Inside Shark Biology and Conservation, Second Edition

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On the podcast today, everybody,

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we have a new book that we're going to be
highlighting.

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And we have three out of the four authors
of that book here to talk about

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why they would do another shark book.

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It's called Shark Biology and Conservation
Essentials for Educators,

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Students, and Enthusiasts. It's a second
edition.

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It's by Dan Abel, Dean Grubbs,

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Tristan Gudridge, and Josh Moyer.

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Some fabulous guests that have been on the
pod all have been on the podcast before,

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and we're gonna get them back on.

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unfortunately Dean couldn't make it ~
because of internet issues,

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but ~ we we we love having him on.

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~ we'll get him on again ~ quite quite
soon.

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But everybody else was on and they talk
all about this book and why

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you should get this book.

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We're

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gonna talk about that on this episode of
the Beyond Jaws Podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back to another
exciting episode of the Beyond Jaws
Podcast.

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I am your co-host, Andrew Lewin here with
my co host,

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Dr. David Ebert. Dave, are you ready to
talk about another book?

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Not

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One that you wrote this time, but the one

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Yeah. No.

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that Dan, Dean, Tristan, and Josh wrote.

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Yeah, no, very excited. I mean,

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we're glad you know, we when people have
books come out,

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you know, even mine, but other people's
books come out.

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Yeah.

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it's great having them come on and and you
know,

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helps

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helps promote their book and you know,

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we're all about trying to help promote
shark,

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shark conservation, research, education,

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and just enthusiast. And so the

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Absolutely.

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so the book actually was perfect,

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~ perfect timing. And it was great to get
all the guys on there.

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We had Dean, as you mentioned,

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on there, but unfortunately his internet
wasn't cooperating today.

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It wasn't the best. Yeah, unfortunately.

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~

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But we had we had the other guys on and
they've all been on before

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and they're always great and it's always
entertaining to have on

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and especially have on together and
promoting their book.

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And so I hope everyone enjoys it and
everyone goes out and gets their book too.

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It's a great it is it it is a good book.

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Absolutely. Yeah,

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it looks fantastic. ~ I'm looking forward
to getting my copy.

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~ but we're gonna get into it right now
with Dan,

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Tristan, and Josh on the book Shark
Biology and Conservation.

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Enjoy the interview and we'll talk to you
after.

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Hey Dan, hey Tristan, hey Josh,

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welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about shark biology
and conservation?

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Absolutely.

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Always ready.

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Yeah.

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Always ready.

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All

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right.

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Well, welcome to the Beyond Jaws Podcast.

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We have a special bonus episode featuring
a new book by four authors

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who have all been on the program before.

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We do have a footnote, Dean Grubbs was
here,

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but he somehow he fell off, but we'll

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Lost connection.

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we'll carry on with his co-authors here.

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The new book's titled The Shark Shark
Biology and Conservation by Dan Abel,

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Dean Grubbs, Tristan Guttridge,

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and Josh Moyer. And the book was also
illustrated by Elise Pullen and Mark
Dando.

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Mark, of course, has done been on the
podcast before.

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He's done illustrates many of the books
I've done before,

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~ Sharks of the World and some of those
books.

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And ~ just to show everybody here the book
here.

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And I have to say, this is probably one of
the best damn books I've seen.

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Next to a certain book on

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yeah.

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the except next to a certain book on the
sharks of the world.

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This is like the best damn book I've ever
seen.

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So

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Yeah.

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~ I really well we're gonna get into it
here today.

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But just to refresh everybody,

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Dan is a retired professor.

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From Coastal Carolina University,

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who just informed us he just had his last
graduate student finished.

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So he's in a very happy mood tonight.

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And Dean, of course, is a f is a research
faculty and associate director

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of research at Florida State University.

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And he's recently off his latest Shark
Week episode this year.

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And Tristan, of course, he's a regular,

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he's also off his ~ fresh off of Shark
Week this year.

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And he's also the vice president and chief
scientist for Saving the Blue,

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a company he co-founded with his wife.

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And Josh is a lecturer at the Department
of Vertebrate Zoology

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at Yale University who specializes in
orgasmic or orgasm biology,

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something like that. ~ I just wanted just
in case Josh's sister's listening

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Ha ha

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to the show, just wanted to clarify

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for my last my last last introduction for
Josh.

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Anyway, welcome guys and

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Welcome to the show. Yeah.

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That's a great way to start. Great way to
start.

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Mm-hmm.

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Who knows where it's gonna go from here,

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but ~ so

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So Dan, Dan,

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why don't you tell us a little bit about
the book,

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the overview of the book, since you're the
first author on this but we want to hear

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Okay. Well

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from you first.

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yeah, first I wanna thank Dave for those
very kind words.

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As I look at my bookshelf, if I were to do
a word cloud of books on of titles

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on my bookshelf, Ebert would be the w like
big letters all over the place.

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~ I also want to correct a quick
injustice.

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Last time I was on the show, Dave reminded
me that it was about forty years

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ago that we crossed paths in a bar in
Avalon,

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~

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Right.

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Catalina Island. and I wanna tell him that
if we should cross paths again,

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this time I'm buying.

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Okay, so.

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there we

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go. Okay.

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And

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just just for every we're Dan and I were
graduate students at the time.

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And ~ yeah, it was a it was a it was an
intri it was a little while ago.

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A little bit ago. A couple of years ago.

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Yeah. I looked about

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Anyway.

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Yeah.

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the same. He looked a lot younger,

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I think.

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Yeah. So okay, so

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yeah. ~

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old old old folks jokes. ~ so yeah,

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the the second edition, ~ logically
followed the first edition.

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Five years is about the the period after
which first edition becomes

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a little bit dated. And and the first
edition was written 'cause Dean and

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I had been teaching at the Bimini
Biological Field Station,

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~ a course in shark biology. That's where
we met Tristan first time.

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for you know, for years and we realized
there were great books out there

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but none suited our needs. And so we put
our heads together and finally wrote this

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one. And the the the big addition to the
second one ~ is the new voices that we've

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added because Dean and I I don't know
about Dean,

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but I think I've written about everything
that's in my head about sharks.

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And

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Mm-hmm.

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we needed different perspectives,

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we needed fresh voices, ~ and we needed
people to up update and

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And do some of the chapters that we felt
weren't,

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you know, w within our expertise.

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And so Tristan and Josh, fortunately they
were there,

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they were out of jail for had to do a
hundred hours of community service

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and so we engaged them.

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Why not?

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Ha

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ha.

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Just kidding. at any rate, ~ you know,

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and then we we had some ~ focuses on
research conservation and education where

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we brought in people from across the globe
to write ~ thousand word l mini essays

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on some aspect of education, physiology,

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evolution, anatomy conservation,

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and and that strengthened the book
immensely.

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And so like when when you you and you and
Dean brought on ~ Tristan and Josh,

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like I guess let's go to Tristan first,

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like so what did you think when you were
invited to join in on this endeavor?

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Well,

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~ obviously I'd met Dan and Dean.

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Gosh, it would have been must have been in
2005 or six,

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something like that. So 20 odd years ago.

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And at that point, there my professors,

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you know, Dean in particular, you go out
in the field with him,

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and he's like this shark wizard.

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~ and so I'm just completely in awe of
him.

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and then to be invited to be part of the
book,

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and obviously I spent my PhD years in
Vimini working on social behavior,

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so the behavioural stuff was was something
that I've I've done as part of

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PhD. So I was obviously thrilled to be
involved and and happy

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to to try and contribute as best I could.

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So yeah, like it it kind of all started at
the Bimini Shark Lab and I

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was part of those courses and being in
those lectures and I I'll agree with them

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that there never really was a book that
was accessible for not just

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the the student that's in those classes
but also for someone that's just

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generally super enthusiastic about sharks.

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You know, a lot of the books that I read
were,

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you know, had a lot of papers in them and
were quite hard to understand.

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partics particularly topics like you know
taxonomy and things like that.

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And I think it this is a lot more
accessible.

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So I was pretty excited about being able
to contribute for for that reason as well.

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Yeah. Yeah. J Josh, what was how about
what'd you ~ after

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you recovered from fainting when you were
invited to do the book,

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how did how did it go for you?

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What did you

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It went really well. I mean it it was I
guess it was a great experience
principally

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because my co authors, yeah,

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I I would say to them, I'd I think that
I'd like to write about this

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or I'd you know, I'd like to include
example X,

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Y, or Z. I don't think I've I ever heard
anything

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but a supportive sure, go for it.

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~

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Mm.

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which of course, credit to you,

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Dan. You you

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You were very supportive. ~ and you sort
of ran interference with

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the publisher because it ~ as I've
learned,

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it would be the publisher to say,

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No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You want to
spend how many words going down what
rabbit

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hole? ~ so you were able to run
interference and as a result,

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it was a great experience for me 'cause I
could just write to my heart's content.

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~ as an organism biologist,

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Dave.

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That too.

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Yes. It it was cool it was quite nice ~ to
just think about all the aspects

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of shark biology that interest me and and
go into answering the question,

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How do sharks work? and say,

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Well, let's explore that in whatever level
of detail w we want to get into.

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So it was a it was really a fun
experience.

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Did and I ~ and Josh sa s and as you
tristan as well,

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since this was kind of your fur was this
your first Tristan,

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your first book experience as well?

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~

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~

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no, I'd I've I've written a few chapters
but ~ but nothing quite

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as yeah, as as kind of similar to what
Josh says as I was given kind

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of free scope to to go with the chapter
how I saw fit,

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which was nice because my

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My PhD was on social behavior,

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group living in sharks, and then I I did
some work in cognition as well,

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and I was able to kind of put quite a
focus on those two topics within

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the the behavioural theme, ~ which was
which was really nice.

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I was getting I realized getting out as I
know my first book I would

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did with Leonard Campano, and much like
you know,

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Dan was a senior guy in this project and
Dean,

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having done books before, it really helped
me huge to have somebody

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who actually had been down the path of
having done a book before because I you
know,

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probably Dan can comment on this.

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Like when you first do a book,

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like you think the the publisher's like,

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00:10:43,843 --> 00:10:45,624
this is on sharks, this is gonna be a
great book.

242
00:10:45,624 --> 00:10:48,746
They'll just lap it up, but it's never
that quite that easy,

243
00:10:48,746 --> 00:10:50,057
is it, Dan? When you're trying to

244
00:10:50,830 --> 00:10:51,830
No,

245
00:10:51,130 --> 00:10:56,375
it it it it definitely isn't, and there's
so many questions you have about

246
00:10:56,595 --> 00:11:01,098
how to please the publisher, how to write
the book within your own vision,

247
00:11:01,098 --> 00:11:06,022
to to find the audience. I mean it it
becomes really complicated and

248
00:11:06,363 --> 00:11:09,195
and and you know, tribute to all my co
authors.

249
00:11:09,195 --> 00:11:15,421
~ you know, I can't imagine ~ any co
authors that made it more easy

250
00:11:15,421 --> 00:11:18,263
and had and were more ex had more
expertise

251
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,642
than these two people and of course Dean,

252
00:11:20,642 --> 00:11:23,056
who can't can't be with us, but you know,

253
00:11:23,056 --> 00:11:26,562
Dean I I you know, if I made a stupid
mistake writing,

254
00:11:26,562 --> 00:11:30,549
I felt very confident it would be caught
by one of those three co authors.

255
00:11:30,549 --> 00:11:33,173
And that that safety net is a big deal as
well.

256
00:11:32,981 --> 00:11:33,981
Yeah.

257
00:11:33,783 --> 00:11:38,042
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it and s even things
like you'd done a few books with Johns

258
00:11:38,042 --> 00:11:40,367
Hopkins, so I assume it was a little
smoother for you,

259
00:11:40,367 --> 00:11:43,764
Dan, when you s when you approached him
about doing or did they approach

260
00:11:43,764 --> 00:11:44,937
you about doing the second edition?

261
00:11:45,518 --> 00:11:48,789
Well, I bugged him about the second
edition after two years because I

262
00:11:48,789 --> 00:11:52,070
was ready to correct some of the stupid
mistakes that we had made.

263
00:11:52,070 --> 00:11:55,352
~ and and and kept doing it and then they
you know,

264
00:11:55,352 --> 00:11:57,102
and it's maybe your experience,

265
00:11:57,102 --> 00:12:00,074
maybe less so with Princeton than with
Johns Hopkins,

266
00:12:00,074 --> 00:12:04,075
but they had a big turnover of editors
that we w wrote with and it

267
00:12:04,075 --> 00:12:06,726
was almost every time you emailed them it
was somebody new.

268
00:12:06,726 --> 00:12:10,668
~ and then finally after about four years
after the first edition,

269
00:12:10,668 --> 00:12:13,689
they contacted me and said it's time and I
told them what,

270
00:12:13,689 --> 00:12:14,689
you know, Dean and I

271
00:12:14,849 --> 00:12:17,010
chatted about what our vision was for the
second edition,

272
00:12:17,010 --> 00:12:19,921
slightly expanded, rev you know,

273
00:12:19,921 --> 00:12:23,433
doing a complete revision of a lot of the
parts that were dated.

274
00:12:23,433 --> 00:12:29,115
and the good thing about it was that when
we

275
00:12:29,115 --> 00:12:32,446
got releases for all of the figures and
illustrations,

276
00:12:32,446 --> 00:12:35,658
the expert the ~ the photographs from you
know,

277
00:12:35,658 --> 00:12:40,360
from professional photographers and the
good ~ beautiful watercolors

278
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,031
and other artwork, ~ we didn't have to pay

279
00:12:43,339 --> 00:12:45,320
royalties for the second edition for
those.

280
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,993
I feel bad because these people earned
them.

281
00:12:47,993 --> 00:12:49,154
~ but you

282
00:12:48,630 --> 00:12:49,630
Mm-hmm.

283
00:12:49,474 --> 00:12:53,057
you probably test that authors and these
two guys will learn pretty soon when they

284
00:12:53,057 --> 00:12:54,838
get their first royalty statement.

285
00:12:54,838 --> 00:12:57,069
We're not making much either for for you
know,

286
00:12:57,069 --> 00:12:58,111
for the effort we put in.

287
00:12:59,637 --> 00:13:03,474
Dan, didn't you say that your cut of the
royalties on the first edition

288
00:13:03,474 --> 00:13:05,978
was just enough to buy you a nice coffee
maker?

289
00:13:05,978 --> 00:13:07,561
Like a name brand coffee maker,

290
00:13:07,561 --> 00:13:08,561
like Mr. Coffee.

291
00:13:08,371 --> 00:13:09,371
well

292
00:13:08,682 --> 00:13:12,012
okay, okay. six thousand dollar espresso
machine.

293
00:13:12,012 --> 00:13:14,659
No no not not really. No

294
00:13:14,330 --> 00:13:15,330
You got that much?

295
00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:19,625
Tristan's sitting there going like there's
royalties?

296
00:13:20,831 --> 00:13:21,831
Yeah.

297
00:13:21,195 --> 00:13:27,166
Yeah, well I I was just gonna say you you
do these projects 'cause it's your

298
00:13:27,166 --> 00:13:28,166
passion, don't you?

299
00:13:28,139 --> 00:13:29,139
You know, we

300
00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:29,279
Yeah.

301
00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:32,580
all do it and and at the same time I think
it's good for you as a as a

302
00:13:32,580 --> 00:13:38,335
s a scientist trying to to strive for new
ideas and technologies and things

303
00:13:38,335 --> 00:13:39,765
to have to read the literature.

304
00:13:39,765 --> 00:13:45,719
~ and and writing a book chapter on shark
behavior for me made me read around

305
00:13:45,719 --> 00:13:48,810
the subject a lot more than perhaps I
might do sometimes.

306
00:13:48,810 --> 00:13:52,572
So I th I th and and it then gives you
ideas for other research projects

307
00:13:52,572 --> 00:13:55,594
you might have. So I I think it's ~ it's
good in that way too.

308
00:13:57,826 --> 00:13:59,386
D did you guys find let me ask you this?

309
00:13:59,386 --> 00:14:00,837
I know when I do books and stuff,

310
00:14:00,837 --> 00:14:05,988
I find a a certain them to be kind of
liberating compared to like writing

311
00:14:05,988 --> 00:14:10,369
a peer reviewed paper. Cause you have more
even though the book will

312
00:14:10,369 --> 00:14:14,640
get reviewed by someone, you have more a
little more latitude if you want

313
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,941
to get into something you know about,

314
00:14:16,941 --> 00:14:21,302
you've experienced, but it's not like a
real quantitative or observational.

315
00:14:21,302 --> 00:14:26,453
You can put like sort of anecdotal stuff
in there that that is kind of interesting.

316
00:14:26,453 --> 00:14:27,453
Do you do you find that?

317
00:14:27,821 --> 00:14:28,821
Did

318
00:14:27,922 --> 00:14:29,160
you find that? Yourself?

319
00:14:29,047 --> 00:14:30,047
I mean,

320
00:14:29,247 --> 00:14:33,911
I think the the conserv the conversational
style that that Dan kind of

321
00:14:33,911 --> 00:14:37,173
led with made it easier to to write for
sure.

322
00:14:37,173 --> 00:14:38,871
I mean, I have to hold my hands up.

323
00:14:38,871 --> 00:14:41,698
You know, I didn't write anywhere near as
many chapters as Dan and Dean did.

324
00:14:41,698 --> 00:14:44,310
They did the the main chapters on this.

325
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:48,754
I I obviously wrote the shark behaviour
chapter and then ~ I contributed

326
00:14:48,754 --> 00:14:51,647
to the sensory biology chapter on this
second edition,

327
00:14:51,647 --> 00:14:55,890
~ which was fun to do. ~ but yeah,

328
00:14:55,890 --> 00:14:56,890
I mean it's

329
00:14:58,561 --> 00:15:01,412
These books are they're they're a huge
undertaking.

330
00:15:01,412 --> 00:15:02,443
Like, you know, the

331
00:15:02,038 --> 00:15:03,038
Yeah.

332
00:15:02,443 --> 00:15:05,744
number of emails that came back and forth
and and I wasn't even

333
00:15:05,744 --> 00:15:07,295
the one conversing with the editor,

334
00:15:07,295 --> 00:15:10,856
like that Dan, it it made me realize like
I there was a point where I

335
00:15:10,856 --> 00:15:13,067
was thinking a few years ago that I would
write a book,

336
00:15:13,067 --> 00:15:16,229
a shark behavior book. And I'd spoken to a
colleague,

337
00:15:16,229 --> 00:15:18,760
a friend about doing it, and I was all
excited,

338
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,332
and and then I was started to be involved
in this book and seeing everything,

339
00:15:22,332 --> 00:15:24,553
I'm like, I don't know whether I'm quite
ready yet.

340
00:15:26,902 --> 00:15:27,902
Yeah.

341
00:15:27,381 --> 00:15:30,823
But but I I agree with what both David and
and Tristan said.

342
00:15:30,823 --> 00:15:34,396
You learn a whole lot when you're writing
a book because it just gives

343
00:15:34,396 --> 00:15:39,129
you license to to spend time. You you feel
this obligation to see what's out there.

344
00:15:39,129 --> 00:15:43,903
~ and also the the tone of writing is very
different.

345
00:15:43,903 --> 00:15:48,001
You you know, I always wondered in
textbooks there's n you know,

346
00:15:48,001 --> 00:15:52,949
in big like intro textbooks is rarely
citations and they're

347
00:15:52,364 --> 00:15:53,364
Mm-hmm.

348
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:55,521
all relying on primary literature as well.

349
00:15:55,521 --> 00:15:56,521
So

350
00:15:56,066 --> 00:15:59,588
That's a a gray area. You can write
something and you want to attribute

351
00:15:59,588 --> 00:16:02,250
it to whoever you got it. But if you you
know,

352
00:16:02,250 --> 00:16:05,072
if you did that it would make it more
turgid and hard to read.

353
00:16:05,072 --> 00:16:10,815
So, you know, it's that fine balance
between how do you cite legitimate sources

354
00:16:10,815 --> 00:16:13,707
and how do you assume something is more
common knowledge.

355
00:16:14,229 --> 00:16:18,161
Yeah. Yeah. No well you I often you like I
I'm sure yeah and here too

356
00:16:18,161 --> 00:16:21,273
you have that you have you put in some
like there's some general references

357
00:16:21,273 --> 00:16:26,336
you generally tend to use that are kind of
a more broader view versus every single

358
00:16:26,496 --> 00:16:30,758
paper on a particular topic. As you say it
we get it you just get bogged down

359
00:16:30,758 --> 00:16:34,840
and I think the average person you'll find
some people I mean I you

360
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,882
I'm sure with your book students taking
this or just kind of getting introduced

361
00:16:38,882 --> 00:16:43,205
to sharks don't want to get bogged down
all the literature 'cause they're they're

362
00:16:43,465 --> 00:16:44,465
you know

363
00:16:43,789 --> 00:16:44,789
Yep.

364
00:16:44,229 --> 00:16:47,921
And that's that you know, that's the one
comment that we get when we

365
00:16:47,921 --> 00:16:51,044
use the course the use of book in a shark
biology course.

366
00:16:51,044 --> 00:16:52,815
It's like the untext book. They say,

367
00:16:52,815 --> 00:16:55,517
Well, I've never read a textbook in a
course before.

368
00:16:55,517 --> 00:16:59,720
I'm reading this one. And I mean that's
that's not hyperbole to say that some

369
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,202
of them get through college and have never
read the textbook.

370
00:17:02,202 --> 00:17:03,266
But generally the

371
00:17:02,910 --> 00:17:03,910
Right.

372
00:17:03,266 --> 00:17:06,846
students who take shark biology courses
start out with that passion.

373
00:17:06,846 --> 00:17:09,728
And so you can at least entice them to
open the book.

374
00:17:09,728 --> 00:17:11,489
~ one of the things

375
00:17:11,799 --> 00:17:12,799
Dean

376
00:17:11,969 --> 00:17:16,630
and I tried to do is put some humor into
the first edition and I we put

377
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:21,052
a lot more in and it was our our our copy
editor took it out.

378
00:17:21,052 --> 00:17:23,423
She said, you know, this is this is you
know,

379
00:17:23,423 --> 00:17:25,113
this isn't you're not a comedian,

380
00:17:25,113 --> 00:17:26,454
you know, you're a shark biologist.

381
00:17:26,454 --> 00:17:28,394
~ I did recently

382
00:17:28,021 --> 00:17:29,021
Mm.

383
00:17:28,394 --> 00:17:33,446
had a a manuscript for another book r ~
was reviewed and ~ the reviewer said

384
00:17:33,446 --> 00:17:36,537
my writing was silly which I took as a
compliment.

385
00:17:35,392 --> 00:17:36,392
Ha ha ha.

386
00:17:35,863 --> 00:17:36,863
Yeah.

387
00:17:36,537 --> 00:17:37,537
I

388
00:17:36,757 --> 00:17:37,757
thought thank you.

389
00:17:38,687 --> 00:17:39,687
Ha ha

390
00:17:39,339 --> 00:17:40,339
Yeah.

391
00:17:40,249 --> 00:17:43,131
I've I've had that where I put in f a few
things I thought were kind

392
00:17:43,131 --> 00:17:45,892
of funny here or there and in books some
of the books I've done and

393
00:17:46,232 --> 00:17:48,723
the editors are like, No, that we're
taking those out.

394
00:17:48,426 --> 00:17:49,426
Like that.

395
00:17:48,723 --> 00:17:49,723
You're

396
00:17:49,053 --> 00:17:53,235
you're you're not a comedian. We're we're
just we wanna keep it more I don't know,

397
00:17:53,235 --> 00:17:58,017
kind of ~ formal, I guess, even though
it's not really a formal formal stuff.

398
00:17:58,017 --> 00:17:59,017
Yeah.

399
00:17:58,318 --> 00:17:59,318
Well well you the one

400
00:17:59,118 --> 00:18:03,001
I wasn't gonna take out was for Osmo
Regulation.

401
00:18:03,001 --> 00:18:06,093
Sharks use urea based osmoregulation.

402
00:18:06,093 --> 00:18:09,184
So I was very bold thinking this is
hysterical.

403
00:18:09,184 --> 00:18:12,566
One of the headings was How do you solve a
problem like urea?

404
00:18:12,566 --> 00:18:18,110
Now, yeah, you have to be a student of
older movies like The Sound of Music.

405
00:18:17,066 --> 00:18:18,735
Yeah.

406
00:18:18,110 --> 00:18:19,551
And so when I would do

407
00:18:19,551 --> 00:18:21,712
the the song How Do You Sol I'm not gonna
sing.

408
00:18:22,270 --> 00:18:23,533
Yeah, you can. Hey,

409
00:18:23,533 --> 00:18:26,158
that's fine. I don't think we'll get hit
with copyright,

410
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:24,669
you can go ahead.

411
00:18:25,675 --> 00:18:29,548
No. You don't get it with copyright but
you'll lose you'll lose viewers.

412
00:18:26,158 --> 00:18:28,640
I promise. No.

413
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:35,012
But I you know, I the students I I you
know,

414
00:18:35,012 --> 00:18:37,704
title this in a presentation and I get
these blank stares.

415
00:18:37,704 --> 00:18:40,166
They have no clue what what that meant.

416
00:18:39,764 --> 00:18:40,764
That's so funny.

417
00:18:40,166 --> 00:18:41,166
Yeah.

418
00:18:40,619 --> 00:18:41,619
Yeah. ~

419
00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:45,643
yeah. Well I had a I had a recent one
where I just I just had I had half

420
00:18:45,643 --> 00:18:49,887
my co actually three quarters of my
co-authors I and the paper I gave

421
00:18:49,887 --> 00:18:56,002
on guitar fish, I made a reference to ~
Van Halen and my authors

422
00:18:55,489 --> 00:18:56,489
Okay.

423
00:18:56,002 --> 00:18:57,824
are my co-authors are looking at me like

424
00:18:58,204 --> 00:19:00,986
who who's Van Halen? And I'm like,

425
00:18:59,787 --> 00:19:00,787
Yeah.

426
00:19:00,986 --> 00:19:03,659
You guys have never heard of Eddie Van
Halen or No,

427
00:19:03,659 --> 00:19:05,330
not a clue. Never heard of it.

428
00:19:04,908 --> 00:19:06,300
that's awesome.

429
00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:06,491
So so

430
00:19:06,491 --> 00:19:08,423
Dan, I told so if you're going back to
Sound and Music,

431
00:19:08,423 --> 00:19:09,423
Dan

432
00:19:09,267 --> 00:19:10,267
I

433
00:19:09,277 --> 00:19:10,277
Right.

434
00:19:09,397 --> 00:19:10,397
can relate

435
00:19:10,057 --> 00:19:12,959
I can relate with you 'cause I saw it when
I was probably about eight years

436
00:19:12,959 --> 00:19:17,589
old ~ when it came out. But none of these
other kids have any frickin' idea what

437
00:19:17,589 --> 00:19:19,572
we're talking about. So speaking of kids,

438
00:19:19,572 --> 00:19:23,024
Josh, so how is your ~ your experience?

439
00:19:23,024 --> 00:19:25,845
Is this something you're gonna use with
your your classes that you're teaching?

440
00:19:26,684 --> 00:19:32,428
yeah, absolutely. In fact, ~ my sort of
connection to this project,

441
00:19:32,428 --> 00:19:37,301
to the second edition, stems from ~ a
shark biology course that

442
00:19:37,301 --> 00:19:39,223
I developed and teach at Yale,

443
00:19:39,223 --> 00:19:43,906
because I adopted the first edition as the
textbook for that course.

444
00:19:43,906 --> 00:19:48,749
And it just so happened to be the first
time that I taught that course at Yale.

445
00:19:48,749 --> 00:19:52,222
I had taught taught shark biology a
handful of other places,

446
00:19:52,222 --> 00:19:55,194
but it was the first time I taught it at
Yale with that group of students.

447
00:19:56,555 --> 00:20:01,678
And ~ so I reached out to Dean at the end
of the semester and I said,

448
00:20:01,678 --> 00:20:06,730
Hey, this was a really a fun book to to
supplement the course material with.

449
00:20:06,730 --> 00:20:11,353
It w it was great to point people in the
direction of certain chapters

450
00:20:11,353 --> 00:20:18,186
or figures or what have you. ~ if you ever
happen to do another edition,

451
00:20:18,186 --> 00:20:24,790
here are some of the topics that my
students and I talked about in

452
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:31,263
R Shark biology course that didn't ~ find
their way into into the first edition.

453
00:20:31,263 --> 00:20:32,934
So if you ever do a second edition,

454
00:20:32,934 --> 00:20:36,536
here's what here are some things that I
would love to see in it.

455
00:20:36,536 --> 00:20:41,118
And Dean, of course, being very
understated and gracious as he always is,

456
00:20:41,118 --> 00:20:43,720
just said, All right, thanks, Josh.

457
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,481
Appreciate that. Glad you liked it.

458
00:20:45,481 --> 00:20:47,702
And then a couple weeks went by.

459
00:20:47,702 --> 00:20:49,963
He put me in contact with Dan,

460
00:20:49,963 --> 00:20:54,826
and the upshot is that rather than saying

461
00:20:55,124 --> 00:20:59,236
Here, walk us through all the changes that
you'd like to see made

462
00:20:59,298 --> 00:21:01,549
in the second edition. Dan and Dean just
said,

463
00:21:01,549 --> 00:21:04,962
Well, listen, if you have all these
changes you want to see made,

464
00:21:04,962 --> 00:21:07,064
you make them. You you

465
00:21:06,292 --> 00:21:07,292
Yeah.

466
00:21:07,725 --> 00:21:09,794
go ahead, rewrite it, make it the way.

467
00:21:09,794 --> 00:21:12,658
And I said, well, geez, this sounds like a
great opportunity.

468
00:21:12,658 --> 00:21:13,658
Sure. So

469
00:21:12,789 --> 00:21:13,789
Yeah.

470
00:21:13,549 --> 00:21:16,171
that was my way into the project.

471
00:21:16,171 --> 00:21:20,135
And ~ so I'm really excited we have the
shark biology course coming up

472
00:21:20,135 --> 00:21:22,787
~ actually in in just a couple weeks.

473
00:21:22,787 --> 00:21:23,938
It starts in a couple weeks.

474
00:21:24,140 --> 00:21:25,140
Nice.

475
00:21:24,796 --> 00:21:30,608
So I'm very excited to use this new
edition as the textbook because

476
00:21:29,773 --> 00:21:30,773
Yeah.

477
00:21:30,888 --> 00:21:34,480
it really goes point for point,

478
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,901
page for page. It it meshes very nicely
with the content of the course.

479
00:21:38,901 --> 00:21:44,613
So I'm excited ~ to to know that there
will be at least thirty more sales

480
00:21:44,613 --> 00:21:45,860
of the book. ~

481
00:21:45,374 --> 00:21:46,374
Ha ha ha

482
00:21:45,755 --> 00:21:46,755
Ha

483
00:21:45,950 --> 00:21:47,408
~

484
00:21:46,048 --> 00:21:47,048
ha ha.

485
00:21:47,063 --> 00:21:48,063
Well, we

486
00:21:47,127 --> 00:21:48,127
Could say

487
00:21:47,483 --> 00:21:48,483
tried to push

488
00:21:47,693 --> 00:21:48,693
that.

489
00:21:48,195 --> 00:21:49,195
it on Shark

490
00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:49,319
Ha ha.

491
00:21:48,835 --> 00:21:51,589
Week. I tried to push it, so hopefully we
got a sales.

492
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,240
There you go.

493
00:21:50,913 --> 00:21:53,962
Did you did you did y you did did you get

494
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,125
Yes, thank you, Tristan. Well done.

495
00:21:51,589 --> 00:21:53,962
Yeah.

496
00:21:53,293 --> 00:21:54,293
But

497
00:21:53,982 --> 00:21:55,366
did you get it out there on Shark Week?

498
00:21:55,366 --> 00:21:56,366
I didn't catch the episode.

499
00:21:56,549 --> 00:22:01,034
well I on all the all the social media I
was blasting it trying to tryna

500
00:22:00,867 --> 00:22:02,551
you didn't bring it on the boat for your
episode.

501
00:22:01,034 --> 00:22:05,599
get people it Well at that point it hadn't
it it only came out,

502
00:22:02,551 --> 00:22:06,218
Hadn't come out. Yeah.

503
00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:06,599
yeah. So

504
00:22:06,409 --> 00:22:07,551
~ unfortunately.

505
00:22:06,612 --> 00:22:07,612
Okay.

506
00:22:07,551 --> 00:22:10,344
Next time I'll be I'll be clutching it
when I'm out on the boat.

507
00:22:09,866 --> 00:22:10,866
Ha ha ha

508
00:22:10,463 --> 00:22:11,463
ha.

509
00:22:11,230 --> 00:22:12,373
You'll look out and you'll say,

510
00:22:12,373 --> 00:22:14,027
All right, look at that shark.

511
00:22:14,027 --> 00:22:16,474
Now let me see. Turn to page two twenty
five.

512
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:16,570
Let me see, yeah, exactly.

513
00:22:15,147 --> 00:22:17,418
I I I I

514
00:22:15,337 --> 00:22:16,337
Yeah.

515
00:22:15,578 --> 00:22:17,724
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

516
00:22:16,474 --> 00:22:17,474
That's the

517
00:22:17,418 --> 00:22:20,890
got I got lucky when I did the f show with
Forrest Galani a few years ago.

518
00:22:20,890 --> 00:22:22,921
He actually brought brought the brought
the book with him.

519
00:22:22,921 --> 00:22:26,302
He's done it a few times and actually
brought it on the during the show when
they're

520
00:22:26,302 --> 00:22:27,953
filming. So it's I've always been very

521
00:22:27,361 --> 00:22:28,361
that's cool.

522
00:22:27,953 --> 00:22:29,964
appreciative of Forrest for that.

523
00:22:29,964 --> 00:22:32,575
~ so yeah.

524
00:22:31,450 --> 00:22:32,601
Josh, let me ask you, let me ask

525
00:22:32,601 --> 00:22:35,483
you this. you know, you talk about using
the the course and now it's

526
00:22:35,483 --> 00:22:38,786
fit well for the book. Like for the second
edition is now going to fit well with

527
00:22:38,786 --> 00:22:42,458
the course material. For those ~
professors,

528
00:22:42,458 --> 00:22:44,620
lecturers who have their own class,

529
00:22:44,620 --> 00:22:49,584
how would you recommend they use this book
for their shark course?

530
00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:52,800
Well, that's a great question.

531
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,305
I would say anybody who's designing a
course on shark biology,

532
00:22:57,305 --> 00:23:00,047
first you wanna focus on who your audience
is.

533
00:23:00,047 --> 00:23:05,552
I mean, there is a difference between an
introductory non-biomajor course

534
00:23:05,552 --> 00:23:10,926
for just anybody who's really interested
in sharks versus say

535
00:23:10,926 --> 00:23:12,578
a graduate level seminar

536
00:23:12,075 --> 00:23:13,075
Right.

537
00:23:12,578 --> 00:23:19,513
on shark biology, right? ~ so I would say
if you fall into the the

538
00:23:20,380 --> 00:23:25,662
former category and you're teaching a
non-majors or an introductory level shark

539
00:23:25,662 --> 00:23:30,674
biology course, you can look at the topics
that that we put in this book

540
00:23:30,674 --> 00:23:34,856
and sort of use that as your skeleton to
organize your course.

541
00:23:34,538 --> 00:23:35,538
Right.

542
00:23:34,856 --> 00:23:39,648
And and believe me, I don't think I mean
Dean isn't here,

543
00:23:39,648 --> 00:23:41,158
but I feel comfortable saying this.

544
00:23:41,158 --> 00:23:44,240
We won't take it personally if you say,

545
00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:43,870
Yeah.

546
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:49,082
well geez, I'm I've maybe we gloss over
that topic or that whatever.

547
00:23:48,382 --> 00:23:49,382
Yeah.

548
00:23:49,270 --> 00:23:50,270
~

549
00:23:50,046 --> 00:23:54,399
But you can use basically the table of
contents sort of as a as an

550
00:23:53,984 --> 00:23:54,984
Mm-hmm.

551
00:23:54,399 --> 00:23:57,791
organizational outline if if you're
teaching an introductory course.

552
00:23:57,791 --> 00:24:00,953
If you're teaching a graduate seminar,

553
00:24:00,953 --> 00:24:02,654
for example, on shark biology,

554
00:24:02,654 --> 00:24:05,716
the focus may not necessarily be

555
00:24:06,357 --> 00:24:10,939
on the actual facts and figures,

556
00:24:10,939 --> 00:24:14,952
because we don't Right,

557
00:24:13,014 --> 00:24:15,198
goes a little deeper. Yeah.

558
00:24:14,952 --> 00:24:15,952
right,

559
00:24:15,262 --> 00:24:18,424
exactly. However, you can challenge the
grad students,

560
00:24:18,424 --> 00:24:19,424
many of whom

561
00:24:19,677 --> 00:24:24,579
probably will wind up doing some outreach
or education in their careers and say,

562
00:24:24,579 --> 00:24:28,201
let's focus on how the authors present
this material,

563
00:24:28,201 --> 00:24:33,514
organize the material, what the common
themes and threads are that that unite

564
00:24:33,514 --> 00:24:40,197
one chapter with the next. ~ so you can
take a sort of educational approach and
say,

565
00:24:40,197 --> 00:24:43,388
okay, so how do you teach people about
sharks and use this book as a

566
00:24:43,589 --> 00:24:44,589
as a case study?

567
00:24:43,872 --> 00:24:44,872
Nice.

568
00:24:44,756 --> 00:24:46,943
Yeah. I like that. Very

569
00:24:45,419 --> 00:24:46,932
Yeah. cool.

570
00:24:46,943 --> 00:24:47,943
cool.

571
00:24:47,514 --> 00:24:50,480
Now this now Tristan do you use this
something this something you could

572
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,559
use out of your ~ in your your work with
your ~ organization?

573
00:24:55,213 --> 00:24:56,213
I

574
00:24:55,263 --> 00:24:59,180
mean at at the moment we we're running
research expeditions that

575
00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:01,734
are very much dedicated in the field,

576
00:25:01,734 --> 00:25:02,734
running

577
00:25:02,987 --> 00:25:07,368
running research. ~ but I you know I we do
give the odd lecture here and there.

578
00:25:07,368 --> 00:25:11,261
I th I see it as something that I'll use a
lot more in the future because we're

579
00:25:11,261 --> 00:25:15,193
hoping to set up a field station and run
courses,

580
00:25:15,193 --> 00:25:17,184
shark biology courses and, you know,

581
00:25:17,184 --> 00:25:19,965
this will be who knows, maybe there'll be
a third edition.

582
00:25:19,965 --> 00:25:25,037
I I hope we'll have a a research station
done by the time before the time

583
00:25:25,037 --> 00:25:26,778
the third edition perhaps comes out.

584
00:25:26,778 --> 00:25:28,989
I don't know. ~ but yeah definitely.

585
00:25:28,989 --> 00:25:30,700
yeah it's it's got

586
00:25:30,381 --> 00:25:31,381
Yeah.

587
00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:32,311
there's so much great content in it.

588
00:25:32,311 --> 00:25:33,311
~

589
00:25:32,845 --> 00:25:33,845
Yeah.

590
00:25:32,953 --> 00:25:37,308
~ I you know, a lot of the enthusiast
people that come on our trips that

591
00:25:37,308 --> 00:25:39,731
are not necessarily ~ you know,

592
00:25:39,731 --> 00:25:42,874
graduate students, you know, these are
just people that love sharks,

593
00:25:42,874 --> 00:25:43,874
they find

594
00:25:43,181 --> 00:25:44,181
Mm-hmm.

595
00:25:43,815 --> 00:25:47,849
it very accessible. I always get comments
about the fact that they can just read

596
00:25:47,849 --> 00:25:49,001
it in the evenings.

597
00:25:49,387 --> 00:25:53,599
you know, in bed and not be overwhelmed by
terminology and overwhelmed

598
00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:55,700
by sightings and things like that.

599
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:58,331
~ and there's lots of lots of photos,

600
00:25:58,331 --> 00:26:01,042
you know, a lot of cool stuff in the
taxonomy as well.

601
00:26:01,042 --> 00:26:04,544
I think the art art stuff, the artwork in
there helps to explain

602
00:26:03,980 --> 00:26:04,980
Yeah.

603
00:26:04,544 --> 00:26:05,544
some of the

604
00:26:04,791 --> 00:26:05,791
Yeah.

605
00:26:05,264 --> 00:26:08,816
con concepts too. ~ so yeah,

606
00:26:08,816 --> 00:26:10,476
absolutely I'll be using it in the future,

607
00:26:10,476 --> 00:26:12,127
but not not so much at the moment,

608
00:26:12,127 --> 00:26:15,389
as I don't really run a full course like
that.

609
00:26:15,389 --> 00:26:16,389
But

610
00:26:16,009 --> 00:26:18,094
Tristan, it came out in in hardcover.

611
00:26:18,094 --> 00:26:21,041
I'm sure you have wobbly tables that need
to be propped up.

612
00:26:19,027 --> 00:26:23,172
That's true. That's true.

613
00:26:21,041 --> 00:26:24,991
You can Yeah. Yeah,

614
00:26:21,234 --> 00:26:22,234
Ha ha.

615
00:26:21,246 --> 00:26:22,246
Ha ha ha.

616
00:26:23,172 --> 00:26:24,764
It's heavy as well. It's heavy.

617
00:26:24,535 --> 00:26:25,535
Yeah.

618
00:26:24,764 --> 00:26:25,765
You could could

619
00:26:24,991 --> 00:26:25,991
exactly. Yep.

620
00:26:25,765 --> 00:26:28,289
maybe use it as a as a weight of some
sort.

621
00:26:28,266 --> 00:26:29,266
A

622
00:26:28,367 --> 00:26:29,737
good paperweight for sure.

623
00:26:28,555 --> 00:26:29,858
Yeah, ki good

624
00:26:29,858 --> 00:26:33,094
paperway. ~ Mark Daniel's been on the
show,

625
00:26:33,094 --> 00:26:36,501
but your other ~ illustrator, Elise Elise
Pullen,

626
00:26:36,501 --> 00:26:40,149
~ could I'd share share a little bit about
her?

627
00:26:40,651 --> 00:26:41,651
Yeah,

628
00:26:40,901 --> 00:26:46,063
I'm I'm happy to. What a what a a perfect
surprise and a gem she turned out to be.

629
00:26:46,063 --> 00:26:50,424
She interviewed with me to be a graduate
student and I actually told her

630
00:26:50,424 --> 00:26:54,625
not to come to Coastal Carolina University
'cause she had a a full better ride

631
00:26:54,625 --> 00:26:59,347
at another institution and and she liked
what she saw at Coastal and and you know,

632
00:26:59,347 --> 00:27:03,318
she started doing her work on
microplastics and rhizopryon and Atlant
Atlantic sharp

633
00:27:03,318 --> 00:27:07,449
noses. And lo and behold she's you I I see
her

634
00:27:07,985 --> 00:27:11,556
a picture she's drawn when she flies
places she would take a sketch

635
00:27:11,556 --> 00:27:13,867
pad and draw animals for kids.

636
00:27:13,867 --> 00:27:17,246
And I this she had professional level,

637
00:27:17,246 --> 00:27:20,228
you know, professional quality artwork.

638
00:27:20,228 --> 00:27:26,380
and and, you know, she was willing to work
for just

639
00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:28,931
a share of royalties and a small stipend.

640
00:27:28,931 --> 00:27:33,362
~ extremely responsive. She wanted to
learn her craft.

641
00:27:33,362 --> 00:27:36,233
She you know, she didn't have the skills
yet that someone like Mark

642
00:27:36,233 --> 00:27:37,233
has who's you know who's

643
00:27:37,761 --> 00:27:40,323
professionally done illustrations like
that for a long time.

644
00:27:40,323 --> 00:27:44,096
But she had the talent. And and she she
came through.

645
00:27:43,511 --> 00:27:45,272
Yeah, okay. And so

646
00:27:44,096 --> 00:27:45,787
She subsequently illustrated

647
00:27:46,468 --> 00:27:47,999
a book that I wrote with Rob John

648
00:27:47,882 --> 00:27:48,882
Can I

649
00:27:48,082 --> 00:27:52,694
just sing Elise's praises f for for a
quick second,

650
00:27:52,694 --> 00:27:54,225
just throw my own two cents in.

651
00:27:54,225 --> 00:28:00,408
When on the second edition we went in and
did a lot of revision

652
00:28:00,408 --> 00:28:04,340
to the ~ shark evolution chapter where we
talked about all

653
00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:05,811
the different extinct sharks well,

654
00:28:05,811 --> 00:28:07,452
not all the different extinct sharks,

655
00:28:07,452 --> 00:28:08,923
there are a lot of extinct sharks,

656
00:28:08,923 --> 00:28:13,195
but many notable ~ extinct shark species.

657
00:28:13,195 --> 00:28:17,157
And a lot of them Elise had to illustrate.

658
00:28:17,625 --> 00:28:18,625
And the

659
00:28:17,676 --> 00:28:18,676
Mm.

660
00:28:18,606 --> 00:28:23,849
dirty little secret with artistic
renderings of extinct species

661
00:28:24,370 --> 00:28:29,133
is that in in the vast majority of cases,

662
00:28:29,133 --> 00:28:32,976
we're pretty sure we know what the whole
body looks like.

663
00:28:32,976 --> 00:28:37,710
But there's there are a couple gray areas
that it's like,

664
00:28:37,710 --> 00:28:40,201
well, maybe the fin was a little farther
forward,

665
00:28:40,201 --> 00:28:41,702
maybe it was a little farther back,

666
00:28:41,702 --> 00:28:44,885
maybe the fins were here, maybe the eyes
were this big,

667
00:28:44,885 --> 00:28:45,885
maybe the

668
00:28:45,885 --> 00:28:48,026
Right, the gills were were situated here.

669
00:28:48,026 --> 00:28:52,047
And so Elise was incredibly tolerant

670
00:28:52,884 --> 00:28:53,884
Mm.

671
00:28:53,747 --> 00:28:57,248
of of me looking at her artwork and
saying,

672
00:28:57,248 --> 00:29:03,740
Can you move the gills back just like a
tenth

673
00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:05,410
of a percent of the body length?

674
00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:11,312
Or or could you just round the edges on
those fins just a little bit to,

675
00:29:11,312 --> 00:29:15,673
you know, and now that might seem insanely
knit

676
00:29:15,849 --> 00:29:22,393
picky. But it's something that any paleo
artist has to has to do,

677
00:29:22,393 --> 00:29:25,205
~ or at least be open to. And to

678
00:29:24,790 --> 00:29:25,790
Yeah.

679
00:29:25,205 --> 00:29:28,797
her credit, Elise she was open to it.

680
00:29:28,797 --> 00:29:32,529
She didn't push back at all. Whenever I
would give her a comment,

681
00:29:32,529 --> 00:29:35,140
the only things she would write back is,

682
00:29:35,140 --> 00:29:37,942
okay, thanks. And then I'd give it a week
or two,

683
00:29:37,942 --> 00:29:40,544
and I would see a new version of the
figure.

684
00:29:40,544 --> 00:29:41,724
And

685
00:29:41,089 --> 00:29:42,089
Now when she

686
00:29:42,005 --> 00:29:43,005
that was great.

687
00:29:43,050 --> 00:29:46,082
when she changed it, was it all like ~ you
know,

688
00:29:46,082 --> 00:29:48,043
I as you're asking like just minor
changes,

689
00:29:48,043 --> 00:29:50,204
like from an illustration, I'm not sure if
you know this,

690
00:29:50,204 --> 00:29:51,455
she'll probably be able to answer better.

691
00:29:51,455 --> 00:29:55,877
How much of a work is it to change and
like is it's not digitally?

692
00:29:55,877 --> 00:30:00,259
Is it digitally done? Like is it on like a
Adobe kind of software,

693
00:30:00,259 --> 00:30:04,472
like a you know, Lightroom or whatever
illustrator to like move that down?

694
00:30:04,472 --> 00:30:06,443
Like how much like it you said a couple
weeks,

695
00:30:06,443 --> 00:30:09,004
like how much time does that take to just
do those little changes?

696
00:30:11,593 --> 00:30:16,484
Well, I I hope that she digitized her
first her first draft

697
00:30:14,572 --> 00:30:16,208
Ha ha ha. ~

698
00:30:16,484 --> 00:30:20,495
because because that could could just be a
you know a couple hours worth of work.

699
00:30:20,495 --> 00:30:21,495
~

700
00:30:20,587 --> 00:30:21,587
Right.

701
00:30:21,515 --> 00:30:24,056
if she had to redraw it from scratch,

702
00:30:23,946 --> 00:30:24,946
Mm-hmm.

703
00:30:24,056 --> 00:30:25,056
which

704
00:30:25,256 --> 00:30:31,928
I don't think I I made I I I don't think

705
00:30:26,273 --> 00:30:30,156
How could you, Josh, every time she had to
redo it from scratch?

706
00:30:30,026 --> 00:30:32,016
Josh, you are mean.

707
00:30:30,156 --> 00:30:35,300
You that is so bad. Can't believe you made
her do that.

708
00:30:31,928 --> 00:30:35,919
I don't think I made any requests quite
that bad.

709
00:30:35,981 --> 00:30:38,763
I never did that. Dan probably never did
that either.

710
00:30:36,077 --> 00:30:37,077
Yeah.

711
00:30:36,109 --> 00:30:39,410
Can I never know.

712
00:30:38,763 --> 00:30:41,245
God. Wow.

713
00:30:38,836 --> 00:30:42,371
Yeah, it was just Josh. Yeah.

714
00:30:39,410 --> 00:30:41,310
Can I can I add

715
00:30:40,525 --> 00:30:41,525
Just ~

716
00:30:41,310 --> 00:30:44,401
a couple more things about Elise because
she an amazing

717
00:30:42,858 --> 00:30:43,858
Yeah, yeah.

718
00:30:43,537 --> 00:30:44,537
For sure.

719
00:30:44,401 --> 00:30:49,273
field scientist, an amazing ~ instructor
or natural teacher,

720
00:30:49,273 --> 00:30:54,754
and she would go out on the boat ~ and
catch and tag and release big sharks.

721
00:30:54,754 --> 00:30:57,405
I would maybe stay in the back and not do
anything.

722
00:30:57,405 --> 00:30:58,412
I'd get off the boat, it look,

723
00:30:58,412 --> 00:31:02,306
you know, it looked like a pile of a
bucket of shark blood had been put on

724
00:31:02,306 --> 00:31:03,957
top on on top of me.

725
00:31:04,245 --> 00:31:05,245
She'd

726
00:31:04,475 --> 00:31:09,178
get off the boat and there wouldn't be a
drop of red or stain anything on it.

727
00:31:09,178 --> 00:31:14,728
She was just amazingly ~ adept at doing
everything and not looking as

728
00:31:14,728 --> 00:31:17,120
if she had done it. So

729
00:31:16,406 --> 00:31:17,406
That's awesome.

730
00:31:17,602 --> 00:31:21,343
Has this kind of propelled her in a new
career direction to go ~

731
00:31:21,343 --> 00:31:25,599
as an illustrator than where she may have
gone b thinking ri originally?

732
00:31:23,991 --> 00:31:25,611
Well yeah, I was gonna

733
00:31:25,611 --> 00:31:28,843
say she illustrated another book that I've
co wrote with Rob Johnson

734
00:31:28,843 --> 00:31:32,602
and Sharon Gilman called ~ Tooth and Claw
Top Predators of the World.

735
00:31:32,602 --> 00:31:35,165
That we also we published that with
Princeton.

736
00:31:35,165 --> 00:31:40,667
she illustrated that. subsequently she's
she's done some ~ some work

737
00:31:40,667 --> 00:31:42,367
I think maybe in a children's book.

738
00:31:42,367 --> 00:31:48,189
~ but she's mainly been working as a as a
field naturalist and educator.

739
00:31:48,767 --> 00:31:52,963
Okay. Okay. Did she I did she didn't did
she end up going to coastal Carolina

740
00:31:52,963 --> 00:31:54,005
for her degree or

741
00:31:53,712 --> 00:31:54,712
she did.

742
00:31:54,032 --> 00:31:56,334
She got a master's degree, in you know,

743
00:31:56,334 --> 00:31:59,457
in like two two and a half years to a good
study at the time.

744
00:31:59,457 --> 00:32:05,822
~ the the the microplastic load in
rhizopryprinodin was higher than

745
00:32:05,822 --> 00:32:09,282
in any other shark. subsequently I think
they're there are ~

746
00:32:08,769 --> 00:32:09,769
Yeah.

747
00:32:09,535 --> 00:32:10,706
you know, they've been eclipsed.

748
00:32:10,706 --> 00:32:12,517
But ~ it was it was good solid work.

749
00:32:12,517 --> 00:32:15,139
Hadn't been published yet. I'm waiting for
her to do that.

750
00:32:15,725 --> 00:32:17,198
It's always a fun that's

751
00:32:16,374 --> 00:32:17,374
Ha ha ha.

752
00:32:16,721 --> 00:32:17,721
Yeah.

753
00:32:17,198 --> 00:32:19,491
it's two sages. Get through the thesis,

754
00:32:19,491 --> 00:32:21,334
then let's get the paper published.

755
00:32:19,636 --> 00:32:22,097
Yeah. Get them published. Yeah.

756
00:32:21,334 --> 00:32:24,129
Yeah, that that's really good.

757
00:32:21,538 --> 00:32:22,538
Yeah.

758
00:32:22,097 --> 00:32:25,038
Yeah. Now what one

759
00:32:24,129 --> 00:32:25,129
It's really good.

760
00:32:25,038 --> 00:32:28,149
thing about this book, ~ at the end it
says,

761
00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:30,921
you know, it's like essentials for
educators,

762
00:32:30,921 --> 00:32:34,662
students, and enthusiasts. How do you like
obviously,

763
00:32:34,662 --> 00:32:37,023
you know, students, you I can understand
where,

764
00:32:37,023 --> 00:32:39,654
you know, people are arguing are buying it
because they're,

765
00:32:39,654 --> 00:32:42,305
you know, Josh, they're in your class or
they're in a professor's class

766
00:32:42,305 --> 00:32:43,906
and I can see that that happening.

767
00:32:43,906 --> 00:32:47,421
what do you d how do you define and and
Dan you might be able to say

768
00:32:47,577 --> 00:32:49,136
how do you define ~

769
00:32:50,248 --> 00:32:53,980
enthusiasts and then and like what would
they use this book for?

770
00:32:55,755 --> 00:32:59,747
Yeah, I mean i it enthusiasts covers a
broad range,

771
00:32:59,747 --> 00:33:01,088
doesn't it? And you

772
00:33:00,267 --> 00:33:01,267
Mm-hmm.

773
00:33:01,088 --> 00:33:04,130
know, it's like ~ when Supreme Court
Justice Potter Stewart said,

774
00:33:04,130 --> 00:33:07,892
You know pornography when you see it I
think y

775
00:33:06,442 --> 00:33:07,442
Ha ha ha.

776
00:33:08,113 --> 00:33:12,865
you know an enthusiast when when you see
one.

777
00:33:13,547 --> 00:33:14,829
That's true.

778
00:33:17,623 --> 00:33:20,544
So I you know, I I again there's a big big
range.

779
00:33:20,544 --> 00:33:24,555
I mean, a c a colleague at another
institution sent me a picture of

780
00:33:24,555 --> 00:33:27,196
a kid leafing through it. And obviously

781
00:33:26,603 --> 00:33:27,603
Right.

782
00:33:27,196 --> 00:33:29,396
he's not gonna be reading it, but ~ you
know,

783
00:33:29,396 --> 00:33:30,396
this this will

784
00:33:29,866 --> 00:33:30,866
Yeah.

785
00:33:30,267 --> 00:33:34,375
set them on a you know, maybe to begin
reading more about sharks and

786
00:33:34,375 --> 00:33:36,808
to appreciate ~ something you know,

787
00:33:36,808 --> 00:33:38,919
a level above the typical kid lid.

788
00:33:39,573 --> 00:33:40,573
Yeah.

789
00:33:40,059 --> 00:33:46,091
but ~ you know, there are there have been
some enthusiasts that I think

790
00:33:46,273 --> 00:33:48,284
You know, you need to maybe step back a
little bit.

791
00:33:48,284 --> 00:33:53,397
This is not quite level for you if you're
like a a maybe a a teenager or preteen.

792
00:33:53,397 --> 00:33:57,546
~ but then I've seen others that break
that rule and would be it would

793
00:33:57,546 --> 00:33:58,801
be perfectly suitable for.

794
00:33:59,145 --> 00:34:01,457
I've taught I was actually that's what I
was thinking about some high school

795
00:33:59,169 --> 00:34:00,169
Yeah.

796
00:33:59,211 --> 00:34:00,211
I mean I

797
00:34:01,457 --> 00:34:02,457
students

798
00:34:01,757 --> 00:34:05,030
that are in my area that probably want a a
copy of that book,

799
00:34:05,030 --> 00:34:06,702
so we'll have to make sure they

800
00:34:05,643 --> 00:34:06,693
Yeah. I I would

801
00:34:06,702 --> 00:34:07,702
get it.

802
00:34:07,053 --> 00:34:11,295
I would think an enthusiastic high school
or student or certainly a early

803
00:34:11,295 --> 00:34:15,296
c early college student would be would
would jump all over something like that.

804
00:34:15,296 --> 00:34:16,933
something like this book. I mean,

805
00:34:16,933 --> 00:34:20,317
it's just it's just there's a lot of
information in there just on just

806
00:34:20,317 --> 00:34:23,068
the general shark biology, ecology and
everything

807
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:23,239
Yeah.

808
00:34:23,068 --> 00:34:26,569
and and the fossil records. And I was
gonna say if you ask somebody,

809
00:34:26,569 --> 00:34:31,020
I know I this kind of be probably a bit of
an inside baseball thing,

810
00:34:31,020 --> 00:34:33,821
but ~ those of you that are familiar with
Frank Daniels,

811
00:34:34,453 --> 00:34:36,726
Elazo brank fishes from like nineteen
thirty four.

812
00:34:36,726 --> 00:34:40,306
~ Josh nodded his head. He's probably one
of the few he's probably one

813
00:34:39,687 --> 00:34:42,094
yeah. It's a classic. It's a classic.

814
00:34:40,306 --> 00:34:42,161
of the few young you're probably one of
the few

815
00:34:42,161 --> 00:34:44,074
people in your age cohort that knows what
that is,

816
00:34:44,074 --> 00:34:48,488
but ~ but Leonard Capano always told me
he'd read that when he was eight years
old.

817
00:34:48,488 --> 00:34:51,231
And ~ and he showed

818
00:34:50,707 --> 00:34:51,707
Eight years old.

819
00:34:51,752 --> 00:34:52,752
he showed me the

820
00:34:52,023 --> 00:34:53,023
Yeah, we

821
00:34:52,443 --> 00:34:53,443
cop

822
00:34:52,456 --> 00:34:53,456
Boy, he

823
00:34:52,887 --> 00:34:55,265
must have been a fun little kid at dinner
parties.

824
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:55,880
Ha ha ha.

825
00:34:55,265 --> 00:34:57,471
I can tell you that's well

826
00:34:55,403 --> 00:34:56,908
Yeah. I bet.

827
00:34:55,703 --> 00:34:57,574
Yeah. He and he and

828
00:34:57,654 --> 00:35:00,806
he had the receipts 'cause he showed me
the co he showed me his copy that

829
00:35:00,806 --> 00:35:03,287
he got when he was about about eight years
old,

830
00:35:03,287 --> 00:35:05,278
his mom gave him and he read it.

831
00:35:05,278 --> 00:35:09,351
He had just all kinds of s notes in there
and stuff and he still had it when

832
00:35:09,351 --> 00:35:12,783
I was there. So ~ yeah, I I like you said,

833
00:35:12,783 --> 00:35:16,284
he must have been a fun kid at parties and
stuff.

834
00:35:16,904 --> 00:35:21,526
Can I just make a point that actually it
it builds on something that Tristan said

835
00:35:22,007 --> 00:35:25,749
at the top of the interview? ~ the
terminology,

836
00:35:25,749 --> 00:35:31,672
right? I mean, we we have terminology in
the book.

837
00:35:31,672 --> 00:35:33,143
You have to. I mean, th there

838
00:35:32,957 --> 00:35:33,957
Of course.

839
00:35:33,143 --> 00:35:34,143
there are

840
00:35:33,503 --> 00:35:35,004
certain there are certain words.

841
00:35:35,004 --> 00:35:37,365
You just that's what you call this
structure

842
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,800
Mm-hmm.

843
00:35:37,365 --> 00:35:39,376
or this behavior or this whatever.

844
00:35:39,376 --> 00:35:45,960
~ however, it really is like if you're not
careful.

845
00:35:46,268 --> 00:35:51,580
Learning another language. when I was a
freshman in college,

846
00:35:51,580 --> 00:35:58,363
my zoology professor said the average
biology major learns more words

847
00:35:58,363 --> 00:36:02,575
in their freshman year that are completely
new to them than

848
00:36:02,575 --> 00:36:06,096
a foreign language major, because most
foreign language majors come

849
00:36:06,228 --> 00:36:11,258
in with a working knowledge of of at least
conversational French

850
00:36:11,258 --> 00:36:13,948
or Spanish or German or whatever language
they're taking.

851
00:36:13,948 --> 00:36:14,948
And I don't

852
00:36:15,272 --> 00:36:19,955
I I'm embarrassed to say I've never
actually asked him to cite his source on
that.

853
00:36:19,955 --> 00:36:22,688
But it sounds so good, it deserves to be
true.

854
00:36:22,688 --> 00:36:23,688
~ and

855
00:36:23,159 --> 00:36:24,159
Ha ha

856
00:36:23,648 --> 00:36:26,961
so I always took that to heart.

857
00:36:26,961 --> 00:36:33,445
When you're writing an educational text in
shark biology or any branch of biology,

858
00:36:33,445 --> 00:36:37,949
you have to bear in mind that there's
terminology that you can't escape,

859
00:36:37,949 --> 00:36:38,949
but it can

860
00:36:38,262 --> 00:36:39,262
Mm-hmm.

861
00:36:38,629 --> 00:36:41,111
be really daunting and really dry.

862
00:36:41,111 --> 00:36:42,172
And

863
00:36:43,506 --> 00:36:48,500
Tristan made the point that we didn't go
super heavy into the terminology,

864
00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:50,242
and that's part of the appeal.

865
00:36:50,242 --> 00:36:55,406
And I would just say the terminology that
we couldn't avoid,

866
00:36:55,406 --> 00:37:00,681
we used. And that's how you learn a a
language.

867
00:37:00,681 --> 00:37:04,674
You don't learn a language. When you were
learning your your first language,

868
00:37:04,674 --> 00:37:09,839
you'd probab I would imagine you probably
didn't go into preschool

869
00:37:09,839 --> 00:37:11,040
and have the teacher say,

870
00:37:11,332 --> 00:37:13,543
Okay, let's conjugate the verb to be.

871
00:37:13,543 --> 00:37:15,753
You know,

872
00:37:13,921 --> 00:37:15,542
Yeah. Yeah.

873
00:37:13,948 --> 00:37:14,948
Right.

874
00:37:15,833 --> 00:37:19,805
which you just use it and you you learn
the the language,

875
00:37:19,805 --> 00:37:22,675
you you learn the vocabulary by using it.

876
00:37:22,675 --> 00:37:24,556
And that's what we did in this book.

877
00:37:24,556 --> 00:37:28,117
When we had terminology,

878
00:37:28,117 --> 00:37:31,618
we used it. And so the the definitions,

879
00:37:31,618 --> 00:37:35,159
we presented the definitions, but they
were also self-evident,

880
00:37:35,159 --> 00:37:38,360
which makes it far more accessible.

881
00:37:38,642 --> 00:37:40,974
For the enthusiasts, for the people who

882
00:37:40,557 --> 00:37:41,557
Yeah.

883
00:37:40,939 --> 00:37:41,939
Yeah.

884
00:37:40,974 --> 00:37:41,994
don't necessarily

885
00:37:41,994 --> 00:37:43,165
wake up in the morning saying,

886
00:37:43,165 --> 00:37:46,657
boy, I'm going to master biological
terminology today.

887
00:37:46,657 --> 00:37:48,398
But you read

888
00:37:46,797 --> 00:37:47,797
Yeah.

889
00:37:48,398 --> 00:37:52,701
the book and and you just use the words to
describe what you're learning

890
00:37:53,222 --> 00:37:57,184
and it becomes more accessible and you and
you learn the terminology.

891
00:37:57,184 --> 00:37:58,184
So that's

892
00:37:57,357 --> 00:37:58,357
Yeah.

893
00:37:57,775 --> 00:37:59,446
part of what makes this, I think,

894
00:37:59,446 --> 00:38:02,578
accessible for both students and
enthusiasts.

895
00:38:03,553 --> 00:38:05,899
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, very much so.

896
00:38:05,899 --> 00:38:08,966
So so now that you guys have this book
done,

897
00:38:08,966 --> 00:38:12,154
I'll start with Dan. Do you have any other
books lined up,

898
00:38:12,154 --> 00:38:13,257
Dan, you can talk about?

899
00:38:13,591 --> 00:38:14,591
Yeah.

900
00:38:13,610 --> 00:38:14,610
Funny funny

901
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:19,552
you should ask. ~ when Dean was on this
podcast,

902
00:38:19,552 --> 00:38:22,894
you mentioned to him about writing a book
on batoid biology,

903
00:38:22,894 --> 00:38:27,676
and he and I and Matt Coleman are in the
final stages of finishing that one up.

904
00:38:28,012 --> 00:38:29,012
Awesome.

905
00:38:28,836 --> 00:38:32,938
Josh and I ~ have a contract from
Princeton to work on a book called

906
00:38:33,158 --> 00:38:35,894
How Sharks Work. ~ and he can

907
00:38:35,483 --> 00:38:36,483
cool.

908
00:38:35,894 --> 00:38:39,541
tell you a little bit more about that
because I came up with the title and it
said,

909
00:38:39,541 --> 00:38:40,541
Would you like

910
00:38:39,745 --> 00:38:40,745
Yeah.

911
00:38:40,161 --> 00:38:41,161
to be

912
00:38:40,821 --> 00:38:44,522
senior author of this book, provide a
vision for it,

913
00:38:44,522 --> 00:38:45,822
fill in the blanks. And he did.

914
00:38:45,513 --> 00:38:46,513
Ha ha

915
00:38:46,423 --> 00:38:47,423
Yeah.

916
00:38:46,657 --> 00:38:47,657
Yeah.

917
00:38:47,483 --> 00:38:51,824
I've got a ~ an idea on the drawing board
with ~ Sophie Maycock,

918
00:38:51,824 --> 00:38:54,365
who you who you had on, who who wrote
Shark

919
00:38:53,356 --> 00:38:54,356
yeah. Yep.

920
00:38:53,675 --> 00:38:54,675
Mm-hmm.

921
00:38:54,365 --> 00:38:55,865
the Illustrated Biography with me,

922
00:38:55,865 --> 00:38:59,156
~ called ~ what's it called?

923
00:38:59,156 --> 00:39:04,688
Sharks that break the rules. And I'm
talking with some of my former students
about

924
00:39:04,688 --> 00:39:08,849
having students write a book about shark
biology for students.

925
00:39:08,849 --> 00:39:10,039
And then

926
00:39:09,707 --> 00:39:10,707
Hmm.

927
00:39:10,325 --> 00:39:12,536
To top it off when my wife and I were
talking,

928
00:39:12,536 --> 00:39:18,900
she said, ~ you know, you could use sharks
to teach a lot of other disciplines.

929
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:20,130
And so I'm thinking, well, you know,

930
00:39:20,130 --> 00:39:21,571
I'm a liberal arts kind of guy.

931
00:39:21,571 --> 00:39:24,373
Why not a book called Sharks Across the
Curriculum?

932
00:39:24,373 --> 00:39:26,204
And just look

933
00:39:25,472 --> 00:39:26,472
I like that.

934
00:39:26,204 --> 00:39:30,636
at every every different curriculum and
find shark examples that could

935
00:39:30,636 --> 00:39:33,678
be used to illustrate important principles
in that curriculum.

936
00:39:33,678 --> 00:39:34,678
So

937
00:39:34,202 --> 00:39:35,202
wow.

938
00:39:34,919 --> 00:39:39,371
I'll probably die before I finish any of
but but they're on the drawing board.

939
00:39:38,715 --> 00:39:39,715
I love it.

940
00:39:39,708 --> 00:39:41,661
Go, cool. Good. Good.

941
00:39:40,017 --> 00:39:41,017
I love it.

942
00:39:41,661 --> 00:39:42,923
Tr how about you, Tristan?

943
00:39:44,373 --> 00:39:45,934
~ well at this point w

944
00:39:44,778 --> 00:39:46,291
Is that behavior book gonna come out?

945
00:39:47,113 --> 00:39:50,036
I d I don't think so. Not at not at not at
this point.

946
00:39:50,036 --> 00:39:54,789
~ I'm full steam ahead with with trying to
set up a research station in the Bahamas,

947
00:39:54,789 --> 00:39:58,001
so that's that's kind of the priority at
the moment and

948
00:39:58,059 --> 00:39:59,059
Nice.

949
00:39:59,287 --> 00:40:00,287
kids

950
00:39:59,297 --> 00:40:00,297
Yeah.

951
00:39:59,757 --> 00:40:02,859
and and just focusing on the the projects
that we have going.

952
00:40:02,859 --> 00:40:05,660
~ I don't know. It's something I'm quite
keen on.

953
00:40:05,660 --> 00:40:07,621
I feel like there's a gap in the market
there.

954
00:40:07,621 --> 00:40:11,903
There's not really a good just shark
behavior and people kind of love

955
00:40:11,445 --> 00:40:12,445
Right.

956
00:40:11,903 --> 00:40:16,745
that. Like you talk to any students ~ I
get so many students email me about

957
00:40:16,745 --> 00:40:20,277
how can I do this? How do I get into sh
behavioral work?

958
00:40:20,277 --> 00:40:23,398
And you know that that was one of the
reasons why I got into shark.

959
00:40:23,398 --> 00:40:25,709
I I actually read books on animal
behavior.

960
00:40:25,709 --> 00:40:26,709
I remember

961
00:40:26,122 --> 00:40:27,122
Yes.

962
00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:29,231
when I was 16, 17 reading a book by a lady
called

963
00:40:29,301 --> 00:40:31,512
Aubrey Manning, Dr. Aubrey Manning,

964
00:40:31,512 --> 00:40:36,253
about animal behavior, and that had quite
serious concepts and things in it.

965
00:40:36,253 --> 00:40:37,666
But I got it when I was that age,

966
00:40:37,666 --> 00:40:41,379
and and that kind of got me into
behavioral ecology,

967
00:40:41,379 --> 00:40:43,300
and and and that's that's why

968
00:40:42,849 --> 00:40:43,849
Yeah.

969
00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:45,141
I I kind of love love that side of it.

970
00:40:45,141 --> 00:40:49,174
But at the moment, yeah, a little bit of a
pause on the on the on

971
00:40:48,673 --> 00:40:49,673
Yeah.

972
00:40:49,174 --> 00:40:52,326
the book writing, more into we've got a
lot of papers I'm working on

973
00:40:52,326 --> 00:40:54,567
at the moment as well. So yeah,

974
00:40:53,153 --> 00:40:56,150
Yeah. good. Yeah. Josh, how about you?

975
00:40:54,567 --> 00:40:55,928
but maybe.

976
00:40:56,393 --> 00:40:57,393
Do you have any

977
00:40:57,393 --> 00:41:00,605
Well, Dan already told you that that we're

978
00:40:59,981 --> 00:41:00,981
Yeah.

979
00:41:00,605 --> 00:41:01,706
chipping away at a book,

980
00:41:00,919 --> 00:41:01,919
Mm-hmm.

981
00:41:01,706 --> 00:41:04,358
so give it give it another what would you
say,

982
00:41:04,358 --> 00:41:07,150
two years, Dan, and maybe it'll be on
shelves then.

983
00:41:07,146 --> 00:41:08,146
Ha ha ha.

984
00:41:08,023 --> 00:41:09,023
Yeah.

985
00:41:09,652 --> 00:41:14,134
at the rate these things go. How how
sharks work.

986
00:41:09,815 --> 00:41:12,213
Great title, great title. I love it.

987
00:41:11,479 --> 00:41:14,829
Well so it I

988
00:41:11,862 --> 00:41:12,862
Great title.

989
00:41:14,134 --> 00:41:15,134
Yeah.

990
00:41:14,829 --> 00:41:18,391
was gonna say here's a bit of trivia Dan
Dan and I share is that when

991
00:41:18,391 --> 00:41:23,312
we were kind of coming up, there was kind
of two books that pretty much everybody

992
00:41:23,312 --> 00:41:24,661
read. They were sort of the Bibles,

993
00:41:24,661 --> 00:41:26,773
and they were both by a guy named Perry
Gilbert.

994
00:41:26,773 --> 00:41:32,005
And ~ they were around for looks like Josh
Pai has a copy of it,

995
00:41:32,005 --> 00:41:33,555
and they were done in the sixties,

996
00:41:33,555 --> 00:41:37,156
and when Dan and I met, yep, there they
are.

997
00:41:37,156 --> 00:41:38,967
Classics

998
00:41:38,075 --> 00:41:39,075
We go. Yep.

999
00:41:39,776 --> 00:41:42,448
And if you're if you're out, if you can
score those like Josh,

1000
00:41:42,448 --> 00:41:43,888
those are two that good to have,

1001
00:41:43,888 --> 00:41:48,982
two good ones to have. But ~ in this
infamous bar that ~ Dan and I were at,

1002
00:41:48,982 --> 00:41:51,914
we were there and one of the people we met
was Perry Gilbert,

1003
00:41:51,914 --> 00:41:56,777
which and it's just one of those things I
know Dan you know,

1004
00:41:56,777 --> 00:41:58,158
I I just I never forgot about it.

1005
00:41:58,158 --> 00:41:59,819
It was just such a I j I

1006
00:41:59,286 --> 00:42:00,286
Easy, yeah.

1007
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,241
yeah, I tried to forget a little bit about
our bar experience,

1008
00:42:03,241 --> 00:42:05,993
but thank God there were no cell phones
around that time.

1009
00:42:05,993 --> 00:42:08,695
But but the Perry Gilbert aspect of it was
was pretty

1010
00:42:09,005 --> 00:42:13,567
Pretty amazing. and just for the young
people listening there,

1011
00:42:13,567 --> 00:42:16,261
it was Perry Gilbert who was like the big
name there,

1012
00:42:16,261 --> 00:42:19,995
but also there was Don Nelson who was
hosting us,

1013
00:42:19,995 --> 00:42:23,338
~ Greg Cae, Leonard Campano,

1014
00:42:23,338 --> 00:42:27,842
~ who else, Dan? There was just like a
almost like a who's who of that

1015
00:42:27,842 --> 00:42:30,524
era in the early 80s of shark people.

1016
00:42:30,524 --> 00:42:35,098
But those were those were all very
prominent people ~ in their careers and
stuff.

1017
00:42:35,098 --> 00:42:36,098
And it was kind of neat just.

1018
00:42:36,491 --> 00:42:38,587
Sitting around having a beer, talking with
these guys,

1019
00:42:38,587 --> 00:42:42,919
very casual. ~ but the Perry Gilbert
meeting him was really a big,

1020
00:42:42,919 --> 00:42:44,785
big thing. I know in my career early in.

1021
00:42:47,383 --> 00:42:48,383
To me.

1022
00:42:47,765 --> 00:42:52,244
Yeah, I I agree. And and those
embarrassing moments I recalled included

1023
00:42:52,244 --> 00:42:54,278
a bottle of stillich nye and a bison,

1024
00:42:54,278 --> 00:42:55,521
as I recall.

1025
00:42:55,155 --> 00:42:56,155
~

1026
00:42:55,934 --> 00:42:56,934
Interesting.

1027
00:42:57,271 --> 00:42:58,782
We'll just let that one rest for now.

1028
00:42:58,782 --> 00:43:05,386
~ So maybe some episode where Dan and I'll
come out and have

1029
00:43:05,386 --> 00:43:10,609
a couple of beers and share some stories
of beyond the this this well,

1030
00:43:08,076 --> 00:43:11,022
That'll be for members only. We'll have a
membership group for that one.

1031
00:43:10,609 --> 00:43:12,890
yeah, this will be the membership only and
this will be the beyond

1032
00:43:11,022 --> 00:43:15,403
Yeah. The beyond beyond jaws.

1033
00:43:12,890 --> 00:43:18,443
the the beyond Beyond Jaws, ~ Be Jaws ~ so
yeah.

1034
00:43:15,403 --> 00:43:17,375
Actually, that's not a bad idea for a
membership.

1035
00:43:17,375 --> 00:43:19,936
Right on.

1036
00:43:18,443 --> 00:43:20,094
So ~ well anyway

1037
00:43:20,214 --> 00:43:23,816
yeah anyway guys, any it's been great
having you on to catch up with you

1038
00:43:23,816 --> 00:43:25,349
and to talk about your book. Do you have
any

1039
00:43:25,993 --> 00:43:27,346
Each of you deep starting with Dan,

1040
00:43:27,346 --> 00:43:30,582
do each of you have any final comments
you'd like to make about the book?

1041
00:43:32,019 --> 00:43:33,019
~

1042
00:43:32,369 --> 00:43:36,571
speaking for everybody, I very much
appreciate your podcast and what you're
doing

1043
00:43:36,891 --> 00:43:39,272
and have always done both of you for the
Shark World.

1044
00:43:39,272 --> 00:43:44,034
The only other thing is I've never
actually met Josh face to face,

1045
00:43:44,034 --> 00:43:47,086
so I'm not convinced he's not a AI avatar,

1046
00:43:45,995 --> 00:43:46,995
Ha ha

1047
00:43:46,420 --> 00:43:47,420
Ha ha ha.

1048
00:43:47,086 --> 00:43:48,966
but anyone

1049
00:43:48,966 --> 00:43:50,217
can validate that for me.

1050
00:43:49,264 --> 00:43:50,264
no.

1051
00:43:50,769 --> 00:43:54,320
AI doesn't put the typos into its work
that I put into it.

1052
00:43:53,930 --> 00:43:54,930
Ha ha ha.

1053
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:55,320
That's how you know.

1054
00:43:54,623 --> 00:43:55,623
But but

1055
00:43:55,445 --> 00:43:57,692
th thank you. Thank you very much for all
the

1056
00:43:56,959 --> 00:43:57,959
Yeah.

1057
00:43:57,766 --> 00:43:58,766
You're welcome.

1058
00:43:58,034 --> 00:43:59,034
all

1059
00:43:58,264 --> 00:43:59,558
the great questions for you know,

1060
00:43:59,558 --> 00:44:00,558
and everything you all

1061
00:44:01,294 --> 00:44:02,815
Yeah. Tr Tristan?

1062
00:44:03,841 --> 00:44:08,043
I mean the only thing I would say is I
just hope it inspires people to want

1063
00:44:08,043 --> 00:44:11,925
to learn more about sharks and you know
whether whether you read something

1064
00:44:11,925 --> 00:44:15,817
in here and and it and it and it ignites a
question that you might have

1065
00:44:15,817 --> 00:44:19,594
and and you take that on and it maybe it
becomes a a project that you're doing.

1066
00:44:19,594 --> 00:44:21,919
I you know, I just I you know,

1067
00:44:21,919 --> 00:44:24,140
for me that's what happened to me when I
was a kid,

1068
00:44:24,140 --> 00:44:28,132
reading books. You you get these ideas and
and it might be you're reading about,

1069
00:44:28,132 --> 00:44:31,204
you know, chimpanzee behaviour and then
you can think,

1070
00:44:31,204 --> 00:44:33,678
how would I relate that to to perhaps
doing something

1071
00:44:33,845 --> 00:44:37,067
With sharks, or ~ and and so I yeah,

1072
00:44:37,067 --> 00:44:39,458
I just ~ I love these types of books.

1073
00:44:39,458 --> 00:44:43,081
~ I love the thought of all different
people from all different walks

1074
00:44:43,081 --> 00:44:46,413
of life might get ignited and do
something,

1075
00:44:46,413 --> 00:44:50,225
and who knows, they could be but could
become one of the leading scientists

1076
00:44:50,445 --> 00:44:54,758
~ that you know explain some theory that
none of us know about.

1077
00:44:54,758 --> 00:44:57,219
And the one thing I I love about sharks,

1078
00:44:57,219 --> 00:45:00,301
and I was thinking about this before ~ I
came on this,

1079
00:45:00,301 --> 00:45:02,333
was you know, I just went on safari.

1080
00:45:03,103 --> 00:45:08,358
in South Africa and you can literally sit
there and watch a lion all day,

1081
00:45:08,358 --> 00:45:10,110
every day, pretty much. Okay, at

1082
00:45:09,408 --> 00:45:10,408
That's amazing.

1083
00:45:10,110 --> 00:45:12,132
night they disappear. But you can watch
them.

1084
00:45:12,132 --> 00:45:14,548
You you've got drones, you've got VHS,

1085
00:45:14,548 --> 00:45:17,687
you know, taggers, you can follow exactly
what they're doing the whole time.

1086
00:45:17,687 --> 00:45:20,010
But with sharks, they disappear.

1087
00:45:20,010 --> 00:45:22,072
They become mysterious. And I just think

1088
00:45:21,408 --> 00:45:22,408
Mm.

1089
00:45:22,072 --> 00:45:25,465
that always inspires for me that inspires
me to want to

1090
00:45:25,068 --> 00:45:26,068
Yeah.

1091
00:45:25,465 --> 00:45:26,776
learn more. And it's like it doesn't
matter

1092
00:45:27,729 --> 00:45:32,191
who is working on them? Even if even if
like Elon Musk and Bezos came together

1093
00:45:32,191 --> 00:45:35,493
and like, let's put our billions together
and figure out what white sharks do,

1094
00:45:35,493 --> 00:45:39,395
they still wouldn't be able to do it
'cause they disappear off into the depths.

1095
00:45:39,395 --> 00:45:40,395
~

1096
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:40,670
Right.

1097
00:45:40,436 --> 00:45:42,937
you know, and I I I think that's super
cool about sharks.

1098
00:45:43,166 --> 00:45:44,883
Absolutely. Absolutely.

1099
00:45:43,233 --> 00:45:44,459
Yeah, yeah.

1100
00:45:44,942 --> 00:45:45,942
And Josh.

1101
00:45:47,398 --> 00:45:52,301
Well, I guess ~ related to the book I
would just say if anybody is reading it,

1102
00:45:52,301 --> 00:45:56,704
if they're interested in a fact or a
figure that we present,

1103
00:45:56,704 --> 00:45:59,887
don't take our word for it.

1104
00:45:59,887 --> 00:46:01,008
I mean sure, we

1105
00:46:00,444 --> 00:46:01,444
Mm-hmm.

1106
00:46:01,008 --> 00:46:04,200
put it in the book, but if you're really
interested in something,

1107
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:05,931
if something captures your attention,

1108
00:46:05,931 --> 00:46:09,113
don't just stop with our book.

1109
00:46:09,113 --> 00:46:12,986
~ go track down the source. Go figure

1110
00:46:11,818 --> 00:46:12,887
Yeah, be curious.

1111
00:46:12,986 --> 00:46:15,738
out yeah, exactly. Read broadly and

1112
00:46:15,083 --> 00:46:16,083
Ha ha ha

1113
00:46:16,171 --> 00:46:17,992
I had to get a shaveless plug in there.

1114
00:46:16,250 --> 00:46:17,830
Yeah, there you go. That that's a

1115
00:46:16,807 --> 00:46:18,001
Go read Sharks of the

1116
00:46:18,001 --> 00:46:19,001
World.

1117
00:46:18,911 --> 00:46:20,751
yeah, that that's that's that's a good
one.

1118
00:46:20,751 --> 00:46:21,751
~

1119
00:46:21,088 --> 00:46:22,088
Two good

1120
00:46:21,444 --> 00:46:22,444
books.

1121
00:46:21,691 --> 00:46:22,691
but

1122
00:46:22,552 --> 00:46:26,373
yeah, read broadly and and don't stop with
one book.

1123
00:46:26,373 --> 00:46:27,373
If you

1124
00:46:26,636 --> 00:46:27,636
Yeah.

1125
00:46:27,223 --> 00:46:29,273
find a fact or a figure that interests
you,

1126
00:46:29,273 --> 00:46:32,254
go track down the source. And and in so
doing,

1127
00:46:32,254 --> 00:46:34,095
you might wind up, as Tristan said,

1128
00:46:34,095 --> 00:46:37,476
realizing, hey, there is actually a gap in
the knowledge.

1129
00:46:37,476 --> 00:46:41,887
It turns out that Dan and Tristan and Dean
and Josh just sort

1130
00:46:41,887 --> 00:46:44,698
of summarized something when they made
this statement.

1131
00:46:44,715 --> 00:46:45,715
Right.

1132
00:46:45,038 --> 00:46:46,038
When you do a little

1133
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,131
Digging, you find out, well actually yes,

1134
00:46:48,131 --> 00:46:50,623
that is the general trend. Except for
here,

1135
00:46:50,623 --> 00:46:52,875
here, here, or in this species or that
species.

1136
00:46:52,875 --> 00:46:53,875
And then you're

1137
00:46:53,089 --> 00:46:54,089
Mm-hmm.

1138
00:46:53,676 --> 00:46:55,557
off to the races. Go figure out why.

1139
00:46:55,557 --> 00:46:56,578
And

1140
00:46:55,969 --> 00:46:56,969
Yeah.

1141
00:46:56,598 --> 00:46:58,849
and now you're you're on the cutting edge.

1142
00:46:58,849 --> 00:47:02,421
You can really sink your teeth into sharks
in a way that other people haven't.

1143
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:04,585
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's great.

1144
00:47:04,781 --> 00:47:06,503
Well well great. Well well thanks guys.

1145
00:47:06,503 --> 00:47:10,598
Thank you all and thank thanks Dean who
couldn't make it here tonight because

1146
00:47:10,598 --> 00:47:11,598
of his internet.

1147
00:47:10,729 --> 00:47:11,729
Yeah.

1148
00:47:11,369 --> 00:47:15,443
But ~ really well we're really glad having
all you guys on here and

1149
00:47:15,443 --> 00:47:18,487
~ we'll ~ hopefully speak with you all
soon.

1150
00:47:18,487 --> 00:47:20,419
Okay, and good luck with the book sales.

1151
00:47:20,695 --> 00:47:22,252
Thank you. This is a great fight

1152
00:47:20,929 --> 00:47:22,369
Yes, thank you.

1153
00:47:21,792 --> 00:47:22,792
Thanks,

1154
00:47:21,825 --> 00:47:22,825
Thank you.

1155
00:47:22,252 --> 00:47:23,252
tonight.

1156
00:47:22,347 --> 00:47:23,347
Dave. Thanks,

1157
00:47:22,954 --> 00:47:23,954
Andrew.

1158
00:47:23,132 --> 00:47:24,132
We'll

1159
00:47:23,663 --> 00:47:25,786
we'll put a link in the show notes just to
make sure that people can

1160
00:47:25,786 --> 00:47:28,259
get access to the book on where to buy it
and everything.

1161
00:47:27,992 --> 00:47:30,568
Yep. Yep. Cool. All right. Thanks,

1162
00:47:28,259 --> 00:47:30,893
Awesome. Okay, thanks

1163
00:47:29,509 --> 00:47:30,509
Awesome.

1164
00:47:29,645 --> 00:47:30,645
Okay. Thank you.

1165
00:47:30,568 --> 00:47:31,568
guys.

1166
00:47:30,893 --> 00:47:31,893
guys.

1167
00:47:31,468 --> 00:47:33,279
Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Tristan.

1168
00:47:33,279 --> 00:47:37,561
And thank you, Josh, for joining us on
today's episode of the Beyond Jaws
podcast.

1169
00:47:37,561 --> 00:47:40,822
What a great book. I'm looking forward to
diving into this one.

1170
00:47:40,822 --> 00:47:44,203
~ it it seems like a fun book,

1171
00:47:44,203 --> 00:47:46,384
not just like your regular textbook.

1172
00:47:46,384 --> 00:47:49,746
It's it seems like it's a little bit of
everything for everybody,

1173
00:47:49,746 --> 00:47:53,417
which which I think is is is really great
for a textbook.

1174
00:47:53,417 --> 00:47:55,208
It's thick, it's got a hardcover,

1175
00:47:55,208 --> 00:47:57,569
but it's not really your traditional
textbook.

1176
00:47:57,569 --> 00:47:59,750
And I think a lot of people are going to
enjoy it.

1177
00:48:00,051 --> 00:48:01,724
Learning about the sharks that are in this
book.

1178
00:48:02,196 --> 00:48:07,600
Yeah, I think it's even though it's kind
of designed for for for you know ~
classes,

1179
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,452
coursework and stuff, if you're j if
you're a young person,

1180
00:48:10,452 --> 00:48:14,955
you're you're enthusiastic and you want to
know just about general shark biology,

1181
00:48:14,955 --> 00:48:16,946
this is really a good book to get.

1182
00:48:16,946 --> 00:48:19,312
I mean, it's really it's it's definitely
geared.

1183
00:48:19,312 --> 00:48:23,451
I mean, it's it's it's it's ~ I don't know
what the exact age group group,

1184
00:48:23,451 --> 00:48:25,522
but I think if you're an advanced high
school student,

1185
00:48:25,522 --> 00:48:26,522
certainly a

1186
00:48:25,963 --> 00:48:26,963
Yeah.

1187
00:48:26,394 --> 00:48:30,326
college student, but even like I said even
an advanced ~

1188
00:48:30,976 --> 00:48:34,018
high school student who wants to learn
about sharks or have a good something that

1189
00:48:34,018 --> 00:48:36,730
could even be a good reference book for
you later on because you can pick

1190
00:48:36,810 --> 00:48:39,572
you can if you hear some topic comes up
you're not familiar with,

1191
00:48:39,572 --> 00:48:42,854
this would be a good book to to pick up
and to and to read.

1192
00:48:42,854 --> 00:48:45,516
And I think it's so I would say again,

1193
00:48:45,516 --> 00:48:46,787
obviously we're recommending it.

1194
00:48:46,787 --> 00:48:50,219
We had had the authors on here to to share
their story about it.

1195
00:48:50,219 --> 00:48:54,262
And I think it was kind of neat too having
'cause Dan and Dean have both done

1196
00:48:54,262 --> 00:48:59,595
a number of books, you know, now and ~
having Tristan and and Josh come

1197
00:48:59,595 --> 00:49:00,595
on and kind of

1198
00:49:00,619 --> 00:49:04,410
learn a little bit of the ropes about how
to do a how to write a book too,

1199
00:49:04,410 --> 00:49:06,771
approaching the editor, and all that.

1200
00:49:06,771 --> 00:49:10,001
And I just remember myself when I was a
young graduate student,

1201
00:49:10,001 --> 00:49:11,782
did my first book with Leonard Campano.

1202
00:49:11,782 --> 00:49:15,063
I learned a ton of stuff, kind of what
goes on behind the scenes.

1203
00:49:13,888 --> 00:49:15,817
Yeah. Yeah.

1204
00:49:15,063 --> 00:49:16,103
~

1205
00:49:16,183 --> 00:49:18,734
'cause you gotta prep there's a lot that
goes a lot of preparation goes

1206
00:49:18,734 --> 00:49:21,624
on behind the scenes. If you're out there
listening to this episode

1207
00:49:21,624 --> 00:49:23,145
and you're thinking about doing a book,

1208
00:49:23,145 --> 00:49:26,696
there's definitely a pr lot of preparation
that goes on behind the scenes.

1209
00:49:26,696 --> 00:49:28,416
You gotta basically sell the publisher.

1210
00:49:28,916 --> 00:49:29,916
on why they

1211
00:49:29,100 --> 00:49:30,100
Yeah.

1212
00:49:29,419 --> 00:49:30,930
w why anyone would want to buy the book.

1213
00:49:31,616 --> 00:49:33,848
When I think also dividing up with four
people,

1214
00:49:33,848 --> 00:49:36,750
and and I like what what Dan was saying at
the beginning of the

1215
00:49:36,750 --> 00:49:37,971
of the interview where he's like,

1216
00:49:37,971 --> 00:49:41,184
we wanted to mix it up. Like him and Dean
could probably written the book,

1217
00:49:41,184 --> 00:49:43,766
but they want to get some fresh a fresh
new look,

1218
00:49:43,766 --> 00:49:46,939
you know, with with Josh and and Tristan
being a little younger,

1219
00:49:46,939 --> 00:49:49,921
~ and being able to provide their
perspective.

1220
00:49:49,921 --> 00:49:55,326
you know, ~ obviously Josh is is a great
professor and and lecturer,

1221
00:49:55,326 --> 00:50:00,190
~ and and does the the the mook shark.

1222
00:49:59,660 --> 00:50:00,660
Sharkboat.

1223
00:50:00,588 --> 00:50:01,739
Shark Mook ~

1224
00:50:01,368 --> 00:50:02,368
Yeah.

1225
00:50:01,919 --> 00:50:06,042
classes and stuff like that. So he's he's
got a a wide range of

1226
00:50:06,263 --> 00:50:08,964
of audiences that he's been able to teach
that to.

1227
00:50:08,964 --> 00:50:11,557
And Tristan with the shark behavior
background,

1228
00:50:11,557 --> 00:50:16,730
I think is is is kind of a nice compliment
to to Dean and and and Dan,

1229
00:50:16,730 --> 00:50:18,622
who know quite a bit, you know,

1230
00:50:18,622 --> 00:50:20,323
in in terms of their experience and
everything.

1231
00:50:20,323 --> 00:50:23,386
~ so I thought that was kind of cool to
even divide it up between,

1232
00:50:23,386 --> 00:50:25,798
you know, four four people, you know,

1233
00:50:25,798 --> 00:50:26,798
and to get

1234
00:50:26,454 --> 00:50:27,454
their perspective

1235
00:50:26,943 --> 00:50:27,943
yeah.

1236
00:50:27,255 --> 00:50:30,978
and everything and really mix it up and
provide that their different perspectives

1237
00:50:31,399 --> 00:50:33,110
on on how to approach this book.

1238
00:50:33,110 --> 00:50:36,023
So I th I'm sure it it it probab it made
it fresh,

1239
00:50:36,023 --> 00:50:38,125
especially being a second edition.

1240
00:50:38,125 --> 00:50:40,307
It's a lot to look up to to the first
edition.

1241
00:50:40,307 --> 00:50:43,570
~ and so it's it's it's good that they're
able to get it done.

1242
00:50:44,033 --> 00:50:47,235
Yeah, I was thinking I was when I saw the
book come out here,

1243
00:50:47,235 --> 00:50:49,966
I I was I was aware of it from talking to
some of the guys,

1244
00:50:49,966 --> 00:50:54,999
Josh and and I think Dean I knew I was
aware of the book coming out.

1245
00:50:54,999 --> 00:50:57,480
And I think I think Dan might have even
mentioned it to us a couple

1246
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,092
of years ago when he was on that he was
gonna be working on the next edition

1247
00:51:01,092 --> 00:51:02,092
of this. And

1248
00:51:01,399 --> 00:51:02,399
Yeah.

1249
00:51:02,173 --> 00:51:04,014
and so it was really good to it's really
good.

1250
00:51:04,014 --> 00:51:07,576
And I really encourage people listening
out there to check into the book

1251
00:51:07,576 --> 00:51:08,686
if it's something if you're you know,

1252
00:51:08,686 --> 00:51:11,688
if you're again if you're somebody who
just wants to have a reference book.

1253
00:51:12,096 --> 00:51:13,096
Or if a young

1254
00:51:12,193 --> 00:51:13,193
Yeah.

1255
00:51:12,627 --> 00:51:15,592
person wants to learn something about
shark biology and ecology,

1256
00:51:15,592 --> 00:51:16,592
~

1257
00:51:16,001 --> 00:51:17,001
Yeah.

1258
00:51:16,314 --> 00:51:18,518
the fossil record, this is an excellent
book.

1259
00:51:18,518 --> 00:51:20,561
I just can't recommend it enough.

1260
00:51:20,561 --> 00:51:23,647
And ~ so really, really urge you urge you
to go get it.

1261
00:51:23,647 --> 00:51:25,170
Yeah.

1262
00:51:24,084 --> 00:51:25,266
Absolutely. Absolutely.

1263
00:51:25,266 --> 00:51:29,315
~ so we're going to put links to all of
their socials so that they can

1264
00:51:29,315 --> 00:51:31,950
you can get access to and get in touch
with them if you need to.

1265
00:51:31,950 --> 00:51:35,257
~ and then of course, ~ Dave, if people
want to get a hold of you,

1266
00:51:35,257 --> 00:51:36,257
how would they do so?

1267
00:51:36,366 --> 00:51:39,789
you ~ la Lost Shark Guy on Instagram is
probably the best way.

1268
00:51:39,789 --> 00:51:44,352
And ~ please go there and subscribe and
also check out my YouTube channel

1269
00:51:44,352 --> 00:51:48,185
at Lost Shark Guy. and check out the
series that Andrew and I have been doing
with

1270
00:51:48,185 --> 00:51:51,057
Denise Sotomayor on us searching for lost
sharks,

1271
00:51:51,057 --> 00:51:55,641
extinct or alive. It's a documentary
series about our journey to find find lost

1272
00:51:55,641 --> 00:51:57,362
sharks. So appreciate

1273
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:57,640
Yeah.

1274
00:51:57,362 --> 00:51:58,362
that.

1275
00:51:58,011 --> 00:52:01,564
And of course, subscribe to this channel
if you're watching this on YouTube,

1276
00:52:01,564 --> 00:52:05,297
Beyond Jaws Pod, and and of course we're
on their Instagram at Beyond Jaws Pod.

1277
00:52:05,297 --> 00:52:08,550
Dave, always fun to do this with you and
and

1278
00:52:06,722 --> 00:52:08,477
Yeah. Yep.

1279
00:52:08,550 --> 00:52:10,482
to get the you know three people on,

1280
00:52:10,482 --> 00:52:14,265
almost four people on to have a ~ quite a
a busy room in the interview,

1281
00:52:14,265 --> 00:52:15,556
in the interview cutting floor.

1282
00:52:15,556 --> 00:52:17,228
So it's a lot of fun to be able to do
that.

1283
00:52:17,228 --> 00:52:19,330
~ and everybody like you know,

1284
00:52:19,330 --> 00:52:22,643
Dan, Tristan, Josh, really appreciate you
guys coming on and Dean,

1285
00:52:22,643 --> 00:52:24,274
of course, for trying to unfortunately
you're

1286
00:52:24,662 --> 00:52:27,063
Your internet wasn't as good, but we'll
get you next time,

1287
00:52:27,063 --> 00:52:30,986
I promise. ~ and we wanna thank you guys
for listening continuously all

1288
00:52:30,986 --> 00:52:34,919
the time and your support. It's always
great to to be able to provide these shows

1289
00:52:34,919 --> 00:52:36,530
for you. So thank you so much.

1290
00:52:36,530 --> 00:52:40,102
This has been another exciting episode of
the Beyond Jaws podcast from Dave and I.

1291
00:52:40,102 --> 00:52:42,834
Have a great night. Talk to you next time
in conservation.