July 28, 2026
Why Sustainable Companies Actually Save Money
Sustainability isn't just good PR; it's good business math. In this episode, Andrew breaks down why companies are shifting toward circular business models, using Philips Lighting as a case study in selling light as a service instead of a product. He digs into the economics behind the shift: a British industrial symbiosis study that saved companies significant money and cut CO2 emissions, a PwC Sweden study showing double-digit operating cost reductions in circular electronics, and the rise of sustainability-linked loans that reward companies for hitting circularity targets with lower interest rates.
Andrew also gets honest about the limits of corporate sustainability. Greenwashing is real, B Corp certification isn't perfect, and some consulting firms that advise on sustainability also take on fossil fuel clients. He connects this to a broader conversation about right-to-repair legislation, the EU's upcoming circular economy rules, and why appliances that used to last 20 to 25 years now often die within a decade. Along the way, he shares a personal story about a retired school principal who spent 25 years collecting bottles and cans to fund his old school, a small-scale example of the same circular thinking companies are now being pushed to adopt.
This episode is part of How to Protect the Ocean's weekday coverage of ocean and sustainability news, where Andrew connects business decisions, government policy, and everyday consumer choices to the bigger picture of environmental protection.
Takeaways
- Circular business models like Philips Lighting's lighting as a service can cut costs while extending product lifespans
- Industrial symbiosis and shared waste streams between companies can generate major cost savings and emissions reductions
- Sustainability-linked loans now offer lower interest rates to companies that hit circularity targets
- Greenwashing and inconsistent B Corp standards make it hard to separate real sustainability action from marketing
- The EU's upcoming circular economy legislation includes stricter product design rules, a digital product passport, and consumer repair rights
- Right to repair laws could reverse the trend of appliances failing well before their expected lifespan
- Deposit return systems for bottles and cans show how take-back models create financial incentive for recycling
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Transcript
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Why do companies do sustainable things?
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Why do they make their
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supply change sustainable?
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A lot of times, not just for the sake of
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being good for the environment,
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a lot of times it's because
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they save money, like actual,
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they actually save a lot of money.
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And I think that's really important for
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companies to do that in these times,
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try to keep their prices the same or to
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try to maximize their profits.
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And at the same time,
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when they're sustainable,
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they become better for the environment.
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Today, we're going to be talking about a
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particular company
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called Phillips Lighting
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that found ways to not only be more
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circular, but also save a lot of money.
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And we're going to talk about that on
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today's episode of the How
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to Protect the Ocean podcast,
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because this is the podcast where you
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find out a lot of ocean news and
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sustainability news,
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sustainability, sustainability news.
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And that's what you're going to find this
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week on this podcast, Monday to Friday,
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we're going to be
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talking about sustainability.
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Today, we're going to be talking about
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the economics of
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sustainability and how it can
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benefit companies, not only from a PR
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standpoint, but also from
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a cost saving standpoint,
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which we hope, we hope that
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consumers see that cost savings.
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And I want to know from you right now,
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DM, if you're really struggling,
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do you think companies will pass on their
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savings to the consumer?
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I know they pass on when they have to pay
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more and we have to end up paying more,
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but I want to know, truthfully, if you
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think that business, if they
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save money using a circular
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economy, do they actually lower the
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prices or actually
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keep the prices the same?
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So you end up not
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having to spend more money.
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But we'll talk about that later.
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I want to hear your point
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because I want to support you.
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And if you want to support this show, you
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can do so by going to speakupforblue.com,
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forward slash Patreon,
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join our Patreon community.
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You can hear stuff from me, ramblings and
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things that I'm trying this new,
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whether it be on YouTube, whether it be
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on podcasting, whether it be on TikTok,
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whether it be on Instagram, all these
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different things that
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I'm going to be trying,
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I'm going to be sharing
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in my Patreon community.
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Plus you get access to some cool videos
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that I'll be showing before
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I release them to the public.
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So check out
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speakupforblue.com forward slash Patreon.
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All right, let's get into today's show
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because, you know, circular
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business models are kind of
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interesting when we
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talk about businesses.
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And yesterday I talked about how
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businesses are where we're
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really going to find solutions.
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Like government can provide solutions
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from a regulatory perspective.
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And we're going to hear that they can
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incentivize businesses to do that.
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And sometimes they
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incentivize in a forceful way.
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And sometimes they incentivize in a nice
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way by giving them tax breaks.
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But for the most part, you know, the
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government's have to put in regulations,
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but businesses are really going to find
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solutions because businesses, no matter
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where you're looking at, whether it's a
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hospital company or an environmentally
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friendly company, they are the ones that
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find solutions because they come up with
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a way to solve a problem.
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That's a business really,
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it's their solution providers.
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And so yesterday we talked about the
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reasoning why they would go sustainable.
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We're going to really focus in on the
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economy today because they look at
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economy, people and profit.
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They were going to be
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focusing on the economy.
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And one company that really stood out to
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me in doing my research for
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this was Phillips Lighting.
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And they now sell a lighting as a service
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rather than a product extending the
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product lifespans
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through maintenance and reuse.
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So think about the
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business model changing.
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You may be buying less bulbs, but you're
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actually spending more on
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maintenance in the long run.
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So you're buying one ball, but you're
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spending more on maintenance and services
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and that kind of stuff
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and reuse, to be honest.
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So I think it's really cool.
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What really happened is aluminum
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recycling provides 95% energy savings
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compared to producing
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aluminum from like a raw bauxite.
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That's where it really comes from.
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So a British study in industrial
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symbiosis, of industrial symbiosis, where
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companies were sharing waste and
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byproducts, found it saved 1.3 billion
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dollars euros in costs and prevented 42
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million tons of CO2 emissions.
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That's a pretty big impact on just how
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things can change when
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you decide to go circular.
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Right. And a PwC Sweden study modeling
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circular business models in electronics
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found they cut operating costs by an
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average of 12% while
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also reducing emissions.
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So we're seeing a benefit here.
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Not only are they saving money, which is
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great for businesses, but they're also
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saving the environment by reducing their
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emissions or their CO2
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emissions, which I think is fantastic.
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Right. And now they're seeing, you know,
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some things that are
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happening with loans and lenders.
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So like the banks, lenders
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are now now evaluate ESG.
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So ecological sustainable goals or
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ecological social goals resilient.
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They look at that ESG resilience
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alongside financial history and a
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sustainably linked loans offer lower
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interest rates for company to companies
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that hit circulatory targets.
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Right. Sorry, sorry.
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Circularity targets.
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And so I think it's really cool when you
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start to see, you know, companies like
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lenders start to lend money by
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incentivizing their companies to lower
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their emissions or improve
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recycling or improve reuse.
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I think to see companies be rewarded for
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that type of behavior is great because
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now you can get access to more lending
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and maybe eventually they're not going to
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lend to companies who are not doing those
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types of goals, not
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hating those types of goals.
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And circularity is becoming a huge factor
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in whether a company gets access to
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capital and not just a
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marketing angle. Right.
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Now, let's let's be honest. When it comes
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to the economy, I have to say this. There
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are companies who greenwash, who bluewash
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everything that they can just to get away
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with it, just to make sure that they can
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show that they have done
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some really cool things.
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But then on the other side, what you
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don't see, right, what doesn't make the
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PR list, right, the public relations
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list, they start to do some bad things to
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people, to the economy and all that kind
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of stuff into the environment.
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So you have to be careful in how this is
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measured. Right. And that's why I
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mentioned it yesterday in the B Corps.
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I think what I like about because
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although it's not perfect and there are
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some companies who kind of, you know,
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push the boundaries, let's just say, in
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terms of the customers that they acquire.
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With their consulting firms and things
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like that, there is a report that was put
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out or an article that was put out a
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couple of years ago about that.
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Where consulting firms were taking on
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like fossil fuel clients and things like
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that. So that was a little problem. So,
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you know, no system is perfect.
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But a lot of these companies are doing
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what they want are doing. What not only
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do they want to do by saving money, but
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they're also being sustainable. I mean,
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and kind of buying into the circularity
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type of business
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model where you can reuse.
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You can recycle, you can have repair if
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you have it and you can take back. And I
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think that's a really great thing because
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we're getting back to those days where
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you can just give like the empty milk
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bottle as a glass bottle back to the milk
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person who's delivering it so that they
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can take it back and
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wash it and reuse it.
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Those are really important aspects when
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you come to a business right now. Imagine
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a company taking back their containers so
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that they can either reuse or recycle or
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repair them and put
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them back into circulation.
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Yeah, obviously not a lot of people, not
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a lot of companies can do that because of
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the types of containers that they use.
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But if you move towards a more
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sustainable container where they can
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actually reuse them or break them down
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better so that they can recycle them into
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the containers again or into something
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else. That provides a lot of value. They
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can get money back for that equipment
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that they gather up. And there's there
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are some some some legislation like I
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don't Canada. There's legislation that's
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going to be starting to
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track the types of containers.
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From a plastic pollution standpoint of
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where this plastic pollution is ending up
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and where they were derived from. Where
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were they made and then how to where they
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end up and who's actually responsible for
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that? Is it the consumer or is it the the
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the company who made the container sold
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it to another company that was able to
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brand it and put it out to the consumer
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and the consumer either litters it or
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can't really do anything with it. You
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know, a lot of coffee cups are notorious
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for that where you think they're because
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they're cardboard,
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but they got this waxy,
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material because they have to stay
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within, you know, they're they've got hot
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water or hot coffee in the container. So
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it has to has to hold up his cardboard or
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his paper. It's got a hold up. So it's
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got this like waxy material right. But
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that waxy material prevents it from being
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recycled. And so a lot of the times these
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coffee cups end up in the recycling bin.
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Now imagine if a if a Starbucks or Tim
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Hortons or Dunkin Donuts makes a
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container that's fully recyclable. That's
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actually fully and they take it back
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themselves. You can actually bring it back to the container.
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Bring it back just like we do at the
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liquor store at the beer store when you
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bring back your empties. And I don't care
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if you can do that in other countries.
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And can if you bring back your empties,
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they will give you money back for it. I
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don't know if you can do it. The liquor
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store that used to be able to do it. You
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can do it at the beer store with the cans
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and they'll give you a deposit back,
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right? They'll give you money back. So
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you may not make your full money back,
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which obviously that's that's never going
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to happen. But you make some money back
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and then pay for more beer or you go pay
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for something else. I remember in
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university when we used to have house
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parties with us, what we do, we collect
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all the cans. We take
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pictures of how many like
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beer cases and all that kind of stuff
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that was there. And then we would drive
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it all back and multiple runs and we
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would give them all in and we'd make like
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300 bucks off the thing. And that would
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00:09:13,166 --> 00:09:15,500
go towards paying for repairs or cleaning
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bills for the house that we were renting.
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So it drives value and it drives like if
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00:09:21,833 --> 00:09:23,500
you're motivated enough to take it back.
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That's a huge thing. I know, speaking of
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00:09:27,208 --> 00:09:29,166
the bottle returns or the can returns,
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00:09:29,500 --> 00:09:30,750
there was a retired
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00:09:30,750 --> 00:09:31,958
principal who was going around
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raising money for his old school and he
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every every garbage day or recycling day
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he would come by and he would grab the
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00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:40,541
bottles and he would grab the cans and he
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would put them in his car and he would go
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and he would turn and he did that for 25
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years where he raised money to support
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various aspects of his school. And you
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don't think it's a lot of money at the
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time. But if you dedicate that time to do
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that and take bottles and take cans and
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take them back, you can actually earn a
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good a good amount of money to pay for
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something that's fine.
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00:10:01,958 --> 00:10:02,125
And you can pay for a lot of money if
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you're a good one or to pay for more
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alcohol or to pay for whatever that you
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00:10:04,916 --> 00:10:06,916
really want with that money if you can
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make couple hundred bucks off a big a big
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hall like a university party or after
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university party. But anyway, it's
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there's different ways of experiencing
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the circularity. And of course, not all
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companies are going to just do it because
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of the, you know, they got great hearts.
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There are certain aspects where
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governments have to come in and they have
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to say, hey, we're going to put this
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legislation through and you're going to have to abide by it.
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And to do that, you're actually going to
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save some money, but you may have to put
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some money up front, but you're going to
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save some money. So the EU's upcoming
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circular economy act introduces stricter
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product design rules and a digital
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product passport for traceability.
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So the Europe, as I said yesterday, is
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way ahead of the game in a lot of places
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around the world from a lot of places
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around the world. And then it will have
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it also talk about consumer repair
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rights. So the consumers will be able to
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repair because think about this.
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I don't know if you've noticed this is a
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little bit of a rant part of the show. I
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00:11:02,541 --> 00:11:04,166
don't know if you've noticed this before.
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But when I when we used to buy my parents
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when they had their fridge or they had
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their dishwasher or they had their oven
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00:11:12,708 --> 00:11:15,958
or washer and dryer, we had that. I
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00:11:15,958 --> 00:11:18,708
remember for most of my life, like the
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00:11:18,708 --> 00:11:21,833
first 25 years of my life. Maybe it got
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00:11:21,833 --> 00:11:24,000
replaced once in my lifetime. But
363
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,500
appliances back then
364
00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:26,958
lasted for 20 to 25 years.
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00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,416
Furnaces, air conditioners, all that kind
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00:11:30,416 --> 00:11:33,458
of stuff that lasted for 20 to 25 years.
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00:11:33,791 --> 00:11:35,125
I'm not sure if you've noticed this
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00:11:35,125 --> 00:11:37,666
lately, but if you own any appliances or
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you have owned any appliances, even if
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00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:40,708
you're renting a house that have
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00:11:40,708 --> 00:11:43,041
appliances, those things break very soon,
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like under 25 years, under
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20 years, under 10 years.
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00:11:45,958 --> 00:11:49,291
A lot of the times when something breaks,
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00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:52,166
it's actually cheaper to buy a new one
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00:11:52,166 --> 00:11:54,625
than it is to repair the broken piece or
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00:11:54,625 --> 00:11:57,125
whatever was broken on that appliance.
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00:11:58,041 --> 00:11:59,583
Think about that. Think about the waste
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00:11:59,583 --> 00:12:00,958
that is generated from there.
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00:12:01,250 --> 00:12:03,333
Instead of going to a repair place, you
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00:12:03,333 --> 00:12:04,708
have to go back to because there's not as
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00:12:04,708 --> 00:12:06,833
many of those repair places or having a
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00:12:06,833 --> 00:12:09,708
person come over to fix that. That
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00:12:09,708 --> 00:12:12,583
problem, you would take it back to the
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00:12:12,583 --> 00:12:14,125
store because they'd have like a 10 year
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00:12:14,125 --> 00:12:15,500
warranty and then they say, yeah, it's
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00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:16,250
actually just better. We
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00:12:16,250 --> 00:12:17,250
just give you a new one.
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00:12:17,958 --> 00:12:20,375
Where does all that metal go? Where does
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00:12:20,375 --> 00:12:22,750
all of those pieces of those appliances
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00:12:22,750 --> 00:12:24,958
that are either plastic or metal or some
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00:12:24,958 --> 00:12:29,208
kind of material that may or may not get
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00:12:29,208 --> 00:12:31,000
recycled? Now, metal would get recycled,
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00:12:31,041 --> 00:12:32,833
but some of the stuff is all plastic and
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00:12:32,833 --> 00:12:33,750
some of the stuff is not great.
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00:12:34,083 --> 00:12:35,750
Then there's some chemicals in some of
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00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:37,791
them to make them work. And those don't
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00:12:37,791 --> 00:12:39,458
get recycled. And if they don't last for
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00:12:39,458 --> 00:12:40,750
more than five or 10
400
00:12:40,750 --> 00:12:42,958
years, what's the point of that?
401
00:12:43,333 --> 00:12:44,708
So I think governments have a
402
00:12:44,708 --> 00:12:46,750
responsibility to tell these companies to
403
00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:48,625
say, Hey, you know what? Remember how you
404
00:12:48,625 --> 00:12:50,875
used to make these products a lot better
405
00:12:50,875 --> 00:12:54,000
and they still last a lot longer? We're
406
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:54,958
going to do that again.
407
00:12:55,625 --> 00:12:57,416
We're going to make you do that again
408
00:12:57,416 --> 00:12:59,583
because we get what you're trying to do.
409
00:12:59,583 --> 00:13:01,500
You're trying to make people buy more. So
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00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:03,416
if you get something, say you buy like a
411
00:13:03,416 --> 00:13:04,666
fridge and it breaks down
412
00:13:04,666 --> 00:13:05,958
after like, say, 10 years.
413
00:13:06,958 --> 00:13:07,875
Well, then you have to buy another
414
00:13:07,875 --> 00:13:09,583
fridge, right? And a lot of times when
415
00:13:09,583 --> 00:13:11,125
it's repair, you're not going to order
416
00:13:11,125 --> 00:13:12,333
the other part because it might take a
417
00:13:12,333 --> 00:13:14,166
long time, especially when you consider
418
00:13:14,166 --> 00:13:15,500
these days where it's like next day
419
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:17,000
delivery. It might take a few weeks and
420
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,916
you want that part or you can't go
421
00:13:18,916 --> 00:13:19,833
without a fridge for very
422
00:13:19,833 --> 00:13:20,958
long. All that kind of stuff.
423
00:13:20,958 --> 00:13:24,416
There are so many reasons to just buy a
424
00:13:24,416 --> 00:13:27,666
new fridge, right? But if there's a
425
00:13:27,666 --> 00:13:29,208
legislation that puts it through that
426
00:13:29,208 --> 00:13:30,791
says, Hey, you know what? Like there's a
427
00:13:30,791 --> 00:13:32,500
right to repair for these consumers. They
428
00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:34,250
don't have to go out and buy and spend
429
00:13:34,250 --> 00:13:35,541
another 800 to 1200,
430
00:13:35,875 --> 00:13:37,583
1500 bucks on a fridge.
431
00:13:38,208 --> 00:13:39,375
Fridge are expensive. Fridges are
432
00:13:39,375 --> 00:13:42,000
expensive. Appliances are expensive. So
433
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,208
to have legislation like this upcoming
434
00:13:44,208 --> 00:13:46,958
circular economy act, this is great. Like
435
00:13:46,958 --> 00:13:48,458
for the EU, but I would love it in
436
00:13:48,458 --> 00:13:49,958
Canada. Love to see it in the US. Let's see it in Mexico.
437
00:13:49,958 --> 00:13:53,208
Let's see it in Australia. You know, like
438
00:13:53,208 --> 00:13:55,875
in the UK, it'd be great. So I think we
439
00:13:55,875 --> 00:13:58,291
should be looking at what countries are
440
00:13:58,291 --> 00:14:00,458
doing just like country started are
441
00:14:00,458 --> 00:14:03,166
starting to look at the bands on on
442
00:14:03,166 --> 00:14:05,875
single use plastic and start to copy
443
00:14:05,875 --> 00:14:07,541
those look at what works, what doesn't
444
00:14:07,541 --> 00:14:09,666
and take that into considerations for
445
00:14:09,666 --> 00:14:12,208
your country, your unique aspect and put
446
00:14:12,208 --> 00:14:15,125
those suckers into legislation. Right?
447
00:14:15,125 --> 00:14:17,083
Protect the consumer protect the
448
00:14:17,083 --> 00:14:18,958
environment and probably the companies will probably eventually see that.
449
00:14:18,958 --> 00:14:20,291
Companies will probably eventually save
450
00:14:20,291 --> 00:14:23,333
money on marketing on sales and
451
00:14:23,333 --> 00:14:25,000
everything like that. But I feel like
452
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,375
companies are just so greedy these days.
453
00:14:27,708 --> 00:14:29,958
They want to milk everything they can out
454
00:14:29,958 --> 00:14:31,625
of you stuff that we never paid for
455
00:14:31,625 --> 00:14:33,458
before. We're starting to pay for now.
456
00:14:34,041 --> 00:14:35,833
Right? And it's the same product. We're
457
00:14:35,833 --> 00:14:37,166
starting to pay for now because they're
458
00:14:37,166 --> 00:14:39,208
realizing they can get more money out of
459
00:14:39,208 --> 00:14:41,166
us. They take stuff that they included in
460
00:14:41,166 --> 00:14:43,166
their product for free and now say, well,
461
00:14:43,166 --> 00:14:44,958
if you want this, you got to level up to
462
00:14:44,958 --> 00:14:46,958
a service package or something like that.
463
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:49,791
And I'm that that gets that gets me
464
00:14:49,791 --> 00:14:51,500
bothered. I'm gonna tell you right now
465
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:53,916
that that gets me going as you can see in
466
00:14:53,916 --> 00:14:55,958
this little bit of a rant. So I think
467
00:14:55,958 --> 00:14:57,500
that's something that like today we
468
00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:59,875
should look at is the economy and how
469
00:14:59,875 --> 00:15:01,541
sustainability can affect the
470
00:15:01,541 --> 00:15:02,958
economical part of a business.
471
00:15:02,958 --> 00:15:06,250
Businesses provide solutions and those
472
00:15:06,250 --> 00:15:07,750
businesses are smart. If they can save
473
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:09,125
money, they will. And if they save the
474
00:15:09,125 --> 00:15:11,458
environment as a benefit, you're going to
475
00:15:11,458 --> 00:15:12,583
hear about it because that's what's
476
00:15:12,583 --> 00:15:14,625
really important to them. They want the
477
00:15:14,625 --> 00:15:16,000
consumers to know that, hey, you know
478
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,083
what? Not only are we saving money in our
479
00:15:18,083 --> 00:15:20,708
supply chain, but we're actually saving
480
00:15:20,708 --> 00:15:22,250
the environment while we do that, while
481
00:15:22,250 --> 00:15:24,875
we reduce emissions, just like Phillips
482
00:15:24,875 --> 00:15:27,083
lighting or while we make things
483
00:15:27,083 --> 00:15:28,291
repairable for
484
00:15:28,291 --> 00:15:30,958
appliances and things like that.
485
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,250
I think it's really important make things
486
00:15:32,250 --> 00:15:34,791
more efficient so you can get better air
487
00:15:34,791 --> 00:15:37,000
conditioning and furnace or heat pumps or
488
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,875
whatever that might be. That's what we
489
00:15:38,875 --> 00:15:41,208
need to see. We need to continue to
490
00:15:41,208 --> 00:15:43,125
incentivize those country or those those
491
00:15:43,125 --> 00:15:45,166
companies and those in our countries need
492
00:15:45,166 --> 00:15:46,625
to really incentivize those through
493
00:15:46,625 --> 00:15:48,875
legislation. And for those who aren't
494
00:15:48,875 --> 00:15:50,750
incentivized or don't want to do that, we
495
00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:52,083
got to make them do it because we got to
496
00:15:52,083 --> 00:15:53,791
protect not only ourselves as consumers,
497
00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:55,666
but we got to protect the environment. We
498
00:15:55,666 --> 00:15:57,833
got to protect the planet, not just in
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00:15:57,833 --> 00:15:59,458
our countries, but all around the world.
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00:15:59,458 --> 00:16:00,958
So that's it for the episode today. I want to thank you for watching. I'm Chris
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00:16:00,958 --> 00:16:03,208
I would love to hear your thoughts on
502
00:16:03,208 --> 00:16:06,291
this DM me links in for the socials in
503
00:16:06,291 --> 00:16:07,916
the show notes. And of course, if you
504
00:16:07,916 --> 00:16:09,083
want to support this show, you can go
505
00:16:09,083 --> 00:16:11,458
speak up for blue.com forward slash
506
00:16:11,458 --> 00:16:12,875
Patreon. You can see what I do on the
507
00:16:12,875 --> 00:16:15,625
podcast on YouTube on Instagram on TikTok
508
00:16:15,625 --> 00:16:17,791
on Facebook, all that kind of stuff. And
509
00:16:17,791 --> 00:16:19,708
yeah, that's it for today's episode of
510
00:16:19,708 --> 00:16:21,083
the how to protect the ocean podcast.
511
00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:22,666
Have a great day. We'll talk to you next
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00:16:22,666 --> 00:16:23,958
time and happy conservation.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,125
Why do companies do sustainable things?
2
00:00:02,333 --> 00:00:03,166
Why do they make their
3
00:00:03,166 --> 00:00:04,458
supply change sustainable?
4
00:00:05,208 --> 00:00:07,041
A lot of times, not just for the sake of
5
00:00:07,041 --> 00:00:08,166
being good for the environment,
6
00:00:08,500 --> 00:00:09,541
a lot of times it's because
7
00:00:09,541 --> 00:00:11,541
they save money, like actual,
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they actually save a lot of money.
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And I think that's really important for
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companies to do that in these times,
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try to keep their prices the same or to
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try to maximize their profits.
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And at the same time,
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when they're sustainable,
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they become better for the environment.
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Today, we're going to be talking about a
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particular company
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called Phillips Lighting
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that found ways to not only be more
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circular, but also save a lot of money.
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And we're going to talk about that on
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today's episode of the How
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to Protect the Ocean podcast,
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because this is the podcast where you
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find out a lot of ocean news and
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sustainability news,
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sustainability, sustainability news.
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And that's what you're going to find this
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week on this podcast, Monday to Friday,
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we're going to be
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talking about sustainability.
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Today, we're going to be talking about
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the economics of
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sustainability and how it can
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benefit companies, not only from a PR
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standpoint, but also from
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a cost saving standpoint,
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which we hope, we hope that
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consumers see that cost savings.
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And I want to know from you right now,
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DM, if you're really struggling,
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do you think companies will pass on their
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savings to the consumer?
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I know they pass on when they have to pay
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more and we have to end up paying more,
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but I want to know, truthfully, if you
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think that business, if they
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save money using a circular
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economy, do they actually lower the
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prices or actually
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keep the prices the same?
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So you end up not
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having to spend more money.
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But we'll talk about that later.
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I want to hear your point
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because I want to support you.
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And if you want to support this show, you
58
00:01:29,791 --> 00:01:31,916
can do so by going to speakupforblue.com,
59
00:01:31,916 --> 00:01:32,833
forward slash Patreon,
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join our Patreon community.
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You can hear stuff from me, ramblings and
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things that I'm trying this new,
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whether it be on YouTube, whether it be
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on podcasting, whether it be on TikTok,
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whether it be on Instagram, all these
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different things that
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I'm going to be trying,
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I'm going to be sharing
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in my Patreon community.
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Plus you get access to some cool videos
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that I'll be showing before
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I release them to the public.
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So check out
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speakupforblue.com forward slash Patreon.
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All right, let's get into today's show
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because, you know, circular
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business models are kind of
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interesting when we
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talk about businesses.
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And yesterday I talked about how
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businesses are where we're
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really going to find solutions.
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Like government can provide solutions
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from a regulatory perspective.
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And we're going to hear that they can
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incentivize businesses to do that.
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And sometimes they
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incentivize in a forceful way.
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And sometimes they incentivize in a nice
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way by giving them tax breaks.
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But for the most part, you know, the
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government's have to put in regulations,
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but businesses are really going to find
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solutions because businesses, no matter
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where you're looking at, whether it's a
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hospital company or an environmentally
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friendly company, they are the ones that
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find solutions because they come up with
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a way to solve a problem.
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That's a business really,
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it's their solution providers.
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And so yesterday we talked about the
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reasoning why they would go sustainable.
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We're going to really focus in on the
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economy today because they look at
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economy, people and profit.
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They were going to be
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focusing on the economy.
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And one company that really stood out to
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me in doing my research for
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this was Phillips Lighting.
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And they now sell a lighting as a service
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rather than a product extending the
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product lifespans
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through maintenance and reuse.
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So think about the
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business model changing.
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You may be buying less bulbs, but you're
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actually spending more on
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maintenance in the long run.
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So you're buying one ball, but you're
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spending more on maintenance and services
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and that kind of stuff
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and reuse, to be honest.
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So I think it's really cool.
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What really happened is aluminum
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recycling provides 95% energy savings
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compared to producing
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aluminum from like a raw bauxite.
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That's where it really comes from.
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So a British study in industrial
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symbiosis, of industrial symbiosis, where
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companies were sharing waste and
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byproducts, found it saved 1.3 billion
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dollars euros in costs and prevented 42
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million tons of CO2 emissions.
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That's a pretty big impact on just how
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things can change when
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you decide to go circular.
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Right. And a PwC Sweden study modeling
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circular business models in electronics
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found they cut operating costs by an
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average of 12% while
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also reducing emissions.
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So we're seeing a benefit here.
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Not only are they saving money, which is
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great for businesses, but they're also
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saving the environment by reducing their
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emissions or their CO2
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emissions, which I think is fantastic.
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Right. And now they're seeing, you know,
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some things that are
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happening with loans and lenders.
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So like the banks, lenders
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are now now evaluate ESG.
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So ecological sustainable goals or
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ecological social goals resilient.
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They look at that ESG resilience
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alongside financial history and a
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sustainably linked loans offer lower
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interest rates for company to companies
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that hit circulatory targets.
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Right. Sorry, sorry.
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Circularity targets.
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And so I think it's really cool when you
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start to see, you know, companies like
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lenders start to lend money by
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incentivizing their companies to lower
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their emissions or improve
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recycling or improve reuse.
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I think to see companies be rewarded for
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that type of behavior is great because
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now you can get access to more lending
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and maybe eventually they're not going to
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lend to companies who are not doing those
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types of goals, not
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hating those types of goals.
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And circularity is becoming a huge factor
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in whether a company gets access to
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capital and not just a
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marketing angle. Right.
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Now, let's let's be honest. When it comes
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to the economy, I have to say this. There
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are companies who greenwash, who bluewash
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everything that they can just to get away
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with it, just to make sure that they can
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show that they have done
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some really cool things.
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But then on the other side, what you
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don't see, right, what doesn't make the
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PR list, right, the public relations
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list, they start to do some bad things to
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people, to the economy and all that kind
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of stuff into the environment.
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So you have to be careful in how this is
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measured. Right. And that's why I
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mentioned it yesterday in the B Corps.
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I think what I like about because
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although it's not perfect and there are
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some companies who kind of, you know,
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push the boundaries, let's just say, in
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terms of the customers that they acquire.
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With their consulting firms and things
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like that, there is a report that was put
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out or an article that was put out a
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couple of years ago about that.
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Where consulting firms were taking on
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like fossil fuel clients and things like
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that. So that was a little problem. So,
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you know, no system is perfect.
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But a lot of these companies are doing
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what they want are doing. What not only
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do they want to do by saving money, but
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they're also being sustainable. I mean,
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and kind of buying into the circularity
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type of business
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model where you can reuse.
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You can recycle, you can have repair if
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you have it and you can take back. And I
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think that's a really great thing because
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we're getting back to those days where
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you can just give like the empty milk
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bottle as a glass bottle back to the milk
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person who's delivering it so that they
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can take it back and
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wash it and reuse it.
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Those are really important aspects when
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you come to a business right now. Imagine
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a company taking back their containers so
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that they can either reuse or recycle or
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repair them and put
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them back into circulation.
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Yeah, obviously not a lot of people, not
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a lot of companies can do that because of
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the types of containers that they use.
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But if you move towards a more
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sustainable container where they can
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actually reuse them or break them down
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better so that they can recycle them into
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the containers again or into something
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else. That provides a lot of value. They
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can get money back for that equipment
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that they gather up. And there's there
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are some some some legislation like I
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don't Canada. There's legislation that's
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going to be starting to
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track the types of containers.
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From a plastic pollution standpoint of
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where this plastic pollution is ending up
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and where they were derived from. Where
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were they made and then how to where they
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end up and who's actually responsible for
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that? Is it the consumer or is it the the
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the company who made the container sold
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it to another company that was able to
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brand it and put it out to the consumer
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and the consumer either litters it or
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can't really do anything with it. You
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know, a lot of coffee cups are notorious
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for that where you think they're because
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they're cardboard,
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but they got this waxy,
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material because they have to stay
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within, you know, they're they've got hot
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water or hot coffee in the container. So
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it has to has to hold up his cardboard or
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his paper. It's got a hold up. So it's
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got this like waxy material right. But
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that waxy material prevents it from being
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recycled. And so a lot of the times these
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coffee cups end up in the recycling bin.
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Now imagine if a if a Starbucks or Tim
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Hortons or Dunkin Donuts makes a
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container that's fully recyclable. That's
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actually fully and they take it back
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themselves. You can actually bring it back to the container.
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Bring it back just like we do at the
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liquor store at the beer store when you
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bring back your empties. And I don't care
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if you can do that in other countries.
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And can if you bring back your empties,
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they will give you money back for it. I
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don't know if you can do it. The liquor
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store that used to be able to do it. You
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can do it at the beer store with the cans
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and they'll give you a deposit back,
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right? They'll give you money back. So
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you may not make your full money back,
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which obviously that's that's never going
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to happen. But you make some money back
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and then pay for more beer or you go pay
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for something else. I remember in
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university when we used to have house
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parties with us, what we do, we collect
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all the cans. We take
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pictures of how many like
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beer cases and all that kind of stuff
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that was there. And then we would drive
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it all back and multiple runs and we
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would give them all in and we'd make like
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300 bucks off the thing. And that would
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go towards paying for repairs or cleaning
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bills for the house that we were renting.
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So it drives value and it drives like if
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you're motivated enough to take it back.
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That's a huge thing. I know, speaking of
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the bottle returns or the can returns,
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there was a retired
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principal who was going around
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raising money for his old school and he
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every every garbage day or recycling day
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he would come by and he would grab the
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bottles and he would grab the cans and he
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would put them in his car and he would go
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and he would turn and he did that for 25
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years where he raised money to support
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various aspects of his school. And you
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don't think it's a lot of money at the
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time. But if you dedicate that time to do
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that and take bottles and take cans and
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take them back, you can actually earn a
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good a good amount of money to pay for
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something that's fine.
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And you can pay for a lot of money if
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you're a good one or to pay for more
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alcohol or to pay for whatever that you
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really want with that money if you can
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make couple hundred bucks off a big a big
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hall like a university party or after
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university party. But anyway, it's
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there's different ways of experiencing
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the circularity. And of course, not all
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companies are going to just do it because
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of the, you know, they got great hearts.
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There are certain aspects where
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governments have to come in and they have
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to say, hey, we're going to put this
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legislation through and you're going to have to abide by it.
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And to do that, you're actually going to
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save some money, but you may have to put
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some money up front, but you're going to
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save some money. So the EU's upcoming
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circular economy act introduces stricter
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product design rules and a digital
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product passport for traceability.
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So the Europe, as I said yesterday, is
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way ahead of the game in a lot of places
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around the world from a lot of places
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around the world. And then it will have
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it also talk about consumer repair
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rights. So the consumers will be able to
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repair because think about this.
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I don't know if you've noticed this is a
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little bit of a rant part of the show. I
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don't know if you've noticed this before.
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But when I when we used to buy my parents
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when they had their fridge or they had
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their dishwasher or they had their oven
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or washer and dryer, we had that. I
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remember for most of my life, like the
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first 25 years of my life. Maybe it got
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00:11:21,833 --> 00:11:24,000
replaced once in my lifetime. But
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00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,500
appliances back then
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lasted for 20 to 25 years.
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Furnaces, air conditioners, all that kind
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of stuff that lasted for 20 to 25 years.
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I'm not sure if you've noticed this
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00:11:35,125 --> 00:11:37,666
lately, but if you own any appliances or
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you have owned any appliances, even if
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you're renting a house that have
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appliances, those things break very soon,
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like under 25 years, under
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20 years, under 10 years.
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A lot of the times when something breaks,
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it's actually cheaper to buy a new one
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than it is to repair the broken piece or
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00:11:54,625 --> 00:11:57,125
whatever was broken on that appliance.
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Think about that. Think about the waste
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that is generated from there.
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Instead of going to a repair place, you
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00:12:03,333 --> 00:12:04,708
have to go back to because there's not as
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00:12:04,708 --> 00:12:06,833
many of those repair places or having a
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00:12:06,833 --> 00:12:09,708
person come over to fix that. That
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problem, you would take it back to the
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00:12:12,583 --> 00:12:14,125
store because they'd have like a 10 year
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00:12:14,125 --> 00:12:15,500
warranty and then they say, yeah, it's
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actually just better. We
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00:12:16,250 --> 00:12:17,250
just give you a new one.
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00:12:17,958 --> 00:12:20,375
Where does all that metal go? Where does
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00:12:20,375 --> 00:12:22,750
all of those pieces of those appliances
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that are either plastic or metal or some
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00:12:24,958 --> 00:12:29,208
kind of material that may or may not get
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recycled? Now, metal would get recycled,
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00:12:31,041 --> 00:12:32,833
but some of the stuff is all plastic and
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00:12:32,833 --> 00:12:33,750
some of the stuff is not great.
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00:12:34,083 --> 00:12:35,750
Then there's some chemicals in some of
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00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:37,791
them to make them work. And those don't
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00:12:37,791 --> 00:12:39,458
get recycled. And if they don't last for
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00:12:39,458 --> 00:12:40,750
more than five or 10
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00:12:40,750 --> 00:12:42,958
years, what's the point of that?
401
00:12:43,333 --> 00:12:44,708
So I think governments have a
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00:12:44,708 --> 00:12:46,750
responsibility to tell these companies to
403
00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:48,625
say, Hey, you know what? Remember how you
404
00:12:48,625 --> 00:12:50,875
used to make these products a lot better
405
00:12:50,875 --> 00:12:54,000
and they still last a lot longer? We're
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00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:54,958
going to do that again.
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00:12:55,625 --> 00:12:57,416
We're going to make you do that again
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00:12:57,416 --> 00:12:59,583
because we get what you're trying to do.
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00:12:59,583 --> 00:13:01,500
You're trying to make people buy more. So
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00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:03,416
if you get something, say you buy like a
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00:13:03,416 --> 00:13:04,666
fridge and it breaks down
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00:13:04,666 --> 00:13:05,958
after like, say, 10 years.
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00:13:06,958 --> 00:13:07,875
Well, then you have to buy another
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00:13:07,875 --> 00:13:09,583
fridge, right? And a lot of times when
415
00:13:09,583 --> 00:13:11,125
it's repair, you're not going to order
416
00:13:11,125 --> 00:13:12,333
the other part because it might take a
417
00:13:12,333 --> 00:13:14,166
long time, especially when you consider
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00:13:14,166 --> 00:13:15,500
these days where it's like next day
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00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:17,000
delivery. It might take a few weeks and
420
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,916
you want that part or you can't go
421
00:13:18,916 --> 00:13:19,833
without a fridge for very
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00:13:19,833 --> 00:13:20,958
long. All that kind of stuff.
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00:13:20,958 --> 00:13:24,416
There are so many reasons to just buy a
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00:13:24,416 --> 00:13:27,666
new fridge, right? But if there's a
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00:13:27,666 --> 00:13:29,208
legislation that puts it through that
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00:13:29,208 --> 00:13:30,791
says, Hey, you know what? Like there's a
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00:13:30,791 --> 00:13:32,500
right to repair for these consumers. They
428
00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:34,250
don't have to go out and buy and spend
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00:13:34,250 --> 00:13:35,541
another 800 to 1200,
430
00:13:35,875 --> 00:13:37,583
1500 bucks on a fridge.
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00:13:38,208 --> 00:13:39,375
Fridge are expensive. Fridges are
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00:13:39,375 --> 00:13:42,000
expensive. Appliances are expensive. So
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00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,208
to have legislation like this upcoming
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00:13:44,208 --> 00:13:46,958
circular economy act, this is great. Like
435
00:13:46,958 --> 00:13:48,458
for the EU, but I would love it in
436
00:13:48,458 --> 00:13:49,958
Canada. Love to see it in the US. Let's see it in Mexico.
437
00:13:49,958 --> 00:13:53,208
Let's see it in Australia. You know, like
438
00:13:53,208 --> 00:13:55,875
in the UK, it'd be great. So I think we
439
00:13:55,875 --> 00:13:58,291
should be looking at what countries are
440
00:13:58,291 --> 00:14:00,458
doing just like country started are
441
00:14:00,458 --> 00:14:03,166
starting to look at the bands on on
442
00:14:03,166 --> 00:14:05,875
single use plastic and start to copy
443
00:14:05,875 --> 00:14:07,541
those look at what works, what doesn't
444
00:14:07,541 --> 00:14:09,666
and take that into considerations for
445
00:14:09,666 --> 00:14:12,208
your country, your unique aspect and put
446
00:14:12,208 --> 00:14:15,125
those suckers into legislation. Right?
447
00:14:15,125 --> 00:14:17,083
Protect the consumer protect the
448
00:14:17,083 --> 00:14:18,958
environment and probably the companies will probably eventually see that.
449
00:14:18,958 --> 00:14:20,291
Companies will probably eventually save
450
00:14:20,291 --> 00:14:23,333
money on marketing on sales and
451
00:14:23,333 --> 00:14:25,000
everything like that. But I feel like
452
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,375
companies are just so greedy these days.
453
00:14:27,708 --> 00:14:29,958
They want to milk everything they can out
454
00:14:29,958 --> 00:14:31,625
of you stuff that we never paid for
455
00:14:31,625 --> 00:14:33,458
before. We're starting to pay for now.
456
00:14:34,041 --> 00:14:35,833
Right? And it's the same product. We're
457
00:14:35,833 --> 00:14:37,166
starting to pay for now because they're
458
00:14:37,166 --> 00:14:39,208
realizing they can get more money out of
459
00:14:39,208 --> 00:14:41,166
us. They take stuff that they included in
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00:14:41,166 --> 00:14:43,166
their product for free and now say, well,
461
00:14:43,166 --> 00:14:44,958
if you want this, you got to level up to
462
00:14:44,958 --> 00:14:46,958
a service package or something like that.
463
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:49,791
And I'm that that gets that gets me
464
00:14:49,791 --> 00:14:51,500
bothered. I'm gonna tell you right now
465
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:53,916
that that gets me going as you can see in
466
00:14:53,916 --> 00:14:55,958
this little bit of a rant. So I think
467
00:14:55,958 --> 00:14:57,500
that's something that like today we
468
00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:59,875
should look at is the economy and how
469
00:14:59,875 --> 00:15:01,541
sustainability can affect the
470
00:15:01,541 --> 00:15:02,958
economical part of a business.
471
00:15:02,958 --> 00:15:06,250
Businesses provide solutions and those
472
00:15:06,250 --> 00:15:07,750
businesses are smart. If they can save
473
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:09,125
money, they will. And if they save the
474
00:15:09,125 --> 00:15:11,458
environment as a benefit, you're going to
475
00:15:11,458 --> 00:15:12,583
hear about it because that's what's
476
00:15:12,583 --> 00:15:14,625
really important to them. They want the
477
00:15:14,625 --> 00:15:16,000
consumers to know that, hey, you know
478
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,083
what? Not only are we saving money in our
479
00:15:18,083 --> 00:15:20,708
supply chain, but we're actually saving
480
00:15:20,708 --> 00:15:22,250
the environment while we do that, while
481
00:15:22,250 --> 00:15:24,875
we reduce emissions, just like Phillips
482
00:15:24,875 --> 00:15:27,083
lighting or while we make things
483
00:15:27,083 --> 00:15:28,291
repairable for
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00:15:28,291 --> 00:15:30,958
appliances and things like that.
485
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,250
I think it's really important make things
486
00:15:32,250 --> 00:15:34,791
more efficient so you can get better air
487
00:15:34,791 --> 00:15:37,000
conditioning and furnace or heat pumps or
488
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,875
whatever that might be. That's what we
489
00:15:38,875 --> 00:15:41,208
need to see. We need to continue to
490
00:15:41,208 --> 00:15:43,125
incentivize those country or those those
491
00:15:43,125 --> 00:15:45,166
companies and those in our countries need
492
00:15:45,166 --> 00:15:46,625
to really incentivize those through
493
00:15:46,625 --> 00:15:48,875
legislation. And for those who aren't
494
00:15:48,875 --> 00:15:50,750
incentivized or don't want to do that, we
495
00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:52,083
got to make them do it because we got to
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00:15:52,083 --> 00:15:53,791
protect not only ourselves as consumers,
497
00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:55,666
but we got to protect the environment. We
498
00:15:55,666 --> 00:15:57,833
got to protect the planet, not just in
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00:15:57,833 --> 00:15:59,458
our countries, but all around the world.
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00:15:59,458 --> 00:16:00,958
So that's it for the episode today. I want to thank you for watching. I'm Chris
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00:16:00,958 --> 00:16:03,208
I would love to hear your thoughts on
502
00:16:03,208 --> 00:16:06,291
this DM me links in for the socials in
503
00:16:06,291 --> 00:16:07,916
the show notes. And of course, if you
504
00:16:07,916 --> 00:16:09,083
want to support this show, you can go
505
00:16:09,083 --> 00:16:11,458
speak up for blue.com forward slash
506
00:16:11,458 --> 00:16:12,875
Patreon. You can see what I do on the
507
00:16:12,875 --> 00:16:15,625
podcast on YouTube on Instagram on TikTok
508
00:16:15,625 --> 00:16:17,791
on Facebook, all that kind of stuff. And
509
00:16:17,791 --> 00:16:19,708
yeah, that's it for today's episode of
510
00:16:19,708 --> 00:16:21,083
the how to protect the ocean podcast.
511
00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:22,666
Have a great day. We'll talk to you next
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00:16:22,666 --> 00:16:23,958
time and happy conservation.
