What Happens to Fish When Our Pills Reach the Water?

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Welcome back to another episode of the
Ocean Leader Podcast,

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the podcast that helps you get your ocean
project to the next level,

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to be successful, and to have a great
ocean impact.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. I'm the Ocean
Communications Manager

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at Pisces Oceans because the Ocean Leader
Podcast is a Pisces podcast.

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Today on the podcast, we have PJ
Swieswerda of Gotham Whale.

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Now, if you don't know what who Gotham
Whale is or what Gotham Whale is,

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it is an organization that works to find
out what like research,

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monitor, and help marine mammals in New
York City Harbor.

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What? Marine mammals in New York City
Harbor?

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Isn't it polluted? Not anymore.

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And the whales have come back because the
menhaden,

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the fish have come back, and we have seen.

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An amazing community just grow back to the
health and ecosystem that

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it was pre-industrialized era.

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And New York has helped do that by
cleaning up its harbor,

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by cleaning up its rivers and the Hudson
River and the harbor And it's been amazing

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to see. And Gotham Whale was born out of
that.

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And its founder, Paul, started this,

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and his his story is absolutely amazing.

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And I think what happens when we become
ocean leaders,

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we become

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so focused in on our own story that we
sometimes lose that inspiration because
we're

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stuck in a part of our growth of an
organization or of an ocean project.

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And we we have to look outside for more
inspiration.

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And Paul Swierswerda's story is an
inspirational one.

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And you know, working in the aquarium
field at in in Boston at

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the New England aquarium and in New York
City aquarium.

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For over 40 years combined, and then he
retiring,

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and then starting an organization like
Gotham Whale is absolutely riveting.

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But I I don't want to tell you that all
the details because his son,

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PJ, is here to tell his father's legacy of
starting Gotham Whale and just

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who he was as a person, being
inspirational and also inspiring people to
come out.

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And monitor whales as part of a citizen
science program.

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You're gonna find out about Gotham Whale.

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You're gonna find out most importantly
about the man who started it,

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Paul Swieswerda and you're going to love
this story.

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I hope it helps inspire you get out and
participate either for Gotham Whale

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or for another citizen science project
that you are close to,

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or even your own project and help develop
your own.

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project as an ocean leader and as an ocean
project so you can have more

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of an ocean impact. So here is PJ
Swieswerda talking about the ~ legacy

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of his dad Paul and Gotham whale.

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Enjoy and I'll talk to you after.

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Hey PJ, welcome to the Ocean Leaders
podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about the legacy
that is Gotham?

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Yes, I am very ready and love talking
about Gotham Wheel and love talking about

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the the legacy that my father created and
then ~ I was fortunate enough

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to watch develop and ~ s see what it it it
it balls into.

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I love it. I think this is a really
interesting perspective because you know,

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this is what we call the Ocean Leader
podcast.

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We talk a lot about ocean leaders,

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but a lot of times we talk to the ocean
leaders,

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you know, who started things and who are
running things.

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You have a really interesting perspective
in that you saw your father,

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an ocean leader within himself,

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be able to work at an aquarium for his
entire you know career.

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You watch that growing up as a kid.

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Have a lot of stories which will get into,

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you know, of you being watching him at the
aquarium and visiting him

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at the aquarium to through with his job.

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And then he starts Gotham Whale.

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So I I I would I'm really interested in
getting your perspective,

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what that looks like from someone who's
not in the in the business or

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who wasn't in the business and looking
from the outside in to be like,

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this is really cool. Like we're starting
to see all these whales,

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and we're starting to see like all these
marine mammals were tracking them.

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and and to watch your dad kind of build
that into this legacy that we

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now have for in Gotham Whale in New York
City is absolutely amazing.

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So I'm looking forward to really diving
into this story because

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it really gives people a different
perspective of what it's like to look

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at how ocean leaders kind of develop from
it from you know within a family

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and and see how that is with your with
your dad.

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So let's start, you know, kind of from the
beginning.

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You how long did your dad work at the at
the aquarium,

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at the New York Aquarium?

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The New York aquarium, I believe it was 20
plus years.

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I'm not exactly sure how many,

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but it was 20 plus in New York and then 20
in Boston.

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So it was, you know, a split.

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Wow.

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So ~ it's very interesting, like you said,

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for me to be an observer watching this
whole journey and what you know what came

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out of it. And then, you know,

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from a layman's point of view,

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not being in the ~ scientific or the the
marine biology and

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Dad could tell you the the Latin names of
different animals,

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where ~

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Right.

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I'm unfortunately I I cannot. But

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Yeah.

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he was very knowledgeable and ~ it all
started,

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you know, if you turn the turn the clock
and the watch back,

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is ~ watching Jacques Cousteau,

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you know. So he was inspired by Jacques
Cousteau like many other

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~ marine scientists and marine biologists
back in that era,

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where

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Mm-hmm.

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Jacques Cousteau was

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exploring the underwater world.

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And, you know, we what he'd watch them on
TV.

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And, you know, I can have vague memories
of,

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you know, him watching those shows and
getting inspired.

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And then I can also remember, you know,

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his dive watch. And that's where I go to,

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you know, this precious thing called time,

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you know, what you do with your time.

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And what my dad decided to do with his
time was invest in ~ learning about

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the oceans and the creatures in it.

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And

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At

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that time the Boston aquarium was being
built.

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And so it was very convenient.

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And maybe by divine intervention,

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it just ~ attributed to the fact that he
showed up there and said,

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How do I get involved in this?

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And ~ that developed into a career,

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but also just being around that
environment.

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Mm-hmm.

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it's it's amazing to see what grew out of
it.

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I love that. I love that story.

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Did he go to school for marine biology or
was this something where

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he learned through experience?

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It's it's it's all through experience.

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He he does he did not have a degree in it.

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it was all self taught

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Crazy. That's awesome.

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and ~ it was self taught by ~ also again
being in that environment and then

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Yeah.

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then mentors and other people in the field
that coddled

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him into different ~ aspects of this is
the way you should go.

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And you know,

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Mm-hmm.

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one of them, ~ one of the stories that I
do remember was Doc Edgerton.

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And so I don't know if you're familiar
with Doc Edgerton.

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He's the flash photographer guy that,

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you know, took all sorts of pictures of ~
bullets going through apples

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and what have you. And so

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Okay. Right.

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it was, it was ~ he developed ~ Flash
Alley.

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And my dad went to Flash Alley at MIT and
just by hanging around that

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environment, got to meet Doc Edgerton and
became not a ~ understudy,

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but

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He he observed the fact that my father was
interested and he led him into this world

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of ~ Flash Alley and you know,

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that inspired my father at a young age to
say that he was on the right track.

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That's unreal. So how old did you think he
was at this at this time?

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I

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I'd say he was probably in his early
twenties.

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Yeah.

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That's so cool. That's so cool.

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So he's just following these different
paths.

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Like people are telling him, like,

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hey, go follow this person or go talk to
this person.

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You should check out this area of of
study.

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And and he was just taking it all in like
a sponge.

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Absorb yeah, absorbing it like a sponge
and then also,

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you know, taking it upon himself to
understand what he could learn out

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of it and understand how he could ~ build
off of it.

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And you know, hard work pays off is

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Yeah.

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you know the motto. And he would go to the
aquarium starting as a volunteer

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and that got him to a job and he used to
say that he worked up to middle
management,

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you know, worked

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Yeah.

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his way to worked his way to the middle.

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And then ~ after 20 years, moved down to
New York and built off his career

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in a different angle that went to
different places ~ around Europe.

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So he was doing like European ~
conferences and

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Wow.

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learning

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learning about accreditations for
aquariums throughout

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Right.

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~ throughout the world and how they did
their exhibits.

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So that

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Mm-hmm.

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learning curve was something that,

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you know.

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He was fortunate enough to be around and
and build off of.

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amazing what kind of of like day-to-day
activities would he be doing would

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he be helping creating the the exhibits
and the in the habitats or would

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he be more managing like the people that
are that are around that how would

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all that work

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From from my memory, it was a a bit of
both.

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And so, you know, it was it was people
skills and managing people,

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but also developing new cutting edge
exhibits,

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you know, so you know, building the
exhibits to,

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you know, have for the public so they
could ~ appreciate and learn from what
they

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were trying to ~ depict on what the
exhibit was supposed to be behind.

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You know, so there was one exhibit that I
do remember.

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Which was a a a tidal tidal wave pool
where it was

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Yeah.

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just ~ waves coming crashing into the into
the rocks and all sorts

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of anemones just flapping back and forth
and you know,

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it's creating an environment that is real
life.

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And so to

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Yeah.

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get to get the technology to do that back
in that era was again cutting edge

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and trying to f trial and error,

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figure these things out and work through
the bugs.

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And and you and it's a it's a mi I feel
like it's also,

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and you can correct me if I'm wrong,

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it's a mix of the knowledge that you that
he accrued throughout,

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you know, knowing how the physics works in
in terms of how like the

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the the waves would come in and go out,

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but also how to construct these these
things as well.

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So there's like a construction background
as well as the knowledge of

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the physics of the oceanography,

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and and that's what he's been pulling in
all this way.

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Was like was he handy that way in terms of
of like he can make a lot

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of stuff and then can in like
construction?

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He wa he was handy in that way,

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but he was also handy in getting the right
people to do the right things.

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So, you know, so you know,

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back then there was different materials,

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you know, acrylics were just coming out.

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Mm-hmm. Yeah.

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So there was

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all sorts of ~ he started ~ a side
business,

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which was ~ something that I was
affiliated with,

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which was called Aquatic Associates.

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And so

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Okay.

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what we would do is we would go around to
different ~ different restaurants or

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~ dentist offices that would have

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Yep. Yep.

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displays. And my father knew how to care
for the animals,

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you know, the the fish with diseases and
what have you,

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Mm-hmm.

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but

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also he knew how to build the exhibits.

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So it was something that he would ~ bring
that knowledge to that aspect

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Yeah.

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of how to build fish tanks. And so
building fish tanks meant,

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you know, what type of glass or acrylics

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Yeah.

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were coming out. So that that was

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very interesting back then to be an
observer like myself in my background

239
00:11:44,438 --> 00:11:47,122
of like to build things and carpentry and,

240
00:11:47,122 --> 00:11:49,285
you know, I fit well with that.

241
00:11:49,285 --> 00:11:52,450
And then I was a hired hand in in

242
00:11:52,195 --> 00:11:53,195
Yeah.

243
00:11:53,015 --> 00:11:56,757
But I mean like and that's during the time
like I was a I'm a I

244
00:11:56,757 --> 00:11:58,637
was a marine hobbyist for quite some time,

245
00:11:58,637 --> 00:12:01,799
like probably from like the mid-2000s till
the mid-2017s.

246
00:12:01,799 --> 00:12:06,981
And you know, it it the the amount of
knowledge that people accrued over that
time

247
00:12:06,981 --> 00:12:12,162
of of how to bring in like marine tanks
and and how to take care of corals

248
00:12:12,162 --> 00:12:13,363
and the lighting and everything.

249
00:12:13,574 --> 00:12:16,746
But your dad had all that knowledge from
like the beginning,

250
00:12:16,746 --> 00:12:19,889
like from like for 40 years. He was ~ he
had that knowledge.

251
00:12:19,889 --> 00:12:21,520
So he had that one up on people.

252
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,882
Like if I were at a dentist, I was a
dentist,

253
00:12:23,882 --> 00:12:26,964
I'd be like, yeah, I'm bringing in the the
the crew that you know is

254
00:12:26,964 --> 00:12:30,167
is at the aquarium, like the big aquarium
knows how to handle the animals,

255
00:12:30,167 --> 00:12:32,058
knows how to build it right. I mean,

256
00:12:32,058 --> 00:12:34,240
that is credibility to no end.

257
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,993
Like the guy that that's on the forefront
of creating these things

258
00:12:37,993 --> 00:12:40,935
and making sure they work at at like large
scales,

259
00:12:40,935 --> 00:12:42,507
because these aquariums are like the,

260
00:12:42,507 --> 00:12:43,507
you know, the

261
00:12:43,097 --> 00:12:45,928
The the the Boston aquarium probably
turned into the New England aquarium

262
00:12:46,008 --> 00:12:47,868
and the New York aquarium. These aren't
little aquariums,

263
00:12:47,868 --> 00:12:50,549
these are full scale public aquariums,

264
00:12:50,549 --> 00:12:53,490
like amazing displays, you know,

265
00:12:53,490 --> 00:12:54,930
world renowned. And like you said,

266
00:12:54,930 --> 00:12:56,851
going to different conferences and stuff.

267
00:12:56,851 --> 00:13:00,832
That's pretty cool. Before you started
working with your dad,

268
00:13:00,832 --> 00:13:04,113
did you often visit him at work?

269
00:13:04,113 --> 00:13:06,314
Like, were you one of those kids who are
like,

270
00:13:06,314 --> 00:13:09,695
I want to go see dad? I want to go see
what he's doing and maybe look around

271
00:13:09,695 --> 00:13:11,295
at some of the some of the exhibits and

272
00:13:11,705 --> 00:13:13,913
He'll take you around, maybe do a little
behind the scenes tour.

273
00:13:14,624 --> 00:13:19,516
So that was my childhood is I was
fortunate enough to

274
00:13:18,296 --> 00:13:19,426
Yeah, I can imagine.

275
00:13:19,516 --> 00:13:24,328
be around that environment where going
behind the scenes and him being

276
00:13:24,328 --> 00:13:26,729
a teacher would be something that,

277
00:13:26,729 --> 00:13:32,422
you know, we were ~ fortunate enough to
have for friends in

278
00:13:32,422 --> 00:13:34,853
the neighborhood of hey, let's go see,

279
00:13:34,853 --> 00:13:40,665
you know, Paul's dad at work. And I was I
don't want to say ignorant,

280
00:13:40,665 --> 00:13:42,246
but I wasn't really

281
00:13:43,062 --> 00:13:45,163
understanding the magnitude of it,

282
00:13:45,163 --> 00:13:46,163
you know,

283
00:13:45,391 --> 00:13:46,391
Mm-hmm.

284
00:13:45,984 --> 00:13:48,064
that it was just dad. It wasn't

285
00:13:47,908 --> 00:13:48,908
Yeah.

286
00:13:48,245 --> 00:13:52,787
it wasn't, you know, he did his thing and
my friends thought it was interesting,

287
00:13:52,787 --> 00:13:56,679
but ~ he would bring them in and we would
go behind the scenes and

288
00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,360
he would show them how the mechanics work
of the plumbing

289
00:13:59,673 --> 00:14:00,673
Yeah.

290
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:05,853
and those type of things. And then also
educate about the animals on what they

291
00:14:06,273 --> 00:14:07,534
do and how they live.

292
00:14:08,316 --> 00:14:10,708
That's amazing. And I could I could
completely see that too.

293
00:14:10,708 --> 00:14:12,690
Like that's that's your dad. So that's
just dad.

294
00:14:12,690 --> 00:14:14,821
Dad's doing his work. That's what you know
he does.

295
00:14:14,821 --> 00:14:17,994
That's you know, it's like when they ask
actors what their kids think

296
00:14:17,994 --> 00:14:20,206
of them being in in these movies and
stuff.

297
00:14:20,206 --> 00:14:21,697
They're like, no, they don't care that I
was in a movie.

298
00:14:21,697 --> 00:14:23,108
They just think I'm mom, I'm dad.

299
00:14:23,108 --> 00:14:25,230
Like that's that's what they that's what
they think.

300
00:14:25,230 --> 00:14:26,943
It's the same kind of thing. But your
friends are probably like,

301
00:14:26,943 --> 00:14:28,893
this is really cool. We get to see all
this,

302
00:14:28,893 --> 00:14:31,896
all this mechanics behind the scenes and
these animals,

303
00:14:31,896 --> 00:14:33,177
and we get to see them up close.

304
00:14:33,177 --> 00:14:35,799
That that's a pretty I I could I could
completely see.

305
00:14:36,489 --> 00:14:39,967
how that happens. Now, as you kind of grew
older into into your teenage,

306
00:14:39,967 --> 00:14:42,573
were you born in in in Boston or were you
born in New York?

307
00:14:42,573 --> 00:14:45,079
Born in Boston.

308
00:14:42,967 --> 00:14:45,099
I was born in Boston, born and raised in

309
00:14:45,339 --> 00:14:49,782
Maldon Mass, my the house my father grew
up in and ~ yeah,

310
00:14:48,494 --> 00:14:49,494
Okay, cool.

311
00:14:49,802 --> 00:14:53,795
and you know, his his parents bought it
and I'm still living here myself now,

312
00:14:53,795 --> 00:14:54,906
so it's now I'm

313
00:14:54,468 --> 00:14:55,468
Okay.

314
00:14:54,906 --> 00:14:57,608
raised raising my kids here and it's it's

315
00:14:57,059 --> 00:14:58,059
Nice.

316
00:14:57,988 --> 00:14:58,988
it's beautiful.

317
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,121
I can imagine. Now when he moved to New
York,

318
00:15:01,121 --> 00:15:04,043
were you already old enough to like be out
on your own at that point?

319
00:15:04,043 --> 00:15:08,466
In a way. Yeah.

320
00:15:04,069 --> 00:15:06,753
~ yeah, yeah, I mean, by by default,

321
00:15:06,753 --> 00:15:10,389
you know, so he you he had to go where the
work was and I was just

322
00:15:08,466 --> 00:15:10,307
Yeah.

323
00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:16,198
getting out of high school and so it was
something that ~ just transpired that
yeah,

324
00:15:16,198 --> 00:15:17,198
I was on my own.

325
00:15:17,435 --> 00:15:20,397
Okay, and then so you get into the
construction side of the business

326
00:15:20,397 --> 00:15:24,901
and you see him, ~ I assume you're
visiting you guys are visiting each other

327
00:15:24,901 --> 00:15:27,423
and you're seeing what he's doing in New
York.

328
00:15:27,423 --> 00:15:32,928
And how different was it for you at that
age to kind of see him and what he's doing

329
00:15:32,928 --> 00:15:35,400
in New York and all the different things
he's doing there compared to what

330
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:36,400
he was doing in Boston?

331
00:15:36,899 --> 00:15:40,071
So it's it's similar to the cities,

332
00:15:40,071 --> 00:15:43,514
right? So he used to say that Boston was a
cute little city.

333
00:15:43,514 --> 00:15:44,774
And in

334
00:15:44,112 --> 00:15:45,112
Ha ha ha.

335
00:15:44,995 --> 00:15:47,496
in New York is New York. I mean,

336
00:15:46,990 --> 00:15:47,990
Yeah.

337
00:15:47,496 --> 00:15:50,128
it's it's a big city, big dreams,

338
00:15:49,732 --> 00:15:50,914
Right. Right.

339
00:15:50,128 --> 00:15:51,359
right? So

340
00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:54,681
~ it's it was a whole different animal,

341
00:15:54,681 --> 00:15:56,543
no pun intended, with ~

342
00:15:56,197 --> 00:15:57,197
Right.

343
00:15:56,783 --> 00:16:00,805
the fact of much bigger scale,

344
00:16:00,805 --> 00:16:03,948
much bigger opportunities. ~ you know,

345
00:16:03,948 --> 00:16:05,709
one of the opportunities was to

346
00:16:05,859 --> 00:16:11,833
go and ~ go to Alaska and and get a get an
exhibit

347
00:16:11,833 --> 00:16:14,475
for the aquarium which was a walrus.

348
00:16:14,475 --> 00:16:17,547
You know, so he he went on an ex
expedition to,

349
00:16:17,547 --> 00:16:19,619
you know, bring back a walrus.

350
00:16:19,619 --> 00:16:25,643
And you know, this was something that the
the the aquarium made s

351
00:16:25,763 --> 00:16:29,346
all sorts of ~ arrangements and

352
00:16:28,783 --> 00:16:29,783
Yeah.

353
00:16:29,566 --> 00:16:33,809
and you know brought the animal back and
had it in display and there's a whole

354
00:16:34,116 --> 00:16:36,487
you know, stories behind, you know,

355
00:16:36,251 --> 00:16:37,251
Course.

356
00:16:36,888 --> 00:16:41,062
I d I don't know the name of the of the ~
of the walrus,

357
00:16:41,062 --> 00:16:42,062
but there was,

358
00:16:41,339 --> 00:16:42,339
Mm-hmm.

359
00:16:42,173 --> 00:16:48,478
you know, we they had a baby walrus at New
York and that was a big famous story that

360
00:16:48,518 --> 00:16:54,553
~ you know, my dad was affiliated with
where like you just mentioned,

361
00:16:54,553 --> 00:16:57,666
there were there were different people
that wanted to see the walrus and

362
00:16:57,666 --> 00:17:01,469
was big ~ it was big public publicity.

363
00:17:01,807 --> 00:17:02,807
Mm-hmm.

364
00:17:01,919 --> 00:17:02,919
And so

365
00:17:02,449 --> 00:17:05,711
there was a lot of people interested in it
and some some actors and

366
00:17:05,711 --> 00:17:08,072
you know those things that wanted to come
by.

367
00:17:08,072 --> 00:17:09,072
And that

368
00:17:08,425 --> 00:17:09,425
yeah.

369
00:17:08,692 --> 00:17:12,833
was something that my dad was also very
good and personal with

370
00:17:13,134 --> 00:17:18,366
is bringing whether it's teachers or kids
or actors

371
00:17:18,366 --> 00:17:22,888
and sports ~ sports personalities into

372
00:17:22,395 --> 00:17:23,395
Mm-hmm.

373
00:17:22,888 --> 00:17:25,069
the the environment so they're
comfortable.

374
00:17:25,069 --> 00:17:30,449
You know, some ~ there's a story of Bobby
Orr coming into Boston and

375
00:17:30,459 --> 00:17:31,459
Nice.

376
00:17:31,275 --> 00:17:35,628
Everybody, you know, people are very
familiar with Bobby Orr and

377
00:17:35,547 --> 00:17:36,547
It's a legend.

378
00:17:35,628 --> 00:17:36,628
other peop

379
00:17:36,509 --> 00:17:41,762
he's a legend. So ~ he toured Bobby Orr
and and his family behind

380
00:17:41,307 --> 00:17:42,307
That's so cool.

381
00:17:41,762 --> 00:17:43,733
the scenes and and showed them,

382
00:17:43,733 --> 00:17:46,935
you know, what the exhibits were and how
they worked to keep him out

383
00:17:46,935 --> 00:17:49,117
of the public so he wasn't bothered by,

384
00:17:49,117 --> 00:17:53,179
you know, the public. And that's one of
the stories that,

385
00:17:53,179 --> 00:17:55,261
you know, resonated with me.

386
00:17:56,045 --> 00:18:00,067
~ that I ended up reaching back out to
Bobby Or because he wrote my dad a

387
00:18:00,087 --> 00:18:03,269
a a note saying, you know, thank you so
much for the tour,

388
00:18:03,269 --> 00:18:07,170
very educational. You know, if there's
anything I can do for you.

389
00:18:07,170 --> 00:18:11,853
So I reached out to him when my dad was
was was passing to try to lift

390
00:18:11,853 --> 00:18:15,394
his spirits up to have Bobby call him and
talk to him.

391
00:18:15,812 --> 00:18:16,812
nice.

392
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:18,296
it it was a debacle.

393
00:18:19,256 --> 00:18:20,256
Ha ha ha.

394
00:18:21,121 --> 00:18:26,322
I i it was a debacle because I set him up
to think that it was somebody else because

395
00:18:26,322 --> 00:18:27,714
I wanted to surprise him.

396
00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:28,909
Right.

397
00:18:28,677 --> 00:18:30,891
And so he thought it was Roger Payne.

398
00:18:30,891 --> 00:18:32,885
And I don't know if you're familiar with
Roger Payne.

399
00:18:32,998 --> 00:18:36,186
I'm not I I've heard the name before but I
don't know where he's from.

400
00:18:35,448 --> 00:18:36,448
So Roger

401
00:18:36,319 --> 00:18:40,582
Payne, and this is where the stories in in
my association with a lot

402
00:18:40,582 --> 00:18:46,467
of ~ the history, Roger Payne is the the
the man who you know recorded

403
00:18:46,467 --> 00:18:51,852
the song of the humpback. And that album
went into National Geographics and became,

404
00:18:49,467 --> 00:18:51,654
Right. Yes.

405
00:18:52,012 --> 00:18:56,536
you know, super famous. And is it's ~
amazing how,

406
00:18:56,536 --> 00:19:02,681
you know, Roger Payne, I was talking to
him in the last ~ year of my dad's life.

407
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:04,029
And

408
00:19:03,209 --> 00:19:05,121
unfortunately the same thing for Roger.

409
00:19:05,121 --> 00:19:07,072
Roger passed the same same year,

410
00:19:07,387 --> 00:19:08,387
Mm.

411
00:19:07,773 --> 00:19:14,078
and I was talking with him about this film
that ~ came to across my table,

412
00:19:14,078 --> 00:19:16,680
which got me inspired to, you know,

413
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:22,285
storytell and get into film aspect with
Rand Levy's film Ocean Angels.

414
00:19:22,285 --> 00:19:23,285
So Ocean

415
00:19:22,618 --> 00:19:23,618
Mm-hmm.

416
00:19:23,135 --> 00:19:26,298
Angels is my dad is an ocean angel,

417
00:19:26,298 --> 00:19:28,450
Roger Payne, and then this woman,

418
00:19:28,450 --> 00:19:32,173
Fiona Middleton, that plays the violins to
~ to seals.

419
00:19:32,363 --> 00:19:33,363
And so that's

420
00:19:32,443 --> 00:19:33,443
Mm.

421
00:19:33,014 --> 00:19:39,520
a very interesting aspect of communication
between ~ animals and humans

422
00:19:39,661 --> 00:19:40,661
is the way I

423
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:40,920
Yeah.

424
00:19:40,221 --> 00:19:43,755
I put it out there. Yeah.

425
00:19:42,245 --> 00:19:43,975
That's amazing. That's awesome.

426
00:19:44,156 --> 00:19:45,536
But I mean, like to have that,

427
00:19:45,536 --> 00:19:49,977
you know, that impact on somebody like a a
person like like Bob Yore,

428
00:19:49,977 --> 00:19:53,628
to for him to say, Hey, yeah, I'd I'd love
to reach out to him and talk

429
00:19:53,628 --> 00:19:58,860
to him and stuff, like that shows the the
level of of ~ you know,

430
00:19:58,860 --> 00:20:02,120
personability that he had with people to
to have them remember.

431
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:03,901
I mean, Bob Yore probably met a lot of
people,

432
00:20:03,901 --> 00:20:05,021
you know, throughout his life.

433
00:20:05,021 --> 00:20:06,508
And here he is, like, you know,

434
00:20:06,508 --> 00:20:08,832
talking to him however many years later,

435
00:20:08,832 --> 00:20:11,683
being like, Hey, yeah, like to to lift his
spirits and you know.

436
00:20:12,330 --> 00:20:13,741
however it went, it doesn't matter.

437
00:20:13,741 --> 00:20:14,952
The fact that like it

438
00:20:14,273 --> 00:20:15,273
Exactly.

439
00:20:14,952 --> 00:20:19,226
just goes to show, you know, that is is
amazing to have that that

440
00:20:19,526 --> 00:20:22,249
you know that impact on somebody,

441
00:20:22,249 --> 00:20:24,701
you know, just from a tour in an aquarium.

442
00:20:24,701 --> 00:20:26,342
People just think, well, it's just a
regular tour,

443
00:20:26,342 --> 00:20:30,015
but he no, he remembers that. And I think
that that brings about,

444
00:20:30,015 --> 00:20:32,317
you know, kind of like that legendary
aspect,

445
00:20:32,317 --> 00:20:35,810
that legacy aspect of people remembering
you the way you the way you were.

446
00:20:35,810 --> 00:20:39,177
~ and and that's it's it's really
interesting to to see that.

447
00:20:38,189 --> 00:20:39,189
A thousand percent.

448
00:20:39,178 --> 00:20:41,909
That's what I ~ loved watching.

449
00:20:41,909 --> 00:20:46,832
I I loved watching that happen in front of
my eyes.

450
00:20:46,832 --> 00:20:50,544
And you know, that's something that you
realize as a son that,

451
00:20:50,544 --> 00:20:53,456
you know, your father being an ocean
angel,

452
00:20:53,456 --> 00:20:57,428
but not so much that hype, but just the
humbleness of,

453
00:20:57,428 --> 00:21:01,160
you know, somebody like Bobby Orr or you
know,

454
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,732
these these different people like I think
there was another one,

455
00:21:04,732 --> 00:21:08,214
Javi Kaitel, you know. So he interacted
with Hav Javi

456
00:21:06,305 --> 00:21:08,046
Mmm. Wow.

457
00:21:08,214 --> 00:21:09,214
Kaitel.

458
00:21:09,116 --> 00:21:10,116
at one point.

459
00:21:09,236 --> 00:21:10,236
Yeah.

460
00:21:10,016 --> 00:21:13,968
And, you know, it wasn't about the
pictures and getting like,

461
00:21:13,968 --> 00:21:15,599
hey, I'm with this guy. It was

462
00:21:15,266 --> 00:21:16,266
No.

463
00:21:15,939 --> 00:21:17,660
it was all business, you know,

464
00:21:17,660 --> 00:21:20,821
respectful and and that goes a long way.

465
00:21:20,821 --> 00:21:21,821
And

466
00:21:21,155 --> 00:21:22,155
Yeah.

467
00:21:21,501 --> 00:21:27,394
what I also noticed ~ watching my dad work
was he would

468
00:21:27,394 --> 00:21:30,515
do that with anybody, you know,

469
00:21:30,515 --> 00:21:35,667
kids on a boat. You know, if there was any
slight interest in the ocean,

470
00:21:35,667 --> 00:21:37,188
he would be right there to say,

471
00:21:37,620 --> 00:21:39,721
Yeah, this is that, and that's a humpback,

472
00:21:39,721 --> 00:21:41,702
and this is he he was a teacher.

473
00:21:41,702 --> 00:21:42,702
And

474
00:21:42,048 --> 00:21:43,048
Yeah.

475
00:21:43,282 --> 00:21:47,914
you know, we we interacted with this this
~ this woman from Geneva,

476
00:21:47,914 --> 00:21:51,126
Switzerland, who had never seen a whale
before.

477
00:21:51,126 --> 00:21:52,126
And

478
00:21:51,427 --> 00:21:52,427
Mm.

479
00:21:51,946 --> 00:21:56,078
this really, you know, hits home on the
fact that I watched this right

480
00:21:56,078 --> 00:22:02,530
in front of my eyes. Me and my dad and her
talked that she came from Switzerland

481
00:22:02,590 --> 00:22:05,592
wanting to see a whale in New York because
she heard about it.

482
00:22:05,592 --> 00:22:06,592
And she's like,

483
00:22:05,943 --> 00:22:06,943
Yeah.

484
00:22:06,484 --> 00:22:08,305
This is what I want to do for my birthday,

485
00:22:08,305 --> 00:22:12,356
is I want to see a whale. And she ended up
seeing a whale,

486
00:22:12,356 --> 00:22:15,010
a humpback. And she was an artist.

487
00:22:15,010 --> 00:22:18,872
She drew a little skit sketch for me and
sent it to me in the email.

488
00:22:18,872 --> 00:22:25,497
We became friends. And now she's studying
~ sperm whales in in Greece.

489
00:22:25,497 --> 00:22:27,718
You know, from that, from that

490
00:22:26,069 --> 00:22:27,478
Unreal. Yeah.

491
00:22:27,718 --> 00:22:32,431
experience to, you know, trajectory to ~
wanting to

492
00:22:32,431 --> 00:22:36,074
do this as something that's in her soul.

493
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:36,480
Yeah.

494
00:22:36,331 --> 00:22:40,041
just really ~ was something amazing to
watch.

495
00:22:40,557 --> 00:22:44,220
Can imagine. And and let's get into that
because I think that comes more into

496
00:22:44,220 --> 00:22:48,823
the Gotham whale ~ part of your of your
dad Paul's life.

497
00:22:48,823 --> 00:22:51,495
And after he retires, you know,

498
00:22:51,495 --> 00:22:55,192
after 40 years of of an amazing career,

499
00:22:55,192 --> 00:22:57,419
you know, meeting people, giving tours,

500
00:22:57,419 --> 00:23:02,593
building exhibits, kind of growing up in a
really pivotal time for public aquariums.

501
00:23:03,677 --> 00:23:05,729
And and here he is, he's about to retire.

502
00:23:05,729 --> 00:23:08,561
Did you think he was just gonna retire and
just kind of relax for the rest

503
00:23:08,561 --> 00:23:13,074
of the time, maybe tour, get some back
back ~ back room tours of back behind

504
00:23:13,074 --> 00:23:16,306
the scene tours of aquariums? Or did you
had a feeling that he was going

505
00:23:16,306 --> 00:23:18,998
to develop something like like Gotham
Whale?

506
00:23:18,998 --> 00:23:20,039
How do you been talking about it?

507
00:23:20,732 --> 00:23:26,994
He he did not talk about it and from my
memory of how it transpired was,

508
00:23:26,994 --> 00:23:30,135
you know, he was at the retirement age.

509
00:23:30,135 --> 00:23:36,296
He always had the knowledge of what he had
built throughout his years

510
00:23:36,636 --> 00:23:38,017
and he didn't want to let it go.

511
00:23:38,017 --> 00:23:39,097
And so

512
00:23:38,551 --> 00:23:39,551
Mm-hmm.

513
00:23:39,337 --> 00:23:44,078
~ you know, he would do the what he
started

514
00:23:44,078 --> 00:23:49,510
out doing was observing the seals in the
area and the seal population.

515
00:23:50,056 --> 00:23:52,097
So it it all comes back to seals,

516
00:23:52,097 --> 00:23:53,097
which

517
00:23:52,418 --> 00:23:53,418
Yeah.

518
00:23:52,947 --> 00:23:54,598
is interesting enough, you know.

519
00:23:54,598 --> 00:23:57,299
~ and in the last year of his life,

520
00:23:57,299 --> 00:24:02,021
we brought the story of the seal we had in
our bathtub here in Malden Mass

521
00:24:02,721 --> 00:24:04,522
to a children's book, you know,

522
00:24:04,522 --> 00:24:10,664
to ~ tell that story with a voice because
Cecil and Hoover,

523
00:24:10,664 --> 00:24:15,776
Hoover was a talking seal, so it it does
give these animals a little bit

524
00:24:15,776 --> 00:24:18,808
of a voice to say that, you know,

525
00:24:18,808 --> 00:24:19,808
~

526
00:24:20,201 --> 00:24:24,654
generations can still talk. So there's a
there's a seal in the aquarium

527
00:24:24,654 --> 00:24:31,478
now in Boston, Chakota, which is a
grandson of Cecil and Hoover that
vocalizes

528
00:24:31,478 --> 00:24:35,981
and says, How are you? So this is y you
can't write this,

529
00:24:35,981 --> 00:24:37,852
but I lived it, you know.

530
00:24:36,375 --> 00:24:37,834
No. Yeah.

531
00:24:38,713 --> 00:24:41,485
But so like I said, it all started with
SEALs.

532
00:24:41,485 --> 00:24:43,166
So he was from

533
00:24:43,678 --> 00:24:48,882
What he told me is he was ~ observing the
seal population in the area

534
00:24:48,882 --> 00:24:50,994
and he wanted to start to track the seals.

535
00:24:50,994 --> 00:24:56,489
So he aligned himself with the American
princess and went out on some seal
watching

536
00:24:56,489 --> 00:25:01,002
tours, almost like the ~ the Audubon bird
count.

537
00:25:01,002 --> 00:25:05,656
So he would go out there and document the
seals with different ~ people

538
00:25:05,656 --> 00:25:08,989
on the boat to have them give information,

539
00:25:08,989 --> 00:25:12,552
and then he also asked people in the
community to come.

540
00:25:12,786 --> 00:25:15,037
And say, what have you seen out there?

541
00:25:15,037 --> 00:25:16,037
And

542
00:25:15,254 --> 00:25:16,254
Yeah.

543
00:25:15,718 --> 00:25:17,759
send it to me so I can document it.

544
00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:21,521
And with his background, he could say that
this is scientific.

545
00:25:21,955 --> 00:25:22,955
Mm-hmm.

546
00:25:22,321 --> 00:25:26,924
You know? So lo and behold, whales started
showing up.

547
00:25:26,924 --> 00:25:31,446
And with this knowledge of being in New
England and knowing how

548
00:25:32,307 --> 00:25:38,110
the whale watching and how whale
observation up here in New England worked,

549
00:25:38,110 --> 00:25:41,202
he said this is something we should pay
attention to.

550
00:25:41,530 --> 00:25:45,129
And so he started doing documentation,

551
00:25:45,129 --> 00:25:49,540
which started the New York City ~ humpback
whale catalog.

552
00:25:50,581 --> 00:25:54,724
is amazing. Even this is the fact that you
know humpbacks came back to

553
00:25:54,724 --> 00:25:58,176
New York was huge at that time because
they hadn't come,

554
00:25:58,176 --> 00:26:00,087
you know, in a long, long time.

555
00:26:00,087 --> 00:26:04,980
Like we're talking decades. when he
started to see these humpbacks there,

556
00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:09,643
what was like his like was he surprised?

557
00:26:09,643 --> 00:26:11,164
Was he like once they came back,

558
00:26:11,164 --> 00:26:13,086
he's like, okay, we got to look after
these whales.

559
00:26:13,086 --> 00:26:15,157
Like, you know, it was that was that

560
00:26:15,533 --> 00:26:19,142
kind of a defining feature or was it the
seals that led him to and then

561
00:26:19,142 --> 00:26:21,579
the whales were there and then he started
to look after the whales?

562
00:26:22,794 --> 00:26:27,587
From you know, I from my recollection and
from from my standpoint

563
00:26:27,687 --> 00:26:31,830
is he was excited about the whales showing
up,

564
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:32,971
you know, and

565
00:26:32,343 --> 00:26:33,343
Right.

566
00:26:33,031 --> 00:26:39,044
and then realizing that we have to observe
this and document it.

567
00:26:39,044 --> 00:26:40,044
And so when

568
00:26:39,458 --> 00:26:40,458
Yeah.

569
00:26:39,815 --> 00:26:42,907
he started documenting it, ~ you know,

570
00:26:42,907 --> 00:26:48,911
there was I think it was three whales in
two thousand nine and now we're

571
00:26:48,911 --> 00:26:51,593
up to five hundred individual whales.

572
00:26:51,847 --> 00:26:56,900
in the New York bite that we've observed
with citizen science and then also,

573
00:26:56,900 --> 00:27:01,933
you know, our affiliates, boat affiliates
that we work with in the New York area,

574
00:27:01,933 --> 00:27:04,994
New York, New Jersey. And Long Island.

575
00:27:03,725 --> 00:27:04,725
That's amazing.

576
00:27:05,135 --> 00:27:06,135
And Long Island.

577
00:27:06,058 --> 00:27:07,860
And this was all before Gotham Whale.

578
00:27:07,860 --> 00:27:09,722
Like this is all before he started the
organization.

579
00:27:09,722 --> 00:27:12,545
This is just on his own. This is what he
was doing in his retirement.

580
00:27:12,545 --> 00:27:14,858
Okay, so this is

581
00:27:13,001 --> 00:27:14,713
Correct. Correct.

582
00:27:14,858 --> 00:27:18,812
it started to kind of get his his his
thoughts kind of going.

583
00:27:18,812 --> 00:27:21,816
When did Gotham Whale come up?

584
00:27:21,816 --> 00:27:23,918
When did that start, that idea

585
00:27:23,859 --> 00:27:24,859
Bil believe

586
00:27:23,918 --> 00:27:24,918
start to come?

587
00:27:24,673 --> 00:27:27,695
it was two thousand eleven. Two thousand
eleven.

588
00:27:26,763 --> 00:27:28,497
Okay. And what like

589
00:27:27,695 --> 00:27:28,695
And

590
00:27:28,497 --> 00:27:29,790
what when he told you about it,

591
00:27:29,790 --> 00:27:32,355
like what was his like almost like pitch
to you?

592
00:27:32,355 --> 00:27:33,919
Like how was he describing it to you?

593
00:27:34,641 --> 00:27:38,703
It was not a pitch. It was like this is
happening and I'm part of it.

594
00:27:38,703 --> 00:27:43,217
And so ~ I attributed to like I said
earlier,

595
00:27:43,217 --> 00:27:48,050
it's it was his golf thing. It's like
that's what he liked to do on the
weekends,

596
00:27:46,285 --> 00:27:48,694
Yeah, it's right.

597
00:27:48,050 --> 00:27:49,050
and that's what he

598
00:27:48,701 --> 00:27:51,933
liked to that's what he liked to do with
his time is to be out on

599
00:27:51,933 --> 00:27:57,247
the water talking about what is what was
happening.

600
00:27:57,247 --> 00:28:03,261
And what was happening to from his words
is the waters were getting cleaner.

601
00:28:03,795 --> 00:28:05,677
Because of, you know, the Clean Water Act,

602
00:28:05,677 --> 00:28:07,368
the Marine Mammal Protection Act.

603
00:28:07,368 --> 00:28:10,021
Now we have a lot of nutrients in the
water.

604
00:28:10,021 --> 00:28:15,256
We have a lot of ~ you know, fish activity
and and all sorts

605
00:28:15,256 --> 00:28:17,088
of nutrients coming into the water,

606
00:28:16,895 --> 00:28:19,220
Mm-hmm. Right.

607
00:28:17,088 --> 00:28:19,310
and it's not as polluted anymore because
we're

608
00:28:19,310 --> 00:28:24,094
we're observing the fact that what we are
doing to our waters is

609
00:28:24,094 --> 00:28:25,686
not the right thing. And so when we

610
00:28:25,346 --> 00:28:26,346
Yeah.

611
00:28:25,686 --> 00:28:27,378
start to pay attention to that,

612
00:28:27,378 --> 00:28:28,729
good things come out of it.

613
00:28:31,242 --> 00:28:33,564
Indeed. And you the Menhayden came back,

614
00:28:33,564 --> 00:28:40,418
the the whales came back. And so tell us
what Gotham Whale

615
00:28:40,558 --> 00:28:44,381
is, because I think there's a lot of
misconceptions of what it is.

616
00:28:44,381 --> 00:28:48,233
It's not a a whale watching company or
organization.

617
00:28:48,233 --> 00:28:51,295
This is about what your dad was already
doing.

618
00:28:51,295 --> 00:28:54,347
It was, you know, measuring, monitoring,

619
00:28:54,347 --> 00:28:57,850
looking after the local, not only just
whales,

620
00:28:57,850 --> 00:28:59,501
it was marine mammals altogether,

621
00:28:59,501 --> 00:29:00,501
right?

622
00:29:00,659 --> 00:29:05,763
Yeah, what Gotham Whale is, is it's it an
organization that brings

623
00:29:05,763 --> 00:29:09,307
in the community but also goes off of the
science.

624
00:29:09,307 --> 00:29:11,448
And so we have our head researcher,

625
00:29:11,448 --> 00:29:17,294
Dr. ~ Danielle Brown, who's been observing
these whales with my father as well.

626
00:29:17,294 --> 00:29:20,396
And she's writing papers on her findings.

627
00:29:20,396 --> 00:29:22,658
And so what she does is, you know,

628
00:29:22,658 --> 00:29:27,943
puts the science behind all the ~
documentation that

629
00:29:28,207 --> 00:29:33,588
our boat affiliates and our citizen
science bring to the table.

630
00:29:33,588 --> 00:29:38,010
And so what we do is we compile all that
information and have it

631
00:29:38,190 --> 00:29:44,871
be actual ~ data that we can have
scientific papers written about.

632
00:29:44,871 --> 00:29:46,842
And then also

633
00:29:45,635 --> 00:29:46,635
That's incredible.

634
00:29:46,842 --> 00:29:51,083
we're bringing education to the table
where we want to bring

635
00:29:51,083 --> 00:29:57,775
~ our knowledge of how we build a
community in the classroom.

636
00:29:57,885 --> 00:30:00,426
And so we're bringing a lot of this
knowledge into the classroom

637
00:30:00,426 --> 00:30:02,555
now with different programs we're
developing.

638
00:30:03,044 --> 00:30:04,044
So you're bringing it to shore,

639
00:30:03,935 --> 00:30:05,806
not just it's not just out on the ocean,

640
00:30:05,806 --> 00:30:10,169
you're bringing it to shore. When when he
started Gotham Whale,

641
00:30:10,169 --> 00:30:12,680
and I don't know if you have all the
information,

642
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:13,761
because as I as you mentioned,

643
00:30:13,761 --> 00:30:16,873
you're watching this from outside in and
watching what your dad's doing,

644
00:30:16,873 --> 00:30:19,514
and obviously you're talking to him on a
fairly regular basis,

645
00:30:19,514 --> 00:30:21,486
~ but like

646
00:30:22,912 --> 00:30:25,775
Is this something where it's an
organization where it was he called

647
00:30:25,775 --> 00:30:27,617
it an organization, called it Gotham
Whale,

648
00:30:27,617 --> 00:30:29,008
had all these people work with him,

649
00:30:29,008 --> 00:30:32,542
but he had to pay some of these
researchers and he had to like do all this
stuff.

650
00:30:32,542 --> 00:30:34,534
Like how did it start? Did he get funding
for this?

651
00:30:34,534 --> 00:30:36,406
Like how did all that

652
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,000
There were

653
00:30:36,587 --> 00:30:37,587
begin?

654
00:30:37,580 --> 00:30:40,211
th it b it began with all volunteers,

655
00:30:40,211 --> 00:30:43,062
which were all volunteers in this
organization.

656
00:30:43,062 --> 00:30:49,003
~ and then that does come with the the
fact of volunteers ~

657
00:30:49,103 --> 00:30:51,864
are doing their thing out of their
goodness of their heart.

658
00:30:51,864 --> 00:30:54,704
And, you know, ~ I can attest to the fact
of,

659
00:30:54,704 --> 00:30:59,636
you know, driving back and forth from
Boston and and doing different table
events

660
00:30:59,636 --> 00:31:00,906
and different type of

661
00:31:00,376 --> 00:31:01,376
Yeah.

662
00:31:01,026 --> 00:31:04,917
~ you know, beneath the sea and all sorts
of things down in New York.

663
00:31:04,917 --> 00:31:05,917
And then that's

664
00:31:05,587 --> 00:31:07,588
That's the love and the passion that comes
out.

665
00:31:07,588 --> 00:31:12,920
And that goes so far. And an organization
we have to,

666
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:19,092
you know, depend on keeping the lights on
and getting ~ getting membership

667
00:31:19,112 --> 00:31:24,495
and people involved with ~ helping the
organization grow.

668
00:31:24,495 --> 00:31:25,605
And that's where we're at.

669
00:31:26,477 --> 00:31:31,490
So it's memberships. ~ you probably get ~
some do you get like some affiliations

670
00:31:31,490 --> 00:31:35,573
with some of your partners that that do
the whale watching and and things like
that?

671
00:31:35,573 --> 00:31:39,616
And that's so that's all like donation
based coming in through the organization.

672
00:31:39,616 --> 00:31:41,687
Phenomenal. What and that's kind

673
00:31:40,263 --> 00:31:41,562
Yep. Yep.

674
00:31:41,687 --> 00:31:45,360
of a different way than a lot of
organizations work because usually they

675
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:46,481
get grants and things like that.

676
00:31:46,481 --> 00:31:48,832
This is off the people that are working
that that want to

677
00:31:48,832 --> 00:31:50,884
see this organization succeed.

678
00:31:50,884 --> 00:31:55,447
They want to see more data, they want to
see more scientific publications.

679
00:31:55,797 --> 00:31:58,520
And and your dad was all a a part of this.

680
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,832
He was like managing all of this,

681
00:32:00,832 --> 00:32:02,863
right? With with the he had a small team,

682
00:32:02,863 --> 00:32:04,385
but he had like it was mostly him.

683
00:32:03,433 --> 00:32:04,514
He had a small team

684
00:32:04,514 --> 00:32:06,927
with a lot of ~ people that knew,

685
00:32:06,927 --> 00:32:10,491
you know, different facets of how that
those mechanics

686
00:32:10,125 --> 00:32:11,125
Yeah.

687
00:32:10,491 --> 00:32:14,044
worked. And, you know, but he was at the
helm doing a lot of

688
00:32:14,044 --> 00:32:20,151
the organizational ~ decisions and also
how to delegate

689
00:32:20,151 --> 00:32:21,993
to the right people to do the right
things.

690
00:32:22,862 --> 00:32:27,633
That is phenomenal. What like when you
outside looking in,

691
00:32:27,633 --> 00:32:30,227
you know, he's got the the marine bio like
the he's got like

692
00:32:30,227 --> 00:32:33,089
the marine biology background from the his
own accessibility.

693
00:32:33,089 --> 00:32:38,182
Like he's learnt that over 40 plus years
being around a brown animals,

694
00:32:38,182 --> 00:32:43,416
learning, soaking it all up. You are
watching this develop as a child,

695
00:32:43,416 --> 00:32:45,517
as ~ you know, early adulthood.

696
00:32:45,517 --> 00:32:47,469
You you you you get your family of your
own,

697
00:32:47,469 --> 00:32:48,739
you're you know, he's got grandkids,

698
00:32:48,739 --> 00:32:51,021
they're all watching this happen.

699
00:32:51,383 --> 00:32:55,616
And you see Gotham Whale kind of get a a
lot of notoriety in the business.

700
00:32:55,616 --> 00:32:59,559
Like it's it's a very well-respected
organization to this day.

701
00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:03,631
Like what are your thoughts as a son on
this,

702
00:33:03,631 --> 00:33:06,914
like this entire sort of journey that he
was on?

703
00:33:06,914 --> 00:33:11,587
Like this is pretty incredible to build
something that still continues

704
00:33:11,587 --> 00:33:14,719
to impact people every single day.

705
00:33:16,784 --> 00:33:22,156
It's ~ obviously it warms my heart to see
what he has built,

706
00:33:22,156 --> 00:33:25,157
but it also carries a lot of weight on how
to,

707
00:33:25,157 --> 00:33:30,350
you know, develop it into the the whole
dream that he had,

708
00:33:30,350 --> 00:33:35,842
you know, and what what the dream he had ~
I don't want to say died with him,

709
00:33:35,842 --> 00:33:36,842
but it's also

710
00:33:36,291 --> 00:33:37,291
Mm-hmm.

711
00:33:36,772 --> 00:33:43,265
now up to the team and a lot of the
community to to build it in

712
00:33:43,265 --> 00:33:46,246
a in a in a aspect of where

713
00:33:46,396 --> 00:33:51,149
we could go and how we wanna build it into
something that is

714
00:33:51,546 --> 00:33:57,552
an everyday ~ knowledgeable organization
like

715
00:33:57,552 --> 00:34:00,004
~ like many others that are out there.

716
00:34:00,823 --> 00:34:03,595
Yeah, I can I can imagine. Now let me ask
you this,

717
00:34:03,595 --> 00:34:06,097
because I mean, he seems like a like your
dad,

718
00:34:06,097 --> 00:34:08,518
from what you've told me, seems like a
very personal guy,

719
00:34:08,518 --> 00:34:11,490
like a personable guy. ~ the team,

720
00:34:11,490 --> 00:34:15,953
you know, ~ we we unfortunately we lost we
lost Paul in in 2023.

721
00:34:15,953 --> 00:34:19,566
~ the team that that was with him,

722
00:34:19,566 --> 00:34:22,768
like they were with him for quite some
time at Gotham Well,

723
00:34:22,768 --> 00:34:25,300
I'm sure there were some people that that
that came and and and went,

724
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:26,921
but there were the team that's with them,

725
00:34:26,921 --> 00:34:29,803
they they must feel the the passion.

726
00:34:29,934 --> 00:34:32,866
That he had for that. I mean, obviously,

727
00:34:32,866 --> 00:34:34,365
this is a hard thing to get over.

728
00:34:34,365 --> 00:34:38,109
He was the visionary, he was the person
who had the drive and the motivation,

729
00:34:38,109 --> 00:34:39,760
never stopped even in retirement,

730
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,291
which is which is pretty cool.

731
00:34:41,291 --> 00:34:42,601
And if I'm looking at his age,

732
00:34:42,601 --> 00:34:45,343
he was in his 80s as continuing on with
this,

733
00:34:45,343 --> 00:34:48,235
with this kind of thing. They're built
different back then.

734
00:34:48,235 --> 00:34:50,406
My dad was the same way. He retired very
late.

735
00:34:50,406 --> 00:34:53,227
what like the their thought process?

736
00:34:53,227 --> 00:34:55,899
Do they feel a bit of motivation to?

737
00:34:57,015 --> 00:35:01,741
continue his legacy in whatever way
everyone decides to go.

738
00:35:01,741 --> 00:35:06,197
But is that motivation there because of
the impact that he had on on

739
00:35:06,197 --> 00:35:09,141
the team as well, do you think from your
from what you gather?

740
00:35:08,028 --> 00:35:09,248
I would I would like to think

741
00:35:09,248 --> 00:35:14,160
so. I mean the the he had that humbleness
that we talked about and you know

742
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,712
he had that ~ that thing about him that
people wanted to you know follow

743
00:35:19,712 --> 00:35:23,933
his lead and you know unfortunately that
that he's gone ~

744
00:35:23,587 --> 00:35:24,587
Mm-hmm.

745
00:35:23,933 --> 00:35:28,624
that doesn't die. I mean you still have
that ~ that's one of the

746
00:35:28,684 --> 00:35:33,366
the healing ~ properties that I'm going
through with being involved in this is

747
00:35:33,143 --> 00:35:34,143
Mm-hmm.

748
00:35:33,826 --> 00:35:34,826
it's

749
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:37,861
It's something that's helping me be around
that environment and feeding

750
00:35:37,861 --> 00:35:41,312
off the fact of people love what my father
did.

751
00:35:41,312 --> 00:35:47,073
And so being around that environment is is
giving me a leg up on,

752
00:35:47,073 --> 00:35:49,762
you know, my healing too. So and then
also,

753
00:35:49,762 --> 00:35:51,455
you know, being around the water.

754
00:35:51,455 --> 00:35:56,096
I mean, the w water has its healing
properties and you know,

755
00:35:55,459 --> 00:35:56,459
Absolutely.

756
00:35:56,096 --> 00:36:01,697
just being out in nature is a whole nother
facet that I'm learning about myself that

757
00:36:01,697 --> 00:36:03,318
is something that is

758
00:36:04,286 --> 00:36:06,168
I don't want to say untapped because,

759
00:36:06,168 --> 00:36:08,730
you know, I think everybody can feel the,

760
00:36:08,730 --> 00:36:11,442
you know, the ocean spray and feel better.

761
00:36:11,442 --> 00:36:14,144
But ~ you know, it's not it's not new to
anybody,

762
00:36:14,144 --> 00:36:16,226
but I'm I'm encouraging, you know,

763
00:36:16,226 --> 00:36:20,219
people to do the same thing. It's just get
out on the water and observe

764
00:36:19,351 --> 00:36:20,351
Mm-hmm.

765
00:36:20,219 --> 00:36:23,144
what's around you and ~ good things will
come out of it.

766
00:36:23,650 --> 00:36:25,381
And and you know what's what's interesting
too,

767
00:36:25,381 --> 00:36:29,403
the history that your family has in Boston
and now New York City.

768
00:36:29,403 --> 00:36:32,034
Very big cities. You know, Boston,

769
00:36:32,034 --> 00:36:36,587
you could almost say has a little bit more
of that maritime connection,

770
00:36:36,587 --> 00:36:37,857
you know, because of the, you know,

771
00:36:37,857 --> 00:36:39,568
the history of the f and the fishers and
stuff.

772
00:36:39,568 --> 00:36:44,271
New York has that connection, but I feel
like a lot of New Yorkers don't really

773
00:36:44,271 --> 00:36:47,793
think of, you know, in the harbor outside
of the harbor as

774
00:36:47,793 --> 00:36:52,265
an environmental paradise to see whales
and even to the people who live there.

775
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:57,030
I think it's it's it's really interesting
to be in a in a in a such a

776
00:36:57,030 --> 00:37:00,301
big city like New York City, one of the
biggest cities in the world,

777
00:37:00,301 --> 00:37:04,852
and to be able to go into schools and to
be able to like kind of pull that

778
00:37:04,852 --> 00:37:05,963
out of people and be like, hey,

779
00:37:05,963 --> 00:37:09,264
by the way, yes, you're in a a very
dynamic city.

780
00:37:09,264 --> 00:37:12,665
It's it's it's huge, it's it's full of
concrete,

781
00:37:12,665 --> 00:37:16,025
and you know, it's there's there's some
green spaces around,

782
00:37:16,025 --> 00:37:17,556
but there's not a lot of blue spaces,

783
00:37:17,556 --> 00:37:19,747
although there are a lot of blue spaces.

784
00:37:19,747 --> 00:37:21,347
And if you start to look and how

785
00:37:21,901 --> 00:37:26,302
Well, New York City has done as a city
over the ~ last number of decades,

786
00:37:26,302 --> 00:37:28,193
like like even the last hundred years,

787
00:37:28,193 --> 00:37:32,264
to clean up the water and get it to a
point where the whales are back,

788
00:37:32,264 --> 00:37:33,725
the Medhaden back, the whales are back,

789
00:37:33,725 --> 00:37:36,335
the seabirds are back, I'm sure the sea
turtles are back too.

790
00:37:36,335 --> 00:37:41,997
This is an incredible ~ area to be in in
such a large city.

791
00:37:41,997 --> 00:37:46,469
It's it's it's like this story within a
story of this big city.

792
00:37:46,469 --> 00:37:47,469
And I think.

793
00:37:47,659 --> 00:37:49,570
Your dad had the right idea, you know,

794
00:37:49,570 --> 00:37:54,081
obviously. And it's it's it's it it's not
only caught on while he was alive,

795
00:37:54,081 --> 00:37:57,602
it's gonna continue to grow. ~ and and and
PJ,

796
00:37:57,602 --> 00:38:01,463
I would like, you know, I'd I would love
to continue this story,

797
00:38:01,463 --> 00:38:05,374
you know, in a in a year, maybe even in a
year or two ~ you know,

798
00:38:05,374 --> 00:38:09,025
from now, have you back on and really look
at the direction that

799
00:38:09,025 --> 00:38:11,826
the organization has chosen to to go in,

800
00:38:11,826 --> 00:38:14,947
you know, as you go through this this
healing process,

801
00:38:14,947 --> 00:38:16,307
which I can't even imagine.

802
00:38:16,587 --> 00:38:20,270
all the emotions that that you must feel
and your family must feel around this.

803
00:38:20,270 --> 00:38:26,476
But this is a true legacy as a marine
biologist ~ that looks in from the
outside.

804
00:38:26,476 --> 00:38:29,879
It is something of a a wonder,

805
00:38:29,879 --> 00:38:34,123
you know, to see someone build such a a
really interesting organization

806
00:38:34,463 --> 00:38:36,985
in such a large city. I didn't think it
could be done.

807
00:38:36,985 --> 00:38:39,687
I really, I really didn't. I'm sure a lot
of us didn't.

808
00:38:39,687 --> 00:38:41,889
And your dad proved everybody wrong,

809
00:38:41,889 --> 00:38:43,411
which I'm very happy to say.

810
00:38:44,007 --> 00:38:48,619
and I've been watching Gotham Whale for a
long time and it's just so cool

811
00:38:48,619 --> 00:38:53,771
to hear the story and to hear the passion
your dad had and where it's where it's

812
00:38:53,771 --> 00:38:55,992
gone and where it's gonna go with with
you,

813
00:38:55,992 --> 00:38:59,053
your family, the family that you have at
Gotham Whale.

814
00:38:59,053 --> 00:39:01,264
I think it's gonna be a a really,

815
00:39:01,264 --> 00:39:03,804
really great story. And I would I would
love to have you back on

816
00:39:03,804 --> 00:39:05,225
to continue that that story.

817
00:39:05,212 --> 00:39:06,212
I

818
00:39:05,302 --> 00:39:10,033
w I would love to be back on and one of my
dad's friends used to have a ~ a saying,

819
00:39:10,033 --> 00:39:12,228
if it can't be done, we won't do it.

820
00:39:12,865 --> 00:39:17,719
Yeah, that's true. I love it.

821
00:39:17,182 --> 00:39:18,970
So yeah. Yeah.

822
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,380
I love it. No, wonderful

823
00:39:19,380 --> 00:39:21,913
PJ to talk to you. Can't wait to talk to
you more.

824
00:39:21,913 --> 00:39:25,365
~ we'll definitely keep in touch over over
the until the next time you come on.

825
00:39:25,365 --> 00:39:27,427
but thank you so much for sharing this
story.

826
00:39:27,427 --> 00:39:31,601
This was this was great. It's it's our
first guest story for the podcast,

827
00:39:31,601 --> 00:39:35,154
and I think it's a great one to really see
what ocean leaders are made of,

828
00:39:35,154 --> 00:39:38,967
you know, in in and during this time and
building some really creative things

829
00:39:38,967 --> 00:39:41,479
and some really cool things. So thank you
so much for sharing that story.

830
00:39:42,078 --> 00:39:46,726
Thank you for having me on and I really
appreciate it and ~ love to be back.

831
00:39:47,300 --> 00:39:48,300
All right, perfect.

832
00:39:48,777 --> 00:39:49,777
Thanks.

833
00:39:49,070 --> 00:39:51,521
There you have it, folks. What a story.

834
00:39:51,521 --> 00:39:53,903
I mean, just absolutely inspirational,

835
00:39:53,903 --> 00:39:57,925
a phenomenal story because you don't get
to see people starting

836
00:39:57,925 --> 00:40:02,408
an organization these days without a PhD
credential or a master's credential

837
00:40:02,408 --> 00:40:05,849
or some kind of undergraduate in marine
science or marine conservation.

838
00:40:05,849 --> 00:40:11,593
You know, Paul was somebody who learned on
his own through 40 years

839
00:40:11,813 --> 00:40:16,625
of just being a sponge and interacting
with other people and learning from them

840
00:40:16,625 --> 00:40:17,625
and going to

841
00:40:17,649 --> 00:40:21,691
You know, places all over the world in
Europe and all going to Alaska

842
00:40:21,691 --> 00:40:25,313
and and being able to understand the
aquarium industry,

843
00:40:25,313 --> 00:40:28,995
but also be inspired by the conservation
of it all.

844
00:40:28,995 --> 00:40:32,417
And during his retirement, the time he's
supposed to rest,

845
00:40:32,417 --> 00:40:34,238
the time he's supposed to play golf,

846
00:40:34,238 --> 00:40:37,889
as PJ says, he his golf was marine
monitoring.

847
00:40:37,889 --> 00:40:39,270
And that's what he loved to do.

848
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:42,622
And that's what he did. And he's inspiring
others to do it as well.

849
00:40:42,622 --> 00:40:44,463
And unfortunately he's left us,

850
00:40:44,463 --> 00:40:46,524
but he his his legacy.

851
00:40:46,918 --> 00:40:49,460
Has continued on and it goes through PJ,

852
00:40:49,460 --> 00:40:53,814
it goes through the staff and the and the
board members at Gotham Whale.

853
00:40:53,814 --> 00:40:59,719
And I'm looking forward to seeing the next
stage of growth for Gotham Whale

854
00:40:59,959 --> 00:41:03,532
in the future. And we're gonna have PJ
back on when he's ready to talk about it.

855
00:41:03,532 --> 00:41:07,126
~ and it's absolutely a phenomenal and
inspirational story.

856
00:41:07,126 --> 00:41:08,657
Gotham Whale, what first of all,

857
00:41:08,657 --> 00:41:10,649
name is amazing, logo's amazing,

858
00:41:10,649 --> 00:41:13,942
and the work that they do is absolutely
amazing.

859
00:41:13,942 --> 00:41:14,942
So

860
00:41:14,576 --> 00:41:16,947
We are going to keep you updated on this
story,

861
00:41:16,947 --> 00:41:20,168
but I would love to hear what you think of
Gotham Whale's story.

862
00:41:20,168 --> 00:41:24,369
What do you hear of Paul's story and PJ
coming on to talk about his father

863
00:41:24,369 --> 00:41:28,340
and the legacy that he had to ensure that
everybody else gets inspired as well.

864
00:41:28,340 --> 00:41:30,960
Love to hear your thoughts. If you're on
Spotify,

865
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,821
let us, you know, hit us up with a
comment.

866
00:41:32,821 --> 00:41:36,682
Or if you want to get hit us up on
LinkedIn through our page at on LinkedIn,

867
00:41:36,682 --> 00:41:39,143
just look up for Pisces Oceans Inc.,

868
00:41:39,143 --> 00:41:41,834
or you can contact me directly on
LinkedIn,

869
00:41:41,834 --> 00:41:42,834
Andrew Lewin.

870
00:41:42,864 --> 00:41:45,445
Thank you so much for joining us on
today's episode.

871
00:41:45,445 --> 00:41:49,627
It was such a treat to be able to have our
first guest talk about somebody

872
00:41:49,627 --> 00:41:52,148
who left such an inspiration for not only
his son,

873
00:41:52,148 --> 00:41:56,480
but the rest of the staff at Gotham Whale
and the people who work along with him,

874
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,490
the volunteers and the citizen scientists.

875
00:41:58,490 --> 00:42:01,412
it's just absolutely wonderful to be a
part of that story.

876
00:42:01,412 --> 00:42:05,704
~ and this is why I love podcasting so
much and being able to have other people
tell

877
00:42:05,704 --> 00:42:08,905
their stories and their father's stories
and and those legacies.

878
00:42:09,127 --> 00:42:12,369
It's just wonderful. So thank you so much
for joining us on today's episode

879
00:42:12,409 --> 00:42:15,371
of Ocean Leaders Podcast. We appreciate
you.

880
00:42:15,371 --> 00:42:18,553
Don't forget to follow. ~ but thank you so
much for joining us.

881
00:42:18,553 --> 00:42:20,154
I'm your host, Angelo, and have a great
day.

882
00:42:20,154 --> 00:42:22,095
We'll talk to you next time in happy
conservation.