certainly a financial
component, but I think as we, as we

878
00:48:30,690 --> 00:48:35,940
look to the future, it's, uh, you know,
we've got questions around where are

879
00:48:35,940 --> 00:48:39,780
the best places to focus restoration
efforts in a world, uh, in a warming

880
00:48:39,780 --> 00:48:41,850
world, and warming, warming ocean.

881
00:48:41,940 --> 00:48:46,500
Um, we've got an interesting project
with, uh, with the University of British

882
00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:51,810
Columbia and the University of Victoria
to do some past modeling of kind of the,

883
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:58,770
of kelp forest, uh, spatial extents,
um, in bc but also, And then kind of

884
00:48:58,770 --> 00:49:02,100
looking forward under a few different
climate scenarios, where might we,

885
00:49:02,100 --> 00:49:06,480
our efforts be best placed and other
efforts be best placed in the province

886
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,340
to, uh, focus on restoration efforts?

887
00:49:08,340 --> 00:49:11,970
Because there is a thermal tolerance
that kelp has, and above that,

888
00:49:12,030 --> 00:49:15,000
above that temperature, it cannot
reproduce, it cannot survive.

889
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:15,120
And.

890
00:49:15,450 --> 00:49:19,770
It's what we've seen, um, in certain
spots, uh, throughout the province.

891
00:49:19,770 --> 00:49:22,740
You know, most notably I'd say
in the state of Georgia, we are

892
00:49:22,740 --> 00:49:24,390
seeing much higher temperatures.

893
00:49:24,990 --> 00:49:30,000
And so then it, it also goes into the
question of, you know, what kind of, um,

894
00:49:30,029 --> 00:49:33,690
selective adaptation we might pursue.

895
00:49:33,690 --> 00:49:36,690
There's, there's kind of a
genetic, there's a genetics part

896
00:49:36,690 --> 00:49:40,319
of this, which is I think, quite
controversial and rightly so.

897
00:49:40,319 --> 00:49:44,669
But, you know, how do we protect, protect
the genetic diversity of BC's, kelp

898
00:49:44,669 --> 00:49:50,370
forest, but also how do we best, um,
set ourselves up for a warmer world?

899
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,180
And there are pockets of kelp that
have proven to be perhaps a little bit

900
00:49:54,180 --> 00:49:55,919
more resilient to higher temperatures.

901
00:49:56,250 --> 00:50:00,660
You know, should that, should those
genetics kind of act as the foundation

902
00:50:00,660 --> 00:50:02,490
for future restoration efforts?

903
00:50:02,940 --> 00:50:07,770
Um, you know, these are, these are, these
are hotly contested questions for sure.

904
00:50:07,770 --> 00:50:08,250
That's for sure.

905
00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:11,460
And I, I think they
deserve a lot of scrutiny.

906
00:50:11,460 --> 00:50:12,180
But, um.

907
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,450
You know, I think we, we do need
to recognize that things are

908
00:50:15,450 --> 00:50:17,100
changing very quickly around us.

909
00:50:17,100 --> 00:50:20,459
So, um, you know, there's
a regulatory component.

910
00:50:20,700 --> 00:50:23,459
You know, I would, uh, I would
argue that Kelp has really flown

911
00:50:23,459 --> 00:50:28,799
under the radar and most global
environmental, um, uh, agreements.

912
00:50:28,799 --> 00:50:34,620
And, you know, I'm not exactly, don't
quote me on this, uh, uh, a hundred

913
00:50:34,620 --> 00:50:37,830
percent, but I know kelp has received
just a fraction of the funding

914
00:50:37,830 --> 00:50:39,629
that Coral reefs have, for example.

915
00:50:39,870 --> 00:50:43,350
Um, despite kind of having kind
of a five to seven times larger

916
00:50:43,350 --> 00:50:44,669
area than coral reef reefs.

917
00:50:44,669 --> 00:50:48,629
And I don't wanna get all the coral
reef, uh, restoration folks angry at me.

918
00:50:48,629 --> 00:50:51,404
I'm not picking, I'm not picking
a fight, but, um, absolutely,

919
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:52,649
totally agree with you.

920
00:50:52,649 --> 00:50:53,009
Totally.

921
00:50:53,009 --> 00:50:54,270
Couldn't agree more with you.

922
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:57,660
Yeah, no, it's, it's, uh, yeah, you
know, we need to, we need to increase

923
00:50:57,660 --> 00:50:59,520
that funding for kelp forests as well.

924
00:50:59,520 --> 00:50:59,669
For sure.

925
00:50:59,759 --> 00:51:03,629
Um, you know, they cover, um,
30% of the world's coastline, so,

926
00:51:03,689 --> 00:51:06,390
um, not insignificant for sure.

927
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,170
You know, looking at, you know, we
talked about funding, we talked a lot

928
00:51:10,170 --> 00:51:14,670
of, a lot of the, the barriers, uh,
facing it, uh, facing kelp restoration.

929
00:51:14,730 --> 00:51:21,960
Looking forward, past, say 2030, what does
success look like for sea forestation?

930
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:23,700
You know, like what are we looking at?

931
00:51:23,700 --> 00:51:28,290
Scale outcomes change you would make,
uh, you know, cons like that, that

932
00:51:28,290 --> 00:51:32,250
you would make or would make use,
say like consider ca sea forestation

933
00:51:32,250 --> 00:51:33,960
as a win for oceans and climate.

934
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:35,640
Yeah.

935
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,555
I think, you know, beyond
2030, I think we would, uh.

936
00:51:39,569 --> 00:51:43,680
Uh, be able to look at, you know,
hundreds if not thousands of restoration

937
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:48,509
projects, you know, at the community
level where kelp forests are, are thriving

938
00:51:48,509 --> 00:51:53,549
again, and, and resilience and really
having the data to, to back that up.

939
00:51:53,549 --> 00:51:58,439
You know, being able to kind of visualize
the, the success, um, of that work and

940
00:51:58,439 --> 00:52:03,870
having kind of a, a co-managed and,
you know, a local solution to some of

941
00:52:03,870 --> 00:52:08,069
these issues because there's no one
right way to go about kelp restoration

942
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:13,350
and, and, uh, folks with, uh, with
local knowledge, uh, and the history

943
00:52:13,350 --> 00:52:17,339
of, of the place will best know how to
go about and what's most appropriate.

944
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:23,160
Um, you know, I, I think the work that the
KFA and, and others are doing is great in

945
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,609
terms of connecting the global community
of practice around kelp restoration.

946
00:52:26,609 --> 00:52:30,540
I'd like to see that, um, you know,
strengthen these local regional

947
00:52:30,540 --> 00:52:33,720
networks that we're a part of,
um, are growing and strengthening.

948
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:34,200
More people are.

949
00:52:34,965 --> 00:52:36,375
Into, into kelp.

950
00:52:36,375 --> 00:52:40,125
I was actually, uh, well, max, Dana
and I were lucky enough to go to the

951
00:52:40,125 --> 00:52:45,045
International Seaweed Symposium, uh,
this year in Victoria in May, and it

952
00:52:45,045 --> 00:52:50,865
was, uh, it's kind of like the Olympics
of seaweed where there's 500 PhDs and in

953
00:52:50,865 --> 00:52:55,125
psychology and, and seaweed, uh, that,
uh, we're just so impressive and there's

954
00:52:55,125 --> 00:52:59,445
so much interest, interesting research,
uh, going on in the area so that, that

955
00:52:59,445 --> 00:53:01,665
needs to continue to, uh, to develop.

956
00:53:02,415 --> 00:53:07,905
And I would say, um, you know, the
alignment with the government regulations

957
00:53:07,905 --> 00:53:13,305
and the regulatory frameworks, um,
you know, to, uh, to support the

958
00:53:13,305 --> 00:53:17,295
restoration work that is going on
in, in the near shore ecosystems

959
00:53:17,295 --> 00:53:19,875
and, and around, uh, around Canada.

960
00:53:19,935 --> 00:53:25,605
Really, I would say that, uh, we,
we could be, uh, doing a bit more

961
00:53:25,605 --> 00:53:29,985
to remove some of the challenges
facing restoration organizations.

962
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,100
Um, on that side of things.

963
00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:35,220
And then, and really once we, you know,
if we can get alignment on some of

964
00:53:35,220 --> 00:53:39,090
the funding and the regulatory piece
and, and the community buy-in, then I

965
00:53:39,090 --> 00:53:43,620
think the door opens for, uh, really
significant success in the coming years.

966
00:53:45,180 --> 00:53:46,950
I'm a science communicator, right?

967
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:47,760
That's what I do.

968
00:53:47,765 --> 00:53:49,140
This is the podcast.

969
00:53:49,140 --> 00:53:50,640
It's to inform people.

970
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,500
I have a lot of early career researchers.

971
00:53:52,500 --> 00:53:55,560
I have a lot of, and scientists
and conservationists.

972
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,660
I have a lot of people
who are activists on here.

973
00:53:57,900 --> 00:54:00,150
I have a lot of people who are just
interested in knowing what they can

974
00:54:00,150 --> 00:54:01,800
do to, to live for a better ocean.

975
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,390
That's my, that's my my tagline.

976
00:54:03,390 --> 00:54:03,480
Mm-hmm.

977
00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:07,740
As a science communicator, and I have
a lot of fellow science communicators.

978
00:54:08,190 --> 00:54:13,950
What can we do, what do you think we
can do to, to build sort of that broader

979
00:54:13,950 --> 00:54:18,090
public awareness for these underwater
forests and, and the restoration that's

980
00:54:18,090 --> 00:54:20,520
so important to keep these forests going?

981
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:22,350
Yeah.

982
00:54:22,350 --> 00:54:23,010
Great question.

983
00:54:23,010 --> 00:54:24,210
And it's, it's, uh.

984
00:54:24,750 --> 00:54:28,770
We have, uh, we've also struggled,
I would say, because it's hard

985
00:54:28,770 --> 00:54:31,410
to bring people to kelp forests.

986
00:54:31,410 --> 00:54:34,980
You know, I, um, they're,
they're, they're under the water.

987
00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:38,550
It's often quite cold, uh,
and et cetera, et cetera.

988
00:54:38,550 --> 00:54:42,810
So, I mean, one way that, uh, we have
done this at Ocean Wise is through

989
00:54:42,810 --> 00:54:44,820
our mobile education programs.

990
00:54:44,820 --> 00:54:45,220
We have our.

991
00:54:45,785 --> 00:54:49,835
Our sea dome, which is, uh, a
bit, uh, like an inflatable dome.

992
00:54:49,835 --> 00:54:54,904
You can fit about 30 kids inside and
there's a 360 degree 4K video that

993
00:54:54,904 --> 00:54:56,884
projects on the inside of the dome.

994
00:54:57,245 --> 00:54:59,075
And so it's kind of
like you're underwater.

995
00:54:59,075 --> 00:55:03,904
And, uh, it's been extremely successful,
uh, over the last few years, uh,

996
00:55:03,935 --> 00:55:07,355
reaching, uh, tens of thousands
of, of students across Canada.

997
00:55:07,865 --> 00:55:10,924
Um, And so that's one way that we're
trying, I think, you know, there's,

998
00:55:10,924 --> 00:55:14,645
uh, I recently saw some virtual
reality headsets that you can, uh,

999
00:55:14,674 --> 00:55:18,095
put on and you dive underneath the
water and through the kelp forest.

1000
00:55:18,095 --> 00:55:21,605
And I think that's one of the
most immersive, really, really

1001
00:55:21,605 --> 00:55:22,745
moving ways to go about it.

1002
00:55:23,045 --> 00:55:23,285
Yeah.

1003
00:55:23,285 --> 00:55:25,535
Talk about connecting to the ocean, right.

1004
00:55:25,535 --> 00:55:26,225
Without getting wet.

1005
00:55:26,279 --> 00:55:26,480
Yeah.

1006
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:28,759
Like it's such a, it's it's really Yeah.

1007
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:29,480
Yeah.

1008
00:55:29,674 --> 00:55:30,964
It's, it's really incredible.

1009
00:55:30,970 --> 00:55:35,855
Um, yeah, Um, So I would say, you know,
continue, you know, from, from a science

1010
00:55:35,855 --> 00:55:41,615
communication standpoint, I think, uh,
continuing to bring guests on who can talk

1011
00:55:41,615 --> 00:55:44,855
about kelp forest and their importance
in different ways, I think we need to.

1012
00:55:45,195 --> 00:55:49,215
Raise awareness around just how important
kelp forests are and what they provide.

1013
00:55:49,275 --> 00:55:53,775
Um, uh, you know, not that they,
there's also a, just a wonderful

1014
00:55:53,775 --> 00:55:55,545
intrinsic value to kelp forests.

1015
00:55:55,545 --> 00:55:59,835
But, um, you know, from a more, from
a kind of an objective standpoint,

1016
00:55:59,835 --> 00:56:04,575
they provide just so much benefit
to, to humanity that, um, it's,

1017
00:56:04,575 --> 00:56:08,535
it's very much in our best interest,
uh, to, to protect and restore.

1018
00:56:09,255 --> 00:56:14,055
And, uh, I would say try and, uh, try
and learn more about kelp in your region.

1019
00:56:14,055 --> 00:56:18,045
You know, if you are near, if you
are near the ocean, um, you know, go

1020
00:56:18,045 --> 00:56:21,565
along the shoreline and see what, uh,
type of seaweed or kelp is washed up.

1021
00:56:21,795 --> 00:56:27,045
You know, it's, it's, uh, sometimes I feel
like it's, uh, it's not that well known.

1022
00:56:27,045 --> 00:56:29,325
People are stepping on it
and maybe slipping on it.

1023
00:56:29,325 --> 00:56:32,445
Uh, sure if they take the wrong
step, but, uh, these are really

1024
00:56:32,445 --> 00:56:36,525
important, uh, species and ecosystems
that are usually pretty close by

1025
00:56:36,525 --> 00:56:40,170
if you're, if you're somewhere near
the ocean in Canada, that's amazing.

1026
00:56:40,605 --> 00:56:43,245
So, you know, are you a diver, snorkeler?

1027
00:56:43,904 --> 00:56:44,984
Yeah, I do both.

1028
00:56:44,984 --> 00:56:45,225
Yeah.

1029
00:56:45,315 --> 00:56:46,154
Okay, perfect.

1030
00:56:46,154 --> 00:56:52,484
When you, if, if you've gone diving on
a, on a kelp forest, uh, what, what's,

1031
00:56:52,484 --> 00:56:55,875
when you go diving or when you're
in there, what's your favorite part

1032
00:56:56,714 --> 00:56:58,544
of, of, of diving in a kelp forest?

1033
00:56:58,544 --> 00:57:03,705
Like what do you look for or hope to see
every time you go diving on a kelp forest?

1034
00:57:04,274 --> 00:57:06,855
Yeah, it's a really special experience.

1035
00:57:06,884 --> 00:57:10,395
Um, I would, it's, it is really
like stepping into another world.

1036
00:57:10,395 --> 00:57:13,665
I mean, in a kelp forest, it's a,
it's a three dimensional structure.

1037
00:57:13,665 --> 00:57:17,325
You know, the light shines through and
just, you know, the most beautiful way.

1038
00:57:17,654 --> 00:57:20,174
Um, as long as the visibility is is good.

1039
00:57:20,294 --> 00:57:20,415
Yeah.

1040
00:57:20,419 --> 00:57:25,544
And, uh, you know, there's, they're just,
the, the abundance of the biodiversity

1041
00:57:25,544 --> 00:57:29,955
and other, and Marine species inside the
kelp forest is, uh, is, is so impressive.

1042
00:57:29,955 --> 00:57:32,504
You know, it, they're,
they're, they're kind of quiet.

1043
00:57:32,504 --> 00:57:35,024
It's a little bit hypnotic, you
know, they're waving back and

1044
00:57:35,024 --> 00:57:39,105
forth in the water and, uh, it's
just a very special experience.

1045
00:57:39,105 --> 00:57:42,194
So, you know, when I'm, when
I'm there, I'm just trying to.

1046
00:57:42,885 --> 00:57:44,865
Take it all in, be in the moment.

1047
00:57:44,895 --> 00:57:50,085
Um, you know, enjoy the, the rare kind
of, uh, time that I get to, to be in

1048
00:57:50,085 --> 00:57:52,515
the water and among, among the kelp.

1049
00:57:52,515 --> 00:57:55,035
I know, uh, max and Dana are
kind of in there a little bit

1050
00:57:55,035 --> 00:57:57,345
more, uh, than, than I am.

1051
00:57:57,345 --> 00:57:59,625
But I'm trying to, to change that.

1052
00:57:59,715 --> 00:58:03,705
And, uh, I think, I think ultimately
they just give me hope, you know?

1053
00:58:03,710 --> 00:58:03,740
Yeah.

1054
00:58:03,745 --> 00:58:06,435
I think that's, they're,
they're just, they're such a,

1055
00:58:06,525 --> 00:58:08,295
they're such a positive aspect.

1056
00:58:08,565 --> 00:58:08,655
Mm-hmm.

1057
00:58:09,135 --> 00:58:12,165
Um, they're such a po they're, they're,
they're a source of positivity in, in

1058
00:58:12,165 --> 00:58:14,985
the world right now, and it just reminds
me of that every time I'm near them.

1059
00:58:15,645 --> 00:58:20,655
I think it gives such a, a
beautiful look of what we don't

1060
00:58:20,655 --> 00:58:22,485
understand about the ocean.

1061
00:58:22,485 --> 00:58:26,055
I think when, when a lot of people
picture the ocean, they picture

1062
00:58:26,085 --> 00:58:27,705
coral reefs, they picture mm-hmm.

1063
00:58:28,095 --> 00:58:33,015
Or, or just blue and nothingness, you
know, like in a, in a, say, open ocean.

1064
00:58:33,735 --> 00:58:36,885
When you look at a kelp forest,
there's so much to look at.

1065
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,300
Like from the ground up, you know?

1066
00:58:39,305 --> 00:58:39,365
Mm-hmm.

1067
00:58:39,450 --> 00:58:42,780
And not only just the kelp forest,
but the fish, like I said, the

1068
00:58:42,780 --> 00:58:46,890
invertebrates, the, the, the sea
stars, the even the sea urchins.

1069
00:58:46,890 --> 00:58:50,790
You might see a sea otter, you might
see a seal or a sea lion, you know,

1070
00:58:50,790 --> 00:58:52,410
coming through every once in a while.

1071
00:58:52,620 --> 00:58:55,830
You know, there's all these different
aspects of it up and down that,

1072
00:58:55,830 --> 00:59:00,060
that, that Pacific coast and it's,
it just gives you a, a different

1073
00:59:00,060 --> 00:59:02,520
breadth of what the ocean can be.

1074
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,970
Uh, you know, and it's,
it's absolutely gorgeous.

1075
00:59:05,970 --> 00:59:08,940
I've never gone diving
on, on, uh, kelp forests.

1076
00:59:09,090 --> 00:59:10,890
I look forward to doing it someday.

1077
00:59:10,890 --> 00:59:14,250
It is on my bucket list because
it's one of my favorite exhibits

1078
00:59:14,250 --> 00:59:16,950
at any aquarium, uh, that I go to.

1079
00:59:16,950 --> 00:59:18,900
And it's something that,
you know, I look forward to.

1080
00:59:18,900 --> 00:59:22,440
And it, and it provides that, just that
connection, like you said, like the hope

1081
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,020
that you could have a productive ocean.

1082
00:59:25,020 --> 00:59:28,620
And I think having any way we can,
whether you want to get wet and connect

1083
00:59:28,620 --> 00:59:32,310
or you want to go virtual and connect,
I think any way to connect is such an

1084
00:59:32,310 --> 00:59:34,920
important aspect to understanding, uh.

1085
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,120
Just the, the biology that's down there,
the importance of, of it down there

1086
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:43,740
and how people really rely on these,
on these habitats to, uh, to survive.

1087
00:59:44,220 --> 00:59:48,030
I just want, I just wanna say thank
you so much, uh, for, for coming in

1088
00:59:48,030 --> 00:59:49,800
and talking about sea forestation.

1089
00:59:49,980 --> 00:59:53,130
I'd love to have you back on, or anybody
else who's part of Sea Forestation

1090
00:59:53,130 --> 00:59:55,470
back on, or even ocean wise at large.

1091
00:59:55,470 --> 00:59:59,040
You know, it'd be, it'd be really
great to have more people talk and give

1092
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:03,660
that, that, you know, audio or visual
of what, uh, these areas look like.

1093
01:00:03,930 --> 01:00:07,800
Um, it's such an, an important aspect
to not only Canadian life, but ocean

1094
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,430
life in general and, and kelp forests
are, are our future and they need, they,

1095
01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:13,890
they were part of our past and they
need to be part of our future as well.

1096
01:00:13,890 --> 01:00:16,290
So, uh, I wanna thank you
so much for, for coming on.

1097
01:00:16,290 --> 01:00:18,480
It's been a, a great experience
to meet you and, and hear all

1098
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:19,710
about, uh, sea Forest Station.

1099
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:21,000
Yeah.

1100
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:22,680
Well thank you for having me on And/or.

1101
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,240
That was, uh, fantastic.

1102
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:28,620
And, uh, you know, if you find yourself
out, uh, here in Vancouver in the, in the

1103
01:00:28,620 --> 01:00:30,570
darker Rainier months, that's when we're.

1104
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,580
I'm kind of most active in the water.

1105
01:00:32,580 --> 01:00:34,980
So there's a, there's a possibility there.

1106
01:00:34,980 --> 01:00:38,850
And, um, yeah, we've got
lots of other, uh, uh, really

1107
01:00:38,850 --> 01:00:40,650
wonderful folks at Ocean Wise.

1108
01:00:40,650 --> 01:00:44,310
If there's other subjects that we want
to explore, um, there's, there's lots

1109
01:00:44,310 --> 01:00:48,300
of, uh, important work to be done,
uh, to improve, uh, ocean Health,

1110
01:00:48,300 --> 01:00:51,660
and I think we'd be delighted to come
back on the show, uh, in the future.

1111
01:00:51,660 --> 01:00:52,050
So, yeah.

1112
01:00:52,050 --> 01:00:52,800
Thanks very much.

1113
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:53,460
It's been a pleasure.

1114
01:00:53,730 --> 01:00:54,150
You bet.

1115
01:00:54,150 --> 01:00:54,780
Thank you, Scott.

1116
01:00:54,780 --> 01:00:55,320
I appreciate it.

1117
01:00:55,710 --> 01:00:58,080
Thank you, Scott, for joining
us on today's episode of the How

1118
01:00:58,080 --> 01:00:59,370
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1119
01:00:59,820 --> 01:01:00,870
It's great to have you on.

1120
01:01:01,020 --> 01:01:03,150
I hope it's not the last time I see you.

1121
01:01:03,150 --> 01:01:04,950
I hope we'll see you many, many times.

1122
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:08,250
We can talk about specific projects, of
course, ocean Wise, anybody from Ocean

1123
01:01:08,250 --> 01:01:10,980
Wise would love to have you on the podcast
to talk about the different programs.

1124
01:01:11,070 --> 01:01:14,280
This is a huge thing for me, like
to be able to connect with somebody

1125
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,790
from a great organization like
Ocean Wise is absolutely massive.

1126
01:01:17,790 --> 01:01:21,810
As a Canadian, as a Marine biologist,
as a science communicator, to help

1127
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:25,290
disseminate this information to
you, I think it's super important

1128
01:01:25,290 --> 01:01:28,620
and must be done more so hopefully
we'll have them back on for more.

1129
01:01:28,740 --> 01:01:30,720
Let me know what you
loved in this interview.

1130
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,820
Was it the fact that we talked
about restoration and the

1131
01:01:32,820 --> 01:01:33,990
mechanisms of restoration?

1132
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:35,220
Was it the fact that we talked about.

1133
01:01:35,235 --> 01:01:37,035
How important kelp forests are.

1134
01:01:37,125 --> 01:01:40,515
Was it the fact that we talked
about some of the barriers to

1135
01:01:40,575 --> 01:01:42,705
scaling up a program like this?

1136
01:01:42,765 --> 01:01:44,685
Let me know what your
thoughts on kelp forest.

1137
01:01:44,685 --> 01:01:47,715
Let me know if you use a
product that has kelp in it.

1138
01:01:47,715 --> 01:01:49,665
I would love for you to tell me.

1139
01:01:49,755 --> 01:01:50,805
Let me know in the comments below.

1140
01:01:50,805 --> 01:01:53,565
If you're watching this on YouTube,
if you are listening to this on your

1141
01:01:53,565 --> 01:01:57,525
favorite podcast app, Spotify, apple
Podcasts, Amazon Music, whatever

1142
01:01:57,525 --> 01:01:59,595
that might be, love to hear from you.

1143
01:01:59,595 --> 01:02:05,145
If you go to speak up for
blue.com/feedback, you can either write

1144
01:02:05,145 --> 01:02:07,515
a comment or you can leave a voicemail.

1145
01:02:07,515 --> 01:02:10,995
I'd be happy if you want, just let
me know in the voicemail to play that

1146
01:02:10,995 --> 01:02:14,655
voicemail on the next episode, answer
your questions or listen to your comments.

1147
01:02:14,835 --> 01:02:16,815
I think that would be
something that's really great.

1148
01:02:16,815 --> 01:02:18,315
It's a new program that I'm trying out.

1149
01:02:18,315 --> 01:02:19,635
I'd love to hear your feedback.

1150
01:02:19,725 --> 01:02:21,915
It goes directly to me if you
don't want it to be shared.

1151
01:02:22,105 --> 01:02:22,855
No worries.

1152
01:02:22,855 --> 01:02:24,565
If you want to be shared,
that would be great.

1153
01:02:24,565 --> 01:02:25,675
I could share that as well.

1154
01:02:25,765 --> 01:02:28,435
Speak up for blue.com/feedback.

1155
01:02:28,465 --> 01:02:30,775
If you're watching this on YouTube, you
can use that too, or you can use the

1156
01:02:30,775 --> 01:02:34,525
comments below, but I just want to build
that community, get more interaction.

1157
01:02:34,615 --> 01:02:36,385
Love to talk about the ocean.

1158
01:02:36,385 --> 01:02:39,955
As you know, I talk about three times
a week, probably more than that, behind

1159
01:02:39,955 --> 01:02:44,095
the scenes, but I really love to do
that, so check it out, subscribe, you

1160
01:02:44,095 --> 01:02:45,745
know, follow whatever you need to do.

1161
01:02:45,865 --> 01:02:46,825
I love all of you.

1162
01:02:47,005 --> 01:02:49,735
I love the fact that you wanna learn
more about the ocean and I get to

1163
01:02:49,735 --> 01:02:51,235
be the person to tell you about it.

1164
01:02:51,325 --> 01:02:54,265
Then I wanna thank Scott and Ocean
Wise and Sea Forest Station for

1165
01:02:54,265 --> 01:02:57,085
coming on the podcast to let us
know more about Sea Forest Station.

1166
01:02:57,235 --> 01:02:58,525
Thank you so much for joining us.

1167
01:02:58,525 --> 01:03:02,245
I'm your host, and/or Lewin from the True
Nord Strong and Free, and for the host

1168
01:03:02,245 --> 01:03:04,045
of this How to Protect The Ocean Podcast.

1169
01:03:04,285 --> 01:03:05,755
Thank you so much for joining us.

1170
01:03:05,935 --> 01:03:06,925
Have a great day.

1171
01:03:07,015 --> 01:03:09,265
I'll talk to you next time,
and happy conservation.