5,000 New Species Prove the "Ocean Desert" Deep Sea Mining Claim Is Wrong

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I have a question for you.

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What happens when the person who
is trying to convince you a place

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is empty has never actually
gone and checked what's there?

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There's one man's quote that gets
repeated in a major magazine versus

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what scientists actually found when
they went and looked for themselves.

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So what this is telling us here is that
when someone says a quote in a major

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magazine, it gets taken out of context,
and it gets put all over the world.

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And everybody, your family members, your
friends are like, "Oh, yeah, but isn't

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there anything? There's nothing there."
There's like, this quote said this

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thing, and this guy's a professional.

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He is a business person, a CEO for a DC
mining company, and he says that there's

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nothing there, so he's gotta be right.

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Why would he lie?

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Why would he lie?

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What does he have to gain from lying?

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Well, apparently, millions and millions
and millions of dollars, and that's

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essentially what's happened here.

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So today, on the How to Protect
the Ocean podcast, we're gonna be

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talking about this quote that he made.

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We're gonna go through the quote.

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I mentioned it yesterday in the
Gerard Barron pattern, what I call

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the CEOs of natural resource companies
that want to exploit and don't

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really care about the ramifications.

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It's not just against him, but it's just,
like, some of the things that these CEOs

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do that really tick me off because it
just, like, whatever they say, people are

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assuming that they are experts and that
they know what they're talking about in

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certain situations in which we really
don't, 'cause some scientists, including

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myself, really don't know what's down
there, you know, until we see the facts.

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And today, that's exactly
what we're gonna go through.

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After we talk about his quote and his
claim, we're gonna talk about the facts.

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If you like this kind of stuff, follow
the podcast to hear more 'cause we're

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gonna be covering stories like this a lot.

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Like, not necessarily where someone's
making a claim that's not right, although

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that happens quite a bit, but we're gonna
talk about the ocean, ocean news, ocean

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science, ocean conservation in a fun way.

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And this is a new style
that I'm trying this week.

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I hope you enjoy it, storytelling style.

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and I really like it.

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I like doing it, so I'm gonna continue,
but I'd love to hear your thoughts too.

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My links to socials are in the show notes.

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All right, here's the claim.

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In September 2021, in Time Magazine,
they profiled Gerard Baron, the CEO

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of the Metals Company, it's TMC, and
his push to mine the Clarion-Clipperton

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Zone, a stretch of international
seabed between Hawaii and Mexico.

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Barron told the Time Magazine directly,
and this is a quote, "If we started

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mining over again, knowing what we
know now, surely we could carry out

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extractive industries in parts of the
planet where there was the least life.

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We wouldn't go to the rainforest;
we would go to the deserts.

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That's exactly what we have here in the
CCZ, the Clarion-Clipperton Zone, the

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most desert-like place on the planet.

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It just happens to be covered by
4,000 meters of water." End quote.

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That's a direct quote.

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He's basically calling the deep sea,
the Clarion-Clipperton Zone, a desert.

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So is it a desert?

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If we sit here and read that, and I tell
you that quote, and we sit here without

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challenging that sounds reasonable.

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Like, we know that the deep sea, from
what we know of before, it's really few

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and far between that we see animals.

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The anglerfish, deep sea sharks
like sevengill sharks, and things

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like that are found at the bottom,
goblin sharks, all these different

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species, the dumbo octopus.

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But they're not found all together in
these habitats that we know of ' cause

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we always see them individually.

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We go based on what we see, what we know.

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But it's worth taking a serious look
at the evidence of what has been

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found, especially in this area.

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'Cause you know what?

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In 2016, there was a study that was
done in the Clarion-Clipperton Zone, the

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CCZ, and we're gonna talk about that.

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Cause, like, here's what, like, real
surveys in that zone have actually

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measured, not just estimates, not just
saying, "Hey, there's nothing there."

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Like, the actual counts from images
and physical samples taken on site.

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So for the larger animals, the megafauna,
one major 2016 survey of the CCZ, the

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Clarion-Clipperton Zone, found an
average abundance of 1.8 individuals

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per square meter of seafloor.

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These are, like, larger animals.

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Like, the ones that you would see,
so, like, 1.48 individuals per square

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meter, that means that's a pretty
dense area for larger animals, like

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the larger fish and things like that.

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For the smaller animals living in the
sediment, like the macrofauna, you're

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looking at typical abundance across
the CCZ nodule regions, which is what's

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gonna be mined, runs between 200
and 500 individuals per square meter.

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We're looking at, like, macroinvertebrates
and things like that, like worms and crabs

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and shrimp and all that kind of stuff.

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One specific Korean-led survey in
the region documented 183 distinct

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macrobenthic species from just 36
core samples at a mean density of

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257 individuals per square meter.

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Does that sound like a desert?

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Like I'm not overselling it here.

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Like, these densities, they're
generally low compared to coral reefs and

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rainforests, so you see that a lot more.

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But you're not looking at that comparison.

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We're looking at what's called
a desert, which really implies

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like near absence of life.

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When somebody says, "Yeah, it's
like a desert out there. If we

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mine there, we're not gonna bother
anything." That's not true here.

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We're looking at pretty dense
areas in the deep sea that we

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didn't really think was that dense.

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And what they show, instead of low
density paired with exceptional

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diversity, hundreds of species
identified from a small number of samples.

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The majority of them still
undescribed in science.

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They're new.

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There are real direct before and after
comparisons available now of this, right?

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Not a hypothetical one.

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So 2025 study examined an actual
industrial deep-sea mining trial conducted

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in the CCZ, found that the machine's
track left behind 37% lower macrofaunal

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density and 32% lower species richness,
that means number of species, compared

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to the nearby untouched seafloor.

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So we're looking at evidence
now where there's been samples.

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We've seen that there is a density,
not as high as like coral reefs,

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which is like one of the highest
diverse habitats in the world.

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But we're seeing dense.

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This is not a desert.

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This is something where there's
animals that are living, and they

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are there for a function of some sort.

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We just don't know yet, but
they're there for a function.

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And we're doing these tests, and
we're seeing that there's animals

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there, and we're seeing that these
are like biologically productive

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areas and areas where we don't even
know these species existed before.

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Like insane to see, you know, that
you're gonna be disturbing things.

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And the species that are there that we
don't know about could be helping the

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human race at some point in time with
vaccines or our health to help us get

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over like cancers and things like that.

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We have no idea, no idea
what these things can do.

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Now, some people like thought
the claim was believable.

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So the CCZ sits about 4,000 meters
below the surface, so far past the

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reach of sunlight, so nobody can see.

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It's cold.

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There's high pressured water.

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And to the untrained eye and even
early photography of the area, the

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sea floor looks like it's an endless
plain of mud dotted with rocks.

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So like all they saw were these nodules.

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So for decades, deep abyssal
plains like this one were assumed

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by many to be biologically sparse
compared to shallower sunlit areas.

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That's what it was.

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So like you had these older pictures
that we couldn't do the sampling that we

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are doing now, and we just didn't have
the technology to be down there to not

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cause a ruckus to see these animals.

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And so it looked like it was
biologically a desert, right?

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I get it.

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I get it.

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But like in 2023, research at
the UK's Natural History Museum

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funded by the Pew Charitable Trust,
published the first comprehensive

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species inventory of the CCZ.

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This is the area that they're going to
target for deep sea mining, so this is the

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area that has been focused on the most.

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The count came to more than 5,000
species documented in the zone,

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including sea cucumbers, corals,
glass sponges, and various worms.

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Corals and glass sponges, these
are habitat-forming species.

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Somewhere between 88 and 92% of
those species had never been recorded

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anywhere else before, meaning that
they were completely new to science.

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So you're going from desert to 88 to
92% of the 5,000 species that were found

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had never been described by science.

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That's a pretty high percentage.

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Not a desert, that's for sure.

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The species discovery
still haven't stopped.

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In 2026, researchers described 24
new amphipod species from the CCZ.

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This is the same region, including a
species representing an entirely new super

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family and family, and a genuinely rare
kind of discovery in modern taxonomy.

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Like, roughly 90% of all the species
found in the CCZ remain formally

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unnamed even now, 'cause it takes a
while to name them and describe them,

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years after the mining companies began
pushing for the start of extraction.

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Now, the International Seabed Authority
itself launched an initiative called

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the 1000 Reasons, aiming to formally
describe 1,000 new deep sea species by

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2030, specifically because so much of
what lives there is still undocumented.

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This is the Seabed Authority.

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This is the International Seabed Authority
that is responsible for creating the

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regulations for deep sea mining, and now
they want to be able to describe these

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species, at least 1,000 species, DC
species, so that we can know what's there.

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The same agency that's responsible for
regulating mining in the exact same zone

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is also running a campaign to acknowledge
that there's little known about this area,

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and that's why, like tomorrow's episode,
you're gonna hear from Matthew Gianni

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of why there is so much skepticism about
whether deep sea mining is a good idea.

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If it's economically
viable, it's even worth it.

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But from an environmental
standpoint, is it gonna be too

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damaging where we just can't recover?

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So now one of the things here is
what's actually making deep sea

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mining possible, is like what lives
in the CZ and why it all lives there.

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So the polymetallic nodules that Barron's
company wants to mine, they're not just

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valuable rocks sitting on empty mud.

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They're not just there for them
to be plucked so that we can use.

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They are themselves the reason so
much life exists in that environment.

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Beyond that they produce
oxygen study that happened.

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The sea floor in that zone is otherwise
soft sediment, and most deep sea

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animals can't attach to the mud.

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That's why a lot of these areas look
like they're just quote unquote, deserts.

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So the nodule provides something
rare in the deep abyss.

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It has a hard surface to grow on.

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So a 2016 study by friend of the podcast,
Dr. Diva Amon and colleagues published in

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Scientific Reports that was led out of
the University of Hawaii at Manoa, found

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that more than half of the megafaunal
species living in these nodule fields

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depend on the nodules directly as a hard
substrate to attach to and survive on.

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Like, now we're looking at the nodules
that we're looking to take, these

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animals are literally living on them.

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So yes, you are going
to be killing species.

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We know that for a fact, not only
from the actual operations of these

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machines, but you're actually gonna
be taking animals that need these

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nodules, and you're gonna be killing
them 'cause you're gonna be taking them

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off as you bring them up to the surface.

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So the same study found more than half
of the species collected during the

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survey were entirely new to science.

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So again, more new to the
science, more rare species,

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more damage to the environment.

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Now, a separate line of research
measured raw abundance rather than

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species count and found nodule-dwelling
animals can make up to 60 to 70%

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of the total number of individual
creatures present in nodule fields.

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Now, all of these indications
really start to point that we are

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going to damage the environment.

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The nodules that they're actually
targeting in this area are the

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very habitat that is expected from
many of the species, like 60 to

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70% of those species in that area.

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That's just talking about, like,
the animals that are there.

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A follow-up food web modeling study
estimated that removing the nodules

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could cause a loss of up to 18% of all
species or taxa present in the CCZ.

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So the rocks he's, like the areas
where he's calling a desert that these

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rocks sit on, far more than half of
the animals living there, it's the

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only reason they can live there.

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So removing the nodules doesn't just
disturb the area, it actually takes

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out all of the species, like the
habitat itself for those species.

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And this is what they're there for.

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This is what they're gonna be grabbing.

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Now, scientific studies have
specifically identified what

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are called nodule-dependent
or nodule-obligate species.

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It's the animals that rely on those
nodules for some essential part of

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their life history, whether it's
their adult life or whether as

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they're developing into an adult.

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And it cannot just simply
relocate if the nodules are gone.

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So like they need to be, they
need to have the nodules.

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All this puts like a number on what
disappears if mining proceeds at a scale.

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So it's not just the claim of a desert,
it's like this is what's gonna happen

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because if you take these nodules, which
you're targeting for this money, then

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you are going to destroy the environment.

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We know this for a fact.

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It's not a small fraction, it's
more than half of the larger

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animal species in these fields.

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And that's according to that
Diva Amon study in 2016.

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Now, other research confirms that
nodules provide the hard substrate

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that suspension feeding and
stationary animals like sponges and

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cnidarians depend on, so corals.

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And these are the very animal groups that
dominate the megafauna in Eastern CCZ.

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So like again, we're seeing
this hit every single time.

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A CEO comes in, so it's like my claim
yesterday that these CEOs come in

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and they say, "Hey, you know what?

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We're not gonna do any damage.

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Don't worry about it.

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We're fine.

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Like it's a desert down there." And the
scientist is like, "Well, we're gonna

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call your bluff on that and we're gonna
go down there ' cause we think we wanna

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know what's there, and then we're gonna
just take it all up and we're founding."

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So like if we go back to the Baron's
own words from the opening of this

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episode, " The CCZ is the most desert-like
place on the planet." And then now

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we have all the evidence, over 5,000
species documented and still climbing.

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Roughly 90% of them are entirely
new to science, and more than half

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of the larger animal species there
depend directly on the very nodules

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that the company wants to remove.

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When I say that we don't know the damage
that's gonna be done in the deep sea, in

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this particular case, we know the damage
that's gonna be done in the deep sea.

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And it's probably why the Metals
Company is not pursuing deep

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sea mining through the ISA, the
International Seabed Authority.

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They decided to go with the Trump
administration because everything

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they say, all the claims that they
make have been debunked, especially

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in the Clarion-Clipperton Zone.

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So now they're going a different route.

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They're going to the Trump
administration, who we know they

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don't care about the environment.

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All they care about is making
money, and for the country,

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or for themselves, who knows?

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Allegedly.

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They're already showing that they're
gonna pursue with these leases.

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TMC's got major investments going,
and if they get this lease that's

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coming up in the Northern Mariana
Islands, their stock is gonna go up.

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Now again, I said yesterday, whether
they decide to continue to mine, like

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to actually do the deep sea mine, or
they just sell their stock because

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it's gone up, that's another story.

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But I guarantee you that if Barron
can make money, he will make

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money from whatever he can do.

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And as the ISA, you're gonna hear
tomorrow from Matthew Gianni, as

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the ISA kinda concluded, we don't
really know if there's economic

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sustainability in deep sea mining.

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Because the way things are going,
the claim for deep sea mining is

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to help perpetuate the EV market.

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Grow the EV market by making more
batteries through critical minerals,

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and by taking the pressure off
of land mining in rainforests

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like human rights violations.

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Yet these batteries are getting
better and more efficient, and

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they're depending less on the metals
that are being mined in these areas.

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So what do we do?

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Right?

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What do we do?

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Is this really worth it?

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Is it really gonna be worth it?

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Not to mention that this US effort
right now in the Northern Mariana

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Islands, they haven't really consulted
with the local people and government

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of the Northern Mariana Islands.

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And this is happening right off of their
shore, where there's a marine protected

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area called the Mariana Trench, right?

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Which is one of the
deepest parts of the world.

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There's no consultation on
how the people will benefit.

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There's no indication of sharing
of profits to the local people.

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but they're gonna take the brunt
of the consequences, just like I

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said yesterday Papua New Guinea
did, if things don't work out.

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So really it's up to you.

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There's a lot of pressure
on what's happening here.

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Deep sea mining doesn't look like
it's gonna be economically viable, and

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that's according to the International
Seabed Authority, not just scientists.

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These are regulators, these are
business like economists and things

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like that, that are all a part of this.

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It's a UN body.

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Yet the US government is like, "Hey,
we can do this. We can make money.

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We can do this," although we don't
even know if we can make money.

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We just know that the stocks will
go up if there's an indication

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that we are going to do something.

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And so, we know that's gonna
damage the environment, like a lot.

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In my opinion, there's really
nothing to do but to vote this down.

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And for those of you who are in the US and
you have a chance to vote this November

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or the elections that are ongoing as we
speak, I highly recommend that you vote.

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If you are listening to this,
you care about the environment,

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or you're interested at least.

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00:15:38,685 --> 00:15:40,545
And it's really up to the policymakers.

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There have been lots of cases and lots
of committee meetings, Senate and House

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00:15:46,009 --> 00:15:50,169
committee meetings on deep sea mining, and
there's a lot of information there that

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shows that this is not a very good idea
or we don't even know the ramifications

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economically and socially for the people
who are around these areas, the Northern

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Mariana Islands, the American Samoa.

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00:16:00,015 --> 00:16:03,975
Yet this government continues to
ignore those people's concerns.

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And when they did the request for
information and feedback from the

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00:16:07,332 --> 00:16:11,962
public, over 60,000 people said, "We
don't want this. We're concerned."

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00:16:12,395 --> 00:16:14,985
And like three or four comments said
that they're okay with it, and they

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doubled the actual size of the lease.

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It just doesn't make sense.

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And so the November elections,
the midterms are coming up.

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There could be a significant change.

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I'm Canadian, I'm not here to manipulate
or influence in any kind of way.

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00:16:27,082 --> 00:16:30,112
But if you wanna save the environment,
especially that, and you care about

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00:16:30,112 --> 00:16:33,852
some territories in the US that, have
become very important and take the

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00:16:33,852 --> 00:16:37,432
brunt of the consequences from
decisions that have been made over

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00:16:37,442 --> 00:16:41,312
decades and decades and decades of
bad decision-making by the US federal

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00:16:41,312 --> 00:16:42,619
government, this is your chance.

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00:16:43,233 --> 00:16:44,583
So I'd love to hear your thoughts.

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00:16:44,853 --> 00:16:48,283
Hit me up in my socials on
TikTok, Instagram, Facebook.

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00:16:48,406 --> 00:16:50,696
Love to hear your thought, or
on LinkedIn if you can find me.

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00:16:50,909 --> 00:16:53,179
But other than that, yeah, I'd
love to hear your thoughts.

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00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:57,073
Share this with somebody that you know
would enjoy this, and don't forget to

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00:16:57,073 --> 00:16:58,723
hit, hit the follow, and please vote.

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00:16:59,023 --> 00:16:59,853
Please vote this year.

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00:17:00,246 --> 00:17:03,046
And I wanna thank you so much for
joining me on today's episode of the

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00:17:03,046 --> 00:17:04,376
How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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00:17:04,593 --> 00:17:05,673
I am your host, Andrew Lewin.

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Have a great day.

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We'll talk to you next time,
and happy conservation.