March 4, 2026
The Ocean Just Got a Historic Deal. Will It Actually Protect Your Future?
High Seas Treaty: Nearly half the planet lies beyond national borders, and for decades it has operated under fragmented rules and weak oversight. Now, countries have agreed to a historic global deal to protect biodiversity in international waters. It sounds like a turning point. But a signed agreement does not automatically stop illegal fishing, deep sea extraction, or weak enforcement. The real question is whether this treaty will move protection from paper to practice.
BBNJ Agreement: The new treaty under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea creates a legal pathway to establish marine protected areas in Areas Beyond National Jurisdiction. For the first time, there is a framework to designate high seas MPAs, require environmental impact assessments, and support developing nations through capacity building and technology transfer. This aligns directly with global 30 by 30 biodiversity targets. Without protection in international waters, meaningful global conservation would be mathematically impossible.
Ocean Governance and Enforcement: Legal authority does not guarantee compliance. There is no global navy. Enforcement depends largely on flag states monitoring their own vessels, while industrial fishing fleets, shipping interests, and emerging deep-sea mining operations continue to operate far from public view. The treaty creates possibility, but political will, transparency, and real enforcement will determine whether it protects ecosystems or becomes another symbolic milestone.
The ocean does not respond to agreements. It responds to action. Listen to this episode to understand what this historic deal means for your future and the future of the planet.
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Transcript
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The high seas
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treaty, promise
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or political
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theater.
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Nearly half of
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the planet is
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ocean beyond the
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national borders.
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For decades, it
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has been governed
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by fragmented
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rules and weak
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oversight.
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So when countries
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finally agreed to
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protect
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biodiversity on
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the high seas,
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it sounded
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historic.
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But will it
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change anything
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on the water?
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This is how to
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protect the ocean
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podcast, your
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weekly ocean
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news update.
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If you care about
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staying informed
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on the ocean
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every weekday,
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hit that follow
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button right now
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so you don't miss
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tomorrow's story.
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The high seas
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treaty has
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created the first
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legal mechanism
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to establish
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marine protected
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areas in
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international
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waters.
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For the first
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time,
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biodiversity
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protection beyond
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national
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jurisdiction has
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a global
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framework.
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That is
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significant.
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But the key
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question here is,
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will the high
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seas treaty
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produce real
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protection or
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remain largely
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symbolic like
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we've seen in
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many other
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agreements?
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Here's the
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problem with the
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high seas in
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general before
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the high treaty
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was ratified.
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Nearly two thirds
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of the ocean lies
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beyond national
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jurisdiction.
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These areas are
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often called
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areas beyond
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national
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jurisdiction
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or ABNG.
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Historically, we
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haven't been able
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to create binding
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MPAs beyond those
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national borders.
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Governance has
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been fragmented
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across fisheries
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borders, shipping
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rules and seabed
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mining
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authorities.
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Just a lot of
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different types
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of legal
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frameworks that
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haven't
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really worked.
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Industrial fishing fleets
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operate thousands
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of kilometers
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from home ports,
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are very
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difficult to
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enforce and the
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responsibility
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rests primarily
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on the
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flag states.
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If you don't know
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what a flag state
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is, essentially
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every boat has to
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sail
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under a flag.
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So for instance,
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if I registered
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my boat in
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Canada, I had to
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fly the Canadian
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flag, I run under
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the Canadian
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flag, I follow
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the
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Canadian rules.
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But there are
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other countries
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who do not
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enforce those
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rules for their
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own country.
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Like a lot of
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people will fly
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under like a
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turkey flag and
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they'll go around
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and they'll go
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and fish wherever
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they want and
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they won't be
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beholden to the
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country turkey
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because they
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don't really
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enforce the
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borders.
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I'm just using
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this as an
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example. I'm not
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saying Turkey
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doesn't enforce
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the borders. I'm
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just kind of
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giving an
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example here.
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But when everyone
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is responsible,
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no one is really
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accountable. And that's a problem.
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So here's what
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the treaty
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actually is set
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up to do. The
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high seas treaty
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formerly known as
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the BB and J
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agreement, which
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stands for
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biodiversity of
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areas beyond
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national
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jurisdiction.
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It's under the UN
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Convention of the
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Law of the Sea
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and establishes
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this a process to
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designate MPAs in
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international
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waters.
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Environmental
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impact assessment
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requirements for
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the high seas
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activities.
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Provisions for
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sharing marine
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genetic
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resources,
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capacity building
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and technology
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transfer for
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developing state
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nations, a
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conference of
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parties structure
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to a conference
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of party
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structure.
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So a cop
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structure to
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guide
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implementation.
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So we've seen cop
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structures in
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other agreements
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like the climate
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like the Paris
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Accord, the
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climate change
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agreement.
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They don't really
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go very well.
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Same with oil and
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gas. Same with
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the plastics
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treaty. These
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cops do not
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really work very
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well. And that
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could be a
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problem. We'll
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talk about that in just a second.
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The treaty
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required
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ratification by
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60 countries to
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enter into force
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and it actually
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entered into
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force on January
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17th, 2026. It's
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not automatic
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protection. It's
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a framework for
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potential
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protection.
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Now here's why
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the high seas
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treaty is
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historically
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significant. For
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decades
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conservationists
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argued that the
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high seas
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biodiversity was
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lacking a legal
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standing. This
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treaty
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changed that.
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It creates a
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legal authority
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to establish
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MPAs. Mechanisms
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to assess
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cumulative
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environmental
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impacts. So
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that's over a lot
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of different
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things. It could
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be shipping, it
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could be
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fisheries, it
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could be anything
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you really want.
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Marine pollution
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could be
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anything.
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And a governance
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structure that
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can align over
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time. This aligns
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with the global
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30 by 30
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biodiversity
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targets. And
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without a high
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seas framework,
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30% of global
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protection was
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mathematically
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impossible.
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But here's the
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problem. You can
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have a legal
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framework, but if
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you don't have
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enforcement, like
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we talked about
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in the last two
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days, we have a
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problem. It gets
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really
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complicated when
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we don't have
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enforcement.
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There is no,
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there's no global
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Navy. Like
304
00:04:13,208 --> 00:04:14,041
there's no UN
305
00:04:14,041 --> 00:04:15,125
body that will go
306
00:04:15,125 --> 00:04:16,041
around and
307
00:04:16,041 --> 00:04:16,708
provide
308
00:04:16,708 --> 00:04:17,958
enforcement. Enforcement
309
00:04:17,958 --> 00:04:19,333
relies largely on
310
00:04:19,333 --> 00:04:19,916
the flag states
311
00:04:19,916 --> 00:04:20,541
policing their
312
00:04:20,541 --> 00:04:22,041
own vessels. Some
313
00:04:22,041 --> 00:04:22,708
distant water
314
00:04:22,708 --> 00:04:23,291
fleets operate
315
00:04:23,291 --> 00:04:24,208
under flags of
316
00:04:24,208 --> 00:04:24,666
convenience.
317
00:04:25,708 --> 00:04:26,083
So you'll have
318
00:04:26,083 --> 00:04:26,833
like some
319
00:04:26,833 --> 00:04:27,583
fisheries that
320
00:04:27,583 --> 00:04:28,416
will go some
321
00:04:28,416 --> 00:04:29,041
fisheries vessels
322
00:04:29,041 --> 00:04:29,958
or fleets that
323
00:04:29,958 --> 00:04:30,916
will go way, way
324
00:04:30,916 --> 00:04:31,500
far off their
325
00:04:31,500 --> 00:04:32,666
borders. Nobody
326
00:04:32,666 --> 00:04:33,333
can really see
327
00:04:33,333 --> 00:04:33,916
them except for
328
00:04:33,916 --> 00:04:34,458
satellites and
329
00:04:34,458 --> 00:04:34,916
maybe other
330
00:04:34,916 --> 00:04:35,750
countries and
331
00:04:35,750 --> 00:04:36,291
they'll be able
332
00:04:36,291 --> 00:04:36,833
to act the way
333
00:04:36,833 --> 00:04:37,541
they want, but
334
00:04:37,541 --> 00:04:38,375
they may not fly
335
00:04:38,375 --> 00:04:39,083
under the flag
336
00:04:39,083 --> 00:04:39,500
that they're
337
00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:40,208
actually, you
338
00:04:40,208 --> 00:04:41,083
know, stay in.
339
00:04:41,375 --> 00:04:41,750
They're just
340
00:04:41,750 --> 00:04:42,583
registered under
341
00:04:42,583 --> 00:04:43,250
a different flag
342
00:04:43,250 --> 00:04:44,375
that may not have
343
00:04:44,375 --> 00:04:45,250
the same legal
344
00:04:45,250 --> 00:04:46,375
frameworks or the
345
00:04:46,375 --> 00:04:47,208
same enforcement
346
00:04:47,208 --> 00:04:48,458
ability to
347
00:04:48,458 --> 00:04:49,333
prosecute these
348
00:04:49,333 --> 00:04:50,166
ships. So they
349
00:04:50,166 --> 00:04:50,833
just end up doing
350
00:04:50,833 --> 00:04:51,250
whatever they
351
00:04:51,250 --> 00:04:51,916
want and they get
352
00:04:51,916 --> 00:04:52,333
away with
353
00:04:52,333 --> 00:04:52,708
everything.
354
00:04:53,250 --> 00:04:53,833
And then of
355
00:04:53,833 --> 00:04:54,583
course monitoring
356
00:04:54,583 --> 00:04:55,458
of all these
357
00:04:55,458 --> 00:04:56,250
distance fleets
358
00:04:56,250 --> 00:04:57,875
really depends on
359
00:04:57,875 --> 00:04:58,333
satellite
360
00:04:58,333 --> 00:04:59,000
tracking and
361
00:04:59,000 --> 00:04:59,416
reporting
362
00:04:59,416 --> 00:05:01,208
compliance. If a
363
00:05:01,208 --> 00:05:01,791
country fails to
364
00:05:01,791 --> 00:05:02,166
enforce
365
00:05:02,166 --> 00:05:02,750
violations
366
00:05:02,750 --> 00:05:03,625
against their own
367
00:05:03,625 --> 00:05:04,166
vessels,
368
00:05:04,541 --> 00:05:04,916
accountability
369
00:05:04,916 --> 00:05:06,000
mechanisms are
370
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,291
limited. Legal
371
00:05:07,291 --> 00:05:07,916
authority does
372
00:05:07,916 --> 00:05:09,125
not guarantee
373
00:05:09,125 --> 00:05:09,958
compliance.
374
00:05:10,750 --> 00:05:11,250
Now, of course,
375
00:05:11,250 --> 00:05:11,541
with the high
376
00:05:11,541 --> 00:05:12,583
seas treaty, you
377
00:05:12,583 --> 00:05:13,583
know, from an
378
00:05:13,583 --> 00:05:14,000
ecological
379
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:14,875
standpoint, it
380
00:05:14,875 --> 00:05:15,500
makes sense,
381
00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:16,041
right? We see the
382
00:05:16,041 --> 00:05:16,625
high seas treaty
383
00:05:16,625 --> 00:05:17,250
and be like, this
384
00:05:17,250 --> 00:05:17,708
is going to
385
00:05:17,708 --> 00:05:18,041
protect
386
00:05:18,041 --> 00:05:18,541
biodiversity.
387
00:05:19,083 --> 00:05:19,333
We're going to
388
00:05:19,333 --> 00:05:20,250
get MPAs. We're
389
00:05:20,250 --> 00:05:20,625
going to get
390
00:05:20,625 --> 00:05:21,208
environmental
391
00:05:21,208 --> 00:05:21,666
impact
392
00:05:21,666 --> 00:05:22,458
assessments on a
393
00:05:22,458 --> 00:05:22,875
lot of different
394
00:05:22,875 --> 00:05:23,250
things that are
395
00:05:23,250 --> 00:05:24,333
happening along
396
00:05:24,333 --> 00:05:25,708
like in the high
397
00:05:25,708 --> 00:05:26,500
seas, like deep
398
00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:27,166
sea mining,
399
00:05:27,500 --> 00:05:28,666
fisheries, marine
400
00:05:28,666 --> 00:05:29,208
pollution, all
401
00:05:29,208 --> 00:05:29,666
these different
402
00:05:29,666 --> 00:05:30,125
types of things
403
00:05:30,125 --> 00:05:31,125
that could affect
404
00:05:31,125 --> 00:05:31,208
the ocean.
405
00:05:31,250 --> 00:05:31,958
So from an
406
00:05:31,958 --> 00:05:32,291
ecological
407
00:05:32,291 --> 00:05:33,333
standpoint as a
408
00:05:33,333 --> 00:05:34,333
scientist, as an
409
00:05:34,333 --> 00:05:34,958
ecologist, this
410
00:05:34,958 --> 00:05:35,541
is great. Like
411
00:05:35,541 --> 00:05:36,000
this is great
412
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,166
news. But then we
413
00:05:37,166 --> 00:05:37,708
don't really
414
00:05:37,708 --> 00:05:38,583
factor in
415
00:05:38,583 --> 00:05:39,208
industrial
416
00:05:39,208 --> 00:05:39,958
pressure or
417
00:05:39,958 --> 00:05:40,958
geopolitics,
418
00:05:40,958 --> 00:05:41,708
right? So the
419
00:05:41,708 --> 00:05:42,541
high seas are
420
00:05:42,541 --> 00:05:43,208
economically
421
00:05:43,208 --> 00:05:44,375
valuable. The
422
00:05:44,375 --> 00:05:45,000
industrial tuna
423
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,000
fleets operate
424
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,000
extensively in international
425
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,875
waters. Deep sea
426
00:05:48,875 --> 00:05:49,500
mining interests
427
00:05:49,500 --> 00:05:50,500
are expanding.
428
00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:50,833
We're seeing it
429
00:05:50,833 --> 00:05:51,500
in the US and
430
00:05:51,500 --> 00:05:52,041
we're seeing it
431
00:05:52,041 --> 00:05:52,833
in like places
432
00:05:52,833 --> 00:05:53,500
like Norway,
433
00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:54,000
although they've
434
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:54,625
banned it for a
435
00:05:54,625 --> 00:05:55,416
little while, but
436
00:05:55,416 --> 00:05:55,833
we're starting to
437
00:05:55,833 --> 00:05:56,541
see interest from
438
00:05:56,541 --> 00:05:56,916
a lot of
439
00:05:56,916 --> 00:05:57,125
different
440
00:05:57,125 --> 00:05:58,250
countries. Marine
441
00:05:58,250 --> 00:05:59,166
genetic resources
442
00:05:59,166 --> 00:05:59,750
are commercially
443
00:05:59,750 --> 00:06:00,208
valuable for medicine.
444
00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:02,416
Right? These are
445
00:06:02,416 --> 00:06:02,958
very important
446
00:06:02,958 --> 00:06:03,541
things or for
447
00:06:03,541 --> 00:06:04,000
even like
448
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:04,833
clothing and all
449
00:06:04,833 --> 00:06:05,250
these different
450
00:06:05,250 --> 00:06:06,250
types of things
451
00:06:06,250 --> 00:06:07,708
that we could use
452
00:06:07,708 --> 00:06:08,666
all this genetic
453
00:06:08,666 --> 00:06:10,000
material to make
454
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:10,916
our lives better
455
00:06:10,916 --> 00:06:12,541
and make a ton of
456
00:06:12,541 --> 00:06:14,458
money. Shipping
457
00:06:14,458 --> 00:06:14,916
lanes are
458
00:06:14,916 --> 00:06:15,708
critical for
459
00:06:15,708 --> 00:06:16,708
global trade, but
460
00:06:16,708 --> 00:06:17,500
shipping lanes,
461
00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:18,041
if they're not
462
00:06:18,041 --> 00:06:18,791
done properly,
463
00:06:18,791 --> 00:06:19,666
can get in the
464
00:06:19,666 --> 00:06:21,083
way of marine
465
00:06:21,083 --> 00:06:22,291
mammals like the
466
00:06:22,291 --> 00:06:22,916
North Atlantic
467
00:06:22,916 --> 00:06:23,458
right whale,
468
00:06:23,666 --> 00:06:23,875
which is
469
00:06:23,875 --> 00:06:24,083
critically
470
00:06:24,083 --> 00:06:24,208
endangered.
471
00:06:25,250 --> 00:06:25,708
And let's be
472
00:06:25,708 --> 00:06:26,083
honest, these
473
00:06:26,083 --> 00:06:26,583
whales don't
474
00:06:26,583 --> 00:06:27,166
necessarily see
475
00:06:27,166 --> 00:06:27,875
boundaries. So if
476
00:06:27,875 --> 00:06:29,125
they go beyond
477
00:06:29,125 --> 00:06:29,666
the 200 nautical
478
00:06:29,666 --> 00:06:30,625
miles of the US
479
00:06:30,625 --> 00:06:31,416
or even Canada,
480
00:06:31,875 --> 00:06:32,833
they are open and
481
00:06:32,833 --> 00:06:33,500
anything can hit
482
00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:34,333
it. Political
483
00:06:34,333 --> 00:06:35,333
resistance can
484
00:06:35,333 --> 00:06:35,916
emerge when
485
00:06:35,916 --> 00:06:36,416
protection
486
00:06:36,416 --> 00:06:37,500
intersects with
487
00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:38,000
economic
488
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:38,708
interest. We're
489
00:06:38,708 --> 00:06:39,250
seeing it now in
490
00:06:39,250 --> 00:06:40,125
the US where
491
00:06:40,125 --> 00:06:40,541
fisheries
492
00:06:40,541 --> 00:06:41,125
protections are
493
00:06:41,125 --> 00:06:41,958
being taken away
494
00:06:41,958 --> 00:06:43,083
because there's a
495
00:06:43,083 --> 00:06:43,375
political
496
00:06:43,375 --> 00:06:44,416
interest to open
497
00:06:44,416 --> 00:06:45,250
up the economy,
498
00:06:45,250 --> 00:06:45,541
the fisheries
499
00:06:45,541 --> 00:06:45,916
economy.
500
00:06:46,458 --> 00:06:46,791
That's going to
501
00:06:46,791 --> 00:06:47,500
affect a lot of
502
00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:47,708
different
503
00:06:47,708 --> 00:06:48,166
animals,
504
00:06:48,375 --> 00:06:49,000
including marine
505
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:49,625
mammals, sea
506
00:06:49,625 --> 00:06:50,458
turtles, sharks,
507
00:06:50,666 --> 00:06:51,666
tuna, all these
508
00:06:51,666 --> 00:06:52,125
different types
509
00:06:52,125 --> 00:06:52,583
of fish that are
510
00:06:52,583 --> 00:06:53,000
commercially
511
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:53,958
important, but
512
00:06:53,958 --> 00:06:54,958
also the food web
513
00:06:54,958 --> 00:06:55,416
in general
514
00:06:55,416 --> 00:06:56,458
because all these
515
00:06:56,458 --> 00:06:57,000
protections have
516
00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:57,708
been taken away.
517
00:06:58,333 --> 00:06:58,791
Ocean governance
518
00:06:58,791 --> 00:06:59,416
is not just
519
00:06:59,416 --> 00:07:00,541
ecological, it's
520
00:07:00,541 --> 00:07:00,916
geopolitical.
521
00:07:01,750 --> 00:07:02,916
So what does real
522
00:07:02,916 --> 00:07:04,125
success look like
523
00:07:04,125 --> 00:07:05,000
under the high
524
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,416
seas treaty? I
525
00:07:06,416 --> 00:07:06,708
think it would
526
00:07:06,708 --> 00:07:07,583
include rapid
527
00:07:07,583 --> 00:07:08,833
ratification by
528
00:07:08,833 --> 00:07:09,375
at least 60
529
00:07:09,375 --> 00:07:10,333
countries, which
530
00:07:10,333 --> 00:07:11,083
we've gotten. So
531
00:07:11,083 --> 00:07:11,208
that's great.
532
00:07:12,250 --> 00:07:13,041
Designation of
533
00:07:13,041 --> 00:07:13,458
large
534
00:07:13,458 --> 00:07:14,125
ecologically
535
00:07:14,125 --> 00:07:15,166
meaningful high
536
00:07:15,166 --> 00:07:16,375
seas and PAs,
537
00:07:17,041 --> 00:07:17,708
integration of
538
00:07:17,708 --> 00:07:18,166
satellite
539
00:07:18,166 --> 00:07:19,041
monitoring into
540
00:07:19,041 --> 00:07:19,416
compliance
541
00:07:19,416 --> 00:07:20,083
systems to help
542
00:07:20,083 --> 00:07:21,041
enforce those
543
00:07:21,041 --> 00:07:21,625
marine protected
544
00:07:21,625 --> 00:07:22,750
areas and
545
00:07:22,750 --> 00:07:23,250
transparent
546
00:07:23,250 --> 00:07:24,208
reporting and
547
00:07:24,208 --> 00:07:24,708
independent
548
00:07:24,708 --> 00:07:25,583
review mechanisms
549
00:07:25,583 --> 00:07:26,833
from NGOs like
550
00:07:26,833 --> 00:07:27,375
Global Fishing
551
00:07:27,375 --> 00:07:27,833
Watch and
552
00:07:27,833 --> 00:07:28,208
other places.
553
00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:29,625
And then strong
554
00:07:29,625 --> 00:07:30,708
coordination with
555
00:07:30,708 --> 00:07:31,083
regional
556
00:07:31,083 --> 00:07:31,500
fisheries
557
00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:32,000
management
558
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:32,625
organization,
559
00:07:33,041 --> 00:07:34,708
RFMOs, which will
560
00:07:34,708 --> 00:07:35,500
help and just
561
00:07:35,500 --> 00:07:36,458
coordinate all
562
00:07:36,458 --> 00:07:36,875
these different
563
00:07:36,875 --> 00:07:37,416
activities to
564
00:07:37,416 --> 00:07:37,958
know who's
565
00:07:37,958 --> 00:07:38,750
working and where
566
00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:39,750
and how they can
567
00:07:39,750 --> 00:07:41,125
enforce these
568
00:07:41,125 --> 00:07:41,666
activities.
569
00:07:42,041 --> 00:07:42,458
The treaty
570
00:07:42,458 --> 00:07:42,875
provides
571
00:07:42,875 --> 00:07:43,583
structure,
572
00:07:43,583 --> 00:07:44,041
implementation
573
00:07:44,041 --> 00:07:44,666
determines
574
00:07:44,666 --> 00:07:45,750
outcome. Now
575
00:07:45,750 --> 00:07:46,666
here's the risk
576
00:07:46,666 --> 00:07:48,125
when you put in
577
00:07:48,125 --> 00:07:49,291
the politics of
578
00:07:49,291 --> 00:07:49,625
it all, the
579
00:07:49,625 --> 00:07:49,958
political
580
00:07:49,958 --> 00:07:50,208
theater, if you will.
581
00:07:50,250 --> 00:07:52,083
So the risk is
582
00:07:52,083 --> 00:07:52,625
that countries
583
00:07:52,625 --> 00:07:53,291
ratify
584
00:07:53,291 --> 00:07:55,208
symbolically, but
585
00:07:55,208 --> 00:07:55,625
delay
586
00:07:55,625 --> 00:07:56,291
implementation.
587
00:07:56,666 --> 00:07:57,250
This happens a
588
00:07:57,250 --> 00:07:57,916
lot of times.
589
00:07:57,916 --> 00:07:58,125
You'll see
590
00:07:58,125 --> 00:07:58,708
countries just
591
00:07:58,708 --> 00:07:59,625
sign on, be like,
592
00:07:59,625 --> 00:08:00,458
hey, we signed
593
00:08:00,458 --> 00:08:01,083
on, we're down
594
00:08:01,083 --> 00:08:01,458
with this
595
00:08:01,458 --> 00:08:01,958
kind of thing.
596
00:08:01,958 --> 00:08:02,708
But then they
597
00:08:02,708 --> 00:08:03,208
don't do anything
598
00:08:03,208 --> 00:08:04,208
about it. MPAs
599
00:08:04,208 --> 00:08:04,791
are designated
600
00:08:04,791 --> 00:08:05,541
without strong
601
00:08:05,541 --> 00:08:06,125
restrictions.
602
00:08:06,750 --> 00:08:07,125
Enforcement
603
00:08:07,125 --> 00:08:08,083
remains weak,
604
00:08:08,083 --> 00:08:08,958
which the MPAs
605
00:08:08,958 --> 00:08:09,500
are worthless.
606
00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:10,125
They become paper
607
00:08:10,125 --> 00:08:11,250
parks and area
608
00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:12,000
targets are
609
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:12,208
emphasized over protection quality.
610
00:08:12,250 --> 00:08:14,166
So they're trying
611
00:08:14,166 --> 00:08:14,875
to look at how
612
00:08:14,875 --> 00:08:15,458
much coverage we
613
00:08:15,458 --> 00:08:16,125
can get, but
614
00:08:16,125 --> 00:08:16,666
doesn't mean we
615
00:08:16,666 --> 00:08:17,250
can enforce them
616
00:08:17,250 --> 00:08:18,041
or protect them.
617
00:08:18,041 --> 00:08:18,541
So they, again,
618
00:08:18,541 --> 00:08:19,166
they become paper
619
00:08:19,166 --> 00:08:20,041
parks, not
620
00:08:20,041 --> 00:08:20,875
quality parks.
621
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:22,500
We have seen this
622
00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:23,791
pattern before in
623
00:08:23,791 --> 00:08:24,958
coastal MPAs. So
624
00:08:24,958 --> 00:08:26,291
it's not new and
625
00:08:26,291 --> 00:08:26,875
then having it in
626
00:08:26,875 --> 00:08:27,458
the high seas
627
00:08:27,458 --> 00:08:28,041
makes it even
628
00:08:28,041 --> 00:08:28,916
more difficult
629
00:08:28,916 --> 00:08:29,541
because it's in
630
00:08:29,541 --> 00:08:30,500
remote areas that
631
00:08:30,500 --> 00:08:31,208
people are not generally around.
632
00:08:32,250 --> 00:08:33,541
The lesson from
633
00:08:33,541 --> 00:08:34,458
previous episodes
634
00:08:34,458 --> 00:08:35,250
still apply.
635
00:08:36,041 --> 00:08:36,500
Protection works
636
00:08:36,500 --> 00:08:37,541
when it's real.
637
00:08:38,125 --> 00:08:39,000
If you want clear
638
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:39,791
science based
639
00:08:39,791 --> 00:08:40,541
breakdowns of
640
00:08:40,541 --> 00:08:41,375
ocean policy
641
00:08:41,375 --> 00:08:42,250
every weekday,
642
00:08:42,708 --> 00:08:43,416
follow this show
643
00:08:43,416 --> 00:08:44,250
if you don't want
644
00:08:44,250 --> 00:08:44,958
to miss what
645
00:08:44,958 --> 00:08:45,791
comes next.
646
00:08:46,083 --> 00:08:46,750
Let's just frame
647
00:08:46,750 --> 00:08:47,583
it all for the
648
00:08:47,583 --> 00:08:49,000
final show. The
649
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,500
final thought on
650
00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:52,375
this episode. The
651
00:08:52,375 --> 00:08:52,875
high seas treaty
652
00:08:52,875 --> 00:08:54,250
is a milestone.
653
00:08:54,250 --> 00:08:54,916
There's no doubt
654
00:08:54,916 --> 00:08:55,791
about that. But
655
00:08:55,791 --> 00:08:56,708
milestones are
656
00:08:56,708 --> 00:08:57,208
not outcomes.
657
00:08:57,250 --> 00:08:58,416
For the first
658
00:08:58,416 --> 00:08:59,083
time, the global
659
00:08:59,083 --> 00:08:59,958
community has a
660
00:08:59,958 --> 00:09:01,041
legal pathway to
661
00:09:01,041 --> 00:09:01,458
protect
662
00:09:01,458 --> 00:09:02,375
biodiversity in
663
00:09:02,375 --> 00:09:02,750
international
664
00:09:02,750 --> 00:09:03,833
waters that
665
00:09:03,833 --> 00:09:04,541
actually matters.
666
00:09:05,166 --> 00:09:05,708
But here's the
667
00:09:05,708 --> 00:09:06,791
truth. The ocean
668
00:09:06,791 --> 00:09:07,666
does not respond
669
00:09:07,666 --> 00:09:09,166
to agreements. It
670
00:09:09,166 --> 00:09:09,666
responds to
671
00:09:09,666 --> 00:09:10,791
enforcement. It
672
00:09:10,791 --> 00:09:11,291
responds to
673
00:09:11,291 --> 00:09:12,375
compliance and it
674
00:09:12,375 --> 00:09:13,041
responds to
675
00:09:13,041 --> 00:09:13,541
reduced
676
00:09:13,541 --> 00:09:14,208
extraction.
677
00:09:14,250 --> 00:09:15,458
The treaty
678
00:09:15,458 --> 00:09:16,125
creates
679
00:09:16,125 --> 00:09:17,083
possibility.
680
00:09:17,916 --> 00:09:18,458
Political will
681
00:09:18,458 --> 00:09:19,083
determines the
682
00:09:19,083 --> 00:09:20,291
reality. The high
683
00:09:20,291 --> 00:09:20,833
seas have been
684
00:09:20,833 --> 00:09:21,583
largely invisible
685
00:09:21,583 --> 00:09:22,416
for centuries.
686
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:23,708
Now they are on a
687
00:09:23,708 --> 00:09:25,166
policy stage. The
688
00:09:25,166 --> 00:09:25,625
question is
689
00:09:25,625 --> 00:09:25,833
whether
690
00:09:25,833 --> 00:09:27,083
protection will
691
00:09:27,083 --> 00:09:28,416
move from paper
692
00:09:28,416 --> 00:09:29,708
to practice.
693
00:09:30,958 --> 00:09:31,416
I'd love to hear
694
00:09:31,416 --> 00:09:32,041
what you think
695
00:09:32,041 --> 00:09:32,500
about this
696
00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:33,458
episode. Hit me
697
00:09:33,458 --> 00:09:34,583
up if you want to
698
00:09:34,583 --> 00:09:35,375
give me your
699
00:09:35,375 --> 00:09:36,333
feedback. Let me
700
00:09:36,333 --> 00:09:36,833
know at
701
00:09:36,833 --> 00:09:38,041
speakupforblue.com
702
00:09:38,041 --> 00:09:38,541
forward slash
703
00:09:38,541 --> 00:09:39,625
feedback at
704
00:09:39,625 --> 00:09:41,125
speakupforblue.com
705
00:09:41,125 --> 00:09:41,916
forward slash
706
00:09:41,916 --> 00:09:42,208
feedback.
707
00:09:42,250 --> 00:09:43,500
You can let me
708
00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:44,333
know either by
709
00:09:44,333 --> 00:09:44,750
leaving a
710
00:09:44,750 --> 00:09:46,000
voicemail or you
711
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:46,375
can write
712
00:09:46,375 --> 00:09:47,250
something down. I
713
00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:47,791
would love to
714
00:09:47,791 --> 00:09:48,583
hear what you
715
00:09:48,583 --> 00:09:49,500
think because you
716
00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:50,000
know, this is the
717
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:50,458
beginning of a
718
00:09:50,458 --> 00:09:51,416
conversation and
719
00:09:51,416 --> 00:09:51,791
I want to
720
00:09:51,791 --> 00:09:52,500
continue it with
721
00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:53,333
you each and
722
00:09:53,333 --> 00:09:54,041
every one of you
723
00:09:54,041 --> 00:09:54,541
who are listening
724
00:09:54,541 --> 00:09:55,500
to this episode.
725
00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:55,916
I want to thank
726
00:09:55,916 --> 00:09:56,875
you so much for
727
00:09:56,875 --> 00:09:57,416
joining me on
728
00:09:57,416 --> 00:09:57,958
today's episode
729
00:09:57,958 --> 00:09:58,541
of the how to
730
00:09:58,541 --> 00:09:59,083
protect the ocean
731
00:09:59,083 --> 00:10:00,125
podcast. I'm your
732
00:10:00,125 --> 00:10:00,583
host, Andrew
733
00:10:00,583 --> 00:10:01,041
Lewin. Have a
734
00:10:01,041 --> 00:10:01,541
great day. We'll
735
00:10:01,541 --> 00:10:02,000
talk to you next
736
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,041
time and happy
737
00:10:03,041 --> 00:10:03,416
conservation.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,625
The high seas
2
00:00:00,625 --> 00:00:01,958
treaty, promise
3
00:00:01,958 --> 00:00:02,958
or political
4
00:00:02,958 --> 00:00:03,458
theater.
5
00:00:04,416 --> 00:00:05,166
Nearly half of
6
00:00:05,166 --> 00:00:05,708
the planet is
7
00:00:05,708 --> 00:00:07,166
ocean beyond the
8
00:00:07,166 --> 00:00:07,958
national borders.
9
00:00:08,458 --> 00:00:09,375
For decades, it
10
00:00:09,375 --> 00:00:09,833
has been governed
11
00:00:09,833 --> 00:00:11,000
by fragmented
12
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,291
rules and weak
13
00:00:12,291 --> 00:00:12,916
oversight.
14
00:00:13,541 --> 00:00:14,041
So when countries
15
00:00:14,041 --> 00:00:14,916
finally agreed to
16
00:00:14,916 --> 00:00:15,208
protect
17
00:00:15,208 --> 00:00:16,083
biodiversity on
18
00:00:16,083 --> 00:00:16,666
the high seas,
19
00:00:17,083 --> 00:00:17,500
it sounded
20
00:00:17,500 --> 00:00:18,291
historic.
21
00:00:18,875 --> 00:00:19,291
But will it
22
00:00:19,291 --> 00:00:20,083
change anything
23
00:00:20,083 --> 00:00:21,083
on the water?
24
00:00:21,625 --> 00:00:22,166
This is how to
25
00:00:22,166 --> 00:00:22,750
protect the ocean
26
00:00:22,750 --> 00:00:23,416
podcast, your
27
00:00:23,416 --> 00:00:24,083
weekly ocean
28
00:00:24,083 --> 00:00:24,750
news update.
29
00:00:25,083 --> 00:00:25,958
If you care about
30
00:00:25,958 --> 00:00:26,791
staying informed
31
00:00:26,791 --> 00:00:27,625
on the ocean
32
00:00:27,625 --> 00:00:28,708
every weekday,
33
00:00:28,750 --> 00:00:29,500
hit that follow
34
00:00:29,500 --> 00:00:30,291
button right now
35
00:00:30,291 --> 00:00:31,000
so you don't miss
36
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:31,916
tomorrow's story.
37
00:00:32,416 --> 00:00:32,833
The high seas
38
00:00:32,833 --> 00:00:33,750
treaty has
39
00:00:33,750 --> 00:00:34,125
created the first
40
00:00:34,125 --> 00:00:35,166
legal mechanism
41
00:00:35,166 --> 00:00:36,166
to establish
42
00:00:36,166 --> 00:00:36,916
marine protected
43
00:00:36,916 --> 00:00:37,583
areas in
44
00:00:37,583 --> 00:00:38,041
international
45
00:00:38,041 --> 00:00:38,625
waters.
46
00:00:38,916 --> 00:00:39,333
For the first
47
00:00:39,333 --> 00:00:39,791
time,
48
00:00:39,791 --> 00:00:40,125
biodiversity
49
00:00:40,125 --> 00:00:41,458
protection beyond
50
00:00:41,458 --> 00:00:41,916
national
51
00:00:41,916 --> 00:00:43,000
jurisdiction has
52
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:43,375
a global
53
00:00:43,375 --> 00:00:43,916
framework.
54
00:00:44,500 --> 00:00:44,833
That is
55
00:00:44,833 --> 00:00:45,458
significant.
56
00:00:46,500 --> 00:00:46,916
But the key
57
00:00:46,916 --> 00:00:47,750
question here is,
58
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:48,500
will the high
59
00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:49,083
seas treaty
60
00:00:49,083 --> 00:00:50,000
produce real
61
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,375
protection or
62
00:00:51,375 --> 00:00:52,333
remain largely
63
00:00:52,333 --> 00:00:53,166
symbolic like
64
00:00:53,166 --> 00:00:53,875
we've seen in
65
00:00:53,875 --> 00:00:54,583
many other
66
00:00:54,583 --> 00:00:54,958
agreements?
67
00:00:57,125 --> 00:00:57,500
Here's the
68
00:00:57,500 --> 00:00:58,416
problem with the
69
00:00:58,416 --> 00:00:59,333
high seas in
70
00:00:59,333 --> 00:01:00,000
general before
71
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:00,666
the high treaty
72
00:01:00,666 --> 00:01:01,083
was ratified.
73
00:01:02,250 --> 00:01:02,833
Nearly two thirds
74
00:01:02,833 --> 00:01:03,833
of the ocean lies
75
00:01:03,833 --> 00:01:04,750
beyond national
76
00:01:04,750 --> 00:01:05,375
jurisdiction.
77
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:06,625
These areas are
78
00:01:06,625 --> 00:01:07,333
often called
79
00:01:07,333 --> 00:01:08,458
areas beyond
80
00:01:08,458 --> 00:01:09,083
national
81
00:01:09,083 --> 00:01:09,708
jurisdiction
82
00:01:09,708 --> 00:01:11,166
or ABNG.
83
00:01:11,916 --> 00:01:12,416
Historically, we
84
00:01:12,416 --> 00:01:13,041
haven't been able
85
00:01:13,041 --> 00:01:14,500
to create binding
86
00:01:14,500 --> 00:01:16,083
MPAs beyond those
87
00:01:16,083 --> 00:01:16,958
national borders.
88
00:01:17,541 --> 00:01:17,916
Governance has
89
00:01:17,916 --> 00:01:18,625
been fragmented
90
00:01:18,625 --> 00:01:19,375
across fisheries
91
00:01:19,375 --> 00:01:20,541
borders, shipping
92
00:01:20,541 --> 00:01:21,708
rules and seabed
93
00:01:21,708 --> 00:01:22,000
mining
94
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:22,208
authorities.
95
00:01:22,250 --> 00:01:24,208
Just a lot of
96
00:01:24,208 --> 00:01:25,750
different types
97
00:01:25,750 --> 00:01:27,250
of legal
98
00:01:27,250 --> 00:01:28,041
frameworks that
99
00:01:28,041 --> 00:01:28,375
haven't
100
00:01:28,375 --> 00:01:29,166
really worked.
101
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:30,791
Industrial fishing fleets
102
00:01:30,791 --> 00:01:31,958
operate thousands
103
00:01:31,958 --> 00:01:32,541
of kilometers
104
00:01:32,541 --> 00:01:33,541
from home ports,
105
00:01:33,833 --> 00:01:34,333
are very
106
00:01:34,333 --> 00:01:35,000
difficult to
107
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,000
enforce and the
108
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:36,541
responsibility
109
00:01:36,541 --> 00:01:37,458
rests primarily
110
00:01:37,458 --> 00:01:37,958
on the
111
00:01:37,958 --> 00:01:38,625
flag states.
112
00:01:38,958 --> 00:01:39,208
If you don't know
113
00:01:39,208 --> 00:01:40,000
what a flag state
114
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:40,583
is, essentially
115
00:01:40,583 --> 00:01:41,833
every boat has to
116
00:01:41,833 --> 00:01:42,125
sail
117
00:01:42,125 --> 00:01:42,958
under a flag.
118
00:01:43,250 --> 00:01:43,625
So for instance,
119
00:01:43,625 --> 00:01:44,250
if I registered
120
00:01:44,250 --> 00:01:44,916
my boat in
121
00:01:44,916 --> 00:01:45,833
Canada, I had to
122
00:01:45,833 --> 00:01:46,375
fly the Canadian
123
00:01:46,375 --> 00:01:47,291
flag, I run under
124
00:01:47,291 --> 00:01:47,625
the Canadian
125
00:01:47,625 --> 00:01:48,625
flag, I follow
126
00:01:48,625 --> 00:01:48,833
the
127
00:01:48,833 --> 00:01:49,208
Canadian rules.
128
00:01:49,250 --> 00:01:50,500
But there are
129
00:01:50,500 --> 00:01:51,375
other countries
130
00:01:51,375 --> 00:01:52,041
who do not
131
00:01:52,041 --> 00:01:52,791
enforce those
132
00:01:52,791 --> 00:01:53,833
rules for their
133
00:01:53,833 --> 00:01:54,416
own country.
134
00:01:54,875 --> 00:01:55,333
Like a lot of
135
00:01:55,333 --> 00:01:56,041
people will fly
136
00:01:56,041 --> 00:01:56,666
under like a
137
00:01:56,666 --> 00:01:57,500
turkey flag and
138
00:01:57,500 --> 00:01:58,250
they'll go around
139
00:01:58,250 --> 00:01:59,333
and they'll go
140
00:01:59,333 --> 00:02:00,750
and fish wherever
141
00:02:00,750 --> 00:02:01,666
they want and
142
00:02:01,666 --> 00:02:02,083
they won't be
143
00:02:02,083 --> 00:02:02,958
beholden to the
144
00:02:02,958 --> 00:02:04,041
country turkey
145
00:02:04,041 --> 00:02:04,791
because they
146
00:02:04,791 --> 00:02:05,125
don't really
147
00:02:05,125 --> 00:02:05,625
enforce the
148
00:02:05,625 --> 00:02:05,875
borders.
149
00:02:05,875 --> 00:02:06,250
I'm just using
150
00:02:06,250 --> 00:02:06,750
this as an
151
00:02:06,750 --> 00:02:07,625
example. I'm not
152
00:02:07,625 --> 00:02:08,083
saying Turkey
153
00:02:08,083 --> 00:02:08,625
doesn't enforce
154
00:02:08,625 --> 00:02:09,041
the borders. I'm
155
00:02:09,041 --> 00:02:09,375
just kind of
156
00:02:09,375 --> 00:02:09,791
giving an
157
00:02:09,791 --> 00:02:10,625
example here.
158
00:02:11,625 --> 00:02:12,166
But when everyone
159
00:02:12,166 --> 00:02:13,000
is responsible,
160
00:02:13,791 --> 00:02:14,500
no one is really
161
00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:15,208
accountable. And that's a problem.
162
00:02:15,250 --> 00:02:18,291
So here's what
163
00:02:18,291 --> 00:02:18,791
the treaty
164
00:02:18,791 --> 00:02:19,875
actually is set
165
00:02:19,875 --> 00:02:21,125
up to do. The
166
00:02:21,125 --> 00:02:21,833
high seas treaty
167
00:02:21,833 --> 00:02:22,708
formerly known as
168
00:02:22,708 --> 00:02:23,875
the BB and J
169
00:02:23,875 --> 00:02:24,791
agreement, which
170
00:02:24,791 --> 00:02:25,500
stands for
171
00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:26,750
biodiversity of
172
00:02:26,750 --> 00:02:27,666
areas beyond
173
00:02:27,666 --> 00:02:28,125
national
174
00:02:28,125 --> 00:02:28,833
jurisdiction.
175
00:02:29,458 --> 00:02:30,333
It's under the UN
176
00:02:30,333 --> 00:02:31,291
Convention of the
177
00:02:31,291 --> 00:02:32,125
Law of the Sea
178
00:02:32,125 --> 00:02:32,875
and establishes
179
00:02:32,875 --> 00:02:34,541
this a process to
180
00:02:34,541 --> 00:02:35,875
designate MPAs in
181
00:02:35,875 --> 00:02:36,291
international
182
00:02:36,291 --> 00:02:36,958
waters.
183
00:02:37,333 --> 00:02:37,916
Environmental
184
00:02:37,916 --> 00:02:39,000
impact assessment
185
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,375
requirements for
186
00:02:40,375 --> 00:02:41,125
the high seas
187
00:02:41,125 --> 00:02:41,208
activities.
188
00:02:41,250 --> 00:02:43,416
Provisions for
189
00:02:43,416 --> 00:02:44,000
sharing marine
190
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:44,458
genetic
191
00:02:44,458 --> 00:02:45,208
resources,
192
00:02:45,916 --> 00:02:46,458
capacity building
193
00:02:46,458 --> 00:02:47,125
and technology
194
00:02:47,125 --> 00:02:47,750
transfer for
195
00:02:47,750 --> 00:02:48,541
developing state
196
00:02:48,541 --> 00:02:50,083
nations, a
197
00:02:50,083 --> 00:02:50,666
conference of
198
00:02:50,666 --> 00:02:51,583
parties structure
199
00:02:51,583 --> 00:02:52,750
to a conference
200
00:02:52,750 --> 00:02:53,208
of party
201
00:02:53,208 --> 00:02:53,708
structure.
202
00:02:53,708 --> 00:02:54,083
So a cop
203
00:02:54,083 --> 00:02:55,000
structure to
204
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:55,291
guide
205
00:02:55,291 --> 00:02:55,916
implementation.
206
00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:57,125
So we've seen cop
207
00:02:57,125 --> 00:02:57,916
structures in
208
00:02:57,916 --> 00:02:58,708
other agreements
209
00:02:58,708 --> 00:02:59,333
like the climate
210
00:02:59,333 --> 00:02:59,916
like the Paris
211
00:02:59,916 --> 00:03:00,583
Accord, the
212
00:03:00,583 --> 00:03:01,000
climate change
213
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:01,375
agreement.
214
00:03:02,333 --> 00:03:02,666
They don't really
215
00:03:02,666 --> 00:03:03,458
go very well.
216
00:03:03,458 --> 00:03:04,041
Same with oil and
217
00:03:04,041 --> 00:03:04,750
gas. Same with
218
00:03:04,750 --> 00:03:05,208
the plastics
219
00:03:05,208 --> 00:03:05,708
treaty. These
220
00:03:05,708 --> 00:03:06,500
cops do not
221
00:03:06,500 --> 00:03:07,291
really work very
222
00:03:07,291 --> 00:03:08,208
well. And that
223
00:03:08,208 --> 00:03:08,500
could be a
224
00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:08,791
problem. We'll
225
00:03:08,791 --> 00:03:09,208
talk about that in just a second.
226
00:03:09,250 --> 00:03:10,625
The treaty
227
00:03:10,625 --> 00:03:11,041
required
228
00:03:11,041 --> 00:03:11,875
ratification by
229
00:03:11,875 --> 00:03:12,791
60 countries to
230
00:03:12,791 --> 00:03:13,458
enter into force
231
00:03:13,458 --> 00:03:14,166
and it actually
232
00:03:14,166 --> 00:03:14,666
entered into
233
00:03:14,666 --> 00:03:15,416
force on January
234
00:03:15,416 --> 00:03:18,333
17th, 2026. It's
235
00:03:18,333 --> 00:03:19,000
not automatic
236
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,000
protection. It's
237
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,000
a framework for
238
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:21,625
potential
239
00:03:21,625 --> 00:03:22,375
protection.
240
00:03:23,208 --> 00:03:23,666
Now here's why
241
00:03:23,666 --> 00:03:24,125
the high seas
242
00:03:24,125 --> 00:03:25,125
treaty is
243
00:03:25,125 --> 00:03:25,583
historically
244
00:03:25,583 --> 00:03:26,875
significant. For
245
00:03:26,875 --> 00:03:27,375
decades
246
00:03:27,375 --> 00:03:28,291
conservationists
247
00:03:28,291 --> 00:03:29,125
argued that the
248
00:03:29,125 --> 00:03:29,500
high seas
249
00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:30,125
biodiversity was
250
00:03:30,125 --> 00:03:31,041
lacking a legal
251
00:03:31,041 --> 00:03:32,375
standing. This
252
00:03:32,375 --> 00:03:32,666
treaty
253
00:03:32,666 --> 00:03:33,208
changed that.
254
00:03:33,250 --> 00:03:35,208
It creates a
255
00:03:35,208 --> 00:03:35,750
legal authority
256
00:03:35,750 --> 00:03:36,333
to establish
257
00:03:36,333 --> 00:03:38,125
MPAs. Mechanisms
258
00:03:38,125 --> 00:03:38,708
to assess
259
00:03:38,708 --> 00:03:39,083
cumulative
260
00:03:39,083 --> 00:03:39,708
environmental
261
00:03:39,708 --> 00:03:40,916
impacts. So
262
00:03:40,916 --> 00:03:41,833
that's over a lot
263
00:03:41,833 --> 00:03:42,166
of different
264
00:03:42,166 --> 00:03:42,791
things. It could
265
00:03:42,791 --> 00:03:43,416
be shipping, it
266
00:03:43,416 --> 00:03:43,750
could be
267
00:03:43,750 --> 00:03:44,583
fisheries, it
268
00:03:44,583 --> 00:03:45,750
could be anything
269
00:03:45,750 --> 00:03:46,500
you really want.
270
00:03:46,708 --> 00:03:47,166
Marine pollution
271
00:03:47,166 --> 00:03:47,833
could be
272
00:03:47,833 --> 00:03:48,208
anything.
273
00:03:48,666 --> 00:03:49,166
And a governance
274
00:03:49,166 --> 00:03:49,750
structure that
275
00:03:49,750 --> 00:03:50,458
can align over
276
00:03:50,458 --> 00:03:51,708
time. This aligns
277
00:03:51,708 --> 00:03:52,125
with the global
278
00:03:52,125 --> 00:03:52,958
30 by 30
279
00:03:52,958 --> 00:03:53,416
biodiversity
280
00:03:53,416 --> 00:03:54,916
targets. And
281
00:03:54,916 --> 00:03:55,458
without a high
282
00:03:55,458 --> 00:03:56,166
seas framework,
283
00:03:56,166 --> 00:03:56,958
30% of global
284
00:03:56,958 --> 00:03:57,916
protection was
285
00:03:57,916 --> 00:03:58,750
mathematically
286
00:03:58,750 --> 00:03:59,208
impossible.
287
00:03:59,250 --> 00:04:00,708
But here's the
288
00:04:00,708 --> 00:04:01,208
problem. You can
289
00:04:01,208 --> 00:04:01,750
have a legal
290
00:04:01,750 --> 00:04:02,333
framework, but if
291
00:04:02,333 --> 00:04:02,791
you don't have
292
00:04:02,791 --> 00:04:03,416
enforcement, like
293
00:04:03,416 --> 00:04:03,875
we talked about
294
00:04:03,875 --> 00:04:04,416
in the last two
295
00:04:04,416 --> 00:04:05,916
days, we have a
296
00:04:05,916 --> 00:04:07,166
problem. It gets
297
00:04:07,166 --> 00:04:07,500
really
298
00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:08,708
complicated when
299
00:04:08,708 --> 00:04:09,583
we don't have
300
00:04:09,583 --> 00:04:10,125
enforcement.
301
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:11,500
There is no,
302
00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:12,625
there's no global
303
00:04:12,625 --> 00:04:13,208
Navy. Like
304
00:04:13,208 --> 00:04:14,041
there's no UN
305
00:04:14,041 --> 00:04:15,125
body that will go
306
00:04:15,125 --> 00:04:16,041
around and
307
00:04:16,041 --> 00:04:16,708
provide
308
00:04:16,708 --> 00:04:17,958
enforcement. Enforcement
309
00:04:17,958 --> 00:04:19,333
relies largely on
310
00:04:19,333 --> 00:04:19,916
the flag states
311
00:04:19,916 --> 00:04:20,541
policing their
312
00:04:20,541 --> 00:04:22,041
own vessels. Some
313
00:04:22,041 --> 00:04:22,708
distant water
314
00:04:22,708 --> 00:04:23,291
fleets operate
315
00:04:23,291 --> 00:04:24,208
under flags of
316
00:04:24,208 --> 00:04:24,666
convenience.
317
00:04:25,708 --> 00:04:26,083
So you'll have
318
00:04:26,083 --> 00:04:26,833
like some
319
00:04:26,833 --> 00:04:27,583
fisheries that
320
00:04:27,583 --> 00:04:28,416
will go some
321
00:04:28,416 --> 00:04:29,041
fisheries vessels
322
00:04:29,041 --> 00:04:29,958
or fleets that
323
00:04:29,958 --> 00:04:30,916
will go way, way
324
00:04:30,916 --> 00:04:31,500
far off their
325
00:04:31,500 --> 00:04:32,666
borders. Nobody
326
00:04:32,666 --> 00:04:33,333
can really see
327
00:04:33,333 --> 00:04:33,916
them except for
328
00:04:33,916 --> 00:04:34,458
satellites and
329
00:04:34,458 --> 00:04:34,916
maybe other
330
00:04:34,916 --> 00:04:35,750
countries and
331
00:04:35,750 --> 00:04:36,291
they'll be able
332
00:04:36,291 --> 00:04:36,833
to act the way
333
00:04:36,833 --> 00:04:37,541
they want, but
334
00:04:37,541 --> 00:04:38,375
they may not fly
335
00:04:38,375 --> 00:04:39,083
under the flag
336
00:04:39,083 --> 00:04:39,500
that they're
337
00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:40,208
actually, you
338
00:04:40,208 --> 00:04:41,083
know, stay in.
339
00:04:41,375 --> 00:04:41,750
They're just
340
00:04:41,750 --> 00:04:42,583
registered under
341
00:04:42,583 --> 00:04:43,250
a different flag
342
00:04:43,250 --> 00:04:44,375
that may not have
343
00:04:44,375 --> 00:04:45,250
the same legal
344
00:04:45,250 --> 00:04:46,375
frameworks or the
345
00:04:46,375 --> 00:04:47,208
same enforcement
346
00:04:47,208 --> 00:04:48,458
ability to
347
00:04:48,458 --> 00:04:49,333
prosecute these
348
00:04:49,333 --> 00:04:50,166
ships. So they
349
00:04:50,166 --> 00:04:50,833
just end up doing
350
00:04:50,833 --> 00:04:51,250
whatever they
351
00:04:51,250 --> 00:04:51,916
want and they get
352
00:04:51,916 --> 00:04:52,333
away with
353
00:04:52,333 --> 00:04:52,708
everything.
354
00:04:53,250 --> 00:04:53,833
And then of
355
00:04:53,833 --> 00:04:54,583
course monitoring
356
00:04:54,583 --> 00:04:55,458
of all these
357
00:04:55,458 --> 00:04:56,250
distance fleets
358
00:04:56,250 --> 00:04:57,875
really depends on
359
00:04:57,875 --> 00:04:58,333
satellite
360
00:04:58,333 --> 00:04:59,000
tracking and
361
00:04:59,000 --> 00:04:59,416
reporting
362
00:04:59,416 --> 00:05:01,208
compliance. If a
363
00:05:01,208 --> 00:05:01,791
country fails to
364
00:05:01,791 --> 00:05:02,166
enforce
365
00:05:02,166 --> 00:05:02,750
violations
366
00:05:02,750 --> 00:05:03,625
against their own
367
00:05:03,625 --> 00:05:04,166
vessels,
368
00:05:04,541 --> 00:05:04,916
accountability
369
00:05:04,916 --> 00:05:06,000
mechanisms are
370
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,291
limited. Legal
371
00:05:07,291 --> 00:05:07,916
authority does
372
00:05:07,916 --> 00:05:09,125
not guarantee
373
00:05:09,125 --> 00:05:09,958
compliance.
374
00:05:10,750 --> 00:05:11,250
Now, of course,
375
00:05:11,250 --> 00:05:11,541
with the high
376
00:05:11,541 --> 00:05:12,583
seas treaty, you
377
00:05:12,583 --> 00:05:13,583
know, from an
378
00:05:13,583 --> 00:05:14,000
ecological
379
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:14,875
standpoint, it
380
00:05:14,875 --> 00:05:15,500
makes sense,
381
00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:16,041
right? We see the
382
00:05:16,041 --> 00:05:16,625
high seas treaty
383
00:05:16,625 --> 00:05:17,250
and be like, this
384
00:05:17,250 --> 00:05:17,708
is going to
385
00:05:17,708 --> 00:05:18,041
protect
386
00:05:18,041 --> 00:05:18,541
biodiversity.
387
00:05:19,083 --> 00:05:19,333
We're going to
388
00:05:19,333 --> 00:05:20,250
get MPAs. We're
389
00:05:20,250 --> 00:05:20,625
going to get
390
00:05:20,625 --> 00:05:21,208
environmental
391
00:05:21,208 --> 00:05:21,666
impact
392
00:05:21,666 --> 00:05:22,458
assessments on a
393
00:05:22,458 --> 00:05:22,875
lot of different
394
00:05:22,875 --> 00:05:23,250
things that are
395
00:05:23,250 --> 00:05:24,333
happening along
396
00:05:24,333 --> 00:05:25,708
like in the high
397
00:05:25,708 --> 00:05:26,500
seas, like deep
398
00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:27,166
sea mining,
399
00:05:27,500 --> 00:05:28,666
fisheries, marine
400
00:05:28,666 --> 00:05:29,208
pollution, all
401
00:05:29,208 --> 00:05:29,666
these different
402
00:05:29,666 --> 00:05:30,125
types of things
403
00:05:30,125 --> 00:05:31,125
that could affect
404
00:05:31,125 --> 00:05:31,208
the ocean.
405
00:05:31,250 --> 00:05:31,958
So from an
406
00:05:31,958 --> 00:05:32,291
ecological
407
00:05:32,291 --> 00:05:33,333
standpoint as a
408
00:05:33,333 --> 00:05:34,333
scientist, as an
409
00:05:34,333 --> 00:05:34,958
ecologist, this
410
00:05:34,958 --> 00:05:35,541
is great. Like
411
00:05:35,541 --> 00:05:36,000
this is great
412
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,166
news. But then we
413
00:05:37,166 --> 00:05:37,708
don't really
414
00:05:37,708 --> 00:05:38,583
factor in
415
00:05:38,583 --> 00:05:39,208
industrial
416
00:05:39,208 --> 00:05:39,958
pressure or
417
00:05:39,958 --> 00:05:40,958
geopolitics,
418
00:05:40,958 --> 00:05:41,708
right? So the
419
00:05:41,708 --> 00:05:42,541
high seas are
420
00:05:42,541 --> 00:05:43,208
economically
421
00:05:43,208 --> 00:05:44,375
valuable. The
422
00:05:44,375 --> 00:05:45,000
industrial tuna
423
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,000
fleets operate
424
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,000
extensively in international
425
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,875
waters. Deep sea
426
00:05:48,875 --> 00:05:49,500
mining interests
427
00:05:49,500 --> 00:05:50,500
are expanding.
428
00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:50,833
We're seeing it
429
00:05:50,833 --> 00:05:51,500
in the US and
430
00:05:51,500 --> 00:05:52,041
we're seeing it
431
00:05:52,041 --> 00:05:52,833
in like places
432
00:05:52,833 --> 00:05:53,500
like Norway,
433
00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:54,000
although they've
434
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:54,625
banned it for a
435
00:05:54,625 --> 00:05:55,416
little while, but
436
00:05:55,416 --> 00:05:55,833
we're starting to
437
00:05:55,833 --> 00:05:56,541
see interest from
438
00:05:56,541 --> 00:05:56,916
a lot of
439
00:05:56,916 --> 00:05:57,125
different
440
00:05:57,125 --> 00:05:58,250
countries. Marine
441
00:05:58,250 --> 00:05:59,166
genetic resources
442
00:05:59,166 --> 00:05:59,750
are commercially
443
00:05:59,750 --> 00:06:00,208
valuable for medicine.
444
00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:02,416
Right? These are
445
00:06:02,416 --> 00:06:02,958
very important
446
00:06:02,958 --> 00:06:03,541
things or for
447
00:06:03,541 --> 00:06:04,000
even like
448
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:04,833
clothing and all
449
00:06:04,833 --> 00:06:05,250
these different
450
00:06:05,250 --> 00:06:06,250
types of things
451
00:06:06,250 --> 00:06:07,708
that we could use
452
00:06:07,708 --> 00:06:08,666
all this genetic
453
00:06:08,666 --> 00:06:10,000
material to make
454
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:10,916
our lives better
455
00:06:10,916 --> 00:06:12,541
and make a ton of
456
00:06:12,541 --> 00:06:14,458
money. Shipping
457
00:06:14,458 --> 00:06:14,916
lanes are
458
00:06:14,916 --> 00:06:15,708
critical for
459
00:06:15,708 --> 00:06:16,708
global trade, but
460
00:06:16,708 --> 00:06:17,500
shipping lanes,
461
00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:18,041
if they're not
462
00:06:18,041 --> 00:06:18,791
done properly,
463
00:06:18,791 --> 00:06:19,666
can get in the
464
00:06:19,666 --> 00:06:21,083
way of marine
465
00:06:21,083 --> 00:06:22,291
mammals like the
466
00:06:22,291 --> 00:06:22,916
North Atlantic
467
00:06:22,916 --> 00:06:23,458
right whale,
468
00:06:23,666 --> 00:06:23,875
which is
469
00:06:23,875 --> 00:06:24,083
critically
470
00:06:24,083 --> 00:06:24,208
endangered.
471
00:06:25,250 --> 00:06:25,708
And let's be
472
00:06:25,708 --> 00:06:26,083
honest, these
473
00:06:26,083 --> 00:06:26,583
whales don't
474
00:06:26,583 --> 00:06:27,166
necessarily see
475
00:06:27,166 --> 00:06:27,875
boundaries. So if
476
00:06:27,875 --> 00:06:29,125
they go beyond
477
00:06:29,125 --> 00:06:29,666
the 200 nautical
478
00:06:29,666 --> 00:06:30,625
miles of the US
479
00:06:30,625 --> 00:06:31,416
or even Canada,
480
00:06:31,875 --> 00:06:32,833
they are open and
481
00:06:32,833 --> 00:06:33,500
anything can hit
482
00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:34,333
it. Political
483
00:06:34,333 --> 00:06:35,333
resistance can
484
00:06:35,333 --> 00:06:35,916
emerge when
485
00:06:35,916 --> 00:06:36,416
protection
486
00:06:36,416 --> 00:06:37,500
intersects with
487
00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:38,000
economic
488
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:38,708
interest. We're
489
00:06:38,708 --> 00:06:39,250
seeing it now in
490
00:06:39,250 --> 00:06:40,125
the US where
491
00:06:40,125 --> 00:06:40,541
fisheries
492
00:06:40,541 --> 00:06:41,125
protections are
493
00:06:41,125 --> 00:06:41,958
being taken away
494
00:06:41,958 --> 00:06:43,083
because there's a
495
00:06:43,083 --> 00:06:43,375
political
496
00:06:43,375 --> 00:06:44,416
interest to open
497
00:06:44,416 --> 00:06:45,250
up the economy,
498
00:06:45,250 --> 00:06:45,541
the fisheries
499
00:06:45,541 --> 00:06:45,916
economy.
500
00:06:46,458 --> 00:06:46,791
That's going to
501
00:06:46,791 --> 00:06:47,500
affect a lot of
502
00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:47,708
different
503
00:06:47,708 --> 00:06:48,166
animals,
504
00:06:48,375 --> 00:06:49,000
including marine
505
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:49,625
mammals, sea
506
00:06:49,625 --> 00:06:50,458
turtles, sharks,
507
00:06:50,666 --> 00:06:51,666
tuna, all these
508
00:06:51,666 --> 00:06:52,125
different types
509
00:06:52,125 --> 00:06:52,583
of fish that are
510
00:06:52,583 --> 00:06:53,000
commercially
511
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:53,958
important, but
512
00:06:53,958 --> 00:06:54,958
also the food web
513
00:06:54,958 --> 00:06:55,416
in general
514
00:06:55,416 --> 00:06:56,458
because all these
515
00:06:56,458 --> 00:06:57,000
protections have
516
00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:57,708
been taken away.
517
00:06:58,333 --> 00:06:58,791
Ocean governance
518
00:06:58,791 --> 00:06:59,416
is not just
519
00:06:59,416 --> 00:07:00,541
ecological, it's
520
00:07:00,541 --> 00:07:00,916
geopolitical.
521
00:07:01,750 --> 00:07:02,916
So what does real
522
00:07:02,916 --> 00:07:04,125
success look like
523
00:07:04,125 --> 00:07:05,000
under the high
524
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,416
seas treaty? I
525
00:07:06,416 --> 00:07:06,708
think it would
526
00:07:06,708 --> 00:07:07,583
include rapid
527
00:07:07,583 --> 00:07:08,833
ratification by
528
00:07:08,833 --> 00:07:09,375
at least 60
529
00:07:09,375 --> 00:07:10,333
countries, which
530
00:07:10,333 --> 00:07:11,083
we've gotten. So
531
00:07:11,083 --> 00:07:11,208
that's great.
532
00:07:12,250 --> 00:07:13,041
Designation of
533
00:07:13,041 --> 00:07:13,458
large
534
00:07:13,458 --> 00:07:14,125
ecologically
535
00:07:14,125 --> 00:07:15,166
meaningful high
536
00:07:15,166 --> 00:07:16,375
seas and PAs,
537
00:07:17,041 --> 00:07:17,708
integration of
538
00:07:17,708 --> 00:07:18,166
satellite
539
00:07:18,166 --> 00:07:19,041
monitoring into
540
00:07:19,041 --> 00:07:19,416
compliance
541
00:07:19,416 --> 00:07:20,083
systems to help
542
00:07:20,083 --> 00:07:21,041
enforce those
543
00:07:21,041 --> 00:07:21,625
marine protected
544
00:07:21,625 --> 00:07:22,750
areas and
545
00:07:22,750 --> 00:07:23,250
transparent
546
00:07:23,250 --> 00:07:24,208
reporting and
547
00:07:24,208 --> 00:07:24,708
independent
548
00:07:24,708 --> 00:07:25,583
review mechanisms
549
00:07:25,583 --> 00:07:26,833
from NGOs like
550
00:07:26,833 --> 00:07:27,375
Global Fishing
551
00:07:27,375 --> 00:07:27,833
Watch and
552
00:07:27,833 --> 00:07:28,208
other places.
553
00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:29,625
And then strong
554
00:07:29,625 --> 00:07:30,708
coordination with
555
00:07:30,708 --> 00:07:31,083
regional
556
00:07:31,083 --> 00:07:31,500
fisheries
557
00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:32,000
management
558
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:32,625
organization,
559
00:07:33,041 --> 00:07:34,708
RFMOs, which will
560
00:07:34,708 --> 00:07:35,500
help and just
561
00:07:35,500 --> 00:07:36,458
coordinate all
562
00:07:36,458 --> 00:07:36,875
these different
563
00:07:36,875 --> 00:07:37,416
activities to
564
00:07:37,416 --> 00:07:37,958
know who's
565
00:07:37,958 --> 00:07:38,750
working and where
566
00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:39,750
and how they can
567
00:07:39,750 --> 00:07:41,125
enforce these
568
00:07:41,125 --> 00:07:41,666
activities.
569
00:07:42,041 --> 00:07:42,458
The treaty
570
00:07:42,458 --> 00:07:42,875
provides
571
00:07:42,875 --> 00:07:43,583
structure,
572
00:07:43,583 --> 00:07:44,041
implementation
573
00:07:44,041 --> 00:07:44,666
determines
574
00:07:44,666 --> 00:07:45,750
outcome. Now
575
00:07:45,750 --> 00:07:46,666
here's the risk
576
00:07:46,666 --> 00:07:48,125
when you put in
577
00:07:48,125 --> 00:07:49,291
the politics of
578
00:07:49,291 --> 00:07:49,625
it all, the
579
00:07:49,625 --> 00:07:49,958
political
580
00:07:49,958 --> 00:07:50,208
theater, if you will.
581
00:07:50,250 --> 00:07:52,083
So the risk is
582
00:07:52,083 --> 00:07:52,625
that countries
583
00:07:52,625 --> 00:07:53,291
ratify
584
00:07:53,291 --> 00:07:55,208
symbolically, but
585
00:07:55,208 --> 00:07:55,625
delay
586
00:07:55,625 --> 00:07:56,291
implementation.
587
00:07:56,666 --> 00:07:57,250
This happens a
588
00:07:57,250 --> 00:07:57,916
lot of times.
589
00:07:57,916 --> 00:07:58,125
You'll see
590
00:07:58,125 --> 00:07:58,708
countries just
591
00:07:58,708 --> 00:07:59,625
sign on, be like,
592
00:07:59,625 --> 00:08:00,458
hey, we signed
593
00:08:00,458 --> 00:08:01,083
on, we're down
594
00:08:01,083 --> 00:08:01,458
with this
595
00:08:01,458 --> 00:08:01,958
kind of thing.
596
00:08:01,958 --> 00:08:02,708
But then they
597
00:08:02,708 --> 00:08:03,208
don't do anything
598
00:08:03,208 --> 00:08:04,208
about it. MPAs
599
00:08:04,208 --> 00:08:04,791
are designated
600
00:08:04,791 --> 00:08:05,541
without strong
601
00:08:05,541 --> 00:08:06,125
restrictions.
602
00:08:06,750 --> 00:08:07,125
Enforcement
603
00:08:07,125 --> 00:08:08,083
remains weak,
604
00:08:08,083 --> 00:08:08,958
which the MPAs
605
00:08:08,958 --> 00:08:09,500
are worthless.
606
00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:10,125
They become paper
607
00:08:10,125 --> 00:08:11,250
parks and area
608
00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:12,000
targets are
609
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:12,208
emphasized over protection quality.
610
00:08:12,250 --> 00:08:14,166
So they're trying
611
00:08:14,166 --> 00:08:14,875
to look at how
612
00:08:14,875 --> 00:08:15,458
much coverage we
613
00:08:15,458 --> 00:08:16,125
can get, but
614
00:08:16,125 --> 00:08:16,666
doesn't mean we
615
00:08:16,666 --> 00:08:17,250
can enforce them
616
00:08:17,250 --> 00:08:18,041
or protect them.
617
00:08:18,041 --> 00:08:18,541
So they, again,
618
00:08:18,541 --> 00:08:19,166
they become paper
619
00:08:19,166 --> 00:08:20,041
parks, not
620
00:08:20,041 --> 00:08:20,875
quality parks.
621
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:22,500
We have seen this
622
00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:23,791
pattern before in
623
00:08:23,791 --> 00:08:24,958
coastal MPAs. So
624
00:08:24,958 --> 00:08:26,291
it's not new and
625
00:08:26,291 --> 00:08:26,875
then having it in
626
00:08:26,875 --> 00:08:27,458
the high seas
627
00:08:27,458 --> 00:08:28,041
makes it even
628
00:08:28,041 --> 00:08:28,916
more difficult
629
00:08:28,916 --> 00:08:29,541
because it's in
630
00:08:29,541 --> 00:08:30,500
remote areas that
631
00:08:30,500 --> 00:08:31,208
people are not generally around.
632
00:08:32,250 --> 00:08:33,541
The lesson from
633
00:08:33,541 --> 00:08:34,458
previous episodes
634
00:08:34,458 --> 00:08:35,250
still apply.
635
00:08:36,041 --> 00:08:36,500
Protection works
636
00:08:36,500 --> 00:08:37,541
when it's real.
637
00:08:38,125 --> 00:08:39,000
If you want clear
638
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:39,791
science based
639
00:08:39,791 --> 00:08:40,541
breakdowns of
640
00:08:40,541 --> 00:08:41,375
ocean policy
641
00:08:41,375 --> 00:08:42,250
every weekday,
642
00:08:42,708 --> 00:08:43,416
follow this show
643
00:08:43,416 --> 00:08:44,250
if you don't want
644
00:08:44,250 --> 00:08:44,958
to miss what
645
00:08:44,958 --> 00:08:45,791
comes next.
646
00:08:46,083 --> 00:08:46,750
Let's just frame
647
00:08:46,750 --> 00:08:47,583
it all for the
648
00:08:47,583 --> 00:08:49,000
final show. The
649
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,500
final thought on
650
00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:52,375
this episode. The
651
00:08:52,375 --> 00:08:52,875
high seas treaty
652
00:08:52,875 --> 00:08:54,250
is a milestone.
653
00:08:54,250 --> 00:08:54,916
There's no doubt
654
00:08:54,916 --> 00:08:55,791
about that. But
655
00:08:55,791 --> 00:08:56,708
milestones are
656
00:08:56,708 --> 00:08:57,208
not outcomes.
657
00:08:57,250 --> 00:08:58,416
For the first
658
00:08:58,416 --> 00:08:59,083
time, the global
659
00:08:59,083 --> 00:08:59,958
community has a
660
00:08:59,958 --> 00:09:01,041
legal pathway to
661
00:09:01,041 --> 00:09:01,458
protect
662
00:09:01,458 --> 00:09:02,375
biodiversity in
663
00:09:02,375 --> 00:09:02,750
international
664
00:09:02,750 --> 00:09:03,833
waters that
665
00:09:03,833 --> 00:09:04,541
actually matters.
666
00:09:05,166 --> 00:09:05,708
But here's the
667
00:09:05,708 --> 00:09:06,791
truth. The ocean
668
00:09:06,791 --> 00:09:07,666
does not respond
669
00:09:07,666 --> 00:09:09,166
to agreements. It
670
00:09:09,166 --> 00:09:09,666
responds to
671
00:09:09,666 --> 00:09:10,791
enforcement. It
672
00:09:10,791 --> 00:09:11,291
responds to
673
00:09:11,291 --> 00:09:12,375
compliance and it
674
00:09:12,375 --> 00:09:13,041
responds to
675
00:09:13,041 --> 00:09:13,541
reduced
676
00:09:13,541 --> 00:09:14,208
extraction.
677
00:09:14,250 --> 00:09:15,458
The treaty
678
00:09:15,458 --> 00:09:16,125
creates
679
00:09:16,125 --> 00:09:17,083
possibility.
680
00:09:17,916 --> 00:09:18,458
Political will
681
00:09:18,458 --> 00:09:19,083
determines the
682
00:09:19,083 --> 00:09:20,291
reality. The high
683
00:09:20,291 --> 00:09:20,833
seas have been
684
00:09:20,833 --> 00:09:21,583
largely invisible
685
00:09:21,583 --> 00:09:22,416
for centuries.
686
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:23,708
Now they are on a
687
00:09:23,708 --> 00:09:25,166
policy stage. The
688
00:09:25,166 --> 00:09:25,625
question is
689
00:09:25,625 --> 00:09:25,833
whether
690
00:09:25,833 --> 00:09:27,083
protection will
691
00:09:27,083 --> 00:09:28,416
move from paper
692
00:09:28,416 --> 00:09:29,708
to practice.
693
00:09:30,958 --> 00:09:31,416
I'd love to hear
694
00:09:31,416 --> 00:09:32,041
what you think
695
00:09:32,041 --> 00:09:32,500
about this
696
00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:33,458
episode. Hit me
697
00:09:33,458 --> 00:09:34,583
up if you want to
698
00:09:34,583 --> 00:09:35,375
give me your
699
00:09:35,375 --> 00:09:36,333
feedback. Let me
700
00:09:36,333 --> 00:09:36,833
know at
701
00:09:36,833 --> 00:09:38,041
speakupforblue.com
702
00:09:38,041 --> 00:09:38,541
forward slash
703
00:09:38,541 --> 00:09:39,625
feedback at
704
00:09:39,625 --> 00:09:41,125
speakupforblue.com
705
00:09:41,125 --> 00:09:41,916
forward slash
706
00:09:41,916 --> 00:09:42,208
feedback.
707
00:09:42,250 --> 00:09:43,500
You can let me
708
00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:44,333
know either by
709
00:09:44,333 --> 00:09:44,750
leaving a
710
00:09:44,750 --> 00:09:46,000
voicemail or you
711
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:46,375
can write
712
00:09:46,375 --> 00:09:47,250
something down. I
713
00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:47,791
would love to
714
00:09:47,791 --> 00:09:48,583
hear what you
715
00:09:48,583 --> 00:09:49,500
think because you
716
00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:50,000
know, this is the
717
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:50,458
beginning of a
718
00:09:50,458 --> 00:09:51,416
conversation and
719
00:09:51,416 --> 00:09:51,791
I want to
720
00:09:51,791 --> 00:09:52,500
continue it with
721
00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:53,333
you each and
722
00:09:53,333 --> 00:09:54,041
every one of you
723
00:09:54,041 --> 00:09:54,541
who are listening
724
00:09:54,541 --> 00:09:55,500
to this episode.
725
00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:55,916
I want to thank
726
00:09:55,916 --> 00:09:56,875
you so much for
727
00:09:56,875 --> 00:09:57,416
joining me on
728
00:09:57,416 --> 00:09:57,958
today's episode
729
00:09:57,958 --> 00:09:58,541
of the how to
730
00:09:58,541 --> 00:09:59,083
protect the ocean
731
00:09:59,083 --> 00:10:00,125
podcast. I'm your
732
00:10:00,125 --> 00:10:00,583
host, Andrew
733
00:10:00,583 --> 00:10:01,041
Lewin. Have a
734
00:10:01,041 --> 00:10:01,541
great day. We'll
735
00:10:01,541 --> 00:10:02,000
talk to you next
736
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,041
time and happy
737
00:10:03,041 --> 00:10:03,416
conservation.
