How Carlos Gauna's Drone Revealed California's Hidden White Sharks

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Imagine being able to watch white sharks
from above the water using a drone.

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That's what our guest today, carlos Gauna
is here to talk about how he discovered

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using drones to monitor great whites,
not only as a safety thing, but just as

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a way to observe these wonderful animals.

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He does this, has a channel also
known as The Malibu Artist, and, uh,

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we have him on the podcast today.

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He talks about his career and how
it turned into going from being a

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photographer and videographer to doing
drone work with great white sharks,

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having a successful YouTube channel.

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We're gonna talk all about how that
happened, and what he does, and

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how he loves it on this episode
of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey, everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting
episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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I'm your co-host, Andrew Lewin, here
with my co-host, Dr. David Ebert,

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also known as the Lost Shark Guy.

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Dave, drone work.

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I've always wanted-
Yeah … to fly a drone.

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Have you ever flown a drone?

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I haven't flown them, but I've been
with people that have flown them.

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and I've seen footage and
stuff, and it's phenomenal.

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It's fun.

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I, I, I wish… there's one of
these little tools now that I

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wished I would've had back in the
day when I was doing my graduate

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studies, watching sevengill sharks.

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Yeah, right.

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Because

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we'd have… Because I would set
up, like, high on, like, some bluffs

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and stuff, and some rocks, and could
watch some of the stuff, but nothing

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like you could get with this drone.

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Yeah.

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And it'd been really fascinating
to watch how those sharks moved

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about and hunted and interacted with
each other from a drone footage.

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Um, and so Carlos, it's, yeah, He's got
some amazing footage- Yeah … on mostly

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white sharks, but he has other things too.

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He gets dolphins- Yeah … and other
marine, mega marine fauna out there.

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And, uh, I think, we'll, we'll talk to
him today about seeing all the cool stuff.

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I don't wanna give everything away,
'cause, uh, it's a pretty, it's a

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fascinating story, and I'm really hoping
everybody's gonna enjoy today's, uh, show.

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Absolutely.

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Before we get into it, I just have to
say, like, can you imagine flying a drone

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back in the '80s, in the '70s and '80s?

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People would've thought
it was a UFO for sure.

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Oh, yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

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They'd be

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like, "What is this? This is,
this is something different.

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This is out of this world."

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Oh, absolutely.

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Yeah, yeah, it'd be, yeah, it'd
be great to go back in a time

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machine and be able to- Yeah.

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… be spoofing around the drone.

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Oh, yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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People would be lose their,
people would lose their minds.

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Uh-

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We'll talk about it after the interview,
but it's an interesting concept of

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having a drone and just going out
and flying it, and just being able

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to observe a different viewpoint,
of what you're able to see along the

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coastline, and, you know, obviously white
sharks, surfers, and swimmers- Mm-hmm

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and, and all that kinda stuff, and the
other animals that we'll talk about.

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So I'm looking forward to this interview.

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So Dave, we'll get right to it.

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Yep.

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Here's the interview with Carlos Gauna,
talking about the wonderful world of

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drone footage and coastline in Southern
California, which is even better.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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So here's the interview.

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We'll talk to you after.

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Hey, Carlos.

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Welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Are you ready to talk
about filming sharks?

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I'm always ready to talk about sharks.

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All right.

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Well, welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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And today we have a very special guest.

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We have Carlos Gauna,
known as The Malibu Artist.

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he's a professional photographer,
cameraman, and FAA certified drone

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pilot based in Southern California.

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He specializes in capturing aerial
and landscape imagery, as well as

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creating unique digital media content.

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He's best known to many of us in
the shark world for his spectacular,

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uh, drone videos of white
sharks off Southern California.

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He recently posted a video of a
swimmer off Southern California with

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six white sharks swimming around him.

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It's like, wow, that's nuts.

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But- Carlos uses photography,
filmmaking, and drones to bring

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awareness to wildlife preservation.

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He's published scientific
research and collaborated with

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scientists across the world.

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As a public speaker and science
communicator, Carlos enjoys sharing ideas

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that help educate the next generation
of conservationists and filmmakers.

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His goal is to use photography
and drones to bring awareness to

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wildlife and the nature around us.

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His aim is to bring cinematic elements
to the educational, presentation.

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His photography has been featured
on National Geographic Shark Fest,

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BBC, Discovery's Shark Week, NBC,
CBS, LA Times, Boston Globe, PBS,

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pretty much all the big ones.

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if it's a big media, he's been there.

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Carlos got his, uh, education, he
did a Bachelor's of Science at, uh,

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Southwestern Oklahoma State and a
master's at Oklahoma City University.

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And we got a lot to cover today,
so I'm gonna get right to it.

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Hoo.

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Carlos, welcome to the show.

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It's an honor to be here.

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I'm looking forward to this one, Carlos.

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Oh, yeah.

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I have to admit, we've been
watching you for a while.

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And, uh, you know, the videos are amazing.

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like, how did it all get started?

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Yeah.

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Like, where did this love
for the ocean happen?

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It happened very far away
from the ocean to begin with.

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It started with tornadoes,
believe it or not.

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Oh, really?

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In the plains of Oklahoma, yeah.

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Sharknado?

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Sharknados?

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Sharknados, there you go.

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Not quite.

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It was more like catfish-nados there, but-

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Yeah, I had a job as the photo
editor for the university newspaper.

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And in the early days of digital
photography, I, I got the very

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first digital camera at the
university, started using it for

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things other than newsworthy pieces.

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Just photographing thunderstorms
and, like, just beautiful, like,

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flowers and things like that.

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But then one evening, a big
thunderstorm came through, and I

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just fell in love with photography.

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Started learning how to do long
exposures, and chasing tornadoes, in fact.

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And, um, that really started
my love for photography.

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Storm chasing.

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This started with storm chasing.

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Mm-hmm.

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Wow.

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that'd make a good movie.

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It would.

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Twister or something.

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The Storm Chaser.

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That'd be great.

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We have to think about that one,
so, And you grew up in Oklahoma,

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just so we're clear there, in
the middle, basically the middle.

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Yeah.

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Well, I grew up in New Mexico,
and then went to Oklahoma.

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And I lived there for 10 years, did
my undergrad graduate work there.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I lived on the plains of Oklahoma.

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Ended up on the coast here in California,
and I wanted to be by the ocean,

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and I ended up moving to Malibu.

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That must have been 2007 or so.

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And, um, all that time, I'd
been a photographer, wedding

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photography, commercial photography,
had my business in Malibu.

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And, uh, I just fell
in love with the ocean.

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I found myself, I think I had a streak
there for a couple years where I saw

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sunset at the ocean, um, every day.

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Wow.

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That was my thing.

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That's how I started on social media,
photographing sunsets in Malibu.

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did you start off early
on in social media?

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Like, when people started
getting into the social media-

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Mmm … were you early on, or?

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Not really.

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you know what?

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I started Instagram, like, in 2013.

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I guess that was early.

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'
Cause Instagram, when did Instagram start?

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Uh, like, Facebook started, like,
2007, 2008 to, like, the public, like,

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beyond- Right … those universities.

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But I think Instagram was,
probably around, like, what?

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2011, 2012? I'm not too sure.

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Something like that.

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Yeah.

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But it, was, I guess it
was early for Instagram.

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I know I started in 2013, but I was
literally uploading… You probably

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even go all the way down my Instagram
feed, you can see, I think I was

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just uploading photos of my cat.

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The long way we've come.

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Yeah.

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Oh, it's- Well, if- … 2010
Instagram started.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Well, there's a lot of cat
people out there, so you've-

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probably got an audience
early on just the cat people.

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Yeah, oh,

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100%. Uh,

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yeah.

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Cat, cats were big back then.

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I remember YouTube was-
Yeah … all cat videos, right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Kinda what brought you out to California?

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You just wanted to come to the ocean, or?

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Yeah, I had an opportunity, uh, in
the corporate world to move out here.

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Okay.

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And I, got a job on the West Coast here
in Los Angeles for a major insurance

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company, and I actually worked in
the corporate world for 16 years.

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Wow.

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Um, but it, my heart wasn't in it.

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I needed- Yeah … to be outside.

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I couldn't stand being in an office
building and, doing the corporate thing.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, and you know, meanwhile, I was
photographing weddings and commercial

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work and doing those gigs on the side.

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Uh, and then drones came onto the
scene in around 2016, and I bought

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my first drone, and I started
using it to film the gray whales.

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and the gray whales- Oh … in
Malibu are one of the best places,

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it is one of the best places to see
a gray whale up close in the world.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, for sure.

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when you decided, like, drones
were really new back then.

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not a lot of people had them.

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Obviously you were into
photography, into videography.

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What made you decide drones
would be a good tool, to use?

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And was it just for wildlife,
like off the ocean, or was

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it for your wedding business?

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funny thing is I never
incorporated it into my business.

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Uh- Okay … it was really
just my hobby at the time.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I saw it as, you know, as a
creative, you're always looking

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for new outlets, new technologies,
new things to kind of explore new

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creative, creative avenues, right?

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And so that's what it was for me.

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to, to be frank, I hated drones
when they first came out.

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I just couldn't stand, like, them.

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They were so loud and everything.

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Yeah.

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and then, I don't know, just one day
I was like, "I'm gonna get one of

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these. There's a camera in the sky.
I mean, yeah, that sounds cool."

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Mm-hmm.

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And I started playing with drones.

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when the whales came through, I started
filming them, and then I just fell in

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love with seeing the ocean from the sky.

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That's where it all started.

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Mm-hmm.

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Did you ever have to worry about
using drones around whales at first?

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Because I remember there weren't any
regulations around it at that time.

246
00:09:10,931 --> 00:09:13,751
Like I remember a certain, uh,
scientist, like, they were like,

247
00:09:13,751 --> 00:09:14,611
" we're not allowed to use them."

248
00:09:14,691 --> 00:09:16,891
Like, "We won't get permits."
Like, it was, the regulations

249
00:09:16,891 --> 00:09:19,611
hadn't been put in place, and
nobody knew how to deal with them.

250
00:09:19,768 --> 00:09:21,638
Did that affect you in any kind of way?

251
00:09:21,648 --> 00:09:24,378
Or was it later on that you did that
when all the regulations were in place?

252
00:09:24,980 --> 00:09:29,190
I had a mentor who's very, very old
school mentor that, you know, my

253
00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:32,550
biggest dream was to be a Nat Geo
photographer, and I always believed

254
00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:36,760
in, as a photojournalist, 'cause I,
you know, I was in photojournalism, um-

255
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:37,080
Mm-hmm

256
00:09:37,910 --> 00:09:43,190
I always believed that you should
have as little impact on what you're-

257
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,340
Yeah … photographing as possible.

258
00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:49,130
And so for me, I never, looked at
it as, "I'm gonna bug these whales."

259
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:49,500
Right.

260
00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:52,530
'
And back then they were so new, I
did not wanna get close to a whale.

261
00:09:52,540 --> 00:09:52,820
Like, I was- 'Cause

262
00:09:52,820 --> 00:09:53,990
you didn't even know what would happen.

263
00:09:53,990 --> 00:09:54,730
Yeah, for sure.

264
00:09:54,730 --> 00:09:55,110
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

265
00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:55,680
For sure.

266
00:09:56,290 --> 00:09:58,860
and, you know, just you start
researching, start asking

267
00:09:58,860 --> 00:10:00,500
people, like things like that.

268
00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,470
Even with a new technology like that,
it's always best to just play it

269
00:10:04,470 --> 00:10:06,420
conservatively, and that's what I did.

270
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:07,760
I observed the whales.

271
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,530
And, funny enough, I started noticing
that the whales really didn't care about

272
00:10:11,530 --> 00:10:15,908
the drone and so like, you know, just
one of those things you evolve into.

273
00:10:15,908 --> 00:10:19,068
You just- Yeah … take
information, you learn, and then,

274
00:10:19,078 --> 00:10:20,748
you know, you gotta be ethical.

275
00:10:20,748 --> 00:10:21,618
You gotta have that- Of

276
00:10:21,618 --> 00:10:21,988
course

277
00:10:22,598 --> 00:10:26,318
…
innate ability- Yeah … to tell this
is gonna affect the animal, and my

278
00:10:26,318 --> 00:10:27,798
shot's gonna be wasted if it does.

279
00:10:27,808 --> 00:10:28,218
Yeah.

280
00:10:28,628 --> 00:10:30,988
Was it a difficult thing to
learn how to fly a drone?

281
00:10:31,108 --> 00:10:34,758
'Cause that's gotta be, like especially
at the beginning, it's gotta be a kind

282
00:10:34,758 --> 00:10:36,298
of a bit of a learning curve, right?

283
00:10:36,398 --> 00:10:37,578
The wind and everything,
especially out offshore.

284
00:10:37,578 --> 00:10:38,178
Well, there are some shooters.

285
00:10:38,178 --> 00:10:39,438
I remember my first flight.

286
00:10:39,478 --> 00:10:39,768
Yes.

287
00:10:40,018 --> 00:10:40,498
There are some shooters.

288
00:10:40,498 --> 00:10:40,688
Do I

289
00:10:40,688 --> 00:10:41,218
lose it?

290
00:10:41,218 --> 00:10:42,778
So tell us about it.

291
00:10:42,778 --> 00:10:46,968
So here's a, here's a, here's a little,
uh, tidbit for you, and I always thank

292
00:10:46,968 --> 00:10:49,978
my mom for this 'cause I still to this
day, she was just here last week, and I

293
00:10:49,978 --> 00:10:54,348
told her, "See, Mom, all those hours of
video gaming has really, really paid off."

294
00:10:56,708 --> 00:10:57,738
And see, I told you.

295
00:10:57,738 --> 00:10:58,338
I told you.

296
00:10:58,808 --> 00:11:01,898
Mm. So fine-tuning and controlling
the drone in the air and stuff- Mm-hmm

297
00:11:01,908 --> 00:11:06,978
… honestly, I learned that basic skill set
through my many hours of video gaming.

298
00:11:08,538 --> 00:11:08,918
Love it.

299
00:11:08,918 --> 00:11:10,153
Uh- There you go … but it's true.

300
00:11:10,153 --> 00:11:11,168
It is, it is a remote.

301
00:11:11,208 --> 00:11:13,488
Like, it is like a game
console remote, right?

302
00:11:13,528 --> 00:11:14,288
Like it's not that- Yeah

303
00:11:14,288 --> 00:11:15,068
far off.

304
00:11:15,658 --> 00:11:16,398
So yeah, I could see that.

305
00:11:16,408 --> 00:11:16,428
Yeah.

306
00:11:16,428 --> 00:11:21,108
If you fly, uh, any of the, if you play
any of the first-person shooter games

307
00:11:21,108 --> 00:11:25,988
or any of the- Yeah airplane games, even
like Star Wars, it's the same controls.

308
00:11:26,028 --> 00:11:27,398
It's the same exact controls.

309
00:11:27,398 --> 00:11:27,698
Yeah.

310
00:11:27,698 --> 00:11:28,198
Yeah.

311
00:11:28,338 --> 00:11:28,638
Yeah.

312
00:11:28,638 --> 00:11:29,478
That's interesting.

313
00:11:29,628 --> 00:11:31,828
so when you're doing the whales,
they, you're, you know, you're still

314
00:11:31,828 --> 00:11:33,058
working in the corporate world.

315
00:11:33,288 --> 00:11:36,298
You're doing your side gig with the
wedding photography, and then you're

316
00:11:36,298 --> 00:11:37,908
doing this hobby of the whales.

317
00:11:38,568 --> 00:11:41,298
And so, like, you're, as you're
going, like taking all these like,

318
00:11:41,298 --> 00:11:45,258
I'm sure, really nice whale pictures,
did you kinda stumble into the sharks?

319
00:11:45,918 --> 00:11:47,048
Or how'd that come about?

320
00:11:47,741 --> 00:11:50,961
You know, that real light
bulb moment came, like many

321
00:11:50,971 --> 00:11:52,911
things do in life, by accident.

322
00:11:53,181 --> 00:11:54,801
at the time, I only had three batteries.

323
00:11:54,831 --> 00:11:57,691
You buy your kit, and you have
three batteries, and that's it.

324
00:11:57,761 --> 00:12:00,431
And so I knew the whales
were coming through.

325
00:12:00,441 --> 00:12:01,441
It was March.

326
00:12:01,551 --> 00:12:07,545
there's an Instagram post that I made,
on that day, and I usually would go

327
00:12:07,545 --> 00:12:11,775
spin sunset, fly in the drone, use
my batteries, and then go up and take

328
00:12:11,775 --> 00:12:13,415
pictures of the flowers and whatnot.

329
00:12:13,415 --> 00:12:14,275
That was my feed.

330
00:12:15,085 --> 00:12:18,705
And I'll never forget this day
because I'm standing atop Point Dume.

331
00:12:18,735 --> 00:12:20,545
Have you been to Point
Dume before in Malibu?

332
00:12:20,985 --> 00:12:21,095
No.

333
00:12:21,105 --> 00:12:23,155
Uh, long time ago, but yeah

334
00:12:23,799 --> 00:12:24,044
Okay.

335
00:12:24,044 --> 00:12:26,629
Have you seen the end
of Planet of the Apes?

336
00:12:27,359 --> 00:12:27,729
Oh, yeah.

337
00:12:27,819 --> 00:12:28,009
Yep.

338
00:12:28,209 --> 00:12:28,839
I know- The Statue of Liberty.

339
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:30,719
I know exactly what
you're talking about now.

340
00:12:30,729 --> 00:12:30,759
Yep.

341
00:12:30,769 --> 00:12:32,179
That big rock is Point Dume.

342
00:12:32,179 --> 00:12:37,439
I was standing at the very point of that
rock, and, um, I had run out of batteries.

343
00:12:37,529 --> 00:12:40,279
So there's a parking
lot down at the bottom.

344
00:12:40,779 --> 00:12:44,379
So I was flying my drone from the
parking lot, 'cause you can't fly from

345
00:12:44,379 --> 00:12:45,809
the top because it's a state park.

346
00:12:46,229 --> 00:12:47,859
So I'm flying from down at the bottom.

347
00:12:47,919 --> 00:12:50,619
I run out of batteries, and
I hadn't seen any whales.

348
00:12:50,699 --> 00:12:52,439
and, you know, I was there three hours.

349
00:12:52,649 --> 00:12:57,249
I used all my batteries, and then
decided to just go take in the sunset.

350
00:12:57,899 --> 00:13:02,469
So I walked all the way to the top,
left my phone behind, my camera behind.

351
00:13:02,469 --> 00:13:03,289
I'm just gonna watch the sun.

352
00:13:03,299 --> 00:13:07,989
The one night I don't bring my camera or
my phone, whatever, and I sit up there,

353
00:13:07,989 --> 00:13:11,169
and there's like a, it's almost like a
chair up, up there, a rock formation.

354
00:13:11,169 --> 00:13:12,889
You could just sit up
there and enjoy sunset.

355
00:13:12,889 --> 00:13:16,109
And I'm sitting there, and I see a
splash, and I'm like, "What is that

356
00:13:16,109 --> 00:13:19,493
down there?" And dorsal fin comes up.

357
00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,360
I look at it again, I'm just
watching it, and then I see a

358
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,020
sea lion just jump in the sky.

359
00:13:24,030 --> 00:13:24,060
Mm-hmm.

360
00:13:24,210 --> 00:13:27,470
And there's another splash, and this
shark starts chasing a sea lion.

361
00:13:27,980 --> 00:13:32,180
I was watching a Nat Geo documentary live.

362
00:13:32,190 --> 00:13:32,310
Mm-hmm.

363
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:36,590
I was watching a sea lion getting
chased by a 16-foot great white shark.

364
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,200
And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's
a shark." And it had its dorsal

365
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,060
fin Jaws style, just going around.

366
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,970
there was another woman up there that
came up, and I said, "Are you seeing that?

367
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,490
Are you seeing that?" And she said,
"Oh my gosh." And she gets her

368
00:13:48,490 --> 00:13:49,900
phone out and she starts filming it.

369
00:13:50,430 --> 00:13:52,290
And I didn't have my camera, damn nothing.

370
00:13:53,380 --> 00:13:53,440
Of course.

371
00:13:53,460 --> 00:13:55,120
No one's gonna believe me, right?

372
00:13:55,130 --> 00:13:55,150
Yeah.

373
00:13:55,510 --> 00:13:57,580
So, I get back to my car.

374
00:13:58,260 --> 00:14:01,837
I told the woman that, was up there,
I, I told her, "Hey, this is my email.

375
00:14:01,837 --> 00:14:03,737
Can you send this to
me, like your footage?

376
00:14:03,777 --> 00:14:04,777
'Cause no one's gonna believe me.

377
00:14:04,777 --> 00:14:08,647
I just wanna have it just for myself."
I never heard from her, unfortunately.

378
00:14:09,877 --> 00:14:10,777
That sucks, yeah.

379
00:14:10,787 --> 00:14:16,267
However, I get in my car and I'm
driving home, and I think about, I'm

380
00:14:16,267 --> 00:14:20,197
just thinking about what I just saw,
and it's just a light bulb moment.

381
00:14:20,237 --> 00:14:21,567
I'm like, "You know what?

382
00:14:21,977 --> 00:14:24,227
Maybe I'm looking for the wrong species.

383
00:14:24,817 --> 00:14:27,287
What if I start researching sharks?

384
00:14:27,287 --> 00:14:31,927
What if I start looking for areas
where the sharks might be, and start

385
00:14:31,927 --> 00:14:36,343
dedicating some time, my free time,
to just making the sharks my hobby?"

386
00:14:36,953 --> 00:14:37,323
Hmm.

387
00:14:37,423 --> 00:14:38,273
And that's where it all started.

388
00:14:38,273 --> 00:14:38,853
Instead of the whales.

389
00:14:39,673 --> 00:14:41,243
Instead of the whales, yeah.

390
00:14:41,823 --> 00:14:44,483
Because a lot of people are filming
whales, and as, like me, I always

391
00:14:44,483 --> 00:14:47,093
wanna do something that's… I don't
wanna copy what everyone else is doing.

392
00:14:47,093 --> 00:14:47,143
Of course, right.

393
00:14:47,143 --> 00:14:48,053
I wanna do my own thing.

394
00:14:48,053 --> 00:14:50,443
I wanna just, lead in that capacity.

395
00:14:50,453 --> 00:14:54,753
And my Instagram post, you can still
see it, it's up still to this day,

396
00:14:55,233 --> 00:14:58,923
where I said, you know, "I missed
out this opportunity to film or

397
00:14:58,923 --> 00:15:03,143
photograph the only great white shark
I probably will ever see in my life."

398
00:15:03,553 --> 00:15:05,313
Is what I put in my Instagram post.

399
00:15:05,333 --> 00:15:09,273
That's- Little did I know that
I see great whites every day.

400
00:15:09,313 --> 00:15:11,733
Like, I was next to one two hours ago.

401
00:15:12,573 --> 00:15:12,973
Yeah.

402
00:15:13,523 --> 00:15:14,273
how long ago was this?

403
00:15:14,273 --> 00:15:16,213
How many years ago was this you
got that first, you saw that?

404
00:15:16,213 --> 00:15:16,373
This

405
00:15:16,373 --> 00:15:18,883
must have been 2017 or 2018.

406
00:15:18,993 --> 00:15:20,113
I think it's 2018.

407
00:15:20,113 --> 00:15:20,313
Okay.

408
00:15:20,313 --> 00:15:20,513
Yeah.

409
00:15:20,513 --> 00:15:21,043
Okay.

410
00:15:21,143 --> 00:15:21,583
Okay.

411
00:15:21,893 --> 00:15:25,553
so when you started to go out with
your drone, how long did it take

412
00:15:25,553 --> 00:15:27,833
you till you actually, like, were
able to start finding the sharks?

413
00:15:28,606 --> 00:15:31,076
It wasn't a process that
I started immediately.

414
00:15:31,126 --> 00:15:35,126
Anyone that knows me knows I'm very,
I do my homework before I just go out.

415
00:15:35,136 --> 00:15:36,476
So I'm not one to just test things.

416
00:15:36,496 --> 00:15:39,346
I like to do my homework, I like
to do my research, and just kind

417
00:15:39,346 --> 00:15:40,926
of be strategic about what I do.

418
00:15:41,486 --> 00:15:46,436
And so I spent a lot of time actually,
just doing online sleuthing, like

419
00:15:46,446 --> 00:15:48,316
looking at where encounters were.

420
00:15:48,956 --> 00:15:52,196
the one website that was the
most beneficial was the Pacific

421
00:15:52,216 --> 00:15:56,566
Coast Research Committee by,
um, the late, uh, Ralph Collier.

422
00:15:56,656 --> 00:15:57,486
Ralph Collier, yep.

423
00:15:57,856 --> 00:15:58,036
Yep.

424
00:15:58,066 --> 00:15:58,386
Yeah.

425
00:15:58,396 --> 00:16:03,306
and Ralph, he was so, so impactful
in getting me started in this.

426
00:16:03,316 --> 00:16:03,346
Mm-hmm.

427
00:16:03,466 --> 00:16:11,216
Not directly, but indirectly, because
I relied on his amazing documentation

428
00:16:11,266 --> 00:16:16,646
of shark data going back to the '90s,
'80s, you know- Yeah … all this.

429
00:16:16,826 --> 00:16:18,886
Ralph went back to the '60s,
I think, when he started-

430
00:16:18,886 --> 00:16:19,366
Yeah, yeah

431
00:16:19,366 --> 00:16:19,386
as a

432
00:16:19,586 --> 00:16:19,776
teenager.

433
00:16:19,776 --> 00:16:20,116
Yeah.

434
00:16:20,786 --> 00:16:21,086
Yeah.

435
00:16:21,106 --> 00:16:23,906
But on the- So … but on the website,
it went back quite- Yeah … a few years.

436
00:16:23,916 --> 00:16:24,206
Yeah,

437
00:16:24,256 --> 00:16:24,336
yeah.

438
00:16:24,336 --> 00:16:27,436
And so what I did is I pulled up his
website, and I would see a beach,

439
00:16:27,456 --> 00:16:29,076
and I would put a stick mark on it.

440
00:16:29,536 --> 00:16:31,366
I'd go to the next beach,
put a stick mark on it.

441
00:16:31,986 --> 00:16:34,846
And then after a while, this one
has five, this one has six, has

442
00:16:34,856 --> 00:16:36,576
seven, eight, nine, 10 encounters.

443
00:16:37,066 --> 00:16:39,606
Well, that seems like a good
beach to go start my search at.

444
00:16:42,056 --> 00:16:43,426
And so I started doing that.

445
00:16:43,426 --> 00:16:46,256
I started just going to these
beaches as time allowed.

446
00:16:46,306 --> 00:16:46,536
Mm-hmm.

447
00:16:46,536 --> 00:16:48,989
And then I started finding sharks.

448
00:16:49,599 --> 00:16:54,539
And I started seeing that sharks
were kind of around us more than

449
00:16:54,679 --> 00:16:56,499
probably even Ralph ever believed,

450
00:16:57,239 --> 00:16:57,579
Yeah

451
00:16:57,589 --> 00:16:59,009
based on his reports, right?

452
00:16:59,029 --> 00:16:59,379
Yeah.

453
00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:02,049
And so now, like, I'm there,
I'm like, "Wow, these sharks are

454
00:17:02,049 --> 00:17:06,032
here all the time." Regardless of
where I go, the sharks are there.

455
00:17:06,572 --> 00:17:08,862
And so that was kind of the process.

456
00:17:08,862 --> 00:17:13,532
That whole process took, like, two
years, and then when COVID hit, all

457
00:17:13,532 --> 00:17:18,312
the beaches were closed, and I had all
this free time to go by myself- Mm-hmm

458
00:17:18,322 --> 00:17:20,262
and just search the beaches.

459
00:17:20,272 --> 00:17:20,492
And

460
00:17:20,492 --> 00:17:22,702
j- and just search the be-
that'd … Well, probably w- I

461
00:17:22,702 --> 00:17:24,032
guess, uh, you had one benefit there.

462
00:17:24,032 --> 00:17:26,012
You could just go out there by yourself
and fly the drone- Yeah … and not

463
00:17:26,012 --> 00:17:27,342
worry about a whole bunch of people out

464
00:17:27,492 --> 00:17:27,642
there.

465
00:17:27,692 --> 00:17:28,102
Exactly.

466
00:17:28,112 --> 00:17:31,242
COVID was very important to me
there because, uh, you know,

467
00:17:31,242 --> 00:17:34,312
I, I guess you can't say very
important, 'cause that was- Yeah

468
00:17:34,312 --> 00:17:35,022
not a good thing.

469
00:17:35,032 --> 00:17:36,062
it's not a good thing- Yeah … of course.

470
00:17:36,062 --> 00:17:36,362
Yeah.

471
00:17:36,552 --> 00:17:39,882
It was not a good thing, but for my
personal story, that opportunity lent

472
00:17:39,882 --> 00:17:45,312
itself to me being able to go out by
myself, empty beaches, in my car, and

473
00:17:45,312 --> 00:17:46,672
just sit in my car and fly my drone.

474
00:17:47,242 --> 00:17:47,612
Yeah.

475
00:17:47,612 --> 00:17:49,702
And you, so you started going out
there, you started picking up with

476
00:17:49,712 --> 00:17:52,572
the sharks and seeing that there's
kinda like there's a lot of sharks

477
00:17:52,572 --> 00:17:54,622
out here- Mm-hmm … with the drone.

478
00:17:54,622 --> 00:17:57,465
initially was it off Point Dume, or w-
any particular beaches you can share

479
00:17:57,465 --> 00:17:58,985
where you were really started seeing them?

480
00:17:58,985 --> 00:18:03,455
Man, I went everywhere from Long
Beach to Emma Wood State Beach to

481
00:18:03,455 --> 00:18:05,965
Sunset Point Malibu to County Line.

482
00:18:06,195 --> 00:18:09,005
You name it, I was at every
beach if there was an encounter.

483
00:18:09,505 --> 00:18:13,675
Uh, went all the way to Rincon
Beach, you know, the, Padaro

484
00:18:13,675 --> 00:18:14,445
Lane up in Ca- Carpinteria.

485
00:18:15,835 --> 00:18:18,925
and just from there
all the way just south.

486
00:18:18,935 --> 00:18:18,955
Yeah.

487
00:18:19,085 --> 00:18:23,325
From Santa Barbara south all the way to
Long Beach, and I started finding sharks.

488
00:18:23,345 --> 00:18:25,535
Um, even down in, Huntington Beach.

489
00:18:26,065 --> 00:18:28,705
this is over the course of two
and a half years, but, like, yeah.

490
00:18:28,705 --> 00:18:29,045
Yeah.

491
00:18:29,075 --> 00:18:29,765
That, that's-

492
00:18:30,365 --> 00:18:30,575
It-

493
00:18:30,925 --> 00:18:32,915
That was a wake-up call
seeing all those sharks.

494
00:18:33,205 --> 00:18:34,385
And, and I get- I can imagine, yeah.

495
00:18:34,395 --> 00:18:36,035
And I'm guessing, I
don't know what, point.

496
00:18:36,045 --> 00:18:39,035
So I, I presume you talked to Ralph
and, like you said, Ralph was probably

497
00:18:39,075 --> 00:18:40,685
stunned at how many you were seeing.

498
00:18:41,195 --> 00:18:43,949
and then I know Chris Lowe had the
white shark program going there.

499
00:18:43,949 --> 00:18:46,949
At what point did you just said, "I
better might go talk to Chris, Chris

500
00:18:46,969 --> 00:18:48,529
there about your white shark stuff"?

501
00:18:49,337 --> 00:18:53,017
I filmed my very first
viral piece during COVID.

502
00:18:53,017 --> 00:18:53,491
Mm-hmm.

503
00:18:53,491 --> 00:18:58,587
It was a white shark, four white
sharks, they basically ate a whole

504
00:18:58,607 --> 00:19:00,387
common dolphin in 18 minutes.

505
00:19:00,907 --> 00:19:01,087
Hmm.

506
00:19:01,117 --> 00:19:02,397
Didn't leave anything behind.

507
00:19:02,867 --> 00:19:02,907
Yeah.

508
00:19:02,907 --> 00:19:06,027
That was my very first viral
piece of footage that I captured.

509
00:19:06,027 --> 00:19:09,067
That was the catalyst to launching
the YouTube channel- Yeah

510
00:19:09,337 --> 00:19:12,437
which would be a very vital
part to what I do every day.

511
00:19:13,007 --> 00:19:15,457
Because without the YouTube channel
and the revenue that came through that,

512
00:19:15,457 --> 00:19:18,867
I wouldn't have been able to finance-
Right … half of the stuff that I do.

513
00:19:19,147 --> 00:19:19,577
Yeah.

514
00:19:19,647 --> 00:19:23,857
And so that viral piece, I launched
my channel at the same time.

515
00:19:23,857 --> 00:19:25,077
I knew that was gonna go viral.

516
00:19:25,107 --> 00:19:29,637
I launched it, got 3 million views
basically- Wow … in the first

517
00:19:29,637 --> 00:19:33,227
week or so, and it was enough to
meet the hours and get monetized on

518
00:19:33,367 --> 00:19:35,157
YouTube, and then from there on is-

519
00:19:35,167 --> 00:19:35,617
From one

520
00:19:35,617 --> 00:19:35,967
video?

521
00:19:36,337 --> 00:19:36,677
Kept, kept it.

522
00:19:36,867 --> 00:19:37,127
Yeah.

523
00:19:37,137 --> 00:19:37,897
One video.

524
00:19:37,977 --> 00:19:38,277
Oof.

525
00:19:38,277 --> 00:19:38,827
Amazing.

526
00:19:39,047 --> 00:19:40,347
that is amazing there.

527
00:19:40,447 --> 00:19:42,817
Again, especially, and we, a
college is a perfect thing.

528
00:19:42,817 --> 00:19:44,647
You got, what'd you have, four,
you said four white sharks

529
00:19:44,647 --> 00:19:46,587
feeding on a, a dolphin basically.

530
00:19:46,587 --> 00:19:46,797
Yeah.

531
00:19:47,177 --> 00:19:48,647
Gosh, that- Right … that's amazing.

532
00:19:48,667 --> 00:19:49,057
That's a- And

533
00:19:49,227 --> 00:19:52,331
to answer your question, yeah, to Chris
Lowe, I didn't come in contact with

534
00:19:52,331 --> 00:19:56,901
Chris Lowe until probably, mm, late 2020.

535
00:19:57,341 --> 00:19:57,761
Okay.

536
00:19:57,771 --> 00:20:01,341
When some of my footage started gaining
traction and people were watching it.

537
00:20:01,751 --> 00:20:06,041
I've always had a, a kind of a, I
don't know if it's probably through

538
00:20:06,041 --> 00:20:09,391
schooling, I don't wanna misinform
people or act like I know it.

539
00:20:09,391 --> 00:20:13,101
Yeah, right … because I'm
definitely not an expert in the field.

540
00:20:13,731 --> 00:20:20,351
And so I actually made a call to Chris
Lowe, emailed him and the Shark Lab, and

541
00:20:20,361 --> 00:20:22,980
started consulting with me on some things.

542
00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:26,351
You can see that I've actually
cited the Shark Lab in a lot

543
00:20:26,351 --> 00:20:27,431
of my early videos- Mm-hmm,

544
00:20:27,431 --> 00:20:27,801
mm

545
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,870
…
as that relationship
started growing there.

546
00:20:30,001 --> 00:20:32,580
And then, um, LA Times really
put us together because they

547
00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:33,561
put us on the front page.

548
00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:34,500
Okay.

549
00:20:34,501 --> 00:20:34,841
Okay.

550
00:20:34,990 --> 00:20:35,410
Okay.

551
00:20:35,410 --> 00:20:36,830
Like when you guys were going out
together- Put the two drugs together

552
00:20:36,830 --> 00:20:37,330
is that it?

553
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:38,020
Yeah.

554
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:38,980
Let me back up a little bit.

555
00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:40,330
So what'd Ralph say?

556
00:20:40,330 --> 00:20:41,170
'Cause I, I knew Ralph.

557
00:20:41,210 --> 00:20:42,720
what'd Ralph say when you
started telling him about all

558
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:43,750
these sharks you were seeing?

559
00:20:44,380 --> 00:20:45,130
Did he have any- Oh, it,

560
00:20:45,310 --> 00:20:46,830
no, it was all through email.

561
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:46,870
Okay.

562
00:20:46,970 --> 00:20:49,160
And, um, he was amazed.

563
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:52,790
He was like, "Wow, that's pretty
interesting." And, you know, one

564
00:20:52,790 --> 00:20:57,497
email he told me that the sharks
were, like, there would be years in

565
00:20:57,497 --> 00:21:00,417
between incidents at these places.

566
00:21:01,127 --> 00:21:03,097
And, I can't remember the beach.

567
00:21:03,097 --> 00:21:07,044
Maybe it might have been actually
the one in Carpinteria, I believe.

568
00:21:08,074 --> 00:21:11,244
Anyways, he said that yeah, there hadn't
been a, a sighting there in a while.

569
00:21:11,244 --> 00:21:13,144
I was like, "Well, I saw 20
of them last week there."

570
00:21:17,284 --> 00:21:20,594
But you're, but so, so let's just get,
like I just, I just wanna differentiate

571
00:21:20,604 --> 00:21:25,875
too, like- So he's looking at it from
a boat, you're looking at it from above

572
00:21:25,875 --> 00:21:27,615
where there's no disturbance in the water.

573
00:21:27,615 --> 00:21:31,705
So you can almost argue that if
there's like a motorboat going around,

574
00:21:31,725 --> 00:21:35,665
even if it's stopped, it could be
something that pushes away the sharks.

575
00:21:35,685 --> 00:21:38,775
Whereas you're not even in the
water, you're however many feet

576
00:21:38,775 --> 00:21:42,415
above, you can see a lot more,
they're just not as disturbed.

577
00:21:42,415 --> 00:21:44,095
Obviously, you can see if
they were disturbed, they

578
00:21:44,095 --> 00:21:45,265
would probably leave, right?

579
00:21:45,265 --> 00:21:46,965
Like that's an assumption I would make.

580
00:21:46,965 --> 00:21:50,575
But that's kinda the benefit for you
is because you're so high up, you're

581
00:21:50,575 --> 00:21:52,475
not in the water watching them.

582
00:21:52,515 --> 00:21:52,685
Mm-hmm.

583
00:21:52,695 --> 00:21:53,645
You can see so many

584
00:21:54,465 --> 00:21:54,495
more.

585
00:21:54,505 --> 00:21:57,115
Is that- And just to clarify, his
database, the Pacific Coast Research

586
00:21:57,115 --> 00:22:00,445
Committee's database, which is
Ralph's website that he had, a,

587
00:22:00,455 --> 00:22:06,035
an amazing archive, all of that
was self-reported shark incidents.

588
00:22:06,295 --> 00:22:09,755
So you have a beach, like I've
seen, he said, well, we haven't

589
00:22:09,785 --> 00:22:13,235
had a shark incident at this
particular beach in several years.

590
00:22:13,928 --> 00:22:18,588
But that means that they haven't had a
surfer that got bumped or a surfer that

591
00:22:18,628 --> 00:22:19,270
was about to catch a wave and see a shark.

592
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:19,496
That's what we define as an incident.

593
00:22:19,496 --> 00:22:21,218
Mm-hmm.

594
00:22:21,338 --> 00:22:21,748
Right.

595
00:22:21,828 --> 00:22:28,278
So it, I mean, it was a self-reporting,
like how many of these encounters occurred

596
00:22:28,278 --> 00:22:30,428
when an actual human was able to see it?

597
00:22:30,578 --> 00:22:31,143
Mm-hmm.

598
00:22:31,143 --> 00:22:31,258
Mm-hmm.

599
00:22:31,268 --> 00:22:32,798
Or was there a tooth fragment?

600
00:22:32,808 --> 00:22:36,328
Something that you could measure that
was actually counted as a shark sighting.

601
00:22:36,328 --> 00:22:36,978
Mm-hmm.

602
00:22:37,358 --> 00:22:37,778
Mm-hmm.

603
00:22:37,818 --> 00:22:40,618
So the, key thing was there, it's
like, "Hey, there hasn't been a shark

604
00:22:40,618 --> 00:22:44,568
sighting per your report because
people haven't actually reported

605
00:22:44,568 --> 00:22:45,968
something in four years." Yeah.

606
00:22:45,968 --> 00:22:46,148
Yeah.

607
00:22:46,148 --> 00:22:51,378
"But I saw 20 here this week, and you know
what else I saw? I saw 15 people in the

608
00:22:51,378 --> 00:22:54,898
water, and not one- Mm-hmm … of those
people saw a white shark next to them."

609
00:22:55,558 --> 00:22:55,938
That was- Yeah.

610
00:22:55,938 --> 00:22:56,088
It's insane.

611
00:22:56,088 --> 00:22:57,258
I, I, yeah.

612
00:22:57,268 --> 00:22:59,138
I… Well, if people know that
listen to the podcast, I grew up here

613
00:22:59,138 --> 00:23:02,278
in Monterey, and I've been in the
water since I was about eight years

614
00:23:02,278 --> 00:23:03,758
old, literally like free diving.

615
00:23:03,758 --> 00:23:06,852
I used to do a lot of free diving,
spearfishing and stuff when I was younger.

616
00:23:07,552 --> 00:23:11,162
And people kinda knew there were sharks
around, especially times of the year.

617
00:23:11,582 --> 00:23:14,192
they knew they were around, but you just
try, you know, think about and stuff.

618
00:23:14,192 --> 00:23:19,402
But if I would've had any idea
there was like 20, 30 white sharks

619
00:23:19,402 --> 00:23:22,985
in the water, might have rethought
the whole spearfishing thing back

620
00:23:22,985 --> 00:23:24,575
then- … or the free diving thing.

621
00:23:24,585 --> 00:23:26,655
But were there that many back then?

622
00:23:26,655 --> 00:23:29,895
Because, like, we've seen a
population boom over the last few

623
00:23:29,895 --> 00:23:33,045
decades, but you know, when you
were younger, you're talking 1970s.

624
00:23:33,045 --> 00:23:33,445
'70s, '80s.

625
00:23:33,445 --> 00:23:33,645
'80s.

626
00:23:33,665 --> 00:23:33,685
Yeah.

627
00:23:33,815 --> 00:23:36,575
'
70s, eight- Yeah, s- '70s, '80s.

628
00:23:36,815 --> 00:23:37,025
Yeah.

629
00:23:37,025 --> 00:23:37,835
Like were there a lot then?

630
00:23:37,835 --> 00:23:39,675
'Cause that's when they got
put on the Endangered Species

631
00:23:39,675 --> 00:23:40,615
Act at that point, right?

632
00:23:40,625 --> 00:23:41,115
Yeah.

633
00:23:41,165 --> 00:23:43,485
well, this gets into the whole
thing about, yeah, I think the

634
00:23:43,485 --> 00:23:45,415
population's probably gone up.

635
00:23:45,415 --> 00:23:48,038
Except I'm the old guy here
on the show, but- Right

636
00:23:48,038 --> 00:23:50,178
I think, I think the, I
think the… Thanks, Andrew.

637
00:23:50,448 --> 00:23:51,198
Um, I have to-

638
00:23:52,458 --> 00:23:52,598
Um.

639
00:23:52,608 --> 00:23:53,608
I said '70s, I didn't say '40s.

640
00:23:53,638 --> 00:23:53,918
I could've

641
00:23:53,918 --> 00:23:54,378
said '40s.

642
00:23:55,028 --> 00:23:55,278
Yeah, I know.

643
00:23:55,278 --> 00:23:56,128
Yeah, yeah.

644
00:23:56,128 --> 00:23:59,668
but I just, once in a while some fisherman
would see one or you'd catch one and

645
00:23:59,668 --> 00:24:02,898
stuff, or you might see something off in
the distance, but, you know, you weren't

646
00:24:02,918 --> 00:24:04,418
thinking like, You know they're around.

647
00:24:05,018 --> 00:24:09,338
But since they started, uh, well, I know
I, I started going up in 2014 with, um,

648
00:24:09,798 --> 00:24:13,718
specialized helicopters up in Wa- out
of Watsonville, Chris Galardi's company.

649
00:24:14,428 --> 00:24:18,238
And we would routinely go up to
the… Are, are you familiar with

650
00:24:18,238 --> 00:24:19,388
the Monterey up here, Carlos?

651
00:24:19,428 --> 00:24:20,468
It's the cement boat- Yeah.

652
00:24:20,468 --> 00:24:20,778
Yeah … in that area.

653
00:24:21,448 --> 00:24:24,628
we'd go up and go out to the
cement boat, and, like, along

654
00:24:24,628 --> 00:24:28,288
a, about a two-mile stretch of
beach, I'd count 40 white sharks.

655
00:24:28,338 --> 00:24:30,938
There's sort of kind of mostly
in that six, eight foot, maybe

656
00:24:30,938 --> 00:24:32,068
a little bigger, but that.

657
00:24:32,568 --> 00:24:35,548
And then, and we just, you just
literally get tired of counting them.

658
00:24:35,548 --> 00:24:38,838
And then of course, you see
all the kids in the surf boogie

659
00:24:38,838 --> 00:24:42,268
boarding, surf, body surfing, the
parents are laying on the beach.

660
00:24:42,278 --> 00:24:45,358
You can see all this from, you know,
about 1,000 foot up, which sounds like a

661
00:24:45,358 --> 00:24:49,398
long way, but when you're at that height,
you suddenly this whole view shows up,

662
00:24:49,748 --> 00:24:53,138
and all these sharks are just hanging
out in back of the surf, just hanging

663
00:24:53,138 --> 00:24:54,888
around and kids are playing in there.

664
00:24:54,888 --> 00:24:58,278
And that area is, it's a real
popular beach up here in this area.

665
00:24:58,758 --> 00:25:02,478
and then you go down to Manresa Beach,
which is a couple of miles away, where

666
00:25:02,478 --> 00:25:05,238
the, it's a big s- surf area, and that's,
that's where the big white sharks.

667
00:25:05,238 --> 00:25:09,578
You'll see these sort of 16-footers
hanging out, just people surfing and…

668
00:25:09,928 --> 00:25:12,978
if you would've ever asked me, like,
years ago if there are that many white

669
00:25:12,978 --> 00:25:16,878
sharks, "Oh no, there's no way there's
that many white sharks there." So, and

670
00:25:16,878 --> 00:25:20,598
I, I don't think in the '70s and '80s
there was that many, you know, out there.

671
00:25:20,598 --> 00:25:24,712
But, that's just My best guess and,
dad was a marine biologist with Fish

672
00:25:24,712 --> 00:25:28,062
and Game up here, so I had a kind
of a bit of an insight into what

673
00:25:28,062 --> 00:25:31,662
was going on, if people would see
sharks and white sharks and stuff.

674
00:25:31,742 --> 00:25:34,502
and as I, I mentioned, have you
been up here to Monterey at all,

675
00:25:34,502 --> 00:25:36,112
Carlos, doing any filming up here?

676
00:25:36,112 --> 00:25:36,122
Yeah.

677
00:25:36,122 --> 00:25:36,842
Yeah, definitely.

678
00:25:36,842 --> 00:25:39,132
I'll be up there, uh,
probably soon as well.

679
00:25:39,372 --> 00:25:39,832
Okay.

680
00:25:40,032 --> 00:25:40,512
Okay.

681
00:25:40,532 --> 00:25:40,552
Um,

682
00:25:40,572 --> 00:25:43,352
but there's definitely
some big sharks up there.

683
00:25:43,352 --> 00:25:48,142
The interesting thing about Monterey
and that whole area, is that a lot of

684
00:25:48,142 --> 00:25:51,001
the sharks that I've observed down here,
I've actually documented connectivity

685
00:25:51,758 --> 00:25:55,338
between the sharks up there and the
sharks that I'm seeing down here.

686
00:25:55,668 --> 00:25:55,878
Mm-hmm.

687
00:25:55,948 --> 00:25:57,788
Uh, from the big sharks, the, the-

688
00:25:57,788 --> 00:25:58,068
Hmm

689
00:25:58,208 --> 00:25:58,708
…
big ones.

690
00:25:58,718 --> 00:25:58,868
Mm-hmm.

691
00:25:59,208 --> 00:25:59,448
Yeah.

692
00:25:59,458 --> 00:26:02,188
So, you know, whether they go to
Guadalupe or whether they're the

693
00:26:02,188 --> 00:26:06,988
Farallons tribe, I think that they
just cover the whole West Coast.

694
00:26:07,068 --> 00:26:08,618
I think they just- Yeah … go
up the whole West Coast.

695
00:26:08,618 --> 00:26:08,978
Yeah.

696
00:26:09,558 --> 00:26:13,418
yeah, I mean, the one thing I can say
from growing up here is small white

697
00:26:13,418 --> 00:26:17,728
sharks were really unusual to see up
here, except during El Niño years.

698
00:26:17,828 --> 00:26:20,248
They would catch them, the fishermen
might ca- you know, back in the '70s

699
00:26:20,248 --> 00:26:23,808
and '80s there was no restrictions, and
not that people were trying to catch

700
00:26:23,808 --> 00:26:26,928
them, but they would incidentally catch
them here, but they were larger ones.

701
00:26:26,978 --> 00:26:29,908
Except during El Niño years you
would pick up these smaller ones.

702
00:26:30,308 --> 00:26:36,228
But since about 2014, they're routinely
here now all the time, and that's, to

703
00:26:36,228 --> 00:26:40,408
get back to our question about has the
population gone up, I would say yes,

704
00:26:40,408 --> 00:26:42,148
just because of all these smaller ones-

705
00:26:42,218 --> 00:26:42,478
Mm-hmm

706
00:26:42,498 --> 00:26:44,188
…
we see up here now year-round.

707
00:26:44,428 --> 00:26:47,978
I don't know about all year round, but
definitely three quarters of the year now.

708
00:26:47,978 --> 00:26:51,118
They'll show up around April or so,
May, and they're here pretty much

709
00:26:51,118 --> 00:26:53,108
till December, for the most part.

710
00:26:53,108 --> 00:26:55,908
They start thinning out a little
bit, but you definitely see the

711
00:26:55,908 --> 00:26:59,028
smaller ones up here, which we
never, they used to be pretty rare.

712
00:26:59,478 --> 00:26:59,858
But which I

713
00:26:59,868 --> 00:27:01,748
guess- A couple things there
that are interesting a- Yeah

714
00:27:01,748 --> 00:27:06,012
about that, is, people always ask me what
I do to find the sharks, how do I find

715
00:27:06,012 --> 00:27:07,312
them to begin with, what are the tips?

716
00:27:07,312 --> 00:27:11,712
the one variable that I always find
consistent with the success of finding

717
00:27:11,712 --> 00:27:13,762
white sharks is always water temperature.

718
00:27:14,302 --> 00:27:18,184
and them moving farther north-
The water's getting warmer.

719
00:27:18,274 --> 00:27:22,044
we have documented proof the water's-
Yeah … getting warmer farther north.

720
00:27:22,044 --> 00:27:24,784
Well- So it makes sense that
those juveniles are moving up.

721
00:27:25,344 --> 00:27:28,374
The other thing, too, is that area
where the, cement boat is, that, that

722
00:27:28,384 --> 00:27:32,334
New Brighton area in Santa Cruz, I know
talking to the oceanographers, that area

723
00:27:32,334 --> 00:27:34,654
tends to be a warmer area within the bay.

724
00:27:34,904 --> 00:27:37,864
I don't know if microclimate's the right
word, but that area tends to be warmer.

725
00:27:38,304 --> 00:27:41,384
And so that makes sense why the, small
white sharks are hanging out in that one

726
00:27:41,384 --> 00:27:44,464
area there, 'cause it tends to be warmer
than the other parts of the bay, which

727
00:27:44,464 --> 00:27:46,274
drop off and are a little deeper there.

728
00:27:46,584 --> 00:27:48,524
But that's really interesting
what you're saying.

729
00:27:48,524 --> 00:27:51,257
y- how it's temperature related, on stuff.

730
00:27:51,257 --> 00:27:54,397
I guess the question is, next question
is, do you check on the water temperature

731
00:27:54,397 --> 00:27:57,847
when you go out, when you're out flying
your drone, like, on a daily, like if

732
00:27:57,847 --> 00:28:00,887
you're off this beach or that beach, do
you kinda check what the temperature is?

733
00:28:01,397 --> 00:28:01,717
Yeah.

734
00:28:01,727 --> 00:28:05,457
Uh- Water temperature's probably the
baseline- Okay … to start with.

735
00:28:05,467 --> 00:28:08,817
Especially in the off-seasons,
January, February.

736
00:28:08,827 --> 00:28:08,847
Mm-hmm.

737
00:28:09,257 --> 00:28:10,787
Those are really important.

738
00:28:10,967 --> 00:28:14,257
Where the water's warm is you're gonna
find the sharks, much higher area.

739
00:28:14,267 --> 00:28:14,457
Even,

740
00:28:14,607 --> 00:28:14,647
even,

741
00:28:14,807 --> 00:28:17,114
I don't know Southern California
quite as well, but do, so you see

742
00:28:17,124 --> 00:28:19,904
them pretty much year-round if
the water temperature's up there?

743
00:28:20,574 --> 00:28:22,044
Every single month, yeah.

744
00:28:22,144 --> 00:28:22,244
Okay.

745
00:28:22,254 --> 00:28:22,684
Year-round.

746
00:28:23,014 --> 00:28:23,474
Okay.

747
00:28:24,014 --> 00:28:27,794
again, the, the, uh, the guys that used
to have the best data going back to the

748
00:28:27,794 --> 00:28:29,824
'60s was the, uh, marine mammal guys.

749
00:28:29,824 --> 00:28:34,134
They used to do aerial, flyovers for,
uh, whales and that type of stuff.

750
00:28:34,134 --> 00:28:38,744
And those guys, they used to record shark
sightings, basking sharks, white sharks.

751
00:28:38,744 --> 00:28:43,884
And there's a couple papers published in
the '70s and '80s just on sightings and

752
00:28:43,894 --> 00:28:49,264
at least up in this area, kinda May to
November, December, they would see them.

753
00:28:49,264 --> 00:28:53,514
There'd be a bit of a spike August,
September, October, which that's

754
00:28:53,724 --> 00:28:55,734
kind of, like, pretty typical.

755
00:28:56,174 --> 00:29:00,544
but with the drone stuff or people going
up in helicopters now, you see them

756
00:29:00,794 --> 00:29:05,144
most of the year, except up here middle
of the w- again, I'm not, I don't stay

757
00:29:05,144 --> 00:29:08,584
dialed in on it all the time, 'cause
frankly, they're magnificent to see

758
00:29:08,584 --> 00:29:12,024
the white sharks, as you know, but as a
shark guy, I get kinda bored with them.

759
00:29:12,284 --> 00:29:13,714
It's like, "Oh, okay,
another white shark."

760
00:29:13,714 --> 00:29:15,554
Hence the name of the
podcast, Beyond Jaws.

761
00:29:15,564 --> 00:29:16,014
Beyond Jaws.

762
00:29:18,364 --> 00:29:18,654
Good one.

763
00:29:18,654 --> 00:29:19,394
I will tell you-

764
00:29:19,394 --> 00:29:19,934
That, that wasn't my idea.

765
00:29:19,934 --> 00:29:20,884
That was all Dave.

766
00:29:21,214 --> 00:29:21,254
Yeah.

767
00:29:21,444 --> 00:29:24,604
I will tell you they can be very
boring to watch, and to get those

768
00:29:24,624 --> 00:29:30,704
little, like, micro behaviors that
are really cool, I think people don't

769
00:29:30,704 --> 00:29:34,154
realize how many hours of observation
it takes to get a shark- Yeah

770
00:29:34,764 --> 00:29:38,334
turning, becoming inverted,
for example, or doing a breach.

771
00:29:38,334 --> 00:29:40,154
I filmed a breach today, for example.

772
00:29:40,154 --> 00:29:43,734
and so that just takes hours upon hours.

773
00:29:44,344 --> 00:29:45,604
Mmm, there's a breach right there

774
00:29:46,568 --> 00:29:47,048
Oh, wow.

775
00:29:47,168 --> 00:29:47,728
Wow.

776
00:29:47,738 --> 00:29:48,388
That's awesome.

777
00:29:48,388 --> 00:29:50,708
That was, that was, um, that was today.

778
00:29:51,198 --> 00:29:53,738
That's not from your drone, that's
from, like, your own camera, right?

779
00:29:54,418 --> 00:29:54,613
Like from the shore?

780
00:29:54,613 --> 00:29:56,198
So I always set a camera next to me.

781
00:29:56,348 --> 00:29:56,728
Okay,

782
00:29:56,728 --> 00:29:57,015
just in case.

783
00:29:57,015 --> 00:30:00,048
I'm, I'm, I'm now starting to set
cameras next to me while I'm filming.

784
00:30:00,298 --> 00:30:01,628
I do film them from my drone.

785
00:30:01,788 --> 00:30:02,148
Of course.

786
00:30:02,148 --> 00:30:02,478
Yeah.

787
00:30:02,538 --> 00:30:03,288
Yeah, of course.

788
00:30:03,288 --> 00:30:03,511
Definitely.

789
00:30:03,511 --> 00:30:03,734
Yeah.

790
00:30:03,734 --> 00:30:03,958
But,

791
00:30:03,958 --> 00:30:05,768
but that was right next to me today.

792
00:30:05,778 --> 00:30:08,178
And so yeah, it's crazy.

793
00:30:08,958 --> 00:30:09,168
Yeah.

794
00:30:09,168 --> 00:30:12,598
Well, y- well, I, I always, I've told this
story many times in here, but you know, I,

795
00:30:12,598 --> 00:30:17,608
I did my PhD in South Africa in the late
'80s, and down there the sharks breaching

796
00:30:17,608 --> 00:30:19,788
was pretty well known by the locals.

797
00:30:20,298 --> 00:30:23,478
And I can remember seeing that, and coming
back here and trying to tell people like

798
00:30:23,858 --> 00:30:27,768
John McCosker, Ralph Collier, Leonard
Cap- well, Capano was in South Africa.

799
00:30:27,768 --> 00:30:29,958
He was with me, so he
kinda, he'd seen it too.

800
00:30:29,958 --> 00:30:33,038
But you come up back home and try to
tell these people st- that, and their

801
00:30:33,038 --> 00:30:36,408
thought, like, "Are you drinking or
smoking dope, Dave, or whatever you're

802
00:30:36,408 --> 00:30:36,898
doing?" I go, "No, no, I don't drink.

803
00:30:36,898 --> 00:30:38,088
I don't do drugs.

804
00:30:38,538 --> 00:30:41,438
but these sharks really are breaching
up here." Because you had no,

805
00:30:41,488 --> 00:30:44,808
cameras that could really capture
it like, like you're doing now.

806
00:30:45,308 --> 00:30:47,958
Um, and now of course we seem like, yeah,
they seem to kinda do it everywhere,

807
00:30:47,998 --> 00:30:51,138
most places you go, whether South
Africa or California or Australia.

808
00:30:51,588 --> 00:30:54,288
that to me is, like, all this drone
stuff, just fascinating that would've

809
00:30:54,288 --> 00:30:58,028
been awesome to have, like, 40 years
ago when I was a punk kid- Yeah

810
00:30:58,028 --> 00:30:58,548
running around, you

811
00:30:58,548 --> 00:30:58,658
know.

812
00:30:58,658 --> 00:31:02,398
I spent a month in South Africa earlier,
back in May, and, um- Oh, did you?

813
00:31:02,468 --> 00:31:04,998
I didn't see a single white
shark breach unfortunately.

814
00:31:05,298 --> 00:31:05,618
Oh.

815
00:31:05,628 --> 00:31:05,988
Man,

816
00:31:05,998 --> 00:31:07,618
so, uh- You know, things
have changed down there.

817
00:31:07,618 --> 00:31:09,991
But, uh- Of course that
was quite an experience.

818
00:31:09,991 --> 00:31:12,851
Uh, South Africa is, uh,
pretty, pretty amazing.

819
00:31:13,361 --> 00:31:13,981
Oh, yes, yes.

820
00:31:14,008 --> 00:31:14,838
it's really n- nice.

821
00:31:14,868 --> 00:31:19,658
In fact, if you go up to the Eastern
Cape, it's very similar to, uh,

822
00:31:19,658 --> 00:31:22,178
what you see down where you are,
down in the Malibu, that area,

823
00:31:22,178 --> 00:31:23,758
that, those long, sandy beaches.

824
00:31:24,228 --> 00:31:27,468
And that area is kind of in the
Eastern Cape past Port Elizabeth.

825
00:31:27,848 --> 00:31:31,488
It's very similar habitat, and even
back when I was a student it was

826
00:31:31,488 --> 00:31:34,518
known that you could find small white
sharks out there at times of the year.

827
00:31:35,218 --> 00:31:38,068
And you'd get, like, fi- I mean,
like, five, six-foot white sharks.

828
00:31:38,068 --> 00:31:40,518
At times they'd be really
abundant around in that area.

829
00:31:40,788 --> 00:31:42,788
And I think it had to do with
the water temperature, like

830
00:31:42,788 --> 00:31:43,918
you're talking about as well.

831
00:31:44,028 --> 00:31:48,436
But back then we didn't have nearly
the- Type of technology, which

832
00:31:48,436 --> 00:31:51,136
you have, which makes me, again,
makes me a little envious about-

833
00:31:51,276 --> 00:31:53,236
I was in East London there on- Yep

834
00:31:53,256 --> 00:31:58,376
the Eastern Cape and filmed white sharks
near kayakers and people- Yep … and just

835
00:31:58,376 --> 00:32:00,506
like here, and some big sharks as well.

836
00:32:00,516 --> 00:32:03,556
So, you know something always people
always say, "Those California sharks

837
00:32:03,556 --> 00:32:06,796
are so calm, and if that was South
Africa or if it was Australia, those

838
00:32:06,796 --> 00:32:07,766
people- Right … would be gone."

839
00:32:08,286 --> 00:32:09,326
That's just not the case.

840
00:32:09,336 --> 00:32:09,356
No.

841
00:32:09,366 --> 00:32:11,986
I just see, I saw the same
thing in South Africa.

842
00:32:11,986 --> 00:32:16,726
I saw people unknowingly kayaking
next to a large white shark.

843
00:32:17,176 --> 00:32:21,046
I just think that these animals,
again, That Jaws reputation has just

844
00:32:21,046 --> 00:32:22,396
followed them all around the world.

845
00:32:22,396 --> 00:32:22,736
Yeah,

846
00:32:22,736 --> 00:32:23,206
yeah.

847
00:32:23,246 --> 00:32:23,506
Yeah.

848
00:32:23,506 --> 00:32:25,876
Well, again, again, uh,
just sharing a quick story.

849
00:32:25,876 --> 00:32:29,196
I've talked to Andrew about this, but
when I was first in South Africa I, I

850
00:32:29,196 --> 00:32:31,026
went out to a place called Bird Island.

851
00:32:31,396 --> 00:32:34,326
I was actually looking for a
guitarfish, but they had a South

852
00:32:34,326 --> 00:32:39,276
African Defense Force helicopter pick
me up on the mainland and flew me out.

853
00:32:39,286 --> 00:32:42,576
And the guys, this is like 1986,
they said, "Hey, you wanna go

854
00:32:42,576 --> 00:32:44,306
see some sharks from the air?"

855
00:32:44,306 --> 00:32:48,046
It was my first helicopter ride
ever, you know, and I'm like, "Sure,

856
00:32:48,046 --> 00:32:53,106
why not?" And I had no frame of
reference for what I was about to see.

857
00:32:53,746 --> 00:32:57,026
But we flow along that coast towards, I
don't know if you know where Kenton-on-Sea

858
00:32:57,026 --> 00:33:00,426
is roughly, towards- Mm-hmm … uh,
it's kind of about halfway between

859
00:33:00,426 --> 00:33:01,826
East London and, Port Elizabeth.

860
00:33:02,286 --> 00:33:04,726
And we flew along the beach, there
are some popular beaches, and you

861
00:33:04,726 --> 00:33:09,866
see these sharks, bronzies, raggtos,
and then you see like a white shark.

862
00:33:09,896 --> 00:33:13,126
And when you're in the air,
there's nothing else that could be.

863
00:33:13,626 --> 00:33:15,186
you just go like, that's a white shark.

864
00:33:15,516 --> 00:33:19,456
And you see this, and you see these
swimmers and surfers right there in

865
00:33:19,456 --> 00:33:23,966
the surf and maybe 50 feet beyond
them there's this, 16, 18-foot white

866
00:33:23,966 --> 00:33:25,956
shark just cruising along the back.

867
00:33:26,426 --> 00:33:29,302
and so that was the first time I'd
ever seen sharks from the air like-

868
00:33:29,412 --> 00:33:30,922
Yeah … like you're describing there.

869
00:33:31,392 --> 00:33:32,062
So I guess the- And

870
00:33:32,062 --> 00:33:33,152
massive ones too, I'm sure.

871
00:33:33,602 --> 00:33:33,862
Yeah.

872
00:33:33,862 --> 00:33:37,712
So I guess coming back to the thing we,
we talked about a few minutes ago is I

873
00:33:37,712 --> 00:33:40,572
think there probably were sharks around,
but just nobody was up in a helicopter or

874
00:33:40,572 --> 00:33:42,982
had drones that see how many were around.

875
00:33:43,272 --> 00:33:43,582
Right.

876
00:33:43,612 --> 00:33:43,812
You know?

877
00:33:44,022 --> 00:33:44,712
They may not have been-

878
00:33:45,212 --> 00:33:47,082
Unless you saw the
breaching ones, but that's

879
00:33:47,082 --> 00:33:48,512
about it … the, the
breaching ones, yeah.

880
00:33:48,722 --> 00:33:49,852
Did you, do you, so how do you- I, I

881
00:33:49,852 --> 00:33:53,562
always ask people, um, you know, when
you talk about population numbers,

882
00:33:53,572 --> 00:33:58,022
because, I spent some time up at the
Farallons with Scott Anderson and Dr.

883
00:33:58,022 --> 00:34:00,762
Paul Knvy up there at the
California White Shark Project.

884
00:34:01,152 --> 00:34:03,892
They're doing some amazing work
up there with counting the sharks

885
00:34:03,892 --> 00:34:07,112
and ID-ing the sharks and getting
that population study going.

886
00:34:07,632 --> 00:34:12,542
But I always go back to where I'm seeing
a lot of juveniles, a lot of juveniles.

887
00:34:12,542 --> 00:34:16,622
We've seen, like yes, on the surface
it looks like there's more sharks,

888
00:34:17,022 --> 00:34:20,242
but how many of those juveniles
are making it to that adult age?

889
00:34:20,242 --> 00:34:24,322
I think that's the unknown there when
you're talking about populations,

890
00:34:24,342 --> 00:34:25,962
is the population really up?

891
00:34:26,858 --> 00:34:30,568
how do we know that those young
sharks are making it to adulthood?

892
00:34:30,738 --> 00:34:30,818
Right.

893
00:34:30,818 --> 00:34:32,098
We really don't, do we?

894
00:34:32,098 --> 00:34:32,222
No.

895
00:34:32,222 --> 00:34:34,828
We don't know that.

896
00:34:34,838 --> 00:34:35,028
Yeah.

897
00:34:35,028 --> 00:34:36,668
The only way you see if there's,
like, constant tagging and

898
00:34:36,668 --> 00:34:38,188
following and observing, right?

899
00:34:38,288 --> 00:34:38,708
Yeah.

900
00:34:38,838 --> 00:34:39,158
Mm-hmm.

901
00:34:39,158 --> 00:34:42,248
- The theory would be there's, is that
there's so many marine mammals out

902
00:34:42,248 --> 00:34:44,198
there, seals, sea lions, whales.

903
00:34:44,578 --> 00:34:48,458
There's a lot of food out there, and
so by extension that the assumption

904
00:34:48,458 --> 00:34:53,858
is the population's probably up, but
nobody really has any hard information.

905
00:34:53,858 --> 00:34:57,198
In fact, if you weren't flying drones,
you and other people weren't doing these

906
00:34:57,208 --> 00:35:01,318
drone surveys, we wouldn't have any idea
just how many sharks are out there now.

907
00:35:01,578 --> 00:35:02,048
Mm-hmm.

908
00:35:02,118 --> 00:35:03,348
'
We literally would have no idea.

909
00:35:03,348 --> 00:35:08,912
And as you started out your journey, that
first feeding event you saw, you had no

910
00:35:08,912 --> 00:35:12,622
camera, no phone, no nothing, and you're
just trying to explain it to people.

911
00:35:12,702 --> 00:35:14,902
So it's like- Yeah.

912
00:35:14,902 --> 00:35:17,692
… you know, it's like, uh,
yeah, good luck on that.

913
00:35:17,972 --> 00:35:18,322
That's right.

914
00:35:19,668 --> 00:35:24,108
have to ask too, like, as you started to
capture more footage of these animals,

915
00:35:24,618 --> 00:35:29,885
at what point did you really start to get
really interested in the science and the

916
00:35:29,885 --> 00:35:32,585
numbers and the health of the population?

917
00:35:32,885 --> 00:35:34,875
' As we're doing this interview,
I'm on your Instagram, and I'm

918
00:35:34,875 --> 00:35:36,025
going through some of these shots.

919
00:35:36,035 --> 00:35:39,725
You've had some incredible experiences
of seeing all different types

920
00:35:39,725 --> 00:35:43,955
of whales, from gray whales and
humpbacks and orcas and different

921
00:35:43,955 --> 00:35:45,455
types of sharks and, and so forth.

922
00:35:45,455 --> 00:35:49,655
But, like, at what point did you get
interested as an artist to say, "Hey,

923
00:35:49,655 --> 00:35:53,205
look, here are some people swimming by
these sharks, but also there's a lot

924
00:35:53,205 --> 00:35:57,025
more sharks than I originally thought,"
probably yourself as well, like, to say,

925
00:35:57,025 --> 00:35:58,805
"Hey, I didn't expect these to be here."

926
00:35:59,335 --> 00:36:03,175
And you're, you and, uh, maybe s- a
handful of others are at the forefront

927
00:36:03,205 --> 00:36:05,335
of shooting all these, sharks.

928
00:36:05,935 --> 00:36:08,305
At what point did you be
like, " Like, when you started

929
00:36:08,345 --> 00:36:11,175
talking to scientists, like, get
really interested in the science?

930
00:36:11,195 --> 00:36:15,105
Was it when you actually really started
to get the, the answers from, like,

931
00:36:15,115 --> 00:36:18,405
people like Chris and Collier and,
and those things, or those guys who

932
00:36:18,405 --> 00:36:21,675
were like, "Yeah, these are, this is
what's going on," or, "This is what

933
00:36:21,675 --> 00:36:23,055
we've been observing," kinda thing?

934
00:36:23,055 --> 00:36:25,815
Or where did that scientific
interest come from?

935
00:36:27,235 --> 00:36:29,965
And, you know, a lot of that,
came from just my natural

936
00:36:29,965 --> 00:36:31,575
curiosity with the world- Yeah.

937
00:36:31,575 --> 00:36:32,095
Yeah … honestly.

938
00:36:32,165 --> 00:36:37,375
I'm a really, really, big proponent of
making sure that the public is informed.

939
00:36:37,525 --> 00:36:42,375
All of us should do our, our just
our civic duty of making sure we

940
00:36:42,375 --> 00:36:44,615
don't say things that we don't know.

941
00:36:44,625 --> 00:36:44,655
Mm-hmm.

942
00:36:44,985 --> 00:36:47,875
Especially when you start getting a
following and people are watching,

943
00:36:48,195 --> 00:36:50,825
I did not want to misinform people.

944
00:36:50,835 --> 00:36:51,145
So-

945
00:36:51,235 --> 00:36:51,965
Mm-hmm

946
00:36:51,965 --> 00:36:55,435
…
at that point, I was like, "Oh, a lot of
people like this content. A lot of people

947
00:36:55,435 --> 00:36:59,615
are asking me questions, but I don't
feel comfortable answering this because

948
00:37:00,255 --> 00:37:01,995
I could Google it and just say whatever."

949
00:37:02,345 --> 00:37:02,365
Mm-hmm.

950
00:37:02,375 --> 00:37:06,845
But I just really wanted to give an
opportunity to the experts and to the

951
00:37:06,845 --> 00:37:10,855
people that know this stuff, because if
there's one thing, remember, I have a

952
00:37:10,935 --> 00:37:15,365
background in PR, if there's one thing
that I've realized the science community

953
00:37:15,395 --> 00:37:18,445
doesn't do very well is communicate.

954
00:37:19,095 --> 00:37:20,975
and so that really helped me.

955
00:37:20,975 --> 00:37:26,315
I was like, I, okay, I got a chance here
to communicate a science, a field, and

956
00:37:26,315 --> 00:37:28,045
I started, you know, making phone calls.

957
00:37:28,095 --> 00:37:30,345
You know Dr. Alison Towner
down in South Africa?

958
00:37:30,395 --> 00:37:30,715
Oh, yeah.

959
00:37:30,755 --> 00:37:35,885
She was really, really, really vital
to my early success in this because

960
00:37:35,895 --> 00:37:37,085
a lot of the stuff I didn't know.

961
00:37:37,095 --> 00:37:38,765
"Wait, Alison, here's a clip.

962
00:37:38,775 --> 00:37:39,645
What the heck's going on?

963
00:37:39,645 --> 00:37:40,775
Why is this shark doing this?" Mm-hmm.

964
00:37:41,015 --> 00:37:45,455
And she would explain it so well for
me, and that really helped me a lot.

965
00:37:45,955 --> 00:37:47,655
So I leaned into the experts.

966
00:37:47,655 --> 00:37:50,925
I leaned into the people that
are around sharks all the time.

967
00:37:51,025 --> 00:37:51,305
Yeah.

968
00:37:51,345 --> 00:37:54,955
And slowly, just through osmosis,
started learning their behaviors.

969
00:37:55,395 --> 00:37:59,075
And then the one thing that I would
also do is I've observed the sharks,

970
00:37:59,625 --> 00:38:03,455
and I'd started noticing patterns
in their movements, patterns in how,

971
00:38:03,805 --> 00:38:09,722
in order to be a cinematographer and
capture the right angle to kind of- know

972
00:38:09,722 --> 00:38:12,812
what's gonna happen before it happens,
you have to understand the animal.

973
00:38:13,162 --> 00:38:15,732
And so I started- Of course … getting
into the nerdy stuff of learning-

974
00:38:15,762 --> 00:38:16,092
Yeah

975
00:38:16,122 --> 00:38:16,722
…
you know what?

976
00:38:17,232 --> 00:38:22,112
That peck fin is down, that shark's
gonna move in this direction, or it's

977
00:38:22,122 --> 00:38:24,542
pointed, this shark is moving differently.

978
00:38:25,412 --> 00:38:29,262
now I can tell a shark whether it's
calm, whether it's agitated, whether

979
00:38:29,262 --> 00:38:31,062
it's moving, or whether it's foraging.

980
00:38:31,442 --> 00:38:35,452
Those little subtle movements in the fins
can tell you that, but you only get that

981
00:38:35,452 --> 00:38:37,162
through countless hours of observing them.

982
00:38:37,522 --> 00:38:37,902
Yeah.

983
00:38:37,942 --> 00:38:38,382
Mm. Yeah.

984
00:38:38,382 --> 00:38:42,032
Well, I've told this story on the show,
is that when I was a student and stuff,

985
00:38:42,032 --> 00:38:46,252
I spent years trying to get into high
locations where I could watch sharks.

986
00:38:46,522 --> 00:38:48,252
I didn't have the drone and
stuff, but I could watch.

987
00:38:48,282 --> 00:38:51,782
That's where I started seeing, like,
sevengill sharks h- hunting in groups.

988
00:38:51,842 --> 00:38:55,012
'cause you'd see, like, you know
they're not, it's not a random… I

989
00:38:55,012 --> 00:38:57,482
think you had some foota- you talked
about your first footage of those

990
00:38:57,492 --> 00:38:59,402
white sharks feeding on the dolphin.

991
00:38:59,632 --> 00:39:01,692
Y- you know it's not a
random what they're doing.

992
00:39:01,732 --> 00:39:05,242
It's a coordinated hunt and
kill, basically, for food.

993
00:39:05,252 --> 00:39:05,272
Mm-hmm.

994
00:39:05,672 --> 00:39:09,472
But you gotta just sit and watch,
kinda without the noise going on

995
00:39:09,482 --> 00:39:10,632
about, and just try to observe.

996
00:39:10,632 --> 00:39:14,232
And especially now with your
video footage, you can really

997
00:39:14,263 --> 00:39:16,252
analyze what's going on now.

998
00:39:16,322 --> 00:39:18,172
That, to me, is just- Yeah … great to

999
00:39:18,172 --> 00:39:18,519
be able to do.

1000
00:39:18,519 --> 00:39:21,612
I mean, that feeding event, you
could see three smaller white

1001
00:39:21,612 --> 00:39:23,062
sharks, they wanted to nibble.

1002
00:39:23,352 --> 00:39:27,193
they're taking their turns, and you see
the dominance hierarchy immediately.

1003
00:39:27,202 --> 00:39:29,482
The big one comes in, they leave.

1004
00:39:30,222 --> 00:39:31,292
This is your dolphin.

1005
00:39:31,962 --> 00:39:32,142
Yeah.

1006
00:39:32,352 --> 00:39:32,552
Yep.

1007
00:39:32,632 --> 00:39:33,622
we'll, we'll take the scraps.

1008
00:39:33,622 --> 00:39:33,943
Yeah.

1009
00:39:33,943 --> 00:39:34,173
Yeah.

1010
00:39:34,173 --> 00:39:35,463
And so you could see that.

1011
00:39:35,463 --> 00:39:37,282
But when I filmed it, I couldn't see it.

1012
00:39:37,312 --> 00:39:42,342
Now, when I'm filming a scene that's
similar to that, I know exactly

1013
00:39:42,342 --> 00:39:45,302
where I wanna put the camera because
I know here comes the big shark,

1014
00:39:45,432 --> 00:39:46,732
I need to get ready for this one.

1015
00:39:47,092 --> 00:39:50,942
Again, I've showed some of this stuff
before, but you know, what really got

1016
00:39:50,942 --> 00:39:55,582
me going onto stuff, and I've tried to
express this to young people too, is, and

1017
00:39:55,582 --> 00:39:58,482
this, this was the brilliance of Leonard
Compagno, is when I was trying, first

1018
00:39:58,482 --> 00:40:01,982
trying ex- like you are, Carlos, I was
trying to explain this to him, and he

1019
00:40:01,982 --> 00:40:03,522
goes, "I got some books for you to read."

1020
00:40:03,952 --> 00:40:07,582
And I read some books on
lions and how they hunt.

1021
00:40:08,292 --> 00:40:10,972
Uh, I think it was Hans
Kruuk and The Spotted Hyena.

1022
00:40:11,382 --> 00:40:14,902
I was in Africa, so naturally, like, well,
let's watch what the land predators do.

1023
00:40:15,252 --> 00:40:17,452
And when you start reading up these
things and you're, like, going,

1024
00:40:17,602 --> 00:40:21,132
"Oh, my gosh. This is exactly
what these sharks are doing."

1025
00:40:21,142 --> 00:40:25,452
Same type of pattern, but just
being on the water like that,

1026
00:40:25,452 --> 00:40:27,972
you only get short, quick, little
glimpses of what they're doing.

1027
00:40:28,472 --> 00:40:30,862
but yeah, if anybody's interested,
like I said, check out some of these

1028
00:40:30,862 --> 00:40:34,456
books on foraging strategies of some
of these land predators, you know,

1029
00:40:34,486 --> 00:40:36,986
where it could be grizzly bears or
wolves would be a good one to look

1030
00:40:36,986 --> 00:40:39,026
at too, but, but hyenas, lions.

1031
00:40:39,606 --> 00:40:43,699
You can apply a lot of what you see
with the sharks to these land animals.

1032
00:40:43,739 --> 00:40:45,359
Very similar- Yeah … type of, type of-

1033
00:40:45,359 --> 00:40:45,569
Yeah.

1034
00:40:45,819 --> 00:40:49,459
And, you know, and if you wanna do, like,
a literal comparison with lions, for

1035
00:40:49,459 --> 00:40:55,379
example, The one novel thing about drones
is that we can see the sharks' behavior

1036
00:40:55,859 --> 00:41:00,249
without a third party in the water,
without interfering what they're doing.

1037
00:41:00,509 --> 00:41:04,359
But a key thing here, and you'll see
this, like for example, why do the

1038
00:41:04,359 --> 00:41:09,469
sharks on Shark Week look so amped up
all the time, or even Nat Geo, whatever?

1039
00:41:09,889 --> 00:41:12,139
It's because there's chum in the water,
there's blood in the water, so the

1040
00:41:12,139 --> 00:41:14,329
sharks' demeanor is completely different.

1041
00:41:14,869 --> 00:41:19,089
So what I'm doing now is I'm even
filming them underwater with no

1042
00:41:19,109 --> 00:41:23,909
chum, with no anything, to get
that real movement of the sharks.

1043
00:41:23,939 --> 00:41:26,419
and from the- Yeah … air
you really see that.

1044
00:41:26,889 --> 00:41:30,369
And so a- Yeah … lot can be said
about, comparing it to lion, for example.

1045
00:41:30,369 --> 00:41:33,256
If if you have a safari vehicle and
you hang a giant piece of bloody

1046
00:41:33,256 --> 00:41:34,156
meat off the back of that- Yep.

1047
00:41:34,166 --> 00:41:35,976
For sure … safari vehicle-
Exactly … lions are gonna

1048
00:41:35,976 --> 00:41:37,746
be completely different- Yeah.

1049
00:41:37,746 --> 00:41:37,776
Yep.

1050
00:41:37,846 --> 00:41:38,236
Yeah

1051
00:41:38,286 --> 00:41:41,806
…
than if you're just observing
them without any meat around.

1052
00:41:42,326 --> 00:41:43,326
Yeah, no, I've, I've used it.

1053
00:41:43,366 --> 00:41:46,176
My thing is if you sit in your Land
Rover and you toss beef steaks out

1054
00:41:46,176 --> 00:41:49,236
the window for the lions, you'll
get some great pictures, but that's

1055
00:41:49,236 --> 00:41:51,416
not really telling anything about
what the lions- No … are doing.

1056
00:41:51,426 --> 00:41:51,616
Yeah.

1057
00:41:51,616 --> 00:41:52,046
It's not their

1058
00:41:52,046 --> 00:41:52,716
natural-

1059
00:41:52,806 --> 00:41:54,966
That's exactly how…
That's, yeah, same story.

1060
00:41:54,966 --> 00:41:55,246
So yeah.

1061
00:41:55,246 --> 00:41:55,746
No, you're right.

1062
00:41:55,746 --> 00:41:56,776
It's not a natural… Yeah.

1063
00:41:57,186 --> 00:41:59,266
So Carlos, as I said, I'm going
through your Instagram feed.

1064
00:41:59,266 --> 00:42:02,346
I, I noticed most of the shots are drone
shots, but you kinda just mentioned it.

1065
00:42:02,726 --> 00:42:07,616
You've done some underwater videography
and like phenomenal, videography.

1066
00:42:08,456 --> 00:42:12,786
How long did it take you to start
doing videography under the water and

1067
00:42:12,796 --> 00:42:16,416
what was the biggest like differences
or challenges that you had to face?

1068
00:42:16,596 --> 00:42:19,026
Or had you done it before, uh,
before you started doing all

1069
00:42:19,026 --> 00:42:20,746
this drone stuff over- I had,

1070
00:42:21,246 --> 00:42:23,246
I had done it before as a photographer.

1071
00:42:23,246 --> 00:42:26,236
the thing about- Okay … the drone
stuff, and I have this discussion with,

1072
00:42:26,276 --> 00:42:30,946
producers and stuff for productions for
TV and BBC and stuff, is that I always

1073
00:42:30,946 --> 00:42:32,926
get painted into the aerial square.

1074
00:42:33,566 --> 00:42:33,816
Mm.

1075
00:42:33,826 --> 00:42:34,136
Yeah, yeah,

1076
00:42:34,136 --> 00:42:34,586
yeah.

1077
00:42:34,626 --> 00:42:34,656
And

1078
00:42:34,916 --> 00:42:37,846
so, and people think I'm just…
I only know how to do this.

1079
00:42:38,026 --> 00:42:38,276
Yeah.

1080
00:42:38,286 --> 00:42:41,616
But I get in the water and I film, I
scuba dive, I do those things with sharks.

1081
00:42:41,936 --> 00:42:45,186
and I've been able to witness some
amazing things underw- I almost got

1082
00:42:45,296 --> 00:42:48,816
swallowed by a barrudis whale, but
the photograph came out amazing.

1083
00:42:50,726 --> 00:42:51,556
I got the shot.

1084
00:42:52,026 --> 00:42:52,336
Excellent.

1085
00:42:52,416 --> 00:42:52,596
But like-

1086
00:42:52,596 --> 00:42:53,636
Classic photographer.

1087
00:42:53,876 --> 00:42:54,576
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1088
00:42:55,876 --> 00:42:58,696
Hey, the one thing that's amazing
is I've swam with the orcas, I've

1089
00:42:58,696 --> 00:43:03,606
done this, but last month I got in
the water with pilot whales, right?

1090
00:43:03,646 --> 00:43:04,946
But I didn't take my camera at all.

1091
00:43:04,966 --> 00:43:06,446
So I'm in the water
with these pilot whales.

1092
00:43:06,476 --> 00:43:08,636
They're surround- doing
vortexes around me and stuff.

1093
00:43:08,956 --> 00:43:11,926
But then I'm thinking You
know, it's really different.

1094
00:43:11,936 --> 00:43:15,546
Like, I started getting spooked out
because I didn't have my camera with me,

1095
00:43:15,946 --> 00:43:19,886
and I started thinking things that I just
don't think of whenever I have the camera.

1096
00:43:19,886 --> 00:43:21,726
And it's like- It's like a security
blanket … as soon as I get the camera

1097
00:43:21,726 --> 00:43:24,016
in my hand, I'm like, I feel invincible.

1098
00:43:24,026 --> 00:43:25,606
Like I'm just- Interesting
… oh, I got a mission.

1099
00:43:25,606 --> 00:43:26,576
I'm doing this, right?

1100
00:43:26,766 --> 00:43:27,096
Yeah.

1101
00:43:27,136 --> 00:43:29,416
But without the camera, it
was a whole different world.

1102
00:43:30,256 --> 00:43:31,706
Uh- A little more- I guess what
I'm trying to s- … a little more

1103
00:43:31,706 --> 00:43:32,386
vulnerable in the water.

1104
00:43:32,386 --> 00:43:32,496
Is that what it is?

1105
00:43:32,756 --> 00:43:33,256
Yeah.

1106
00:43:33,256 --> 00:43:33,666
Yeah.

1107
00:43:33,666 --> 00:43:33,746
Yeah.

1108
00:43:33,906 --> 00:43:34,276
Yeah.

1109
00:43:34,316 --> 00:43:36,976
and so what I'm trying to say
is I love being in the water.

1110
00:43:37,006 --> 00:43:38,866
I love filming everything
underwater as well.

1111
00:43:38,866 --> 00:43:40,706
The white sharks, I'm starting
to do that, but I'm not

1112
00:43:40,706 --> 00:43:41,986
swimming with the white sharks.

1113
00:43:41,986 --> 00:43:47,096
I'm developing different contraptions
to film them underwater where I don't

1114
00:43:47,106 --> 00:43:50,296
have to be in the water with them,
whether it's a reef cam or whether it's

1115
00:43:50,296 --> 00:43:54,306
a tow cam, things like that, to get
these intimate shots of the sharks,

1116
00:43:54,446 --> 00:43:57,256
again, without my interference directly.

1117
00:43:57,296 --> 00:43:57,696
Yeah.

1118
00:43:57,936 --> 00:43:58,256
Yeah.

1119
00:43:58,326 --> 00:44:01,622
so I gotta ask you, like s- because
it's almost that, you know too much

1120
00:44:01,622 --> 00:44:03,972
from doing all your filming and
stuff, does that give you pause when

1121
00:44:03,972 --> 00:44:07,049
you go to the beach to go in the
ocean, or if your kids are with you?

1122
00:44:08,319 --> 00:44:08,979
No, no.

1123
00:44:08,989 --> 00:44:09,269
Okay.

1124
00:44:09,269 --> 00:44:10,044
it, it doesn't.

1125
00:44:10,074 --> 00:44:13,604
I tell you I wouldn't be swimming at
sunset by myself, that's for sure.

1126
00:44:13,644 --> 00:44:13,854
Yeah.

1127
00:44:13,854 --> 00:44:15,154
You know, I've learned a thing or two.

1128
00:44:15,754 --> 00:44:16,154
Yeah.

1129
00:44:16,154 --> 00:44:19,964
No, I, well, I, I know up here, like Chris
always says, like sort of dawn and dusk is

1130
00:44:19,964 --> 00:44:21,694
when the sharks seem to get most active.

1131
00:44:22,094 --> 00:44:24,614
During the day- Mm-hmm … he says they're
mostly just hanging out, just could

1132
00:44:24,614 --> 00:44:26,304
care less of what you're doing there.

1133
00:44:26,304 --> 00:44:27,093
They're just literally just

1134
00:44:27,653 --> 00:44:30,234
kind of- And, and I see big
ones near shore during the day.

1135
00:44:30,283 --> 00:44:31,263
I saw an 18-footer.

1136
00:44:31,263 --> 00:44:33,363
I've seen 16-footers, 15-footers.

1137
00:44:33,493 --> 00:44:36,153
they come in really close to
some of these areas that are

1138
00:44:36,823 --> 00:44:39,903
stereotypically juvenile nursery areas.

1139
00:44:40,313 --> 00:44:44,293
And I talked to Allison Towner about
it, for example, and she believes that

1140
00:44:44,293 --> 00:44:48,383
some of these sharks are probably using
the warm water temperatures to aid

1141
00:44:48,383 --> 00:44:51,933
them with digestion, and that's why
they're so lethargic when I see them.

1142
00:44:51,933 --> 00:44:55,633
I've taken my kayak next to an 18-footer
with no problem at all, right next to him.

1143
00:44:55,643 --> 00:44:58,253
Mm. Like, "Hello." And
they just don't care.

1144
00:44:58,253 --> 00:44:58,793
Yeah.

1145
00:44:58,793 --> 00:44:59,093
Yeah.

1146
00:44:59,103 --> 00:45:04,063
Um, they might just be full, and they're
just in that warm digestion s- phase.

1147
00:45:04,383 --> 00:45:05,213
Mm-hmm.

1148
00:45:05,370 --> 00:45:08,020
got that, it was just, was all
over on, social media, the guy

1149
00:45:08,020 --> 00:45:10,700
was swimming there, and he had six
white sharks swimming around him.

1150
00:45:11,020 --> 00:45:12,370
Could you tell us a little bit about that?

1151
00:45:13,137 --> 00:45:16,157
Yeah, that was actually recently, less
than a month ago from the recording-

1152
00:45:16,167 --> 00:45:17,247
Yeah … uh, that we're doing right now.

1153
00:45:17,547 --> 00:45:23,067
Uh, you know, that guy, he was out
there swimming, and rarely do these

1154
00:45:23,127 --> 00:45:26,417
encounters happen, like, close
enough to where I can yell at people.

1155
00:45:26,827 --> 00:45:29,357
They're usually pretty far down
the beach, or I'm not able- Mm-hmm

1156
00:45:29,357 --> 00:45:30,807
to physically let people know.

1157
00:45:30,987 --> 00:45:34,407
In this case, not only did I yell at the
guy and tell him, you know, " there's

1158
00:45:34,407 --> 00:45:37,667
a shark," there was a lifeguard there
as well, and the lifeguard paddled

1159
00:45:37,667 --> 00:45:40,267
over there and started telling
him, "Hey, you got sharks around

1160
00:45:40,267 --> 00:45:41,907
you." This guy just ignored him.

1161
00:45:41,907 --> 00:45:44,607
He's like, "I'm swim- I'm taking my
swim," and he just continued swimming.

1162
00:45:45,107 --> 00:45:45,197
Hmm.

1163
00:45:45,227 --> 00:45:51,727
Um, he only thought there was one shark,
but there was, I believe, seven around,

1164
00:45:52,087 --> 00:45:53,527
like- Wow … within 100 yards of him.

1165
00:45:53,537 --> 00:45:53,947
Wow,

1166
00:45:53,957 --> 00:45:54,087
that's

1167
00:45:54,087 --> 00:45:54,277
crazy.

1168
00:45:54,277 --> 00:45:57,057
And at one point, three of them
within 20 yards of him, and then

1169
00:45:57,067 --> 00:45:58,457
two of them within five yards.

1170
00:45:58,457 --> 00:46:00,807
And it got really intense
for a little bit there.

1171
00:46:01,137 --> 00:46:01,497
Mm-hmm.

1172
00:46:01,530 --> 00:46:07,100
that was a pretty close encounter for
white sharks being close to a swimmer.

1173
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:07,580
Yeah.

1174
00:46:07,580 --> 00:46:10,363
And it does make you nervous,
because like a few months ago, I

1175
00:46:10,363 --> 00:46:16,583
was kayaking with a tow cam, and I
had a seven, eight-foot white shark

1176
00:46:16,903 --> 00:46:18,733
come up to the camera, go away.

1177
00:46:19,033 --> 00:46:20,283
This went viral as well.

1178
00:46:20,653 --> 00:46:24,893
It did it twice, similar as you see
with the swimmer, but the third time

1179
00:46:24,933 --> 00:46:29,253
it bolted, and it- Mm … grabbed
that camera, and it smashed my dome.

1180
00:46:29,303 --> 00:46:33,163
this is a- Mm-hmm … seven,
eight-foot shark that put- Yeah … a

1181
00:46:33,163 --> 00:46:36,403
ginormous tooth crack inside of a
really hard- Yeah … acrylic dome.

1182
00:46:37,113 --> 00:46:40,753
So that's what kept coming into
my head, like if that shark

1183
00:46:40,753 --> 00:46:44,903
wanted to bite that guy's foot,
he could've easily just done it-

1184
00:46:45,513 --> 00:46:45,793
Yeah

1185
00:46:45,803 --> 00:46:46,703
…
in the split of a second.

1186
00:46:47,153 --> 00:46:47,553
Yeah.

1187
00:46:47,813 --> 00:46:48,783
They're wild animals.

1188
00:46:49,343 --> 00:46:49,603
Yep.

1189
00:46:50,677 --> 00:46:50,917
That, yeah

1190
00:46:50,917 --> 00:46:51,487
…
incredible.

1191
00:46:51,687 --> 00:46:55,067
That's what I try to tell people that are
wild, 'cause I've seen, like, particularly

1192
00:46:55,107 --> 00:46:58,917
because I did a lot of work on sevengills,
as people know, and they were considered

1193
00:46:58,917 --> 00:47:00,757
kind of a lumbering, slow shark.

1194
00:47:00,807 --> 00:47:05,067
And I don't know if you've ever captured
sevengills in your drone stuff, but boy,

1195
00:47:05,067 --> 00:47:09,237
I gotta tell you, when they, they could
literally just be kinda sluggish and

1196
00:47:09,237 --> 00:47:12,867
doing all that, but they literally in
a split second go into just this dart

1197
00:47:12,957 --> 00:47:16,867
and just unbelievably quick when they
wanna hit a shark or catch some food.

1198
00:47:16,887 --> 00:47:19,727
You're just stunned, like, I can't
believe that shark just did that.

1199
00:47:20,137 --> 00:47:23,807
From, like, just kinda dopily
hanging out to, like, just quickly.

1200
00:47:23,807 --> 00:47:26,957
And, white sharks are just, they're
in a whole different league as far

1201
00:47:26,957 --> 00:47:27,967
as that, that- Yeah … that goes.

1202
00:47:28,017 --> 00:47:29,537
Have you ever seen sevengill
sharks, by the way?

1203
00:47:29,587 --> 00:47:30,487
I'm just gotta ask the question.

1204
00:47:30,487 --> 00:47:30,857
Um,

1205
00:47:31,197 --> 00:47:32,907
The ones in False Bay
are sevengills, right?

1206
00:47:32,907 --> 00:47:33,227
Right?

1207
00:47:33,947 --> 00:47:34,617
Yeah, they're, yeah.

1208
00:47:34,647 --> 00:47:36,977
That's, well, I was, I worked on
those down there in South Africa.

1209
00:47:36,977 --> 00:47:37,247
Okay.

1210
00:47:37,257 --> 00:47:37,687
Yeah, yeah.

1211
00:47:37,727 --> 00:47:40,934
So I saw a sevengill get hunted
by Port and Starboard, the, the

1212
00:47:40,934 --> 00:47:42,324
orcas- Okay … while I was there.

1213
00:47:42,324 --> 00:47:42,434
Okay.

1214
00:47:42,434 --> 00:47:42,704
Okay,

1215
00:47:42,704 --> 00:47:42,729
yeah.

1216
00:47:42,729 --> 00:47:43,574
So I filmed that.

1217
00:47:43,594 --> 00:47:44,164
That was pretty intense.

1218
00:47:44,164 --> 00:47:44,664
Okay.

1219
00:47:45,304 --> 00:47:45,634
Yeah.

1220
00:47:45,634 --> 00:47:47,204
That's the only time I've ever seen them.

1221
00:47:47,204 --> 00:47:49,724
Unfortunately, the only time
I've seen a sevengill, it

1222
00:47:49,724 --> 00:47:51,464
was getting murdered by orca.

1223
00:47:52,004 --> 00:47:52,654
Oh, okay.

1224
00:47:52,774 --> 00:47:53,154
Okay.

1225
00:47:53,154 --> 00:47:56,614
Well- …, they tend to congregate down
at La Jolla Cove, if you're, if- Yeah

1226
00:47:56,614 --> 00:47:59,314
I haven't seen it, but I know the
guys just talk about, so had to

1227
00:47:59,314 --> 00:48:00,714
get in my sevengill question here.

1228
00:48:02,234 --> 00:48:04,904
I filmed a tope shark, believe
it or not, recently, near-

1229
00:48:05,034 --> 00:48:05,174
Oh,

1230
00:48:05,174 --> 00:48:05,374
really?

1231
00:48:05,374 --> 00:48:05,714
… a white shark.

1232
00:48:05,914 --> 00:48:06,194
Yeah.

1233
00:48:06,594 --> 00:48:06,884
Oh, really?

1234
00:48:06,884 --> 00:48:09,841
Oh, that's a favorite food that white
sharks like to snack on, are tope sharks.

1235
00:48:09,841 --> 00:48:10,331
I know that.

1236
00:48:10,331 --> 00:48:13,711
I filmed, uh, white sharks with
thresher sharks in their mouths.

1237
00:48:14,211 --> 00:48:14,591
Yeah.

1238
00:48:14,901 --> 00:48:15,281
I could,

1239
00:48:15,281 --> 00:48:15,731
yeah.

1240
00:48:15,731 --> 00:48:15,761
I saw that.

1241
00:48:15,761 --> 00:48:16,331
That's pretty cool.

1242
00:48:16,401 --> 00:48:16,831
I saw

1243
00:48:16,831 --> 00:48:17,201
that- Yeah … on

1244
00:48:17,201 --> 00:48:18,291
your Instagram.

1245
00:48:18,291 --> 00:48:18,451
That's pretty

1246
00:48:18,451 --> 00:48:18,531
crazy.

1247
00:48:18,531 --> 00:48:19,241
Yeah.

1248
00:48:19,241 --> 00:48:19,711
Yeah.

1249
00:48:19,711 --> 00:48:21,421
Well, they, yeah, I mean, they're
pretty mu- They're kind of up

1250
00:48:21,421 --> 00:48:22,781
there in the whole predator thing.

1251
00:48:22,831 --> 00:48:24,681
Other sharks are kind of
high on the menu for them.

1252
00:48:24,681 --> 00:48:28,351
They, people think of, seals and
sea lions and dolphins, but other

1253
00:48:28,351 --> 00:48:30,411
sharks are pretty high up in the food
list for a lot of the white sharks.

1254
00:48:30,411 --> 00:48:30,571
I

1255
00:48:30,581 --> 00:48:33,571
think those juveniles are on the,
on the menu for the larger sharks

1256
00:48:33,571 --> 00:48:36,841
as well, because I've seen small
juveniles and a big shark go, like,

1257
00:48:36,841 --> 00:48:38,231
that big shark was on a mission.

1258
00:48:38,271 --> 00:48:38,881
And like, it, "Gulp."

1259
00:48:39,001 --> 00:48:39,281
Yeah.

1260
00:48:39,281 --> 00:48:40,871
It went right at it, disappeared, but-

1261
00:48:41,581 --> 00:48:41,791
There-

1262
00:48:41,801 --> 00:48:42,011
…
you know

1263
00:48:42,101 --> 00:48:44,001
…
most people know Rod and Valerie Taylor.

1264
00:48:44,011 --> 00:48:44,041
Mm-hmm.

1265
00:48:44,391 --> 00:48:47,784
well known from the Blue Water, White
Death, and Australian photographers.

1266
00:48:47,794 --> 00:48:51,044
Back in the early '80s, I was at a
conference when I was like a young grad

1267
00:48:51,044 --> 00:48:55,894
student, and they had a photograph of, was
probably about an 18-foot white shark with

1268
00:48:55,894 --> 00:48:58,064
about an 8-foot white shark in its mouth.

1269
00:48:58,507 --> 00:49:01,757
And it was a pretty spectacular, it
was back in the '80s, and it was a

1270
00:49:01,947 --> 00:49:04,807
just amazingly spectacular, i- shot.

1271
00:49:04,897 --> 00:49:07,207
The only time I ever saw it was
just I was at a, conference they

1272
00:49:07,207 --> 00:49:11,387
were giving a talk at, and it was
just, um, it was amaz- amazing.

1273
00:49:11,387 --> 00:49:14,517
It was literally just, just, the,
the sort of eight-foot one looked

1274
00:49:14,517 --> 00:49:15,777
like it could've been two feet.

1275
00:49:15,787 --> 00:49:18,327
It was looked like just a
minutiae thing to the big one.

1276
00:49:18,327 --> 00:49:21,477
But I guess the point, it gets to
your point is, yeah, the bigger

1277
00:49:21,477 --> 00:49:24,267
white sharks like to eat the
small ones if they can and stuff.

1278
00:49:24,267 --> 00:49:24,577
Yeah.

1279
00:49:24,597 --> 00:49:25,827
So, um, yeah.

1280
00:49:26,417 --> 00:49:29,477
So, uh, well, you know, we're kinda
get coming up to the end here.

1281
00:49:29,477 --> 00:49:31,947
It's like Carlos, this has been
a, an amazing… I can't believe

1282
00:49:31,947 --> 00:49:33,457
it's gone, time's gone so fast.

1283
00:49:33,457 --> 00:49:33,770
We're- I could

1284
00:49:33,770 --> 00:49:34,157
talk to you forever

1285
00:49:34,157 --> 00:49:34,407
…
we're gonna,

1286
00:49:34,437 --> 00:49:34,877
we're,

1287
00:49:35,167 --> 00:49:36,417
we're gonna have you back on here.

1288
00:49:36,417 --> 00:49:38,627
we'll figure some time
here after the show airs.

1289
00:49:38,637 --> 00:49:38,727
Okay.

1290
00:49:38,747 --> 00:49:41,087
'Cause, uh, this has been a
great, I could spend a whole

1291
00:49:41,147 --> 00:49:43,177
lot of time talking to you here.

1292
00:49:43,177 --> 00:49:43,753
In fact, we didn't

1293
00:49:43,753 --> 00:49:45,517
even go- Yeah, we didn't even
get into some of the footage.

1294
00:49:45,547 --> 00:49:46,287
Like, yeah, yeah.

1295
00:49:46,287 --> 00:49:47,087
Oh, oh, I know.

1296
00:49:47,087 --> 00:49:48,897
We'd love to come back and talk to
you about some of these moments.

1297
00:49:49,217 --> 00:49:49,487
Yeah.

1298
00:49:49,487 --> 00:49:51,971
We'll definitely, we'll try
to get you to come back here.

1299
00:49:51,971 --> 00:49:52,257
I did have one question- Yeah,
go ahead … before we end

1300
00:49:52,407 --> 00:49:55,633
it, 'cause I gotta talk a little bit,
uh… A lot of the times, like, you're

1301
00:49:55,643 --> 00:50:00,283
filming footage where there's a white
shark around people, whether it's a

1302
00:50:00,293 --> 00:50:04,533
group of surfers or maybe coming in
close to shore where there's sometimes

1303
00:50:04,533 --> 00:50:07,913
children, close, not that close, but,
onshore and they see it and stuff.

1304
00:50:08,639 --> 00:50:11,619
It's just a drone with a
camera, and you're not,

1305
00:50:11,669 --> 00:50:13,519
necessarily alerting the people.

1306
00:50:13,619 --> 00:50:16,169
Do a lot of them know
that the shark is there?

1307
00:50:16,629 --> 00:50:20,389
And if they see your drone, are
some of the surfers who maybe know

1308
00:50:20,389 --> 00:50:22,489
you or know that there's a drone
around, whenever there's a drone

1309
00:50:22,499 --> 00:50:25,839
around, there's probably a shark or
something there that is of interest?

1310
00:50:26,445 --> 00:50:27,505
No, they don't know.

1311
00:50:27,695 --> 00:50:29,095
80% of the time they don't know.

1312
00:50:29,095 --> 00:50:32,035
But what I do is sometimes I'm the
first one at the beach, and as people

1313
00:50:32,035 --> 00:50:35,605
start coming up and I see someone's
going in to swim, I say, "Hey," I

1314
00:50:35,605 --> 00:50:38,435
just use you as a courtesy, I'll
tell people, "I'm gonna fly a drone.

1315
00:50:39,045 --> 00:50:41,615
it's only gonna be making noise
for a short period of time, but-

1316
00:50:41,775 --> 00:50:42,015
Okay

1317
00:50:42,015 --> 00:50:44,365
I'm gonna get it out of here." But I tell
people, "If you see this drone come near

1318
00:50:44,365 --> 00:50:45,785
you- So it's more of a noise than anything

1319
00:50:45,785 --> 00:50:46,245
else.

1320
00:50:46,335 --> 00:50:46,785
Yeah.

1321
00:50:46,845 --> 00:50:47,125
Yeah.

1322
00:50:47,135 --> 00:50:47,225
That's

1323
00:50:47,225 --> 00:50:47,735
interesting.

1324
00:50:47,745 --> 00:50:48,105
Okay.

1325
00:50:48,375 --> 00:50:51,335
If you see a drone come near you
in the water, I'm not filming

1326
00:50:51,335 --> 00:50:52,885
you, that means it's a shark.

1327
00:50:52,885 --> 00:50:56,215
So if, I'm here filming sharks,
think of the drone as a shark.

1328
00:50:56,215 --> 00:50:57,035
If it comes near you, that's a shark.

1329
00:50:57,035 --> 00:50:57,045
Yeah.

1330
00:50:57,045 --> 00:50:57,275
Mm-hmm.

1331
00:50:58,275 --> 00:51:01,695
And so people- Yeah … will start
spreading that along the beach sometimes.

1332
00:51:01,705 --> 00:51:01,725
Mm-hmm.

1333
00:51:02,135 --> 00:51:06,225
That's the only means I have, which
brings me to a really cool point.

1334
00:51:06,235 --> 00:51:06,265
Mm-hmm.

1335
00:51:06,755 --> 00:51:11,145
So the East Coast is very different from
the West Coast in how they handle sharks.

1336
00:51:11,475 --> 00:51:15,125
And I tell you, it's night and
day because the day that I was

1337
00:51:15,435 --> 00:51:17,625
there, I think I counted 21 sharks.

1338
00:51:17,625 --> 00:51:20,915
That day that the swimmer was with the
seven sharks around him- Mm-hmm … there

1339
00:51:20,915 --> 00:51:22,765
was a total of 21 sharks on that beach.

1340
00:51:23,395 --> 00:51:28,265
Had there just been one shark spotted,
when I'm filming in Cape Cod, for

1341
00:51:28,265 --> 00:51:30,445
example, they give me a radio.

1342
00:51:30,455 --> 00:51:33,965
Like when I go to Cape Cod, they give
me a radio, and I'm in- Mm-hmm … touch

1343
00:51:33,965 --> 00:51:36,785
with safety personnel across Cape Cod.

1344
00:51:36,855 --> 00:51:39,455
Like- Interesting … you know, the
Atlantic White Shark Conservancy,

1345
00:51:39,685 --> 00:51:41,295
Dr. Greg Skomal and all them.

1346
00:51:41,305 --> 00:51:41,325
Yeah.

1347
00:51:41,335 --> 00:51:43,825
They have a very different
protocol on the East Coast than

1348
00:51:43,825 --> 00:51:44,905
they have on the West Coast.

1349
00:51:45,465 --> 00:51:48,775
And so it's really interesting
because of how different the

1350
00:51:48,775 --> 00:51:50,425
coasts handle the sharks.

1351
00:51:51,077 --> 00:51:54,027
the beach wasn't closed, the beach
wasn't evacuated, nothing like that.

1352
00:51:54,077 --> 00:51:58,137
In Cape Cod, the moment I saw a white
shark, I called in an animal, they

1353
00:51:58,137 --> 00:51:59,587
put the flags up, pulled everybody.

1354
00:51:59,587 --> 00:51:59,797
Mmm.

1355
00:51:59,827 --> 00:52:00,467
Right away.

1356
00:52:00,717 --> 00:52:01,087
Interesting.

1357
00:52:01,087 --> 00:52:03,407
Is that just because of the incidents
that have happened in the past where

1358
00:52:03,407 --> 00:52:08,357
people have passed away or have been
some serious, incidents then compared

1359
00:52:08,357 --> 00:52:08,477
to California?

1360
00:52:08,477 --> 00:52:10,727
They, you know, they had a
couple incidents in 2019.

1361
00:52:10,727 --> 00:52:15,627
I think that it's just out of a
precautionary, Yeah … you know, they,

1362
00:52:15,637 --> 00:52:19,547
they're hunting seals near shore there,
which is a very different dynamic

1363
00:52:19,547 --> 00:52:22,847
than what we have in some of these-
Yeah … Southern California nurseries

1364
00:52:22,847 --> 00:52:24,567
and, and- Well- … sandy bottom areas.

1365
00:52:24,977 --> 00:52:28,477
Well, you know, we had this attack
last December on this, uh, woman here

1366
00:52:28,477 --> 00:52:31,997
out here- Right … in Monterey Bay,
a swimmer, and, uh, but, you know,

1367
00:52:31,997 --> 00:52:34,527
you go out there now, people are
just out there swimming every day.

1368
00:52:34,577 --> 00:52:35,427
They just kinda-

1369
00:52:35,447 --> 00:52:35,817
Yeah

1370
00:52:36,077 --> 00:52:40,087
you know, I think people just, they just
sort of take it as it's really tragic,

1371
00:52:40,087 --> 00:52:43,917
you know, they feel bad, but it's just
kinda like if you go out in the woods,

1372
00:52:43,917 --> 00:52:48,784
you might see a bear, you might see a
mountain lion, and I think people just

1373
00:52:48,794 --> 00:52:50,634
kinda take it as you might see a shark.

1374
00:52:50,964 --> 00:52:53,814
I think New England, because as you
mentioned, it's a newer thing with,

1375
00:52:53,844 --> 00:52:57,714
uh, that they're seeing there with Greg
Skomal's talked about, like, it's more

1376
00:52:57,714 --> 00:53:01,984
recent that maybe people are just react
differently now when they see stuff.

1377
00:53:01,984 --> 00:53:05,304
And of course, they filmed Jaws
up in New England as well, so.

1378
00:53:05,394 --> 00:53:05,944
Yeah.

1379
00:53:05,944 --> 00:53:06,144
Yeah.

1380
00:53:06,144 --> 00:53:08,254
The unfortunate thing, people
don't think about those, in

1381
00:53:08,254 --> 00:53:12,894
those situations, like even with
Erica up there in, Monterey area.

1382
00:53:12,904 --> 00:53:13,034
Mm-hmm.

1383
00:53:13,674 --> 00:53:13,944
Yep.

1384
00:53:14,024 --> 00:53:18,634
the one thing that people don't realize
is we can learn from this, and the one

1385
00:53:18,634 --> 00:53:22,644
lesson, especially here in California
with our recent fatality, is she

1386
00:53:22,644 --> 00:53:25,004
left her group, swimming on her own.

1387
00:53:25,747 --> 00:53:29,907
both of the cases in Cape Cod that
were fatalities the last fatality in

1388
00:53:29,907 --> 00:53:31,517
Cape Cod, he was swimming on his own.

1389
00:53:32,114 --> 00:53:35,544
Again, uh, I always try to
remind my audience, you have

1390
00:53:35,544 --> 00:53:38,094
to be mindful of these animals.

1391
00:53:38,464 --> 00:53:43,054
Do the things that are gonna lower
your risk instead of raise your risk.

1392
00:53:43,064 --> 00:53:46,304
You leaving your group swimming
is going to raise your risk.

1393
00:53:46,314 --> 00:53:46,334
Yeah.

1394
00:53:46,934 --> 00:53:49,784
So th- those are just little
things that I, again, education.

1395
00:53:49,784 --> 00:53:50,294
We gotta-

1396
00:53:50,837 --> 00:53:51,197
Well, yeah

1397
00:53:51,387 --> 00:53:52,377
…
these are wild animals.

1398
00:53:52,717 --> 00:53:52,967
Yeah.

1399
00:53:52,987 --> 00:53:53,857
Oh yeah, they are.

1400
00:53:54,297 --> 00:53:54,657
They are.

1401
00:53:54,657 --> 00:53:55,457
I mean, sur- I always say that.

1402
00:53:55,457 --> 00:53:55,507
I always say that, yeah.

1403
00:53:55,507 --> 00:53:57,067
Yeah, I mean, surfers love to be out.

1404
00:53:57,697 --> 00:53:58,677
It's not a knock on surfers.

1405
00:53:58,677 --> 00:54:01,407
I used to surf a bit, but they like to
be out on their own, kind of on this

1406
00:54:02,197 --> 00:54:05,837
isolated beach where they're just, maybe
just them and a couple of their buddies,

1407
00:54:06,277 --> 00:54:08,277
and just as, and great surf and stuff.

1408
00:54:08,277 --> 00:54:11,247
And it's the same with spearfishing
or abalone when they used to have

1409
00:54:11,247 --> 00:54:12,417
abalone diving in California.

1410
00:54:12,417 --> 00:54:16,797
You like to find that little out of the
way spot that nobody else is going to,

1411
00:54:16,827 --> 00:54:19,517
'cause that's where the big fish are,
the big abalone are gonna be found.

1412
00:54:19,567 --> 00:54:19,907
Yeah.

1413
00:54:20,097 --> 00:54:21,337
But your, point is well taken.

1414
00:54:21,337 --> 00:54:22,267
You should stay in a group.

1415
00:54:23,047 --> 00:54:25,247
It definitely will reduce
your opportunities.

1416
00:54:25,327 --> 00:54:27,457
and yeah, I can go on for another hour.

1417
00:54:27,467 --> 00:54:28,317
I got a whole bunch of questions- Yeah.

1418
00:54:28,317 --> 00:54:30,937
… I wanna ask you, but look, we're
gonna have you back on, Carlos.

1419
00:54:30,937 --> 00:54:32,417
We wanna talk, we wanna talk- 100%.

1420
00:54:32,497 --> 00:54:34,597
We're gonna definitely have you back
on, wanna talk some more about some of

1421
00:54:34,597 --> 00:54:39,237
this stuff and, uh, but really thank you
so much for coming on the show today.

1422
00:54:39,637 --> 00:54:41,377
we'll have you back on if you
can share some more of your

1423
00:54:41,377 --> 00:54:42,757
stories and everything with us.

1424
00:54:42,777 --> 00:54:46,767
And, uh, one question we usually ask
people, like, if some young person, and

1425
00:54:46,777 --> 00:54:50,087
you're a pretty young person yourself,
was interested in getting into doing

1426
00:54:50,107 --> 00:54:53,567
photography and stuff like this,
what advice would you have for them?

1427
00:54:54,367 --> 00:54:57,727
Well, photography specifically, I
always tell people to find a story.

1428
00:54:57,767 --> 00:54:59,857
Whatever you do, find a story.

1429
00:55:00,177 --> 00:55:06,447
and in the age of social media, something
I've personally done is create content

1430
00:55:07,367 --> 00:55:10,801
for yourself, not for your audience.

1431
00:55:11,241 --> 00:55:16,551
If you enjoy what you're doing, then
it's gonna show in your content.

1432
00:55:16,581 --> 00:55:21,144
So, it sounds selfish at first,
but I really, really truly believe

1433
00:55:21,144 --> 00:55:25,484
that in order to enjoy YouTube,
en- enjoy Instagram, do it for you.

1434
00:55:25,624 --> 00:55:30,714
Do make content, create
content that you enjoy first.

1435
00:55:31,504 --> 00:55:32,994
Don't be chasing the audience.

1436
00:55:32,994 --> 00:55:36,284
And, and- Yeah … so that's what
I tell especially young people.

1437
00:55:36,644 --> 00:55:38,074
You're a content creator.

1438
00:55:38,144 --> 00:55:40,954
Are you consuming content
or are you creating content?

1439
00:55:40,954 --> 00:55:45,314
Create content that matters to
you, and it will show in the end.

1440
00:55:45,744 --> 00:55:46,294
That's great.

1441
00:55:46,334 --> 00:55:47,884
That's a really- That's great
advice … that's really good advice.

1442
00:55:47,884 --> 00:55:48,644
Great advice.

1443
00:55:48,674 --> 00:55:48,994
Good.

1444
00:55:49,204 --> 00:55:49,494
Good.

1445
00:55:49,724 --> 00:55:49,984
Well, good.

1446
00:55:49,984 --> 00:55:53,124
Thank you so much, Carlos, and,
uh, yeah, we'll be talking soon.

1447
00:55:53,744 --> 00:55:54,524
Thank you so much.

1448
00:55:54,664 --> 00:55:54,884
Thanks a

1449
00:55:54,884 --> 00:55:54,914
lot.

1450
00:55:54,914 --> 00:55:56,004
Yeah, we appreciate it, man.

1451
00:55:56,014 --> 00:55:56,764
Thank you so much.

1452
00:55:57,306 --> 00:56:00,226
Thank you so much, Carlos, for
joining us on today's episode of

1453
00:56:00,226 --> 00:56:03,833
the Beyond Jaws It is So cool.

1454
00:56:03,843 --> 00:56:06,373
Like, I'll be honest, Dave,
like, that inspired me.

1455
00:56:06,373 --> 00:56:07,133
I'm like, "You know what?" Oh,

1456
00:56:07,263 --> 00:56:07,393
yeah.

1457
00:56:07,863 --> 00:56:10,173
I don't get these types of
animals in Lake Ontario.

1458
00:56:10,193 --> 00:56:11,623
By the way, it's still Lake Ontario.

1459
00:56:11,843 --> 00:56:13,003
We're not calling it the other name.

1460
00:56:13,283 --> 00:56:19,373
Uh, and I, I was like, that inspired me
to, like, go fly a drone just to see what

1461
00:56:19,373 --> 00:56:23,143
I could see, you know- Yeah … over,
over the lake, and just to observe,

1462
00:56:23,143 --> 00:56:25,113
like, what's happening along a coastline.

1463
00:56:25,453 --> 00:56:27,593
Um, I just think it's
really cool what he does.

1464
00:56:27,633 --> 00:56:30,183
And it's, it's just- Yeah … it's
gotta give you a lot of just…

1465
00:56:30,403 --> 00:56:34,153
He's ba- Like, you know, Wallace J.
Nichols talked about blue mind and being

1466
00:56:34,183 --> 00:56:35,973
around, you know, the water all the time.

1467
00:56:35,983 --> 00:56:36,003
Mm-hmm.

1468
00:56:36,003 --> 00:56:37,403
And he gets to do that every day.

1469
00:56:37,633 --> 00:56:39,243
You know, he's in the field-
Yeah … every day doing this

1470
00:56:39,243 --> 00:56:40,743
kinda stuff in Southern California.

1471
00:56:40,883 --> 00:56:43,163
I'm sure some days are better
than others in terms of wind and

1472
00:56:43,163 --> 00:56:46,833
everything like that, but my God, the
footage he has is just phenomenal.

1473
00:56:46,833 --> 00:56:46,863
Well,

1474
00:56:47,123 --> 00:56:50,533
I think, like most photographers,
the stuff you're seeing is, like,

1475
00:56:50,533 --> 00:56:52,013
the best stuff he's got there.

1476
00:56:52,203 --> 00:56:54,733
And if you ask him about, and he'll
probably, you know, like he says, like,

1477
00:56:54,783 --> 00:56:57,193
well, there's a lot of stuff that he
doesn't show- Of course … that's not

1478
00:56:57,193 --> 00:56:59,363
quite, quite the A quality you know-

1479
00:56:59,473 --> 00:56:59,773
Right

1480
00:56:59,773 --> 00:57:00,523
…
premium stuff.

1481
00:57:00,523 --> 00:57:04,113
but he has phenomenal stuff, and the
thing I like about it, and, I like

1482
00:57:04,123 --> 00:57:07,513
about the drone stuff is you can just
sit and watch what these sharks are

1483
00:57:07,513 --> 00:57:11,953
doing and see, and try to put into
context from a behavioral standpoint.

1484
00:57:12,223 --> 00:57:14,983
And I did a lot of that, but I didn't have
drones, obviously, as I, you know- Right

1485
00:57:14,993 --> 00:57:18,253
had to sit up on bluffs and cliffs
and anywhere I could get an advantage,

1486
00:57:18,253 --> 00:57:21,233
like where I could look on sharks,
particularly sevengill sharks, when

1487
00:57:21,233 --> 00:57:22,353
I was doing my graduate studies.

1488
00:57:22,353 --> 00:57:25,693
But, To have the drone footage and
to be able to see what these things

1489
00:57:25,693 --> 00:57:29,163
are doing, and then, you know, to
just to watch and try to put into

1490
00:57:29,163 --> 00:57:32,203
context, whereas, you know, today
there's so much of a, push that you

1491
00:57:32,203 --> 00:57:33,563
have to have everything quantified.

1492
00:57:33,773 --> 00:57:34,123
Mm-hmm.

1493
00:57:34,123 --> 00:57:35,023
You need to quantify everything.

1494
00:57:35,023 --> 00:57:38,353
Like, hey, why don't we just go
out and watch what the animal does?

1495
00:57:38,473 --> 00:57:38,813
Yeah.

1496
00:57:38,863 --> 00:57:41,823
And don't have to go crazy and,
like, say, and, you know, try

1497
00:57:41,823 --> 00:57:45,113
to, you know, anthropomorphize
what these things are doing.

1498
00:57:45,343 --> 00:57:45,553
Right.

1499
00:57:45,553 --> 00:57:47,403
But just, like, what
are these things doing?

1500
00:57:47,413 --> 00:57:48,443
How are they behaving?

1501
00:57:48,613 --> 00:57:49,893
How are they interacting with each other?

1502
00:57:49,903 --> 00:57:51,043
How are they moving through the kelp?

1503
00:57:51,303 --> 00:57:52,743
How do they re- you
know, move around seal?

1504
00:57:52,973 --> 00:57:56,393
Just some of that stuff's just
fascinating behavior that really can

1505
00:57:56,393 --> 00:58:00,683
tell you a lot, and I think that the use
of those drones today is just amazing

1506
00:58:01,103 --> 00:58:02,543
to, to be able, to be able to do that.

1507
00:58:02,793 --> 00:58:04,573
I might go get one just for fun.

1508
00:58:04,583 --> 00:58:04,933
Yeah.

1509
00:58:05,103 --> 00:58:07,323
Just to see what it's like,
you know, to have one.

1510
00:58:07,323 --> 00:58:11,183
I know there's, like, there's specific,
uh, things you have to look for.

1511
00:58:11,213 --> 00:58:15,073
You have to fly, and there's, like,
s- licensing and everything like that.

1512
00:58:15,073 --> 00:58:15,083
Mm-hmm.

1513
00:58:15,083 --> 00:58:17,478
But this seems like a
really cool thing to do.

1514
00:58:17,478 --> 00:58:17,643
Yeah.

1515
00:58:17,643 --> 00:58:19,527
Just to see what's around,
you know what I mean?

1516
00:58:19,527 --> 00:58:19,625
Yeah.

1517
00:58:19,625 --> 00:58:22,193
And, and from that vantage point,
as you said, it's like you're not in

1518
00:58:22,193 --> 00:58:24,763
the water, you're not on the water,
you're not disturbing these animals.

1519
00:58:24,763 --> 00:58:28,063
You can go from a pretty far
up and still get good quality

1520
00:58:28,063 --> 00:58:29,513
and zoom in with the camera.

1521
00:58:29,523 --> 00:58:29,933
Mm-hmm.

1522
00:58:29,933 --> 00:58:30,593
it's great.

1523
00:58:30,603 --> 00:58:32,013
Like, What he does is awesome.

1524
00:58:32,233 --> 00:58:33,393
His channel's amazing.

1525
00:58:33,713 --> 00:58:37,453
Uh, I can't wait to talk to him about
more stuff that he's discovered.

1526
00:58:37,453 --> 00:58:39,043
It's, it's- Yeah … it's
a pretty cool thing.

1527
00:58:39,043 --> 00:58:39,293
Oh, yeah.

1528
00:58:39,293 --> 00:58:42,083
I mean, talking about the juvenile
sharks and all this kinda stuff,

1529
00:58:42,083 --> 00:58:43,703
and how they interact with humans.

1530
00:58:43,843 --> 00:58:46,533
But also, like, the, the fact that
he's teaming up with scientists

1531
00:58:46,533 --> 00:58:48,253
to to, you know, do more work.

1532
00:58:48,253 --> 00:58:51,793
I think that's really valuable to get
someone like a community member to team

1533
00:58:51,793 --> 00:58:55,573
up with a scientist and- Mm-hmm … and be
able to talk about the work that they're

1534
00:58:55,573 --> 00:58:57,363
doing and complement each other, right?

1535
00:58:57,979 --> 00:58:58,179
Yeah.

1536
00:58:58,179 --> 00:59:00,709
I mean, the nice thing too with the
drone footage, you got the video, you

1537
00:59:00,709 --> 00:59:03,619
can actually, once you got that video
footage, you can sit at home or sit at

1538
00:59:03,619 --> 00:59:06,519
your desk, look on the computer, and
kinda try to see what they're doing.

1539
00:59:06,979 --> 00:59:09,339
You know, 'cause sometimes when
you get a chance to see a video

1540
00:59:09,339 --> 00:59:12,659
like that, you'll pick up stuff you
may not have seen in the moment.

1541
00:59:13,079 --> 00:59:13,609
Mm-hmm.

1542
00:59:13,609 --> 00:59:15,639
And so it's nice to be able to
kinda be able to pick up that stuff.

1543
00:59:15,639 --> 00:59:18,689
And I have, I have a, I have a number
of people, you know, close friends of

1544
00:59:18,689 --> 00:59:23,079
mine that do use drone footage, and
it is pretty phenomenal stuff they do.

1545
00:59:23,459 --> 00:59:26,479
You know, you can get a lot of really
cool angles and different things on that.

1546
00:59:26,479 --> 00:59:26,519
It's just, it's amazing.

1547
00:59:26,519 --> 00:59:26,839
Yeah.

1548
00:59:26,999 --> 00:59:30,139
The technology now is, is ridic-
I mean, now from, like, uh,

1549
00:59:30,189 --> 00:59:33,579
underwater BRUVs with just, like,
GoPros, and then you have- Mm-hmm.

1550
00:59:33,579 --> 00:59:35,579
Oh, yeah … you know, you have
these, these, these drones- GoPros

1551
00:59:35,579 --> 00:59:36,349
that you can fly.

1552
00:59:36,409 --> 00:59:40,409
It, it allows us access to animals
that we've never had before.

1553
00:59:40,759 --> 00:59:43,979
Now, it does take a while to go through
the footage and, and everything.

1554
00:59:44,059 --> 00:59:44,159
Yeah.

1555
00:59:44,159 --> 00:59:46,999
But that's the, that's the
labor-of-love part, right?

1556
00:59:47,009 --> 00:59:47,029
Yeah.

1557
00:59:47,039 --> 00:59:49,539
Not everything is, like,
is, uh, easy and perfect.

1558
00:59:49,699 --> 00:59:52,609
Well, well, if you get a, a, a s-
a, a plug here, but if you get a,

1559
00:59:52,609 --> 00:59:56,459
if you see episode three of our,
uh, series, uh, Searching for Lost

1560
00:59:56,459 --> 00:59:59,369
Sharks: Extinct or Alive, we actually
had some drone footage in there.

1561
00:59:59,509 --> 01:00:00,039
Yes.

1562
01:00:00,089 --> 01:00:00,369
Yes,

1563
01:00:01,079 --> 01:00:01,109
you did.

1564
01:00:01,109 --> 01:00:05,179
And I thought it would really
kinda had a, really was impactful

1565
01:00:05,179 --> 01:00:07,969
in the, in that episode, episode
three, if you wanna go check it out.

1566
01:00:07,969 --> 01:00:08,019
Mm-hmm.

1567
01:00:08,019 --> 01:00:10,319
And, uh, please subscribe if you're not.

1568
01:00:10,609 --> 01:00:12,269
but you can see what you can
do with the drone footage.

1569
01:00:12,269 --> 01:00:15,359
I wish I could have used one on some
of the other trips we did, but you

1570
01:00:15,359 --> 01:00:19,289
know, every country you go to has
different, has restrictions and stuff.

1571
01:00:19,299 --> 01:00:19,319
Yeah.

1572
01:00:19,329 --> 01:00:21,899
Some, some it's wide open, you
can do whatever you wanna do.

1573
01:00:21,899 --> 01:00:22,219
Yeah.

1574
01:00:22,219 --> 01:00:24,709
In other places, you gotta,
they're more strict about it.

1575
01:00:25,159 --> 01:00:27,689
And, uh- It also depends where you
are, like in proximity- Yeah … to

1576
01:00:27,689 --> 01:00:30,889
an airport, and, and like it's- Yeah
… it's pretty common sense, I think.

1577
01:00:30,899 --> 01:00:33,019
I think they've, like I remember
when they, when drones first came

1578
01:00:33,019 --> 01:00:36,579
out, there were a lot of, uh,
restrictions 'cause they didn't

1579
01:00:36,589 --> 01:00:38,489
really know what to make of it.

1580
01:00:38,489 --> 01:00:40,659
They didn't know if it would
disturb animals and things.

1581
01:00:40,659 --> 01:00:44,949
I know with the Marine Mammal Protection
Act, in the US where you live, you

1582
01:00:44,949 --> 01:00:46,259
couldn't fly it above a marine mammal.

1583
01:00:46,259 --> 01:00:50,579
Now they're using drones to take samples,
like snot samples from the blowhole.

1584
01:00:50,589 --> 01:00:50,869
Yeah.

1585
01:00:50,919 --> 01:00:51,539
using drones.

1586
01:00:51,539 --> 01:00:54,529
Well- So, like, obviously, you know, when
it first comes out it takes a while, but

1587
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:58,249
I think with the technology that they have
and now knowing that you can get, like, I

1588
01:00:58,249 --> 01:00:59,949
think it's, like, an FAA license, right?

1589
01:00:59,949 --> 01:01:00,769
Like a drone pilot's license.

1590
01:01:01,009 --> 01:01:01,319
Yeah.

1591
01:01:01,319 --> 01:01:01,399
Yeah.

1592
01:01:01,399 --> 01:01:03,129
I think it's, that's- Depends
where you are … and for Canada

1593
01:01:03,129 --> 01:01:04,529
it's, it's very similar to our, uh,

1594
01:01:04,529 --> 01:01:04,662
flying restrictions.

1595
01:01:04,662 --> 01:01:07,959
Like, like up here if you're, if, if
you're flying, like, in a marine sanctuary

1596
01:01:07,959 --> 01:01:11,179
or a non-marine sanctuary, y- you know,
depends on whether or not you need to

1597
01:01:11,179 --> 01:01:12,902
get a- Right … get a dr- get a drone.

1598
01:01:12,902 --> 01:01:15,672
And I talked about, like, I know up
here the guys I've been out that do

1599
01:01:15,672 --> 01:01:19,232
the drone stuff here at Monterey,
those white sharks pick up on the

1600
01:01:19,232 --> 01:01:20,852
shadows if it's a clear day- Yeah

1601
01:01:20,852 --> 01:01:23,902
in the water, and they pick up and
the, and they, it's almost like a cat

1602
01:01:23,902 --> 01:01:25,522
with a little laser beam on the wall.

1603
01:01:25,562 --> 01:01:25,842
Mm-hmm.

1604
01:01:25,982 --> 01:01:28,492
I've seen this, and I, you know, I
don't spend a lot of time out there

1605
01:01:28,492 --> 01:01:31,892
with the drone guys, but you know,
I, when I've been there, it's like,

1606
01:01:31,892 --> 01:01:34,942
it's interesting that They'll pick
up on the, on what's going on, so.

1607
01:01:34,962 --> 01:01:35,812
Yeah, no doubt.

1608
01:01:35,832 --> 01:01:36,802
Anyway, it's interesting, so.

1609
01:01:36,832 --> 01:01:37,652
It's, it's awesome.

1610
01:01:37,702 --> 01:01:38,072
Yeah.

1611
01:01:38,072 --> 01:01:38,182
Yeah.

1612
01:01:38,182 --> 01:01:41,852
So all right, we're gonna put link to
the Malibu Artists', uh, like Carlos's,

1613
01:01:43,012 --> 01:01:44,182
uh, YouTube channel, so go check it out.

1614
01:01:44,182 --> 01:01:45,572
Go see this footage, it's phenomenal.

1615
01:01:45,592 --> 01:01:46,342
I watch it.

1616
01:01:46,562 --> 01:01:47,552
You know what I do, actually?

1617
01:01:47,552 --> 01:01:51,042
I've been having it on my
computer, sound off, just watching.

1618
01:01:51,272 --> 01:01:51,642
Oh, wow.

1619
01:01:51,652 --> 01:01:54,272
And, and just, you know, just as
like kind of cool things to observe.

1620
01:01:54,272 --> 01:01:55,522
it's really fun to do.

1621
01:01:55,522 --> 01:01:55,832
Oh, cool.

1622
01:01:55,832 --> 01:01:58,052
It just loops, loops around
to different videos and stuff.

1623
01:01:58,062 --> 01:01:58,092
Yep.

1624
01:01:58,262 --> 01:02:00,282
But I highly recommend
you go, you go watch that.

1625
01:02:00,422 --> 01:02:03,032
And Dave, uh, you mentioned
it earlier, uh, the Lost Shark

1626
01:02:03,042 --> 01:02:05,052
Guy channel, uh, on YouTube.

1627
01:02:05,052 --> 01:02:05,079
Oh, yeah.

1628
01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:06,962
So go subscribe to it, go watch it.

1629
01:02:06,962 --> 01:02:10,322
Look, we're doing documentaries here
on how- Mm-hmm … to find lost sharks.

1630
01:02:10,322 --> 01:02:14,302
These are sharks that we haven't
seen in sometimes 25, 30 years.

1631
01:02:14,322 --> 01:02:14,732
Hundred years.

1632
01:02:14,732 --> 01:02:16,072
In places, yeah, 100 years.

1633
01:02:16,222 --> 01:02:18,342
Places that, you know,
nobody goes anymore.

1634
01:02:18,342 --> 01:02:22,922
And Dave, uh, brings, uh, uh, Denise
Audemeier out, who's the camera

1635
01:02:22,942 --> 01:02:27,082
woman, and she is phenomenal at
catching all of the important stuff.

1636
01:02:27,092 --> 01:02:27,122
Yep.

1637
01:02:27,122 --> 01:02:29,822
Talking to different fishers and fish
markets, and all this kinda stuff.

1638
01:02:29,972 --> 01:02:31,412
So go subscribe to that.

1639
01:02:31,412 --> 01:02:33,782
And of course, if you're watching this
on YouTube or you're listening to this

1640
01:02:33,782 --> 01:02:37,122
on your favorite podcast app, follow,
subscribe, whatever you need to do.

1641
01:02:37,442 --> 01:02:40,135
Don't forget to get in touch
with us on Instagram as well.

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We'll put the links in the show notes.

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01:02:41,855 --> 01:02:45,895
Thank you so much for joining us on
this episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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01:02:46,035 --> 01:02:46,655
Have a great day.

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01:02:46,655 --> 01:02:47,455
We'll talk to you next time.

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01:02:47,825 --> 01:02:48,635
And happy conservation.