She Built Shark Science Where Almost Nobody Was Looking

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Hey everybody, welcome

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back to another great episode

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of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Today on the podcast,

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we're gonna be focusing

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or interviewing Gofrein Labdiet.

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She is one of the keynote speakers

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at Sharks International 2026.

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It's happening in this

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early May, coming up in 2026.

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And we're excited to have her on

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because we've never had her on before.

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She's such a fun person to interview.

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She works in Cameroon,

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working on the LASMO ranks

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and she's originally from Tunisia.

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So we're gonna get her background.

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We're gonna get her life story

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and we're gonna get her shark

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conservation career story

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on the book.

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So we can't wait to do that.

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So let's start the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back

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to another exciting episode

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of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew and

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your co-host, Andrew Lewin

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here with my co-host, Dr. David Ebert.

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Dave, are you ready to interview Gofrein?

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Oh, absolutely.

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I've seen her name around.

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I've actually met her

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and talked with her before.

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I thought she was a real dynamo.

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I was really happy to see her on here.

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I'm glad we were able to get her on for,

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have her on for the

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interview for this podcast.

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And yeah, it's definitely

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like kind of West Africa,

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Cameroon, that area is not an

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area that's well known at all.

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And so she's one of the people we had.

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We had a Guido Lourz on last year

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who's working North

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of her in West Africa.

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But that's just, West

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Africa is just really

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a largely unknown

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area for sharks and rays.

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So she's really doing some interesting

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kind of exploring type research where

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she's working out there.

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And obviously being a

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young woman, working in an area

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that there's probably not too many women

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working in that working in.

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So it's really excited to have her on.

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And she'll be a spark plug, I'm sure.

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No, absolutely.

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You know, I think it's interesting to see

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more and more young scientists

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and female scientists at that that we've

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been having on the podcast

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that are going out and into

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areas where, like you said,

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shark research hasn't

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really been established yet,

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or even just knowing what types of sharks

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are there, we just haven't seen.

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And so we're like, they're going to be

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pioneers in these countries to say,

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"Hey, you know, this is

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what we've discovered.

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"Girlfriend made this network of

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connections throughout Cameroon,

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"working with the government, you know,

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as easy as that may be,

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"or as hard as that

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might be, as she mentioned,

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"as she's going to

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mention in the interview."

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You know, it's going to be interesting to

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see where this progresses.

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It has to start somewhere

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and starting with Girlfriend

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and the network of people and fishers

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that she's dealing with.

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So I think it's going to be a really

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interesting episode.

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So why don't we get into

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that interview with Girlfriend.

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Enjoy, and we'll talk to you after.

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Hey, Girlfriend, welcome

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to the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about sharks?

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Yes.

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All right.

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Well, welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast

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where we have another

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amazing guest who'll

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be one of the keynote speakers at the

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Sharks International this year in May.

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Andrew and I have been featuring several

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of the keynote speakers who

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have not been on the podcast

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over the last several weeks.

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And we have another tremendous guest.

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We have girlfriend, Labiette, who's

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originally from Indonesia.

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Almost said Indonesia, but she's from

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Tunisia, but she's

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now working in Cameroon.

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Girlfriend is an aquatic biologist and

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ocean conservationist whose passion

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for marine life began on the shores of

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Montsterat, Tunisia, which had to look up

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on a map because it's a beautiful city in

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the Mediterranean just

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across the straits of Sicily

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from the island of Sicily.

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Girlfriend started her career as a

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volunteer monitoring sea

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turtles and experience that

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contributed to the establishment of the

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Kuret Islands Marine Protected Area,

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which inspired her lifelong

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dedication to ocean conservation.

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From 2019 to 2024, she worked with the

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African Marine Conservation

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Organization, AMCO, in Cameroon,

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focusing on the

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conservation of sharks and rays.

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In 2022, she became the shark and ray

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program manager,

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leading fish market surveys,

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socio-economic studies with fish

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communities, also volunteer

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training and policy advocacy.

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She translated scientific research into

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reports and policy briefs

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to guide decision-making and

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secure funding for

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conservation initiatives.

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In 2023, she helped create a network of

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researchers and organizations working on

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sharks and rays across

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western central Africa with her friends

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at the Manitrust Guy Stevens Group,

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bridging gaps with research skills and

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policy across the region.

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In 2024, Girlfriend became a National

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Geographic Explorer.

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In 2025, she became a fellow for both the

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Sustainable Ocean Alliance and the Nature

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Environment Wildlife Filmmaking Program,

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working to combine science and

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storytelling to inspire action.

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Her schooling, she has a Bachelor of

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Science in Marine Biology and Aquaculture

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from the Higher Institute of

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Biotechnology at Ben Sturett,

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Monastart in Tunisia, also an MSC from

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the same university in marine ecology.

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She currently is the start of new

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programs, the lead coordinator for the

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West and Central Africa

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Elasmobrein Coalition for the Manitrust

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and began her new role as

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the regional vice chair for the

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IUCN shark species

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shark specialist group.

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And with all those impressive

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achievements, she has a lot more she'll

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tell us about today.

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With that, welcome to the show, Gophraim.

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Thank you so much. Thank you for all you

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have been saying about me.

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Yeah, all of those hats, I'm wearing all

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the different hats. It's

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for the sharks and rays.

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And yeah, thank you for also inviting me

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today. It's such a

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pleasure to be with you.

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And yeah, let me know what you what you

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want to know about all

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you have been introducing.

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Yeah. Well, we want to know everything

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about you, but let's start off with how

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you got interested in the marine

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environment on sharks.

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And how did you how did you get

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interested? Actually, I have a funny

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story because every time I want to do

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something, the universe shifts me to one

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other thing changes the path for me.

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Because first, when I got my

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baccalaureate when I was about to start

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university, I wanted to study genetics.

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And I went to another city in Tunisia, a

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coastal city by the sea. I was studying

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genetics by that time, like the diseases

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that we can have related to our parents,

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the like those kind of diseases.

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And I was leaving just two minutes far

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from the sea. I remember I I wasn't able

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to swim more than two

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meters depth by that time.

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And the sea was just next to the house.

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So I was always going to to to test

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myself if I can go far, if I can see

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more. And I got myself a mask.

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And I slowly, slowly, I found out that

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the ocean is more than we thought it is.

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It's more than summertime. It's more than

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you swim and you don't see what's below.

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You just like we use it to swim and we

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don't see what's going on and the water.

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And I really got fascinated and slowly,

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slowly, I heard about an association next

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and the same city I was in.

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It's called Notre Grand Bleu, our big

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blue in French. And I started

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volunteering with them. They were

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volunteering. They were like working on

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an isolated island, a remote island, no

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habitants there to save sea turtles.

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That this island was a stable site for

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notification for sea turtles. And I was

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spending almost like all of the summer

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there and an isolated island, no

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electricity, no running water, just

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waiting for the sea turtle to come out

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from the sea and to wait for for it to

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like to prepare her nest.

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And lay the eggs and then market. And by

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then I felt really alive. I felt that I'm

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leaving an impact, changing something in

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the world. I'm not just existing,

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sleeping and eating and that's it.

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And I went to mom one day and I said,

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mom, I'm going to change my studies and

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I'm going to stop genetics and I'm going

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to start marine biology. Everyone was

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upset at me and I cried so much. Yeah. I

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cried so much that night because it was

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like a big decision that I was

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about like to make in my life.

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And I felt like I'm giving up on a dream

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and I'm starting the unknown because I

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was following my heart. I wasn't

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following my mind. I was following

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something that I love suddenly something

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that I discovered suddenly. And yeah,

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that's how I got to the marine biology.

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And I never regretted

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that decision. Never.

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Good. How was it though? Like, you know,

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after your parents didn't like your

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family didn't like it, you still have to

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push through to like, that's what you

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wanted to do. So what was that process

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like? Like, how did you how did you get

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through that? Because we've had guests on

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here before where marine biology wasn't

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their first path. And so to push through

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that and where families not really

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agreeing to it, how

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did you just continue on?

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It demands a lot of time. They like my

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family is mom for me. I don't have a big

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family. It's mom and it's like more than

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enough. She wasn't she wasn't

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understanding what's going on first. She

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01:10:08,958 --> 01:10:14,583
was seeing me as if I'm lost. And I'm

277
01:10:14,583 --> 01:10:15,750
like doing something

278
01:10:15,750 --> 01:10:17,250
that she cannot understand.

279
01:10:17,291 --> 01:10:20,041
Like, why are you stopping something you

280
01:10:20,041 --> 01:10:22,833
wanted to you left of in your city to go

281
01:10:22,833 --> 01:10:24,833
to another city and to study genetics?

282
01:10:25,458 --> 01:10:28,333
And now you are like, like changing your

283
01:10:28,333 --> 01:10:31,916
mind. But quickly, mom, she was she was

284
01:10:31,916 --> 01:10:36,250
like, I, I use it always to let mom be

285
01:10:36,250 --> 01:10:38,000
with me even in the zoom meetings.

286
01:10:38,291 --> 01:10:41,375
If I'm if when I was going to Cameroon,

287
01:10:41,375 --> 01:10:43,833
for example, like now I'm I work in

288
01:10:43,833 --> 01:10:46,791
Cameroon, the first few meetings that I

289
01:10:46,791 --> 01:10:49,541
was starting the preparation for my

290
01:10:49,541 --> 01:10:52,083
internship in Cameroon, mom, she was with

291
01:10:52,083 --> 01:10:54,833
me like she was just listening and seeing

292
01:10:54,833 --> 01:10:57,250
how how the preparation is going on.

293
01:10:57,250 --> 01:10:59,833
I'm a unique child, by the way, she

294
01:10:59,833 --> 01:11:02,875
doesn't have like other other like

295
01:11:02,875 --> 01:11:07,000
children except me. So that was so hard

296
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:13,958
for her to see her unique kid is like, is

297
01:11:13,958 --> 01:11:17,583
going is going from like a field to

298
01:11:17,583 --> 01:11:19,958
another field and starting a

299
01:11:19,958 --> 01:11:21,916
new career in another country.

300
01:11:22,250 --> 01:11:24,708
And it's not a common country Cameroon.

301
01:11:24,708 --> 01:11:26,791
It's not the Europe. It's not the

302
01:11:26,791 --> 01:11:30,250
Maldives. So it wasn't easy for her. But

303
01:11:30,250 --> 01:11:33,333
she she was like, she was following

304
01:11:33,333 --> 01:11:37,750
following me. And I think that the the

305
01:11:37,750 --> 01:11:41,416
fact that I was making her inside of

306
01:11:41,416 --> 01:11:45,166
everything goes going on, like made her

307
01:11:45,166 --> 01:11:50,250
more more like accepting what's going on

308
01:11:50,250 --> 01:11:52,250
because she was she was like,

309
01:11:52,291 --> 01:11:56,166
inside all the behind the scenes. So she

310
01:11:56,166 --> 01:11:59,250
she she knew everything. Yeah. And for

311
01:11:59,250 --> 01:12:04,083
example, also during my my master's

312
01:12:04,083 --> 01:12:06,833
degree when I was like presenting my my

313
01:12:06,833 --> 01:12:08,833
thesis and everything, she was present

314
01:12:08,833 --> 01:12:13,916
and she was hearing the the like my my

315
01:12:13,916 --> 01:12:16,708
professors, how they they were impressed

316
01:12:16,708 --> 01:12:18,166
by my work and everything.

317
01:12:18,291 --> 01:12:21,583
So she was so she was so proud. And also

318
01:12:21,583 --> 01:12:24,291
that there was another thing that

319
01:12:24,291 --> 01:12:28,375
happened. I went on TV in Tunisia because

320
01:12:28,375 --> 01:12:32,208
that was funny. That just happened. It

321
01:12:32,208 --> 01:12:36,875
like I went on TV because in 2021, I was

322
01:12:36,875 --> 01:12:43,083
in Cameroon and the the like the the cup,

323
01:12:43,291 --> 01:12:46,583
which is like the it's the football game

324
01:12:46,583 --> 01:12:47,250
in in Africa, like the

325
01:12:47,250 --> 01:12:51,458
in all Africa. And they found out that I

326
01:12:51,458 --> 01:12:54,583
was the only Tunisian person who was

327
01:12:54,583 --> 01:12:57,625
leaving in that city in Cameroon. And

328
01:12:57,625 --> 01:13:01,416
they made like a short film about me. And

329
01:13:01,416 --> 01:13:04,041
that made mom so proud of me like

330
01:13:04,041 --> 01:13:07,125
everyone saw me on the TV like her her

331
01:13:07,125 --> 01:13:09,666
daughter is is in another country doing

332
01:13:09,666 --> 01:13:13,458
an amazing work. So it demands time. And

333
01:13:13,458 --> 01:13:15,625
it wasn't easy because it was so

334
01:13:15,625 --> 01:13:16,250
different. Like I wasn't following her.

335
01:13:16,250 --> 01:13:19,166
Like I wasn't following any other like

336
01:13:19,166 --> 01:13:21,958
any one other steps like I wasn't

337
01:13:21,958 --> 01:13:24,791
following my friend steps or my cousin

338
01:13:24,791 --> 01:13:27,833
steps in the family. I was like the new

339
01:13:27,833 --> 01:13:32,208
example, which is which is not easy at

340
01:13:32,208 --> 01:13:34,333
all. Yeah, for sure.

341
01:13:34,333 --> 01:13:36,708
Because there's not like a lot of people.

342
01:13:37,208 --> 01:13:39,291
There's not really like a lot of Tunisian

343
01:13:39,291 --> 01:13:41,541
marine biologists, at least that I know

344
01:13:41,541 --> 01:13:42,666
of it like in the shark world.

345
01:13:43,625 --> 01:13:48,458
Oh, oh, we have we do have but we get we

346
01:13:48,458 --> 01:13:52,666
we don't like the ones I know they are in

347
01:13:52,666 --> 01:13:55,625
Tunisia. Most of them, they say they

348
01:13:55,625 --> 01:13:58,000
still in Tunisia. Yeah, but in Cameroon,

349
01:13:58,625 --> 01:14:00,666
I'm the only one. Definitely.

350
01:14:02,250 --> 01:14:06,208
No, nobody. Yeah, yeah. I could I could.

351
01:14:06,208 --> 01:14:06,916
Marine Biologists

352
01:14:06,916 --> 01:14:09,916
Tunisian. I'm only the only person.

353
01:14:11,291 --> 01:14:15,125
That's true. Well, well, everybody knows

354
01:14:15,125 --> 01:14:17,041
who to go see then. And you're also doing

355
01:14:17,041 --> 01:14:19,916
sharks, which I know that that part of

356
01:14:19,916 --> 01:14:22,666
the world, there's a very few people that

357
01:14:22,666 --> 01:14:23,958
really ever done sharks in

358
01:14:23,958 --> 01:14:25,250
that part of the world as well.

359
01:14:25,250 --> 01:14:31,916
Now, since you've shown up in Cameroon,

360
01:14:32,500 --> 01:14:33,833
do you have like a following of other

361
01:14:33,833 --> 01:14:36,166
people kind of gotten inspired about the

362
01:14:36,166 --> 01:14:37,375
type of research you're doing

363
01:14:37,375 --> 01:14:40,250
and try to get involved with?

364
01:14:40,250 --> 01:14:44,958
Actually, in Cameroon, I'm trying to get

365
01:14:44,958 --> 01:14:48,583
other locals be involved with in that's

366
01:14:48,583 --> 01:14:53,125
one of my main goals, because it's, it's

367
01:14:53,125 --> 01:14:58,250
not common. And the skills are miss it.

368
01:14:58,291 --> 01:15:01,291
Even when people they want to, they

369
01:15:01,291 --> 01:15:03,791
cannot because, you know, they don't know

370
01:15:03,791 --> 01:15:07,625
the way how to do that. I like the

371
01:15:07,625 --> 01:15:10,833
identification of sharks and rays, how to

372
01:15:10,833 --> 01:15:14,458
collect data. So that's, that's what I'm

373
01:15:14,458 --> 01:15:17,000
I was doing. And that's what

374
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,250
I will keep the doing as well.

375
01:15:19,291 --> 01:15:24,541
I one of one of the people I I trained,

376
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:28,791
she recently got a grant from save our

377
01:15:28,791 --> 01:15:31,875
seas and she will attend the Sharks

378
01:15:31,875 --> 01:15:34,833
International. She's Cameroonian. She's

379
01:15:34,833 --> 01:15:40,500
23 years old. Yeah, that's that's like a

380
01:15:40,500 --> 01:15:43,166
big, a big, huge, like

381
01:15:43,166 --> 01:15:46,166
impact for me. Yeah. Yeah.

382
01:15:46,250 --> 01:15:48,625
Who is it? Can you say her name? Yeah,

383
01:15:48,625 --> 01:15:52,583
she she she called fitra fitra fitra.

384
01:15:52,583 --> 01:15:57,250
Okay, shout out to a bit of podcast. And

385
01:15:57,250 --> 01:16:01,875
yeah, yeah, yeah. She actually in

386
01:16:01,875 --> 01:16:03,333
Cameroon, they speak

387
01:16:03,333 --> 01:16:04,958
French more than English.

388
01:16:06,375 --> 01:16:10,375
Like that. Cameroon is the linguistic. So

389
01:16:10,375 --> 01:16:13,208
they speak both French and English. But

390
01:16:13,208 --> 01:16:17,208
85% of Cameroon, they speak French and

391
01:16:17,208 --> 01:16:19,583
the rest they speak English, because they

392
01:16:19,583 --> 01:16:20,666
were colonized by

393
01:16:20,666 --> 01:16:23,208
English and friends. So, yeah.

394
01:16:24,291 --> 01:16:28,208
And like sometimes the only problem for

395
01:16:28,208 --> 01:16:31,708
the new like the early careers that they

396
01:16:31,708 --> 01:16:35,291
cannot speak English example for her. She

397
01:16:35,291 --> 01:16:37,250
speaks more like French is more

398
01:16:37,250 --> 01:16:39,416
comfortable in French. But I was telling

399
01:16:39,416 --> 01:16:42,166
her that I'm Arabic and my English is not

400
01:16:42,166 --> 01:16:45,416
I'm not native like speaker and it's okay

401
01:16:45,416 --> 01:16:48,416
to make mistakes, but which is not okay

402
01:16:48,416 --> 01:16:49,750
that you will not try.

403
01:16:50,250 --> 01:16:52,583
So I'm pushing her now she can speak

404
01:16:52,583 --> 01:16:54,791
English very well. She can communicate.

405
01:16:55,750 --> 01:16:57,750
Yeah, so the attending the Sharks

406
01:16:57,750 --> 01:17:00,416
International for her will be amazing. So

407
01:17:00,416 --> 01:17:02,916
she will be in the shock. She will be in

408
01:17:02,916 --> 01:17:05,958
the shock and she will like explodes. I

409
01:17:05,958 --> 01:17:07,250
know her. She will do fine.

410
01:17:07,291 --> 01:17:09,666
Well, let's, let's be honest, like, you

411
01:17:09,666 --> 01:17:11,625
know, Dave and I obviously English is our

412
01:17:11,625 --> 01:17:13,083
first language, I speak a little bit of

413
01:17:13,083 --> 01:17:14,958
French because I live in Canada, but, you

414
01:17:14,958 --> 01:17:16,875
know, it would be very difficult for us

415
01:17:16,875 --> 01:17:19,250
to go to a country where English is not

416
01:17:19,250 --> 01:17:20,125
the first language and

417
01:17:20,125 --> 01:17:21,000
to learn that language.

418
01:17:21,291 --> 01:17:23,791
We always I always give respect to people

419
01:17:23,791 --> 01:17:25,666
who that's not like, you know, they

420
01:17:25,666 --> 01:17:26,916
coming from a country where English is

421
01:17:26,916 --> 01:17:28,625
not their first language. They come in

422
01:17:28,625 --> 01:17:30,125
and they speak English to accommodate

423
01:17:30,125 --> 01:17:32,291
everybody else. I always give them props

424
01:17:32,291 --> 01:17:34,166
for that because that's not an easy thing

425
01:17:34,166 --> 01:17:36,125
to do. It's got to be uncomfortable. I

426
01:17:36,125 --> 01:17:37,791
know I feel uncomfortable when I go to a

427
01:17:37,791 --> 01:17:39,416
different country where like if I if it's

428
01:17:39,416 --> 01:17:41,125
Spanish country or Italian, like, you

429
01:17:41,125 --> 01:17:42,500
know, wherever you are, not speaking

430
01:17:42,500 --> 01:17:45,458
local language and you try and it's, you

431
01:17:45,458 --> 01:17:46,250
know, it's not going to be perfect.

432
01:17:46,250 --> 01:17:48,333
But the fact that people are trying is

433
01:17:48,333 --> 01:17:51,333
just amazing and it's difficult to feel

434
01:17:51,333 --> 01:17:53,666
comfortable with that. So the fact that

435
01:17:53,666 --> 01:17:55,541
she gets more and more comfortable by

436
01:17:55,541 --> 01:17:57,708
continue to try and having you to kind of

437
01:17:57,708 --> 01:17:59,375
encourage her to do that. It'll be great

438
01:17:59,375 --> 01:18:01,375
and being a sharks international people

439
01:18:01,375 --> 01:18:02,916
are from all over the world. They're

440
01:18:02,916 --> 01:18:05,166
going to be comfortable with her and let

441
01:18:05,166 --> 01:18:07,541
her try and get the words out. Be

442
01:18:07,541 --> 01:18:08,250
patient. Absolutely.

443
01:18:08,291 --> 01:18:11,416
There'll be plenty of people there that

444
01:18:11,416 --> 01:18:14,958
speak French and yeah, true. I mean, I'd

445
01:18:14,958 --> 01:18:17,416
say I would say probably speak in Arabic

446
01:18:17,416 --> 01:18:18,916
as your first language. You're going to

447
01:18:18,916 --> 01:18:22,541
find fewer Arabic speakers. Yeah, then

448
01:18:22,541 --> 01:18:24,375
you will French speakers there. I know I

449
01:18:24,375 --> 01:18:28,208
know Rima speaks Arabic, I believe and we

450
01:18:28,208 --> 01:18:30,125
never we have we have never been speaking

451
01:18:30,125 --> 01:18:32,958
Arabic. Remember me. We are both.

452
01:18:34,250 --> 01:18:38,500
Yeah, I've I've been in her home

453
01:18:38,500 --> 01:18:41,416
territory there in Dubai and so I've I've

454
01:18:41,416 --> 01:18:43,708
actually seen her speak in Arabic. Oh,

455
01:18:43,708 --> 01:18:47,041
nice. Nice. I think she speaks like four

456
01:18:47,041 --> 01:18:49,875
or five, six languages. Quite a few quite

457
01:18:49,875 --> 01:18:53,125
a few languages there. Anyway, I know

458
01:18:53,125 --> 01:18:54,791
there's she won't have any problem.

459
01:18:54,791 --> 01:18:56,291
There'd be enough people speaking French

460
01:18:56,291 --> 01:18:59,208
to to to get by and to speak.

461
01:18:59,291 --> 01:19:02,041
You know, you're obviously speaks some

462
01:19:02,041 --> 01:19:04,416
English Arabic and you also speak French

463
01:19:04,416 --> 01:19:06,875
pretty well. Yeah, yeah. Three languages.

464
01:19:07,416 --> 01:19:09,541
Yeah, yeah. Three languages. That's yeah,

465
01:19:09,541 --> 01:19:11,416
that's three more and I speak. So that's

466
01:19:11,416 --> 01:19:15,166
pretty good. You you you speak you you

467
01:19:15,166 --> 01:19:16,750
speak any other languages than the

468
01:19:16,750 --> 01:19:20,250
English. You said French and go and date.

469
01:19:21,041 --> 01:19:23,541
I I speak a little bit of French. I grew

470
01:19:23,541 --> 01:19:25,375
up my my mom's from Quebec City, which is

471
01:19:25,375 --> 01:19:27,125
a friend of province here here in Canada.

472
01:19:27,375 --> 01:19:29,583
So I I went to French school when I was a

473
01:19:29,583 --> 01:19:32,083
kid all French school. But I lost a lot

474
01:19:32,083 --> 01:19:33,625
of vocabulary. But if I go back to

475
01:19:33,625 --> 01:19:35,708
Quebec, like I went back to Montreal not

476
01:19:35,708 --> 01:19:38,083
long ago and I was able to I was able to

477
01:19:38,083 --> 01:19:39,416
get around. Let's just say the more I

478
01:19:39,416 --> 01:19:42,166
speak it the the more vocabulary, right?

479
01:19:42,166 --> 01:19:43,208
It's like trying to figure out. Yeah,

480
01:19:43,208 --> 01:19:44,250
it's all about practice. Yeah.

481
01:19:44,250 --> 01:19:47,333
Yeah. But when I when I was growing up, I

482
01:19:47,333 --> 01:19:48,875
used to work in the fields picking crops

483
01:19:48,875 --> 01:19:50,666
and most of you know, a lot of the people

484
01:19:50,666 --> 01:19:52,125
out there are Spanish speaking. So I

485
01:19:52,125 --> 01:19:53,791
learned how to curse really well in

486
01:19:53,791 --> 01:19:56,541
Spanish at one time, which is it's it's

487
01:19:56,541 --> 01:19:58,958
funny. But most people in a lot outside

488
01:19:58,958 --> 01:20:00,625
say an academic circle most languages

489
01:20:00,625 --> 01:20:03,000
whenever I had exposure to people

490
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:04,500
different. Yeah, you learn the curse

491
01:20:04,500 --> 01:20:07,375
words first right away. You know, it's

492
01:20:07,375 --> 01:20:09,166
funny. You learn the curse words. You

493
01:20:09,166 --> 01:20:10,708
don't forget the curse word. No, you're

494
01:20:10,708 --> 01:20:12,166
trying to speak. Try to carry on a

495
01:20:12,166 --> 01:20:13,833
conversation without cursing. It's.

496
01:20:14,250 --> 01:20:19,625
Really hard. Yeah, I can imagine. And

497
01:20:19,625 --> 01:20:22,166
that's a universal thing. I've had

498
01:20:22,166 --> 01:20:23,791
exposure in other languages, Chinese,

499
01:20:24,416 --> 01:20:26,833
Portuguese. It's like they always you

500
01:20:26,833 --> 01:20:28,375
always learn a few of the curse words

501
01:20:28,375 --> 01:20:31,083
first. Yeah. For whatever reason, it's

502
01:20:31,083 --> 01:20:32,750
just a universe. My experience is just

503
01:20:32,750 --> 01:20:36,208
like a universal 100%. Yeah, okay. So

504
01:20:36,208 --> 01:20:37,791
it's not just growing up high school. We

505
01:20:37,791 --> 01:20:39,291
had a lot of different people from all

506
01:20:39,291 --> 01:20:41,250
over the room. And as soon as they had,

507
01:20:41,250 --> 01:20:42,333
they knew a language of the

508
01:20:42,333 --> 01:20:43,250
Spanish Mandarin Cantonese.

509
01:20:43,291 --> 01:20:45,916
Like, I knew how to swear in all of

510
01:20:45,916 --> 01:20:48,500
those. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Filipino.

511
01:20:49,291 --> 01:20:50,541
Yeah, those types of things. It was

512
01:20:50,541 --> 01:20:53,458
always really good. I don't feel like

513
01:20:53,458 --> 01:20:58,791
just a day thing. So maybe we'll have an

514
01:20:58,791 --> 01:21:02,125
after the show and go Frank and teach you

515
01:21:02,125 --> 01:21:04,958
some some some curse words in Arabic. So

516
01:21:04,958 --> 01:21:11,291
actually, I'm like, I'm getting more used

517
01:21:11,291 --> 01:21:12,250
to French because I live more in Tampa.

518
01:21:12,250 --> 01:21:15,916
So I speak more French than Arabic. So

519
01:21:15,916 --> 01:21:18,708
but when I got back to Tunisia, I was

520
01:21:18,708 --> 01:21:21,375
like perfect in Arabic yet I was like,

521
01:21:21,375 --> 01:21:25,166
kinda afraid. Oh, maybe I forgot how to

522
01:21:25,166 --> 01:21:27,375
speak Arabic. But no, no, it wasn't the

523
01:21:27,375 --> 01:21:29,125
case. My friends, they were telling me

524
01:21:29,125 --> 01:21:33,166
no, you are fine. You are fine. Yeah.

525
01:21:33,625 --> 01:21:34,833
Well, let me ask you this. When you go

526
01:21:34,833 --> 01:21:36,250
speaking a language, when you go out to

527
01:21:36,250 --> 01:21:37,916
like a lot of the villages and some of

528
01:21:37,916 --> 01:21:39,625
the more remote areas there, do you find

529
01:21:39,625 --> 01:21:42,250
they speak more of a local a local d

530
01:21:42,250 --> 01:21:47,666
dialect than you mean in camera? Yes.

531
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,541
Yeah, it's it's really an interesting

532
01:21:50,541 --> 01:21:54,333
question in Cameroon. They do have more

533
01:21:54,333 --> 01:21:59,291
than 200 local languages. And the accent,

534
01:21:59,291 --> 01:22:03,375
the accent of the French here, it's

535
01:22:03,375 --> 01:22:05,791
totally different than the French I use

536
01:22:05,791 --> 01:22:08,791
it to speak in my country. So when I came

537
01:22:08,791 --> 01:22:12,250
like the first time here, my brain, like

538
01:22:12,916 --> 01:22:15,750
got a little bit confused. First, I was I

539
01:22:15,750 --> 01:22:18,125
was hearing even like new expressions of

540
01:22:18,125 --> 01:22:21,000
of the French language, like they they

541
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:23,791
use other expressions, but now I speak

542
01:22:23,791 --> 01:22:26,875
like them 100%. Like I even use the same

543
01:22:26,875 --> 01:22:28,375
experience. Sometimes they are confused.

544
01:22:28,791 --> 01:22:31,666
Like, are you Cameroonian? I'm like,

545
01:22:31,666 --> 01:22:37,750
almost. Yeah, but yeah, I was I was

546
01:22:37,750 --> 01:22:39,500
almost in all the

547
01:22:39,500 --> 01:22:41,791
coastline of Cameroon. And

548
01:22:43,041 --> 01:22:45,375
the north of the coastline, they speak

549
01:22:45,375 --> 01:22:48,500
English and they speak the PG. The PG is

550
01:22:48,500 --> 01:22:51,541
something extracted from the English when

551
01:22:51,541 --> 01:22:53,458
you when you hear it, you feel like it's

552
01:22:53,458 --> 01:22:55,750
English, but it's not English. It's

553
01:22:55,750 --> 01:22:58,750
another language. It's it sounds so

554
01:22:58,750 --> 01:23:01,500
similar to English, but it's not English.

555
01:23:01,500 --> 01:23:06,291
It's it's so close. And yeah, it was the

556
01:23:06,291 --> 01:23:09,791
hardest thing, like honestly, but the

557
01:23:09,791 --> 01:23:11,208
other the other like

558
01:23:12,666 --> 01:23:14,541
part of the coastline, they do speak

559
01:23:14,541 --> 01:23:19,916
French. And I've never been in a place or

560
01:23:19,916 --> 01:23:22,458
a village where people they couldn't

561
01:23:22,458 --> 01:23:24,541
communicate with me. It's whether French

562
01:23:24,541 --> 01:23:28,083
or English, even though they they still

563
01:23:28,083 --> 01:23:31,250
speak other languages. So I was lucky.

564
01:23:31,666 --> 01:23:33,708
Yeah, I was really lucky. Yeah, they

565
01:23:33,708 --> 01:23:35,875
always speak English or French. So you

566
01:23:35,875 --> 01:23:38,250
can communicate in one way or another.

567
01:23:39,250 --> 01:23:41,375
Okay, yeah, I found like some of these

568
01:23:41,375 --> 01:23:42,916
like, you know, even in South Africa,

569
01:23:42,916 --> 01:23:45,583
there's something like two or three dozen

570
01:23:45,583 --> 01:23:46,916
different languages when you start

571
01:23:46,916 --> 01:23:48,875
bringing in all the tribal languages and

572
01:23:48,875 --> 01:23:51,750
you could really get into. Yeah, you can

573
01:23:51,750 --> 01:23:53,958
really get get lost in all kinds of

574
01:23:53,958 --> 01:23:56,166
usually if is if you use English will

575
01:23:56,166 --> 01:23:57,708
kind of get you around pretty much most

576
01:23:57,708 --> 01:23:59,250
certainly if you're in the city areas of towns, you can do that.

577
01:23:59,250 --> 01:24:02,250
When you get out out there, you can speak

578
01:24:02,250 --> 01:24:04,083
they'll speak a whole host of other

579
01:24:04,083 --> 01:24:06,416
languages. That's why it's kind of kind

580
01:24:06,416 --> 01:24:08,333
of curious when you go out like in

581
01:24:08,333 --> 01:24:11,000
Cameroon, particularly how it is how it

582
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:13,583
is outside trying to communicate with the

583
01:24:13,583 --> 01:24:16,791
people. So, you know, so I got another

584
01:24:16,791 --> 01:24:18,000
question. I have a question for you too.

585
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:19,083
When you go out there, when you go out,

586
01:24:19,083 --> 01:24:20,250
particularly the more remote areas, how

587
01:24:20,250 --> 01:24:22,166
is it being a young woman going out

588
01:24:22,166 --> 01:24:23,958
trying to in the villages and stuff?

589
01:24:24,708 --> 01:24:25,916
That's got to be an interesting

590
01:24:25,916 --> 01:24:29,250
experience for you. Yeah, actually, I think it's a good experience.

591
01:24:29,250 --> 01:24:34,166
Actually, it's not the same for me when I

592
01:24:34,166 --> 01:24:38,250
did it first, like when I did it after a

593
01:24:38,250 --> 01:24:40,625
couple of times, like the first times

594
01:24:40,625 --> 01:24:43,208
were the most tough time for me.

595
01:24:44,291 --> 01:24:48,458
I remember like I the first time I came

596
01:24:48,458 --> 01:24:52,458
here to Cameroon, I was 25 years old. I

597
01:24:52,458 --> 01:24:56,291
and I've never been to the sub-sarian

598
01:24:56,291 --> 01:25:00,666
Africa before that was my first time. And

599
01:25:00,666 --> 01:25:03,583
when I first came here, I was in a

600
01:25:03,583 --> 01:25:06,375
village. I was based in a village in

601
01:25:06,375 --> 01:25:08,500
Cameroon called design gay.

602
01:25:09,666 --> 01:25:13,875
And there was no electricity, no running

603
01:25:13,875 --> 01:25:17,166
water. I was sharing the same room with

604
01:25:17,166 --> 01:25:22,208
other Cameroonians. That was so like

605
01:25:22,208 --> 01:25:27,458
tough for me. Like I just left home. That

606
01:25:27,458 --> 01:25:29,041
was an internship. I wasn't

607
01:25:29,041 --> 01:25:30,916
paid. I was just volunteering.

608
01:25:31,291 --> 01:25:34,291
I was like training the staff to identify

609
01:25:34,291 --> 01:25:36,833
sharks and rays and prospect the

610
01:25:36,833 --> 01:25:40,000
biodiversity and everything. So I was

611
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:43,416
really kind of in the shock. Like it was

612
01:25:43,416 --> 01:25:46,208
a cultural shock. I felt that I'm not

613
01:25:46,208 --> 01:25:49,166
African. I was like, Oh, I'm from Africa

614
01:25:49,166 --> 01:25:51,250
and I'm feeling like this. What about

615
01:25:51,250 --> 01:25:53,583
European people? Like I'm still from

616
01:25:53,583 --> 01:25:56,833
Africa. Why am I feeling like kind of

617
01:25:57,958 --> 01:26:02,291
isolated, you know, and slowly, slowly I

618
01:26:02,291 --> 01:26:06,291
was searching for for like how I can fit

619
01:26:06,291 --> 01:26:10,083
how I can be a different but not an

620
01:26:10,083 --> 01:26:13,333
outsider because these two things are so

621
01:26:13,333 --> 01:26:16,250
different. Like you can be different, but

622
01:26:16,250 --> 01:26:19,500
you can fit in. But being

623
01:26:19,500 --> 01:26:21,250
an outsider is the problem.

624
01:26:21,291 --> 01:26:25,041
You need to find like a way to adapt to

625
01:26:25,041 --> 01:26:28,291
to like get used and everything and

626
01:26:28,291 --> 01:26:31,875
slowly, slowly I found myself I was

627
01:26:31,875 --> 01:26:34,000
searching for the things that I never had

628
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:37,250
in my own country, like the simplicity,

629
01:26:37,875 --> 01:26:41,250
the wildness, how people are so easy to

630
01:26:41,250 --> 01:26:45,166
get with how how they are so welcoming,

631
01:26:45,625 --> 01:26:47,250
so warm and everything.

632
01:26:47,250 --> 01:26:50,875
So, yeah, for a young woman, as you say,

633
01:26:50,875 --> 01:26:53,291
the first time I was in the fish market,

634
01:26:53,833 --> 01:26:55,791
people, they didn't accept me because I

635
01:26:55,791 --> 01:26:59,333
was different. But when they when they

636
01:26:59,333 --> 01:27:04,250
they kept seeing me going back again and

637
01:27:04,250 --> 01:27:08,291
again and being committed and having the

638
01:27:08,291 --> 01:27:11,333
same goal every week, they have been

639
01:27:11,333 --> 01:27:12,250
seeing me every month.

640
01:27:12,291 --> 01:27:14,875
They have been seeing me. They started

641
01:27:14,875 --> 01:27:17,833
calling me my daughter, come my daughter,

642
01:27:18,291 --> 01:27:22,000
come my and that's that's kind of I am an

643
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:24,166
emotional person, by the way, I'm so

644
01:27:24,166 --> 01:27:27,375
emotional and I can cry even in the

645
01:27:27,375 --> 01:27:30,916
team's meeting. I'm like, I cannot, I

646
01:27:30,916 --> 01:27:32,250
cannot hide my emotions.

647
01:27:32,291 --> 01:27:37,291
And this is like, this is a power, not a

648
01:27:37,291 --> 01:27:39,458
weakness because they use it to tell me

649
01:27:39,458 --> 01:27:41,208
that you are weak because you are

650
01:27:41,208 --> 01:27:45,000
emotional, which is not true. The key to

651
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:47,541
get fit inside of Cameroon was because

652
01:27:47,541 --> 01:27:50,500
I'm emotional because the population saw

653
01:27:50,500 --> 01:27:54,333
me emotional and Karen

654
01:27:54,333 --> 01:27:57,250
feelings with me, Karen love with me.

655
01:27:57,250 --> 01:28:02,458
They trusted me. They gave me space to

656
01:28:02,458 --> 01:28:06,375
exist with them. If they saw me only as a

657
01:28:06,375 --> 01:28:09,416
scientist, I'm in the fish market just to

658
01:28:09,416 --> 01:28:12,208
collect data and leave. I would never

659
01:28:12,208 --> 01:28:15,250
keep existing until now. I would maybe

660
01:28:15,250 --> 01:28:19,708
spend two or three years and then I'm

661
01:28:19,708 --> 01:28:20,958
gone, like from Cameroon.

662
01:28:21,250 --> 01:28:24,875
But the thing that really kept me being

663
01:28:24,875 --> 01:28:28,125
here and kept the fishers and the coastal

664
01:28:28,125 --> 01:28:31,541
community to like accept to work with me

665
01:28:31,541 --> 01:28:34,833
and collaborate with me is because I'm

666
01:28:34,833 --> 01:28:38,291
emotional. I'm carrying emotions with

667
01:28:38,291 --> 01:28:40,000
signs at the same time,

668
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:41,250
not just signs with me.

669
01:28:41,291 --> 01:28:45,458
I'm here for a reason and we are all here

670
01:28:45,458 --> 01:28:48,541
for the same reason. So we don't need to

671
01:28:48,541 --> 01:28:51,000
be like, I'm a young woman, I'm

672
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:53,875
different, I'm foreign and I'm not from

673
01:28:53,875 --> 01:28:58,083
the same country, but we have unicity at

674
01:28:58,083 --> 01:29:01,291
the same time. We are all searching for

675
01:29:01,291 --> 01:29:04,000
purposes, why we came to

676
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:05,250
this life, why we exist.

677
01:29:05,291 --> 01:29:09,000
So everyone is searching in his own way.

678
01:29:09,750 --> 01:29:13,000
And that's why I found myself like

679
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:15,708
slowly, slowly, more than a young woman

680
01:29:15,708 --> 01:29:23,166
in a different country. And like, I feel

681
01:29:23,166 --> 01:29:25,791
at home as I was telling you that I'm not

682
01:29:25,791 --> 01:29:28,833
in my own country, but I'm still feeling

683
01:29:28,833 --> 01:29:31,541
at home because we built something

684
01:29:31,541 --> 01:29:33,250
through time, trust and

685
01:29:33,291 --> 01:29:41,416
trust and like, like vision. So that's

686
01:29:41,416 --> 01:29:44,416
why I faced it. I faced all those

687
01:29:44,416 --> 01:29:47,125
challenges of being foreign and being

688
01:29:47,125 --> 01:29:50,625
young and being a woman in in like, in

689
01:29:50,625 --> 01:29:54,583
the fish marketplaces more for men than

690
01:29:54,583 --> 01:29:57,208
women. But in Cameroon is different. You

691
01:29:57,208 --> 01:30:00,000
can find women selling fish more than

692
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:01,291
men. So maybe that's

693
01:30:01,291 --> 01:30:02,250
why I could have exist.

694
01:30:02,250 --> 01:30:06,416
And I could have like, have more trust in

695
01:30:06,416 --> 01:30:11,041
myself and confidence. So yeah, that's

696
01:30:11,041 --> 01:30:15,750
that's how I I got where I am today, even

697
01:30:15,750 --> 01:30:18,416
though it wasn't easy at first.

698
01:30:19,041 --> 01:30:22,375
So now with you're going there and you

699
01:30:22,375 --> 01:30:24,583
got your mainly your focus now on the

700
01:30:24,583 --> 01:30:25,708
sharks and rays. Is that your

701
01:30:25,708 --> 01:30:28,000
main work you're doing there?

702
01:30:29,250 --> 01:30:33,916
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so now you are you

703
01:30:33,916 --> 01:30:35,583
doing this like is this part of through

704
01:30:35,583 --> 01:30:38,791
the man to trust you're doing this.

705
01:30:38,791 --> 01:30:42,583
I can I can I can tell that how the story

706
01:30:42,583 --> 01:30:46,250
how the story went like just a brief.

707
01:30:47,125 --> 01:30:49,000
First, when I came to Cameroon, I was

708
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:51,625
searching for whales, not for sharks and

709
01:30:51,625 --> 01:30:55,250
I wanted to study whales. Oh, cool.

710
01:30:55,291 --> 01:30:59,708
Yeah. And we we don't have resident

711
01:30:59,708 --> 01:31:02,541
whales in Tunisia. They just passed by.

712
01:31:03,166 --> 01:31:07,250
They don't they don't like exist for a

713
01:31:07,250 --> 01:31:09,708
permanent way. So I was searching outside

714
01:31:09,708 --> 01:31:12,250
of my country because I was sure.

715
01:31:12,250 --> 01:31:16,791
And a simple search on Google, I found

716
01:31:16,791 --> 01:31:19,541
out the African marine by the time it was

717
01:31:19,541 --> 01:31:21,583
African marine mammal organization

718
01:31:21,583 --> 01:31:23,708
conservation organization.

719
01:31:23,916 --> 01:31:25,250
I'm cool. I found about them.

720
01:31:25,250 --> 01:31:29,125
And I found about another organization in

721
01:31:29,125 --> 01:31:31,750
Australia and I send my CV and my

722
01:31:31,750 --> 01:31:35,291
motivation letter to go for an internship

723
01:31:35,291 --> 01:31:40,000
and both they like accepted me for an

724
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:42,583
interview. But I didn't reply for the

725
01:31:42,583 --> 01:31:45,500
Australian organization. And I replied

726
01:31:45,500 --> 01:31:46,791
for the Cameroonian. I was

727
01:31:46,791 --> 01:31:48,250
like, let's go slowly, slowly.

728
01:31:48,250 --> 01:31:51,750
I don't want to go so far. Let's go

729
01:31:51,750 --> 01:31:54,416
slowly, slowly. So I went to Cameroon

730
01:31:54,416 --> 01:31:57,625
first for two months as internship for

731
01:31:57,625 --> 01:32:00,166
whales and the marine megafauna as well,

732
01:32:00,458 --> 01:32:03,166
including sharks and rays, sea turtles,

733
01:32:03,583 --> 01:32:06,333
dolphins, whales and everything. It was

734
01:32:06,333 --> 01:32:09,875
in 2019 when I spent two

735
01:32:09,875 --> 01:32:10,250
months as the first time.

736
01:32:10,250 --> 01:32:14,875
All I saw most of the time was sharks and

737
01:32:14,875 --> 01:32:17,791
rays being landed in different sizes,

738
01:32:18,208 --> 01:32:22,041
many species, around 30 species being

739
01:32:22,041 --> 01:32:25,000
like processed in many ways, smoked,

740
01:32:25,416 --> 01:32:28,583
dried, finished everything. And when I

741
01:32:28,583 --> 01:32:30,916
was did the research, I found nothing. No

742
01:32:30,916 --> 01:32:34,791
papers published, no reports, no laws

743
01:32:34,791 --> 01:32:37,250
protecting this species in the country.

744
01:32:37,250 --> 01:32:40,458
So I felt and I didn't see any whale. I

745
01:32:40,458 --> 01:32:43,791
spent around 12 hours in the sea and I

746
01:32:43,791 --> 01:32:46,708
didn't see any whale. So it was like a

747
01:32:46,708 --> 01:32:49,791
message from the universe, like a call

748
01:32:49,791 --> 01:32:53,125
from sharks. It's an urgent call that

749
01:32:53,125 --> 01:32:55,333
that's what you need to do for now. You

750
01:32:55,333 --> 01:32:58,458
have been in Cameroon to to know what's

751
01:32:58,458 --> 01:32:59,833
going on about sharks and rays.

752
01:33:00,250 --> 01:33:03,625
And and then I went back to Tunisia and I

753
01:33:03,625 --> 01:33:05,833
did my master's degree on sharks and rays

754
01:33:05,833 --> 01:33:08,458
on Cameroon. So my master's degree was in

755
01:33:08,458 --> 01:33:12,000
Tunisia, but the topic was on sharks and

756
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:13,458
rays in small scale

757
01:33:13,458 --> 01:33:15,000
fisheries in Cameroon.

758
01:33:15,250 --> 01:33:19,291
And then I got back to Cameroon in 2021

759
01:33:19,291 --> 01:33:22,875
for six months in the northern coastline

760
01:33:22,875 --> 01:33:27,208
to to keep like exploring what's going on

761
01:33:27,208 --> 01:33:29,750
for sharks and rays. By the end of the

762
01:33:29,750 --> 01:33:33,041
six months is we found out about very

763
01:33:33,041 --> 01:33:34,625
rare species of

764
01:33:34,625 --> 01:33:36,250
mobile it raise its mobile.

765
01:33:36,291 --> 01:33:45,500
And we use it to post on iNaturalist and

766
01:33:45,500 --> 01:33:49,708
that's how we were like we have been

767
01:33:49,708 --> 01:33:52,208
contacted by Manta Trust. I don't

768
01:33:52,208 --> 01:33:55,833
remember who contacted us first when he

769
01:33:55,833 --> 01:33:58,333
saw the picture. It was like, oh, this is

770
01:33:58,333 --> 01:34:01,666
a very rare species. If you can keep this

771
01:34:01,666 --> 01:34:03,875
specimen and the

772
01:34:03,875 --> 01:34:05,250
partnership started by then.

773
01:34:05,250 --> 01:34:09,208
And so it was basically someone they were

774
01:34:09,208 --> 01:34:11,708
monitoring iNaturalist to see if there's

775
01:34:11,708 --> 01:34:13,708
anything actually the organization I use

776
01:34:13,708 --> 01:34:16,291
it to work with. We use it to have our

777
01:34:16,291 --> 01:34:18,500
own application. It's called siren

778
01:34:18,500 --> 01:34:21,333
application. Fishers is an application.

779
01:34:22,375 --> 01:34:25,333
They take pictures and they send us.

780
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:27,875
That's how we can know what's going on in

781
01:34:27,875 --> 01:34:30,458
the sea. Yeah, that's so it was a picture

782
01:34:30,458 --> 01:34:32,958
from a fisher actually. And we use it to

783
01:34:32,958 --> 01:34:35,250
to to post those applications.

784
01:34:35,250 --> 01:34:44,500
And that's how we yeah that's how we we

785
01:34:44,500 --> 01:34:49,041
got like a message or any mail. I don't

786
01:34:49,041 --> 01:34:51,791
remember very well from Manta Trust team

787
01:34:51,791 --> 01:34:57,041
and in 2022 the Manta Trust team came to

788
01:34:57,041 --> 01:35:00,500
Cameroon to train us on the section and

789
01:35:00,500 --> 01:35:02,458
how to take samples and

790
01:35:02,458 --> 01:35:04,250
how to do the morphometric.

791
01:35:04,250 --> 01:35:13,500
And we wrote a paper on that species on

792
01:35:13,500 --> 01:35:17,833
that specimen that we found and in 2023

793
01:35:17,833 --> 01:35:23,666
we am cool and Manta Trust. They created

794
01:35:23,666 --> 01:35:25,333
the first network in

795
01:35:25,333 --> 01:35:26,583
Western Central Africa.

796
01:35:28,291 --> 01:35:31,083
People who are working on sharks and rays

797
01:35:31,083 --> 01:35:33,166
organizations researchers.

798
01:35:35,250 --> 01:35:38,875
They create like we created that network

799
01:35:38,875 --> 01:35:42,291
in 2023 and we hosted the first workshop

800
01:35:42,291 --> 01:35:45,708
in Cameroon where 12 countries

801
01:35:45,708 --> 01:35:50,125
participants came to Cameroon and we

802
01:35:50,125 --> 01:35:52,625
drafted the first strategy on

803
01:35:52,625 --> 01:35:54,250
sharks and rays in the region.

804
01:35:54,291 --> 01:35:58,958
So that's how and now like for the last

805
01:35:58,958 --> 01:36:01,666
five years I was working for amco

806
01:36:01,666 --> 01:36:03,416
African-American conservation

807
01:36:03,416 --> 01:36:06,875
organization and starting from this year

808
01:36:06,875 --> 01:36:09,375
I'm working for the Manta Trust as a

809
01:36:09,375 --> 01:36:13,833
consultant to coordinate this network

810
01:36:13,833 --> 01:36:16,250
that we created in 2023.

811
01:36:16,291 --> 01:36:22,208
Yeah to enhance research collaboration

812
01:36:22,208 --> 01:36:26,916
and policy in the region. So for now I'm

813
01:36:26,916 --> 01:36:30,666
yeah I'm with Manta Trust. Yeah. Yeah.

814
01:36:30,666 --> 01:36:32,291
That's quite easy. That's a

815
01:36:32,291 --> 01:36:35,000
quite a story. Yeah. Yeah.

816
01:36:37,250 --> 01:36:40,166
Well I mean you know it's we tell people

817
01:36:40,166 --> 01:36:41,875
it's all time and the people listen to

818
01:36:41,875 --> 01:36:44,291
the show is like nobody ever has like a

819
01:36:44,291 --> 01:36:47,250
straight line from like I'm going to do

820
01:36:47,250 --> 01:36:49,208
this and I'm going to go here. It just it

821
01:36:49,208 --> 01:36:50,916
just never goes that way. There's all

822
01:36:50,916 --> 01:36:52,958
this sort of zigzagging.

823
01:36:53,291 --> 01:36:56,708
Yeah. In your case you weren't even

824
01:36:56,708 --> 01:36:58,291
originally you're looking for whales

825
01:36:58,291 --> 01:37:00,208
which you never found the whales and then

826
01:37:00,208 --> 01:37:03,708
you I saw I saw whales in 2024 in

827
01:37:03,708 --> 01:37:06,791
Cameroon that we were in looking we were

828
01:37:06,791 --> 01:37:09,000
we weren't looking for them but we saw

829
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:10,541
them. Yeah. That was funny.

830
01:37:11,291 --> 01:37:13,791
So I was like five years after you first

831
01:37:13,791 --> 01:37:15,791
went there right. Exactly. Yeah I was

832
01:37:15,791 --> 01:37:18,958
like okay. Just a little bit late but

833
01:37:18,958 --> 01:37:22,208
it's okay. Yeah. Just took five years.

834
01:37:22,208 --> 01:37:23,666
Well at least you found them eventually.

835
01:37:23,875 --> 01:37:26,333
That's a good. At least I saw them. Yeah.

836
01:37:26,750 --> 01:37:29,375
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what. So now

837
01:37:29,375 --> 01:37:30,750
as you're doing this you're still you're

838
01:37:30,750 --> 01:37:32,875
going out in your surveying the species

839
01:37:32,875 --> 01:37:34,750
out there and stuff. And so what's sort

840
01:37:34,750 --> 01:37:37,291
of the direction you're looking at for

841
01:37:37,291 --> 01:37:38,375
like with all this this

842
01:37:38,375 --> 01:37:39,250
information you're gathering.

843
01:37:39,291 --> 01:37:41,791
I mean, Cameron's one of those places in

844
01:37:41,791 --> 01:37:43,791
which is most of the countries in West

845
01:37:43,791 --> 01:37:46,083
Africa is it's just like a black hole as

846
01:37:46,083 --> 01:37:48,250
far as knowing what species occur there.

847
01:37:49,166 --> 01:37:52,583
Yeah. Absolutely. So what do you so so

848
01:37:52,583 --> 01:37:54,250
obviously assume you're you're building

849
01:37:54,250 --> 01:37:55,416
up a database of the

850
01:37:55,416 --> 01:37:58,041
species you're seeing there. Yeah.

851
01:37:58,250 --> 01:38:02,083
Yeah. Actually we have been lucky because

852
01:38:02,083 --> 01:38:06,250
you know in in Western Central Africa we

853
01:38:06,250 --> 01:38:09,250
like many things not just one main thing

854
01:38:09,250 --> 01:38:16,541
we like like finance we like skills and

855
01:38:16,541 --> 01:38:20,166
we have been lucky because the the base

856
01:38:20,166 --> 01:38:22,375
data line that we got it

857
01:38:22,375 --> 01:38:24,250
was based on citizen science.

858
01:38:24,250 --> 01:38:26,708
It was based on the siren application I

859
01:38:26,708 --> 01:38:30,083
was telling you about. Right. So we when

860
01:38:30,083 --> 01:38:35,333
I arrived in 2019 I found a database of

861
01:38:35,333 --> 01:38:39,250
almost 5000 observations of sharks and

862
01:38:39,250 --> 01:38:45,291
rates in just like four years I found

863
01:38:45,291 --> 01:38:49,958
like huge database and this database

864
01:38:49,958 --> 01:38:53,250
guided us where to go and what to do.

865
01:38:53,291 --> 01:39:00,125
We knew which fish markets we need to do

866
01:39:00,125 --> 01:39:06,333
the survey in and we knew which are the

867
01:39:06,333 --> 01:39:09,000
species that need more protection than

868
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:14,375
others. So when I came here the first

869
01:39:14,375 --> 01:39:17,416
thing I wanted to implement is the fish

870
01:39:17,416 --> 01:39:20,708
market service in parallel with the

871
01:39:20,708 --> 01:39:22,250
citizen science because citizen science is a very important thing.

872
01:39:22,291 --> 01:39:24,375
So citizen science is a very great tool

873
01:39:24,375 --> 01:39:28,791
but we need in depth data as well. So we

874
01:39:28,791 --> 01:39:30,875
started the fish market service in the

875
01:39:30,875 --> 01:39:33,833
key fish markets where we know that's

876
01:39:33,833 --> 01:39:37,250
that the sharks and rays are being landed

877
01:39:37,250 --> 01:39:41,750
in huge quantities. So that's where we

878
01:39:41,750 --> 01:39:43,916
started the fish markets first.

879
01:39:45,291 --> 01:39:51,333
And what we look for is that who are the

880
01:39:51,333 --> 01:39:55,208
species that are really threatened and at

881
01:39:55,208 --> 01:40:00,250
the same time being landed a lot being

882
01:40:00,250 --> 01:40:03,958
like cold a lot. So that's

883
01:40:03,958 --> 01:40:05,250
what we were looking for.

884
01:40:05,291 --> 01:40:11,291
And also the sizes like we found out that

885
01:40:11,291 --> 01:40:16,041
90 percent of the land are driven nice

886
01:40:16,041 --> 01:40:19,166
guitar fish the plexion guitar fish and

887
01:40:19,166 --> 01:40:20,250
this call up hammerhead.

888
01:40:20,291 --> 01:40:29,083
So like you cannot to draw and it like a

889
01:40:29,083 --> 01:40:32,458
very particular mob and you say oh I will

890
01:40:32,458 --> 01:40:35,291
go to the fish market to find this and to

891
01:40:35,291 --> 01:40:38,375
do this. No you need to go with the flow.

892
01:40:38,791 --> 01:40:40,875
You go to the fish market and

893
01:40:40,875 --> 01:40:43,250
you observe what's going on.

894
01:40:43,250 --> 01:40:46,750
We have this species are being landed the

895
01:40:46,750 --> 01:40:50,416
most and being like threatened the most.

896
01:40:51,291 --> 01:40:54,583
OK. What what can we we know more about

897
01:40:54,583 --> 01:40:57,000
them. Oh they are driven nice. So

898
01:40:57,000 --> 01:41:00,875
probably they're like the fishing areas

899
01:41:00,875 --> 01:41:03,958
are overlapping with nursery areas.

900
01:41:04,291 --> 01:41:06,916
We cannot prove this now but it's

901
01:41:06,916 --> 01:41:10,916
probably the case. So you need it's like

902
01:41:10,916 --> 01:41:14,083
a puzzle and you are collecting the

903
01:41:14,083 --> 01:41:17,958
pieces and you cannot you cannot be sure

904
01:41:17,958 --> 01:41:22,250
100 percent of what you will find. But

905
01:41:22,250 --> 01:41:24,458
you need to keep collecting and keep

906
01:41:24,458 --> 01:41:28,625
observing. And that's how you can have a

907
01:41:28,625 --> 01:41:30,250
macro vision of what's going on.

908
01:41:30,250 --> 01:41:35,125
I think there's a lot of this data like

909
01:41:35,125 --> 01:41:37,333
you're collecting now is this going to be

910
01:41:37,333 --> 01:41:39,666
used you think eventually by policymakers

911
01:41:39,666 --> 01:41:42,250
to develop like a national plan of action

912
01:41:42,250 --> 01:41:46,666
for sharks. Actually yeah it's very

913
01:41:46,666 --> 01:41:52,041
complicated. It's very good. Yeah I spent

914
01:41:52,041 --> 01:41:54,708
five years trying for

915
01:41:54,708 --> 01:41:56,250
like national action plans.

916
01:41:57,666 --> 01:42:00,916
I hope one day it will work but it didn't

917
01:42:00,916 --> 01:42:04,375
work yet. I changed my strategy actually.

918
01:42:04,666 --> 01:42:07,833
I'm working now for fisher with fishers

919
01:42:07,833 --> 01:42:12,250
to protect sharks and it's easier. It's

920
01:42:12,250 --> 01:42:14,583
easier. I found a way as you're working

921
01:42:14,583 --> 01:42:15,916
right with the people who are catching.

922
01:42:16,333 --> 01:42:19,041
Yeah I found the way they are releasing

923
01:42:19,041 --> 01:42:20,541
back the baby sharks

924
01:42:20,541 --> 01:42:22,250
and raise now the fishers.

925
01:42:22,250 --> 01:42:26,208
They are aware the baby sharks and raise

926
01:42:26,208 --> 01:42:30,583
they will not give a very good income if

927
01:42:30,583 --> 01:42:34,375
you will sell them. So it's better to

928
01:42:34,375 --> 01:42:38,000
release them back if the individual is

929
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:40,791
still alive. You release it back. It's

930
01:42:40,791 --> 01:42:46,083
better. And it's a sort of collaboration

931
01:42:46,083 --> 01:42:49,291
more than we are passing

932
01:42:49,291 --> 01:42:50,458
by the fishing community.

933
01:42:51,250 --> 01:42:52,500
And they are collaborating with the

934
01:42:52,500 --> 01:42:55,958
fishing community for it for like the

935
01:42:55,958 --> 01:42:59,666
same vision. You are suffering from this

936
01:42:59,666 --> 01:43:02,500
nowadays situation of the ocean. There is

937
01:43:02,500 --> 01:43:05,625
no more fish. The climate is not the

938
01:43:05,625 --> 01:43:11,541
same. Instead of going once a week you

939
01:43:11,541 --> 01:43:13,583
are going like twice a month.

940
01:43:14,375 --> 01:43:17,125
Why all of this is because that we are

941
01:43:17,125 --> 01:43:20,458
not doing the sustainable practices. One

942
01:43:20,458 --> 01:43:22,666
of the sustainable practices is to

943
01:43:22,666 --> 01:43:24,916
release back sharks and raise and the

944
01:43:24,916 --> 01:43:27,083
fishing community is aware and happy to

945
01:43:27,083 --> 01:43:31,791
help. So I've been like going through

946
01:43:31,791 --> 01:43:34,416
this approach and showing the government.

947
01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:36,708
Look the problem is no more

948
01:43:36,708 --> 01:43:38,541
the problem. It's the solution.

949
01:43:39,875 --> 01:43:44,041
Do what you need to do. The fishing

950
01:43:44,041 --> 01:43:46,333
community is safe and sharks and raise.

951
01:43:46,750 --> 01:43:48,291
What are you waiting to

952
01:43:48,291 --> 01:43:51,000
do. Please start something.

953
01:43:51,291 --> 01:43:55,000
So yeah that's what I want. And at the

954
01:43:55,000 --> 01:43:57,458
same time where I'm working in the south

955
01:43:57,458 --> 01:44:00,666
like so close to me there is the first

956
01:44:00,666 --> 01:44:05,541
marin protected area in Cameroon. But

957
01:44:05,541 --> 01:44:11,208
there is no like management plan yet. So

958
01:44:11,208 --> 01:44:13,583
we are trying to influence the management

959
01:44:13,583 --> 01:44:19,291
plan to be like including the sharks and

960
01:44:19,291 --> 01:44:21,250
raise protection in it.

961
01:44:21,291 --> 01:44:24,166
At the same time including the say like

962
01:44:24,166 --> 01:44:26,875
the live release. So the fishers are

963
01:44:26,875 --> 01:44:30,333
doing this in other areas. It's going to

964
01:44:30,333 --> 01:44:32,875
be amazing if you will include it in the

965
01:44:32,875 --> 01:44:34,958
management plan of the marin protected

966
01:44:34,958 --> 01:44:40,166
area. So you as a scientist you will be

967
01:44:40,166 --> 01:44:41,250
straight to the point.

968
01:44:41,291 --> 01:44:44,125
Oh I have like threatened animal. We need

969
01:44:44,125 --> 01:44:46,250
to protect it. There is no way but I'm

970
01:44:46,250 --> 01:44:50,666
using other like ways I'm navigating to

971
01:44:50,666 --> 01:44:55,416
show like it's like mathematics. You know

972
01:44:55,416 --> 01:44:58,208
like you can you can find the same result

973
01:44:58,208 --> 01:45:00,583
but with different ways. And that's why

974
01:45:00,583 --> 01:45:03,375
that's what I'm doing now. So I'm showing

975
01:45:03,375 --> 01:45:06,958
the government that we have different

976
01:45:06,958 --> 01:45:08,875
ways. And please choose one.

977
01:45:09,458 --> 01:45:12,958
I'm giving you options and just choose

978
01:45:12,958 --> 01:45:16,250
one. Yeah it takes time. It takes time.

979
01:45:16,541 --> 01:45:19,875
Go ahead. Yes. Our quick question here

980
01:45:19,875 --> 01:45:23,125
about all this this process. So you're

981
01:45:23,125 --> 01:45:25,208
working with fishers and you have a great

982
01:45:25,208 --> 01:45:26,333
relate. You're you're building that

983
01:45:26,333 --> 01:45:27,916
relationship and you continue to maintain

984
01:45:27,916 --> 01:45:29,666
that relationship which is nice because

985
01:45:29,666 --> 01:45:31,583
it's on the ground. You're on the ground.

986
01:45:31,833 --> 01:45:33,791
You know you're seeing this firsthand and

987
01:45:33,791 --> 01:45:37,041
they seem to be interested as as many

988
01:45:37,041 --> 01:45:37,875
fishers are around the

989
01:45:37,875 --> 01:45:39,250
world to protecting the

990
01:45:39,291 --> 01:45:41,666
resource right. But then you have the

991
01:45:41,666 --> 01:45:43,583
other side where it's you know you want

992
01:45:43,583 --> 01:45:45,708
to enact it into into policy. So you have

993
01:45:45,708 --> 01:45:48,208
to build this relationship with with

994
01:45:48,208 --> 01:45:51,416
government officials. What's it like you

995
01:45:51,416 --> 01:45:53,416
know I don't have like Dave has way more

996
01:45:53,416 --> 01:45:56,500
experience than I do in in Africa in in

997
01:45:56,500 --> 01:45:58,791
different countries in Africa and working

998
01:45:58,791 --> 01:46:01,000
with people there of all different of all

999
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:03,041
different countries. What's it like

1000
01:46:03,041 --> 01:46:06,166
building that relationship with you know

1001
01:46:06,166 --> 01:46:07,250
people from the government of Cameroon. Is it do you find that you're doing that?

1002
01:46:07,250 --> 01:46:12,333
And did you have experience in doing this

1003
01:46:12,333 --> 01:46:14,250
before so like you just kind of just

1004
01:46:14,250 --> 01:46:15,625
described just sort of that entire

1005
01:46:15,625 --> 01:46:20,541
process. Actually it's it's complicated.

1006
01:46:20,541 --> 01:46:23,166
I will not say it's difficult or easy but

1007
01:46:23,166 --> 01:46:25,666
it's complicated right which is which is

1008
01:46:25,666 --> 01:46:28,250
like logical. Yeah. And it demands a lot of patience. You need to be sweet patients like you. That's why I'm using other ways at the same time.

1009
01:46:37,375 --> 01:46:40,166
If you will if you will only use like

1010
01:46:40,166 --> 01:46:43,166
policy and government and national action

1011
01:46:43,166 --> 01:46:46,000
plans and you will stop doing anything

1012
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:49,250
else you will end up by doing nothing but right the best thing is that you keep knocking the doors of the government and at the same time you do parallelizing.

1013
01:46:57,125 --> 01:47:02,125
So the government will say oh this is

1014
01:47:02,125 --> 01:47:05,708
doable this is this can be realistic

1015
01:47:05,708 --> 01:47:09,791
because you need to translate what you

1016
01:47:09,791 --> 01:47:10,250
your thoughts you you cannot like you need to put yourself in the shoes of others. You cannot expect the same way you are.

1017
01:47:10,416 --> 01:47:14,125
You cannot like you need to put yourself

1018
01:47:14,125 --> 01:47:17,333
in the shoes of others. You cannot expect

1019
01:47:17,333 --> 01:47:20,791
the same way of thinking from government

1020
01:47:20,791 --> 01:47:24,833
like you. Sorry for the word but that

1021
01:47:24,833 --> 01:47:27,208
means I'm stupid if I will I will like

1022
01:47:27,208 --> 01:47:30,916
expect that like I cannot I cannot expect

1023
01:47:30,916 --> 01:47:34,375
that my that the fishers will think the

1024
01:47:34,375 --> 01:47:37,000
same way like me or I will never also

1025
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:38,833
think the same way as fishers.

1026
01:47:39,291 --> 01:47:42,833
So you need always to be empathetic be

1027
01:47:42,833 --> 01:47:46,291
like okay they are being hard here that

1028
01:47:46,291 --> 01:47:49,166
makes sense. Let's see why let's see how

1029
01:47:49,166 --> 01:47:52,041
can we make it easier. Can we make it

1030
01:47:52,041 --> 01:47:55,916
more like smooth. So it's really

1031
01:47:55,916 --> 01:47:58,708
complicated and it needs like sometimes

1032
01:47:58,708 --> 01:48:01,583
they can give you promises.

1033
01:48:02,291 --> 01:48:05,583
They will never tell you no or close the

1034
01:48:05,583 --> 01:48:08,291
doors and that's the thing like first

1035
01:48:08,291 --> 01:48:10,708
time you will meet people from government

1036
01:48:10,708 --> 01:48:12,583
you will be so impressive. They will give

1037
01:48:12,583 --> 01:48:14,916
you all the promises. Yes you will do

1038
01:48:14,916 --> 01:48:18,166
this will do that. And you will go back

1039
01:48:18,166 --> 01:48:21,041
home flying. Oh yeah I've done everything

1040
01:48:21,041 --> 01:48:23,583
and then nothing happened.

1041
01:48:31,291 --> 01:48:33,875
I've been naive. I've been telling my

1042
01:48:33,875 --> 01:48:36,291
boss. Oh no no they told me that they

1043
01:48:36,291 --> 01:48:38,041
will do this. They will do that. And then

1044
01:48:38,041 --> 01:48:44,208
I got it. Yeah I got it. It's not easy.

1045
01:48:44,458 --> 01:48:46,875
It's a whole system even for them. It's

1046
01:48:46,875 --> 01:48:49,875
not easy to integrate such laws inside of

1047
01:48:49,875 --> 01:48:51,958
the system. It's not

1048
01:48:51,958 --> 01:48:53,250
like a click like this.

1049
01:48:53,291 --> 01:48:56,291
It needs like revision and revision and

1050
01:48:56,291 --> 01:48:59,541
revision and revision and it needs to be

1051
01:48:59,541 --> 01:49:03,291
revised by many like different like

1052
01:49:03,291 --> 01:49:07,958
people. So it needs time and patience and

1053
01:49:07,958 --> 01:49:11,083
it needs more approved like you need to

1054
01:49:11,083 --> 01:49:15,250
prove to them. It's it's it can be real.

1055
01:49:15,250 --> 01:49:18,791
So you can do it. The problem the thing

1056
01:49:18,791 --> 01:49:21,458
that you are seeing as a problem is being

1057
01:49:21,458 --> 01:49:24,291
the solution. So please just to change

1058
01:49:24,291 --> 01:49:26,791
something just do something. And one of

1059
01:49:26,791 --> 01:49:30,625
the things I I I really like to do is to

1060
01:49:30,625 --> 01:49:35,916
create a space where the government and

1061
01:49:35,916 --> 01:49:37,250
the fishers can communicate.

1062
01:49:37,250 --> 01:49:41,875
I love this. I really love. Yeah. OK.

1063
01:49:42,375 --> 01:49:45,916
Like you are given orders and they know

1064
01:49:45,916 --> 01:49:49,416
they're like they know what's going on

1065
01:49:49,416 --> 01:49:52,000
more than anyone more than the scientists

1066
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:54,083
more than the government the fishers they

1067
01:49:54,083 --> 01:49:56,208
are always in the sea. They know more

1068
01:49:56,208 --> 01:49:59,333
than anyone. So I give them the space to

1069
01:49:59,333 --> 01:50:02,125
talk talk about what's going on. Let the

1070
01:50:02,125 --> 01:50:04,916
government listen to you. And that's how

1071
01:50:04,916 --> 01:50:07,208
the debate can get like

1072
01:50:07,291 --> 01:50:10,208
interesting and can be fruitful and we

1073
01:50:10,208 --> 01:50:14,041
can co create solutions because I cannot

1074
01:50:14,041 --> 01:50:16,541
create solutions alone. I've seen them

1075
01:50:16,541 --> 01:50:21,375
only from my perspective. It's it won't

1076
01:50:21,375 --> 01:50:25,291
be so impactful. Everyone needs to be in

1077
01:50:25,291 --> 01:50:28,333
the same area and everyone needs to

1078
01:50:28,333 --> 01:50:31,083
decide not just the government not just

1079
01:50:31,083 --> 01:50:33,291
the scientific community not

1080
01:50:33,291 --> 01:50:34,250
just the fishing community.

1081
01:50:34,291 --> 01:50:37,916
Everyone at the same time. So yeah I'm

1082
01:50:37,916 --> 01:50:42,083
like sometimes I sound weird but by the

1083
01:50:42,083 --> 01:50:45,541
end I sound more logical when people like

1084
01:50:45,541 --> 01:50:48,125
they follow me until the end. Yeah that

1085
01:50:48,125 --> 01:50:51,416
makes sense. So yeah that's

1086
01:50:51,416 --> 01:50:53,916
that's what I was trying to do.

1087
01:50:54,291 --> 01:50:58,291
Yeah that that's an amazing story. So I

1088
01:50:58,291 --> 01:50:59,625
just want to keep you too much longer

1089
01:50:59,625 --> 01:51:03,583
here. So that you you've done some

1090
01:51:03,583 --> 01:51:05,166
amazing stuff earlier in your career.

1091
01:51:05,166 --> 01:51:07,541
Where do you see your career going over

1092
01:51:07,541 --> 01:51:12,041
the next five ten twenty years. It's a

1093
01:51:12,041 --> 01:51:14,083
funny question especially for me. I was

1094
01:51:14,083 --> 01:51:16,333
telling you I wanted genetics. I found

1095
01:51:16,333 --> 01:51:18,416
myself in modern biology. I wanted

1096
01:51:18,416 --> 01:51:20,750
whales. I found myself with sharks and

1097
01:51:20,750 --> 01:51:23,083
rays. So maybe I will tell you something

1098
01:51:23,083 --> 01:51:23,250
now. And I'm going to tell you something now.

1099
01:51:23,291 --> 01:51:27,375
But I'm sure that we have it on record.

1100
01:51:27,375 --> 01:51:29,125
We'll have it recorded. So we'll play

1101
01:51:29,125 --> 01:51:30,958
back to you later. Basically no one

1102
01:51:30,958 --> 01:51:35,750
recorded for me before. Yeah. Actually I

1103
01:51:35,750 --> 01:51:38,541
will tell you about my dreams. Then my

1104
01:51:38,541 --> 01:51:42,458
big dream. Then then like where I see

1105
01:51:42,458 --> 01:51:46,000
myself like my big dream is to have a

1106
01:51:46,000 --> 01:51:50,291
small boat a very simple boat that I get.

1107
01:51:50,291 --> 01:51:51,500
I can go around the

1108
01:51:51,500 --> 01:51:53,250
world and I can make a boat.

1109
01:51:53,250 --> 01:51:57,666
I can make the local people to see those

1110
01:51:57,666 --> 01:52:02,916
like very small individuals and snorkel

1111
01:52:02,916 --> 01:52:06,416
as I started love in the ocean. I love

1112
01:52:06,416 --> 01:52:09,416
making people snorkel and seeing the tiny

1113
01:52:09,416 --> 01:52:11,291
very very tiny with the microscope.

1114
01:52:12,250 --> 01:52:15,375
And like the very tiny animals like to

1115
01:52:15,375 --> 01:52:18,333
show people things that we didn't use to

1116
01:52:18,333 --> 01:52:22,583
see. It's easy to see but we didn't know

1117
01:52:22,583 --> 01:52:25,208
how to see. So that's my big dream is to

1118
01:52:25,208 --> 01:52:28,291
have a boat. We travel around the world

1119
01:52:28,291 --> 01:52:32,875
showing this very very simple things to

1120
01:52:32,875 --> 01:52:35,416
local people and then leave.

1121
01:52:35,666 --> 01:52:38,791
This is like my my my my dream.

1122
01:52:39,291 --> 01:52:41,541
Yeah. I love it. I think it's fantastic.

1123
01:52:41,791 --> 01:52:43,791
It's connecting people to the ocean which

1124
01:52:43,791 --> 01:52:46,291
is such an important part. Right. You

1125
01:52:46,291 --> 01:52:49,750
know a lot. I think that the in here in

1126
01:52:49,750 --> 01:52:51,041
North America Dave you probably heard

1127
01:52:51,041 --> 01:52:52,750
this before. It's you know people were

1128
01:52:52,750 --> 01:52:54,291
often referred to like when you try to

1129
01:52:54,291 --> 01:52:56,333
get grounded you touch grass like touch

1130
01:52:56,333 --> 01:52:58,541
nature you get in nature. I always say

1131
01:52:58,541 --> 01:53:00,666
you know you you touch water. You know

1132
01:53:00,666 --> 01:53:02,541
just go out and touch the water. Feel

1133
01:53:02,541 --> 01:53:04,500
grounded. Feel like. And I think that's

1134
01:53:04,500 --> 01:53:07,250
such an important aspect to how people

1135
01:53:07,250 --> 01:53:09,250
need to feel about about the ocean.

1136
01:53:09,291 --> 01:53:11,500
And about nature in general. Because a

1137
01:53:11,500 --> 01:53:13,791
lot of times we feel we're so involved in

1138
01:53:13,791 --> 01:53:16,041
our own lives that we don't get. We don't

1139
01:53:16,041 --> 01:53:17,750
feel that connection to nature and often

1140
01:53:17,750 --> 01:53:20,250
that disconnect can lead towards a lot of

1141
01:53:20,250 --> 01:53:22,916
bad things right. Yeah. Like it's

1142
01:53:22,916 --> 01:53:25,333
sometimes there are things in life that

1143
01:53:25,333 --> 01:53:28,541
are so easy but we we don't have the

1144
01:53:28,541 --> 01:53:31,875
chance to get them. So I would just to

1145
01:53:31,875 --> 01:53:35,833
try to help locals to have this change.

1146
01:53:35,833 --> 01:53:37,500
That's it. It's a simple

1147
01:53:37,500 --> 01:53:39,250
thing. But sometimes we can't.

1148
01:53:39,250 --> 01:53:42,166
And we can never have them. I was really

1149
01:53:42,166 --> 01:53:45,583
lucky to have them like this. And yeah.

1150
01:53:45,916 --> 01:53:51,375
So that's my awesome my my tiny dream. Do

1151
01:53:51,375 --> 01:53:53,958
you think do you think you'll ever use

1152
01:53:53,958 --> 01:53:57,458
genetics and combine that with sharks at

1153
01:53:57,458 --> 01:54:00,041
some point. Absolutely. This is the next

1154
01:54:00,041 --> 01:54:03,083
step. Absolutely. Yeah. Acoustic

1155
01:54:03,083 --> 01:54:06,041
telemetry and genetics. I

1156
01:54:06,041 --> 01:54:08,250
want to start my PhD on that.

1157
01:54:08,250 --> 01:54:12,416
Because I've been saying that I know that

1158
01:54:12,416 --> 01:54:15,291
there are nursery grounds in Kamhoon but

1159
01:54:15,291 --> 01:54:18,375
to confirm them I need more evidence and

1160
01:54:18,375 --> 01:54:20,333
the more evidence is the acoustic

1161
01:54:20,333 --> 01:54:24,583
telemetry and some genetics as well.

1162
01:54:24,958 --> 01:54:28,250
Maybe to to like assess more the

1163
01:54:28,250 --> 01:54:30,041
biodiversity because not

1164
01:54:30,041 --> 01:54:31,250
everything is being landed.

1165
01:54:31,291 --> 01:54:34,458
And all we have been doing is like to

1166
01:54:34,458 --> 01:54:39,041
collect data on the landed species. So I

1167
01:54:39,041 --> 01:54:42,291
want to combine these two things to go

1168
01:54:42,291 --> 01:54:47,291
deeper in what's going on in Kamro. Yeah.

1169
01:54:47,291 --> 01:54:52,166
Very nice. Thank you so much for coming

1170
01:54:52,166 --> 01:54:53,833
on the show. We're going to have you back

1171
01:54:53,833 --> 01:54:55,583
to see how your dream is

1172
01:54:55,583 --> 01:54:56,250
progressing. Absolutely.

1173
01:54:56,291 --> 01:55:00,500
Absolutely. So I hope so. And I'll look

1174
01:55:00,500 --> 01:55:02,625
forward to seeing you here in a month or

1175
01:55:02,625 --> 01:55:04,916
so or a few weeks for the Sharks

1176
01:55:04,916 --> 01:55:08,541
International. And anyway anyway we

1177
01:55:08,541 --> 01:55:09,916
really really enjoyed having you out.

1178
01:55:09,916 --> 01:55:10,791
We'll definitely have you back again

1179
01:55:10,791 --> 01:55:12,875
sometime to get updated on your dream.

1180
01:55:13,500 --> 01:55:15,541
Absolutely. And good luck as the keynote

1181
01:55:15,541 --> 01:55:18,708
for Sharks International. It's the first

1182
01:55:18,708 --> 01:55:22,791
time for me to be a keynote speaker and I

1183
01:55:22,791 --> 01:55:26,166
will tell the story how I got to be a

1184
01:55:26,166 --> 01:55:29,833
keynote speaker in public. I love telling

1185
01:55:29,833 --> 01:55:32,958
stories. I love telling stories. Yeah.

1186
01:55:33,291 --> 01:55:35,083
Yeah. You're great. I love it. I love the

1187
01:55:35,083 --> 01:55:37,250
stories. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

1188
01:55:37,500 --> 01:55:39,416
You definitely you definitely deserve it.

1189
01:55:39,416 --> 01:55:41,000
It is. It's your first time. I'm sure it

1190
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:43,333
won't be the last time with the way you

1191
01:55:43,333 --> 01:55:46,541
are expanding our knowledge on on Sharks

1192
01:55:46,541 --> 01:55:49,791
and Rays and in Kamroon and other places

1193
01:55:49,791 --> 01:55:53,250
and look forward to having you back on

1194
01:55:53,250 --> 01:55:55,250
and talking more about about Sharks.

1195
01:55:55,291 --> 01:55:58,166
Thank you so much for providing such a

1196
01:55:58,166 --> 01:56:02,416
safe spaces for early careers like me to

1197
01:56:02,416 --> 01:56:05,166
talk about the work they are doing the

1198
01:56:05,166 --> 01:56:08,125
dreams they have. They do have it's not

1199
01:56:08,125 --> 01:56:11,666
like very common. And yeah. I'm like the

1200
01:56:11,666 --> 01:56:15,708
more people feel seen and heard the more

1201
01:56:15,708 --> 01:56:17,708
they are confident. So really thank you

1202
01:56:17,708 --> 01:56:20,250
for giving us such a space. Really.

1203
01:56:20,250 --> 01:56:23,125
Thank you for that cover. We love giving

1204
01:56:23,125 --> 01:56:25,750
space. That's what this podcast is for.

1205
01:56:25,750 --> 01:56:27,708
So thank you. Appreciate it. All right.

1206
01:56:27,708 --> 01:56:29,000
We'll talk to you later. Thank you

1207
01:56:29,000 --> 01:56:30,625
girlfriend for joining us on today's

1208
01:56:30,625 --> 01:56:33,458
episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast. Great

1209
01:56:33,458 --> 01:56:35,416
to have you on. I can't wait to hear

1210
01:56:35,416 --> 01:56:38,541
about your keynote speech at Sharks

1211
01:56:38,541 --> 01:56:42,041
International 2026 definitely deserved a

1212
01:56:42,041 --> 01:56:44,500
true pioneer as I've mentioned before the

1213
01:56:44,500 --> 01:56:46,958
interview true pioneer in discovering

1214
01:56:46,958 --> 01:56:48,541
Sharks in Kamroon

1215
01:56:48,541 --> 01:56:49,250
originally from Tunisia.

1216
01:56:49,291 --> 01:56:52,000
Dave and going to camera into a

1217
01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:53,375
completely new country. She even

1218
01:56:53,375 --> 01:56:55,041
mentioned that it feels like home to her

1219
01:56:55,041 --> 01:56:57,625
now more home than when she goes back to

1220
01:56:57,625 --> 01:57:00,000
her original home. And so I think that's

1221
01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:01,291
that's really interesting as David

1222
01:57:01,291 --> 01:57:03,791
someone who's done research in in in

1223
01:57:03,791 --> 01:57:05,125
countries that are pretty far from the

1224
01:57:05,125 --> 01:57:06,416
U.S. or pretty far from your home.

1225
01:57:07,250 --> 01:57:07,833
So you know, I think the question is,

1226
01:57:07,833 --> 01:57:08,958
what's the what are the challenges when

1227
01:57:08,958 --> 01:57:11,166
you first get into a place like this? And

1228
01:57:11,166 --> 01:57:13,333
obviously South Africa is very different

1229
01:57:13,333 --> 01:57:16,750
from from Cameroon in a lot of ways. But

1230
01:57:16,750 --> 01:57:18,666
like what's that like to go into a new

1231
01:57:18,666 --> 01:57:20,916
country and try to establish that network

1232
01:57:20,916 --> 01:57:22,750
of people that will give you information

1233
01:57:22,750 --> 01:57:25,416
from a community of Fisher's and have

1234
01:57:25,416 --> 01:57:26,916
those those types of relationships?

1235
01:57:30,291 --> 01:57:33,000
Yeah, South Africa is a very different

1236
01:57:33,000 --> 01:57:37,750
country than it is today. And it's it's

1237
01:57:37,750 --> 01:57:38,916
literally like being an explorer when

1238
01:57:38,916 --> 01:57:40,458
you're going into some area South Africa

1239
01:57:40,458 --> 01:57:43,125
had a little bit in my case had had some

1240
01:57:43,125 --> 01:57:45,125
shark research done it kind of faded away

1241
01:57:45,125 --> 01:57:45,250
in the seventies. And then we kind of when
I showed up there with Leonard Campan.

1242
01:57:45,291 --> 01:57:46,583
in the 70s and then we kinda,

1243
01:57:47,000 --> 01:57:48,041
when I showed up there

1244
01:57:48,041 --> 01:57:49,041
with Leonard Campania,

1245
01:57:49,041 --> 01:57:50,291
we kinda reinvigorated the

1246
01:57:50,291 --> 01:57:51,916
whole shark research there.

1247
01:57:52,166 --> 01:57:53,791
But people have heard

1248
01:57:53,791 --> 01:57:55,000
me talk in the podcast,

1249
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:56,125
I spent, went to Namibia.

1250
01:57:56,833 --> 01:57:57,625
Nobody had ever done

1251
01:57:57,625 --> 01:57:59,125
anything in Namibia at all.

1252
01:57:59,333 --> 01:58:01,041
It was completely unknown.

1253
01:58:01,875 --> 01:58:03,125
And so that was just like

1254
01:58:03,125 --> 01:58:04,958
literally like an adventure

1255
01:58:04,958 --> 01:58:06,000
just trying to get around

1256
01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:07,416
there and study sharks and rays.

1257
01:58:07,416 --> 01:58:08,041
So I can really

1258
01:58:08,041 --> 01:58:10,208
appreciate what she's doing.

1259
01:58:11,500 --> 01:58:12,958
Though I always kinda have to add the,

1260
01:58:13,416 --> 01:58:14,041
well, she does have

1261
01:58:14,041 --> 01:58:15,250
like, you know, cell phones

1262
01:58:15,458 --> 01:58:16,708
and computers and internet.

1263
01:58:17,125 --> 01:58:17,583
Yes, a little bit.

1264
01:58:17,583 --> 01:58:18,916
Cause I didn't have any of that stuff.

1265
01:58:19,208 --> 01:58:21,791
I mean, I, this is not a joke,

1266
01:58:21,791 --> 01:58:25,291
but literally I had a compass and a map.

1267
01:58:25,500 --> 01:58:26,791
That was how you navigate.

1268
01:58:26,791 --> 01:58:28,875
There was no GPS, nothing.

1269
01:58:29,333 --> 01:58:30,958
So I have to sound like,

1270
01:58:30,958 --> 01:58:31,875
you know, your grandfather

1271
01:58:32,166 --> 01:58:33,083
and say, talk about, you

1272
01:58:33,083 --> 01:58:34,000
know, walking in the snow

1273
01:58:34,000 --> 01:58:35,208
and your bare feet or something.

1274
01:58:36,541 --> 01:58:37,958
But no, you really to go into an area

1275
01:58:37,958 --> 01:58:38,958
that in West Africa,

1276
01:58:39,500 --> 01:58:40,416
you know, we had, we had

1277
01:58:40,416 --> 01:58:43,166
a Lucy on a few weeks ago,

1278
01:58:43,833 --> 01:58:45,208
talking about Angola.

1279
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:47,291
And in her case, she is,

1280
01:58:47,708 --> 01:58:49,000
her parents were Angola.

1281
01:58:49,458 --> 01:58:51,208
So she had a, and she has family there.

1282
01:58:51,208 --> 01:58:52,541
So you had a little bit of a connection,

1283
01:58:52,541 --> 01:58:53,250
but again, that's

1284
01:58:53,250 --> 01:58:55,416
another area in West Africa

1285
01:58:55,416 --> 01:58:57,250
where nobody really knows anything.

1286
01:58:57,750 --> 01:58:59,041
Right. So she's going in there,

1287
01:58:59,041 --> 01:59:00,375
having to build those relationships

1288
01:59:00,375 --> 01:59:01,791
with the community and stuff.

1289
01:59:02,333 --> 01:59:03,875
And I think probably,

1290
01:59:03,875 --> 01:59:04,541
I think it helps too,

1291
01:59:04,541 --> 01:59:05,333
a little bit of your,

1292
01:59:05,333 --> 01:59:07,000
well, in Lucia's case,

1293
01:59:07,041 --> 01:59:08,750
she's not exactly a complete foreigner

1294
01:59:08,750 --> 01:59:09,875
where his girlfriend is.

1295
01:59:09,875 --> 01:59:11,791
She's Tunisian to

1296
01:59:11,791 --> 01:59:13,666
establish herself there.

1297
01:59:14,875 --> 01:59:15,875
And as we talked about, if

1298
01:59:15,875 --> 01:59:17,583
you, you kind of go there,

1299
01:59:17,583 --> 01:59:19,375
if you go there and you're around,

1300
01:59:19,375 --> 01:59:20,125
you go there more than

1301
01:59:20,125 --> 01:59:21,291
like one or two days,

1302
01:59:21,708 --> 01:59:22,500
they'll get to know you and

1303
01:59:22,500 --> 01:59:23,958
start asking you some questions.

1304
01:59:23,958 --> 01:59:25,250
And you have to, that's all about

1305
01:59:25,250 --> 01:59:26,458
building those relationships.

1306
01:59:27,125 --> 01:59:28,000
And it takes, you have

1307
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:28,833
to be kind of persistent

1308
01:59:28,833 --> 01:59:30,166
and be showing up there and

1309
01:59:30,166 --> 01:59:31,791
show you have a keen interest

1310
01:59:31,791 --> 01:59:33,541
in the community, what's going on there

1311
01:59:34,041 --> 01:59:36,333
to kind of, to build those relationships.

1312
01:59:37,083 --> 01:59:37,875
Yeah, no, absolutely.

1313
01:59:38,166 --> 01:59:39,791
I mean, that's the thing, right?

1314
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:43,458
Is the patience, the, you

1315
01:59:43,458 --> 01:59:44,250
know, you have to give yourself

1316
01:59:44,250 --> 01:59:45,916
the vulnerability, giving yourself over

1317
01:59:45,916 --> 01:59:47,375
to getting to know people,

1318
01:59:47,375 --> 01:59:48,583
spending that time with people.

1319
01:59:48,958 --> 01:59:49,916
I think it's an

1320
01:59:49,916 --> 01:59:52,791
important aspect to consider,

1321
01:59:53,541 --> 01:59:55,333
something that needs to be done more.

1322
01:59:55,791 --> 01:59:58,041
And then also working, you

1323
01:59:58,041 --> 01:59:59,208
know, at one point she said

1324
01:59:59,583 --> 02:00:00,333
that she feels more

1325
02:00:00,333 --> 02:00:02,375
comfortable working with fishers

1326
02:00:02,375 --> 02:00:03,541
than she does with the government,

1327
02:00:03,541 --> 02:00:05,041
because the fishers will do more faster.

1328
02:00:05,458 --> 02:00:07,375
And it gets worked because you have the

1329
02:00:07,375 --> 02:00:08,291
people who are out there

1330
02:00:08,291 --> 02:00:10,291
doing the work to be able to

1331
02:00:10,291 --> 02:00:12,416
see the value of, you know,

1332
02:00:12,416 --> 02:00:14,458
protecting these sharks or, you know,

1333
02:00:14,458 --> 02:00:15,833
sort of logging these sharks

1334
02:00:15,833 --> 02:00:18,416
and they see that value in the future.

1335
02:00:19,000 --> 02:00:21,333
So, you know, seeing how those

1336
02:00:21,333 --> 02:00:22,625
relationships build,

1337
02:00:23,500 --> 02:00:25,666
you know, over that time, hopefully as

1338
02:00:25,666 --> 02:00:27,416
she works more with the government,

1339
02:00:27,416 --> 02:00:29,333
they may not have had anybody advocate

1340
02:00:29,333 --> 02:00:32,250
for sharks before and probably not.

1341
02:00:32,291 --> 02:00:34,458
And so, you know, trying to see how

1342
02:00:34,458 --> 02:00:36,875
slowly or quickly that relationship will

1343
02:00:36,875 --> 02:00:38,708
move forward to get into

1344
02:00:38,708 --> 02:00:40,458
see laws get into place.

1345
02:00:40,541 --> 02:00:41,875
That'll be really

1346
02:00:41,875 --> 02:00:43,041
important in the future.

1347
02:00:43,041 --> 02:00:44,416
But it, you know, starts with somebody

1348
02:00:44,416 --> 02:00:45,791
and it starts with Gofran.

1349
02:00:45,791 --> 02:00:47,375
And I think that'll put her in the books,

1350
02:00:47,375 --> 02:00:49,333
you know, as someone who started that

1351
02:00:49,333 --> 02:00:51,541
work and built a positive

1352
02:00:51,541 --> 02:00:53,166
relationship with fishers

1353
02:00:53,333 --> 02:00:55,666
in those communities to discover sharks

1354
02:00:55,666 --> 02:00:57,750
and log and observe all these different

1355
02:00:57,750 --> 02:00:58,833
sharks that are in there.

1356
02:00:58,833 --> 02:01:00,833
And I'll be honest, I'm sure you are too.

1357
02:01:01,958 --> 02:01:04,083
You know, we're excited to see, you know,

1358
02:01:04,333 --> 02:01:06,041
what comes out of this, you know, how

1359
02:01:06,041 --> 02:01:07,791
many sharks are going to be discovered?

1360
02:01:07,791 --> 02:01:09,375
Are there going to be some, you know,

1361
02:01:09,541 --> 02:01:10,916
species that we thought hadn't been seen

1362
02:01:10,916 --> 02:01:12,291
in a long time may have gone extinct?

1363
02:01:12,666 --> 02:01:14,583
Or are we like some lost sharks or are we

1364
02:01:14,583 --> 02:01:16,250
going to see, you know, sharks that we

1365
02:01:16,250 --> 02:01:18,125
typically thought would be there,

1366
02:01:18,125 --> 02:01:18,750
but just haven't been

1367
02:01:18,750 --> 02:01:20,166
logged in those areas.

1368
02:01:20,166 --> 02:01:20,750
And you never know

1369
02:01:20,750 --> 02:01:21,791
what discoveries we get.

1370
02:01:22,166 --> 02:01:23,541
And this is why we always tell people,

1371
02:01:23,541 --> 02:01:25,416
you know, go workplaces where we haven't

1372
02:01:25,416 --> 02:01:26,208
looked for sharks before.

1373
02:01:26,666 --> 02:01:28,666
I mean, this is an example, this podcast

1374
02:01:28,666 --> 02:01:30,791
is an example of, you know, interviewing

1375
02:01:30,791 --> 02:01:33,750
people from South America, from Africa,

1376
02:01:34,250 --> 02:01:35,833
from Indonesia, from

1377
02:01:35,833 --> 02:01:37,125
Australia, from all over the place,

1378
02:01:37,125 --> 02:01:39,416
where they go to places where, you know,

1379
02:01:39,416 --> 02:01:40,833
research hasn't been done and they've

1380
02:01:40,833 --> 02:01:43,083
been able to make these amazing

1381
02:01:43,083 --> 02:01:45,250
discoveries or even just the regular

1382
02:01:45,250 --> 02:01:46,583
discoveries of the species

1383
02:01:46,583 --> 02:01:48,125
that are there, you know.

1384
02:01:48,125 --> 02:01:49,208
And I think that's

1385
02:01:49,208 --> 02:01:50,666
really important to see.

1386
02:01:51,041 --> 02:01:52,666
So, yeah, Gofran, you're amazing.

1387
02:01:52,958 --> 02:01:55,833
The keynote speech is

1388
02:01:55,833 --> 02:01:56,416
going to be amazing.

1389
02:01:56,416 --> 02:01:57,875
I'm sorry, I'm going to have to miss it.

1390
02:01:58,208 --> 02:02:00,416
But Dave, you'll be there supporting her

1391
02:02:00,416 --> 02:02:01,625
and hearing from her.

1392
02:02:01,875 --> 02:02:03,083
And so that'll be at

1393
02:02:03,083 --> 02:02:05,000
Sharks International 2026.

1394
02:02:05,000 --> 02:02:05,833
That'll be exciting.

1395
02:02:06,083 --> 02:02:07,583
So I'm looking forward to seeing that.

1396
02:02:08,041 --> 02:02:09,625
Now, Dave, if people want to get a hold

1397
02:02:09,625 --> 02:02:11,833
of you, how would they do so if they want

1398
02:02:11,833 --> 02:02:12,708
to ask questions or

1399
02:02:12,708 --> 02:02:13,708
comments or anything like that?

1400
02:02:13,916 --> 02:02:16,000
Lost Shark Guy on Instagram, also on Go

1401
02:02:16,000 --> 02:02:17,791
to the YouTube channel, Lost Shark Guy.

1402
02:02:18,500 --> 02:02:20,208
Check out our series, Searching for Lost

1403
02:02:20,208 --> 02:02:21,083
Sharks, Extinct or

1404
02:02:21,083 --> 02:02:22,458
Alive, the latest episode.

1405
02:02:22,916 --> 02:02:24,791
On River Sharks is now posted.

1406
02:02:25,083 --> 02:02:27,958
And please leave a comment and let me

1407
02:02:27,958 --> 02:02:29,083
know how you enjoy it

1408
02:02:29,083 --> 02:02:30,166
and hopefully enjoy it.

1409
02:02:30,166 --> 02:02:30,875
And please subscribe.

1410
02:02:32,500 --> 02:02:32,916
Absolutely.

1411
02:02:33,166 --> 02:02:34,041
Don't forget to subscribe.

1412
02:02:34,041 --> 02:02:35,791
We got more content coming out.

1413
02:02:36,541 --> 02:02:37,791
It's going to be it's going to be amazing

1414
02:02:37,791 --> 02:02:38,875
working on it right now.

1415
02:02:39,458 --> 02:02:41,041
And if you want to get a hold of myself

1416
02:02:41,041 --> 02:02:42,583
and Dave, you can go to at

1417
02:02:42,583 --> 02:02:44,416
Beyond Jaws on Instagram.

1418
02:02:44,416 --> 02:02:46,750
And of course, our YouTube channel is

1419
02:02:46,750 --> 02:02:49,208
Beyond Jaws Pod on YouTube.

1420
02:02:49,333 --> 02:02:50,958
And you can just subscribe to that and to

1421
02:02:50,958 --> 02:02:52,166
follow so you don't miss any of the

1422
02:02:52,166 --> 02:02:54,375
episodes of the other episodes where you

1423
02:02:54,375 --> 02:02:56,333
can see our faces and you can enjoy us

1424
02:02:56,333 --> 02:02:57,750
talking to our guests.

1425
02:02:58,000 --> 02:02:58,791
So thank you so much for

1426
02:02:58,791 --> 02:03:00,250
joining us from Dave and I.

1427
02:03:00,250 --> 02:03:02,750
We really appreciate your time and we

1428
02:03:02,750 --> 02:03:03,958
want to thank you so much for joining us

1429
02:03:03,958 --> 02:03:05,291
on this episode of

1430
02:03:05,291 --> 02:03:06,541
the Beyond Jaws podcast.

1431
02:03:06,541 --> 02:03:07,000
Have a great day.

1432
02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:07,541
We'll talk to you next

1433
02:03:07,541 --> 02:03:09,041
time and happy conservation.