How Do You Build an Ocean Career When You Live Inland?

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Well, hello out there and

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how to protect the ocean land.

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You're probably wondering

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why I am here and who I am.

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I'm Dave Ebert and I'm

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typically Andrew Lewin's co-host

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for the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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But today there's

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been a friendly takeover

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that I've commandeered the show today

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to have on a special guest,

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someone who's never been a

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guest in the show before,

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and that is Andrew Lewin.

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And Andrew is here to talk

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about a job he just obtained.

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He's gonna be starting out

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here in the next week or two

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and kind of a follow the theme that we

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talk about in our, on the Beyond Jaws

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podcast and a theme that Andrew's been

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talking about on Beyond

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on how to protect the ocean this week is,

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is your career path.

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How do you go about finding jobs and find

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that job you really are

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passionate about and about,

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and how you love that job.

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And so today I'm gonna be the host and

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we're gonna be talking to Andrew and he

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may or may not regret

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at the end of the show

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whether I take over, but with that, let

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me introduce you to my special guest

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today, Andrew Lewin.

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Hello everybody, thanks Dave.

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Lovely to be here, so happy to be on this

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wonderful podcast that's been built.

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Yeah, we only have the biggest names in

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this podcast as you know.

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So tell us how, so you got a new job now

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we're gonna talk about.

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Before we talk about this job, why don't

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you share with everyone, like, how did

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you get it, you've been doing this sort

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of YouTube podcast

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stuff for 16 years now.

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16 years, yeah.

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Yeah, and so you were really kind of

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early on in the infancy of this whole

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genre and why don't you share with

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everybody, how did you, going back to

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2010, how did you see the writing on the

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wall for this whole area?

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Well, I'll be honest, I didn't see the

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writing on the wall right off the bat.

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You know, I was more of a victim of

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circumstance in a way, you know, made

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some choices in my life that I'm still

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proud of today, but made some hard

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choices in my life about

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picking, you know, a job in marine

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biology or raising a family in the place

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that I grew up, which was not by the

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coast, which is hard to hold a marine

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biology job when you're

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not by an ocean coast, right?

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I live by the Great Lakes, which is

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lovely to live by, but I live in Ontario,

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Canada. There's

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obviously no ocean around us.

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And so, you know, I, you know, I was

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talking to my wife of 20 years now, but

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back then, you know, we were planning out

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our life and and we were discussing where

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we were going to live.

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And we wanted to raise our kids, you

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know, around around our family. And I'll

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be honest, like, I wasn't I didn't really

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want that right off the bat.

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I wanted to like explore and go and raise

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our kids around, you know, around the

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world and wherever this marine biology

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place would take it.

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Because Dave, as you know, it could take

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you pretty much anywhere. And when you

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live in Canada, too, I mean, you have

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three coasts to go to.

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There's also the option back then of the

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US, which was probably, you know, those

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are those are the geographies that were

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what I was looking at.

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But, you know, these are difficult

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decisions to make. You have to make this

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personal decision. I knew it was going to

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be tough one. I chose, you know, I chose

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love and I chose family over over the

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job, which again, I don't regret because

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we had a fantastic life.

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It's really great to see to raise kids

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around like grandparents and uncles and

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and things like that. So I think that was

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was really good. I

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didn't see right off the bat.

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But as I as like my kids were growing up

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there now, you know, my daughter's my

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oldest daughter's now in university, you

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know, doing marine

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biology and or wildlife biology.

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And my youngest daughter is, you know,

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almost out of high school now. She's in

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she's a junior, I guess is what you say.

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Is that great? Elevens

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a junior. Yeah. Yeah.

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In grade eleven, going to grade twelve

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next year. So, you know, they're older

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now, but I've been able to, you know,

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we've been able to raise our kids in a in

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a familiar place and around family, which

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has been which has been wonderful.

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But it also has been a challenge to be

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around the ocean or be working within the

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ocean during that time. And so in the

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early two thousands, you know, I do my

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master's. I came back here. I do my

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master's out in Halifax. It came back

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here and, you know, worked some some

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private consulting jobs, which it paid

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the bills. I got to do some ocean stuff.

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I got to do some riverine stuff, some

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some lake work, really kind of cool

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stuff. I got to do. And and that was a lot of fun. But it's been a lot of fun.

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But it just didn't do everything I wanted

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to do. One, it wasn't in oceans. Two, all

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the time is mostly riverine and lakes.

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Two, it was, you know, it was it was

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working for a lot of private consulting

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that I was doing was working for

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industry. And and it's it's good work

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because you're working for industry to

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make sure they're following regulations.

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But you're working with industries like

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oil and gas and like mining and you know,

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eventually what's going to happen once

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they scout out sites once they find

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hydrocarbon places where they can where

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they can drill. Eventually, it's going to

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happen where they're going to drill.

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They're going to ruin the environment at

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some point in a specific area,

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no matter what environmental.

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Experiments you do in environmental

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assessments, impact assessments, it's

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still going to be it's taxing on the mind

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for someone who wants to protect the

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planet rather than harm it even more. So

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that was short lived for about four,

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maybe five or six years. And then and

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then I started to, you know, I was I was

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on my own for a little bit. And I, I've

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always had this entrepreneurial

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motivation in me. And so even even in my management, I started to think about it.

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And my masters, my masters, I, I was big

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into the marine aquarium hobby, I was my

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my geeky kind of hobby. And when I lived

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out in Halifax, it's a lot more expensive

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to have that hobby in Halifax, because

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the transportation coming to Toronto

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where I lived, it's a it's a big hub,

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it's an international hub, one of the

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biggest airports in the world.

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But going to Halifax, it's an extra

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flight hard to get to. So not as many

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shipments were getting to we're going to

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Halifax. So the prices were increasing.

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So as you know, as a true entrepreneur

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would do is like, I can do better. And so

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I tried to do better. I could not do

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better. I did not have that business

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mindset at that point to do what I wanted

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to do. But regardless, I tried and and

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there were, let's just say I was in a one

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bedroom apartment. I live with a buddy of

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mine and my and my my my girlfriend,

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who's now my wife, and I'm going to be in a one bedroom apartment.

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So I was in a two bedroom apartment and I

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like the way I live with my wife and we

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were we had aquariums everywhere, all

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over the house. Like it was everywhere.

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Let's just say like, we never had to

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worry about moisturizing skin because

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it's like the heat and the salt in the in

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the air was quite wonderful. But anyway,

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you know, I that was my first

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entrepreneurial sort of venture and then

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afterwards, like after I stopped

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consulting for a bit.

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but did a couple jobs with government

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where I got to do some GIS

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and Marine Protected Area

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planning stuff for

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Department of Fisheries

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and Oceans here in Canada.

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And then I started to

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kind of get the bug of like,

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hey, I wanted to stay in touch

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with a lot of the people

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that I've stayed in touch with,

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either online, like Twitter

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and Facebook were starting

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to come and YouTube were

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starting to come bigger

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and bigger online, 2008, 2009,

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podcasting was starting to come big,

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although I hadn't really heard of

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podcasting at that point.

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I didn't know exactly what it was.

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I just thought it was radio,

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but you know, that's

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basically what I thought.

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And then I get this bug

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in me where I'm just like,

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I'm gonna start a blog, you know,

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I'm just gonna start

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a blog where every day

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I'm going to write

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about something, you know,

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something in the ocean, an article

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or something I have on mind.

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And then I realized

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like writing is not easy,

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it's hard and I'm not good

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at it and I don't like it.

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So that was a very quick kind of way

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of doing things, right?

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And yeah, sorry, go ahead.

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No, I want to ask you, so

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you're getting this interest

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and I can tell you for

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writing, I find there's two ways,

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either people have a knack

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for writing or they don't.

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I didn't, but I learned to.

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Right.

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So writing, I just mentioned that,

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that you can learn to write.

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I couldn't write to save

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my life until grad school

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and then where you had

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to learn how to write.

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And then I found I really got into it,

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but yeah, it's

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something you gotta learn to do.

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But while you had this

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passion to pursue this,

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obviously you had to pay

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some bills and keep going.

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And so this was really

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a side gig you had going

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with the writing and the

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blogs and all this stuff.

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It was literally a side hustle.

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So while I was off of

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work, I really started.

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I had young, like my kids

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were toddlers at the time.

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So I was busy, obviously being a dad,

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I was busy with my work.

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And then I was, and then so I

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01:08:30,208 --> 01:08:31,416
got to do it during the day.

271
01:08:31,916 --> 01:08:32,791
And then finally I was

272
01:08:32,791 --> 01:08:33,458
like, this is ridiculous,

273
01:08:33,458 --> 01:08:34,250
I need to get a job

274
01:08:34,250 --> 01:08:35,125
because it's not paying

275
01:08:35,291 --> 01:08:35,875
any kind of bills.

276
01:08:36,208 --> 01:08:37,041
So I need to get a job.

277
01:08:37,041 --> 01:08:37,541
I actually was

278
01:08:37,541 --> 01:08:38,791
fortunate enough to get a job

279
01:08:38,916 --> 01:08:40,375
for Fisheries Notions Canada

280
01:08:40,375 --> 01:08:43,333
as an, it was an awesome job.

281
01:08:43,625 --> 01:08:45,750
Like I, my first job there was wonderful.

282
01:08:46,375 --> 01:08:47,916
I was working with a fellow by the name

283
01:08:47,916 --> 01:08:48,958
of Dr. Nick Mandrak,

284
01:08:49,208 --> 01:08:50,833
who's a, actually Dave, you'd get along

285
01:08:50,833 --> 01:08:51,791
really well with him.

286
01:08:51,791 --> 01:08:53,083
He's Nick Theologist as well.

287
01:08:53,500 --> 01:08:56,541
And he, do you, have you ever heard of

288
01:08:56,541 --> 01:08:57,833
Crossman and Crossman

289
01:08:57,833 --> 01:08:58,750
like the field

290
01:08:58,750 --> 01:09:00,000
identification book for fishes?

291
01:09:00,625 --> 01:09:01,375
Yeah, I have.

292
01:09:01,666 --> 01:09:03,041
Yeah, so that was his advisor.

293
01:09:04,208 --> 01:09:05,125
Crossman was his advisor.

294
01:09:05,333 --> 01:09:06,250
And he actually, there's a book called

295
01:09:06,250 --> 01:09:07,666
Crossman and Mandrak.

296
01:09:08,250 --> 01:09:11,000
Nick Mandrak was my boss at the time.

297
01:09:11,291 --> 01:09:11,958
And I'll be honest,

298
01:09:11,958 --> 01:09:13,791
it was such a good gig.

299
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:15,416
Because he was in,

300
01:09:15,791 --> 01:09:16,625
like he was a researcher,

301
01:09:16,625 --> 01:09:19,125
but he was in administration position

302
01:09:19,125 --> 01:09:20,000
where he had to do a lot of

303
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:21,041
meetings across the border.

304
01:09:21,333 --> 01:09:22,083
Cause you know, Great

305
01:09:22,083 --> 01:09:23,708
Lakes is all about cross border

306
01:09:23,916 --> 01:09:24,791
relations and things

307
01:09:24,791 --> 01:09:25,625
like that in science.

308
01:09:26,250 --> 01:09:27,291
We were on the science side.

309
01:09:27,291 --> 01:09:28,250
And so he had like an

310
01:09:28,250 --> 01:09:29,958
Excel sheet of projects to do.

311
01:09:30,125 --> 01:09:30,833
Like it was like a

312
01:09:30,833 --> 01:09:31,875
law, like 200 projects.

313
01:09:31,958 --> 01:09:33,500
Cause basically the public would ask us

314
01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:34,875
questions and we would have to find out

315
01:09:34,875 --> 01:09:37,083
the answers. And so, so they

316
01:09:37,083 --> 01:09:38,458
were really cool, cool things.

317
01:09:38,708 --> 01:09:40,958
And so he would have me do all these

318
01:09:40,958 --> 01:09:42,208
projects and he goes, okay,

319
01:09:42,208 --> 01:09:43,583
I'm going to wait for two weeks in

320
01:09:43,583 --> 01:09:45,208
meetings. If you need anything,

321
01:09:45,208 --> 01:09:46,000
this is how long ago it was

322
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:47,166
hit me up on my Blackberry.

323
01:09:47,416 --> 01:09:48,000
And I'm like, all

324
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:48,875
right, cool. No problem.

325
01:09:49,208 --> 01:09:49,625
He goes, but if you

326
01:09:49,625 --> 01:09:50,625
don't leave, you just do it.

327
01:09:50,625 --> 01:09:51,250
If you have questions,

328
01:09:51,250 --> 01:09:52,625
you know, we can get to it.

329
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:53,583
As long as you can move

330
01:09:53,583 --> 01:09:54,541
on to another project,

331
01:09:54,541 --> 01:09:55,916
I'll give you like six or seven projects

332
01:09:55,916 --> 01:09:57,250
at a time and I'll get to work on it.

333
01:09:57,250 --> 01:09:57,916
But it was all science

334
01:09:57,916 --> 01:09:58,791
stuff. It was all stats.

335
01:09:59,041 --> 01:10:00,250
I was, I was a geek at that

336
01:10:00,250 --> 01:10:01,208
point. There was some GIS.

337
01:10:01,250 --> 01:10:02,958
We were doing like Asian carp risk

338
01:10:02,958 --> 01:10:04,291
assessments. We were doing,

339
01:10:04,791 --> 01:10:06,500
we were trying to find out how similar

340
01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:09,458
the fish assemblages

341
01:10:09,458 --> 01:10:11,625
were in each lake over time.

342
01:10:11,625 --> 01:10:13,833
So we had data back to like the 1800s and

343
01:10:13,833 --> 01:10:16,000
then all the way to present day.

344
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:16,916
So we were kind of looking, they

345
01:10:16,916 --> 01:10:18,416
obviously, they got similar as the lock

346
01:10:18,416 --> 01:10:20,125
system kind of got built in and stuff.

347
01:10:20,458 --> 01:10:21,000
And it was really

348
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:22,375
cool, cool things, right?

349
01:10:22,500 --> 01:10:23,875
Everything was every day was different.

350
01:10:24,208 --> 01:10:26,375
So, and I really, really enjoyed that,

351
01:10:27,125 --> 01:10:28,291
which is kind of funny because it's going

352
01:10:28,291 --> 01:10:30,041
to come, come into play in a bit.

353
01:10:30,333 --> 01:10:32,916
But, but yeah, and then of course the

354
01:10:32,916 --> 01:10:34,666
government comes in and you know, we had

355
01:10:34,666 --> 01:10:35,583
a conservative government.

356
01:10:35,583 --> 01:10:37,791
So they wanted to cut a lot of stuff that

357
01:10:37,791 --> 01:10:39,333
was happening at fisheries notions for a

358
01:10:39,333 --> 01:10:40,166
number of different reasons.

359
01:10:40,416 --> 01:10:42,083
So the position that I was about to move

360
01:10:42,083 --> 01:10:44,333
into firm permanently got

361
01:10:44,333 --> 01:10:46,000
cut because it was just a

362
01:10:46,208 --> 01:10:48,458
empty position on the org chart. And so

363
01:10:48,458 --> 01:10:50,083
instead of affecting somebody who's

364
01:10:50,083 --> 01:10:51,708
already in a position, they

365
01:10:51,708 --> 01:10:53,000
just cut that position out.

366
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:54,875
So I was kind of stuck. I went into doing

367
01:10:54,875 --> 01:10:57,208
more database management and GIS

368
01:10:57,208 --> 01:10:58,583
management, which I learned a lot,

369
01:10:58,625 --> 01:11:00,583
but it wasn't, I wasn't having as much

370
01:11:00,583 --> 01:11:03,000
fun. So eventually I left that position.

371
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:05,750
But while this was happening, I was doing

372
01:11:05,750 --> 01:11:08,500
science communication on the side because

373
01:11:08,500 --> 01:11:10,250
that's what I was realizing,

374
01:11:10,250 --> 01:11:12,666
even though I didn't like writing, I was

375
01:11:12,666 --> 01:11:15,083
doing like YouTube videos and then I

376
01:11:15,083 --> 01:11:16,416
started, I started the podcast.

377
01:11:16,708 --> 01:11:19,458
But I was just like, this is what's fun.

378
01:11:19,875 --> 01:11:22,375
Like, like telling stories, like looking

379
01:11:22,375 --> 01:11:23,875
at articles and telling people about

380
01:11:23,875 --> 01:11:24,708
stories in the ocean.

381
01:11:25,458 --> 01:11:27,916
That's what I really enjoyed to do. And

382
01:11:27,916 --> 01:11:31,458
over time, I started to realize that

383
01:11:31,458 --> 01:11:33,541
every time I was on a boat, like back in

384
01:11:33,541 --> 01:11:34,500
the, like a couple of my

385
01:11:34,500 --> 01:11:35,625
jobs were just field work.

386
01:11:35,625 --> 01:11:38,500
Anytime I was on a boat, I love the

387
01:11:38,500 --> 01:11:40,166
times, you know, when you're like, you're

388
01:11:40,166 --> 01:11:42,250
not working outside, it's say the day's

389
01:11:42,250 --> 01:11:44,708
done, you're on a ship and you're just

390
01:11:44,708 --> 01:11:45,958
all around, you're all having dinner.

391
01:11:45,958 --> 01:11:48,833
And then you're just trading stories from

392
01:11:48,833 --> 01:11:50,833
the field. And, you know, I was on a

393
01:11:50,833 --> 01:11:52,500
boat. One of my first jobs was at

394
01:11:52,500 --> 01:11:54,458
Louisiana University's Marine

395
01:11:54,458 --> 01:11:56,041
Consortium down in Louisiana.

396
01:11:56,958 --> 01:11:58,791
And, and we would have researchers come

397
01:11:58,791 --> 01:12:00,416
out. We were basically like a business

398
01:12:00,416 --> 01:12:02,375
and we would have researchers come out

399
01:12:02,375 --> 01:12:04,750
and do field work and they would rent the

400
01:12:04,750 --> 01:12:05,625
ship and I would be the

401
01:12:05,625 --> 01:12:05,958
Marine technician on the ship.

402
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,333
So I would get people from all over the

403
01:12:08,333 --> 01:12:10,291
States, all over the world, really. And

404
01:12:10,291 --> 01:12:11,750
we would be, I'd be listening to their

405
01:12:11,750 --> 01:12:13,791
stories. I was a young kid at that point,

406
01:12:13,791 --> 01:12:15,291
listening to their stories about, you

407
01:12:15,291 --> 01:12:17,083
know, how they got seasick somewhere or

408
01:12:17,083 --> 01:12:18,208
how, you know, like they lost

409
01:12:18,208 --> 01:12:20,500
instrumentation somewhere, like just fun,

410
01:12:20,500 --> 01:12:22,250
like weird kind of stories that would

411
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:22,958
happen out in the field.

412
01:12:22,958 --> 01:12:24,916
And I, and you know, over as I started

413
01:12:24,916 --> 01:12:25,916
doing the science communication, it's

414
01:12:25,916 --> 01:12:28,000
like, those are the stories that I love

415
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,041
to hear, like, or even just like what we

416
01:12:30,041 --> 01:12:32,833
found here, we found this species or, you

417
01:12:32,833 --> 01:12:34,333
know, we found evidence of such and such.

418
01:12:34,333 --> 01:12:36,833
And it was just fun. Like, I always

419
01:12:36,833 --> 01:12:38,708
enjoyed those stories. I always sat there

420
01:12:38,708 --> 01:12:40,666
and listened as long as I could, even if

421
01:12:40,666 --> 01:12:41,916
I was feeling sleepy and I had

422
01:12:41,916 --> 01:12:42,958
to get up early the next day.

423
01:12:43,958 --> 01:12:45,375
And that's what I was trying. Like when I

424
01:12:45,375 --> 01:12:48,583
started the podcast, I started to try and

425
01:12:48,583 --> 01:12:51,250
recreate those, those feelings by trading

426
01:12:51,250 --> 01:12:52,833
stories with people, like having people

427
01:12:52,833 --> 01:12:55,541
come on the podcast and be like, tell me

428
01:12:55,541 --> 01:12:57,750
about this project or tell me about what

429
01:12:57,750 --> 01:12:58,708
you're doing lately and

430
01:12:58,708 --> 01:12:59,875
share it with everybody else.

431
01:12:59,958 --> 01:13:01,000
Like essentially it's a conversation

432
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,833
between the two of us, but everybody else

433
01:13:03,833 --> 01:13:05,250
is listening in like they're flying on

434
01:13:05,250 --> 01:13:06,416
the wall so they can get the same

435
01:13:06,416 --> 01:13:07,875
information and hopefully get the same

436
01:13:07,875 --> 01:13:08,875
feeling that I did

437
01:13:08,875 --> 01:13:10,625
doing that conversation.

438
01:13:11,083 --> 01:13:14,000
And I did, I did about, I don't know, 10

439
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,041
to 12 of those episodes. There's

440
01:13:16,041 --> 01:13:17,875
interviews was once a week. And then I

441
01:13:17,875 --> 01:13:19,583
got the bug and I'm like, I upgraded my

442
01:13:19,583 --> 01:13:21,625
microphone and I'm like, I'm doing five

443
01:13:21,625 --> 01:13:22,916
days a week. And then after

444
01:13:22,916 --> 01:13:23,958
that, it was like, that was it.

445
01:13:23,958 --> 01:13:26,125
And now did you have any like, okay,

446
01:13:26,250 --> 01:13:28,333
obviously this is in the way early days

447
01:13:28,333 --> 01:13:31,750
of podcasts and YouTube. And so did you

448
01:13:31,750 --> 01:13:36,166
have any like, um, like technical skills

449
01:13:36,166 --> 01:13:38,250
or any, how did you figure out some of

450
01:13:38,250 --> 01:13:39,375
this? How did you figure

451
01:13:39,375 --> 01:13:40,625
out some of this stuff?

452
01:13:40,958 --> 01:13:42,416
Like with doing the, whether it was the

453
01:13:42,416 --> 01:13:45,000
YouTube or the podcast or the, how did

454
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:46,000
you figure out some of

455
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:46,958
this stuff early days?

456
01:13:46,958 --> 01:13:50,041
I didn't, it was lots of mistakes, right?

457
01:13:50,166 --> 01:13:51,708
So podcasting back then, so this is like,

458
01:13:51,708 --> 01:13:53,958
you were looking at, I started listening

459
01:13:53,958 --> 01:13:55,583
to somebody put me on the podcast. A

460
01:13:55,583 --> 01:13:56,833
friend of mine that used to play football

461
01:13:56,833 --> 01:14:00,166
with put me on the podcast 2012, 2013.

462
01:14:00,166 --> 01:14:01,708
I started to listen to a bunch about

463
01:14:01,708 --> 01:14:03,500
entrepreneurship and things like that.

464
01:14:03,500 --> 01:14:04,875
And because I want to be an entrepreneur

465
01:14:04,875 --> 01:14:06,916
and, and then I was like, oh, like

466
01:14:06,916 --> 01:14:07,708
there's nothing on

467
01:14:07,708 --> 01:14:09,958
oceans on this in the pockets.

468
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,291
I think there was one, there was one show

469
01:14:13,291 --> 01:14:15,916
that was on oceans and it hadn't run in a

470
01:14:15,916 --> 01:14:17,250
while. They haven't published episodes in

471
01:14:17,250 --> 01:14:19,791
a while. And so I first inquired about

472
01:14:19,791 --> 01:14:21,291
them. I was like, Hey, can I do this

473
01:14:21,291 --> 01:14:22,375
podcast? Well, you have to follow a

474
01:14:22,375 --> 01:14:24,000
certain, you have to follow this type of,

475
01:14:24,500 --> 01:14:25,083
cause it was like a, it

476
01:14:25,083 --> 01:14:26,166
was almost like a franchise.

477
01:14:26,166 --> 01:14:27,791
It was only like a network. And so they

478
01:14:27,791 --> 01:14:28,833
were just like, you had, it was a British

479
01:14:28,833 --> 01:14:30,625
one. You have to follow a specific way

480
01:14:30,625 --> 01:14:32,041
that they do things. And I was like, you

481
01:14:32,041 --> 01:14:33,708
know what? Maybe that's not for me. I

482
01:14:33,708 --> 01:14:34,958
want to kind of do it my own style.

483
01:14:35,958 --> 01:14:38,708
And so I just, I kind of just said, you

484
01:14:38,708 --> 01:14:40,833
know what? I'll do it myself. And that's

485
01:14:40,833 --> 01:14:43,250
when I started to look at how easy or

486
01:14:43,250 --> 01:14:45,166
difficult it was challenging. It was to

487
01:14:45,166 --> 01:14:47,416
do like to put a podcast out.

488
01:14:48,125 --> 01:14:49,625
And it wasn't as easy as I thought it

489
01:14:49,625 --> 01:14:51,875
would be. You know, there's a lot of

490
01:14:51,875 --> 01:14:54,083
their hosting companies I had to find out

491
01:14:54,083 --> 01:14:55,500
about. And then there was ways to do

492
01:14:55,500 --> 01:14:57,583
this. And how do you record? Then you,

493
01:14:57,583 --> 01:14:58,750
how do you get it up there?

494
01:14:58,750 --> 01:14:59,958
I had to learn all of that.

495
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,375
I had, you know, because I had the

496
01:15:02,375 --> 01:15:05,208
schooling in GIS and so I learned a lot

497
01:15:05,208 --> 01:15:06,625
of different software, like remote

498
01:15:06,625 --> 01:15:08,500
sensing software in GIS software,

499
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:10,791
statistical software, I had a little bit

500
01:15:10,791 --> 01:15:12,500
of experience in learning new things.

501
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:14,375
And so I just, it was just patience. It

502
01:15:14,375 --> 01:15:16,750
was a lot of time of like being on a

503
01:15:16,750 --> 01:15:19,250
computer for like four hours every night,

504
01:15:19,250 --> 01:15:21,375
you know, after the kids went to bed and

505
01:15:21,375 --> 01:15:22,833
just kind of like my eyes would come out

506
01:15:22,833 --> 01:15:25,208
and be all red, you know, just like, just

507
01:15:25,208 --> 01:15:26,875
from looking at a screen the whole time,

508
01:15:26,875 --> 01:15:27,750
trying to figure out

509
01:15:27,750 --> 01:15:27,958
how to do this stuff.

510
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:31,208
And when I first did it, it was, it was

511
01:15:31,208 --> 01:15:34,333
so bad, Dave, like I, I joined a hosting

512
01:15:34,333 --> 01:15:37,500
company through another company. And then

513
01:15:37,500 --> 01:15:39,416
that company, so I'd upload it to that

514
01:15:39,416 --> 01:15:43,125
system. And, and I started to publish and

515
01:15:43,125 --> 01:15:44,333
I was like, Oh, this is great. This is

516
01:15:44,333 --> 01:15:45,500
great. And of course, you know, I'm a

517
01:15:45,500 --> 01:15:47,000
numbers guy. So I always like to look at

518
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:48,958
statistics and like what my numbers are, the download numbers and stuff.

519
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,250
And there's, I didn't realize there's

520
01:15:52,250 --> 01:15:54,208
like a specific standard and, but there's

521
01:15:54,208 --> 01:15:56,666
also ways that like the numbers can be

522
01:15:56,666 --> 01:15:58,541
blown out of proportion. So there was one

523
01:15:58,541 --> 01:16:00,583
day I woke up, I had published it at

524
01:16:00,583 --> 01:16:02,375
midnight, I woke up in the morning and I,

525
01:16:02,375 --> 01:16:03,833
the first thing I would do is check my

526
01:16:03,833 --> 01:16:05,291
downloads. I checked the downloads and

527
01:16:05,291 --> 01:16:08,750
normally I'm getting like 25, you know,

528
01:16:08,750 --> 01:16:09,958
26, 27, this one, Dave, I was at 22,000, 22,000 downloads.

529
01:16:09,958 --> 01:16:14,750
And I was like, Oh, this is amazing.

530
01:16:15,083 --> 01:16:17,500
Like, holy cow. Like this is awesome.

531
01:16:17,500 --> 01:16:19,708
Like I've made it. I just said that. I

532
01:16:19,708 --> 01:16:22,000
go, I don't have to get a job anymore.

533
01:16:22,375 --> 01:16:24,958
I'm like, I am. I made it. This is

534
01:16:24,958 --> 01:16:26,458
awesome. This is only in the morning.

535
01:16:26,458 --> 01:16:27,625
Let's see what happens at night. Then I

536
01:16:27,625 --> 01:16:29,208
find out all of those were ridiculous

537
01:16:29,208 --> 01:16:30,666
numbers. They were bought. So they were

538
01:16:30,666 --> 01:16:32,458
this, they were that. I was like, that

539
01:16:32,458 --> 01:16:34,500
sucks. And then the real hosting site, I

540
01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:36,041
went on to that hosting site and it was

541
01:16:36,041 --> 01:16:39,375
like 30. So I had like five more than

542
01:16:39,375 --> 01:16:39,958
normal. It was just like, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just like, oh, no, no, no, no,
no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

543
01:16:39,958 --> 01:16:41,458
no. It was just like, you know, then I

544
01:16:41,458 --> 01:16:42,333
realized that there's a

545
01:16:42,333 --> 01:16:43,458
standard and stuff. So a lot

546
01:16:43,458 --> 01:16:46,041
of it was fumbling through, you know,

547
01:16:46,041 --> 01:16:47,708
microphones and things like that. Like I

548
01:16:47,708 --> 01:16:49,166
had that Yeti microphone.

549
01:16:49,375 --> 01:16:51,333
If you probably can't see it. Like if

550
01:16:51,333 --> 01:16:52,375
you're listening to this on

551
01:16:52,375 --> 01:16:53,625
the, on the audio podcast,

552
01:16:53,625 --> 01:16:55,250
but there's a Yeti microphone just in the

553
01:16:55,250 --> 01:16:56,125
back there and it

554
01:16:56,125 --> 01:16:57,500
worked well. I didn't all

555
01:16:57,500 --> 01:16:58,791
be honest. I probably didn't know exactly

556
01:16:58,791 --> 01:17:00,958
how to use it. But it

557
01:17:00,958 --> 01:17:02,000
echoed a lot because

558
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:05,375
my room is, you know, is not insulated

559
01:17:05,375 --> 01:17:06,791
for sound. So it echoed

560
01:17:06,791 --> 01:17:07,875
quite a bit. Right. And

561
01:17:07,875 --> 01:17:09,666
so the sound didn't sound as good as it

562
01:17:09,666 --> 01:17:11,166
does now. Right. And

563
01:17:11,166 --> 01:17:12,208
so I just upgraded my

564
01:17:12,208 --> 01:17:14,000
microphone and I said, I'm going to spend

565
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:15,041
like 500 bucks on this

566
01:17:15,041 --> 01:17:15,750
microphone so I don't

567
01:17:15,750 --> 01:17:17,875
have any worry whatsoever. And I

568
01:17:17,875 --> 01:17:18,916
basically looked at the

569
01:17:18,916 --> 01:17:20,791
microphones that radio stations

570
01:17:20,791 --> 01:17:23,583
that were publishing online were using.

571
01:17:23,583 --> 01:17:24,416
And I'm like, okay, I'm

572
01:17:24,416 --> 01:17:25,333
going to find out, okay,

573
01:17:25,500 --> 01:17:27,291
that's the sure SM seven B. All right.

574
01:17:27,291 --> 01:17:27,916
I'm going to go look

575
01:17:27,916 --> 01:17:29,125
it up on Amazon and find

576
01:17:29,125 --> 01:17:31,458
out what it was and, and buy it. And I,

577
01:17:31,458 --> 01:17:32,583
and I, and I ended up

578
01:17:32,583 --> 01:17:33,541
actually before I bought

579
01:17:33,666 --> 01:17:35,083
it. I actually rented a bunch of

580
01:17:35,083 --> 01:17:37,916
microphones at a local music

581
01:17:37,916 --> 01:17:39,291
store that I have here called

582
01:17:39,291 --> 01:17:41,750
Long and McQuaid and I could rent it for

583
01:17:41,750 --> 01:17:43,541
like 15 bucks a week. I was like, this is

584
01:17:43,666 --> 01:17:46,958
great. So I would do that. And, and, and

585
01:17:46,958 --> 01:17:47,791
then I found out the

586
01:17:47,791 --> 01:17:48,750
sound was really good.

587
01:17:48,750 --> 01:17:50,583
So I was like, this is perfect. I'll just

588
01:17:50,583 --> 01:17:51,500
buy that microphone.

589
01:17:51,750 --> 01:17:52,500
And then when, and then

590
01:17:52,500 --> 01:17:56,500
I got invited to do a conference at, and

591
01:17:56,500 --> 01:17:57,375
I, and I rented a

592
01:17:57,375 --> 01:17:58,208
bunch of microphones and I

593
01:17:58,291 --> 01:17:59,750
went over there and I had like two

594
01:17:59,750 --> 01:18:01,875
microphones that people would, um, I

595
01:18:01,875 --> 01:18:02,500
would interview people

596
01:18:02,625 --> 01:18:05,041
with. So yeah. So it's like, and, and

597
01:18:05,041 --> 01:18:06,625
it's just like, when

598
01:18:06,625 --> 01:18:07,750
you, when you look at these

599
01:18:07,750 --> 01:18:09,458
different things, a lot of times people

600
01:18:09,458 --> 01:18:11,125
would email me and be

601
01:18:11,125 --> 01:18:13,250
like, Hey, your sound is awful

602
01:18:13,250 --> 01:18:15,666
on this one. Like you got to figure, you

603
01:18:15,666 --> 01:18:16,416
got to figure your

604
01:18:16,416 --> 01:18:17,416
stuff out. And I'm like,

605
01:18:17,625 --> 01:18:20,250
Oh, okay. Sorry. You know, and then you'd

606
01:18:20,250 --> 01:18:21,041
do it all over again.

607
01:18:21,041 --> 01:18:21,750
There were times like,

608
01:18:22,041 --> 01:18:23,625
I think my first episode I recorded it,

609
01:18:23,625 --> 01:18:24,416
they were 45 minutes

610
01:18:24,416 --> 01:18:26,166
long. Like my first one of

611
01:18:26,166 --> 01:18:28,291
my first solo episodes, I think I

612
01:18:28,291 --> 01:18:30,083
rerecorded it three times

613
01:18:30,083 --> 01:18:31,958
because I kept losing it. I

614
01:18:31,958 --> 01:18:33,375
kept deleting it by accident. I couldn't

615
01:18:33,375 --> 01:18:34,916
figure out how to save it on the software

616
01:18:34,916 --> 01:18:36,916
that I was using, you know? And so like

617
01:18:36,916 --> 01:18:37,541
there were some

618
01:18:37,541 --> 01:18:39,500
frustrating times. Like it, it wasn't

619
01:18:39,541 --> 01:18:40,791
easy. There was some times where I was

620
01:18:40,791 --> 01:18:42,208
like, I spent, well, I

621
01:18:42,208 --> 01:18:43,000
spent three hours recording

622
01:18:43,708 --> 01:18:46,500
one, one episode because I had to re do

623
01:18:46,500 --> 01:18:47,583
it every time. And,

624
01:18:48,041 --> 01:18:49,291
um, and yeah, so I think

625
01:18:49,291 --> 01:18:52,416
you, if you really want to do it, you

626
01:18:52,416 --> 01:18:53,208
figure it out. And

627
01:18:53,208 --> 01:18:54,500
that's, that's just what I do.

628
01:18:54,500 --> 01:18:55,041
I fumble through

629
01:18:55,041 --> 01:18:56,375
things and I figured it out.

630
01:18:56,625 --> 01:18:59,875
Did you have any, like, like, do any,

631
01:18:59,875 --> 01:19:01,500
like, how did you figure out

632
01:19:01,500 --> 01:19:03,166
like how doing like hosting

633
01:19:03,166 --> 01:19:04,625
and doing that type of stuff? How did

634
01:19:04,625 --> 01:19:07,083
you, you just kept doing it

635
01:19:07,083 --> 01:19:08,125
and just figured just try to

636
01:19:08,125 --> 01:19:11,041
improve on what you were doing? Yeah. I,

637
01:19:11,083 --> 01:19:12,500
the, you know, I, I was

638
01:19:12,500 --> 01:19:14,458
always a shy kid growing up. Yeah.

639
01:19:14,458 --> 01:19:15,750
When I got to university, I kind of came

640
01:19:15,750 --> 01:19:16,583
out of my shell, I forced

641
01:19:16,583 --> 01:19:17,666
myself to come out of my shell

642
01:19:17,666 --> 01:19:19,583
a little bit because I was like, I

643
01:19:19,583 --> 01:19:20,958
didn't, I didn't have a good time

644
01:19:20,958 --> 01:19:22,333
socially in high school. Right.

645
01:19:22,375 --> 01:19:24,208
And so when I got to university, I say,

646
01:19:24,416 --> 01:19:25,416
I've got to, I got to be

647
01:19:25,416 --> 01:19:26,500
different. I got to really show my

648
01:19:26,500 --> 01:19:28,000
personality. And so I would just kind of

649
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:28,875
put myself out there and

650
01:19:28,875 --> 01:19:30,041
that's what I did here. And it,

651
01:19:30,041 --> 01:19:32,875
it sucked. Like it was hard at times,

652
01:19:32,875 --> 01:19:34,083
especially a science person,

653
01:19:34,083 --> 01:19:35,375
like a young science person.

654
01:19:36,250 --> 01:19:39,041
I was like, what if someone like Dave

655
01:19:39,041 --> 01:19:41,375
Ebert hates what I say, you know, like,

656
01:19:41,375 --> 01:19:42,375
or what if I'm wrong

657
01:19:42,375 --> 01:19:43,833
and I get, I, you know, I get

658
01:19:43,833 --> 01:19:46,208
excommunicated from, from the science

659
01:19:46,208 --> 01:19:47,375
world, you know, I was very,

660
01:19:47,416 --> 01:19:50,500
I was very concerned about that. But in

661
01:19:50,500 --> 01:19:51,916
terms of my style, it's

662
01:19:51,916 --> 01:19:54,500
always just been, I genuinely want

663
01:19:54,500 --> 01:19:58,291
to know about what I invite this person

664
01:19:58,291 --> 01:19:59,666
on for, right? About their

665
01:19:59,666 --> 01:20:01,291
project, about what they've done

666
01:20:01,291 --> 01:20:02,416
in their lives, what they've

667
01:20:02,416 --> 01:20:04,458
accomplished. I'm, I'm, I'm that

668
01:20:04,458 --> 01:20:06,500
passionate about science and ocean

669
01:20:06,583 --> 01:20:08,541
science and ocean conservation that I

670
01:20:08,541 --> 01:20:10,958
want it up. Like the

671
01:20:10,958 --> 01:20:12,291
questions I'm asking are generally

672
01:20:12,375 --> 01:20:14,250
questions selfishly of what I want to

673
01:20:14,250 --> 01:20:16,833
know. I mean, the style just came from

674
01:20:16,833 --> 01:20:18,541
that. Okay. I mean, can you come across

675
01:20:18,541 --> 01:20:20,166
very polished and, you know,

676
01:20:20,166 --> 01:20:21,541
and like, I'm still kind of stumbling

677
01:20:21,541 --> 01:20:23,333
along trying to figure it out myself

678
01:20:23,333 --> 01:20:25,541
after five years, but, but, you know, you

679
01:20:25,541 --> 01:20:27,208
come across very polished and everything.

680
01:20:27,750 --> 01:20:28,666
And I just want to mention one

681
01:20:28,666 --> 01:20:30,125
caveat to people. It's funny,

682
01:20:30,208 --> 01:20:32,833
people that do these things like you and

683
01:20:32,833 --> 01:20:36,166
me, like I was terribly introverted up

684
01:20:36,166 --> 01:20:37,208
until graduate school.

685
01:20:37,250 --> 01:20:39,625
I mean, I was people that knew me back in

686
01:20:39,625 --> 01:20:41,166
high school and even in college

687
01:20:41,166 --> 01:20:42,625
undergrad. I was just

688
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:46,416
terribly quiet. And what turned it around

689
01:20:46,416 --> 01:20:48,166
for me was when I was doing my masters,

690
01:20:48,916 --> 01:20:49,958
one of my professors,

691
01:20:50,750 --> 01:20:52,208
you know, he said, you know, you got to

692
01:20:52,208 --> 01:20:54,125
be able to communicate to, you know, it

693
01:20:54,125 --> 01:20:55,041
was back in the 80s.

694
01:20:55,041 --> 01:20:56,458
You got to talk to people.

695
01:20:57,166 --> 01:20:58,791
And I said, you know, and I did try it. I

696
01:20:58,791 --> 01:21:01,083
kept taking seminar classes. But what

697
01:21:01,083 --> 01:21:02,750
really turned it around for me was

698
01:21:03,250 --> 01:21:05,750
this professor goes like, okay, Dave, if

699
01:21:05,750 --> 01:21:06,916
I can keep in mind, this is

700
01:21:06,916 --> 01:21:08,250
the 1980s. They said, yeah,

701
01:21:08,416 --> 01:21:10,541
if someone's going to pay you $100 to get

702
01:21:10,541 --> 01:21:11,750
up and talk to that audience, what are

703
01:21:11,750 --> 01:21:12,500
you going to do? I'm like

704
01:21:12,833 --> 01:21:14,583
100 bucks. Hell yeah. I'll get up there

705
01:21:14,583 --> 01:21:16,500
and talk. I just need the right

706
01:21:16,500 --> 01:21:18,166
motivation. Oh, man. And

707
01:21:18,166 --> 01:21:18,833
then it was just suddenly

708
01:21:18,833 --> 01:21:20,750
turned it because what he did was what he

709
01:21:20,750 --> 01:21:21,833
did. I talked. What he did

710
01:21:21,833 --> 01:21:23,958
was it turned like this sort of

711
01:21:24,208 --> 01:21:26,166
introverted shy experience, like, wait,

712
01:21:26,166 --> 01:21:27,291
this is a job. I'm getting

713
01:21:27,291 --> 01:21:29,375
paid. Damn it. Yeah. And so your

714
01:21:29,416 --> 01:21:31,416
mindset's totally different. Well, hell,

715
01:21:31,416 --> 01:21:33,291
I'm going to get up there and talk and do

716
01:21:33,291 --> 01:21:34,666
what I can do. And of course, now it's

717
01:21:34,666 --> 01:21:37,416
completely gone to now I'm doing hosting

718
01:21:37,416 --> 01:21:39,875
a show with you and I'm interviewing you

719
01:21:39,875 --> 01:21:40,916
now for your own podcast.

720
01:21:41,500 --> 01:21:44,333
Yeah, exactly. So I thought it was good

721
01:21:44,333 --> 01:21:46,083
to share with people like, yeah, young

722
01:21:46,083 --> 01:21:47,000
people that might be

723
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:48,000
quiet, you know, it's the right

724
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:49,958
motivation. I think there's also

725
01:21:49,958 --> 01:21:52,250
something to say to I, as I did my math,

726
01:21:52,583 --> 01:21:54,041
like someone who's done his masters

727
01:21:54,041 --> 01:21:54,833
before, and obviously

728
01:21:54,833 --> 01:21:56,708
you've done your master's in your PhD and

729
01:21:56,708 --> 01:21:58,750
had to defend in front of probably the

730
01:21:58,750 --> 01:22:00,208
most intimidating people at

731
01:22:00,208 --> 01:22:01,791
the time that you have, like your

732
01:22:01,791 --> 01:22:04,291
professors, you know, their colleagues,

733
01:22:04,833 --> 01:22:06,291
there's an external professor who comes

734
01:22:06,291 --> 01:22:08,916
in, you know, in person and they and they

735
01:22:08,916 --> 01:22:11,833
travel to come to see you being able to

736
01:22:11,833 --> 01:22:15,541
talk science in front of them and and,

737
01:22:15,541 --> 01:22:16,916
you know, answer their

738
01:22:16,916 --> 01:22:18,791
questions on the research

739
01:22:19,166 --> 01:22:21,458
that I that I was able to do. That's an

740
01:22:21,458 --> 01:22:23,708
intimidating moment. Like, you know,

741
01:22:23,708 --> 01:22:25,208
you're nervous during that moment,

742
01:22:25,208 --> 01:22:26,166
because one, you don't want to look like

743
01:22:26,166 --> 01:22:30,000
a fool. And two, you don't want you don't

744
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:31,416
want them to be disappointed in you,

745
01:22:31,416 --> 01:22:32,458
right? There's a there's that that

746
01:22:32,458 --> 01:22:35,375
mentorship kind of thing. And so I think

747
01:22:35,375 --> 01:22:39,125
my supervisor said it best John Roff, he

748
01:22:39,125 --> 01:22:41,000
said, you know, you know, this even

749
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:42,250
better than they do, you know, this

750
01:22:42,250 --> 01:22:44,333
project better than they do. So they're

751
01:22:44,333 --> 01:22:45,583
just going to ask questions because they

752
01:22:45,583 --> 01:22:47,125
just want to know what you did, you know, so they're not trying to do that.

753
01:22:47,166 --> 01:22:48,583
How do you know about what you did?

754
01:22:48,583 --> 01:22:52,458
They're just trying to understand what

755
01:22:52,458 --> 01:22:53,750
you did. And if you could explain what

756
01:22:53,750 --> 01:22:55,458
you did, you're good, because you've

757
01:22:55,458 --> 01:22:57,416
already done all the work. So now you

758
01:22:57,416 --> 01:22:58,708
just have to talk about the stuff that

759
01:22:58,708 --> 01:23:00,541
you know best and they're just trying to

760
01:23:00,541 --> 01:23:02,250
figure out what you've done. That's it,

761
01:23:02,250 --> 01:23:03,875
you know. And then, of course, there's

762
01:23:03,875 --> 01:23:04,916
the qualifying exam where

763
01:23:04,916 --> 01:23:06,250
they're trying tae like, see how much you

764
01:23:06,250 --> 01:23:09,416
know and dive down deep or those I feel

765
01:23:09,416 --> 01:23:12,375
like those types of tests, those types of

766
01:23:12,375 --> 01:23:15,333
of events kind of hardened you a little

767
01:23:15,333 --> 01:23:16,125
bit as a scientist to be like,

768
01:23:16,166 --> 01:23:17,291
to be like, I'm just

769
01:23:17,291 --> 01:23:18,291
gonna put myself out there

770
01:23:18,291 --> 01:23:19,166
and just see what happens.

771
01:23:19,625 --> 01:23:20,583
If I get critiqued, it's

772
01:23:20,583 --> 01:23:22,666
not personal, sometimes it is,

773
01:23:22,666 --> 01:23:23,958
but you don't take it personally

774
01:23:24,500 --> 01:23:26,291
and you just do what you gotta do.

775
01:23:26,291 --> 01:23:27,875
And I think trying to keep them,

776
01:23:27,875 --> 01:23:29,958
I learned early on to try

777
01:23:29,958 --> 01:23:31,000
and keep the emotion out

778
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:32,166
of being criticized.

779
01:23:32,958 --> 01:23:34,041
Then you realize not that

780
01:23:34,041 --> 01:23:35,291
many people are criticizing you,

781
01:23:35,291 --> 01:23:36,375
not to your face anyway, they're not

782
01:23:36,375 --> 01:23:37,375
telling me about it.

783
01:23:37,625 --> 01:23:39,208
You know, the odd person would be,

784
01:23:39,500 --> 01:23:40,666
but everybody else is like,

785
01:23:40,666 --> 01:23:41,791
this is really informative.

786
01:23:41,791 --> 01:23:43,500
Like I'm really enjoying this show.

787
01:23:43,541 --> 01:23:44,875
And so that made me, that kind

788
01:23:44,875 --> 01:23:46,458
of boosted my confidence too.

789
01:23:46,708 --> 01:23:48,583
I even had a professor like from Guelph

790
01:23:48,583 --> 01:23:49,541
where I would do my undergrad.

791
01:23:50,041 --> 01:23:51,458
I went back to teach or I

792
01:23:51,458 --> 01:23:52,500
went back to talk to people

793
01:23:52,625 --> 01:23:53,958
about careers.

794
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:57,041
And afterwards, he, Professor Robinson,

795
01:23:57,041 --> 01:23:58,125
he came up to me and he said,

796
01:23:58,666 --> 01:24:00,666
how did you learn like to

797
01:24:00,666 --> 01:24:01,666
enter the way you interview?

798
01:24:02,041 --> 01:24:02,750
I'm like, what do you mean?

799
01:24:03,333 --> 01:24:04,500
Like the questions you ask,

800
01:24:04,708 --> 01:24:05,416
like how did you learn

801
01:24:05,416 --> 01:24:06,333
to come up with those?

802
01:24:06,333 --> 01:24:07,791
How did you learn to like ask such

803
01:24:07,791 --> 01:24:08,666
inquisitive questions?

804
01:24:08,875 --> 01:24:10,041
I'm like, and I just

805
01:24:10,041 --> 01:24:11,708
turned up like, you taught me.

806
01:24:12,125 --> 01:24:13,166
And he's like, what do you mean?

807
01:24:13,208 --> 01:24:15,000
I'm like, my professors taught me.

808
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:17,041
Like I'm curious, like

809
01:24:17,041 --> 01:24:18,458
this is being a scientist.

810
01:24:18,708 --> 01:24:19,791
Like you're asking questions

811
01:24:19,916 --> 01:24:21,458
because you generally want to know.

812
01:24:21,875 --> 01:24:22,791
I'm not, I was never

813
01:24:22,791 --> 01:24:24,500
trained as a communicator.

814
01:24:24,500 --> 01:24:26,000
I was never, I don't even think I'm that

815
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:27,000
good of a communicator.

816
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:27,833
Like, like when I look

817
01:24:27,833 --> 01:24:28,875
at my critique myself,

818
01:24:29,541 --> 01:24:30,666
I'm just genuinely interested.

819
01:24:31,333 --> 01:24:32,916
And so I ask questions based on,

820
01:24:32,916 --> 01:24:34,125
sometimes it's based on science,

821
01:24:34,125 --> 01:24:35,250
sometimes it's based on conservation

822
01:24:35,250 --> 01:24:36,500
and all this stuff now

823
01:24:36,500 --> 01:24:37,916
I've done so many interviews

824
01:24:38,458 --> 01:24:40,166
and I have so many different perspectives

825
01:24:40,166 --> 01:24:41,541
and how things are done around the world,

826
01:24:41,625 --> 01:24:43,708
even doing beyond JAWS and

827
01:24:43,708 --> 01:24:45,041
really getting around the world.

828
01:24:45,791 --> 01:24:48,333
Now we're like, okay, like it's done this

829
01:24:48,333 --> 01:24:49,708
way in this country.

830
01:24:50,750 --> 01:24:51,750
Have you ever thought about doing it this

831
01:24:51,750 --> 01:24:53,458
way in our country or wherever?

832
01:24:53,458 --> 01:24:55,291
You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, now

833
01:24:55,291 --> 01:24:56,583
you're just pulling from other things

834
01:24:56,583 --> 01:24:58,666
that kind of hit you at the time.

835
01:24:58,666 --> 01:25:00,833
I kind of find too that like you kind of

836
01:25:00,833 --> 01:25:02,333
like there's that expression about,

837
01:25:02,333 --> 01:25:03,958
you know, you have, if you don't learn

838
01:25:03,958 --> 01:25:05,875
from history, you're doomed to repeat it.

839
01:25:06,041 --> 01:25:06,250
Yeah.

840
01:25:06,625 --> 01:25:08,416
But also I always had, I always had an

841
01:25:08,416 --> 01:25:09,708
interest in history and I always,

842
01:25:10,125 --> 01:25:11,375
I was very fortunate because my

843
01:25:11,375 --> 01:25:12,041
professors would tell

844
01:25:12,041 --> 01:25:14,500
stories about old time,

845
01:25:14,500 --> 01:25:15,666
Nick Theologists, you know,

846
01:25:15,666 --> 01:25:17,458
Dedek Theologists, you know, long gone,

847
01:25:17,458 --> 01:25:19,041
Nick Theology, but they would have a

848
01:25:19,041 --> 01:25:19,666
connection where they

849
01:25:19,666 --> 01:25:21,083
knew these people going back,

850
01:25:21,333 --> 01:25:22,708
you know, it'd be like your grandfather,

851
01:25:22,916 --> 01:25:24,500
great grandfather, and I just used to

852
01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:25,583
enjoy the stories here.

853
01:25:25,583 --> 01:25:27,250
Like, what was this person really like?

854
01:25:27,791 --> 01:25:28,000
Yes.

855
01:25:28,583 --> 01:25:29,500
And, and what kind of

856
01:25:29,500 --> 01:25:30,416
motivated to do this stuff.

857
01:25:30,416 --> 01:25:31,500
So I always found that interesting.

858
01:25:31,500 --> 01:25:32,916
And then some of the

859
01:25:32,916 --> 01:25:34,666
journals I subscribe to, they,

860
01:25:34,666 --> 01:25:36,083
they run these stories on.

861
01:25:36,500 --> 01:25:37,125
Unfortunately, it's

862
01:25:37,125 --> 01:25:38,416
usually after they pass away,

863
01:25:38,791 --> 01:25:40,166
you know, the life history.

864
01:25:40,166 --> 01:25:42,083
And I, I know this guy just wrote a, I've

865
01:25:42,083 --> 01:25:43,583
written a few of these obituaries for

866
01:25:43,583 --> 01:25:46,041
Leonard Campano, my, my advisor.

867
01:25:46,916 --> 01:25:49,166
And, um, and I kind of felt like when

868
01:25:49,166 --> 01:25:51,041
this gets into where I got to know you,

869
01:25:51,708 --> 01:25:52,458
we came up with this

870
01:25:52,458 --> 01:25:53,666
idea with the beyond jaws.

871
01:25:53,666 --> 01:25:55,583
It was really just to kind of tell, get

872
01:25:55,583 --> 01:25:57,375
instead of me telling

873
01:25:57,375 --> 01:25:58,583
the story about, oh, yeah,

874
01:25:58,583 --> 01:26:00,041
so and so, you know, it was to get the

875
01:26:00,041 --> 01:26:02,416
people actually on the podcast to tell

876
01:26:02,416 --> 01:26:04,041
their story in their words.

877
01:26:04,458 --> 01:26:04,625
Yep.

878
01:26:05,166 --> 01:26:06,541
And I think that's, I think

879
01:26:06,541 --> 01:26:07,916
again, young people, you know,

880
01:26:07,958 --> 01:26:09,333
I don't know how you feel, but I think

881
01:26:09,333 --> 01:26:11,750
it's great to be able to talk to someone

882
01:26:11,750 --> 01:26:14,541
who maybe you didn't know that person,

883
01:26:14,750 --> 01:26:15,708
but you're, you're a

884
01:26:15,708 --> 01:26:17,041
connection or conduit to it.

885
01:26:17,041 --> 01:26:17,291
Oh, yeah.

886
01:26:17,291 --> 01:26:18,833
I knew that person and I

887
01:26:18,833 --> 01:26:20,333
went and talked to, you know,

888
01:26:20,666 --> 01:26:22,166
a hundred percent, like there are people

889
01:26:22,166 --> 01:26:25,000
that I've looked up to my entire career

890
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:27,500
who have recently passed away and that

891
01:26:27,500 --> 01:26:30,333
have had an impact on my career.

892
01:26:30,625 --> 01:26:34,000
Uh, and, and so as a podcaster now, I'm

893
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:36,916
like, how do I memorialize what they did

894
01:26:36,916 --> 01:26:38,625
for me or what they did for other people

895
01:26:38,625 --> 01:26:41,625
and what type of person they are, you

896
01:26:41,625 --> 01:26:43,083
know, in the way I do is I we've got

897
01:26:43,083 --> 01:26:44,416
this, we've got these platforms.

898
01:26:44,416 --> 01:26:45,333
We got how to protect the ocean.

899
01:26:45,333 --> 01:26:47,000
We got beyond jaws, you know, we were

900
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:49,458
able to speak to Jeff carrier, you know,

901
01:26:49,458 --> 01:26:51,500
on, on the podcast and people can see

902
01:26:51,500 --> 01:26:54,250
what he's like, you know, on the podcast

903
01:26:54,250 --> 01:26:56,291
to just be able to talk to him and, and,

904
01:26:56,291 --> 01:26:57,166
and, and hear from him.

905
01:26:57,208 --> 01:26:59,208
And I thought, you know, once that went

906
01:26:59,208 --> 01:27:01,833
on, unfortunately, when he passed as, as

907
01:27:01,833 --> 01:27:03,583
sad as we were, we're like, Hey, you

908
01:27:03,583 --> 01:27:05,083
know, people get to know who he is

909
01:27:05,083 --> 01:27:07,750
through that podcast, you know, so like

910
01:27:07,750 --> 01:27:08,833
for people are like, Hey, have you ever

911
01:27:08,833 --> 01:27:09,625
heard of Jeff carrier?

912
01:27:09,625 --> 01:27:09,875
No.

913
01:27:10,250 --> 01:27:10,541
Okay.

914
01:27:10,541 --> 01:27:12,166
We'll go over here that he did a whole

915
01:27:12,166 --> 01:27:14,500
interview, you know, and I just think

916
01:27:14,500 --> 01:27:15,625
that's, I think there's, there's

917
01:27:15,625 --> 01:27:16,625
something to say about that.

918
01:27:16,625 --> 01:27:18,000
It's that frame of reference.

919
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:19,541
You know, we always talk about in science

920
01:27:19,541 --> 01:27:21,166
where it's like, you know, use the coral

921
01:27:21,166 --> 01:27:23,041
reef kind of reference where it's like

922
01:27:23,041 --> 01:27:24,958
coral reefs in the fifties were a lot

923
01:27:24,958 --> 01:27:25,958
different than what we see here.

924
01:27:26,083 --> 01:27:28,541
But you know, growing up in, in, you

925
01:27:28,541 --> 01:27:30,291
know, the 90s, the eighties, nineties and

926
01:27:30,291 --> 01:27:32,208
two thousands, we think of a different

927
01:27:32,208 --> 01:27:33,416
type of brief, right?

928
01:27:33,416 --> 01:27:35,208
But we think that is what the reference

929
01:27:35,208 --> 01:27:36,708
reef is instead of the fifties and

930
01:27:36,708 --> 01:27:37,916
sixties reefs where they were

931
01:27:37,916 --> 01:27:39,000
probably a lot more abundant.

932
01:27:39,208 --> 01:27:40,166
Well, you know, one of the people we had

933
01:27:40,166 --> 01:27:41,875
on, you know, like Eugenie Clark is very

934
01:27:41,875 --> 01:27:42,875
well known in the field.

935
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:44,708
She has an award for the, through the

936
01:27:44,708 --> 01:27:45,916
American labs that breaks aside.

937
01:27:46,125 --> 01:27:48,416
And I guarantee you most, because I've

938
01:27:48,416 --> 01:27:49,708
asked all the ones we've had on there,

939
01:27:49,708 --> 01:27:51,083
they didn't know like someone like Gavin

940
01:27:51,083 --> 01:27:52,333
Naylor, who was on the

941
01:27:52,333 --> 01:27:54,208
podcast was a student of hers.

942
01:27:54,458 --> 01:27:54,833
Yeah.

943
01:27:54,875 --> 01:27:56,333
And if you go back and listen to the

944
01:27:56,333 --> 01:27:57,958
podcast, which was one of the first ones

945
01:27:57,958 --> 01:28:00,250
we did with Gavin, he talks about what it

946
01:28:00,250 --> 01:28:01,708
was like to be a student of genies.

947
01:28:02,541 --> 01:28:02,750
Yeah.

948
01:28:02,875 --> 01:28:04,375
So like, and so I hear you get a

949
01:28:04,375 --> 01:28:06,333
firsthand account, you know, you hear

950
01:28:06,333 --> 01:28:07,916
about Eugenie Clark's name a lot.

951
01:28:08,125 --> 01:28:10,583
Well, here you hear someone and get, you

952
01:28:10,583 --> 01:28:12,000
know, Gavin still goes to the meetings.

953
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:13,375
If you see him at the meeting, I'm sure

954
01:28:13,375 --> 01:28:14,458
if you buy him a beer, he'll tell you all

955
01:28:14,458 --> 01:28:15,750
about Jeanie Clark and everything.

956
01:28:16,583 --> 01:28:18,041
And of course, there's been many others,

957
01:28:18,041 --> 01:28:18,833
but she's, it was a

958
01:28:18,833 --> 01:28:19,958
very prominent person.

959
01:28:20,833 --> 01:28:23,500
And, um, and I mean, I knew her as I knew

960
01:28:23,500 --> 01:28:24,833
her, but I wasn't a student of hers.

961
01:28:24,833 --> 01:28:26,333
Gavin actually was a student of hers.

962
01:28:26,750 --> 01:28:28,500
And so you can talk about some of these

963
01:28:28,500 --> 01:28:29,875
people like in a first person, like,

964
01:28:29,875 --> 01:28:30,125
well, what would she

965
01:28:30,125 --> 01:28:31,500
like to have as an advisor?

966
01:28:32,291 --> 01:28:33,583
And so I think that's the kind of stuff I

967
01:28:33,583 --> 01:28:35,458
would think like, like with this year

968
01:28:35,458 --> 01:28:37,375
podcast and with the podcast we're doing

969
01:28:37,375 --> 01:28:40,166
with Beyond Jaws is sharing those stories

970
01:28:40,166 --> 01:28:42,250
of the people that have kind of come

971
01:28:42,250 --> 01:28:43,666
before us and even

972
01:28:43,666 --> 01:28:44,791
some in the moment now.

973
01:28:45,375 --> 01:28:47,291
Well, and to be honest, that, that

974
01:28:47,291 --> 01:28:48,916
customer, like one of my next points

975
01:28:48,916 --> 01:28:50,875
that, that has kind of led me to where I

976
01:28:50,875 --> 01:28:53,083
am is, is meeting all these people.

977
01:28:53,875 --> 01:28:54,000
Yeah.

978
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:55,208
You know, it's amazing.

979
01:28:55,750 --> 01:28:58,666
The response you get when you send out an

980
01:28:58,666 --> 01:29:00,750
email or you send a message or a DM and

981
01:29:00,750 --> 01:29:01,958
be like, Hey, I would love

982
01:29:01,958 --> 01:29:03,375
to feature you on my podcast.

983
01:29:03,375 --> 01:29:04,125
I love your project.

984
01:29:04,541 --> 01:29:05,958
You know, I've been following your career

985
01:29:05,958 --> 01:29:07,708
for a while or just recently.

986
01:29:08,291 --> 01:29:09,333
I love what you're doing.

987
01:29:09,333 --> 01:29:10,000
I would love to

988
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:11,083
promote you on the podcast.

989
01:29:11,458 --> 01:29:12,041
And then you just

990
01:29:12,041 --> 01:29:13,125
have a fun conversation.

991
01:29:13,916 --> 01:29:15,958
And then it's not just as Dave, as you

992
01:29:15,958 --> 01:29:17,791
know, because this is how we met, not

993
01:29:17,791 --> 01:29:20,541
just the conversation on the podcast, the

994
01:29:20,541 --> 01:29:23,291
recording, it's the two hour conversation

995
01:29:23,291 --> 01:29:26,125
after, you know, where you really get to

996
01:29:26,125 --> 01:29:28,833
know the person where you start to really

997
01:29:28,833 --> 01:29:30,916
dive into who that and, you know, there's

998
01:29:30,916 --> 01:29:32,541
certain people I jive with really well.

999
01:29:32,541 --> 01:29:34,166
And there's others that just they have to

1000
01:29:34,166 --> 01:29:35,916
leave and it's, you know, then I thank

1001
01:29:35,916 --> 01:29:37,166
them very much and it's great.

1002
01:29:37,166 --> 01:29:38,500
And they have, they've done a great job

1003
01:29:38,500 --> 01:29:40,583
on the interview and, and it's wonderful.

1004
01:29:40,583 --> 01:29:42,375
But it's that connection that you make.

1005
01:29:42,458 --> 01:29:46,000
And then I continue to have them on my

1006
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:46,916
network on LinkedIn,

1007
01:29:47,416 --> 01:29:49,208
on Instagram, on TikTok.

1008
01:29:49,208 --> 01:29:51,083
We're talking, we're, we're working on

1009
01:29:51,083 --> 01:29:53,333
these volunteer projects together or we

1010
01:29:53,333 --> 01:29:54,625
do the podcast together.

1011
01:29:54,791 --> 01:29:57,166
You know, there's just so many ways that

1012
01:29:57,166 --> 01:29:59,458
the opportunities have come just from

1013
01:29:59,458 --> 01:30:01,500
having people on as a guest and doing

1014
01:30:01,500 --> 01:30:03,000
them a favor and just being like, I

1015
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:04,333
really like the stuff you're doing.

1016
01:30:04,750 --> 01:30:05,458
I would love it.

1017
01:30:05,458 --> 01:30:06,541
Just, I'd love to share it with this

1018
01:30:06,541 --> 01:30:07,916
little audience that I've built.

1019
01:30:07,916 --> 01:30:08,375
Yeah.

1020
01:30:08,375 --> 01:30:09,083
You know, oh yeah.

1021
01:30:09,125 --> 01:30:11,000
Well, and I can attest that because

1022
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:12,208
because I had never, you were the first

1023
01:30:12,208 --> 01:30:13,250
podcast they ever did.

1024
01:30:13,250 --> 01:30:13,500
Yes.

1025
01:30:13,500 --> 01:30:14,208
You guys me on a week.

1026
01:30:14,750 --> 01:30:15,625
I think we spent two

1027
01:30:15,625 --> 01:30:17,041
hours talking about sports.

1028
01:30:17,041 --> 01:30:18,458
Then we did the podcast and we spent

1029
01:30:18,458 --> 01:30:20,708
another two hours talking about sports.

1030
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:21,291
Yeah.

1031
01:30:21,583 --> 01:30:23,416
And, um, and then we ended up doing a

1032
01:30:23,416 --> 01:30:24,708
shark podcast and we should really

1033
01:30:24,708 --> 01:30:26,416
probably be doing a sports podcast, but

1034
01:30:26,416 --> 01:30:29,166
that'll be later on at a time.

1035
01:30:29,166 --> 01:30:30,083
Dave, we have no more

1036
01:30:30,083 --> 01:30:31,416
times with all these podcasts.

1037
01:30:31,708 --> 01:30:32,250
Oh, I know.

1038
01:30:32,250 --> 01:30:32,750
I know.

1039
01:30:32,750 --> 01:30:34,000
And I want to, I want to say one thing

1040
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:37,166
and I can, Andrew mentioned this, but I

1041
01:30:37,166 --> 01:30:39,000
can't, I tell you, he, this guy,

1042
01:30:39,083 --> 01:30:42,083
works his tail off because I'll I'm on

1043
01:30:42,083 --> 01:30:43,791
the West coast out here in California and

1044
01:30:43,791 --> 01:30:45,875
he's, he's in the East coast in Toronto

1045
01:30:45,875 --> 01:30:47,291
and like we'll, we'll

1046
01:30:47,291 --> 01:30:48,208
be what's happening.

1047
01:30:48,208 --> 01:30:49,916
It'll be like nine o'clock my time.

1048
01:30:49,916 --> 01:30:51,208
And he's, I think he's gone to bed.

1049
01:30:51,208 --> 01:30:52,208
He's still what's happening.

1050
01:30:52,208 --> 01:30:52,708
I've still got to

1051
01:30:52,708 --> 01:30:53,916
record a show here and there.

1052
01:30:53,916 --> 01:30:55,416
And I'm thinking like, dude, you got to

1053
01:30:55,416 --> 01:30:56,250
get up in a few hours

1054
01:30:56,250 --> 01:30:57,208
and actually go to work.

1055
01:30:57,750 --> 01:31:00,333
And so he's, you, it takes a dedication

1056
01:31:00,333 --> 01:31:02,500
and a passion to be able to, to do that.

1057
01:31:02,500 --> 01:31:04,166
Kind of come home from a day's job and

1058
01:31:04,166 --> 01:31:06,500
then saddle up and just do a whole spend

1059
01:31:06,500 --> 01:31:07,416
the night working on

1060
01:31:07,416 --> 01:31:09,000
your podcast or podcast.

1061
01:31:09,583 --> 01:31:10,333
That you're doing.

1062
01:31:10,708 --> 01:31:10,833
Yeah.

1063
01:31:10,833 --> 01:31:11,000
Yeah.

1064
01:31:12,166 --> 01:31:14,458
People underestimate how much work it is,

1065
01:31:14,875 --> 01:31:15,916
you know, when, when you're doing a

1066
01:31:15,916 --> 01:31:18,458
podcast that regularly, um, like I'm at,

1067
01:31:18,458 --> 01:31:19,875
I'm over 1900 episodes

1068
01:31:19,875 --> 01:31:20,916
to give people context.

1069
01:31:21,125 --> 01:31:22,291
I think I've mentioned on this podcast

1070
01:31:22,291 --> 01:31:23,416
before we've mentioned on the other

1071
01:31:23,416 --> 01:31:25,750
podcasts and we're, I think over a

1072
01:31:25,750 --> 01:31:27,500
hundred on like, but we do

1073
01:31:27,500 --> 01:31:28,833
once, once every two weeks.

1074
01:31:28,833 --> 01:31:30,375
So we're, we've done a lot as well.

1075
01:31:30,916 --> 01:31:32,666
Uh, not even counting how many interviews

1076
01:31:32,666 --> 01:31:34,041
we've actually done because there's still

1077
01:31:34,041 --> 01:31:35,458
the guitar fish, wedgefish,

1078
01:31:35,458 --> 01:31:37,583
symposium still getting over.

1079
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:38,208
Yeah.

1080
01:31:38,250 --> 01:31:39,375
Those interviews for

1081
01:31:39,375 --> 01:31:40,833
interviews per episode.

1082
01:31:41,083 --> 01:31:41,291
Yeah.

1083
01:31:41,666 --> 01:31:44,541
Um, but, but you know, it's, it's, you

1084
01:31:44,541 --> 01:31:46,750
know, when people look at what's needed

1085
01:31:46,750 --> 01:31:49,625
to be done, there's, there's, you know,

1086
01:31:49,625 --> 01:31:50,625
especially if you have an interview,

1087
01:31:51,125 --> 01:31:52,458
there's, you, you reach out to the

1088
01:31:52,458 --> 01:31:54,125
person, person says, yes.

1089
01:31:54,708 --> 01:31:55,875
You do your research.

1090
01:31:56,083 --> 01:31:57,833
You come up with a set of questions.

1091
01:31:58,416 --> 01:32:01,666
Um, you do a little pre-interview right

1092
01:32:01,666 --> 01:32:03,625
before you record, you record the

1093
01:32:03,625 --> 01:32:04,166
interview that takes

1094
01:32:04,166 --> 01:32:05,583
like 45 minutes to an hour.

1095
01:32:06,166 --> 01:32:09,666
Uh, afterwards you talk maybe an hour or

1096
01:32:09,666 --> 01:32:11,958
two, um, you know, or a half hour,

1097
01:32:11,958 --> 01:32:12,833
depending on the person.

1098
01:32:13,333 --> 01:32:14,833
Uh, and then after that

1099
01:32:14,833 --> 01:32:16,291
you have to process it.

1100
01:32:16,541 --> 01:32:17,833
You have to edit it.

1101
01:32:17,833 --> 01:32:19,583
You have to put it together, maybe do an

1102
01:32:19,583 --> 01:32:20,625
intro and outro to it.

1103
01:32:20,625 --> 01:32:21,500
If it's a solo show, you

1104
01:32:21,500 --> 01:32:22,416
just do it in one shot.

1105
01:32:23,041 --> 01:32:24,000
Then you have to go

1106
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:24,875
through the processing.

1107
01:32:24,875 --> 01:32:26,000
You have to come up with a transcript.

1108
01:32:26,208 --> 01:32:27,541
You have to do the show

1109
01:32:27,541 --> 01:32:28,791
notes, the blog posts.

1110
01:32:29,083 --> 01:32:29,958
You have to do the social

1111
01:32:29,958 --> 01:32:32,000
media posts, a newsletter.

1112
01:32:32,500 --> 01:32:35,333
Um, you know, there could now with the

1113
01:32:35,333 --> 01:32:37,291
YouTube component and everything, it

1114
01:32:37,291 --> 01:32:40,208
takes hours, you know, now obviously I

1115
01:32:40,208 --> 01:32:41,666
do, I do it on my own.

1116
01:32:42,333 --> 01:32:43,291
I do have an editor now

1117
01:32:43,291 --> 01:32:45,083
because of the, the, the videos.

1118
01:32:45,625 --> 01:32:49,208
Um, but you know, it's, it's allows like,

1119
01:32:49,625 --> 01:32:52,000
and I use a lot of AI to help me with,

1120
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:52,666
with processing

1121
01:32:52,666 --> 01:32:55,166
everything, uh, to give time back.

1122
01:32:55,458 --> 01:32:57,333
You know, I, I want, like I'm at a point

1123
01:32:57,333 --> 01:33:00,458
now in my life where I want time back in

1124
01:33:00,458 --> 01:33:02,291
my evenings, you know, so I can relax.

1125
01:33:02,375 --> 01:33:02,875
I'm getting older.

1126
01:33:03,250 --> 01:33:03,958
I'm almost 48.

1127
01:33:04,750 --> 01:33:06,500
You know, it's, I want my time back.

1128
01:33:06,500 --> 01:33:08,041
I know, I know, I know.

1129
01:33:08,375 --> 01:33:11,291
I don't even go there, man.

1130
01:33:11,500 --> 01:33:12,916
But you, but, but Dave,

1131
01:33:12,916 --> 01:33:13,541
I'll tell you something.

1132
01:33:13,541 --> 01:33:14,541
Like you work your butt off.

1133
01:33:14,791 --> 01:33:17,416
I, I'll give you that, but you also, you

1134
01:33:17,416 --> 01:33:18,500
enjoy your time with

1135
01:33:18,500 --> 01:33:19,625
your family and your folks.

1136
01:33:19,625 --> 01:33:20,916
You enjoy your time swimming.

1137
01:33:21,166 --> 01:33:23,416
You enjoy, like as I think at sometimes

1138
01:33:23,416 --> 01:33:26,958
as, as marine biologists, uh, we tend to

1139
01:33:26,958 --> 01:33:29,916
burn ourselves out a lot by doing all

1140
01:33:29,916 --> 01:33:30,958
these passion projects

1141
01:33:30,958 --> 01:33:32,208
or doing stuff for free.

1142
01:33:32,250 --> 01:33:34,166
Or for you, Dave, like, you know, people

1143
01:33:34,166 --> 01:33:35,208
email you all the time.

1144
01:33:35,208 --> 01:33:36,333
Like, Hey, I found this.

1145
01:33:36,333 --> 01:33:37,916
Like, can you help me identify it?

1146
01:33:37,916 --> 01:33:38,500
That kind of stuff.

1147
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:40,625
Um, you know, other projects that you do

1148
01:33:40,625 --> 01:33:41,625
workshops and everything.

1149
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:43,250
I know that of course the travel.

1150
01:33:43,250 --> 01:33:44,708
So it's like, when we have the downtime,

1151
01:33:44,708 --> 01:33:46,875
I've realized, you know, at my age that

1152
01:33:46,875 --> 01:33:48,166
downtime is really important.

1153
01:33:48,666 --> 01:33:51,125
Um, and, and you know, I, I tell that to

1154
01:33:51,125 --> 01:33:52,125
young marine biologists too.

1155
01:33:52,125 --> 01:33:53,333
It's like, yeah, get your work done.

1156
01:33:53,333 --> 01:33:55,083
If you want, you know, build your skills,

1157
01:33:55,083 --> 01:33:56,833
do that what you need, but also don't

1158
01:33:56,833 --> 01:33:59,458
forget to enjoy, enjoy yourself too.

1159
01:33:59,458 --> 01:34:00,541
Like having some downtime.

1160
01:34:00,541 --> 01:34:01,875
If I was going to say one other thing,

1161
01:34:01,875 --> 01:34:04,000
I'd say too, at my age is that

1162
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:07,458
reinventing yourself and like in my case,

1163
01:34:07,458 --> 01:34:09,791
getting into this, um, uh, doing this

1164
01:34:09,791 --> 01:34:12,625
science communication, the podcast and

1165
01:34:12,625 --> 01:34:13,958
the stuff I've been doing with you.

1166
01:34:14,541 --> 01:34:18,458
Um, I, if you had asked me 20 years ago,

1167
01:34:18,458 --> 01:34:20,416
even when I was, when I was your age, I'd

1168
01:34:20,416 --> 01:34:21,625
have been like, I was

1169
01:34:21,625 --> 01:34:22,958
just pretty much the science.

1170
01:34:22,958 --> 01:34:23,625
That's what it was.

1171
01:34:23,916 --> 01:34:24,083
Yeah.

1172
01:34:24,083 --> 01:34:25,666
I mean, the landscapes changed a lot

1173
01:34:25,666 --> 01:34:26,250
because they're never,

1174
01:34:26,250 --> 01:34:27,125
there wasn't really this.

1175
01:34:27,583 --> 01:34:29,541
The opportunities with the different

1176
01:34:29,541 --> 01:34:31,000
platforms now, but I

1177
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:32,500
was pretty much hardcore.

1178
01:34:32,875 --> 01:34:33,416
I love doing the science.

1179
01:34:33,666 --> 01:34:35,125
I mean, I hate to use the

1180
01:34:35,125 --> 01:34:36,416
term hardcore, but I loved it.

1181
01:34:36,416 --> 01:34:36,791
I mean, I was just

1182
01:34:36,791 --> 01:34:38,291
excited about it every day.

1183
01:34:38,291 --> 01:34:39,000
I was like, oh wow, I'm

1184
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:40,125
going to go, let's see.

1185
01:34:40,125 --> 01:34:41,041
I'm going to discover today.

1186
01:34:41,041 --> 01:34:41,958
It's Christmas again.

1187
01:34:41,958 --> 01:34:42,083
Yes.

1188
01:34:42,333 --> 01:34:43,000
Every day.

1189
01:34:43,541 --> 01:34:46,291
Um, but I also found, you know, it's

1190
01:34:46,291 --> 01:34:48,791
like, is I kind of advanced in my career.

1191
01:34:48,791 --> 01:34:50,583
I get to point where it's like, well, do

1192
01:34:50,583 --> 01:34:52,791
I need to do another, you know, whatever

1193
01:34:52,791 --> 01:34:54,541
publications or this and that?

1194
01:34:54,541 --> 01:34:55,500
I still enjoy doing that.

1195
01:34:55,500 --> 01:34:58,708
But I find learning a whole new area,

1196
01:34:58,708 --> 01:35:00,333
like the science communication thing.

1197
01:35:00,375 --> 01:35:01,375
I've kind of been on this

1198
01:35:01,375 --> 01:35:02,416
journey with you really.

1199
01:35:02,958 --> 01:35:03,000
Yeah.

1200
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:04,875
It's just been a really exciting to me

1201
01:35:04,875 --> 01:35:06,208
because it's like, it's

1202
01:35:06,208 --> 01:35:07,250
just a whole something new.

1203
01:35:07,708 --> 01:35:08,500
It's a challenge.

1204
01:35:09,250 --> 01:35:10,500
It is to learn this stuff.

1205
01:35:10,500 --> 01:35:11,250
And it really, and I can

1206
01:35:11,250 --> 01:35:13,208
tell you it, it's a lot of work.

1207
01:35:13,208 --> 01:35:14,666
If people listening out there, like, oh,

1208
01:35:14,666 --> 01:35:15,208
if you think you're like,

1209
01:35:15,208 --> 01:35:16,083
I'll go start a podcast.

1210
01:35:16,541 --> 01:35:17,625
It's a lot of work.

1211
01:35:17,625 --> 01:35:19,458
And I don't do a fraction of what Andrew

1212
01:35:19,458 --> 01:35:20,958
does, but I can tell you for the, just

1213
01:35:20,958 --> 01:35:22,500
doing our, our beyond

1214
01:35:22,541 --> 01:35:25,291
jaws podcast, it's a, it's a, it's a

1215
01:35:25,291 --> 01:35:27,458
passion project now because I really

1216
01:35:27,458 --> 01:35:28,750
enjoy it, but it's,

1217
01:35:28,750 --> 01:35:30,458
it's not, it's not easy.

1218
01:35:30,458 --> 01:35:31,416
And it takes time to do.

1219
01:35:31,416 --> 01:35:33,000
And I think you told me this, Andrew,

1220
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,041
like most podcasts are maybe, maybe get

1221
01:35:35,041 --> 01:35:36,916
10 episodes tops out of that.

1222
01:35:37,166 --> 01:35:37,458
Yeah.

1223
01:35:37,458 --> 01:35:38,833
If that, yeah.

1224
01:35:38,833 --> 01:35:40,541
And you know, we're, we're up around,

1225
01:35:40,541 --> 01:35:42,625
think about almost about 150 episodes now

1226
01:35:42,625 --> 01:35:43,666
for the beyond jaws.

1227
01:35:44,041 --> 01:35:46,083
So it's not, again, we got a long ways to

1228
01:35:46,083 --> 01:35:47,833
catch up to your other show, but, but,

1229
01:35:47,833 --> 01:35:49,500
but consider we started from nothing.

1230
01:35:49,541 --> 01:35:52,208
It was a concept and an idea really.

1231
01:35:52,791 --> 01:35:57,166
And, and it is, I think, I think the, the

1232
01:35:57,166 --> 01:35:59,000
thing I always, I, I, I

1233
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:00,250
always go by the mantra.

1234
01:36:00,250 --> 01:36:01,625
It's like, I'm going

1235
01:36:01,625 --> 01:36:02,958
to work everybody else.

1236
01:36:03,541 --> 01:36:03,708
Yeah.

1237
01:36:03,708 --> 01:36:05,333
I may not have the best skill set.

1238
01:36:05,333 --> 01:36:07,666
I may not have the, the, the, I may not

1239
01:36:07,666 --> 01:36:08,958
be the most intelligent person in the

1240
01:36:08,958 --> 01:36:10,916
room, but I'm going to be, I'm going to

1241
01:36:10,916 --> 01:36:12,208
work the heck out of you.

1242
01:36:12,500 --> 01:36:14,000
And I learned that at a young age playing

1243
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:15,750
football is I can outwork you.

1244
01:36:16,166 --> 01:36:18,083
And if I outwork you, then I'm going to,

1245
01:36:18,083 --> 01:36:20,333
I'm going to have a one up on you, you

1246
01:36:20,333 --> 01:36:21,500
know, and it's going to

1247
01:36:21,500 --> 01:36:23,416
benefit me in every way.

1248
01:36:24,083 --> 01:36:26,250
And, and I think, you know, you talk, you

1249
01:36:26,250 --> 01:36:27,500
talk about doing the pivot.

1250
01:36:28,083 --> 01:36:30,041
I, I, I've pivoted a few times.

1251
01:36:30,375 --> 01:36:32,083
I didn't know after my master's didn't

1252
01:36:32,083 --> 01:36:32,791
know where I was going to

1253
01:36:32,791 --> 01:36:34,250
fit in coming home to Ontario.

1254
01:36:34,708 --> 01:36:36,333
I didn't know where, if I was ever going

1255
01:36:36,333 --> 01:36:37,458
to find something I liked it.

1256
01:36:37,458 --> 01:36:39,708
Like I said, I did the, the, the Marine

1257
01:36:39,708 --> 01:36:41,958
consulting or the environmental

1258
01:36:41,958 --> 01:36:43,750
consulting didn't love it.

1259
01:36:44,291 --> 01:36:46,833
I, you know, went into, I worked a little

1260
01:36:46,833 --> 01:36:48,791
bit nonprofit, like when German masters

1261
01:36:48,791 --> 01:36:50,000
and it was fun, but

1262
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:51,458
like it doesn't pay much.

1263
01:36:52,125 --> 01:36:54,083
It's hard to have a, like to have a

1264
01:36:54,083 --> 01:36:55,916
family on those types of salaries and

1265
01:36:55,916 --> 01:36:57,750
live in the area that we live in.

1266
01:36:57,750 --> 01:36:59,041
We live in a very expensive area in

1267
01:36:59,041 --> 01:37:01,166
Southern Ontario or not very expensive,

1268
01:37:01,166 --> 01:37:03,000
but it's, it's, it's, it's tough to live.

1269
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:04,333
Like we got in at the right time.

1270
01:37:04,333 --> 01:37:06,166
Let's just say, you know, nowadays, I

1271
01:37:06,166 --> 01:37:07,875
don't know if I can afford a home if I

1272
01:37:07,875 --> 01:37:08,666
was starting out today.

1273
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:10,166
I don't think many of us could, but

1274
01:37:10,166 --> 01:37:13,125
regardless, you know, they're, they're,

1275
01:37:13,166 --> 01:37:31,875
They're, they're, they're their, they're their, they're sh

1276
01:37:31,875 --> 01:37:33,166
get really good at it.

1277
01:37:40,250 --> 01:37:41,791
I don't even go talk to my wife about it.

1278
01:37:41,791 --> 01:37:42,416
My wife will be like,

1279
01:37:42,416 --> 01:37:43,500
"Oh my God, here he goes."

1280
01:37:43,500 --> 01:37:44,875
Like, he's ready to talk about it.

1281
01:37:44,875 --> 01:37:46,125
He's ready to talk about science.

1282
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:48,708
But yeah, like I get super excited

1283
01:37:48,875 --> 01:37:49,625
because it's something new.

1284
01:37:50,125 --> 01:37:50,750
Especially when I get to

1285
01:37:50,750 --> 01:37:52,000
talk to either, you know,

1286
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:52,416
colleagues that have

1287
01:37:52,416 --> 01:37:53,291
come on a number of times

1288
01:37:53,458 --> 01:37:54,791
or, you know, with people

1289
01:37:54,791 --> 01:37:56,500
that I'm just first meeting

1290
01:37:56,625 --> 01:37:58,000
and getting to know their projects.

1291
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,041
It's an exciting time for me to do it.

1292
01:38:00,625 --> 01:38:01,708
And so it was like,

1293
01:38:01,958 --> 01:38:03,208
once I found that out,

1294
01:38:03,208 --> 01:38:04,583
once I figured that out,

1295
01:38:04,875 --> 01:38:06,583
I started to tell myself,

1296
01:38:06,583 --> 01:38:07,166
I'm like, this is what

1297
01:38:07,166 --> 01:38:09,166
I wanna do, you know,

1298
01:38:09,458 --> 01:38:12,625
in marine, this is where I'm gonna excel.

1299
01:38:12,625 --> 01:38:13,875
And I didn't know if it

1300
01:38:13,875 --> 01:38:14,791
was gonna be continuing

1301
01:38:14,791 --> 01:38:16,625
with the podcast on my own and building

1302
01:38:16,625 --> 01:38:17,708
that out as a business,

1303
01:38:17,708 --> 01:38:18,416
which I didn't know how

1304
01:38:18,416 --> 01:38:19,708
to do at any point in time.

1305
01:38:20,166 --> 01:38:21,666
I don't have Joe Rogan numbers.

1306
01:38:21,666 --> 01:38:22,791
I don't wanna be Joe Rogan,

1307
01:38:22,791 --> 01:38:24,291
but I don't have Joe Rogan numbers,

1308
01:38:25,333 --> 01:38:26,416
who's the highest, like,

1309
01:38:26,541 --> 01:38:27,416
he's probably the person

1310
01:38:27,416 --> 01:38:28,291
who gets the most

1311
01:38:28,291 --> 01:38:31,000
podcast downloads per episode.

1312
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:34,000
But I also, like, I

1313
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:35,125
really liked doing this.

1314
01:38:35,125 --> 01:38:36,250
So I didn't know if that was gonna be it,

1315
01:38:36,250 --> 01:38:36,875
or if I was gonna

1316
01:38:36,875 --> 01:38:38,875
find a job with somebody.

1317
01:38:38,875 --> 01:38:40,791
And I have applied to a lot

1318
01:38:40,791 --> 01:38:42,583
of science communication jobs

1319
01:38:42,708 --> 01:38:43,375
over the years.

1320
01:38:44,041 --> 01:38:45,375
And I don't know if it was just,

1321
01:38:47,291 --> 01:38:47,958
I didn't communicate

1322
01:38:47,958 --> 01:38:49,541
well what I do, or people,

1323
01:38:50,458 --> 01:38:51,875
I also wonder if the

1324
01:38:51,875 --> 01:38:53,083
marine conservation world

1325
01:38:54,291 --> 01:38:55,458
don't really have an understanding

1326
01:38:55,458 --> 01:38:57,541
of how powerful podcasting is

1327
01:38:57,541 --> 01:39:00,833
in a way for marine science,

1328
01:39:01,125 --> 01:39:02,458
right, and for science in general.

1329
01:39:03,083 --> 01:39:05,750
If I can speak from just having gone,

1330
01:39:05,750 --> 01:39:06,208
I've kind of

1331
01:39:06,208 --> 01:39:07,916
transversed these different eras,

1332
01:39:08,583 --> 01:39:10,166
and one of the things

1333
01:39:10,166 --> 01:39:11,916
in the science fields,

1334
01:39:11,916 --> 01:39:12,916
and I think it, well,

1335
01:39:12,916 --> 01:39:13,958
obviously I speak firsthand

1336
01:39:13,958 --> 01:39:14,833
to marine science, but I

1337
01:39:14,833 --> 01:39:15,833
think in a lot of the sciences,

1338
01:39:16,375 --> 01:39:18,083
the problem has been

1339
01:39:18,083 --> 01:39:20,208
communicating to the public,

1340
01:39:20,208 --> 01:39:20,833
because you've got to,

1341
01:39:21,041 --> 01:39:22,583
there's been very few people,

1342
01:39:22,875 --> 01:39:24,708
and I say even today, that

1343
01:39:24,708 --> 01:39:26,625
are really credible scientists

1344
01:39:26,625 --> 01:39:29,500
that actually cross over and do, like,

1345
01:39:29,500 --> 01:39:31,041
the podcast type of stuff,

1346
01:39:31,041 --> 01:39:32,583
or science outreach stuff.

1347
01:39:32,583 --> 01:39:33,458
Most of the people,

1348
01:39:33,833 --> 01:39:34,791
they're one or the other.

1349
01:39:35,125 --> 01:39:36,208
They find a niche in

1350
01:39:36,208 --> 01:39:37,625
the, and I'm not saying

1351
01:39:37,666 --> 01:39:39,458
the other one's bad, but if somebody,

1352
01:39:39,458 --> 01:39:40,041
you have somebody

1353
01:39:40,041 --> 01:39:41,208
understands the science,

1354
01:39:41,208 --> 01:39:42,375
then they can communicate

1355
01:39:42,375 --> 01:39:44,041
that, because the scientists,

1356
01:39:45,208 --> 01:39:47,125
traditionally, and even today, I think a

1357
01:39:47,125 --> 01:39:48,250
lot of the ones that do,

1358
01:39:48,708 --> 01:39:50,291
a lot of the really cutting-edge stuff,

1359
01:39:50,541 --> 01:39:51,166
they're busy doing

1360
01:39:51,166 --> 01:39:52,500
their cutting-edge stuff,

1361
01:39:52,500 --> 01:39:53,375
and they just don't have

1362
01:39:53,375 --> 01:39:55,708
time to talk to people,

1363
01:39:56,041 --> 01:39:57,541
and when they do, then

1364
01:39:57,541 --> 01:39:58,416
they don't break it down

1365
01:39:58,750 --> 01:40:00,416
so the average person can understand what

1366
01:40:00,416 --> 01:40:01,166
they're talking about.

1367
01:40:01,625 --> 01:40:02,833
Right, yeah.

1368
01:40:03,750 --> 01:40:05,041
I've talked about one of my

1369
01:40:05,041 --> 01:40:06,416
mentors early in my career,

1370
01:40:06,500 --> 01:40:08,291
John McCosker, who was the director of

1371
01:40:08,291 --> 01:40:09,333
the Steinhardt Aquarium,

1372
01:40:10,333 --> 01:40:11,583
and he was, and I kind

1373
01:40:11,583 --> 01:40:12,625
of realized at the time,

1374
01:40:12,625 --> 01:40:14,750
but he was one of the few people I knew

1375
01:40:14,750 --> 01:40:17,166
who could take a complicated thing,

1376
01:40:17,166 --> 01:40:17,958
and he could literally,

1377
01:40:17,958 --> 01:40:18,916
because I was with him sometimes,

1378
01:40:19,333 --> 01:40:20,291
he could talk to, like, you

1379
01:40:20,291 --> 01:40:21,958
know, the guys in the dock

1380
01:40:21,958 --> 01:40:23,666
about something, and

1381
01:40:23,666 --> 01:40:25,375
just, and in simple terms,

1382
01:40:25,791 --> 01:40:26,291
I don't mean simple

1383
01:40:26,291 --> 01:40:28,041
terms, but in a layman's term,

1384
01:40:28,416 --> 01:40:29,625
that they could understand, and he wasn't

1385
01:40:29,625 --> 01:40:30,583
talking down to them,

1386
01:40:30,875 --> 01:40:32,750
but they'd like, oh, yeah, I get with,

1387
01:40:32,750 --> 01:40:33,458
now I understand that.

1388
01:40:34,500 --> 01:40:36,041
And unfortunately, most people in the

1389
01:40:36,041 --> 01:40:37,958
field don't do that.

1390
01:40:37,958 --> 01:40:39,041
I was fortunate because I

1391
01:40:39,041 --> 01:40:40,208
recognized it with them,

1392
01:40:40,208 --> 01:40:42,791
but, you know, he was one of the few at

1393
01:40:42,791 --> 01:40:45,208
that time that could do that.

1394
01:40:45,208 --> 01:40:45,833
Most of the people would

1395
01:40:45,833 --> 01:40:46,791
get really enthusiastic,

1396
01:40:47,041 --> 01:40:48,291
and I'd hear this over and over, like,

1397
01:40:48,291 --> 01:40:50,250
wow, that guy really is enthusiastic,

1398
01:40:50,500 --> 01:40:51,208
but I have no idea

1399
01:40:51,208 --> 01:40:52,083
what he's talking about.

1400
01:40:52,875 --> 01:40:55,166
Exactly. Or they don't care enough.

1401
01:40:55,625 --> 01:40:56,958
It's not enticing enough.

1402
01:40:57,250 --> 01:40:58,500
You know, people are

1403
01:40:58,500 --> 01:40:59,458
used to storytelling,

1404
01:40:59,500 --> 01:41:03,000
and we need to bring that emotion back

1405
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:04,583
into storytelling from the science.

1406
01:41:04,791 --> 01:41:06,041
You know, we need to extrapolate the

1407
01:41:06,041 --> 01:41:07,291
science that people need to know.

1408
01:41:07,791 --> 01:41:09,416
We need to put it in a way that people,

1409
01:41:09,416 --> 01:41:11,041
and that takes a while for scientists

1410
01:41:11,041 --> 01:41:12,791
to be able to do because we've been

1411
01:41:12,791 --> 01:41:14,041
trained to be analytical.

1412
01:41:14,333 --> 01:41:15,875
We've been trained to, as Randy Olson

1413
01:41:15,875 --> 01:41:17,958
says, you know, speak to the brain.

1414
01:41:18,250 --> 01:41:19,833
So if I give you facts, you should be

1415
01:41:19,833 --> 01:41:20,708
able to understand it,

1416
01:41:20,708 --> 01:41:22,333
and therefore that will change your

1417
01:41:22,333 --> 01:41:23,250
behavior because it's

1418
01:41:23,250 --> 01:41:24,708
a logical thing to do.

1419
01:41:25,750 --> 01:41:27,291
Humans don't act logically a lot of

1420
01:41:27,291 --> 01:41:27,458
times. A lot of times,

1421
01:41:27,500 --> 01:41:29,500
we'll act on emotion. So if you make it

1422
01:41:29,500 --> 01:41:31,333
funny, sad, make them

1423
01:41:31,333 --> 01:41:32,875
angry, make them happy,

1424
01:41:33,250 --> 01:41:34,916
that was like you go for their gut.

1425
01:41:35,291 --> 01:41:36,041
That's what it does.

1426
01:41:36,041 --> 01:41:38,416
But I think, you know, going back to what

1427
01:41:38,416 --> 01:41:40,583
you're saying in terms of like why

1428
01:41:40,583 --> 01:41:44,166
podcasts is such a good platform is

1429
01:41:44,500 --> 01:41:45,708
people listen to podcasts

1430
01:41:45,708 --> 01:41:49,041
longer than any other platform.

1431
01:41:49,625 --> 01:41:51,375
Maybe YouTube now is a little bit better

1432
01:41:51,375 --> 01:41:51,833
because it's getting a

1433
01:41:51,833 --> 01:41:52,458
little longer, but even then,

1434
01:41:52,500 --> 01:41:54,916
you know, you're looking at, you know,

1435
01:41:54,916 --> 01:41:57,125
these short form video platforms like

1436
01:41:57,125 --> 01:41:59,166
Instagram and TikTok, you're looking at

1437
01:41:59,166 --> 01:42:00,000
under three minutes.

1438
01:42:00,458 --> 01:42:01,708
YouTube, you're looking at between three

1439
01:42:01,708 --> 01:42:02,916
to five minutes podcasts.

1440
01:42:03,458 --> 01:42:04,458
On average, people listen

1441
01:42:04,458 --> 01:42:06,666
between 20 and 45 minutes.

1442
01:42:06,666 --> 01:42:07,500
Well, it's because you can take your

1443
01:42:07,500 --> 01:42:10,125
little device here and take it out.

1444
01:42:10,125 --> 01:42:12,375
You know, you can take your little, you

1445
01:42:12,375 --> 01:42:15,333
can take your device and go out and, you

1446
01:42:15,333 --> 01:42:17,125
know, push your earbuds on

1447
01:42:17,125 --> 01:42:18,500
or whatever and go for a walk.

1448
01:42:18,500 --> 01:42:20,000
You can go for a drive in the car.

1449
01:42:20,375 --> 01:42:21,083
Yeah, go exercise.

1450
01:42:21,500 --> 01:42:23,708
You go. I mean, I sometimes, you know,

1451
01:42:23,708 --> 01:42:25,041
especially in California, people, you

1452
01:42:25,041 --> 01:42:26,333
know, those they'll commute one to two

1453
01:42:26,333 --> 01:42:29,000
hours a day each way going to work and

1454
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:30,208
you put on a podcast,

1455
01:42:30,208 --> 01:42:32,000
you know, you're good.

1456
01:42:32,916 --> 01:42:35,416
You know, put on Beyond Jaws, hopefully,

1457
01:42:36,166 --> 01:42:37,416
or how to protect the

1458
01:42:37,416 --> 01:42:40,291
ocean. And, you know, yeah.

1459
01:42:41,041 --> 01:42:42,458
So tell us about this job. You just,

1460
01:42:42,666 --> 01:42:44,000
yeah, career change.

1461
01:42:45,166 --> 01:42:48,708
So, yeah, so, so I am now as of, so this

1462
01:42:48,708 --> 01:42:51,250
is going to go up the Good Friday. So as

1463
01:42:51,250 --> 01:42:53,333
of next week, if whenever you're

1464
01:42:53,333 --> 01:42:54,666
listening, as of the seventh, I'm going

1465
01:42:54,666 --> 01:42:57,625
to be an oceans communication manager for

1466
01:42:57,625 --> 01:43:01,208
a consulting firm called Pisces Ocean.

1467
01:43:01,791 --> 01:43:03,458
And, and their tagline is eliminating

1468
01:43:03,458 --> 01:43:06,583
barriers to oceans project success ocean

1469
01:43:06,583 --> 01:43:09,375
project success. And the idea behind that

1470
01:43:09,375 --> 01:43:12,208
is we work with clients that could be for

1471
01:43:12,208 --> 01:43:14,000
profit companies, nonprofit

1472
01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:16,208
organizations, academic institutions that

1473
01:43:16,208 --> 01:43:18,208
have projects and we help them.

1474
01:43:28,750 --> 01:43:29,708
And then and then there's the

1475
01:43:29,708 --> 01:43:31,541
communication side. So the idea around

1476
01:43:31,541 --> 01:43:33,916
all of it as it fits together is we help

1477
01:43:33,916 --> 01:43:36,208
make their projects more successful, you

1478
01:43:36,208 --> 01:43:38,041
know, by helping them like a lot of

1479
01:43:38,041 --> 01:43:39,041
academic institutions.

1480
01:43:39,500 --> 01:43:41,458
Usually they'll have labs or they'll

1481
01:43:41,458 --> 01:43:45,500
have, you know, collaborative project,

1482
01:43:45,500 --> 01:43:47,875
let's just say, and they may not have the

1483
01:43:47,875 --> 01:43:50,583
resources to handle the, you know, all

1484
01:43:50,583 --> 01:43:53,000
the administration for grants or how to

1485
01:43:53,000 --> 01:43:54,625
manage that project or they may not have

1486
01:43:54,625 --> 01:43:56,166
the people to do the project management,

1487
01:43:56,166 --> 01:43:58,416
but they also may not have the, the

1488
01:43:58,500 --> 01:44:00,000
consulting and they may not be able to

1489
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:02,500
tell their story properly, you know, and

1490
01:44:02,500 --> 01:44:05,375
so we work with clients to do that. And

1491
01:44:05,375 --> 01:44:07,000
I'll be the ocean communications manager.

1492
01:44:07,291 --> 01:44:08,500
I've, you know, obviously I have a

1493
01:44:08,500 --> 01:44:10,250
science background, have the

1494
01:44:10,250 --> 01:44:11,375
communication background.

1495
01:44:11,958 --> 01:44:13,333
So we'll be working with clients from all

1496
01:44:13,333 --> 01:44:16,500
over, you know, the spectrum of working

1497
01:44:16,500 --> 01:44:17,791
in the ocean. I always like to say

1498
01:44:17,791 --> 01:44:20,500
working with companies, projects,

1499
01:44:20,500 --> 01:44:22,833
nonprofits who have a net positive impact

1500
01:44:22,833 --> 01:44:25,500
on the ocean. And so that's like, you

1501
01:44:25,500 --> 01:44:27,500
know, the consulting that I did back, you

1502
01:44:27,500 --> 01:44:28,416
know, in the early 2000s.

1503
01:44:28,500 --> 01:44:30,541
And so that's like, you know, the early 2000s was all about working with

1504
01:44:30,541 --> 01:44:32,208
companies who, who have almost a net

1505
01:44:32,208 --> 01:44:34,500
negative impact on the ocean here, we're

1506
01:44:34,500 --> 01:44:36,541
working with the opposite. And it's

1507
01:44:36,541 --> 01:44:38,583
exciting because there's, there's,

1508
01:44:38,583 --> 01:44:40,125
there's going to be, you know, clients

1509
01:44:40,125 --> 01:44:42,125
that are working with AI to reroute

1510
01:44:42,125 --> 01:44:45,625
shipping channels to, so that they stay

1511
01:44:45,625 --> 01:44:48,625
away from high biodiversity areas or out

1512
01:44:48,625 --> 01:44:51,250
of Wales migration routes and still be

1513
01:44:51,250 --> 01:44:55,333
efficient for, for, for, for gas and

1514
01:44:55,333 --> 01:44:56,791
diesel and stuff like that.

1515
01:44:58,500 --> 01:44:58,666
And so, so that's something I think that
we're really working with in terms of

1516
01:44:58,666 --> 01:45:01,750
projects that we get to work with it one,

1517
01:45:01,750 --> 01:45:03,083
I mean, I told you, I really like working

1518
01:45:03,083 --> 01:45:04,541
on different projects when I was working

1519
01:45:04,541 --> 01:45:06,125
for a DFO. Like I get to do the same

1520
01:45:06,125 --> 01:45:08,208
thing here and I get to do communication.

1521
01:45:08,458 --> 01:45:09,875
So that includes a number of different

1522
01:45:09,875 --> 01:45:11,291
things and it'll be different for every

1523
01:45:11,291 --> 01:45:13,208
client, but maybe helping them with

1524
01:45:13,208 --> 01:45:14,708
podcasting, helping them with social

1525
01:45:14,708 --> 01:45:16,750
media, helping them design their website,

1526
01:45:16,750 --> 01:45:19,458
just really strategize on the

1527
01:45:19,458 --> 01:45:20,458
storytelling aspect.

1528
01:45:21,416 --> 01:45:23,041
And that'll be the fun part.

1529
01:45:23,041 --> 01:45:24,166
I get to use my creativity,

1530
01:45:24,166 --> 01:45:25,541
I get to use the science,

1531
01:45:26,333 --> 01:45:27,833
and then I get to bring that all together

1532
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:29,750
into telling a really good story

1533
01:45:30,291 --> 01:45:31,041
for each of those clients

1534
01:45:31,041 --> 01:45:33,625
that are unique to them, the clients,

1535
01:45:33,625 --> 01:45:35,916
but also something that people can really

1536
01:45:35,916 --> 01:45:39,750
grab ahold of and learn

1537
01:45:40,083 --> 01:45:41,625
and be able to speak about as well.

1538
01:45:41,875 --> 01:45:43,125
So super exciting.

1539
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:47,416
It came from the person

1540
01:45:47,416 --> 01:45:49,833
who hired me, Natalie Gilson,

1541
01:45:49,875 --> 01:45:52,208
who's the co-CEO at this company.

1542
01:45:52,541 --> 01:45:55,333
We've been friends for a few years now.

1543
01:45:56,125 --> 01:45:57,583
She found me through the podcast.

1544
01:45:58,208 --> 01:45:59,000
She was working.

1545
01:45:59,458 --> 01:46:01,208
She had her own marketing shop.

1546
01:46:01,791 --> 01:46:03,791
She wanted to get more of,

1547
01:46:04,041 --> 01:46:04,958
work in an area where

1548
01:46:04,958 --> 01:46:05,916
she had more of an impact,

1549
01:46:05,916 --> 01:46:06,833
especially on the ocean,

1550
01:46:07,125 --> 01:46:08,166
because she loved the ocean so much.

1551
01:46:09,083 --> 01:46:10,583
And then she found the podcast,

1552
01:46:10,791 --> 01:46:11,291
and she's like, "This is

1553
01:46:11,291 --> 01:46:12,166
great, this guy's Canadian."

1554
01:46:12,458 --> 01:46:13,833
We actually lived, at the time,

1555
01:46:13,833 --> 01:46:15,791
we lived maybe like 45

1556
01:46:15,791 --> 01:46:16,791
minutes away from each other.

1557
01:46:17,208 --> 01:46:18,000
We had some conversation,

1558
01:46:18,250 --> 01:46:19,083
I had her on the podcast.

1559
01:46:19,666 --> 01:46:20,458
We just talked a lot

1560
01:46:20,458 --> 01:46:21,375
about different things.

1561
01:46:21,916 --> 01:46:23,791
And then recently at the

1562
01:46:23,791 --> 01:46:24,625
World Ocean Conference,

1563
01:46:24,958 --> 01:46:27,333
I got offered a job to work with her,

1564
01:46:27,708 --> 01:46:28,541
which we had talked

1565
01:46:28,541 --> 01:46:30,458
about on and off for a bit.

1566
01:46:31,041 --> 01:46:33,375
Just never came to be at the right time.

1567
01:46:33,708 --> 01:46:36,000
And now it's like super exciting.

1568
01:46:36,250 --> 01:46:38,500
We're gung-ho for doing this.

1569
01:46:38,791 --> 01:46:42,458
And yeah, it's pretty exciting

1570
01:46:42,458 --> 01:46:44,333
on a number of different levels, Dave.

1571
01:46:44,458 --> 01:46:46,333
Not only because of the job I get to do,

1572
01:46:46,625 --> 01:46:48,208
but the work that I put in

1573
01:46:49,000 --> 01:46:50,166
over the last like 16

1574
01:46:50,166 --> 01:46:51,791
years in communication,

1575
01:46:51,791 --> 01:46:53,208
to get all that experience,

1576
01:46:53,500 --> 01:46:57,958
to do something that I love full time.

1577
01:46:58,333 --> 01:46:59,916
One thing that we

1578
01:46:59,916 --> 01:47:00,708
haven't really discussed,

1579
01:47:00,708 --> 01:47:02,791
I've been working a separate job for the

1580
01:47:02,791 --> 01:47:04,541
last like six and a half years,

1581
01:47:05,250 --> 01:47:07,208
just to pay the bills.

1582
01:47:07,208 --> 01:47:08,291
And I was working in software,

1583
01:47:08,291 --> 01:47:09,458
which I had a great time doing.

1584
01:47:09,666 --> 01:47:10,625
I love the people I

1585
01:47:10,625 --> 01:47:11,916
work with, I learned a lot,

1586
01:47:13,083 --> 01:47:15,208
but there's always still

1587
01:47:15,208 --> 01:47:16,583
this hole that I'm like,

1588
01:47:42,500 --> 01:47:46,083
I didn't belong there. People talk about going to the field and

1589
01:47:46,083 --> 01:47:48,250
they're 28 years old and they can't

1590
01:47:48,250 --> 01:47:49,500
figure out whether they can't find a job.

1591
01:47:49,500 --> 01:47:50,208
And it's like, well, you know, it might

1592
01:47:50,208 --> 01:47:53,250
take you a while to after grad school,

1593
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:57,250
to, I mean, it was 10 years at least

1594
01:47:57,250 --> 01:47:59,708
after I finished my PhD before I,

1595
01:47:59,708 --> 01:48:02,416
before I actually found a job,

1596
01:48:02,416 --> 01:48:02,875
actually probably a

1597
01:48:02,875 --> 01:48:03,958
little more than 10 years.

1598
01:48:03,958 --> 01:48:04,583
I worked and I worked,

1599
01:48:04,583 --> 01:48:05,875
I worked in aquaculture.

1600
01:48:06,416 --> 01:48:06,666
Yeah.

1601
01:48:07,125 --> 01:48:08,625
You know, and I was abalone, right?

1602
01:48:08,833 --> 01:48:10,375
Yeah. I did abalone for 10 years.

1603
01:48:11,083 --> 01:48:12,291
And it was a business.

1604
01:48:12,291 --> 01:48:13,875
My brother and I started with a few other

1605
01:48:13,875 --> 01:48:15,000
partners just because

1606
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:16,416
we couldn't find a job.

1607
01:48:16,416 --> 01:48:18,125
So we just literally created our own job.

1608
01:48:18,958 --> 01:48:20,750
And, uh, and, but what I kept doing

1609
01:48:20,750 --> 01:48:23,416
though, and this is exactly what you did.

1610
01:48:24,083 --> 01:48:24,875
I'd finished it.

1611
01:48:24,875 --> 01:48:25,833
And when you're in your business for

1612
01:48:25,833 --> 01:48:26,458
yourself, like

1613
01:48:26,458 --> 01:48:27,750
aquaculture, you're farming.

1614
01:48:27,750 --> 01:48:28,375
And so it's not like

1615
01:48:28,375 --> 01:48:29,625
an eight to five job,

1616
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:31,458
but when I'd finish up the end of the

1617
01:48:31,458 --> 01:48:33,916
day, I'd go home and every night,

1618
01:48:33,916 --> 01:48:34,916
three, four hours,

1619
01:48:34,916 --> 01:48:36,541
usually till midnight or so,

1620
01:48:36,750 --> 01:48:38,916
I would be at home working on papers,

1621
01:48:39,250 --> 01:48:40,708
doing a different, you know, projects.

1622
01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:42,000
I was working on my shark.

1623
01:48:42,208 --> 01:48:43,333
That was my shark time.

1624
01:48:43,625 --> 01:48:44,583
Like, I mean, you and I are

1625
01:48:44,583 --> 01:48:45,958
so parallel like that, Andrew.

1626
01:48:45,958 --> 01:48:46,291
Oh, yeah.

1627
01:48:46,291 --> 01:48:49,000
It was just, and I did that for 10 years.

1628
01:48:49,000 --> 01:48:51,958
And then so until I had an opportunity to

1629
01:48:51,958 --> 01:48:54,000
go back into doing sharks and that

1630
01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:55,958
sometimes you have to do that extra.

1631
01:48:55,958 --> 01:48:57,958
And the only reason I got the job when it

1632
01:48:57,958 --> 01:48:59,166
opened up was because

1633
01:48:59,166 --> 01:49:00,958
they saw me at conferences.

1634
01:49:01,750 --> 01:49:04,333
I was, I was publishing more papers at

1635
01:49:04,333 --> 01:49:06,833
the, in the nineties than people with

1636
01:49:06,833 --> 01:49:08,208
actual jobs in the field.

1637
01:49:08,625 --> 01:49:08,916
Yeah.

1638
01:49:09,208 --> 01:49:09,416
Yeah.

1639
01:49:09,458 --> 01:49:11,625
So like, and as fortunate, my former

1640
01:49:11,625 --> 01:49:14,000
advisor, Greg Kai, recognized that.

1641
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:15,833
And when he had an opportunity with some

1642
01:49:15,833 --> 01:49:17,500
funding, he had, he hired me to come in

1643
01:49:17,500 --> 01:49:19,208
and run the Pacific shark research center

1644
01:49:19,208 --> 01:49:21,375
with them and started up.

1645
01:49:21,375 --> 01:49:22,458
And, but it was the same thing.

1646
01:49:22,458 --> 01:49:24,375
Like I was, you know, my days didn't end

1647
01:49:24,375 --> 01:49:25,875
till after midnight pretty much.

1648
01:49:25,875 --> 01:49:29,083
And I had to be up at five to go do so,

1649
01:49:29,083 --> 01:49:29,708
you know, maybe getting

1650
01:49:29,708 --> 01:49:32,041
five hours sleep at night.

1651
01:49:32,041 --> 01:49:33,916
Oh, I know that very familiar.

1652
01:49:34,541 --> 01:49:35,958
That's why when I get these messages from

1653
01:49:35,958 --> 01:49:36,625
you and I know it's

1654
01:49:36,625 --> 01:49:37,708
after midnight your time,

1655
01:49:37,750 --> 01:49:39,500
I, I appreciate that.

1656
01:49:39,500 --> 01:49:41,541
And I'm very respectful because I know I

1657
01:49:41,541 --> 01:49:43,708
was there for a lot of years and then he

1658
01:49:43,708 --> 01:49:44,833
kind of hit that point now

1659
01:49:44,833 --> 01:49:46,958
where like I still put it.

1660
01:49:46,958 --> 01:49:49,166
I put in a pretty good times, but you've

1661
01:49:49,166 --> 01:49:51,375
got other commitments and just like, you

1662
01:49:51,375 --> 01:49:53,416
know, I don't need to be up to one

1663
01:49:53,416 --> 01:49:55,708
o'clock this morning doing that at this

1664
01:49:55,708 --> 01:49:56,833
point in my life and

1665
01:49:56,833 --> 01:49:58,458
stuff, you know, absolutely.

1666
01:49:58,708 --> 01:50:00,541
And I think now it's, it's like, you

1667
01:50:00,541 --> 01:50:05,000
know, it's come down to one is like

1668
01:50:05,000 --> 01:50:07,250
coming up with a good workflow,

1669
01:50:07,333 --> 01:50:09,333
like an efficient workflow and I've

1670
01:50:09,333 --> 01:50:11,125
learned that through friends over the

1671
01:50:11,125 --> 01:50:12,833
years and consultants that I've hired

1672
01:50:12,833 --> 01:50:14,083
over the years and coaches that I've

1673
01:50:14,083 --> 01:50:15,750
hired is, you know, if you're going to do

1674
01:50:15,750 --> 01:50:17,666
this separate and build those skills,

1675
01:50:17,916 --> 01:50:19,166
like you have to have a good workflow

1676
01:50:19,166 --> 01:50:20,958
where like, I'm going to work these days

1677
01:50:20,958 --> 01:50:22,458
and you got to set boundaries and other

1678
01:50:22,458 --> 01:50:24,458
days, I'm going to have some time off,

1679
01:50:24,458 --> 01:50:28,166
you know, and, and, and now like it's,

1680
01:50:28,166 --> 01:50:30,125
it's paid off where, you know, there's

1681
01:50:30,125 --> 01:50:31,541
going to be the podcast is going to be

1682
01:50:31,541 --> 01:50:34,416
involved, not always with, with Pisces,

1683
01:50:34,416 --> 01:50:35,083
like where I'm working

1684
01:50:35,083 --> 01:50:36,291
now, but there'll be some.

1685
01:50:36,333 --> 01:50:38,375
Clients that we have on the podcast there

1686
01:50:38,375 --> 01:50:39,708
because they're, they're really important

1687
01:50:39,708 --> 01:50:41,541
to what, what I want to do with the, with

1688
01:50:41,541 --> 01:50:43,750
the podcast. And so there's going to be a

1689
01:50:43,750 --> 01:50:45,583
blend in that a little bit. So it's not

1690
01:50:45,583 --> 01:50:47,041
always going to be separate. It's not

1691
01:50:47,041 --> 01:50:48,708
always going to be like, I have to stay

1692
01:50:48,708 --> 01:50:50,875
up till 11 just to record podcasts or

1693
01:50:50,875 --> 01:50:52,666
something like that. No, like I'll be

1694
01:50:52,666 --> 01:50:53,875
able to do it pretty early. Also, I'll

1695
01:50:53,875 --> 01:50:54,958
get my evenings back.

1696
01:50:54,958 --> 01:50:56,291
That's what I'm really excited.

1697
01:50:56,333 --> 01:50:57,416
Cause not only am I going to be working

1698
01:50:57,416 --> 01:51:00,500
my butt off during the day for Pisces and

1699
01:51:00,500 --> 01:51:02,500
the podcast, but it's like, I get my

1700
01:51:02,500 --> 01:51:04,416
evenings back, you know, I get to work

1701
01:51:04,416 --> 01:51:06,416
out again on a regular basis. I get to

1702
01:51:06,416 --> 01:51:08,416
spend time with my kids a little bit

1703
01:51:08,416 --> 01:51:10,458
more, you know, my wife, you know, a

1704
01:51:10,458 --> 01:51:12,708
little bit more like it's just, just to

1705
01:51:12,708 --> 01:51:14,875
relax a little bit more, you know, and,

1706
01:51:14,875 --> 01:51:17,333
and, and that's, that's important to me

1707
01:51:17,333 --> 01:51:19,875
at this point in time. And, and to get to

1708
01:51:19,875 --> 01:51:21,958
a point where I can, you know, eight

1709
01:51:21,958 --> 01:51:22,750
hours a day, I've been

1710
01:51:22,750 --> 01:51:24,291
saying this for 16 years.

1711
01:51:24,333 --> 01:51:25,916
I just want to get to a point where I can

1712
01:51:25,916 --> 01:51:28,250
work on oceans during the day, eight

1713
01:51:28,250 --> 01:51:31,416
hours a day. And now I get to do that. I

1714
01:51:31,416 --> 01:51:32,708
think it's, I think it's really great.

1715
01:51:32,708 --> 01:51:34,875
And I get to work with these, these great

1716
01:51:34,875 --> 01:51:36,666
companies, organizations and projects

1717
01:51:36,666 --> 01:51:39,583
that are doing good for the ocean. And,

1718
01:51:39,583 --> 01:51:41,291
and, you know, I get to have a hand in

1719
01:51:41,291 --> 01:51:42,791
that. And I think that's, that's really

1720
01:51:42,791 --> 01:51:45,166
great. And, and I'll tell you like that

1721
01:51:45,166 --> 01:51:47,375
the, you know, the interview was very,

1722
01:51:47,750 --> 01:51:49,166
there was, there was like, you can almost

1723
01:51:49,166 --> 01:51:50,500
say there was no formal interview

1724
01:51:50,500 --> 01:51:53,875
process. This was done over years and it

1725
01:51:53,875 --> 01:51:54,291
was done getting to the point where you know,

1726
01:51:54,333 --> 01:51:55,083
we're all just getting to know each other

1727
01:51:55,083 --> 01:51:56,291
and how we work together and doing

1728
01:51:56,291 --> 01:51:58,666
relationships, the network, it's a

1729
01:51:58,666 --> 01:52:00,208
relationship, right? It's working on

1730
01:52:00,208 --> 01:52:02,000
volunteer projects together, seeing how

1731
01:52:02,000 --> 01:52:04,625
we are, you know, personality rise. So

1732
01:52:04,625 --> 01:52:06,208
it's almost been, I guess, like a three

1733
01:52:06,208 --> 01:52:08,375
to four year interview process if you

1734
01:52:08,375 --> 01:52:11,291
really want to put it that way. But we

1735
01:52:11,291 --> 01:52:13,083
work really well together. And, and, and

1736
01:52:13,083 --> 01:52:14,958
I've met like, it's going to be a small

1737
01:52:14,958 --> 01:52:17,791
boutique consulting firm from now. We

1738
01:52:17,791 --> 01:52:20,333
will be growing and, and I'll hopefully

1739
01:52:20,333 --> 01:52:22,666
be part of that. And, and, you know, I'm

1740
01:52:22,666 --> 01:52:24,291
looking to, to like really

1741
01:52:24,333 --> 01:52:26,250
do some great things and I'll talk about

1742
01:52:26,250 --> 01:52:27,666
it on the podcast. Of course, I'll talk

1743
01:52:27,666 --> 01:52:29,166
about it on Beyond Jaws and stuff, but

1744
01:52:29,166 --> 01:52:31,333
this is going to be a lot of fun. So I'm

1745
01:52:31,333 --> 01:52:33,250
like ready to dive in, you know,

1746
01:52:33,250 --> 01:52:36,125
headfirst on, on this and, and, and kick

1747
01:52:36,125 --> 01:52:37,666
some, kick some butt for the ocean.

1748
01:52:38,125 --> 01:52:39,375
Great. Well, well, Daniel, we'll

1749
01:52:39,375 --> 01:52:41,375
definitely have to have you back on the

1750
01:52:41,375 --> 01:52:45,000
show here and protect the ocean and, and

1751
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:47,750
follow up on how it's going with the job.

1752
01:52:47,750 --> 01:52:49,291
And we'll certainly talk about it on the

1753
01:52:49,291 --> 01:52:50,625
Beyond Jaws podcast as well.

1754
01:52:50,666 --> 01:52:53,625
Yes. Yes. And I just want to, want to

1755
01:52:53,625 --> 01:52:55,083
thank you for coming on the show today.

1756
01:52:55,625 --> 01:53:00,416
And sharing your journey here and

1757
01:53:00,416 --> 01:53:03,250
everything. And so we'll see how, we'll

1758
01:53:03,250 --> 01:53:04,833
see how the show does in the, in the

1759
01:53:04,833 --> 01:53:06,000
metrics here. You might

1760
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:07,625
see the show after this.

1761
01:53:07,958 --> 01:53:10,500
Oh no, no, no, no. That's insane. Of

1762
01:53:10,500 --> 01:53:11,500
course we're going to have you back.

1763
01:53:11,500 --> 01:53:12,833
We'll have you back for your own stuff

1764
01:53:12,833 --> 01:53:15,083
too. And, and people like check out how

1765
01:53:15,083 --> 01:53:16,625
to protect the ocean. Like we talk about

1766
01:53:16,625 --> 01:53:19,208
careers all the time. Sorry. Beyond Jaws.

1767
01:53:19,541 --> 01:53:20,791
You know, we talk to people who are

1768
01:53:20,791 --> 01:53:23,041
meandering in and out of careers. Like we

1769
01:53:23,041 --> 01:53:25,375
say this every time and, and people agree

1770
01:53:25,375 --> 01:53:27,583
with us, our guests agree with us is it's

1771
01:53:27,583 --> 01:53:29,708
not a straight path. It's very rare where

1772
01:53:29,708 --> 01:53:31,166
it's a straight path from going from

1773
01:53:31,166 --> 01:53:32,958
graduate school or going from undergrad

1774
01:53:32,958 --> 01:53:34,708
and working right in there and doing

1775
01:53:34,708 --> 01:53:35,833
exactly what you want.

1776
01:53:36,083 --> 01:53:37,208
Because science is different and you

1777
01:53:37,208 --> 01:53:38,458
never know what you're going to love,

1778
01:53:38,833 --> 01:53:40,125
whether it's the science side, the

1779
01:53:40,125 --> 01:53:42,333
conservation side, the business side, you

1780
01:53:42,333 --> 01:53:43,458
never know what you're going to be able

1781
01:53:43,458 --> 01:53:45,458
to do and where it's

1782
01:53:45,458 --> 01:53:46,375
going to lead you to.

1783
01:53:46,375 --> 01:53:47,750
And there's going to be pivots. There's

1784
01:53:47,750 --> 01:53:49,416
going to be that, but check out Beyond

1785
01:53:49,416 --> 01:53:51,916
Jaws because that, that podcast really

1786
01:53:51,916 --> 01:53:54,416
shows in real life what it's like.

1787
01:53:54,708 --> 01:53:56,500
And if I get one other plug to the other,

1788
01:53:56,500 --> 01:54:00,083
the other YouTube channel, which is on

1789
01:54:00,083 --> 01:54:02,666
LawShark Guy, we got a documentary

1790
01:54:02,666 --> 01:54:05,416
series, Andrew is working on with me to

1791
01:54:05,416 --> 01:54:06,916
certain titles, searching for

1792
01:54:06,916 --> 01:54:08,166
law sharks, Extincture Live.

1793
01:54:08,291 --> 01:54:10,958
And I tell stories literally. And that's

1794
01:54:10,958 --> 01:54:12,666
a whole other thing for not conversation

1795
01:54:12,666 --> 01:54:15,833
for another time that I blundered into,

1796
01:54:15,833 --> 01:54:17,250
but it's, it's shared stories.

1797
01:54:17,250 --> 01:54:18,791
And one thing I have to say about, you

1798
01:54:18,791 --> 01:54:20,291
know, being on my point in career and

1799
01:54:20,291 --> 01:54:21,541
you're this next, this next episode is

1800
01:54:21,541 --> 01:54:23,250
kind of, I share a lot of my own personal

1801
01:54:23,250 --> 01:54:24,458
journey and connection with a lot of

1802
01:54:24,458 --> 01:54:25,875
these sharks that we're looking for.

1803
01:54:25,875 --> 01:54:27,416
And the next one, the River Sharks

1804
01:54:27,416 --> 01:54:29,000
stories coming up here.

1805
01:54:29,083 --> 01:54:30,791
Oh man, it's going to be dropped in the

1806
01:54:30,791 --> 01:54:33,916
next 10 days or so. Check it out because

1807
01:54:33,916 --> 01:54:36,083
I talk in that one and share about how

1808
01:54:36,083 --> 01:54:39,000
the whole field of in part shark

1809
01:54:39,000 --> 01:54:40,875
conservation started because there was no

1810
01:54:40,875 --> 01:54:43,083
field when I started there was it's hard

1811
01:54:43,083 --> 01:54:44,750
for young people to think about this.

1812
01:54:44,750 --> 01:54:46,250
And we'll talk about this maybe on one of

1813
01:54:46,250 --> 01:54:48,458
our Beyond Jaws, but there was no field

1814
01:54:48,458 --> 01:54:50,416
of shark conservation when I

1815
01:54:50,416 --> 01:54:51,416
started out in the eighties.

1816
01:54:51,416 --> 01:54:52,125
It just didn't exist.

1817
01:54:52,125 --> 01:54:53,833
It was not a term at all.

1818
01:54:54,125 --> 01:54:56,458
So I didn't want to know that much about

1819
01:54:56,458 --> 01:54:58,125
it. Well, and it goes to be asked to go

1820
01:54:58,125 --> 01:54:59,750
show like that work, my work on that

1821
01:54:59,750 --> 01:55:02,000
doing the editing for that, you know,

1822
01:55:02,000 --> 01:55:03,666
doing the editing for videos, doing the

1823
01:55:03,666 --> 01:55:05,500
editing for podcasting, whether the

1824
01:55:05,500 --> 01:55:08,291
videos or audio, you know, doing social

1825
01:55:08,291 --> 01:55:09,500
media, doing newsletter

1826
01:55:09,500 --> 01:55:11,333
management, doing webinar management.

1827
01:55:12,875 --> 01:55:15,833
All of these things have helped me get

1828
01:55:15,833 --> 01:55:18,291
this job. Yeah. You know, to a point

1829
01:55:18,291 --> 01:55:20,291
where like I have to do my new boss was

1830
01:55:20,291 --> 01:55:21,458
like, how have you not been

1831
01:55:21,458 --> 01:55:23,083
hired for this type of job?

1832
01:55:24,208 --> 01:55:27,208
When you someone says that to you, you're

1833
01:55:27,208 --> 01:55:29,666
like, okay, like this is kind of cool.

1834
01:55:29,666 --> 01:55:30,666
And then you realize, like, I got to

1835
01:55:30,666 --> 01:55:34,000
start talking about more because people

1836
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:35,458
don't realize. But yeah, like, that's

1837
01:55:35,458 --> 01:55:36,708
that's really what it comes down to.

1838
01:55:36,708 --> 01:55:39,083
And like the I talked about earlier this

1839
01:55:39,083 --> 01:55:41,500
week in one of our episodes, like, if you

1840
01:55:41,500 --> 01:55:44,666
can't find experience by doing a job, you

1841
01:55:44,666 --> 01:55:46,625
can. There's a lot of ways you can do it

1842
01:55:46,625 --> 01:55:48,708
yourself and figure that out.

1843
01:55:48,750 --> 01:55:51,250
There's no doubt about it. For me was

1844
01:55:51,250 --> 01:55:54,000
time and some sleep. But for the most

1845
01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:56,125
part, you know, you can do it and and you

1846
01:55:56,125 --> 01:55:57,958
can do it pretty well and still have a

1847
01:55:57,958 --> 01:56:00,000
life while you do it. Like I, I have to

1848
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:01,833
admit, like my podcast frequency of

1849
01:56:01,833 --> 01:56:03,916
publishing is is a little insane.

1850
01:56:04,291 --> 01:56:06,125
And because I love it so much. But you

1851
01:56:06,125 --> 01:56:07,500
know, for most people who want to do one

1852
01:56:07,500 --> 01:56:09,625
show a week or one show a month or one

1853
01:56:09,625 --> 01:56:11,833
show every two weeks, it's not as it's

1854
01:56:11,833 --> 01:56:14,208
work, but it's not as bad as you think.

1855
01:56:14,208 --> 01:56:16,541
And so, you know, definitely think about

1856
01:56:16,541 --> 01:56:18,166
that because because communication is a

1857
01:56:18,166 --> 01:56:21,125
big, big growing part of this of the

1858
01:56:21,125 --> 01:56:23,750
conservation field. So with that said,

1859
01:56:23,750 --> 01:56:24,375
Dave, thanks for

1860
01:56:24,375 --> 01:56:25,916
hosting. I do appreciate it.

1861
01:56:26,375 --> 01:56:28,541
We'll look forward to having you back on

1862
01:56:28,541 --> 01:56:30,625
soon. And I will be asking you the

1863
01:56:30,625 --> 01:56:32,500
questions next time. OK. All right.

1864
01:56:32,500 --> 01:56:34,083
Thanks a lot. Thank you, everyone, for

1865
01:56:34,083 --> 01:56:35,666
joining us today. Happy

1866
01:56:35,666 --> 01:56:37,125
conservation. Bye bye.