The Hard Truth About Working in Ocean Conservation

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11 years ago to this day,

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I published the first ever,

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how to protect the ocean podcast episode.

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What is now known as the how

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to protect the ocean podcast

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episode, it was known as a

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different podcast back then.

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I will tell you all about it.

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Plus what that podcast has

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led me to become and how it's

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helped me in my career.

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So we're good today is not just about

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celebrating the fact

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that this is 11 years.

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Today I'm going to be

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talking about in this episode,

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what it's like to have a

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career in marine science and

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conservation, whether it's science,

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conservation policy,

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or that, and what it takes

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to have this and what to know

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before you get into this, or

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as you're going through it,

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we're going to talk about the hardships.

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We're going to talk about what it takes.

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We're going to talk about

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how many times you have to

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volunteer with getting your own

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experience and the patience

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you need to get what you want.

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That's all on today's

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episode of the how to protect the

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ocean podcast, because this

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is where you get your ocean,

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use update every

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weekday, Monday to Friday.

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If you want to find out

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what's on tomorrow's episode,

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all you have to do is hit that follow

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button and you will get

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all the episodes to your

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phone or to your device.

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However you listen to

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this each and every weekday,

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Monday to Friday,

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let's get into the episode.

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Cause look 11 years ago, I

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published my first episode.

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It was called speak up for

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the blue, speak up for blue.

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That's what it was called. Speak up for

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blue, not speak up for the blue,

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speak up for blue. That

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was the company I had.

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I had created this company while I

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eventually created this company.

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But it started off as a hobby.

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It started off as for me, I wanted to

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create a podcast because I'd done YouTube

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before I had done blog posts before,

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but this podcast thing was

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something that I want to try.

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I had done in 2014, I had done a number

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of recordings for people where I had

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interviews because it was once a week and

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that's when I did my interviews.

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And I'll be honest after

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I published that episode,

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I did not realize at the time of my life

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would change in

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trajectory in terms of a career.

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Something I did not, did not expect was

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not ready for and it continues today.

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And I love it.

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And it's the reason why I have the job

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that I have today as an ocean,

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as an ocean communications

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manager at Pisces oceans.

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And if you want to know more and work

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with us at Pisces oceans,

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if you want to know community strategy,

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all that kind of stuff,

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you can go to Piscesoceans.ca.

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But this is what it's, it's come to and

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me building a community,

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building a community where

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people can get access to me,

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talk about oceans, talk about careers,

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talk about whatever you want and support

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the work that I do each and every day.

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Cause I published five days a week.

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I went, I went from publishing one day a

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week to publishing five days a week,

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11 years later to give you as much of as

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much as I can about the ocean that I know

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and that I know from others and I'm

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learning constantly to you.

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And if you want to

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support me in any kind of way,

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you can do that by going to

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speakupforblue.com forward slash Patreon

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that speakupforblue.com

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forward slash Patreon.

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Now look,

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I did not expect that podcasting or any

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kind of content creation would help me to

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get a position as a job.

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There's no way I thought

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that was going to happen.

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I thought back in 2015,

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when I first published,

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I thought that I was going to create and

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become a content creator.

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And have a business through content

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creation, get sponsorships

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and all this kind of stuff.

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That didn't quite work out as

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a full-time gig, which is fine.

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But I spent and I've dedicated 11 years

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to trying to bring you the great

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information of the ocean,

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ocean conservation and the people that

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are working in ocean

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science and conservation

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and the wonderful things that are

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happening there and sometimes

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the not so wonderful things.

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And that's been a huge pleasure for me to

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be able to bring to you.

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But during that time, I've had some

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absolutely incredible experiences and

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opportunities because I did this podcast.

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And look,

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the podcast and the science communication

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came out of me being a

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marine biologist in Ontario.

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And the reason why I was a marine

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biologist in Ontario is because when I

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met my now wife of 21 years,

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we decided to raise our kids

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and have our family in Ontario.

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And I said, what I expected

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when I grew up? Absolutely not.

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As I was growing up, I was expecting to

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probably live down in the US or live on

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the coast of Canada or live

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somewhere around the world.

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Being on the water, being on a boat most

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of the time and enjoying and swimming

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with dolphins and whales and sharks and

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all these kinds of things.

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I had huge dreams of what I

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wanted to do when I grew up.

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I got to live a part of it for some time,

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but it was not easy by any means.

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And I want to dedicate this episode to

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what it's like to work and not work in

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marine science and conservation.

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Because I wanted to put out a warning to

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all of you who are just

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starting out their career.

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It is tough.

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It is one of the toughest things to get

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jobs, permanent jobs,

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and have a specific lifestyle that you

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and maybe your friends

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have or expect to have.

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You know, permanent placements, a place

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to live, like a house or an apartment or

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a condo that you bought,

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family, like kids and things like that if

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you decide to do so.

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You know, being able to pay

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bills, being able to do that.

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It is not that easy,

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especially these days.

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And times have changed. There are more

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marine biologists and

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conservationists out there.

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There are more NGOs out there and there

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are more like private companies,

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nonprofit

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organizations that are out there,

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academic institutes that are out there.

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But there aren't as many jobs because the

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funding isn't as much

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to handle all of that.

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And so when you have nonprofits that are

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trying to hire, they're hiring

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people for very little money.

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You know, oftentimes $50,000 a year,

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which sounds okay when you come out of

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school and you're starting to build, but

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that's not sustainable.

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If you want to have a family, you know,

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you and your partner may or may not be

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able to, if you're earning the same, if

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you're in the same kind of business, you

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know, may or may not

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be able to accommodate.

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You may have to have a different

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lifestyle, which is fine. If you want to

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have that lifestyle, you know, of, of,

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that's different from what sort of like,

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what's considered like the dream, the,

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the quote unquote American dream, white

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picket fences, that kind of stuff.

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You may or may not be able to attain that

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on if you're both

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earning 40 to $50,000 a year.

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So, so you have to start, you know, like

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I always, I always tell people, you have

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to look at what type of job you want,

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like in your career and

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what type of career you want.

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And what does that lifestyle look like?

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And what kind of lifestyle

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do you want? Do you envision?

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Because your job and your

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lifestyle may not jive together.

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And I always say that to people and I

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understand like when I first came out, I

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just want to work. I just wanted, I would

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work for free. I would

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do all that, that stuff.

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But now I look back as a 47 year old

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turning 48 this year and all the stuff

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that I've been through and what I've seen

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friends go through some very successful,

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some, you know, successful in their own

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rights in terms of specific things

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they've been able to

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attain through their careers.

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But maybe not from a lifestyle

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perspective or maybe not where they

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expected to be when they first started

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and they just kind of live paycheck to

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paycheck or they, they live from place to

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place, renting different places or they,

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they travel so much that

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you may not have a place.

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There's a lot of things that go on within

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the marine science and conservation.

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I know I'm talking more about lifestyle

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here instead of like what you actually

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want to do for a career

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because I think it's important.

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I think it's because it's something that

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we don't always think about when we first

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think about getting a job.

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Because with marine biology and even

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marine science and conservation, you can

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work anywhere in the world.

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But what's that lifestyle going to be?

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How far are you going to be away from

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your family? How far are you going to be

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away from what you know and love like

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your country? Are you going to be able to

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live in your country? Are

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you going to be living abroad?

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Which sounds cool, but it comes with a

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lot of sacrifice and a lot of hardships

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ahead, but some great opportunities and

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some great adventures and you might meet

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the person of your dreams and have a

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great partner in that new place and all

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that kind of stuff and have a different

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lifestyle than you may have expected.

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The point is, is when it comes to

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lifestyle and it comes to jobs in this

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field or in this like plethora of fields

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within this, you know, sort of umbrella

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of marine science and conservation, you

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can have a lot of different things and

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you have to adapt to

277
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those different things.

278
00:08:38,625 --> 00:08:41,875
Right? And my best advice to you about

279
00:08:41,875 --> 00:08:43,500
the lifestyle that you would lead in

280
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those is talk to people who are doing the

281
00:08:45,208 --> 00:08:46,958
things that you want to be doing. If you

282
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see a creator who's doing some science

283
00:08:48,791 --> 00:08:51,291
and they're doing either PhD or postdoc

284
00:08:51,291 --> 00:08:53,083
or they're working for an organization or

285
00:08:53,083 --> 00:08:54,333
they're working in science communication

286
00:08:54,333 --> 00:08:56,916
or they're working as a policy person or

287
00:08:56,916 --> 00:08:58,083
they're working, you know, and you see

288
00:08:58,083 --> 00:08:59,958
them doing creative stuff and they're

289
00:08:59,958 --> 00:09:01,125
online and they're telling you about

290
00:09:01,125 --> 00:09:03,000
their jobs, reach out to them and ask

291
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,458
them what's their lifestyle like? You

292
00:09:05,458 --> 00:09:06,541
don't have to ask them what they get paid

293
00:09:06,541 --> 00:09:07,458
and all that kind of stuff. But what's

294
00:09:07,458 --> 00:09:08,625
their lifestyle? Say, I want to have a

295
00:09:08,666 --> 00:09:11,291
very similar life like you. Can we sit

296
00:09:11,291 --> 00:09:13,583
down and chat? I'd love to hear what you

297
00:09:13,583 --> 00:09:16,166
did to get to attain this career and what

298
00:09:16,166 --> 00:09:18,291
to know about and what are the advantages

299
00:09:18,291 --> 00:09:20,333
and disadvantages because we always see

300
00:09:20,333 --> 00:09:22,416
the advantages, especially when we see,

301
00:09:22,416 --> 00:09:25,000
you know, stuff online. We see the fun

302
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,666
stuff, but we don't see the behind the

303
00:09:26,666 --> 00:09:28,416
scenes stuff. And although there are

304
00:09:28,416 --> 00:09:29,875
very, there are a lot more creators who

305
00:09:29,875 --> 00:09:32,500
are very transparent with the type of

306
00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:34,208
work that they do and how much they not

307
00:09:34,208 --> 00:09:35,333
necessarily how much they are, but the

308
00:09:35,333 --> 00:09:36,625
lifestyle that they lead and everything

309
00:09:36,625 --> 00:09:38,083
and how difficult it is.

310
00:09:38,625 --> 00:09:39,916
You know, there's still some people who

311
00:09:39,916 --> 00:09:41,791
make it look like everything's dreamy.

312
00:09:42,333 --> 00:09:44,625
And so I want people to really understand

313
00:09:44,625 --> 00:09:48,208
that attaining a job and attaining a

314
00:09:48,208 --> 00:09:49,291
career in marine science and conservation

315
00:09:49,291 --> 00:09:51,250
is very difficult, especially when you

316
00:09:51,250 --> 00:09:54,416
have a specific lifestyle that you want.

317
00:09:54,750 --> 00:09:56,250
And there are jobs that provide it that

318
00:09:56,250 --> 00:09:57,541
are more administrative and may

319
00:09:57,541 --> 00:09:59,458
managerial that will be able to get have

320
00:09:59,458 --> 00:10:02,083
great pay and or at least livable wages.

321
00:10:02,375 --> 00:10:04,625
But you know, there's a lot that aren't.

322
00:10:04,833 --> 00:10:06,958
And so knowing that I think it's

323
00:10:06,958 --> 00:10:08,666
important before you go into it. So it's

324
00:10:08,666 --> 00:10:10,250
just like a warning for all of you. I get

325
00:10:10,250 --> 00:10:12,625
a lot of parents who asked me, you know,

326
00:10:12,625 --> 00:10:13,750
high school students and things like

327
00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:16,833
that, that are are wondering, like, hey,

328
00:10:17,041 --> 00:10:18,583
I really did. My kid really wants to go

329
00:10:18,583 --> 00:10:20,625
into marine biology. Can you talk to

330
00:10:20,625 --> 00:10:22,000
them? I talked to them and they're very,

331
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,500
you know, they're eager. They're ready to

332
00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:26,416
do whatever. But like, I don't know if

333
00:10:26,416 --> 00:10:27,916
they understand because like, how can you

334
00:10:27,916 --> 00:10:29,875
ask a high school kid to like say, hey,

335
00:10:29,875 --> 00:10:30,750
how do you want to live your life?

336
00:10:30,916 --> 00:10:33,166
You're 35. It's very difficult to do,

337
00:10:33,166 --> 00:10:34,916
right? So a lot of times I talk to

338
00:10:34,916 --> 00:10:36,958
parents like, look, it's a very difficult

339
00:10:36,958 --> 00:10:39,833
thing to navigate because funding is not

340
00:10:39,833 --> 00:10:43,416
always constant. Changes all the time. A

341
00:10:43,416 --> 00:10:45,250
lot of the jobs are like within for

342
00:10:45,250 --> 00:10:48,250
months, not even years. So like it's very

343
00:10:48,250 --> 00:10:50,500
there's a high turnover rates with a lot

344
00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:52,750
of organizations. A lot of times there's

345
00:10:52,750 --> 00:10:54,375
volunteering involved. There's a lot of

346
00:10:54,375 --> 00:10:56,708
travel may not be that at the employees

347
00:10:56,708 --> 00:10:58,208
expense. Maybe at your own expense.

348
00:10:58,708 --> 00:11:00,458
You can get volunteering jobs and you can

349
00:11:00,458 --> 00:11:02,458
get internships where you pay people to

350
00:11:02,458 --> 00:11:04,500
get experience, but that's not always

351
00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:06,541
great for you and it costs a lot of

352
00:11:06,541 --> 00:11:08,500
money. So if you those who don't have a

353
00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:10,208
lot of money to do is kind of unfair for

354
00:11:10,208 --> 00:11:11,500
them, but they have to come up with that

355
00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:15,375
money to find that kind of that kind of

356
00:11:15,375 --> 00:11:18,083
experience, you know, so it's.

357
00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:23,250
It's so hard. It is so hard to kind of

358
00:11:23,250 --> 00:11:26,125
figure that out. And I see a lot of a lot

359
00:11:26,125 --> 00:11:28,083
of people getting degrees from all over

360
00:11:28,083 --> 00:11:30,083
the world and then they travel to

361
00:11:30,083 --> 00:11:31,416
different parts of the world where is

362
00:11:31,416 --> 00:11:33,000
lower cost of living. They

363
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,416
can work as a dive master.

364
00:11:35,208 --> 00:11:36,583
They can work in the eco tourism and

365
00:11:36,583 --> 00:11:38,083
still do science. There are some people

366
00:11:38,083 --> 00:11:40,125
who have become creators or consultants

367
00:11:40,125 --> 00:11:43,000
who have like almost like secondary jobs

368
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,416
that help pay the bills so they can do

369
00:11:44,416 --> 00:11:46,083
their science and conservation work.

370
00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:47,708
And there's a lot of other people. We are

371
00:11:47,708 --> 00:11:50,625
in a very different stage than when I was

372
00:11:50,625 --> 00:11:52,166
20 some odd years ago

373
00:11:52,166 --> 00:11:53,791
when I first started.

374
00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:56,625
Or you know, is really you needed a job

375
00:11:56,625 --> 00:11:59,875
to be to get money in this. You know, you

376
00:11:59,875 --> 00:12:02,166
couldn't just do a content creator and

377
00:12:02,166 --> 00:12:03,791
earn money from that and do

378
00:12:03,791 --> 00:12:04,958
the work that you want to do.

379
00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:07,208
And you know, even with the content

380
00:12:07,208 --> 00:12:08,625
creation, if you get sponsored, you get

381
00:12:08,625 --> 00:12:10,333
people to pay you to do out science

382
00:12:10,333 --> 00:12:11,791
communication stuff. You have to be

383
00:12:11,791 --> 00:12:13,291
careful of who's paying you and why

384
00:12:13,291 --> 00:12:15,250
they're doing it. And if that's what you

385
00:12:15,250 --> 00:12:17,625
want and that's what you're ready to do.

386
00:12:17,625 --> 00:12:19,541
There's judgment that goes along with

387
00:12:19,541 --> 00:12:23,000
that. There's still a lot of myths that

388
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,625
are involved with science communication,

389
00:12:24,625 --> 00:12:26,416
especially as quote unquote influencers

390
00:12:26,416 --> 00:12:28,500
or what I like to call content creators.

391
00:12:28,541 --> 00:12:30,708
Not a lot of people in science and

392
00:12:30,708 --> 00:12:34,416
conservation have a good experience or

393
00:12:34,416 --> 00:12:36,333
have a good outlook on people who are

394
00:12:36,333 --> 00:12:38,208
doing stuff online to make money and try

395
00:12:38,208 --> 00:12:39,500
and come up with their stuff, which

396
00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:41,041
that's their problem is not your problem.

397
00:12:41,041 --> 00:12:44,250
You do what you need to do to get your

398
00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:47,083
money and to be able to do what you want

399
00:12:47,083 --> 00:12:50,166
to do. I feel like we are in a time where

400
00:12:50,166 --> 00:12:54,041
we are in a good time to have like a

401
00:12:54,041 --> 00:12:56,083
separate kind of not necessarily a side

402
00:12:56,083 --> 00:12:57,500
hustle, but you can do both.

403
00:12:57,500 --> 00:13:00,583
In content creation and really be able to

404
00:13:00,583 --> 00:13:03,000
push forward. But the real like the thing

405
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,708
is what I want to cover today as well is

406
00:13:05,708 --> 00:13:08,125
like the work like so I have a job that

407
00:13:08,125 --> 00:13:11,625
so all my every time I do my podcasting

408
00:13:11,625 --> 00:13:13,666
has always come as a hobby.

409
00:13:14,583 --> 00:13:16,000
If you want to describe it as that. I

410
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,500
always called it my full time job that I

411
00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:20,125
ever got paid for. I had sponsorships

412
00:13:20,125 --> 00:13:21,958
every once in a while, but nearly not

413
00:13:21,958 --> 00:13:23,916
nearly enough to go full time or not

414
00:13:23,916 --> 00:13:25,000
nearly enough to pay the bills.

415
00:13:25,583 --> 00:13:31,416
At one point I did quit one of my jobs, a

416
00:13:31,416 --> 00:13:34,625
very secure job to do this full time and

417
00:13:34,625 --> 00:13:37,541
to do some consulting as well on

418
00:13:37,541 --> 00:13:39,541
podcasting and the consulting didn't work

419
00:13:39,541 --> 00:13:40,750
out. I had to do full time and didn't

420
00:13:40,750 --> 00:13:42,041
know how to make money off of it.

421
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:45,083
You know, just didn't couldn't put it

422
00:13:45,083 --> 00:13:48,041
together. I went into big debt for about

423
00:13:48,041 --> 00:13:50,291
three years and then had to get a job in

424
00:13:50,291 --> 00:13:53,666
a very different fields in finance and

425
00:13:53,666 --> 00:13:57,250
public sector budgeting software and sass

426
00:13:57,250 --> 00:13:59,166
and all that kind of stuff. And I had to

427
00:13:59,166 --> 00:14:01,041
recoup from that. You know,

428
00:14:01,291 --> 00:14:02,625
you live in your learn right?

429
00:14:04,250 --> 00:14:07,666
And so, but now I have a job as an ocean

430
00:14:07,666 --> 00:14:09,291
communications manager. And if you go to

431
00:14:09,291 --> 00:14:12,750
the beyond jaws podcast a couple episodes

432
00:14:12,750 --> 00:14:14,625
ago, I did an episode where I talked

433
00:14:14,625 --> 00:14:16,333
about how I got this job, but I'll go

434
00:14:16,333 --> 00:14:18,333
into it here for those of you who haven't

435
00:14:18,333 --> 00:14:19,250
listened to that episode.

436
00:14:19,875 --> 00:14:21,291
I highly recommend you go there because I

437
00:14:21,291 --> 00:14:24,166
did talk a lot about it, but I had to put

438
00:14:24,166 --> 00:14:26,500
the work in and I had to be very patient.

439
00:14:27,541 --> 00:14:30,375
You know, 16 years ago, I decided that I

440
00:14:30,375 --> 00:14:31,875
was going to go into science. I was going

441
00:14:31,875 --> 00:14:34,041
to do science communication. I eventually

442
00:14:34,041 --> 00:14:35,875
the all the thought was always to do it

443
00:14:35,875 --> 00:14:38,041
on my own and to do that as full time

444
00:14:38,041 --> 00:14:40,166
started off as a blog, did YouTube for

445
00:14:40,166 --> 00:14:40,875
those of you listening.

446
00:14:41,125 --> 00:14:42,916
You've you've heard the story before got

447
00:14:42,916 --> 00:14:45,333
into podcasting, start publishing,

448
00:14:45,791 --> 00:14:47,458
published my first episode 11 years ago

449
00:14:47,458 --> 00:14:48,666
and haven't stopped since.

450
00:14:48,666 --> 00:14:50,500
I'm almost at 2000 episodes.

451
00:14:50,541 --> 00:14:53,583
I've done interviews like well over 1000

452
00:14:53,583 --> 00:14:55,625
interviews and the rest have been solo

453
00:14:55,625 --> 00:14:58,125
episodes. I've changed up my frequency.

454
00:14:58,125 --> 00:15:00,083
I've done all I've tried to get sponsors.

455
00:15:00,083 --> 00:15:02,791
I've done all I've done a lot within this

456
00:15:02,791 --> 00:15:03,958
content creation business.

457
00:15:03,958 --> 00:15:05,916
I love it. I will never regret it because

458
00:15:05,916 --> 00:15:07,833
it opened up a lot of opportunities for

459
00:15:07,833 --> 00:15:09,791
me. And the reason it did that is because

460
00:15:09,791 --> 00:15:10,500
I was doing this on my own.

461
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:13,541
And the first time I got a taste of it

462
00:15:13,541 --> 00:15:15,833
wasn't necessarily for myself, but I was

463
00:15:15,833 --> 00:15:18,625
doing I was doing this podcast. It was

464
00:15:18,625 --> 00:15:20,041
like my first year doing this podcast

465
00:15:20,041 --> 00:15:22,250
like the first couple of years and a

466
00:15:22,250 --> 00:15:25,416
friend of mine, Nathan Johnson, who I

467
00:15:25,416 --> 00:15:27,083
didn't know before this became a friend

468
00:15:27,083 --> 00:15:28,250
after forever friends.

469
00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:32,333
And he was working in like a for a

470
00:15:32,333 --> 00:15:36,375
conservation organization in Texas and he

471
00:15:36,375 --> 00:15:38,500
reached out to me, said, Hey, I want to

472
00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:39,916
get into more writing. I see that you're

473
00:15:39,916 --> 00:15:42,083
doing episodes. I would love to your show

474
00:15:42,083 --> 00:15:44,375
notes. Perfect. Let's do this. Okay. This

475
00:15:44,375 --> 00:15:46,500
is great. So we started to work together.

476
00:15:46,541 --> 00:15:47,916
Then we started to get on the podcast

477
00:15:47,916 --> 00:15:49,750
together. He worked with me for with me

478
00:15:49,750 --> 00:15:52,291
on for like a year and a half, two years,

479
00:15:52,291 --> 00:15:53,791
I think got to know each other. He was a

480
00:15:53,791 --> 00:15:57,458
great guy. Still is a great guy. And he

481
00:15:57,458 --> 00:16:00,333
got a job and I was one of his references

482
00:16:00,333 --> 00:16:02,125
because he asked me to be running his

483
00:16:02,125 --> 00:16:04,666
references because he dedicated a lot of

484
00:16:04,666 --> 00:16:06,500
his spare time to doing this podcast.

485
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:08,875
And I told the person in like the

486
00:16:08,875 --> 00:16:10,583
reference and hey, like this guy's does

487
00:16:10,583 --> 00:16:13,958
this for fun. You know, talking about

488
00:16:13,958 --> 00:16:15,791
science, we would do like an ocean talk

489
00:16:15,791 --> 00:16:17,708
Friday and we would do all this kind of

490
00:16:17,708 --> 00:16:20,333
stuff together. He did it for fun. He did

491
00:16:20,333 --> 00:16:21,250
it because he loved it.

492
00:16:21,666 --> 00:16:22,833
And he got better at communicating

493
00:16:22,833 --> 00:16:25,916
because of it. And he got a job that was

494
00:16:25,916 --> 00:16:27,708
partly internal communications with

495
00:16:27,708 --> 00:16:29,541
donors for a very big

496
00:16:29,541 --> 00:16:31,500
organization in ocean conservation.

497
00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:34,916
And look, the guy was amazing. Would he

498
00:16:34,916 --> 00:16:36,916
have gotten the job otherwise? Probably.

499
00:16:37,125 --> 00:16:39,416
But this was just icing on the cake. When

500
00:16:39,416 --> 00:16:41,000
the person is like, I really needed to

501
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,375
know this. Like the person

502
00:16:42,375 --> 00:16:43,750
who asked me for the reference.

503
00:16:44,791 --> 00:16:46,625
She said, I really need to know that I

504
00:16:46,625 --> 00:16:48,041
really needed to know this is great to

505
00:16:48,041 --> 00:16:49,541
hear. Like he's very dedicated to what he

506
00:16:49,541 --> 00:16:50,833
does. And I said, absolutely. He's very

507
00:16:50,833 --> 00:16:53,666
dedicated. So that was the first taste I

508
00:16:53,666 --> 00:16:56,041
had of someone getting an opportunity

509
00:16:56,041 --> 00:16:58,125
from podcasting. Not to say that it

510
00:16:58,125 --> 00:16:59,166
brought him that, but it

511
00:16:59,166 --> 00:17:00,500
helped him solidify the job.

512
00:17:00,916 --> 00:17:02,833
The guy was amazing anyway. He did

513
00:17:02,833 --> 00:17:05,958
amazing. He still does amazing and he

514
00:17:05,958 --> 00:17:07,333
would have done well whether he had my

515
00:17:07,333 --> 00:17:09,375
reference or not, but it helped because

516
00:17:09,375 --> 00:17:11,000
when employers see that you're willing to

517
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,791
dedicate time outside of work, like for

518
00:17:13,791 --> 00:17:16,000
free as your hobby or doing something

519
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,000
within the ocean conservation world.

520
00:17:18,791 --> 00:17:19,791
If you're trying to get an ocean

521
00:17:19,791 --> 00:17:22,666
conservation job, it helps. It helps to

522
00:17:22,666 --> 00:17:24,041
show that you have that initiative and

523
00:17:24,041 --> 00:17:26,583
that motivation to help you get to what

524
00:17:26,583 --> 00:17:28,000
you want to do in your

525
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:28,500
life and in your job.

526
00:17:28,541 --> 00:17:31,208
Right. That's dedication. That's loyalty.

527
00:17:32,125 --> 00:17:34,458
And I started to get some of that as well

528
00:17:34,458 --> 00:17:36,583
through different opportunities. I went

529
00:17:36,583 --> 00:17:38,833
out to a couple of conferences over the

530
00:17:38,833 --> 00:17:41,416
years. I got flown out to one of them. I

531
00:17:41,416 --> 00:17:46,000
got a free stay. That was great. I got a

532
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,416
job offer from it. Actually two job

533
00:17:48,416 --> 00:17:49,125
offers because then

534
00:17:49,125 --> 00:17:49,500
and I took both of them.

535
00:17:49,541 --> 00:17:52,250
The first one didn't work out. This one

536
00:17:52,250 --> 00:17:56,166
worked out or is working out so far. I

537
00:17:56,166 --> 00:18:00,041
got TV show roles, multiple. Like I've

538
00:18:00,041 --> 00:18:02,666
done four or five now. If you count all

539
00:18:02,666 --> 00:18:05,291
the seasons and everything. So like all

540
00:18:05,291 --> 00:18:07,250
these opportunities over these years have

541
00:18:07,250 --> 00:18:09,500
really benefited me. Right.

542
00:18:09,791 --> 00:18:12,333
And it benefited me and some paying gigs.

543
00:18:12,333 --> 00:18:13,750
It benefited me and some like

544
00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:15,708
opportunities to be in a, in front of a

545
00:18:15,708 --> 00:18:18,458
wider audience. It just helped in a lot

546
00:18:18,458 --> 00:18:23,208
of ways. And that has continued through

547
00:18:23,208 --> 00:18:27,250
over time to build my name up and build

548
00:18:27,250 --> 00:18:28,250
what I've been able to do.

549
00:18:28,375 --> 00:18:29,333
I didn't know anything about science

550
00:18:29,333 --> 00:18:30,833
communication before I started. I knew

551
00:18:30,833 --> 00:18:32,291
nothing. I didn't know about

552
00:18:32,291 --> 00:18:34,791
storytelling. I didn't know about the

553
00:18:34,791 --> 00:18:37,250
technical aspects of like podcasting,

554
00:18:37,250 --> 00:18:38,583
YouTubing and all that kind of stuff. I

555
00:18:38,583 --> 00:18:39,500
didn't know any of that.

556
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:43,708
And now I'm at a point now where I'm

557
00:18:43,708 --> 00:18:44,958
working as an ocean communications

558
00:18:44,958 --> 00:18:47,250
manager. Now back then I wouldn't have

559
00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:48,833
like 16 years ago, I would not have been

560
00:18:48,833 --> 00:18:50,708
able to get a job in science

561
00:18:50,708 --> 00:18:51,875
communication. I just did not have the

562
00:18:51,875 --> 00:18:53,208
knowledge. I did not have the thing. I

563
00:18:53,208 --> 00:18:55,458
love talking about the ocean. Right. And

564
00:18:55,458 --> 00:18:57,125
I always had like some talent for it that

565
00:18:57,125 --> 00:18:59,041
I didn't even realize at that point. And

566
00:18:59,041 --> 00:19:00,708
even science communication wasn't like

567
00:19:00,708 --> 00:19:02,291
the biggest job back then. It was a lot

568
00:19:02,291 --> 00:19:03,583
of hobbyists. You know, you had deep sea

569
00:19:03,583 --> 00:19:05,500
news. You had Southern fried science. You had a couple of others. We had conferences and stuff like that. But people weren't really dedicated to that.

570
00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:11,125
They weren't getting paid for it full

571
00:19:11,125 --> 00:19:12,416
time. Now you're seeing more and more

572
00:19:12,416 --> 00:19:14,083
people getting paid for it. You had

573
00:19:14,083 --> 00:19:15,125
communications people, but they weren't

574
00:19:15,125 --> 00:19:17,000
like science communicators. And now we're

575
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,208
starting to see more and more of that

576
00:19:18,208 --> 00:19:20,375
through organizations and stuff. And so

577
00:19:20,375 --> 00:19:24,041
when I started looking around my this new

578
00:19:24,041 --> 00:19:26,500
opportunity for me was was great because the person who hired me Natalie Gilson, who I work for.

579
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:33,791
with the people I work for she contacted

580
00:19:33,791 --> 00:19:35,750
me like three or four years ago through

581
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:37,458
the podcast. She heard my podcast. We

582
00:19:37,458 --> 00:19:38,916
were both living in Ontario at the time.

583
00:19:39,708 --> 00:19:41,125
She reached out to me. Said, hey, you

584
00:19:41,125 --> 00:19:42,958
know I'm a marketer. I own my own

585
00:19:42,958 --> 00:19:45,041
business. I'm looking to get into oceans.

586
00:19:45,041 --> 00:19:46,583
It kind of had like I wanted to have more

587
00:19:46,583 --> 00:19:49,125
impact. And I would love to talk to you.

588
00:19:49,125 --> 00:19:50,791
Had her on the podcast. We talked about

589
00:19:50,791 --> 00:19:52,041
science communication. We talked about

590
00:19:52,041 --> 00:19:54,500
communication and conservation marketing

591
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:56,083
and all that kind of stuff. We had a

592
00:19:56,083 --> 00:19:56,500
great conversation. We had a great conversation with a

593
00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:57,875
It went really well.

594
00:19:57,875 --> 00:19:59,083
We've been able to hit it off.

595
00:19:59,333 --> 00:20:01,125
Like we've done projects together.

596
00:20:01,125 --> 00:20:03,750
We've talked a lot and it's been great.

597
00:20:04,333 --> 00:20:04,875
And then when she

598
00:20:04,875 --> 00:20:06,416
approached me earlier this March

599
00:20:06,583 --> 00:20:09,541
to work for her, it was just like,

600
00:20:09,541 --> 00:20:11,666
it was an easy yes, to be honest.

601
00:20:12,333 --> 00:20:13,375
It was an easy yes.

602
00:20:13,666 --> 00:20:14,791
Everything fell in line.

603
00:20:16,291 --> 00:20:18,958
And the work I do now is a dream.

604
00:20:18,958 --> 00:20:19,875
It's a dream job because

605
00:20:19,875 --> 00:20:20,791
I've been working at it

606
00:20:20,791 --> 00:20:21,500
for so long.

607
00:20:22,041 --> 00:20:23,291
And my point of all this

608
00:20:23,291 --> 00:20:24,625
is that I had to work for it

609
00:20:24,625 --> 00:20:25,458
for so long.

610
00:20:25,583 --> 00:20:26,458
I didn't know if an

611
00:20:26,458 --> 00:20:27,708
opportunity would show up.

612
00:20:28,375 --> 00:20:31,083
I didn't know if I would

613
00:20:31,083 --> 00:20:32,041
get paid to do something.

614
00:20:32,041 --> 00:20:32,625
I didn't know that I was going

615
00:20:32,625 --> 00:20:34,041
to get TV shows because of it

616
00:20:34,041 --> 00:20:35,916
or offers for TV shows because of it.

617
00:20:36,166 --> 00:20:37,291
I didn't know any of that.

618
00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:40,500
All I knew is I knew what I wanted to do.

619
00:20:41,375 --> 00:20:42,541
I knew that I love to

620
00:20:42,541 --> 00:20:43,458
talk about the ocean.

621
00:20:44,541 --> 00:20:46,166
For me, my personal life,

622
00:20:46,166 --> 00:20:47,250
like just personal choices

623
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:48,958
had kept me in Ontario,

624
00:20:48,958 --> 00:20:49,916
which was very difficult

625
00:20:49,916 --> 00:20:51,791
to do ocean conservation.

626
00:20:52,791 --> 00:20:54,541
And so I started this podcast to stay

627
00:20:54,791 --> 00:20:56,291
in connection with my

628
00:20:56,291 --> 00:20:57,750
colleagues and my friends.

629
00:20:58,416 --> 00:21:00,166
I also talk about the ocean all the time

630
00:21:00,416 --> 00:21:02,291
and stay up on the news and all the new

631
00:21:02,291 --> 00:21:03,666
research and everything like that.

632
00:21:04,583 --> 00:21:06,500
And almost two episodes later

633
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:07,916
and three million downloads,

634
00:21:08,708 --> 00:21:09,458
I've been able to,

635
00:21:09,958 --> 00:21:11,625
you know, and a new job

636
00:21:12,291 --> 00:21:14,333
and a lot more friends that I

637
00:21:14,333 --> 00:21:15,708
had in like ocean conservation.

638
00:21:15,958 --> 00:21:17,583
I've been able to travel a lot more than

639
00:21:17,583 --> 00:21:18,791
I ever thought I would have.

640
00:21:19,416 --> 00:21:20,375
This has been a dream.

641
00:21:20,833 --> 00:21:21,583
It's hard work.

642
00:21:21,916 --> 00:21:23,041
There's no doubt about that.

643
00:21:23,041 --> 00:21:25,833
I did this long, long hours

644
00:21:25,833 --> 00:21:28,000
at night, you know, as a dad,

645
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:28,916
I did coaching and

646
00:21:28,916 --> 00:21:29,583
all that kind of stuff,

647
00:21:29,583 --> 00:21:32,208
but this was always there and I always

648
00:21:32,208 --> 00:21:34,208
had to put episodes out and it was

649
00:21:34,291 --> 00:21:37,000
difficult, you know, and it's easier now,

650
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,166
but it's still always,

651
00:21:38,208 --> 00:21:39,416
sometimes it's difficult

652
00:21:39,416 --> 00:21:40,583
to go through all this,

653
00:21:40,583 --> 00:21:42,333
the work that you have to go through to

654
00:21:42,333 --> 00:21:45,125
get everything out there and the money

655
00:21:45,125 --> 00:21:46,500
I've spent on this has just got

656
00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:48,041
ridiculous. You know,

657
00:21:48,250 --> 00:21:49,875
I'm definitely net negative in terms of

658
00:21:49,875 --> 00:21:51,500
the money, but it made it for me.

659
00:21:51,541 --> 00:21:55,041
Personally, it was a fun thing.

660
00:21:55,833 --> 00:21:58,166
Like it was something that I enjoyed and

661
00:21:58,166 --> 00:21:59,750
something that I looked to, to,

662
00:21:59,875 --> 00:22:02,625
to build on, you know, I don't think I'll

663
00:22:02,625 --> 00:22:04,083
ever stop podcasting. There's,

664
00:22:04,083 --> 00:22:06,750
there's no way I'll ever stop. And,

665
00:22:06,750 --> 00:22:08,625
and although I go through changes in my

666
00:22:08,625 --> 00:22:10,625
storytelling and putting a script

667
00:22:10,708 --> 00:22:14,000
together or using different software to,

668
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,416
to record and I have lights and I have

669
00:22:16,416 --> 00:22:18,416
camera and I try and do YouTube now and

670
00:22:18,416 --> 00:22:20,666
all that kind of stuff as things evolve,

671
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:22,458
I'm in a great place.

672
00:22:22,458 --> 00:22:24,000
Cause I know what the content that I want

673
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,541
to talk about and I know that people

674
00:22:25,541 --> 00:22:28,125
like it and I know that I love doing it

675
00:22:28,125 --> 00:22:30,500
and it's gotten me a job because of it.

676
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:31,833
It's got me back into ocean

677
00:22:31,833 --> 00:22:32,583
communications where

678
00:22:32,583 --> 00:22:33,416
if I stayed in Ontario,

679
00:22:33,416 --> 00:22:35,375
I probably wouldn't have worked in ocean

680
00:22:35,375 --> 00:22:38,500
communications ever again, right?

681
00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:40,500
Or anything ocean ever again.

682
00:22:41,416 --> 00:22:42,875
So this has allowed me to

683
00:22:42,875 --> 00:22:44,541
work in the dream scenario.

684
00:22:44,541 --> 00:22:45,833
I get to work from home. I get to be

685
00:22:45,833 --> 00:22:46,875
around the kids a lot.

686
00:22:47,250 --> 00:22:48,333
I get to be around my family.

687
00:22:49,083 --> 00:22:50,583
I get to work in oceans

688
00:22:50,583 --> 00:22:52,791
every single day, hours.

689
00:22:52,791 --> 00:22:53,666
I don't even care about how

690
00:22:53,666 --> 00:22:54,833
many hours I work anymore.

691
00:22:54,833 --> 00:22:56,625
Like I work more than eight hours a day,

692
00:22:56,625 --> 00:22:58,541
but I love it. It's like, it's,

693
00:22:58,541 --> 00:23:01,458
it's fun for me. And, and this is like

694
00:23:01,458 --> 00:23:02,333
the great opportunity,

695
00:23:02,708 --> 00:23:06,333
but it came with a lot of hard work. And,

696
00:23:06,666 --> 00:23:08,333
and the one of the major points of this

697
00:23:08,333 --> 00:23:11,708
episode is you might have to put in extra

698
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:15,041
work, whether you're doing this, uh,

699
00:23:15,125 --> 00:23:17,916
paying to do that extra work or you're

700
00:23:17,916 --> 00:23:19,333
getting paid to do that extra work or

701
00:23:19,333 --> 00:23:21,125
you're doing it for free or with a net

702
00:23:21,125 --> 00:23:22,500
negative cause you have to invest in

703
00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:23,708
some equipment or anything like that.

704
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,000
I'm not saying you have to start a

705
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,375
podcast or do content creation,

706
00:23:26,791 --> 00:23:29,125
but you have to show people who you are

707
00:23:29,125 --> 00:23:33,000
and what you do because resumes are not

708
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,416
going to cut it as much anymore.

709
00:23:34,666 --> 00:23:36,958
Now a good resume for a good job that you

710
00:23:36,958 --> 00:23:39,166
apply for and that you qualify for

711
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:40,750
that will work eventually.

712
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:43,458
But the way resumes are going in the way

713
00:23:43,458 --> 00:23:45,791
we are applying for jobs and with AI and

714
00:23:45,791 --> 00:23:46,541
everything like that,

715
00:23:46,541 --> 00:23:48,625
the game has changed folks.

716
00:23:49,458 --> 00:23:51,666
It's harder to get through to get that

717
00:23:51,666 --> 00:23:53,208
interview than it has ever been.

718
00:23:53,916 --> 00:23:57,458
And so networking or putting your name

719
00:23:57,458 --> 00:23:59,291
out there to become a little bit more

720
00:23:59,375 --> 00:24:01,250
popular opportunities will come.

721
00:24:01,250 --> 00:24:03,166
They may not come in what you expect them

722
00:24:03,166 --> 00:24:04,541
to come in the form that you expect them

723
00:24:04,541 --> 00:24:06,000
to come in, but they will

724
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,208
arrive at some point in time.

725
00:24:08,416 --> 00:24:10,458
If you continue to put something out

726
00:24:10,458 --> 00:24:13,166
there that will really help you.

727
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,416
And it might take a couple of people to

728
00:24:15,416 --> 00:24:17,291
recognize that like key people to

729
00:24:17,291 --> 00:24:19,875
recognize that, but I'm going to tell you

730
00:24:19,875 --> 00:24:22,583
it's going to be worth your while.

731
00:24:24,125 --> 00:24:27,208
And I, and it's hard work, but that's

732
00:24:27,208 --> 00:24:27,875
what's, that's what

733
00:24:27,875 --> 00:24:29,416
it takes to get there.

734
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:31,958
And, and to do that as an analogy, to

735
00:24:31,958 --> 00:24:33,208
kind of come up with an analogy is,

736
00:24:34,541 --> 00:24:35,791
you know, when, when,

737
00:24:35,791 --> 00:24:38,000
um, blogging first started,

738
00:24:38,416 --> 00:24:41,250
uh, you know, when you, the first couple

739
00:24:41,250 --> 00:24:42,250
of people who did blogging,

740
00:24:42,250 --> 00:24:43,041
they were amazing.

741
00:24:43,875 --> 00:24:45,166
They were awesome because people listened

742
00:24:45,166 --> 00:24:47,166
to them all the time or read them all

743
00:24:47,166 --> 00:24:49,000
the time because they were the only ones

744
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,000
that around it was new.

745
00:24:50,458 --> 00:24:51,791
People were just getting onto it.

746
00:24:52,458 --> 00:24:54,375
And then over time, more and more people

747
00:24:54,375 --> 00:24:56,208
started blogging about everything.

748
00:24:57,250 --> 00:24:59,291
And, and so we had like thousands and

749
00:24:59,291 --> 00:25:01,000
even millions of blog sites because

750
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:01,875
everybody had a blog,

751
00:25:01,875 --> 00:25:02,958
even now people start blogs.

752
00:25:04,041 --> 00:25:06,125
And, and, and so it got so

753
00:25:06,125 --> 00:25:08,000
congested with information.

754
00:25:09,208 --> 00:25:10,958
That it was harder to stand out.

755
00:25:11,291 --> 00:25:12,500
Same thing happened with YouTube.

756
00:25:12,916 --> 00:25:14,000
Same thing happened with podcasts.

757
00:25:14,291 --> 00:25:15,625
When first, when the first couple of

758
00:25:15,625 --> 00:25:17,166
people came up with podcasts, like Joe

759
00:25:17,208 --> 00:25:19,666
Rogan, as much as you might hate the

760
00:25:19,666 --> 00:25:22,458
content that he puts out and him himself,

761
00:25:22,458 --> 00:25:24,916
I guess, uh, when he, he was one of the

762
00:25:24,916 --> 00:25:26,208
first people who started podcasting

763
00:25:26,208 --> 00:25:28,500
in like 2006, 2007, 2008.

764
00:25:29,375 --> 00:25:30,416
And he's continued to do that.

765
00:25:30,416 --> 00:25:32,208
Now he has been quite successful for a

766
00:25:32,208 --> 00:25:33,708
lot of different reasons and

767
00:25:33,708 --> 00:25:34,666
we don't have to get into those.

768
00:25:36,083 --> 00:25:39,208
But you know, he has been able to, like

769
00:25:39,208 --> 00:25:40,041
he started from the beginning.

770
00:25:40,041 --> 00:25:41,750
So he stood out and he has celebrities

771
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:43,083
and stuff like, so he stands out even

772
00:25:43,083 --> 00:25:45,208
more when I first came out with my

773
00:25:45,208 --> 00:25:48,291
podcast in 2015, I was a little late to

774
00:25:48,291 --> 00:25:50,000
the party because it had started in 2018.

775
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,541
There was a bit of a renaissance in 2014

776
00:25:51,541 --> 00:25:53,500
and 2012, and then it started to

777
00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:56,250
really grow as I started to go, I had way

778
00:25:56,250 --> 00:25:58,375
more listeners and downloads than I ever

779
00:25:58,375 --> 00:26:01,625
did before now with algorithms and

780
00:26:01,625 --> 00:26:02,375
everything like that, they may not have

781
00:26:02,416 --> 00:26:04,291
been like the perfect, you know, this,

782
00:26:04,416 --> 00:26:05,833
the most accurate number.

783
00:26:07,041 --> 00:26:08,625
But over time I was accruing a lot of

784
00:26:08,625 --> 00:26:09,416
people because not a lot,

785
00:26:09,416 --> 00:26:10,333
there weren't a lot of ocean

786
00:26:10,458 --> 00:26:12,083
podcasts. Now I was going around

787
00:26:12,083 --> 00:26:13,250
professing, like people

788
00:26:13,250 --> 00:26:14,416
should start an ocean podcast and

789
00:26:14,416 --> 00:26:16,375
your own voice and your own way and

790
00:26:16,375 --> 00:26:18,041
discuss what you want. And

791
00:26:18,041 --> 00:26:19,000
more and more people started

792
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,833
and more and more people just podcasts in

793
00:26:20,833 --> 00:26:23,208
general, just balloon, like there are

794
00:26:23,208 --> 00:26:25,083
over 4 million podcasts.

795
00:26:25,083 --> 00:26:26,458
The last stat that I heard a few years

796
00:26:26,458 --> 00:26:28,666
ago. Now only 400,000 of

797
00:26:28,666 --> 00:26:29,833
those have put out episodes in the

798
00:26:29,875 --> 00:26:33,041
last 90 days, but there are 4 million. So

799
00:26:33,041 --> 00:26:34,791
there's so many podcasts, it's hard to

800
00:26:34,791 --> 00:26:35,500
compete with all those

801
00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:38,291
podcasts and all of the variety of topics

802
00:26:38,291 --> 00:26:41,583
that are out there. So, you know, the,

803
00:26:41,583 --> 00:26:43,250
the, it's difficult to get ahead,

804
00:26:43,250 --> 00:26:45,583
it's difficult to stand out and you, you

805
00:26:45,583 --> 00:26:47,500
have to continue to do it in consistency

806
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:49,250
and get making sure your show is

807
00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:51,583
better and better and, and keep continue

808
00:26:51,583 --> 00:26:53,500
to work on it, continue to reach new

809
00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:55,000
audiences and everything like that.

810
00:26:55,375 --> 00:26:57,250
But the real thought of it is, is it was,

811
00:26:57,625 --> 00:26:59,916
you know, you eventually have to compete

812
00:26:59,916 --> 00:27:01,541
with everything and you have

813
00:27:01,541 --> 00:27:02,875
to, in the longevity of your

814
00:27:02,875 --> 00:27:04,333
podcast, you have to outwork everybody

815
00:27:04,333 --> 00:27:07,041
else that that's going to give up because

816
00:27:07,041 --> 00:27:07,791
they're not getting the

817
00:27:07,791 --> 00:27:08,708
traction that they want.

818
00:27:08,916 --> 00:27:10,625
Because it's not about the listeners. I

819
00:27:10,625 --> 00:27:12,125
mean, I always do it for the listeners.

820
00:27:12,541 --> 00:27:13,750
Don't get me wrong. But

821
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:14,875
it's not all about how many

822
00:27:14,916 --> 00:27:16,000
listeners you have. It's about the

823
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,958
quality of listeners. Right. Now I have

824
00:27:18,958 --> 00:27:20,666
had people, sponsors who have come on

825
00:27:20,666 --> 00:27:21,375
this podcast, talked

826
00:27:21,416 --> 00:27:22,625
about their organizations and everything

827
00:27:22,625 --> 00:27:24,125
like that. They would pay me to come on

828
00:27:24,125 --> 00:27:28,250
to do regular, you know, series. And I

829
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:29,500
said, look, I don't have like a huge

830
00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:30,666
numbers. And they said, Andrew, it's not

831
00:27:30,666 --> 00:27:32,125
about the numbers. It's about the type of

832
00:27:32,125 --> 00:27:33,791
people that are on the podcast. It's,

833
00:27:33,791 --> 00:27:35,250
it's your audience that makes up

834
00:27:35,250 --> 00:27:38,041
that are engaged listeners, right? Your

835
00:27:38,041 --> 00:27:40,541
audience, a lot of them are into the

836
00:27:40,541 --> 00:27:42,250
business themselves. Plus those who

837
00:27:42,250 --> 00:27:43,916
aren't and they want to know more. Your

838
00:27:43,916 --> 00:27:46,750
audience is just quality audience. And

839
00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:48,416
that's what we're willing to pay to get

840
00:27:48,416 --> 00:27:51,458
in front of. And that's great. Right. But

841
00:27:51,458 --> 00:27:52,750
it's, it's like the hard work that

842
00:27:52,750 --> 00:27:54,375
goes through it. And then it's the, it's

843
00:27:54,375 --> 00:27:55,875
not just about the listeners in the

844
00:27:55,875 --> 00:27:57,083
audience. It's about the opportunities

845
00:27:57,083 --> 00:27:58,916
that come from who's listening in

846
00:27:58,916 --> 00:28:01,083
the audience and who has that foresight

847
00:28:01,083 --> 00:28:03,458
to be like, Oh, like Andrew's great. We

848
00:28:03,458 --> 00:28:05,041
really like, we'd love him for him to do

849
00:28:05,041 --> 00:28:06,208
this kind of stuff. We'd love

850
00:28:06,208 --> 00:28:07,958
him to do this kind of stuff. Now I've

851
00:28:07,958 --> 00:28:09,708
talked to people about various projects

852
00:28:09,708 --> 00:28:11,208
here and there and doing all this kind of

853
00:28:11,208 --> 00:28:12,208
stuff. Great opportunities

854
00:28:12,291 --> 00:28:13,750
that never amount to anything because

855
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:16,250
that happens, you know, things change and

856
00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:18,291
that's okay. But I've, I would

857
00:28:18,291 --> 00:28:19,333
never had those opportunities

858
00:28:19,375 --> 00:28:20,750
presented to me if I didn't get in front

859
00:28:20,750 --> 00:28:22,708
of this microphone and I didn't speak to

860
00:28:22,708 --> 00:28:25,375
you right now. And so if you're, if

861
00:28:25,375 --> 00:28:26,375
you're looking to get

862
00:28:26,375 --> 00:28:28,166
in to marine science and conservation,

863
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,791
you have to be willing to put in the

864
00:28:30,791 --> 00:28:34,166
work, whether you want a job or not, or

865
00:28:34,166 --> 00:28:34,750
whether you think you

866
00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:36,208
deserve a job or not, or you have all the

867
00:28:36,208 --> 00:28:38,750
qualifications, get above and beyond,

868
00:28:39,166 --> 00:28:40,666
make sure you stand out.

869
00:28:40,666 --> 00:28:42,083
Because there's a lot of

870
00:28:42,125 --> 00:28:43,083
different ways you can stand out. It

871
00:28:43,083 --> 00:28:44,208
doesn't have to be content creation. I'm

872
00:28:44,208 --> 00:28:45,041
using that as an example

873
00:28:45,041 --> 00:28:47,166
because I mean, look at the theme.

874
00:28:47,166 --> 00:28:49,500
It's my 11th year of publishing podcasts,

875
00:28:49,791 --> 00:28:53,583
but like that's the difference. Get out

876
00:28:53,583 --> 00:28:55,333
ahead and be careful

877
00:28:55,333 --> 00:28:56,333
what you talk about too,

878
00:28:56,333 --> 00:28:57,500
because if you get out ahead for the

879
00:28:57,500 --> 00:28:59,333
wrong reasons, nobody's going to want to

880
00:28:59,333 --> 00:29:00,541
hire you. So be careful of

881
00:29:00,541 --> 00:29:03,291
that. But if you do it properly

882
00:29:03,625 --> 00:29:04,958
and you get out ahead, whether you're

883
00:29:04,958 --> 00:29:07,041
doing a project or you do a couple of

884
00:29:07,041 --> 00:29:09,625
projects, like Andrew Thaler builds the

885
00:29:09,625 --> 00:29:11,125
open CTD, just released a

886
00:29:11,125 --> 00:29:13,041
new version of the open CTD.

887
00:29:13,916 --> 00:29:15,666
You know, like Angelo Villagomas had a

888
00:29:15,666 --> 00:29:18,291
blog that was, that was people were

889
00:29:18,291 --> 00:29:20,208
reading it from halfway across the world,

890
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,125
standing out with great content.

891
00:29:23,166 --> 00:29:25,875
You know, David Shippen was on Twitter

892
00:29:25,875 --> 00:29:27,583
and talking like about sharks and

893
00:29:27,583 --> 00:29:31,500
everything like that, you know, Melissa

894
00:29:31,500 --> 00:29:34,208
Marquez, social media, like Queen in

895
00:29:34,208 --> 00:29:36,916
terms of what the content was, you know,

896
00:29:36,916 --> 00:29:38,833
getting on National Geographic, getting

897
00:29:38,833 --> 00:29:40,375
on Shark Week, all that kind of stuff.

898
00:29:41,583 --> 00:29:44,291
All these, like Diva Amman, same thing,

899
00:29:44,291 --> 00:29:46,000
National Geographic and doing all these

900
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,958
shows, they just, the talent they come

901
00:29:48,958 --> 00:29:51,500
with and the willing that they're willing

902
00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:53,166
to, the fact that they're willing to put

903
00:29:53,166 --> 00:29:55,750
themselves out there and put the work in

904
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:59,875
to do all this kind of stuff allows them

905
00:29:59,875 --> 00:30:01,416
to get the opportunities, puts them in a

906
00:30:01,416 --> 00:30:02,583
place to get those opportunities.

907
00:30:04,125 --> 00:30:05,625
So for a lot of people who are trying to

908
00:30:05,625 --> 00:30:08,291
get jobs out of university or they're

909
00:30:08,291 --> 00:30:09,500
trying to get jobs, like it's been a

910
00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:10,750
couple of years since they haven't been

911
00:30:10,750 --> 00:30:12,583
able to find anything, don't give up.

912
00:30:14,041 --> 00:30:15,500
Right. But come up with ways to stand

913
00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:18,458
out, network, invest in going to

914
00:30:18,458 --> 00:30:20,333
conferences. I know it's expensive. I

915
00:30:20,333 --> 00:30:22,708
know it can be expensive. Invest, go with

916
00:30:22,708 --> 00:30:24,500
a friend to make it cheaper, to stay in a

917
00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:26,625
place where you can both stay and go and

918
00:30:26,625 --> 00:30:28,000
invest in that time.

919
00:30:28,041 --> 00:30:30,083
Go meet people face to face, have

920
00:30:30,083 --> 00:30:31,708
conversations if you're looking for a

921
00:30:31,708 --> 00:30:33,458
job, you're looking for employers. Don't

922
00:30:33,458 --> 00:30:36,125
go asking for a job and asking, what do

923
00:30:36,125 --> 00:30:37,791
you do? What do you do? This is what I do

924
00:30:37,791 --> 00:30:40,791
and network your butt off and make those

925
00:30:40,791 --> 00:30:42,166
connections and build on those

926
00:30:42,166 --> 00:30:43,583
relationships when you get home.

927
00:30:44,208 --> 00:30:45,875
Reach out to them on LinkedIn, on social

928
00:30:45,875 --> 00:30:48,416
media, via email, help them out with

929
00:30:48,416 --> 00:30:49,958
anything they have. Work some free

930
00:30:49,958 --> 00:30:50,958
projects every once in

931
00:30:50,958 --> 00:30:51,791
a while if you need to.

932
00:30:52,041 --> 00:30:53,833
I remember doing statistical analysis for

933
00:30:53,833 --> 00:30:55,791
people that they probably had no business

934
00:30:55,791 --> 00:30:58,125
doing statistical analysis for, but they

935
00:30:58,125 --> 00:30:58,958
needed the help and I

936
00:30:58,958 --> 00:30:59,791
would help them out.

937
00:31:01,125 --> 00:31:03,125
You have to set yourself apart from

938
00:31:03,125 --> 00:31:05,250
everybody else and you have to put

939
00:31:05,250 --> 00:31:06,458
yourself out there to show the

940
00:31:06,458 --> 00:31:07,500
work that you're going to do.

941
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,875
And people just don't get it this time.

942
00:31:12,250 --> 00:31:13,916
You can't come out in university and

943
00:31:13,916 --> 00:31:15,291
think that you deserve a job.

944
00:31:16,458 --> 00:31:18,041
Yes, you have a professional degree and

945
00:31:18,041 --> 00:31:19,416
you should be paid for the work that you

946
00:31:19,416 --> 00:31:22,208
do. I don't want to get caught into scams

947
00:31:22,208 --> 00:31:24,500
about paying for, you

948
00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:25,875
know, for experience.

949
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,416
You know, that's a business model that

950
00:31:28,416 --> 00:31:32,208
predates on a lot of young students and

951
00:31:32,208 --> 00:31:34,291
it excludes a lot of young students who

952
00:31:34,291 --> 00:31:35,958
do not have the money, including myself.

953
00:31:35,958 --> 00:31:37,166
I did not have the money to do that kind

954
00:31:37,166 --> 00:31:39,041
of stuff. I dreamt about doing it, but I

955
00:31:39,041 --> 00:31:39,291
didn't have the money.

956
00:31:39,333 --> 00:31:43,583
But you should be able to do that type of

957
00:31:43,583 --> 00:31:46,083
work and get paid for it. It's as harder

958
00:31:46,083 --> 00:31:48,166
to compete for that those jobs. You have

959
00:31:48,166 --> 00:31:50,125
to be ready. You have to consult with

960
00:31:50,125 --> 00:31:51,333
other marine biologists and

961
00:31:51,333 --> 00:31:53,000
conservationists of how did you get a

962
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,583
job? What the resume should look like?

963
00:31:54,583 --> 00:31:55,375
All this kind of stuff.

964
00:31:56,125 --> 00:31:57,750
But don't expect getting a job right out

965
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:58,291
of school. I don't care what your university says.

966
00:31:59,333 --> 00:32:02,916
There's no like mass retirement. That was

967
00:32:02,916 --> 00:32:05,375
that's been said since I was a student.

968
00:32:06,166 --> 00:32:07,375
Everybody was supposed to retire. The

969
00:32:07,375 --> 00:32:09,625
baby moos are supposed to retire. Oh, hit

970
00:32:09,625 --> 00:32:11,875
a recession. Nobody's retiring. Right.

971
00:32:11,875 --> 00:32:12,416
They need the money.

972
00:32:13,375 --> 00:32:14,583
You know, you got to go out and you got

973
00:32:14,583 --> 00:32:16,708
to work for that job. Your university

974
00:32:16,708 --> 00:32:19,791
career as much as it costs. Right. As

975
00:32:19,791 --> 00:32:21,541
much as hard of work you put in.

976
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,416
Everybody's putting in the same amount of

977
00:32:23,416 --> 00:32:25,083
work. Everybody deserves that type of

978
00:32:25,083 --> 00:32:26,291
job. How much more are you willing to do? Are you willing to do that?

979
00:32:27,333 --> 00:32:31,125
Are you willing to put a little bit of

980
00:32:31,125 --> 00:32:33,458
investment into a content creation studio

981
00:32:33,458 --> 00:32:36,083
or something like that? There are people

982
00:32:36,083 --> 00:32:37,708
out there that I admire that I respect

983
00:32:37,708 --> 00:32:39,500
that are young scientists, young

984
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:41,791
biologists, young conservationists who

985
00:32:41,791 --> 00:32:43,750
are on TikTok almost every day talking

986
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:45,500
and talking about their jobs, talking

987
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:46,708
about what they do, talking about what

988
00:32:46,708 --> 00:32:48,666
they want to do, doing education things

989
00:32:48,666 --> 00:32:50,500
on the beach, doing beach cleanups and

990
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:52,666
showing their journey and being very

991
00:32:52,666 --> 00:32:53,291
transparent and very real.

992
00:32:54,333 --> 00:32:56,875
And I admire respect the people. And when

993
00:32:56,875 --> 00:32:59,541
they get the opportunities, they may not

994
00:32:59,541 --> 00:33:00,583
have a huge following, but when they get

995
00:33:00,583 --> 00:33:01,875
the opportunities presented to them, they

996
00:33:01,875 --> 00:33:04,000
take them and they work at that and they

997
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,291
build that experience.

998
00:33:06,291 --> 00:33:08,041
So this is a long episode, 30 minutes. I

999
00:33:08,041 --> 00:33:11,250
apologize, but it's the 11th anniversary

1000
00:33:11,250 --> 00:33:13,416
of the podcast. It was actually

1001
00:33:13,416 --> 00:33:15,125
yesterday, if you're listening to this on

1002
00:33:15,125 --> 00:33:17,333
the 23rd, it was actually the 22nd. And I

1003
00:33:17,333 --> 00:33:19,666
just realized it to be honest. Time goes

1004
00:33:19,666 --> 00:33:21,458
fast. It's a busy time of year for me.

1005
00:33:22,041 --> 00:33:23,291
But yeah, this is great. I want to thank you for coming.

1006
00:33:23,333 --> 00:33:25,375
I want to thank you for listening to not

1007
00:33:25,375 --> 00:33:27,250
only this episode, but all the episodes

1008
00:33:27,250 --> 00:33:30,083
that you've listened to. This has been

1009
00:33:30,083 --> 00:33:31,875
like a real treat to be able to do this.

1010
00:33:31,875 --> 00:33:32,416
I'm going to continue

1011
00:33:32,416 --> 00:33:33,916
for 11 plus more years.

1012
00:33:34,291 --> 00:33:37,125
But this has been like a huge treat in

1013
00:33:37,125 --> 00:33:39,500
being able to bring this information to

1014
00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:43,000
you, to be able to for you to listen and

1015
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,375
with of my thoughts and my opinions and

1016
00:33:45,375 --> 00:33:46,291
the work that I'm doing.

1017
00:33:46,333 --> 00:33:49,375
You know, I really appreciate that work.

1018
00:33:49,375 --> 00:33:51,000
And if you appreciate it and you want to

1019
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,916
support it, you can do so by going to

1020
00:33:52,916 --> 00:33:55,875
speak up for blue.com slash Patreon. I've

1021
00:33:55,875 --> 00:33:57,333
revamped my Patreon page.

1022
00:33:57,958 --> 00:33:59,791
There's a couple of different, there's

1023
00:33:59,791 --> 00:34:01,958
only a couple of different tiers that you

1024
00:34:01,958 --> 00:34:03,791
can do. There's one where you just want

1025
00:34:03,791 --> 00:34:05,583
to support us as a producer, like for

1026
00:34:05,583 --> 00:34:07,875
producing the content, just support us as

1027
00:34:07,875 --> 00:34:08,291
a show. That's great.

1028
00:34:08,333 --> 00:34:10,291
Or if you want to do more, we can get

1029
00:34:10,291 --> 00:34:12,041
together. Once we get enough people, we

1030
00:34:12,041 --> 00:34:13,500
can get together like once a month, have

1031
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:15,083
discussions, talk about what I'm going to

1032
00:34:15,083 --> 00:34:17,208
be doing lately, all that kind of stuff.

1033
00:34:17,208 --> 00:34:18,833
I'm going to be sharing some things to

1034
00:34:18,833 --> 00:34:20,250
new episodes that I'm

1035
00:34:20,250 --> 00:34:21,333
coming up for ocean decoded.

1036
00:34:21,333 --> 00:34:23,291
Like I post on YouTube. I post on these

1037
00:34:23,291 --> 00:34:26,708
podcast apps. I post, I do newsletters. I

1038
00:34:26,708 --> 00:34:29,291
do tweets. I do TikToks. I do Instagram.

1039
00:34:29,791 --> 00:34:31,666
I got my content machine. And if you want

1040
00:34:31,666 --> 00:34:33,625
to support that, that would be great. I

1041
00:34:33,625 --> 00:34:35,333
really appreciate that. And of course, if

1042
00:34:35,333 --> 00:34:36,541
you want to be a part of that, you can go

1043
00:34:36,541 --> 00:34:37,208
a little higher,

1044
00:34:37,208 --> 00:34:38,291
support a little higher rate.

1045
00:34:38,333 --> 00:34:41,416
But but really the support that you give

1046
00:34:41,416 --> 00:34:44,125
me by listening to this episode is

1047
00:34:44,125 --> 00:34:46,000
absolutely phenomenal. If you want to do

1048
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,041
that more, you want to go higher. That's

1049
00:34:48,041 --> 00:34:50,041
speak up for blue dot com slash Patreon.

1050
00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:52,125
But I want to thank you so much for

1051
00:34:52,125 --> 00:34:54,291
listening to this episode of the How to

1052
00:34:54,291 --> 00:34:56,208
Protect the Ocean podcast. Have a great

1053
00:34:56,208 --> 00:34:57,083
day. We'll talk to you next

1054
00:34:57,083 --> 00:34:58,416
time and happy conservation.