Scientific Discoveries That Changed How We See the Ocean

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What if some of the most important

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scientific discoveries in the ocean did

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not come from looking for answers,

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but from noticing something unexpected?

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An instrument suddenly goes silent.

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A camera captures life moving faster than

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anyone thought possible.

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A platform designed to sit still tumbles

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down to the sea floor and opens up a

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decade of new science.

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These are not accidents.

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These are moments where

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curiosity meets technology

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and where long-term ocean observing

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reveals stories we

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could never tell before.

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We're going to talk about scientific

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discoveries on this episode of the How to

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Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back to another

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exciting episode of the How

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to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is

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the podcast where you find out what's

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happening with the ocean,

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how you could speak up for the ocean and

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what you can do to live for a better

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ocean by taking action.

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And this episode is part of Surfacing

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Secrets, Explore the

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Planet and Know the Ocean.

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It's a special series created with Ocean

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Networks Canada that takes you beneath

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the surface of the ocean to uncover how

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science, technology and curiosity come

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together to change what

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we know about our planet.

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Over the past few episodes, we explored

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origins of Ocean Networks Canada, its

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partnerships and the people behind one of

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the most advanced ocean

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observing systems in the world.

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Today, we're focusing on one of my

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favorite topics, which

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is scientific discoveries.

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We are talking about the moments when

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data reveals something not one expected,

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when instruments capture events that last

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only seconds and when years of patience

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suddenly pay off with a breakthrough that

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reshapes our understanding of the ocean.

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Joining me today are Richard Dewey,

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former science director at Ocean Networks

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Canada and one of the

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original architects of the network.

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Cohen Bauer, who is the science director

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at ONC currently and Gwen Linter from

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Natural Resources Canada, whose work on

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the Fraser Delta has led to the world's

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first discoveries in submarine landslides

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and sediment dynamics.

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Together, we will explore how real time

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ocean monitoring unlocks discovery, why

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sound has become one of the most powerful

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tools in understanding the deep sea and

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what these discoveries mean for ocean

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health, coastal communities and our

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relationship with the ocean itself.

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This is a conversation about curiosity,

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patience and what happens when we listen

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closely to the ocean.

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So here's the interview with Richard

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Cohen and Gwen talking about ONC

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scientific discoveries.

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Enjoy and I'll talk to you after.

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Hey Richard. Hey Cohen. Hey Gwen. Welcome

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to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about scientific

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discoveries with the ONC

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with Ocean Networks Canada?

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Big time.

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Right. I love it. All right. This is

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going to be great because, you know,

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we've had this ongoing, you know, monthly

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podcast with Ocean Networks Canada and

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it's been a lot of fun to discover the

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art that goes on the indigenous

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partnerships that we that ONC has and has

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been working, you know, on those

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relationships and continuing to grow

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those relationships and into some

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successful programs

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and education as well.

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And today we're talking about some of my

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favorite things as well is is scientific

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discovery, some things that we've

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discovered, some of the things that have

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come out of all this data that has come

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down come up from the bottom of the sea,

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which is which is a lot of fun.

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So we have some experts here have been

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working alongside or with Ocean Networks

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Canada for for a long time. So it's going

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to be great. I can't wait to get started.

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So let's get started before we get into

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the scientific discoveries. Let's give

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just a brief intro. So just who you are

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and what you do within this whole con

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like this, this whole

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thing of ocean networks Canada.

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What we'll do, Richard, we'll start with

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you. Why don't you just let us know your

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just the name and your title?

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Yeah, Richard Doody. I just retired, but

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I was the prior science director with

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Ocean Networks Canada.

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And I was one of the original authors on

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getting the whole system going, writing

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the first proposal back in 2001. And I

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was with Ocean Networks Canada for then

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for about 22 years. So long time standing

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as a as an oceanographer, leading the

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science team at Ocean Networks Canada.

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Fantastic. And Cohen, how about yourself?

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Yeah, hello. I'm excited to be here. My

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name is Cohen Bauer and I currently serve

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as the Ocean Networks

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Canada director of science.

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My background has been marine

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biogeochemistry broadly. And so I like to

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think about marine biogeochemical cycle

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in past, present and future scenarios.

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And here at Ocean Networks Canada, one of

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the leads of the science team, our role

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really is to unlock that scientific

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discovery using all the amazing tools

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that Ocean Networks Canada provides the

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data and also the

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physical infrastructure.

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And Gwen, how about yourself?

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Hi, Andrew. I'm Gwen Linterne. I'm a

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research scientist at Natural Resources

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Canada and specifically a part of that

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called the Geological

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Survey of Canada Marine Section.

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And we look at natural hazards. We look

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at all sorts of processes on the seabed.

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And I was lucky enough to be introduced

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to Ocean Networks Canada by my former

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manager, Phil Hill, who put me in charge

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of leading, I guess, one of their their

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sort of major projects from the

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beginning, which was to understand all

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the processes on the Fraser Delta.

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And so I was running that for 16 years

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and it's just been pulled out a year ago.

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Fantastic. Love it. Love it. OK, let's

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get into the whole thing.

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Richard, since you retired, do you

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remember, as you've been part of ONC for

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many years, do you remember what

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initially drew you to Ocean Science and

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then what has actually kept all that

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curiosity to life throughout your career

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and has it continued

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through your retirement?

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Yeah, thanks, Andrew. The it goes a long

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way back. I grew up in Victoria and my

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family sailed on the Sailor Sea all the

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time. We went cruising in the summertime.

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We raced in the winter.

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And so I sort of grew up very familiar

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with being on the water and I did my

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undergraduate at the University of

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Victoria in physics and I knew I wanted

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to go into research, but I

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really didn't know what field.

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And in my last year, you Vic, I had a

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professor who was an oceanographer and he

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said, well, why don't why

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don't you go into oceanography?

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And at that very moment, all the lights

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went green. Everything just clicked.

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Oh, man, I could I could study the ocean.

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I could do something quite relevant. It

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was very practical

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and socially important.

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And I would probably in my career live

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near the ocean and be still able to

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participate in activities and

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recreational things on the ocean.

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So that's what I did. I went into

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oceanography and I managed to come back

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to you, Vic, in the early 1990s. He

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started working in this area and I've

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spent almost my entire career working

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primarily on coastal

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flows and the Sailor Sea.

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So so it's been a lifetime dream to to be

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an oceanography and it's a very

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privileged sort of existence because you

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get to study or many scientists get to

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study what they're most interested in and

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and setting the ocean is very relevant to

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everything we do around here.

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That's amazing. I mean, you've had a long

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career, especially with with O and C. Can

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you remember a time where you were just

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like, this is really incredible, like,

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like a discovery, something that you saw

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where you just like this is this

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epitomizes what I what

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I've been wanting to do.

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I think the biggest impact or the most

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amazing thing working with Oceanic Ridge

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Canada was the fact that we were building

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something with the science community and

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it's a big network of researchers and we

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were enabling new things

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that they wanted to do.

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And it was our job to go away, take their

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ideas, build a system, install it in the

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ocean, get it working and then work with

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them to get scientific discoveries and

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this network of researchers were talking

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about hundreds of researchers doing many,

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many different things.

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And I think that was the continues to be

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one of the most exciting aspects of

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Oceanic Ridge Canada. We're making such a

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big difference to so many researchers

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across the all range of marine science.

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So I think that was unanticipated and was

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rewarding. Amazing. Now, Cohen, you know,

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looking at the way O and C monitors data,

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it really has changed the game in terms

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of the amount of data that comes in and

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what we can really

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understand about the ocean.

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Have you can you describe a moment where

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like you having that real time data led

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to something surprising that or

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unexpected? Yeah, absolutely.

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It's a lot, right? We live the network,

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the ONC network by definition is very

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data rich, right? So we are making

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measurements every second across the

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diversity of ocean environments.

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And so it can be a challenge to really

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keep up to date and monitor all those

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streams that are happening in real time.

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So there comes with an

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intentionality, right?

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And so when when we have a hypothesis or

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a scientific question, it's important to

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follow up on that. And I'll give you an

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example. And so we deployed what's called

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a benthic lander in the deep ocean.

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And this contains some organic

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substrates, one of them being seaweed.

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And we really didn't know what would

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happen to the seaweed in real time as it

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resided in the deep ocean

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in the oxygen minimum zone.

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And so we would just watch the camera

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feed, which is what the experiment was

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about. And and sure enough, just by

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watching this camera every day, different

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deep sea organisms visited the site and

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completely consumed the

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seaweed on very rapid time scales.

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And this was really surprising. And one

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01:09:51,958 --> 01:09:53,541
of the first experiments that we're aware

275
01:09:53,541 --> 01:09:55,416
of that actually observed this in high

276
01:09:55,416 --> 01:09:57,750
resolution. And so this type of

277
01:09:57,750 --> 01:09:59,375
experiment would not have been possible

278
01:09:59,375 --> 01:10:00,875
without the tools and the

279
01:10:00,875 --> 01:10:02,000
network that ONC provides.

280
01:10:02,041 --> 01:10:04,666
And so it feels pretty cool to be

281
01:10:04,666 --> 01:10:06,375
involved in really leading edge science

282
01:10:06,375 --> 01:10:08,666
like that. Yeah, it's incredible. I mean,

283
01:10:08,666 --> 01:10:11,541
with so many instruments in the in the

284
01:10:11,541 --> 01:10:14,083
actual in the water, how do you decide

285
01:10:14,083 --> 01:10:16,458
what data to look at?

286
01:10:16,458 --> 01:10:18,708
Like, how do you prioritize that? Are you

287
01:10:18,708 --> 01:10:20,875
always like, where do you search? What

288
01:10:20,875 --> 01:10:22,000
are you looking for when you look for

289
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,416
something new? How does that all get

290
01:10:24,416 --> 01:10:26,416
disseminated from a science perspective

291
01:10:26,416 --> 01:10:27,958
at Ocean Networks Canada?

292
01:10:28,041 --> 01:10:29,583
I'll start and then and then I think

293
01:10:29,583 --> 01:10:31,041
Richard's one. I mean, yeah, we have an

294
01:10:31,041 --> 01:10:33,333
amazing we have an amazing team at Ocean

295
01:10:33,333 --> 01:10:35,583
Networks Canada. That goes beyond the

296
01:10:35,583 --> 01:10:36,833
science team, right? We have data

297
01:10:36,833 --> 01:10:38,666
specialists that, you know, one of their

298
01:10:38,666 --> 01:10:40,958
primary roles is to really monitor our

299
01:10:40,958 --> 01:10:42,750
data streams and to ensure that those

300
01:10:42,750 --> 01:10:44,000
data streams are of high quality.

301
01:10:44,041 --> 01:10:47,000
And so that I think is the first pass on

302
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:49,083
on just ensuring that we don't have any

303
01:10:49,083 --> 01:10:50,916
issues with instrumentations and that we

304
01:10:50,916 --> 01:10:52,250
are collecting data that can

305
01:10:52,250 --> 01:10:53,875
be robust and interpretable.

306
01:10:54,708 --> 01:10:56,833
And then really, like the data that we

307
01:10:56,833 --> 01:10:58,708
collected is not for ONC, it's for

308
01:10:58,708 --> 01:11:00,833
everybody else. We want everybody else to

309
01:11:00,833 --> 01:11:03,500
make use of this data and to come up and

310
01:11:03,500 --> 01:11:06,375
create knowledge. And so really, then

311
01:11:06,375 --> 01:11:08,000
it's engaging with the scientific

312
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:11,000
community to ask questions and interpret

313
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:12,000
that wealth of data.

314
01:11:12,041 --> 01:11:16,083
I would follow on that was what we rely

315
01:11:16,083 --> 01:11:18,208
on that research community as well to

316
01:11:18,208 --> 01:11:21,000
help us monitor all these channels. Very

317
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,666
often we've installed a system with a

318
01:11:23,666 --> 01:11:25,875
particular subgroup of researchers.

319
01:11:25,875 --> 01:11:28,041
That's their area of interest. So they

320
01:11:28,041 --> 01:11:29,791
may be monitoring those signals more

321
01:11:29,791 --> 01:11:31,666
closely than then we're able to because

322
01:11:31,666 --> 01:11:32,500
we've got hundreds and

323
01:11:32,500 --> 01:11:33,000
hundreds of channels.

324
01:11:34,041 --> 01:11:36,416
And very often they'll contact us and

325
01:11:36,416 --> 01:11:38,666
say, oh, did you guys see this phenomenon

326
01:11:38,666 --> 01:11:41,166
that happened or did you see that in the

327
01:11:41,166 --> 01:11:44,583
camera feed? And it's we then go have a

328
01:11:44,583 --> 01:11:46,500
look at it. We may know that there's

329
01:11:46,500 --> 01:11:47,958
something happening. But then sure

330
01:11:47,958 --> 01:11:49,250
enough, we look at that particular

331
01:11:49,250 --> 01:11:51,083
section of data and

332
01:11:51,083 --> 01:11:53,083
something new is has come about.

333
01:11:53,083 --> 01:11:55,208
So we do rely on our research community

334
01:11:55,208 --> 01:11:57,000
as well to help us

335
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:58,333
monitor all of these channels.

336
01:11:59,041 --> 01:12:01,583
Amazing. And it's interesting when we

337
01:12:01,583 --> 01:12:03,625
talk about all these things that you can

338
01:12:03,625 --> 01:12:06,291
monitor. One thing that comes to mind is

339
01:12:06,291 --> 01:12:09,458
when you and I discuss, we discussed that

340
01:12:09,458 --> 01:12:11,208
the Delta Dynamics Laboratory, can you

341
01:12:11,208 --> 01:12:13,875
just talk about one, like how important

342
01:12:13,875 --> 01:12:17,500
that discovery was and how the whole lab

343
01:12:17,500 --> 01:12:18,000
kind of came together?

344
01:12:19,041 --> 01:12:22,833
Sure. Yeah. If I, I'll back up a little

345
01:12:22,833 --> 01:12:30,125
bit. So the, the, we specifically wanted

346
01:12:30,125 --> 01:12:33,125
to be looking at submarine landslides and

347
01:12:33,125 --> 01:12:35,583
these are events that occurred just, you

348
01:12:35,583 --> 01:12:37,125
know, they could take a few seconds and

349
01:12:37,125 --> 01:12:38,250
they may occur just every

350
01:12:38,250 --> 01:12:39,000
few months or every years.

351
01:12:39,041 --> 01:12:44,250
And so that was the, the power of, of a,

352
01:12:44,250 --> 01:12:48,000
of a, a live observatory is that we could

353
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,000
monitor for years and capture these

354
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:51,500
events to take just seconds.

355
01:12:52,875 --> 01:12:55,000
And nothing else could have allowed us to

356
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:56,125
do that sort of work.

357
01:13:06,041 --> 01:13:06,791
And so we were able to do ocean networks,

358
01:13:06,791 --> 01:13:08,791
Canada with an experiment in mind saying

359
01:13:08,791 --> 01:13:12,250
we'd like to use your network to, to look

360
01:13:12,250 --> 01:13:15,500
at, at these events, Delta events and

361
01:13:15,500 --> 01:13:16,791
submarine landslide events.

362
01:13:17,375 --> 01:13:20,250
And so in that case, we were able to kind

363
01:13:20,250 --> 01:13:22,791
of specify which instruments exactly and,

364
01:13:23,166 --> 01:13:26,458
and even yet, there's still what they,

365
01:13:26,708 --> 01:13:28,583
what we call a fire hose of data coming

366
01:13:28,583 --> 01:13:31,833
at us on these, you know, we have

367
01:13:31,833 --> 01:13:33,708
something like 14 instruments.

368
01:13:35,041 --> 01:13:37,375
And we're putting out data at millisecond

369
01:13:37,375 --> 01:13:41,583
intervals and all year, all year round.

370
01:13:41,583 --> 01:13:43,291
And so there is a fire hose. And so we

371
01:13:43,291 --> 01:13:47,625
kind of prioritize what we're going to

372
01:13:47,625 --> 01:13:49,000
look at. And there's a lot of data that

373
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,875
we won't look at now, but that we'll pass

374
01:13:51,875 --> 01:13:53,000
on to other scientists

375
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:55,000
and other generations even.

376
01:13:55,250 --> 01:14:00,791
So the Delta dynamics lab came about as a

377
01:14:00,791 --> 01:14:03,041
proposal right at the beginning from my

378
01:14:03,041 --> 01:14:08,500
former manager, scientist, Phil Hill, who

379
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:11,625
wanted to look at all the Delta processes

380
01:14:11,625 --> 01:14:14,125
that were taking place on the slope of

381
01:14:14,125 --> 01:14:15,916
the Fraser Delta, an important river

382
01:14:15,916 --> 01:14:19,000
coming out of Vancouver near the airport.

383
01:14:19,125 --> 01:14:24,500
And there was sort of two main platforms.

384
01:14:24,750 --> 01:14:26,333
One was a Delta platform measuring

385
01:14:26,333 --> 01:14:28,666
oceanographic properties. And the second

386
01:14:28,666 --> 01:14:31,875
was one that would penetrate into the

387
01:14:31,875 --> 01:14:35,208
seabed to measure slope properties, slope

388
01:14:35,208 --> 01:14:36,333
stability properties,

389
01:14:36,833 --> 01:14:37,666
and that sort of thing.

390
01:14:38,041 --> 01:14:41,541
The first one, the one that was meant to

391
01:14:41,541 --> 01:14:43,791
be measuring water properties at one

392
01:14:43,791 --> 01:14:47,666
point, it was picked up. Suddenly, we

393
01:14:47,666 --> 01:14:51,291
lost data transmission to it. And in

394
01:14:51,291 --> 01:14:53,000
looking at the data afterwards, we

395
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:54,666
determined that actually it had tumbled

396
01:14:54,666 --> 01:14:57,250
down the slope from from a from an

397
01:14:57,250 --> 01:14:58,500
avalanche, which was one of

398
01:14:58,500 --> 01:15:00,000
the processes we were looking at.

399
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:01,833
But that wasn't the instrument that was

400
01:15:01,833 --> 01:15:07,000
designed to do that. So that was that was sort of the start of the way.

401
01:15:07,041 --> 01:15:10,958
It was the start of another 10 years of

402
01:15:10,958 --> 01:15:13,458
research, specifically on that, that,

403
01:15:13,458 --> 01:15:16,791
that, that we sort of opened up to the

404
01:15:16,791 --> 01:15:19,416
world and we, we became sort of the lead

405
01:15:19,416 --> 01:15:22,333
researchers in the world in that specific

406
01:15:22,333 --> 01:15:25,000
topic of submarine landslides.

407
01:15:25,041 --> 01:15:27,208
And so that, that was obviously an

408
01:15:27,208 --> 01:15:29,583
unexpected event, you know, it led you to

409
01:15:29,583 --> 01:15:32,916
a decade of, of studying and information.

410
01:15:34,083 --> 01:15:35,125
But what did that teach you about the

411
01:15:35,125 --> 01:15:37,458
forces at play in those Delta

412
01:15:37,458 --> 01:15:38,791
environments like, like a

413
01:15:38,791 --> 01:15:40,000
Frasier, like the Frasier River?

414
01:15:40,666 --> 01:15:43,458
Yeah, there were a few sort of new things

415
01:15:43,458 --> 01:15:46,458
in this. I mean, these type of, these

416
01:15:46,458 --> 01:15:48,625
type of underwater avalanches, let's call

417
01:15:48,625 --> 01:15:49,625
them, but they're actually called

418
01:15:49,625 --> 01:15:51,958
turbidity currents, they're, they're a

419
01:15:51,958 --> 01:15:54,208
mass of sediment and water that flow

420
01:15:54,208 --> 01:15:56,625
hundreds of kilometers off coastlines and

421
01:15:56,625 --> 01:15:58,541
can damage cables and

422
01:15:58,541 --> 01:15:59,000
pipelines and that sort of thing.

423
01:15:59,041 --> 01:16:01,625
They were known in the world, but they

424
01:16:01,625 --> 01:16:06,333
were hardly measured at all. And so we

425
01:16:06,333 --> 01:16:08,750
now had this platform that was basically

426
01:16:08,750 --> 01:16:11,416
in the path of these and we, and we were,

427
01:16:11,416 --> 01:16:14,333
you know, we were able to, to, to measure

428
01:16:14,333 --> 01:16:17,750
the properties of them, but also the

429
01:16:17,750 --> 01:16:21,041
frequencies, what they sort of what they

430
01:16:21,041 --> 01:16:22,208
look like, the power

431
01:16:22,208 --> 01:16:23,916
structures and these sorts of things.

432
01:16:25,625 --> 01:16:29,791
And so it really did also in this case,

433
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,541
these were known to occur in submarine

434
01:16:32,541 --> 01:16:35,791
canyons. And they were canyons, you know,

435
01:16:35,958 --> 01:16:37,791
that's how canyons are formed often with

436
01:16:37,791 --> 01:16:38,958
these kind of repeated

437
01:16:38,958 --> 01:16:40,500
avalanches running through them.

438
01:16:41,458 --> 01:16:42,916
But in this case, this platform is

439
01:16:42,916 --> 01:16:47,250
actually on the outside of a canyon on

440
01:16:47,250 --> 01:16:50,541
just on bare slope of a delta. So that

441
01:16:50,541 --> 01:16:53,083
was, that was new to science to be

442
01:16:53,083 --> 01:16:56,500
measuring these things on just a just an

443
01:16:56,500 --> 01:16:57,541
open slope like that.

444
01:17:00,041 --> 01:17:05,500
And now that we now that we can know that

445
01:17:05,500 --> 01:17:07,500
they occur here, we've actually started

446
01:17:07,500 --> 01:17:09,583
to be able to predict them based on tides

447
01:17:09,583 --> 01:17:13,375
and how the rivers, how much sediment is

448
01:17:13,375 --> 01:17:14,125
coming out of the river

449
01:17:14,125 --> 01:17:15,000
and that sort of thing.

450
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,041
And we can sort of go from almost having

451
01:17:17,041 --> 01:17:19,833
no measurements in the world to now

452
01:17:19,833 --> 01:17:22,208
practically predicting them just in that

453
01:17:22,208 --> 01:17:23,958
10 years of research

454
01:17:23,958 --> 01:17:25,750
on the on the network.

455
01:17:26,041 --> 01:17:29,166
I remember when, yeah, I guess a little

456
01:17:29,166 --> 01:17:31,458
story there I remember when Phil and Gwen

457
01:17:31,458 --> 01:17:33,708
came to us as as the builders and

458
01:17:33,708 --> 01:17:36,583
operators as O and C of the observatory.

459
01:17:37,208 --> 01:17:38,875
And they explained this experiment to us

460
01:17:38,875 --> 01:17:40,250
and they said, yeah, we want we'd like to

461
01:17:40,250 --> 01:17:42,000
be like to put these instruments down on

462
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,250
the slope and measure data for a few

463
01:17:44,250 --> 01:17:45,958
years. And then we're just hoping that a

464
01:17:45,958 --> 01:17:47,708
landslide comes and takes them all out.

465
01:17:48,291 --> 01:17:50,166
And it was a bit of a shock to us because

466
01:17:50,166 --> 01:17:51,958
here we were investing all this effort

467
01:17:51,958 --> 01:17:53,833
and money. And one of the things we tried

468
01:17:53,833 --> 01:17:55,833
to do is make sure these instruments

469
01:17:55,833 --> 01:17:58,708
aren't lost and don't get carried away.

470
01:17:59,125 --> 01:18:01,041
And they stay there and say, and this

471
01:18:01,041 --> 01:18:03,583
whole experiment was an attempt to to

472
01:18:03,583 --> 01:18:05,583
say, no, we want we want we want a

473
01:18:05,583 --> 01:18:06,916
disaster to happen and

474
01:18:06,916 --> 01:18:08,000
turn up several times.

475
01:18:08,041 --> 01:18:11,500
Yeah, I would just say it was it's kind

476
01:18:11,500 --> 01:18:14,500
of like a beautiful closing the loop here

477
01:18:14,500 --> 01:18:16,708
in that, you know, Gwen and Richard are

478
01:18:16,708 --> 01:18:18,500
mentioning that this this work had been

479
01:18:18,500 --> 01:18:19,916
carried out for over a decade.

480
01:18:20,625 --> 01:18:24,000
And I'm the newest person to

481
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:25,458
own see on this call. Right.

482
01:18:26,041 --> 01:18:28,375
And so I came in and I wasn't involved in

483
01:18:28,375 --> 01:18:30,000
the inception of this experiment, but I

484
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,166
was on the ship when the experiment was

485
01:18:32,166 --> 01:18:33,750
recovered last year. So kind of

486
01:18:33,750 --> 01:18:35,833
bookending this and and then being

487
01:18:35,833 --> 01:18:37,750
described all the discoveries that came

488
01:18:37,750 --> 01:18:39,333
out of this work and then seeing this

489
01:18:39,333 --> 01:18:41,791
platform come out of the ocean in real

490
01:18:41,791 --> 01:18:42,541
time was like a

491
01:18:42,541 --> 01:18:44,125
really special experience.

492
01:18:44,375 --> 01:18:46,833
Right. And just being connected to

493
01:18:46,833 --> 01:18:49,041
experiments that I wasn't involved in

494
01:18:49,041 --> 01:18:52,083
directly, but it's so informative and a

495
01:18:52,083 --> 01:18:53,583
great learning experience. So I felt

496
01:18:53,583 --> 01:18:54,625
really lucky to be there.

497
01:18:55,541 --> 01:18:57,541
Yeah, I can imagine it and going like

498
01:18:57,541 --> 01:18:59,500
take me through that part where you

499
01:18:59,500 --> 01:19:02,500
retrieve the the the instrumentation

500
01:19:02,500 --> 01:19:04,875
after, you know, losing it and then

501
01:19:04,875 --> 01:19:06,375
you're going through the data.

502
01:19:07,458 --> 01:19:09,916
You know what? What is your reaction when

503
01:19:09,916 --> 01:19:13,083
you realize when it happened and what had

504
01:19:13,083 --> 01:19:14,833
happened? What like what goes through

505
01:19:14,833 --> 01:19:15,750
your mind when you see

506
01:19:15,750 --> 01:19:18,000
that the Eureka moment?

507
01:19:19,041 --> 01:19:23,125
Yeah. So it's a little bit. It's a little

508
01:19:23,125 --> 01:19:24,000
bit of a slow process.

509
01:19:24,041 --> 01:19:26,208
So this took years to get to this point,

510
01:19:26,458 --> 01:19:28,000
building the platforms, getting down.

511
01:19:29,958 --> 01:19:32,125
And then, of course, we lose the signal

512
01:19:32,125 --> 01:19:35,791
from this large major installation on on

513
01:19:35,791 --> 01:19:38,833
on the ocean that was Canada. We lose the

514
01:19:38,833 --> 01:19:42,375
signal and the all of the engineers and

515
01:19:42,375 --> 01:19:43,791
the managers and all the people, as

516
01:19:43,791 --> 01:19:45,750
Richard said, are are concerned.

517
01:19:46,041 --> 01:19:47,875
How are we what's happened? How and so

518
01:19:47,875 --> 01:19:49,458
they're looking into what's happened. How

519
01:19:49,458 --> 01:19:50,166
are we going to get this

520
01:19:50,166 --> 01:19:52,000
back and that sort of thing.

521
01:19:52,291 --> 01:19:54,541
And as scientists, we're sort of looking

522
01:19:54,541 --> 01:19:56,666
at each other thinking, could this be

523
01:19:56,666 --> 01:20:01,083
could this be it? And and so we, you

524
01:20:01,083 --> 01:20:04,166
know, we spent a few days going through

525
01:20:04,166 --> 01:20:07,500
all of the last few seconds of data and

526
01:20:07,500 --> 01:20:10,250
and eventually, you know, eventually you

527
01:20:10,250 --> 01:20:13,000
just I think that the main one.

528
01:20:14,125 --> 01:20:16,083
It's all tangled because the instrument

529
01:20:16,083 --> 01:20:18,666
was tumbling. But once we saw that, you

530
01:20:18,666 --> 01:20:20,500
know, the instrument had tumbled, you

531
01:20:20,500 --> 01:20:22,208
could see that clearly in the pressure

532
01:20:22,208 --> 01:20:23,208
data that the instrument

533
01:20:23,208 --> 01:20:24,500
was tumbling down the slope.

534
01:20:25,541 --> 01:20:27,208
And once we put it all together, you sort

535
01:20:27,208 --> 01:20:29,833
of, I guess you ask what it's like if you

536
01:20:29,833 --> 01:20:32,041
kind of at that point, you sort of lean

537
01:20:32,041 --> 01:20:33,875
back in your chair and clap your hands

538
01:20:33,875 --> 01:20:36,500
together and say this, this is it.

539
01:20:37,041 --> 01:20:40,708
This is what we we had. We had some idea

540
01:20:40,708 --> 01:20:42,166
that this could occur on the Fraser

541
01:20:42,166 --> 01:20:44,916
Delta. We we had seen sand waves before

542
01:20:44,916 --> 01:20:46,666
that indicate that sentiment's moving in

543
01:20:46,666 --> 01:20:48,458
a single direction, just

544
01:20:48,458 --> 01:20:50,000
like sand dunes on land.

545
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:51,833
And we we'd sort of seen evidence that

546
01:20:51,833 --> 01:20:55,666
these could occur. And and so it was it's

547
01:20:55,666 --> 01:20:58,291
it's kind of a big moment in your career

548
01:20:58,291 --> 01:21:00,750
to be working towards something and then

549
01:21:00,750 --> 01:21:03,000
and then be able to just say that is it.

550
01:21:03,041 --> 01:21:06,916
We have irrefutable proof. Yeah, I can

551
01:21:06,916 --> 01:21:09,666
imagine. This is this is great. And I'm

552
01:21:09,666 --> 01:21:11,791
sure we could do an entire episode on the

553
01:21:11,791 --> 01:21:14,000
Delta on the Delta Dynamics Laboratory.

554
01:21:14,333 --> 01:21:16,000
But we're going to switch over to a

555
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:17,583
little bit, Richard. I want to talk about

556
01:21:17,583 --> 01:21:20,041
acoustic sound and the acoustic

557
01:21:20,041 --> 01:21:21,541
instrumentation that I want to use is

558
01:21:21,541 --> 01:21:24,250
now, from my perspective, like in my work

559
01:21:24,250 --> 01:21:26,583
that I've done, you know, I've done some

560
01:21:26,583 --> 01:21:28,500
work with, you know, acoustics when we

561
01:21:28,500 --> 01:21:29,458
look at tracking

562
01:21:29,458 --> 01:21:31,000
marine mammals and so forth.

563
01:21:31,041 --> 01:21:33,625
We know around around oil and gas

564
01:21:33,625 --> 01:21:35,791
installations and things like that. But

565
01:21:35,791 --> 01:21:37,916
for O and C, like what are some of the

566
01:21:37,916 --> 01:21:39,791
the I guess the most memorable or

567
01:21:39,791 --> 01:21:42,500
mysterious sounds that that that O and C

568
01:21:42,500 --> 01:21:44,041
has recorded on the sea floor?

569
01:21:44,333 --> 01:21:45,791
Because this is something I don't think

570
01:21:45,791 --> 01:21:47,708
people realize that the sounds that are

571
01:21:47,708 --> 01:21:50,250
coming from the sea floor. Right. Well,

572
01:21:50,250 --> 01:21:53,125
we have the hydrophones either on the

573
01:21:53,125 --> 01:21:55,041
water microphones, basically. Yeah. And

574
01:21:55,041 --> 01:21:56,000
they're extremely sensitive.

575
01:21:57,041 --> 01:22:00,083
And they can measure the pinkest sounds.

576
01:22:00,791 --> 01:22:03,125
And so they're seeming or they're seeing

577
01:22:03,125 --> 01:22:04,083
a horizon, if you

578
01:22:04,083 --> 01:22:05,416
like, that is very large.

579
01:22:06,708 --> 01:22:08,500
They can hear things that may be

580
01:22:08,500 --> 01:22:10,458
kilometers away. And in the coastal

581
01:22:10,458 --> 01:22:13,000
waters, like the Strait of Georgia, you

582
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:14,875
sort of have a background in of almost

583
01:22:14,875 --> 01:22:17,083
continuous ferry traffic and greater

584
01:22:17,083 --> 01:22:19,000
traffic and superimposed on that.

585
01:22:19,041 --> 01:22:21,625
Occasionally, we get the orca whale

586
01:22:21,625 --> 01:22:23,916
vocalizations. So that's pretty exciting,

587
01:22:23,916 --> 01:22:25,750
like you're talking about when when we're

588
01:22:25,750 --> 01:22:28,291
seeing we're hearing marine mammals and

589
01:22:28,291 --> 01:22:32,916
then offshore, we have hydrophones at

590
01:22:32,916 --> 01:22:36,291
places like the Endeavor Ridge, where

591
01:22:36,291 --> 01:22:37,875
there's earthquakes and

592
01:22:37,875 --> 01:22:39,000
other other things happening.

593
01:22:39,041 --> 01:22:41,833
There's there's events, hot vents, black

594
01:22:41,833 --> 01:22:45,416
smokers, and you can actually hear what

595
01:22:45,416 --> 01:22:47,875
sort of a venting sound and you can hear

596
01:22:47,875 --> 01:22:50,875
earthquakes. We often have earthquake

597
01:22:50,875 --> 01:22:52,541
sensors that are really feeling the

598
01:22:52,541 --> 01:22:54,833
movement of the earth. But earthquakes

599
01:22:54,833 --> 01:22:56,208
also generate sound.

600
01:23:03,041 --> 01:23:06,041
And so our hydrophones are picking up

601
01:23:06,041 --> 01:23:08,750
earthquake sounds grumbling and venting

602
01:23:08,750 --> 01:23:11,458
on a continuous basis. So one thing I can

603
01:23:11,458 --> 01:23:13,458
come back to sort of this idea of what

604
01:23:13,458 --> 01:23:16,541
was surprising is that how continuous

605
01:23:16,541 --> 01:23:18,791
sounds are throughout the ocean, whether

606
01:23:18,791 --> 01:23:20,000
you're in coastal waters

607
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:21,000
or even deep in the ocean.

608
01:23:21,041 --> 01:23:23,666
There's a lot of sound, and it's

609
01:23:23,666 --> 01:23:27,250
pervasive, and it's there over time. And

610
01:23:27,250 --> 01:23:31,166
it's not quiet. I mean, often, most

611
01:23:31,166 --> 01:23:33,500
people are coming in this from going way

612
01:23:33,500 --> 01:23:35,375
back again, look at the ocean and go, Oh,

613
01:23:35,375 --> 01:23:36,541
I see the ocean and it's

614
01:23:36,541 --> 01:23:37,583
just this flat surface.

615
01:23:38,041 --> 01:23:39,875
And then, you know, if you're a scuba

616
01:23:39,875 --> 01:23:41,416
diver, you know, there's a lot more

617
01:23:41,416 --> 01:23:43,666
happening underneath the water. And this

618
01:23:43,666 --> 01:23:46,291
was sort of this is how what we've been

619
01:23:46,291 --> 01:23:48,625
able to do is open up this mystery of

620
01:23:48,625 --> 01:23:50,958
what's happening deep in the ocean. And

621
01:23:50,958 --> 01:23:53,500
it's a very dynamic environment and sound

622
01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:54,875
propagates a long way.

623
01:23:55,500 --> 01:23:57,166
So we're doing things from maybe

624
01:23:57,166 --> 01:24:00,125
kilometers away. And it's very, I

625
01:24:00,125 --> 01:24:02,333
wouldn't say it's noisy, but it's the

626
01:24:02,333 --> 01:24:05,291
sound almost all the time from all these

627
01:24:05,291 --> 01:24:06,000
different processes.

628
01:24:06,041 --> 01:24:09,083
How does listening to the sort of the

629
01:24:09,083 --> 01:24:10,958
listening to like ocean changes, like

630
01:24:10,958 --> 01:24:13,166
earthquakes and things like that? How

631
01:24:13,166 --> 01:24:15,000
does that help us, you know, understand

632
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:16,583
what's happening in the places we can't

633
01:24:16,583 --> 01:24:18,583
see? Like, how does that help us for

634
01:24:18,583 --> 01:24:19,666
overall science and

635
01:24:19,666 --> 01:24:20,958
overall understanding of ocean?

636
01:24:21,750 --> 01:24:24,000
It's telling us how dynamic the ocean is.

637
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:26,000
I mean, if we don't have those those

638
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:28,666
indicators, we might think it's just it's

639
01:24:28,666 --> 01:24:30,333
a flat ocean on the top, we can't see

640
01:24:30,333 --> 01:24:30,958
what's happening down

641
01:24:30,958 --> 01:24:32,000
below. Nothing's happening.

642
01:24:32,541 --> 01:24:34,791
But but the sound and our sensors are

643
01:24:34,791 --> 01:24:37,875
really telling us and the platform we put

644
01:24:37,875 --> 01:24:39,583
down like the Delta site, but we have

645
01:24:39,583 --> 01:24:42,208
these platforms across the network are

646
01:24:42,208 --> 01:24:44,500
telling us that there are variations in

647
01:24:44,500 --> 01:24:46,083
what's happening all the time.

648
01:24:46,750 --> 01:24:49,000
And the sound gives us a big horizon. We

649
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:52,250
can see again, maybe here, kilometers

650
01:24:52,250 --> 01:24:54,666
away. All these other sensors are

651
01:24:54,666 --> 01:24:56,375
measuring cameras, for example, are

652
01:24:56,375 --> 01:24:57,666
making a local processes.

653
01:24:58,291 --> 01:25:00,208
But almost everywhere we put down the

654
01:25:00,208 --> 01:25:02,291
sensors, things are happening all the

655
01:25:02,291 --> 01:25:05,250
time. And that's, again, the power of the

656
01:25:05,250 --> 01:25:06,541
observatory. It's we're not putting

657
01:25:06,541 --> 01:25:08,250
something down and turning the lights on

658
01:25:08,250 --> 01:25:09,250
or turning the

659
01:25:09,250 --> 01:25:11,208
instruments on once a week.

660
01:25:11,666 --> 01:25:14,125
It's continuous. We're listening to it 24

661
01:25:14,125 --> 01:25:18,125
seven, 52 weeks a year for 20 years. And

662
01:25:18,125 --> 01:25:20,250
what you realize is that the ocean is

663
01:25:20,250 --> 01:25:21,416
incredibly dynamic

664
01:25:21,416 --> 01:25:22,000
all the time everywhere.

665
01:25:22,041 --> 01:25:24,416
Yeah, go ahead, Gwen.

666
01:25:25,125 --> 01:25:27,791
I'd like to give a specific example of

667
01:25:27,791 --> 01:25:30,000
what Richard's talking about the aerial

668
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:33,000
extent of sound because we're measuring

669
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:34,833
these landslides, but you kind of have to

670
01:25:34,833 --> 01:25:37,000
be right on them to measure them and they put your instruments at risk.

671
01:25:37,041 --> 01:25:41,750
And so our partners around the world have

672
01:25:41,750 --> 01:25:45,166
been putting instruments in canyons on

673
01:25:45,166 --> 01:25:47,875
the request of oil companies or cable

674
01:25:47,875 --> 01:25:51,541
companies to determine how frequently

675
01:25:51,541 --> 01:25:54,750
these type of turbidity currents is what

676
01:25:54,750 --> 01:25:56,000
they're called these underwater

677
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:57,750
landslides, how frequently

678
01:25:57,750 --> 01:26:00,000
they occur and how large they are.

679
01:26:00,750 --> 01:26:04,166
And so we, you know, we and that

680
01:26:04,166 --> 01:26:06,375
basically almost every time the

681
01:26:06,375 --> 01:26:08,125
instruments get wiped out and tumble down

682
01:26:08,125 --> 01:26:10,125
the slope and you it's hard and it's

683
01:26:10,125 --> 01:26:12,208
often you don't even get the data back

684
01:26:12,208 --> 01:26:13,333
because it wasn't

685
01:26:13,333 --> 01:26:14,500
cable transmitting life.

686
01:26:15,250 --> 01:26:17,166
And so we've started using hydro phones

687
01:26:17,166 --> 01:26:19,791
now to measure the sound of the

688
01:26:19,791 --> 01:26:22,958
landslides near them or even at a

689
01:26:22,958 --> 01:26:25,791
distance and started to get records of

690
01:26:25,791 --> 01:26:28,500
OK, now we can now we can put these kind

691
01:26:28,500 --> 01:26:30,958
of out of the way and safely measure the

692
01:26:30,958 --> 01:26:34,500
sounds of landslides, not only on these

693
01:26:34,500 --> 01:26:36,416
sediment slopes like we were talking

694
01:26:36,416 --> 01:26:39,083
about earlier, but in areas like the

695
01:26:39,083 --> 01:26:40,500
fjords of British Columbia.

696
01:26:41,625 --> 01:26:43,750
So we've deployed hydro phones there too,

697
01:26:44,041 --> 01:26:47,833
or ONC have hydro phones on in various

698
01:26:47,833 --> 01:26:50,583
places in the fjords of British Columbia

699
01:26:50,583 --> 01:26:52,750
and we've used them for listening for

700
01:26:52,750 --> 01:26:55,250
landslides dropping, rock slides dropping

701
01:26:55,250 --> 01:26:56,541
into the ocean, which could

702
01:26:56,541 --> 01:26:59,000
cause major tsunamis as well.

703
01:26:59,041 --> 01:27:01,916
So so we're using them as a kind of

704
01:27:01,916 --> 01:27:04,666
regional assessment tool to determine how

705
01:27:04,666 --> 01:27:06,875
large landslides are, how frequently they

706
01:27:06,875 --> 01:27:09,833
occur and and whether they could be used

707
01:27:09,833 --> 01:27:13,000
as an early warning to tsunamis.

708
01:27:14,041 --> 01:27:15,958
Sometimes you pick up things

709
01:27:15,958 --> 01:27:16,791
that you weren't expecting.

710
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:19,583
Like we had the first hydro phone was in

711
01:27:19,583 --> 01:27:22,041
Sandwich Inlet and it turns out it's near

712
01:27:22,041 --> 01:27:24,333
an airport and we could hear planes

713
01:27:24,333 --> 01:27:26,500
flying overhead and we could in

714
01:27:26,500 --> 01:27:28,083
particular if there was a sea plane

715
01:27:28,083 --> 01:27:30,875
taking off or landing, you could hear you

716
01:27:30,875 --> 01:27:32,000
can hear the sea plane.

717
01:27:32,500 --> 01:27:33,500
How far down was this

718
01:27:33,500 --> 01:27:34,000
hydro phone that you can hear?

719
01:27:34,041 --> 01:27:37,166
About a hundred meters down and you hear

720
01:27:37,166 --> 01:27:40,250
the sea plane start up and as we've seen

721
01:27:40,250 --> 01:27:42,958
a sea plane take off, it ramps up and

722
01:27:42,958 --> 01:27:45,708
then leaves the water so the sound

723
01:27:45,708 --> 01:27:47,333
changes as it goes into the air.

724
01:27:47,833 --> 01:27:49,041
The other hydro phone that I think was

725
01:27:49,041 --> 01:27:51,041
really quite fun to listen to was when we

726
01:27:51,041 --> 01:27:52,958
installed in Cambridge Bay up in the

727
01:27:52,958 --> 01:27:55,416
Arctic, in the Canadian Arctic and at

728
01:27:55,416 --> 01:27:56,291
this site it gets

729
01:27:56,291 --> 01:27:57,000
frozen over in the winter.

730
01:27:58,041 --> 01:28:01,083
And we anticipated that we might hear

731
01:28:01,083 --> 01:28:02,500
some ice cracking and that

732
01:28:02,500 --> 01:28:05,583
was sort of scary to hear.

733
01:28:05,916 --> 01:28:07,666
You wonder because it's sort of a real

734
01:28:07,666 --> 01:28:10,541
violent cracking sound as the ice cracks.

735
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:13,708
But then also as the ice got thicker, the

736
01:28:13,708 --> 01:28:16,000
community started to drive on the ice,

737
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:17,791
both in cars and in snowmobiles.

738
01:28:18,416 --> 01:28:20,333
And so the pervasive sound later in the

739
01:28:20,333 --> 01:28:22,666
winter was all the community driving on

740
01:28:22,666 --> 01:28:23,583
top of the ice in

741
01:28:23,583 --> 01:28:24,000
their snowmobiles and cars.

742
01:28:24,041 --> 01:28:27,958
So we had not anticipated that and that

743
01:28:27,958 --> 01:28:30,041
gave us sort of a window into the

744
01:28:30,041 --> 01:28:32,875
community going out on the ice and using

745
01:28:32,875 --> 01:28:34,208
the ice as a highway.

746
01:28:34,875 --> 01:28:36,583
I love that. I think that's awesome.

747
01:28:38,458 --> 01:28:41,500
What has Richard, when we talked earlier,

748
01:28:41,916 --> 01:28:45,958
you mentioned, you know, the Salish Sea,

749
01:28:45,958 --> 01:28:47,333
which is, you know, the promise that's

750
01:28:47,333 --> 01:28:51,000
around there has is remarkably healthy.

751
01:28:51,041 --> 01:28:54,541
What what are those key oceanographic

752
01:28:54,541 --> 01:28:57,583
features that that make it so healthy?

753
01:28:57,916 --> 01:28:59,041
Because, you know, when we think about

754
01:28:59,041 --> 01:29:00,833
oceans, a lot of them, we think that

755
01:29:00,833 --> 01:29:01,541
they're in dire need.

756
01:29:01,958 --> 01:29:04,416
And what makes Salish Sea so special that

757
01:29:04,416 --> 01:29:05,583
it could be so resilient?

758
01:29:06,458 --> 01:29:07,833
Well, there are there are a lot of places

759
01:29:07,833 --> 01:29:09,041
in the in the ocean that we

760
01:29:09,041 --> 01:29:09,958
should be concerned about.

761
01:29:10,416 --> 01:29:12,291
And one of the processes that leads to

762
01:29:12,291 --> 01:29:13,833
this is when the ocean water gets

763
01:29:13,833 --> 01:29:16,000
stagnant and doesn't renew.

764
01:29:16,041 --> 01:29:20,583
You can consume all the nutrients and

765
01:29:20,583 --> 01:29:21,625
maybe through

766
01:29:21,625 --> 01:29:23,500
respiration consume all the oxygen.

767
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:25,958
And so water that isn't renewed can

768
01:29:25,958 --> 01:29:27,000
become sort of we call

769
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:28,333
them dead zones in the ocean.

770
01:29:29,166 --> 01:29:31,416
But it turns out with the Salish Sea, we

771
01:29:31,416 --> 01:29:34,125
have two large inputs of water.

772
01:29:34,125 --> 01:29:35,791
We have rain in the winter. So all the

773
01:29:35,791 --> 01:29:36,500
coastal rivers

774
01:29:36,500 --> 01:29:38,416
discharged a lot of fresh water.

775
01:29:38,416 --> 01:29:40,125
And in the summer in May and June, we

776
01:29:40,125 --> 01:29:42,916
have the Fraser River discharging a lot

777
01:29:42,916 --> 01:29:44,083
of the snow melt from the

778
01:29:44,083 --> 01:29:45,291
interior of British Columbia.

779
01:29:46,041 --> 01:29:47,416
And all this fresh water has to

780
01:29:47,416 --> 01:29:48,250
eventually make its way

781
01:29:48,250 --> 01:29:49,500
out into the Pacific Ocean.

782
01:29:49,750 --> 01:29:51,416
If it didn't, then the Salish Sea would

783
01:29:51,416 --> 01:29:52,541
become fresh eventually.

784
01:29:53,208 --> 01:29:54,750
And it's in its migration

785
01:29:54,750 --> 01:29:56,208
out to the Pacific Ocean.

786
01:29:56,208 --> 01:29:58,541
We also have strong tides. And the

787
01:29:58,541 --> 01:30:00,250
combination of these two processes, the

788
01:30:00,250 --> 01:30:02,208
estrine circulation and the strong tides,

789
01:30:02,541 --> 01:30:04,291
gives rise to a very large

790
01:30:04,291 --> 01:30:05,750
exchange with the Pacific Ocean.

791
01:30:06,166 --> 01:30:07,750
We have a large volume of water flowing

792
01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:10,000
out of the surface and an almost equally

793
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:12,166
large volume of water flowing in that

794
01:30:12,166 --> 01:30:13,583
depth in one of the

795
01:30:13,583 --> 01:30:15,250
straight deep at the bottom.

796
01:30:16,041 --> 01:30:17,416
And the water that's coming into the

797
01:30:17,416 --> 01:30:18,291
Salish Sea in large

798
01:30:18,291 --> 01:30:20,500
volumes is full of nutrients.

799
01:30:21,083 --> 01:30:23,416
And the tidal mixing brings down oxygen

800
01:30:23,416 --> 01:30:24,958
and aerates the water.

801
01:30:25,541 --> 01:30:27,875
And as a result, these inner basins like

802
01:30:27,875 --> 01:30:30,250
the Strait of Georgia have a continuous

803
01:30:30,250 --> 01:30:32,083
supply of nutrients and get

804
01:30:32,083 --> 01:30:33,958
reoxygenated on a regular basis.

805
01:30:34,666 --> 01:30:37,750
And so for many inland seas, if the water

806
01:30:37,750 --> 01:30:39,916
is stagnant and sort of doesn't exchange,

807
01:30:40,458 --> 01:30:43,333
it becomes really sort of a dead and

808
01:30:43,333 --> 01:30:44,000
lifeless environment.

809
01:30:44,041 --> 01:30:46,541
But the Salish Sea has this wonderful

810
01:30:46,541 --> 01:30:48,125
combination of a large estrine

811
01:30:48,125 --> 01:30:50,250
circulation and strong tides, which

812
01:30:50,250 --> 01:30:53,000
results in a very active exchange with

813
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:54,833
the Pacific Ocean, brings in

814
01:30:54,833 --> 01:30:56,708
nutrients, aerates the water.

815
01:30:57,166 --> 01:30:58,791
And so we have lots of nutrients and lots

816
01:30:58,791 --> 01:31:00,625
of oxygen, which is just what a good

817
01:31:00,625 --> 01:31:02,791
habitat would need to be healthy.

818
01:31:04,041 --> 01:31:06,750
And like, has ONC contributed to that

819
01:31:06,750 --> 01:31:09,416
information in terms of knowing all this

820
01:31:09,416 --> 01:31:10,000
stuff coming in and out?

821
01:31:10,041 --> 01:31:13,458
Absolutely. There's a researcher in

822
01:31:13,458 --> 01:31:14,916
particular, Rich Polovich at the

823
01:31:14,916 --> 01:31:16,500
University of British Columbia, who's

824
01:31:16,500 --> 01:31:18,208
been with us for a very long time.

825
01:31:18,208 --> 01:31:19,708
He's been originally

826
01:31:19,708 --> 01:31:21,000
designing the system.

827
01:31:21,625 --> 01:31:24,041
And he's worked up a majority of the data

828
01:31:24,041 --> 01:31:26,333
for the Strait of Georgia that has really

829
01:31:26,333 --> 01:31:28,708
captured and quantified this deep water

830
01:31:28,708 --> 01:31:29,666
renewal and the deep

831
01:31:29,666 --> 01:31:30,833
water exchange processes.

832
01:31:31,041 --> 01:31:33,541
And he's got about a half a dozen

833
01:31:33,541 --> 01:31:36,625
publications that are really showing the

834
01:31:36,625 --> 01:31:39,375
enlightenment of this and demonstrate how

835
01:31:39,375 --> 01:31:41,500
the observatory has contributed to our

836
01:31:41,500 --> 01:31:43,958
understanding of this key process.

837
01:31:44,500 --> 01:31:45,000
Fantastic.

838
01:31:45,041 --> 01:31:47,541
Cohen, for the Salish Sea, like looking

839
01:31:47,541 --> 01:31:53,000
forward, and what is the, what are the

840
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:56,458
opportunities for ONC to really help have

841
01:31:56,458 --> 01:31:58,416
an even better understanding of the

842
01:31:58,416 --> 01:31:59,666
Salish Sea and its future

843
01:31:59,666 --> 01:32:02,166
for to keep it a healthy sea?

844
01:32:03,625 --> 01:32:04,000
Yeah, it's a great question.

845
01:32:05,041 --> 01:32:09,041
Recently, just this past summer, ONC

846
01:32:09,041 --> 01:32:12,416
convened a diverse community of

847
01:32:12,416 --> 01:32:15,791
researchers, NGOs, government

848
01:32:15,791 --> 01:32:18,916
organizations, coastal communities at ONC

849
01:32:18,916 --> 01:32:21,458
to talk about the future of the ONC

850
01:32:21,458 --> 01:32:22,791
observing system in this

851
01:32:22,791 --> 01:32:24,000
context of the Salish Sea.

852
01:32:24,041 --> 01:32:27,083
And so it was a really enlightening

853
01:32:27,083 --> 01:32:29,166
workshop with a lot of contributions from

854
01:32:29,166 --> 01:32:31,291
from our diverse community. And it was

855
01:32:31,291 --> 01:32:33,666
exactly asking that question. How does

856
01:32:33,666 --> 01:32:36,833
the ONC facility evolve and continue to

857
01:32:36,833 --> 01:32:38,958
contribute the observations and tools

858
01:32:38,958 --> 01:32:41,583
needed to ensure that the Salish Sea

859
01:32:41,583 --> 01:32:42,708
remains a healthy ecosystem?

860
01:32:44,166 --> 01:32:45,500
One of the interesting things that came

861
01:32:45,500 --> 01:32:48,416
up in that discussion is when you have

862
01:32:48,416 --> 01:32:50,541
this wealth of data, how do you

863
01:32:50,541 --> 01:32:53,291
operationalize it to learn something or

864
01:32:53,291 --> 01:32:57,083
to, you know, for lack of a better way of

865
01:32:57,083 --> 01:32:59,375
saying it, manage the Salish Sea so that

866
01:32:59,375 --> 01:33:01,750
again, it remains, it can

867
01:33:01,750 --> 01:33:03,708
be stewarded and protected.

868
01:33:04,375 --> 01:33:07,041
And this concept of a digital twin came

869
01:33:07,041 --> 01:33:11,041
up. And so this is, you know, a frontier

870
01:33:11,041 --> 01:33:13,833
sort of space in the big data and

871
01:33:13,833 --> 01:33:16,750
modeling world. And a digital twin is a

872
01:33:16,750 --> 01:33:19,250
model of a natural environment, or it

873
01:33:19,250 --> 01:33:21,541
could be a model of many models.

874
01:33:22,375 --> 01:33:24,208
And so what you need to make an accurate

875
01:33:24,208 --> 01:33:27,500
model is is robust data observations that

876
01:33:27,500 --> 01:33:29,500
tell you how the ocean environment is

877
01:33:29,500 --> 01:33:31,750
behaving and how these processes are

878
01:33:31,750 --> 01:33:34,458
interacting. And so one way I think that

879
01:33:34,458 --> 01:33:37,250
ONC could intersect with this sort of

880
01:33:37,250 --> 01:33:39,875
predictive modeling or digital twin style

881
01:33:39,875 --> 01:33:41,291
model of this region of

882
01:33:41,291 --> 01:33:43,375
this of this urban sea seaway

883
01:33:44,041 --> 01:33:46,708
is to just ensure that we have the right

884
01:33:46,708 --> 01:33:48,666
observations in the right places and

885
01:33:48,666 --> 01:33:50,791
those observations and that data is of

886
01:33:50,791 --> 01:33:53,958
high quality. So, you know, us being an

887
01:33:53,958 --> 01:33:55,833
infrastructure provider, it's really

888
01:33:55,833 --> 01:33:58,125
connecting with the community to ensure

889
01:33:58,125 --> 01:34:00,125
that we have the right tools in the right

890
01:34:00,125 --> 01:34:02,500
places, right? At the Fraser River Delta,

891
01:34:03,166 --> 01:34:05,500
in the urban sea ways of the Vancouver

892
01:34:05,500 --> 01:34:07,958
ports, for example, in Santa Chinlet,

893
01:34:08,291 --> 01:34:10,208
right? Where should these tools be and

894
01:34:10,208 --> 01:34:11,750
what should they be comprised of so that

895
01:34:11,750 --> 01:34:13,541
we can continue to provide the data

896
01:34:14,291 --> 01:34:14,458
and the

897
01:34:14,458 --> 01:34:16,791
well into the future that people in the

898
01:34:16,791 --> 01:34:18,083
sailor sea will rely on.

899
01:34:18,875 --> 01:34:20,500
Yeah, amazing. And I think also too, when

900
01:34:20,500 --> 01:34:21,708
you think about not just from a local

901
01:34:21,708 --> 01:34:23,250
aspect, but also from an international

902
01:34:23,250 --> 01:34:25,875
aspect, you know, a number of years ago,

903
01:34:25,875 --> 01:34:27,166
there was this phenomenon in

904
01:34:27,166 --> 01:34:28,416
the Pacific called the blob.

905
01:34:28,916 --> 01:34:30,833
And, you know, it came down and it heated

906
01:34:30,833 --> 01:34:33,500
up the Pacific Ocean and we were in an El

907
01:34:33,500 --> 01:34:36,083
Nino year. So it just, it just sort of

908
01:34:36,083 --> 01:34:37,625
exacerbated the fact that there was such

909
01:34:37,625 --> 01:34:40,625
a heat bloom sort of in the ocean.

910
01:34:41,166 --> 01:34:42,583
Now, I remember Richard, you and I were

911
01:34:42,583 --> 01:34:44,500
talking, I believe, you know, it didn't

912
01:34:44,500 --> 01:34:45,958
like the instruments didn't pick up the

913
01:34:45,958 --> 01:34:48,958
blob fully, but it did have, you know,

914
01:34:48,958 --> 01:34:51,875
some footprint in the data of this blob.

915
01:34:52,750 --> 01:34:54,750
What have you learned from like these big

916
01:34:54,750 --> 01:34:57,083
events, you know, where you can capture a

917
01:34:57,083 --> 01:34:58,666
little bit of it and what have you

918
01:34:58,666 --> 01:34:59,791
learned because, you know, if you have

919
01:34:59,791 --> 01:35:02,000
all this, this, these data acquisition

920
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:04,166
instruments in the water and you can

921
01:35:04,166 --> 01:35:06,000
capture some part of this event.

922
01:35:06,041 --> 01:35:08,041
What is that? What did that help you

923
01:35:08,041 --> 01:35:10,250
teach and then help ONC kind of learn

924
01:35:10,250 --> 01:35:12,625
from these events? Yeah, that was a major

925
01:35:12,625 --> 01:35:14,958
event. And the blob we're talking about

926
01:35:14,958 --> 01:35:18,333
the marine heat wave that started in 2023

927
01:35:18,333 --> 01:35:22,000
2013 to 14 was really far out to see.

928
01:35:22,041 --> 01:35:23,916
It was at the surface layer of the ocean

929
01:35:23,916 --> 01:35:26,166
in the Gulf of Alaska. The entire

930
01:35:26,166 --> 01:35:28,500
Northeast Pacific is very, very warm that

931
01:35:28,500 --> 01:35:32,458
spring of 2014. And it wasn't until about

932
01:35:32,458 --> 01:35:34,166
a year later that that water started

933
01:35:34,166 --> 01:35:35,625
coming near shore that

934
01:35:35,625 --> 01:35:37,000
our sensors picked it up.

935
01:35:37,458 --> 01:35:40,458
And so it was kind of exciting to see as

936
01:35:40,458 --> 01:35:42,875
this blob evolved from a an offshore

937
01:35:42,875 --> 01:35:47,208
event to coastal phenomenon. It raised

938
01:35:47,208 --> 01:35:49,250
the temperature of the coastal waters in

939
01:35:49,250 --> 01:35:51,500
particular along Vancouver Island and

940
01:35:51,500 --> 01:35:53,708
into the sea by about two

941
01:35:53,708 --> 01:35:55,666
degrees for two or three years.

942
01:35:56,291 --> 01:35:59,166
And it stuck around for a very long time.

943
01:35:59,916 --> 01:36:01,666
And again, this was not at all

944
01:36:01,666 --> 01:36:03,958
anticipated. We, you know, we're familiar

945
01:36:03,958 --> 01:36:06,000
with marine heat waves. They seem to be

946
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:07,708
coming more frequent with climate change.

947
01:36:08,041 --> 01:36:10,833
But their persistence that it blasted

948
01:36:10,833 --> 01:36:13,000
offshore for over a year and then in

949
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:15,583
short for another two to three years. So

950
01:36:15,583 --> 01:36:19,166
the heat wave that was called the blob

951
01:36:19,166 --> 01:36:21,125
had such a large

952
01:36:21,125 --> 01:36:23,416
temporal and physical footprint.

953
01:36:23,625 --> 01:36:25,166
It was really quite remarkable. It's

954
01:36:25,166 --> 01:36:27,083
probably the largest marine heat wave

955
01:36:27,083 --> 01:36:29,250
ever recorded and our data was

956
01:36:29,250 --> 01:36:31,500
contributing to its understanding as it

957
01:36:31,500 --> 01:36:34,125
when it came ashore and it lasted for

958
01:36:34,125 --> 01:36:35,625
three years. It elevated the

959
01:36:35,625 --> 01:36:37,000
temperatures in the sailors sea.

960
01:36:37,041 --> 01:36:40,125
We had in fact, there's sort of an annual

961
01:36:40,125 --> 01:36:41,833
cycle. This is one of the things that the

962
01:36:41,833 --> 01:36:44,125
observatory picks up. It picks up all the

963
01:36:44,125 --> 01:36:47,458
variations, including annual cycles. And

964
01:36:47,458 --> 01:36:50,541
during when the blob was along in the

965
01:36:50,541 --> 01:36:54,250
sailors sea, the coldest temperatures we

966
01:36:54,250 --> 01:36:56,583
were seeing those two years like the 2016

967
01:36:56,583 --> 01:36:59,708
and 2017, the coldest temperatures were

968
01:36:59,708 --> 01:37:02,000
warmer than the warmest

969
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:03,000
temperatures in some prior years.

970
01:37:03,041 --> 01:37:06,416
So the whole system had shifted up by two

971
01:37:06,416 --> 01:37:08,916
or three degrees, which is which was not

972
01:37:08,916 --> 01:37:12,916
anticipated. And the data, this long

973
01:37:12,916 --> 01:37:13,875
record really helped

974
01:37:13,875 --> 01:37:15,083
us put it into context.

975
01:37:16,083 --> 01:37:17,666
Absolutely. It's amazing too, because as

976
01:37:17,666 --> 01:37:19,583
a scientist, you know, you you see these

977
01:37:19,583 --> 01:37:21,083
events happen and you always want you

978
01:37:21,083 --> 01:37:22,500
always like, oh man, I wish I had some

979
01:37:22,500 --> 01:37:23,125
instruments in the

980
01:37:23,125 --> 01:37:24,000
water to detect that. Right.

981
01:37:24,041 --> 01:37:26,791
Right. Here you have this long term data

982
01:37:26,791 --> 01:37:29,583
set that's been going on for decades and

983
01:37:29,583 --> 01:37:31,541
you had it, you know, and you can you're

984
01:37:31,541 --> 01:37:32,916
like, oh, we already have

985
01:37:32,916 --> 01:37:34,125
it. Here you go. And it's free.

986
01:37:34,375 --> 01:37:35,916
Like just we're going to push it on to

987
01:37:35,916 --> 01:37:37,500
whoever wants it and whoever wants to do

988
01:37:37,500 --> 01:37:39,416
studies on it. And I think that's just

989
01:37:39,416 --> 01:37:41,416
it's so valuable in the scientific

990
01:37:41,416 --> 01:37:42,791
community these days, because so many

991
01:37:42,791 --> 01:37:45,125
times just like, ah, I wish I had, you

992
01:37:45,125 --> 01:37:46,000
know, the data for that.

993
01:37:46,041 --> 01:37:47,291
Or it would have been really cool to

994
01:37:47,291 --> 01:37:50,500
monitor that. That is such an important

995
01:37:50,500 --> 01:37:53,166
part. And to also like transfer it to

996
01:37:53,166 --> 01:37:55,250
things that like you don't expect, you

997
01:37:55,250 --> 01:37:56,000
know, with these with

998
01:37:56,000 --> 01:37:57,208
these discoveries, right?

999
01:37:57,500 --> 01:37:59,083
There is a story that came out and I have

1000
01:37:59,083 --> 01:38:01,875
to ask, I don't know who was but I need

1001
01:38:01,875 --> 01:38:04,333
to know more about measuring the solar

1002
01:38:04,333 --> 01:38:05,166
flare or the

1003
01:38:05,166 --> 01:38:06,791
interference from a solar flare.

1004
01:38:07,333 --> 01:38:10,333
Can someone talk about it where, you

1005
01:38:10,333 --> 01:38:11,958
know, you can actually measure it and,

1006
01:38:11,958 --> 01:38:13,708
you know, a solar flare of all things

1007
01:38:13,708 --> 01:38:15,041
like in oceanographic data.

1008
01:38:15,083 --> 01:38:17,375
It connects, it connects nicely to one of

1009
01:38:17,375 --> 01:38:20,083
your earlier questions and like, how do

1010
01:38:20,083 --> 01:38:23,583
you observe anomalies or special things

1011
01:38:23,583 --> 01:38:25,750
that are happening in our data? And this

1012
01:38:25,750 --> 01:38:28,208
is an example of a data specialist that

1013
01:38:28,208 --> 01:38:30,875
ONC who's the person that recognizes

1014
01:38:30,875 --> 01:38:31,875
this, his name's Alex.

1015
01:38:32,041 --> 01:38:35,541
So he's monitoring a bunch of streams of

1016
01:38:35,541 --> 01:38:38,458
sensor data. And he recognized that there

1017
01:38:38,458 --> 01:38:39,916
was something weird happening in this

1018
01:38:39,916 --> 01:38:43,000
data and all of this, in particular in

1019
01:38:43,000 --> 01:38:44,666
the compasses. So there's a particular

1020
01:38:44,666 --> 01:38:46,250
instrument that we have in many different

1021
01:38:46,250 --> 01:38:48,500
locations on our network called an ADCP.

1022
01:38:49,125 --> 01:38:51,000
And as part of this instrument, there's a

1023
01:38:51,000 --> 01:38:54,666
compass sensor as part of it. And the

1024
01:38:54,666 --> 01:38:57,500
compass readings were behaving strangely

1025
01:38:57,500 --> 01:39:00,083
all at the same time. And so then Alex

1026
01:39:00,083 --> 01:39:02,666
contacted a few other people that I don't

1027
01:39:02,666 --> 01:39:04,541
see and it's like, what could be going on

1028
01:39:04,541 --> 01:39:07,625
here? His initial hypothesis that is that

1029
01:39:07,625 --> 01:39:08,000
it could have been an earthquake.

1030
01:39:08,041 --> 01:39:12,500
Right. But then in reading more into it,

1031
01:39:12,500 --> 01:39:15,041
it just happened to coincide with a major

1032
01:39:15,041 --> 01:39:17,833
geomagnetic storm like a solar flare

1033
01:39:17,833 --> 01:39:20,500
event, right? And this type of

1034
01:39:20,500 --> 01:39:24,208
electromagnetism in the atmosphere was

1035
01:39:24,208 --> 01:39:27,333
essentially screwing up the compasses

1036
01:39:27,333 --> 01:39:28,791
across the ONC network.

1037
01:39:29,041 --> 01:39:32,000
It's really that cool, right? So

1038
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:35,166
something that's happening. It's like an

1039
01:39:35,166 --> 01:39:36,916
astronomical phenomenon, but we're

1040
01:39:36,916 --> 01:39:39,333
recording it in the deepest parts of the

1041
01:39:39,333 --> 01:39:42,708
ocean. So it's pretty neat that we don't

1042
01:39:42,708 --> 01:39:44,458
really quite understand the implications

1043
01:39:44,458 --> 01:39:46,708
of that yet. Right now that just still

1044
01:39:46,708 --> 01:39:48,541
stands as like a very cool observation.

1045
01:39:49,041 --> 01:39:52,125
You know, why that's important and how we

1046
01:39:52,125 --> 01:39:54,541
can learn from that. We're still working

1047
01:39:54,541 --> 01:39:56,250
that out. And that's part of the process,

1048
01:39:56,250 --> 01:39:58,625
right? Yeah, well, I think this again,

1049
01:39:58,625 --> 01:40:00,916
it's the power of having these these

1050
01:40:00,916 --> 01:40:02,833
instruments in the water and available.

1051
01:40:03,750 --> 01:40:05,625
And the data available to so many people,

1052
01:40:05,875 --> 01:40:07,333
you know, somebody picking it up that you

1053
01:40:07,333 --> 01:40:08,791
may not know of because it's available,

1054
01:40:08,791 --> 01:40:10,750
they asked for it, they get it and all of

1055
01:40:10,750 --> 01:40:11,791
a sudden, they're like, well, wait a

1056
01:40:11,791 --> 01:40:14,500
minute, let's, let's, let's, let's go, go

1057
01:40:14,500 --> 01:40:15,791
into this piece of data because there's

1058
01:40:15,791 --> 01:40:18,000
some anomaly here that happens.

1059
01:40:18,041 --> 01:40:20,333
We've talked about solar flares. We've

1060
01:40:20,333 --> 01:40:21,541
talked about earthquakes. We've talked

1061
01:40:21,541 --> 01:40:24,625
about line, land slides. You know, we've

1062
01:40:24,625 --> 01:40:26,416
talked about, you know, the blob and

1063
01:40:26,416 --> 01:40:28,875
anomalies in oceanographic data.

1064
01:40:29,708 --> 01:40:32,166
You know, this data has been around for a

1065
01:40:32,166 --> 01:40:33,833
long time. It's going to continue to be

1066
01:40:33,833 --> 01:40:35,958
around for a long time. How often do

1067
01:40:35,958 --> 01:40:38,291
these discoveries happen? Is it like

1068
01:40:38,291 --> 01:40:39,958
every, every five years you're like,

1069
01:40:39,958 --> 01:40:41,333
okay, let's take a look in the data and

1070
01:40:41,333 --> 01:40:42,250
let's, let's see if

1071
01:40:42,250 --> 01:40:43,000
there's any anomalies here.

1072
01:40:43,041 --> 01:40:45,500
Like what, like for, I guess, COVID is

1073
01:40:45,500 --> 01:40:47,166
for you, like what's the process and

1074
01:40:47,166 --> 01:40:49,958
like, how do we discover these mysterious

1075
01:40:49,958 --> 01:40:53,541
discoveries in so much data? Is it, is it

1076
01:40:53,541 --> 01:40:56,583
the power of the partnerships that that

1077
01:40:56,583 --> 01:40:59,916
ONC has and the researchers that continue

1078
01:40:59,916 --> 01:41:01,041
to try, like to

1079
01:41:01,041 --> 01:41:02,000
continue to look at the data?

1080
01:41:02,041 --> 01:41:05,458
Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely just

1081
01:41:05,458 --> 01:41:08,541
working with the community. And I think

1082
01:41:08,541 --> 01:41:09,833
it just takes a certain sense of

1083
01:41:09,833 --> 01:41:12,625
creativity and thinking outside the box.

1084
01:41:12,875 --> 01:41:15,166
I mean, you never know. I'm convinced

1085
01:41:15,166 --> 01:41:18,625
that there's many, many, many discoveries

1086
01:41:18,625 --> 01:41:20,166
like the ones that we've been talking

1087
01:41:20,166 --> 01:41:22,250
about that already exist in the, in the

1088
01:41:22,250 --> 01:41:23,958
data and archives that we have on the

1089
01:41:23,958 --> 01:41:25,000
ONC, on the ONC network.

1090
01:41:25,041 --> 01:41:28,000
And so it's just going to take that spark

1091
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:30,166
of inspiration or the right person asking

1092
01:41:30,166 --> 01:41:32,750
the right question to say, Hey, what if

1093
01:41:32,750 --> 01:41:34,500
we looked at that? And what do you think

1094
01:41:34,500 --> 01:41:36,250
that means? And, and that's what

1095
01:41:36,250 --> 01:41:38,041
scientific discovery is all about. And

1096
01:41:38,041 --> 01:41:40,875
that's why working at ONC is

1097
01:41:40,875 --> 01:41:42,000
such a cool and special job.

1098
01:41:42,041 --> 01:41:44,375
Absolutely. Just never know what you're,

1099
01:41:44,375 --> 01:41:45,833
what you're going to get. Gwen with

1100
01:41:45,833 --> 01:41:48,666
working with, with NRCan for NRCan over

1101
01:41:48,666 --> 01:41:50,750
these number of years and working with,

1102
01:41:50,750 --> 01:41:54,583
with ONC during those years. How

1103
01:41:54,583 --> 01:41:57,708
important is this partnership to the

1104
01:41:57,708 --> 01:41:59,791
government? You know, in, in, in the

1105
01:41:59,791 --> 01:42:01,416
research that it does and understanding

1106
01:42:01,416 --> 01:42:03,708
this type, this part of the coastline and

1107
01:42:03,708 --> 01:42:06,000
this part of the, the ocean so much. How,

1108
01:42:06,500 --> 01:42:10,000
how valuable is that for, for NRCan and

1109
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:11,000
just the government of Canada in general?

1110
01:42:11,041 --> 01:42:15,875
Well, to so it, you know, back in 25

1111
01:42:15,875 --> 01:42:19,250
years ago, basically, our Institute,

1112
01:42:19,250 --> 01:42:21,166
which is a government Institute out in,

1113
01:42:21,166 --> 01:42:25,416
in North Saanich was the main Institute

1114
01:42:25,416 --> 01:42:28,333
examining these things. Ocean at Risk

1115
01:42:28,333 --> 01:42:30,833
Canada came along and started from almost

1116
01:42:30,833 --> 01:42:33,583
nothing to now a very, very strong team

1117
01:42:33,583 --> 01:42:39,416
that, that provides a lot of added

1118
01:42:39,416 --> 01:42:40,000
benefit to the ocean.

1119
01:42:40,041 --> 01:42:46,458
Benefit to our work. And lately, so even

1120
01:42:46,458 --> 01:42:49,250
though the focus is based around

1121
01:42:49,250 --> 01:42:51,750
observatories, these network

1122
01:42:51,750 --> 01:42:54,875
observatories, Ocean at Risk Canada is

1123
01:42:54,875 --> 01:42:56,958
also reaching out to scientists to see if

1124
01:42:56,958 --> 01:43:00,458
they can help conduct experiments that

1125
01:43:00,458 --> 01:43:03,708
give added value to the, to the sort of

1126
01:43:03,708 --> 01:43:05,041
monitoring that they're

1127
01:43:05,041 --> 01:43:06,000
doing on the experiments.

1128
01:43:06,041 --> 01:43:08,875
And so there's, there are a number of

1129
01:43:08,875 --> 01:43:10,833
cases where we've said, okay, you're

1130
01:43:10,833 --> 01:43:12,208
going out there, you're going to be

1131
01:43:12,208 --> 01:43:14,541
maintaining these, these, these networks.

1132
01:43:15,500 --> 01:43:19,041
And can we design this other experiment

1133
01:43:19,041 --> 01:43:22,000
that will tell us something more about,

1134
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:25,375
about what it is our various

1135
01:43:25,375 --> 01:43:26,000
departments are looking at.

1136
01:43:26,041 --> 01:43:28,750
I don't want to speak on behalf of all

1137
01:43:28,750 --> 01:43:31,333
the departments. Our department is

1138
01:43:31,333 --> 01:43:34,333
responsible for looking at seabed

1139
01:43:34,333 --> 01:43:37,750
processes, natural hazards, geological

1140
01:43:37,750 --> 01:43:40,291
histories, geological formations, and,

1141
01:43:40,291 --> 01:43:41,000
and this sort of thing.

1142
01:43:41,041 --> 01:43:45,708
And, and Ocean at Risk Canada has been

1143
01:43:45,708 --> 01:43:47,833
absolutely critical on that I think,

1144
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:50,500
partly because of the, the president of

1145
01:43:50,500 --> 01:43:52,708
Ocean at Risk Canada also comes from a

1146
01:43:52,708 --> 01:43:55,291
marine geoscience background. So there's

1147
01:43:55,291 --> 01:43:58,333
been a, there's been a lot of, a lot of

1148
01:43:58,333 --> 01:44:01,541
emphasis on earthquake early warning and

1149
01:44:01,541 --> 01:44:04,000
on tsunamis and on seabed pressures and

1150
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:06,291
on sort of these geological processes.

1151
01:44:07,541 --> 01:44:10,541
So it's, it's, it's been, it's been good

1152
01:44:10,541 --> 01:44:12,041
for, for our department

1153
01:44:12,041 --> 01:44:13,375
natural resources Canada.

1154
01:44:14,125 --> 01:44:14,958
Yeah, absolutely.

1155
01:44:15,708 --> 01:44:17,458
I just want to comment that one of the,

1156
01:44:17,458 --> 01:44:20,041
there's a couple of layers to this. One

1157
01:44:20,041 --> 01:44:22,125
is you've got core sensors that have been

1158
01:44:22,125 --> 01:44:24,208
out there the whole time. And they're

1159
01:44:24,208 --> 01:44:26,958
sort of painting the canvas of the ocean.

1160
01:44:26,958 --> 01:44:28,750
They're showing us the background

1161
01:44:28,750 --> 01:44:31,791
persistent process that happened on in

1162
01:44:31,791 --> 01:44:33,500
our tides every day,

1163
01:44:34,208 --> 01:44:36,000
seasonal variations every year.

1164
01:44:36,041 --> 01:44:38,791
And onto this canvas now researchers can

1165
01:44:38,791 --> 01:44:41,083
come to us. Like Cohen was talking about

1166
01:44:41,083 --> 01:44:43,375
the bottom lander. Research has been come

1167
01:44:43,375 --> 01:44:45,958
to us. We've got this history of how the

1168
01:44:45,958 --> 01:44:47,541
ocean is responding in this area.

1169
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:49,916
And then they can plan an experiment with

1170
01:44:49,916 --> 01:44:51,791
a lot of knowledge about what they're

1171
01:44:51,791 --> 01:44:54,125
about what they might expect. And then

1172
01:44:54,125 --> 01:44:56,500
they can find teeny experiment to really

1173
01:44:56,500 --> 01:44:57,791
look at things that you wouldn't have

1174
01:44:57,791 --> 01:44:59,500
been able to do if you just didn't, you

1175
01:44:59,500 --> 01:45:01,041
came and you didn't know what the

1176
01:45:01,041 --> 01:45:02,000
environment you're going into.

1177
01:45:02,041 --> 01:45:04,208
So we've got the ocean that was Canada

1178
01:45:04,208 --> 01:45:06,125
provides us canvas onto which you can

1179
01:45:06,125 --> 01:45:08,458
design really specialized and very

1180
01:45:08,458 --> 01:45:10,000
rewarding experiments.

1181
01:45:11,041 --> 01:45:13,041
And that canvas also includes sort of

1182
01:45:13,041 --> 01:45:16,000
climate signals as well. So, so the

1183
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:18,000
longevity of the time series now they're

1184
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:20,125
getting over 20 years. We're one of the

1185
01:45:20,125 --> 01:45:22,750
few sites in the world where we have a

1186
01:45:22,750 --> 01:45:24,958
long, a long enough record to start to

1187
01:45:24,958 --> 01:45:27,041
tease out the differences between the

1188
01:45:27,041 --> 01:45:29,000
annual variations and the long term

1189
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:29,791
trends that might be

1190
01:45:29,791 --> 01:45:30,000
associated with climate change.

1191
01:45:30,041 --> 01:45:33,000
So that canvas has its own

1192
01:45:33,000 --> 01:45:35,000
level layer of science as well.

1193
01:45:35,708 --> 01:45:38,000
So literally Richard, and I'll just add

1194
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:39,000
one more thing in that.

1195
01:45:39,041 --> 01:45:44,083
Onc by by maintaining and operating this

1196
01:45:44,083 --> 01:45:46,083
this network, this facility also has the

1197
01:45:46,083 --> 01:45:48,166
expertise of how to work in the ocean

1198
01:45:48,166 --> 01:45:50,166
environment, right? So when different

1199
01:45:50,166 --> 01:45:51,958
scientific partners come from all around

1200
01:45:51,958 --> 01:45:53,791
the world to leverage that set of

1201
01:45:53,791 --> 01:45:55,958
expertise and to actually do things in

1202
01:45:55,958 --> 01:45:56,708
the ocean environment,

1203
01:45:56,958 --> 01:45:59,125
which is really not easy, right?

1204
01:45:59,125 --> 01:46:01,375
And so that that engineering expertise,

1205
01:46:01,750 --> 01:46:04,666
the ANSI expertise is really

1206
01:46:04,666 --> 01:46:06,750
a special component of that.

1207
01:46:07,958 --> 01:46:11,250
Yeah, I'd like to emphasize that because

1208
01:46:11,250 --> 01:46:13,250
I'm one of the scientists who's in a

1209
01:46:13,250 --> 01:46:15,333
government organization who who really

1210
01:46:15,333 --> 01:46:17,791
leverages that sort of expertise. And so

1211
01:46:17,791 --> 01:46:20,833
I often go across the road to ocean

1212
01:46:20,833 --> 01:46:23,000
networks, Canada and say, you know, I'm

1213
01:46:23,000 --> 01:46:24,000
thinking about this type of experiment.

1214
01:46:24,041 --> 01:46:27,958
And that's how these things that's that's

1215
01:46:27,958 --> 01:46:30,083
how we generate the ideas for these

1216
01:46:30,083 --> 01:46:33,000
platforms and the and the engineers at

1217
01:46:33,000 --> 01:46:35,791
ocean networks, Canada have these

1218
01:46:35,791 --> 01:46:37,625
capabilities that we just don't even have

1219
01:46:37,625 --> 01:46:41,416
in house at our specific department.

1220
01:46:51,041 --> 01:46:53,000
And so it's really interesting because you both have like this this experience

1221
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:54,958
and connecting with other researchers

1222
01:46:54,958 --> 01:46:57,208
from all different backgrounds. People

1223
01:46:57,208 --> 01:46:59,750
who are listening to this podcast are in

1224
01:46:59,750 --> 01:47:01,208
different parts of their career.

1225
01:47:01,458 --> 01:47:02,875
You know, I have a lot of early career

1226
01:47:02,875 --> 01:47:04,958
scientists and of all different

1227
01:47:04,958 --> 01:47:07,333
backgrounds as well as, you know,

1228
01:47:07,333 --> 01:47:09,375
mid-career and late career, but also

1229
01:47:09,375 --> 01:47:10,041
people who are just

1230
01:47:10,041 --> 01:47:11,416
interested in the ocean in general.

1231
01:47:13,041 --> 01:47:15,833
A researcher or a scientist want to, you

1232
01:47:15,833 --> 01:47:17,166
know, look at some of the data and get a

1233
01:47:17,166 --> 01:47:18,750
hold of some data. Where do they where do

1234
01:47:18,750 --> 01:47:22,208
they begin in terms of like what type of

1235
01:47:22,208 --> 01:47:23,250
data that's available, just

1236
01:47:23,250 --> 01:47:24,500
the catalog that's available?

1237
01:47:25,208 --> 01:47:27,583
How can they sort of like who do they

1238
01:47:27,583 --> 01:47:29,500
contact? How does that work? I guess, I

1239
01:47:29,500 --> 01:47:31,000
guess, we'll start with you.

1240
01:47:32,166 --> 01:47:34,375
Yeah, it's a great question. And that's

1241
01:47:34,375 --> 01:47:36,333
what it's all about. Anybody around the

1242
01:47:36,333 --> 01:47:38,333
world, and I mean it, can get a hold of

1243
01:47:38,333 --> 01:47:40,500
us and ask questions. And we're here.

1244
01:47:40,708 --> 01:47:43,958
We're here to support. And so that's, I

1245
01:47:43,958 --> 01:47:47,750
think, for questions related to the

1246
01:47:47,750 --> 01:47:50,083
science or hypotheses, then the science

1247
01:47:50,083 --> 01:47:52,416
team at Ocean Networks Canada is a great

1248
01:47:52,416 --> 01:47:53,000
place to start, right?

1249
01:47:53,041 --> 01:47:55,041
And we have different disciplinary

1250
01:47:55,041 --> 01:47:57,916
experts as part of our group. If you have

1251
01:47:57,916 --> 01:48:01,500
questions about geophysics or benthic

1252
01:48:01,500 --> 01:48:04,208
ecology or ocean acoustics, and then we

1253
01:48:04,208 --> 01:48:05,583
can point you in the right direction. And

1254
01:48:05,583 --> 01:48:08,375
we just begin that dialogue. And I know

1255
01:48:08,375 --> 01:48:11,416
there's a way to support within that.

1256
01:48:11,416 --> 01:48:13,333
And so, yeah, just send us an email, give

1257
01:48:13,333 --> 01:48:16,083
us a call. We'd be happy to help and talk

1258
01:48:16,083 --> 01:48:18,875
data any day of the week. Fantastic. The

1259
01:48:18,875 --> 01:48:20,625
other thing, Ocean Networks Canada has

1260
01:48:20,625 --> 01:48:22,000
just done right from the very beginning.

1261
01:48:22,041 --> 01:48:23,916
And I don't think this is necessarily

1262
01:48:23,916 --> 01:48:26,125
unique, but we took it on very seriously

1263
01:48:26,125 --> 01:48:28,875
with to build a comprehensive data

1264
01:48:28,875 --> 01:48:31,458
archive at the same time. So at the same

1265
01:48:31,458 --> 01:48:32,666
time, we were putting the instruments

1266
01:48:32,666 --> 01:48:35,291
out, we were not ignoring the back end,

1267
01:48:35,291 --> 01:48:36,416
which is how do you deliver

1268
01:48:36,416 --> 01:48:38,000
the data? Yeah, researchers.

1269
01:48:38,041 --> 01:48:40,791
And so we have this amazing system called

1270
01:48:40,791 --> 01:48:44,666
Oceans 3.0, the data portal, and it has

1271
01:48:44,666 --> 01:48:47,583
many, many different components to it.

1272
01:48:47,583 --> 01:48:48,958
One of the components is the data

1273
01:48:48,958 --> 01:48:51,666
preview. Because the data archive is so

1274
01:48:51,666 --> 01:48:54,333
vast and huge, we're certainly up in the

1275
01:48:54,333 --> 01:48:56,333
petabytes sort of range of environmental

1276
01:48:56,333 --> 01:48:58,000
data, which is quite unique in the world.

1277
01:48:58,041 --> 01:49:01,333
We have a data preview section where we

1278
01:49:01,333 --> 01:49:03,791
plotted up a number of the core sensors.

1279
01:49:04,500 --> 01:49:06,416
So you don't have to go in and ask, you

1280
01:49:06,416 --> 01:49:08,750
know, do you too much sort of searching

1281
01:49:08,750 --> 01:49:11,000
in the blind, you can just pull up plots

1282
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:13,583
that already exist, have a look, see the

1283
01:49:13,583 --> 01:49:16,833
variability, maybe find the data that

1284
01:49:16,833 --> 01:49:18,958
you're familiar with or some other data

1285
01:49:18,958 --> 01:49:20,458
that you haven't been familiar with, but

1286
01:49:20,458 --> 01:49:21,625
you see some interesting signals.

1287
01:49:22,250 --> 01:49:24,166
And it gives you an idea, you can come in

1288
01:49:24,166 --> 01:49:26,125
and look at that, it's all free, all of

1289
01:49:26,125 --> 01:49:27,666
the data is free, both in the previous

1290
01:49:27,666 --> 01:49:28,708
sense, and then you

1291
01:49:28,708 --> 01:49:30,083
can go and download data.

1292
01:49:31,375 --> 01:49:33,333
And one of the things that breaks this

1293
01:49:33,333 --> 01:49:35,958
barrier down is, like when I started, to

1294
01:49:35,958 --> 01:49:37,541
be an oceanographer, you needed to live

1295
01:49:37,541 --> 01:49:39,125
on the coast, you needed maybe to have

1296
01:49:39,125 --> 01:49:41,500
access to ships and very expensive

1297
01:49:41,500 --> 01:49:44,041
resources. Well, Ocean Network Canada

1298
01:49:44,041 --> 01:49:45,708
breaks down that barrier. We have

1299
01:49:45,708 --> 01:49:46,708
researchers that can be

1300
01:49:46,708 --> 01:49:47,791
completely landlocked.

1301
01:49:48,416 --> 01:49:51,208
They don't have to access large expensive

1302
01:49:51,208 --> 01:49:53,541
ships, they don't have to become experts

1303
01:49:53,541 --> 01:49:55,500
in these data systems or the instruments,

1304
01:49:55,833 --> 01:49:57,875
they can come and they can explore the

1305
01:49:57,875 --> 01:49:58,791
archive from anywhere

1306
01:49:58,791 --> 01:50:00,041
with an internet connection.

1307
01:50:00,916 --> 01:50:03,375
They can preview the data, they can then

1308
01:50:03,375 --> 01:50:05,041
download, we actually have a plot in

1309
01:50:05,041 --> 01:50:07,250
utilities or you see some signal in

1310
01:50:07,250 --> 01:50:09,333
there, you want to see if you want to, is

1311
01:50:09,333 --> 01:50:11,041
the signal I'm interested in there, you

1312
01:50:11,041 --> 01:50:12,666
can play around with the plots if it's

1313
01:50:12,666 --> 01:50:14,791
maybe there's a hint that that data, the

1314
01:50:14,791 --> 01:50:16,000
signal is in the data,

1315
01:50:16,041 --> 01:50:18,375
then you can go and download the data and

1316
01:50:18,375 --> 01:50:21,208
do more of further analysis. And that not

1317
01:50:21,208 --> 01:50:23,208
only includes the sensors like measuring

1318
01:50:23,208 --> 01:50:25,083
temperature and salinity, but the

1319
01:50:25,083 --> 01:50:29,000
hydrophone data, the camera data, the

1320
01:50:29,000 --> 01:50:31,000
multimedia data as well.

1321
01:50:31,291 --> 01:50:33,958
So it's all available, it's all free,

1322
01:50:33,958 --> 01:50:36,666
there's no burden, you don't have to pay

1323
01:50:36,666 --> 01:50:39,791
to access it. And then like Cohen says,

1324
01:50:39,791 --> 01:50:41,750
we have the staff that if you have

1325
01:50:41,750 --> 01:50:42,916
questions about what

1326
01:50:42,916 --> 01:50:44,000
you're seeing, contact us.

1327
01:50:44,041 --> 01:50:47,041
And we've got experts in house that are

1328
01:50:47,041 --> 01:50:49,125
familiar with that data stream, they know

1329
01:50:49,125 --> 01:50:51,208
how to access it, they can help you get

1330
01:50:51,208 --> 01:50:55,750
it. And like Gwyn said, most often you

1331
01:50:55,750 --> 01:50:57,416
end up trying to drink from a

1332
01:50:57,416 --> 01:50:58,833
fire hose before you know it.

1333
01:50:59,583 --> 01:51:02,083
Amazing, thank you so much. You know,

1334
01:51:02,083 --> 01:51:04,125
this has been incredible to have all

1335
01:51:04,125 --> 01:51:06,000
three of you gentlemen on the podcast to

1336
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:06,708
be able to talk about

1337
01:51:06,708 --> 01:51:07,875
these these great discoveries.

1338
01:51:08,041 --> 01:51:10,500
I can't tell you how much I want to thank

1339
01:51:10,500 --> 01:51:12,833
you. My audience thanks you and just the

1340
01:51:12,833 --> 01:51:14,208
work that you've done over the years and

1341
01:51:14,208 --> 01:51:16,125
you continue to do in the future. Thank

1342
01:51:16,125 --> 01:51:17,000
you so much and being

1343
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:18,125
able to communicate this.

1344
01:51:18,500 --> 01:51:21,083
I hope a lot of more scientists are able

1345
01:51:21,083 --> 01:51:23,125
to take advantage of the free data and

1346
01:51:23,125 --> 01:51:24,291
then these streams of data that come

1347
01:51:24,291 --> 01:51:25,958
through. So thank you so much. Really

1348
01:51:25,958 --> 01:51:27,250
appreciate you coming on the podcast.

1349
01:51:28,125 --> 01:51:30,000
Great to be with you. Yeah, thanks so

1350
01:51:30,000 --> 01:51:31,625
much for your time. It was fun. Thank

1351
01:51:31,625 --> 01:51:33,041
you, Richard. Thank you Gwyn. Thank you

1352
01:51:33,041 --> 01:51:34,666
Cohen for joining us on today's episode

1353
01:51:34,666 --> 01:51:36,000
of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

1354
01:51:36,041 --> 01:51:39,500
This was such a fun episode to go

1355
01:51:39,500 --> 01:51:41,708
through. Just imagine being able to set

1356
01:51:41,708 --> 01:51:44,750
up a platform of instruments just to know

1357
01:51:44,750 --> 01:51:46,416
that it's going to and hope I guess

1358
01:51:46,416 --> 01:51:49,000
that's going to get taken and go down a

1359
01:51:49,000 --> 01:51:50,833
landslide and discover something

1360
01:51:50,833 --> 01:51:53,000
completely new of how

1361
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:54,000
submarine landslides work.

1362
01:51:54,041 --> 01:51:57,083
It is amazing to be in science. It is so

1363
01:51:57,083 --> 01:51:59,541
wonderful to be curious. I don't think we

1364
01:51:59,541 --> 01:52:02,708
really understand or encourage people

1365
01:52:02,708 --> 01:52:05,500
enough, especially our kids to be curious

1366
01:52:05,500 --> 01:52:07,041
and to go find something

1367
01:52:07,041 --> 01:52:08,833
that you just never expect.

1368
01:52:09,041 --> 01:52:10,708
And it's kind of a fun thing to do, but

1369
01:52:10,708 --> 01:52:12,541
you have to put yourself out there just

1370
01:52:12,541 --> 01:52:14,666
like they just like O and C does and his

1371
01:52:14,666 --> 01:52:17,666
partners does to make new discoveries and

1372
01:52:17,666 --> 01:52:20,458
I think creativity, you know, having the

1373
01:52:20,458 --> 01:52:22,166
ocean instrumentation to be able to do

1374
01:52:22,166 --> 01:52:24,958
that allows us to have make the

1375
01:52:24,958 --> 01:52:26,375
scientific discoveries that

1376
01:52:26,375 --> 01:52:27,833
you've just never expected.

1377
01:52:28,041 --> 01:52:30,041
And that's what was beautiful about this

1378
01:52:30,041 --> 01:52:32,708
episode. So I think I think Richard, I

1379
01:52:32,708 --> 01:52:34,416
think Cohen, I think Gwyn for joining us

1380
01:52:34,416 --> 01:52:36,666
today and it was such a great opportunity

1381
01:52:36,666 --> 01:52:40,333
to speak to leaders in in oceans and

1382
01:52:40,333 --> 01:52:41,333
scientific discovery,

1383
01:52:41,583 --> 01:52:43,375
especially with the O and C network.

1384
01:52:43,375 --> 01:52:45,458
It is absolutely wonderful. If you have

1385
01:52:45,458 --> 01:52:47,000
any questions or comments, just let us

1386
01:52:47,000 --> 01:52:49,000
know in the YouTube comments below or if

1387
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:50,958
you're listening to this on your favorite

1388
01:52:50,958 --> 01:52:52,875
audio podcast, you can go to speak up for

1389
01:52:52,875 --> 01:52:54,125
blue.com forward slash

1390
01:52:54,125 --> 01:52:56,000
feedback to let me know how you feel.

1391
01:52:56,041 --> 01:52:58,250
We can either leave a message or a

1392
01:52:58,250 --> 01:53:00,458
voicemail or you can actually text it

1393
01:53:00,458 --> 01:53:02,541
through or type it in. That's it for

1394
01:53:02,541 --> 01:53:04,125
today's episode. Thank you for watching.

1395
01:53:04,125 --> 01:53:05,958
This has been another episode of the how

1396
01:53:05,958 --> 01:53:07,625
to protect the ocean podcast. I'm your

1397
01:53:07,625 --> 01:53:09,333
host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great day.

1398
01:53:09,333 --> 01:53:09,916
We'll talk to you next

1399
01:53:09,916 --> 01:53:11,125
time and happy conservation.