July 21, 2026
Ghost Nets: Why They Keep Happening and What's Actually Working
A viral TikTok about fish aggregation devices drifting into marine protected areas got Andrew thinking about a topic he hasn't covered in a while: ghost nets. In this episode, he breaks down what ghost nets actually are, the scientific term for them (ALDFG, or abandoned, lost, or otherwise discarded fishing gear), and why they're a growing, well-documented problem from the ocean surface all the way down to the deep seafloor.
Andrew walks through what the peer-reviewed research shows: entanglement patterns across whales, seals, sea turtles, and coral reefs, a personal diving story off Big Cayman where he watched a ghost net get cut free from a loggerhead sea turtle, and the real economic and technical challenges holding back solutions like ropeless fishing gear and biodegradable nets. He also covers where progress is actually happening, from derelict net removal programs to circular economy recycling models.
This isn't a "just stop fishing" episode. Andrew makes the case that ghost nets are a solvable, adaptable problem, but one that needs more research funding, cheaper technology, and stronger enforcement to get there.
Takeaways from this episode:
- Ghost nets (ALDFG) are found from the ocean surface to the deep seafloor, and they keep catching and killing marine life for as long as they remain in the water.
- The animals most affected span whales, seals, sea turtles, and coral reef species, not just fish.
- Solutions like ropeless gear and biodegradable nets are real and improving, but cost and fisher adoption remain the biggest barriers.
- Stopping fishing altogether isn't a realistic fix. The path forward is better gear design, more funding, and stronger enforcement.
- Listeners can support the fisheries and programs that are already investing in gear-loss prevention and removal.
Support Independent Podcasts: https://www.speakupforblue.com/patreon
Need help with your ocean non-profit, company, or project? Get the help you need with Pisces Oceans Inc.: https://www.piscesoceans.ca
Connect with Speak Up For Blue
Website: https://bit.ly/3fOF3Wf
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3rIaJSG
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@speakupforblue
Twitter: https://bit.ly/3rHZxpc
YouTube: www.speakupforblue.com/youtube
Transcript
1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,333
Something kind of crazy happened to me
2
00:00:01,333 --> 00:00:02,625
the other day on TikTok.
3
00:00:03,333 --> 00:00:05,000
I had a video that went viral, a post
4
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,375
that I talked about FADs,
5
00:00:07,375 --> 00:00:08,083
the fish aggregation
6
00:00:08,083 --> 00:00:10,166
devices that were for tuna.
7
00:00:10,916 --> 00:00:12,916
And some of these fish aggregation
8
00:00:12,916 --> 00:00:14,166
devices, these FADs,
9
00:00:14,166 --> 00:00:15,500
were going into,
10
00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:16,875
floating into marine protectors.
11
00:00:17,416 --> 00:00:19,000
Essentially, they were lost. They were
12
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,041
almost like a ghost net.
13
00:00:20,708 --> 00:00:22,791
And the post went viral.
14
00:00:23,250 --> 00:00:24,666
At this point of recording,
15
00:00:24,666 --> 00:00:26,500
I have over 100,000 views.
16
00:00:26,666 --> 00:00:27,625
And normally, I get like
17
00:00:27,625 --> 00:00:29,500
200 views, maybe 300 views.
18
00:00:29,541 --> 00:00:31,958
And it went viral. It went crazy. I got a
19
00:00:31,958 --> 00:00:33,208
lot of eyes on the profile.
20
00:00:33,208 --> 00:00:34,916
I got eyes on the podcast, which was
21
00:00:34,916 --> 00:00:35,875
great. And it was fun.
22
00:00:35,875 --> 00:00:36,958
I got some interesting comments, of
23
00:00:36,958 --> 00:00:38,708
course, but it was a lot of fun to be
24
00:00:38,708 --> 00:00:39,750
able to see that happen.
25
00:00:39,750 --> 00:00:41,500
And it made me think, you know what? I
26
00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:42,791
haven't done a ghost
27
00:00:42,791 --> 00:00:44,375
net podcast in a while.
28
00:00:45,083 --> 00:00:47,458
And with all of this AI and search engine
29
00:00:47,458 --> 00:00:49,208
optimization, just to be transparent,
30
00:00:49,666 --> 00:00:51,291
it's starting to look at, you know,
31
00:00:51,291 --> 00:00:54,416
podcasts and pages on websites that are
32
00:00:54,416 --> 00:00:55,916
showing that they know
33
00:00:55,958 --> 00:00:57,666
a little bit about certain parts of the
34
00:00:57,666 --> 00:00:58,500
subject. So what I wanted to
35
00:00:58,500 --> 00:00:59,833
do is cover a little bit about
36
00:01:00,041 --> 00:01:02,291
ghost nets, what they are, how do we, why
37
00:01:02,291 --> 00:01:03,416
they keep happening? Why
38
00:01:03,416 --> 00:01:04,333
do we keep seeing them?
39
00:01:04,708 --> 00:01:06,416
What's being done to clean them up and so
40
00:01:06,416 --> 00:01:07,083
forth. And we're going to
41
00:01:07,083 --> 00:01:08,416
talk about that on today's
42
00:01:08,416 --> 00:01:10,041
episode of the how to protect the ocean
43
00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:10,833
podcast, because this is
44
00:01:10,833 --> 00:01:12,708
where you find your weekday ocean
45
00:01:12,708 --> 00:01:16,625
news Monday to Friday on oceans. And this
46
00:01:16,625 --> 00:01:17,625
is your ocean resource. So
47
00:01:17,625 --> 00:01:18,916
this is what I want to do for
48
00:01:18,916 --> 00:01:21,125
you is be your ocean resource. So if you
49
00:01:21,125 --> 00:01:22,333
want me to get that, or
50
00:01:22,333 --> 00:01:23,375
you want me to provide that,
51
00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:25,916
you can go to your favorite podcast app
52
00:01:25,916 --> 00:01:26,625
that you're listening this on
53
00:01:26,625 --> 00:01:27,375
and say, Hey, you know what,
54
00:01:27,375 --> 00:01:28,791
I'm going to follow this, just click that
55
00:01:28,791 --> 00:01:30,208
button, don't tap it, click
56
00:01:30,208 --> 00:01:32,500
it, whatever you do. And I
57
00:01:32,500 --> 00:01:36,125
will be in your feed Monday to Friday. So
58
00:01:36,125 --> 00:01:36,833
you can take a look at that,
59
00:01:36,833 --> 00:01:37,750
or you can take a listen to
60
00:01:37,750 --> 00:01:39,791
that. So that's always fun. So follow
61
00:01:39,791 --> 00:01:40,833
that. And of course, if you want to
62
00:01:40,833 --> 00:01:41,708
support the podcast,
63
00:01:41,708 --> 00:01:43,500
if you feel the need to support all the
64
00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:44,166
stuff we do, we do the
65
00:01:44,166 --> 00:01:45,541
podcast, we do YouTube, I'm going
66
00:01:45,541 --> 00:01:47,125
to be starting doing ocean decoded live
67
00:01:47,125 --> 00:01:49,458
Monday to Fridays. I'm also
68
00:01:49,458 --> 00:01:51,500
going to be I do things on
69
00:01:51,541 --> 00:01:53,750
Tik TOK and Instagram and Facebook and so
70
00:01:53,750 --> 00:01:55,208
forth. And so if you enjoy
71
00:01:55,208 --> 00:01:56,416
that and you want to support
72
00:01:56,416 --> 00:01:58,333
me, you can go to speak up for blue.com
73
00:01:58,333 --> 00:02:00,375
forward slash Patreon that
74
00:02:00,375 --> 00:02:02,500
speak up for blue.com forward
75
00:02:02,958 --> 00:02:05,958
slash Patreon. Now I want to talk about
76
00:02:05,958 --> 00:02:07,916
ghost nets because ghost
77
00:02:07,916 --> 00:02:08,708
nets are really interesting.
78
00:02:08,708 --> 00:02:09,916
If you don't know what ghost nets are,
79
00:02:09,916 --> 00:02:12,791
essentially they are nets that have been
80
00:02:12,791 --> 00:02:14,500
lost at sea. So these
81
00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:17,000
are fishing nets that have been used and
82
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,500
maybe lost because of bad
83
00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:19,583
weather, or maybe they're
84
00:02:19,583 --> 00:02:21,666
discarded over the boat, but they've
85
00:02:21,666 --> 00:02:23,125
essentially been lost. And what they do
86
00:02:23,125 --> 00:02:24,291
is these, these large
87
00:02:24,333 --> 00:02:27,416
nets are found all over the world in the
88
00:02:27,416 --> 00:02:28,541
oceans, whether it's in the
89
00:02:28,541 --> 00:02:29,750
deep sea, whether it's in the
90
00:02:29,750 --> 00:02:31,333
floating on the top or whether it's in
91
00:02:31,333 --> 00:02:32,541
the water column, and they
92
00:02:32,541 --> 00:02:34,916
continue to catch fish, marine
93
00:02:34,916 --> 00:02:37,875
mammals, sea turtles, other fish like
94
00:02:37,875 --> 00:02:41,041
sharks and so forth. And they die, they
95
00:02:41,041 --> 00:02:41,875
can't, they can't get
96
00:02:41,875 --> 00:02:43,250
out of it and they end up dying, but
97
00:02:43,250 --> 00:02:45,208
nobody's fishing them because
98
00:02:45,208 --> 00:02:46,208
it's just, it's a net that's
99
00:02:46,250 --> 00:02:48,583
just floating. It's a ghost net. And the
100
00:02:48,583 --> 00:02:50,416
scientific term actually is abandoned,
101
00:02:50,791 --> 00:02:52,583
lost or otherwise discarded
102
00:02:52,583 --> 00:02:55,833
fishing gear known as ALDFG.
103
00:02:55,916 --> 00:02:57,541
It's a huge acronym. It doesn't really
104
00:02:57,541 --> 00:02:59,583
sound like anything really important, but
105
00:02:59,583 --> 00:03:00,916
it's something that's, that's really
106
00:03:00,916 --> 00:03:02,541
important. It's defined as
107
00:03:03,208 --> 00:03:05,458
gear that continues to catch or kill
108
00:03:05,458 --> 00:03:08,250
marine life with no one checking or
109
00:03:08,250 --> 00:03:10,458
retrieving it. And it's a process called
110
00:03:10,458 --> 00:03:11,791
ghost fishing. So
111
00:03:11,791 --> 00:03:13,208
ghost nets, ghost fishing,
112
00:03:13,375 --> 00:03:15,416
go hand in hand. And it's recognized in
113
00:03:15,416 --> 00:03:19,083
the peer review literature as a major and
114
00:03:19,083 --> 00:03:20,708
growing contributor to marine plastic
115
00:03:20,708 --> 00:03:23,083
pollution distinct from other litter
116
00:03:23,083 --> 00:03:24,708
because it is specifically designed to
117
00:03:24,708 --> 00:03:26,458
catch and hold living things.
118
00:03:27,083 --> 00:03:29,666
Now, a 2023 deep sea survey around the
119
00:03:29,666 --> 00:03:33,000
Azores near Portugal or in Portugal used
120
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,750
351 dives and 15 years of seafloor
121
00:03:36,750 --> 00:03:39,458
footage from 2006 to 2020
122
00:03:39,458 --> 00:03:41,666
and found an average of roughly
123
00:03:41,708 --> 00:03:47,666
597 items of ghost nets related gear per
124
00:03:47,666 --> 00:03:50,791
square kilometer on the seafloor. That's
125
00:03:50,791 --> 00:03:53,500
per square kilometer. It shows that it
126
00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:54,541
isn't just the surface
127
00:03:54,541 --> 00:03:55,625
or a coastal problem.
128
00:03:55,916 --> 00:03:58,125
It reaches the deep sea as well. So
129
00:03:58,125 --> 00:03:59,500
that's obviously something that we don't
130
00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:01,625
like to see, but this is something that
131
00:04:01,625 --> 00:04:04,250
we need to dive into. So why does ghost
132
00:04:04,250 --> 00:04:05,666
net really matter other
133
00:04:05,666 --> 00:04:06,666
than just catching fish?
134
00:04:06,958 --> 00:04:09,083
Well, a study using social media records
135
00:04:09,083 --> 00:04:12,041
from 2012 to 2023 documented 144
136
00:04:12,041 --> 00:04:16,458
individual animals across 35 species, 13
137
00:04:16,458 --> 00:04:18,041
of them were actually endangered or
138
00:04:18,041 --> 00:04:20,500
vulnerable were entangled in derelict
139
00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:22,291
gear in the Indian
140
00:04:22,291 --> 00:04:23,458
coastal and freshwater systems.
141
00:04:23,666 --> 00:04:26,583
So that's just one study. Now we know
142
00:04:26,583 --> 00:04:28,916
with the North Atlantic right whale, we
143
00:04:28,916 --> 00:04:30,958
see entanglements all the time. Sometimes
144
00:04:30,958 --> 00:04:32,958
we don't see those entanglements and you
145
00:04:32,958 --> 00:04:34,166
know, the whales will wash up or
146
00:04:34,166 --> 00:04:34,916
sometimes we don't see them
147
00:04:34,916 --> 00:04:35,666
at all, but they're entangled.
148
00:04:35,666 --> 00:04:38,333
And what happens is the nets get caught
149
00:04:38,333 --> 00:04:40,916
or the ropes get the lines get caught on
150
00:04:40,916 --> 00:04:43,208
their pectoral fins. And as they continue
151
00:04:43,208 --> 00:04:45,208
to swim, the lines dig into their
152
00:04:45,208 --> 00:04:47,750
pectoral fins and it continues to make a
153
00:04:47,750 --> 00:04:50,083
mark. It starts to bleed. It gets
154
00:04:50,083 --> 00:04:52,500
infected and eventually the animal can
155
00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:55,541
die. It can also be see seals and sea
156
00:04:55,541 --> 00:04:57,208
lines that like the nets around their
157
00:04:57,208 --> 00:04:58,000
neck. It can cause
158
00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,666
asphyxiation, strangle them.
159
00:04:59,708 --> 00:05:02,375
It could also cause a lot of problems
160
00:05:02,375 --> 00:05:04,541
trying to feed or anything like that.
161
00:05:04,916 --> 00:05:07,541
There are people who roam beaches to try
162
00:05:07,541 --> 00:05:10,500
and free sea lions and seals with these
163
00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:12,041
nets around their neck. And unfortunately
164
00:05:12,041 --> 00:05:13,666
it happens to too many people.
165
00:05:13,708 --> 00:05:15,333
And of course sea turtle hatchling
166
00:05:15,333 --> 00:05:17,708
mortality has been directly linked to
167
00:05:17,708 --> 00:05:20,333
derelict nets and synthetic rope
168
00:05:20,333 --> 00:05:23,333
entanglement in recent fishing in recent
169
00:05:23,333 --> 00:05:26,041
field research with over 200 dead
170
00:05:26,041 --> 00:05:26,750
hatchlings recorded
171
00:05:26,750 --> 00:05:29,000
primarily trapped in the gear.
172
00:05:29,416 --> 00:05:31,916
And that was a study in 2025. Now, of
173
00:05:31,916 --> 00:05:33,166
course, I talked a little bit about deep
174
00:05:33,166 --> 00:05:35,291
sea impacts, but researchers have found
175
00:05:35,291 --> 00:05:39,208
that ALDFG entangled in cold water coral
176
00:05:39,208 --> 00:05:41,375
colonies across multiple regions,
177
00:05:41,583 --> 00:05:42,666
including the northwestern Mediterranean.
178
00:05:42,708 --> 00:05:45,916
The Lingeran Sea, England's Atlantic
179
00:05:45,916 --> 00:05:49,208
Coast and the Azores showing is this is a
180
00:05:49,208 --> 00:05:52,375
consistent cross sectional pattern rather
181
00:05:52,375 --> 00:05:53,666
than an isolated finding.
182
00:05:54,291 --> 00:05:56,000
So this is something that's happening
183
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,916
more and more in a related study
184
00:05:57,916 --> 00:06:00,458
specifically examined how abandoned ghost
185
00:06:00,458 --> 00:06:02,416
neck gear becomes incorporated into
186
00:06:02,416 --> 00:06:04,208
structural growth of the coral species.
187
00:06:04,750 --> 00:06:08,333
Dendrophilia, Philia, Dendrophilia ramia
188
00:06:08,333 --> 00:06:10,875
along Portugal's Atlantic Coast,
189
00:06:11,166 --> 00:06:11,666
illustrating how litter flies and the other.
190
00:06:11,666 --> 00:06:14,333
And how litter physically integrates into
191
00:06:14,333 --> 00:06:16,625
living restructures over time. Now, one
192
00:06:16,625 --> 00:06:18,583
of the interesting stories of like diving
193
00:06:18,583 --> 00:06:20,666
stories that I have is I remember diving
194
00:06:20,666 --> 00:06:22,583
off the coast of the
195
00:06:22,583 --> 00:06:24,208
Cayman Islands, Big Cayman.
196
00:06:24,625 --> 00:06:26,708
And I was diving with some older people
197
00:06:26,708 --> 00:06:28,833
like in their 50s and 60s. They have a
198
00:06:28,833 --> 00:06:29,958
lot more experience than I do. They were
199
00:06:29,958 --> 00:06:30,666
in rebreathers and stuff.
200
00:06:30,666 --> 00:06:33,125
And we were doing a dive start off at 100
201
00:06:33,125 --> 00:06:34,833
feet. That was our deepest depth. Then we
202
00:06:34,833 --> 00:06:36,750
started to kind of slowly climb up on a
203
00:06:36,750 --> 00:06:39,583
reef about 60 days, 70 feet body amount
204
00:06:39,583 --> 00:06:41,750
and kind of hanging out there.
205
00:06:41,750 --> 00:06:43,833
And one of the guys was a diver and
206
00:06:43,833 --> 00:06:46,125
obviously and he was doing something
207
00:06:46,125 --> 00:06:48,000
around a coral reef and I was like, Oh,
208
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:48,666
what's he doing? So I kind of came around to watch.
209
00:06:48,666 --> 00:06:51,416
He had a knife out and he was actually
210
00:06:51,416 --> 00:06:54,458
taking off some fishing net gear that had
211
00:06:54,458 --> 00:06:56,291
been lost. So, you know, these ghost nets
212
00:06:56,291 --> 00:06:58,250
and there were some species in there like
213
00:06:58,250 --> 00:07:00,125
some little shrimp and some nematodes and
214
00:07:00,125 --> 00:07:01,416
some fish and stuff like that.
215
00:07:01,416 --> 00:07:03,666
So he was actually cutting them off. And
216
00:07:03,666 --> 00:07:05,000
what was interesting about it is like
217
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,750
during that time, I'm saying you got a
218
00:07:06,750 --> 00:07:08,041
picture as both scuba diving.
219
00:07:08,041 --> 00:07:09,875
He's kind of floating above the reef. I'm
220
00:07:09,875 --> 00:07:11,125
floating above the reef, probably about
221
00:07:11,125 --> 00:07:12,916
two feet above him. And we're just kind
222
00:07:12,916 --> 00:07:13,666
of maybe a little bit more in line than that.
223
00:07:13,666 --> 00:07:16,041
Maybe it wasn't two feet and where
224
00:07:16,041 --> 00:07:17,541
there's a bit of a space in between us.
225
00:07:17,541 --> 00:07:19,708
And as we're watch as I'm watching this
226
00:07:19,708 --> 00:07:22,458
guy take the ghost net gear off this
227
00:07:22,458 --> 00:07:23,458
loggerhead sea turtle
228
00:07:23,458 --> 00:07:25,000
comes right over top of us.
229
00:07:25,375 --> 00:07:27,125
And he just kind of peaks his head. He or
230
00:07:27,125 --> 00:07:29,833
she, I don't remember peaks head and he
231
00:07:29,833 --> 00:07:31,375
starts looking at us and he looks at both
232
00:07:31,375 --> 00:07:32,125
of us and kind of
233
00:07:32,125 --> 00:07:34,083
feels like he gave a nod.
234
00:07:34,083 --> 00:07:35,875
I'm probably exaggerating a little bit,
235
00:07:35,875 --> 00:07:37,416
but it feels like he gave a nod and just
236
00:07:37,416 --> 00:07:38,750
kind of came out almost like a, Hey,
237
00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:39,375
thanks a lot for
238
00:07:39,375 --> 00:07:40,458
taking this away from us.
239
00:07:40,916 --> 00:07:42,541
But this is your stuff anyway. So take it
240
00:07:42,541 --> 00:07:44,250
back to the surface and keep it there,
241
00:07:44,250 --> 00:07:45,875
which is where we want to do. We don't,
242
00:07:45,875 --> 00:07:48,416
we want to keep it back at the surface
243
00:07:48,416 --> 00:07:50,083
because we don't want that to keep coming
244
00:07:50,083 --> 00:07:53,083
out onto the bottom, right?
245
00:07:53,083 --> 00:07:54,458
Because that's something that, you know,
246
00:07:54,458 --> 00:07:57,416
we just don't want to do. Now, one of the
247
00:07:57,416 --> 00:07:59,375
things that's interesting beyond like
248
00:07:59,375 --> 00:08:01,625
looking at seeing ghost nets in the
249
00:08:01,625 --> 00:08:02,625
waters, why it keeps happening.
250
00:08:02,708 --> 00:08:05,791
So some of the challenges that have been
251
00:08:05,791 --> 00:08:07,458
identified in some of the research that I
252
00:08:07,458 --> 00:08:10,291
looked up in the literature. So there's
253
00:08:10,291 --> 00:08:12,250
also there's an economic cost to the
254
00:08:12,250 --> 00:08:13,666
fishing industry itself, right? Because
255
00:08:13,666 --> 00:08:15,833
you lose the nets. It's
256
00:08:15,833 --> 00:08:17,666
something that's a big problem.
257
00:08:18,083 --> 00:08:20,666
A 2023 study modeling the English channel
258
00:08:20,666 --> 00:08:23,208
static gear fishery found real economic
259
00:08:23,208 --> 00:08:25,500
costs tied to gear loss and ghost fishing
260
00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:27,791
and found that current biodegradable gear
261
00:08:27,791 --> 00:08:29,916
designs need improvement before
262
00:08:29,916 --> 00:08:32,250
meaningfully reducing the
263
00:08:32,250 --> 00:08:34,500
costs of these types of gear.
264
00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:36,208
So there needs to be more research in the
265
00:08:36,208 --> 00:08:38,291
biodegradable gear in case it does get
266
00:08:38,291 --> 00:08:39,750
lost. It could just biodegrade. It could
267
00:08:39,750 --> 00:08:41,541
just basically disintegrate into the
268
00:08:41,541 --> 00:08:43,625
ocean without having problems. Obviously,
269
00:08:43,625 --> 00:08:44,708
we're not there yet and
270
00:08:44,708 --> 00:08:45,666
there still needs to be done.
271
00:08:45,708 --> 00:08:48,625
But look, about 10 years ago when I was
272
00:08:48,625 --> 00:08:50,500
at the International Marine Conservation
273
00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:53,375
Congress, there was a hackathon that was
274
00:08:53,375 --> 00:08:56,083
happening in Malaysia. And I remember it
275
00:08:56,083 --> 00:08:57,833
was a really cool thing. They had all
276
00:08:57,833 --> 00:08:59,041
these engineers, all these people who
277
00:08:59,041 --> 00:09:00,916
like to do these hackathons. And then we
278
00:09:00,916 --> 00:09:02,708
had a presentation. There were five ocean
279
00:09:02,708 --> 00:09:04,291
issues that we were dealing with. One of
280
00:09:04,291 --> 00:09:07,125
them was crab and lobster fishing and all
281
00:09:07,125 --> 00:09:08,708
that kind of coming up with a fishing
282
00:09:08,708 --> 00:09:10,666
gear that would reduce entanglement.
283
00:09:10,708 --> 00:09:13,500
And one of the ideas was to have a
284
00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:17,750
ropeless or a lineless lobster or crab
285
00:09:17,750 --> 00:09:21,125
trap. And so what was basically the idea
286
00:09:21,125 --> 00:09:22,708
that was done in the prototype that was
287
00:09:22,708 --> 00:09:24,166
done that actually won the competition,
288
00:09:24,666 --> 00:09:25,666
even though there's other
289
00:09:25,666 --> 00:09:26,541
issues that they covered.
290
00:09:27,250 --> 00:09:29,375
They actually had this ropeless one where
291
00:09:29,375 --> 00:09:31,166
you'd have balloons that would pop up.
292
00:09:31,625 --> 00:09:33,416
And when you press the button as you want
293
00:09:33,416 --> 00:09:35,083
to retrieve your gear and it
294
00:09:35,083 --> 00:09:36,333
would float to the surface.
295
00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:39,166
Now, when that first came out, people
296
00:09:39,166 --> 00:09:40,416
were like, "This isn't going to work.
297
00:09:40,416 --> 00:09:41,333
There's going to be a lot of problems.
298
00:09:41,333 --> 00:09:42,666
The ocean is pretty harsh. How are we
299
00:09:42,666 --> 00:09:43,916
going to find it?" All this kind of
300
00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:45,708
stuff. And we still need to put buoys to
301
00:09:45,708 --> 00:09:47,583
make sure we can find it and GPS tracks
302
00:09:47,583 --> 00:09:48,375
and everything like that.
303
00:09:48,500 --> 00:09:49,708
And there were a lot of problems when
304
00:09:49,708 --> 00:09:51,166
they tried it out. I remember talking to
305
00:09:51,166 --> 00:09:52,750
some fishers and they were saying, "Yeah,
306
00:09:52,750 --> 00:09:55,000
it's really expensive. We don't really
307
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,166
know if it's going to be working." And
308
00:09:57,166 --> 00:09:58,250
some of the trials haven't
309
00:09:58,250 --> 00:09:59,666
really shown that it worked.
310
00:09:59,708 --> 00:10:01,916
But it gets better and better. The
311
00:10:01,916 --> 00:10:03,458
technology gets better and better as more
312
00:10:03,458 --> 00:10:05,416
experimentation happens and as people are
313
00:10:05,416 --> 00:10:07,833
trying it out. And now there's a lot of
314
00:10:07,833 --> 00:10:10,166
fisheries in Canada on the east coast
315
00:10:10,166 --> 00:10:12,833
that are experimenting with this and see
316
00:10:12,833 --> 00:10:15,000
how much retrieval can
317
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,333
happen and all that kind of stuff.
318
00:10:16,333 --> 00:10:17,958
And the gear is getting cheaper and
319
00:10:17,958 --> 00:10:19,166
cheaper. So we're starting to see some
320
00:10:19,166 --> 00:10:21,750
headway. So, you know, with biodegradable
321
00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:24,916
nets, we might see some more headway as
322
00:10:24,916 --> 00:10:25,666
we move into the future.
323
00:10:25,708 --> 00:10:28,625
So I think it's good, but it isn't a
324
00:10:28,625 --> 00:10:31,666
simple fix yet. A 2025 laboratory
325
00:10:31,666 --> 00:10:34,375
comparison of biodegradable copolyester
326
00:10:34,375 --> 00:10:36,750
microfilaments against traditional
327
00:10:36,750 --> 00:10:40,833
polyamide monofilaments tested degrading
328
00:10:40,833 --> 00:10:42,250
degradation rates
329
00:10:42,250 --> 00:10:43,666
under accelerated aging.
330
00:10:43,666 --> 00:10:46,541
But part of an active research effort to
331
00:10:46,541 --> 00:10:48,291
find materials that break down fast
332
00:10:48,291 --> 00:10:50,041
enough to stop ghost fishing, but it
333
00:10:50,041 --> 00:10:52,708
didn't, but hold up long
334
00:10:52,708 --> 00:10:54,833
enough to still catch the fish.
335
00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:56,583
But there still needs to be
336
00:10:56,583 --> 00:10:58,166
experimentation on that one. And in
337
00:10:58,166 --> 00:11:00,291
economic feasibility research cited in
338
00:11:00,291 --> 00:11:02,916
2025, synthesis found biodegradable gear
339
00:11:02,916 --> 00:11:06,000
runs about 30 to 50% more expensive than
340
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,666
conventional gear on average.
341
00:11:07,708 --> 00:11:11,000
And a major barrier for small scale
342
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,458
fishing operations on tight margins,
343
00:11:13,791 --> 00:11:14,458
particularly in low
344
00:11:14,458 --> 00:11:16,166
income fishing communities.
345
00:11:16,625 --> 00:11:20,083
In 2025, experimental study of Norwegian
346
00:11:20,083 --> 00:11:22,458
fishers found willingness to adopt
347
00:11:22,458 --> 00:11:25,250
biodegradable gear is highly conditional.
348
00:11:25,833 --> 00:11:28,083
Right. The fishers will switch if catch
349
00:11:28,083 --> 00:11:30,000
efficiencies matches conventional gear.
350
00:11:30,375 --> 00:11:33,500
That makes sense. But as relative
351
00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:35,583
efficiency drops, adoption becomes
352
00:11:35,583 --> 00:11:38,083
contingent on whether the other fishers
353
00:11:38,083 --> 00:11:40,208
adopted too. So it's a little bit of a
354
00:11:40,208 --> 00:11:41,416
peer pressure thing.
355
00:11:41,833 --> 00:11:44,125
Meaning individual incentives are likely
356
00:11:44,125 --> 00:11:47,750
won't alone won't likely drive the shift.
357
00:11:48,208 --> 00:11:49,500
So that's something that's interesting.
358
00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:50,500
And of course, local knowledge and
359
00:11:50,500 --> 00:11:52,500
enforcement gaps are really important. A
360
00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:55,291
2026 study in Cameron small scale fishing
361
00:11:55,291 --> 00:11:58,833
marine fisheries used local ecological
362
00:11:58,833 --> 00:12:00,250
knowledge from fishers and state
363
00:12:00,250 --> 00:12:02,000
professionals and state officials to
364
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,791
examine why gear gets lost, abandoned or
365
00:12:04,791 --> 00:12:07,333
discarded and found that weak enforcement
366
00:12:07,333 --> 00:12:09,666
of gear registration and marking policies
367
00:12:09,875 --> 00:12:12,000
means fishers face little to no
368
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,125
consequences for
369
00:12:13,125 --> 00:12:15,041
failing to report lost gear.
370
00:12:15,916 --> 00:12:16,916
So there's a lot of, you know, still a
371
00:12:16,916 --> 00:12:17,750
lot of problems with some of the
372
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:19,083
solutions that are out there, but
373
00:12:19,083 --> 00:12:20,875
something that's working solutions that
374
00:12:20,875 --> 00:12:22,833
are being tested within that
375
00:12:22,833 --> 00:12:23,666
I looked up in the literature.
376
00:12:23,666 --> 00:12:26,250
So there's systematic evidence for
377
00:12:26,250 --> 00:12:28,333
recycling. So 2026 systematic literature
378
00:12:28,333 --> 00:12:30,750
review following Prisma methodology,
379
00:12:31,041 --> 00:12:33,166
synthesized at 17 peer reviewed studies
380
00:12:33,166 --> 00:12:37,541
from 2015 to 2025 across marine ecology
381
00:12:37,541 --> 00:12:39,625
materials and engineering and circular
382
00:12:39,625 --> 00:12:41,666
economy research evaluating both
383
00:12:41,666 --> 00:12:44,416
ecological impacts of ghost nets and the
384
00:12:44,416 --> 00:12:46,750
technical feasibility of recycling
385
00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:49,416
recovered fishing gear polymers into new
386
00:12:49,416 --> 00:12:52,666
products using Hawaii as a case model.
387
00:12:52,708 --> 00:12:54,958
So there have been some successes around
388
00:12:54,958 --> 00:12:56,583
there. And of course, researchers from
389
00:12:56,583 --> 00:12:58,083
British Columbia, Salish Sea documents
390
00:12:58,083 --> 00:13:00,625
active derelict net removal programs
391
00:13:00,625 --> 00:13:03,208
designed specifically around safeguarding
392
00:13:03,208 --> 00:13:05,416
habitat and reducing mortality across
393
00:13:05,416 --> 00:13:08,125
multiple species cited a model approach
394
00:13:08,125 --> 00:13:10,625
within deep sea ghost net literature.
395
00:13:10,708 --> 00:13:12,083
So that's nice to see that there are some
396
00:13:12,083 --> 00:13:13,875
things that are working out. And of
397
00:13:13,875 --> 00:13:15,041
course, there's still material science
398
00:13:15,041 --> 00:13:17,000
progress is happening ongoing degradation
399
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,291
testing of specific polymers represents
400
00:13:21,291 --> 00:13:23,583
the live edge of material research aimed
401
00:13:23,583 --> 00:13:25,208
at gear that ghost net
402
00:13:25,208 --> 00:13:27,750
fish fishes for months.
403
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,541
So that's not century. So that's good.
404
00:13:29,541 --> 00:13:31,041
We're starting to see a reduction in that
405
00:13:31,041 --> 00:13:33,458
by like 100 years, which is great to see.
406
00:13:33,916 --> 00:13:36,166
So look, the peer reviewed literature
407
00:13:36,166 --> 00:13:38,416
that we looked up for this study is for
408
00:13:38,416 --> 00:13:39,666
this episode is consistent.
409
00:13:39,833 --> 00:13:44,250
Ghost nets is a measurable quantifiable
410
00:13:44,250 --> 00:13:46,333
problem from the sea surface to the deep
411
00:13:46,333 --> 00:13:48,416
sea. We definitely know that it's
412
00:13:48,416 --> 00:13:50,166
definitely a problem. And the fixes on
413
00:13:50,166 --> 00:13:52,208
the table like biodegradable materials or
414
00:13:52,208 --> 00:13:54,583
recycling better enforcement are all
415
00:13:54,583 --> 00:13:57,208
real, but each comes with its own trade
416
00:13:57,208 --> 00:13:58,375
off that scientists are
417
00:13:58,375 --> 00:13:59,666
actively working through.
418
00:13:59,666 --> 00:14:02,458
And we need more progress. We need more
419
00:14:02,458 --> 00:14:04,666
research on this. We need more pilot
420
00:14:04,666 --> 00:14:06,625
studies on this to ensure that these
421
00:14:06,625 --> 00:14:09,541
ghost nets, one can not affect other
422
00:14:09,541 --> 00:14:11,791
fishes or marine mammals or sea turtles
423
00:14:11,791 --> 00:14:13,000
or sea birds. I always
424
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,458
forget seabirds in that last one.
425
00:14:15,041 --> 00:14:17,583
But also like to be able to have more
426
00:14:17,583 --> 00:14:20,791
efficiency and less expand, make sure
427
00:14:20,791 --> 00:14:22,208
they're less expensive so that they'll be
428
00:14:22,208 --> 00:14:24,625
adopted by fishers. A lot of times
429
00:14:24,625 --> 00:14:25,958
fishers who use these
430
00:14:25,958 --> 00:14:26,666
types of nets are small scale.
431
00:14:26,666 --> 00:14:30,500
They don't have a big budget. Some of the
432
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:32,708
major corporations do have those big
433
00:14:32,708 --> 00:14:34,416
budgets so they could be using this type
434
00:14:34,416 --> 00:14:36,666
of stuff too. But a lot of the fishers
435
00:14:36,666 --> 00:14:38,000
don't have it and we need to make sure we
436
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,125
can get those in those hands.
437
00:14:39,541 --> 00:14:43,000
So lots of research, more funding and
438
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,208
more adoption is needed. And there's a
439
00:14:45,208 --> 00:14:46,625
lot of stuff that we talked about today.
440
00:14:46,625 --> 00:14:47,625
And I would love to hear from you what
441
00:14:47,625 --> 00:14:50,000
you think is needed when we look at
442
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,666
managing ghost nets and making sure.
443
00:14:51,708 --> 00:14:54,041
And I know a lot of people will say, Hey,
444
00:14:54,041 --> 00:14:55,083
you know what? We just got to stop
445
00:14:55,083 --> 00:14:56,625
fishing and reduce fishing in certain
446
00:14:56,625 --> 00:14:57,916
situations that's going to work in other
447
00:14:57,916 --> 00:14:59,208
situations. It's not going to work
448
00:14:59,208 --> 00:15:01,083
because people need to fish. They need to
449
00:15:01,083 --> 00:15:02,375
their protein source. They need to make
450
00:15:02,375 --> 00:15:04,083
money for their families. It's not going
451
00:15:04,083 --> 00:15:05,750
away anytime soon. There are certain
452
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:07,708
cases that yet can be reduced to nothing.
453
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,375
But there's other situations where
454
00:15:09,375 --> 00:15:11,166
fishing is just always going to happen.
455
00:15:11,166 --> 00:15:12,958
And we need to make sure that we can
456
00:15:12,958 --> 00:15:15,666
adapt to that as quickly as possible.
457
00:15:15,708 --> 00:15:17,625
That's it for today's episode. I'd love
458
00:15:17,625 --> 00:15:19,291
to hear your thoughts. You can hit me up
459
00:15:19,291 --> 00:15:22,083
on Instagram, TikTok, wherever you want
460
00:15:22,083 --> 00:15:24,041
to DM me. You'd also go to speak up for
461
00:15:24,041 --> 00:15:26,625
blue.com to find out more about the
462
00:15:26,625 --> 00:15:28,791
podcast that we have beyond Jaws and how
463
00:15:28,791 --> 00:15:30,625
to protect the ocean. This one, you can
464
00:15:30,625 --> 00:15:32,083
also follow those when you go to the
465
00:15:32,083 --> 00:15:33,166
website. And of course, if you want to
466
00:15:33,166 --> 00:15:34,583
support me, you can go to speak up for
467
00:15:34,583 --> 00:15:37,291
blue.com forward slash Patreon can
468
00:15:37,291 --> 00:15:39,000
support the stuff that I create on this
469
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,125
podcast on YouTube as well as Instagram,
470
00:15:42,125 --> 00:15:43,791
TikTok and Facebook and
471
00:15:43,791 --> 00:15:44,666
all the socials on LinkedIn.
472
00:15:44,708 --> 00:15:46,833
We do a lot of work here to make sure
473
00:15:46,833 --> 00:15:48,583
that we provide you with the resource for
474
00:15:48,583 --> 00:15:50,666
oceans. If you like that kind of stuff,
475
00:15:50,666 --> 00:15:52,666
support me speak up for blue.com forward
476
00:15:52,666 --> 00:15:55,125
slash Patreon. I would really appreciate
477
00:15:55,125 --> 00:15:57,166
your support. I want to thank you so much
478
00:15:57,166 --> 00:15:58,916
for joining me on today's episode of the
479
00:15:58,916 --> 00:16:00,541
how to protect the ocean podcast. I'm
480
00:16:00,541 --> 00:16:01,916
your host, Angelo, and have a great day.
481
00:16:01,916 --> 00:16:02,416
We'll talk to you next
482
00:16:02,416 --> 00:16:03,666
time and happy conservation.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,333
Something kind of crazy happened to me
2
00:00:01,333 --> 00:00:02,625
the other day on TikTok.
3
00:00:03,333 --> 00:00:05,000
I had a video that went viral, a post
4
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,375
that I talked about FADs,
5
00:00:07,375 --> 00:00:08,083
the fish aggregation
6
00:00:08,083 --> 00:00:10,166
devices that were for tuna.
7
00:00:10,916 --> 00:00:12,916
And some of these fish aggregation
8
00:00:12,916 --> 00:00:14,166
devices, these FADs,
9
00:00:14,166 --> 00:00:15,500
were going into,
10
00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:16,875
floating into marine protectors.
11
00:00:17,416 --> 00:00:19,000
Essentially, they were lost. They were
12
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,041
almost like a ghost net.
13
00:00:20,708 --> 00:00:22,791
And the post went viral.
14
00:00:23,250 --> 00:00:24,666
At this point of recording,
15
00:00:24,666 --> 00:00:26,500
I have over 100,000 views.
16
00:00:26,666 --> 00:00:27,625
And normally, I get like
17
00:00:27,625 --> 00:00:29,500
200 views, maybe 300 views.
18
00:00:29,541 --> 00:00:31,958
And it went viral. It went crazy. I got a
19
00:00:31,958 --> 00:00:33,208
lot of eyes on the profile.
20
00:00:33,208 --> 00:00:34,916
I got eyes on the podcast, which was
21
00:00:34,916 --> 00:00:35,875
great. And it was fun.
22
00:00:35,875 --> 00:00:36,958
I got some interesting comments, of
23
00:00:36,958 --> 00:00:38,708
course, but it was a lot of fun to be
24
00:00:38,708 --> 00:00:39,750
able to see that happen.
25
00:00:39,750 --> 00:00:41,500
And it made me think, you know what? I
26
00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:42,791
haven't done a ghost
27
00:00:42,791 --> 00:00:44,375
net podcast in a while.
28
00:00:45,083 --> 00:00:47,458
And with all of this AI and search engine
29
00:00:47,458 --> 00:00:49,208
optimization, just to be transparent,
30
00:00:49,666 --> 00:00:51,291
it's starting to look at, you know,
31
00:00:51,291 --> 00:00:54,416
podcasts and pages on websites that are
32
00:00:54,416 --> 00:00:55,916
showing that they know
33
00:00:55,958 --> 00:00:57,666
a little bit about certain parts of the
34
00:00:57,666 --> 00:00:58,500
subject. So what I wanted to
35
00:00:58,500 --> 00:00:59,833
do is cover a little bit about
36
00:01:00,041 --> 00:01:02,291
ghost nets, what they are, how do we, why
37
00:01:02,291 --> 00:01:03,416
they keep happening? Why
38
00:01:03,416 --> 00:01:04,333
do we keep seeing them?
39
00:01:04,708 --> 00:01:06,416
What's being done to clean them up and so
40
00:01:06,416 --> 00:01:07,083
forth. And we're going to
41
00:01:07,083 --> 00:01:08,416
talk about that on today's
42
00:01:08,416 --> 00:01:10,041
episode of the how to protect the ocean
43
00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:10,833
podcast, because this is
44
00:01:10,833 --> 00:01:12,708
where you find your weekday ocean
45
00:01:12,708 --> 00:01:16,625
news Monday to Friday on oceans. And this
46
00:01:16,625 --> 00:01:17,625
is your ocean resource. So
47
00:01:17,625 --> 00:01:18,916
this is what I want to do for
48
00:01:18,916 --> 00:01:21,125
you is be your ocean resource. So if you
49
00:01:21,125 --> 00:01:22,333
want me to get that, or
50
00:01:22,333 --> 00:01:23,375
you want me to provide that,
51
00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:25,916
you can go to your favorite podcast app
52
00:01:25,916 --> 00:01:26,625
that you're listening this on
53
00:01:26,625 --> 00:01:27,375
and say, Hey, you know what,
54
00:01:27,375 --> 00:01:28,791
I'm going to follow this, just click that
55
00:01:28,791 --> 00:01:30,208
button, don't tap it, click
56
00:01:30,208 --> 00:01:32,500
it, whatever you do. And I
57
00:01:32,500 --> 00:01:36,125
will be in your feed Monday to Friday. So
58
00:01:36,125 --> 00:01:36,833
you can take a look at that,
59
00:01:36,833 --> 00:01:37,750
or you can take a listen to
60
00:01:37,750 --> 00:01:39,791
that. So that's always fun. So follow
61
00:01:39,791 --> 00:01:40,833
that. And of course, if you want to
62
00:01:40,833 --> 00:01:41,708
support the podcast,
63
00:01:41,708 --> 00:01:43,500
if you feel the need to support all the
64
00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:44,166
stuff we do, we do the
65
00:01:44,166 --> 00:01:45,541
podcast, we do YouTube, I'm going
66
00:01:45,541 --> 00:01:47,125
to be starting doing ocean decoded live
67
00:01:47,125 --> 00:01:49,458
Monday to Fridays. I'm also
68
00:01:49,458 --> 00:01:51,500
going to be I do things on
69
00:01:51,541 --> 00:01:53,750
Tik TOK and Instagram and Facebook and so
70
00:01:53,750 --> 00:01:55,208
forth. And so if you enjoy
71
00:01:55,208 --> 00:01:56,416
that and you want to support
72
00:01:56,416 --> 00:01:58,333
me, you can go to speak up for blue.com
73
00:01:58,333 --> 00:02:00,375
forward slash Patreon that
74
00:02:00,375 --> 00:02:02,500
speak up for blue.com forward
75
00:02:02,958 --> 00:02:05,958
slash Patreon. Now I want to talk about
76
00:02:05,958 --> 00:02:07,916
ghost nets because ghost
77
00:02:07,916 --> 00:02:08,708
nets are really interesting.
78
00:02:08,708 --> 00:02:09,916
If you don't know what ghost nets are,
79
00:02:09,916 --> 00:02:12,791
essentially they are nets that have been
80
00:02:12,791 --> 00:02:14,500
lost at sea. So these
81
00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:17,000
are fishing nets that have been used and
82
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,500
maybe lost because of bad
83
00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:19,583
weather, or maybe they're
84
00:02:19,583 --> 00:02:21,666
discarded over the boat, but they've
85
00:02:21,666 --> 00:02:23,125
essentially been lost. And what they do
86
00:02:23,125 --> 00:02:24,291
is these, these large
87
00:02:24,333 --> 00:02:27,416
nets are found all over the world in the
88
00:02:27,416 --> 00:02:28,541
oceans, whether it's in the
89
00:02:28,541 --> 00:02:29,750
deep sea, whether it's in the
90
00:02:29,750 --> 00:02:31,333
floating on the top or whether it's in
91
00:02:31,333 --> 00:02:32,541
the water column, and they
92
00:02:32,541 --> 00:02:34,916
continue to catch fish, marine
93
00:02:34,916 --> 00:02:37,875
mammals, sea turtles, other fish like
94
00:02:37,875 --> 00:02:41,041
sharks and so forth. And they die, they
95
00:02:41,041 --> 00:02:41,875
can't, they can't get
96
00:02:41,875 --> 00:02:43,250
out of it and they end up dying, but
97
00:02:43,250 --> 00:02:45,208
nobody's fishing them because
98
00:02:45,208 --> 00:02:46,208
it's just, it's a net that's
99
00:02:46,250 --> 00:02:48,583
just floating. It's a ghost net. And the
100
00:02:48,583 --> 00:02:50,416
scientific term actually is abandoned,
101
00:02:50,791 --> 00:02:52,583
lost or otherwise discarded
102
00:02:52,583 --> 00:02:55,833
fishing gear known as ALDFG.
103
00:02:55,916 --> 00:02:57,541
It's a huge acronym. It doesn't really
104
00:02:57,541 --> 00:02:59,583
sound like anything really important, but
105
00:02:59,583 --> 00:03:00,916
it's something that's, that's really
106
00:03:00,916 --> 00:03:02,541
important. It's defined as
107
00:03:03,208 --> 00:03:05,458
gear that continues to catch or kill
108
00:03:05,458 --> 00:03:08,250
marine life with no one checking or
109
00:03:08,250 --> 00:03:10,458
retrieving it. And it's a process called
110
00:03:10,458 --> 00:03:11,791
ghost fishing. So
111
00:03:11,791 --> 00:03:13,208
ghost nets, ghost fishing,
112
00:03:13,375 --> 00:03:15,416
go hand in hand. And it's recognized in
113
00:03:15,416 --> 00:03:19,083
the peer review literature as a major and
114
00:03:19,083 --> 00:03:20,708
growing contributor to marine plastic
115
00:03:20,708 --> 00:03:23,083
pollution distinct from other litter
116
00:03:23,083 --> 00:03:24,708
because it is specifically designed to
117
00:03:24,708 --> 00:03:26,458
catch and hold living things.
118
00:03:27,083 --> 00:03:29,666
Now, a 2023 deep sea survey around the
119
00:03:29,666 --> 00:03:33,000
Azores near Portugal or in Portugal used
120
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,750
351 dives and 15 years of seafloor
121
00:03:36,750 --> 00:03:39,458
footage from 2006 to 2020
122
00:03:39,458 --> 00:03:41,666
and found an average of roughly
123
00:03:41,708 --> 00:03:47,666
597 items of ghost nets related gear per
124
00:03:47,666 --> 00:03:50,791
square kilometer on the seafloor. That's
125
00:03:50,791 --> 00:03:53,500
per square kilometer. It shows that it
126
00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:54,541
isn't just the surface
127
00:03:54,541 --> 00:03:55,625
or a coastal problem.
128
00:03:55,916 --> 00:03:58,125
It reaches the deep sea as well. So
129
00:03:58,125 --> 00:03:59,500
that's obviously something that we don't
130
00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:01,625
like to see, but this is something that
131
00:04:01,625 --> 00:04:04,250
we need to dive into. So why does ghost
132
00:04:04,250 --> 00:04:05,666
net really matter other
133
00:04:05,666 --> 00:04:06,666
than just catching fish?
134
00:04:06,958 --> 00:04:09,083
Well, a study using social media records
135
00:04:09,083 --> 00:04:12,041
from 2012 to 2023 documented 144
136
00:04:12,041 --> 00:04:16,458
individual animals across 35 species, 13
137
00:04:16,458 --> 00:04:18,041
of them were actually endangered or
138
00:04:18,041 --> 00:04:20,500
vulnerable were entangled in derelict
139
00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:22,291
gear in the Indian
140
00:04:22,291 --> 00:04:23,458
coastal and freshwater systems.
141
00:04:23,666 --> 00:04:26,583
So that's just one study. Now we know
142
00:04:26,583 --> 00:04:28,916
with the North Atlantic right whale, we
143
00:04:28,916 --> 00:04:30,958
see entanglements all the time. Sometimes
144
00:04:30,958 --> 00:04:32,958
we don't see those entanglements and you
145
00:04:32,958 --> 00:04:34,166
know, the whales will wash up or
146
00:04:34,166 --> 00:04:34,916
sometimes we don't see them
147
00:04:34,916 --> 00:04:35,666
at all, but they're entangled.
148
00:04:35,666 --> 00:04:38,333
And what happens is the nets get caught
149
00:04:38,333 --> 00:04:40,916
or the ropes get the lines get caught on
150
00:04:40,916 --> 00:04:43,208
their pectoral fins. And as they continue
151
00:04:43,208 --> 00:04:45,208
to swim, the lines dig into their
152
00:04:45,208 --> 00:04:47,750
pectoral fins and it continues to make a
153
00:04:47,750 --> 00:04:50,083
mark. It starts to bleed. It gets
154
00:04:50,083 --> 00:04:52,500
infected and eventually the animal can
155
00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:55,541
die. It can also be see seals and sea
156
00:04:55,541 --> 00:04:57,208
lines that like the nets around their
157
00:04:57,208 --> 00:04:58,000
neck. It can cause
158
00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,666
asphyxiation, strangle them.
159
00:04:59,708 --> 00:05:02,375
It could also cause a lot of problems
160
00:05:02,375 --> 00:05:04,541
trying to feed or anything like that.
161
00:05:04,916 --> 00:05:07,541
There are people who roam beaches to try
162
00:05:07,541 --> 00:05:10,500
and free sea lions and seals with these
163
00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:12,041
nets around their neck. And unfortunately
164
00:05:12,041 --> 00:05:13,666
it happens to too many people.
165
00:05:13,708 --> 00:05:15,333
And of course sea turtle hatchling
166
00:05:15,333 --> 00:05:17,708
mortality has been directly linked to
167
00:05:17,708 --> 00:05:20,333
derelict nets and synthetic rope
168
00:05:20,333 --> 00:05:23,333
entanglement in recent fishing in recent
169
00:05:23,333 --> 00:05:26,041
field research with over 200 dead
170
00:05:26,041 --> 00:05:26,750
hatchlings recorded
171
00:05:26,750 --> 00:05:29,000
primarily trapped in the gear.
172
00:05:29,416 --> 00:05:31,916
And that was a study in 2025. Now, of
173
00:05:31,916 --> 00:05:33,166
course, I talked a little bit about deep
174
00:05:33,166 --> 00:05:35,291
sea impacts, but researchers have found
175
00:05:35,291 --> 00:05:39,208
that ALDFG entangled in cold water coral
176
00:05:39,208 --> 00:05:41,375
colonies across multiple regions,
177
00:05:41,583 --> 00:05:42,666
including the northwestern Mediterranean.
178
00:05:42,708 --> 00:05:45,916
The Lingeran Sea, England's Atlantic
179
00:05:45,916 --> 00:05:49,208
Coast and the Azores showing is this is a
180
00:05:49,208 --> 00:05:52,375
consistent cross sectional pattern rather
181
00:05:52,375 --> 00:05:53,666
than an isolated finding.
182
00:05:54,291 --> 00:05:56,000
So this is something that's happening
183
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,916
more and more in a related study
184
00:05:57,916 --> 00:06:00,458
specifically examined how abandoned ghost
185
00:06:00,458 --> 00:06:02,416
neck gear becomes incorporated into
186
00:06:02,416 --> 00:06:04,208
structural growth of the coral species.
187
00:06:04,750 --> 00:06:08,333
Dendrophilia, Philia, Dendrophilia ramia
188
00:06:08,333 --> 00:06:10,875
along Portugal's Atlantic Coast,
189
00:06:11,166 --> 00:06:11,666
illustrating how litter flies and the other.
190
00:06:11,666 --> 00:06:14,333
And how litter physically integrates into
191
00:06:14,333 --> 00:06:16,625
living restructures over time. Now, one
192
00:06:16,625 --> 00:06:18,583
of the interesting stories of like diving
193
00:06:18,583 --> 00:06:20,666
stories that I have is I remember diving
194
00:06:20,666 --> 00:06:22,583
off the coast of the
195
00:06:22,583 --> 00:06:24,208
Cayman Islands, Big Cayman.
196
00:06:24,625 --> 00:06:26,708
And I was diving with some older people
197
00:06:26,708 --> 00:06:28,833
like in their 50s and 60s. They have a
198
00:06:28,833 --> 00:06:29,958
lot more experience than I do. They were
199
00:06:29,958 --> 00:06:30,666
in rebreathers and stuff.
200
00:06:30,666 --> 00:06:33,125
And we were doing a dive start off at 100
201
00:06:33,125 --> 00:06:34,833
feet. That was our deepest depth. Then we
202
00:06:34,833 --> 00:06:36,750
started to kind of slowly climb up on a
203
00:06:36,750 --> 00:06:39,583
reef about 60 days, 70 feet body amount
204
00:06:39,583 --> 00:06:41,750
and kind of hanging out there.
205
00:06:41,750 --> 00:06:43,833
And one of the guys was a diver and
206
00:06:43,833 --> 00:06:46,125
obviously and he was doing something
207
00:06:46,125 --> 00:06:48,000
around a coral reef and I was like, Oh,
208
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:48,666
what's he doing? So I kind of came around to watch.
209
00:06:48,666 --> 00:06:51,416
He had a knife out and he was actually
210
00:06:51,416 --> 00:06:54,458
taking off some fishing net gear that had
211
00:06:54,458 --> 00:06:56,291
been lost. So, you know, these ghost nets
212
00:06:56,291 --> 00:06:58,250
and there were some species in there like
213
00:06:58,250 --> 00:07:00,125
some little shrimp and some nematodes and
214
00:07:00,125 --> 00:07:01,416
some fish and stuff like that.
215
00:07:01,416 --> 00:07:03,666
So he was actually cutting them off. And
216
00:07:03,666 --> 00:07:05,000
what was interesting about it is like
217
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,750
during that time, I'm saying you got a
218
00:07:06,750 --> 00:07:08,041
picture as both scuba diving.
219
00:07:08,041 --> 00:07:09,875
He's kind of floating above the reef. I'm
220
00:07:09,875 --> 00:07:11,125
floating above the reef, probably about
221
00:07:11,125 --> 00:07:12,916
two feet above him. And we're just kind
222
00:07:12,916 --> 00:07:13,666
of maybe a little bit more in line than that.
223
00:07:13,666 --> 00:07:16,041
Maybe it wasn't two feet and where
224
00:07:16,041 --> 00:07:17,541
there's a bit of a space in between us.
225
00:07:17,541 --> 00:07:19,708
And as we're watch as I'm watching this
226
00:07:19,708 --> 00:07:22,458
guy take the ghost net gear off this
227
00:07:22,458 --> 00:07:23,458
loggerhead sea turtle
228
00:07:23,458 --> 00:07:25,000
comes right over top of us.
229
00:07:25,375 --> 00:07:27,125
And he just kind of peaks his head. He or
230
00:07:27,125 --> 00:07:29,833
she, I don't remember peaks head and he
231
00:07:29,833 --> 00:07:31,375
starts looking at us and he looks at both
232
00:07:31,375 --> 00:07:32,125
of us and kind of
233
00:07:32,125 --> 00:07:34,083
feels like he gave a nod.
234
00:07:34,083 --> 00:07:35,875
I'm probably exaggerating a little bit,
235
00:07:35,875 --> 00:07:37,416
but it feels like he gave a nod and just
236
00:07:37,416 --> 00:07:38,750
kind of came out almost like a, Hey,
237
00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:39,375
thanks a lot for
238
00:07:39,375 --> 00:07:40,458
taking this away from us.
239
00:07:40,916 --> 00:07:42,541
But this is your stuff anyway. So take it
240
00:07:42,541 --> 00:07:44,250
back to the surface and keep it there,
241
00:07:44,250 --> 00:07:45,875
which is where we want to do. We don't,
242
00:07:45,875 --> 00:07:48,416
we want to keep it back at the surface
243
00:07:48,416 --> 00:07:50,083
because we don't want that to keep coming
244
00:07:50,083 --> 00:07:53,083
out onto the bottom, right?
245
00:07:53,083 --> 00:07:54,458
Because that's something that, you know,
246
00:07:54,458 --> 00:07:57,416
we just don't want to do. Now, one of the
247
00:07:57,416 --> 00:07:59,375
things that's interesting beyond like
248
00:07:59,375 --> 00:08:01,625
looking at seeing ghost nets in the
249
00:08:01,625 --> 00:08:02,625
waters, why it keeps happening.
250
00:08:02,708 --> 00:08:05,791
So some of the challenges that have been
251
00:08:05,791 --> 00:08:07,458
identified in some of the research that I
252
00:08:07,458 --> 00:08:10,291
looked up in the literature. So there's
253
00:08:10,291 --> 00:08:12,250
also there's an economic cost to the
254
00:08:12,250 --> 00:08:13,666
fishing industry itself, right? Because
255
00:08:13,666 --> 00:08:15,833
you lose the nets. It's
256
00:08:15,833 --> 00:08:17,666
something that's a big problem.
257
00:08:18,083 --> 00:08:20,666
A 2023 study modeling the English channel
258
00:08:20,666 --> 00:08:23,208
static gear fishery found real economic
259
00:08:23,208 --> 00:08:25,500
costs tied to gear loss and ghost fishing
260
00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:27,791
and found that current biodegradable gear
261
00:08:27,791 --> 00:08:29,916
designs need improvement before
262
00:08:29,916 --> 00:08:32,250
meaningfully reducing the
263
00:08:32,250 --> 00:08:34,500
costs of these types of gear.
264
00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:36,208
So there needs to be more research in the
265
00:08:36,208 --> 00:08:38,291
biodegradable gear in case it does get
266
00:08:38,291 --> 00:08:39,750
lost. It could just biodegrade. It could
267
00:08:39,750 --> 00:08:41,541
just basically disintegrate into the
268
00:08:41,541 --> 00:08:43,625
ocean without having problems. Obviously,
269
00:08:43,625 --> 00:08:44,708
we're not there yet and
270
00:08:44,708 --> 00:08:45,666
there still needs to be done.
271
00:08:45,708 --> 00:08:48,625
But look, about 10 years ago when I was
272
00:08:48,625 --> 00:08:50,500
at the International Marine Conservation
273
00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:53,375
Congress, there was a hackathon that was
274
00:08:53,375 --> 00:08:56,083
happening in Malaysia. And I remember it
275
00:08:56,083 --> 00:08:57,833
was a really cool thing. They had all
276
00:08:57,833 --> 00:08:59,041
these engineers, all these people who
277
00:08:59,041 --> 00:09:00,916
like to do these hackathons. And then we
278
00:09:00,916 --> 00:09:02,708
had a presentation. There were five ocean
279
00:09:02,708 --> 00:09:04,291
issues that we were dealing with. One of
280
00:09:04,291 --> 00:09:07,125
them was crab and lobster fishing and all
281
00:09:07,125 --> 00:09:08,708
that kind of coming up with a fishing
282
00:09:08,708 --> 00:09:10,666
gear that would reduce entanglement.
283
00:09:10,708 --> 00:09:13,500
And one of the ideas was to have a
284
00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:17,750
ropeless or a lineless lobster or crab
285
00:09:17,750 --> 00:09:21,125
trap. And so what was basically the idea
286
00:09:21,125 --> 00:09:22,708
that was done in the prototype that was
287
00:09:22,708 --> 00:09:24,166
done that actually won the competition,
288
00:09:24,666 --> 00:09:25,666
even though there's other
289
00:09:25,666 --> 00:09:26,541
issues that they covered.
290
00:09:27,250 --> 00:09:29,375
They actually had this ropeless one where
291
00:09:29,375 --> 00:09:31,166
you'd have balloons that would pop up.
292
00:09:31,625 --> 00:09:33,416
And when you press the button as you want
293
00:09:33,416 --> 00:09:35,083
to retrieve your gear and it
294
00:09:35,083 --> 00:09:36,333
would float to the surface.
295
00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:39,166
Now, when that first came out, people
296
00:09:39,166 --> 00:09:40,416
were like, "This isn't going to work.
297
00:09:40,416 --> 00:09:41,333
There's going to be a lot of problems.
298
00:09:41,333 --> 00:09:42,666
The ocean is pretty harsh. How are we
299
00:09:42,666 --> 00:09:43,916
going to find it?" All this kind of
300
00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:45,708
stuff. And we still need to put buoys to
301
00:09:45,708 --> 00:09:47,583
make sure we can find it and GPS tracks
302
00:09:47,583 --> 00:09:48,375
and everything like that.
303
00:09:48,500 --> 00:09:49,708
And there were a lot of problems when
304
00:09:49,708 --> 00:09:51,166
they tried it out. I remember talking to
305
00:09:51,166 --> 00:09:52,750
some fishers and they were saying, "Yeah,
306
00:09:52,750 --> 00:09:55,000
it's really expensive. We don't really
307
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,166
know if it's going to be working." And
308
00:09:57,166 --> 00:09:58,250
some of the trials haven't
309
00:09:58,250 --> 00:09:59,666
really shown that it worked.
310
00:09:59,708 --> 00:10:01,916
But it gets better and better. The
311
00:10:01,916 --> 00:10:03,458
technology gets better and better as more
312
00:10:03,458 --> 00:10:05,416
experimentation happens and as people are
313
00:10:05,416 --> 00:10:07,833
trying it out. And now there's a lot of
314
00:10:07,833 --> 00:10:10,166
fisheries in Canada on the east coast
315
00:10:10,166 --> 00:10:12,833
that are experimenting with this and see
316
00:10:12,833 --> 00:10:15,000
how much retrieval can
317
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,333
happen and all that kind of stuff.
318
00:10:16,333 --> 00:10:17,958
And the gear is getting cheaper and
319
00:10:17,958 --> 00:10:19,166
cheaper. So we're starting to see some
320
00:10:19,166 --> 00:10:21,750
headway. So, you know, with biodegradable
321
00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:24,916
nets, we might see some more headway as
322
00:10:24,916 --> 00:10:25,666
we move into the future.
323
00:10:25,708 --> 00:10:28,625
So I think it's good, but it isn't a
324
00:10:28,625 --> 00:10:31,666
simple fix yet. A 2025 laboratory
325
00:10:31,666 --> 00:10:34,375
comparison of biodegradable copolyester
326
00:10:34,375 --> 00:10:36,750
microfilaments against traditional
327
00:10:36,750 --> 00:10:40,833
polyamide monofilaments tested degrading
328
00:10:40,833 --> 00:10:42,250
degradation rates
329
00:10:42,250 --> 00:10:43,666
under accelerated aging.
330
00:10:43,666 --> 00:10:46,541
But part of an active research effort to
331
00:10:46,541 --> 00:10:48,291
find materials that break down fast
332
00:10:48,291 --> 00:10:50,041
enough to stop ghost fishing, but it
333
00:10:50,041 --> 00:10:52,708
didn't, but hold up long
334
00:10:52,708 --> 00:10:54,833
enough to still catch the fish.
335
00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:56,583
But there still needs to be
336
00:10:56,583 --> 00:10:58,166
experimentation on that one. And in
337
00:10:58,166 --> 00:11:00,291
economic feasibility research cited in
338
00:11:00,291 --> 00:11:02,916
2025, synthesis found biodegradable gear
339
00:11:02,916 --> 00:11:06,000
runs about 30 to 50% more expensive than
340
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,666
conventional gear on average.
341
00:11:07,708 --> 00:11:11,000
And a major barrier for small scale
342
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,458
fishing operations on tight margins,
343
00:11:13,791 --> 00:11:14,458
particularly in low
344
00:11:14,458 --> 00:11:16,166
income fishing communities.
345
00:11:16,625 --> 00:11:20,083
In 2025, experimental study of Norwegian
346
00:11:20,083 --> 00:11:22,458
fishers found willingness to adopt
347
00:11:22,458 --> 00:11:25,250
biodegradable gear is highly conditional.
348
00:11:25,833 --> 00:11:28,083
Right. The fishers will switch if catch
349
00:11:28,083 --> 00:11:30,000
efficiencies matches conventional gear.
350
00:11:30,375 --> 00:11:33,500
That makes sense. But as relative
351
00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:35,583
efficiency drops, adoption becomes
352
00:11:35,583 --> 00:11:38,083
contingent on whether the other fishers
353
00:11:38,083 --> 00:11:40,208
adopted too. So it's a little bit of a
354
00:11:40,208 --> 00:11:41,416
peer pressure thing.
355
00:11:41,833 --> 00:11:44,125
Meaning individual incentives are likely
356
00:11:44,125 --> 00:11:47,750
won't alone won't likely drive the shift.
357
00:11:48,208 --> 00:11:49,500
So that's something that's interesting.
358
00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:50,500
And of course, local knowledge and
359
00:11:50,500 --> 00:11:52,500
enforcement gaps are really important. A
360
00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:55,291
2026 study in Cameron small scale fishing
361
00:11:55,291 --> 00:11:58,833
marine fisheries used local ecological
362
00:11:58,833 --> 00:12:00,250
knowledge from fishers and state
363
00:12:00,250 --> 00:12:02,000
professionals and state officials to
364
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,791
examine why gear gets lost, abandoned or
365
00:12:04,791 --> 00:12:07,333
discarded and found that weak enforcement
366
00:12:07,333 --> 00:12:09,666
of gear registration and marking policies
367
00:12:09,875 --> 00:12:12,000
means fishers face little to no
368
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,125
consequences for
369
00:12:13,125 --> 00:12:15,041
failing to report lost gear.
370
00:12:15,916 --> 00:12:16,916
So there's a lot of, you know, still a
371
00:12:16,916 --> 00:12:17,750
lot of problems with some of the
372
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:19,083
solutions that are out there, but
373
00:12:19,083 --> 00:12:20,875
something that's working solutions that
374
00:12:20,875 --> 00:12:22,833
are being tested within that
375
00:12:22,833 --> 00:12:23,666
I looked up in the literature.
376
00:12:23,666 --> 00:12:26,250
So there's systematic evidence for
377
00:12:26,250 --> 00:12:28,333
recycling. So 2026 systematic literature
378
00:12:28,333 --> 00:12:30,750
review following Prisma methodology,
379
00:12:31,041 --> 00:12:33,166
synthesized at 17 peer reviewed studies
380
00:12:33,166 --> 00:12:37,541
from 2015 to 2025 across marine ecology
381
00:12:37,541 --> 00:12:39,625
materials and engineering and circular
382
00:12:39,625 --> 00:12:41,666
economy research evaluating both
383
00:12:41,666 --> 00:12:44,416
ecological impacts of ghost nets and the
384
00:12:44,416 --> 00:12:46,750
technical feasibility of recycling
385
00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:49,416
recovered fishing gear polymers into new
386
00:12:49,416 --> 00:12:52,666
products using Hawaii as a case model.
387
00:12:52,708 --> 00:12:54,958
So there have been some successes around
388
00:12:54,958 --> 00:12:56,583
there. And of course, researchers from
389
00:12:56,583 --> 00:12:58,083
British Columbia, Salish Sea documents
390
00:12:58,083 --> 00:13:00,625
active derelict net removal programs
391
00:13:00,625 --> 00:13:03,208
designed specifically around safeguarding
392
00:13:03,208 --> 00:13:05,416
habitat and reducing mortality across
393
00:13:05,416 --> 00:13:08,125
multiple species cited a model approach
394
00:13:08,125 --> 00:13:10,625
within deep sea ghost net literature.
395
00:13:10,708 --> 00:13:12,083
So that's nice to see that there are some
396
00:13:12,083 --> 00:13:13,875
things that are working out. And of
397
00:13:13,875 --> 00:13:15,041
course, there's still material science
398
00:13:15,041 --> 00:13:17,000
progress is happening ongoing degradation
399
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,291
testing of specific polymers represents
400
00:13:21,291 --> 00:13:23,583
the live edge of material research aimed
401
00:13:23,583 --> 00:13:25,208
at gear that ghost net
402
00:13:25,208 --> 00:13:27,750
fish fishes for months.
403
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,541
So that's not century. So that's good.
404
00:13:29,541 --> 00:13:31,041
We're starting to see a reduction in that
405
00:13:31,041 --> 00:13:33,458
by like 100 years, which is great to see.
406
00:13:33,916 --> 00:13:36,166
So look, the peer reviewed literature
407
00:13:36,166 --> 00:13:38,416
that we looked up for this study is for
408
00:13:38,416 --> 00:13:39,666
this episode is consistent.
409
00:13:39,833 --> 00:13:44,250
Ghost nets is a measurable quantifiable
410
00:13:44,250 --> 00:13:46,333
problem from the sea surface to the deep
411
00:13:46,333 --> 00:13:48,416
sea. We definitely know that it's
412
00:13:48,416 --> 00:13:50,166
definitely a problem. And the fixes on
413
00:13:50,166 --> 00:13:52,208
the table like biodegradable materials or
414
00:13:52,208 --> 00:13:54,583
recycling better enforcement are all
415
00:13:54,583 --> 00:13:57,208
real, but each comes with its own trade
416
00:13:57,208 --> 00:13:58,375
off that scientists are
417
00:13:58,375 --> 00:13:59,666
actively working through.
418
00:13:59,666 --> 00:14:02,458
And we need more progress. We need more
419
00:14:02,458 --> 00:14:04,666
research on this. We need more pilot
420
00:14:04,666 --> 00:14:06,625
studies on this to ensure that these
421
00:14:06,625 --> 00:14:09,541
ghost nets, one can not affect other
422
00:14:09,541 --> 00:14:11,791
fishes or marine mammals or sea turtles
423
00:14:11,791 --> 00:14:13,000
or sea birds. I always
424
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,458
forget seabirds in that last one.
425
00:14:15,041 --> 00:14:17,583
But also like to be able to have more
426
00:14:17,583 --> 00:14:20,791
efficiency and less expand, make sure
427
00:14:20,791 --> 00:14:22,208
they're less expensive so that they'll be
428
00:14:22,208 --> 00:14:24,625
adopted by fishers. A lot of times
429
00:14:24,625 --> 00:14:25,958
fishers who use these
430
00:14:25,958 --> 00:14:26,666
types of nets are small scale.
431
00:14:26,666 --> 00:14:30,500
They don't have a big budget. Some of the
432
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:32,708
major corporations do have those big
433
00:14:32,708 --> 00:14:34,416
budgets so they could be using this type
434
00:14:34,416 --> 00:14:36,666
of stuff too. But a lot of the fishers
435
00:14:36,666 --> 00:14:38,000
don't have it and we need to make sure we
436
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,125
can get those in those hands.
437
00:14:39,541 --> 00:14:43,000
So lots of research, more funding and
438
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,208
more adoption is needed. And there's a
439
00:14:45,208 --> 00:14:46,625
lot of stuff that we talked about today.
440
00:14:46,625 --> 00:14:47,625
And I would love to hear from you what
441
00:14:47,625 --> 00:14:50,000
you think is needed when we look at
442
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,666
managing ghost nets and making sure.
443
00:14:51,708 --> 00:14:54,041
And I know a lot of people will say, Hey,
444
00:14:54,041 --> 00:14:55,083
you know what? We just got to stop
445
00:14:55,083 --> 00:14:56,625
fishing and reduce fishing in certain
446
00:14:56,625 --> 00:14:57,916
situations that's going to work in other
447
00:14:57,916 --> 00:14:59,208
situations. It's not going to work
448
00:14:59,208 --> 00:15:01,083
because people need to fish. They need to
449
00:15:01,083 --> 00:15:02,375
their protein source. They need to make
450
00:15:02,375 --> 00:15:04,083
money for their families. It's not going
451
00:15:04,083 --> 00:15:05,750
away anytime soon. There are certain
452
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:07,708
cases that yet can be reduced to nothing.
453
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,375
But there's other situations where
454
00:15:09,375 --> 00:15:11,166
fishing is just always going to happen.
455
00:15:11,166 --> 00:15:12,958
And we need to make sure that we can
456
00:15:12,958 --> 00:15:15,666
adapt to that as quickly as possible.
457
00:15:15,708 --> 00:15:17,625
That's it for today's episode. I'd love
458
00:15:17,625 --> 00:15:19,291
to hear your thoughts. You can hit me up
459
00:15:19,291 --> 00:15:22,083
on Instagram, TikTok, wherever you want
460
00:15:22,083 --> 00:15:24,041
to DM me. You'd also go to speak up for
461
00:15:24,041 --> 00:15:26,625
blue.com to find out more about the
462
00:15:26,625 --> 00:15:28,791
podcast that we have beyond Jaws and how
463
00:15:28,791 --> 00:15:30,625
to protect the ocean. This one, you can
464
00:15:30,625 --> 00:15:32,083
also follow those when you go to the
465
00:15:32,083 --> 00:15:33,166
website. And of course, if you want to
466
00:15:33,166 --> 00:15:34,583
support me, you can go to speak up for
467
00:15:34,583 --> 00:15:37,291
blue.com forward slash Patreon can
468
00:15:37,291 --> 00:15:39,000
support the stuff that I create on this
469
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,125
podcast on YouTube as well as Instagram,
470
00:15:42,125 --> 00:15:43,791
TikTok and Facebook and
471
00:15:43,791 --> 00:15:44,666
all the socials on LinkedIn.
472
00:15:44,708 --> 00:15:46,833
We do a lot of work here to make sure
473
00:15:46,833 --> 00:15:48,583
that we provide you with the resource for
474
00:15:48,583 --> 00:15:50,666
oceans. If you like that kind of stuff,
475
00:15:50,666 --> 00:15:52,666
support me speak up for blue.com forward
476
00:15:52,666 --> 00:15:55,125
slash Patreon. I would really appreciate
477
00:15:55,125 --> 00:15:57,166
your support. I want to thank you so much
478
00:15:57,166 --> 00:15:58,916
for joining me on today's episode of the
479
00:15:58,916 --> 00:16:00,541
how to protect the ocean podcast. I'm
480
00:16:00,541 --> 00:16:01,916
your host, Angelo, and have a great day.
481
00:16:01,916 --> 00:16:02,416
We'll talk to you next
482
00:16:02,416 --> 00:16:03,666
time and happy conservation.
