June 19, 2026
The Ocean Is in Trouble, So Why Is This Report Hopeful?
The ocean is facing some of the biggest challenges in its history. Rising temperatures, marine heatwaves, coral bleaching, habitat loss, and overfishing continue to put pressure on marine ecosystems around the world. If you only follow the headlines, it can feel like ocean conservation is losing the battle.
But hidden within a recent United Nations ocean report is a surprising reason for optimism. While ocean health continues to decline in many areas, the systems designed to protect the ocean are getting stronger. Countries are expanding marine protected areas, improving international cooperation, deploying satellite monitoring technology, and developing new agreements to manage the ocean more effectively.
In this episode of How to Protect the Ocean, Andrew Lewin explores the difference between ocean health and ocean governance, and why that distinction matters. You’ll learn why conservation progress often feels slow, how stronger governance creates the foundation for long-term recovery, and why recognizing meaningful progress is essential if we want to stay motivated and continue protecting the ocean.
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Transcript
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If you only read the headlines about the
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ocean, you probably think
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using ocean protection is not
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doing well. Coral reefs are bleaching,
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the ocean is warming, fish
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populations are under pressure,
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sea levels are rising. So why does a
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major new United Nation
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report actually leave me feeling
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more hopeful than I have been in years?
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This is the How to Protect the Ocean
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podcast, your weekday
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ocean news update. If you care about
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staying informed on the
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ocean every weekday, Monday to
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Friday, hit that follow button right now
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on the podcast app that
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you're listening to so you don't
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miss next week's episode. Now, this week,
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a new UN report painted a
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stark picture of the challenges
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facing the ocean. But buried inside that
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report was something we
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don't hear much about or often
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enough. While the ocean health continues
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to decline, we're about
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to hit a super El Nino,
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so who knows what's going to happen over
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the next year or so. Our ability to
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govern and protect it
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is actually improving. Today, I want to
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talk about why both of those statements
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can be true at the same time and why that
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distinction matters.
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Let's start with reality. The ocean is
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under tremendous pressure, like a lot of
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pressure. The UN's latest assessment
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doesn't sugarcoat that fact.
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Ocean temperature continues to rise,
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marine heat waves are becoming more
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common. Like I said, we're
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about to enter a super El Nino.
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Sea levels are rising faster than they
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were just a few decades ago. Coral reefs
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continue to experience mass bleaching
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events and many fish populations face
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ongoing pressures from overfishing
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habitat loss and climate change.
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And if you've listened to this podcast
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for a while, none of that is new to you
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because we've covered all these stories
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before. You've heard me talk about the
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reefs. You heard me talk about fisheries.
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You've heard me talk
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about climate change.
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The science is clear. The ocean is
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changing. We know that for a fact.
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Whether we like it or not, it's changing.
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I think a lot of the stories that I've
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covered, you know, deep sea mining, the
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high seas, pilot whales, no pollution and
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just this episode this week.
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And then, of course, discovering the
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Mediterranean Great White Shark that was
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happening on Monday, that was really
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cool. But there's still some stuff that
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we see that every day,
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you know, the rollbacks like just the
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other day or just this last week, you
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know, during Oceans Week of all weeks, we
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saw rollbacks of a lot of marine
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sanctuaries in the US.
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We saw industry allowed to fish. So
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they're going to overfish, of course, not
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going to be managed properly. We see an
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administration in the US and elsewhere
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who are just even in
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Canada who are rolling back,
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rolling back environmental protections
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that are that that will slow down
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any type of natural resource development.
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And that's been a story like since the
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beginning of time where we're seeing all
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these environmental regulations slow down
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economic opportunities.
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And I just got into a debate on a guy
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with a guy in TikTok being like, hey, we
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have to take care of the economy. We have
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to take care of the health of people.
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And I plainly remind them, like, well, if
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you want to take care of the health of
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people, you have to take care of the
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health of the planet.
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Because like there's there's a reason why
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we are seeing like here in the southern
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Ontario, we're seeing areas where you
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have the highest number of people with
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allergies, you know,
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and breathing problems.
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You know, I wonder why we live right
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beside Hamilton Harbor, which at one
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point was responsible for 11% of the
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greenhouse gases that were emitted, you
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know, in southern in the country.
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And no, all the other stuff that goes
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with it, not just about greenhouse gases,
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but all the other stuff, the pollutants
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and stuff that comes with that.
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You know, there's a reason why we
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continue to do this.
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If we want the health of the people to
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improve, we have to improve the health of
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the planet, whether it be
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oceans, freshwater or land.
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That's really what it
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comes down to, you know.
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But, you know, like sometimes, like, you
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know, when you cover ocean every day, it
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can feel like challenges keep piling up.
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I had a recent, you know, person who
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commented on Spotify, which is great,
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comment on Spotify as much as possible.
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I love this, this,
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this topic that she has.
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She said, hey, you know, like I can't
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listen to five days a week because some
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of these topics are heavy and I can't
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listen to them every day.
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Totally understandable.
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Total. I totally get it.
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I don't expect people to listen to five
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times a day or five times a week, you
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know, so I won a day
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pretty much for the weekday.
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But, you know, we do provide the news and
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sometimes it's a little
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light, sometimes a little heavy.
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It just that's just the way it is.
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So I understand the feeling
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of like, hey, you know what?
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People will feel like it's pile up.
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I get it.
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I share honestly.
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Right.
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Like that's what I do.
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You know, but there there have definitely
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been moments over the past few years when
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I've wondered whether
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we're moving fast enough.
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I even said it, you know, I think that's
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something, you know, the audience
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appreciates is what I'm honest with
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becoming without becoming pessimistic.
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You know, even though there are a lot of
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things that are going against the ocean,
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there's been a lot of improvement in
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international agreements and local
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action, regional provincial
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or state and national action.
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We started to see things slowly turn
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around, even though some
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things are getting worse.
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There's things that are happening that
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are really working, even though for the
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time being, like four or five years,
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things will slow down.
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We need to move faster.
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There's no doubt about that.
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But we're starting to see improvement in
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the types of policies that are enacted
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that are put that are put in place and
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that when they're actually
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followed, they actually work.
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But here's what caught my
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attention in this report.
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The story isn't only
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about what's getting worse.
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It's also about what's getting better.
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You know, now let's talk about something
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we rarely celebrate is governance.
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I know, like the word probably doesn't
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even get anybody excited.
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Definitely doesn't get me excited.
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But nobody hangs a poster
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of governance on their wall.
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Nobody plans a
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vacation around governance.
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But governance might be one of the most
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important conservation tools we have in
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that conservation toolbox because
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conservation doesn't happen just because
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science discovers a problem, right?
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Or discovers a trend, a negative trend.
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Right? The science and scientists will
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discover that negative trend, but it has
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to go into law to be able to, you know,
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enact that and to reverse that trend.
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Right?
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Happens when people create systems to
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solve them and it gets boring for sure.
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You know, there's nothing better than
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like tagging a shark or watching a video
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of somebody tagging a shark or or what,
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you know, observing from the air like
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marine mammals and stuff like that.
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Discovering icebergs and how they work
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and how they float and all that stuff.
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But the systems that you put into place
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to solve the problems.
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They're the boring part, but
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they're the effective part.
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Right? And that's where the UN report
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offers some encouraging news.
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Around the world, we've seen stronger
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ocean governance emerge.
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The high seas treaty is moving forward.
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Countries are expanding
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marine protected areas.
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Illegal fishing monitoring is improving.
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Satellite technology is improving
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enforcement, which is great.
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International
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cooperation is also improving.
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None of these things solve ocean problems
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overnight, but they matter because for
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decades, many ocean
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problems existed without means.
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Meaningful global
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systems to address them.
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Like even just I would say about 16 years
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ago, I was working as a contractor with
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the Department of Fisheries and Oceans
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and we were looking at ocean management
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and we were talking about how you put an
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NPA in the middle of the water, like just
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out of, you know, just off the continent
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shelf or within the
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continental shelf, but off the coast.
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You can't see it from land.
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You can't see how
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those people are coming in.
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Those boats are coming in and out.
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You can't see if someone's fishing there
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illegally or anything like that.
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You can put satellites, but that time,
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like 16 years ago, even then the
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satellites aren't coming up often enough
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and we're not getting enough pictures and
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we can't really tell.
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We can't use satellite alone to do that.
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Now we're able to get to that point.
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You know, we can use drones, we can use
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aircraft, we can use satellites or a
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combination of those to
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give us a better picture.
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Like those systems are
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now beginning to emerge.
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AI data is helping, AI data analysis is
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helping and just sort of
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like crunching all that data.
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But I guess the question for you is like,
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what does governance actually mean?
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Like, do you know what it means?
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I guess it's basically rules, agreements,
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any kind of enforcement,
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accountability, cooperation.
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It's not the stuff we hear about.
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00:08:07,250 --> 00:08:08,375
We hear about a lot of that illegal
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activity, but we never hear about the
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good things like the enforcement that
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happens to eliminate those agreements.
272
00:08:14,625 --> 00:08:17,333
Right? Or those that illegal illegal
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illegal legalities, I guess.
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00:08:18,791 --> 00:08:21,541
Right? We start to see those change.
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We start to see that like technology
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being able to catch people faster.
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Right. And I think
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00:08:27,500 --> 00:08:28,500
that's really important.
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One case in point, you know, fisheries,
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00:08:31,583 --> 00:08:33,916
when somebody is fishing illegally, they
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00:08:33,916 --> 00:08:35,375
come to a dock, they want to unload as
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00:08:35,375 --> 00:08:36,250
fast as possible, get
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00:08:36,250 --> 00:08:37,208
their money and then go.
284
00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:38,916
A lot of times they can do that by
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unloading either major ships.
286
00:08:40,833 --> 00:08:42,875
They can unload, not have
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00:08:42,875 --> 00:08:44,791
anything happen to them.
288
00:08:45,416 --> 00:08:47,000
Right. Until it's too
289
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:47,791
late, until they're gone.
290
00:08:48,500 --> 00:08:49,666
And then they start to realize that,
291
00:08:49,666 --> 00:08:50,833
wait, these fish are not coming for the
292
00:08:50,833 --> 00:08:51,416
right boat or we've been
293
00:08:51,416 --> 00:08:52,458
looking for this boat for a while.
294
00:08:52,458 --> 00:08:53,166
They come in and out of
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00:08:53,166 --> 00:08:54,791
ports, like almost like ghosts.
296
00:08:55,333 --> 00:08:58,500
But now with AI and machine learning,
297
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that data gets crushed a lot faster.
298
00:09:01,333 --> 00:09:03,583
So managers can actually enforce better.
299
00:09:03,875 --> 00:09:06,416
And the enforcement arm of the law can
300
00:09:06,416 --> 00:09:09,791
actually do their jobs faster.
301
00:09:10,708 --> 00:09:11,750
And we're seeing those ships.
302
00:09:11,750 --> 00:09:13,291
They can't come into port in those in
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00:09:13,291 --> 00:09:16,041
those areas because it's just this risk.
304
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:17,583
Right. So that's that's
305
00:09:17,583 --> 00:09:18,750
getting better and better.
306
00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:20,083
Now, it's just a matter of like rolling
307
00:09:20,083 --> 00:09:22,208
out that information and those that
308
00:09:22,208 --> 00:09:23,833
technology to a lot more people.
309
00:09:23,833 --> 00:09:24,791
And I don't know if that's happening.
310
00:09:24,791 --> 00:09:25,791
I hope that's happening. Right.
311
00:09:26,375 --> 00:09:28,041
But that's important. Right.
312
00:09:28,041 --> 00:09:29,208
And I think like, you know, when you when
313
00:09:29,208 --> 00:09:30,875
you it's like you're comparing, like,
314
00:09:31,166 --> 00:09:31,791
when I compare like
315
00:09:31,791 --> 00:09:33,041
governance, like traffic laws.
316
00:09:33,583 --> 00:09:35,625
You know, if people are speeding too much
317
00:09:35,625 --> 00:09:37,166
or that becomes a problem and there's
318
00:09:37,166 --> 00:09:38,541
some accidents because of it.
319
00:09:39,125 --> 00:09:40,500
Well, then they, you know, there's more
320
00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:43,000
enforcement on on speeding or they they
321
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,333
make more strict laws and people have to,
322
00:09:46,333 --> 00:09:48,250
you know, go with those laws and they
323
00:09:48,250 --> 00:09:49,125
have to abide by those
324
00:09:49,125 --> 00:09:49,958
laws and there's enforcement.
325
00:09:50,208 --> 00:09:52,458
Right. Cars don't become safer because we
326
00:09:52,458 --> 00:09:54,250
hope people drive responsibly.
327
00:09:55,083 --> 00:09:56,875
They become safer because we create rules
328
00:09:56,875 --> 00:09:58,000
and force those rules and
329
00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,750
improve the system over time.
330
00:09:59,791 --> 00:10:01,291
Like people hate his seat
331
00:10:01,291 --> 00:10:02,458
belts when they first came up.
332
00:10:02,458 --> 00:10:04,500
But as cars started to drive faster and
333
00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:05,958
people started to get into accidents,
334
00:10:06,708 --> 00:10:07,583
yes, seatbelt would save
335
00:10:07,583 --> 00:10:09,000
lives, still does save lives.
336
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,583
Now we don't even think about it.
337
00:10:11,083 --> 00:10:12,291
You know, that's usually not a problem.
338
00:10:12,291 --> 00:10:13,666
It's very rare where that's a problem.
339
00:10:14,541 --> 00:10:15,458
Right. The same principle
340
00:10:15,458 --> 00:10:16,666
applies to ocean management.
341
00:10:17,875 --> 00:10:19,500
You know, I think I think when we when we
342
00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:20,916
start to look at things and how things
343
00:10:20,916 --> 00:10:21,916
are done, the more we
344
00:10:21,916 --> 00:10:23,083
can enforce, the better.
345
00:10:23,333 --> 00:10:24,916
Here's just a matter of can we get out to
346
00:10:24,916 --> 00:10:26,000
the people who are doing illegal
347
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,416
activities and kept them in the act?
348
00:10:28,166 --> 00:10:29,875
And then when we do the enforcement, can
349
00:10:29,875 --> 00:10:31,458
we like, are the there's
350
00:10:31,458 --> 00:10:33,083
the punishment fit the crime?
351
00:10:33,375 --> 00:10:34,541
Because sometimes the punishment doesn't
352
00:10:34,541 --> 00:10:35,541
fit the crime in the past.
353
00:10:36,083 --> 00:10:37,166
Right. Or even now, I'm sure.
354
00:10:37,958 --> 00:10:39,541
Right. So I think that there's a lot of
355
00:10:39,541 --> 00:10:40,791
things that have changed over that.
356
00:10:41,458 --> 00:10:43,333
You know, when I started my career, I
357
00:10:43,333 --> 00:10:44,375
think like I focus
358
00:10:44,375 --> 00:10:45,916
mostly on like the science.
359
00:10:46,750 --> 00:10:47,083
You know, I didn't
360
00:10:47,083 --> 00:10:48,666
really know about policy.
361
00:10:48,666 --> 00:10:49,458
It didn't interest me
362
00:10:49,458 --> 00:10:50,333
at any point in time.
363
00:10:50,833 --> 00:10:52,416
But it's something that I was like, as I
364
00:10:52,416 --> 00:10:55,500
started to mature within and evolve
365
00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:58,208
within the career, my career and within
366
00:10:58,208 --> 00:11:00,083
ocean science and conservation, I
367
00:11:00,083 --> 00:11:00,833
realized that's why I
368
00:11:00,833 --> 00:11:01,500
can an important part.
369
00:11:01,875 --> 00:11:02,916
Same with science communication.
370
00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:04,291
Just as important.
371
00:11:05,125 --> 00:11:06,625
Getting the information out there on the
372
00:11:06,625 --> 00:11:08,000
negative trends, but also what's been
373
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,041
working helps because it gives people
374
00:11:10,041 --> 00:11:11,416
hope that things can change.
375
00:11:12,583 --> 00:11:14,583
You know, by telling people that the
376
00:11:14,583 --> 00:11:16,958
Magnuson-Stevenson's Act and the
377
00:11:16,958 --> 00:11:18,500
Endangered Species Act have helped and
378
00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:18,916
the Marine Mountain
379
00:11:18,916 --> 00:11:20,000
Protection Act have helped.
380
00:11:20,250 --> 00:11:23,208
Great white sharks become bigger, like
381
00:11:23,208 --> 00:11:25,291
stronger, basically, and more distributed
382
00:11:25,291 --> 00:11:28,333
and bigger population has helped because
383
00:11:28,333 --> 00:11:29,375
of those policies that
384
00:11:29,375 --> 00:11:30,750
brings hope to people.
385
00:11:31,541 --> 00:11:31,583
Right.
386
00:11:32,750 --> 00:11:34,416
Sea lions increase because they weren't
387
00:11:34,416 --> 00:11:35,291
allowed to be hunted.
388
00:11:35,708 --> 00:11:36,833
They weren't allowed to be harassed.
389
00:11:37,291 --> 00:11:39,125
Magnuson-Stevenson's Act gave them the
390
00:11:39,125 --> 00:11:40,416
fish that they needed so the sea lions
391
00:11:40,416 --> 00:11:43,458
can increase in size and number as well
392
00:11:43,458 --> 00:11:44,166
as the great white sharks
393
00:11:44,166 --> 00:11:45,208
because that's what they eat.
394
00:11:45,875 --> 00:11:45,958
Right.
395
00:11:45,958 --> 00:11:48,125
It's all connected and we were able to
396
00:11:48,125 --> 00:11:50,291
help that and have a great conservation
397
00:11:50,291 --> 00:11:52,458
success story because of
398
00:11:52,458 --> 00:11:53,958
that policy and that governance.
399
00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:55,625
I just want to remind people, if you're
400
00:11:55,625 --> 00:11:57,916
getting value from this quick ocean news
401
00:11:57,916 --> 00:11:59,208
update or these quick ocean news update
402
00:11:59,208 --> 00:12:01,375
Monday to Friday, please follow the show.
403
00:12:01,875 --> 00:12:03,291
So you never miss another episode on your
404
00:12:03,291 --> 00:12:04,166
favorite podcast app.
405
00:12:04,791 --> 00:12:06,208
I personally, I usually listen to
406
00:12:06,208 --> 00:12:08,833
podcasts on either YouTube.
407
00:12:08,833 --> 00:12:10,250
I know they're not technically podcasts,
408
00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:13,125
but also I'll listen to Apple podcasts
409
00:12:13,125 --> 00:12:14,875
and Spotify every once in a while.
410
00:12:14,916 --> 00:12:15,958
I mix all over the place.
411
00:12:15,958 --> 00:12:17,625
So follow me on all those if you want so
412
00:12:17,625 --> 00:12:19,375
that you can always get updates whenever
413
00:12:19,375 --> 00:12:20,916
we put out episodes.
414
00:12:20,916 --> 00:12:22,416
I think it's important, but follow it
415
00:12:22,416 --> 00:12:24,041
helps other people discover the podcast
416
00:12:24,041 --> 00:12:25,416
as well as well as keep
417
00:12:25,416 --> 00:12:26,875
you in for the subscription.
418
00:12:27,166 --> 00:12:27,916
So that really helps.
419
00:12:28,416 --> 00:12:29,208
So sometimes progress
420
00:12:29,208 --> 00:12:30,416
doesn't feel like progress.
421
00:12:30,416 --> 00:12:32,250
Like one reason people feel discouraged
422
00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:34,541
about the ocean is because ecological
423
00:12:34,541 --> 00:12:37,000
recovery takes time like a long time.
424
00:12:37,500 --> 00:12:38,583
You know, let's say a government creates
425
00:12:38,583 --> 00:12:39,875
a marine protected area today.
426
00:12:40,041 --> 00:12:40,958
Fish populations don't
427
00:12:40,958 --> 00:12:42,083
imagine you recover tomorrow.
428
00:12:42,458 --> 00:12:43,541
It's not a one day process.
429
00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:45,666
Coral reefs take a lot of time.
430
00:12:45,666 --> 00:12:46,875
They don't immediately bounce back.
431
00:12:47,041 --> 00:12:49,000
Ecosystems are not going to just
432
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,833
instantly heal at a snap of the fingers.
433
00:12:53,083 --> 00:12:54,666
Nature works over longer timelines,
434
00:12:55,125 --> 00:12:56,208
longer than politics.
435
00:12:57,166 --> 00:12:58,333
Right. That's why sometimes politicians
436
00:12:58,333 --> 00:12:59,875
don't like to make these big, big
437
00:12:59,875 --> 00:13:01,833
promises and commitments
438
00:13:01,833 --> 00:13:03,541
over longer than their tenure.
439
00:13:04,750 --> 00:13:07,625
Longer times than even social media, you
440
00:13:07,625 --> 00:13:09,708
know, longer times than news cycles.
441
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:10,833
Although I going back to the social
442
00:13:10,833 --> 00:13:14,125
media, like this is a perfect opportunity
443
00:13:14,125 --> 00:13:16,666
for you science communicators to create
444
00:13:16,666 --> 00:13:18,500
like journey type of content.
445
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,083
Like follow me while we watch the ups and
446
00:13:21,083 --> 00:13:23,375
downs of trying to bring this coral reef
447
00:13:23,375 --> 00:13:26,125
back or this mangrove back as we see
448
00:13:26,125 --> 00:13:27,708
plantings and ice as the
449
00:13:27,708 --> 00:13:30,166
cuttings and restoration happen.
450
00:13:30,625 --> 00:13:32,291
And, you know, we'll talk about grants
451
00:13:32,291 --> 00:13:33,541
and how sometimes we get them.
452
00:13:33,541 --> 00:13:35,416
Sometimes we don't are donors that help
453
00:13:35,416 --> 00:13:37,875
in because they follow this great
454
00:13:37,875 --> 00:13:38,916
opportunity, especially
455
00:13:38,916 --> 00:13:39,708
with these longer times.
456
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:40,666
And we don't have time
457
00:13:40,666 --> 00:13:42,125
lines say, hey, you know what?
458
00:13:42,125 --> 00:13:44,000
We're actually following this for long
459
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,333
terms and people on social media can
460
00:13:45,333 --> 00:13:46,583
follow you during that time.
461
00:13:47,083 --> 00:13:48,000
That's really important.
462
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:50,166
So these long timelines, you know,
463
00:13:50,166 --> 00:13:51,458
they're longer than the new cycles.
464
00:13:51,458 --> 00:13:52,333
We know news doesn't
465
00:13:52,333 --> 00:13:53,541
like to cover it too often.
466
00:13:53,708 --> 00:13:55,833
They just like the quick clicks because
467
00:13:55,833 --> 00:13:56,208
that's where they
468
00:13:56,208 --> 00:13:57,125
make most of their money.
469
00:13:58,041 --> 00:13:58,833
This one reason why
470
00:13:58,833 --> 00:14:00,291
conservation can feel frustrating.
471
00:14:01,041 --> 00:14:02,666
We often don't.
472
00:14:02,666 --> 00:14:04,208
We often see the damage immediately.
473
00:14:04,416 --> 00:14:05,291
So I can say that again.
474
00:14:05,666 --> 00:14:07,500
We often see the damage immediately, but
475
00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:09,000
recovery happens slowly.
476
00:14:09,875 --> 00:14:10,916
Sometimes over a year,
477
00:14:10,916 --> 00:14:11,750
sometimes over decades.
478
00:14:12,708 --> 00:14:15,041
The U.N. report that that really inspired
479
00:14:15,041 --> 00:14:15,708
me to do this episode
480
00:14:15,708 --> 00:14:17,000
highlights this challenge.
481
00:14:17,541 --> 00:14:18,750
We're improving governance, but the
482
00:14:18,750 --> 00:14:19,708
ecological benefits
483
00:14:19,708 --> 00:14:21,666
may take time to appear.
484
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,333
And to be honest, that's OK.
485
00:14:24,083 --> 00:14:25,875
A slow recovery is a good recovery
486
00:14:25,875 --> 00:14:27,916
because conservation has
487
00:14:27,916 --> 00:14:30,250
always been the long game.
488
00:14:30,958 --> 00:14:33,416
Always. You know, when we start to see
489
00:14:33,416 --> 00:14:35,208
like fishery rebuilds,
490
00:14:35,208 --> 00:14:35,708
it takes a long time.
491
00:14:35,708 --> 00:14:38,500
Like even the the the cod of the North
492
00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:41,958
Atlantic, we have seen rebuild over, you
493
00:14:41,958 --> 00:14:44,333
know, 30 years, over 30 years.
494
00:14:44,333 --> 00:14:46,416
It's still not to where we can really
495
00:14:46,416 --> 00:14:49,375
fish comfortably, even though they're
496
00:14:49,375 --> 00:14:51,208
expanding the fisheries in Canada, which
497
00:14:51,208 --> 00:14:53,000
is a big mistake, in my opinion.
498
00:14:53,791 --> 00:14:55,375
But we're starting to see that rebuild,
499
00:14:55,375 --> 00:14:56,541
but it's slow, depending on
500
00:14:56,541 --> 00:14:59,666
how bad the population was.
501
00:14:59,875 --> 00:15:00,708
We're starting to see that slow recovery.
502
00:15:00,750 --> 00:15:03,500
You know, recovery of whale populations
503
00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:04,916
can sometimes be a little quicker,
504
00:15:04,916 --> 00:15:08,375
depending if you can create the the
505
00:15:08,375 --> 00:15:11,625
environments where these long lived
506
00:15:11,625 --> 00:15:15,250
animals can actually reproduce and
507
00:15:15,250 --> 00:15:17,291
without having their young killed or
508
00:15:17,291 --> 00:15:18,958
dying for whatever reason.
509
00:15:19,708 --> 00:15:20,958
We can see a better
510
00:15:20,958 --> 00:15:21,708
recovery, but it takes time.
511
00:15:21,791 --> 00:15:24,166
You know, some of these whale
512
00:15:24,166 --> 00:15:26,875
populations, they'll have one, maybe two
513
00:15:26,875 --> 00:15:29,125
calves in their entire lives, like for
514
00:15:29,125 --> 00:15:30,666
per individual, sometimes
515
00:15:30,666 --> 00:15:32,208
more depending on their health.
516
00:15:32,791 --> 00:15:34,791
Right. So making a healthy population is
517
00:15:34,791 --> 00:15:37,083
going to take time protected areas.
518
00:15:37,083 --> 00:15:37,916
You know, they show the
519
00:15:37,916 --> 00:15:39,583
benefits years after creation.
520
00:15:39,916 --> 00:15:40,875
A lot of times we have to find
521
00:15:40,875 --> 00:15:43,083
alternative livelihoods for what we put
522
00:15:43,083 --> 00:15:44,666
in a marine protected area for fisheries
523
00:15:44,666 --> 00:15:46,083
for the fishing community,
524
00:15:46,083 --> 00:15:47,708
because that's what happens.
525
00:15:48,291 --> 00:15:49,000
Right. Because like it
526
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:49,708
takes time to recover.
527
00:15:49,708 --> 00:15:53,583
Like what would happen if we got if we
528
00:15:53,583 --> 00:15:55,416
just fitness after one trip to the gym,
529
00:15:55,416 --> 00:15:57,333
like, let's be honest, like, anytime I
530
00:15:57,333 --> 00:16:00,000
start to lose weight, I look at the scale
531
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,541
and I'm like, if I'm going to die, I'm
532
00:16:01,541 --> 00:16:02,500
like, I'm looking at the scale.
533
00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:05,166
I'm like, okay, I lost like three pounds,
534
00:16:05,166 --> 00:16:07,291
which is probably water weight, but then
535
00:16:07,291 --> 00:16:10,125
I'll have like reward myself the next day
536
00:16:10,125 --> 00:16:11,750
and I'll have like a slice of pizza or
537
00:16:11,750 --> 00:16:12,708
two or three or four.
538
00:16:12,708 --> 00:16:15,250
And then I go back to higher than what I
539
00:16:15,250 --> 00:16:17,458
was. You're not going to see that
540
00:16:17,458 --> 00:16:18,625
overnight success. You're not going to
541
00:16:18,625 --> 00:16:20,541
lose 20 to 30 pounds or whatever you want
542
00:16:20,541 --> 00:16:22,458
to use lose overnight.
543
00:16:23,041 --> 00:16:24,958
Right. That's going to be a long term
544
00:16:24,958 --> 00:16:27,583
thing. You know, just like it took a long
545
00:16:27,583 --> 00:16:29,000
time to gain the weight, it's going to
546
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,208
take a long time to lose the
547
00:16:30,208 --> 00:16:31,708
weight in a healthy manner.
548
00:16:32,708 --> 00:16:34,875
Some you might see some progress over
549
00:16:34,875 --> 00:16:36,916
time that does a little faster, but
550
00:16:36,916 --> 00:16:38,166
that's because of the work that you put
551
00:16:38,166 --> 00:16:40,250
in. We might see some ebbs and flows with
552
00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:42,083
conservation recovery and restoration.
553
00:16:43,125 --> 00:16:45,916
But, you know, it's not going to be much,
554
00:16:45,916 --> 00:16:48,750
you know, time a year over year because
555
00:16:48,750 --> 00:16:50,666
meaningful change takes time,
556
00:16:51,416 --> 00:16:51,708
especially sustainable change.
557
00:16:51,750 --> 00:16:55,083
Right. The same is true for ecosystems,
558
00:16:55,416 --> 00:16:56,833
you know, just like losing weight could
559
00:16:56,833 --> 00:16:58,458
take a long time, like one to two pounds
560
00:16:58,458 --> 00:17:00,666
a week. That takes a long time over time
561
00:17:00,666 --> 00:17:02,916
to lose that 20, 30 pounds. That's
562
00:17:02,916 --> 00:17:03,958
personally what I want to lose.
563
00:17:04,958 --> 00:17:06,791
You know, but you know, the same thing
564
00:17:06,791 --> 00:17:09,208
goes with building a coral reef,
565
00:17:09,208 --> 00:17:11,041
rebuilding. They're very slow growing
566
00:17:11,041 --> 00:17:13,000
organisms and it takes time
567
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,708
to grow that skeleton. Right.
568
00:17:15,416 --> 00:17:17,333
And it takes time to make sure that all
569
00:17:17,333 --> 00:17:19,791
the ingredients to help them grow are
570
00:17:19,791 --> 00:17:20,916
there and they're healthy
571
00:17:20,916 --> 00:17:23,041
and they're available. Right.
572
00:17:23,875 --> 00:17:25,166
I mean, if you like, if you look at all
573
00:17:25,166 --> 00:17:26,541
the episodes that we put this that we
574
00:17:26,541 --> 00:17:27,958
have this week, there's like ups and
575
00:17:27,958 --> 00:17:28,541
downs and everything
576
00:17:28,541 --> 00:17:29,500
that we talked about.
577
00:17:30,125 --> 00:17:31,500
And we start to see some progress with
578
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:33,500
the way people are putting in their
579
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:35,166
managing and then we start to see other
580
00:17:35,166 --> 00:17:37,500
things happen. You know, we're seeing
581
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:38,958
like, hey, we saw great white in the
582
00:17:38,958 --> 00:17:41,583
Mediterranean, you know, pilot whales
583
00:17:41,583 --> 00:17:43,333
that are can't hear each other because
584
00:17:43,333 --> 00:17:44,250
there's so much shipping.
585
00:17:44,708 --> 00:17:46,833
You know, all these things take time to
586
00:17:46,833 --> 00:17:49,083
develop and take time to detect and take
587
00:17:49,083 --> 00:17:52,166
time to put into law. You know, one thing
588
00:17:52,166 --> 00:17:54,666
I could I could tell you, I remember I
589
00:17:54,666 --> 00:17:56,166
think I've told the story before, but
590
00:17:56,166 --> 00:17:57,958
when I was working for fisheries and
591
00:17:57,958 --> 00:18:01,041
oceans in like 2012, 2013, the
592
00:18:01,041 --> 00:18:02,875
conservative Harper government came in
593
00:18:02,875 --> 00:18:05,041
government and he was Prime Minister
594
00:18:05,041 --> 00:18:07,875
Harper and they removed a lot of like,
595
00:18:07,875 --> 00:18:09,416
they removed the fisheries habitat
596
00:18:09,416 --> 00:18:11,375
section, like the protecting habitat in
597
00:18:11,375 --> 00:18:12,708
the fisheries act out of the fisheries act.
598
00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:15,083
They just took it out and they said, oh,
599
00:18:15,083 --> 00:18:15,875
we're just going to manage like
600
00:18:15,875 --> 00:18:17,666
commercially indigenous and
601
00:18:17,666 --> 00:18:19,666
recreationally important species for
602
00:18:19,666 --> 00:18:21,291
fisheries. We're not going to worry about
603
00:18:21,291 --> 00:18:22,791
their habitats because that doesn't
604
00:18:22,791 --> 00:18:24,583
matter. Apparently, which it does.
605
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:27,541
And so when they took it out after they
606
00:18:27,541 --> 00:18:30,291
got a like basically when when the
607
00:18:30,291 --> 00:18:32,333
Trudeau government came in, it took them
608
00:18:32,333 --> 00:18:34,833
like five years to re implement the
609
00:18:34,833 --> 00:18:36,125
fisheries act the way it was. They made a
610
00:18:36,125 --> 00:18:37,375
little stronger, but they had to go
611
00:18:37,375 --> 00:18:37,708
through consultation.
612
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:40,416
They had to do a bunch of readings and
613
00:18:40,416 --> 00:18:41,625
they had to put it back in. They had to
614
00:18:41,625 --> 00:18:42,666
go through testing that to go through
615
00:18:42,666 --> 00:18:44,541
debate and all that kind of stuff. It
616
00:18:44,541 --> 00:18:46,958
takes time. Government takes time, but it
617
00:18:46,958 --> 00:18:50,458
got better and hopefully changes will be
618
00:18:50,458 --> 00:18:52,666
harder to make, especially when you roll
619
00:18:52,666 --> 00:18:54,291
those back. We'll see how that works.
620
00:18:55,583 --> 00:18:56,500
You know, but like this week, we've
621
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:57,583
talked about great whites. We talked
622
00:18:57,583 --> 00:18:59,208
about fishing regulations, pilot whales,
623
00:18:59,208 --> 00:19:00,666
indigenous ownership. We talked a lot a
624
00:19:00,666 --> 00:19:05,000
lot that all has taken time. Right? Like
625
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,708
all of it has taken time.
626
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:08,958
And to be honest, that's why this report
627
00:19:08,958 --> 00:19:11,250
felt like left me with a little like
628
00:19:11,250 --> 00:19:14,166
cautiously optimistic. You know, the
629
00:19:14,166 --> 00:19:16,500
ocean is facing huge challenges, but the
630
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:18,375
science is clear about that. We know that
631
00:19:18,375 --> 00:19:20,291
they're facing challenges. But for the
632
00:19:20,291 --> 00:19:21,458
first time in a long time, we're also
633
00:19:21,458 --> 00:19:23,541
seeing stronger systems, better
634
00:19:23,541 --> 00:19:25,208
cooperation and more tools
635
00:19:25,208 --> 00:19:26,708
to address those challenges.
636
00:19:26,708 --> 00:19:30,000
And even though we're not nearly where we
637
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,791
need to be, you know, the ocean story is
638
00:19:32,791 --> 00:19:35,375
still a crisis story. We know that, but
639
00:19:35,375 --> 00:19:37,250
it's also becoming a governance story.
640
00:19:38,375 --> 00:19:41,041
And that's one reason I believe the
641
00:19:41,041 --> 00:19:43,375
future can be better than many people
642
00:19:43,375 --> 00:19:44,541
expect. Now it's just a matter of
643
00:19:44,541 --> 00:19:45,458
implementing those and
644
00:19:45,458 --> 00:19:46,708
making sure we follow those.
645
00:19:47,833 --> 00:19:49,541
And speaking of follow, if you haven't
646
00:19:49,541 --> 00:19:51,041
followed this podcast yet, please do.
647
00:19:51,375 --> 00:19:53,250
You'll get access to all of our ocean
648
00:19:53,250 --> 00:19:55,416
weekday updates. And I think that's
649
00:19:55,416 --> 00:19:57,208
important to learn how to protect the
650
00:19:57,208 --> 00:19:58,791
ocean. That's what we do this podcast.
651
00:19:58,791 --> 00:20:00,000
That's why I named it that way.
652
00:20:00,458 --> 00:20:02,333
All right. But that's it for today's
653
00:20:02,333 --> 00:20:04,125
episode. If you want to get ahold of me,
654
00:20:04,125 --> 00:20:05,666
you can just go in the show notes. You
655
00:20:05,666 --> 00:20:07,250
can DM me on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook,
656
00:20:07,458 --> 00:20:09,208
whatever you'd like to do. But I want to
657
00:20:09,208 --> 00:20:10,791
thank you again for joining me on today's
658
00:20:10,791 --> 00:20:11,791
episode of the How to
659
00:20:11,791 --> 00:20:12,708
Protect the Ocean podcast.
660
00:20:12,750 --> 00:20:14,833
I'm your host, Andrew. Have a great day.
661
00:20:14,833 --> 00:20:16,041
Have a great weekend. We'll talk to you
662
00:20:16,041 --> 00:20:17,583
on Monday and happy conservation.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,875
If you only read the headlines about the
2
00:00:01,875 --> 00:00:03,000
ocean, you probably think
3
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,250
using ocean protection is not
4
00:00:05,250 --> 00:00:07,875
doing well. Coral reefs are bleaching,
5
00:00:08,083 --> 00:00:09,750
the ocean is warming, fish
6
00:00:09,750 --> 00:00:11,333
populations are under pressure,
7
00:00:11,333 --> 00:00:14,208
sea levels are rising. So why does a
8
00:00:14,208 --> 00:00:15,750
major new United Nation
9
00:00:15,750 --> 00:00:17,458
report actually leave me feeling
10
00:00:17,500 --> 00:00:20,000
more hopeful than I have been in years?
11
00:00:20,541 --> 00:00:21,625
This is the How to Protect the Ocean
12
00:00:21,625 --> 00:00:22,666
podcast, your weekday
13
00:00:22,666 --> 00:00:24,541
ocean news update. If you care about
14
00:00:24,541 --> 00:00:26,041
staying informed on the
15
00:00:26,041 --> 00:00:28,541
ocean every weekday, Monday to
16
00:00:28,583 --> 00:00:30,625
Friday, hit that follow button right now
17
00:00:30,625 --> 00:00:31,791
on the podcast app that
18
00:00:31,791 --> 00:00:33,208
you're listening to so you don't
19
00:00:33,208 --> 00:00:37,291
miss next week's episode. Now, this week,
20
00:00:37,291 --> 00:00:38,833
a new UN report painted a
21
00:00:38,833 --> 00:00:40,375
stark picture of the challenges
22
00:00:40,500 --> 00:00:43,416
facing the ocean. But buried inside that
23
00:00:43,416 --> 00:00:44,458
report was something we
24
00:00:44,458 --> 00:00:47,041
don't hear much about or often
25
00:00:47,125 --> 00:00:49,458
enough. While the ocean health continues
26
00:00:49,458 --> 00:00:50,916
to decline, we're about
27
00:00:50,916 --> 00:00:52,375
to hit a super El Nino,
28
00:00:52,375 --> 00:00:53,916
so who knows what's going to happen over
29
00:00:53,916 --> 00:00:56,083
the next year or so. Our ability to
30
00:00:56,083 --> 00:00:57,166
govern and protect it
31
00:00:57,208 --> 00:00:59,541
is actually improving. Today, I want to
32
00:00:59,541 --> 00:01:01,291
talk about why both of those statements
33
00:01:01,291 --> 00:01:03,625
can be true at the same time and why that
34
00:01:03,625 --> 00:01:04,958
distinction matters.
35
00:01:05,791 --> 00:01:08,666
Let's start with reality. The ocean is
36
00:01:08,666 --> 00:01:11,666
under tremendous pressure, like a lot of
37
00:01:11,666 --> 00:01:14,041
pressure. The UN's latest assessment
38
00:01:14,041 --> 00:01:15,541
doesn't sugarcoat that fact.
39
00:01:16,125 --> 00:01:17,500
Ocean temperature continues to rise,
40
00:01:17,875 --> 00:01:19,166
marine heat waves are becoming more
41
00:01:19,166 --> 00:01:20,083
common. Like I said, we're
42
00:01:20,083 --> 00:01:22,000
about to enter a super El Nino.
43
00:01:22,333 --> 00:01:24,291
Sea levels are rising faster than they
44
00:01:24,291 --> 00:01:26,750
were just a few decades ago. Coral reefs
45
00:01:26,750 --> 00:01:29,083
continue to experience mass bleaching
46
00:01:29,083 --> 00:01:31,250
events and many fish populations face
47
00:01:31,250 --> 00:01:33,375
ongoing pressures from overfishing
48
00:01:33,375 --> 00:01:35,250
habitat loss and climate change.
49
00:01:35,750 --> 00:01:36,833
And if you've listened to this podcast
50
00:01:36,833 --> 00:01:38,875
for a while, none of that is new to you
51
00:01:38,875 --> 00:01:40,500
because we've covered all these stories
52
00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:42,166
before. You've heard me talk about the
53
00:01:42,166 --> 00:01:43,791
reefs. You heard me talk about fisheries.
54
00:01:43,791 --> 00:01:44,291
You've heard me talk
55
00:01:44,291 --> 00:01:45,083
about climate change.
56
00:01:45,125 --> 00:01:47,375
The science is clear. The ocean is
57
00:01:47,375 --> 00:01:49,500
changing. We know that for a fact.
58
00:01:49,791 --> 00:01:52,333
Whether we like it or not, it's changing.
59
00:01:53,458 --> 00:01:55,416
I think a lot of the stories that I've
60
00:01:55,416 --> 00:01:57,583
covered, you know, deep sea mining, the
61
00:01:57,583 --> 00:02:00,625
high seas, pilot whales, no pollution and
62
00:02:00,625 --> 00:02:02,166
just this episode this week.
63
00:02:02,625 --> 00:02:04,041
And then, of course, discovering the
64
00:02:04,041 --> 00:02:07,250
Mediterranean Great White Shark that was
65
00:02:07,250 --> 00:02:08,625
happening on Monday, that was really
66
00:02:08,625 --> 00:02:10,041
cool. But there's still some stuff that
67
00:02:10,041 --> 00:02:11,500
we see that every day,
68
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,416
you know, the rollbacks like just the
69
00:02:13,416 --> 00:02:15,750
other day or just this last week, you
70
00:02:15,750 --> 00:02:18,291
know, during Oceans Week of all weeks, we
71
00:02:18,291 --> 00:02:20,291
saw rollbacks of a lot of marine
72
00:02:20,291 --> 00:02:22,500
sanctuaries in the US.
73
00:02:22,875 --> 00:02:26,000
We saw industry allowed to fish. So
74
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,416
they're going to overfish, of course, not
75
00:02:27,416 --> 00:02:29,041
going to be managed properly. We see an
76
00:02:29,041 --> 00:02:30,875
administration in the US and elsewhere
77
00:02:30,875 --> 00:02:32,166
who are just even in
78
00:02:32,166 --> 00:02:34,416
Canada who are rolling back,
79
00:02:35,041 --> 00:02:36,791
rolling back environmental protections
80
00:02:36,791 --> 00:02:40,875
that are that that will slow down
81
00:02:41,541 --> 00:02:44,500
any type of natural resource development.
82
00:02:45,125 --> 00:02:47,750
And that's been a story like since the
83
00:02:47,750 --> 00:02:50,000
beginning of time where we're seeing all
84
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,291
these environmental regulations slow down
85
00:02:53,291 --> 00:02:54,750
economic opportunities.
86
00:02:54,750 --> 00:02:56,416
And I just got into a debate on a guy
87
00:02:56,416 --> 00:02:58,750
with a guy in TikTok being like, hey, we
88
00:02:58,750 --> 00:03:00,166
have to take care of the economy. We have
89
00:03:00,166 --> 00:03:01,875
to take care of the health of people.
90
00:03:02,416 --> 00:03:04,208
And I plainly remind them, like, well, if
91
00:03:04,208 --> 00:03:05,083
you want to take care of the health of
92
00:03:05,083 --> 00:03:06,166
people, you have to take care of the
93
00:03:06,166 --> 00:03:06,875
health of the planet.
94
00:03:07,833 --> 00:03:09,583
Because like there's there's a reason why
95
00:03:09,583 --> 00:03:11,500
we are seeing like here in the southern
96
00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:13,416
Ontario, we're seeing areas where you
97
00:03:13,416 --> 00:03:15,625
have the highest number of people with
98
00:03:15,625 --> 00:03:17,375
allergies, you know,
99
00:03:17,375 --> 00:03:18,458
and breathing problems.
100
00:03:19,041 --> 00:03:20,416
You know, I wonder why we live right
101
00:03:20,416 --> 00:03:21,916
beside Hamilton Harbor, which at one
102
00:03:21,916 --> 00:03:24,375
point was responsible for 11% of the
103
00:03:24,375 --> 00:03:26,666
greenhouse gases that were emitted, you
104
00:03:26,666 --> 00:03:28,625
know, in southern in the country.
105
00:03:29,541 --> 00:03:31,250
And no, all the other stuff that goes
106
00:03:31,250 --> 00:03:32,833
with it, not just about greenhouse gases,
107
00:03:32,833 --> 00:03:34,041
but all the other stuff, the pollutants
108
00:03:34,041 --> 00:03:35,083
and stuff that comes with that.
109
00:03:35,625 --> 00:03:37,041
You know, there's a reason why we
110
00:03:37,041 --> 00:03:38,000
continue to do this.
111
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,375
If we want the health of the people to
112
00:03:39,375 --> 00:03:41,250
improve, we have to improve the health of
113
00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:42,291
the planet, whether it be
114
00:03:42,291 --> 00:03:43,916
oceans, freshwater or land.
115
00:03:44,458 --> 00:03:45,041
That's really what it
116
00:03:45,041 --> 00:03:46,541
comes down to, you know.
117
00:03:47,458 --> 00:03:49,000
But, you know, like sometimes, like, you
118
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,041
know, when you cover ocean every day, it
119
00:03:51,041 --> 00:03:53,458
can feel like challenges keep piling up.
120
00:03:53,916 --> 00:03:56,583
I had a recent, you know, person who
121
00:03:56,583 --> 00:03:58,208
commented on Spotify, which is great,
122
00:03:58,208 --> 00:03:59,666
comment on Spotify as much as possible.
123
00:03:59,666 --> 00:04:00,541
I love this, this,
124
00:04:00,916 --> 00:04:02,625
this topic that she has.
125
00:04:02,625 --> 00:04:05,041
She said, hey, you know, like I can't
126
00:04:05,041 --> 00:04:06,458
listen to five days a week because some
127
00:04:06,458 --> 00:04:08,166
of these topics are heavy and I can't
128
00:04:08,166 --> 00:04:08,708
listen to them every day.
129
00:04:09,125 --> 00:04:09,958
Totally understandable.
130
00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:11,583
Total. I totally get it.
131
00:04:11,875 --> 00:04:13,291
I don't expect people to listen to five
132
00:04:13,291 --> 00:04:15,416
times a day or five times a week, you
133
00:04:15,416 --> 00:04:16,625
know, so I won a day
134
00:04:16,625 --> 00:04:17,375
pretty much for the weekday.
135
00:04:17,583 --> 00:04:20,166
But, you know, we do provide the news and
136
00:04:20,166 --> 00:04:20,875
sometimes it's a little
137
00:04:20,875 --> 00:04:22,250
light, sometimes a little heavy.
138
00:04:22,250 --> 00:04:23,166
It just that's just the way it is.
139
00:04:23,166 --> 00:04:24,500
So I understand the feeling
140
00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:25,500
of like, hey, you know what?
141
00:04:26,250 --> 00:04:28,875
People will feel like it's pile up.
142
00:04:28,875 --> 00:04:30,000
I get it.
143
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,666
I share honestly.
144
00:04:31,125 --> 00:04:31,375
Right.
145
00:04:31,541 --> 00:04:32,291
Like that's what I do.
146
00:04:33,250 --> 00:04:34,708
You know, but there there have definitely
147
00:04:34,708 --> 00:04:36,166
been moments over the past few years when
148
00:04:36,166 --> 00:04:37,000
I've wondered whether
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we're moving fast enough.
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I even said it, you know, I think that's
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something, you know, the audience
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appreciates is what I'm honest with
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becoming without becoming pessimistic.
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You know, even though there are a lot of
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things that are going against the ocean,
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there's been a lot of improvement in
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international agreements and local
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action, regional provincial
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or state and national action.
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We started to see things slowly turn
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around, even though some
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things are getting worse.
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There's things that are happening that
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are really working, even though for the
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time being, like four or five years,
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things will slow down.
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We need to move faster.
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There's no doubt about that.
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But we're starting to see improvement in
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the types of policies that are enacted
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that are put that are put in place and
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that when they're actually
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followed, they actually work.
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But here's what caught my
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attention in this report.
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The story isn't only
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about what's getting worse.
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It's also about what's getting better.
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You know, now let's talk about something
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we rarely celebrate is governance.
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I know, like the word probably doesn't
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even get anybody excited.
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Definitely doesn't get me excited.
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But nobody hangs a poster
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of governance on their wall.
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Nobody plans a
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vacation around governance.
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But governance might be one of the most
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important conservation tools we have in
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that conservation toolbox because
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conservation doesn't happen just because
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science discovers a problem, right?
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Or discovers a trend, a negative trend.
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Right? The science and scientists will
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discover that negative trend, but it has
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to go into law to be able to, you know,
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enact that and to reverse that trend.
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Right?
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Happens when people create systems to
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solve them and it gets boring for sure.
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You know, there's nothing better than
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like tagging a shark or watching a video
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of somebody tagging a shark or or what,
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you know, observing from the air like
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marine mammals and stuff like that.
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Discovering icebergs and how they work
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and how they float and all that stuff.
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But the systems that you put into place
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to solve the problems.
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They're the boring part, but
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they're the effective part.
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Right? And that's where the UN report
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offers some encouraging news.
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Around the world, we've seen stronger
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ocean governance emerge.
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The high seas treaty is moving forward.
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Countries are expanding
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marine protected areas.
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Illegal fishing monitoring is improving.
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Satellite technology is improving
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enforcement, which is great.
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International
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cooperation is also improving.
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None of these things solve ocean problems
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overnight, but they matter because for
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decades, many ocean
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problems existed without means.
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Meaningful global
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systems to address them.
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Like even just I would say about 16 years
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ago, I was working as a contractor with
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the Department of Fisheries and Oceans
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and we were looking at ocean management
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and we were talking about how you put an
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NPA in the middle of the water, like just
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out of, you know, just off the continent
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shelf or within the
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continental shelf, but off the coast.
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You can't see it from land.
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You can't see how
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those people are coming in.
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Those boats are coming in and out.
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You can't see if someone's fishing there
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illegally or anything like that.
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You can put satellites, but that time,
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like 16 years ago, even then the
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satellites aren't coming up often enough
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and we're not getting enough pictures and
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we can't really tell.
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We can't use satellite alone to do that.
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Now we're able to get to that point.
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You know, we can use drones, we can use
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aircraft, we can use satellites or a
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combination of those to
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give us a better picture.
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Like those systems are
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now beginning to emerge.
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AI data is helping, AI data analysis is
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helping and just sort of
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like crunching all that data.
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But I guess the question for you is like,
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what does governance actually mean?
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Like, do you know what it means?
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I guess it's basically rules, agreements,
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any kind of enforcement,
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accountability, cooperation.
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It's not the stuff we hear about.
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We hear about a lot of that illegal
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activity, but we never hear about the
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good things like the enforcement that
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happens to eliminate those agreements.
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Right? Or those that illegal illegal
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illegal legalities, I guess.
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Right? We start to see those change.
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We start to see that like technology
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being able to catch people faster.
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Right. And I think
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that's really important.
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One case in point, you know, fisheries,
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when somebody is fishing illegally, they
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come to a dock, they want to unload as
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fast as possible, get
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their money and then go.
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A lot of times they can do that by
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unloading either major ships.
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They can unload, not have
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anything happen to them.
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Right. Until it's too
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late, until they're gone.
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And then they start to realize that,
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wait, these fish are not coming for the
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right boat or we've been
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looking for this boat for a while.
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They come in and out of
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ports, like almost like ghosts.
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But now with AI and machine learning,
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that data gets crushed a lot faster.
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So managers can actually enforce better.
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And the enforcement arm of the law can
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actually do their jobs faster.
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And we're seeing those ships.
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They can't come into port in those in
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those areas because it's just this risk.
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Right. So that's that's
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getting better and better.
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Now, it's just a matter of like rolling
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out that information and those that
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technology to a lot more people.
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And I don't know if that's happening.
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I hope that's happening. Right.
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But that's important. Right.
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And I think like, you know, when you when
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you it's like you're comparing, like,
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when I compare like
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governance, like traffic laws.
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You know, if people are speeding too much
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or that becomes a problem and there's
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some accidents because of it.
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Well, then they, you know, there's more
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enforcement on on speeding or they they
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make more strict laws and people have to,
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you know, go with those laws and they
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have to abide by those
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laws and there's enforcement.
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Right. Cars don't become safer because we
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hope people drive responsibly.
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They become safer because we create rules
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and force those rules and
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improve the system over time.
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Like people hate his seat
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belts when they first came up.
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But as cars started to drive faster and
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people started to get into accidents,
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yes, seatbelt would save
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lives, still does save lives.
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Now we don't even think about it.
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You know, that's usually not a problem.
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It's very rare where that's a problem.
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Right. The same principle
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applies to ocean management.
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You know, I think I think when we when we
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start to look at things and how things
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are done, the more we
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can enforce, the better.
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Here's just a matter of can we get out to
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the people who are doing illegal
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activities and kept them in the act?
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And then when we do the enforcement, can
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we like, are the there's
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the punishment fit the crime?
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Because sometimes the punishment doesn't
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fit the crime in the past.
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Right. Or even now, I'm sure.
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Right. So I think that there's a lot of
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things that have changed over that.
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You know, when I started my career, I
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think like I focus
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mostly on like the science.
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You know, I didn't
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really know about policy.
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It didn't interest me
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at any point in time.
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But it's something that I was like, as I
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started to mature within and evolve
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within the career, my career and within
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ocean science and conservation, I
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realized that's why I
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can an important part.
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Same with science communication.
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Just as important.
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Getting the information out there on the
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negative trends, but also what's been
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working helps because it gives people
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hope that things can change.
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You know, by telling people that the
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Magnuson-Stevenson's Act and the
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Endangered Species Act have helped and
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the Marine Mountain
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Protection Act have helped.
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Great white sharks become bigger, like
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stronger, basically, and more distributed
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and bigger population has helped because
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of those policies that
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brings hope to people.
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Right.
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Sea lions increase because they weren't
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allowed to be hunted.
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They weren't allowed to be harassed.
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Magnuson-Stevenson's Act gave them the
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fish that they needed so the sea lions
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can increase in size and number as well
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as the great white sharks
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because that's what they eat.
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Right.
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It's all connected and we were able to
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help that and have a great conservation
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success story because of
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that policy and that governance.
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I just want to remind people, if you're
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getting value from this quick ocean news
401
00:11:57,916 --> 00:11:59,208
update or these quick ocean news update
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00:11:59,208 --> 00:12:01,375
Monday to Friday, please follow the show.
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00:12:01,875 --> 00:12:03,291
So you never miss another episode on your
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00:12:03,291 --> 00:12:04,166
favorite podcast app.
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00:12:04,791 --> 00:12:06,208
I personally, I usually listen to
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00:12:06,208 --> 00:12:08,833
podcasts on either YouTube.
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00:12:08,833 --> 00:12:10,250
I know they're not technically podcasts,
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00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:13,125
but also I'll listen to Apple podcasts
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00:12:13,125 --> 00:12:14,875
and Spotify every once in a while.
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00:12:14,916 --> 00:12:15,958
I mix all over the place.
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00:12:15,958 --> 00:12:17,625
So follow me on all those if you want so
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00:12:17,625 --> 00:12:19,375
that you can always get updates whenever
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00:12:19,375 --> 00:12:20,916
we put out episodes.
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00:12:20,916 --> 00:12:22,416
I think it's important, but follow it
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00:12:22,416 --> 00:12:24,041
helps other people discover the podcast
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00:12:24,041 --> 00:12:25,416
as well as well as keep
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00:12:25,416 --> 00:12:26,875
you in for the subscription.
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So that really helps.
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00:12:28,416 --> 00:12:29,208
So sometimes progress
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00:12:29,208 --> 00:12:30,416
doesn't feel like progress.
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Like one reason people feel discouraged
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00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:34,541
about the ocean is because ecological
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recovery takes time like a long time.
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You know, let's say a government creates
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a marine protected area today.
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Fish populations don't
427
00:12:40,958 --> 00:12:42,083
imagine you recover tomorrow.
428
00:12:42,458 --> 00:12:43,541
It's not a one day process.
429
00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:45,666
Coral reefs take a lot of time.
430
00:12:45,666 --> 00:12:46,875
They don't immediately bounce back.
431
00:12:47,041 --> 00:12:49,000
Ecosystems are not going to just
432
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,833
instantly heal at a snap of the fingers.
433
00:12:53,083 --> 00:12:54,666
Nature works over longer timelines,
434
00:12:55,125 --> 00:12:56,208
longer than politics.
435
00:12:57,166 --> 00:12:58,333
Right. That's why sometimes politicians
436
00:12:58,333 --> 00:12:59,875
don't like to make these big, big
437
00:12:59,875 --> 00:13:01,833
promises and commitments
438
00:13:01,833 --> 00:13:03,541
over longer than their tenure.
439
00:13:04,750 --> 00:13:07,625
Longer times than even social media, you
440
00:13:07,625 --> 00:13:09,708
know, longer times than news cycles.
441
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:10,833
Although I going back to the social
442
00:13:10,833 --> 00:13:14,125
media, like this is a perfect opportunity
443
00:13:14,125 --> 00:13:16,666
for you science communicators to create
444
00:13:16,666 --> 00:13:18,500
like journey type of content.
445
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,083
Like follow me while we watch the ups and
446
00:13:21,083 --> 00:13:23,375
downs of trying to bring this coral reef
447
00:13:23,375 --> 00:13:26,125
back or this mangrove back as we see
448
00:13:26,125 --> 00:13:27,708
plantings and ice as the
449
00:13:27,708 --> 00:13:30,166
cuttings and restoration happen.
450
00:13:30,625 --> 00:13:32,291
And, you know, we'll talk about grants
451
00:13:32,291 --> 00:13:33,541
and how sometimes we get them.
452
00:13:33,541 --> 00:13:35,416
Sometimes we don't are donors that help
453
00:13:35,416 --> 00:13:37,875
in because they follow this great
454
00:13:37,875 --> 00:13:38,916
opportunity, especially
455
00:13:38,916 --> 00:13:39,708
with these longer times.
456
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:40,666
And we don't have time
457
00:13:40,666 --> 00:13:42,125
lines say, hey, you know what?
458
00:13:42,125 --> 00:13:44,000
We're actually following this for long
459
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,333
terms and people on social media can
460
00:13:45,333 --> 00:13:46,583
follow you during that time.
461
00:13:47,083 --> 00:13:48,000
That's really important.
462
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:50,166
So these long timelines, you know,
463
00:13:50,166 --> 00:13:51,458
they're longer than the new cycles.
464
00:13:51,458 --> 00:13:52,333
We know news doesn't
465
00:13:52,333 --> 00:13:53,541
like to cover it too often.
466
00:13:53,708 --> 00:13:55,833
They just like the quick clicks because
467
00:13:55,833 --> 00:13:56,208
that's where they
468
00:13:56,208 --> 00:13:57,125
make most of their money.
469
00:13:58,041 --> 00:13:58,833
This one reason why
470
00:13:58,833 --> 00:14:00,291
conservation can feel frustrating.
471
00:14:01,041 --> 00:14:02,666
We often don't.
472
00:14:02,666 --> 00:14:04,208
We often see the damage immediately.
473
00:14:04,416 --> 00:14:05,291
So I can say that again.
474
00:14:05,666 --> 00:14:07,500
We often see the damage immediately, but
475
00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:09,000
recovery happens slowly.
476
00:14:09,875 --> 00:14:10,916
Sometimes over a year,
477
00:14:10,916 --> 00:14:11,750
sometimes over decades.
478
00:14:12,708 --> 00:14:15,041
The U.N. report that that really inspired
479
00:14:15,041 --> 00:14:15,708
me to do this episode
480
00:14:15,708 --> 00:14:17,000
highlights this challenge.
481
00:14:17,541 --> 00:14:18,750
We're improving governance, but the
482
00:14:18,750 --> 00:14:19,708
ecological benefits
483
00:14:19,708 --> 00:14:21,666
may take time to appear.
484
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,333
And to be honest, that's OK.
485
00:14:24,083 --> 00:14:25,875
A slow recovery is a good recovery
486
00:14:25,875 --> 00:14:27,916
because conservation has
487
00:14:27,916 --> 00:14:30,250
always been the long game.
488
00:14:30,958 --> 00:14:33,416
Always. You know, when we start to see
489
00:14:33,416 --> 00:14:35,208
like fishery rebuilds,
490
00:14:35,208 --> 00:14:35,708
it takes a long time.
491
00:14:35,708 --> 00:14:38,500
Like even the the the cod of the North
492
00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:41,958
Atlantic, we have seen rebuild over, you
493
00:14:41,958 --> 00:14:44,333
know, 30 years, over 30 years.
494
00:14:44,333 --> 00:14:46,416
It's still not to where we can really
495
00:14:46,416 --> 00:14:49,375
fish comfortably, even though they're
496
00:14:49,375 --> 00:14:51,208
expanding the fisheries in Canada, which
497
00:14:51,208 --> 00:14:53,000
is a big mistake, in my opinion.
498
00:14:53,791 --> 00:14:55,375
But we're starting to see that rebuild,
499
00:14:55,375 --> 00:14:56,541
but it's slow, depending on
500
00:14:56,541 --> 00:14:59,666
how bad the population was.
501
00:14:59,875 --> 00:15:00,708
We're starting to see that slow recovery.
502
00:15:00,750 --> 00:15:03,500
You know, recovery of whale populations
503
00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:04,916
can sometimes be a little quicker,
504
00:15:04,916 --> 00:15:08,375
depending if you can create the the
505
00:15:08,375 --> 00:15:11,625
environments where these long lived
506
00:15:11,625 --> 00:15:15,250
animals can actually reproduce and
507
00:15:15,250 --> 00:15:17,291
without having their young killed or
508
00:15:17,291 --> 00:15:18,958
dying for whatever reason.
509
00:15:19,708 --> 00:15:20,958
We can see a better
510
00:15:20,958 --> 00:15:21,708
recovery, but it takes time.
511
00:15:21,791 --> 00:15:24,166
You know, some of these whale
512
00:15:24,166 --> 00:15:26,875
populations, they'll have one, maybe two
513
00:15:26,875 --> 00:15:29,125
calves in their entire lives, like for
514
00:15:29,125 --> 00:15:30,666
per individual, sometimes
515
00:15:30,666 --> 00:15:32,208
more depending on their health.
516
00:15:32,791 --> 00:15:34,791
Right. So making a healthy population is
517
00:15:34,791 --> 00:15:37,083
going to take time protected areas.
518
00:15:37,083 --> 00:15:37,916
You know, they show the
519
00:15:37,916 --> 00:15:39,583
benefits years after creation.
520
00:15:39,916 --> 00:15:40,875
A lot of times we have to find
521
00:15:40,875 --> 00:15:43,083
alternative livelihoods for what we put
522
00:15:43,083 --> 00:15:44,666
in a marine protected area for fisheries
523
00:15:44,666 --> 00:15:46,083
for the fishing community,
524
00:15:46,083 --> 00:15:47,708
because that's what happens.
525
00:15:48,291 --> 00:15:49,000
Right. Because like it
526
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:49,708
takes time to recover.
527
00:15:49,708 --> 00:15:53,583
Like what would happen if we got if we
528
00:15:53,583 --> 00:15:55,416
just fitness after one trip to the gym,
529
00:15:55,416 --> 00:15:57,333
like, let's be honest, like, anytime I
530
00:15:57,333 --> 00:16:00,000
start to lose weight, I look at the scale
531
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,541
and I'm like, if I'm going to die, I'm
532
00:16:01,541 --> 00:16:02,500
like, I'm looking at the scale.
533
00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:05,166
I'm like, okay, I lost like three pounds,
534
00:16:05,166 --> 00:16:07,291
which is probably water weight, but then
535
00:16:07,291 --> 00:16:10,125
I'll have like reward myself the next day
536
00:16:10,125 --> 00:16:11,750
and I'll have like a slice of pizza or
537
00:16:11,750 --> 00:16:12,708
two or three or four.
538
00:16:12,708 --> 00:16:15,250
And then I go back to higher than what I
539
00:16:15,250 --> 00:16:17,458
was. You're not going to see that
540
00:16:17,458 --> 00:16:18,625
overnight success. You're not going to
541
00:16:18,625 --> 00:16:20,541
lose 20 to 30 pounds or whatever you want
542
00:16:20,541 --> 00:16:22,458
to use lose overnight.
543
00:16:23,041 --> 00:16:24,958
Right. That's going to be a long term
544
00:16:24,958 --> 00:16:27,583
thing. You know, just like it took a long
545
00:16:27,583 --> 00:16:29,000
time to gain the weight, it's going to
546
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,208
take a long time to lose the
547
00:16:30,208 --> 00:16:31,708
weight in a healthy manner.
548
00:16:32,708 --> 00:16:34,875
Some you might see some progress over
549
00:16:34,875 --> 00:16:36,916
time that does a little faster, but
550
00:16:36,916 --> 00:16:38,166
that's because of the work that you put
551
00:16:38,166 --> 00:16:40,250
in. We might see some ebbs and flows with
552
00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:42,083
conservation recovery and restoration.
553
00:16:43,125 --> 00:16:45,916
But, you know, it's not going to be much,
554
00:16:45,916 --> 00:16:48,750
you know, time a year over year because
555
00:16:48,750 --> 00:16:50,666
meaningful change takes time,
556
00:16:51,416 --> 00:16:51,708
especially sustainable change.
557
00:16:51,750 --> 00:16:55,083
Right. The same is true for ecosystems,
558
00:16:55,416 --> 00:16:56,833
you know, just like losing weight could
559
00:16:56,833 --> 00:16:58,458
take a long time, like one to two pounds
560
00:16:58,458 --> 00:17:00,666
a week. That takes a long time over time
561
00:17:00,666 --> 00:17:02,916
to lose that 20, 30 pounds. That's
562
00:17:02,916 --> 00:17:03,958
personally what I want to lose.
563
00:17:04,958 --> 00:17:06,791
You know, but you know, the same thing
564
00:17:06,791 --> 00:17:09,208
goes with building a coral reef,
565
00:17:09,208 --> 00:17:11,041
rebuilding. They're very slow growing
566
00:17:11,041 --> 00:17:13,000
organisms and it takes time
567
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,708
to grow that skeleton. Right.
568
00:17:15,416 --> 00:17:17,333
And it takes time to make sure that all
569
00:17:17,333 --> 00:17:19,791
the ingredients to help them grow are
570
00:17:19,791 --> 00:17:20,916
there and they're healthy
571
00:17:20,916 --> 00:17:23,041
and they're available. Right.
572
00:17:23,875 --> 00:17:25,166
I mean, if you like, if you look at all
573
00:17:25,166 --> 00:17:26,541
the episodes that we put this that we
574
00:17:26,541 --> 00:17:27,958
have this week, there's like ups and
575
00:17:27,958 --> 00:17:28,541
downs and everything
576
00:17:28,541 --> 00:17:29,500
that we talked about.
577
00:17:30,125 --> 00:17:31,500
And we start to see some progress with
578
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:33,500
the way people are putting in their
579
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:35,166
managing and then we start to see other
580
00:17:35,166 --> 00:17:37,500
things happen. You know, we're seeing
581
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:38,958
like, hey, we saw great white in the
582
00:17:38,958 --> 00:17:41,583
Mediterranean, you know, pilot whales
583
00:17:41,583 --> 00:17:43,333
that are can't hear each other because
584
00:17:43,333 --> 00:17:44,250
there's so much shipping.
585
00:17:44,708 --> 00:17:46,833
You know, all these things take time to
586
00:17:46,833 --> 00:17:49,083
develop and take time to detect and take
587
00:17:49,083 --> 00:17:52,166
time to put into law. You know, one thing
588
00:17:52,166 --> 00:17:54,666
I could I could tell you, I remember I
589
00:17:54,666 --> 00:17:56,166
think I've told the story before, but
590
00:17:56,166 --> 00:17:57,958
when I was working for fisheries and
591
00:17:57,958 --> 00:18:01,041
oceans in like 2012, 2013, the
592
00:18:01,041 --> 00:18:02,875
conservative Harper government came in
593
00:18:02,875 --> 00:18:05,041
government and he was Prime Minister
594
00:18:05,041 --> 00:18:07,875
Harper and they removed a lot of like,
595
00:18:07,875 --> 00:18:09,416
they removed the fisheries habitat
596
00:18:09,416 --> 00:18:11,375
section, like the protecting habitat in
597
00:18:11,375 --> 00:18:12,708
the fisheries act out of the fisheries act.
598
00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:15,083
They just took it out and they said, oh,
599
00:18:15,083 --> 00:18:15,875
we're just going to manage like
600
00:18:15,875 --> 00:18:17,666
commercially indigenous and
601
00:18:17,666 --> 00:18:19,666
recreationally important species for
602
00:18:19,666 --> 00:18:21,291
fisheries. We're not going to worry about
603
00:18:21,291 --> 00:18:22,791
their habitats because that doesn't
604
00:18:22,791 --> 00:18:24,583
matter. Apparently, which it does.
605
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:27,541
And so when they took it out after they
606
00:18:27,541 --> 00:18:30,291
got a like basically when when the
607
00:18:30,291 --> 00:18:32,333
Trudeau government came in, it took them
608
00:18:32,333 --> 00:18:34,833
like five years to re implement the
609
00:18:34,833 --> 00:18:36,125
fisheries act the way it was. They made a
610
00:18:36,125 --> 00:18:37,375
little stronger, but they had to go
611
00:18:37,375 --> 00:18:37,708
through consultation.
612
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:40,416
They had to do a bunch of readings and
613
00:18:40,416 --> 00:18:41,625
they had to put it back in. They had to
614
00:18:41,625 --> 00:18:42,666
go through testing that to go through
615
00:18:42,666 --> 00:18:44,541
debate and all that kind of stuff. It
616
00:18:44,541 --> 00:18:46,958
takes time. Government takes time, but it
617
00:18:46,958 --> 00:18:50,458
got better and hopefully changes will be
618
00:18:50,458 --> 00:18:52,666
harder to make, especially when you roll
619
00:18:52,666 --> 00:18:54,291
those back. We'll see how that works.
620
00:18:55,583 --> 00:18:56,500
You know, but like this week, we've
621
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:57,583
talked about great whites. We talked
622
00:18:57,583 --> 00:18:59,208
about fishing regulations, pilot whales,
623
00:18:59,208 --> 00:19:00,666
indigenous ownership. We talked a lot a
624
00:19:00,666 --> 00:19:05,000
lot that all has taken time. Right? Like
625
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,708
all of it has taken time.
626
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:08,958
And to be honest, that's why this report
627
00:19:08,958 --> 00:19:11,250
felt like left me with a little like
628
00:19:11,250 --> 00:19:14,166
cautiously optimistic. You know, the
629
00:19:14,166 --> 00:19:16,500
ocean is facing huge challenges, but the
630
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:18,375
science is clear about that. We know that
631
00:19:18,375 --> 00:19:20,291
they're facing challenges. But for the
632
00:19:20,291 --> 00:19:21,458
first time in a long time, we're also
633
00:19:21,458 --> 00:19:23,541
seeing stronger systems, better
634
00:19:23,541 --> 00:19:25,208
cooperation and more tools
635
00:19:25,208 --> 00:19:26,708
to address those challenges.
636
00:19:26,708 --> 00:19:30,000
And even though we're not nearly where we
637
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,791
need to be, you know, the ocean story is
638
00:19:32,791 --> 00:19:35,375
still a crisis story. We know that, but
639
00:19:35,375 --> 00:19:37,250
it's also becoming a governance story.
640
00:19:38,375 --> 00:19:41,041
And that's one reason I believe the
641
00:19:41,041 --> 00:19:43,375
future can be better than many people
642
00:19:43,375 --> 00:19:44,541
expect. Now it's just a matter of
643
00:19:44,541 --> 00:19:45,458
implementing those and
644
00:19:45,458 --> 00:19:46,708
making sure we follow those.
645
00:19:47,833 --> 00:19:49,541
And speaking of follow, if you haven't
646
00:19:49,541 --> 00:19:51,041
followed this podcast yet, please do.
647
00:19:51,375 --> 00:19:53,250
You'll get access to all of our ocean
648
00:19:53,250 --> 00:19:55,416
weekday updates. And I think that's
649
00:19:55,416 --> 00:19:57,208
important to learn how to protect the
650
00:19:57,208 --> 00:19:58,791
ocean. That's what we do this podcast.
651
00:19:58,791 --> 00:20:00,000
That's why I named it that way.
652
00:20:00,458 --> 00:20:02,333
All right. But that's it for today's
653
00:20:02,333 --> 00:20:04,125
episode. If you want to get ahold of me,
654
00:20:04,125 --> 00:20:05,666
you can just go in the show notes. You
655
00:20:05,666 --> 00:20:07,250
can DM me on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook,
656
00:20:07,458 --> 00:20:09,208
whatever you'd like to do. But I want to
657
00:20:09,208 --> 00:20:10,791
thank you again for joining me on today's
658
00:20:10,791 --> 00:20:11,791
episode of the How to
659
00:20:11,791 --> 00:20:12,708
Protect the Ocean podcast.
660
00:20:12,750 --> 00:20:14,833
I'm your host, Andrew. Have a great day.
661
00:20:14,833 --> 00:20:16,041
Have a great weekend. We'll talk to you
662
00:20:16,041 --> 00:20:17,583
on Monday and happy conservation.
