Stranded at Sea, Sent After a Shark: Dr. Pilar Blanco-Parra's Wild Road to Shark Science

0:00 A lot of people listen or watch this podcast for the stories of people who come on and have great adventures and new discoveries and things like that. But I gotta tell you, you're in for a treat today if that's why you came, because the stories that we are going to hear on this interview with Pillar Blanco, they're out of this world. You're gonna love it. I can't wait. Let's start the show because this is gonna be a lot of fun. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Beyond Jaws Podcast. I am your co-host, Andrew Lewin, with my co-host, Dr. David Ebert. Dave, are you ready for a fun and exciting episode? Yes, I am.

0:42 What else can I say? Determined. I am ready. Let's do this. This is, this is one heck of a show. we have great guests on. We try always have a really good shows, but once in a while we just have someone on that just like, just jumps out at you. Yeah. And this was one of those shows with Pillar. Yeah. it was a phenomenal show, and I don't know what to say, Andrew. Like, let's just let her roll, man. Let's do it. Let's do this. Let's just let her rip. All right. So here is the interview with Pillar Blanco. Enjoy, and we will talk to you after. Hey Pillar, welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast. Are you ready to talk about sharks? Yes, I'm ready. Right. Ah, I love it. Thank you for having me here.

1:23 You bet. You bet. Awesome. Awesome. Well, welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast, where we have a great guest today who's also one of my favorite people. and I actually had not seen this person for several years until we recently reconnected at the Sharks International in Colombo, Sri Lanka. We have Dr. Maria Pillar Blanco-Para, who's a marine ecologist and elasmobranch biologist and conservationist. She's also an associate professor in the Department of Marine and Earth Sciences at Florida Gulf Coast University. Pillar holds a PhD in marine sciences and limnology from the National Autonomous University of Mexico, and also a, a master's and a, bachelor of science degree. Her bachelor's degree was from the Jorge Tadeo Lozano University in Bogotá, Colombia, where she's originally from, Colombia.

2:06 and with more than two decades of international experience in marine science, her research focuses on fisheries biology, elasmobranch ecology, and the conservation of sharks, rays, and other marine megafauna. Her research also integrates telemetry, stable isotopes, BRUVS, and fisheries data to understand population dynamics and inform conservation strategies in data-limited regions. Her career has taken her across Colombia, Mexico, Ecuador, the United Arab Emirates, and the United States to conduct field research in diverse marine environments, including the Galapagos, the Gulf of California, the Mexican Caribbean, Alaska, and the Gulf of Mexico. has led and collaborated on research projects involving shark and ray ecology and conservation, fisheries and telemetry.

2:49 She's worked extensively with universities, government agencies, NGOs, fishing communities, and international research networks. She's also contributed to the global shark and ray conservation efforts through her work with the IUCN Shark Specialist Group in Central America and in the Caribbean. Her academic contributions include more than 40 peer-reviewed publications, book chapters, and technical reports. Beyond research, she's passionate about teaching and mentoring the next generation of marine scientists, and connecting scientific knowledge with practical conservation challenges. Her current work at the Florida Gulf Coast University focuses on understanding and conserving sharks and rays in Southwest Florida, while continuing collaborations throughout Mexico and the wider Caribbean.

3:29 Pillar is extremely accomplished researcher, educator, conservationist, and it would take me 20 minutes to go through all of her accomplishments, but rather than me talking about her, and singing her praises, we'll hear directly from her since we have her on the show as our guest today. And with that, Pillar, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. I'm very glad to be here, and I feel very honored for this invitation. Um, I'm really happy to share here my story and whatever- Awesome … about sharks, and talk about sharks all tonight. That's great. Love it. That's great. Love it. It's better… That's great. So I'll ask, start off with the first question we always ask the guests is, how'd you get interested in sharks and rays and, uh, marine science?

4:12 Well, that is, a really good question that I, pretty much doesn't have, like, the answer. It's kind of- … very, it's weird because, you know, I'm from Bogotá, and, well, Bogotá is between mountains, and we don't have any ocean closer. But I don't know. I was thinking about how I connect with the ocean, and I think it was once when I was, like, 15 years, my parents took me to a, trip to the Caribbean in Colombia. So it was a route, round trip, and then a road trip. And then we go to, I don't know if you know, the Caribbean coast of Colombia, but the Tayrona, that is a national park there that is very beautiful.

4:58 And I remember, that we went to La Guajira, that is the northestmost, most part of Colombia, and it's a desert and it's a very isolated place. And there, I remember, uh, we camped in the beach, and then we stay there with the people that is, Indigenous people from there that are the Wayuu people. And we stay there, and they were fishing all the mornings, and I was waking up, like, just in front of this beautiful place. That actually was the first time I get, sharks as food because they catch sharks there to use that for food.

5:39 So, I think that was the moment that put like, the seed in my heart. And then when I was in high school, I just said, "I want to be a marine biologist, and there is no other thing I want to be in my life." And was, like, uh, one decision I made that at that point, and was really hard for me because the marine biology was, uh, uh, the only university that has this career in Colombia was a private university, so very expensive university. But I was like, "No, I just want to be marine biology, and there is not a chance that I change this." And, well, I was fortunate my parents support me and help me to get this goal.

6:25 And I remember when I was in the interview to get into the university I was with now my best friend. She was there, and when they ask us the same question like, "Why you want to be a marine biologist?" I remember she said, "Oh, no, all my life I was swimming. I live in the coast, and I used to dive. And I said, "Oh my God. I don't have anything to say." Like, oh, I just have this feeling in my heart like I just want to be a marine biologist. I really don't know how that goes there, but I think that experience when I was a teenager was what put this seed inside and said.

7:09 So then after that, really I tried in some parts of my career to change, because the, like family and looking for new, other opportunities, but I said, "No, I can't do anything different than this. I just want to work in the ocean and do this, research and share my passion for the ocean with others." So yes, it's very weird, but I think because I know that there is a lot of stories of people that all their lives they were connected with the ocean, but that is not my case. It's just something that was inside of me and then just, put me there.

7:53 Yeah. Was the university located close to the ocean? No, actually the university was in Bogotá also. Interesting. Oh, interesting. Yes. We started, uh, marine biology in Bogotá, we have three years in Bogotá with the general courses and all the basic like stuff. And then we should move to Santa Marta, that is in the Caribbean in Colombia. So the university has a campus there, and we moved there when I moved to Santa Marta to finish, the last two years of the degree, uh, was the second time I was in the sea, like- Wow … in front of the ocean. Wow.

8:33 And so that was really, different from others, right? but was really nice. Santa Marta was a very, it's a very beautiful place in the Caribbean, so we have a lot of courses there. like we have the sea right there, so we go out a lot and it was really, really nice to be there. Now when, at this point, had you decided you wanted to do sharks and rays, or were you still just more marine biology? I actually, fall in love with sharks when I was, like, in my, third year before I moved to Santa Marta because we took the vertebrates course. And our professor at that point, the last project of the course was a presentation of one of the groups of vertebrates, marine vertebrates.

9:22 Uh, she actually, uh, was like a raffle, like we should pick a paper with the group that we will, uh, prepare the presentation. And then I was crossing my fingers like, "Oh, I want the sharks." I don't know. I like sharks. Sharks are scary, but I like to know more about sharks, so… And actually, I get that paper. Yeah. So, in that presentation, when I was preparing that presentation was when I should read a lot about the sharks and especially the, morphological characters, how we can identify the sharks, and everything for the presentation. She gave us, like, uh, some topics that we should cover for our group.

10:06 And at that moment was when I fall in love. Like I say, "Oh, my God, this group is really interesting. It's a very old group. How can they survive all this time? All the different species." And yes, was like, "Oh, my God, this is very interesting. I want to know more about sharks," right? And then I moved to, Santa Marta, and in the last year of the undergrad program, we have a class that we should prepare a project during the semester, and then I said to my classmates, I want to do something with sharks." But we don't have anybody working on sharks in the Caribbean, in Colombia at that point.

10:52 So I, talked with my, professor at that moment, and I told her, "Hey, I want to do something with sharks, fisheries," because I have reviewing, uh, some of the FAO, like, reports, obviously the Compagno books. And so I said, "Oh, no, I want to know about the fisheries here of sharks." But I really didn't know if there is any fishery of sharks there in Colombia. But I said, "Oh, I want to go- To the fishing camps and see if they catch sharks and ask them. And so we planned to do this, project and thanks to my professor at that moment, she said, "Okay, let's do that.

11:36 I don't know anything about that." So we have an external advisor and she works more in fisheries, so we contact her. We were a group of three three girls. And then, uh, we start preparing this. So during the semester we should write the proposal, and then do all the sampling and getting the data, and at the end of the semester we should pre-present what we do, during the semester. So that was my first research on sharks. Actually, I present that result in my first conference in Mexico when I moved to Mexico to do my master.

12:17 and actually I have a very good story about that, experience because we were trying to find somebody that to give us advice, and we have our ichthyology professor that is really good ichthyologist, but he didn't work on sharks basically. So we should read a lot of papers. At that point, my English was not really good, and all the papers were in English, so I should translate everything and then read it to understand and get all the information. So we were able to contact some fishers, and we got a very good relationship with them, and so they allow us to measure the sharks.

12:57 most of the sharks they fish were like deep water sharks. and they use long lines, to catch other fishes, but they have sharks as bycatch. And then so at the end of the semester, we planned to go with them to see how they fish. So three girls with three fishers in a boat, and then we go outside. It was really nice. The day was beautiful, but at the end when we were going back, the engine just broke in the middle of the ocean. And we were really don't prepared. Actually, the boat was without any cover and anything.

13:39 Because it was like day trip. It's supposed to be a day trip and was easy, right? The engine just broke there, and then it's doesn't work more. And we said, "Okay. What we are going to do?" So the fishers broke all the… They have the long line in a… some wood thing, and then he broke that and because he didn't have any paddle or nothing more, so he broke that and built some paddles And start paddling like, four hours trying to get close to the coast so the currents didn't move us, outside.

14:23 So they were, paddling like for 10 hours. And then like around, 10:00 at night, we get to, uh, some place that they can put the anchor and then stay there waiting for somebody to look at us. Wow. In that part of the Caribbean in Colombia, we have a very high mountain that is the Sierra Nevada of Santa Marta. So at night it's really cold and we were in shorts- Oh … wet with sharks in the boat also. The, the sharks also the, the fishers. No, anything to cover us, just one jacket.

15:06 Wow. They have only one. And then so we turn the jacket like every 15 minutes to the three of us, the three girls, the three students, and the fishers cover with, some type of, I don't know how, it's was a like a blanket. So the three teachers were like in, uh, one of the corners of the boat and the three girls in the other with the jacket. And the only light we have was the, uh, echo sound, like the screen. The what? The echo sound. Yeah. That is, was the only light. The only light? So when we hear any sound, we just turn on the echo sound to move it and say, "Hey, we are here.

15:53 Help us." Wow. And, at 3:00 AM in the morning, there came a big boat with lights, so we can see who was in the boat, and they said, "Give us the girls." And we said, "Oh my God." "We don't want to go anywhere." No. And the fisher was like, "Oh, what is happening?" Was in the boat was the director, so like the dean of the campus of the university. They were worried about you. Because when I leave my house, that morning, I say m- to my, at that point, my boyfriend, "Hey, if I am not back at 6:00, it's because something happened."

16:35 Right. But j- yeah, was something like I don't know why I decide to tell him that, but was something that just pop up and I said that. So at 6:00 he said, "Hey, Pillar is not back." So he called our professor and said, "Hey, the girls are at the sea, and She is not back, so something's happened." So, uh, they start moving around and then the director of the university, of the this campus, uh, have a big boat, so they goes out and start the search for us. So was a really Nice, like, fun adventure now, but Yeah … at that moment was very scary.

17:20 But yeah, that, that was- It's a good story, but that, yeah, that is scary. Yes. Yeah. But it's one of my best stories about sharks, and we were there with the sharks and the fishers. So was my first research on sharks, so now I say, okay, I have all the big experience doing research on sharks. That is the one of my best stories about my research. That, that's- That's too funny … that's a great way to start off your research career. Yes. I think that was a, a really good test. the experience was really nice because we were able to see how the fishers do the long lines and everything. It was really nice.

18:01 that problems pop up, but, at the end, we were all safe, and thanks- Yeah … uh, to the people that was searching for us. But, um, yes, but it was a really nice experience. And that, that became my first research on sharks. did they send anybody to help them fix the boat after they picked you up? Did they s- No. Actually, they sent… They just pick us up because obviously, the university was really scared because we were students doing- Right … like, something for the- Yeah … university. Yeah. So they were very scared about us. But the fishers, said, "Oh, don't worry for us. Just send somebody tomorrow morning, and we will wait here until they come." Okay.

18:44 So at the other day, like later this day, uh, they sent another boat to help- Oh … the fishers and- Okay them. Yes. So, okay, they didn't just leave the fishers there. They sent somebody to kinda help them fix the boat. Okay. Okay. That's fair enough. Yeah. That's good. It's like- … yeah, they pick you guys up and just leave the fishers there to starve to death out at sea, so. Yeah. that, that- Yes … I, that definitely is one of the best stories I've heard for your first time out there, looking for something. Yes. so you survived this first expedition out there. Okay. So after you survived this whole thing and you had a… Obviously, it didn't deter you from wanting to do this more. where did you go from there now after you finished your degree there?

19:25 After that project, I was more in like, "Oh, no, I want to know more about sharks." And at that point, because the research, because that project, it was focused on fisheries, so I started to read more on the decline of the populations and the concern about the conservation. So I said, "No, I should do something related with biology and getting more data to know more about the species and try to help in the conservation efforts." but then at the end of also of the undergrad program, we should, do like a internship to graduate as a, Some of our classes.

20:05 Once I was in a conference in Ecuador, in Guayaquil, was a, marine conference there, and I met their, guy that works for the CPPS. It's, uh, an organization from the, uh, South Pacific countries. And he was from Colombia, and I was talking with him about sharks and this stuff, and I said, "Oh, I'm looking for an opportunity to do my internship." and he said, "Oh, I have a lot of, friends that worked on shrimp fisheries." And I said, "Ah, shrimps? Mmm. I don't like too much about shrimps." Yeah.

20:47 That's not what you're looking for. Yeah. But I said, "Okay. Well, could be a good experience, right?" So he give me his card, and I said, "Okay. I'm gonna write you back when it's the time to do my internship." And then when I write him, an email, uh, saying, "Okay, this, uh, now, next semester I should do my internship, so I'm looking for an opportunity." And he asked me, what do you want to do, Pillar? Uh, do you want to do something with shrimp farms or you want other things, or you have other things in mind?" And I said, "Oh, yes, I would love to go to Galapagos and do shark research there." And he said, "Okay.

21:33 Give me one week, and I will talk with some people and see if I can find something for you." And one week later, he wrote me up, an email and said, "Okay, Pillar, you are accepted to be a volunteer in the Galapagos, uh, Park, Station to do research there. Uh, so it's everything paid for the Galapagos Park, and you just need to pay your flight, and that's it." So I went to Galapagos, and actually in Shark International, I was talking with, this guy from Ecuador that is working in Galapagos.

22:15 And I told him probably I was the first researcher doing research on sharks in Galapagos because at that moment, that was the, the starting then 2000. So- Mm-hmm. Yeah … in January of 2000, I was there in Galapagos. and so I get there and I met with the director of the national park and he said, "Okay, what do you want to do, Pillar?" And I said, "Okay, I want to work on sharks." "But we don't have anybody here working on sharks." "What?" "But we have sharks here," he said. And I said, "Okay, that's good. It's all what I need." Yeah.

22:56 And so he said, "Okay, I'm gonna…" So the marine protected area, director, go with me and visit some of the place and say… And so they have in the, in Santa Cruz, a creek, like, where a lot of, um, white tip reef sharks were. So they used to stay there during the day and then go out during night to hunt. So he said, "Oh, the closest sharks we have is this shark, so you can do something with this shark." And I said, "Oh, yes, I can do something." So I said, "Okay, I'm gonna think about on a project with these sharks." So he, teach me how to drive a small dinghy boat and say, "Okay, here is the boat.

23:45 There are the sharks, so be free to do whatever you want to do." So I, I planned to do a project on, mm, sharks' behavior, and see how these sharks were using this creek and how much time they spend there, how much sharks are there. And so I just go every day in the morning and sit there in a rock and stay there for all the day taking notes, looking at the sharks. So I, I found other people that, were working on lobsters, so I convinced them to go to dive in that same place at night to see what happened with the sharks, if the sharks were there or not.

24:31 And- Wait, you convinced another student to go and look? Yes. That's awesome. And then we went there and stay, I just took notes all day and that. Uh, my internship was like two months. And so at the end of the first month, there was a call to the park because in other island, there was a shark attacked in a tourist. So they say, "Okay, we need a shark expert." And you know who was a shark expert? Me. Yep. Yep. So I said, "Oh my God, I am a student, right?

25:11 But yes, I'm a shark expert right now." So- Yeah So they said, "Okay, we need you in the boat. Uh, we are going to the place where the attack was and see what happened. We need to identify the shark, um, and see what is the behavior of the shark and what is happening there." I said, "Okay, let's go." So we went to this island this was a big creek where usually the tourist boats goes in and stay there, and they dive inside of this lagoon. And it is like a protected place, but with a lot of, uh, sea lions and a lot of marine life.

25:55 So the attack was in one guy that was snorkeling, but the other part of the group were, underwater diving. S- scuba diving, yeah. So the underwater people saw the shark, like the divers saw the shark, the instructor, and he hit the tank So the shark gets scared and goes up, and just found the guy there and cut this part of the, mouth of the guy that was- wait, so- … there snorkeling okay, so there was one guy snorkeling, and everybody else was scuba diving. Yes. the dive master banged on his tank- Mm-hmm … and the shark attacked the snorkeling guy.

26:37 Yes, because the shark was scared because- Yeah … of sound, and then tried to escape, and then found this guy there. And I think it was like, uh, just, More of a bump … yes, basically. Uh, and was a Galapagos shark, so- Okay. But- … a really big shark … that G- Uh, so at the, at- Well, Galapagos, they can do damage, yeah. Yes. at the next day I was there, and they say, "Okay, Pillar, so here is the diving gear. Let's go there and then try to identify the shark, so we know what is the species, uh, was, responsible for this." And then, so I go dive there.

27:19 it's like- So, ho- … okay … uh, uh, I'm sorry. Let me st- … um, let me stop you there for a second. So they just had this attack. The next day, you're like the student shark expert. They say, "Would you put on the diving gear and go in the water to try to identify the shark?" Yes. But nobody else was going in, just basically you. No, I have another, like, dive master with me. Okay. okay. Yes. Not alone, but Okay … but also s- that was, uh, very scary for me. Like, okay, I, I was- Yeah I was diving, um, there in Galapagos, but was also the first time I saw, like, sharks underwater in Galapagos. Mmm. And yes, I didn't know how to behave, right?

28:03 Right. Uh, with the sharks, and so I was a little- So- … scared about, uh, to go there, but- So, so, so, so let me, let me just to clarify for everybody, when you went diving with the shark to look for the, identify the shark, that was the first time you had ever been diving with sharks? This story just- Yes … keeps getting better, Andrew. This is just awesome. This is, this is one of the greatest stories we've had lately. I, I don't think we've had a more compelling story. Like, this is like, it's got me on the edge of my seat. I'm like, I'm wondering what's happening next. This, this is- Like, this is amazing … this is like a movie. This is- It is literally like this sh- You could make a movie out of this … this should be a movie. I, I, I'm, I'm gonna write my book.

28:44 Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is just great. And then make it right into a movie, 'cause it's gonna- And then they send- … go straight to Netflix … then, yes, they send you in there with another person. And then, yes, with other person, and we were diving there And well, trying to find the sharks, and we saw some sharks, obviously, Galapagos sharks. So we said, "Okay, probably was a Galapagos shark." We don't know, but we are n- for sure that this is the most common species here. There are some here, so that was the end of the story. But yes, at that point, you know, in Galapagos there, there wasn't anybody, like, working on sharks. Even in the Charles Darwin Station, I went there, I was working, uh, well, I have a lot of friends volunteer there, and there wasn't anybody working on sharks.

29:34 So When I was talking with the researcher of, of, um, Ecuador, w- I was, I… Because now, you know, Galapagos is like, oh, there is a lot of- Oh, yeah … research and cool projects with sharks there. Yeah. He said, "Oh my God, I probably was the first to do some research on Galapagos." And I told him, and he said, "Oh, really?" yes, I was there in 2000 doing research on sharks, and that was my second experience with sharks research, and I just fall, e- every time I fall more in love. Uh, it was my first time also that I dived with sharks. I saw the hammerheads there in Galapagos, the white tips, the Galapagos shark, and so that was just the, one of the best experience of my life.

30:22 Those have to be, like, the two of the best first experience with shark stories- Oh, 100% … I've heard back to back. 100%. I don't, I think… we've done over 150 episodes. I've never heard any story like that. That is just phenomenal. It's like- Yeah … it's phenomenal. You definitely gotta write this out somewhere in your biography or something. That's just, like, one of the most incredible stories I've heard. And plus, you're like a pioneer studying sharks in the Galapagos. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And that's your first experience. That's your first experience. First experience. So- Yes … so where do you go fr- Exactly … so where do you go from here now with the Galapagos? After- Then… Well, then after that, I should be back, on Colombia to finalize my undergrad, and then so you're still an undergraduate at this time?

31:04 Yes. You're still an undergrad? Wow. Yes. Oh my God, that- Wow … that fixes… This is an even better story. Yeah. Okay, go- Yes, I, I graduated from marine biology in 2001, so one year after that Because, in Colombia, we, have at that point was five years of classes and then one year of the thesis project. So it's like that- So that's your undergrad. So you do s- in your undergrad, you do six years of school in Colombia. Wow. Yes. Yeah. I don't know right now if that is the same, but at that moment, yes. Yes, we did, uh, six years. I can't think, I can't think of anyone as an undergraduate that had as many wild experiences getting into the shark field as you just described there.

31:55 That's, that's- Yes … that is amazing. okay, so I guess so now you've had all these phenomenal experiences in undergrad. Yes. where do you go from here? What, what'd you do? Was I, uh, I graduate, but I tried to continue doing research on sharks, but as I mentioned, in Colombia, there was not, uh, too many people doing research, so the support to do research was really, like, none. there was no, any support. So I got a project to do my thesis in the Amazonian river fishes, so that was also a really nice experience. So I spent like three months in the middle of the jungle in Colombia, doing ecology of, fishes in one river there in the Amazonian region.

32:40 And there, well, we have some rays. So I started learning about the rays of the rivers, and that was also… So I still in the ichthyology field, that I actually love fishes, all the fishes, but sharks and, and rays- Yeah … are my favorites. Yeah. so yes. And then when I finish, I say, "Okay, I want to continue to study, uh, do some master." And we really don't have any, uh, too many master's programs in Colombia, so I start looking outside. And then at that moment, my sister just moved to Mexico because, uh, work. And so I start thinking about, um, Mexico and say, "Okay, Mexico, it's a big country.

33:25 Well, uh, I actually applied to the National Autonomous University of Mexico. that is the second in Latin America after the ones in Brazil. So, I got to this program, but when I started the master, at that moment, my thoughts were, like, work, do research on shark was, really hard, and there is not too many people. So I think the same when I moved to Mexico. And when I was deciding like, uh, y- when you apply to the master program, you should, pick one of the researchers in the institution to work with. and there was not anybody like working on sharks, but there was some people working on fish, so on fishes.

34:10 So I said, "Okay, just apply to and select somebody that is working on fishes and then we'll see." Eh, so when I get to Mexico to do my master The researcher at that moment that I choose to be my advisor, um, he was doing, research on fish in general, and but the first meeting I had with him, he asked me the same question, "Pillar, what do you want to do?" And I said, "Okay, I want to do research on sharks." And he said, "Oh, hmm, I don't have any project on sharks, but I know somebody that has some projects on sharks. And I am collaborating with people in the National, Fisheries Institute in Mexico, so probably we can get some data from them." So he start this collaboration with these, people in the National Institute of Fisheries in Mexico.

35:13 and he has a very small budget, so he said, "Okay, I just have this budget, my first project was in the master. So the master program in Mexico is two years, uh, because they gave us a scholarship. They gave me a scholarship, and it's only for two years, so you should finish that in two years. So I started my first project, uh, with, the opportunity of, this collaboration with the National Marine, Fisheries, Institution in Mexico. But like a month later, they said, "No, we can't give you the data," so the project is gone. And I said, "Oh no, I need to plan for another project." So my advisor said, "Okay, I have this small budget, and we probably can, I stick in the fisheries, so I said, "Okay, I want to evaluate some fisheries." Uh, and he said, "Oh, I have somebody that was my student working in Oaxaca, He did some research on sharks in Oaxaca, so probably we can go there to do some samplings." And so we started that project, trying to do the reproductive biology of the hammerheads there and taking samples from the features.

36:30 we planned for the first field trip, and then we Get any shark in the field, in the trip. So, I said, "Oh my God, this is not gonna work for two years project." So I started like desperated, like trying to contact more people, and then somebody told me about, uh, Felipe Galván that is in La Paz, and he said, "Oh, you probably should contact him. Probably he has some samples that he can give you, and then you can do your project." So I contact him, and he was, oh, very nice, and he said, "Oh, yes, I have a bunch of, blue shark vertebrae that I need to process, and you can do something, uh, like age and growth in blue sharks." And I didn't… I haven't any experience on, on age and growth, and he also hasn't any experience on doing age and growth.

37:27 But so I started that project, and so I basically have three projects during my master. And then, well, at the end of my first year, I finally started the blue shark project. Uh, so I'm basically… I was in Mexico City, so I should move to La Paz to process all the samples. I do, um, visit, there for a month working day and night processing samples. But, um, at that moment, in the institution, There was another student doing the same but in mako shark, so that we were working together, like trying to figure out how to do that, to process the vertebrae, with the tools we have there.

38:15 And so we basically start from Without any knowledge, and also my advisor, Felipe, he didn't have any knowledge. We have people there that was working on age and growth, but in bony fishes. So they basically know how to manage the data, but not how to process the samples. We did a lot of experiments, uh, staining vertebrate, cutting, and doing everything. Reading papers from Greg Cailliet and all these people, uh, that I after had the opportunity to meet Greg, and that was really nice, and work in his lab.

39:00 But at that point, I have any, like, knowledge about that. So, uh, that was my master project. And at the end, that goes very well and ends in a paper, and we get very good data and learn a lot about age and growth. Yeah. And so I would love to continue with fisheries. And at the end of my master, I started my PhD right away. Right. But at that moment, I already know Felipe and other people working on sharks, so I still like connecting with the people, that was doing the research in Mexico. And I think Felipe and Oscar, uh, at that point was the ones that were doing the most of the research- Right … uh, at that moment, and growing all the research on sharks and rays.

39:50 So I did my PhD, uh, with Felipe again. Mm-hmm. And doing… but I was focused on the fisheries, like fisheries biology of the banded guitarfish. Right. And that, was what I did for my PhD. Now when you and I first met is you came up to Moss Landing in 2005 to work on… Now were you, were you working on the, uh, uh, banded guitarfish, Zapteryx exasperata? Yes. Okay. Yes. I was working at that moment. I have already finished my master. Eh, so actually, uh, when I came there, I was interested in learning more about the- Yeah … age and growth process, because at that moment, I would, like to include the age and growth also in my project, PhD project.

40:35 But then there was a lot of things to do. I did, stable isotopes, uh, stomach contents to know all the trophic ecology of the species. Then I did all the reproductive, like h- histology and all the stuff to know all the reproductive parameters of the And I did also all the morphometrics, like, uh, relationships To identify the specie and to, identify the parts of the specie and try to estimate the total length of the specie. So was a lot, and so I should, leave behind the age and growth.

41:16 But then, well, actually I have a student that she finished that part. I actually processed all the vertebrae, but I didn't have time to, like, go through the reading and process all the data. Yeah. Yeah. So one of my students now- Y- could she was the one that did that. Yeah, I was gonna say, you did, you did the first really detailed study on that species, this, this, uh, banded guitarfish, Zapteryx exasperata. Mm-hmm. And it was like, I know it was one of those species just people listening to the show, like it was, especially young people, like this was a species kind of common. We know it gets caught in fisheries, but nobody knew anything about until you pursued it for a PhD. Mm-hmm. And we try to, encourage people, like young students starting out, find something that nobody else has worked on, like you did.

42:00 Exactly. And then- Yeah. Mm-hmm … and it has an impact. Mm-hmm. Yes, that was a really good, uh, research because there was some studies in the Pacific Coast of Baja, like west coast of Baja California. But in the Gulf of California, there was any study about the banded guitarfish. And then based on the reproductive parameters comparing these two regions, we identified that there was some difference on the size, on the reproductive cycle. And then after my PhD, there was a student that did, uh, some, genetics, population genetics on the specie, and she identify that basically there is different populations.

42:46 And actually, it is very interesting because seems like there is, also some difference along the Pacific coast- Mm-hmm … that anybody, like, stick with this research, but I think it's very interesting about this specie because we found this specie in other places in the Pacific, but seems like in the middle of Mexico there is a genetic population that is very different, have something, like, it's very interesting. So the species is very interesting, I think, after me, there was another student that did the Asian route but in the Pacific Coast. So m- then my student that is working right now in the Asian route in the Gulf of California, but there is not too much, uh, research- Yeah … on this specie.

43:32 Yeah, yeah. so after you get your PhD, where did you go from there? at the end of my PhD, I have a baby. Basically. Okay. I was pregnant. I was pregnant in my last, like nine month of my PhD. Actually, I defend my PhD, and a week after I have my baby. I, I- Are you kidding me? Yes. I, A- Andrew, cor- correct me, but I think you're… Now, Pillar, you're like the third woman we've had now- Yes … in the last few weeks. We had Clova, and we had, Chris Dudgeon, who are all- Yeah … wrote up their PhDs while they were pregnant. And I'm sure there's- Yeah … a lot of young women out there thinking like, "How the hell did you do that?" Um- Yes I married, in 2003.

44:24 We were trying to finish our PhD, but I said, "Oh, no, I'm getting so old." I want to having babies. so we decide to have a baby at the end, like, in the last year of my PhD. was really good that I finish, like I defend- Mm and then a week a- after- Yeah … I just, I was free from my PhD, so relief. And then I have a baby. Wow. But let me, let me … Uh, we've asked, we have asked the other women, too, that, that have gone through the similar thing. Like, at that point, you're in your last year, you're doing all your writing. It's a lot of thinking. Mm. It's a lot of, like, going through the analysis and stuff. Mm. And at the same time is you're developing this baby in your body and- Mm-hmm all your body's, like, going through different things.

45:10 How did you focus? Like, what did you do to be able to- I- stay focused on finishing that PhD? I really, don't know. Like- … was I working? Because, you know, at that moment, I really, didn't know a lot of the things that were happening to me. Now, you know that there is a lot of research that said that when womens get pregnant, even the brain starts, like, doing the process different. Um, so I really just was, like, too focused on finish af- it, because I want to finish before I give birth. So, yes, I, just was, like, very focused on that, trying that.

45:55 I think that was what I, I did. I- Incredible … uh, also, uh, Felipe helped me a lot. Like, he was pressing me, but not too much. One of my chapters of my thesis, accepted as for publication, so that helped me a lot to have only the focus on finish the main document, right? And yes, but I think I was thinking about to finish before she was born, and so I think I focused all my time on that and trying to do that. Actually, I just, uh, when I ask, uh, like, fill all the paperwork, you know, that we need to finish and defend the, the thesis, uh, I was pressing the university to know I need to do this right now, because if not, if wasn't, possible, I really don't know what I w- I, I would do, would do.

46:53 Because, to have a baby and defend a thesis is even harder. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. 100%. So- Oh, yeah … I, I said, "No, it, it, when I have her inside, I think I can manage that, but if she's outside- While she's out … I don't know what is happening." She was very patient- Yeah … I guess, considering it was like, what? A li- week, you said a week later you had the, you had her? Yes. Actually, we have a joke, when I started my defend, I say, "Okay, if they ask me something that is, I don't know the answer, I will start saying, 'Oh my God.' " "This baby is coming." So I have my- Yeah. My- They are not gonna mess with you.

47:34 Yeah. Exactly. I said, "Okay." I think that, that helps me to, for them- Yeah like, "Oh, Pillar is almost." Oh, man. Oh, man. She's gonna have a baby here, so please be Careful with her. Yeah. Oh my God, that's a- Yes … you just have, like, one of the most amazing stories we've had. Like- Yeah … we have a lot of, we have a lot of amazing stories on here, but you've got, like, a few of the best ones all in one episode here. It's like, geez. so like, yeah, okay, so you finished so obviously you finished your degree. So I finished my PhD- Yeah … and then I actually- I just wanna, s- let me just ask, you know, your husband's also from Colombia, but you guys actually met in Mexico, right? Yes. he's also from Colombia.

48:15 No, we met in Colombia because he also studied at the same university. Oh, okay. Okay. But we never date in Colombia. we just have our lives there in Colombia. Right. Yeah. And then when we, were in the same master program in Mexico, he actually came to Mexico one year after, so I have been- Oh, okay I have started, at that moment my master. Yeah. And so at that moment we, like- Okay we encounter. And then we- Yeah. Oh, it's just inter- it was… Yeah, it was just interesting. You were in Mexico and you meet your husband, who's also from Colombia. It's just- Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah … you know, it just seems kind of, it's just kind of a, an interesting, interesting thing. so after you- Yeah, and- Yeah.

48:55 And so, so obviously, so you guys are married at this point and you have a baby, and now you guys have just finished your PhDs. Then what, what, then what hap- Without, without a scholarship. Without a scholarship or job. Basically without money. No money. A job or anything. Yeah. Yes, actually at, at that moment, uh, my husband also, he defend, two weeks later, so-… he actually, uh, defend in the same year, our PhD. He works on marine mammals. Okay. And he got a, a position, an, like, assistant teaching position there at the University of Baja California Sur. in the meantime, when I was finishing my PhD, I started conversation with my advisor and thinking about a postdoc so I applied to a, postdoc there in Mexico to do the postdoc, with Felipe basically.

49:51 Uh, and because Felipe was in a different institution. I did my, my PhD in the National Autonomous University of Mexico, and he was in CCMR. Uh, so he… I can apply to a postdoc in CCMR, and I got accepted. So We talk about the plan and he gave me like six months to start so I can stay with my baby six months and then I started my postdoc after that. Um, the postdoc was more, obviously on sharks research but more to reinforce the master program that they have there to teach some classes and develop some new projects on sharks.

50:35 Uh, and then after like three months after that, uh, there was a position in other institution, uh, C- CIPNOR, that is another research institution there in La Paz, and that was for a technician position in, uh, the fish ecology laboratory. And I applied to that and I got the job. So I quit my postdoc to got this position there. But this position was more focused on fishes in general. They want me to establish a ancient growth laboratory there, so I help them to start this part of the laboratory.

51:17 So I was in the this position and my husband was applying to other positions and at that moment my sister lives in Mexico, um, so we went to visit her, um, for vacations my brother-in-law works in Procter & Gamble. I don't know if you know this company. Mm-hmm. Company, yep. But it's a very big company. Yep. at that moment, you know, we were a little desperate, like to find a job because the baby and, and so trying to find a job for my husband basically because I have the postdoc but als- well this position but also we need some- something more.

51:59 So my brother-in-law suggest that, "Oh, you can apply to Procter & Gamble." I said, "Oh What will do a marine biologist in Procter & Gamble? Like you do shampoo and soap and I don't know what I can do that there. And he said, "No, we are looking for people from different backgrounds, and what we need more is like the creativity of the people, leadership, and that kind of thing. So apply. We have a position right now, and then you can apply." And but he said, eh, you, not your husband because we need m- m- more womans like in the company." Mm. So that is an opportunity. And I said, "Oh, no, I don't want to apply to a engineer position, like what I'm gonna do." But you know, we have a baby, so I said, "Oh, probably.

52:50 So let's do that and see what happen." So I applied to that position, and I got it. Mm. So I said, "Oh my God." Okay, so I start thinking about to leave marine biology to do that because my family, you know. And at the, like I was thinking about that position and say, "Okay, I'm gonna accept that because, well, we have a family. We need to see after, so we need to do something." So at that moment, I accept that position that a month after that, my husband got a position on the University of, Quintana Roo in the Mexican Caribbean.

53:34 Okay. So obviously, I said, "Oh my God, phew." I am gonna quit this position, and then we moved to… From La Paz, I quit also the position I got in the research, institution there, and then we moved to the Caribbean. And at that moment, I got pregnant again, so, I say, "Okay, it is a good moment because my husband has a job, so now I can dedicate a little more time to my other baby." My girl was one year and a half, I got the other baby, so it was a little hard. So at that moment, I, just put, stand by my career for a year and a half maybe.

54:18 But, you know, I always was, like, trying to do other things. I never probably told you that I am a, childbirth educator also. Yeah. So when I get pregnant and was in maternity, I would love to help other women to- Mm-hmm … to have a safe birth and, like, all this stuff, breastfeeding and everything. So I start studying that in this year and a half, and I get certified as a doula, so a companion for the birthing woman- Mm-hmm and breastfeeding, assessor, and childbirth educator.

55:02 And so I start during that year, I was, like, working on that. I have a company, a childbirth center there in Chetumal. But then, I said, "Oh, no, I want to continue with marine biology. I don't want to do this," uh- Mm-hmm … li- like anything different. I just- Yeah. Yeah … love marine biology. Right. Yeah. I love just love- Yeah … sharks. And then, so I go back and then start looking for a position. I worked also in a sc- high school, uh, teaching there, but also that was just was driving me crazy. Yeah. Because there's these teenagers, a lot of teenagers.

55:43 So I said, "Oh, no, I prefer the sharks." Yeah. "So I need to go back." So I was working hard, like, trying to find some projects, and then at that moment there in Mexico pop up a new opportunity that the government open a position that was for the federal government, like researchers. the name of that position was Researchers from Mexico, that basically they were contracting people, uh, And, like, putting them in some institutions, so collaborating with some institutions to develop research, basically. So I applied to that position, um, uh, and I got the position to work in the University of Quintana Roo.

56:32 Okay. and then that was uh, like, 2015 That was when I go back, like, basically to manage my own research projects. And start all the project in the Mexican Caribbean that also was very little information about sharks and rays there. So I started from the scratch, basically Focus more in fisheries, but in the Caribbean we don't have, uh, too much fisheries of sharks like in the Pacific. So I started thinking about in ecology and starting doing more citizen science, project At that moment I said, "Okay. How can I get information without funds," basically.

57:15 and I said, "Okay. The people have a lot of knowledge about the sea here because there is a big industry of divers and fishers, so I can start asking people for information about where the sharks are there, what type of sharks, and how frequently they saw the sharks." And so I started this citizen science program, uh, getting, not only the, like, the previous knowledge, but also training some people to get data, like divers, to get data from the sharks in the Caribbean. And then I started this project in the Caribbean, and since that I was developing the research.

57:57 Yeah. and now you've just started a job in Florida at Gulf Coast. Yes. And so- That's a big move … that's a huge move. Um- Yes. Mm-hmm … and, and you're, I, I presume you're gonna be setting up a shark research program there now? Yes, basically. Okay. I am the first, the researcher in this university. Not in Florida, you know, because in Florida- Of course. Right. Yeah … there is a lot of, uh, several different researchers in almost all the universities. But here at the university, um, I am the first one working on sharks. And obviously, yes, this move, it was really more related with where we want to, grow up our kids.

58:38 So we want to move to a safest place for them. So we start applying for jobs. basically, when I begin applying for jobs here in the US, I was trying, but I, I, you know that it's hard to find something, and I know that here there is a lot of people with PhDs and with a very nice career, a lot of research, um, because, well, we have here a lot of resources. So that I say, "Okay, I should try." I think that is what I have been doing all the time, like just trying.

59:19 Yeah. And then I just apply and apply and apply. And then I finally got an interview here in Florida Gulf Coast University, and I was… I- when I came to the interview because they invite me here first in March 2024, and I, just visualize, "Okay, this is going to be my place." And then I got the position. And yes, we just recently moved in February 2025 to- Yeah … Florida. So- Wow … a big move. Yes, a big change. This open other opportunities because, even if these years we have a lot of, um, changes here in the country about- Yeah … the fundings and everything.

1:00:07 Yeah. Yeah. It's be- it's better than what we have in Mexico- Yeah, right obviously, and Latin America. Right. Yeah. So now I have a lot of funds and- Mm-hmm … well, not a lot, but- Yeah … you know, a lot of opportunities to apply to- Yeah … several different funds. Yeah. And, and yeah, so now I am trying to start my research program here, trying to collaborate. I have a lot of collaborators in Mote, especially. I'm collaborate with people in other institutions. I'm trying to find my niche, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Well- Uh, so I am starting more, doing research on rays because I think that i- where- That's- that is where- That's where the ac- … we need more information … that's where the action's at, rays.

1:00:53 Exactly. K- Kinda rays. So- Yeah. Yeah … so I am starting from that. now I have my first two, graduate students here in- Mm-hmm. Nice. Great. Great … in the US, so we are building something. And yes, I'm really happy to be here. Well, great. you know, Pillar, well, well, this has been phenomenal. We- we're yet to have you back. Once you get, like, a little bit of time in under your program, I wanna have you back and talk more about as your program's growing. but- Yes … before we go, could you just… What advice would you have for a young person starting out in the field? What, what advice would you have for them? Well, I think, mm, just don't accept a no as an answer.

1:01:35 Don't accept. I like it. Uh, like, all the people it's going to tell you, like, "Oh, this is so hard. Oh, a lot of people is working on that. Don't do that because there is other people working on that." And, you know, sometimes it's true, but sometimes, anybody can do the things as you're gonna do the things. Like, all of us are different, and we have different approaches and different ways to do the things. Even if you are doing the same, it's not the same, right? So just don't accept, uh, a no as an answer because a lot of people is going to tell you that it's not possible, but- Yeah I know that it's possible if you want to do that.

1:02:18 Um- For sure. that's g- Yeah … that's really great advice. And yeah, well definitely, uh, well, good luck with your new position there, Pillar, and like I said, we'll keep, well, you and I, I'm sure you and I, you and I will be in touch. And, uh, let's, um, we'll plan to have you back once you get your program up and going and hear all about what you're doing. Yes, for sure. For sure. Great. I would love to be here again- Yeah … and have more adventures soon. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. You, you definitely made the highlight reel with today's show. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Definitely. The clips are gonna be fun for this one. Yeah, yeah. but thank you so much for coming on and, and- Thank you sharing your journey with us, and, uh, I'm sure we'll be talking again. Thank you very much, Pillar. Yes. Thank you. I, I enjoyed this. Thank you. We told you Pillar came with some stories. Thank you very much, Pillar, for joining us on today's episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

1:03:01 Dave, like have you heard stories like that before? I- I know you've had some adventures. You've had some adventures- Yeah … during your time as a student, your time as a professional. Like you've gone places. Yeah. You've gone all over the world. Oh, yeah. But these, wow. Uh, and, and I've- Good stories and I've known Pillar for over 20 years. I've known her for a long time. Right. And I just, I'd never heard- She's saving- … some of those stories. She's, uh, yeah, , she was holding back on me. which was a good thing, 'cause it really was today, I was just kinda like, just going like, "Oh my God, I never heard this story before." Right. And, uh, she, and she, and she kept bringing it too. And she just kept- Like story after story- Yeah … after story. Now I have to admit, you know, like I think her and I are very close in age. She might be a little younger than I am. But as a student, after somebody gets hit or injured somehow by a shark.

1:03:49 Thank God it wasn't major. Telling a student to go back in and check out what it was at night. Yeah. like, if you guys are listening and you're a student, don't. Yeah. Don't. Like, there's a refuse. You could refuse if it's not safe. If there's a shark out there that just got spooked and it caused someone injury, whether it meant it or not, and you don't feel safe going back, don't do it. Yeah. Don't go back in. At night, to look for sh-… No. No, no, no, no, no. You don't need to do that. Like, that's, I just wanna say. Yeah. She was brave, and she was adventurous, and that's in her personality, but I would've been like, "Uh, absolutely not. No." But no, yeah, I can totally relate to this, like an undergrad, and it's like, "Sure. I'll go," you know, whatever, and, thinking like, "Well, I guess I am the shark expert," and I guess at that time she thought, "Well, I guess I better go." And she was just an undergrad, too.

1:04:33 You know? Yeah. It's just like, oh well, it's been, like, going in there, and back then when she was doing that, what, 25 years ago, it was like- Yeah she had no idea what she was gonna encounter- Nope … at the Galapagos 'cause nobody was doing- Nothing … anything. There could've been a whole school of, like, tiger sharks or- She had no idea … Gala- I mean, Galapagos- At night, too, right? Yeah, and Galapagos sharks are no, you know, they're- They're big. Oh, yeah, they're, and they're dangerous. those sharks are definitely on the, uh, list of, potentially dangerous sharks. There's a number of, uh, attacks, including fatal attacks, by Galapagos sharks. So- Interesting … yeah, so they're not, they're definitely, uh- Yeah not a, big sort of, "Hey, how's it going?" type of shark. Those are, those c- those are dangerous sharks. Yeah. They're very dangerous. And sending the grad students. So, yeah.

1:05:13 Her, uh- But I'll tell you, like, these stories were a lot of fun. They're very entertaining. Yeah. And I've, I hope everybody who's listening like, enjoyed that. You know, quite the career, too, going from Bogota to Mexico, back to Colombia, to Mexico, back to Colombia, and now in, Florida. In Florida. Starting her own program. Mm-hmm. I'm really excited to see what she's gonna be able to do in that- Yeah … program. Can't wait to have her back. It's a lot of fun. and of course she's so much fun to talk to. Definitely won't be the last time we- No, yeah … we, uh, have her on. and maybe sooner than later, who knows? We'll get a- Yeah … bonus episodes of Story Time with Pillar, I think. Yeah. Uh, if she has- Make it a regular segment … any more of those stories. Yeah, exactly. But Dave, uh, you know, we'll put her socials in the show notes so you can get a hold of her.

1:05:54 Uh, Dave, if people want to get a hold of you, where would you recommend they go? That's, @lostsharkguy on Instagram and Lost Shark Guy on the YouTube channel. please, uh, follow me on Instagram and subscribe on the YouTube channel. It really, uh, helps with the support. on stuff if you do that. And please watch the episodes on Searching for Lost Sharks- Absolutely Extinct or Live that Andrew and I, and Denise Sotomayor are producing. Uh, please check those out and leave a comment. And even for Beyond Jaws, please leave comments for us. We'd like- Yeah … to hear from you. And of course, share it around. Yes. That's what we would love to see. It's documentaries on YouTube. This is the new place to watch documentaries where everybody can get access. Uh, it's a lot of fun, so check them out. Uh, if you guys wanna, if you're watching this on YouTube or you're listening to this on your favorite podcast app, follow, subscribe, whatever you need to do.

1:06:37 Make sure you don't miss out on these episodes because we talk about shark science, shark careers, shark conservation, all the wonderful stuff about sharks. Thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast from Dave and I. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time, and happy conservation.