What Actually Forces Companies to Protect the Ocean?

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What does it actually take for a
company to stop harming the Ocean?

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Because despite all the promises,
sustainability reports, and polished

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marketing campaigns, most companies
do not change just because people care.

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They change when we hit a tipping point.

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This is the How to Protect the Ocean
Podcast, your weekday Ocean news update.

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If you care about staying informed
about the Ocean every weekday, hit that

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follow button right now so you don't
miss tomorrow's story, which we're

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gonna be talking to Sarah Federman.

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It's gonna be a lot of fun.

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We're gonna be talking about all the
stuff that we talked about today.

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I've mentioned to her in
a bunch of these episodes.

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It's all about Ocean Week today.

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We are talking about all the real
reasons companies change, why awareness

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alone is not enough, and what actually
works if you want to protect the Ocean.

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Now, a lot of us grow up believing that
if companies knew the damage they were

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causing, they would do the right thing.

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That's a very scientific way of thinking.

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And what I mean by that, I don't mean
any harm or disrespect, is like when

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scientists are taught how to communicate.

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We are taught to communicate by logic.

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Everything we do is math based.

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Everything we do is logic based.

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So when we're doing a study,
we're trying to look for a

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trend, we use math to find it.

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It's either yes or no,
or we make a hypothesis.

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Is our hypothesis falsified?

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Like does it actually work out or not?

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What happens, we get a result and we
communicate it in a scientific publication

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that's peer reviewed by a number of
editors and we go back and forth.

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And once it's published, it's published
to a community, a community of

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academics where logic feeds on logic.

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So we go to the brain, as Randy Olson says
with his book Don't be such a Scientist.

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Scientists feed to the brain.

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We talk to the brain.

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That's what we love to do.

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'Cause if we say, Hey, you know what?

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Climate change is happening and we need
to lower our climate open, our greenhouse

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gases, then people should change, right?

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Yeah.

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It doesn't work all that way.

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We have to hit people
in the emotional gut.

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Where they're happy, sad, crying,
angry, whatever that might be,

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you need to hit them there.

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You need to hit 'em emotionally.

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That's the Science Communication
101 from Randy Olson.

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And so when we talk about logic,
we say, Hey, you know what?

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If businesses knew their
packaging was polluting beaches,

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they would probably stop.

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That's what we're thinking.

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That's the scientific way of thinking.

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The logical way of thinking.

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If the businesses knew supply chains were
harming communities, they would fix it.

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If they knew emissions were
harming the Ocean, they would act.

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But history shows us that that is
not how change usually happens.

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Most organizations are
built to preserve momentum.

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They protect quarterly profits,
existing systems, investor

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confidence, all that mumbo jumbo.

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It's whatever's convenient
to make the most money.

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Even good people inside those
companies often work within the

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systems designed to resist the change.

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That does not mean change is impossible.

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It means change needs pressure.

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I think it's really important when
we start to say things publicly

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but we move slowly privately.

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A lot of times, like you look
at something like Starbucks.

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I always use Starbucks as an example
'cause it's a perfect example.

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When Starbucks first came
out, it was the ethical brand.

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Not only did they show
that coffee can be hoi toi.

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You could feel great about yourself.

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You're paying more for coffee.

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It's a different experience and
not just in a local coffee shop.

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You are in some, like an establishment
that serves coffee and it serves

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great coffee and that's what you want.

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So you go after.

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But when they first came out, they
were also all about the environment.

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They had it in their values.

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And then all of a sudden they took it up.

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At first when they had their values
and they wanted to reduce their

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impact on the environment, they
were talking about moving away from

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plastic and all this kinda stuff.

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And then all of a sudden they took it out.

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Because it was gonna
affect their bottom line.

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And it doesn't necessarily mean, and
now they're fully plastic, like they

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said, or they came out, it was like,
oh yeah, we don't like plastic straws.

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We're not gonna have plastic straws.

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We're gonna make a top that's
plastic and we're gonna serve that.

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And that continues.

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And it's really hard to recycle.

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So that's not fun.

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That's not fun at all.

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That's not what we need.

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And according to the interview where
we talked to Sarah Federman, companies

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reach tipping points in different ways.

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Sometimes they start losing business.

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Sometimes public pressure
becomes too visible to ignore.

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You see campaigns all the time where
people are like, I don't like this

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business 'cause they didn't treat me well.

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Or, I don't like this business
because it's not ethical, or,

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I don't like this business.

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And they come up with
evidence and people like it.

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And sometimes there's
a movement behind it.

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Sometimes someone from inside the
company has a moral awakening and

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they start to reveal what's happening.

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Sometimes a personal
moment changes everything.

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You see it all the time.

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But that is important because it means
that there is no single magical tactic.

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Different companies respond to
different pressure points, and sometimes

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companies don't respond to anything.

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It all depends on the
environment they're surrounded.

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But some care about reputation,
some care about revenue, some

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care about the regulation.

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Some care when employees
starts pushing internally.

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Some only move when the next
generation asks hard questions.

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Cause sometimes like what we think is
normal in generation, like I'm Generation

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X. Sometimes what we think is normal.

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The millennials and Gen Z start pushing
back and be like, Hey, you know what?

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Actually that's not very good.

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We should be asking for better.

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And environmental movement is key to that.

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The key is figuring out what
matters most to those companies.

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Let's talk about Patagonia as an example.

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Patagonia became known for shifting
its mission beyond selling clothing.

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The company openly acknowledged
that business cannot

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thrive on a damaged planet.

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That's a huge mindset shift.

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Instead of asking, how do we grow no
matter what, the question became, how do

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we operate in service of something bigger?

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Not every company will be Patagonia.

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We know that for sure.

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Let's be realistic.

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But it proves that business models
can evolve when leadership decides

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purpose is not separate from profit.

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The B Corps is a huge program,
B corporations that really

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measure on employees, on social
and environmental change.

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It's an audit that companies go through.

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They pay to go through this audit
because it's important to their values.

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They may sell anything.

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I have one guy that I had on the
podcast who was an insurance salesman.

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He owned an insurance brokerage,
but he went through the B Corp

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process 'cause he wanted to be
on it 'cause he wanted his values

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and the people that work there
want to go through and want to

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have an ethical company, not only
from a social standpoint, but also

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from an environmental standpoint.

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And he sells insurance.

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It's not an environmental brand.

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He sells insurance.

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His team building was to go out and
help rebuild salmon and habitat.

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That's pretty cool.

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But it doesn't necessarily mean that
you have to be an environmental company.

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It doesn't mean that your product has to
benefit the environment right directly.

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Your values can benefit.

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I think that's an important point.

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Let's look, got another case study
like innovation from necessity.

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Another example that we talked with
Sarah Wi Jo Hill tomorrow was a carpet

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tile company facing the loss of a client
because of environmental concerns.

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That threat created urgency, like
the company changed materials,

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rethought its design and it innovated
because staying the same became

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more expensive than changing.

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That's what they cared about.

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That is the lesson many
Ocean advocates miss.

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We often ask companies to change
because it is right, but many

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change when it becomes necessary.

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So if you are a buyer, a company that
buys say, these tiles, well, you're

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not gonna buy it from this tile company
because they don't use the right

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tiles because they're not sustainable.

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They're actually bad for the environment.

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Well, they're not gonna change
because, oh, yeah, well,

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they're bad for the environment.

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They're gonna change because
they're losing business.

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I think that's an important
part of looking at how we can

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be environmentally friendly.

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Necessary can mean financial risk.

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Necessary can mean customer loss.

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Necessary can mean legal exposure.

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It could also mean talent
refusing to work there because

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of bad environmental practices.

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It could mean public trust collapsing.

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It could mean a number
of different things.

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I think it's interesting
when people boycott.

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Like one person quietly switching brands.

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It'll rarely change a
multinational corporation.

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Like if you drink Coke and you all of
a sudden you find out Coke is very bad

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for water practices and you go to Pepsi.

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They're not gonna notice
one person just changing.

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That's just the reality of the situation.

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But a coordinated pressure
can do make a difference.

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So like if thousands, if not
millions of customers leave and

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tell the company why, that matters.

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If investors ask questions, that matters.

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If media covers the
issue, that also matters.

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If employees organize internally, or even
if regulators respond, they all matter.

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It just depends on what you, as one of
those types of people decide what to do

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with your money, with where you consume
things, with where you purchase things,

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and how you're gonna purchase things.

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Like the individual access is not useless.

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It becomes powerful when
connected to others.

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And we talked about that
on Monday's episode.

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It is true for everything.

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It's true for plastic pollution, seafood
sourcing, destructive coastal development,

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and even Ocean climate policy.

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I think people need to really
understand that adding pressure to

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a company can change their behavior.

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There aren't many examples I can
think of off the top of my head

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other than the one that we talked
about with this tile company

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where a tile company changed their
practices, what tiles they use

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because the purchaser wants something
more environmentally friendly.

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There was one guy I interviewed.

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He created an environmentally friendly
cement that you can put underwater and you

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can build reefs off of it in restoration
projects that are happening everywhere.

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They're happening all around the world.

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But that doesn't happen because like when
people are just buying regular concrete

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and putting in the water and then they're
like, well this doesn't really work.

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Or people are like, why would you
buy that when you have this other

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environmentally friendly concrete

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that's made in a better way and it's
better for the reefs when we rebuild.

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Why would I buy this bad one when I can
buy this one that works just as well?

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People coming up with these
types of innovations really help.

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If a company is harming the
Ocean, ask yourself like, what

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is their tipping point?

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Is it customer trust?

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Is it brand image?

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Is it losing contracts?

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Is it recruiting talent?

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Maybe the regulation.

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Is it pressure from
investors or shareholders?

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Once you know that, your
advocacy becomes smarter.

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That's what a lot of these
organizations are looking for.

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They're getting inside the businesses.

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They're getting inside, like what
happens against inside their head,

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like what matters most to them.

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So instead of just saying, Hey,
you need to do better, you gotta

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target the thing that actually moves
'em, that actually matters to them.

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This is how you beat frustration.

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That's the strategy.

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You gotta look at what matters most.

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So here are three practical
moves you can do today.

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You can be specific.

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You can tell companies
exactly what you want changed.

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You can do it as a collective,
like be collective.

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Join campaigns, organizations, or
community efforts instead of acting alone.

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And you can be persistent.

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One message may be ignored.

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But if you sustain pressure, that
changes the timeline, especially

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if you do it in a collective voice.

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You don't need to be louder.

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You need to be more strategic.

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You need to think like a
notion organization, like a

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nonprofit organization and
like an advocacy organization.

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So companies don't change usually
because they suddenly care.

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That's made in the movies.

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They change when enough people,
enough pressure, enough risk,

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and/or enough vision or all of those
makes staying the same, impossible.

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And when that moment comes,
everything can change fast.

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Like it could come from the billionaire
who made money off of Patagonia is all

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of a sudden saying, Hey, you know what?

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The way we make clothes
is really wasteful.

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We need to change our practices.

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We need to give all of our profits
from now on to someone else

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'cause I've made enough money.

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We've all made enough money.

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So the question is not whether
change is actually possible.

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The question is how do we help
create the tipping point for

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businesses to make that change?

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I would love to hear
your thoughts on this.

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You can hit me up on Speak
Up for blue.com/feedback.

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I'd love to hear either voicemail
or you can type in your information.

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I'd love to get back to you 'cause
this is the start of a conversation.

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I am trying to inspire you to think about
what change looks like and how we can

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protect our planet during this Earth Week.

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Because right now there are thousands
of people who are gathering in a

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conference room at EARTHx to talk
about this as businesses, individuals,

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nonprofit organizations, for-profit
organizations, projects, academics.

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They're all gathering and trying to figure
out, what's everybody's tipping point?

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How are we gonna change this thing?

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How are we gonna help the earth?

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How are we gonna help the planet?

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How are we gonna fight against
like these government rollbacks?

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How are we gonna build leaders for
the future to make sure that these

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government rollbacks never happen
again and we make these regulations

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stronger so that they can't be changed.

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It's not just by executive order of a
president or a prime minister or whoever.

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How do we make sure that environment
is on the tip of everybody's

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tongues and on their minds?

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' cause that's what's really important.

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That's what people are doing at EARTHx.

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I want you to do the same thing after
you listen to this or while you're

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listening to this podcast, and I'd
love to hear about it 'cause this is

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the start of a conversation I would love

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for you to continue it back at
me 'cause that's why I started

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this podcast in the first place.

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And this is the How To
Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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And I'm your host Andrew Lewin.

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I wanna thank you so much
for joining us today.

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Have a great day.

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Can't wait to hear from
you and happy conservation.