A New PBS Documentary Wants You to Care About Coral. Meet the Man Behind It.

1
00:00:00,049 --> 00:00:03,129
Imagine you're a dive shop
owner, and you live in the Keys,

2
00:00:03,149 --> 00:00:04,210
in the Florida Keys, right?

3
00:00:04,219 --> 00:00:05,289
Beautiful place.

4
00:00:05,299 --> 00:00:11,026
It's known for the coral reef
diversity, wall-to-wall corals back

5
00:00:11,026 --> 00:00:14,966
in the 80s, 70s, 80s, 90s, even 2000s.

6
00:00:15,423 --> 00:00:18,063
And then you start to
notice some degradation.

7
00:00:18,073 --> 00:00:19,723
You start to notice some patches.

8
00:00:20,036 --> 00:00:22,896
There's disease outbreaks
that hit the reefs hard.

9
00:00:23,246 --> 00:00:28,996
Climate change is affecting it, increased
sea surface temperatures, heat waves.

10
00:00:29,186 --> 00:00:31,936
You know, you're getting the
highest temperatures at 100 degrees

11
00:00:31,936 --> 00:00:33,426
Fahrenheit we've ever recorded.

12
00:00:33,636 --> 00:00:36,796
And you start to see the reef go down
and down to it, to the point where you

13
00:00:36,826 --> 00:00:41,449
couldn't see patches before, and then all
of a sudden now it's just a huge patch.

14
00:00:41,559 --> 00:00:43,430
It's like patches of
coral reef everywhere.

15
00:00:43,926 --> 00:00:46,036
You have a choice to make
as a dive shop owner.

16
00:00:46,336 --> 00:00:49,906
You can continue on, and you can
try and do something, or you can

17
00:00:49,906 --> 00:00:50,966
just say, "Hey, you know what?

18
00:00:51,006 --> 00:00:52,396
Put my arms up like I tried.

19
00:00:52,646 --> 00:00:54,396
I did what I did, but I have a business.

20
00:00:54,396 --> 00:00:55,046
I have a life too.

21
00:00:55,046 --> 00:00:57,786
I have a family I have to worry
about, and I need to support.

22
00:00:57,846 --> 00:01:01,076
And so I'm gonna just sell the business
and get out while I can." Not for

23
00:01:01,076 --> 00:01:05,756
my guest today, Michael Goldberg,
who is the co-founder of ICARE.

24
00:01:05,863 --> 00:01:11,099
It's ICARE for Corals, is a marketer,
a businessman, who teamed up with

25
00:01:11,139 --> 00:01:14,669
a coral reef scientist to help
rebuild the coral reefs through reef

26
00:01:15,359 --> 00:01:19,303
restorations, through creating frags,
and replanting them in the wild.

27
00:01:19,483 --> 00:01:21,413
He's been doing this for the
last five and a half years.

28
00:01:21,666 --> 00:01:25,956
So much so that it's caught on so
much so that there is a movie called,

29
00:01:26,023 --> 00:01:30,719
Descent Into The Blue that's coming out
on PBS on September 1st, 2026, where

30
00:01:30,719 --> 00:01:33,569
you can watch where all this came from.

31
00:01:33,649 --> 00:01:37,749
How Mike and how Kylie, which is
his co-founder, Kylie Smith, Dr.

32
00:01:37,749 --> 00:01:41,063
Kylie Smith, met, and how they
started to ask each other questions.

33
00:01:41,063 --> 00:01:44,223
Like, Mike was asking her questions about
coral reef restoration and how we're gonna

34
00:01:44,223 --> 00:01:47,613
fix the corals and everything, and how
that company formed, but also what it

35
00:01:47,613 --> 00:01:51,113
was like beforehand and the problem that
they were facing, and then their solution,

36
00:01:51,113 --> 00:01:52,793
which was about reef restoration.

37
00:01:52,793 --> 00:01:55,173
And the whole point of this, what they
want you to get out of it, is that to

38
00:01:55,173 --> 00:01:58,763
care for the reefs, that there are people
out there who want to do something, not

39
00:01:58,763 --> 00:02:02,200
just for business, but for the fact
that the sake that they care about the

40
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,310
reef, they care about the community,
they care about the culture of Key West.

41
00:02:05,340 --> 00:02:08,990
And I think this is a great story
to tell, and I wanted Mike to

42
00:02:08,990 --> 00:02:10,690
come on the podcast to tell this.

43
00:02:10,830 --> 00:02:13,246
The director, Rory Fielding, of
the film, was supposed to make it.

44
00:02:13,246 --> 00:02:16,136
He unfortunately wasn't able to make
it, but the movie that they're gonna

45
00:02:16,136 --> 00:02:18,416
see on PBS is absolutely phenomenal.

46
00:02:18,586 --> 00:02:21,516
I'm gonna put the link to the trailer,
if I'm allowed, in the show notes so

47
00:02:21,516 --> 00:02:24,689
you can check that out, but also don't
forget to check out the PBS show when

48
00:02:24,689 --> 00:02:26,909
it comes out on September 1st, 2026.

49
00:02:27,043 --> 00:02:29,754
But until then, enjoy this
interview with Mike Goldberg

50
00:02:29,774 --> 00:02:31,024
talking about reef restoration.

51
00:02:31,024 --> 00:02:34,901
We talk not only about his story and
how this all happened, but also, what

52
00:02:34,961 --> 00:02:39,351
needs to happen in the reef restoration
field now, not just the science, but

53
00:02:39,351 --> 00:02:43,087
also the business implementation part
and sort of newfound ways to fund.

54
00:02:43,087 --> 00:02:45,577
Because we know governments these
days, you just never know if they're

55
00:02:45,577 --> 00:02:48,967
gonna fund things or not, and funding
has been cut over the last little bit.

56
00:02:48,967 --> 00:02:51,287
So we're gonna talk about
that all on this episode.

57
00:02:51,287 --> 00:02:52,437
Here's the interview with Mike.

58
00:02:52,527 --> 00:02:53,847
Enjoy, and I'll talk to you after.

59
00:02:54,217 --> 00:02:54,857
Hey, Mike.

60
00:02:54,877 --> 00:02:56,877
Welcome to the How to
Protect the Ocean podcast.

61
00:02:56,927 --> 00:03:00,957
Are you ready to talk about
Descent Into the Blue, the new

62
00:03:01,007 --> 00:03:02,527
movie that's coming out on PBS?

63
00:03:03,267 --> 00:03:05,087
I am so excited about this.

64
00:03:05,257 --> 00:03:09,437
I just found out a few minutes ago
that it was actually airing next week-

65
00:03:10,327 --> 00:03:11,897
on PBS, so I cannot wait.

66
00:03:12,567 --> 00:03:14,297
Oh, it's gonna be, it's
gonna be a lot of fun.

67
00:03:14,297 --> 00:03:15,487
I've seen the trailer.

68
00:03:15,687 --> 00:03:16,897
I've seen the screening.

69
00:03:16,937 --> 00:03:20,787
It looks impeccable in terms
of imagery, the videography.

70
00:03:21,147 --> 00:03:24,437
There's so many different
voices that are speaking about

71
00:03:24,447 --> 00:03:26,497
how important coral reefs are.

72
00:03:26,807 --> 00:03:29,147
And I, I'm looking forward
to discussing all of that.

73
00:03:29,297 --> 00:03:32,441
We're gonna have really interesting
conversation today, not only about Descent

74
00:03:32,461 --> 00:03:35,442
Into the Blue, this movie that's gonna
be airing on PBS that you were a part

75
00:03:35,442 --> 00:03:39,252
of, but also we're gonna have a frank
conversation about coral restoration.

76
00:03:39,472 --> 00:03:40,182
Where it's at.

77
00:03:40,282 --> 00:03:42,132
Cause we see it all the time on Instagram.

78
00:03:42,132 --> 00:03:45,532
We see a lot of different organizations
from all over the world trying to restore

79
00:03:45,532 --> 00:03:48,032
their reefs to what it was at some point.

80
00:03:48,292 --> 00:03:51,352
And there's a lot to learn from that,
and there's a lot of things that we can

81
00:03:51,352 --> 00:03:55,172
progress on, and I think we're gonna talk
all these things, especially from you, who

82
00:03:55,182 --> 00:03:59,592
you've had, you know, a number of years,
you know, the dive industry and coral

83
00:03:59,592 --> 00:04:01,022
restoration and all that kind of stuff.

84
00:04:01,022 --> 00:04:02,355
So, we're gonna have a great conversation.

85
00:04:02,355 --> 00:04:03,125
I'm looking forward to it.

86
00:04:03,125 --> 00:04:05,255
But before we get into all that,
Mike, why don't you just let us

87
00:04:05,255 --> 00:04:06,785
know who you are and what you do?

88
00:04:07,875 --> 00:04:08,785
Yep, no problem.

89
00:04:08,815 --> 00:04:09,755
Yeah, I'm excited as well.

90
00:04:09,795 --> 00:04:11,005
My name is Mike Goldberg.

91
00:04:11,005 --> 00:04:13,935
I am the co-founder of ICARE,
and we're restoration group

92
00:04:13,945 --> 00:04:15,905
based in Islamorada, Florida.

93
00:04:16,215 --> 00:04:20,505
But before I even started that, I
became a dive professional decades ago.

94
00:04:20,515 --> 00:04:22,325
I'm embarrassed to say
how many years ago now.

95
00:04:22,475 --> 00:04:24,725
Uh, 30-some odd years ago.

96
00:04:25,125 --> 00:04:25,435
Yeah.

97
00:04:25,435 --> 00:04:28,325
And, I own a scuba dive
business in the Florida Keys.

98
00:04:28,325 --> 00:04:33,205
I've been diving regularly for
decades, over, well over 10,000 dives.

99
00:04:33,445 --> 00:04:39,729
I had the actual privilege to
see the reefs at their- pristine,

100
00:04:39,739 --> 00:04:41,739
almost impeccable finest.

101
00:04:42,029 --> 00:04:48,359
And seeing what we've seen in the
last, oh, roughly 10 years is, not only

102
00:04:48,369 --> 00:04:53,929
heartbreaking, but it also forced me to do
something, and that's how I.CARE was born.

103
00:04:53,999 --> 00:04:57,049
My co-founder and I just
said, "Okay, that's enough.

104
00:04:57,259 --> 00:04:58,259
We gotta do something.

105
00:04:58,299 --> 00:05:00,626
We can't just sit here and
hope someone else does that.

106
00:05:00,666 --> 00:05:06,106
We need to be the ones to take
up the reins to make a difference

107
00:05:06,256 --> 00:05:09,056
for our community, specifically
here in the Florida Keys."

108
00:05:09,869 --> 00:05:10,229
Yeah.

109
00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,559
I mean, that's, it's an
interesting background too, right?

110
00:05:12,609 --> 00:05:15,719
you know, a lot of the times when we
talk about coral restoration, we have

111
00:05:15,719 --> 00:05:19,459
scientists on and they're looking
at frags and how frags will react

112
00:05:19,469 --> 00:05:20,959
to certain different conditions.

113
00:05:21,139 --> 00:05:23,369
You come from a business
background, marketing background,

114
00:05:23,369 --> 00:05:27,209
finance background, own your own
business, and this is, like, a key.

115
00:05:27,219 --> 00:05:28,859
Like, you're in the
community, in the Keys.

116
00:05:28,859 --> 00:05:31,229
And the Keys from my-- I
never had the opportunity.

117
00:05:31,239 --> 00:05:33,879
From my understanding, it is
a very tight-knit community.

118
00:05:33,889 --> 00:05:35,669
You care about what's around.

119
00:05:35,669 --> 00:05:38,919
It's very ecotourism or
very even tourism-based.

120
00:05:39,149 --> 00:05:41,879
and the water is everything,
to that community.

121
00:05:41,879 --> 00:05:44,699
The reefs are everything,
and there's a history there.

122
00:05:44,699 --> 00:05:48,589
There's a culture there that has
really invested into these reefs.

123
00:05:48,906 --> 00:05:50,819
You said something that's,
that I find really interesting.

124
00:05:50,819 --> 00:05:55,159
The last 10 years is where you've really
seen the degradation of the reefs.

125
00:05:55,469 --> 00:06:00,149
when you first started to notice it, 10
or so years ago, were you thinking, like,

126
00:06:00,149 --> 00:06:03,289
this is the beginning of this, or were
you just thinking, like, this is just

127
00:06:03,289 --> 00:06:04,989
a one-year thing or a two-year thing?

128
00:06:05,509 --> 00:06:05,929
Oh, no.

129
00:06:06,129 --> 00:06:07,289
I knew it was the real deal.

130
00:06:07,379 --> 00:06:12,179
The first bleaching event that
I saw widespread was in the

131
00:06:12,179 --> 00:06:15,829
Eastern Caribbean back in… And
I could be mistaken on the year.

132
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:17,879
We'll call it 2008, roughly.

133
00:06:18,289 --> 00:06:20,129
and that was a shock.

134
00:06:20,489 --> 00:06:21,979
We didn't know what coral bleaching was.

135
00:06:21,989 --> 00:06:22,699
I didn't.

136
00:06:23,309 --> 00:06:24,269
I heard about it.

137
00:06:24,779 --> 00:06:28,039
There were some rumblings of things
happening in the Barrier Reef out

138
00:06:28,039 --> 00:06:31,308
in Australia, but everything we
had experienced up to that point

139
00:06:31,328 --> 00:06:34,698
was just perfection in the Eastern
Caribbean where I was living.

140
00:06:35,208 --> 00:06:41,021
And then, know, about 10 years ago when
we faced SCTLD, you know, stony coral

141
00:06:41,021 --> 00:06:46,441
tissue loss disease, and had already
a bleaching event before that, yeah,

142
00:06:46,441 --> 00:06:50,941
I mean, I, I knew we were in for a
shift that was significant and that

143
00:06:50,951 --> 00:06:52,291
we weren't gonna be able to escape it.

144
00:06:53,081 --> 00:06:56,311
And we were watching, as you know,
and your audience knows, we were just

145
00:06:56,311 --> 00:06:58,861
watching corals die all around us.

146
00:06:59,038 --> 00:07:02,968
As a non-scientist at that point,
I almost threw up my hands.

147
00:07:02,968 --> 00:07:06,178
I mean, I didn't know what
to do, and it was depressing.

148
00:07:06,178 --> 00:07:09,828
And actually, as a business owner, my
wife would tell me, "What are you doing?

149
00:07:09,868 --> 00:07:11,438
The product isn't what it used to be.

150
00:07:11,438 --> 00:07:13,588
You better get out of this
business before it's too late.

151
00:07:13,598 --> 00:07:16,831
You're not gonna have anything
to sell, and we've invested all,

152
00:07:16,871 --> 00:07:17,871
you know, our life into this.

153
00:07:17,871 --> 00:07:21,111
You, you invested your life into
this business and your industry."

154
00:07:22,021 --> 00:07:24,411
And she had a good point, to be fair.

155
00:07:24,581 --> 00:07:28,801
Uh, so, w-you know, what's one guy
that knows nothing about how to change

156
00:07:28,801 --> 00:07:30,651
things, what's one guy gonna do?

157
00:07:31,311 --> 00:07:33,911
10 years ago was really
when it hit home, for sure.

158
00:07:33,921 --> 00:07:34,321
Yeah.

159
00:07:34,545 --> 00:07:36,015
But I'm not the type of person to give up.

160
00:07:36,035 --> 00:07:37,035
That's just not my nature.

161
00:07:37,045 --> 00:07:38,365
So, I had to do something.

162
00:07:38,365 --> 00:07:40,505
But it was quite traumatic
at that time, for sure.

163
00:07:40,525 --> 00:07:41,245
I can imagine.

164
00:07:41,295 --> 00:07:43,815
Well, I mean, especially from a
business owner standpoint, I get it.

165
00:07:43,845 --> 00:07:45,945
Like, you know, just what you said- Mm-hmm
… like what your wife was saying is like,

166
00:07:46,375 --> 00:07:52,485
"What do we do?" Did you see other dive
shops close down or other businesses that

167
00:07:52,485 --> 00:07:56,755
depended on the reef close down 'cause
they saw, like what was gonna happen?

168
00:07:57,381 --> 00:08:04,041
Not necessarily that direct correlation,
but when tourists come and they put their

169
00:08:04,041 --> 00:08:09,301
face in the water in, let's say, 2017,
and they say, "What the hell happened?"

170
00:08:09,921 --> 00:08:15,811
You know that there's forces competing
for their dollars to go skiing or

171
00:08:16,001 --> 00:08:19,121
go do something else, whatever it
is that's on their bucket list.

172
00:08:19,451 --> 00:08:22,151
And when there's other things that are
competing and the diving doesn't give

173
00:08:22,151 --> 00:08:27,715
them the same high that it once did,
well, you're naturally gonna see a loss.

174
00:08:28,115 --> 00:08:29,918
I would say that's more what happened.

175
00:08:30,178 --> 00:08:33,788
And over the years, you know, in the
last 10 to 15 years, we've seen a

176
00:08:33,788 --> 00:08:36,818
consolidation for sure in the dive
industry, no question about it.

177
00:08:37,368 --> 00:08:43,978
There's a variety of forces involved,
but that certainly is a major factor, so.

178
00:08:43,998 --> 00:08:44,368
Yeah.

179
00:08:44,728 --> 00:08:45,528
Yeah, I can imagine.

180
00:08:45,528 --> 00:08:49,191
Now, you did mention that at some
point, you started to say, "Look,

181
00:08:49,221 --> 00:08:52,371
we've gotta do something," Take me
back to that time where you started

182
00:08:52,371 --> 00:08:55,001
to think that, and you started-- Like
you said, you're not gonna give up.

183
00:08:55,061 --> 00:08:55,971
You're gonna help out.

184
00:08:56,311 --> 00:08:57,451
Obviously it's a big problem.

185
00:08:57,461 --> 00:09:00,141
This is not just a local to the Keys.

186
00:09:00,151 --> 00:09:04,521
This is a larger global problem,
which again, you said, you know, you

187
00:09:04,521 --> 00:09:08,221
come from a very different background
where conservation wasn't necessarily,

188
00:09:08,221 --> 00:09:11,851
like, at the forefront of your
career, and you're learning about

189
00:09:11,851 --> 00:09:13,561
bleaching and all this kind of stuff.

190
00:09:13,881 --> 00:09:17,551
What was your first idea in terms--
Before ICARE was even thought about,

191
00:09:17,551 --> 00:09:20,111
like, what was the first thing you
were thinking about when it was time

192
00:09:20,111 --> 00:09:23,871
to be like, "Hey, we either have to
put up or shut up," kind of thing?

193
00:09:24,281 --> 00:09:24,721
Sure.

194
00:09:24,771 --> 00:09:25,141
Sure.

195
00:09:25,441 --> 00:09:35,061
So, about 2017-ish, '28-- early 2018,
a young lady walked into my shop, and I

196
00:09:37,161 --> 00:09:39,541
Turned out to eventually
be my co-founder, Dr.

197
00:09:39,541 --> 00:09:40,231
Kylie Smith.

198
00:09:40,231 --> 00:09:43,101
And she was there just to fill some tanks.

199
00:09:43,591 --> 00:09:49,495
She was working on her PhD. She was doing
a project down in Marathon and, studying

200
00:09:49,495 --> 00:09:54,255
the relationship between the parrotfish
populations and coral outplants.

201
00:09:54,945 --> 00:10:00,765
And, you know, we were still going
through the tremendous coral loss

202
00:10:00,765 --> 00:10:02,655
with stony coral tissue loss disease.

203
00:10:02,885 --> 00:10:03,675
I said, "Okay.

204
00:10:04,125 --> 00:10:04,805
All right, Kylie.

205
00:10:05,075 --> 00:10:06,535
I don't know you too well, but sit down.

206
00:10:06,535 --> 00:10:09,985
I got a lot of questions for you."
And that's literally how it started.

207
00:10:10,365 --> 00:10:15,085
And she would come in every week, two,
three times a week, and she couldn't get

208
00:10:15,085 --> 00:10:18,595
out without me asking a dozen questions.

209
00:10:18,875 --> 00:10:21,915
I'm a very inquisitive person,
and I wanted to figure out what

210
00:10:21,915 --> 00:10:26,525
it is that was happening, why, if
anyone knew what was happening.

211
00:10:26,685 --> 00:10:29,625
Because at the time,
they really didn't know.

212
00:10:30,445 --> 00:10:37,815
It was too early on in the evolution of
that disease, so it was a mystery to most.

213
00:10:38,265 --> 00:10:44,338
And I said during this period of discovery
for me, I said, "Well, I've got an

214
00:10:44,338 --> 00:10:49,878
idea." I started doing some work with
another restoration group, and it gave

215
00:10:49,878 --> 00:10:54,801
me that idea of how we can incorporate
the public in a much more meaningful

216
00:10:54,801 --> 00:10:58,588
way, and using the best science possible.

217
00:10:59,578 --> 00:11:03,218
You know, It was an interesting
time for her because she's finishing

218
00:11:03,218 --> 00:11:06,618
her PhD, trying to figure out her
career path and what she wants to do.

219
00:11:07,085 --> 00:11:10,925
And I looked at it as a
fantastic business opportunity.

220
00:11:10,925 --> 00:11:14,635
I had already gone heavily into
conservation in other aspects

221
00:11:14,635 --> 00:11:15,955
that were much less scientific.

222
00:11:16,251 --> 00:11:20,541
you know, doing re- hosting reef
cleanups, distributing grocery bags

223
00:11:20,561 --> 00:11:24,081
to the community for free, so they
would have reusable grocery bags.

224
00:11:24,831 --> 00:11:29,021
Recovering all used wetsuits from the
Keys and having them made into yoga mats.

225
00:11:29,031 --> 00:11:32,481
So I was already on the forefront
of doing something unique as a

226
00:11:32,491 --> 00:11:38,008
business, and then this was a natural
direction for me to go because my--

227
00:11:38,018 --> 00:11:41,375
If anyone gets to know me, I'm a
complete coral geek, always have been.

228
00:11:41,945 --> 00:11:46,051
And I could stare at a piece of coral
and a hammerhead shark could swim in

229
00:11:46,051 --> 00:11:48,841
front of me, and I really-- It's like,
"Okay, cool, but let me look at this

230
00:11:48,841 --> 00:11:52,295
piece of coral, 'cause this is really
beautiful." And through those discussions

231
00:11:52,295 --> 00:11:57,225
with Dr. Smith, we were able to formulate
the basis of what ICARE is today.

232
00:11:57,265 --> 00:12:02,145
And that took about a year figuring
out what direction, convincing her not

233
00:12:02,145 --> 00:12:07,761
to take a government job and, being a,
the, top person in her own nonprofit.

234
00:12:08,421 --> 00:12:10,781
'Cause there's a lot of risk involved.

235
00:12:11,381 --> 00:12:12,431
I didn't see it that way.

236
00:12:13,001 --> 00:12:14,821
Her family members saw it that way.

237
00:12:14,851 --> 00:12:16,621
It's kind of a funny story
when you think about it.

238
00:12:17,001 --> 00:12:19,821
But I convinced her that,
"No, there's no risk.

239
00:12:19,961 --> 00:12:20,591
This is great.

240
00:12:20,591 --> 00:12:22,171
This is gonna be the best thing for you.

241
00:12:22,381 --> 00:12:25,831
Trust me, we're gonna make this
work." And, with her connections

242
00:12:25,841 --> 00:12:29,781
within the scientific community and my
connections within the dive industry,

243
00:12:30,001 --> 00:12:31,431
we were able to actually pull it off.

244
00:12:32,441 --> 00:12:33,021
That's amazing.

245
00:12:33,021 --> 00:12:35,471
So it is a nonprofit
organization, ICARE, right?

246
00:12:35,791 --> 00:12:36,051
Yes.

247
00:12:36,211 --> 00:12:36,848
Yes, it is.

248
00:12:36,848 --> 00:12:36,918
Okay.

249
00:12:36,968 --> 00:12:43,228
And so when you first started to put
this thing together, you went right

250
00:12:43,238 --> 00:12:46,758
to, "We're gonna restore the reefs.
We're gonna frag reefs, corals,

251
00:12:46,818 --> 00:12:50,028
and we're going to start planting
them." Was that the original idea?

252
00:12:50,028 --> 00:12:53,318
Was like, this is-- It was this where
Dr. Smith was like, this is the idea.

253
00:12:53,318 --> 00:12:54,448
This is what people are doing.

254
00:12:54,818 --> 00:12:56,398
This is what the science is telling us.

255
00:12:56,788 --> 00:12:58,708
This is how we're gonna
rebuild these reefs."

256
00:12:59,168 --> 00:13:01,608
There was a lot of discovery on
our part and a lot of learning.

257
00:13:01,668 --> 00:13:05,578
And I was learning the industry
as much as anything else.

258
00:13:06,218 --> 00:13:12,028
How other practitioners were, moving
forward, what they were doing, how

259
00:13:12,028 --> 00:13:16,038
they were doing it, what was working,
what was not working, in all aspects,

260
00:13:16,088 --> 00:13:21,728
from the actual work underwater,
above the waterline, and also how

261
00:13:21,728 --> 00:13:23,058
it works within the community.

262
00:13:23,508 --> 00:13:29,098
So we were working on all fronts,
and it wasn't just propagating coral.

263
00:13:29,558 --> 00:13:34,058
We started actually with a
partnership with working directly

264
00:13:34,058 --> 00:13:35,258
with Mote Marine Laboratories.

265
00:13:35,828 --> 00:13:38,038
And that's how it all started.

266
00:13:38,748 --> 00:13:39,268
What is it now?

267
00:13:39,268 --> 00:13:40,798
Almost five and a half years ago.

268
00:13:41,068 --> 00:13:45,010
January of '21, I think, is when we
put our first coral down But it has

269
00:13:45,010 --> 00:13:50,120
evolved since then where we are now
propagating all of our own coral

270
00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,610
and we have our own onshore nursery.

271
00:13:53,610 --> 00:13:57,620
And then in October, just over
a month, we are installing nine

272
00:13:57,650 --> 00:13:59,950
offshore coral and sponge nurseries.

273
00:14:00,380 --> 00:14:06,610
So it's becoming a full standalone
restoration effort for sure.

274
00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:08,270
Not just a partnership with anyone.

275
00:14:08,270 --> 00:14:13,480
But although we do partner now closely
with Reef Renewal USA, with Ken Nedimyer.

276
00:14:13,730 --> 00:14:15,300
We have a wonderful partnership there.

277
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:16,680
And we partner with everyone.

278
00:14:16,820 --> 00:14:20,080
We partner with Mote Marine Laboratories,
with our sponge work as well.

279
00:14:20,570 --> 00:14:24,160
So there's several partnerships,
and we also partner with Florida

280
00:14:24,170 --> 00:14:25,400
Aquarium and Reef Institute.

281
00:14:25,450 --> 00:14:28,450
And it's not just us as a standalone.

282
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,870
We do avail ourselves to everyone,
in a reciprocating way, for sure.

283
00:14:33,490 --> 00:14:37,000
And these partnerships, obviously there's
a lot of new things that you guys could

284
00:14:37,010 --> 00:14:40,300
be trying and can take what they've
been working on, 'cause all of them work

285
00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,610
on coral restoration at some point, in
some- Yes … part of their programs.

286
00:14:43,930 --> 00:14:44,900
Undoubtedly, yes.

287
00:14:44,910 --> 00:14:49,170
What do you find, like, you, like, ICARE
really gets from these partnerships?

288
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:50,920
What's the real benefit here?

289
00:14:51,527 --> 00:14:52,447
Wow, knowledge.

290
00:14:52,787 --> 00:14:55,700
I mean, really, truthfully, it's
knowledge first and foremost.

291
00:14:55,810 --> 00:14:58,123
We do share coral, of course.

292
00:14:58,153 --> 00:15:03,683
But the knowledge that we gain from
someone like Ken Nedimyer or with

293
00:15:03,683 --> 00:15:06,753
the works that Florida Aquarium are
doing, which is thoroughly cutting

294
00:15:06,753 --> 00:15:12,777
edge, that knowledge helps us advance
what work we are doing, for sure.

295
00:15:13,347 --> 00:15:17,057
We're installing nine
pop-up nurseries in October.

296
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:22,080
And for your audience, if they're
not aware, a pop-up nursery is this

297
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,420
idea was started by Ken Nedimyer.

298
00:15:24,890 --> 00:15:28,900
He did it in a couple locations, and we're
taking it to what we believe is another

299
00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:34,870
level because we believe that's an ideal
way for our setup so that each site that

300
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:37,290
we're restoring has its own nursery.

301
00:15:37,952 --> 00:15:43,329
And that comes from a conversation
that I had with Ken, and I said,

302
00:15:43,329 --> 00:15:48,029
"Okay, let's take it up a step,"
because we're taking divers out every

303
00:15:48,029 --> 00:15:51,819
day on our boats that are paid spots.

304
00:15:52,692 --> 00:15:56,685
One of the difficulties with an
offshore nursery is the maintenance.

305
00:15:57,465 --> 00:15:58,155
Everyone knows it.

306
00:15:58,155 --> 00:15:58,875
It's intense.

307
00:15:58,945 --> 00:15:59,945
it never stops.

308
00:16:01,095 --> 00:16:06,045
And we're gonna be the only
group to have people paying every

309
00:16:06,045 --> 00:16:07,565
day of the week to go do it.

310
00:16:08,535 --> 00:16:14,569
'Cause my boat and the other partners that
we work with in the Keys will have the

311
00:16:14,569 --> 00:16:19,819
option to offer to their customers, if, as
long as we're on the boat, they can either

312
00:16:19,819 --> 00:16:24,779
go dive the reef for fun or make a left
turn and go into the nursery and do work.

313
00:16:25,259 --> 00:16:26,219
It's their choice.

314
00:16:26,930 --> 00:16:29,630
That we don't have to pay for as a group.

315
00:16:29,630 --> 00:16:29,750
Right.

316
00:16:30,250 --> 00:16:31,670
Like, that, that's free to us.

317
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,380
Customers are paying to do that.

318
00:16:34,020 --> 00:16:37,810
That's vital considering the
constraints we have financially.

319
00:16:38,390 --> 00:16:45,227
And we also biologically keep the
corals and the sponges next to the

320
00:16:45,227 --> 00:16:50,197
areas that they're actually gonna
be transplanted to just feet away.

321
00:16:50,327 --> 00:16:53,237
So we don't have to remove the
corals from the water, put them on

322
00:16:53,237 --> 00:16:55,497
a boat, transport them someplace
else, put them back in the water.

323
00:16:56,297 --> 00:17:02,787
I know that that is acceptable and
it works, but that is a stressor

324
00:17:02,807 --> 00:17:04,717
that those corals don't have to
endure, and those sponges, they

325
00:17:05,287 --> 00:17:05,817
don't, do not have to endure.

326
00:17:05,817 --> 00:17:10,267
Sponges even more so because they are
so susceptible to that transport stress.

327
00:17:10,933 --> 00:17:15,113
I would imagine, I mean, to reduce risk
is probably the best thing that you

328
00:17:15,263 --> 00:17:20,383
can do is reduce that risk of lengthy
travel so that it's right there.

329
00:17:20,733 --> 00:17:21,723
A question for you.

330
00:17:21,723 --> 00:17:24,173
Y-y-you mentioned pop-up nurseries.

331
00:17:24,403 --> 00:17:28,643
So are these temporary nurseries
until you get what's going on, or

332
00:17:28,643 --> 00:17:32,673
are they, like, more semi-temporary
where they can be there for years?

333
00:17:33,007 --> 00:17:33,827
Semi-temporary.

334
00:17:33,837 --> 00:17:33,897
Yeah, okay.

335
00:17:33,897 --> 00:17:35,237
They'll definitely be there for years.

336
00:17:35,487 --> 00:17:36,057
Absolutely.

337
00:17:36,097 --> 00:17:36,397
Gotcha.

338
00:17:36,417 --> 00:17:41,517
I mean, in the eyes of the governing
bodies, the way it's set up, it's for

339
00:17:41,517 --> 00:17:44,667
five years to start and can be extended.

340
00:17:45,247 --> 00:17:47,607
The goal, of course, is to be
able to accomplish the job and

341
00:17:47,607 --> 00:17:48,687
not have the nursery there.

342
00:17:49,347 --> 00:17:53,637
We're all gonna learn how long that truly
does take but, temporary in that sense.

343
00:17:53,737 --> 00:17:55,837
And that's my next question is
like, what does success look

344
00:17:55,837 --> 00:17:57,907
like for each reef to you?

345
00:17:58,753 --> 00:18:00,753
You know, I think we're
all learning that as we go.

346
00:18:01,483 --> 00:18:04,733
That's an open-ended question that
most people are trying to figure out.

347
00:18:04,763 --> 00:18:08,163
I used to dive these reefs when
the corals competed for space.

348
00:18:08,644 --> 00:18:10,114
And there's no such thing anymore.

349
00:18:10,647 --> 00:18:17,177
And so what truly does determine the
time to move on, I think is, is a

350
00:18:17,197 --> 00:18:21,237
question that I'm not gonna be able
to answer for many years to come.

351
00:18:21,827 --> 00:18:27,097
I would say that current, right now,
we're having better and better success

352
00:18:27,827 --> 00:18:32,107
because we have a living laboratory
that we're able to capitalize on that,

353
00:18:32,427 --> 00:18:35,757
every year that we go through these
stressor events, whether a bleaching

354
00:18:35,757 --> 00:18:39,957
event, a disease, or whatever, gives
us a coral that's even more resilient.

355
00:18:40,657 --> 00:18:44,457
And we're seeing that, and, the
scientific community would probably

356
00:18:44,457 --> 00:18:48,567
gonna get upset with what I'm about
to say, but the bleaching events that

357
00:18:48,567 --> 00:18:52,974
we've had in the past, now granted from
a smaller, we have a smaller stock of

358
00:18:52,974 --> 00:18:58,574
corals that are alive out there, but the
temperatures that we have this summer,

359
00:18:59,251 --> 00:19:03,301
if you were to lay those temperatures
on 1995, we'd have a mass bleaching

360
00:19:03,301 --> 00:19:05,761
event already, and that's not happening.

361
00:19:06,407 --> 00:19:12,777
And I know that because these temperatures
didn't exist in '95, and the first

362
00:19:12,777 --> 00:19:16,994
bleaching event that I experienced
had exactly these temperatures at this

363
00:19:16,994 --> 00:19:22,634
exact same time, and it was widespread,
and that isn't happening today.

364
00:19:23,391 --> 00:19:27,291
And that tells me the corals that
we're propagating today are from

365
00:19:27,291 --> 00:19:32,141
that resilient base, giving us
corals that are more heat resistant.

366
00:19:32,161 --> 00:19:33,651
There's no question in my mind.

367
00:19:34,151 --> 00:19:36,241
Now, honestly, that's an- anecdotal.

368
00:19:36,241 --> 00:19:37,031
That is not a study.

369
00:19:37,031 --> 00:19:40,971
I'm not a scientist, but I
know what I see, and everyone

370
00:19:40,971 --> 00:19:42,621
on my team gets to see this.

371
00:19:43,221 --> 00:19:48,777
so I'm confident that 10 years from
now, with the rate at which we are

372
00:19:49,117 --> 00:19:53,597
putting these corals down, we'll be able
to move on from the sites that we're

373
00:19:53,597 --> 00:19:56,377
currently restoring to a newer site.

374
00:19:56,477 --> 00:20:01,047
Those corals that are now finally
spawning, producing more coral, the

375
00:20:01,047 --> 00:20:04,977
sponges that we're putting down,
keeping the water cleaner and clearer,

376
00:20:05,237 --> 00:20:06,297
all those things are important.

377
00:20:06,865 --> 00:20:09,635
The more you put down, the more
places there are for corals to settle.

378
00:20:09,645 --> 00:20:14,445
We're hoping we're gonna find success
in the grazer community or in the

379
00:20:14,445 --> 00:20:18,891
herbivore communities, which is
imperative for us long-term success.

380
00:20:19,721 --> 00:20:23,211
So there's a lot of things that
have to happen, but if you don't

381
00:20:23,211 --> 00:20:26,921
do something and you're not
prepared, then it'll all fall apart.

382
00:20:26,981 --> 00:20:29,171
and we're finding those
successes, there's no question.

383
00:20:29,901 --> 00:20:30,401
That's great.

384
00:20:30,491 --> 00:20:33,451
It's great to hear 'cause I think, as
someone who's not in the water all the

385
00:20:33,451 --> 00:20:37,231
time, like yourself, like for me, you
know, I live up in Canada, in Ontario.

386
00:20:37,231 --> 00:20:40,721
Love reefs, love the ocean, talk
about it all the time, but I'm not

387
00:20:40,721 --> 00:20:42,501
in the ocean to see the success.

388
00:20:42,501 --> 00:20:45,941
So when you hear people like, "Oh
yeah, I'm in coral restoration,"

389
00:20:46,001 --> 00:20:49,601
it's not a skepticism, but there's
just like you're up against a lot.

390
00:20:50,041 --> 00:20:54,901
Obviously there's local disturbances,
nutrient pollution, any kind of

391
00:20:54,931 --> 00:20:57,531
coastal development, those kind
of things that can be controlled

392
00:20:57,531 --> 00:20:59,101
from a local level, which is great.

393
00:20:59,111 --> 00:21:00,431
Fishing, all that kind of stuff.

394
00:21:00,791 --> 00:21:04,231
But when you look at the temperatures
and the bleaching events and the

395
00:21:04,231 --> 00:21:07,991
swings back and forth, I just covered
a story on Great Barrier Reef where

396
00:21:07,991 --> 00:21:11,851
they've said that in the last sort
of like 10 years, since 2017, they've

397
00:21:11,851 --> 00:21:13,911
seen a lot of swings back and forth.

398
00:21:13,911 --> 00:21:18,541
So years where the temperatures
really reached maximums and they

399
00:21:18,541 --> 00:21:22,591
saw really low coverage, like
record low coverages of coral cover.

400
00:21:22,661 --> 00:21:26,881
And then on the next year, they get a
storm or a bunch of storms, or the we

401
00:21:26,891 --> 00:21:31,681
haven't seen as much heat, and then
they recover 36% and increase that much.

402
00:21:31,691 --> 00:21:34,961
And there's coral cover by like
36% instead of down in the teens.

403
00:21:35,321 --> 00:21:38,521
But they say they're seeing a lot
more of these swings since 2017.

404
00:21:39,281 --> 00:21:43,531
So you almost wonder, like as a scientist,
I look at it and I'm like, obviously

405
00:21:43,531 --> 00:21:45,441
restoration has to happen at this point.

406
00:21:45,461 --> 00:21:46,081
there's no doubt.

407
00:21:46,081 --> 00:21:50,541
But you worry about the heat and how
that's going to affect these narrow

408
00:21:50,541 --> 00:21:58,621
ranged animals that are so critical
to shoreline security and fisheries

409
00:21:58,621 --> 00:22:02,491
and diversity and tourism, and there's
the social side and economic side.

410
00:22:03,411 --> 00:22:06,181
So it's good to hear and
like see these pictures.

411
00:22:06,181 --> 00:22:10,181
I'm looking at a picture on your
About page of a coral fragments

412
00:22:10,181 --> 00:22:11,891
that are on like this bare rock.

413
00:22:12,701 --> 00:22:17,491
And you can see there's probably maybe
25, 30 of these frags that are put on.

414
00:22:17,491 --> 00:22:19,371
I don't know what the type of
coral, and then you just see it.

415
00:22:19,441 --> 00:22:22,401
I don't know what it-- it doesn't say
the timescale here, but you just see

416
00:22:22,711 --> 00:22:25,611
probably like maybe a couple years later,
they've actually attached to themselves.

417
00:22:25,611 --> 00:22:28,791
They've actually connected and
you know, it's one big colony now.

418
00:22:29,031 --> 00:22:31,461
And it's pretty much
covering most of the rock.

419
00:22:32,169 --> 00:22:35,199
Looking at the first picture, seeing
how separated they are and seeing how

420
00:22:35,199 --> 00:22:38,749
this growth, like, and knowing that
we know these corals can be resilient

421
00:22:38,749 --> 00:22:44,019
if you just give them a break or you
give them that extra chance to survive.

422
00:22:44,079 --> 00:22:47,549
I do think there is something, I've
covered it on the podcast before, where

423
00:22:47,949 --> 00:22:52,599
there's specific corals or even Zoanthidea
that are more heat tolerant than others.

424
00:22:52,879 --> 00:22:56,439
And if we can start selecting for those
a little bit more, that would be great.

425
00:22:56,449 --> 00:22:59,949
It's not great for necessarily the entire
diversity of the species, but for the

426
00:22:59,949 --> 00:23:04,679
survival in the way that they're going
right now, we need anything we can get.

427
00:23:04,689 --> 00:23:06,089
And I do think you're right, Mike.

428
00:23:06,089 --> 00:23:07,209
I don't think it's anecdotal.

429
00:23:07,209 --> 00:23:08,369
I don't know the studies offhand.

430
00:23:08,369 --> 00:23:12,409
I'm sure there have been studies that
looking at how these corals that are still

431
00:23:12,409 --> 00:23:17,449
around today, still persisting since '95,
how they've been able to adapt, or the

432
00:23:17,449 --> 00:23:18,849
fact that it's just natural selections.

433
00:23:18,859 --> 00:23:23,909
Those with Zoanthidea that can have
that tolerance will actually persist.

434
00:23:24,109 --> 00:23:24,689
And who knows?

435
00:23:24,699 --> 00:23:29,419
In 10, 20 years we might see a very
different type of species that will

436
00:23:29,439 --> 00:23:31,569
persist through if we continue to grow.

437
00:23:31,569 --> 00:23:33,779
We have no idea what's gonna happen.

438
00:23:33,789 --> 00:23:37,679
But to see the recovery rates of this.

439
00:23:37,679 --> 00:23:42,009
There's another picture right underneath
that where on the one hand it looks

440
00:23:42,009 --> 00:23:46,699
like a lot of gorgonians and maybe
some algae, and it's very sparse.

441
00:23:46,719 --> 00:23:48,399
Not much coral, or not very big coral.

442
00:23:48,409 --> 00:23:49,549
They've just been planted.

443
00:23:49,769 --> 00:23:52,009
And two years later, these
are Acropora, I believe.

444
00:23:52,399 --> 00:23:54,439
These coral clusters two years
later, like they're huge.

445
00:23:54,549 --> 00:23:56,099
And these are slow-growing corals.

446
00:23:56,109 --> 00:23:58,759
Like they're not considered,
like they're stony corals.

447
00:23:58,789 --> 00:24:01,679
They're not as wide-ranging as
these soft corals, and they're huge.

448
00:24:01,699 --> 00:24:05,159
And you can see how much space they
take up, and you can see how persistent

449
00:24:05,179 --> 00:24:08,109
they are and what they can do in
terms of create these little habitats

450
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,469
that are around it as they grow.

451
00:24:09,799 --> 00:24:10,969
This is really big stuff.

452
00:24:10,989 --> 00:24:14,999
And I love the idea of having
these restoration sites.

453
00:24:15,249 --> 00:24:18,959
And we'll get into the business side
later of having like the divers paid

454
00:24:18,959 --> 00:24:23,409
to come out and do the work, which as a
diver, for me, that would be so much fun.

455
00:24:23,529 --> 00:24:26,379
It's an experience that you don't
normally get other than just

456
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:29,119
watching, which is what we're
designed to do for divers, right?

457
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:30,699
We go around- Mmm … and
we watch the beauty.

458
00:24:30,959 --> 00:24:35,349
Here, it's like I can leave and be like,
"I helped restore or helped, you know,

459
00:24:35,349 --> 00:24:39,019
put corals back into the water." For me,
that would be a kind of a cool thing.

460
00:24:39,019 --> 00:24:42,579
I think for a lot of divers who are
very eco-conscious, especially over

461
00:24:42,579 --> 00:24:45,259
the last 10 years who've seen this
kind of stuff, I think is really cool.

462
00:24:45,739 --> 00:24:49,379
Now, we're here also to talk
about The Descent Into the Blue.

463
00:24:49,409 --> 00:24:52,809
How did this movie come up with
the work that you're doing?

464
00:24:53,069 --> 00:24:55,099
You've been doing this for
about five and a half years.

465
00:24:55,439 --> 00:24:59,705
How did all the, the movie idea come
up, and how did you get hooked up with

466
00:24:59,705 --> 00:25:01,995
Rory Feely on this, who's a director?

467
00:25:02,295 --> 00:25:03,875
And how did all this come play out?

468
00:25:04,432 --> 00:25:11,662
One of the people in the movie who does
the filming was contacted by Rory, and

469
00:25:11,662 --> 00:25:13,812
then is a good friend, Fraser Nivens.

470
00:25:14,392 --> 00:25:21,422
And Fraser said, this is ideal for my
friend Mike and ICARE." And he hooked

471
00:25:21,422 --> 00:25:26,962
us up directly with Rory, and based on
what his vision was, and we had a…

472
00:25:27,252 --> 00:25:31,002
I remember having a lunch one
day as I was learning about what

473
00:25:31,002 --> 00:25:33,782
Rory's goals were for the movie.

474
00:25:34,442 --> 00:25:38,222
I said, "Well, our thoughts are
aligned." To change the mindsets

475
00:25:38,222 --> 00:25:42,082
of people that know nothing about
coralists, and they live in St. Louis.

476
00:25:42,422 --> 00:25:47,132
And their daily work has nothing
to do with conservation, the ocean.

477
00:25:47,362 --> 00:25:48,672
They don't even think about it.

478
00:25:49,072 --> 00:25:50,422
They know almost nothing about it.

479
00:25:50,432 --> 00:25:57,109
But to bring home to them the importance
of what is the most biodiverse ecosystem

480
00:25:57,109 --> 00:25:59,069
on our planet, bring it home to them.

481
00:25:59,575 --> 00:26:03,625
Open their eyes to what happens
when we lose this, if we lose this.

482
00:26:04,025 --> 00:26:07,175
Where are we headed, and
how it affects their lives.

483
00:26:07,925 --> 00:26:12,389
And that's what I've been
saying all along, trying to

484
00:26:12,419 --> 00:26:14,049
correlate back many years ago.

485
00:26:14,049 --> 00:26:17,499
They said loss of the rainforest, and
everyone understood, okay, the loss of

486
00:26:17,499 --> 00:26:21,772
the rainforest, what that means, and there
was all sorts of push, and there still

487
00:26:21,772 --> 00:26:25,832
is, and well, there should be, and how
that affects the health of our planet.

488
00:26:26,423 --> 00:26:27,883
The coral reef does the same thing.

489
00:26:28,813 --> 00:26:32,023
It is incredibly vital to
the health of our planet.

490
00:26:32,693 --> 00:26:37,696
And without that, we're stepping into
the unknown, and we wanted to, and

491
00:26:37,696 --> 00:26:40,016
I want to bring that home to people.

492
00:26:40,661 --> 00:26:41,601
It doesn't matter where they are.

493
00:26:41,631 --> 00:26:43,081
They don't need to be just in Florida.

494
00:26:43,841 --> 00:26:46,291
Floridians, we tend to
think about it more.

495
00:26:46,351 --> 00:26:49,754
The rest of the country, it's not
something they're conscious of.

496
00:26:50,254 --> 00:26:51,904
That was the goal of the movie.

497
00:26:52,174 --> 00:26:55,664
Someone who watches that
says, "Ah, holy crap.

498
00:26:56,084 --> 00:26:56,754
I get it.

499
00:26:57,444 --> 00:27:03,291
I understand it." And maybe the
next time they're down in Florida

500
00:27:03,581 --> 00:27:06,951
and they're diving, they say,
"I'm gonna look those guys up.

501
00:27:06,961 --> 00:27:09,291
I wanna get involved." Or, "I'm a parent.

502
00:27:09,331 --> 00:27:11,871
I've got two kids that are
entering into high school.

503
00:27:12,061 --> 00:27:13,031
They have no idea.

504
00:27:13,031 --> 00:27:14,131
Their heads are a mush.

505
00:27:14,141 --> 00:27:17,881
They're not sure what they're gonna do in
their lives, but let me introduce them to

506
00:27:18,051 --> 00:27:25,091
a possible career path." Go, enjoy, learn,
and maybe, STEM is gonna be your future.

507
00:27:26,011 --> 00:27:27,401
So there's all sorts of reasons.

508
00:27:27,959 --> 00:27:34,316
But bringing it to the unknown population
through the country and the world, if we

509
00:27:34,316 --> 00:27:37,386
can, is what the goal was for the movie.

510
00:27:37,426 --> 00:27:42,246
And when we sat down for lunch, we both
realized that we had the same objective.

511
00:27:43,036 --> 00:27:43,776
That's amazing.

512
00:27:44,036 --> 00:27:48,856
I think it's great for you to be
so excited about what you've been

513
00:27:48,856 --> 00:27:52,923
able to accomplish, and Dr. Smith
and the crew for the five and a half

514
00:27:52,923 --> 00:27:54,393
years that you've been doing this.

515
00:27:54,623 --> 00:27:58,563
I think it's a wonderful aspect to
say, "Hey, we've been able to do this,

516
00:27:58,563 --> 00:28:01,873
but we need to tell more people about
it." I think that's where the message

517
00:28:01,883 --> 00:28:05,063
really comes because a lot of the
stuff that's been done on restoration

518
00:28:05,063 --> 00:28:10,253
from a science perspective, a lot of
the times that's kind of put up into

519
00:28:10,253 --> 00:28:14,383
the science journal, behind a paywall
where nobody really gets access.

520
00:28:14,383 --> 00:28:17,543
And who wants, like, other than
scientists, which, you know, it

521
00:28:17,573 --> 00:28:20,573
brings the credibility, but other
than scientists, who really wants to

522
00:28:20,573 --> 00:28:24,613
read a science journal article with
all this, the math and everything?

523
00:28:24,613 --> 00:28:27,373
And it doesn't really
bring what you want home.

524
00:28:27,949 --> 00:28:31,979
To be able to show the
effect is wonderful.

525
00:28:31,979 --> 00:28:37,186
I want to kind of just have you take
people through sort of the ups and downs

526
00:28:37,246 --> 00:28:39,336
of the movie in terms of the content.

527
00:28:39,736 --> 00:28:42,926
Can you just talk us through,
like, the bit of the storyline,

528
00:28:43,316 --> 00:28:46,786
in terms of how everything is
introduced, where the problem is,

529
00:28:46,816 --> 00:28:49,846
and then the solution that you're
presenting at the end through iCare?

530
00:28:50,543 --> 00:28:53,753
I love the beginning of the movie
it's animated, where the little

531
00:28:53,753 --> 00:28:57,273
girl is throwing the sea stars into
the ocean, and she's confronted

532
00:28:57,273 --> 00:28:59,353
by the individual on the beach.

533
00:28:59,363 --> 00:29:02,643
You know, "What are you doing? You
can't really change them." And she

534
00:29:02,643 --> 00:29:06,493
says, her response to the person and
of course those that are gonna watch

535
00:29:06,493 --> 00:29:08,053
the movie, you'll get this immediately.

536
00:29:08,053 --> 00:29:13,010
But after she throws one sea star
that's washed ashore and she's

537
00:29:13,010 --> 00:29:15,740
confronted by that individual
saying, "You're wasting your time."

538
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,880
She says, "Well, not for that one
sea star it's not." And, that's kind

539
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,340
of the beginnings of what we do.

540
00:29:23,550 --> 00:29:24,610
That's why we do it.

541
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:31,060
Because if you focus on the grand effort
of restoring the world's reefs, you'll

542
00:29:31,060 --> 00:29:38,170
get overwhelmed really fast because it's
an enormous task way beyond the scope of

543
00:29:38,790 --> 00:29:42,620
me and the entire restoration community.

544
00:29:43,270 --> 00:29:43,640
Mm-hmm.

545
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,310
What you, what you have to narrow down
is that focus on that one sea star or

546
00:29:47,310 --> 00:29:52,740
that one small little patch reef, or that
one coral cluster that you just planted.

547
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,180
And seeing that coral, those
corals grow, that's what you need

548
00:29:57,180 --> 00:30:00,150
to stay focused on because that
one cluster that you put down.

549
00:30:00,150 --> 00:30:03,680
I put down some brain corals and I come
back and the brain corals we're working

550
00:30:03,690 --> 00:30:05,900
with these days are doing fabulous.

551
00:30:06,353 --> 00:30:09,053
Eight months, 10 months
later, they've all fused.

552
00:30:09,550 --> 00:30:12,480
A year later, they're
likely gonna be spawning.

553
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,660
And that's just one coral cluster.

554
00:30:14,660 --> 00:30:16,870
Well, that's how it starts.

555
00:30:17,423 --> 00:30:20,860
It doesn't start by restoring
the entirety of the reef system.

556
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:22,330
You can't do that.

557
00:30:22,350 --> 00:30:26,190
You gotta one coral at a time,
one little area at a time.

558
00:30:26,750 --> 00:30:33,863
And that narrow focus allows you to
then broaden your perspective on how we

559
00:30:33,863 --> 00:30:36,333
actually accomplish and create success.

560
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,650
So that beginning of the movie
really tells the story of what

561
00:30:40,660 --> 00:30:43,350
everyone is trying to accomplish.

562
00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:48,533
And if you keep that in mind as you're
watching this, you won't get frustrated

563
00:30:48,533 --> 00:30:55,163
thinking, "God, this is an impossible
task." But that every individual can

564
00:30:55,173 --> 00:30:58,003
make a difference if you want to.

565
00:30:58,563 --> 00:31:04,207
And that's how we can turn a
single sea star, if everyone is

566
00:31:04,227 --> 00:31:09,647
participating or every diver gets
involved, now you can turn that one

567
00:31:09,657 --> 00:31:14,307
sea star into millions of sea stars
being thrown back into the ocean.

568
00:31:14,887 --> 00:31:19,857
And that's kind of the way I look
at the movie, and hoping that others

569
00:31:19,857 --> 00:31:21,637
will help take up that charge.

570
00:31:22,353 --> 00:31:25,433
It's a great way of approaching,
what we're looking at in

571
00:31:25,433 --> 00:31:27,793
terms of coral restoration.

572
00:31:28,303 --> 00:31:32,963
I think you hit the nail on the head
when you said planting small pieces

573
00:31:32,963 --> 00:31:38,603
of fragments may seem like it's
impossible to repopulate a reef.

574
00:31:39,503 --> 00:31:42,743
But the fact is, is as it grows,
you mentioned the brain coral,

575
00:31:42,743 --> 00:31:45,303
as it grows, these brain corals
grow, like, really large too.

576
00:31:45,303 --> 00:31:51,239
And as they grow and they reproduce,
those gametes, larvae, whatever

577
00:31:51,239 --> 00:31:56,769
they are at the time, spread and
get caught up somewhere downstream,

578
00:31:57,089 --> 00:31:58,599
or wherever the current brings it.

579
00:31:58,619 --> 00:32:02,619
And it settles either within that
reef or away from that reef, and

580
00:32:02,619 --> 00:32:07,359
it can help build other reefs
just by creating one brain coral.

581
00:32:08,379 --> 00:32:09,839
And the- Like replanting
one gra- brain coral.

582
00:32:10,419 --> 00:32:14,149
And I think a lot of people
would see the opposite of just

583
00:32:14,159 --> 00:32:15,629
planting these little frags.

584
00:32:16,179 --> 00:32:19,699
You know, we have this entire
ocean where these reefs are dying.

585
00:32:20,039 --> 00:32:24,353
How are these little frags really going
to help repopulate, like a coral reef?

586
00:32:24,843 --> 00:32:30,603
Just that I think gives optimism or
pessimism depending on how they look at

587
00:32:30,603 --> 00:32:36,473
it, to go out and build these reefs and
really see how even if you're not building

588
00:32:36,473 --> 00:32:39,943
it to the full of what it was, like, in
the trailer it talked about, I think it

589
00:32:39,943 --> 00:32:45,133
was your voice of how when 30, 40 years
ago, it would be wall-to-wall corals.

590
00:32:45,133 --> 00:32:46,993
There wouldn't be many
spaces between the corals.

591
00:32:46,993 --> 00:32:48,553
You couldn't see the rock that much.

592
00:32:48,933 --> 00:32:51,419
and that was like the
reference point that we go to.

593
00:32:51,419 --> 00:32:53,759
But now people have a
different reference point.

594
00:32:53,899 --> 00:32:56,619
If they dive now, this is what
the reef looks like to them.

595
00:32:56,629 --> 00:33:00,296
Very bare, lot of spots, and So
they think this is a healthy reef.

596
00:33:00,736 --> 00:33:04,176
But if you talk to yourself or you talk
to anybody who's been diving those reefs,

597
00:33:04,176 --> 00:33:05,396
you're like, "Well, hold on a second.

598
00:33:05,396 --> 00:33:05,936
No, no, no, no, no.

599
00:33:05,936 --> 00:33:06,596
Let me tell you.

600
00:33:06,596 --> 00:33:07,106
Sit down.

601
00:33:07,116 --> 00:33:10,786
Like, let me tell you and even show
you , what it used to be." but I

602
00:33:10,806 --> 00:33:15,906
think that, that hope, that optimism
that planting those little frags can

603
00:33:15,916 --> 00:33:21,366
really build into a bigger reef is
such a good part of the story in there.

604
00:33:21,816 --> 00:33:25,286
I also like the community aspect
of the movie, where there's a lot

605
00:33:25,286 --> 00:33:27,286
of different voices in this film.

606
00:33:27,646 --> 00:33:30,766
You hear from kids, you hear from
adults, you hear from people who

607
00:33:30,766 --> 00:33:33,436
are from the Keys, you hear people
who are coming in from the Keys,

608
00:33:33,436 --> 00:33:35,126
the divers, you see it in the movie.

609
00:33:35,466 --> 00:33:38,946
Did you want that to be a part of
it, to see how diverse the community

610
00:33:38,946 --> 00:33:42,346
is that we're working to help out,
and it's not just a few individuals?

611
00:33:42,979 --> 00:33:43,459
Oh, yeah.

612
00:33:43,459 --> 00:33:48,429
Honestly, when we originally set this
up, we wanted as many voices as possible.

613
00:33:48,769 --> 00:33:51,529
It's not just a movie for
scientists to be looking at.

614
00:33:51,589 --> 00:33:55,879
Honestly, this is a movie for the
general public to inspire, not

615
00:33:55,879 --> 00:33:57,599
necessarily for the scientific community.

616
00:33:57,649 --> 00:34:00,219
The scientific community might look at
this through a different lens, which

617
00:34:00,219 --> 00:34:05,509
is fine, but it's really truly made for
the general public to understand that

618
00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:12,243
there is hope, that we can turn this, and
that success is up to us, and with our

619
00:34:12,263 --> 00:34:15,463
efforts, we will accomplish this goal.

620
00:34:15,873 --> 00:34:19,543
I think that's kind of the reason
why there's so many different voices.

621
00:34:19,973 --> 00:34:25,513
But from the filmmakers that are in the
movie, from Frasier or Steven Frink, from

622
00:34:25,763 --> 00:34:31,143
Ken Nedimyer or my co-founder, and then
our interns, and then the Curious Minds

623
00:34:31,143 --> 00:34:36,353
kids who are very fresh looking at it
from , a completely different perspective.

624
00:34:36,743 --> 00:34:43,443
All of those aspects and all of those
perspectives, I think give the viewer

625
00:34:43,893 --> 00:34:48,783
an insight into what we're doing,
but also that there is truly hope

626
00:34:49,243 --> 00:34:51,443
and the outcome isn't inevitable.

627
00:34:51,913 --> 00:34:57,083
The death of the reef is not inevitable,
and we can adjust what we do to have

628
00:34:57,083 --> 00:34:59,719
it survive and hopefully persist.

629
00:35:00,479 --> 00:35:02,069
What will be the coral of the future?

630
00:35:02,299 --> 00:35:02,999
I don't know.

631
00:35:03,289 --> 00:35:05,489
I don't know what's gonna be
happening here 100 years from

632
00:35:05,489 --> 00:35:06,859
now or 1,000 years from now.

633
00:35:07,249 --> 00:35:11,409
But if we give up today and
don't do anything, then we

634
00:35:11,889 --> 00:35:13,189
have the future baked in.

635
00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:14,249
Mm-hmm.

636
00:35:14,249 --> 00:35:15,289
That's not acceptable to me.

637
00:35:15,806 --> 00:35:22,176
What action do you hope the viewer
will take after watching this movie?

638
00:35:22,925 --> 00:35:24,265
It's kind of a hard question to answer.

639
00:35:24,265 --> 00:35:27,608
It depends on the, you know,
where they are in their lives.

640
00:35:27,708 --> 00:35:29,378
Just for them to understand.

641
00:35:29,968 --> 00:35:32,228
We haven't got into the money
side of it, but, you know,

642
00:35:32,228 --> 00:35:33,448
I come from that background.

643
00:35:33,468 --> 00:35:37,558
And I tell Dr. Smith all the time,
"Listen, I don't know who I'm speaking to.

644
00:35:38,178 --> 00:35:41,535
I never know." And I don't
take anyone for granted.

645
00:35:41,895 --> 00:35:45,375
I don't know who's gonna walk in the door
or who I'm gonna talk to on a pod- who's

646
00:35:45,375 --> 00:35:47,625
listening on a podcast or in an interview.

647
00:35:48,068 --> 00:35:50,928
But everyone I look at
in a, from that lens.

648
00:35:51,158 --> 00:35:55,128
As crass as that may
sound, it's the way it is.

649
00:35:55,328 --> 00:35:59,495
We are dealing with a different
environment for funding that most have

650
00:35:59,495 --> 00:36:02,315
never faced before on a federal level.

651
00:36:02,315 --> 00:36:05,615
At a state level in Florida, we're having
a change of administration from the

652
00:36:05,615 --> 00:36:11,725
DeSantis administration, which has been
supportive and incredibly supportive of

653
00:36:11,725 --> 00:36:16,155
the work that we do, to now we're stepping
into an unknown where they have cut the,

654
00:36:16,185 --> 00:36:19,968
the-- They're not funding, for 2028.

655
00:36:21,508 --> 00:36:26,238
And with that, the new administration,
whoever that is, has to shape

656
00:36:26,238 --> 00:36:29,038
it the way they see it working.

657
00:36:29,118 --> 00:36:33,948
And that unknown is very uncomfortable
for us and for everyone in Florida

658
00:36:33,948 --> 00:36:35,598
that's involved with reef restoration.

659
00:36:35,598 --> 00:36:38,903
So you see someone, you're talking to
someone, I don't take it for granted.

660
00:36:38,923 --> 00:36:43,903
That may just spark an idea and say, " I
wanna be a financial backer of what

661
00:36:43,903 --> 00:36:47,983
you're doing because not only are you
rebuilding the reef, but you're at the

662
00:36:47,993 --> 00:36:53,173
forefront of rebuilding an economy and
supporting economy at all levels, and

663
00:36:53,183 --> 00:36:57,823
involving the community of divers, not
only in Florida, but the community of

664
00:36:57,853 --> 00:37:01,733
divers around the country and around
the world who come and need that, and

665
00:37:01,733 --> 00:37:04,553
want that outlet to be a participant."

666
00:37:04,563 --> 00:37:07,323
So, I always look at it
from that perspective.

667
00:37:07,933 --> 00:37:11,060
As I said, it's below the way
that most scientists think.

668
00:37:11,070 --> 00:37:12,850
That's not the way they
wanna approach things.

669
00:37:12,860 --> 00:37:12,880
Mm-hmm.

670
00:37:12,890 --> 00:37:14,630
But that's just the reality.

671
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:20,690
And for me, not being a scientist, I'm
never afraid to ask people for stuff.

672
00:37:20,930 --> 00:37:22,010
I've never been afraid.

673
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:23,640
So I always make it known.

674
00:37:23,790 --> 00:37:26,970
"Listen, if you like what we're doing,
you think it's that important, here's

675
00:37:26,970 --> 00:37:30,480
what it takes to get behind what
we're doing and we need support." So,

676
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,830
that's the other side of the not so
pretty side of what we have to do.

677
00:37:35,190 --> 00:37:37,200
Well, like I'll be honest,
I think it's different.

678
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,700
I think it is the pretty
side of what you have to do.

679
00:37:39,730 --> 00:37:42,130
I think it's the future
of what you have to do.

680
00:37:42,350 --> 00:37:48,593
I think this movie shows not only
the level of effort, but like that it

681
00:37:48,603 --> 00:37:53,393
requires everybody, not just you, not
just Dr. Smith, not just your team.

682
00:37:53,913 --> 00:37:57,483
It requires a community of divers
to come out and participate

683
00:37:57,523 --> 00:37:59,443
and help with the restoration.

684
00:37:59,513 --> 00:38:05,236
It requires funding whether it's
through dive dues, like when they pay

685
00:38:05,236 --> 00:38:09,236
to dive with your outfit, or whether
it be in some other form, whether it's

686
00:38:09,236 --> 00:38:11,016
like an adopt a coral kind of thing.

687
00:38:11,466 --> 00:38:15,216
There's the science side where
scientists care about obviously doing

688
00:38:15,216 --> 00:38:19,566
good in the world, helping with the
restoration by looking at how to

689
00:38:20,066 --> 00:38:23,106
make the process more efficient,
looking at it from a physiological

690
00:38:23,106 --> 00:38:26,586
side, publishing, getting that
credibility, getting people other eyes.

691
00:38:26,596 --> 00:38:28,966
So we have people all over
the world working on it.

692
00:38:29,386 --> 00:38:33,246
Sharing that information from a scientific
perspective, I think is a great idea.

693
00:38:33,916 --> 00:38:38,076
But I always say that the business
people are the solution makers.

694
00:38:38,266 --> 00:38:41,806
They're the ones who's like, they see
a problem, whatever that is, they see

695
00:38:41,806 --> 00:38:43,576
a problem, and they deliver on it.

696
00:38:43,766 --> 00:38:47,209
Amazon saw a problem, like the guy
from Amazon, he was like, at one

697
00:38:47,209 --> 00:38:50,596
point, he's like, "If I can get
things to your door, that would

698
00:38:50,606 --> 00:38:52,426
be easier." It's changed the game.

699
00:38:52,726 --> 00:38:54,356
You're looking at reefs are declining.

700
00:38:54,356 --> 00:38:54,996
That's the problem.

701
00:38:54,996 --> 00:38:59,446
If I can get reefs back up, not only
is that good for my business, but

702
00:38:59,446 --> 00:39:00,886
it's also good for the environment.

703
00:39:00,956 --> 00:39:03,606
I mean, we can talk about
biodiversities, shoreline

704
00:39:03,606 --> 00:39:05,876
security, so many benefits to that.

705
00:39:06,446 --> 00:39:08,426
But it's also you care
about the environment.

706
00:39:08,456 --> 00:39:10,016
It's you care about the world around you.

707
00:39:10,016 --> 00:39:12,226
You care about what it's
gonna look like for the next

708
00:39:12,226 --> 00:39:14,206
generation of divers and so forth.

709
00:39:14,636 --> 00:39:18,713
I think the money aspect has to come in
because as you said, we can't always rely

710
00:39:18,713 --> 00:39:20,953
on funding depending on who's in power.

711
00:39:21,373 --> 00:39:24,123
Because there's some people that
are in power that really wanna

712
00:39:24,463 --> 00:39:25,813
fund this, and it's expensive.

713
00:39:26,093 --> 00:39:27,053
It can be expensive.

714
00:39:27,543 --> 00:39:30,173
Restoration's always more
expensive than preservation.

715
00:39:30,613 --> 00:39:33,793
But there's gonna be others who
wanna cut everything, and they

716
00:39:33,793 --> 00:39:35,733
don't want have to do anything.

717
00:39:35,893 --> 00:39:37,723
Whether they care about the
environment or not, they're just

718
00:39:37,723 --> 00:39:39,513
like, "This is too much money."

719
00:39:39,513 --> 00:39:43,303
It's a quote-unquote, "luxury,"
which obviously we can debate of

720
00:39:43,303 --> 00:39:45,883
whether that's legitimate or not,
but we're not gonna get into that.

721
00:39:45,883 --> 00:39:47,513
That's not the purpose of this podcast.

722
00:39:47,523 --> 00:39:53,726
But, I think having the business solutions
to come up with a way to get the money,

723
00:39:54,076 --> 00:39:59,736
but also give something of value to the
people who are providing that money,

724
00:39:59,736 --> 00:40:02,386
I think is a really important part.

725
00:40:02,766 --> 00:40:05,566
And without revealing kind of any
secrets of like what you're doing

726
00:40:05,566 --> 00:40:08,116
in the future, 'cause I know it's
a business and everything, but

727
00:40:08,116 --> 00:40:10,808
like- There are different ways.

728
00:40:10,828 --> 00:40:13,188
There's the DOP, the coral
and things like that.

729
00:40:13,878 --> 00:40:15,478
You mentioned earlier they kinda all work.

730
00:40:15,528 --> 00:40:20,508
Can you just talk about some of the ways
that people have been funding or getting

731
00:40:20,508 --> 00:40:24,658
people to fund it through either payment
of some sort and not just a donation?

732
00:40:25,211 --> 00:40:26,001
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

733
00:40:26,001 --> 00:40:34,501
So, when we set up ICARE, the objective
was to have every diver that walks

734
00:40:34,501 --> 00:40:38,335
through the door, whether they're
participating or not If your dive costs

735
00:40:38,335 --> 00:40:43,325
you $100, there's gonna be $2 added
on, and that's gonna go to the work.

736
00:40:43,615 --> 00:40:47,125
I started raising money long before we
put our first coral down, of course.

737
00:40:47,735 --> 00:40:49,975
And, I started it with two shops.

738
00:40:49,975 --> 00:40:52,905
We now have three different
shops that are actively involved.

739
00:40:53,445 --> 00:40:58,185
And in all those years, no one
has ever objected to that $2.

740
00:40:58,592 --> 00:41:04,835
And I also pacify those divers by letting
them know that I personally take 2% of all

741
00:41:04,835 --> 00:41:07,965
my dive revenue, and I also donate that.

742
00:41:08,065 --> 00:41:11,365
When I think about the amount of money
that I've personally put in, my wife's

743
00:41:11,365 --> 00:41:15,508
like, "Are you kidding me?" " That's
a good chunk of our retirement."

744
00:41:15,848 --> 00:41:18,408
I said, "Yeah, but there's some
things, you know, where this is just

745
00:41:18,418 --> 00:41:22,578
more important, than living a little
bit more comfortably. It's more

746
00:41:22,578 --> 00:41:26,158
important that I put that money…"
And it's a lot of money that we put in.

747
00:41:26,208 --> 00:41:28,548
So those are a couple
of things that we do.

748
00:41:28,618 --> 00:41:31,788
People obviously that participate
in our coral outplants, they pay

749
00:41:31,798 --> 00:41:35,548
as well, an additional dollar
to be an active participant.

750
00:41:36,078 --> 00:41:39,198
Our local community of
divers will also pay that.

751
00:41:39,208 --> 00:41:40,188
It's not free to them.

752
00:41:40,748 --> 00:41:44,058
And so those are the, I don't like
using this word generally speaking,

753
00:41:44,058 --> 00:41:46,168
but like a user fee of sorts.

754
00:41:46,888 --> 00:41:52,894
And I think one of the things that
sets us apart is the perspective

755
00:41:52,894 --> 00:41:59,740
that I try to impart to my team
and to those that are involved.

756
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:05,990
And that is, we have a fiduciary
responsibility to everyone that's a

757
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:09,040
participant at any level and every level.

758
00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:15,060
Whether it's just the $2 or it's
$25, or whatever it is, or if

759
00:42:15,060 --> 00:42:19,140
it's a larger donation, we have a
responsibility to do it the right way.

760
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:24,534
And I think we convey that
with how we conduct our work.

761
00:42:24,817 --> 00:42:29,957
And that allows us to get, I believe,
the public more invested in what we do.

762
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:35,080
So when we first started, we decided
that we were gonna monitor 100% of

763
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,010
all of our corals that we put down at,
uh, intervals of one week, one month,

764
00:42:39,460 --> 00:42:41,740
90 days, one, two, and three years.

765
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,520
And that wasn't being done in the
industry, at least in the Keys.

766
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,850
And what was being done, without going
into great detail, wasn't something

767
00:42:48,850 --> 00:42:53,267
that made sense to me, and I don't
think it invited long-term success.

768
00:42:53,904 --> 00:43:01,904
And we now, because of that approach,
is now the standard that most of the

769
00:43:01,904 --> 00:43:03,694
practitioners are now adhering to.

770
00:43:03,724 --> 00:43:04,800
And we're the new guys.

771
00:43:05,390 --> 00:43:06,150
What do we know?

772
00:43:06,650 --> 00:43:10,070
And we're saying, "Well, listen, that
didn't make sense to me to monitor

773
00:43:10,070 --> 00:43:14,737
20% of what it is that you're putting
down and not randomize that 20%

774
00:43:15,167 --> 00:43:17,707
to select what you want to report.

775
00:43:18,017 --> 00:43:22,347
Okay, you're not gonna give accurate
information, and I can't do that

776
00:43:22,557 --> 00:43:25,687
and say that I have a fi- if I have
a fiduciary responsibility to those

777
00:43:25,687 --> 00:43:28,847
folks that are giving me money,
I'm doing wrong by those dollars.

778
00:43:29,667 --> 00:43:32,777
I can't look at them, and a lot
of these people, a large number of

779
00:43:32,777 --> 00:43:35,537
them, I know personally because I've
been in this business for so long.

780
00:43:35,887 --> 00:43:38,677
These are people that
believe in me, trust me.

781
00:43:39,307 --> 00:43:42,037
And I'm not doing right by them, that's
not gonna sit well with me at all.

782
00:43:42,037 --> 00:43:48,184
So we start from that base and because of
that, we have a very high success level.

783
00:43:48,844 --> 00:43:54,964
One year after outplant, our survival
is 47% across all 17 species that we

784
00:43:54,964 --> 00:43:56,684
work with, and that's pretty high.

785
00:43:57,044 --> 00:43:57,904
That's pretty darn high.

786
00:43:57,934 --> 00:44:01,680
And you'd be surprised how few can
actually report what their survival is.

787
00:44:02,127 --> 00:44:04,657
And we've been able to report
that year after year after year.

788
00:44:05,227 --> 00:44:08,387
Despite the coral bleaching
event of 2023, we're still

789
00:44:08,697 --> 00:44:10,547
reporting what our survival is.

790
00:44:10,547 --> 00:44:12,027
We're not hiding anything.

791
00:44:12,604 --> 00:44:16,540
And I think that invites those
people to want to be involved

792
00:44:16,860 --> 00:44:19,640
and support the work that we do.

793
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:25,940
Again, being responsible financially to
those investors is critical to them in

794
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,480
trusting future dollars to us, coming
back to do more work with us when they

795
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,578
get to see the corals that they put
down actually had survived So that's

796
00:44:35,678 --> 00:44:37,238
kind of way I see it financially.

797
00:44:37,858 --> 00:44:38,658
It's huge.

798
00:44:39,298 --> 00:44:41,752
It's such a huge part
when you put it together.

799
00:44:41,762 --> 00:44:42,942
It's the service you're providing.

800
00:44:42,942 --> 00:44:48,012
It's not just the fact that you're
saying, "Hey, I want money to do this

801
00:44:48,012 --> 00:44:50,772
work." You wanna show that you're doing
it, but you're also doing it, that

802
00:44:50,782 --> 00:44:55,802
you're looking to increase the success
rate as much as possible by monitoring

803
00:44:55,802 --> 00:44:57,372
that and being transparent about that.

804
00:44:57,372 --> 00:45:00,512
Obviously, not every transplant
is gonna be successful.

805
00:45:00,782 --> 00:45:00,832
Of course.

806
00:45:00,832 --> 00:45:04,312
There are natural things in the world
and unnatural things in the world that

807
00:45:04,312 --> 00:45:09,522
could harm them, and that's part of
living out in the ocean, for corals.

808
00:45:09,572 --> 00:45:13,172
But the fact is, is you're showing,
again, it goes in the name, ICARE.

809
00:45:13,492 --> 00:45:15,722
You care about what's being put in there.

810
00:45:15,972 --> 00:45:17,922
And I think that's an important value.

811
00:45:17,982 --> 00:45:21,792
I think it goes probably to a lot
of the divers and people who are

812
00:45:21,792 --> 00:45:25,542
listening to this who may not be
divers, who will say, "I'm willing to

813
00:45:25,542 --> 00:45:28,502
put my money behind this guy because
he's willing to give me reports.

814
00:45:28,502 --> 00:45:31,122
He's willing to give me the
information to say, 'Hey, this actually

815
00:45:31,122 --> 00:45:32,772
worked,' or, 'We tried this method.

816
00:45:32,792 --> 00:45:34,602
It didn't work too well and this is why.

817
00:45:34,722 --> 00:45:37,012
And then we're gonna try another
one.'" I think that's the

818
00:45:37,012 --> 00:45:38,862
science of it all, to be honest.

819
00:45:38,872 --> 00:45:40,872
Like, that's- Mm-hmm … you're
doing science just by being

820
00:45:40,892 --> 00:45:42,162
transparent and monitoring.

821
00:45:42,422 --> 00:45:46,365
Obviously, Dr. Smith is able to provide
a lot of that, the methodology and the

822
00:45:46,365 --> 00:45:49,735
science and looking it up, and you're
able to handle the business side.

823
00:45:49,745 --> 00:45:52,705
And I think it's a great partnership,
and with the rest of your team

824
00:45:52,715 --> 00:45:55,865
and what you've been able to
accomplish is absolutely amazing.

825
00:45:56,115 --> 00:46:00,205
And then having this movie that's coming
out, Into The Descent Into the Blue,

826
00:46:00,205 --> 00:46:04,628
is such an important part of that, is
to show the work that goes into it, to

827
00:46:04,628 --> 00:46:06,188
show people that there is a lot of work.

828
00:46:06,188 --> 00:46:08,658
So when you do put your money
into it, you're putting the

829
00:46:08,658 --> 00:46:11,848
money into this hardworking thing
that we have going on, and it's

830
00:46:11,848 --> 00:46:13,388
important to us that you see that.

831
00:46:13,508 --> 00:46:14,188
I think that's great.

832
00:46:14,228 --> 00:46:15,238
It's not an advertisement.

833
00:46:15,238 --> 00:46:17,308
It's just like this is the
reality of the world we live in.

834
00:46:17,598 --> 00:46:18,758
We're here to find solutions.

835
00:46:18,758 --> 00:46:20,528
And you know, we're here to
implement those solutions,

836
00:46:20,808 --> 00:46:22,368
which I think is very admirable.

837
00:46:22,558 --> 00:46:24,902
So Mike, I wanna thank you for
the work that you're doing.

838
00:46:25,122 --> 00:46:28,612
You know, not giving up, 'cause as
have many people who would have.

839
00:46:28,952 --> 00:46:33,012
You and Dr. Smith and the team, and
the team at your diving operation.

840
00:46:33,012 --> 00:46:34,512
Can you just name out
your diving operation?

841
00:46:34,612 --> 00:46:37,682
Just so that people know if they wanna
go down to the Keys in Islamorada.

842
00:46:37,792 --> 00:46:38,322
Oh, absolutely.

843
00:46:38,322 --> 00:46:38,512
Yeah.

844
00:46:38,512 --> 00:46:39,422
It's Key Dives.

845
00:46:39,825 --> 00:46:41,725
We're located in Islamorada.

846
00:46:42,375 --> 00:46:48,142
And the shop was voted number one
in North America across all seven

847
00:46:48,142 --> 00:46:52,662
categories at Scuba Diving Magazine
readers poll for 2025, and then

848
00:46:52,992 --> 00:46:57,062
it'll be announced the first week of
September that we also were number

849
00:46:57,062 --> 00:46:59,632
one again across all seven categories.

850
00:46:59,742 --> 00:47:01,782
We swept every category
for two years in a row.

851
00:47:01,782 --> 00:47:02,812
It's never happened before.

852
00:47:03,362 --> 00:47:09,132
And the reason I believe we are number
one is because of the work that we do.

853
00:47:09,752 --> 00:47:13,076
People understand, and I
tell this to my divers.

854
00:47:13,076 --> 00:47:16,246
I said, "Listen, the more people
that come here, the more I get

855
00:47:16,246 --> 00:47:18,266
to donate, so keep coming."

856
00:47:18,896 --> 00:47:19,446
I love that.

857
00:47:19,856 --> 00:47:20,746
I love that aspect.

858
00:47:20,756 --> 00:47:23,866
You come, and it's not that
you're just coming to take part.

859
00:47:23,896 --> 00:47:25,256
Like you said, some people can take part.

860
00:47:25,256 --> 00:47:27,416
If you just wanna go
diving, you can go diving.

861
00:47:27,736 --> 00:47:30,956
And you're enjoying yourself, and
you're donating to a great cause.

862
00:47:30,976 --> 00:47:32,016
That's the beauty of it.

863
00:47:32,036 --> 00:47:35,306
That's what's nice, is you get to enjoy
yourself while donating to a great cause.

864
00:47:35,306 --> 00:47:38,296
And then so you can come back over,
and over, and over again, and you'll

865
00:47:38,296 --> 00:47:40,186
see a nice reef in the future.

866
00:47:40,196 --> 00:47:42,756
Mike, I wanna thank you so much for the
work that you've put in, the work that

867
00:47:42,756 --> 00:47:46,336
your team put in, and Rory as well for
the work that he's put into the film.

868
00:47:46,616 --> 00:47:51,326
It is coming out September
1st, 2026 on PBS.

869
00:47:51,656 --> 00:47:53,286
Check it out your local listings.

870
00:47:53,336 --> 00:47:54,126
Go watch it.

871
00:47:54,136 --> 00:47:56,026
Let us know what you think of it.

872
00:47:56,266 --> 00:47:58,976
My socials are in the show notes, but also
I'm gonna put, Mike, I'm gonna put your

873
00:47:58,976 --> 00:48:03,246
social media tags for not only the dive
shop, but ICARE as well, and for the film.

874
00:48:03,446 --> 00:48:05,176
And yeah, thank you so much for coming on.

875
00:48:05,186 --> 00:48:06,446
This has been absolutely wonderful.

876
00:48:06,446 --> 00:48:08,916
Love to have you back on just
to kinda see how things are

877
00:48:08,916 --> 00:48:10,316
progressing over the next year.

878
00:48:10,496 --> 00:48:13,909
We're heading into what they're calling
an El Niño, but even maybe even a super

879
00:48:13,909 --> 00:48:17,919
El Niño, so I think it'll be interesting
to see how these reefs and how these

880
00:48:17,919 --> 00:48:21,259
fragments are gonna handle themselves,
good or bad, I think it would be good to

881
00:48:21,259 --> 00:48:23,009
talk about just to see what the work is.

882
00:48:23,009 --> 00:48:25,559
But I'd love to have you back on
maybe sometime in the next year or so.

883
00:48:26,146 --> 00:48:26,986
It'd be a pleasure, Andrew.

884
00:48:26,986 --> 00:48:28,136
Thank you so much for the time.

885
00:48:28,416 --> 00:48:29,246
I really appreciate it.

886
00:48:29,816 --> 00:48:30,316
You bet.

887
00:48:30,316 --> 00:48:30,336
You bet.

888
00:48:30,336 --> 00:48:30,866
No problem.

889
00:48:31,403 --> 00:48:34,153
Thank you, Mike, for not only coming
on the podcast and joining us on the

890
00:48:34,153 --> 00:48:36,853
How to Protect the Ocean podcast today,
but also for the work that you do.

891
00:48:36,863 --> 00:48:39,593
You and Kylie and your
team are phenomenal.

892
00:48:39,603 --> 00:48:43,287
The divers that show up with part
of your dive shop that go out and

893
00:48:43,297 --> 00:48:45,297
do the work, thank you so much.

894
00:48:45,297 --> 00:48:46,807
Thank you to everybody who's donated.

895
00:48:46,807 --> 00:48:50,387
Thank you to everybody who's participated
in these types of projects, whether

896
00:48:50,387 --> 00:48:53,967
it's through ICARE or through
another coral restoration thing.

897
00:48:54,027 --> 00:48:57,927
The one thing that really got me was
the fact that if you plant some small

898
00:48:57,927 --> 00:49:02,127
fragments on a rock, they can connect,
they can join up, they can become bigger,

899
00:49:02,237 --> 00:49:05,927
and then they start reproducing, and
those reproduction things start moving

900
00:49:06,047 --> 00:49:10,210
around, and they start to grow in other
places, which helps rebuild the reef.

901
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,327
This is the key, folks, is the optimism,
the hope that once you put these

902
00:49:14,327 --> 00:49:17,903
reefs back in, in a place where they
can grow and in a place where they

903
00:49:17,903 --> 00:49:20,243
can do well, then they will recover.

904
00:49:20,253 --> 00:49:21,953
They are resilient enough to recover.

905
00:49:21,953 --> 00:49:24,833
We're seeing it in the Great Barrier
Reef when there are times when the

906
00:49:24,833 --> 00:49:28,457
temperature gets lower, the water's
a little better, the pH is a little

907
00:49:28,457 --> 00:49:31,187
better, they will recover, really fast.

908
00:49:31,307 --> 00:49:34,947
It's just a matter of can we give them
time and sustain that time so that they

909
00:49:34,947 --> 00:49:36,987
recover and become even more resilient?

910
00:49:37,317 --> 00:49:40,123
Coral restoration is a great
example of that happening.

911
00:49:40,263 --> 00:49:41,243
It's a tough business.

912
00:49:41,253 --> 00:49:42,513
It's an expensive business.

913
00:49:42,620 --> 00:49:44,540
So if you're gonna donate, please do so.

914
00:49:44,540 --> 00:49:47,890
You can go to ICARE, icareaboutcoral.org.

915
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:49,880
That's icareaboutcoral.org.

916
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,537
I'll put the link in the show
notes, and you can check that out.

917
00:49:52,567 --> 00:49:54,797
And if you feel like you
wanna donate, you can do so.

918
00:49:54,933 --> 00:49:55,783
But watch their stuff.

919
00:49:55,783 --> 00:49:57,453
Follow them on Instagram.

920
00:49:57,617 --> 00:50:01,067
Their handle is, let me just
get it, ICARE About Coral.

921
00:50:01,317 --> 00:50:02,437
Surprise, surprise.

922
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,410
Or it's @I.CARE is where they go.

923
00:50:05,460 --> 00:50:08,417
But if you search up ICARE About
Coral, that's what you look for.

924
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:09,500
You can watch videos.

925
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:12,333
You can watch things that they do,
cleanups and all that kinda stuff.

926
00:50:12,333 --> 00:50:15,003
It's all about the community,
and it's really important to

927
00:50:15,003 --> 00:50:16,713
have a part of the community.

928
00:50:16,713 --> 00:50:19,753
Even if you live in Canada, if you live
all across the world, it doesn't matter.

929
00:50:19,753 --> 00:50:22,973
You can take part, or you can
take part into your own local

930
00:50:22,973 --> 00:50:24,183
coastal reef restoration.

931
00:50:24,243 --> 00:50:25,083
I think that's really important.

932
00:50:25,143 --> 00:50:26,727
Anyway, thank you again for Mike.

933
00:50:26,727 --> 00:50:30,887
I'm gonna put the link to the trailer as
well as the links to ICARE About Coral.

934
00:50:30,997 --> 00:50:33,547
I wanna thank him for the work
that he does, the team, the work

935
00:50:33,547 --> 00:50:34,977
that they do, and Kylie, of course.

936
00:50:35,117 --> 00:50:38,537
And also just thank you for joining
us on today's episode of the How

937
00:50:38,537 --> 00:50:39,637
to Protect the Ocean podcast.

938
00:50:39,767 --> 00:50:40,847
I am your host, Andrew Lewin.

939
00:50:40,857 --> 00:50:41,497
Have a great day.

940
00:50:41,497 --> 00:50:43,727
We'll talk to you next time,
and happy conservation.