Ocean Conservation Meets Innovation: Inside The Undertow’s Global Mission

1:00:00 Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode. I'm Andrew Lewin, as you know, and today's episode is not just special, it's a milestone. I'm joined by two incredible change makers of the ocean, Amanda Horn and Serena Wynn. And together we're announcing something we've been working on behind the scene for quite some time. It's called The Undertow. It's a platform and community built to support the people who are driving ocean conservation forward. And the initiative is about more than just awareness, it's about action, it's about connection, and it's about impact. And if you've ever felt like you wanted to do more for the ocean, but didn't really know how to do it, or if you're already taking action and want to be part of something bigger, like a bigger wave, this episode is for you.

1:00:42 So stick around as we share the story behind The Undertow, why it matters and how you can be a part of it on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Let's start the show. Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. This is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. On today's episode, we're going to be talking about The Undertow, something that I've been working on with Serena Amanda for quite some time behind the scenes. It's something that we wanted to present to you today. We are launching something because we feel like there are two major needs in the ocean conservation community. One, there are a lot of people who are doing projects on their own.

1:01:24 They are trying to find their own path. They're trying to kind of just sort of march down their own lane and really take down barriers, break ceilings and so forth. But they're doing it by themselves. And we think that as a community, we can help uplift and support those people as well as get their message out there on a bigger scale. And that's what we want to do. The other thing that we find is that there are communities out there, but there's not a lot of communities out there that are trying to put action together. Having both of those pieces, the people who are trying to do some great things and having a community that needs those things to be done, to be able to guide them to and be able to be like, hey, what's greenwashing? What's blue washing? You know, what can we actually buy this good? How can we connect to the ocean more? What we could do for our corporations, like our businesses, to get to a better level in terms of acting better for climate change and the ocean and so forth.

1:02:11 This is all part of the undertow. And this is what we're going to be talking about today and why we decided that this was the best way forward for ocean conservation and filling a need that if you fit within either of those groups, we can do together and collaborate collaboration is the key in this. It is part of our vision. It is part of our mission. And it's something that I feel is going to go a long way in this ocean conservation community. So we are going to be talking about that today. So I have Amanda and Serena on the podcast. I'm the host, but I'm also going back and forth and talking about the ideas that we've come up with and what we want to establish as the startup. And I can't wait Serena and Amanda were the ones who approached me to be a co-founder on this.

1:02:54 I'm providing the science and providing the podcast and communication. So now you're going to see how to protect the ocean powered by the undertow, which I'm very excited to do. And I can't wait to do that in the future. It's going to be a lot of fun in the near future. And we're going to be launching this very, very soon. So here is the interview with myself, Amanda and Serena in joy. And I'll talk to you after. Hey, Amanda. Hey, Serena. Welcome to the how to protect the ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about the undertow? Yes, we are. Yes. Nice. This is a very special and exciting episode for me as well as for both of you, because we're announcing something that we've been working on for quite some time.

1:03:37 It's called the undertow. We're going to get into what it all means and how it's going to hopefully affect you all that are listening to this and watching this in a very positive way. I'm very honored to have both of you on the podcast today because like we said, we've been working together for quite some time on this. Both of you have been working together even longer than I have with you, with you, with all of us. And so I am excited to talk about what we're going to be talking about today. And it's really a way to impact in a positive way for the ocean, but also bring people together, get them to do actions, bring them together as connections. And I can't wait. So before we get into all of that wonderful stuff, why don't we just get to know a little bit about the both of you?

1:04:20 So Amanda, we'll start with you. Why don't you let us know who you are and what you do? Absolutely. I'm so excited to be back on the podcast. It's just it feels very full circle because at the time when we had our first conversation a couple of years ago, I had just made this pivot into the ocean. I had no idea really where I fit in it as a marketer. I knew that I love building brands. I was really going down that route. But what I realized now is I was looking for a an action pathway, like of how I could take action for the ocean, like my personal passion and excitement for it and bring that into my work. So I'm super excited to have this conversation today.

1:05:00 And it's just such a great story of how we met as Landlauf Burlington people and then the story of how Srita and I came together. So we're just going to talk about this little convergence of us as co-founders. So I guess to start, I'll say that my name is Amanda Horn. I am a co-founder, one of the three co-founders of the Undertow. And I just saw all of my connections to water are really what have brought me here and just really want to inspire others to take action for it. So scuba diver, free diver, love eating seafood. I'm pretty into like water and the water wellness space. That's something that really changed my life, like through cold plunging. And these days, every experience that I've had that has been positive is usually always tied back to water lakes included.

1:05:44 So we can't forget our fresh bodies of water. I grew up around skeleton lake with my family. So lots of amazing memories up there at the cottage. And now that I have a nice, it's just really exciting to see, like, through the generations, how water is just such a thread throughout my personal and professional identities. That's me. Love it. Love it. Serena, how about yourself? Why don't you let us know who you are and what you do? I'm so excited to be on today. It's kind of full circle for me, too, because when I started my water journey, your podcast, How to Protect the Ocean, was one of the first that I started listening to to build my knowledge and deepen my understanding of how all of the things are connected. So I am also a water lover, but my water awakening started a little bit later.

1:06:30 I am now a certified diver. I did first start with free diving, snorkeling. I was your typical beach lover and Amanda to your point, cottage lake lover. And over time, I really started to think about how I could spend the hours that I was doing in all of my other careers to focus on something that was really important to me and make sure that I was protecting and sustaining something that hopefully I could share with my future family. And so my water awakening started through all of those activities and just got strengthened, strengthened with each new experience, each coming back to water being around water, each gap away from it as well.

1:07:18 I don't know about you all, but I know an extended period of time away from water. Eventually, I get that, you know, that urge and need and meditative state to to see and be around water. So I'm very excited to share how all of that has kind of transpired to me being one of the co-founders of the Undertow as well. I love it. I love it. I'm going to I'm going to do something that I haven't done in a long time. And that's sort of reintroduced myself to the audience. Whether you're new to this, this podcast and listening or watching or not, it doesn't matter because this I feel like this is like a new beginning, not only for myself, but also for an end. for all three of us together, but also for the podcast because the podcast is going to play a pretty big role in the Undertow.

1:08:06 And I'm super excited for that. But my water journey began when I was a kid and it was it started off watching TV and watching the Jacques Cousteau's of of my day and and all the different discovery channel and not geo and even the magazines and going to the library and looking up books. And the only books that were available were these picture books like these beautiful photography books like collections. And that was where it really started. I'm like, I need a kid from Scarborough, like Toronto being like I'm surrounded by pavement and I like I have the Toronto Zoo, which is the closest thing to me to animals. But I want the ocean. I need to be by the ocean. And like I think the first time I touched the ocean when I was nine years old in Florida, we went to we went to Florida for a family trip.

1:08:52 And since then, I've been absolutely in love just exploring trying to be in the water as much as as much as possible and then becoming a scientist and a marine biologist to do that. And then eventually over time, evolving into a science communicator to be like, look, we need to talk about the ocean. And if I don't start talking about it and explaining what's happening to the people around me and the people on this platform that I've built is is is going to be a waste of time for me. And I need to start doing that. And so it became like my way to not only stay connected to the ocean and what was happening, but also to educate and make people aware of what was happening in the ocean. And that's sort of where, you know, we came in and and I'm going to just start off a little bit in terms of like how the undertow really came to be because we all have very different backgrounds, like professional background.

1:09:44 You know, always we all grew up in Ontario and we, you know, we all have that that connection, right? And the Canadian connection and so forth. But we very we we we did we can't we converged but from very different backgrounds, which I think is a benefit to what the undertow is becoming and has become. And, you know, coming from a science background, coming from a science communication background, the frustration that I keep seeing about talking about things that happen in the ocean and then not being able to see action from it or being like not having not feeling like I have control over the action. And I think that, you know, that going back and forth of like, look, the major action is coming from policy and government that, let's be honest, a lot of us don't have a huge influence as an individual, you know, but there are certain things that we can do as an individual, which can help, but not as an individual.

1:10:36 You still need to have people in a community to do this as a community and you'll have more impact that way. And that works with government, like influencing government as well as doing individual actions. And that was the frustrating part is not finding that place and kind of feeling like I'm on this island, seeing other people do some really cool things and then not being able to be a part of it, you know, kind of like, quote unquote, stuck in Ontario around these beautiful Great Lakes that we have. But then, you know, nothing, nothing coming out of it. So it was very frustrating. And then I met the both of you, you know, and and that's where sort of we kind of came together and be like, okay, let's like, let's get together and do something.

1:11:17 But the idea wasn't mine originally. It was, let's talk about it. Who do we who do we start with first? Because Amanda, you're the one who introduced me to Serena. So why don't you go ahead first and just sort of talk about how your journey led to to the undertow. Yeah, sure. So, I guess it goes back to when I started it was post pandemic and I was just trying to really listen to like, what should I be doing next I my background is in marketing. I know that that's something I love. I love being creative. I love building brands. So and now when I think of marketing, like it's so much more of like, less about content, but it's all about like the operations and building these systems and where do you create these online spaces that have a really good experience associated with them.

1:12:07 So I got really into that whole like customer design experience design user experience design and really looked at how to weave that to like create those really engaging digital spaces and like media has such a huge role in that, which was the thing that I always really, really loved. So you're trying to build a brand, which means you're giving an identity to an organization or whatever that mission that vision and those were starting to come in really clearly for me. I had no idea what it is that I wanted to build. I just knew that I wanted to start a conversation around ocean conservation. I wanted to do it in a credible way in a cheeky and playful way that was going to kind of counteract all this doom and gloom and things that I was seeing. So that's where I ended up started going down the path of maybe I want to create this waterless personal care brand to help start to move people through the world in a more conscious way.

1:13:03 Like as somebody who loves to travel, but then I was starting to really understand the impact and the footprint that we leave when we don't want to ever stop discovering places and spending time near the ocean. So I was really starting to think about how do we measure this? How do we reduce the impact of our everyday actions on the ocean and the world's bodies of water, no matter where in the world we are. So I started building that and I had no idea where to start and I wanted to be credible about it. And I knew that I needed to start talking to scientists and sustainability experts and all these people. I had no network in this space. My network was strictly wine. Like it was all sommeliers, wine marketers, governments and people from the different liquor boards across Canada and a great network of international wine, wineries and distilleries.

1:13:50 And I definitely still tap into today, but I was like, I'm building this from scratch. I just want to have coffee chats. I just need to have conversations with people to understand what it is that they do and may or may not need to pick their brain on something. So I started having these really conversations and didn't want to blog about it because now you're a founder, you don't have time to do that. And I just found like having these like open kind of like podcast style, like we're just capturing these live. And I listen to a lot of medium podcasts as well myself and I hear these amazing experts and I hear their stories and I just really thought it would be so cool if there was a place where those guests from the podcast if they had opted into it like could be accessible like I want to learn more.

1:14:30 I want to go deeper than what it was that I just heard there. So this idea around okay if I'm building a brand I need to build a community is there a place to house this community. How do we start to inspire other people who might want to follow like a similar path, but really make it their own. And I'm so grateful to everybody that was willing to talk to me in the beginning when I had really no no ask. And I just found there's so much pressure to like when you reach out over LinkedIn for a coffee chat there has to be an action item there has to be a deliverable but you're just information gathering and you're just trying to figure it out. Mentors have always been so important to me. So I was trying to bring in a little bit of that thinking and was like, okay, we need a place to put these people. And then ultimately when Serena and I met, and I'll kind of let her tell the story of how we were able to do whatever happened. But we had very similar ideas and like complimentary parts and things that we wanted to work on. So I just remember one of the things that we really aligned on up front was that there is so much good work being done.

1:15:34 And sort of a in people aren't understanding that our lives every day and the impact that our actions have on the ocean, how do you even start to build that conversation when there's so much on the climate change side or climate action that's still just very ambiguous and confusing and people just really didn't know where to start.

1:16:23 So that was kind of where this problem we started to noodle on of how do we build this knowledge and action hub to be able to lead with those stories and let people to come and connect and then find a way to take action in their life through the way that they live, work and play. So I'll pass it to Serena. Nice. No, I love that. And I love the reminder of your story because it just goes to show that all of these different converging backgrounds that you had led you to water in various ways, right? Which is, I think a bit of the loss narrative for the general population around how the ocean connects to them and why everybody should care really.

1:17:06 So kind of then we'll get into the mission of the undertow I know, but it just goes to show you don't need to have a marine science background or kind of that deep scientific background to begin exploring this path. So my background is a little bit more of that corporate path. I was in management consulting, early, early days I was in mining. So, you know, the other side, if you will. But then I started moving into tech. Through tech, I started getting exposed to a whole bunch of startups, whether it was at Microsoft or startups, being in a FinTech myself. So during that FinTech boom, you know, when everybody was like, FinTech's not a thing. And then all of a sudden, you know, the largest kind of exits.

1:17:51 And I wanted to really start to think about, like, what do I want to focus on? And I had a mentor of my reach out for an opportunity. And I was curious about it because what it allowed me to do is get my foot in the door with climate. I knew eventually somewhere my path would lead to climate. Just didn't know how, because I came from such this like traditional tech and corporate background. But it was really incredible because I was like, OK, like, let me get my foot in the door. The place was Mars Discovery District. There's about twelve hundred startups there. It's one of the largest in North America and in Toronto itself. And what I got to see there was the incredible power of not just enterprise tech, but climate tech as well. And, you know, through that, I was doing actually I was wearing way too many hats, to be fair.

1:18:34 I was I was doing my role at Mars and then I was also standing up social nonprofit. CLAR, the Coalition of Innovation Leaders Against Racism. We've recently pivoted that to advancing respect, where I got to work with executives across some of Canada's top innovation companies, tech and innovation that combined academia, universities and research startups themselves and some government partners. And so what I started to really think about is how how do all of these networks support climate change? And then for me, climate was a big, broad thing. But because I wasn't deep into it yet, I had to start understanding where I wanted to play in climate.

1:19:20 And with all the hats that I was wearing, it's very hard to get enough thinking space to get that clarity. And so I wanted to take a break and create that space for myself while being productive and maybe learning down a path that I thought was interesting, which led me to an internship in the Cayman Islands Central Caribbean Marine Institute. Wow. And I thought, yeah, I was like, you know what, I love water. I love the ocean. I'd love to spend more time in it, but I don't understand enough. I know it plays a really big role living in Canada, largest coastline, access to the Arctic, fresh water, plus, plus, plus.

1:20:01 I was like, there's something here and I just don't know what it is. So I knew I needed to build my knowledge. So I went on this internship, took a break from I had very supportive leaders, thankfully. So I took a break from both of my roles. I was still kind of doing some of that work, to be fair, writing proposals in the middle of the night. But I connected to the ocean and I got to meet incredible researchers and scientists from Woods Hole, from the Smithsonian, from University of Florida, from folks from the University of Elat. And so and that's where I actually got my open water certification. And that was just a nice place to do it. And I feel kind of spoiled.

1:20:43 I'm not going to lie. Everybody warned me that like you are going to get you're going to be. It's going to be a different experience when you go to other places. Yeah, you're being spoiled. Right. I'm being spoiled. But what I got to learn is that people were doing, Amanda, to your point, incredible stuff. There was an intersection of tech and ocean science happening. I just hadn't been exposed to it just yet. And there was more that we could do. So that got my hat up thinking about, OK, well, what are my strengths around understanding the corporate pathways, understanding the commercialization pathways for startups and then understanding that there's this huge climate space that's taking off and huge opportunity for Canada.

1:21:32 And I just needed to know what was happening to learn more because what I'm really good at in my previous roles is building ecosystems, building communities, building coalitions of action. And so I know that this is a big enough problem where any single one individual operating in their silo, that's going to move it. A millimeter of where it actually needs to move. And that's not for the wrong intention. It's just it's such a big problem that we're trying to change or solve for. So how do you break that down and do it efficiently and effectively? And for a lot of folks like myself who, you know, want to see a future with clean oceans, nature that we can share with our future families, our nieces, our nephews.

1:22:23 You know, I started really thinking about how I dedicate all of those hours I was spending on really important things to me into something that really I wanted to wake up and like do every day and be next to you and share with my friends and family and community. And so coming back from that sabbatical or whatever you want to call it, internship, time off, really just solidified that I had a strength to to bring to this ecosystem. I didn't have to be the only expert, but I imagine I'm not the only person trying to navigate how I can actually contribute to this. And as I started meeting people, a lot of folks had came from more corporate backgrounds.

1:23:05 A lot of the folks leading the accelerators and the incubators and some of the startups came from more of a corporate background. And a lot of the folks in my network who are like, you know, what's this thing that you're like this thing that you're doing? I've never heard of the blue economy. I was I was shocked at how many folks in my networks that I've never heard of the blue economy. Meanwhile, for myself, I'm like, but you live in Canada. So there's obviously a disconnect and an opportunity to really start making this conversation, I think, a little bit more accessible and inclusive because everybody is connected to water and the ocean. They do and can play a part in some small or large way.

1:23:45 It's just we got to give them the pathways. And so I started going to conferences and, you know, talking to the accelerators and the incubators and some of the startups and trying to leverage my network as much as possible to to really immerse myself in this. And that's where I met Amanda in Barcelona at the UN Ocean Decade Conference. I was just I started following people on Instagram and LinkedIn and all that stuff. And I messaged an artist, actually, that I really appreciated the work that she was doing. And I was really inspired by the adventures she was taking, how she was using art to communicate that to folks. And I said, hey, are you going to be at the UN Ocean Decade? And she said, no, but funny enough, I have another Canadian friend who will be there.

1:24:30 Let me introduce you both. And so she introduced me to Amanda. We started chatting and coordinating to to meet at the conference. And, you know, this is in between all the conference activity. And I'm I'm a sponge. I'm trying to soak up as much information because I want to see how all these pieces start to fit. But we connected, grabbed a beverage on the beach, you know, inspired by. Yeah, inspired by the ocean. And we just started talking about her journey, which I was like, yeah, I'm having the same problem, like building ocean knowledge. I'm so thankful to the people who are making time for me to to educate me and build my awareness.

1:25:10 But like, it's all in silos, right? And I could start to see see that pattern kind of emerge. And I had no intention of of proposing my idea to Amanda. I was just like, you know, this is just going to be, you know, you're an in person coffee cat, you know, or whatever. And but then I just I just felt like it was the right time to to just say, hey, we're both trying to do the same thing. If I'm going to live by the principle of doing things efficiently and scalably and like leveraging people with strength, she has a strength that I don't have. Yeah. And so why don't we come together and see if there's enough alignment in both of our ideas that we could work together to be more efficient.

1:25:54 But then also really lean on each other's strengths to build faster and to build more thoughtfully and more inclusively and with all of those things in mind. And so I said, hey, Amanda, do you want to be no pressure? But like, do you want to be like co-founders? Yes. And then, yeah, then we just proposed and then we just kind of took it from there. We're like, and we were very I think we were very pragmatic about it. We respected each other's IP. I know Amanda had been working on this. She knows I had been working on this. And so we said, you know, if you're comfortable, like, let's put NDA's in place and make sure, you know, all of those things.

1:26:37 But let's not let those early stage ideas be the thing that stop us from going down the path of really understanding if there's an opportunity for us to do this better together. And, you know, I think that's part of the values alignment that we had was like we wanted to respect that IP. We wanted to respect that effort that we had, you know, sweat equity that we had already both put into things. And and I think that's a lot of the principles that we continue to collaborate on. And, you know, Andrew, I hope you eventually felt when we reached out to you to say, hey, are you here? We have an idea. And this is where we're headed. Are you interested in joining in?

1:27:18 So I'll leave it at that because, Andrew, I think this is where you might want to pick up the baton. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, this was and I've described to other people and including my wife, I'm just like, this was the perfect opportunity for me. It was it was something that was very different from what I was seeing in the marine science field, even the marine conservation field. It was something where, you know, I've been advocating for collaboration. I've been advocating for sharing of information. I've been advocating for supporting one another within within this ocean conservation field. Right. And and this was when when when you guys presented this to me, I was just like this.

1:27:58 This is it. Like right off the bat, I was like, OK. And at first I was like, I'm just like, OK, so I'm going to am I going to be part of this? Is this something that I want to go down? And I just looked at, you know, I went back to what I've been talking about over the last decade doing the show. And I was like, this could work. And I really see the podcast as a big piece of of the undertow. And so I was like, OK, like, you know, I'm very careful of, you know, who I have on the podcast. I'm very careful of who I work with and who I collaborate with. And I was and who I share my show with. And I've just been like, OK, yes. Like this is something where I get I and I still to this day, I continue to be excited about this.

1:28:42 We meet usually about twice a week and we're discussing this stuff. And and I'm like, oh, I really start to get excited. You know, you know, I'm excited to launch. I'm excited to get people in the undertow. I'm excited to meet people. I'm excited to engage with people. And I'm excited to work with the both of you because I feel as though our background, as I mentioned before, complement each other so well, you know. And and we all come with this specific expertise and together the way we met and the way we're willing to move forward as it as like a unit and go for it. Be like, yes, like this is this is great.

1:29:25 And we all put in our own, you know, two cents into every strategy point that we're looking at or any action point that we're looking at. We're like, OK, this is this is the way we're going forward. And I love that aspect. And I am so excited that we get to work together. And I'm excited that we've got to do this podcast today and talk about the undertow. And the one thing that really got me excited is, Amanda, when you gave the pitch and you were like, this is the undertow and this is why we're calling it the undertow. So can you do that right now? Don't want to put you on the spot. I'm kind of putting you on the spot. But you have such a good way of putting it of where the term like where it where like the idea of calling the undertow, the undertow, where it came from and how it fits into what we're doing.

1:30:13 I love this. There's just so much symbolism and how this all came to be. And again, as Serena was talking about, like we truly put on paper for days while we were in Barcelona, like what are your values? What are mine? Like, what was your intention behind this? And what is the real problem that we're trying to solve or the solutions that we want to explore? What is this like identity? And what's this transformation that we want this platform to guide people through? And you had another like your initiative was going to be called the undertow. It was a podcast. Right. And I just remember thinking like that has to be the name of this thing that we do together.

1:30:54 Because if we're really trying to counteract this like fear or apathy that people have towards water in the ocean, I just find I'm a diver, a divemaster now. And when I tell people I'm so excited to go diving, a lot of them say, oh, the ocean's so scary. Like why? And so I'm like that I was being met with that. That's before I started spending all this time with these ocean lovers. But I was so frequently met with that. And it struck me so much as you're not going to take action for something unless you care about it. So we have to figure out how to create positive water experiences because once you feel that like I haven't met anybody who stuck their head underwater, like snorkeling, diving, whatever, who's been like, oh, this is awful unless the reef is dead.

1:31:39 But most people are are like and when you talk to people who have had that moment, had that awakening, whatever it was, no matter what sport it was or just like they went for a romantic walk on the beach. Like water is weaved into so many of these different stories. So we're like, OK, we need to lead with this love element and like counteract that fear. So the idea behind choosing something that people typically fear like the undertow, because it's so unpredictable, you can't trust it. It is just like this ultimate fear of the unknown. And once you're in like you're forced to just like surrender to it. And I started reading a little bit more on like how are under toes formed?

1:32:20 Like what is this word actually mean? And then I learned like their strongest in the shallows. I actually met someone the other night who said that ankle deep, he was swept out and now is like so afraid of water. So you're in the shallows. You're just kind of on waiting. So like I would equate that to somebody who's just like starting to dip their toes in. So now the undertow pulls you in. But the thing that I found that was really interesting and Andrew, you're a scientist. So correct me if my research is wrong. So my understanding is that it weakens the deeper that you get. And that's where it opens up to create new ways. So this idea that you are we're pulling you into the undertow, we're pulling these people that I guess I have to actually pitch what the undertow is so that this all makes sense.

1:33:03 Yes. That's the philosophy. So what the undertow is is a marketplace for ocean knowledge and ocean action. But powered by the stories of this human ocean connection. So we really wanted to create a place where we could highlight people who are moving through this motion of their water is having their awakening. Now they're realizing that that depth and personal connection they've had to water in whatever way, shape or form has now inspired them to take action through their work. And maybe they've initiated an organization, a project or something. But they have now decided the ocean is my life, water is my world, and I'm going to just champion that all day long.

1:33:46 So it was just this interesting combination that combined that like sense of urgency that we need to have with also taking something that is typically seen in a negative light. But wanting to reframe it that once you deepen your knowledge on something, you can't ignore like the power that it has. And from the shoreline, you can't see the undertow. So it's like there is so much power in that unseen. And if we could build up this collective of people who are rallying towards this mission, which ultimately is how do we create 10 million new ocean connections and unlock five million dollars in ocean action by World Ocean Day 2030?

1:34:31 That's a big ask. That's a really big goal. And so for three of us to sit here and be like, we're just going to do this without anybody else like that's crazy. So it really spoke to we need everybody. So whatever your superpower is, whether you're working in climate or not, maybe you've never considered the connection between ocean and climate. You're in a completely different industry. Maybe you're marketing wine and now you're trying to figure out how to bring that skill set over into the space. There's so much room for everybody. We just ask you to lead with water and choose a way to take action for it. Yeah. And and I think the other side of that is, Amanda, you mentioned like folks coming in and changing their life.

1:35:16 Part of the undertow is to also inspire just everyday individual action. Right. To your point, a lot of people at this unseen thing, they're like, oh, you know, I don't see the ocean. I don't live by the ocean like it doesn't matter. It doesn't affect me. That's that's not our belief at the undertow. Right. It really is that it connects everybody. And so you might not know and see it and you might not initially feel like you have a part to play. But if you just flow and let let us pull you in, let the undertow pull you into all of the ways that you might be connected to water, whether that is vacation, whether that's adventure and sport, music, arts, science, research, innovation, technology, there's an element that is connected to everybody.

1:36:07 And they call it the what the ocean is our lifeblood. And so everybody can make a change, whether it's on an individual level within their communities or within their organizations. And so this marketplace is to now we're now going to throw all the puns at you to create all the pathways. I'm just putting that out there of how you can take action. Right. And so we don't want people to feel paralyzed by not having enough knowledge in order to feel like they can take action. Think of this as your way of taking bite sized pieces of knowledge and then tying that to a tangible change that you can make.

1:36:51 And so we don't want people to feel like they can take action. And so that's really part of the power of the undertow is that we create that platform for you to also inspire that action side of change. And I think also, too, is in Amanda, you kind of said it when you're talking about when you first get dragged in the undertow, it's chaos, right?

1:37:35 You're you're panicking what's going on. But I've seen that happen so many times. People starting to, you know, listen to the podcast or starting to learn about some of the major issues that are happening with the ocean, climate change, plastic pollution, overfishing. It's a lot to take in and the right away we want to go drastic right away. We want to, you know, we want to live, as I mentioned, like four better ocean. We want to live as best we can. But it's very difficult to do that. And so it's very easy to just go, oh, I'm going to just live this way. But then you look around at some of the products that are available, some of the greenwashing that companies are doing. It could be very complex to try and figure out. I mean, look, the three of us have been trying to figure out how to buy Canadian for the last month.

1:38:19 And even then that's difficult because there's so many layers. Well, imagine trying to scale that up to climate change and scale that up to buying like the right type of products. And if you buy the wrong part, somebody's like, well, you're not actually doing what you're supposed to be doing. And I think the goal of the undertow is when we bring you in and you join is to guide you through that process, that chaotic process. And to just like kind of hold your hand, so to speak, and just be like, you know what, it's OK. Like, yes, the ocean has some problems. The world has some problems. But we're going to take you through this and we're going to show you the little things that you can do. But we're also going to show you some of the big things if you are in a position to do so, what you can do.

1:38:59 You know, that could be at the corporate level, that could be at the individual level, that could be at a community level. There's so many things that you can do that will help you not only just start that down that path, but inspire you even more to do it. And like, I have to admit, like when I do something, even just buy a small product that I know is good for the ocean, I feel so good about myself. And I start talking about it to everybody. I know that sounds weird, but I start talking to everybody, people on this podcast. But that's and that's just what we want to do. And we want to provide you with that and provide you with like a safe space to understand that things are complex. It's not as easy as we think to fix some of these problems, but there's different things that we can do to do that.

1:39:43 And we are going to help you guide you through that. And wherever you are in your stage of life, whatever, wherever you are in the world, that you can take part in some sort of capacity and then hopefully build up and then build that repertoire of like, OK, I've gone from one action that may have seemed little to like just gaining your knowledge to all of a sudden ramping up and be like, hey, maybe I came up with a business idea that will help. Or maybe like my entire family is living as as clean as can be, you know, and that kind of stuff. And then you find out you save some money on stuff or who knows, you know, a lot of the times that climate and when you start to change for climate change, things start to get cheaper when you when you really look at it. So so, yeah, I love that. And I think what's really important is that, you know, I still buy plastic, you know, like I there are just some things we're human at the end of the day.

1:40:34 And so I think another important element of this community is the human ocean connection isn't just about your what inspired you to start caring about the water. It's also to bring in the human element of things. Right. What moves you? What are you afraid of? Let's have those real conversations and inspire each other to take action without the judgment and the fear of getting it wrong. Right. Listen, there's enough pressure in the world to get things right. We don't want that to be the thing that stops you from making those little changes. Right. Yeah. I'm on a journey. Amanda is on a journey. Andrew, I'm sure you're still on your journey. Right. By no means is my life perfectly ocean safe and free and or anything. Right.

1:41:18 But do I have a desire to what's my what's my why behind this one? Because I've seen now what's under the water and I love it. And from my days of snorkeling and freediving through to becoming an actual diver, the change that I've seen has been startling. And I think about this from what about my niece and nephew? What about my future children? Like I would love to go take them snorkeling or diving. I would love to take them surfing to try out surfing. But will will it be the same or can we make it better so that they can enjoy and be inspired by all the things that I've been inspired by?

1:42:01 Yeah, Amanda, you talked about the creativity components to like I do my best thinking looking out into space, which, you know, I'm not going to space the water or looking out into the vast ocean. Like that is the thing that calms me that is. And this is something that Amanda and I talked about, you know, something that calms me, sparks my creativity. There's a reason why CEOs have offices that typically look out on vast expanses or have leader leadership retreats that are on the water because it is scientifically proven to allow you to think differently problem solving come from a more centered and grounded place.

1:42:43 And Amanda, I know this is a huge part of what brought you to the ocean. So I'll let you speak to more of the blue mine stuff. I love all of this. And that was the biggest thing is like, if you can connect to just one thing that we can all understand, like we were talking about, you know, the lifeblood and the lungs of the planet and all these metaphors and then analogy things. But when it comes down to it, like in order to sustain the planet, like we have to sustain ourselves as people so that we can take better action for it. So when you can start to create the connection between ocean health and human health or how the well being of the world's bodies of water is connected to our well being as humans, you can follow that thread to better performance, productivity, like reduced stress.

1:43:27 Like if we think of health issues that come, it's not just about air pollution. Like let's also talk about eco anxiety and mental health and the impacts of all of these things. And like you were talking about, Andrew, it's not about like shame based and fear. But when you cannot deny that you genuinely feel better when you go outside and take a breath of fresh air or you stare at an open body of water. And that's really where I was having my own cold water ice plunging like breath depth connection awakening in 2021. I read deep by James Nestor and I was just so blown away by the physiological changes that happened in our bodies like the deeper that we go. That led me on to blue minds and the work of Dr. Jane Nichols. And then I also picked up oceans for dummies by the kustos. And I think they wrote it as like a COVID, you know, project together.

1:44:27 And they had one small chapter at the end of the book called the human ocean connection, which was mostly about all the negative things that humans have done to impact the planet. So it was all like garbage floating, you know, out in the ocean, kind of all of those pieces. But I started looking at the positive side was if you can start to understand that your body and your health and all of these other things absolutely connected to the health of our bodies of water, then maybe that's something that people will start to see. And it still feels like there's no simple way for somebody to just capture that. So you have to speak to them in a way that really resonates with them, which is why when you ask people like, what is your connection to water, like have them sit in that moment and think like, what are the moments where I feel most connected? And then from there, we hope that that will inspire them to want to say like, okay, yeah, there is something that I can do. Just choose one thing, you can't do everything, we can't do everything right.

1:45:24 And the world is really being redesigned right now. So we need these solutions, we need people working on this to be able to reduce those impacts and put better ways forward. So just good to have conversations about it to be able to support each other as those feelings of anxiety and things are coming up, like certainly feeling like there are no good options, like you're getting overwhelmed, but then that kind of social learning element coming together and sharing knowledge and yeah, that's what we're doing. Yeah, I'm just I'm very inspired on a daily basis after the hundreds of coffee chats that I have, you know, in the last couple of years and hearing what other people have tried. Yeah, they've been working in other cultures and what can we like propose and try to bring back to Canada and elsewhere.

1:46:12 Like it's a different way to learn, like I'm very much I don't learn by like traditional textbooks anywhere I love learning through other people's experiences and there's just so many different types of knowledge to be exchanged that I think that adds a lot of value when you include different perspectives as well. Definitely inspiring when you start hearing all these stories being told from all different parts of the world. I mean, that's the good part of social media is you get to connect with as many people as possible that that are within, you know, your area of interest, right? That the topic of interest and I think that's an important part and it's storytelling has always been an important part of conservation, you know, from indigenous led conservation, even to the stories that people talk about all the time when we hear science, you know, it's the reason why I started the podcast because listening to the stories of the people that I admired at conferences that I met through my work, I was just like, how do people not know about these stories?

1:47:13 These stories like you and then straight, you kind of mentioned is like these stories get siloed as well, just as as work does and and it kind of stays within either a culture or a different part of like a specific part of the world and it doesn't get shared across across different platforms or across different countries or across different fields. And that that's frustrating to me. And so to be able to bring and bring in people within the undertow to help share their stories because everybody has a water story. It doesn't matter where you live. You live by the water that is connected to the ocean that's connected to the lifeblood of this planet and without sharing those stories and how everybody is connected.

1:47:54 We remain disconnected, not only as people and as a species, but we remain disconnected in the work and the action that we could take. And I think this is where the undertow comes comes into play. You know, this is where we come in as fostering that community and building this platform to be like, hey, like you feel the same way we do. Like you feel frustrated. You have like certain pain points that you want to help out. You've got a story. Come and join us. You know, we'd love to to bring you in. We'll take you through the chaos. We'll get to that point where we're just floating in the ocean and enjoying our time and and being like, you know what? We got through it. We got through it together. And I think that's an important. It'll bring us closer. And just to put it as analogy, I'm a crossfitter, not a very good one. I'm a crossfitter. And the workouts, if anybody knows anything about crossfit, the workouts are brutal. And it doesn't matter if you're a crossfitter.

1:48:46 And it doesn't matter if you are any elite athlete or you are someone who's just beginning, you work out just as hard. And they always say at the end of it, everybody's on their backs, sweating their butts off, trying to get their breath back and just wondering like, what was that? And then when you start talking about after, you're like, that was awful, but I'm so glad I did it. And you become closer to that. Again, I worked out with like games athletes before. And you know, you bond afterwards and you're just like, okay, I'm going to do this. Like, okay, like that was really cool. And yeah, it sucked. But we got through it and we're better for it on the other side. And I think that's that's exactly what we want to do with the undertow is bring that the people in. Yeah, we'll do a little suffering together.

1:49:30 There's, you know, it's not all good. And then we bring in and but we get through it on the other side and we're like, you know what? I'm really happy where I am right now. No matter where you are in your journey, you can always just kind of put it together and just be like, okay, like we did this together. And you know, we're going to continue to do it together and we're going to continue to build sort of our capacity to do more hard work and to do it together and be able to get through it on the other side. So that's what I love about this. Now, with this podcast is not just to inform you what we're doing, but we are launching very, very shortly. So to do that, we want you to come into our community. And so there's a bit of a pre-registration for it as we build out the platform and get everything ready for all of you.

1:50:12 But we want you to come in and we want to see that excitement. So you can you can pre-register. The link is speak up for blue.com. The undertow. So speak up for blue.com. The undertow. And if you want more information on what we're trying to build, you can go over to the undertow.ca. That's the undertow.ca. You can check us all out. Our profiles are up there. You can check out what we're trying to do. And if you have any questions, you know how to get a hold of me and you guys will link. We'll put links to your social media sites as well. So that you can get a hold of Serena and Amanda. And we're going to build this community and we want you to be a part of it. So it's going to be a lot of fun. And this podcast is now powered by the undertow.

1:50:52 And I'm very excited to say that. Like I can't like I'm shaking a little bit. This is a lot of fun. I'm very, very excited for that. So Serena, Amanda, thank you so much for for coming on the podcast. Obviously this is not this is your first time. I mean, this is your second time. But definitely not the last. We'll have you back on. We'll discuss more of the undertow soon enough. Hopefully we're going to our next episode. We're going to do what we're going to do in person. But of course, if you guys want to come and talk to us, you can do that on the undertow. So speak up for blue.com. The undertow. Check it out. I'll put the links in the show notes. But ladies, thank you so much not only for coming on the podcast, but for what we're about to build. And I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for having us. And we can't wait to share more about how we're going to reach that really big ambitious goal of 10 million new ocean connections and 5 million in ocean action for all of the incredible people doing the work that we've learned about through these stories and connections that we've made over the last few years.

1:51:52 So, Andrew, thanks so much for having us on. We're so excited. And that is very exciting. Powered by the undertow. I like it. Thank you both. I appreciate it. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Thank you, Serena, for joining me on today's episode. This very, very special episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. What do you guys think the undertow? I would love to hear your thoughts. This is going to be something that we're going to be pushing forward and we are going to ask you to join a list so that when we do this, we can be able to help you. We want you to be the first ones here. This podcast is going to be that funnel. One of those funnels to bring in people in the community because you've already listened to me on a number of occasions.

1:52:35 If this is your first time, welcome. If you've been listening to me for a long time, whether it's been a few weeks, a few months, a few years, you know, feel free and come join because you know the evolution that I've been on. You know, the evolution that you've been on in your journey to join. And now we are upping that and we are going to do some great things and I can't wait to get to know you even more within this community is something that I've been wanting to do for a long time and I have the ability to work with two phenomenal women in this project and this business and start up to be able to bring that to you. So having, you know, a lot of people are like, you know, I'm going to be a little bit more of a fan of this. And I can't wait to bring it to you. So if you want to sign up if you want to be a part of the community, please do so speak up for blue.com forward slash the undertow that speak up for blue.com forward slash the undertow.

1:53:30 And you can get access will put you on an email list. Once we get access, we will contact you and you'll be able to join and enjoy the time that you have in there. Give us feedback. We're always looking forward to it. But for now, speak up for blue.com forward slash the undertow is what I'm going to be asking you to do each and every episode is join and I can't wait till you do so. So thank you so much for joining me on today's episode. I want to thank also my co founders, Amanda and Serena for joining me and thank you for listening and thank you for listening. And I'm Andrew Lewin joining the undertow. If you have any questions, you know how to reach me at how to protect the ocean. And thank you so much for joining me today on this episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the true North strong and free. Have a great day.

1:54:12 We'll talk to you next time. And have a conservation.