Why Facts Fail and Stories Save the Ocean, The Science of Changing Human Behavior

1
00:00:00,166 --> 00:00:02,375
Facts don't change behavior. Stories do.

2
00:00:03,125 --> 00:00:04,416
You can show someone a

3
00:00:04,416 --> 00:00:06,250
graph of declining fish stocks.

4
00:00:06,958 --> 00:00:08,291
And they might nod and be

5
00:00:08,291 --> 00:00:09,708
like, "Okay, that's great."

6
00:00:10,291 --> 00:00:11,250
But when you tell them

7
00:00:11,250 --> 00:00:12,708
a story about a fisher

8
00:00:12,791 --> 00:00:14,375
who can no longer feed their

9
00:00:14,375 --> 00:00:16,375
family, it suddenly matters.

10
00:00:17,166 --> 00:00:18,208
And if you want people

11
00:00:18,208 --> 00:00:19,875
to protect the ocean,

12
00:00:20,458 --> 00:00:23,750
we need to stop informing people and

13
00:00:23,750 --> 00:00:25,500
start moving people.

14
00:00:26,041 --> 00:00:27,833
If you care about protecting the oceans

15
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,333
and want to understand more about what

16
00:00:30,333 --> 00:00:33,166
actually works in protecting that ocean,

17
00:00:33,750 --> 00:00:34,833
follow How to Protect the Ocean podcast

18
00:00:34,833 --> 00:00:37,208
wherever you listen to podcasts

19
00:00:37,291 --> 00:00:39,666
and share the episode with someone who

20
00:00:39,666 --> 00:00:41,500
you think needs to hear it.

21
00:00:41,833 --> 00:00:43,083
This is the How to Protect the Ocean

22
00:00:43,083 --> 00:00:45,375
podcast where we turn ocean science

23
00:00:45,416 --> 00:00:48,625
into stories that actually drive action.

24
00:00:49,416 --> 00:00:51,708
For years, conservation messaging has

25
00:00:51,708 --> 00:00:54,583
focused on crisis, collapse, urgency.

26
00:00:55,291 --> 00:00:57,958
And those things are real. Like, let's be

27
00:00:57,958 --> 00:00:59,041
honest, they are real.

28
00:00:59,458 --> 00:01:00,166
We are seeing coral

29
00:01:00,166 --> 00:01:01,666
bleaching on global scales.

30
00:01:02,291 --> 00:01:04,416
We have fisheries pushed to their limits.

31
00:01:05,083 --> 00:01:07,958
Plastic pollution in every ocean basin at

32
00:01:07,958 --> 00:01:09,750
every depth of the ocean.

33
00:01:10,416 --> 00:01:12,291
But here's the problem. When people are

34
00:01:12,291 --> 00:01:14,208
constantly exposed to negative,

35
00:01:14,208 --> 00:01:15,291
overwhelming information,

36
00:01:15,875 --> 00:01:18,750
they don't act. Quick story. When I was

37
00:01:18,750 --> 00:01:20,416
first introduced to CrossFit,

38
00:01:20,416 --> 00:01:21,625
I joined a gym. And it was

39
00:01:21,625 --> 00:01:22,708
great. I met a lot of people.

40
00:01:23,208 --> 00:01:25,125
And you know, CrossFit is a bit of a cult

41
00:01:25,125 --> 00:01:26,708
in that you make friends and you go out

42
00:01:26,708 --> 00:01:27,375
and you eat and

43
00:01:27,375 --> 00:01:28,750
somewhat healthy or someone

44
00:01:28,750 --> 00:01:30,416
not healthy, depending on the gym and

45
00:01:30,416 --> 00:01:31,875
depending on if you're going

46
00:01:31,875 --> 00:01:33,291
out to blow off some steam.

47
00:01:33,666 --> 00:01:35,333
But we went out to a dinner and I was

48
00:01:35,333 --> 00:01:36,916
with a bunch of people in my and I was

49
00:01:36,916 --> 00:01:38,291
doing YouTube videos at the time.

50
00:01:38,291 --> 00:01:39,958
This is early on in my science

51
00:01:39,958 --> 00:01:44,125
communication career. And my gym owner at

52
00:01:44,125 --> 00:01:45,125
the time was like, hey,

53
00:01:45,125 --> 00:01:45,708
Andrew, I've been watching

54
00:01:45,708 --> 00:01:47,166
your videos. They're great.

55
00:01:47,166 --> 00:01:48,583
But I had to stop at watching them

56
00:01:48,583 --> 00:01:49,916
because they were depressing me because

57
00:01:49,916 --> 00:01:51,375
they just showed so much

58
00:01:51,375 --> 00:01:53,125
so much like doom and gloom.

59
00:01:53,208 --> 00:01:56,875
And that really made me think about how I

60
00:01:56,875 --> 00:01:59,541
need to change the way I tell the stories

61
00:01:59,541 --> 00:02:02,625
to provide optimism in the stories.

62
00:02:02,625 --> 00:02:04,000
Now, that's not just the first story.

63
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,500
When I went to the IMCC, International

64
00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:06,208
Marine Conservation

65
00:02:06,208 --> 00:02:09,291
Congress in 2014 in Newfoundland,

66
00:02:10,041 --> 00:02:10,958
there were a lot of people that were

67
00:02:10,958 --> 00:02:13,083
talking about optimism and how ocean

68
00:02:13,083 --> 00:02:14,916
optimism actually matters

69
00:02:14,916 --> 00:02:16,666
when it comes to conservation.

70
00:02:17,208 --> 00:02:18,708
So people, when they hear the doom and

71
00:02:18,708 --> 00:02:20,166
gloom, they disengage. People feel

72
00:02:20,166 --> 00:02:21,708
powerless. They feel guilty. They feel

73
00:02:21,708 --> 00:02:23,625
unsure where to start.

74
00:02:24,125 --> 00:02:26,000
So instead of acting, they just kind of

75
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,125
scroll past. So what actually works?

76
00:02:29,416 --> 00:02:31,125
Let's take a look at some examples.

77
00:02:31,708 --> 00:02:33,375
The United Nation Development Program

78
00:02:33,375 --> 00:02:36,166
tried something different. They created a

79
00:02:36,166 --> 00:02:38,458
campaign with a talking dinosaur.

80
00:02:38,833 --> 00:02:41,333
The message? You have a choice. Don't

81
00:02:41,333 --> 00:02:43,083
choose extinction. It was funny,

82
00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:45,166
unexpected and shareable.

83
00:02:45,541 --> 00:02:47,958
And it reached millions of people.

84
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,166
Organizations like Sea Legacy took

85
00:02:50,166 --> 00:02:52,083
another approach. They

86
00:02:52,083 --> 00:02:53,333
don't just show data.

87
00:02:53,958 --> 00:02:56,000
They show a whale looking directly at the

88
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,625
camera, a reef before and after

89
00:02:58,625 --> 00:03:00,625
bleaching, a shark as a

90
00:03:00,625 --> 00:03:02,625
vital part of the ecosystem.

91
00:03:03,500 --> 00:03:05,666
They create emotional connection to the

92
00:03:05,666 --> 00:03:08,000
ocean because people protect what they

93
00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:09,458
care about and they

94
00:03:09,458 --> 00:03:10,666
care about what they feel.

95
00:03:11,208 --> 00:03:14,125
In Randy Olson's book, Don't Be Such a

96
00:03:14,125 --> 00:03:15,833
Scientist, it's one of the first books I

97
00:03:15,833 --> 00:03:16,958
read on science communication.

98
00:03:17,708 --> 00:03:19,458
And when I read it, you know, he talked

99
00:03:19,458 --> 00:03:21,416
about how scientists talk to the brain

100
00:03:21,416 --> 00:03:23,708
and we talk with numbers and

101
00:03:23,708 --> 00:03:25,291
we talk with graphs and we say,

102
00:03:25,291 --> 00:03:27,458
hey, here's the logic behind what we're

103
00:03:27,458 --> 00:03:29,541
doing to the earth. If you if I give you

104
00:03:29,541 --> 00:03:31,416
that logic, if I speak to your brain,

105
00:03:31,958 --> 00:03:33,208
that logic will tell you,

106
00:03:33,208 --> 00:03:34,708
hey, we need to change our behavior. But

107
00:03:34,708 --> 00:03:36,125
that's not always the case. We know

108
00:03:36,125 --> 00:03:36,833
that's not the case.

109
00:03:37,416 --> 00:03:39,583
He says to speak to their gut because

110
00:03:39,583 --> 00:03:41,458
that's where the emotions are. They sit

111
00:03:41,458 --> 00:03:44,375
in your gut, whether it's funny, whether

112
00:03:44,375 --> 00:03:45,833
it's sad, whether it's anger.

113
00:03:46,125 --> 00:03:48,333
That's where your emotions sit. So speak

114
00:03:48,333 --> 00:03:50,625
to the gut and you will actually be able

115
00:03:50,625 --> 00:03:52,958
to move people to change their behavior.

116
00:03:53,625 --> 00:03:55,958
So let's just make this real. Here are

117
00:03:55,958 --> 00:03:57,666
two ways to communicate the same issue.

118
00:03:57,708 --> 00:04:01,041
Version one, 90% of large predatory fish

119
00:04:01,041 --> 00:04:04,125
are gone. Version two, a fisherman now

120
00:04:04,125 --> 00:04:07,333
travels twice as far for half the catch

121
00:04:07,333 --> 00:04:09,166
his father once brought home.

122
00:04:09,791 --> 00:04:13,083
Same issue, very different impact. If

123
00:04:13,083 --> 00:04:15,166
your message doesn't connect, it won't

124
00:04:15,166 --> 00:04:16,583
spread. And if it doesn't

125
00:04:16,583 --> 00:04:17,708
spread, it won't matter.

126
00:04:18,750 --> 00:04:21,125
Here's the truth. People are not lacking

127
00:04:21,125 --> 00:04:23,500
information. They are lacking connection.

128
00:04:24,375 --> 00:04:26,416
Storytelling is what turns

129
00:04:26,416 --> 00:04:28,291
science and understanding.

130
00:04:29,041 --> 00:04:31,541
Understanding into emotion, emotion into

131
00:04:31,541 --> 00:04:34,583
action. If you are communicating to the

132
00:04:34,583 --> 00:04:37,041
ocean, know your audience, speak their

133
00:04:37,041 --> 00:04:39,000
language and connect to their values.

134
00:04:39,708 --> 00:04:41,958
And most importantly, make the audience

135
00:04:41,958 --> 00:04:45,125
the hero of the story because people act

136
00:04:45,125 --> 00:04:47,916
when they see themselves in the solution.

137
00:04:49,125 --> 00:04:52,083
There are a lot of scientists and

138
00:04:52,083 --> 00:04:55,000
conservationists of all ages that are

139
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,708
using social media as a way of

140
00:04:57,708 --> 00:04:58,666
communicating the

141
00:04:58,666 --> 00:05:00,000
work that they are doing,

142
00:05:00,208 --> 00:05:02,291
whether it's different jobs, whether it's

143
00:05:02,291 --> 00:05:05,000
traveling and volunteering at different

144
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,166
organizations as they travel or whether

145
00:05:07,166 --> 00:05:08,333
they're showing what they're doing in

146
00:05:08,333 --> 00:05:09,375
their research and their graduate

147
00:05:09,375 --> 00:05:11,708
programs or even the research they do at

148
00:05:11,708 --> 00:05:13,250
their jobs, which is wonderful.

149
00:05:13,541 --> 00:05:15,541
You get great visuals on TikTok, on

150
00:05:15,541 --> 00:05:17,750
Instagram, on even YouTube if they're

151
00:05:17,750 --> 00:05:20,541
going that far. And it's a great way to

152
00:05:20,541 --> 00:05:22,250
show what marine biologists do.

153
00:05:22,708 --> 00:05:25,333
The key now for many of those people who

154
00:05:25,333 --> 00:05:28,166
are actually telling those stories is to

155
00:05:28,166 --> 00:05:30,833
really understand how storytelling works.

156
00:05:31,541 --> 00:05:33,583
You know, make sure, like I said before,

157
00:05:33,916 --> 00:05:36,708
you put the audience as the hero. What is

158
00:05:36,708 --> 00:05:38,458
their thing that they need to do? You are

159
00:05:38,458 --> 00:05:39,791
the guide. They are the hero.

160
00:05:40,250 --> 00:05:43,458
How are you going to help them make that

161
00:05:43,458 --> 00:05:45,375
change in behavior? What do they need to

162
00:05:45,375 --> 00:05:47,000
do? What's their problem? How do they

163
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:47,750
speak that problem?

164
00:05:47,750 --> 00:05:48,166
How do they communicate?

165
00:05:48,208 --> 00:05:50,291
How do they listen and what they need to

166
00:05:50,291 --> 00:05:51,625
do to change their behavior and what's

167
00:05:51,625 --> 00:05:53,250
going to help them change their behavior?

168
00:05:53,541 --> 00:05:55,125
What impact can they put on and what

169
00:05:55,125 --> 00:05:56,833
benefit can they get when

170
00:05:56,833 --> 00:05:58,250
they put on that impact?

171
00:05:58,875 --> 00:06:00,041
That's what we've been talking about

172
00:06:00,041 --> 00:06:00,791
today. We're going to be

173
00:06:00,791 --> 00:06:01,958
talking about it again.

174
00:06:03,041 --> 00:06:04,333
And there's a big announcement that I

175
00:06:04,333 --> 00:06:07,166
have soon enough that if you're watching

176
00:06:07,166 --> 00:06:08,708
on my socials, you'll probably see it.

177
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,750
But it's a lot of fun. I can't wait to

178
00:06:10,750 --> 00:06:12,041
share that with you. It's about

179
00:06:12,041 --> 00:06:14,000
storytelling. It's about science

180
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:14,666
communication. It's going to be great.

181
00:06:14,708 --> 00:06:19,083
But until then, if you are interested in

182
00:06:19,083 --> 00:06:21,541
listening about the ocean, about the

183
00:06:21,541 --> 00:06:23,708
solutions, about the problems and what

184
00:06:23,708 --> 00:06:25,958
solutions can scale to help, you know,

185
00:06:25,958 --> 00:06:26,958
find those solutions to

186
00:06:26,958 --> 00:06:28,375
help enact those solutions.

187
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,333
Why don't you just follow this podcast

188
00:06:30,333 --> 00:06:33,250
and don't miss the next episode because

189
00:06:33,250 --> 00:06:34,208
we're going to be talking

190
00:06:34,208 --> 00:06:36,166
to Peter Sinek from EarthX.

191
00:06:36,208 --> 00:06:37,875
He's the CEO of EarthX and he's going to

192
00:06:37,875 --> 00:06:39,625
be talking about a conference that

193
00:06:39,625 --> 00:06:41,333
they're putting on April 20th to the

194
00:06:41,333 --> 00:06:43,875
22nd, 2026 where they are going to be

195
00:06:43,875 --> 00:06:45,416
having 20 conferences in one.

196
00:06:45,416 --> 00:06:46,791
So if you know anything about the ocean

197
00:06:46,791 --> 00:06:48,541
or interested in any part of the ocean or

198
00:06:48,541 --> 00:06:50,833
earth and protection and conservation and

199
00:06:50,833 --> 00:06:52,583
business and solutions, you're going to

200
00:06:52,583 --> 00:06:54,000
want to attend this conference.

201
00:06:54,166 --> 00:06:55,500
I talk about the conference and the

202
00:06:55,500 --> 00:06:57,958
impact it's had on the past businesses.

203
00:06:57,958 --> 00:06:59,833
Some of them we talked about this week,

204
00:07:00,041 --> 00:07:00,708
but we're going to talk

205
00:07:00,708 --> 00:07:01,583
more about it tomorrow.

206
00:07:01,708 --> 00:07:05,125
So tune in and follow this podcast so

207
00:07:05,125 --> 00:07:06,750
that you can make sure you tune in.

208
00:07:06,958 --> 00:07:07,791
And if you have any questions or

209
00:07:07,791 --> 00:07:09,916
comments, let me know in the comments.

210
00:07:09,916 --> 00:07:10,958
If you are on Spotify,

211
00:07:10,958 --> 00:07:11,583
let me know in the comments.

212
00:07:11,958 --> 00:07:13,416
If you want to give me feedback, speak up

213
00:07:13,416 --> 00:07:15,666
for blue dot com forward slash feedback.

214
00:07:15,916 --> 00:07:17,333
I'm going to be putting out a survey soon

215
00:07:17,333 --> 00:07:19,208
for all those of you who are learning

216
00:07:19,208 --> 00:07:22,541
from this new structure that I have.

217
00:07:22,541 --> 00:07:24,666
So I'd love to hear from you on that.

218
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,083
Keep an eye out for that

219
00:07:26,083 --> 00:07:27,458
soon in a couple of weeks.

220
00:07:27,458 --> 00:07:28,166
I'll probably have it ready.

221
00:07:28,708 --> 00:07:29,750
Thank you so much for listening to this

222
00:07:29,750 --> 00:07:30,625
episode of the how to

223
00:07:30,625 --> 00:07:31,583
protect the ocean podcast.

224
00:07:31,708 --> 00:07:33,000
I'm your host, Andrew Lohan.

225
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:33,500
Have a great day.

226
00:07:33,500 --> 00:07:34,083
We'll talk to you next

227
00:07:34,083 --> 00:07:35,458
time and happy conservation.