The 90 Percent Fix Hiding in Your Laundry Room

1
00:00:00,057 --> 00:00:01,057
If I tell you

2
00:00:01,208 --> 00:00:03,578
the term plastic pollution, what are you
thinking?

3
00:00:03,578 --> 00:00:05,839
Might be thinking plastic bags,

4
00:00:05,839 --> 00:00:09,131
maybe plastic straws, or maybe that water
bottle,

5
00:00:09,131 --> 00:00:13,512
that single-use water bottle that that
people take and on the road or when they
take

6
00:00:13,512 --> 00:00:17,184
at home or they need it if they live in an
island community where they don't have,

7
00:00:17,184 --> 00:00:19,725
you know, access to clean water,

8
00:00:19,725 --> 00:00:22,786
which is understandable. But there's still
plastic pollution and it still needs

9
00:00:22,786 --> 00:00:27,488
to be addressed. But what if I talk to you
about the fibers that come

10
00:00:27,488 --> 00:00:29,499
off your clothes, the microfibers?

11
00:00:29,743 --> 00:00:34,214
And how big of a problem these microfibers
are in the ocean.

12
00:00:34,214 --> 00:00:37,814
Not only in the ocean, but in a lot of
other things that happen within

13
00:00:37,814 --> 00:00:39,916
our environment, whether it's agriculture,

14
00:00:39,916 --> 00:00:43,417
whether it's river systems, whether it's
lakes,

15
00:00:43,417 --> 00:00:45,755
whether it's oceans, it's found pretty
much everywhere.

16
00:00:45,755 --> 00:00:49,339
And it's because it's coming from our
clothes in the new way we do clothes.

17
00:00:49,339 --> 00:00:54,500
But there are ways that we can fix it and
catch 90% of them before they

18
00:00:54,500 --> 00:00:56,821
go out of our wash. We're gonna talk to
Dr.

19
00:00:56,821 --> 00:00:57,821
Anya.

20
00:00:58,299 --> 00:01:01,812
Brandon, who is from the Ocean Conservancy
here to talk about microfibers

21
00:01:01,872 --> 00:01:03,953
and give us a whole bunch of information
on it.

22
00:01:03,953 --> 00:01:08,237
And the best thing is, is there's hope
that we can actually stop it with just

23
00:01:08,397 --> 00:01:12,840
one single item. We're gonna talk about
that on today's episode of

24
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:14,442
the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

25
00:01:14,442 --> 00:01:18,525
Your weekly update on ocean news or
weekday,

26
00:01:18,525 --> 00:01:22,558
I guess, ocean news and ocean science and
ocean conservation,

27
00:01:22,558 --> 00:01:26,681
Monday to Friday. We give you all the
information that you need so that

28
00:01:26,681 --> 00:01:27,681
you can make better decisions.

29
00:01:27,866 --> 00:01:30,078
For the ocean. So if you like this type of
information,

30
00:01:30,078 --> 00:01:33,951
please feel free to follow the podcast on
your favorite podcast app

31
00:01:33,951 --> 00:01:39,045
so that you don't miss Monday's episode or
Tuesdays or Wednesdays

32
00:01:39,045 --> 00:01:43,108
or Thursdays or Fridays. We got lots of
great ~ information coming up

33
00:01:43,108 --> 00:01:47,172
for you this week or next week and the
next coming weeks and just all the time.

34
00:01:47,172 --> 00:01:49,854
It's gonna be amazing. I can't wait to
bring it to you.

35
00:01:49,854 --> 00:01:54,067
So let's talk about this interview because
this is the the the interesting part.

36
00:01:54,067 --> 00:01:57,300
Look, when we buy clothes, we don't really
think about how

37
00:01:57,848 --> 00:02:00,079
It affects the environment. We think about
fashion.

38
00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:01,199
There's a lot of things that, you know,

39
00:02:01,199 --> 00:02:03,150
you want to look good. You want to feel
good.

40
00:02:03,150 --> 00:02:04,999
And there's a lot of ways you can look at
fashion.

41
00:02:04,999 --> 00:02:07,651
There's a lot of ways you can look at
clothes and how we go about clothes.

42
00:02:07,651 --> 00:02:11,051
For me personally, I buy clothes like
usually every five years,

43
00:02:11,051 --> 00:02:13,032
maybe six years, or if it gets ripped,

44
00:02:13,032 --> 00:02:15,653
or if it gets stains, which actually
happens more than ever.

45
00:02:15,653 --> 00:02:18,784
But I try and decrease the amount of
clothes I buy just so that I don't have

46
00:02:18,784 --> 00:02:21,075
to worry about, you know, over polluting
or just,

47
00:02:21,075 --> 00:02:23,235
you know, just buying clothes for the sake
of buying clothes.

48
00:02:23,235 --> 00:02:25,656
There's one thing about buying clothes
because it looks nice.

49
00:02:25,978 --> 00:02:28,629
There's nothing buying clothes because you
need it and then you don't really need

50
00:02:28,629 --> 00:02:29,869
it for another five years. Now,

51
00:02:29,869 --> 00:02:33,430
I know some time some of you out there who
want to be a little

52
00:02:33,430 --> 00:02:35,901
bit more fashionable and want to have more
clothes.

53
00:02:35,901 --> 00:02:37,431
I get it. There's no judgment here.

54
00:02:37,431 --> 00:02:38,941
This is just my personal stance.

55
00:02:38,941 --> 00:02:42,773
I have I live with three young ~ three
young ladies,

56
00:02:42,773 --> 00:02:44,960
including my wife, and they buy it,

57
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,494
they have a lot of clothes. And it's and
it is what it is,

58
00:02:47,494 --> 00:02:52,065
and and they thrift a lot and they do a
lot of things to reduce their their impact

59
00:02:52,065 --> 00:02:55,116
on the ocean. But you know, th some of the
things that we don't talk about

60
00:02:55,116 --> 00:02:56,116
are microfiber.

61
00:02:56,321 --> 00:02:58,333
And just like no matter what clothing you
buy,

62
00:02:58,333 --> 00:02:59,584
whether you think you're buying,

63
00:02:59,584 --> 00:03:02,796
you know, something that's really good for
the environment or organic cotton

64
00:03:02,796 --> 00:03:05,868
and things like that, microfibers still
come off the shirts and they come

65
00:03:05,868 --> 00:03:10,021
off every washing cycle. And it comes off
in the wash and it gets into

66
00:03:10,021 --> 00:03:12,793
the environment. It goes through like your
wastewater treatment plant.

67
00:03:12,793 --> 00:03:17,197
And then sometimes it gets through there
or it gets caught in these like this gucky

68
00:03:17,197 --> 00:03:19,709
stuff that sometimes gets used for
fertilizer and stuff,

69
00:03:19,709 --> 00:03:21,060
and then it gets on agricultural land.

70
00:03:21,060 --> 00:03:22,881
There's all these different things that
can happen.

71
00:03:23,489 --> 00:03:25,170
and and it gets confusing and it gets,

72
00:03:25,170 --> 00:03:28,293
you know, you wonder what are the best
things that you can do to help,

73
00:03:28,293 --> 00:03:32,556
you know, reduce your impact from buying
all these clothes ~ and and

74
00:03:32,556 --> 00:03:33,813
you and washing them, right? Obviously,

75
00:03:33,813 --> 00:03:34,877
you're gonna wash your clothes.

76
00:03:34,877 --> 00:03:39,131
So Dr. Anya Brandon from the Ocean
Conservancy is here to tell

77
00:03:39,131 --> 00:03:41,602
us all about microfibers, the impacts,

78
00:03:41,602 --> 00:03:43,384
how it gets into the environment,

79
00:03:43,384 --> 00:03:45,785
and how to prevent it from getting into
the environment,

80
00:03:45,785 --> 00:03:49,098
which could which could reduce up to 90%
of the microfibers that get up.

81
00:03:49,472 --> 00:03:53,675
into the environment and cause
micropollution or microplastic pollution.

82
00:03:53,675 --> 00:03:56,357
because microfibers are a type of plastic
pollution.

83
00:03:56,357 --> 00:03:59,020
So we are going to be talking to to Anya.

84
00:03:59,020 --> 00:04:01,882
She ~ was fabulous. I can't wait to have
her back on.

85
00:04:01,882 --> 00:04:04,054
But here is the interview with Dr.

86
00:04:04,054 --> 00:04:07,036
Anya Brandon from the Ocean Conservancy
talking about microfibers,

87
00:04:07,036 --> 00:04:09,808
the effects and how to prevent them from
getting into the environment.

88
00:04:09,808 --> 00:04:12,881
So hopefully we can all prevent them as
well.

89
00:04:12,881 --> 00:04:14,582
Enjoy the interview and I'll talk to you
after.

90
00:04:14,916 --> 00:04:17,877
Hey Anya, welcome to the How to Protect
the Ocean podcast.

91
00:04:17,877 --> 00:04:20,226
Are you ready to talk about plastic
pollution?

92
00:04:21,093 --> 00:04:22,458
I sure am. Thanks for having me.

93
00:04:22,712 --> 00:04:26,833
You bet this is exciting. Although I don't
like we kind of assessed this before

94
00:04:26,833 --> 00:04:29,144
between both of us, we don't like plastic
pollution,

95
00:04:29,144 --> 00:04:33,085
but like talking about plastic pollution
because it's a pretty big issue around

96
00:04:33,085 --> 00:04:36,736
the world that I don't feel gets enough
attention.

97
00:04:36,736 --> 00:04:41,007
But I also think that the attention it
does get sometimes it gets kind

98
00:04:41,007 --> 00:04:43,818
of ~ manipulated into certain things,

99
00:04:43,818 --> 00:04:46,409
i.e. plastic straws and and and so forth,

100
00:04:46,409 --> 00:04:50,510
and really not knowing the bigger problem
of of plastic pollution.

101
00:04:50,510 --> 00:04:51,790
We're gonna get down to some.

102
00:04:51,930 --> 00:04:55,902
like microscopic like fibers and and
talking about a lot of things that

103
00:04:55,902 --> 00:04:59,886
we just don't know about plastic pollution
~ or we don't spend a lot

104
00:04:59,886 --> 00:05:02,728
of time on that. So I'm looking forward to
to talking about it.

105
00:05:02,728 --> 00:05:04,490
~ and and especially with you,

106
00:05:04,490 --> 00:05:05,811
Anya, who's an expert in this.

107
00:05:05,811 --> 00:05:07,933
And we're gonna have a a good time being
able to talk about that.

108
00:05:07,933 --> 00:05:10,895
But before we do, ~ Anya, why don't you
just let the audience know who

109
00:05:10,895 --> 00:05:12,056
you are and what you do.

110
00:05:12,910 --> 00:05:15,592
Great. Well, my name is Dr. Anya Brandon,

111
00:05:15,592 --> 00:05:19,724
and I am the Director of Plastics Policy
at Ocean Conservancy.

112
00:05:19,724 --> 00:05:24,887
So I lead a team of folks, and our whole
job

113
00:05:24,887 --> 00:05:29,620
is to try to prevent plastic from becoming
pollution in our ocean

114
00:05:29,620 --> 00:05:31,831
in the first place. So we work at the
state level,

115
00:05:31,831 --> 00:05:34,013
the federal level, the international
level,

116
00:05:34,013 --> 00:05:39,216
working on different policies to try to
tackle plastic pollution at its source.

117
00:05:40,004 --> 00:05:41,585
Love it. Okay, that's awesome.

118
00:05:41,585 --> 00:05:43,526
Now, now you have a like you mentioned,

119
00:05:43,526 --> 00:05:44,777
you're you're you're a doctor,

120
00:05:44,777 --> 00:05:47,989
you have a PhD in environmental
engineering from Stanford,

121
00:05:47,364 --> 00:05:48,364
Mm-hmm.

122
00:05:47,989 --> 00:05:51,972
no less. Like that's fairly a fairly good
university,

123
00:05:51,052 --> 00:05:52,052
Yeah.

124
00:05:51,972 --> 00:05:53,253
a fairly well-known university.

125
00:05:53,253 --> 00:05:57,896
~ and your your research really focused on
breaking down plastics.

126
00:05:57,896 --> 00:06:00,618
What pulled you from the lab bench,

127
00:06:00,618 --> 00:06:02,880
so to speak, to policy work?

128
00:06:03,578 --> 00:06:09,172
Yeah, great question. ~ I actually got my
start originally at an aquarium.

129
00:06:09,208 --> 00:06:10,303
~ so I was a I

130
00:06:09,570 --> 00:06:10,570
~ cool.

131
00:06:10,303 --> 00:06:13,174
was a volunteer at an aquarium where I
first learned about plastic

132
00:06:13,174 --> 00:06:14,695
and plastic pollution and was like,

133
00:06:14,695 --> 00:06:16,717
I I couldn't tell you what it was,

134
00:06:16,717 --> 00:06:21,260
but like that is it for me. That is the
the problem for my brain.

135
00:06:21,260 --> 00:06:24,902
~ and you're right, I took that all the
way through to a PhD where

136
00:06:24,902 --> 00:06:30,526
I studied plastic degrading bacteria to
try to solve this this huge global crisis.

137
00:06:30,362 --> 00:06:31,362
Mm.

138
00:06:30,526 --> 00:06:31,526
~

139
00:06:31,287 --> 00:06:32,287
and it was

140
00:06:32,097 --> 00:06:35,350
Awesome and the science is so interesting
and super cool.

141
00:06:35,350 --> 00:06:40,874
And I pretty quickly realized as I was
like coming towards an end that it

142
00:06:40,874 --> 00:06:46,089
was a drop and a drop and a drop in the
ocean in terms of what we need

143
00:06:46,089 --> 00:06:50,442
to tackle this issue. ~ and so I started
thinking through like how

144
00:06:50,442 --> 00:06:52,414
do you create real change? Like,

145
00:06:52,414 --> 00:06:56,597
how do you tackle a problem this big and
this important?

146
00:06:56,597 --> 00:06:59,800
~ and I stumbled on policy. ~ and

147
00:06:59,172 --> 00:07:00,172
Interesting.

148
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:00,951
it's you know.

149
00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:04,087
How we can do really big hard things
together.

150
00:07:03,971 --> 00:07:04,971
Yeah.

151
00:07:04,551 --> 00:07:07,653
I I really think that I've got a couple of
questions on that.

152
00:07:07,653 --> 00:07:10,974
first of all, ~ bacteria, you know,

153
00:07:10,974 --> 00:07:13,275
eating plastic, I guess is what we call
it.

154
00:07:13,275 --> 00:07:16,717
~ we keep seeing it and I keep getting
friends of mine who send

155
00:07:16,717 --> 00:07:19,218
me videos being like, hey, is this gonna
solve our problem?

156
00:07:19,218 --> 00:07:21,379
Like, is this where are we at?

157
00:07:21,379 --> 00:07:23,811
I know it maybe have been a while since
you've you've looked into it,

158
00:07:23,811 --> 00:07:28,642
but where are we at with this type of
either bacteria or some kind

159
00:07:28,642 --> 00:07:30,893
of biological agent to break down.

160
00:07:31,525 --> 00:07:35,980
plastic. Are we far from doing it at scale
or are these just more like

161
00:07:35,980 --> 00:07:38,318
are these just more micro scale type
things?

162
00:07:38,767 --> 00:07:40,048
Yeah, that's a great question.

163
00:07:40,048 --> 00:07:45,180
~ we are a little ways away from having it
be like a meaningful part

164
00:07:45,180 --> 00:07:46,941
of the solution for sure.

165
00:07:46,499 --> 00:07:47,499
Right.

166
00:07:46,941 --> 00:07:51,483
I mean, the research I finished my PhD or
I started my PhD almost like

167
00:07:51,483 --> 00:07:54,925
10 years ago now. So folks have been doing
this research for a while

168
00:07:52,282 --> 00:07:53,282
Yeah. Right.

169
00:07:54,925 --> 00:07:57,136
and like it's still ramping up.

170
00:07:57,136 --> 00:07:59,498
So we're getting closer and

171
00:07:58,951 --> 00:07:59,951
Yeah.

172
00:07:59,498 --> 00:08:04,470
~ you know, we're kind of also learning
about some of the drawbacks

173
00:08:04,470 --> 00:08:05,793
of this approach at the same time.

174
00:08:05,793 --> 00:08:07,462
Like it's never going to be able to

175
00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,282
tackle all of the plastic already out in
the environment.

176
00:08:11,282 --> 00:08:12,282
~

177
00:08:11,496 --> 00:08:12,496
Right. Right.

178
00:08:12,133 --> 00:08:13,133
but

179
00:08:12,483 --> 00:08:15,415
as a an alternative to, you know,

180
00:08:15,415 --> 00:08:17,043
recycling or

181
00:08:16,199 --> 00:08:17,199
Mm-hmm.

182
00:08:17,043 --> 00:08:19,618
a complementary system to recycling,

183
00:08:19,618 --> 00:08:24,472
maybe as something you can kind of help
treat water or wastewater

184
00:08:24,472 --> 00:08:25,723
or other things that have

185
00:08:24,658 --> 00:08:25,658
Mm.

186
00:08:25,723 --> 00:08:28,054
microplastics or plastic contaminants.

187
00:08:28,054 --> 00:08:30,416
I think we could get there, but

188
00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:31,300
Yeah.

189
00:08:31,056 --> 00:08:33,989
I'm certainly not holding my breath for
the next couple

190
00:08:33,510 --> 00:08:34,510
Right.

191
00:08:33,989 --> 00:08:34,989
of years.

192
00:08:34,490 --> 00:08:39,234
I feel like way in the future we're all
gonna have like a little machine

193
00:08:39,234 --> 00:08:43,648
we can put in our homes or apartments to
break all that down and it'll just turn

194
00:08:43,648 --> 00:08:45,099
into something that we can use.

195
00:08:45,099 --> 00:08:47,911
And and you know what I mean? That's for
some reason that's where

196
00:08:47,911 --> 00:08:49,482
my thought went with it eventually.

197
00:08:49,482 --> 00:08:50,482
I know we're way

198
00:08:49,950 --> 00:08:50,950
Yeah.

199
00:08:50,443 --> 00:08:53,825
far away from that, but ~ that would be
kind of cool.

200
00:08:53,825 --> 00:08:54,825
I think that's what I think

201
00:08:54,248 --> 00:08:55,248
Yeah.

202
00:08:54,706 --> 00:08:57,508
people think though. I think a lot of
people are thinking that like maybe

203
00:08:57,508 --> 00:09:00,080
we can have this, you know, tomorrow or
the next day,

204
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,080
you know.

205
00:09:00,625 --> 00:09:04,056
Yeah, I think a lot of times like one
thing that's challenging about those

206
00:09:04,056 --> 00:09:06,117
conversations is it's like, my gosh,

207
00:09:06,117 --> 00:09:08,487
this technology is going to come and save
us all.

208
00:09:08,487 --> 00:09:13,359
And and I too thought that. that is why I
did that research.

209
00:09:08,764 --> 00:09:11,848
Mm-hmm. Yes.

210
00:09:11,848 --> 00:09:13,787
Yeah.

211
00:09:13,359 --> 00:09:14,359
~

212
00:09:14,139 --> 00:09:15,539
and then you step back and you're like,

213
00:09:15,539 --> 00:09:19,330
wait, there's like other technology
options or other things that can save us.

214
00:09:19,330 --> 00:09:22,241
Like, what if instead of using all this
single-use plastic,

215
00:09:22,241 --> 00:09:24,582
we switch to reusables and you're just
like,

216
00:09:24,317 --> 00:09:25,317
Right.

217
00:09:24,812 --> 00:09:27,763
right, we don't need all that plastic in
the first place and it's

218
00:09:27,698 --> 00:09:28,698
Right.

219
00:09:28,263 --> 00:09:29,446
It's one of those things where it's like,

220
00:09:29,446 --> 00:09:35,369
Are we creating a technology for a problem
that we don't need to solve?

221
00:09:35,369 --> 00:09:36,922
You know? It's like you create these
little like

222
00:09:36,134 --> 00:09:37,134
Yeah.

223
00:09:36,922 --> 00:09:38,686
catch twenty two systems.

224
00:09:39,026 --> 00:09:40,897
For sure. And I think there are like
there's,

225
00:09:40,897 --> 00:09:42,318
you know, the ocean cleanup project.

226
00:09:42,318 --> 00:09:45,221
There's other projects out there that kind
of sell that,

227
00:09:45,221 --> 00:09:49,824
hey, we can clean up the ocean pretty
quickly when that's not really what

228
00:09:49,824 --> 00:09:53,226
we need to do. It's almost like we need to
stop it at its source in a way,

229
00:09:53,226 --> 00:09:56,369
with and I think that's where the you
probably got led to policy.

230
00:09:56,369 --> 00:10:00,101
But I I that's my other question I have
from your first answer was it it

231
00:10:00,541 --> 00:10:04,594
it takes a lot. I I I talked to a lot of
people who are under ~ finished,

232
00:10:04,594 --> 00:10:05,594
just finished their undergrads.

233
00:10:06,046 --> 00:10:12,091
undergraduate ~ degrees and and graduate
degrees and and they they don't know where

234
00:10:12,091 --> 00:10:14,793
to go with their with their career because
obviously it's

235
00:10:14,793 --> 00:10:19,877
you know ocean conservation marine biology
ocean engineering environmental

236
00:10:19,877 --> 00:10:22,929
engineering they're huge huge subject
matters and that you can go in

237
00:10:22,929 --> 00:10:26,642
a lot of different fields and so I guess
like you know through your

238
00:10:26,642 --> 00:10:29,815
PhD you're probably you're you're it's an
exercise of thinking as well

239
00:10:29,815 --> 00:10:33,558
as doing and so you're probably thinking a
lot of of this big picture stuff

240
00:10:33,558 --> 00:10:34,927
but you know as a

241
00:10:35,207 --> 00:10:37,318
know there's still lot going on in a PhD.

242
00:10:37,318 --> 00:10:40,108
It's a it's a basically a full-time job
plus more.

243
00:10:40,108 --> 00:10:41,279
~ in in

244
00:10:40,700 --> 00:10:41,700
Mm-hmm.

245
00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:46,790
doing that. What like what was the
mechanism that you could like give

246
00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:52,082
~ advice for current graduate students who
are going through the same thing that

247
00:10:52,922 --> 00:10:56,573
led you to this like sort of like a bigger
picture of like I want

248
00:10:56,094 --> 00:10:57,094
Yeah.

249
00:10:56,573 --> 00:10:58,524
to help more. How can I help more?

250
00:10:58,524 --> 00:11:01,064
Like what led you down that path of
thinking,

251
00:11:01,064 --> 00:11:02,885
policy is a good because when I'd

252
00:11:03,203 --> 00:11:04,488
introduce policy to a lot of people,

253
00:11:04,488 --> 00:11:07,671
they're like, I don't I don't really know
what that is or what does that mean,

254
00:11:07,671 --> 00:11:08,671
you know?

255
00:11:08,210 --> 00:11:12,293
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those are some of my
favorite conversations to have with folks

256
00:11:12,293 --> 00:11:13,894
is like how do you kind of broaden

257
00:11:14,011 --> 00:11:15,011
Yeah.

258
00:11:14,014 --> 00:11:15,014
that

259
00:11:14,354 --> 00:11:18,807
horizon of like what you can do with the
concept of science and like

260
00:11:18,807 --> 00:11:23,641
a science degree. you know, I think my
number one piece of advice

261
00:11:23,641 --> 00:11:27,683
for folks in undergrad or or grad school
that are kind of going through this

262
00:11:27,683 --> 00:11:33,688
is to use the time to take a couple extra
classes that might seem outside your

263
00:11:33,688 --> 00:11:35,209
wheelhouse. ~

264
00:11:34,556 --> 00:11:35,556
Mm-hmm.

265
00:11:35,249 --> 00:11:36,850
science communication is

266
00:11:37,274 --> 00:11:39,436
Always going to pay dividends,

267
00:11:39,436 --> 00:11:43,286
being able to talk and communicate about
your science and make it relevant

268
00:11:43,286 --> 00:11:47,082
to other folks. I think I was introduced
in those styles of classes

269
00:11:47,082 --> 00:11:51,976
to the other audiences for science and
like how interesting those different

270
00:11:51,976 --> 00:11:55,930
audiences are in science and what

271
00:11:55,517 --> 00:11:56,517
Mm-hmm.

272
00:11:55,930 --> 00:11:59,172
you can do when you better translate your
science for them.

273
00:11:59,172 --> 00:12:02,315
~ And then I took, you know, a couple
other classes.

274
00:12:02,315 --> 00:12:05,958
I took a class on like the theory of
change and how we have.

275
00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:09,821
Tackled whole hard problems. I took a
class on public policy.

276
00:12:09,821 --> 00:12:12,783
I took a class on a couple other things
just to kind of,

277
00:12:12,783 --> 00:12:15,464
you know, pique my interest in different
places.

278
00:12:15,464 --> 00:12:17,555
~ and then ultimately, you know,

279
00:12:17,555 --> 00:12:20,187
I decided to do this fellowship because
it's it's a one year,

280
00:12:20,187 --> 00:12:23,669
it's almost like a mini postdoc ~
following a PhD.

281
00:12:23,669 --> 00:12:24,904
Cause I was like, hey, if I hate it,

282
00:12:24,904 --> 00:12:28,191
it's only a year. ~ and I got lucky,

283
00:12:28,191 --> 00:12:30,212
I loved it and kind of stuck with it.

284
00:12:29,273 --> 00:12:30,273
Yeah.

285
00:12:30,212 --> 00:12:31,212
~

286
00:12:31,063 --> 00:12:32,694
but for folks who are interested in,

287
00:12:32,694 --> 00:12:33,694
you know, like

288
00:12:33,256 --> 00:12:34,691
How do you get your hands dirty,

289
00:12:34,691 --> 00:12:37,521
get more applied to the type of work
you're doing?

290
00:12:37,521 --> 00:12:38,865
I think it's a really great option.

291
00:12:39,355 --> 00:12:41,707
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I I I I
agree.

292
00:12:41,707 --> 00:12:45,781
And ~ from that, you know, going to the
speaking of of policy,

293
00:12:45,781 --> 00:12:50,586
~ you've got a you had a really
interesting fellowship ~ at Senator

294
00:12:49,767 --> 00:12:50,767
Mm.

295
00:12:50,586 --> 00:12:52,597
Merkley's office. Can you talk a little
bit about that?

296
00:12:52,597 --> 00:12:57,602
What was the fellowship and ~ you know
what like how how did that science
actually

297
00:12:57,602 --> 00:12:59,984
help you with policy, like having that
science background

298
00:12:59,984 --> 00:13:00,984
and engineering background?

299
00:13:01,436 --> 00:13:03,437
Yeah, it was an awesome fellowship
program.

300
00:13:03,437 --> 00:13:07,628
I was the AGU AAAS Congressional Science
Fellow,

301
00:13:07,628 --> 00:13:10,579
which is part of this larger

302
00:13:07,643 --> 00:13:08,643
Sounds fancy.

303
00:13:10,579 --> 00:13:13,619
cohort of science fellows. There's like a
bunch of different types

304
00:13:13,619 --> 00:13:15,660
of these folks that go to the Hill.

305
00:13:15,660 --> 00:13:21,312
And the whole goal of the program is to
get scientists into policy,

306
00:13:21,312 --> 00:13:23,342
at least for a little bit. So some folks

307
00:13:23,024 --> 00:13:24,024
Yeah.

308
00:13:23,342 --> 00:13:27,893
do it as like a sabbatical, some folks do
it straight out of grad school,

309
00:13:27,893 --> 00:13:29,794
some folks do it after working for a
while.

310
00:13:30,442 --> 00:13:33,364
~ and the goal is to that you not the
goal,

311
00:13:33,364 --> 00:13:36,427
you essentially become a staffer for a
year in

312
00:13:35,952 --> 00:13:36,952
Right.

313
00:13:36,427 --> 00:13:38,809
a senator's office, a representative's
office,

314
00:13:38,809 --> 00:13:43,072
kind of you name it. there's also folks
who do it in the federal government,

315
00:13:43,072 --> 00:13:48,307
at a at an agency, ~ and you are quite
literally bringing the science

316
00:13:48,307 --> 00:13:51,619
to bear to help these ~ you know,

317
00:13:51,619 --> 00:13:54,041
political offices make legislative

318
00:13:53,244 --> 00:13:54,244
Mm-hmm.

319
00:13:54,041 --> 00:13:55,041
decisions.

320
00:13:55,447 --> 00:13:57,778
But you're also learning about the
policymaking problem.

321
00:13:57,778 --> 00:14:00,691
Like we're you're in the sausage making ~
as it's

322
00:13:59,973 --> 00:14:00,973
Yes.

323
00:14:00,691 --> 00:14:06,226
happening. And so you get to really learn
like how these two worlds interact

324
00:14:06,226 --> 00:14:08,798
and how to make them interact better,

325
00:14:08,798 --> 00:14:09,798
ideally.

326
00:14:09,286 --> 00:14:10,286
Right.

327
00:14:09,319 --> 00:14:10,319
And that's kind

328
00:14:09,723 --> 00:14:13,062
of like the theory there is like if you
bring more scientists to the table,

329
00:14:13,062 --> 00:14:17,365
they will understand it more, can tell
their fellow scientists how to engage
more.

330
00:14:17,365 --> 00:14:20,988
~ and also you just get better outcomes
because you have folks

331
00:14:21,289 --> 00:14:23,100
who know about climate change.

332
00:14:23,408 --> 00:14:26,086
Working on the policies to tackle climate
change,

333
00:14:25,027 --> 00:14:26,027
Yes.

334
00:14:26,086 --> 00:14:27,086
for example.

335
00:14:27,381 --> 00:14:29,814
That's a big difference, especially these
days.

336
00:14:29,814 --> 00:14:34,191
It seems like sometimes what's proposed in
the legislation in any country,

337
00:14:34,191 --> 00:14:37,616
sometimes you wonder like, where are these
people getting their information from?

338
00:14:37,616 --> 00:14:38,616
Right?

339
00:14:38,236 --> 00:14:40,767
Yeah, and and I'm not naive, you know,

340
00:14:40,767 --> 00:14:45,439
science is only part of the equation when
these decisions are being made.

341
00:14:43,781 --> 00:14:45,991
Of course. Yeah.

342
00:14:45,439 --> 00:14:46,449
~

343
00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:51,241
but given that you should have some really
smart scientists there

344
00:14:51,241 --> 00:14:54,673
to advocate for that part. ~ otherwise,

345
00:14:51,582 --> 00:14:53,999
Yeah. A hundred percent.

346
00:14:54,693 --> 00:14:57,784
you know, that part becomes even a f a
smaller fraction of

347
00:14:57,307 --> 00:15:00,068
Yep. yeah.

348
00:14:57,784 --> 00:15:00,095
the decision making process. so

349
00:15:00,095 --> 00:15:05,437
it's, you know, incredibly valuable to
have folks who kind of know the
background,

350
00:15:05,437 --> 00:15:06,598
know the science,

351
00:15:05,660 --> 00:15:06,660
Yeah.

352
00:15:06,958 --> 00:15:07,958
can help.

353
00:15:07,996 --> 00:15:09,864
you know, push things in the right
direction.

354
00:15:10,491 --> 00:15:12,042
And what would from that fellowship,

355
00:15:12,042 --> 00:15:13,944
obviously I'm sure you learned a ton.

356
00:15:13,944 --> 00:15:15,165
What would

357
00:15:14,439 --> 00:15:15,439
Mm-hmm.

358
00:15:15,165 --> 00:15:18,248
be like the biggest thing that you that
you got out of that?

359
00:15:18,248 --> 00:15:19,319
Coming out of that, you're like,

360
00:15:19,319 --> 00:15:21,511
~ this is always gonna stick with me.

361
00:15:22,176 --> 00:15:24,306
gosh, what a great question. ~

362
00:15:24,827 --> 00:15:29,798
you know, I think I learned that you know,

363
00:15:29,798 --> 00:15:31,849
science is part of the equation.

364
00:15:31,849 --> 00:15:34,089
So that's important. ~

365
00:15:32,059 --> 00:15:33,614
Yep. Yep.

366
00:15:34,089 --> 00:15:39,191
and that folks are really trying their
best and that they might not know what
they

367
00:15:39,191 --> 00:15:40,871
don't know. ~ and

368
00:15:40,337 --> 00:15:41,337
Right.

369
00:15:40,871 --> 00:15:46,453
I think for scientists that's really
important because we publish papers or

370
00:15:46,453 --> 00:15:51,414
~ go to conferences and we we put our work
out there and assume.

371
00:15:52,027 --> 00:15:55,658
It is going to have the impact we want it
to.

372
00:15:55,658 --> 00:16:00,078
~ but we need to go the extra mile to make
sure that's the case.

373
00:16:00,078 --> 00:16:03,300
We need to put it into bullet points or a
one-pager

374
00:16:02,299 --> 00:16:03,299
Mm-hmm.

375
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:09,621
or a blog or a press release or something
that is more ~ digestible

376
00:16:09,621 --> 00:16:10,621
by other folks,

377
00:16:09,906 --> 00:16:10,906
Yeah.

378
00:16:10,541 --> 00:16:12,312
especially in the policy world,

379
00:16:12,312 --> 00:16:14,912
~ if we want to have that impact,

380
00:16:14,912 --> 00:16:18,970
because they don't know that there's some
new paper out in nature,

381
00:16:18,970 --> 00:16:21,014
like they don't have a nature
subscription.

382
00:16:21,445 --> 00:16:23,419
Right. Right.

383
00:16:21,468 --> 00:16:23,481
That's not their field. Like how would
they

384
00:16:23,481 --> 00:16:29,049
know about that? so really kind of going
that extra mile to make sure that

385
00:16:29,049 --> 00:16:34,146
~ you can't get left behind or your
science doesn't get left behind.

386
00:16:34,146 --> 00:16:35,368
It's part of the equation.

387
00:16:35,741 --> 00:16:38,082
Yeah, and I I I agree. As a communications
person,

388
00:16:38,082 --> 00:16:40,184
I also work as an ocean communications
manager.

389
00:16:40,184 --> 00:16:46,537
And I feel as though we we have to do that
in any kind like whoever your target

390
00:16:46,537 --> 00:16:48,168
audience is, whether that's, you know,

391
00:16:48,168 --> 00:16:50,750
politicians or regulators and
policymakers,

392
00:16:50,750 --> 00:16:53,432
but also general public, you know,

393
00:16:53,432 --> 00:16:56,073
depending on ages, depending on
demographics and stuff,

394
00:16:56,073 --> 00:16:58,335
you have to speak the language that they
speak.

395
00:16:58,335 --> 00:17:00,456
You have to put it in terms that they can
understand.

396
00:17:00,456 --> 00:17:02,297
And and we can definitely do that.

397
00:17:02,545 --> 00:17:05,650
You know, I think it just a little more
training s for some of us to get.

398
00:17:05,650 --> 00:17:09,175
Like it took me a while to get rid of the
acronyms into the science speak.

399
00:17:09,175 --> 00:17:11,749
I'm like, What do you mean you don't want
to know about ANOVAs or a KITAS?

400
00:17:11,749 --> 00:17:13,482
Like, what do you mean you don't know?

401
00:17:13,482 --> 00:17:14,482
Like

402
00:17:13,948 --> 00:17:14,948
my gosh.

403
00:17:15,439 --> 00:17:19,180
Okay. You know, they do a good job with
scientists training us not

404
00:17:18,491 --> 00:17:20,806
Yeah. Right.

405
00:17:19,180 --> 00:17:20,880
to use acronyms and yeah, it takes

406
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,701
little practice. No one does this for
public policy folks.

407
00:17:24,701 --> 00:17:26,032
My first day

408
00:17:24,997 --> 00:17:25,997
That's crazy, right?

409
00:17:26,032 --> 00:17:31,283
on the hill, I just had a running Excel
sheet of all the acronyms I heard

410
00:17:31,283 --> 00:17:34,144
to like go Google afterwards because

411
00:17:33,576 --> 00:17:34,576
Ha ha ha.

412
00:17:34,524 --> 00:17:38,385
no one tells you that there's a million
and two acronyms and tells them

413
00:17:36,957 --> 00:17:40,337
~ I could imagine. Yeah.

414
00:17:38,385 --> 00:17:41,616
not to use them. So we could I think

415
00:17:40,337 --> 00:17:41,740
It's almost like a s

416
00:17:42,021 --> 00:17:46,223
it's almost like a science in itself in
terms of coming up with those acronyms

417
00:17:46,223 --> 00:17:47,684
to make them memorable, right?

418
00:17:48,186 --> 00:17:49,186
Yeah,

419
00:17:48,667 --> 00:17:53,603
I de I think of part of my job as like
almost a translator of translating science

420
00:17:52,806 --> 00:17:53,806
Yes.

421
00:17:53,603 --> 00:17:58,599
into policy, but also policy back into how
it can help the science and

422
00:17:57,551 --> 00:17:58,551
Yes.

423
00:17:58,999 --> 00:18:01,192
speaking both languages is very tricky.

424
00:18:01,582 --> 00:18:04,746
Absolutely. Now after your fellowship,

425
00:18:04,746 --> 00:18:08,530
was that a a year fellowship or was that a
year fellowship?

426
00:18:08,530 --> 00:18:11,944
~ did you go to the Ocean Conservancy
right after that?

427
00:18:12,316 --> 00:18:16,685
Yep. I I ~ yeah, just after a little bit
over a year went

428
00:18:16,685 --> 00:18:21,305
and joined Ocean Conservancy to basically
help us build out this plastics policy

429
00:18:21,305 --> 00:18:22,305
program.

430
00:18:22,405 --> 00:18:25,568
And so what attracted so obviously you've
done the policy.

431
00:18:25,568 --> 00:18:26,568
What

432
00:18:25,906 --> 00:18:26,906
Mm-hmm.

433
00:18:26,348 --> 00:18:31,454
attracted you to work at Ocean Conservancy
with this type

434
00:18:31,654 --> 00:18:34,587
of ~ like with this type of program?

435
00:18:35,484 --> 00:18:36,794
Yeah, that's a great question.

436
00:18:36,794 --> 00:18:43,236
one, I'm an ocean nerd and wanted to go
back and and work specifically on the
ocean,

437
00:18:43,236 --> 00:18:48,178
so that was an easy fit. but I was really
attracted to the mission

438
00:18:48,178 --> 00:18:51,979
~ and how we carry out that mission.

439
00:18:51,979 --> 00:18:57,440
you know, we are committed to a healthy
ocean and a thriving planet forever

440
00:18:57,500 --> 00:18:59,381
and for everyone. ~

441
00:18:58,747 --> 00:18:59,747
Mm-hmm.

442
00:18:59,381 --> 00:19:02,842
and just that sales pitch was really
compelling to me.

443
00:19:03,742 --> 00:19:08,344
and how we carry out that work by uniting
~ people,

444
00:19:08,344 --> 00:19:13,036
policy, and science to kind of achieve

445
00:19:12,250 --> 00:19:13,250
Mm-hmm.

446
00:19:13,036 --> 00:19:18,718
those outcomes. So it's kind of pulled all
the pieces together that most motivated

447
00:19:18,718 --> 00:19:22,089
me. ~ yeah, and it's it's been a great
fit.

448
00:19:22,089 --> 00:19:23,610
I feel like I have my dream job.

449
00:19:22,435 --> 00:19:25,106
I can imagine. Yeah, absolutely.

450
00:19:25,106 --> 00:19:28,198
Well, and w and you know, it talks about
plastics and and you're looking

451
00:19:28,198 --> 00:19:30,849
at plastics policy. And I kind of
mentioned this before,

452
00:19:30,849 --> 00:19:35,310
but I think when when I say plastic
pollution to people or ocean plastic

453
00:19:34,785 --> 00:19:35,785
Mm-hmm.

454
00:19:35,310 --> 00:19:39,893
pollution, I th I feel like there's
specific items that pop up in their head
based

455
00:19:39,893 --> 00:19:45,085
on just I guess the w the way media has
trained us to think about plastics,

456
00:19:45,085 --> 00:19:46,986
you know, single use plastic bags.

457
00:19:47,735 --> 00:19:51,798
single use plastic cups like coffee cups
and and containers like that that

458
00:19:51,798 --> 00:19:55,290
are everyday use. But then we get the
plastic straws that,

459
00:19:55,290 --> 00:19:59,703
you know, ~ we'll talk about earlier this
week on the podcast to introduce this kind

460
00:19:59,703 --> 00:20:02,755
of thing. ~ but I feel like, you know,

461
00:20:02,755 --> 00:20:05,777
that's like and and plastic ball water
bottles as well,

462
00:20:05,777 --> 00:20:07,198
right? The single use water bottles.

463
00:20:07,198 --> 00:20:11,901
~ I think that's what people think about a
a lot of the time.

464
00:20:11,901 --> 00:20:16,054
and then when I when we introduce other
types of materials,

465
00:20:16,054 --> 00:20:17,054
I'm like, is that

466
00:20:16,992 --> 00:20:21,757
plastic. Like I'm talking microfibers that
we get from washing machines.

467
00:20:21,757 --> 00:20:23,038
And and you know,

468
00:20:22,122 --> 00:20:23,122
Mm-hmm.

469
00:20:23,379 --> 00:20:28,314
how does that fit in the picture and and
why do these microfibers matter?

470
00:20:29,237 --> 00:20:32,429
Yeah, such a great question. and you're
right.

471
00:20:32,429 --> 00:20:37,302
It is so easy to think about the really
visible plastics that we see on the beach.

472
00:20:37,302 --> 00:20:40,524
~ your water bottles, your food wrappers,

473
00:20:40,524 --> 00:20:44,266
~ you know, all all those single use
plastics,

474
00:20:44,266 --> 00:20:45,266
which are also

475
00:20:44,448 --> 00:20:45,448
Yeah.

476
00:20:45,107 --> 00:20:47,688
a huge part of the problem and and a big
part of my

477
00:20:46,835 --> 00:20:47,835
Right, of course.

478
00:20:47,688 --> 00:20:53,672
job. and we forget that there are so many
other uses

479
00:20:53,672 --> 00:20:55,413
and applications for plastic. I mean.

480
00:20:55,975 --> 00:20:58,726
I'm I'm quite literally surrounded by
plastics at the moment,

481
00:20:58,726 --> 00:21:02,688
as I'm sure you are as well. ~ and one of
them is our clothes.

482
00:21:02,688 --> 00:21:03,828
Like we are making

483
00:21:03,114 --> 00:21:04,114
Yeah.

484
00:21:03,968 --> 00:21:05,449
more clothes than ever before,

485
00:21:05,449 --> 00:21:09,111
and we are making more clothes out of
plastics than ever before.

486
00:21:09,111 --> 00:21:13,893
So nearly 70% of syn textiles ~

487
00:21:13,032 --> 00:21:14,032
Yeah.

488
00:21:13,893 --> 00:21:15,823
broadly are made out of synthetics.

489
00:21:15,823 --> 00:21:21,106
So nylon and rayon and polyester,

490
00:21:21,106 --> 00:21:24,057
like these are all other names for
plastics.

491
00:21:24,412 --> 00:21:25,412
Mm-hmm.

492
00:21:24,717 --> 00:21:25,717
~

493
00:21:25,038 --> 00:21:28,985
and so that is a very big part of the
equation as well.

494
00:21:28,985 --> 00:21:31,970
Sorry, my cat has decided to come join the
podcast.

495
00:21:31,946 --> 00:21:35,357
Cats are always welcome. We are a pet
friendly podcast,

496
00:21:31,970 --> 00:21:37,600
~ She gets a little

497
00:21:35,357 --> 00:21:37,478
so no problem. ~

498
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:38,600
fobo.

499
00:21:38,339 --> 00:21:39,629
yeah, well, I don't blame her.

500
00:21:39,629 --> 00:21:41,330
She's beautiful. Like she's got I

501
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:41,960
Yeah.

502
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:42,841
saw her come off the couch and she's like,

503
00:21:42,841 --> 00:21:45,242
I want my close-up, and she got her
close-up.

504
00:21:45,242 --> 00:21:50,064
~ now like so this is interesting because
I don't think people I don't think

505
00:21:50,064 --> 00:21:52,485
we realize even every time I hear the
stats,

506
00:21:52,485 --> 00:21:58,958
like you don't realize how how many of
these fibers get get put out.

507
00:21:58,958 --> 00:21:59,958
Like so

508
00:22:00,437 --> 00:22:04,819
you know, looking at the numbers from
studies of microfibers released

509
00:22:04,819 --> 00:22:10,081
in a single load of laundry can you know
range from you know a few hundred
thousand,

510
00:22:10,081 --> 00:22:12,322
which by the way, that's a ton,

511
00:22:12,322 --> 00:22:13,662
right? Like not a ton in

512
00:22:12,865 --> 00:22:13,865
Mm.

513
00:22:13,662 --> 00:22:15,383
terms of weight, but that's a lot,

514
00:22:15,383 --> 00:22:19,325
up to 18 million. Like that's insane.

515
00:22:19,325 --> 00:22:22,006
And it depends on the fabric, depends on
the machine type.

516
00:22:22,006 --> 00:22:24,917
So, like, why is that range so much,

517
00:22:24,917 --> 00:22:27,682
like so wide? And what does it depend on?

518
00:22:28,383 --> 00:22:32,577
Yeah. ~ so let's start, and maybe I I we
can go back and maybe

519
00:22:32,577 --> 00:22:33,707
I should have answered this before,

520
00:22:33,707 --> 00:22:36,220
but what are these microplastic fibers?

521
00:22:34,142 --> 00:22:36,764
No worries. Yes, please, yeah.

522
00:22:36,220 --> 00:22:37,220
They

523
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:41,264
are shedding from all of our clothes that
we just said are are made out of plastics.

524
00:22:41,264 --> 00:22:44,687
~ and so they shed when we make them,

525
00:22:44,687 --> 00:22:47,349
wear them, wash them, like you name it.

526
00:22:47,349 --> 00:22:50,161
this kind of happens with all of our
plastics,

527
00:22:50,161 --> 00:22:51,161
like as they

528
00:22:50,431 --> 00:22:51,431
Mm-hmm.

529
00:22:50,982 --> 00:22:54,395
get older or degraded or UV or you know,

530
00:22:54,395 --> 00:22:56,997
physical rubbing. ~

531
00:22:57,497 --> 00:23:00,169
they will release little bits of plastics.

532
00:23:00,169 --> 00:23:01,810
And so that's the same with our clothes.

533
00:23:01,810 --> 00:23:06,074
We know that washing machines where
there's hot water and a lot

534
00:23:06,074 --> 00:23:09,336
of agitation and soap does this a lot.

535
00:23:09,677 --> 00:23:10,677
Yeah.

536
00:23:10,057 --> 00:23:14,023
And so you're right, like even that the
low at range estimates of like

537
00:23:14,023 --> 00:23:16,241
a few hundred thousand ~

538
00:23:15,670 --> 00:23:16,670
Mm-hmm.

539
00:23:16,281 --> 00:23:21,365
is still a ton of microplastics to be
shedding for a single load of laundry.

540
00:23:21,365 --> 00:23:23,737
~ One of the reasons that

541
00:23:24,109 --> 00:23:28,920
that range is so large in these different
studies is that we are still working

542
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,862
on ~ standardized test methods to like
compare apples to apples here.

543
00:23:33,862 --> 00:23:39,723
~ And so it you know comes down to ~ when
people are doing these tests,

544
00:23:39,723 --> 00:23:43,274
are they measuring the same size of
particles?

545
00:23:43,274 --> 00:23:46,355
Like we are talking micro, micro scale.

546
00:23:46,355 --> 00:23:52,207
So a micro plastic fiber can be up to a
hundred times thinner than the width

547
00:23:52,207 --> 00:23:53,207
of a human hair.

548
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:54,720
Wow.

549
00:23:54,034 --> 00:23:55,034
so

550
00:23:54,304 --> 00:23:57,447
are you capturing all the way down to
those like fine,

551
00:23:57,006 --> 00:23:58,006
Right.

552
00:23:57,447 --> 00:24:01,389
fine scale microplastics? ~ and then you
know,

553
00:24:01,389 --> 00:24:04,952
it's even silly things like how much
clothes are you washing at once,

554
00:24:05,261 --> 00:24:06,261
Mm-hmm.

555
00:24:05,272 --> 00:24:06,272
how hot

556
00:24:05,872 --> 00:24:07,574
are you washing them, things like that.

557
00:24:07,574 --> 00:24:11,236
So kind of that's all the factors that can
lead into the range.

558
00:24:11,236 --> 00:24:17,220
~ but I think the the top line number here
is that

559
00:24:17,601 --> 00:24:20,963
our washing machines are shedding a ton of
microplastics.

560
00:24:21,682 --> 00:24:24,585
without any of us maybe thinking about it
or realizing it.

561
00:24:24,942 --> 00:24:26,863
We don't see it. So we don't really,

562
00:24:26,863 --> 00:24:30,465
really get it, right? In terms of like
what happens to them.

563
00:24:30,465 --> 00:24:31,956
Where do they go? So where do they go?

564
00:24:31,956 --> 00:24:37,379
Like are they I know some washing machines
will have like a like they'll catch some,

565
00:24:37,379 --> 00:24:39,030
like they have like a filter for it,

566
00:24:38,127 --> 00:24:40,969
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Correct.

567
00:24:39,030 --> 00:24:41,131
but not a lot. and I don't know

568
00:24:41,131 --> 00:24:44,053
if that's I know with some brands they
make it part of it.

569
00:24:44,053 --> 00:24:46,895
and others it's not really involved.

570
00:24:46,895 --> 00:24:50,377
So if say there's no filter, where

571
00:24:49,785 --> 00:24:50,785
Mm.

572
00:24:50,377 --> 00:24:52,618
do all these microfibers like is it

573
00:24:52,770 --> 00:24:55,797
Does it end up in your like in a dryer
like a lint kind of thing?

574
00:24:55,797 --> 00:24:59,757
Or is it does it go right out into your
like I guess sewage or

575
00:24:59,757 --> 00:25:01,000
or wherever that goes? Wastewater.

576
00:25:01,795 --> 00:25:06,307
Yeah, great question. And so the the
washing machines that do have these
filters,

577
00:25:06,307 --> 00:25:08,599
which you are right, far too few,

578
00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:09,599
especially here in the

579
00:25:08,767 --> 00:25:09,767
Yeah.

580
00:25:09,459 --> 00:25:14,742
United States, those filters act just like
a lint trap in your dryer to catch

581
00:25:14,742 --> 00:25:19,265
a lot of those little fibers. All of that
lint is also microplastic fibers.

582
00:25:19,265 --> 00:25:20,265
~

583
00:25:19,342 --> 00:25:20,342
Mm.

584
00:25:19,875 --> 00:25:22,186
so just keep that one in mind too.

585
00:25:22,186 --> 00:25:23,467
~ but if you

586
00:25:22,380 --> 00:25:23,380
Mm-hmm.

587
00:25:23,467 --> 00:25:29,430
don't have a filter, yeah, it flows right
out with the rest of our wastewater into

588
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:30,851
a wastewater treatment plant.

589
00:25:31,127 --> 00:25:32,127
You know, depending

590
00:25:31,277 --> 00:25:32,277
Yeah.

591
00:25:31,708 --> 00:25:35,551
on where you live. ~ depending again on
where you live and what kind

592
00:25:35,551 --> 00:25:37,372
of wastewater treatment plant you have,

593
00:25:37,372 --> 00:25:41,075
~ they can be pretty effective at
capturing them.

594
00:25:41,075 --> 00:25:44,909
~ so depends on on where you are,

595
00:25:44,909 --> 00:25:45,909
but you know, some

596
00:25:45,367 --> 00:25:46,367
Yeah.

597
00:25:45,699 --> 00:25:52,055
of the the microplastic fibers will flow
out into whatever water body that receives

598
00:25:52,055 --> 00:25:53,726
that water. ~

599
00:25:52,792 --> 00:25:53,792
Yeah.

600
00:25:53,726 --> 00:25:59,111
but the majority of them end up trapped or
caught in something called the biosolids.

601
00:25:59,578 --> 00:26:01,919
Which is just the solid residue from

602
00:26:00,048 --> 00:26:01,860
~ yeah.

603
00:26:01,919 --> 00:26:07,410
wastewater treatment. ~ the challenge here
is those biosolids are chock full

604
00:26:07,470 --> 00:26:13,732
of really valuable nutrients. so we often
use them as a fertilizer replacement.

605
00:26:13,732 --> 00:26:17,333
Great for the climate, making fertilizers
really,

606
00:26:17,333 --> 00:26:20,853
really climate intensive, and you have all
these nutrients already.

607
00:26:20,853 --> 00:26:25,785
~ but that means when you're applying them
to lands as a fertilizer replacement,

608
00:26:25,785 --> 00:26:26,785
we are essentially

609
00:26:27,221 --> 00:26:32,544
moving microplastics from one place to
another rather than like actually
capturing

610
00:26:32,544 --> 00:26:37,016
them. ~ and so that's why we have been
thinking more and more about what

611
00:26:37,016 --> 00:26:41,169
we can do upstream. So at the point source
of that washing

612
00:26:40,458 --> 00:26:41,458
Mm-hmm.

613
00:26:41,169 --> 00:26:42,169
machine.

614
00:26:42,580 --> 00:26:46,602
Wow. That's really yeah, that's I feel
like I'm starting to see like where

615
00:26:46,602 --> 00:26:49,214
you can catch these things as you as you
go along.

616
00:26:49,214 --> 00:26:51,656
And and I've I've been part of studies
locally.

617
00:26:51,656 --> 00:26:55,248
I live in in Ontario, Canada, and ~ where
we looked at,

618
00:26:55,248 --> 00:26:59,151
you know, upgrades to specific wastewater
treatment plants in areas that were

619
00:26:58,531 --> 00:26:59,531
Mm.

620
00:26:59,411 --> 00:27:01,673
getting larger and larger in population
and stuff.

621
00:27:01,673 --> 00:27:07,097
And then you start to see these secondary
and tertiary ~ types of filtration.

622
00:27:07,097 --> 00:27:09,118
But then even then, like I've seen like

623
00:27:09,442 --> 00:27:10,993
I know we're not even talking about
pharmaceuticals,

624
00:27:10,993 --> 00:27:14,193
but I've seen how pharmaceuticals get into
the water wastewater and all that kind

625
00:27:14,193 --> 00:27:15,193
of stuff. And

626
00:27:14,798 --> 00:27:15,798
Yeah.

627
00:27:15,104 --> 00:27:18,966
but to think the amount that gets through
in that range,

628
00:27:18,966 --> 00:27:22,428
even even hundreds of thousands of
microfibers getting out,

629
00:27:22,428 --> 00:27:26,249
and say they get it past that wastewater
treatment plant into the rivers

630
00:27:26,249 --> 00:27:29,871
or streams or whatever, they get put out
lakes getting out into the ocean.

631
00:27:29,871 --> 00:27:32,392
And that's just per load of laundry,

632
00:27:32,392 --> 00:27:34,773
you know. So anywhere where they're doing
laundry,

633
00:27:34,773 --> 00:27:37,282
~ and and if you think about it from a

634
00:27:37,654 --> 00:27:39,525
Even just a North American perspective,

635
00:27:39,525 --> 00:27:42,938
where I would imagine many people have
laundry machines and or have access

636
00:27:42,938 --> 00:27:46,300
to laundry machines. Not like I don't know
what the percentage

637
00:27:46,300 --> 00:27:47,871
of laundry machines that do or do not.

638
00:27:47,871 --> 00:27:49,672
I'm sure it ranges in every different
region,

639
00:27:49,672 --> 00:27:53,685
every different country, but that's a lot
of material getting into

640
00:27:54,165 --> 00:27:57,498
the oceans or even to like biocells that
get onto fertilizers and

641
00:27:57,498 --> 00:28:02,471
and stuff like that. What damage do
microfibers do once they

642
00:28:02,471 --> 00:28:05,543
get into the environment? So say they get
into river stream,

643
00:28:05,543 --> 00:28:06,744
lake, ocean, whatever.

644
00:28:07,235 --> 00:28:12,589
that might be what like I we know so with
some of the micro plastics say not fibers.

645
00:28:12,589 --> 00:28:14,631
I don't know if it's same. ~ but you know,

646
00:28:14,631 --> 00:28:17,233
there's chemicals that come off of these
these

647
00:28:16,377 --> 00:28:17,377
Mm-hmm.

648
00:28:17,233 --> 00:28:20,866
chem these like the surface area is small
because they're micro and then they

649
00:28:20,866 --> 00:28:22,647
get ingested by animals and they get that.

650
00:28:22,647 --> 00:28:26,450
Is that the same sort of process for
microfibers or is it a little bit
different?

651
00:28:27,169 --> 00:28:29,120
Yeah, yeah, spot on. You don't even need
me here.

652
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:31,171
you've got

653
00:28:29,225 --> 00:28:30,307
Ha ha ha.

654
00:28:31,171 --> 00:28:34,804
it. ~ that is absolutely one of the
problems.

655
00:28:34,804 --> 00:28:38,787
you know, we know these microplastics,

656
00:28:38,787 --> 00:28:43,400
~ yeah, microplastic fibers are are just
another type of microf plastic.

657
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:44,400
So a lot

658
00:28:43,661 --> 00:28:44,661
Right.

659
00:28:44,141 --> 00:28:45,512
of those same issues apply.

660
00:28:45,585 --> 00:28:50,409
yeah, you're spot on. They are made with
and ~ contain a lot

661
00:28:50,409 --> 00:28:52,331
of different synthetic chemicals.

662
00:28:52,331 --> 00:28:55,554
those chemicals are not bound,

663
00:28:55,554 --> 00:28:58,956
they're they're not chemically attached to
the plastic.

664
00:28:57,996 --> 00:28:58,996
Mm-hmm.

665
00:28:59,337 --> 00:29:00,728
If we want to get really fancy,

666
00:29:00,728 --> 00:29:02,880
there's no like carbon hydrogen bonds,

667
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,902
like there's no bonds between these
chemicals and the plastic,

668
00:29:05,902 --> 00:29:08,885
which means if they enter a different
environment,

669
00:29:08,885 --> 00:29:13,399
have UV exposure, get ingested into like
an acidic.

670
00:29:14,054 --> 00:29:15,495
stomach type condition,

671
00:29:14,306 --> 00:29:15,841
Yeah. Right.

672
00:29:16,354 --> 00:29:19,456
they can kind of be released out,

673
00:29:19,456 --> 00:29:24,738
~ which you know makes them a bioavailable
or available for

674
00:29:24,398 --> 00:29:25,398
Yeah.

675
00:29:24,738 --> 00:29:30,550
consumption by all of these different ~
organisms out in the wildlife or

676
00:29:30,550 --> 00:29:32,381
out in the ocean or other places.

677
00:29:32,381 --> 00:29:38,123
We also know ~ that in ingesting
microplastics generally

678
00:29:38,914 --> 00:29:41,825
is associated with reduced food
consumption.

679
00:29:42,527 --> 00:29:46,208
~ reduced energy for growth and altered
gene expressions,

680
00:29:46,208 --> 00:29:50,069
depending on you know the wildlife we're
talking about out in the ocean.

681
00:29:50,069 --> 00:29:53,298
~ and then of course, when it comes to
human health,

682
00:29:53,298 --> 00:29:59,422
like we are still learning lots about the
potential impacts on on our health.

683
00:29:59,422 --> 00:30:05,723
but we have already seen ~ enough to be a
little bit concerned.

684
00:30:05,723 --> 00:30:09,884
we know that the microplastics and the
chemicals they carry with them

685
00:30:10,165 --> 00:30:11,945
can cause cell death and kind of.

686
00:30:12,047 --> 00:30:18,009
toxic effects. ~ They also can carry
bacteria and pathogens and kind

687
00:30:18,009 --> 00:30:23,622
of other that basically act as vectors for
these other contaminants of concern.

688
00:30:23,622 --> 00:30:27,473
And microplastic fibers in particular,

689
00:30:27,473 --> 00:30:30,905
because of their, you know, weird shape
and size,

690
00:30:30,905 --> 00:30:32,785
through these tiny like needle-like

691
00:30:31,961 --> 00:30:32,961
Yeah.

692
00:30:32,785 --> 00:30:36,667
plastics, ~ are uniquely good at getting

693
00:30:37,137 --> 00:30:41,309
~ past getting once ingested,

694
00:30:41,309 --> 00:30:42,309
kind of

695
00:30:41,999 --> 00:30:45,510
Weaseling their way into actual cells and
staying there.

696
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:52,073
So when we look for microplastics in the
tissues of seafood or,

697
00:30:52,073 --> 00:30:56,375
you know, razorback clams, as is the the
case with one of my colleagues here

698
00:30:56,375 --> 00:30:59,116
at Ocean Conservancy, which did her PhD
on,

699
00:30:59,116 --> 00:31:01,797
or even in the human body, we

700
00:31:01,156 --> 00:31:02,156
Mm-hmm.

701
00:31:02,257 --> 00:31:07,319
disproportionately find these microplastic
fibers because

702
00:31:06,709 --> 00:31:07,709
Interesting.

703
00:31:07,319 --> 00:31:09,980
that actual shape makes them a little bit
better at,

704
00:31:09,980 --> 00:31:11,671
you know, getting stuck places.

705
00:31:12,333 --> 00:31:16,114
Yeah, one another stat that kind of got me
was from IUCN.

706
00:31:16,114 --> 00:31:21,276
It estimates textile, so microfibers make
up about thirty-five percent

707
00:31:21,517 --> 00:31:25,338
of the primary microplastics that enter
the ocean.

708
00:31:25,826 --> 00:31:26,826
Mm-hmm.

709
00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:29,180
That's a huge number. And I I know when I
start

710
00:31:28,474 --> 00:31:29,474
Mm.

711
00:31:29,180 --> 00:31:30,610
to sell this to people, they're like,

712
00:31:30,610 --> 00:31:32,001
well, where's that number come from?

713
00:31:32,001 --> 00:31:34,902
And and it is it actually like that
number?

714
00:31:34,902 --> 00:31:38,503
And and like how do we how do we mentally
deal with that?

715
00:31:38,503 --> 00:31:40,704
That's 35%. That's a that's a big chunk.

716
00:31:41,411 --> 00:31:45,994
Yeah. ~ and that's just within the
microplastics category.

717
00:31:45,994 --> 00:31:47,254
So we think overall

718
00:31:46,435 --> 00:31:47,435
Right.

719
00:31:47,254 --> 00:31:54,188
microplastics ~ entering the ocean are
about 10% of all plastic pollution
entering

720
00:31:54,188 --> 00:31:58,241
the ocean. ~ that's also tricky because
plastic

721
00:31:56,203 --> 00:31:57,835
Okay. Yeah.

722
00:31:58,241 --> 00:32:01,102
pollution and like all those single use
plastics we talked about

723
00:32:01,102 --> 00:32:04,994
are basically future microplastics once
they are out in the ocean.

724
00:32:02,848 --> 00:32:04,829
Yes. Because they break down. Yeah.

725
00:32:04,829 --> 00:32:05,829
Yeah.

726
00:32:04,994 --> 00:32:06,776
~

727
00:32:06,776 --> 00:32:08,927
maybe a a a dark way of looking at them,

728
00:32:08,927 --> 00:32:09,927
but

729
00:32:09,055 --> 00:32:10,055
Yeah.

730
00:32:09,773 --> 00:32:11,664
Makes it important to prevent them at the
source,

731
00:32:11,664 --> 00:32:13,275
of course. ~

732
00:32:12,023 --> 00:32:13,023
Absolutely.

733
00:32:13,276 --> 00:32:18,229
so this particular number, ~ like a lot of
the numbers that are looking at,

734
00:32:18,229 --> 00:32:20,380
you know, how much are entering the ocean,

735
00:32:20,380 --> 00:32:22,802
how much are out in the ocean to begin
with,

736
00:32:22,802 --> 00:32:25,504
come from different modeled estimates.

737
00:32:25,504 --> 00:32:30,467
So IUCN took kind of two different
modeling approaches and compared them

738
00:32:30,467 --> 00:32:32,499
and we're like, ~ they're pretty similar.

739
00:32:32,499 --> 00:32:36,441
So that's like pretty good. ~ one of the
estimates or one of

740
00:32:36,441 --> 00:32:38,743
the modeled approaches was basically
looking at

741
00:32:39,403 --> 00:32:45,415
~ estimates of washing, like number of
laundry cycles per capita

742
00:32:45,415 --> 00:32:49,766
and standard wash amounts and regional
differences for how many synthetics

743
00:32:49,766 --> 00:32:51,516
are in the wash, things like that,

744
00:32:51,516 --> 00:32:56,268
versus the other ~ model was based more on
just production

745
00:32:56,268 --> 00:32:59,079
and purchasing of textiles regionally.

746
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:02,480
And they kind of average those two
approaches then.

747
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,961
And they they found that they weren't that
different in scale.

748
00:33:07,322 --> 00:33:08,322
Rather,

749
00:33:07,445 --> 00:33:08,445
Mm-hmm.

750
00:33:07,923 --> 00:33:12,186
the bigger differences was in distribution
of them,

751
00:33:11,587 --> 00:33:12,587
Okay.

752
00:33:12,226 --> 00:33:14,408
which once they're out in the ocean,

753
00:33:14,408 --> 00:33:16,099
we know kind of can move around.

754
00:33:16,099 --> 00:33:17,570
~

755
00:33:16,375 --> 00:33:17,375
Yeah, for sure.

756
00:33:17,891 --> 00:33:23,725
and I'll say we continue to learn so much
~ about primary microplastics,

757
00:33:23,725 --> 00:33:28,059
where they're coming from, different types
of microplastics generally.

758
00:33:28,059 --> 00:33:30,361
~ you know, we are constantly,

759
00:33:30,361 --> 00:33:34,685
as our microplastics tools and research
get better.

760
00:33:35,065 --> 00:33:38,707
We are finding more sources that we didn't
see before,

761
00:33:38,707 --> 00:33:41,449
higher concentrations, higher volumes.

762
00:33:41,449 --> 00:33:42,470
~

763
00:33:41,475 --> 00:33:42,475
Yeah.

764
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:48,734
so you know, this number is absolutely
real and defensible and

765
00:33:48,163 --> 00:33:49,163
Yeah.

766
00:33:49,014 --> 00:33:52,636
is part of like a growing body of research
that's still kind of trying

767
00:33:52,636 --> 00:33:54,598
to slowly make progress towards,

768
00:33:54,598 --> 00:33:59,381
you know, what is the scale and scope of
this massive problem.

769
00:33:59,628 --> 00:34:04,439
Yeah, for sure. Let's dive in a little bit
more to the problem and then we'll kind

770
00:34:04,439 --> 00:34:06,252
of get into some of the solutions.

771
00:34:06,252 --> 00:34:10,525
~ it it's it's a it's you know,

772
00:34:10,525 --> 00:34:15,579
I always I equate this very similar to ~
to like seafood

773
00:34:15,579 --> 00:34:17,280
and buying sustainable seafood,

774
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,121
right? You go up to a counter,

775
00:34:19,121 --> 00:34:21,883
you maybe ask the person behind the
counter some questions,

776
00:34:21,883 --> 00:34:23,094
and depending on their knowledge,

777
00:34:23,094 --> 00:34:24,195
depending on where they're coming from,

778
00:34:24,195 --> 00:34:25,526
like if you're at a supermarket,

779
00:34:25,526 --> 00:34:28,708
sometimes it's a 16-year-old kid who's
doesn't know anything and

780
00:34:29,048 --> 00:34:32,231
He's just trying to make he or she or they
are just trying to make their

781
00:34:32,231 --> 00:34:34,413
way through high school and stuff like
that.

782
00:34:34,413 --> 00:34:36,595
And they may not know a lot of the stuff.

783
00:34:36,595 --> 00:34:39,227
And so it's difficult to understand what's
sustainable,

784
00:34:39,227 --> 00:34:41,239
what's not sustainable. And that was
that's my point.

785
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,301
With if I'm buying a shirt,

786
00:34:44,301 --> 00:34:46,273
you know, there's there's I mean,

787
00:34:46,273 --> 00:34:48,215
you've seen it. There's ads for
everything.

788
00:34:48,215 --> 00:34:50,987
Everybody wants to go, every celebrity is
into fashion.

789
00:34:50,987 --> 00:34:53,089
They have their own lines and you know,

790
00:34:53,089 --> 00:34:55,471
every podcast has their own merchandise,

791
00:34:55,471 --> 00:34:56,471
and you know, and it's

792
00:34:55,727 --> 00:34:56,727
Mm-hmm.

793
00:34:56,580 --> 00:34:58,942
Part of the branding is part of the
marketing.

794
00:34:58,942 --> 00:35:02,315
~ it's something that I've struggled with
as my own podcast to be like,

795
00:35:02,315 --> 00:35:06,549
hey, do you guys have merch? I don't
because I worry that I'm just perpetuating

796
00:35:06,829 --> 00:35:10,822
the microfibers. Cause then it's like you
have to get the specific kind,

797
00:35:10,822 --> 00:35:13,165
and we don't know if that's great and and
stuff like that.

798
00:35:12,837 --> 00:35:13,837
Yeah.

799
00:35:13,165 --> 00:35:17,678
So it ~ like when what what is your
suggestion?

800
00:35:17,678 --> 00:35:20,571
Cause I know there's a policy campaign
that you guys have,

801
00:35:20,571 --> 00:35:21,762
~ or the campaign,

802
00:35:21,039 --> 00:35:22,039
Mm.

803
00:35:21,762 --> 00:35:23,904
I guess, like not safe for wash campaign.

804
00:35:24,293 --> 00:35:28,070
Can you tell us about this campaign and
how it helps people ~ like like myself

805
00:35:28,070 --> 00:35:31,015
to like walk up and be like, should I be
buying this as

806
00:35:31,015 --> 00:35:32,598
an environmentally cautious person?

807
00:35:33,261 --> 00:35:37,162
Yeah, ~ well thanks. Thanks for the
question and bringing up this campaign.

808
00:35:37,162 --> 00:35:38,482
We've had a lot of fun with it.

809
00:35:38,482 --> 00:35:42,914
so yes, the campaign is NSFW, not safe for
wash.

810
00:35:42,914 --> 00:35:44,724
So a little play on words there.

811
00:35:44,724 --> 00:35:49,401
~ all props to our comms team who came up
with that one.

812
00:35:49,401 --> 00:35:54,827
even us science communicators are not not
quite at their level yet,

813
00:35:54,827 --> 00:35:57,321
but one day. Yeah.

814
00:35:55,754 --> 00:35:57,112
You're getting there. Yeah, yeah.

815
00:35:57,321 --> 00:36:01,641
~ the the real goal of our campaign is

816
00:36:02,085 --> 00:36:05,407
To just start building a little bit of
that understanding

817
00:36:05,407 --> 00:36:09,490
and awareness for everybody that this is
happening,

818
00:36:09,490 --> 00:36:12,772
this is out there, and that there are
solutions.

819
00:36:12,772 --> 00:36:14,453
And we can get more into that.

820
00:36:14,453 --> 00:36:19,607
You know, we don't want to add to this
overwhelming sense of crisis that,

821
00:36:19,607 --> 00:36:21,338
you know, my gosh, there's

822
00:36:19,722 --> 00:36:21,239
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

823
00:36:21,338 --> 00:36:23,029
microplastics, there's plastic pollution.

824
00:36:23,029 --> 00:36:25,931
Like, what are we doing? ~ we have
answers,

825
00:36:25,931 --> 00:36:28,002
especially for this particular problem.

826
00:36:27,853 --> 00:36:28,853
Right.

827
00:36:28,002 --> 00:36:29,002
Like there

828
00:36:28,523 --> 00:36:31,505
is technology out there available today.

829
00:36:31,650 --> 00:36:32,650
Mm-hmm.

830
00:36:32,025 --> 00:36:37,607
that can help tackle up to 90% of
microplastic fibers coming from our wash.

831
00:36:37,607 --> 00:36:38,787
~

832
00:36:38,029 --> 00:36:39,029
Yeah.

833
00:36:38,787 --> 00:36:44,028
And having folks kind of step back and
think a little bit more about

834
00:36:44,028 --> 00:36:46,969
~ where they're getting clothes from,

835
00:36:46,969 --> 00:36:48,510
how many clothes they're purchasing,

836
00:36:48,510 --> 00:36:51,280
all of that is just like an extra side
benefit,

837
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,281
right? I mean, it's kind of like thinking
about,

838
00:36:53,281 --> 00:36:58,052
~ right, I could go buy a water bottle or
I could bring the water bottle from home.

839
00:36:58,052 --> 00:37:00,833
It's trying to build in those reflexes.

840
00:37:00,846 --> 00:37:01,846
Mm-hmm.

841
00:37:01,541 --> 00:37:06,142
~ that can slowly add up to really large
scale change

842
00:37:06,142 --> 00:37:09,824
~ while acknowledging this is not just on
all of us.

843
00:37:09,824 --> 00:37:13,765
Like this is individual actions help move
the needle.

844
00:37:13,765 --> 00:37:19,987
~ but ultimately we need kind of these
systemic changes that comes from policy

845
00:37:20,087 --> 00:37:22,848
forcing corporations and you know,

846
00:37:22,848 --> 00:37:27,089
the manufacturers to kind of help us make
better choices ultimately.

847
00:37:27,555 --> 00:37:31,306
Yeah, and so like so this this California
act that passed,

848
00:37:31,306 --> 00:37:34,527
~ I guess S B fifty four, it's

849
00:37:31,565 --> 00:37:34,360
Mm-hmm. Yes.

850
00:37:34,848 --> 00:37:38,359
deemed like the strongest plastics
legislation in the country.

851
00:37:38,359 --> 00:37:40,580
So obviously a big this is what you're
talking about in terms

852
00:37:40,580 --> 00:37:44,491
of systemic solutions where you get policy
in place to actually do this.

853
00:37:44,491 --> 00:37:47,022
What does that what does the bill actually
do?

854
00:37:47,703 --> 00:37:53,446
Yeah. ~ so SB fifty-four is one of ~ seven
state bills

855
00:37:53,446 --> 00:37:57,979
now ~ that are something called extended
producer responsibility

856
00:37:57,999 --> 00:38:02,991
or EPR Jargon City. ~ basically that

857
00:38:01,528 --> 00:38:02,528
Ha ha ha.

858
00:38:02,991 --> 00:38:09,235
means that it is holding the people who
are making all of our plastics financially

859
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:09,100
Mm-hmm.

860
00:38:09,235 --> 00:38:13,407
responsible for helping manage all of
those plastics they're creating.

861
00:38:13,407 --> 00:38:16,649
~ so the idea is that if I am selling

862
00:38:17,579 --> 00:38:20,971
Anya's trinkets, ~ I I package it up,

863
00:38:20,971 --> 00:38:26,415
I decide to use extra plastic film and I
triple wrap it and whatever.

864
00:38:26,415 --> 00:38:29,968
That's gonna be really expensive for me
because I have

865
00:38:29,443 --> 00:38:30,443
Mm-hmm.

866
00:38:29,968 --> 00:38:34,361
to then manage all of that extra packaging
at the end of life.

867
00:38:34,361 --> 00:38:35,611
So all the recycling

868
00:38:34,669 --> 00:38:35,669
Mm-hmm.

869
00:38:35,611 --> 00:38:37,673
costs for that packaging, the collection,

870
00:38:37,673 --> 00:38:42,366
the transportation. Whereas if Anya's
trinket steps back and says,

871
00:38:42,366 --> 00:38:46,409
actually, this can go into a reusable
packaging.

872
00:38:46,892 --> 00:38:47,892
Mm.

873
00:38:47,065 --> 00:38:48,065
Then I don't

874
00:38:47,525 --> 00:38:51,046
have to pay any fees or I pay much lower
fees.

875
00:38:51,046 --> 00:38:56,516
~ it kind of forces producers to think
through those kind

876
00:38:56,516 --> 00:39:00,710
of other costs that right now we all pay
for,

877
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:01,368
Right. Yeah.

878
00:39:00,710 --> 00:39:01,740
whether it's through

879
00:39:01,740 --> 00:39:04,971
our local taxes or just through our trash
bills.

880
00:39:05,219 --> 00:39:06,219
Yeah.

881
00:39:05,585 --> 00:39:09,553
~ and it's not really on us whether or
not.

882
00:39:10,286 --> 00:39:15,309
All of the plastics on the shelves have
gotten way more complicated and way harder

883
00:39:14,705 --> 00:39:15,705
my gosh.

884
00:39:15,309 --> 00:39:17,591
to recycle over the last several years.

885
00:39:17,591 --> 00:39:18,591
We're

886
00:39:17,761 --> 00:39:18,761
Yeah.

887
00:39:18,171 --> 00:39:21,954
just the ones paying for it. And so it's
kind of this mechanism

888
00:39:21,954 --> 00:39:25,436
to make everybody pay their fair share ~

889
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:25,600
Mm-hmm.

890
00:39:25,436 --> 00:39:27,838
and talk to producers and, you know,

891
00:39:27,838 --> 00:39:30,439
those companies in a language that they
understand,

892
00:39:30,439 --> 00:39:32,411
which is dollars and cents, right?

893
00:39:32,411 --> 00:39:34,722
They're not gonna do things out of the
kindness of their own heart.

894
00:39:32,770 --> 00:39:37,622
Yeah. Nope. Yeah.

895
00:39:34,722 --> 00:39:38,565
They have shareholders, they have fiscal
responsibilities.

896
00:39:38,895 --> 00:39:41,950
But if you make it a financial obligation,

897
00:39:41,950 --> 00:39:44,634
then they'll start to really move the
needle

898
00:39:44,878 --> 00:39:45,878
Right.

899
00:39:45,355 --> 00:39:48,139
and start investing in what we all want,

900
00:39:48,139 --> 00:39:50,403
which is less single-use plastics,

901
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:50,763
Yeah. Yeah.

902
00:39:50,403 --> 00:39:51,403
more

903
00:39:51,114 --> 00:39:53,427
reuse, more sustainable options,

904
00:39:53,427 --> 00:39:54,427
all of those great outcomes.

905
00:39:55,118 --> 00:40:00,271
So the incentive for these producers is to
and and and people selling this

906
00:40:00,271 --> 00:40:03,600
the material, whatever they're s whatever
product they're selling is so they don't

907
00:40:03,290 --> 00:40:04,290
Mm.

908
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:08,075
have pay a fee at the end because of the
the end of product or end of life

909
00:40:08,075 --> 00:40:11,117
of the of the product of the material that
you're packaging it all in.

910
00:40:11,117 --> 00:40:13,268
They could actually take that money
instead,

911
00:40:13,268 --> 00:40:18,541
invest it into a new sort of maybe supply
chain or part of that process

912
00:40:18,681 --> 00:40:22,523
and eventually pay less because you don't
have to pay that extra what

913
00:40:22,523 --> 00:40:24,034
I call incentive, but basically

914
00:40:24,468 --> 00:40:28,121
tax which nobody likes to pay ~ and then
and then put it into there.

915
00:40:28,121 --> 00:40:31,644
That's that's brilliant. ~ and I think
it's it's good.

916
00:40:31,644 --> 00:40:34,587
I'm sure a lot of people didn't like it
off the a lot of business owners didn't
like

917
00:40:34,587 --> 00:40:38,000
it at the beginning, but it probably makes
it cheaper at the end for them,

918
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,923
not only from the incentive, but usually
when for the most part,

919
00:40:41,923 --> 00:40:45,607
the upfront cost is a lot, but then at the
end they end up they end

920
00:40:45,607 --> 00:40:49,890
up making more profit because they're
spending less money on on new packaging,

921
00:40:49,890 --> 00:40:51,722
right? Yeah.

922
00:40:50,337 --> 00:40:51,898
Absolutely. You know, they're

923
00:40:51,898 --> 00:40:56,411
going to long term hopefully switch to
more recyclable packaging,

924
00:40:56,411 --> 00:41:01,545
more reusable packaging. They will pay
less for that ~ packaging.

925
00:41:01,545 --> 00:41:04,787
They are also all working together to do
this.

926
00:41:04,787 --> 00:41:05,787
So you don't have

927
00:41:05,091 --> 00:41:06,091
Yeah.

928
00:41:05,698 --> 00:41:09,841
that like, you know, competitive
disadvantage of trying to be the good

929
00:41:09,841 --> 00:41:14,854
one who changes first, but having to like
go solo and and build

930
00:41:14,854 --> 00:41:16,275
the system by yourself.

931
00:41:16,632 --> 00:41:17,632
Right.

932
00:41:17,997 --> 00:41:18,997
and

933
00:41:18,857 --> 00:41:19,857
you know, at the end of the day,

934
00:41:19,797 --> 00:41:24,080
it's gonna save all of us a bunch of money
because we have all been paying

935
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:26,140
Yeah. Absolutely.

936
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,320
for this for the last, you know,

937
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,441
50 plus years

938
00:41:26,441 --> 00:41:30,500
of having recycling. And so ~ we can
better use,

939
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:32,024
you know, we can save money on our,

940
00:41:32,024 --> 00:41:33,695
you know, trash bills and and

941
00:41:33,404 --> 00:41:34,404
Yeah.

942
00:41:33,915 --> 00:41:38,457
taxes and hopefully use that for other
things that are,

943
00:41:38,457 --> 00:41:42,139
you know, also super needed or helpful for
the environment.

944
00:41:42,139 --> 00:41:46,782
~ so yeah, I think it it's a real common
sense policy that we've seen,

945
00:41:46,782 --> 00:41:47,782
you know,

946
00:41:47,548 --> 00:41:52,171
most of your Canadian provinces have it or
or will have it in the next year or two,

947
00:41:52,171 --> 00:41:53,602
I believe. ~

948
00:41:53,083 --> 00:41:54,083
Yeah.

949
00:41:53,762 --> 00:41:59,012
seven states have passed these types of
laws just for plastics and packaging.

950
00:41:59,012 --> 00:42:03,039
I mean, there's like a hundred for other
types of materials,

951
00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:06,311
you know, mattresses and pharmaceuticals
and paint

952
00:42:05,499 --> 00:42:06,499
Mm-hmm.

953
00:42:06,311 --> 00:42:10,654
and carpet, you know, things that are just
hard to manage at the end of their life.

954
00:42:10,654 --> 00:42:11,654
It's it's

955
00:42:10,833 --> 00:42:11,833
Yeah.

956
00:42:11,195 --> 00:42:12,796
pretty standard practice to be like,

957
00:42:12,796 --> 00:42:15,037
hey, you guys are the ones putting this
out on the market.

958
00:42:15,037 --> 00:42:16,037
You have to help

959
00:42:15,998 --> 00:42:17,345
Clean up after yourselves.

960
00:42:17,905 --> 00:42:21,507
I mean, that's I feel like that should be
the policy for every type

961
00:42:21,507 --> 00:42:25,089
of product that that's put out from oil
and gas all the way to the clothes that

962
00:42:25,089 --> 00:42:28,121
we wear. I'm happy to say, as you
mentioned,

963
00:42:28,121 --> 00:42:30,313
a lot of our provinces are coming up with
the same thing.

964
00:42:30,313 --> 00:42:34,715
Our federal government has come up with ~
has basically said that

965
00:42:34,776 --> 00:42:40,189
any kind of plastic is toxic. And so there
is this these bills where we've we've

966
00:42:40,189 --> 00:42:42,400
banned single use plastic, certain types
of single,

967
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:43,501
I think it's like six of them.

968
00:42:43,795 --> 00:42:44,795
Mm-hmm.

969
00:42:43,815 --> 00:42:44,815
that you can't

970
00:42:44,385 --> 00:42:46,687
use and we're already starting to see the
like takeout containers

971
00:42:46,687 --> 00:42:48,588
and things like that, which is which is
great.

972
00:42:48,588 --> 00:42:51,630
It got challenged by the chemical
industry,

973
00:42:51,630 --> 00:42:52,671
but it got upheld

974
00:42:52,062 --> 00:42:53,062
Mm-hmm.

975
00:42:52,671 --> 00:42:57,584
thanks to a lot of partners ~ and NGOs and
things like that to fight that bill,

976
00:42:57,584 --> 00:42:58,755
which was great, and the government.

977
00:42:58,755 --> 00:43:03,939
and we're starting to see like a registry
be started ~ so that they're tracking

978
00:43:03,939 --> 00:43:05,750
where these is where this end of life is.

979
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:08,902
And I think we're gonna start to see that
hopefully in the near future.

980
00:43:08,902 --> 00:43:11,674
~ there's lots of stuff going on in the
world right now,

981
00:43:11,674 --> 00:43:13,205
so I don't know where the priority is.

982
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:14,500
But I think

983
00:43:13,662 --> 00:43:14,662
Mm-hmm.

984
00:43:14,201 --> 00:43:18,273
that's it. It's it's it's hopeful to to
see ~ what happens.

985
00:43:18,273 --> 00:43:20,645
before I go into this, my next question,

986
00:43:20,645 --> 00:43:22,887
I want to just revert back to the filter
solution.

987
00:43:22,887 --> 00:43:27,901
~ we know that a lot of ~ brands don't
come out with like the washing machine
brands

988
00:43:27,901 --> 00:43:30,983
and and things don't come out with the
actual filter on them.

989
00:43:30,983 --> 00:43:36,997
Is there a way for people to like purchase
the filter and mount

990
00:43:36,997 --> 00:43:39,289
it on easily into their own washer?

991
00:43:40,038 --> 00:43:45,041
Absolutely. ~ there are a bunch of these
different filter options that

992
00:43:45,041 --> 00:43:49,103
are available as like a retrofit or an
external addition.

993
00:43:49,103 --> 00:43:52,175
~ so I have one of them. I'm looking
forward

994
00:43:51,655 --> 00:43:52,655
Yeah.

995
00:43:52,175 --> 00:43:54,226
to trying out a second one later this
year.

996
00:43:54,226 --> 00:43:55,226
~

997
00:43:54,300 --> 00:43:55,300
Nice.

998
00:43:54,786 --> 00:43:56,327
it was really easy to install.

999
00:43:56,327 --> 00:44:00,609
They have kind of uniform piping that's
kind of the same piping as everything
else.

1000
00:44:00,609 --> 00:44:03,571
~ I put it right next to my washing
machine.

1001
00:44:03,571 --> 00:44:07,313
You have a line that goes in and a line
that goes out and just keeps going

1002
00:44:07,313 --> 00:44:09,554
out with my wastewater. ~ and it is

1003
00:44:10,386 --> 00:44:16,231
Quite literally the same as like a dryer
lint sheet or ~ dryer trap.

1004
00:44:14,693 --> 00:44:17,678
Okay. So you just change you just empty it
every once in a while.

1005
00:44:17,832 --> 00:44:19,313
So you empty it every once in a while.

1006
00:44:19,313 --> 00:44:22,496
The one I'm currently using is pretty big,

1007
00:44:22,496 --> 00:44:25,599
and so I haven't had to empty it for like
two months now,

1008
00:44:24,504 --> 00:44:26,394
yeah. Nice. Okay.

1009
00:44:26,438 --> 00:44:30,983
which is awesome. Some of the other ones
you empty more frequently,

1010
00:44:30,983 --> 00:44:33,725
but it's like you know, they're even
smaller,

1011
00:44:32,945 --> 00:44:35,288
Just based on the size. Yeah. Yep.

1012
00:44:33,725 --> 00:44:35,787
easier to empty. ~

1013
00:44:35,787 --> 00:44:39,170
some have come up with this like mailback
program where it's

1014
00:44:39,358 --> 00:44:41,459
canister and you mail back the canister,

1015
00:44:41,459 --> 00:44:43,420
they send you a clean canister.

1016
00:44:43,327 --> 00:44:46,234
~ interesting. Yeah.

1017
00:44:43,420 --> 00:44:46,971
~ so there's different options and lots of
different technologies

1018
00:44:46,971 --> 00:44:51,903
out there. ~ and it's great. And you know,

1019
00:44:51,903 --> 00:44:54,941
right now it's pretty limited to the folks
like me who want to raise their hand

1020
00:44:54,941 --> 00:44:57,615
and be like, I know about this problem and
want to

1021
00:44:56,997 --> 00:44:57,997
Yeah.

1022
00:44:57,615 --> 00:45:03,648
tackle it, as opposed to making it as
common as those lint traps on a dryer.

1023
00:45:03,303 --> 00:45:04,303
Right.

1024
00:45:04,218 --> 00:45:08,680
And so that's really the you know the goal
of this campaign is to get folks

1025
00:45:09,073 --> 00:45:12,356
Asking, why is this not more common and
how can we

1026
00:45:11,900 --> 00:45:12,900
Yeah.

1027
00:45:12,356 --> 00:45:17,610
make it more common? ~ and ultimately the
answer is it's gonna require policy.

1028
00:45:17,610 --> 00:45:22,234
because again, folks aren't doing things
out of the kindness of their heart alone.

1029
00:45:22,234 --> 00:45:25,937
So, how can we help give them that little
bit of a nudge to push them

1030
00:45:25,937 --> 00:45:27,699
in the right direction ~

1031
00:45:27,398 --> 00:45:28,398
Yeah.

1032
00:45:27,699 --> 00:45:31,141
with policy that says, hey, by this date,

1033
00:45:31,141 --> 00:45:36,816
please sell at least 10% of all of your
washing machines with this type of filter?

1034
00:45:37,074 --> 00:45:38,074
Great, let's

1035
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:38,190
Right.

1036
00:45:37,635 --> 00:45:41,127
make it 30%, let's make it 50% over time,

1037
00:45:41,127 --> 00:45:43,140
kind of just like we've done with,

1038
00:45:43,140 --> 00:45:46,243
you know, energy star requirements or or
other

1039
00:45:45,831 --> 00:45:46,831
Yeah.

1040
00:45:46,243 --> 00:45:49,886
products of saying, hey, we are tackling a
new problem.

1041
00:45:49,886 --> 00:45:50,886
Let's do

1042
00:45:50,151 --> 00:45:51,151
Mm-hmm.

1043
00:45:50,707 --> 00:45:53,870
this all together. Let's slowly phase in
this requirement.

1044
00:45:54,589 --> 00:45:57,690
And this is great because just reading off
some of the stats,

1045
00:45:57,690 --> 00:46:02,682
~ Ocean Conservancy cites that roughly 90%
capture rate for these filters.

1046
00:46:02,682 --> 00:46:07,334
So that's big. And with that, I'm sure as
you poll people,

1047
00:46:07,334 --> 00:46:12,336
~ you know, your the the organization is
polling Ocean Conservancy said that eight

1048
00:46:12,336 --> 00:46:15,077
out of 10 Americans support requiring
these filters.

1049
00:46:15,077 --> 00:46:19,939
Does that type of public support translate
into policy to,

1050
00:46:19,939 --> 00:46:22,990
you know, like essentially make them add
it?

1051
00:46:23,140 --> 00:46:26,363
either either retrofit or on the new
brands.

1052
00:46:26,363 --> 00:46:30,627
~ or is there a gap in the in like once
once you come out with a poll eight

1053
00:46:30,627 --> 00:46:32,729
out of ten and you have a ninety percent
capture rate.

1054
00:46:32,729 --> 00:46:34,045
Like these sounds like really good
numbers.

1055
00:46:34,045 --> 00:46:38,435
And I know the capture rate like will vary
by mesh size and different types

1056
00:46:38,435 --> 00:46:41,458
of filters and so forth. But I mean it
sounds pretty promising.

1057
00:46:39,869 --> 00:46:42,340
Totally. Yeah.

1058
00:46:41,458 --> 00:46:42,458
Like

1059
00:46:42,359 --> 00:46:46,631
how come these this bill hasn't been
created or put through or

1060
00:46:46,631 --> 00:46:47,704
is this something that's new?

1061
00:46:48,519 --> 00:46:52,011
Yeah. ~ a little bit of both. ~ you know,

1062
00:46:52,011 --> 00:46:54,742
our that polling is new, this this
campaign is new,

1063
00:46:54,742 --> 00:47:00,346
and we're really hoping that it does help
directly translate into policy this next

1064
00:47:00,346 --> 00:47:03,187
year because you're right, those numbers
don't lie.

1065
00:47:03,187 --> 00:47:07,299
This is an eighty twenty issue and we can
tackle ninety percent

1066
00:47:07,300 --> 00:47:10,201
of a microplastics problem. Sign me up.

1067
00:47:10,598 --> 00:47:11,598
Yeah.

1068
00:47:11,682 --> 00:47:14,614
and you know, there is opposition to the,

1069
00:47:14,614 --> 00:47:16,945
you know, new requirements and new

1070
00:47:17,766 --> 00:47:22,439
~ regulations, you know, just like there
is for we were talking about with

1071
00:47:22,439 --> 00:47:25,891
SB 54 in California. There was opposition
there too.

1072
00:47:25,891 --> 00:47:29,313
~ That's not new or unexpected.

1073
00:47:29,313 --> 00:47:31,964
It's just a challenge. And

1074
00:47:29,597 --> 00:47:31,725
Of course. Yeah.

1075
00:47:31,964 --> 00:47:36,407
so that's the other part of our goal with
this campaign is how can we

1076
00:47:36,407 --> 00:47:40,479
get as many folks ~ supporting us,

1077
00:47:40,479 --> 00:47:42,680
reaching out to their legislators,

1078
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:44,091
saying,

1079
00:47:44,433 --> 00:47:48,836
Hey, I care about this. I want this in my
~ washing machine too.

1080
00:47:48,634 --> 00:47:49,709
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

1081
00:47:48,836 --> 00:47:49,877
~ and

1082
00:47:49,877 --> 00:47:55,762
really making this a a uniform no-brainer
~ so we can actually start taking action

1083
00:47:57,063 --> 00:47:58,063
here at the state level.

1084
00:47:58,746 --> 00:47:59,746
Yeah. I I I

1085
00:47:59,627 --> 00:48:02,047
mean I think it's great because I think
it's it's a lot of people,

1086
00:48:02,047 --> 00:48:06,883
you know, you just don't realize that
these things are out there until it's
made.

1087
00:48:06,883 --> 00:48:08,544
And then you're like, okay. And let's be
honest,

1088
00:48:08,544 --> 00:48:10,726
we humans, we're not fans of change.

1089
00:48:10,726 --> 00:48:12,347
And so it's difficult to come up.

1090
00:48:12,347 --> 00:48:15,690
I mean, nobody liked the seatbelt when it
was first added into the to the car.

1091
00:48:15,690 --> 00:48:18,732
And then now all of a sudden it's like we
don't go anywhere without our seatbelt on,

1092
00:48:18,732 --> 00:48:20,954
or you shouldn't go anywhere without your
seatbelt on.

1093
00:48:19,037 --> 00:48:21,519
Totally. Yeah. Yeah.

1094
00:48:20,954 --> 00:48:21,954
~

1095
00:48:21,755 --> 00:48:25,238
but I think it's the same it's the same
kind of ~ kind of thing.

1096
00:48:25,238 --> 00:48:27,900
~ are there states that require filter?

1097
00:48:28,346 --> 00:48:30,929
Like filters on their ~ on their washers?

1098
00:48:30,929 --> 00:48:32,920
Okay.

1099
00:48:31,557 --> 00:48:33,158
Not yet. ~

1100
00:48:33,218 --> 00:48:36,909
and so this is this is kind of the thrust
of this campaign is like how

1101
00:48:36,909 --> 00:48:38,760
can we get states to start doing this?

1102
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:39,760
~

1103
00:48:38,928 --> 00:48:39,928
Yeah.

1104
00:48:39,650 --> 00:48:41,562
so there's been some early conversation,

1105
00:48:41,562 --> 00:48:43,542
states have introduced legislation,

1106
00:48:43,542 --> 00:48:46,044
~ which has been really helpful to start,

1107
00:48:46,044 --> 00:48:47,224
you know, hey, what

1108
00:48:46,875 --> 00:48:47,875
Yeah.

1109
00:48:47,224 --> 00:48:51,386
is what is opposition saying? What is the
industry asking for?

1110
00:48:51,386 --> 00:48:55,168
How can we kind of come together and
negotiate and and meet in the middle?

1111
00:48:54,468 --> 00:48:55,907
Right. Yeah.

1112
00:48:55,168 --> 00:48:56,168
~ so

1113
00:48:55,918 --> 00:48:58,029
I would say that's where we are right now
is kind of

1114
00:48:58,471 --> 00:49:02,945
We've we've updated things and we are
really ready for ~ hopefully states

1115
00:49:02,945 --> 00:49:05,146
to take this on next year. We have heard

1116
00:49:04,666 --> 00:49:05,666
Mm-hmm.

1117
00:49:05,146 --> 00:49:10,191
a ton of great excitement from a lot of
different states ready to tackle this
issue

1118
00:49:10,191 --> 00:49:14,594
next year. ~ and I think one thing that
helps is like again,

1119
00:49:14,594 --> 00:49:17,597
absolute no-brainer, tons of public
support,

1120
00:49:17,597 --> 00:49:20,099
tackling a big part of the crisis.

1121
00:49:20,099 --> 00:49:23,221
And it is just for new machines.

1122
00:49:23,221 --> 00:49:26,214
So this is not asking everyone to jump all
at once.

1123
00:49:26,214 --> 00:49:27,645
It's very similar to what

1124
00:49:27,986 --> 00:49:29,267
You were just sitting with seatbelts.

1125
00:49:29,267 --> 00:49:33,309
It's like, hey, if you're gonna sell a new
car in five years,

1126
00:49:33,309 --> 00:49:36,631
put a seatbelt in it. And that's basically
all we're saying.

1127
00:49:35,098 --> 00:49:37,293
Yeah, right. Right.

1128
00:49:36,631 --> 00:49:37,631
It's like, hey,

1129
00:49:37,621 --> 00:49:41,193
we know this is a big issue. It's not
going away overnight.

1130
00:49:41,193 --> 00:49:45,536
We need to take action across the entire
life cycle of textiles.

1131
00:49:45,536 --> 00:49:46,906
We need to make better, you know,

1132
00:49:46,906 --> 00:49:52,479
use less plastics, ~ better design the
plastic clothes that we are going

1133
00:49:52,479 --> 00:49:53,960
to continue to use.

1134
00:49:52,644 --> 00:49:54,467
Yeah. Yeah.

1135
00:49:54,541 --> 00:49:55,541
And there's

1136
00:49:55,471 --> 00:49:59,903
always going to be microplastic shedding
from washing and we are always going

1137
00:49:59,903 --> 00:50:03,475
to wash our clothes. So you all start
working on this issue.

1138
00:50:03,475 --> 00:50:05,496
That'll help us today. You know,

1139
00:50:05,496 --> 00:50:09,289
the manufacturers of clothes, they're
starting to work on that issue as well.

1140
00:50:09,289 --> 00:50:12,190
How do we tackle these like broader
systemic things?

1141
00:50:12,190 --> 00:50:16,823
Like we kind of need that that swish
cheese approach where

1142
00:50:16,208 --> 00:50:17,208
Mm-hmm.

1143
00:50:16,823 --> 00:50:18,824
you know no one solution is perfect,

1144
00:50:18,824 --> 00:50:21,725
but we start putting them all together and
then you're really

1145
00:50:19,162 --> 00:50:21,240
Yeah. Yep.

1146
00:50:21,725 --> 00:50:24,687
~ taking a big bite out of the the
problem.

1147
00:50:25,648 --> 00:50:29,519
Now, ~ you know, we talk about I and I
feel like filters are like something
that's

1148
00:50:29,519 --> 00:50:33,820
not a huge thing to put for make like
people who make washing machines like

1149
00:50:33,820 --> 00:50:37,781
the companies to put it on. ~ might add
like a little extra step every couple

1150
00:50:37,781 --> 00:50:40,022
of months to to take out the filter and
stuff,

1151
00:50:40,022 --> 00:50:42,943
but we do that with lint and people seem
to be okay with it.

1152
00:50:42,943 --> 00:50:45,903
So I'm sure once it gets into production
it won't be it won't be too,

1153
00:50:45,903 --> 00:50:51,665
too bad. ~ so that's one way of reducing
the amount of microfibers that go in.

1154
00:50:51,665 --> 00:50:55,196
Now, probably the best way I would imagine

1155
00:50:55,504 --> 00:50:57,084
And I'm just going off the top of my head
here,

1156
00:50:57,084 --> 00:51:01,424
would be not to buy clothes with these
types of microfibers in there.

1157
00:51:01,424 --> 00:51:04,927
Is there a way individually that we could
because I don't want to put it

1158
00:51:04,927 --> 00:51:08,908
all on the individuals, as a lot of things
have happened and they blame individuals

1159
00:51:08,306 --> 00:51:09,306
Or

1160
00:51:08,908 --> 00:51:10,449
with phones and things like that?

1161
00:51:10,449 --> 00:51:13,509
how like, like,

1162
00:51:13,509 --> 00:51:17,701
are there ways for individuals to reduce
their footprint by and ~

1163
00:51:17,701 --> 00:51:21,792
by buying specific types of clothing that
would reduce the microfiber?

1164
00:51:22,292 --> 00:51:27,613
This is a tricky one because even our
non-plastic textiles

1165
00:51:27,614 --> 00:51:28,614
Yeah.

1166
00:51:28,413 --> 00:51:30,574
often have a bunch of chemicals,

1167
00:51:30,574 --> 00:51:32,534
right? So even if it's

1168
00:51:31,175 --> 00:51:32,336
Right, right.

1169
00:51:32,655 --> 00:51:35,715
a hundred percent cotton, totally natural,

1170
00:51:35,715 --> 00:51:41,377
it has dyes and manufacturing chemicals
and all sorts of other issues,

1171
00:51:41,377 --> 00:51:43,857
such that when you do the you know,

1172
00:51:43,857 --> 00:51:46,678
ecotoxicity and on aquatic species,

1173
00:51:46,678 --> 00:51:49,719
they're actually pretty similar in terms
of

1174
00:51:49,409 --> 00:51:50,409
Hmm.

1175
00:51:49,799 --> 00:51:51,379
harm. ~

1176
00:51:51,753 --> 00:51:55,264
So that is not to say that there is not an
answer here.

1177
00:51:55,264 --> 00:51:56,264
You know,

1178
00:51:55,346 --> 00:51:56,346
Yeah.

1179
00:51:55,924 --> 00:51:57,794
buying cotton or buying those,

1180
00:51:57,794 --> 00:51:59,995
you know, natural fibers. That's great.

1181
00:51:59,421 --> 00:52:00,421
Yeah.

1182
00:51:59,995 --> 00:52:01,616
That's less fossil fuel, right?

1183
00:52:01,616 --> 00:52:03,916
Plastics are directly made from fossil
fuels,

1184
00:52:01,978 --> 00:52:04,305
Right. True.

1185
00:52:03,916 --> 00:52:04,916
that the

1186
00:52:04,386 --> 00:52:06,947
less plastics we're using, the better in
general.

1187
00:52:06,947 --> 00:52:13,646
And ~ that doesn't mean that your washing
machine is perfectly safe.

1188
00:52:13,646 --> 00:52:17,930
You know, there's still NSFW, not safe for
wash things happening.

1189
00:52:17,930 --> 00:52:18,930
There

1190
00:52:18,182 --> 00:52:19,182
Mm-hmm.

1191
00:52:18,830 --> 00:52:21,123
are some general tips and tricks for kind
of reducing.

1192
00:52:21,321 --> 00:52:25,333
reducing your amount of microfibers
generated.

1193
00:52:25,333 --> 00:52:29,614
~ One, you know, getting a filter
obviously helpful.

1194
00:52:29,614 --> 00:52:32,386
~ But even if you if you don't have that,

1195
00:52:32,386 --> 00:52:36,747
if you're a renter, if you if you're ~
don't have a a washing machine of your
own,

1196
00:52:36,747 --> 00:52:40,899
for example, ~ washing full loads

1197
00:52:40,899 --> 00:52:47,011
~ on lower temperature with less soap
tends to be like

1198
00:52:47,011 --> 00:52:49,582
the better answer here. So you're
basically not

1199
00:52:48,743 --> 00:52:49,743
Interesting.

1200
00:52:49,683 --> 00:52:50,683
superheating

1201
00:52:50,963 --> 00:52:56,107
When you have a full load, there's less of
that like physical agitation

1202
00:52:56,107 --> 00:52:58,648
on any given item of clothes.

1203
00:52:58,055 --> 00:52:59,055
Yep.

1204
00:52:58,648 --> 00:53:02,091
~ there's also some things, there's some,

1205
00:53:02,091 --> 00:53:05,303
you know, technologies out there that you
can put into

1206
00:53:05,303 --> 00:53:07,805
the washing machine themselves.

1207
00:53:07,805 --> 00:53:11,958
~ I'm totally blanking. there's one that's
called a Korra ball,

1208
00:53:11,958 --> 00:53:15,581
which is basically a little plastic ball.

1209
00:53:15,581 --> 00:53:17,672
~ it has all these little, you know,

1210
00:53:17,672 --> 00:53:18,833
things sticking out and

1211
00:53:19,312 --> 00:53:22,275
Like attracts like, so plastic attracts
plastic.

1212
00:53:22,275 --> 00:53:23,376
~ so it kind

1213
00:53:22,706 --> 00:53:23,706
interesting.

1214
00:53:23,376 --> 00:53:25,788
of collects a lot of those little plastics
out

1215
00:53:25,788 --> 00:53:27,639
there. Not quite as effective.

1216
00:53:26,579 --> 00:53:28,540
Does that go in your w washer or dryer?

1217
00:53:29,001 --> 00:53:31,102
It goes, ooh, that's a good question.

1218
00:53:31,102 --> 00:53:33,114
I've seen it in a washing machine before,

1219
00:53:33,114 --> 00:53:34,919
but I don't know. I

1220
00:53:34,140 --> 00:53:35,140
Okay.

1221
00:53:34,919 --> 00:53:38,098
feel like it should have the same
philosophy in a dryer,

1222
00:53:37,724 --> 00:53:41,076
Yeah. Cause we use the static yeah,

1223
00:53:38,098 --> 00:53:41,091
but maybe check the website for that one.

1224
00:53:41,076 --> 00:53:43,308
no, we use the static balls for the dryer,

1225
00:53:41,091 --> 00:53:45,635
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

1226
00:53:43,308 --> 00:53:44,949
so you don't have to use the the sheets,

1227
00:53:44,949 --> 00:53:45,949
but

1228
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,521
so I never heard of this one. This is I
I'm interested in this.

1229
00:53:48,305 --> 00:53:49,796
Yeah. And then there's other

1230
00:53:48,521 --> 00:53:49,582
I'll look definitely look it up.

1231
00:53:49,836 --> 00:53:53,998
ones that are basically like a mesh bag.

1232
00:53:53,998 --> 00:53:54,998
So the same way

1233
00:53:54,504 --> 00:53:55,504
Yeah.

1234
00:53:54,979 --> 00:53:56,740
that these filters are basically mesh.

1235
00:53:56,740 --> 00:54:00,181
~ if you are washing a fleece,

1236
00:54:00,181 --> 00:54:01,181
which is

1237
00:54:00,753 --> 00:54:01,753
Yeah.

1238
00:54:01,362 --> 00:54:05,174
microplastic city, ~ you can put it in
that mesh bag.

1239
00:54:05,174 --> 00:54:08,956
It gets caught in the bag as opposed to
going out in the wastewater,

1240
00:54:08,956 --> 00:54:11,728
and then you can just wipe out the bag the
same you would

1241
00:54:11,293 --> 00:54:12,293
Okay.

1242
00:54:11,728 --> 00:54:15,190
with the filter. So there are kind of some
workarounds for folks

1243
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:16,850
who are interested in taking action.

1244
00:54:16,850 --> 00:54:17,850
~

1245
00:54:17,841 --> 00:54:20,595
And hopefully in the the near future,

1246
00:54:20,595 --> 00:54:23,119
~ if you're looking to buy a new washing
machine,

1247
00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:25,432
you'll have some that have these filters
built

1248
00:54:24,764 --> 00:54:25,764
Yeah.

1249
00:54:25,432 --> 00:54:26,432
in.

1250
00:54:26,154 --> 00:54:28,185
That will be that will be very nice.

1251
00:54:28,185 --> 00:54:34,667
That'll be awesome. ~ so I guess like when
we look at if you if you we kind

1252
00:54:34,667 --> 00:54:38,188
of go back sort of over like the overview
and we look at

1253
00:54:37,438 --> 00:54:38,438
Mm.

1254
00:54:38,188 --> 00:54:43,519
a full you'd cover a full specter spectrum
of of plastic policy.

1255
00:54:43,519 --> 00:54:47,180
~ and not just microfibers. Obviously it's
a it's a pretty big part,

1256
00:54:47,180 --> 00:54:49,621
it's it's an important part. ~

1257
00:54:48,777 --> 00:54:49,777
Mm-hmm.

1258
00:54:49,761 --> 00:54:53,622
so how does like the the washing machine
filter

1259
00:54:54,243 --> 00:54:55,243
~ like how

1260
00:54:54,451 --> 00:54:55,451
Mm-hmm.

1261
00:54:54,995 --> 00:54:59,117
does that fight, you know, to get that in
connect with the bigger push towards

1262
00:54:59,378 --> 00:55:00,592
a circular economy?

1263
00:55:01,290 --> 00:55:02,770
Yeah, that's a great question.

1264
00:55:02,770 --> 00:55:07,822
~ the way that I think about it with our
work is that there

1265
00:55:07,822 --> 00:55:11,763
are different types of plastic pollution
and they're going

1266
00:55:11,763 --> 00:55:14,663
to require different types of solutions.

1267
00:55:14,663 --> 00:55:20,725
~ so what we're going to do to tackle
single-use plastics and foodware

1268
00:55:20,985 --> 00:55:25,116
is going to look different than what we
need to do for textiles is going

1269
00:55:25,116 --> 00:55:29,867
to look different than what we need to do
for car tires that shed microplastics.

1270
00:55:30,431 --> 00:55:34,794
Paint that shed microplastics or ~ you
know,

1271
00:55:34,794 --> 00:55:37,626
microplastics that are intentionally
created small.

1272
00:55:37,564 --> 00:55:38,564
Mm-hmm.

1273
00:55:37,626 --> 00:55:38,626
So our

1274
00:55:38,066 --> 00:55:44,841
primary microplastics. ~ so for this ~
part of the microplastic crisis,

1275
00:55:44,841 --> 00:55:47,573
like this is a huge bite of the apple,

1276
00:55:47,573 --> 00:55:49,164
right? This would be a huge

1277
00:55:48,447 --> 00:55:49,447
yeah.

1278
00:55:49,184 --> 00:55:52,546
solution once it's at scale.

1279
00:55:52,546 --> 00:55:59,331
and I think it helps kind of feed into
this broader narrative about getting ~

1280
00:55:59,583 --> 00:56:02,630
policy and the manufacturers of these,

1281
00:56:02,630 --> 00:56:04,803
you know, different ~

1282
00:56:05,303 --> 00:56:09,405
Products to kind of help us be more
responsible together.

1283
00:56:09,405 --> 00:56:10,405
Everyone's

1284
00:56:09,695 --> 00:56:10,695
Yeah.

1285
00:56:10,206 --> 00:56:13,447
t contributing, everyone's playing a role,

1286
00:56:13,447 --> 00:56:16,289
~ everyone's paying their fair share.

1287
00:56:16,289 --> 00:56:21,252
So a producer of a single-use plastic is
going to help pay for the recycling.

1288
00:56:21,252 --> 00:56:25,344
A producer of a washing machine is going
to help pay for some of the filters.

1289
00:56:25,344 --> 00:56:28,115
We're going to help pay for some of the
filters.

1290
00:56:28,115 --> 00:56:31,077
You know, if you're a car manuf tire
manufacturer,

1291
00:56:31,077 --> 00:56:33,018
hopefully you'll help figure out how to
pay for

1292
00:56:32,458 --> 00:56:33,458
Yeah.

1293
00:56:33,018 --> 00:56:34,919
some of you know improvements to.

1294
00:56:35,786 --> 00:56:36,786
Yep.

1295
00:56:36,068 --> 00:56:37,068
Or

1296
00:56:36,248 --> 00:56:40,331
maybe green infrastructure, ~ all of those
different pieces.

1297
00:56:40,331 --> 00:56:44,955
So it's kind of that broader narrative of
part of creating this circular economy

1298
00:56:44,955 --> 00:56:49,659
~ is not letting producers get away with
it.

1299
00:56:49,659 --> 00:56:55,544
It's internalizing all of those costs that
right now you and

1300
00:56:55,544 --> 00:56:57,746
I and the environment are facing

1301
00:56:58,079 --> 00:56:59,079
Yeah.

1302
00:56:58,547 --> 00:57:03,111
so that we can move forward together by
actually accounting for.

1303
00:57:03,455 --> 00:57:08,418
all of the harm that these plastics are
doing ~ in a way that you know

1304
00:57:08,418 --> 00:57:11,055
our economy can deal with which is

1305
00:57:10,025 --> 00:57:11,437
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

1306
00:57:11,477 --> 00:57:12,477
dollars and cents.

1307
00:57:13,059 --> 00:57:16,468
That's really interesting. ~ with
everything going on with all

1308
00:57:16,468 --> 00:57:18,629
the things that you're working on over the
next year,

1309
00:57:18,035 --> 00:57:19,035
Mm.

1310
00:57:18,629 --> 00:57:21,299
like what's the win you're hoping for?

1311
00:57:21,299 --> 00:57:23,872
That's like on your wish list.

1312
00:57:24,378 --> 00:57:26,800
what's on my wish list? ~

1313
00:57:27,441 --> 00:57:32,095
my wish list is that ~ at least one,

1314
00:57:32,095 --> 00:57:38,630
maybe two states pass a requirement for
new washing machines

1315
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:41,773
to phase in these microplastic filters.

1316
00:57:42,544 --> 00:57:44,765
Yeah. I think that'd be a great win.

1317
00:57:44,765 --> 00:57:47,905
We've talked a lot about state
legislation.

1318
00:57:47,905 --> 00:57:48,906
~

1319
00:57:48,254 --> 00:57:49,254
Mm-hmm.

1320
00:57:49,466 --> 00:57:53,547
and and I think it's great. federally
though,

1321
00:57:53,547 --> 00:57:56,328
we're in a little predicament worldwide,

1322
00:57:56,328 --> 00:58:00,189
but also in the US, especially where where
most of your work is done.

1323
00:58:00,189 --> 00:58:01,209
~

1324
00:58:00,702 --> 00:58:01,702
Mm-hmm.

1325
00:58:02,169 --> 00:58:04,130
has Ocean Conservancies sort of,

1326
00:58:04,130 --> 00:58:07,451
you know, the the the the the Trump
administration is not known to

1327
00:58:07,451 --> 00:58:11,322
be the most environmentally friendly or
putting policies together that would help.

1328
00:58:11,506 --> 00:58:12,947
probably advance on a federal level.

1329
00:58:12,947 --> 00:58:19,530
~ is is it sort of your sort of direction
to get more wins at this point

1330
00:58:19,530 --> 00:58:24,943
in time to do more state level ~ work
instead of federal level

1331
00:58:24,943 --> 00:58:27,144
as it's probably harder to work with
federal level?

1332
00:58:27,144 --> 00:58:30,796
Or maybe are we still pal are you still
able to pass policies through

1333
00:58:30,796 --> 00:58:32,467
the federal level even with this
administration?

1334
00:58:33,196 --> 00:58:38,938
Yeah, I mean we are we are trying to make
progress wherever we can find it.

1335
00:58:38,938 --> 00:58:39,938
~

1336
00:58:39,021 --> 00:58:40,021
Gotcha.

1337
00:58:39,828 --> 00:58:45,892
so a similar bill ~ to requiring these
these washing machines to have

1338
00:58:45,892 --> 00:58:47,963
a filter was introduced federally,

1339
00:58:47,963 --> 00:58:51,845
which is super exciting because I think it
helps states,

1340
00:58:51,845 --> 00:58:56,197
you know, see this is tried and tested
policy if this is being introduced

1341
00:58:55,607 --> 00:58:56,607
Yeah.

1342
00:58:56,197 --> 00:59:00,530
in Congress. And I think it also helps
give this sense of it's an

1343
00:59:01,051 --> 00:59:04,392
when not an if this type of policy is
coming,

1344
00:59:04,392 --> 00:59:06,034
you know, if you have federal interests.

1345
00:59:06,034 --> 00:59:10,806
So ~ you know, we are, even if it's not
getting past,

1346
00:59:10,806 --> 00:59:14,528
we're still pushing forward these policy
conversations federally because

1347
00:59:14,528 --> 00:59:15,528
it it does help

1348
00:59:14,818 --> 00:59:15,818
Yeah.

1349
00:59:15,409 --> 00:59:18,240
kind of there's that feedback loop off of
each other.

1350
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:23,137
~ you know, regardless of the
administration,

1351
00:59:23,137 --> 00:59:28,191
I will just say we have not done much

1352
00:59:28,858 --> 00:59:34,342
Proactive work on plastics at the federal
level since the microplastics,

1353
00:59:34,342 --> 00:59:36,624
since the Microbeads Free Waters Act.

1354
00:59:36,624 --> 00:59:37,624
That was

1355
00:59:36,897 --> 00:59:37,897
Mm.

1356
00:59:38,225 --> 00:59:43,048
2014, 2015. so it's been a second.

1357
00:59:40,011 --> 00:59:43,708
Right. Okay. Yep.

1358
00:59:43,048 --> 00:59:44,169
There's been a couple different,

1359
00:59:43,708 --> 00:59:46,292
Administrations. Yeah, for sure.

1360
00:59:44,169 --> 00:59:46,718
you know, administrations since then.

1361
00:59:46,718 --> 00:59:50,134
~ and so I think this speaks to a couple
things.

1362
00:59:50,134 --> 00:59:55,838
One, ~ a lot of these problems have been
kind of delegated to the state level.

1363
00:59:56,312 --> 00:59:57,313
So states really

1364
00:59:56,419 --> 00:59:57,419
Gotcha.

1365
00:59:57,313 --> 00:59:59,364
are on the front line of this issue.

1366
00:59:59,364 --> 01:00:04,238
~ so where we're doing a lot of work there
because states are the ones dealing with

1367
01:00:04,238 --> 01:00:06,259
the consequences and paying the price.

1368
01:00:06,259 --> 01:00:10,412
~ and as you noted, are better at moving
quicker.

1369
01:00:10,412 --> 01:00:12,704
they are the front lines of, you know,

1370
01:00:10,709 --> 01:00:14,057
Right. Yeah.

1371
01:00:12,704 --> 01:00:15,205
they're the the testing ground for
democracy,

1372
01:00:14,057 --> 01:00:16,835
Yeah, for sure.

1373
01:00:15,205 --> 01:00:16,847
as we say. So, you know,

1374
01:00:16,847 --> 01:00:19,538
they will hear things, test things out,

1375
01:00:19,538 --> 01:00:21,560
have make have these, you know,

1376
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,542
negotiations and stakeholder conversations
and actually pass.

1377
01:00:25,132 --> 01:00:26,353
exciting new policy.

1378
01:00:25,399 --> 01:00:27,202
Yeah. Yeah.

1379
01:00:28,545 --> 01:00:33,579
and I think it means that this needs to be
this needs

1380
01:00:33,579 --> 01:00:38,193
to become like climate change almost at
the at the federal level,

1381
01:00:37,292 --> 01:00:38,742
Yeah. Right.

1382
01:00:38,193 --> 01:00:39,193
where

1383
01:00:38,793 --> 01:00:43,347
this is not a, you know, a red versus blue
issue.

1384
01:00:43,299 --> 01:00:44,299
No.

1385
01:00:43,347 --> 01:00:44,347
This

1386
01:00:43,597 --> 01:00:46,399
is not a like three-person pet project.

1387
01:00:46,399 --> 01:00:49,952
Like this needs to be something that every
single member of Congress

1388
01:00:49,952 --> 01:00:51,554
is hearing about from folks

1389
01:00:50,990 --> 01:00:51,990
Yeah.

1390
01:00:51,554 --> 01:00:54,476
back home so that we can have this like

1391
01:00:54,746 --> 01:00:57,218
full-throated effort in Congress

1392
01:00:56,418 --> 01:00:57,418
Yeah.

1393
01:00:57,218 --> 01:01:00,006
to really take action. ~

1394
01:00:59,201 --> 01:01:00,201
Yeah.

1395
01:01:00,006 --> 01:01:04,814
And I think that's on all of us as you
know science communications,

1396
01:01:04,814 --> 01:01:08,962
ocean communicators, ~ and and ocean
conservancy,

1397
01:01:08,962 --> 01:01:12,110
you know, as a as an advocacy organization
to make sure

1398
01:01:11,544 --> 01:01:12,544
Mm-hmm.

1399
01:01:12,110 --> 01:01:17,424
that we are getting all of our members ~
engaged and kind of carrying

1400
01:01:16,790 --> 01:01:17,790
Yeah.

1401
01:01:17,424 --> 01:01:22,188
that message up to Congress so that when
they're back in session,

1402
01:01:22,188 --> 01:01:24,110
whether that's this year or next year or

1403
01:01:24,291 --> 01:01:25,732
You know, three years from now,

1404
01:01:25,732 --> 01:01:31,298
five years from now, ~ they know this is
an issue that is top of mind for
Americans.

1405
01:01:31,871 --> 01:01:36,683
Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, people
listening to this always like to do
something,

1406
01:01:36,683 --> 01:01:40,265
you know, whether it's on their own or ~
beyond.

1407
01:01:37,593 --> 01:01:41,089
love that. Yeah.

1408
01:01:40,265 --> 01:01:41,435
So so from

1409
01:01:41,435 --> 01:01:45,026
from your perspective, other than doing
things like changing their own habits,

1410
01:01:45,026 --> 01:01:50,299
what can they do beyond that that's like
the most useful thing that they'd

1411
01:01:50,299 --> 01:01:51,299
be able to do?

1412
01:01:51,352 --> 01:01:53,713
Yeah. ~ I would recommend folks head

1413
01:01:53,713 --> 01:01:58,625
to oceanconservancy.org slash NsfW,

1414
01:01:58,625 --> 01:02:01,307
not safe for wash, ~

1415
01:01:59,125 --> 01:02:00,854
Okay. Gotcha.

1416
01:02:02,027 --> 01:02:06,439
to kind of check out the campaign and
learn how they can they can join

1417
01:02:06,439 --> 01:02:10,351
us in taking action, whether that's
contacting their representatives,

1418
01:02:10,351 --> 01:02:11,351
~

1419
01:02:10,425 --> 01:02:11,425
Mm-hmm.

1420
01:02:11,651 --> 01:02:16,113
you know, letters, ~ joining us for live
streams,

1421
01:02:16,113 --> 01:02:17,113
learning more.

1422
01:02:17,282 --> 01:02:18,282
Yeah.

1423
01:02:17,460 --> 01:02:18,460
running

1424
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:19,281
bills in their state. You know,

1425
01:02:19,281 --> 01:02:22,033
there's kind of a whole host of tools
there for folks

1426
01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:22,900
Right.

1427
01:02:22,754 --> 01:02:25,356
to get engaged however they see fit.

1428
01:02:25,645 --> 01:02:26,645
Yeah.

1429
01:02:26,056 --> 01:02:30,420
And then we also have a lot more of those
tips of what can you do at home right

1430
01:02:30,039 --> 01:02:31,039
Right.

1431
01:02:30,420 --> 01:02:34,713
now. So there's kind of a a choose your
own adventure for how folks want

1432
01:02:34,713 --> 01:02:38,946
to engage with us. ~ All at
oceanconservancy.org.

1433
01:02:39,595 --> 01:02:40,756
Love it. And you know what I love?

1434
01:02:40,756 --> 01:02:44,209
As someone who's Canadian, I think this is
a lot of this stuff can happen

1435
01:02:44,209 --> 01:02:47,701
in our own countries as well. You can take
the you can go to the website,

1436
01:02:47,701 --> 01:02:48,733
which we'll put in the show notes,

1437
01:02:48,733 --> 01:02:51,686
but you can go there and you can kind of
take it if you're not in the US,

1438
01:02:51,686 --> 01:02:54,118
that's okay. Take the same sort of
tactics,

1439
01:02:54,118 --> 01:02:55,779
call your local representatives,

1440
01:02:55,779 --> 01:02:58,602
look for these filters that you can put in
yourself,

1441
01:02:58,602 --> 01:02:59,713
like all these different things.

1442
01:02:59,713 --> 01:03:01,985
You can join the live ~ you know,

1443
01:03:01,985 --> 01:03:06,189
Zoom calls or or or you know, online calls
and virtual meetings and stuff like that

1444
01:03:06,189 --> 01:03:07,189
to

1445
01:03:06,723 --> 01:03:09,895
participate and get more information to
apply to your own place

1446
01:03:09,895 --> 01:03:12,536
of wherever you live, whether it's in the
US or outside.

1447
01:03:12,536 --> 01:03:16,768
Anya, this has been so great to be able to
talk plastic pollution and and

1448
01:03:16,768 --> 01:03:19,860
to be able to talk about all the work that
Ocean Conservancy and and

1449
01:03:19,860 --> 01:03:24,022
and your team has done to be able to like
what you've been able to accomplish,

1450
01:03:24,022 --> 01:03:28,655
I think is is phenomenal. Love to have you
back on talk more plastic pollution

1451
01:03:28,655 --> 01:03:32,737
and and see where we can get more
awareness of what's happening beyond

1452
01:03:32,737 --> 01:03:36,093
the plastic straws, beyond the plastic
bags and really talk about s

1453
01:03:36,229 --> 01:03:37,229
like

1454
01:03:36,931 --> 01:03:41,977
how we can systematically install policy ~
in any country to be able to reduce this.

1455
01:03:41,977 --> 01:03:43,739
Cause I think this is one of the biggest
like,

1456
01:03:43,739 --> 01:03:47,717
you know, pandemics that we have in terms
of of plastic pollution.

1457
01:03:47,717 --> 01:03:50,216
It's just everywhere. And so we need to we
need to solve it.

1458
01:03:50,216 --> 01:03:53,770
And and I love the work that you guys are
doing ~ to be able to do that.

1459
01:03:53,770 --> 01:03:56,984
So so thank you so much for the work and
then your team's work and and coming

1460
01:03:56,984 --> 01:03:57,984
on the podcast to tell us.

1461
01:03:58,392 --> 01:03:59,913
Yeah, well thanks thanks for having me.

1462
01:03:59,913 --> 01:04:03,703
I'm happy to come back and and talk
plastics ~ anytime.

1463
01:04:03,703 --> 01:04:04,926
I mean, I think you said it well.

1464
01:04:04,926 --> 01:04:10,339
Plastic pollution does not know or obey
any ~ global boundaries,

1465
01:04:10,339 --> 01:04:12,490
so we shouldn't we shouldn't either.

1466
01:04:10,506 --> 01:04:11,506
Exactly.

1467
01:04:12,994 --> 01:04:14,598
Absolutely, absolutely. Wonderful.

1468
01:04:14,598 --> 01:04:15,598
Thank you so much.

1469
01:04:16,043 --> 01:04:18,875
Thank you, Anya, for joining us on today's
episode of the How to Protect

1470
01:04:18,875 --> 01:04:22,699
the Ocean podcast. Look, I know there's a
lot of stuff going on in the world.

1471
01:04:22,699 --> 01:04:26,862
And if there's one thing that we can do to
keep it from being better,

1472
01:04:26,862 --> 01:04:29,835
whether it's you know, reducing your
climate impact,

1473
01:04:29,835 --> 01:04:31,406
reducing your plastic pollution impact,

1474
01:04:31,406 --> 01:04:35,099
that's what we can do. And if it's easy as
putting a filter on a

1475
01:04:35,099 --> 01:04:37,972
on a washing machine or getting an adapter
for your washing machine

1476
01:04:37,972 --> 01:04:40,354
or buying a washing machine with the
filter on it,

1477
01:04:40,354 --> 01:04:42,946
then we can do that. It's not that much,

1478
01:04:42,946 --> 01:04:43,946
it's not that bad.

1479
01:04:44,063 --> 01:04:45,664
And I think it's something that we can
reduce,

1480
01:04:45,664 --> 01:04:49,176
like if we can reduce 90% of that just in
your household alone,

1481
01:04:49,176 --> 01:04:52,758
that's incredible. And to be able to put
that adaption on,

1482
01:04:52,758 --> 01:04:54,299
I think is gonna be great. I mean,

1483
01:04:54,299 --> 01:04:56,831
we have lint, you know, lint, ~ what do
you call them?

1484
01:04:56,831 --> 01:04:59,222
Containers or lint catchers, I guess what
you call them,

1485
01:04:59,222 --> 01:05:02,064
or filters. we have that that we have to
take out every once in a while

1486
01:05:02,064 --> 01:05:03,805
of the dryer. Let's do it with the washers
too,

1487
01:05:03,805 --> 01:05:06,327
so that we can reduce our impact from our
clothes.

1488
01:05:06,327 --> 01:05:09,589
And and and to be honest, like buy clothes
a little more guilt-free.

1489
01:05:09,878 --> 01:05:13,249
You know, obviously we don't want to buy
too many or over like,

1490
01:05:13,249 --> 01:05:15,069
you know, get too materialistic in our
age.

1491
01:05:15,069 --> 01:05:16,820
But like I live in North America,

1492
01:05:16,820 --> 01:05:19,961
we all know what it's like. And ~ if you
can reduce this one thing,

1493
01:05:19,961 --> 01:05:22,962
that could that would be it. Just putting
a filter on your washing machine

1494
01:05:23,022 --> 01:05:27,363
and your whole household reduces their
microfiber pollution by ninety percent,

1495
01:05:27,363 --> 01:05:29,463
up to ninety percent. That's actually
amazing.

1496
01:05:29,463 --> 01:05:32,754
So ~ Anya, just ~ thank you so much for
joining us today.

1497
01:05:32,754 --> 01:05:35,145
It was great to have you on. Looking
forward to having you back on.

1498
01:05:35,637 --> 01:05:39,580
we'll go check out the links to the Ocean
Conservancy and their plastic pollution

1499
01:05:39,580 --> 01:05:41,511
program. I'll put it in the show notes.

1500
01:05:41,511 --> 01:05:43,122
And of course, if you have any questions
for me,

1501
01:05:43,122 --> 01:05:45,994
if you're listening to this on Spotify and
you have a question,

1502
01:05:45,994 --> 01:05:48,566
just put it in the comments. I'll I'll be
sure to check them.

1503
01:05:48,566 --> 01:05:51,172
And of course, if you if you're not on
listening to this on Spotify

1504
01:05:51,172 --> 01:05:53,553
and you're listening to this on another ~
podcast app,

1505
01:05:53,553 --> 01:05:56,271
for by the way, every podcast app should
have a comment section.

1506
01:05:56,271 --> 01:05:59,934
I think that's wonderful. But you can just
~ you can just DM me

1507
01:05:59,934 --> 01:06:02,616
on Instagram or TikTok. My links are in
there,

1508
01:06:02,616 --> 01:06:03,726
are in the show notes as well,

1509
01:06:03,726 --> 01:06:04,726
Facebook as well.

1510
01:06:04,973 --> 01:06:06,914
any kind of social media that I'm pretty
much on.

1511
01:06:06,914 --> 01:06:08,354
All the links are in the show notes.

1512
01:06:08,354 --> 01:06:10,185
but that's it for today's episode.

1513
01:06:10,185 --> 01:06:11,806
I want to thank Anya for joining us.

1514
01:06:11,806 --> 01:06:14,297
I want to thank the Ocean Conservancy for
making her available to us

1515
01:06:14,297 --> 01:06:17,748
and all the work that they do on the
plastic pollution in the ocean

1516
01:06:17,748 --> 01:06:21,440
and making awareness and having programs
to decrease the amount that we that

1517
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,411
we put out there. ~ and I want to thank
you for listening and

1518
01:06:24,411 --> 01:06:26,932
for you for participating in some of these
actions that we do.

1519
01:06:26,932 --> 01:06:28,663
If you do end up putting a filter on,

1520
01:06:28,663 --> 01:06:32,374
let me know. I'd love to tag me in a post
or anything I'd love to hear from

1521
01:06:32,374 --> 01:06:33,895
you and what your experience was like.

1522
01:06:34,188 --> 01:06:36,730
But other than that, thank you so much for
joining me on today's episode

1523
01:06:36,730 --> 01:06:38,170
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1524
01:06:38,170 --> 01:06:40,552
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great
weekend.

1525
01:06:40,552 --> 01:06:43,063
We'll talk to you on Monday in happy
conservation.