Human Relationship with the Ocean: Why Losing This Connection Could Cost Us Everything

1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,150
When you meet someone who has shaped
Ocean communication for more than two

2
00:00:03,150 --> 00:00:04,865
decades, you expect a pretty big story.

3
00:00:05,595 --> 00:00:09,285
What you do not expect is someone who
never saw the Ocean until they were 18,

4
00:00:09,555 --> 00:00:14,115
then built one of the most influential
virtual Ocean platforms in the world.

5
00:00:14,235 --> 00:00:17,835
Peter Neal has spent his life
asking two simple questions.

6
00:00:18,045 --> 00:00:20,145
What if we tried something
bold for the Ocean?

7
00:00:20,564 --> 00:00:21,854
And why not do it now?

8
00:00:22,185 --> 00:00:24,075
That's what we're gonna be talking
about in today's episode of the

9
00:00:24,075 --> 00:00:25,335
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

10
00:00:25,695 --> 00:00:26,655
Let's start the show.

11
00:00:28,455 --> 00:00:28,905
Hey everybody.

12
00:00:28,905 --> 00:00:32,055
Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

13
00:00:32,055 --> 00:00:35,085
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, Marine
biologist and science communicator who's

14
00:00:35,085 --> 00:00:37,695
here to tell you what's happening with
the Ocean, how you can speak up for

15
00:00:37,695 --> 00:00:41,684
the Ocean, and what you can do to live
for a better Ocean by taking action.

16
00:00:41,864 --> 00:00:46,394
And this podcast is part of the larger
Speak Up for Blue Podcast Network

17
00:00:46,394 --> 00:00:48,285
where we podcast with the purpose.

18
00:00:48,285 --> 00:00:52,725
And today the purpose is to kind
of go over the history of science

19
00:00:52,725 --> 00:00:56,565
communication for the Ocean by
interviewing the Peter Neal.

20
00:00:56,565 --> 00:00:59,475
Peter Neal has been doing
science communication.

21
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,770
For over two decades,
probably more than that.

22
00:01:03,950 --> 00:01:07,010
He saw a calling at one point in his life.

23
00:01:07,010 --> 00:01:09,770
He's had a lot of different
points in his life where he's done

24
00:01:09,770 --> 00:01:11,510
some pretty incredible things.

25
00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,230
At one point he said, Hey, there's a
call to do something about the Ocean.

26
00:01:15,230 --> 00:01:19,220
In the early two thousands when the
internet was still in its infancy.

27
00:01:19,795 --> 00:01:20,905
And he said, Hey, you know what?

28
00:01:20,905 --> 00:01:21,865
I'm gonna take this on.

29
00:01:21,865 --> 00:01:24,475
I'm gonna build a virtual platform
that talks about the Ocean.

30
00:01:24,625 --> 00:01:29,215
I'm gonna build programs that are
free and accessible to everybody, and

31
00:01:29,215 --> 00:01:33,685
we're gonna basically educate and make
aware of millions of people about the

32
00:01:33,685 --> 00:01:37,315
Ocean and what's happening within and
what they can do to better protect it.

33
00:01:37,585 --> 00:01:46,045
This is a man who's had the World Ocean
Radio for 21 years and he's had the

34
00:01:46,045 --> 00:01:47,965
World Ocean Observatory for even longer.

35
00:01:48,085 --> 00:01:52,074
And it's somebody I can't wait
for you to meet and to hear

36
00:01:52,164 --> 00:01:54,025
how he started all this stuff.

37
00:01:54,025 --> 00:01:57,685
If you want to go over to the World
Ocean Radio and listen to his three to

38
00:01:57,685 --> 00:01:59,935
five minute episodes, you can do so.

39
00:01:59,965 --> 00:02:02,305
I'll put the links in the
show notes, so check that out.

40
00:02:02,515 --> 00:02:05,245
But until then, here's the
interview with Peter Neil.

41
00:02:05,395 --> 00:02:06,910
Enjoy and I'll talk to you after.

42
00:02:07,490 --> 00:02:10,820
Hey, Peter, welcome to the How
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

43
00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:15,020
Are you ready to talk about
podcasting, science, communication,

44
00:02:15,230 --> 00:02:19,370
the Ocean and everything that falls
under and in between and all over?

45
00:02:19,820 --> 00:02:21,020
I'm always ready.

46
00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,840
That's, that's all I do.

47
00:02:25,010 --> 00:02:25,400
Indeed.

48
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:25,820
It is.

49
00:02:25,825 --> 00:02:26,285
You know what,

50
00:02:28,545 --> 00:02:32,030
you know, it's really, it's really
interesting to have you on the podcast

51
00:02:32,030 --> 00:02:37,190
because I don't know of anybody who's
been, uh, podcasting or doing radio

52
00:02:37,250 --> 00:02:40,430
longer than I have, which is, it's
kind of, this is, this is really

53
00:02:40,430 --> 00:02:42,140
surreal to be able to talk to you.

54
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,140
Uh, we've talked before in the past
and we've kind of, you know, talked

55
00:02:45,140 --> 00:02:47,930
online and, and, And so forth, but
this is the first time we've had,

56
00:02:48,140 --> 00:02:49,820
you know, you on, on the podcast.

57
00:02:49,820 --> 00:02:54,710
And I'm super excited to kind of get
the history around your activities,

58
00:02:54,710 --> 00:02:58,550
around the Ocean, uh, and get, you've
been doing this for a long time and I

59
00:02:58,550 --> 00:03:02,030
want to get your perspective of where
you began, where you've been, And then

60
00:03:02,030 --> 00:03:03,830
where you think everything is going.

61
00:03:04,100 --> 00:03:05,510
Uh, because I think it's really important.

62
00:03:05,510 --> 00:03:07,160
We're at a, a, a lot of.

63
00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:12,030
Um, you know, junctions in our life
as we, as we speak, cop 30 is, uh,

64
00:03:12,060 --> 00:03:16,079
getting ready to go, or if it's not
already gone or it's already happening.

65
00:03:16,260 --> 00:03:19,829
Uh, and we're starting to see some of
the things that have come out of that.

66
00:03:19,829 --> 00:03:23,339
And obviously, you've, you've been
around for a lot of cops and, and, uh,

67
00:03:23,370 --> 00:03:28,230
you know, probably analyzed them and
begrudge them as well as with, with

68
00:03:28,230 --> 00:03:32,160
some of their, their, uh, you know,
the, their, their results And so forth.

69
00:03:32,310 --> 00:03:35,339
But we're gonna talk all about that
and talk about your, your work in

70
00:03:35,549 --> 00:03:39,149
starting, uh, world Oceans Radio and
the World Ocean Observatory, and where

71
00:03:39,149 --> 00:03:41,790
it's going and where it's at, and all
the stuff that you've done in between.

72
00:03:41,910 --> 00:03:45,899
So I'm super, super excited, but,
uh, what I want to do right now

73
00:03:45,899 --> 00:03:47,370
is just get to know who you are.

74
00:03:47,370 --> 00:03:50,040
So, Peter, before we get into
all of that stuff, let us know

75
00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:51,359
who you are and what you do.

76
00:03:52,739 --> 00:03:54,000
Uh, well, I'm Peter Neal.

77
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,559
I'm director, founder, and,
uh, now senior advisor, uh, to

78
00:03:58,559 --> 00:04:00,929
the World Ocean Observatory.

79
00:04:01,529 --> 00:04:09,299
Uh, I come out of, um, a kind of
creative path of travel Army, uh,

80
00:04:09,359 --> 00:04:15,839
published, uh, fiction, uh, in the
seventies, taught And then got involved.

81
00:04:15,869 --> 00:04:19,229
Uh, uh, I actually never
saw the Ocean till I was 18.

82
00:04:19,229 --> 00:04:20,519
I was born in St. Louis.

83
00:04:21,029 --> 00:04:25,020
Uh, my Ocean was the Mississippi River,
which of course is part of the Ocean.

84
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:25,620
Yes.

85
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:26,039
Um.

86
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:35,640
But, um, I, uh, at one point moved out
of teaching, uh, at university to, uh,

87
00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,659
running a small environmental organization
in New Haven, Connecticut that had sailing

88
00:04:39,659 --> 00:04:43,979
vessel, uh, and was taking young people,
uh, sailing to give them introductions

89
00:04:43,979 --> 00:04:45,750
to Marine science and sea experience.

90
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,380
And then I went on from there to
become the director of the Maritime

91
00:04:49,380 --> 00:04:52,799
Program for the National Trust for
Historic Preservation in Washington.

92
00:04:53,340 --> 00:04:57,869
Went thereafter on to run the
South Street Seaport Museum, uh,

93
00:04:57,869 --> 00:05:00,059
in New York City for 20 years.

94
00:05:00,479 --> 00:05:06,885
And then around 2005, I moved Maine
and I brought with me, uh, an idea, uh,

95
00:05:06,890 --> 00:05:10,349
uh, for the World Ocean Observatory.

96
00:05:10,799 --> 00:05:12,090
Uh, it was not mine.

97
00:05:12,659 --> 00:05:12,750
Mm-hmm.

98
00:05:12,989 --> 00:05:18,390
In 1998, there was an international
commission on the future of the Ocean,

99
00:05:18,390 --> 00:05:22,830
which was chaired by Mario Schwarz,
the former president of Portugal.

100
00:05:23,070 --> 00:05:23,849
A great man.

101
00:05:24,450 --> 00:05:30,480
And that same year he convened
also a, um, uh, uh, an independent

102
00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,100
commission on, on freshwater.

103
00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:32,880
Mm-hmm.

104
00:05:32,881 --> 00:05:36,660
Outta the freshwater came the World,
world Water Manifesto, the World

105
00:05:36,660 --> 00:05:42,660
Water Forum, and began the whole, uh,
sort of concept of an international.

106
00:05:43,185 --> 00:05:46,905
Uh, appreciation, understanding,
and promotion of research about

107
00:05:46,905 --> 00:05:49,275
the freshwater part of the system.

108
00:05:50,085 --> 00:05:54,045
Uh, at the same time, the Commission on
the Oceans published a report, which is

109
00:05:54,045 --> 00:05:59,265
called, uh, the Ocean, our Future, uh,
published by Oxford University Press.

110
00:05:59,265 --> 00:06:03,315
I founded in a dollar bin in it,
Cambridge, uh, Massachusetts,

111
00:06:03,345 --> 00:06:07,995
uh, book, book, book store,
and sat down and read it at.

112
00:06:08,695 --> 00:06:12,625
In a sitting, um, and my life was changed.

113
00:06:12,655 --> 00:06:19,345
Uh, the penultimate recommendation was
that there be a web base utility, uh,

114
00:06:19,345 --> 00:06:24,715
about the Ocean defined as an integrated
global social system so that it looked

115
00:06:24,715 --> 00:06:29,485
beyond the conventional definition of
the Ocean as a, as a place for species

116
00:06:29,485 --> 00:06:32,185
and habitat for research and policy.

117
00:06:32,515 --> 00:06:38,485
Uh, and looked at the much, much,
much larger interconnection of all

118
00:06:38,575 --> 00:06:45,835
aspects of the global contribution of
the Ocean, the freshwater saltwater

119
00:06:46,045 --> 00:06:50,365
continuum, uh, to the history of
human endeavor and civilization.

120
00:06:51,235 --> 00:06:56,185
Uh, it's a big idea, uh, and I was
about to say that's a big idea.

121
00:06:56,625 --> 00:06:58,965
But, and I did some due diligence.

122
00:06:58,965 --> 00:07:04,995
I, I actually went to see, um, uh,
Bob Gagosian, who was head of Woods

123
00:07:04,995 --> 00:07:06,310
Hole at the time, and now mm-hmm.

124
00:07:06,390 --> 00:07:07,724
Was, And then went to Noah.

125
00:07:08,175 --> 00:07:11,445
Um, I went to see Julie Packard
out on the west coast at,

126
00:07:11,445 --> 00:07:13,005
at, at the Monterey Aquarium.

127
00:07:13,515 --> 00:07:19,724
I was in touch with, um, um, uh,
her deepness, uh, Sylvia Earl, who

128
00:07:19,724 --> 00:07:21,974
was always generous and supportive.

129
00:07:22,155 --> 00:07:22,395
Mm-hmm.

130
00:07:22,755 --> 00:07:27,945
Um, and, uh, And then also a fellow by
the name of Patricia Burnell, who at

131
00:07:27,945 --> 00:07:33,255
the time was the Executive SEC Executive
Secretary of the Intergovernmental

132
00:07:33,255 --> 00:07:35,325
Oceanic Commission of the un.

133
00:07:36,105 --> 00:07:38,805
And he had been on the swish panel.

134
00:07:39,390 --> 00:07:43,950
So he knew the project and I went
to see him in the lobby at the un.

135
00:07:43,980 --> 00:07:51,210
I had no qualifications, no, no degrees,
um, no, no real experience other than sort

136
00:07:51,210 --> 00:07:54,360
of maritime history ships and experience.

137
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,660
And I said, can I do this?

138
00:07:58,140 --> 00:08:01,890
And he said, well, it was supposed to
be done by a group of guys in Malta.

139
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:02,940
They're never gonna do it.

140
00:08:02,945 --> 00:08:03,245
Mm-hmm.

141
00:08:03,570 --> 00:08:04,110
Uh, why not?

142
00:08:04,860 --> 00:08:08,280
I love it when people say to me, why not?

143
00:08:09,185 --> 00:08:16,920
Uh, uh, it, it, it's, it's, uh, why not to
me is the perfect answer to my question.

144
00:08:17,130 --> 00:08:18,660
What if, right?

145
00:08:18,660 --> 00:08:20,400
Um, what do we do with this?

146
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:21,210
Well, why not?

147
00:08:21,210 --> 00:08:21,270
Yeah.

148
00:08:21,930 --> 00:08:28,230
And so there with literally no
resources, uh, it began, and

149
00:08:28,230 --> 00:08:31,930
that was now 20, 22 years ago.

150
00:08:32,820 --> 00:08:40,710
Uh, and with no resources, I basically
put together a new model at the time,

151
00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:45,660
truly an innovation, which was that we
were to be from the beginning mm-hmm.

152
00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:50,610
A, um, a virtual organization
that we did not need a building.

153
00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:52,470
We did not need a facade.

154
00:08:52,470 --> 00:08:54,690
We did not need massive overheads.

155
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,300
Uh, we did not need huge staff.

156
00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,710
Uh, and we started with myself
and a halftime, uh, person.

157
00:09:02,130 --> 00:09:02,250
Mm-hmm.

158
00:09:02,490 --> 00:09:09,600
And out of it came a kind of plethora of
ideas that basically has been an iteration

159
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:15,120
of the first drawing on the napkin when I
lay out, well, what's it going to be and

160
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:22,830
how is it going to work, Um, So I like
to, I like to think that, that, uh, our

161
00:09:22,830 --> 00:09:27,240
budget is a fraction of the pizza budget
of a major environmental organization.

162
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,320
Uh, uh, we reach measurably.

163
00:09:31,770 --> 00:09:34,650
Millions of people worldwide.

164
00:09:34,650 --> 00:09:34,709
Yeah.

165
00:09:35,100 --> 00:09:37,560
Uh, trying to understand that.

166
00:09:38,010 --> 00:09:43,560
Yes, it's great that we, we, we deal
with, uh, all the con the existing

167
00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:45,510
organizations and the conferences.

168
00:09:45,930 --> 00:09:47,250
It's all good.

169
00:09:47,310 --> 00:09:49,439
I don't ever want to disparage it.

170
00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:53,939
I do want to say,
however, ask the question.

171
00:09:54,390 --> 00:10:03,360
Um, uh, when the, uh, UN Secretary
General looks at the global response to

172
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,849
the challenge of climate, which is Ocean.

173
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:06,449
Yep.

174
00:10:06,870 --> 00:10:08,610
And Ocean are the same.

175
00:10:08,670 --> 00:10:08,939
Yep.

176
00:10:09,209 --> 00:10:12,209
Principle driver of climate is Ocean.

177
00:10:12,540 --> 00:10:12,839
Agreed.

178
00:10:12,839 --> 00:10:20,339
Uh, and you, um, and he says, well,
um, uh, uh, you know, not enough.

179
00:10:21,030 --> 00:10:22,800
Not not, and not in time.

180
00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:24,449
Not enough.

181
00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:25,410
Not in time.

182
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,760
And to me, that is a massive, uh.

183
00:10:30,435 --> 00:10:31,575
Stunning,

184
00:10:34,635 --> 00:10:42,970
crazy true evaluation of enormous
amounts of energy and money.

185
00:10:43,190 --> 00:10:43,610
Mm-hmm.

186
00:10:43,690 --> 00:10:48,105
And good intentions that have been
invested in the Ocean movement, the

187
00:10:48,105 --> 00:10:52,690
Ocean conservation press, sustainability
movement, um, for, for decades.

188
00:10:53,670 --> 00:11:04,305
Um, and, uh, the, if you look at the
current director of IOC and he talks

189
00:11:04,305 --> 00:11:06,315
about, you know, transformation.

190
00:11:06,675 --> 00:11:11,925
And my argument is that if you're trying
to look at the transformation of knowledge

191
00:11:11,925 --> 00:11:15,945
to action, uh, you, there are four stages.

192
00:11:16,694 --> 00:11:18,314
One is research.

193
00:11:18,344 --> 00:11:20,535
You have to, you have to
know what the knowledge is.

194
00:11:20,535 --> 00:11:26,834
So research and data, um, that typically
gets, uh, it's, its, it's its own sort

195
00:11:26,834 --> 00:11:33,015
of amplifying feed, uh, endless loop, uh,
where literally generations of scholars

196
00:11:33,015 --> 00:11:38,474
train generations of scholars in their
disciplines, in their approaches, uh,

197
00:11:38,505 --> 00:11:41,805
judging their PhD, uh, dissertations.

198
00:11:41,805 --> 00:11:45,824
And, and it's all a kind of self,
self-fulfilling organizational mm-hmm.

199
00:11:46,064 --> 00:11:46,574
Structure.

200
00:11:47,025 --> 00:11:49,935
Um, but the good news is it exists.

201
00:11:49,935 --> 00:11:55,515
It's a huge amount of new information,
um, and it in many cases has

202
00:11:55,515 --> 00:11:57,344
been taken and moved into policy.

203
00:11:57,344 --> 00:11:57,405
Hmm.

204
00:11:58,035 --> 00:12:02,925
So policy has essentially become
the focus of many, many, yeah.

205
00:12:02,925 --> 00:12:05,834
Uh, governmental organizations,
uh, many, many independent,

206
00:12:05,834 --> 00:12:07,515
not-for-profit organizations.

207
00:12:08,055 --> 00:12:12,525
Uh, how do you take the data,
turn it into policy, apply the

208
00:12:12,525 --> 00:12:15,405
policy worldwide, um, and, um.

209
00:12:16,095 --> 00:12:18,915
While we do data and, and science, great.

210
00:12:19,275 --> 00:12:21,435
Uh, we don't do policy as well.

211
00:12:21,645 --> 00:12:21,855
True.

212
00:12:21,855 --> 00:12:28,365
And the problem with that is, is that we
are compromised often by, um, you know,

213
00:12:28,395 --> 00:12:30,735
vested interests and fear of change.

214
00:12:31,455 --> 00:12:31,575
Mm-hmm.

215
00:12:31,815 --> 00:12:38,655
Uh, and that those two negative
destructive forces, um, slow our momentum.

216
00:12:39,285 --> 00:12:45,015
But in the progression from science
to policy, there are two more stages.

217
00:12:45,585 --> 00:12:51,405
And one stage is education, and I now
mean informal and formal education from

218
00:12:51,405 --> 00:12:54,735
the bottom up and from the inside out.

219
00:12:55,215 --> 00:12:55,305
Mm-hmm.

220
00:12:55,545 --> 00:12:57,885
And the fourth one is communication.

221
00:12:57,885 --> 00:13:02,985
That is how do you take this
message, let's call it cumulatively

222
00:13:02,985 --> 00:13:05,865
Ocean literacy and extend it.

223
00:13:06,405 --> 00:13:08,200
Worldwide to, yeah.

224
00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:15,105
The people who will be the
intergenerational constituency to

225
00:13:15,315 --> 00:13:22,095
perpetuate the science perpetuate
and apply the policy and actually

226
00:13:22,245 --> 00:13:28,305
provide the political will to make
something happen so that we can say

227
00:13:28,545 --> 00:13:31,935
soon it's more than enough in time.

228
00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:31,960
Mm-hmm.

229
00:13:33,645 --> 00:13:38,805
And when I raise the question and I say,
well, what we have done, I can't, I, I, I

230
00:13:38,805 --> 00:13:40,995
don't wanna criticize what we have done.

231
00:13:41,505 --> 00:13:46,665
I'll let other people do that For me,
what I say to people is, if it hasn't

232
00:13:46,665 --> 00:13:54,135
succeeded to our expectation, then let's
ask the question, what have we not done?

233
00:13:54,135 --> 00:13:54,225
Mm-hmm.

234
00:13:55,125 --> 00:13:58,485
And when you look at that,
you come back to education.

235
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,150
Beyond higher education.

236
00:14:00,150 --> 00:14:00,209
Yeah.

237
00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:05,280
And you come back to communication
beyond the confines of your own

238
00:14:05,579 --> 00:14:07,949
institutional agenda mm-hmm.

239
00:14:08,219 --> 00:14:12,239
Or personal career aspiration
or all, all of that.

240
00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:21,479
Um, So the World Ocean Observatory created
this model in which we could apply that

241
00:14:21,540 --> 00:14:26,310
perspective effectively and economically.

242
00:14:26,729 --> 00:14:26,880
Yep.

243
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:32,400
Uh, on a very, very small amount of
annual investment on which we can

244
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,800
demonstrate an astonishing return.

245
00:14:35,729 --> 00:14:39,989
When I get a grant or when I get a
gift from somebody, a contribution to

246
00:14:39,989 --> 00:14:45,015
somebody, my, my argument to them is,
measure us by the return on investment.

247
00:14:45,375 --> 00:14:51,195
And we'll prove to you that what we
are doing is reaching people with

248
00:14:51,195 --> 00:14:57,525
responsible science, with responsible
policy, with, uh, educational innovation,

249
00:14:57,765 --> 00:14:59,925
and with global communications.

250
00:15:00,465 --> 00:15:02,895
So how do you, sorry, I
didn't mean to interrupt.

251
00:15:02,895 --> 00:15:06,795
How do you, how do you do that,
like right from the get go?

252
00:15:06,795 --> 00:15:10,755
I mean, it's, it's a big undertaking
you took from the get go, putting up a

253
00:15:10,755 --> 00:15:13,605
site, virtually reaching out to people.

254
00:15:13,635 --> 00:15:17,925
Even at that time, the internet had
caught on, but not everybody was

255
00:15:17,925 --> 00:15:19,335
on the internet like you see now.

256
00:15:19,335 --> 00:15:20,925
It wasn't part of our daily lives.

257
00:15:20,925 --> 00:15:23,745
Like we had desktop computers,
maybe laptops were coming out.

258
00:15:23,745 --> 00:15:24,405
At that point.

259
00:15:24,615 --> 00:15:27,915
People were starting to use them,
but even then they weren't like crazy

260
00:15:27,915 --> 00:15:32,385
popular that, that the age that we're
in now, uh, almost the age of ai.

261
00:15:32,385 --> 00:15:35,205
But even before that, where we had,
we had phones and stuff like that,

262
00:15:35,205 --> 00:15:36,765
those are just starting to come out.

263
00:15:37,155 --> 00:15:40,335
Um, even maybe a little bit
after, like the iPod may have just

264
00:15:40,335 --> 00:15:41,655
started to come out at that point.

265
00:15:42,615 --> 00:15:48,585
How did you get to reach so
many people through the website?

266
00:15:48,885 --> 00:15:52,275
Like how did you build it to get,
like, to make those connections?

267
00:15:52,275 --> 00:15:56,505
Were they, was it a slow growth or was
it something that caught on quickly

268
00:15:56,505 --> 00:15:58,155
because we hadn't seen anything like it?

269
00:15:58,365 --> 00:16:01,695
Well, both, uh, it caught on
quickly 'cause we hadn't seen it.

270
00:16:01,695 --> 00:16:06,555
And, uh, it has been slow
inexorable growth every year.

271
00:16:06,825 --> 00:16:11,385
Um, the, the, the, the, the rate
of participation and engagement

272
00:16:11,385 --> 00:16:14,775
goes up and up and up and up and
the budget hardly moves at all.

273
00:16:15,465 --> 00:16:15,825
Right.

274
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,095
And what I I, it's an
interesting question.

275
00:16:19,095 --> 00:16:23,145
Nobody's really ever asked me this
before 'cause I don't claim prescient.

276
00:16:23,835 --> 00:16:24,194
Right.

277
00:16:24,555 --> 00:16:26,145
But what I do

278
00:16:28,155 --> 00:16:32,385
would, would, is offer, as an
explanation is that when I was running

279
00:16:32,385 --> 00:16:37,694
the Maritime museum in New York City,
I had an enormous story to tell.

280
00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:42,570
The maritime contribution, uh, to
the history of the state, the city

281
00:16:42,570 --> 00:16:46,890
of the state, and the nation is
an astonishingly powerful story.

282
00:16:47,220 --> 00:16:50,520
It basically is the history of
the acculturation of America,

283
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,350
uh, the, the, and the arrival
of goods, people and ideas.

284
00:16:56,070 --> 00:16:57,990
It's a huge story to tell.

285
00:16:57,995 --> 00:16:58,175
Mm-hmm.

286
00:16:59,055 --> 00:17:01,545
Two, it's in a huge market.

287
00:17:01,935 --> 00:17:02,025
Mm-hmm.

288
00:17:02,325 --> 00:17:02,715
Three.

289
00:17:03,375 --> 00:17:08,175
Uh, if it was going to remain a
maritime museum of the conventional

290
00:17:08,204 --> 00:17:12,315
ilk, it was already in trouble
and it was going to die.

291
00:17:12,615 --> 00:17:19,185
And when I came there, um, not trained as
a museum professional, as director as I

292
00:17:19,454 --> 00:17:22,785
was already multimillion dollars in debt.

293
00:17:23,474 --> 00:17:29,175
So you, when you are faced with an
insurmountable problem, it may well be

294
00:17:29,175 --> 00:17:34,905
that you say, Hmm, what we have been doing
isn't good enough and not right time.

295
00:17:35,685 --> 00:17:36,945
And so what do you do?

296
00:17:36,945 --> 00:17:40,995
You create, you invent
something that you haven't done.

297
00:17:41,655 --> 00:17:48,075
And so we would, uh, from the beginning
I argued that, uh, museums in, in,

298
00:17:48,075 --> 00:17:52,275
in New York state are, are chartered
by the, uh, board of Regents, the

299
00:17:52,275 --> 00:17:54,255
educational organization, state level.

300
00:17:54,585 --> 00:17:56,655
Your charters an educational organization.

301
00:17:56,775 --> 00:17:57,915
We did no education.

302
00:17:59,010 --> 00:18:04,710
So what we did then was to say we are
going to become not just a repository

303
00:18:04,890 --> 00:18:08,970
of, of global, of imminent collections.

304
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:10,500
Eminent collections.

305
00:18:11,010 --> 00:18:14,760
Uh, we have, you know,
140,000 objects and paintings.

306
00:18:14,970 --> 00:18:18,450
We also had the largest fleet
of historic ships in the world.

307
00:18:18,570 --> 00:18:18,660
Right.

308
00:18:18,660 --> 00:18:23,250
Through thousand tons of ships that
had to be restored in the water.

309
00:18:23,610 --> 00:18:23,940
Yeah.

310
00:18:23,940 --> 00:18:27,420
And we, well, alright, we're not
gonna just restore them as passive

311
00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:30,030
objects, uh, uh, tied to the dock.

312
00:18:30,030 --> 00:18:31,140
We're gonna sail them.

313
00:18:31,710 --> 00:18:33,990
And so we restored them
to sailing condition.

314
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:39,510
We took people, uh, people out on the
water so they could have the experience

315
00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:41,520
of a of a, of a Gloucester fisherman.

316
00:18:42,450 --> 00:18:42,600
Yeah.

317
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,350
And then we went even beyond that, we
just, we, it wasn't just simply, oh, go,

318
00:18:46,350 --> 00:18:48,390
let's go for a boat ride on an old boat.

319
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:52,620
We suddenly started creating programs
that were social history programs,

320
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:54,900
expeditionary learning programs.

321
00:18:55,230 --> 00:19:00,570
Uh, we took, um, uh, we, we were given
a grant of half a million dollars

322
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:06,360
to take this a hundred year old
schooner, uh, with, with, uh, uh, young

323
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:10,110
men who were just ending up in the
welfare system in the state of Maine.

324
00:19:10,379 --> 00:19:13,230
It turned out, uh, and they were
gonna be let free with a hundred

325
00:19:13,230 --> 00:19:17,010
bucks in their hand, and that they,
they, they had no, no prep, right?

326
00:19:17,010 --> 00:19:22,350
So we took them with social workers,
how all the way to Argentina and back

327
00:19:22,350 --> 00:19:23,850
in a hundred year old sailing vessel.

328
00:19:23,910 --> 00:19:23,970
Wow.

329
00:19:24,990 --> 00:19:29,700
And when they came back, yeah,
they, they were transformed

330
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:31,680
because it was before the mast.

331
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,240
It was the, and when you look
at experience at sea, let's

332
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,770
just talk about it for a minute.

333
00:19:38,550 --> 00:19:39,900
What do you, what do you learn?

334
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:44,520
Well, the captain is a
violet in violet authority.

335
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,670
Whatever he says, she says goes.

336
00:19:47,670 --> 00:19:47,940
Yeah.

337
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:49,170
One, two, yeah.

338
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:53,820
There is a line of communication
that starts at the top and goes

339
00:19:53,820 --> 00:19:59,880
down, and it has to be direct and
clear, received and understood.

340
00:20:01,290 --> 00:20:02,940
The value of time.

341
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:07,860
You understand the, the, the, the
what, what the meaning of time.

342
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:13,290
You understand what it means
to be on time to stand watch.

343
00:20:13,650 --> 00:20:19,200
You also know that there are times
when timelessness requires that no

344
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,950
matter what the time is, you get up
and you get out of bed and you go

345
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:25,740
to the four deck, or you go aloft.

346
00:20:26,190 --> 00:20:26,280
Mm-hmm.

347
00:20:26,610 --> 00:20:29,820
Uh, you learn respect
for competence and skill.

348
00:20:30,150 --> 00:20:35,070
You understand that the whole life
of the vessel could be at risk

349
00:20:35,460 --> 00:20:38,010
by the failure of a single knot.

350
00:20:38,085 --> 00:20:44,235
Yeah, so competence, you are in
nature 24 hours a day, you're living

351
00:20:44,235 --> 00:20:48,465
close with people And so you have
to understand human relationships.

352
00:20:49,245 --> 00:20:54,165
So you take all of that and you say,
alright, we're turning that boat,

353
00:20:54,165 --> 00:20:57,225
that boat, that historic vessel
that you could just put on the dock

354
00:20:57,225 --> 00:21:01,305
and charge a few dollars and people
would walk on board and Hmm, fine.

355
00:21:01,335 --> 00:21:01,545
Yeah.

356
00:21:01,545 --> 00:21:05,445
And turn it into a
progressive teaching platform.

357
00:21:06,315 --> 00:21:11,325
It changes the entire
value and the economics.

358
00:21:12,170 --> 00:21:12,290
Absolutely.

359
00:21:12,290 --> 00:21:16,395
And so, absolutely we're beginning to get
half a million dollars to go to Argentina.

360
00:21:16,695 --> 00:21:19,065
We got, uh, major grants.

361
00:21:19,125 --> 00:21:19,905
Here's another one.

362
00:21:20,295 --> 00:21:22,785
We took blind children sailing.

363
00:21:23,699 --> 00:21:29,310
So we had a different vessel, also
historic landmark, um, flat, uh, uh, hard

364
00:21:29,310 --> 00:21:32,280
shine, shallow draft in New York Harbor.

365
00:21:32,699 --> 00:21:36,750
And we would get funds to bring
blind children, usually between,

366
00:21:36,750 --> 00:21:42,905
you know, uh, 14 and 16, 12
to 1416 with their chaperones.

367
00:21:42,925 --> 00:21:46,260
And we would go out into New
York Harbor, we'd turn off the

368
00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:48,179
edges, we'd raise the sails.

369
00:21:48,510 --> 00:21:53,729
We'd ask the kids to lie down on
the deck and we'd sail until we,

370
00:21:53,729 --> 00:21:57,840
just the point when they would, we
were afraid they might fall asleep.

371
00:21:58,709 --> 00:22:03,750
And we would say, alright, let's
sit up and sit in a circle.

372
00:22:04,020 --> 00:22:04,110
Mm-hmm.

373
00:22:04,350 --> 00:22:11,490
Sailing there, the Statue of Liberty
going by and ask them, what did you see?

374
00:22:11,939 --> 00:22:12,330
Yeah.

375
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:19,679
And invariably, invariably
it brought us all to tears.

376
00:22:20,345 --> 00:22:20,745
I can imagine.

377
00:22:21,065 --> 00:22:27,630
'cause these children were articulating
their senses, their the sounds and

378
00:22:27,630 --> 00:22:34,050
the feel of, of an experience in
the natural world, unlike incredible

379
00:22:34,050 --> 00:22:35,280
anything they've ever done before.

380
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:35,340
Yeah.

381
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:40,890
And they were asked to tell
you what it seemed like.

382
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:42,270
What did they see?

383
00:22:42,780 --> 00:22:43,980
And it was astonishing.

384
00:22:44,190 --> 00:22:51,540
So if you look at that way of looking at
collections, you realize that, um, uh,

385
00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:54,330
you've changed the nature of the place.

386
00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:54,990
Mm-hmm.

387
00:22:55,230 --> 00:22:58,950
And people's wake up,
people start to come.

388
00:22:59,220 --> 00:23:03,555
People start to say, we did the first
history of black exhibition in the United

389
00:23:03,555 --> 00:23:05,850
States on, on the history of slavery.

390
00:23:05,850 --> 00:23:05,910
Wow.

391
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,400
It had never been touched
by maritime museums.

392
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,150
It is a immigration,
maritime immigration story.

393
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:12,960
Right.

394
00:23:13,530 --> 00:23:15,395
And it, and it transformed America.

395
00:23:15,885 --> 00:23:15,945
Yeah.

396
00:23:16,375 --> 00:23:16,605
Yeah.

397
00:23:16,605 --> 00:23:18,915
The cultural impact of
slavery on America Yeah.

398
00:23:18,915 --> 00:23:23,745
Is alive and well and
astonishingly powerful still today.

399
00:23:24,195 --> 00:23:24,735
Absolutely.

400
00:23:24,735 --> 00:23:27,975
But we can go about all this history
and we can bitch on this, complain

401
00:23:27,975 --> 00:23:31,035
about this and that, and have racist
conversations to all the rest.

402
00:23:31,365 --> 00:23:37,035
But the cultural impact of slavery
is alive and well and part of our

403
00:23:37,035 --> 00:23:38,625
national culture and identity.

404
00:23:39,645 --> 00:23:45,195
And we had the first exhibit I
brought a priest from, from uh, uh,

405
00:23:45,225 --> 00:23:47,265
from Africa to bless the exhibit.

406
00:23:47,715 --> 00:23:50,895
And we marketed it to the
black churches of New York.

407
00:23:52,095 --> 00:23:59,835
And suddenly in the Maritime Museum
where the audience was 99% white, we

408
00:23:59,835 --> 00:24:07,275
were inundated with people of that
were all the descendants of slaves.

409
00:24:07,949 --> 00:24:08,189
Right.

410
00:24:08,189 --> 00:24:09,810
And we respected them.

411
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,730
We invited them in.

412
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,129
We asked for their participation.

413
00:24:14,129 --> 00:24:18,449
We asked for their sensibility,
and we were then suddenly an

414
00:24:18,449 --> 00:24:22,560
entirely, uh, different place again.

415
00:24:23,820 --> 00:24:30,330
So by essentially becoming a participatory
place, a place for invention, um, a

416
00:24:30,330 --> 00:24:36,929
place for, uh, um, uh, uh, attacks on
the con on the conventions, uh, and

417
00:24:36,929 --> 00:24:39,030
the prediction, uh, the expectations.

418
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:42,480
People began to say, well,
yes, we we'll support that.

419
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:43,379
Yes, we'll support that.

420
00:24:43,425 --> 00:24:43,625
Yeah.

421
00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:45,209
Yes, we'll support that.

422
00:24:45,570 --> 00:24:50,310
And we raised $40 million and we
built a new, we took an 1807 building

423
00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:53,850
in New York, lower Manhattan,
right opposite the Brooklyn Bridge.

424
00:24:53,850 --> 00:24:58,409
And we turned it into, but we also were
the landlord of the Fulton Fish Market.

425
00:24:58,860 --> 00:24:59,969
And it became an exhibit.

426
00:24:59,969 --> 00:25:00,899
I said, okay.

427
00:25:01,050 --> 00:25:01,199
Huh.

428
00:25:01,199 --> 00:25:04,439
The fish market is alive and
well, it's a living exhibit.

429
00:25:04,889 --> 00:25:07,800
Yeah, it's not a fake
little demonstration No.

430
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:08,790
Of an outdoor museum.

431
00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:11,070
It's the real bloody thing.

432
00:25:11,790 --> 00:25:16,050
And so we would have programs through
the, through the, the Fulton mish

433
00:25:16,050 --> 00:25:17,490
market in the middle of the night.

434
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,220
And so that we became the
largest elder hostile provider.

435
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:29,370
Um, in, in, uh, in, in the program
actually, we, I was the single largest

436
00:25:29,370 --> 00:25:31,649
buyer of hotel room nights in New York.

437
00:25:32,340 --> 00:25:38,070
And I would go and cut deals where I'd
get a $250 hotel room for $72 a night.

438
00:25:38,075 --> 00:25:38,385
Right.

439
00:25:38,490 --> 00:25:42,330
And then we would turn that and we'd
market that to, uh, elder hostel.

440
00:25:42,450 --> 00:25:47,399
And then we brought thousands,
thousands of mature travelers,

441
00:25:47,610 --> 00:25:49,500
interested, educated travelers.

442
00:25:49,740 --> 00:25:53,340
They would come in, they'd stayed in
the lo uh, Manhattan and New York.

443
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:56,460
They'd walk the Brooklyn Bridge,
they'd go to the field market,

444
00:25:56,610 --> 00:25:58,440
they'd go to the slavery exhibition.

445
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,960
They'd go sailing on the historic vessels.

446
00:26:01,260 --> 00:26:04,290
And it became an entirely new, um.

447
00:26:04,725 --> 00:26:06,945
Uh, uh, touristic, let's say.

448
00:26:07,275 --> 00:26:07,425
Yeah.

449
00:26:08,265 --> 00:26:11,745
Uh, uh, you know,
expeditionary experience.

450
00:26:12,465 --> 00:26:19,755
So the argument here is
not, um, necessarily to just

451
00:26:19,815 --> 00:26:23,145
bemoan the, the, the change.

452
00:26:23,595 --> 00:26:27,405
The idea is to drive change.

453
00:26:27,405 --> 00:26:27,465
Yeah.

454
00:26:27,465 --> 00:26:29,175
To invent change.

455
00:26:29,595 --> 00:26:34,395
And when you do that, you begin
to say and reach people who've

456
00:26:34,395 --> 00:26:35,865
never been touched before.

457
00:26:36,285 --> 00:26:36,375
Yeah.

458
00:26:37,439 --> 00:26:40,889
Social media at the time,
Facebook was all there was.

459
00:26:41,159 --> 00:26:41,340
Yep.

460
00:26:41,370 --> 00:26:42,510
But that was good enough.

461
00:26:42,959 --> 00:26:43,199
Yep.

462
00:26:43,649 --> 00:26:47,310
And we, it just astonished
me to watch the, the line of

463
00:26:47,310 --> 00:26:49,620
participations and followers mm-hmm.

464
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,264
And the comments and the, and
the forwards and the reposts

465
00:26:53,365 --> 00:26:55,260
and all that sort of stuff.

466
00:26:55,260 --> 00:26:59,070
And then with LinkedIn I said, okay,
we're not gonna just do generic LinkedIn.

467
00:26:59,070 --> 00:27:02,040
We're gonna say, you
have to be in this group.

468
00:27:02,340 --> 00:27:07,679
You have to be, um, um, you
have to be a professional.

469
00:27:07,679 --> 00:27:07,770
Right.

470
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,120
You have to be scientist.

471
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:09,780
A policy.

472
00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:09,840
Yeah.

473
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,110
Whatever future, whatever it
may be in the Ocean sphere.

474
00:27:13,470 --> 00:27:17,159
And, uh, I think we're at 16,600.

475
00:27:17,399 --> 00:27:19,080
That's a really good list.

476
00:27:19,649 --> 00:27:20,010
Absolutely.

477
00:27:20,010 --> 00:27:22,050
Those are people who
can make a difference.

478
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:22,830
Yeah.

479
00:27:22,830 --> 00:27:23,010
Right.

480
00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:32,760
Um, And then two more, uh, if
you, uh, um, uh, if you want to.

481
00:27:34,949 --> 00:27:36,300
Expand your audience.

482
00:27:36,300 --> 00:27:37,770
You can, you can be a museum.

483
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,260
So we started doing online exhibits.

484
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:44,820
We took online exhibits from other
maritime museums and promoted them.

485
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:49,889
Uh, then there came Road, world
Ocean Radio wrote World Ocean Radio.

486
00:27:49,889 --> 00:27:55,290
I just ra wrote and recorded today the
775th edition of Worlders and Radio.

487
00:27:55,919 --> 00:27:56,460
Amazing.

488
00:27:57,570 --> 00:27:59,520
And it's heard all over the world.

489
00:27:59,909 --> 00:28:00,060
Yeah.

490
00:28:00,060 --> 00:28:05,639
Both Coastal Africa, Hong Kong,
New Zealand, Australia, uh, across

491
00:28:05,639 --> 00:28:10,564
the United States through, uh,
not-for-profit radio, NPR AquaPORT,

492
00:28:10,889 --> 00:28:14,490
uh, audio port and uh, uh, PRX.

493
00:28:14,879 --> 00:28:23,669
Uh, and, um, all of these things
represent, um, a contribution to our

494
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:30,389
calculation of value, which is our
job is to bring together a global

495
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:32,014
community of citizens of the Ocean.

496
00:28:32,805 --> 00:28:33,135
Right.

497
00:28:33,135 --> 00:28:37,875
And the tools allow us to
reach those people anywhere.

498
00:28:39,825 --> 00:28:41,085
And then I'll give you one more.

499
00:28:41,565 --> 00:28:41,985
All right.

500
00:28:42,495 --> 00:28:47,685
Um, we decided about four years ago,
I said, look, we have to do more

501
00:28:47,685 --> 00:28:49,455
than we have to become educators.

502
00:28:49,905 --> 00:28:49,995
Mm-hmm.

503
00:28:50,265 --> 00:28:53,085
Um, beyond what we have
already been doing.

504
00:28:53,505 --> 00:28:56,925
So we created, um, something
called World Ocean, Ocean Explorer.

505
00:28:56,925 --> 00:29:00,015
I had founded two high schools
in the Marine environment.

506
00:29:00,255 --> 00:29:02,865
One in New Haven called the
Harbor School, and the other,

507
00:29:02,895 --> 00:29:04,575
uh, no, called the Sound School.

508
00:29:04,815 --> 00:29:08,205
And the one in New York on Ellis,
uh, on Governor's Island called,

509
00:29:08,565 --> 00:29:12,165
um, uh, the, uh, the Harbor School.

510
00:29:12,165 --> 00:29:16,815
And these are, yeah, these are
public high schools, uh, that run

511
00:29:16,815 --> 00:29:20,235
by the local systems, education
departments of education.

512
00:29:20,325 --> 00:29:20,415
Mm-hmm.

513
00:29:20,655 --> 00:29:24,825
But the entire, uh, curriculum
is water based, is Ocean based.

514
00:29:25,095 --> 00:29:25,545
That's so cool.

515
00:29:25,545 --> 00:29:27,645
And they've been going for 20 years now.

516
00:29:28,215 --> 00:29:31,035
Uh, and the, the, so everybody
who goes through that school

517
00:29:31,035 --> 00:29:31,560
goes through that program.

518
00:29:31,935 --> 00:29:32,715
It goes through.

519
00:29:32,715 --> 00:29:33,465
That's program.

520
00:29:33,465 --> 00:29:35,145
It's not a choice, not elective.

521
00:29:35,145 --> 00:29:35,205
Yeah.

522
00:29:35,565 --> 00:29:39,945
Um, it has professional training,
it has agricultural training.

523
00:29:39,950 --> 00:29:40,129
Yes.

524
00:29:40,155 --> 00:29:43,215
It sort creates, it
creates jobs for people.

525
00:29:43,335 --> 00:29:43,425
Mm-hmm.

526
00:29:43,665 --> 00:29:45,254
These are inner city kids, right?

527
00:29:45,345 --> 00:29:45,435
Mm-hmm.

528
00:29:45,675 --> 00:29:49,455
New Haven, poor,
multiracial, inner city kids.

529
00:29:50,205 --> 00:29:54,885
Sometimes those kids are an hour
on the train to get to the trophy,

530
00:29:54,945 --> 00:29:56,504
to get to the ferry, right.

531
00:29:56,774 --> 00:29:59,595
To get, uh, to the school on time.

532
00:29:59,804 --> 00:30:01,125
They miss the ferry.

533
00:30:01,335 --> 00:30:03,254
They're, they, they lose the day.

534
00:30:03,825 --> 00:30:04,095
Right.

535
00:30:04,095 --> 00:30:07,544
So the discipline of just
going to school, it's huge.

536
00:30:07,815 --> 00:30:09,524
Is, is, is part of the process.

537
00:30:09,554 --> 00:30:09,855
Yeah.

538
00:30:10,304 --> 00:30:13,245
Anyway, so the idea was to
create a virtual aquarium,

539
00:30:14,054 --> 00:30:16,575
and, uh, it was, uh, and we.

540
00:30:17,159 --> 00:30:21,570
We, uh, we, I had myself and
one other person part-time.

541
00:30:22,290 --> 00:30:28,439
Uh, And then we brought in another person,
part-time, who is a, uh, a, a, a designer.

542
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:32,610
Uh, he has a PhD, but he's a
platform designer, software guy.

543
00:30:33,420 --> 00:30:34,560
Great man, great guy.

544
00:30:34,620 --> 00:30:39,420
And he and, uh, and the, and the,
and the managing director and myself

545
00:30:40,110 --> 00:30:45,420
essentially started to build this, this
thing, uh, it's going to have 10 modules.

546
00:30:45,420 --> 00:30:49,080
It, it's going to document as a
virtual aquarium, you literally,

547
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,850
it's built on a gaming platform.

548
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:51,450
Yeah.

549
00:30:51,450 --> 00:30:56,550
You walk in, you can go to through
exhibits, you can participate.

550
00:30:56,790 --> 00:30:58,740
There's an associated curriculum.

551
00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:01,260
Um, and it's been funded.

552
00:31:01,470 --> 00:31:05,430
The, the first one on the Deep Sea
has been funded now for three years

553
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:06,900
by the Schmidt Ocean Institute.

554
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:07,440
Yeah.

555
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:07,450
Uh.

556
00:31:08,054 --> 00:31:12,825
Uh, other organizations and funders
are seeing it as a, as a really

557
00:31:12,825 --> 00:31:15,345
incredible return on investment mm-hmm.

558
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:20,294
Of, of reaching millions of people with
a very small, focused contribution.

559
00:31:20,774 --> 00:31:26,955
Uh, and we now have, uh, are have
cohorts of teachers in all around

560
00:31:26,955 --> 00:31:31,905
the world, um, and they are testing
the, the, the program in the schools.

561
00:31:32,175 --> 00:31:33,855
We have photographs and videos.

562
00:31:34,215 --> 00:31:38,024
We're now essentially creating
teaching stations that can go into

563
00:31:38,024 --> 00:31:42,705
any environmental organization
in the world, uh, for free.

564
00:31:43,274 --> 00:31:43,575
Mm-hmm.

565
00:31:44,235 --> 00:31:47,625
It's available to you for free, no
barrier entry accessible to everybody.

566
00:31:47,955 --> 00:31:51,135
You just have to go on the website,
on any device, anywhere at any time.

567
00:31:51,314 --> 00:31:51,465
Yeah.

568
00:31:51,465 --> 00:31:56,534
Uh, no barrier entry, including
language next month, this December we

569
00:31:56,534 --> 00:32:01,064
will try, it will be translated into,
uh, French, Spanish, and Portuguese.

570
00:32:01,304 --> 00:32:06,435
So that opens us up into, uh, more
into Africa and into Latin America.

571
00:32:06,495 --> 00:32:06,554
Yeah.

572
00:32:06,735 --> 00:32:07,004
Yeah.

573
00:32:07,010 --> 00:32:10,485
South America, uh, and uh,
also German and Arabic.

574
00:32:10,574 --> 00:32:16,364
Um, And so that the, what the Asian
languages are to come Chinese and

575
00:32:16,364 --> 00:32:22,064
Japanese, but ultimately even that
barrier to entry will be eradicated.

576
00:32:22,784 --> 00:32:23,084
Right.

577
00:32:23,084 --> 00:32:27,284
And it, it is all available at no cost.

578
00:32:28,395 --> 00:32:30,645
I think that's a, that's a
really important aspect is the

579
00:32:30,645 --> 00:32:34,485
accessibility, because, you know,
a lot of these things, these games,

580
00:32:34,485 --> 00:32:35,745
you know, there's always a payment.

581
00:32:35,745 --> 00:32:38,774
There's always a monthly plan, a monthly
subscription and things like that.

582
00:32:39,195 --> 00:32:41,864
But, you know, you, you know,
we need to educate everybody.

583
00:32:41,864 --> 00:32:46,604
It's not just a specific sector of,
of the population, you know, whether

584
00:32:46,604 --> 00:32:48,375
it be in the US or, or elsewhere.

585
00:32:48,735 --> 00:32:50,895
Uh, having this aspect.

586
00:32:51,314 --> 00:32:54,614
Um, have you seen just an uptake
in the amount of people there?

587
00:32:54,614 --> 00:32:56,264
Are you already seeing an
uptake in the amount of people

588
00:32:56,264 --> 00:32:57,165
that are, that are playing it?

589
00:32:57,524 --> 00:32:58,094
Absolutely.

590
00:32:58,170 --> 00:32:58,230
Yeah.

591
00:32:58,620 --> 00:32:59,370
Absolutely.

592
00:32:59,370 --> 00:33:04,740
And the, and our best marketeers are
the, our best marketers are the teachers.

593
00:33:05,220 --> 00:33:05,400
Yeah.

594
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:05,760
And the teachers.

595
00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:08,850
The teach the, the thing in the
past, as you heard, you have a

596
00:33:08,850 --> 00:33:12,270
package, uh, and you're trying
to, you, you have to sell it.

597
00:33:12,750 --> 00:33:15,900
And so the administrator, the
principal, or the Board of education

598
00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:17,730
said, oh, there's no money now.

599
00:33:17,730 --> 00:33:18,510
You can't do that.

600
00:33:18,510 --> 00:33:21,205
You don't have enough money to buy
paper and pencils so you can Right.

601
00:33:21,585 --> 00:33:22,440
You can't afford this.

602
00:33:22,590 --> 00:33:22,890
No.

603
00:33:25,230 --> 00:33:26,760
Completely bypassed.

604
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:28,620
This is available to the teacher.

605
00:33:28,620 --> 00:33:31,020
Teacher has their stem and steam.

606
00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:33,030
There are all these
criteria and standards.

607
00:33:33,030 --> 00:33:33,090
Yeah.

608
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,580
All of it's met it by design.

609
00:33:36,030 --> 00:33:36,210
Yeah.

610
00:33:36,210 --> 00:33:39,570
But what happens is, is that the
teachers are looking around for the

611
00:33:39,570 --> 00:33:41,820
easiest, best, most effective tool.

612
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:45,330
And these kids are all computer.

613
00:33:46,065 --> 00:33:46,605
Literate.

614
00:33:47,055 --> 00:33:48,495
They know how to do it.

615
00:33:48,735 --> 00:33:52,245
They know how to operate game,
a game on a gaming platform.

616
00:33:52,425 --> 00:33:52,635
Yep.

617
00:33:52,635 --> 00:33:56,955
And so we make it not, there's no
guns, there's no explosions, there's

618
00:33:56,955 --> 00:33:59,265
no rewards, none of that stuff.

619
00:33:59,295 --> 00:34:00,105
It's school.

620
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:00,920
Mm-hmm.

621
00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:01,800
Mm-hmm.

622
00:34:02,925 --> 00:34:07,065
But it, uh, but it can be, let's
call it education, but it, so it

623
00:34:07,065 --> 00:34:13,034
can be, uh, a homeschooling parent
can use it to great advantage.

624
00:34:13,335 --> 00:34:13,725
Yeah.

625
00:34:13,725 --> 00:34:19,784
Uh, an aquarium or a museum, American
museum could use it inside their,

626
00:34:19,844 --> 00:34:23,025
um, uh, uh, education department.

627
00:34:23,235 --> 00:34:23,445
Yeah.

628
00:34:23,445 --> 00:34:26,925
In a way that they don't have to go
out and spend hundreds of thousands of

629
00:34:26,925 --> 00:34:29,955
dollars to build an interactive exhibit.

630
00:34:30,315 --> 00:34:33,705
They've got it for free
in seven languages.

631
00:34:34,304 --> 00:34:34,725
I love it.

632
00:34:34,905 --> 00:34:37,605
Think, but you have to,
what you have to do.

633
00:34:37,695 --> 00:34:39,285
Where's the, where's the tie up?

634
00:34:39,285 --> 00:34:41,685
The tie up is the conventional thinking.

635
00:34:41,685 --> 00:34:46,425
The teacher that says, uh, I
don't know, or the administrator

636
00:34:46,425 --> 00:34:47,835
says, well, we can't afford that.

637
00:34:47,835 --> 00:34:49,185
We've never done it before.

638
00:34:49,395 --> 00:34:49,815
Yeah.

639
00:34:50,235 --> 00:34:55,125
That it's getting, that, that's convincing
them is selling them on the, the fact that

640
00:34:55,125 --> 00:34:56,985
not only is it free, but it's beneficial.

641
00:34:57,255 --> 00:35:00,585
But the teacher's, your agent,
the teacher is your, is your

642
00:35:00,585 --> 00:35:02,565
agent, your subversive agent?

643
00:35:02,565 --> 00:35:07,515
The teacher says to the science
coordinator in the department, Hey,

644
00:35:07,905 --> 00:35:09,525
I'm supposed to teach these principals.

645
00:35:09,915 --> 00:35:10,215
Yeah.

646
00:35:10,215 --> 00:35:11,625
All of those principals are in here.

647
00:35:11,775 --> 00:35:13,245
Look at the kids' faces.

648
00:35:13,425 --> 00:35:14,595
Look at what's happening.

649
00:35:14,985 --> 00:35:16,035
Look at what they're doing.

650
00:35:16,275 --> 00:35:18,315
They're now making models of whale falls.

651
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:19,110
They're doing Yeah.

652
00:35:19,110 --> 00:35:22,695
They're doing interactive things
with, with high hydrothermal vent.

653
00:35:22,935 --> 00:35:28,635
They're doing all of this stuff that,
that before was just nonsense to them.

654
00:35:29,385 --> 00:35:32,685
They're now doing it in an
excited and participatory way,

655
00:35:32,865 --> 00:35:34,725
and that's how they're learning.

656
00:35:35,385 --> 00:35:35,685
Yeah.

657
00:35:36,045 --> 00:35:40,905
I argue that everything that we
do is to that end at that level

658
00:35:40,905 --> 00:35:45,915
of, of, of, of sophistication
and at that economy of cost.

659
00:35:47,470 --> 00:35:47,890
Unreal.

660
00:35:49,110 --> 00:35:49,530
Unreal.

661
00:35:49,535 --> 00:35:50,535
And why?

662
00:35:50,835 --> 00:35:51,705
And you know what?

663
00:35:51,795 --> 00:35:55,275
I, I, you know who, I have to be careful,

664
00:35:57,375 --> 00:36:03,555
you know, I'm a bit of a, I, I do, uh,
I do speak my mind and that's fine.

665
00:36:04,125 --> 00:36:04,605
Yeah.

666
00:36:04,605 --> 00:36:04,665
Yeah.

667
00:36:04,665 --> 00:36:12,975
Well, certain times, but often, um, you
approach a funder and the funder says,

668
00:36:12,975 --> 00:36:14,625
well, you know, we have our program.

669
00:36:14,970 --> 00:36:17,400
The parameters and this,
that, and the other thing.

670
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,660
And, And then, or you, you've,
uh, or you, you finally find

671
00:36:21,660 --> 00:36:23,250
your way into a foundation.

672
00:36:23,250 --> 00:36:24,480
Very, not so easy to do.

673
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,400
They just don't write,
open up the website.

674
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:26,610
No, for sure.

675
00:36:27,420 --> 00:36:29,880
Oh, see, finally, weasel your way in.

676
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,900
Somehow, somehow, uh, and you've
gotta contact and the connection you

677
00:36:34,140 --> 00:36:35,730
get there and you're, oh, excited.

678
00:36:35,730 --> 00:36:36,810
I got to put this down.

679
00:36:37,020 --> 00:36:38,310
Meets all the criteria.

680
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:38,610
It's winner, right?

681
00:36:39,450 --> 00:36:40,950
Oh, no.

682
00:36:41,130 --> 00:36:46,140
Julia just retired or left to go have
her third child, And so we're going

683
00:36:46,140 --> 00:36:47,970
to have to hire a new program officer.

684
00:36:48,210 --> 00:36:52,830
Oh, and by the way, we're going to
do a reevaluation of our, of our,

685
00:36:52,890 --> 00:36:55,410
uh, our program, uh, parameters.

686
00:36:55,770 --> 00:37:00,300
And, uh, we may not even be
interested in the Ocean in 12 months.

687
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:01,260
Yeah.

688
00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:02,370
I'll give you another example.

689
00:37:02,370 --> 00:37:08,610
The worst one of all, uh, a major
international foundation with a long

690
00:37:08,610 --> 00:37:11,130
history in, in a particular subject.

691
00:37:12,134 --> 00:37:14,595
Uh, I had met the director.

692
00:37:14,654 --> 00:37:18,765
I had met the staff people I
had been encouraged to apply.

693
00:37:19,095 --> 00:37:21,315
We were in their suite spot.

694
00:37:21,615 --> 00:37:23,625
It was about a amount of money.

695
00:37:23,805 --> 00:37:26,025
Well, within the, their capacity.

696
00:37:26,384 --> 00:37:26,565
Yeah.

697
00:37:26,569 --> 00:37:30,465
They took the, they, they gave us
an incredibly difficult format.

698
00:37:30,705 --> 00:37:33,105
We met the format, put it all in there.

699
00:37:33,674 --> 00:37:47,900
They kept it for 365 days and sent us
a rote, formulaic email of rejection.

700
00:37:49,525 --> 00:37:57,180
And I said to myself, okay, I, people
have said, I've heard no so many times.

701
00:37:57,330 --> 00:37:57,900
Yeah.

702
00:37:58,290 --> 00:37:59,730
I was a fiction writer for years.

703
00:37:59,730 --> 00:38:04,259
I was submitting to stories, to the, I was
submitting to the New Yorker or the, the,

704
00:38:04,259 --> 00:38:06,720
the Kenyan Journal or whatever it may be.

705
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:11,520
I got, I have a file here filled
with nos notes from editors and

706
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,800
you know all, oh, I'm sorry.

707
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:14,730
No, no, no, no.

708
00:38:14,970 --> 00:38:16,200
I've heard a million nos.

709
00:38:16,590 --> 00:38:16,920
Yeah.

710
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,050
That one hurt more than anything.

711
00:38:19,650 --> 00:38:19,770
Mm-hmm.

712
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:20,880
Because

713
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,030
what do you do?

714
00:38:24,210 --> 00:38:28,800
Well, you, you, you, you walk away
and you just live a fight again.

715
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,190
You've done a lot of work so that work
can be picked up and taken someplace

716
00:38:32,190 --> 00:38:34,320
else, and you then, you never know.

717
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,550
You, you walk into a place one day
and somebody says, what you do what?

718
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,540
And, um, I said, well,
I, I can show it to you.

719
00:38:42,540 --> 00:38:43,370
I can show it to you on my.

720
00:38:43,860 --> 00:38:45,150
I'll show it to you on my phone.

721
00:38:45,150 --> 00:38:47,760
I like right here I can,
we can walk through it.

722
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:51,210
You can see a whole video if you
wanna see it, see how it works.

723
00:38:51,210 --> 00:38:52,855
See the kids laughing
and playing and doing.

724
00:38:52,855 --> 00:38:53,135
Mm-hmm.

725
00:38:53,875 --> 00:38:58,890
Uh, and they said, this is an
incredible, uh, how are you funded?

726
00:38:58,890 --> 00:39:05,250
And I said, well, we're funded by, we're
funded by prescient individuals, people

727
00:39:05,250 --> 00:39:12,025
who have the capacity of an openness to
look forward, not stuck in the moment.

728
00:39:12,205 --> 00:39:12,625
Mm-hmm.

729
00:39:12,705 --> 00:39:14,310
And not stuck in the past.

730
00:39:14,790 --> 00:39:15,120
Yeah.

731
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:22,290
So, um, you know, uh, And then we, not
only, we have a publications program.

732
00:39:22,290 --> 00:39:25,530
We've done a whole bunch of
books, uh, mine and others.

733
00:39:25,950 --> 00:39:32,460
Um, uh, and my swan song is next year,
which is basically called, uh, volution

734
00:39:32,460 --> 00:39:34,350
How the Ocean Will Save Civilization.

735
00:39:34,860 --> 00:39:36,300
We don't have a plan.

736
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:38,250
We don't have a plan.

737
00:39:38,759 --> 00:39:39,090
Yeah.

738
00:39:39,330 --> 00:39:39,840
National.

739
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,529
We have a, at one point we had two
national Ocean plans in the United States.

740
00:39:43,650 --> 00:39:44,400
Doesn't matter.

741
00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:46,020
Nobody's implemented them.

742
00:39:46,020 --> 00:39:49,410
Now there's nobody responsible for
actually doing anything with them.

743
00:39:49,890 --> 00:39:50,220
Right.

744
00:39:50,310 --> 00:39:55,410
There's no money Um, So how do
you expect there, uh, there to be

745
00:39:55,410 --> 00:39:59,580
a national agenda or a national
progress if there is no plan?

746
00:40:00,420 --> 00:40:05,970
And the plan, if it's only driven
by science and policy has already

747
00:40:05,970 --> 00:40:08,670
essentially proven that it doesn't work.

748
00:40:08,730 --> 00:40:09,029
Right.

749
00:40:09,330 --> 00:40:09,630
Yeah.

750
00:40:09,870 --> 00:40:11,549
And so what's the plan?

751
00:40:11,549 --> 00:40:12,630
So I'm writing a plan.

752
00:40:13,980 --> 00:40:14,370
I like it.

753
00:40:16,049 --> 00:40:16,590
I like, I like it.

754
00:40:16,590 --> 00:40:17,100
I like it.

755
00:40:17,100 --> 00:40:18,000
This is what I like.

756
00:40:18,210 --> 00:40:20,730
'cause you and I are similar
in, in a lot of ways.

757
00:40:20,970 --> 00:40:25,080
Uh, it's, if it's not
there, you're gonna do it.

758
00:40:26,250 --> 00:40:26,520
Right?

759
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:26,580
Yeah.

760
00:40:26,610 --> 00:40:29,730
Like, if it's like, you know,
you, you felt the call at, you

761
00:40:29,730 --> 00:40:30,900
know, right from the beginning.

762
00:40:31,365 --> 00:40:31,635
Okay.

763
00:40:31,635 --> 00:40:34,725
We need a virtual platform to reach
out to people, to educate people.

764
00:40:34,725 --> 00:40:36,165
We need to make it accessible.

765
00:40:36,405 --> 00:40:37,935
We need to make it interesting.

766
00:40:37,935 --> 00:40:42,015
We need to ensure that people are ready
for this and they can access it and they

767
00:40:42,015 --> 00:40:43,455
can enjoy it, and they can learn from it.

768
00:40:43,515 --> 00:40:44,175
You built that.

769
00:40:44,715 --> 00:40:47,325
You didn't wait for, you
know, the UN to build it.

770
00:40:47,325 --> 00:40:50,085
You didn't wait for the
US government to build it.

771
00:40:50,085 --> 00:40:52,935
You didn't wait for other governments
to build it, or other big, large

772
00:40:52,935 --> 00:40:54,405
organizations who could have built it.

773
00:40:54,735 --> 00:40:55,395
Nobody built it.

774
00:40:55,395 --> 00:40:58,065
You were like, all right,
I'm gonna build it.

775
00:40:58,155 --> 00:41:00,345
I'm the same way with, with the podcast.

776
00:41:00,345 --> 00:41:03,465
For me, I was like, nobody's
talking about this stuff.

777
00:41:04,065 --> 00:41:06,345
You know, nobody's talking about
specific, you know, projects.

778
00:41:06,345 --> 00:41:09,345
Nobody's talking about the, to the people
and getting interviews and this and that.

779
00:41:09,465 --> 00:41:10,905
At that time, nobody was talking about it.

780
00:41:10,905 --> 00:41:13,905
Obviously, more people are talking
about it now, but it's like, it's that

781
00:41:14,205 --> 00:41:15,705
conservation aspect and conservation.

782
00:41:15,705 --> 00:41:16,455
So I'm like, you know what?

783
00:41:16,905 --> 00:41:17,595
I'm gonna start it.

784
00:41:18,195 --> 00:41:18,375
You know?

785
00:41:18,375 --> 00:41:20,205
We doesn't have to do
it with a huge budget.

786
00:41:20,235 --> 00:41:22,605
You know, it's actually kind, kind of
interesting Peter, and I'm sure we could

787
00:41:22,605 --> 00:41:24,895
say the same thing for you when you,
when you first started with your team.

788
00:41:25,710 --> 00:41:28,980
I had a friend of mine who, who I, a good
friend of mine who, who I was talking

789
00:41:28,980 --> 00:41:32,610
to a couple weeks ago, and he said, you
know, Andrew, he is like, everything you

790
00:41:32,610 --> 00:41:36,510
do, I was telling him all the stuff I
do, like my whole process for, for the,

791
00:41:36,510 --> 00:41:38,670
to publish an episode in each podcast.

792
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:43,770
And, and he is like, everything you do, it
would take like 12 people in a nonprofit

793
00:41:43,770 --> 00:41:46,740
organization to do Exactly right.

794
00:41:46,740 --> 00:41:49,170
And I'm just like, I don't
understand how that's happened.

795
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,480
Like, for me it's just
like, let's just do it.

796
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,720
Like if we, if it needs to get done,
I'll figure out a way to get done.

797
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:58,950
And, and we are, I'm very fortunate
in the time that we live in today,

798
00:41:59,940 --> 00:42:01,680
you know, I can, I can do it.

799
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,990
Like, I can schedule
posts, I can do stuff.

800
00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:05,640
Like, it's easy to start a podcast.

801
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,450
Like for you when you did radio, it must
have been a lot more challenging to do,

802
00:42:09,450 --> 00:42:14,190
but you did it and we've, we, we both
find ways to do stuff to bring it to

803
00:42:14,190 --> 00:42:16,200
the people, whether it's going to be.

804
00:42:17,025 --> 00:42:21,674
Super, super popular or just
reach small audiences around the

805
00:42:21,674 --> 00:42:24,015
world and make it accessible.

806
00:42:24,015 --> 00:42:27,884
And being able to educate people and
grow that, and grow that and grow that.

807
00:42:28,845 --> 00:42:31,545
And then we get into a big, we get into
a point like, you know, for me, I've

808
00:42:31,545 --> 00:42:34,005
had almost 3 million downloads for you.

809
00:42:34,005 --> 00:42:37,065
You've reached millions and millions
of people across the world, you

810
00:42:37,065 --> 00:42:39,165
know, over over 20 some odd years.

811
00:42:39,705 --> 00:42:40,815
And we've been able to do that.

812
00:42:40,815 --> 00:42:43,035
Just being like, yeah, this,
this is the call to action.

813
00:42:43,065 --> 00:42:44,505
Okay, let's do the call to action.

814
00:42:44,505 --> 00:42:45,495
Nobody else is gonna do it.

815
00:42:45,495 --> 00:42:45,795
All right.

816
00:42:45,915 --> 00:42:48,495
You're not gonna, you know,
you're not gonna fund it like

817
00:42:48,495 --> 00:42:50,384
multimillion dollars a year.

818
00:42:50,415 --> 00:42:50,984
Okay, fine.

819
00:42:50,984 --> 00:42:53,865
We'll just kind of piece it
together through grants and, you

820
00:42:53,865 --> 00:42:57,944
know, like with this explorer
through the Smit Ocean Smith, Smit

821
00:42:57,944 --> 00:42:59,654
Ocean Institute, things like that.

822
00:42:59,654 --> 00:43:03,915
People who can get it and sell it and
work your butt off as sort of like a,

823
00:43:04,005 --> 00:43:08,895
like an independent organization that's
bringing all these people together, right.

824
00:43:09,615 --> 00:43:11,325
Well, take me, take me through like that.

825
00:43:11,325 --> 00:43:14,955
Like, do you get I get frustrated
every once in a while by people

826
00:43:14,955 --> 00:43:17,265
not doing it on a bigger scale.

827
00:43:18,105 --> 00:43:21,075
Do you get frustrated by the, like,
you know, you, you talked about

828
00:43:21,075 --> 00:43:23,895
some of the frustrations that you
get, you seeing it as people want

829
00:43:23,895 --> 00:43:27,195
it, you seeing it's accessible,
but not getting the funding for it.

830
00:43:27,465 --> 00:43:29,865
When you get frustrated
like that, what do you do?

831
00:43:29,955 --> 00:43:33,195
What's the next step when
you go through that process?

832
00:43:34,275 --> 00:43:36,615
I, um, I, I,

833
00:43:38,745 --> 00:43:43,185
I go, um, I go to my Ocean space.

834
00:43:43,695 --> 00:43:45,135
I go to my Ocean place.

835
00:43:45,975 --> 00:43:47,715
Uh, I, it's, uh,

836
00:43:50,535 --> 00:43:51,855
seven or eight minutes away.

837
00:43:52,275 --> 00:43:52,485
Yeah.

838
00:43:52,485 --> 00:43:55,005
Uh, and uh, I just go and sit there.

839
00:43:55,935 --> 00:43:56,115
Right.

840
00:43:56,115 --> 00:43:59,715
I've written a book, a book
called Oceanic Feeling and, and,

841
00:43:59,715 --> 00:44:00,825
uh, wrote about it this morning.

842
00:44:00,825 --> 00:44:07,150
Today, you know, you, you, there
is no finer place to be alone.

843
00:44:08,295 --> 00:44:16,065
Um, and to have the full force
of experience with nature at

844
00:44:16,065 --> 00:44:18,345
every element of your senses.

845
00:44:18,375 --> 00:44:22,185
Mm. Uh, and it doesn't take much.

846
00:44:22,545 --> 00:44:27,045
You don't have to buy
clothes to sit for yoga.

847
00:44:27,525 --> 00:44:29,835
You don't have to drive someplace.

848
00:44:30,254 --> 00:44:32,835
Uh, you don't have to do any of that.

849
00:44:33,464 --> 00:44:40,035
Um, and, you know, all the great
religions have seen the Ocean and water

850
00:44:40,424 --> 00:44:43,154
as a place for sustenance and solace.

851
00:44:43,725 --> 00:44:51,674
Um, we used to, uh, I used to marvel
at, um, uh, Saturday morning attendance

852
00:44:51,674 --> 00:44:58,214
spikes at the museum, Christian Adams,
uh, at the, uh, uh, uh, attendance

853
00:44:58,214 --> 00:45:01,875
spikes at the, uh, uh, museum.

854
00:45:01,875 --> 00:45:02,415
Mm-hmm.

855
00:45:02,654 --> 00:45:04,935
And it was, uh, Orthodox Jewish couples.

856
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:10,740
And, uh, you know, big Orthodox
community out in, in Brooklyn, uh Right.

857
00:45:10,740 --> 00:45:17,280
They would come there to court and it
was con it was safe and by the water.

858
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:18,090
Mm-hmm.

859
00:45:18,330 --> 00:45:21,720
And just was a place that was
conducive to getting to know somebody.

860
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:22,410
Right.

861
00:45:22,415 --> 00:45:29,820
Uh, and um, the same thing happens
for me when you go out on the water,

862
00:45:29,850 --> 00:45:31,740
say with my wife and we go sailing.

863
00:45:31,740 --> 00:45:34,350
She's the captain because
she's very good at it.

864
00:45:34,860 --> 00:45:37,500
Um, uh, our relationship.

865
00:45:38,310 --> 00:45:40,110
Is reduced to essentials.

866
00:45:40,740 --> 00:45:40,920
Yeah.

867
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,820
And we know what our roles are and we
know where we are and we know mm-hmm.

868
00:45:45,060 --> 00:45:47,130
Why it's valuable for us.

869
00:45:47,220 --> 00:45:50,220
And we've taught it to our
children and we've taught it

870
00:45:50,220 --> 00:45:51,600
to other people's children.

871
00:45:51,810 --> 00:45:55,620
And we then engaged in education
and organization that teach

872
00:45:55,620 --> 00:45:56,910
it to other people's children.

873
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,130
So the whole thing is part and parcel.

874
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,950
I, when I was in St. Louis at
age 14 or 15, you could, for 10

875
00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:07,350
cents, you could take a street
car and go down to the river.

876
00:46:07,350 --> 00:46:08,190
Mm-hmm.

877
00:46:08,250 --> 00:46:10,830
And I would go down to the
river and sit in front of the

878
00:46:10,830 --> 00:46:12,360
old courthouse in St. Louis.

879
00:46:12,930 --> 00:46:14,460
Uh, and it was a slave place.

880
00:46:14,460 --> 00:46:15,360
It was a slave market.

881
00:46:16,049 --> 00:46:20,610
And I knew enough about it to go
and sit there, and I'd go and sit

882
00:46:20,610 --> 00:46:21,690
there and there'd be nobody there.

883
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:28,590
And I'd sit in a historic place in a
kind of highly emotional evocation.

884
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:33,545
Both real and metaphor of of of,
of a, of a national, of a, of a,

885
00:46:33,545 --> 00:46:36,360
of a national identity crisis.

886
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:43,650
I would see the working waterfront, I
would see the, the raw nature of the

887
00:46:43,650 --> 00:46:50,700
river passing through the big city
and all of those things factored in.

888
00:46:51,150 --> 00:46:51,810
Yeah, of course.

889
00:46:51,870 --> 00:46:52,800
In some way.

890
00:46:53,070 --> 00:46:58,620
Um, I, uh, I remember one night
I was, I, I was working for the

891
00:46:58,620 --> 00:47:00,300
newspaper there, summer job.

892
00:47:00,510 --> 00:47:09,810
And I went down and I, I, uh, I, uh, uh,
got a call to go out and as I went down,

893
00:47:09,810 --> 00:47:13,770
there were guy, a couple of guys on the
riverside and they had a truck down there

894
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,240
and they just pulled a big turtle out of
the big, huge turtle out of the river.

895
00:47:19,110 --> 00:47:20,250
And uh, uh.

896
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,710
And I just marveled at that.

897
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:24,810
And they had this thing and they
were lifting up, throw it in the

898
00:47:24,810 --> 00:47:26,610
trunk of the car, and they're
gonna take it back and they're

899
00:47:26,610 --> 00:47:27,690
gonna, they're gonna eat the truck.

900
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,870
But I was on my way to the, to the
river police boat, uh, and we went

901
00:47:33,870 --> 00:47:37,920
out and within 30 minutes after seeing
the turtle, we, we pulled what's

902
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,945
called a floater out of the river.

903
00:47:40,885 --> 00:47:42,825
That's the first time I'd
ever seen a dead person.

904
00:47:43,085 --> 00:47:43,505
Mm-hmm.

905
00:47:43,645 --> 00:47:46,440
I'd never seen a dead person
since in that condition.

906
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:54,750
Uh, it was a, an enormously powerful
evening where I had seen people without

907
00:47:54,750 --> 00:47:57,510
food, harvesting food from the river.

908
00:47:57,870 --> 00:47:57,990
Yeah.

909
00:47:57,990 --> 00:48:02,280
And then I went out and I found
somebody that the river had taken back.

910
00:48:02,610 --> 00:48:02,970
Right.

911
00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:03,660
Right.

912
00:48:04,170 --> 00:48:05,250
I mean, come on.

913
00:48:05,250 --> 00:48:05,310
Yeah.

914
00:48:05,580 --> 00:48:09,150
It's, it's, it's, it's all there.

915
00:48:09,180 --> 00:48:10,740
That's the beautiful thing about it.

916
00:48:10,740 --> 00:48:13,830
And you don't have to pay, you
don't have to show your credit card.

917
00:48:14,340 --> 00:48:14,400
No.

918
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,380
You don't have to do any
of that kind of stuff.

919
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:18,480
Um, and, uh.

920
00:48:19,214 --> 00:48:21,254
So the sea connects all things.

921
00:48:21,285 --> 00:48:25,725
Yeah, it does at every level of
human civilization, including the

922
00:48:25,725 --> 00:48:27,975
psychological, the psychological level.

923
00:48:29,055 --> 00:48:29,355
Absolutely.

924
00:48:29,895 --> 00:48:35,595
And uh, and that's why water is, is
part at the core of every religion.

925
00:48:36,075 --> 00:48:42,015
Uh, and, and, and in, at the heart of
many civilizations, I just was in Morocco.

926
00:48:42,375 --> 00:48:43,904
Morocco, I had no idea.

927
00:48:43,904 --> 00:48:46,274
It's a desert country
where, yeah, think about it.

928
00:48:46,274 --> 00:48:48,734
They've got an Atlantic
coast, but it's mostly desert.

929
00:48:49,245 --> 00:48:55,935
And, uh, they have a, a, a national water
policy, uh, that I, I knew nothing about.

930
00:48:56,234 --> 00:49:01,125
I spent hours in this museum that
was where there was nobody inside.

931
00:49:01,515 --> 00:49:01,605
Mm-hmm.

932
00:49:01,964 --> 00:49:06,645
Looking at really interesting exhibits
from statements in the Koran right

933
00:49:06,645 --> 00:49:11,625
up through the latest minister of,
of, of, of environment and water.

934
00:49:11,970 --> 00:49:16,290
Essentially outlining a revision
to the National Water policy or

935
00:49:16,290 --> 00:49:21,120
Morocco ratifying the, the, the,
the International Ocean Treaty.

936
00:49:21,390 --> 00:49:27,540
Understanding the interrelationship
between freshwater and saltwater.

937
00:49:27,540 --> 00:49:27,600
Yeah.

938
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:33,630
The Ocean begins at the mountaintop and it
ends at the abyssal plane and everything.

939
00:49:33,630 --> 00:49:34,200
In condition.

940
00:49:34,205 --> 00:49:34,835
In, in, in, Yeah.

941
00:49:34,835 --> 00:49:42,390
In, in the inclusive circle
is the, um, uh, uh, there was

942
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:46,110
a, um, uh, God rest his soul.

943
00:49:46,110 --> 00:49:49,020
There was a fellow out in California
named Jay Nichols, so I don't

944
00:49:49,020 --> 00:49:49,860
know if you've ever heard of it.

945
00:49:49,860 --> 00:49:49,950
Yeah.

946
00:49:50,670 --> 00:49:51,000
Jay.

947
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,260
We love, we love Jay.

948
00:49:52,350 --> 00:49:53,190
Well, Jay.

949
00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:54,450
Jay Jay.

950
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:57,450
He's another one of lot of
people spearheading stuff.

951
00:49:57,690 --> 00:49:59,820
I thought Jay was a little this No, no.

952
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,220
Jay had the blue marble.

953
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:02,970
Yep.

954
00:50:02,970 --> 00:50:04,050
And blue marble.

955
00:50:04,050 --> 00:50:06,120
I, um, I, um,

956
00:50:08,435 --> 00:50:08,875
I, um.

957
00:50:10,980 --> 00:50:15,420
I, I went to some of his Blue Mind
con conferences and at one point

958
00:50:15,455 --> 00:50:18,930
I, I knew, I had no idea if he was
sick or whatever, how, how he died.

959
00:50:18,930 --> 00:50:19,710
I still don't know.

960
00:50:20,460 --> 00:50:22,694
Uh, but we became friends and
I would see him occasionally.

961
00:50:22,694 --> 00:50:22,935
Mm-hmm.

962
00:50:23,015 --> 00:50:25,920
And, and I asked him, Jay, this
is the most beautiful thing

963
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,720
in the world, this metaphor.

964
00:50:28,290 --> 00:50:28,470
Yeah.

965
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:32,040
I carried him in my pocket all the time.

966
00:50:32,730 --> 00:50:36,480
And, uh, I've given them to kings and
presidents and I've also given them

967
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,380
to, to accidental meets on the street.

968
00:50:40,770 --> 00:50:40,980
Yeah.

969
00:50:41,609 --> 00:50:44,819
And, and it's a, it's
an unforgettable gift.

970
00:50:44,819 --> 00:50:45,924
And I ask them, mm-hmm can I do this?

971
00:50:47,460 --> 00:50:50,160
May I, may I become an acolyte.

972
00:50:50,460 --> 00:50:51,210
A disciple.

973
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:51,690
Mm-hmm.

974
00:50:51,930 --> 00:50:53,160
And do the blue marble.

975
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:54,660
And he said, of course you can.

976
00:50:54,660 --> 00:50:56,759
That's, that, that,
that, that'd be lovely.

977
00:50:56,970 --> 00:51:00,180
So I have a 500 blue marbles suit.

978
00:51:00,660 --> 00:51:01,259
That's amazing.

979
00:51:01,589 --> 00:51:04,830
I in my pocket all the time
and my wife said, oh my God,

980
00:51:04,830 --> 00:51:05,640
he is got the blue marble.

981
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:06,330
I said, no, no.

982
00:51:07,020 --> 00:51:08,700
This person and it, you know.

983
00:51:09,375 --> 00:51:10,665
I had a heart operation.

984
00:51:11,475 --> 00:51:16,755
I called in the doctor and I said, I
want to give you this as just as a,

985
00:51:16,755 --> 00:51:22,005
as a, a statement of my, my gratitude
for what you have done for me.

986
00:51:22,035 --> 00:51:23,115
'cause it was extremely successful.

987
00:51:23,325 --> 00:51:23,415
Mm-hmm.

988
00:51:24,375 --> 00:51:25,905
And he said, you don't understand.

989
00:51:26,085 --> 00:51:31,995
I moved to Maine and became a cardiology
cardio cardios surgeon in Maine for

990
00:51:31,995 --> 00:51:36,735
a third of what I could earn in, in
New York City or Philadelphia to be by

991
00:51:36,735 --> 00:51:39,075
my, by the Ocean and to have my Yeah.

992
00:51:39,075 --> 00:51:40,695
Children by the Ocean.

993
00:51:41,475 --> 00:51:45,675
And then later I called to
make an appointment and I

994
00:51:45,675 --> 00:51:47,085
said, my name is Peter Neil.

995
00:51:47,085 --> 00:51:51,435
And the receptionist says, and I started
to give her my date of birth and number.

996
00:51:51,885 --> 00:51:52,245
Mm-hmm.

997
00:51:52,251 --> 00:51:54,405
She said, oh no, Mr. Neil,
I, we know who you are.

998
00:51:54,735 --> 00:51:58,185
I said, well, I was only there for a
day and a half and you put your hand

999
00:51:58,185 --> 00:51:59,475
inside my heart, but that's fine.

1000
00:52:00,645 --> 00:52:03,795
But, uh, and she said, uh oh no.

1001
00:52:04,455 --> 00:52:06,315
The doctor called a staff meeting.

1002
00:52:07,095 --> 00:52:11,595
All the nurses, all the auxiliaries,
all the other doctors were there.

1003
00:52:11,895 --> 00:52:18,045
And he held up the blue marble and he
said, we need to remember who these

1004
00:52:18,045 --> 00:52:19,965
people are and what they're doing.

1005
00:52:21,045 --> 00:52:23,805
They're not numbers, they're
not social security numbers,

1006
00:52:23,805 --> 00:52:25,365
they're not policy holders.

1007
00:52:25,395 --> 00:52:25,485
Mm-hmm.

1008
00:52:25,725 --> 00:52:27,765
They're not reimbursement targets.

1009
00:52:28,425 --> 00:52:31,215
They're out there in the
world as human beings.

1010
00:52:31,215 --> 00:52:38,265
And we need to understand that and never
fail to have it inform our purpose.

1011
00:52:39,165 --> 00:52:39,255
Mm-hmm.

1012
00:52:39,495 --> 00:52:42,645
Well, that's what the
world, that's what we are.

1013
00:52:42,645 --> 00:52:43,545
Water planet.

1014
00:52:44,025 --> 00:52:44,235
Yeah.

1015
00:52:44,235 --> 00:52:46,065
We're all, we are water.

1016
00:52:46,485 --> 00:52:50,805
So if we don't understand that
we're part of this whole global,

1017
00:52:50,805 --> 00:52:55,965
national natural system, we're,
we're, we're stupider than we act.

1018
00:52:56,355 --> 00:52:56,475
Mm-hmm.

1019
00:52:56,715 --> 00:52:58,095
And we're acting pretty stupid.

1020
00:52:59,115 --> 00:52:59,540
Um, yeah.

1021
00:53:00,945 --> 00:53:04,215
Well, I mean, you know, it
speak, speaking of which, um.

1022
00:53:05,490 --> 00:53:08,730
You know, cop 30 is happening right
now as we speak, as we're doing this.

1023
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:09,180
Yeah.

1024
00:53:09,180 --> 00:53:13,650
And, and we've seen the, the
previous two, uh, cops 28 and 29

1025
00:53:13,650 --> 00:53:19,560
happen in, uh, countries that,
uh, are mainly about fossil fuel.

1026
00:53:19,770 --> 00:53:20,100
Right.

1027
00:53:20,130 --> 00:53:24,300
Azer, Baan and, and, uh, I
think it was Dubai or, or, or

1028
00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:25,410
somewhere in the Middle East.

1029
00:53:25,980 --> 00:53:29,879
They are, you know, it was mostly
focused on how to continue to,

1030
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:34,080
uh, use fossil fuels and not
necessarily renewable energies.

1031
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,330
We are doing COP 30.

1032
00:53:36,330 --> 00:53:42,120
The last article that I saw out of that
was, uh, a protest that was happening by,

1033
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:48,419
uh, indigenous, uh, people from the Amazon
trying to get their voices heard and tried

1034
00:53:48,419 --> 00:53:52,980
to get on the floor to get their voices
heard as, uh, Gavin Newsom was talking.

1035
00:53:52,980 --> 00:53:56,700
I'm sure he didn't know about this, uh,
at the time, but as he was talking and

1036
00:53:56,700 --> 00:54:00,299
security was taking them out, these, the,
the, the people were trying to get their

1037
00:54:00,299 --> 00:54:05,009
voices heard because their, their homes
are being destroyed for fossil fuels.

1038
00:54:05,339 --> 00:54:08,819
And here is, you know, someone
representing the US talking about

1039
00:54:08,819 --> 00:54:12,960
how we need to continue to do
renewables and, and we, and not.

1040
00:54:13,299 --> 00:54:18,430
No, the, the, the whole venue not allowing
the, the people, the indigenous people to

1041
00:54:18,430 --> 00:54:22,960
speak and to get their voices heard, which
is what Cop 30 is really about, is to, to

1042
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:27,730
speak about climate change and address the
very issues that they're protesting about.

1043
00:54:28,090 --> 00:54:32,350
You know, you've been dealing with this
for a hell of a lot longer than I have.

1044
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:37,120
Um, you know, what are your
thoughts on, on these, these,

1045
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:38,650
these meetings, these cops?

1046
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:44,440
And, and, and where do you think this
needs to go to actually be more effective?

1047
00:54:46,540 --> 00:54:51,580
Oh, I, I've been to
several, uh, earlier, right?

1048
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:57,790
Once, uh, before, um,
uh, uh, uh, before Paris.

1049
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:58,210
Mm-hmm.

1050
00:54:58,450 --> 00:55:04,870
Uh, but, you know, the, the
many Ocean, many of the Ocean

1051
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,990
rural, Ocean congresses, um.

1052
00:55:08,625 --> 00:55:09,645
I have very mixed feelings.

1053
00:55:09,765 --> 00:55:10,365
Mm-hmm.

1054
00:55:10,605 --> 00:55:12,915
I've made, uh, many connections.

1055
00:55:13,605 --> 00:55:20,654
Uh, I've had my spirits lifted often, uh,
I've had my spirits disappointed often,

1056
00:55:21,134 --> 00:55:32,955
um, I, um, I've now stopped going because,
um, it's, it's very expensive and I think

1057
00:55:32,955 --> 00:55:37,544
that I have, the resources that I have
are better spent doing something else.

1058
00:55:38,595 --> 00:55:41,745
Also, there is the price that
you pay by disappointment

1059
00:55:41,745 --> 00:55:43,904
and sadness and frustration.

1060
00:55:44,745 --> 00:55:49,065
Uh, and I say I'd rather take the
energy, limited amount of energy that

1061
00:55:49,065 --> 00:55:53,774
I have and put it towards something
that's optimistic and and possible.

1062
00:55:54,020 --> 00:55:54,299
Mm-hmm.

1063
00:55:54,855 --> 00:56:01,004
Um, and if it takes one little, if
it's another 700 radios, uh, that's,

1064
00:56:01,009 --> 00:56:03,254
that, that will, that will do me fine.

1065
00:56:03,705 --> 00:56:07,544
Um, uh, and there's, there are, there are.

1066
00:56:08,460 --> 00:56:12,900
One of the most horrible things is, uh,
you're, you're in, you're in Lisbon,

1067
00:56:13,500 --> 00:56:18,779
and everybody's had a time, and we all
had workshops and panel discussions

1068
00:56:18,779 --> 00:56:24,720
and keynotes and q and as and coffee
breaks and everybody's tucking.

1069
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:28,859
And then little cards and brochures
are being handed by everybody's

1070
00:56:28,859 --> 00:56:31,440
positioning, uh, and it's over.

1071
00:56:32,609 --> 00:56:37,380
And the, the, you, you can
predict the final declaration.

1072
00:56:37,980 --> 00:56:40,560
Uh, And then they're all saying,
well, I'll see you in Rio next week.

1073
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:40,740
Right.

1074
00:56:40,740 --> 00:56:41,520
We're going to Rio.

1075
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:42,630
Or we, where are we going Now?

1076
00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:45,390
We, where's the next one
we're going to, oh, blah.

1077
00:56:45,390 --> 00:56:46,025
We'll see Inala.

1078
00:56:46,029 --> 00:56:46,740
Mm-hmm.

1079
00:56:47,130 --> 00:56:49,620
And, um, it's, it's a movable circus.

1080
00:56:50,190 --> 00:56:50,400
Mm-hmm.

1081
00:56:50,910 --> 00:56:52,080
It's all the same people.

1082
00:56:52,410 --> 00:56:52,680
Yeah.

1083
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,920
And, and locals are invited in.

1084
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,790
And, you know, the Amazon
people, I mean, that's a big one.

1085
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:00,630
Yeah.

1086
00:57:00,630 --> 00:57:06,510
Those folk, those folks either by
industrial energy and industrial

1087
00:57:06,510 --> 00:57:12,330
agriculture, um, their, not only is their
culture, but their land is being Yeah.

1088
00:57:12,690 --> 00:57:13,110
Destroyed.

1089
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:13,890
Yeah.

1090
00:57:13,985 --> 00:57:20,250
And, um, and, And then in the name
of security, uh, I'm sure that, that

1091
00:57:20,250 --> 00:57:21,990
they were outside the blue zone.

1092
00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:22,140
Mm-hmm.

1093
00:57:22,500 --> 00:57:23,430
And the greens.

1094
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:24,780
Oh, yes.

1095
00:57:24,825 --> 00:57:26,045
You can't like that.

1096
00:57:26,045 --> 00:57:26,245
Yeah.

1097
00:57:26,525 --> 00:57:30,510
I have a hook, which I have 40 name tags.

1098
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:31,350
Yeah.

1099
00:57:31,740 --> 00:57:34,020
Conference registration, IDs.

1100
00:57:34,590 --> 00:57:35,970
And you don't have the id.

1101
00:57:35,970 --> 00:57:37,080
You can't go to the blue.

1102
00:57:37,170 --> 00:57:37,650
Blue.

1103
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:37,800
Yeah.

1104
00:57:38,155 --> 00:57:38,445
Yeah.

1105
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:45,360
Uh, and, um, uh, or no, you can't speak
the, the, it's all been taken care of you.

1106
00:57:45,930 --> 00:57:52,380
And, uh, so, um, uh, and you, you can
hardly, I, I would often go as press and

1107
00:57:52,380 --> 00:57:54,120
you, there's no place to ask a question.

1108
00:57:54,765 --> 00:57:55,035
Right.

1109
00:57:56,025 --> 00:57:57,195
There's no press conference.

1110
00:57:57,195 --> 00:58:01,335
You can't go and actually sit down and
say, well, alright, let's talk about this.

1111
00:58:01,545 --> 00:58:01,634
Mm-hmm.

1112
00:58:01,875 --> 00:58:10,755
And Um, So I, as I said earlier, I
think they have to keep happening.

1113
00:58:11,685 --> 00:58:16,904
I wish, however they would be, um,
they'd open their minds a little bit.

1114
00:58:17,055 --> 00:58:21,884
If you go to the World Water Forum,
they draw the line at the tide line.

1115
00:58:22,154 --> 00:58:30,705
So you may have 300 speakers and the word
Ocean may be mentioned 10 times if that.

1116
00:58:31,665 --> 00:58:35,205
Now that's just bad policy.

1117
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:37,410
Yeah, that's bad science.

1118
00:58:37,725 --> 00:58:37,995
Yeah.

1119
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,800
That's bad sociology.

1120
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:42,600
The climate weeks.

1121
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:44,070
The climate week's, the same thing.

1122
00:58:44,070 --> 00:58:45,690
You barely hear anything about the Ocean.

1123
00:58:45,690 --> 00:58:49,230
You're like, and just at the beginning
of this, of this episode, you mentioned

1124
00:58:49,500 --> 00:58:51,090
the Ocean and climate are synonymous.

1125
00:58:51,090 --> 00:58:51,870
They're the same.

1126
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:54,030
You know, climate is Ocean.

1127
00:58:54,030 --> 00:58:57,255
When you talk about the climate,
it's run function of basically

1128
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:59,670
the circulation of water.

1129
00:58:59,915 --> 00:59:02,520
The, the basically the, the
irrigation of the globe.

1130
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:03,300
Yeah.

1131
00:59:03,300 --> 00:59:08,160
And climate change is simply what we've
either put into effect that or what

1132
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,590
we've taken out of to defect that.

1133
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:11,010
Yeah.

1134
00:59:11,115 --> 00:59:16,530
And, and, uh, uh, and, and, and we're
doing it how many different ways,

1135
00:59:17,250 --> 00:59:21,550
you know, oh, we have to put filters
on the, on the, on the, on the,

1136
00:59:21,550 --> 00:59:24,270
on the, uh, on the exhaust pipes.

1137
00:59:24,270 --> 00:59:26,310
Well, yes, that's, that, that's true.

1138
00:59:26,730 --> 00:59:32,760
But you, you also might need
to take a look at the, uh, uh.

1139
00:59:33,585 --> 00:59:38,835
The, the downstream effect of,
of, of, of industrial waste

1140
00:59:38,835 --> 00:59:40,095
a hundred miles up the river.

1141
00:59:40,095 --> 00:59:40,785
Mm-hmm.

1142
00:59:41,295 --> 00:59:41,385
Mm-hmm.

1143
00:59:41,625 --> 00:59:42,315
And nobody does.

1144
00:59:42,315 --> 00:59:44,025
It's not part of the permanent process.

1145
00:59:44,025 --> 00:59:45,705
It's not part of the insurance coverage.

1146
00:59:45,705 --> 00:59:49,365
It's not part of the, uh, of
the emergency response plan.

1147
00:59:49,725 --> 00:59:57,045
It's not part, the water is not even
costed into the pro forma as to whether

1148
00:59:57,045 --> 00:59:59,685
or not the project is profitable or not.

1149
01:00:00,375 --> 01:00:00,465
Yeah.

1150
01:00:00,465 --> 01:00:05,835
And sold to the investor with a key
element of the financial aspect of

1151
01:00:05,835 --> 01:00:08,145
the thing absent from the equation.

1152
01:00:09,645 --> 01:00:16,305
So investors are actually making a, um,
uh, uh, uh, uh, their investment on a

1153
01:00:16,305 --> 01:00:19,095
false, on a, on a, on on false premises.

1154
01:00:19,545 --> 01:00:19,815
Yeah.

1155
01:00:20,265 --> 01:00:25,015
Uh, and until these kinds of things
change, and these are hard to do.

1156
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,020
But they become more and more reality.

1157
01:00:28,020 --> 01:00:32,250
If, if, if you could say, well, we don't
have to worry about downstream negativity

1158
01:00:32,250 --> 01:00:34,350
or effect because we have insurance.

1159
01:00:35,100 --> 01:00:35,370
Yeah.

1160
01:00:35,610 --> 01:00:40,410
The insurance company says, well, you have
insurance to here, but not downstream.

1161
01:00:40,620 --> 01:00:40,830
Right.

1162
01:00:40,830 --> 01:00:43,650
Not on the, uh, of the, the oyster bed.

1163
01:00:43,655 --> 01:00:44,250
Uh uh.

1164
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:44,520
Right.

1165
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:45,570
40 miles away.

1166
01:00:46,170 --> 01:00:47,730
You don't, there's no insurance for that.

1167
01:00:48,030 --> 01:00:52,650
And then you realize that the insurance
company has actually insured itself

1168
01:00:52,650 --> 01:00:57,420
with reinsurance and the, their,
it's a, it's a house of cards.

1169
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:57,990
Yeah.

1170
01:00:57,990 --> 01:01:03,510
And so you say, well, everybody's figured
it out a way to sort of cover their,

1171
01:01:03,660 --> 01:01:09,510
their little bit of it and try to hold
that together in the case of some.

1172
01:01:10,155 --> 01:01:16,005
Number of pre-visualize disasters,
And then the one that happens is

1173
01:01:16,005 --> 01:01:17,265
the one that's not visualized.

1174
01:01:17,265 --> 01:01:17,355
Mm-hmm.

1175
01:01:17,775 --> 01:01:19,935
And we call it a black swan, no.

1176
01:01:19,965 --> 01:01:20,055
Mm-hmm.

1177
01:01:20,445 --> 01:01:21,615
That's not a black swan?

1178
01:01:21,765 --> 01:01:21,915
No.

1179
01:01:21,915 --> 01:01:24,825
That swan's been out
there the entire time.

1180
01:01:25,035 --> 01:01:26,265
White, by the way.

1181
01:01:26,565 --> 01:01:26,655
Mm-hmm.

1182
01:01:26,895 --> 01:01:30,884
But you just didn't look at it, or
if you saw it, I don't wanna Exactly.

1183
01:01:31,035 --> 01:01:31,695
Exactly.

1184
01:01:32,625 --> 01:01:34,995
So it's it, sorry, go ahead.

1185
01:01:34,995 --> 01:01:35,955
Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

1186
01:01:36,630 --> 01:01:41,485
I, I, uh, I'm venting, but, but Well,
I'll tell you what, I, I, Peter,

1187
01:01:41,485 --> 01:01:44,995
you and I can probably talk about
this, uh, on, on record for, for,

1188
01:01:45,025 --> 01:01:46,885
uh, hours and hours and hours on end.

1189
01:01:47,125 --> 01:01:50,215
I'll end it here, but I would love to
invite you back to talk more about your

1190
01:01:50,215 --> 01:01:55,345
experience and sort of your knowledge
and, and, um, advice for people,

1191
01:01:55,405 --> 01:01:59,935
uh, to take, to take, uh, you know,
as we continue these conversations.

1192
01:01:59,935 --> 01:02:03,355
Because I think, you know, you've
had a lot of experience in education.

1193
01:02:03,355 --> 01:02:06,535
You have a lot of experience in
connection and communication, uh, and,

1194
01:02:06,535 --> 01:02:10,765
and, and putting together programs that
really benefit and connect people of

1195
01:02:10,855 --> 01:02:13,105
wherever they are, uh, to the Ocean.

1196
01:02:13,105 --> 01:02:16,765
And I think it's really beneficial
for us to, you know, en enjoy

1197
01:02:16,765 --> 01:02:19,565
that experience and hearing that
experience and what can be done and,

1198
01:02:19,565 --> 01:02:21,115
and what has been able to be done.

1199
01:02:21,115 --> 01:02:22,945
So I think that's really, uh, important.

1200
01:02:23,185 --> 01:02:26,815
Love to have you back on Peter, and, and,
and love to having you on it already.

1201
01:02:27,385 --> 01:02:28,105
Fun to talk.

1202
01:02:28,300 --> 01:02:28,790
Awesome.

1203
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:29,670
Great.

1204
01:02:29,770 --> 01:02:30,150
See you later.

1205
01:02:30,805 --> 01:02:32,275
You be well hold fast.

1206
01:02:33,145 --> 01:02:33,685
Will do.

1207
01:02:34,545 --> 01:02:36,975
Thank you, Peter, for joining
us on today's episode of the How

1208
01:02:36,975 --> 01:02:38,175
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1209
01:02:38,175 --> 01:02:40,245
It was great to have you on and
I can't wait to have you back.

1210
01:02:40,245 --> 01:02:43,065
'cause when I talk to other podcasters
and I talk to people who've done

1211
01:02:43,065 --> 01:02:45,975
science communication for a long time,
it's just, I feel like it's just easy.

1212
01:02:45,975 --> 01:02:48,015
We're just riffing off each
other and seeing what's going on.

1213
01:02:48,105 --> 01:02:51,645
A lot of times when I plan to have
a guest on, I go through this whole

1214
01:02:51,705 --> 01:02:55,275
exercise, what questions to ask and
what type of storyline do I want to

1215
01:02:55,275 --> 01:02:56,595
put, do the research and everything.

1216
01:02:56,625 --> 01:02:58,215
I've known of Peter for
quite some time too.

1217
01:02:58,215 --> 01:03:00,555
This is the first couple times we've
met this year, but we've been able

1218
01:03:00,555 --> 01:03:02,145
to get along really, really well.

1219
01:03:02,145 --> 01:03:05,265
And I think as both of us have been
involved in science communication for

1220
01:03:05,265 --> 01:03:08,835
a long time, different paths of course,
and we know different people, but it's

1221
01:03:08,835 --> 01:03:10,155
really easy to talk to each other.

1222
01:03:10,155 --> 01:03:12,945
And so the planning of these
types of podcasts is really just

1223
01:03:12,945 --> 01:03:14,685
riffing off of what we have to say.

1224
01:03:14,885 --> 01:03:18,455
At that point in time and it's just
amazing to be able to have someone

1225
01:03:18,455 --> 01:03:21,425
on that can do that and be able
to talk about so many things and

1226
01:03:21,425 --> 01:03:23,375
bring so much value to the podcast.

1227
01:03:23,375 --> 01:03:25,205
So I love what he does.

1228
01:03:25,205 --> 01:03:28,385
I love for you to see what he
does, to hear what he does.

1229
01:03:28,505 --> 01:03:32,915
Go over to the website, the World
Ocean Observatory, and you can check

1230
01:03:32,915 --> 01:03:35,255
it out at world Ocean observatory.org.

1231
01:03:35,255 --> 01:03:37,235
That's world Ocean observatory.org.

1232
01:03:37,295 --> 01:03:39,725
I'll put the link in the show
notes so you can check that out.

1233
01:03:39,785 --> 01:03:42,695
You'll have all of his contact,
all of his resources there and

1234
01:03:42,695 --> 01:03:44,375
also put it up on our website.

1235
01:03:44,375 --> 01:03:47,135
But this is someone that you shouldn't
have been sleeping on for the last

1236
01:03:47,135 --> 01:03:50,255
20 some odd years, but also don't
sleep on him in in the future.

1237
01:03:50,405 --> 01:03:53,435
This is a great organization that's doing
wonderful things and I want you to get

1238
01:03:53,435 --> 01:03:56,585
to know him and we'll have him back on so
you can get to him a little bit more each

1239
01:03:56,585 --> 01:03:58,175
and every time we have him on the podcast.

1240
01:03:58,175 --> 01:04:01,265
So I wanna thank Peter for joining us
and I wanna thank you for listening.

1241
01:04:01,265 --> 01:04:02,615
If you have any questions or comments.

1242
01:04:02,635 --> 01:04:04,585
Leave those comments down below.

1243
01:04:04,585 --> 01:04:06,955
If you're watching this on YouTube, and
if you're watching this on your favorite

1244
01:04:06,955 --> 01:04:11,935
podcast app, apple, Spotify, Amazon
Music, whatever that app that you love

1245
01:04:11,935 --> 01:04:15,775
so much to listen to this podcast on,
please get in touch with me two ways.

1246
01:04:15,775 --> 01:04:19,255
You can go to Instagram and DM
me at how to protect the Ocean

1247
01:04:19,255 --> 01:04:20,965
that's at how to protect the Ocean.

1248
01:04:21,115 --> 01:04:23,965
And of course, if you want to get ahold
of me through my personal email, you

1249
01:04:23,965 --> 01:04:27,805
can go to speak up for blue.com/contact.

1250
01:04:27,805 --> 01:04:30,775
That's speak up for blue.com/contact.

1251
01:04:31,015 --> 01:04:31,765
Fill out the form.

1252
01:04:32,005 --> 01:04:33,145
Can't wait to hear from you.

1253
01:04:33,460 --> 01:04:36,595
I'd love to talk to all of you, each
and every one of you every single time.

1254
01:04:36,985 --> 01:04:38,275
But that's it for today's episode.

1255
01:04:38,275 --> 01:04:40,615
Again, thank you Peter, and
again, thank you for listening.

1256
01:04:40,735 --> 01:04:43,765
This has been another episode of the
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1257
01:04:43,765 --> 01:04:46,315
I'm your host Angela, and from
the true Nord strong and free

1258
01:04:46,765 --> 01:04:48,415
podcasting with a purpose.

1259
01:04:48,535 --> 01:04:49,165
Have a great day.

1260
01:04:49,225 --> 01:04:51,205
We'll talk to you next time
and happy conservation.