Tuna Sustainability and The Work of the International Seafood Sustainability Foundation

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How much can an organization that's
involved in tuna fishing and making tuna

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fishing sustainable get done in one year?

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Well, that's what we're gonna talk
about on today's episode because I

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have the president of the International
Seafood Sustainability Foundation,

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Susan Jackson, on the episode today to
talk about all the work that they did

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in 2024 and what they plan on doing
in 2025 based on the successes and

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the challenges that they face in 2024.

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We're gonna talk about not only
about transparency, we're gonna

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talk about advocacy and policy.

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We're gonna talk about financial
commitment to science and their

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commitment to science in general.

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Stakeholder engagement workshops,
electronic monitoring and compliance.

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There's so much that we're gonna
talk about on today's episode.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and
this is the podcast where you find

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out what's happening with the ocean,
how you can speak up for the ocean,

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and what you can do to live for
a better ocean by taking action.

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On today's episode, we're gonna be talking
to the president of the International

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Seafood Sustainability Foundation, the
ISSF, Susan Jackson, who is here to talk

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about not only how she became president
of the ISSF and for the last 15 years,

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what they've been able to accomplish,
but what they were able to accomplish

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in 2024 last year, talking about the
annual report, and you're like, Andrew,

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why are you talking about annual report?

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They're boring.

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Like it's just a mouthpiece for
the organization to talk to their

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funders and stuff like that.

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But this is not it.

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At all.

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Susan comes with the receipts
of what they were able to do.

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They have a small staff.

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They were able to accomplish a lot,
not only with just the staff, that

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they have collaborators on all fronts
of the supply chain in sustainable

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seafood, in tuna fishing in general.

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And I think it's amazing.

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This conversation really ignited
my hope for sustainability, my hope

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for collaboration, but also my hope
for private sector funding, being

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able to accomplish so much more
than just waiting around for funding

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to come around, which is not very
available these days in these times.

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And a lot of organizations,
nonprofit organizations are

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suffering because of lack of funding.

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They can't get the work
that they need done.

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ISSF has funding.

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From private sector that are
willing to say, let's put

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our money where our mouth is.

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Let's be able to make
this more sustainable.

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Let's work with not only
fishers, but with vessel makers.

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You know, let's work with RFMOs.

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Let's work with scientists.

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Let's work with advocacy people.

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Let's work with policy
makers and government.

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This is the legit, this is what
goes on in ocean conservation,

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in fisheries management that
we never get to talk about.

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We're talking about on this episode, and
that's why I have this podcast is to talk

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about these wonderful things that are
being done that nobody ever hears about.

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And I think that's really
important to talk about.

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So getting an annual report that's
just put on a website and only

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available for the people who go to that
website who know about that website

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has now transformed into a podcast
where you get to hear about this.

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And I'll tell you, Susan
comes with so much energy.

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I just love it.

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So here is the interview with Susan
Jackson, president of the International

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Seafood Sustainability Foundation,
talking about their 2024 annual report.

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There's so much in here you're
going want to hear all of it.

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Thank you so much for joining us and
I can't wait to talk to you after.

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Enjoy the interview.

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Hey Susan.

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Welcome to the head of
Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about the
International Seafood Sustainability

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Foundation's annual report?

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Hey, Andrew.

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Yes, I absolutely am.

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Thanks for having me here today.

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You bet.

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I'm, I'm very excited for this, and I know
it's weird to say I'm excited about, uh,

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talking about an annual report, because
a lot of times those get published and

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it's, you know, it's like a white paper
and a lot of people will go through it and

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just be like, oh, this is kind of cool.

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But I always go through these reports
and I'm always just like, how in the heck

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did you get all of this done in one year?

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So, we're gonna be focusing on the 20,
24 year, but of course, we're gonna be

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talking a little later on about, you
know, we're already halfway through 2025.

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So, you know, what are the
primary goals for 2025?

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Building on the successes, some
of the challenges that you may

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have faced in 2024 to go to 2025.

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But I think it's interesting to talk
about, you know, your organization's

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work, uh, the ability to get stuff done,
uh, and what you're able to get done.

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So we we're gonna talk a lot of things
like talking about supply chains

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and fads and all this kind of stuff.

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It's, it's gonna be pretty exciting.

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But before we get into all of that,
Susan, why don't you just let us

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know who you are and what you do.

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Thanks.

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Yes.

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I'm Susan Jackson and I am the
president of the International

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Seafood Sustainability Foundation,
or ISSF as we call ourselves.

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I love it now, uh, to be
the president of ISSF.

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What kind of background did you have?

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Like how did this become like your career?

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Mm-hmm.

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Where did it all start?

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Yeah.

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Well, it all started with me being,
what I like to say, a real lawyer.

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Um, I actually practiced real
law, uh, for, um, gosh, about

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12 years and That's awesome.

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A, a number of them or in-house
with the HJ Hines Company

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who owns stares at the time.

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Okay.

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So, and I was assigned to the Starkest
business unit, so I started working

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in tuna in, uh, the late nineties.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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And, uh, just fell in
love with it immediately.

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It's fascinating.

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It's global.

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You know, I've been to.

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A whole bunch of countries I can imagine.

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Um, and no matter what issue speaks to
your heart, tuna touches it in some way.

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I can promise you.

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Um, so I sort of morphed around
in my tuna career from the law

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department to the business side.

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And then Star was a founder
of ISSF and I was the point

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person at StarKist at the time.

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Okay.

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And it just, uh, there were
eight companies and, um, for

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a number of reasons I was.

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The first president of ISSF,
and I've been here ever since.

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Amazing.

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So I'm sort of, I'm, I'm the poster child
for if somebody comes knocking on your

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door and it sounds like an interesting
opportunity, say yes, because you

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never know where it's gonna lead you.

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Well, here, let me ask you the
question, like as it, so you went

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into corporate law, I guess, when you
were, when you were becoming a lawyer.

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Uh, what made you decide to go
into corporate law As a lawyer?

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Yeah.

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Actually I was a litigator,
believe it or not.

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Oh, okay.

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Okay.

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And um, yeah, my specialty was on criminal
defense and plaintiff's civil rights work.

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Oh, interesting.

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And yeah.

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And so some of the cases that I did
in Pittsburgh caught the eye of the

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folks of the Heinz Law Department at
the time, uh, and because they realized

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they didn't have anybody in their law
department that had actually tried a

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case and they had a lot of litigation.

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So it might be helpful to have someone
right on their team that actually

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knew their way around the courtroom.

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So that's kind of, I, I learned some
of the more, uh, you know, corporate

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side of it, but I was still really
doing litigation management and then.

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Uh, the corporate side of star
cast and had, had you had a lot of

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information about tuna before that,
or is this, was this more of a I

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need to adapt, this is the, this is
the company that I'm working for.

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They're all about tuna, so I need
to adapt and figure it all out.

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And then I guess the follow up
question right away to that is like,

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how did you adapt so quickly to it?

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I mean, when I started.

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At Heinz.

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Yeah.

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I thought that light meat, tuna
and white meat, tuna were like

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different parts of the same fish.

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That's, that's how
little I knew about tuna.

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I ate a lot of it, and I knew I
liked tuna, of course, but also

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when you go work for a conglomerate
like Heinz was at the time I had.

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Ketchup cases and tomato paste
cases and pet food cases.

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So you learned that was a fabulous
part of that experience as you

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learned so much about the business.

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And then I became more and more and more
aligned with this, um, tuna business

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unit and started going to plants and
doing procurement contracts and, um, you

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know, other, other things at, at their
facilities around the world and Right.

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Really got a much deeper
knowledge of tuna, the.

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And, and when you started
from that perspective.

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'cause I think it's so interesting,
a lot of the guests that we've had on

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are, are come from a science background
or a conservation background, and

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they are learning it from, you know,
population ecology and, and how to,

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uh, predict populations and look
at fisheries management and look at

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sustainability from the side of science.

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Right.

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And looking at science-based
policy, you are coming it from

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a, a litigation standpoint.

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You're learning about the business and the
corporation, uh, and you're not getting

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it necessarily from the science part.

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You might learn about the science
as you go along, but what was that

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like now, especially, you know,
you know, 12 years of, of working

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with the ISSF, uh, is it 12 years?

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Is that, that's what
you said before, right?

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Uh, 15.

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15, sorry.

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15 years.

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So knowing what you know now, like,
and, and what you learned, did you

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know, a, were you learning about the
sustainability, uh, maybe issues or

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successes that Tuna was having as you
were going through the process of learning

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about the different parts of the business?

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I was, um.

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Back when I was running seafood
procurement for STAR Kiss as part of

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my maneuvering through the corporate
world, it was actually the procurement

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team at Star Kiss that was very active
on the US delegation to the tuna

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regional fishery management meetings.

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So very early on, like within my
first month, I think I went to,

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uh, Apia in Samoa in the middle
of the western Central Pacific.

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Yeah.

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To a meeting a, a big tuna RFMO meeting,
which was the first time I, I learned also

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about how tuna are managed because Right.

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Obviously it's very important for
tuna companies to have a tuna supply.

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And so part of learning about the
business also included learning about

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tuna management and then tuna science.

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That's incredible.

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That's so cool.

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And then now you've been working,
so when you got the opportunity

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to be like president of ISSF, what
was your first reaction to, was

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this something that you've been.

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Had been thinking about, or I guess
like, I guess ISSF was created,

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they asked you to become president.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, were you part of the creation of ISSF?

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Yes.

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Like, were you part of those conversations
and, and like what made you lead towards

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this is what you wanted to do, you
know, full-time from now on, it was the

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opportunity to really start something new.

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Uh, you know, when we started,
we had eight founders, right.

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Um, and roughly at the time we
estimated they were about 50% of

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the tuna that was purchased went
through one of those eight companies.

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So it was a nice number where you could.

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Heard the cat, so to speak, and develop
a vision for a new organization, but also

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you were meaningful at the very beginning.

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Right.

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They were major purchasers
of every species and stock of

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tuna except bluefin globally.

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So we started with the global footprint,
started working in every ocean, um,

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right, right from the beginning.

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We also had a fabulous tuna scientist,
Dr. James Joseph, who mm-hmm.

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Um, died about two years after we
started, but he was our founder and

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he developed for us a scientific
advisory committee with all the

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best tuna scientists in the world.

235
00:10:58,335 --> 00:11:01,725
Again, from a geographic
dispersal and right.

236
00:11:01,905 --> 00:11:03,340
That, that was fabulous.

237
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,815
Um, and I, I do often think back to
those days when it was me, half of a

238
00:11:07,815 --> 00:11:13,755
communications person and you know,
like 40% of Jim Joseph saving the world.

239
00:11:14,925 --> 00:11:15,980
And it was really fun.

240
00:11:16,739 --> 00:11:20,910
Um, and since then, obviously
we've grown from eight founders

241
00:11:20,910 --> 00:11:24,810
to now 24 companies still global.

242
00:11:25,260 --> 00:11:30,750
Um, we have five full-time scientists
on staff, two communicators on

243
00:11:30,750 --> 00:11:36,180
staff, plus Taylor's team, and, you
know, some other, uh, consultants.

244
00:11:36,180 --> 00:11:40,979
And then we have some great, uh,
policy experts as well who help us

245
00:11:40,979 --> 00:11:46,109
with our advocacy and outreach at the
RFMOs who have diplomatic backgrounds.

246
00:11:46,109 --> 00:11:46,199
Right.

247
00:11:46,589 --> 00:11:50,699
So it was, it really was that
thrill of, of seeing that we

248
00:11:50,699 --> 00:11:52,170
could do something meaningful.

249
00:11:52,650 --> 00:11:54,689
Um, but yet started up.

250
00:11:55,265 --> 00:11:59,405
And so this is always an interesting
aspect for me as someone who doesn't

251
00:11:59,405 --> 00:12:02,945
have a lot of experience through
the, the private sector and starting

252
00:12:02,945 --> 00:12:06,845
organizations such as the ISSF, where
that you're focusing in on sustainability.

253
00:12:06,845 --> 00:12:08,225
It's in the word.

254
00:12:08,225 --> 00:12:12,245
And, and a lot of people may look at
something like where companies get

255
00:12:12,245 --> 00:12:16,805
together to find, to, to put together an
organization like this, and they probably

256
00:12:16,805 --> 00:12:18,455
wonder about conflict of interest.

257
00:12:18,455 --> 00:12:22,625
Like these are companies who want tuna,
they want to focus on catching tuna,

258
00:12:22,625 --> 00:12:25,370
but then they've got sustainability in
there, they've got seafood in there, and

259
00:12:25,375 --> 00:12:28,835
they've got these, these keywords that
are really important to a lot of people

260
00:12:28,955 --> 00:12:31,385
that associate it with conservation.

261
00:12:31,385 --> 00:12:35,165
How do you, how does an organization
like yourself where, where you come

262
00:12:35,165 --> 00:12:38,075
from a corporate world where they're
catching tuna and you're working with

263
00:12:38,075 --> 00:12:41,015
a lot of different communities around
the world, as you mentioned, you

264
00:12:41,015 --> 00:12:44,315
have representation from around the
world, scientists around the world.

265
00:12:44,605 --> 00:12:46,705
You know, arguably the
best experts in the world.

266
00:12:47,065 --> 00:12:50,575
And you, you're balancing the
sustainability with the ability to

267
00:12:50,575 --> 00:12:56,065
still have these companies grow, uh,
in terms of, of economic prosperity.

268
00:12:56,545 --> 00:12:58,735
How does that, what,
what's that balance like?

269
00:12:58,735 --> 00:13:02,875
Was that a, a tough thing to do
to, to, to have that balance?

270
00:13:02,875 --> 00:13:03,175
Mm-hmm.

271
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:05,820
Yes.

272
00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:08,880
And you forgot a really other
important factor, which is

273
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,740
competition law, antitrust law.

274
00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:12,480
In the US we call it
the rest of the world.

275
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:12,510
Okay.

276
00:13:12,510 --> 00:13:13,830
Calls it competition law, you know?

277
00:13:13,830 --> 00:13:13,920
Right.

278
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,510
Anytime you get competitors planning
to do something, um, you have to

279
00:13:18,510 --> 00:13:19,800
make sure it's done correctly.

280
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:20,730
Ah, interesting.

281
00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:21,150
Okay.

282
00:13:21,150 --> 00:13:24,480
The eight founders were really visionary.

283
00:13:24,510 --> 00:13:28,015
They knew that tuna stocks,
I should say we knew right.

284
00:13:28,015 --> 00:13:30,060
Um, that tuna stocks needed to be healthy.

285
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,130
'cause if you didn't have
healthy tuna stocks, you weren't

286
00:13:32,130 --> 00:13:33,450
gonna have a business for law.

287
00:13:33,450 --> 00:13:33,630
Of course.

288
00:13:33,630 --> 00:13:33,900
Right.

289
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:40,920
They knew that we needed scientific
advice and we needed to do what the

290
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,510
scientists said, and we needed to help
the governments and the regional fisheries

291
00:13:45,510 --> 00:13:50,730
management organizations that manage
tuna follow the advice of the scientists.

292
00:13:51,210 --> 00:13:54,360
Mm. We could help get the science
more data, we could help make the

293
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,930
science better, but we should also be.

294
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,709
Urging the governments to
follow the scientific advice.

295
00:14:01,709 --> 00:14:05,520
When we started, there was this
breakpoint where one of the regional

296
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,949
fisheries management organizations
had met and failed seven times to

297
00:14:10,949 --> 00:14:14,459
adopt a management measure that
the sci, there was no dispute.

298
00:14:14,459 --> 00:14:18,240
The scientists were saying, you
need to do this, and seven meetings

299
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,620
later, they still hadn't done it.

300
00:14:20,189 --> 00:14:23,459
So we were at a point where it was
clear that something had to be done.

301
00:14:24,089 --> 00:14:28,380
Um, the companies knew that
something had to be done.

302
00:14:28,380 --> 00:14:29,790
They were motivated to do it.

303
00:14:29,969 --> 00:14:31,410
We had great scientists.

304
00:14:31,410 --> 00:14:34,584
The companies knew from day one the
science was gonna tell us what we

305
00:14:34,584 --> 00:14:39,060
needed to do, but also the companies
knew from day one that they couldn't

306
00:14:39,060 --> 00:14:40,530
just say they were doing it.

307
00:14:41,130 --> 00:14:44,340
We needed to, they needed to follow
the scientific advice when they could,

308
00:14:44,970 --> 00:14:48,870
and they needed to demonstrate to the
world that they were in fact doing it.

309
00:14:49,145 --> 00:14:50,485
It would make them more credible.

310
00:14:50,625 --> 00:14:51,045
Mm-hmm.

311
00:14:51,125 --> 00:14:55,920
It would also make us more credible
advocates to the governments when

312
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,285
we were urging them to do something.

313
00:14:57,985 --> 00:15:04,170
So the foundation of ISSF from the
very beginning I think got a lot.

314
00:15:04,170 --> 00:15:04,530
Right.

315
00:15:04,950 --> 00:15:05,400
Yeah.

316
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:10,380
And where a lot of other initiatives have,
have maybe fallen short recently, where

317
00:15:10,380 --> 00:15:14,910
they don't share that commitment, for
example, to clearly demonstrating that

318
00:15:14,910 --> 00:15:16,500
they're doing what they needed to do.

319
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:16,740
Mm-hmm.

320
00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:21,510
Or where, or, and I should say
also credibly or that foundation

321
00:15:21,570 --> 00:15:23,580
of trusting the science.

322
00:15:23,580 --> 00:15:25,200
Investing the science.

323
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:25,290
Mm-hmm.

324
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,800
And just, you know, there have
been many examples where we put

325
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,709
scientists on board vessels and
we're like, go figure this out.

326
00:15:31,709 --> 00:15:33,750
And they come back and they're
like, yeah, we figured that out,

327
00:15:33,750 --> 00:15:35,040
but we found another problem.

328
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,430
And we're like, okay, so
what do we do about that?

329
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:44,369
And, and really that is the ethic
of the work that we're doing.

330
00:15:44,579 --> 00:15:48,630
Find problems, solve problems,
teach fishers how to solve

331
00:15:48,630 --> 00:15:53,310
the problems, and then get the
governments to require that those.

332
00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:55,500
Solutions to be implemented.

333
00:15:55,770 --> 00:15:58,890
I can't tell you how refreshing
it is to hear you say that.

334
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,650
Uh, from, you know, just from a
corporation side, the, you know,

335
00:16:01,650 --> 00:16:05,339
there's a, in conservation there's
a big component to conservation.

336
00:16:05,339 --> 00:16:08,609
You have the science side, you have the
advocacy side and the activist side.

337
00:16:08,939 --> 00:16:13,530
But then a, a lot of times the,
uh, corporation aspect, the,

338
00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:17,640
you know, gets either ignored or
pitted against the other side.

339
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,900
Either they do it on their own or it
happens just in the business that they do.

340
00:16:22,170 --> 00:16:23,910
Uh, and, and that becomes a problem.

341
00:16:23,939 --> 00:16:25,709
And the collaboration really.

342
00:16:26,535 --> 00:16:27,885
Uh, makes things better.

343
00:16:28,064 --> 00:16:29,265
It helps solve problems.

344
00:16:29,265 --> 00:16:30,974
And the one thing that the
private sector is really good

345
00:16:31,125 --> 00:16:32,655
is solving problems quickly.

346
00:16:33,015 --> 00:16:35,175
You know, they, you wanna solve,
as you mentioned, you know,

347
00:16:35,175 --> 00:16:38,775
sometimes, you know, science is,
is, is, is very straightforward.

348
00:16:38,805 --> 00:16:41,925
It's either you, you, you pose a
question, it either answers your

349
00:16:41,925 --> 00:16:44,655
question the way you think it's
gonna answer it, or it answers the

350
00:16:44,655 --> 00:16:46,214
questions a complete opposite way.

351
00:16:46,214 --> 00:16:49,964
It's gonna answer, it's pretty black and
white in terms of, of of the question

352
00:16:49,964 --> 00:16:52,665
that comes out in, in the math and
the statistics that you put forward.

353
00:16:52,694 --> 00:16:55,364
And sometimes you may like the answer and
sometimes you may not like the answers

354
00:16:55,364 --> 00:16:57,285
or it discovers a further problem.

355
00:16:57,285 --> 00:16:59,535
And I love when you're saying it's
like, oh, we found another problem.

356
00:16:59,535 --> 00:17:00,734
We solved this, we found another problem.

357
00:17:01,005 --> 00:17:02,055
How do we solve that?

358
00:17:02,055 --> 00:17:05,984
Like, let's just keep solving problems
as we go along to make things better.

359
00:17:05,984 --> 00:17:11,444
It is so refreshing to hear that because
I can't tell you how many times it's been

360
00:17:11,444 --> 00:17:14,835
frustrating to hear, you know, companies
realize that this could like, 'cause

361
00:17:14,835 --> 00:17:16,155
like, let's be honest, some of the.

362
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:20,580
The problems that come up could impact the
bottom dollars of a lot of the companies

363
00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:22,140
that are involved in in the ISSF.

364
00:17:22,140 --> 00:17:23,580
And that is a hindrance.

365
00:17:23,580 --> 00:17:26,370
And you could ignore certain things
and just continue to going on

366
00:17:26,370 --> 00:17:28,740
the way things are going, which
weren't working in the past.

367
00:17:29,070 --> 00:17:31,920
Or you can say, no, no, we're gonna solve
this and we're gonna figure this out.

368
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,870
We're gonna put all our minds
together, which I think.

369
00:17:34,455 --> 00:17:37,875
In, in my opinion, that's the way we,
we solve problems, is everybody coming

370
00:17:37,875 --> 00:17:41,415
together, the science, the conservation,
the corporations, and they, and

371
00:17:41,415 --> 00:17:44,865
they, they bring it together to have
like a, a true sustainable solution.

372
00:17:44,865 --> 00:17:46,965
I mean, that's the first
part of sustainability.

373
00:17:46,965 --> 00:17:50,475
So I love, and, and I just
love how refreshing that is.

374
00:17:50,475 --> 00:17:51,465
So that's just wonderful.

375
00:17:51,465 --> 00:17:52,395
So I appreciate you.

376
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:52,480
Thank you.

377
00:17:52,485 --> 00:17:54,165
You answering those
questions right off the bat.

378
00:17:54,435 --> 00:17:58,065
Um, it kind of, it definitely gives
us a sense of where ISSF is coming

379
00:17:58,065 --> 00:18:00,105
from and where it wants to go.

380
00:18:00,285 --> 00:18:04,035
Now there are a lot of programs in
each, in, in each of this, and I'm

381
00:18:04,035 --> 00:18:09,645
gonna refer people to, uh, the, the
website iss, uh, do or-foundation.org.

382
00:18:09,645 --> 00:18:11,685
And I'll put it in the show
notes so people can take a look.

383
00:18:11,745 --> 00:18:14,325
But we're looking at tuna conservation,
the fad management, the marine.

384
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:15,770
Ecosystem health.

385
00:18:15,770 --> 00:18:19,910
The PVR lists, the, uh, VOSI,
which I assume is tracking of

386
00:18:19,910 --> 00:18:22,190
ships, uh, uh, bycatch reduction.

387
00:18:22,190 --> 00:18:25,640
There's just, it goes on and on and on,
and, and illegal phishing prevention.

388
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,670
And there's so many things that,
that, that you cover, which is great.

389
00:18:28,670 --> 00:18:32,270
And these are your priorities and
tools, and that's just amazing.

390
00:18:32,270 --> 00:18:35,090
And I remember before we press record,
like we have a small team, but we get

391
00:18:35,090 --> 00:18:37,460
a lot done and, uh, and I love that.

392
00:18:37,465 --> 00:18:37,475
Mm-hmm.

393
00:18:37,670 --> 00:18:41,240
Um, but we're gonna talk today, we're
gonna focus a lot on what you did in

394
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,380
2024, and it's the annual report that
you put out, obviously every year.

395
00:18:45,530 --> 00:18:47,630
Uh, and there's a lot within that.

396
00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:50,480
So I, I want to get started
if that's okay on that.

397
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,080
Um, and I guess for, if you,
when you put out these annual

398
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,280
reports, the first question is.

399
00:18:55,875 --> 00:19:00,435
What do you want people to get
out of this, of this report?

400
00:19:00,824 --> 00:19:01,004
Mm-hmm.

401
00:19:02,145 --> 00:19:05,475
I think the number one
takeaway is the commitment.

402
00:19:05,475 --> 00:19:07,034
It's the effort and the commitment.

403
00:19:07,034 --> 00:19:14,145
This is not a campaigning organization,
this is not, um, an advocacy organization.

404
00:19:14,149 --> 00:19:14,290
Mm-hmm.

405
00:19:14,445 --> 00:19:19,514
We, yes, we do a lot of talking,
but we do so much more than talking.

406
00:19:19,514 --> 00:19:25,965
And it is all that other work that we
do that makes what we say more credible.

407
00:19:26,385 --> 00:19:29,145
And so, and I have the same
reaction and it's usually around

408
00:19:29,145 --> 00:19:33,284
February where I get presented the
statistics from the prior year.

409
00:19:33,554 --> 00:19:35,445
I get exhausted when I read it.

410
00:19:35,445 --> 00:19:40,034
I was like, I, I knew we did a lot,
but until you really see those numbers.

411
00:19:40,635 --> 00:19:46,905
Um, so it is the actual
activity that makes our goal.

412
00:19:47,550 --> 00:19:51,030
Achievable and really
drives the progress forward.

413
00:19:51,030 --> 00:19:51,090
Yeah.

414
00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:55,620
Um, we talked at the beginning about
how important science is to us and

415
00:19:55,620 --> 00:19:57,270
how we're grounded in the science.

416
00:19:57,660 --> 00:20:00,420
Um, it's almost half of our budget.

417
00:20:00,690 --> 00:20:00,780
Mm-hmm.

418
00:20:00,870 --> 00:20:03,990
But that's the amount that
flows through our bank account.

419
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:09,150
That goes to science is a lot, but it's
the multiplier effect that we bring.

420
00:20:09,150 --> 00:20:14,310
We work with other science organizations
and we call them coordinated science

421
00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:18,150
projects, which means one of our
scientists is a co-author or on a

422
00:20:18,150 --> 00:20:22,680
steering committee or part of the
design last year, and that's not

423
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,240
money that goes to our bank account.

424
00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:27,840
Last year, the value of
that was over $13 million.

425
00:20:28,850 --> 00:20:35,360
Um, then we're, we're putting scientists
on boats, or boats are reporting data, or

426
00:20:35,540 --> 00:20:39,590
they're buying equipment and we're putting
scientists and they're reporting data.

427
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:45,500
And so we keep track of the value of
that commitment by industry participants.

428
00:20:45,530 --> 00:20:45,620
Mm-hmm.

429
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:49,399
Who let, let's say, scientists
fuss with what they're doing.

430
00:20:49,639 --> 00:20:49,970
Mm-hmm.

431
00:20:50,595 --> 00:20:55,275
The value of that last
year was over $50 million.

432
00:20:55,275 --> 00:20:55,335
Wow.

433
00:20:55,965 --> 00:21:01,485
And depending upon the research program
in any year, it's ranged from about

434
00:21:01,485 --> 00:21:03,645
30 million to over a hundred million.

435
00:21:03,855 --> 00:21:08,625
Um, obviously years when scientists are
on board, like taking active control,

436
00:21:08,865 --> 00:21:15,735
that costs in kind more than if it's, Hey,
buy these things, buy these materials,

437
00:21:15,735 --> 00:21:20,685
make biodegradable fads, deploy them
in a certain way and send us the data.

438
00:21:20,865 --> 00:21:26,085
That's still some, um, but that's not
as much of an in kind contribution.

439
00:21:26,085 --> 00:21:28,335
So that multiplier effect is huge.

440
00:21:28,725 --> 00:21:31,485
And I don't, I mean, we do real science.

441
00:21:31,515 --> 00:21:34,845
When I say we have five scientists
on staff, yeah, they do a lot of

442
00:21:34,845 --> 00:21:38,325
writing and reading and attending
of meetings and outreach, but they

443
00:21:38,325 --> 00:21:40,095
also do a lot of real science.

444
00:21:40,815 --> 00:21:42,795
The result of that real science.

445
00:21:43,995 --> 00:21:46,695
Was last year, 16 peer reviewed papers.

446
00:21:46,814 --> 00:21:48,495
A lot of people are happy if they do one.

447
00:21:48,495 --> 00:21:49,395
We had 16.

448
00:21:49,395 --> 00:21:49,455
Yeah.

449
00:21:50,024 --> 00:21:54,465
Uh, on top of that we published
seven technical scientific papers

450
00:21:54,465 --> 00:22:02,385
ourself, and some were co-authors of
33 science papers that were submitted

451
00:22:02,685 --> 00:22:07,695
within the tuna regional fisheries
management science ecosystem.

452
00:22:07,695 --> 00:22:09,915
They all have a scientific advisory body.

453
00:22:09,975 --> 00:22:10,064
Mm-hmm.

454
00:22:10,304 --> 00:22:11,774
And some science working groups.

455
00:22:12,044 --> 00:22:14,445
33 additional papers went through that.

456
00:22:15,314 --> 00:22:19,725
Um, we attended 56 science meetings
because you know what the best

457
00:22:19,725 --> 00:22:23,925
advocacy is when your science or
science you've done with others.

458
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:29,250
It's not just us that's saying it, it's
if the science committee of the RFMOs who

459
00:22:29,250 --> 00:22:32,100
have to take the action, recommend it.

460
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:36,629
So it's really important to us to do real
science in partnership with others who are

461
00:22:36,629 --> 00:22:38,669
leaders in the tune of scientific space.

462
00:22:38,955 --> 00:22:39,375
And then.

463
00:22:40,220 --> 00:22:46,610
Get the output of that science as part of
the recommendations that that go before

464
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:49,280
the RFMOs through their science bodies.

465
00:22:49,820 --> 00:22:50,480
Um, gotcha.

466
00:22:50,660 --> 00:22:52,430
I, we talked about the
coordinated science.

467
00:22:52,430 --> 00:22:56,810
There's 36 active coordinated
science projects going on right now.

468
00:22:57,230 --> 00:23:03,050
We did 34 in-person skippers workshops
touching over 500 skippers, and then

469
00:23:03,050 --> 00:23:08,210
another almost 1500 reviewed last
year's version of the material online.

470
00:23:08,450 --> 00:23:12,260
'cause I always say to the scientists,
if somebody on a boat doesn't do

471
00:23:12,260 --> 00:23:14,005
something differently tomorrow Yep.

472
00:23:14,195 --> 00:23:15,245
Then they did today.

473
00:23:16,220 --> 00:23:16,490
Yep.

474
00:23:16,610 --> 00:23:18,260
We're not having an impact.

475
00:23:18,260 --> 00:23:22,430
So that outreach that we do, that's
really robust outreach to the skippers.

476
00:23:22,430 --> 00:23:23,630
First we learn from them.

477
00:23:24,050 --> 00:23:25,730
They tell us their ideas.

478
00:23:25,730 --> 00:23:29,090
This their sounding board for the
scientists who sometimes say, Hey, I

479
00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:33,650
was thinking about, and the skippers
will either be like, yeah, no, or

480
00:23:34,010 --> 00:23:35,330
you might have something there.

481
00:23:35,540 --> 00:23:35,780
Right.

482
00:23:35,810 --> 00:23:39,800
And, but then also we're
helping them keep up.

483
00:23:40,229 --> 00:23:41,669
Because let me tell you something.

484
00:23:42,179 --> 00:23:47,010
Vessel companies are also huge
constituents to governments

485
00:23:47,010 --> 00:23:48,840
when they go to RFMO meetings.

486
00:23:49,084 --> 00:23:49,544
Oh really?

487
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:50,909
Oh, yeah.

488
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,969
Uh, longer than tuna companies actually.

489
00:23:54,060 --> 00:23:54,120
Wow.

490
00:23:54,479 --> 00:24:01,080
Um, so you do well if you talk to
them a lot in advance and get them

491
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,969
comfortable with your ideas, have them
form a part of creating the solutions,

492
00:24:05,969 --> 00:24:09,625
because then when their government says
to them, what do you think about this?

493
00:24:09,965 --> 00:24:10,385
Mm-hmm.

494
00:24:11,310 --> 00:24:14,310
You hope that they say, oh yeah,
I've been doing that for three years.

495
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:15,449
That's a really great thing.

496
00:24:16,199 --> 00:24:20,879
And then it makes it a lot easier for the
governments to agree to require it so that

497
00:24:20,879 --> 00:24:22,919
skipper's outreach is really important.

498
00:24:23,550 --> 00:24:24,000
Absolutely.

499
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:29,969
We have almost 2000 vessels
that have volunteered to be on

500
00:24:29,969 --> 00:24:32,879
one of our vessel lists, which
means our third party auditor.

501
00:24:33,675 --> 00:24:34,485
Audits them.

502
00:24:34,995 --> 00:24:35,175
Annual.

503
00:24:35,175 --> 00:24:37,000
So it's like a certification
in a way, right?

504
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:37,720
Not a certification.

505
00:24:37,940 --> 00:24:38,159
No.

506
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:38,600
Okay.

507
00:24:38,940 --> 00:24:43,215
It it, because it's an audit, a
certification would mean you could only

508
00:24:43,215 --> 00:24:45,885
be on there if you had all, all greens.

509
00:24:46,245 --> 00:24:49,305
It's an informa, it's a
credible information platform.

510
00:24:49,575 --> 00:24:49,995
Gotcha.

511
00:24:50,024 --> 00:24:52,605
So it and it, but it is
an annual audit Yeah.

512
00:24:52,815 --> 00:24:55,095
That the participating companies use.

513
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:59,580
Because they can only be buying
from vessels that comply with

514
00:24:59,580 --> 00:25:00,990
our conservation measures.

515
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,669
But also we hope that real retailers
would make use of it, other NGOs

516
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:09,000
would make use of it as they're
developing their retail advice.

517
00:25:09,479 --> 00:25:12,225
And then you mentioned our V-C-V-O-S-I.

518
00:25:12,485 --> 00:25:12,705
Yep.

519
00:25:13,945 --> 00:25:18,055
That's V stands for vessel, but
in my mind V stands for voluntary.

520
00:25:18,235 --> 00:25:21,325
What are these vessels doing that
they don't even have to be doing

521
00:25:21,415 --> 00:25:23,095
that are like the next wave?

522
00:25:23,335 --> 00:25:25,855
Are they in an MSC certified fishery?

523
00:25:26,125 --> 00:25:28,345
Are they voluntarily providing data?

524
00:25:28,825 --> 00:25:28,915
Mm-hmm.

525
00:25:29,155 --> 00:25:34,735
Are they participating in trials of
experimental fad designs or are they

526
00:25:34,735 --> 00:25:37,735
implementing, um, bycatch mitigation?

527
00:25:37,735 --> 00:25:45,265
So again, these vessels undergo audits
to, to demonstrate that they are on the

528
00:25:45,265 --> 00:25:48,025
water implementing these best practices.

529
00:25:48,715 --> 00:25:52,225
Reg Americas is our third party
auditor and they audit our companies

530
00:25:52,225 --> 00:25:53,665
and they audit all the vessels.

531
00:25:53,860 --> 00:25:54,745
That's amazing.

532
00:25:54,895 --> 00:25:56,035
So let me ask this question.

533
00:25:56,035 --> 00:25:58,015
It's probably one of the most important
questions we're gonna ask today.

534
00:25:58,485 --> 00:26:02,505
Uh, how did you guys figure out how
to have more than 24 hours in a day?

535
00:26:02,535 --> 00:26:06,405
Because it sounds like you guys are
doing way more than, than everybody else.

536
00:26:06,405 --> 00:26:07,425
Like how was this?

537
00:26:07,935 --> 00:26:09,975
No, we used, we used the time
zones and the international

538
00:26:09,975 --> 00:26:11,385
dateline to our advantage.

539
00:26:12,915 --> 00:26:16,245
I mean, like, and, and to do those
science, like to do that you said

540
00:26:16,335 --> 00:26:20,175
mentioned 16 peer reviewed, uh, papers
that were, that were published last year.

541
00:26:20,865 --> 00:26:25,245
I know for some people who are not used
to doing these, these peer reviewed

542
00:26:25,245 --> 00:26:29,475
papers or publishing peer reviewed
papers, that is a, a, a, a really

543
00:26:29,475 --> 00:26:31,545
large number even for an organization.

544
00:26:31,695 --> 00:26:31,785
Mm-hmm.

545
00:26:32,025 --> 00:26:36,405
Um, you know, five scientists, uh, and,
and I assume there's collaborators in

546
00:26:36,405 --> 00:26:40,635
there as well to, to get that published
sometimes takes years to get a paper

547
00:26:40,635 --> 00:26:45,255
published, you know, and so to have those
done, you know, you have to be efficient,

548
00:26:45,255 --> 00:26:46,605
but you really have to know your stuff.

549
00:26:46,605 --> 00:26:47,985
You really have to design.

550
00:26:48,495 --> 00:26:51,735
Those studies really, really
well to ensure that you have

551
00:26:51,735 --> 00:26:52,965
the, the right information.

552
00:26:53,205 --> 00:26:55,335
There's not a lot of review
going back and forth.

553
00:26:55,365 --> 00:26:56,955
'cause as, you know, as soon
as the reviewers see it,

554
00:26:56,985 --> 00:26:58,245
they're like, no, this is good.

555
00:26:58,245 --> 00:26:59,535
Like, we're gonna do it.

556
00:26:59,865 --> 00:27:02,505
Um, how is the, like the setup?

557
00:27:02,505 --> 00:27:06,255
Is it just the five scientists or there
a lot of collaborators with, you know,

558
00:27:06,255 --> 00:27:10,275
universities or colleges around the world
or even other government institutions?

559
00:27:10,425 --> 00:27:12,435
And then how does that collaboration work?

560
00:27:12,735 --> 00:27:16,335
Uh, if, if that's so over, like,
you know, across, like you said,

561
00:27:16,335 --> 00:27:19,755
time zones and, and, and cultures
and, and different professions.

562
00:27:20,415 --> 00:27:23,055
There are absolutely a
lot of other scientists.

563
00:27:23,055 --> 00:27:26,325
In addition to the five we have on
staff, we have our scientific advisory

564
00:27:26,325 --> 00:27:29,715
committee that has I think nine ish.

565
00:27:29,985 --> 00:27:34,665
Um, and they really are the
lead tuna scientist in a region.

566
00:27:34,665 --> 00:27:40,635
So like the Eastern Tropical Pacific,
one of their scientific staff from that

567
00:27:40,635 --> 00:27:45,375
RFMO is, is on our science committee,
for example, or the Secretary of the

568
00:27:45,375 --> 00:27:49,545
Pacific community who's the science
provider for the W-C-F-W-C-P-F-C

569
00:27:49,545 --> 00:27:51,015
in the Western and Central Pacific.

570
00:27:51,225 --> 00:27:52,425
They're on our committee.

571
00:27:52,815 --> 00:27:56,925
Um, we have a bi catch expert who
kind of runs the tuna group at

572
00:27:56,925 --> 00:27:59,925
IRDA French Research Institution.

573
00:28:00,255 --> 00:28:04,095
We work very closely with as D
in Spain and many, many others.

574
00:28:04,515 --> 00:28:04,665
Mm-hmm.

575
00:28:04,905 --> 00:28:07,215
Um, and so it kind of
starts with the staff.

576
00:28:07,605 --> 00:28:09,075
Then it goes to the sac, right?

577
00:28:09,075 --> 00:28:13,515
And then it goes to the organizations
that they work with and through,

578
00:28:13,515 --> 00:28:15,735
and their partner organization.

579
00:28:15,735 --> 00:28:17,865
So there's absolutely a multiplier effect.

580
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,525
I love it, but I love it when you said
sometimes these things take years.

581
00:28:21,525 --> 00:28:25,785
I mean, that is, that is the special
place where I sit because, um, you

582
00:28:25,785 --> 00:28:29,235
know, scientists, they take years
and industry expects it to take

583
00:28:29,235 --> 00:28:30,945
like maybe a week if it's hard.

584
00:28:31,515 --> 00:28:35,625
So, you know, we, we have
these kind of, yeah, yeah.

585
00:28:35,685 --> 00:28:36,015
Right.

586
00:28:36,460 --> 00:28:40,095
Um, so that's the balance, right?

587
00:28:40,095 --> 00:28:44,205
I, you always want to get the peer
reviewed paper, but you also need to be

588
00:28:44,205 --> 00:28:48,375
putting out a technical report, includes
something in a skipper's guidebook,

589
00:28:48,375 --> 00:28:53,055
and start training the skippers on it
so that your science remains robust,

590
00:28:53,055 --> 00:28:57,105
but also you're getting that early
uptake on the water that you need.

591
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:58,050
I love it.

592
00:28:58,110 --> 00:28:58,440
I love it.

593
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,950
Now, we, we've talked a lot about sort
of like one of the, the, you know, the

594
00:29:01,950 --> 00:29:04,620
things that you've, you've covered and all
the things that you've been able to do.

595
00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:06,000
Let's get a little bit more specific.

596
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:12,360
So can you elaborate on, uh, key specific,
like, scientific in initiatives that the

597
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,650
ISF undertook in, in 2024 particularly,
I, I really like the development of the,

598
00:29:16,650 --> 00:29:18,720
of the jelly fad construction guide.

599
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:18,780
Yeah.

600
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,400
Uh, can you talk a little bit about that?

601
00:29:20,940 --> 00:29:21,420
Sure.

602
00:29:21,420 --> 00:29:25,770
So the jelly fad name was
inspired by watching a jellyfish.

603
00:29:25,770 --> 00:29:28,650
You know, if you go to the Monterey
Bay Aquarium, I could spend

604
00:29:28,650 --> 00:29:30,630
all day in the jellyfish room.

605
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:30,632
So Nice.

606
00:29:30,685 --> 00:29:31,860
It is so beautiful.

607
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:32,250
Yeah.

608
00:29:32,340 --> 00:29:38,220
Um, so fads, for whatever reason,
fish like to hang out around them.

609
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,520
Could be a shady spot, could be a
food chain, could be the singles bar.

610
00:29:41,610 --> 00:29:44,580
Nobody really knows, but, but
it is what it is and we just

611
00:29:44,580 --> 00:29:46,410
go with that phenomena, right?

612
00:29:46,410 --> 00:29:49,830
Fishers realized it way back in
the day when I started in tuna

613
00:29:50,220 --> 00:29:52,650
boats would look for birds.

614
00:29:53,220 --> 00:29:55,590
With a helicopter or binoculars.

615
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:56,010
Yeah.

616
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,365
And they would, because usually
under the birds were a bunch of fish.

617
00:29:59,365 --> 00:29:59,765
Mm-hmm.

618
00:29:59,845 --> 00:30:04,500
And oftentimes in the middle of
that bunch of fish was a log.

619
00:30:04,545 --> 00:30:04,965
Mm-hmm.

620
00:30:05,145 --> 00:30:09,330
Or a dead animal or something
that sort of created this.

621
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:13,830
So boats got smart and they put
little radio antennas on those

622
00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:15,120
logs so they can find them.

623
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,500
Again, fast forward humans being
humans, they started creating

624
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:24,060
them and deploying them using old
phishing nets and satellite buoys.

625
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:29,760
And there can be very harmful
'cause they never go away.

626
00:30:30,180 --> 00:30:30,360
Right.

627
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:36,900
So one of the ideas that our
scientists came up with was how to

628
00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:42,480
make them biodegradable so that they
last just long enough to catch fish.

629
00:30:42,780 --> 00:30:42,900
Right.

630
00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:46,110
But not so long that
they don't ever go away.

631
00:30:46,170 --> 00:30:50,640
And I. This project started before COVID.

632
00:30:50,835 --> 00:30:54,270
I, I can't, you know, COVID does weird
things to your concept of time, but I know

633
00:30:54,270 --> 00:30:57,835
it was before COVID and we were testing,
that was like 45 years ago, I think.

634
00:30:58,075 --> 00:30:58,475
Yeah, exactly.

635
00:30:58,585 --> 00:30:58,875
Yeah.

636
00:30:59,015 --> 00:30:59,235
Yep.

637
00:30:59,895 --> 00:31:04,590
We were testing in the Mediterranean
Sea, different ropes and different

638
00:31:04,590 --> 00:31:06,810
fabrics to see how long they would last.

639
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:13,020
Mm. And then started using the
longest fabrics that would biodegrade

640
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:18,150
in the, to look like an old fad,
but there was too much stress.

641
00:31:18,150 --> 00:31:19,890
It was, and so they were failing.

642
00:31:19,980 --> 00:31:25,440
And so then one of our scientists said,
Hey, what if we do something, look

643
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,660
at the, like, like a jellyfish so it
doesn't have that much structural stress.

644
00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:31,020
Right.

645
00:31:31,140 --> 00:31:32,670
Will it last longer?

646
00:31:33,555 --> 00:31:35,055
But still be biodegradable.

647
00:31:35,175 --> 00:31:35,355
Mm-hmm.

648
00:31:35,595 --> 00:31:41,025
Fast forward years of getting vessels
to do the type of research I talked

649
00:31:41,025 --> 00:31:45,795
about earlier where, hey, you buy the
stuff and you buy the buoys and we

650
00:31:45,795 --> 00:31:50,955
want you to, now when you put fads in
the water, put two one like you used

651
00:31:50,955 --> 00:31:54,525
to make and one like a biodegradable
fad that we're gonna teach you.

652
00:31:55,095 --> 00:31:55,185
Right.

653
00:31:55,185 --> 00:31:58,365
And we did those trials in
every ocean to make sure that

654
00:31:58,365 --> 00:32:00,285
they traveled in the same way.

655
00:32:00,825 --> 00:32:03,135
Did they attract fish in the same way?

656
00:32:03,139 --> 00:32:03,280
Mm-hmm.

657
00:32:03,405 --> 00:32:05,115
Did they last long enough?

658
00:32:05,355 --> 00:32:07,065
And we got it.

659
00:32:07,245 --> 00:32:13,455
We got the research to a point that
with, by 2024 we're like, okay, we're

660
00:32:13,455 --> 00:32:15,165
ready to, we're ready to write this up.

661
00:32:15,165 --> 00:32:15,225
Yeah.

662
00:32:15,315 --> 00:32:18,345
Like we've been talking to
skippers, we've been trialing them.

663
00:32:18,405 --> 00:32:25,605
But that fad, biodegradable fad guide
is the combination of six or seven

664
00:32:25,695 --> 00:32:29,925
years of research and many, many.

665
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,340
Sets and fad deployments
by, um, cooperative vessels.

666
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:35,640
Yeah.

667
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:41,070
And the exciting thing is now every
tuna RFMO has implemented a timeline

668
00:32:41,070 --> 00:32:44,880
by which their vessels should be
switching to using biodegradable fats.

669
00:32:45,030 --> 00:32:48,450
So like our scientists came up
with the idea, worked with other

670
00:32:48,450 --> 00:32:50,475
scientists, figured it out, out.

671
00:32:50,475 --> 00:32:52,020
We started advocating for it.

672
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,580
We started working with skippers to
get them to understand and accept it.

673
00:32:56,695 --> 00:32:57,115
Mm-hmm.

674
00:32:57,815 --> 00:33:00,360
And including in our advocacy asks.

675
00:33:00,450 --> 00:33:03,990
And the RMOs now have
timelines for requiring.

676
00:33:04,395 --> 00:33:06,885
Biodegradable biodegradability in fats.

677
00:33:07,725 --> 00:33:10,515
When you said like the guide,
the construction guide.

678
00:33:10,515 --> 00:33:10,605
Mm-hmm.

679
00:33:10,845 --> 00:33:13,485
So are these fats being
made by the fishers?

680
00:33:13,515 --> 00:33:14,505
Like by the vessels?

681
00:33:14,505 --> 00:33:17,145
By the captains or, or, or
the deck hands or whoever.

682
00:33:17,145 --> 00:33:18,495
Like they're being actually made.

683
00:33:18,645 --> 00:33:21,615
So this guide teaches 'em how to make
it and what materials they need to uses.

684
00:33:22,010 --> 00:33:22,490
Fabulous question.

685
00:33:22,995 --> 00:33:23,985
And it varies.

686
00:33:23,985 --> 00:33:24,795
It depends upon.

687
00:33:25,285 --> 00:33:27,115
Where, where the home base is.

688
00:33:27,115 --> 00:33:27,500
Right, right.

689
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:27,780
Okay.

690
00:33:27,780 --> 00:33:31,285
And that is one of the things
that our, one of our scientists, g

691
00:33:31,285 --> 00:33:33,820
Moreno, she's still doing is like
going, talked to her last time.

692
00:33:33,850 --> 00:33:34,700
Different countries.

693
00:33:34,765 --> 00:33:35,125
Right.

694
00:33:35,125 --> 00:33:37,795
And finding what's
locally available there.

695
00:33:37,795 --> 00:33:39,385
Uh, that would work.

696
00:33:39,385 --> 00:33:39,895
Got you.

697
00:33:39,955 --> 00:33:44,305
Because it, you know, you're kind of
ruining the whole environmentally friendly

698
00:33:44,305 --> 00:33:47,605
thing if you're shipping something in
a container halfway around the world.

699
00:33:47,610 --> 00:33:47,701
True, true.

700
00:33:47,706 --> 00:33:53,215
You wanna, you want them to find local
materials that will work, that will

701
00:33:53,215 --> 00:33:57,445
buy at degrade, that will be strong
enough, um, so that it's cost effective.

702
00:33:57,445 --> 00:33:57,535
Mm-hmm.

703
00:33:57,775 --> 00:34:00,655
As well as having the
desired environmental impact.

704
00:34:01,135 --> 00:34:06,475
Um, sometimes there are some fleets that
make them on land because they're mm-hmm.

705
00:34:06,715 --> 00:34:08,815
They fish close enough and they come
back and they direct the deliver to,

706
00:34:08,815 --> 00:34:10,585
to factories that are right on land.

707
00:34:10,915 --> 00:34:14,514
So they've found that the fleets
just go together and they have.

708
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:16,050
Fad production facility.

709
00:34:16,050 --> 00:34:20,190
But there are others that they put all
the ingredients, if you will, on board.

710
00:34:20,190 --> 00:34:23,610
And, you know, that's what they
do on their steaming days out at

711
00:34:23,610 --> 00:34:27,540
sea is they, they make fads and
probably everything in between.

712
00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:28,680
You know what I like about this?

713
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,990
'cause like, you know, what I was
thinking when I first heard about it

714
00:34:30,990 --> 00:34:34,320
is it's like somebody created this like
an engineer and, and, and, you know,

715
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,890
marketed it to the vessels and they
would have to pay for this fad and they

716
00:34:37,890 --> 00:34:41,130
would have to go out and, you know,
it get set at a certain price and that

717
00:34:41,130 --> 00:34:42,630
would go into their operating costs.

718
00:34:42,810 --> 00:34:45,810
What I really like about this
is that they make it themselves.

719
00:34:46,140 --> 00:34:49,710
Uh, it's, it's locally done, but
what I really like is it's like

720
00:34:49,710 --> 00:34:52,020
democratizing the making of this.

721
00:34:52,025 --> 00:34:52,255
Mm-hmm.

722
00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:56,340
And when you, when you start to put all
these different minds together and they,

723
00:34:56,340 --> 00:35:00,360
they're all making a similar device, but
maybe you, like you said, using different

724
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,100
local materials or things like that.

725
00:35:02,645 --> 00:35:06,245
You almost get better and better as you
go along because someone's gonna figure

726
00:35:06,245 --> 00:35:08,254
out something that makes it better.

727
00:35:08,345 --> 00:35:12,694
You know, makes it either last a little
longer or maybe degrade better, or, you

728
00:35:12,694 --> 00:35:14,495
know, maybe attract a little bit better.

729
00:35:14,495 --> 00:35:17,944
And then share that information
across, you know, the, the, the network

730
00:35:18,185 --> 00:35:21,484
and be like, oh, okay, let's see
if we can replicate that over here.

731
00:35:21,484 --> 00:35:25,024
So you're allowing, 'cause these,
these, these fissures are, are

732
00:35:25,265 --> 00:35:26,674
geniuses in their own right.

733
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:27,609
They know the world.

734
00:35:27,810 --> 00:35:27,970
Absolutely.

735
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:29,345
They know these fads.

736
00:35:29,345 --> 00:35:31,415
They know how tuna behave.

737
00:35:31,415 --> 00:35:31,714
Right.

738
00:35:31,714 --> 00:35:33,065
A lot of the times for scientists.

739
00:35:33,305 --> 00:35:37,565
We depend on these fishers to
tell us what's happening locally.

740
00:35:37,565 --> 00:35:37,654
Mm-hmm.

741
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:38,645
Because it's all unique.

742
00:35:38,645 --> 00:35:39,004
Right.

743
00:35:39,214 --> 00:35:43,174
And, and I, I think that's such a
great opportunity to make these feds

744
00:35:43,174 --> 00:35:46,865
even better, you know, and work with
scientists and so forth and be like,

745
00:35:46,865 --> 00:35:49,444
Hey, we've actually figured out something
that catches it a little bit more

746
00:35:49,444 --> 00:35:54,154
efficiently, um, you know, and, and last
a little longer, but then it will degrade

747
00:35:54,154 --> 00:35:55,355
better and all these different things.

748
00:35:55,355 --> 00:35:58,625
I think that's such a great idea
to allow, like just empower the

749
00:35:58,625 --> 00:36:01,384
fishers to make it themselves and,
and make it even better because

750
00:36:01,384 --> 00:36:02,555
they're engineers in their own right.

751
00:36:02,555 --> 00:36:03,095
Let's be honest.

752
00:36:03,095 --> 00:36:06,245
They've, they've made, they've
fixed boats on the, in, in probably

753
00:36:06,245 --> 00:36:08,944
bad seas and things like that,
and they've, they've seen it all.

754
00:36:09,125 --> 00:36:12,245
Um, and I just love the fact that,
that, that allows them to do that.

755
00:36:12,245 --> 00:36:15,245
And I'm sure, um, they're,
I'm sure they're, they're

756
00:36:15,245 --> 00:36:16,984
enjoying that part as well.

757
00:36:17,315 --> 00:36:18,310
Um, absolutely.

758
00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:19,415
So, so that's awesome.

759
00:36:19,565 --> 00:36:20,194
So let's move on.

760
00:36:20,430 --> 00:36:23,134
I, I think it's, it's, it's really,
it's really interesting to, to see

761
00:36:23,134 --> 00:36:25,745
that guide do so well in the dev
develop development of that guide.

762
00:36:25,805 --> 00:36:25,924
Mm-hmm.

763
00:36:26,075 --> 00:36:30,154
Um, now when we talk about, you know,
we're always talking, we're looking

764
00:36:30,154 --> 00:36:31,955
at, uh, at Tuna Fish, we talk about.

765
00:36:32,279 --> 00:36:35,370
Bycatch and, and I, I apologize to the
else, we're gonna be switching to a

766
00:36:35,370 --> 00:36:38,189
lot of things because it's, you guys
covered a lot of things last year.

767
00:36:38,189 --> 00:36:39,990
I want to be able to
cover as much as possible.

768
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,390
Um, so how did the research contribute
to bycatch mitigation, uh, strategies

769
00:36:45,390 --> 00:36:49,439
for species like, like, you know,
sharks, modular rays, uh, and seabirds

770
00:36:49,439 --> 00:36:52,500
Because, you know, a lot of the
times, you know, we see, you know,

771
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:55,020
shark, uh, populations decreasing.

772
00:36:55,259 --> 00:37:00,180
We see, uh, different things happen, um,
with sea birds, but we don't talk a lot

773
00:37:00,180 --> 00:37:05,040
about that in sort of like mainstream meat
wise or when we talk about, um, you know,

774
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,589
saving these, these species as, as biatch.

775
00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:10,620
So, so how did that, that
research contribute to that mi,

776
00:37:10,919 --> 00:37:12,149
those mitigation strategies?

777
00:37:13,095 --> 00:37:19,440
So with a lot of the, especially long
line bycatch mitigation measures,

778
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,600
a lot of those have been known.

779
00:37:21,690 --> 00:37:25,950
And so we were partnering with other
organizations to get the word out

780
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,060
it, you know, we don't just have
skipper's workshops with per se vessels.

781
00:37:30,060 --> 00:37:34,380
We now have a whole skipper's workshop
series with long line vessels, both in

782
00:37:34,380 --> 00:37:42,000
person as well as online, um, materials
available to them so that they too.

783
00:37:42,325 --> 00:37:47,485
Can be learning and refreshing themselves
about the bycatch mitigation measures.

784
00:37:47,875 --> 00:37:53,215
Um, maybe by the time this airs soon, uh,
we'll be adding some new columns to our

785
00:37:53,215 --> 00:37:59,515
VOC that illustrates actual implementation
of some of the bycatch mitigation measures

786
00:37:59,515 --> 00:38:01,585
that are more applicable to long liners.

787
00:38:01,855 --> 00:38:05,125
And we're really excited about
that new rollout for sure.

788
00:38:05,125 --> 00:38:12,565
Um, on the at sea part, we have been
working for a couple of years now

789
00:38:12,565 --> 00:38:19,555
with these nets, the large nets and
the hoppers to help large animals be

790
00:38:19,555 --> 00:38:22,315
released quickly and safely for them.

791
00:38:22,315 --> 00:38:24,205
So that's the manta ray work.

792
00:38:24,655 --> 00:38:27,205
Um, also some of the large
shark work, you know?

793
00:38:27,265 --> 00:38:27,595
Yeah.

794
00:38:27,685 --> 00:38:30,505
Part of the skippers, um, outreach.

795
00:38:31,065 --> 00:38:36,194
For years with all gear types is how
to safely handle a shark safe for you.

796
00:38:36,194 --> 00:38:36,255
Yeah.

797
00:38:36,645 --> 00:38:37,935
Safe for the shark for sure.

798
00:38:38,055 --> 00:38:42,825
It can be done like you have to motivate
them to want to keep the shark safe and

799
00:38:42,825 --> 00:38:44,835
then you have to demonstrate how to do it.

800
00:38:44,980 --> 00:38:45,400
Mm-hmm.

801
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:50,384
Um, the hoppers and using the large
nets for the large animals, these

802
00:38:50,384 --> 00:38:52,755
are things that are showing promise.

803
00:38:52,965 --> 00:38:56,535
We, this, it, it's hard to do
the absolute research 'cause they

804
00:38:56,535 --> 00:38:58,515
don't encounter them that often.

805
00:38:58,815 --> 00:38:58,935
Mm-hmm.

806
00:38:58,935 --> 00:39:03,194
So you need a scientist on board that
does encounter them, that's able to put

807
00:39:03,194 --> 00:39:07,995
a tag on them to make sure that when you
try this technique, they actually live.

808
00:39:08,295 --> 00:39:11,775
Um, these are all the, the
fun parts of real science.

809
00:39:12,194 --> 00:39:14,715
Um, but they're showing great promise.

810
00:39:14,715 --> 00:39:20,685
It also would involve some costs on
the part of the boats to, to modify

811
00:39:20,685 --> 00:39:22,455
their boats with these techniques.

812
00:39:22,515 --> 00:39:24,404
But we're happy with how.

813
00:39:24,975 --> 00:39:29,325
Those research cruises have gone and
we've made some good progress in 2024

814
00:39:29,325 --> 00:39:31,964
on, on those large animals as well.

815
00:39:32,265 --> 00:39:35,020
I think you highlight something really
important too, in terms of, uh, you know,

816
00:39:35,020 --> 00:39:38,009
the fishers handling the sharks, it.

817
00:39:38,565 --> 00:39:41,775
There's a lot of stuff that
can go wrong at sea when you're

818
00:39:41,775 --> 00:39:43,275
fishing just at sea in general.

819
00:39:43,335 --> 00:39:44,895
Yeah, I, I kind of mentioned it before.

820
00:39:45,135 --> 00:39:47,655
Conditions are never perfect,
uh, and usually when things

821
00:39:47,655 --> 00:39:48,795
go bad, conditions are bad.

822
00:39:49,125 --> 00:39:52,095
You know, that, that's, that's
usually, uh, contributes to that

823
00:39:52,485 --> 00:39:54,495
to handle a shark at sea, I.

824
00:39:55,250 --> 00:39:58,279
Whether you're in large ways
or whether it's flat surface,

825
00:39:58,460 --> 00:40:00,290
uh, it, it doesn't matter.

826
00:40:00,890 --> 00:40:02,930
The, the fisher has to protect themselves.

827
00:40:02,930 --> 00:40:05,900
It's like a occupational health and
safety, but you're dealing with a

828
00:40:05,900 --> 00:40:09,920
shark of various size that has a lot
of teeth that are very sharp and you

829
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:11,360
can actually hurt yourself a lot.

830
00:40:11,630 --> 00:40:14,570
So I think it's really important to teach
them like, look, this is, these are the

831
00:40:14,570 --> 00:40:19,279
ways, the best practices to handle sharks,
um, the best that you can at sea, and to

832
00:40:19,279 --> 00:40:21,020
protect yourself and to protect the shark.

833
00:40:21,140 --> 00:40:22,250
I think that's really important.

834
00:40:22,250 --> 00:40:26,330
'cause that could lead to just killing
the shark and throwing it overboard if

835
00:40:26,330 --> 00:40:29,930
somebody's not feeling safe and handling
a live shark and trying to save it.

836
00:40:30,110 --> 00:40:32,570
And so I think it's important
to talk about that and to

837
00:40:32,570 --> 00:40:33,680
have that, those discussions.

838
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,940
What's the feedback when you get that,
that your staff gets, when they start

839
00:40:37,940 --> 00:40:42,080
to talk about, you know, safety in
handling, uh, sharks or other marine

840
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,400
species that could be dangerous.

841
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,350
What's the feedback to
the fishers at that point?

842
00:40:46,070 --> 00:40:47,535
I think that they understand mm-hmm.

843
00:40:47,615 --> 00:40:49,490
That, that it is definitely important.

844
00:40:49,490 --> 00:40:53,630
A lot of them are also
fishing in areas where, uh.

845
00:40:54,765 --> 00:40:57,165
Shark encounters are,
are regulated, right?

846
00:40:57,165 --> 00:40:57,225
Yeah.

847
00:40:57,555 --> 00:40:59,290
And, uh, true, so true.

848
00:40:59,295 --> 00:41:00,795
So they want to do it right.

849
00:41:01,425 --> 00:41:05,355
Um, you have to make sure that they
also understand there are other, you

850
00:41:05,355 --> 00:41:07,575
know, that it, it's not a low priority.

851
00:41:07,635 --> 00:41:10,335
Don't just leave them sitting
over there till you're all done.

852
00:41:10,425 --> 00:41:10,695
Right.

853
00:41:10,695 --> 00:41:13,890
Like you, the faster you get them back
in the water and that's where mm-hmm.

854
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,325
Some of the boats, I, I think the
French started this have almost two,

855
00:41:17,625 --> 00:41:20,865
they have two conveyor belts where
the, the tuna goes on one and they can

856
00:41:20,865 --> 00:41:23,895
immediately pull out the bycatch and
it goes on the other and it goes right

857
00:41:23,895 --> 00:41:26,295
out back in the water immediately.

858
00:41:26,475 --> 00:41:26,655
Right.

859
00:41:26,685 --> 00:41:30,855
Again, that's, that's a, that's a vessel
design issue that, that's a big thing.

860
00:41:30,855 --> 00:41:32,535
You can't just like bolt one of those.

861
00:41:38,925 --> 00:41:42,045
A lot of the conversations
that, that are going on.

862
00:41:42,045 --> 00:41:44,685
I, um, I love how you, I
went shark tagging once.

863
00:41:44,685 --> 00:41:45,285
Fun fact.

864
00:41:45,285 --> 00:41:48,225
This is another great
perk of my, of my job.

865
00:41:48,315 --> 00:41:51,075
Melanie Hutchinson is a
superstar shark scientist.

866
00:41:51,195 --> 00:41:51,405
Right.

867
00:41:51,495 --> 00:41:54,735
Um, and when she was doing her PhD
and, and we helped support it, I

868
00:41:54,735 --> 00:41:58,515
was in Hawaii for some meetings
and, and she took me shark tagging

869
00:41:58,515 --> 00:42:00,375
and we tagged a very large shark.

870
00:42:00,375 --> 00:42:07,420
And this is, I, I got so much respect for
Melanie, for shark scientists in general.

871
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:07,940
Mm-hmm.

872
00:42:08,025 --> 00:42:11,835
And really this is when I learned that
if you get your PhD in marine biology,

873
00:42:11,835 --> 00:42:15,555
you're actually seasick every day for like
somewhere between five and seven years.

874
00:42:15,885 --> 00:42:19,515
Because it's like very fine motor
skill to tag those sharks while

875
00:42:19,515 --> 00:42:20,325
the waves are going like this.

876
00:42:21,345 --> 00:42:21,495
Yeah.

877
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:22,665
It was fabulous.

878
00:42:22,665 --> 00:42:23,265
And yeah.

879
00:42:23,265 --> 00:42:25,245
You know, that was in a
controlled environment.

880
00:42:25,450 --> 00:42:25,740
Yeah.

881
00:42:25,745 --> 00:42:25,965
Yeah.

882
00:42:26,115 --> 00:42:27,165
Not on a fishing trip.

883
00:42:27,605 --> 00:42:27,905
No.

884
00:42:27,995 --> 00:42:29,255
Yeah, it's, it's insane.

885
00:42:29,285 --> 00:42:29,915
It's insane.

886
00:42:29,915 --> 00:42:32,435
When you, when you think
about the, you know, a lot of

887
00:42:32,435 --> 00:42:33,305
people don't think about that.

888
00:42:33,305 --> 00:42:36,035
When we talk about being in the
field, every, every scientist is

889
00:42:36,035 --> 00:42:37,085
like, I love being in the field.

890
00:42:37,385 --> 00:42:40,985
It comes with, its, its,
its challenges, you know?

891
00:42:40,985 --> 00:42:43,835
And, and a lot of that time is, is safety.

892
00:42:43,895 --> 00:42:47,135
Even just like when, I remember
when I, just, a quick story here.

893
00:42:47,135 --> 00:42:50,225
When I first went, I, I worked in the,
when I first graduated, I worked in

894
00:42:50,225 --> 00:42:53,735
the Gulf of Mexico, uh, and I worked
as a marine technician on a boat.

895
00:42:53,825 --> 00:42:58,145
And I'll never forget, I was standing,
uh, in, at, on the, on the stern

896
00:42:58,145 --> 00:43:01,505
of the ship and I was just standing
in a way where we were tied up to,

897
00:43:01,595 --> 00:43:04,340
uh, an oil rig, just where Gulf of
Mexico, there's a lot of oil rigs.

898
00:43:04,340 --> 00:43:04,490
Mm-hmm.

899
00:43:04,570 --> 00:43:07,655
We're tied up to an oil rig, and
there's a line that I'm standing in

900
00:43:07,655 --> 00:43:10,715
line with the line, like with the
rope that's attached to this rig.

901
00:43:11,165 --> 00:43:13,505
And I remember the captain coming up
to me, he's like, you need to move

902
00:43:13,505 --> 00:43:15,425
right now, and I'll explain after.

903
00:43:15,575 --> 00:43:16,475
And he goes, move over here.

904
00:43:16,475 --> 00:43:17,465
I'm like, okay, what's going on?

905
00:43:17,645 --> 00:43:22,210
He's like, if that line snaps,
that's coming right back and

906
00:43:22,295 --> 00:43:24,275
that will split you in two.

907
00:43:26,250 --> 00:43:32,940
Just standing in the wrong spot, you
know, if you're not aware, can be deadly.

908
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,150
You know, and I think that's, that,
it just kind of, I always tell people

909
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:40,140
that it goes to show how dangerous,
not only from a scientific perspective,

910
00:43:40,140 --> 00:43:41,850
but also from a fishing perspective.

911
00:43:41,850 --> 00:43:45,960
It is to be out there and to be how
aware these fishers are and these

912
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:47,580
scientists are being out there.

913
00:43:47,850 --> 00:43:52,950
Uh, and then being able to develop these
skills to tag a, a large shark who doesn't

914
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:56,190
want to be outta the water for very long,
wants to be back in the water, scared,

915
00:43:56,190 --> 00:43:59,370
is worried, and then you put it in, you
put the, you do all your things that

916
00:43:59,370 --> 00:44:02,130
you have to do, and then you put the
tag on and you put it back in the water.

917
00:44:02,310 --> 00:44:05,850
To do it in a slickly split
is, is a tough thing to do.

918
00:44:05,850 --> 00:44:10,500
So, uh, like you said, the motor skills
to like tag that on Yeah, it's, it's a.

919
00:44:10,705 --> 00:44:13,555
Definite, uh, challenge in, in itself.

920
00:44:13,585 --> 00:44:16,375
Uh, but that it, it, it's great
to see, you know, you get to

921
00:44:16,375 --> 00:44:17,634
experience all these things.

922
00:44:17,634 --> 00:44:20,755
You get to really understand it from a,
um, like, you know, somebody who's the

923
00:44:20,755 --> 00:44:24,805
president of an organization may not be
able to do that e every day and, and that

924
00:44:24,805 --> 00:44:26,335
they're able to do that is, is great.

925
00:44:26,335 --> 00:44:28,645
'cause you get that perspective,
that scientific perspective,

926
00:44:28,645 --> 00:44:29,575
which I think is important.

927
00:44:29,575 --> 00:44:29,815
Right?

928
00:44:29,995 --> 00:44:30,865
Yeah, absolutely.

929
00:44:31,915 --> 00:44:32,305
That's awesome.

930
00:44:32,305 --> 00:44:35,424
Let's move on to, to electronic
electronic monitoring and compliance.

931
00:44:35,455 --> 00:44:35,545
Mm-hmm.

932
00:44:36,055 --> 00:44:41,845
Um, you know, what progress is made in
2024 regarding the adopting of, I'll

933
00:44:41,845 --> 00:44:46,555
call it, em, electronic monitoring
standards for the RMF or RFMOs.

934
00:44:46,735 --> 00:44:50,095
Uh, you know, there it seems that,
like that's always a difficult thing.

935
00:44:50,095 --> 00:44:53,634
There was a study that came out, uh,
where a lot of the fishing vessels

936
00:44:53,665 --> 00:44:55,705
around the world haven't, aren't tracked.

937
00:44:56,095 --> 00:44:58,855
Um, you know, electronic
monitoring is, is important.

938
00:44:59,035 --> 00:45:01,404
Uh, can you just talk about what
electronic monitoring is in this

939
00:45:01,404 --> 00:45:04,944
context and then what progress
is made in 2024 about that.

940
00:45:05,549 --> 00:45:05,910
Yep.

941
00:45:07,140 --> 00:45:12,359
So electronic monitoring is a set of
pieces of equipment that goes on a boat.

942
00:45:12,359 --> 00:45:16,169
It is absolutely cameras, but
it's also other sensors that

943
00:45:16,169 --> 00:45:18,089
measure location and speed.

944
00:45:18,089 --> 00:45:24,060
And if your hydraulics are, are running,
so you want to make sure that the cameras

945
00:45:24,060 --> 00:45:28,200
are set up in a way to capture all the
phishing activities, but also you have

946
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,939
those other sensors that can help you
figure out what's, what's going on.

947
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,740
Um, there are some fisheries that
have been using electronic monitoring

948
00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:39,450
successfully for a very long time.

949
00:45:40,095 --> 00:45:43,965
It really had not gotten much
traction in tuna fisheries.

950
00:45:44,265 --> 00:45:48,945
Way back in like 2011, we did
one of the first electronic

951
00:45:48,945 --> 00:45:53,265
monitoring trials with Archipelago
onboard a large scale per saner.

952
00:45:53,295 --> 00:45:53,685
Yeah.

953
00:45:53,685 --> 00:45:58,395
To see and large scale per Sanders
have a hundred percent human observers.

954
00:45:58,605 --> 00:45:58,785
Right.

955
00:45:58,785 --> 00:46:03,195
But we wanted to investigate, I mean,
a human observer is not everywhere.

956
00:46:03,195 --> 00:46:04,335
24 true.

957
00:46:04,395 --> 00:46:05,565
Seven get to sleep sometimes.

958
00:46:05,570 --> 00:46:05,590
Right.

959
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:08,355
They have to sleep, sometimes
they get sick, they get to

960
00:46:08,355 --> 00:46:09,285
eat, like, you know, yeah.

961
00:46:09,495 --> 00:46:12,915
They can be up above deck and
the cool stuff is happening

962
00:46:12,915 --> 00:46:14,895
below deck or, or vice versa.

963
00:46:15,315 --> 00:46:20,685
So we did a study to see what things
that electronic monitoring could

964
00:46:20,685 --> 00:46:23,415
do as well as a person, some things
that could do better than a person.

965
00:46:23,415 --> 00:46:29,805
And then what, what do you need a
person for long liners had been, uh.

966
00:46:30,660 --> 00:46:33,900
Successfully using electronic
monitoring for longer than that

967
00:46:33,900 --> 00:46:35,400
because the action's slower.

968
00:46:35,475 --> 00:46:38,815
You know, on a purer, you open
that braille and like Woo falls

969
00:46:38,815 --> 00:46:40,049
down, tons of duna goes right down.

970
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:40,529
Yeah.

971
00:46:40,529 --> 00:46:44,279
Where a long liner is one by one,
you're taking whatever animal

972
00:46:44,279 --> 00:46:45,480
is off the hook, off the hook.

973
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,819
And you've got, you know, here's
your camera, here's where they're

974
00:46:47,819 --> 00:46:50,190
taking them, pulling in the line
and taking them off the hook.

975
00:46:50,730 --> 00:47:01,650
Um, from 2011 through 20 15, 20 16,
there was a global environment facility

976
00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:08,009
Tup project, part of which was doing
trials of long liners on board per

977
00:47:08,009 --> 00:47:12,810
se, vessels and long liners on, uh,
electronic monitoring on per se, looking

978
00:47:12,810 --> 00:47:17,700
at the fleet in Ghana and on long
liners looking at the fleet in Fiji.

979
00:47:18,270 --> 00:47:20,520
Those trials went on
for three or four years.

980
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:22,560
Still not a lot of uptake.

981
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:23,160
Hmm.

982
00:47:24,029 --> 00:47:28,380
Um, there's was then a second
and we're now in a second

983
00:47:28,380 --> 00:47:30,000
global environment facility.

984
00:47:30,645 --> 00:47:37,215
Program that was designed to bring
the tuna RFMOs together and get

985
00:47:37,215 --> 00:47:39,075
serious about electronic monitoring.

986
00:47:39,135 --> 00:47:44,355
Most importantly, harmonizing globally
the standards and specifications

987
00:47:44,355 --> 00:47:45,975
for electronic monitoring systems.

988
00:47:45,975 --> 00:47:46,395
Makes sense, right?

989
00:47:46,395 --> 00:47:51,735
You have to say, if you want a government
or a science body to receive electronic

990
00:47:51,735 --> 00:47:55,335
monitoring, it needs to be like this.

991
00:47:55,785 --> 00:47:58,755
Not prescriptive, but like what
are the characteristics of the

992
00:47:58,755 --> 00:48:00,075
system that make it good enough?

993
00:48:00,915 --> 00:48:09,765
Well, I'm happy to report that between 20
22, 21, 22, when the Global Environment

994
00:48:09,765 --> 00:48:16,305
Facility Project presumed three workshops
where we'd bring and ISF is leading

995
00:48:16,305 --> 00:48:21,495
this work, bring the RFMOs together to
start aligning and harmonizing, mm-hmm.

996
00:48:21,735 --> 00:48:26,205
On these technical specifications
to the end of 2024.

997
00:48:26,475 --> 00:48:27,705
The RFMOs all did it.

998
00:48:28,170 --> 00:48:34,350
They all passed between the end
of 23 and the end of 24 basic

999
00:48:34,350 --> 00:48:38,940
specifications for electronic
monitoring systems in their region.

1000
00:48:39,870 --> 00:48:42,000
There's still some harmonization
that needs to be done.

1001
00:48:42,420 --> 00:48:44,610
Some say it's voluntary.

1002
00:48:44,610 --> 00:48:46,020
Some say it's a trial.

1003
00:48:46,020 --> 00:48:47,760
Some say it's only for science.

1004
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,880
Some say it could be used for compliance.

1005
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:52,890
Some say it's only for long line.

1006
00:48:52,890 --> 00:48:56,190
You know, like there are
still differences to work out.

1007
00:48:56,250 --> 00:48:56,340
Mm-hmm.

1008
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:02,550
But the exciting thing about this
is the RFMOs lapped what the Global

1009
00:49:02,550 --> 00:49:06,000
Environment Facility Tuna Project
was thinking they were gonna be.

1010
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,880
So we're now looking at these
three workshops that we'll be

1011
00:49:09,540 --> 00:49:11,520
doing over the next three years.

1012
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:17,400
We had the first one last December
as accomplishing much more than was.

1013
00:49:17,865 --> 00:49:18,675
Originally designed.

1014
00:49:18,675 --> 00:49:18,765
Mm-hmm.

1015
00:49:19,095 --> 00:49:23,205
And this is because, you know,
things, things start slowly

1016
00:49:23,205 --> 00:49:24,615
and then it happens fast.

1017
00:49:24,615 --> 00:49:24,675
Yeah.

1018
00:49:24,675 --> 00:49:29,535
And all of that pre-work and talking about
it in trials and working with fleets and

1019
00:49:29,535 --> 00:49:34,904
other NGOs getting on board and the Nature
Conservancy has done a ton of work at, at

1020
00:49:34,904 --> 00:49:39,465
a national level, reaching out to them to
get them to start requiring it on vessels

1021
00:49:39,465 --> 00:49:41,445
that fish in their waters, tuna vessels.

1022
00:49:41,865 --> 00:49:46,215
Um, and the Tuna Transparency pledge that
they spearheaded signed first by Walmart

1023
00:49:46,215 --> 00:49:52,305
and now others, that by 2027 they want all
of the tuna that they sell to be on board.

1024
00:49:52,305 --> 00:49:56,025
A vessel that had a hundred
percent monitoring, knowing that

1025
00:49:56,025 --> 00:50:00,375
electronic monitoring needed to
pay, play a large part in that.

1026
00:50:00,855 --> 00:50:01,305
Um.

1027
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:08,970
2024 was kind of that, that momentous year
in, in that all four have done something.

1028
00:50:08,970 --> 00:50:09,030
Yeah.

1029
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:13,500
Now we need to move it forward and
it's, it's a great success story.

1030
00:50:13,530 --> 00:50:18,390
'cause this again is the work of
scientists, governments, NGOs,

1031
00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:23,280
industry retailers, all kind
of pushing for the same thing.

1032
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,190
And it's starting to
happen really fast now.

1033
00:50:26,340 --> 00:50:30,000
When I think that, like, if you think
about electronic monitoring in general,

1034
00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:33,930
and, you know, and Fishers, fishers don't
like, like, they like to do what they've

1035
00:50:33,930 --> 00:50:38,220
done, you know, for generations and,
and they don't want somebody necessarily

1036
00:50:38,220 --> 00:50:39,960
watching over their backs all the time.

1037
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:41,280
They're like, we are doing stuff.

1038
00:50:41,310 --> 00:50:43,290
They, you know, they want people
to know that they're doing

1039
00:50:43,290 --> 00:50:45,450
stuff for the good of the ocean.

1040
00:50:45,450 --> 00:50:46,530
They wanna fish forever.

1041
00:50:46,530 --> 00:50:48,360
They want to be able to
do that kind of stuff.

1042
00:50:48,390 --> 00:50:51,510
Electronic monitoring, to me would've
been a very difficult thing to get

1043
00:50:52,020 --> 00:50:56,700
vessels and, and fishers to adopt
the fact that you're able to do that.

1044
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,770
You know, through the RMOs across
the world, like as you said, there's

1045
00:51:01,770 --> 00:51:07,140
still some work to be done, but to
lap the GEF in the program and to

1046
00:51:07,140 --> 00:51:08,549
say, Hey, we actually got this done.

1047
00:51:08,850 --> 00:51:09,839
That's phenomenal.

1048
00:51:09,870 --> 00:51:11,759
Like that, that is really phenomenal.

1049
00:51:11,759 --> 00:51:13,980
I didn't think when you sort
started telling this story, I was

1050
00:51:13,980 --> 00:51:15,149
like, yeah, no, that didn't work.

1051
00:51:15,180 --> 00:51:15,930
That's not gonna work.

1052
00:51:15,980 --> 00:51:18,210
And but it is like, it does, it does work.

1053
00:51:18,210 --> 00:51:21,569
And I think, you know, as part of
compliance, as part of like these

1054
00:51:21,569 --> 00:51:26,430
rules and having everybody on board as
you just listed off all the different

1055
00:51:26,430 --> 00:51:30,390
people, all the different parts of
the supply chain on board allows

1056
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:32,430
that to be adopted a lot faster.

1057
00:51:32,669 --> 00:51:35,189
Uh, allows it to be like,
look, this is not just watching

1058
00:51:35,189 --> 00:51:36,120
over the work that you do.

1059
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,540
This is to make sure that everything is
done properly and, and everybody in the

1060
00:51:39,540 --> 00:51:41,250
supply chain is responsible for that.

1061
00:51:41,515 --> 00:51:44,725
And I think it's a, it's a, it's a
great thing to do and everybody, it, it

1062
00:51:44,725 --> 00:51:47,155
just, it helps with the transparency.

1063
00:51:47,155 --> 00:51:51,085
It helps with the say, Hey, look, we're
advocating for the conservation of

1064
00:51:51,085 --> 00:51:54,565
these species even though, you know,
we're taking some, we're making sure

1065
00:51:54,565 --> 00:51:57,145
that we can fish forever and these
are the ways that we're doing it.

1066
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:01,615
I, I really, really think that's, that's
a powerful message, especially when you

1067
00:52:01,615 --> 00:52:05,935
have everybody on board across the line,
across the supply chain to say yes.

1068
00:52:05,935 --> 00:52:07,105
Like, this is what we're gonna do.

1069
00:52:07,825 --> 00:52:08,965
Phenomenal work.

1070
00:52:09,385 --> 00:52:09,565
Yes.

1071
00:52:10,015 --> 00:52:10,375
Thank you.

1072
00:52:10,375 --> 00:52:10,735
Amazing.

1073
00:52:10,735 --> 00:52:12,415
In, in, I love that.

1074
00:52:12,865 --> 00:52:13,615
That's powerful.

1075
00:52:13,615 --> 00:52:14,515
Like everything, you're right.

1076
00:52:14,515 --> 00:52:17,600
It takes a lot of talking to vessels
of course to vessel owners, you know,

1077
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,875
making them understand that this is
not cameras all over the boat, right?

1078
00:52:21,085 --> 00:52:22,105
Just where you're fishing.

1079
00:52:22,435 --> 00:52:26,515
This is, you know, the vessel
owners actually love it.

1080
00:52:27,359 --> 00:52:29,430
Really because they own
this boat that's Yeah.

1081
00:52:29,460 --> 00:52:30,990
Way far away from them.

1082
00:52:30,990 --> 00:52:32,455
And it, yeah.

1083
00:52:32,634 --> 00:52:38,339
You know, yeah, sometimes I, I have some,
I have friends that, um, have a house on

1084
00:52:38,339 --> 00:52:41,850
a lake and they have a little camera on
their deck and they, they like to pull

1085
00:52:41,850 --> 00:52:43,560
up their camera and watch the sunset.

1086
00:52:43,890 --> 00:52:48,600
I mean, there, there is just
this human, um, pleasure.

1087
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:48,660
Yeah.

1088
00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:49,740
I, I guess for right, for sure.

1089
00:52:49,770 --> 00:52:56,040
So, so, so they can, both the skippers
recognize that it can actually be helpful.

1090
00:52:56,355 --> 00:52:56,505
Yeah.

1091
00:52:56,505 --> 00:52:59,505
For them, if they get accused of doing
something that they didn't do, and yep.

1092
00:52:59,625 --> 00:53:01,185
The owners same way.

1093
00:53:01,185 --> 00:53:05,805
And also the owners, I, I think,
really get jazzed about being able

1094
00:53:05,805 --> 00:53:09,285
to just take a peek and see what,
see what their team's doing today.

1095
00:53:09,645 --> 00:53:14,475
Um, so, but it's very scary when
you first talk about it, for sure.

1096
00:53:14,565 --> 00:53:18,135
Definitely takes some getting used
to, but, um, yeah, really, really

1097
00:53:18,135 --> 00:53:19,755
optimistic about where this is going.

1098
00:53:19,875 --> 00:53:20,955
So powerful.

1099
00:53:21,285 --> 00:53:23,595
Now you mentioned at the beginning
of this, when we, when I first asked

1100
00:53:23,595 --> 00:53:26,295
that question of like, what were the
priorities, what were the highlights

1101
00:53:26,295 --> 00:53:29,925
of 2024, you mentioned, uh, an
an enormous amount of workshops,

1102
00:53:29,925 --> 00:53:31,785
34 workshops to be specific.

1103
00:53:31,785 --> 00:53:31,875
Mm-hmm.

1104
00:53:32,145 --> 00:53:34,305
Uh, for tuna fishers worldwide in 2024.

1105
00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:39,465
I know there's a lot of specifics that
can go into that, and we can probably do

1106
00:53:39,615 --> 00:53:42,675
34 episodes for each, for each workshop.

1107
00:53:42,705 --> 00:53:45,945
Um, but today we're gonna be talking
like, what were the primary objectives

1108
00:53:45,975 --> 00:53:50,055
and then like, you know, the outcomes that
come out of those, of those workshops.

1109
00:53:50,890 --> 00:53:55,275
So there's the main curricula
if, if you will, right.

1110
00:53:55,275 --> 00:54:01,425
The, that most participate in,
which is the bycatch mitigation.

1111
00:54:01,425 --> 00:54:06,135
A little bit about RFMOs, the kind of the
basics about, um, regulatory compliance,

1112
00:54:06,135 --> 00:54:11,385
some, some issues and ways, ways to fix
'em, if it's a per se, and how to make

1113
00:54:11,385 --> 00:54:13,425
a biodegradable fad, that sort of thing.

1114
00:54:13,605 --> 00:54:13,815
Yeah.

1115
00:54:13,905 --> 00:54:18,465
But we had a few topic specifics as well.

1116
00:54:18,525 --> 00:54:25,335
One, we worked with, um, tuna Con and
WWF Ecuador to bring globally groups

1117
00:54:25,335 --> 00:54:27,555
together to talk about fad retrieval.

1118
00:54:27,555 --> 00:54:32,895
Um, so if they're not biodegradable fads,
how do you get them out of the water?

1119
00:54:32,895 --> 00:54:32,984
Right.

1120
00:54:32,984 --> 00:54:36,254
And how do you design a
fad retrieval initiative?

1121
00:54:36,585 --> 00:54:42,705
And then we had four other regional
dialogues about fad retrieval,

1122
00:54:42,794 --> 00:54:45,165
again with the vessel community.

1123
00:54:45,345 --> 00:54:50,475
So, so that was one, um, another
longstanding piece of research.

1124
00:54:50,475 --> 00:54:55,245
So boats or fads have eco sounder
buoys on them that until pretty

1125
00:54:55,245 --> 00:54:59,294
recently just says, yep, there's
a bunch of stuff there, or, Nope.

1126
00:54:59,415 --> 00:55:00,794
Nothing on this one.

1127
00:55:01,185 --> 00:55:01,365
Right.

1128
00:55:01,365 --> 00:55:05,805
Well, WeWork did a lot of research to
come up with the acoustic signature

1129
00:55:05,865 --> 00:55:07,515
for the different species of tuna.

1130
00:55:07,515 --> 00:55:07,544
Ah.

1131
00:55:08,024 --> 00:55:13,154
And then now we're working with the buoy
manufacturers to make smart buoys and

1132
00:55:13,154 --> 00:55:18,555
then doing training to skippers about what
these buoys can do and how to use them.

1133
00:55:18,884 --> 00:55:20,444
So that's another kind of.

1134
00:55:21,435 --> 00:55:22,440
Corridor of those workshop.

1135
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,920
Remember gall mentioned last
time, I wanna into that.

1136
00:55:25,150 --> 00:55:26,040
It's hugely exciting.

1137
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:26,240
Yeah.

1138
00:55:26,260 --> 00:55:27,855
And it's harder, it was harder to do.

1139
00:55:27,855 --> 00:55:29,175
Yellowfin was a tricky one.

1140
00:55:29,175 --> 00:55:32,085
Took us a long time to get
the, get the Yellowfin one.

1141
00:55:32,085 --> 00:55:33,915
So, so that's another one, right?

1142
00:55:33,915 --> 00:55:37,845
Working with the buoy manufacturers
and then talking to the skippers.

1143
00:55:37,845 --> 00:55:41,560
And, and this will get more robust
probably in the coming years now, right?

1144
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:41,720
Of course.

1145
00:55:42,645 --> 00:55:42,825
Of course.

1146
00:55:42,825 --> 00:55:46,515
These more sophisticated
buoys are available to you.

1147
00:55:46,605 --> 00:55:50,985
Here's how you make the best use of the
information that you're being given.

1148
00:55:51,405 --> 00:55:57,225
Um, so yeah, it's different
topics that just like that.

1149
00:55:57,225 --> 00:55:57,228
Just like that.

1150
00:55:57,555 --> 00:55:58,545
Just like that.

1151
00:56:00,405 --> 00:56:01,005
That's awesome.

1152
00:56:01,005 --> 00:56:04,455
I think, and I think that's important
because like these workshops contribute

1153
00:56:04,455 --> 00:56:10,215
to something, you know, bigger
into that broader, sustainable, you

1154
00:56:10,215 --> 00:56:11,955
know, tuna fishing practices, right?

1155
00:56:12,045 --> 00:56:12,135
Mm-hmm.

1156
00:56:12,525 --> 00:56:17,415
Um, and, and so like when you, when you,
when you guys plan a workshop, there's

1157
00:56:17,415 --> 00:56:19,275
a lot of detail that goes into that.

1158
00:56:19,695 --> 00:56:20,085
Um.

1159
00:56:20,460 --> 00:56:25,890
How do you measure the success of these
workshops at, by the end of it, you

1160
00:56:25,890 --> 00:56:30,870
know, is it just the, the delivery of
the curricula, or is it more of like the

1161
00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:35,940
sentiment afterwards by the, the vessel
owners and the fishers and so forth?

1162
00:56:37,110 --> 00:56:38,580
Um, there's a couple different metrics.

1163
00:56:38,790 --> 00:56:40,020
Metrics of success.

1164
00:56:40,350 --> 00:56:43,500
Uh, first of all, like all good
scientists and professors, they ask

1165
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:49,110
their students for a little feedback
and we have a really comprehensive

1166
00:56:49,110 --> 00:56:54,600
questionnaire now, and it's right not
only feedback on the, the workshop

1167
00:56:54,600 --> 00:57:00,570
itself, but itself, the ideas presented
their thoughts, places for them to, to

1168
00:57:00,570 --> 00:57:02,880
talk about issues they're encountering.

1169
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,580
So it, it helps the scientists as well.

1170
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:05,670
Okay.

1171
00:57:06,270 --> 00:57:09,450
Also, kind of like on a scale of
one to five, how good of an idea

1172
00:57:09,450 --> 00:57:13,290
do you think it this is, or how
comfortable are you doing it?

1173
00:57:13,290 --> 00:57:16,860
And we can watch those
scores improve over time.

1174
00:57:16,860 --> 00:57:16,950
Mm-hmm.

1175
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:21,570
You know, when we first started talking
to the skippers about the notion of

1176
00:57:21,570 --> 00:57:24,450
biodegradable fads, it was not popular.

1177
00:57:24,750 --> 00:57:25,230
Hmm.

1178
00:57:25,470 --> 00:57:30,480
And also, not surprisingly, it
was going nowhere in our advocacy,

1179
00:57:30,810 --> 00:57:34,145
but by around year three or four.

1180
00:57:35,445 --> 00:57:40,005
When we had more trials going at sea,
when the skippers had maybe heard

1181
00:57:40,005 --> 00:57:44,595
about this two or three times, had a
little time to noodle it, you started

1182
00:57:44,595 --> 00:57:50,265
seeing that acceptance go from red
to yellow to maybe light green, maybe

1183
00:57:50,265 --> 00:57:52,125
not dark green, but you light green.

1184
00:57:52,515 --> 00:57:55,910
And once it hit that
light Greenpoint point.

1185
00:57:55,935 --> 00:57:56,445
No, shocker.

1186
00:57:56,445 --> 00:57:56,710
That's right.

1187
00:57:56,715 --> 00:57:59,445
The R fm OS also started taking action.

1188
00:57:59,450 --> 00:58:00,110
So of course.

1189
00:58:00,115 --> 00:58:04,155
So it takes a while, but you, we
can mark progress of an issue.

1190
00:58:04,515 --> 00:58:09,615
And then our ultimate definition of
success is if an RFMO is able to get the

1191
00:58:09,615 --> 00:58:14,115
needed consensus to adopt a conservation
measure requiring something that.

1192
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,450
Our scientists feel should be required,
our scientists and other scientists.

1193
00:58:18,660 --> 00:58:19,080
Yeah.

1194
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:19,590
Yeah.

1195
00:58:19,590 --> 00:58:20,250
No, that's huge.

1196
00:58:20,250 --> 00:58:21,390
I think that's really important.

1197
00:58:21,390 --> 00:58:26,070
And it is, it's great to be able to track
how the sentiment is changing over time.

1198
00:58:26,070 --> 00:58:26,885
I think that's mm-hmm.

1199
00:58:26,985 --> 00:58:27,960
That's really great.

1200
00:58:28,260 --> 00:58:31,770
Um, you know, we, we talked a lot
about, you know, from the, the vessel

1201
00:58:31,770 --> 00:58:33,930
aspect and from the Fisher aspect today.

1202
00:58:34,260 --> 00:58:38,940
Um, but there, in the report, uh,
it mentions that, you know, 90%

1203
00:58:39,210 --> 00:58:44,640
alignment between the IFFI sfs,
you know, priorities with those

1204
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,460
nearly 50 other environmental NGOs.

1205
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:49,080
That's a lot.

1206
00:58:49,110 --> 00:58:54,600
And, and let's, let's be honest here, like
this, ISSF is a, is a con, is a, is a,

1207
00:58:54,660 --> 00:58:59,100
a, a, a collaboration and an organization
that's formed by corporations.

1208
00:58:59,340 --> 00:59:02,910
You wouldn't think, you'd think that
the big controversy with ISSF is

1209
00:59:02,910 --> 00:59:04,680
the fact that it's corporate based.

1210
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:09,420
And so it wouldn't align well with
the priorities of environmental NGOs,

1211
00:59:09,420 --> 00:59:10,770
especially when it comes to tuna phishing.

1212
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,950
To be able to get 90% in
alignment is a huge feat.

1213
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:15,690
How was that done?

1214
00:59:15,990 --> 00:59:20,160
Uh, and how does it advance
ISS F'S advocacy efforts?

1215
00:59:20,460 --> 00:59:20,640
Mm-hmm.

1216
00:59:21,210 --> 00:59:25,365
So when ISSF first started there,
there was one other factor, uh, uh,

1217
00:59:25,530 --> 00:59:29,130
that was kind of pushing everyone
to realize we needed an ISSF.

1218
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,090
And that is because the NGOs
were all over the place.

1219
00:59:33,150 --> 00:59:37,890
Mm. And businesses were afraid to do, to
move in one direction for fear that they

1220
00:59:37,890 --> 00:59:39,840
would be attacked by a different NGO.

1221
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:41,525
Makes sense for doing that.

1222
00:59:41,525 --> 00:59:41,805
Makes sense.

1223
00:59:41,810 --> 00:59:43,800
And, and so it was chaotic.

1224
00:59:43,830 --> 00:59:44,460
Mm-hmm.

1225
00:59:44,700 --> 00:59:49,020
Um, we had, and it, that wasn't just to
businesses, that was also to governments.

1226
00:59:49,020 --> 00:59:49,350
Like, yeah.

1227
00:59:49,350 --> 00:59:53,100
That was just, would you, you know,
all, you all go tell us what you want.

1228
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,720
Um, so in addition to our scientific
advisory committee, we were, we

1229
00:59:58,230 --> 01:00:01,650
created right at the very beginning,
an environmental stakeholder committee,

1230
01:00:02,130 --> 01:00:06,390
um, world Wildlife Fund, both in the
US and international were founders.

1231
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:12,765
Um, when we started, um, they brought
together, uh, FishWise and SFP and

1232
01:00:12,990 --> 01:00:20,340
Monterey Bay Aquarium, uh, and the Global
Tuna Alliance and TNC, uh, you know,

1233
01:00:20,580 --> 01:00:22,440
Marine Stewardship Council's on there.

1234
01:00:22,830 --> 01:00:23,940
And so.

1235
01:00:24,660 --> 01:00:29,010
That sharing and talking in
time and starting to work

1236
01:00:29,010 --> 01:00:30,330
on projects together helped.

1237
01:00:31,110 --> 01:00:37,740
And then the foundation community,
uh, started funding that the Monterey

1238
01:00:37,740 --> 01:00:41,790
Bay Aquarium started called the Global
Tuna Alliance because as you said,

1239
01:00:42,180 --> 01:00:48,270
ISSF, um, partners very closely with
industry and there were many NGOs

1240
01:00:48,270 --> 01:00:50,970
that were not comfortable with that.

1241
01:00:51,780 --> 01:00:55,830
So to get around that problem, we now have
a different organization called the Global

1242
01:00:55,830 --> 01:00:58,890
Tune Alliance that has 40 or 50 NGOs.

1243
01:00:58,890 --> 01:01:04,200
Now, the requirements to join that
are, you either or both have to

1244
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:06,360
have a, a retail partner mm-hmm.

1245
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:11,640
That buys tuna, uh, or be an accredited
observer to one or more tuna RFMOs.

1246
01:01:13,830 --> 01:01:19,890
So that too has really helped the NGO
Tuna Forum works at, you know, what are

1247
01:01:19,890 --> 01:01:24,420
the top three, four, no more than five
asks for each RFMO meeting, getting as

1248
01:01:24,420 --> 01:01:27,540
many NGOs as possible to align on that.

1249
01:01:27,630 --> 01:01:29,070
We participate in that

1250
01:01:31,170 --> 01:01:38,100
and more NGOs, I think, have realized
that having a common voice on, forget

1251
01:01:38,100 --> 01:01:43,560
about what your ultimate goal is,
what's your goal for this meeting?

1252
01:01:43,590 --> 01:01:49,440
What's reasonable to accomplish in
this meeting given the agenda, given

1253
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,670
the work that has come out in the
last year of their working groups,

1254
01:01:53,970 --> 01:01:56,970
focusing on that necessary next step.

1255
01:01:57,095 --> 01:01:57,515
Mm-hmm.

1256
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:02,700
That too was, was a lot of work to get
this many groups to realize that yeah, we

1257
01:02:02,700 --> 01:02:06,450
can all have our ultimate goals and we can
make statements about the ultimate goals.

1258
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,330
Even the N GT uniform has
said a hundred percent.

1259
01:02:10,050 --> 01:02:13,050
Observation on all industrial tuna boats.

1260
01:02:13,050 --> 01:02:14,790
So that's an ultimate goal.

1261
01:02:14,850 --> 01:02:15,060
Yeah.

1262
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:20,820
Um, but being clear about your
timeline, building upon the work that

1263
01:02:20,820 --> 01:02:24,720
the RFMOs are doing in the next steps
has really, so it's not like we said,

1264
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:26,790
Hey, this is what we're asking for.

1265
01:02:26,790 --> 01:02:28,320
And 90% agreed with it.

1266
01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:33,600
It's that we are actively engaging
in a body of work with the NGO

1267
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:38,430
community that's working on tuna
issues and the whole community is

1268
01:02:38,430 --> 01:02:42,360
getting aligned, which is also making
it a lot easier to make progress.

1269
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,870
'cause you don't have, if, if people
are saying five different things, that's

1270
01:02:45,870 --> 01:02:47,550
a really good reason to do nothing.

1271
01:02:48,495 --> 01:02:51,314
But if everybody's saying the same
thing, it's really hard to do nothing.

1272
01:02:51,765 --> 01:02:55,035
And, and Susan, isn't that amazing
how that, that works so well?

1273
01:02:55,035 --> 01:02:57,884
When everybody's aligned and
everybody's like, let's, let's, it is

1274
01:02:57,884 --> 01:02:59,444
also, it's like, let's be realistic.

1275
01:02:59,444 --> 01:03:02,625
Yes, we have these ultimate goals,
but let's, what can we do now?

1276
01:03:02,955 --> 01:03:04,185
How do we progress?

1277
01:03:04,214 --> 01:03:06,765
How do we progress to that ultimate goal?

1278
01:03:06,975 --> 01:03:09,674
Uh, let's do it together and
here are the steps that we've,

1279
01:03:09,944 --> 01:03:11,685
you know, found successful.

1280
01:03:11,774 --> 01:03:13,274
Here are the steps that
you found successful.

1281
01:03:13,274 --> 01:03:15,794
Let's try and amalgamate those,
collaborate on those, and

1282
01:03:15,794 --> 01:03:18,915
let's build it for who knew
collaboration would do so well.

1283
01:03:19,350 --> 01:03:19,700
Right.

1284
01:03:19,959 --> 01:03:22,515
You know, I think it's, I I love that.

1285
01:03:22,515 --> 01:03:22,607
What a concept.

1286
01:03:22,649 --> 01:03:22,939
Yeah.

1287
01:03:24,555 --> 01:03:25,154
I love that.

1288
01:03:25,154 --> 01:03:25,484
Now.

1289
01:03:25,484 --> 01:03:29,259
Um, look, transparency is such a
huge thing in fisheries, uh mm-hmm.

1290
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,194
And, uh, especially when it's,
uh, we look at accountability

1291
01:03:33,194 --> 01:03:34,484
in the tuna supply chain.

1292
01:03:34,785 --> 01:03:37,935
So now with the proactive
vessel register, the PVR.

1293
01:03:38,399 --> 01:03:39,779
Reaching an all time high.

1294
01:03:39,779 --> 01:03:43,680
I think it's, I think in the report
said 1,739 vessel registrations.

1295
01:03:43,740 --> 01:03:43,859
Yep.

1296
01:03:43,950 --> 01:03:47,640
How does this tool enhance transparency
and, and the tuna supply chain?

1297
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:51,149
And let's just before you do that,
even to define what PVR is and then

1298
01:03:51,149 --> 01:03:53,910
how does it enhance transparency
in, in the tuna supply chain?

1299
01:03:54,629 --> 01:03:59,759
So the PVR stands for Proactive Vessel
Register, and these are vessels that

1300
01:03:59,759 --> 01:04:04,859
have signed up to be audited by third,
third party auditors for their compliance

1301
01:04:04,859 --> 01:04:06,419
with our conservation measures.

1302
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,439
ISSF has now 34 conservation
measures, and if you are a

1303
01:04:10,439 --> 01:04:15,509
participating company in ISSF, you
have to comply with them some, um.

1304
01:04:16,214 --> 01:04:17,745
Are things that companies only do.

1305
01:04:17,805 --> 01:04:21,524
Like for example, they submit once
a quarter to the science bodies in

1306
01:04:21,524 --> 01:04:26,865
the each RFMO vessel level, species
size, all their tuna purchasers

1307
01:04:27,615 --> 01:04:29,924
that the RFMO scientists use.

1308
01:04:29,955 --> 01:04:31,544
That's not something
that goes to the boat.

1309
01:04:31,575 --> 01:04:34,274
That's a, that's an example
of a company specific one.

1310
01:04:34,785 --> 01:04:38,710
Um, they're all audited on their
traceability systems annually by

1311
01:04:38,910 --> 01:04:43,575
MRA to make sure that they have
robust vessel trip to finished Good.

1312
01:04:43,965 --> 01:04:44,865
Traceability.

1313
01:04:45,345 --> 01:04:48,915
Um, but then there are a number of
them that do apply to the boats.

1314
01:04:48,915 --> 01:04:53,085
The boat has to be flagged to a
country that's actually participating

1315
01:04:53,175 --> 01:04:54,765
in the RFMO where they're fishing.

1316
01:04:55,095 --> 01:04:58,875
The boat has to have a unique
vessel identifier, an IMO number,

1317
01:04:58,935 --> 01:05:00,525
if they're eligible to get one.

1318
01:05:00,525 --> 01:05:05,055
Otherwise A two V that the FAOI
think gives out other, uh, so

1319
01:05:05,055 --> 01:05:06,465
they have to have an IMO number.

1320
01:05:06,795 --> 01:05:12,105
They, their skipper has to have undergone
a skipper's training workshop with us.

1321
01:05:12,105 --> 01:05:16,395
They have to be deploying
non entangling fads.

1322
01:05:17,025 --> 01:05:20,565
The PVR audits the
vessels on those things.

1323
01:05:20,865 --> 01:05:24,735
So the participating company, if
they're buying from boats that are in

1324
01:05:24,735 --> 01:05:30,285
compliance on the PVR, then for at least
the vessel part of our conservation

1325
01:05:30,285 --> 01:05:32,055
measures, they'll be in compliance.

1326
01:05:32,295 --> 01:05:33,165
Mm-hmm.

1327
01:05:33,166 --> 01:05:37,275
Um, so, so that is where
we are with the PVR.

1328
01:05:37,725 --> 01:05:40,935
It, it and of itself.

1329
01:05:42,370 --> 01:05:47,265
It doesn't help with transparency except
that it is credible transparency to

1330
01:05:47,265 --> 01:05:49,665
the practices that the vessels Right.

1331
01:05:49,665 --> 01:05:50,265
Are doing.

1332
01:05:50,505 --> 01:05:50,685
Of course.

1333
01:05:50,685 --> 01:05:52,935
'cause it's independently
third party audited.

1334
01:05:53,085 --> 01:05:53,325
Yeah.

1335
01:05:53,895 --> 01:05:57,165
And you also know that the
companies have been audited on their

1336
01:05:57,165 --> 01:06:02,055
traceability systems and we publish
the individual company audit reports.

1337
01:06:02,175 --> 01:06:02,415
Right.

1338
01:06:02,415 --> 01:06:02,865
Also.

1339
01:06:03,615 --> 01:06:07,095
So that's where the transparency
comes from, like comes from Exactly.

1340
01:06:07,305 --> 01:06:09,705
You're seeing the results
of this, of these audits.

1341
01:06:09,705 --> 01:06:09,795
Yep.

1342
01:06:10,065 --> 01:06:13,395
Pass or fail or, you know,
needs improvement where you're,

1343
01:06:13,515 --> 01:06:14,565
everybody gets to see it.

1344
01:06:15,255 --> 01:06:15,855
Correct.

1345
01:06:16,545 --> 01:06:16,875
Interesting.

1346
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:19,545
And we also, I mean, in addition
to our conservation measures being

1347
01:06:19,545 --> 01:06:22,155
public, the audit protocols are public.

1348
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:22,590
Right.

1349
01:06:22,610 --> 01:06:26,655
So if you wanna know exactly when
MAG audits this vote for this thing.

1350
01:06:27,135 --> 01:06:27,195
Yeah.

1351
01:06:27,195 --> 01:06:29,205
What, what proof needs
to be given it's public.

1352
01:06:29,415 --> 01:06:30,075
You can look at it.

1353
01:06:30,345 --> 01:06:30,495
Yeah.

1354
01:06:30,495 --> 01:06:35,205
To, to just go a little bit beyond that,
you know, having an audit is great and

1355
01:06:35,205 --> 01:06:37,305
being able to, to publish that is great.

1356
01:06:37,665 --> 01:06:37,965
Um.

1357
01:06:40,260 --> 01:06:42,480
The accountability part of it.

1358
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:42,570
Mm-hmm.

1359
01:06:43,875 --> 01:06:47,430
What is like the pass fail
rate of these, of these audits?

1360
01:06:47,430 --> 01:06:48,210
Do you know offhand?

1361
01:06:48,210 --> 01:06:49,290
I know I'm, I'm asking a question.

1362
01:06:49,290 --> 01:06:49,380
I do.

1363
01:06:49,950 --> 01:06:50,520
Okay, perfect.

1364
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:52,590
Because that, that's just the first
thing that comes to mind because you

1365
01:06:52,590 --> 01:06:55,050
can do the audits, but if everybody's
failing the audits, then they're

1366
01:06:55,050 --> 01:06:58,980
not really, you know, they show
where the, the, the industry is at.

1367
01:06:58,980 --> 01:07:01,770
But if they're not passing them,
then we're not getting any progress.

1368
01:07:01,770 --> 01:07:05,790
Or maybe we, we get progress in
the future, but what is that rate?

1369
01:07:05,850 --> 01:07:06,750
Is it, is it high?

1370
01:07:06,750 --> 01:07:07,110
Is it low?

1371
01:07:07,110 --> 01:07:07,950
Is it improving?

1372
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:09,120
Well, I'd love to hear that.

1373
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:10,680
It's definitely improving.

1374
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:15,660
If you look at the participating
company audits, last year it was 99.3%.

1375
01:07:15,930 --> 01:07:20,460
Uh, it was 23 companies
were audited on 33 measures.

1376
01:07:20,850 --> 01:07:21,000
Okay.

1377
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,810
This year we'll have 24
companies audited on 34 measures.

1378
01:07:25,170 --> 01:07:31,230
When we first started, uh, publishing
these reports in like 20 15, 20 16.

1379
01:07:32,070 --> 01:07:33,900
There was a much bigger spread.

1380
01:07:33,990 --> 01:07:34,080
Right.

1381
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,950
You know, we had a few companies that
were compliant on all, but we had others

1382
01:07:37,950 --> 01:07:41,400
that had a lot of non-conformances.

1383
01:07:41,490 --> 01:07:47,790
Um, and so it speaks to the seriousness
that the companies take their compliance.

1384
01:07:47,790 --> 01:07:47,791
Mm-hmm.

1385
01:07:48,060 --> 01:07:51,510
It speaks to the seriousness that
the retailers, their customers

1386
01:07:52,020 --> 01:07:55,020
take about expecting compliance.

1387
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:55,350
Yeah.

1388
01:07:55,500 --> 01:07:59,370
Um, that, that you see that
compliance improve where it is

1389
01:07:59,370 --> 01:08:03,120
solidly in the upper 90% now.

1390
01:08:03,185 --> 01:08:04,645
So that's for like overall.

1391
01:08:05,025 --> 01:08:05,445
Mm-hmm.

1392
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:10,260
So going from like a wide range and then
tightening it up, but also increasing

1393
01:08:10,260 --> 01:08:12,630
it to like in the ni upper 90%.

1394
01:08:13,230 --> 01:08:13,860
Yes.

1395
01:08:13,890 --> 01:08:14,160
Yep.

1396
01:08:14,970 --> 01:08:15,090
What?

1397
01:08:15,090 --> 01:08:15,780
That's awesome.

1398
01:08:16,410 --> 01:08:17,100
I know.

1399
01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:19,950
And if you, and then, but then
some people say, oh, well then

1400
01:08:19,950 --> 01:08:21,359
they must not be very hard.

1401
01:08:21,569 --> 01:08:22,170
Wow.

1402
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,560
If you look at all the boats on
the PVR, well, first of all, I'm

1403
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:26,880
like, yeah, and you're doing what?

1404
01:08:27,180 --> 01:08:27,569
Yeah.

1405
01:08:28,109 --> 01:08:30,000
And, and any improvement at this point.

1406
01:08:30,005 --> 01:08:30,435
Like Yeah.

1407
01:08:30,715 --> 01:08:34,170
You know, and not only are you in,
and I, and I, and I know you're gonna

1408
01:08:34,170 --> 01:08:38,100
say something probably more profound
than I am, but any, like, if we look

1409
01:08:38,100 --> 01:08:41,670
at where people started from, you
know, where they're just kind of

1410
01:08:41,670 --> 01:08:45,000
like, if you think about it, even
globally, they're probably just doing

1411
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,401
things as they learned and mm-hmm.

1412
01:08:47,460 --> 01:08:50,010
And if you have like without.

1413
01:08:50,700 --> 01:08:56,280
Bringing together the RFMOs just as ICF
has done and, and all the RFMOs have

1414
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:59,760
done, and, and everybody who's part
of it has done, everybody was probably

1415
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:01,290
just doing what they knew was right.

1416
01:09:01,290 --> 01:09:03,690
Some things were more
progressive than others.

1417
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:08,760
Uh, and so like when you start these
audits, of course you expect that there's

1418
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:13,530
gonna be a larger fail rate than what
you would get after a number of years.

1419
01:09:13,830 --> 01:09:19,410
But just the, the fact that you're
improving to the upper 90% and, and

1420
01:09:19,410 --> 01:09:21,180
obviously these things are not easy.

1421
01:09:21,180 --> 01:09:22,980
Everybody's gonna say,
these are easy things.

1422
01:09:22,980 --> 01:09:24,300
These are not, these are expensive.

1423
01:09:24,780 --> 01:09:26,700
They're, they're difficult
to, to implement.

1424
01:09:26,850 --> 01:09:28,560
Some of them more challenging than others.

1425
01:09:28,770 --> 01:09:31,800
Uh, especially with bringing on
technology and, and so forth.

1426
01:09:32,070 --> 01:09:33,480
And then changing the mindset.

1427
01:09:33,480 --> 01:09:35,490
Let's be honest, we humans do not change.

1428
01:09:35,490 --> 01:09:38,670
Well, we, we are not easy
to change just in general.

1429
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:39,990
Um, and.

1430
01:09:41,070 --> 01:09:45,120
And, and to be able to get that is a
huge feat, you know, and especially

1431
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:50,340
looking at what th you said 33 now,
34 different types of measurements.

1432
01:09:50,940 --> 01:09:51,390
I'm sorry.

1433
01:09:51,390 --> 01:09:53,490
Anybody who says that
these are Yeah, yeah.

1434
01:09:53,490 --> 01:09:54,390
Any, no, sorry.

1435
01:09:54,930 --> 01:09:55,380
You're right.

1436
01:09:55,470 --> 01:09:55,920
Measures.

1437
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:56,400
Measures, yeah.

1438
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,790
So anybody who says that, you know,
these are easy measures best, I,

1439
01:09:59,790 --> 01:10:03,870
I highly disagree because they,
they don't know fisheries if that's

1440
01:10:03,870 --> 01:10:04,950
the case, you know what I mean?

1441
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:05,640
Like, oh, yep.

1442
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:08,400
These are hard to do in the first place.

1443
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,950
Uh, and the fact that we're
seeing this improvement is great.

1444
01:10:10,950 --> 01:10:12,990
I'm sorry, I, I kind of interrupted
what you were, you were gonna go

1445
01:10:12,990 --> 01:10:14,045
on and say, so please continue.

1446
01:10:14,045 --> 01:10:16,890
Well, I was, so last
year for the first time.

1447
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:22,710
We published the same type of aggregated
statistic for the boats on the PVR

1448
01:10:22,770 --> 01:10:27,570
like we've always had by vessel,
by measure transparency to the PVR.

1449
01:10:27,630 --> 01:10:33,180
But last year we thought we should try
to look at this as a percentage as well.

1450
01:10:33,180 --> 01:10:33,240
Hmm.

1451
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:42,210
And so of the 1700 plus vessels on the
PVR, um, they were, if you took every

1452
01:10:42,210 --> 01:10:47,850
measure, every vessel, every measure, they
were at 76% compliance, which is still,

1453
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:53,370
I mean, obviously there's work to do,
but also obviously they're doing a lot.

1454
01:10:53,370 --> 01:10:57,720
First of all, these are the vessels that
are going over and above by getting on

1455
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:00,570
the PVR and signing up for the audits.

1456
01:11:00,930 --> 01:11:10,860
But secondly, they are still 76%
compliant overall, which also says

1457
01:11:10,860 --> 01:11:12,900
more about the participating companies.

1458
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:14,610
'cause it's not that.

1459
01:11:15,030 --> 01:11:16,470
All boats are doing this.

1460
01:11:16,470 --> 01:11:21,000
This, it also shows the amount of
work that they're doing with their

1461
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:26,580
supplier vessels to help educate
them, to help them do better to, to

1462
01:11:26,580 --> 01:11:29,580
not buy fish from that other 24%.

1463
01:11:29,580 --> 01:11:33,570
They're making those hard commercial
decisions and also investing

1464
01:11:33,570 --> 01:11:36,480
effort to get the bolts up.

1465
01:11:37,110 --> 01:11:37,320
Yeah.

1466
01:11:37,410 --> 01:11:43,620
Um, so I think the, the two statistics
speak to both a job well done, but

1467
01:11:43,620 --> 01:11:46,080
also hard work is still ongoing.

1468
01:11:46,410 --> 01:11:47,010
A hundred percent.

1469
01:11:47,370 --> 01:11:47,910
A hundred percent.

1470
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:48,690
I love this.

1471
01:11:48,690 --> 01:11:51,720
This is such a cool,
uh, thing to talk about.

1472
01:11:52,050 --> 01:11:56,280
Um, now let's talk about financial
commitment, because these things

1473
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:57,780
don't, aren't free, right?

1474
01:11:57,780 --> 01:12:01,110
All these things, it, it costs
money, it costs time, uh, and all

1475
01:12:01,110 --> 01:12:04,830
of that, uh, is, is very expensive
when, when we talk about that.

1476
01:12:05,010 --> 01:12:09,330
So nearly half of the budget for ISSF,
uh, according to the report, was dedicated

1477
01:12:09,330 --> 01:12:10,830
to science, as you mentioned earlier.

1478
01:12:10,890 --> 01:12:10,980
Mm-hmm.

1479
01:12:11,220 --> 01:12:11,790
In 2024.

1480
01:12:12,330 --> 01:12:14,310
So how does this financial commitment.

1481
01:12:14,925 --> 01:12:17,684
Reflect is S F's strategic priorities.

1482
01:12:18,255 --> 01:12:18,585
Yep.

1483
01:12:18,974 --> 01:12:20,535
So, uh,

1484
01:12:22,755 --> 01:12:27,465
first of all, the board, the ISSF
board is different from the companies.

1485
01:12:27,465 --> 01:12:29,175
By the way, it is a community board.

1486
01:12:29,175 --> 01:12:32,115
There's only one company person on
there, and that's Oh, interesting chair.

1487
01:12:32,355 --> 01:12:32,415
Okay.

1488
01:12:32,415 --> 01:12:33,795
But there are scientists on there.

1489
01:12:33,795 --> 01:12:35,684
There are NGO representatives on there.

1490
01:12:35,684 --> 01:12:38,474
There are former fisheries
management managers on there.

1491
01:12:38,474 --> 01:12:40,335
It is truly a community board.

1492
01:12:40,815 --> 01:12:44,745
Um, and, and definitely
science is up there.

1493
01:12:45,135 --> 01:12:49,394
Um, also the verification piece,
you know, these third party

1494
01:12:49,605 --> 01:12:52,425
audits, uh, come with a cost.

1495
01:12:52,905 --> 01:12:53,445
Um,

1496
01:12:55,545 --> 01:12:56,925
the advocacy.

1497
01:12:57,764 --> 01:13:01,035
Is basically the people that you're paying
that you know, you're already paying

1498
01:13:01,035 --> 01:13:02,804
the staff and, and we're advocating.

1499
01:13:02,804 --> 01:13:08,384
So that is important work, but it doesn't
really have as large of a cost center.

1500
01:13:08,384 --> 01:13:11,715
We have a few consultants and you have a
lot of plane tickets to go to meetings,

1501
01:13:11,715 --> 01:13:17,235
but just by the, by virtue of the
nature of the work scientists, science

1502
01:13:17,235 --> 01:13:23,205
is gonna be first and transparency and
compliance is, is gonna be right up there.

1503
01:13:23,325 --> 01:13:23,505
Yeah.

1504
01:13:23,594 --> 01:13:29,355
Um, but, but I should point out, because
this is not a, a minor matter at all.

1505
01:13:29,445 --> 01:13:32,625
Um, our budget is roughly
$5 million a year.

1506
01:13:32,630 --> 01:13:32,750
Mm-hmm.

1507
01:13:33,210 --> 01:13:38,715
The dues that the companies pay based
upon their size is last year, 4.2 million.

1508
01:13:38,715 --> 01:13:43,065
So a little over a
million in grants as well.

1509
01:13:43,245 --> 01:13:43,485
Right.

1510
01:13:43,575 --> 01:13:48,705
Um, but if you look at those companies
and the investment they have made in ISSF

1511
01:13:48,705 --> 01:13:52,275
since we began, it's over $58 million.

1512
01:13:52,695 --> 01:13:56,865
These are companies that really,
and that's just money to us.

1513
01:13:56,865 --> 01:14:00,795
That is not the in kind contributions,
that's not the extra staff people that

1514
01:14:00,795 --> 01:14:05,295
they had to hire to make sure that
their purchases were in compliance

1515
01:14:05,295 --> 01:14:06,825
with the conservation measures.

1516
01:14:07,185 --> 01:14:11,835
Um, and then if you look at the
vessel side and the, we talked earlier

1517
01:14:11,835 --> 01:14:15,195
about the fact that those in kind
contributions range between 30 and

1518
01:14:15,195 --> 01:14:16,785
a hundred million dollars a year.

1519
01:14:17,235 --> 01:14:22,125
These companies take this very
seriously is important to them that

1520
01:14:22,125 --> 01:14:26,955
we are successful and that tunas
and tuna ecosystems are healthy.

1521
01:14:28,425 --> 01:14:31,815
You know, it's, it's interesting when you,
you know, again, coming from a science

1522
01:14:31,815 --> 01:14:36,555
perspective and, and a conservation
perspective where funding is always short.

1523
01:14:37,125 --> 01:14:37,394
Right.

1524
01:14:37,394 --> 01:14:40,365
Where it's difficult to get
funding, especially in these times,

1525
01:14:40,394 --> 01:14:42,344
funding's being cut every which way.

1526
01:14:42,465 --> 01:14:46,394
Government now, uh, in a, in a
number of different countries, you

1527
01:14:46,394 --> 01:14:49,844
know, we're looking at potentially
a poten, uh, impending recession

1528
01:14:49,844 --> 01:14:51,045
and, and, and things like that.

1529
01:14:51,644 --> 01:14:55,094
We are in difficult times we're,
and we need more information.

1530
01:14:55,094 --> 01:14:55,096
Mm-hmm.

1531
01:14:55,785 --> 01:14:58,184
And we need more money
to get that information.

1532
01:14:59,054 --> 01:15:02,745
And we talk about how the
private sector needs to pony

1533
01:15:02,745 --> 01:15:04,575
up and be able to, to do that.

1534
01:15:05,535 --> 01:15:14,025
This is a phenomenal case to show how
much can get done even within a year.

1535
01:15:14,370 --> 01:15:19,980
Then of course over the last, you
know, 15 when you have private sector

1536
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:27,900
investment in trying to improve, uh,
a, a, an industry that has long been

1537
01:15:27,900 --> 01:15:32,340
functioning, um, and has had problems
and has had a, a bad rap and a lot of,

1538
01:15:32,340 --> 01:15:36,720
you know, documentaries and, and, and,
and reports and stuff to improve and to

1539
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:41,370
include everybody and to collaborate with
everybody and to get things done faster.

1540
01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:41,519
Mm-hmm.

1541
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:46,530
Obviously, and I say faster over a 15
year period to improve things, but every

1542
01:15:46,530 --> 01:15:50,250
year you seem to be improving a certain
sector or a number of different sectors.

1543
01:15:50,580 --> 01:15:55,470
And this goes to show, this is a great
example of the fact that the private

1544
01:15:55,470 --> 01:15:58,470
sector money, when they're willing to put
it in and, and let's be honest, they're

1545
01:15:58,470 --> 01:16:02,880
putting in a, a, a decent amount each,
but it's not like billions of dollars.

1546
01:16:03,060 --> 01:16:06,780
This is a good amount each, and
they're putting in a, a like 58 million

1547
01:16:06,780 --> 01:16:08,280
over that, which is a lot of money.

1548
01:16:08,460 --> 01:16:13,740
It is, and to improve not only the
conservation and the sustainability,

1549
01:16:13,740 --> 01:16:15,570
but also to improve the business.

1550
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:17,220
And I think that's it.

1551
01:16:17,220 --> 01:16:21,240
It's, it's just a great example
of how private sector can do some

1552
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:26,580
great things for science, for
conservation, fund it, get it done.

1553
01:16:27,045 --> 01:16:29,115
Move on to the next problem
and solve the next issue.

1554
01:16:29,535 --> 01:16:30,285
It's huge.

1555
01:16:30,315 --> 01:16:34,335
This is, this is phenomenal case
and a, and a great example of that.

1556
01:16:34,605 --> 01:16:37,665
Uh, and it goes to test that everybody
in your organization who's worked

1557
01:16:37,665 --> 01:16:40,725
over the past 15 years, including
yourself, who's helped develop this

1558
01:16:40,725 --> 01:16:44,895
and push this, this type of, of
work just to get things done faster.

1559
01:16:44,895 --> 01:16:46,185
Like, it doesn't happen often.

1560
01:16:46,185 --> 01:16:47,180
Government takes forever.

1561
01:16:47,775 --> 01:16:50,565
You know, nonprofit organizations
never get enough money.

1562
01:16:50,565 --> 01:16:53,625
The people change over quickly
because of the money situation.

1563
01:16:53,865 --> 01:16:58,665
And, and it's a huge, it's a huge,
uh, gap in, in a and to be able to

1564
01:16:58,665 --> 01:17:00,795
have this, uh, is, is phenomenal.

1565
01:17:00,885 --> 01:17:04,185
And this is why you're on the
episode and I get to, we get

1566
01:17:04,185 --> 01:17:05,535
to be able to talk about this.

1567
01:17:05,535 --> 01:17:08,505
It's, it's the, the amount of stuff that
you were able to do, not only in this

1568
01:17:08,505 --> 01:17:12,765
year, but over the last 15 years or this
past year, uh, is absolutely amazing.

1569
01:17:12,955 --> 01:17:13,705
Now, of course.

1570
01:17:13,795 --> 01:17:13,974
Thank you.

1571
01:17:13,974 --> 01:17:17,724
When I, when I say that, I'm gonna be
like, what have you done for me lately

1572
01:17:17,724 --> 01:17:21,355
in terms of what's coming up in 2025?

1573
01:17:21,565 --> 01:17:22,795
I say it jokingly, of course.

1574
01:17:22,825 --> 01:17:22,915
Yep.

1575
01:17:23,004 --> 01:17:26,485
Um, but like, what's the
anticipated scientific investment

1576
01:17:26,514 --> 01:17:28,674
for, for the upcoming year?

1577
01:17:29,155 --> 01:17:29,394
Yep.

1578
01:17:29,785 --> 01:17:33,235
So we have high hopes for continued
progress on electronic monitoring.

1579
01:17:33,355 --> 01:17:33,445
Right.

1580
01:17:33,474 --> 01:17:35,545
We've gotta get more
fleets using those fully.

1581
01:17:36,435 --> 01:17:39,135
Biodegradable fads, you know,
those deadlines by which

1582
01:17:39,135 --> 01:17:40,485
they have to be using them.

1583
01:17:40,695 --> 01:17:43,095
We'll be here before we know it
'cause that's how time works.

1584
01:17:43,425 --> 01:17:43,485
Yeah.

1585
01:17:43,515 --> 01:17:47,325
Um, as well as ongoing
research to make them better.

1586
01:17:47,385 --> 01:17:47,745
Right?

1587
01:17:47,745 --> 01:17:51,345
Looking for types of wood that
maybe could be locally sourced

1588
01:17:51,345 --> 01:17:56,115
in a good source of flotation or,
uh, can the design be improved.

1589
01:17:56,535 --> 01:18:02,175
Um, and then I, I talked a little bit
about the new columns that we're gonna

1590
01:18:02,175 --> 01:18:07,515
open up on the v oce, uh, and the tune
of transparency pledge and retailers

1591
01:18:07,815 --> 01:18:12,195
now making specific commitments and
looking to the v oce for that proof.

1592
01:18:12,675 --> 01:18:20,955
And I really anticipate that 2025 and
2026 will be the year that you will, we'll

1593
01:18:20,955 --> 01:18:26,085
start to see a lot more market call for.

1594
01:18:27,134 --> 01:18:30,375
Proven implementation
of specific initiatives.

1595
01:18:30,375 --> 01:18:35,714
You know, there are 59 retailers around
the world now that somehow in their

1596
01:18:35,985 --> 01:18:40,815
commitments may make some reference to
ISSF by only from an ISF participating

1597
01:18:40,815 --> 01:18:43,155
company or only from boats on the PVR.

1598
01:18:43,155 --> 01:18:46,304
But it's very high level and
it's not really verified.

1599
01:18:46,724 --> 01:18:51,224
And now the NGO community is
starting to say, Hey, like TNC did

1600
01:18:51,224 --> 01:18:54,195
with the transparency pledge, we
want a hundred percent verification

1601
01:18:54,525 --> 01:18:56,625
and we want that vote on the VOC.

1602
01:18:56,625 --> 01:19:01,605
So we know that it has been independently
audited and verified that they do in

1603
01:19:01,605 --> 01:19:07,365
fact have a hundred percent observation
and, and I think that type of initiative

1604
01:19:07,365 --> 01:19:09,375
is gonna be the wave of the future.

1605
01:19:10,065 --> 01:19:10,635
I agree.

1606
01:19:10,785 --> 01:19:11,385
I agree.

1607
01:19:11,445 --> 01:19:15,585
Uh, Susan, I wanna thank you so much for
not only coming on the podcast and sharing

1608
01:19:15,585 --> 01:19:17,355
this, but being so enthusiastic about it.

1609
01:19:17,355 --> 01:19:19,545
You make an annual report exciting.

1610
01:19:19,845 --> 01:19:20,560
And that's, thank you.

1611
01:19:20,580 --> 01:19:23,115
That's not an easy thing to
do because it's a lot of facts

1612
01:19:23,115 --> 01:19:25,725
and a lot of information, but
we have good pictures too.

1613
01:19:25,995 --> 01:19:26,385
Yeah.

1614
01:19:26,385 --> 01:19:26,865
Great picture.

1615
01:19:26,865 --> 01:19:28,815
We're, we're gonna share, we're
gonna share it in the show

1616
01:19:28,815 --> 01:19:30,075
notes so people can take a look.

1617
01:19:30,255 --> 01:19:34,575
Uh, I highly recommend people
go to iss uh, foundation.org.

1618
01:19:34,755 --> 01:19:36,225
I'll put the link in the show notes.

1619
01:19:36,435 --> 01:19:39,885
Uh, Susan, please, I would love to
invite you back, uh, to, to talk next

1620
01:19:39,885 --> 01:19:41,955
year, but also any other initiatives.

1621
01:19:41,955 --> 01:19:45,945
I feel like, uh, ISSF needs its
own podcast just to be able to

1622
01:19:45,975 --> 01:19:48,375
talk about everything and go
into detail about everything.

1623
01:19:48,375 --> 01:19:51,765
But you're more than welcome back to Come
Back, love to come back, you know, to, to

1624
01:19:51,765 --> 01:19:56,655
this, uh, to this podcast and talk more
about tuna conservation and sustainability

1625
01:19:56,865 --> 01:19:58,515
and working together and collaboratively.

1626
01:19:58,515 --> 01:19:59,355
Thank you so much.

1627
01:19:59,360 --> 01:19:59,985
I, I really do.

1628
01:19:59,985 --> 01:20:00,675
That'd be Appreciate it.

1629
01:20:01,065 --> 01:20:01,785
Thanks for having me.

1630
01:20:01,785 --> 01:20:04,035
Thank you, Susan, for joining
us on today's episode of the How

1631
01:20:04,035 --> 01:20:05,055
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1632
01:20:05,055 --> 01:20:07,065
I'd just love the energy.

1633
01:20:07,425 --> 01:20:12,285
I love the fact that we are able
to talk about a 2024 annual report,

1634
01:20:12,495 --> 01:20:15,195
make it exciting, make it productive.

1635
01:20:15,285 --> 01:20:17,655
Think about how productive
this organization is.

1636
01:20:17,655 --> 01:20:22,125
A small organization that has a global
reach, that has collaborators around

1637
01:20:22,125 --> 01:20:27,525
the world, working tirelessly to make
things better for the tuna industry.

1638
01:20:27,525 --> 01:20:29,925
Not only to be able to fish
more, but also to be able to fish

1639
01:20:29,925 --> 01:20:31,455
sustainably and fish forever.

1640
01:20:31,695 --> 01:20:33,615
I think this is something
that is really important.

1641
01:20:33,615 --> 01:20:36,795
I know there's people here who are like,
no, we need to stop fishing altogether.

1642
01:20:36,795 --> 01:20:38,415
That is not going to happen.

1643
01:20:38,415 --> 01:20:39,345
That cannot happen.

1644
01:20:39,615 --> 01:20:41,775
Too many people rely on the protein from.

1645
01:20:42,140 --> 01:20:46,430
Fish like tuna from fish, like a lot
of different fish around the world.

1646
01:20:46,610 --> 01:20:49,460
And we need to make sure that we are
doing this sustainably and there's

1647
01:20:49,460 --> 01:20:51,980
organizations that are working this,
companies that are working on this

1648
01:20:52,130 --> 01:20:53,870
to make sure that it's sustainable.

1649
01:20:53,870 --> 01:20:57,890
And Susan brings the heat in terms of
all the work that they were able to do.

1650
01:20:57,950 --> 01:20:59,540
And you heard it in the episode.

1651
01:20:59,540 --> 01:21:02,660
We're looking at scientific innovations
and research, electronic monitoring

1652
01:21:02,660 --> 01:21:07,130
compliance, stakeholder engagement and
workshops, advocacy and policy influence,

1653
01:21:07,250 --> 01:21:11,120
transparency and accountability in the
tuna supply chain, which is huge financial

1654
01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:12,620
commitment to science, which is huge.

1655
01:21:12,830 --> 01:21:17,180
And looking ahead into 2025 and
re-upping that scientific commitment.

1656
01:21:17,420 --> 01:21:20,810
When you have organizations
and companies who are like, we

1657
01:21:20,810 --> 01:21:22,190
want to invest in the science.

1658
01:21:22,190 --> 01:21:25,040
We wanna listen to the science, but
we need to get the science information

1659
01:21:25,220 --> 01:21:27,680
so that we can listen to the science
and we need to solve problems.

1660
01:21:27,740 --> 01:21:29,600
And with that scientific study.

1661
01:21:29,730 --> 01:21:31,919
Causes another problem or
highlights another problem.

1662
01:21:32,009 --> 01:21:33,059
We need to solve that problem.

1663
01:21:33,059 --> 01:21:35,879
So let's do more science and let's
figure out the answers to all

1664
01:21:35,879 --> 01:21:39,030
these questions that we have and
problems and challenges that we face.

1665
01:21:39,059 --> 01:21:41,339
And this is what ISSF
is doing and I love it.

1666
01:21:41,429 --> 01:21:42,030
I just love it.

1667
01:21:42,030 --> 01:21:42,690
Absolutely love it.

1668
01:21:42,690 --> 01:21:45,120
Just to let you know like I am
propping this organization up.

1669
01:21:45,150 --> 01:21:46,530
They don't pay me to come on here.

1670
01:21:46,860 --> 01:21:47,879
They ask to come on.

1671
01:21:48,135 --> 01:21:51,405
I said yes, let's talk about it
because I love what they're doing.

1672
01:21:51,495 --> 01:21:55,275
This is conservation, this is fisheries
management, this is collaboration,

1673
01:21:55,395 --> 01:21:56,715
and this is what we need more of.

1674
01:21:56,715 --> 01:22:00,195
So I'd love to hear your comments
and feedback on this episode.

1675
01:22:00,345 --> 01:22:02,865
If you do have some, put 'em
in the comments down below.

1676
01:22:02,865 --> 01:22:05,445
If you're watching this on YouTube,
if you're listening to this on the

1677
01:22:05,445 --> 01:22:08,175
audio podcast and you feel like,
Andrew, I need to talk to you

1678
01:22:08,175 --> 01:22:09,495
about this, you know, hit me up.

1679
01:22:09,495 --> 01:22:10,365
There's two ways to do so.

1680
01:22:10,365 --> 01:22:13,965
You can go to speak up for
blue.com/contact, fill out the form that

1681
01:22:13,965 --> 01:22:18,405
goes right to my email, or you can DM me
on Instagram at how to protect the Ocean.

1682
01:22:18,405 --> 01:22:20,205
It's at how to protect the ocean.

1683
01:22:20,415 --> 01:22:23,865
And of course, if you want to take
more action and you want to be getting

1684
01:22:23,865 --> 01:22:27,375
guided into taking more action for the
ocean, you can join the undertow at

1685
01:22:27,375 --> 01:22:30,645
Speak Up for blue.com/join the undertow.

1686
01:22:30,915 --> 01:22:31,635
Join our community.

1687
01:22:31,635 --> 01:22:32,505
There's a bit of a wait list.

1688
01:22:32,505 --> 01:22:36,975
We're about to launch momentarily, but
join the under Speak up for blue.com.

1689
01:22:36,975 --> 01:22:37,965
Join the undertow.

1690
01:22:37,965 --> 01:22:40,395
Thank you so much for joining
me on today's episode of the How

1691
01:22:40,395 --> 01:22:41,535
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1692
01:22:41,715 --> 01:22:44,625
I'm your host Angela, and from the true
nor strong and free, have a great day.

1693
01:22:44,625 --> 01:22:46,815
We'll talk to you next time
and happy conservation.