Distant water fishing fleets are stripping the ocean bare and the new high seas treaty may be our last chance

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Today we peel back what's happening
on the far edge of Argentina's

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waters in a stretch of the
South Atlantic called Mile 201.

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Here, hundreds of large fishing
vessels converge each year

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plundering squid stocks that are
vital to the ocean ecosystems

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and global food webs all with
almost no regulation or oversight.

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We're gonna talk about why that's
so important on this episode of the

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How to Protect the ocean Podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the ocean Podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, Marine
biologist and science communicator

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here to tell you what's happening
with the ocean, how you can speak up

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for the ocean, and what you can do
to live for a better ocean by taking

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action.

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Today we're gonna be talking about
squid fishing in a section in the

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South Atlantic called Mile 201.

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You're probably wondering what's that 201?

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Stay tuned.

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We're gonna talk about why
that's such an important number.

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Before we do though, I'm gonna
talk to you a little bit about

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what I'm doing this year.

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I'm trying to build a network of
independent podcasts all around

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ocean conservation and wildlife.

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And so to do this, I need your help and I
would love to your support and people have

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actually reached out to me before that
have actually inspired me to start this.

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It's a Patreon with different levels
of membership, and you can just

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support me just to support what I'm
trying to do with the podcast network.

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Or you can support specific podcasts.

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If you go to speak up for
blue.com/patreon, you can

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help me be independent.

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Stay independent.

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And what I like about being independent
is that I don't have to talk about one

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particular organization over another,
or what they're doing over another.

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I can just stay independent,
non-biased, and just focus on the

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science, the policy, the economics.

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And just what you need to know just to
become a better person around the ocean.

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That's really what it comes is,
is be more aware, speak up for the

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ocean, and live for a better ocean.

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That's really what it comes down to.

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I say it every episode as you've
probably already heard me.

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So if you go speak up for
blue.com/patreon, the link

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will be in the show notes.

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I would be really appreciative
if you can support me.

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If you can't, no worries.

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I completely understand.

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You can support me in other ways.

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Follow, subscribe however you
want on whichever platform you

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listen or watch these episodes on.

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So I really do appreciate it.

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So what is Mile 201
and why does it matter?

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So Mile 201 refers to an area on the High
Seas, just beyond Argentina's Exclusive

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Economic Zone, the EEZ, which is roughly
200 nautical miles from the coast.

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Every country has a 200 nautical
mile, kind of radius, I guess, or

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distance from its coast that is theirs.

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They basically manage
what's ever in there.

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So you have the High Seas outside that 200
nautical mile, and you have, inside the

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200 nautical mile the Exclusive Economic
Zone, basically exclusive to that country.

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In this case, Argentina.

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Canada has it as well.

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United States has it.

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The interesting thing I found out on
another podcast, Polar Bears and Flip

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Flops that I co-host with Angelo
Villagomez, is we found out that

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in the Mediterranean, the people
don't recognize the states in there

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because there's so many states.

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I think it's like 23
or something like that.

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They don't recognize the 200 nautical
miles zone because they all overlap.

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And so it'd be very difficult to do that.

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So it's all international waters,
which is an interesting fact.

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So if you do get one thing out of
this, you know that fact is there.

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But essentially like once a squid school
migrates out of the Exclusive Economic

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Zone for Argentina, it enters in a largely
unregulated area known as the High Seas,

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where no single nation could controls the
fishing activity there until recently.

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But anyway, we will talk about
that at the end of this episode.

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But satellite imagery shows that these
fleets that come out from the High

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Seas, so distance fleets or anywhere
else, they're so large that when they

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converge along this line that their
lights are visible from space at night.

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That's how big it is.

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It's like a small city that
converges on that line.

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So because the squid has a one
year lifecycle, so short lifecycle,

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heavy fishing pressure during the
migration seasons that take 'em

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outside of that 200 nautical mile
zone and into the 201 mile zone can

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quickly deplete local populations.

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So if you think about it, you have a
one year life cycle of this squid.

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The squid goes out past the 200
nautical mile boundary to 201.

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It gets scooped up as many as possible.

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There's no regulations, there's no quotas.

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There's no nothing.

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Once it gets outside of that zone.

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And let's be honest, that line
is not like drawn into the water.

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So.

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There are things that happen where some
of these ships can go over the border

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and whatnot if it's not enforced.

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And so you have this short
lifecycle species that gets

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taken as much as possible.

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It's really difficult for
that species to reproduce.

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So if you take out, say 60 to 75% of
that species, then it only has like 40%

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of that species to go and reproduce.

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You'll get a smaller and smaller
population every single time.

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So unregulated fishing in global High
Seas is a huge growing challenge.

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Globally, many squid fisheries lack
strong international management or

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monitoring systems, meaning that,
mining of this resource often goes

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unaccounted for and unrestrained.

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And we could lose a lot of shrimp

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at any point in time, we just never
know, depending on these fisheries and

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these fleets and how much squid they can
carry, which is a lot, let's be honest.

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So who is fishing these areas and how
the effort has changed over time is

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a really big interesting factor here.

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So the vast majority of the vessels
that are operating belong to the

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distance water fleets featuring

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China, with significant participation
from Taiwan and South Korea.

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So a lot of Asian countries that are

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along these lines.

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In the Pacific, it makes sense.

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The China has probably one of
the largest distance fishing

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fleets, so that'll be big.

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Between 2019 and 2024, total
fishing activity in the

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region increased by about 65%.

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Remember when I told you about that I was
probably in that number, driven largely

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by 85% surge in Chinese fishing effort.

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Many of the vessels turn off their
tracking systems when fishing

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outside of national limits, a tactic
known as going dark, which makes

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monitoring even more difficult.

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So think about this, like
everybody has a tracking system.

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They're supposed to have a
tracking system AIS, right?

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And so you're able to see
where these vessels operate.

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There was a study that came out that
like 75% of the fishing fleets around the

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world do not put these on on a regular
basis, or they may not even have it.

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So we have no idea where people are
fishing, how they're fishing, where

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they're supposed to be, where they're
not supposed to be, because it's

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very difficult to track with each GPS
units because they know that if they

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turn it off or they don't use it,

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then it's really easy to kind of sneak in.

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Canada had this problem a number
of years ago with the COD stocks

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like 30 years ago, where I remember
seeing on the news when I was a kid.

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I remember seeing like the
Coast Guard going out and even

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military navy ships were going out

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by that 200 nautical miles zone to
make sure that there, I think it was

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Portuguese and Spanish fleets weren't
coming in, taking and going over our

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border and taking our cod stocks.

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That's a big thing is you're, going
into national waters exclusive

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economic zones and you're fishing.

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That is a big no-no from an
international relationship standpoint.

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So with China that operates the world's
largest distance water fleet, fishing

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fleet, active in oceans, worldwide.

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These fleets supply seafood to markets in
Europe, to North America, to Asia, and

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the lack of regulation in these areas
like Mile 201 creates incentives for

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fishing to expand into the legal gaps.

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You have to be careful with that.

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We don't want that to happen.

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But it's hard to enforce that.

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It's hard to have ships out there at all
times to make sure that they're there.

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Now, if there's a seasonal one,
you have some ships and you have

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some planes flying over to make
sure that they're not in that area,

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certain countries like Indonesia have
taken a much more aggressive approach by

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actually sinking a lot of those ships,
sending a hard message for a lot of the

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ships that if you come in and fish within
our waters, we will sink your boat and

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we will take everything that's on it.

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Obviously we don't wanna see that happen.

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I don't wanna see anybody get hurt
on the High Seas, but Indonesia did

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take that route a number of years ago.

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I don't think they're still doing that.

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I haven't heard reports of that.

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But if anybody knows, let me
know in the comments below.

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I'd love to hear about that because
that's obviously dangerous and

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we don't wanna see that happen.

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Let's talk about squid and what
would happen if it's collapsed.

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So, Argentine shortfin squid, which
is what we're talking about here,

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are not just a fishery resource.

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They are a keystone species
in the southwest Atlantic.

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That means they're serving as a
critical prey item for whales,

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dolphins, seals, seabirds, and
commercially valuable fish like tuna

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and hake.

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Experts warn that removing this prey base
could trigger cascading effects throughout

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the Marine food web impacting species
at multiple levels of the food web.

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We call it trophic levels, multiple
trophic levels of the food web.

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So squid are both predator and prey.

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The linking nutrient and energy
flow along the food web, this

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makes them essential for sustaining
ecosystem health and resilient food

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web because they play both roles.

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Without the adequate management
stocks to regenerate yearly are

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vulnerable to overfishing and collapse.

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This is a big problem.

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It's kind of funny 'cause every time
we talk about fish, we worry about

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if they're sort of a long lived
species, where they, it takes multiple

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years to reach sexual maturity.

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So sometimes 10, 13,
sometimes a lot less.

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We worry about those species because
they're slow growers And so if you

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start taking them out at the highest
level when they're at the adult level,

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older, they're at the biggest level.

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You know, producers will reproduce a
lot of fish, but if you start taking

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those out, then you have smaller
and smaller ones and eventually have

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ones that They're at the size where
they're not reaching or time where

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they're not reaching sexual maturity.

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And so that's why they have a lot of
size restrictions on specific fish.

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But when we talk about quick
growing species, these are too quick.

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So if you take out a generation, that
generation may not come back afterwards,

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and that could be a big problem.

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We should also talk about, you know,
looking at human rights and animal

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welfare concerns when it comes to this.

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So investigations have documented
widespread animal cruelty, including

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the deliberate killing of seals
in significant numbers on deck.

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So they bring 'em on the deck.

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If they're in their, nets and they'll
start to kill 'em on the deck.

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These are seals and sea lions
that are just trying to feed

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on the natural population.

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It is part of their lifecycle.

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It is part of nature.

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But what people don't like are seals
taking their fish, and you can see that

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in almost every fishery around the world.

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They're like, Hey, we
have too many seals here.

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They keep taking our fish, and
they'll try and shoot them.

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They'll try and kill them in
very harmful and cruel ways.

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There are some pretty crazy
scary people out there.

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And not everybody obviously,
but there's a few that will

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treat these animals horribly.

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We don't wanna see that happen on
any front, in any part of the world.

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And also like we have to look
out for the crew members too.

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' cause on some vessels they report this
serious labor abuses such as long hours

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with little rest, physical intimidation,
debt bondage, and wage withholding.

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So basically fishery slaves.

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They can come in all different forms or
they can come in all of those forms and

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it's something we have to stamp out fast.

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But when you have distance fleets and
you're out at sea for like six months

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at a time, you're not coming home.

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This is not an easy job to do.

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It's very dangerous.

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Very dangerous.

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Sometimes you're in eight and 10 foot
Seas, you're still trying to fish.

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You can go overboard very easily.

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You can get crushed by
something very easily.

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Being on a working ship is not
something that is like what we

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think of as being on a yacht.

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The ocean especially the Pacific
ocean and the Southwest Atlantic

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ocean, it can be very scary.

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It could be very, very scary.

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It could be very dangerous.

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So that's something
that we don't wanna see.

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And of course, many of the squid that are
caught into these conditions end up in

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markets in the EU, the UK, North America.

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Meaning consumers may unknowingly
support this harmful practices.

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We don't know if we're actually
supporting these practices.

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Whether it's for squid
or for anything else,

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we don't know.

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Like the calamari you had
at your family restaurant.

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Maybe part of that fishery.

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We have no clue.

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There's no way to track it.

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It's not a very well tracked fishery.

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That needs to be
increased and get better.

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So reports from fisheries around
the world show that High Seas

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fishing can be a vector of labor
abuses when oversight is weak.

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This connects ocean conservation
directly with human rights issues.

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So that's something that
we have to be careful.

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And of course, the animal rights as well.

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Now there are regulations and
there is need for transparency.

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But the fact is that there are currently
no international, I'm gonna say this

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lightly because it's gonna change in
after January 16th or January 20th.

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Agreed cash limits for squid in
the high Seas office, Argentina

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leaving a regulatory vacuum that
distant water fleets exploit.

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So because there's no regulation that
once those squid go over that border.

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Whether they're coming over
the border or not, once they

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go over that border, it's over.

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They can get caught.

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They can catch as many as they want,
and there's nothing that anybody can do.

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Argentina, the Fishers, there's
nothing that they can do about it.

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Argentina's Coast Guard can monitor but
has no enforcement power once the vessels

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move beyond their exclusive economic zone.

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So once they move to Mile
201, they can't do anything.

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If they come in on their exclusive
economic zone, they can do something.

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Other than that, they can't do anything.

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Environmental groups are calling
for binding international rules,

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better transparency through vessel
tracking and import bans on seafood

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tied to illegal or abusive practices.

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So international treaties such
as the port state measures

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agreement exist to prevent illegal
catches from entering a trait.

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So almost like CITES which
is also international.

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The Port state measures agreement
also does this where it says you

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can't import specific fish, but
their catch reach is limited without

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widespread adoption and enforcement.

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So consumer awareness and pressure
on import regulations help

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compliment management efforts.

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00:12:28,580 --> 00:12:29,720
Now here's the thing though.

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We have a new binding agreement
that's starting January 17th, not 16th

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is coming into force January 17th.

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It is called the BBNJ Agreement,
also known as the High Seas Treaty.

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00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:45,949
This is something that is unprecedented,
is part of the UN Convention of the Law

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00:12:45,949 --> 00:12:49,639
of the Sea, UNCLOS, and is designed to
enhance conservation, sustainable use

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of Marine biodiversity in international
waters beyond the nation's jurisdiction,

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which is the Exclusive Economic Zone.

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It reached the required ratification
numbers of 60 in 2025, and will

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enter in force January 17th.

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Probably by the time you listen to
this episode or right around the

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00:13:03,945 --> 00:13:04,980
time this episode is published.

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00:13:05,337 --> 00:13:06,297
Now what can be done?

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Marine protective areas
can be put into place.

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00:13:07,924 --> 00:13:10,054
There's environmental impact
assessments, legislation in

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00:13:10,054 --> 00:13:11,194
there or policies in there.

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00:13:11,194 --> 00:13:13,864
There's cooperation and monitoring
policies in there, and of course

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00:13:13,864 --> 00:13:16,804
there's capacity building and
technology sharing among the

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00:13:16,834 --> 00:13:18,364
countries of signatory countries.

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Not a lot of people.

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00:13:19,310 --> 00:13:21,955
Even though there's 60 nations,
not a lot of people are on this.

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00:13:21,955 --> 00:13:25,285
Not a lot of the nations are on this, but
this will grow as we continue to do this.

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00:13:25,372 --> 00:13:27,262
It's been ratified, so
that's always great.

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00:13:27,365 --> 00:13:29,915
The US hasn't ratified to it
for all my American friends.

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00:13:30,022 --> 00:13:31,462
I don't even know if Canada's ratified.

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00:13:31,462 --> 00:13:34,162
They've agreed to it, but they
haven't ratified it yet as of

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00:13:34,162 --> 00:13:35,842
this recording that I know of.

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00:13:35,945 --> 00:13:39,215
But regardless, this provides at
least some international reflection.

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They could put a Marine protected
area just on the Mile 201 or beyond

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that to say, Hey, internationally,
you're not allowed to fish here.

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I don't know what the enforcement is.

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00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:48,257
I don't know what the repercussions is.

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00:13:48,357 --> 00:13:51,117
The High Seas Treaty is still in
its infancy and probably still

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00:13:51,117 --> 00:13:52,557
needs to be better reinforced

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00:13:53,199 --> 00:13:57,185
in the long term, but at least we can put
in and designate Marine protected areas.

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00:13:57,185 --> 00:13:59,285
It could be paper parks right
at the beginning, but at least

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00:13:59,285 --> 00:14:00,399
we know there's something there.

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00:14:00,509 --> 00:14:03,209
And sometimes when you look at
these international treaties from a

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00:14:03,209 --> 00:14:07,349
policy perspective, sometimes being
embarrassed and being called out for

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00:14:07,349 --> 00:14:09,265
violating like a Marine protected area.

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00:14:09,379 --> 00:14:11,089
These countries don't wanna
be called out like that.

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00:14:11,089 --> 00:14:12,952
So maybe that would be the initial thing.

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00:14:13,062 --> 00:14:15,629
I know it's like a slap on the
wrist and people don't like it.

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00:14:15,715 --> 00:14:18,655
But it's something that's big because
a lot of countries take pride in

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00:14:18,655 --> 00:14:20,245
that, especially countries like China.

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00:14:20,342 --> 00:14:21,392
They don't want to be part of it.

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00:14:21,392 --> 00:14:23,999
They wanted to be part of the
Port State Measures Agreement.

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00:14:24,099 --> 00:14:25,539
That's something that's
very important to them.

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00:14:25,899 --> 00:14:28,605
And so they have to change the
way they manage their distance

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00:14:28,605 --> 00:14:29,785
fishing fleet to do that.

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00:14:29,885 --> 00:14:34,349
So hopefully a High Seas Treaty will also
allow countries that are, many countries

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00:14:34,349 --> 00:14:37,709
do that are fishing in international
waters to ensure that they are following

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00:14:37,709 --> 00:14:39,419
the rules of the High Seas Treaty.

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00:14:39,629 --> 00:14:41,099
So it's still in its infancy.

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00:14:41,099 --> 00:14:42,239
It still has to be done.

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00:14:42,322 --> 00:14:45,232
It still has to be put into force,
but this could be something that

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00:14:45,232 --> 00:14:46,835
could be in the long term of it.

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00:14:46,939 --> 00:14:49,729
Hopefully the fishery lasts that long.

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00:14:49,940 --> 00:14:53,780
But the squid at Mile 201 are a powerful
example of why the ocean governance

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00:14:53,780 --> 00:14:57,977
needs to be stronger, more transparent
and linked to human rights protections.

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00:14:58,087 --> 00:15:01,267
Every consumer policy maker and
coastal community has a role in

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00:15:01,267 --> 00:15:02,647
demanding sustainable management.

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00:15:02,647 --> 00:15:06,907
Before we lose, not just squid, but
the rich and interconnected life

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00:15:06,907 --> 00:15:08,492
that depends on them in the ocean.

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00:15:08,825 --> 00:15:12,065
And I think that's something that's
extremely important when we look at

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00:15:12,065 --> 00:15:13,925
how we manage our oceans in the future.

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00:15:13,925 --> 00:15:16,505
We have the tools and they're still
coming and they're getting better

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00:15:16,505 --> 00:15:18,935
and better, but we need to make sure
that they're enacted and we need to

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00:15:18,935 --> 00:15:21,605
make sure that countries follow them
and the fishing fleets follow them.

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00:15:21,980 --> 00:15:23,240
That's it for today's episode.

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00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,060
I'd love to hear what you think
of this new study that was put in.

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00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:29,744
I'll put the link of the study in the
show notes so you can get the whole paper.

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00:15:29,854 --> 00:15:32,974
But I find like these types of
new research papers that are

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00:15:32,974 --> 00:15:35,434
coming out informative, I'd
love to hear what you think.

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00:15:35,537 --> 00:15:37,937
So let me know in the comments below
if you're watching this on YouTube.

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00:15:37,937 --> 00:15:39,647
And if you're watching
this or listening to this

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00:15:39,647 --> 00:15:43,277
on your favorite podcast app or if you're
listening to a clip on social media, you

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00:15:43,277 --> 00:15:46,847
can go to speak up for blue.com/feedback.

360
00:15:46,847 --> 00:15:48,557
Let me know what you think there.

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00:15:48,614 --> 00:15:49,514
We'll have a conversation.

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00:15:49,514 --> 00:15:52,154
You can delete a voicemail or
write it down, like type it in.

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00:15:52,260 --> 00:15:53,160
That'd be great too.

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00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,120
So any type of way of engaging because
this is the start of a conversation that

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00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,780
I would like to continue with you, so
let me know what you think on any of

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00:16:00,780 --> 00:16:03,090
these different platforms that we are on.

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00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,630
Thank you so much for joining
me on this episode of the How

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00:16:05,630 --> 00:16:06,770
to Protect the ocean Podcast.

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00:16:06,770 --> 00:16:10,250
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the
True Nord Strong and free here in Canada.

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00:16:10,250 --> 00:16:11,630
Thank you so much for joining me.

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00:16:11,780 --> 00:16:12,470
Have a great day.

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00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:14,690
We'll talk to you next time
and happy conservation.