Aug. 24, 2026
A Summer Internship, Thirty Years, and One Career for the Ages
A grad student faces a simple choice: write another term paper, or take a summer internship. She takes the internship, gets assigned to sea turtles, and thirty years later she is in the room for some of the most consequential ocean policy agreements ever negotiated. This episode traces that career from the beginning, and it starts with a realization that shapes everything that follows: sea turtles do not read maps. They cross every border humans have drawn, which means protecting them requires countries to cooperate, not compete.
Andrew walks through the arc of this career step by step. It starts with an anthropology degree and a grad-school detour into public policy, an internship with an NGO in Washington, D.C., then called the Center for Marine Conservation, and a growing understanding that migratory ocean species force international cooperation whether countries want it or not. From there the story moves through the State Department, more than a decade on international tuna negotiations, and eventually a role at the International Sustainable Seafood Foundation (ISSF). Along the way, Andrew connects the story to his own winding path from marine biology researcher to ocean communications manager, and makes the case that careers in ocean conservation rarely move in a straight line.
This episode kicks off a five-part week on How to Protect the Ocean. Tuesday looks at corals nearly as old as the pyramids and the fight to save them. Wednesday covers the High Seas Treaty and the moment the gavel dropped. Thursday breaks down seafood policy and what retailers need to know about what shoppers actually want. Friday brings the full interview with the person at the center of this week's story.
Takeaways:
- Careers in ocean conservation rarely move in a straight line. This one started with choosing an internship over a term paper and grew into three decades of international policy work.
- Migratory species that ignore national borders, like sea turtles, are the practical reason international cooperation and multilateral ocean agreements exist at all.
- Green sea turtle populations are showing real improvement, a genuinely hopeful data point inside an episode that's otherwise about policy and negotiation.
- This is episode one of five leading into Friday's full interview with the guest whose career this episode traces.
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Transcript
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I want to take you on a journey.
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This is of a career of a person who
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actually lived this journey.
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And I think it's incredible
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and I want to share it with you.
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I'm not going to name
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the name of the person.
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We're going to find out later on the week
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because that is the
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person I'm going to interview.
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But this person started
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off as a grad student.
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They take a summer internship instead of
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writing a term paper.
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That's the choice term
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paper or summer internship.
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And obviously she took the internship,
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gets assigned the sea turtle,
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and ends up spending the next 30 years
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deciding how the world is going to manage
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ocean species and how human impacts
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affect those ocean species.
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It's quite the journey that I want to
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share for you because this
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is what we're going to do on
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the How to Protect the Ocean podcast is
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we're going to tell stories.
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We're going to give you hope in the ocean
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by showing you what
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people are doing for the ocean.
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And the goal really is here at How to
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Protect the Ocean to
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calm that ocean anxiety,
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calm that climate anxiety into knowledge,
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knowing what's happening with the ocean,
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to empower you to go talk about it to
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your family and friends.
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To be honest, it
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actually makes you feel better.
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Studies are showing it makes you feel
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better about the ocean to
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have more knowledge and have
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this as a resource for this podcast.
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Not the study that looked at this
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podcast, but a study said, hey, if you
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talk more about the ocean
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and you talk about the
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people, it'll make you feel better.
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Now don't combat and debate with people,
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but talk about the
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ocean and the two people who
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want to know more about the ocean.
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I hope that you can take the stories that
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we tell on this
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podcast and humble people,
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and they will enjoy it just as much as
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you did listening to
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what I'm about to tell you.
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So if you enjoy this type of information
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and you want to share that information,
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hit that follow button right now.
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And of course, don't forget to share it
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with somebody that you
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think would do well with this
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kind of information.
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All right. So let's
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talk about this person.
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This person grew up in Michigan, went to
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school in Ohio and
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Indiana with no international
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degree. Grew up in the US, straight up
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US, knows what's in the US.
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Grew up in anthropology
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with anthropology degree.
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In grad school, decided to
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do public policy coursework.
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It's a weird step to take.
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Like you're in anthropology, you're going
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to have to policy
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because in anthropology,
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looking at how humans
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affect the environment.
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So public policy is really how to manage
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humans in and around the environment.
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If you're looking at policy within the
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environment, the chosen internship over
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writing a term paper,
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which to be honest, I get that you want
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to experience, right?
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If you ever have the chance to choose
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between a paper, writing
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a paper and going for an
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internship, go for the internship.
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Getting that valuable
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experience is so, so important.
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So the internship placed this person with
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an NGO in Washington, DC.
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It was then called the Center of Marine
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Conservation, and then
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this person was working
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on sea turtles.
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That's pretty cool to come out of
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university or being in
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university in grad school and being
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able to work on sea turtles.
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Just as an aside, that is
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one of my favorite species.
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That is a species that I would probably
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study if I was studying a particular
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species in research.
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Sea turtles is where I would go.
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They have a great community.
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Sea turtles are really fascinating.
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They need our help.
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It's working with the
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help that we've seen.
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We've seen the green
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sea turtles do better.
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It's pretty cool, like
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what we're able to see.
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Now, the one thing that really got to
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this person about sea turtles and what
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really hooked them into
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going further in this route, like into
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oceans, was that they
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realized that sea turtles,
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they don't read maps.
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They don't stay within borders.
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They don't respect
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any kind of boundaries.
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When they go into the ocean, when they
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are hatched and they
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incubate in their sand sort
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of den and they hatch and they get out
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when they go into the ocean.
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Now, if they survive getting to the
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ocean, when they get to
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the ocean, they start going
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everywhere.
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They don't just stay within, say, the
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exclusive economic zone of
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the US or Canada or Mexico
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or anything like that,
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any country like that.
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They just go across borders.
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And we know this because
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we've tagged sea turtles before.
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Dr. Wallace J.
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Nichols, may he rest in
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peace, was one of the first
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people on a project tagged in a sea
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turtle in Baja,
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California, in Mexico, and it went
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all the way to Japan.
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That's how far the tag went.
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That's how far the turtle went.
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That's where they found the tag.
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This is an old school tag too, not like a
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tag that you can
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actually watch as you go like
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a satellite tag.
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This is a tag like somebody found the
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turtle with the tag and
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then reported it back on
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the listserv and they were able to say,
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"Oh my gosh, it's in Japan."
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Cool country, by the way.
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So we know that these sea turtles go
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very, very long distances.
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And so knowing that where they don't
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respect boundaries and
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they migrate long distances
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and they run into different gear,
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different vessels
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flagged to different countries.
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They can get caught by whatever.
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They can get hit by a boat.
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They can get eaten by an animal.
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They can get caught in fishing nets.
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They can get caught in a
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lot of different things.
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So the question that became this person's
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entire career is how do
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you manage and protect
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a species that
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ignores every single border?
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And the answer for that person was
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international cooperation.
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So that internship put her in the same
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room as state
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department staff and it can't
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evolve from there.
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It grew her, it really showed her the
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light of where this
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person could be most effective.
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And I think the interesting thing is like
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after that, working in
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the state department,
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working in the office of marine
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conservation, looking at
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international tuna negotiations
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until 2012, then working at the
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international sustainable seafood
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foundation starting in
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2014, like almost a 30 year total.
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This is how we are looking at a career
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that takes you all
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these different places.
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It's not just on sea
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turtles at this point.
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It's as this person starts working on
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policy and starts working
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with a variety of different
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animals and a variety of different human
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actions in the ocean.
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The person realized that their career can
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go much bigger and
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should go much bigger in
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order to protect these species that live
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in this wonderful ocean.
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And it's all connected.
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And so you can't just manage within the
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US easy economic exclusive zone.
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You can't just do that in Canada's easy.
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You can't do this in Mexico, you can't do
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it in Europe or Britain or any of those.
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The UK, you can't.
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You have to understand that it requires
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cooperation on an international level,
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depending on where these animals go.
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Countries can protect the animals that
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are within their border.
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They cannot protect animals that are
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outside the border in
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the high seas or elsewhere.
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When you start to realize how this
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connectedness works around the world, you
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start to get like in
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the mindset from a career perspective of
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like, how can I make a difference?
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How can I be involved with protecting a
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species that goes over every border?
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And that's what this person did.
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This person went from
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place to place to place.
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It's quite fascinating in learning how
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this person you learn on
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Friday, how this person
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started being involved on major
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negotiations from negotiating in the UN
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General Assembly with
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deep sea trawling.
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So going into working with the UN General
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Assembly on working on
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managing deep sea trawling and
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looking at how the effect of deep sea
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trawling affected the
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bottom and how it affected these
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coral habitats that are
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like thousands of years old.
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And if they go one pass of a trawl,
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bottom trawl can destroy
263
01:07:09,458 --> 01:07:11,041
that area or that section
264
01:07:11,041 --> 01:07:13,541
for quite a long time or that pass
265
01:07:13,541 --> 01:07:14,541
through, whatever the
266
01:07:14,541 --> 01:07:16,375
width of that net is.
267
01:07:16,750 --> 01:07:17,958
And this person is
268
01:07:17,958 --> 01:07:19,458
part of that negotiation.
269
01:07:19,791 --> 01:07:21,083
That is part of
270
01:07:21,125 --> 01:07:23,083
international fisheries negotiations.
271
01:07:23,125 --> 01:07:24,500
They're part of like seafood
272
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:27,416
sustainability negotiations and policy.
273
01:07:27,666 --> 01:07:29,833
Part of the high seas treaty is in the
274
01:07:29,833 --> 01:07:31,500
room when the high seas
275
01:07:31,500 --> 01:07:33,041
treaty was agreed upon.
276
01:07:33,541 --> 01:07:36,583
When that gavel hit down and you saw
277
01:07:36,583 --> 01:07:38,083
everybody become emotional
278
01:07:38,083 --> 01:07:40,166
because it was 20 years of
279
01:07:40,208 --> 01:07:41,708
blood, sweat and tears that
280
01:07:41,708 --> 01:07:43,291
went into that negotiation.
281
01:07:43,541 --> 01:07:46,250
And the battles, the little battle that
282
01:07:46,250 --> 01:07:47,416
happened within these
283
01:07:47,416 --> 01:07:50,208
negotiations is what shapes the
284
01:07:50,208 --> 01:07:52,250
final products that
285
01:07:52,250 --> 01:07:54,166
might change in the future.
286
01:07:54,166 --> 01:07:55,000
But that's the product
287
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:56,125
that people agreed upon.
288
01:07:56,166 --> 01:07:56,875
That becomes the
289
01:07:56,875 --> 01:07:59,416
regulation that the world agrees on.
290
01:07:59,666 --> 01:08:02,458
Imagine being in a room with delegates
291
01:08:02,458 --> 01:08:03,375
from all around the
292
01:08:03,375 --> 01:08:05,833
world, over 150 countries,
293
01:08:06,250 --> 01:08:07,708
and you are
294
01:08:07,708 --> 01:08:10,000
negotiating to protect a species.
295
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,833
You are speaking up for species, for
296
01:08:12,833 --> 01:08:14,333
habitats, for the ocean.
297
01:08:14,333 --> 01:08:15,750
You are there advocating for the ocean,
298
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:16,250
but you're also
299
01:08:16,250 --> 01:08:17,708
advocating for the country that
300
01:08:17,708 --> 01:08:19,250
you're representing when you're there or
301
01:08:19,291 --> 01:08:20,041
the organization that
302
01:08:20,041 --> 01:08:20,583
you're representing.
303
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:23,166
A lot of the NGOs are representing the
304
01:08:23,166 --> 01:08:24,875
environment, the ocean habitats.
305
01:08:25,166 --> 01:08:27,083
All that negotiation, there's compromise
306
01:08:27,083 --> 01:08:27,916
that has to be made.
307
01:08:28,041 --> 01:08:30,333
And you have to get like a base agreement
308
01:08:30,333 --> 01:08:32,000
for the information that
309
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:33,791
is in those regulations
310
01:08:33,791 --> 01:08:35,625
or in that policy that will shape the
311
01:08:35,625 --> 01:08:37,125
policy for another 10,
312
01:08:37,125 --> 01:08:38,500
20, 30 years until it gets
313
01:08:38,500 --> 01:08:40,250
small amendments as it gets made through.
314
01:08:40,666 --> 01:08:42,958
It is incredibly difficult thing to do,
315
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:44,291
especially when it comes down the ocean.
316
01:08:44,291 --> 01:08:46,458
Every country has their own agenda and
317
01:08:46,458 --> 01:08:47,583
they want to be heard
318
01:08:47,583 --> 01:08:48,791
and they want to felt like
319
01:08:48,791 --> 01:08:49,458
they were heard.
320
01:08:49,791 --> 01:08:51,458
Every indigenous group that are part of
321
01:08:51,458 --> 01:08:52,541
those countries want to
322
01:08:52,541 --> 01:08:53,666
be heard and they need to
323
01:08:53,666 --> 01:08:54,166
be heard.
324
01:08:54,541 --> 01:08:56,500
And then you can't just ignore one and
325
01:08:56,500 --> 01:08:57,958
expect them to like one
326
01:08:57,958 --> 01:08:59,208
country or one indigenous
327
01:08:59,208 --> 01:09:00,541
group and then put a policy through and
328
01:09:00,541 --> 01:09:01,875
expect them to vote yes on it.
329
01:09:02,375 --> 01:09:05,291
So imagine having to please over a
330
01:09:05,291 --> 01:09:06,250
hundred people that
331
01:09:06,250 --> 01:09:08,416
represents millions, if not billions
332
01:09:08,416 --> 01:09:09,416
of people around the world.
333
01:09:09,583 --> 01:09:10,875
And you have to make
334
01:09:10,875 --> 01:09:11,458
sure that you can do it.
335
01:09:11,458 --> 01:09:12,375
So it's almost like this,
336
01:09:12,375 --> 01:09:13,416
everybody's in the tent.
337
01:09:13,458 --> 01:09:15,041
You've got to keep staying the one tent,
338
01:09:15,125 --> 01:09:16,750
stay that base tent, and
339
01:09:16,750 --> 01:09:17,750
then you can go off and
340
01:09:17,750 --> 01:09:18,916
do other things later on.
341
01:09:19,125 --> 01:09:21,791
But it has to be in that one area that
342
01:09:21,791 --> 01:09:22,833
everybody agrees and
343
01:09:22,833 --> 01:09:23,875
everybody's okay with.
344
01:09:23,916 --> 01:09:25,666
They're not all happy, but they're okay.
345
01:09:25,666 --> 01:09:26,375
We're like, you know what?
346
01:09:26,375 --> 01:09:28,250
We're looking at this policy as it stands
347
01:09:28,291 --> 01:09:29,416
and we're going forward.
348
01:09:29,416 --> 01:09:30,291
We're moving forward.
349
01:09:30,708 --> 01:09:32,166
And it doesn't necessarily mean that
350
01:09:32,166 --> 01:09:33,375
these international
351
01:09:33,375 --> 01:09:35,291
agreements are for one ocean.
352
01:09:35,291 --> 01:09:36,583
Like it's all every ocean.
353
01:09:36,875 --> 01:09:39,500
They could be for smaller management
354
01:09:39,500 --> 01:09:41,041
areas around the world.
355
01:09:41,291 --> 01:09:43,041
I mean small, I'm still talking about
356
01:09:43,083 --> 01:09:44,708
millions of square kilometers.
357
01:09:45,208 --> 01:09:47,916
But as the world gets divided up into
358
01:09:47,916 --> 01:09:49,250
these management areas,
359
01:09:49,250 --> 01:09:51,041
there's policies that go
360
01:09:51,166 --> 01:09:53,125
and various countries that are a part of
361
01:09:53,125 --> 01:09:54,250
that, that make up that
362
01:09:54,250 --> 01:09:55,666
management area because
363
01:09:55,666 --> 01:09:57,791
of geography or because of interest.
364
01:09:58,208 --> 01:09:59,958
And so there's a set of rules around each
365
01:09:59,958 --> 01:10:00,750
of those management
366
01:10:00,750 --> 01:10:01,791
areas where you can say,
367
01:10:01,791 --> 01:10:03,416
"Hey, this matters.
368
01:10:03,708 --> 01:10:05,291
This matters to us and we want to make
369
01:10:05,291 --> 01:10:06,208
sure that we are heard.
370
01:10:06,208 --> 01:10:07,708
We want to make sure that we can still
371
01:10:07,708 --> 01:10:08,916
function within this
372
01:10:09,041 --> 01:10:10,000
and we are happy with it."
373
01:10:10,208 --> 01:10:11,083
It could be just based.
374
01:10:11,125 --> 01:10:12,583
Not everybody's going to be happy, but
375
01:10:12,583 --> 01:10:14,458
they could work with the negotiations.
376
01:10:14,458 --> 01:10:15,875
They can work with what's living there,
377
01:10:15,875 --> 01:10:16,750
the living document.
378
01:10:17,291 --> 01:10:18,166
And so imagine you
379
01:10:18,166 --> 01:10:19,750
start off as an intern.
380
01:10:20,083 --> 01:10:21,500
Because as a student, as a grad student,
381
01:10:21,500 --> 01:10:23,250
you're given a paper or an intern.
382
01:10:23,708 --> 01:10:25,416
You get assigned, you're an anthropology
383
01:10:25,416 --> 01:10:26,250
graduate, but you get
384
01:10:26,250 --> 01:10:27,875
assigned, I mean the public policy
385
01:10:27,875 --> 01:10:28,583
program that you're in,
386
01:10:28,625 --> 01:10:29,958
you get assigned sea turtles.
387
01:10:30,375 --> 01:10:31,666
So you start looking at sea turtles.
388
01:10:31,666 --> 01:10:33,416
You realize quickly that sea turtles
389
01:10:33,458 --> 01:10:34,375
don't follow borders.
390
01:10:34,416 --> 01:10:35,708
They go all over the place.
391
01:10:35,833 --> 01:10:37,833
So how do you manage, like from policy
392
01:10:37,833 --> 01:10:38,833
perspective, how do you
393
01:10:38,833 --> 01:10:40,458
manage those sea turtles if they
394
01:10:40,458 --> 01:10:41,416
start to go everywhere?
395
01:10:41,708 --> 01:10:42,166
You got to have
396
01:10:42,166 --> 01:10:43,416
international cooperation.
397
01:10:43,750 --> 01:10:45,000
You have to have these
398
01:10:45,250 --> 01:10:46,750
different management areas.
399
01:10:46,916 --> 01:10:48,583
You have to be able to negotiate with
400
01:10:48,583 --> 01:10:49,875
multiple countries at a time
401
01:10:50,041 --> 01:10:51,541
and really be there for the
402
01:10:51,541 --> 01:10:53,250
animals, but also be there for your own
403
01:10:53,250 --> 01:10:54,250
country and other countries
404
01:10:54,250 --> 01:10:55,833
to ensure that they are happy
405
01:10:55,875 --> 01:10:56,958
with the outcome.
406
01:10:57,375 --> 01:10:59,916
This is not just a story about a career
407
01:10:59,916 --> 01:11:00,833
and how it develops.
408
01:11:00,833 --> 01:11:02,083
I mean, that's part of the journey.
409
01:11:02,500 --> 01:11:04,333
A lot of people that I talked to asked,
410
01:11:04,458 --> 01:11:05,291
"Hey, Andrew, my
411
01:11:05,291 --> 01:11:06,208
daughter's in high school.
412
01:11:06,250 --> 01:11:07,250
My son's in high school.
413
01:11:07,416 --> 01:11:08,416
My child's in high school.
414
01:11:08,625 --> 01:11:11,000
How do they become a marine biologist?"
415
01:11:11,291 --> 01:11:12,041
And I tell them, like,
416
01:11:12,041 --> 01:11:13,041
"What do they want to study?"
417
01:11:13,416 --> 01:11:14,750
What's their interest?
418
01:11:15,083 --> 01:11:16,500
Trying to get them to niche down.
419
01:11:16,875 --> 01:11:17,500
And they want to know
420
01:11:17,500 --> 01:11:18,166
what the next step is.
421
01:11:18,166 --> 01:11:19,000
They want to know how to grow.
422
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,708
They want to know what kind of job to do
423
01:11:20,708 --> 01:11:21,541
and everything like this.
424
01:11:21,708 --> 01:11:24,125
And a lot of the times when you look at
425
01:11:24,166 --> 01:11:26,333
your idea, like an idea
426
01:11:26,333 --> 01:11:27,458
of a career, and you just
427
01:11:27,458 --> 01:11:29,416
look at what's available to you, just
428
01:11:29,416 --> 01:11:30,291
like this person in the
429
01:11:30,291 --> 01:11:32,291
story did, they went from
430
01:11:32,333 --> 01:11:34,541
graduate student, internship, public
431
01:11:34,541 --> 01:11:37,083
policy, international negotiations.
432
01:11:37,458 --> 01:11:38,625
They followed their passion
433
01:11:38,625 --> 01:11:39,958
and what was important to them.
434
01:11:40,541 --> 01:11:42,458
So I think sometimes when we talk about
435
01:11:42,458 --> 01:11:44,125
careers, we get involved in
436
01:11:44,125 --> 01:11:46,250
the career and growing within
437
01:11:46,250 --> 01:11:46,791
that career.
438
01:11:46,791 --> 01:11:48,500
And we kind of have these blinders to
439
01:11:48,500 --> 01:11:49,166
everything else that's
440
01:11:49,166 --> 01:11:51,541
around us and shut the door on any
441
01:11:51,541 --> 01:11:53,083
other opportunities that we may or may
442
01:11:53,083 --> 01:11:54,541
not love in the future.
443
01:11:54,916 --> 01:11:57,250
As a marine biologist that started off as
444
01:11:57,250 --> 01:11:57,958
a marine biologist and
445
01:11:57,958 --> 01:11:58,750
wanted to do research,
446
01:11:58,791 --> 01:12:00,500
now I'm an ocean communications manager
447
01:12:00,500 --> 01:12:01,833
for a consulting firm
448
01:12:01,875 --> 01:12:03,583
that has the ability to scale
449
01:12:03,583 --> 01:12:05,416
my impact by working with a number of
450
01:12:05,416 --> 01:12:06,500
different clients on
451
01:12:06,541 --> 01:12:08,000
having positive ocean impact.
452
01:12:08,333 --> 01:12:09,416
That is a big change
453
01:12:09,416 --> 01:12:10,500
throughout my career.
454
01:12:10,958 --> 01:12:12,666
And the career wasn't a straight line.
455
01:12:12,666 --> 01:12:13,583
It just wasn't from one
456
01:12:13,583 --> 01:12:14,625
opportunity to another to another.
457
01:12:14,625 --> 01:12:16,541
I had to create my own opportunities.
458
01:12:16,875 --> 01:12:18,666
But I did that by following what I loved,
459
01:12:18,666 --> 01:12:19,708
by realizing what I
460
01:12:19,708 --> 01:12:21,041
loved and getting out of my
461
01:12:21,041 --> 01:12:22,083
own way in terms of
462
01:12:22,083 --> 01:12:23,250
like, I need to do this.
463
01:12:23,250 --> 01:12:25,000
The only thing I was stubborn about is I
464
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:26,666
need to do something for the ocean.
465
01:12:26,958 --> 01:12:27,916
That is my mission.
466
01:12:28,375 --> 01:12:29,583
And then as I went through, there were
467
01:12:29,583 --> 01:12:31,541
certain likes and dislikes that I have.
468
01:12:31,666 --> 01:12:33,375
And communication won out.
469
01:12:33,791 --> 01:12:35,791
And here I am at the age of 47 with a
470
01:12:35,791 --> 01:12:37,083
full-time job working as
471
01:12:37,083 --> 01:12:38,000
an ocean communications
472
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:38,333
manager.
473
01:12:38,791 --> 01:12:41,291
The person who went from an internship to
474
01:12:41,291 --> 01:12:42,041
looking at sea
475
01:12:42,041 --> 01:12:43,625
turtles and public policy to
476
01:12:43,625 --> 01:12:44,208
going to a state
477
01:12:44,208 --> 01:12:45,708
department, then going international.
478
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,000
Now that person is in a place where
479
01:12:48,041 --> 01:12:49,458
they're working on major
480
01:12:49,458 --> 01:12:50,750
international agreements.
481
01:12:51,041 --> 01:12:52,916
And now that person's ended up working
482
01:12:52,916 --> 01:12:54,250
with TUNA and looking at
483
01:12:54,250 --> 01:12:55,666
agreements with TUNA and seafood.
484
01:12:56,083 --> 01:12:57,500
Everybody has their own path.
485
01:12:57,833 --> 01:12:59,500
One of the points of the story is don't
486
01:12:59,500 --> 01:13:01,541
just pigeonhole yourself into one area.
487
01:13:02,083 --> 01:13:03,541
Be open to the different areas that you
488
01:13:03,541 --> 01:13:04,541
may or may not fall in
489
01:13:04,541 --> 01:13:06,041
love with as you grow older,
490
01:13:06,166 --> 01:13:09,375
as you evolve as a marine biologist, as a
491
01:13:09,375 --> 01:13:11,125
researcher, as a
492
01:13:11,125 --> 01:13:13,000
conservationist, as a public
493
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:15,125
policy person, as a politician.
494
01:13:15,375 --> 01:13:17,125
You may end up in any of those categories
495
01:13:17,125 --> 01:13:17,916
depending on what you
496
01:13:17,916 --> 01:13:19,125
feel is important at
497
01:13:19,125 --> 01:13:19,541
that point.
498
01:13:19,541 --> 01:13:21,583
At one point in my career, I looked at
499
01:13:21,583 --> 01:13:22,458
what I was doing as
500
01:13:22,458 --> 01:13:23,291
working with government, as
501
01:13:23,291 --> 01:13:24,833
working with nonprofits, as working with
502
01:13:24,916 --> 01:13:26,000
environmental consulting.
503
01:13:26,208 --> 01:13:27,583
And I finally said to myself, like the
504
01:13:27,583 --> 01:13:28,750
one thing that is really
505
01:13:28,750 --> 01:13:30,958
missing to me in conservation is
506
01:13:30,958 --> 01:13:32,833
the fact that the public, the people who
507
01:13:32,833 --> 01:13:34,083
are outside that are not
508
01:13:34,083 --> 01:13:35,416
being talked to about the
509
01:13:35,458 --> 01:13:37,333
ocean on a regular basis are the biggest
510
01:13:37,333 --> 01:13:39,708
gap that exists in ocean conservation.
511
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,083
And so I decided to start some sort of
512
01:13:42,083 --> 01:13:43,666
communication, end up being a podcast
513
01:13:43,666 --> 01:13:45,041
after a couple of trials,
514
01:13:45,041 --> 01:13:47,625
as you know, that ends up being my path
515
01:13:47,708 --> 01:13:49,291
because that's what I feel is important.
516
01:13:49,625 --> 01:13:50,625
And there are a lot of other people who
517
01:13:50,625 --> 01:13:51,541
go different routes and
518
01:13:51,541 --> 01:13:52,541
that's great because we
519
01:13:52,541 --> 01:13:54,166
need the help in any way we can get.
520
01:13:54,541 --> 01:13:56,666
But the whole point is this career in
521
01:13:56,666 --> 01:13:57,958
this story, this person
522
01:13:57,958 --> 01:13:59,625
found it by looking at what
523
01:13:59,625 --> 01:14:00,916
was available to her
524
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:01,875
and then followed it.
525
01:14:02,250 --> 01:14:03,083
And we're going to be speaking to that
526
01:14:03,083 --> 01:14:04,083
person on Wednesday and
527
01:14:04,083 --> 01:14:05,291
we're going to be discussing some
528
01:14:05,291 --> 01:14:06,875
of the things that this person was a part
529
01:14:06,875 --> 01:14:08,291
of over the next couple of days.
530
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:09,375
And I think that's important.
531
01:14:09,375 --> 01:14:11,041
We're going to talk tomorrow about how
532
01:14:11,083 --> 01:14:12,416
corals is almost as old as
533
01:14:12,416 --> 01:14:13,958
pyramids and the fight to save
534
01:14:13,958 --> 01:14:15,666
them. That's going to be tomorrow's
535
01:14:15,666 --> 01:14:17,166
episode. On Wednesday's
536
01:14:17,166 --> 01:14:18,375
episode, we're going to be talking
537
01:14:18,375 --> 01:14:20,750
about the high seas treaty and how that
538
01:14:20,750 --> 01:14:22,291
gavel that dropped made
539
01:14:22,291 --> 01:14:25,125
people weep and become emotional in
540
01:14:25,125 --> 01:14:26,500
the room because of all the work that
541
01:14:26,500 --> 01:14:28,041
they did and how important
542
01:14:28,041 --> 01:14:30,000
policy is to the high seas.
543
01:14:30,250 --> 01:14:31,916
And then on Thursday, we're going to be
544
01:14:31,916 --> 01:14:34,250
talking about the seafood
545
01:14:34,250 --> 01:14:36,291
policy and how seafood and how
546
01:14:36,333 --> 01:14:40,125
consumer driven markets really show what
547
01:14:40,208 --> 01:14:42,583
retailers need to know about what the
548
01:14:42,583 --> 01:14:43,541
public wants in terms
549
01:14:43,541 --> 01:14:45,458
of their seafood being sustainable. And
550
01:14:45,458 --> 01:14:46,583
then on Friday, we have an
551
01:14:46,583 --> 01:14:47,958
interview with the person I
552
01:14:47,958 --> 01:14:49,000
talked about today. I'm not going to
553
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:50,958
reveal that person's name. I gave some
554
01:14:50,958 --> 01:14:51,916
clues as we went along,
555
01:14:52,166 --> 01:14:53,875
but we're going to be talking to that
556
01:14:53,875 --> 01:14:55,458
person on Friday about
557
01:14:55,458 --> 01:14:56,958
the policy and about Tuna.
558
01:14:57,166 --> 01:14:58,250
And it's going to be a lot of fun.
559
01:14:58,666 --> 01:15:01,125
So that's it for today's episode. I hope
560
01:15:01,125 --> 01:15:02,375
you enjoyed the story
561
01:15:02,416 --> 01:15:03,875
about careers. I mean,
562
01:15:03,916 --> 01:15:05,625
it fits people who ask me about careers
563
01:15:05,625 --> 01:15:06,500
all the time, but it also
564
01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:08,000
fits the people who want to
565
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:09,791
know what it's like to be in public
566
01:15:09,791 --> 01:15:11,416
policy and to have that kind of
567
01:15:11,458 --> 01:15:12,708
information. So I'd love to hear
568
01:15:12,708 --> 01:15:14,625
your thoughts on this podcast. And of
569
01:15:14,625 --> 01:15:15,750
course, I'd love to hear any
570
01:15:15,791 --> 01:15:16,541
kind of questions you have,
571
01:15:16,541 --> 01:15:17,833
any kind of subject materials that you
572
01:15:17,833 --> 01:15:19,416
want me to hear about. You
573
01:15:19,416 --> 01:15:20,791
can also check out Ocean Decoded
574
01:15:20,791 --> 01:15:22,708
Live where I go live every weekday,
575
01:15:22,708 --> 01:15:24,166
Monday to Thursday at 4pm
576
01:15:24,166 --> 01:15:25,708
Eastern between 4 and 6pm Eastern,
577
01:15:25,750 --> 01:15:27,416
depending on my day. We cover all the
578
01:15:27,416 --> 01:15:28,750
latest news that's happening
579
01:15:28,791 --> 01:15:30,250
in the ocean and some of the
580
01:15:30,250 --> 01:15:31,875
stuff that's on here as well, but you'll
581
01:15:31,875 --> 01:15:33,500
get a lot of new stuff and some visuals
582
01:15:33,500 --> 01:15:34,000
and stuff like that.
583
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:35,583
It's a lot of fun. But anyway, that's it
584
01:15:35,583 --> 01:15:36,666
for today's episode. I
585
01:15:36,666 --> 01:15:37,916
really appreciate you listening.
586
01:15:38,083 --> 01:15:40,000
If you haven't done so yet, follow this
587
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:41,291
podcast so you don't miss
588
01:15:41,291 --> 01:15:43,000
any of the rest of the week's
589
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:44,666
episodes. And of course, five days a
590
01:15:44,666 --> 01:15:45,916
week, Monday to Friday, that's when we
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01:15:45,916 --> 01:15:47,375
post. And I want to thank
592
01:15:47,375 --> 01:15:49,000
you so much for joining me on today's
593
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:50,416
episode of the How to Protect the Ocean
594
01:15:50,416 --> 01:15:51,416
podcast. Have a great
595
01:15:51,416 --> 01:15:52,000
day. We'll talk to you next
596
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:53,583
time and happy conservation.
01:00:00,166 --> 01:00:01,375
I want to take you on a journey.
2
01:00:01,541 --> 01:00:03,791
This is of a career of a person who
3
01:00:03,791 --> 01:00:05,750
actually lived this journey.
4
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:07,250
And I think it's incredible
5
01:00:07,250 --> 01:00:08,333
and I want to share it with you.
6
01:00:08,750 --> 01:00:09,333
I'm not going to name
7
01:00:09,333 --> 01:00:10,125
the name of the person.
8
01:00:10,333 --> 01:00:11,708
We're going to find out later on the week
9
01:00:11,708 --> 01:00:12,375
because that is the
10
01:00:12,375 --> 01:00:13,291
person I'm going to interview.
11
01:00:13,666 --> 01:00:15,000
But this person started
12
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:16,000
off as a grad student.
13
01:00:16,708 --> 01:00:18,958
They take a summer internship instead of
14
01:00:18,958 --> 01:00:20,208
writing a term paper.
15
01:00:20,208 --> 01:00:21,166
That's the choice term
16
01:00:21,166 --> 01:00:22,666
paper or summer internship.
17
01:00:22,875 --> 01:00:24,250
And obviously she took the internship,
18
01:00:24,541 --> 01:00:25,875
gets assigned the sea turtle,
19
01:00:26,625 --> 01:00:29,041
and ends up spending the next 30 years
20
01:00:29,041 --> 01:00:31,625
deciding how the world is going to manage
21
01:00:32,083 --> 01:00:35,000
ocean species and how human impacts
22
01:00:35,083 --> 01:00:36,750
affect those ocean species.
23
01:00:37,250 --> 01:00:38,833
It's quite the journey that I want to
24
01:00:38,833 --> 01:00:40,291
share for you because this
25
01:00:40,291 --> 01:00:41,208
is what we're going to do on
26
01:00:41,208 --> 01:00:42,500
the How to Protect the Ocean podcast is
27
01:00:42,500 --> 01:00:43,500
we're going to tell stories.
28
01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:46,666
We're going to give you hope in the ocean
29
01:00:46,666 --> 01:00:47,791
by showing you what
30
01:00:47,791 --> 01:00:49,833
people are doing for the ocean.
31
01:00:50,125 --> 01:00:52,375
And the goal really is here at How to
32
01:00:52,375 --> 01:00:53,625
Protect the Ocean to
33
01:00:53,666 --> 01:00:55,458
calm that ocean anxiety,
34
01:00:55,500 --> 01:00:58,166
calm that climate anxiety into knowledge,
35
01:00:58,458 --> 01:01:00,250
knowing what's happening with the ocean,
36
01:01:00,291 --> 01:01:02,958
to empower you to go talk about it to
37
01:01:02,958 --> 01:01:04,458
your family and friends.
38
01:01:04,541 --> 01:01:05,208
To be honest, it
39
01:01:05,208 --> 01:01:06,041
actually makes you feel better.
40
01:01:06,041 --> 01:01:07,000
Studies are showing it makes you feel
41
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,208
better about the ocean to
42
01:01:08,208 --> 01:01:09,916
have more knowledge and have
43
01:01:09,916 --> 01:01:11,500
this as a resource for this podcast.
44
01:01:11,500 --> 01:01:12,791
Not the study that looked at this
45
01:01:12,791 --> 01:01:14,625
podcast, but a study said, hey, if you
46
01:01:14,625 --> 01:01:15,916
talk more about the ocean
47
01:01:16,208 --> 01:01:16,875
and you talk about the
48
01:01:16,875 --> 01:01:18,583
people, it'll make you feel better.
49
01:01:18,791 --> 01:01:20,875
Now don't combat and debate with people,
50
01:01:20,875 --> 01:01:21,708
but talk about the
51
01:01:21,708 --> 01:01:22,750
ocean and the two people who
52
01:01:22,750 --> 01:01:24,583
want to know more about the ocean.
53
01:01:24,625 --> 01:01:26,291
I hope that you can take the stories that
54
01:01:26,291 --> 01:01:27,083
we tell on this
55
01:01:27,083 --> 01:01:28,875
podcast and humble people,
56
01:01:28,875 --> 01:01:30,416
and they will enjoy it just as much as
57
01:01:30,416 --> 01:01:31,416
you did listening to
58
01:01:31,458 --> 01:01:32,958
what I'm about to tell you.
59
01:01:33,208 --> 01:01:35,458
So if you enjoy this type of information
60
01:01:35,458 --> 01:01:36,916
and you want to share that information,
61
01:01:37,125 --> 01:01:38,375
hit that follow button right now.
62
01:01:38,375 --> 01:01:39,916
And of course, don't forget to share it
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01:01:39,916 --> 01:01:41,041
with somebody that you
64
01:01:41,041 --> 01:01:42,583
think would do well with this
65
01:01:42,583 --> 01:01:43,416
kind of information.
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01:01:43,833 --> 01:01:44,416
All right. So let's
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01:01:44,416 --> 01:01:45,708
talk about this person.
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01:01:45,791 --> 01:01:47,416
This person grew up in Michigan, went to
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01:01:47,416 --> 01:01:48,500
school in Ohio and
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01:01:48,500 --> 01:01:50,958
Indiana with no international
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01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,916
degree. Grew up in the US, straight up
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01:01:52,916 --> 01:01:55,125
US, knows what's in the US.
73
01:01:55,333 --> 01:01:56,541
Grew up in anthropology
74
01:01:56,833 --> 01:01:57,875
with anthropology degree.
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01:01:58,250 --> 01:02:00,041
In grad school, decided to
76
01:02:00,041 --> 01:02:01,833
do public policy coursework.
77
01:02:01,958 --> 01:02:03,708
It's a weird step to take.
78
01:02:03,708 --> 01:02:05,000
Like you're in anthropology, you're going
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01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:05,541
to have to policy
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01:02:05,541 --> 01:02:06,416
because in anthropology,
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01:02:06,416 --> 01:02:07,458
looking at how humans
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01:02:07,458 --> 01:02:08,500
affect the environment.
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01:02:08,750 --> 01:02:11,416
So public policy is really how to manage
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01:02:11,416 --> 01:02:13,000
humans in and around the environment.
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01:02:13,041 --> 01:02:14,375
If you're looking at policy within the
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01:02:14,375 --> 01:02:16,708
environment, the chosen internship over
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01:02:16,708 --> 01:02:17,833
writing a term paper,
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01:02:17,833 --> 01:02:19,541
which to be honest, I get that you want
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01:02:19,541 --> 01:02:20,541
to experience, right?
90
01:02:20,666 --> 01:02:22,458
If you ever have the chance to choose
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01:02:22,458 --> 01:02:23,750
between a paper, writing
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01:02:23,750 --> 01:02:24,625
a paper and going for an
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01:02:24,625 --> 01:02:25,875
internship, go for the internship.
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01:02:26,166 --> 01:02:26,958
Getting that valuable
95
01:02:26,958 --> 01:02:28,750
experience is so, so important.
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01:02:29,250 --> 01:02:31,541
So the internship placed this person with
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01:02:31,541 --> 01:02:33,708
an NGO in Washington, DC.
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01:02:34,208 --> 01:02:35,791
It was then called the Center of Marine
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01:02:35,791 --> 01:02:36,958
Conservation, and then
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01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:37,708
this person was working
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01:02:37,708 --> 01:02:38,250
on sea turtles.
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01:02:38,250 --> 01:02:39,250
That's pretty cool to come out of
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01:02:39,250 --> 01:02:40,333
university or being in
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01:02:40,333 --> 01:02:41,750
university in grad school and being
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01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:42,916
able to work on sea turtles.
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01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:44,666
Just as an aside, that is
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01:02:44,708 --> 01:02:45,708
one of my favorite species.
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01:02:45,708 --> 01:02:47,000
That is a species that I would probably
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01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:48,375
study if I was studying a particular
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01:02:48,375 --> 01:02:49,625
species in research.
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01:02:49,875 --> 01:02:51,333
Sea turtles is where I would go.
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01:02:51,333 --> 01:02:52,833
They have a great community.
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01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:54,708
Sea turtles are really fascinating.
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01:02:54,750 --> 01:02:55,791
They need our help.
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01:02:56,083 --> 01:02:57,166
It's working with the
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01:02:57,166 --> 01:02:57,916
help that we've seen.
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01:02:57,916 --> 01:02:58,750
We've seen the green
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01:02:58,750 --> 01:03:00,166
sea turtles do better.
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01:03:00,250 --> 01:03:01,166
It's pretty cool, like
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01:03:01,166 --> 01:03:02,125
what we're able to see.
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01:03:02,625 --> 01:03:04,875
Now, the one thing that really got to
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01:03:04,875 --> 01:03:06,958
this person about sea turtles and what
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01:03:06,958 --> 01:03:08,708
really hooked them into
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01:03:08,833 --> 01:03:11,291
going further in this route, like into
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01:03:11,291 --> 01:03:12,708
oceans, was that they
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01:03:12,708 --> 01:03:14,291
realized that sea turtles,
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01:03:14,375 --> 01:03:15,500
they don't read maps.
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01:03:15,500 --> 01:03:17,000
They don't stay within borders.
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01:03:17,208 --> 01:03:18,041
They don't respect
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01:03:18,083 --> 01:03:19,041
any kind of boundaries.
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01:03:19,083 --> 01:03:20,708
When they go into the ocean, when they
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01:03:20,708 --> 01:03:22,708
are hatched and they
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01:03:22,708 --> 01:03:25,000
incubate in their sand sort
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01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,500
of den and they hatch and they get out
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01:03:27,583 --> 01:03:28,666
when they go into the ocean.
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01:03:28,666 --> 01:03:30,041
Now, if they survive getting to the
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01:03:30,041 --> 01:03:31,416
ocean, when they get to
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01:03:31,416 --> 01:03:32,958
the ocean, they start going
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01:03:32,958 --> 01:03:33,375
everywhere.
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01:03:33,458 --> 01:03:35,208
They don't just stay within, say, the
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01:03:35,208 --> 01:03:36,333
exclusive economic zone of
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01:03:36,333 --> 01:03:39,125
the US or Canada or Mexico
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01:03:39,125 --> 01:03:40,083
or anything like that,
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01:03:40,125 --> 01:03:40,916
any country like that.
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01:03:40,916 --> 01:03:42,708
They just go across borders.
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01:03:43,125 --> 01:03:44,083
And we know this because
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01:03:44,083 --> 01:03:45,791
we've tagged sea turtles before.
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01:03:46,125 --> 01:03:46,875
Dr. Wallace J.
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01:03:46,875 --> 01:03:47,750
Nichols, may he rest in
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01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:48,916
peace, was one of the first
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01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,375
people on a project tagged in a sea
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01:03:51,375 --> 01:03:52,541
turtle in Baja,
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01:03:52,541 --> 01:03:54,958
California, in Mexico, and it went
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01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:56,250
all the way to Japan.
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01:03:56,708 --> 01:03:57,916
That's how far the tag went.
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01:03:57,916 --> 01:03:59,000
That's how far the turtle went.
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01:03:59,208 --> 01:04:00,125
That's where they found the tag.
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01:04:00,416 --> 01:04:02,041
This is an old school tag too, not like a
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01:04:02,041 --> 01:04:02,625
tag that you can
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01:04:02,625 --> 01:04:03,625
actually watch as you go like
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01:04:03,625 --> 01:04:04,333
a satellite tag.
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01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:05,833
This is a tag like somebody found the
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01:04:05,833 --> 01:04:07,000
turtle with the tag and
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01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:08,000
then reported it back on
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01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:09,458
the listserv and they were able to say,
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01:04:09,500 --> 01:04:11,333
"Oh my gosh, it's in Japan."
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01:04:11,708 --> 01:04:12,583
Cool country, by the way.
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01:04:12,833 --> 01:04:14,958
So we know that these sea turtles go
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01:04:15,041 --> 01:04:16,916
very, very long distances.
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01:04:17,083 --> 01:04:19,500
And so knowing that where they don't
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01:04:19,500 --> 01:04:20,833
respect boundaries and
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01:04:20,833 --> 01:04:22,500
they migrate long distances
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01:04:22,583 --> 01:04:24,250
and they run into different gear,
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01:04:24,583 --> 01:04:25,875
different vessels
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01:04:26,083 --> 01:04:27,791
flagged to different countries.
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01:04:27,791 --> 01:04:29,750
They can get caught by whatever.
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01:04:29,750 --> 01:04:31,083
They can get hit by a boat.
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01:04:31,250 --> 01:04:32,583
They can get eaten by an animal.
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01:04:32,583 --> 01:04:34,333
They can get caught in fishing nets.
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01:04:34,333 --> 01:04:35,083
They can get caught in a
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01:04:35,083 --> 01:04:36,083
lot of different things.
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01:04:36,375 --> 01:04:38,291
So the question that became this person's
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01:04:38,333 --> 01:04:40,250
entire career is how do
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01:04:40,250 --> 01:04:41,833
you manage and protect
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01:04:41,833 --> 01:04:42,416
a species that
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01:04:42,416 --> 01:04:44,250
ignores every single border?
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01:04:44,708 --> 01:04:46,625
And the answer for that person was
188
01:04:46,666 --> 01:04:48,083
international cooperation.
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01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:50,916
So that internship put her in the same
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01:04:50,916 --> 01:04:51,791
room as state
191
01:04:51,791 --> 01:04:53,750
department staff and it can't
192
01:04:53,750 --> 01:04:54,583
evolve from there.
193
01:04:54,708 --> 01:04:56,916
It grew her, it really showed her the
194
01:04:56,916 --> 01:04:58,541
light of where this
195
01:04:58,541 --> 01:05:01,583
person could be most effective.
196
01:05:02,083 --> 01:05:04,375
And I think the interesting thing is like
197
01:05:04,375 --> 01:05:05,625
after that, working in
198
01:05:05,625 --> 01:05:06,708
the state department,
199
01:05:06,916 --> 01:05:08,000
working in the office of marine
200
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:09,750
conservation, looking at
201
01:05:09,791 --> 01:05:11,833
international tuna negotiations
202
01:05:11,833 --> 01:05:14,416
until 2012, then working at the
203
01:05:14,416 --> 01:05:16,041
international sustainable seafood
204
01:05:16,041 --> 01:05:17,375
foundation starting in
205
01:05:17,375 --> 01:05:19,875
2014, like almost a 30 year total.
206
01:05:20,208 --> 01:05:23,666
This is how we are looking at a career
207
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:24,583
that takes you all
208
01:05:24,583 --> 01:05:25,666
these different places.
209
01:05:25,666 --> 01:05:27,041
It's not just on sea
210
01:05:27,041 --> 01:05:28,125
turtles at this point.
211
01:05:28,333 --> 01:05:31,000
It's as this person starts working on
212
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:32,541
policy and starts working
213
01:05:32,541 --> 01:05:34,666
with a variety of different
214
01:05:34,708 --> 01:05:37,208
animals and a variety of different human
215
01:05:37,208 --> 01:05:38,750
actions in the ocean.
216
01:05:39,250 --> 01:05:41,291
The person realized that their career can
217
01:05:41,291 --> 01:05:42,625
go much bigger and
218
01:05:42,625 --> 01:05:43,875
should go much bigger in
219
01:05:43,875 --> 01:05:46,375
order to protect these species that live
220
01:05:46,375 --> 01:05:48,166
in this wonderful ocean.
221
01:05:48,583 --> 01:05:49,625
And it's all connected.
222
01:05:49,875 --> 01:05:52,583
And so you can't just manage within the
223
01:05:52,583 --> 01:05:54,791
US easy economic exclusive zone.
224
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:56,958
You can't just do that in Canada's easy.
225
01:05:56,958 --> 01:05:58,333
You can't do this in Mexico, you can't do
226
01:05:58,333 --> 01:06:00,708
it in Europe or Britain or any of those.
227
01:06:00,916 --> 01:06:01,875
The UK, you can't.
228
01:06:01,958 --> 01:06:04,875
You have to understand that it requires
229
01:06:04,875 --> 01:06:07,541
cooperation on an international level,
230
01:06:07,666 --> 01:06:09,708
depending on where these animals go.
231
01:06:10,083 --> 01:06:11,833
Countries can protect the animals that
232
01:06:11,833 --> 01:06:12,958
are within their border.
233
01:06:13,375 --> 01:06:14,916
They cannot protect animals that are
234
01:06:14,916 --> 01:06:15,791
outside the border in
235
01:06:15,791 --> 01:06:17,666
the high seas or elsewhere.
236
01:06:17,958 --> 01:06:21,166
When you start to realize how this
237
01:06:21,166 --> 01:06:23,375
connectedness works around the world, you
238
01:06:23,375 --> 01:06:24,708
start to get like in
239
01:06:24,708 --> 01:06:27,041
the mindset from a career perspective of
240
01:06:27,041 --> 01:06:28,541
like, how can I make a difference?
241
01:06:28,791 --> 01:06:31,750
How can I be involved with protecting a
242
01:06:31,750 --> 01:06:33,666
species that goes over every border?
243
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:35,166
And that's what this person did.
244
01:06:35,625 --> 01:06:36,666
This person went from
245
01:06:36,916 --> 01:06:38,041
place to place to place.
246
01:06:38,083 --> 01:06:40,750
It's quite fascinating in learning how
247
01:06:40,750 --> 01:06:41,625
this person you learn on
248
01:06:41,625 --> 01:06:43,208
Friday, how this person
249
01:06:43,250 --> 01:06:46,083
started being involved on major
250
01:06:46,083 --> 01:06:49,333
negotiations from negotiating in the UN
251
01:06:49,333 --> 01:06:50,416
General Assembly with
252
01:06:50,416 --> 01:06:51,333
deep sea trawling.
253
01:06:51,416 --> 01:06:54,041
So going into working with the UN General
254
01:06:54,041 --> 01:06:55,541
Assembly on working on
255
01:06:55,583 --> 01:06:57,750
managing deep sea trawling and
256
01:06:57,750 --> 01:06:59,416
looking at how the effect of deep sea
257
01:06:59,416 --> 01:07:00,500
trawling affected the
258
01:07:00,500 --> 01:07:02,416
bottom and how it affected these
259
01:07:02,500 --> 01:07:04,000
coral habitats that are
260
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:05,833
like thousands of years old.
261
01:07:06,125 --> 01:07:08,083
And if they go one pass of a trawl,
262
01:07:08,083 --> 01:07:09,458
bottom trawl can destroy
263
01:07:09,458 --> 01:07:11,041
that area or that section
264
01:07:11,041 --> 01:07:13,541
for quite a long time or that pass
265
01:07:13,541 --> 01:07:14,541
through, whatever the
266
01:07:14,541 --> 01:07:16,375
width of that net is.
267
01:07:16,750 --> 01:07:17,958
And this person is
268
01:07:17,958 --> 01:07:19,458
part of that negotiation.
269
01:07:19,791 --> 01:07:21,083
That is part of
270
01:07:21,125 --> 01:07:23,083
international fisheries negotiations.
271
01:07:23,125 --> 01:07:24,500
They're part of like seafood
272
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:27,416
sustainability negotiations and policy.
273
01:07:27,666 --> 01:07:29,833
Part of the high seas treaty is in the
274
01:07:29,833 --> 01:07:31,500
room when the high seas
275
01:07:31,500 --> 01:07:33,041
treaty was agreed upon.
276
01:07:33,541 --> 01:07:36,583
When that gavel hit down and you saw
277
01:07:36,583 --> 01:07:38,083
everybody become emotional
278
01:07:38,083 --> 01:07:40,166
because it was 20 years of
279
01:07:40,208 --> 01:07:41,708
blood, sweat and tears that
280
01:07:41,708 --> 01:07:43,291
went into that negotiation.
281
01:07:43,541 --> 01:07:46,250
And the battles, the little battle that
282
01:07:46,250 --> 01:07:47,416
happened within these
283
01:07:47,416 --> 01:07:50,208
negotiations is what shapes the
284
01:07:50,208 --> 01:07:52,250
final products that
285
01:07:52,250 --> 01:07:54,166
might change in the future.
286
01:07:54,166 --> 01:07:55,000
But that's the product
287
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:56,125
that people agreed upon.
288
01:07:56,166 --> 01:07:56,875
That becomes the
289
01:07:56,875 --> 01:07:59,416
regulation that the world agrees on.
290
01:07:59,666 --> 01:08:02,458
Imagine being in a room with delegates
291
01:08:02,458 --> 01:08:03,375
from all around the
292
01:08:03,375 --> 01:08:05,833
world, over 150 countries,
293
01:08:06,250 --> 01:08:07,708
and you are
294
01:08:07,708 --> 01:08:10,000
negotiating to protect a species.
295
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,833
You are speaking up for species, for
296
01:08:12,833 --> 01:08:14,333
habitats, for the ocean.
297
01:08:14,333 --> 01:08:15,750
You are there advocating for the ocean,
298
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:16,250
but you're also
299
01:08:16,250 --> 01:08:17,708
advocating for the country that
300
01:08:17,708 --> 01:08:19,250
you're representing when you're there or
301
01:08:19,291 --> 01:08:20,041
the organization that
302
01:08:20,041 --> 01:08:20,583
you're representing.
303
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:23,166
A lot of the NGOs are representing the
304
01:08:23,166 --> 01:08:24,875
environment, the ocean habitats.
305
01:08:25,166 --> 01:08:27,083
All that negotiation, there's compromise
306
01:08:27,083 --> 01:08:27,916
that has to be made.
307
01:08:28,041 --> 01:08:30,333
And you have to get like a base agreement
308
01:08:30,333 --> 01:08:32,000
for the information that
309
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:33,791
is in those regulations
310
01:08:33,791 --> 01:08:35,625
or in that policy that will shape the
311
01:08:35,625 --> 01:08:37,125
policy for another 10,
312
01:08:37,125 --> 01:08:38,500
20, 30 years until it gets
313
01:08:38,500 --> 01:08:40,250
small amendments as it gets made through.
314
01:08:40,666 --> 01:08:42,958
It is incredibly difficult thing to do,
315
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:44,291
especially when it comes down the ocean.
316
01:08:44,291 --> 01:08:46,458
Every country has their own agenda and
317
01:08:46,458 --> 01:08:47,583
they want to be heard
318
01:08:47,583 --> 01:08:48,791
and they want to felt like
319
01:08:48,791 --> 01:08:49,458
they were heard.
320
01:08:49,791 --> 01:08:51,458
Every indigenous group that are part of
321
01:08:51,458 --> 01:08:52,541
those countries want to
322
01:08:52,541 --> 01:08:53,666
be heard and they need to
323
01:08:53,666 --> 01:08:54,166
be heard.
324
01:08:54,541 --> 01:08:56,500
And then you can't just ignore one and
325
01:08:56,500 --> 01:08:57,958
expect them to like one
326
01:08:57,958 --> 01:08:59,208
country or one indigenous
327
01:08:59,208 --> 01:09:00,541
group and then put a policy through and
328
01:09:00,541 --> 01:09:01,875
expect them to vote yes on it.
329
01:09:02,375 --> 01:09:05,291
So imagine having to please over a
330
01:09:05,291 --> 01:09:06,250
hundred people that
331
01:09:06,250 --> 01:09:08,416
represents millions, if not billions
332
01:09:08,416 --> 01:09:09,416
of people around the world.
333
01:09:09,583 --> 01:09:10,875
And you have to make
334
01:09:10,875 --> 01:09:11,458
sure that you can do it.
335
01:09:11,458 --> 01:09:12,375
So it's almost like this,
336
01:09:12,375 --> 01:09:13,416
everybody's in the tent.
337
01:09:13,458 --> 01:09:15,041
You've got to keep staying the one tent,
338
01:09:15,125 --> 01:09:16,750
stay that base tent, and
339
01:09:16,750 --> 01:09:17,750
then you can go off and
340
01:09:17,750 --> 01:09:18,916
do other things later on.
341
01:09:19,125 --> 01:09:21,791
But it has to be in that one area that
342
01:09:21,791 --> 01:09:22,833
everybody agrees and
343
01:09:22,833 --> 01:09:23,875
everybody's okay with.
344
01:09:23,916 --> 01:09:25,666
They're not all happy, but they're okay.
345
01:09:25,666 --> 01:09:26,375
We're like, you know what?
346
01:09:26,375 --> 01:09:28,250
We're looking at this policy as it stands
347
01:09:28,291 --> 01:09:29,416
and we're going forward.
348
01:09:29,416 --> 01:09:30,291
We're moving forward.
349
01:09:30,708 --> 01:09:32,166
And it doesn't necessarily mean that
350
01:09:32,166 --> 01:09:33,375
these international
351
01:09:33,375 --> 01:09:35,291
agreements are for one ocean.
352
01:09:35,291 --> 01:09:36,583
Like it's all every ocean.
353
01:09:36,875 --> 01:09:39,500
They could be for smaller management
354
01:09:39,500 --> 01:09:41,041
areas around the world.
355
01:09:41,291 --> 01:09:43,041
I mean small, I'm still talking about
356
01:09:43,083 --> 01:09:44,708
millions of square kilometers.
357
01:09:45,208 --> 01:09:47,916
But as the world gets divided up into
358
01:09:47,916 --> 01:09:49,250
these management areas,
359
01:09:49,250 --> 01:09:51,041
there's policies that go
360
01:09:51,166 --> 01:09:53,125
and various countries that are a part of
361
01:09:53,125 --> 01:09:54,250
that, that make up that
362
01:09:54,250 --> 01:09:55,666
management area because
363
01:09:55,666 --> 01:09:57,791
of geography or because of interest.
364
01:09:58,208 --> 01:09:59,958
And so there's a set of rules around each
365
01:09:59,958 --> 01:10:00,750
of those management
366
01:10:00,750 --> 01:10:01,791
areas where you can say,
367
01:10:01,791 --> 01:10:03,416
"Hey, this matters.
368
01:10:03,708 --> 01:10:05,291
This matters to us and we want to make
369
01:10:05,291 --> 01:10:06,208
sure that we are heard.
370
01:10:06,208 --> 01:10:07,708
We want to make sure that we can still
371
01:10:07,708 --> 01:10:08,916
function within this
372
01:10:09,041 --> 01:10:10,000
and we are happy with it."
373
01:10:10,208 --> 01:10:11,083
It could be just based.
374
01:10:11,125 --> 01:10:12,583
Not everybody's going to be happy, but
375
01:10:12,583 --> 01:10:14,458
they could work with the negotiations.
376
01:10:14,458 --> 01:10:15,875
They can work with what's living there,
377
01:10:15,875 --> 01:10:16,750
the living document.
378
01:10:17,291 --> 01:10:18,166
And so imagine you
379
01:10:18,166 --> 01:10:19,750
start off as an intern.
380
01:10:20,083 --> 01:10:21,500
Because as a student, as a grad student,
381
01:10:21,500 --> 01:10:23,250
you're given a paper or an intern.
382
01:10:23,708 --> 01:10:25,416
You get assigned, you're an anthropology
383
01:10:25,416 --> 01:10:26,250
graduate, but you get
384
01:10:26,250 --> 01:10:27,875
assigned, I mean the public policy
385
01:10:27,875 --> 01:10:28,583
program that you're in,
386
01:10:28,625 --> 01:10:29,958
you get assigned sea turtles.
387
01:10:30,375 --> 01:10:31,666
So you start looking at sea turtles.
388
01:10:31,666 --> 01:10:33,416
You realize quickly that sea turtles
389
01:10:33,458 --> 01:10:34,375
don't follow borders.
390
01:10:34,416 --> 01:10:35,708
They go all over the place.
391
01:10:35,833 --> 01:10:37,833
So how do you manage, like from policy
392
01:10:37,833 --> 01:10:38,833
perspective, how do you
393
01:10:38,833 --> 01:10:40,458
manage those sea turtles if they
394
01:10:40,458 --> 01:10:41,416
start to go everywhere?
395
01:10:41,708 --> 01:10:42,166
You got to have
396
01:10:42,166 --> 01:10:43,416
international cooperation.
397
01:10:43,750 --> 01:10:45,000
You have to have these
398
01:10:45,250 --> 01:10:46,750
different management areas.
399
01:10:46,916 --> 01:10:48,583
You have to be able to negotiate with
400
01:10:48,583 --> 01:10:49,875
multiple countries at a time
401
01:10:50,041 --> 01:10:51,541
and really be there for the
402
01:10:51,541 --> 01:10:53,250
animals, but also be there for your own
403
01:10:53,250 --> 01:10:54,250
country and other countries
404
01:10:54,250 --> 01:10:55,833
to ensure that they are happy
405
01:10:55,875 --> 01:10:56,958
with the outcome.
406
01:10:57,375 --> 01:10:59,916
This is not just a story about a career
407
01:10:59,916 --> 01:11:00,833
and how it develops.
408
01:11:00,833 --> 01:11:02,083
I mean, that's part of the journey.
409
01:11:02,500 --> 01:11:04,333
A lot of people that I talked to asked,
410
01:11:04,458 --> 01:11:05,291
"Hey, Andrew, my
411
01:11:05,291 --> 01:11:06,208
daughter's in high school.
412
01:11:06,250 --> 01:11:07,250
My son's in high school.
413
01:11:07,416 --> 01:11:08,416
My child's in high school.
414
01:11:08,625 --> 01:11:11,000
How do they become a marine biologist?"
415
01:11:11,291 --> 01:11:12,041
And I tell them, like,
416
01:11:12,041 --> 01:11:13,041
"What do they want to study?"
417
01:11:13,416 --> 01:11:14,750
What's their interest?
418
01:11:15,083 --> 01:11:16,500
Trying to get them to niche down.
419
01:11:16,875 --> 01:11:17,500
And they want to know
420
01:11:17,500 --> 01:11:18,166
what the next step is.
421
01:11:18,166 --> 01:11:19,000
They want to know how to grow.
422
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,708
They want to know what kind of job to do
423
01:11:20,708 --> 01:11:21,541
and everything like this.
424
01:11:21,708 --> 01:11:24,125
And a lot of the times when you look at
425
01:11:24,166 --> 01:11:26,333
your idea, like an idea
426
01:11:26,333 --> 01:11:27,458
of a career, and you just
427
01:11:27,458 --> 01:11:29,416
look at what's available to you, just
428
01:11:29,416 --> 01:11:30,291
like this person in the
429
01:11:30,291 --> 01:11:32,291
story did, they went from
430
01:11:32,333 --> 01:11:34,541
graduate student, internship, public
431
01:11:34,541 --> 01:11:37,083
policy, international negotiations.
432
01:11:37,458 --> 01:11:38,625
They followed their passion
433
01:11:38,625 --> 01:11:39,958
and what was important to them.
434
01:11:40,541 --> 01:11:42,458
So I think sometimes when we talk about
435
01:11:42,458 --> 01:11:44,125
careers, we get involved in
436
01:11:44,125 --> 01:11:46,250
the career and growing within
437
01:11:46,250 --> 01:11:46,791
that career.
438
01:11:46,791 --> 01:11:48,500
And we kind of have these blinders to
439
01:11:48,500 --> 01:11:49,166
everything else that's
440
01:11:49,166 --> 01:11:51,541
around us and shut the door on any
441
01:11:51,541 --> 01:11:53,083
other opportunities that we may or may
442
01:11:53,083 --> 01:11:54,541
not love in the future.
443
01:11:54,916 --> 01:11:57,250
As a marine biologist that started off as
444
01:11:57,250 --> 01:11:57,958
a marine biologist and
445
01:11:57,958 --> 01:11:58,750
wanted to do research,
446
01:11:58,791 --> 01:12:00,500
now I'm an ocean communications manager
447
01:12:00,500 --> 01:12:01,833
for a consulting firm
448
01:12:01,875 --> 01:12:03,583
that has the ability to scale
449
01:12:03,583 --> 01:12:05,416
my impact by working with a number of
450
01:12:05,416 --> 01:12:06,500
different clients on
451
01:12:06,541 --> 01:12:08,000
having positive ocean impact.
452
01:12:08,333 --> 01:12:09,416
That is a big change
453
01:12:09,416 --> 01:12:10,500
throughout my career.
454
01:12:10,958 --> 01:12:12,666
And the career wasn't a straight line.
455
01:12:12,666 --> 01:12:13,583
It just wasn't from one
456
01:12:13,583 --> 01:12:14,625
opportunity to another to another.
457
01:12:14,625 --> 01:12:16,541
I had to create my own opportunities.
458
01:12:16,875 --> 01:12:18,666
But I did that by following what I loved,
459
01:12:18,666 --> 01:12:19,708
by realizing what I
460
01:12:19,708 --> 01:12:21,041
loved and getting out of my
461
01:12:21,041 --> 01:12:22,083
own way in terms of
462
01:12:22,083 --> 01:12:23,250
like, I need to do this.
463
01:12:23,250 --> 01:12:25,000
The only thing I was stubborn about is I
464
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:26,666
need to do something for the ocean.
465
01:12:26,958 --> 01:12:27,916
That is my mission.
466
01:12:28,375 --> 01:12:29,583
And then as I went through, there were
467
01:12:29,583 --> 01:12:31,541
certain likes and dislikes that I have.
468
01:12:31,666 --> 01:12:33,375
And communication won out.
469
01:12:33,791 --> 01:12:35,791
And here I am at the age of 47 with a
470
01:12:35,791 --> 01:12:37,083
full-time job working as
471
01:12:37,083 --> 01:12:38,000
an ocean communications
472
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:38,333
manager.
473
01:12:38,791 --> 01:12:41,291
The person who went from an internship to
474
01:12:41,291 --> 01:12:42,041
looking at sea
475
01:12:42,041 --> 01:12:43,625
turtles and public policy to
476
01:12:43,625 --> 01:12:44,208
going to a state
477
01:12:44,208 --> 01:12:45,708
department, then going international.
478
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,000
Now that person is in a place where
479
01:12:48,041 --> 01:12:49,458
they're working on major
480
01:12:49,458 --> 01:12:50,750
international agreements.
481
01:12:51,041 --> 01:12:52,916
And now that person's ended up working
482
01:12:52,916 --> 01:12:54,250
with TUNA and looking at
483
01:12:54,250 --> 01:12:55,666
agreements with TUNA and seafood.
484
01:12:56,083 --> 01:12:57,500
Everybody has their own path.
485
01:12:57,833 --> 01:12:59,500
One of the points of the story is don't
486
01:12:59,500 --> 01:13:01,541
just pigeonhole yourself into one area.
487
01:13:02,083 --> 01:13:03,541
Be open to the different areas that you
488
01:13:03,541 --> 01:13:04,541
may or may not fall in
489
01:13:04,541 --> 01:13:06,041
love with as you grow older,
490
01:13:06,166 --> 01:13:09,375
as you evolve as a marine biologist, as a
491
01:13:09,375 --> 01:13:11,125
researcher, as a
492
01:13:11,125 --> 01:13:13,000
conservationist, as a public
493
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:15,125
policy person, as a politician.
494
01:13:15,375 --> 01:13:17,125
You may end up in any of those categories
495
01:13:17,125 --> 01:13:17,916
depending on what you
496
01:13:17,916 --> 01:13:19,125
feel is important at
497
01:13:19,125 --> 01:13:19,541
that point.
498
01:13:19,541 --> 01:13:21,583
At one point in my career, I looked at
499
01:13:21,583 --> 01:13:22,458
what I was doing as
500
01:13:22,458 --> 01:13:23,291
working with government, as
501
01:13:23,291 --> 01:13:24,833
working with nonprofits, as working with
502
01:13:24,916 --> 01:13:26,000
environmental consulting.
503
01:13:26,208 --> 01:13:27,583
And I finally said to myself, like the
504
01:13:27,583 --> 01:13:28,750
one thing that is really
505
01:13:28,750 --> 01:13:30,958
missing to me in conservation is
506
01:13:30,958 --> 01:13:32,833
the fact that the public, the people who
507
01:13:32,833 --> 01:13:34,083
are outside that are not
508
01:13:34,083 --> 01:13:35,416
being talked to about the
509
01:13:35,458 --> 01:13:37,333
ocean on a regular basis are the biggest
510
01:13:37,333 --> 01:13:39,708
gap that exists in ocean conservation.
511
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,083
And so I decided to start some sort of
512
01:13:42,083 --> 01:13:43,666
communication, end up being a podcast
513
01:13:43,666 --> 01:13:45,041
after a couple of trials,
514
01:13:45,041 --> 01:13:47,625
as you know, that ends up being my path
515
01:13:47,708 --> 01:13:49,291
because that's what I feel is important.
516
01:13:49,625 --> 01:13:50,625
And there are a lot of other people who
517
01:13:50,625 --> 01:13:51,541
go different routes and
518
01:13:51,541 --> 01:13:52,541
that's great because we
519
01:13:52,541 --> 01:13:54,166
need the help in any way we can get.
520
01:13:54,541 --> 01:13:56,666
But the whole point is this career in
521
01:13:56,666 --> 01:13:57,958
this story, this person
522
01:13:57,958 --> 01:13:59,625
found it by looking at what
523
01:13:59,625 --> 01:14:00,916
was available to her
524
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:01,875
and then followed it.
525
01:14:02,250 --> 01:14:03,083
And we're going to be speaking to that
526
01:14:03,083 --> 01:14:04,083
person on Wednesday and
527
01:14:04,083 --> 01:14:05,291
we're going to be discussing some
528
01:14:05,291 --> 01:14:06,875
of the things that this person was a part
529
01:14:06,875 --> 01:14:08,291
of over the next couple of days.
530
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:09,375
And I think that's important.
531
01:14:09,375 --> 01:14:11,041
We're going to talk tomorrow about how
532
01:14:11,083 --> 01:14:12,416
corals is almost as old as
533
01:14:12,416 --> 01:14:13,958
pyramids and the fight to save
534
01:14:13,958 --> 01:14:15,666
them. That's going to be tomorrow's
535
01:14:15,666 --> 01:14:17,166
episode. On Wednesday's
536
01:14:17,166 --> 01:14:18,375
episode, we're going to be talking
537
01:14:18,375 --> 01:14:20,750
about the high seas treaty and how that
538
01:14:20,750 --> 01:14:22,291
gavel that dropped made
539
01:14:22,291 --> 01:14:25,125
people weep and become emotional in
540
01:14:25,125 --> 01:14:26,500
the room because of all the work that
541
01:14:26,500 --> 01:14:28,041
they did and how important
542
01:14:28,041 --> 01:14:30,000
policy is to the high seas.
543
01:14:30,250 --> 01:14:31,916
And then on Thursday, we're going to be
544
01:14:31,916 --> 01:14:34,250
talking about the seafood
545
01:14:34,250 --> 01:14:36,291
policy and how seafood and how
546
01:14:36,333 --> 01:14:40,125
consumer driven markets really show what
547
01:14:40,208 --> 01:14:42,583
retailers need to know about what the
548
01:14:42,583 --> 01:14:43,541
public wants in terms
549
01:14:43,541 --> 01:14:45,458
of their seafood being sustainable. And
550
01:14:45,458 --> 01:14:46,583
then on Friday, we have an
551
01:14:46,583 --> 01:14:47,958
interview with the person I
552
01:14:47,958 --> 01:14:49,000
talked about today. I'm not going to
553
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:50,958
reveal that person's name. I gave some
554
01:14:50,958 --> 01:14:51,916
clues as we went along,
555
01:14:52,166 --> 01:14:53,875
but we're going to be talking to that
556
01:14:53,875 --> 01:14:55,458
person on Friday about
557
01:14:55,458 --> 01:14:56,958
the policy and about Tuna.
558
01:14:57,166 --> 01:14:58,250
And it's going to be a lot of fun.
559
01:14:58,666 --> 01:15:01,125
So that's it for today's episode. I hope
560
01:15:01,125 --> 01:15:02,375
you enjoyed the story
561
01:15:02,416 --> 01:15:03,875
about careers. I mean,
562
01:15:03,916 --> 01:15:05,625
it fits people who ask me about careers
563
01:15:05,625 --> 01:15:06,500
all the time, but it also
564
01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:08,000
fits the people who want to
565
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:09,791
know what it's like to be in public
566
01:15:09,791 --> 01:15:11,416
policy and to have that kind of
567
01:15:11,458 --> 01:15:12,708
information. So I'd love to hear
568
01:15:12,708 --> 01:15:14,625
your thoughts on this podcast. And of
569
01:15:14,625 --> 01:15:15,750
course, I'd love to hear any
570
01:15:15,791 --> 01:15:16,541
kind of questions you have,
571
01:15:16,541 --> 01:15:17,833
any kind of subject materials that you
572
01:15:17,833 --> 01:15:19,416
want me to hear about. You
573
01:15:19,416 --> 01:15:20,791
can also check out Ocean Decoded
574
01:15:20,791 --> 01:15:22,708
Live where I go live every weekday,
575
01:15:22,708 --> 01:15:24,166
Monday to Thursday at 4pm
576
01:15:24,166 --> 01:15:25,708
Eastern between 4 and 6pm Eastern,
577
01:15:25,750 --> 01:15:27,416
depending on my day. We cover all the
578
01:15:27,416 --> 01:15:28,750
latest news that's happening
579
01:15:28,791 --> 01:15:30,250
in the ocean and some of the
580
01:15:30,250 --> 01:15:31,875
stuff that's on here as well, but you'll
581
01:15:31,875 --> 01:15:33,500
get a lot of new stuff and some visuals
582
01:15:33,500 --> 01:15:34,000
and stuff like that.
583
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:35,583
It's a lot of fun. But anyway, that's it
584
01:15:35,583 --> 01:15:36,666
for today's episode. I
585
01:15:36,666 --> 01:15:37,916
really appreciate you listening.
586
01:15:38,083 --> 01:15:40,000
If you haven't done so yet, follow this
587
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:41,291
podcast so you don't miss
588
01:15:41,291 --> 01:15:43,000
any of the rest of the week's
589
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:44,666
episodes. And of course, five days a
590
01:15:44,666 --> 01:15:45,916
week, Monday to Friday, that's when we
591
01:15:45,916 --> 01:15:47,375
post. And I want to thank
592
01:15:47,375 --> 01:15:49,000
you so much for joining me on today's
593
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:50,416
episode of the How to Protect the Ocean
594
01:15:50,416 --> 01:15:51,416
podcast. Have a great
595
01:15:51,416 --> 01:15:52,000
day. We'll talk to you next
596
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:53,583
time and happy conservation.
