The Ocean Career Path Nobody Talks About

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Well, hello out there and

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how to protect the ocean land.

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You're probably wondering

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why I am here and who I am.

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Well, I'm Dave Ebert and I'm typically

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Andrew Lewin's co-host

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for the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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But today there's been a friendly

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takeover that I've

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commandeered the show today to have

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on a special guest, someone who's never

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been a guest in the show

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before and that is Andrew

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Lewin.

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And Andrew is here to talk

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about a job he just obtained.

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He's going to be starting out here in the

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next week or two and kind of a follow the

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theme that we talk about in our on the

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Beyond Jaws podcast and a

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theme that Andrew's been

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talking about on Beyond on how to protect

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the ocean this week

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is is your career path.

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How do you go about finding jobs and find

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that job you really

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are passionate about and

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about and how you love that job.

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And so today I'm going to be the host and

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we're going to be

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talking to Andrew and he

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may or may not regret at the end of the

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show whether I take over.

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With that, let me introduce you my

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special guest, Andrew Lewin.

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Hello everybody.

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Thanks, Dave.

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Lovely to be here.

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So happy to be on this

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wonderful podcast that's been built.

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Yeah, we only have the biggest names in

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this podcast, as you know.

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So so so tell us like

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how so you got this.

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You have it.

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You got a new job now we're going to talk

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about before we talk about this job.

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Why don't you share with everyone?

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Like, how did you get it?

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You've been doing this sort of YouTube

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podcast stuff for 16 years now.

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16 years.

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Yeah.

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And so you were really kind of early on

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in the infancy of this whole genre.

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And why don't you share with everybody?

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How did you back going back to 2010?

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How did you see the writing on the wall

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for this whole area?

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Well, I'll be honest.

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I didn't see the writing on

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the wall right off the bat.

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You know, it I was more of a victim of

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circumstance in a way, you

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know, made some choices in my

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life that I'm still proud of today, but

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made some hard choices

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in my life about picking,

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you know, a job in marine biology or

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raising a family in the

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place that I grew up, which was

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not by the coast, which is hard to hold

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the marine biology job

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when you're not by an ocean

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coast. Right. I live by the Great Lakes,

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which is lovely to live by,

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but I live in Ontario, Canada.

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There's obviously no ocean around us. And

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so, you know, I, you know,

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I was talking to my wife of

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20 years now, but back then, you know, we

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were planning out our life

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and, and we were discussing

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where we were going to live and we wanted

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to raise our kids, you

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know, around, around our family.

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And I'll be honest, like I wasn't, I

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didn't really want that right off the

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bat. I wanted to like

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explore and go and raise our kids around,

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you know, around the

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world and wherever this marine

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biology place would take it. Because

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Dave, as you know, it could take you

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pretty much anywhere.

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And when you live in Canada too, I mean,

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you have three coasts to go

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to. There's also the option

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back then of the US, which was probably,

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you know, those are the, those are the

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geographies that were

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what I was looking at. But, you know,

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it's, these are difficult decisions to

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make. You have to make

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this personal decision. I knew it was

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going to be tough one. I

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chose, you know, I chose love and I

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chose family over, over the job, which

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again, I don't regret

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because we've had a fantastic life.

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It's really great to see, to raise kids

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around like grandparents and

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uncles and aunts and things

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like that. So I think that was, was

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really good. I didn't see

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right off the bat, but as I,

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as like my kids were growing up, they're

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now, you know, my daughters,

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my oldest daughter is now in

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university, you know, doing marine

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biology and or wildlife biology. And my

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youngest daughter is,

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you know, almost out of high school now.

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She's in, she's a junior, I

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guess is what you say. Is that

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great grade 11 junior? Yeah. She's in

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grade 11 going to grade 12

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next year. So, you know, they're

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older now, but I've been able to, you

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know, we've been able to

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raise our kids in a, in a familiar

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place and around family, which has been,

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which has been wonderful. But

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it also has been a challenge to

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be around the ocean or be working within

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the ocean during that time.

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And so in the early 2000s, you

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know, I did my master's, I came back

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here. I do my master's out in

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Halifax. I came back here and,

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you know, worked some, some private

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consulting jobs, which it

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paid the bills. I got to do some

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ocean stuff. I got to do some riverine

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stuff, some, some lake work, really kind

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of cool stuff I got to do. And,

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and that was a lot of fun, but it just

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didn't do everything I wanted to do. One,

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it wasn't in oceans.

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Two, all the time, it was mostly riverine

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and lakes. Two, it was, you

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know, it was, it was working for

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a lot of private consulting that I was

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doing was working for

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industry. And it's, it's good work

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because you're working for industry to

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make sure they're following regulations.

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But you're working with industries like

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oil and gas and like mining. And you

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know, eventually what's going to happen

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once they scout out sites, once they find

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hydrocarbon places where they can, where

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they can drill, eventually, it's going to

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happen where they're going to drill,

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they're going to ruin the environment at

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some point in a specific

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area, no matter what environmental

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experiments you do and environmental

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assessments, impact assessments, it's

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still going to be, it's taxing on the

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mind for someone who wants to protect the

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planet rather than harm it even more. So

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that was short lived for about four,

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maybe five or six years. And then, and

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then I started to, you know, I was, I was

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on my own for a little bit. And I, I've

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always had this entrepreneurial

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motivation in me. And so, like, even,

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even in my masters or my masters, I, I

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was big into the marine aquarium hobby, I

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was my geeky kind of hobby. And when I

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lived out in Halifax, it's a lot more

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expensive to have that hobby in Halifax,

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because the transportation coming to

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Toronto where I lived, it's a, it's a big

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hub, it's an international hub, one of

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the biggest airports in the world. But going to Halifax, it's an extra
flight, it's hard to get to. So not only that, but it's a big hub.

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And so I tried to do better. I could not

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do better. I did not have that business,

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uh, mindset at that point to do what I

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wanted to do. Uh, but regardless, I tried

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and there were, let's just say I was in a

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one bedroom apartment, uh, lived with a

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buddy of mine and my, my, my, uh, my girlfriend, my wife and my, my wife and my, my husband. And, uh, my wife and my wife and my wife and my wife and my wife, she was very, very busy.

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my girlfriend who is now my wife,

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and we had aquariums

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everywhere, all over the house.

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It was everywhere.

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Let's just say we never had to worry

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about moisturizing skin,

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because the heat and the salt in the air

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was quite wonderful.

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But anyway, that was my first

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entrepreneurial venture.

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And then afterwards, after I stopped

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consulting for a bit,

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I tried to do that on

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my own for a little bit,

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did a couple jobs with government,

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where I got to do some GIS

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and Marine Protected Area

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planning stuff for Department of

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Fisheries and Oceans

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here in Canada.

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And then I started to

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kind of get the bug of like,

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hey, I wanted to stay in

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touch with a lot of the people

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that I've stayed in

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touch with either online,

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like Twitter and

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Facebook were starting to come,

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and YouTube were starting to

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come bigger and bigger online.

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2008, 2009, podcasting

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was starting to come big,

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although I hadn't really heard of

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podcasting at that point.

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I didn't know exactly what it was.

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I just thought it was radio.

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That's basically what I thought.

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And then I get this bug

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in me where I'm just like,

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I'm going to start a blog.

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I'm just going to start

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a blog where every day

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I'm going to write about something,

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something in the ocean, an article,

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or something I have on mind.

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And then I realized

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like writing is not easy.

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It's hard and I'm not good

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at it and I don't like it.

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So that was a very quick kind of way of

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doing things, right?

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And yeah, sorry, go ahead.

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No, I want to ask you.

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So you're getting this interest and I can

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tell you for writing,

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I find there's two ways.

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Either people have a knack

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for writing or they don't.

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I didn't, but I learned to. Right.

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So writing, I just mentioned

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that you can learn to write.

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I couldn't write to save

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my life until grad school

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and then where you had

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to learn how to write.

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And then I found I really got into it.

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But yeah, it's something

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you got to learn to do.

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But while you had this

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passion to pursue this,

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obviously you had to pay

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some bills and keep going.

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And so this was really

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a side gig you had going

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with the writing and the

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blogs and all this stuff.

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It was literally a side hustle.

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So while I was off of

273
00:08:18,833 --> 00:08:20,291
work, I really started.

274
00:08:20,291 --> 00:08:21,500
I had young, like my kids

275
00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:22,708
were toddlers at the time.

276
00:08:23,041 --> 00:08:25,875
So I was busy, obviously being a dad,

277
00:08:26,375 --> 00:08:28,750
I was busy with my work.

278
00:08:29,583 --> 00:08:30,666
And then I was, and then so I

279
00:08:30,666 --> 00:08:31,875
got to do it during the day.

280
00:08:32,333 --> 00:08:33,250
And then finally I was

281
00:08:33,250 --> 00:08:33,958
like, this is ridiculous.

282
00:08:33,958 --> 00:08:34,708
I need to get a job

283
00:08:34,708 --> 00:08:35,583
because it's not paying

284
00:08:35,583 --> 00:08:36,333
any kind of bills.

285
00:08:36,541 --> 00:08:37,500
So I need to get a job.

286
00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:38,000
I actually was

287
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,208
fortunate enough to get a job

288
00:08:39,333 --> 00:08:41,500
for fisheries notions, Canada

289
00:08:41,500 --> 00:08:43,750
as an, it was an awesome job.

290
00:08:44,041 --> 00:08:46,250
Like I, my first job there was wonderful.

291
00:08:46,791 --> 00:08:48,375
I was working with a fellow by the name

292
00:08:48,375 --> 00:08:49,416
of Dr. Nick Mandrak,

293
00:08:49,666 --> 00:08:51,250
who's a, actually Dave, you'd get along

294
00:08:51,250 --> 00:08:52,208
really well with him.

295
00:08:52,208 --> 00:08:53,541
He's Nick Theologist as well.

296
00:08:54,041 --> 00:08:57,000
And he, do you, have you ever heard of

297
00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,250
Crossman and Crossman

298
00:08:58,250 --> 00:08:59,166
like the field

299
00:08:59,166 --> 00:09:00,500
identification book for fishes?

300
00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:01,708
Yeah, I have.

301
00:09:01,958 --> 00:09:03,666
Yeah. So that was his advisor.

302
00:09:04,041 --> 00:09:05,708
It was Crossman was his advisor.

303
00:09:05,708 --> 00:09:06,666
And he actually, there's a book called

304
00:09:06,666 --> 00:09:07,958
Crossman and Mandrak.

305
00:09:08,666 --> 00:09:09,833
Nick Mandrak was my, was

306
00:09:09,833 --> 00:09:11,458
my, my boss at the time.

307
00:09:11,625 --> 00:09:13,000
And I'll be honest, it was such a, it was

308
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:14,208
such a good gig

309
00:09:14,208 --> 00:09:15,625
because he, because he was

310
00:09:15,625 --> 00:09:17,291
in, in like, he was a researcher, but he

311
00:09:17,291 --> 00:09:18,125
was an administration,

312
00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:19,583
administration position

313
00:09:19,583 --> 00:09:20,458
where he had to do a lot of

314
00:09:20,458 --> 00:09:21,500
meetings across the border.

315
00:09:21,666 --> 00:09:23,125
Cause you know, Great Lakes is all about

316
00:09:23,125 --> 00:09:24,750
cross border relations

317
00:09:24,750 --> 00:09:25,625
and things like that.

318
00:09:25,625 --> 00:09:27,750
And science, we were on the science side.

319
00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:28,666
And so he had like an

320
00:09:28,666 --> 00:09:30,500
Excel sheet of projects to do.

321
00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:31,250
Like it was like a

322
00:09:31,250 --> 00:09:32,458
law, like 200 projects.

323
00:09:32,458 --> 00:09:34,000
Cause basically the public would ask us

324
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:34,708
questions and we would

325
00:09:34,708 --> 00:09:35,833
have to find out the answers.

326
00:09:36,625 --> 00:09:37,625
And so, so they were

327
00:09:37,625 --> 00:09:38,875
really cool, cool things.

328
00:09:39,125 --> 00:09:41,416
And so he would have me do all these

329
00:09:41,416 --> 00:09:43,166
projects and he goes, okay, I'm going to

330
00:09:43,166 --> 00:09:44,333
wait for two weeks in meetings.

331
00:09:44,833 --> 00:09:46,041
If you need anything, this is how long

332
00:09:46,041 --> 00:09:47,833
ago it was hit me up on my Blackberry.

333
00:09:47,833 --> 00:09:48,458
And I'm like, all

334
00:09:48,458 --> 00:09:49,333
right, cool. No problem.

335
00:09:49,666 --> 00:09:50,041
He goes, but if you

336
00:09:50,041 --> 00:09:51,041
don't leave, you just do it.

337
00:09:51,041 --> 00:09:51,625
If you have questions,

338
00:09:51,875 --> 00:09:53,083
you know, we can get to it.

339
00:09:53,375 --> 00:09:54,500
As long as you can move on to another

340
00:09:54,500 --> 00:09:55,500
project, I'll give you like

341
00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:56,833
six or seven projects at a time.

342
00:09:56,833 --> 00:09:57,708
And I'll get to work on it.

343
00:09:57,708 --> 00:09:58,375
But it was all science

344
00:09:58,375 --> 00:09:59,250
stuff. It was all stats.

345
00:09:59,500 --> 00:10:00,666
I was, I was a geek at that

346
00:10:00,666 --> 00:10:01,750
point. There was some GIS.

347
00:10:01,750 --> 00:10:02,250
We were doing like

348
00:10:02,250 --> 00:10:03,583
Asian carp risk assessments.

349
00:10:03,625 --> 00:10:06,166
We were doing, we were trying to find out

350
00:10:06,166 --> 00:10:10,958
how similar the fish assemblages were in

351
00:10:10,958 --> 00:10:12,083
each Lake over time.

352
00:10:12,083 --> 00:10:14,291
So we had data back to like the 1800s and

353
00:10:14,291 --> 00:10:16,416
then all the way to present day.

354
00:10:16,416 --> 00:10:17,333
So we were kind of looking, they

355
00:10:17,333 --> 00:10:18,916
obviously, they got similar as the lock

356
00:10:18,916 --> 00:10:20,541
system kind of got built in and stuff.

357
00:10:20,875 --> 00:10:21,500
And it was really

358
00:10:21,500 --> 00:10:22,916
cool, cool things, right?

359
00:10:22,916 --> 00:10:24,291
Everything was every day was different.

360
00:10:24,708 --> 00:10:26,833
So, and I really, really enjoyed that,

361
00:10:27,541 --> 00:10:28,750
which is kind of funny because it's going

362
00:10:28,750 --> 00:10:30,583
to come, come into play in a bit.

363
00:10:30,875 --> 00:10:33,333
But, but yeah. And then of course the

364
00:10:33,333 --> 00:10:35,125
government comes in and, you know, we had

365
00:10:35,125 --> 00:10:36,000
a conservative government.

366
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,250
So they wanted to cut a lot of stuff that

367
00:10:38,250 --> 00:10:39,750
was happening at fisheries notions for a

368
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:40,583
number of different reasons.

369
00:10:40,833 --> 00:10:42,500
So the position that I was about to move

370
00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:45,666
into firm permanently got cut because it

371
00:10:45,666 --> 00:10:47,083
was just a empty

372
00:10:47,083 --> 00:10:48,333
position on the org chart.

373
00:10:48,666 --> 00:10:50,291
And so instead of affecting somebody

374
00:10:50,291 --> 00:10:52,333
who's already in a position, they just

375
00:10:52,333 --> 00:10:53,416
cut that position out.

376
00:10:53,416 --> 00:10:55,333
So I was kind of stuck. I went into doing

377
00:10:55,333 --> 00:10:57,666
more database management and GIS

378
00:10:57,666 --> 00:10:58,583
management, which I learned a lot,

379
00:10:58,625 --> 00:11:01,000
but it wasn't, I wasn't having as much

380
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,458
fun. So eventually I left that position.

381
00:11:03,458 --> 00:11:06,166
But while this was happening, I was doing

382
00:11:06,166 --> 00:11:08,958
science communication on the side because

383
00:11:08,958 --> 00:11:11,166
that's what I was realized, even though I

384
00:11:11,166 --> 00:11:13,083
didn't like writing, I was

385
00:11:13,083 --> 00:11:14,458
doing like YouTube videos.

386
00:11:14,625 --> 00:11:16,416
And then I started, I started the

387
00:11:16,416 --> 00:11:19,291
podcast, but I was just like, this is

388
00:11:19,291 --> 00:11:22,375
what's fun, like, like telling stories,

389
00:11:22,375 --> 00:11:23,750
like looking at articles and telling

390
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:24,583
people about stories in the ocean.

391
00:11:24,625 --> 00:11:28,291
That's what I really enjoyed to do. And

392
00:11:28,291 --> 00:11:31,916
and over time, I started to realize that

393
00:11:31,916 --> 00:11:34,000
every time I was on a boat, like back in

394
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:34,958
the, like a couple of my

395
00:11:34,958 --> 00:11:36,083
jobs were just field work.

396
00:11:36,083 --> 00:11:38,958
Anytime I was on a boat, I love the

397
00:11:38,958 --> 00:11:40,625
times, you know, when you're like, you're

398
00:11:40,625 --> 00:11:42,666
not working outside, it's say the day's

399
00:11:42,666 --> 00:11:45,166
done, you're on a ship and you're just

400
00:11:45,166 --> 00:11:45,583
all around, you're all having dinner.

401
00:11:45,625 --> 00:11:49,291
And then you're just trading stories from

402
00:11:49,291 --> 00:11:51,458
the field. And, you know, I was on a

403
00:11:51,458 --> 00:11:52,916
boat. One of my first jobs was at

404
00:11:52,916 --> 00:11:54,916
Louisiana University's Marine

405
00:11:54,916 --> 00:11:56,500
Consortium down in Louisiana.

406
00:11:57,375 --> 00:11:59,250
And and we would have researchers come

407
00:11:59,250 --> 00:12:00,875
out. We were basically like a business

408
00:12:00,875 --> 00:12:02,833
and we would have researchers come out

409
00:12:02,833 --> 00:12:05,208
and do fieldwork and they would rent the

410
00:12:05,208 --> 00:12:06,083
ship and I would be the

411
00:12:06,083 --> 00:12:06,583
Marine technician on the ship.

412
00:12:06,625 --> 00:12:08,791
So I would get people from all over the

413
00:12:08,791 --> 00:12:10,750
States, all over the world, really. And

414
00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:12,166
we would be, I'd be listening to their

415
00:12:12,166 --> 00:12:14,250
stories. I was a young kid at that point,

416
00:12:14,250 --> 00:12:15,750
listening to their stories about, you

417
00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:17,500
know, how they got seasick somewhere or

418
00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:18,666
how, you know, like they lost

419
00:12:18,666 --> 00:12:20,875
instrumentation somewhere, like just fun,

420
00:12:20,875 --> 00:12:22,708
like weird kind of stories that would

421
00:12:22,708 --> 00:12:23,583
happen out in the field.

422
00:12:23,625 --> 00:12:25,375
And I and, you know, over as I started

423
00:12:25,375 --> 00:12:26,500
doing the science communications, like

424
00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:28,750
those are the stories that I love to

425
00:12:28,750 --> 00:12:30,500
hear, like, or even just like what we

426
00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:33,291
found here, we found this species or, you

427
00:12:33,291 --> 00:12:34,833
know, we found evidence of such and such.

428
00:12:34,833 --> 00:12:37,291
And it was just fun. Like, I always

429
00:12:37,291 --> 00:12:39,125
enjoyed those stories. I always sat there

430
00:12:39,125 --> 00:12:41,125
and listened as long as I could, even if

431
00:12:41,125 --> 00:12:42,750
I was feeling sleepy and I had to get up

432
00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:43,583
early in the next day.

433
00:12:44,375 --> 00:12:45,833
And that's what I was trying, like when I

434
00:12:45,833 --> 00:12:49,041
started the podcast, I started to try and

435
00:12:49,041 --> 00:12:51,666
recreate those, those feelings by trading

436
00:12:51,666 --> 00:12:53,291
stories with people, like having people

437
00:12:53,291 --> 00:12:56,000
come on the podcast and be like, tell me

438
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,166
about this project or tell me about what

439
00:12:58,166 --> 00:12:59,166
you're doing lately and

440
00:12:59,166 --> 00:12:59,583
share it with everybody else.

441
00:12:59,625 --> 00:13:01,458
Like, essentially, it's a conversation

442
00:13:01,458 --> 00:13:04,291
between the two of us, but everybody else

443
00:13:04,291 --> 00:13:05,666
is listening in like they're flying on

444
00:13:05,666 --> 00:13:06,833
the wall so they can get the same

445
00:13:06,833 --> 00:13:08,333
information and hopefully get the same

446
00:13:08,333 --> 00:13:09,333
feeling that I did

447
00:13:09,333 --> 00:13:10,875
doing that conversation.

448
00:13:11,541 --> 00:13:14,458
And I did, I did about, I don't know, 10

449
00:13:14,458 --> 00:13:16,500
to 12 of those episodes. There's

450
00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:18,291
interviews was once a week. And then I

451
00:13:18,291 --> 00:13:20,041
got the bug and I'm like, I upgraded my

452
00:13:20,041 --> 00:13:22,083
microphone and I'm like, I'm doing five

453
00:13:22,083 --> 00:13:23,583
days a week. And then after that, it was like, that was it for me.

454
00:13:23,625 --> 00:13:26,416
Now, did you have any like, okay,

455
00:13:26,583 --> 00:13:29,583
obviously this is the way early days of

456
00:13:29,583 --> 00:13:32,333
podcasts and YouTube. And so did you have

457
00:13:32,333 --> 00:13:36,875
any like, um, like technical skills or

458
00:13:36,875 --> 00:13:38,750
any, how did you figure out some of this?

459
00:13:39,041 --> 00:13:39,708
How did you figure

460
00:13:39,708 --> 00:13:40,833
out some of this stuff?

461
00:13:41,041 --> 00:13:42,708
Like with doing the, whether it was the

462
00:13:42,708 --> 00:13:45,375
YouTube or the podcast or the, how did

463
00:13:45,375 --> 00:13:46,291
you figure out some of

464
00:13:46,291 --> 00:13:46,583
this stuff early days?

465
00:13:47,625 --> 00:13:50,583
I didn't, it was lots of mistakes, right?

466
00:13:50,583 --> 00:13:52,166
So podcasting back then. So this is like,

467
00:13:52,166 --> 00:13:54,458
you were looking at, I started listening

468
00:13:54,458 --> 00:13:56,041
to somebody put me on the podcast. A

469
00:13:56,041 --> 00:13:57,291
friend of mine that used to play football

470
00:13:57,291 --> 00:14:00,416
with put me on the podcast 2012, 2013.

471
00:14:00,625 --> 00:14:02,125
I started to listen to a bunch about

472
00:14:02,125 --> 00:14:03,958
entrepreneurship and things like that.

473
00:14:03,958 --> 00:14:05,291
And because I want to be an entrepreneur

474
00:14:05,291 --> 00:14:07,375
and, and then I was like, oh, like

475
00:14:07,375 --> 00:14:08,125
there's nothing on

476
00:14:08,125 --> 00:14:10,583
oceans on this in the pockets.

477
00:14:10,708 --> 00:14:13,750
I think there was one, there was one show

478
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:15,666
that was on oceans and it, and it hadn't

479
00:14:15,666 --> 00:14:17,000
run in a while. They haven't published

480
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,500
episodes in a while. And so I first

481
00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:21,416
inquired about them. I was like, Hey, can

482
00:14:21,416 --> 00:14:22,458
I do this podcast? Well, you have to

483
00:14:22,458 --> 00:14:23,875
follow a certain, you have to follow this

484
00:14:23,875 --> 00:14:25,625
type of, cause it was like a, it was

485
00:14:25,625 --> 00:14:26,625
almost like a franchise.

486
00:14:26,625 --> 00:14:28,208
It was only like a network. And so they

487
00:14:28,208 --> 00:14:29,291
were just like, you had, it was a British

488
00:14:29,291 --> 00:14:31,083
one. You have to follow a specific way

489
00:14:31,083 --> 00:14:32,500
that they do things. And I was like, you

490
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:34,125
know what? Maybe that's not for me. I

491
00:14:34,125 --> 00:14:35,583
want to kind of do it my own style.

492
00:14:35,625 --> 00:14:39,000
Uh, and so I just, I kind of just said,

493
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,041
you know what? I'll do it myself. And

494
00:14:41,041 --> 00:14:43,333
that's when I started to look at how easy

495
00:14:43,333 --> 00:14:45,416
or difficult it was challenging. It was

496
00:14:45,416 --> 00:14:48,750
to do like to put a podcast up and it

497
00:14:48,750 --> 00:14:50,416
wasn't as easy as I thought it would be.

498
00:14:50,625 --> 00:14:53,208
You know, there's a lot of their hosting

499
00:14:53,208 --> 00:14:55,000
companies I had to find out about, and

500
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,958
then there was ways to do this and how do

501
00:14:56,958 --> 00:14:58,541
you record? Then you, how do you get it

502
00:14:58,541 --> 00:14:59,583
up there? I had to learn all of that.

503
00:14:59,625 --> 00:15:02,791
I had, you know, because I had the

504
00:15:02,791 --> 00:15:05,666
schooling and GIS and so I learned a lot

505
00:15:05,666 --> 00:15:07,041
of different software, like remote

506
00:15:07,041 --> 00:15:08,916
sensing software and GIS software,

507
00:15:09,333 --> 00:15:11,208
statistical software, I had a little bit

508
00:15:11,208 --> 00:15:12,958
of experience in learning new things.

509
00:15:13,458 --> 00:15:14,833
And so I just, it was just patients. It

510
00:15:14,833 --> 00:15:17,166
was a lot of time of like being on a

511
00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:19,500
computer for like four hours every night,

512
00:15:19,791 --> 00:15:21,833
you know, after the kids went to bed and

513
00:15:21,833 --> 00:15:23,291
just kind of like my eyes would come out

514
00:15:23,291 --> 00:15:25,666
and be all red, you know, just like, just

515
00:15:25,666 --> 00:15:27,291
from looking at a screen the whole time,

516
00:15:27,291 --> 00:15:28,208
trying to figure out

517
00:15:28,208 --> 00:15:28,583
how to do this stuff.

518
00:15:28,625 --> 00:15:31,625
And when I first did it, it was, it was

519
00:15:31,625 --> 00:15:34,791
so bad, Dave, like I, I joined a hosting

520
00:15:34,791 --> 00:15:37,958
company through another company. And then

521
00:15:37,958 --> 00:15:38,916
that company, so I'd

522
00:15:38,916 --> 00:15:40,583
upload it to that system.

523
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:43,708
And, and I started to publish and I was

524
00:15:43,708 --> 00:15:45,041
like, Oh, this is great. This is great.

525
00:15:45,041 --> 00:15:46,208
And of course, you know, I'm a numbers

526
00:15:46,208 --> 00:15:47,416
guy. So I always like to look at

527
00:15:47,416 --> 00:15:49,291
statistics and like what my numbers are

528
00:15:49,291 --> 00:15:50,583
the download numbers and stuff.

529
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,666
And there's, I didn't realize there's

530
00:15:52,666 --> 00:15:54,625
like a specific standard and, but there's

531
00:15:54,625 --> 00:15:57,166
also ways that like the numbers can be

532
00:15:57,166 --> 00:15:59,000
blown out of proportion. So there was one

533
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,041
day I woke up, I had published it at

534
00:16:01,041 --> 00:16:02,833
midnight, I woke up in the morning and I,

535
00:16:02,833 --> 00:16:03,625
the first thing I would

536
00:16:03,625 --> 00:16:04,791
do is check my downloads.

537
00:16:04,791 --> 00:16:06,250
I checked the downloads and normally I'm

538
00:16:06,250 --> 00:16:10,333
getting like 25, you know, 26, 27. This

539
00:16:10,333 --> 00:16:13,375
one, Dave, I was at 22,000, 22,000

540
00:16:13,375 --> 00:16:14,625
downloads. And I was like, Oh, this is

541
00:16:14,625 --> 00:16:17,500
amazing. Like, holy cow. Like, this is

542
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:18,583
awesome. Like I've made it.

543
00:16:18,625 --> 00:16:21,833
I just said, I go, I don't have to get a

544
00:16:21,833 --> 00:16:25,041
job anymore. I'm like, I am, I made it.

545
00:16:25,041 --> 00:16:26,458
This is awesome. This is only in the

546
00:16:26,458 --> 00:16:27,875
morning. Let's see what happens at night.

547
00:16:27,875 --> 00:16:29,208
Then I find out all of those were

548
00:16:29,208 --> 00:16:31,000
ridiculous numbers. They were bots. They

549
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,000
were this, they were that.

550
00:16:32,250 --> 00:16:33,958
And I was like, that sucks. And then the

551
00:16:33,958 --> 00:16:35,541
real hosting site, I went on to that

552
00:16:35,541 --> 00:16:38,500
hosting site and it was like 30. So I had

553
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:40,625
like five more than normal. It was just

554
00:16:40,625 --> 00:16:42,500
like, you know, then I realized that

555
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:44,000
there's a standard and stuff. So a lot of

556
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,458
it was fumbling through, you know,

557
00:16:46,458 --> 00:16:47,583
microphones and things like that.

558
00:16:47,625 --> 00:16:50,583
Like I had that Yeti microphone. If you

559
00:16:50,583 --> 00:16:51,916
probably can't see it, like if you're

560
00:16:51,916 --> 00:16:53,625
listening to this on the, on the audio

561
00:16:53,625 --> 00:16:55,375
podcast, but there's a Yeti microphone

562
00:16:55,375 --> 00:16:57,041
just in the back there and it worked

563
00:16:57,041 --> 00:16:58,500
well. I didn't all be honest. I probably

564
00:16:58,500 --> 00:17:00,458
didn't know exactly how to use it.

565
00:17:01,250 --> 00:17:03,541
But it echoed a lot because my room is,

566
00:17:03,875 --> 00:17:06,750
you know, is not insulated for sound. So

567
00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:08,916
it echoed quite a bit. And so the sound

568
00:17:08,916 --> 00:17:11,583
didn't sound as good as it does now. And

569
00:17:11,583 --> 00:17:13,875
so I just upgraded my microphone and I

570
00:17:13,875 --> 00:17:14,583
said, I'm going to spend like

571
00:17:14,583 --> 00:17:15,583
500 bucks on this microphone.

572
00:17:15,625 --> 00:17:18,208
So I don't have any worry whatsoever. And

573
00:17:18,208 --> 00:17:19,875
I basically looked at the microphones

574
00:17:19,875 --> 00:17:22,083
that radio stations that were publishing

575
00:17:22,083 --> 00:17:24,666
online were using. And I'm like, okay,

576
00:17:24,666 --> 00:17:26,208
I'm going to find out, okay, that's the

577
00:17:26,208 --> 00:17:28,000
sure SM seven B. All right. I'm going to

578
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,916
go look it up on Amazon and find out what

579
00:17:29,916 --> 00:17:30,583
it was and, and buy it.

580
00:17:30,958 --> 00:17:33,458
And I and I and I ended up actually

581
00:17:33,458 --> 00:17:35,208
before I bought it, I actually rented a

582
00:17:35,208 --> 00:17:38,375
bunch of microphones at a local music

583
00:17:38,375 --> 00:17:40,083
store that I have here called Long and

584
00:17:40,083 --> 00:17:42,666
McQuaid. And I could rent it for like 15

585
00:17:42,666 --> 00:17:44,333
bucks a week. I was like, this is great.

586
00:17:44,958 --> 00:17:47,625
So I would do that. And and and then I

587
00:17:47,625 --> 00:17:49,500
found out the sound was really good. So I

588
00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:51,250
was like, this is perfect. I'll just buy

589
00:17:51,250 --> 00:17:52,833
that microphone. And then whenever when

590
00:17:52,833 --> 00:17:56,125
then I got invited to do a conference at

591
00:17:56,125 --> 00:17:58,416
and I and I rented a bunch of microphones

592
00:17:58,416 --> 00:17:59,416
and I went over there and

593
00:17:59,416 --> 00:18:00,583
I had like two microphones.

594
00:18:00,625 --> 00:18:01,250
And I had like a lot of people I would

595
00:18:01,250 --> 00:18:04,791
interview people with. So, yeah, so it's

596
00:18:04,791 --> 00:18:07,416
like, and it's just like when you, when

597
00:18:07,416 --> 00:18:09,291
you look at these different things, a lot

598
00:18:09,291 --> 00:18:11,583
of times people would email me and be

599
00:18:11,583 --> 00:18:13,250
like, Hey, your sound

600
00:18:13,250 --> 00:18:14,500
is awful on this one.

601
00:18:14,875 --> 00:18:16,625
Like you got to figure, you got to figure

602
00:18:16,625 --> 00:18:18,500
your stuff out. I'm like, Oh, okay.

603
00:18:18,833 --> 00:18:21,041
Sorry. You know, and then you do it all

604
00:18:21,041 --> 00:18:22,541
over again. There were times like, I

605
00:18:22,541 --> 00:18:24,083
think my first episode I've recorded it.

606
00:18:24,083 --> 00:18:24,583
They were 45 minutes long.

607
00:18:24,625 --> 00:18:27,166
Like my first one of my first solo

608
00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:30,250
episodes. I think I rerecorded it three

609
00:18:30,250 --> 00:18:32,541
times because I kept losing it. I kept

610
00:18:32,541 --> 00:18:33,833
deleting it by accident. I couldn't

611
00:18:33,833 --> 00:18:35,291
figure out how to save it on the software

612
00:18:35,291 --> 00:18:37,375
that I was using, you know, and so like

613
00:18:37,375 --> 00:18:39,000
there were some frustrating times.

614
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,000
Like it wasn't easy. There was some times

615
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,833
where I was like, I spent while I spent

616
00:18:42,833 --> 00:18:45,333
three hours recording one one episode

617
00:18:45,333 --> 00:18:48,166
because I had to re do it every time. And

618
00:18:48,166 --> 00:18:52,041
and yeah, so I think you if you really

619
00:18:52,041 --> 00:18:53,583
want to do it, you figure it out. And that's that's just what I wanted to do.

620
00:18:53,625 --> 00:18:54,958
And that's that's just what I do. I

621
00:18:54,958 --> 00:18:56,583
fumble through things and I figure that

622
00:18:56,583 --> 00:19:00,250
out. Did you have any like like do any

623
00:19:00,250 --> 00:19:02,166
like, how did you figure out like how

624
00:19:02,166 --> 00:19:03,750
doing like hosting and

625
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:04,791
doing that type of stuff?

626
00:19:04,791 --> 00:19:07,500
How did you, you just kept doing it and

627
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:09,000
just figured just try to improve on what

628
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,625
you were doing? Yeah, I, the, you know, I

629
00:19:12,625 --> 00:19:15,000
was always a shy kid growing up. When I

630
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:15,958
got to university, I kind

631
00:19:15,958 --> 00:19:16,583
of came out of my shell.

632
00:19:16,625 --> 00:19:18,208
I forced myself to come out of my shell a

633
00:19:18,208 --> 00:19:20,500
little bit because I was like, I didn't,

634
00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:22,000
I didn't have a good time socially in

635
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,875
high school. Right. And so when I got to

636
00:19:23,875 --> 00:19:25,666
university, I say, I've got to, I got to

637
00:19:25,666 --> 00:19:26,916
be different. I got to really show my

638
00:19:26,916 --> 00:19:28,458
personality. And so I would just kind of

639
00:19:28,458 --> 00:19:29,666
put myself out there. And that's what I

640
00:19:29,666 --> 00:19:32,125
did here. And it sucked. Like it was hard

641
00:19:32,125 --> 00:19:34,416
at times, especially a science person,

642
00:19:34,416 --> 00:19:36,958
like a young science person. Yeah. I was

643
00:19:36,958 --> 00:19:39,833
like, what if someone like Dave Ebert

644
00:19:39,833 --> 00:19:42,166
hates what I say? You know, like, or what

645
00:19:42,166 --> 00:19:44,083
if I'm wrong and I get, I, you know, I

646
00:19:44,083 --> 00:19:45,458
get excommunicated from,

647
00:19:45,458 --> 00:19:45,583
from the science person.

648
00:19:45,958 --> 00:19:49,791
I was very, I was very concerned about

649
00:19:49,791 --> 00:19:52,375
that. But in terms of my style, it's

650
00:19:52,375 --> 00:19:55,291
always just been, I genuinely want to

651
00:19:55,291 --> 00:19:59,041
know about what I invited this person on

652
00:19:59,041 --> 00:20:00,958
for, right? About their project, about

653
00:20:00,958 --> 00:20:02,625
what they've done in their lives, what

654
00:20:02,625 --> 00:20:04,875
they've accomplished. I'm, I'm, I'm that

655
00:20:04,875 --> 00:20:07,000
passionate about science and ocean

656
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,125
science and ocean

657
00:20:08,125 --> 00:20:10,583
conservation that I want it up.

658
00:20:10,625 --> 00:20:12,500
Like the questions I'm asking are

659
00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:14,416
generally questions selfishly of what I

660
00:20:14,416 --> 00:20:17,250
want to know. So the style just came from

661
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:19,166
that. Okay. I mean, you come across very

662
00:20:19,166 --> 00:20:21,625
polished, you know, like I still kind of

663
00:20:21,625 --> 00:20:23,083
stumbling along trying to figure it out

664
00:20:23,083 --> 00:20:24,291
myself after five

665
00:20:24,291 --> 00:20:25,541
years. I appreciate that.

666
00:20:25,541 --> 00:20:27,000
You know, you come across very polished

667
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,666
and everything. And I just want to

668
00:20:28,666 --> 00:20:30,666
mention one caveat to people. It's funny.

669
00:20:30,666 --> 00:20:33,166
People that do these things like you and

670
00:20:33,166 --> 00:20:36,458
me, like I was terribly introverted up

671
00:20:36,458 --> 00:20:36,583
until graduate school.

672
00:20:36,625 --> 00:20:39,958
I mean, I was people that knew me back in

673
00:20:39,958 --> 00:20:41,500
high school and even in college

674
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:45,291
undergrad. I was just terribly quiet and

675
00:20:45,291 --> 00:20:47,375
what turned it around for me was when I

676
00:20:47,375 --> 00:20:49,583
was in doing my masters, one of my

677
00:20:49,583 --> 00:20:52,083
professors, you know, he said, you know,

678
00:20:52,083 --> 00:20:54,291
you got to be able to communicate to, you

679
00:20:54,291 --> 00:20:54,583
know, it was back in the eighties.

680
00:20:54,625 --> 00:20:57,541
You got to be able to talk to people. And

681
00:20:57,541 --> 00:20:59,250
I said, you know, and I did try to keep

682
00:20:59,250 --> 00:21:01,708
taking seminar classes. But what really

683
00:21:01,708 --> 00:21:03,875
turned it around for me was this

684
00:21:03,875 --> 00:21:06,500
professor goes like, okay, Dave, if I can

685
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:08,000
keep in mind, this is the 1980s.

686
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,666
But he said, yeah, if someone's going to

687
00:21:09,666 --> 00:21:11,541
pay you $100 to get up and talk to that

688
00:21:11,541 --> 00:21:12,583
audience, what are you going to do? I'm

689
00:21:12,583 --> 00:21:14,625
like, hundred bucks. Hell yeah, I'll get

690
00:21:14,625 --> 00:21:16,541
up there and talk. Just

691
00:21:16,541 --> 00:21:17,416
need the right motivation.

692
00:21:17,625 --> 00:21:19,208
Oh, man. And then it was just suddenly

693
00:21:19,208 --> 00:21:21,000
turned it because what he did was what he

694
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,916
did. I talk. What he did was it turned

695
00:21:22,916 --> 00:21:25,500
like this sort of introverted shy

696
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:27,500
experience like, wait, this is a job. I'm

697
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:29,791
getting paid. Damn it. Yeah. And so your

698
00:21:29,791 --> 00:21:31,791
mindset's totally different. Well, hell,

699
00:21:31,791 --> 00:21:33,625
I'm going to get up there and talk and do

700
00:21:33,625 --> 00:21:35,000
what I can do. And of course, now it's

701
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,750
completely gone to now I'm doing hosting

702
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:40,125
a show with you. And I'm interviewing you

703
00:21:40,125 --> 00:21:41,625
now for your own podcast. Now your

704
00:21:41,625 --> 00:21:44,375
interview. Yeah, exactly. So I thought it

705
00:21:44,375 --> 00:21:46,375
was good to share with people like young

706
00:21:46,375 --> 00:21:46,583
people that might be quiet.

707
00:21:46,625 --> 00:21:49,875
You know, it's the right motivation. I

708
00:21:49,875 --> 00:21:51,750
think there's also something to say to I

709
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:54,041
as I did my like someone who's done his

710
00:21:54,041 --> 00:21:55,583
masters before and obviously you've done

711
00:21:55,583 --> 00:21:57,500
your masters in your PhD and had to

712
00:21:57,500 --> 00:21:59,416
defend in front of probably the most

713
00:21:59,416 --> 00:22:01,458
intimidating people at the time that you

714
00:22:01,458 --> 00:22:03,875
have like your professors, you know,

715
00:22:03,875 --> 00:22:05,875
their colleagues, there's an external

716
00:22:05,875 --> 00:22:08,416
professor who comes in, you know, in

717
00:22:08,416 --> 00:22:10,208
person and they can they travel to come

718
00:22:10,208 --> 00:22:12,291
to see you being able to

719
00:22:12,291 --> 00:22:13,583
talk science in front of them.

720
00:22:13,625 --> 00:22:17,333
And, and, you know, answer their

721
00:22:17,333 --> 00:22:20,291
questions on the research that I that I

722
00:22:20,291 --> 00:22:22,458
was able to do. That's an intimidating

723
00:22:22,458 --> 00:22:24,750
moment. Like, you know, you're nervous

724
00:22:24,750 --> 00:22:26,166
during that moment because one, you don't

725
00:22:26,166 --> 00:22:27,083
want to look like a fool.

726
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:30,625
And two, you don't want you don't want

727
00:22:30,625 --> 00:22:32,083
them to be disappointed in you, right?

728
00:22:32,083 --> 00:22:34,000
There's a there's that mentorship kind of

729
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,416
thing. And so I think my supervisor said

730
00:22:38,416 --> 00:22:40,208
it best. John Roff. He said, you know,

731
00:22:40,375 --> 00:22:42,291
you know, this even better than they do.

732
00:22:42,291 --> 00:22:42,583
You know, this project better than they do.

733
00:22:42,625 --> 00:22:45,666
So they're just going to ask questions

734
00:22:45,666 --> 00:22:47,625
because they just want to know what you

735
00:22:47,625 --> 00:22:49,291
did. You know, so they're not they're not

736
00:22:49,291 --> 00:22:52,208
trying to fail you. They're just trying

737
00:22:52,208 --> 00:22:53,500
to understand what you did. And if you

738
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:55,208
can explain what you did, you're good,

739
00:22:55,583 --> 00:22:57,041
because you've already done all the work.

740
00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:58,833
So now you just have to talk about the

741
00:22:58,833 --> 00:23:00,625
stuff that you know best. And they're

742
00:23:00,625 --> 00:23:01,708
just trying to figure out what you've

743
00:23:01,708 --> 00:23:03,833
done. That's it. Right. You know, and

744
00:23:03,833 --> 00:23:04,833
then, of course, there's the qualifying

745
00:23:04,833 --> 00:23:06,208
exam where they're trying to like, see

746
00:23:06,208 --> 00:23:08,250
how much you know, and dive down deep

747
00:23:08,250 --> 00:23:11,000
where those I feel like those types of

748
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:11,583
tests those types of tests.

749
00:23:11,625 --> 00:23:15,541
Those types of of events kind of harden

750
00:23:15,541 --> 00:23:17,208
you a little bit as a scientist to be

751
00:23:17,208 --> 00:23:18,541
like, I'm just going to put myself out

752
00:23:18,541 --> 00:23:20,458
there and just see what happens. If I get

753
00:23:20,458 --> 00:23:22,583
critiqued, it's not personal. Sometimes

754
00:23:22,583 --> 00:23:24,416
it is, but you don't take it personally.

755
00:23:25,125 --> 00:23:26,708
And and you just do what you got to do.

756
00:23:26,708 --> 00:23:28,791
And I think trying to keep them I learned

757
00:23:28,791 --> 00:23:31,416
early on to try and keep the emotion out

758
00:23:31,416 --> 00:23:34,375
of being criticized. Then you realize not

759
00:23:34,375 --> 00:23:35,833
that many people are criticizing you not

760
00:23:35,833 --> 00:23:37,000
to your face anyway, they're not telling

761
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,166
me about it, you know, the odd person

762
00:23:39,166 --> 00:23:40,541
would be but everybody

763
00:23:40,541 --> 00:23:41,583
else is like, this is really

764
00:23:41,625 --> 00:23:43,208
informative. Like, I'm really enjoying

765
00:23:43,208 --> 00:23:45,333
the show. And so that made me that kind

766
00:23:45,333 --> 00:23:47,625
of boosted my confidence to I even had a

767
00:23:47,625 --> 00:23:49,541
professor like from Guelph where I did my

768
00:23:49,541 --> 00:23:52,000
undergrad, I went back to teach or I went

769
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,500
back to talk to people about careers. And

770
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:57,625
afterwards, he Professor Robinson, he

771
00:23:57,625 --> 00:23:59,500
came up to me and he said, How did you

772
00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:01,833
learn? Like to enter the way you

773
00:24:01,833 --> 00:24:03,250
interview? I'm like, What do you mean?

774
00:24:03,708 --> 00:24:05,541
Like the questions you ask? Like, how did

775
00:24:05,541 --> 00:24:06,875
you learn to come up with those? How did

776
00:24:06,875 --> 00:24:08,625
you learn to like ask such inquisitive

777
00:24:08,625 --> 00:24:10,333
questions? I'm like, I

778
00:24:10,333 --> 00:24:11,583
just turned up like, you

779
00:24:11,625 --> 00:24:13,416
taught me. And he's like, What do you

780
00:24:13,416 --> 00:24:15,500
mean? I'm like, my professors taught me.

781
00:24:16,375 --> 00:24:18,458
Like, I'm curious, like this is being a

782
00:24:18,458 --> 00:24:20,208
scientist, like you're asking questions

783
00:24:20,208 --> 00:24:22,416
because you generally want to know. I'm

784
00:24:22,416 --> 00:24:24,250
not I was never trained as a

785
00:24:24,250 --> 00:24:26,000
communicator. I was never I don't even

786
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,416
think I'm that good of a communicator.

787
00:24:27,416 --> 00:24:28,875
Like, like when I look at my critique

788
00:24:28,875 --> 00:24:31,125
myself, I'm just genuinely interested.

789
00:24:31,708 --> 00:24:33,250
And so I asked questions based on

790
00:24:33,250 --> 00:24:34,500
sometimes it's based on science,

791
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:35,958
sometimes it's based on conservation and

792
00:24:35,958 --> 00:24:37,750
all this stuff. Now I've done so many

793
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:39,958
interviews, and I have so many different

794
00:24:39,958 --> 00:24:40,958
perspectives and how

795
00:24:40,958 --> 00:24:41,583
things are done around

796
00:24:41,625 --> 00:24:44,125
the world, even doing beyond Jaws and

797
00:24:44,125 --> 00:24:46,375
really getting around the world. Now

798
00:24:46,375 --> 00:24:48,750
we're like, Okay, like, it's done this

799
00:24:48,750 --> 00:24:51,416
way in this country. Have you ever

800
00:24:51,416 --> 00:24:52,666
thought about doing it this way in our

801
00:24:52,666 --> 00:24:54,958
country or wherever, you know, it's it's

802
00:24:54,958 --> 00:24:56,583
it's it's now you're just pulling from

803
00:24:56,583 --> 00:24:58,833
other things that kind of hit you at the

804
00:24:58,833 --> 00:25:00,833
time, I kind of find to that, like, you

805
00:25:00,833 --> 00:25:02,250
kind of like there's that expression

806
00:25:02,250 --> 00:25:04,291
about, you know, you, if you don't learn

807
00:25:04,291 --> 00:25:06,125
from history, you're doomed to repeat it.

808
00:25:06,583 --> 00:25:08,666
Yeah, but also, I always had I always had

809
00:25:08,666 --> 00:25:10,541
an interest in history. And I always, I

810
00:25:10,541 --> 00:25:11,583
was very fortunate because my

811
00:25:11,625 --> 00:25:14,000
professors would tell stories about old

812
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,083
time ecologists, you know, dead

813
00:25:16,083 --> 00:25:17,666
ecologists, you know, long gone

814
00:25:17,666 --> 00:25:19,375
ecologists, but they would have a

815
00:25:19,375 --> 00:25:20,583
connection where they knew these people

816
00:25:20,583 --> 00:25:22,416
going back, you know, it'd be like your

817
00:25:22,416 --> 00:25:24,250
grandfather, great grandfather, and I

818
00:25:24,250 --> 00:25:25,958
just used to enjoy the stories here,

819
00:25:25,958 --> 00:25:27,375
like, what was this person really like?

820
00:25:28,041 --> 00:25:30,416
Yes. And what kind of motivated to do

821
00:25:30,416 --> 00:25:31,416
this stuff. So I always found that

822
00:25:31,416 --> 00:25:33,208
interesting. And then some of the

823
00:25:33,208 --> 00:25:35,708
journals I subscribe to, they run these

824
00:25:35,708 --> 00:25:37,666
stories on. Unfortunately, it's usually

825
00:25:37,666 --> 00:25:40,000
after they pass away. Yeah, the life

826
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,583
history. And I know this guy just wrote

827
00:25:41,625 --> 00:25:43,708
a I've written a few of these obituaries

828
00:25:43,708 --> 00:25:47,333
for Leonard Campano, my my advisor. And

829
00:25:47,333 --> 00:25:50,000
and I kind of felt like when this gets

830
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,625
into where I got to know you, we came up

831
00:25:52,625 --> 00:25:54,416
with this idea with the Beyond Jaws is

832
00:25:54,416 --> 00:25:56,625
really just to kind of tell get instead

833
00:25:56,625 --> 00:25:58,791
of me telling the story about, oh, yeah,

834
00:25:58,958 --> 00:26:00,708
so and so, you know, is to get the people

835
00:26:00,708 --> 00:26:03,000
actually on the podcast to tell their

836
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,375
story in their words.

837
00:26:04,625 --> 00:26:07,166
Yeah. And I think that's I think, again,

838
00:26:07,166 --> 00:26:09,041
young people, you know, it's I don't know

839
00:26:09,041 --> 00:26:10,208
how you feel, but I think it's great to

840
00:26:10,208 --> 00:26:13,875
be able to talk to someone who maybe you

841
00:26:13,875 --> 00:26:15,958
didn't know that person, but you're a

842
00:26:15,958 --> 00:26:18,041
connection or conduit to oil. I knew that

843
00:26:18,041 --> 00:26:19,583
person. And I went and

844
00:26:19,583 --> 00:26:21,541
talked to, you know, 100%.

845
00:26:21,625 --> 00:26:23,541
Like, there are people that I've looked

846
00:26:23,541 --> 00:26:26,500
up to my entire career who have recently

847
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:29,375
passed away and that have had an impact

848
00:26:29,375 --> 00:26:33,875
on my career. And and so as a podcaster,

849
00:26:34,125 --> 00:26:36,750
now I'm like, how do I memorialize what

850
00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:38,500
they did for me or what they did for

851
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:40,541
other people? And what type of person

852
00:26:40,541 --> 00:26:43,041
they are? You know, in the way I do is I

853
00:26:43,041 --> 00:26:44,250
we've got this, we've got these

854
00:26:44,250 --> 00:26:45,541
platforms, we got how to protect the

855
00:26:45,541 --> 00:26:47,375
ocean, we got Beyond Jaws, you know, we

856
00:26:47,375 --> 00:26:49,708
were able to speak to Jeff Carrier, you

857
00:26:49,708 --> 00:26:50,583
know, on on the podcast and people can see me.

858
00:26:50,625 --> 00:26:51,166
And I think that's fantastic. I think that's one thing that I've seen in the

859
00:26:51,166 --> 00:26:52,500
podcast. And people can see what he's

860
00:26:52,500 --> 00:26:55,291
like, you know, on the podcast to just be

861
00:26:55,291 --> 00:26:57,708
able to talk to him and and hear from and

862
00:26:57,708 --> 00:26:59,833
I thought, you know, once that we know

863
00:26:59,833 --> 00:27:02,625
unfortunately when he passed, as sad as

864
00:27:02,625 --> 00:27:04,000
we were, we're like, Hey, you know,

865
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,541
people get to know who he is through that

866
00:27:06,541 --> 00:27:08,708
podcast, you know. So like for people are

867
00:27:08,708 --> 00:27:09,291
like, Hey, have you ever

868
00:27:09,291 --> 00:27:10,375
heard of Jeff carrier? No.

869
00:27:17,625 --> 00:27:19,000
frame of reference, you know, we always

870
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,000
talk about in science

871
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,083
where it's like, you know,

872
00:27:21,083 --> 00:27:22,750
use the coral reef kind of reference

873
00:27:22,750 --> 00:27:23,958
where it's like coral

874
00:27:23,958 --> 00:27:25,208
reefs in the fifties were

875
00:27:25,208 --> 00:27:26,625
a lot different than what we see here.

876
00:27:26,625 --> 00:27:27,500
But you know, growing

877
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:29,291
up in, in, you know, the

878
00:27:29,291 --> 00:27:30,875
90s, the eighties, nineties and two

879
00:27:30,875 --> 00:27:32,541
thousands, we think of a

880
00:27:32,541 --> 00:27:33,875
different type of reef, right?

881
00:27:33,875 --> 00:27:35,666
But we think that is what the reference

882
00:27:35,666 --> 00:27:36,666
reef is instead of the

883
00:27:36,666 --> 00:27:37,875
fifties and sixties reefs,

884
00:27:37,875 --> 00:27:38,375
where they were

885
00:27:38,375 --> 00:27:39,500
probably a lot more abundant.

886
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:40,500
Well, you know, one of the people we had

887
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:41,000
on, you know, like

888
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,458
Eugenie Clark is very well

889
00:27:42,458 --> 00:27:44,500
known in the field. She has an award for

890
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:45,041
the, through the

891
00:27:45,041 --> 00:27:46,250
American labs that breaks aside.

892
00:27:46,458 --> 00:27:48,750
And I guarantee you most because I've

893
00:27:48,750 --> 00:27:49,625
asked all the ones we've

894
00:27:49,625 --> 00:27:50,291
had on there, they didn't

895
00:27:50,291 --> 00:27:52,291
know like someone like Gavin Naylor, who

896
00:27:52,291 --> 00:27:53,625
was on the podcast was

897
00:27:53,625 --> 00:27:55,416
a student of hers. Yeah.

898
00:27:55,416 --> 00:27:56,500
And if you go back and listen to the

899
00:27:56,500 --> 00:27:57,750
podcast, which was one of

900
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:59,416
the first ones we did with

901
00:27:59,416 --> 00:28:00,958
Gavin, he talks about what it was like to

902
00:28:00,958 --> 00:28:01,625
be a student of

903
00:28:01,625 --> 00:28:03,958
genies. And so like, and so

904
00:28:03,958 --> 00:28:05,333
I hear you can get a firsthand account.

905
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:07,416
You hear about Eugenie

906
00:28:07,416 --> 00:28:08,500
Clark's name a lot. Well,

907
00:28:09,166 --> 00:28:11,166
here you hear someone and get, you know,

908
00:28:11,166 --> 00:28:11,916
Gavin still goes to

909
00:28:11,916 --> 00:28:12,833
the meetings. If you see

910
00:28:12,833 --> 00:28:14,000
him at the meeting, I'm sure if you buy

911
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:14,583
him a beer, he'll tell

912
00:28:14,583 --> 00:28:15,541
you all about Jeanie Clark.

913
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:17,166
And for sure and everything. And of

914
00:28:17,166 --> 00:28:18,041
course there's been many

915
00:28:18,041 --> 00:28:19,000
others, but she's a, it

916
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,208
was a very prominent person. And, um, and

917
00:28:22,208 --> 00:28:23,666
I mean, I knew her as I

918
00:28:23,666 --> 00:28:24,333
knew her, but I wasn't

919
00:28:24,333 --> 00:28:26,000
a student of hers. Gavin actually was a

920
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,208
student of hers. And so

921
00:28:27,208 --> 00:28:28,625
you can talk about some of

922
00:28:28,625 --> 00:28:30,125
these people like in a first person,

923
00:28:30,125 --> 00:28:30,541
like, well, what would she

924
00:28:30,541 --> 00:28:31,750
like to have as an advisor?

925
00:28:32,416 --> 00:28:33,916
And so I think that's the kind of stuff I

926
00:28:33,916 --> 00:28:35,041
would think like, like

927
00:28:35,041 --> 00:28:36,166
with this year podcast

928
00:28:36,166 --> 00:28:38,541
and with the podcast we're doing with

929
00:28:38,541 --> 00:28:39,708
beyond jaws is sharing

930
00:28:39,708 --> 00:28:41,708
those stories of the people

931
00:28:41,791 --> 00:28:44,000
that have kind of come before us and even

932
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:44,750
some in the moment

933
00:28:44,750 --> 00:28:46,750
now. Um, well, and to be

934
00:28:46,750 --> 00:28:48,791
honest, that, that customer, like one of

935
00:28:48,791 --> 00:28:50,750
my next points that, that has kind of led

936
00:28:50,750 --> 00:28:53,166
me to where I am is, is meeting all these

937
00:28:53,166 --> 00:28:54,666
people. Yeah. You know,

938
00:28:54,666 --> 00:28:56,833
it's amazing the response

939
00:28:56,833 --> 00:28:59,666
you get when you send out an email or you

940
00:28:59,666 --> 00:29:00,708
send a message or a

941
00:29:00,708 --> 00:29:01,875
DM and be like, Hey, I

942
00:29:01,875 --> 00:29:03,791
would love to feature you on my podcast.

943
00:29:03,791 --> 00:29:05,166
I love your project. You

944
00:29:05,166 --> 00:29:05,916
know, I've been following

945
00:29:05,916 --> 00:29:08,166
your career for a while or just recently,

946
00:29:08,625 --> 00:29:10,333
I love what you're doing. I would love to

947
00:29:10,333 --> 00:29:12,291
promote you on the podcast and then you

948
00:29:12,291 --> 00:29:13,166
just have a fun

949
00:29:13,166 --> 00:29:15,166
conversation. And then it's

950
00:29:15,166 --> 00:29:16,833
not just as David, you know, cause this

951
00:29:16,833 --> 00:29:18,416
is how we met, not just

952
00:29:18,416 --> 00:29:20,291
the conversation on the

953
00:29:20,291 --> 00:29:22,333
podcast, I had the recording, it's the

954
00:29:22,333 --> 00:29:23,750
two hour conversation

955
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:26,000
after, you know, where you

956
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,000
really get to know the person where you

957
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,625
start to really dive

958
00:29:29,625 --> 00:29:31,041
into who that and, and you

959
00:29:31,041 --> 00:29:32,416
know, there's certain people I jive with

960
00:29:32,416 --> 00:29:33,166
really well and there's

961
00:29:33,166 --> 00:29:34,500
others that just, they have

962
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:36,333
to leave and it's, you know, then I thank

963
00:29:36,333 --> 00:29:37,083
them very much and

964
00:29:37,083 --> 00:29:37,916
it's great. And they have,

965
00:29:38,041 --> 00:29:39,833
they've done a great job on the interview

966
00:29:39,833 --> 00:29:41,041
and, and it's wonderful,

967
00:29:41,041 --> 00:29:42,250
but it's that connection

968
00:29:42,250 --> 00:29:45,000
that you make. And then I continue to

969
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,750
have them on my network

970
00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:48,666
on LinkedIn, on Instagram,

971
00:29:48,916 --> 00:29:51,000
on TikTok, we're talking, we're, we're

972
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:51,750
working on these

973
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:53,625
volunteer projects together or we

974
00:29:53,625 --> 00:29:55,625
do the podcast together, you know,

975
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,166
there's just so many ways

976
00:29:57,166 --> 00:29:58,791
that the opportunities have

977
00:29:58,791 --> 00:30:01,250
come just from having people on as a

978
00:30:01,250 --> 00:30:02,291
guest and doing them a

979
00:30:02,291 --> 00:30:03,250
favor and just being like,

980
00:30:03,250 --> 00:30:05,250
I really like the stuff you're doing. I

981
00:30:05,250 --> 00:30:06,125
would love it to, I'd

982
00:30:06,125 --> 00:30:06,958
love to share it with this

983
00:30:07,083 --> 00:30:09,125
little audience that I've built. Yeah. Oh

984
00:30:09,125 --> 00:30:11,291
yeah. Well, and I can attest that because

985
00:30:11,291 --> 00:30:12,541
because I had never, you're the first

986
00:30:12,541 --> 00:30:13,916
podcast they ever did. Yes.

987
00:30:15,208 --> 00:30:16,250
I think we spent two hours

988
00:30:16,250 --> 00:30:17,916
talking about sports. Then we did the

989
00:30:17,916 --> 00:30:18,791
podcast and we spent

990
00:30:18,791 --> 00:30:20,291
another two hours talking about

991
00:30:20,583 --> 00:30:22,916
sports. Yeah. And then, and then, yeah,

992
00:30:22,916 --> 00:30:23,750
then we ended up doing a

993
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:24,875
shark podcast and we should

994
00:30:24,875 --> 00:30:25,958
really probably be doing a sports

995
00:30:25,958 --> 00:30:28,333
podcast, but I'll be later

996
00:30:28,333 --> 00:30:29,416
on. We just run out of time.

997
00:30:29,625 --> 00:30:31,125
Dave, we just have no more times with all

998
00:30:31,125 --> 00:30:32,375
these podcasts. Oh, I

999
00:30:32,375 --> 00:30:33,750
know. I know. And I want to say

1000
00:30:33,958 --> 00:30:36,291
one thing and I can, Andrew mentioned

1001
00:30:36,291 --> 00:30:38,666
this, but I can't, I tell

1002
00:30:38,666 --> 00:30:40,250
you, this guy works his, his

1003
00:30:40,458 --> 00:30:42,708
tail off because I'll, I'm on the West

1004
00:30:42,708 --> 00:30:43,458
coast out here in

1005
00:30:43,458 --> 00:30:45,000
California and he's, he's in the East

1006
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,625
coast in Toronto and like, we'll, we'll

1007
00:30:47,625 --> 00:30:49,333
be what's happening. It'll be like nine

1008
00:30:49,333 --> 00:30:50,333
o'clock my time. And

1009
00:30:50,333 --> 00:30:51,708
he's, I think he's gone to bed. He's

1010
00:30:51,708 --> 00:30:53,000
still what's happening. Obviously I got

1011
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:53,875
to record a show here

1012
00:30:53,875 --> 00:30:55,500
there. And I'm thinking like, dude, you

1013
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:56,541
got to get up in a few hours

1014
00:30:56,541 --> 00:30:58,166
and actually go to work and

1015
00:30:58,166 --> 00:30:59,916
stuff. So he's, you, it takes a

1016
00:30:59,916 --> 00:31:01,916
dedication and a passion to be able to,

1017
00:31:01,916 --> 00:31:03,208
to do that kind of come

1018
00:31:03,208 --> 00:31:05,833
home from a day's job and then saddle up

1019
00:31:05,833 --> 00:31:07,166
and just do a whole spend the night

1020
00:31:07,166 --> 00:31:08,500
working on your podcasts

1021
00:31:08,666 --> 00:31:11,208
or podcasts that you're doing. Yeah.

1022
00:31:11,583 --> 00:31:14,500
Yeah. People underestimate how much work

1023
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:15,625
it is, you know, when,

1024
00:31:15,625 --> 00:31:16,958
when you're doing a podcast that

1025
00:31:16,958 --> 00:31:19,708
regularly, um, like I'm at, I'm over 1900

1026
00:31:19,708 --> 00:31:20,916
episodes to give people

1027
00:31:20,916 --> 00:31:22,416
context. I think I've mentioned on this

1028
00:31:22,416 --> 00:31:23,291
podcast before we've

1029
00:31:23,291 --> 00:31:24,583
mentioned on the other podcasts and

1030
00:31:24,583 --> 00:31:26,958
we're, I think over a hundred on like,

1031
00:31:26,958 --> 00:31:28,916
but we do once, once every two

1032
00:31:28,916 --> 00:31:30,083
weeks. So we're, we've done a

1033
00:31:30,083 --> 00:31:32,500
lot as well. Uh, not even counting how

1034
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:33,375
many interviews we've

1035
00:31:33,375 --> 00:31:34,375
actually done because there's

1036
00:31:34,375 --> 00:31:35,958
still the guitar fish wedge fish,

1037
00:31:35,958 --> 00:31:38,958
supposing them still getting over those

1038
00:31:38,958 --> 00:31:40,291
interviews for interviews

1039
00:31:40,416 --> 00:31:43,958
per episode. Yeah. Um, but, but you know,

1040
00:31:43,958 --> 00:31:45,750
it's, it's, you know, when

1041
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:47,166
people look at what's needed

1042
00:31:47,208 --> 00:31:50,083
to be done, there's, there's, you know,

1043
00:31:50,083 --> 00:31:51,291
especially if you have an interview,

1044
00:31:51,291 --> 00:31:52,666
there's, you reach out

1045
00:31:52,666 --> 00:31:55,708
to the person, person says, yes, you do

1046
00:31:55,708 --> 00:31:56,958
your research. You come up

1047
00:31:56,958 --> 00:31:59,041
with a set of questions. Um,

1048
00:31:59,500 --> 00:32:02,125
you do a little pre-interview right

1049
00:32:02,125 --> 00:32:04,041
before you record, you record the

1050
00:32:04,041 --> 00:32:04,833
interview that takes like

1051
00:32:04,833 --> 00:32:08,500
45 minutes to an hour. Uh, afterwards you

1052
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:10,083
talk maybe an hour or

1053
00:32:10,083 --> 00:32:12,208
two, um, you know, or a half

1054
00:32:12,208 --> 00:32:14,125
hour, depending on the person. Uh, and

1055
00:32:14,125 --> 00:32:16,875
then after that you have to process it,

1056
00:32:16,875 --> 00:32:18,291
you have to edit it,

1057
00:32:18,291 --> 00:32:20,041
you have to put it together, maybe do an

1058
00:32:20,041 --> 00:32:21,583
intro and outro to it. If it's a solo

1059
00:32:21,583 --> 00:32:22,291
show, you just do it

1060
00:32:22,291 --> 00:32:24,625
in one shot. Then you have to go through

1061
00:32:24,625 --> 00:32:25,500
the processing. You have to

1062
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:26,458
come up with a transcript.

1063
00:32:26,500 --> 00:32:28,791
You have to do the show notes, the blog

1064
00:32:28,791 --> 00:32:30,791
posts, you have to do the social media

1065
00:32:30,791 --> 00:32:32,500
posts, a newsletter.

1066
00:32:33,208 --> 00:32:35,791
Um, you know, there could now with the

1067
00:32:35,791 --> 00:32:37,041
YouTube component and

1068
00:32:37,041 --> 00:32:38,958
everything, it, it takes hours,

1069
00:32:39,208 --> 00:32:41,708
you know, now obviously I do, I do it on

1070
00:32:41,708 --> 00:32:44,041
my own. I do have an editor now because

1071
00:32:44,041 --> 00:32:45,541
of the, the, the videos.

1072
00:32:46,083 --> 00:32:49,791
Um, but you know, it's, it's allows like,

1073
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,166
and I use a lot of AI to, to help me

1074
00:32:52,166 --> 00:32:53,000
with, with processing

1075
00:32:53,250 --> 00:32:56,125
everything, uh, to give time back. You

1076
00:32:56,125 --> 00:32:58,083
know, I, I want like, I'm at a point now

1077
00:32:58,083 --> 00:32:59,916
in my life where I want time back

1078
00:33:00,666 --> 00:33:02,875
in my evenings, you know, so I can relax.

1079
00:33:02,875 --> 00:33:05,083
I'm getting older. I'm almost 48. You

1080
00:33:05,083 --> 00:33:07,208
know, it's, I want my time back. I know,

1081
00:33:07,208 --> 00:33:08,916
I know, I know, I know.

1082
00:33:08,916 --> 00:33:11,041
I'm not as old as you. I understand. Go

1083
00:33:11,041 --> 00:33:13,125
there, man. But you, but, but

1084
00:33:13,125 --> 00:33:14,000
Dave, I'll tell you something.

1085
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,125
Like you work your butt off. I, I'll give

1086
00:33:16,125 --> 00:33:18,416
you that, but you also, you enjoy your

1087
00:33:18,416 --> 00:33:20,333
time with your family, your folks, you

1088
00:33:20,333 --> 00:33:21,333
enjoy your time swimming.

1089
00:33:21,375 --> 00:33:23,916
You enjoy, like as I think at sometimes

1090
00:33:23,916 --> 00:33:27,416
as, as marine biologists, uh, we tend to

1091
00:33:27,416 --> 00:33:30,375
burn ourselves out a lot by doing all

1092
00:33:30,375 --> 00:33:32,291
these passion projects or doing stuff for

1093
00:33:32,291 --> 00:33:34,458
free or for you, Dave, like, you know,

1094
00:33:34,458 --> 00:33:35,708
people email you all the time.

1095
00:33:35,708 --> 00:33:37,125
Like, Hey, I found this, like, can you

1096
00:33:37,125 --> 00:33:39,125
help me identify it? That kind of stuff.

1097
00:33:39,125 --> 00:33:41,041
Um, you know, other projects that you do

1098
00:33:41,041 --> 00:33:42,208
workshops and everything.

1099
00:33:42,541 --> 00:33:43,875
I know that of course the travel. So it's

1100
00:33:43,875 --> 00:33:45,541
like when we have the downtime, I've

1101
00:33:45,541 --> 00:33:47,291
realized, you know, at my age that

1102
00:33:47,291 --> 00:33:48,500
downtime is really important.

1103
00:33:48,750 --> 00:33:51,541
Um, and, and, you know, I, I tell that to

1104
00:33:51,541 --> 00:33:52,750
young marine biologists too. It's like,

1105
00:33:52,750 --> 00:33:54,583
yeah, get your work done if you want, you

1106
00:33:54,583 --> 00:33:56,125
know, build your skills, do that what you

1107
00:33:56,125 --> 00:33:57,583
need, but also don't forget

1108
00:33:57,583 --> 00:33:59,916
to enjoy, enjoy yourself too.

1109
00:33:59,916 --> 00:34:01,083
Like having some downtime.

1110
00:34:01,083 --> 00:34:02,500
If I was gonna say one other thing I'd

1111
00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:05,458
say too, at my age is that reinventing

1112
00:34:05,458 --> 00:34:07,875
yourself and like in my case, getting

1113
00:34:07,875 --> 00:34:11,000
into this, um, uh, doing this science

1114
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,291
communication, the podcast and the stuff

1115
00:34:13,291 --> 00:34:14,208
I've been doing with you.

1116
00:34:14,750 --> 00:34:18,750
Um, I, if you had asked me 20 years ago,

1117
00:34:18,750 --> 00:34:20,666
even when I was, when I was your age, I

1118
00:34:20,666 --> 00:34:22,375
would have been like, I was just pretty

1119
00:34:22,375 --> 00:34:24,000
much the science. That's what it was.

1120
00:34:24,291 --> 00:34:25,791
Yeah. I mean, the landscapes changed a

1121
00:34:25,791 --> 00:34:27,000
lot because they're never, there wasn't

1122
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,625
really the opportunities with the

1123
00:34:29,625 --> 00:34:31,708
different platforms now, but I was pretty

1124
00:34:31,708 --> 00:34:33,916
much hardcore. I love doing the science.

1125
00:34:33,916 --> 00:34:36,000
I mean, I hate to use the term hardcore,

1126
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,000
but I loved, I mean, I was

1127
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,416
just excited about it every day.

1128
00:34:38,458 --> 00:34:40,375
I'm like, Oh wow, I'm gonna go. Let's see

1129
00:34:40,375 --> 00:34:41,666
what you discover today. It's Christmas

1130
00:34:41,666 --> 00:34:44,875
again. Yes. Every day. Um, but I also

1131
00:34:44,875 --> 00:34:47,416
found, you know, it's like, is I kind of

1132
00:34:47,416 --> 00:34:49,708
advanced in my career. I get to point

1133
00:34:49,708 --> 00:34:51,333
where it's like, well, do I need to do

1134
00:34:51,333 --> 00:34:54,208
another, you know, whatever publications

1135
00:34:54,208 --> 00:34:55,500
or this and that. I still enjoy doing

1136
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:57,958
that, but I've kind of learned in a whole

1137
00:34:57,958 --> 00:35:00,166
new area, like the science communication

1138
00:35:00,166 --> 00:35:01,958
thing. I've kind of been on this journey

1139
00:35:01,958 --> 00:35:03,916
with you really. Yeah. It's been a really

1140
00:35:03,916 --> 00:35:06,500
exciting to me because it's like, it's

1141
00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:07,291
just a whole something

1142
00:35:07,291 --> 00:35:08,166
new. It's a challenge.

1143
00:35:08,166 --> 00:35:11,291
It is to learn this stuff and it really,

1144
00:35:11,291 --> 00:35:13,166
and I can tell you it, it's a lot of

1145
00:35:13,166 --> 00:35:14,708
work. If people listening out there,

1146
00:35:14,708 --> 00:35:15,666
like, oh, if you think you're like, I'll

1147
00:35:15,666 --> 00:35:17,833
go start a podcast. It's a lot of work

1148
00:35:17,833 --> 00:35:19,791
and I don't do a fraction of what Andrew

1149
00:35:19,791 --> 00:35:21,500
does, but I can tell you for they just do

1150
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,291
in our, our beyond jaws podcast. It's a,

1151
00:35:24,291 --> 00:35:27,375
it's a, it's a passion project now for me

1152
00:35:27,375 --> 00:35:30,000
to really enjoy it, but it's, it's not,

1153
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,750
it's not easy and it takes time to do.

1154
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:33,333
And I think you told me this, Andrew,

1155
00:35:33,333 --> 00:35:35,375
like most podcasts are maybe, maybe get

1156
00:35:35,375 --> 00:35:38,166
10 episodes tops out of that. Yeah. If that's what I'm talking about.

1157
00:35:38,166 --> 00:35:39,250
Yeah.

1158
00:35:39,250 --> 00:35:40,791
And you know, we're, we're up around to

1159
00:35:40,791 --> 00:35:42,958
think about almost about 150 episodes now

1160
00:35:42,958 --> 00:35:45,625
for the beyond jaws. So it's not, again,

1161
00:35:45,625 --> 00:35:46,916
we got a long ways to catch up to your

1162
00:35:46,916 --> 00:35:49,000
other show, but, but, but concern we

1163
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,750
started from nothing. It was a concept

1164
00:35:50,750 --> 00:35:52,375
and an idea really.

1165
00:35:53,083 --> 00:35:55,166
And, and it kept it on.

1166
00:35:55,541 --> 00:35:58,666
I think, I think the thing I always, I,

1167
00:35:58,666 --> 00:36:01,166
I, I always go by the mantra. It's like,

1168
00:36:01,166 --> 00:36:03,500
I'm going to outwork everybody else.

1169
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:05,791
Yeah. I may not have the best skillset. I

1170
00:36:05,791 --> 00:36:08,250
may not have the, the, the, I may not be

1171
00:36:08,250 --> 00:36:09,666
the most intelligent person in the room,

1172
00:36:09,666 --> 00:36:11,708
but I'm going to be, I'm going to work

1173
00:36:11,708 --> 00:36:13,625
the heck out of you. And I learned that

1174
00:36:13,625 --> 00:36:15,541
at a young age playing football is I can

1175
00:36:15,541 --> 00:36:18,208
outwork you. And if I outwork you, then

1176
00:36:18,208 --> 00:36:19,875
I'm going to, I'm going to have a one up

1177
00:36:19,875 --> 00:36:21,916
on you, you know, and it's going to

1178
00:36:21,916 --> 00:36:23,791
benefit me in every way.

1179
00:36:24,458 --> 00:36:26,708
And, and I think, you know, you talk, you

1180
00:36:26,708 --> 00:36:29,291
talk about doing the pivot. I, I, I've

1181
00:36:29,291 --> 00:36:31,791
pivoted a few times. I didn't know after

1182
00:36:31,791 --> 00:36:33,125
my masters didn't know where I was going

1183
00:36:33,125 --> 00:36:35,375
to fit in coming home to Ontario. I

1184
00:36:35,375 --> 00:36:36,875
didn't know where, if I was ever going to

1185
00:36:36,875 --> 00:36:38,416
find something I liked it. Like I said, I

1186
00:36:38,416 --> 00:36:41,708
did the, the, the marine consulting or

1187
00:36:41,708 --> 00:36:42,416
the environmental

1188
00:36:42,416 --> 00:36:44,166
consulting didn't love it.

1189
00:36:44,708 --> 00:36:47,500
I went into, I worked a little bit

1190
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:49,916
nonprofit, like German masters and it was

1191
00:36:49,916 --> 00:36:52,750
fun, but like it doesn't pay much. It's

1192
00:36:52,750 --> 00:36:55,250
hard to have a, like to have a family on

1193
00:36:55,250 --> 00:36:57,208
those types of salaries and live in the

1194
00:36:57,208 --> 00:36:58,708
area that we live in. We live in a very

1195
00:36:58,708 --> 00:37:01,083
expensive area in Southern Ontario or not

1196
00:37:01,083 --> 00:37:02,166
very expensive, but it's,

1197
00:37:02,166 --> 00:37:03,166
it's, it's tough to live.

1198
00:37:03,166 --> 00:37:04,916
Like we got in at the right time. Let's

1199
00:37:04,916 --> 00:37:06,708
just say, you know, nowadays, I don't

1200
00:37:06,708 --> 00:37:08,458
know if I can afford a home if I was

1201
00:37:08,458 --> 00:37:10,125
starting out today. I don't think many of

1202
00:37:10,125 --> 00:37:13,125
us could, but regardless, you know,

1203
00:37:13,125 --> 00:37:16,541
there, there it's just, it's, it's a,

1204
00:37:16,541 --> 00:37:18,166
it's a difficult, it's a difficult thing.

1205
00:37:18,166 --> 00:37:20,833
And when you don't really feel like

1206
00:37:20,833 --> 00:37:22,958
you're in the place where you belong and

1207
00:37:22,958 --> 00:37:25,000
like, you know, I never felt satisfied

1208
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,458
with doing something until I started

1209
00:37:29,458 --> 00:37:31,625
doing science communication because I

1210
00:37:31,625 --> 00:37:33,875
was, I started to get really good at it.

1211
00:37:34,083 --> 00:37:36,458
And, and in terms of like, I enjoyed it a

1212
00:37:36,458 --> 00:37:38,208
lot. Every time I do an interview still

1213
00:37:38,208 --> 00:37:40,958
to this day, I get pumped. I don't even

1214
00:37:40,958 --> 00:37:42,500
go talk to my wife about it. My wife

1215
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:43,166
would be like, oh my God, here he goes.

1216
00:37:43,208 --> 00:37:46,541
Like, he's ready to talk about science.

1217
00:37:47,458 --> 00:37:49,166
But yeah, like I get, I get super excited

1218
00:37:49,166 --> 00:37:50,458
because it's something new. I get to

1219
00:37:50,458 --> 00:37:51,500
talk, especially when I get to talk to

1220
00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:53,166
either, you know, colleagues have come on

1221
00:37:53,166 --> 00:37:54,791
a number of times or, you know, with,

1222
00:37:54,791 --> 00:37:56,375
with people that I've, I've, I'm just

1223
00:37:56,375 --> 00:37:57,250
first meeting and

1224
00:37:57,250 --> 00:37:58,333
getting to know their projects.

1225
00:37:58,541 --> 00:38:00,500
It's an exciting time for me to do it.

1226
00:38:00,875 --> 00:38:03,375
And so it was like, once I found that

1227
00:38:03,375 --> 00:38:06,250
out, once I figured that out, I started

1228
00:38:06,250 --> 00:38:07,708
to tell myself, I'm like, this is what I

1229
00:38:07,708 --> 00:38:10,666
want to do. You know, in, in marine, this

1230
00:38:10,666 --> 00:38:11,416
is where I'm, this is

1231
00:38:11,416 --> 00:38:12,166
where I'm going to excel.

1232
00:38:12,166 --> 00:38:14,750
And I didn't know if it was going to be

1233
00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:16,833
continuing with the podcast on my own and

1234
00:38:16,833 --> 00:38:18,333
building that out as a business, which I

1235
00:38:18,333 --> 00:38:19,916
didn't know how to do at any point in

1236
00:38:19,916 --> 00:38:22,125
time. I don't have Joe Rogan numbers. I

1237
00:38:22,125 --> 00:38:23,750
don't want to be Joe Rogan, but I don't

1238
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:24,750
have Joe Rogan numbers.

1239
00:38:25,250 --> 00:38:27,291
Who's the highest, like, he's probably

1240
00:38:27,291 --> 00:38:29,541
the person who gets the most podcast

1241
00:38:29,541 --> 00:38:34,291
downloads per episode. But I also like I

1242
00:38:34,291 --> 00:38:35,916
really like doing this. So I didn't know

1243
00:38:35,916 --> 00:38:37,125
if that was going to be it or if I was

1244
00:38:37,125 --> 00:38:38,166
going to find a job with somebody.

1245
00:38:38,666 --> 00:38:42,125
And I have applied to a lot of science

1246
00:38:42,125 --> 00:38:44,791
communication jobs over the years. And I

1247
00:38:44,791 --> 00:38:48,000
don't know if it was just, I didn't

1248
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,083
communicate well what I do, or people. I

1249
00:38:51,083 --> 00:38:52,916
also wonder if the marine conservation

1250
00:38:52,916 --> 00:38:55,875
world don't really have an understanding

1251
00:38:55,875 --> 00:39:00,250
of how powerful podcasting is in a way

1252
00:39:00,250 --> 00:39:01,166
for marine science, right?

1253
00:39:01,208 --> 00:39:06,083
If I can speak from a just having gone,

1254
00:39:06,083 --> 00:39:07,958
I've kind of transverses these different

1255
00:39:07,958 --> 00:39:10,750
eras. And one of the things in the

1256
00:39:10,750 --> 00:39:13,083
science fields, and I think it will

1257
00:39:13,083 --> 00:39:14,625
obviously speak firsthand to marine

1258
00:39:14,625 --> 00:39:16,125
science, but I think a lot of sciences,

1259
00:39:16,458 --> 00:39:18,458
the problem has been

1260
00:39:18,458 --> 00:39:20,166
communicating to the public.

1261
00:39:20,208 --> 00:39:22,916
You got to, there's been very few people,

1262
00:39:23,208 --> 00:39:25,666
and I'd say even today, that are really

1263
00:39:25,666 --> 00:39:28,166
credible scientists that actually cross

1264
00:39:28,166 --> 00:39:31,125
over and do like the podcast type of

1265
00:39:31,125 --> 00:39:33,250
stuff or science outreach stuff. Most of

1266
00:39:33,250 --> 00:39:35,166
the people, they're one or the other.

1267
00:39:35,333 --> 00:39:37,833
They find a niche in the end. I'm not

1268
00:39:37,833 --> 00:39:39,708
saying either one's bad, but if somebody

1269
00:39:39,708 --> 00:39:41,416
you have somebody understands the science

1270
00:39:41,416 --> 00:39:43,958
and they can communicate that because the

1271
00:39:43,958 --> 00:39:47,208
scientists traditionally and even today,

1272
00:39:47,208 --> 00:39:49,416
I think a lot of the ones that do a lot

1273
00:39:49,416 --> 00:39:51,083
of the really cutting edge stuff, they're

1274
00:39:51,083 --> 00:39:52,958
busy doing their cutting edge stuff and

1275
00:39:52,958 --> 00:39:53,666
they just don't have

1276
00:39:53,666 --> 00:39:56,041
time to talk to people.

1277
00:39:56,416 --> 00:39:58,333
And when they do, then they don't break

1278
00:39:58,333 --> 00:40:00,166
it down to the so the average person can

1279
00:40:00,166 --> 00:40:01,500
understand what they're talking about.

1280
00:40:01,916 --> 00:40:03,500
Right. You know, I've talked

1281
00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:04,166
about one of my favorite things.

1282
00:40:04,166 --> 00:40:06,166
I've talked about one of my mentors early

1283
00:40:06,166 --> 00:40:08,083
in my career, John McCasker, who is the

1284
00:40:08,083 --> 00:40:10,750
director of the Steinhardt Aquarium. And

1285
00:40:10,750 --> 00:40:12,958
he was and I kind of realized at the time

1286
00:40:12,958 --> 00:40:15,083
that he was one of the few people I knew

1287
00:40:15,083 --> 00:40:17,625
who could take a complicated thing and he

1288
00:40:17,625 --> 00:40:18,291
could literally because

1289
00:40:18,291 --> 00:40:19,250
I was with him sometimes.

1290
00:40:19,250 --> 00:40:21,541
He could talk to like, you know, the guys

1291
00:40:21,541 --> 00:40:24,708
in the dock about something and just in

1292
00:40:24,708 --> 00:40:26,958
simple terms. I don't mean simple terms,

1293
00:40:26,958 --> 00:40:29,125
but in a layman's term that they can

1294
00:40:29,125 --> 00:40:29,958
understand. He wasn't

1295
00:40:29,958 --> 00:40:30,166
talking down to him.

1296
00:40:30,166 --> 00:40:32,833
But they'd like, oh, yeah, I know I get

1297
00:40:32,833 --> 00:40:34,958
with no, I know I understand that and

1298
00:40:34,958 --> 00:40:36,791
unfortunately, most people in the field

1299
00:40:36,791 --> 00:40:39,333
don't do that. I was fortunate. I

1300
00:40:39,333 --> 00:40:41,500
recognized it with them. But you know, he

1301
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:44,833
was one of the few at that time that

1302
00:40:44,833 --> 00:40:46,125
could do that. Most of the people would

1303
00:40:46,125 --> 00:40:47,750
get really enthusiastic. And I'd hear

1304
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:49,541
this over and over like, wow, that guy

1305
00:40:49,541 --> 00:40:51,375
really is enthusiastic. But I have no

1306
00:40:51,375 --> 00:40:52,166
idea what he's talking about.

1307
00:40:52,166 --> 00:40:55,625
Exactly. Or, or they don't care enough.

1308
00:40:56,208 --> 00:40:57,916
It's not enticing enough. You know,

1309
00:40:58,625 --> 00:41:00,875
people are used to storytelling. Yeah.

1310
00:41:01,166 --> 00:41:03,416
And we need to bring that emotion back

1311
00:41:03,416 --> 00:41:05,291
into storytelling from the science. You

1312
00:41:05,291 --> 00:41:06,791
know, we need to extrapolate the science

1313
00:41:06,791 --> 00:41:07,750
that people need to know.

1314
00:41:08,125 --> 00:41:09,750
We need to put it in a way that people

1315
00:41:09,750 --> 00:41:12,166
and that takes a while for scientists to

1316
00:41:12,166 --> 00:41:13,541
be able to do because we've been trained

1317
00:41:13,541 --> 00:41:15,583
to be analytical. We've been trained to

1318
00:41:15,583 --> 00:41:18,000
as Randy Olson says, you know, speak to

1319
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,000
the brain. So if I give you facts, you

1320
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:20,166
should be able to understand it.

1321
00:41:20,166 --> 00:41:22,625
And that will therefore that will change

1322
00:41:22,625 --> 00:41:24,166
your behavior because it's a logical

1323
00:41:24,166 --> 00:41:27,625
thing to do. Humans don't act logically a

1324
00:41:27,625 --> 00:41:28,791
lot of times, a lot of times will act on

1325
00:41:28,791 --> 00:41:30,708
emotion. So if you make it funny, sad,

1326
00:41:31,375 --> 00:41:33,125
you make them angry, make them happy.

1327
00:41:33,583 --> 00:41:35,333
That was like you go for their gut.

1328
00:41:35,666 --> 00:41:37,458
That's what it does. But I think, you

1329
00:41:37,458 --> 00:41:39,541
know, going back to what going back to

1330
00:41:39,541 --> 00:41:41,000
what you're saying in terms of like why

1331
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,625
podcasts is such a good platform is

1332
00:41:44,625 --> 00:41:46,166
people listen to podcasts

1333
00:41:46,166 --> 00:41:49,166
longer than any other platform.

1334
00:41:49,291 --> 00:41:51,791
Maybe YouTube now is a little bit better

1335
00:41:51,791 --> 00:41:53,000
because getting a little longer. But even

1336
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,250
then, you know, you're looking at, you

1337
00:41:55,250 --> 00:41:57,375
know, these short form video platforms

1338
00:41:57,375 --> 00:41:59,458
like Instagram and TikTok, you're looking

1339
00:41:59,458 --> 00:42:01,250
at under three minutes. YouTube, you're

1340
00:42:01,250 --> 00:42:02,833
looking at between three to five minutes

1341
00:42:02,833 --> 00:42:04,666
podcasts. On average, people listen

1342
00:42:04,666 --> 00:42:07,500
between 20 and 45 minutes because you can

1343
00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:10,083
take your little device here and take it

1344
00:42:10,083 --> 00:42:12,416
out. You know, you can take your little

1345
00:42:12,416 --> 00:42:15,375
you can take your device and go out and,

1346
00:42:15,375 --> 00:42:17,541
you know, push your earbuds on or

1347
00:42:17,541 --> 00:42:18,166
whatever and go for a walk. You can go for a walk.

1348
00:42:18,166 --> 00:42:21,208
You can go for a drive. Yeah, go

1349
00:42:21,208 --> 00:42:23,958
exercise. I mean, I sometimes, you know,

1350
00:42:24,250 --> 00:42:25,375
especially in California, people, you

1351
00:42:25,375 --> 00:42:26,666
know, those they'll commute one to two

1352
00:42:26,666 --> 00:42:28,958
hours a day each way going to work and

1353
00:42:28,958 --> 00:42:30,500
you put on a podcast,

1354
00:42:30,500 --> 00:42:32,416
you know, you're good.

1355
00:42:33,250 --> 00:42:35,000
You know, yeah, you know, put on Beyond

1356
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,750
Jaws, hopefully, or how to protect the

1357
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:41,458
ocean and, you know, so yeah. Yeah. So

1358
00:42:41,458 --> 00:42:42,500
tell us about this job.

1359
00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:44,166
You just yeah, career change.

1360
00:42:44,166 --> 00:42:49,333
So yeah, so so I am now as of so this is

1361
00:42:49,333 --> 00:42:52,125
going to go up the Good Friday. So as of

1362
00:42:52,125 --> 00:42:53,916
next week, if whenever you're listening,

1363
00:42:53,916 --> 00:42:55,875
as of the seventh, I'm going to be an

1364
00:42:55,875 --> 00:42:58,083
oceans communication manager for

1365
00:42:58,083 --> 00:43:02,500
consulting firm called Pisces Ocean and

1366
00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:05,375
their tagline is eliminating barriers to

1367
00:43:05,375 --> 00:43:06,958
oceans project success,

1368
00:43:06,958 --> 00:43:07,166
Ocean Project success.

1369
00:43:07,166 --> 00:43:11,000
And the idea behind that is we work with

1370
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,041
clients that could be for profit

1371
00:43:13,041 --> 00:43:15,125
companies, nonprofit organizations,

1372
00:43:15,500 --> 00:43:17,333
academic institutions that have projects

1373
00:43:17,333 --> 00:43:21,000
and we help them not only we have kind of

1374
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:22,125
like pillars. So we'll do

1375
00:43:22,125 --> 00:43:23,458
like strategic consulting.

1376
00:43:24,125 --> 00:43:25,333
That's one pillar. We'll have another

1377
00:43:25,333 --> 00:43:26,750
pillar. That's that's like project

1378
00:43:26,750 --> 00:43:28,250
management and grant management for

1379
00:43:28,250 --> 00:43:30,166
projects. And then and then there's the

1380
00:43:30,166 --> 00:43:32,000
communication side. So the idea around

1381
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,291
all of it as it fits together is we help

1382
00:43:34,291 --> 00:43:36,666
make their projects more successful, you

1383
00:43:36,666 --> 00:43:37,166
know, by helping them.

1384
00:43:37,166 --> 00:43:39,541
Like a lot of academic institutions,

1385
00:43:39,916 --> 00:43:41,833
usually they'll have labs or they'll

1386
00:43:41,833 --> 00:43:46,000
have, you know, collaborative project,

1387
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,333
let's just say, and they may not have the

1388
00:43:48,333 --> 00:43:51,000
resources to handle the, you know, all

1389
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,458
the administration for grants or how to

1390
00:43:53,458 --> 00:43:55,083
manage that project or they may not have

1391
00:43:55,083 --> 00:43:56,708
the people to do the project management,

1392
00:43:56,708 --> 00:43:59,166
but they also may not have the consulting

1393
00:43:59,166 --> 00:44:01,375
and they may not be able to tell their

1394
00:44:01,375 --> 00:44:03,666
story properly, you know, and so we work

1395
00:44:03,666 --> 00:44:04,166
with clients to do that.

1396
00:44:04,208 --> 00:44:06,958
And I'll be the ocean communications

1397
00:44:06,958 --> 00:44:08,875
manager. I've, you know, obviously I have

1398
00:44:08,875 --> 00:44:10,666
a science background, have the

1399
00:44:10,666 --> 00:44:12,791
communication background. So we'll be

1400
00:44:12,791 --> 00:44:15,375
working with clients from all over, you

1401
00:44:15,375 --> 00:44:17,291
know, the spectrum of working in the

1402
00:44:17,291 --> 00:44:18,875
ocean. I always like to say working with

1403
00:44:18,875 --> 00:44:21,791
companies, projects, nonprofits who have

1404
00:44:21,791 --> 00:44:23,166
a net positive impact on the ocean.

1405
00:44:23,166 --> 00:44:26,166
And so that's like, you know, the

1406
00:44:26,166 --> 00:44:28,125
consulting that I did back, you know, in

1407
00:44:28,125 --> 00:44:30,750
the early 2000s was all about working

1408
00:44:30,750 --> 00:44:32,666
with companies who have almost a net

1409
00:44:32,666 --> 00:44:35,000
negative impact on the ocean here, we're

1410
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:35,166
working with the opposite.

1411
00:44:35,166 --> 00:44:38,208
And it's exciting because there's,

1412
00:44:38,208 --> 00:44:40,208
there's, there's going to be, you know,

1413
00:44:40,541 --> 00:44:42,041
clients that are working with AI to

1414
00:44:42,041 --> 00:44:45,750
reroute shipping channels to so that they

1415
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:48,791
stay away from high biodiversity areas or

1416
00:44:48,791 --> 00:44:51,500
out of Wales migration routes and still

1417
00:44:51,500 --> 00:44:55,791
be efficient for, for, for, for gas and

1418
00:44:55,791 --> 00:44:58,375
diesel and stuff like that. So all these

1419
00:44:58,375 --> 00:44:59,583
different types of projects

1420
00:44:59,583 --> 00:45:01,083
that we get to work with it.

1421
00:45:01,333 --> 00:45:02,833
It, it won. I remember I told you, I

1422
00:45:02,833 --> 00:45:04,416
really like working on different projects

1423
00:45:04,416 --> 00:45:06,166
when I was working for DFO, like I get to

1424
00:45:06,166 --> 00:45:08,208
do the same thing here and I get to do

1425
00:45:08,208 --> 00:45:09,875
communications. So that includes a number

1426
00:45:09,875 --> 00:45:11,125
of different things and it'll be

1427
00:45:11,125 --> 00:45:13,125
different for every client, but maybe

1428
00:45:13,125 --> 00:45:14,583
helping them with podcasting, helping

1429
00:45:14,583 --> 00:45:16,083
them with social media, helping them

1430
00:45:16,083 --> 00:45:18,500
design their website, just really

1431
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:20,708
strategize on the storytelling aspect.

1432
00:45:21,875 --> 00:45:23,500
And that'll be, that'll be the fun part.

1433
00:45:23,500 --> 00:45:25,041
I get to use my creativity. I get to use

1434
00:45:25,041 --> 00:45:27,208
the sun, like the science. And then I get

1435
00:45:27,208 --> 00:45:28,958
to bring that all together into telling

1436
00:45:28,958 --> 00:45:31,083
like a really good story for each of

1437
00:45:31,083 --> 00:45:32,916
those clients that are unique to them,

1438
00:45:33,333 --> 00:45:35,291
the clients, but also something that

1439
00:45:35,291 --> 00:45:38,500
people can really, you know, grab, grab a

1440
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:41,041
hold of and, and, and learn and be able

1441
00:45:41,041 --> 00:45:42,166
to speak about as well.

1442
00:45:42,208 --> 00:45:44,833
So super exciting. You know, it's, it's

1443
00:45:44,833 --> 00:45:48,916
a, it came from the person who hired me

1444
00:45:48,916 --> 00:45:52,333
Natalie Gilson, who's the co-CEO at this

1445
00:45:52,333 --> 00:45:54,208
company. We've been, we've been friends

1446
00:45:54,208 --> 00:45:57,375
for, for a few years now. I, she found me

1447
00:45:57,375 --> 00:46:00,083
through the podcast. She was working, she

1448
00:46:00,083 --> 00:46:03,041
had her own marketing shop. She wanted to

1449
00:46:03,041 --> 00:46:05,500
get more of, work in an area where she

1450
00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:07,000
had more of an impact, especially on the

1451
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:07,625
ocean because she

1452
00:46:07,625 --> 00:46:08,625
loved the ocean so much.

1453
00:46:09,375 --> 00:46:11,333
And then she found the podcast and she's

1454
00:46:11,333 --> 00:46:12,583
like, this is great. This guy's Canadian.

1455
00:46:12,916 --> 00:46:14,250
We actually lived, we didn't at the time,

1456
00:46:14,250 --> 00:46:16,208
we didn't live, we lived maybe like 45

1457
00:46:16,208 --> 00:46:18,000
minutes away from each other. We had some

1458
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,666
conversation. I had her on the podcast.

1459
00:46:19,666 --> 00:46:21,083
You know, we just talked a lot about

1460
00:46:21,083 --> 00:46:24,083
different things. And then recently at

1461
00:46:24,083 --> 00:46:26,375
the world ocean conference, I got, I got

1462
00:46:26,375 --> 00:46:28,250
offered a job to work with her and, and

1463
00:46:28,250 --> 00:46:29,000
which we had talked

1464
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,875
about on and off for a bit.

1465
00:46:31,333 --> 00:46:33,291
Uh, just never came to be at the, at the

1466
00:46:33,291 --> 00:46:36,000
right time. And, uh, now it's like super

1467
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,083
exciting. We're Ray, we're gung ho for,

1468
00:46:38,083 --> 00:46:40,625
for doing this. And, um, yeah, it's,

1469
00:46:40,625 --> 00:46:42,458
it's, it's, uh, it's, it's pretty

1470
00:46:42,458 --> 00:46:44,541
exciting on a number of different levels,

1471
00:46:44,541 --> 00:46:46,375
Dave, not only cause of the job I get to

1472
00:46:46,375 --> 00:46:49,750
do, but the work that I put in over the

1473
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:52,416
last like 16 years in communication to

1474
00:46:52,416 --> 00:46:55,541
get all that experience to get, um, you

1475
00:46:55,541 --> 00:46:56,500
know, to do something

1476
00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:58,166
that I love full time.

1477
00:46:58,166 --> 00:47:00,166
You know, I've been working, one thing

1478
00:47:00,166 --> 00:47:01,333
that we haven't really discussed, I've

1479
00:47:01,333 --> 00:47:03,458
been working a separate job for the last

1480
00:47:03,458 --> 00:47:06,541
like six and a half years just to, just

1481
00:47:06,541 --> 00:47:08,291
to pay the bills and I was working in

1482
00:47:08,291 --> 00:47:10,125
software, which I had a great time doing.

1483
00:47:10,125 --> 00:47:11,791
I love the people I work with. I learned

1484
00:47:11,791 --> 00:47:14,916
a lot. Um, but it wasn't like, I always,

1485
00:47:14,916 --> 00:47:16,833
there's always still this hole like that.

1486
00:47:16,833 --> 00:47:18,375
I'm like, I didn't belong there. I belong

1487
00:47:18,375 --> 00:47:19,833
to do something different and more

1488
00:47:19,833 --> 00:47:21,541
important for me. Right. And I think, you

1489
00:47:21,541 --> 00:47:23,041
know, you said the thing you said there

1490
00:47:23,041 --> 00:47:24,791
too. And like, you know, you talk, talked

1491
00:47:24,791 --> 00:47:26,791
earlier about how I kind of like have a

1492
00:47:26,791 --> 00:47:28,166
where I'm at in my life.

1493
00:47:28,208 --> 00:47:30,458
Now I have different things, but you

1494
00:47:30,458 --> 00:47:32,250
know, back when I was younger than you

1495
00:47:32,250 --> 00:47:34,750
even, but even at that point, you know,

1496
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,291
I, and I've talked a little about this in

1497
00:47:36,291 --> 00:47:38,625
some of the shows, but you know, I did a

1498
00:47:38,625 --> 00:47:40,750
lot of different things, but I kept my

1499
00:47:40,750 --> 00:47:42,958
eye on the ball where I wanted to go. And

1500
00:47:42,958 --> 00:47:44,583
that's, that's the big thing. It's been

1501
00:47:44,583 --> 00:47:46,416
people talk about going in the field and

1502
00:47:46,416 --> 00:47:48,375
you know, they're 28 years old and they

1503
00:47:48,375 --> 00:47:49,541
can't figure out where they can't find a

1504
00:47:49,541 --> 00:47:50,541
job. It's like, well, you know, it might

1505
00:47:50,541 --> 00:47:53,583
take you a while to, to after grad school

1506
00:47:53,583 --> 00:47:55,500
to, uh, to, I mean, it,

1507
00:47:55,500 --> 00:47:57,166
it was 10 years, at least.

1508
00:47:57,166 --> 00:47:58,291
Yeah.

1509
00:47:58,666 --> 00:48:00,958
After I finished my PhD before I, uh,

1510
00:48:00,958 --> 00:48:02,916
before I actually found a job, actually

1511
00:48:02,916 --> 00:48:04,208
probably a little more than 20, 10 years,

1512
00:48:04,208 --> 00:48:04,916
I worked and I worked,

1513
00:48:04,916 --> 00:48:06,166
I worked in aquaculture.

1514
00:48:06,875 --> 00:48:07,125
Yeah.

1515
00:48:07,500 --> 00:48:08,083
You know, and I, and

1516
00:48:08,083 --> 00:48:09,208
it was abalone, right?

1517
00:48:09,208 --> 00:48:10,833
Yeah. I did abalone for 10 years.

1518
00:48:10,833 --> 00:48:11,000
Yeah.

1519
00:48:11,208 --> 00:48:13,000
And, uh, it was a business. My brother

1520
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,666
and I started with a few other partners

1521
00:48:14,666 --> 00:48:16,666
just because we couldn't find a job. So

1522
00:48:16,666 --> 00:48:18,375
we just literally created our own job.

1523
00:48:18,375 --> 00:48:21,458
And, uh, but what I kept doing though,

1524
00:48:21,708 --> 00:48:23,166
and this is exactly what you did.

1525
00:48:23,208 --> 00:48:25,708
I'd finished it. And when you're in your

1526
00:48:25,708 --> 00:48:27,458
business for yourself, like aquaculture,

1527
00:48:27,458 --> 00:48:28,875
you're farming it. So it's not like an

1528
00:48:28,875 --> 00:48:31,333
eight to five job, but when I'd finish up

1529
00:48:31,333 --> 00:48:33,750
the end of the day, I'd go home and every

1530
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:35,625
night, three, four hours, usually till

1531
00:48:35,625 --> 00:48:37,875
midnight or so, I would be at home

1532
00:48:37,875 --> 00:48:39,875
working on papers, doing a

1533
00:48:39,875 --> 00:48:41,208
different, you know, projects.

1534
00:48:41,458 --> 00:48:43,000
I was working on my shark. That was my

1535
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,958
shark time. Like, I mean, you and I are

1536
00:48:44,958 --> 00:48:46,166
so parallel like that, Andrew.

1537
00:48:46,166 --> 00:48:46,791
Oh, yeah.

1538
00:48:47,416 --> 00:48:51,000
And I did that for 10 years. And so until

1539
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,916
I had an opportunity to go back into

1540
00:48:52,916 --> 00:48:55,208
doing sharks and that sometimes you have

1541
00:48:55,208 --> 00:48:56,791
to do that extra. And the only reason I

1542
00:48:56,791 --> 00:48:59,416
got the job when it opened up was because

1543
00:48:59,416 --> 00:49:02,750
they saw me at conferences. I was, I was

1544
00:49:02,750 --> 00:49:05,166
publishing more papers at the, in the

1545
00:49:05,166 --> 00:49:07,125
nineties than people with

1546
00:49:07,125 --> 00:49:08,583
actual jobs in the field.

1547
00:49:09,083 --> 00:49:09,166
Yeah.

1548
00:49:09,166 --> 00:49:11,541
And so like, uh, and I was fortunate, my

1549
00:49:11,541 --> 00:49:14,291
former advisor, Greg Kai, recognize that.

1550
00:49:14,291 --> 00:49:16,166
And when he had an opportunity with some

1551
00:49:16,166 --> 00:49:17,833
funding, he had, he hired me to come in

1552
00:49:17,833 --> 00:49:19,541
and run the Pacific shark research center

1553
00:49:19,541 --> 00:49:21,458
with them and started up.

1554
00:49:21,541 --> 00:49:22,791
And, but it was the same thing.

1555
00:49:22,791 --> 00:49:24,666
Like I was, you know, my days didn't end

1556
00:49:24,666 --> 00:49:26,375
till after midnight pretty much. And I

1557
00:49:26,375 --> 00:49:29,500
had to be up at five to go do so, you

1558
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:30,041
know, maybe getting

1559
00:49:30,041 --> 00:49:32,250
five hours sleep at night.

1560
00:49:32,500 --> 00:49:34,166
Oh, I know that very familiar.

1561
00:49:34,208 --> 00:49:36,250
That's why when I get these messages from

1562
00:49:36,250 --> 00:49:37,833
you and I know it's after midnight your

1563
00:49:37,833 --> 00:49:40,125
time, I, I appreciate that. And I'm very

1564
00:49:40,125 --> 00:49:43,125
respectful because I know I was there for

1565
00:49:43,125 --> 00:49:44,375
a lot of years. And then he kind of hit

1566
00:49:44,375 --> 00:49:47,250
that point now where like I still put it,

1567
00:49:47,250 --> 00:49:49,250
I put in the pretty good times, but

1568
00:49:49,250 --> 00:49:51,333
you've got other commitments and just

1569
00:49:51,333 --> 00:49:53,166
like, you know, I don't, I don't need to

1570
00:49:53,166 --> 00:49:55,250
be up to one o'clock this morning doing

1571
00:49:55,250 --> 00:49:56,583
that at this point in my

1572
00:49:56,583 --> 00:49:58,166
life and stuff, you know,

1573
00:50:15,666 --> 00:50:17,041
I'm like, I'm going to do this separate

1574
00:50:17,041 --> 00:50:18,916
and build those skills. Like you have to

1575
00:50:18,916 --> 00:50:20,416
have a good workflow where like, I'm

1576
00:50:20,416 --> 00:50:22,000
going to work these days and you got to

1577
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,708
set boundaries and other days I'm going

1578
00:50:23,708 --> 00:50:25,166
to have some time off, you know, and, and now, like, I'm going to do this separate and build those skills.

1579
00:50:25,208 --> 00:50:29,333
And, and, and now like it's paid off

1580
00:50:29,333 --> 00:50:31,083
where, you know, there's going to be the

1581
00:50:31,083 --> 00:50:32,875
podcast is going to be involved, not

1582
00:50:32,875 --> 00:50:35,333
always with, with Pisces, like where I'm

1583
00:50:35,333 --> 00:50:37,375
working now, but there'll be some clients

1584
00:50:37,375 --> 00:50:39,083
that we have on the podcast there because

1585
00:50:39,083 --> 00:50:40,375
they're, they're really important to

1586
00:50:40,375 --> 00:50:41,500
what, what I want to do

1587
00:50:41,500 --> 00:50:42,166
with the, with the podcast.

1588
00:50:42,208 --> 00:50:45,000
And so there's going to be a blend in

1589
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,333
that a little bit. So it's not always

1590
00:50:46,333 --> 00:50:47,833
going to be separate. It's not always

1591
00:50:47,833 --> 00:50:49,458
going to be like, I have to stay up till

1592
00:50:49,458 --> 00:50:51,500
11 just to record podcasts or something

1593
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:53,541
like that. No, like I'll be able to do it

1594
00:50:53,541 --> 00:50:54,208
pretty early. Also,

1595
00:50:54,208 --> 00:50:55,208
I'll get my evenings back.

1596
00:50:55,208 --> 00:50:56,833
That's what I'm, I'm really excited.

1597
00:50:56,833 --> 00:50:57,875
Cause not only am I going to be working

1598
00:50:57,875 --> 00:51:01,000
my butt off during the day for Pisces and

1599
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,958
the podcast, but it's like, I get my

1600
00:51:02,958 --> 00:51:04,875
evenings back. You know, I get to work

1601
00:51:04,875 --> 00:51:06,166
out again on a regular basis.

1602
00:51:06,208 --> 00:51:08,625
I get to spend time with my kids a little

1603
00:51:08,625 --> 00:51:10,875
bit more, you know, my wife, you know, a

1604
00:51:10,875 --> 00:51:13,166
little bit more like it's just, just to

1605
00:51:13,166 --> 00:51:15,375
relax a little bit more, you know, and,

1606
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,791
and, and that's, that's important to me

1607
00:51:17,791 --> 00:51:19,000
at this point in time.

1608
00:51:19,250 --> 00:51:21,666
And, and to get to a point where I can,

1609
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,208
you know, eight hours a day, I've been

1610
00:51:23,208 --> 00:51:25,208
saying this for, for 16 years, I just

1611
00:51:25,208 --> 00:51:26,625
want to get to a point where I can work

1612
00:51:26,625 --> 00:51:29,083
on oceans during the day, eight hours a

1613
00:51:29,083 --> 00:51:30,166
day. And now I get to do that.

1614
00:51:31,166 --> 00:51:33,125
I think it's, I think it's really great.

1615
00:51:33,125 --> 00:51:35,250
And I get to work with these, these great

1616
00:51:35,250 --> 00:51:37,125
companies, organizations and projects

1617
00:51:37,125 --> 00:51:40,041
that are doing good for the ocean. And,

1618
00:51:40,041 --> 00:51:41,750
and, you know, I get to have a hand in

1619
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:43,250
that. And I think that's, that's really

1620
00:51:43,250 --> 00:51:45,583
great. And, and I'll tell you like that.

1621
00:51:45,958 --> 00:51:48,041
The, you know, the interview was very,

1622
00:51:48,041 --> 00:51:49,583
there was, there was like, you can almost

1623
00:51:49,583 --> 00:51:50,125
say there was no

1624
00:51:50,125 --> 00:51:51,166
formal interview process.

1625
00:51:52,166 --> 00:51:54,625
This was done over years and it was done

1626
00:51:54,625 --> 00:51:55,916
getting to know each other and how we

1627
00:51:55,916 --> 00:51:57,750
work together and doing relationships,

1628
00:51:58,166 --> 00:52:00,125
the networks, it's a relationship, right?

1629
00:52:00,125 --> 00:52:01,500
It's working on volunteer projects

1630
00:52:01,500 --> 00:52:04,041
together, seeing how we are, you know,

1631
00:52:04,041 --> 00:52:05,958
personality wise. So it's almost been, I

1632
00:52:05,958 --> 00:52:06,750
guess, like a three to

1633
00:52:06,750 --> 00:52:07,958
four year interview process.

1634
00:52:08,166 --> 00:52:10,583
If you really want to put it that way,

1635
00:52:10,583 --> 00:52:13,000
but we work really well together and,

1636
00:52:13,291 --> 00:52:14,666
and, and I've met like, this is going to

1637
00:52:14,666 --> 00:52:17,875
be a small boutique consulting firm from

1638
00:52:17,875 --> 00:52:20,500
now we will be growing and, and I'll

1639
00:52:20,500 --> 00:52:21,541
hopefully be part of that.

1640
00:52:21,875 --> 00:52:24,250
And, and, you know, I'm looking to, to

1641
00:52:24,250 --> 00:52:26,250
like really do some great things and I'll

1642
00:52:26,250 --> 00:52:27,875
talk about it on the podcast. Of course,

1643
00:52:27,875 --> 00:52:29,125
I'll talk about it on Beyond Jaws and

1644
00:52:29,125 --> 00:52:30,291
stuff, but this is

1645
00:52:30,291 --> 00:52:31,166
going to be a lot of fun.

1646
00:52:31,166 --> 00:52:33,666
So I'm like ready to dive in, you know,

1647
00:52:33,666 --> 00:52:36,416
head first on, on this and, um, and, and,

1648
00:52:36,416 --> 00:52:37,750
and kick some, kick some butt for the

1649
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:39,666
ocean. Great. Well, well, Daniel will

1650
00:52:39,666 --> 00:52:41,083
definitely have to have

1651
00:52:41,083 --> 00:52:42,208
you back on the show here.

1652
00:52:42,208 --> 00:52:45,250
And I'll check the ocean and, uh, and

1653
00:52:45,250 --> 00:52:47,583
find follow up on how it's going with the

1654
00:52:47,583 --> 00:52:49,541
job. And we'll certainly talk about it on

1655
00:52:49,541 --> 00:52:51,750
the Beyond Jaws podcast as well. Yes.

1656
00:52:52,166 --> 00:52:53,958
And, um, and I just want to, want to

1657
00:52:53,958 --> 00:52:54,833
thank you for coming on the

1658
00:52:54,833 --> 00:52:57,166
show today and, uh, you bet.

1659
00:52:58,166 --> 00:52:59,833
Thank you for having me as a guest.

1660
00:53:00,625 --> 00:53:03,708
And so, uh, we'll see how the, we'll see

1661
00:53:03,708 --> 00:53:05,416
how the show does in the, in the, uh,

1662
00:53:05,416 --> 00:53:07,416
metrics here. And you might see me after

1663
00:53:07,416 --> 00:53:07,958
the show after this.

1664
00:53:08,250 --> 00:53:10,958
Oh, no, no, no, no, that's insane. Of

1665
00:53:10,958 --> 00:53:11,916
course we're going to have you back.

1666
00:53:11,916 --> 00:53:13,250
We'll have you back for your own stuff

1667
00:53:13,250 --> 00:53:15,541
too. And, and people like check out how

1668
00:53:15,541 --> 00:53:17,083
to protect the ocean. Like we talk about

1669
00:53:17,083 --> 00:53:18,166
careers all the time.

1670
00:53:18,166 --> 00:53:20,500
Sorry, beyond Jaws, you know, we talked

1671
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:22,208
to people who are meandering in and out

1672
00:53:22,208 --> 00:53:24,625
of careers. Like we say this every time

1673
00:53:24,625 --> 00:53:26,458
and, and people agree with us that our

1674
00:53:26,458 --> 00:53:28,500
guests agree with us is it's not a

1675
00:53:28,500 --> 00:53:30,250
straight path. It's very rare where it's

1676
00:53:30,250 --> 00:53:31,625
a straight path from going from graduate

1677
00:53:31,625 --> 00:53:34,000
school or going from undergrad and

1678
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,625
working right in there and doing exactly

1679
00:53:35,625 --> 00:53:36,541
what you want because

1680
00:53:36,541 --> 00:53:37,333
science is different.

1681
00:53:37,333 --> 00:53:38,541
And you never know what you're going to

1682
00:53:38,541 --> 00:53:40,541
love, whether it's the science side, the

1683
00:53:40,541 --> 00:53:42,750
conservation side, the business side, you

1684
00:53:42,750 --> 00:53:43,458
never know what you're

1685
00:53:43,458 --> 00:53:44,166
going to be able to do.

1686
00:53:44,166 --> 00:53:46,916
Uh, and where it's going to lead you to.

1687
00:53:46,916 --> 00:53:48,041
And then there's going to be pivots.

1688
00:53:48,041 --> 00:53:49,416
There's going to be that, but check out

1689
00:53:49,416 --> 00:53:51,750
beyond Jaws because, uh, that, that

1690
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:53,500
podcast really shows in

1691
00:53:53,500 --> 00:53:54,750
real life what it's like.

1692
00:53:54,750 --> 00:53:56,791
And if I get one other plug to the other,

1693
00:53:56,791 --> 00:53:59,000
uh, the, uh, my other YouTube channel,

1694
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,375
which is on, uh, law shark guy, we got

1695
00:54:02,375 --> 00:54:04,208
his documentary series. Andrew is working

1696
00:54:04,208 --> 00:54:06,958
on with me to a certain titled searching

1697
00:54:06,958 --> 00:54:08,166
for law sharks, extinctioner live.

1698
00:54:08,166 --> 00:54:11,291
And I tell stories literally. And that's

1699
00:54:11,291 --> 00:54:13,000
a whole other thing for not conversation

1700
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,958
for another time. But I blundered into,

1701
00:54:16,208 --> 00:54:17,750
but it's, it's share stories. And one

1702
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:19,000
thing I have to share it and say about,

1703
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:20,625
you know, being on my point in career and

1704
00:54:20,625 --> 00:54:21,875
you're this next, this next episode is

1705
00:54:21,875 --> 00:54:23,583
kind of, I share a lot of my own personal

1706
00:54:23,583 --> 00:54:24,791
journey and connection with a lot of

1707
00:54:24,791 --> 00:54:26,000
these sharks that we're looking for.

1708
00:54:26,625 --> 00:54:27,791
And the next one, the river sharks

1709
00:54:27,791 --> 00:54:30,375
stories coming up here. Oh man, it's a

1710
00:54:30,375 --> 00:54:33,208
good one. The next 10 days or so. Uh,

1711
00:54:33,208 --> 00:54:35,500
check it out because I, I, I talk in that

1712
00:54:35,500 --> 00:54:36,541
one and share about how the

1713
00:54:36,541 --> 00:54:37,166
whole field of, uh, in person.

1714
00:54:37,208 --> 00:54:39,916
Uh, in part, uh, shark conservation

1715
00:54:39,916 --> 00:54:42,083
started because there was no field when I

1716
00:54:42,083 --> 00:54:43,791
started there was, it's hard for young

1717
00:54:43,791 --> 00:54:45,500
people to think about this and we'll talk

1718
00:54:45,500 --> 00:54:47,250
about this maybe on one of our beyond

1719
00:54:47,250 --> 00:54:49,291
jaws, but there was no field of shark

1720
00:54:49,291 --> 00:54:50,750
conservation when I

1721
00:54:50,750 --> 00:54:51,666
started out in the eighties.

1722
00:54:51,666 --> 00:54:53,250
It just didn't exist. It was not, it was

1723
00:54:53,250 --> 00:54:55,416
not a term at all. So, uh, people didn't

1724
00:54:55,416 --> 00:54:57,458
want to know that much about it. Well,

1725
00:54:57,458 --> 00:54:58,875
and it goes to be asked to go show like

1726
00:54:58,875 --> 00:55:00,166
that work, my work on that,

1727
00:55:00,166 --> 00:55:01,166
doing the editing for that.

1728
00:55:01,166 --> 00:55:03,958
You know, doing the editing for videos,

1729
00:55:03,958 --> 00:55:05,791
doing the editing for podcasting, whether

1730
00:55:05,791 --> 00:55:08,166
they're videos or audio, uh, you know,

1731
00:55:08,166 --> 00:55:09,916
doing social media, doing newsletter

1732
00:55:09,916 --> 00:55:13,500
management, doing webinar management, all

1733
00:55:13,500 --> 00:55:14,708
of these things have

1734
00:55:14,708 --> 00:55:17,000
helped me get this job.

1735
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:17,208
Yeah.

1736
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:19,833
You know, to a point where like I have to

1737
00:55:19,833 --> 00:55:21,583
do, my new boss was like, how have you

1738
00:55:21,583 --> 00:55:23,458
not been hired for this type of job

1739
00:55:23,458 --> 00:55:25,708
earlier? When you, so when someone says

1740
00:55:25,708 --> 00:55:28,041
that to you, you're like,

1741
00:55:28,041 --> 00:55:29,166
okay, like this is kind of cool.

1742
00:55:29,166 --> 00:55:31,291
And then you realize like, I got to start

1743
00:55:31,291 --> 00:55:33,500
talking about more what I do because

1744
00:55:33,500 --> 00:55:35,500
people don't realize, but yeah, like

1745
00:55:35,500 --> 00:55:36,833
that's, that's really what it comes down

1746
00:55:36,833 --> 00:55:38,875
to. And like the, I talked about earlier

1747
00:55:38,875 --> 00:55:40,958
this week in one of our episodes.

1748
00:55:41,166 --> 00:55:43,500
Like if you can't find experience by

1749
00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:46,291
doing a job, you can, there's a lot of

1750
00:55:46,291 --> 00:55:48,500
ways you can do it yourself and, and, and

1751
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:50,333
figure that out as sacrificing. There's

1752
00:55:50,333 --> 00:55:52,041
no doubt about it. For me, it was time

1753
00:55:52,041 --> 00:55:54,666
and some sleep, but for the most part,

1754
00:55:54,666 --> 00:55:56,666
you know, you can do it and, and you can

1755
00:55:56,666 --> 00:55:58,166
do it pretty well and still have a life while you do it.

1756
00:55:58,166 --> 00:56:01,375
Like I, I have to admit, like my podcast

1757
00:56:01,375 --> 00:56:03,833
frequency of publishing is, is a little

1758
00:56:03,833 --> 00:56:06,333
insane and because I love it so much, but

1759
00:56:06,333 --> 00:56:07,750
you know, for most people who want to do

1760
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:09,916
one show a week or one show a month or

1761
00:56:09,916 --> 00:56:11,791
one show every two weeks, it's not as

1762
00:56:11,791 --> 00:56:12,916
it's, it's work, but it's

1763
00:56:12,916 --> 00:56:14,625
not as bad as you think.

1764
00:56:14,625 --> 00:56:17,000
And so, you know, definitely think about

1765
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,583
that because, because communication is a

1766
00:56:18,583 --> 00:56:21,541
big, big growing part of this, of the

1767
00:56:21,541 --> 00:56:24,166
conservation field. So with that said,

1768
00:56:24,166 --> 00:56:24,833
Dave, thanks for

1769
00:56:24,833 --> 00:56:26,166
hosting. I do appreciate it.

1770
00:56:26,166 --> 00:56:28,750
No problem, buddy. And we'll look forward to having you back

1771
00:56:28,750 --> 00:56:31,041
on soon. And I will be asking you the

1772
00:56:31,041 --> 00:56:32,875
questions next time. Okay. All right.

1773
00:56:32,875 --> 00:56:34,666
Thanks a lot. Thanks everyone for joining

1774
00:56:34,666 --> 00:56:37,541
us today. Happy conservation. Bye bye.