She Didn’t Plan to Study Sharks, Then Everything Changed in the Bay of Bengal

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Welcome back to another episode of the

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Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Today on the podcast,

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we have another keynote

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speaker at Sharks International 2026.

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Zoya Tiabji, who is

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from India originally,

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but she is doing her PhD at Dalhousie.

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She talks about her story

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and how excited she is to go

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to Sharks International to be that,

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one of the keynote speakers.

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And it's an amazing story.

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You're gonna wanna hear it.

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We're talking in

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islands in the Bay of Bengal,

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but not where you expect.

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And so it's gonna be a lot of fun to find

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out more about this island.

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So let's start the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back to another

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exciting episode of

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the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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I'm your cohost Andrew Lewin here with my

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host, Dr. David Ebert.

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We're gonna start the show and
let's get started.

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I've been doing stuff before cause you're familiar.

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Was it because you're familiar with Zoya

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or have you had other people who have

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done that?

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I actually, actually,

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I actually published a paper with some

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Indian colleagues on a new record of a

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Shark from there.

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Oh, okay. Right on. Okay.

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So I, yeah, I was aware.

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I was aware of it.

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In fact, I've done a couple of new

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species from that part of the world.

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So I actually was

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surprised that I was aware of it.

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But that was only because I had

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collaborated with a

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couple of people on it.

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If you'd asked me before

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that I would have been like,

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I don't know.

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I had to look, I'd have opened up a, open

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up and look on a map to find the place.

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I didn't know about it then. So yeah. So

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I did have a little insight,

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but it seemed like one of those

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fascinating places in a

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part of the world that

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almost nobody knows about. And, uh,

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especially if you're listening today,

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go out and check out the

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abdomen, abdomen islands,

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where you'll hear a lot about Zoya

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talking about it

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because Andrew and I found

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it fascinating. Uh, and she was working

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on the, on the wildlife and I think your

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comment, well, we'll talk about your

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comments afterwards, but, uh,

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on some of the wildlife. It was a good,

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it was really good. It was,

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it was a clean comment. It was a good

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comment on the wildlife out there, but,

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but yeah, she didn't go out there to

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study the sharks. She went

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out there, do terrestrial

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biology out there and ended up doing

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ended up coming away to

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work on the sharks. So yeah,

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that's a very, very interesting path,

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which again, I think

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it's, I think it's awesome to,

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you know, you start on one thing, you're

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going out to an Island,

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which is kind of cool,

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but you're also, um, you know, working on

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land animals and land

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conservation and then getting

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into, you know, as you'll hear another

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type of conservation before

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sharks. So it's really cool

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to be able to, for her to be able to tell

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us about that. And again,

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just goes to show that if you

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take, you know, opportunities, you never

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know what it'll turn into.

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And, uh, this one definitely

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turned out well for, for Zoya, who was

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just finishing up her

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PhD, which is great. So let's

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get into the interview with Zoya to Abji

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enjoy, and we'll talk

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to you after. Hey, Zoya,

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welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast. Are

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you ready to talk about sharks?

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I am. Thanks so much for having me.

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Wonderful. Well, welcome to another

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Beyond Jaws podcast.

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We have another incredible guest today,

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who also be one of the

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keynote speakers at the upcoming

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sharks international this year. Andrew

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and I have been featuring these, uh,

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several of the keynote,

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uh, speakers this year who have not

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previously been on the Beyond Jaws

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podcast yet. And today we

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have the fabulous Zoya Tabi Tabi's

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speech. Sorry, pronounced the name of it,

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but she'll correct me

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about herself. Um, anyway, we're very

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happy to have her here. Zoya is a PhD

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candidate at Dalhousie

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University in Canada, where she part,

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where she is part of the collaborative

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project that aims to

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unravel the global shark meat trade. Her

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doctoral research

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specifically examines sharks and racist

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ray fisheries and trade in India through

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an interdisciplinary

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lens that uses quantitative

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and qualitative approaches. Prior to her

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PhD, she worked as an

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education officer with a local

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NGO in the Adam and islands, where she

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also conducted research on the

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terrestrial behavior

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of sea crates and coral reef ecosystems.

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Seeing a research gap to

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fill, she started working on

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elaso breaks in about 2016 and with

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support from funding

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organizations like the Conservation

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Leadership Program and the Rutherford

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Foundation. She also worked as

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a project coordinator for the

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Wildlife Conservation Society of India,

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where she initiated a

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shark and ray program. Her work

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bridges research conservation and

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community engagement with a focus on

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improving understanding

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and sustainable management of marine

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species. She has a BSC in zoology from a

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university in Mumbai, India.

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She also has an MSC from in biodiversity,

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also from India, and she's

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currently working on her PhD

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Dalhousie in Canada and

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Zoya, welcome to the show.

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Thanks so much Dave and

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thank you both. You bet, you bet.

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Oh, we'll start off like we always start

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with all of our guests, like

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how did you get interested in marine

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science and in sharks?

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So I was actually, I was very lucky

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growing up that I was exposed to the

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outdoors at a really

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early age and my family and I would spend

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time on the beach every

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summer and I kind of just

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associated the beach with something I

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loved, but I didn't really know what,

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yeah, didn't really know

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like what career that would take me in

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and I think it was like in fourth or

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fifth grade that my sister

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wanted to be a marine biologist and I was

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terrible at studies so I was like perfect

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because I love, I was a water baby and I

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love animals and I kind

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of naively assumed that,

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yeah, that was what I wanted to do and

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that kind of stuck with

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me for a really long time

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and it was I think during my undergrad

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that I had a very

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influential professor who

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she was a marine biologist and she

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exposed me to the field.

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Everybody, so I think until then,

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like I, well everyone went on to do

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either engineering or

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become a doctor. I was like,

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okay, I really want to like stay with you

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being a marine biologist.

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So during my undergrad, I

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actually volunteered a lot but they were

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mostly focused on

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terrestrial systems but I, because

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that's where like a lot of the

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opportunities were and but I, my, the

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professor that I mentioned,

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like her name was Smithamam and she is,

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she was really influential

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for like a lot of us to get

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into the field. So she provided me with

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an opportunity to

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volunteer with a PhD student who

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was actually studying marine mammals but

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that was kind of like my

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intro to marine biology

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and I never really wanted to, I mean I

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never really thought of

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like studying sharks for say

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but I ended up doing like a lot of other

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volunteering work and

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also internships and

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I got this opportunity to work as an

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education officer in the

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Andaman Islands after my master's.

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So that I think was another like really

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important moment in my life where I was

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just exposed to like,

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it was a field base, it was a field

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station which had a lot of

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experiential education programs

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but there were also researchers who were

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looking at invasive species on

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terrestrial systems and

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also marine systems. So it was a really,

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like I just got exposed to

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like a whole lot of work that

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was being done and I think I was there

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for like three, four years.

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In the Andaman Islands?

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In the Andaman Islands.

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Wow.

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Before I, and I was working on coral

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reefs and I, because like in textbook is

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we've always just learned about sharks

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being like effects predators and I was

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like, okay, we've not seen any sharks. So

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like, where are all the sharks at?

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And I think so, and I also didn't know

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how to study that, but I knew like, okay,

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that's probably, and I,

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and nobody was in the Andamans, nobody

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was studying that either.

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And I think I, like there was another

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researcher, Dupani,

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who was also a citation

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marine mammal biologist. So she had just

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started studying sharks,

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she's a bit in a grant.

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So I kind of reached out to

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her and Rima had helped her.

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So I got in touch with both

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of them who kind of guided me

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with the fishline in surveys.

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So I, that's how my journey into being a

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shark and reef person

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started essentially.

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Well, I got to ask you one important

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question though. Did your

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sister pursue marine biology?

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She needed a lot and it was, it was

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really funny because, um, so I think we

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changed cities a lot growing up

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and she did not have the marks and she

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had really high marks and

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she did not make the cutoff

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to get into science. Um, and that kind of

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determined her career path.

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And, uh, I was in another, you know, in

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another school which had, which required

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the lower box.

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Strategic. I like it. And your sister

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01:09:50,750 --> 01:09:52,041
still speak with you today.

278
01:09:53,958 --> 01:09:57,000
She does. Oh, good. Good. What does she

279
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,125
do for a living? So, so

280
01:09:59,125 --> 01:10:00,625
she is actually a lawyer.

281
01:10:00,666 --> 01:10:04,583
Oh, okay. So she is. She's a land shark.

282
01:10:04,625 --> 01:10:06,083
In other words, yeah.

283
01:10:06,291 --> 01:10:09,708
An environmental lawyer

284
01:10:09,708 --> 01:10:10,958
or a corporate lawyer?

285
01:10:13,666 --> 01:10:19,833
So I got, so I'm kind of curious, like

286
01:10:19,833 --> 01:10:21,458
the, the Andaman islands are one of those

287
01:10:21,458 --> 01:10:22,583
places that most people you

288
01:10:23,041 --> 01:10:25,208
you have to go look at a map to figure

289
01:10:25,208 --> 01:10:26,708
out like where the hell is this?

290
01:10:27,458 --> 01:10:29,041
And, um, well, I kind of know a little

291
01:10:29,041 --> 01:10:30,375
bit because of the papers. I

292
01:10:30,375 --> 01:10:31,583
know she's published with Rima

293
01:10:32,333 --> 01:10:35,666
in the past and I know and, uh, um, and a

294
01:10:35,666 --> 01:10:36,250
few other people

295
01:10:36,250 --> 01:10:38,500
there, but you, you, you,

296
01:10:38,833 --> 01:10:40,791
just so I'm clear, and Adamin's are part

297
01:10:40,791 --> 01:10:42,833
of India, correct? Yes, they

298
01:10:42,833 --> 01:10:45,000
are. Okay. And, and so like,

299
01:10:45,583 --> 01:10:47,291
well, what, tell us about this one place

300
01:10:47,291 --> 01:10:49,041
that almost nobody knows about. So why

301
01:10:49,041 --> 01:10:49,708
don't you tell us a little bit?

302
01:10:49,708 --> 01:10:50,458
What's, what's the islands

303
01:10:50,458 --> 01:10:56,708
like? Um, so, uh, so I, um, yeah,

304
01:10:56,750 --> 01:10:59,000
I got an opportunity and I kind of went

305
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:01,750
for it because, uh, I, the only thing I

306
01:11:01,750 --> 01:11:02,833
wanted to do was dive.

307
01:11:04,916 --> 01:11:07,583
Is the diving good out there? It is. It's

308
01:11:07,583 --> 01:11:09,250
excellent. Because it's

309
01:11:09,250 --> 01:11:11,291
actually closer to, uh,

310
01:11:11,500 --> 01:11:13,875
Southeast Asia than, and the coral

311
01:11:13,875 --> 01:11:17,833
triangle, then to peninsular India. Um,

312
01:11:17,833 --> 01:11:19,125
so, which is why the

313
01:11:19,125 --> 01:11:22,333
diving there is excellent. And, uh, I was

314
01:11:22,333 --> 01:11:24,291
also like on a project that looked at the

315
01:11:24,291 --> 01:11:25,041
concrete resilience.

316
01:11:25,958 --> 01:11:29,750
Um, and so when, uh, so then I went there

317
01:11:29,750 --> 01:11:31,541
in 2050 and like it was

318
01:11:31,541 --> 01:11:32,750
soon after my masters.

319
01:11:33,708 --> 01:11:37,625
Um, and, um, we were living in, uh, it's

320
01:11:37,625 --> 01:11:39,833
a secondary forest, a field

321
01:11:39,833 --> 01:11:42,541
station. Uh, so they had, um,

322
01:11:42,916 --> 01:11:44,750
it's, it's a really, really, like I would

323
01:11:44,750 --> 01:11:47,166
highly recommend going there because even

324
01:11:47,166 --> 01:11:48,750
like the setup and everything was,

325
01:11:48,833 --> 01:11:52,500
is, uh, pretty amazing. Like they've

326
01:11:52,500 --> 01:11:54,500
tried to incorporate the field station

327
01:11:54,500 --> 01:11:57,500
within the entire field, uh, station.

328
01:11:58,250 --> 01:12:02,500
Uh, it was also an excellent, um, uh, it,

329
01:12:02,750 --> 01:12:05,583
uh, yeah, I have so many, like things to

330
01:12:05,583 --> 01:12:07,083
say about that from like,

331
01:12:07,541 --> 01:12:11,041
uh, a whole ecology perspective because

332
01:12:11,041 --> 01:12:13,666
like, oh, uh, island is so

333
01:12:13,666 --> 01:12:15,833
fascinating in terms of like,

334
01:12:16,083 --> 01:12:19,875
um, just, uh, things like the, like the

335
01:12:19,875 --> 01:12:22,250
British introduced, um, so

336
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:23,541
just the history of it is

337
01:12:23,541 --> 01:12:27,166
really fascinating, uh, because it's,

338
01:12:27,166 --> 01:12:29,875
it's, it's what it used to be a place

339
01:12:29,875 --> 01:12:31,000
like it used to be called

340
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:33,458
Alapani Black Waters. It used to be a

341
01:12:33,458 --> 01:12:35,500
place where they would put Indian freedom

342
01:12:35,500 --> 01:12:37,375
fighters as prisoners.

343
01:12:38,166 --> 01:12:42,166
Um, and so, and, um, then over time there

344
01:12:42,166 --> 01:12:43,583
was also a lot of settler

345
01:12:43,583 --> 01:12:45,625
communities who went there.

346
01:12:46,375 --> 01:12:48,833
Um, so it like, it just has like a

347
01:12:48,833 --> 01:12:50,958
really, um, and there were, there were

348
01:12:50,958 --> 01:12:53,541
also tribes there. So it just has like a

349
01:12:53,541 --> 01:12:54,583
really interesting,

350
01:12:54,583 --> 01:12:57,208
uh, social aspect to it.

351
01:12:59,375 --> 01:13:02,083
And in terms of like biodiversity, like

352
01:13:02,083 --> 01:13:04,541
we were even where we were living, the

353
01:13:04,541 --> 01:13:05,916
field station, it had,

354
01:13:05,958 --> 01:13:08,875
uh, like it had the andaman king cobra,

355
01:13:09,166 --> 01:13:11,333
it had like all these, uh, the pit

356
01:13:11,333 --> 01:13:14,041
bifors, um, there's a

357
01:13:14,041 --> 01:13:16,583
luha bar crocodile sanctuary, right

358
01:13:16,583 --> 01:13:19,125
adjacent to the field bays.

359
01:13:20,208 --> 01:13:21,833
Um, so there was just a lot of

360
01:13:21,833 --> 01:13:23,500
It sounds like a lot of

361
01:13:23,500 --> 01:13:25,291
animals that can kill you.

362
01:13:25,291 --> 01:13:31,500
Are the crocodiles endemic out there? No,

363
01:13:31,791 --> 01:13:32,750
so these are the salt

364
01:13:32,750 --> 01:13:34,291
bees, but they are not endemic.

365
01:13:36,333 --> 01:13:37,666
How far, how, okay. I got asked cause

366
01:13:37,666 --> 01:13:39,875
I've been had crocodiles in my mind, the

367
01:13:39,875 --> 01:13:41,458
salties the last couple of years from all

368
01:13:41,458 --> 01:13:42,458
the places I've been going.

369
01:13:43,125 --> 01:13:46,125
Um, how did they, do they, how far out is

370
01:13:46,125 --> 01:13:49,958
the, the Adam is from like anywhere, like

371
01:13:49,958 --> 01:13:52,708
mainland or main continental landmass?

372
01:13:54,625 --> 01:13:57,291
I mean, so I should know this, but I

373
01:13:57,291 --> 01:13:59,250
forgot like the

374
01:13:59,250 --> 01:14:01,125
kilometers. I mean, I mean,

375
01:14:01,208 --> 01:14:02,583
are we talking these crocodiles had to

376
01:14:02,583 --> 01:14:03,250
travel like a

377
01:14:03,250 --> 01:14:04,458
thousand miles or something?

378
01:14:05,875 --> 01:14:09,041
Yeah, so I think crocodiles travel a

379
01:14:09,041 --> 01:14:10,875
really long distance, but they're all

380
01:14:10,875 --> 01:14:12,250
resident over there.

381
01:14:13,166 --> 01:14:14,916
Right. Okay. Okay. So they've been there

382
01:14:14,916 --> 01:14:17,000
for a while. They've been there for once

383
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,166
they got there. Okay.

384
01:14:18,958 --> 01:14:21,208
Okay. Yeah, I would not have thought they

385
01:14:21,208 --> 01:14:22,083
would have been out there

386
01:14:22,083 --> 01:14:24,541
because I, I, I know, well,

387
01:14:24,541 --> 01:14:25,916
I know roughly where it is and it's not

388
01:14:25,916 --> 01:14:27,541
near any land masses

389
01:14:27,541 --> 01:14:28,625
where I would have been, uh,

390
01:14:28,666 --> 01:14:31,708
I would expect of that. So it, so the, so

391
01:14:31,708 --> 01:14:33,208
the wildlife over there can kill you.

392
01:14:33,708 --> 01:14:38,708
There's a lot of it. So it doesn't. And

393
01:14:38,708 --> 01:14:40,958
like there is a, there is a lot of

394
01:14:40,958 --> 01:14:43,625
conflict with crocodiles per se,

395
01:14:44,166 --> 01:14:47,125
but, um, I think that's also like a few

396
01:14:47,125 --> 01:14:48,541
researchers are studying

397
01:14:48,541 --> 01:14:50,833
that and even with, um,

398
01:14:51,166 --> 01:14:53,083
but that's interesting part that like,

399
01:14:53,083 --> 01:14:55,333
even though there are such venomous

400
01:14:55,333 --> 01:14:57,541
snakes over there and like

401
01:14:57,750 --> 01:15:01,083
other endemic creatures, uh, but yeah,

402
01:15:01,083 --> 01:15:03,333
there's, there have hardly been any

403
01:15:03,333 --> 01:15:05,333
deaths that they do live in like.

404
01:15:06,833 --> 01:15:08,958
Yeah. Is it a, is it a very populated

405
01:15:08,958 --> 01:15:10,500
island, like human

406
01:15:10,500 --> 01:15:12,500
populated island or is this like

407
01:15:12,500 --> 01:15:15,833
serious virus become now? So around like,

408
01:15:15,833 --> 01:15:17,583
um, I think in the last,

409
01:15:17,583 --> 01:15:20,833
like in 2015, when I went there,

410
01:15:21,041 --> 01:15:23,875
there was, um, like it was really hard.

411
01:15:23,875 --> 01:15:25,416
That's why I had to like write papers

412
01:15:25,416 --> 01:15:26,208
because there was no

413
01:15:26,291 --> 01:15:28,166
internet connectivity, like there's

414
01:15:28,166 --> 01:15:30,000
hardly any internet connectivity. Like we

415
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:32,125
had to go to the main city.

416
01:15:32,458 --> 01:15:36,333
Um, which was a couple of hours and, um,

417
01:15:36,750 --> 01:15:40,958
but, uh, now I think like in the last,

418
01:15:40,958 --> 01:15:43,291
like maybe five to 10 years,

419
01:15:43,375 --> 01:15:46,458
um, the marine field has grown a lot and

420
01:15:46,458 --> 01:15:49,458
people have become more aware of, uh,

421
01:15:49,458 --> 01:15:52,333
diving and they want to die.

422
01:15:52,375 --> 01:15:54,750
So it's become, um, like the tourism has

423
01:15:54,750 --> 01:15:56,458
increased there a lot.

424
01:15:56,916 --> 01:15:59,000
Gotcha. Are the islands,

425
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,750
are they a volcanic in origin?

426
01:16:02,125 --> 01:16:04,041
Yeah. So there is, uh, there is an

427
01:16:04,041 --> 01:16:07,916
active, uh, volcano, uh, called barren

428
01:16:07,916 --> 01:16:14,000
island, um, close by and, uh, yeah, I've,

429
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,000
uh, like I, when I was there,

430
01:16:16,125 --> 01:16:18,333
it wasn't very accessible, but now I

431
01:16:18,333 --> 01:16:21,041
think with a lot of, uh, increase in

432
01:16:21,041 --> 01:16:25,208
diving and tourism, like it's, uh, it's a

433
01:16:25,208 --> 01:16:27,041
pretty good spot today.

434
01:16:27,333 --> 01:16:28,791
Okay. Yeah. I was kind of curious, like

435
01:16:28,791 --> 01:16:30,166
how, what, what sort of, what the, uh,

436
01:16:30,375 --> 01:16:32,541
the origin of the whole, whole island out

437
01:16:32,541 --> 01:16:34,250
there was, um, it was

438
01:16:34,250 --> 01:16:36,125
like a fascinating place. Like you had an

439
01:16:36,125 --> 01:16:38,666
opportunity to go, because nobody has

440
01:16:38,666 --> 01:16:39,541
really done anything like,

441
01:16:39,791 --> 01:16:41,208
well, I say, I don't know

442
01:16:41,250 --> 01:16:42,500
anything about the wildlife there other

443
01:16:42,500 --> 01:16:44,125
than what you just told us, but like with

444
01:16:44,125 --> 01:16:46,500
the sharks and rays out there, there

445
01:16:46,500 --> 01:16:48,500
really hasn't been much done out there.

446
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:52,000
Yeah. And that was such a interesting,

447
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:54,416
um, like that was such a research gap

448
01:16:54,416 --> 01:16:58,000
that even I, um, like it was such a great

449
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,208
opportunity for me to

450
01:16:59,208 --> 01:17:01,500
like start and feel as well.

451
01:17:02,166 --> 01:17:05,541
Okay. Oh yeah. So, so you mentioned

452
01:17:05,541 --> 01:17:08,375
earlier that like when you were in, when

453
01:17:08,375 --> 01:17:09,833
you did your zoology program, there

454
01:17:09,833 --> 01:17:11,375
wasn't a lot going on in the marine

455
01:17:11,375 --> 01:17:13,750
science. A lot of the volunteer ships and

456
01:17:13,750 --> 01:17:15,333
things like that were on land.

457
01:17:16,166 --> 01:17:19,166
Um, in India, do they, do they study the

458
01:17:19,166 --> 01:17:20,791
ocean a lot when you went to school?

459
01:17:20,791 --> 01:17:22,833
Like, were there, you know, nonprofit

460
01:17:22,833 --> 01:17:25,875
organizations or institutes that studied,

461
01:17:25,875 --> 01:17:28,541
you know, just like ecology or

462
01:17:28,541 --> 01:17:30,333
biodiversity in the ocean as well?

463
01:17:30,333 --> 01:17:34,875
Uh, so there were a few, uh, but I wasn't

464
01:17:34,875 --> 01:17:37,333
exposed to them. So I got exposed to them

465
01:17:37,333 --> 01:17:41,291
only after I started my own project with

466
01:17:41,291 --> 01:17:44,916
the animals and into the wildlife field.

467
01:17:44,916 --> 01:17:48,708
Yeah. But, um, like I was not exposed to

468
01:17:48,708 --> 01:17:53,083
that. And even today, like my, I think in

469
01:17:53,083 --> 01:17:55,791
the last couple of years, it's people are

470
01:17:55,791 --> 01:17:58,125
a little aware. But even today, my

471
01:17:58,125 --> 01:18:00,333
parents kind of have no idea.

472
01:18:01,333 --> 01:18:05,541
The practical need is in my opinion,

473
01:18:05,541 --> 01:18:06,166
they'reaking I get the

474
01:18:06,166 --> 01:18:06,916
notion that they're going to

475
01:18:06,916 --> 01:18:13,666
add more fish in a way. Is the State of

476
01:18:13,666 --> 01:18:13,875
the Three pages idea of the are the deal

477
01:18:13,875 --> 01:18:17,625
of how you might, to sort of explain to

478
01:18:17,625 --> 01:18:21,916
them this position, I mean, Rendez was

479
01:18:21,916 --> 01:18:25,625
absolutely myths about fish because you

480
01:18:25,625 --> 01:18:27,458
don't feel like living famous, but yeah,

481
01:18:27,458 --> 01:18:29,500
in that case, you don't feel like going.

482
01:18:30,375 --> 01:18:34,083
like protected area or like now it's I

483
01:18:34,083 --> 01:18:36,750
think the there's a lot

484
01:18:36,750 --> 01:18:40,500
of Marines up going on in the news. So

485
01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:41,625
they'll send me that

486
01:18:41,625 --> 01:18:43,083
and I'm like, okay, so that's

487
01:18:43,083 --> 01:18:44,500
something along the lines of

488
01:18:44,500 --> 01:18:46,750
what I love it.

489
01:18:46,916 --> 01:18:48,166
That's good. They show an interest.

490
01:18:48,166 --> 01:18:48,833
They're sending it to

491
01:18:48,833 --> 01:18:50,291
you. They're like, Oh, yeah.

492
01:18:51,458 --> 01:18:53,583
And so so it was in the Adam and islands,

493
01:18:53,583 --> 01:18:54,250
you kind of first got

494
01:18:54,250 --> 01:18:57,583
interested in sharks and rays. Yes. Yeah.

495
01:18:58,041 --> 01:18:59,000
And can you go in the

496
01:18:59,041 --> 01:19:00,666
house and how can you go over that a

497
01:19:00,666 --> 01:19:02,041
little more? How what

498
01:19:02,041 --> 01:19:02,250
happened?

499
01:19:03,916 --> 01:19:06,583
So again, that was like, oh, like my

500
01:19:06,583 --> 01:19:08,083
entry into I think the

501
01:19:08,083 --> 01:19:11,041
marine fields like me, it was a very

502
01:19:11,041 --> 01:19:13,291
naive entry into like even

503
01:19:13,291 --> 01:19:14,708
just studying sharks and rays,

504
01:19:15,208 --> 01:19:17,916
because I had no idea what it

505
01:19:17,916 --> 01:19:19,625
I like I don't think I was

506
01:19:19,625 --> 01:19:25,125
prepared for it too much. But I

507
01:19:25,125 --> 01:19:27,125
knew I wanted to do it. So

508
01:19:27,125 --> 01:19:30,416
I, I received a and I'd never

509
01:19:30,416 --> 01:19:32,583
interned or volunteered for anything

510
01:19:32,583 --> 01:19:35,125
sharks related. So I

511
01:19:35,208 --> 01:19:41,416
also I wrote the ruffled grant, the small

512
01:19:41,416 --> 01:19:44,750
grant, and the future

513
01:19:44,750 --> 01:19:49,250
conservation award by the CLP. And I got

514
01:19:49,250 --> 01:19:51,083
funding to carry out

515
01:19:51,166 --> 01:19:54,458
this. So I visited site,

516
01:19:55,166 --> 01:19:56,875
even when I was conducting like

517
01:19:56,875 --> 01:19:59,083
education activities and all I would talk

518
01:19:59,083 --> 01:20:00,750
to the locals a lot who

519
01:20:00,750 --> 01:20:03,166
would tell me about, you know, how they

520
01:20:03,166 --> 01:20:04,791
used to be sharks, even

521
01:20:04,791 --> 01:20:08,708
divers who would tell me that. And but

522
01:20:08,708 --> 01:20:10,625
like today, there were no

523
01:20:10,625 --> 01:20:13,791
sharks and there is fourth. And when I

524
01:20:13,791 --> 01:20:14,791
went to the fish landing

525
01:20:14,875 --> 01:20:18,500
site, that's where like, just one visit,

526
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:20,666
I would see like, more

527
01:20:20,708 --> 01:20:23,333
than 200 sharks being landed from like,

528
01:20:23,333 --> 01:20:24,500
and it was like such a huge

529
01:20:24,541 --> 01:20:32,666
diversity, right, that I started. I just

530
01:20:32,666 --> 01:20:36,208
visited the fish landing site. And just

531
01:20:36,208 --> 01:20:37,666
yeah, started. And I

532
01:20:37,666 --> 01:20:39,541
remember like even talking to a few

533
01:20:39,583 --> 01:20:42,166
researchers, I think that phase was

534
01:20:42,166 --> 01:20:45,250
pretty difficult now that I think about

535
01:20:45,333 --> 01:20:47,500
it. But at that time, I just kind of had

536
01:20:47,500 --> 01:20:51,958
to go for it. I did like I even just

537
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,333
talking about it with researchers, you

538
01:20:54,333 --> 01:20:56,458
know, a lot of researchers were kind of

539
01:20:57,125 --> 01:20:58,708
like, they were like, No, this isn't

540
01:20:58,708 --> 01:21:00,166
going to work because you know, the

541
01:21:00,166 --> 01:21:01,708
officials don't have the time or they're

542
01:21:01,708 --> 01:21:03,000
not gonna give you like,

543
01:21:04,583 --> 01:21:07,791
permission to do that. So there were we

544
01:21:07,791 --> 01:21:09,333
were also having talks of like,

545
01:21:09,666 --> 01:21:12,000
because in coral reefs, when you take a

546
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:15,750
photo, then you you can kind of after

547
01:21:15,791 --> 01:21:19,541
that look at imagery and look at a lot of

548
01:21:19,541 --> 01:21:22,250
components. So I remember a few

549
01:21:22,250 --> 01:21:23,958
researchers kind of suggested that just

550
01:21:23,958 --> 01:21:25,791
go to the fish landing, take a photo and

551
01:21:25,791 --> 01:21:27,583
then come back and like look at the

552
01:21:27,583 --> 01:21:29,708
sharks and rays through imagery like,

553
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:33,916
yeah, all of that. But I am I just

554
01:21:33,916 --> 01:21:35,958
started like, visiting the fish

555
01:21:36,083 --> 01:21:40,500
landing site. And and this was about like

556
01:21:40,500 --> 01:21:41,416
more than an hour

557
01:21:41,416 --> 01:21:44,208
away. So I used to go by

558
01:21:44,291 --> 01:21:47,458
motorcycle with my field assistant, early

559
01:21:47,458 --> 01:21:50,500
in the hours like, and

560
01:21:50,500 --> 01:21:53,625
just so I think the first

561
01:21:53,708 --> 01:21:58,500
month, I just spend time at the fish

562
01:21:58,500 --> 01:22:00,875
landing site, I was a bit of an

563
01:22:00,875 --> 01:22:02,041
introvert. So I also

564
01:22:02,125 --> 01:22:04,291
didn't know how to approach them. And I

565
01:22:04,291 --> 01:22:08,958
didn't want to do. And I think I was I

566
01:22:08,958 --> 01:22:10,875
had something else. And I couldn't go

567
01:22:10,875 --> 01:22:12,083
there for like a month,

568
01:22:12,416 --> 01:22:15,416
or sorry, a week. And during that time,

569
01:22:15,416 --> 01:22:17,458
and I went back, the officials were like,

570
01:22:17,458 --> 01:22:18,708
Okay, where were you like,

571
01:22:20,208 --> 01:22:23,583
so they knew you were there. Yeah. And

572
01:22:23,583 --> 01:22:25,208
because I would only talk to them like I

573
01:22:25,208 --> 01:22:26,541
was I was pretty shy

574
01:22:26,541 --> 01:22:28,041
as well. And I was an

575
01:22:28,041 --> 01:22:32,833
introvert. So they and that's like what

576
01:22:32,833 --> 01:22:35,208
initiated the conversations and

577
01:22:35,208 --> 01:22:37,666
discussions. And I kind of told them like

578
01:22:37,666 --> 01:22:39,500
what I was doing and what I was

579
01:22:39,500 --> 01:22:40,916
studying and what I was trying to look

580
01:22:40,916 --> 01:22:43,875
at. But I did want to I went in with a

581
01:22:43,875 --> 01:22:46,750
mindset of like, I wanted to know

582
01:22:46,750 --> 01:22:48,583
basically what sharks and rays were found

583
01:22:48,791 --> 01:22:50,041
there. I'm looking at the catch

584
01:22:50,041 --> 01:22:56,000
composition. And so I did follow like the

585
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:59,500
protocol by like Fremont folks at the

586
01:22:59,500 --> 01:23:01,166
landing site. But the

587
01:23:01,166 --> 01:23:02,833
officials themselves like

588
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:05,375
helped me a lot. They were like, Okay,

589
01:23:05,375 --> 01:23:10,708
here you go. Like, just do it. And so I

590
01:23:10,708 --> 01:23:14,291
think even like they were very interested

591
01:23:14,291 --> 01:23:15,875
in that too, because I

592
01:23:15,875 --> 01:23:17,291
used to like, so there

593
01:23:17,333 --> 01:23:21,083
was me and my field of the person who was

594
01:23:21,083 --> 01:23:24,875
helping me my field assistant. And one of

595
01:23:24,875 --> 01:23:27,291
us would like measure all the sharks and

596
01:23:27,291 --> 01:23:28,833
one of us was also saying it

597
01:23:28,875 --> 01:23:31,166
allowed like the sex and like this is

598
01:23:31,166 --> 01:23:34,083
this and like a measurements. So so some

599
01:23:34,083 --> 01:23:36,625
of the officials were just fascinated by

600
01:23:36,625 --> 01:23:39,291
like, you know, how you how

601
01:23:39,291 --> 01:23:40,583
you tell a male and a female

602
01:23:40,791 --> 01:23:43,125
apart, or like they would give us like

603
01:23:43,125 --> 01:23:46,166
more information about that. But it just

604
01:23:46,166 --> 01:23:49,500
became like such a easy and like cost

605
01:23:49,500 --> 01:23:51,916
effective but like important study

606
01:23:51,916 --> 01:23:53,958
because I I did that for

607
01:23:53,958 --> 01:23:55,500
like I used to go almost every

608
01:23:56,041 --> 01:23:59,666
alternate day for a year and a half. And

609
01:23:59,666 --> 01:24:04,083
I just got so much information on like

610
01:24:04,083 --> 01:24:06,666
all the species that were there, the

611
01:24:06,666 --> 01:24:14,083
volumes, the fisheries, the the biology

612
01:24:14,083 --> 01:24:15,916
like the sex majority how

613
01:24:15,916 --> 01:24:17,250
these species are using the

614
01:24:17,250 --> 01:24:21,583
waters, even on like fisheries aspects,

615
01:24:22,208 --> 01:24:24,791
and even just talking to the officials

616
01:24:24,791 --> 01:24:26,666
themselves like listening to their

617
01:24:26,666 --> 01:24:28,625
stories, because like even when they

618
01:24:28,625 --> 01:24:31,625
asked me like questions, and I realized

619
01:24:31,625 --> 01:24:34,291
that even I didn't know anything beyond

620
01:24:34,291 --> 01:24:36,500
like maybe a hammerhead or like some

621
01:24:36,541 --> 01:24:38,958
basic sharks and rays when I went there.

622
01:24:39,958 --> 01:24:42,125
But I also like something that I was good

623
01:24:42,125 --> 01:24:45,875
at was like just recording and like

624
01:24:45,875 --> 01:24:49,083
managing the time. So I did have like a

625
01:24:49,083 --> 01:24:53,000
really good way to like enter the data

626
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:55,250
that like even if I didn't know something

627
01:24:55,250 --> 01:24:58,291
I could kind of ask somebody later on. So

628
01:24:58,291 --> 01:24:59,625
there was like a good photo

629
01:24:59,625 --> 01:25:02,208
documentation and just reporting

630
01:25:02,416 --> 01:25:05,958
of that. So which is why I could like,

631
01:25:06,333 --> 01:25:09,083
yeah, look at like the biology and the

632
01:25:09,083 --> 01:25:13,333
gas composition aspects. But I after

633
01:25:13,333 --> 01:25:15,291
talking to the officials, I was also I'm

634
01:25:15,291 --> 01:25:18,333
like talking to researchers who had like

635
01:25:18,333 --> 01:25:19,083
we always had this

636
01:25:19,083 --> 01:25:20,458
narrative that you know, like the

637
01:25:20,500 --> 01:25:24,500
officials probably won't help or the and

638
01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:26,708
there was also a lot of like confusion

639
01:25:26,708 --> 01:25:30,791
between the legality of the species.

640
01:25:32,208 --> 01:25:34,583
Because so when I was talking to them, I

641
01:25:34,583 --> 01:25:38,833
kind of I then also looked at the socio

642
01:25:38,833 --> 01:25:40,916
economics and looked at the utilization

643
01:25:40,916 --> 01:25:42,666
and consumption of sharks.

644
01:25:43,416 --> 01:25:46,916
Because I saw you went in, I think I this

645
01:25:46,916 --> 01:25:52,166
project between 2017 and 2018 19. But I'd

646
01:25:52,166 --> 01:25:56,083
heard of my team the 1990s with those

647
01:25:56,083 --> 01:25:59,041
shark fin export, there was a huge target

648
01:25:59,041 --> 01:26:01,750
fisheries in the Andaman Islands, which a

649
01:26:01,750 --> 01:26:04,875
lot of communities work out in former.

650
01:26:05,666 --> 01:26:08,916
And a lot of them had stopped that as

651
01:26:08,916 --> 01:26:11,458
well. But there was still like adopted

652
01:26:11,458 --> 01:26:14,083
fishery going on. So I kind of wanted to

653
01:26:14,083 --> 01:26:18,166
also understand the dynamics of like,

654
01:26:18,166 --> 01:26:20,666
okay, why are people in this fishery and

655
01:26:20,666 --> 01:26:22,958
why have some exited the fishery and how

656
01:26:22,958 --> 01:26:24,958
are they? And yeah,

657
01:26:24,958 --> 01:26:26,625
just following all of that.

658
01:26:27,375 --> 01:26:30,458
So there were like, it was just

659
01:26:30,458 --> 01:26:35,125
fascinating for me itself to like, get

660
01:26:35,125 --> 01:26:37,458
all of this information and to like, see

661
01:26:37,458 --> 01:26:40,750
these different angles of like how so for

662
01:26:40,750 --> 01:26:45,208
example, like the and it's it's also like

663
01:26:45,208 --> 01:26:49,375
it was so different with the social angle

664
01:26:49,375 --> 01:26:51,041
because there were also like all these

665
01:26:51,041 --> 01:26:54,500
different communities, especially when

666
01:26:54,500 --> 01:26:56,000
you think of like conservation, because

667
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:58,416
over here, there are like settler

668
01:26:58,416 --> 01:27:00,833
communities that were fishers themselves

669
01:27:00,833 --> 01:27:03,625
who had been brought by the government to

670
01:27:03,625 --> 01:27:06,125
the fishermen scheme. There were

671
01:27:06,125 --> 01:27:09,708
communities who were who had recently

672
01:27:09,708 --> 01:27:14,666
come. So all of them had like different

673
01:27:14,666 --> 01:27:18,875
access different like, yeah, there was

674
01:27:18,875 --> 01:27:21,875
such a different dynamic between all of

675
01:27:21,875 --> 01:27:24,125
all those decolos, basically,

676
01:27:24,708 --> 01:27:25,000
which was really interesting.

677
01:27:25,041 --> 01:27:29,791
Even like just in terms of utilization,

678
01:27:30,125 --> 01:27:32,333
like I saw a lot of communities who

679
01:27:32,333 --> 01:27:35,791
didn't normally have or consume sharks

680
01:27:35,791 --> 01:27:37,583
and rays, but because of like the

681
01:27:37,583 --> 01:27:40,708
influence of peninsular India with like,

682
01:27:40,708 --> 01:27:43,958
communities over there who consume them.

683
01:27:44,541 --> 01:27:46,875
That's what like, gave rise to

684
01:27:46,875 --> 01:27:47,000
consumption in the end.

685
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:51,625
Interesting. Isn't one of the islands out

686
01:27:51,625 --> 01:27:53,416
there, there isn't there a very primitive

687
01:27:53,416 --> 01:27:55,291
tribe that lives out in the, they

688
01:27:55,291 --> 01:27:57,875
actually there's a protected area that

689
01:27:57,875 --> 01:28:00,291
the Indian government has a very tribe

690
01:28:00,291 --> 01:28:02,333
that lives very primitive

691
01:28:02,333 --> 01:28:04,666
Lee, I guess, is that is that.

692
01:28:05,708 --> 01:28:07,250
Yeah, survivors. I think you're talking

693
01:28:07,250 --> 01:28:10,125
about those sentinel is the what I'm

694
01:28:10,125 --> 01:28:13,375
sorry, the sentinel is sent sentilis.

695
01:28:13,375 --> 01:28:15,000
Yes. So there are there are a couple of those.

696
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:23,500
tribes in the admins. But there are like,

697
01:28:23,791 --> 01:28:26,291
I think this one in particular has been

698
01:28:26,291 --> 01:28:30,333
in the media a lot because of like the

699
01:28:30,333 --> 01:28:35,250
interaction with people. Yeah. Yeah. I

700
01:28:35,250 --> 01:28:36,958
was kind of curious, because I know every

701
01:28:36,958 --> 01:28:38,541
once in a while you come across some play

702
01:28:38,541 --> 01:28:40,833
or you hear something in the news about

703
01:28:40,833 --> 01:28:42,250
about some areas that are

704
01:28:42,250 --> 01:28:44,000
their people are just live.

705
01:28:44,250 --> 01:28:46,625
Live for today, primitive Lee, but

706
01:28:46,625 --> 01:28:47,916
traditionally, however you want to

707
01:28:47,916 --> 01:28:49,500
afraid, but they basically have, they're

708
01:28:49,500 --> 01:28:50,666
still living the way they might have

709
01:28:50,666 --> 01:28:52,166
lived like, you know, hundreds of years

710
01:28:52,166 --> 01:28:54,375
ago and stuff is fascinating.

711
01:28:54,708 --> 01:28:55,958
That kind of stuff just sort of

712
01:28:55,958 --> 01:28:58,041
fascinates me. It's kind of interesting

713
01:28:58,041 --> 01:29:00,166
that with all the stuff going on

714
01:29:00,166 --> 01:29:03,166
everything and the way the world so

715
01:29:03,166 --> 01:29:04,666
technologically advanced, you see how

716
01:29:04,666 --> 01:29:06,541
people live in like just very primitive

717
01:29:06,541 --> 01:29:08,291
like that's kind of it's

718
01:29:08,291 --> 01:29:09,000
just really interesting.

719
01:29:09,041 --> 01:29:12,958
So, so, so when you're like, yeah, really

720
01:29:12,958 --> 01:29:15,125
interesting because I think the tsunami

721
01:29:15,125 --> 01:29:18,708
is a person tsunami that impacted the

722
01:29:18,708 --> 01:29:21,250
admins in a really, yeah, it

723
01:29:21,250 --> 01:29:23,000
impacted the eye. Oh, yeah.

724
01:29:23,333 --> 01:29:27,416
It was like a lot of even just local

725
01:29:27,416 --> 01:29:29,916
communities like just touring their

726
01:29:29,916 --> 01:29:33,458
stories of like how they like what they

727
01:29:33,458 --> 01:29:34,500
went through and they

728
01:29:34,500 --> 01:29:38,666
adapted was really just, okay.

729
01:29:39,083 --> 01:29:41,958
Oh, yeah. I didn't think how did you feel

730
01:29:41,958 --> 01:29:43,500
like at the beginning you said when you

731
01:29:43,500 --> 01:29:45,666
first got to the Adam and islands, you

732
01:29:45,666 --> 01:29:47,833
were doing a lot of work on coral reefs.

733
01:29:48,416 --> 01:29:49,666
And so you were wondering where the

734
01:29:49,666 --> 01:29:50,875
sharks were and you're like, well, hold

735
01:29:50,875 --> 01:29:51,791
on. Where are all these sharks?

736
01:29:52,541 --> 01:29:53,958
How did you feel when you went to these

737
01:29:53,958 --> 01:29:56,083
fish markets and you saw like hundreds of

738
01:29:56,083 --> 01:29:59,000
sharks like dead sharks? What kind of

739
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:00,791
questions were you were you asking there?

740
01:30:02,666 --> 01:30:06,250
So I definitely like I definitely feel

741
01:30:06,250 --> 01:30:08,958
like I did go through from like a very

742
01:30:08,958 --> 01:30:14,250
glamorous field in a way to like the fish

743
01:30:14,250 --> 01:30:17,291
landing science like diving every day to

744
01:30:17,291 --> 01:30:19,500
like, yeah, because I like even just

745
01:30:19,500 --> 01:30:20,208
working at the fish

746
01:30:20,208 --> 01:30:21,916
landing sites like I used to be.

747
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:23,791
It's really stinky and

748
01:30:23,791 --> 01:30:26,541
it's even like a dirty job.

749
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:30,916
Yeah, and I could never like I remember I

750
01:30:30,916 --> 01:30:34,750
had my field session in the morning. And

751
01:30:34,750 --> 01:30:37,291
then I was I couldn't go back to the

752
01:30:37,291 --> 01:30:39,875
field days because I had I had to book a

753
01:30:39,875 --> 01:30:42,583
ticket for train ticket or something so I

754
01:30:42,583 --> 01:30:43,458
had to go to the station.

755
01:30:44,333 --> 01:30:47,166
And I was and I had just gone directly

756
01:30:47,166 --> 01:30:49,208
after the fish landing site and I was

757
01:30:49,208 --> 01:30:50,708
used to the smell by now.

758
01:30:50,708 --> 01:30:52,416
So I didn't really care.

759
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:56,250
And I went there and I saw like this huge

760
01:30:56,250 --> 01:30:58,708
line for the waiting for them to take the

761
01:30:58,708 --> 01:31:03,625
ticket. And I was like, okay, I waited in

762
01:31:03,625 --> 01:31:05,875
the line behind. And then suddenly

763
01:31:05,875 --> 01:31:07,125
everyone was like, no,

764
01:31:07,125 --> 01:31:08,125
you know, you can go ahead.

765
01:31:08,375 --> 01:31:10,166
And I was like, okay, I didn't really

766
01:31:10,166 --> 01:31:13,416
think that much about it. But I was next

767
01:31:13,416 --> 01:31:14,916
in line. And then I was like, I looked

768
01:31:14,916 --> 01:31:17,791
behind and everybody had like their saris

769
01:31:17,791 --> 01:31:19,708
and dupatas on their noses.

770
01:31:20,041 --> 01:31:27,125
I know why I got those three. So I guess

771
01:31:27,125 --> 01:31:29,083
it's like definitely helped me in that

772
01:31:29,083 --> 01:31:32,708
way. But yeah, I think I also like just

773
01:31:32,708 --> 01:31:36,541
had to kind of like the smalls project

774
01:31:36,541 --> 01:31:39,958
that like I initiated and I had to do it.

775
01:31:41,041 --> 01:31:44,458
So I think I kind of just shut out like

776
01:31:44,458 --> 01:31:48,000
the emotional side of me in a way. And

777
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:50,291
yeah, just like sampled.

778
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:56,125
So so after you finish, so when you're

779
01:31:56,125 --> 01:31:58,625
out there, so so you've been out there

780
01:31:58,625 --> 01:32:00,541
for three years or so, you said then.

781
01:32:01,625 --> 01:32:05,208
So what at that point, why did you decide

782
01:32:05,208 --> 01:32:06,000
it was time to leave?

783
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:14,125
So I think like I so even when I was

784
01:32:14,125 --> 01:32:17,833
doing it, I wasn't really like I was it.

785
01:32:18,333 --> 01:32:20,291
I was still learning on the job.

786
01:32:21,791 --> 01:32:24,166
And like today I realize the importance

787
01:32:24,166 --> 01:32:28,000
of like the landing surveys and like the

788
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:30,666
work that I kind of did. But when I was

789
01:32:30,666 --> 01:32:32,750
doing it, I had no clue

790
01:32:32,750 --> 01:32:34,041
because I was still learning.

791
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:38,958
And so I saw after that, like I

792
01:32:38,958 --> 01:32:43,041
definitely wanted to like kind of work

793
01:32:43,041 --> 01:32:47,250
with the communities over there. But I

794
01:32:47,250 --> 01:32:50,291
also wanted to be in a space where I was

795
01:32:50,291 --> 01:32:55,083
growing and I was learning a lot more

796
01:32:55,083 --> 01:32:57,416
because there was not a lot of like I

797
01:32:57,416 --> 01:32:59,833
felt like I had kind of reached like a

798
01:32:59,833 --> 01:33:01,791
saturation over there.

799
01:33:02,416 --> 01:33:07,208
So which is why I kind of did I pick up

800
01:33:07,208 --> 01:33:11,250
this job option in Bangalore actually,

801
01:33:11,250 --> 01:33:13,333
because that's where WCS was based.

802
01:33:14,291 --> 01:33:16,458
And that's also where a lot of the

803
01:33:16,458 --> 01:33:19,208
wildlife organizations are based. So

804
01:33:19,208 --> 01:33:21,333
there is a lot of that lot more exposure

805
01:33:21,333 --> 01:33:24,166
to just wildlife science.

806
01:33:26,458 --> 01:33:31,000
And soon after I kind of got this PhD

807
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:36,791
opportunity. So which is why I jumped.

808
01:33:37,458 --> 01:33:39,375
Yeah. So the next step is how did you get

809
01:33:39,375 --> 01:33:41,291
from India or the Adam and I was in

810
01:33:41,291 --> 01:33:43,208
India. Now you're over in Canada.

811
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:50,041
Go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead. So there was

812
01:33:50,041 --> 01:33:54,166
this. So because I was my supervisor, he

813
01:33:54,166 --> 01:33:58,125
and her McNeil. Yes. OK. So he had this

814
01:33:58,125 --> 01:34:01,958
global. He's he's a P.I. on this project,

815
01:34:02,500 --> 01:34:04,000
global shock me to project.

816
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:07,500
And they were probably looking for

817
01:34:07,500 --> 01:34:12,625
somebody in India and Rima suggested me.

818
01:34:13,583 --> 01:34:17,250
So I am a post supervised by Rima and

819
01:34:17,250 --> 01:34:21,750
Aaron. OK. OK. So I was

820
01:34:21,750 --> 01:34:22,750
kind of curious to people.

821
01:34:23,041 --> 01:34:25,291
So the next question I got to ask you,

822
01:34:25,291 --> 01:34:27,208
because as someone who I went overseas,

823
01:34:27,208 --> 01:34:29,458
did my PhD, how has it been to

824
01:34:29,458 --> 01:34:31,875
transitioning going to a whole new

825
01:34:31,875 --> 01:34:33,875
country to to do a PhD?

826
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:40,708
Oh, so many emotions. It's been if it's

827
01:34:40,708 --> 01:34:44,041
definitely been like incredible so far on

828
01:34:44,041 --> 01:34:45,750
like different levels,

829
01:34:46,750 --> 01:34:50,458
just because of like it was.

830
01:34:51,041 --> 01:34:54,916
So as a kid, I've always like dreamt of

831
01:34:54,916 --> 01:35:00,291
seeing and being near snow. So I know

832
01:35:00,291 --> 01:35:02,875
like every Canadian probably like hates

833
01:35:02,875 --> 01:35:07,541
this. But I think when I came here, it

834
01:35:07,541 --> 01:35:09,000
was also in the middle of covid.

835
01:35:09,125 --> 01:35:13,916
So even my journey here was so innovative

836
01:35:13,916 --> 01:35:16,458
was terrible because like the situation

837
01:35:16,458 --> 01:35:19,708
in India, the covid was was not great.

838
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:24,750
And I had like about my PhD got spawned

839
01:35:24,750 --> 01:35:26,875
for like a year or a year and a half

840
01:35:26,875 --> 01:35:28,000
because of visa issues, things.

841
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:34,125
But also because of travel, because of

842
01:35:34,125 --> 01:35:39,166
covid, I had to come through Egypt. So I

843
01:35:39,166 --> 01:35:44,291
got to visit the pyramids at a time when

844
01:35:44,291 --> 01:35:48,375
there was nobody over there. And then

845
01:35:48,375 --> 01:35:51,291
coming here like it was. So I came here

846
01:35:51,291 --> 01:35:52,666
finally in September. So

847
01:35:52,666 --> 01:35:54,708
that was my first fall season.

848
01:35:55,541 --> 01:35:59,958
And and I've only always like have never

849
01:35:59,958 --> 01:36:03,333
been in a place where like it had like

850
01:36:03,333 --> 01:36:04,875
the fall season and like seeing the

851
01:36:04,875 --> 01:36:06,333
colors change. But I'd seen that and

852
01:36:06,333 --> 01:36:08,625
things and I could completely understand

853
01:36:08,625 --> 01:36:09,791
what the hype was about.

854
01:36:11,041 --> 01:36:14,500
And he has a lot of like first

855
01:36:14,500 --> 01:36:17,500
experiences that like seeing snow, and

856
01:36:17,500 --> 01:36:21,000
seeing. But also like in terms of

857
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:23,500
research, like it was a completely

858
01:36:23,500 --> 01:36:26,583
different exposure. Like, of course, I

859
01:36:26,583 --> 01:36:28,916
had cultural shock and things. But I

860
01:36:28,916 --> 01:36:32,416
think like even in terms of research,

861
01:36:33,083 --> 01:36:36,291
like I like it was a very steep learning

862
01:36:36,291 --> 01:36:38,000
curve for me for sure.

863
01:36:38,500 --> 01:36:40,375
Was your English. I mean, you speak very

864
01:36:40,375 --> 01:36:41,791
good English. Was your English pretty

865
01:36:41,791 --> 01:36:45,208
good when you came to Canada? Yeah. So it

866
01:36:45,208 --> 01:36:47,458
was. But I definitely think I had an

867
01:36:47,458 --> 01:36:50,458
Indian accent, a stronger Indian accent,

868
01:36:50,666 --> 01:36:54,958
maybe. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

869
01:36:54,958 --> 01:36:56,708
you definitely speak very good English

870
01:36:56,708 --> 01:36:59,125
way better than Android. I speak Indian.

871
01:36:59,500 --> 01:37:02,458
So 100 percent. So we're pretty much good

872
01:37:02,458 --> 01:37:04,500
there. So how long have

873
01:37:04,500 --> 01:37:06,000
you been now at Dalhousie?

874
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:12,000
So I started in 2021. Oh, wow. So I'm I'm

875
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:15,958
actually I just submitted my last chapter

876
01:37:15,958 --> 01:37:18,583
last week. Oh, congratulations.

877
01:37:19,666 --> 01:37:21,583
Congratulations. So you'll be doctor

878
01:37:21,583 --> 01:37:24,333
really soon. So soon, hopefully.

879
01:37:25,250 --> 01:37:28,000
Hopefully. Yeah. That's true. Yes. Yeah.

880
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:29,416
So that was your last chapter that you

881
01:37:29,416 --> 01:37:34,166
just submitted. And can you just share a

882
01:37:34,166 --> 01:37:35,000
little what your chapters were about?

883
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:40,958
Yeah. So so I so I had an incredible

884
01:37:40,958 --> 01:37:44,583
opportunity of like kind of taking what I

885
01:37:44,583 --> 01:37:48,166
had kind of done in the andaments to

886
01:37:48,166 --> 01:37:53,416
India as a whole because I I I had the

887
01:37:53,416 --> 01:37:56,000
opportunity to visit a lot of planning

888
01:37:56,000 --> 01:37:58,666
sites and trading sites along the both

889
01:37:58,666 --> 01:38:04,000
the East Coast and West Coast. So I. So for me, like I said, I was a little bit more of a

890
01:38:04,041 --> 01:38:04,291
a little bit more of a

891
01:38:04,291 --> 01:38:06,958
you know, a lot of people. So for me, like it was I

892
01:38:06,958 --> 01:38:08,500
like it just really fast.

893
01:38:08,791 --> 01:38:12,000
Like the scale and the diversity of how

894
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:15,541
different all the land sites are and how

895
01:38:15,541 --> 01:38:17,291
different like even just the demand

896
01:38:17,291 --> 01:38:20,875
supply and like that, even as the species

897
01:38:20,875 --> 01:38:22,833
are was really fascinating.

898
01:38:28,041 --> 01:38:31,958
So I always like I have two chapters that

899
01:38:31,958 --> 01:38:36,000
like I have published. So one of them was

900
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:40,208
just looking so I I grew up like I used

901
01:38:40,208 --> 01:38:43,500
to spend my summers on a place called

902
01:38:43,500 --> 01:38:45,500
Kiehime on the west coast of India.

903
01:38:46,125 --> 01:38:48,000
And I'd always heard like

904
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:49,750
we would swim to this island.

905
01:38:50,583 --> 01:38:52,458
And that was a little away.

906
01:38:52,875 --> 01:38:54,750
I'm really bad at distances.

907
01:38:56,125 --> 01:38:58,500
But these two, it was called Kanthiri.

908
01:38:59,791 --> 01:39:06,208
And after-- when I started

909
01:39:06,208 --> 01:39:08,125
working on Elasmobranchs,

910
01:39:09,500 --> 01:39:11,083
I realized that it was

911
01:39:11,083 --> 01:39:13,125
actually a sawfish temple.

912
01:39:13,750 --> 01:39:15,875
So I visited-- I got an

913
01:39:15,875 --> 01:39:17,083
opportunity to visit that.

914
01:39:17,791 --> 01:39:22,041
And I realized that it's an island.

915
01:39:22,791 --> 01:39:24,875
And they had a deity

916
01:39:24,875 --> 01:39:26,500
called Bethel over there.

917
01:39:26,916 --> 01:39:28,875
But that temple had sawfish

918
01:39:28,875 --> 01:39:32,541
rostra all over the temple.

919
01:39:33,958 --> 01:39:39,375
And the fish rostra also had

920
01:39:39,375 --> 01:39:40,708
things like their boat number--

921
01:39:41,000 --> 01:39:43,458
the fish's boat numbers, and the names,

922
01:39:43,541 --> 01:39:45,291
and a lot of information that was there.

923
01:39:45,958 --> 01:39:48,250
So the officials used to offer this to

924
01:39:48,250 --> 01:39:53,583
the deity to protect them during the

925
01:39:53,583 --> 01:39:55,458
harsh weather and seas.

926
01:39:57,333 --> 01:40:03,541
And so I kind of wanted to like-- it's

927
01:40:03,541 --> 01:40:04,416
very different like

928
01:40:04,416 --> 01:40:05,750
seeing something like that,

929
01:40:05,750 --> 01:40:06,583
and especially when

930
01:40:06,583 --> 01:40:07,708
it's so close to home.

931
01:40:08,625 --> 01:40:09,541
And then like kind of

932
01:40:09,541 --> 01:40:12,125
writing that in an academic way.

933
01:40:12,791 --> 01:40:15,791
And through that, like I found that even

934
01:40:15,791 --> 01:40:19,000
the university that I did my undergrad in

935
01:40:19,208 --> 01:40:22,541
had a huge collection of sawfish rostra.

936
01:40:23,625 --> 01:40:27,041
And so through that, like I had a study

937
01:40:27,041 --> 01:40:28,333
on just looking at the past

938
01:40:28,333 --> 01:40:32,333
and present sawfish in India.

939
01:40:33,625 --> 01:40:35,083
And we found that

940
01:40:35,083 --> 01:40:36,708
like sawfish are still--

941
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:41,541
so there is a sawfish are protected in

942
01:40:41,541 --> 01:40:44,000
the Indian Wildlife Protection Law.

943
01:40:44,708 --> 01:40:46,708
And especially in Maharashtra, there is

944
01:40:46,708 --> 01:40:48,791
an initiative by the

945
01:40:48,791 --> 01:40:51,166
government to release them live.

946
01:40:53,041 --> 01:40:59,166
So but we also found that on the east

947
01:40:59,166 --> 01:41:01,083
coast, like especially in West Bengal,

948
01:41:03,375 --> 01:41:05,583
there were a lot more strandings that

949
01:41:05,583 --> 01:41:08,000
were a lot more recent also happening,

950
01:41:08,541 --> 01:41:10,458
which kind of is-- and that just kind of

951
01:41:10,458 --> 01:41:13,666
gave us an idea of like even how the

952
01:41:13,666 --> 01:41:17,708
distribution and the species shifts,

953
01:41:18,625 --> 01:41:21,208
and that the current use of sawfish.

954
01:41:21,416 --> 01:41:25,333
But it was a really fascinating to kind

955
01:41:25,333 --> 01:41:26,916
of just go through that process to just

956
01:41:26,916 --> 01:41:29,208
find out about sawfish,

957
01:41:29,208 --> 01:41:30,791
because I don't think there was a lot.

958
01:41:30,791 --> 01:41:31,000
Yeah.

959
01:41:32,500 --> 01:41:36,500
And another chapter aside, I also learned

960
01:41:36,500 --> 01:41:38,583
a lot of skills during my PhDs.

961
01:41:38,583 --> 01:41:39,500
I am like working a

962
01:41:39,500 --> 01:41:40,916
lot on Bayesian stats.

963
01:41:41,458 --> 01:41:45,458
So from like being terrified of maths and

964
01:41:45,458 --> 01:41:47,333
doing like real badly in school,

965
01:41:48,416 --> 01:41:50,541
I-- that's why I kind of like went into

966
01:41:50,541 --> 01:41:51,916
this field really lively.

967
01:41:52,875 --> 01:41:56,625
But I kind of learned like the skill of

968
01:41:56,625 --> 01:42:02,500
academic writing and just Bayesian stats.

969
01:42:02,500 --> 01:42:05,333
So what's your expected graduation date?

970
01:42:05,583 --> 01:42:06,083
Do you know yet?

971
01:42:07,375 --> 01:42:10,000
So I'm hoping in July or September.

972
01:42:10,583 --> 01:42:11,041
Oh, cool.

973
01:42:11,500 --> 01:42:12,041
Oh, nice.

974
01:42:12,041 --> 01:42:13,875
I'm hoping to defend then.

975
01:42:14,166 --> 01:42:14,375
Yeah.

976
01:42:14,708 --> 01:42:17,250
And so you got this thing coming up with

977
01:42:17,250 --> 01:42:18,416
the Sharks International,

978
01:42:18,875 --> 01:42:20,416
given one of the keynote there.

979
01:42:20,416 --> 01:42:21,416
How do you feel about that?

980
01:42:23,916 --> 01:42:25,916
Um, really, like it's such

981
01:42:25,916 --> 01:42:27,166
an incredible opportunity.

982
01:42:27,375 --> 01:42:30,416
So like really excited on one end.

983
01:42:30,958 --> 01:42:35,875
But another aspect is I'm yeah, I think

984
01:42:35,875 --> 01:42:37,666
I've got like in post-it syndrome.

985
01:42:41,750 --> 01:42:44,166
So I'm like hoping just to I'm just

986
01:42:44,166 --> 01:42:46,666
focusing on like enjoying the conference

987
01:42:47,458 --> 01:42:51,208
and connecting with everyone really.

988
01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:54,625
And spending time and enjoying Sri Lanka.

989
01:42:55,541 --> 01:42:55,750
Yeah.

990
01:42:56,000 --> 01:42:56,208
Yes.

991
01:42:56,250 --> 01:42:57,583
Have you been to Sri Lanka before?

992
01:42:58,166 --> 01:42:59,250
I haven't.

993
01:42:59,250 --> 01:42:59,833
Oh, wow.

994
01:43:00,041 --> 01:43:02,375
So be a for being right there.

995
01:43:02,541 --> 01:43:02,750
Yeah.

996
01:43:03,250 --> 01:43:04,250
Just being right there in India and you

997
01:43:04,250 --> 01:43:05,625
had hadn't been over to Sri Lanka.

998
01:43:05,875 --> 01:43:06,708
I'll be that'll be a

999
01:43:06,708 --> 01:43:07,750
nice adventure for you.

1000
01:43:07,750 --> 01:43:09,375
And I assume you're stopping and see the

1001
01:43:09,375 --> 01:43:10,583
family too while you're over there.

1002
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:11,916
Yes, I am.

1003
01:43:12,333 --> 01:43:12,750
Okay.

1004
01:43:12,750 --> 01:43:13,416
Well, that's good.

1005
01:43:13,416 --> 01:43:13,666
Yeah.

1006
01:43:14,208 --> 01:43:14,416
Yeah.

1007
01:43:14,541 --> 01:43:16,875
And I'm definitely like, considering that

1008
01:43:16,875 --> 01:43:17,666
I've like finally

1009
01:43:17,666 --> 01:43:19,958
finished my PhD and like

1010
01:43:19,958 --> 01:43:21,500
I'm not still done, but

1011
01:43:21,500 --> 01:43:23,458
like finish my jackals.

1012
01:43:23,458 --> 01:43:24,666
Definitely like on the

1013
01:43:24,666 --> 01:43:26,791
daytime and celebrate that.

1014
01:43:26,791 --> 01:43:28,750
Or so where do you see

1015
01:43:28,750 --> 01:43:30,333
your career going from here?

1016
01:43:30,333 --> 01:43:32,583
You get you after you finish your PhD,

1017
01:43:32,583 --> 01:43:33,833
where do you what are your plans?

1018
01:43:35,833 --> 01:43:38,208
Um, that is an excellent question.

1019
01:43:38,541 --> 01:43:44,083
And honestly, it's been, um, so I feel

1020
01:43:44,083 --> 01:43:46,166
like I have wanted to be

1021
01:43:46,166 --> 01:43:47,750
a marine biologist since

1022
01:43:47,750 --> 01:43:49,750
I've been a kid and doing

1023
01:43:49,750 --> 01:43:51,875
a PhD has been my dream.

1024
01:43:53,458 --> 01:43:55,541
And now that I'm at the

1025
01:43:55,541 --> 01:43:58,166
stage, I have no clue.

1026
01:43:58,458 --> 01:43:59,000
No clue.

1027
01:43:59,000 --> 01:43:59,333
That's good.

1028
01:44:00,500 --> 01:44:01,291
Typical marine biologist.

1029
01:44:01,708 --> 01:44:02,666
Yeah, sounds about right.

1030
01:44:03,041 --> 01:44:03,250
Yeah.

1031
01:44:03,291 --> 01:44:03,500
Yeah.

1032
01:44:03,791 --> 01:44:04,958
They don't really tell you what to do

1033
01:44:04,958 --> 01:44:06,125
after you finish your degrees.

1034
01:44:06,625 --> 01:44:08,291
Yeah. So that's good.

1035
01:44:08,666 --> 01:44:11,666
Yeah, I'm just gonna have, um, like I've

1036
01:44:11,666 --> 01:44:15,583
tried to like, uh, really pick up on, uh,

1037
01:44:15,583 --> 01:44:18,000
all the skills that I've, uh, kind of

1038
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:19,875
learned in my PhD and

1039
01:44:19,875 --> 01:44:21,916
before that I'm pretty open.

1040
01:44:22,375 --> 01:44:24,833
And I'm just gonna be, uh, yeah.

1041
01:44:25,166 --> 01:44:26,583
See where it happens.

1042
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:27,458
Okay.

1043
01:44:28,625 --> 01:44:29,666
Well, that's, that's good.

1044
01:44:29,666 --> 01:44:31,333
Did you think you'd go back to India or

1045
01:44:31,333 --> 01:44:33,958
just going to see where career takes you?

1046
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:35,750
Um, yeah, probably see

1047
01:44:35,750 --> 01:44:36,958
where my career takes.

1048
01:44:36,958 --> 01:44:38,916
And so I'm definitely going to like, I

1049
01:44:38,916 --> 01:44:40,333
still collaborate with,

1050
01:44:40,333 --> 01:44:43,375
uh, uh, the undergrad, uh,

1051
01:44:43,375 --> 01:44:44,791
course that I was in.

1052
01:44:45,625 --> 01:44:48,375
And so I definitely, uh, will continue to

1053
01:44:48,375 --> 01:44:51,000
collaborate with, uh, people in India.

1054
01:44:51,291 --> 01:44:51,500
Yeah.

1055
01:44:53,125 --> 01:44:54,875
Well, that's, that's, that's

1056
01:44:54,875 --> 01:44:56,333
really great to hear your story.

1057
01:44:56,333 --> 01:44:56,666
So yeah.

1058
01:44:56,916 --> 01:44:58,958
And congratulations on your given the

1059
01:44:58,958 --> 01:45:00,375
keynote there and congratulations.

1060
01:45:00,583 --> 01:45:01,583
I finished your PhD.

1061
01:45:02,333 --> 01:45:02,541
Yeah.

1062
01:45:02,583 --> 01:45:03,291
That's a biggie.

1063
01:45:03,458 --> 01:45:04,708
That's a biggie.

1064
01:45:05,125 --> 01:45:07,125
And, uh, uh, well anyway, we'll look

1065
01:45:07,125 --> 01:45:08,708
forward to that so early in your career.

1066
01:45:08,708 --> 01:45:09,791
And I will look forward to having you on

1067
01:45:09,791 --> 01:45:11,000
again in the future and you

1068
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:12,541
can update us on what you're

1069
01:45:12,541 --> 01:45:13,916
doing and where you're at.

1070
01:45:14,125 --> 01:45:16,083
And so, and now you've been on the show.

1071
01:45:16,083 --> 01:45:16,500
It'd be great.

1072
01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:17,625
You'll know, you know,

1073
01:45:17,625 --> 01:45:18,583
the routine next time.

1074
01:45:18,916 --> 01:45:20,166
So, uh, yeah, thanks

1075
01:45:20,166 --> 01:45:21,583
so much for having me.

1076
01:45:21,583 --> 01:45:24,291
Like, of course, talking to both of you.

1077
01:45:24,958 --> 01:45:25,583
Yeah, of course.

1078
01:45:25,583 --> 01:45:27,375
And, and good luck with your keynote.

1079
01:45:27,625 --> 01:45:28,333
It's going to be great.

1080
01:45:28,541 --> 01:45:29,916
You definitely deserve to be there.

1081
01:45:30,541 --> 01:45:31,375
And I can't wait for

1082
01:45:31,375 --> 01:45:32,541
everybody else to hear your story.

1083
01:45:32,541 --> 01:45:33,958
So it's going to be, uh, it's going to be

1084
01:45:33,958 --> 01:45:35,666
a wonderful opportunity for you.

1085
01:45:36,208 --> 01:45:37,125
Thank you so much.

1086
01:45:37,500 --> 01:45:39,333
Thank you, Zoya for joining us on today's

1087
01:45:39,333 --> 01:45:41,000
episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

1088
01:45:41,291 --> 01:45:43,625
It was phenomenal to hear like, like

1089
01:45:43,625 --> 01:45:45,416
Dave, for me, you know, as, as, as

1090
01:45:45,416 --> 01:45:46,375
someone who lives in Canada,

1091
01:45:47,041 --> 01:45:49,583
we have the privilege of having a lot of,

1092
01:45:49,583 --> 01:45:50,708
of Indian immigrants

1093
01:45:50,708 --> 01:45:52,333
who have come over to live

1094
01:45:52,333 --> 01:45:54,166
their life in Canada and, you know, I'm

1095
01:45:54,166 --> 01:45:55,625
learning the landscape of

1096
01:45:55,625 --> 01:45:56,666
India that people are telling

1097
01:45:56,666 --> 01:45:57,541
me where they're from.

1098
01:45:57,541 --> 01:46:00,041
And so it's, it's kind of cool to learn

1099
01:46:00,041 --> 01:46:01,833
about the different parts of India.

1100
01:46:01,916 --> 01:46:03,625
Zoya is from Mumbai and

1101
01:46:03,625 --> 01:46:05,041
in the west part of India.

1102
01:46:05,208 --> 01:46:06,416
I know a lot of people who are on the

1103
01:46:06,416 --> 01:46:07,833
east coast of, of, of India.

1104
01:46:08,208 --> 01:46:10,083
And then we go to the Adam and islands,

1105
01:46:10,666 --> 01:46:11,708
which is, you know, I didn't

1106
01:46:11,708 --> 01:46:13,041
even know was part of India.

1107
01:46:13,041 --> 01:46:14,541
It looks like it's just at the tail end

1108
01:46:14,541 --> 01:46:17,375
or the northern part of Indonesia, just

1109
01:46:17,375 --> 01:46:20,291
to the west of Myanmar and Thailand.

1110
01:46:20,958 --> 01:46:23,208
Very interesting area because it's

1111
01:46:23,208 --> 01:46:24,083
essentially is the South

1112
01:46:24,083 --> 01:46:25,333
East, uh, Southeast Pacific.

1113
01:46:25,916 --> 01:46:28,083
Uh, and so you're getting a lot of the

1114
01:46:28,083 --> 01:46:30,250
diversity in that area, right?

1115
01:46:30,875 --> 01:46:33,458
Of animals, of reefs and, and, and of

1116
01:46:33,458 --> 01:46:35,333
course sharks along with that.

1117
01:46:35,333 --> 01:46:38,166
So I, I, I do find that interesting to

1118
01:46:38,166 --> 01:46:39,791
learn that landscape and to,

1119
01:46:39,791 --> 01:46:40,875
and to hear about the stories

1120
01:46:40,875 --> 01:46:41,791
that are coming out of there.

1121
01:46:41,791 --> 01:46:42,083
That's Oya.

1122
01:46:42,708 --> 01:46:43,041
Yeah.

1123
01:46:43,041 --> 01:46:43,333
It was quite a

1124
01:46:43,333 --> 01:46:44,708
fascinating area of the world.

1125
01:46:44,708 --> 01:46:46,291
It's like now after talking to him, I'm

1126
01:46:46,291 --> 01:46:48,208
kind of inspired to want

1127
01:46:48,208 --> 01:46:49,291
to go check it out myself.

1128
01:46:49,541 --> 01:46:51,041
It's just seemed really, really

1129
01:46:51,041 --> 01:46:52,416
fascinating just to go check.

1130
01:46:52,416 --> 01:46:53,791
Even the wild, even the trusted wildlife

1131
01:46:53,791 --> 01:46:55,125
would be fascinating to go see.

1132
01:46:55,708 --> 01:46:57,625
And, um, um, you know, I'm trying to

1133
01:46:57,625 --> 01:46:58,750
figure out how did I get there?

1134
01:46:58,750 --> 01:47:00,375
If I want to go check it out and see, and

1135
01:47:00,375 --> 01:47:01,000
of course, you're

1136
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:02,125
going to be in the area.

1137
01:47:02,125 --> 01:47:03,500
You're going to be in Sri Lanka soon.

1138
01:47:03,916 --> 01:47:04,750
So you're going to be

1139
01:47:04,750 --> 01:47:06,000
in that general vicinity.

1140
01:47:06,333 --> 01:47:08,625
I say general vicinity, but it's probably

1141
01:47:08,625 --> 01:47:11,625
still a couple thousand miles away, but

1142
01:47:11,625 --> 01:47:14,500
yeah, it's a bit of a ways, but it would

1143
01:47:14,500 --> 01:47:16,833
probably for me in California, it'd

1144
01:47:16,833 --> 01:47:18,333
probably be closer for me to go from

1145
01:47:18,333 --> 01:47:19,250
California to like

1146
01:47:19,250 --> 01:47:20,375
Hong Kong or Singapore.

1147
01:47:20,875 --> 01:47:21,000
Right.

1148
01:47:21,125 --> 01:47:22,875
And then the versus going the other way

1149
01:47:22,875 --> 01:47:25,125
to India, unless I had to fly through

1150
01:47:25,125 --> 01:47:26,916
India to get there, but I would only go

1151
01:47:26,916 --> 01:47:28,166
if someone like Zoya

1152
01:47:28,166 --> 01:47:29,000
was going to be there.

1153
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:30,916
Cause I wouldn't know what I was doing.

1154
01:47:30,916 --> 01:47:32,250
I wouldn't speak the language and I'd

1155
01:47:32,250 --> 01:47:34,208
just be right in my time, but it'd be fun

1156
01:47:34,208 --> 01:47:35,916
to be fun to go on an expedition to kind

1157
01:47:35,916 --> 01:47:38,083
of like explore, do some exploring there.

1158
01:47:38,333 --> 01:47:39,916
Might be another lost shark,

1159
01:47:39,916 --> 01:47:42,250
a lost shark expedition, Dave.

1160
01:47:42,250 --> 01:47:42,750
I don't know.

1161
01:47:42,750 --> 01:47:45,000
It sounds like you have, you have, maybe

1162
01:47:45,000 --> 01:47:47,458
Zoya will have a, have a chance to go to

1163
01:47:47,458 --> 01:47:48,416
take you there and

1164
01:47:48,416 --> 01:47:49,625
show you the landscape.

1165
01:47:49,916 --> 01:47:52,041
And as she knows some of the lot, a lot

1166
01:47:52,041 --> 01:47:53,333
of the fishers, I'm sure she knows.

1167
01:47:53,791 --> 01:47:55,000
So that'd be quite interesting.

1168
01:47:55,750 --> 01:47:57,458
Speaking of which we did find, I won't go

1169
01:47:57,458 --> 01:47:58,708
into it here, but we did find it.

1170
01:47:58,708 --> 01:47:58,916
I did.

1171
01:47:59,291 --> 01:47:59,708
We did.

1172
01:47:59,916 --> 01:48:00,666
Some Indian colleagues

1173
01:48:00,666 --> 01:48:01,750
got a lost shark there.

1174
01:48:02,000 --> 01:48:02,375
They weren't sure what

1175
01:48:02,375 --> 01:48:03,791
it was and identified it.

1176
01:48:04,291 --> 01:48:06,458
And it was quite a range extension from

1177
01:48:06,458 --> 01:48:07,541
this thing was only

1178
01:48:07,541 --> 01:48:09,000
known from Japan and Taiwan.

1179
01:48:09,000 --> 01:48:10,791
And it turned up in the Adam and islands.

1180
01:48:11,208 --> 01:48:11,708
Wow.

1181
01:48:12,083 --> 01:48:12,291
Okay.

1182
01:48:13,916 --> 01:48:16,500
Yeah, that's a very big range extension.

1183
01:48:16,750 --> 01:48:16,875
Yeah.

1184
01:48:16,875 --> 01:48:18,500
The velvet velvet dogfish.

1185
01:48:19,833 --> 01:48:20,125
Yeah.

1186
01:48:20,625 --> 01:48:22,416
Sim the Don Nick, a high really rare.

1187
01:48:22,416 --> 01:48:25,208
And in fact, I know I guess it was oil

1188
01:48:25,208 --> 01:48:27,666
show, but just quickly I was there.

1189
01:48:27,666 --> 01:48:29,541
I was, I was, I was at the sharks

1190
01:48:29,541 --> 01:48:31,125
international in 2018.

1191
01:48:31,375 --> 01:48:32,000
Here we are.

1192
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:32,458
International.

1193
01:48:32,875 --> 01:48:33,541
There you go.

1194
01:48:34,083 --> 01:48:35,583
And, and the, my Indian

1195
01:48:35,583 --> 01:48:36,833
friends were given it.

1196
01:48:36,833 --> 01:48:38,458
One of them was given a talk and they

1197
01:48:38,458 --> 01:48:39,666
flashed up the shark and he

1198
01:48:39,666 --> 01:48:40,875
had a name for him looking.

1199
01:48:40,875 --> 01:48:42,875
I go like, no, that's not right.

1200
01:48:43,541 --> 01:48:44,333
And I went up and told him

1201
01:48:44,333 --> 01:48:45,958
afterwards and what it was.

1202
01:48:45,958 --> 01:48:46,916
And he checked it out

1203
01:48:46,916 --> 01:48:47,708
and did ran the genetics.

1204
01:48:47,750 --> 01:48:49,000
And it turned out I was right.

1205
01:48:49,291 --> 01:48:49,916
And we ended up

1206
01:48:49,916 --> 01:48:51,666
collaborating, authoring a paper on it.

1207
01:48:51,791 --> 01:48:52,000
Yeah.

1208
01:48:52,250 --> 01:48:53,125
This is what happens

1209
01:48:53,125 --> 01:48:54,375
when you're at a conference.

1210
01:48:54,375 --> 01:48:55,541
You just never know.

1211
01:48:55,541 --> 01:48:56,541
And this is that sharks international.

1212
01:48:56,916 --> 01:48:57,250
That's awesome.

1213
01:48:57,500 --> 01:48:57,666
Yeah.

1214
01:48:57,708 --> 01:49:00,083
So I'm looking forward to seeing those

1215
01:49:00,083 --> 01:49:01,083
seen by Indian

1216
01:49:01,083 --> 01:49:03,666
colleagues, make me enjoy in person.

1217
01:49:03,666 --> 01:49:05,000
So looking forward to that and hear some

1218
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:06,500
more, uh, law shark stories.

1219
01:49:06,500 --> 01:49:07,750
So, uh, absolutely.

1220
01:49:08,083 --> 01:49:08,333
Yeah.

1221
01:49:08,333 --> 01:49:09,000
So you asked me if I knew

1222
01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:10,000
about the Adam and islands.

1223
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:11,125
I, yeah, I kind of, you didn't know

1224
01:49:11,125 --> 01:49:11,875
about, yeah, you did

1225
01:49:11,875 --> 01:49:12,750
know about the Adam and I,

1226
01:49:12,750 --> 01:49:13,750
but you haven't been there.

1227
01:49:13,750 --> 01:49:15,083
And I think it'd be cool for you to go

1228
01:49:15,083 --> 01:49:16,208
and for us to see the

1229
01:49:16,208 --> 01:49:17,500
landscape in a, in a law shark.

1230
01:49:17,791 --> 01:49:19,583
Extinct or alive, uh, episode, I think

1231
01:49:19,583 --> 01:49:21,000
that'd be a lot of fun.

1232
01:49:21,000 --> 01:49:22,083
But you know what one of the things that

1233
01:49:22,083 --> 01:49:23,416
we mentioned at the beginning before the

1234
01:49:23,416 --> 01:49:25,250
interview, you mentioned that I did

1235
01:49:25,250 --> 01:49:26,750
mention how, you know, how

1236
01:49:26,750 --> 01:49:28,500
I did make a comment about,

1237
01:49:28,958 --> 01:49:29,625
Hey, like you're out

1238
01:49:29,625 --> 01:49:31,125
there studying coral reefs.

1239
01:49:31,125 --> 01:49:32,166
She mentioned an interview

1240
01:49:32,166 --> 01:49:33,750
or working on coral reefs.

1241
01:49:34,250 --> 01:49:35,666
And then you go and you, you start going

1242
01:49:35,666 --> 01:49:37,375
to the fish markets or, you know,

1243
01:49:37,541 --> 01:49:38,750
the fish landing sites.

1244
01:49:38,750 --> 01:49:39,916
Not even the fish markets and fish

1245
01:49:39,916 --> 01:49:41,416
landing sites where

1246
01:49:41,416 --> 01:49:42,500
you're going into a bit of

1247
01:49:42,500 --> 01:49:43,666
a messier situation.

1248
01:49:43,750 --> 01:49:46,541
You know, it's not as pleasant as scuba

1249
01:49:46,541 --> 01:49:47,500
diving on a coral reef,

1250
01:49:47,500 --> 01:49:49,416
and maybe doing some fish counts and

1251
01:49:49,416 --> 01:49:50,333
maybe doing some health

1252
01:49:50,333 --> 01:49:52,166
checks on some reefs, you know,

1253
01:49:52,958 --> 01:49:55,708
and you're going into these landing sites

1254
01:49:55,708 --> 01:49:56,916
where it's essentially dead

1255
01:49:56,916 --> 01:49:59,208
fish and dead sharks. Dave,

1256
01:49:59,208 --> 01:50:01,500
you have a lot of experience in that, you

1257
01:50:01,500 --> 01:50:02,875
know, how long does it

1258
01:50:02,875 --> 01:50:04,333
take you to get used to that?

1259
01:50:06,500 --> 01:50:08,416
I just kind of, I got into it pretty

1260
01:50:08,416 --> 01:50:09,500
quickly because I started

1261
01:50:09,500 --> 01:50:10,875
out doing that. I didn't start,

1262
01:50:11,333 --> 01:50:12,666
I laughed because I didn't start out

1263
01:50:12,666 --> 01:50:14,500
doing coral reefs. It's always, if you

1264
01:50:14,500 --> 01:50:15,208
start out doing coral

1265
01:50:15,291 --> 01:50:17,541
reefs, maybe it's different. It's a lot

1266
01:50:17,541 --> 01:50:18,416
harder to go from the

1267
01:50:18,416 --> 01:50:19,708
coral reefs to the stinky fish

1268
01:50:19,708 --> 01:50:21,166
markets. But if you start in the stinky

1269
01:50:21,166 --> 01:50:22,625
fish markets, everything's

1270
01:50:22,625 --> 01:50:25,291
uphill for there. So true.

1271
01:50:25,625 --> 01:50:26,833
Yeah. I mean, some of the places they,

1272
01:50:26,833 --> 01:50:29,041
I've tried to fill in other shows, like

1273
01:50:29,041 --> 01:50:31,125
some, the smell can be

1274
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:33,666
conditions can be pretty overwhelming at

1275
01:50:33,666 --> 01:50:34,875
times if you're not used to

1276
01:50:34,875 --> 01:50:37,125
it. And even if you are used

1277
01:50:37,125 --> 01:50:38,750
to it, it can still be pretty

1278
01:50:38,750 --> 01:50:41,458
overwhelming. And, but you just, you just

1279
01:50:41,458 --> 01:50:43,041
get used, you get used to it.

1280
01:50:43,208 --> 01:50:45,083
And sometimes you can adjust quicker than

1281
01:50:45,083 --> 01:50:46,791
others. And there's a

1282
01:50:46,791 --> 01:50:48,125
lot of other factors too,

1283
01:50:48,125 --> 01:50:50,500
but yeah, this, the smells, something

1284
01:50:50,500 --> 01:50:51,625
that'll that can really

1285
01:50:51,625 --> 01:50:53,375
cause problems sometimes.

1286
01:50:53,583 --> 01:50:55,000
You just got to go. I'm sure. Especially

1287
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:55,833
if you can be diving a

1288
01:50:55,833 --> 01:50:58,458
coral reefs. So yes. Yes.

1289
01:50:58,958 --> 01:51:02,208
Absolutely. Well, this has been, this has

1290
01:51:02,208 --> 01:51:03,375
been amazing. Zoya, we

1291
01:51:03,375 --> 01:51:04,750
want to thank you so much for

1292
01:51:05,208 --> 01:51:07,750
spending some time and we tried to just a

1293
01:51:07,750 --> 01:51:09,000
little behind the scenes.

1294
01:51:09,416 --> 01:51:10,791
We tried to interview her a

1295
01:51:10,791 --> 01:51:13,166
couple of times. One time I fell through

1296
01:51:13,166 --> 01:51:15,000
one time, her power went

1297
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:15,833
out and then unfortunately,

1298
01:51:16,166 --> 01:51:18,416
she wasn't feeling well. Now we're here

1299
01:51:18,416 --> 01:51:19,208
finally. And it was

1300
01:51:19,208 --> 01:51:21,125
definitely worth the wait to have her

1301
01:51:21,125 --> 01:51:22,958
on the podcast. So congratulations on

1302
01:51:22,958 --> 01:51:25,041
being the keynote. Enjoy sharks

1303
01:51:25,041 --> 01:51:26,958
international, as I'm sure

1304
01:51:26,958 --> 01:51:28,416
you will. And I'm sure a lot of people

1305
01:51:28,416 --> 01:51:29,458
are going to enjoy hearing

1306
01:51:29,458 --> 01:51:30,875
your story and getting to know you

1307
01:51:30,875 --> 01:51:32,791
more at the conference. That's going to

1308
01:51:32,791 --> 01:51:34,708
be fun. D I going to put her

1309
01:51:34,708 --> 01:51:36,500
social media down underneath

1310
01:51:36,750 --> 01:51:38,750
here in the comments or in the

1311
01:51:38,750 --> 01:51:40,500
description. So if you have any questions

1312
01:51:40,500 --> 01:51:43,041
or comments, please feel free

1313
01:51:43,208 --> 01:51:44,750
to put in the comments if you're watching

1314
01:51:44,750 --> 01:51:46,208
this on YouTube and Dave,

1315
01:51:46,208 --> 01:51:47,375
people want to get to know you

1316
01:51:47,375 --> 01:51:50,083
and see more of your creations and your

1317
01:51:50,083 --> 01:51:52,458
work. How would they do that? I go to, I

1318
01:51:52,458 --> 01:51:53,500
have a YouTube channel

1319
01:51:53,500 --> 01:51:56,125
at LaSharkGuy and Andrew and I have been

1320
01:51:56,125 --> 01:51:57,500
producing a documentary

1321
01:51:57,500 --> 01:51:59,083
series called Extinct or Alive.

1322
01:51:59,833 --> 01:52:01,541
I'm actually searching for LaShark's

1323
01:52:01,541 --> 01:52:03,833
Extinct or Alive and episode

1324
01:52:03,833 --> 01:52:06,416
five is now posted. So please

1325
01:52:06,416 --> 01:52:07,791
check that out and please consider

1326
01:52:07,791 --> 01:52:09,541
subscribing. And I'm also

1327
01:52:09,541 --> 01:52:11,375
going to catch me up on Instagram

1328
01:52:11,375 --> 01:52:14,041
saying at LaSharkGuy. Yeah. And of

1329
01:52:14,041 --> 01:52:15,750
course, if you want to get the hold of us

1330
01:52:15,750 --> 01:52:17,500
at the Beyond Jaws podcast,

1331
01:52:17,500 --> 01:52:19,291
you can just go to Instagram at Beyond

1332
01:52:19,291 --> 01:52:20,791
Jaws Pod. And of course, go

1333
01:52:20,791 --> 01:52:21,833
to the Beyond Jaws podcast,

1334
01:52:21,833 --> 01:52:22,958
YouTube channel where you're probably

1335
01:52:22,958 --> 01:52:25,000
watching this and you get to see Zoe

1336
01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:25,916
speak and you get to

1337
01:52:25,916 --> 01:52:26,833
see us speak as well.

1338
01:52:27,458 --> 01:52:29,416
So if you want to get to do that, you can

1339
01:52:29,416 --> 01:52:30,583
just go to our YouTube channel and we

1340
01:52:30,583 --> 01:52:31,458
want to thank you so

1341
01:52:31,458 --> 01:52:32,333
much from Dave and I.

1342
01:52:32,333 --> 01:52:34,375
Thank you so much for joining us on this

1343
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episode of the Beyond Jaws

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podcast. Have a great day.

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We'll talk to you next

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time and happy conservation.