Cook Inlet Offshore Oil Drilling: Why Alaskans Are Questioning Another Generation of Fossil Fuels

0:00 What if the next US offshore oil and gas lease isn't happening in some distant Ocean you've never heard of, but in waters that feed families support salmon runs and are home to one of the most endangered whale populations in North America. Today's conversation takes us to Cook Inlet Alaska. Where decisions being made right now could lock communities into another generation of fossil fuel dependence, or finally open the door to a different future. We're gonna talk about this on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Let's start the show. Hey everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, Marine biologist and science communicator here to tell you what's happening in the Ocean, how you can speak up for the Ocean, and what you can do to live for a better Ocean by taking action.

0:48 And this is another interview in a series of interviews that I've done for the us. Oil and gas lease plan, a five year lease plan that was put out just before the holiday season so that a lot of people couldn't publicly comment. The public comment period is still open till January 23rd. This is gonna be released sort of on the Monday before that, And so I want you to get an idea of how people in Cook Inland and in Alaska. Feel about this oil lease plan and what you're gonna find out is very, very surprising. 'cause we have Jamie Curry, who's the communications director of Cook Inlet Keeper, and we have Lauren Barrett, who's the co-executive director of the Inlet Keeper. They're part of an organization that has spent decades defending Cook Island watershed from pollution, climate impacts, and unchecked industrial expansion.

1:37 So in this conversation, we unpack the US offshore oil and gas leasing plan, the five year plan, and what that actually means for Alaskans who live, who fish and race families along these waters. We talk about how the oil and gas industry has shaped Alaska's economy, politics, and public expectations in the past, and why that history still influences how people feel about drilling today. So most importantly, we explore a question that often gets lost in the national energy debates. Do the people most affected buy offshore drilling? Actually support expanding it into the future. And are they asking for something different altogether? This episode is about power, it's about legacy, and who gets to decide the future of Alaska's Ocean.

2:22 And I want to reiterate the importance of what this is going to mean for coastal people across the us. Not just Cook Inlet, but even just specifically for Cook Inlet. 'cause there's a website that they have up, and I'm gonna link to it. Speak up for blue.com/inlet. Keep it's in the show notes. It's very important that you go see this. There is an image in the timeline that they talk about what's been happening. That is so. Impactful to me because it looks at how the leases are going to be expanded or are going to be put and where they're located in Cook Inland. And if you haven't seen like what this looks like, it's basically it's got a mouth to the Ocean And then it's got this sort of like track that goes into as an inland, basically there's land on one side and land on the other side, like the major mainland on the other side.

3:09 And it goes all the way in quite a distance. A number of kilometers in where they want. These leases are right in the mouth of the inlet where people live like Homer, where is home of the headquarters of Inlet Keeper. They actually live there. So what they're gonna see right now, what they see without these leasing plans are without these platforms. They look out their windows and they see beautiful like mountains and volcanoes and a beautiful skyline with the Ocean in front of it. And they just see beauty wildlife as you've never seen before. They get to see it each and every day. It's why people who visit just like Lauren Barrett did, and just like Jamie Curry did. Why they visit and why they love it so much. Why they actually moved there and stayed there and are raising their kids there.

3:52 That's how important it's, and what this plan wants to do is lease out areas where oil platforms will take away that view will take away that skyline will impact the environment to no end. If there is an oil spill and there will be an oil spill, I want you to listen to this interview because it's really important and how the oil and gas industry is not really benefiting the local community of Cook Inlet. That's really, it really comes down to. So here's the interview with Lauren Barrett and Jamie Curry from Inlet Keeper on Cook Inlet. Enjoy the interview and we'll talk to you after. Hey Lauren. Hey Jamie. Welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Are you ready to talk about Alaska's nature as well as the US oil and gas leasing plan that just came out about a month ago?

4:37 Oh yeah. Very excited to be here. Right. All definitely. This is gonna be fun. I am super excited because this is, uh, sort of the, not necessarily the last episode, but the last interview I'm doing, uh, before the public comment, uh, kind of shuts down for this US oil and gas leasing plan, uh, across the US where we're looking at, you know, one point, I believe it's 1.4 billion acres that it is pretty much opened up for leasing and the public common period is here. So we're, we're trying to do for this audience is to give you as much information as possible from different parts of the US that may or may not be affected by this leasing plan and sort of the history that they've had with the oil and gas industry, and also just.

5:20 Talking about the nature, 'cause I'm excited. We don't, Lauren and Jamie, we don't have a lot of Alaska people here, like people that live in Alaska. And although we've seen the beautiful pictures and the beautiful videos that people put up and all this kinda stuff, and we know we wanna get to know a little bit more about Alaska and what it's like to live there and the beautiful nature that's, that's about this. So we're gonna talk a lot about different things, but before we do, um, I'd love to get to know you guys a little bit more so the audience can get to know you Um, So let's start you with you, Lauren. Why don't you let know who you are and what you do. Uh, hi. I am Lauren Barrett. I am the co-executive director here at Cook and l Keeper in Homer, Alaska on the traditional lands with the Danina people. Um, yeah, so I help run this organization.

6:01 I helped do a lot of the fundraising here. Um, And then in my spare time I am mom to two little girls. So I am out enjoying the Ocean and trying to keep them from eating. It's too strange of kelp and, you know, enjoying the, as kids too. Living as kids too. So, um, yeah, super excited to talk about Alaska and all the wonders that there are here. That's awesome. I'm gonna have questions about your kids. I have two girls as well. They're teenagers, but I, so I could ask questions about that as well. Uh, Jamie, how about yourself? Yeah. Uh, hi, I'm Jamie. I am the communications director for Cook Inlet Keeper. Um, and, uh, yeah, when I'm not, uh, running communications for the organization, I, uh, dabble as well.

6:43 I'm a, I'm a filmmaker and science communicator, so I, I do, I shoot documentary films and yeah, I like to spend a lot of time. Running around outside with my camera, uh, looking for, looking for wildlife, and, uh, yeah, just beautiful things, which I have a fair, a fair amount to choose from here. So I was about to say, you picked a pretty good place to, to do these types of, of documentaries and, and, and content, I guess is what, you know, what it is now, right? Not only documentary filmmaking, but, but content as a lot of people are doing. Look, both of you have, uh, titles and qualities that, uh, I love to talk about. So I'm super, super excited to, to talk about and get to know you a little bit more. Lauren, uh, how old are your girls?

7:24 Because I had two, I had two little girls at one point and I fell in love with being a girl, dad, and, uh, so I'd love to know more about you, two little girls. How old are they? Um, So I have a three and a 6-year-old. Oh, nice. So three years apart. Are they close? Like do they hang out with each other quite a bit? Yes. Get along. They're, they're best friends, except for when they are not, but most of the time they're best friends. I'll tell you, that doesn't stop. Just as if they're anything. My are two and a half, two and a half years, almost two years apart. And, uh, yeah, they're 18 and 16 now, so it's, uh, it's a different, but I've loved every stage. It's, it's a lot of fun. So, uh, but they get to grow up in this beautiful place like this. Yeah. You know, cook and lit, you know, you're, you're in and around, uh, a wonderful place with beautiful nature.

8:08 Uh, pretty much dominated by nature. It's not as developed as a lot of the other cities or places in, in the us and obviously it's, it's, um. I, I, I would say it's, it's dominated by cold weather really, and, and dark and light times depending on the, on the time of the year. It's a very, uh, I guess like a extreme, more extreme type of weather and type of environment to, to live in. Now, both of you didn't grow up in Alaska, but you both have lived there for six years. Uh, so we'll start with you Lauren. What brought you up here and really made you fall in love with, with the pla like with Alaska itself? Yeah, so I mean, really actually my girls are probably what brought me up here.

8:48 I was born down in the Florida Keys Um, so I've always loved living by the coast. But then most of my, um, adult life have lived in landlocked. I was in Montana for a long time. Um, I did the Peace Corps down in Guyana. Cool. Um, kind of traveled around for a lot. And after we got pregnant with my first daughter, my husband and I, who was a guiding in Yellowstone at the time, um, we were both like, we really. Wildlife and wild places are a thing that we really value and we want our girls to grow up, um, with access to a really wild place. And so we kind of on a whim came up and, um, it was his first time coming here and I convinced him and we, uh, found a little cabin and moved out here and haven't looked back.

9:30 It's been a really, really special place to raise my kids and a really like wonderful tie in now to work here and be able to really protect this place so that they continue to have this growing up. So yeah, they're often in the office with me. They think they're little cooking look keepers and um, they yell at people on the beach for littering. So it's wonderful. I love it. I love it. Now, how hard was it? For your husband to leave, uh, being a park ranger at Yellowstone Iconic National Park, I know us has a number of national parks and they're all beautiful, but, you know, Yellowstone's a pretty iconic thing. I'm sure it was a dream of him. Was that a difficult decision for him to, to make Yeah. Yeah, he was a wildlife guy. Um, So lots of options.

10:11 I'm sorry, wildlife for that up here. Yeah. Um, and as much as we love Yellowstone and we love the prairies and we love the bison, um, it was really neat to get to come up here and learn. I mean, it's really a whole learning about the coast and learning about the Ocean is a whole new experience. And so it's been really wonderful for both of us. It's Oh good. It's never a dull moment. That's awesome. That's awesome. Uh, now Jamie, how about yourself? You know, you came up here, I believe for a master's degree in Marine biology at Fairbanks. Uh, talk a little bit about that and what made you wanna stay in such a, a different environment? Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, I, I, I grew up in Maine, so also kind of from, you know, uh, I guess a slightly chillier environment, at least Yeah.

10:55 Yeah. Um, they're not quite Alaska level, but still chilly. Uh, and yeah, you know, I, I moved up here in 2020, um, 'cause I, I landed a position, uh, to do a master's degree and do a, a master's thesis, uh, looking at Ocean acidification and, uh, sort of climate change impacts in the Kmac Bay area. So right outside of, right outside of our door, basically. Right. Um, and yeah, I, I came up here for that and I was doing. Just had like, just crazy adventures throughout graduate school and was doing a lot of diving and Yeah. Ran into, ran into crazy stuff like, you know, stellar sea lions underwater and like, just had a phenomenal experience and Right.

11:42 You know, totally fell in love with, with this place and just never wanted to leave. And I think that, so I work as a, i I do a lot of like filmmaking and Right. And science communication and, and photography, that kind of thing. And I think the, the thing that's just that I love so much about this place is that it's so easy to kind of show other people and to, to capture it and sort of bring it, bring it to, to others. And that's, you know, it is just a, it's a privilege to live in this place. And I think the thing that drives, one of the things that drives me is wanting to share that, you know? Yeah. I love, I love that. Uh, I'll start with you, Jamie. Like what was the most surprising thing for you?

12:24 When you moved up here, good or bad, that you didn't expect when you first moved up here. I'll ask the same thing for Lawrence. We'll give Lauren A. Little time to think about that. But like, what was, like, what was the thing where you're like, oh, I did not expect this. You know? Yeah. I think what I, I think that, I mean, there was a, there was a bunch of stuff. I think, um, I think I, I didn't expect that a large portion of the population doesn't have running water. Um. That was a, that was a surprise because it takes a lot of energy to heat pipes to keep the pipes thawed out here. That's true. So a lot of people live, uh, live in sort of the dry cabin lifestyle.

13:04 My, uh, a lot of, I had a lot of friends who did that in graduate school, and that was obviously a bit of a new experience, but, you know, it's really easy to kind of figure it out and, and have a great time doing it, uh, once you've, once you've done it for a little bit. But it, that was interesting. And I think the other thing that just amazed me was the size of the place. Um, 'cause I knew Alaska was big, but I did my master's degree, so I did all my classwork, my coursework up in Fairbanks and all of my research down here in Homer. Um, and it is pretty much a straight shot from one to the other. And it's a 12 hour drive and that covers like, I don't know, a third of the state, quarter of the state.

13:44 Yeah. And, you know, it's just, there's, and there's so much of it that doesn't have roads on it. It's just, you know, it's, it's just wild. Yeah. Um, and that was, I mean, I knew that on paper mm-hmm. Coming here, but it's quite, it's one thing to kind of know that in theory and it's, it's, it's a very different thing to kind of experience that. Oh, yeah. Uh, in, in person. Absolutely. Absolutely. How about yourself, Lauren? Like, what was the most surprising thing for you, your husband? Like, your family? Like, what was the thing that you're like, oh, I didn't expect that. Yeah, that's a hard question. Um, Alaska is so unique. I think probably initially, um, the road system, I would say, like you mentioned, I think before when we were chatting, we're at the end of the road.

14:30 I live, uh, 15 miles outside of Homer. So I'm, there's three miles a road after me, And then you're done. Um, which I love. I get to see, I can see three glaciers from my living room window. Um, it's pretty magical. But I'm used to having tons of like, public access roads and public access cabins, really easily available in Montana. And so, um, just figuring out like how to get out and engage with nature has been really different here. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's kind of a steep learning curve, but what I love about it is like you kind of have to dig into the community because as soon as you start building up in the community, suddenly folks are taking you out and showing you where the trails are and showing you and taking you there, you on their boats across the bay.

15:10 Yeah. And then, um, kind of a whole world will open up to you, but you really can't, uh, be like the individual rugged explorer out here. You really need community to be able to get out, which is gotcha. Which is great. I think I like it about that. It's phenomenal. Um, how did, uh, Jamie, you kind of mentioned how you, you know, what led you to Inlet Keeper in a, in a way, 'cause you did a lot of your work at, in Homer, um, when you did your masters, uh, you obviously you're, you love communications, you love filmmaking, uh, things like that. How did you end up like, you know, working for, for Inland Keeper or discovering and did you do work with your masters with them? Did you use some of their resources or like, how did it all come about, I guess is the question?

15:55 It, yeah, you know, it, it was kind of a, it was kind of a weird, uh, a weird sort of, uh, chain of events because I, um, was. So I had not actually encountered Inlet keeper other than I'd seen the bumper stickers and the, the logo, which, uh, I'm wearing on my Yes, I see, uh, sweatshirt today. I'd seen that before, but I hadn't seen anything else of theirs. But I'd been working in and out of the Homer area for a couple of years and, um, I had gotten a fellowship after my, after my master's degree ended, um, working for Noah Fisheries. And, you know, I was not totally sure what my career would be doing and, you know, was, I'd spent a couple of years trying to figure, figure out, you know, what I'd liked.

16:38 I knew I wanted to do, like bring in sort of my filmmaking background 'cause I have a undergraduate degree in that. And, you know, I wanted to do documentaries. I was making 'em for Noah, but it was like a fellowship. And then, um. Yeah, I, I, uh, saw this opening at Inlet Keeper right around the same time as all the Doge cuts were happening, um, at, at Noah, and I was like, wow, this is, I mean, this is exactly where I wanna be doing the kind of work that I wanna be doing. Yeah. You know, that actually allows me to, you know, have an opinion and also, uh, and also to, you know, to, to, to go to this amazing place and, uh, and do good work for, for the environment out here.

17:21 So I was just like, heck yeah. Um, yeah. And so that's, yeah, so I, I applied and am still amazed that I got it. Um, but it's, it's awesome every day. Yeah. Well, I can see why you got it. Just from talking, from talking to you. It makes, it makes sense. I'm sure Lauren feels the same, the same way. Lauren, you know, you mentioned before your co-executive director. How did all that come to be? Uh, pretty, pretty, uh, big role, you know, uh, you know, I know it's a, you know, people are like, well, it could be like a smaller organization, but you probably have a lot on your plate as an organization in general, how did, uh, this, this role come up for you and, and what, like what led you to, to get a role like this?

18:05 Yeah. Uh, kind of roundabout, honestly, my undergraduate work was an environmental studies, um, and creative writing. Um, And then I graduated and had no idea what I wanted to do. So I joined the Peace Corps, um, yeah, with the intention of working in environ. They have an environmental program, um, but ended up doing education actually, And so. I really loved doing that work and doing the community building aspect of that work. So I came back and got a master's in international development and social change. Mm-hmm. Um, and I was kind of moving like more and more away from the environmental stuff and, but it also has like such a deep seed in my heart. You know, my dad is a fly fishing guide. He's always been very involved in like bonefish tarp and trust and the work they do down there.

18:48 And so it's always, it's always been in the vernacular of my family. Um, and when I came here I kind of worked a few different nonprofit jobs. Um, I have a lot of experience with nonprofit management And so I've always had my eye, like before I moved to Homer, I had my eye on Cook and lake keeper. Um, and when this role became available, I'd been here about five, well, four years. Yeah. Um, and it just felt like, it felt like the perfect combination of all of my skills and, um, sounds like it. Yeah. I've, I've. You know, having two young kids, if I'm gonna work, I wanna be doing something where I feel like I'm really like putting my heart and soul into it. And so, um, being able to do this has been like the perfect marriage of all of the different pieces of my life.

19:32 Absolutely. For my own selfishness. How did you get the nonprofit experience? Were you just working in the nonprofit industry or did you go back to school or did you learn it in your master's? Like how did that work? Yeah, so, um, part of my master's has like an element of like grant writing and administration. And then I very randomly, um, because of work I'd done as like a volunteer when we were in Gardner, Montana, um, kind of stepped into the role of executive director. It's a very small town, it's like 300 folks. Okay. Um, And so, but that was a great experience. I got to learn how to run a business. Um, and I worked really closely with the National Park Service 'cause we're right on the border. Mm-hmm. Um, so I learned a lot during that job.

20:12 And then moving here, I was the development director at our, uh, local NPR station. Oh, cool. So, yeah, I've gotten to dabble in a lot of different nonprofit structures. Yeah. Oh, very, very cool. Very cool. That was, you know, speaking of Inlet Keeper, can you, uh, Lauren, can you just talk about sort of the mission and, and what you, what Inlet Keeper does in and around the inlet and, and, and sort of the overall mission? Yeah, so our mission is to protect the cooking lit water watershed and all the life it sustains. Um, pretty broad mission, but we've met for 30 years now. Um, it's, we do a lot of different things. We always talk about, um, having this really unique mix of science, outreach and advocacy, And so those are kind of our three branches.

20:58 Um, And so we try really hard to have this great balance of like stopping the bad and building the good. Mm-hmm. So, um, you know, we, it's very easy, especially in like the year 2026, um, to be really focused on that, stopping the bad, but we also want this element of building up our communities and making sure that they're. Um, able to thrive long term. So we do a lot of, a lot of our capacity goes to like watershed wide campaigns where we're mobilizing folks like the five year plan, um, on actions they can take to protect their lands and waters. Um, really holding corporations and industry accountable. We do a lot of work, um, on like mining campaigns right now. In particular, a lot of work with oil and gas.

21:39 And then the other part of our work is a lot of stuff on, um, more like community building and a lot of climate change. So I don't know if you're familiar with the project draw down. Um, we've done some really similar models to that. So we've done really cool programs like helping to remove barriers to installing solar panels and improving local waste streams. And, um, working with the city for non-motorized transport. Um, we've got a really neat one in Soldotna, which is our office just up the road from us, um, where they're taking volunteers out and mapping an aima streams, um, and helping to put those on the conservation maps. So. It really spans what we do. Uh, yeah.

22:19 It seems like, like, well, I mean, but that's what it, what it goes for when you're managing a watershed, because it's not just oceans, it's fresh water, it's land, it's, it's pretty much everything that encapsulate that, that watershed. 'cause it all affects everything. Everything affects everything. When it, when it comes down to it. I love how, you know, you, you're not just attacking or protecting from the bad, but you're building up the good. And I think, you know, I think that's where conservation has gone more. I think we still have a lot of work to do, but I feel like that seems to be the motion in terms of doing a community building and, and making resilient communities or, or help building resilient communities.

23:02 Um, now obviously, you know, cook Inlet and the communities around it. Probably a very unique, uh, characteristics of communities, indigenous, non-indigenous, uh, people, um, living together. Uh, are there any territorial lands a along the, the, the Cook Inlet as well? This is, I mean, yeah, so I, I would say that um, there are, so, there are lands that are, uh, that are historically, uh, that are historically, uh, different tribal territories in the area. Okay. So, um, you know, this is the ancestral home of the Danina, uh, the Supak and the Ellu people of Alaska's South Central region.

23:47 Um, and I mean, it currently holds two thirds of Alaska's population is sort of this, this south central area of Alaska, um, which Cook inlet. It comprises a, a good portion of, so it is, uh, you know, historically, uh, it, it has, uh, had a variety of, um, uh, of traditional peoples out here that have been living in this place since time immemorial. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, you know, there, there's still, you know, there's, in terms of, I would say in terms of, um, tribal lands specifically mm-hmm. Some tribes like, have, uh, have areas that are, that are owned by like tribal corporations Gotcha.

24:32 Out here, that sort of thing. Okay. Um, but yeah, it's more, I would say from a, a broad stroke standpoint, I would, I think of it as more, um, the, the total, the, the totality of the land and waters are all originally, uh, tr are all traditional homelands of, uh, one or more peoples out here. Gotcha. Interesting. Yeah. Alaska has a really unique, which I'm not even gonna pretend to. Uh, no. Well enough. Right. But it has a really unique, um, division because of Ilca. So there's, um, native corporations Okay. Which is really different than the rest of the lower 48. So we do have a lot of tribal partners that we work with. Like across the bay from us, we have Dan Wallock, Alvia, uh, port Graham, just up the road we have Nilch and Keni and Soff Um, So we work really closely with all of those guys.

25:19 We have really longstanding partnerships with. That's so cool. And it must like working with those, those types of partners and having those partnerships, especially with like in the way in indigenous people have traditionally lived on land and the way they care for that land. Has it influenced the way Cook Inlet looks at its programs and manages its programs in terms of using some of, like using those, you know, those I guess thought processes or even, uh, conservation values in, in the way you do your work? Go ahead Lauren. Go ahead Lauren. Just say both of us, both of us went to see absolute, both of us went to say absolutely on that. Yeah.

25:59 But Lauren, if you wanna go, go ahead Lauren, if you wanted. Um, no, I would say absolutely. I would say like any environmental organization, there's always more to learn. Um mm-hmm. And so it's something that we make a really concerted effort to be constantly, constantly learning and Yeah. Um, being really cognizant of and having conversations where we're getting that feedback. So, yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. And, and I would just add that, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the, the sort of foci, foci of our, a lot of the things that our organization focus on are, you know. I in some way related to, to resources that are traditionally very, very important.

26:39 Um, So one of the things, another of the many things that surprised me about Alaska when I came out here was the amount of subsistence harvesting that happens, um, out here year to year. And that's, you know, so it's people who are going out and either foraging or hunting or fishing for, for some much or almost all of their food sources. So, um, a lot of, so there are a lot of Alaska native villages up here that pursue a, a majority subsistence lifestyle. Um, and it's, you know, millennia old and it's can supply up to 90% of the villagers diet. So we're talking, you know, going out and foraging for blueberries when it's blueberry season and, you know, there's, there's.

27:24 There's a, a panoply of different berries and mushrooms, And then there's hunting. And then of course we have our massive annual salmon runs every year. Yeah. Um, which, And so we are, and what's what's actually amazing is that we, you can kind of experience this, um, in any sort of context. So one of my favorite things to do is to go out and go berry foraging during the, during the, the late summer. Um, yeah. And you can't, that was a new thing for me because it the sort of that a abundance. Of sort of the, uh, of sort of the, the, the resources out here. The, the fact that you can kind of just wander into the hills and find enough blueberries just for yourself to fill, you know, a couple of gallons to, to have to have through the winter or more if you're, if you want, but you know, or if you need, I should say, um, and you can just go out or you could go out during the late summer and actually fish.

28:19 Um, and I am not by any means an expert fisherman. And I went out with my fiance at the time who, uh, she also is t an expert fisherwoman, and it was the, the sockeye were running up the Kenai River and she whomped about five fish out of the water in about 45 minutes. It was so fast that I couldn't actually do any fishing because I had to keep rushing up to her with a net to try to, to try to catch the thing. Um, and she's, you know, and it's, it's that level of abundance. That is up here still. Um, that is, you know, so crucial to, to many, to many of the traditions and lifestyles and livelihoods up here.

29:04 Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's one of the major things that I think Inlet Keeper focuses on, um, protecting and making sure that it, it is present for future generations. I think that's so interesting because like when I think of, you know, salmon runs, I don't think of it as being plentiful. You know, like when you, because you know, you hear the, you know, in BC especially like British Columbia especially, you hear like the ups and downs that they have. It's nice to hear that you can go out and just catch it. And this is not. The only time I heard, as I mentioned before, we, we started the interview, I worked up in the Beaufort in on the Canadian side. And you know, speaking to, uh, the Inuits there they were, they were saying, yeah, we can go out and get Arctic char like that. Like we can get five in like a half hour. And you're just like, it's like, how does that, and like massive ones too.

29:47 And you're just like, how, how does that happen? Like, that's amazing. And they're like, yeah, there is stuff here and it's, and it's great to do that, but we wanna keep it that way and we wanna make sure that it's stays balanced. Yeah. Jamie, go ahead. Yeah. And I would, I, yeah, I would definitely, uh, put in a, put in a caveat that our seminar are not from a historical standpoint doing well, I would say. Right, of course. Understood. Um, that is, we're, we're way below where we ought to be right now. Right, right. Um, and this is at, this is at sort of us at, at low ebb and things are looking a bit concerning. Right. But, um, you know, it, it is. I, I would say that this is one of the last places on earth where you can do that. Gotcha. And one of the privileges of living up here is that it offers you a window into what the rest of, at least North America used to be like.

30:33 Mm. Um, because this level of abundance ecologically used to be present throughout North America and it's not anymore. And it's easy to lose sight of that, you know, across generations. As we, as you know, as time has gone on, people are like, oh, well it's, you know, it's normal that it's, it's very difficult to, or impossible for us to catch fish and salmon don't run up here and, you know, we can't find a ton of berries out in the wild. That's just not how, how it is out here. But it used to be Right. Right. So that makes, yeah, it's all about the frame of reference too, right? Mm-hmm. When, when you were there, um, that's, that's really interesting. You know, you talked about challenges of, of the salmon run and how that's not what it used to be.

31:16 Lauren, what are some of the, like, some of the major challenges that, that the inlet keeper faces or helps with in, in terms of their, their programs? Yeah, it changes. Um, and this year in particular, it's, it's changing quite rapidly. Um, oil and gas from the very beginning has been one that we've always stayed engaged on. Mm-hmm. Um, we're really the only group in Cook Inlet that's working on that. So, um, we tend to lead the charge there. Um, I mentioned that we're doing a lot of work on, um, mining projects. There's several really big ones that are also getting fast tracked under this administration. Um, there's one across the bay from us in Lake Clark National Park, actually on a private land holding there. That's a gold mine.

31:56 Um, that would be just. It would be the death. The death. Now for the, um, critically endangered cooking, let beluga whale. So we're doing a lot of work there on trying to, um, make sure that the newest science is actually getting in front of decision makers and that they're aware of what they're, what they're allowing to happen. Um, there's the Donlin Mine, which is up on the SCA Quim, which is another giant, um, salmon tributary and a really important cultural and, um, ecological source for our tribes up there. And that's another gold mine. And so a lot of these mines, um, they're these big extractive industries that are mm-hmm. Coming in and purporting like, oh, we're gonna put something here. There's nothing here. And like Jamie was saying, there is a lot here.

32:38 Um, yeah, it's abundant. There's, and these are things that we rely on. So, um, we do a lot of watch dogging for that. Um, and I'm losing myself in your question, but yeah, so those are come some of the big ones that we're working on. Pebble Mine is one that I'm sure. Um, many of your listeners have heard about. That's, um, one that we've worked on from the very beginning And then our science work kind of helps bridge the gap with all of that. So we actually just finished up, um, our long-term science director just retired and she was amazing and created this 20 year long data set on stream temperature monitoring, um, that she really piloted And then helped, um, spread out across the state. So we have this amazing data set that's telling us where is the cold water ugia, what areas do we really need to focus our conservation efforts on?

33:25 Um, where do we need to be really concerned? What's impacting our salmon? Wow. Um, and yeah, and we use salmon. We we're gonna talk about salmon a lot. Salmon a lot. Yeah. Understood. 'cause it's, it's absolutely like the central figure of Alaskan life and it also is a really great indicator for everything else. So, you know, if your salmon are affected, your beluga are affected. If your salmon are affected, it's probably your badar affected. If your salmon are affected, your bears are unhappy. Um, yeah, we're gonna talk about salmon. Salmon is a really great guiding, it's that indicator species, right? Yeah. Indicator keystone species, Yeah. Yeah. Um, and talking point, you know, it's really by person. Yeah. Everybody up here eat salmon fishes for salmon.

34:06 Depends on salmon. Yeah. Across board. What's interesting, like when I worked as a Marine mammal observer there, you know, there was obviously, like in the US it seems like there was a lot more, there were a lot more regulations, uh, you know, with the Marine Male Protection Act, you know, And so that, like, you couldn't, the, the rules apply to not only whales about noise when they do seismic surveys, but also to seals and sea lines and, And so forth. In Canada, it was just whales that we had to, to look after. Um. Now with, with mines, I've, I worked as an environmental consultant in Canada with mines and, and, and sort of the discharges into rivers. And we used to have like the, the metal mining, reg effluent regulations.

34:47 So there was like a very stringent rule that every mine had to abide by and they had to make sure that they weren't affecting the reference sites or the, the, the downstream sites compared to the reference sites. And we looked at a bunch of different, different indicators. Uh, obviously, you know, the Marine Male Protection Act very, very, uh, important. Uh, I know it's under threat right now and we can probably do an entire episode just on that, but with, with all the minds that you mentioned, it seems like that's a, a big topic in, in your area, are there regulations surrounding effluent? So the, the discharge from, from metal mining, um, and, and other things that you can use as sort of like an indicator of how the established mines are affecting.

35:28 Uh, the rivers and what new mines need to look out for or what compared to what old mines may have gotten away with in the past. And Jamie, I'll let you, or or whoever would like to answer that, but I'm not sure the answer for that one. You would have to pull in like our program expert. I, the one specifically that I'm referring to the whales on, um, our biggest concern, immediate concern, is they would need a deep sea port. Um, a lot of, a lot of Alaska, like, just because it's not developed for industry, a lot of the concerns are just like these road systems that have to be put in. Um Sure. Or the ports that have to be put in even to begin to develop these things.

36:10 Um, and in putting those in, you're going across really critical migration pathways. Um, tons of ous streams. Yeah. And the deep sea port in this case would be going into what we just discovered in 2023, I believe, is the winter foraging grounds for cook and lip belugas. Um, So it is, it is right now, right off of a national park. It is like this perfect little quiet oasis. Mm-hmm. Um, where they can go and they can eat and they can have their babies and be safe. Um, and putting a deep sea port in there, just the installation of the court alone, the noise from that would be really catastrophic. This is why I love talking to people who live in the local community, because these are the stuff that we don't realize when we, when we hear about mines, like the deep sea ports, like same thing with what's going on with pipelines is like they have to go to a deep sea port in BC because that's how we get the big ships and and out, right?

37:02 And then we don't know what's being affected by those areas already. And so this is why I love talking to people like yourselves because you can. Make that enlightened for the audience. So when we talk about a mine, it's not just a mine that like the physical aspect of putting the mine in. It's the roads that go in that are built. It's the habitat that's displaced. It's the, the deep sea ports that going in the ha in the, and the animals that use that, as we just mentioned, the belugas. Are it important winter foraging area like this all matters. When we, when we look at this and, and I think, you know, going into oil and gas, uh, which we can talk about now is, you know, we don't realize the setup and the infrastructure that needs to be added into a place that is dominated by this beautiful wilderness and that people have been living here and, and enjoying and, and, and living under and with, uh, in unison for.

37:55 You know, thousands of years. And so to have someone come up and just be like, yeah, you know, someone in DC to be like, Hey, you know, we're like, Austin is great, but the oil is better and we're gonna make so much money off the oil, which we've probably heard the rhetoric. I'm not gonna mention who says that. And, you know, but not understanding all the stuff that needs to be built around it and the history around it. So let's, let's talk about, you know, there's, there's a lot of history as you mentioned, Lauren, in terms of, of oil and gas and LNG and everything like that within Alaska. Can you talk about how that history has influenced life in and around Cook Inlet or even just Alaska in general?

38:40 Yeah. Jamie, you looked like you maybe wanted to. No, I'm, I'm think, I'm, I'm thinking, I'm pulling ideas together, so, and like, uh, yeah. Uh, let me just taking, taking this idea and putting this one here, um. Yeah. Lauren, I don't know if you had, if you, if you wanted to, if you wanted to, to lead the charge or, um, or I can on that. Um, but yeah, I don't know. Do you have a strong feeling? No, I mean, I think it's, um, when we're looking at specifically oil and gas, it's been a really mixed bag. And, um, one of the things we can talk about is maybe the little bit of the dependency trap and SB 92 that we're looking at right now.

39:23 Yeah. Um, you know, I think oil and gas has this very lovely mystique of, it's going to bring in jobs and it's going to bring in money. And we just know that that narrative has changed, that it's just no longer true. It's very antiquated. Um, and it, you know, this is a lot. I am still learning, so that's why I'm mm-hmm. Kind of like pausing. 'cause I, you know, Alaskans are very smart and very involved in their politics, And so I don't want to step on anybody's. So, but Understood. Understood. You know, uh, we. We used to, like, we have this Alaska permanent fund. Um, And so oil and gas used to be a big part of revenue for Alaska. Mm-hmm. And that has diminished more and more. And I'll let Jamie speak more on the SB 92 stuff 'cause he, um, prepped for that better.

40:06 But, uh, there are a lot of loopholes right now that are allowing, uh, specifically Hillcorp who's the only really invested, um, as far as offshore up here. Okay. To come in and drill and not pay any income tax on it so that money is not staying in Alaska. Um. And it's been really detrimental to our schools, to our roads, to our healthcare system. And I'm gonna be quiet now and let you speak, Jamie. Well, yeah. Um, and I mean, yeah, Lauren, Lauren basically did a, did a great summary of it. But, so I mean, obviously Alaska has, um, a long and involved history with extracted industries including, uh, oil and gas. And, I mean, actually Cook Inlet Keeper got its start after the Exxon Valdi disaster Um, So, you know, most expensive, uh, oil spill in human history.

40:57 Mm-hmm. Um, and it happened in Prince William Sound, uh, which was, I mean, on the map it looks next door to us. We were, we were getting oil up here in, in, uh, in Cook Inlet. We're hundreds of miles away. Wow. Uh, for reference, and this was a, it was absolutely massive. Um, and there have been bigger ones, right. But this one was, was huge and in this really beautiful area of Alaska. And, um, you know, it is, you know, we, we have this, this really involved history with, uh, both that industry and the dangers that are associated with it. I'd say one of the things recently, so our, yeah, our state, obviously we, this, the state, you know, has a large sort of financial, um, I, I guess, uh, stake in, um, in industries like oil and gas.

41:52 And it has created, um, something that is called the dependency trap, where we're, we're. Sort of forced into a situation that is not ideal for us because we believe that we are sort of dependent upon, um, this resource being extracted or used in a certain way. Um, So prior to 2018, uh, our oil royalties and taxes were the vast majority of our state revenue. And but since then there's been the, a combination of lower oil prices and uh, like tax giveaways that have really changed, um, really changed the landscape.

42:34 So like, so. Hillcorp is one of the biggest, for instance, is one of the biggest oil and gas companies, uh, operating in Alaska. Yeah. And it's privately owned. So it's uh, what's called an S corporation under US tax code. And that's in contrast to like c corporations that are owned by stockholders who, you know, trade ownership and charities, the public markets. Hillcorp is privately owned. Alaska has adopted these s-corp versus C-Corp designations into its tax system, but it taxes s corporations, privately owned corporations based on personal income tax, um, on the returns to their owners rather than the, the corporates, like the total corporation income tax.

43:26 Um, and Alaska doesn't have personal income tax. And so that means because Hillcorp is, Yeah, because Hillco is privately owned. Pretty much the vast majority of their revenues aren't taxed at all. So basically they are allowed to go in and in public waters and extract this public resource, um, for profit. But all of that profit, all of those resources go straight out of the state, um, because we're not actually able to, to, to tax them. Um, and you know, that's become a political flashpoint in recent years.

44:09 Some policy makers are advancing a bill called SB 92, which is, uh, a senate bill in the alleged, in the alleged Alaska legislature. Um, that's aimed at closing that s corporation loophole. But they're getting a lot of opposition by, uh, political opponents from one particular party, um, who are saying that it's unfairly targeting oil companies like Hillco. And I don't know, to me that's kind of nonsensical 'cause like, so like for. I am a small business owner, and I do, like, I do stuff on the side and I have to pay taxes on. Yeah. I have to pay state income, state tax on my small business.

44:49 Yeah. And if I have to pay my fair share, it is always just staggering to me that a mega corporation like Hillcorp, um, doesn't have to, as they would have to in any other state in the us. Um, and also that people are insisting that it's not fair to tax a company that size while, you know, it's like, well, I'm, I'm paying. Yeah. I'm paying, what are they doing? You know? Well, and my, And so Yeah, my first, my first thought of looking out, like looking in from outside is like, they're doing this on purpose. Like they did this as, like, they didn't, they, they probably incorporated as that knowing.

45:29 Like in certain states that they can get away with this. And, and this is what ticks me off is, you know, like you said Lauren, at the beginning over this conversation about oil and gas is the traditional selling point of like, hey, it brings in jobs, it brings in, you know, money to the, to the state or money to the local area. That's just not true anymore. Because these co corporations will try and get away with whatever they can to get whatever money they can and out the state and going somewhere else. I don't know where Hill is Hillcorp a US company? Is it a traditionally US company? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so you're just like, it, it just like, even just the fact that they don't do anything for the state, knowing that they get a lot of their profits from the state, it's just, it bothers me to no end.

46:14 You know what I mean? It's like that's the state that's giving you everything, you know what you're doing to it in the long run and you're not gonna give, uh, any money. So that, that's frustrating. How do like. Like Alaskans, look at that and, and, and like how do they treat that company or even just look like, what's their outlook on that company? Yeah, I mean, Hillco has a awful, awful reputation. Um, well deserved, awful reputation in the city. Been fined I believe 20 times. They were just fine in November. Um, they've had gas leaks before. Um, and they really are the only one, you know, when we get into a little bit more specifics on the five-year plan, you know, when we look at what has been leased in Alaska, it's mostly state waters.

47:00 Um, and that's hillcorp. They have 137, I believe, leases in state waters. They have some in federal waters that are inactive, um, already. And we have, we being the communities. Of Cook Inlet have stood up kind of time and time again. Mm-hmm. Um, it's been incredibly frustrating. You know, we were removed from the ten five year plan, which was supposed to still be active. Um, it was supposed to start in 2024. And so, um, to have us be put back in again after folks have already said, you know, we haven't, we have great industries here that are all absolutely dependent on the health and of our salmon and our clean water. You know, we have commercial fishing, sport fishing, ecotourism, um, And then we, of course have our subsistence use.

47:44 And so putting that at risk for an industry to come in and do exploration work, which just the exploration work alone is really detrimental. Mm-hmm. Um, it's not something that folks here want, and I, it's been, I won't say it's been completely bipartisan. I think that wouldn't be fair to say, but I think. In a large part, folks are in agreement that, um, our salmon resources and our water resources are much more valuable to us long term. Right, right. So that's been expressed in a number of, on a number of different levels and number of, of different ways. Um, now you mentioned that there like, you know, hill Corp is still doing some, some drilling and, and they're, they're getting their, their money. Um, you mentioned there's some other leasing, uh, things that are going on on top of like, so we we're, you know, we're here to talk about the US oil and gas plan for, for the most part, but there's other things that are happening before this got put together.

48:37 Can you talk a little bit about, uh, Lauren, a little bit about that, those, those leases and, and how that's complicating just life in general And then. You know what, this US plan adds onto that. Yeah, absolutely. Um, this is a little complicated, so bear with me and tell me if I'm getting in the weeds, but No worries. Um, we are calling this like the dirty dozen. This is what we've been working on since the end of last year when all of a sudden all these leasing authorities opened up Um, so it kind of kicked off. There was in the, I believe it was the ninth, um, OCS outer Continental shell plan, there was lease sale 2 58, um, which Hillcorp did bid and they were awarded. Um, and we, after they did their initial NEPA review, we took them to court, um, along with several other partners because it was, they did the whole environmental impact review in like four months.

49:27 Um, and it was just incomplete. So there was a lot of things that we were like, yeah, you didn't consider this, this, this, or this. Right. Um, and the district court agreed with us And so they ordered them to do another EIS. Um, typically when they do a supplemental, EISB would've hosted. Public hearings, public comments, done a full review, um, which was their intention until, uh, the Trump administration made some changes to NEPA and kind of, um, made the language a little more cloudy. And then it was, we are not having any public comments. It will be out by the end of the year. It's out, it's finalized till course's back in Um, So that was the first one. So that was happening. And then, um, simultaneously, you know, we had the five year plan that I mentioned, the 10th one that we had worked really hard with coalitions across the nation to get cook and lit removed from, um, we had Cook Inlet removed from that plan.

50:22 We were not slated for any, And then it was snuck into the big beautiful bill. So then we have six, um, mandated by Congress lease sales that are gonna start in March Um, So those are already happening. Um, and because they're part of a reconciliation bill, there's not a lot. Mm-hmm. Process that they need to go through for those. Um, though there's more process than they're currently doing. So that's all I'm allowed to say on that one. And then, um, And then we, you know, right at Thanksgiving time we hear, here's your new five year plan and cook and lit is back on, and here's five potential more. So that's six total, um, that are all overlapping with a really just a incredible lack of public process, um, which is really astounding.

51:09 And I think no matter where you fall on the issue, you should have a say. Um. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we were talking earlier like local expertise is not, it's not just kind of like a box to check. It really, it really is essential, especially in a place like Glasgow, we are so far removed from the people who are making these decisions. Um, and there's no way that they could know some of these things. They need to hear from the fishermen who are out there, who know the tides, who know the wind patterns, who know what the reality of actually trying to do. Any kind of development in those areas is going to be. Um, and they, the OCS does have a public comment period, so we want folks to get in there and comment on it.

51:49 They've made it this very short period over the holidays that we believe was intentional. Um, and, you know, folks are tired. Folks already commented on this just a few years ago, right? Um, So it's hard to go back and say, we know you won, but you gotta do it again. Um, but it did make a difference that first time and it, it, they do have to take it into account. So it is really important that we kind of keep beating that drum. So you can still use the LA the two years ago, the process as a little bit of this process to say, Hey, you know, we beat it once we can, we can beat it again. Yeah. And how have people reacted to sort of that mind mindset? Um, I would say the people in our community are wonderful.

52:30 Um, Alaskans more than anywhere else I've ever lived, people are involved. Like, yeah, they want to know, they wanna be part of the process and, uh. You know, Jamie and I are newer to Alaska and we're newer to this organization, but we have folks here who've been working on this for 30 years. Yeah. Um, and they're like, alright, here we go again. I'm ready. Let me bust out the language. So people are, people are ready. Well, I think they're ready. And they've also learned the tricks, you know what I mean? Through maybe some hard times and some hard lessons learned. Um, but they're, they're, they know it's not gonna stop. They know it's gonna keep coming and they, they're like, they're resilient in that way where it's like, okay. And luckily they've had some success in the past to be able to, to build on, uh, to put this through.

53:13 And, and let's be honest too, like the last Trump administration, they had very similar, uh, you know, lease sale and it didn't go through, or it never ended up going through for whatever reason. Um, hopefully that happens again this time. Um, we're starting to see a lot of public, uh, participation in the deep sea mining, uh, uh, you know, public comment periods and, and things like that. I assume we're gonna see the same thing, uh, for, for this public comment period. Um, oh, I assume you're, you're expecting an overwhelming No from, from the public comment period here. And, and how are you as a, as a organization and Jamie, 'cause the communications director, maybe you can do it. How are you sort of.

53:54 Um, guiding people to help do like sort of the, have the, the biggest bang for their buck in terms of putting it, putting the public comments in and being effective. Yeah, absolutely. So we've made, um, we have a bunch of resources that we're making available, uh, for people to, to go to, to kind of help guide them through this process. So on our website, um, we have a, a page that is actually dedicated, um, to, uh. To oil and gas lease sales. And on that page we've got, uh, like talking points that people can use. Uh, we've got the link to the actual place where they're supposed to do, where they can go to submit the comments.

54:35 And, um, in a couple of hours. And at five 30 today we're gonna be doing a online, like video training session where we can kind of walk people through the issue and how to go about commenting on it. And, uh, we're gonna record that and put that up online as well. So we're just trying to get as much as we can out there for people, uh, to both be aware that this is happening and that, you know, this thing that's happening over the, uh, holidays that is trying to be stuck under their nose is, is happening right now. And they've gotta, they've gotta get a comment in, um, by January 23rd. Um, especially because, you know, we've got.

55:16 Like Lauren said, we've got 12 lease sales, uh, either that have either happened or are about to happen in Cook Inlet alone. And this is because of, you know, the various loopholes that, uh, the, that the federal government has been using to get rid of, to constrain public comment. This is potentially like the only opportunity that people are gonna get Yeah. To actually make a public comment. Right. So it's like, okay, you get one, we get one shot at this. Yeah. Um, So we're trying to really emphasize online that you know, that this is particularly important time and um, yeah. And do people have to be like, people who care for cooking that may not live in Cook, like a person like myself or someone else in the lower 48, they can still comment for Cook Inlet, like, you know what I mean?

56:04 Like they can still mention it in the public comment. I'm just gonna add. You know, as you, as, as, uh, you're looking to answer that I'm gonna just put up, uh, if you go to speak up for blue.com, cook Inlet, it'll take you, I'm gonna, uh, link to this page with the, the what you mentioned, um, Jamie, the, the oil and gas lease page, um, on Cook Inlets web. On Inlet Keeper's website. 'cause it's, it's phenomenal. It gives you everything you need to know. It has a timeline going back from, uh, 2017 to 2018 and a lot of like, sort of the things that happened there. Um, I think it's, I think it's fantastic. So just, I just want to let people know. So speak up for blue.com/ let's do inlet Keeper, we'll do Inlet Keeper And then so that you can go there to, to take a look.

56:44 Um, but you know, like, so people from outside the lower 40 eights, Lauren can actually answer, like, can answer, put up public comment And then put their, you know, say, Hey, we love Alaska the way it is. Leave it alone. Like, don't, don't touch it, right? Yeah, absolutely. You know, these are, whether it's for Alaska or anywhere, you know, all of these coasts right across the nation are up. Um. And they're public waters, they're waterways that we as US citizens, they are ours. And so, um, I, I really strongly believe that it's a national resource. Having these wild fisheries is gonna be essential, um, for long-term food security for, like, I just can't even imagine a world where we don't have our wild fisheries.

57:27 It breaks my heart. And so, um, absolutely if you care about fisheries, if you've visited, you know, so many people come out and visit like Lake Clark and Kamai and Homer and come halibut fishing here if you've been here. Um, and most of those folks actually surprisingly do, because it really does captivate you once you've been here once. It's hard. It's hard not to fall in love with it and hard to imagine it not being here anymore. And, and, you know, I think throughout the episode, you, you mentioned something really important. It's oil and gas is not the most important industry. You know, within, like the Cookland in Inlet area. And I think that's a really important thing to say. I think a lot of, I think the narrative, uh, from a, from a federal perspective is that it is.

58:10 Mm-hmm. Um, but like you said, it's, it's the, it's the, the, the, the wild in general, but also the fisheries is such an important aspect and it, it outweighs from a financial perspective what oil and gas will give. 'cause right now, oil and gas is giving jackal to ever to, to what, you know, to the, to the, the people of Alaska. And I think that's a, a, a big thing to, to, to mention here because. You know, that that just can't happen where you don't, Ben, like the local community doesn't benefit in whatever way, whatever their biggest stakeholder group is, that that stakeholder group needs to benefit. And it's, we know it's not oil and gas and, And so I think that's a, a, a major point to, to put like, in the public comment, it's like, yeah, you know, like, this is not important to us.

58:56 We care about fisheries, we care about wildlife. You know, that's what's important to us. That's what brings in, um, the money for us. That's what bring, that's what encapsulates us as a. As a community, as a, as a state. Right. So I think that's, that's really important. Um, okay. So I will let, let people know. So speak up for blue.com/in inlet keeper, you know, you can go there. I'll put it in the, in the show notes also, if you can, uh, Jamie. And if once you've done that, uh, once you've put up that, uh, webinar that you're putting on, if you can send the link, we'll put it in the show notes as well so that by the time we publish this episode, that'll be up. So people can take a look too to find out more what they can do to put on the public comment. Um, 'cause I think that'll be really handy. 'cause it's not just writing something, it's what you write to make.

59:38 So, so make use of this page that we, that they put up, the link keeper put up and, and, uh, it'll be, it'll be really great. Um, you know, so I guess like in terms of, um, is there anything else that you want to cover that we haven't covered here? Um, you know, where, where that, that would be important for you to get out so that people can, um, you know, can take hold of. Um, yeah, I think there's a, uh, certainly the first thing that that comes to mind for me is that, that like just reinforcing the idea that everything in this watershed is built on the back of our fisheries and our salmon. And that's true for both the people and for the environment here.

1:00:18 So, you know, the bears are reliant on the salmon. Um, the salmon swim upstream every year to spawn. And then, you know, after they've spawned they perish and all that nitrogen from their bodies feeds into the feeds into the forests up here. Um, the trees are reliant on and are built on salmon up here. The birds are reliant on it. Um, this place is this sort of last, one of the, one of the last sort of bastions of, of this sort of wilderness. And not only is the ecosystem built on salmon, but our economies are here. Hmm. And you know, between, between the, uh, the, the millions of dollars brought in just in this region alone in tourism, ecotourism, bear viewing, uh, charter fishing, commercial fishing, um, you know, that all brings so much more to the table then, uh, than an oil, than than extractive processes like oil drilling possibly could.

1:01:21 And yeah, the risk posed by, by oil drilling in this area is immense. Um, because, you know, each of these, each of these lease sales that, that happen, like the most recent one, lease sale 2 58, there was a, they, they, the, they did a model on it, on sort of the, the risk of a major spill that was. Associated with this particular lease sale and they estimated that there was about a 19% chance of a major spill happening. So this is the kind of thing that would be, you know, destructive across the board and could, you know, choke out, choke out our fish and also be just immensely destructive to wildlife, both in the, in the Ocean and also on land.

1:02:13 And that's just one lease sale. When you start adding up the fact that we already have a bunch of, when we have a bunch of sort of extracted industries further up the inlet plus each new lease sale coming in, having its own risk associated, that risk becomes additive. So lease sale 2 58 is 20%. When you add on the lease sale before that, um, it becomes 40%. And when you account for all of the current leases that are already happening in Cook Inlet, we're already hovering. Well over 50% of a well over 50% chance of a risk of a major oil spill in the area.

1:02:55 And that's before we start adding even more to the region. So, you know, when you think about what's at stake here, um, the risk to this place is so high and the probability of a, of a major oil spill is so high. And when you think about like, the value of this place and how all of that could disappear, you know, thinking about it from a local standpoint, if you wanna bet all of the beauty of this place and your livelihood and like the local economy and like your subsistence way of life on a, like a poker hand that you have a seven out of 10 chance of losing, is it really worth the risk?

1:03:42 You know, um, it almost comes down. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. That's really what, that's, you know, like that's absolutely what we're talking about here. I remember there was a quote from a, a, a shell executive who says like, yeah, you know, spills are part of business, but that's, that's part of their business. Not the business of the local people. Not the business of the fishers, not the business of, you know, people who live off the land. And, you know, just like, as you mentioned at the beginning of the episode and, and all the stuff that's affected afterwards, you know, like you mentioned, salmon go up and spawn up in the, in the headwaters. They eventually, they will die. They will, their nitrogen goes into the forest. The forest grow from that. And it's just a, a regenerative positive feedback that gets interrupted.

1:04:25 A lot of stuff goes to hell. Like, let's, let's be honest here, from a nature perspective, but also from a human perspective. And, and, and this, in these types of environments like Alaska, they cannot handle big changes like that. And, and, and for people who come in and just take money and bring it out and don't even support the community. I is, it is just like a, it's a non-starter for me. Right. I think it's easy to say that it's a, it's a non-starter. Um, Lauren, just in terms of final thoughts, uh, do you have anything, you know, from, from in the key? Right. That's a, that's a big, big talking point here, but, um, you know, no, I, I'm jotting stuff down. I'm, you know, I would love to leave people with a little bit of hope that, like their actions really are gonna make a difference.

1:05:07 Um, I think this last year, I know many of us felt just pummeled, you know, whether it was from an environmental or humanitarian, you know, so many things have been happening in the world and it can feel incredibly overwhelming and like, um, like sitting down to write a 10 minute email is not gonna make much of a difference. Right. But it really does. Um, and we've seen that time and time again. And so I really encourage people, I, I understand it's a very complicated narrative. Um, even for us who are working in it, we're like, okay, make sure we're understanding the tax codes. Make sure we're understanding the implications of. You know, this protection act and now NEPA has changed and it's changing very quickly. And so we don't expect anyone to be an expert.

1:05:47 Mm-hmm. Um, unless you are an expert. And then we really need hear, comment. Yes, absolutely. But what we also need is just the public. I, the public needs to speak up that this is a resource that is already in use and is already important. Um, And so personal stories really, really do matter. Um, and if you can take 10 minutes to write something, yeah. It will make a difference. Um, and lifetime of a difference. Little bit about that Yeah. Yeah. For you, for future generations. Absolutely. Yeah. For your kids, Lauren, for your girls growing up in that area. Yeah, my, my kids can still go eat sea lettuce when we go down to the beach, please. Ready to comment? Absolutely. Uh, Lauren and Jamie, I can't thank you enough for spending time with me today and, and with us, you know, here at How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1:06:32 Like the audience loves the fact that we, we can hear from people from all over the us. And how they feel about this. Uh, and, and you know, just to give it context, to give, you know, from a local context of like what's really important to the people and how these, these major plans that are put off, you know, that are made by people who don't even live there or maybe never have been there, never will be there, uh, how it affects local people. And I think that's, it's a, it's a really big tell in terms of just not understanding what's, what's local and, and, and how important it is. So I wanna thank you so much for sharing all the information. Love to have you back on to talk about all the other wonderful work that you guys do, um, because I think it's really important and, and it was just so much fun talking to both of you.

1:07:16 So I appreciate you spending that time with me. Thank you so much. We really appreciate you and your listeners and everyone who has a stake in protecting our oceans. Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you all. Thank you, Lauren. And thank you, Jamie, for joining us on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. This was Revelations like I've never seen before. It's not what I thought it would be. A lot of times when we talk about oil and gas moving into a coastline, especially with the history that Alaska has had, you don't expect somebody who's never been to Alaska, and I've been to the Northwest Territories And so forth, you don't really understand how important little things are there and how important it's to the community and that oil and gas may not be the biggest industry that's benefiting that local community.

1:07:57 And in this case, that's what Jamie and Lauren have said over and over and over again is that the fishing is what's the biggest financial impact to the community, not only from an environmental perspective, but actually from a monetary perspective. The oil and gas industry, the way it's set up now is not benefiting the community in any way other than the potential of oil spills and what Jamie mentioned in terms of the percentage of risk that there is from an oil spill at 90%. It's not a matter of. If it's a matter of when, 90% chance that there's gonna be an oil spill that is going to affect this inlet for decades, if not more. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when oil spills are gonna happen in this area, and without that, we're not gonna see a change.

1:08:39 We're not gonna see a benefit to this community from a monetary perspective, from an environmental perspective, from a health perspective, we are going to see a detriment to this community. That's not said on the federal level, on the overview level of what they're saying in the press conferences and things like this. We have seen it time and time again. We have seen it on the coast of California. We have seen it in the Gulf and we've seen it here in Cook Inlet. How many more interviews do I have to do to just be tell us? Everybody's like, Hey, this isn't good for the people. It's not good for the people, not the way it was before. If it was, and the long term hazards are outweighing the benefits. There are any, so keep that in mind. Go to speak up for blue.com/inlet keeper.

1:09:19 They have a page there all about the oil and gas lease sales, but also in there, what's really important is they have a five-year plan talking points, and they have a link to submit a comment about the five-year plan. It's not just for the Cook inlet, it's for all of the us. 1.4 billion acres of us is up for grabs on leases that shouldn't happen. And so make your comment, whether you're a US citizen or a non-US citizen, if you don't wanna see the environment go to hell, then this is what we need to do. We are way past the stage of needing this amount of drilling, and we have the ability for renewals to help. And so this administration needs to hear that And so they hear it through you, the people. So if you're listening to this and you really believe in this, go to speak up for blue.com/inlet keeper and submit your comment today.

1:10:02 I'm gonna also link to the webinar of a workshop that Jamie and Lauren and the Cook Inlet Keepers are putting on. I would love you if you wanna watch that. You can watch that just to get a little bit more involved and find out what you can do for the most impactful public comment that you can put together. I want to thank Lauren and Jamie for joining me today. I wanna thank the inlet keeper at Cook Inlet for all the work that they do and all the people around there that live there, and for spending time with me today to talk to us and say, Hey, you know what? This isn't a good idea and this is why. So thank you so much for that. If you have any questions or comments, please leave it in the comment section below. If you're watching this on YouTube. Or if you're listening to this on your favorite audio podcast, you go to speak up for blue.com/feedback. You can leave a voicemail or you can leave a comment.

1:10:45 I would love to hear what you have to say. This is the beginning of a conversation and I'd love to continue that conversation with you, either on social media, Instagram, how to protect the Ocean, TikTok, speak up for blue. All this. We're everywhere. We're just everywhere. Just go to the website speaker for blue.com. I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host Angelo, and from the true nor strong and free, have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and help conservation.