Swell AI Transcript: HTPTOE1479ECONCRETE_DrIdoSella.mp3

00:00 SPEAKER_01 Remember when I keep telling people that you don't have to be a scientist to be involved in marine conservation? Well, sometimes you can be in scientists and be involved in a different type of marine conservation and that usually entails starting a business or doing something on a business side or maybe with a nonprofit on like a marketing side or a communication side and It is just as impactful if not more impactful in today's episode We actually have a guest on dr Ito Sella who is a marine biologist who started a company that Builds a different type of concrete for seawalls and underwater structures and he calls the company e Concrete it's a really great idea that I would probably never have thought of it came from his consulting work And it's something that I think we need to talk about and we're gonna hear it directly from Dr. Ito Sella why he started this work and why it's so important to the ocean That's on this episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. Let's start the show Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast I'm your host Andrew Luhn And this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean how you can speak up for the ocean and what you Can do to live for a better ocean by taking action and today we're gonna be talking about taking action and how one person Started a company that helps animals and microbes and bacteria and algae and all these wonderful, you know all these wonderful Not as many not necessarily animals but bacteria and smaller Micro invertebrates that live off of concrete because the concrete is made of specific materials that allow these forms that allow these bacteria that allows these algae that allows these plant materials and maybe even Corals to be able to live off of this concrete. It's called e concrete It's a company that was founded by dr. Ito Sella from Israel he talks about his sort of up-and-coming why he got involved in marine biology Why he got why he loves the ocean so much and how he came upon this idea to create concrete that allowed Biological forms to grow on it, which normally concrete doesn't if you think about how many? Structures that are that are based in concrete that are underwater You know sea walls and and sort of anything that's hard line forming for coastlines it's really important to have these types of structures with a complexity that he talks about as well as You know the materials that allow biological forms to form on it to make it look more natural and be more natural Underwater, so let's get started with the interview. Here's the interview with dr. Ito Sella Enjoy and I will talk to you after Hi, you know welcome to the how to protect the ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about e concrete? I'm happy to be here. I'm looking forward. This is awesome I'm so excited about this because it's not often where I get to speak to not only a marine biologist, but an entrepreneur and This is a very different type of Pro like of company that we're gonna be talking about we're gonna be talking about Concrete that's actually good for the environment and I think a lot of people including myself We take for granted concrete and we see it everywhere But we don't understand the ramifications it has on the environment or the potential ramification has on the environment We're gonna talk about that We're gonna talk about you know You're gonna talk about your careers and marine biologists and what led you to start e concrete and where you're at with the company how it Started and so forth and the research that went by it and the application and all that wonderful stuff But before we get to all the exciting stuff and and actually let's just get into all the exciting stuff

04:00 SPEAKER_00 Can you just let the audience know who you are and what you do? Yeah, sure. So I'm a marine biologist Came from when I did my studies in the Department of Zoology in the Tel Aviv University in Israel Where I actually focused on on corals and different life processes of corals and the way that they colonize structures and The way that the biomechanical properties of them and my And my my college and we took all Finkel Was did her studies with me and and both of us came actually from the from the same lab and

04:39 SPEAKER_01 Together we funded the e concrete ten years ago. That's amazing So what got you interested in?

04:47 SPEAKER_00 Sort of marine biology in general. I was always fascinated with the sea and from very early age I I spent a lot of time No exploring my favorite books were Gerald Darrell and and and and others and and that they are focusing on really observing nature and and and look at the different properties and and fascinating world as as of As I grew up near near the sea and and you know spending so much time in tide pools and in rocky shorelines It was very clear at the early age what I want to do and and what I want to focus on later on I started to sail and and and you know Interactive with different ways of interacting with the sea and and it was a very like a natural process for me to go through the university you go through a life science and then I did my master in in ecology and

05:46 SPEAKER_01 Did my PhD in marine biology quite the story growing up along the coast, you know getting to interact with the coastline in various different ways from not only just kind of exploring in tide pools and so forth but also Sailing I mean that's quite the the childhood. That's that's awesome What was did you did were you always? Extremely like always I guess partial towards corals or was that just something that you got interested in university

06:16 SPEAKER_00 No, it was it's actually funny because In Israel there is an obligatory Service in the army. So so when I when I finished my service I was 21 And basically I started to work as the first mate on a research vessel And which which was amazing because I was basically a service provider to those professors that came from different universities and did a different type of research from Oceanography to a chemical analysis to coral research and any one way it was it was like Going into a conference and choosing and what what what what is what what actually interest you more? So naturally I got more connected to the people you get physiology and study corals etc. So so that's that was my decision point so there was a certain point that I Left working on the boat and decided I'm going into the Academy which was also very weird because For being a colleague of those professors. I've become one of their students So so it was a kind of of a lesson in Being humble and and find your right place and understand Where you are in life? And that actually was was was the time when I met my colleague the late Doctor culture the triple core thinker when we started to work together in the lab and and and actually we started our collaboration very early on when I was when she was in her master and I was with my bachelor degree and I basically

07:57 SPEAKER_01 Started to work together interesting. I kind of want to just go back to when you were on the ship and just after you were you Left the service a Lot of the times like I did the same job very similar to what you did I didn't go into the service But I was I was a marine technician on a research vessel In Louisiana and the Gulf of Mexico and I did very similar We had different people like different, you know teams come on you should say our labs come on and different professors and researchers And they would do research on our boat and I would handle a lot of the sort of the instrumentation and data collection and so forth Definitely I see I I totally connect with you on how cool it was to just work on different projects and just kind of be Exposed to the different different ways you can do science I thought that was it's such a great experience to do and I highly recommend it to anybody who hasn't done it But it is looking to get a career and doesn't know exactly where they want to go But when you you know coming out of the service Did you have and I know a lot of people who go into military service they get out they they gain a lot of Technical expertise and so did the technical expertise that you learn there that provide you with the background and skillset that would and even experience that would help you Handle a lot of the the technical aspects of the job like working with instrumentations It's a little bit of a electronic engineering kind of thing You know if you think about it with all the instrumentations you have did you learn that in the service or did you just kind of?

09:24 SPEAKER_00 You've always had an act for that type of stuff. I Definitely attached that with my service but but I always had this this this this type of of of of exposure to technical stuff Okay, so so But but I completely agree with what you're saying working on a boat specifically a research vessel is allowing you I like just a wide spectrum of Of different niches with within this What we call brain science, so And it's it's it's quite amazing because being and we call it service provider But but but you're a part of the team that is that is taking part of that specific research And and if it's if it's if it's taking down our OVs or or sampling water or sediment for the seabed Or making sure that the divers go down and coming back collecting them as they surface Pulling the samples out you're the first one to see them when they when they pass it serve the samples Supporting them when they they do the processing of the samples. It's it's educating you immensely I'm Going back to what you said. I think that the ability to be a technical person specifically in marine biology specifically if you're stepping into being an entrepreneur is Definitely a benefit. It's it's definitely a benefit being a jack You know a jack of all trades it's it's it's what I'm looking at my my employees now I like those are the type of people that I want to bring in That can handle both technical issues and then jump quickly into being a scientist And and an hour later can communicate the results in a proper way to two different listeners So this is the thing that this is a lot of this was something that I gained

11:21 SPEAKER_01 On being on the boat. Is that something? Like would you recommend for people who are aspiring to be marine biologists? Would you recommend they try a job like other reddit like are there a lot of research vessels in and around like Israel that? That do this type of work like was it a government ship or was it more of a prep? It was it was a joint

11:40 SPEAKER_00 Vessel that was was meant managed by the but they the consortium of universities

11:45 SPEAKER_01 Okay, that's same with mine. That's so cool. That's what it what a coincidence. That's awesome. That's awesome So if like you so would that be something you recommend so like I have the benefit of having you know listeners from all over the world and so people who are listening to this in Israel and who may be looking for Positions is it difficult to get a position like that or even just to kind of get into marine biology as a career in Israel?

12:11 SPEAKER_00 So there's two things like first of all in terms of research vessel at the end. There's the population Israel is less The population Israel is less than in New York so so so Taking that in the account we don't have a lot of research vessels that are servicing servicing the different universities There's a couple of them, but in general I would highly recommend for people to explore that type of positions and and there Several opportunities, you know always opportunities around the world of vessels that are looking for for crew and and it's in its great opportunity jumping into marine biology, I think and And and I and I see it now Israel is an amazing amazing platform for from studying marine science because it's it's It's one of the only places in the world that in in really the in four hours You can you can jump from one of the richest tropical environment in the world the Red Sea And explore temperate environment in the Mediterranean. So for example for us when we run experiments and and we have projects in the Bahamas and And and and drop in other tropical areas. I can evaluate I could test it in the Red Sea It's like three hours drive from our lab And and when I project in New York and I want to validate, you know in temperate temperate condition I can I can do it the 20 minutes by bicycle from the lab. So so so there's not a lot of places in the world that have this availability of resources the marine resources And and and putting this on the side quality of the science in Israel is quite high So so so yeah availability of grants and and your ability to interact with other researchers Published to to to to get access to resources that are needed is is definitely Good. So, yeah

14:21 SPEAKER_01 I love that. I love listening to like how Sort of the the the field of marine biology works and in different countries and Israel's not a country that I've had the opportunity To visit or know a lot about at this point So it's kind of nice to to get it from a person who's been there and lived it and so forth So after you know, you went to university you did your marine biology degree Did you start your the e concrete right after that or did you did you work in?

14:48 SPEAKER_00 Sort of the field for a little bit before you got the idea. So so for us it was it was It was a unique situation because because we we at a certain point We it was very clear from both of us that we want to step out of the Academy and it and and it was during that it Basically, we were at the point that we are studying The the impact of of man-made structures on the marine environment Focusing at the initial neon artificial reef then looking at infrastructure like like like jetties and piers and breakwaters and seawalls and and we developed this notion of there is an and a gap out there in the industry and of applicable tools that can be developed in the Academy that can be used by the industry because because for years that you know people were you know what what are the most common tools for marine biologists and For like the ologist it will be zip ties because it's because using them all the time Yeah, yeah and it's gonna be tiles like different type of tiles that they hang we hang them on rock and we bolted into rocks and we hang on piles and we've and we take to the lab and we look at I can't even think about the number of tiles that I went through and and and explore under the stereoscope so There's this knowledge that you generate but but but it's not going into the industry I'm still seeing people building in in in the same way and And we and as more involved with jumping into ports and we actually can predict that we're gonna see invasive species and low biodiversity And poor water quality and and why the industry is not adopting this this available knowledge in In in the literature and it's such a naive position because nobody in the industry is is Spending time in reading and and and dress like the what marine biologists are generating Yeah, so we came out of the university with with kind of vision and it's of bridging sustainability and development let's take this knowledge and let's find a way to tap into the industry and And that was our our first target and and we actually did didn't thought about concrete and we didn't touch concrete at the time we're focusing and just Working with large infrastructure project and give them the ecological consultant We allowed to reduce their ecological footprint and maybe harness them for providing ecosystem services So we work with utility companies and and and we work with oil and gas Was just it was the era of the gas exploration in the in the Mediterranean So so I was I was I was utilizing my knowledge on in vessels and operating vessels And we did the deep water now deep water analysis and surface before drilling And that was that was the first two years after we jumped we jumped, you know, we stepped out of the university and at the time we did we had a very successful contracts with with You know gas companies and utility companies that that allowed us to work for several months and then for other the other time be Quite flexible with our time and we always had interns and we had students that were working for us So we started to use that force and that's what we like to do is do research So so so explore different projects that we call them side project Yeah, and and at certain point we did a survey on on a power plant and we were diving along the seawalls of that power plant and And for us as marine biologists that deal with infrastructure What we see on concrete seawalls around the world is almost the same as I mentioned earlier We're very poor biodiversity a lot of invasive species And we're like diving along the seawall and suddenly we're getting to this very steep line on the wall and we're crossing and we're doing a transect and a quadrots which are the methodology of assessing biodiversity and And and and Suddenly the the biological image is completely different suddenly we see it, you know, by the first we see species that we didn't sign the rest of the wall more sponges tunicates prior zones and and it's like we're taking notes and and we and we take pictures and images and Sarah and we're stepping out of the water and and one of the and the benefits of working in a places like, you know, Companies and that that everything is very controlled and documented Yes, and we meet the project manager and and we're walking we still wet with our wet suits and we walking along the pier and And and we and I'm asking him you see this line here on the pier when you go into the water We see the completely different biodiversity from this point at this point And and the guy look at you said I don't know anything about biology But what I can tell you if there is a line here on the pier and the line there on the pier It's a casting day and I'm like asking him so naively and I say what do you mean in casting? He said when they cast this pier with concrete Every day they starting a new casting again And there is a separation line between the the new concrete of the concrete that was cast the day before So what you're marking for me now is basically the concrete that was cast at the same day At the same day ten years ago, but it's the same day And We came back and I remember like we were driving back to our lab and and and we're talking and and we say so What happened like like maybe it was a different type of concrete? But we don't know anything about concrete. So so I'm calling him the day after and I said It might be that it's gonna be like a different type of concrete that was cast there or maybe it was it was brought from Different factories or so yeah, and he said, you know what? Let me check because it was way back and I'll come back to you like two weeks later The guy's calling me and said I looked at our data. It's the same It's all the concrete was tested every day every I have this testing Results it was an issue basically brought from the same provider. I don't know. What was the difference? huh, and and and We didn't do anything about concrete So this thing that I never dealt with concrete so both of us it so I found the concrete specialist and I and I gave him A call and I said I am a marine biologist we have like questions regarding concrete from our in construction and And and in the discussion with him, I I understood that there is like several mixes several types of concrete recipes That can be used for my construction And asking okay, so so so what are the most widely used in Israel? And he gave me like ten different recipes Oh, wow that many and and and I and and then I said, okay, so where I can get it is that oh, you know It's the industry is depend on the other that and and I think we intrigued it at a certain point Because said you know what come to my concrete lab I'll batch those mixes for you and then you can do whatever you and then we and then he joined forces with us and And and we cast an experiment we did tiles. That's where we know that's that's where we're familiar So again, we jumped into tiles and we did and we did tiles and we hang them in in different location both in the Red Sea and in training and And and very quickly we notice that that a few of those mixes Have a better recruitment of sessile organisms like corals like oysters barnacles and other Than than the rest in a statistically proven. That's the city specifically difference different Ability so so From this from looking at those mixes we're starting to analyze what are the materials that are appear on those mixes and the other and and we managed to get to this to a certain components that are added in those and though and the and the other and And we had an hypothesis that maybe this is the reason that they are They're performing the same the way that they're performing like it's better substrate for the biology and And of course what we know what like again we're good at writing paper so so we published the results and and we presented the results in a conference in in the US was called the savannah ocean exchange Okay, and and we presented the results of our findings and we were lucky enough that the first raw on this event And Said a person that was like basically the head of the sanctuary system it Noah his name is Dan pasta and and he was heading the sanctuary system of knowing the US and he said I really like your results. I Don't know how I can support you but but but maybe I'll you know if I'm providing with access to all the federal courts in the US and and to Noah's lab Will you be willing to to come and run this experience here because I want to understand the results. I want to see this So we said immediately we said yes And then we came back and we found Our basically our angel investors that that invested in us putting an experiment along the East Coast of the US And we spaced on one based on one paper or more than one at a time One paper and time was the initial the initial results he invited us to run this and and he was like very straightforward They you know, I like the idea. I like the thing work a lot of concrete. We know I want to find out more Yeah, so so we ran The the same, you know But a large scale we increased size and and and we ran the same experiments along the East Coast of the US From Key West to to Savannah, Georgia and around New York in different and even in the red in the Great Lakes in freshwater Where we tested we we we scale it up and also at the same time We ran it again in the Red Sea and in the Mediterranean But but what we did now is we as we say, okay We we believe that it's the material and we know that the material is recruiting more But but also there is the issue of the rugosity the surface the the the complexity of the surface What is more important for marine biologists? Is it a material or or or is it isn't the surface complexity? So so we added that factors into the into the experiments and also what we did in in in this research that we collected larvae of corals and and bryozoans and barnacles and in oysters and we grew them in the lab on On on smooth pieces of concrete and and we checked how the larvae are attaching and connecting and go through Metamorphosis on the surface of the concrete and and we did that in the different in the different sites where we ran also experiments in the water and for three years two and a half years every three months we traveled and sleeping in in the marine labs of along along the coast and and collecting data And and the data was very very clear that we we figure out How can we increase biodiversity and concrete structures? so and so that was the starting point that was basically when when we when we understood that we have a proof of concept and we started to apply the technology in In small scale project like breakwaters small portions of breakwaters for us. Yes, mostly seawalls, etc And and also starting to understand, you know, it was very clear to us that like The amount of concrete in the way, I don't think people understand the amount of concrete in the water So so so 50% of world population resides along coastline Those 50% are actually increasing in size twice as fast as the other half that leave inland and and at the same time we have sea level rise and Increased storm in us. So we're going through a massive massive massive process worldwide. It's called a coastal armoring where we are rebuilding our our waterfronts in a more robust and strong to to face the The new challenges that the environment is putting So When you look at infrastructure worldwide the most common material out there that is used for construction in the marine environment and also offshore is concrete 70% of coastal infrastructure worldwide are concrete face. This is the most available material on earth after water And it's it's actually an amazing material for marine construction because become harder. It's very robust You know can can can can can years service life of 60 years to 120 years design line. So but at the other at the other end of this this is Usually those those structures are associated with a negative impact on the marine environment specifically with yes. I yeah, Cecil communities So so there was this okay What did we figure it out a way to reduce the footprint and yes, we figure it out now How can we apply it into the into the industry and and unfortunately our opportunities always come after disasters? so so Superstorm sanity Did a huge damage to the northeast of the US You know and at the time we already had pilots In New York, we did pilots in in Brooklyn Bridge Park, which is on piles that are supporting peers we did the revetment with with with with that technology and and suddenly there was a rethinking in the US of how do we protect our waterfronts and And do we how do we build better? and in a more responsible and holistic way that can address both social impact and ecology and And we were part of a group that that really that actually, you know jumped on this process And in this group actually now there's a project called leaving breakwaters that are It's a price it's a chain of eight breakwaters that protecting the tip of Staten Island the town of the top novel That was severely damaged during Superstone Sandy and and this project we actually incorporated ecological design and also the use of ecological of Modified concrete because our technology at the end is modifying the local concrete in a way that that can that can Allow it to better support Recruitment and and by doing that better have a better biodiversity And and and this was a you know, the first project that actually For us was a flag project And and that's that's our story since then we are we have more than 40 projects worldwide. We we operate from three different hubs Tel Aviv Barcelona in New York And and and we basically applied a technology into construction so so so we're not doing we are technologies is is we isolated those Those those those materials that are needed in the concrete mix In order basically to stop the leaching out of different components from the from the mix out that is negatively affecting Biology, so what we actually doing is we ceiling and we stopping the leaching process I always example that my best example for people is when when you're working in your neighborhoods and you see a freshly cast concrete How long? It will take for that concrete to grow mosses Yeah, and and usually the answer is years and years and years and and we all we only gonna see mosses growing on concrete after 20 years in Why is it because mosses are are actually sensitive to the chemistry of the concrete in a similar way to Marine organisms so so they need the leaching out of those components to stop before they can start to grow on it So what we do is actually we seal the concrete and we control the leaching out early on allowing those organisms to actually starting to settle and grow on the concrete really a month after after Casting the concrete So so you apply it you apply it before you put it in the water You put it in the water our technology at the end is is based on on two levels one is like a salt and pepper like powders that are added into the local concrete in a very small quantities and And different agents that are applying on the mold or in the surface of the concrete in order to to to create a rugosity One of the things that I did that I did that I didn't finish and I didn't mention is that when we we analyze the results We saw that both the the material composition and the rugosity of the surface has an impact on The ability of the structure to of the substrate to support biology, but when you couple them together There is a Effect effect so you can't you can push that biodiversity really, you know Double and triple and etc as opposed to a control and the reason is super super simple when you just deal with them with the material you get more larvae more babies of corals and oysters and barnacles and other attach themselves and go through metamorphosis on the surface of the substrate but the but then you see In terms of survivorship you'll see there you might see a decrease after a while just because they're they're exposed to perdition and And accumulation of sediment on them and in other factors When we when we basically change the surface of the concrete created create a more complex surface. We create micro nations So so so the the little larvae that is that is that it luckily connected to oil a little overhang Will not be covered with sediments and and because it's a shaded area algae will not grow on it and And she's more protected from perdition. So there's a better chance, right survive

33:38 SPEAKER_01 So if you do both of them together you get a better on the long run you get a better community. Yeah Ridiculous just I kind of want to just go back because Right from the get-go to to be able you know, you don't see this often where You have marine biologists Looking at these construction projects. Usually it's engineers of some sort Who are who are going down surveying making sure that the these seawalls or these structures are intact, you know, do they need? Restoration do they need some work on them? You know and so it's a lot of its inspection things But it just goes to show when you have a marine biologist go one or two go down and dive on these structures and be able to sort of make these observations of Where our species present where species not present and if there's our species present why are they there? It's just that curie that that biological curiosity that you probably wouldn't get From an engineer you might but you probably wouldn't get from an engineer And then for for you and your colleague to follow into This type of area and be like there's an idea here We can we can do something about this and we can like just what that would just probably and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I assume it's with Sort of that scientific brain just being like we can we could do better if there's some species here that can grow all we have to do is figure out why they're growing there and we can just duplicate that or You know scale it to to where all the structures are made the same way whether it be complexity whether it be the materials that go into it This is like it's it's pretty brilliant for what you did Especially when you know as your marine biologist being able to dive on these structures and be able to work with the construction companies about all this this stuff When when you talk about the complexity of the tiles and the complexity of the concrete Normally when we think of like a seawall or breakwater or maybe even just a seawall. It's flat, right? Like it's pretty smooth out When we're talking complexity we're talking about mounds and and ridges and things that are made into the concrete So it's almost looks like a what a reef would look like You know that in terms of the limestone would look like in terms of there's sometimes there's jagged edges Sometimes there's jagged edges sometimes there's smooth edges sometimes it's rounded sometimes You know, there's little caves in it and so for animals to go into it. Is that what we're looking at? That's the complexity that I'm thinking about is that am I going too detailed here or is that on the right track?

36:19 SPEAKER_00 It's actually gonna be more subtle changes And okay, and there is a reason for that. So so okay, so so Again, we provide a solution for the industry for infrastructure. It's right It's not an it's not an add-on. It's it's not it's actually when you cast your port you you build in Yeah, you build it a bit differently than than than casting it straight forward. So But one of the things that is very very important for us is being full compliance with the industry standard with the construction standard So with this with being in food with with with this process of being in full compliance you also need to deal with things like the cover on the rebar and and and Different factors the ability of the concrete to extend chipping or freeze and thaw processes or or or a chlorine penetration Which are like basically chloride from the water that penetrates with the concrete Getting to the steel and and and start a corrosion on the steel. So there's there's different factors that are basically Limit your ability to go super wild and and get the morphology of a reef because it's still a servicing infrastructure So so so the new peers of the port of Rotterdam's Rotterdam are built with with our technology and in Spain the the largest fishing port in Europe Replaces seawalls with our technology But at the same time they're still servicing the fishing vessels or or the commercial vessels that are docking in the port So they're all limitations that you need to work with and again, this is what we do We bridge between sustainability and development. This is our target Yeah, so so it's affecting also what you can do you can it's it's not that you build an artificial reef and you can go Wild with the wild and and and and focusing only in the college. There's a balance here Yeah Most of the project that we work with that we work on has a 60 year design life Which mean that everything supposed to be functioning for six years That if we're dealing with the ones that are not 60 years There's a few that are designed for 30 year design life Which is which in the past was was quite common now most of the projects designed for a longer life period and Now the new generation is designed for 120 years design the new the new dykes in in in the Netherlands Most of the ports that are now in construction are built for a hundred years and more Wow, that's insane So so the liability That is associated with that and also the quality of the of of the construction is completely different Marine construction is the most expensive construction out there. Yeah, so so So so there's there's there's a lot of this is also affecting the ability of the changes that we do when when we are Modifying a seawall we're doing it in a way that will not affect is Is is strength performance etc. We have an entire engineering marine engineering division that that and and we work with different University just just now we're running tests in in in in wave tanks at the University of Madrid University of Ottawa Adelphi University in the Netherlands because you need to check and verify all the time that you're in full compliance with with what the

39:46 SPEAKER_01 Industry needs and specify makes complete sense. I think a lot of people When we think about sustainability, it doesn't matter the product whether it be concrete whether it be apparel whether it be Jewelry, whatever it might be The main thing is you have to please who you're providing it for whether it be like for you would be infrastructure So you're talking about? Government regulations and making sure you're all in compliance, which obviously is a major thing when you're talking about infrastructure So the interesting part here is and actually I should ask you this question because what I'm thinking is with this type of concrete You know you want you don't want the focused like do you want the focus to be on the biodiversity or just you're just saying This falls within compliance Maybe you know within within the budget range of these infrastructure projects and on top of that It provides the biodiversity that that is needed for an ecosystem to function for you not to affect the ecosystem Is that sort of your sales pitch? So the environment piece comes Afterwards and the compliance and the regulations like everything everything will fall into place everything. It will be perfect It's just this added benefit for the environment will be added to this e concrete is is that sort of your Not sales pitch but sort of the benefits of this type of concrete

41:13 SPEAKER_00 There's a few if you look at the the British standard for in construction which like that is like the Bible of engineers since like I think ten years ago They changed the recommendation and they said if you have fouling fouling is the is the is the way that the the engineers will Address the biology that growing on their instructors so so so Do not treat fouling on seawalls and pier piles Because seawalls and pier piles and break waters that have a fouling community or fouling on them basically have a longer service life and And require less maintenance What why is it? Super simple is because of bioprotection the biology that grow on the surface of the concrete actually protected The biology that grown on steel steel pure piles protected The the oyster shell the grown that is attaching itself to the concrete is stronger than the concrete and It's more sealed than the concrete. So so so you actually want to promote this So this is one thing as if you have an acid in the water you want it to be covered with biology It's your interest now the question is what type of biology So everything you put something in the water something will grow on it It's people say I look at my seawalls. There's biology on it. It's right You have about you but when as a biologist when we look at that community, we see that it's composed of invasive species It's we see that it's composed from very few species and we don't see other local species that can grow on it So so it's not a healthy balanced community So what what so our peach is very simple. There's a win-win here You you you incorporate the technology. You're not compromising structural performance You're gaining bioprotection by promoting and having a more robust biological community growing on the surface and protecting your asset and You're starting to provide ecosystem services. So you're increasing biodiversity Diversity you're creating their same ground you bring back filter feeders that actually allow you to Increase, you know that the water quality will go back specifically in basins. Yeah ports It's so important that the filtration capacity of those organisms that are growing on all your walls can create an impact and Then we operate in an environment which is which is more and more regulated Our main market is Europe North America and the offshore in all of them there's environmental regulations so so so when when when when a Developer is working on the waterfront need to be in compliance with different environmental requirements and and sometimes even mitigation requirements And and there is a benefit of including Environmental technologies When those entities need either to deal with mitigation costs or longer permitting process or other so so I must say that in the last Few years the industry is completely changed And and you look now you look at in the UK and now in the UK The UK from November Is Passing in already passed the act is going into active in November But every coastal construction that is that is done on the waterfront Biodiversity will be measured before construction and After construction it need to show at least 10% biodiversity uplift Which which think about a port we need to show that he is increasing biodiversity Usually what we see is that that after a construction project the construction site will have around 60% less biodiversity than before so so so yeah, it's a completely change of Methodology now suddenly in order to be in compliance with those regulations the port authorities the waterfront developers need and Need to go and look for for new technologies And it's exactly the same process that you see for example with electric vehicles But government says from a from that at that point of time You will not be allowed you will not be allowed to use Diesel fuel or diesel engines or other engines and this is what pushed forward The the electric vehicles so there is a process now happening on biodiversity the same the same in a way the same way When we we operate in the North Sea The new leases that are that are being leased for offshore development specifically for wind energy by the Dutch government 50% of the points that are dictating the the the winning bid in the tender is On how they will perform ecologically and what will be the ecological factor that will be included and we're talking about billions

46:29 SPEAKER_01 Projects that are billions of dollars and it's so nice to hear too that that's what governments and sort of projects are looking for Is that the ability to have a benefit net benefit towards the environment? I mean how long you know have we been waiting to hear that has as a marine biologist and environmentalist right? It's nice to see That aspect so so that's really great To have that now this company you said have been has been in in Practice and been in existence for the last 10 years And you've had about six years five or six years of actual application Where have where can like people find e concrete projects just say like me?

47:14 SPEAKER_00 Yeah, so so we work globally because we provide technology so so for example in terms of offshore Gas pipe the gas the transit reality gas pipe which is which is one of the major gas pipe now feeding Europe Crossing the Adriatic from Albania to the tip of Italy is is protected with our technology Power cables that are connecting the Canary Islands are are protecting protected underwater with our technology As I mentioned earlier breakwaters in Staten Island The entrance channel to the port of San Diego Several projects around San Francisco Now several projects in Spain port of Vigo That I mentioned earlier that is replacing its its its seawalls project in France several projects in along the French coast on breakwaters and and revetments Hong Kong We we are being evaluated by the Hong Kong government for four years and found like a leading technology Towards the upcoming land reclamation this year. We're doing our first project in New Zealand Where the technology is incorporated on on on a project is basically infrastructure projects for supporting a railroad that is running along the coast Yeah, there's if you jump into our website There's a map showing showing showing and giving information all all the different projects And there's there's something else that we put out there Because we are data-driven scientifically driven science science based a company We develop a calculator that is it's an impact calculator That can actually based on a database that the scientific database and papers showing what would be your capacity What were your your your environmental impact by shifting? Yeah In working and building in a more responsible way you can you can put the length of your breakwater and the top of the breakwater and the Location and and get a kind of a sense of of the numbers that you can predict

49:27 SPEAKER_01 You've got you've got a game be able to work all over the world like that with this type of technologies absolutely phenomenal First of all congratulations. I know that's not an easy thing to do to get into all these these places It's it's fantastic now I have to ask you know you start off as a marine biologist, and you still say you're a marine biologist Which I love because you are Did when you first started off did you ever think you would be at this point like you know managing and being the CEO of? This multinational company that works all over the world and and has this type of impact Like what was it? What was your mindset back then and would you have like if you met yourself 20 years ago and said yeah?

50:08 SPEAKER_00 This is what I'm gonna be doing. What would you think that that young person would have said at that point? No no no no Just dealing with concrete you know the concrete was right. Yeah, I never thought I'm yeah I It was it's it's a completely You know crazy rides That we're experiencing and it's it's it's it's in a way it's it's it's it's great because because we're we're you know you don't know what's what's behind the corner and There's always surprises and of course with this also tough times Yeah, but but but no no I couldn't even predict this this this this trip this crazy journey There's there's something that may be regarding this Really early on when we develop the technology that we were in in a point How how do we want to operate like do we operate as an NGO? Do we want to write right do we want to operate as a for-profit and One of the things that was that was that was very clear to both of us specifically coming from From the Academy where you actually politely beg for for for grants and and funding for your research is that at that NGO Still Market there is there is a part of money. It might be huge, but but usually it's it's it's not as huge as you want right, and it's limited and it's highly affected by Different factors that don't have any control And and so so so so you might get it you might not get it Usually not gonna get it as You're usually not gonna get as much as you want Yeah, but there is a benefit of being for profit for profit is if you build an environmental and impact company that is for profit it's like an engine that can feed itself and and and our abilities as a company to create an environmental impact is Is by far far far exceeding what we could have managed as an NGO so so as As a company I can say that the breakwaters in Majorca are built with our technology Or or if I can say the new peers in in the port of Malaga are are built And all the underwater surfaces of those those structures are actually supporting biology It's it's it's by far exceeding anything you can achieve Yeah With with funding that is coming as an NGO because we're tapping into large project because we utilizing the surface and the power and the size of those project in order to increase our ability to to to to create an impact and and by being for profit in allowing you also to dictate where you want to when where you want to put your resources and and and and to be more you know to Piggyback on the industry in a way that that

53:24 SPEAKER_01 Is beneficial for both sides, but but it's but it's definitely beneficial for the environment. Yeah. Oh for sure And I love that aspect I know you know you specialize with e concrete or with eco Crete You know underwater structures Are there plans to move into other types of concrete?

53:45 SPEAKER_00 Constructions in the future like residences or anything like that we I mentioned earlier Bosses so so right so so this is like a funny story because because for a period of times when we didn't have Larvies like that like large, you know getting a larvae from from an organism is usually seasonal thing So so when you run your experiments and it's not in this reproduction season Then you need to find out the sources and and as I mentioned the bosses are behaving very very similar to Yes to different organs and the spores are attaching to to the substrate and we can explore their their their ability to grow So so so we actually use bosses as a guinea pig in the lab for testing and by doing this we actually found a way that we can promote the growth of bosses so so so We actually we develop tiles that are used for covering buildings that that that that that can grow mosses really fast And but but but it's it's for us. It's a kind of a shift. It's kind of a step. Yeah, it's a big shift so so it's it's you know, we we basically spin it off to someone and We'll push this forward into the market. It's just product and already product Yeah, we're looking into if you if we if we look into new markets, it's freshwater So so freshwater is a major major major Freshwater ecology is a major issue in all over the world Right and and those fresh water resources sources like like waterways and rivers etc are are highly disturbed and and and Usually have a lot of issues of invasive species limited biodiversity, etc. Oh, yeah We in the process of R&D of expanding into those and hopefully

55:43 SPEAKER_01 In the coming years, we'll be able to provide solution to those markets as well I have one last question or maybe two last questions But you know a lot of people when they start off as marine biologists I mean you you and I it was our dream, right? It was it was absolutely our dream to to become marine biologists to do more research to Find out new things and you definitely have been able to find out new things not in the in a way in the biology aspect But working with concrete Do you ever find that like you regret not staying in sort of more of a marine biology? Research field or are you happy with the way you've been able to apply? Sort of the the sort of the ways of reducing our impact and helping The ocean in general as a marine biologist like do you regret going into this in a way not? I mean you're successful and the company's doing well, and I'm sure there's ups and downs and everything But do you wish like you had stayed as a marine biologist and done research and gone with grants and things like that

56:43 SPEAKER_00 That's a great question because once in a while and step into our biological department And I see our you know our head of our head of biology Sitting there with with with the team and they're discussing you know the the results from a monitoring that they live in that in that project and Analysis of this and and I look at her and I said I actually envy it because you know, you know Your hat you actually have the position that I wanted and I and we created this position And then you took it and then I'm dealing with with with insurance and clients and and and and and Different so so definitely it's happening more often than I thought lately But But but again, I think that once in a while when you when when you get to this that when the project is ending and you're visiting The site and you see the size and you see the results and so it's such a satisfying Moment Yeah, and and you have this yeah one five seconds of saying wow Really good here Before you're going back to to real life. So so so this is what what you know, what try me for Forward but but definitely and and and I'm still Trying to you find the time to publish paper and to be a part of the research and and and we just we published A year and a half ago a beautiful paper with Nova University in Florida Oh nice on on a study we did on on on in Florida and in intertitled habitats And and we publish we publish papers With almost no I would say one or two papers a year on On on the project we do in them and I'm taking part of the writing and the analysis and etc less on the monitoring which I like but right I have less time doing that and But but it's yeah. Yeah, it's it's all about that. It's all about balance. You always want something that you don't have

58:55 SPEAKER_01 Yeah, exactly. It's always greener on the other side. No pun intended in this case One last question here, you know, I have in our audience. There's a lot of young marine biologists You know early career researchers early career scientists and they want you know They're a lot of a lot of the people that I've that I speak with and I interact with from the audience They want to do science they want to do research, but they also want to apply it in ways You know that can help the planet what what based on your experience? What advice would you give them to sort of follow that path because I'm sure a lot of them wouldn't have thought of hey Concrete could be a way of helping to save the environment What would you sort of advise them in doing it? What would you recommend and suggest that they could do to help them lead them towards that path? Whatever their path may be

59:48 SPEAKER_00 I think it's Be completely open-minded And and and you know we I'm we managed to connect construction and marine biology so so so it's it's if you find something that you're you're that is interesting even if it's if it's Really not connected, you know, you know if you at a certain point in your life Think should I go to science or maybe do acting school? I I promise you there is a middle way that you can do science in in an acting school. That's what I'm saying I I truly believe in being an interest learner and and and and if if you don't know

01:00:36 SPEAKER_01 what is your path forward just choose the one that you want to go for it with even if they're not connected and Trust me. You'll find a way to connect them. Love that advice You know, I want to thank you so much for sharing your story sharing your successes and the challenges you face throughout your career I'd love to have you come back on and discuss sort of any of the new technologies or new projects that you're working on and and sort of the ups and downs more of the ups and downs of You know what you have to go through as a business, you know as a business person as a marine Biologist and so forth, you know, this has just been captivating So I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing with us All the the wonderful things about econcrete I'm gonna link to all of the the links that you've provided me so that people can get more Information and follow you and follow the company to to get more information. So I do appreciate you coming on. Thank you so much

01:01:33 SPEAKER_00 No, thank you. It was a great discussion. I truly enjoyed

01:01:37 SPEAKER_01 Thank you, you know for coming on the show and telling us about econcrete Such an interesting business idea and so important to the environment to have a material Such as this type of concrete that will allow biological forms to form on it to colonize on it I think that's something, you know that is needed this type of creativity It comes from doing work and and scientists asking questions How can we better this right people asking questions? How can we make this process better? How can we make this materials better? Sometimes the answer is there sometimes it's not there. It's not always an easy thing I'm sure coming up with econcrete just from the beginnings of it is not an easy Process to go through and so we appreciate Dr. Ito Sella's work and his team's work is continued work to put on these projects all over the world If you want to get more information, I'm gonna put on eco econcrete I'm gonna put the links in the show notes, but if you go to econcrete tech That's tech.com. So Econcrete tech.com you can go to the website. You can also look it up on look up the organization on Twitter Econcrete L Econcrete L you'll be able to find it. You can also find econcrete on LinkedIn But again, I'll put all these links in the show notes. You can check it out for yourself I think it's this is a type of company that I like to align myself with this is a type of company that is Gonna benefit the planet benefit the ocean And also be a company that makes some money and which I think is is what we need. We need more Sustainable companies we need more companies that are gonna challenge the status quo be disruptors within Their industry and do some great things for the ocean and dr. Ito Sella definitely does it So I'm so happy his team reached out to me to have You know on it was such a pleasure to have him on and I can't wait to Talk to him again to have him back on to discuss more about his business More about econcrete and how you know all these things get to put into place. So it's gonna be a very interesting Disruptors within their industry and do some great things for the ocean Discussion another time when we have him on I want to thank you so much Everybody for joining us if you have any questions or comments about this show Feel free to reach out to me. You can reach out on Instagram at how to protect the ocean on Instagram You can DM me or you can reach out to me on threads at how to protect the ocean if you're on threads Let me know how you're loving it if you're loving it And then if you want to share this with somebody you think is gonna get inspired by this show that particular episode Or you want you know somebody to know about this feel free to do so on and then whatever app you're listening to you Can copy and paste the actual episode link and share it with a friend share it with a family member share it with a colleague Whoever you'd like share with your enemies if you really want to But I want you to be able to feel free to just do that because it is for free and it helps us out a lot To expand our audience and to put us in front of people who may not have found us otherwise So thank you so much for those of you who have already done So and for those of you who are going to do so we really appreciate and just thank you for being you and for listening To this episode and supporting the show for however long you've discovered it and however long you've been supporting it I really appreciate it I'd like to put a lot of work into this that my guests like you know put a lot in into Coming on the show and giving a lot of value to you So we appreciate the love that we receive back by listening to the show and sharing it But other than that I want to thank you so much for listening to this episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast I'm your host Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. Have a great weekend. We'll talk to you on Monday and happy conservation