What Does a Camera Have to Do With Saving Sharks?

1
01:00:22,291 --> 01:00:24,625
On today's episode of the Beyond Jaws

2
01:00:24,625 --> 01:00:25,375
podcast, we're going to be

3
01:00:25,375 --> 01:00:27,416
talking to Manique Fallows.

4
01:00:27,416 --> 01:00:28,541
You've probably heard the name Fallows

5
01:00:28,541 --> 01:00:29,791
before because we've had

6
01:00:29,791 --> 01:00:31,250
Chris Fallows, her husband,

7
01:00:31,708 --> 01:00:33,791
on the podcast before talking about great

8
01:00:33,791 --> 01:00:35,541
whites and Air Jaws and photography.

9
01:00:36,250 --> 01:00:39,875
And Manique's story is unique and just as

10
01:00:39,875 --> 01:00:41,916
interesting as Chris's.

11
01:00:42,250 --> 01:00:44,250
She is into photography, she's into

12
01:00:44,250 --> 01:00:46,500
writing books, and it was

13
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:47,333
such a pleasure to be able

14
01:00:47,333 --> 01:00:48,333
to talk to her that we want to

15
01:00:48,333 --> 01:00:49,750
share that interview with you.

16
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:50,958
So let's start the show.

17
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:52,291
Hey everybody, welcome back to another

18
01:00:52,291 --> 01:00:53,541
exciting episode of

19
01:00:53,541 --> 01:00:54,500
the Beyond Jaws podcast.

20
01:00:54,791 --> 01:00:56,250
I'm your co-host, Angelo, and here with

21
01:00:56,250 --> 01:00:58,500
my co-host, Dr. David Ebert.

22
01:00:58,833 --> 01:01:00,625
Dave, this is fun.

23
01:01:00,625 --> 01:01:02,583
This is like the first husband and wife

24
01:01:02,583 --> 01:01:05,250
team that we've interviewed on multiple

25
01:01:05,250 --> 01:01:06,750
episodes by themselves.

26
01:01:07,833 --> 01:01:11,000
So Manique being on the podcast, why were

27
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:11,708
you like, we were

28
01:01:11,708 --> 01:01:12,791
adamant about having it.

29
01:01:12,791 --> 01:01:13,958
Why don't you tell us the reasons why you

30
01:01:13,958 --> 01:01:15,833
wanted to have Manique on the podcast?

31
01:01:15,833 --> 01:01:18,666
Well, we have, which is not very common

32
01:01:18,666 --> 01:01:19,250
when we come across

33
01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:20,250
husband and wife teams.

34
01:01:20,250 --> 01:01:21,916
The only one we've really had is Colin

35
01:01:21,916 --> 01:01:24,458
and Michelle who have

36
01:01:24,458 --> 01:01:25,416
been on the program.

37
01:01:25,416 --> 01:01:27,625
But they're both in shark research.

38
01:01:28,125 --> 01:01:29,125
Whereas this was a little different.

39
01:01:29,125 --> 01:01:30,375
We've had Chris Fallows has been on the

40
01:01:30,375 --> 01:01:31,416
show and he's well known

41
01:01:31,416 --> 01:01:33,166
internationally for taking,

42
01:01:33,458 --> 01:01:36,791
for filming flying white sharks is all

43
01:01:36,791 --> 01:01:38,625
safe around South Africa.

44
01:01:38,875 --> 01:01:40,083
And he's well known in

45
01:01:40,083 --> 01:01:41,208
the shark week world.

46
01:01:41,458 --> 01:01:43,458
He's did that for many, many years.

47
01:01:43,958 --> 01:01:44,791
And now he's gotten off

48
01:01:44,791 --> 01:01:45,625
into some other stuff.

49
01:01:45,833 --> 01:01:48,416
Well, kind of the, his partner, the whole

50
01:01:48,416 --> 01:01:49,708
thing is wife, Manique.

51
01:01:50,166 --> 01:01:51,958
You see her name pop up here and there,

52
01:01:51,958 --> 01:01:53,083
but we really didn't know.

53
01:01:53,083 --> 01:01:54,583
I didn't really know too much about her.

54
01:01:54,583 --> 01:01:56,250
And I thought, and she's writing shark

55
01:01:56,250 --> 01:01:57,041
books and everything.

56
01:01:57,625 --> 01:01:58,833
And I think we thought like, Hey, let's

57
01:01:58,833 --> 01:01:59,458
have her come on the

58
01:01:59,458 --> 01:02:01,041
show and share her story.

59
01:02:01,250 --> 01:02:03,958
And wow, I think we got a, this could be

60
01:02:03,958 --> 01:02:04,958
a heck of a good story.

61
01:02:04,958 --> 01:02:05,750
I think we're going to hear that.

62
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:06,208
I think so.

63
01:02:06,583 --> 01:02:07,208
I think so.

64
01:02:07,208 --> 01:02:08,625
It's going to be an amazing story because

65
01:02:08,625 --> 01:02:11,500
just like, I think what, and

66
01:02:11,500 --> 01:02:12,416
we'll talk about it in a bit,

67
01:02:12,416 --> 01:02:12,916
but I think what's

68
01:02:12,916 --> 01:02:14,166
interesting is her approach.

69
01:02:14,750 --> 01:02:16,583
She came with the tennis background,

70
01:02:16,583 --> 01:02:17,750
professional tennis background.

71
01:02:18,333 --> 01:02:19,750
So an athletic background,

72
01:02:20,208 --> 01:02:21,708
you know, professional level.

73
01:02:22,458 --> 01:02:24,416
And then having that transfer over.

74
01:02:24,416 --> 01:02:25,916
So we're going to hear all about that

75
01:02:25,916 --> 01:02:27,291
teasing him a little bit.

76
01:02:27,541 --> 01:02:28,791
But here's the interview with Manique

77
01:02:28,791 --> 01:02:30,958
fouls, talking about her journey

78
01:02:31,375 --> 01:02:33,791
into studying and working with sharks.

79
01:02:34,208 --> 01:02:35,666
Enjoy. And we'll talk to you after.

80
01:02:36,041 --> 01:02:36,750
Hey, Manique.

81
01:02:36,750 --> 01:02:38,291
Welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast.

82
01:02:38,791 --> 01:02:40,708
Are you ready to talk about sharks?

83
01:02:42,208 --> 01:02:43,708
Hey, Andrea, how's it Dave?

84
01:02:44,166 --> 01:02:46,041
I'm so ready because I get to talk about

85
01:02:46,041 --> 01:02:47,875
my two favorite things with you guys.

86
01:02:48,333 --> 01:02:50,625
And in no particular order, the first one

87
01:02:50,625 --> 01:02:52,916
is our dogs and the second one is sharks.

88
01:02:53,500 --> 01:02:55,791
So we can get down with that.

89
01:02:55,791 --> 01:02:56,583
I love that.

90
01:02:56,583 --> 01:02:57,166
I love that.

91
01:02:57,166 --> 01:02:57,333
Awesome.

92
01:02:58,416 --> 01:03:00,750
Well, I want to welcome everyone back to

93
01:03:00,750 --> 01:03:01,458
another episode of

94
01:03:01,458 --> 01:03:02,500
the Beyond Jaws podcast.

95
01:03:02,500 --> 01:03:04,250
We have a very special guest.

96
01:03:04,791 --> 01:03:06,458
Many of you know Chris fouls is a world

97
01:03:06,458 --> 01:03:07,333
renowned wildlife

98
01:03:07,333 --> 01:03:09,000
photographer whose images of breaching

99
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:10,333
white sharks have been featured

100
01:03:10,333 --> 01:03:11,666
internationally in major media.

101
01:03:12,041 --> 01:03:13,500
But you may not be as familiar with his

102
01:03:13,500 --> 01:03:15,250
wife and partner, Monique fouls,

103
01:03:15,541 --> 01:03:17,291
who has worked with Chris on white sharks

104
01:03:17,291 --> 01:03:18,208
at Seal Island in

105
01:03:18,208 --> 01:03:19,541
Falls Bay near Cape Town,

106
01:03:19,958 --> 01:03:22,166
South Africa for 22 years as a pioneering

107
01:03:22,166 --> 01:03:24,833
eco tourism owner operator, boat captain,

108
01:03:24,833 --> 01:03:26,500
photographer, field researcher.

109
01:03:27,125 --> 01:03:28,833
Monique has logged thousands of days on

110
01:03:28,833 --> 01:03:29,666
the water working with

111
01:03:29,666 --> 01:03:30,916
white sharks collecting data

112
01:03:31,125 --> 01:03:32,708
that her and Chris have contributed to

113
01:03:32,708 --> 01:03:34,625
over 20 scientific publications.

114
01:03:35,166 --> 01:03:36,375
She's also assisted Chris with his

115
01:03:36,375 --> 01:03:37,583
photographic work and spent

116
01:03:37,583 --> 01:03:39,333
hundreds of days a year at sea.

117
01:03:39,958 --> 01:03:41,416
Her work with Discovery Channel film

118
01:03:41,416 --> 01:03:42,458
crews has given Monique

119
01:03:42,458 --> 01:03:43,500
an opportunity to work with

120
01:03:43,541 --> 01:03:45,208
white sharks around the world in New

121
01:03:45,208 --> 01:03:46,250
Zealand, California,

122
01:03:46,833 --> 01:03:48,000
Massachusetts and elsewhere.

123
01:03:48,750 --> 01:03:50,083
In addition to her marine work, Monique

124
01:03:50,083 --> 01:03:51,416
spends months a year

125
01:03:51,416 --> 01:03:52,916
in the wilds of Africa

126
01:03:52,916 --> 01:03:55,083
photographing the econics most iconic

127
01:03:55,083 --> 01:03:57,166
species and she's visited all seven

128
01:03:57,166 --> 01:03:58,750
continents on multiple occasions.

129
01:03:59,458 --> 01:04:01,208
Monique's extensive field work in the

130
01:04:01,208 --> 01:04:02,083
field has given her a deep

131
01:04:02,083 --> 01:04:03,208
commitment to inspire future

132
01:04:03,208 --> 01:04:04,375
generations to protect

133
01:04:04,375 --> 01:04:05,750
these fragile environments.

134
01:04:06,291 --> 01:04:08,291
Interestingly, Monique and Chris's dogs,

135
01:04:08,583 --> 01:04:09,708
Sandy, Lucy and Brownie

136
01:04:09,708 --> 01:04:10,625
have accompanied them each day

137
01:04:11,291 --> 01:04:13,541
to seek encountering iconic wildlife

138
01:04:13,541 --> 01:04:14,625
species along the way.

139
01:04:15,083 --> 01:04:16,833
It was through these dogs that inspired

140
01:04:16,833 --> 01:04:18,750
her first book, Sandy and the Salty Sea

141
01:04:18,750 --> 01:04:20,541
Dogs, that was published in 2024.

142
01:04:21,375 --> 01:04:23,875
Her second book, titled "Falls Bay

143
01:04:23,875 --> 01:04:25,958
Adventure and Lucy and the Great White

144
01:04:25,958 --> 01:04:26,958
Sharks" is due to be

145
01:04:26,958 --> 01:04:29,500
published in July of 2026,

146
01:04:29,500 --> 01:04:30,791
which is just a week or

147
01:04:30,791 --> 01:04:31,916
two away from this recording.

148
01:04:32,375 --> 01:04:33,375
So we thought this would be a great

149
01:04:33,375 --> 01:04:35,000
opportunity to have Monique come on the

150
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:36,333
podcast to share her

151
01:04:36,333 --> 01:04:37,583
story, to share her journey,

152
01:04:38,083 --> 01:04:39,666
and to get to know her a lot better.

153
01:04:40,291 --> 01:04:41,083
And so with that,

154
01:04:41,333 --> 01:04:42,333
Monique, welcome to the show.

155
01:04:44,250 --> 01:04:45,291
Thank you, Dave, and thanks

156
01:04:45,291 --> 01:04:46,708
for the great introduction.

157
01:04:47,708 --> 01:04:50,583
You're welcome. So the first question I

158
01:04:50,583 --> 01:04:52,125
have is, how did you get interested in

159
01:04:52,125 --> 01:04:53,333
the marine environment, the

160
01:04:53,333 --> 01:04:55,625
sea, and all that fun stuff?

161
01:04:56,666 --> 01:04:58,750
It's probably not the answer you're going

162
01:04:58,750 --> 01:05:00,000
to expect, it may be the

163
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,666
answer that most people don't give.

164
01:05:01,708 --> 01:05:04,750
And it was all to do with Chris, because

165
01:05:04,750 --> 01:05:06,416
before I met Chris, I had

166
01:05:06,416 --> 01:05:07,875
never been on a boat before.

167
01:05:08,833 --> 01:05:11,250
I knew absolutely nothing about sharks.

168
01:05:12,041 --> 01:05:13,916
If I could say I probably had a slightly

169
01:05:13,916 --> 01:05:15,875
negative feeling toward sharks,

170
01:05:15,875 --> 01:05:17,333
but I thought there was only one great

171
01:05:17,333 --> 01:05:18,208
shark in the world, and

172
01:05:18,208 --> 01:05:19,000
that was a great white.

173
01:05:19,625 --> 01:05:22,916
So that is how green I was. And I'd never

174
01:05:22,916 --> 01:05:23,916
been to the bush before,

175
01:05:24,291 --> 01:05:25,833
but I really loved animals.

176
01:05:25,833 --> 01:05:27,541
So we did, you know, I had that

177
01:05:27,541 --> 01:05:30,750
affliction to wildlife and to the

178
01:05:30,750 --> 01:05:32,291
outdoors and to animals.

179
01:05:33,208 --> 01:05:37,500
And I basically was a professional tennis

180
01:05:37,500 --> 01:05:38,791
player when we first met.

181
01:05:39,500 --> 01:05:42,916
So from, let's say, about two years old,

182
01:05:42,916 --> 01:05:44,125
my whole life was tennis.

183
01:05:45,291 --> 01:05:46,791
And when I met Chris, I

184
01:05:46,791 --> 01:05:48,208
was just about to turn 21.

185
01:05:48,750 --> 01:05:50,166
And unfortunately, I'd gotten to that

186
01:05:50,166 --> 01:05:52,000
point where I wanted to be a

187
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:52,958
professional tennis player.

188
01:05:53,041 --> 01:05:55,416
But kind of the writing was on the wall

189
01:05:55,416 --> 01:05:57,208
where I wasn't going to make it.

190
01:05:57,875 --> 01:05:59,666
So, you know, I had obviously

191
01:05:59,666 --> 01:06:01,083
a big life decision to make.

192
01:06:01,875 --> 01:06:04,500
And ultimately, I decided that my mom and

193
01:06:04,500 --> 01:06:05,916
dad couldn't keep paying for me to play

194
01:06:05,916 --> 01:06:06,708
on the tour all the time.

195
01:06:07,291 --> 01:06:09,375
And it was time to make a change.

196
01:06:10,166 --> 01:06:12,958
So I didn't give up tennis for Chris, but

197
01:06:12,958 --> 01:06:14,750
I think I gave up because it was easier

198
01:06:14,750 --> 01:06:16,208
because I met Chris, to be honest.

199
01:06:17,291 --> 01:06:19,083
And then I was in the situation where I

200
01:06:19,083 --> 01:06:20,750
knew I had no idea

201
01:06:20,750 --> 01:06:21,666
what I was going to do.

202
01:06:21,708 --> 01:06:23,291
You know, I'd only know tennis my whole

203
01:06:23,291 --> 01:06:24,708
life and it was very

204
01:06:24,708 --> 01:06:26,750
daunting, you know, trying to set up,

205
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:29,583
you know, take a complete different

206
01:06:29,583 --> 01:06:30,708
direction in my life.

207
01:06:31,291 --> 01:06:32,291
And Chris said to me, you

208
01:06:32,291 --> 01:06:34,000
know what, just take it easy.

209
01:06:34,250 --> 01:06:34,791
Why don't you come

210
01:06:34,791 --> 01:06:35,791
out on the boat with me?

211
01:06:36,083 --> 01:06:37,333
Just have some fun. We

212
01:06:37,333 --> 01:06:38,208
can look at some sharks.

213
01:06:38,458 --> 01:06:39,833
We can, you know, just spend some time

214
01:06:39,833 --> 01:06:42,041
together and then you can decide and see

215
01:06:42,041 --> 01:06:42,791
where you want to go.

216
01:06:43,583 --> 01:06:46,250
And two amazing things happened again in

217
01:06:46,250 --> 01:06:47,166
no particular order.

218
01:06:47,583 --> 01:06:49,916
But I fell in love with Chris and I also

219
01:06:49,916 --> 01:06:50,791
fell in love with sharks.

220
01:06:51,500 --> 01:06:53,625
And, you know, that that really just

221
01:06:53,625 --> 01:06:56,000
started my journey into the most

222
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,208
incredible life that we've had together.

223
01:06:58,500 --> 01:07:00,250
Not just with great white sharks, but

224
01:07:00,250 --> 01:07:02,625
with a huge variety of marine wildlife

225
01:07:02,625 --> 01:07:04,125
and also wildlife around

226
01:07:04,125 --> 01:07:05,833
the world and in Africa.

227
01:07:06,666 --> 01:07:08,375
So it brings up a couple of questions.

228
01:07:08,375 --> 01:07:09,666
One is obviously you're from South

229
01:07:09,666 --> 01:07:11,208
Africa. Where did you what part of South

230
01:07:11,208 --> 01:07:12,208
Africa did you grow up in?

231
01:07:13,458 --> 01:07:15,000
So originally from Cape Town.

232
01:07:15,583 --> 01:07:18,250
So the ocean was right on my doorstep,

233
01:07:18,250 --> 01:07:19,500
but it's still I think I was

234
01:07:19,500 --> 01:07:20,958
I was all consumed in tennis.

235
01:07:21,166 --> 01:07:23,250
So I never I never had the opportunities

236
01:07:23,250 --> 01:07:25,750
to explore that side of the world. But

237
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:27,625
yeah, so in Cape Town.

238
01:07:27,916 --> 01:07:29,333
Can you talk a little bit? Can you just

239
01:07:29,333 --> 01:07:30,083
talk a little bit about

240
01:07:30,083 --> 01:07:32,166
that commitment for tennis?

241
01:07:32,166 --> 01:07:33,791
I had friends who went to university for

242
01:07:33,791 --> 01:07:35,916
tennis and like they were

243
01:07:35,916 --> 01:07:37,791
always playing like after school,

244
01:07:37,791 --> 01:07:40,500
before school, like it is quite the

245
01:07:40,500 --> 01:07:42,708
commitment as an individual

246
01:07:42,708 --> 01:07:43,708
because it's an individual.

247
01:07:44,250 --> 01:07:45,916
A lot of times it's an individual sport.

248
01:07:46,708 --> 01:07:48,416
What's that that commitment like

249
01:07:48,416 --> 01:07:50,291
throughout a childhood?

250
01:07:51,458 --> 01:07:53,291
You know, how difficult it is to stay

251
01:07:53,291 --> 01:07:55,875
committed, especially to to get too close

252
01:07:55,875 --> 01:07:58,083
or at that level of professional tennis.

253
01:07:58,291 --> 01:08:01,750
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was all consuming.

254
01:08:01,958 --> 01:08:05,166
It was my entire life. I wouldn't say I

255
01:08:05,166 --> 01:08:06,208
didn't have a childhood

256
01:08:06,208 --> 01:08:07,458
because, you know, I did.

257
01:08:07,541 --> 01:08:10,041
But, you know, school holidays were were

258
01:08:10,041 --> 01:08:12,791
spent traveling around the country and

259
01:08:12,791 --> 01:08:14,083
going and playing tennis tournaments.

260
01:08:14,583 --> 01:08:17,291
And after school, I would say from eight

261
01:08:17,291 --> 01:08:18,125
years old, I was already

262
01:08:18,125 --> 01:08:19,500
training four hours a day.

263
01:08:20,041 --> 01:08:21,416
And then when I was really getting into

264
01:08:21,416 --> 01:08:23,458
it in training periods, it would be six

265
01:08:23,458 --> 01:08:25,083
hours on the court and then another two

266
01:08:25,083 --> 01:08:26,250
hours of conditioning training.

267
01:08:26,875 --> 01:08:29,833
So it was I mean, I didn't really think

268
01:08:29,833 --> 01:08:30,541
about it, to be honest,

269
01:08:30,541 --> 01:08:32,166
because it was my passion.

270
01:08:32,291 --> 01:08:35,125
And I had very specific goals in mind.

271
01:08:35,500 --> 01:08:37,708
And I think my character is that I'm a

272
01:08:37,708 --> 01:08:39,875
I'm a very, very hardworking person.

273
01:08:39,875 --> 01:08:41,750
I'm very dedicated and I don't mind

274
01:08:41,750 --> 01:08:43,333
suffering if that

275
01:08:43,333 --> 01:08:46,041
makes any sense. So, yeah.

276
01:08:46,375 --> 01:08:49,125
So is that is that I was good to do all

277
01:08:49,125 --> 01:08:50,666
of that. You know, I was I

278
01:08:50,666 --> 01:08:51,750
was good to do all of that.

279
01:08:52,583 --> 01:08:54,375
But, you know, at the end of the day, I

280
01:08:54,375 --> 01:08:59,125
got I got to 20 and I dedicated, you

281
01:08:59,125 --> 01:09:01,125
know, fully 12 years of, you know,

282
01:09:01,625 --> 01:09:03,083
a very, very serious tennis

283
01:09:03,083 --> 01:09:04,875
with a little bit of schoolwork.

284
01:09:04,875 --> 01:09:07,500
There wasn't much to tennis.

285
01:09:07,875 --> 01:09:09,791
And I got to end of the day and it was

286
01:09:09,791 --> 01:09:11,041
finished and there was nothing there.

287
01:09:11,666 --> 01:09:13,125
Whereas if you think about it, it takes

288
01:09:13,125 --> 01:09:14,375
12 years to become a doctor.

289
01:09:14,916 --> 01:09:16,166
And it doesn't matter if you first in

290
01:09:16,166 --> 01:09:17,875
your class or your last in your class,

291
01:09:18,166 --> 01:09:18,875
you're still a doctor.

292
01:09:19,916 --> 01:09:22,083
So, you know, all the ingredients were

293
01:09:22,083 --> 01:09:23,250
there to make it successful.

294
01:09:23,791 --> 01:09:25,666
And so much went into it.

295
01:09:25,666 --> 01:09:28,291
But the end of the day, you know, I

296
01:09:28,291 --> 01:09:29,333
thought it came to nothing.

297
01:09:30,166 --> 01:09:32,875
But actually, you know, now I can look

298
01:09:32,875 --> 01:09:33,833
back in hindsight and

299
01:09:33,833 --> 01:09:35,166
there's so many life lessons that

300
01:09:35,166 --> 01:09:37,333
I learned from tennis. So it was dealing

301
01:09:37,333 --> 01:09:38,958
with pressure, you know,

302
01:09:39,166 --> 01:09:41,416
work ethic, discipline,

303
01:09:41,416 --> 01:09:44,458
you know, you know, things that equip you

304
01:09:44,458 --> 01:09:45,916
really well in life. And I

305
01:09:45,916 --> 01:09:46,958
know that all those lessons

306
01:09:46,958 --> 01:09:49,458
that I learned with tennis have helped us

307
01:09:49,458 --> 01:09:50,333
to become a success

308
01:09:50,333 --> 01:09:52,250
together. So I'm really proud

309
01:09:52,250 --> 01:09:54,625
that I could at least take that from what

310
01:09:54,625 --> 01:09:56,416
was a failure and into

311
01:09:56,416 --> 01:09:57,208
something that's been really

312
01:09:57,208 --> 01:09:58,541
positive in my life.

313
01:09:58,541 --> 01:10:00,958
I'm glad I'm glad you you had the chance

314
01:10:00,958 --> 01:10:01,833
to reflect on that

315
01:10:01,833 --> 01:10:03,166
because I see that I got coach.

316
01:10:03,375 --> 01:10:05,291
I coach hockey at, you know, House League

317
01:10:05,291 --> 01:10:08,500
level and I coach I've coached American

318
01:10:08,500 --> 01:10:10,500
football at the rep level.

319
01:10:10,500 --> 01:10:14,958
And and you see the the kids who want it

320
01:10:14,958 --> 01:10:16,000
badly, like want to

321
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:17,125
play at that higher level.

322
01:10:17,458 --> 01:10:19,458
There's a difference in their thought

323
01:10:19,458 --> 01:10:21,791
process and how they approach, you know,

324
01:10:21,791 --> 01:10:22,458
the game and how they

325
01:10:22,500 --> 01:10:24,583
approach life is like, OK, I'm ready to

326
01:10:24,583 --> 01:10:26,541
work. If I want this, I'm ready to work

327
01:10:26,541 --> 01:10:27,958
for it. If I if I don't

328
01:10:27,958 --> 01:10:29,125
want it, I'm not going to work for it.

329
01:10:29,125 --> 01:10:30,208
But if I really want this,

330
01:10:30,208 --> 01:10:31,375
I'm ready to work for it.

331
01:10:32,083 --> 01:10:34,208
And this is what I wanted to kind of get

332
01:10:34,208 --> 01:10:35,791
from you is is being able

333
01:10:35,791 --> 01:10:37,083
to reflect back and be like,

334
01:10:37,083 --> 01:10:38,750
OK, yeah, this is I had a really good I

335
01:10:38,750 --> 01:10:39,625
had a good time. Obviously,

336
01:10:39,625 --> 01:10:40,833
there's some sacrifices, but,

337
01:10:40,958 --> 01:10:43,083
you know, you had a great career. You you

338
01:10:43,083 --> 01:10:44,166
almost made it. It was

339
01:10:44,166 --> 01:10:45,750
close. But the discipline that

340
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:47,666
you learn, the hard work that pays off

341
01:10:47,666 --> 01:10:49,166
and and all this stuff, even

342
01:10:49,166 --> 01:10:51,208
though your overall goal was,

343
01:10:51,458 --> 01:10:53,958
you know, quote unquote, a failure, you

344
01:10:53,958 --> 01:10:56,125
still got so much out of it and your

345
01:10:56,125 --> 01:10:57,125
character from then.

346
01:10:57,458 --> 01:10:59,875
And then like and then when you when when

347
01:10:59,875 --> 01:11:00,666
that switch, like I said,

348
01:11:00,666 --> 01:11:01,625
I know a lot of athletes

349
01:11:01,625 --> 01:11:04,291
in their 20s when say things don't work

350
01:11:04,291 --> 01:11:05,666
out or they've come to the

351
01:11:05,666 --> 01:11:06,833
end of their their athletic

352
01:11:06,833 --> 01:11:09,541
career for one reason or another. They

353
01:11:09,541 --> 01:11:10,791
have trouble picking up

354
01:11:10,791 --> 01:11:12,625
something next because they

355
01:11:12,625 --> 01:11:14,625
they're so used to dedicating something,

356
01:11:14,625 --> 01:11:16,833
you know, like to a sport or

357
01:11:16,833 --> 01:11:18,791
to. Yeah, they had a purpose.

358
01:11:19,291 --> 01:11:23,291
When you when you met Chris, like, did

359
01:11:23,291 --> 01:11:25,000
you have a did you have something in mind

360
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:26,833
before you met Chris and before you were

361
01:11:26,833 --> 01:11:29,083
introduced to this sort of new adventure

362
01:11:29,083 --> 01:11:31,416
that you were taking? And if you did,

363
01:11:31,416 --> 01:11:33,916
like, what was that? And and or was it

364
01:11:33,916 --> 01:11:35,750
was it with Chris? And that's how you

365
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:37,375
approached the same way you approached

366
01:11:37,375 --> 01:11:38,166
tennis. You approached

367
01:11:38,166 --> 01:11:39,583
this this new adventure.

368
01:11:40,833 --> 01:11:43,708
Yeah, so I didn't have another plan. And

369
01:11:43,708 --> 01:11:47,125
I think that was the scary thing. And

370
01:11:47,125 --> 01:11:48,666
that's when I said, you know, I didn't I

371
01:11:48,666 --> 01:11:50,583
didn't give up tennis for Chris, I gave

372
01:11:50,583 --> 01:11:52,458
up tennis, partly because of Chris,

373
01:11:52,458 --> 01:11:55,166
because I think he he showed me that you

374
01:11:55,166 --> 01:11:57,166
could have something else in life. It

375
01:11:57,166 --> 01:11:59,875
didn't have to just be tennis. So, you

376
01:11:59,875 --> 01:12:01,916
know, trying to to get over that, that

377
01:12:01,916 --> 01:12:04,541
that scary part of what is next. That's

378
01:12:04,541 --> 01:12:07,208
where you really helped me. And and I

379
01:12:07,208 --> 01:12:08,625
think where I was really lucky is,

380
01:12:09,458 --> 01:12:11,041
so you guys have spoken to Chris and you

381
01:12:11,041 --> 01:12:12,666
know how passionate he is about sharks.

382
01:12:13,333 --> 01:12:15,875
So he's very infectious. So before I even

383
01:12:15,875 --> 01:12:18,208
saw my first great white shark, yeah, I

384
01:12:18,208 --> 01:12:20,041
mean, obviously, I was excited, you know,

385
01:12:20,458 --> 01:12:22,500
but very, very, very quickly, as I said,

386
01:12:22,500 --> 01:12:25,125
I fell in love with sharks as well. So I

387
01:12:25,125 --> 01:12:26,666
was able to pick up on a new passion.

388
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,875
And, you know, you know, pretty early

389
01:12:29,875 --> 01:12:32,125
into stopping playing tennis. And I think

390
01:12:32,125 --> 01:12:33,666
that made a big difference in my life,

391
01:12:33,666 --> 01:12:35,750
because I think if I didn't have

392
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:37,291
something that I was really because

393
01:12:37,291 --> 01:12:39,916
because passion drives me, even if it's

394
01:12:39,916 --> 01:12:41,708
in a quiet way, you know, I have to have

395
01:12:41,708 --> 01:12:43,708
something that that I'm excited about and

396
01:12:43,708 --> 01:12:45,416
getting up in the morning and want things

397
01:12:45,416 --> 01:12:47,208
that I want to work towards and goals and

398
01:12:47,208 --> 01:12:49,000
challenges and achieving things.

399
01:12:49,458 --> 01:12:51,000
So I was lucky that I could transition

400
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:52,791
into something that would give that to

401
01:12:52,791 --> 01:12:56,250
me. So, you know, I yeah, I mean, I just

402
01:12:56,250 --> 01:12:58,000
ended up having the most incredible life

403
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,333
that continues to get incredible as we

404
01:13:00,333 --> 01:13:03,458
go, you know, I got asked one question.

405
01:13:04,083 --> 01:13:04,958
Does Chris play tennis?

406
01:13:07,125 --> 01:13:10,166
That's a raw nerve because he does. And

407
01:13:10,166 --> 01:13:13,125
he's very competitive. So we.

408
01:13:14,125 --> 01:13:17,333
And he gets a many levels, not at my

409
01:13:17,333 --> 01:13:19,291
level, but he's very good at mind games.

410
01:13:20,041 --> 01:13:22,500
So that's what he gets me. So we don't

411
01:13:22,500 --> 01:13:23,500
play very often anymore

412
01:13:23,500 --> 01:13:25,625
because it gets about me.

413
01:13:26,125 --> 01:13:29,500
Did you guys have any time? Did you

414
01:13:29,500 --> 01:13:30,125
happen to meet on a

415
01:13:30,125 --> 01:13:31,125
tennis court when you guys met?

416
01:13:31,166 --> 01:13:34,750
No, so this is actually another really

417
01:13:34,750 --> 01:13:36,375
bizarre answer. But the two of us

418
01:13:36,375 --> 01:13:39,791
actually made it a funeral. So I know I

419
01:13:39,791 --> 01:13:41,791
know I'm not I'm laughing. I'm laughing.

420
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:44,541
But it's a shame. Sadly, you know, I'm

421
01:13:44,541 --> 01:13:45,875
mutual friend that passed away.

422
01:13:45,875 --> 01:13:49,291
It was a family member of mine and was

423
01:13:49,291 --> 01:13:51,541
Chris's next door neighbor. Graham had a

424
01:13:51,541 --> 01:13:53,458
great sense of humor. And he was he was

425
01:13:53,458 --> 01:13:54,125
actually very fond of both of us.

426
01:13:54,166 --> 01:13:57,250
But we because of my tennis and because I

427
01:13:57,250 --> 01:13:59,291
was away all the time, our paths never

428
01:13:59,291 --> 01:14:01,250
crossed. So, you know, my grand new

429
01:14:01,250 --> 01:14:03,375
Chris, my Chris's mom, you my mom and

430
01:14:03,375 --> 01:14:04,583
dad, it was all this crossover.

431
01:14:05,083 --> 01:14:06,958
But the two of us had never had never met

432
01:14:06,958 --> 01:14:09,791
before. So a little bit of a strange

433
01:14:09,791 --> 01:14:12,333
meeting. But, you know, it was it was an

434
01:14:12,333 --> 01:14:14,708
amazing start to a sad, sad end.

435
01:14:15,208 --> 01:14:17,500
Yeah, yeah. That's good. We know we've

436
01:14:17,500 --> 01:14:19,250
had people out there, you know, not at

437
01:14:19,250 --> 01:14:21,333
your level, but a lot of college athletes

438
01:14:21,333 --> 01:14:22,416
that have gone into the

439
01:14:22,416 --> 01:14:23,500
shark world and stuff.

440
01:14:24,166 --> 01:14:25,500
And I think we wanted them to. I wrestled

441
01:14:25,500 --> 01:14:30,166
through college and the skills I know we

442
01:14:30,166 --> 01:14:32,083
everyone who have had on the show and we

443
01:14:32,083 --> 01:14:33,666
talked about having just a special like

444
01:14:33,666 --> 01:14:36,750
athlete show sometime about just the

445
01:14:36,750 --> 01:14:38,708
traits you pick up like discipline,

446
01:14:39,041 --> 01:14:41,083
commitment, passion and stuff.

447
01:14:41,541 --> 01:14:43,541
You know, because your your athletic

448
01:14:43,541 --> 01:14:45,833
career typically is going to end in your

449
01:14:45,833 --> 01:14:47,875
20s for the most part. Yeah. If you're

450
01:14:47,875 --> 01:14:49,125
rare, if you can get a lifespan.

451
01:14:49,166 --> 01:14:52,625
Yeah. And so but those but those traits

452
01:14:52,625 --> 01:14:54,416
that you touched on a lot of those just

453
01:14:54,416 --> 01:14:56,625
now with your commitment to tennis, it

454
01:14:56,625 --> 01:14:58,791
carries over into whatever profession you

455
01:14:58,791 --> 01:15:01,291
go into. And those are skills that are,

456
01:15:01,875 --> 01:15:02,958
you know, you have to learn like through

457
01:15:02,958 --> 01:15:04,791
early growing up and

458
01:15:04,791 --> 01:15:05,791
stuff. Really, I think.

459
01:15:06,125 --> 01:15:08,875
Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm very I'm very I'm

460
01:15:08,875 --> 01:15:10,875
very grateful to tennis for that. And it

461
01:15:10,875 --> 01:15:12,375
took me a little while to get to that

462
01:15:12,375 --> 01:15:14,125
point to realize what I did get from it.

463
01:15:14,125 --> 01:15:15,125
But it was a huge amount.

464
01:15:16,125 --> 01:15:18,291
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure growing up

465
01:15:18,291 --> 01:15:19,291
when you're doing tennis when you're

466
01:15:19,291 --> 01:15:20,916
young, when you're in your early teens,

467
01:15:20,916 --> 01:15:22,000
you probably never imagined you're going

468
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:23,291
to be traveling around the

469
01:15:23,291 --> 01:15:24,291
world looking for sharks.

470
01:15:26,125 --> 01:15:28,125
I still think about it. And I think

471
01:15:28,125 --> 01:15:30,541
that's kind of crazy. That's a great

472
01:15:30,541 --> 01:15:32,208
story. Actually, just how that whole

473
01:15:32,208 --> 01:15:33,958
trajectory, how you went from doing one

474
01:15:33,958 --> 01:15:35,583
thing you were so committed to now going

475
01:15:35,583 --> 01:15:37,125
to this whole other whole other.

476
01:15:37,166 --> 01:15:41,416
Yeah. And I actually I like to share that

477
01:15:41,416 --> 01:15:43,791
story about not knowing anything about

478
01:15:43,791 --> 01:15:45,791
sharks and being so green that I've never

479
01:15:45,791 --> 01:15:47,625
been on a boat before because what it

480
01:15:47,625 --> 01:15:49,291
allowed me to do is that when I did go

481
01:15:49,291 --> 01:15:51,458
out there, I didn't have any preconceived

482
01:15:51,458 --> 01:15:53,125
ideas about sharks, you know, it's not

483
01:15:53,125 --> 01:15:54,583
that I get studied them and read

484
01:15:54,583 --> 01:15:56,416
textbooks and there was, you know,

485
01:15:56,666 --> 01:15:58,041
information that was ingrained in there

486
01:15:58,041 --> 01:15:59,125
that should be about sharks.

487
01:15:59,125 --> 01:16:02,958
I learned by what I saw being in the

488
01:16:02,958 --> 01:16:04,875
field and spending time with them. And I

489
01:16:04,875 --> 01:16:06,916
didn't question anything. So so

490
01:16:06,916 --> 01:16:08,750
everything that I learned was directly

491
01:16:08,750 --> 01:16:10,875
from the sharks themselves, which I think

492
01:16:10,875 --> 01:16:13,958
is quite a unique place to be because you

493
01:16:13,958 --> 01:16:16,250
can see it face value what they are, who

494
01:16:16,250 --> 01:16:18,375
they are, what they're doing and not have

495
01:16:18,375 --> 01:16:19,791
little voices in your background telling

496
01:16:19,791 --> 01:16:21,750
me, no, it shouldn't be this or they

497
01:16:21,750 --> 01:16:23,583
can't do that or whatever. So it was a

498
01:16:23,583 --> 01:16:24,625
very real experience

499
01:16:24,625 --> 01:16:25,125
that I had with them.

500
01:16:26,125 --> 01:16:28,958
What was your the first was the first

501
01:16:28,958 --> 01:16:30,250
when you first time you went out with

502
01:16:30,250 --> 01:16:31,541
Chris took you out and you saw a white

503
01:16:31,541 --> 01:16:32,208
shark, what was your

504
01:16:32,208 --> 01:16:33,333
reaction? What do you think?

505
01:16:34,375 --> 01:16:35,583
What you didn't see a shark

506
01:16:35,583 --> 01:16:37,000
the first time we went out.

507
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:42,666
But that's okay. I was willing to hang in

508
01:16:42,666 --> 01:16:44,875
there. So actually the first the first

509
01:16:44,875 --> 01:16:46,750
time I saw a great white was one

510
01:16:46,750 --> 01:16:50,333
breaching on a decoy. So it happened in,

511
01:16:50,333 --> 01:16:53,000
you know, the blink of an eye. And I

512
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:53,916
don't know if I really saw

513
01:16:53,916 --> 01:16:55,125
it because it happened so far.

514
01:16:55,166 --> 01:17:06,791
So I think that was the first time I saw

515
01:17:06,791 --> 01:17:08,791
a great white. But then the second time

516
01:17:08,791 --> 01:17:10,666
was actually a shark coming up to the

517
01:17:10,666 --> 01:17:13,125
boat. And yeah, I mean, it's just so special to see them as they they come up really slowly to the boat.

518
01:17:13,125 --> 01:17:21,291
They gently cruise around and they have

519
01:17:21,291 --> 01:17:23,291
an incredible presence about them. So

520
01:17:23,291 --> 01:17:25,833
with a lot of prepped from Chris's

521
01:17:25,833 --> 01:17:28,541
passion, I was ready to see them. And

522
01:17:28,541 --> 01:17:32,125
yeah, I was in total all just, yeah, just completely blown away by seeing them.

523
01:17:33,125 --> 01:17:37,750
And so I know Cape Town is a big kind of

524
01:17:37,750 --> 01:17:39,916
a lot of I mean, I lived in Cape Town for

525
01:17:39,916 --> 01:17:42,333
years and it was just I know like surfing

526
01:17:42,333 --> 01:17:45,625
sailing water. Did you do anything that

527
01:17:45,625 --> 01:17:47,083
go to the you must have gone to the beach

528
01:17:47,083 --> 01:17:48,333
or something. Did you

529
01:17:48,333 --> 01:17:49,416
ever think about sharks?

530
01:17:49,416 --> 01:17:52,458
I'm actually I'm afraid of waves. I don't

531
01:17:52,458 --> 01:17:55,583
know why. So I would kind of go into the

532
01:17:55,583 --> 01:17:57,333
water and just I'm happy in the water,

533
01:17:57,333 --> 01:17:59,416
but not big waves. So I would just dunk

534
01:17:59,416 --> 01:18:01,625
myself and then run out. But no water

535
01:18:01,625 --> 01:18:02,125
sport. So I would just go into the water and just go into the water.

536
01:18:02,125 --> 01:18:04,041
What's nothing like that. So like when I

537
01:18:04,041 --> 01:18:04,875
tell you I was green,

538
01:18:05,208 --> 01:18:06,333
I was I was so green.

539
01:18:07,208 --> 01:18:08,916
It's hard to believe he grew up in Cape

540
01:18:08,916 --> 01:18:11,000
Town, but that's just my reminiscing

541
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:11,791
because it was just such a

542
01:18:11,791 --> 01:18:14,041
water sport activity. Yeah.

543
01:18:14,291 --> 01:18:16,041
Go on like surfing. Say I was just all

544
01:18:16,041 --> 01:18:17,500
it's that's all stuff I remember doing

545
01:18:17,500 --> 01:18:20,375
besides sharks. Yeah. Yeah. I think I was

546
01:18:20,375 --> 01:18:21,125
on the tennis court way too much.

547
01:18:22,125 --> 01:18:23,916
Probably. Yeah. I think it's a really

548
01:18:23,916 --> 01:18:25,375
good perspective though, too, because

549
01:18:25,375 --> 01:18:27,666
being on the tennis court so much being

550
01:18:27,666 --> 01:18:30,791
like living in a coastal city and not

551
01:18:30,791 --> 01:18:32,458
necessarily going to the ocean a lot. I'm

552
01:18:32,458 --> 01:18:33,625
sure there are there are a lot of people

553
01:18:33,625 --> 01:18:35,208
who are like that who live in Cape Town

554
01:18:35,208 --> 01:18:36,625
or live in places all

555
01:18:36,625 --> 01:18:37,125
over the world that don't.

556
01:18:37,125 --> 01:18:39,500
I think on this show we always think oh

557
01:18:39,500 --> 01:18:41,291
well yeah of course if you're along the

558
01:18:41,291 --> 01:18:43,375
coast you're in the ocean all the time

559
01:18:43,375 --> 01:18:45,291
and I think it's interesting like what

560
01:18:45,291 --> 01:18:47,208
was your you said you know you had a

561
01:18:47,208 --> 01:18:50,250
slightly sort of negative outlook on

562
01:18:50,250 --> 01:18:52,416
sharks in general like growing up in a

563
01:18:52,416 --> 01:18:53,125
place like Cape Town.

564
01:18:53,166 --> 01:18:57,458
You know, I'm sure sharks are like where

565
01:18:57,458 --> 01:18:59,291
sharks talked about a lot like just in

566
01:18:59,291 --> 01:19:01,333
your natural life like what is the like

567
01:19:01,333 --> 01:19:02,708
from your perspective from your

568
01:19:02,708 --> 01:19:04,375
experience like what was the overall

569
01:19:04,375 --> 01:19:07,375
outlook on you know even great white

570
01:19:07,375 --> 01:19:09,250
sharks which is what you thought like

571
01:19:09,250 --> 01:19:10,958
that's pretty much all there is in there

572
01:19:10,958 --> 01:19:12,541
like what was your like what was the

573
01:19:12,541 --> 01:19:13,791
overall look from you and

574
01:19:13,791 --> 01:19:14,125
the people you interacted with.

575
01:19:15,125 --> 01:19:19,125
It was that sharks were dangerous. That's

576
01:19:19,125 --> 01:19:20,500
that's what I would hear all the time.

577
01:19:21,375 --> 01:19:23,458
So, you know, I'm not delving deep into

578
01:19:23,458 --> 01:19:25,916
the subject in the filters that's that's

579
01:19:25,916 --> 01:19:28,083
what was coming through to me. So I

580
01:19:28,083 --> 01:19:29,541
didn't spend a lot of time thinking about

581
01:19:29,541 --> 01:19:31,958
it because you know as Dave was asking I

582
01:19:31,958 --> 01:19:33,791
didn't spend time in the ocean. So that's

583
01:19:33,791 --> 01:19:35,125
probably why also wasn't.

584
01:19:35,125 --> 01:19:39,166
It exposed it that much but yeah

585
01:19:39,166 --> 01:19:41,750
definitely that sharks were dangerous. So

586
01:19:41,750 --> 01:19:43,750
we'll get to it but that was one of the

587
01:19:43,750 --> 01:19:45,666
big reasons for writing the Lucy and the

588
01:19:45,666 --> 01:19:46,791
great white shark book is

589
01:19:46,791 --> 01:19:48,125
because of the fear of sharks.

590
01:19:48,625 --> 01:19:50,708
Right. And then when you met Chris and

591
01:19:50,708 --> 01:19:52,708
Chris is telling you hey the sharks are

592
01:19:52,708 --> 01:19:54,125
amazing like they're really cool. You got to come out and see this.

593
01:19:54,166 --> 01:19:57,125
Were you thinking like this guy's just

594
01:19:57,125 --> 01:19:58,875
crazy to think that like after everybody

595
01:19:58,875 --> 01:20:00,708
else telling me that sharks are dangerous

596
01:20:00,708 --> 01:20:02,875
and the whole perception and then here is

597
01:20:02,875 --> 01:20:04,166
Chris is like going and taking

598
01:20:04,166 --> 01:20:06,958
photographs and interacting with sharks.

599
01:20:07,375 --> 01:20:08,541
You know obviously not in the water

600
01:20:08,541 --> 01:20:10,333
anything but seeing the sharks like he's

601
01:20:10,333 --> 01:20:11,000
got to be nuts.

602
01:20:11,416 --> 01:20:12,125
That's what I would think.

603
01:20:13,125 --> 01:20:15,416
I was I was surprised because you know

604
01:20:15,416 --> 01:20:17,708
when we met at the funeral so it was at

605
01:20:17,708 --> 01:20:20,041
the wake afterwards he came up to me and

606
01:20:20,041 --> 01:20:21,541
you know he was chatting and he said what

607
01:20:21,541 --> 01:20:24,000
it what do you do and and I said well I'm

608
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:25,791
a professional tennis player and that

609
01:20:25,791 --> 01:20:27,291
always would stop people on the track.

610
01:20:27,291 --> 01:20:28,916
It was like a nice little card you know

611
01:20:28,916 --> 01:20:31,208
and I was always expecting like the usual

612
01:20:31,208 --> 01:20:33,791
response. You know I'm an accountant or

613
01:20:33,791 --> 01:20:35,333
I'm a this or that and I was kind of

614
01:20:35,333 --> 01:20:37,583
waiting for that and then he's like well

615
01:20:37,583 --> 01:20:38,625
I work with great white

616
01:20:38,625 --> 01:20:40,125
sharks and then I was like oh.

617
01:20:40,166 --> 01:20:43,583
I was so different you know I didn't

618
01:20:43,583 --> 01:20:45,333
think he was crazy I was just like oh my

619
01:20:45,333 --> 01:20:47,291
gosh that is really different like you

620
01:20:47,291 --> 01:20:48,833
know that that's that's what struck me

621
01:20:48,833 --> 01:20:51,125
because I think I was used to also being

622
01:20:51,125 --> 01:20:52,541
the different one doing something

623
01:20:52,541 --> 01:20:54,291
different and it was nice to connect with

624
01:20:54,291 --> 01:20:55,666
someone who's also doing something

625
01:20:55,666 --> 01:20:57,750
completely different and not mainstream

626
01:20:57,750 --> 01:20:59,708
so yeah so that to me was great.

627
01:21:00,500 --> 01:21:02,250
Yeah for sure that's that's always a show

628
01:21:02,250 --> 01:21:04,166
stopper I can yeah I can speak from

629
01:21:04,166 --> 01:21:05,875
Chris's perspective on that one that

630
01:21:05,875 --> 01:21:08,291
that's always a good it's a good it's a

631
01:21:08,291 --> 01:21:09,291
good line it's a good

632
01:21:09,291 --> 01:21:10,708
line when you're young was.

633
01:21:11,125 --> 01:21:12,791
It was me initially.

634
01:21:13,125 --> 01:21:14,333
So yeah.

635
01:21:14,333 --> 01:21:18,708
Yeah so so you start going out with Chris

636
01:21:18,708 --> 01:21:20,791
and and just kind of experience the white

637
01:21:20,791 --> 01:21:24,333
shark and and everything and and so it's

638
01:21:24,333 --> 01:21:25,625
just sort of evolve while you're going

639
01:21:25,625 --> 01:21:26,958
out there thinking like hey I can

640
01:21:26,958 --> 01:21:29,166
contribute here and do some stuff and

641
01:21:29,166 --> 01:21:30,875
that was it's how that

642
01:21:30,875 --> 01:21:33,125
whole thing come about.

643
01:21:34,333 --> 01:21:36,583
So you know I think it goes to

644
01:21:36,583 --> 01:21:38,000
understanding that Chris is a very

645
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,875
generous person and he he loves to share

646
01:21:40,875 --> 01:21:44,375
things especially experiences so he was

647
01:21:44,375 --> 01:21:46,166
very keen for me to come out and see his

648
01:21:46,166 --> 01:21:48,458
world and share it and then I just think

649
01:21:48,458 --> 01:21:49,916
when you could see that you know I was

650
01:21:49,916 --> 01:21:51,125
really getting into it and really

651
01:21:51,125 --> 01:21:52,916
enjoying it and I didn't mind getting up

652
01:21:52,916 --> 01:21:54,125
early in the morning and I didn't mind.

653
01:21:54,166 --> 01:21:56,125
You know getting wet on the board with

654
01:21:56,125 --> 01:21:57,875
all the sea spray and you know that you

655
01:21:57,875 --> 01:21:59,791
know that I was pretty pretty game to

656
01:21:59,791 --> 01:22:02,583
most things I think he just wanted to

657
01:22:02,583 --> 01:22:06,041
share it with me and I think as our

658
01:22:06,041 --> 01:22:08,958
relationship sort of evolved it just

659
01:22:08,958 --> 01:22:10,625
always been on the boat and be with the

660
01:22:10,625 --> 01:22:12,750
sharks was just it was just always was

661
01:22:12,750 --> 01:22:15,166
always with us and and I think you know I

662
01:22:15,166 --> 01:22:16,791
mean we've been working together our

663
01:22:16,791 --> 01:22:18,791
entire life that we that we've known each

664
01:22:18,791 --> 01:22:20,625
other and I think the fact that we can

665
01:22:20,625 --> 01:22:22,208
work together is because we started off

666
01:22:22,208 --> 01:22:23,166
from the very beginning.

667
01:22:24,125 --> 01:22:27,666
So you know the navigation was always

668
01:22:27,666 --> 01:22:30,708
he's always the big ideas guy he's going

669
01:22:30,708 --> 01:22:32,000
out there he's got all the initiative

670
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:34,708
he's you know always thinking on new

671
01:22:34,708 --> 01:22:36,083
things that he could do and trying new

672
01:22:36,083 --> 01:22:37,958
things and I'm kind of like the nuts and

673
01:22:37,958 --> 01:22:40,583
bolts that comes behind and sort of like

674
01:22:40,583 --> 01:22:43,583
puts it all together you know so he he

675
01:22:43,583 --> 01:22:45,250
has strengths that I don't have and then

676
01:22:45,250 --> 01:22:46,791
I have strengths that that that he

677
01:22:46,791 --> 01:22:48,583
doesn't have and and I think the great

678
01:22:48,583 --> 01:22:50,166
thing is that when we are there we not

679
01:22:50,166 --> 01:22:51,666
competing with each other we

680
01:22:51,666 --> 01:22:53,750
complementing each other and I think

681
01:22:53,750 --> 01:22:54,125
that's why I think it's a very good thing to be able to do that and I think that's why we're very

682
01:22:54,125 --> 01:22:55,125
very happy with how we've had such a such

683
01:22:55,125 --> 01:22:56,916
a great relationship and why we've also

684
01:22:56,916 --> 01:22:58,583
been had such a great working

685
01:22:58,583 --> 01:23:00,458
relationship as well because we both

686
01:23:00,458 --> 01:23:02,375
bring different things to the party and

687
01:23:02,375 --> 01:23:05,125
and I'm so happy for Chris to you know to

688
01:23:05,125 --> 01:23:07,458
you know to be the guy on on you know

689
01:23:07,458 --> 01:23:09,375
front and center you know he's he speaks

690
01:23:09,375 --> 01:23:11,375
so well and you know he's got the

691
01:23:11,375 --> 01:23:13,416
pressure of taking the photographs and

692
01:23:13,416 --> 01:23:14,791
I've got the pressure of making sure the

693
01:23:14,791 --> 01:23:16,791
boats in the right place or that the

694
01:23:16,791 --> 01:23:18,708
sharks you know how I'm handing the bait

695
01:23:18,708 --> 01:23:22,666
right and yeah so I just I just think we

696
01:23:22,666 --> 01:23:24,125
complement very well.

697
01:23:24,541 --> 01:23:26,791
Chris already had Chris already been out

698
01:23:26,791 --> 01:23:28,500
there a bit on his white shark stuff when

699
01:23:28,500 --> 01:23:30,666
you guys met he was already sort of a

700
01:23:30,666 --> 01:23:32,500
little bit established with doing some of

701
01:23:32,500 --> 01:23:33,291
the shark week stuff.

702
01:23:34,125 --> 01:23:36,541
So I'm I'm I missed I missed the first

703
01:23:36,541 --> 01:23:40,291
few years so he was you know he saw the

704
01:23:40,291 --> 01:23:41,791
breaching sharks at Seal Island for the

705
01:23:41,791 --> 01:23:44,291
first time in 1996 and then we met in

706
01:23:44,291 --> 01:23:47,750
1999 and 2000 was my first season so I

707
01:23:47,750 --> 01:23:49,833
probably missed the first five years but

708
01:23:49,833 --> 01:23:52,125
you know the business was in its infancy.

709
01:23:52,125 --> 01:23:54,833
So I was in the beginning stages of that

710
01:23:54,833 --> 01:23:58,166
and the other amazing thing is you know

711
01:23:58,166 --> 01:24:00,041
at Seal Island like everybody now knows

712
01:24:00,041 --> 01:24:01,958
about the predation about the sharks

713
01:24:01,958 --> 01:24:04,875
hunting the seals they knew we know now

714
01:24:04,875 --> 01:24:06,875
that it's the young of the year seal that

715
01:24:06,875 --> 01:24:09,291
gets attacked you know nearly 90% of the

716
01:24:09,291 --> 01:24:11,166
time what the weather conditions are all

717
01:24:11,166 --> 01:24:13,041
of that but when we were out there in

718
01:24:13,041 --> 01:24:14,750
those early years nobody

719
01:24:14,750 --> 01:24:15,125
knew anything about it.

720
01:24:15,125 --> 01:24:19,000
So we had this incredible opportunity of

721
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:21,416
having an open book in front of us and it

722
01:24:21,416 --> 01:24:24,541
was up to us to record all that data and

723
01:24:24,541 --> 01:24:26,500
then start seeing the patterns and

724
01:24:26,500 --> 01:24:29,041
basically learn the incredible things

725
01:24:29,041 --> 01:24:30,500
that were happening at Seal Island and

726
01:24:30,500 --> 01:24:32,458
when I look back on it now you know

727
01:24:32,458 --> 01:24:33,875
there's not many people in the world that

728
01:24:33,875 --> 01:24:36,083
have that opportunity that from almost

729
01:24:36,083 --> 01:24:38,708
from day one as I said you there to write

730
01:24:38,708 --> 01:24:40,791
that story and you there to make those

731
01:24:40,791 --> 01:24:42,125
observations and try and learn what's happening.

732
01:24:42,125 --> 01:24:45,708
So it's one of probably that's going to

733
01:24:45,708 --> 01:24:47,125
be the most part of thing in my whole

734
01:24:47,125 --> 01:24:49,166
life that we were there at that time and

735
01:24:49,166 --> 01:24:52,500
we were able to to kind of navigate what

736
01:24:52,500 --> 01:24:54,166
was actually happening at Seal Island.

737
01:24:54,708 --> 01:24:57,208
You actually are you're you operate the

738
01:24:57,208 --> 01:24:57,875
boat you're like

739
01:24:57,875 --> 01:24:59,083
basically the boat captain.

740
01:24:59,958 --> 01:25:03,291
Yes, so I mean so you so Chris is taking

741
01:25:03,291 --> 01:25:04,916
the photograph so someone has to be

742
01:25:04,916 --> 01:25:06,125
dropped. So that's me.

743
01:25:07,125 --> 01:25:09,291
And how did it do is that just learn by

744
01:25:09,291 --> 01:25:11,250
trial pretty much which mostly both the

745
01:25:11,250 --> 01:25:13,250
driving is just yeah.

746
01:25:13,250 --> 01:25:15,083
Yeah. And a lot of instruction and

747
01:25:15,083 --> 01:25:16,791
shouting from Chris sometimes to make

748
01:25:16,791 --> 01:25:17,458
sure it's absolutely

749
01:25:17,458 --> 01:25:18,833
right. But I don't mind that.

750
01:25:19,333 --> 01:25:21,208
No, but there was just a product of being

751
01:25:21,208 --> 01:25:22,875
out there and there was a need for it. So

752
01:25:22,875 --> 01:25:24,916
I was I was happy to step on and learn

753
01:25:24,916 --> 01:25:26,125
and do what what we needed to do.

754
01:25:26,125 --> 01:25:28,833
Well, you've really got a long way from

755
01:25:28,833 --> 01:25:30,791
like playing tennis and now you're

756
01:25:30,791 --> 01:25:32,833
operating boats and out filming great

757
01:25:32,833 --> 01:25:35,041
white sharks. That's a I think that's

758
01:25:35,041 --> 01:25:35,666
going to be definitely one

759
01:25:35,666 --> 01:25:37,958
of the most career changes.

760
01:25:39,208 --> 01:25:40,583
I think Andrew have had on anybody have

761
01:25:40,583 --> 01:25:43,375
any of our guests on here because most

762
01:25:43,375 --> 01:25:44,583
you know, usually most people like when

763
01:25:44,583 --> 01:25:46,166
their kids or some get some kind of an

764
01:25:46,166 --> 01:25:47,750
interest or some it was the marine

765
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:49,583
environment. Maybe not sharks but some of

766
01:25:49,583 --> 01:25:51,750
the mariner or the outdoors and stuff and

767
01:25:51,750 --> 01:25:53,583
like you're like playing tennis your

768
01:25:53,583 --> 01:25:55,083
whole life and now you're operating a

769
01:25:55,083 --> 01:25:56,125
boat and looking at it.

770
01:25:56,125 --> 01:25:59,416
These big fish women are when you say

771
01:25:59,416 --> 01:26:01,291
that does sound crazy and it was not

772
01:26:01,291 --> 01:26:04,125
planned at all. Yeah. Yeah. I mean your

773
01:26:04,125 --> 01:26:05,750
part specially you're just thinking like

774
01:26:05,750 --> 01:26:06,833
I'm gonna be playing on the tennis

775
01:26:06,833 --> 01:26:08,750
circuit all this time. Yeah.

776
01:26:09,833 --> 01:26:11,833
So out so you got into doing this whole

777
01:26:11,833 --> 01:26:14,291
thing and you and so it's been it's been

778
01:26:14,291 --> 01:26:16,750
an amazing journey for you on this on

779
01:26:16,750 --> 01:26:18,541
this whole thing. And so you sound you

780
01:26:18,541 --> 01:26:20,458
had to learn a lot of these skills. Is

781
01:26:20,458 --> 01:26:21,166
this where you're sort of

782
01:26:21,166 --> 01:26:22,125
your tennis discipline came in?

783
01:26:22,166 --> 01:26:27,875
Absolutely. Yeah. And and also, you know,

784
01:26:27,875 --> 01:26:30,041
discipline hard work, but suffering is

785
01:26:30,041 --> 01:26:33,333
quite a key word because unfortunately, I

786
01:26:33,333 --> 01:26:36,750
get seasick and even to this day, I still

787
01:26:36,750 --> 01:26:38,750
it still gets me and it's it's certain

788
01:26:38,750 --> 01:26:40,625
conditions now but the first couple years

789
01:26:40,625 --> 01:26:42,833
that I was going out to see with Chris, I

790
01:26:42,833 --> 01:26:43,833
would say 50% of the

791
01:26:43,833 --> 01:26:45,125
time I was I was seasick.

792
01:26:45,125 --> 01:26:49,000
But I knew that the rewards were we're

793
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:50,791
good. So I was happy. I was happy to keep

794
01:26:50,791 --> 01:26:54,083
going. But yeah, I definitely did need to

795
01:26:54,083 --> 01:26:55,791
draw on all the things that I learned

796
01:26:55,791 --> 01:26:57,333
from tennis because it's the same thing,

797
01:26:57,333 --> 01:26:59,541
you know, getting up at five o'clock

798
01:26:59,541 --> 01:27:01,791
every morning for seven days a week and

799
01:27:01,791 --> 01:27:03,125
just being bone tired.

800
01:27:03,125 --> 01:27:05,666
I'm going to see is pretty physically

801
01:27:05,666 --> 01:27:08,208
demanding, you know, so I think if I

802
01:27:08,208 --> 01:27:11,000
didn't have that background of what I

803
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:12,541
went through with tennis, I probably

804
01:27:12,541 --> 01:27:14,291
would not have survived trying to keep up

805
01:27:14,291 --> 01:27:16,500
with Chris, if I'm honest. Right.

806
01:27:16,916 --> 01:27:18,208
You're going to things you're going on

807
01:27:18,208 --> 01:27:19,708
the winter time a lot of times to do the

808
01:27:19,708 --> 01:27:23,000
filming, which is not the best time to be

809
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:26,666
out in Falls Bay at times. No, it's

810
01:27:26,666 --> 01:27:30,000
freezing cold, big northwester winds, but

811
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:31,125
also beautiful days in between.

812
01:27:31,166 --> 01:27:33,541
So it wasn't all hard. There were some

813
01:27:33,541 --> 01:27:36,125
incredible days as well. Yeah. Yeah.

814
01:27:36,125 --> 01:27:37,625
Well, I was contrast after the summer

815
01:27:37,625 --> 01:27:39,250
days out there, which really, really nice

816
01:27:39,250 --> 01:27:41,041
on the on the way out there. Yeah. No

817
01:27:41,041 --> 01:27:43,208
sharks aren't around the same to the same

818
01:27:43,208 --> 01:27:46,375
degree. Yeah. But I think I think people

819
01:27:46,375 --> 01:27:48,166
don't some people may may not realize

820
01:27:48,166 --> 01:27:50,791
like when you if you suffer I've I've had

821
01:27:50,791 --> 01:27:53,250
seasickness, you know, I'd at sea in some

822
01:27:53,250 --> 01:27:56,041
pretty heavy, heavy waves. It seems like

823
01:27:56,041 --> 01:27:57,458
it happens. I'm not sure Dave, if you've

824
01:27:57,458 --> 01:27:58,958
ever had it, but it seems like it happens

825
01:27:58,958 --> 01:28:00,000
to everyone at some point

826
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:00,125
in time for the other day.

827
01:28:00,125 --> 01:28:03,500
I always had respect a lot of respect for

828
01:28:03,500 --> 01:28:05,875
those that happened every single time. I

829
01:28:05,875 --> 01:28:07,333
knew people who went out every time they

830
01:28:07,333 --> 01:28:09,541
went out, they would get sick and then

831
01:28:09,541 --> 01:28:11,708
they were okay. Once they got sick, they

832
01:28:11,708 --> 01:28:13,666
were fine and they'd be able to get over.

833
01:28:13,666 --> 01:28:15,208
Some people never got over. My wife will

834
01:28:15,208 --> 01:28:16,625
go scuba diving with me

835
01:28:16,625 --> 01:28:18,125
even though she gets seasick.

836
01:28:18,125 --> 01:28:19,541
And I just my goal is just to get her in

837
01:28:19,541 --> 01:28:21,375
the water is and get her down as fast as

838
01:28:21,375 --> 01:28:23,916
possible so that as possible, she doesn't

839
01:28:23,916 --> 01:28:25,750
get sick. But like the the the fortitude

840
01:28:25,750 --> 01:28:28,083
takes like to do that for a living and to

841
01:28:28,083 --> 01:28:29,458
understand that yeah, I'm probably going

842
01:28:29,458 --> 01:28:32,333
to get sick or 50% of the time be sick or

843
01:28:32,333 --> 01:28:34,166
there's a chance, a higher chance that

844
01:28:34,166 --> 01:28:35,791
normal that I'm going to not feel well

845
01:28:35,791 --> 01:28:37,625
when I'm out there to do that as part of

846
01:28:37,625 --> 01:28:39,791
your job. It does as you mentioned some

847
01:28:39,791 --> 01:28:42,958
suffering and to get past that suffering.

848
01:28:42,958 --> 01:28:44,625
I think that's a some people who are

849
01:28:44,625 --> 01:28:45,833
listening to this may or may not have

850
01:28:45,833 --> 01:28:46,916
been on it on boats in

851
01:28:46,916 --> 01:28:48,125
time, but it's it's it's.

852
01:28:48,125 --> 01:28:49,625
Very difficult. You got the sun that's

853
01:28:49,625 --> 01:28:51,625
beating down on you a lot of times the

854
01:28:51,625 --> 01:28:53,750
wind can tire you out being in the being

855
01:28:53,750 --> 01:28:56,708
out at sea is extremely tiring. If you're

856
01:28:56,708 --> 01:28:58,666
in waves, your your muscles are

857
01:28:58,666 --> 01:29:00,833
constantly contracting and you know,

858
01:29:00,833 --> 01:29:02,458
trying to try and just balance on

859
01:29:02,458 --> 01:29:04,333
whatever boat at the smaller the boat,

860
01:29:04,583 --> 01:29:06,750
the harder it is to kind of do that. So

861
01:29:06,750 --> 01:29:08,250
you're physically and emotionally tired

862
01:29:08,250 --> 01:29:10,000
at the end of at the end of these types

863
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:11,000
of things. I just want to make sure

864
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:11,958
people understand like

865
01:29:11,958 --> 01:29:13,041
how difficult it can be.

866
01:29:13,125 --> 01:29:15,166
Especially if you're going out like you

867
01:29:15,166 --> 01:29:16,791
would go out what four or five times a

868
01:29:16,791 --> 01:29:18,125
week is that what you guys were doing?

869
01:29:19,083 --> 01:29:21,125
We would go out with the permitting. So

870
01:29:21,125 --> 01:29:23,291
if we had good weather and we had seven

871
01:29:23,291 --> 01:29:25,041
good days in a row, it would be seven

872
01:29:25,041 --> 01:29:27,708
days in a row. Yeah. So you know when

873
01:29:27,708 --> 01:29:29,416
when our business first started, the two

874
01:29:29,416 --> 01:29:31,125
of us did everything. You know, we ran

875
01:29:31,125 --> 01:29:32,916
the boat. We did the bookings. We did the

876
01:29:32,916 --> 01:29:34,583
accounting. We made the sandwiches. We

877
01:29:34,583 --> 01:29:37,875
caught the bait. So yeah, I mean, it was

878
01:29:37,875 --> 01:29:40,458
it was I don't want to use the relate the

879
01:29:40,458 --> 01:29:41,458
word relentless because

880
01:29:41,458 --> 01:29:42,125
that's negative, but it was.

881
01:29:42,125 --> 01:29:45,291
I mean, it was it was a commitment. But

882
01:29:45,291 --> 01:29:48,875
it was a commitment. But yeah, I mean, as

883
01:29:48,875 --> 01:29:51,125
I said before, you know, the rewards of

884
01:29:51,125 --> 01:29:53,666
the things that we experienced out there,

885
01:29:53,666 --> 01:29:55,708
the things that we saw the sharks that we

886
01:29:55,708 --> 01:29:58,041
got to know like I wasn't willing to give

887
01:29:58,041 --> 01:29:59,500
up on that just because I

888
01:29:59,500 --> 01:30:00,125
was seasick or it was hard.

889
01:30:00,166 --> 01:30:03,375
Like I know that you're not going to get

890
01:30:03,375 --> 01:30:05,041
to experience the kind of things that we

891
01:30:05,041 --> 01:30:08,125
did unless you go through something and I

892
01:30:08,125 --> 01:30:10,958
wanted to do it. So yeah. Well, I think

893
01:30:10,958 --> 01:30:14,000
is that the challenges of going out there

894
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:16,083
and going every day going early taking

895
01:30:16,083 --> 01:30:17,458
care of everything. And then of course,

896
01:30:17,458 --> 01:30:18,916
we come in with people don't think about

897
01:30:18,916 --> 01:30:20,166
when you come in. There's nobody taking

898
01:30:20,166 --> 01:30:21,791
care of your boat, cleaning up the boat,

899
01:30:21,791 --> 01:30:24,000
cleaning up the gear, which you have to

900
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:24,125
do. That's a couple hours easily.

901
01:30:24,125 --> 01:30:28,791
Yeah, fixing the boat and then the next

902
01:30:28,791 --> 01:30:30,041
day you got to go back out and do it

903
01:30:30,041 --> 01:30:32,291
again. Yeah. Yeah. And we would still

904
01:30:32,291 --> 01:30:34,125
come back and then have work in the

905
01:30:34,125 --> 01:30:36,750
office as well at home and do that side

906
01:30:36,750 --> 01:30:38,666
of things. And the house probably wasn't

907
01:30:38,666 --> 01:30:40,458
very clean, but that's okay.

908
01:30:41,416 --> 01:30:45,458
You know, going out and seeing. Go ahead.

909
01:30:45,458 --> 01:30:47,916
Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. So I got to

910
01:30:47,916 --> 01:30:51,083
ask you this because being married and

911
01:30:51,083 --> 01:30:52,125
going out and working 24 seven something like that.

912
01:30:52,125 --> 01:30:53,958
I mean, you're working 24 seven

913
01:30:53,958 --> 01:30:56,791
sometimes. How does that get to be like,

914
01:30:57,125 --> 01:30:58,500
because you ever get like have to have

915
01:30:58,500 --> 01:31:01,416
like some I need some time downtime or

916
01:31:01,416 --> 01:31:02,208
anything when you're just

917
01:31:02,208 --> 01:31:04,208
always together like that?

918
01:31:06,166 --> 01:31:07,625
I know a lot of people ask us that and

919
01:31:07,625 --> 01:31:11,083
honestly, like neither of us really feel

920
01:31:11,083 --> 01:31:13,583
that way. You know, we we are so many

921
01:31:13,583 --> 01:31:15,750
things to each other. But I do make sure

922
01:31:15,750 --> 01:31:17,458
we get things from other people, you

923
01:31:17,458 --> 01:31:19,208
know, like spending time with friends and

924
01:31:19,208 --> 01:31:20,416
different energies from different people.

925
01:31:21,166 --> 01:31:23,500
So two of us just yeah, we just we just

926
01:31:23,500 --> 01:31:27,250
fit so so well. And I mean, we do fight

927
01:31:27,250 --> 01:31:30,250
and healthy debates is what we call it.

928
01:31:30,583 --> 01:31:32,041
And that's that's really good because

929
01:31:32,041 --> 01:31:34,291
like I feel like I can say exactly what I

930
01:31:34,291 --> 01:31:35,166
want to say. And Chris can

931
01:31:35,166 --> 01:31:36,125
say what he wants to say.

932
01:31:36,125 --> 01:31:37,625
We usually get to the right answer at the

933
01:31:37,625 --> 01:31:40,166
end of the day, but I think where the joy

934
01:31:40,166 --> 01:31:42,291
comes in is that when you are especially

935
01:31:42,291 --> 01:31:44,541
with the natural world and wildlife and

936
01:31:44,541 --> 01:31:46,625
you you see incredible things and you

937
01:31:46,625 --> 01:31:48,833
having these amazing experiences when you

938
01:31:48,833 --> 01:31:51,458
sharing it with someone who you know is a

939
01:31:51,458 --> 01:31:54,166
feeling it on the same level you are and

940
01:31:54,166 --> 01:31:55,666
feels the same way and thinks the same

941
01:31:55,666 --> 01:31:58,000
way that experience is heightened to a

942
01:31:58,000 --> 01:31:59,291
level that you're not

943
01:31:59,291 --> 01:32:00,125
going to get on your own.

944
01:32:00,125 --> 01:32:03,166
And so I just think we just we just so

945
01:32:03,166 --> 01:32:05,166
crave those highs together. And that's

946
01:32:05,166 --> 01:32:06,875
kind of what makes us who we are as a

947
01:32:06,875 --> 01:32:09,291
couple. So yeah, a lot of time together.

948
01:32:09,291 --> 01:32:12,708
But it's it's I don't know. It doesn't

949
01:32:12,708 --> 01:32:14,125
feel like it's a problem ever.

950
01:32:14,500 --> 01:32:17,375
Yeah. There are a couple of people like

951
01:32:17,375 --> 01:32:20,541
Michelle Heiple and Colin Sinfendorf have

952
01:32:20,541 --> 01:32:23,375
been married for 30 years now. And

953
01:32:23,375 --> 01:32:25,291
they're worked together closely and

954
01:32:25,291 --> 01:32:26,875
everything like that. And you just I just

955
01:32:26,875 --> 01:32:29,125
kind of wonder, like, how's that workout?

956
01:32:29,166 --> 01:32:30,875
I don't think it works too well with me.

957
01:32:32,541 --> 01:32:36,500
But that's like, hey, everybody's

958
01:32:36,500 --> 01:32:37,333
different. Everybody's different. Yeah,

959
01:32:37,333 --> 01:32:38,791
everyone's different. Yeah, you just need

960
01:32:38,791 --> 01:32:41,291
that time. So you got it. So you've had

961
01:32:41,291 --> 01:32:43,583
this that you've been traveling around. I

962
01:32:43,583 --> 01:32:45,125
know the last few years, especially you

963
01:32:45,125 --> 01:32:47,708
guys have been doing a lot more like

964
01:32:47,708 --> 01:32:51,166
going to terrestrial stuff with elephants

965
01:32:51,166 --> 01:32:52,833
and different types of.

966
01:32:52,833 --> 01:32:53,958
Yeah. Well, just wildlife.

967
01:32:54,166 --> 01:32:57,875
So yeah, I mean, we have always gone to

968
01:32:57,875 --> 01:32:59,125
the bush. So, you know, the white shark

969
01:32:59,125 --> 01:33:00,791
season was always at six to eight month

970
01:33:00,791 --> 01:33:03,541
period. And then as soon as you know,

971
01:33:03,541 --> 01:33:05,583
we'd be finished with that season, we

972
01:33:05,583 --> 01:33:07,250
would be off to the bush. So we've always

973
01:33:07,250 --> 01:33:08,750
had that love as well. And again, that

974
01:33:08,750 --> 01:33:10,375
was something that cross shared with me.

975
01:33:10,375 --> 01:33:13,125
And I embraced 100% as well.

976
01:33:13,125 --> 01:33:16,208
And I think, you know, the whole journey

977
01:33:16,208 --> 01:33:19,583
with losing the white sharks, I mean, the

978
01:33:19,583 --> 01:33:22,166
negatives are very, very high. But if we

979
01:33:22,166 --> 01:33:24,500
have to put a positive spin on it, it's

980
01:33:24,500 --> 01:33:27,166
opened the door to new challenges and

981
01:33:27,166 --> 01:33:28,125
different things to do.

982
01:33:28,125 --> 01:33:31,541
And, you know, not not running a business

983
01:33:31,541 --> 01:33:33,500
full time like that. And, you know, you

984
01:33:33,500 --> 01:33:35,041
know, being at sea for that, you know,

985
01:33:35,041 --> 01:33:37,166
that many months of the year, we still

986
01:33:37,166 --> 01:33:39,250
love wildlife. So we just go and we spend

987
01:33:39,250 --> 01:33:41,000
more and more time traveling to other

988
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:43,208
places. And, you know, with Christmas

989
01:33:43,208 --> 01:33:44,708
photography, there's certain places he

990
01:33:44,708 --> 01:33:46,125
loves to go to get certain images.

991
01:33:46,166 --> 01:33:48,916
So, you know, that's that's become a new

992
01:33:48,916 --> 01:33:50,833
direction in our life. And, you know,

993
01:33:50,833 --> 01:33:52,625
focusing on his photography has been

994
01:33:52,625 --> 01:33:54,500
fantastic as well. Like I said, it's a

995
01:33:54,500 --> 01:33:56,166
new challenge and we love new challenges.

996
01:33:56,166 --> 01:33:57,458
And I think that's what just really keeps

997
01:33:57,458 --> 01:33:58,583
pushing us all the time.

998
01:33:58,791 --> 01:34:01,125
Yeah, that's great. I mean, it's good.

999
01:34:01,125 --> 01:34:02,708
It's good. I know it's like you get that.

1000
01:34:02,708 --> 01:34:04,041
I think you just hit a key thing that the

1001
01:34:04,041 --> 01:34:05,000
new challenges you get

1002
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:06,125
along in your career.

1003
01:34:06,125 --> 01:34:08,083
Because you get doing the same thing over

1004
01:34:08,083 --> 01:34:10,125
and over. It kind of gets more to me

1005
01:34:10,125 --> 01:34:12,291
because boring. So I find something new.

1006
01:34:12,583 --> 01:34:14,625
Yeah. It's really, it's really good. So

1007
01:34:14,625 --> 01:34:17,458
you guys go ahead. So I was gonna say,

1008
01:34:17,458 --> 01:34:19,666
and speaking of something new, when did

1009
01:34:19,666 --> 01:34:21,791
the writing begin? Have you all had you

1010
01:34:21,791 --> 01:34:23,708
always been writing as you went along?

1011
01:34:23,708 --> 01:34:25,833
Because you have two children's book, or

1012
01:34:25,833 --> 01:34:26,708
we've mentioned them before.

1013
01:34:27,125 --> 01:34:29,166
And then we have salty sea dogs and then

1014
01:34:29,166 --> 01:34:31,125
we have Lucy in the gray white. Where did

1015
01:34:31,125 --> 01:34:34,791
that inspiration come from? And at what

1016
01:34:34,791 --> 01:34:36,583
point did you start to think about?

1017
01:34:37,125 --> 01:34:39,708
I've actually always loved to write for

1018
01:34:39,708 --> 01:34:42,958
some other reasons. I love reading and I

1019
01:34:42,958 --> 01:34:45,208
love writing. And from the early days

1020
01:34:45,208 --> 01:34:48,375
working with the sharks, I started a

1021
01:34:48,375 --> 01:34:51,375
little blog called shark bites. So it was

1022
01:34:51,375 --> 01:34:53,750
even before the time, you know, that

1023
01:34:53,750 --> 01:34:54,791
blogs and social

1024
01:34:54,791 --> 01:34:56,125
media were really a thing.

1025
01:34:56,166 --> 01:34:58,875
And, you know, I would obviously go and

1026
01:34:58,875 --> 01:35:00,625
when I see my mom and dad, I'll say, Oh,

1027
01:35:00,625 --> 01:35:02,375
you know, this is what we saw. And we're

1028
01:35:02,375 --> 01:35:03,791
getting to know this shark and blah,

1029
01:35:03,791 --> 01:35:05,666
blah, blah. And my dad said to me, you

1030
01:35:05,666 --> 01:35:08,000
know, why don't you write about it? So I

1031
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:10,500
was like, okay, maybe I can do that. So I

1032
01:35:10,500 --> 01:35:12,333
started this blog called shark bites. And

1033
01:35:12,333 --> 01:35:14,583
in the field, in the beginning part, like

1034
01:35:14,583 --> 01:35:16,166
my subscribers, like I could

1035
01:35:16,166 --> 01:35:17,916
put them all in the email field.

1036
01:35:18,166 --> 01:35:21,958
That's how few they were. But I ended up

1037
01:35:21,958 --> 01:35:24,541
writing shark bites for let's call it 18

1038
01:35:24,541 --> 01:35:28,083
years every month for 18 years. And yeah,

1039
01:35:28,416 --> 01:35:31,041
and and I think as a writer, when you

1040
01:35:31,041 --> 01:35:33,291
when you are able to write for me, I have

1041
01:35:33,291 --> 01:35:35,750
to write what I know. So it was very easy

1042
01:35:35,750 --> 01:35:37,791
for me to write about seal Island and the

1043
01:35:37,791 --> 01:35:39,083
sharks who were seeing and the behavior

1044
01:35:39,083 --> 01:35:40,500
we're seeing because I was seeing that

1045
01:35:40,500 --> 01:35:42,125
and I and I felt this.

1046
01:35:42,125 --> 01:35:45,000
It was really important to be able to

1047
01:35:45,000 --> 01:35:46,833
stay in touch with people that had

1048
01:35:46,833 --> 01:35:48,583
already been out with us to see sharks,

1049
01:35:49,166 --> 01:35:51,458
because I understood that our

1050
01:35:51,458 --> 01:35:53,250
opportunities are opportunities that not

1051
01:35:53,250 --> 01:35:55,250
everybody has. And I felt it was really

1052
01:35:55,250 --> 01:35:56,708
important to be able to share that with

1053
01:35:56,708 --> 01:35:58,916
people, you know, and have that that

1054
01:35:58,916 --> 01:36:01,291
connection to seal Island to the sharks

1055
01:36:01,291 --> 01:36:04,125
to nature, you know, whatever it is.

1056
01:36:04,166 --> 01:36:07,166
So, so I loved writing with that sole

1057
01:36:07,166 --> 01:36:09,375
purpose of helping to connect people. And

1058
01:36:09,375 --> 01:36:12,291
yeah, I love storytelling in terms of

1059
01:36:12,291 --> 01:36:14,666
sharing the amazing opportunities that

1060
01:36:14,666 --> 01:36:16,333
that I've had. So that's

1061
01:36:16,333 --> 01:36:17,541
where I started from, really.

1062
01:36:18,958 --> 01:36:22,291
Wow. That's really. And so you take your

1063
01:36:22,291 --> 01:36:23,708
dogs out to see with you.

1064
01:36:23,708 --> 01:36:24,791
How does that work on the boat?

1065
01:36:26,125 --> 01:36:27,833
Yes, I remember I said you write what you

1066
01:36:27,833 --> 01:36:31,625
know. And so Sandy, she's actually the

1067
01:36:31,625 --> 01:36:34,166
mom of brownie and Lucy and she was a

1068
01:36:34,166 --> 01:36:36,208
street dog that I rescued. And we didn't

1069
01:36:36,208 --> 01:36:37,583
realize it. But I we

1070
01:36:37,583 --> 01:36:39,208
rehomed her and she was pregnant.

1071
01:36:40,125 --> 01:36:42,916
So she popped, she popped out four

1072
01:36:42,916 --> 01:36:45,500
puppies and two went across his mom and

1073
01:36:45,500 --> 01:36:48,333
we kept the other two. And we would go

1074
01:36:48,333 --> 01:36:50,458
out to see and just like in the book,

1075
01:36:50,458 --> 01:36:52,750
it's a like a true story. We would come

1076
01:36:52,750 --> 01:36:54,291
home to a house that was totally

1077
01:36:54,291 --> 01:36:56,791
destroyed. So the cart was pulled apart

1078
01:36:56,791 --> 01:36:59,250
and the mattress on our bed, they ate

1079
01:36:59,250 --> 01:37:01,375
through it three times. And it was a

1080
01:37:01,375 --> 01:37:02,541
complete it was chaos.

1081
01:37:03,375 --> 01:37:05,666
So the solution was, well, let's take the

1082
01:37:05,666 --> 01:37:07,458
dogs to see and at least if they're with

1083
01:37:07,458 --> 01:37:10,625
us, they can't destroy the house. And it

1084
01:37:10,625 --> 01:37:12,333
was actually just incredible from from

1085
01:37:12,333 --> 01:37:14,458
the very beginning with artists even

1086
01:37:14,458 --> 01:37:17,041
prompting them. They were so plugged into

1087
01:37:17,041 --> 01:37:17,833
anything that we would

1088
01:37:17,833 --> 01:37:19,125
see like super curious.

1089
01:37:19,166 --> 01:37:25,500
And just I wouldn't say that they they is

1090
01:37:25,500 --> 01:37:26,958
interaction with the animals, but they

1091
01:37:26,958 --> 01:37:28,791
are super aware of other living creatures

1092
01:37:28,791 --> 01:37:31,625
in the ocean. And you know, when I when I

1093
01:37:31,625 --> 01:37:34,750
saw the interactions between the dogs and

1094
01:37:34,750 --> 01:37:37,500
whatever wildlife we're seeing, I just

1095
01:37:37,500 --> 01:37:39,083
thought that's just a wonderful way to

1096
01:37:39,083 --> 01:37:41,083
help introduce kids to the ocean.

1097
01:37:41,125 --> 01:37:43,583
And something I'm really passionate about

1098
01:37:43,583 --> 01:37:46,208
is ecosystems. You know, a lot of people

1099
01:37:46,208 --> 01:37:48,041
don't even know what ecosystems are, but

1100
01:37:48,041 --> 01:37:50,833
they're so fascinating because I love the

1101
01:37:50,833 --> 01:37:53,416
fact that every single animal needs to be

1102
01:37:53,416 --> 01:37:54,708
present in that

1103
01:37:54,708 --> 01:37:56,125
ecosystem to make it work.

1104
01:37:56,125 --> 01:37:59,166
You take one one out of out of the

1105
01:37:59,166 --> 01:38:01,291
equation and you start having problems

1106
01:38:01,291 --> 01:38:03,083
that every single animal is important.

1107
01:38:03,625 --> 01:38:05,541
And I really wanted to try get that

1108
01:38:05,541 --> 01:38:08,000
across to people that, hey, that's our

1109
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:11,083
team. It's hugely important. Or, you

1110
01:38:11,083 --> 01:38:12,833
know, dolphins do certain things that

1111
01:38:12,833 --> 01:38:13,125
make everything work.

1112
01:38:13,166 --> 01:38:16,208
And and and it's not just the importance

1113
01:38:16,208 --> 01:38:17,583
of those animals. The other thing that

1114
01:38:17,583 --> 01:38:20,666
fascinates me is how each animal is built

1115
01:38:20,666 --> 01:38:22,500
in a certain way to be able to do its

1116
01:38:22,500 --> 01:38:25,625
job. And I and I love the special things

1117
01:38:25,625 --> 01:38:28,750
and the you know that each animal has to

1118
01:38:28,750 --> 01:38:30,125
be able to do the things they do.

1119
01:38:30,125 --> 01:38:32,791
And it's it's quite a big topic, I think,

1120
01:38:32,791 --> 01:38:34,291
trying to talk to kids about ecosystems.

1121
01:38:34,583 --> 01:38:36,291
And I just thought, do it through the

1122
01:38:36,291 --> 01:38:38,208
eyes of the dogs. You know, kids love

1123
01:38:38,208 --> 01:38:41,958
dogs. Keep it really fun. And yeah, so

1124
01:38:41,958 --> 01:38:43,375
the idea was just, you

1125
01:38:43,375 --> 01:38:44,291
know, grew from that.

1126
01:38:44,750 --> 01:38:47,708
OK. Oh, nice. And you still got all three

1127
01:38:47,708 --> 01:38:49,750
dogs, obviously, still there. Still with

1128
01:38:49,750 --> 01:38:53,500
you. Yes, we do. When you're traveling to

1129
01:38:53,500 --> 01:38:55,708
England, trust me, you still take the

1130
01:38:55,708 --> 01:38:57,125
dogs. I sure you take the dogs with you.

1131
01:38:57,166 --> 01:39:00,791
Unfortunately, not when we when we go to

1132
01:39:00,791 --> 01:39:02,750
the national parks and the dogs aren't

1133
01:39:02,750 --> 01:39:05,333
they aren't allowed in. So so they have

1134
01:39:05,333 --> 01:39:06,791
to stay behind on those ones.

1135
01:39:06,791 --> 01:39:08,958
Unfortunately, I wish we could because I

1136
01:39:08,958 --> 01:39:10,291
think they would have the same reactions

1137
01:39:10,291 --> 01:39:11,750
to everything else that we see.

1138
01:39:11,750 --> 01:39:12,041
Of course.

1139
01:39:14,125 --> 01:39:16,500
You guys travel quite a bit. So I guess

1140
01:39:16,500 --> 01:39:18,375
you have some kind of a situation like

1141
01:39:18,375 --> 01:39:19,666
you leave them with your parents or

1142
01:39:19,666 --> 01:39:22,833
something. Just yeah. So we so we have we

1143
01:39:22,833 --> 01:39:25,125
we actually had an amazing dog sitter

1144
01:39:25,125 --> 01:39:26,916
mark who looked after them

1145
01:39:26,916 --> 01:39:28,083
for almost the whole life.

1146
01:39:28,166 --> 01:39:30,916
He sadly passed away actually a couple of

1147
01:39:30,916 --> 01:39:33,500
years ago. So we're on a bit of a journey

1148
01:39:33,500 --> 01:39:37,208
to find the new house sitters, but we

1149
01:39:37,208 --> 01:39:38,708
make sure the dogs are well looked after

1150
01:39:38,708 --> 01:39:40,375
when we're gone. So it's quite hard to

1151
01:39:40,375 --> 01:39:42,708
leave that because I can only say that

1152
01:39:42,708 --> 01:39:43,125
the dogs, the dogs have been absolute magic in our life.

1153
01:39:43,166 --> 01:39:47,125
You know, they're so part of everything

1154
01:39:47,125 --> 01:39:49,250
that we do out at sea and you know at

1155
01:39:49,250 --> 01:39:51,458
home and we don't have kids. So I mean, I

1156
01:39:51,458 --> 01:39:53,041
know all our maternal and paternal

1157
01:39:53,041 --> 01:39:55,041
feelings are projected onto the dogs, but

1158
01:39:55,041 --> 01:39:56,666
yeah, they just incredible

1159
01:39:56,666 --> 01:39:58,750
little little little furbils.

1160
01:39:58,750 --> 01:40:00,291
And yeah, we just love doing everything

1161
01:40:00,291 --> 01:40:02,125
with them. So we're very lucky.

1162
01:40:02,166 --> 01:40:05,458
I love that. Yeah, I love it. Now, you

1163
01:40:05,458 --> 01:40:07,791
mentioned and I was just reading on on

1164
01:40:07,791 --> 01:40:09,541
the about page. I don't remember which

1165
01:40:09,541 --> 01:40:11,250
one, but there was one dog that I think

1166
01:40:11,250 --> 01:40:12,750
it was brownie that would get a little

1167
01:40:12,750 --> 01:40:15,166
seasick or was Lucy Andy.

1168
01:40:15,666 --> 01:40:18,166
Sandy would get a little seasick. How

1169
01:40:18,166 --> 01:40:21,458
long did it take her to get over that? Or

1170
01:40:21,458 --> 01:40:23,750
does she say, I'm so jealous. I'm certain

1171
01:40:23,750 --> 01:40:26,208
I'm so jealous. She was like, she had

1172
01:40:26,208 --> 01:40:28,666
like maybe like six months of seasickness

1173
01:40:28,666 --> 01:40:30,625
and she's done. Now she's rock solid.

1174
01:40:31,833 --> 01:40:34,166
That's hilarious. So I wasn't as lucky.

1175
01:40:35,458 --> 01:40:37,750
But she still was excited to go on the

1176
01:40:37,750 --> 01:40:41,291
boat every time. Yeah, I mean, sometimes

1177
01:40:41,291 --> 01:40:42,583
we would give her a break, you know, if

1178
01:40:42,583 --> 01:40:43,708
it was going to be a little bit rough.

1179
01:40:44,625 --> 01:40:46,166
But now, I mean, that they've been going

1180
01:40:46,166 --> 01:40:48,666
to see they 11 and 12 years old now. So

1181
01:40:48,666 --> 01:40:50,041
they're going to see for a very, very

1182
01:40:50,041 --> 01:40:53,250
long time. And we cannot get away with

1183
01:40:53,250 --> 01:40:54,166
trying to get all our

1184
01:40:54,166 --> 01:40:55,125
stuff together to go to sea.

1185
01:40:55,166 --> 01:40:58,708
But they know that the boat is on and

1186
01:40:58,708 --> 01:41:00,750
there is no way that they are staying at

1187
01:41:00,750 --> 01:41:04,791
home. Yeah, like they really do love it.

1188
01:41:05,125 --> 01:41:09,000
You guys still go to sea, though, a part

1189
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:11,250
of the time or what sort of percent now.

1190
01:41:11,250 --> 01:41:13,625
Now you'd still go to sea. You still

1191
01:41:13,625 --> 01:41:15,416
going out. Yeah. So we've come full

1192
01:41:15,416 --> 01:41:18,875
circle. You know, we obviously when we

1193
01:41:18,875 --> 01:41:20,125
were working with the great white sharks

1194
01:41:20,125 --> 01:41:21,458
and ecotrosum, we had

1195
01:41:21,458 --> 01:41:22,125
the big commercial boat.

1196
01:41:22,166 --> 01:41:25,458
But the first boat that we started on,

1197
01:41:25,458 --> 01:41:28,208
which is white pointers, a small 28 foot

1198
01:41:28,208 --> 01:41:31,958
catamaran. We always kept that boat. And

1199
01:41:31,958 --> 01:41:33,500
now that we don't we're not

1200
01:41:33,500 --> 01:41:34,583
involved in the ecotourism.

1201
01:41:34,583 --> 01:41:37,041
We're back on a small boat and it's the

1202
01:41:37,041 --> 01:41:39,416
two of us, three dogs. And we also love

1203
01:41:39,416 --> 01:41:41,166
taking friends or like minded people out

1204
01:41:41,166 --> 01:41:43,208
there as well. Just going out there just

1205
01:41:43,208 --> 01:41:44,125
to experience wildlife.

1206
01:41:45,125 --> 01:41:48,125
But, you know, as we've shifted away from

1207
01:41:48,125 --> 01:41:50,291
working with the white sharks, we have we

1208
01:41:50,291 --> 01:41:52,458
are still doing amazing things out on the

1209
01:41:52,458 --> 01:41:53,625
ocean. And obviously the

1210
01:41:53,625 --> 01:41:55,291
most exciting is the humpback.

1211
01:41:56,125 --> 01:41:59,041
Humpback whale super groups. So I would

1212
01:41:59,041 --> 01:42:01,291
say probably for the last six to eight

1213
01:42:01,291 --> 01:42:03,291
years, we've really been focusing on that

1214
01:42:03,291 --> 01:42:06,125
very heavily because we are very lucky.

1215
01:42:06,125 --> 01:42:07,916
We have a permit from the department

1216
01:42:07,916 --> 01:42:11,458
where we collect tail fin IDs for them as

1217
01:42:11,458 --> 01:42:13,125
well, which allows us to be out there.

1218
01:42:13,583 --> 01:42:14,041
And that's really

1219
01:42:14,041 --> 01:42:15,750
become a new focus for us.

1220
01:42:16,083 --> 01:42:18,166
So just seeing the resurgence of the

1221
01:42:18,166 --> 01:42:20,041
humpback whales and documenting that

1222
01:42:20,041 --> 01:42:22,250
behavior and, you know, just, you know,

1223
01:42:22,250 --> 01:42:26,916
getting all those population IDs out is

1224
01:42:26,916 --> 01:42:28,250
it's been it's been a

1225
01:42:28,250 --> 01:42:29,125
fantastic shift for us.

1226
01:42:29,166 --> 01:42:32,125
And then we do quite a lot of work with

1227
01:42:32,125 --> 01:42:34,500
dolphins as well. So we actually just

1228
01:42:34,500 --> 01:42:36,500
started to find huge super

1229
01:42:36,500 --> 01:42:38,500
groups of dusky dolphins.

1230
01:42:39,875 --> 01:42:41,958
So, you know, we go we look for big

1231
01:42:41,958 --> 01:42:43,375
schools of common dolphins, dusky

1232
01:42:43,375 --> 01:42:45,333
dolphins. We go offshore, pilot whales,

1233
01:42:45,625 --> 01:42:47,791
sperm whales. So we're very lucky that we

1234
01:42:47,791 --> 01:42:49,500
live in an area where, you know, the

1235
01:42:49,500 --> 01:42:51,125
ocean is so rich in wildlife.

1236
01:42:51,125 --> 01:42:54,125
So, yeah, there's plenty of us to see.

1237
01:42:54,333 --> 01:42:56,208
And then we still do have interactions

1238
01:42:56,208 --> 01:42:58,291
with sharks. So, you know, off Cape

1239
01:42:58,291 --> 01:42:59,208
Point, we have maker

1240
01:42:59,208 --> 01:43:00,500
sharks, we have blue sharks.

1241
01:43:01,375 --> 01:43:03,000
So I would say whenever the weather's

1242
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:04,500
good and we have a good run and, you

1243
01:43:04,500 --> 01:43:05,958
know, we are on a small boat and we're

1244
01:43:05,958 --> 01:43:07,833
out there doing what we love. So that

1245
01:43:07,833 --> 01:43:09,958
part has not has not stopped at all.

1246
01:43:10,250 --> 01:43:12,125
Do you do any scuba diving at all?

1247
01:43:12,125 --> 01:43:15,958
Yes, that was also something I had to

1248
01:43:15,958 --> 01:43:19,416
learn. But yeah, I actually I'm very once

1249
01:43:19,416 --> 01:43:21,333
I'm I'm down in the water. I'm very

1250
01:43:21,333 --> 01:43:22,250
comfortable. So I

1251
01:43:22,250 --> 01:43:23,333
love being in the water.

1252
01:43:23,333 --> 01:43:27,166
OK. Oh, nice. Nice. No, no, no bonus for

1253
01:43:27,166 --> 01:43:29,958
you. So, yeah, you've had this amazing

1254
01:43:29,958 --> 01:43:33,500
trip with all this stuff and with all

1255
01:43:33,500 --> 01:43:34,125
these with all these different experiences.

1256
01:43:34,166 --> 01:43:37,291
Have you had any favorite outside Cape

1257
01:43:37,291 --> 01:43:39,125
Town and Falls Bay? Is there any place

1258
01:43:39,125 --> 01:43:40,708
you've traveled to that you really

1259
01:43:40,708 --> 01:43:42,000
thought, wow, this is really cool.

1260
01:43:43,625 --> 01:43:46,083
Actually, I'm going to say the central

1261
01:43:46,083 --> 01:43:50,166
Kalahari, which is in Botswana and it's

1262
01:43:50,166 --> 01:43:53,125
land, but it's probably one of the most

1263
01:43:53,125 --> 01:43:54,125
remotest places that you can go to.

1264
01:43:54,166 --> 01:43:57,291
So so when we go there, we're in our four

1265
01:43:57,291 --> 01:43:59,250
by four. We've got all our own water.

1266
01:43:59,250 --> 01:44:01,750
We've got all our own food and the camp,

1267
01:44:01,750 --> 01:44:04,166
the campsite that you have. It's a GPS

1268
01:44:04,166 --> 01:44:06,250
mark. So it's just a patch of dirt which

1269
01:44:06,250 --> 01:44:07,416
you can go put your tent up

1270
01:44:07,416 --> 01:44:08,125
and basically a self sufficient.

1271
01:44:08,125 --> 01:44:12,083
But I just love being out in the

1272
01:44:12,083 --> 01:44:13,958
wilderness and being far away from

1273
01:44:13,958 --> 01:44:16,458
people. And it's just Chris and I and

1274
01:44:16,458 --> 01:44:19,458
just, you know, hearing lions roar at

1275
01:44:19,458 --> 01:44:21,000
night and getting up early in the morning

1276
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:22,708
and going looking to see what we can find

1277
01:44:22,708 --> 01:44:23,958
and just being really simple.

1278
01:44:24,625 --> 01:44:28,166
And I think it just takes us back to I

1279
01:44:28,166 --> 01:44:31,083
can't I don't think you can overestimate

1280
01:44:31,083 --> 01:44:34,291
how important it is to be simple and how

1281
01:44:34,291 --> 01:44:35,125
that makes you feel.

1282
01:44:35,125 --> 01:44:38,541
So, yeah, I have to say that that's my

1283
01:44:38,541 --> 01:44:40,166
absolute favorite place. But it's a tough

1284
01:44:40,166 --> 01:44:41,000
call because there's so

1285
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:42,916
many, you know, yeah, yeah.

1286
01:44:45,125 --> 01:44:47,291
Chris had been buying up some land in

1287
01:44:47,291 --> 01:44:52,291
both Namibia and South Africa. Yeah. So I

1288
01:44:52,291 --> 01:44:56,125
think, again, it stems back to our

1289
01:44:56,125 --> 01:44:57,166
lessons working with the

1290
01:44:57,166 --> 01:44:59,125
great whites and using them.

1291
01:44:59,166 --> 01:45:03,125
And, you know, we fought so hard to try

1292
01:45:03,125 --> 01:45:05,416
and effect change within management and

1293
01:45:05,416 --> 01:45:06,833
fisheries policies and

1294
01:45:06,833 --> 01:45:08,416
the top shark boards nets.

1295
01:45:08,875 --> 01:45:11,208
And we can't physically make those

1296
01:45:11,208 --> 01:45:13,125
changes. We have to rely on government to

1297
01:45:13,125 --> 01:45:16,375
make those changes. And I think that

1298
01:45:16,375 --> 01:45:17,791
that's one of the reasons why we're

1299
01:45:17,791 --> 01:45:19,791
losing them because we we're seeing

1300
01:45:19,791 --> 01:45:21,125
problems that we can't fix.

1301
01:45:21,166 --> 01:45:23,750
And we desperately going forward our

1302
01:45:23,750 --> 01:45:25,500
legacy effort. It's very, very important

1303
01:45:25,500 --> 01:45:27,583
to us that we are able to give back to

1304
01:45:27,583 --> 01:45:29,875
wildlife or nature or the natural world

1305
01:45:29,875 --> 01:45:31,416
in some way, because, you know, it's

1306
01:45:31,416 --> 01:45:33,541
given they've given us our whole life.

1307
01:45:34,166 --> 01:45:35,791
And I think we understand that unless you

1308
01:45:35,791 --> 01:45:38,291
actually own a piece of land where you

1309
01:45:38,291 --> 01:45:40,583
have full control over how

1310
01:45:40,583 --> 01:45:41,125
can you make a difference?

1311
01:45:41,166 --> 01:45:43,250
I think that's the best way we can make a

1312
01:45:43,250 --> 01:45:45,250
difference because we can then do the

1313
01:45:45,250 --> 01:45:48,916
best ecological practices we can in terms

1314
01:45:48,916 --> 01:45:51,083
of security, we can do our own security.

1315
01:45:51,666 --> 01:45:54,250
And I just think we felt that we really

1316
01:45:54,250 --> 01:45:58,375
wanted to give space to wildlife where it

1317
01:45:58,375 --> 01:46:01,416
was sanctuary. Preserving habitat is so

1318
01:46:01,416 --> 01:46:03,291
important. You know, you know, you can

1319
01:46:03,291 --> 01:46:04,083
start losing animals.

1320
01:46:04,125 --> 01:46:06,458
You can maybe bring them back. But once

1321
01:46:06,458 --> 01:46:09,166
habitat is gone, I think it's very

1322
01:46:09,166 --> 01:46:11,041
difficult to re-engineer that again. So

1323
01:46:11,041 --> 01:46:12,291
the habitat preservation

1324
01:46:12,291 --> 01:46:14,291
part was really important to us.

1325
01:46:14,666 --> 01:46:19,083
And also wildlife corridors. So our

1326
01:46:19,083 --> 01:46:21,416
little piece, I mean, it's for a sizable

1327
01:46:21,416 --> 01:46:23,916
chunk of land, which we just actually

1328
01:46:23,916 --> 01:46:25,916
today we paid the transfer and stamp

1329
01:46:25,916 --> 01:46:28,125
duties on the property in Namibia.

1330
01:46:28,166 --> 01:46:29,625
So we're very excited. So we're going to

1331
01:46:29,625 --> 01:46:32,833
have a nice drink when we're done. But

1332
01:46:32,833 --> 01:46:36,333
it's 10,700 hectares, which is it's a

1333
01:46:36,333 --> 01:46:37,291
large piece of land.

1334
01:46:37,291 --> 01:46:38,375
But still, if you want to make a big

1335
01:46:38,375 --> 01:46:40,375
difference, it's still it's, you know,

1336
01:46:40,583 --> 01:46:42,791
it's it's it's not it's not ideal. But

1337
01:46:42,791 --> 01:46:44,250
we've bought in an area where we're

1338
01:46:44,250 --> 01:46:45,416
adding to to an

1339
01:46:45,416 --> 01:46:46,708
existing wildlife corridors.

1340
01:46:47,416 --> 01:46:48,833
So we really believe we're looking for

1341
01:46:48,833 --> 01:46:50,750
areas where we can add our little pieces

1342
01:46:50,750 --> 01:46:53,458
that contribute to the greater area. And

1343
01:46:53,458 --> 01:46:56,000
as I said, you know, like we really want

1344
01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:57,083
to be able to make a difference.

1345
01:46:57,083 --> 01:46:59,541
And we feel that when we have control of

1346
01:46:59,541 --> 01:47:01,000
something, that's where we can actually

1347
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:03,416
do something. So when you buy this land,

1348
01:47:03,416 --> 01:47:04,916
you're not making any changes to it.

1349
01:47:04,916 --> 01:47:06,666
You're keeping it natural. It stays the

1350
01:47:06,666 --> 01:47:07,750
same as that corridor.

1351
01:47:09,125 --> 01:47:12,291
This this particular piece of land that

1352
01:47:12,291 --> 01:47:13,708
we just bought in southern Namibia, it's

1353
01:47:13,708 --> 01:47:16,333
been farmed for 100 years. So we're going

1354
01:47:16,333 --> 01:47:17,791
to have to do quite a lot of

1355
01:47:17,791 --> 01:47:19,791
rehabilitation on the land to get the

1356
01:47:19,791 --> 01:47:20,916
grazing to come back.

1357
01:47:21,708 --> 01:47:24,791
And it's also very arid, arid area. So we

1358
01:47:24,791 --> 01:47:26,875
are going to also have to look at putting

1359
01:47:26,875 --> 01:47:29,541
in climate change mitigation. So there's

1360
01:47:29,541 --> 01:47:30,291
there's going to be a lot of

1361
01:47:30,291 --> 01:47:31,125
work that's going to be done.

1362
01:47:31,125 --> 01:47:35,166
But as you've heard, we are not. Yeah,

1363
01:47:35,583 --> 01:47:38,375
we're not afraid of a little bit of

1364
01:47:38,375 --> 01:47:39,458
backbreaking work. So

1365
01:47:39,458 --> 01:47:41,041
we're up for the challenge.

1366
01:47:42,250 --> 01:47:44,875
But there is going to be a rehabilitation

1367
01:47:44,875 --> 01:47:46,166
that's going to be needed.

1368
01:47:46,958 --> 01:47:49,041
Yeah. What I got to ask, what part of

1369
01:47:49,041 --> 01:47:52,166
Namibia were you in? It's the Fisher of

1370
01:47:52,166 --> 01:47:53,916
the Canyon area. Oh, we're

1371
01:47:53,916 --> 01:47:55,541
on the western side. Yeah.

1372
01:47:56,166 --> 01:47:59,958
I've been to Namibia multiple times going

1373
01:47:59,958 --> 01:48:01,708
back into the when I was a graduate

1374
01:48:01,708 --> 01:48:04,250
student in the 80s. And just a reminder,

1375
01:48:04,250 --> 01:48:06,458
we didn't have GPS. We had a compass.

1376
01:48:07,208 --> 01:48:09,833
We had to find our locations. So when you

1377
01:48:09,833 --> 01:48:11,625
mentioned that, that that kind of hits me

1378
01:48:11,625 --> 01:48:13,625
like, OK, that's a generational change

1379
01:48:13,625 --> 01:48:16,375
because that is fortunately for me

1380
01:48:16,375 --> 01:48:17,125
because I've already used a compass.

1381
01:48:17,166 --> 01:48:21,541
Yeah, exactly. I bring that point up. And

1382
01:48:21,541 --> 01:48:23,375
you can back back me on this. I bring

1383
01:48:23,375 --> 01:48:25,041
that up. The younger people like you have

1384
01:48:25,041 --> 01:48:27,416
no idea what I use a compass. And all we

1385
01:48:27,416 --> 01:48:29,958
had was a compass and a map to go.

1386
01:48:39,166 --> 01:48:43,250
Yeah, it's it's it's stunning. And the

1387
01:48:43,250 --> 01:48:45,333
other real big advantage about Namibia,

1388
01:48:45,333 --> 01:48:48,083
it's got a large amount of free roaming

1389
01:48:48,083 --> 01:48:50,666
wildlife store. So without us having to

1390
01:48:50,666 --> 01:48:52,541
introduce, there's a population of

1391
01:48:52,541 --> 01:48:54,458
leopards, brown hyenas.

1392
01:48:54,458 --> 01:48:56,958
There are cheetahs, springbok, hemsbok.

1393
01:48:57,750 --> 01:49:00,375
So the wildlife is there. And if we can

1394
01:49:00,375 --> 01:49:03,041
improve on the grazing, then the prey

1395
01:49:03,041 --> 01:49:04,625
numbers will increase and then the

1396
01:49:04,625 --> 01:49:06,125
predators start coming in as well.

1397
01:49:06,166 --> 01:49:10,041
Yeah, I think it's hard. I'm sure you've

1398
01:49:10,041 --> 01:49:11,250
had this conversation with people, but

1399
01:49:11,250 --> 01:49:12,500
it's hard for people to believe, like

1400
01:49:12,500 --> 01:49:14,083
when you're in Namibia, because it's very

1401
01:49:14,083 --> 01:49:15,500
desert in a lot of areas

1402
01:49:15,500 --> 01:49:17,208
and you're like in the desert.

1403
01:49:18,041 --> 01:49:19,833
And particularly like at dawn and dusk,

1404
01:49:20,250 --> 01:49:22,291
you'll see these the wildlife, like

1405
01:49:22,291 --> 01:49:25,208
including elephants, brown hyenas,

1406
01:49:25,208 --> 01:49:28,041
jackals just come out of the desert.

1407
01:49:28,041 --> 01:49:29,541
Like, you know, like where the heck was

1408
01:49:29,541 --> 01:49:31,166
this thing? It's it's hard to get people

1409
01:49:31,166 --> 01:49:32,083
to understand that if you

1410
01:49:32,083 --> 01:49:33,125
haven't experienced that.

1411
01:49:33,875 --> 01:49:36,583
Yeah, although the landscape is pretty

1412
01:49:36,583 --> 01:49:38,583
immense as well. These are huge areas

1413
01:49:38,583 --> 01:49:41,291
we're talking about. So yeah, and it's

1414
01:49:41,291 --> 01:49:42,875
always surprising to hear what is

1415
01:49:42,875 --> 01:49:44,708
actually there because sometimes you look

1416
01:49:44,708 --> 01:49:45,791
at the new like, you

1417
01:49:45,791 --> 01:49:46,875
know, there's nothing there.

1418
01:49:47,291 --> 01:49:48,833
So on the face of it, I think we've just

1419
01:49:48,833 --> 01:49:52,500
bought ourselves a rock farm. But there

1420
01:49:52,500 --> 01:49:57,000
is wildlife in the area. So we are really

1421
01:49:57,000 --> 01:50:00,250
excited about trying to to help stimulate

1422
01:50:00,250 --> 01:50:01,125
pseudo habitat for them.

1423
01:50:01,125 --> 01:50:06,041
Yeah. So that's pretty super. Do you guys

1424
01:50:06,041 --> 01:50:09,500
know you guys travel outside? I've seen

1425
01:50:09,500 --> 01:50:11,291
some of your stuff here. And we'll

1426
01:50:11,291 --> 01:50:12,916
definitely got to post your you and

1427
01:50:12,916 --> 01:50:14,500
Chris's like websites and

1428
01:50:14,500 --> 01:50:15,416
stuff because you get amazing.

1429
01:50:15,875 --> 01:50:18,291
So the amazing photography is that just

1430
01:50:18,291 --> 01:50:20,208
the places you guys go is amazing. It's

1431
01:50:20,208 --> 01:50:23,083
like a travel log. Just like where's

1432
01:50:23,083 --> 01:50:23,916
Chris and Monique this

1433
01:50:23,916 --> 01:50:24,125
point in the world here.

1434
01:50:25,125 --> 01:50:28,458
Yeah, I know we're very lucky. I mean,

1435
01:50:28,833 --> 01:50:30,583
you know, you far away in California, but

1436
01:50:30,583 --> 01:50:32,791
for us down here in Cape Town, we're

1437
01:50:32,791 --> 01:50:33,708
pretty accessible to

1438
01:50:33,708 --> 01:50:35,000
Southern Africa and East Africa.

1439
01:50:35,958 --> 01:50:38,041
And, you know, I think the wealth of

1440
01:50:38,041 --> 01:50:40,500
Africa is the continent of Africa is it's

1441
01:50:40,500 --> 01:50:42,791
wildlife. You know, we we still we still

1442
01:50:42,791 --> 01:50:45,583
have it here in good numbers and there's

1443
01:50:45,583 --> 01:50:46,125
incredible places to visit.

1444
01:50:46,125 --> 01:50:48,708
So, you know, we just try to make the

1445
01:50:48,708 --> 01:50:50,541
most of our opportunities of being here.

1446
01:50:50,916 --> 01:50:53,291
And yeah, we just think we love being the

1447
01:50:53,291 --> 01:50:54,541
most in nature. Like that's

1448
01:50:54,541 --> 01:50:55,625
what that's where we have here.

1449
01:50:55,625 --> 01:50:57,750
So if it's if it's on our small boat with

1450
01:50:57,750 --> 01:50:59,333
the school of dolphins or we're in a

1451
01:50:59,333 --> 01:51:01,500
little tent in the middle of nowhere, you

1452
01:51:01,500 --> 01:51:02,541
know, that's what we love.

1453
01:51:02,791 --> 01:51:04,416
And we're lucky we have the opportunity

1454
01:51:04,416 --> 01:51:07,000
to do things we love. And I think that

1455
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:09,000
goes back to storytelling, whether it's

1456
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:10,916
Christmas photography, it's me writing

1457
01:51:10,916 --> 01:51:12,625
books or writing blogs

1458
01:51:12,625 --> 01:51:13,125
or speaking on podcast.

1459
01:51:13,166 --> 01:51:16,083
It's so important for us that we can

1460
01:51:16,083 --> 01:51:18,375
share that with other people because I'm

1461
01:51:18,375 --> 01:51:20,708
very, very aware that it's not accessible

1462
01:51:20,708 --> 01:51:22,708
to everyone. And there are people that

1463
01:51:22,708 --> 01:51:23,791
that create that connection.

1464
01:51:24,625 --> 01:51:27,583
So I feel a huge responsibility in being

1465
01:51:27,583 --> 01:51:30,875
able to to provide that that bridge in

1466
01:51:30,875 --> 01:51:33,041
whatever small way that I can, you know,

1467
01:51:33,041 --> 01:51:34,041
it's good for humans and

1468
01:51:34,041 --> 01:51:35,125
it's good for wildlife as well.

1469
01:51:35,166 --> 01:51:40,750
Yeah. And we're out with your back to

1470
01:51:40,750 --> 01:51:42,291
your books. Where can you get your book

1471
01:51:42,291 --> 01:51:43,416
now? Are you able to get it in North

1472
01:51:43,416 --> 01:51:44,416
America at all? Or which

1473
01:51:44,416 --> 01:51:45,958
is just in South Africa?

1474
01:51:46,250 --> 01:51:48,458
So if there are any publishers listening,

1475
01:51:48,458 --> 01:51:51,083
I'm looking for someone in the US and the

1476
01:51:51,083 --> 01:51:55,000
UK, but it's Penguin Random House is the

1477
01:51:55,000 --> 01:51:56,833
publisher and it's available as a hard

1478
01:51:56,833 --> 01:51:58,125
copy in South Africa.

1479
01:51:58,166 --> 01:52:00,833
And then you can buy the e-box as well.

1480
01:52:01,291 --> 01:52:03,583
So that is available on I think it's on

1481
01:52:03,583 --> 01:52:05,875
Amazon. But if you go to the salty sea

1482
01:52:05,875 --> 01:52:08,666
dog books website, there's a there's a

1483
01:52:08,666 --> 01:52:10,541
page where it takes you to different

1484
01:52:10,541 --> 01:52:12,125
links where you can we can buy the books.

1485
01:52:12,125 --> 01:52:15,666
So yeah, so they have it on all the

1486
01:52:15,666 --> 01:52:18,000
different Amazon's even in Canada. You

1487
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:20,291
can buy I think if you want to buy the

1488
01:52:20,291 --> 01:52:22,041
hard copies, you have to go through South

1489
01:52:22,041 --> 01:52:24,333
Africa. And then if you want the e-book,

1490
01:52:24,333 --> 01:52:26,583
you go through Amazon, whether it's UK,

1491
01:52:26,625 --> 01:52:29,291
Amazon.com or Amazon. It's

1492
01:52:29,291 --> 01:52:31,125
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, thanks, Andrew.

1493
01:52:31,125 --> 01:52:33,583
Well, can we talk afterwards? I might

1494
01:52:33,583 --> 01:52:35,083
have a couple leads for you. I'll give to

1495
01:52:35,083 --> 01:52:35,958
you and you see if they go

1496
01:52:35,958 --> 01:52:37,250
anywhere to get them up here.

1497
01:52:37,250 --> 01:52:38,791
That would be amazing, Dave. Thank you.

1498
01:52:39,291 --> 01:52:40,958
Yeah, I know South Africa. They used to

1499
01:52:40,958 --> 01:52:43,000
produce them. I'm not as up on it now,

1500
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:44,166
but they used to produce some amazing

1501
01:52:44,166 --> 01:52:46,416
books, wildlife, particularly wildlife

1502
01:52:46,416 --> 01:52:49,458
and stuff. And but you couldn't get them

1503
01:52:49,458 --> 01:52:51,208
in North America, really, or they're

1504
01:52:51,208 --> 01:52:52,458
really pricey to get. And I

1505
01:52:52,458 --> 01:52:53,125
don't know why they don't.

1506
01:52:54,125 --> 01:52:56,666
So yeah, you know, you when you hear

1507
01:52:56,666 --> 01:52:58,500
Penguin Random House, you think that's,

1508
01:52:58,500 --> 01:53:00,166
oh, well, that's everywhere in the world.

1509
01:53:00,166 --> 01:53:02,541
But all the countries are quite separate.

1510
01:53:02,958 --> 01:53:05,250
So they seem to just publish within their

1511
01:53:05,250 --> 01:53:06,791
own territories. And there's not a lot of

1512
01:53:06,791 --> 01:53:08,750
communication between the two, which is a

1513
01:53:08,750 --> 01:53:10,041
shame, because I think there are lots of

1514
01:53:10,041 --> 01:53:12,458
books that are globally relevant. And it

1515
01:53:12,458 --> 01:53:13,583
would be nice if it were they were

1516
01:53:13,583 --> 01:53:14,875
easier, easily available.

1517
01:53:15,166 --> 01:53:17,166
Yeah, absolutely. And there's definitely

1518
01:53:17,166 --> 01:53:19,000
an audience for natural for books like

1519
01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:22,416
yours that just inspire kids and stuff or

1520
01:53:22,416 --> 01:53:24,208
just wildlife books and everything as

1521
01:53:24,208 --> 01:53:26,541
well. So it's kind of a anyway. Well,

1522
01:53:26,541 --> 01:53:28,291
we'll see if we can help you out on that

1523
01:53:28,291 --> 01:53:30,125
step. We'll definitely post your stuff

1524
01:53:30,125 --> 01:53:31,666
there after the show and stuff.

1525
01:53:32,291 --> 01:53:34,375
So so where do you see like this amazing

1526
01:53:34,375 --> 01:53:36,291
life you've been having here going from a

1527
01:53:36,291 --> 01:53:39,333
tennis star to being a wildlife

1528
01:53:39,333 --> 01:53:42,458
adventure? Where do you where do you see

1529
01:53:42,458 --> 01:53:44,125
you see you see yourself going now?

1530
01:53:44,125 --> 01:53:45,875
Well, you and Chris, where do you see

1531
01:53:45,875 --> 01:53:48,208
your journey going at this point?

1532
01:53:49,750 --> 01:53:51,875
I think it's really important to us.

1533
01:53:51,875 --> 01:53:54,875
We're at stage in our lives where we

1534
01:53:54,875 --> 01:53:57,375
climb the mountain and now everything

1535
01:53:57,375 --> 01:53:59,750
that we do going forward, it has to have

1536
01:53:59,750 --> 01:54:03,958
purpose and has to have meaning. So, you

1537
01:54:03,958 --> 01:54:06,125
know, through the sale of Chris's prints,

1538
01:54:06,583 --> 01:54:07,666
that's how we are being

1539
01:54:07,666 --> 01:54:09,125
able to afford buying land.

1540
01:54:09,125 --> 01:54:11,000
And so we would love to keep pushing

1541
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:13,500
really hard in that direction. There's

1542
01:54:13,500 --> 01:54:15,250
really great opportunities in Southern

1543
01:54:15,250 --> 01:54:17,666
Namibia that we would we'd like to keep

1544
01:54:17,666 --> 01:54:18,583
purchasing and

1545
01:54:18,583 --> 01:54:20,125
gobbling up and connecting.

1546
01:54:20,166 --> 01:54:23,875
So a very big focus of ours is on on

1547
01:54:23,875 --> 01:54:26,916
Chris's wildlife prints that he sells as

1548
01:54:26,916 --> 01:54:30,625
limited edition. And, you know, now that

1549
01:54:30,625 --> 01:54:32,833
I've written two books, I just want to

1550
01:54:32,833 --> 01:54:34,583
keep writing more because there's so many

1551
01:54:34,583 --> 01:54:36,333
amazing subjects that we can bring to

1552
01:54:36,333 --> 01:54:37,916
life, you know, in the way

1553
01:54:37,916 --> 01:54:39,125
that that that I've done it.

1554
01:54:39,125 --> 01:54:41,500
And I feel like I've got a lot that I

1555
01:54:41,500 --> 01:54:44,125
want to share still on and every story

1556
01:54:44,125 --> 01:54:46,291
that I tell it's yes, it's a kid's book

1557
01:54:46,291 --> 01:54:47,916
and it needs to be fun and interactive.

1558
01:54:48,750 --> 01:54:51,958
But I think I'll try put in a subtle

1559
01:54:51,958 --> 01:54:53,958
little message. So, you know, with Sandy

1560
01:54:53,958 --> 01:54:55,666
and salty sea dogs, it's all about

1561
01:54:55,666 --> 01:54:56,625
ecosystems and how

1562
01:54:56,625 --> 01:54:57,791
everything animals important.

1563
01:54:58,125 --> 01:55:00,166
And with Lucy and the great white sharks,

1564
01:55:00,708 --> 01:55:02,416
I really wanted the young reader to kind

1565
01:55:02,416 --> 01:55:05,416
of understand what is a predator and yes,

1566
01:55:05,416 --> 01:55:07,791
predators catch, kill and eat things. But

1567
01:55:07,791 --> 01:55:08,500
it doesn't mean that we

1568
01:55:08,500 --> 01:55:09,583
need to be afraid of them.

1569
01:55:10,041 --> 01:55:11,833
If anything, we need to respect them,

1570
01:55:12,041 --> 01:55:13,791
even if we don't love them. And I was

1571
01:55:13,791 --> 01:55:15,166
trying to put across an understanding

1572
01:55:15,166 --> 01:55:17,125
that predators are so important. They

1573
01:55:17,125 --> 01:55:18,833
play such important roles in keeping

1574
01:55:18,833 --> 01:55:20,125
ecosystems healthy and strong.

1575
01:55:21,125 --> 01:55:23,458
So, yeah, there's lots of lessons in

1576
01:55:23,458 --> 01:55:25,166
wildlife that I would love to be able to

1577
01:55:25,166 --> 01:55:28,083
impart. And, you know, you never know how

1578
01:55:28,083 --> 01:55:30,333
many people you reach. But for me, if

1579
01:55:30,333 --> 01:55:33,833
it's one or two kids that really get the

1580
01:55:33,833 --> 01:55:35,208
lesson and they go on to do something

1581
01:55:35,208 --> 01:55:37,083
great, like we have to make sure that

1582
01:55:37,083 --> 01:55:38,875
those stories are keep being rewritten

1583
01:55:38,875 --> 01:55:41,916
going forward because, yeah, I just I

1584
01:55:41,916 --> 01:55:43,458
just feel like I don't want to sit back

1585
01:55:43,458 --> 01:55:44,125
and not do anything.

1586
01:55:44,125 --> 01:55:46,291
I want to be able to give back and, you

1587
01:55:46,291 --> 01:55:48,625
know, Chris feels the same way. And and

1588
01:55:48,625 --> 01:55:50,625
you can only do so in the way that you

1589
01:55:50,625 --> 01:55:52,166
can. You can only look at your little

1590
01:55:52,166 --> 01:55:54,208
patch and think, well, how can I make a

1591
01:55:54,208 --> 01:55:55,125
difference in my patch?

1592
01:55:55,583 --> 01:55:56,791
And as long as you've got that gumption

1593
01:55:56,791 --> 01:55:59,833
to go ahead and try, then then I think

1594
01:55:59,833 --> 01:56:02,458
small battles can be one, you know, so so

1595
01:56:02,458 --> 01:56:05,500
we're going to keep fighting and lots of

1596
01:56:05,500 --> 01:56:08,125
battles out there. And everything for us

1597
01:56:08,125 --> 01:56:08,750
going forward is

1598
01:56:08,750 --> 01:56:09,875
about purpose and meaning.

1599
01:56:10,166 --> 01:56:13,416
Yeah, yeah. Sort of the plus thing here.

1600
01:56:13,416 --> 01:56:14,958
It's been a it's been a fascinating talk

1601
01:56:14,958 --> 01:56:17,250
with you. What advice would you have for

1602
01:56:17,250 --> 01:56:19,583
some young person, say, like yourself,

1603
01:56:19,791 --> 01:56:21,208
who maybe was doing something different

1604
01:56:21,208 --> 01:56:24,041
and had an opportunity to go in this

1605
01:56:24,041 --> 01:56:25,333
direction of their career? What do you

1606
01:56:25,333 --> 01:56:26,125
have any advice for them?

1607
01:56:26,125 --> 01:56:30,333
I think two two bits of advice is that

1608
01:56:30,333 --> 01:56:32,333
passion is going to take you a long way

1609
01:56:32,333 --> 01:56:34,666
because, you know, these journeys are not

1610
01:56:34,666 --> 01:56:37,333
easy and you have to have that fire

1611
01:56:37,333 --> 01:56:39,500
inside you that makes you want to keep

1612
01:56:39,500 --> 01:56:40,750
going and doing what you're doing.

1613
01:56:41,541 --> 01:56:43,666
So keep being passionate and no matter

1614
01:56:43,666 --> 01:56:46,958
what it is in any sphere of interest that

1615
01:56:46,958 --> 01:56:48,750
you have that you want to go into

1616
01:56:48,750 --> 01:56:50,958
something. But the second thing is always

1617
01:56:50,958 --> 01:56:54,333
say yes. If there's an opportunity, say

1618
01:56:54,333 --> 01:56:56,333
yes. Even if it's something that you're

1619
01:56:56,333 --> 01:56:57,958
afraid of or you're not sure that you can

1620
01:56:57,958 --> 01:57:00,291
do it, just say yes because you never

1621
01:57:00,291 --> 01:57:02,333
know how doors open from

1622
01:57:02,333 --> 01:57:03,750
saying yes to opportunities.

1623
01:57:04,125 --> 01:57:06,333
So never be afraid to put yourself out

1624
01:57:06,333 --> 01:57:08,666
there. It's not easy to put yourself out

1625
01:57:08,666 --> 01:57:10,333
there, but just do it. You never know

1626
01:57:10,333 --> 01:57:12,166
what comes across it and it doesn't work.

1627
01:57:12,375 --> 01:57:14,166
That's fine. Another one will come along.

1628
01:57:14,708 --> 01:57:17,291
So yeah, those would be my

1629
01:57:17,291 --> 01:57:19,250
two bits of bits of advice.

1630
01:57:19,541 --> 01:57:22,000
Well, that's what's great. That's really,

1631
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:24,000
really good advice. That's really good

1632
01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:26,708
advice, Monique. And thank you so much

1633
01:57:26,708 --> 01:57:27,958
for coming on the show today. We

1634
01:57:27,958 --> 01:57:29,250
definitely we're going to have you back

1635
01:57:29,250 --> 01:57:31,208
here at some point. Maybe we'll figure

1636
01:57:31,208 --> 01:57:32,208
out something. We definitely

1637
01:57:32,208 --> 01:57:33,125
had some fascinating story.

1638
01:57:33,125 --> 01:57:35,666
And that's what we like doing about the

1639
01:57:35,666 --> 01:57:37,541
podcast is people like yourself just has

1640
01:57:37,541 --> 01:57:39,833
amazing journeys, especially when someone

1641
01:57:39,833 --> 01:57:42,041
like yourself started out in tennis and

1642
01:57:42,041 --> 01:57:43,958
went a completely different direction. So

1643
01:57:43,958 --> 01:57:47,500
anyway, well, thanks, Dave. And thanks,

1644
01:57:47,500 --> 01:57:49,125
Andrew. Yeah, I've loved telling to you

1645
01:57:49,125 --> 01:57:52,458
guys. And yeah, I just yeah, it's like I

1646
01:57:52,458 --> 01:57:54,291
said, it's great to share. So thank you

1647
01:57:54,291 --> 01:57:55,125
for giving me the chance to do so.

1648
01:57:55,125 --> 01:57:57,875
Absolutely. And the next time we have

1649
01:57:57,875 --> 01:57:59,666
Chris, I'm gonna ask about his his tennis

1650
01:57:59,666 --> 01:58:00,750
record against you just

1651
01:58:00,750 --> 01:58:04,375
to get a different answer.

1652
01:58:05,458 --> 01:58:12,125
Have him react to it.

1653
01:58:13,125 --> 01:58:16,125
That's awesome. This has been absolutely

1654
01:58:16,125 --> 01:58:18,041
wonderful to have you on the podcast get

1655
01:58:18,041 --> 01:58:20,583
to know you more. And we'll post the

1656
01:58:20,583 --> 01:58:22,333
links for people who are interested in

1657
01:58:22,333 --> 01:58:25,125
getting those books for their kids and

1658
01:58:25,125 --> 01:58:27,583
friends, kids and everybody to get more

1659
01:58:27,583 --> 01:58:30,666
information out on predators and what why

1660
01:58:30,666 --> 01:58:33,375
dogs love the ocean to I mean, let's

1661
01:58:33,375 --> 01:58:34,041
let's let's be honest.

1662
01:58:34,250 --> 01:58:35,125
That's it's a natural.

1663
01:58:35,125 --> 01:58:36,500
That'd be amazing. That they're curious.

1664
01:58:36,833 --> 01:58:38,291
Yeah, absolutely. Love it. Thank you so

1665
01:58:38,291 --> 01:58:39,708
much for coming on. We appreciate it.

1666
01:58:39,916 --> 01:58:41,750
Good. Great. Thanks, guys. It's a real

1667
01:58:41,750 --> 01:58:44,166
pleasure. Thank you many for joining us

1668
01:58:44,166 --> 01:58:46,125
on today's episode of the Beyond Jaws

1669
01:58:46,125 --> 01:58:48,708
podcast, Dave, to go from I mean, you

1670
01:58:48,708 --> 01:58:50,166
were an athlete in college, we've talked

1671
01:58:50,166 --> 01:58:51,958
to other athletes, you know, on this

1672
01:58:51,958 --> 01:58:53,833
podcast, there's something different

1673
01:58:53,833 --> 01:58:55,625
about athletes at this level, whether

1674
01:58:55,625 --> 01:58:56,916
it's college level, whether it's

1675
01:58:56,916 --> 01:58:59,208
professional level, they have this work

1676
01:58:59,208 --> 01:59:01,625
ethic that they that that you've you've

1677
01:59:01,625 --> 01:59:03,291
accrued over your childhood

1678
01:59:03,291 --> 01:59:05,125
and over high school, and to

1679
01:59:05,166 --> 01:59:08,208
college and into like your 20s, that just

1680
01:59:08,208 --> 01:59:10,250
never really leaves, right? Like you just

1681
01:59:10,250 --> 01:59:12,458
have this ability to retain like the

1682
01:59:12,458 --> 01:59:14,791
discipline and what need what you need to

1683
01:59:14,791 --> 01:59:17,458
succeed. I thought it was it really came

1684
01:59:17,458 --> 01:59:19,708
out in this in this episode with Monique

1685
01:59:19,708 --> 01:59:22,083
going from tennis background to or

1686
01:59:22,083 --> 01:59:24,041
professional tennis, and then coming into

1687
01:59:24,041 --> 01:59:25,125
like, I don't know really what I'm going

1688
01:59:25,125 --> 01:59:26,625
to do find something she's passionate

1689
01:59:26,625 --> 01:59:29,291
about, and then dives into it, you know,

1690
01:59:29,291 --> 01:59:31,375
pretty much at first, I guess, if I'm

1691
01:59:31,375 --> 01:59:33,166
going to go take this, this part all the

1692
01:59:33,166 --> 01:59:34,125
all the way to the end, but

1693
01:59:34,125 --> 01:59:35,125
it's been quite interesting.

1694
01:59:35,166 --> 01:59:37,333
Yeah, no, it was a fascinating story. And

1695
01:59:37,333 --> 01:59:38,500
I really, I said, I really didn't know

1696
01:59:38,500 --> 01:59:40,041
Chris, I've known for a while and stuff I

1697
01:59:40,041 --> 01:59:41,791
knew a bit about his background. He's of

1698
01:59:41,791 --> 01:59:43,458
course, he's been on the podcast. But

1699
01:59:43,458 --> 01:59:45,000
Monique, I, you know, I knew her name,

1700
01:59:45,000 --> 01:59:47,166
but I never met her never talked with

1701
01:59:47,166 --> 01:59:47,916
her, I didn't really know what her

1702
01:59:47,916 --> 01:59:49,250
background other than she was involved

1703
01:59:49,250 --> 01:59:51,791
with, with the stuff that Chris does. But

1704
01:59:51,791 --> 01:59:52,916
it's fascinating. I mean, I didn't know

1705
01:59:52,916 --> 01:59:54,791
she realized she was a before the before

1706
01:59:54,791 --> 01:59:56,625
the episode, she was a professional

1707
01:59:56,625 --> 01:59:58,333
tennis player, and you do, there's a

1708
01:59:58,333 --> 01:59:59,916
certain discipline you learn when you're

1709
01:59:59,916 --> 02:00:02,041
doing athletics, you know, especially you

1710
02:00:02,041 --> 02:00:03,541
get to a college level, or definitely a

1711
02:00:03,541 --> 02:00:05,125
professional level, you got to be fun.

1712
02:00:05,166 --> 02:00:06,125
And I think she's really focused on that.

1713
02:00:06,458 --> 02:00:08,625
And, and a lot of that, what you learn

1714
02:00:08,625 --> 02:00:10,375
those skills there translates can

1715
02:00:10,375 --> 02:00:11,916
translate into your professional life,

1716
02:00:11,916 --> 02:00:13,708
wherever you end up going. It was

1717
02:00:13,708 --> 02:00:15,000
interesting that she said, you know, the

1718
02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:17,125
time she was 21 or so, she knew her

1719
02:00:17,125 --> 02:00:20,041
career was pretty much, she kind of got

1720
02:00:20,041 --> 02:00:21,291
as far as she was going to go in the

1721
02:00:21,291 --> 02:00:22,833
tennis career, and it was kind of

1722
02:00:22,833 --> 02:00:25,333
fortuitous that she met Chris when she

1723
02:00:25,333 --> 02:00:28,750
did. And, and you know, all the skills,

1724
02:00:29,000 --> 02:00:30,875
so she can she, we always talk about

1725
02:00:30,875 --> 02:00:32,208
people in this field, never have a

1726
02:00:32,208 --> 02:00:33,208
straight line journey.

1727
02:00:34,125 --> 02:00:35,458
And she wasn't even interested in sharks,

1728
02:00:35,458 --> 02:00:37,291
never thought about sharks. She wasn't

1729
02:00:37,291 --> 02:00:39,625
even really a water person, having grown

1730
02:00:39,625 --> 02:00:41,458
up having grown up around Cape Town,

1731
02:00:41,458 --> 02:00:44,291
which is hard for me to believe, but I do

1732
02:00:44,291 --> 02:00:46,916
believe that but but yeah, that she said

1733
02:00:46,916 --> 02:00:49,166
that she she's a boat captain now she's

1734
02:00:49,166 --> 02:00:51,750
out. Yeah, photographer. She's out in the

1735
02:00:51,750 --> 02:00:54,791
water all the time. She travels all over

1736
02:00:54,791 --> 02:00:56,791
the world with Chris doing and, you know,

1737
02:00:56,791 --> 02:00:58,291
she's actively involved with a real

1738
02:00:58,291 --> 02:01:00,583
partner in the whole operation. And that

1739
02:01:00,583 --> 02:01:01,541
was, that was an

1740
02:01:01,541 --> 02:01:03,083
incredible story. I don't know.

1741
02:01:03,291 --> 02:01:05,125
She's like a, she's like a great kept

1742
02:01:05,125 --> 02:01:07,541
secret. I got a, you know, discovery,

1743
02:01:07,541 --> 02:01:08,708
anybody's out there, listen, you got to

1744
02:01:08,708 --> 02:01:11,000
get her out there. And some future

1745
02:01:11,000 --> 02:01:11,875
episodes. She was

1746
02:01:11,875 --> 02:01:13,791
terrific on the whole thing.

1747
02:01:14,541 --> 02:01:16,125
No doubt. I mean, that's something that's

1748
02:01:16,125 --> 02:01:18,791
been, you know, this is what's great

1749
02:01:18,791 --> 02:01:20,541
about doing these interviews is we get to

1750
02:01:20,541 --> 02:01:22,083
talk about people who are not only known

1751
02:01:22,083 --> 02:01:26,125
in in the field, but also, you know,

1752
02:01:26,125 --> 02:01:27,958
people who aren't as well known or their

1753
02:01:27,958 --> 02:01:30,500
story, the of how they got to where they

1754
02:01:30,500 --> 02:01:32,583
are, and when what they decide to do with

1755
02:01:32,583 --> 02:01:34,083
it when they got there are not known.

1756
02:01:34,083 --> 02:01:36,625
And we're able to share this story

1757
02:01:36,625 --> 02:01:37,791
because I think there's a there's a lot

1758
02:01:37,791 --> 02:01:40,375
of people who may not have gone to

1759
02:01:40,375 --> 02:01:43,208
university for, you know, science or

1760
02:01:43,208 --> 02:01:46,291
marine biology or fishery

1761
02:01:46,291 --> 02:01:48,083
science or anything like that.

1762
02:01:48,458 --> 02:01:50,708
But they have this passion and they have

1763
02:01:50,708 --> 02:01:52,416
this ability to contribute. And I think

1764
02:01:52,416 --> 02:01:55,458
we've seen time and time again, it's

1765
02:01:55,458 --> 02:01:56,750
happened, especially with this interview

1766
02:01:56,750 --> 02:01:59,208
where we've seen many contribute to

1767
02:01:59,208 --> 02:02:03,000
documenting air jaws over the years and

1768
02:02:03,000 --> 02:02:04,250
documenting that population.

1769
02:02:04,500 --> 02:02:06,041
And of course, you know, we get we get

1770
02:02:06,041 --> 02:02:07,291
into it a little bit of what's been

1771
02:02:07,291 --> 02:02:11,125
happening with the population and, you

1772
02:02:11,125 --> 02:02:12,625
know, and how disappointing it is and

1773
02:02:12,625 --> 02:02:14,625
then how she how she sees the changes,

1774
02:02:14,625 --> 02:02:15,666
you know, along with Chris.

1775
02:02:16,125 --> 02:02:17,916
And then also at the end, you know, we

1776
02:02:17,916 --> 02:02:19,916
talk about their contribution back, you

1777
02:02:19,916 --> 02:02:21,875
know, they they've been able to prosper

1778
02:02:21,875 --> 02:02:25,208
over documenting why wildlife encounters

1779
02:02:25,208 --> 02:02:27,291
for a number of decades.

1780
02:02:28,083 --> 02:02:29,791
And now they want to give back by

1781
02:02:29,791 --> 02:02:32,416
purchasing land in the Bibi and being

1782
02:02:32,416 --> 02:02:34,875
able to have the sanctuaries and or or

1783
02:02:34,875 --> 02:02:37,500
like on the process, like on this journey

1784
02:02:37,500 --> 02:02:40,125
to create these corridors that allow

1785
02:02:40,125 --> 02:02:42,000
animals to move back and forth without

1786
02:02:42,000 --> 02:02:43,916
having any kind of development on their

1787
02:02:43,916 --> 02:02:45,166
further development on there.

1788
02:02:45,166 --> 02:02:46,708
I think she said that they bought like

1789
02:02:46,708 --> 02:02:48,083
agricultural land. So that'll be

1790
02:02:48,083 --> 02:02:49,708
interesting. And then she journey that

1791
02:02:49,708 --> 02:02:51,500
hopefully we can come back and both of

1792
02:02:51,500 --> 02:02:52,416
them can share what

1793
02:02:52,416 --> 02:02:53,708
that process was like.

1794
02:02:54,125 --> 02:02:55,666
And I've been to that area. They're

1795
02:02:55,666 --> 02:02:57,416
talking about Fish River Canyon. It's

1796
02:02:57,416 --> 02:02:59,333
beautiful. It's a stark difference, but

1797
02:02:59,333 --> 02:03:01,333
it's just it's beautiful stuff. And

1798
02:03:01,333 --> 02:03:02,833
obviously, if you listen to the show,

1799
02:03:02,833 --> 02:03:03,333
you've heard me talk

1800
02:03:03,333 --> 02:03:05,375
endlessly about Namibia and stuff.

1801
02:03:06,208 --> 02:03:07,958
And but but, you know, but yeah, it's

1802
02:03:07,958 --> 02:03:10,125
amazing. It's great to see. It's amazing.

1803
02:03:10,333 --> 02:03:12,125
But it's really great to see like people

1804
02:03:12,125 --> 02:03:13,625
like this, like, you know, they've been

1805
02:03:13,625 --> 02:03:15,583
very done very well, you know, giving

1806
02:03:15,583 --> 02:03:17,833
back to their, you know, giving back, you

1807
02:03:17,833 --> 02:03:19,541
know, in the form of like this, this,

1808
02:03:19,541 --> 02:03:20,083
this air, this agricultural land.

1809
02:03:21,083 --> 02:03:22,333
They're going to buy and to have it turn

1810
02:03:22,333 --> 02:03:24,875
into an animal sanctuary in a way for the

1811
02:03:24,875 --> 02:03:25,875
animals can migrate,

1812
02:03:26,291 --> 02:03:28,083
which is a big deal in Africa.

1813
02:03:29,375 --> 02:03:31,166
You know, because the animals got it like

1814
02:03:31,166 --> 02:03:32,541
an amphibian. So they have to migrate a

1815
02:03:32,541 --> 02:03:35,291
long ways to water, which is kind of the

1816
02:03:35,291 --> 02:03:37,625
essence of everything else going on.

1817
02:03:37,958 --> 02:03:40,250
And so the really good story. Chris kind

1818
02:03:40,250 --> 02:03:42,333
of touched on it. We we spoke with them.

1819
02:03:42,333 --> 02:03:43,875
But, you know, Monique really got into it

1820
02:03:43,875 --> 02:03:45,083
a lot. I thought a little more on the whole thing.

1821
02:03:45,083 --> 02:03:47,875
And yeah, definitely great to have them

1822
02:03:47,875 --> 02:03:50,041
have her have both of them come back,

1823
02:03:50,041 --> 02:03:51,583
talk a little more about that later on as

1824
02:03:51,583 --> 02:03:54,708
it gets further developed. But but yeah,

1825
02:03:54,708 --> 02:03:59,375
it's I say she was she was quite a fine

1826
02:03:59,375 --> 02:04:01,458
tough for us to get on the show because I

1827
02:04:01,458 --> 02:04:03,708
know she doesn't do a lot of media, which

1828
02:04:03,708 --> 02:04:05,416
is terrible in the media part

1829
02:04:05,416 --> 02:04:06,083
because she was she was great.

1830
02:04:06,083 --> 02:04:09,291
And she should she. Oh, yeah. I hope with

1831
02:04:09,291 --> 02:04:10,666
this episode, she'll start to get out a

1832
02:04:10,666 --> 02:04:12,333
little more and some other that some

1833
02:04:12,333 --> 02:04:14,416
other media will have her on podcasts or

1834
02:04:14,416 --> 02:04:18,583
or or or on programs, documentary nature,

1835
02:04:18,583 --> 02:04:19,416
documentary stuff

1836
02:04:19,416 --> 02:04:21,500
because, yeah, she was terrific.

1837
02:04:21,500 --> 02:04:22,750
She knows her stuff, too. She really

1838
02:04:22,750 --> 02:04:24,666
spent all that time out there. She knows

1839
02:04:24,666 --> 02:04:26,791
she knows definitely no sharks, shark

1840
02:04:26,791 --> 02:04:27,958
behavior. She's learned about

1841
02:04:27,958 --> 02:04:28,083
the marine environment there.

1842
02:04:28,083 --> 02:04:32,000
And she can talk as well as anyone about

1843
02:04:32,000 --> 02:04:33,208
what's going on out there, which is which

1844
02:04:33,208 --> 02:04:35,875
that's a whole other thing just coming

1845
02:04:35,875 --> 02:04:38,708
from no formal training to be able to

1846
02:04:38,708 --> 02:04:40,708
like pick up and stuff like that.

1847
02:04:40,708 --> 02:04:42,458
That's phenomenal. Really amazing.

1848
02:04:43,041 --> 02:04:44,708
Agreed. Agreed. I think it's something

1849
02:04:44,708 --> 02:04:47,958
that we need more more people like that

1850
02:04:47,958 --> 02:04:49,083
and getting their stories out. Right.

1851
02:04:49,125 --> 02:04:50,791
Yeah, that's why we do these podcasts

1852
02:04:50,791 --> 02:04:52,250
because that's what we want to do. We

1853
02:04:52,250 --> 02:04:54,000
want to get these types of stories out

1854
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:56,208
because they need to be told. And that's

1855
02:04:56,208 --> 02:04:57,583
what's that's what's fun about that. So

1856
02:04:57,583 --> 02:04:59,583
we want to thank Monique for coming on.

1857
02:04:59,583 --> 02:05:01,625
We're going to put links to her books

1858
02:05:01,625 --> 02:05:04,541
that you can buy, whether it's if you're

1859
02:05:04,541 --> 02:05:05,875
in Australia, you can buy the physical

1860
02:05:05,875 --> 02:05:09,416
copy. If you are in elsewhere, you can go

1861
02:05:09,416 --> 02:05:11,083
to Amazon. You can buy her books there.

1862
02:05:11,125 --> 02:05:13,708
I highly recommend that you get them for

1863
02:05:13,708 --> 02:05:15,458
your children, for your children's

1864
02:05:15,458 --> 02:05:17,833
children, for friends of like the

1865
02:05:17,833 --> 02:05:19,250
children's friends, whatever that might

1866
02:05:19,250 --> 02:05:20,791
be. But it's a great book and it teaches

1867
02:05:20,791 --> 02:05:25,916
you know how to just be good and kind to

1868
02:05:25,916 --> 02:05:27,791
the environment, which is great. And it

1869
02:05:27,791 --> 02:05:29,000
documents their dogs, which

1870
02:05:29,000 --> 02:05:30,125
I think is kind of cool too.

1871
02:05:30,625 --> 02:05:32,916
Yeah, but yeah, Dave, if people want to

1872
02:05:32,916 --> 02:05:34,083
get ahold of you, how would they do so?

1873
02:05:34,125 --> 02:05:37,625
As a lost shark guy on Instagram and

1874
02:05:37,625 --> 02:05:40,541
YouTube channel, a lost shark guy. And

1875
02:05:40,541 --> 02:05:43,041
please go to both Instagram and YouTube

1876
02:05:43,041 --> 02:05:44,958
and subscribe. I appreciate it.

1877
02:05:45,583 --> 02:05:47,041
Absolutely. And if you want to get a

1878
02:05:47,041 --> 02:05:49,375
little less beyond Jaws Pod on Instagram,

1879
02:05:49,375 --> 02:05:51,333
you can DM us. All the links are in the

1880
02:05:51,333 --> 02:05:53,291
show notes. I highly recommend that you

1881
02:05:53,291 --> 02:05:54,833
go check that out. And of course, if you

1882
02:05:54,833 --> 02:05:56,208
want to support the work that we do in

1883
02:05:56,208 --> 02:05:57,708
this work that work that I do for

1884
02:05:57,708 --> 02:05:59,291
podcasting everything, you can go to

1885
02:05:59,291 --> 02:06:01,083
speakupforblue.com forward slash Patreon.

1886
02:06:01,083 --> 02:06:04,791
And you can support us there at different

1887
02:06:04,791 --> 02:06:06,791
different tiers, support the work that I

1888
02:06:06,791 --> 02:06:09,125
do on this podcast, as well as others and

1889
02:06:09,125 --> 02:06:10,666
all that kind of stuff. So well, thank

1890
02:06:10,666 --> 02:06:12,208
you so much for joining us on today's

1891
02:06:12,208 --> 02:06:14,083
episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast from

1892
02:06:14,083 --> 02:06:15,541
Dave and I have a great day. We'll talk

1893
02:06:15,541 --> 02:06:17,166
to you next time. And happy conservation.