Why Ocean Nonprofits Keep Struggling to Raise Money

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Many nonprofit

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organizations struggle getting funding.

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And a lot of the times it

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has to do with who they target

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and how they communicate to

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that target audience of donors.

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This is the How to

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Protect the Ocean podcast

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where you get your

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weekly ocean news update.

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If you want to stay updated on how to

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succeed in conserving the ocean,

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whether you're a

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scientist, conservationist,

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or just someone who

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wants to protect the ocean,

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So you don't miss next week's episodes

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and every weekday that we

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publish today's episode.

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We're going to be talking to James

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Meisner, who is a nonprofit consultant

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who helps a lot of nonprofits

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make sure they succeed and are able to do

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and accomplish the mission that they are

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set out to accomplish

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including ocean

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conservation nonprofit organizations.

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And this is something that I have been

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wanting to do for a while

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because we struggle as ocean

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conservationists, we

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struggle to look for funding.

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There are more organizations than there

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ever have been to or

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trying to protect the ocean.

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And there's not enough

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funding to go around.

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So applying for grants doesn't always

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work for foundations or other donors that

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put together grants.

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And the thing is, is when you get a

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grant, that's great.

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But if you put all your eggs in one

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basket and try to get grants,

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you're not always getting what you want.

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Or sometimes if you don't get that grant,

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then you're not successful in being able

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to accomplish the work that you're doing.

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And many people have to shut down.

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We are not in easy times folks.

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Money is not just coming at the wazoo for

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many people and we need to be able to

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target the right people

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to get those donations.

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So on today's episode, we are going to be

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talking to James Meisner, who is a

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nonprofit consultant

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who's here to give us tips,

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give you tips on how to succeed in

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raising money and raising

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money from specific donors,

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how to find those donors and also how to

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communicate to those donors.

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So you make sure that you are able to

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accomplish your mission.

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Here is the interview with James Meisner

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in joy and I will talk to you after.

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Hey James, welcome to the how

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to protect the ocean podcast.

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Are you ready to talk

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about all things nonprofit?

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Andrew, I cannot wait.

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Let's get rolling.

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I love it.

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I love the energy.

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This is great.

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This is awesome.

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One, I love when I got to

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talk to another fellow podcaster.

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So we're going to talk

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about your podcast book.

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We're really going to dive in to

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nonprofits these days and on this episode

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because these days we have seen an

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explosiveness of nonprofits as you know,

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finding a job in marine conservation has

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become a lot more difficult.

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A lot of people are like, you know what?

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I'm going to start my own thing and I'm

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going to see where this can go and a lot

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of times they people want to go the

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nonprofit route, get

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donations and so forth.

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But it's not easy to manage a business

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like a nonprofit, especially these days.

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There is not as much funding as there

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used to be and more competition for that

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funding for marine conservation work.

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And so James, you sent me an email and

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said, hey, you know, would you like to

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talk about nonprofits?

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At first I was like, I'm not sure if this

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fits the show, but then I remember so

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many people that I've interviewed have

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struggled with like figuring out the

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business aspect of it.

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The admin stuff.

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They just want to do the science.

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They want to do the conservation part,

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but it is a business and

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it's a difficult business.

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I navigate if you don't

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know what you're doing.

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So I was like, you know what, James, this

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would be great if you come on

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the podcast and talk about it.

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So we're going to do all of that.

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But before we do, James, let's get to

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know you a little bit more.

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I can't just let us know

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who you are and what you do.

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Yeah, I'm James and I have been in the

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nonprofit space my entire career.

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Okay, I started in the humanitarian space

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and one of the things that was

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interesting is when you work in the

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humanitarian space, you realize that the

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rate of natural disasters and the

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severity of those disasters.

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Is increasing.

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Right now you are listening know this not

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everybody knows it, but I'm preaching to

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the choir right now and you

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know, spent so many years.

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Doing that and I absolutely loved it.

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There's very few people who love like

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business development and

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fundraising and not right.

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That's I'm one of them and then I left my

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day job to start a consulting firm.

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Environmentalism and conservation is one

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of our verticals because I love it.

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I love oceans.

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I love hiking anything outside is kind of

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right up my my alley.

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So that that's who I am Andrew.

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I love it.

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I love it.

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You know, it's like I think it does take

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a certain type of person to be able to do

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the job that you do because you know,

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you're helping other organizations do

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great things and I think the value in

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that is you can help a lot of different

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organizations which which I love right

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get to where they want to go so that they

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can actually scaling your impact just by

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helping out each and every organization.

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So so I love that and like so how do you

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find working like the differences in

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working with like a humanities type of

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organization compared to something like

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in the natural sciences or conservation

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front? Yeah, that is a great question and

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I think it gets right to the heart of why

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you wanted to do this.

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It's very, very, very hard to be a

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conservation

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environmental organization right now.

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And I think there are a

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few key reasons for that.

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Number one, there's a lot

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of money out there still.

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Okay, give it to

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nonprofits increased 15% in 2025.

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Really?

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It didn't really.

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However, okay, you have to

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look at where it increased.

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Giving is almost a $600 billion industry.

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Okay, Americans give

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nearly $600 billion a year.

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It's astronomically large number last

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year as things in the political sphere

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happened the shuttering of USAID Medicare

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Medicaid kind of changes.

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Yeah.

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Food stamps happening.

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People had to make really hard decisions

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and I saw this in tons of

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environmental organizations.

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Am I going to give more to help this

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group that lost their EPA or

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National Park or Noah Grant?

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Or am I going to give to the kid that

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can't get food down the street?

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And nine times out of

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10, they chose the human.

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That is the hardest thing in

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environmental fundraising

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and in business development.

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Making the connection the case not oceans

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for ocean sake, even though you and I

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would say oceans for ocean sake is great.

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Okay. Yeah, for sure.

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Yeah, but donors need to see the

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connection to humans.

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They need to see the connection to people

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because that is what's going to cause

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them to give to you when there's a

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crowded landscape out there.

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So making that human connection is the

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single hardest thing, I think, for an

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environmental nonprofit right now.

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Yeah, I see what you mean.

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And I think a lot of organizations are

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turning and even science really are

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turning towards that human factor.

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We're starting to see scientists plan out

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their studies with local communities as

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it would benefit them.

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So maybe some of the questions that some

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of the scientists have that are not from

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a specific area when they go in and they

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start planning their

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problems or their studies.

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They actually plan it with the

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communities now because they find that

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more beneficial because it has more of an

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application, which is great.

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Like that's what we want. We don't want

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the parachute science.

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I'm wondering if that tie in will help

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fundraise for those organizations.

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I mean, because you're actually putting

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in like, hey, we're trying to figure out

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this problem that this local community is

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having, whether it be fisheries, whether

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it be sea level rise or climate change or

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anything regarding

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the ocean conservation.

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I wonder if that would probably help is

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that tie in to the human aspect to get

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more funding for those projects, which

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are still equally as important because it

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might feed an entire village of people

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compared to, you know, like a one child

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feeding many children kind of thing.

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I think we have to start seeing that from

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a conservation perspective. It's not just

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ocean for ocean's sake. It's ocean for

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human's sake because we feel like we fell

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and you can tell me because you're not in

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the ocean space as much, but I feel like

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we fail as conservation as a

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communicators as a whole to really tie in

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why we should be protecting

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the ocean for the humans sake.

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The number one thing that most of this

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people listen to this are scientists,

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right? Okay. Yes. I'm going to model how

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scientists can answer this question

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because stories are really important. I

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want to talk to you

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about North Bay education.

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North Bay education is an environmental

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organization. It's a conservation

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organization based on the shores of the

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Chesapeake Bay. Okay. So not ocean, but

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ocean adjacent. It's saltwater.

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Okay. So it's a very important watershed

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in the United States. Okay. Full of, you

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know, marine scientists there. People

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care about the Chesapeake. You know, we

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00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,125
all in the DC region, Baltimore, you

279
00:09:09,125 --> 00:09:12,583
know, live here. What they did is they

280
00:09:12,583 --> 00:09:15,041
actually built an outdoor school in their

281
00:09:15,041 --> 00:09:18,958
conservation area. Okay. So they still

282
00:09:18,958 --> 00:09:20,833
are doing all of their conservation.

283
00:09:21,333 --> 00:09:22,625
They're doing wetland protections.

284
00:09:22,916 --> 00:09:24,625
They're doing studies there. Okay.

285
00:09:25,250 --> 00:09:28,250
But they bring 400 kids in a week and

286
00:09:28,250 --> 00:09:30,791
they, the kids help with the studies. The

287
00:09:30,791 --> 00:09:33,458
kids participate and what you know what

288
00:09:33,458 --> 00:09:35,375
that did all the kids parents cared about

289
00:09:35,375 --> 00:09:38,000
it. The government cared about it. Oh,

290
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,541
cause like the kids you're doing the Bay

291
00:09:39,541 --> 00:09:41,708
now. This is the Bay. Yeah. We know it

292
00:09:41,708 --> 00:09:43,000
needs to be cleaned up, but the kids

293
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,000
doing the Bay. Oh my goodness. We're all

294
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:45,875
behind it right now.

295
00:10:15,916 --> 00:10:16,500
Okay. And it's important to communicate

296
00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:20,458
the benefit to people in it. Right. Even

297
00:10:20,458 --> 00:10:23,625
if the benefit is intangible. Hey, last

298
00:10:23,625 --> 00:10:25,333
time we did a study like this, we

299
00:10:25,333 --> 00:10:28,958
discovered XYZ thing would not think is

300
00:10:28,958 --> 00:10:31,750
awesome. But hey, we took that XYZ thing

301
00:10:31,750 --> 00:10:33,708
and we turned it into this that has

302
00:10:33,708 --> 00:10:36,208
massive implications for humans. Okay.

303
00:10:36,791 --> 00:10:39,583
Um, bringing that human piece in, um, as

304
00:10:39,583 --> 00:10:42,000
unpopular with, you know, scientists as

305
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,583
that might be, you know, who love the

306
00:10:43,583 --> 00:10:44,875
ocean, ocean sake like we all do.

307
00:10:44,916 --> 00:10:46,166
you all do, it's gonna

308
00:10:46,166 --> 00:10:47,291
help you raise more money.

309
00:10:47,291 --> 00:10:47,958
And that's what you need

310
00:10:47,958 --> 00:10:49,083
to keep doing the science.

311
00:10:49,875 --> 00:10:50,583
Cause the government is

312
00:10:50,583 --> 00:10:51,666
taking that money away,

313
00:10:51,666 --> 00:10:52,416
you know, right now.

314
00:10:53,291 --> 00:10:53,500
100%.

315
00:10:53,958 --> 00:10:54,791
And you know, it's

316
00:10:54,791 --> 00:10:55,583
something that's always in.

317
00:10:55,583 --> 00:10:57,000
So you would say probably

318
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,333
tying it to that human aspect

319
00:10:59,541 --> 00:11:00,791
with the human benefit

320
00:11:00,791 --> 00:11:02,625
would be probably the number one

321
00:11:02,625 --> 00:11:04,208
thing a nonprofit, like a notion

322
00:11:04,208 --> 00:11:05,166
conservation nonprofit

323
00:11:05,416 --> 00:11:06,500
can do, right?

324
00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:08,250
Is to tie that to the nonprofit.

325
00:11:09,333 --> 00:11:10,750
To increase funding and to

326
00:11:10,750 --> 00:11:11,916
get that side of funding,

327
00:11:11,916 --> 00:11:12,958
obviously you have to apply

328
00:11:12,958 --> 00:11:14,541
a lot of the times to grants

329
00:11:14,708 --> 00:11:15,916
and things like that.

330
00:11:16,625 --> 00:11:19,041
In today's world, you know, where like,

331
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,166
from a consultant point of view, like,

332
00:11:21,541 --> 00:11:22,500
how do you,

333
00:11:24,125 --> 00:11:25,250
you know, tell

334
00:11:25,250 --> 00:11:27,708
organizations or advise organizations

335
00:11:28,208 --> 00:11:30,625
on how to approach fundraising?

336
00:11:31,083 --> 00:11:32,458
Is it just like find as

337
00:11:32,458 --> 00:11:33,375
many grants as you can

338
00:11:33,375 --> 00:11:34,708
and just apply to them all?

339
00:11:35,083 --> 00:11:36,375
You know, and it's hopefully one of them,

340
00:11:36,375 --> 00:11:38,625
one or two stick or many more.

341
00:11:39,083 --> 00:11:41,250
Or do you start saying, hey,

342
00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:43,250
you need to be aware in the,

343
00:11:43,625 --> 00:11:44,333
like you need to have

344
00:11:44,333 --> 00:11:45,541
an awareness campaign.

345
00:11:45,541 --> 00:11:46,541
People need to follow you

346
00:11:46,541 --> 00:11:48,541
on social media and be like,

347
00:11:48,541 --> 00:11:49,250
you know, have a big

348
00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:50,625
following so that when the funders

349
00:11:50,833 --> 00:11:52,166
go look and like, oh yeah,

350
00:11:52,166 --> 00:11:53,166
actually people really like

351
00:11:53,166 --> 00:11:53,875
this organization.

352
00:11:54,208 --> 00:11:55,291
So let's find out where do

353
00:11:55,291 --> 00:11:56,875
they begin when they start

354
00:11:56,875 --> 00:11:57,458
looking like they

355
00:11:57,458 --> 00:11:58,416
started an organization,

356
00:11:58,625 --> 00:11:59,875
they have a topic they want it.

357
00:12:00,208 --> 00:12:01,166
It's a really good thing.

358
00:12:01,166 --> 00:12:02,208
It has a human benefit.

359
00:12:02,875 --> 00:12:03,916
Where do they begin?

360
00:12:04,375 --> 00:12:05,541
You know, in terms of

361
00:12:05,541 --> 00:12:06,916
getting that money so that they can

362
00:12:06,916 --> 00:12:07,791
actually do the work

363
00:12:07,791 --> 00:12:08,708
that they want to do.

364
00:12:08,708 --> 00:12:08,916
Yeah.

365
00:12:09,666 --> 00:12:11,041
The answer is it's not linear.

366
00:12:11,375 --> 00:12:12,708
There's multiple starting points.

367
00:12:14,083 --> 00:12:15,041
Fundraising is almost

368
00:12:15,041 --> 00:12:15,916
like a spider's web.

369
00:12:16,166 --> 00:12:17,166
A spider does not

370
00:12:17,166 --> 00:12:19,208
catch its prey by just one,

371
00:12:19,208 --> 00:12:20,041
you know, part of the web.

372
00:12:20,416 --> 00:12:22,000
It weaves it all together.

373
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:22,708
So there's a lot of

374
00:12:22,708 --> 00:12:23,958
different things that have to happen

375
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,541
simultaneously for

376
00:12:25,541 --> 00:12:27,916
people to become fundraisable.

377
00:12:28,166 --> 00:12:29,000
I like to call it.

378
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:29,666
Right, right.

379
00:12:29,875 --> 00:12:31,208
Number one is just what's your

380
00:12:31,208 --> 00:12:32,541
organization's story?

381
00:12:34,041 --> 00:12:35,166
The human brain is

382
00:12:35,166 --> 00:12:37,375
designed to resonate with stories

383
00:12:38,125 --> 00:12:40,291
and to really be bad with data and facts.

384
00:12:40,750 --> 00:12:42,625
Unless they are embedded in a story.

385
00:12:43,458 --> 00:12:43,666
Yeah.

386
00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:46,041
What is the story that your

387
00:12:46,041 --> 00:12:47,458
organization wants to tell?

388
00:12:47,875 --> 00:12:48,625
I don't care if you're

389
00:12:48,625 --> 00:12:49,916
going after government grants,

390
00:12:50,458 --> 00:12:51,541
private foundation grants,

391
00:12:51,916 --> 00:12:53,375
major gifts, monthly donors.

392
00:12:53,666 --> 00:12:56,000
You have to have a story to tell because

393
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,875
the person on the other side

394
00:12:58,458 --> 00:13:00,375
is a story motivated person.

395
00:13:00,791 --> 00:13:01,416
Okay, so the first thing

396
00:13:01,416 --> 00:13:02,666
is just defining your story.

397
00:13:02,666 --> 00:13:03,500
Why do you exist?

398
00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:05,458
What is your brand story

399
00:13:05,458 --> 00:13:06,500
that you're trying to tell?

400
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,833
The second is relationships.

401
00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:11,208
Okay, people give to other

402
00:13:11,208 --> 00:13:15,416
people in this past 18 months

403
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:18,166
with the traditional federal funding

404
00:13:18,166 --> 00:13:20,291
structures kind of having been decimated.

405
00:13:21,625 --> 00:13:22,708
A lot of times you're going

406
00:13:22,708 --> 00:13:24,041
after a private foundation.

407
00:13:24,958 --> 00:13:26,458
There are some private foundations out

408
00:13:26,458 --> 00:13:27,083
there that just care

409
00:13:27,083 --> 00:13:28,041
about one issue area.

410
00:13:28,041 --> 00:13:29,250
They are ocean foundations.

411
00:13:29,958 --> 00:13:31,166
But more often than not, it's a

412
00:13:31,166 --> 00:13:32,708
foundation that cares about 10 things.

413
00:13:33,416 --> 00:13:35,166
They care about the geographic proximity

414
00:13:35,166 --> 00:13:36,625
of the family or the business

415
00:13:36,625 --> 00:13:37,500
that started the foundation.

416
00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:40,250
They care about environmentalism.

417
00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:41,916
They care about at risk youth.

418
00:13:42,125 --> 00:13:43,416
They care about anti trafficking.

419
00:13:43,625 --> 00:13:44,958
They care about these different things.

420
00:13:45,208 --> 00:13:45,416
Okay.

421
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,333
So just taking all of the

422
00:13:48,333 --> 00:13:49,833
good science that you have

423
00:13:49,833 --> 00:13:51,166
and throwing it into a

424
00:13:51,166 --> 00:13:53,000
comprehensive, you know, proposal

425
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,791
isn't going to get the job done.

426
00:13:55,458 --> 00:13:57,166
Build relationships with them.

427
00:13:57,166 --> 00:13:58,000
Get to know them.

428
00:13:58,291 --> 00:14:00,541
Ask tons of open-ended questions about

429
00:14:00,541 --> 00:14:01,833
the things in the world

430
00:14:01,833 --> 00:14:03,625
that they are trying to

431
00:14:03,625 --> 00:14:05,500
make right or bring about.

432
00:14:05,541 --> 00:14:09,583
And then that allows you to position your

433
00:14:09,583 --> 00:14:11,458
proposal in a way that gives

434
00:14:11,458 --> 00:14:13,083
it greater success of landing.

435
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:15,916
In the private funding space, and this

436
00:14:15,916 --> 00:14:17,125
has been true before.

437
00:14:17,416 --> 00:14:18,208
All the government stuff

438
00:14:18,208 --> 00:14:19,208
happened this past year.

439
00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:22,250
But in the professional private funding

440
00:14:22,250 --> 00:14:25,416
space, they had seen a 10x increase

441
00:14:25,541 --> 00:14:27,208
in the number of grant

442
00:14:27,208 --> 00:14:28,541
applications they were receiving.

443
00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:30,166
That's a lot.

444
00:14:30,833 --> 00:14:33,041
This past year, they saw a hundred x

445
00:14:33,041 --> 00:14:34,041
increase in the number

446
00:14:34,041 --> 00:14:34,500
of private applications

447
00:14:34,541 --> 00:14:36,458
they were receiving. Okay.

448
00:14:36,791 --> 00:14:38,333
Everybody's state and federal funding

449
00:14:38,333 --> 00:14:39,291
kind of dried up, went

450
00:14:39,291 --> 00:14:40,291
away, became at risk.

451
00:14:40,916 --> 00:14:43,083
And people are just adopting the

452
00:14:43,083 --> 00:14:45,750
the pray and spray approach.

453
00:14:46,708 --> 00:14:47,500
Foundation application.

454
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:48,333
Foundation application.

455
00:14:48,583 --> 00:14:50,125
Don't do that. Okay.

456
00:14:50,125 --> 00:14:52,791
It's just clogging up the system and your

457
00:14:52,791 --> 00:14:53,500
chances of getting

458
00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:54,875
that are really narrow.

459
00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:55,708
Okay.

460
00:14:56,166 --> 00:14:56,625
So find

461
00:14:56,625 --> 00:14:59,458
five, six, seven, ten foundations that

462
00:14:59,458 --> 00:15:01,166
you think are a great fit for you

463
00:15:01,166 --> 00:15:02,375
and go after them.

464
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,500
The other thing I would say, and this is

465
00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:07,791
harder in the science space, okay,

466
00:15:07,791 --> 00:15:08,875
because everybody kind of

467
00:15:08,875 --> 00:15:10,333
wants to follow a set process.

468
00:15:11,083 --> 00:15:12,333
Major donors, which

469
00:15:12,333 --> 00:15:13,375
don't have a set process.

470
00:15:13,375 --> 00:15:14,875
It's all about relationships, getting to

471
00:15:14,875 --> 00:15:16,791
know them, working on their timeline.

472
00:15:17,458 --> 00:15:19,500
They are still the stickiest thing you

473
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:20,208
can do in fundraising.

474
00:15:20,541 --> 00:15:22,083
They are the most sustainable thing.

475
00:15:22,083 --> 00:15:23,833
Once you get a major donor who cares

476
00:15:23,833 --> 00:15:25,041
about your work, they're going to stick

477
00:15:25,041 --> 00:15:26,416
with you if you do a good job.

478
00:15:26,791 --> 00:15:28,541
Forever and ever. Amen. Okay.

479
00:15:28,583 --> 00:15:30,833
So I know why people go after foundations

480
00:15:30,833 --> 00:15:32,583
because it's big dollars fast.

481
00:15:33,291 --> 00:15:35,833
But going after individuals, especially

482
00:15:35,833 --> 00:15:38,250
those that live in the areas in and

483
00:15:38,250 --> 00:15:40,500
around where you're working, are going to

484
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:42,750
be probably the longer term play.

485
00:15:43,041 --> 00:15:44,333
Take longer to get there.

486
00:15:44,333 --> 00:15:45,083
So I understand why

487
00:15:45,083 --> 00:15:46,291
people get foundations first.

488
00:15:55,583 --> 00:15:56,500
I think in terms of differences from

489
00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:59,791
these large foundations money and these

490
00:15:59,791 --> 00:16:02,125
local individual type money.

491
00:16:02,333 --> 00:16:05,250
So when I'm picturing, and I don't have a

492
00:16:05,250 --> 00:16:07,125
lot of experience in the nonprofit area,

493
00:16:07,583 --> 00:16:08,500
especially in terms of fundraising.

494
00:16:09,208 --> 00:16:13,500
But I think of a foundation that can give

495
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:15,000
grants anywhere from

496
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,333
like 10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000.

497
00:16:17,333 --> 00:16:19,291
Some are longer term grants, like 100,

498
00:16:19,291 --> 00:16:21,000
200,000, depending on

499
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:21,583
what you're looking at.

500
00:16:21,625 --> 00:16:24,708
But individuals, you know, depending on

501
00:16:24,708 --> 00:16:26,333
what locality you're in,

502
00:16:26,583 --> 00:16:28,000
that'll probably make a difference.

503
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,708
But you're looking at probably per person

504
00:16:29,708 --> 00:16:31,750
is probably like maybe 20 bucks, 50

505
00:16:31,750 --> 00:16:33,416
bucks, you know, per person.

506
00:16:33,416 --> 00:16:34,916
Oh, no, I'm talking seven bigger gifts.

507
00:16:35,916 --> 00:16:37,541
Oh, you're talking about big.

508
00:16:37,541 --> 00:16:38,750
I'm talking about big money.

509
00:16:38,750 --> 00:16:41,666
Okay, the ocean is like 70% of the world.

510
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,958
Okay, guys, don't. Yeah, like don't set

511
00:16:43,958 --> 00:16:45,791
your sights on 20 bucks.

512
00:16:45,791 --> 00:16:48,291
Like go after the big. Okay. We only live

513
00:16:48,291 --> 00:16:49,458
and survive because

514
00:16:49,458 --> 00:16:50,583
oceans are healthy. Okay.

515
00:16:50,625 --> 00:16:52,916
Like tell that story we talked about

516
00:16:52,916 --> 00:16:54,958
including people if the oceans grow a

517
00:16:54,958 --> 00:16:57,375
wire if the current stop if there's

518
00:16:57,375 --> 00:16:58,666
algaly blooms humans

519
00:16:58,666 --> 00:17:00,250
suffer and die. Okay.

520
00:17:00,791 --> 00:17:02,791
Tell that story. Think of all the cities

521
00:17:02,791 --> 00:17:04,375
in the US that are up against coasts.

522
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,708
Okay. Boston, New York. Yep.

523
00:17:08,166 --> 00:17:09,833
Philly, not so much Baltimore. We have

524
00:17:09,833 --> 00:17:12,166
the Bay DC. You have the river that goes

525
00:17:12,166 --> 00:17:14,583
to the Bay. Yeah, Jacksonville, Miami.

526
00:17:14,625 --> 00:17:17,666
Go around all the ones like all the major

527
00:17:17,666 --> 00:17:20,541
metro areas. Yeah, are along the coast.

528
00:17:21,166 --> 00:17:23,000
Okay, what do rich people like to do?

529
00:17:23,333 --> 00:17:25,041
They like boats. Okay, they like

530
00:17:25,041 --> 00:17:27,250
sailboats. Okay, they like to be out

531
00:17:27,250 --> 00:17:28,625
there. They like to paddleboard. They

532
00:17:28,625 --> 00:17:30,541
like you know, they like all this stuff

533
00:17:30,541 --> 00:17:32,208
and they're doing it where you guys are

534
00:17:32,208 --> 00:17:33,500
doing your work and your

535
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:34,583
research and your studies.

536
00:17:34,625 --> 00:17:38,500
Tap into that. Okay, you like being out

537
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:40,541
here. You like taking a kayak ride in the

538
00:17:40,541 --> 00:17:42,291
morning and a pot of dolphins comes by.

539
00:17:42,708 --> 00:17:44,833
Great. If we're not successful at saving

540
00:17:44,833 --> 00:17:47,291
the ocean. No more great morning kayak

541
00:17:47,291 --> 00:17:48,791
paddles, you know, with the dolphin.

542
00:17:49,125 --> 00:17:50,166
Yeah, yeah, you're gonna be doing in

543
00:17:50,166 --> 00:17:52,750
stinky water rather than dolphins and

544
00:17:52,750 --> 00:17:54,333
clear water. Yeah, yeah.

545
00:17:55,083 --> 00:17:58,000
These in Americans are

546
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,583
monumentally generous. Okay.

547
00:18:00,625 --> 00:18:04,625
Getting a group of people who care about

548
00:18:04,625 --> 00:18:06,625
your work and motivating them with

549
00:18:06,625 --> 00:18:09,291
stories and enticing them to help save

550
00:18:09,291 --> 00:18:11,041
and protect the things that they love.

551
00:18:11,791 --> 00:18:14,250
That's great. And use the foundations for

552
00:18:14,250 --> 00:18:17,833
your your rigorous science peer reviewed,

553
00:18:17,833 --> 00:18:20,125
you know, right? Yeah, you know, research

554
00:18:20,125 --> 00:18:22,250
that you're doing and use the individuals

555
00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:24,708
for your general operating dollars, where

556
00:18:24,708 --> 00:18:26,291
you can do whatever you need to do to get

557
00:18:26,291 --> 00:18:27,583
the job done with it.

558
00:18:27,625 --> 00:18:30,125
That this is great. And it sounds

559
00:18:30,125 --> 00:18:32,125
awesome. But how do you get in the same

560
00:18:32,125 --> 00:18:33,875
room as some of these people? Because

561
00:18:33,875 --> 00:18:35,291
they're probably in different circles.

562
00:18:35,291 --> 00:18:37,500
And many of us, how do you make that

563
00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:40,250
initial contact to these individuals who

564
00:18:40,250 --> 00:18:42,375
care about the ocean stuff again? Are you

565
00:18:42,375 --> 00:18:44,000
kayaking beside them one morning, you

566
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,000
know, as they're doing their morning

567
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,250
kayaks and be like, Hey, hey, like, hey,

568
00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:48,541
do you want to give me some money? Like,

569
00:18:48,541 --> 00:18:50,500
how do you make that initial contact? So

570
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:52,166
I think a few different things. Okay, so

571
00:18:52,166 --> 00:18:54,291
I love paddleboarding, paddleboarding and

572
00:18:54,291 --> 00:18:56,083
kayaking in the ocean. Okay, for sure.

573
00:18:56,625 --> 00:18:58,875
And there's places you have to go to get

574
00:18:58,875 --> 00:19:00,333
the stuff. Yeah, you don't own your

575
00:19:00,333 --> 00:19:03,125
stuff. Before I had kids, I love sailing.

576
00:19:03,458 --> 00:19:05,041
Okay, but I didn't own a boat. So I

577
00:19:05,041 --> 00:19:07,958
joined a nonprofit that like once you got

578
00:19:07,958 --> 00:19:09,458
your right certifications, you could take

579
00:19:09,458 --> 00:19:12,041
their boats and sail on the ocean. They

580
00:19:12,041 --> 00:19:13,833
would host events on the things that were

581
00:19:13,833 --> 00:19:15,375
happening in the ocean, like above and

582
00:19:15,375 --> 00:19:17,333
below the seas, like stuff like that.

583
00:19:17,541 --> 00:19:19,750
Right. Yeah, those places where the

584
00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:20,708
people who are enjoying

585
00:19:20,708 --> 00:19:22,000
the space already are.

586
00:19:22,916 --> 00:19:24,625
And after you can partner together and

587
00:19:24,625 --> 00:19:26,291
throw an event and you can, you know,

588
00:19:26,291 --> 00:19:29,250
educate their audience on something. This

589
00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:31,625
is going to sound absolutely ridiculous.

590
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,916
Yacht clubs. Yeah, yacht clubs. Okay, we

591
00:19:36,916 --> 00:19:39,458
have served a environmental nonprofit on

592
00:19:39,458 --> 00:19:42,333
Nantucket. Okay. They weren't doing tons

593
00:19:42,333 --> 00:19:43,208
of ocean work. It was

594
00:19:43,208 --> 00:19:45,500
more land stuff and erosion.

595
00:19:45,625 --> 00:19:48,833
They partnered with yacht clubs. Okay,

596
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:51,416
because the people love being outside.

597
00:19:52,416 --> 00:19:53,750
And they were able to host cocktail

598
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:55,458
parties and events and they got tons of

599
00:19:55,458 --> 00:19:59,000
major donors that way. So finding where

600
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,083
people are already gathered providing

601
00:20:01,083 --> 00:20:03,875
great content that a generalist can

602
00:20:03,875 --> 00:20:05,250
understand. Okay, remember, you're not

603
00:20:05,250 --> 00:20:06,333
talking to other scientists.

604
00:20:06,625 --> 00:20:08,791
Yes, let me say it again. You're not

605
00:20:08,791 --> 00:20:11,166
talking to other scientists. So like, if

606
00:20:11,166 --> 00:20:13,833
you have like 100 feet down, you can go

607
00:20:13,833 --> 00:20:16,000
go down 10 feet. Okay, literally, are you

608
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,541
gonna share and tell this story and what

609
00:20:19,541 --> 00:20:21,041
you're doing and invite them to be part

610
00:20:21,041 --> 00:20:23,333
of it. And then if there's something they

611
00:20:23,333 --> 00:20:25,375
can actually do if you can take them on

612
00:20:25,375 --> 00:20:27,875
some excursion, whether it's a cleaning

613
00:20:27,875 --> 00:20:29,666
the shores, whether it's snorkeling,

614
00:20:29,666 --> 00:20:31,083
whether it's diving, something that you

615
00:20:31,083 --> 00:20:32,041
can do with them where

616
00:20:32,041 --> 00:20:33,333
they can actually go see it.

617
00:20:34,250 --> 00:20:36,208
Oh, my goodness. And then you say, Hey,

618
00:20:36,208 --> 00:20:39,125
Andrew, can you and I go to coffee and we

619
00:20:39,125 --> 00:20:40,583
can talk about how you and your family

620
00:20:40,583 --> 00:20:42,541
can be part of this really important work

621
00:20:42,541 --> 00:20:45,083
that we're doing. Yeah. And it's code for

622
00:20:45,083 --> 00:20:46,375
hey, they're gonna ask you for money and

623
00:20:46,375 --> 00:20:47,708
they know exactly what you're gonna do

624
00:20:47,708 --> 00:20:49,041
and they'll say yes or no. And if they

625
00:20:49,041 --> 00:20:52,791
say yes, you're teed up for now. And to

626
00:20:52,791 --> 00:20:54,166
be clear, you don't start with seven

627
00:20:54,166 --> 00:20:57,208
figures, you start with 2550 100 grand

628
00:20:57,208 --> 00:20:59,250
depending on the family and their wealth.

629
00:20:59,833 --> 00:21:01,041
But if you're finding them at these

630
00:21:01,041 --> 00:21:02,583
places where high net worth people go,

631
00:21:02,625 --> 00:21:05,083
then you know they have the money to

632
00:21:05,083 --> 00:21:08,125
spend on your organization. And when

633
00:21:08,125 --> 00:21:10,583
you're telling them the story, it's gotta

634
00:21:10,583 --> 00:21:14,500
resonate with them. It's not just protect

635
00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:16,583
the ocean for other people to protect the

636
00:21:16,583 --> 00:21:18,541
ocean for them as well. Right? Yeah, they

637
00:21:18,541 --> 00:21:20,333
have to be the central character in the

638
00:21:20,333 --> 00:21:24,000
story, right? Yeah, they have to be I

639
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,166
mean, the hero in the story and the

640
00:21:26,166 --> 00:21:27,833
problems that you're solving, your

641
00:21:27,833 --> 00:21:30,000
organization is solving have to resonate

642
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:30,791
with the problems that

643
00:21:30,791 --> 00:21:31,583
these people face in their life.

644
00:21:32,625 --> 00:21:35,333
Okay, and then you can talk about how

645
00:21:35,333 --> 00:21:36,750
your organization can help them achieve

646
00:21:36,750 --> 00:21:40,333
those things. Interesting, interesting.

647
00:21:41,666 --> 00:21:45,333
Now, going back to even before people

648
00:21:45,333 --> 00:21:47,208
decide to do, I probably should have

649
00:21:47,208 --> 00:21:48,875
started this off with this, but before

650
00:21:48,875 --> 00:21:50,875
even like decided to do a nonprofit, like

651
00:21:50,875 --> 00:21:53,166
if if I were to start something and I

652
00:21:53,166 --> 00:21:54,958
want to do something for the ocean, how

653
00:21:54,958 --> 00:21:56,833
would I decide whether I want to do a for

654
00:21:56,833 --> 00:21:58,708
profit or a nonprofit because they're

655
00:21:58,708 --> 00:21:59,583
both businesses, they're they're managed differently.

656
00:21:59,625 --> 00:22:03,166
And if you get the charitable status with

657
00:22:03,166 --> 00:22:05,250
a nonprofit, you get that actual tax

658
00:22:05,250 --> 00:22:07,083
receipt or the ability to give a tax

659
00:22:07,083 --> 00:22:09,083
receipt, but it comes with a lot more

660
00:22:09,083 --> 00:22:11,708
administrative work and things like that.

661
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:15,000
What what decision making goes into play

662
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,791
when you're deciding for profit or

663
00:22:16,791 --> 00:22:20,083
nonprofit? I think there's a few. Number

664
00:22:20,083 --> 00:22:22,500
one, do you have something saleable?

665
00:22:23,416 --> 00:22:25,875
Okay, is your research is your

666
00:22:25,875 --> 00:22:27,583
organization going to create something a good or a service? It could be a good service.

667
00:22:27,625 --> 00:22:31,375
It could be either that people will

668
00:22:31,375 --> 00:22:34,833
actually pay money for. If the answer to

669
00:22:34,833 --> 00:22:36,833
that is no, then you clearly have to go

670
00:22:36,833 --> 00:22:39,416
down the nonprofit route. Okay. Right,

671
00:22:39,416 --> 00:22:41,250
right. So I think that's kind of decision

672
00:22:41,250 --> 00:22:43,625
point number one, is there a good or a

673
00:22:43,625 --> 00:22:46,833
service good or service that we can take

674
00:22:46,833 --> 00:22:48,208
to market that people will

675
00:22:48,208 --> 00:22:51,291
pay us for? Okay, easy enough.

676
00:22:51,833 --> 00:22:54,333
But that doesn't mean you have to go to

677
00:22:54,333 --> 00:22:56,625
non to for profit, you can have a good or

678
00:22:56,625 --> 00:22:59,041
service that you convert to to nonprofit,

679
00:22:59,375 --> 00:23:01,958
that's totally fine. Yeah. But if you

680
00:23:01,958 --> 00:23:03,500
don't have that, then you're definitely

681
00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:05,875
in the nonprofit space. Okay. And if you

682
00:23:05,875 --> 00:23:07,083
do have that, you can keep kind of

683
00:23:07,083 --> 00:23:09,166
deciding between the two nonprofit,

684
00:23:09,458 --> 00:23:10,791
obviously, you're not paying taxes,

685
00:23:11,041 --> 00:23:12,958
federal taxes, state taxes on the money

686
00:23:12,958 --> 00:23:15,041
that you're bringing in. Okay. But

687
00:23:15,041 --> 00:23:19,166
there's no monetary value that is created

688
00:23:19,166 --> 00:23:20,000
outside of salaries.

689
00:23:20,625 --> 00:23:22,083
There's no shareholders in a nonprofit.

690
00:23:22,583 --> 00:23:24,541
There's no ownership of a nonprofit.

691
00:23:25,250 --> 00:23:26,750
Okay, okay, so if you have a good or

692
00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:28,041
service that you think it's going to be

693
00:23:28,041 --> 00:23:31,500
the next thing and whatever. Think long

694
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:33,375
and hard about before creating a

695
00:23:33,375 --> 00:23:36,208
nonprofit. Okay. The other thing people

696
00:23:36,208 --> 00:23:38,083
have to realize about nonprofits is

697
00:23:38,083 --> 00:23:39,625
there's a ton of federal regulation

698
00:23:39,625 --> 00:23:41,583
around it. You have to submit what's

699
00:23:41,583 --> 00:23:43,583
called a 990 form every single year.

700
00:23:43,625 --> 00:23:45,375
Yeah, that's publicly available. You have

701
00:23:45,375 --> 00:23:47,333
to do an audit every single year, you

702
00:23:47,333 --> 00:23:49,208
have to have a board. A for profit

703
00:23:49,208 --> 00:23:50,916
doesn't need to have a board if it's

704
00:23:50,916 --> 00:23:52,375
small, right and not publicly traded.

705
00:23:52,375 --> 00:23:54,750
Okay, you don't have to. So there's a lot

706
00:23:54,750 --> 00:23:57,666
of like a hoops you have to jump through

707
00:23:57,666 --> 00:24:00,208
down the nonprofit route. But if there's

708
00:24:00,208 --> 00:24:04,166
not a way to tangibly make money and you

709
00:24:04,166 --> 00:24:07,125
need to go raise it, then kind of the

710
00:24:07,125 --> 00:24:09,958
nonprofit is the route for you for sure.

711
00:24:10,625 --> 00:24:12,958
Most science is in some way kind of

712
00:24:12,958 --> 00:24:15,708
connected to nonprofit work universities,

713
00:24:16,166 --> 00:24:19,541
academia, unless you're connected to like

714
00:24:19,541 --> 00:24:22,458
tech biotech, that kind of stuff. Okay,

715
00:24:22,541 --> 00:24:26,708
okay, interesting. So going back to the

716
00:24:26,708 --> 00:24:29,291
fundraising, you know, what separates

717
00:24:29,291 --> 00:24:31,958
nonprofits that consistently raise money

718
00:24:31,958 --> 00:24:34,875
from those that struggle? Yeah, most

719
00:24:34,875 --> 00:24:36,833
people don't realize this there are 1.5

720
00:24:36,833 --> 00:24:38,583
million nonprofits in the United States.

721
00:24:39,625 --> 00:24:41,500
Right. A lot of nonprofits. That's a lot.

722
00:24:41,916 --> 00:24:44,083
That's a lot. Only two probably growing,

723
00:24:44,083 --> 00:24:46,208
I assume in growing every year. Okay.

724
00:24:47,708 --> 00:24:51,041
Only 2% of them will ever break a million

725
00:24:51,041 --> 00:24:54,333
dollars in annual revenue. Just 2%. And

726
00:24:54,333 --> 00:24:58,375
only point 4% point four will ever break

727
00:24:58,375 --> 00:25:00,375
10 million in annual revenue. Okay,

728
00:25:00,666 --> 00:25:02,583
right. There's a lot of nonprofits out

729
00:25:02,583 --> 00:25:04,583
there that are really bad at fundraising.

730
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:09,291
Yeah, okay. I can see that. So to not

731
00:25:09,291 --> 00:25:11,250
just have fits and starts, you have to be

732
00:25:11,250 --> 00:25:13,833
exceptionally committed to every day

733
00:25:13,833 --> 00:25:16,375
putting your hand to the tiller and

734
00:25:16,375 --> 00:25:18,250
actually making progress on it. And it's

735
00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:20,166
not easy. Okay, it's not if it was easy,

736
00:25:20,166 --> 00:25:21,625
everybody will be above, you know, a

737
00:25:21,625 --> 00:25:22,875
million, everybody will be above 10

738
00:25:22,875 --> 00:25:24,916
million, you have to be out there every

739
00:25:24,916 --> 00:25:27,250
day, you cannot, cannot, cannot stop.

740
00:25:27,625 --> 00:25:29,416
You cannot stop networking, you can't

741
00:25:29,416 --> 00:25:31,125
stop building relationships, you can't

742
00:25:31,125 --> 00:25:34,041
start stop storytelling. Hutzpah, I

743
00:25:34,041 --> 00:25:35,583
guess, you know, my Jersey roots are

744
00:25:35,583 --> 00:25:39,041
coming out. It's like the number one

745
00:25:39,041 --> 00:25:42,166
thing, okay, that will separate an

746
00:25:42,166 --> 00:25:45,458
organization that consistently fundraises

747
00:25:45,458 --> 00:25:47,750
well from one that doesn't that they're

748
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:50,125
just grinding at it every day. Right.

749
00:25:50,750 --> 00:25:52,875
That's number one. Number two, and we've

750
00:25:52,875 --> 00:25:54,500
already talked about this is is your

751
00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:55,500
message is your brand

752
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:56,541
is your story. Yeah.

753
00:25:57,083 --> 00:26:00,000
And this if you this is true in the for

754
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,916
profit space as well. The best product

755
00:26:01,916 --> 00:26:04,833
does not win. Right? It's simplest

756
00:26:04,833 --> 00:26:09,291
product wins. Mm hmm. Okay. Apple, I'll

757
00:26:09,291 --> 00:26:10,500
probably offend the people is not the

758
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:12,833
best computer out there, a Mac, but it's

759
00:26:12,833 --> 00:26:14,500
the simplest computer, you know, out

760
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:16,041
there. So it wins and we've got a mass

761
00:26:16,041 --> 00:26:19,791
market appeal. Okay. Being very simple

762
00:26:19,791 --> 00:26:20,583
and how you communicate.

763
00:26:21,625 --> 00:26:25,416
We receive 10,000 marketing messages a

764
00:26:25,416 --> 00:26:30,125
day, as humans living in 2026 10,000. If

765
00:26:30,125 --> 00:26:32,166
your message is not simple, it will just

766
00:26:33,625 --> 00:26:36,833
be put on the wayside. Okay. Yeah. So

767
00:26:36,833 --> 00:26:40,083
chutzpah be at it. Simple, simple, simple

768
00:26:40,083 --> 00:26:42,791
message. And number three, paint the

769
00:26:42,791 --> 00:26:45,041
pier, the clear picture of what you're

770
00:26:45,041 --> 00:26:45,583
trying to do in the world.

771
00:26:46,625 --> 00:26:49,250
It's just like the ocean, right? If it's

772
00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:50,916
muddy and gross, no one's gonna want to

773
00:26:50,916 --> 00:26:52,458
dive. No one's gonna want to snorkel in

774
00:26:52,458 --> 00:26:55,750
it. Okay. If your vision for the world

775
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:57,125
that you're trying to create the work

776
00:26:57,125 --> 00:26:58,666
that you're trying to do the organization

777
00:26:58,666 --> 00:27:00,666
you're trying to build is muddy and

778
00:27:00,666 --> 00:27:02,000
murky. No one's gonna want to jump in

779
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,500
that water. Okay. So paint that clear

780
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:06,916
picture and always be

781
00:27:06,916 --> 00:27:08,583
inviting people to help you build it.

782
00:27:08,625 --> 00:27:12,916
Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting too,

783
00:27:12,916 --> 00:27:15,791
because like that's it's great advice. I

784
00:27:15,791 --> 00:27:17,458
love the advice because I think this is

785
00:27:17,458 --> 00:27:20,250
the stuff that works, especially that

786
00:27:20,250 --> 00:27:23,250
first one. And it's getting out there and

787
00:27:23,250 --> 00:27:25,625
talking about your organization, talking

788
00:27:25,625 --> 00:27:26,583
about what you're doing. So it all

789
00:27:26,583 --> 00:27:28,250
envelops everything you've said, but you

790
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:28,583
have to get out there.

791
00:27:28,625 --> 00:27:31,500
That takes a lot of time and practice, of

792
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:32,833
course, that comes along with with

793
00:27:32,833 --> 00:27:34,916
experience. When you have a nonprofit

794
00:27:34,916 --> 00:27:36,583
like that, and you're always, you're

795
00:27:36,583 --> 00:27:38,750
going out and you're always looking for,

796
00:27:38,750 --> 00:27:41,708
you know, donors and you're talking to

797
00:27:41,708 --> 00:27:43,333
you about your message to everybody.

798
00:27:43,625 --> 00:27:45,541
You still have to do the work while

799
00:27:45,541 --> 00:27:47,375
you're doing that. So, you know, like

800
00:27:47,375 --> 00:27:50,416
when you have this nonprofit, you have

801
00:27:50,416 --> 00:27:53,000
someone, whether it's a you as this as

802
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,166
the, the executive director or someone as

803
00:27:58,166 --> 00:28:01,500
a growth fundraising specialist, someone

804
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:02,791
has to be out there all the time, but

805
00:28:02,791 --> 00:28:04,583
that requires like more than one person.

806
00:28:04,625 --> 00:28:07,541
So how big like should the minimum amount

807
00:28:07,541 --> 00:28:09,416
be for a nonprofit? Like it shouldn't

808
00:28:09,416 --> 00:28:11,166
necessarily you'll have a board, but the

809
00:28:11,166 --> 00:28:13,083
core staff, is it just one person? Is it

810
00:28:13,083 --> 00:28:14,875
two people? Like the one person would

811
00:28:14,875 --> 00:28:17,125
have to be like a really good hustler in

812
00:28:17,125 --> 00:28:19,041
terms of getting out there and going out

813
00:28:19,041 --> 00:28:19,833
there and then doing the

814
00:28:19,833 --> 00:28:20,583
work when they come back.

815
00:28:20,625 --> 00:28:23,416
So it would probably take longer to grow.

816
00:28:23,416 --> 00:28:24,791
But like, what would you recommend if

817
00:28:24,791 --> 00:28:26,375
someone if I were to start something

818
00:28:26,375 --> 00:28:29,958
right now in the US? What I'm not, I'm

819
00:28:29,958 --> 00:28:31,333
not American, I'm Canadian, but like say

820
00:28:31,333 --> 00:28:33,166
someone in America comes in and says,

821
00:28:33,166 --> 00:28:35,458
hey, like, I want to start a nonprofit.

822
00:28:36,291 --> 00:28:37,208
What would you recommend? Like, how many

823
00:28:37,208 --> 00:28:38,583
people would you recommend they start off

824
00:28:38,583 --> 00:28:39,583
with? And what would their roles be?

825
00:28:39,625 --> 00:28:41,958
I don't want to answer Andrew, how many

826
00:28:41,958 --> 00:28:44,333
people but I want to posit the idea of

827
00:28:44,333 --> 00:28:47,041
like a percentage of your budget. Okay. I

828
00:28:47,041 --> 00:28:49,166
find that most nonprofits that are

829
00:28:49,166 --> 00:28:52,000
growing usually spend between 18 and 25%

830
00:28:52,416 --> 00:28:54,750
of their revenues on their their

831
00:28:54,750 --> 00:28:55,916
fundraising marketing

832
00:28:55,916 --> 00:28:56,916
communications work.

833
00:28:57,125 --> 00:28:59,083
Okay. And that makes sense, right? If for

834
00:28:59,083 --> 00:29:00,583
profit does the same thing, you have to

835
00:29:00,583 --> 00:29:02,916
invest into your revenue engine. If you

836
00:29:02,916 --> 00:29:04,083
don't invest in sales, you

837
00:29:04,083 --> 00:29:05,583
don't make any sales. Okay.

838
00:29:05,625 --> 00:29:09,208
And so as you grow, you can be constantly

839
00:29:09,208 --> 00:29:11,375
reinvesting, you know, you grow an extra

840
00:29:11,375 --> 00:29:14,833
20%. You know, you always know that 20%

841
00:29:15,250 --> 00:29:17,458
25% of that's going back in to your

842
00:29:17,458 --> 00:29:18,541
fundraising, I find that's

843
00:29:18,541 --> 00:29:19,625
the healthier way to grow.

844
00:29:20,375 --> 00:29:21,958
When you're small, when you're sub a

845
00:29:21,958 --> 00:29:23,833
million dollars, you can only afford a

846
00:29:23,833 --> 00:29:25,791
handful of people and you all need to be

847
00:29:25,791 --> 00:29:26,500
doing fundraising.

848
00:29:27,083 --> 00:29:29,083
Once you get bigger, okay.

849
00:29:29,625 --> 00:29:31,875
That's when you start getting a lot of

850
00:29:31,875 --> 00:29:34,541
specialty roles, you hire a fundraising

851
00:29:34,541 --> 00:29:36,208
director or chief advancement officer,

852
00:29:36,208 --> 00:29:38,541
whatever you want to call it. But you

853
00:29:38,541 --> 00:29:40,458
kind of stage that journey over time. But

854
00:29:40,458 --> 00:29:41,875
the important thing is, okay.

855
00:29:42,666 --> 00:29:43,750
Because I imagine there's a lot of

856
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:45,291
listeners out there being like, Yes, I

857
00:29:45,291 --> 00:29:46,666
have to get to this number and then I

858
00:29:46,666 --> 00:29:48,291
hire somebody and get it off my desk.

859
00:29:49,458 --> 00:29:51,791
As the CEO or the executive director, you

860
00:29:51,791 --> 00:29:54,291
never get it off your desk, you will

861
00:29:54,291 --> 00:29:57,833
always be spending between 40 and 60% of

862
00:29:57,833 --> 00:30:00,416
your time on fundraising, marketing,

863
00:30:00,708 --> 00:30:02,750
business development, that is just the

864
00:30:02,750 --> 00:30:05,000
job. So I want you to be prepared for

865
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,041
that as you think about

866
00:30:06,041 --> 00:30:06,583
your growth journey ahead.

867
00:30:06,625 --> 00:30:09,000
So when we're looking at, you know,

868
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,708
obviously a nonprofit wants to have a

869
00:30:10,708 --> 00:30:14,416
specific impact on what they want to do,

870
00:30:14,416 --> 00:30:17,000
right? And so they have a mission, they

871
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,333
want to drive that mission, they want to

872
00:30:18,333 --> 00:30:21,333
have that impact. How do you scale that

873
00:30:21,333 --> 00:30:25,625
impact with and allow fundraising to help

874
00:30:25,625 --> 00:30:27,500
you scale that impact? And does that have

875
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:29,125
to go into the message that you're

876
00:30:29,125 --> 00:30:29,583
telling the fundraisers?

877
00:30:29,625 --> 00:30:33,458
Oh, my goodness, absolutely. Okay, if you

878
00:30:33,458 --> 00:30:35,125
want to clean up this watershed, yeah,

879
00:30:35,125 --> 00:30:36,208
let's just take that as an example. I

880
00:30:36,208 --> 00:30:37,333
know people are doing all kinds of

881
00:30:37,333 --> 00:30:38,458
different things when do the watershed

882
00:30:38,458 --> 00:30:40,666
cleanup, you have to let people know how

883
00:30:40,666 --> 00:30:42,416
much it's going to cost. Okay.

884
00:30:43,208 --> 00:30:45,000
If they give, let's just use round

885
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,666
numbers, a million dollars, and they

886
00:30:47,666 --> 00:30:48,875
think it's going to accomplish the

887
00:30:48,875 --> 00:30:50,750
watershed cleanup, but you know, it's

888
00:30:50,750 --> 00:30:52,875
going to cost $10 million to really do

889
00:30:52,875 --> 00:30:54,916
the watershed cleanup. Like you just

890
00:30:54,916 --> 00:30:57,500
created this massive misalignment between

891
00:30:57,500 --> 00:30:58,583
you and your giver, right?

892
00:30:58,625 --> 00:31:03,166
So you have to let them know how much

893
00:31:03,166 --> 00:31:04,875
things are actually going to cost as you

894
00:31:04,875 --> 00:31:07,625
scale impact now, okay, oceans are really

895
00:31:07,625 --> 00:31:10,583
big. And I imagine that a lot of

896
00:31:10,583 --> 00:31:12,000
projects, you're going to come back with

897
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,041
it's going to take a

898
00:31:13,041 --> 00:31:14,583
billion dollars to do this.

899
00:31:15,083 --> 00:31:17,625
Um, you have to do it in bite sized

900
00:31:17,625 --> 00:31:19,666
chunks for people, okay, they don't

901
00:31:19,666 --> 00:31:21,500
believe that you can actually do it.

902
00:31:22,416 --> 00:31:24,000
They're not going to get to it has to be

903
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,458
just audacious enough to whet their

904
00:31:26,458 --> 00:31:27,958
appetite for like big bold

905
00:31:27,958 --> 00:31:30,208
things, but not so audacious.

906
00:31:30,208 --> 00:31:31,333
They're like, I'm not gonna put my money

907
00:31:31,333 --> 00:31:32,750
to this because dudes never going to be

908
00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:34,958
able to figure it out. Okay, so it needs

909
00:31:34,958 --> 00:31:39,166
to like, I always tell people that they

910
00:31:39,166 --> 00:31:40,541
overestimate what they

911
00:31:40,541 --> 00:31:41,916
think they can do in a year.

912
00:31:42,625 --> 00:31:44,500
Okay. And they underestimate what they

913
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:47,000
can do in three years, right? Gotcha.

914
00:31:47,541 --> 00:31:49,416
Okay, so if you're trying to do a

915
00:31:49,416 --> 00:31:51,541
project, try to create a three to five

916
00:31:51,541 --> 00:31:53,916
year horizon on it and it can be big. And

917
00:31:53,916 --> 00:31:56,041
you can invite people into that over

918
00:31:56,041 --> 00:31:57,958
those, you know, three, four, five years.

919
00:31:58,625 --> 00:31:59,666
And if you're trying to do your $10

920
00:31:59,666 --> 00:32:02,416
million project in year one, and you've

921
00:32:02,416 --> 00:32:04,083
never done it before, chances are it's

922
00:32:04,083 --> 00:32:06,208
not going to go so well as people go

923
00:32:06,208 --> 00:32:08,500
through their different growth phases,

924
00:32:08,750 --> 00:32:10,625
whether it's, you know, startup, whether

925
00:32:10,625 --> 00:32:12,083
it's, you know, you've been in it for

926
00:32:12,083 --> 00:32:14,083
three to five years, whether it's 1020

927
00:32:14,083 --> 00:32:15,041
years down the road.

928
00:32:15,625 --> 00:32:17,333
At what point James is you as a

929
00:32:17,333 --> 00:32:19,875
consultant, what what point is it good to

930
00:32:19,875 --> 00:32:22,791
have someone like yourself to come in and

931
00:32:22,791 --> 00:32:25,375
sort of reassess everything do like a

932
00:32:25,375 --> 00:32:27,708
strategic audit or what have you

933
00:32:27,708 --> 00:32:29,916
basically hire a consultant to help you

934
00:32:29,916 --> 00:32:31,750
through to get to that next phase?

935
00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:34,458
Like, when is that time to have somebody?

936
00:32:34,458 --> 00:32:36,000
Is it better just to have somebody on

937
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,333
retainer? Like, how does it work?

938
00:32:38,833 --> 00:32:40,625
Yeah, that's a great question, Andrew.

939
00:32:40,625 --> 00:32:42,000
And the answer is kind of different for

940
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,875
everybody. There are some people that

941
00:32:43,875 --> 00:32:45,708
started nonprofit that just intuitively

942
00:32:45,708 --> 00:32:47,208
kind of get it. They know how to do the

943
00:32:47,208 --> 00:32:49,833
hustle. Okay. And I would say, hey, get

944
00:32:49,833 --> 00:32:53,416
to your million million plus point before

945
00:32:53,416 --> 00:32:54,791
you think about bringing somebody else

946
00:32:54,791 --> 00:32:55,916
in. Okay, just keep doing

947
00:32:55,916 --> 00:32:57,333
the good work if it's working.

948
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,458
Then I would say as you start to see your

949
00:33:00,458 --> 00:33:02,333
revenue line plateau a little bit, it's

950
00:33:02,333 --> 00:33:04,291
not going up into the right as much as it

951
00:33:04,291 --> 00:33:06,875
was before. I think that's the time to

952
00:33:06,875 --> 00:33:09,791
kind of call somebody in to get to get to

953
00:33:09,791 --> 00:33:12,000
health check. We provide a service called

954
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,541
a strategic fundraising accelerator.

955
00:33:13,625 --> 00:33:17,750
It's an eight week kind of pressure test,

956
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:19,333
if you will, to see how you're doing. And

957
00:33:19,333 --> 00:33:21,125
we make three to five recommendations to

958
00:33:21,125 --> 00:33:23,500
get you to the next level. Okay, I like

959
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:25,416
that for smaller organizations because

960
00:33:25,416 --> 00:33:27,875
it's time bound. It's not retainer work.

961
00:33:28,208 --> 00:33:29,875
But anytime you kind of hit a plateau,

962
00:33:29,875 --> 00:33:31,500
you're going to want to do some some kind

963
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:33,041
of deep soul searching to figure out,

964
00:33:33,041 --> 00:33:35,416
okay, what got me here isn't going to get

965
00:33:35,416 --> 00:33:36,500
me to the next level. So

966
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:37,583
let's let's figure out that is.

967
00:33:37,625 --> 00:33:40,833
Then I would say once you get to the like

968
00:33:40,833 --> 00:33:43,000
345 million dollar level, that's when you

969
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,041
really start to say, okay, we need to

970
00:33:45,041 --> 00:33:47,000
start bringing in different expertise, we

971
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,625
need a foundation person, probably a

972
00:33:49,625 --> 00:33:51,416
government relations person, you know,

973
00:33:51,416 --> 00:33:53,791
depending on what you do, a major gift

974
00:33:53,791 --> 00:33:55,666
officer, a mid level gift officer, an

975
00:33:55,666 --> 00:33:57,583
annual fund monthly giving, that's when

976
00:33:57,583 --> 00:33:59,666
you start to get into retainer space,

977
00:34:00,333 --> 00:34:01,666
where you can bring a group like ours in,

978
00:34:01,916 --> 00:34:03,208
there's lots of good groups out there,

979
00:34:03,208 --> 00:34:05,583
it's not just ours, and say, hey, like,

980
00:34:05,583 --> 00:34:06,583
we really need someone to build the machine.

981
00:34:06,625 --> 00:34:10,041
For us to get this really going.

982
00:34:11,916 --> 00:34:13,666
Because that journey from a million

983
00:34:13,666 --> 00:34:16,458
dollars is hard, but the next, you know,

984
00:34:16,458 --> 00:34:18,791
threshold at 10 million is much harder.

985
00:34:19,208 --> 00:34:19,916
And that's where you really

986
00:34:19,916 --> 00:34:21,083
need to bring in some expertise.

987
00:34:21,708 --> 00:34:23,208
That's amazing. That's amazing. I did

988
00:34:23,208 --> 00:34:24,958
catch most of that. I didn't get the last

989
00:34:24,958 --> 00:34:26,750
part. But that all James, that was that

990
00:34:26,750 --> 00:34:29,750
was awesome. It I really do appreciate as

991
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:31,333
we recorded this, we had some difficulty

992
00:34:31,333 --> 00:34:31,583
with with connection, but I do appreciate you coming on the podcast, giving people advice.

993
00:34:31,625 --> 00:34:38,250
I think it's something that we don't get

994
00:34:38,250 --> 00:34:41,291
a lot as in this, in this sort of space

995
00:34:41,291 --> 00:34:43,541
in in in this kind of field of ocean

996
00:34:43,541 --> 00:34:45,458
conservation and science. And you know, I

997
00:34:45,458 --> 00:34:47,250
really do appreciate you coming on the

998
00:34:47,250 --> 00:34:49,666
podcast and kind of giving it to a lot of

999
00:34:49,666 --> 00:34:51,000
people giving the advice to a lot of

1000
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,208
people who are just starting out or

1001
00:34:53,208 --> 00:34:55,166
who've had an organization for a while,

1002
00:34:55,541 --> 00:34:56,750
you know, may have gone through a lull

1003
00:34:56,750 --> 00:34:58,458
and trying to figure out fundraising,

1004
00:34:58,458 --> 00:35:01,041
maybe just got, you know, comfortable

1005
00:35:01,041 --> 00:35:01,583
with maybe a little bit of a

1006
00:35:10,541 --> 00:35:11,041
conversation. And you know, you know, you

1007
00:35:11,041 --> 00:35:12,875
can get ahold of us, you can get ahold of

1008
00:35:12,875 --> 00:35:13,458
us, you can get ahold of me on LinkedIn,

1009
00:35:13,458 --> 00:35:14,416
okay? I'm on LinkedIn every day, I

1010
00:35:14,416 --> 00:35:16,250
respond to all the messages myself. So

1011
00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:17,583
follow me on LinkedIn.

1012
00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:30,875
Visit our website, the keypost group.com

1013
00:35:30,875 --> 00:35:33,875
k i p o s the keypost group.com. You can

1014
00:35:33,875 --> 00:35:34,583
schedule a meeting right there. And we have a podcast called on the ground where every week we interview a nonprofit leader who's on the ground actually doing the work about their fundraising journey. Learn from them provide some help if we can.

1015
00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:49,250
And it's a great way to get to see what

1016
00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:51,708
different peers are doing in different

1017
00:35:51,708 --> 00:35:53,583
spaces and I would say probably a third of them are environmental or conservation organization. So three ways to get a hold of us LinkedIn website and the podcast. Well, James, I want to thank you so much for joining me on today's episode. It's been a real pleasure.

1018
00:36:03,791 --> 00:36:07,750
To have you on the podcast. I'll put all

1019
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:10,416
your your contact information below so

1020
00:36:10,416 --> 00:36:12,125
people can get ahold of you. And we

1021
00:36:12,125 --> 00:36:13,583
really do appreciate what you do not only for the oceans, but for all the nonprofits that you help your your scaling your impact in an immense way. We appreciate what you do. So thank you so much. Awesome. Thanks for having me here.

1022
00:36:20,666 --> 00:36:25,541
Thank you James for joining us on today's

1023
00:36:25,541 --> 00:36:27,000
episode of the how to protect the ocean

1024
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,041
podcast. It was great to have you on. I

1025
00:36:29,041 --> 00:36:31,666
love the fact that we had actual

1026
00:36:31,666 --> 00:36:34,583
actionable tips to be able to do better for our nonprofit organization. I've had the opportunity for the last few weeks to get on, you know, online with some people talk to them about how to protect the ocean.

1027
00:36:34,625 --> 00:36:39,041
I've had the opportunity for the last few

1028
00:36:39,041 --> 00:36:42,416
weeks to get on, you know, online with

1029
00:36:42,416 --> 00:36:44,666
some people talk to them about their

1030
00:36:44,666 --> 00:36:46,458
ocean conservation through Pisces oceans,

1031
00:36:46,666 --> 00:36:48,583
the company that I work for now and as the ocean communications manager. And we know we've talked a lot to organizations who have struggled in finding funding and tapping in because they don't have a lot of resources.

1032
00:36:59,541 --> 00:37:01,750
Their people are working hard at a lot of

1033
00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:04,625
tasks and their communication is not as

1034
00:37:04,625 --> 00:37:06,291
good as they want it to be and it can be

1035
00:37:06,291 --> 00:37:09,208
better. And so sometimes having that

1036
00:37:09,208 --> 00:37:09,583
ability to kind of take a step back and have someone else look in and give some tips because you're stuck, not stuck, but you're
used to the routines that you're used to. And it makes it easier to have a lot of people working hard on the task.

1037
00:37:18,208 --> 00:37:21,041
So I highly recommend that you give a set

1038
00:37:21,041 --> 00:37:23,500
of shout out to James if you are

1039
00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:26,791
interested in improving the efficiency of

1040
00:37:26,791 --> 00:37:27,583
how you can run your organization and making sure that you get the right donors as well as the people who are doing the work that you are doing.

1041
00:37:27,625 --> 00:37:29,458
as well. So I highly recommend that you

1042
00:37:29,458 --> 00:37:30,833
give a shout out to

1043
00:37:30,833 --> 00:37:32,750
James if you are interested

1044
00:37:32,958 --> 00:37:35,916
in improving the efficiency of how you

1045
00:37:35,916 --> 00:37:36,333
can run your

1046
00:37:36,333 --> 00:37:37,625
organization and making sure that

1047
00:37:37,625 --> 00:37:39,625
you get the right donors as well as

1048
00:37:39,625 --> 00:37:40,708
making sure that your

1049
00:37:40,708 --> 00:37:42,208
communication strategy is on

1050
00:37:42,208 --> 00:37:44,416
point through that. And of course, if you

1051
00:37:44,416 --> 00:37:45,208
always want, if you

1052
00:37:45,208 --> 00:37:46,583
ever want to check out

1053
00:37:46,583 --> 00:37:49,166
strategy through my company, Pisces

1054
00:37:49,166 --> 00:37:50,083
oceans, not my company,

1055
00:37:50,083 --> 00:37:51,625
the company I work for, you

1056
00:37:51,625 --> 00:37:54,166
can do so. I'll leave the link in the

1057
00:37:54,166 --> 00:37:54,833
show notes. And also

1058
00:37:54,833 --> 00:37:56,500
James's links will be in the

1059
00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:59,041
show notes as well. Look, James, you were

1060
00:37:59,041 --> 00:38:00,708
amazing. I can't wait to have you back to

1061
00:38:00,708 --> 00:38:02,500
talk more strategies to build up

1062
00:38:02,625 --> 00:38:04,666
nonprofit organizations. And if anybody

1063
00:38:04,666 --> 00:38:06,958
has any questions or comments, please let

1064
00:38:06,958 --> 00:38:07,833
me know all this. My

1065
00:38:07,833 --> 00:38:10,416
socials are in the show notes.

1066
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:12,750
You can just DM me there. And of course,

1067
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,958
don't forget to follow this episode. If

1068
00:38:14,958 --> 00:38:16,000
you're new here or you

1069
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,000
haven't followed it yet,

1070
00:38:17,541 --> 00:38:19,291
please follow it. It helps us get up the

1071
00:38:19,291 --> 00:38:21,666
charts so that other people can discover

1072
00:38:21,666 --> 00:38:22,791
the podcast. And I

1073
00:38:22,791 --> 00:38:23,375
think that's the biggest

1074
00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:25,291
thing for me. I don't necessarily want to

1075
00:38:25,291 --> 00:38:27,458
grow the episode or the podcast a certain

1076
00:38:27,458 --> 00:38:29,458
way. I really like the community that we

1077
00:38:29,458 --> 00:38:31,250
have. But I want if people are out there

1078
00:38:31,250 --> 00:38:32,625
looking for a resource for ocean

1079
00:38:32,625 --> 00:38:34,500
conservation, I want them to be able to

1080
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:36,166
find this podcast because I feel like,

1081
00:38:36,166 --> 00:38:38,125
you know, there's value in this podcast

1082
00:38:38,125 --> 00:38:40,500
for them. As you are listening to this,

1083
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:42,708
you know, as many times as you do on that

1084
00:38:42,708 --> 00:38:44,500
week. And of course, don't forget you can

1085
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:46,625
always contact me just to say, hey,

1086
00:38:46,625 --> 00:38:48,083
Andrew, I really love the episode or I

1087
00:38:48,083 --> 00:38:49,666
love the podcast. I always like to hear

1088
00:38:49,666 --> 00:38:51,708
that. It boosts my confidence, which

1089
00:38:51,708 --> 00:38:53,166
really helps me because I work hard on

1090
00:38:53,166 --> 00:38:53,500
this. And I think that's what the most important thing is. And so the next step is to really make
sure that you have a good time. And I hope you guys enjoy it and I'll see you next week.

1091
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:55,333
I always love to hear people's thoughts,

1092
00:38:55,333 --> 00:38:56,041
how you listen to the

1093
00:38:56,041 --> 00:38:57,416
podcast, like what apps you use,

1094
00:38:57,625 --> 00:38:59,000
also like what you like about it,

1095
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,333
what you'd like to hear on

1096
00:39:00,333 --> 00:39:01,500
the podcast in the future.

1097
00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:03,083
So don't forget to hit me up.

1098
00:39:03,083 --> 00:39:05,166
I'm always willing to chat with people.

1099
00:39:05,458 --> 00:39:06,083
And I wanna thank you

1100
00:39:06,083 --> 00:39:06,916
so much for joining me

1101
00:39:06,916 --> 00:39:08,375
on today's episode of the How

1102
00:39:08,375 --> 00:39:09,583
to Protect the Ocean podcast.

1103
00:39:10,166 --> 00:39:11,000
Join me next week when

1104
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,208
we talk about Forage Fish

1105
00:39:12,208 --> 00:39:13,541
and we talk to Jack

1106
00:39:13,541 --> 00:39:14,666
Daly from Oceana, Canada

1107
00:39:14,958 --> 00:39:15,875
about a new report that

1108
00:39:15,875 --> 00:39:17,333
they put out on Forage Fish.

1109
00:39:17,333 --> 00:39:17,958
It's not great,

1110
00:39:17,958 --> 00:39:19,041
you're gonna wanna hear why

1111
00:39:19,500 --> 00:39:20,500
and we're gonna wanna

1112
00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:21,916
hear how we can fix it

1113
00:39:21,916 --> 00:39:22,958
and we can fix it fast.

1114
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,416
So thank you so much for joining us.

1115
00:39:24,416 --> 00:39:25,208
Have a great weekend

1116
00:39:25,208 --> 00:39:26,208
and happy conservation.