Can We Study the Ocean Without Harming It?

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Here's a question for you.

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Can we study the ocean without harming it?

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And what if you can actually study
marine life without disturbing it at all?

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This is the How to Protect the Ocean
podcast, your weekday ocean news update.

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If you are looking for a resource in
the form of a podcast that is all about

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the ocean and keeping you up to date
on what's happening with the ocean, but

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also how you can make better decisions
for the ocean, this is the place to be.

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because we are posting episodes
five days a week, Monday to Friday.

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Now, normally, if this is your
first time here, we do an episode,

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a solo episode Monday to Thursday,
and an interview on the Friday.

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And then we have the topic's the same.

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There's like a theme for that week, and
I prepare you for the interview, so

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I break it down in the solo episodes.

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This week we're doing
something a little different.

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We've been talking about different
stories, kinda randomized stories

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that I thought was interesting.

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There's no interview tomorrow, but
you can tune in and we're gonna be

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talking about a randomized news item
that I think is really important.

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so you can get more ocean news.

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Let's go back to this question.

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Can we observe marine life
without interfering with it?

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Science is extremely important.

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We need to discover trends.

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We need to see if they're good.

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We need to see if they're bad.

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We need to plan out studies with
local communities and make sure

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that things are being addressed
the way they need to be addressed.

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But in that methodology, which we often
ignore as non-scientists, like even

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for me, when I look at a paper, if I'm
looking at a science journal where they

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have the methods, the whole scientific
process, I'll look at the intro.

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I might look at the results, but
I'll look at the interpretation,

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like the discussion, and then
I'll look at the conclusion.

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I rarely look at the methods unless
it's a new method or somebody mentions

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it and it's something new that I'm
interested in, 'cause I do like methods,

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especially when I'm in the field.

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You have to know the methods,
and they're very important.

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But, like, we really need to focus
on methods that are the least

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disturbance on the animals that we're
studying or the ecosystems that we're

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studying, the habitats and so forth.

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Because without having that inkling,
like, if you're using technology,

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new technology, and you are harming
the animals by using that technology,

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or you're interfering with their
regular life, their natural life,

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you are truly not getting the true
representation of what you're expecting.

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When you go in with that science
question or that null hypothesis

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where you're, like, testing, like,
can this statement be falsified?

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And you realize that the instrument
that you're using to measure and

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determine whether that statement is
true or false is harming the animal,

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or it's disturbing the animal in a
way that could affect your results.

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I mean, disturbing the animal
just in general is not good.

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But if you're trying to do
that without disturbing, that's

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the better way to doing it.

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And so we need to do more about making
sure that we're not interfering it.

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And I was on Phys.org the other day,
and I saw this article that looked at

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how drones were affecting whale sharks.

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Now, you would think this is kind of
weird because whale sharks are underwater.

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Drones are above the water, unless
they have actually underwater drones,

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we're gonna check out in a moment.

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But if you wanna track that
data, drones can cause noise.

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They can interfere, they can
hit, they can do whatever.

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And drones have been used to track
marine mammals under special permits.

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But there was a lot of worries in
the past about when drones first

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started coming out about who can
use a drone and what you can do.

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Now you have to get your pilot's license
and a drone pilot's license to make

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sure that you're flying it properly.

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But in this study, researchers used
motion sensors and tracking data.

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So not just observation.

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They're looking for some other things.

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And I think that's what's really
interesting is looking at how

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these drones would affect the
animals, ' cause they flew the drones

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above the animals and found that
no detectable change in behavior.

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Well, that's really important, because
it suggests that drones may be a low

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impact way of studying certain species.

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With whales that come up to the
surface or dolphins that come up to the

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surface, you may see them come up to the
surface, and then a drone comes down.

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You don't wanna touch it.

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You don't want the noise to bother
it because you know that pods of

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marine mammals will communicate
with each other because of noise.

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We've seen a lot of noise impact studies
on the social behavior of whales and the

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communication of whales in the past,
especially when it comes to a lot of boat

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shipping tracks or shipping observations
or also seismic survey observations.

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And so we know the impacts on those.

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But, knowing how drones affect
certain species is really important.

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There's a challenge in science, right?

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To study animals, we
don't wanna disturb them.

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We wanna make sure that they're fine.

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So you have boats, you got tags,
which obviously disturb them cause

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you have to actually tag them.

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You got divers in the water.

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There are trade-offs.

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So certain times you have to interfere.

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You have to interfere
with their regular path.

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You have to tag them to find
out where they go like, tagging.

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Studies have come so far and have
allowed us to understand so much more

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about animals and how far they go.

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The first sea turtle ever tracked, Dr.
Wallace J. Nichols, was with a team.

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When they tagged the sea turtle, I think
it was a leatherback sea turtle or a

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loggerhead, I don't remember, but it went
from Baja California all the way to Japan.

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So we're starting to see these
long migration routes that

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these animals are taking.

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The other month, I did an episode of the
Beyond Jaws with MarAlliance's, Rachel

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Graham, who's the executive director.

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She's talked to Dave Ebert and I,
about a study where they saw, they

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observed, they tagged a tiger shark
and observed the longest transatlantic

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tiger shark migration from the Cape Verde
islands all the way to Brazil and back.

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That's pretty long, and we never would
have realized it if we hadn't tagged them.

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So tagging does provide a lot
of great information on how

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animals travel in the ocean.

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But also, there's some concern
about how tags work and, like, if

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they harm the animal long term.

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There are studies to show that they
don't, but there's special ethics

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that you have to go through when you
go through these research methods.

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And so, tagging is part of that.

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Drones are another one
that have been studied.

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Drones might reduce the interference
that tagging provides or divers provide.

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But this doesn't apply to everything.

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Other species, like whales
they can react to drones.

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So it's not just a free
pass of using drones.

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It's a step forward for certain species,
maybe species that don't come to the

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surface out, as often and we can
actually see them through the water.

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So manta rays, any animal that you can
follow easily with a certain pattern.

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So whale sharks matter because they
have unique patterns on their back,

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so you can identify individuals.

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You can follow these with drones,
although they'd be difficult to follow.

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You'd have to use a
boat a certain distance.

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So there's still some problems
in there from the methodology.

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These are what scientists consider
when they use these different types

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of instruments, is how far can you
be without having to interfere with

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their regular migration pattern.

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So it is a step forward.

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It's good to have these types of
above water drones, underwater drones.

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They provide a lot of information,
but you have to be careful, and you

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have to look at, how you use them.

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So the next step for these
drones is refinement.

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We have to understand which species would
be sensitive, because you don't wanna go

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to the point where, oh man, these species
have reacted to this drone, because then

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you're not really doing them a favor.

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But you have to understand what
species would be more sensitive

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to using drones in that area.

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You have to set up guidelines, and you
have to use these tools responsibly.

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There are a lot of best practices
documents out there for specific

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species in using certain technology,
which I think is really important.

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There's a lot of ethical documents,
depending on the country, that you have

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to fill out, and you have to get permits
to work in and around some of these

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animals, especially marine mammals.

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Maybe not so much sharks, unless
you're tagging them, you have

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to get special permission.

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So that's important.

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And you have to use
these tools responsibly.

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It's not just setting up guides.

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You have to use them responsibly,
because better technology only

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matters if we use it well.

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And as scientists, we have this
obligation to make sure that we are

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not harming to the point where we are
providing a detriment to their health,

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where you're harming the animal, and
you're not getting the right data.

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And look, there are a lot of
people who are against things

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like tagging and certain ways that
scientists conduct their methods.

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For some things, I say, "Hey, look,
let the science speak for itself.

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You have to trust scientists in
certain ways." But other times,

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I'll be like, "Hey, you know what?

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If you don't think this is right,
then follow the science, talk to

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the right people, and pressure
scientists to change if that's deemed

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necessary." I think it's important.

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I think it's important that scientists
just don't go on their own in their

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own circles and just be like, "Yeah,
these guys are kooks, or these activists

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are trying to get us to change." I
think there's a certain way that these

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activists and advocates can actually
work with scientists to ensure that

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they are doing the proper thing.

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People may not like the way certain things
like tags are added onto the animal, or

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how the animal may or may not be affected.

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I don't think it's wrong to add pressure
to the scientific community to make

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sure that we're doing it properly.

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But when the evidence comes in to
say, "Hey, we're actually not harming

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these," or it's showing, like, that
it's actually better to do this and

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to understand how we can protect them.

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'Cause a lot of tagging studies,
especially tagging, 'cause I talked a

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lot about that in this episode because
a lot of people are against it, it has

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provided ways to protect sharks and
other species because of the information

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that we learned from the tagging.

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So when you look at the overall picture,
it actually ends up being better.

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You may not agree with that, and I
would love to hear from you because

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that's something that I always
like to hear from people who are

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interested in protecting animals all
the way to the science methodology.

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The future of the ocean isn't just about
what we study, it's about how we study

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it, and to make sure that we are doing
it properly, and to make sure that the

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animals have a chance to survive each
and every time we interact with them.

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So I think that's really important.

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And of course, there are some studies
that don't, where the animals have

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to be sacrificed in certain areas.

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But by all means, I'd
love to hear from you.

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You can get ahold of
me through my socials.

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You can look in the show notes for that.

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You can sign up for my newsletter,
speakupforblue.com/newsletter.

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When you respond to that newsletter,
it goes right to me, so you

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have a direct access to me.

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And of course, if you really
wanna give me feedback, you can do

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so, speakupforblue.com/feedback.

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That's speakupforblue.com/feedback.

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Leave a voicemail, type a message,
whatever you'd like me to hear,

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I would love to hear from you.

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And I wanna thank you for joining
me on this episode of the How

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to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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I am your host, Andrew Lewin.

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Have a great day.

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We'll talk to you tomorrow,
and happy conservation.